From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20466 invoked from network); 31 Dec 2001 23:06:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Dec 2001 23:06:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: (qmail 20210 invoked from network); 31 Dec 2001 23:06:48 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Dec 2001 23:06:48 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LBUp-0000bJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2001 23:05:31 +0000 Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.101]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LBUo-0000b7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2001 23:05:30 +0000 Received: from southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.208]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA239670 for ; Mon, 31 Dec 2001 18:01:10 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss10.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.76]) by southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id fBVN2ec163708 for ; Mon, 31 Dec 2001 18:02:40 -0500 Message-ID: <3C30EE8A.4F52F6E3@usa.net> Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 00:02:34 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: waste References: <200112311645.fBVGjQ808427@smtp.wanadoo.nl> <3C30A142.B2B4697F@usa.net> <3C30FF2F.67247280@ns.sympatico.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: john currie wrote: > Hi Alberto, It's not just nostalgia. I, for example favor > dfcw, because it is superior to cw because the dash length is shortened > to be the same as the dot length. > [...] Hi John, certainly DFCW is superior to straight CW for the reasons you mention. About 7FSK, I said that I consider it not optimal, and, if decoded visually, I agree that it can be confusing and not adding much value. But the key stands in 'if decoded visually'. The greatest advantages of m-ary FSK and PSK can be obtained when the decision is done algorithmically, without subjective judgements. And, in addition, more robust coding schemes could be adopted. But, in spite of this, I see favourably the introduction of this mode, provided that some frequency discipline is adopted (an easy task), as it marks the rescission of the umbilical cord with CW, at least for weak-signal operations, where CW is not up to the task. For leisure QSOs, CW will reign for many, many years to come, I am sure. 73 es HNY Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21801 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2002 22:39:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Jan 2002 22:39:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 19070 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2002 22:39:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Jan 2002 22:39:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16WPpF-00017T-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 22:37:01 +0000 Received: from lycee.ns.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16WPpD-00017O-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 22:36:59 +0000 Received: from erica (tnt-3-253.easynet.co.uk [195.40.202.253]) by lycee.ns.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B7B11A2F3 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 22:36:01 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000401c1aaa8$325455e0$fdca28c3@erica> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20020130114238.31479a9a@pb623250.kuleuven.be> Subject: Re: LF: Tesla Coil as an antenna Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 22:38:54 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > >> I have not experimented in a while with my partially built tesla coil, > >> but has anyone used their Tesla coil as an antenna for ELF or other Freqs? > I assume that a typical tesla coil is a rather short and fat structure. I > am not sure that in this case the magnetic field can be ignored, compared > to the electric field. And since a Tesla coil has rather small dimensions - > compared to other LF transmitting antennas - I'm afraid that it will have a > very low efficiency. > BUT ... since you have the Tesla coil available I would certainly recommend > to do some tests (that's what all the fun is about). Over two years ago I reported on the Tesla coil as a radiator. I was operating at radio station at Amberley Museum and was told that there could be some QRM because of a Tesla group who had set up at the Electricity Hall. I did not experience any QRM so after my operating stint I drove my car near to where some of the larger coils were being tested. I was told by the group that the frequencies in used depended on the size of the coil with the large ones on about 130kHz and the one very big one on 70kHz. These coils produced some very spectacular displays. I had my old 707 rig with a converter with me and used a 2m length of wire as an antenna. The rig was located about 100m from the coils. I tuned around the LF bands while some of these monsters were being fired up and heard - nothing! The receiver was working because I could hear the lager commercial stations without difficulty. It could be that all the energy was being dissipated the spark - but I would have expected to receive something. All these big coils were using the rotary spark gap method of firing the primary coils - a spectacular display in themselves. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26026 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2002 21:33:38 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Jan 2002 21:33:38 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22938 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2002 21:33:35 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Jan 2002 21:33:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16WOmV-0000zI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 21:30:07 +0000 Received: from galahad.joust.net ([63.108.136.2] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16WOmU-0000zD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 21:30:06 +0000 Received: from benny-hill (m8-137-178.joust.net [63.108.137.178]) by galahad.joust.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g0VLTF412127 for ; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 16:29:15 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <200201312129.g0VLTF412127@galahad.joust.net> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 16:28:01 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Steve Dove" Subject: Re: LF: Ampliphase X-Mailer: Opera 5.02 build 856a X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi David, >But remember the Ampliphase dates back to a time before the advent of a >practical PWM modulator. Yes. The PWMs and latterly 'digital' modulation types put paid to the Amplis and Doherty's and so forth. The proliferation of Amplis and Continentals came about as their original owners upgraded. >By the way, does anyone know of the current fate of the Ross Revenge? > The Ross last I heard was sitting in Queensborough, Sheerness, and visitable for a fee. Cheers, Steve From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20792 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2002 21:17:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Jan 2002 21:17:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 11567 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2002 21:17:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Jan 2002 21:17:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16WOWw-0000wI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 21:14:02 +0000 Received: from mail4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.211]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16WOWv-0000wD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 21:14:01 +0000 Received: from modem-126.curufin.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.148.254] helo=g3aqc) by mail4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 16WOW7-00032e-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 21:13:12 +0000 Message-ID: <000a01c1aa9c$2fe45dc0$05e9fea9@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. F6BWO T/A attempt. Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 21:13:09 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
I belive Jeff is attempting a T/A crossing , so I will transmit tonight on 135,921.5
in order to provide a guide to propagation.Same time 2230-2330, I will be using 30
sec. QRSS.  73s Laurie.
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16717 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2002 20:58:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Jan 2002 20:58:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 20182 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2002 20:58:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Jan 2002 20:58:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16WODM-0000rs-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 20:53:48 +0000 Received: from cobalt5-he.global.net.uk ([195.147.246.165]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16WODL-0000rn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 20:53:47 +0000 Received: from p1as07a02.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.151.27] helo=drawing) by cobalt5-he.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 3.03 #1) id 16WPDF-0005EQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 21:57:46 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c1aa99$32039ba0$1b9793c3@drawing> From: "David Sparvell" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200201310309.g0V39o408009@galahad.joust.net> Subject: Re: LF: Ampliphase Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 20:48:40 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Sorry about what is now becoming an OT thread. Steve said:- > On reflection, the same could be achieved very much more simply nowadays. But remember the Ampliphase dates back to a time before the advent of a practical PWM modulator. Given the ability to control high voltages and currents with solid state switches, I can't see the Ampliphase concept being translated into a modern commercial design. Although a solid state modulator would be vastly superior to the original valve unit, it still needs a high degree of skill to keep it at peak performance. Remember the Ampliphase was called "The Transmitter which Broadcast Engineers loved to hate!". However, having said that, I take my hat off to the originators of the Ampliphase system for their "lateral thinking" to solve what was seen a shortcoming in traditional AM transmitter designs of that era. By the way, does anyone know of the current fate of the Ross Revenge? Regards David G4FTC From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26969 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2002 19:31:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Jan 2002 19:31:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17186 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2002 18:51:56 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Jan 2002 18:51:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16WMA7-0000bP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 18:42:19 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16WMA7-0000bK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 18:42:19 +0000 Received: from ldsas16-80-131-111.cw-visp.com ([212.137.131.111] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16WLyF-00013d-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 18:30:03 +0000 Message-ID: <3C598FDF.FD5EE2AF@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 18:41:35 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: CFH Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Strong carrier midday on 137 khz then later data, possibly CFH, disappeared late afternoon. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22703 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2002 11:26:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Jan 2002 11:26:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 20581 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2002 11:26:19 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Jan 2002 11:26:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16WFJ7-0008BK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 11:23:09 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16WFJ6-0008BF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 11:23:08 +0000 Received: from ldsas02-66-117-1.cw-visp.com ([212.137.117.1] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16WF7C-0002oM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 11:10:50 +0000 Message-ID: <3C5928E9.BE3723@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 11:22:17 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: COMPAQ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Many thanks to all that responded so quickly to my request for information today, and especially Peter/OM8AQA who sent the whole manual via email. Most replied privately because of attachments. de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10160 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2002 08:53:27 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Jan 2002 08:53:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 25594 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2002 08:53:30 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Jan 2002 08:53:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16WCw4-0007r3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 08:51:12 +0000 Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.88]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16WCw3-0007qy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 08:51:11 +0000 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 16WCvC-000HxL-0U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 08:50:19 +0000 Message-ID: <4MR0mCAU6PW8MwfT@telemetry.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 31 Jan 2002 08:21:40 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: Re: LF: TS850s In-reply-to: <639D20177889D41198A600508BAD3CA103741EE9@capella3.oss.akzonobel.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Wil Yes, I had the exact same problem a while ago on my TS850SAT, but it quickly cured itself! 73, Tom G3OLB In message <639D20177889D41198A600508BAD3CA103741EE9@capella3.oss.akzono bel.nl>, "Laken, W.H.P.A. van der (Wil)" writes >Dear group > >I have problems listening on LF the last weeks. >My TS850s is providing me with "aurora"-like hissing sounds instead of clear >tones as I try to copy cw stations. >Using it for transmitting I get reports like 596 indicating that the >problems occurs also in transmitting mode. >I have been busy trying to find the problem but without success. >Is there anybody in the group who recognizes this description and has found >a solution for this problem? > >Wil - PA0BWL > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21443 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2002 03:17:22 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Jan 2002 03:17:22 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3768 invoked from network); 31 Jan 2002 03:17:25 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Jan 2002 03:17:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16W7cZ-0007IJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 03:10:43 +0000 Received: from galahad.joust.net ([63.108.136.2] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16W7cY-0007IE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 31 Jan 2002 03:10:42 +0000 Received: from benny-hill (m8-137-162.joust.net [63.108.137.162]) by galahad.joust.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g0V39o408009 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 22:09:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <200201310309.g0V39o408009@galahad.joust.net> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 22:08:27 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Steve Dove" Subject: Re: LF: Ampliphase X-Mailer: Opera 5.02 build 856a X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi David, and all, There have been a few 'wet' Amplis. Big L, probably the most 'pro' of the sixties pirates, had a 'G'. The most bizarre was probably the 100kW version on RNI's 'Mebo II', which had two of the mondo PA tubes per phase; the rectifier stacks apparently weren't up to much so 40kW was a good day. Of course, there was the 'H' on the Ross. And one on the Nannell, which never saw light. (Ahem. I wonder which one you knew? Anorak roulette. . .) The worst part about them was the phase-modulator itself, which was a 24" rack wide box full of dozens of tubes and tweaks, with inexorable, continual, alignment creep evidently being the feature most striven for in its design. Mercifully, someone came up with a solid-state replacement. On reflection, the same could be achieved very much more simply nowadays. But it wouldn't use 807s in the crystal oscillators(!); no fun. The two carriers were held 135 degrees apart at 'no modulation'; obviously they swung to in-phase for maximum amplitude and to out-of-phase for minimum; as to be expected the raw modulation linearity was, well, not very, but was corrected adequately by copious feedback, detected at the output. I suspect that a measure of pre-distortion was contrived in the differential phase-modulator stages, too. Still, the basic premise of two class-'C's being more efficient than a 'C' plus an 'AB' was a good one. Even bog-standard plate-modulated senders had a hard time, especially on 558, where the high Q of the antenna system (which made modulating high audio frequencies tough enough anyway) persisted in being high Q but definitely 'somewhere else' in frequency as the boat leaned . . . very audible on air, assuming the thing hadn't ker-chonked in disgust. Cheers, Steve W3EEE 1/30/2002 1:04:58 AM, G0MRF@aol.com wrote: > andre.kesteloot@ieee.org writes: > interestingly, changing the phase to produce amplitude modulation was the > > approach RCA followed in the 1960's with their "ampliphase" AM > medium-wave and > short-wave transmitters > >> > I remember it well. > > Worked fine on land, and then someone put a 50kW ampliphase transmitter on > a ship in the north sea. They saw some 'interesting' effects as the ship > rolled and the distance from the mast to sea (together with the feed > impedance) changed. > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5807 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 20:39:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 20:39:32 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 2839 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 20:39:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 20:39:36 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16W1SY-0006Rr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 20:35:58 +0000 Received: from mail-1.tiscalinet.it ([195.130.225.147] helo=mail.tiscalinet.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16W1SX-0006Rm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 20:35:57 +0000 Received: from orion.pii.net (62.11.52.157) by mail.tiscalinet.it (5.5.053) id 3C35BE2E00BCB499 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 21:34:31 +0100 Received: (from clapo@localhost) by orion.pii.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA00748 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 19:32:08 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on Linux X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-reply-to: Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 19:32:08 +0100 (CET) From: "Claudio" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Tesla Coil as an antenna Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On 29-Jan-02 Tom Tishken KD4WOV wrote: > > > I have thought about keeping the primary coil in mineral oil for heat > dissipation, any suggestions about cooling of the primary? What do you all > use to keep your LF antennas cool? Why not using a copper pipe and circulating distilled water (or car antifreeze fluid) inside it? The fluid MUST be non-conductive! I have seen a kW power amplifier project for 23 cm in an ARLL Handbook using this cooling system. 73 de Claudio ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Claudio Pozzi http://www.qsl.net/ik2pii happy Linux user E-Mail: Claudio Date: 30-Jan-02 Time: 19:27:07 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16117 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 19:56:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 19:56:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 21112 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 18:20:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 18:20:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VzC6-00068o-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 18:10:50 +0000 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VzC5-00068j-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 18:10:49 +0000 Received: from host62-7-48-160.btinternet.com ([62.7.48.160] helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16VzBG-0006w1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 18:09:59 +0000 Message-ID: <000001c1a9b9$53240d00$a030073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: John G4CNN Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 14:34:37 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi John, your excite address is still not accepting messages from my ISP.....does it object to attachments? Most of the last propagation reports have failed. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11264 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 18:16:19 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 18:16:19 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1718 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 16:51:57 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 16:51:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VxgJ-0005sY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:33:55 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VxgH-0005sT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:33:54 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16VxfR-0000OT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:33:01 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16VxfR-0001xj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:33:01 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020130160033.00a696c0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:30:45 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: Re: Frequency standards for LF. The next generation In-reply-to: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9983@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.go v.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Andy, LF Group, Thanks for writing about this very interesting project - At 15:17 28/01/2002 +0000, you wrote: >The effect is to keep the VCXO precisely locked in the long term to the GPS >signal, although in the short term it's instantaneous phase is jittering, >and therefore the frequency is shifting by a Hz or two every second. By >apropriate choice of charge pump R/C values, the jitter can be minimised. >When this source is subsequently divided down to LF, the phase shift is >reduced by the division factor. What is the source of the jitter here - is it being introduced by the stabilisation circuit, or that due to the VCXO itself? Also, I can see that it would not matter much for long symbol lengths like Jason or you coherent PSK system, but would the jitter be a problem for something like WOLF, with it's 10 bits/s? Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3150 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 16:29:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 16:29:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16174 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 16:29:45 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 16:29:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VxV9-0005qr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:22:23 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VxV8-0005qm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:22:22 +0000 Received: from ldsas17-81-132-117.cw-visp.com ([212.137.132.117] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16VxJE-00012a-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:10:04 +0000 Message-ID: <3C581D5B.300E7D31@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 16:20:44 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: compaq Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello All Does anyone know what type of sound card is installed in the compaq armada 1560D It seems to handle QRS, JASON and ARGO so far but would like to know its limitations. I have no handbook etc for the machine. Thanks de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18286 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 11:36:46 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 11:36:46 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29960 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 11:36:47 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 11:36:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Vstq-00054g-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:27:34 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Vstp-00054b-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:27:33 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16Vst2-0005HX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:26:44 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16Vssy-0002QI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:26:40 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020130111250.00ab5dc0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:23:03 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: Transistor info MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, I have just had to replace a couple of the pass transistors in the Farnell H60/25 PSU that I normally run my LF TX from. They are TO3 NPN devices marked "TE1912", with Motorola branding, and also T8414, which I presume is the date code. I assumed they were some sort of up-rated 2N3055, but does anyone have any info? Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12738 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 11:28:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 11:28:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 25459 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 11:28:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 11:28:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Vsjg-00052j-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:17:04 +0000 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Vsjf-00052e-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:17:03 +0000 Received: from host217-35-35-58.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.35.58] helo=dellboy) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16Vsis-00011x-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:16:14 +0000 Message-ID: <001801c1a97f$8caa5b40$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <639D20177889D41198A600508BAD3CA103741EE9@capella3.oss.akzonobel.nl> Subject: LF: Re: TS850s Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:16:22 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Wil. It sounds like a similar problem to the one I had with my TS850. As I rotated the "slope tune" controls I would get different unwanted tones as well as the desired one. The fault lay with the DDS chips on the "CAR" unit which generates all the mix frequencies from the 20MHz master clock. You can listen to these outputs on another receiver and see which one is faulty. You then need to replace the appropriate Kenwood DDS chip and here's the bad news... they cost £30 each (50 Euro) from a Kenwood dealer and are surface mount! They aren't the very small format surface-mount chips so they can be changed with a steady hand and normal tools. I have had to replace two of these chips in my radio so they are a point of failure. Sorry to bring bad news! 73 Dave G3YXM. > I have problems listening on LF the last weeks. > My TS850s is providing me with "aurora"-like hissing sounds instead of clear > tones as I try to copy cw stations. > Using it for transmitting I get reports like 596 indicating that the > problems occurs also in transmitting mode. > I have been busy trying to find the problem but without success. > Is there anybody in the group who recognizes this description and has found > a solution for this problem? > > Wil - PA0BWL > > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > This message, including attached files, may contain confidential > information and is intended only for the use by the individual > and/or the entity to which it is addressed. Any unauthorized use, > dissemination of, or copying of the information contained herein is > not allowed and may lead to irreparable harm and damage for which > you may be held liable. If you receive this message in error or if > it is intended for someone else please notify the sender by > returning this e-mail immediately and delete the message. > -------------------------------------------------------------------- > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20037 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 11:13:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 11:13:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10510 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 11:13:21 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 11:13:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VsZK-00050E-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:06:22 +0000 Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VsZJ-000509-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:06:21 +0000 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.26.) id l.164.7f066ab (4459) for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 06:04:58 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <164.7f066ab.29892d5a@aol.com> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 06:04:58 EST Subject: LF: Ampliphase To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 10510 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit In a message dated 1/29/02 6:03:20 PM GMT Standard Time, andre.kesteloot@ieee.org writes:


interestingly, changing the phase to produce amplitude modulation was the
approach RCA followed in the 1960's with their "ampliphase" AM medium-wave and
short-wave transmitters



I remember it well.
Worked fine on land, and then someone put a 50kW ampliphase transmitter on a ship in the north sea. They saw some 'interesting' effects as the ship rolled and the distance from the mast to sea (together with the feed impedance) changed.

My antenna has also varied in impedance in a similar manner. Unfortunately, it never returned to an upright position without a great deal of effort.

73

David   G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17737 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 10:55:17 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 10:55:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21979 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 10:55:19 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 10:55:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VsHC-0004ta-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:47:38 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VsHA-0004tJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:47:38 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g0UAkEOH114948 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:46:14 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20020130114238.31479a9a@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:42:38 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Tesla Coil as an antenna In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20020129153852.00b06cd8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >At 09:14 29/01/2002 -0500, you wrote: >>Hello, >> I have not experimented in a while with my partially built tesla coil, but >>has anyone used their Tesla coil as an antenna for ELF or other Freqs? If we >>try to use it for 137 KHz how do you determine ERP? >Dear Tom, LF group, > >Well, occasionally I have inadvertently used my LF antenna as a Tesla coil >:-) But seriously, The Tesla coil is essentially a helical antenna (see >ON7YD's LF antenna web pages http://www.qsl.net/on7yd/136ant.htm ). So if >it is several metres tall, and you can persuade it to resonate on 136kHz, >it might make a usable LFantenna. Of course, you would want to avoid the >discharges that occur in the normal Tesla coil mode of operation, since >these generate QRM and absorb lots of RF power. A Tesla coil and helical antenna have in common that they have a 'distributed' inductance, ie. the inductance is not located at a single point as with a traditional short vertical monopole but distributed all over the antenna. When trying to model the helical antenna I assumed that it was a tall and slim structure, where the distributed inductance does not create any significant magnetic field but only improves the current distribution (and thus radiation resistance) of the antenna. So even though it look like a coil it is an 'electrical' antenna. I assume that a typical tesla coil is a rather short and fat structure. I am not sure that in this case the magnetic field can be ignored, compared to the electric field. And since a Tesla coil has rather small dimensions - compared to other LF transmitting antennas - I'm afraid that it will have a very low efficiency. BUT ... since you have the Tesla coil available I would certainly recommend to do some tests (that's what all the fun is about). 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18361 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 10:49:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 10:49:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15862 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 10:49:07 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 10:49:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VsAW-0004sC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:40:44 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VsAV-0004s7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:40:43 +0000 Received: from ldsas12-76-127-46.cw-visp.com ([212.137.127.46] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16Vryg-0003ff-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:28:30 +0000 Message-ID: <3C57CD59.F7A1C03F@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:39:21 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: back Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Just returned from a holiday to find over 200 msgs on email and doubt if I will have time to read them all except a few of the technical topics. Fortunately the gales did not damage the antenna installation. Not sure what is happening on the TA scene but will catch up on the news later. Now off to plant some trees and emails and radio will have to wait for later. de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10350 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 10:45:57 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 10:45:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5702 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 10:45:58 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 10:45:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Vs7l-0004qy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:37:53 +0000 Received: from gate3.oss.akzonobel.nl ([192.87.3.7]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Vs7k-0004qs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:37:52 +0000 Received: (from fwmaster@localhost) by gate3.oss.akzonobel.nl (8.9.1a/8.6.12) id LAA02540 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:36:32 +0100 (MET) Received: by gate3.oss.akzonobel.nl via smap (V1.3) id sma001044; Wed, 30 Jan 02 11:35:12 +0100 Received: by ras1.oss.akzonobel.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:35:12 +0100 Message-ID: <639D20177889D41198A600508BAD3CA103741EE9@capella3.oss.akzonobel.nl> From: "Laken, W.H.P.A. van der \(Wil\)" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: TS850s Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 11:35:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear group I have problems listening on LF the last weeks. My TS850s is providing me with "aurora"-like hissing sounds instead of clear tones as I try to copy cw stations. Using it for transmitting I get reports like 596 indicating that the problems occurs also in transmitting mode. I have been busy trying to find the problem but without success. Is there anybody in the group who recognizes this description and has found a solution for this problem? Wil - PA0BWL -------------------------------------------------------------------- This message, including attached files, may contain confidential information and is intended only for the use by the individual and/or the entity to which it is addressed. Any unauthorized use, dissemination of, or copying of the information contained herein is not allowed and may lead to irreparable harm and damage for which you may be held liable. If you receive this message in error or if it is intended for someone else please notify the sender by returning this e-mail immediately and delete the message. -------------------------------------------------------------------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18788 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 10:37:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 10:37:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 25935 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 10:37:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 10:37:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VrzE-0004pg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:29:04 +0000 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VrzD-0004pb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:29:03 +0000 Received: from host62-7-55-165.btinternet.com ([62.7.55.165] helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16VryP-000352-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:28:14 +0000 Message-ID: <001d01c1a978$cb5fafe0$a537073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Propagation Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:10:24 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Rich, I am afraid that in my opinion the propagation conditions on 160m and LF are completely different. There may be some features that are the same but (and I may be wrong here) I believe that long distance 160m is mainly propagated by F layer reflection whereas LF does not penetrate the E-layer. Most LF propagation seems to be by 'reflection' from the bottom of the E-layer (at night) or from the lower regions of enhanced ionisation in the D-layer (daytime). Since early December, there has been evident in Brian's (CT1DRP) plots of DCF39 that there has been enhanced daytime signals (6 to 10dB above the average for early September ), and depressed night-time signals. These have been confirmed by occasional plots of CFH from my location, when It has appeared. The usual cause of the conditions described has been ions injected into to D-layer by the big geomagnetic storms. The after-effects of the storm can last up to 20 days, before, I presume, these energetic ions decay. The strange situation at present is that there has been little geomagnetic activity since late November to early December and yet the conditions at night has stayed depressed. There is a sign this morning that things are getting back to normal as I logged a carrier on 137,010 or there abouts which I assume is CFH. The overnight levels were better than they have been recently but there is still a lot of deep fading. These condition usually indicate the end of a propagation even and a return to 'normal' conditions. The fact that the carrier is still strong here at 1000z suggests that we are not fully clear of the ions that give enhanced day-time conditions yet. This enhacement of ionisation in the D-layer would also give increased absorption of 160m signals, but I guess the Hawaii station was talking about night-time paths. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20205 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 09:49:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 09:49:24 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 19161 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 09:49:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 09:49:25 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VrHo-0004j5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:44:12 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VrHn-0004j0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:44:12 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id JAA20432; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:53:22 GMT Received: (qmail 12714 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 10:31:38 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 10:31:38 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id JAA00278; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:59:58 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma000265; Wed, 30 Jan 02 09:59:30 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:49:53 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:42:51 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB998A@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: EH Antenna Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:42:45 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: That just about sums it up. A short fat monopole will give the sort of performance of a ....well... a short fat monopole ! Better than a short thin one, but still not very good. I am always unconvinced when someone comes along and claims to have reinvented or bettered something that has worked for years - simply by juggling a few equations. Could be skeptical and say it is because they don't actually understand the real underlying theory, just the sqiggly maths (*) behind it, but that would be very rude so I won't :-( Andy 'JNT ps. Squiggly Maths was a term coined by someone at work here to describe the contents of the average communications theory text book, or any other subject for that matter. Full of curved lines, curly brackets, Greek letters and little realism. ----------- >Apart from that I have serious doubts that a EH antenna works the way the >inventors claim (combining separately generated E and H fields to a >'radiating' EH field). Maybe it no more than a very funny looking short and >fat monopole. >73, Rik ON7YD -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18949 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 09:32:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 09:32:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4615 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 09:32:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 09:32:18 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Vr3G-0004ge-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:29:10 +0000 Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.101]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Vr3F-0004gW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:29:10 +0000 Received: from northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (northrelay01.pok.ibm.com [9.117.200.21]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA398994 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 04:24:42 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss9.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.75]) by northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0U9Rj531962 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 04:27:46 -0500 Message-ID: <3C57BC78.401BE34A@usa.net> Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 10:27:20 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: PSK31 generation References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020128115929.00ab3b90@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020129144512.02f80bf0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020129174706.00abd840@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz wrote: > [...] > The discussion so far relates to a "full bridge" output stage, 2 totem > poles with the load connected between the two outputs. Jim, thanks for the explanation. I hadn't realized you were talking of a bridge configuration. I thought that a single totem pole were used, and so I could not figure how it was possible to drive it with 0 degrees phase. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16559 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 09:07:13 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 09:07:13 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5575 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 09:07:15 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 09:07:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Vqbo-0004be-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:00:48 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Vqbn-0004bX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:00:47 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g0U8xROH091796 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:59:27 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20020130095551.2ae77570@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:55:51 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Please give us some signals In-reply-to: <3C55CFB5.1AA9C9B9@usa.net> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > I asked those guys what their computations would give for an EH antenna for >137 kHz... >The answer was that the diameter would have to be a bit less than one meter, >but the length around 17 meters .... this for a computed (by them) efficiency >of greater than 90 %... >I imagine what my neighbours would think of me should I erect such a monster in >my backyard... so, even if the EH antenna were a serious thing, that would not >be a viable solution for many. Hi Alberto, Ask these guys what would be the dimensions of a 1% efficiency EH antenna, maybe more convenient. I'm sure most of us could live with 1% efficiency, meaning that you get 1 Watt ERP with no more than 100W TX power. Apart from that I have serious doubts that a EH antenna works the way the inventors claim (combining separately generated E and H fields to a 'radiating' EH field). Maybe it no more than a very funny looking short and fat monopole. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21455 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 08:43:42 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 08:43:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8260 invoked from network); 30 Jan 2002 08:43:43 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jan 2002 08:43:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VqEm-0004Yr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 08:37:00 +0000 Received: from ns3.swh.sk ([192.108.125.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VqEk-0004Ym-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 08:36:59 +0000 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes.swh.sk [192.108.125.60]) by ns3.swh.sk (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0U8a2712589 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:36:02 +0100 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA09000 for ; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:35:53 +0100 (MET) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:35:50 +0100 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E0333C1CD@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: Good propagations...? Date: Wed, 30 Jan 2002 09:35:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi LF-ers... Info by Lee KH6BZF, well knowing expert for the conditions forecast....between 30.1. and 2.2.2002 will be extremely good propagations on 160m. It sounds good. Maybe the coherence between 160m and LF propagations is possible. 73 de Rich OM2TW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7971 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2002 21:43:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jan 2002 21:43:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 29681 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2002 21:43:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jan 2002 21:43:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VfyH-0003Pn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 21:39:17 +0000 Received: from fep01.swip.net ([130.244.199.129] helo=fep01-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VfyG-0003Pi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 21:39:16 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.101.37.35]) by fep01-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020129213826.KWIH1021.fep01-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 22:38:26 +0100 Message-ID: <006a01c1a90d$5d304cc0$6e2465d5@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020128115929.00ab3b90@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020129144512.02f80bf0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Subject: Re: LF: PSK31 generation Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 22:38:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Jim & the LF group Jim wrote: > It would take a little care to implement though; if the drive to only one > of the totem poles was varied in phase, changing the output amplitude would > also change the output phase, introducing up to 90 degrees unwanted > additional phase modulation into the signal. This could be avoided by > shifting the phase of both drive signals by equal and opposite amounts. You are right. I didn't think of that... I did a little trig math and came to the same conclusion. Looking only at the first term of the Fourier series, the fundamental frequency, the voltage difference between the totem pole midpoints is cos(wt) - cos(wt+p) (assuming a supply voltage of 1V...) where w=2*pi*f and p is the phase difference between the totem poles. Knowing that cos(a) - cos(b) = -2 * sin ((a+b)/2) * sin ((a-b)/2), I inserted wt and wt+p and got -2 * sin (wt + p/2) * sin (p/2) The first sin(...) is the "oscillating part" and the second sin(...) is the amplitude. It is evident from "wt + p/2" that the phase of the resulting signal is shifted 0..90 deg's as the totem pole phase diff' goes from 0..180 deg's (or perhaps the other way around, I don't care about signs right now, phase is a relative thing). The amplitude is indeed a function of sin (p/2) as Claudio, IN3OTD, wrote yesterday. I can't see why an amplitude -> phase lookup table should be such a nightmare? I think that this could work well if the series resonant tank is given some more of vitamin Q, less C / more L. I have the feeling that MOSFETs are probably better than bipolars in this case since the transistors will (probably) be exposed to "backward currents" somewhere in the cycle, even in the R+j0 tuned case. MOSFETs will happily conduct backwards in the "ON state" while bipolar transistors in totem poles need "antiparallel" diodes with increased losses as result. (Yes, I am obsessed by the thought of 100% efficiency ;-) 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29814 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2002 20:21:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jan 2002 20:21:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 11721 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2002 20:21:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jan 2002 20:21:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VehX-0003HJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 20:17:55 +0000 Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.22] helo=hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VehV-0003HE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 20:17:54 +0000 Received: from sdn-ar-006florlap336.dialsprint.net ([158.252.71.242] helo=kd4wov) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16Vegf-0000PU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 12:17:02 -0800 From: "Tom Tishken KD4WOV" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Tesla Coil as an antenna Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 15:13:31 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20020129153852.00b06cd8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Yes, keeping the sparks from flying is one major concern i was having. I had a primary coil that resonated very well at 138 KHz, but I never finished making a secondary coil. Other than a Large globe atop a large secondary coil, has anyone else found a way to keep it from arcing? Second question, should we try to drive it with high voltage (400 to 1200 volts and very little current) or should we drive it with low voltage (12 to 24 volts and 10 to 40 amps). The primary coil I was using would withstand 12 volts and 30 amps, I cooked it when I went to 37 amps. Third question, For all you LF antenna guru's. should I use stranded or solid copper, steel, or aluminum wire. I know each one has good and bad, but what have you all had better luck with? I have thought about keeping the primary coil in mineral oil for heat dissipation, any suggestions about cooling of the primary? What do you all use to keep your LF antennas cool? -----Original Message----- From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf Of James Moritz Sent: Tuesday, January 29, 2002 11:05 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Tesla Coil as an antenna At 09:14 29/01/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Hello, > I have not experimented in a while with my partially built tesla coil, but >has anyone used their Tesla coil as an antenna for ELF or other Freqs? If we >try to use it for 137 KHz how do you determine ERP? Dear Tom, LF group, Well, occasionally I have inadvertently used my LF antenna as a Tesla coil :-) But seriously, The Tesla coil is essentially a helical antenna (see ON7YD's LF antenna web pages http://www.qsl.net/on7yd/136ant.htm ). So if it is several metres tall, and you can persuade it to resonate on 136kHz, it might make a usable LFantenna. Of course, you would want to avoid the discharges that occur in the normal Tesla coil mode of operation, since these generate QRM and absorb lots of RF power. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15792 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2002 18:24:27 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jan 2002 18:24:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1143 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2002 18:24:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jan 2002 18:24:19 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VcqH-00034h-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 18:18:49 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VcqG-00034c-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 18:18:48 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16VcpT-0001hG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 18:17:59 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16VcpS-00030i-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 18:17:59 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020129174706.00abd840@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 18:15:32 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: PSK31 generation In-reply-to: <3C56CEB5.C52D2542@usa.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020128115929.00ab3b90@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020129144512.02f80bf0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 17:32 29/01/2002 +0100, you wrote: >I am not familiar with that totem pole scheme, but, isn't it dangerous to >drive a totem pole with 0 degrees ? Wouldn't both the Fet (transistors, >whatever) be brought in conduction state at the same time ? Or is there >a current limiting device ? Just curious... > >73 Alberto I2PHD Dear Alberto, LF Group, "Totem pole" = 2 transistors in series with the top one connected to +ve supply rail, the bottom transistor connected to the -ve rail, and the output taken from the connection between the two transistors; also called complementary push-pull and similar things. Examples are TTL and CMOS outputs, most transistor audio PAs, and of course the Decca PAs The discussion so far relates to a "full bridge" output stage, 2 totem poles with the load connected between the two outputs. As Alberto points out, both transistors in the same totem pole must not be switched on at the same time, or they will short out the supply, called cross-conduction or "shoot through". But provided in one totem pole, transistor 1 is always off while transistor 2 is on, and vice-versa, or both transistors are off, no shoot-through will occur. In the Decca, the two totem poles are always driven 180degrees out of phase from each other. However, the two totem poles could be driven with any relative phase because the impedance of the load limits the possible current flow between the two outputs, and this leaves several possible combinations of duty cycle and relative phase which could be used to vary the power going into the load. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26182 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2002 18:02:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jan 2002 18:02:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5363 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2002 18:02:17 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jan 2002 18:02:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VcUa-0002zs-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 17:56:24 +0000 Received: from out4.prserv.net ([32.97.166.34] helo=prserv.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VcUZ-0002zn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 17:56:23 +0000 Received: from ieee.org (slip-32-102-142-17.md.us.prserv.net[32.102.142.17]) by prserv.net (out4) with SMTP id <200201291755252040355m00e>; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 17:55:26 +0000 Message-ID: <3C56E216.DD4AB3CC@ieee.org> Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 12:55:34 -0500 From: "Andre Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: PSK31 generation References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020128115929.00ab3b90@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020129144512.02f80bf0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz wrote: > if the drive to only one > of the totem poles was varied in phase, changing the output amplitude would > also change the output phase, introducing up to 90 degrees unwanted > additional phase modulation into the signal. interestingly, changing the phase to produce amplitude modulation was the approach RCA followed in the 1960's with their "ampliphase" AM medium-wave and short-wave transmitters 73 André N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9709 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2002 16:40:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jan 2002 16:40:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5278 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2002 16:40:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jan 2002 16:40:50 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VbE4-0002qN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 16:35:16 +0000 Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.101]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VbE2-0002qI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 16:35:15 +0000 Received: from northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (northrelay01.pok.ibm.com [9.117.200.21]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA330714 for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 11:30:20 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss6.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.71]) by northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0TGXH5190050 for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 11:33:17 -0500 Message-ID: <3C56CEB5.C52D2542@usa.net> Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 17:32:53 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: PSK31 generation References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020128115929.00ab3b90@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020129144512.02f80bf0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > >cycle and the modulation is done only by varying the phase between the > >totem pole drivers 0 - 180 degrees. I am not familiar with that totem pole scheme, but, isn't it dangerous to drive a totem pole with 0 degrees ? Wouldn't both the Fet (transistors, whatever) be brought in conduction state at the same time ? Or is there a current limiting device ? Just curious... 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9406 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2002 16:15:45 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jan 2002 16:15:45 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3988 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2002 16:15:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jan 2002 16:15:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VaoB-0002m0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 16:08:31 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Vao9-0002lv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 16:08:30 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16VanN-0006Ca-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 16:07:41 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16VanM-0006qE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 16:07:40 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020129153852.00b06cd8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 16:05:23 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: Tesla Coil as an antenna In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 09:14 29/01/2002 -0500, you wrote: >Hello, > I have not experimented in a while with my partially built tesla coil, but >has anyone used their Tesla coil as an antenna for ELF or other Freqs? If we >try to use it for 137 KHz how do you determine ERP? Dear Tom, LF group, Well, occasionally I have inadvertently used my LF antenna as a Tesla coil :-) But seriously, The Tesla coil is essentially a helical antenna (see ON7YD's LF antenna web pages http://www.qsl.net/on7yd/136ant.htm ). So if it is several metres tall, and you can persuade it to resonate on 136kHz, it might make a usable LFantenna. Of course, you would want to avoid the discharges that occur in the normal Tesla coil mode of operation, since these generate QRM and absorb lots of RF power. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4179 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2002 15:29:34 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jan 2002 15:29:34 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9777 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2002 15:29:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jan 2002 15:29:35 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VZyd-0002dR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 15:15:15 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VZyc-0002dM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 15:15:15 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16VZxp-00040I-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 15:14:25 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16VZxp-0005Ho-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 15:14:25 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020129144512.02f80bf0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 15:12:08 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: PSK31 generation In-reply-to: <005401c1a8c6$c6faca00$e32665d5@oemcomputer> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020128115929.00ab3b90@gemini.herts.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 14:12 29/01/2002 +0100, Johan wrote: >...Perhaps I am missing something, but as far as I can see, >the waveform *will* be symmetrical if the drive to each totem pole has a >50/50 duty >cycle and the modulation is done only by varying the phase between the >totem pole >drivers 0 - 180 degrees. Dear Johan, LF Group, Yes, It will - I hadn't thought of it quite like that before...If you have 4 output devices in a bridge configuration, there are many different ways of driving them! Of course, any waveform that is symmetrical will have no even order harmonics. It would take a little care to implement though; if the drive to only one of the totem poles was varied in phase, changing the output amplitude would also change the output phase, introducing up to 90 degrees unwanted additional phase modulation into the signal. This could be avoided by shifting the phase of both drive signals by equal and opposite amounts. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11069 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2002 14:22:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jan 2002 14:22:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 12619 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2002 14:22:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jan 2002 14:22:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VZ5B-0002UM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 14:17:57 +0000 Received: from hawk.mail.pas.earthlink.net ([207.217.120.22] helo=hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VZ5A-0002UF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 14:17:57 +0000 Received: from sdn-ar-006florlap286.dialsprint.net ([158.252.71.216] helo=kd4wov) by hawk.prod.itd.earthlink.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16VZ4G-00015G-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 06:17:00 -0800 From: "Tom Tishken KD4WOV" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Tesla Coil as an antenna Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 09:14:08 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello, I have not experimented in a while with my partially built tesla coil, but has anyone used their Tesla coil as an antenna for ELF or other Freqs? If we try to use it for 137 KHz how do you determine ERP? I had one I was building a few years ago using a 555 timer as an oscillator with a buffer. Followed by a Darlington pair diving a pair of power transistors. never got past the primary coil, due to frying the primary wire with too much current (i.e. too small of a current limiting resister and too much drive). From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20036 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2002 13:26:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jan 2002 13:26:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 3004 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2002 13:26:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jan 2002 13:26:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VY5I-0002M9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 13:14:00 +0000 Received: from fep03.swip.net ([130.244.199.131] helo=fep03-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VY5H-0002M4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 13:13:59 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.101.38.227]) by fep03-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020129131309.HCTJ29824.fep03-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 14:13:09 +0100 Message-ID: <005401c1a8c6$c6faca00$e32665d5@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020128115929.00ab3b90@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Subject: Re: LF: PSK31 generation Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 14:12:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Jim and the Group Jim Moritz wrote: > I tried some experiments with a scheme similar to that suggested by Johan - > The problem with this is that, while the square wave output contains > essentially no even harmonics, as soon as you change the duty cycle, or the > relative phase of the two totem pole outputs, a strong second harmonic > component appears. I don't understand this... Perhaps I am missing something, but as far as I can see, the waveform *will* be symmetrical if the drive to each totem pole has a 50/50 duty cycle and the modulation is done only by varying the phase between the totem pole drivers 0 - 180 degrees. For example, with 90 degrees shift it looks like this: 0, +1, 0, -1, 0, +1, 0, -1... Curiousity made me write a simple program to simulate the signal. The program generated an audio file containing the difference between two 50/50 square waves. It starts with the two waves at 180 degrees. The phase difference is then gradually reduced to zero at the end of the file. The file was analysed whith Spectrogram - there was no sign of any even harmonic! (This was easier than doing Fourier calculations :-) As expected, the level of 3*F approaches that of 1*F when the phase shift approaches zero. As Andy mentioned, the fundamental voltage / phase ratio seems *very* non-linear. 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21204 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2002 07:04:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jan 2002 07:04:41 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29868 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2002 07:04:43 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jan 2002 07:04:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VSGt-0001i2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 07:01:35 +0000 Received: from siaag2aa.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.131]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VSGr-0001hx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 07:01:34 +0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2aa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id CAA13222 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 02:00:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 29 Jan 2002 01:59:56 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Re: Send us some signals To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200201290200_MC3-EFBC-A465@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Jim, >By the time my "guests" had gone and I had fixed the antenna, it was 1545 >on Sunday afternoon - I transmitted a Jason92 signal from then until about >1815 on 137.500kHz, but I guess you must have been on the way home by >then... Sorry about that, hope there will be other opportunities soon. > >Cheers, Jim Moritz >73 de M0BMU< ... I copied your signals perfectly her in Northern Germany. I myself was not able to transmit due to the same reasons as Wolf, the storm caused heavy movement of my antenne, pushing some of the top load radials against other objects so that I could not tune properly. After the strom this night it looks that I have to do some major repair work ... lots of radials and guy wires are caught in places where they are not supposed to be ... Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20220 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2002 03:15:03 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jan 2002 03:15:03 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5286 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2002 03:15:04 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jan 2002 03:15:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VObC-0001JW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 03:06:18 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VObB-0001JL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 03:06:17 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16VOaN-0001RR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 03:05:27 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16VCF5-0002U0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 13:54:39 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020128115929.00ab3b90@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 13:52:30 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: PSK31 generation In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Many thanks to DL4YHF for the speedy software update; I hope to do some tests on PSK31 some time in the next few days. About using BPSK modulation with the Decca TX:- The phase keying can easily be done using an EXOR gate in my case, or a system such as G0MRF/SM6LKM's DDS board. The problem here is of course that the abrupt phase transitions with a constant-amplitude output from a class D PA like the Decca cause horrendous key clicks, which when running ERP up to 1W would cause serious QRM over several hundred Hz of the band - I tried it with a low-level signal; it really is bad! To get round this, the TX is also amplitude modulated with a half-sinusoidal envelope which ramps the output down to zero before the phase transition occurs, then ramps it back up again, which gives a well defined bandwidth. The modulator is basically a big series linear regulator that controls the supply voltage to the PA. This sounds like a headache from the point of view of efficiency, but actually the regulator only dissipates about 150W with 1.2kW PEP BPSK output, and the overall efficiency is still around 80%. The modulation envelope is generated by a circuit that looks for transitions in the PSK data, and when one occurs it generates a piecewise approximation to the sine envelope, which is filtered and used by the modulator/regulator as a reference voltage. The phase data is also delayed by half a symbol period before going into the EXOR modulator, so the amplitude has time to ramp down to zero before the phase transition occurs. The result is a very clean BPSK signal that I used successfully for COHERENT and WOLF mode tests last winter. The envelope generator is a rather long-winded thing with about a dozen logic and linear IC's, but could easily be made using a PIC with D/A converter - or DL4YHF's suggestion of generating this on the sound card could be used. The Modulator/Regulator has 8 MOSFETs on a big heatsink - I also use it for CW keying, and it provides PSU overload protection too. About other methods of generating BPSK:- I tried some experiments with a scheme similar to that suggested by Johan - The problem with this is that, while the square wave output contains essentially no even harmonics, as soon as you change the duty cycle, or the relative phase of the two totem pole outputs, a strong second harmonic component appears. This is much more difficult to filter out of the TX output than the third and higher harmonics, requiring excessive high Q in the tank circuit and/or a low-pass filter with a very sharp and accurate cut-off. I think it is possible to use PWM to achieve output control, but the output waveform must be kept symmetrical. You could of course use a separate PWM regulator to control the PA supply, but this would be quite a difficult project at the 1.2kW level, with significant noise and intermodulation problems possible, and the overall TX efficiency would not be that much better than the linear modulator. I think G4JNT has a PWM circuit in the LF Handbook. Another approach is to use "variable phase" modulation, ie. ramping the phase slowly from 0 to 180 instead of an abrupt transition. This does certainly work, although I'm not sure if it would impair the performance of the signal under weak signal conditions. You can see my experimental variable phase modulator circuit on G3YXM's "features" web pages. There is also a linear modulator circuit on 'YXM's site - this works perfectly well, but obviously requires a linear PA. The conventional approach to generating BPSK is to use a DSP device such as a PC and sound card to generate the modulated signal with an audio carrier frequency, and then use an SSB TX to linearly translate this to 136k or wherever. However, poor sound card sampling rate accuracy caused a lot of problems with WOLF, and getting rid of the sound card altogether was a big improvement. Also, I didn't have a suitable SSB TX. The same undoubtedly applies to other "slow" digital modes, such as Andy's coherent PSK experiments. However, the timing requirements for PSK31 are much less critical, and so the sound card should be perfectly OK for this. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11029 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2002 03:11:51 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jan 2002 03:11:51 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3185 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2002 03:11:44 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jan 2002 03:11:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VObC-0001JU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 03:06:18 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VObB-0001JK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 03:06:17 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16VOaN-0001RO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 03:05:27 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16VARf-0006ly-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:59:31 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020128114630.00a7f288@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:56:53 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: Re: Send us some signals MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Alberto, LF group, By the time my "guests" had gone and I had fixed the antenna, it was 1545 on Sunday afternoon - I transmitted a Jason92 signal from then until about 1815 on 137.500kHz, but I guess you must have been on the way home by then... Sorry about that, hope there will be other opportunities soon. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21537 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2002 00:45:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jan 2002 00:45:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 18840 invoked from network); 29 Jan 2002 00:45:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jan 2002 00:45:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VMK0-000146-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 00:40:24 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VMJz-000141-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 00:40:23 +0000 Received: from host62-7-45-104.btinternet.com ([62.7.45.104] helo=default) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16VMJC-0004Ki-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 29 Jan 2002 00:39:34 +0000 Message-ID: <000e01c1a85d$74ff5540$682d073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: I.C.M or Luxembourg effect and Propagation Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 23:44:43 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, I have had some more recent discussions with Vaino, OH2LX, on the effect and have several maps of his observations, which centre mainly around a high power Polish LF station. Victim stations seem to be located with a bearing passing as far as 50kM from the offending station. Since BC stations radiate from vertical masts, I naively thought there would be no effect from a bearing straight throught the 'causing' station. This is not true, I guess due to the disturbance at an elevation of 60 degrees or so in front and behind. I often hear the 'signature tune' with the two 'gong' tones that Peter G3PLX mentioned. One more recent subjective observation (as a result of my propagation observations) is that the Ionospheric Cross Modulation (ICM) is always noticable (worse??) when there has been a geomagnetic storm (usually peak radio effects are 3 to 4 days after the storm), and significant disruption to LF propagation. I suppose this is reasonable as these events inject high levels of ions (electrons) into the D-Layer. So there is more material to 'work' with. There has not been a major storm for some time but for some reason there is a large reservoir of absorbing ions in the D-layer which does not seem to be decaying very rapidly. One good point is that these have led to good daytime conditions on 136 recently, though night-time conditions have not yielded their normal high signal levels. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com Unfortunately Vaino is not fit enough to join in with the discussion, but I am sure he is following it with interest. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2011 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 22:34:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 22:34:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 26476 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 22:34:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 22:34:22 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VKEc-0000lj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 22:26:42 +0000 Received: from d12lmsgate-3.de.ibm.com ([195.212.91.201]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VKEa-0000le-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 22:26:40 +0000 Received: from d12relay02.de.ibm.com (d12relay02.de.ibm.com [9.165.215.23]) by d12lmsgate-3.de.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id XAA16884 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 23:25:10 +0100 Received: from usa.net (ss8.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.73]) by d12relay02.de.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0SMQI173350 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 23:26:29 +0100 Message-ID: <3C55CFB5.1AA9C9B9@usa.net> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 23:24:53 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Please give us some signals References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: DL4YHF@aol.com wrote: > As we all desperately seeking for the ultimate miracle antenna, couldn't you > convince the EH guy to offer his wonder thing for a bargain price to the LF > community ? Hi Wolf and the group, I asked those guys what their computations would give for an EH antenna for 137 kHz... The answer was that the diameter would have to be a bit less than one meter, but the length around 17 meters .... this for a computed (by them) efficiency of greater than 90 %... I imagine what my neighbours would think of me should I erect such a monster in my backyard... so, even if the EH antenna were a serious thing, that would not be a viable solution for many. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21418 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 20:19:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 20:19:23 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23097 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 20:19:23 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 20:19:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VI6L-0000Xb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 20:10:01 +0000 Received: from smtp3.libero.it ([193.70.192.53]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VI6J-0000XC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 20:09:59 +0000 Received: from ath650.libero.it (151.25.152.170) by smtp3.libero.it (6.0.032) id 3BD43E25025D2BB5 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 21:08:59 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020128204859.06249ab0@pop.tiscalinet.it> X-Sender: IK1ODO@popmail.libero.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 21:08:51 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Marco Bruno" Subject: LF: Luxembourg effect - from RSGB_LF, 1998 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060500000001030405030801" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060500000001030405030801 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, I retrieved some messages by Peter Bobek, Andre' Kesteloot, Peter Martinez, Johan Bodin, and Dave G3YMC from August- September 1998 talking about the Luxembourg effect. Then I zipped them to shorten the message. I counted about 120 messages in my archive of RSGB_LF_GROUP containing "Luxembourg". Probably not all the current subscribers to this list were there three years ago, so I hope this may be useful. [to read the discussions dating back to 1998 about spurious signals and Loran-C lines was quite interesting. If someone wants the full collection of RSGB_LF from Aug, 1998 please let me know !] 73 - Marco IK1ODO --------------060500000001030405030801 Content-Type: application/zip; name="luxembourg.zip" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="luxembourg.zip" UEsDBBQAAAAIAJCoPCzAOb5l6hMAAFc0AAAOAAAAbHV4ZW1ib3VyZy50eHTtW2tz20aW/a4q /Ye2qrYiJSTC96OScUzrYXMtyV5LjjOVSqWaQJPsEYBm0IBo+h/vH9jPe+7tBghScpxNMrNb qfVUKRIBdt++r3PuvT2HB4cHZzJX4nZZNERnKCbFQrTH4xF+tLq9rmi2eq3W4cFFZhJxNEmj 7D/FK2VzFRuTH4lv5Z3749lMxbHMY5nmOgxSlT89PPiheSV1rDJxZT5qPBW9oNURP6r0p9Pm 2XRyKcTxe51e334j3p0cHlxNr86b36vMapOKdoA9b43I7GL2czz/eZGZYvVsFsvwzi6VWgUm WzTE5Ort5EzcytBY8W1O/3kmk0xG9BT73xSzf6gwF2+VuLwQN3qRytgKmUbi3uhQWXHc7o6C sbh7+RH7v1VzlamUPv+WFNAadYbtYX/w89Vpp9kfjk+bw+ed02ehSVaFVdm9CvArdjk1aa7S vHm7WSmRqw/516tY6vQbES5lZlX+t8I2pQ21rr2aydRit+Z5GppIpwsxnOkcAqs0grrMOsWz Xzv64cGbTIUqInHFrIjvSPxVvGl+RmVkk3fTs0vRj9SgO+yO1azdnnfmw7mSCsoYy7nqR7PR 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excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 19:28:52 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6038 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 19:28:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 19:28:54 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VHME-0000P2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 19:22:22 +0000 Received: from mail-4.tiscalinet.it ([195.130.225.150] helo=mail.tiscalinet.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VHMC-0000Op-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 19:22:21 +0000 Received: from orion.pii.net (62.11.71.52) by mail.tiscalinet.it (5.5.053) id 3C04C11001934252 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 20:20:48 +0100 Received: (from clapo@localhost) by orion.pii.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id UAA00671 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 20:30:52 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on Linux X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-reply-to: Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 20:30:52 +0100 (CET) From: "Claudio" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Re: Please give us some signals Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: HI Wolf, I extimated that an EH antenna for 136 kHz may have about 5 meters of diameter, if this giant tank irradiate RF in the space is another question. 73 de Claudio, IK2PII On 28-Jan-02 DL4YHF@aol.com wrote: > Hello Alberto, > > Thanks for the report about the hamfest near Milano. > As we all desperately seeking for the ultimate miracle antenna, couldn't you > convince the EH guy to offer his wonder thing for a bargain price to the LF > community ? > I'd prefer the 2-meter long broomstick covering 135..138 kHz with no need to > retune, efficiency >= 90%, poynting vector built into a plexiglass tube at > the bottom, and a flux compensator at the top. Any offers welcome.... > > Apart from that: The QRM here was also quite heavy here in northern DL, but > good enough for a Jason QSO with Dave G3YXM. > Now we are looking forward for an opportunity to demonstrate Jason's > capabilities for real weak signal work ! Perhaps with an EH antenna fed with > a few microwatts from the TX mixer ? ;-) > > 73 Wolf DL4YHF. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Claudio Pozzi http://www.qsl.net/ik2pii happy Linux user E-Mail: Claudio Date: 28-Jan-02 Time: 20:28:15 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17147 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 19:28:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 19:28:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 14711 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 19:28:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 19:28:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VHLv-0000Ov-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 19:22:03 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VHLt-0000Oq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 19:22:02 +0000 Received: from host213-122-54-104.btinternet.com ([213.122.54.104] helo=presario-1920) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16VHKv-0002vp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 19:21:02 +0000 From: "John W Gould" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Re: AW: Strange signal on 135 kHz... Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 19:22:44 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <16VFzz-0ZnemOC@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit I couldn't find the e-mail from Andre', but I have found a very detailed explaination put forward by Peter, G3PLX, when the topic was discussed on this list in 1998. This e-mail is on an earlier mail application that I am currently using, so I have had to copy and paste. Attached is a more recent e-mail from Markus, DF6NM, on the subject. 73 John, G3WKL >From Peter Martinez G3PLX Kendal Cumbria (1st Sept 1998) I listened to 139 kHz last night too, with a separate BC receiver to check the identity of any crossmod. For me, there were at least two programs audible. I identified one as France Entere (Is that how you spell it?) on 162 kHz. There was another with a very characteristic Interval signal consisting of a two-note rising-third (musical notes B and E), but I couldn't find the source of it on the LW band or MW bands during the 5 minutes it was sending this up to 2100utc. The theory of D-layer modulation which results in this effect needs the D-layer electron temperature to change in sympathy with the AM modulation. The thermal time-constant of the D-layer varies, but is about 60uS at a height of 75km and 600uS at a height of 85km. This should mean that as the night approaches and the reflection height increases, the cross-modulation should get progressively more ""top-cut" to it. 600uS means a 3dB top-cut of about 260Hz. I wonder if anyone is getting a strong enough cross-modulation audio to tell if it does have this "top-cut" effect and if it varies during the evening? The cross-modulation may be 180 degrees out of phase with the original audio at the point in the D-layer where the effect occurs, but the signal from the original transmitter, if it's a medium-wave one, will probably arrive by E and F layer at night, a longer path than the LF transmitter via the D-layer (at about 90km height). There will probably be two other effects which will swing the phase of the cross-modulation. The D-layer modulation will probably have a phase-modulation component itself, and in addition, since there will be a lot of surface-wave from the 139 kHz signal, the resultant received signal will arrive by two paths and so the cross-mmodulation may even be phase-modulated or end up in phase with the priginal audio. I plan to try using the stereo DSP here to study this. It should be possible to integrate-up the faint effect and cancel out the noise and static over a period of time. There is no severe frequency stability problem doing this as there was integrating the LORAN noise. The wobble on the 183kHz transmitter is a burst of +/-90 degree phase modulation sending a 24-bit 010101 pattern at 125 bauds, repeated at intervals of 192mS. My guess is that it's a test pattern intended to see if listeners are disturbed by it, preparatory to introducing a data broadcast on it, as is done on several other LW broadcasts. On these others, the phase deviation is usually only 30 degrees. 73 Peter -----Original Message----- From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf Of jannsen Sent: Monday, January 28, 2002 17:55 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: AW: Strange signal on 135 kHz... Marco Bruno schrieb: > The interfering station will be different for every listener, since it > depends on the geometry of the phenomenon... it was widely > discussed on this reflector at the origins (three years ago...?) > when we were not sure it was Luxembourg effect; at the time > I presumed it was a defective emission from Europe 2 near > Saarbrucken on 183 kHz or so. > > The modulation is wide, distorted and lacking high frequencies > because of the thermal time constant of the ionosphere... a curious > thing, that confirms that you are not hearing a spurious emission. > Also, at times more than one station may be received. > > I may forward the relevant messages to anyone interested; I > remember a very good explanation by Andre' Kesteloot. > > 73 - Marco IK1ODO > > > Hi Marco, you are right. here in the northerm part of Germany it is the modulation from the DLF on 153kHz. it is daily abt an hour at sun-set ZOA (maybe at dawn too). Marco, I`m vy interested in that massage from Andre. regards Uwe/dj8wx dj8wx@qsl.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27847 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 18:59:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 18:59:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23577 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 18:59:16 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 18:59:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VGw2-0000GQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 18:55:18 +0000 Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VGvy-0000GD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 18:55:14 +0000 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.26.) id l.146.889313b (4249) for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 13:54:05 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <146.889313b.2986f84c@aol.com> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 13:54:04 EST Subject: LF: Re: PSK31 modulation (was: Jason Tests / PSK31) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello David, Jim and group,

As G0MRF wrote:
> With half the supply rail (lets say 6 Volts) on the pin, the RF output is zero.
> As the voltage is increased towards 12V the output increases in proportion.
> If the voltage is decreased from 6V towards zero then the RF output also increases
> in proportion, but with the opposite phase.

> So 6V = no output.
>  > 6 V =  phase 0 degrees
>  < 6V  =  -180 degrees


Thanks for the explanation David. I have already sent Jim the information about a new 'two channel' output for PSKxx (implemented in Spectrum Lab) which uses the soundcard for this:
Left channel = Standard PSK signal with phase modulation and envelope shaping
Right channel = On/Off-keyed "audio carrier", ON for 180°, OFF for 0°
The AF carrier is required because the soundcard's output is not "DC" coupled.

I hope with two rectifier diodes and a simple lowpass filter, these signals are sufficient to drive Jim's transmitter for PSK31 with amplitude shaping. If not, the program could be easily adapted to produce different audio amplitudes similiar to the scheme you described.
So, if someone wants to try this with the  SM6LKM/G0MRF DDS board just ask for an update.

> A potentially good idea when we designed it, but lacking an application.

  Maybe there's an application soon.

73 Wolf  DL4YHF.


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3440 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 18:58:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 18:58:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23140 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 18:58:47 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 18:58:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VGw2-0000GO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 18:55:18 +0000 Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VGvz-0000GF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 18:55:16 +0000 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.26.) id l.e.193063f9 (4249) for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 13:54:06 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 13:54:06 EST Subject: LF: Re: Please give us some signals To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Alberto,

Thanks for the report about the hamfest near Milano.
As we all desperately seeking for the ultimate miracle antenna, couldn't you convince the EH guy to offer his wonder thing for a bargain price to the LF community ?
I'd prefer the 2-meter long broomstick covering 135..138 kHz with no need to retune, efficiency >= 90%,  poynting vector built into a plexiglass tube at the bottom, and a flux compensator at the top. Any offers welcome....

Apart from that: The QRM here was also quite heavy here in northern DL, but good enough for a Jason QSO with Dave G3YXM.
Now we are looking forward for an opportunity to demonstrate Jason's capabilities for real weak signal work ! Perhaps with an EH antenna fed with a few microwatts from the TX mixer ? ;-)

73 Wolf  DL4YHF. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24459 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 18:57:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 18:57:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 5264 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 18:57:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 18:57:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VGs9-0000Fk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 18:51:17 +0000 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VGs8-0000Ff-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 18:51:16 +0000 Received: from [212.1.158.35] (helo=g4jnt) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 16VGjE-00021t-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 18:42:05 +0000 Message-ID: <001c01c1a82c$ad32cea0$239e01d4@g4jnt> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Frequency standards for LF. The next g eneration Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 18:50:30 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Yes, possibly. But reception of MSF here is marred by local interference which kills the ability to keep to much better than 10^-9 even with a very narrow PLL. Trying to use the 1PPS output, which requires reception in a significantly wider bandwidth would give quite bad jitter which would kill the frequency locked loop I am using. A conventional PLL would do this a lot better, but we would necessarily have to go to ultra narrow bandwidths, so requiring lock up times measured in days. Also, the delay inherent in any commercial MSF receiver will upset its use for accurate UTC determination for signalling. With GPS you know that the rising edge of the pulse is within a microsecond of UTC anywhere in the world. A GPS receiver is such a universally useful piece of kit to have in the shack, that once you have one you'll wonder how you ever managed time and freqeuncy calibration before ! Andy G4JNT -----Original Message----- From: Stewart Bryant To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 28 January 2002 17:23 Subject: Re: LF: Frequency standards for LF. The next g eneration >Andy > >Maybe I am missing something here, (and I am certainly not trying >to detract from an excellent piece of work) but couldn't you also take >the one second markers from MSF using an AM receiver, and drive >your circuit with that? > >Related to that you might also be able to source the 1 sec pulses >from a partially dissassembled MSF (or DCF77) clock. > >Thanks & 73 > >Stewart G3YSX > >Talbot Andrew wrote: > >> Looking at frequency standards for LF, the requirements are slightly >> different than for the higher frequencies. For microwaves, where >> instantaneous frequency (over a few seconds) needs to be very good to avoid >> chirp on SSB or CW, a high stability oscillator has to be used as part of >> the Phase Locked Loop, locked to a master reference source. The master >> source can be off air such as Droitwich or TV Sync pulses in which case loop >> bandwidths can be made wide enough that lockup to a few parts in 10^-9 is >> possible in minutes. Both these are very good in the short term, but may >> have glitches or anomalies if relied on for hours at a time. Another >> standard in use is that by Brooks Shera that locks a high quality VCXO to >> 1PPS from a GPS receiver - requiring hours to lock up and a very good VCXO. >> In all cases long term accuracy is that of the standard used - typically >> parts in 10^-10 or better. Designs for all these have appeared in Amateur >> publications over the last few years. >> >> For LF, however, particularly where we are integrating over many seconds >> worth of data, the requirement for short term stability goes away, provided >> this period is significantly shorter than the signalling interval; long term >> stability is now even more important. So the requirement for the high >> stability VCXO has gone, and all we need is a locking scheme that can >> maintain phase to within a few degrees over a few seconds, and in the long >> term remain perfectly locked to the master reference without cycle slippage. >> >> Here a GPS receiver really excells itself. Rather than try to phase lock an >> oscilltor at a 1Hz reference frequency which would lead to inordinately long >> lockup times, I have used a frequency locked loop, based very roughly on the >> old Huff & Puff stabiliser published in the 1970s. A sort of H & P >> stabiliser Mark 3. >> >> The idea is this : >> >> A VCXO runs at any frequency that is an exact multiple of 1Hz (I use >> 4.194304MHz ). This directly clocks an 8 bit synchronous counter made up of >> 74HC161 chips. The outputs of this are connected to an 8 bit latch, >> 74HC374, and the 1 Pulse per Second signal from a GPS receiver module >> latches the count once per second. The latch outputs then contain the >> counter contents, updated very second. For frequencies that are an exact >> multiple of 256Hz, the reading should therefore not change. For frequencies >> that are not an exact multiple of 256, the count will increment each second >> by (Frequency MOD 2565). If the frequency deviates slightly from its >> correct value, the count will increment each second by 1 for every 1Hz in >> error. By not resetting the counter, as is done in normal frequency >> counters, the effect is more of a phase detector than a frequency counter as >> any error leads to a cumulatively increasing count. >> >> A PIC interrupted by the 1 PPS signal then reads this latched figure, and >> calculates the error from a nominal mid value of 128. Using a PIC here >> allows a calculation to be made for any frequency, not just a multiple of >> 256Hz. The direction and magnitude of the error count is then used to >> drive a charge pump, which in turn drives the varicap diode of the VCXO. >> The effect is to keep the VCXO precisely locked in the long term to the GPS >> signal, although in the short term it's instantaneous phase is jittering, >> and therefore the frequency is shifting by a Hz or two every second. By >> apropriate choice of charge pump R/C values, the jitter can be minimised. >> When this source is subsequently divided down to LF, the phase shift is >> reduced by the division factor. The PIC includes an initiallisation >> routine to force the charge pump to a mid voltage, which is close to that >> needed for zero frequency error, so the loop can lock up in less than five >> minutes. In comparison, a conventional PLL with 1Hz reference would needs >> over 20 minutes even if the capacitor can be precharged AND the two pulse >> edges forced into synchronisation by allowing the GPS to reset the divider. >> >> Results so far are encouraging. The residual phase blip when divided down >> from 4.194..MHz to 137kHz is about 10 - 20 degrees over a 1s period, and >> when averaged out over a typical 30s signalling period amounts to less than >> 1 degree overall. Long term, when compared locally to other frequency >> standards available(Caesium, Droitwich, TV Sync) there is no overall phase >> shift of the 137kHz signal visible after many hours of monitoring, other >> than the propagation effects of the latter two standards themselves. >> >> A GPS receiver may seem an extravagance, but its value for LF signalling >> will be immense ! As well as providing the ultimate long term accuracy for >> frequency, by timing PSK signalling to GPS pulses as well, the requirement >> for data clock recovery is removed, so gaining many potential dB's in S/N >> capability. By defining the starting phase as being at particular time, >> even the requirement for differential coding has gone, immediately giving a >> factor of two reduction in error rate and removing the threshold effect wrt. >> S/N seen with differential coding. >> >> A GPS receiver also makes an ideal instrument for general purpose frequency >> measurements (use it to drive a frequency counter) and a time standard as >> well as giving your location ! >> >> For anyone who wants to have a go and duplicate the design, I will supply a >> copy of the circuit, a PCB layout and the PIC software on request. There >> may be a bit of a delay however, as the design was only 'frozen' this >> weekend and easy-to-read documentation is almost non existant at the moment >> ! TAPR still market the Garmin GPS25 receiver module as far as I know, see >> their web at www.tapr.org >> >> (4.194304 MHz was used as it allows a DDS to generate any frequency that is >> an exact multiple of 1 Hz without any rounding errors. Which is not the >> case for 5 or 10MHz references !) >> >> Andy G4JNT >> >> -- >> The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence >> is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). >> For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, >> or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is >> prohibited and may be unlawful. > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24618 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 18:51:06 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 18:51:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16829 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 18:50:59 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 18:50:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VGmL-0000El-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 18:45:17 +0000 Received: from tomts6.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.26] helo=tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VGmK-0000Eg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 18:45:16 +0000 Received: from server1.sympatico.ca ([209.226.189.119]) by tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020128184416.CQTU28043.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1.sympatico.ca>; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 13:44:16 -0500 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020128133318.00b23ec0@POP2.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1aemm59@POP2.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 13:44:18 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Larry Kayser" Subject: Re: LF: Frequency standards for LF. The next g eneration Cc: "PLX \(E-mail\)" In-reply-to: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9983@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.go v.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andy: First, my thanks for not choosing a signal reference that is Eurocentric, DCF77, MSF etc. That is appreciated very much. Clarification. What you have done is taken a crystal 4.1.... MHz, that is in fact 2^22, and made it into a VXO that is locked to the GPS. This 4 +Delta frequency is to be used as a reference for a DDS, say the AD9850. The end result is a time and frequency coherency traceable to GPS. I have the 9850 here making BPSK now, so all we would need is to be able to most efficiently demodulate the BPSK to have a most efficiently possible system that should take us a few more dB into the noise. This I am interested in very much. Fabricating PC boards here is an extreme pain, but if your up to it, please let me have a look to see what would be involved. I will not be transmitting from here for a while, until I can get up the tower and re-string the LF antenna and the new top hat wires. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6925 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 18:02:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 18:02:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11310 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 18:02:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 18:02:12 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VG0w-00007c-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 17:56:18 +0000 Received: from mailout10.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.21]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VG0v-00007X-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 17:56:17 +0000 Received: from fwd07.sul.t-online.de by mailout10.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16VG07-0005T5-04; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 18:55:27 +0100 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.157.50.3]) by fwd07.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16VFzz-0ZnemOC; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 18:55:19 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020128134705.01d300c0@pop.tiscalinet.it> Subject: Re: LF: Re: AW: Strange signal on 135 kHz... X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 18:55:19 +0100 Message-ID: <16VFzz-0ZnemOC@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Marco Bruno schrieb: > The interfering station will be different for every listener, since it > depends on the geometry of the phenomenon... it was widely > discussed on this reflector at the origins (three years ago...?) > when we were not sure it was Luxembourg effect; at the time > I presumed it was a defective emission from Europe 2 near > Saarbrucken on 183 kHz or so. > > The modulation is wide, distorted and lacking high frequencies > because of the thermal time constant of the ionosphere... a curious > thing, that confirms that you are not hearing a spurious emission. > Also, at times more than one station may be received. > > I may forward the relevant messages to anyone interested; I > remember a very good explanation by Andre' Kesteloot. > > 73 - Marco IK1ODO > > > Hi Marco, you are right. here in the northerm part of Germany it is the modulation from the DLF on 153kHz. it is daily abt an hour at sun-set ZOA (maybe at dawn too). Marco, I`m vy interested in that massage from Andre. regards Uwe/dj8wx dj8wx@qsl.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27935 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 17:51:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 17:51:05 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1154 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 17:51:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 17:51:06 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VFr2-00005C-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 17:46:04 +0000 Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.101]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VFr0-000054-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 17:46:03 +0000 Received: from northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (northrelay01.pok.ibm.com [9.117.200.21]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAB320088 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 12:41:33 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss3.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.68]) by northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0SHiXv162640 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 12:44:35 -0500 Message-ID: <3C558DEA.3E56D04C@usa.net> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 18:44:10 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Frequency standards for LF. The next generation References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9983@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> <3C558411.8C3FA7AF@virgin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Stewart Bryant wrote: > Maybe I am missing something here, (and I am certainly not trying > to detract from an excellent piece of work) but couldn't you also take > the one second markers from MSF using an AM receiver, and drive > your circuit with that? > > Related to that you might also be able to source the 1 sec pulses > from a partially dissassembled MSF (or DCF77) clock. Probably the missing pulse every minute makes things more complicated... But I leave to Andy to give the correct answer. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16815 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 17:16:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 17:16:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1784 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 17:16:12 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 17:16:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VFHU-0008VM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 17:09:20 +0000 Received: from mrwint.cisco.com ([198.135.0.176] helo=cisco.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VFHS-0008VF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 17:09:19 +0000 Received: from virgin.net (altiga-vpn-client-36.cisco.com [10.64.194.36]) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA12449 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 17:07:54 GMT Message-ID: <3C558411.8C3FA7AF@virgin.net> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 17:02:09 +0000 From: "Stewart Bryant" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Frequency standards for LF. The next g eneration References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9983@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andy Maybe I am missing something here, (and I am certainly not trying to detract from an excellent piece of work) but couldn't you also take the one second markers from MSF using an AM receiver, and drive your circuit with that? Related to that you might also be able to source the 1 sec pulses from a partially dissassembled MSF (or DCF77) clock. Thanks & 73 Stewart G3YSX Talbot Andrew wrote: > Looking at frequency standards for LF, the requirements are slightly > different than for the higher frequencies. For microwaves, where > instantaneous frequency (over a few seconds) needs to be very good to avoid > chirp on SSB or CW, a high stability oscillator has to be used as part of > the Phase Locked Loop, locked to a master reference source. The master > source can be off air such as Droitwich or TV Sync pulses in which case loop > bandwidths can be made wide enough that lockup to a few parts in 10^-9 is > possible in minutes. Both these are very good in the short term, but may > have glitches or anomalies if relied on for hours at a time. Another > standard in use is that by Brooks Shera that locks a high quality VCXO to > 1PPS from a GPS receiver - requiring hours to lock up and a very good VCXO. > In all cases long term accuracy is that of the standard used - typically > parts in 10^-10 or better. Designs for all these have appeared in Amateur > publications over the last few years. > > For LF, however, particularly where we are integrating over many seconds > worth of data, the requirement for short term stability goes away, provided > this period is significantly shorter than the signalling interval; long term > stability is now even more important. So the requirement for the high > stability VCXO has gone, and all we need is a locking scheme that can > maintain phase to within a few degrees over a few seconds, and in the long > term remain perfectly locked to the master reference without cycle slippage. > > Here a GPS receiver really excells itself. Rather than try to phase lock an > oscilltor at a 1Hz reference frequency which would lead to inordinately long > lockup times, I have used a frequency locked loop, based very roughly on the > old Huff & Puff stabiliser published in the 1970s. A sort of H & P > stabiliser Mark 3. > > The idea is this : > > A VCXO runs at any frequency that is an exact multiple of 1Hz (I use > 4.194304MHz ). This directly clocks an 8 bit synchronous counter made up of > 74HC161 chips. The outputs of this are connected to an 8 bit latch, > 74HC374, and the 1 Pulse per Second signal from a GPS receiver module > latches the count once per second. The latch outputs then contain the > counter contents, updated very second. For frequencies that are an exact > multiple of 256Hz, the reading should therefore not change. For frequencies > that are not an exact multiple of 256, the count will increment each second > by (Frequency MOD 2565). If the frequency deviates slightly from its > correct value, the count will increment each second by 1 for every 1Hz in > error. By not resetting the counter, as is done in normal frequency > counters, the effect is more of a phase detector than a frequency counter as > any error leads to a cumulatively increasing count. > > A PIC interrupted by the 1 PPS signal then reads this latched figure, and > calculates the error from a nominal mid value of 128. Using a PIC here > allows a calculation to be made for any frequency, not just a multiple of > 256Hz. The direction and magnitude of the error count is then used to > drive a charge pump, which in turn drives the varicap diode of the VCXO. > The effect is to keep the VCXO precisely locked in the long term to the GPS > signal, although in the short term it's instantaneous phase is jittering, > and therefore the frequency is shifting by a Hz or two every second. By > apropriate choice of charge pump R/C values, the jitter can be minimised. > When this source is subsequently divided down to LF, the phase shift is > reduced by the division factor. The PIC includes an initiallisation > routine to force the charge pump to a mid voltage, which is close to that > needed for zero frequency error, so the loop can lock up in less than five > minutes. In comparison, a conventional PLL with 1Hz reference would needs > over 20 minutes even if the capacitor can be precharged AND the two pulse > edges forced into synchronisation by allowing the GPS to reset the divider. > > Results so far are encouraging. The residual phase blip when divided down > from 4.194..MHz to 137kHz is about 10 - 20 degrees over a 1s period, and > when averaged out over a typical 30s signalling period amounts to less than > 1 degree overall. Long term, when compared locally to other frequency > standards available(Caesium, Droitwich, TV Sync) there is no overall phase > shift of the 137kHz signal visible after many hours of monitoring, other > than the propagation effects of the latter two standards themselves. > > A GPS receiver may seem an extravagance, but its value for LF signalling > will be immense ! As well as providing the ultimate long term accuracy for > frequency, by timing PSK signalling to GPS pulses as well, the requirement > for data clock recovery is removed, so gaining many potential dB's in S/N > capability. By defining the starting phase as being at particular time, > even the requirement for differential coding has gone, immediately giving a > factor of two reduction in error rate and removing the threshold effect wrt. > S/N seen with differential coding. > > A GPS receiver also makes an ideal instrument for general purpose frequency > measurements (use it to drive a frequency counter) and a time standard as > well as giving your location ! > > For anyone who wants to have a go and duplicate the design, I will supply a > copy of the circuit, a PCB layout and the PIC software on request. There > may be a bit of a delay however, as the design was only 'frozen' this > weekend and easy-to-read documentation is almost non existant at the moment > ! TAPR still market the Garmin GPS25 receiver module as far as I know, see > their web at www.tapr.org > > (4.194304 MHz was used as it allows a DDS to generate any frequency that is > an exact multiple of 1 Hz without any rounding errors. Which is not the > case for 5 or 10MHz references !) > > Andy G4JNT > > -- > The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence > is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). > For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, > or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is > prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18591 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 15:24:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 15:24:48 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 20321 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 15:24:50 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 15:24:50 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VDYg-0008FE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 15:18:58 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VDYf-0008F7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 15:18:57 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id PAA06170; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 15:28:10 GMT Received: (qmail 24646 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 16:06:32 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 16:06:32 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id PAA15937; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 15:35:02 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma015935; Mon, 28 Jan 02 15:35:02 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id ; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 15:25:07 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 15:18:08 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9983@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: "LF Group \(E-mail\)" Cc: "PLX \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: Frequency standards for LF. The next g eneration Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 15:17:50 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Looking at frequency standards for LF, the requirements are slightly different than for the higher frequencies. For microwaves, where instantaneous frequency (over a few seconds) needs to be very good to avoid chirp on SSB or CW, a high stability oscillator has to be used as part of the Phase Locked Loop, locked to a master reference source. The master source can be off air such as Droitwich or TV Sync pulses in which case loop bandwidths can be made wide enough that lockup to a few parts in 10^-9 is possible in minutes. Both these are very good in the short term, but may have glitches or anomalies if relied on for hours at a time. Another standard in use is that by Brooks Shera that locks a high quality VCXO to 1PPS from a GPS receiver - requiring hours to lock up and a very good VCXO. In all cases long term accuracy is that of the standard used - typically parts in 10^-10 or better. Designs for all these have appeared in Amateur publications over the last few years. For LF, however, particularly where we are integrating over many seconds worth of data, the requirement for short term stability goes away, provided this period is significantly shorter than the signalling interval; long term stability is now even more important. So the requirement for the high stability VCXO has gone, and all we need is a locking scheme that can maintain phase to within a few degrees over a few seconds, and in the long term remain perfectly locked to the master reference without cycle slippage. Here a GPS receiver really excells itself. Rather than try to phase lock an oscilltor at a 1Hz reference frequency which would lead to inordinately long lockup times, I have used a frequency locked loop, based very roughly on the old Huff & Puff stabiliser published in the 1970s. A sort of H & P stabiliser Mark 3. The idea is this : A VCXO runs at any frequency that is an exact multiple of 1Hz (I use 4.194304MHz ). This directly clocks an 8 bit synchronous counter made up of 74HC161 chips. The outputs of this are connected to an 8 bit latch, 74HC374, and the 1 Pulse per Second signal from a GPS receiver module latches the count once per second. The latch outputs then contain the counter contents, updated very second. For frequencies that are an exact multiple of 256Hz, the reading should therefore not change. For frequencies that are not an exact multiple of 256, the count will increment each second by (Frequency MOD 2565). If the frequency deviates slightly from its correct value, the count will increment each second by 1 for every 1Hz in error. By not resetting the counter, as is done in normal frequency counters, the effect is more of a phase detector than a frequency counter as any error leads to a cumulatively increasing count. A PIC interrupted by the 1 PPS signal then reads this latched figure, and calculates the error from a nominal mid value of 128. Using a PIC here allows a calculation to be made for any frequency, not just a multiple of 256Hz. The direction and magnitude of the error count is then used to drive a charge pump, which in turn drives the varicap diode of the VCXO. The effect is to keep the VCXO precisely locked in the long term to the GPS signal, although in the short term it's instantaneous phase is jittering, and therefore the frequency is shifting by a Hz or two every second. By apropriate choice of charge pump R/C values, the jitter can be minimised. When this source is subsequently divided down to LF, the phase shift is reduced by the division factor. The PIC includes an initiallisation routine to force the charge pump to a mid voltage, which is close to that needed for zero frequency error, so the loop can lock up in less than five minutes. In comparison, a conventional PLL with 1Hz reference would needs over 20 minutes even if the capacitor can be precharged AND the two pulse edges forced into synchronisation by allowing the GPS to reset the divider. Results so far are encouraging. The residual phase blip when divided down from 4.194..MHz to 137kHz is about 10 - 20 degrees over a 1s period, and when averaged out over a typical 30s signalling period amounts to less than 1 degree overall. Long term, when compared locally to other frequency standards available(Caesium, Droitwich, TV Sync) there is no overall phase shift of the 137kHz signal visible after many hours of monitoring, other than the propagation effects of the latter two standards themselves. A GPS receiver may seem an extravagance, but its value for LF signalling will be immense ! As well as providing the ultimate long term accuracy for frequency, by timing PSK signalling to GPS pulses as well, the requirement for data clock recovery is removed, so gaining many potential dB's in S/N capability. By defining the starting phase as being at particular time, even the requirement for differential coding has gone, immediately giving a factor of two reduction in error rate and removing the threshold effect wrt. S/N seen with differential coding. A GPS receiver also makes an ideal instrument for general purpose frequency measurements (use it to drive a frequency counter) and a time standard as well as giving your location ! For anyone who wants to have a go and duplicate the design, I will supply a copy of the circuit, a PCB layout and the PIC software on request. There may be a bit of a delay however, as the design was only 'frozen' this weekend and easy-to-read documentation is almost non existant at the moment ! TAPR still market the Garmin GPS25 receiver module as far as I know, see their web at www.tapr.org (4.194304 MHz was used as it allows a DDS to generate any frequency that is an exact multiple of 1 Hz without any rounding errors. Which is not the case for 5 or 10MHz references !) Andy G4JNT -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13285 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 14:10:33 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 14:10:33 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26470 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 14:10:33 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 14:10:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VCQw-00085i-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 14:06:54 +0000 Received: from [208.50.97.12] (helo=tlvsca.vim.tlt.alcatel.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VCQv-00085d-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 14:06:53 +0000 Received: from tlvk7v (localhost [127.0.0.1]) by tlvsca.vim.tlt.alcatel.it (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA02068 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 15:02:57 +0100 (MET) Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 13:28:21 +0100 From: "Claudio Girardi" Subject: LF: Envelope shaping and class D To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Mailer: Z-Mail Pro 6.2, NetManage Inc. [ZM62_16H] X-Priority: 3 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Well, I may be wrong, but the relationship between duty cycle and fundamental harmonic of a rectangular signal should be of the sin(x) kind ( sin(x)/x should be the relationship between the order of the harmonic and output voltage at the harmonic frequency); I tried once to vary the output voltage of my class D PA varying the drive duty cycle and, to have a straight relation between the DC level and the output, I fed the PWM comparator with a sinewave instead of a triangular wave; the relationship between DC input and duty cycle in this case follow an arcsin(x) law, which compensates the sin(x) between the duty cycle and the ouput voltage. The main problem was that, as pointed out by Johan, at low duty cycles the output waveform was a bit "spikey" and the ouput filter was not able to restore a pure sine wave, maybe also beacause of some feedthrough of the gate drive signal. Claudio, IN3OTD Andy wrote: > Varying the drive duty cycle to change the RF level does not give the result > expected at first sight. While the DC level does vary proportional to the > duty cycle, the RF carrier, which is revealed via the second term of the > Fourier expansion of a rectangular waveform does not. Instead, there is a > SIN(X) / X component in the waveform which gives a horribly non linear > relationship between duty cycle and RF out. It may be possible to > pre-distort the drive waveform to work over a limited range of amplitudes, > but I hate to think what the lookup table would contain ! > The only real way to alter the amplitude is to change the power supply to > the PA stage and a PWM modulator, ie. a switch mode PSU working open loop is > not too complicated a beast to make if it really is necessary to adjust > amplitude. > > But is it really worthwhile going to these lengths just to operate PSK31. > There are several other schemes already in use with equally good signalling > capabiliies that work with constant amplitude - ie JASON, Coherent (by > VE2IQ) and a host of externally synchronised coherent PSK schemes as yet > barely tried. No one has looked at MSK yet either. That is constant > anmmplitude, and with a bit of imagination could be generated from a DDS as > well as from the ubiquitous soundcard. > > Andy G4JNT From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3728 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 13:06:37 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 13:06:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8385 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 13:06:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 13:06:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VBLS-0007ui-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 12:57:10 +0000 Received: from smtp1.libero.it ([193.70.192.51]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VBLR-0007ud-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 12:57:09 +0000 Received: from ath650.libero.it (151.25.147.214) by smtp1.libero.it (6.0.032) id 3BF1798A01E8AF7E for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 13:55:44 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020128134705.01d300c0@pop.tiscalinet.it> X-Sender: IK1ODO@popmail.libero.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 13:55:10 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Marco Bruno" Subject: Re: LF: Re: AW: Strange signal on 135 kHz... In-reply-to: <3C553C12.22797928@usa.net> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 12.54 28/01/02, you wrote: >Gasparik Richard wrote: > > > During the weekend I had a lot of QRM on the band. It looks like > > crossmodulation from AM broadcast. > >Yes, I heard it too. I thought it was caused by the Luxembourg effect, >so didn't give it much attention. But now I will check if the language, >supposing I can hear it clear enough, is something similar to Czech.. >(which translates into checking that for me it is double Dutch...:-) > >73 Alberto I2PHD The interfering station will be different for every listener, since it depends on the geometry of the phenomenon... it was widely discussed on this reflector at the origins (three years ago...?) when we were not sure it was Luxembourg effect; at the time I presumed it was a defective emission from Europe 2 near Saarbrucken on 183 kHz or so. The modulation is wide, distorted and lacking high frequencies because of the thermal time constant of the ionosphere... a curious thing, that confirms that you are not hearing a spurious emission. Also, at times more than one station may be received. I may forward the relevant messages to anyone interested; I remember a very good explanation by Andre' Kesteloot. 73 - Marco IK1ODO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13930 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 12:57:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 12:57:54 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 13284 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 12:57:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 12:57:48 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VBHG-0007uN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 12:52:50 +0000 Received: from e31.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.129]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VBHF-0007uI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 12:52:49 +0000 Received: from westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com [9.99.140.22]) by e31.co.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA17878; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 07:48:44 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss3.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.68]) by westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0SCplY34838; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 05:51:47 -0700 Message-ID: <3C55494A.F2F52FF2@usa.net> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 13:51:22 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Please give us some signals References: <001201c1a6bf$755edc80$05e9fea9@g3aqc> <3C54B92A.31988764@ns.sympatico.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Group, we had two nice days at the hamfest of Novegro, near Milano. Firstly, the weather was good, sunny, not even too cold, about 7 - 8 degrees Celsius. Lot of people at the fair, and to our boot. We were side by side with those demonstrating the first commercial version of the EH antenna, so many of the visitors, after having heard how well it performed, and how it generates the Poynting vector, blatantly defying a couple of Maxwell equations, then came to us asking what those funny shapes on the screen stood for. "Is it PSK31 ?" - "No sir, it is a way of communicating on the LF using very slow CW, with dot length of 3 seconds and more, up to 60" - "Oh, I see.... but why so ? Even Marconi, when he sent his famous three dots, used a faster speed..." At this point, we had two choices : convincing him that he was the perfect buyer for the EH antenna, and that he could not do without one, or starting a long and boring explanation about S/N ratios, frequency analysis, time and resolution dualism, etc. We used one or the other approach after having "smelled" a little who we had in front of us. We hope to have in the two days gained a few new adepts for the "under the noise" world. Time will tell.... The QRN was tremendous... Friday afternoon Claudio IK2PII had installed a loop outside the fair building, in the open, and he told me that evening that the noise level was quite acceptable. Not so on Saturday and Sunday... with hundreds of PCs and monitors switched on, we were unable to copy Giulio IK2DED, who transmitted with 100W from his QTH less than 100km away. So it is remarkable that we copied, Saturday with T report and Sunday with M- report, Laurie G3AQC ! We copied also Valerio IK5ZPV, but his QRO station usually produces an aurally copyable signal at my QTH. To put an end to this long message, we are satisfied of the affluence, and we thank Laurie, Jim, Wolf, Valerio, Cesare, Giulio and in general all those who put a signal on the air during the weekend. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7771 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 12:03:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 12:03:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16280 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 12:03:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 12:03:43 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VAOb-0007ms-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:56:21 +0000 Received: from e31.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.129]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16VAOZ-0007mn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:56:20 +0000 Received: from westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com [9.99.140.22]) by e31.co.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA11524 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 06:52:19 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss3.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.68]) by westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0SBtOY77518 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 04:55:24 -0700 Message-ID: <3C553C12.22797928@usa.net> Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 12:54:59 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: AW: Strange signal on 135 kHz... References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Gasparik Richard wrote: > During the weekend I had a lot of QRM on the band. It looks like > crossmodulation from AM broadcast. Yes, I heard it too. I thought it was caused by the Luxembourg effect, so didn't give it much attention. But now I will check if the language, supposing I can hear it clear enough, is something similar to Czech.. (which translates into checking that for me it is double Dutch...:-) 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21162 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 11:32:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 11:32:20 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 12031 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 11:32:13 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 11:32:13 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16V9xC-0007j5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:28:02 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16V9xB-0007j0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:28:01 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id LAA06909; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:37:14 GMT Received: (qmail 13581 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 12:15:37 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 12:15:37 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id LAA01467; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:44:07 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma001441; Mon, 28 Jan 02 11:43:50 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:33:55 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:26:56 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9982@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Envelope shaping and class D Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:26:42 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Varying the drive duty cycle to change the RF level does not give the result expected at first sight. While the DC level does vary proportional to the duty cycle, the RF carrier, which is revealed via the second term of the Fourier expansion of a rectangular waveform does not. Instead, there is a SIN(X) / X component in the waveform which gives a horribly non linear relationship between duty cycle and RF out. It may be possible to pre-distort the drive waveform to work over a limited range of amplitudes, but I hate to think what the lookup table would contain ! The only real way to alter the amplitude is to change the power supply to the PA stage and a PWM modulator, ie. a switch mode PSU working open loop is not too complicated a beast to make if it really is necessary to adjust amplitude. But is it really worthwhile going to these lengths just to operate PSK31. There are several other schemes already in use with equally good signalling capabiliies that work with constant amplitude - ie JASON, Coherent (by VE2IQ) and a host of externally synchronised coherent PSK schemes as yet barely tried. No one has looked at MSK yet either. That is constant anmmplitude, and with a bit of imagination could be generated from a DDS as well as from the ubiquitous soundcard. Andy G4JNT -----Original Message----- From: Johan Bodin [mailto:sm6lkm.jbeab@swipnet.se] Sent: 28 January 2002 09:11 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Envelope shaping and class D John wrote: > Interesting idea, Johan, but I believe you'll find that if you drive the > amplifiers with a sinewave, there is an efficiency penalty; whereas, if you > drive them with a square wave, you actually have made a PWM modulator. Yes and yes. I meant square wave drive (class D). My idea was to combine the modulator and the P.A. in the same stage. This would eliminate the need for a separate PWM modulator in the P.A. power supply. The switching waveform will look a bit "spikey" at low output power. Worst case is when the output power is close to zero, the signal will look like a train of impulses with alternating polarity. I guess the spectrum will then contain all odd harmonics at the same amplitude as the fundamental, limited only by the switching times. Assuming a Q of 6 in the series resonant output circuit (typical value, I think), this circuit alone would attenuate the 3f component by 24dB. Not too bad. 73 Johan SM6LKM -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14896 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 11:08:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 11:08:04 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15052 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 11:08:04 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 11:08:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16V9Vw-0007dR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 10:59:52 +0000 Received: from gatek.vs.dasa.de ([195.243.118.226]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16V9Vv-0007dM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 10:59:51 +0000 Received: from mailrelay2.vs.dasa.de by gatek.vs.dasa.de via smtpd (for post.thorcom.com [212.172.148.70]) with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 11:00:00 UT Received: from ulm001.sysde.corp (ulm001.sysde.corp [149.207.22.81]) by mailrelay2.vs.dasa.de (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA14274 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:58:31 +0100 (MET) Received: by ulm001.sysde.corp with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) id ; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:58:31 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Koenig, Wolfgang" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: AW: Strange signal on 135 kHz... Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 11:58:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2655.55) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: hallo group, hallo Rich, since a few weeks i have the same problem. am signal from a broadcast station in the upper part of the lf band depending on the daytime. i could not figure out what kind or what country. i tried with bandpass filters, but there was no improvement. my be there is an intermodulation on the tx side. 73 de wolf dl1san -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Gasparik Richard [mailto:Richard.Gasparik@sbs.sk] Gesendet am: Montag, 28. Januar 2002 10:22 An: Rsgb_Lf_Group (E-mail) Betreff: LF: Strange signal on 135 kHz... Hi LF-ers... During the weekend I had a lot of QRM on the band. It looks like crossmodulation from AM broadcast. I switched the radio in AM mode and I have heard Czech Radio 1. This radio is on 270 kHz, but now with very strong wide AM signal on 135 kHz. First I thought that something is wrong with my radio, but I have tested it with lowpass filter and bandpassfilter in front of my receiver. Something has been wrong on the other side. Ruda OK1DTN told me, that he have the same problem. I was nearly unpossible to hear something on 136 kHz. Anybody have the same problem this weekend ? 73 de Rich OM2TW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13862 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 09:32:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 09:32:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 23246 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 09:32:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 09:32:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16V86P-0007Ri-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 09:29:25 +0000 Received: from ananke4.qdnet.pl ([195.116.13.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16V86O-0007Rd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 09:29:24 +0000 Received: from tt ([212.244.254.114]) by ananke4.qdnet.pl with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.1600); Mon, 28 Jan 2002 10:27:28 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c1a7dd$ec8c1920$1400000a@tt> From: "Richard S Hill" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: remove Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 10:26:53 +0100 Organization: translations@qdnet.pl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 28 Jan 2002 09:27:28.0315 (UTC) FILETIME=[00EC50B0:01C1A7DE] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
remove
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2478 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 09:27:30 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 09:27:30 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22708 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 09:27:31 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 09:27:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16V80L-0007Ql-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 09:23:09 +0000 Received: from ns3.swh.sk ([192.108.125.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16V80D-0007Qg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 09:23:02 +0000 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes.swh.sk [192.108.125.60]) by ns3.swh.sk (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0S9Lxa01412 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 10:21:59 +0100 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA23088 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 10:21:50 +0100 (MET) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 10:21:48 +0100 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E0333C1C0@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: Strange signal on 135 kHz... Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 10:21:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi LF-ers... During the weekend I had a lot of QRM on the band. It looks like crossmodulation from AM broadcast. I switched the radio in AM mode and I have heard Czech Radio 1. This radio is on 270 kHz, but now with very strong wide AM signal on 135 kHz. First I thought that something is wrong with my radio, but I have tested it with lowpass filter and bandpassfilter in front of my receiver. Something has been wrong on the other side. Ruda OK1DTN told me, that he have the same problem. I was nearly unpossible to hear something on 136 kHz. Anybody have the same problem this weekend ? 73 de Rich OM2TW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10062 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 09:18:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 09:18:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 14785 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 09:18:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 09:18:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16V7qj-0007Ol-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 09:13:13 +0000 Received: from fep01.swip.net ([130.244.199.129] helo=fep01-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16V7qi-0007Og-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 09:13:12 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.101.40.162]) by fep01-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020128091222.NFJJ21738.fep01-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 10:12:22 +0100 Message-ID: <00a601c1a7db$f9beec00$a22865d5@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <89.1292de2e.2985b417@aol.com> Subject: Re: LF: Envelope shaping and class D Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 10:10:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John wrote: > Interesting idea, Johan, but I believe you'll find that if you drive the > amplifiers with a sinewave, there is an efficiency penalty; whereas, if you > drive them with a square wave, you actually have made a PWM modulator. Yes and yes. I meant square wave drive (class D). My idea was to combine the modulator and the P.A. in the same stage. This would eliminate the need for a separate PWM modulator in the P.A. power supply. The switching waveform will look a bit "spikey" at low output power. Worst case is when the output power is close to zero, the signal will look like a train of impulses with alternating polarity. I guess the spectrum will then contain all odd harmonics at the same amplitude as the fundamental, limited only by the switching times. Assuming a Q of 6 in the series resonant output circuit (typical value, I think), this circuit alone would attenuate the 3f component by 24dB. Not too bad. 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23297 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 08:58:09 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 08:58:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27704 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 08:58:10 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 08:58:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16V7UZ-0007Ks-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 08:50:19 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16V7UY-0007Kl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 08:50:18 +0000 Received: from blanch.pncl.co.uk (95.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.95]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g0S8nOJ07757 for ; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 08:49:24 GMT Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020128084847.00a276c0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 28 Jan 2002 08:50:08 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: Jason Tx MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Nick, Can now transmit Jason test sigs on request. Let me know. Waltyer G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25385 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 00:05:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 00:05:34 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3075 invoked from network); 28 Jan 2002 00:05:33 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jan 2002 00:05:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UzFU-0006Tb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 00:02:12 +0000 Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.39]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UzFT-0006TR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 28 Jan 2002 00:02:11 +0000 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.26.) id l.d6.11498bf0 (4257) for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 19:00:45 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 19:00:45 EST Subject: Re: LF: Jason Tests / PSK31 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 10510 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit In a message dated 1/27/02 4:34:34 PM GMT Standard Time, DL4YHF@aol.com writes:


Hello Jim and David,

I have modified the PSK31 core in Spectrum Lab a bit so it can now produce an on/off keyed "audio carrier" with a few kHz which only needs to be rectified to have the raw phase keying information.

What I did not understand completely is how Jim produces the amplitude shaping. I think the PA supply voltage is variable, but where does the "envelope" signal come from ? One could (with a bit more programming work and more CPU power) deliver the "pulse shaping envelope" on the second channel of a stereo card.

73 Wolf  DL4YHF.




Hello Wolf.

Not sure about Jim's system. Best let him answer.
However, The SM6LKM/G0MRF DDS has an input pin that allows a DC voltage to control the output level and phase. ( A balanced modulator using 2 diodes)
With half the supply rail (lets say 6 Volts) on the pin, the RF output is zero.
As the voltage is increased towards 12V the output increases in proportion.
If the voltage is decreased from 6V towards zero then the RF output also increases in proportion, but with the opposite phase.

So 6V = no output.
> 6 V =  phase 0 degrees
< 6V  =  -180 degrees

A potentially good idea when we designed it, but lacking an application.

Thanks

David  G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5138 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2002 21:44:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Jan 2002 21:44:34 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22137 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2002 21:44:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Jan 2002 21:44:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UwzE-00068e-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 21:37:16 +0000 Received: from smtp1.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.91] helo=mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UwzD-00068Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 21:37:16 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.65.48]) by mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 17:37:48 -0400 Message-ID: <3C54B92A.31988764@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 21:36:27 -0500 From: "john currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re.Please give us some signals References: <001201c1a6bf$755edc80$05e9fea9@g3aqc> Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi all ,  I can no longer do xband QSOs one of my 2 verticals came down.  The only hf  ant left is the vert I use  for 136 listening .  I will look for F6bwo this week and then go to 60 sec dots for rest of night.
    73  de John VE1ZJ

Laurie Mayhead wrote:

Hello Claudio,Glad you saw something of my signal. Tomorrow I will try to run some 30sec DFCW same frequency. Perhaps that will come through better. Have a look at 1100 and 1200utc.  73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7949 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2002 20:07:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Jan 2002 20:07:26 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 2620 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2002 20:07:18 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Jan 2002 20:07:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UvLx-0005wc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 19:52:37 +0000 Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UvLv-0005wU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 19:52:36 +0000 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.26.) id l.89.1292de2e (3844) for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 14:50:47 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <89.1292de2e.2985b417@aol.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 14:50:47 EST Subject: Re: LF: Envelope shaping and class D To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 1/27/02 2:39:19 PM Eastern Standard Time, sm6lkm.jbeab@swipnet.se writes: << Another way to control the output power is to vary the phase of the driving signal to one of the sides of a full bridge amp'. Some kind of variable delay / phase shifter would do the trick. If the two "totem poles" (a word used in the ancient world of TTL logic - meaning two transistors in series between +V and GND) in the bridge are driven in phase, there will be no voltage difference between the "midpoints" - zero output power. If they are driven in antiphase, 180 deg's, like in the Decca (Jeep!?) full output will result. The output power can be set to any convenient value by simply adjusting the phase shift between 0 and 180 deg's. No efficiency penalty and no need for a PWM modulator! >> Interesting idea, Johan, but I believe you'll find that if you drive the amplifiers with a sinewave, there is an efficiency penalty; whereas, if you drive them with a square wave, you actually have made a PWM modulator. 73, John From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9036 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2002 19:52:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Jan 2002 19:52:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 16020 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2002 19:52:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Jan 2002 19:52:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Uuwb-0005uP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 19:26:25 +0000 Received: from fep01.swip.net ([130.244.199.129] helo=fep01-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UuwY-0005uK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 19:26:22 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.101.38.103]) by fep01-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020127192515.LAVA21738.fep01-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 20:25:15 +0100 Message-ID: <00dc01c1a768$6d195a60$172565d5@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <155.7e120f3.2985857a@aol.com> Subject: LF: Envelope shaping and class D Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 20:24:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Wolf DL4YHF wrote: > I think the PA supply voltage is variable, but where does the > "envelope" signal come from ? Another way to control the output power is to vary the phase of the driving signal to one of the sides of a full bridge amp'. Some kind of variable delay / phase shifter would do the trick. If the two "totem poles" (a word used in the ancient world of TTL logic - meaning two transistors in series between +V and GND) in the bridge are driven in phase, there will be no voltage difference between the "midpoints" - zero output power. If they are driven in antiphase, 180 deg's, like in the Decca (Jeep!?) full output will result. The output power can be set to any convenient value by simply adjusting the phase shift between 0 and 180 deg's. No efficiency penalty and no need for a PWM modulator! Any ideas for a digtally (or otherwise) controlled 0-180 phase shifter? 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19478 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2002 16:35:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Jan 2002 16:35:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1412 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2002 16:35:07 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Jan 2002 16:35:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UsEf-0005SA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 16:32:53 +0000 Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.8]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UsEe-0005S5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 16:32:52 +0000 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.26.) id l.155.7e120f3 (4263) for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 11:31:55 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <155.7e120f3.2985857a@aol.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 11:31:54 EST Subject: Re: LF: Jason Tests / PSK31 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Jim and David,

I have modified the PSK31 core in Spectrum Lab a bit so it can now produce an on/off keyed "audio carrier" with a few kHz which only needs to be rectified to have the raw phase keying information.

What I did not understand completely is how Jim produces the amplitude shaping. I think the PA supply voltage is variable, but where does the "envelope" signal come from ? One could (with a bit more programming work and more CPU power) deliver the "pulse shaping envelope" on the second channel of a stereo card.

73 Wolf  DL4YHF. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10189 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2002 16:05:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Jan 2002 16:05:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9812 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2002 16:05:17 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Jan 2002 16:05:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UrkW-0005On-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 16:01:44 +0000 Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.7]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UrkU-0005OW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 16:01:42 +0000 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.26.) id l.11e.acbfbb6 (3846) for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 11:00:42 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <11e.acbfbb6.29857e2a@aol.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 11:00:42 EST Subject: LF: HiTech: DDS controlled via soundcard (crazy idea) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi all,

During a nice QSO in Jason mode today, and thinking about this and that, a crazy idea went through my brain. Maybe it's only good for the waste bin but how about this:

Let the PC produce a digital control word for a DDS  VIA THE SOUNDCARD ?

A DDS like the AD9832 needs a special serial control word, which is generated by a PIC processor in most cases. Three digital lines are required. How about "producing" the control word for the DDS via the SOUNDCARD ? We could either use a stereo output for clock+data (producing digital signals) , a few clamping diodes, two or three transistors and possibly a monoflop for the FSYNC signal (a third control line from PC to PIC). An alternative would be using different levels for the FSYNC, but proper level adjustment and clamping would be required because most audio outputs are only "AC coupled".

Johan (SM6LKM) has written a routine in "C" for PIC controllers which I have adapted to run under DOS, using the parallel port. But it's complicated to do this under windoze, especially if the DDS shall be controlled in a highly "synchronous" way through the parallel port.


What would be the benefit of using the soundcard to drive a DDS ?
- you wouldn't need a programmed PIC processor acting as an interface between PC and DDS.
- you wouldn't need a LPT interface which is tricky to access under Windoze NT + XP.
- you wouldn't need a serial interface which does not exist on some cheap notebooks.
- no need to fool around with USB programming
- The serial control word for the DDS chip can be timed very precisely under windoze. A
continuous output (with update the DDS every 100 ms or so) is possible.


Disadvantages:
- It's not a 'stand-alone' solution. A PC (or at least one of these tiny PDA's) is always needed. But which of the "modern modes" runs without a PC ?
- To implement this, basic knowledge of Windoze API programming is required. But I know at least one other reader of this reflector who has.. ;-)


If this sounds interesting, let me know and I'll do some more "research". The result could be a routine which produces raw 16-bit analogue samples to drive an AD9832 (which is the only DDS I have at the moment).

73,
 Wolf DL4YHF. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24854 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2002 13:45:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Jan 2002 13:45:52 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 12866 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2002 13:45:51 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Jan 2002 13:45:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Upaw-00058z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 13:43:42 +0000 Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Upav-00058u-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 13:43:41 +0000 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.26.) id l.163.7c47e73 (17528) for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 08:42:47 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <163.7c47e73.29855dd6@aol.com> Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 08:42:46 EST Subject: LF: EA8CN To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 10510 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Larry.

Just a quick note to say that I dropped in on Andy EA8CN.  
During our chat he checked his log and found you in it on many occasions.

So....Hello from Andy in Tenerife and I expect you'll end up working him in next weeks marathon.

73

David   G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21770 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2002 13:36:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Jan 2002 13:36:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6149 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2002 13:36:10 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Jan 2002 13:36:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UpPy-00056L-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 13:32:22 +0000 Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UpPx-00056E-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 13:32:21 +0000 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.26.) id l.a3.22ab65a1 (17528) for ; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 08:29:35 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 08:29:34 EST Subject: Re: LF: Jason Tests / PSK31 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 10510 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit In a message dated 1/22/02 4:14:46 PM GMT Standard Time, j.r.moritz@herts.ac.uk writes:


BTW, I think I asked before, but don't recall any responses - can anyone
recommend PSK31 software that has the TX phase keying signal available as a
logic level output? Since my TX will generate BPSK with appropriate
envelope shaping I would like to try this mode; but a sound card output
would be a bit messy - demodulate the audio signal, recover the phase data,
feed into LF TX modulator... a bit of wire would be so much easier!

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU




Hi Jim.

I did try and chase this with some of the PSK31 authors as the SM6LKM/G0MRF DDS has a phase shift input for exactly that application. But in this world of analogue soundcards they thought an output of this type was not required.
It is possible to use some hardware and recover the phase data from the audio envelope, but it's hard work.

Let me know if you have any luck.

David  G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15086 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2002 12:48:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Jan 2002 12:48:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 16053 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2002 12:48:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Jan 2002 12:48:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UoiH-0004zK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 12:47:13 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.81] (helo=tungsten.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UoiG-0004z3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 12:47:12 +0000 Received: from host217-35-35-58.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.35.58] helo=dellboy) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16UogF-0002C3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 12:45:08 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01c1a730$785e4f80$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: F6BWO T/A tests Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 12:45:15 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Dear trans-Atlantic listeners.
 
Jeff, F6BWO will be sending QRSS with 10 second dots on 135.923 for the next week from 2230 to 2330 utc. He will listen on 7025 CW for reports and on his own frequency after ech transmission.
 
73
Dave
G3YXM.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 5749 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2002 12:17:23 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Jan 2002 12:17:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 1895 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2002 12:17:19 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Jan 2002 12:17:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Uo8f-0004vr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 12:10:25 +0000 Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Uo8e-0004vm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 12:10:24 +0000 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 16Uo7q-000CqA-0C for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 12:09:34 +0000 Message-ID: <$gPRUAAO3+U8EwtL@telemetry.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 27 Jan 2002 12:08:46 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: LF: PSU Repair MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 3.05 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LF folk, Does anyone out there have a circuit diagram for a Manson EP925 Power Supply (now known as the Palstar PS30)? This is the 3-15V @ 25/30 amp unit and mine has developed an intermittent fault on the regulator which causes the voltage to wander up and down. 73, Tom G3OLB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28269 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2002 00:28:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Jan 2002 00:28:33 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15601 invoked from network); 27 Jan 2002 00:28:31 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Jan 2002 00:28:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Ud7v-0003tw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 00:24:55 +0000 Received: from tomts12.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.56] helo=tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Ud7t-0003tr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 27 Jan 2002 00:24:53 +0000 Received: from server1.sympatico.ca ([216.208.193.81]) by tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020127002400.FBPP8200.tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1.sympatico.ca> for ; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 19:24:00 -0500 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020126192150.00a611c0@POP2.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1aemm59@POP2.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 19:24:00 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Larry Kayser" Subject: Re: LF: Re: USART in the 16F628 In-reply-to: <000e01c1a6b0$5661f600$3c9e01d4@g4jnt> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------010303070700020605010208" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010303070700020605010208 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 09:28 PM 2002/01/26 +0000, you wrote: >Yes please. I haven't got round to using any of my '628s yet, but had heard a >few vibes that things were not as they seem > >Andy 'JNT > > >I will send any and all who ask a copy of this ASM file, which I happen to > >call PIC8_4B.ASM, configured to run on a 4 MHz crystal or 4 MHz internal > >oscillator by just compiling it with MPASM. It is a great pleasure to be able to send you something Andy.... Larry VA3LK --------------010303070700020605010208 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; name="Pic8_4b.asm" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Pic8_4b.asm" ;****************************************************************************** ;kayser@sympatico.ca LIST p=16F628 ;PICF628 is the target processor ; #include "P16F628.INC" ;Include header file ; ErrorLevel 0 ;0 for Messages, Warnings, Errors ErrorLevel -302 ;1 for Warnings, Errors ;2 for Errors ;-302 to suppress Page Message ; ;enable _hs_osc, _pwrte_on, when programming the device ;****************************************************************************** cblock h'20' ;bank 0 h'20' to h'7f'. 96 locations savew1 ;SAVEW1 *MUST* be at location h'20'! savestatus savepclath savefsr rx_data ;the received byte from the serial UART tx_data ;byte to be transmitted via UART endc ;****************************************************************************** cblock h'A0' ;bank 1 savew2 ;SAVEW2 *MUST* be at location h'A0'. endc ; org h'0000' ;set code origin to beginning of rom start goto initialize ;we must get past interrupt vector at 0004 ; ;INTERRUPT ROUTINE org h'0004' ;interrupt vector location inthandler movwf savew1 ;save w register! (at h'20', h'A0', etc.) movf status,w ;w now has copy of status clrf status ;ensure we are in bank 0 now! movwf savestatus ;save status movf pclath,w ;save pclath movwf savepclath clrf pclath ;explicitly select Page 0 ; movf fsr,w movwf savefsr ;save fsr (just in case) ; vector_to_interrupt ; btfsc intcon,t0if ;test to see which interrupt goto service_t0if ;needs servicing... ; btfsc intcon,intf ;there can be many different sources goto service_intf ;of interrupt... ;add as many checks here as you ;have possible interrupt sources.... ; service_t0if nop ;!!! or do something useful here... ; t0if_done bcf intcon,t0if ;clear interrupt flag that caused interrupt. goto intclean ;restore and return from interrupt! ; service_intf nop ;!!! or do something useful here... ; intf_done bcf intcon,intf ;clear flag that caused interrupt. goto intclean ;restore and return from interrupt! ; intclean movf savefsr,w movwf fsr ;restore fsr ; movf savepclath,w movwf pclath ;restore pclath. (Page=original) ; movf savestatus,w movwf status ;restore status! (bank=original) ; swapf savew1,f ;restore w from *original* bank! swapf savew1,w ;swapf does not affect any flags! ; retfie ;return from interrupt! ;gie is auto-re-enabled. ; initialize ;initialize ports and registers bcf status,rp0 ;first do page 0 stuff. yep, page 0 gie01 bcf intcon,gie ;turn gie off btfsc intcon,gie ;MicroChip recommends this check! goto gie01 ;without this check ;you are not sure gie is cleared! clrf pir1 ;clear peripheral flags ; clrf porta ;clear all i/o registers... clrf portb ; bsf status,rp0 ;allow access to page 1 stuff! ; clrf pie1 ;disable peripheral interrupts ; movlw b'00000110' movwf trisb ;0=output 1=input ; BUT for UART use RB1 and RB2 MUST be programmed as an INPUT! ; bsf option_reg, not_rbpu ;!rbpu! rb_pullup 0=enabled ; 1=disabled. enabling is based on individual ;port-latch values. currently pullups are ;disabled. bsf option_reg, intedg ;intedg 0=inc on falling 1=inc on ; rising edge. <> ;currently set for rising edge detection. bcf option_reg, t0cs ;t0cs timer0clocksource 0=internal clkout ;1=ra4/int. currently set for internal clkout bcf option_reg, t0se ;t0se timer0signaledge 0=inc on rising 1=inc ; on falling edge. ; <> bcf option_reg, psa ;psa prescaler assignment 0=tmr0 1=wdt ;ps2-ps0 determine prescaler rate, which is ;dependent also on whether tmr0 or wdt is ;selected: ;wdt from 0-7 is div by 1 2 4 8 16 32 64 128 ;tmr0 from 0-7 is div by 2 4 8 16 32 64 128 256 ;if wdt is assigned prescaler, then tmr0 is div by 1 ; here we will set prescaler to divide by 16 for tmr0 ; !!! set this any way you want. ; This is just an example that works. bcf option_reg,ps2 ;ps2 bsf option_reg,ps1 ;ps1 bsf option_reg,ps0 ;ps0 ;intcon register: bit assignments ; ;enables... 1=enable 0=disable ;<7>=gie=global_int_enable ;<6>=peie=peripheral_int_enable ;<5>=t0ie=t0_int_enable (enables <2> t0if) ;<4>=inte=int_enable (rb0/int) (enables <1> intf) ;<3>=rbie=rb_int_enable (enables <0> rbif) ; ;intcon flags. software reset. 0=reset 1=flagged ;<2>=t0if=t0_int_flag ;<1>=intf=int_flag (rb0/int) ;<0>=rbif=rb_int_flag (rb7-rb4) clrf intcon ;in this example we have no interrupts used. ; ;pie1 peripheral interrupt enable 1 register: ; bit assignments. 1=enable 0=disable ; ;<7>=pspie=parallel_slave_port_int_enable ;<6>=adie=a/d_int_enable ;<5>=rcie=receiver_int_enable for uart (may use later) ;<4>=txie=transmit_int_enable for uart (may use later) ;<3>=sspie=sync_serial_int_enable ;<2>=ccp1ie=ccp1_int_enable ;<1>=tmr2ie=timer2_int_enable ;<0>=tmr1ie=timer1_int_enable ; clrf pie1 ;no interrupts used in this example ; ;uart specific initialization ;txsta=Transmit STAtus and control register. ;take nothing for granted. bcf txsta,csrc ; <7> (0) don't care in asynch mode bcf txsta,tx9 ; <6> 0 select 8 bit mode bsf txsta,txen ; <5> 1 enable transmit function ; *MUST* be 1 for transmit to work!!! bcf txsta,sync ; <4> 0 asynchronous mode. ; *MUST* be 0 !!! ; If NOT 0 the async mode is NOT selected! ; <3> (0) not implemented bsf txsta,brgh ; <2> 0 disable high baud rate generator !!! ; lsk for 16F628 ; 1 (0) trmt is read only. bcf txsta,tx9d ; <0> (0) tx9d data cleared to 0. ; ; For brgh=0 baudrate=Fosc/(64(spbrg+1)) ; So when brgh=0 spbrg_value = (xtal_freq/(baudrate*d'64'))-1 ; For brgh=1 baudrate=Fosc/(16(spbrg+1)) ; So when brgh=1 spbrg_value = (xtal_freq/(baudrate*d'16'))-1 ; xtal_freq = d'4000000' ;crystal frequency in Hertz. baudrate = d'19200' ;desired baudrate. ; ;now calculate spbrg_value... ;spbrg_value = (xtal_freq/(baudrate*d'64'))-1 spbrg_value = (xtal_freq/(baudrate*d'16'))-1 ; movlw spbrg_value ;set baud rate generator value movwf spbrg ; bcf status,rp0 ;allow access to page 0 stuff again. (normal) ; ;more uart specific initialization ; ;rcsta=ReCeive STAtus and control register ; bsf rcsta,spen ; 7 spen 1=rx/tx set for serial uart mode ; !!! very important to set spen=1 bcf rcsta,rx9 ; 6 rc8/9 0=8 bit mode bcf rcsta,sren ; 5 sren 0=don't care in uart mode bsf rcsta,cren ; 4 cren 1=enable constant reception ;!!! (and low clears errors) ; 3 not used / 0 / don't care bcf rcsta,ferr ; 2 ferr input framing error bit. 1=error ; 1 oerr input overrun error bit. 1=error ;!!! (reset oerr by neg pulse clearing cren) ;you can't clear this bit by using bcf. ;It is only cleared when you pulse cren low. bcf rcsta,rx9d ; 0 rx9d input (9th data bit). ignore. ; ;If you are using a MAX232 that uses ;charge pumping, put a delay routine ;right HERE, a few seconds ; ;we need to initialize some things, so do it here. ; movf rcreg,w ;clear uart receiver movf rcreg,w ; including fifo movf rcreg,w ; which is three deep. ; movlw 0 ;any character will do. movwf txreg ;send out dummy character ; to get transmit flag valid! ; main bsf intcon,gie ;enable interrupts if you are using any! ; loop call ser_in ;get UART input into W and rx_data call transmitw ;send W to the UART transmitter goto loop ;blithely echo characters forever... ;***************************************************************** ;SER_IN ser_in btfsc rcsta,oerr goto overerror ;if overflow error... btfsc rcsta,ferr goto frameerror ;if framing error... uart_ready btfss pir1,rcif goto ser_in ;if not ready, wait... ; uart_gotit bcf intcon,gie ;turn gie off. btfsc intcon,gie goto uart_gotit ; movf rcreg,w ;recover uart data bsf intcon,gie ;re-enable interrupts!! movwf rx_data ;save for later return ; overerror bcf intcon,gie ;turn gie off. btfsc intcon,gie ; goto overerror ; ; bcf rcsta,cren ;pulse cren off... movf rcreg,w ;flush fifo movf rcreg,w ; all three elements. movf rcreg,w bsf rcsta,cren ;turn cren back on. ;this pulsing of cren ;will clear the oerr flag. bsf intcon,gie ;enable interrupts. goto ser_in ;try again... ; frameerror bcf intcon,gie ;turn gie off. btfsc intcon,gie ; goto frameerror ; movf rcreg,w ;reading rcreg clears ferr flag. bsf intcon,gie ;enable interrupts. goto ser_in ;try again... ; ;TRANSMIT subroutine: transmit movf tx_data,w ;copy tx_data to w. transmitw btfss pir1,txif goto transmitw ;wait for transmitter interrupt flag gietx bcf intcon,gie ;disable interrupts btfsc intcon,gie ;making SURE they are disabled! goto gietx movwf txreg ;load data to be sent... bsf intcon,gie ;re-enable interrupts return ; TransWt ; use to ensure that TX buffer is empty bsf STATUS,RP0 TxWt btfss TXSTA,TRMT ; transmission is complete if hi goto TxWt clrf STATUS ; RAM Page 0 return ; ;---------------------------------------------------------------------- end --------------010303070700020605010208-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27473 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2002 23:20:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Jan 2002 23:20:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 18125 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2002 23:20:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Jan 2002 23:20:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Uc3m-0003in-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 23:16:34 +0000 Received: from mail1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.18]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Uc3l-0003ii-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 23:16:33 +0000 Received: from modem-14.ancalagon.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.107.142] helo=g3aqc) by mail1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 16Uc2x-0001DT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 23:15:44 +0000 Message-ID: <001201c1a6bf$755edc80$05e9fea9@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re.Please give us some signals Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 23:15:02 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hello Claudio,
Glad you saw something of my signal. Tomorrow I will try to run some 30sec DFCW same frequency. Perhaps that will come through better. Have a look at 1100 and 1200utc.  73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17056 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2002 21:40:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Jan 2002 21:40:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 10994 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2002 21:40:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Jan 2002 21:40:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UaND-0003YM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 21:28:31 +0000 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UaND-0003YH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 21:28:31 +0000 Received: from [212.1.158.60] (helo=g4jnt) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 16UaEi-0000uK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 21:19:44 +0000 Message-ID: <000e01c1a6b0$5661f600$3c9e01d4@g4jnt> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: USART in the 16F628 Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 21:28:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Yes please. I haven't got round to using any of my '628s yet, but had heard a few vibes that things were not as they seem Andy 'JNT >I will send any and all who ask a copy of this ASM file, which I happen to >call PIC8_4B.ASM, configured to run on a 4 MHz crystal or 4 MHz internal >oscillator by just compiling it with MPASM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2576 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2002 18:38:24 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Jan 2002 18:38:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 12373 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2002 18:38:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Jan 2002 18:38:24 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UXh9-0003Gt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 18:36:55 +0000 Received: from mail4.messagelabs.com ([212.125.75.12]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UXh7-0003Gm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 18:36:54 +0000 X-VirusChecked: Checked Received: (qmail 24545 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2002 18:35:03 -0000 Received: from merimac.us.gases.boc.com (HELO merimac) (204.149.80.4) by server-9.tower-4.messagelabs.com with SMTP; 26 Jan 2002 18:35:03 -0000 Received: by EXC_WIL04 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 13:40:12 -0500 Message-ID: From: "Ashlock,William" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: lowfer@mailman.qth.net Subject: LF: RE: WWVB LF transmitter system Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 13:26:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Geri, Great article! I also thought the WWVB propagation plots were very interesting. The amout of day/night increase in signal depends to a great degree on the distance from the transmitter (farthest being the most dramatic of course), but two listening locations approx the same distance away from the transmitter do not experience the same db increase. We are experiencing some very unusual daytime skip conditions in the 400-500mi range on the Lowfer band right now which may go along with this data. There's also the possibility that my TX loop antenna may take better advantage of these condition - having a much larger range of possible radiation angles to bounce-in on the various receiving sites, compared to a monopole. Have any of you guys experienced these effects? Bill Ashlock Andover, MA, USA BTW: Didn't see any mention of the WWVB ground system used. Any info on this? -----Original Message----- From: 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW [mailto:DK8KW@compuserve.com] Sent: Saturday, January 26, 2002 5:59 AM To: INTERNET:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: WWVB LF transmitter system Hello LF-friends, I think the most interesting aspect about that paper on the WWVB LF article was for me to learn that those guys seemed to have the same problems to find suitable parts as we have. The way they described how the recovered some old coils and litz wire from de-commissioned stations reminded me pretty much of some "expeditions" that were described here on the reflector earlier. Also the problems that changing weather conditions makes re-tuning necessary is something I observe with my small-scale LF station as well. Interesting stuff ... Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) ********************************************************************* This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. ********************************************************************* ********************************************************************* This footnote confirms that this e-mail message has been scanned for the presence of known computer viruses by the MessageLabs Virus Control Centre. However, it is still recommended that you use local virus scanning software to monitor for the presence of viruses. ********************************************************************* From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17432 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2002 18:32:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Jan 2002 18:32:21 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23847 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2002 18:32:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Jan 2002 18:32:20 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UXas-0003FQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 18:30:26 +0000 Received: from mail-1.tiscalinet.it ([195.130.225.147] helo=mail.tiscalinet.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UXar-0003Ex-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 18:30:25 +0000 Received: from orion.pii.net (62.11.67.179) by mail.tiscalinet.it (5.5.053) id 3C35BE2E00A57665; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 19:20:44 +0100 Received: (from clapo@localhost) by orion.pii.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id TAA00242; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 19:29:55 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on Linux X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-reply-to: <001501c1a5d1$01db9440$05e9fea9@g3aqc> Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 19:29:54 +0100 (CET) From: "Claudio" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Re. Please give us some signals Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Laurie. Very high noise floor at Hamfest in Novegro (Milano), I think about 20 dB more noise toward my home. Received your DFCW signal with T report with direct convertion receiver and suned loop antenna. Also copyed IK5ZPF calling CQ in QRSS with strong O signal (as usually!). No signals received from IK2DED. TNX from "Milano LF team": IK2PII (Claudio), I2PHD (Alberto), IK2CZL (Vittorio), I2SG (Gianfranco). Claudio IK2PII On 25-Jan-02 Laurie Mayhead wrote: > Hi Alberto, > I will try some DFCW 10 sec. on 137.682 (close to the top of the DFCW band) > I will look for replies from 137.660 to 137.850. Will try to transmit at > 1100,1200 > 1300,1400 utc. Cannot work any later due to social commitments. 73s Laurie. ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Claudio Pozzi http://www.qsl.net/ik2pii happy Linux user E-Mail: Claudio Date: 26-Jan-02 Time: 19:19:29 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14545 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2002 16:39:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Jan 2002 16:39:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5762 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2002 16:39:38 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Jan 2002 16:39:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UVoo-0002zv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 16:36:42 +0000 Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.100]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UVon-0002zp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 16:36:42 +0000 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.26.) id l.183.2adbb73 (16782) for ; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 11:35:14 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <183.2adbb73.298434c2@aol.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 11:35:14 EST Subject: Re: LF: Please give us some signals... To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi Alberto and group,

I tried to get QRV in Jason from the club station DF0WD this afternoon but only made two "local" QSOs in fast CW with Fabian (DJ1YFK) and Fred (DJ5DI).
Also heard PA0VBR who would have been a new one, but WX conditions got too bad for another contact.
The storm was too heavy for longer transmissions: antenna wire dangling around, SWR running wild, mismatch protection in the TX made the output power go up and down.

If the weather permits  and the antenna still exists, the next test in Jason will be tomorrow afternoon - around 137.52 if the frequency is clear. Only 50 mW ERP in Jason here, but I'm looking forward for my 2nd two-way contact in "V 0.92" mode. Thanks Alberto for the new program, hope you have better WX at your hamfest.

Greetings,
Wolf DL4YHF / DF0WD.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15805 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2002 15:16:11 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Jan 2002 15:16:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27816 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2002 15:16:09 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Jan 2002 15:16:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UUVl-0002r7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 15:12:57 +0000 Received: from tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UUVk-0002r1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 15:12:56 +0000 Received: from server1.sympatico.ca ([216.209.138.103]) by tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020126151201.JQRF24797.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1.sympatico.ca>; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 10:12:01 -0500 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020126100638.00b020c0@POP2.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1aemm59@POP2.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 10:09:52 -0500 To: "Johan Bodin" , "Mitch Powell" , rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Larry Kayser" Subject: LF: USART in the 16F628 In-reply-to: <00d401c1a5a3$a3137c20$9c2465d5@oemcomputer> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020118063454.00a58480@POP2.sympatico.ca> <5.1.0.14.0.20020119154004.00adf750@POP2.sympatico.ca> <5.1.0.14.0.20020124192729.00a65e30@POP2.sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings: I have for some days been struggling with achieving consistent and accurate serial port operation, especially when the Interrupts are being hit at a high rate. The APNOTE from MICROCHIP does not work most of the time and never worked properly. However a fine piece of work by Tom McGahee, PICUART.ASM for the 16C74A should be adaptable to the 16F628. It was adaptable and works like a charm. I have now tried this with the following Oscillator configurations. For the 16F628, the Internal 4 MHz, an external 4 MHz crystal, a 1.8432 MHz crystal and with a high speed 16F628 it ran just fine with a 21.7 MHz crystal. I will send any and all who ask a copy of this ASM file, which I happen to call PIC8_4B.ASM, configured to run on a 4 MHz crystal or 4 MHz internal oscillator by just compiling it with MPASM. I will decline to express my thoughts about Microchip documentation and product support. It is suffice to say that my first copy of CPM-80, the one with both handwritten and typewritten documentation from Gary Kendall about 1976/7 was of higher quality and vastly more accurate than what I have received from Microchip for the 16F628. Larry Kayser VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20136 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2002 14:09:43 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Jan 2002 14:09:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8345 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2002 14:09:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Jan 2002 14:09:43 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UTVG-0002hZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 14:08:22 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UTVF-0002hU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 14:08:21 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16UTUS-0006aK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 14:07:32 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16UTUS-0002wO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 14:07:32 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020126135053.00a7f458@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 14:05:28 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: Please give us some signals... In-reply-to: <3C51EE44.D810069A@usa.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020125181846.00b19d80@gemini.herts.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >Dear Jim and group, > the fair opens at 08:00 UTC and closes at 18:00 UTC both Saturday and >Sunday... Dear LF Group, Unfortunately, a couple of problems have cropped up - First, my antenna has blown down in the gale last night. Not difficult to fix, but ... Second, My brother has invited himself and his wife and some friends to stay at my house for the weekend - no doubt they will call me antisocial If I play with radios! I hope to persuade them all to leave by Sunday afternoon, but I am sorry to say almost definitely no Jason signals tonight - I hope to put some sigs out before Alberto's fair ends tomorrow. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22674 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2002 13:42:29 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Jan 2002 13:42:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18646 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2002 13:42:28 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Jan 2002 13:42:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UT3M-0002cw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 13:39:32 +0000 Received: from tomts17.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.71] helo=tomts17-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UT3L-0002cr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 13:39:31 +0000 Received: from server1.sympatico.ca ([209.226.189.183]) by tomts17-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020126133840.QEDN16289.tomts17-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1.sympatico.ca> for ; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 08:38:40 -0500 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020126083533.00b18d00@POP2.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1aemm59@POP2.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 08:38:38 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Larry Kayser" Subject: Re: LF: G0MRF/SM6LKM DDS VFO and Jason In-reply-to: <155.7e45e92.2983fa8f@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >>David et all: >>The latest QST has >>another DDS design with 1 Hz steps that are not quite 1 Hz really, rather >>sad to see the impact of thinking that can only cope with 1 Hz increments >>hi. and >I checked with the author of the QST article, as it wasn't clear what the >DDS could do. I received a reply that said you need a diferent code for >the MPU for each band you wish to cover. >Not a very versatile product. I have often wondered what many of the QST articles are that look like that article. I suspect that many of them are Masters Engineering program projects. So often I see this type of article and I have a feeling that the author is not really current in what is going on of just doesn't care. Just my opinion of course. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4276 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2002 12:29:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Jan 2002 12:29:39 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29399 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2002 12:29:39 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Jan 2002 12:29:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16URw1-0002QA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 12:27:53 +0000 Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16URw0-0002Q4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 12:27:53 +0000 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.26.) id l.155.7e45e92 (3861) for ; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 07:26:55 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <155.7e45e92.2983fa8f@aol.com> Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 07:26:55 EST Subject: Re: LF: G0MRF/SM6LKM DDS VFO and Jason To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 10510 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit In a message dated 1/18/02 5:18:18 AM GMT Standard Time, kayser@sympatico.ca writes:


This is all best done at high level as I see it.  The latest QST has
another DDS design with 1 Hz steps that are not quite 1 Hz really, rather
sad to see the impact of thinking that can only cope with 1 Hz increments hi.



I checked with the author of the QST article, as it wasn't clear what the DDS could do.  I received a reply that said you need a diferent code for the MPU for each band you wish to cover.  
Not a very versatile product.

73

David From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26397 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2002 11:09:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Jan 2002 11:09:03 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6427 invoked from network); 26 Jan 2002 11:08:58 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Jan 2002 11:08:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UQZh-0002E1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 11:00:45 +0000 Received: from siaag1af.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.8]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UQZg-0002Dr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 11:00:44 +0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1af.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id FAA13436 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 05:59:25 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 05:59:12 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: WWVB LF transmitter system To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200201260559_MC3-EF67-33EB@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LF-friends, I think the most interesting aspect about that paper on the WWVB LF article was for me to learn that those guys seemed to have the same problems to find suitable parts as we have. The way they described how the recovered some old coils and litz wire from de-commissioned stations reminded me pretty much of some "expeditions" that were described here on the reflector earlier. Also the problems that changing weather conditions makes re-tuning necessary is something I observe with my small-scale LF station as well. Interesting stuff ... Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2770 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 23:51:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 23:51:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 15790 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 23:51:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 23:51:25 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UG5H-00014i-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 23:48:39 +0000 Received: from d12lmsgate-2.de.ibm.com ([195.212.91.200]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UG5G-00014S-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 23:48:39 +0000 Received: from d12relay02.de.ibm.com (d12relay02.de.ibm.com [9.165.215.23]) by d12lmsgate-2.de.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id AAA53100 for ; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 00:47:19 +0100 Received: from usa.net (ss8.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.73]) by d12relay02.de.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0PNmNR114184 for ; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 00:48:23 +0100 Message-ID: <3C51EF2D.46FE4139@usa.net> Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 00:50:05 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re. Please give us some signals References: <001501c1a5d1$01db9440$05e9fea9@g3aqc> Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Laurie Mayhead wrote:
Hi Alberto,I will try some DFCW 10 sec. on 137.682 (close to the top of the DFCW band)I will look for replies from 137.660 to 137.850. Will try to transmit at 1100,12001300,1400 utc. Cannot work any later due to social commitments. 73s Laurie.
Laurie,
   thanks. We will be listening (watching) for you.

73  Alberto  I2PHD
  From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25460 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 23:47:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 23:47:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 18789 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 23:47:39 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 23:47:39 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UG1Y-00013u-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 23:44:48 +0000 Received: from d12lmsgate.de.ibm.com ([195.212.91.199]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UG1X-00013p-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 23:44:47 +0000 Received: from d12relay02.de.ibm.com (d12relay02.de.ibm.com [9.165.215.23]) by d12lmsgate.de.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id AAA283174 for ; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 00:43:27 +0100 Received: from usa.net (ss8.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.73]) by d12relay02.de.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0PNiUR71848 for ; Sat, 26 Jan 2002 00:44:31 +0100 Message-ID: <3C51EE44.D810069A@usa.net> Date: Sat, 26 Jan 2002 00:46:12 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Please give us some signals... References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020125181846.00b19d80@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz wrote: > Dear Alberto, > > What Time? I think it will have to be after dark to receive my sigs - will > you still be around ? > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU Dear Jim and group, the fair opens at 08:00 UTC and closes at 18:00 UTC both Saturday and Sunday... if any of you is willing to try to send anything during this periods that would be appreciated. Just tell us approximately when and where you will be. I do realize that during day time the chances are feeble, but.... Thanks 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26151 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 23:01:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 23:01:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22275 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 23:01:10 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 23:01:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UFIC-0000xY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 22:57:56 +0000 Received: from mta01.btfusion.com ([62.172.195.11] helo=btclick.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UFIB-0000xT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 22:57:55 +0000 Received: from virgin.net ([213.121.110.96]) by btclick.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with ESMTP id GQINQC01.EO7 for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 22:56:36 +0000 Message-ID: <3C51E1D0.80D0184E@virgin.net> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 22:53:04 +0000 From: "Stewart Bryant" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: WWVB LF transmitter system Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I thought that the paper below on the update of the WWVB LF transmitter system was interesting. 73 Stewart G3YSX http://www.boulder.nist.gov/timefreq/general/pdf/1406.pdf From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6316 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 21:36:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 21:36:39 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 25931 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 21:36:35 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 21:36:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UDyA-0000oR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 21:33:10 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UDy9-0000oM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 21:33:09 +0000 Received: from blanch.pncl.co.uk (225.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.225]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g0PLWJq28663 for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 21:32:20 GMT Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020125213113.00a22260@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 21:33:58 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: Re: LF: Carrier In-reply-to: <000a01c1a5cf$dde6fa80$05e9fea9@g3aqc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit At 18:39 25/01/02 Friday +0000, you wrote:

Hi All,
Has anyone seen a strong carrier on 136.7 ? on all day. Or have I developed
a new Birdie !  73s Laurie.

Nothing heard/seen here, Laurie.  But my computer VDU puts out a very strong stable signal on 137.400 when in 1024x768 mode.
Nothing when in  800x600.

Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4173 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 21:19:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 21:19:53 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11072 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 21:19:51 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 21:19:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UDiM-0000kw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 21:16:50 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UDiL-0000kr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 21:16:49 +0000 Received: from blanch.pncl.co.uk (233.235.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.235.233]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g0PLFxF26362 for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 21:15:59 GMT Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020125183918.00a2b890@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 21:17:48 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: Gain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Thanks for erudite replies Jim and Rik, very interesting but I don't think they change my proposition.

Now, here's a follow-on. This is an extract from the two-volume 1400-page "Handbook of Antenna Design" (pub. by IEE in 1982)
Chapter 15 - VLF, LF and MF Antennas edited by J. S. Belrose.  My italics.

Quote:
15.2.1  Characteristics of vertical antennas
If the vertical dipole is some distance above the earth, its impedance and radiation characteristics are identical with a free-space dipole. However, vertical antennas at VLF, LF and MF are usually not far removed from the ground, and generally the antenna is fed against the ground plane as a monopole radiator. Such an antenna is said to be base-fed or series-fed, or base-loaded in the case of electrically short antennas. For the purposes of analysis, neglecting losses in the ground, the monopole can be considered as a dipole whose lower half has been cut off and replaced by its image in the ground. For some purposes, the concept of the monopole radiator and its image is useful. The currents on the vertical parts of the radiator and on its image flow in the same direction i.e. the currents are in phase. The currents on the horizontal parts of the radiator and its image are out of phase. If the height of the antenna is small compared with the wavelength, radiation due to current flowing on the horizontal part of the antenna is almost exactly cancelled by that due to the oppositely phased current on its image, and the antenna is described as having a 'non-radiating' top load. The equivalent length of the monopole, and its input impedance, is one-half that of the corresponding dipole antenna. The power gain of the 'grounded' monopole antenna is, however, 3 dB greater that a dipole antenna in free space,this is because, for a grounded antenna, all the power is radiated into a hemisphere, rather than a sphere.

end quote.

So, another effect of the very lossy ground is that radiation from the horizontal top loading wires is NOT cancelled out and they will radiate. Unfortunately, in all the eight different volumes I have on LF antenna design, there is not one mention of what effect this horizontal radiation might have. The assumption by all the authors seems to be that no LF antenna designer worth his salt would dream of NOT installing the most efficient ground he could and therefore this situation does not occur in practice.

Walter G3JKV

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28396 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 21:01:46 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 21:01:46 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 25367 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 21:01:45 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 21:01:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UDPS-0000gh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 20:57:18 +0000 Received: from smtp1.libero.it ([193.70.192.51]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UDPR-0000gc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 20:57:17 +0000 Received: from ath650.libero.it (151.25.146.34) by smtp1.libero.it (6.0.032) id 3BF1798A01DA6409 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 21:56:23 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020125210114.01fddda0@pop.tiscalinet.it> X-Sender: IK1ODO@popmail.libero.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 21:56:20 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Marco Bruno" Subject: Re: LF: Please give us some signals... In-reply-to: <3C519398.2BC83A1F@usa.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Ciao Alberto, bella la storiella dell'"error writer"! Non vengo a Novegro, troppo stanco, questa settimana ho dovuto fare cose che odio (tagliare due teste in ditta) e sono emotivamente proprio stanco. Penso che dormiro' due giorni - almeno spero, ho avuto quattro notti quasi insonni. Che bello fare l'imprenditore! Ti spedisco l'oscillatore in settimana. 73 - Marco From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7371 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 18:53:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 18:53:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 21558 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 18:52:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 18:52:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UBPw-0000Rm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:49:40 +0000 Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UBPv-0000Rg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:49:39 +0000 Received: from modem-116.calaquendi.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.144.116] helo=g3aqc) by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 16UBP8-0007uB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:48:51 +0000 Message-ID: <001501c1a5d1$01db9440$05e9fea9@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. Please give us some signals Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:48:41 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi Alberto,
I will try some DFCW 10 sec. on 137.682 (close to the top of the DFCW band)
I will look for replies from 137.660 to 137.850. Will try to transmit at 1100,1200
1300,1400 utc. Cannot work any later due to social commitments. 73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21012 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 18:45:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 18:45:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 12575 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 18:45:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 18:45:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UBI3-0000Q3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:41:31 +0000 Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UBI2-0000Py-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:41:30 +0000 Received: from modem-6.edhel.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.170.6] helo=g3aqc) by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 16UBHE-0005dy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:40:41 +0000 Message-ID: <000a01c1a5cf$dde6fa80$05e9fea9@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Carrier Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:39:34 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi All,
Has anyone seen a strong carrier on 136.7 ? on all day. Or have I developed
a new Birdie !  73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10846 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 18:30:32 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 18:30:32 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28465 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 18:30:31 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 18:30:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UB2m-0000NF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:25:44 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UB2k-0000NA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:25:43 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16UB1x-0002DO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:24:53 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16UB1w-0000qu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:24:52 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020125181846.00b19d80@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:24:16 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: Please give us some signals... In-reply-to: <3C519398.2BC83A1F@usa.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 18:19 25/01/2002 +0100, you wrote: >Hello Group, > as the subject of this message says, I am gently reminding >you to put some signals (QRSS, DFCW, Jason...) on the >LF band for our hamfest of Saturday and Sunday, whenever >you have the opportunity to do it. Dear Alberto, What Time? I think it will have to be after dark to receive my sigs - will you still be around ? Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2297 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 17:47:20 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 17:47:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24927 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 17:47:19 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 17:47:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UAJX-0000E1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 17:38:59 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UAJW-0000Dw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 17:38:58 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16UAIk-0001VP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 17:38:10 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16UAIj-00009N-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 17:38:09 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020125173122.00abe490@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 17:37:30 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: Jason Tests Tonight MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Will run the Jason beacon again this evening from about 2300 for a few hours. Frequency 135.990kHz +/-. All reports welcome. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20671 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 17:41:22 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 17:41:22 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17562 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 17:41:20 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 17:41:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UACp-0000Ct-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 17:32:03 +0000 Received: from galahad.joust.net ([63.108.136.2] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UACn-0000Cm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 17:32:02 +0000 Received: from benny-hill (m4-138-151.joust.net [63.108.138.151]) by galahad.joust.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g0PHV2428750 for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 12:31:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <200201251731.g0PHV2428750@galahad.joust.net> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 12:29:51 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Steve Dove" Subject: Re: LF: Class D TX chips X-Mailer: Opera 5.02 build 856a X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Zim, To be fair to TI, their intention is that these amplifiers be used in self-powered speakers, where the speaker wire length is inches (sorry, cems) at worst. For the last few weeks I've had a couple of these driving a pair of whacking great JBLs in my office, and they sound better than they have any right to. Big welly from something about the same size as an op-amp. Amazing. Better yet, they've passed the headache test (long-term listening fatigue) which many amplifiers haven't. We're designing them into a product for someone now, which incidentally - and highly relevant to your point - like any other commercial product is going to have to pass Part 15 and CE emissions testing . . . Anyway; I'll drag one outside and plonk it under the antenna and see what happens. Your local friendly LF pollutant, Steve W3EEE 1/26/2002 8:46:32 AM, "Graeme Zimmer" wrote: >Hi, > >Those of you interested in digital transmitters might take a look at the >new(ish) TPA3000D1 from TI. > >www.ti.com/sc/tpa3000d1 > >It's a class D audio amp capable of 17 Watts audio. It has a switching speed >around 200 Khz. > >I figure it's a "good news" and "bad news" story. > >The good news is that it could possibly be used as a basis for a simple qrp >VLF TX >(I figure that the RC osc could be over-driven by an Xtal osc...) > >The bad news is that they are seriously proposing that these things be used >in consumer equipment without any form of output filter.... > >......................... Zim > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25068 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 17:31:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 17:31:03 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1116 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 17:31:02 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 17:31:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UA2F-0000By-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 17:21:07 +0000 Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.101]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16UA2D-0000Br-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 17:21:05 +0000 Received: from northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (northrelay01.pok.ibm.com [9.117.200.21]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA385184 for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 12:16:41 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss9.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.75]) by northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0PHJgO124480 for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 12:19:43 -0500 Message-ID: <3C519398.2BC83A1F@usa.net> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 18:19:21 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Mailing List" Subject: LF: Please give us some signals... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Group, as the subject of this message says, I am gently reminding you to put some signals (QRSS, DFCW, Jason...) on the LF band for our hamfest of Saturday and Sunday, whenever you have the opportunity to do it. A posting here communicating frequency, schedule and mode would be much appreciated, TNX. 73 Alberto I2PHD --------------------------------- Just heard : <<<<<<< I met an old University friend the other day, who in his youth had professed his desire to become a great writer. When I asked him to define 'great', he had said: "I want to write stuff that people will react to on a truly emotional level; stuff that will make them scream, cry, howl in pain and anger!" Just discovered he's now working for Microsoft...writing error messages. >>>>>>> From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1465 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 15:30:39 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 15:30:39 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10144 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 15:30:36 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 15:30:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16U8Fe-0008RB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 15:26:50 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16U8Fd-0008R6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 15:26:49 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16U8Er-0005pO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 15:26:01 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16U8Eq-0005NS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 15:26:00 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020125120244.00ab4c58@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 15:21:23 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: Re: LF antenna gain In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.2.20020125082049.00a32ec0@mail.pncl.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 10:04 25/01/2002 +0000, you wrote: >...So nearly all the energy that goes into the ground is dissipated and >does not return to the feedpoint. Therefore it cannot reinforce the >radiation pattern. In that case, does the theoretical gain still hold? > >Gain is only obtained from directivity. Directivity can be calculated >from physical considerations but the equation to obtain gain from >directivity is G = e*D , where G = power gain, D = directivity, and e = >radiated power/total power... Dear Walter, LF Group, Not sure if I'm an expert, but... I think the losses that the signal is subject to between transmitter output and receiver antenna can basically be divided into 2 types: Firstly, the losses that are incurred in producing a current in the antenna in the first place. In the case of a vertical it is necessary to generate a huge voltage gradient between the antenna element and earth in order to get useful current to flow, and this field gives rises to large losses in materials in that field; the earth itself, buildings, trees; the antenna wire and it's immediate environment can be modelled as a lossy capacitor. The theorists say that it is the RF current in the wire that is actually causing the propagating E and H fields, so the losses due to the electric field are not really "radiation" losses and make up the "e" part of the gain formula. These are the losses which make the feed point resistance of the antenna greater than the radiation resistance - the power dissipated by the radiation resistance is that part which is being radiated away, and wether it is absorbed or carries on propagating, it does not come back and affect the impedance of the antenna Given that a particular current is produced in a wire of a particular geometry, the radiation pattern (and so the "D" part of the formula) can be calculated either analytically or a numerical result obtained using NEC or something similar. "Image" currents in a ground plane are taken into account. The radiation pattern for a monopole over lossy ground uses a model for the ground which, as I understand it, is a plane surface with a reflection coefficient of magnitude < 1 to account for the energy "radiated into the ground". This type of modelling is one way of producing ground loss curves. As PA0SE pointed out some time ago, The lossy ground model produces different radiation patterns at different distances from the antenna. The default radiation pattern displayed by EZNEC and shown in the text books is the "far field" pattern, mathematically the radiation pattern at a distance tending to infinity. For lossy grounds this inevitably has a null at ground level, because over very large distance, the ground wave will be attenuated very much more than the signal propagating through space, while a monopole over perfect ground has maximum signal at zero elevation. However, as the distance decreases, the attenuation of the ground wave is reduced, until at short distances, where the excess loss due to ground losses is negligible, it turns out that the monopole over lossy ground has much the same radiation pattern and D as the perfect ground case. This actually seems to be close to the truth - calculating the field strength produced by my piece of wet string with a certain current in it by using a NEC model consisting of perfectly conducting wire over a perfect ground gives results that are within a few dB (usually a few dB higher) of reality, over distances between 1 - 10km. It seems reasonable that the few dB's additional "site loss" that occurs could be explained by the obstacles close to the antenna which the radiated signal runs into - since higher antennas that reach above this local clutter have reduced site loss, at least on the basis of the very limited data that is available. So in summary: There are "antenna" losses, the power dissipated by the antenna and its near environment whilst a certain current is flowing, which are responsible for the efficiency "e" part of the gain formula, and which determine the loss resistance of the antenna.. The directivity D is affected by the distance from the antenna - close in, D is much the same as an ideal monopole, far away the ground losses modify the radiation pattern. Due to the very low values of e for all amateur antennas, G will always be a large negative number of dB, however. Calculating the radiation resistance and measuring the antenna current is the best easily done way of determining what ERP is being radiated, since it does not require knowledge of the antenna losses, only D, which is much the same for any electrically small vertical antenna, ie. 1.8 relative to a dipole in free space. So ERP = D.Iant^2.Rrad. In practice, the actual ERP may be lower by a few dBs "site loss" There are lots of loose ends to this - it means that the radiation pattern, gain, and so by definition the value of ERP, depends on the distance at which it is measured where ground losses are significant. Also, modelling the ground as a 2 dimensional plane is not very satisfactory - currents and fields exist within the ground, as the cave radio guys well know! Significant LF radiation from "earth" antennas has been demonstrated. NEC just does not seem to model real grounds well where one part of the antenna actually has a ground connection. More work needs doing on the "site loss". The lobed radiation pattern of verticals shown in the textbooks is fine at HF, but at LF the "upwards" components of the radiated signal will be bumping into the ionosphere and coming back down long before the ground wave has decayed. One could spend a whole lifetime on this sort of thing... Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27282 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 13:54:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 13:54:33 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16405 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 13:54:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 13:54:30 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16U6jI-0008BH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 13:49:20 +0000 Received: from e31.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.129]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16U6j0-0008BC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 13:49:19 +0000 Received: from westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com [9.99.140.22]) by e31.co.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA42478 for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 08:45:05 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss6.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.71]) by westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0PDm8484490 for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 06:48:08 -0700 Message-ID: <3C516200.4283FDC9@usa.net> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 14:47:44 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Digital Sine Generators References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Klaus, thanks for the Matlab files, I saw a lot of German text in them.... I must enlist the aid of my wife to understand what you wrote... There is still a question I have. Probably the answer is in what you sent me, if so, please bear with me. You said that the lengths of the sincos tables must be coprime, fine. The product of their lengths, together with the sampling frequency, is what determines the minimum resolution, fine. But, given that the above constraints are respected, is it immaterial what lengths I choose, or are there some other things you didn't say us yet ? :-) TNX 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19537 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 13:27:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 13:27:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 12490 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 13:27:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 13:27:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16U6Ko-00088K-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 13:24:02 +0000 Received: from fep01.swip.net ([130.244.199.129] helo=fep01-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16U6Kn-00088D-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 13:24:01 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.101.36.156]) by fep01-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020125132309.BFIB21738.fep01-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 14:23:09 +0100 Message-ID: <00d101c1a5a3$83d7e120$9c2465d5@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9979@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> Subject: LF: Jason DDS software released Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 14:19:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Version 1.0 of the new Jason software for G0MRF's DDS is now available. I found some time to test and debug the program on real hardware. It appears to work very well now. The frequency range has been extended to cover 10Hz - 200kHz. I am not sure if the hardware (filters etc.) will handle this range though... I will be happy to e-mail the program to anyone interested. 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1378 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 13:08:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 13:08:33 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22910 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 13:08:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 13:08:32 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16U619-00084l-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 13:03:43 +0000 Received: from e31.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.129]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16U615-00084g-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 13:03:39 +0000 Received: from westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com [9.99.140.22]) by e31.co.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA60474 for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 07:59:46 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss6.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.71]) by westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0PD2mW54482 for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 06:02:48 -0700 Message-ID: <3C515761.812624FC@usa.net> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 14:02:25 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Jason Tests signalling comparison References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB997B@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Talbot Andrew wrote: > I think Alberto is using a > 2^17 long FFT on an 11025 Hz sampling rate, so each FFT bin occupies > 0.084Hz. Windowing of the FFT data is usually done which widens the > effective bandwidth - a Hamming window gives a factor of 1.85 - so the Rx > bandwidth is now 0.16 Hz. > Correct, only I use a Bartlett window, to reduce the width of the main lobe. The Gibbs phenomenon is of no much annoyance here. > Hope that explains the process of how to compare these modes. All rely on > the same fundamental decoding mechanism, incoherent detection of signal > power in a fixed bandwidth. Now, if instead of power, we operate with known > phase and look for signal voltage we immediately gain another 6dB, but > that's another story. Yes, a version of Jason locked to a GPS could be done, but the problem is, how many have the needed hardware to use it ? Besides non-coherent detection, another factor contributes to reduce the S/N performance : character sync. I don't know when a tone switching occurs or should occur. So I compute the statistical 'mode' of the FFT peaks to detect this event. It is my feeling that an integration done on the signal exactly on the interval where you 'know' that a single tone is to be found, would give much better results. > Suffice to say, G3PLX at 393km distance can get 100% > copy of my 30s BPSK transmissions when I am radiating less than 1W of RF, > equating to probably only 100-200 microwatts ERP In the States, the W4DEX beacon with 1 W (RF power, not ERP) has been received at 1000 km distance, though not 100% error free. This is not to say that m-ary FSK, non-coherently detected, is better than BPSK (it isn't), but the diagrams on the Tom McDermott's book "Wireless Digital Communications: Design and Theory" ISBN: 0-9644707-2-1 giving the BER at very low S/N ratios look promising. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4592 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 12:46:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 12:46:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 1397 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 12:46:38 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 12:46:38 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16U5ZV-0007yy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 12:35:09 +0000 Received: from e31.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.129]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16U5ZT-0007yr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 12:35:08 +0000 Received: from westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com [9.99.140.22]) by e31.co.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA87698 for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 07:31:08 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss6.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.71]) by westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0PCYAW57630 for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 05:34:11 -0700 Message-ID: <3C5150AB.C0E78CC2@usa.net> Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 13:33:47 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Jason Tests References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020123175959.00ac4190@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020124114059.00a7a518@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <3C5010A1.FA2F482C@att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by e31.co.us.ibm.com id HAA87698 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dexter McIntyre W4DEX wrote: > Lyle, KØLR, made some test comparing JASON with other modes. Here is > his initial results: > > Turns out that my Pentium 233 MHz "ham" computer requires the > slow mode setting (Jason won't run on my 900 > MHz Pentium III). After switching to slow mode, it looked like Jason is > farily solid down to -30 dB, and gives partial copy at -33 dB.. It would be interesting if the same comparison could be done using a PC with Jason in "normal" mode. The "slow" mode is a compromise, sort of, where some statistic gatherings are traded of for a reduced CPU useage. This could change the day I will stop computing a 2^17 points FFT ten times per second, in favour of a zero-IF approach, as Johan Bodin suggested in a private note. After all, Jason needs to keep his eyes only on a few Hz of band... But, as I told to Johan, I was too eager (and lazy) to release the program, and I had some routines ready in my "software junkbox"... 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27711 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 11:46:43 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 11:46:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17409 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 11:46:42 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 11:46:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16U4hW-0007qd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 11:39:22 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16U4hV-0007qY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 11:39:21 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16U4gi-0007Yl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 11:38:32 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16U4gh-0007R2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 11:38:31 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020125110723.00a7e068@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 11:37:56 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: Sigs from G3JKV and OH1TN MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, I copied G3JKV's 2W Jason beacon signal without problems last night - The signal was S6 here, so no great difficulty! After that, I had a CW QSO with OH1TN. Reino remarked that he had been trying out different modes including PSK31 and Jason. A little later, I was playing around with the "Digimode terminal" part of DL4YHF's Spectrum Lab software in PSK31 mode, and was quite surprised to see a CQ call appear on the screen from Reino again (disguised as OH5UFO this time) - my RX just happened to be on the right frequency. So we had a CW/PSK31 cross-mode QSO, with good copy both ways. Reino also spent some time transmitting a Jason beacon signal around 135.8something; however, I was unable to copy it due to the amount of drift - the drift could clearly be seen on individual dots in the waterfall display - so no usable results here. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26954 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 11:12:28 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 11:12:28 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6706 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 11:12:26 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 11:12:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16U4DB-0007m6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 11:08:01 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16U4D9-0007lz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 11:07:59 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g0PB6ebk015986 for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 12:06:40 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20020125120308.2ba74676@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 12:03:08 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: LF antenna gain In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.2.20020125082049.00a32ec0@mail.pncl.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Walter, You are raising a question I have been thinking about for quite some time. Even after discussion with some antenna specialists I didn't come to a conclusion. You are right stating that the gain figures you mention for a short vertical (4.77dBi or 2.62dBd) is based on the directivity (as for any gain from any antenna). And this directivity is caused by interference of the signal radiated 'into the air' and reflected by the (perfect) ground. In fact a vertical monopole can not radiate without some form of 'counterweight', wether it is the ground, some form of radial system or even just the shielding of the coaxcable it is fed through. Some time ago I did a simple test : I built a small battery operated xtal oscillator, using a CMOS gate (7400) and a 3.579MHz xtal running on a 9V battery. I did put the whole thing a a small plastic (not metal !) box, connected a 1m piece of wire (= antenna) to the oscillator output and hung it on the brach of a tree (few m high) at about 100m from the shack. Using my TS440 and a 1m wire antenna I could barely hear the signal. Next I cut 50cm of wire from the oscillator's antenna and connected it to the minus of the battery and hanging down, as counterweight (in fact making a kind short vertical dipole). Now the signal was very clear, I assume at least 10-20dB stronger. Changing the position of the counterweight wire from vertical to horizontal made the signal sleightly weaker (few dB) and adding a number of additional horizontal counterweight wires increased the signal again. I believe this confirms the fact that a vertical monopole is not much of a radiator without a counterweight. Now returning to your question : what is the gain (directivity) of a 'real world' short vertical monopole ? As you mention only a very small part of the transmitter power is radiated (typical between 1% and 0.01% of the power for amateur sized antennas). But this means that the part that is radiated 'sees' some kind of counterweight. Unfortunately is it impossible to know the shape and dimension of this counterweight and I believe that the directivity of the antenna just depends on this. For example : assume you have a full size (half wave) vertical dipole. This antenna will have a gain of 0dBd (obvious) or 2.15dBi. Further assume that the lower half of the dipole is a multi-strand wire and you 'untwist' all the strands. Now you get a lot of parallel wires, but nothing will change on the antenna behaviour. Next you start to tilt all the parallel wires, creating a kind of Ground Plane antenna. Assuming the number of wires would be endless the antenna directivity would slowly increase from 0dBd/ 2.15dBi (all wires vertical) to 3dBd /5.15dBi (all wires horizontal). This last is the gain of a quarter wave monopole. So in practice the directivity of a short vertical monopole over an imperfect ground will be somewhere between the gain of a short vertical dipole (1.77dBi / -0.39dBd) and the gain of a short vertical monopole over perfect ground (4.77dBd / 2.62dBd). That's the way I see it, no claims to be 100% correct. But I hope it helps. 73, Rik ON7YD At 10:04 25/01/02 +0000, you wrote: >Could one of you experts help me with the following please: > >A short vertical monopole antenna over perfect ground has a gain relative >to isotropic of 4.8 dB. >A half-wave dipole in free space has a gain rel. isotropic of 2.15 dB >Therefore, a monopole should have a gain of 2.65 dB over a dipole. >So the theory goes............ > >But look at the qualifier on the short vertical gain - it has to be >operating over "perfect ground". No amateur has "perfect ground"; at least >not that I am aware of. I haven't heard of anyone laying out 36 radials 550 >metres long under his antenna (not even G3KEV.......yet!) > >So nearly all the energy that goes into the ground is dissipated and does >not return to the feedpoint. Therefore it cannot reinforce the radiation >pattern. In that case, does the theoretical gain still hold? > >Gain is only obtained from directivity. Directivity can be calculated from >physical considerations but the equation to obtain gain from directivity >is G = e*D , where G = power gain, D = directivity, and e = radiated >power/total power. The "gains" quoted above are actually theoretical >directivity figures but they assume that e = 1, that is, that there are no >ground losses (as the definition states) and that accordingly gain is the >same as directivity. > >Not so in an average amateur situation, where e = 1/1000 (1w radiated for >1000w input) so G = 0.001*4.8 = .0048 dB. In other words, the average >amateur LF antenna is no better than isotropic. > >Or should I be ignoring earth losses and only counting copper losses? > >Walter G3JKV. > > > > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18777 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 10:46:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 10:46:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 5646 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 10:46:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 10:46:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16U3pr-0007hk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:43:55 +0000 Received: from mail004.syd.optusnet.com.au ([203.2.75.228]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16U3pq-0007hf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:43:54 +0000 Received: from CO3043446A (c22590.sunsh1.vic.optusnet.com.au [203.164.134.8]) by mail004.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g0PAh3R10845 for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 21:43:03 +1100 Message-ID: <003b01c1a58d$8da6dfa0$0886a4cb@CO3043446A> From: "Graeme Zimmer" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020124175326.02c734a0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Subject: LF: Class D TX chips Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 21:46:32 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi, Those of you interested in digital transmitters might take a look at the new(ish) TPA3000D1 from TI. www.ti.com/sc/tpa3000d1 It's a class D audio amp capable of 17 Watts audio. It has a switching speed around 200 Khz. I figure it's a "good news" and "bad news" story. The good news is that it could possibly be used as a basis for a simple qrp VLF TX (I figure that the RC osc could be over-driven by an Xtal osc...) The bad news is that they are seriously proposing that these things be used in consumer equipment without any form of output filter.... ......................... Zim From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23263 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 10:17:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 10:17:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 3616 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 10:17:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 10:17:48 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16U3Od-0007dN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:15:47 +0000 Received: from jazzfm.netcomuk.co.uk ([194.42.248.66]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16U3Ob-0007dG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:15:46 +0000 Received: from jazzfm.com [192.168.102.5] by jazzfm.netcomuk.co.uk [127.0.0.1] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.5.0.R) for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:15:28 +0000 Received: from JazzFM-Message_Server by jazzfm.com with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:10:10 +0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:09:34 +0000 From: "Martin Charman" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: SMT Devices MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: Martin@jazzfm.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >Andy: >There was a techniques described a couple of years ago for using these chips >dead bug style. Mount the chip upside down on a piece of unetched PCB. >Bend the grounding pins down and solder directly to the groundplane. I've just built a PIC controlled DDS using the AD9832 using a similar technique. I stuck the chip to a small piece of copper mounted along the middle and between the pins of an 18 pin DIL header and used very thin ecw to extend the legs to the header pins. I bent the chips' legs very slightly to allow easier access to them with the soldering iron. Now here are some top tips! When I got to the 14th leg, the wretched thing fell off so try only to bend the legs once! I managed to attach a wire to the stub of the leg by cutting a very sharp point onto a length of 22swg tinned copper wire, wrapping the wire around the soldering iron bit, tinning the end as soon as it was hot enough and then prodding the tinned end of a piece of ecw against the stub using the home made soldering bit. I found it best not to swear too loudly whilst doing this - a steady hand is needed. I potted the whole (very), ugly construction in epoxy resin and it's worked well ever since! I used a watchmakers eyeglass (my Dad's an horologist), for the really tricky bits and although it didn't affect me too badly cross-eyed-wise, I suspect Andy's comments should be noted. Regarding a board for various DDS chips, I have a friend who owns a PCB milling machine which will accept gerber files and will, apparently, cope with SMT devices. He might be willing to run off a couple of boards if anyone would care to design one? I haven't asked him by the way so he might not! 73 Martin G4FKK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6158 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 10:06:17 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 10:06:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21040 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 10:06:16 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 10:06:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16U3Cq-0007ay-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:03:36 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16U3Cp-0007at-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:03:36 +0000 Received: from blanch.pncl.co.uk (30.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.30]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g0PA2jB06329 for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:02:46 GMT Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020125082049.00a32ec0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 10:04:21 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: LF antenna gain MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Could one of you experts help me with the following please: A short vertical monopole antenna over perfect ground has a gain relative to isotropic of 4.8 dB. A half-wave dipole in free space has a gain rel. isotropic of 2.15 dB Therefore, a monopole should have a gain of 2.65 dB over a dipole. So the theory goes............ But look at the qualifier on the short vertical gain - it has to be operating over "perfect ground". No amateur has "perfect ground"; at least not that I am aware of. I haven't heard of anyone laying out 36 radials 550 metres long under his antenna (not even G3KEV.......yet!) So nearly all the energy that goes into the ground is dissipated and does not return to the feedpoint. Therefore it cannot reinforce the radiation pattern. In that case, does the theoretical gain still hold? Gain is only obtained from directivity. Directivity can be calculated from physical considerations but the equation to obtain gain from directivity is G = e*D , where G = power gain, D = directivity, and e = radiated power/total power. The "gains" quoted above are actually theoretical directivity figures but they assume that e = 1, that is, that there are no ground losses (as the definition states) and that accordingly gain is the same as directivity. Not so in an average amateur situation, where e = 1/1000 (1w radiated for 1000w input) so G = 0.001*4.8 = .0048 dB. In other words, the average amateur LF antenna is no better than isotropic. Or should I be ignoring earth losses and only counting copper losses? Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14062 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 08:16:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 08:16:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 7959 invoked from network); 25 Jan 2002 08:16:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jan 2002 08:16:18 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16U1UO-0007NX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 08:13:36 +0000 Received: from jazzfm.netcomuk.co.uk ([194.42.248.66]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16U1UN-0007NS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 08:13:35 +0000 Received: from jazzfm.com [192.168.102.5] by jazzfm.netcomuk.co.uk [127.0.0.1] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.5.0.R) for ; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 08:15:58 +0000 Received: from JazzFM-Message_Server by jazzfm.com with Novell_GroupWise; Fri, 25 Jan 2002 08:11:40 +0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Fri, 25 Jan 2002 08:11:20 +0000 From: "Martin Charman" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Jason Test MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: Martin@jazzfm.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Walter, Received last nights' 2W tests 100% using my special 12 inch piece of wire fed into a deaf IC756 through 300 feet of coax complete with no pre-amp or pre-selection. This plus my 166MHz PC must be more difficult than Holland or Germany :-) 73 Martin G4FKK Carshalton Surrey. >>> Walter Blanchard 24 January 2002 11:15:21 >>> I have my 2w pipsqueak running Jason successfully and would like to try it out on air. Recent results with Jason indicate that it should be possible for my radiated 20 mW to reach Holland and Germany but it will be well below noise even on Argo/Spectran and only found by precise frequency setting clear of QRM. Is there a frequency that has some chance of being heard outside the UK and does not compete with the high-power lads? Possibly 137 100 or so? Does this avoid the Loran lines in Germany? Sorry to disappoint you, Mal, no kilowatts here in spite of being south of the Thames! Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21578 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 20:57:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 20:57:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 2653 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 20:57:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 20:57:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Tqu0-0006GH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:55:20 +0000 Received: from [195.120.73.201] (helo=netregister.it ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Tqty-0006GC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:55:19 +0000 Received: from ik2dedlibero (brescia25.phoenix.it [213.82.97.89]) by netregister.it (8.11.4/8.11.4) with SMTP id g0OKsSK20415 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 21:54:28 +0100 Message-ID: <002501c19762$44106980$596152d5@it> From: "Giulio Scaroni" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: Jason is easy and cheap! Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 10:59:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Claudio wrote: > Just received M0BMU beacon with a minumum station! > > This is a good test for the receiving station to be exposed the next week-end > in hamfest! I hope for some signal in the week-end for our show. > > A tuned loop on my balcony, 100 meters of SAT-TV cable, homemade direct > conversion RX, an old savaged 100MHz Pentium with 16 Mb ram... > > Yes, some errors but a very good Euro/error ratio! > > some garbage...DE MBMU JASON92U0BMU JASON92 DE M0BMU M0BMU JASON92 DE M0BMU > M0BMU JASON92 M0BMU M0BMU JASON92 M0BMU M0BMU SON92 M0BMU M0BMU JASON92 > QRV2300Z ON 135990 DE M0BMU SK > > Now I try again with a more performant computer! > > 73 de Claudio The same here!!! Very good copy of M0BMU, with my tx antenna, and a IC 738 with Mini Circuit DBM, the only problem is that i have switched on the OCXO 5 Mhz by Oscilloquartz too late, so , it has take 1 hour to go in temperature, so captured only the end of trasmission, but also with Gram 5.1 was perfectly readable! Now i'm using my IC 775 that is very good on LF, like the 738 with DBM converter, but, i'm using not the original P.S.U. of 775 becouse the original P.S.U. is a switching model, with switch frequency fo about 70 KHZ, so is impossible to use the 775 in LF for the strong second armonic!!!!!! About the Jason, i think that is a very original mode, don't need to look the screen for many time to read the qrss or dfcw, but this last mode are also very interesting. About my test 2 days ago, when i was trasmitting, in the middle of trasmission, with only 20 w with rain wx, 2 of the 3 wire at the top of antenna that make the capacitive loading has fired and dropped down to the vertical part of the antenna, so 20 W, rain, and antenna broken, the Jason has worked well and reports of good reception from I5TGC was sended me, a test with very poor Tx condition!!! About the TX for Jason, i have used like exciter the IC 738 at 5.137 Mhz with PC to mike input, OL 5 Mhz Oscilloquartz, Mini Circuit DBM , and two transistor for amplifier the low signal from DBM, then the TX is a single IRF 640 that deliver 100 W out at 17 Vcc. But the problem is that switching off on PC the Jason from TX to stand by, the sound card give a noise signal to the TX that go into autooscillation, so need to switch off all two togheter at the same time, i think that is better a DDS source, good also for dfcw!! 73 to all and saturday from 8.00 to 17.00 i'll tx on beacon mode for the Milano - Novegro hamfest, at 137.520 in Jason, qrss 3, for this special event!! Giulio Scaroni IK2DED. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22316 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 20:18:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 20:18:32 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 20712 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 20:18:29 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 20:18:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TqBm-0006BW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:09:38 +0000 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TqBk-0006BR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:09:37 +0000 Received: from host213-122-65-228.btinternet.com ([213.122.65.228]) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16TqAx-0003XD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:08:48 +0000 From: "Nick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Small Components (No longer Radiated Pow er) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 20:04:26 +0000 Message-ID: References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9979@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> In-reply-to: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9979@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:42:20 -0000, you wrote: >A >headband magnifier, eg RS Components 3x does a better job of maintaining a >flat plane and better stereoscopic vision and does not give the same after >effects. OK, I don't get these problems but then my eyesight is faulty and does not combine the output of my eyes into stereo vision hence it is not an issue with me. That explains a lot. Nick From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29265 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 19:32:44 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 19:32:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18663 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 19:02:47 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 19:02:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Toth-0005yv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 18:46:53 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Totg-0005yq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 18:46:52 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16Tosu-0005ku-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 18:46:04 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16Tost-0004Fo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 18:46:03 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020124175326.02c734a0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 18:45:02 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: Re: Jason Tests signalling comparison In-reply-to: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB997B@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.go v.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Andy, LF Group, At 14:54 24/01/2002 +0000, you wrote: >All three of these modes use the same basic technique, looking for the >presence or absence of a signal in a given bandwidth - in the case of JASON >doing this 17 times in parallel. The bandwidth that matters is not the >total bandwidth of the whole signal, just that occupied by one of the tones, >and that is defined in the decoding software... So, in principle, if one was looking at a spectrogram of a signal made up of dots of a certain length, with evenly distributed noise, it would not matter from the viewpoint of detecting them whether they were all in a line (QRSS) or distributed over 17 different frequencies (Jason), provided you knew what the 17 frequencies were. The Jason signal is equivalent to 17 separate QRSS stations on different frequencies, using a funny type of code arranged so that only one station is transmitting at any one time. So the ability to detect this kind of signal with a given signal power and noise power spectral density only depends on the length of the dots and not at all on the number of frequencies used. But using a larger number of frequencies enables faster transmission of data because then a larger number of different codes can be made up from a given number of dots. So Jason should work with the same signal and noise levels as QRSS using 12s dots, but at the same time be 5 times quicker - is this correct? I suppose there are practical restrictions on this - for example, you have to find 4Hz of bandwidth with no narrow band noise in it, like Loran lines, in order to make the scheme work. >A machine can decide on the presence or absence of a signal in a defined >bandwidth a lot better than a human eye can on a waterfall - it most >definitely can, believe it, its true, even if this fact makes you feel >uncomfortable :-(( I can believe that machines are better at detecting a small change in level of signal/noise than a human operator, but with the simple encoding schemes we are using, the human operator has the advantage in that they can quite often "guess" what the data should be when it is corrupted. But then you could argue that error correcting codes of one sort or another achieve similar results for machine decoding. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15309 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 19:05:25 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 19:05:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28620 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 17:48:42 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 17:48:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Tntu-0005pw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 17:43:02 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Tntt-0005pr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 17:43:01 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16Tnt6-0004Kd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 17:42:12 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16Tnt6-0003GL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 17:42:12 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020124173218.00a7f8a0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 17:41:27 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: No Jason Tests Tonight In-reply-to: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB997B@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.go v.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, No beacon sigs from M0BMU tonight - I'm taking the night off! Will run some more tests over the weekend, so if you have anything particular in mind, please let me know. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13872 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 18:11:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 18:11:56 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 22354 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 15:02:03 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 15:02:03 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TlIU-0005RI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:56:14 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TlIT-0005RC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:56:13 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id PAA13642; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:05:21 GMT Received: (qmail 9614 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 15:43:59 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 15:43:59 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id PAA16195; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:12:47 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma016181; Thu, 24 Jan 02 15:12:17 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:01:45 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:54:52 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB997B@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: "Holtby Linda C" Subject: LF: RE: Re: Jason Tests signalling compariso n Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:54:48 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >BTW, does anyone know how to compare the weak signal performance of Jason >and QRSS or DFCW? It seems clear that the increased bandwidth must result >in some loss of SNR, but there will also be gains because the data is being >transmitted faster for a given dot length. >73 de M0BMU All three of these modes use the same basic technique, looking for the presence or absence of a signal in a given bandwidth - in the case of JASON doing this 17 times in parallel. The bandwidth that matters is not the total bandwidth of the whole signal, just that occupied by one of the tones, and that is defined in the decoding software. I think Alberto is using a 2^17 long FFT on an 11025 Hz sampling rate, so each FFT bin occupies 0.084Hz. Windowing of the FFT data is usually done which widens the effective bandwidth - a Hamming window gives a factor of 1.85 - so the Rx bandwidth is now 0.16 Hz. What you are doing is trading off the ability to send 3 bits at a time (actually 4 per symbol but one is used for framing) against total signal bandwidth. 6 bits giving the full alphabet of 64 characters needs two symbol lengths. QRSS sends characters using variable length coding but an average of something like 10 dot intervals per character is probably not unreasonable (E = 2, T = 4, J = 14, 0(zero) = 20 etc.) DFCW shortens this by a factor of around 2, to 5 dot intervals per character. So, assuming equal symbol lengths : QRSS 10 symbols / character DFCW 5 symbols / charracter JASON 2 symbols per character So for a given signalling, or noise bandwidth, JASON is 5 times quicker than QRSS, and DFCW twice as fast. All three assume a symbol can have the same arbitrary length, and can therefore be received in the same signal (or noise) bandwidth. The tone spacing in Jason is set at three FFT bins to allow independdant (orthogonal) detection, so for the 17 tone version total bandwidth is 16 units so effective bandwidth of each of the modes is : QRSS 1 unit of bandwidth * 10 symbols/character = 10 DFCW 2 units of bandwidth * 5 symbols/character = 10 JASON 16 units of bandwidth * 2 symbols/character = 32 So in terms of effective bandwidth CW and DFCW are roughly equal, Jason is worse by a factor of 3. So there is the trade off. Signalling speed vs. effective bandwidth.......... But that is not even the whole story ..... A machine can decide on the presence or absence of a signal in a defined bandwidth a lot better than a human eye can on a waterfall - it most definitely can, believe it, its true, even if this fact makes you feel uncomfortable :-(( How much better is debatable, but probably there is 3 - 6dB to be gained by using a machine for decoding rather than the. We are now into the realms of the non linear relationship between error rate and signal to noise, so it is more difficult to quantify this better decoding in terms of noise bandwidth, but it is easy to believe the factor of 3 (= 5dB) could be recovered, in the case of weak and marginal signalling even more so - meaning JASON matches the performance of QRSS and DFCW for a given symbol length. Note, however, that as JASON fixes the symbol length at around 11 seconds, so to compare like with like, we should only be comparing with 10s QRSS / DFCW. Hope that explains the process of how to compare these modes. All rely on the same fundamental decoding mechanism, incoherent detection of signal power in a fixed bandwidth. Now, if instead of power, we operate with known phase and look for signal voltage we immediately gain another 6dB, but that's another story. Suffice to say, G3PLX at 393km distance can get 100% copy of my 30s BPSK transmissions when I am radiating less than 1W of RF, equating to probably only 100-200 microwatts ERP Andy G4JNT -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24705 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 17:09:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 17:09:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 4537 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 15:12:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 15:12:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TlSJ-0005U1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:06:23 +0000 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TlSI-0005Tw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:06:22 +0000 Received: from abc (man-s241.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.45.112]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id g0OF5Wb16971 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:05:32 GMT Message-ID: <005001c1a4e8$5e077700$702df7c2@zetnet.co.uk> From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9979@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Small Components (No longer Radiated Pow er) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 14:56:17 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: May I contribute to the discussion? If you don't normally wear glasses, but are considering using them for IC work, I suggest you consult an optician for advice on the most appropriate form of vision enhancement. I start from the opposite extreme to Andrew Talbot. I have to wear glasses pretty well all the time as I have severe astigmatism. I also have an alternating divergent squint which means that I do not in practice have stereoscopic vision. Also my hands are not entirely steady. Nevertheless, I have successfully assembled the GQRP surface mount kit using my reading glasses (carefully cleaned) and an illuminated magnifier on an Anglepoise-type mount. 73 de John Rabson G3PAI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15529 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 15:42:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 15:42:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 7597 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 15:15:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 15:15:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TlXD-0005Uu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:11:27 +0000 Received: from fep04.swip.net ([130.244.199.132] helo=fep04-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TlXC-0005Up-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 15:11:27 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.9.80]) by fep04-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020124151037.RDIE19911.fep04-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 16:10:37 +0100 Message-ID: <000901c1a4e9$5b595180$500997d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9979@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> Subject: LF: New Jason program for G0MRF DDS PIC Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 16:10:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi An "pre-alpha" version of the program is now available for PIC16F84. (not yet tested on hardware ;-) There wasn't room for both Jason and DFCW in the PIC16F84 so DFCW had to go... If there is interest, I can modify the program later to handle both Jason and DFCW but that will call for a PIC16F628. Is there anyone out there who has both the G0MRF DDS board and a PIC programmer and would like to do the "big bang test" for me? If it doesn't work, you can always pour the old code back into the PIC. (I don't have the G0MRF DDS board and I don't have the time to build an equivalent test circuit right now.) PIC program and interface details are available on request. 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29588 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 14:00:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 14:00:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 15858 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 14:00:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 14:00:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TkLX-0005It-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:55:19 +0000 Received: from antiochus-fe0.ultra.net ([146.115.8.188]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TkLW-0005Io-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:55:18 +0000 Received: from comrex (207-172-97-126.s126.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.97.126]) by antiochus-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n20340/mtc.v2) with SMTP id IAA18665 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:54:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <009501c1a4df$2aac9420$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020123175959.00ac4190@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020124114059.00a7a518@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Jason Tests Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:57:43 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jim, > Many thanks for the reports on the Jason beacon sigs last night from > OE5EEP, SM6LKM, I2PHD, IK2PII, CT1DRP, and to anyone else who was listening > . I started late, about 2015, after having trouble putting my antenna p - > but it went up in the end, so the ERP last night would have been close to > 1W. I transmitted on 135.910 from about 2015 - 2120, and on 135.990 from > 2300 - 0210. I transmitted the CW ID just by keying the TX on and off, > without interrupting the Jason frequency shifts - provided the ID is fairly > short, this did not seem to corrupt the Jason signal much, and the shifts > of a few Hz makes little difference to the CW note. I did try 135.990 from 2300 to 0000 last night, but had no luck. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4416 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 13:51:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 13:51:50 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11334 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 13:51:49 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 13:51:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TkFe-0005HS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:49:14 +0000 Received: from europa.your-site.com ([140.186.45.14]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TkFd-0005HM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:49:13 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.180.100]) by europa.your-site.com ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:48:22 -0500 Message-ID: <3C5010A1.FA2F482C@att.net> Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 13:48:17 +0000 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Jason Tests References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020123175959.00ac4190@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020124114059.00a7a518@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz wrote: > > BTW, does anyone know how to compare the weak signal performance of Jason > and QRSS or DFCW? It seems clear that the increased bandwidth must result > in some loss of SNR, but there will also be gains because the data is being > transmitted faster for a given dot length. > > Jim, I did look for your 135.990 transmission last night. I saw nothing but didn't expect to. There were heavy thunderstorms in the mid US and another small group to my SE wiped out LF reception for me. Lyle, KØLR, made some test comparing JASON with other modes. Here is his initial results: >>>>>>>>>> I was trying to compare Jason and WOLF, using the same old noise recording that was the "standard" for comparisons of other weak-signal modes a while back. In those tests, 12 WPM CW was good down to about -18 dB and QRSS3 was good maybe to -27 dB. In today's tests, WOLF produced solid copy after 288 seconds at -35 dB. Jason seemed to be erratic at any signal level, so I knew something was wrong with my receiving setup. Turns out that my Pentium 233 MHz "ham" computer requires the slow mode setting (Jason won't run on my 900 MHz Pentium III). After switching to slow mode, it looked like Jason is farily solid down to -30 dB, and gives partial copy at -33 dB. Results could be completely different under other combinations of QRN and QRM. Anyway, with the right settings I might have had better results on your Jason signal. >>>>>>>>>> 73, Dexter From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17596 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 12:51:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 12:51:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 8909 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 12:51:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 12:51:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TjBF-000501-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:40:37 +0000 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TjBE-0004zw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:40:36 +0000 Received: from steve (ppp166.dyn154.pacific.net.au [210.23.154.166]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id XAA13501 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 23:39:42 +1100 Message-ID: <00be01c1a4d4$3e665380$a69a17d2@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: "RSGB LF Group" References: <3.0.5.32.20020123134537.009ad6e0@pop3.esoterica.pt> Subject: LF: Re: RE: Freedom... (the price of...) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 23:39:56 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Brian and Andy, > > >The first URL seems to require getting a Yahoo ID and entering a lot of > >information I'm not preparred to give - is this necessary ? > > > >The second URL seems a lot easier - just asking for an EMail address. > > > >Andy G4JNT > > I looked at your e-mail around midnight and was going to ask the same > question but Andy has beaten me to it. > Unfortunately as far as I can tell both paths will require a Yahoo ID. Being a moderator, the interface I see is different from other members so I am not 100% sure of this - but nearly. If the level of disclosure is more than you are prepared to give then I'm afraid its a non-goer. I share your distaste for generally disclosing any info about myself, internet or elsewhere, but the only thing I have any problem with here is disclosing my age. In my case it probably doesn't matter as you have probably figured out that I'm "over the hill". And you could always fudge it in either direction if you wanted to :-) All I can say is that I have had a Yahoo ID for some considerable time now with no apparent ill effects. In fact I belong to a number of groups which require a similar level of disclosure without problems. So far in over 5 years I still haven't had any trouble with spam. Maybe I'm lucky. Alberto, HTML and attachments are not allowed for two reasons - security and freedom from unsolicited posts of graphics. A case of a picture is worth (costs) a thousand words. This is not a criticism of those who post graphics - it was the concensus of the members on "lofexp"who responded to my question on this point. We have found that either an url to pictures or an invitation to request direct emailing of pictures is entirely adequate. This is not a hard and fast ruling, just the preference of members at this time. In short the "lofexp" reflector is designed to be as little a load as possible on those without fast connections or are burdened with high internet time costs. Most of the time it succeeds. Going on our holidays which were postponed due to the bushfires. Back by next Tuesday. Make the most of the "VK2ZTO free" weekend :-) 73s Steve VK2ZTO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9979 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 12:50:35 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 12:50:35 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24683 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 12:50:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 12:50:32 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TjFq-00050n-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:45:22 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TjFo-00050h-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:45:20 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16TjEx-0002Iw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:44:27 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16TjEx-0003qv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:44:27 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020124114059.00a7a518@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:43:45 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: Re: Jason Tests In-reply-to: <3C4F2E45.F7FB0C45@usa.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020123175959.00ac4190@gemini.herts.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Many thanks for the reports on the Jason beacon sigs last night from OE5EEP, SM6LKM, I2PHD, IK2PII, CT1DRP, and to anyone else who was listening . I started late, about 2015, after having trouble putting my antenna up - but it went up in the end, so the ERP last night would have been close to 1W. I transmitted on 135.910 from about 2015 - 2120, and on 135.990 from 2300 - 0210. I transmitted the CW ID just by keying the TX on and off, without interrupting the Jason frequency shifts - provided the ID is fairly short, this did not seem to corrupt the Jason signal much, and the shifts of a few Hz makes little difference to the CW note. Before starting, I saw QRSS from OH5UFO just below 136.0, and between the two transmissions I could see F6BWO active in the "T/A" slot. At this I also heard a faily weak "digital" signal around 135.8 - It had a bandwidth around 20Hz, didn't seem to be PSK31; maybe this is the signal Johan heard? Perhaps Reino again? I also thought I saw another weak Jason signal at about 135.885kHz, but although it looked about right on the waterfall display, it would not decode, so perhaps just some jittery noise. It is clear that Jason can be a useful LF mode. With 1W ERP, people are getting more or less perfect copy all over Europe; I expect it would increase the range of QRP stations in a similar way to QRSS. The bandwidth and transmitter requirements are nicely compatible with current LF practice, although the 100% duty cycle requires better than average heatsinks! The software is easy to install and use. It remains to be seen if in it's current form it is a "transatlantic" mode - The Lowfers seemed to be otherwise engaged last night, and listening conditions over there seemed to have been fairly poor anyway. However, a shortfall in SNR could be made up by increasing the dot length, at the expense of speed of course. All in all, it seems to be very promising. BTW, does anyone know how to compare the weak signal performance of Jason and QRSS or DFCW? It seems clear that the increased bandwidth must result in some loss of SNR, but there will also be gains because the data is being transmitted faster for a given dot length. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18719 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 12:48:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 12:48:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 5548 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 12:48:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 12:48:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TjEI-00050N-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:43:46 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TjEH-00050I-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:43:45 +0000 Received: from host217-35-35-58.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.35.58] helo=dellboy) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16TjDT-0007fv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:42:55 +0000 Message-ID: <002201c1a4d4$a8b8f440$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020124103653.00a30ec0@mail.pncl.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Jason Test Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:43:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Walter. Just seen your Jason transmission. Perfect copy here in Brum. Dave. G3YXM. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Blanchard" To: Sent: Thursday, January 24, 2002 11:15 AM Subject: LF: Jason Test > I have my 2w pipsqueak running Jason successfully and would like to try it > out on air. > > Recent results with Jason indicate that it should be possible for my > radiated 20 mW to reach Holland and Germany but it will be well below noise > even on Argo/Spectran and only found by precise frequency setting clear of QRM. > > Is there a frequency that has some chance of being heard outside the UK and > does not compete with the high-power lads? > Possibly 137 100 or so? Does this avoid the Loran lines in Germany? > > Sorry to disappoint you, Mal, no kilowatts here in spite of being south of > the Thames! > > Walter G3JKV. > > > > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3240 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 12:12:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 12:12:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 9624 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 12:11:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 12:11:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Tici-0004vF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:04:56 +0000 Received: from tvout.mail.uk.easynet.net ([194.6.96.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Tich-0004vA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:04:55 +0000 Received: from erica (tnt-13-126.easynet.co.uk [212.134.22.126]) by tvout.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A746B63CF3 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:03:55 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <001601c1a4cf$bc6f97a0$83ce28c3@erica> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C4DB13D.B1B47595@netscapeonline.co.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020122153052.00aa9420@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020123122418.00b0bc60@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <3C4EB79A.D4724190@usa.net> <02db01c1a4a6$7d26b660$02000a0a@user> Subject: LF: Re: T/A, Jason & Cuba Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 12:06:59 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Arnie, Nice to hear from you again >Reading with great interest all the JASON software test results. >Where I can find the latest versionfor downloading ? The latest Jason release from Alberto I2PHD, is to be found on http://www.weaksignals.com.com/jason >Or someone on this list could please send it to me as an e-mail attachment ? If you have any problems I can do this. >I have now a transmitter with two 813 vacuum tubes, ready to be converted to LF, >and we are talking with Federacion de Radioaficonados de Cuba officials >about possible request of special experimental licenses for 136 Khz band operation. >Trans Atlantic to the Caribbean on 136 kHz is perfectly possible as we regularly pick >up Long Wave AM broadcasts from all over Europe and the Middle East at >certain times of the year. Probably the best plan, in the first place, is to look for QRSS or DFCW from Europe to see if propagation exists. It is technically much easier to do and you can monitor a range of frequencies at once. I feel that it should do as several EU stations have been seen by W4DEX in North Carolina. I take it that you have a copy of Argo, also from Alberto, on the website mentioned above. I have been receiving your DXers Unlimited broadcasts from Radio Havana but only the 13750kHz SSB seems to get through. Heavy QRM on 13750 Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5021 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 11:17:06 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 11:17:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4588 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 11:17:09 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 11:17:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Thq0-0004mD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 11:14:36 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Thpz-0004m6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 11:14:35 +0000 Received: from blanch.pncl.co.uk (40.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.40]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g0OBDjw32579 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 11:13:45 GMT Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020124103653.00a30ec0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 11:15:21 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: Jason Test MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have my 2w pipsqueak running Jason successfully and would like to try it out on air. Recent results with Jason indicate that it should be possible for my radiated 20 mW to reach Holland and Germany but it will be well below noise even on Argo/Spectran and only found by precise frequency setting clear of QRM. Is there a frequency that has some chance of being heard outside the UK and does not compete with the high-power lads? Possibly 137 100 or so? Does this avoid the Loran lines in Germany? Sorry to disappoint you, Mal, no kilowatts here in spite of being south of the Thames! Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29276 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 10:23:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 10:23:45 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29768 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 10:23:44 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 10:23:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Tgz3-0004f3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:19:53 +0000 Received: from heavymetal.isc.de ([195.64.96.45] helo=mail1.isys.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Tgz2-0004ey-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:19:52 +0000 Received: from [195.64.97.21] (helo=k) by mail1.isys.net with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 16TgyD-0000u4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 11:19:01 +0100 From: "Klaus von der Heide" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 11:16:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Re: Digital Sine Generators In-reply-to: <003701c1a49f$a026feb0$0886a4cb@CO3043446A> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello all, Zim wrote: > Thank you for your good humour and patience in answering my dumb questions. > It's embarrassing for me to show my ignorance in public, but it's worth it > if > I learn something useful. The mathematician would say: The only dumb question is the empty question. > For a long time now I've been trying to understand the practical trade-offs > in DDS design. > > So let's see if I have this DDS Distortion thing right ........... > > Memory Quantisation: > ---------------------- > > If all of the bits in a DDS latch are used to drive the Sine ROM, then there > is NO problem with memory quantisation. > > If the Latch has many bits (e.g. to get fine frequency steps) then the ROM > will have to be excessively large. If only the higher order bits are used to > drive the ROM, then the wave generated will have a degree of roughness. Yes, this roughness is additional to the inevitable value quantization of the memory words which you mention further below. The effect of address quantization often is much greater. > In the special case where the low order (unused) bits do not change (e.g. > where the matching low order Increment bits are at zero), then there is also > no quantisation error (is this correct?). Yes and no. See above. The quantization of the memory words remains. But the effort to get this smaller by longer words is linear in complexity. That means, each further bit gives a gain of 6 dB. In contrast, the effort to get the effect of address quantization smaller is exponential. To gain 6 dB, you have to double the memory. > Question: If we use a modern DDS chip, but limit the steps used to those > which only exercise the ROM address lines, does this give us a more pure > signal ? Yes. But that is a severe limitation. And modern DDS chips often have implemented extra hardware for dithering which smoothes out the effect over ALL frequencies. You cannot switch off that. > In practical DDS design, there are various methods to increase the > resolution without increasing the ROM size. One method is to interpolate the > "missing" readings. The simplest would be to draw a straight line between > the two readings and then subdivide it into as many points as are required. Yes, interpolation is the best way to reduce the error. But linear interpolation is not sufficient. Implementation of a Taylor approximation is easy since the derivations of sin are cos -sin -cos sin and so on. So you have all the coefficients from your sine table. But it requires an arithmetic unit. > D/A Quantisation: > ------------------- > > This is caused by the limit to the number of bits in each ROM location. Yes, we mentioned that above. When the phase step is chosen such that only a few memory words are addressed periodically, the spectrum of the periodical quantization error (that's not a sine!) concentrates the power into equidistant spikes, that are mirrored at half the sampling frequency and at 0 again and so on. This also can be smoothed out by dithering. But a dither generally raises the noise level. Now, let us review the method with the Chines Remainder Theorem: We have no address quantization. But we have value quantization of the memory words. And additionally we have some rounding error of the arithmetic that computes the final result. That's the same if we use a Taylor-approximation. I found that the DDS with the Chinese Remainders is easier to implement and much more efficient on a DSP than a classic DDS with interpolation. 73 de Klaus, DJ5HG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 437 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 09:47:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 09:47:34 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 20972 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 09:47:05 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 09:47:05 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TgPr-0004YH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:43:31 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TgPq-0004YC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:43:30 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id JAA11819; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:52:39 GMT Received: (qmail 26674 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 10:31:17 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 10:31:17 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id KAA25560; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 10:00:07 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma025520; Thu, 24 Jan 02 09:59:50 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:49:15 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:42:23 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9979@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Small Components (No longer Radiated Pow er) Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:42:20 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: NO NO NO ! I don't wear glasses, but tried these for IC work. They were great for magnifying, but the convergence was wrong and as soon as I took them off I was cross eyed and could barely see for some minutes afterwards. That was quite alarming, and the glasses immediately went in the rubbish bin. A headband magnifier, eg RS Components 3x does a better job of maintaining a flat plane and better stereoscopic vision and does not give the same after effects. This message is still being responded to with the Radiated Power subject line :-( Andy G4JNT -----Original Message----- From: Nick [mailto:maad65@dial.pipex.com] Sent: 23 January 2002 20:19 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: Radiated power On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:16:45 -0000, you wrote: > >Take the plunge. Get yourself a good headband magnifier A hint for the skinflints among us. You can now buy 'non-prescription' reading glasses from places like Boots at up to 3 diopter for a very reasonable price. Unless you already wear strong glasses and want the extra magnification these are every bit as good as a headband magnifier and more convenient to wear. Just get the strongest they have and give them a try. Nick -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26748 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 09:20:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 09:20:26 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 21703 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 09:19:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 09:19:57 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TfwS-0004TP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:13:08 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TfwQ-0004TK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:13:06 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id JAA18999; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:22:13 GMT Received: (qmail 24692 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 10:00:51 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 10:00:51 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id JAA23150; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:29:41 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma022732; Thu, 24 Jan 02 09:28:02 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:17:05 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 09:10:12 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9978@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Reference Osc. Waveform Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:34:51 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The AD9850 wants a (nominal) 0 - 5V squarewave waveform, the duty cycle is not important. You haven't specified the absolute voltage levels in your diagram below, but if it is nominally a TTL type of signal it may work. In practice though, I've found the AD9850 will work with input waveforms a lot worse than the specs call up. In some cases a 3Vpk-pk waveform will operate it provided som DC bias is added. The best way to correct an arbitrary shaped waveform to suitable levels is to pass it through a buffer, such as a 74AC14 Schmitt trigger gate. This particular logic family will go to about 150MHz. If you DC bias the input at a point between its two hysteresis levels then AC couple the signal, the buffer will respond to signals of less than 1V pk-pk. For higher gain, couple to a 74HC04 inverter, biassed into linear operation with a resistor of a few 10s or 100s of k ohms between output and input. In retrospect it would have been a good idea to add a clock buffer on that DDS module, and space for a TTL oscillator module, Andy G4JNT -----Original Message----- From: Larry Kayser [mailto:kayser@sympatico.ca] Sent: 23 January 2002 16:07 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Reference Osc. Waveform Greetings All: This discussion of DDS chips reminds me of a problem I have here. I have two, very nice TOYOCOM TCO-512K oscillator modules. I want to put these to work here. The output waveform looks like this on the Scope I have here x x x x x x x x x x x etc.The waveform looks almostexactly like a right angle triangle. x x x x xxxxxxx xxxxxxx ^ ^ ^ The up arrows are the beginning of a cycle, the middle of the cycle, the end of the cycle. What will this type of waveform do to the 9850? Does the 9850 want a 50% duty cycle? or can I put this kind of wave form into the 9850 without risk? These are very high quality units, they were the frequency determining elements in an early analogue cellular radio system (Swedish system), but I am at a loss to understand this waveform on the output. I have tried different loadings on the output (10K to 50 ohms) and it seems to stay very close to the same, If this waveform is not suitable is there a simple way to add something to make the waveform a square wave with 50% duty cycle? Larry VA3LK -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20325 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 08:19:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 08:19:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 26635 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 08:19:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 08:19:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Tf0n-0004Kv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:13:33 +0000 Received: from ns2.etecsa.net ([206.49.67.1] helo=mxb.etecsa.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Tf0k-0004Kq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 08:13:31 +0000 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by mxb.etecsa.net (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) id DAA00524 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 03:12:38 -0500 (EST) Received: from ppp-033hav1.pppi.etecsa.cu(65.169.246.33), claiming to be "user" via SMTP by opcional, id smtpdAAAWUvRy_; Thu Jan 24 03:12:28 2002 Message-ID: <02db01c1a4a6$7d26b660$02000a0a@user> From: "Prof. Arnaldo Coro Antich" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C4DB13D.B1B47595@netscapeonline.co.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020122153052.00aa9420@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020123122418.00b0bc60@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <3C4EB79A.D4724190@usa.net> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Jason Tests Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 03:09:27 -0400 Organization: ICRT Radio Habana Cuba MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------070209000404050309000301" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070209000404050309000301 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi all:
Reading with great interest all the
JASON software test results.
Where I can find the latest version
for downloading ?
Or someone on this list could
please send it to me as an
e-mail attachment ?
When Peter Dodd G3LDO visited Cuba, we discussed a lot about
the LF experiments.
I have now a transmitter with
two 813 vacuum tubes, ready to
be converted to LF, and we are
talking with Federacion de
Radioaficonados de Cuba officials about possible request of special
experimental licenses for 136 Khz band operation.
One limiting factor is our old and
slow computers, but maybe we
can run JASON at the slow speed
option.
Trans Atlantic to the Caribbean
on 136 kHz is perfectly possible
as we regularly pick up Long Wave
AM broadcasts from all over
Europe and the Middle East at
certain times of the year, even
using the Russian B215 Selena
radio receiver with ferrite rod
antenna.
My home e-mail is:
73 and DX
YOur friend in Havana
Arnie Coro
CO2KK
----- Original Message -----
Sent: miércoles, 23 de enero de 2002 9:16
Subject: LF: Re: Jason Tests

James Moritz wrote:
Thanks to I2PHD, DJ8WX, NL9222, G3NYK for the reports and images, and to
anybody else who was watching for my Jason v0.92 test sigs. I transmitted
on 137.510 from about 2030 - 2210, and on 135.910 from about 2300 - 0200.
Jim,
  perfect copy also at 135.910...

Your signal wasn't audible aurally, but you were right on spot on frequency,
so I didn't even need to do fine tuning with the mouse.
Thanks fior the tests, let's hope now for T/A...
BTW,  SXV was very strong here yesterday evening

73  Alberto  I2PHD
 

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06:23:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 22498 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 06:23:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 06:23:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TdFh-00048T-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 06:20:49 +0000 Received: from mail008.syd.optusnet.com.au ([203.2.75.232]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TdFf-00048O-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 06:20:47 +0000 Received: from CO3043446A (c22590.sunsh1.vic.optusnet.com.au [203.164.134.8]) by mail008.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g0O6Ju817534 for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 17:19:56 +1100 Message-ID: <003701c1a49f$a026feb0$0886a4cb@CO3043446A> From: "Graeme Zimmer" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: Digital Sine Generators Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 17:23:21 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Klaus, Thank you for your good humour and patience in answering my dumb questions. It's embarrassing for me to show my ignorance in public, but it's worth it if I learn something useful. For a long time now I've been trying to understand the practical trade-offs in DDS design. So let's see if I have this DDS Distortion thing right ........... Memory Quantisation: ---------------------- If all of the bits in a DDS latch are used to drive the Sine ROM, then there is NO problem with memory quantisation. If the Latch has many bits (e.g. to get fine frequency steps) then the ROM will have to be excessively large. If only the higher order bits are used to drive the ROM, then the wave generated will have a degree of roughness. In the special case where the low order (unused) bits do not change (e.g. where the matching low order Increment bits are at zero), then there is also no quantisation error (is this correct?). Question: If we use a modern DDS chip, but limit the steps used to those which only exercise the ROM address lines, does this give us a more pure signal ? In practical DDS design, there are various methods to increase the resolution without increasing the ROM size. One method is to interpolate the "missing" readings. The simplest would be to draw a straight line between the two readings and then subdivide it into as many points as are required. D/A Quantisation: ------------------- This is caused by the limit to the number of bits in each ROM location. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17630 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 00:06:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 00:06:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 14769 invoked from network); 24 Jan 2002 00:06:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jan 2002 00:06:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TXIw-0003J8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 23:59:46 +0000 Received: from fep04.swip.net ([130.244.199.132] helo=fep04-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TXIv-0003J3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 23:59:45 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.12.242]) by fep04-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020123235856.OHHA19911.fep04-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Thu, 24 Jan 2002 00:58:56 +0100 Message-ID: <001701c1a469$fecf3bc0$f20c97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020123175959.00ac4190@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <3C4F2671.C442E4E7@qsl.net> Subject: LF: Piccolo!? Date: Thu, 24 Jan 2002 00:58:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Anyone else heard the strong multi-tone FSK signal? It sounded like Piccolo or "High Speed Jason"... 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20291 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 22:50:26 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 22:50:26 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9025 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 22:49:59 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 22:49:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TWBS-0003A9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:47:58 +0000 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TWBR-0003A4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:47:58 +0000 Received: from pickmere.demon.co.uk ([158.152.117.143]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 16TWAd-000GGC-0K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:47:08 +0000 Message-ID: <9UudvkAEPxT8Ewn2@pickmere.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:49:24 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M.J.Powell" Subject: Re: LF: Soldering down fine-pitch parts References: <200201231621.g0NGLk401787@galahad.joust.net> In-reply-to: <200201231621.g0NGLk401787@galahad.joust.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: snip >Any human attempt at laying these things down will always result >in a long period of squinting, cleaning and picking between its teeth >with a scalpel, including this, but it is amazing how well this horrible >method works. Never lost a device. Oh, except for the dsp on which >a mold ejection dimple was more prominent than the 'pin 1' marker, >resulting in an 80-pin part glued on 180 degrees out . . . Reminds me of the day I soldered a 32 core cable into a 32 pin plug, then found that I'd forgotten to slide on the cover first... All done in the dark sitting on an upturned waste-paper basket with a torch in my mouth. Mike -- M.J.Powell From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23938 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 21:52:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 21:52:03 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27618 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 21:52:07 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 21:52:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TVDC-0002z8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:45:42 +0000 Received: from mail-7.tiscalinet.it ([195.130.225.153] helo=mail.tiscalinet.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TVDC-0002yv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:45:42 +0000 Received: from orion.pii.net (62.11.68.241) by mail.tiscalinet.it (5.5.053) id 3C0343CC016B65B4 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:44:22 +0100 Received: (from clapo@localhost) by orion.pii.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id WAA00264 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:53:27 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on Linux X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:53:27 +0100 (CET) From: "Claudio" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Jason is easy and cheap! Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Just received M0BMU beacon with a minumum station! This is a good test for the receiving station to be exposed the next week-end in hamfest! I hope for some signal in the week-end for our show. A tuned loop on my balcony, 100 meters of SAT-TV cable, homemade direct conversion RX, an old savaged 100MHz Pentium with 16 Mb ram... Yes, some errors but a very good Euro/error ratio! some garbage...DE MBMU JASON92U0BMU JASON92 DE M0BMU M0BMU JASON92 DE M0BMU M0BMU JASON92 M0BMU M0BMU JASON92 M0BMU M0BMU SON92 M0BMU M0BMU JASON92 QRV2300Z ON 135990 DE M0BMU SK Now I try again with a more performant computer! 73 de Claudio ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Claudio Pozzi http://www.qsl.net/ik2pii happy Linux user E-Mail: Claudio Date: 23-Jan-02 Time: 22:39:39 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21164 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 21:50:46 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 21:50:46 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26184 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 21:50:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 21:50:49 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TVBT-0002yX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:43:55 +0000 Received: from rhun.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.26]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TVBS-0002yS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:43:54 +0000 Received: from srv17slx.esoterica.pt (srv17slx.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.47]) by rhun.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g0NLh5L14880 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:43:05 GMT Received: from slave-6 (por039.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.39]) by srv17slx.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g0NLh4217204 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:43:04 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020123214318.00956cf0@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:43:18 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: Jason Tests In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20020123175959.00ac4190@gemini.herts.ac.uk> References: <3.0.5.32.20020123170746.0095d4b0@pop3.esoterica.pt> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Jim and Group, Report of test on my web pages. Jason is brilliant. 73, Brian At 18:08 23/01/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Dear LF Group, > >I'll try to run the Jason beacon from about 2000utc until 2100 or so on >135.910kHz, and from 2300 until 0100 or later on 135.990kHz, just for a >change and to see if this frequency is an improvement. The wind here seems >to be getting up, so I may not be able to put up my mast, in which case the >signal will be about 4dB down on normal. Any reports would be welcome. > >Cheers, Jim Moritz >73 de M0BMU > > > > 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3537 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 21:43:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 21:43:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 12694 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 21:43:08 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 21:43:08 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TV8n-0002xz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:41:09 +0000 Received: from d12lmsgate-3.de.ibm.com ([195.212.91.201]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TV8m-0002xl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:41:08 +0000 Received: from d12relay02.de.ibm.com (d12relay02.de.ibm.com [9.165.215.23]) by d12lmsgate-3.de.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id WAA87298 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:39:48 +0100 Received: from usa.net (ss2.pok.socks.ibm.com [9.14.3.67]) by d12relay02.de.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0NLeo168810 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:40:51 +0100 Message-ID: <3C4F2E45.F7FB0C45@usa.net> Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:42:29 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Jason Tests References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020123175959.00ac4190@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz wrote: > I'll try to run the Jason beacon from about 2000utc until 2100 or so on > 135.910kHz Perfect copy in Italy Jim, no need this time to attach a screen capture. Thanks. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2667 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 21:33:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 21:33:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 2155 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 21:33:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 21:33:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TUzC-0002vt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:31:14 +0000 Received: from fep03.swip.net ([130.244.199.131] helo=fep03-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TUzB-0002vo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:31:13 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.13.137]) by fep03-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020123213025.NVXX1728.fep03-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:30:25 +0100 Message-ID: <014201c1a455$3ea71fc0$890d97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020123175959.00ac4190@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Subject: Re: LF: Jason Tests Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:30:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jim, I heard your CW ID simultaneously with the Jason signal!? (outside the "yellow lines" of course). Are you using a linear P.A. and add the CW as audio to the Jason soundcard output? >...M0BMU JASON92 QRV 2300Z ON 135990 DE M0BMU SK 135990 is clean here. I'll take a look 2300Z 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21305 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 21:12:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 21:12:40 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6027 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 21:12:44 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 21:12:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TUf9-0002s7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:10:31 +0000 Received: from smtp1.a1.net ([194.48.125.36] helo=mkisp29-mgt) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TUf8-0002rd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:10:30 +0000 Received: from qsl.net (L1169P10.dipool.highway.telekom.at [62.46.210.10]) by smtp1.a1.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GQE00B3WTF6U2@smtp1.a1.net> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:09:07 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:09:05 +0100 From: "Heinz Schnait" Subject: Re: LF: Jason Tests To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <3C4F2671.C442E4E7@qsl.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Accept-Language: de, en References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020123175959.00ac4190@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello all, I had solid copy of Jim, M0MBU, Jason V0.92, 135.910 on the spot between 2015Z - 2045Z. Screen capture available on request. My first copy of a Jason signal! I am surprised that my PII-350 works at the "normal" RX-Speed setting. This must be a borderline case! Thanks to Alberto for this great software! 73 Heinz, OE5EEP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10807 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 21:08:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 21:08:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 11657 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 21:08:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 21:08:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TUa9-0002r8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:05:21 +0000 Received: from fep01.swip.net ([130.244.199.129] helo=fep01-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TUa7-0002r3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:05:19 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.13.137]) by fep01-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020123210427.ODGY560.fep01-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:04:27 +0100 Message-ID: <011a01c1a451$9e10ec60$890d97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020123175959.00ac4190@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Subject: Re: LF: Jason Tests Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 22:04:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------010604090109060901040005" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010604090109060901040005 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Jim, >Any reports would be welcome. Part of Jason screen is attached. Displayed time is UTC+1h. 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network); 23 Jan 2002 20:25:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 20:25:28 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3754 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 20:25:32 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 20:25:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TTvx-0002fq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:23:49 +0000 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TTvw-0002fl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:23:49 +0000 Received: from host213-122-47-61.btinternet.com ([213.122.47.61]) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16TTv9-00022P-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:23:00 +0000 From: "Nick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: Radiated power Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:18:36 +0000 Message-ID: References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9974@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> In-reply-to: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9974@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:16:45 -0000, you wrote: > >Take the plunge. Get yourself a good headband magnifier A hint for the skinflints among us. You can now buy 'non-prescription' reading glasses from places like Boots at up to 3 diopter for a very reasonable price. Unless you already wear strong glasses and want the extra magnification these are every bit as good as a headband magnifier and more convenient to wear. Just get the strongest they have and give them a try. Nick From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6507 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 20:14:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 20:14:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 18735 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 20:14:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 20:14:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TTjv-0002cy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:11:23 +0000 Received: from fep01.swip.net ([130.244.199.129] helo=fep01-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TTju-0002ct-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 20:11:23 +0000 Received: from W98 ([213.101.37.181]) by fep01-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020123201033.NSQS560.fep01-svc.swip.net@W98> for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:10:33 +0100 Message-ID: <004c01c1a44a$1b078f60$b52565d5@W98.swipnet.se> From: "C Andersson" To: "RSGB LF Group" Subject: LF: QTP Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 21:11:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: If anyone cares, I'm signing off this list now. Too much nonsense. /Christer SM6PXJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9287 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 19:13:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 19:13:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 2052 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 19:13:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 19:13:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TSmz-0002SQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:10:29 +0000 Received: from mta8-svc.virgin.net ([62.253.164.48]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TSmy-0002SL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:10:28 +0000 Received: from roy ([80.1.2.142]) by mta8-svc.virgin.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20020123190939.QUTQ7993.mta8-svc.virgin.net@roy> for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:09:39 +0000 Message-ID: <002201c1a441$6dea84c0$8e020150@roy> From: "HighGain" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200201221939_MC3-EEEC-40FD@compuserve.com> Subject: LF: Re: Can not balme you... Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 19:09:05 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I and most of it has nothing to do with LF, VLF. Just crap and personal attacks. I am very disappointed... But not surprised. Here it also on Air. And they talk about new stations and slag the Foundation license holders off ? Regards & Best Wishes Roy MM0LOS SNIP SNIP > > > It is with regret that I must withdraw from the LF net. 73 and good luck, Roger, G2AJV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22542 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 18:20:38 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 18:20:38 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 25703 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 18:20:38 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 18:20:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TRqg-0002Gr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:10:14 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TRqf-0002Gm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:10:13 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16TRpt-0004us-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:09:25 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16TRps-00059v-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:09:25 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020123175959.00ac4190@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:08:39 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: Jason Tests In-reply-to: <3.0.5.32.20020123170746.0095d4b0@pop3.esoterica.pt> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, I'll try to run the Jason beacon from about 2000utc until 2100 or so on 135.910kHz, and from 2300 until 0100 or later on 135.990kHz, just for a change and to see if this frequency is an improvement. The wind here seems to be getting up, so I may not be able to put up my mast, in which case the signal will be about 4dB down on normal. Any reports would be welcome. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10040 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 17:30:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 17:30:13 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1907 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 17:30:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 17:30:13 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TR0D-00025F-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 17:16:01 +0000 Received: from e31.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.129]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TR0C-000259-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 17:16:00 +0000 Received: from westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com [9.99.140.22]) by e31.co.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA90752 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 12:11:58 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss6.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.71]) by westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0NHEtH25164 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 10:14:56 -0700 Message-ID: <3C4EEF7A.4A6E7A14@usa.net> Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 18:14:34 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: SMT Devices References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020123111503.00af6ec0@POP2.sympatico.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Larry Kayser wrote: > My list of opcodes > was a type written list and it took three months work to get this little > darling to print out the first "A" on an ancient Chicago Teletype Corp > Model 33 printer. This reminds me of my first experiments with a uP board, one that, I am sure, will awake many memories in our UK friends, the Nascom 1... I bought it in London, in kit form, during a trip there. It was Z80-based, 1 kB of RAM, and I hand-assembled the programs for it, computing all the branch offsets by hand... imagine the joy when you had to insert new instructions in the middle of the program... but I managed to stuff an RTTY decoder in that 1 kB... then I bought the 32 kB expansion, a luxury indeed, the assembler program, and the fun ended...:-) I still have it, in my nostalgia department... 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4028 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 16:34:07 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 16:34:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26896 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 16:33:40 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 16:33:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TQAO-0001pG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:22:28 +0000 Received: from tomts8.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.52] helo=tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TQAN-0001pA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:22:27 +0000 Received: from server1.sympatico.ca ([216.209.138.142]) by tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020123162137.UYQG16860.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1.sympatico.ca> for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:21:37 -0500 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020123111503.00af6ec0@POP2.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1aemm59@POP2.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:21:19 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Larry Kayser" Subject: Re: LF: RE: SMT Devices In-reply-to: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9976@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.go v.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >Andy: >There was a techniques described a couple of years ago for using these chips >dead bug style. Mount the chip upside down on a piece of unetched PCB. >Bend the grounding pins down and solder directly to the groundplane. This is how I built my first Intel 4004 back in 1972. My list of opcodes was a type written list and it took three months work to get this little darling to print out the first "A" on an ancient Chicago Teletype Corp Model 33 printer. Three more months and some additional memory it was controlling the OSCAR VI satellite for me (which I did for over 5 years hi). We had raging debates in a local eatery on the use of the different opcodes. We set the clock with 74121's with a scope and pots, with the two phase overlapping timing used to drift and eventually the thing would stop working at times. Dead bug work here goes back a long way hi. It takes a lot of courage to work for weeks and then turn it on to see if you "got it right"!!!! Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17428 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 16:31:57 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 16:31:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 25244 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 16:31:57 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 16:31:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TQD5-0001qm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:25:15 +0000 Received: from tomts17-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.71]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TQD4-0001qe-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:25:14 +0000 Received: from server1.sympatico.ca ([216.209.138.142]) by tomts17-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020123162423.XILN16289.tomts17-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1.sympatico.ca>; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:24:23 -0500 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020123112149.00a5f050@POP2.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1aemm59@POP2.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:24:05 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Larry Kayser" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Radiated power In-reply-to: <3C4ED015.B72B9259@usa.net> References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9974@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >Alberto: > thanks for the encouragement. I think to have a steady hand, so will >buy one of those nice moveable round neon lamps with a magnifier inside, >an ultrafine tip for my Weller soldering station, and start practicing with >dead bugs, errr chips... Good News, glad u will try it, I like the VK board I just saw..... The only real risk is if you get the soldering iron defocused and you stick it into your nose! I did this a few times and it really stings, I put a wire shield over the work area such that the iron can not come UP, and if I touch the wire I can feel it and know I am going the wrong way hi. The stings only last for a few days hi Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4229 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 16:27:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 16:27:52 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 20745 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 16:27:51 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 16:27:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TQ9W-0001ow-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:21:34 +0000 Received: from [204.202.140.198] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TQ9U-0001ob-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:21:33 +0000 Received: from gomailjtp05 ([10.212.0.165]) by mta06.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GQE00K86FXAIP@mta06.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 08:17:34 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 08:17:29 -0800 (PST) From: "John Sexton" Subject: Re: Re: LF: Jason Tests To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <3485981.1011802649753.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Jim, I too saw your signal with Jason v0.92 last night. Of course it was perfect at this range so there didn't seem much point in giving a report. Like you I saw nothing of IK2DED, but that might be because I had forgotten to change to the Slow Option, thinking that it was kept from run to run once it had been set. A 233 MHz Pentium is not fast enough for the Normal (fast) option unfortunately. When Johan can get round to coding the new PIC software I will have a go at transmitting using my G0MRF DDS, but for now am keen to listen for some remote stations. Looks like the frequencies are agreed, we just need some schedules please? 73 John, G4CNN -----Original Message----- From: "James Moritz" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed Jan 23 04:45:40 PST 2002 Subject: Re: LF: Jason Tests >Dear LF Group,> >Thanks to I2PHD, DJ8WX, NL9222, G3NYK for the reports and images, and to >anybody else who was watching for my Jason v0.92 test sigs. I transmitted >on 137.510 from about 2030 - 2210, and on 135.910 from about 2300 - 0200. > >I also looked out for IK2DED from 2000 until 2030, but saw nothing - not >surprising bearing in mind the message Alberto copied! F6BWO was active >around 136.922 with QRSS10. I saw an unidentified "digital" signal on about >136.8, which appeared as about 7 or 8 carriers spaced over about 100Hz - >after a while, this reverted to a single carrier. Also saw another >"digital" signal, presumably SXV on about 135.7 - this appeared as a large >number of carriers spaced a few Hz and occupying about 100Hz bandwidth, >sounding like a lot of RTTY signals having an argument. > >I can run the beacon again tonight in anyone is interested - is 135.910kHz >a good frequency, or is there a better one? > >Cheers, Jim Moritz >73 de M0BMU > > ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24217 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 16:24:52 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 16:24:52 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17436 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 16:24:51 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 16:24:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TQAa-0001pQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:22:40 +0000 Received: from galahad.joust.net ([63.108.136.2] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TQAX-0001pJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:22:38 +0000 Received: from benny-hill (p2-138-039.joust.net [63.108.138.39]) by galahad.joust.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g0NGLk401787 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:21:46 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <200201231621.g0NGLk401787@galahad.joust.net> Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:20:35 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Steve Dove" Subject: LF: Soldering down fine-pitch parts X-Mailer: Opera 5.02 build 856a X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings, I find the best tool for sticking down fine-pitch parts is an intern. But that's cheating, really. There is one truly gruesome, cringe-worthy technique that I've used when pushed, and always successfully, to stick dsps and fpgas down. It takes a bit of nerve. With best eyeballs, aided or otherwise, line up the chip onto the pads; restrain it (g-cramp etc.) such that it won't budge. With a normal-sized iron (no need for a really teensy tip at this point) solder all the pins along each side in turn down onto all the pads; the result will be a solid bar of solder along each side of the chip, engulfing the pins. Naturally, don't go overboard, but all the adjacent pins will be stuck to each other as well as the pins being stuck to their appropriate pads. Try not to panic or cry. The next phase is to use solder-wick (the real stuff, not coax braid) to drain off the excess solder; gently slide the wick in line with the pins, not sideways 'against the grain', methodically around the chip. Use a magnifying glass to peer between the pins for sneaky bridges; wick more if you have to. Any human attempt at laying these things down will always result in a long period of squinting, cleaning and picking between its teeth with a scalpel, including this, but it is amazing how well this horrible method works. Never lost a device. Oh, except for the dsp on which a mold ejection dimple was more prominent than the 'pin 1' marker, resulting in an 80-pin part glued on 180 degrees out . . . Cheers, Steve From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8002 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 16:19:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 16:19:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 29853 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 16:19:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 16:19:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TQ3A-0001mI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:15:00 +0000 Received: from he102war.uk.vianw.net ([195.102.249.209]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TQ39-0001mC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:14:59 +0000 Received: from [195.102.193.244] (helo=compaq) by he102war.uk.vianw.net with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #5) id 16TPzO-0005hc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:11:07 +0000 Received: from local-ip[x.x.x.x] by compaq; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:05:24 +0000 Message-ID: <011901c1a420$8bf543e0$0300a8c0@hf> From: "Paul Phillips" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.5.32.20020122110006.009b6630@pop3.esoterica.pt> <5.1.0.14.0.20020123072004.00af8730@POP2.sympatico.ca> <3C4EB37C.1DE72C84@usa.net> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Radiated power Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:13:43 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Alberto di Bene wrote: > > I have in my drawer an AD9854, obtained as sample from Analog Device. > Problem is, I am horrified at the very thought of having to produce a PCB > for it, let alone soldering it.... SMD make life difficult for the hobbyists, I am > afraid.....:-( > > 73 Alberto I2PHD > > The bare JNT PCB is available from HF Instruments. I don't know if the chip is pin-compatible. You can solder it on with a steady hand and a fine soldering iron (if you're careful). Andy JNT managed it with a home-made PCB! Also, HF will be getting some more 9850s in about 2 weeks time. 73 Paul Phillips G4KZY From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15536 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 16:18:01 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 16:18:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10149 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 16:18:04 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 16:18:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TPxV-0001ks-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:09:09 +0000 Received: from tomts13.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.34] helo=tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TPxU-0001kn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:09:08 +0000 Received: from server1.sympatico.ca ([216.209.138.142]) by tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020123160816.CSIM1750.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1.sympatico.ca> for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:08:16 -0500 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020123105222.00a5b6a0@POP2.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1aemm59@POP2.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:06:58 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Larry Kayser" Subject: LF: Reference Osc. Waveform In-reply-to: <3C4ED015.B72B9259@usa.net> References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9974@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings All: This discussion of DDS chips reminds me of a problem I have here. I have two, very nice TOYOCOM TCO-512K oscillator modules. I want to put these to work here. The output waveform looks like this on the Scope I have here x x x x x x x x x x x etc. The waveform looks almost exactly like a right angle triangle. x x x x xxxxxxx xxxxxxx ^ ^ ^ The up arrows are the beginning of a cycle, the middle of the cycle, the end of the cycle. What will this type of waveform do to the 9850? Does the 9850 want a 50% duty cycle? or can I put this kind of wave form into the 9850 without risk? These are very high quality units, they were the frequency determining elements in an early analogue cellular radio system (Swedish system), but I am at a loss to understand this waveform on the output. I have tried different loadings on the output (10K to 50 ohms) and it seems to stay very close to the same, If this waveform is not suitable is there a simple way to add something to make the waveform a square wave with 50% duty cycle? Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13198 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 16:02:16 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 16:02:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9398 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 16:02:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 16:02:16 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TPoD-0001gX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:59:33 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TPoC-0001gS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:59:32 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16TPnN-0001hm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:58:41 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16TPnN-0002N5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:58:41 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020123154726.00a97de8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:57:55 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: Jason Tests In-reply-to: <3.0.5.32.20020123135050.009a9dc0@pop3.esoterica.pt> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020123122418.00b0bc60@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <3.0.1.16.20020123094440.2d17c80e@pb623250.kuleuven.be> <3C4DB13D.B1B47595@netscapeonline.co.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020122153052.00aa9420@gemini.herts.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 13:50 23/01/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Dear Jim, > > >I can run the beacon again tonight in anyone is interested - is 135.910kHz > >a good frequency, or is there a better one? > >May I look at it the other way? 137.5xxx is an absolute mass of lines here. > >73, Brian >73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W >http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian Dear Brian, So if I transmit a beacon signal on 135.91 at around 2000utc this evening, would that be OK? Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22897 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 15:52:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 15:52:04 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 26115 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 15:51:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 15:51:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TPdX-0001cI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:48:31 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TPdW-0001cA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:48:30 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id PAA01172; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:57:36 GMT Received: (qmail 4299 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 16:36:17 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 16:36:17 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id QAA28269; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:05:11 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma028211; Wed, 23 Jan 02 16:04:38 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:53:56 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:47:06 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9976@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: SMT Devices Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:47:03 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >Are you aware of any possibility to buy online a PCB ready made >for the AD9854 ? It would suffice a layout that brings all the pins >to more manageable pads where to connect the rest of the circuit. >I checked the Analog Devices site, but they have (for an outrageous >price...) only an evaluation board for the 9854, complete with the chip. There was a techniques described a couple of years ago for using these chips dead bug style. Mount the chip upside down on a piece of unetched PCB. Bend the grounding pins down and solder directly to the groundplane. Then get some 0805 chip capacitors and solder one end of these, standing upright, to the groundplane as close to the power supply pins as possible. Then using thin wire - eg a single strand of multistranded wire - connect the appropriate pins direct to the caps; then the signal pins to the rest of the circuit. This can give an RF layout every bit as good as a proper double sided PCB. It looks messy, but so what, it works ! >> In my last job I did a bit of chip and bond microwave circuitry. Now that >> really IS small ! Bonding 25 micron gold wire onto 0.1mm pads on bare >> GaAsFET chips. >I hope you didn't do that with unaided hands... otherwise I will dub >you SuperMan..:-) No, sorry, we had a lab wirebonder. It always needed cleaning before use as there was inevitably some individual that had left it in a dirty state with the covers off. Andy -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18612 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 15:48:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 15:48:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 5818 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 15:48:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 15:48:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TPaM-0001bo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:45:14 +0000 Received: from antiochus-fe0.ultra.net ([146.115.8.188]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TPaK-0001bg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:45:13 +0000 Received: from comrex (207-172-255-233.s1249.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.255.233]) by antiochus-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n20340/mtc.v2) with SMTP id KAA03337 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 10:43:51 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005501c1a425$53133f00$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9974@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> <3C4ED015.B72B9259@usa.net> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Radiated power Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 10:47:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alberto, > Are you aware of any possibility to buy online a PCB ready made > for the AD9854 ? No endorsement, but noticed this on one of the newsgroups a few weeks ago: http://members.iinet.net.au/~richardh/VK6BRO.htm John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25503 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 15:08:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 15:08:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4466 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 15:08:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 15:08:41 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TOut-0001S9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:02:23 +0000 Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.101]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TOur-0001S1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:02:22 +0000 Received: from northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (northrelay01.pok.ibm.com [9.117.200.21]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA237328 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:57:58 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss6.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.71]) by northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0NF0wi115122 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 10:00:58 -0500 Message-ID: <3C4ED015.B72B9259@usa.net> Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 16:00:37 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Radiated power References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9974@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Larry Kayser wrote: > My sense is that if I can do it almost anyone can. Talbot Andrew wrote: > Take the plunge. Get yourself a good headband magnifier and a fine bit for > your soldering iron. Larry and Andy, thanks for the encouragement. I think to have a steady hand, so will buy one of those nice moveable round neon lamps with a magnifier inside, an ultrafine tip for my Weller soldering station, and start practicing with dead bugs, errr chips... But one problem remain. I have produced myself some PCBs using the photosensitive lacquer on the laminated copper, exposing, then etching it. But this technique, coupled with the limited resolution of the ink jet or laser printers that can be used to produce the master, is not precise enough for such fine and closely spaced fingers... Are you aware of any possibility to buy online a PCB ready made for the AD9854 ? It would suffice a layout that brings all the pins to more manageable pads where to connect the rest of the circuit. I checked the Analog Devices site, but they have (for an outrageous price...) only an evaluation board for the 9854, complete with the chip. > In my last job I did a bit of chip and bond microwave circuitry. Now that > really IS small ! Bonding 25 micron gold wire onto 0.1mm pads on bare > GaAsFET chips. I hope you didn't do that with unaided hands... otherwise I will dub you SuperMan..:-) 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26739 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 15:03:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 15:03:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27663 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 15:02:43 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 15:02:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TOqI-0001Pi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:57:38 +0000 Received: from europa.your-site.com ([140.186.45.14]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TOqH-0001Pd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:57:37 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.180.100]) by europa.your-site.com ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:56:43 -0500 Message-ID: <3C4ECF38.707FFB60@att.net> Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:56:56 +0000 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Jason Tests References: <3C4DB13D.B1B47595@netscapeonline.co.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020122153052.00aa9420@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020123122418.00b0bc60@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz wrote: > > I can run the beacon again tonight in anyone is interested - is 135.910kHz > a good frequency, or is there a better one? > Jim, I was watching your frequency last night but saw nothing identifiable. I have loran lines close to .910 that are strong enough to make JASON copy difficult. I spent some time moving up the band looking for a better frequency. For me 135.990 is about the best I found between 135.900 to 136.000 but even so that frequency isn't clear. No need to move on my account for tonight since there will probably be a lot of QRN in my area. I will continue to look at the band for a slot that is clear here. Dexter From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2751 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 14:51:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 14:51:28 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 12691 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 14:51:00 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 14:51:00 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TOdJ-0001NN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:44:13 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TOdI-0001NI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:44:12 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id OAA28820; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:53:19 GMT Received: (qmail 1111 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 15:32:01 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 15:32:01 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id PAA24184; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:00:55 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma024174; Wed, 23 Jan 02 15:00:31 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:49:48 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:42:58 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9975@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Subject : Subject lines Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:42:56 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Now I've fallen into the trap and done it myself !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! :-(( We need to check the subject line of messages when posting to this reflector. There have been a whole string of interesting postings about DDS's, all with the "Radiated power" subject line - which normally would get deleted unread here. Let's see how many postings have the subject "Re:Subject : Subject lines" :-) Andy 'JNT -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 871 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 14:22:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 14:22:25 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 4443 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 14:21:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 14:21:57 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TOEC-0001Hw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:18:16 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TOEA-0001Hq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:18:14 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id OAA12332; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:27:09 GMT Received: (qmail 32663 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 15:05:50 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 15:05:50 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id OAA22600; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:34:44 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma022594; Wed, 23 Jan 02 14:34:24 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:23:41 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:16:50 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9974@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re: Radiated power Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:16:45 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >Problem is, I am horrified at the very thought of having to produce a PCB >for it, let alone soldering it.... SMD make life difficult for the hobbyists, I am >afraid.....:-( >Alberto I2PHD Take the plunge. Get yourself a good headband magnifier and a fine bit for your soldering iron. The standard 1.27mm pin spacing SMT devices are then no trouble. But I have to admit the 0.635 spacing of these DDS chips does need a steady hand. In my last job I did a bit of chip and bond microwave circuitry. Now that really IS small ! Bonding 25 micron gold wire onto 0.1mm pads on bare GaAsFET chips. Some amateurs are doing this now, (using surplus wire bonders), to get on the 76GHz band. Andy G4JNT -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24190 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 14:15:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 14:15:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28420 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 14:15:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 14:15:15 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TO4V-0001Em-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:08:15 +0000 Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.101]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TO4U-0001Ec-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:08:14 +0000 Received: from northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (northrelay01.pok.ibm.com [9.117.200.21]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA98366 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:03:51 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss6.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.71]) by northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0NE6qi25776 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:06:52 -0500 Message-ID: <3C4EC368.1DDAF0AE@usa.net> Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 15:06:32 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Digital Sine Generators References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Klaus von der Heide wrote: > Hello and thanks for the replies! > > As a lecturer, I never present all that can be said, and when > posting the idea of a DDS basing on the Chinese Remainder Theorem, > I hoped to get response. And it was my feeling, Alberto will ask, > how to get the phase increment. He did it, and Zim contributed the > example and a very useful link. Thanks! That is encouragement > to set my priorities new. > [...] Klaus, thanks for the explanations. Waiting for your promised post, as I happen to have Matlab 5.0, I would like to receive your interactive course on the subject. And please enclose also the Matlab routine to solve the diophantine equation (shades of Fermat, I do hope it won't require an homomorphism with the modular forms...:-) to find the base step generators for the sin/cos tables. Thanks 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4982 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 14:08:19 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 14:08:19 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22595 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 14:08:19 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 14:08:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TNzp-0001EB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:03:25 +0000 Received: from tomts12.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.56] helo=tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TNzn-0001E5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:03:24 +0000 Received: from server1.sympatico.ca ([216.209.110.73]) by tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020123140233.HCYB18287.tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1.sympatico.ca> for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:02:33 -0500 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020123084227.00af3ec0@POP2.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1aemm59@POP2.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:02:15 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Larry Kayser" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Radiated power In-reply-to: <3C4EB37C.1DE72C84@usa.net> References: <3.0.5.32.20020122110006.009b6630@pop3.esoterica.pt> <5.1.0.14.0.20020123072004.00af8730@POP2.sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 01:58 PM 2002/01/23 +0100, Alberto di Bene wrote: >Larry Kayser wrote: > > > If you can get the 51, grab it, if you can get the 52, 53 or 54 grab the > > highest number you can. each one is better than my 9250. The higher > > numbers let you use a lower reference frequency for controlling a higher > > output frequency , ie much greater than .45 of the reference frequency for > > the 9250. > > > >I have in my drawer an AD9854, obtained as sample from Analog Device. >Problem is, I am horrified at the very thought of having to produce a PCB >for it, let alone soldering it.... SMD make life difficult for the >hobbyists, I am >afraid.....:-( Alberto: I had one of the kit G4JNT boards and I looked at it and nearly died with fright. I have vision limitations here, and my stiff old fingers are not much good anymore....but I borrowed the some optics, from my local physician and I practiced on some dead MODEM and LAN Cards and I bought some special tiny tips for my Ungar soldering iron, some special tiny solder, some special liquid flux (for electronic work) and I managed to get the 9850 into the right place. I put in several hours with the lamps moving them around inspecting the slots between the foils and the now soldered wire pins. I found one bad one, and with about half an hour I managed to do the trick of cleaning out the bridge. I had zero problem getting the SMD parts into place after getting the 9850 stuck in the right place. I had to use three different B&L eyepieces to see the 9850 stuff, and it took practice to miss the eyepiece and hit the 9850 wire pin with the soldering iron, but I did it and it works. The biggest trick here, was to get the PC pads for the 9850 tinned and in place and then to hold the 9850 still while I got the three of the corners soldered down, once that was done it was smooth sailing so to speak. The process is to setup a work facility, old plywood and drywall screws so the work is at the right height when I am sitting down and then to make up the bits and jigs to hold everything in place. I made good use of my Dremmel tool to fabricate the little clamp bits etc. One thing I did was make a place in the box I built for my table here was a place to put my chin so I could hold my head still. This was very important for me. Yes it was certainly not my choice of activity but I did get it done. My sense is that if I can do it almost anyone can. I used to watch a guy who did actual repairs to the dice in IC's. He used to put spare gates and transistors around the outside of experimental IC's and then when an error was found he would "repair" the IC, now he had it rough. I figured if he could pull that off I could repair anything built with those things hi. Lets put it this way, if you try and succeed then you have an AD9854 with its I and Q outputs, and I would prefer you to have a 9854 with those capabilities hi. Alternatively you could send the 54 to Andy and he would I am sure get it going, or as a last case you can send me the 54 and I will take a run at it. You have options hi. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29330 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 13:55:23 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 13:55:23 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10838 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 13:55:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 13:55:23 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TNoF-0001AD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:51:27 +0000 Received: from rhun.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.26]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TNoE-0001A8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:51:27 +0000 Received: from srv17slx.esoterica.pt (srv17slx.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.47]) by rhun.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g0NDob122412 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:50:37 GMT Received: from slave-6 (por052.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.52]) by srv17slx.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g0NDob528345 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:50:37 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020123135050.009a9dc0@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:50:50 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: Jason Tests In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20020123122418.00b0bc60@gemini.herts.ac.uk> References: <3.0.1.16.20020123094440.2d17c80e@pb623250.kuleuven.be> <3C4DB13D.B1B47595@netscapeonline.co.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020122153052.00aa9420@gemini.herts.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Jim, >I can run the beacon again tonight in anyone is interested - is 135.910kHz >a good frequency, or is there a better one? May I look at it the other way? 137.5xxx is an absolute mass of lines here. 73, Brian 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7493 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 13:20:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 13:20:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 13975 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 13:20:09 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 13:20:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TNHm-00013F-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:17:54 +0000 Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.101]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TNHk-00012G-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:17:52 +0000 Received: from northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (northrelay01.pok.ibm.com [9.117.200.21]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA447944 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 08:13:28 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss6.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.71]) by northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0NDGTi148414 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 08:16:29 -0500 Message-ID: <3C4EB79A.D4724190@usa.net> Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:16:10 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Jason Tests References: <3C4DB13D.B1B47595@netscapeonline.co.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020122153052.00aa9420@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020123122418.00b0bc60@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------070204030703090806070303" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070204030703090806070303 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit James Moritz wrote:
Thanks to I2PHD, DJ8WX, NL9222, G3NYK for the reports and images, and to
anybody else who was watching for my Jason v0.92 test sigs. I transmitted
on 137.510 from about 2030 - 2210, and on 135.910 from about 2300 - 0200.
Jim,
  perfect copy also at 135.910...

Your signal wasn't audible aurally, but you were right on spot on frequency,
so I didn't even need to do fine tuning with the mouse.
Thanks fior the tests, let's hope now for T/A...
BTW,  SXV was very strong here yesterday evening

73  Alberto  I2PHD
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excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 13:11:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27882 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 13:11:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 13:11:46 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TN6w-0000yu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:06:42 +0000 Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.101]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TN6v-0000yo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:06:41 +0000 Received: from northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (northrelay01.pok.ibm.com [9.117.200.21]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA362328 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 08:02:18 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss6.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.71]) by northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0ND5Ii148330 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 08:05:19 -0500 Message-ID: <3C4EB4FB.49E9E931@usa.net> Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 14:04:59 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Freedom... References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9971@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Talbot Andrew wrote: > The first URL seems to require getting a Yahoo ID and entering a lot of > information I'm not preparred to give - is this necessary ? > > The second URL seems a lot easier - just asking for an EMail address. I have already an Yahoo ID and tried to post to that group. Unfortunately the post was rejected, being it in HTML (it contained a small captured image). It is a vexata quaestio (latin for debated problem) whether HTML posts should be allowed or not in discussion groups. My personal opinion is yes, but I can understand the position of the nay-sayers. There is not an easy answer... 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 602 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 13:02:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 13:02:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18443 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 13:02:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 13:02:06 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TN0l-0000wh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:00:19 +0000 Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.101]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TN0k-0000wF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:00:18 +0000 Received: from northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (northrelay01.pok.ibm.com [9.117.200.21]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA433244 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 07:55:55 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss6.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.71]) by northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0NCwti101128 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 07:58:56 -0500 Message-ID: <3C4EB37C.1DE72C84@usa.net> Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 13:58:36 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.79 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Radiated power References: <3.0.5.32.20020122110006.009b6630@pop3.esoterica.pt> <5.1.0.14.0.20020123072004.00af8730@POP2.sympatico.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Larry Kayser wrote: > If you can get the 51, grab it, if you can get the 52, 53 or 54 grab the > highest number you can. each one is better than my 9250. The higher > numbers let you use a lower reference frequency for controlling a higher > output frequency , ie much greater than .45 of the reference frequency for > the 9250. > I have in my drawer an AD9854, obtained as sample from Analog Device. Problem is, I am horrified at the very thought of having to produce a PCB for it, let alone soldering it.... SMD make life difficult for the hobbyists, I am afraid.....:-( 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9815 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 12:50:13 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 12:50:13 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 19396 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 12:49:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 12:49:42 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TMoZ-0000tf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 12:47:43 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TMoY-0000ta-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 12:47:42 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16TMnl-0002zD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 12:46:53 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16TMnk-0005Iv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 12:46:52 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020123122418.00b0bc60@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 12:45:40 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: Jason Tests In-reply-to: <3.0.1.16.20020123094440.2d17c80e@pb623250.kuleuven.be> References: <3C4DB13D.B1B47595@netscapeonline.co.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020122153052.00aa9420@gemini.herts.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Thanks to I2PHD, DJ8WX, NL9222, G3NYK for the reports and images, and to anybody else who was watching for my Jason v0.92 test sigs. I transmitted on 137.510 from about 2030 - 2210, and on 135.910 from about 2300 - 0200. I also looked out for IK2DED from 2000 until 2030, but saw nothing - not surprising bearing in mind the message Alberto copied! F6BWO was active around 136.922 with QRSS10. I saw an unidentified "digital" signal on about 136.8, which appeared as about 7 or 8 carriers spaced over about 100Hz - after a while, this reverted to a single carrier. Also saw another "digital" signal, presumably SXV on about 135.7 - this appeared as a large number of carriers spaced a few Hz and occupying about 100Hz bandwidth, sounding like a lot of RTTY signals having an argument. I can run the beacon again tonight in anyone is interested - is 135.910kHz a good frequency, or is there a better one? Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18077 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 12:36:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 12:36:16 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 21242 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 12:36:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 12:36:16 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TMWl-0000ni-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 12:29:19 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TMWi-0000nd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 12:29:17 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id MAA09884; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 12:38:22 GMT Received: (qmail 28462 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 13:17:04 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 13:17:04 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id MAA16981; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 12:45:58 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma016971; Wed, 23 Jan 02 12:45:35 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 12:34:52 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 12:28:01 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9971@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Freedom... Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 12:28:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The first URL seems to require getting a Yahoo ID and entering a lot of information I'm not preparred to give - is this necessary ? The second URL seems a lot easier - just asking for an EMail address. Andy G4JNT -----Original Message----- From: Steve Olney [mailto:ollaneg@zeta.org.au] Sent: 22 January 2002 21:03 now seems an appropriate time to repeat the invitation to join the "LF Experimenters Group". This group has been running for almost 3 years now To subscribe go to:- http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lofexp/ or http://www.zeta.org.au/~ollaneg/lf/lofexp.htm -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26838 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 12:28:56 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 12:28:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 2063 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 12:28:28 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 12:28:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TMRG-0000nE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 12:23:38 +0000 Received: from tomts7.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.40] helo=tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TMRF-0000n8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 12:23:37 +0000 Received: from server1.sympatico.ca ([216.209.110.187]) by tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020123122245.ZOXX18463.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1.sympatico.ca>; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 07:22:46 -0500 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020123072004.00af8730@POP2.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1aemm59@POP2.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 07:22:27 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Larry Kayser" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Radiated power In-reply-to: <3C4D4B91.1864291A@usa.net> References: <3.0.5.32.20020122110006.009b6630@pop3.esoterica.pt> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Brian and Alberto: > > Last but not least, if anybody has an AD9850 from HF Instruments > > which is excess to their requirements please e-mail me directly. > > Apparently HF Instruments have just sold their last unit. > >They said the same to me, but they added that they have the AD9851 >model, which is an AD9850 plus an internal clock multiplier. If you can get the 51, grab it, if you can get the 52, 53 or 54 grab the highest number you can. each one is better than my 9250. The higher numbers let you use a lower reference frequency for controlling a higher output frequency , ie much greater than .45 of the reference frequency for the 9250. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4693 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 10:19:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 10:19:34 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27915 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 10:19:06 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 10:19:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TKL0-0000Rq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 10:09:02 +0000 Received: from heavymetal.isc.de ([195.64.96.45] helo=mail1.isys.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TKKz-0000Rl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 10:09:01 +0000 Received: from [195.64.97.15] (helo=k) by mail1.isys.net with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 16TKKA-0000vM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:08:10 +0100 From: "Klaus von der Heide" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 11:08:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Digital Sine Generators X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello and thanks for the replies! As a lecturer, I never present all that can be said, and when posting the idea of a DDS basing on the Chinese Remainder Theorem, I hoped to get response. And it was my feeling, Alberto will ask, how to get the phase increment. He did it, and Zim contributed the example and a very useful link. Thanks! That is encouragement to set my priorities new. My problem is lack of time. So, what I shall do is: first try to answer your questions here directly, and second, hopefully, post something in a readable form later somewhere. Indeed, Chapter 12 of my course material on Digital Signal Processing is "Direct Digital Synthesis". The material is completely made for interactive e-learning. It is not public domain, but for private use in the ham-radio area, I have no problem to send it on request. But it requires MATLAB (5.0 or higher, Student Edition works o.k.). You will not be able to see the text or any of the graphs and movies or hear the audio or change anything interactively without MATLAB. The Chapter 12 alone containes nearly a hundred computer pages, all in German, sorry. To press this into a stone-aged dead read-only paper is not so easy. Now to the question of Alberto: Let z(k) (k=1,...,n) be n different numbers that are used as length of cos/sin-tables and let p(k) be the natural phase increments within these tables. No two of the z(k) should have any factor in common. Prime numbers for p(k) are optimal for best SFDR, but not required. For shortness, we set Z = product of all z(k). To get the p(k), two steps have to be done: (1) Determine the p(k) for generation of the smallest possible positive frequency, the frequency step df = fs/Z (fs = sampling frequency). We denote them p1(k). (2) Determine the p(k) for generation of frequency f = m * df . Let me start with the second (2). The p(k) are simply m*p1(k). But m and p1(k) possibly are large, so the angles m*p1(k) can be very large, i.e. many wrap-arounds in the table of length z(k) plus a remainder. We therefore only take the remainder: p(k) = remainder of division ( m*p1(k) / z(k) ) Example: n=3; z(1)=29; z(2)=83; z(3)=599; Z=1441793; p1(1)=8; p1(2)=45; p1(3)=109; fs = 11025 Hz; df = 11025/1441793 = 0.007647 Hz f = 800 Hz; m = round(f/df) = 104620; p(1)= remainder of division ( 8 * 104620) / 29 = 20 p(2)= remainder of division ( 45 * 104620) / 83 = 57 p(3)= remainder of division (109 * 104620) /599 = 417 Proof: The three individual tables yield with the computed increment the frequencies fs*20/29=7603.4; fs*57/83=7571.4; fs*417/599=7675.2 Hz The sum of them modulo the sampling frequency fs is 800.000763 Hz. Because the signals are complex (cos + i*sin) there is no alias or mirror within the frequency interval 0 ... fs. The computation (1) of the p1(k) is not so easy, but it has to be done only once. The table k with the increment p1(k) yields the relative frequency f1(k)/fs = p(k)/z(k). The product of all complex (cos + i*sin)-waves gives the sum of all these frequencies. This sum must be equal to the relative frequency step df/fs = 1/Z. Multiplying the resulting equation by Z yields remainder of ( sum of all Z*p1(k)/z(k) ) / Z ) = 1 This is an equation that is to be solved with natural numbers p1(k). Equations of this type are called diophantine after Diophantos from Alexandria. Zim found the link to a mathematical discussion of this problem by E.L. Lady. I made a simple MATLAB-function that solves the problem. It is available on request. And here the answer to John, G4CNN My post surely was a bit cryptic and misunderstanding was probable. Indeed, the frequency is divided in steps of fs/29 by the first generator. But the others are in parallel, and not serial. So they generate fs/83 and fs/599 as their frequency steps, not a finer and finer division of the first. Therefore the Chinese Remainder Theorem is required, but you are right, prime numbers are not necessary. Sorry for the cryptic assembly program. It performs the two complex multiplications and additions per otput sample and in parrallel the 6 table look ups, the 3 phase increments, and the write into an output buffer with auto-increment of its address. It is fascinating for me to see all the many parts of the old DSP-architecture 100% busy in every clock cycle, such that this processor can generate sin and cos up to an output frequency of 2.5 MHz with a processor clock of 40 MHz. Now the question of Zim Received: (qmail 25226 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 08:52:40 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 08:52:40 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 20500 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 08:52:44 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 08:52:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TJ63-0000Fa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 08:49:31 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TJ62-0000FV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 08:49:30 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g0N8mAVY103576 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:48:11 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20020123094440.2d17c80e@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 09:44:40 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Jason Tests / PSK31 In-reply-to: <3C4DB13D.B1B47595@netscapeonline.co.uk> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020122153052.00aa9420@gemini.herts.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >I cannot see any advantage using Jason with a 4 hz BW over QRS using >a fraction of this. The only difference is that Jason goes 5 times faster than QRSS (at same SNR). Or if you want ho transmit a certain text within a certain timeframe, Jason will produce a 7dB better SNR compared to QRSS. To achieve 7dB improvement by just increasing power I would have to go from the current 400W I'm running to 2kW, so Jason has clearly a big advantage for me (and maybe I'm not the only one). I really appreciate the work done by the software developers (such als Alberto and Wolf) and those who often do the first tests and investigate propagation (many at both sides of the pond ...). They pave the path that other (such as xxx) can easily walk on afterward. 73, Rik From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17384 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 06:44:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 06:44:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 15559 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 06:44:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 06:44:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TH39-0008Ty-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 06:38:23 +0000 Received: from mail008.syd.optusnet.com.au ([203.2.75.232]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TH37-0008Tt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 06:38:22 +0000 Received: from CO3043446A (c22590.sunsh1.vic.optusnet.com.au [203.164.134.8]) by mail008.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g0N6bU808507 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 17:37:30 +1100 Message-ID: <005701c1a3d8$e96924d0$0886a4cb@CO3043446A> From: "Graeme Zimmer" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5820836.1011716921516.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> Subject: Re: LF: Digital Sine Generators Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 17:40:56 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Klaus, Like John G4CNN, I have been thinking about your CRT DDS scheme.. Firstly, a rather long winded recap on DDS/NCO operation: Assuming a simple DDS with an 8 bit latch and an 8192 Hz clock. With the smallest possible increment (one), the counter goes through 256 steps before wrapping around the unit circle. At each step the Latch reading is used to look up a value in the ROM. The ROM table contains one full cycle of a Sine Wave. With an Increment of one, the output goes through a full Sinewave every 256 clock pulses and thus (in our example) generates 32 Hz. The maximum possible output frequency is where only two steps occur each unit circle, thus the Max frequency is half the clock frequency (4096Hz). This occurs at an increment of 128. Intermediate steps thus give an output range from 32Hz to 4096Hz, with 128 steps every 32Hz. (The frequency step size is given by dividing the Clock frequency by the max latch count). In the special case where the increment value is a power of two (1,2,4,8,16, etc), the DDS steps land exactly on the minima and maxima of the wave (eg includes counts of 0, 64, 128, 193, 256). At all other frequencies the samples miss the min/max/zero and thus the output contains some jitter (unless considerable "Q" is available to act as a Flywheel). The above is (I think) the Address Quantitisation which Klaus mentions. I am guessing that Klaus has discovered a system where the effective Latch size is changing for each different frequency, thus ensuring that the generated wave always has samples at the peaks and troughs. Is this correct so far Klaus ??? But then perhaps I am on the wrong track completely. ............................. Zim From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3855 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 00:45:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 00:45:08 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6999 invoked from network); 23 Jan 2002 00:44:39 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jan 2002 00:44:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TBTg-0007lu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 00:41:24 +0000 Received: from siaag1aa.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TBTf-0007lp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 00:41:23 +0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1aa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id TAA23940 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 19:40:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 19:39:05 -0500 From: "boffin1" Subject: LF: unsubscribe To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200201221939_MC3-EEEC-40FD@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: It is with regret that I must withdraw from the LF net. My computer gets choked up with far too many messages if I am away for even a short while. I remain at this email address for any personal messages. 73 and good luck, Roger, G2AJV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29190 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 23:34:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 23:34:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 11418 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 23:34:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 23:34:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TANj-0007XH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 23:31:11 +0000 Received: from latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.40]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16TANi-0007XC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 23:31:11 +0000 Received: from erica (tnt-1-74.easynet.co.uk [195.40.206.74]) by latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 26D0053E8B for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 23:30:20 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000401c1a39d$4d1fb0c0$4ace28c3@erica> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020120184653.00a411b0@mail.pncl.co.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020121134048.00aa7958@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <3C4D7524.F7D8A146@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: For the record Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 23:33:24 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > This power measuring game could throw up some surprises !!!!! especially with so > many JEEPS about !! Bang goes my New Year's resolution. I did say that I would never get involved in this awful KEV stuff that is polluting our reflector, but feel that I must say something. Otherwise you get the situation (as history shows) where if a lie is told often enough it becomes the 'truth'. Real truth is worth defending. As regards transmitted power, as we are all aware (except for one) ERP is a function of transmitted power and antenna size - the larger the antenna the less power is required to reach the 1w ERP level. For a suburban sized antenna you need a transmitter power greater than 1kW and several high power transmitters were built. Two of these, one by G3KAU and the other by G3YXM are shown in "The Low Frequency Experimenter's Handbook" pages 12 and 40. An interesting design was shown in the "LF Experimenter's Source Book" (forerunner of LFEH) by G3LNP which ran 4kV to the anode of a QYS-3000 to produce 3kW O/P. He had calculated he needed that sort of power to get 1w ERP from a simple vertical antenna. By making the Decca transmitters available, G3JKV made a valuable contribution to the LF community by showing us commercial design techniques, such as the PA bridge configuration, tank circuit design and guard circuit that were subsequently incorporated into the G4JNT high power transmitter. I use a Decca transmitter but find it difficult to hit 1w ERP level. The antenna is shown on page 57 of LFEH and has a calculated gain of -24dB1. With 6.5amps I get a calculated 1.49w into the radiation resistance of the antenna. However environmental effects such as trees reduce this by about a half, which gives an ERP of around 800mW. This sort of power is only achieved when the weather is relatively dry. G3KEV's antenna has been described many times but the power and the antenna current have not. The antenna is described as: "The antenna I have been using for the recent Transatlantic QSO'S consists of 4 inverted L's supported by a lattice tower at 105 ft high. Each L is 105 ft vertical and each one has a horizontal top section of 300 ft. The 4 vertical bottom ends converge to a common feed point 4 ft above ground, connected to about 400 micro henry loading coil and has a small series coil to ground used for resonating and fine tuning to get a 1:1 SWR. Ground Radials consist of several 300 ft insulated wires, some connected at the far end to sheep fencing. All the wire for antennas and radials is 2.5 mm insulated. The 4 inv L's are spaced at 90 degrees from each other around the tower." This antenna has a calculated gain (assuming good ground) of -16.6dBi. I am not sure what transmitter is being used but a couple of years ago it was 400w. If this were connected to the antenna it would result in antenna current of 3.5A and a calculated 3.8w into the radiation resistance of the antenna. However if there are tall trees around the site this could reduce it to around 2w ERP. G3KEV has recently discovered transatlantic QSOs using QRSS: "Solid fast QRS qso with VE1ZJ at 2 sec dot, almost there on normal CW. The xband QSO only took a few minutes 136/7025 kHz solid copy both ways. I understand previous QSO's took hours and days to complete." The only QSO that I am aware of that took place over days was the 136kHz 2 way between G3AQC and VA3LK. My QSOs, according to the log are as follows: 29/9/00 VE1ZJ on 14.043kHz, G3LDO on QRSS3, QSO time around 20mins 13/2/01 VE1ZZ on QRSS3, G3LDO on QRSS10, 136kHz 2 way. (VE3ZJ receiver link via 80m) QSO time 50mins 21/2/01 VE1ZZ on QRSS3 136kHz G3LDO on 3512kHz QSO time 15mins. I am not getting involved in this stuff any more - I will go and join the silent majority. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18017 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 21:55:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 21:55:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9268 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 21:55:52 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 21:55:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16T8pH-0007Il-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 21:51:31 +0000 Received: from mailout09.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.84]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16T8pE-0007Ig-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 21:51:28 +0000 Received: from fwd09.sul.t-online.de by mailout09.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16T8oP-0004rY-04; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 22:50:37 +0100 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.227.109.100]) by fwd09.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16T8oC-1PoeMiC; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 22:50:24 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020122153052.00aa9420@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Subject: Re: LF: Jason Tests / PSK31 X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------040103040001080303050802" Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 22:50:24 +0100 Message-ID: <16T8oC-1PoeMiC@fwd09.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040103040001080303050802 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit James Moritz schrieb: > Dear LF Group, > > I successfully tested Jason 0.92 with 1.2kW TX out last night (If anyone > was listening, at around 0400 - don't ask!). So I will give it a go tonight > if anyone is interested. I will try and catch IK2DED on 137.52 - otherwise > I'll try 137.510kHz. The frequency seems to be accurate within 1Hz or so, > although it is a bit hard to tell. The waterfall display looks a lot > clearer in the latest version, and the USB/LSB options checked out fb as well. > > If any of the North American guys would like to try for trans-atlantic > Jason reception, I could run a beacon signal for a few hours around > midnight - frequency perhaps 135.910 (4Hz BW). Let me know if this is of > any interest, and whether this frequency is any good at your end. > > BTW, I think I asked before, but don't recall any responses - can anyone > recommend PSK31 software that has the TX phase keying signal available as a > logic level output? Since my TX will generate BPSK with appropriate > envelope shaping I would like to try this mode; but a sound card output > would be a bit messy - demodulate the audio signal, recover the phase data, > feed into LF TX modulator... a bit of wire would be so much easier! > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > Hi Jim, cnfm ur transmission on 137.51kHz. see attached pic. regards Uwe/dj8wx --------------040103040001080303050802 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="M0BMU3.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="M0BMU3.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAYEBQYFBAYGBQYHBwYIChAKCgkJChQODwwQFxQY GBcUFhYaHSUfGhsjHBYWICwgIyYnKSopGR8tMC0oMCUoKSj/2wBDAQcHBwoIChMKChMoGhYa KCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCgoKCj/wAAR CABeAgYDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA AgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkK FhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWG 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X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26641 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 21:29:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 21:29:22 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16T8PZ-0007Df-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 21:24:57 +0000 Received: from d12lmsgate.de.ibm.com ([195.212.91.199]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16T8PX-0007DY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 21:24:55 +0000 Received: from d12relay02.de.ibm.com (d12relay02.de.ibm.com [9.165.215.23]) by d12lmsgate.de.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id WAA224296 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 22:23:35 +0100 Received: from usa.net (ss4.pok.socks.ibm.com [9.14.3.69]) by d12relay02.de.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0MLOQ6157806 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 22:24:32 +0100 Message-ID: <3C4DD8ED.FD8AAA97@usa.net> Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 22:26:05 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: IK2DED & M0BMU received in Jason References: <3C4DD7F2.2D300ADF@usa.net> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------070404060509040806020704" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070404060509040806020704 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Probably my previous message exceeded the reflector limit
of 30 kB. Let's try with this one.
---
Good reception of Giulio IK2DED with only 20W and Jim
M0BMU in jason, just a few minutes ago.

73  Alberto  I2PHD
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3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 19424 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 21:24:57 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 21:24:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16T8Lf-0007DQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 21:20:55 +0000 Received: from d12lmsgate-3.de.ibm.com ([195.212.91.201]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16T8Lc-0007DL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 21:20:52 +0000 Received: from d12relay02.de.ibm.com (d12relay02.de.ibm.com [9.165.215.23]) by d12lmsgate-3.de.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id WAA10942 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 22:19:28 +0100 Received: from usa.net (ss4.pok.socks.ibm.com [9.14.3.69]) by d12relay02.de.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0MLKF6139644 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 22:20:21 +0100 Message-ID: <3C4DD7F2.2D300ADF@usa.net> Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 22:21:54 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: IK2DED & M0BMU received in Jason Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------050104090400040905000100" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050104090400040905000100 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Good reception of Giulio IK2DED with only 20 W
and Jim M0BMU in Jason, just a few minutes ago.

73  Alberto  I2PHD
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Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9010 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 21:08:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 21:08:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 22390 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 21:08:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 21:08:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16T85f-0007AD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 21:04:23 +0000 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16T85d-0007A8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 21:04:22 +0000 Received: from steve (ppp193.dyn154.pacific.net.au [210.23.154.193]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA12453 for ; Wed, 23 Jan 2002 08:03:29 +1100 Message-ID: <00b701c1a388$4885e9e0$c19a17d2@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: "RSGB LF Group" Subject: LF: Freedom... Date: Wed, 23 Jan 2002 08:03:29 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear All, now seems an appropriate time to repeat the invitation to join the "LF Experimenters Group". This group has been running for almost 3 years now and has been very successful for exchanging information pertaining to LF, including newbie help, discussions of new experimental efforts and notification of test schedules. It has a wide mix of subscribers from all over the world. The group runs under a strict "Freedom of Association" policy requiring members to allow others to use the group without fear of abuse, derision or petty jealousy exchanges. This policy has been respected without any need for intervention by all members for nearly three years. It has been proven that it can be done. To subscribe go to:- http://groups.yahoo.com/group/lofexp/ or http://www.zeta.org.au/~ollaneg/lf/lofexp.htm Interested parties might start by parallel posting and over time do a comparison of speed and quality and freely make their own assessment. 73s Steve Olney (VK2ZTO/AXSO - QF56IK : Lat -33 34 07, Long +150 44 40) ============================================= HomePage URL: http://www.zeta.org.au/~ollaneg Containing:- ULF, ELF, VLF & LF Experimentation MF 22m Experimentation InfraSonic Experimentation Laser Comms DX ============================================= From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12501 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 20:55:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 20:55:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 2574 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 20:55:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 20:55:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16T7pS-000760-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 20:47:38 +0000 Received: from postfix2-1.free.fr ([213.228.0.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16T7pR-00075t-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 20:47:37 +0000 Received: from biggun (nas-cbv-3-136-129.dial.proxad.net [62.147.136.129]) by postfix2-1.free.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id CDFFF530; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 21:46:46 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000201c1a385$eb13b640$8188933e@biggun> From: "f6kaw" To: "liste atv" , "liste 136khz" Subject: LF: w32/magister_b cured....our apologies... Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 21:44:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit

Dear LF group....
 
 Last week, we were infected by W32/magister_b virus, and some part of messages were send nearly everywhere... now, the PC is cured and we want to apologize for the problem we could cause to the list....
    To solve the problem, we had a look at http://updates.pandasoftware.com/  and used the freeware utility called  PQREMOVE  + the name of the virus......
 
    Hope it will be the last time.....
 
  Sorry again and 73's to all.....
                                                             The members of the radio club
 
In French now....
 
   Bonsoir a tous...
 
    La semaine derniere, nous avons ete infecté par W32/Magister_b, et pas mal de bribes de messages ont etes envoyes un peu partout....Pour resoudre le probleme, nous avons ete sur le site mentionné plus haut,ou ils mettent a la disposition un petit utilitaire pour solutionner le probleme...il tiend compte de pas mal de BDTRANS, kak, love letters et autres petites plaisanteries de ce style....
 
   Avec toutes nos excuses......73 a tous......               les membres du radio club
 
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1748 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 19:26:20 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 19:26:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28740 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 19:19:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 19:19:33 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16T6NK-0006sH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 19:14:30 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16T6NJ-0006sC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 19:14:29 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16T6MX-0007fm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 19:13:41 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16T6MW-0006vT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 19:13:41 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020122190734.00a6ee30@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 19:12:51 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: Jason Tests / PSK31 In-reply-to: <3C4DB13D.B1B47595@netscapeonline.co.uk> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020122153052.00aa9420@gemini.herts.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Mal, LF Group, At 18:36 22/01/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Dont swamp the QRS operators with 4hz B/W signal around 135.923 >plus/minus, this >has happened >before with the 7 level fsk, and is not appreciated. To night there is >also psk31 >around this freq area. >If its going to be a free for all in this area I and others may as well try , >Ptor,Packet and SSB. >Either stick to some sort of frequency plan or be prepared for the worst, >and dont >forget blah blah blah blah blah blah blah... So I'll take that as a tentative "yes" then? I'll try 135.910kHz +/- for a couple of hours at least starting from 2300. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8170 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 19:10:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 19:10:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 4815 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 19:10:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 19:10:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16T6Df-0006qr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 19:04:31 +0000 Received: from cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16T6De-0006qm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 19:04:30 +0000 Received: from modem-30.eilenach.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.176.30] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 16T6Cp-0006ao-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 19:03:39 +0000 Message-ID: <002e01c1a377$90b066c0$05e9fea9@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. Radiated power. Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 19:03:31 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Amongst other things Mal said:-
>A QSO is allowed to take days and weeks to complete by joining bit and peices
heard/seen each day until a full callsign is put together.<
This allegation is totally untrue as was demonstrated at the last HF convention.
Each exchange was complete and in sequence !  We have ARGO captures to prove this.
I hope this can be an end to these futile allegations. This reflector should be used for more productive purposes.
73s Laurie. 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16905 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 19:10:51 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 19:10:51 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4753 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 19:10:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 19:10:55 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16T63a-0006nb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 18:54:06 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16T63Z-0006nW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 18:54:05 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16T62m-0007BZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 18:53:16 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16T62m-0006ZD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 18:53:16 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020122183106.00aa41f0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 18:51:32 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: Big signal In-reply-to: <3C4D7524.F7D8A146@netscapeonline.co.uk> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020120184653.00a411b0@mail.pncl.co.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020121134048.00aa7958@gemini.herts.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Mal, LF Group, At 14:20 22/01/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Ref your recent power measurements on the MM0ALM signal and observations. >I have measured you power and observed two readings. One set of figures during >daytime and weekend normal CW acty and another at night when you are on beacon >for TA tests on QRS and Measles mode. >You obviously keep the power down during normal CW but at night you are very >strong. I will not >declare here what the figures are but what measurements would you expect me to >get at this distance During the day, I use my 8m high, 40m long inverted L. At night, while the neighbors can't complain about aerials spoiling the view, I put up a 13m high mast under the middle of the top wire, raising it up into an inverted L configuration. This increases the radiated signal level by about 4dB over the daytime level. I'm sure most readers of this reflector heard quite enough about the 300+ field strength measurements I made on this antenna a few months ago to establish ERPs, losses, etc., but suffice it to say that on 136k, running my maximum 1200W, my "daytime" ERP is 400mW, and "night time" ERP is 1W. On wet days, these levels fall by a dB or two due to increased losses. So what's your ERP? Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19815 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 18:46:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 18:46:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28745 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 18:44:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 18:44:56 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16T5oN-0006kY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 18:38:23 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16T5oM-0006kT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 18:38:22 +0000 Received: from ldsas01-65-116-202.cw-visp.com ([212.137.116.202] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16T5ci-0006kd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 18:26:21 +0000 Message-ID: <3C4DB13D.B1B47595@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 18:36:45 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Jason Tests / PSK31 References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020122153052.00aa9420@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz wrote: > Dear LF Group, > > I successfully tested Jason 0.92 with 1.2kW TX out last night (If anyone > was listening, at around 0400 - don't ask!). So I will give it a go tonight > if anyone is interested. I will try and catch IK2DED on 137.52 - otherwise > I'll try 137.510kHz. The frequency seems to be accurate within 1Hz or so, > although it is a bit hard to tell. The waterfall display looks a lot > clearer in the latest version, and the USB/LSB options checked out fb as well. > > If any of the North American guys would like to try for trans-atlantic > Jason reception, I could run a beacon signal for a few hours around > midnight - frequency perhaps 135.910 (4Hz BW). Let me know if this is of > any interest, and whether this frequency is any good at your end. > > BTW, I think I asked before, but don't recall any responses - can anyone > recommend PSK31 software that has the TX phase keying signal available as a > logic level output? Since my TX will generate BPSK with appropriate > envelope shaping I would like to try this mode; but a sound card output > would be a bit messy - demodulate the audio signal, recover the phase data, > feed into LF TX modulator... a bit of wire would be so much easier! Dont swamp the QRS operators with 4hz B/W signal around 135.923 plus/minus, this has happened before with the 7 level fsk, and is not appreciated. To night there is also psk31 around this freq area. If its going to be a free for all in this area I and others may as well try , Ptor,Packet and SSB. Either stick to some sort of frequency plan or be prepared for the worst, and dont forget Jim your signal at night time when you QRO or wind your antenna up, you are nearly as strong here as MM0ALM, except he does not work in this area and swamp others. Pick another frequency up the band preferably above 137 khz and there should not be a problem using Jason. I cannot see any advantage using Jason with a 4 hz BW over QRS using a fraction of this. For the appliance operator it is more convenient, you do not have to struggle reading the dots and dashes off the screen. G3KEV > > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19706 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 18:16:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO guinness.servers.plus.net) (212.159.3.230) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 18:16:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 20640 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 18:03:18 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (212.172.148.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 18:03:18 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16T5LZ-0006fz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 18:08:37 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16T5LY-0006fu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 18:08:36 +0000 Received: from ldsas20-84-135-27.cw-visp.com ([212.137.135.27] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16T59p-0004bq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 17:56:30 +0000 Message-ID: <3C4D7524.F7D8A146@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 14:20:20 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Big signal References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020120184653.00a411b0@mail.pncl.co.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020121134048.00aa7958@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz wrote: > Dear Mal, LF group, > > At 11:24 21/01/2002 +0000, you wrote: > >The DECCA JEEP alias 5501 tx, is a brother of the MARCONI JEEP alias T1154. > >Surprised you did not know this. Some say JEEP should read JUNK > > > Of course, any self-respecting, competent CW operator (well, allright, CW > and QRSS operator these days) would never consider anything less than a > MERCEDES JEEP... Spot on Jim. Ref your recent power measurements on the MM0ALM signal and observations. I have measured you power and observed two readings. One set of figures during daytime and weekend normal CW acty and another at night when you are on beacon for TA tests on QRS and Measles mode. You obviously keep the power down during normal CW but at night you are very strong. I will not declare here what the figures are but what measurements would you expect me to get at this distance I will tell you if you are correct. One thing I can say you are not far behind MM0ALM at night time. This power measuring game could throw up some surprises !!!!! especially with so many JEEPS about !! G3KEV > > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20059 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 17:44:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 17:44:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 2639 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 16:56:16 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 16:56:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16T40e-0006S4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 16:42:56 +0000 Received: from [204.202.140.198] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16T40c-0006Rz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 16:42:55 +0000 Received: from gomailjtp05 ([10.212.0.165]) by mta06.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GQC0022ALRX1T@mta06.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 08:28:45 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 08:28:41 -0800 (PST) From: "John Sexton" Subject: Re: LF: Digital Sine Generators To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <5820836.1011716921516.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Klaus, I have been trying to understand your scheme and find that: 1) The Chinese Remainder Theorem is not necessary, since the scheme will work even if the divisions are not co-prime. What you are effectively doing is dividing the frequency range of 11025 Hz into 29 steps, then each of these into 83 smaller steps and then each of these into 599 even smaller steps and it is obvious that this will cover the range whatever the 3 numbers are, but it would be best if they were multiple factors of 11025 so as to give integral steps, e.g. 105 x 105 x 200 which would make the smallest steps 5mHz. 2) You say that the "analytical outputs" (whatever they are) are multiplied together, whereas I find that if you add the fractions from your table for Jason and multiply by 11025 (modulo 11025) you obtain the frequencies listed in the table. The table entries for column 1 advance 3 , for column 2 go back 9 and for column 3 advance 3 for each step (modulo the column step size), so it is clearly arithmetic. 3) The error column appears to be in error. All the entries are almost the same and not the difference between the calculated value and that required for Jason. 4) The little program at the end would not be so obscure if it were written in plain language. If I am wrong you will surely tell me. The idea of using a Vernier though is a good one. By the way, the reference from Graeme Zimmer concerning the Chinese Remainder Theorem is excellent, very well expressed. The only thing that is missing is the method of finding the solution other than just trial and error, which is Euclid's Algorithm. Since this is hardly the place for lessons in Number Theory, I will refrain from explaining it. Anyone who really feels he needs to know can email me privately. Hope you find this helpful. 73 John, G4CNN -----Original Message----- From: "Klaus von der Heide" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon Jan 21 03:06:24 PST 2002 Subject: LF: Digital Sine Generators >> >Hello all in the group, > >If someone is interested in the following stuff, please e-mail. > >73 de Klaus, DJ5HG > >dj5hg@qsl.net >v.d.heide@on-line.de >heide@informatik.uni-hamburg.de > >------------------------------------------------------------- > >Digital Sin/Cos-Synthesis using the Chinese remainder theorem >============================================================= > >A fundamental discussion upon the principles and drawbacks of >Direct Digital Synthesis about one and a half year ago on this >reflector inspired me to an investigation in this field. >A number-theoretic approach led me to a new synthesis that >in most cases is superior to classic DDS in three respects: >Spurious free dynamic range (SFDR), speed, and requirement of >memory. > >This is not the place for a full discussion. But the principle >is simple: >In place of one single sin-table of length equal a power of 2 >take a few cos/sin-tables of different prime-number-lengths >and use them for parallel cos/sin-generation with individual >phase accumulators. The analytical outputs then are all >multiplied. >The smallest frequency step is the sampling frequency divided >by all the table lengths. The Chinese Remainder Theorem >guarantees that all multiples of the frequency step can be >realized. > >The Advantages are: >(1) There is no address quantization as in classic DDS. >(2) The table lengths is not a power of two which leads > to spurs in classic DDS at frequencies m*2^-n times > the sampling frequency (small integers m,n). >(3) The implementation on DSPs is extraordinary simple > and fast. > >Example: Generation of the 17 tones of Jason at fs = 11025 Hz. >My choice of three cos/sin table lengths is: 29, 83, 599. >The frequency step then is 11025/29/83/599 = 0.007647 Hz. > >Phase Accu Step in Table resulting frequency SFDR > 1 2 3 frequency error dB >------------------------------------------------------------ > 25 46 393 797.982027 0.000764 154.5 > 28 37 396 798.234369 0.000764 154.2 > 2 28 399 798.486711 0.000764 153.7 > 5 19 402 798.739053 0.000764 154.4 > 8 10 405 798.991395 0.000764 154.1 > 11 1 408 799.243737 0.000763 153.1 > 14 75 411 799.496079 0.000763 154.1 > 17 66 414 799.748421 0.000763 154.2 > 20 57 417 800.000763 0.000763 153.9 > 23 48 420 800.253105 0.000763 154.1 > 26 39 423 800.505447 0.000763 154.1 > 0 30 426 800.757789 0.000762 158.2 > 3 21 429 801.010131 0.000762 153.1 > 6 12 432 801.262473 0.000762 153.9 > 9 3 435 801.514815 0.000762 154.2 > 12 77 438 801.767157 0.000762 154.0 > 15 68 441 802.019499 0.000762 153.7 > >On my old DSP56002 it takes 8 instructions per sample and >requires 2*(29+83+599) = 1422 words of memory for the tables. >The spurious free dynamic range (SFDR) for this implementation >in 24-bit-arithmetic is given in the table. It increases with >6 dB per additional bit to infinity because there is no >approximation. The kernel of the program to compute n4 >samples by two complex multiplications of three complex >table lookups each is: > > do n4,loop > mpy x1,y1,a ab,l:(r4)+ > mpy x1,y0,b y:(r0)+n0,x0 > macr -x0,y0,a y:(r2),y0 > macr x0,y1,b a,x1 > mpy x1,y0,b b,x0 > mpy -x0,y0,a x:(r2)+n2,y1 > macr x1,y1,a x:(r0),x1 > macr x0,y1,b l:(r1)+n1,y >loop > >That's in short. >--------------------------- END ------------------------------ > ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25852 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 16:14:41 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 16:14:41 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 19151 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 16:14:43 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 16:14:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16T3Oe-0006ML-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 16:03:40 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16T3Od-0006MG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 16:03:39 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16T3Nq-0001Pj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 16:02:50 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16T3Np-0002rO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 16:02:49 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020122153052.00aa9420@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 16:01:59 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: Jason Tests / PSK31 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, I successfully tested Jason 0.92 with 1.2kW TX out last night (If anyone was listening, at around 0400 - don't ask!). So I will give it a go tonight if anyone is interested. I will try and catch IK2DED on 137.52 - otherwise I'll try 137.510kHz. The frequency seems to be accurate within 1Hz or so, although it is a bit hard to tell. The waterfall display looks a lot clearer in the latest version, and the USB/LSB options checked out fb as well. If any of the North American guys would like to try for trans-atlantic Jason reception, I could run a beacon signal for a few hours around midnight - frequency perhaps 135.910 (4Hz BW). Let me know if this is of any interest, and whether this frequency is any good at your end. BTW, I think I asked before, but don't recall any responses - can anyone recommend PSK31 software that has the TX phase keying signal available as a logic level output? Since my TX will generate BPSK with appropriate envelope shaping I would like to try this mode; but a sound card output would be a bit messy - demodulate the audio signal, recover the phase data, feed into LF TX modulator... a bit of wire would be so much easier! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5092 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 13:58:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 13:58:32 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9941 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 13:58:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 13:58:31 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16T1OD-00061E-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 13:55:05 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16T1OB-000618-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 13:55:04 +0000 Received: from ldsas16-80-131-24.cw-visp.com ([212.137.131.24] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16T1CU-0001SV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 13:42:58 +0000 Message-ID: <3C4D6F11.C9F2AE13@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 13:54:25 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Radiated power References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020122083729.00a60ec0@mail.pncl.co.uk> <011e01c1a333$8e661980$a70b97d4@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Johan Bodin wrote: > Walter, > > > Jim measured 50 uV/m so MM0ALM's radiated power must be 10 dB below 1 kW - > > 100 watts. > > I would say 20dB below 1kW - 10 watts. > > 10dB less illegal but still too much... Walter. If you are so desperate to shoot the other man down please try and get your facts right, this is not the first time you got muddled figures. I suggest with your calculation there could be the usual plus/minus 10 db tolerance, and therefore the person to whom you refer would be running the permitted power. I do think one should stick to the permitted power but all amateur bands must be considered and not just LF. Why single out LF ? The specification for the majority of RF amplifiers advertised are at least twice the permitted power. and the Decca is no exception 1.2 kw plus output into a reasonable antenna would exceed the 1W erp. If some are claiming to be running less ERP then the antennas and ground radial system must be so inefficient and hardly worth the effort. I would not like to make a judgement about anyone and their power because it is so difficult to be accurate at a distance, theory and practical can be miles apart. If it could be proved that some were running over the permitted power to obtain awards, they should be disqualified, and that applies to all amateur bands, not just LF. Some claiming awards in the past on LF seem to set lower standards than on other bands. A qso is allowed to take days and weeks to complete by joining bits and pieces heard/seen each day until a full callsign is put together. It has been proved lately that this is not necessary and a qso TA for instance can take place in a very short space of time eg minutes and possibly a couple of hours for the slower QRS speeds. As far as I and other DXers that I speak to privately are concerned this extended qso business is not acceptable for any award, however if a group of persons want to make private rules and award each other presents then so be it, as long as others know there is another side to the story. G3KEV > > > 73 > Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18344 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 13:55:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 13:55:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 7511 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 13:55:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 13:55:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16T1Kx-00060j-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 13:51:43 +0000 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16T1Kw-00060e-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 13:51:42 +0000 Received: from host62-7-68-85.btinternet.com ([62.7.68.85] helo=default) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16T1K9-0007lQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 13:50:53 +0000 Message-ID: <002101c1a34b$c73fb3c0$5544073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: re OH1TN on PSK31 Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:36:52 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, Reino advises that he cannot work above about 136.8 due to the qrm from Sylt Loran and Utility stations. He is regularly active on morse in the early evening with a good signal, but does not seem to get many 'takers'. This shows why we cannot have a 'set in stone' plan for the band.....different areas have different problems. Cheers de Alan G3NYK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20697 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 12:26:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 12:26:39 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 13211 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 12:26:39 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 12:26:39 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Szwm-0005p5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 12:22:40 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Szwl-0005oz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 12:22:39 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id MAA10226; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 12:31:43 GMT Received: (qmail 27386 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 13:10:29 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 13:10:29 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id MAA00207; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 12:39:28 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma000189; Tue, 22 Jan 02 12:39:18 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 12:28:25 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 12:21:37 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9968@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re: Radiated power Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 12:21:36 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >> Apparently HF Instruments have just sold their last unit. >They said the same to me, but they added that they have the AD9851 >model, which is an AD9850 plus an internal clock multiplier. And goes to 180MHz clock frequency rather than 120MHz for the AD9850. The driver PIC software for the DDS module defaults to Multiplier Off, so the 9851 can be used as a drop in replacement. I can supply a version of the PIC software that sets the x6 multiplier On if anyone wants this. As W1TAG pointed out, a US colour (or should that be color :-) subcarrier crystal at 3.579...MHz can be pulled to give 'nice' frequency steps. When used with the x6 multiplier option it will result in a clock frequency that gives a DDS step interval of exactly 0.05Hz Andy G4JNT -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13180 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 12:12:39 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 12:12:39 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28103 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 12:12:39 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 12:12:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SzhH-0005mD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 12:06:39 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SzhG-0005m8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 12:06:38 +0000 Received: from blanch.pncl.co.uk (71.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.71]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g0MC5k416895 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 12:05:47 GMT Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020122120653.00a65720@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 12:07:47 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: A red face MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Yes, a very red face! No excuses. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2548 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 11:32:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 11:32:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24951 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 11:32:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 11:32:26 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Sz2D-0005fA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:24:13 +0000 Received: from e31.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.129]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Sz2C-0005f5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:24:12 +0000 Received: from westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com [9.99.140.22]) by e31.co.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA89764 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 06:20:18 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss4.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.69]) by westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0MBNHO89332 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 04:23:17 -0700 Message-ID: <3C4D4B91.1864291A@usa.net> Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 12:22:57 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Radiated power References: <3.0.5.32.20020122110006.009b6630@pop3.esoterica.pt> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Brian Rogerson wrote: > [...] > Last but not least, if anybody has an AD9850 from HF Instruments > which is excess to their requirements please e-mail me directly. > Apparently HF Instruments have just sold their last unit. They said the same to me, but they added that they have the AD9851 model, which is an AD9850 plus an internal clock multiplier. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24509 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 11:07:42 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 11:07:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22895 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 11:07:39 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 11:07:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Syg1-0005Xs-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:01:17 +0000 Received: from dargolad.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.27]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Syg0-0005Xn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:01:16 +0000 Received: from srv17slx.esoterica.pt (srv17slx.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.47]) by dargolad.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g0MB0R723513 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:00:27 GMT Received: from slave-6 (por117.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.117]) by srv17slx.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g0MB0Qr09629 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:00:26 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020122110006.009b6630@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:00:06 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: Radiated power In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.2.20020122083729.00a60ec0@mail.pncl.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >Perhaps anyone who thinks he's being slandered would publish full details >of his transmitter, antenna and earth system and let others make their own >judgements. Far better than just hurling insults around. > >Walter G3JKV. Thank you Walter. Living South of Staples Corner, I did consider finding out if what was said amounted to more than common abuse, but what would that have added to LF? What does this constant bickering add? A bit like the tabloids, spice on the mornings e-mails if that is what is sought but very annoying to some. More to the point, my monitoring system has a rebuilt computer which seems to be behaving so there is again a record of approximate field strength of various signals including the T/A slot. I am hoping to add a few more slots. I try to publish daily the last 24 hours recordings and Alan G3NYK has the data on DCF39 for long term analysis. Also for what it is worth there is a description of my station on the same web pages and it has been there since the site was established. Last but not least, if anybody has an AD9850 from HF Instruments which is excess to their requirements please e-mail me directly. Apparently HF Instruments have just sold their last unit. 73, Brian 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19683 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 11:05:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 11:05:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 3003 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 11:05:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 11:05:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SycS-0005VM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 10:57:36 +0000 Received: from fep01.swip.net ([130.244.199.129] helo=fep01-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SycR-0005VH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 10:57:35 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.11.88]) by fep01-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020122105647.FNZD560.fep01-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:56:47 +0100 Message-ID: <011f01c1a333$8fd75cc0$a70b97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020120184653.00a411b0@mail.pncl.co.uk> <5.1.0.14.2.20020121184212.00a5c060@mail.pncl.co.uk> <006601c1a2c0$7a28cf80$fa0a97d4@oemcomputer> <001501c1a328$7ae609c0$70a001d5@dave> Subject: LF: Re: Re: OH1TN calling CQ on PSK31! Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:56:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Dave > I assume on this frequency it was a test transmission. If he had been looking for a > QSO he would have operated in the data section (137.4-137.6). See > http://www.g3wkl.freeserve.co.uk/lf/136kHz.html Yes, according to a direct e-mail from Reino, this was a test transmission. I also heard him testing Jason later in the evening. He was struggling with the settings in Jason 0.92. He will try again tonight, hopefully with TX Mult. Factor = 1... (He is using a -10MHz transverter). 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15557 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 11:04:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 11:04:20 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 19200 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 11:04:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 11:04:16 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Syfe-0005WX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:00:54 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Syfd-0005WS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:00:53 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id LAA25587; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:09:58 GMT Received: (qmail 23761 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 11:48:44 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 11:48:44 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id LAA25227; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:17:44 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma025197; Tue, 22 Jan 02 11:17:16 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:06:22 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 10:59:34 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9965@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Radiated power Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 10:59:33 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: 20 LOG (V1/V2)= 20dB down About 10 Watts - but still a lot. We all fall into that dB trap from time to time I bet !!!!!!! Andy An interesting number: If Jim's measurement of MM0ALM's field strength is right, at 50 uV/m, and assuming the distance between them is 600 kms mainly over a standard medium-conductivity land path then : According to the CCIR standard propagation curves (Vol 5, "Propagation in non-ionised media", Recommendation 368-4) a radiated power of 1 kW at 136 kHz from a short vertically-polarised monopole would produce a field strength at Jim's distance of 500 uV/m. Jim measured 50 uV/m so MM0ALM's radiated power must be 10 dB below 1 kW - 100 watts. Jim's measurements I have found to be pretty accurate in the past but if anyone else can make accurate field strength measurements perhaps they would do so next time MM0ALM comes on. -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12896 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 11:03:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 11:03:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 18769 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 11:03:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 11:03:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SycQ-0005VF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 10:57:34 +0000 Received: from fep01.swip.net ([130.244.199.129] helo=fep01-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SycP-0005VA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 10:57:33 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.11.88]) by fep01-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020122105645.FNYY560.fep01-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:56:45 +0100 Message-ID: <011e01c1a333$8e661980$a70b97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020122083729.00a60ec0@mail.pncl.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Radiated power Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:47:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Walter, > Jim measured 50 uV/m so MM0ALM's radiated power must be 10 dB below 1 kW - > 100 watts. I would say 20dB below 1kW - 10 watts. 10dB less illegal but still too much... 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28982 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 10:47:28 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 10:47:28 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17268 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 10:47:26 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 10:47:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SyOg-0005Rh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 10:43:22 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SyOf-0005Rb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 10:43:21 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g0MAg1ko044238 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:42:03 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20020122113832.32cfb6fc@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:38:32 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Radiated power In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.2.20020122083729.00a60ec0@mail.pncl.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >According to the CCIR standard propagation curves (Vol 5, "Propagation in >non-ionised media", Recommendation 368-4) a radiated power of 1 kW at 136 >kHz from a short vertically-polarised monopole would produce a field >strength at Jim's distance of 500 uV/m. > >Jim measured 50 uV/m so MM0ALM's radiated power must be 10 dB below 1 kW - >100 watts. Jim's measurements I have found to be pretty accurate in the >past but if anyone else can make accurate field strength measurements >perhaps they would do so next time MM0ALM comes on. Hello Walter, Isn't 50uV/m 20dB down on 500uV/m ? So if 500uV/m equals 1kW raditated power then 50uV/m equals 10 Watt radiated power. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8179 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 10:23:13 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 10:23:13 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26828 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 10:22:48 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 10:22:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Sxwk-0005Lp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 10:14:30 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Sxwj-0005Lk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 10:14:29 +0000 Received: from blanch.pncl.co.uk (71.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.71]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g0MADd712726 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 10:13:39 GMT Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020122083729.00a60ec0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 10:07:40 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: Radiated power MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: An interesting number: If Jim's measurement of MM0ALM's field strength is right, at 50 uV/m, and assuming the distance between them is 600 kms mainly over a standard medium-conductivity land path then : According to the CCIR standard propagation curves (Vol 5, "Propagation in non-ionised media", Recommendation 368-4) a radiated power of 1 kW at 136 kHz from a short vertically-polarised monopole would produce a field strength at Jim's distance of 500 uV/m. Jim measured 50 uV/m so MM0ALM's radiated power must be 10 dB below 1 kW - 100 watts. Jim's measurements I have found to be pretty accurate in the past but if anyone else can make accurate field strength measurements perhaps they would do so next time MM0ALM comes on. I've made my own measurements and they agree with Jim's. I've also measured field strengths of a number of "local" stations and knowing exactly what they're using for transmitters and antenna systems the results tie up pretty closely (including, by the way, confirming G3AQC's statements about his power). NONE of the locals I measured were exceeding 1w radiated. What people choose to radiate is up to them and the RA but let's not have any boasting about DX worked when they've been using illegal powers. They should note that, as per above, and unlike HF, it is not that difficult to estimate pretty closely what they're radiating - one advantage of basing the licence on radiated and not "DC input" power. Of course, if MM0ALM holds a "high-power" NOV then good luck to him but he should declare it. Might also be worth noting that any DX records made while using illegal powers are invalid and will not be recorded. Perhaps anyone who thinks he's being slandered would publish full details of his transmitter, antenna and earth system and let others make their own judgements. Far better than just hurling insults around. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27308 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 10:18:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 10:18:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 672 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 10:18:10 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 10:18:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Sxsr-0005LI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 10:10:29 +0000 Received: from e31.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.129]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Sxsq-0005LD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 10:10:28 +0000 Received: from westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com [9.99.140.22]) by e31.co.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA36814 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 05:06:35 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss4.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.69]) by westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0MA9aO75702 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 03:09:37 -0700 Message-ID: <3C4D3A4C.C787AF0@usa.net> Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 11:09:17 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Mailing List" Subject: LF: Jason transmission Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello group, I have just received a message from Giulio IK2DED, a newcomer in the LF field, but well equipped, that this evening (Tuesday) he will make a transmission using Jason, from 20:00 to 20:30 UTC, at 137.520 kHz He asks for reception reports. Next Saturday and Sunday there will be an ham fair near Milano, and we have there a boot where we will show to the visitors the LF world (CW, QRSS, Jason, etc.) We have arranged some test transmissions from Giulio and maybe Cesare I5TGC, but you all are invited, if you can, to make the band a bit active on Saturday and Sunday using any Tx mode. Thanks. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 171 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 09:55:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 09:55:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 5383 invoked from network); 22 Jan 2002 09:54:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jan 2002 09:54:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SxLh-0005Fa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 09:36:13 +0000 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SxLg-0005FV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 09:36:12 +0000 Received: from host213-1-160-112.btinternet.com ([213.1.160.112] helo=dave) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16SxKt-0003Kj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 09:35:24 +0000 Message-ID: <001501c1a328$7ae609c0$70a001d5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020120184653.00a411b0@mail.pncl.co.uk> <5.1.0.14.2.20020121184212.00a5c060@mail.pncl.co.uk> <006601c1a2c0$7a28cf80$fa0a97d4@oemcomputer> Subject: LF: Re: OH1TN calling CQ on PSK31! Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 09:33:09 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: SM6LKM wrote: >OH1TN is calling PSK31 CQ in vain right now on 135.950-ish. I assume on this frequency it was a test transmission. If he had been looking for a QSO he would have operated in the data section (137.4-137.6). See http://www.g3wkl.freeserve.co.uk/lf/136kHz.html 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 231 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 21:47:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 21:47:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 12117 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 21:47:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 21:47:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SmEp-000445-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 21:44:23 +0000 Received: from fep03.swip.net ([130.244.199.131] helo=fep03-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SmEo-00043z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 21:44:22 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.11.227]) by fep03-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020121214328.DEFT1728.fep03-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 22:43:28 +0100 Message-ID: <00a201c1a2c4$bc4f7c20$fa0a97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020120184653.00a411b0@mail.pncl.co.uk> <5.1.0.14.2.20020121184212.00a5c060@mail.pncl.co.uk> <006601c1a2c0$7a28cf80$fa0a97d4@oemcomputer> Subject: LF: Crossband... Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 22:43:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi agn, Reino just replied via LF PSK31 to my e-mail report! Does this count as a valid QSO Malcolm? (Probably not as he changed callsign from OH1TN to OH5UFO in the middle of the QSO ;-) ----------------------- .eoe e-ye > f ooae tte e ese =U d=e)r eae ntotetaae e a t CQ CQ CQ de OH5UFO OH5UFO OH5UFO CQ CQ CQ de OH5UFO OH5UFO OH5UFO Vy tnx RpRt Johan SM6LKM 73! de Reino RPRT to e:mail ufo@surfeu.fi ----------------------- 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12273 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 21:20:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 21:20:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 4447 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 21:20:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 21:20:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SllE-0003zu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 21:13:48 +0000 Received: from fep01.swip.net ([130.244.199.129] helo=fep01-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SllD-0003zp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 21:13:47 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.10.154]) by fep01-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020121211259.DCHZ560.fep01-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 22:12:59 +0100 Message-ID: <006601c1a2c0$7a28cf80$fa0a97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020120184653.00a411b0@mail.pncl.co.uk> <5.1.0.14.2.20020121184212.00a5c060@mail.pncl.co.uk> Subject: LF: OH1TN calling CQ on PSK31! Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 22:12:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi OH1TN is calling PSK31 CQ in vain right now on 135.950-ish. Cut 'n' paste from DigiPan: ------------------ CQ CQ CQ de OH1TN OH1TN OH1TN CQ CQ CQ de OH1TN OH1TN OH1TN CQ CQ CQ de OH1TN OH1TN OH1TN RPRT to e:mail ufo@surfeu.fi ------------------ 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6321 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 21:05:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 21:05:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 19842 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 21:05:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 21:05:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SlXZ-0003wW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 20:59:41 +0000 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SlXX-0003wR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 20:59:40 +0000 Received: from steve (ppp218.dyn154.pacific.net.au [210.23.154.218]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA16723 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 07:58:47 +1100 Message-ID: <005e01c1a2be$738b9ce0$da9a17d2@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020120184653.00a411b0@mail.pncl.co.uk> <5.1.0.14.2.20020121184212.00a5c060@mail.pncl.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Stupid remark [humour]... Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 07:55:42 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Come on chaps. Try to have a little compassion for petite mal. What we are witnessing here is a desperate attempt to throw up a smoke-screen from a self-described lazy man's CW appliance Grade 3 operator. Having proved that petite mal is not big enough to acknowledge the foresight of those he derided in the past and on whose hard work he is now riding to his own advantage, he is a desperate man. How about sparing a bit of your abundant free time to do acknowledge those people, instead of trying to through up a smoke screen to hide your red face petite mal ? BTW, didn't get a reply to my "humour" petite mal. Only like it when you are giving it out ? Surely you are not petite in that department as well :-) Expect to see the following "political" strategy from petite mal:- 1. Droning on about how he is doing better than those in the past. Over here we have a mature respect for those that have gone before and done all the hard work for us. Not petite mal. petite mal is quite happy to bag anyone who dares to forge ahead of him in any endeavour, only to claim their hard work for his own later. 2. Droning on with the 53rd description of his antenna installation (apparently free from any commercial input - must have admiration for someone who has forged the steel pipe and hand-drawn the copper wire himself, as well as using his own hand-made electronic components). 3. Droning on deriding those not on the official petite mal approval list. 4. Slow modification of the dividing line between "normal" CW and QRSS. Was originally about 5 wpm, slowly working its way downwards. Expect to see the final petite mal definition of "normal" CW to be whatever rate petite mal uses. Got to get himself out of the lazy man's CW appliance Grade 3 operator (his own definition remember) category somehow. So brace yourself for a long drawn out general harangue-driven smoke screen from the Tullywiggan Twitterer, he has an ENORMOUS hole to dig himself out of :-) Should drone on for months yet :-) Drag on the wellingtons to keep your feet from getting soiled :-) P.S. petite mal - you seem so desperate to cover up your self-annointed lazy man's CW appliance Grade 3 operator status. What other "short comings" are you trying to hide mate ? (;-o) P.P.S. Remember petite mal's broadcasts here are 99% political - I don't know about elsewhere - but over here politicians are only one rung up on the evolutionary ladder from earthworms, so petite mal's verbal sprays should be view in a compassionate light :-) Steve VK2ZTO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21795 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 19:07:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 19:07:35 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3292 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 19:07:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 19:07:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SjkH-0003lb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 19:04:41 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SjkG-0003lW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 19:04:40 +0000 Received: from blanch.pncl.co.uk (36.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.36]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g0LJ3ob08636 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 19:03:51 GMT Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020121184212.00a5c060@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 19:01:16 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: Stupid remark In-reply-to: <3C4BFA81.DDEAF34@netscapeonline.co.uk> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020120184653.00a411b0@mail.pncl.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit At 11:24 21/01/02 Monday +0000, G3KEV wrote:

The DECCA JEEP alias 5501 tx, is a brother of the MARCONI JEEP alias T1154.
Surprised you did not know this. Some say JEEP should read JUNK

Absolute rubbish,  as usual, and insulting with it.

The T1154 was called by some a "GP" transmitter. "GP" means "General Purpose" and that's just what it was.
Not particularly good but considering it was rushed out in a few months very creditable to the people who
worked day and night to get it out.

The 5501 was a special-purpose limited-user unit designed specifically to do one job and one job only, which it does superbly.
It was never marketed and is far from a "GP" unit. You obviously know nothing whatever about Decca equipment or how it was used.

They were designed and built for totally different purposes by two quite separate companies about 45 years apart so how you can call them "brothers" I really do not know. Another example of the utter lack of logic we expect from you.

And while I'm at it, you claim all your equipment is designed and built by you. What's happened to all those state-of-the-art
Japanese transceivers you were bragging about not so long ago?  Thrown in the skip?

Walter G3JKV.


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2309 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 18:52:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 18:52:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 20701 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 18:51:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 18:51:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SjUl-0003gW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 18:48:39 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SjUk-0003gP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 18:48:38 +0000 Received: from ldsas06-70-121-235.cw-visp.com ([212.137.121.235] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16SjJ5-0001oo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 18:36:36 +0000 Message-ID: <3C4C6262.458CA36E@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 18:48:02 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re. Hello Again References: <001e01c1a283$9b89cf40$05e9fea9@g3aqc> Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit  

Laurie Mayhead wrote:

KEV says:- >Ever since some Amateurs started using DECCA JEEP(5501) transmittersat 1.2-1.5kW rf output the 1W erp limit seemed not to apply. I belive everyone south of Watford uses one< When I had my T/A QSO two way, not cross band, I was using a 350Watt Audio amp.My measured erp was 300-340mW.I now use  1kW which makes my erp 857-971mW !I must say I am getting very tired of the constant non-constructive criticism not tosay down right rudeness coming from North of Watford.

Is it the competition north of Watford that you do not like ? or the humour or what ?
I tolerate my southern neighbours observations even when they are uncomplimentary.
Everyone is entitled to their opinion, whether you agree with them or not.
The audio amplifier qso to which you refer, was that a landline qso ? there has been so much confusion over past TA qso's where rules have been made up as one goes along, and putting bits and pieces of callsigns together over days and weeks that anyone privately that I speak to connected with LF does not know what to believe.
Recent TA QSO'S that have been taking place by a number of UK/EU operators xband are more valid and verifiable and have been completed in minutes or just over an hour at the most at the lower qrs speeds.
If anyone disputes the above observations then let us have your opinion.
There is nothing rude about trying to get the facts straight.
G3KEV
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20178 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 18:51:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 18:51:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22497 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 18:51:21 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 18:51:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SjUc-0003gN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 18:48:30 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SjUb-0003gI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 18:48:29 +0000 Received: from ldsas06-70-121-235.cw-visp.com ([212.137.121.235] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16SjIw-0001oN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 18:36:27 +0000 Message-ID: <3C4C6258.CBC1934C@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 18:47:52 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: BIG SIG Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Big signals received at my QTH in order. 1 MM0ALM 2 M0BMU - Jeep running well Jim, keep changing the oil hi 3 G3YMX The rest even with their JEEPS flat out are but a whisper in the night, I often wonder how they ever make it across the Pond, I expect that is why it takes days and weeks to stitch the qso together. Those keying the Decca via the transceiver(drive on/off) are generating louder key clicks than signal. It must be fun listening to all of this on the local LF/VHF repeater, thankfully I am well out of range. What was the name of the amateur somewhere in Canada VA something, that had his repeater in the middle of the Atlantic. Did that count as a Fixed or /MM qso. Not heard him for a long time perhaps the repeater has sunk or the wind and snow has swept it away. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9886 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 14:00:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 14:00:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 11559 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 14:00:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 14:00:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Sexj-000387-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 13:58:15 +0000 Received: from mail6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Sexi-00037z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 13:58:15 +0000 Received: from modem-21.aranwe.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.120.21] helo=g3aqc) by mail6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 16Sews-0007FU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 13:57:23 +0000 Message-ID: <001e01c1a283$9b89cf40$05e9fea9@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. Hello Again Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 13:57:11 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
KEV says:-
 
>Ever since some Amateurs started using DECCA JEEP(5501) transmitters
at 1.2-1.5kW rf output the 1W erp limit seemed not to apply. I belive everyone south of Watford uses one<
 
When I had my T/A QSO two way, not cross band, I was using a 350Watt Audio amp.My measured erp was 300-340mW.
I now use  1kW which makes my erp 857-971mW !
I must say I am getting very tired of the constant non-constructive criticism not to
say down right rudeness coming from North of Watford.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28068 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 13:51:35 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 13:51:35 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3504 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 13:51:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 13:51:35 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Sepk-00035V-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 13:50:00 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Sepj-00035P-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 13:49:59 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16Seox-0007Wf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 13:49:11 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16Seow-0003dc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 13:49:10 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020121134048.00aa7958@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 13:48:16 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: Big signal In-reply-to: <3C4BFA81.DDEAF34@netscapeonline.co.uk> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020120184653.00a411b0@mail.pncl.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Mal, LF group, At 11:24 21/01/2002 +0000, you wrote: >The DECCA JEEP alias 5501 tx, is a brother of the MARCONI JEEP alias T1154. >Surprised you did not know this. Some say JEEP should read JUNK > Of course, any self-respecting, competent CW operator (well, allright, CW and QRSS operator these days) would never consider anything less than a MERCEDES JEEP... Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19899 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 13:42:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 13:42:51 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27019 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 13:42:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 13:42:49 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SegL-00032j-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 13:40:17 +0000 Received: from e23.nc.us.ibm.com ([32.97.136.229] helo=e23.esmtp.ibm.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SegK-00032e-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 13:40:17 +0000 Received: from southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.208]) by e23.esmtp.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA28308 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 07:36:19 -0600 Received: from usa.net (ss6.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.71]) by southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0LDdET168426 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 08:39:21 -0500 Message-ID: <3C4C19EE.8445A197@usa.net> Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 14:38:54 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Digital Sine Generators References: <000c01c1a27d$eff3ab60$0886a4cb@CO3043446A> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Graeme Zimmer wrote: > > Digital Sin/Cos-Synthesis using the Chinese remainder theorem > > Brilliant! > > I found a simple explanation of CRT at... > > http://www.math.hawaii.edu/~lee/courses/Chinese.pdf I second that ! Really a clever idea. Thanks also to Zim for the pointer to the Chinese Remainder Theorem. Klaus, do you have any document that explains how to choose the three prime numbers used for the length of the sin/cos tables, and how to compute the phase increment for each, as a function of the wanted output frequency. Thanks. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10570 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 13:41:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 13:41:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 25356 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 13:41:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 13:41:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SeeD-000329-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 13:38:05 +0000 Received: from mail004.syd.optusnet.com.au ([203.2.75.228]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SeeB-000324-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 13:38:04 +0000 Received: from CO3043446A (c22590.sunsh1.vic.optusnet.com.au [203.164.134.8]) by mail004.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g0LDbDR12177 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 00:37:13 +1100 Message-ID: <001c01c1a281$34944e20$0886a4cb@CO3043446A> From: "Graeme Zimmer" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: Digital Sine Generators Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 00:40:35 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: More on Chinese Remainder Theorem ......... I found two different translations for "The Song of Master Sun" "3 men walk together for 70 miles 5 plum trees blossom 21 branches 7 persons reunion at June 15 Circulating at a period of 105" "Three septuagenarians walking together, 'tis rare! Five plum trees with twenty one branches in flower, Seven disciples gathering right by the half-moon, One hundred and five taken away, lo the result shall appear!" .................... Zim From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24855 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 13:17:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 13:17:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 29172 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 13:17:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 13:17:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SeHi-0002xC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 13:14:50 +0000 Received: from mail016.syd.optusnet.com.au ([203.2.75.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SeHh-0002x0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 13:14:49 +0000 Received: from CO3043446A (c22590.sunsh1.vic.optusnet.com.au [203.164.134.8]) by mail016.syd.optusnet.com.au (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id g0LDDnE28463 for ; Tue, 22 Jan 2002 00:13:49 +1100 Message-ID: <000c01c1a27d$eff3ab60$0886a4cb@CO3043446A> From: "Graeme Zimmer" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: Digital Sine Generators Date: Tue, 22 Jan 2002 00:17:12 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Digital Sin/Cos-Synthesis using the Chinese remainder theorem Brilliant! I found a simple explanation of CRT at... http://www.math.hawaii.edu/~lee/courses/Chinese.pdf ....................... Zim From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8919 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 13:13:32 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 13:13:32 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24305 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 13:13:06 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 13:13:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SeCo-0002vX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 13:09:46 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SeCn-0002vS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 13:09:45 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g0LD8QIU060486 for ; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 14:08:26 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20020121140458.309f44e0@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 14:04:58 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Questions about Jason. In-reply-to: <3C4AF58E.1DBA778B@usa.net> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >Rik ON7YD is much expert than me in QRSS speed calculations, but let's try : >suppose I want to send CQ DE I2PHD >Unless my computation is wrong, that amounts to a total of 106 dot lengths, >so the time needed is the following : >QRSS3 106 x 3 = 318 seconds, i.e. 5 minutes, 18 seconds >QRSS10 106 x 10 = 1060 seconds, i.e. 17 minutes, 40 seconds >QRSS60 106 x 60 = 6360 seconds, i.e. 1 hour, 46 minutes >Jason 12 characters / 2.5 = 4 minutes, 48 seconds > >I leave to Rik the computation for DFCW... In DFCW it would be a length of 40 dots so : DFCW3 = 2 min 0 sec DFCW10 = 6 min 40 sec DFCW60 = 40 min If we simplify a bit and assume that SNR is only determined by the dotlength we would have to compare Jason with QRSS12 or DFCW12 : QRSS12 = 21 min 12 sec DFCW12 = 8 min 0 sec Jason = 4 min 24 sec (I count only 11 characters) The other way arround, if we want to transmit the text at the same speed as Jason we would need to use QRSS at 2.5 sec/dot or DFCW at 6.6 sec/dot. This would make QRSS about 6.8dB and DFCW about 2.6dB inferior to Jason. In the real world the differences will be a bit less since Jason is using a larger bandwidth. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2349 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 13:03:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 13:03:51 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15101 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 13:03:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 13:03:49 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Se2X-0002rr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 12:59:09 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Se2W-0002rm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 12:59:08 +0000 Received: from ldsas16-80-131-112.cw-visp.com ([212.137.131.112] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16Sdqs-0000X3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 12:47:07 +0000 Message-ID: <3C4BF9D3.F9F43B2F@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 11:21:55 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Hello again References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020120164328.00a40460@mail.pncl.co.uk> <000a01c1a1f8$fd172b80$5be486d4@erica> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: g3ldo wrote: > Been away in on a vacation to EA and came back to a pile of over 300 e-mails > and only just getting to the top of the heap. > A lot has happened > First of all G3KEV on T/A using QRSS - never thought I would see the day. Solid fast QRS qso with VE1ZJ at 2 sec dot, almost there on normal CW. The xband QSO only took a few minutes 136/7025 khz solid copy both ways. I understand previous QSO'S took hours and days to complete. > > This mode, pioneered by G4JNT and G3PLX, had a detractor on both sides of > the Atlantic yet used with success in T/A. You would have expected some > 'word eating', but not a bit of it. > > Then there is that well established Italian S/W producer who has come up > with yet another winner for the benefit of the LF community. I downloaded > Jason onto a laptop and the main computer and had them talking to each other > within half an hour - well done and thanks Alberto. > > Some big antenna installations around There have always been BIG antennas around in Amateur circles, I could mention 20 Amateurs using Big installations that would rival any commercial station. > > > > Mal G3KEV has a competitor for the biggest 136 sig in the UK. I heard > > MM0ALM wkg DJ9IE yesterday and he was 8 dB stronger than 'KEV here > although > > almost twice as far away. Said he'd just had a steeplejack in to mend his > > antenna - apparently money well spent. > > I hadn't realised that in my absence the RA had rescinded the maximum of 1w > erp requirement. Ever since some Amateurs started using the DECCA JEEP (5501) transmitters at 1.2 - 1.5 kw rf output the 1W erp limit seemed not to apply. I believe everyone south of Watford uses one. > Must look through the rest of my e-mails. > > Regards, > Peter, G3LDO > > e-mail > > Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16597 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 13:03:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 13:03:04 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 14387 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 13:03:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 13:03:04 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Se2e-0002ry-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 12:59:16 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Se2d-0002rt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 12:59:15 +0000 Received: from ldsas16-80-131-112.cw-visp.com ([212.137.131.112] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16Sdr0-0000XJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 12:47:14 +0000 Message-ID: <3C4BFA81.DDEAF34@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 11:24:49 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Big signal References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020120184653.00a411b0@mail.pncl.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Walter Blanchard wrote: > G3KEV..... > ................................ > > >no commercial DECCA JEEPS needed to cross the POND. > > When I was with Decca I had a Decca car, and we certainly had Decca trucks, > but we never had Jeeps, so what's this all about? You must lead a sheltered life. The DECCA JEEP alias 5501 tx, is a brother of the MARCONI JEEP alias T1154. Surprised you did not know this. Some say JEEP should read JUNK > > > Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16151 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 12:29:18 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 12:29:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29387 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 12:29:18 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 12:29:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SdSk-0002nP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 12:22:10 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SdSj-0002nK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 12:22:09 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16SdRv-0005DZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 12:21:19 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16SdRu-00015P-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 12:21:18 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020121114744.00a89e78@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 12:18:51 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: New BIG sig / Jason In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.2.20020120164328.00a40460@mail.pncl.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Walter, LF Group, At 16:48 20/01/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Mal G3KEV has a competitor for the biggest 136 sig in the UK. I heard >MM0ALM wkg DJ9IE yesterday and he was 8 dB stronger than 'KEV here >although almost twice as far away. Said he'd just had a steeplejack in to >mend his antenna - apparently money well spent. MM0ALM was a very big signal here at the weekend; about 25uV/m near Hatfield, certainly impressive. I heard OH5UFO calling CQ using QRSS3 late one night a week or so ago - also a strong signal. I called him, but got no response, so perhaps Reino had dozed off - a problem I have had myself more than once :-) I put together a frequency-shifting device over the weekend; it takes a signal at about 5kHz from a sound card and shifts it into the 136kHz range. I hope to use it to do some tests using Jason 0.92 over the next couple of days - as soon as I remember what all those wires trailing around my shack do, and figure out a sensible way of connecting it all up! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17081 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 11:20:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 11:20:52 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 14590 invoked from network); 21 Jan 2002 11:20:47 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jan 2002 11:20:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ScHz-0002cx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 11:06:59 +0000 Received: from heavymetal.isc.de ([195.64.96.45] helo=mail1.isys.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ScHx-0002cs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 11:06:57 +0000 Received: from [195.64.97.30] (helo=k) by mail1.isys.net with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 16ScH3-0006vR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 21 Jan 2002 12:06:01 +0100 From: "Klaus von der Heide" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 21 Jan 2002 12:06:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Digital Sine Generators In-reply-to: <000a01c1a1f8$fd172b80$5be486d4@erica> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello all in the group, If someone is interested in the following stuff, please e-mail. 73 de Klaus, DJ5HG dj5hg@qsl.net v.d.heide@on-line.de heide@informatik.uni-hamburg.de ------------------------------------------------------------- Digital Sin/Cos-Synthesis using the Chinese remainder theorem ============================================================= A fundamental discussion upon the principles and drawbacks of Direct Digital Synthesis about one and a half year ago on this reflector inspired me to an investigation in this field. A number-theoretic approach led me to a new synthesis that in most cases is superior to classic DDS in three respects: Spurious free dynamic range (SFDR), speed, and requirement of memory. This is not the place for a full discussion. But the principle is simple: In place of one single sin-table of length equal a power of 2 take a few cos/sin-tables of different prime-number-lengths and use them for parallel cos/sin-generation with individual phase accumulators. The analytical outputs then are all multiplied. The smallest frequency step is the sampling frequency divided by all the table lengths. The Chinese Remainder Theorem guarantees that all multiples of the frequency step can be realized. The Advantages are: (1) There is no address quantization as in classic DDS. (2) The table lengths is not a power of two which leads to spurs in classic DDS at frequencies m*2^-n times the sampling frequency (small integers m,n). (3) The implementation on DSPs is extraordinary simple and fast. Example: Generation of the 17 tones of Jason at fs = 11025 Hz. My choice of three cos/sin table lengths is: 29, 83, 599. The frequency step then is 11025/29/83/599 = 0.007647 Hz. Phase Accu Step in Table resulting frequency SFDR 1 2 3 frequency error dB ------------------------------------------------------------ 25 46 393 797.982027 0.000764 154.5 28 37 396 798.234369 0.000764 154.2 2 28 399 798.486711 0.000764 153.7 5 19 402 798.739053 0.000764 154.4 8 10 405 798.991395 0.000764 154.1 11 1 408 799.243737 0.000763 153.1 14 75 411 799.496079 0.000763 154.1 17 66 414 799.748421 0.000763 154.2 20 57 417 800.000763 0.000763 153.9 23 48 420 800.253105 0.000763 154.1 26 39 423 800.505447 0.000763 154.1 0 30 426 800.757789 0.000762 158.2 3 21 429 801.010131 0.000762 153.1 6 12 432 801.262473 0.000762 153.9 9 3 435 801.514815 0.000762 154.2 12 77 438 801.767157 0.000762 154.0 15 68 441 802.019499 0.000762 153.7 On my old DSP56002 it takes 8 instructions per sample and requires 2*(29+83+599) = 1422 words of memory for the tables. The spurious free dynamic range (SFDR) for this implementation in 24-bit-arithmetic is given in the table. It increases with 6 dB per additional bit to infinity because there is no approximation. The kernel of the program to compute n4 samples by two complex multiplications of three complex table lookups each is: do n4,loop mpy x1,y1,a ab,l:(r4)+ mpy x1,y0,b y:(r0)+n0,x0 macr -x0,y0,a y:(r2),y0 macr x0,y1,b a,x1 mpy x1,y0,b b,x0 mpy -x0,y0,a x:(r2)+n2,y1 macr x1,y1,a x:(r0),x1 macr x0,y1,b l:(r1)+n1,y loop That's in short. --------------------------- END ------------------------------ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25430 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2002 22:41:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 2002 22:41:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 28291 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2002 21:28:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 2002 21:28:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SPQD-0001FM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 21:22:37 +0000 Received: from chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net ([212.135.1.67]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SPQC-0001FH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 21:22:36 +0000 Received: from erica (tnt-21-91.easynet.co.uk [212.134.228.91]) by chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id BF17A1D52E2 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 21:21:44 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000a01c1a1f8$fd172b80$5be486d4@erica> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020120164328.00a40460@mail.pncl.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Hello again Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 21:24:43 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Been away in on a vacation to EA and came back to a pile of over 300 e-mails and only just getting to the top of the heap. A lot has happened First of all G3KEV on T/A using QRSS - never thought I would see the day. This mode, pioneered by G4JNT and G3PLX, had a detractor on both sides of the Atlantic yet used with success in T/A. You would have expected some 'word eating', but not a bit of it. Then there is that well established Italian S/W producer who has come up with yet another winner for the benefit of the LF community. I downloaded Jason onto a laptop and the main computer and had them talking to each other within half an hour - well done and thanks Alberto. Some big antenna installations around > Mal G3KEV has a competitor for the biggest 136 sig in the UK. I heard > MM0ALM wkg DJ9IE yesterday and he was 8 dB stronger than 'KEV here although > almost twice as far away. Said he'd just had a steeplejack in to mend his > antenna - apparently money well spent. I hadn't realised that in my absence the RA had rescinded the maximum of 1w erp requirement. Must look through the rest of my e-mails. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3741 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2002 19:00:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 2002 19:00:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28644 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2002 19:00:44 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 2002 19:00:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SNB8-0000yf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 18:58:54 +0000 Received: from smtp1.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.35.136] helo=smtp.wanadoo.nl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SNB8-0000yZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 18:58:54 +0000 Received: from nl9222 (p0856.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.202.93]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id g0KIw4d27081 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 19:58:04 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <200201201858.g0KIw4d27081@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 19:58:15 +0000 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: Re: LF: Big signal X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 1/20/02 6:48:00 PM, you wrote: >G3KEV..... >................................. > >>no commercial DECCA JEEPS needed to cross the POND. > >When I was with Decca I had a Decca car, and we certainly had Decca trucks, >but we never had Jeeps, so what's this all about? > >Walter G3JKV. Humor, more or less Ko, NL9222 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28887 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2002 18:58:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 2002 18:58:51 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27819 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2002 18:58:52 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 2002 18:58:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SN9h-0000yU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 18:57:25 +0000 Received: from smtp1.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.35.136] helo=smtp.wanadoo.nl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SN9h-0000yP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 18:57:25 +0000 Received: from nl9222 (p0856.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.202.93]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id g0KIuZd25936 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 19:56:35 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <200201201856.g0KIuZd25936@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 19:56:46 +0000 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Jason V0.92 X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 1/20/02 5:30:00 PM, you wrote: >I have just uploaded version 0.92 of Jason to http://www.weaksignals.com/jason > >Qsl.net seems to be again up to speed, so >downloading should be easy. Yes it was! Just in case it goes down the file is also at: http://home.wanadoo.nl/nl9222/programs/jason092.exe Or: http://home.wanadoo.nl/nl9222/digisoft.htm Thanks Alberto & Co. 73 de Ko, NL9222 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9182 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2002 18:50:34 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 2002 18:50:34 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11358 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2002 18:50:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 2002 18:50:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SN0n-0000wb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 18:48:13 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SN0m-0000wM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 18:48:12 +0000 Received: from blanch.pncl.co.uk (64.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.64]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g0KIkws21865 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 18:47:14 GMT Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020120184653.00a411b0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 18:48:46 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: Re: LF: Big signal In-reply-to: <3C4B0D20.7CBC25E1@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3KEV..... ................................ >no commercial DECCA JEEPS needed to cross the POND. When I was with Decca I had a Decca car, and we certainly had Decca trucks, but we never had Jeeps, so what's this all about? Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19993 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2002 18:36:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 2002 18:36:03 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16742 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2002 18:35:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 2002 18:35:38 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SMmY-0000rp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 18:33:30 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SMmX-0000rd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 18:33:29 +0000 Received: from ldsas08-72-123-144.cw-visp.com ([212.137.123.144] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16SMav-0007he-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 18:21:29 +0000 Message-ID: <3C4B0A6C.8D0B51BE@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 18:20:28 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 136 References: <3C4B1EA1.5D278042@ns.sympatico.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: john currie wrote: > Hi saw nil last night 73 de John VE1ZJ I have not heard any QRS acty lately and I have not been on. Expect John that is why u did not see anything. Might tx tonight if u are about. Normally commence abt 2130 utc and QRT about 2400 utc. I always listen on 7025 for xband if possible. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6388 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2002 18:35:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 2002 18:35:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16609 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2002 18:35:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 2002 18:35:22 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SMmY-0000rm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 18:33:30 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SMmW-0000rc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 18:33:29 +0000 Received: from ldsas08-72-123-144.cw-visp.com ([212.137.123.144] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16SMas-0007hX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 18:21:26 +0000 Message-ID: <3C4B09CE.D0EEEC7F@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 18:17:50 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: New BIG sig References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020120164328.00a40460@mail.pncl.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Walter Blanchard wrote: > Mal G3KEV has a competitor for the biggest 136 sig in the UK. I heard > MM0ALM wkg DJ9IE yesterday and he was 8 dB stronger than 'KEV here although > almost twice as far away. I agree, Dave as I have said before has the best installation in the UK, with several lattice towers all in excess of 150 ft hight. > Said he'd just had a steeplejack in to mend his > antenna - apparently money well spent. > Is OH5UFO for real? Yes this is real alias OH1TN with a special call. > Seems much too strong for a genuine OH. > Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6316 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2002 18:35:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 2002 18:35:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16593 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2002 18:35:20 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 2002 18:35:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SMma-0000rv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 18:33:32 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SMmZ-0000ro-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 18:33:31 +0000 Received: from ldsas08-72-123-144.cw-visp.com ([212.137.123.144] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16SMax-0007hl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 18:21:32 +0000 Message-ID: <3C4B0D20.7CBC25E1@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 18:32:00 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: Big signal Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Credit to MM0ALM, everything he has is home built, TX and his antenna system, consisting of several lattice towers, all over 150 ft high as far as I know and he is not in the Electronic/radio business, even more credit. My system, TX and associated equipment and antennas have been engineered and built by myself no commercial DECCA JEEPS needed to cross the POND. Thanks to all for the observations and reports. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29936 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2002 17:38:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 2002 17:38:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 3927 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2002 17:38:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 2002 17:38:25 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SLtM-0000lP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 17:36:28 +0000 Received: from moutvdom01.kundenserver.de ([195.20.224.200]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SLtK-0000lK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 17:36:26 +0000 Received: from [195.20.224.220] (helo=mrvdom04.kundenserver.de) by moutvdom01.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 16SLsW-0007xq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 18:35:36 +0100 Received: from p3e9e9cc4.dip.t-dialin.net ([62.158.156.196] helo=diolog.de) by mrvdom04.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 16SLsV-0002Mw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 18:35:35 +0100 From: "Fabian Kurz" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: New BIG sig Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 18:36:22 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Mal G3KEV has a competitor for the biggest 136 sig in the UK. I heard > MM0ALM wkg DJ9IE yesterday and he was 8 dB stronger than 'KEV here although > almost twice as far away. Hrd MM0ALM in QSO with F6BWO yday night and he was really strong, maybe even stronger than KEV, and only few signals from german stations are stronger here (dj9ie, df0wd, dk8kw, dk9dx). There is a mp3-recording of his signal in Sept 2001 on my homepage (www.qsl.net/dj1yfk/136.html), but yesterday he was even stronger! > Said he'd just had a steeplejack in to mend his > antenna - apparently money well spent. > Is OH5UFO for real? Seems much too strong for a genuine OH. OH5UFO = OH1TN, as far as I know.. 73, fabian dj1yfk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24786 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2002 16:52:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 2002 16:52:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 24910 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2002 16:52:33 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 2002 16:52:33 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SLAk-0000fa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:50:22 +0000 Received: from d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SLAh-0000es-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:50:19 +0000 Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.COM (1.0.0) with ESMTP id QAA67492 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:26:45 GMT Received: from usa.net (ss6.pok.socks.ibm.com [9.14.3.71]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0KGkc295554 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:46:39 GMT Message-ID: <3C4AF58E.1DBA778B@usa.net> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 17:51:26 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Questions about Jason. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: "Paul A. Cianciolo" wrote: > Alberto and group, > > What happens to JASON when he has a screen full of data? > > Does it scroll off the page?.. > Can it be recovered? Paul, the text scrolls up outside the top of the screen, and, no, it cannot be recovered. > JASON looks like it will print out at about a letter ever 10 seconds or so. The timing is a letter every 24 seconds (roughly), for a throughput of 2.5 characters per minute > Alberto,, will there be a version of this program with longer segment > length to allow for longer integration of the signal ? Yes, it can be done, as it can be done a faster version for HF and up... Whether there actually will be such a version, it's a bit too early to say. > Also might you explain to us how much faster in character speed this mode is > than QRSS 60? Rik ON7YD is much expert than me in QRSS speed calculations, but let's try : suppose I want to send CQ DE I2PHD Unless my computation is wrong, that amounts to a total of 106 dot lengths, so the time needed is the following : QRSS3 106 x 3 = 318 seconds, i.e. 5 minutes, 18 seconds QRSS10 106 x 10 = 1060 seconds, i.e. 17 minutes, 40 seconds QRSS60 106 x 60 = 6360 seconds, i.e. 1 hour, 46 minutes Jason 12 characters / 2.5 = 4 minutes, 48 seconds I leave to Rik the computation for DFCW... 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10399 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2002 16:48:31 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 2002 16:48:31 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28703 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2002 16:48:31 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 2002 16:48:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SL7Z-0000eS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:47:05 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SL7Y-0000eN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:47:04 +0000 Received: from blanch.pncl.co.uk (189.235.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.235.189]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g0KGkDX07622 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:46:13 GMT Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020120164328.00a40460@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:48:03 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: New BIG sig MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mal G3KEV has a competitor for the biggest 136 sig in the UK. I heard MM0ALM wkg DJ9IE yesterday and he was 8 dB stronger than 'KEV here although almost twice as far away. Said he'd just had a steeplejack in to mend his antenna - apparently money well spent. Is OH5UFO for real? Seems much too strong for a genuine OH. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12060 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2002 16:31:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 2002 16:31:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 21267 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2002 16:31:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 2002 16:31:20 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SKr0-0000bz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:29:58 +0000 Received: from d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SKqz-0000bu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:29:58 +0000 Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.COM (1.0.0) with ESMTP id QAA67424 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:06:16 GMT Received: from usa.net (ss6.pok.socks.ibm.com [9.14.3.71]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0KGQ82193132 for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:26:09 GMT Message-ID: <3C4AF0BF.E03E4CE0@usa.net> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 17:30:56 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Jason V0.92 References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have just uploaded version 0.92 of Jason to http://www.weaksignals.com/jason Qsl.net seems to be again up to speed, so downloading should be easy. The mods are : - Ctrl-Z clears the reception screen - The blooming of the waterfall trace has been fixed. - There should be now much less garbled and repeated characters when receiving just noise - The new 17-tone signalling scheme is implemented - When using audio output, it is possible to apply a multiplying factor to the steps between the tones - A beacon mode is implemented - Selectable USB/LSB both for Rx and Tx Regarding this last point, a few notes are in order : On the transmitting side, the Tx and Jason must be set both either on USB or LSB. There is no need to announce in advance which mode the transmission will be, as long as the above rule is adhered to. The same holds for the receiving side. Keep both the Rx and Jason either on USB or LSB, irrespective on how the setting is on the transmitting side. A last word about the beacon mode. The text to be beaconed must be surrounded by braces : { } When the opening brace is encountered, then the text found until the closing brace is endlessly repeated. As an example, suppose the following is typed : HELLO ALL { THIS IS A TEST} What will be transmitted is: HELLO ALL THIS IS A TEST THIS IS A TEST THIS IS A TEST..... and so on. Any text following the closing brace will be ignored. As usual, any and all reports are welcome 73 Alberto I2PHD P.S. Version 0.92 is, of course, incompatible with 0.9 and 0.91 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14094 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2002 16:21:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 2002 16:21:50 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16895 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2002 16:21:50 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 2002 16:21:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SKfk-0000a1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:18:20 +0000 Received: from siaag1ac.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SKfj-0000Zs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 16:18:19 +0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id LAA11138 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 11:16:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 11:16:21 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: First Jason QSO? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200201201116_MC3-EEAC-BCC3@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Dave, hello Wolf, congrats on the first Jason QSO! I can imagine that it is a very relaxing mode, similar to QRSS. You can easily take a shower in between ... Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29483 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2002 14:53:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 2002 14:53:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9776 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2002 14:53:47 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 2002 14:53:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SJGO-0000RO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 14:48:04 +0000 Received: from smtp1.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.91] helo=mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SJGN-0000RJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 14:48:03 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.108.186]) by mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 10:48:07 -0400 Message-ID: <3C4B1EA1.5D278042@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 14:46:41 -0500 From: "john currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 136 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi saw nil last night 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29589 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2002 11:38:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 2002 11:38:00 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23967 invoked from network); 20 Jan 2002 11:38:00 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jan 2002 11:38:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SGCR-0000A2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 11:31:47 +0000 Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.104]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16SGCQ-00009x-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 11:31:46 +0000 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.25.) id l.153.78217fe (4462) for ; Sun, 20 Jan 2002 06:30:22 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <153.78217fe.297c044e@aol.com> Date: Sun, 20 Jan 2002 06:30:22 EST Subject: Re: LF: First Jason QSO? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Dave and all,

At least it was my first "on air" test with Jason, both for "RX" and "TX". So I'm very pleased to have received an instant answer from Dave who must have been lurking on the frequency - thanks !

Also thanks to Alberto who must have a very busy time. A question: How can I see when the last character of my transmitted text string is "complete" ? Is the transmission complete when it disappears from the screen, or does it take another couple of seconds to make the transmission complete.

I did the "RX"/"TX" changeover manually with a "PTT"-switch. For the soundcard output option, one could use the serial port to control the transmitter (like the PSK31 software does). But this should have low priority on Alberto's wish list !

Unfortunately, it was too cold on the clubstation to stay there much longer. And the local QRM was very strong; but JASON did not seem to suffer from the crashes and bangs and all the drifting carriers. Well done ! Dave's signal was audible, but a regular CW QSO would not have been "armchair copy" as in the good old days when we started with less QRM.

Apologies to the station who called me a bit later on 136.6 in regular CW. On a normal day without the heavy QRM, I could have pulled you through.

Thanks again Dave  (next time I'll also have a hot cup of tea at the club stn)
    and Alberto (keep up the good work !)

73
Wolf  DL4YHF



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1875 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2002 18:31:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jan 2002 18:31:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29175 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2002 18:30:58 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jan 2002 18:30:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16S0Dn-0007Cj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 18:28:07 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16S0Dm-0007Ce-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 18:28:06 +0000 Received: from ldsas01-65-116-186.cw-visp.com ([212.137.116.186] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16S02A-0004II-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 18:16:07 +0000 Message-ID: <3C49BA94.672829C0@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 18:27:32 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: First Jason QSO? References: <000c01c1a0fc$06ad2da0$1700a8c0@home> Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit  

Dave Pick wrote:

Dear all. 1515 utcI have just worked Wolf DF0WD with 100% copy using Jason both ways. Wolf was running 50W and I was running 150W.
Confirm the above QSO
 

Wolf's signals were audible here but a heavy noise level would have rendered CW copy very difficult.
 

Wolf's signal was S6 with me and would be no problem to copy on normal CW, Dave's signal S9 and needed attenuation at my end.
 

He would have been a good "O" copy on QRSS3.It is very nice to leave the receiver running and come back from the kitchen with a nice cup of tea to find the next over printed on the screen, very lazy way of working!

Its a pity you mentioned the word LAZY, another LAZYMANS CW MODE but interesting to watch
I still think apart from normal CW the next best thing is  QRS CW. It can be copied aurally when strong enough, and viewed on a screen directly by the human without another layer of decoding, which is required with these other modes.
It is the same problem with morse readers that are in use, the raw CW can be copied directly by the
receiving operator manually but by using another decoding layer by the morse reader, often the copy
is corrupted or garbled and takes some time to recover. Jason although trying to overcome this problem by using a tone generated system still allows garbled copy when hit by noise, and the random noise
does generate tones unfortunately that are permitted to be copied.
I do not suppose there is a perfect solution, even with forward error correction transmissions, there are corruptions although minimual but their problem is grinding to a halt virtually because if the received signal bit does not meet the criteria then it could take hours to receive this bit of info before the  next bit is transmitted etc.
Its all good fun and thats about it.
G3KEV
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 

  73.DaveG3YXM

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8051 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2002 18:08:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jan 2002 18:08:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 19283 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2002 18:08:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jan 2002 18:08:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Rzp2-0007AQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 18:02:32 +0000 Received: from fep03.swip.net ([130.244.199.131] helo=fep03-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Rzp1-0007AL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 18:02:31 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.9.77]) by fep03-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020119180141.FHVA23021.fep03-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 19:01:41 +0100 Message-ID: <010501c1a113$6c78ef40$840997d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000c01c1a0fc$06ad2da0$1700a8c0@home> Subject: LF: Re: First Jason QSO? Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 18:53:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >I have just worked Wolf DF0WD with 100% copy using Jason both ways. Congratulations Dave and Wolf! As Mal wrote, this is probably a "first". Perhaps also a "last" as Alberto is working on the more bandwidth efficient 17-tone version :-) >very lazy way of working! Mal coined "Lazy man's CW". Now we have "Lazy man's RTTY" too, hihi... 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15854 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2002 17:08:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jan 2002 17:08:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 20714 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2002 17:08:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jan 2002 17:08:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RyxW-00073X-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 17:07:14 +0000 Received: from fep01.swip.net ([130.244.199.129] helo=fep01-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RyxV-00073S-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 17:07:13 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.9.132]) by fep01-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020119170624.FJYB20852.fep01-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 18:06:24 +0100 Message-ID: <005e01c1a10b$b21ad660$840997d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB995A@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> Subject: Re: LF: G0MRF/SM6LKM DDS VFO and Jason Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 17:29:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andy, > >If we all clock our DDS chips with 5 or 10MHz from frequency standards, we > >will have common "channels" although the numbers will not be nice (a lot of > > This is too prescriptive. Yes, of course. It was just a thought, not a proposal. I was just dreaming. A clear case of the proverb "It's better to keep your mouth shut and let people think that you are an idiot that to open it and prove that you are one" :-) I am not so good at translating my thoughts to english language... >For instance, I am looking at a simple GPS locking scheme Sounds interesting. Is it some kind of huff & puff? Would a simple GPS with +/-1us 1PPS jitter be adequate? > BTW, What's MPH in Sweden - or any other country outside the US/UK for that > matter ;-) Ha ha! I knew someone would ask! By the way, we drive on the right side of the road here. In some other countries they drive on the wrong side ;-) 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8817 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2002 17:04:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jan 2002 17:04:55 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16149 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2002 17:04:54 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jan 2002 17:04:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Rytq-00072q-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 17:03:26 +0000 Received: from smtp1.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.91] helo=mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Rytp-00072l-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 17:03:26 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.6.82]) by mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 13:03:50 -0400 Message-ID: <3C49EDBE.B141E0D6@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 17:05:50 -0500 From: "john currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 135921kHz T.A. References: <02011916022200.05004@base> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Valerio How many seconds / dot? 73 de John VE1ZJ VALERIO wrote: > On the other side, please look for me on 20/01/2002 starting at 4:00 UTC (i > hope) an 135921kHz. > > '73, IK5ZPV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24245 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2002 16:22:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jan 2002 16:22:03 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 13778 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2002 16:21:41 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jan 2002 16:21:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RyDy-0006xd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 16:20:10 +0000 Received: from mail-1.tiscalinet.it ([195.130.225.147] helo=mail.tiscalinet.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RyDx-0006wz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 16:20:09 +0000 Received: from orion.pii.net (62.11.51.86) by mail.tiscalinet.it (5.5.053) id 3C35BE2E0076B18D for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 17:18:44 +0100 Received: (from clapo@localhost) by orion.pii.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id RAA00265 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 17:27:49 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on Linux X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 17:27:49 +0100 (CET) From: "Claudio" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: new italian station on 136 kHz Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: IK2DED seen on 137.749 kHz, QRSS 3 sec, 15.40 UTC, 15 dB over noise, screen shot available on request. Unfortunatly I can't transmit and replay from my QTH in Milano. Wellcome on LF! Claudio ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Claudio Pozzi http://www.qsl.net/ik2pii happy Linux user E-Mail: Claudio Date: 19-Jan-02 Time: 17:21:46 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29364 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2002 16:08:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jan 2002 16:08:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22772 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2002 16:08:24 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jan 2002 16:08:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RxzG-0006vD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 16:04:58 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RxzF-0006v8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 16:04:57 +0000 Received: from ldsas14-78-129-228.cw-visp.com ([212.137.129.228] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16Rxnc-0003fr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 15:52:57 +0000 Message-ID: <3C4998D9.D4AFF097@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 16:03:37 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: jason qso Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Copied a solid QSO today between G3YXM and DF0WD Time 1405 - 1420 utc- very slow but solid QSO details DF0WD DE G3YXM K G3YXM DF0WD TNX DAVE UR "O" = 50W = YXM 0WD K I left the qso at this stage, was unable to capture the actual presentation so the above info is the best I could do. Good Luck to both and this is probably a First From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29054 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2002 15:59:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jan 2002 15:59:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 18716 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2002 15:59:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jan 2002 15:59:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RxrW-0006sY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 15:56:58 +0000 Received: from mta2.snet.net ([204.60.203.71]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RxrV-0006sT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 15:56:57 +0000 Received: from rescueelect (27.133.252.64.snet.net [64.252.133.27] (may be forged)) by mta2.snet.net (8.12.1/8.12.1/SNET-smtp-1.1/D-1.1/O-1.1) with SMTP id g0JFu7BC002756 for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 10:56:08 -0500 (EST) From: "Paul A. Cianciolo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Questions about Jason. Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 11:02:27 -0500 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-reply-to: <3C470F16.655A1E10@usa.net> Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alberto and group, What happens to JASON when he has a screen full of data? Does it scroll off the page?.. Can it be recovered? Also had great fun last night copying some Dex's 1 watt transmission at 600 miles. I can copy DEX at QRSS60 most every night, but to see his call sign takes many minutes!! JASON looks like it will print out at about a letter ever 10 seconds or so. Alberto,, will there be a version of this program with longer segment length to allow for longer integration of the signal ? Also might you explain to us how much faster in character speed this mode is than QRSS 60? Seems to be at least 10 times as fast maybe more. Thank you for a great time and a great program!!! Paulc W1VLF This Email was brought to you by a completely solar powered home network. Cloudbounce Webpage http://www.qsl.net/w1vlf/ GE Electrak E20 and E15 electric tractors Air Rifle Target Shooting Enthusiast From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7793 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2002 15:18:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jan 2002 15:18:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 1666 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2002 15:17:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jan 2002 15:17:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RxDM-0006o1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 15:15:28 +0000 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RxDL-0006nw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 15:15:27 +0000 Received: from host217-35-30-77.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.30.77] helo=dellboy) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16RxCZ-00012r-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 15:14:39 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01c1a0fc$06ad2da0$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: First Jason QSO? Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 15:14:41 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Dear all.
 
1515 utc
I have just worked Wolf DF0WD with 100% copy using Jason both ways. Wolf was running 50W and I was running 150W. Wolf's signals were audible here but a heavy noise level would have rendered CW copy very difficult. He would have been a good "O" copy on QRSS3.
It is very nice to leave the receiver running and come back from the kitchen with a nice cup of tea to find the next over printed on the screen, very lazy way of working!
 
73.
Dave
G3YXM
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22521 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2002 15:16:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jan 2002 15:16:13 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29064 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2002 15:16:17 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jan 2002 15:16:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Rx89-0006nj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 15:10:05 +0000 Received: from mta21-acc.tin.it ([212.216.176.74] helo=fep21-svc.tin.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Rx88-0006nE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 15:10:04 +0000 Received: from base ([212.171.197.170]) by fep21-svc.tin.it (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with SMTP id <20020119150839.NXSG3006.fep21-svc.tin.it@base> for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 16:08:39 +0100 From: "VALERIO" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 135921kHz T.A. Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 16:02:22 +0100 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.1.99] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <02011916022200.05004@base> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On the other side, please look for me on 20/01/2002 starting at 4:00 UTC (i hope) an 135921kHz. '73, IK5ZPV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 249 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2002 13:48:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jan 2002 13:48:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 22253 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2002 13:48:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jan 2002 13:48:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Rvlh-0006eR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 13:42:49 +0000 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Rvlg-0006eM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 13:42:48 +0000 Received: from [212.1.153.49] (helo=g4jnt) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 16RvdZ-0003By-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 13:34:27 +0000 Message-ID: <001501c1a0ef$0ea35e60$319901d4@g4jnt> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: G0MRF/SM6LKM DDS VFO and Jason Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 13:41:34 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: -----Original Message----- From: Johan Bodin To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 19 January 2002 00:34 Subject: Re: LF: G0MRF/SM6LKM DDS VFO and Jason >I think it's time for you to replace the batteries in your calculator. >> That's neat! But I make it 0.0083333 Hz resolution, >I make it 0.00083333 Hz = 10.0000 mHz / 12. >Both are submultiples of 1Hz... OOPS - Can't read exponential notation on a calculator properly. The 4.194304MHz GPS - frequency locked loop seems to be going now. Once locked, it 'blips' within 1Hz at fundamental and in the long term stays spot on. Dividing down, at 262144Hz the mean phase stays constant but blipping every second over abot 15 degrees. So if the fundamental is used to drive a DDS at 137kHz looks like better than 10 deg short term stability and GPS standard in the long term. Ideal for 30s BPSK but not much much good for higher frequency work, 1Hz sidebands ought to be noticable as well. Chip count has gone up to five now unfortunately, One for the oscillator , two for the binary counter, an 8 bit latch and PIC. But all cheap, the unit does lock up within a few minutes of turn on and does not need a high stability VCXO. Just to see how it worked, I also knocked up a conventional PLL using divide by 2^22 and 74HC4046 PLL chip. Did manage to get it to lock to GPS 1pps pulses eventually, but only after forcing the two signals into sync manually then precharging the filter capacitor to give nearly the correct frequency. That way it could be persuaded to lock up in 20 minutes. If started from cold and asked to lock itself, I estimate would take something like 5 - 8 hours ! Andy :-) Thanks for the source code. It explains everything. It's late, CU tomorrow. 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24516 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2002 10:29:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jan 2002 10:29:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 14539 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2002 10:28:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jan 2002 10:28:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RsiJ-0006Kw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 10:27:07 +0000 Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RsiI-0006Kr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 10:27:06 +0000 Received: from modem-39.bregor.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.142.167] helo=g3aqc) by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 16RshV-0007gT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 10:26:18 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01c1a0d3$c7f43ae0$05e9fea9@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: UK-NZ Beacon Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 10:25:58 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
I will transmit again today, on 135.921 QRSS120 from 1600 to 1730.
73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5687 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2002 09:32:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jan 2002 09:32:39 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29884 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2002 09:32:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jan 2002 09:32:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RrlG-0006F6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 09:26:06 +0000 Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.161]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RrlF-0006F1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 09:26:05 +0000 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.25.) id l.61.1983121f (4242) for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 04:25:10 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <61.1983121f.297a9576@aol.com> Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 04:25:10 EST Subject: Re: LF: Jason tonight? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Heinz and group,

Nice to meet you. Unfortunately I got your posting a bit too late,
but I'll drive to our clubstation DF0WD later today taking everything with me required for some Jason tests.

I hope to be QRV in the early afternoon, as soon as the OCXO permits (has been turned off for a couple of days). The frequency will be a clear spot around 137.520.
The problem is, no internet access from there - not even a telephone... how wonderful :-)

See you later.
Regards,
 Wolf   DL4YHF /  DF0WD. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8957 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2002 00:33:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jan 2002 00:33:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 14703 invoked from network); 19 Jan 2002 00:33:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jan 2002 00:33:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RjN3-0005TW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 00:28:33 +0000 Received: from fep04.swip.net ([130.244.199.132] helo=fep04-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RjN2-0005TR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 00:28:32 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.13.241]) by fep04-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020119002743.DCPH11222.fep04-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Sat, 19 Jan 2002 01:27:43 +0100 Message-ID: <003001c1a080$2e187f60$f10d97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB995D@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> Subject: Re: LF: G0MRF/SM6LKM DDS VFO and Jason Date: Sat, 19 Jan 2002 01:28:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andy, I think it's time for you to replace the batteries in your calculator. > That's neat! But I make it 0.0083333 Hz resolution, I make it 0.00083333 Hz = 10.0000 mHz / 12. Both are submultiples of 1Hz... :-) Thanks for the source code. It explains everything. It's late, CU tomorrow. 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16930 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2002 22:55:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 2002 22:55:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 26428 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2002 22:55:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 2002 22:55:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RhqJ-0005GH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 22:50:39 +0000 Received: from mta2-svc.virgin.net ([62.253.164.42]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RhqJ-0005GC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 22:50:39 +0000 Received: from ian ([62.252.132.12]) by mta2-svc.virgin.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20020118224950.LYWU10663.mta2-svc.virgin.net@ian> for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 22:49:50 +0000 Message-ID: <002901c1a072$97f1b2c0$0c84fc3e@ian> From: "Ian Kyle" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Badtrans. Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 22:45:16 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Couple of days ago was told I had a case of BADTRANS Trojan. Now deloused but if it got to anybody via my last posting ("good on yer, mate") then my abject apologies; sackcloth and ashes are the current garb. Ian GI8AYZ/MI0AYZ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22024 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2002 20:22:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 2002 20:22:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24384 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2002 19:27:48 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 2002 19:27:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ReWu-0004wm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 19:18:24 +0000 Received: from smtp1.a1.net ([194.48.125.36] helo=mkisp29-mgt) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ReWt-0004wh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 19:18:23 +0000 Received: from qsl.net (L1170P18.dipool.highway.telekom.at [62.46.210.50]) by smtp1.a1.net (iPlanet Messaging Server 5.1 (built May 7 2001)) with ESMTP id <0GQ5002Q3EW27Z@smtp1.a1.net> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 20:16:52 +0100 (MET) Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 20:16:50 +0100 From: "Heinz Schnait" Subject: LF: Jason tonight? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <3C4874A2.F309D00@qsl.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Accept-Language: de, en Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Anybody going to transmit in mode Jason tonight? 73 Heinz, OE5EEP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23337 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2002 14:45:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 2002 14:45:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 25579 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2002 14:45:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 2002 14:45:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Ra9r-0004Rt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 14:38:19 +0000 Received: from antiochus-fe0.ultra.net ([146.115.8.188]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Ra9q-0004Ro-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 14:38:18 +0000 Received: from comrex (209-122-234-143.s2207.apx2.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.234.143]) by antiochus-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n20340/mtc.v2) with SMTP id JAA18243 for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 09:37:10 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000e01c1a02e$1b047020$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB995D@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> Subject: Re: LF: G0MRF/SM6LKM DDS VFO and Jason Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 09:40:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andy, > That's neat! But I make it 0.0083333 Hz resolution, (still OK nice value > though) and can't be locked to a 1PPS signal. Better still, use it with an > AD9851 chip using the x6 PLL multiplier for 50mHz steps. Good thought. My only real goal in this case was to have the divisor remain an integer down to 10 mHz intervals, as I was using an 8-bit controller with display and keypad. For the moment, calibration against a well-calibrated ARGO screen has been sufficient, but I would obviously need to tune the DDS to some "magic" frequency to use more accurate methods. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23915 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2002 13:18:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 2002 13:18:11 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 3580 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2002 13:18:10 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 2002 13:18:10 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RYsW-0004HY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 13:16:20 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RYsV-0004HT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 13:16:20 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id NAA20926; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 13:25:19 GMT Received: (qmail 21443 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2002 14:04:21 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2002 14:04:21 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id NAA11548; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 13:33:39 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma011530; Fri, 18 Jan 02 13:33:29 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 13:21:57 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 13:15:21 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB995D@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: G0MRF/SM6LKM DDS VFO and Jason Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 13:15:14 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: That's neat! But I make it 0.0083333 Hz resolution, (still OK nice value though) and can't be locked to a 1PPS signal. Better still, use it with an AD9851 chip using the x6 PLL multiplier for 50mHz steps. Andy G4JNT -----Original Message----- From: John Andrews [mailto:w1tag@charter.net] Sent: 18 January 2002 17:40 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: G0MRF/SM6LKM DDS VFO and Jason Just to repeat a comment that I made last summer... I am using an AD9850 clocked with a 3579.545 kHz crystal pulled to 3579.1394 kHz. This allows integer resolution to 10 mHz. The results have been excellent, once I corrected a minor computational oversight! John Andrews, W1TAG -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26003 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2002 12:46:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 2002 12:46:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 28815 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2002 12:46:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 2002 12:46:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RYKE-0004Cm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 12:40:54 +0000 Received: from dc-mx05.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.15] helo=dc-mx05.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RYKC-0004Ch-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 12:40:53 +0000 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johncellar) by dc-mx05.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 830185 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 07:45:09 -0500 Message-ID: <003001c1a047$240034c0$0300a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <005601c19e0f$02d50ee0$1700a8c0@home> <3C45AD94.A920B8FC@usa.net> <3C46B9FA.BC73BC10@netscapeonline.co.uk> <3C4703C2.78D4B46F@usa.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020117235901.00ad8170@POP2.sympatico.ca> <000d01c1a003$deda9ea0$350d97d4@oemcomputer> Subject: Re: LF: G0MRF/SM6LKM DDS VFO and Jason Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 12:39:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Just to repeat a comment that I made last summer... I am using an AD9850 clocked with a 3579.545 kHz crystal pulled to 3579.1394 kHz. This allows integer resolution to 10 mHz. The results have been excellent, once I corrected a minor computational oversight! John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28755 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2002 11:40:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 2002 11:40:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 25603 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2002 11:40:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 2002 11:40:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RXLm-00044o-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 11:38:26 +0000 Received: from cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.171]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RXLl-00044j-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 11:38:25 +0000 Received: from modem-21.elurin.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.192.21] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 16RXKy-0004cD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 11:37:37 +0000 Message-ID: <000a01c1a014$92d35cc0$05e9fea9@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: UK-NZ Beacon Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 11:36:31 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
I will transmit again today from 1600utc till 1800 utc (grey line) frequency 135.921
qrss120. Hopefully someone in ZL will be able to set up Argo and capture a few frames. I hope to repeat this exercise nightly, at least when I am at home.
73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2052 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2002 11:21:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 2002 11:21:36 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 16485 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2002 11:21:34 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 2002 11:21:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RX2z-00041m-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 11:19:01 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RX2y-00041h-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 11:19:00 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id LAA30727; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 11:28:00 GMT Received: (qmail 16059 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2002 12:07:02 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2002 12:07:02 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id LAA04148; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 11:36:21 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma004134; Fri, 18 Jan 02 11:35:53 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 11:24:20 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 11:17:44 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB995A@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: G0MRF/SM6LKM DDS VFO and Jason Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 11:17:35 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >OK. It looks like we already have a standard. Andy, can you describe your protocol? I'll send it out under separate cover. >If we all clock our DDS chips with 5 or 10MHz from frequency standards, we >will have common "channels" although the numbers will not be nice (a lot of This is too prescriptive. For instance, I am looking at a simple GPS locking scheme that will allow any frequency that is a multiple of 1Hz to be locked giving very good long term stability, but poor short term over a few seconds - suitable for long duration signalling purposes. Using a 4.194304MHz is perfect for DDS synths as 'nice' frequencies occur automatically. The step is 1/1024Hz so 1Hz steps and its subdivisions are exact >It is probably a good idea to make soft phase >transitions considering the huge reactive power that is circulating in the >antenna circuits at the QRO stations. Swiching phase 180 degrees >instantaneously in such a setup would be like throwing in the reverse gear >when driving forward at 100 MPH... A Tx with a guard circuit such as the Decca one can survive such abuse - the only real problems is an ethical one of switching sidebands - but a spike of a few 100s of microseconds, a function of the antenna bandwidth, every few 10s of seconds isn't going to annoy too many people. BTW, What's MPH in Sweden - or any other country outside the US/UK for that matter ;-) Andy G4JNT -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8217 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2002 10:37:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 2002 10:37:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 13151 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2002 10:37:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 2002 10:37:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RWE7-0003v6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 10:26:27 +0000 Received: from fep04.swip.net ([130.244.199.132] helo=fep04-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RWE6-0003v1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 10:26:26 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.8.167]) by fep04-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020118102537.EQQQ28181.fep04-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 11:25:37 +0100 Message-ID: <004001c1a00a$8a254520$350d97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9958@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> Subject: LF: Re: RE: G0MRF/SM6LKM DDS VFO and Jason Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 11:25:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks Andy! A few questions: > Q Followed by eight hex digits for the frequency command word MSByte or LSByte first? > P Followed by two hex digits for phase word and [cr] You mentioned 5 bits (why not 8?) of phase data, are they right justified in this byte? > K Followed by 10 hex digits & [cr]. Read back user data, usually clock > frequency ??? 10 hex digits in the command!? It would be nice if we could agree on a standard format for the clock frequency readback. BTW, I didn't see any "write user data" command, is this data hard-coded? > R Readback current data values in operation - not necessarily those in > EEPROM How is this data formatted? Let's see if I got this right... All commands with hex argument, except "Y", should be terminated by [cr] and there should be no [cr] after single character commands. Ok? 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10004 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2002 09:44:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 2002 09:44:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 7117 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2002 09:43:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 2002 09:43:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RVTw-0003mW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 09:38:44 +0000 Received: from fep02.swip.net ([130.244.199.130] helo=fep02-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RVTv-0003mR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 09:38:43 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.13.53]) by fep02-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020118093752.FHJX4073.fep02-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 10:37:52 +0100 Message-ID: <000d01c1a003$deda9ea0$350d97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <005601c19e0f$02d50ee0$1700a8c0@home> <3C45AD94.A920B8FC@usa.net> <3C46B9FA.BC73BC10@netscapeonline.co.uk> <3C4703C2.78D4B46F@usa.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020117235901.00ad8170@POP2.sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: LF: G0MRF/SM6LKM DDS VFO and Jason Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 10:37:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Larry VA3LK wrote: > Please, for serial protocol just use what Andy has already done or do the > exact same functions, Integer steps at the limits of the DDS chip. OK. It looks like we already have a standard. Andy, can you describe your protocol? > The worst result for me would be doing something like 10 milliHz steps, > which again would be not quite 10 milliHz for those with different > Reference oscillator frequencies. The use of a second DDS to make a nice > round integer clock for a DDS would be the best solution but is overly > costly at the moment. If we all clock our DDS chips with 5 or 10MHz from frequency standards, we will have common "channels" although the numbers will not be nice (a lot of ugly decimals). The 10MHz guys (including me) will only have access to half the number of "channels" because of the doubled step size... However, 901943 "channels" on the 136kHz band is enough for me :-) > PS, one final point, I would implement a trigger input on the PIC as well > so that one can easily make the whole DDS setup coherent to a 1 Second > resource as well. I have that here now on the BPSK and it could be used to > squeeze a bit out of the system..... Yes, I am thinking about a way to implement this in the new software for the G0MRF DDS board. It is probably a good idea to make soft phase transitions considering the huge reactive power that is circulating in the antenna circuits at the QRO stations. Swiching phase 180 degrees instantaneously in such a setup would be like throwing in the reverse gear when driving forward at 100 MPH... 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9837 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2002 09:44:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 2002 09:44:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 7049 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2002 09:43:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 2002 09:43:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RVUX-0003mg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 09:39:21 +0000 Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.42]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RVUW-0003mb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 09:39:20 +0000 Received: from compaq ([62.253.44.71]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.27 201-229-121-127-20010626) with SMTP id <20020118093832.RZKQ8848.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@compaq> for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 09:38:32 +0000 Message-ID: <001701c1a003$d7b9ab20$472cfd3e@compaq> From: "Tracey Gardner" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Siemens D2008 Level Meter Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 09:37:46 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I've just acquired a Siemens D2008-K Level Meter, 200Hz - 18MHz, but I'm short of a manual for it. Does anybody on the list have a manual that they could copy for me or know where I could get hold of one from? Regards Tracey tracey.gardner@ntlworld.com Lincolnshire U.K. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23145 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2002 09:24:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 2002 09:24:59 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 14128 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2002 09:24:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 2002 09:24:36 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RVAi-0003jn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 09:18:52 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RVAg-0003ji-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 09:18:51 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id JAA20586; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 09:27:51 GMT Received: (qmail 9674 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2002 10:06:52 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 18 Jan 2002 10:06:52 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id JAA26100; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 09:36:11 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma026085; Fri, 18 Jan 02 09:35:51 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 09:24:17 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 09:17:41 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9958@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: G0MRF/SM6LKM DDS VFO and Jason Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 09:17:34 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >>From John Bodin >It would be very nice if we could agree on a simple serial protocol >that would allow any PC program, be it DOS or Windoze, to take total >control over the DDS (I know that Andy G4JNT has done something >in this direction). My DDS control protocol allows the 32 bit frequency word or 5 bit phase to be sent as printable Ascii hex characters using a simple serial protocol with simple handshaking, useable from any terminal or driver software, at 19200 baud. Driver software reads back user data from the DDS controller to let this know the clock frequency. That way, the software can be independant of any particular DDS unit it has to control. (Very useful when you have five DDS modules in the shack operating from clocks ranging from 5 MHz up to 94.45 MHz and soon 4.194304MHz as well) There is also a module address facility built in (thanks to Larry for that idea) to allow multidrop use where one serial line can control several DDS units, a-la Icom C-IV interface. Last option is a command that updates the frequency or phase in the DDS only after an external trigger pulse. This makes GPS timed PSK or FSK straightforwrd, after the new value is sent to the DDS controller, the new value will appear exactly 3.2us after the UTC timing pulse. Summary of the DDS module commands : ------------------------------------ The first character sent is a Board Address which precedes all commands. This is a single Hex character sent as ASCII 0 - F and potentially allows up to 16 modules to be driven from the same COM port. If correctly addressed, the module responds with a Z [cr][lf] and this response sould be waited for The next character is a command which may have hex data following it. Q Followed by eight hex digits for the frequency command word terminated by a carriage return P Followed by two hex digits for phase word and [cr] U Writes the data sent above to the AD9850 DDS chip T Writes the data to the AD9850 after the next 0/1 transition on the external trigger input W As for U, but also stores the data in the PIC's non-volatile EEPROM memory for switch on next time. Y Followed by one Hex digit, changes the board address and stores in EEPROM. No [cr] needed K Followed by 10 hex digits & [cr]. Read back user data, usually clock frequency R Readback current data values in operation - not necessarily those in EEPROM So, to update the frequency (to one mentioned a lot on this reflector :-| the following characters are sent assuming the board address is 7 The dot . means wait for a response : 7.Q06F58E8C[cr] 7.U Andy G4JNT -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28017 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2002 08:24:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 2002 08:24:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 7418 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2002 08:24:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 2002 08:24:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RUEi-0003dS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 08:18:56 +0000 Received: from 210-86-15-131.ipnets.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.131] helo=mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RUEg-0003dM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 08:18:55 +0000 Received: from mcalevey ([210.54.64.61]) by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20020118081732.BIPQ7411.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@mcalevey> for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 21:17:32 +1300 Message-ID: <001001c19ff9$4a7d8e20$3d4036d2@mcalevey> From: "mcalevey" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001501c19ebd$9002e180$05e9fea9@g3aqc> Subject: LF: Re: UK-NZ Beacon Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 21:21:59 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Laurie I would like to watch for your beacon but have no antenna due to a flood last week taking my loading coil away. Perhaps early next week I will be in action again. I think a couple of hours later than you were planning would be better as sunset here is not till 2025 utc. I am sure Bob ZL2CA would be keen to listen for you. Mike ZL4OL From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22847 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2002 05:18:21 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 2002 05:18:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11819 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2002 05:18:21 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 2002 05:18:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RRMc-0003PK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 05:14:54 +0000 Received: from tomts6.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.26] helo=tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RRMb-0003PF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 05:14:53 +0000 Received: from server1.sympatico.ca ([216.209.138.1]) by tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020118051403.YQCS746.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1.sympatico.ca> for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 00:14:03 -0500 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020117235901.00ad8170@POP2.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1aemm59@POP2.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 00:14:03 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Larry Kayser" Subject: Re: LF: G0MRF/SM6LKM DDS VFO and Jason In-reply-to: <008701c19fb6$f7816080$620d97d4@oemcomputer> References: <005601c19e0f$02d50ee0$1700a8c0@home> <3C45AD94.A920B8FC@usa.net> <3C46B9FA.BC73BC10@netscapeonline.co.uk> <3C4703C2.78D4B46F@usa.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Johan: >It would be very nice if we could agree on a simple serial protocol >that would allow any PC program, be it DOS or Windoze, to take total >control over the DDS (I know that Andy G4JNT has done something >in this direction). Please, for serial protocol just use what Andy has already done or do the exact same functions, Integer steps at the limits of the DDS chip. With Andy's I can set the DDS to any INTEGER count, steps of 1.1 MilliHz and I can also go around and set the Clock frequency so that the DDS output can stay the same while the Reference frequency moves (read drifts hi) around etc. This is all best done at high level as I see it. The latest QST has another DDS design with 1 Hz steps that are not quite 1 Hz really, rather sad to see the impact of thinking that can only cope with 1 Hz increments hi. The worst result for me would be doing something like 10 milliHz steps, which again would be not quite 10 milliHz for those with different Reference oscillator frequencies. The use of a second DDS to make a nice round integer clock for a DDS would be the best solution but is overly costly at the moment. The 16F628 is ideal for the new way to replace the 16F84. The serial UART is nice to work with. These devices are also now cheaper than the 16F84's, well at least they are at the moment by a small amount. For my needs here, I would give up the rotary control and the LCD, just use a serial port to do it all. I hope this finds you having fun....I am still stiff as a board so no climbing around here yet hi. Larry VA3LK PS, one final point, I would implement a trigger input on the PIC as well so that one can easily make the whole DDS setup coherent to a 1 Second resource as well. I have that here now on the BPSK and it could be used to squeeze a bit out of the system..... From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15255 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2002 00:47:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 2002 00:47:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 7391 invoked from network); 18 Jan 2002 00:47:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jan 2002 00:47:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RMtB-0002vj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 00:28:13 +0000 Received: from fep02.swip.net ([130.244.199.130] helo=fep02-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RMt9-0002ve-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 00:28:12 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.13.98]) by fep02-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020118002722.ENII4073.fep02-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Fri, 18 Jan 2002 01:27:22 +0100 Message-ID: <008701c19fb6$f7816080$620d97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <005601c19e0f$02d50ee0$1700a8c0@home> <3C45AD94.A920B8FC@usa.net> <3C46B9FA.BC73BC10@netscapeonline.co.uk> <3C4703C2.78D4B46F@usa.net> Subject: LF: G0MRF/SM6LKM DDS VFO and Jason Date: Fri, 18 Jan 2002 01:27:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello I know there are some DDS users/programmers out there! We have probably not seen the final variant of "sequential single tone modulation" yet. So, in order to avoid unnecessary (and painful) PIC software changes in the future, I'd suggest that we establish a standard. It would be very nice if we could agree on a simple serial protocol that would allow any PC program, be it DOS or Windoze, to take total control over the DDS (I know that Andy G4JNT has done something in this direction). I am in the process of rewriting the PIC software for G0MRF's DDS board, a serial input port is on the "todo" list. If the DDS clock frequency, and possibly also a division ratio and offset frequency, is known to the PC software (via a setup menu or whatever), the math can be done in the PC, only the DDS phase increment has to be sent to the DDS box. Proposed serial protocol: 9600 baud, 8N1. Only printable ASCII characters are used. '=' is used as "start-of-message" character. The '=' is followed by eight hexadecimal digits representing the 32-bit phase increment, MSB first! Example: "=0245FD4C3" The DDS box changes the output frequency if it receives 8 consecutive valid hex digits after the leading '='. In case of error, it will do nothing but continue putting out the old frequency and wait for a new '=' start character. A simple checksum byte (two hex characters) could be added at the end to prevent the TX from exploding if the frequency data should get corrupted from RF interference... Either "vertical parity" (just XOR the bytes) or a modulo 256 sum. CRC seems to be overkill... (Alberto has indicated that he might add direct DDS TX control to Jason if all DDS owners/programmers can agree on a serial protocol) Please comment! 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12384 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 18:22:23 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 18:22:23 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1534 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 18:22:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 18:22:04 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RH93-0002HW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 18:20:13 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RH92-0002HR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 18:20:12 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16RH8G-0004jp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 18:19:24 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16RH8F-0006do-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 18:19:23 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020117180313.00a86760@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 18:18:03 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: Jason Wednesday evening... In-reply-to: <3C470F16.655A1E10@usa.net> References: <3.0.5.32.20020116200443.0099d780@pop3.esoterica.pt> <001d01c19ecc$f4471260$1700a8c0@home> <5.1.0.14.0.20020117112637.00a99b98@gemini.herts.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 18:51 17/01/2002 +0100, you wrote: >Hi Jim, > I have been unable to reproduce this behaviour... even if changing center >frequency while transmitting, everytime it worked ok. Of course the new >frequency is used at the next tone time, but no problems as far as the dialog >box is concerned. You talk about Task Manager, so you must be using >either Win NT or Win 2000. I tested Jason both with Win98 and Win 2000, >not with NT. Could be this the culprit ? >Anybody else observed such phenomenon ? > >73 Alberto I2PHD Dear Alberto, I tried it on this PC at work (Windows 2000), and my laptop (Win 98), with identical results. I can't remember what the win98 version of task manager is called, but there is something which performs a similar function. But I tried it again just now (at work), and it worked perfectly! Hmmm - I'll try it again when I get home, but it looks like it must just have been "finger trouble" on my part - sorry for getting you going! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5928 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 18:01:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 18:01:58 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11638 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 17:55:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 17:55:17 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RGiB-0002CT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 17:52:27 +0000 Received: from e34.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.132]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RGiA-0002CN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 17:52:26 +0000 Received: from westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com [9.99.140.22]) by e34.co.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA47272 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 12:48:34 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss4.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.69]) by westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0HHpZr102664 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:51:35 -0700 Message-ID: <3C470F16.655A1E10@usa.net> Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 18:51:18 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Jason Wednesday evening... References: <3.0.5.32.20020116200443.0099d780@pop3.esoterica.pt> <001d01c19ecc$f4471260$1700a8c0@home> <5.1.0.14.0.20020117112637.00a99b98@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz wrote: > I found that trying to change the centre frequency caused the program to > lock up - you could enter a new frequency OK, but it then seemed to be > impossible to close the dialogue box - the only way to get out of it was to > shut down the whole program using ctrl-alt-del and the task manager. Hi Jim, I have been unable to reproduce this behaviour... even if changing center frequency while transmitting, everytime it worked ok. Of course the new frequency is used at the next tone time, but no problems as far as the dialog box is concerned. You talk about Task Manager, so you must be using either Win NT or Win 2000. I tested Jason both with Win98 and Win 2000, not with NT. Could be this the culprit ? Anybody else observed such phenomenon ? 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28125 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 17:45:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 17:45:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 14752 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 17:45:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 17:45:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RGYH-0002Ac-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 17:42:13 +0000 Received: from imailg2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.180]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RGYG-0002AX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 17:42:12 +0000 Received: from modem-66.ancalagon.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.107.194] helo=g3aqc) by imailg2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 16RGXU-0005xX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 17:41:24 +0000 Message-ID: <000f01c19f7e$39d46100$05e9fea9@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C46FE33.CC42769E@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: ZL Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 17:41:02 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: gii3kev To: rsgb rsgb Sent: Thursday, January 17, 2002 4:39 PM Subject: LF: ZL > Is there anyone actually listening in ZL for Eu acty and if so what > times and what mode. > 73 de Mal/G3KEV > I hope so Mal,I posted a message giving the time 1600-1800utc(grey line) and freq. 135.921.5 . I am using QRSS120 2:1 dot /dash ratio. 80 is open at this time so I think there's a good chance. I will be transmitting each night when I am at home. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4795 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 17:23:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 17:23:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18224 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 17:11:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 17:11:14 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RFxT-000265-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 17:04:11 +0000 Received: from e32.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.130]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RFxR-000260-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 17:04:10 +0000 Received: from westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com [9.99.140.22]) by e32.co.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA158346 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 12:00:14 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss4.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.69]) by westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0HH3Er100466 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:03:15 -0700 Message-ID: <3C4703C2.78D4B46F@usa.net> Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 18:02:58 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Jason test References: <005601c19e0f$02d50ee0$1700a8c0@home> <3C45AD94.A920B8FC@usa.net> <3C46B9FA.BC73BC10@netscapeonline.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: gii3kev wrote: > > Hello Alberto > Will look for your Jason transmission. Have seen G3YXM with a big signal > on 137.52 khz. > Will try and decode both signals when I hear them again. Expect you are > using a similar freq. Mal, there has been a misunderstanding, I am afraid. I cannot transmit on the 136 kHz as I don't have a Tx, yet. I was just referring to me listening for Dave's transmission. Glad that you received Dave, maybe you can try now for Geri, already set up, or, heaven forbids, for Dexter W4DEX, whose 1 W Jason beacon has been copied twice in Maryland, 500+ km away. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10207 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 16:45:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 16:45:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15088 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 16:45:58 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 16:45:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RFa3-00021J-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 16:39:59 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RFa2-00021E-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 16:39:58 +0000 Received: from ldsas03-67-118-15.cw-visp.com ([212.137.118.15] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16RFOT-00006N-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 16:28:02 +0000 Message-ID: <3C46FE33.CC42769E@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 16:39:15 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: ZL Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Is there anyone actually listening in ZL for Eu acty and if so what times and what mode. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 113 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 16:22:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 16:22:32 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15523 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 16:08:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 16:08:02 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RErK-0001vV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 15:53:46 +0000 Received: from d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RErJ-0001vQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 15:53:45 +0000 Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.COM (1.0.0) with ESMTP id PAA50436 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 15:30:18 GMT Received: from usa.net (ss9.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.75]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0HFnwI87256 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 15:50:01 GMT Message-ID: <3C46F310.A59193AC@usa.net> Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 16:51:44 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Introducing Jason References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020115133352.00a65df8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <3.0.1.16.20020117110911.30b7a52c@pb623250.kuleuven.be> <5.1.0.14.0.20020117133723.00a660f0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz wrote: > A query -What range of sound card audio frequencies can be used by Jason? > Dear Jim, the sampling frequency used in Jason, both for input and output, is 11025 Hz. I limited the choice of the center frequency in the Options menu from 50 to 5000 Hz. > Also, another "wouldn't it be nice if...." request to waste more of your > valuable weekend Don't say this too loud.... my wife could be hearing.... ;-( > - perhaps Jason could have the option to transmit LSB as > well as USB If I understand you well, this would mean that also when transmitting, the 'wraparound' on the 17 slots could go in one sense or the other, depending on the option chosen. This would eliminate some confusion from the receiving site, as you could always transmit either LSB or USB even without this option, only the receivers should be set the opposite way, i.e. Jason set to LSB when the Rx is set to USB and viceversa. In the sake of 'user-friendliness' your proposal is hereby accepted, Sir :-) 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29940 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 14:42:05 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 14:42:05 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27031 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 14:42:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 14:42:04 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RDda-0001m5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:35:30 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RDdZ-0001m0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:35:29 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16RDcn-00055O-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:34:41 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16RDO8-0007nG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:19:32 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020117133723.00a660f0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 14:18:15 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: Introducing Jason In-reply-to: <3C46BBCF.B1FF720E@usa.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020115133352.00a65df8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <3.0.1.16.20020117110911.30b7a52c@pb623250.kuleuven.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Alberto, A query -What range of sound card audio frequencies can be used by Jason? Also, another "wouldn't it be nice if...." request to waste more of your valuable weekend - perhaps Jason could have the option to transmit LSB as well as USB - this would mean that, if using an SSB exciter with mediocre carrier and unwanted sideband suppression, the unwanted mixing products could be positioned at harmless frequencies, eg underneath DCF39! It would also cater for funny oscillator frequencies. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21839 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 12:42:39 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 12:42:39 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5430 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 12:42:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 12:42:19 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RBpT-0001XF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 12:39:39 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RBpR-0001XA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 12:39:37 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16RBod-0000Dz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 12:38:47 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16RBod-0004dY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 12:38:47 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020117112637.00a99b98@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 12:37:25 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: Jason Wednesday evening... In-reply-to: <3C45F286.BD3BAB6F@usa.net> References: <3.0.5.32.20020116200443.0099d780@pop3.esoterica.pt> <001d01c19ecc$f4471260$1700a8c0@home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Alberto, LF group, I tried version 0.91 of Jason on my 300MHz PC and also on a P133 - I was able to receive 'YXM on both, although only the "slow" mode worked on the 133MHz machine as you would expect. I could not see any great difference in decoding between them, but with Dave's strong signal the comparison was probably not a good one. I also noticed the repeating characters phenomenon - it happens when receiving noise, but also repeated "extra" characters pop up in the decoded text when there is a marginal signal ( I got "the quick bbrown foox" at one point), which was suprising. I found that trying to change the centre frequency caused the program to lock up - you could enter a new frequency OK, but it then seemed to be impossible to close the dialogue box - the only way to get out of it was to shut down the whole program using ctrl-alt-del and the task manager. Looking forward to further developments! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4657 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 12:09:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 12:09:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 19395 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 12:09:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 12:09:23 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RBB1-0001Og-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:57:51 +0000 Received: from d06lmsgate-4.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RBAz-0001Ob-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:57:50 +0000 Received: from d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.147]) by d06lmsgate-4.uk.ibm.COM (1.0.0) with ESMTP id LAA42288 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:43:37 GMT Received: from usa.net (ss9.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.75]) by d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0HBtl183456 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:55:48 GMT Message-ID: <3C46BBCF.B1FF720E@usa.net> Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 12:56:00 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Introducing Jason References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020115133352.00a65df8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <3.0.1.16.20020117110911.30b7a52c@pb623250.kuleuven.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik Strobbe wrote: > But ... this would require a 'Jason signal' using 25.2Hz steps instead of > 0.252Hz steps (producing an audio signal of 800Hz +/- 400Hz instead of > 800Hz +/- 4Hz). > I don't know how hard this it to implement ? Hi Rik, the audio tones in Jason are generated using a software implementations of a NCO (Numerical Controlled Oscillator), where a long sine table is periodically sampled according to a phase accumulator whose increment is a function of the wanted output frequency (among other things). So, as long as the requirement is not to have a frequency resolution finer than 0.084 Hz, which is a limit dictated by other constraints in Jason, it is a matter of just changing a couple of values in the program to do what you want. What will take the greatest part of the time needed to do this, is the user interfacing. There must be a new Options Menu choice, where you will be able to specify, let' say, a multiplying factor which will correspond to the division you will perform on the generated RF signal. And then a check must be performed to see whether the resulting range is compatible with the center ftrequency specified for Rx... negative frequencies exist only in the analytical domain, not in the real world ! But it is a work of not more than one evening, maybe less. So I think I will do it after the mod to the encoding method, to use the 17-slot format. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9503 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 11:54:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 11:54:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22272 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 11:54:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 11:54:27 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RB2J-0001Mc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:48:51 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RB2I-0001MW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:48:50 +0000 Received: from ldsas11-75-126-60.cw-visp.com ([212.137.126.60] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16RAqh-0004y9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:36:51 +0000 Message-ID: <3C46B9FA.BC73BC10@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:48:10 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Jason test References: <005601c19e0f$02d50ee0$1700a8c0@home> <3C45AD94.A920B8FC@usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alberto di Bene wrote: > Dave Pick wrote: > > > [...]More tests if anyone wants them. > > Hello Dave, > > thanks for your offer. I am sure that, if this evening you will > transmit on the same frequency and time of yesterday evening, > I won't be the only one trying to receive you, testing also the > low speed version just uploaded. TNX. > > 73 Alberto I2PHD Hello Alberto Will look for your Jason transmission. Have seen G3YXM with a big signal on 137.52 khz. Will try and decode both signals when I hear them again. Expect you are using a similar freq. With some modifications to Jason it looks promising, and would like to compare it to QRS under poor propogation conditions. I suppose one advantage is the direct print out of data but am surprised no one developed a software package to print out the machine generated QRS. Morse readers have been about for some time for normal cw, especially auto generated cw. 73 and GL de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28038 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 11:50:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 11:50:28 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16168 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 11:50:24 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 11:50:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RB0C-0001MR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:46:40 +0000 Received: from mailout10.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.21]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RB09-0001MJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:46:37 +0000 Received: from fwd05.sul.t-online.de by mailout10.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16RAzG-0004a2-0O; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 12:45:42 +0100 Received: from 217.82.40.166 (0607144537-0001@[217.82.40.166]) by fwd05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16RAzD-1S1aimC; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 12:45:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: LF: 1qso From: "bernd grupe" To: "lf-group" X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 4.009 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------010808090201020600010801" Date: 17 Jan 2002 11:45 GMT Message-ID: <16RAzD-1S1aimC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0607144537-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010808090201020600010801 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Dave and Geri, copied your first qso with jason. Guess Johan Bodin is right, when he explained, that jason repeats the last character when the transmission stops. 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UEuoQaoh1GM6oagmC4NUQ52g1E7w1BKFd2YyFRDqOMwatoagmCvTyjAXziIK3+iDVmGoJtW5 MY1c++ItR+qDVDUEwVvAD6TEOreMaoagn1d8GqIc4gCtzDUE2rPojAVEWqDVDUE2qMahkxFq g1Q1BMFQaucQgwah6Yagm1Zg1D6YhB2g1Y2hqCbV6YNUQ6gO+AKzDUE2c98Y1RFq3MAORmGo Jgr54NXfEOsmDMNQTavTvAFbxBrGe2M6tt+UNQS6sf8ACM6ohChg84Eq3hqCbVz7oNW0QhWA YNXb3Q1BLqMAVEQJyRADyhqCbVAFbbRDqg1Q1BNkcvtjAPPsiLUcGDV2w1BLqjOrnEOqDVtD UEoVsYAqIs4OIAd4aglCu+MhUQatz/XGdUNQTat+f1QZ3iAKwcRnVDUE2rY/1QFQ3xEOrcQZ hqCbVue6Maoi1RjVvDUE2qDV+xiIHb6IM7Q1BNqg1d0QgwFR0mGoJc9kGrZXZEQVmDOAYagm 1QBW/oMQ6oNR3hqCbVGM755xFrgSrcgQ1BNq794WVLIN93zj5WP6PloY+rvhbUj/AK83z/Gx /R8tGMi4B50mCPcEcKB//9k= --------------010808090201020600010801-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7599 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 11:10:18 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 11:10:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16680 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 11:10:20 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 11:10:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RAKk-0001Gj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:03:50 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16RAKk-0001Ga-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:03:50 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g0HB2VfJ052790 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 12:02:31 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20020117115907.310fdade@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:59:07 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: tip : downloading from QSL.NET In-reply-to: <3C45B71C.6A4B7E09@usa.net> References: <005601c19e0f$02d50ee0$1700a8c0@home> <3C45AD94.A920B8FC@usa.net> <001a01c19eaf$d828c320$1700a8c0@home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > thanks, also for mirroring the software. Qsl.net seems to be rather slow >these days. I noticed that accessing QSL.NET often goes much faster in the morning (Europe), maybe because the major part of the users (USA) is in bed at these hours. This morning at 9 UTC it took no more than 10 seconds to download the Jason package from QSL.NET 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8585 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 10:26:07 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 10:26:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11214 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 10:26:09 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 10:26:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16R9dB-00017Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:18:49 +0000 Received: from ns3.swh.sk ([192.108.125.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16R9d8-00017O-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:18:47 +0000 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes.swh.sk [192.108.125.60]) by ns3.swh.sk (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0HAHWk26341 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:17:32 +0100 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA11853 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:17:24 +0100 (MET) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:17:21 +0100 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E0333C191@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: NASA HF-4E Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:17:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi LF-ers... Anybody have a good experience with NASA HF-4E receiver on LF ? 73 de Rich OM2TW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20420 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 10:19:13 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 10:19:13 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18162 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 10:19:16 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 10:19:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16R9YS-00016l-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:13:56 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16R9YR-00016g-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:13:55 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g0HACZfJ072728 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:12:36 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20020117110911.30b7a52c@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:09:11 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Introducing Jason In-reply-to: <3C44631A.942D751C@usa.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020115133352.00a65df8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Alberto, I just downloaded the 'slow PC' version of Jason and will try it over the next weekend. Meanwhile I am still thinking about an easy (= fast & cheap) way to transmit Jason. Simplest way is to use my existing HF tranceiver and put the soundcard output to the mike. Since my tranceiver (and probably most other) won't transmit at 136kHz I either have to : - transvert a HF signal down to 136kHz - devide the HF signal down to 136kHz (only for non-linear modes, including Jason) I prefer the second option for several reasons : - dividing by 100 will increase signal stability by 100 (and reduce any PLL jitter by 100) - diving by 100 will allow me to tune in 0.1Hz steps (transvering would allow only 10Hz steps) But ... this would require a 'Jason signal' using 25.2Hz steps instead of 0.252Hz steps (producing an audio signal of 800Hz +/- 400Hz instead of 800Hz +/- 4Hz). I don't know how hard this it to implement ? I know that you are spending a lot of time on Argo, Jason etc.. so it this takes to much time just ignore this request. 73, Rik ON7YD PS : Divide by 100 would require a 13.57 - 13.78 MHz signal, advantage = easy frequency reading, disadvantage = out of a ham band. Alternative would be to divide by 104, that would require a signal of 14.1128 - 14.3312 MHz (within the 20 meter band) but disadvantage = difficult frequency reading. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19966 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 10:16:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 10:16:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26418 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 10:16:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 10:16:47 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16R9U3-00015o-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:09:23 +0000 Received: from d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16R9U2-00015d-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:09:22 +0000 Received: from d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.147]) by d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.COM (1.0.0) with ESMTP id JAA13272 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:46:00 GMT Received: from usa.net (ss9.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.75]) by d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0HA7M185996 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:07:22 GMT Message-ID: <3C46A266.17645993@usa.net> Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 11:07:34 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Jason repeats characters References: <200201160949_MC3-EE22-1A6B@compuserve.com> <3C459E5F.23959E4C@usa.net> <008f01c19edb$284c4cc0$f70c97d4@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Johan Bodin wrote: > I have noticed that when the transmission stops and Jason is exposed > to noise, he (it?) usually repeats the last transmitted character. > Judging from the waterfall, Dave transmitted only a single K at the end of > his transmission but I got five K's on the screen! Statistically, that shouldn't > have happened unless Jason has some kind of unintentional "memory"...? > > Maybe LF noise isn't random chaos after all... :-) > Dear Johan, yes, that's what I have observed too. I would like to beleive in your last sentence, thinking that in the chaos there are some 'strange attractors' :-) but more realistically I think to have found in the decoding logic what could explain that. During this coming weekend I will change the signalling format to use the 17-slot method, and will do also some tests for the above. Thanks for the report. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11443 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 10:01:56 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 10:01:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3025 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 10:01:54 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 10:01:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16R9Ht-00012B-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:56:49 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16R9Hs-000124-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:56:48 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g0H9tSfJ092802 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:55:29 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20020117105204.30b7316c@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:52:04 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: G3YXM's Jason test sigs In-reply-to: <3.0.1.16.20020117101245.4677afec@pb623250.kuleuven.be> References: <3C458059.44CF7601@usa.net> <5.1.0.14.0.20020116102434.00a7a7f8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >I don't think that bandwidth indepency is of much importance, we just have >to agree on what bandwith is used. Or eventually Jason could have USB/LSB >switch. Oops, typing too fast : read sideband instead of bandwidth Rik From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26143 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 09:24:56 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 09:24:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28877 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 09:24:59 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 09:24:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16R8fs-0000xH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:17:32 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16R8fr-0000xB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 09:17:31 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g0H9GAfJ010984 for ; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:16:10 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20020117101245.4677afec@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 10:12:45 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: G3YXM's Jason test sigs In-reply-to: <3C458059.44CF7601@usa.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020116102434.00a7a7f8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >So, what would all you judge more important, sideband independence, >or bandwidth used ? Your vote will decide the final format for Jason. Hello Alberto, As bandwidth is important for : 1. reducing QRM to other to a minimum 2. finding a clear spot that covers the required bandwidth I would vote pro. I don't think that bandwidth indepency is of much importance, we just have to agree on what bandwith is used. Or eventually Jason could have USB/LSB switch. Thanks for the good work, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 142 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 06:32:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 06:32:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 1067 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 06:32:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 06:32:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16R5zE-0000gE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 06:25:20 +0000 Received: from mail2.dada.it ([195.110.96.69] helo=mail.dada.it) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16R5zB-0000g9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 17 Jan 2002 06:25:17 +0000 Received: (qmail 6765 invoked from network); 17 Jan 2002 06:23:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cestag) (195.110.103.28) by mail.dada.it with SMTP; 17 Jan 2002 06:23:56 -0000 Message-ID: <002f01c19f1f$62c0f560$1c676ec3@cestag> From: "cesare tagliabue" To: "LF group" Subject: LF: test jason091 Date: Thu, 17 Jan 2002 07:22:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------010300000004060205000606" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010300000004060205000606 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hello Dave and Alberto
        Yesterday evening, testing Jason 091, I've received a test message, although with some errors, that I think was sent by G3YXM. I've mailed a screenshot but the message is not passed on reflector. Now I've reduced the file and hope it is OK. Note that I've received the test using only my loop antenna, so the signal was quite weak. My compliments to Alberto for the software and hope I will be very soon active with this mode. 73  Cesare
 
Cesare Tagliabue   I 5 TGC
WW-Loc  JN53PS
e-mail: cestag@dada.it
url: http://www.dadacasa.com/i5tgc
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Dz/+Wz0eaZmN2O/sYzthu/8AM2PP6X/ur/ym69Z+A9N1ezduh6cRij6cv93D+1/xHr/2/wDz Z/3qZ/gPSzww6epCEJep5ZbfVl/vf2z/AL3/ANB5Mf8Aa6XL0+JvrfwfB1gjdwMBsjLD/Ll6 X9v9k/8AZb/yj/u/916ePJk9TfB+H4un6b9kFyx1OB3nzSjl/u/2vR/77/ym30PSR6LDHBjJ MY7q3/F5v5v/AJT/AO9eicRMGMhcTpIS80ZRfm83/lvfsuSPUdDUpxMp+jn82L/yh+zf2/5u D/0X9f8A8bl6n+U+r034diwyy5K1z0c2Mn1cO7+Z6/p+rj/tZPXy/wBz/wA1en/La6T8Ox9H CWGJlLFIy/lZPPjxxl/dw4P5f/D5P95jz5P/AEJkyeo9B+F4fw7f6N+c7pbj9mP9vDj/APKW D/zb/wB7le5V5VVVbVbVeVVVW1W1XlVVVtVtUv8A/9XQf+q7/wAw/wDvprH8eH/xOT/6hd/x D/gpccnn4f8AcL/5a/8Aw2T/AMbL/wB19I++qpQqpQqpVCUJUoVVVVSgpVUKqVR2VKFVKEqq qqqhKFSqqqEqqFVIVCX/2Q== --------------010300000004060205000606-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10890 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 23:43:10 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 23:43:10 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3792 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 23:42:50 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 23:42:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QzgH-0008T5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 23:41:21 +0000 Received: from galahad.joust.net ([63.108.136.2] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QzgF-0008T0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 23:41:19 +0000 Received: from benny-hill (m7-137-149.joust.net [63.108.137.149]) by galahad.joust.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g0GNeT422898 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:40:30 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <200201162340.g0GNeT422898@galahad.joust.net> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:39:19 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Steve Dove" Subject: LF: Thanks Laurie! X-Mailer: Opera 5.02 build 856a X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ...for a fine crossband QSO. Beautiful copy. 73, Steve W3EEE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24652 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 23:17:17 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 23:17:17 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23932 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 23:17:22 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 23:17:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QzAQ-0008OA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 23:08:26 +0000 Received: from galahad.joust.net ([63.108.136.2] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QzAP-0008O5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 23:08:25 +0000 Received: from benny-hill (m7-137-149.joust.net [63.108.137.149]) by galahad.joust.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g0GN7Z416469 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:07:35 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <200201162307.g0GN7Z416469@galahad.joust.net> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:06:25 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Steve Dove" Subject: LF: G3AQC de W3EEE X-Mailer: Opera 5.02 build 856a X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Laurie, 7030? ur OOO here. 73, Steve From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5183 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 22:17:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 22:17:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 653 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 22:17:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 22:17:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QyLP-0008Ft-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:15:43 +0000 Received: from fep04.swip.net ([130.244.199.132] helo=fep04-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QyLO-0008Fo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:15:42 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.12.39]) by fep04-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020116221356.MUXB21176.fep04-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 23:13:56 +0100 Message-ID: <008f01c19edb$284c4cc0$f70c97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200201160949_MC3-EE22-1A6B@compuserve.com> <3C459E5F.23959E4C@usa.net> Subject: LF: Jason repeats characters Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 23:13:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Alberto, > Also the problems of occasional double letters, and systematic > errors are under scrutiny. I have noticed that when the transmission stops and Jason is exposed to noise, he (it?) usually repeats the last transmitted character. Judging from the waterfall, Dave transmitted only a single K at the end of his transmission but I got five K's on the screen! Statistically, that shouldn't have happened unless Jason has some kind of unintentional "memory"...? Even when receiving noise only, there are often sequences of 2 to 5 equal characters. Maybe LF noise isn't random chaos after all... :-) 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5043 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 22:15:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 22:15:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 2355 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 22:15:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 22:15:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QyJR-0008Fc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:13:41 +0000 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QyJQ-0008FX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:13:41 +0000 Received: from host213-122-161-229.btinternet.com ([213.122.161.229] helo=presario-1920) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16QyIX-0001ho-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:12:46 +0000 From: "John W Gould" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group@Blacksheep.Org" Subject: LF: 136kHz band guidelines Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:14:18 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: A couple of typos have been brought to my attenting regarding the proposed RSGB Guidelines for 136kHz. The web page has been amended accordingly. The page can be found at http://www.g3wkl.freeserve.co.uk/lf/136kHz.html John, G3WKL RSGB HF Committee From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17343 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 22:07:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 22:07:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 13963 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 22:07:14 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 22:07:14 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Qxj4-000896-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:36:06 +0000 Received: from d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Qxj3-00088z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:36:05 +0000 Received: from d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.147]) by d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.COM (1.0.0) with ESMTP id VAA92764 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:12:43 GMT Received: from usa.net (ss1.pok.socks.ibm.com [9.14.3.53]) by d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0GLYDe70558 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:34:13 GMT Message-ID: <3C45F286.BD3BAB6F@usa.net> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:37:10 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Jason Wednesday evening... References: <3.0.5.32.20020116200443.0099d780@pop3.esoterica.pt> <001d01c19ecc$f4471260$1700a8c0@home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave and the group, first of all, thanks for your time. Sorry to say that this evening I haven't been able to receive anything from Dave. I even started Spectran, but no traces were visible. This evening the propagation is much worse than yesterday. So I can consider lucky the choice of yesterday evening for the first test... Moreover, at about 20:30 UTC a strong, stable, unmodulated carrier showed up at an audio frequency of 798.48 Hz, so the reception would have been anyway ruined, even if the signals of Dave were present here. Any other reception report ? 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13724 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 21:28:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 21:28:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 11379 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 21:28:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 21:28:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QxVz-000872-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:22:35 +0000 Received: from fep03.swip.net ([130.244.199.131] helo=fep03-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QxVx-00086x-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:22:33 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.12.247]) by fep03-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020116212141.MIYE2933.fep03-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:21:41 +0100 Message-ID: <002501c19ed3$daa7c280$f70c97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <005601c19e0f$02d50ee0$1700a8c0@home> <3C45AD94.A920B8FC@usa.net> <001a01c19eaf$d828c320$1700a8c0@home> Subject: LF: Solid copy in Sweden! Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 22:21:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------050705090305050600070404" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050705090305050600070404 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Wow! Dave G3YXM wrote: > Yes I will transmit for one hour from 2000 utc on 137.520 using Jason 0.91 > in "Slow" mode. I read Dave's message at 2000 UTC, downloaded Jason 0.91 from his mirror site (qsl.net was dead...), checked my GPS frequency standard - it was tracking 8 "vehicles" - phase error was negligible, connected the standard to my CR-304 receiver, tuned to 135.3kHz, selected USB, started Jason and typed 2220Hz as RX center frequency and selected "slow speed" (350MHz steam PC). Then I clicked the RX button... The attached picture tells it all... This is too good to be true... I must be dreaming... 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kkfg9Hx6eMPT2/g99Hxnn+L31PR7njDp/N9HuP8AHxnjD09/Vx76Pr4x7j1x0+njDz6+3o9f T//Z --------------050705090305050600070404-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3822 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 21:23:54 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 21:23:54 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4787 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 21:23:57 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 21:23:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QxUt-00086o-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:21:27 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QxUs-00086j-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:21:27 +0000 Received: from blanch.pncl.co.uk (214.235.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.235.214]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g0GLKc719920 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:20:38 GMT Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020116211013.00a19560@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 21:21:56 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: Jason MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Excellent Jason copy tonight, Dave and Alberto, on my 233 machine in normal mode. Also had a 100 set up using Spectran in 0.042 Hz mode running on same audio. Sigs looked much the same. Rx antenna was just 1 foot of wire without preamp to try to get some noise into your basically very strong sig. Rx was 756PRO in CW using 100 Hz BW. No audible sig. Next time, I'll set up the 100 in Jason slow mode and run it in parallel with the 233 in normal mode to see if any difference. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15352 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 20:37:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 20:37:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 10635 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 20:37:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 20:37:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QwkR-000808-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:33:27 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QwkQ-000803-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:33:26 +0000 Received: from host217-35-30-77.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.30.77] helo=dellboy) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16Qwjd-0007ml-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:32:37 +0000 Message-ID: <001d01c19ecc$f4471260$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.5.32.20020116200443.0099d780@pop3.esoterica.pt> Subject: Re: LF: A first Jason QSO ... Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:32:44 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks Brian. That seemed to by my half of the QSO and also my first reception report from CT! 73. Dave G3YXM. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Rogerson" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 16, 2002 8:04 PM Subject: Re: LF: A first Jason QSO ... > Part of QSO received in CT and am now putting it on my web pages. > > 73, Brian > > At 14:39 16/01/2002 -0500, you wrote: > >.. almost took place onight ... > > > >Hello LF group, especially hello Alberto, > > > >I called cq in Jason tonight and got a clear answer by Dave, G3YXM. After i > >gave him "o" (what is the report system for Jason ;-), I completely lost > >his signal. I have a nasty carrier right in the middle of the reception > >window that might be the reason ... > > > >Dave, I will give it another try later and first try to receive your 20.00 > >UTC transmission tonight. > > > >Best 73, we will keep trying! Alberto: thanks for the software in general > >and especially for the adjustable tones. It works fine with my EX-1001 SSB > >Exciter from Hagenuk. > > > >Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) > > > > > > > 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W > http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2483 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 20:08:44 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 20:08:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24198 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 20:08:42 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 20:08:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QwJJ-0007w7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:05:25 +0000 Received: from dargolad.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.27]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QwJI-0007w2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:05:24 +0000 Received: from srv17slx.esoterica.pt (srv17slx.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.47]) by dargolad.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g0GK4aM07092 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:04:36 GMT Received: from slave-6 (por019.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.19]) by srv17slx.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g0GK4Zq16544 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:04:35 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020116200443.0099d780@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 20:04:43 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: A first Jason QSO ... In-reply-to: <200201161439_MC3-EE29-F1FF@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Part of QSO received in CT and am now putting it on my web pages. 73, Brian At 14:39 16/01/2002 -0500, you wrote: >.. almost took place onight ... > >Hello LF group, especially hello Alberto, > >I called cq in Jason tonight and got a clear answer by Dave, G3YXM. After i >gave him "o" (what is the report system for Jason ;-), I completely lost >his signal. I have a nasty carrier right in the middle of the reception >window that might be the reason ... > >Dave, I will give it another try later and first try to receive your 20.00 >UTC transmission tonight. > >Best 73, we will keep trying! Alberto: thanks for the software in general >and especially for the adjustable tones. It works fine with my EX-1001 SSB >Exciter from Hagenuk. > >Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) > > > 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8845 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 19:47:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 19:47:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 7239 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 19:47:17 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 19:47:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Qvvb-0007sE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 19:40:55 +0000 Received: from siaag1ab.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QvvW-0007s9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 19:40:50 +0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id OAA05650 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:39:31 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:39:14 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: A first Jason QSO ... To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200201161439_MC3-EE29-F1FF@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: .. almost took place onight ... Hello LF group, especially hello Alberto, I called cq in Jason tonight and got a clear answer by Dave, G3YXM. After i gave him "o" (what is the report system for Jason ;-), I completely lost his signal. I have a nasty carrier right in the middle of the reception window that might be the reason ... Dave, I will give it another try later and first try to receive your 20.00 UTC transmission tonight. Best 73, we will keep trying! Alberto: thanks for the software in general and especially for the adjustable tones. It works fine with my EX-1001 SSB Exciter from Hagenuk. Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27980 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 18:48:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 18:48:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 8211 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 18:48:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 18:48:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Qv1e-0007jR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:43:06 +0000 Received: from mail4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.211]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Qv1d-0007jK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:43:05 +0000 Received: from modem-93.elrohir.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.187.93] helo=g3aqc) by mail4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 16Qv0r-00087X-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:42:17 +0000 Message-ID: <001501c19ebd$9002e180$05e9fea9@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: UK-NZ Beacon Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:40:54 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
I would like to try some Beacon transmissions from tomorrow (ie in about 22 hours time) on 135,921.5Hz. Time will correspond with UK/NZ sunset/sunrise ie grey line.
I will start at 1600utc and continue until 1800 utc. I will be using 120sec QRSS, 2:1
dash dot ratio, and will send "Q's" only with ident.between. Each Q will take 20mins to send and hopefully any path opening will be long enough to get one Q through. Its a long shot I know but worth trying, and I hope someone down there will be able to set up ARGO and try a few captures.
T/A
Since I now have the TX set up for 136, I will also have a go at T/A tonight around 
2200/2300, DFCW30. I will listen on 7030 in case anyone wants to try a cross band QSO.  73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22601 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 18:46:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 18:46:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 11322 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 18:46:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 18:46:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Qv1d-0007jL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:43:05 +0000 Received: from mail4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.211]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Qv1b-0007jF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:43:04 +0000 Received: from modem-93.elrohir.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.187.93] helo=g3aqc) by mail4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 16Qv0p-00087X-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:42:15 +0000 Message-ID: <001401c19ebd$8f104420$05e9fea9@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. Vote for Jason final format Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:54:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Alberto,
I would prefer the narrow option.  73s Laurie. 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18876 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 18:32:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 18:32:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11916 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 18:32:39 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 18:32:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Qul7-0007hD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:26:01 +0000 Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.103]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Qul6-0007h8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:26:00 +0000 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.25.) id l.27.21449dbb (3843) for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:24:38 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <27.21449dbb.29771f66@aol.com> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:24:38 EST Subject: Re: LF: Re: G3YXM's Jason test sigs To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi Alberto and group,

Many thanks for the adjustable center frequency, especially for TX !

I think it's important to use a quite high audio frequency, so that all harmonics of the AF signal are outside the transmitters passband.
Also great to have a slow version now. I tried V0.9 on a 266MHz P2 and could not decode the signal, so will try to download V0.91 from Dave's site. Indeed, QSL.NET seems to have a hard time, it took 5 attempts to get Jason V0.9 (too busy distributing Jason ? :-)

I will try to be QRV at the weekend. Time for a 2-way QSO ?

Greetings, and hope to hear / see / read   you later

73  Wolf DL4YHF. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8894 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 17:56:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 17:56:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 13669 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 17:56:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 17:56:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Qu9o-0007bS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:47:28 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Qu9n-0007bN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:47:27 +0000 Received: from host217-35-30-77.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.30.77] helo=dellboy) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16Qu90-0001r4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:46:38 +0000 Message-ID: <000401c19eb5$c4d13a40$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <005601c19e0f$02d50ee0$1700a8c0@home> <3C45AD94.A920B8FC@usa.net> <001a01c19eaf$d828c320$1700a8c0@home> Subject: Re: LF: Jason test Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:36:23 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Additional note: Jason 0.91 works fine on my P100 laptop, it's a really crappy Compaq so any decent machine should be OK. It doesn't seem an awful lot slower either. Well. done Alberto. Dave > > Yes I will transmit for one hour from 2000 utc on 137.520 using Jason 0.91 > in "Slow" mode. > I have put the software on my web-site in case QSL.net is too busy. > http://www.wireless.org.uk/jason.htm > > 73. > Dave > G3YXM. > > > > > thanks for your offer. I am sure that, if this evening you will > > transmit on the same frequency and time of yesterday evening, > > I won't be the only one trying to receive you, testing also the > > low speed version just uploaded. TNX. > > > > 73 Alberto I2PHD > > > > > > > > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2242 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 17:34:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 17:34:23 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8477 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 17:34:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 17:34:03 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QtoV-0007Yf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:25:27 +0000 Received: from d06lmsgate-4.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QtoU-0007Ya-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:25:26 +0000 Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by d06lmsgate-4.uk.ibm.COM (1.0.0) with ESMTP id RAA121290 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:11:13 GMT Received: from usa.net (ss5.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.70]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0GHLrF119114 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:21:56 GMT Message-ID: <3C45B71C.6A4B7E09@usa.net> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 18:23:40 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Jason test References: <005601c19e0f$02d50ee0$1700a8c0@home> <3C45AD94.A920B8FC@usa.net> <001a01c19eaf$d828c320$1700a8c0@home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave Pick wrote: > Alberto and all. > > Yes I will transmit for one hour from 2000 utc on 137.520 using Jason 0.91 > in "Slow" mode. > I have put the software on my web-site in case QSL.net is too busy. > http://www.wireless.org.uk/jason.htm > Dave, thanks, also for mirroring the software. Qsl.net seems to be rather slow these days. When you transmit, the Normal and Slow settings are perfectly equivalent. The speed setting affects only the Rx side, as it reduces the number of FFTs done each second. It would be interesting to receive at the same time the same transmission, with two PCs, one set to Normal, and the other set to Slow, to see if the decoding accuracy worsens with the Slow setting... 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27678 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 17:09:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 17:09:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 8055 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 17:09:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 17:09:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QtUm-0007VG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:05:04 +0000 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QtUl-0007VB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:05:03 +0000 Received: from host217-35-30-77.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.30.77] helo=dellboy) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16QtTz-0001sN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:04:15 +0000 Message-ID: <001a01c19eaf$d828c320$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <005601c19e0f$02d50ee0$1700a8c0@home> <3C45AD94.A920B8FC@usa.net> Subject: Re: LF: Jason test Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:04:22 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alberto and all. Yes I will transmit for one hour from 2000 utc on 137.520 using Jason 0.91 in "Slow" mode. I have put the software on my web-site in case QSL.net is too busy. http://www.wireless.org.uk/jason.htm 73. Dave G3YXM. > > thanks for your offer. I am sure that, if this evening you will > transmit on the same frequency and time of yesterday evening, > I won't be the only one trying to receive you, testing also the > low speed version just uploaded. TNX. > > 73 Alberto I2PHD > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4401 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 16:48:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 16:48:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22197 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 16:48:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 16:48:03 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QtB4-0007Px-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:44:42 +0000 Received: from d06lmsgate-4.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QtB3-0007Pp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:44:41 +0000 Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by d06lmsgate-4.uk.ibm.COM (1.0.0) with ESMTP id QAA143788 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:30:32 GMT Received: from usa.net (ss5.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.70]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0GGfEF44556 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:41:15 GMT Message-ID: <3C45AD94.A920B8FC@usa.net> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:43:00 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Jason test References: <005601c19e0f$02d50ee0$1700a8c0@home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave Pick wrote: > [...]More tests if anyone wants them. Hello Dave, thanks for your offer. I am sure that, if this evening you will transmit on the same frequency and time of yesterday evening, I won't be the only one trying to receive you, testing also the low speed version just uploaded. TNX. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28627 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 16:46:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 16:46:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 5367 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 16:46:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 16:46:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Qt64-0007P1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:39:32 +0000 Received: from ns2.etecsa.net ([206.49.67.1] helo=mxb.etecsa.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Qt62-0007Ow-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:39:30 +0000 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by mxb.etecsa.net (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) id LAA07069 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 11:38:03 -0500 (EST) Received: from ppp-inforhc.pppn.etecsa.cu(10.10.0.2), claiming to be "user" via SMTP by opcional, id smtpdAAA09j6Lz; Wed Jan 16 11:37:54 2002 Message-ID: <00e501c19ea3$ce657ce0$02000a0a@user> From: "Prof. Arnaldo Coro Antich" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020116102434.00a7a7f8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <3C458059.44CF7601@usa.net> Subject: LF: Re: Re: G3YXM's Jason test sigs Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:10:49 -0400 Organization: ICRT Radio Habana Cuba MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mxb.etecsa.net id LAA07069 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Just downloaded JASON, but my machine does not seem to be able to handle it... It is Pentium II running at 366 mHz Celeron CPU with 128 megs of RAM Any ideas ? After going trough the conceptual approach or Señor Alberto 's JASON program, I want to congratulate him for such a wonderfully well thought approach to weak signal work !!! As a VHF enthusiast I foresee very interesting applications for JASON in that area too ... 73 and DX Arnie Coro CO2KK Host of Dxers Unlimited Radio Havana Cuba's radio hobby program ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alberto di Bene" To: Sent: miércoles, 16 de enero de 2002 9:30 Subject: LF: Re: G3YXM's Jason test sigs > James Moritz wrote: > > > If the centre frequency is > > F, and the spacing between tones is f, the possible tone frequencies are F > > +/- (n-0.5)*f where n is an integer from 1...16. Therefore there are 32 > > possible equally-spaced tone frequencies from F-15.5f to F+15.5f. Is this > > correct? > > > > Hi Jim and the group, > > yes, correct, that's how the information is encoded in Jason. > There is another possible format, which has pros and cons. > It has been also suggested by Stewart Nelson. I had initially, > when designing Jason, dismissed it, but now I am here asking > your collective opinion. > > Presently only the absolute value of the frequency delta is used > to encode the information. If I use also the sign, I have this results : > > -Pros The band occupied is nearly halved, from 32 slots, it goes > down to 17 slots. > > -Cons The system is no more sideband independent. Now it is > immaterial whether the RX is set to LSB or USB. > This would not be any more the case with the alternate scheme. > > So, what would all you judge more important, sideband independence, > or bandwidth used ? Your vote will decide the final format for Jason. > > 73 Alberto I2PHD > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9798 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 16:10:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 16:10:32 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 14505 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 16:10:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 16:10:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QsXv-0007J9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:04:15 +0000 Received: from d06lmsgate-4.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QsXt-0007J1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:04:13 +0000 Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by d06lmsgate-4.uk.ibm.COM (1.0.0) with ESMTP id PAA37092 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:49:40 GMT Received: from usa.net (ss01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.89]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0GG07F172192 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:00:12 GMT Message-ID: <3C45A3F2.A575633F@usa.net> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 17:01:54 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: G3YXM's Jason test sigs References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020116102434.00a7a7f8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <5.1.0.14.0.20020116135224.00af0e08@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz wrote: > you would need 17 tones - then in the example it would be 13+16 mod 17 = > 12; perhaps this is something like what Stuart is suggesting? > Dear Jim and the group, exactly, with 17 tones, taking into account the sign as indicator of 'wraparound', it is possible to encode the 16 deltas, with the modulo operator. This is the alternate scheme. It seems that the consensus is on reducing the bandwidth. So please Johan, wait a little before modifying the PIC code that drives the DDS... Thanks for your input 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21584 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 15:44:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 15:44:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9767 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 15:44:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 15:44:35 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QsAk-0007CK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:40:18 +0000 Received: from d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QsAj-0007Bs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:40:17 +0000 Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.COM (1.0.0) with ESMTP id PAA80734 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:16:39 GMT Received: from usa.net (ss01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.89]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0GFaLF50398 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:36:21 GMT Message-ID: <3C459E5F.23959E4C@usa.net> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:38:07 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Jason V0.91 released References: <200201160949_MC3-EE22-1A6B@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Group I have just uploaded the version 0.91 of Jason. The mods are : - The Options menu now allows to set the speed to Normal or Slow (for PCs in the 200 MHz class) - The center frequencies both for reception and transmission (when using the audio output) are now user-selectable. The problem of excessive blooming of the waterfall trace is being investigated. Anyway it shouldn't affect the decoding, as the AGC applied to the visual trace is not used elsewhere. Also the problems of occasional double letters, and systematic errors are under scrutiny. Please test it in the Slow setting with a slow PC. Before someone asks, the settings are not remembered. It is one of the touches that will be added to the final version. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17361 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 15:33:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 15:33:26 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24516 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 15:33:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 15:33:24 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Qrux-00078x-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:23:59 +0000 Received: from d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Qruw-00078p-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:23:58 +0000 Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.COM (1.0.0) with ESMTP id PAA11108 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:00:26 GMT Received: from usa.net (ss01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.89]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0GFK3F86058 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:20:05 GMT Message-ID: <3C459A8D.656E5381@usa.net> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:21:49 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Vote for Jason final format References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020116102434.00a7a7f8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <3C458059.44CF7601@usa.net> <002901c19e99$3cb27dc0$1d0b97d4@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Johan Bodin wrote: > To help those who can't switch sideband on their receivers, I would suggest > the addition of an USB/LSB button to Jason. I guess it shouldn't be too difficult to > toggle a minus sign, or something like that, somewhere in the Jason code. > [...] I made a bet against myself that this suggestion would not have taken more than one hour to appear on the reflector... :-) :-) :-) I won... Let's see what the others think. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17287 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 15:33:25 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 15:33:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24463 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 15:33:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 15:33:22 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Qrpu-00077n-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:18:46 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Qrps-00077i-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:18:45 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16Qrp7-0002jZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:17:57 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16Qrp5-00008m-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:17:56 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020116135224.00af0e08@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:13:55 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: Re: G3YXM's Jason test sigs In-reply-to: <3C458059.44CF7601@usa.net> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020116102434.00a7a7f8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Alberto, LF Group At 14:30 16/01/2002 +0100, you wrote: >So, what would all you judge more important, sideband independence, >or bandwidth used ? Your vote will decide the final format for Jason. Provided the software is able to cope with receiving the signal as either USB or LSB (for example. by having a user option to change the sign of the measured frequency differential), I don't think having to select the sideband would be any problem - I think reduced BW would be useful; it would make it easier to avoid QRM like Loran and make the signal slightly easier to generate. Also, from your previous e-mail: >This [eliminating the bit which defines the nibble as 1st or 2nd in the >character] would gain one bit each nibble, increasing the alphabet from 64 >to 256 >symbols. For keyboard-to-keyboard communication, I think 64 symbols >are enough. I was thinking more that this would mean 2 x 3 bits for each character instead of 2 x 4, reducing the number of tones required by 1/2, and so further halving the bandwidth. Or the "spare" bit could be used to include some sort of error correction, perhaps. And, regarding the 16 tone encoding scheme: >Hmmm, suppose I have just sent tone 13. Next, I have to send a delta >of 16 (the deltas range from 1 to 16). 13 + 16 mod 16 = 13, so I would >end up sending the same tone, with a delta of 0. Or maybe I misunderstood >what you said ? That would be no problem for 16 codes - you only need to re-define possible values of delta as 0 to 15 instead of 1 to 16. If it is important that two successive tones never have the same frequency, ie. there can be no delta = 0, you would need 17 tones - then in the example it would be 13+16 mod 17 = 12; perhaps this is something like what Stuart is suggesting? Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28347 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 15:31:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 15:31:32 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21784 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 15:31:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 15:31:35 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QrwB-000796-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:25:15 +0000 Received: from d06lmsgate-4.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QrwB-000791-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:25:15 +0000 Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by d06lmsgate-4.uk.ibm.COM (1.0.0) with ESMTP id PAA116836 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:11:03 GMT Received: from usa.net (ss01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.89]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0GFLcF129462 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:21:38 GMT Message-ID: <3C459AED.ADB809B9@usa.net> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 16:23:25 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: G3YXM's Jason test sigs References: <200201160949_MC3-EE22-1A6B@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: "Holger 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" wrote: > ... if the system would be depending on the sideband, could it be > internally switched from "normal" to "reverse" (I mean at a later version, > not the test version of course)? In this case I believe it would make sense > to save bandwidth and go for this algorithm. Geri, yes, but you have been beaten by Johan Bodin :-):-) 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 767 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 15:06:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 15:06:40 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16325 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 15:06:38 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 15:06:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QrPO-00072U-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:51:22 +0000 Received: from siaag1ab.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QrPN-00072P-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:51:21 +0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id JAA13406 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 09:49:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 09:49:34 -0500 From: "Holger 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Re: G3YXM's Jason test sigs To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200201160949_MC3-EE22-1A6B@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alberto, >So, what would all you judge more important, sideband independence, >or bandwidth used ? Your vote will decide the final format for Jason. ... if the system would be depending on the sideband, could it be internally switched from "normal" to "reverse" (I mean at a later version, not the test version of course)? In this case I believe it would make sense to save bandwidth and go for this algorithm. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10265 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 14:28:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 14:28:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 14962 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 14:28:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 14:28:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Qqxs-0006xo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:22:56 +0000 Received: from fep04.swip.net ([130.244.199.132] helo=fep04-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Qqxr-0006xj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:22:55 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.11.29]) by fep04-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020116142204.KJTJ21176.fep04-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:22:04 +0100 Message-ID: <002901c19e99$3cb27dc0$1d0b97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020116102434.00a7a7f8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <3C458059.44CF7601@usa.net> Subject: LF: Vote for Jason final format Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 15:22:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alberto I2PHD wrote: >Your vote will decide the final format for Jason. I vote for the narrow 17 slot format! To help those who can't switch sideband on their receivers, I would suggest the addition of an USB/LSB button to Jason. I guess it shouldn't be too difficult to toggle a minus sign, or something like that, somewhere in the Jason code. 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23153 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 13:38:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 13:38:51 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23238 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 13:38:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 13:38:47 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QqAR-0006ow-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:31:51 +0000 Received: from d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QqAQ-0006on-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:31:50 +0000 Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.COM (1.0.0) with ESMTP id NAA45826 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:08:27 GMT Received: from usa.net (ss01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.89]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0GDSFF268024 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 13:28:18 GMT Message-ID: <3C458059.44CF7601@usa.net> Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 14:30:02 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: G3YXM's Jason test sigs References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020116102434.00a7a7f8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz wrote: > If the centre frequency is > F, and the spacing between tones is f, the possible tone frequencies are F > +/- (n-0.5)*f where n is an integer from 1...16. Therefore there are 32 > possible equally-spaced tone frequencies from F-15.5f to F+15.5f. Is this > correct? > Hi Jim and the group, yes, correct, that's how the information is encoded in Jason. There is another possible format, which has pros and cons. It has been also suggested by Stewart Nelson. I had initially, when designing Jason, dismissed it, but now I am here asking your collective opinion. Presently only the absolute value of the frequency delta is used to encode the information. If I use also the sign, I have this results : -Pros The band occupied is nearly halved, from 32 slots, it goes down to 17 slots. -Cons The system is no more sideband independent. Now it is immaterial whether the RX is set to LSB or USB. This would not be any more the case with the alternate scheme. So, what would all you judge more important, sideband independence, or bandwidth used ? Your vote will decide the final format for Jason. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29261 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 12:44:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 12:44:10 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 2830 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 12:44:09 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 12:44:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QpJA-0006gB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 12:36:48 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QpIU-0006g6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 12:36:08 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16QpHg-0006BU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 12:35:16 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16QpHf-0003J5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 12:35:15 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020116102434.00a7a7f8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 12:33:57 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: G3YXM's Jason test sigs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060500090606010607010709" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060500090606010607010709 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear LF Group, Was able to copy G3YXM's test signal last night - somewhat surprisingly using a 300MHz IBM laptop. Copy was perfect, with random letters appearing only when Dave was not transmitting - see attachment. Dave's signal was S9+ even at the reduced power level, and I found I had to reduce both the RX gain and the sound card input level control until the signal did not move the sig level bar graph to get good copy - even so, the waterfall display showed a very wide, overloaded looking trace - but it worked fine just the same, so a good start. Reading Alberto's e-mail and looking at the spectrogram of the Jason signal last night, I had not correctly understood the Jason encoding scheme when I wrote before. Now I think I have it right - Each character is encoded as two 4-bit nibbles, each of which is transmitted as one of 16 difference frequencies between 2 successive tones. If the current tone is below the centre frequency of the signal, the frequency differential is added to the current tone frequency to get the next tone frequency. If the current tone is above the centre frequency, the frequency differential is subtracted from the current tone frequency. So the tone frequency will oscillate in an irregular way around the centre frequency with the magnitude of each frequency shift representing one 4-bit nibble. If the centre frequency is F, and the spacing between tones is f, the possible tone frequencies are F +/- (n-0.5)*f where n is an integer from 1...16. Therefore there are 32 possible equally-spaced tone frequencies from F-15.5f to F+15.5f. Is this correct? 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vthyewQVJUFC9gNrjCzfQxV21JIo002UVC9Qj8z8HowYMRXa1ViTz4egwo+VdCtVUkpNHnbk H9sI/hbwwN9CtVbUFCjzjYW3qEf5MGDF39yZxDCiRHQ3V0L1ijTb2A3qEfu+DESOhOqJCgKP O7QAN6hH+TBgxfEXeoYESr6GqutL4NHmezG6rVBjb3tsfI6FqqltaBR5tl2v9cI/df0enBgw 393jIwobpnRRXKTMYlx6LJU6wVKb4k9gpuQRuBa/4xjT5QyBWU5iZlVuImPEhrS8lKnUrLyx ujToVsEqAUSfACxBJBgxzrrqrc1MqSR//9k= --------------060500090606010607010709-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9236 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 10:24:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 10:24:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 16892 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 10:24:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 10:24:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Qn8q-0006LC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:18:00 +0000 Received: from mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.132]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Qn8o-0006L7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 10:17:58 +0000 Received: from mcalevey ([210.54.196.148]) by mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20020116101635.DWWU25882.mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@mcalevey> for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 23:16:35 +1300 Message-ID: <000201c19e77$92df7760$94c436d2@mcalevey> From: "mcalevey" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020115133352.00a65df8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <3C44631A.942D751C@usa.net> Subject: Re: LF: Introducing Jason Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 23:21:00 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alberto I have been enjoying trying Jason here between two PC's. A slow PC sounds the tones over its speakers. A 500 MHz machine two rooms away picks up the tones via microphone. Results have been quite good although QRSS would have been O copy. A couple of observations: The errors tend to be consistent. When an E is not decoded correctly a G is printed instead. Similarly a missed A always becomes a Q. Is there AGC on the signal? It seems to take a long time time to recover from strong signals. Many thanks for another excellent easy to use programme Alberto. I am looking forward to trying it on the air. Mike ZL4OL From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21011 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 02:44:41 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 02:44:41 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22355 invoked from network); 16 Jan 2002 02:44:39 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jan 2002 02:44:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Qg06-0005RN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 02:40:30 +0000 Received: from tomts17.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.71] helo=tomts17-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Qg05-0005RI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 02:40:29 +0000 Received: from server1.sympatico.ca ([216.209.138.115]) by tomts17-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020116023931.BPKD16289.tomts17-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1.sympatico.ca>; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:39:31 -0500 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020115213515.00acc070@POP2.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1aemm59@POP2.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:39:10 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Larry Kayser" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: DDS design In-reply-to: <010e01c19e10$e6554da0$bd0997d4@oemcomputer> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > > The DDS is totally down to Johan's wisdom while my contribution was > limited > > to a low pass filter and the PCB design. > >What!? As far as I remember you did most of the hardware design and, what's >more important, you made kits and PCBs available to the LF community. >I only read the AD9832 data sheet and wrote a few lines of pic code! This is wonderful...... Where else but on LF could you find to guys who make contributions trying to pass the Thanks to the other guy! I am grateful to both of you - bet a lot of other people are as well.... Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20420 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 22:38:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 22:38:39 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28936 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 22:38:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 22:38:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QcAa-0004ug-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:35:04 +0000 Received: from europa.your-site.com ([140.186.45.14]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QcAX-0004ub-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:35:04 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.180.100]) by europa.your-site.com ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:34:02 -0500 Message-ID: <3C44AE52.3E24A143@att.net> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:33:54 +0000 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 136 References: <3C445C40.788FC6F4@ns.sympatico.ca> <3C449DFF.DCBEBB14@netscapeonline.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Lots of QRN here in North Carolina the past few nights. Looks a lot better tonight. I am watching 135.921 to 135.924 now. Sun is just now setting here at 2230 UTC. I'll start posting screen shots at: http://www.gostanly.com/w4dex/135kHz.jpg Will continue until about 0500 UTC. Dex gii3kev wrote: > > john currie wrote: > > > Hi all saw nil last night. 73 de John VE1ZJ > > Hi John and the USA monitors. What time do you start to monitor. Have > heard a few transmitting early around 2130 - 2400 utc. I do not usually > stay up beyond these times, so not sure if anybody is > still going later than this at the present time. F6BWO is active at > these times, and a couple of others that I did not wait to identify. > What time do you all normally start to listen. > DE Mal G3KEV/IO94SH From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15693 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 22:09:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 22:09:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 20795 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 22:09:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 22:09:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QbjN-0004qs-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:06:57 +0000 Received: from fep03.swip.net ([130.244.199.131] helo=fep03-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QbjM-0004qm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:06:57 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.9.189]) by fep03-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020115220609.HLEF2933.fep03-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 23:06:09 +0100 Message-ID: <010e01c19e10$e6554da0$bd0997d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: Re: DDS design Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 23:06:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: David G0MRF wrote: > The DDS is totally down to Johan's wisdom while my contribution was limited > to a low pass filter and the PCB design. What!? As far as I remember you did most of the hardware design and, what's more important, you made kits and PCBs available to the LF community. I only read the AD9832 data sheet and wrote a few lines of pic code! 73 Johan From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1855 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 21:57:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 21:57:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 24669 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 21:57:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 21:57:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QbX9-0004ng-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:54:19 +0000 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QbX8-0004nb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:54:18 +0000 Received: from host217-35-30-77.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.30.77] helo=dellboy) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16QbWM-0001iR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:53:30 +0000 Message-ID: <005601c19e0f$02d50ee0$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Jason test Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:53:04 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Thanks to all who sent reports by e-mail or telephone.
It seems you have a winner here Alberto!
I was especially pleased you managed to copy it so well.
 
TX power was about 150W output. Jason was generated by Soundblaster Pro in 200MHz pentium PC, fed into IC735 modified to produce RF on 136.72 USB.
 
More tests if anyone wants them.
 
I would especially like to try a QSO as soon as someone else has a TX set up.
 
73.
Dave.
G3YXM.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25317 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 21:37:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 21:37:14 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3256 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 21:37:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 21:37:13 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QbBv-0004jL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:32:23 +0000 Received: from e21.nc.us.ibm.com ([32.97.136.227]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QbBm-0004jD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:32:15 +0000 Received: from southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.208]) by e21.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA56248 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:27:01 -0600 Received: from usa.net (ss1.pok.socks.ibm.com [9.14.3.53]) by southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0FLV6D97220 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:31:07 -0500 Message-ID: <3C44A02E.8C8911FE@usa.net> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:33:34 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: G3YXM went on ! References: <200201151538_MC3-EDF8-E7F4@compuserve.com> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------020508010509010205040100" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020508010509010205040100 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Well, when I thought the transmission was over, and
I was about to switch off the Rx, I checked again,
and, sure, Dave was still transmitting !

Strong QSB which at times wiped off your signal,
but I was able to copy this :

When in the message there were errors, in the waterfall
your signal was totally absent.

Well, I am satisfied of this first true test on the air !
Now, before going to bed, I will prepare the version
with the option to slow it down. Tomorrow I will put it
on the Web site.

Good night to all, and thanks especially to Dave for
his time and cooperation !

73  Alberto  I2PHD
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kunouwWRJurzXWPC3inw94o1HxD4HexlXUgHvNPuhgNIMkMp46kt1YcseuePRqM1lTqOm9Ov cbVzxDS/hx4pbwX40t7nTrKyvdZeCa3s4ZVCKY5WkKLglVGCAozjpkir3gzS/Gui6rpCXXw+ 8PxW9vsglv4RCt0qbdhkLiQktgktgfNyOM17DmjNdEsZOSaklr69rdyeVHjfhv4QXC+C76x1 OGCy1+DUWnsNRiZWOFVAh3DnYWDHBwRnOAaujwj4j8Q+P/DeueJ9FspLe3s5LS/jZ45ULKJd kmw8FWLqQBkgg5AwK9Xozmk8ZUbbfW/yv2Hyo8s/4Q/xD4c+IXiDXvC2laYltPpirYxEhIfM DQ7oyilSGIjcg8LlhkjJrO8C6Z8RfD3jC/v7zw1a/ZNavFl1BhdR5hBZyWTEhOAZCcEEkLjI 617Lmko+tycXFpO6t16fMOVGB42g1O50ONdL0mz1WRLmN5bS5kMZeMHny3yNr9ME8Y3cHoej 3VHRXM3eKj2GSbvf/wCtRu7VHmjNTYCTdRu/Ko80UWAk3ZI5o3d81HnNLmiwD936UbqjoosB Juo3e/8A9ao6M0WAk3dqN1R5ozRYCTd+VG7JHNR0ZzRYCTd3zRu/SmZpKLASbqN1R0UWAfvP bH4mim5NFFgP/9k= --------------020508010509010205040100-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2983 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 21:27:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 21:27:13 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8737 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 21:27:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 21:27:16 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Qb5I-0004hT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:25:32 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Qb5I-0004hO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:25:32 +0000 Received: from ldsas09-73-124-174.cw-visp.com ([212.137.124.174] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16Qatn-0007SI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:13:39 +0000 Message-ID: <3C449DFF.DCBEBB14@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:24:15 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 136 References: <3C445C40.788FC6F4@ns.sympatico.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: john currie wrote: > Hi all saw nil last night. 73 de John VE1ZJ Hi John and the USA monitors. What time do you start to monitor. Have heard a few transmitting early around 2130 - 2400 utc. I do not usually stay up beyond these times, so not sure if anybody is still going later than this at the present time. F6BWO is active at these times, and a couple of others that I did not wait to identify. What time do you all normally start to listen. DE Mal G3KEV/IO94SH From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6198 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 21:12:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 21:12:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 28170 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 21:12:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 21:12:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QakH-0004ZO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:03:49 +0000 Received: from fep01.swip.net ([130.244.199.129] helo=fep01-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QakG-0004ZJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:03:49 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.9.189]) by fep01-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020115210300.HHOR1315.fep01-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:03:00 +0100 Message-ID: <002e01c19e08$13dc0d80$bd0997d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB994D@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> Subject: LF: Re: An appeal to Windoze programmers Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:43:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Yes, a Windoze vector scope would be a great tool/toy! Andy G4JNT wrote: > Some sort of calibration routine would be needed for use, either feeding in > a tone of exact known frequency and adjusting the NCO for a stationary > trace. The soundcard clocks can be quite unstable. Therefore I would suggest a second mode where both left and right inputs are used. The received signal is fed into one of the channels and a reference frequency is fed into the other. If the reference is a clean sine wave, a Hilbert transformer can be used to split it into the quadrature L.O. needed for the half-complex input mixer (real in - I/Q out). Another approach could be to keep the NCO and use a software PLL to lock the NCO "software clock" to the reference frequency. The reference doesn't have to be a pure sine wave in this case, I think. > One can play endlessly with such a tool ! I couldn't agree more! 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2970 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 21:11:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 21:11:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 13196 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 21:11:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 21:11:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QakK-0004ZV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:03:52 +0000 Received: from fep01.swip.net ([130.244.199.129] helo=fep01-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QakJ-0004ZQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:03:52 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.9.189]) by fep01-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020115210304.HHPB1315.fep01-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:03:04 +0100 Message-ID: <002f01c19e08$1636c660$bd0997d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C4301BD.878E49BF@usa.net> <006b01c19d34$ad33d500$979a17d2@steve> <001801c19d4c$78f9d9c0$1700a8c0@home> <3C43FE2C.49EE902A@usa.net> <000401c19db2$0de78220$1700a8c0@home> <3.0.1.16.20020115135933.10e72744@pb623250.kuleuven.be> Subject: LF: Jason TX with G0MRF DDS VFO Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 22:02:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello I am planning to add Jason TX capability to the G0MRF DDS VFO. The new program will not fit in the PIC16F84. There is a slight chance that it can be squeezed in if the DFCW option is removed. I will probably write the new program for a PIC16F628 anyway. This chip is pin compatible and has twice as much program memory. The smallest DFCW shift in the current version is 0.25Hz which seems quite wide by todays standards. Is there anybody that actually uses the DFCW function in this VFO? I would like to use pin 3 (RA4) and perhaps also pin 4 (RA5) on the PIC for Jason. Pin 3 is currently connected to the unused FSEL pin on the DDS chip and has a pull-up resistor to +5V. Pin 4 is currently connected directly to +5V. * It would be interesting to know if it is easy to disconnect these pins by cutting the tracks? (I don't have any G0MRF board to look at myself). Life will be easier for me if you can live without DFCW. The already existing DFCW switch can be used for Jason on/off and the DFCW keying input can be used as serial input. Any comments? 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28959 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 21:09:31 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 21:09:31 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23560 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 21:09:27 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 21:09:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QaiR-0004Yz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:01:55 +0000 Received: from dargolad.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.27]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QaiQ-0004Yu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:01:54 +0000 Received: from srv17slx.esoterica.pt (srv17slx.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.47]) by dargolad.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g0FL16i16458 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:01:06 GMT Received: from slave-6 (por410.esoterica.pt [195.22.18.111]) by srv17slx.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g0FL14g24010 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:01:04 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020115210017.009a1c60@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:00:17 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: jason In-reply-to: <16QXp4-0aPsZsC@fwd10.sul.t-online.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Alberto, Thank you and many congratulations again. I have also transmitted audio across the shack from computer to computer with 136 background noise from the loudspeaker of a receiver. May I add to Bernt's appeal for a more flexible offset frequency when you are able. I have offsets of 1400Hz and 1850Hz to add to the list! 73, Brian At 17:56 15/01/2002 GMT, you wrote: >Hi Alberto, >put two PCs in different rooms and tried jason with great success. During the transmit I mixed some noise >from the LF-Receiver, which was set to 136 kHz. There were a lot of strange tones. Nothing of this was seen on the waterfall as a distortion. So thank you for this wonderful software. May I wish to get a variable center of the tone-window by the next version? my RX outputs 1kHz, another 2000Hz!Maybe you can install an offsetmode. >BTW the lowspeed-PC(166MHz) was able to send, but not to decode. >73 Bernd, DF8ZR > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16281 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 20:53:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 20:53:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 14678 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 20:53:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 20:53:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QaUd-0004Ts-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 20:47:39 +0000 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QaUc-0004Tn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 20:47:38 +0000 Received: from steve (ppp239.dyn154.pacific.net.au [210.23.154.239]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA15059 for ; Wed, 16 Jan 2002 07:46:46 +1100 Message-ID: <029401c19e05$be58cbc0$ef9a17d2@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C434197.84FEF73B@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: First Date: Wed, 16 Jan 2002 07:46:27 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G'day petite mal, > > Perhaps we should have stayed up later some years ago to become an > obsolete First. > That's what we have all been trying to get across to you for years you silly old duffer :-) Blimey, you must have had your head stuck so far in your own AR88 that you didn't hear. Anyway, despite your past habit of harassing others who are working in your best interests, I am sure that if you blow us all a BIG KEV kiss, then all will be forgiven. Just try and not let yourself fall so far behind again. Try to keep an open mind and keep up the medication (I recently stopped taking my asthma medication and nearly ended up in hospital so I know how important it is). Happy New Year !!!! (2001) 73s Steve VK2ZTO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10328 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 20:52:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 20:52:15 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 25091 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 20:51:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 20:51:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QaNg-0004TE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 20:40:28 +0000 Received: from siaag1ae.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.7]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QaNf-0004Sm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 20:40:27 +0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id PAA05502 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:39:04 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:38:34 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Jason is absolutely amazing! To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200201151538_MC3-EDF8-E7F4@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------080402050007070209040900" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080402050007070209040900 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Alberto, hello Dave, hello group, just at the moment I write this message I can perfectly copy Dave's signal. Starting at 20.00 UTC I had adjusted my receiving equipment, could hear Dave and had to turn everything down so that the signal was not detectable by ear at all! Just saw the tone-signals in the waterfall window. First I thought it would not work but then I was able to clearly read the message: -T!!!SSAGE FROM G3YXMGOOD EVENING FROM G3YXM TEST OF JASON DE G3YXM on the screen (see attachment, taken in between). Alberto: that thing works great! I am using a Pentium III with 500 MHz. Looking forward to be able to transmit myself! Best 73 and mni txn! Geri, DK8KW (W1KW), in JO52BH, 826 km away from Dave ... --------------080402050007070209040900 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="g3axm-jason.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="g3axm-jason.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAFA3PEY8MlBGQUZaVVBfeMiCeG5uePWvuZHI//// ////////////////////////////////////////////////2wBDAVVaWnhpeOuCguv///// ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////wAAR CACEAkYDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA AgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkK FhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWG h4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl 5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEAAwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREA AgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSExBhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYk NOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElKU1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOE 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/Jp9FIBaKSigBaKSigBaKSigBaKSigBaKSigCKb/AFqfQ/0opJv9an0P9KKAK7/8fK/7w/nV 6qL/APHyv+8P51doAWikopgLRSUUALRSUUALRSUUALRSUUALRSUUALRSUUALRSUUALRSUUAL RSUUALRSUUALRSUUALRSUUALRSUUALRSUUALRSUUALRSUUALRSUUALRSUUALRSUUALRSUUAL RSUUALRSUUALRSUUALRSUUALRSUUALRSUUALRSUUALRSUUALRSUUALRSUUALRSUUALRSUUAL RSUUALRSUUARS/61Pof6UUS/61Pof6UUgK7/APHyv+8Ku1Sf/j5X/eFXKaAWikooAWikooAW ikooAWikooAWikooAWikooAWikooAWikooAWikooAWikooAWikooAWikooAWikooAWikooAW ikooAWikooAWikooAWikooAWikooAWikooAWikooAWikooAWikooAWikooAWikooAWikooAW ikooAWikooAWikooAWikooAWikooAWikooAWikooAWikooAWikooAjl/1qfQ/wBKKST/AFqf Q/0opAQSf8fC/wC8KuUUU0AUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAU UUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFF ABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFAEUn+tT6 H+lFFFID/9k= --------------080402050007070209040900-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10787 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 20:47:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 20:47:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 17632 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 20:47:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 20:47:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QaJE-0004SZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 20:35:52 +0000 Received: from cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.171]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QaJC-0004SU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 20:35:51 +0000 Received: from modem-90.dwalin.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.163.90] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 16QaIQ-00070G-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 20:35:02 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01c19e04$250ab100$05e9fea9@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. JASON Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 20:34:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit

Jason decoded beautifully here, test message from G3YXMM good evening Dave and thanks to you and of course Alberto. 73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28842 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 20:46:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 20:46:54 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16182 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 20:46:31 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 20:46:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QaBe-0004RV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 20:28:02 +0000 Received: from e21.nc.us.ibm.com ([32.97.136.227]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QaBU-0004RQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 20:27:54 +0000 Received: from southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.208]) by e21.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA66424 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:22:35 -0600 Received: from usa.net (ss1.pok.socks.ibm.com [9.14.3.53]) by southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0FKQcD292626 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:26:39 -0500 Message-ID: <3C449112.EDBDA2C9@usa.net> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 21:29:06 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: G3YXM received in Italy with Jason Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------050700020505070804030801" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050700020505070804030801 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit  
Hi Dave and the group,

  very good reception of your transmission in Italy :


 
Your signal was rather weak here, and I had some QRN, which increased suddenly
at 20:20 UTC
After some minutes the screen was this :

Thanks for your time and patience Dave !

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from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 18:18:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 3886 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 18:18:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 18:18:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QXuG-00049l-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 18:01:56 +0000 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QXuF-00049f-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 18:01:55 +0000 Received: from host217-35-30-77.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.30.77] helo=dellboy) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16QXtS-0005T1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 18:01:06 +0000 Message-ID: <001a01c19dee$913a9f40$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C4301BD.878E49BF@usa.net> <006b01c19d34$ad33d500$979a17d2@steve> <001801c19d4c$78f9d9c0$1700a8c0@home> <3C43FE2C.49EE902A@usa.net> <000401c19db2$0de78220$1700a8c0@home> <16QSu6-2I7oEiC@fwd10.sul.t-online.com> <002901c19dcb$5b8131c0$1700a8c0@home> <16QW2h-1865yqC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> <3C445C66.C8E66C7@usa.net> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Introducing Jason - and asking for cooperation Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 18:00:49 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Yes, centre frequency should correspond to 137.520 but as I said earlier the IC735 does drift slowly so may be a few Hz out. It was exactly right at 1500. Dave G3YXM > Dave, I think that your transmission will be such that 137.520 kHz > corrsponds to a note of 800 Hz, i.e. your transmitted range > will be 137516.089 <-> 137523.911 Hz. > Can you confirm ? TNX: From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1403 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 18:05:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 18:05:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 14830 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 18:04:58 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 18:04:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QXq8-00047I-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:57:40 +0000 Received: from mailout10.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.21]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QXq7-00047C-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:57:39 +0000 Received: from fwd10.sul.t-online.de by mailout10.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16QXpL-0002CQ-02; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 18:56:51 +0100 Received: from 80.129.119.6 (0607144537-0001@[80.129.119.6]) by fwd10.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16QXp4-0aPsZsC; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 18:56:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: LF: jason From: "bernd grupe" To: "lf-group" X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 4.009 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: 15 Jan 2002 17:56 GMT Message-ID: <16QXp4-0aPsZsC@fwd10.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0607144537-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Alberto, put two PCs in different rooms and tried jason with great success. During the transmit I mixed some noise from the LF-Receiver, which was set to 136 kHz. There were a lot of strange tones. Nothing of this was seen on the waterfall as a distortion. So thank you for this wonderful software. May I wish to get a variable center of the tone-window by the next version? my RX outputs 1kHz, another 2000Hz!Maybe you can install an offsetmode. BTW the lowspeed-PC(166MHz) was able to send, but not to decode. 73 Bernd, DF8ZR From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12021 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 17:56:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 17:56:55 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1297 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 17:56:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 17:56:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QXWo-00045D-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:37:42 +0000 Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.161]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QXWn-000458-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:37:42 +0000 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.103.f16a04c (4256) for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:36:49 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <103.f16a04c.2975c2b0@aol.com> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:36:48 EST Subject: Re: LF: An appeal to Windoze programmers To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi Andy,

a phase meter is already under construction here.
I first planned to make the waterfall phase-sensitive, but didn't manage the phase shift between consecutive FFT calculations yet (it's essential to have the exact frequency, not just the center frequency for every FFT bin).

The long-term stability of the audio card is good enough for phase measurements up to a couple of minutes.
A suitable NCO is already implemented (used for a frequency converter with sideband rejection).

You see, your proposal did not fall on deaf ears, I just didn't put the word out too early.

I will let you and the group know when the program is worth being tested. Now I must try to join Jason and friends ;-) hope it doesn't make my old workhorse catch breath -

Regards,
 Wolf.

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13687 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 17:22:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 17:22:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9662 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 17:22:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 17:22:24 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QXAR-00041N-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:14:35 +0000 Received: from d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QXAQ-00041I-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:14:34 +0000 Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.COM (1.0.0) with ESMTP id QAA23054 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:51:16 GMT Received: from usa.net (ss10.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.2.197]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0FHBCF232960 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:11:12 GMT Message-ID: <3C44631A.942D751C@usa.net> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 18:12:58 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Introducing Jason References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020115133352.00a65df8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz wrote: > Dear Alberto, Steve, Dave, LF group, > > The fastest computer I have is 300MHz, so whether this is adequate remains > to be seen. So I would certainly be interested in some tests from G3YXM > this evening. > Hi Jim and the group, probably 300 MHz will not be enough... at least until the slowed down version is ready. > Perhaps silly questions, but why 2 different tone frequencies for each > symbol? Would it not be possible to have 16 different tones with 1 fixed > "carrier" tone, to generate the same 16 difference frequencies and roughly > halve the BW? If you use a fixed "carrier" tone, you have to alternate it with the tones sent. Don't forget that at any one time, a single tone is transmitted. So, you transmit the carrier, then a tone. Their difference conveys information, but when you retransmit again the carrier, this time no information is sent... > Also, is it necessary to have different symbols for the first > and second 3 bits of each carrier? I realize this removes the ambiguity, > but since a particular tone is either the beginning or the end, there are > only 2 possible decodes, one of which will be garbage - both decodes could > be displayed side by side, and it could be left to the operator to decide > which was correct. > This would gain one bit each nibble, increasing the alphabet from 64 to 256 symbols. For keyboard-to-keyboard communication, I think 64 symbols are enough. > Another thought is a differential encoding scheme - suppose you have 16 > tones and 16 symbols, then the next tone would be the modulo 16 sum of the > current tone frequency and the next symbol. For example, if tone 9 is > currently being transmitted, and the next symbol is 5, the next tone will > be 14. If the next symbol after that is 8, the next tone will be 6 (+16), > and so on. Hmmm, suppose I have just sent tone 13. Next, I have to send a delta of 16 (the deltas range from 1 to 16). 13 + 16 mod 16 = 13, so I would end up sending the same tone, with a delta of 0. Or maybe I misunderstood what you said ? > The receiving software would still be looking for the difference > frequency between successive tones - however, sending would be twice as > fast because only 1 tone would be sent for each symbol, with the previous > tone acting as the reference. I think I'm missing something, but I can't > think what at the moment... > No, sending would be at the same speed. Each tone sent is acting as a reference for the next one, already in the present scheme. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU Thanks for your remarks Jim 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26581 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 16:56:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 16:56:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1567 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 16:56:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 16:56:28 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QWiu-0003uy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:46:08 +0000 Received: from d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QWis-0003ur-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:46:07 +0000 Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.COM (1.0.0) with ESMTP id QAA43910 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:22:42 GMT Received: from usa.net (ss10.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.2.197]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0FGgcF200318 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:42:38 GMT Message-ID: <3C445C66.C8E66C7@usa.net> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:44:22 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Introducing Jason - and asking for cooperation References: <3C4301BD.878E49BF@usa.net> <006b01c19d34$ad33d500$979a17d2@steve> <001801c19d4c$78f9d9c0$1700a8c0@home> <3C43FE2C.49EE902A@usa.net> <000401c19db2$0de78220$1700a8c0@home> <16QSu6-2I7oEiC@fwd10.sul.t-online.com> <002901c19dcb$5b8131c0$1700a8c0@home> <16QW2h-1865yqC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: jannsen wrote: > [...] > Alberto, I guess u can rcv Davids signs without problems.they are vy > strong in jo43sv. > I hope so. This evening will be listening at 137.520 nominal starting from 20:00 UTC. Dave, I think that your transmission will be such that 137.520 kHz corrsponds to a note of 800 Hz, i.e. your transmitted range will be 137516.089 <-> 137523.911 Hz. Can you confirm ? TNX: 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27916 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 16:34:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 16:34:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15487 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 16:34:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 16:34:04 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QWSL-0003r2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:29:01 +0000 Received: from d06lmsgate-4.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QWSJ-0003qn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:29:00 +0000 Received: from d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.147]) by d06lmsgate-4.uk.ibm.COM (1.0.0) with ESMTP id QAA22568 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:14:50 GMT Received: from usa.net (ss10.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.2.197]) by d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0FGR2s59896 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:27:04 GMT Message-ID: <3C445863.4A1B59F5@usa.net> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:27:15 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Jason decode References: <000301c19ddb$131f46a0$a378073e@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alan Melia wrote: > Hi Alberto, It occurs to me that to decode correctly we will need to be > listening on upper-sideband otherwise we will get a frequency translation of > the tones and thus an incorrect decode. Hi Alan, no, the coding scheme relies only on the absolute value of the frequency difference, so it's immaterial whether you are receiving LSB or USB... Could your failure to decode attributed to the same initial problem of Dave, i.e. CPU speed of the PC ? Until I produce a version a bit less CPU-hungry, I reckon you need at least a 500 MHz CPU when receiving. Dave did succeed when he switched from a 200 MHz PC to a 850 MHz one. But probably tomorrow I will have ready a slowed-down version... 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2982 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 16:25:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 16:25:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 24265 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 16:20:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 16:20:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QWHp-0003o6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:18:09 +0000 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QWHo-0003o1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:18:08 +0000 Received: from host217-35-30-77.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.30.77] helo=dellboy) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16QWGw-0001iu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:17:14 +0000 Message-ID: <000401c19de0$0e663920$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000301c19ddb$131f46a0$a378073e@default> Subject: LF: Re: Jason decode Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:16:42 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alan / Alberto. Sounds like the same problem I had, what speed is your processor? I have now had good decode of a locally generated weak signal that would have been "M" copy on 3sec QRSS and was decoding the signal I sent OK. (you will need USB Alan as you suspect). It is difficult to decode strong signals, you will have to reduce the gain to almost zero or add noise until the signal is buried. Alberto. Another thought for when you have a spare moment (!!) could some mode be introduced that would stop the signal bleeding across when very loud? On Argo, the "Lo" gain setting works well for monitoring your own transmission. The PSU stood the test (with the addition of some fans) so I can transmit any time for tests. 73. Dave G3YXM ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 3:40 PM Subject: LF: Jason decode > Hi Alberto, It occurs to me that to decode correctly we will need to be > listening on upper-sideband otherwise we will get a frequency translation of > the tones and thus an incorrect decode. > I am 'enabled' on receive, and just missed a transmission from Dave this > morning due to being on the wrong sideband. By the time I had changed the > rx, he had gone. > A wish for the next version......a "Clear & Home" button for the RX window. > > > (addition before posting) > > Dave G3YXM signal received at 1520 (ish) very strong. It was very difficult > to reduce the level such that a narrow line was seen in the waterfall. When > that was achieved the signal was total inaudible even with the speakers > turned full up. Despite seeing all the signal in the centre slot until 1530z > not a single sensible char was decoded. Very odd. The "thermometer" on the > left was totally off screen for a signal giving a clean line in the > waterfall, and only showed when the audio was producing a 'flared' 5mm wide > trace. > > > Cheers de Alan G3NYK > Alan.Melia@btinternet.com > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6780 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 16:22:22 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 16:22:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11331 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 16:22:05 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 16:22:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QWF2-0003ne-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:15:16 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QWF1-0003nT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:15:15 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16QWEA-0006RG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:14:22 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16QWE9-00006T-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:14:21 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020115133352.00a65df8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:13:09 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: Introducing Jason In-reply-to: <3C4301BD.878E49BF@usa.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Alberto, Steve, Dave, LF group, Thanks for producing this new mode - should be interesting to see what happens. A few thoughts cross my mind: The fastest computer I have is 300MHz, so whether this is adequate remains to be seen. So I would certainly be interested in some tests from G3YXM this evening. As for generating the signal, the interfacing options in "Jason" give plenty of possibilities - Since I don't currently have a suitable SSB exciter or DDS, I am thinking of using a VCXO, or even a VCO in a similar scheme to that I am using for 7FSK; the frequency stability requirement is relaxed, but since there are many more tones, greater tuning range and linearity is required - something like 1% linearity would seem necessary. So a bit of experimentation will be needed. Perhaps silly questions, but why 2 different tone frequencies for each symbol? Would it not be possible to have 16 different tones with 1 fixed "carrier" tone, to generate the same 16 difference frequencies and roughly halve the BW? Also, is it necessary to have different symbols for the first and second 3 bits of each carrier? I realize this removes the ambiguity, but since a particular tone is either the beginning or the end, there are only 2 possible decodes, one of which will be garbage - both decodes could be displayed side by side, and it could be left to the operator to decide which was correct. Another thought is a differential encoding scheme - suppose you have 16 tones and 16 symbols, then the next tone would be the modulo 16 sum of the current tone frequency and the next symbol. For example, if tone 9 is currently being transmitted, and the next symbol is 5, the next tone will be 14. If the next symbol after that is 8, the next tone will be 6 (+16), and so on. The receiving software would still be looking for the difference frequency between successive tones - however, sending would be twice as fast because only 1 tone would be sent for each symbol, with the previous tone acting as the reference. I think I'm missing something, but I can't think what at the moment... Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7553 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 16:11:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 16:11:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1870 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 16:06:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 16:06:42 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QW3b-0003lG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:03:27 +0000 Received: from mailout07.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.83]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QW3a-0003lB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 16:03:26 +0000 Received: from fwd04.sul.t-online.de by mailout07.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16QW2l-0007tN-0U; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:02:35 +0100 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.157.30.223]) by fwd04.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16QW2h-1865yqC; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:02:31 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C4301BD.878E49BF@usa.net> <006b01c19d34$ad33d500$979a17d2@steve> <001801c19d4c$78f9d9c0$1700a8c0@home> <3C43FE2C.49EE902A@usa.net> <000401c19db2$0de78220$1700a8c0@home> <16QSu6-2I7oEiC@fwd10.sul.t-online.com> <002901c19dcb$5b8131c0$1700a8c0@home> Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: Introducing Jason - and asking for cooperation X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 17:02:31 +0100 Message-ID: <16QW2h-1865yqC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave Pick schrieb: > Uwe and Alan. > > I don't know how often you get mail but I will transmit at 1500 for > 30minutes (if my cheapo PSU will stand it!) and then listen. > I will get as close to 137.520 as I can, my old IC735 TX tunes in 10Hz steps > and is a little off frequency, so will be within 5Hz of 520. > > If this proves successful I will transmit in the evening at 2000 for > 30minutes or longer if required, same frequency. > > 73. > Dave G3YXM. > Hi Dave, ur signs somewhat stronger than the LORAN-C lines. my rcv is calibr exactly on 137.520kHz, i.e. 137.520kHz = 800 Hz, the centre of the Jason spec. received the signs: SRH?? (AAGGGGKKKKKKKK if that is not what u transmitted, I have to meassure ur QRG the next turn. pse transmit the centre carrier for a while beforehand. Alberto, I guess u can rcv Davids signs without problems.they are vy strong in jo43sv. regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14173 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 15:45:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 15:45:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 17910 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 15:45:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 15:45:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QVjD-0003gI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:42:23 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QVjD-0003gD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:42:23 +0000 Received: from host62-7-120-163.btinternet.com ([62.7.120.163] helo=default) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16QViP-0004YX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:41:33 +0000 Message-ID: <000301c19ddb$131f46a0$a378073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Jason decode Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 15:40:36 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Alberto, It occurs to me that to decode correctly we will need to be listening on upper-sideband otherwise we will get a frequency translation of the tones and thus an incorrect decode. I am 'enabled' on receive, and just missed a transmission from Dave this morning due to being on the wrong sideband. By the time I had changed the rx, he had gone. A wish for the next version......a "Clear & Home" button for the RX window. (addition before posting) Dave G3YXM signal received at 1520 (ish) very strong. It was very difficult to reduce the level such that a narrow line was seen in the waterfall. When that was achieved the signal was total inaudible even with the speakers turned full up. Despite seeing all the signal in the centre slot until 1530z not a single sensible char was decoded. Very odd. The "thermometer" on the left was totally off screen for a signal giving a clean line in the waterfall, and only showed when the audio was producing a 'flared' 5mm wide trace. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16662 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 15:01:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 15:01:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 11139 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 15:01:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 15:01:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QV3I-0003Yc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:59:04 +0000 Received: from antiochus-fe0.ultra.net ([146.115.8.188]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QV3H-0003YX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:59:03 +0000 Received: from comrex (207-172-255-133.s1149.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.255.133]) by antiochus-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n20340/mtc.v2) with SMTP id JAA28274 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:57:58 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002a01c19dd5$7b1bd120$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C445C40.788FC6F4@ns.sympatico.ca> Subject: LF: Re: 136 Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:00:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Hi all saw nil last night. 73 de John VE1ZJ And the same in Massachusetts. It's been very quiet for the last week, though I've not been looking every evening. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20760 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 14:30:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 14:30:03 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22546 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 14:30:08 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 14:30:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QUXS-0003TS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:26:10 +0000 Received: from smtp1.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.91] helo=mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QUXR-0003TC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:26:09 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.65.69]) by mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 07:41:48 -0400 Message-ID: <3C445C40.788FC6F4@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:43:44 -0500 From: "john currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 136 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all saw nil last night. 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13840 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 14:23:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 14:23:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 2114 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 14:23:24 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 14:23:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QUQa-0003Rn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:19:04 +0000 Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.98]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QUQY-0003Rg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:19:02 +0000 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.a2.1f33060a (4442) for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:17:37 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 09:17:36 EST Subject: LF: Re: DDS design To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 10510 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit In a message dated 1/14/02 9:00:35 PM GMT Standard Time, sm6lkm.jbeab@swipnet.se writes:


I believe that some of you are using the DDS VFO designed by G0MRF?
If there is interest, I will write a new PIC program for it to support Jason.
The DFCW keying pin could be used as input for serial data from the PC.

BTW, Alberto, what is the serial format? 9k6 8N1? (the o'scope is not within reach :-)
The "user interface" is really a piece of art! Wow! I hope it will work as good as it looks.

73
Johan Bodin SM6LKM





Eeeek.   I'll have to add Johan's name and call more liberally to my web site.
The DDS is totally down to Johan's wisdom while my contribution was limited to a low pass filter and the PCB design.

Thanks for a good desgn Johan. -  Credit where credit's due.

73

David  G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9404 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 13:53:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 13:53:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 2983 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 13:52:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 13:52:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QTyL-0003Ly-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:49:53 +0000 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QTyK-0003Lq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:49:52 +0000 Received: from host217-35-30-77.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.30.77] helo=dellboy) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16QTxV-0004lI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:49:01 +0000 Message-ID: <002901c19dcb$5b8131c0$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C4301BD.878E49BF@usa.net> <006b01c19d34$ad33d500$979a17d2@steve> <001801c19d4c$78f9d9c0$1700a8c0@home> <3C43FE2C.49EE902A@usa.net> <000401c19db2$0de78220$1700a8c0@home> <16QSu6-2I7oEiC@fwd10.sul.t-online.com> Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: Introducing Jason - and asking for cooperation Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:48:35 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Uwe and Alan. I don't know how often you get mail but I will transmit at 1500 for 30minutes (if my cheapo PSU will stand it!) and then listen. I will get as close to 137.520 as I can, my old IC735 TX tunes in 10Hz steps and is a little off frequency, so will be within 5Hz of 520. If this proves successful I will transmit in the evening at 2000 for 30minutes or longer if required, same frequency. 73. Dave G3YXM. ----- Original Message ----- From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: Sent: Tuesday, January 15, 2002 12:41 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: Introducing Jason - and asking for cooperation > Dave Pick schrieb: > > Thanks Alberto. > > > > I tried the 850MHz P3 laptop and it works fine. Obviously the 200MHz machine > > is not good enough, I will have to upgrade the shack computer :-( > > I made a very weak signal and listened to it on a live receiver so it was > > against real band noise. A problem seems to be that there will always be a > > Loran line in the window so the system has trouble decoding if the wanted > > signal is weaker than the Loran line. We'll have to see how this works in > > practice. > > Thanks for the tip about the receive window, very useful! > > My shack PC is in 800x600 with no problems . > > I have made a few test transmissions at low power, so if anyone wants to try > > it let me know and I'll send a beacon signal on 137.5. > > Or even a QSO? > > > > 73. > > Dave > > G3YXM. > > Hi Dave and Alberto, > > 1. Alberto tks for the IFK software support.the screen presentation: marvelous! > > 2. 800x600 is ok here. > > 3. Dave, I`m QRV from now until 1700UTC and from abt 2000UTC until .... > 137.5kHz is good, but 137.52kHz would be better bec there are eight strong > LORAN-C lines on .500 +/- 17Hz. on .520 +/- 17Hz only two strong lines. > pse do announce the time u will transmitt. > > regards > Uwe/dj8wx jo43sv > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26275 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 13:43:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 13:43:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 14225 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 13:43:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 13:43:20 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QToX-0003K7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:39:45 +0000 Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.101]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QToW-0003K2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:39:44 +0000 Received: from northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (northrelay01.pok.ibm.com [9.117.200.21]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA445988 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:35:25 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss10.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.2.197]) by northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0FDcNf155636 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:38:24 -0500 Message-ID: <3C4430C2.4722BE7E@usa.net> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:38:10 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Introducing Jason - and asking for cooperation References: <3C4301BD.878E49BF@usa.net> <006b01c19d34$ad33d500$979a17d2@steve> <001801c19d4c$78f9d9c0$1700a8c0@home> <3C43FE2C.49EE902A@usa.net> <000401c19db2$0de78220$1700a8c0@home> <3.0.1.16.20020115135933.10e72744@pb623250.kuleuven.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik Strobbe wrote: > >in this moment I am in my office at work, and don't have here an English > >dictionary, so don't exactly know what a 'pock' is > > Just checked a dictionary, the correct English word is 'smallpox' (vaiolo > in Italian), Just as 'measles' (morbillo) it a kids-disease. > Rik, thanks. I suspected that, but could not be sure... But Jason has been vaccinated, so no fear of such diseases :-) 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9261 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 13:17:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 13:17:00 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15861 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 13:17:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 13:17:06 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QTNj-0003Fh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:12:03 +0000 Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.101]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QTNh-0003FW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:12:01 +0000 Received: from northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (northrelay01.pok.ibm.com [9.117.200.21]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA281964 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:07:40 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss10.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.2.197]) by northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0FDAcf68886 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 08:10:39 -0500 Message-ID: <3C442A41.5ADE23FA@usa.net> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:10:25 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: An appeal to Windoze programmers References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB994D@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Talbot Andrew wrote: > My last posting on this subject fell on deaf ears so here is a direct appeal > :-) > Andy, it looks like you are implicitly addressing Wolf and me, amongst others :-) Personally, I can say that your proposal is quite interesting. Just I don't have the time in this moment. The program you propose, while conceptually simple, will need some time to be implemented properly, especially if the graphical aspect has to be elegant (i.e. a radar-like round window, with a vector starting from the center, whose modulus indicates the log-magnitude, and the angle indicating the istantaneous phase, maybe leaving traces of the past positions). But, if nobody else volunteers, I can put it on my to-do log for the second half of this year (or maybe earlier, but I cannot commit just now). 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19970 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 13:06:17 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 13:06:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8985 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 13:06:19 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 13:06:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QTGA-0003E5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:04:14 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QTG9-0003Dx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:04:13 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g0FD2rsW053760 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 14:02:54 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20020115135933.10e72744@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:59:33 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Introducing Jason - and asking for cooperation In-reply-to: <3C4422E5.C0367907@usa.net> References: <3C4301BD.878E49BF@usa.net> <006b01c19d34$ad33d500$979a17d2@steve> <001801c19d4c$78f9d9c0$1700a8c0@home> <3C43FE2C.49EE902A@usa.net> <000401c19db2$0de78220$1700a8c0@home> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >in this moment I am in my office at work, and don't have here an English >dictionary, so don't exactly know what a 'pock' is Just checked a dictionary, the correct English word is 'smallpox' (vaiolo in Italian), Just as 'measles' (morbillo) it a kids-disease. I have a 225MHz pentium in the shack, so I will await the 'poor-men' version of Jason. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19663 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 12:45:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 12:45:54 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22587 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 12:45:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 12:45:59 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QStL-00037V-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:40:39 +0000 Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.101]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QStI-00037N-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:40:38 +0000 Received: from northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (northrelay01.pok.ibm.com [9.117.200.21]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA112310 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 07:36:16 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss10.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.2.197]) by northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0FCdEf65968 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 07:39:14 -0500 Message-ID: <3C4422E5.C0367907@usa.net> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:39:01 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Introducing Jason - and asking for cooperation References: <3C4301BD.878E49BF@usa.net> <006b01c19d34$ad33d500$979a17d2@steve> <001801c19d4c$78f9d9c0$1700a8c0@home> <3C43FE2C.49EE902A@usa.net> <000401c19db2$0de78220$1700a8c0@home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave Pick wrote: > Thanks Alberto. > > I tried the 850MHz P3 laptop and it works fine. Obviously the 200MHz machine > is not good enough, I will have to upgrade the shack computer :-( Hello Dave, thanks. Glad that it worked ! I was fearing that my successful tests were only a dream, caused by too much Chianti wine :-) If you agree, I will produce a slowed down version to test on your 200 MHz PC, also to check how the decoding worsens with respect to the faster version. I suspect that many OMs still have PCs in the 166 - 200 MHz range, so a version for this kind of PC could be appropriate. For the Loran lines, in principle I could implement a logical filter, where you click on the spur line, and that frequency will then be ignored by the decoding algorithm. But this would not work if the spur frequency coincides with one of the slots.... I don't see an easy solution, but am open to suggestions. Well, if you want to make a test transmission this evening, I will check that frequency. But maybe a low power beacon would not make it to Italy... let me know please if and when you will transmit, thanks. ---- Rik Strobbe wrote: > I just read the Jason documentation. It looks most interesting and > promising, although there is some chance that some will call it 'pocks' ... > as 7FSK was called 'measles' ;-) Hi Rik, in this moment I am in my office at work, and don't have here an English dictionary, so don't exactly know what a 'pock' is... but, as Steve Olney said, there always will be some 'argue-naughty' around.. :-) But they are easily handled : just ignore them ... ;-) > For transmitting Jason I was thinking of an alternative path, using a PLL > and let Jason control the divider (via LPT of COM port). Your proposals look interesting, and, if someone will build the hardware, I am willing to add this new interfacing mode. Just let's agree on the details. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25137 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 12:45:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 12:45:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21786 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 12:45:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 12:45:29 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QSvB-00037n-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:42:33 +0000 Received: from mailout10.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.21]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QSv8-00037h-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:42:32 +0000 Received: from fwd10.sul.t-online.de by mailout10.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16QSuK-0007R2-00; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:41:40 +0100 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.227.109.48]) by fwd10.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16QSu6-2I7oEiC; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:41:26 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C4301BD.878E49BF@usa.net> <006b01c19d34$ad33d500$979a17d2@steve> <001801c19d4c$78f9d9c0$1700a8c0@home> <3C43FE2C.49EE902A@usa.net> <000401c19db2$0de78220$1700a8c0@home> Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: Introducing Jason - and asking for cooperation X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 13:41:26 +0100 Message-ID: <16QSu6-2I7oEiC@fwd10.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave Pick schrieb: > Thanks Alberto. > > I tried the 850MHz P3 laptop and it works fine. Obviously the 200MHz machine > is not good enough, I will have to upgrade the shack computer :-( > I made a very weak signal and listened to it on a live receiver so it was > against real band noise. A problem seems to be that there will always be a > Loran line in the window so the system has trouble decoding if the wanted > signal is weaker than the Loran line. We'll have to see how this works in > practice. > Thanks for the tip about the receive window, very useful! > My shack PC is in 800x600 with no problems . > I have made a few test transmissions at low power, so if anyone wants to try > it let me know and I'll send a beacon signal on 137.5. > Or even a QSO? > > 73. > Dave > G3YXM. Hi Dave and Alberto, 1. Alberto tks for the IFK software support.the screen presentation: marvelous! 2. 800x600 is ok here. 3. Dave, I`m QRV from now until 1700UTC and from abt 2000UTC until .... 137.5kHz is good, but 137.52kHz would be better bec there are eight strong LORAN-C lines on .500 +/- 17Hz. on .520 +/- 17Hz only two strong lines. pse do announce the time u will transmitt. regards Uwe/dj8wx jo43sv From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24507 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 11:57:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 11:57:54 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 5074 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 11:57:32 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 11:57:32 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QS5F-0002yX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:48:53 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QS5D-0002yS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:48:51 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id LAA26346; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:57:43 GMT Received: (qmail 15023 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 12:36:57 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 12:36:57 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id MAA16762; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 12:06:31 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma016741; Tue, 15 Jan 02 12:06:00 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:53:59 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:47:28 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB994D@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: An appeal to Windoze programmers Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:47:19 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: My last posting on this subject fell on deaf ears so here is a direct appeal :-) Would it be possible for one of the highly expereinced Soundcard / Win95+ programmers outhy there to produce a SB compatible vectorscope prog ? This whould then allow anyone to view low data rate coherent signal coding in real time, adjust frequency very accurately etc. etc etc. AS well as providing a very useful piece of software to use as test equipment for tuning, propagation monitoring etc. What is needed is a Numerically Tuned Oscillator under operator control that can be set in real time, by mouse or keyboard. This mixes down the input from one channel of the soundcard to zero frequency I/Q components. These are low pass filtered and decimated to lower rates, under operator control. The I/Q pairs are then simply displayed on a polar plot. Gain control, or scaling, will be required. Alternatively, a slightly more complicated plotting routines that plots radius on a log scale (dB) but preserves X/Y phase information might give a nicer looking display. In addition a graphical display of phase and amplitude would add a finishing touch Some sort of calibration routine would be needed for use, either feeding in a tone of exact known frequency and adjusting the NCO for a stationary trace. I suggest an NCO tuning range of 300 - 2800 Hz in as fine a resolution as possible, decimation and filtering by factors of 4 / 8/ 16 / 32 / 64 / 128 / 256 and a suitable gain / amplitude scaling control range. In my vectorscope using the separate DSP card, the X/Y display shows the previous N samples, where N is under operator control of 32/64/128/256/512. The optimum number depends on the noisiness of the trace and residual frequency error. One can play endlessly with such a tool ! Andy G4JNT -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14301 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 11:09:15 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 11:09:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 13465 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 11:09:17 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 11:09:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QRFH-0002qF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:55:11 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QRFG-0002q8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:55:10 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g0FArpsW082982 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:53:51 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20020115115030.2b3f4768@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:50:30 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Introducing Jason - and asking for cooperation In-reply-to: <3C4301BD.878E49BF@usa.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Alberto, I just read the Jason documentation. It looks most interesting and promising, although there is some chance that some will call it 'pocks' ... as 7FSK was called 'measles' ;-) For transmitting Jason I was thinking of an alternative path, using a PLL and let Jason control the divider (via LPT of COM port). Least complex would be a 27.2xx MHz PLL in 50Hz steps that is divided by 200, what would give a 136kHz signal in 0.250Hz steps. Since Jason uses 0.252Hz steps the error over 32 steps would be 0.064Hz (or 76% of a bin). As I read from the documentation Jason can handle errors of +/- 1 bin, would the 0.064Hz error be acceptable ? An alternative (and a bit more complex) would be to make a 26.9xxMHz PLL in 50Hz steps and divide it by 198, resulting in a 0.2525252Hz step and reducing the overall error to 0.0168Hz (20% of a bin). Jason would surely have no problem to handle this error, but it would be a bit more complex to read out the exact frequency at 136kHz (due to the odd step). A second alternative would be to use a HF tranceiver (with transverter output) on 13.6MHz and divide the signal by 100. As most modern HF tranceivers can be controlled via the serial port and can be tuned in 10Hz steps (= 0.01Hz on 136kHz) this might be a easy and low cost alternative. 73, Rik ON7YD At 17:05 14/01/02 +0100, you wrote: >Hello group, > > I have devised a novel coding scheme, and have written a new >software to support it. > >I have named it Jason, from the name of the coxswain of the mythological >ship Argo, which was headed to Colchis by the Greek hero Jason. > >The coding scheme of Jason is based on the ideas about IFK that can be found >on the Web site of Steve Olney, VK2ZTO. > >I need your cooperation to test it. I have done some preliminary tests, which >have given very good results, but a true test on the LF hasn't been performed >yet. Instead of cluttering this reflector with the gory technical details of Jason, >I invite you to visit this page : http://www.weaksignals.com/jason > >You can use Jason with a mosfet Class-D Tx, no need for a linear amp. >You can drive the Tx either using a DDS board connected via the parallel port or >the serial port, or up converting an audio signal generated by Jason. > >I tested only the audio interfacing. I need someone who volunteers for testing >the interfacing via the DDS board (I haven't one), with true on-the-air tests. > >Thanks for any cooperation > >73 Alberto I2PHD > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22010 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 11:00:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 11:00:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 6056 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 11:00:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 11:00:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QR8l-0002pQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:48:27 +0000 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QR8k-0002pL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:48:27 +0000 Received: from host217-35-30-77.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.30.77] helo=dellboy) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16QR7v-00064S-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:47:35 +0000 Message-ID: <000401c19db2$0de78220$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C4301BD.878E49BF@usa.net> <006b01c19d34$ad33d500$979a17d2@steve> <001801c19d4c$78f9d9c0$1700a8c0@home> <3C43FE2C.49EE902A@usa.net> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Introducing Jason - and asking for cooperation Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:47:39 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks Alberto. I tried the 850MHz P3 laptop and it works fine. Obviously the 200MHz machine is not good enough, I will have to upgrade the shack computer :-( I made a very weak signal and listened to it on a live receiver so it was against real band noise. A problem seems to be that there will always be a Loran line in the window so the system has trouble decoding if the wanted signal is weaker than the Loran line. We'll have to see how this works in practice. Thanks for the tip about the receive window, very useful! My shack PC is in 800x600 with no problems . I have made a few test transmissions at low power, so if anyone wants to try it let me know and I'll send a beacon signal on 137.5. Or even a QSO? 73. Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22860 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 10:17:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 10:17:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1280 invoked from network); 15 Jan 2002 10:17:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jan 2002 10:17:26 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QQRq-0002kq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:04:06 +0000 Received: from e21.nc.us.ibm.com ([32.97.136.227]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QQRp-0002kl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 10:04:05 +0000 Received: from southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.208]) by e21.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id DAA91598 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 03:58:34 -0600 Received: from usa.net (ss06.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.58]) by southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0FA2YZ85594 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 05:02:34 -0500 Message-ID: <3C43FE2C.49EE902A@usa.net> Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 11:02:20 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Introducing Jason - and asking for cooperation References: <3C4301BD.878E49BF@usa.net> <006b01c19d34$ad33d500$979a17d2@steve> <001801c19d4c$78f9d9c0$1700a8c0@home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave Pick wrote: > I just get occasional wrong characters like / or , > [...} > Operational questions: > How do you clear garbage from the RX screen? > Do you need to start the TX after the RX is running or will it pick up a > signal half-way through a long message? > Is there a way of transmitting a long start tone (seems to be centre > frequency) for alignment purposes? > How long should it take to display a character on the screen? > Hi Dave, thanks for the tests and the report. Well, I can tell you how I tested Jason. Maybe you could initially do a similar test, to rule out any radio-related issue. I had it generate the audio tones, running on a laptop, then I brought the laptop upstairs, with the speaker volume adjusted for a low setting. Then I started Jason in Rx mode on the PC in the shack, dowstairs, with input coming from a microphone, which picked up the tones generated by the laptop. In the shack the sound was so low that I was unable to hear it, but I had perfect copy. I even switched on a radio tuned on an empty portion of the 144 MHz, SSB, to have some sort of white audio noise in the room. Still perfect copy. Please try the above, which do not require any radio (but needs two PCs), to see what happens. Thanks. About what you ask: - Garbage : there is not a clear screen function. Hey, this is just an alpha version ! :-) - There is no need to start the Tx and the Rx in a synchronized way. Of course it will take one or two characters to get in synch. - If you put the program in Tx mode, without any text present on the lower input pane, it will transmit an idle sequence composed of the lower and the higher frequencies of the range. Their difference in frequency is outside the allowed range, so no decoding will occur, but you can use the traces to place them exactly between the two yellow lines. - Each character takes about 24 seconds to show on the screen, for a throughput of roughly 2.5 characters per minute. About tuning : the white lines on the spectrogram window related to the received signal must entirely be within the two yellow lines. If the tuning steps of your Rx are too coarse for this (many Rx have 10Hz as the minimum step, and this can not be fine enough), you can position the receiving window with the mouse. Just left-click with the mouse on the approximate center of the various white lines of the signal. The receiving window will be moved so that the point you clicked on will be positioned exactly half way between the two yellow lines. Probably you will have to use this technique when testing with audio only, as described above, due to the differences between sampling rate of different sound cards. One last thing, about the CPU speed needed. I made all the tests with a 750 MHz Athlon, and I observed that the CPU utilization was around 40 - 50 %. To gather a good statistics of the signal, in Jason I do a 131072 points FFT 10 times per second (roughly). Maybe this is too much for a 200 MHz CPU. If this will prove to be the case, it is a matter of changing some constants to slow it down. Oh, still one final point : I have a report that working at 800 x 600 resolution the program displays incorrectly its screen. Probably this can be fixed. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15026 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2002 22:58:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 2002 22:58:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 1368 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2002 22:58:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 2002 22:58:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QG05-0001S5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 22:54:45 +0000 Received: from fep04.swip.net ([130.244.199.132] helo=fep04-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QG04-0001S0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 22:54:44 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.13.242]) by fep04-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020114225355.CHJW21176.fep04-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 23:53:55 +0100 Message-ID: <009301c19d4e$6913cdc0$8d0a97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C4301BD.878E49BF@usa.net> <002901c19d3d$c00e19c0$8d0a97d4@oemcomputer> <3C4351B6.DFA64704@usa.net> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Introducing Jason - and asking for cooperation Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 23:54:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alberto di Bene wrote: [.....] > an audio frequency. This is not of course the case, as the DDS is used to generate > the carrier at 136kHz. The frequency values reported in that table are to be added > to the nominal value of the carrier generated by the DDS. Sorry for the confusion. [.....] Yes, of course. I have already computed the DDS phase increment offsets for the 32 tones. My present guess of the delta-f is: 5512.5(standard Fs/2) * 3(FFT bins per step) / 0x10000(something with FFT & power of two)... ? Please correct me if I am wrong. By the way, what happens if a signal slides from one FFT bin to another? Will it be a smooth transition so that the power is approximately -3dB in the bins that surrounds the signal when the signal is in the middle? I guess there is a way to get the correct total signal power even if the signal is not exactly on an FFT bin (frequency wise)? I've had no experience with this windowing stuff, I've only read a little about it... I'm just curious... 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12931 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2002 22:44:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 2002 22:44:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 18844 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2002 22:44:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 2002 22:44:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QFn7-0001PK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 22:41:21 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QFn6-0001PF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 22:41:21 +0000 Received: from host217-35-30-77.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.30.77] helo=dellboy) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16QFmK-0002Ym-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 22:40:32 +0000 Message-ID: <001801c19d4c$78f9d9c0$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C4301BD.878E49BF@usa.net> <006b01c19d34$ad33d500$979a17d2@steve> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Introducing Jason - and asking for cooperation Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 22:40:31 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alberto. I have the whole shack in turmoil with wires all over the place trying to make Jason work across the room. I am using sound-card TX mode as I have an SSB exciter on 136 kHz so I can transmit Jason OK if anyone wants a test. I adjusted audio level to get nice clear thin lines on the spectral display, centered between the yellow lines. Even when connecting audio direct from TX PC to RX PC I still can't get a good copy. I just get occasional wrong characters like / or , I have discovered: It seems to work on every PC I've tried, no problems like with Spectran. Even the 100Meg machine sends OK but I have yet to get a good decode. My RX PC is a P200, is this fast enough? Tomorrow I will try an 850Meg machine, if that doesn't work I will be very confused... Operational questions: How do you clear garbage from the RX screen? Do you need to start the TX after the RX is running or will it pick up a signal half-way through a long message? Is there a way of transmitting a long start tone (seems to be centre frequency) for alignment purposes? How long should it take to display a character on the screen? Very exciting, I like to have new toys to play with! 73. Dave. G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26726 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2002 22:32:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 2002 22:32:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 3378 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2002 22:32:34 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 2002 22:32:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QFco-0001Mo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 22:30:42 +0000 Received: from e21.nc.us.ibm.com ([32.97.136.227]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QFcm-0001Mj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 22:30:41 +0000 Received: from southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.208]) by e21.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30460 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 16:25:32 -0600 Received: from usa.net (ss1.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.66]) by southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0EMTeZ118764 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 17:29:41 -0500 Message-ID: <3C435C5D.BBAD9F37@usa.net> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 23:31:57 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Introducing Jason - and asking for cooperation References: <3C4301BD.878E49BF@usa.net> <002901c19d3d$c00e19c0$8d0a97d4@oemcomputer> <3C4351B6.DFA64704@usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Group. I have just found another of the nice 'features' of Windows.... If you have your Windows set for 'Large Fonts', Jason is totally unusable (as a matter of fact, you are unable even to close it). So, for the time being, until I find a workaround to this, please be sure to have your Windows installation set to 'Small Fonts', if you want to test Jason. Thanks Bill... 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15254 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2002 21:49:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 2002 21:49:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 27940 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2002 21:49:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 2002 21:49:01 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QEvz-0001FP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 21:46:27 +0000 Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.101]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QEvw-0001FK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 21:46:25 +0000 Received: from northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (northrelay01.pok.ibm.com [9.117.200.21]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA391970 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 16:41:25 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss14.pok.socks.ibm.com [9.14.3.66]) by northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0ELi3I162580 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 16:44:09 -0500 Message-ID: <3C4351B6.DFA64704@usa.net> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 22:46:31 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: None X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Introducing Jason - and asking for cooperation References: <3C4301BD.878E49BF@usa.net> <002901c19d3d$c00e19c0$8d0a97d4@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Johan Bodin wrote: > [...] > BTW, Alberto, what is the serial format? 9k6 8N1? (the o'scope is not within reach :-) > The "user interface" is really a piece of art! Wow! I hope it will work as good as it looks. > Hi Johan, thanks for your nice words. Yes, the serial format is 9k6 8N1. In the technical description I have been misleading about the use of the DDS. Re-reading it, I see that one could infer from what I wrote that the DDS should generate an audio frequency. This is not of course the case, as the DDS is used to generate the carrier at 136kHz. The frequency values reported in that table are to be added to the nominal value of the carrier generated by the DDS. Sorry for the confusion. Another thing I forgot to say (but it could be derived from the other values) is the throughput. Sending a nibble every (roughly) 12 seconds, means 2.5 full characters per minute. Not a speed champion, but it must be compared with QRSS..... 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10553 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2002 21:04:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 2002 21:04:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 7073 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2002 21:04:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 2002 21:04:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QE8g-00016Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 20:55:30 +0000 Received: from fep01.swip.net ([130.244.199.129] helo=fep01-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QE8f-00016L-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 20:55:29 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.10.141]) by fep01-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020114205441.BVXD1315.fep01-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 21:54:41 +0100 Message-ID: <002901c19d3d$c00e19c0$8d0a97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C4301BD.878E49BF@usa.net> Subject: LF: Re: Introducing Jason - and asking for cooperation Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 21:55:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello All Alberto I2PHD wrote: > You can drive the Tx either using a DDS board connected via the parallel port or > the serial port, or up converting an audio signal generated by Jason. I believe that some of you are using the DDS VFO designed by G0MRF? If there is interest, I will write a new PIC program for it to support Jason. The DFCW keying pin could be used as input for serial data from the PC. BTW, Alberto, what is the serial format? 9k6 8N1? (the o'scope is not within reach :-) The "user interface" is really a piece of art! Wow! I hope it will work as good as it looks. 73 Johan Bodin SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4209 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2002 20:53:40 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 2002 20:53:40 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28340 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2002 20:53:42 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 2002 20:53:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QE0s-00014G-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 20:47:26 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QE0s-00014B-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 20:47:26 +0000 Received: from blanch.pncl.co.uk (56.235.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.235.56]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g0EKkaW22225 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 20:46:36 GMT Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020114203656.00a0aec0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 20:45:37 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: Mystery Signal Partly Solved In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20020114111441.00aaa760@gemini.herts.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 12:07 14/01/02 Monday +0000, Jim wrote: >................................................................. >Although there are many national grid lines in the area, I found that the >signal clearly came from one particular line, which appears to be the main >feed line for a sub-station at Patchett Green, beside the M1 motorway just >east of Watford (next door to the Hare Krishna temple!), at 51 39' 39" N, >0 20' 31" W. Well done, Jim! Wonder if ALL 400 kv lines emit similar sigs? I'll try the South Coast trunk line next time I get down there. Could be that's what Laurie is hearing. Have now calibrated the loop and it seems pretty accurate after all. Got within two degs on all the amateur 136 sigs I've heard so far. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7258 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2002 20:41:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 2002 20:41:53 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3039 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2002 20:41:54 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 2002 20:41:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QDs7-00013B-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 20:38:23 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QDs6-000136-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 20:38:22 +0000 Received: from ldsas15-79-130-107.cw-visp.com ([212.137.130.107] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16QDgZ-00054n-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 20:26:28 +0000 Message-ID: <3C434197.84FEF73B@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 20:37:43 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: First Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: A first QSO to anywhere by any method means that a person was in the right place at the right time and stayed up all night to achieve the object, especially in the case of Transatlantic. I have had some firsts and the same criteria applies, in some cases luck, then having seized the opportunity expertise and skill play a part. Recently some of us up and down the UK and in other parts of EU have decided to sit up late and are now doing better than so called Firsts and still using the same old transmitters, antennas and QRS mode varying from 2 sec dots- 60 sec dots, DFCW and a recent Measles mode with spots galore!! Perhaps we should have stayed up later some years ago to become an obsolete First. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14004 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2002 19:57:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 2002 19:57:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 23484 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2002 19:56:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 2002 19:56:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QD8U-0000w5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 19:51:14 +0000 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QD8S-0000w0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 19:51:13 +0000 Received: from steve (ppp151.dyn154.pacific.net.au [210.23.154.151]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA20109 for ; Tue, 15 Jan 2002 06:50:15 +1100 Message-ID: <006b01c19d34$ad33d500$979a17d2@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C4301BD.878E49BF@usa.net> Subject: LF: Re: Introducing Jason - and asking for cooperation Date: Tue, 15 Jan 2002 06:49:59 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G'day Alberto, > > I have named it Jason, from the name of the coxswain of the mythological > ship Argo, which was headed to Colchis by the Greek hero Jason. > I hope you get the cooperation you are asking for - and not a dreary saga of "Jason and the Argue-nauts" :-) I have downloaded Jason and hope to play this weekend. 73 Steve VK2ZTO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3490 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2002 18:32:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 2002 18:32:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 25133 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2002 18:33:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 2002 18:33:00 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QBm9-0000km-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 18:24:05 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16QBm8-0000kh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 18:24:04 +0000 Received: from ldsas16-80-131-20.cw-visp.com ([212.137.131.20] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16QBad-0004gi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 18:12:11 +0000 Message-ID: <3C430E4D.A8E933AF@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 16:58:54 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: LF Handbook References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Tom Boucher wrote: > Dear LF Group > > Someone gave me a Christmas present of the excellent 'Low Frequency > Experimenter's Handbook' by Peter Dodd G3LDO which is full of technical > advice and practical construction articles for those interested in LF > work. Now I had already purchased a copy of this book some time ago so I > wondered what I should do with this spare copy that I now have. > > I was going to send it to Big Kev as I know he has secretly yearned for > his own copy of Peter's book for a long time. Perhaps Big Kev would take > it as a small token of appreciation for all the selfless support he has > given to those on this reflector and in recognition of his own superior > technical and operating abilities, (on all modes). Thanks om for the consideration but it would have been RETURNED TO SENDER > > > Then I thought 'Sod it - why should I?' > > So if anyone would like to contribute 50% of the book's current price > (16.14 pounds) to a charity of their choice, I will be glad to let them > have it. > > 73, Tom G3OLB. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11029 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2002 16:28:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 2002 16:28:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5738 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2002 16:28:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 2002 16:28:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Q9hA-0000Ol-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 16:10:48 +0000 Received: from e31.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.129]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Q9h9-0000Od-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 16:10:47 +0000 Received: from westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com [9.99.140.22]) by e31.co.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA16410 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:06:52 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss07.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.57]) by westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g0EG9nk51214 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 09:09:50 -0700 Message-ID: <3C4301BD.878E49BF@usa.net> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 17:05:18 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Mailing List" Subject: LF: Introducing Jason - and asking for cooperation Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello group, I have devised a novel coding scheme, and have written a new software to support it. I have named it Jason, from the name of the coxswain of the mythological ship Argo, which was headed to Colchis by the Greek hero Jason. The coding scheme of Jason is based on the ideas about IFK that can be found on the Web site of Steve Olney, VK2ZTO. I need your cooperation to test it. I have done some preliminary tests, which have given very good results, but a true test on the LF hasn't been performed yet. Instead of cluttering this reflector with the gory technical details of Jason, I invite you to visit this page : http://www.weaksignals.com/jason You can use Jason with a mosfet Class-D Tx, no need for a linear amp. You can drive the Tx either using a DDS board connected via the parallel port or the serial port, or up converting an audio signal generated by Jason. I tested only the audio interfacing. I need someone who volunteers for testing the interfacing via the DDS board (I haven't one), with true on-the-air tests. Thanks for any cooperation 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8948 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2002 16:27:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 2002 16:27:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4905 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2002 16:27:45 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 2002 16:27:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Q9rK-0000RL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 16:21:18 +0000 Received: from smtp1.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.35.136] helo=smtp.wanadoo.nl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Q9rI-0000RD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 16:21:17 +0000 Received: from nl9222 (p1112.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.203.93]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id g0EGKPd10470 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 17:20:25 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <200201141620.g0EGKPd10470@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 17:20:30 +0000 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 135921kHz Mal/G3KEV X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 1/14/02 11:36:00 AM, you wrote: > > >john currie wrote: > >> Hi Valerio , i think I saw you last night for the first time. Condx were >> poor But "IK" stands out. Were you on at that time ( around 0530)? >> Picture to follow >> 73 de John VE1ZJ >> >> Hello John. > >Have u been watching around 2200 utc onwards for any sigs around the usual >135.922 khz. >F6BWO has been on and I have been going on for short periods. I think others >have been on also from UK/EU. >Where can I get the email address for VE7SL and VE1ZZ. I never see any msgs >from them via the reflector. I prefer to email direct for their acty >details. >73 de Mal/G3KEV Mal.. Look at the source of the message, that's were all the info is! From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 28822 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2002 16:18:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 2002 16:18:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 25169 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2002 16:17:53 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 2002 16:17:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Q9j8-0000Oz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 16:12:50 +0000 Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.88]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Q9j7-0000Ou-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 16:12:49 +0000 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 16Q9iL-000HJf-0U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 16:12:02 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 16:10:56 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: LF: LF Handbook MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 3.05 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group Someone gave me a Christmas present of the excellent 'Low Frequency Experimenter's Handbook' by Peter Dodd G3LDO which is full of technical advice and practical construction articles for those interested in LF work. Now I had already purchased a copy of this book some time ago so I wondered what I should do with this spare copy that I now have. I was going to send it to Big Kev as I know he has secretly yearned for his own copy of Peter's book for a long time. Perhaps Big Kev would take it as a small token of appreciation for all the selfless support he has given to those on this reflector and in recognition of his own superior technical and operating abilities, (on all modes). Then I thought 'Sod it - why should I?' So if anyone would like to contribute 50% of the book's current price (16.14 pounds) to a charity of their choice, I will be glad to let them have it. 73, Tom G3OLB. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5548 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2002 13:51:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 2002 13:51:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 17293 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2002 13:51:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 2002 13:51:44 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Q7Uc-0008Vg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 13:49:42 +0000 Received: from firewall.dii.unisi.it ([193.205.7.2] ident=postfix) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Q7Ua-0008VY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 13:49:41 +0000 Received: from alpha.dii.unisi.it (alpha [10.1.0.1]) by firewall.dii.unisi.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 050C43C015 for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 14:44:44 +0100 (CET) Received: from dii.unisi.it (pcfasec.dii.unisi.it [10.6.9.1]) by alpha.dii.unisi.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id D81DEA55AC for ; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 14:47:12 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3C42DFD3.ED5DD8DD@dii.unisi.it> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 14:40:35 +0100 From: "valerio gabbani" Organization: Siena University X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.7 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 135921kHz References: <02011217502200.01199@base> <3C424091.1C90C2E8@ns.sympatico.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: john currie wrote: > > Hi Valerio , i think I saw you last night for the first time. Condx were > poor But "IK" stands out. Were you on at that time ( around 0530)? > Picture to follow > 73 de John VE1ZJ > > VALERIO wrote: > > > John ant the others on the other side, > > please look for me on 135921kHz starting at 4:00 UTC 13/01/2002 > > > > '73 IK5ZPV, Valerio John, yes,i was transmitting. I started much later just around 5:30 UTC untill 6:30, so you copied only the beginning of my transmission. The power i use is limited to 1,5 kW by corona discharge at the ends of my T vertical 15 mt high, 100 mt long. Thank you for the report John, hope for a x-band qso soon. '73 IK5ZPV, Valerio From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 781 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2002 12:30:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 2002 12:30:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 2879 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2002 12:30:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 2002 12:30:03 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Q69A-0008IE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:23:28 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Q699-0008I9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:23:27 +0000 Received: from ldsas11-75-126-62.cw-visp.com ([212.137.126.62] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16Q5xe-0002Jo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:11:35 +0000 Message-ID: <3C42C2A5.E1D4C90D@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 11:36:05 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 135921kHz References: <02011217502200.01199@base> <3C424091.1C90C2E8@ns.sympatico.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: john currie wrote: > Hi Valerio , i think I saw you last night for the first time. Condx were > poor But "IK" stands out. Were you on at that time ( around 0530)? > Picture to follow > 73 de John VE1ZJ > > Hello John. Have u been watching around 2200 utc onwards for any sigs around the usual 135.922 khz. F6BWO has been on and I have been going on for short periods. I think others have been on also from UK/EU. Where can I get the email address for VE7SL and VE1ZZ. I never see any msgs from them via the reflector. I prefer to email direct for their acty details. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18050 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2002 12:19:00 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 2002 12:19:00 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18013 invoked from network); 14 Jan 2002 12:18:43 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jan 2002 12:18:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Q5xX-0008GI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:11:27 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Q5xW-0008GA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:11:26 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16Q5wh-000336-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:10:35 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16Q5wf-0001At-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:10:33 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020114111441.00aaa760@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 14 Jan 2002 12:07:29 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: Mystery Signal Partly Solved MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Since it seemed the mystery carrier on 136.647kHz might be somewhere near Watford, only about 10 miles from my QTH, I went out on Sunday morning armed with a loop antenna and RX, a compass and my field strength measuring gear. After taking a few bearings, the source did indeed turn out to be near Watford - it comes from some overhead power lines. Although there are many national grid lines in the area, I found that the signal clearly came from one particular line, which appears to be the main feed line for a sub-station at Patchett Green, beside the M1 motorway just east of Watford (next door to the Hare Krishna temple!), at 51 39' 39" N, 0 20' 31" W. According to the ordnance survey map, it runs for about 32km, roughly on a bearing of 340degrees, terminating at a sub-station near Chalton, just north of Dunstable. The signal level underneath the lines was fairly constant up to 5km from the Watford end, so I assume it is actually propagating along the full length of line. The field strength is only of the order of 10mV/m directly under the wires, so there can't be much power involved - however, since it is several wavelengths long and on big pylons it is probably a reasonably efficient radiator. I suppose the ERP is of the order of milliwatts. As to why there is a 136kHz signal going down a 400kV power line, I really don't know - could it be a power line signalling system like the ones used by utilities in the USA, which have been an obstacle for those campaigning for an LF amateur band there? I have never been able to detect any modulation on the signal, so it can't be used very much if it is. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6000 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2002 23:29:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Jan 2002 23:29:19 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29105 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2002 23:29:20 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Jan 2002 23:29:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Ptvi-0006l8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 23:20:46 +0000 Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.103]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Ptvh-0006l2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 23:20:45 +0000 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.178.20cf27a (3893) for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 18:19:23 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <178.20cf27a.29736ffa@aol.com> Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 18:19:22 EST Subject: LF: Re: DFCW 1Hz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 72 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Geri, > Thanks for the hint, also Fabian and Jeff have told me that 1 Hz shift for > DFCW might be not enough. I found your 1 Hz DFCW quite comfortable, using slow scrolling and 0.34 Hz resolution (eg. Spectrogram at 5512 Hz sampling rate or 3s Argo). 73 de Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15379 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2002 21:23:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Jan 2002 21:23:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 19723 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2002 21:23:28 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Jan 2002 21:23:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Ps3m-0006XH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 21:20:58 +0000 Received: from smtp1.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.91] helo=mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Ps3g-0006XC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 21:20:57 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.41.144]) by mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 17:19:13 -0400 Message-ID: <3C424091.1C90C2E8@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 21:21:05 -0500 From: "john currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 135921kHz References: <02011217502200.01199@base> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Valerio , i think I saw you last night for the first time. Condx were poor But "IK" stands out. Were you on at that time ( around 0530)? Picture to follow 73 de John VE1ZJ VALERIO wrote: > John ant the others on the other side, > please look for me on 135921kHz starting at 4:00 UTC 13/01/2002 > > '73 IK5ZPV, Valerio From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12275 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2002 18:50:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Jan 2002 18:50:23 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27207 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2002 18:50:24 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Jan 2002 18:50:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Ppdy-0006FT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 18:46:10 +0000 Received: from siaag1ac.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Ppdx-0006FO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 18:46:09 +0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id NAA09318 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 13:44:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 13:44:14 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Re: DFCW, was 136 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200201131344_MC3-EDAF-C7A5@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Dave, thanks for the hint, also Fabian and Jeff have told me that 1 Hz shift for DFCW might be not enough. I need to find another solution. Currently I shift the 120 MHz main oscillator build into the DDS by varying the supply voltage of the sealed chrystal oscillator, so 1 Hz is the maximum I can get (actually I can vary between 0 and 1 Hz). Probably I need to build a separate 120 Mhz oszillator with a larger variance, so that I get at least 3 or 4 Hz at 136 kHz ... Hope Fabian, DJ1YFK (our youngest LF operator in DL!) makes it over to you, it is surprising how good his little 40 Watt tx works. By the way: QRSS must be a real challenge for Fabian, he normall is a HSC guy ... Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13584 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2002 15:01:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Jan 2002 15:01:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 27873 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2002 15:01:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Jan 2002 15:01:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Pm4l-0005rK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 14:57:35 +0000 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Pm4k-0005rF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 14:57:34 +0000 Received: from host217-35-30-77.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.30.77] helo=dellboy) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16Pm3y-0004tA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 14:56:46 +0000 Message-ID: <001501c19c42$88d32c80$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: Re: LF: 136 Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 14:56:51 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Fabian. Please try again if you hear (see) me. I would have been able to copy if the noise had stayed away. You also had a slight drift which took you across a Loran line which didn't help! 73. Dave G3YXM. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Fabian Kurz" To: Sent: Sunday, January 13, 2002 3:31 PM Subject: Re: LF: 136 > > Who was the "1YFK" (I think) station you worked. I tried to work him but > > bursts of noise took out his full call? > > Hi Dave, > > It was me! I called u several times, first with QRSS3 then with QRSS5, but > it didn't work unfortunately. Your signals were great here (audible!). My > ERP is in the range of 10 mW, so I was very happy that you got the "YFK" at > least (see screenshot attached)... > > Next weekend I will be QRV from our clubstation and use a 160m-Dipole @ 10m > which will certainly be a big improvement to my antenna at home (1/100 > wavelength wire...) . > Hope to meet you then (in QRSS or norm-CW) > > vy 73, Fabian dj1yfk > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3515 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2002 14:42:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Jan 2002 14:42:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 11291 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2002 14:42:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Jan 2002 14:42:01 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Plfn-0005oO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 14:31:47 +0000 Received: from moutvdom00.kundenserver.de ([195.20.224.149]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Plfk-0005oJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 14:31:44 +0000 Received: from [195.20.224.204] (helo=mrvdom00.kundenserver.de) by moutvdom00.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 16Pley-0001Fa-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 15:30:56 +0100 Received: from p3e9d2337.dip.t-dialin.net ([62.157.35.55] helo=diolog.de) by mrvdom00.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 16Plew-0002KB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 15:30:54 +0100 From: "Fabian Kurz" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 136 Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 15:31:31 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1155 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060406050203060401020002" Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060406050203060401020002 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit > Who was the "1YFK" (I think) station you worked. I tried to work him but > bursts of noise took out his full call? Hi Dave, It was me! I called u several times, first with QRSS3 then with QRSS5, but it didn't work unfortunately. Your signals were great here (audible!). My ERP is in the range of 10 mW, so I was very happy that you got the "YFK" at least (see screenshot attached)... Next weekend I will be QRV from our clubstation and use a 160m-Dipole @ 10m which will certainly be a big improvement to my antenna at home (1/100 wavelength wire...) . 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MMwwIbAAxkKslxWAUDEVIMAOokWB4thgCBEY7Pk6w2TShHMH5DNrcTyT/CxJhVtxyRMmXbAB H+ZTNJJ8JQZeBDKcjlCcgceQEFVCAal4FVobmBwLNAKu6ijvlxtTTwRkwCQPdGDqW1pABsJO u4+LvP9dBFuFqEd6kUlMtUpmrAYH1F1ngYSgeRAD7IBilMd5pYcFDBa0GEYp0cDJ2IrxlIck NcZCsUAFEM3dqEAC0MAGLIln4FlnQYRjAMVSJFETtcoP/MADsA5HdFYFMMUSMEAFcBVkWFoD pMoOrIcF7MCwbc8JB0gScSSgeEwMCCgBdtxcgcCJYWmErlAbKQHOSmAg0VgHZDiU0uGXljHZ 0NTfUWXJZlANUgkHuKhJAmhAEdhMhUyAXfkFZbgRIZGJTUDLARALTBBIQb1N2I1OljwA4MBF BggZZMGNSuBESGRLS2VAHKXEn7RG2HAaetQhZMHEgB2Eb+mHbx0HrykiIymEdQBFYNBIUqBP CPgLEZHGUb1Zq7zTBcSMYdgYYmRAFa0JhQxEDXyIRkAACTwKPolKUaCNiiwACCwXyPlfjvFY QAAAOw== --------------060406050203060401020002-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11482 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2002 13:05:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Jan 2002 13:05:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 28791 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2002 13:05:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Jan 2002 13:05:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16PkG8-0005fZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 13:01:12 +0000 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16PkG7-0005fU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 13:01:11 +0000 Received: from host217-35-30-77.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.30.77] helo=dellboy) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16PkFL-0002tO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 13:00:23 +0000 Message-ID: <000401c19c32$4601b760$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200201130005_MC3-EDB5-A564@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: LF: 136 Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 13:00:25 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Geri. I saw you on DFCW today but with Argo set for 3 sec dots, your shift was too small to read easily. My slow PC will not go fast enough to read it any other way! Who was the "1YFK" (I think) station you worked. I tried to work him but bursts of noise took out his full call? Cheers Dave G3YXM. >Saw DK8KW qrssing with F6BWO today, so Geri seems to have fixed his TX.< ... that is true, but I don't dare to do any long transmissions currently, because I fear to loose my PA again ... I need to find a better solution, which is more resitant against the heat build-up during long-term transmissions. I surely will joint in to the T/A tests at a later stage. 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22875 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2002 05:14:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Jan 2002 05:14:10 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 13058 invoked from network); 13 Jan 2002 05:14:11 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Jan 2002 05:14:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Pcqe-0004xg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 05:06:24 +0000 Received: from siaag2ae.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.135]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Pcqd-0004xH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 05:06:23 +0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2ae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id AAA01256 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 13 Jan 2002 00:05:05 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 13 Jan 2002 00:04:44 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: Re: LF: 136 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200201130005_MC3-EDB5-A564@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Markus and group, >Saw DK8KW qrssing with F6BWO today, so Geri seems to have fixed his TX.< ... that is true, but I don't dare to do any long transmissions currently, because I fear to loose my PA again ... I need to find a better solution, which is more resitant against the heat build-up during long-term transmissions. I surely will joint in to the T/A tests at a later stage. 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13596 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2002 21:04:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Jan 2002 21:04:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3852 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2002 21:04:09 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Jan 2002 21:04:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16PVGb-00041G-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 21:00:41 +0000 Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.163]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16PVGa-00041B-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 21:00:40 +0000 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.177.207c4a4 (4420) for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 15:59:48 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <177.207c4a4.2971fdc3@aol.com> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 15:59:47 EST Subject: Re: LF: 136 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 72 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear John, > There did appear to be weak dfcw around freq used by markus, but "T" > copy. Were you on Markus (in the morning)? Nope, my last TA slot transmission was Monday morning (Jan 7th). Had tried agn Tuesday but given up, no current due to the thick frost on the ant. I'll give it another go later tonight (135922.3/.4 DFCW, 100s on 33s off), which should still be in view alongside Valerio. Saw DK8KW qrssing with F6BWO today, so Geri seems to have fixed his TX. 73 es GL to all de Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3268 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2002 19:29:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Jan 2002 19:29:08 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 12453 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2002 19:29:11 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Jan 2002 19:29:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16PTn7-0003rO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 19:26:09 +0000 Received: from smtp1.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.91] helo=mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16PTn6-0003rJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 19:26:09 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.90.84]) by mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 15:26:41 -0400 Message-ID: <3C40D4B2.DF1E2E24@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 19:28:34 -0500 From: "john currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 136 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all saw nil for the last three nights that could be identified . There did appear to be weak dfcw around freq used by markus, but "T" copy. Were you on Markus (in the morning)? 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1816 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2002 18:20:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Jan 2002 18:20:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5849 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2002 18:20:10 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Jan 2002 18:20:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16PSh2-0003jz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 18:15:48 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16PSh2-0003ju-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 18:15:48 +0000 Received: from ldsas18-82-133-118.cw-visp.com ([212.137.133.118] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16PSVZ-0002Gf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 18:03:57 +0000 Message-ID: <3C407D31.9584BCAC@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 18:15:13 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: F6BWO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jeff/F6BWO will be looking for a TA qso/report most late evenings around 2300 UTC onwards on a clear freq around 135.922 khz. He will be using the norm 60 sec dots but will try various down to 10 sec dot. He asked me to QSP this info when we had a QSO earlier on today on 136 khz cw. He will also be QRV on 7025 khz for possible xband. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26320 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2002 17:44:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Jan 2002 17:44:03 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3199 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2002 17:44:04 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Jan 2002 17:44:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16PRvT-0003dx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 17:26:39 +0000 Received: from smtp1.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.91] helo=mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16PRvS-0003ds-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 17:26:39 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.87.167]) by mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 13:26:14 -0400 Message-ID: <3C40B877.47CE26DA@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 17:28:08 -0500 From: "john currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 135921kHz References: <02011217502200.01199@base> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Valerio , will look for you 73 es GL de John VE1ZJ VALERIO wrote: > John ant the others on the other side, > please look for me on 135921kHz starting at 4:00 UTC 13/01/2002 > > '73 IK5ZPV, Valerio From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6396 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2002 17:05:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Jan 2002 17:05:19 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 25535 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2002 17:05:20 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Jan 2002 17:05:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16PRTF-0003Yw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 16:57:29 +0000 Received: from imdns1.tin.it ([212.216.176.237] helo=fep41-svc.tin.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16PRTE-0003Yr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 16:57:28 +0000 Received: from base ([213.45.252.148]) by fep41-svc.tin.it (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with SMTP id <20020112165634.IPAF3603.fep41-svc.tin.it@base> for ; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 17:56:34 +0100 From: "VALERIO" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 135921kHz Date: Sat, 12 Jan 2002 17:50:22 +0100 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.1.99] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <02011217502200.01199@base> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John ant the others on the other side, please look for me on 135921kHz starting at 4:00 UTC 13/01/2002 '73 IK5ZPV, Valerio From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6714 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2002 00:42:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Jan 2002 00:42:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 11734 invoked from network); 12 Jan 2002 00:43:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Jan 2002 00:43:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16PC4z-0001zI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 00:31:25 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16PC4y-0001zD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 00:31:25 +0000 Received: from host62-7-6-53.btinternet.com ([62.7.6.53] helo=default) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16PC4C-0005Ii-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 12 Jan 2002 00:30:37 +0000 Message-ID: <000001c19b00$64d0df00$3506073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: re Ur Virus Brian Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 22:38:47 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Brian (and the Group) The only thing I received today was another e-mail with an odd alphabet, so the subject shows up as 'odd' chars.....BUT it was purported to have come from ME !! So anyone seeing anything like this from my address (all small letters) ,dont open, delete immediately. I dont think this is anything to do with Brian, but you never know. It is time-stamped 2019 this evening (Fri). I do get a steady stream of these type of messages probably originating in Eastern Europe. The latest was 1kbyte and no attachments. Heigh-Ho the joys of the internet. I will go back to using initial capitals for the time being (both work on incomming). Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15889 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2002 19:51:40 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Jan 2002 19:51:40 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29452 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2002 19:51:26 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Jan 2002 19:51:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16P7fp-0001Pb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 19:49:09 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16P7fo-0001PW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 19:49:08 +0000 Received: from blanch.pncl.co.uk (173.235.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.235.173]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g0BJmK612713 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 19:48:21 GMT Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020111194151.00a213d0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 19:49:24 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: Mystery sig. In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20020111165020.00b1e220@gemini.herts.ac.uk> References: <5.1.0.14.2.20020111134947.009f9020@mail.pncl.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks, Jim and Geri. After sending previous email DF'd on DCF49 (128.93 carrier) and got 092 deg so solved mystery. Also DF'd on the multiple weak carriers around 136000 and found some were on the same bearing as DCF39 and the others on DCF49's bearing. So are they intermodulation products? If so why on 136000 give or take a few Hz? I know we went over all this some years ago but I've lost the emails. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3990 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2002 18:36:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Jan 2002 18:36:31 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3624 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2002 18:36:30 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Jan 2002 18:36:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16P6Pa-0001HA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 18:28:18 +0000 Received: from siaag1aa.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16P6PZ-0001H3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 18:28:17 +0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1aa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id NAA04375 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:26:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:26:35 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Mystery sig. To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200201111326_MC3-ED63-EA43@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Walter, >Apparent direction of sig on 136647 from here is 352/172 deg True. If Jim's 235 degs from Hertford is correct then it's located in Watford! But I don't trust it too much. I get a bearing of 079 True for DCF which puts it in the Magdeburg area whereas I think it's near Frankfurt which would be 093 deg. Walter G3JKV.< ... your bearing is absolutely correct, DCF39 is in Burg near Magdeburg! 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1015 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2002 17:10:35 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Jan 2002 17:10:35 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21523 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2002 17:10:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Jan 2002 17:10:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16P54N-000173-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 17:02:19 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16P54M-00016y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 17:02:18 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16P53a-00062q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 17:01:30 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16P53a-0003lj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 17:01:30 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020111165020.00b1e220@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 17:00:30 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: Mystery sig. In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.2.20020111134947.009f9020@mail.pncl.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 13:54 11/01/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Apparent direction of sig on 136647 from here is 352/172 deg True. If >Jim's 235 degs from Hertford is correct then it's located in Watford! >But I don't trust it too much. I get a bearing of 079 True for DCF which >puts it in the Magdeburg area whereas I think it's near Frankfurt >which would be 093 deg. >Walter G3JKV. > > Dear Walter, LF Group, DK8KW's web pages ( http://www.qru.de/dcf39-beacon.html ) have extensive info on DCF39, including that it IS located near Magdeburg - so maybe I should go snooping round Watford! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20202 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2002 15:48:44 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Jan 2002 15:48:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 7239 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2002 15:48:43 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Jan 2002 15:48:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16P3p3-0000vX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:42:25 +0000 Received: from dargolad.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.27]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16P3p2-0000vS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:42:24 +0000 Received: from srv17slx.esoterica.pt (srv17slx.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.47]) by dargolad.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g0BFfbK19066 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:41:37 GMT Received: from slave-6 (por420.esoterica.pt [195.22.18.121]) by srv17slx.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g0BFfZv05827 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:41:36 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020111154258.0099b100@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 15:42:58 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: LF: Virus MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: May I start with apologies. On switching on this morning the modem was called and connected to the ISP before I called the e-mail programme. Watching in open mouthed amazement the system blasted goodness knows what into "ether" of the www before I reacted and tore the modem cable out of the wall socket. The virus protection programme eventually told me it was W32/MsInit.worm.b residing in Window/System/Wininit.exe It would appear unlikely to have arrived as an attachment and probably was received while working with I_Link yesterday. Computers with the "C" drive "share" open are said to be vulnerable. I sincerely hope I have not passed this menace on to anybody and apologise again if I have. 73, Brian 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9459 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2002 14:48:31 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Jan 2002 14:48:31 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29798 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2002 14:48:32 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Jan 2002 14:48:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16P2np-0000ll-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:37:05 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16P2nn-0000lg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:37:04 +0000 Received: from blanch.pncl.co.uk (120.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.120]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g0BEaD001781 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:36:14 GMT Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020111134947.009f9020@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 13:54:01 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: Mystery sig. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Apparent direction of sig on 136647 from here is 352/172 deg True. If Jim's 235 degs from Hertford is correct then it's located in Watford! But I don't trust it too much. I get a bearing of 079 True for DCF which puts it in the Magdeburg area whereas I think it's near Frankfurt which would be 093 deg. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27608 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2002 14:44:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Jan 2002 14:44:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 25173 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2002 14:44:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Jan 2002 14:44:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16P2kJ-0000lK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:33:27 +0000 Received: from cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.174]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16P2kI-0000lF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:33:26 +0000 Received: from modem-13.atalante.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.129.141] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 16P2jV-0001qR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:32:38 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01c19aac$d61a8840$05e9fea9@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. 73kHz Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 14:31:22 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi All,
Jim has noticed that the Rugby signal is down to a carrier only
I will transmit on 71.800 looking for cross band contacts to 136.500 +/-
Will use 10sec QRSS but can do cw if wanted. I Can manage about 1 hour now. but more tomorrow.  73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24724 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2002 11:52:27 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Jan 2002 11:52:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29657 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2002 11:52:14 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Jan 2002 11:52:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16P08I-0000S0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:46:02 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16P08H-0000Rv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:46:01 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16P07W-00046I-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:45:14 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16P07V-0003k6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:45:13 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020111111251.026d2940@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 11:43:44 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: 73kHz / F6BWO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, I noticed the signal from Rugby on 73.25kHz had gone QRT last night; This morning it was back on again, but transmitting an unmodulated carrier. If it stays like this for a while, it could be a good opportunity for 2 way 73kHz activity. At about 2200 the band was otherwise quiet apart from an S9 FSK signal on about 73.6, which I assume must have been CFH - first time I have been able to hear it on this frequency. I also saw QRSS with various dot lengths from F6BWO around 135.922 - I think Jeff must be using a VFO since the signal was drifting up and down by a couple of Hz. This made the long dot lengths rather blurred on the waterfall display and probably not very effective for DX as a result. Shorter dot lengths were fine though. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28147 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2002 09:35:02 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Jan 2002 09:35:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27831 invoked from network); 11 Jan 2002 09:34:49 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Jan 2002 09:34:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Oxz3-0000AN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:28:21 +0000 Received: from ns3.swh.sk ([192.108.125.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Oxyw-0000AI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 09:28:15 +0000 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes.swh.sk [192.108.125.60]) by ns3.swh.sk (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g0B9RGk25620 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:27:16 +0100 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA20441 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:27:07 +0100 (MET) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:27:04 +0100 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E0333C179@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: OM2TW QRT for 2 weeks... Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 10:26:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi LF-ers... I'll be QRT for about 2 weeks because my little son Richard jr. just undego an operation. So you may use my T/A test frq 135.922kHz. Good luck my friends. 73 de Rich OM2TW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29803 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2002 21:59:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Jan 2002 21:59:33 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9377 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2002 21:59:20 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Jan 2002 21:59:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OnBc-0007Io-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 21:56:36 +0000 Received: from siaag1aa.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OnBb-0007Ij-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 21:56:36 +0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1aa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id QAA20519 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 16:55:13 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 16:54:46 -0500 From: "boffin1" Subject: LF: RE: Phase meter? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200201101655_MC3-ED74-163@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thank you Andy for clarifying the context of the question re. phase! 73, Roger. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26076 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2002 21:29:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Jan 2002 21:29:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 18783 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2002 21:29:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Jan 2002 21:29:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OmYd-0007Au-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 21:16:19 +0000 Received: from ct.biil.msz.pl ([212.244.134.201] helo=ananke4.qdnet.pl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OmYc-0007An-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 21:16:18 +0000 Received: from tt ([212.244.254.114]) by ananke4.qdnet.pl with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.1600); Thu, 10 Jan 2002 22:14:12 +0100 Message-ID: <000f01c19a1a$1fd710e0$1400000a@tt> From: "Richard S Hill" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C3DA3E7.51AA3D23@netscapeonline.co.uk> <003201c19a0e$8adddce0$ea9a17d2@steve> Subject: LF: Odp: Re: BOOK Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 22:02:11 +0100 Organization: translations@qdnet.pl MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-OriginalArrivalTime: 10 Jan 2002 21:14:14.0578 (UTC) FILETIME=[C1970920:01C19A1B] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Spoken like a true Aussie! Gud on yer mate! RSH ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Olney To: Sent: Thursday, January 10, 2002 8:39 PM Subject: LF: Re: BOOK > G'day Mal (alias BIG KEV, or maybe not), > > > > > The book published here today by a man from AUS could be a best > > seller. > > The Lazymans CW for LF > > It could rival the LF paperback already in circulation, and selling at > > a big price. > > The public would buy anything. > > > > Is that the best you can do ? No denial that you are now a > self-proclaimed proficient lazy man's CW operator ? (oops - you can't do > that :-). No denial that you are a self-proclaimed Grade 3 operator ? > (oops - you can't do that :-). No denial that you cause QRM by running > 60 second dots at high power ? (oops - you can't do that :-). No denial > that you are just an appliance operator ? (oops - you can't do that :-). > All that would require you to disagree with yourself. Must be confusing. > > Saddest of all is there is no acknowledgement that you are riding on the > backs of the very pioneers you harangued in the past. My worst fears have > been realised - apparently the only big thing about you is the artificial > erections you drone on about ad nauseam (I thought I might try Latin as you > apparently have difficulty with your native tongue - even when you type it > yourself :-). > > You have proved to at least my self that I was wrong. I have been using > the very affectionate nickname "BIG KEV". That is quite obviously > inappropriate as your failure to properly give due credit to the pioneers > proves. I need to get realistic and change that to "small mal". I > thought (because of your difficulty reading your native tongue) to utilise > other languages to represent that affectionate nickname. For example "der > Kleine Mal" - this rhymes with "decliner Mal", but that was ambiguous as you > have certainly declined to credit those whose work you have used to your own > advantage, however, you didn't decline to harangue those same benefactors in > the past. Another possibility was "il piccolo Mal" - but that is too > reminiscent of yet another mode which is off the official Mal approval list > (but keep checking - it may soon have the royal approval - like QRSS :-). > > No, it will just have to chance my arm with your native language (which I am > assuming is English) and move forward with the use of the very affectionate > nickname of "petite mal". > > Yours affectionately > Steve VK2ZTO > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4808 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2002 20:05:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Jan 2002 20:05:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11430 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2002 20:06:00 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Jan 2002 20:06:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OlPG-0006z3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 20:02:34 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OlPF-0006yy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 20:02:33 +0000 Received: from ldsas05-69-120-55.cw-visp.com ([212.137.120.55] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16OlDj-000219-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 19:50:41 +0000 Message-ID: <3C3DF2EE.9628EE0B@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 20:00:46 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: TA/F6BWO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: F6BWO hopes to TX tonight and possibly the next few nights on a clear slot around 135.922 khz and would like the VE and W stations to look out for him. He will be listening on 7025 khz for a xband QSO if possible. Suggested times 2230 - 0100 utc. I wish him luck. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 721 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2002 19:37:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Jan 2002 19:37:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 4089 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2002 19:37:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Jan 2002 19:37:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Oky1-0006tz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 19:34:25 +0000 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Oky0-0006tu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 19:34:24 +0000 Received: from steve (ppp234.dyn154.pacific.net.au [210.23.154.234]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA05593 for ; Fri, 11 Jan 2002 06:33:33 +1100 Message-ID: <003201c19a0e$8adddce0$ea9a17d2@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C3DA3E7.51AA3D23@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: BOOK Date: Fri, 11 Jan 2002 06:39:20 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G'day Mal (alias BIG KEV, or maybe not), > > The book published here today by a man from AUS could be a best > seller. > The Lazymans CW for LF > It could rival the LF paperback already in circulation, and selling at > a big price. > The public would buy anything. > Is that the best you can do ? No denial that you are now a self-proclaimed proficient lazy man's CW operator ? (oops - you can't do that :-). No denial that you are a self-proclaimed Grade 3 operator ? (oops - you can't do that :-). No denial that you cause QRM by running 60 second dots at high power ? (oops - you can't do that :-). No denial that you are just an appliance operator ? (oops - you can't do that :-). All that would require you to disagree with yourself. Must be confusing. Saddest of all is there is no acknowledgement that you are riding on the backs of the very pioneers you harangued in the past. My worst fears have been realised - apparently the only big thing about you is the artificial erections you drone on about ad nauseam (I thought I might try Latin as you apparently have difficulty with your native tongue - even when you type it yourself :-). You have proved to at least my self that I was wrong. I have been using the very affectionate nickname "BIG KEV". That is quite obviously inappropriate as your failure to properly give due credit to the pioneers proves. I need to get realistic and change that to "small mal". I thought (because of your difficulty reading your native tongue) to utilise other languages to represent that affectionate nickname. For example "der Kleine Mal" - this rhymes with "decliner Mal", but that was ambiguous as you have certainly declined to credit those whose work you have used to your own advantage, however, you didn't decline to harangue those same benefactors in the past. Another possibility was "il piccolo Mal" - but that is too reminiscent of yet another mode which is off the official Mal approval list (but keep checking - it may soon have the royal approval - like QRSS :-). No, it will just have to chance my arm with your native language (which I am assuming is English) and move forward with the use of the very affectionate nickname of "petite mal". Yours affectionately Steve VK2ZTO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9955 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2002 19:00:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Jan 2002 19:00:19 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3404 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2002 19:00:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Jan 2002 19:00:07 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OkNj-0006ns-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 18:56:55 +0000 Received: from mailout08.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OkNi-0006nn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 18:56:54 +0000 Received: from fwd05.sul.t-online.de by mailout08.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 16OkMx-0008Qs-03; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 19:56:07 +0100 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.156.6.183]) by fwd05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16OkMh-1rASyfC; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 19:55:51 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001f01c1988c$ea3882e0$6f8901d4@g4jnt> Subject: Re: LF: GPS Coherent PSK X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 19:55:51 +0100 Message-ID: <16OkMh-1rASyfC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andrew Talbot schrieb: > No transmission tonight, other jobs intervened. > Continue tomorrow if anyone still interested ? > > Andy G4JNT > > > > Hi Andy, I am interested. I will try Bills Sigma Delta Kit. regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5981 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2002 16:24:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Jan 2002 16:24:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 13255 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2002 16:24:00 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Jan 2002 16:24:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Ohmq-0006N8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 16:10:40 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Ohmp-0006N3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 16:10:39 +0000 Received: from ldsas13-77-128-25.cw-visp.com ([212.137.128.25] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16OhbR-0004Yf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 15:58:54 +0000 Message-ID: <3C3DA3E7.51AA3D23@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 14:23:35 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: BOOK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The book published here today by a man from AUS could be a best seller. The Lazymans CW for LF It could rival the LF paperback already in circulation, and selling at a big price. The public would buy anything. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28413 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2002 14:32:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Jan 2002 14:32:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 28342 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2002 14:32:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Jan 2002 14:32:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Og8B-000651-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 14:24:35 +0000 Received: from [63.148.102.94] (helo=wfmail01.westfields.veridian.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Og8A-00064w-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 14:24:34 +0000 Received: from Sandy (OKW98-SANDY [10.9.0.28]) by wfmail01.westfields.veridian.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id CSJH75V7; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 09:20:24 -0500 Message-ID: <004a01c199e2$6287a540$1c00090a@Sandy> From: "Elton Sanders" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: rfid Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 09:23:33 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John, try www.microchip.com microid section. download the rfid system design design guide. 125khz seems to be the main frequency but I think the 134.8khz systems work the same. Also a quick web search came up with [DOC] Subject: File Format: Microsoft Word 97 for Macintosh - View as HTML ... 64. »-42. ISO 18000-2. 125/134.2 kHz. fc ± 4 ... of the Band 135.7-137.8 kHz by the Amateur Service. - CISPR ... integrated circuit(s) cards - Proximity cards -. ... www.ero.dk/EROWEB/Public%20consult-October01/SE_Draft_ECC_Report01.doc - Good luck Sandy WB5MMB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4590 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2002 00:40:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Jan 2002 00:40:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 18134 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2002 00:40:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Jan 2002 00:40:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OTDt-0004Gx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 00:37:37 +0000 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OTDr-0004Gq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 00:37:35 +0000 Received: from steve (ppp182.dyn154.pacific.net.au [210.23.154.182]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA17096 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:36:45 +1100 Message-ID: <032a01c1996f$bda65a20$b69a17d2@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C39E6F2.6C1C0918@netscapeonline.co.uk> <004801c197ba$645b49a0$1700a8c0@home> <00f001c19890$374d2600$d19a17d2@steve> <002501c19899$8a32fc60$1700a8c0@home> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: Re: QSO records and other blether Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:40:09 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G'day Dave, > > Actrivity is attractive activity.... or a typo... or a fried egg and > chips... > But a good idea? > I vote for a "good idea"... Steve VK2ZTO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9374 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2002 00:40:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Jan 2002 00:40:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 18157 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2002 00:40:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Jan 2002 00:40:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OTDu-0004H3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 00:37:38 +0000 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OTDt-0004Gs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 00:37:37 +0000 Received: from steve (ppp182.dyn154.pacific.net.au [210.23.154.182]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA17099 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:36:47 +1100 Message-ID: <032b01c1996f$beb2e820$b69a17d2@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020107152540.00aceaf0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <001801c19822$783c1cc0$eb16073e@dave> <00f201c19890$38d6d340$d19a17d2@steve> <001f01c198a2$e9a96040$530c97d4@oemcomputer> Subject: LF: Re: ^10: Band Plan Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:42:34 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G'day Johan, > > I am convinced that "Gentlemen's agreement" will work much > better than a band plan (provided that all involved are gentlemen...) > New modes evolves almost every day. Let them prosper! > Ahh - the sweet word of reason!!!! > > What is most fun? Exploring radio or making rules (or perhaps > throwing flames on an email reflector)? > I vote for exploring. Steve VK2ZTO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18594 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2002 00:28:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Jan 2002 00:28:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 8253 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2002 00:28:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Jan 2002 00:28:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OT2a-0004EY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 00:25:56 +0000 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OT2Y-0004ET-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 00:25:55 +0000 Received: from steve (ppp182.dyn154.pacific.net.au [210.23.154.182]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA15686 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:25:03 +1100 Message-ID: <02db01c1996e$1b107440$b69a17d2@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: "RSGB LF Group" Subject: LF: Sad sight... Date: Thu, 10 Jan 2002 11:31:00 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G'day Mal (alias BIG KEV), Although you have brought some humorous technical arguments to this reflector for the amusement of many, it is sad to chronicle the deterioration of such a leading light as yourself. By your own definitions you have deteriorated into a lazy CW operator, nodding off to sleep in QSOs, and have become a self-categorised Grade 3 operator (see pronouncements from your own good self below). By your own standards you have become a nuisance using slow CW at high powers (see below). By your own pronouncements you have engaged in the sordid activity of getting confirmations of a machine-generated mode from a digital receiving system using computer means on a video monitor (see below). I hope the deterioration has not reached a stage where you are incapable through some infirmity to acknowledge the hard work done by others to blaze a pioneering path (in the face of your harassment) which you now utilise for your own aggrandisement. That would be a sad spectacle. But I am sure that someone who is apparently BIGGER in almost every aspect is big enough to acknowledge that you are riding on the back's of the pioneers and hard workers which you so roundly chastised in the past. Then again I could be wrong - maybe the only thing big about you is the size of your antennas, your real-estate or the amount of watts you pump into the ether. I hope not. The world according to BIG KEV :- "To date all qrss activity that I have seen could be copied on normal aural cw at my qth. I suppose if one has a poor antenna, low power and a noisy qth then maybe qrss is the only way if you must work on 136 khz. Fortunately I do not have these problems. 73 de Mal/G3KEV" "Qrss is discouraging experimenters from improving their antennas, receivers and associated equipment to make a normal aural qso. It is also encouraging nodding off (sleeping) during the hours that it takes to get a MMM. OOO, OXO etc I hope the lazy mans cw will not prevail above 20 khz !!! 73 de Mal/G3KEV" "Is the computer generated qrss send/receive mode recognised for DXCC purposes, also where does xband qso's fit in. For those seeking glory there could be a disappointment. G3KEV" "so that I can hear you properly and not have to use LAZY MANS CW. 73 de G3KEV" "Suggested awards for those long haul qso's across the atlantic. Grade 1...... Grade 2..... Grade 3 Those using .... and a sophisticated computer generated mode like very slow cw,... Good Luck de G3KEV" "At present it seems to be the TAIL WAGGING THE DOG with the few trying to convince the rest of us that we should go to psk, lazy mans cw generated and displayed by a video monitor, or long long dashes on high power causing qrm to the rest of potential users of the band Critic/G3KEV" "Beacons and slow cw are a nuisence especally when using high power and going on for HOURS. G3KEV" "Considering the bandwith constraints on both 73 and 136 khz the most efficient method is normal CW whether it be qrs or normal speed where applicable. ... My suggestion as previously stated it to learn and operate conventional CW and know your appropriate Q codes and use QRS or normal speed as appropriate. 73 De G3KEV" "I tried some 60 sec dot qrs last night for a short time around 2330... The old system worked very well when everyone was on QRS side by side 73 and Happy New Year to all de Mal/G3KEV" "...or any advantage over QRS which takes the minimum bandwith of all the modes to achieve the object on a very narrow band. the only suitable mode for this band is CW, normal speed and QRS. G3KEV" "Thanks John for the confirmation that my signals were visible and readable last night. I will be on tonight at the same time 2300 - 0200 approx same qrg 135.922 khz and qrs 60 sec dots. de Mal/G3KEV" "Yes I would like the screen shots please. de Mal/G3KEV" 73s Steve Olney (VK2ZTO/AXSO - QF56IK : Lat -33 34 07, Long +150 44 40) ============================================= HomePage URL: http://www.zeta.org.au/~ollaneg Containing:- ULF, ELF, VLF & LF Experimentation MF 22m Experimentation InfraSonic Experimentation Laser Comms DX ============================================= From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10569 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2002 00:07:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Jan 2002 00:07:53 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6781 invoked from network); 10 Jan 2002 00:07:52 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Jan 2002 00:07:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OSi1-00049S-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 00:04:41 +0000 Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.163]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OSi0-00049N-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 00:04:40 +0000 Received: from Carmelink@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.18.1844cf78 (15865) for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 19:03:49 -0500 (EST) Received: from web48.aolmail.aol.com (web48.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.161.9]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (v82.22) with ESMTP id MAILINID64-0109190349; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 19:03:49 -0500 Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 19:03:49 EST From: Carmelink@aol.com Subject: Re LF: Inductive RFID transmit spectrum To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <18.1844cf78.296e3465@aol.com> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi, John (G3WKL): Texas Instruments RF-ID system specs should be found at http://www.ti.com/tiris/main.htm If you do a search for Specifications, it presents a full page list of specs, which can be called up in PDF form. RF-ID is on LF, while TIRIS is UHF. Motorola has a 125 kHz system; it has been used in the grim task at the WTC, where employees wore RF-ID badges. Mike W2AG Carmel, NY From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5573 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 23:53:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 23:53:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 28577 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 23:53:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 23:53:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OSV3-00040j-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 23:51:17 +0000 Received: from [195.120.73.201] (helo=netregister.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OSV2-00040e-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 23:51:16 +0000 Received: from ik2dedlibero (brescia17.phoenix.it [213.82.97.81]) by netregister.it (8.11.4/8.11.4) with SMTP id g09NoPF04906 for ; Thu, 10 Jan 2002 00:50:25 +0100 Message-ID: <00ca01c1954a$1d85a1a0$516152d5@it> From: "Giulio Scaroni" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E0333C157@btss103a.swh.sk> Subject: LF: Re: 136kHz in Poland...and Eastern Europe. Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 19:03:28 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: OM2TW wrote: > Hi LF-ers.... As I know, only few stations are active (YO2IS and HA6PC). 136kHz is alowed in > some countries (Croatia, Ukraine, Russia, Estonia) but still no activities. > In that reason I agree with Dave G3YXM "...Let's make Sunday, "CW actrivity > day", people listen then and if they hear nothing they won't bother to get > on the band.....". But to increase the activity in that part of Europe, you > must have a good CW signal around whole Europe. I'm in the central Europe, > but it's the corner of the LF activities. Most of the stations are from > Germany and UK and the majority of all my worked stations are more than > 700km faraway. If you put the station in the air from UK, you may work a lot > of stations in range about 300km in a few days. But let's try here, I have > only 3 LF stations in around 250km ! I have some friends who are often on > 136kHz and listening for the stations spoted in the DX-cluster. On the > average top band antenna they have a possibility to hear only a few stations > with a very good signal. I was a very active station on 160m and I know that > working DX stations with low power (100W and less) on top band is waste of > time. The same count here. The only way, how to increase the activity on the > band and bring some more hams between us, is the way of increasing the power > and growing our antennas. > > 73 de Rich OM2TW Yes Rich, i agree with you, the problem that you have is like we have also here in Italy, no activity from South, not many station in Central/ North, except few I5, one I1, few I2, the Alps in North do the rest. I am tryng now to made a station in 136, but the bigger problem is that there are not activity to test the equipment, here we dont have the CW activity like in DL and G centered at 136.5, so the low activity on saturday/sunday that we can receive here is only in qrss at 137.7, for average station. So, for me a beacon network like the network that we have in 20 and upper band, may be no bad, for example at 135.7, sweepping normal cw, qrss 3, qrss10 dfcw etc. In this way the hams may set the receiving side, and try the better way to receive with the PC and software at different speed and mode of emission, and later, to transmitt. In other way is a very difficult band, not all the people may test the station with the big signal from Ik5ZPV (599) or OM2TW (599+) at 135.922 in the night! I believe that soon i'll put in air a low power beacon here in I2, to help the local hams in this band. 73 to all, and i hope to meet someone soon on the band (when i'll be ready, yes!!) IK2DED Giulio (from Topband to LF hi) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 23:01:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 23:01:55 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 25662 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 23:01:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 23:01:54 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ORh8-0003qb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 22:59:42 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ORh7-0003qW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 22:59:41 +0000 Received: from ldsas17-81-132-235.cw-visp.com ([212.137.132.235] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16ORVi-0000N7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 22:47:55 +0000 Message-ID: <3C3CCB38.968F2592@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 22:59:04 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 136 last night References: <3C3CE689.251F160D@ns.sympatico.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: john currie wrote: > Hi all Had two xband QSOs last night simultaneously. G3KEV was on 60 > sec dots G3AQC was on 30 sec dots with DFCW There was plenty of time to > interweave the reports es answers. Hello John. You handled simultaneous QSO,S very well last night. I was running QRP and delighted that you were able to copy everything first time, hence the speedy QSO again. If convenient, next time that we QSO I will gradually reduce the power to a few watts just to see how low I can get to maintain a QSO. I am using my old home built fet PA that does not run much power anyway even flat out. I wonder what the signal would be like if I had one of the DECCA JEEPS running around 1.2 - 1.5 KW output to the antenna. I have heard these are popular south of Watford. I usually switch on the TX about 2130utc and you seem to hear me right away. I QRT usually between 2300 and Midnight and always QAP/QRV on 7025 khz for xband contacts to VE and W 73 and tnx agn de Mal/G3KEV > > Laurie I don't like this format you are transmitting with. It is > harder to read and I don't think it gains much in the long run. > Sometimes you are transmitting on two frequencies es this buys very > little. It means you are sending faster, but the elements you double up > on have only half the radiated power so it doesn't help when sigs are > weak > 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6338 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 22:56:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 22:56:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 22002 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 22:56:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 22:56:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ORbP-0003p2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 22:53:47 +0000 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.89]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ORbO-0003ox-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 22:53:46 +0000 Received: from rgcomms.demon.co.uk ([193.237.77.63] helo=grahamspent) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 16ORac-000KCi-0V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 22:52:59 +0000 From: "Graham Phillips" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Racal RA1792 Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 22:50:55 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-reply-to: <200201092014.g09KEqd22366@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Ko, Laurie has explained the back-lite on the RA1792. The BITE stands for Built-In-Test-Equipmet and refers to a self-test software routine available on some versions of RA1792. I had about 60 of these receivers a few years ago and found that the internal noise varied .. many of them had the pre-set I.F. gain incorrectly set ... a quick adjustment cured most of them. Some models are fitted with Collins mechanical filters, and others with Crystal ones. ( all at 455 Khz apart from a 16 kHz B.W. roofing filter ) Hope that is of use, 73 de Graham B. Phillips. G3XTZ. g3xtz@rgcomms.demon.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7049 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 21:41:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 21:41:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 3270 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 21:41:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 21:41:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OQRe-0003c8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 21:39:38 +0000 Received: from cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.177]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OQRd-0003c3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 21:39:37 +0000 Received: from modem-115.eluchil.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.190.115] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 16OQQq-0001rM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 21:38:48 +0000 Message-ID: <001d01c19956$091cbcc0$05e9fea9@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. Racal RA1792 Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 21:38:07 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Ko, Back Lite, this refers to the illumination of the display , For Lite read Light.
I use an RA1792 quite succesfully and like the frequency stability and accuracy of the BFO. It has rather poor filtering ,the ultimate rejection is not very good making it sound noisy but this is not a problem when using it with ARGO etc.
I use a 4pole filter in the ant. circuit which helps
I hope this information helps.
 73s Laurie. 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18537 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 21:41:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 21:41:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 7549 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 21:41:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 21:41:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OQRM-0003c1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 21:39:20 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OQRL-0003bw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 21:39:20 +0000 Received: from host213-1-187-178.btinternet.com ([213.1.187.178] helo=presario-1920) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16OQQa-0003Nb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 21:38:32 +0000 From: "John W Gould" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group@Blacksheep.Org" Subject: LF: Inductive RFID transmit spectrum Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 21:39:56 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Inductive RFIDs that operate at 134.8kHz pose a possible treat in the future to the noise floor in the 136kHz amateur band. A paper is currently being considered internationally that would allow an increase in the modulation sidebands, falling in the 136kHz band and elsewhere, from the RFID system. One item of detail omitted from the papers that are being reviewed is a precise specification of the transmit spectrum from the RFID "readers" as the interrogators are termed. It is assumed that it is a flat spectrum with constant spectral density. Grateful if anyone can provide me with more detail of the system's modulation scheme / transmit spectrum. 73 John, G3WKL RSGB HF Committee g3wkl@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22950 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 21:31:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 21:31:55 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27293 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 21:31:44 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 21:31:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OQI9-0003aN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 21:29:49 +0000 Received: from smtp1.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.91] helo=mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OQI8-0003aI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 21:29:48 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.93.55]) by mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 17:30:04 -0400 Message-ID: <3C3CFD16.911A77FF@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 21:31:50 -0500 From: "john currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 136 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Anyone tx tonight 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20539 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 21:15:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 21:15:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 16415 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 21:15:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 21:15:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OQ0A-0003XW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 21:11:14 +0000 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OQ09-0003XR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 21:11:13 +0000 Received: from host213-1-181-11.btinternet.com ([213.1.181.11] helo=presario-1920) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16OPzA-0002Ur-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 21:10:13 +0000 From: "John W Gould" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group@Blacksheep.Org" Subject: LF: 136kHz Guideline rather than Bandplan Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 21:11:30 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I write this e-mail to help clarify the position and reduce the tension caused by a RSGB draft guideline for 136kHz that has wrongly been termed a "bandplan" by some users of this list. Back in 1999 when the RSGB, DARC and other national societies discussed the need for a Bandplan for 136kHz under IARU Region 1 auspices, a clear resolution was made that a bandplan would be inappropriate for the new band. Many of the reasons expressed in the recent e-mails to this list were given, e.g. the need to promote experimentation and flexible usage of the narrow band given to amateur usage. IARU also agreed that permanent beacons would not be promoted as in-band and transmissions near to the amateur allocation could adequately server as propagation indicators. Recognising that some guidance would be helpful to users, particularly amateurs new to the band, a Code of Practice was carried with 30 votes FOR, 6 votes AGAINST and 5 abstentions. The code,  REC/99/LH/C4.6 is as follows: a) No sub-division of the band 135.7137.8 kHz are made for local or DX contacts or specific modes. b) Taking the above into consideration, and that there are LORAN C spurii present, that the 6.6 Hz segment centred on 136.45485 kHz is used for narrow band transmissions. Narrow band transmissions are also preferred above 137.6 kHz. c) Stations should make use of a stable VFO or synthesiser to encourage the acceptance of common frequency working. d) Transmitter testing should be carried out below 136 kHz. e) Weekend mornings should be avoided for long duration transmitter testing. f) Where possible, a telephone number should be incorporated in beacon messages. Since 1999, the evolving nature of the experiments and successes on 136kHz suggest that the guideline is appropriate for revision. It is in this spirit that some of the users of 136kHz band discussed proposals that I put forward last October at the LF Forum of the RSGB HF/IOTA Convention. The Forum has become one of the gathering points for amateurs interested in the band, hence it was appropriate to test the draft. Taking account of the majority views expressed at the Forum, the draft was amended and passed to RSGB Board for submission to the IARU. The detail of the proposal is available on the RSGB HF Committee's web site at http://www.g3wkl.freeserve.co.uk/lf/136kHz.html When the IARU Region 1 discuss the RSGB proposals there will be ample opportunity for differing views from other national societies and a majority vote within Region 1 will be taken. I am sure that the mood of the discussion will be to avoid the regulation that many of us, including myself, would consider inappropriate for the band. We certainly don't want to damage the innovative technology and communication experiments that as far as amateur radio is concerned are a differentiating feature of the band. In the case of 136kHz the guideline / code of practice is merely a mechanism for helping to optimise the use of the small band, amongst regular, new and occasional users and experimenters when there are no specific prevailing factors that define the operating frequency and practice. As always I e-mail with some reluctance as I don't wish to encourage inflamatory remarks, to me an unfortunate aspect of Internet usage 73 John, G3WKL RSGB HF Committee g3wkl@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11577 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 20:45:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 20:45:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 15387 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 20:45:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 20:45:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OPZd-0003SP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 20:43:49 +0000 Received: from mta1.snet.net ([204.60.203.70]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OPZc-0003SK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 20:43:48 +0000 Received: from cianciolo (97.79.252.64.snet.net [64.252.79.97] (may be forged)) by mta1.snet.net (8.12.1/8.12.1/SNET-smtp-1.1/D-1.1/O-1.1) with SMTP id g09KffOg015761 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 15:41:41 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004001c1994e$2e3971e0$6a01a8c0@cianciolo> From: "PC" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200201092014.g09KEqd22366@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Subject: LF: Re: Racal RA1792 Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 15:42:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Ko, I have a RACAL 6790 GM and it also has "BITE" In the case of this receiver it means :Built In Test Equipment" When a special sequence of buttons are pushed the receiver will go through a series of tests to make sure it is operating properly. If not it will return an error number on the screen which should aid in troubleshhooting. PaulC W1VLF ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ko Versteeg" To: Sent: Wednesday, January 09, 2002 4:14 PM Subject: LF: Racal RA1792 > Dear LF group, > > Can anyone explain to me what "BACK LiTE & BiTE Fitted" means. > My 1950 dictionary doesn't show it and i might be to young to know. > > BTW, is the RA1792 a Do or A don't? > Thanks in advance > > 73 Ko, NL9222 > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12651 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 20:20:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 20:20:50 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8804 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 20:20:49 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 20:20:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OP8Q-0003Nx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 20:15:42 +0000 Received: from smtp1.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.35.136] helo=smtp.wanadoo.nl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OP8P-0003Ns-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 20:15:41 +0000 Received: from nl9222 (p1069.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.203.50]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id g09KEqd22366 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 21:14:52 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <200201092014.g09KEqd22366@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 21:14:53 +0000 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Racal RA1792 X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF group, Can anyone explain to me what "BACK LiTE & BiTE Fitted" means. My 1950 dictionary doesn't show it and i might be to young to know. BTW, is the RA1792 a Do or A don't? Thanks in advance 73 Ko, NL9222 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16055 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 20:03:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 20:03:58 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27174 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 20:03:46 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 20:03:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OOrT-0003Jl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 19:58:11 +0000 Received: from smtp1.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.91] helo=mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OOrS-0003Jg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 19:58:10 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.113.107]) by mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 15:53:51 -0400 Message-ID: <3C3CE689.251F160D@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 19:55:38 -0500 From: "john currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 136 last night Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all Had two xband QSOs last night simultaneously. G3KEV was on 60 sec dots G3AQC was on 30 sec dots with DFCW There was plenty of time to interweave the reports es answers. Laurie I don't like this format you are transmitting with. It is harder to read and I don't think it gains much in the long run. Sometimes you are transmitting on two frequencies es this buys very little. It means you are sending faster, but the elements you double up on have only half the radiated power so it doesn't help when sigs are weak 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20215 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 19:23:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 19:23:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 4527 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 19:23:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 19:23:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OOFu-0003Dx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 19:19:22 +0000 Received: from imailg3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.181]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OOFt-0003Ds-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 19:19:21 +0000 Received: from modem-1.dunlendings.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.161.129] helo=g3aqc) by imailg3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 16OOF6-0007QN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 19:18:33 +0000 Message-ID: <000f01c19942$709ccca0$05e9fea9@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000a01c19924$88993960$05e9fea9@g3aqc> <3C3C8FC6.FB108E2E@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: Re: LF: CFH Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 19:17:42 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
  
----- Original Message -----
From: gii3kev
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
Re: LF: CFH

  Laurie Mayhead wrote:
Looks like its back!  137.0kHz at 1530.   73s Laurie. 
.
<Try xband with W1TAG and W4DEX both experts at this game.
de MAL/G3KEV>
 
Yes I know, both friends of mine, we have worked  together 
for at least a year !    
Laurie.
  
  
  
  
  
  
  
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6751 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 18:49:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 18:49:40 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1302 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 18:49:29 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 18:49:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ONlI-00038S-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 18:47:44 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ONlH-00038N-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 18:47:43 +0000 Received: from ldsas01-65-116-188.cw-visp.com ([212.137.116.188] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16ONZt-0000Km-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 18:35:58 +0000 Message-ID: <3C3C8FC6.FB108E2E@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 18:45:26 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: CFH References: <000a01c19924$88993960$05e9fea9@g3aqc> Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit  

Laurie Mayhead wrote:

Looks like its back!  137.0kHz at 1530.   73s Laurie.
Great to hear you and VE1ZJ make your first xband qso last night on 136/7025 khz and in a very short time, no hanging about !!
You probably heard my xband as well at 60 sec dot that took less than an hour, think this is now my
5 th qso with John ranging from 2 sec dot - 60 sec dot all solid contacts, in the minimum time for the speed of transmission.
Surprised more UK operators do not work xband and seem to prefer beacon mode. You cannot beat the excitement of a real time QSO.
Try xband with W1TAG and W4DEX both experts at this game.
de MAL/G3KEV
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4140 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 18:34:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 18:34:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21873 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 18:34:12 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 18:34:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ONUN-00036M-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 18:30:15 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ONUM-00036H-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 18:30:14 +0000 Received: from ldsas12-76-127-171.cw-visp.com ([212.137.127.171] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16ONIx-0007Hf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 18:18:28 +0000 Message-ID: <3C3C8BB0.656C9FBB@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 18:28:00 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: QSO References: Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit  

G0MRF@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 1/8/02 8:46:38 PM GMT Standard Time, gii3kev@netscapeonline.co.uk writes:
 
 
> Dear LF Group,
>
> Another one worth mentioning is G3LDO and OH1TN's 73/136k QSO, which is
> probably the record LF/LF cross band QSO.

Hi Jim
Surely a xband Transatlantic QSO between Canada/USA to the UK is more of an
achievement
and especially those of us that have made several and not just a ONE OFF,
than one just up the road. I frequently work OH1TN at 589/589 each way
daytime or night.
I consider this a local qso to the UK.
Why single this particular qso out.
Does one have to be a RSGB member to get a mention ?? if so this distorts
the reality of what is really happening on LF by those that are not
members.
G3KEV
 
 
 
 
 

Watch out Jim.

Big KEV's personality transplant has been rejected.

One has to have one in the first place for a consideration. Where do you fit in - NIL-continue
sitting on the fence and be a NON-DESCRIPT, do not express an opinion in case you upset your peers. Might even get a KGBI or what ever it is they get, if you do not rock the boat.
G3KEV
 
 
 

David

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28526 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 16:35:26 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 16:35:26 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 13766 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 16:35:24 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 16:35:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OLZX-0002nv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 16:27:27 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OLZW-0002nq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 16:27:26 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16OLYl-0003B3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 16:26:39 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16OLYl-0000D0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 16:26:39 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020109161053.00a913e0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 16:25:43 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: RE: GPS Coherent PSK Transmission In-reply-to: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9942@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.go v.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 12:45 09/01/2002 +0000, you wrote: >Interesting that there appears to be no sign of the callsign ident..... Dear Andy, LF Group, I wouldn't be too surprised - even in 50Hz audio bandwidth, the signal was quite broken up by noise, and I doubt if I would have been able to copy the fast CW ID. In my experience with QRSS signals, a fast CW ID produces rather vague blobs at the sideband frequencies on the spectrogram even if it goes on for a long time - so since this CW ID would have been very short, and the FFT uses a 23s run of data to generate each pixel, the sidebands would be very faint and easily lost in the noise on this spectrogram. On the un-edited image, there are several blurs that could be the ID, but which might equally well be noise. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21226 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 15:48:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 15:48:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 3922 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 15:48:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 15:48:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OKun-0002gB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 15:45:21 +0000 Received: from cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.177]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OKul-0002g6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 15:45:19 +0000 Received: from modem-32.brodda.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.143.160] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 16OKtv-0003XI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 15:44:28 +0000 Message-ID: <000a01c19924$88993960$05e9fea9@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: CFH Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 15:43:47 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Looks like its back!  137.0kHz at 1530.   73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26675 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 15:44:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 15:44:33 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22295 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 15:44:23 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 15:44:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OKpU-0002fQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 15:39:52 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OKpT-0002fL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 15:39:52 +0000 Received: from ldsas11-75-126-45.cw-visp.com ([212.137.126.45] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16OKe3-0005oQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 15:28:03 +0000 Message-ID: <3C3C63FD.4607D264@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 15:38:37 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: CFH Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: It looks like CFH is back again !! It is very strong at the present time 1537utc with me in Scarborough.Usual QRG 137 khz. de G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3599 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 13:57:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 13:57:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4819 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 13:57:36 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 13:57:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OJ9a-0002RX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 13:52:30 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OJ9Z-0002RS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 13:52:29 +0000 Received: from ldsas16-80-131-193.cw-visp.com ([212.137.131.193] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16OIyA-0001Dq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 13:40:43 +0000 Message-ID: <3C3C42CE.F2C26C88@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 13:17:03 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: BANDPLAN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I am surprised that no one has noticed that there is already a Bandplan in operation on 136 khz. All the QRS activity is centred around 135.920 khz and 137.650 khz plus or minus some hz. Other modes like psk, and measles use adjacent frequencies to the above. Normal CW is usually spread between 136 - 137 khz. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27750 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 12:49:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 12:49:34 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 1752 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 12:49:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 12:49:24 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OI7d-0002Hj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 12:46:25 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OI7c-0002He-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 12:46:24 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id MAA27738; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 12:55:09 GMT Received: (qmail 1909 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 13:34:46 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 13:34:46 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id NAA20048; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 13:04:49 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma020044; Wed, 9 Jan 02 13:04:40 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 12:51:41 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 12:45:26 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9942@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: RE: GPS Coherent PSK Transmission Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 12:45:19 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Interesting that there appears to be no sign of the callsign ident..... This was sent every 15.1 minutes approx (the .1 was the callsign itself) 24 WPM as on-off keying, completely independent of the PSK data - so is almost guaranteed to be in there somewhere. Timing of the ID CW signal was derived from a ceramic resonator so is only within a percent of the right speed. The sidebands of the high bandwidth keying will occur at multiples of the keying rate, ie 10 Hz sidebands here with a few at 3.3 Hz due to the dashes. Whatever, Jim's reception was in too narrow a bandwidth to be influenced by this so he saw only the spreading caused by the phase transitions. There ought to be a slight reduction in strength during the keying ID sequence, but the central trace is too saturated to make this out. Andy G4JNT -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22201 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 12:08:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 12:08:45 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5827 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 12:08:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 12:08:31 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OHSA-0002CE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 12:03:34 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OHS3-0002C8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 12:03:27 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16OHRG-0001MP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 12:02:38 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16OHRF-0000o9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 12:02:37 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020109113514.00a6cd70@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 09 Jan 2002 12:01:42 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: RE: GPS Coherent PSK Transmission In-reply-to: <16O1Q0-0MsMGOC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020108111413.00a6cdf0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------050006040904080000010501" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050006040904080000010501 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear LF group, A number of people expressed an interest in my reception of G4JNT's PSK beacon, so here is 1/2 hour from the spectrogram from Monday night, hopefully edited down to a reasonable size for the reflector. As you can see, the phase transitions show up as "beads" on the carrier ( with Spectrum Lab I used 11025 sample rate, divided by 4, and 65k FFT length to get 0.042Hz resolution - what I would usually use for 30sec dots). Note there is a time lag between the 30s markers and the phase transitions, presumably due to the time taken for the FFT to acquire samples. To find the data sequence, we know that the first logic level at the end of the period 21:00:00 to 21:00:30 is a 0; we can see a phase transition occurs at the beginning of the 21:00:30 to 21:01:00 period, so that the second data bit must be 1 - and so on for all 30 bit periods. If there is a phase transition at the beginning of a bit period, the data in that bit period is inverted from the previous data bit; if no transition, the data is the same as the previous period. 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fcGPnf33vqdTpBN044004syobGTIz4IrMAEgVcUsDm8fh51k7LzduzYl9GzG1W1GTX0rKYig 48gykn1AwB9IhW03XzM/h5m/2LWbFUMvNAEj+sgahYjeaYvYKMY2GtpFwVipKqX0C3IkzqdD XePXFwsPGQDtmN4rukJAiusOp1Op156i1//Z --------------050006040904080000010501-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28924 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 11:09:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 11:09:15 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 19773 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 11:09:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 11:09:15 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OGVS-00023W-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 11:02:54 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16OGVQ-00023R-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 11:02:52 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id LAA07391; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 11:11:40 GMT Received: (qmail 30000 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 11:51:17 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 11:51:17 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id LAA13958; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 11:21:21 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma013912; Wed, 9 Jan 02 11:21:08 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 11:08:09 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 11:01:54 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9940@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Phase meter? Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 11:01:47 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >- >From: boffin1 [mailto:boffin1@compuserve.com] >Subject: LF: Phase meter? >I have belatedly seen your queery about phase. In the abstract their is >no answer to your question for phase reqires a reference i.e the phase of >something relative to ....??? (i.e another part of the wave). In the >limit the phase must always close; Nature abhors odd bits of phase >73, Roger, G2AJV. ------------------------------------ The original question, I believe, was for software that would show the phase of received signal / audio tone based on an internally generated reference. This would obviously have to be at a specified frequency, but could easily be generated by software using a Numerically Controlled Oscillator (a DDS in software). The procedure is to generate COS and SIN waveforms at the specified frequency, which are jusst two sinewaves in software 90 degrees apart. Multiplying each of these by the incoming signal gives two products, I and Q components respectively, these are usually then passed through a (software) low pass filter. When displayed on a graph such that the I compont is on the horizontal axis and the Q component on the vertical a good representation of the signal in vector space is seen. Such a display is usually called a Vectorscope. A clean tone with no noise appears as a dot on the screen, whose distance from the origin is the amplitude. A frequency error between the tone and internal reference causes the dot to rotate around a circle at the difference frequency - anticlockwise for a frequency too low and clockwise for too high. So this is a very good way of measuring exact frequency. Noise appears as a amorphous circle around the dot. The instantaneous phase (relative to the internal reference, Roger) of a signal can be determined immediately just by its position on the vectorscope Soundcards are usually too unstable for this - their internal clock sources are notoriously drifty and innacurate. However, for those who understand Windoze programming (All Hail !) it is quite a simple piece of software to write. It needs a user defined NCO which can be tuned in very fine steps - 0.01 Hz error only takes 100 seconds to complete a whole revolution. Amplitude needs to be controlled - you can have a log/dB display of amplitude versus radius. An alternative would be to use the left channel as the signal input and the right as a user supplied reference tone. This would not have the versatility of an NCO appraoch, but could ensure absolute freqeuncy stability of the display. A more advanced and better solution would be to use a reference input tone to continuously determine the Soundcard sampling rate, then use this calculated figure in setting the NCO. I use the 56002EVM module with its clock locked to a freqeuncy standard to do the downconversion of a signal sampled at 8kHz. The NCO is set in steps of 8000 / 2^24 Hz. The zero frequency I/Q samples are filtered and decimated (reduced in sampling rate) to values of 800 right down to 1.95 samples per second. These are output to a PC via a serial link for further processing. This basic tuning / decimation / filtering routine for the EVM forms the workhorse of just about everything I do in the DSP line these days, splitting the processing between two boxes really makes for easy writing of software using a 66 MHz 486 running in a DOS environment ! -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14170 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 00:39:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 00:39:30 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4463 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 00:39:29 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 00:39:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16O6ki-0000gp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 00:38:00 +0000 Received: from imo-m10.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.165]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16O6kh-0000gk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 00:38:00 +0000 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.a3.21bf2484 (4534) for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 19:37:04 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 19:37:04 EST Subject: Re: LF: QSO To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 10510 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit In a message dated 1/8/02 8:47:15 PM GMT Standard Time, gii3kev@netscapeonline.co.uk writes:


I would say a 2 sec dot solid xband qso to Canada 136/7025 khz is a RECORD plus a 60 sec dot qso that took less than one hour, compared to the past record of several days.
 
60 second dots Mal........I seem to recall it's been done with 3 second dots. You'll have to try harder than that or add another quarter wavelength to your errec...Sorry...........Tower.  No record books for you yet. :-  (using recently established shorthand for position of tongue)

Such a shame that CJD

73

David

David From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9066 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 00:30:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 00:30:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 7407 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 00:30:18 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 00:30:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16O6bn-0000ds-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 00:28:47 +0000 Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.36]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16O6bm-0000dl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 00:28:47 +0000 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.d2.11f6e508 (4534) for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 19:27:24 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 19:27:24 EST Subject: Re: LF: QSO To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 10510 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit In a message dated 1/8/02 8:46:38 PM GMT Standard Time, gii3kev@netscapeonline.co.uk writes:


> Dear LF Group,
>
> Another one worth mentioning is G3LDO and OH1TN's 73/136k QSO, which is
> probably the record LF/LF cross band QSO.

Hi Jim
Surely a xband Transatlantic QSO between Canada/USA to the UK is more of an
achievement
and especially those of us that have made several and not just a ONE OFF,
than one just up the road. I frequently work OH1TN at 589/589 each way
daytime or night.
I consider this a local qso to the UK.
Why single this particular qso out.
Does one have to be a RSGB member to get a mention ?? if so this distorts
the reality of what is really happening on LF by those that are not
members.
G3KEV







Watch out Jim.

Big KEV's personality transplant has been rejected.  (Can be judged by the frequency of the term " I " in each e-mail.)

David From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22888 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 00:21:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 00:21:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 22558 invoked from network); 9 Jan 2002 00:21:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jan 2002 00:21:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16O6QU-0000bz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 00:17:06 +0000 Received: from fep04.swip.net ([130.244.199.132] helo=fep04-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16O6QT-0000bt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 09 Jan 2002 00:17:05 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.12.83]) by fep04-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020109001617.KCKA21005.fep04-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 01:16:17 +0100 Message-ID: <001f01c198a2$e9a96040$530c97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020107152540.00aceaf0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <001801c19822$783c1cc0$eb16073e@dave> <00f201c19890$38d6d340$d19a17d2@steve> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Re: Band Plan Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 01:16:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi-ho I am convinced that "Gentlemen's agreement" will work much better than a band plan (provided that all involved are gentlemen...) New modes evolves almost every day. Let them prosper! The 2100Hz "wide" LF band does not need a band plan carved in stone! There is only a handful of operators on the LF band. Compare that to the >10e6 operators that are active on HF... Most, if not ALL, of the LF operators are connected to this mail reflector - it should be fairly easy to coordinate things - if the need should ever arise... Remember that occasional interferers on the band is only a phonecall/e-mail away and you can easily stop them when you have a very important message to convey via LF... :-) Interfering signals escape with the speed of light... (3e8m/s) Why bother about a band plan when it can be solved on a day-to-day basis? This mail reflector, on the other hand, seems to need some kind of a "band plan"... The S/N ratio is getting worse... What is most fun? Exploring radio or making rules (or perhaps throwing flames on an email reflector)? Hihi... :-) etc.. 73 de Johan SM6LKM (yes, I do love hand sent CW too) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18330 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 23:12:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 23:12:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 5697 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 23:12:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 23:12:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16O5Nu-0000NC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 23:10:22 +0000 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16O5Nt-0000N7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 23:10:21 +0000 Received: from host217-35-44-222.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.44.222] helo=dellboy) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16O5N8-0001RI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 23:09:34 +0000 Message-ID: <002501c19899$8a32fc60$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C39E6F2.6C1C0918@netscapeonline.co.uk> <004801c197ba$645b49a0$1700a8c0@home> <00f001c19890$374d2600$d19a17d2@steve> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: QSO records and other blether Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 23:09:30 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Steve. > > I think there was some confusion as to whether you were the wobbler or the > wobblee... > Ah, yes that could be misconstrued but do I really have to resort to those "emoticon" things? > > > > Let's make Sunday, "CW actrivity day" > > > > What exactly is the meaning of "actrivity". Does it mean engaging in a > "trivial activity" ? > > Not sure whether this is:- > > a) a new word as above > b)a freudian slip > c)a typo Actrivity is attractive activity.... or a typo... or a fried egg and chips... But a good idea? > > :-) :-) :-) > /:-( Dave. G3YXM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3877 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 22:01:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 22:01:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 17313 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 22:01:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 22:01:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16O4Fc-00009u-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:57:44 +0000 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16O4Fa-00009i-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:57:43 +0000 Received: from steve (ppp209.dyn154.pacific.net.au [210.23.154.209]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA11854 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 08:56:53 +1100 Message-ID: <00f201c19890$38d6d340$d19a17d2@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020107152540.00aceaf0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <001801c19822$783c1cc0$eb16073e@dave> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Band Plan Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 09:01:43 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G'day Dave, > > beneath them (happens all the time on Top Band..). > "All the time" - as in 100%. Surely an overstatement. > >Although in the bandplans CW is allowed anywhere > And there is the key. CW IS allowed anywhere. In all the discussion I don't see any opposition to bandplans which are utilised in the manner for which they are intended - to **minimise** interference. The opposition comes from those who don't like the *mis-use* of bandplans to keep one group out of another groups sandpit. There have been many instances where people has been harassed for daring to stray into someone's sandpit. This has turned bandplans in many cases into un-gentleman's agreements. > > 136 is of course an unusual case, primarily because of its narrow band. Rightly or > wrongly therefore it has been decided that a hard and fast bandplan is not to be > made. > Ok, it was decided *not* to be made. > > However the requirement to make it available to all users and (narrowband) > modes remains, and it is on that basis that it has been drawn up and submitted. > Hang on - now it *is* to be made ??? que pasa ? In any case, while I don't agree with some of your arguments, I am heartened by the fact that you have presented your arguments in a clear, logical and precise way. If all the responses to those who have strayed into the wrong segment were greeted with this kind of mature response, I wager that there would be more people voting for a bandplan. (P.S. I wish I was presented with the problem of overcrowding here in VK - at least I might have someone to QSO with in the 200km radius that I am able to get a signal out on LF) 73s Steve VK2ZTO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24293 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 22:01:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 22:01:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 16762 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 22:00:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 22:00:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16O4Fb-00009o-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:57:43 +0000 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16O4Fa-00009h-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:57:42 +0000 Received: from steve (ppp209.dyn154.pacific.net.au [210.23.154.209]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA11842 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 08:56:51 +1100 Message-ID: <00f001c19890$374d2600$d19a17d2@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C39E6F2.6C1C0918@netscapeonline.co.uk> <004801c197ba$645b49a0$1700a8c0@home> Subject: LF: Re: Re: QSO records and other blether Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 08:34:35 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G'day Dave, > > By the way, my remark about Andy's transmission was "tongue in cheek", I > think a problem we have on this reflector is that people are too ready to > take things literally and go off on a wobbler.... > I think there was some confusion as to whether you were the wobbler or the wobblee... > > Let's make Sunday, "CW actrivity day" > What exactly is the meaning of "actrivity". Does it mean engaging in a "trivial activity" ? Not sure whether this is:- a) a new word as above b)a freudian slip c)a typo :-) :-) :-) 73s Steve VK2ZTO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2745 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 22:00:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 22:00:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 7458 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 22:00:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 22:00:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16O4Fd-0000A0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:57:45 +0000 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16O4Fc-00009j-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:57:44 +0000 Received: from steve (ppp209.dyn154.pacific.net.au [210.23.154.209]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA11858 for ; Wed, 9 Jan 2002 08:56:55 +1100 Message-ID: <00f301c19890$39ba2e60$d19a17d2@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C39E6F2.6C1C0918@netscapeonline.co.uk> <007b01c197bb$2e08ed20$af9a17d2@steve> <007801c1983e$a58f22a0$7904fd3e@ian> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: QSO Date: Wed, 9 Jan 2002 09:02:38 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: No worries cobber ! > Ian to Steve Olney, > > Well said; good on yer mate! > > GI8AYZ/MI0AYZ > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21560 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 21:41:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 21:41:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 27909 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 21:41:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 21:41:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16O3yP-00005b-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:39:57 +0000 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16O3yO-00005W-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:39:56 +0000 Received: from [212.1.137.111] (helo=g4jnt) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 16O3ri-0000K2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:33:02 +0000 Message-ID: <001f01c1988c$ea3882e0$6f8901d4@g4jnt> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: GPS Coherent PSK Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 21:39:09 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: No transmission tonight, other jobs intervened. Continue tomorrow if anyone still interested ? Andy G4JNT From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 116 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 21:12:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 21:12:50 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29297 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 21:12:50 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 21:12:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16O3Wg-00000p-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:11:18 +0000 Received: from siaag1ae.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.7]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16O3Wf-00000f-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:11:18 +0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id QAA14787 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 16:09:59 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 16:09:41 -0500 From: "boffin1" Subject: LF: Phase meter? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200201081609_MC3-ED25-E6B3@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have belatedly seen your queery about phase. In the abstract their is no answer to your question for phase reqires a reference i.e the phase of something relative to ....??? (i.e another part of the wave). In the limit the phase must always close; Nature abhors odd bits of phase (see papers in J. Inst Phs and M.N.R.A.S. by a chap called Jennison, c1960) it is now known as the principle of Phase Closure. 73, Roger, G2AJV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18281 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 21:11:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 21:11:52 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28313 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 21:11:52 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 21:11:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16O3VF-0008WV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:09:49 +0000 Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.162]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16O3VE-0008WQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 21:09:48 +0000 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.a5.20d46899 (25306) for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 16:08:53 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 16:08:53 EST Subject: Re: LF: Receiving loop very close to the ground To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >I know that I can illuminate(to some extent) a light bulb by connecting it >to the hot side of the mains and grounding it to the earth indicating that >there can be significant current flow in the earth at 50/60 Hz. > >1) Can there also be significant flow at harmonic frequencies of the 50/60 >Hz? If so does this mean that an antenna low to the ground like mine, could >be picking up some of that energy that may be in the LF bands? >Would raising it to 5 feet help eliminate some of that noise? > >2) Does raising a loop have any effect on the received signal strength other >moving the antennas resonance point? > >3) Is it possible to shield one side of a loop antenna with say wire >fencing a few feet away to elimiinate noise coming from 1 direction and >thus making the unidirectional instead of bi-directional. > >After all are not we playing the game of signal against noise. To extend >the range of a given station should much consideration be given to >minimizing the undesirable noise, either man-made or natural ? Isn;t the >noise the limiting factor here? > >Please tell me if I am all wet... I will go get a towel > A dry washcloth should suffice, Paul. You surmise correctly on your first question. Earth currents can induce noise into a loop. Sometimes there's not too much effect, sometimes quite a bit. Moreover, the proximity of the partially-conducting earth affects such things as the depth of null you can obtain with the loop. Second question: Yes, height of the loop can make a difference in signal strength. It's not a linear relationship, but a bit of height may either get you away from sources of noise, or improve signal strength, or both. Third question, though: It is not effective to "shield" a loop in the manner you describe. Currents in the fence will couple either signal or noise--or both--into the loop, and also adversely affect its directional properties. It could eliminate your ability to achieve nulls in crucial directions. There are other ways, though, to utilize a loop in a unidirectional configuration rather than bidirectional. If you combine the output of a loop with the output of a whip, with provision for matching the signal levels of the two antennas, you can achieve quite a nice cardioid pattern in situations where that would be more useful than the two nulls of a figure-eight. To learn more about steerable nulls and phasing and matching of two antennas, I recommend visiting www.lwca.org and scrolling down to the lower half of the home page. Click the link for "On The Art of NDB DXing," and go to Chapters 4 and 5 for some very useful ideas. 73, John Davis From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25478 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 20:47:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 20:47:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8965 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 20:47:19 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 20:47:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16O36s-0008Q8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 20:44:38 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16O36q-0008Q3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 20:44:36 +0000 Received: from ldsas13-77-128-88.cw-visp.com ([212.137.128.88] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16O2vT-0004Ec-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 20:32:51 +0000 Message-ID: <3C3B411B.6C7E623D@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 18:57:32 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: QSO References: <171.6d32528.296c473a@aol.com> Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit  

G0MRF@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 1/7/02 6:24:34 PM GMT Standard Time, gii3kev@netscapeonline.co.uk writes:
 
 
1. Is there a  record of any two way qso's on 136 or 73 khz.
2. Xband qso's 136/HF real time.
3. Those using beacons on 136 khz and getting reports, which really
amount to short wave listeners reports.
These are 3 distinct categories and totally different in procedures
required for award purposes etc.
As far as I am concerned a 2 way qso or xband qso should take place at
one session and in the shortest time possible and not over days, weeks
putting bits and pieces of the callsign together to
claim a qso.
Some seem to be implying that being heard on beacon mode on 73 and 136 k
hz is the same as
a two way on the band or xband qso. Not as far as I am concerned.
de Mal/G3KEV
 
 
 
 

Hi Mal.

As most of this new communication technology is being invented as we go along, there are a lot of personal views about what is a QSO and what is not.

Regardless of mode a QSO means two way real time communications between two station including xband.
 
To apply the traditional values of CW contacts to QRSS, DFCW, MSK Low data rate PSK etc is difficult, perhaps even inappropriate.
Why is it still applicable on all the other amateur bands
 
When 136 was allocated, the Transatlantic Challenge in memory of the late Peter Bobek was created by The RSGB (UK)  DARC (Germany)  and Amrad (USA).
Events have been overtaken since then,  Peter Bobek was not even audible in the UK and I was the only signal that he could hear at one stage, never mind a qso.
 
A long debate on QSO exchanges continued throughout the intervening period but eventually applications were made  and accepted for some aspects of "The challenge".  The details of the QSO claims were considered by representatives of the three organisations and their decision to accept or reject a particular claim now forms the basis of  DX records on the LF bands.
Some so called QSO'S took several days to make by putting bits and pieces together to make up a callsign, hardly credible by the existing rules for a QSO including EME. Some were making the rules up as they went along.
 

I believe Dave G3YXM has all the 'firsts' between countries available on his web site.

Some firsts that took days to complete  and were dubious have been superseded by those that have achieved near normal  QSO'S xband Transatlantic at 2 sec dots solid copy.
 
 
You may be able to locate details of one way distance records from G3XDV's site.
I don't think there are records for cross band contacts where the contact does not represent some other form of  record.
I would say a 2 sec dot solid xband qso to Canada 136/7025 khz is a RECORD plus a 60 sec dot qso that took less than one hour, compared to the past record of several days.
 
 

I recall that the 73k two way record is from Peter G3LDO to GI  using standard CW.
Also from memory, 73k QSOs have been made from G GW GD GU.  Not sure about GM.  GJ has yet to be activated on 73 or 136.

(usual disclaimer about accuracy etc)
If I any of the above information is incorrect please let me know.

de     G3KEV
 
73

David  G0MRF
 

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6517 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 20:47:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 20:47:05 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5171 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 20:47:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 20:47:05 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16O36n-0008Pz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 20:44:33 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16O36m-0008Pu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 20:44:32 +0000 Received: from ldsas13-77-128-88.cw-visp.com ([212.137.128.88] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16O2vH-0004BM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 20:32:49 +0000 Message-ID: <3C3B3CFD.56B301ED@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 18:39:57 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: QSO References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020108140341.00b0c460@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz wrote: > Dear LF Group, > > Another one worth mentioning is G3LDO and OH1TN's 73/136k QSO, which is > probably the record LF/LF cross band QSO. Hi Jim Surely a xband Transatlantic QSO between Canada/USA to the UK is more of an achievement and especially those of us that have made several and not just a ONE OFF, than one just up the road. I frequently work OH1TN at 589/589 each way daytime or night. I consider this a local qso to the UK. Why single this particular qso out. Does one have to be a RSGB member to get a mention ?? if so this distorts the reality of what is really happening on LF by those that are not members. G3KEV > > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 660 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 19:13:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 19:13:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 23216 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 19:13:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 19:13:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16O1er-0008Do-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 19:11:37 +0000 Received: from mta2.snet.net ([204.60.203.71]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16O1eq-0008Dj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 19:11:36 +0000 Received: from cianciolo (97.79.252.64.snet.net [64.252.79.97] (may be forged)) by mta2.snet.net (8.12.1/8.12.1/SNET-smtp-1.1/D-1.1/O-1.1) with SMTP id g08JAc6o001429; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 14:10:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00cb01c19878$1b38f6a0$6a01a8c0@cianciolo> From: "PC" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, lowfer@mailman.qth.net References: <3C39E6F2.6C1C0918@netscapeonline.co.uk> <004801c197ba$645b49a0$1700a8c0@home> Subject: LF: Receiving loop very close to the ground Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 14:10:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Gentlemen, I have 3 sort of odd questions that have been on my mind for awhile Has anyone ever used a multiturn air core loop for LF that was mounted very close to the ground? I have built a very nice loop that I can tune fron 210 Khz to 73 Khz very nicely. Right now it is mounted on a few inches above the ground. Now I know that when raised to its final resting position 5 feet or so above the ground that it is likely to change freq. range sligthly. Here are my questions I know that I can illuminate(to some extent) a light bulb by connecting it to the hot side of the mains and grounding it to the earth indicating that there can be significant current flow in the earth at 50/60 Hz. 1) Can there also be significant flow at harmonic frequencies of the 50/60 Hz? If so does this mean that an antenna low to the ground like mine, could be picking up some of that energy that may be in the LF bands? Would raising it to 5 feet help eliminate some of that noise? 2) Does raising a loop have any effect on the received signal strength other moving the antennas resonance point? 3) Is it possible to shield one side of a loop antenna with say wire fencing a few feet away to elimiinate noise coming from 1 direction and thus making the unidirectional instead of bi-directional. After all are not we playing the game of signal against noise. To extend the range of a given station should much consideration be given to minimizing the undesirable noise, either man-made or natural ? Isn;t the noise the limiting factor here? Please tell me if I am all wet... I will go get a towel Thank you for information on these topics Paul A. Cianciolo W1VLF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29241 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 18:59:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 18:59:38 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 19651 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 18:59:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 18:59:39 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16O1R8-00089o-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 18:57:26 +0000 Received: from mailout11.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.85]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16O1R6-00089j-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 18:57:25 +0000 Received: from fwd04.sul.t-online.de by mailout11.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 16O1QA-0003Jt-01; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 19:56:26 +0100 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[193.159.25.238]) by fwd04.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16O1Q0-0MsMGOC; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 19:56:16 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020108111413.00a6cdf0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Subject: Re: LF: RE: GPS Coherent PSK Transmission / Mystery signal X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 19:56:16 +0100 Message-ID: <16O1Q0-0MsMGOC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz schrieb: > Dear LF Group, > > Got G4JNT's PSK signal sequence again, quite straightforward once I had > figured out it was 30 bits long. The spectrogram method is definitely > easier than the oscilloscope phase comparison since you don't have to watch > it constantly. The phase transitions are quite clear so long as the signal > is strong enough compared to the streaks caused by QRN - I used Spectrum > Lab with a resolution of about 0.04Hz (ie what I would use for QRSS30 > reception). With this, the signal appears as a steady line with a series of > "beads" on it corresponding to the phase transitions - think of a strong > QRSS signal, then fill in the spaces between dots with a carrier and you > get the idea. Wider resolution(ie shorter dot lengths) shows the > transitions more sharply if the signal is strong enough, but higher > resolution blurs the transitions too much.The display lags behind the > actual phase transitions by about 10 or 15s - I suppose it takes this long > for the FFT data to accumulate. > > I also investigated the "south coast mystery signal" - I got a carrier on > 136646.7Hz, drifting perhaps 0.1Hz low overnight. The bearing obtained with > a loop was roughly 55/235 degrees - which on my map is a line through my > QTH passing through Lowestoft to the NE, and Dorchester to the SW. The > signal level did not change by more than a couple of dB between night and > morning, so probably not a DX signal. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > Hi Jim, are ur SpecLab screenshots of the PSK signs somewhere in the internet? case not, can u send it to my Email adr? regards Uwe/dj8wx dj8wx@qsl.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11658 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 17:57:49 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 17:57:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 20646 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 17:57:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 17:57:49 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16O0Mt-0007zy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 17:48:59 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16O0Ms-0007zt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 17:48:58 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16O0M7-0007Vf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 17:48:11 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16O0M6-0003UT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 17:48:10 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020108173733.00a6cb00@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 17:47:19 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: 136 Xband In-reply-to: <3C3B2439.22E8010E@netscapeonline.co.uk> References: <3C3A8A13.94D80E23@ns.sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 16:54 08/01/2002 +0000, you wrote: >The 4 inv L's are spaced at >90 degrees from each other around the tower. >73 de Mal/G3KEV Dear Mal, So what holds up the other ends of the 4 inv L's? Must be quite a local landmark, your antenna. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8986 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 16:57:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 16:57:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 14541 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 16:57:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 16:57:15 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NzWd-0007s1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 16:54:59 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NzWc-0007rw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 16:54:59 +0000 Received: from ldsas13-77-128-118.cw-visp.com ([212.137.128.118] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16NzLE-0002se-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 16:43:14 +0000 Message-ID: <3C3B2439.22E8010E@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 16:54:17 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 136 Xband References: <3C3A8A13.94D80E23@ns.sympatico.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: john currie wrote: > HI I think I have had 4 xband QSOs. With: > G0MRF , OK1FIG, G3LDO, and G3KEV. I'm going on memory so if i > forget one please remind me 73 de John VE1ZJ Thanks John for the information, not too many with a QSO xband to VE and I think only myself to date to the USA. Surprised so few are attempting a QSO across the Atlantic, it is certainly more exciting having a real time qso than a beacon report. I hope you are getting on with your 136 TX, looking forward to a two way with you soon hi. I would like the USA boys to start up also on 136 TX then we could have some real excitement. I am already set up to RX QRS, DFCW, and normal CW at the appropriate speeds. I use the same antenna for both TX/RX this end, just waiting for the signals from North America. The antenna I have been using for the recent Transatlantic QSO'S consists of 4 inverted L's supported by a lattice tower at 105 ft high. Each L is 105 ft vertical and each one has a horizontal top section of 300 ft. The 4 vertical bottom ends converge to a common feed point 4 ft above ground, connected to about 400 micro henry loading coil and has a small series coil to ground used for resonating and fine tuning to get a 1:1 SWR. Ground Radials consist of several 300 ft insulated wires, some connected at the far end to sheep fencing. All the wire for antennas and radials is 2.5 mm insulated. The 4 inv L's are spaced at 90 degrees from each other around the tower. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 393 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 16:44:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 16:44:45 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1163 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 16:44:45 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 16:44:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NzDr-0007oN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 16:35:35 +0000 Received: from mta15-acc.tin.it ([212.216.176.46] helo=fep15-svc.tin.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NzDq-0007oI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 16:35:34 +0000 Received: from base ([212.171.197.166]) by fep15-svc.tin.it (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with SMTP id <20020108163429.IUX24505.fep15-svc.tin.it@base> for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 17:34:29 +0100 From: "VALERIO" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 135921 Hz Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 17:28:04 +0100 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.1.99] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <02010817280400.07739@base> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Again this evening i will be on 135921 kHz. '73 IK5ZPV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 978 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 16:21:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 16:21:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 5781 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 16:21:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 16:21:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Nyt9-0007l0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 16:14:11 +0000 Received: from mail6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Nyt7-0007kv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 16:14:10 +0000 Received: from modem-22.passer-angel.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.47.22] helo=g3aqc) by mail6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 16NysM-00007r-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 16:13:22 +0000 Message-ID: <000e01c1985f$66c84300$05e9fea9@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Transatlantic QSO's Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 16:12:39 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
I will transmit again tonight from 2130 until 2330 on 135,921.5Hz  using
30sec dot DFCW but I will listen on 7025 +/- for replies.  73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22547 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 14:48:00 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 14:48:00 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28025 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 14:47:51 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 14:47:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NxTa-0007Xb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 14:43:42 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NxTZ-0007XW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 14:43:41 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16NxSo-0002ub-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 14:42:54 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16NxSo-0006HK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 14:42:54 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020108140341.00b0c460@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 14:42:06 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: QSO In-reply-to: <171.6d32528.296c473a@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Another one worth mentioning is G3LDO and OH1TN's 73/136k QSO, which is probably the record LF/LF cross band QSO. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 528 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 13:39:11 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 13:39:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21301 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 13:39:08 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 13:39:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NwRU-0007N9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 13:37:28 +0000 Received: from tomts9.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.53] helo=tomts9-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NwRT-0007N4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 13:37:28 +0000 Received: from server1.sympatico.ca ([216.209.110.72]) by tomts9-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020108133638.TSLY22140.tomts9-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1.sympatico.ca> for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 08:36:38 -0500 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020108082038.00a833d0@POP2.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1aemm59@POP2.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 08:36:35 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Larry Kayser" Subject: Re: LF: Bandplans In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.2.20020108100852.00a194f0@mail.pncl.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings Walter.... >............By all means let's have a RECOMMENDED bandplan but to start >moaning when somebody occupies the "wrong" slot for an hour or two in an >otherwise empty band is a bit rich. I used to have a rather benign reaction to band planning, now I am a great deal more sensitive to it. I have watched the American FCC Riley H. seemingly bringing bandplanning forward as having official sanction the Gov't will enforce. Now on a good day Gov't is barely acceptable here and when I see this going on the warning bells start going off in a very loud clammer. My reaction is further enhanced when I look back on the Packet Radio when we started that back in the mid 1970's. We had three different systems here in Canada some years before the TAPR crowd started the TNC-1 and later the TNC-2 with its variant of the X-25 protocol. Right after that got rolling in the early 80's the "lets bring some standards and planning to this process" people entered the scene and what became the huge bubble of Packet Radio came and then very naturally died from lack of further innovation. The innovation was killed by the "do gooders" and frankly I have very little time for that crowd. Our three Canadian packet radio system were able to talk to each other, we even had a, what became later known as a Worm Hole, a satellite link from Ottawa to Vancouver interconnecting two very different packet radio systems, this was again, some years before TAPR had its brain wave for the TNC-1. My position is quite simple, until I see that Band Planning is really benign I am basically against it, amateur radio is not in good health, we desperately need innovation. Innovation is the only way forward for amateur radio as I see it, anything that gets in the way of innovation is just one more nail in the coffin. Since the packet radio experience I have tended to move on quickly when the Standards and the Band Planners get into the act. I hope there is room in LF for more innovation and not more regimentation. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14150 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 13:36:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 13:36:10 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18571 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 13:36:09 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 13:36:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NwO0-0007MM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 13:33:52 +0000 Received: from ns3.swh.sk ([192.108.125.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NwNw-0007MH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 13:33:49 +0000 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes.swh.sk [192.108.125.60]) by ns3.swh.sk (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g08DWik09352 for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 14:32:44 +0100 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id OAA18546 for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 14:32:36 +0100 (MET) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 14:32:33 +0100 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E0333C15F@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re: New band plan Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 14:32:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi LF-ers...
 
    Only for information. I have worked Szigy YO2IS two times, but always on 137.7 (yes, in QRSS  part of the band), because between 136.0 and 137.5 is very strong QRM in Szigy's QTH Timisoara (loc. KN05PS). In a different part of Europe is a different QRM. We still don't have to much informations from eastern Europe. Who knows how the band looks like in Russia, Ukraine or Greece. Bandplan is OK, but if the local conditions don't allow you make a QSO, you may arrange a sked with the station in another part of the band. Szigy YO2IS heard me cq-ing on 136.9 with good signal, but in a lot of QRM. He only transmitt "QSY 137.7" and we had to move up. Boys, it's up to you.
 
73 de Rich OM2TW
-----Original Message-----
From: Alberto di Bene [mailto:dibene@usa.net]
Sent: Tuesday, January 08, 2002 2:08 PM
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Re: New band plan

DL4YHF@aol.com wrote:
Hi Alberto and Group,

Only 800 Hz for CW, and that in the worst part of the band (QRM, Luxembourg Effect, DCF39, DLF splatter // intermod) ?

No thanks...
[...]

Hi Wolf and the group,
   my proposal was just meant for this : provoke discussions... and apparently the goal was met...:-)
All in all, my position is congruent (with some provisos) with those of John Sexton, James Moritz,
Walter Blanchard and Steve Olney...

73  Alberto  I2PHD
 

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5848 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 13:12:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 13:12:12 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26425 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 13:12:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 13:12:04 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Nw0V-0007Hm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 13:09:35 +0000 Received: from e31.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.129]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Nw0U-0007Hh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 13:09:34 +0000 Received: from westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com [9.99.140.22]) by e31.co.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA170760 for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 08:05:29 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss9.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.75]) by westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g08D8Is98644 for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 06:08:19 -0700 Message-ID: <3C3AEF39.D75FD0D6@usa.net> Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 14:08:09 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: New band plan References: <94.1f76f600.296b4437@aol.com> Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: DL4YHF@aol.com wrote:
Hi Alberto and Group,

Only 800 Hz for CW, and that in the worst part of the band (QRM, Luxembourg Effect, DCF39, DLF splatter // intermod) ?

No thanks...
[...]

Hi Wolf and the group,
   my proposal was just meant for this : provoke discussions... and apparently the goal was met...:-)
All in all, my position is congruent (with some provisos) with those of John Sexton, James Moritz,
Walter Blanchard and Steve Olney...

73  Alberto  I2PHD
  From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5692 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 13:03:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 13:03:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16932 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 13:03:23 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 13:03:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NvsD-0007FA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 13:01:01 +0000 Received: from imo-d01.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NvsC-0007En-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 13:01:00 +0000 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.171.6d32528 (4418) for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 07:59:38 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <171.6d32528.296c473a@aol.com> Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 07:59:38 EST Subject: Re: LF: QSO To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 10510 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit In a message dated 1/7/02 6:24:34 PM GMT Standard Time, gii3kev@netscapeonline.co.uk writes:


1. Is there a  record of any two way qso's on 136 or 73 khz.
2. Xband qso's 136/HF real time.
3. Those using beacons on 136 khz and getting reports, which really
amount to short wave listeners reports.
These are 3 distinct categories and totally different in procedures
required for award purposes etc.
As far as I am concerned a 2 way qso or xband qso should take place at
one session and in the shortest time possible and not over days, weeks
putting bits and pieces of the callsign together to
claim a qso.
Some seem to be implying that being heard on beacon mode on 73 and 136 k
hz is the same as
a two way on the band or xband qso. Not as far as I am concerned.
de Mal/G3KEV






Hi Mal.

As most of this new communication technology is being invented as we go along, there are a lot of personal views about what is a QSO and what is not.
To apply the traditional values of CW contacts to QRSS, DFCW, MSK Low data rate PSK etc is difficult, perhaps even inappropriate.
When 136 was allocated, the Transatlantic Challenge in memory of the late Peter Bobek was created by The RSGB (UK)  DARC (Germany)  and Amrad (USA).
A long debate on QSO exchanges continued throughout the intervening period but eventually applications were made  and accepted for some aspects of "The challenge".  The details of the QSO claims were considered by representatives of the three organisations and their decision to accept or reject a particular claim now forms the basis of  DX records on the LF bands.

I believe Dave G3YXM has all the 'firsts' between countries available on his web site.
You may be able to locate details of one way distance records from G3XDV's site.
I don't think there are records for cross band contacts where the contact does not represent some other form of  record.

I recall that the 73k two way record is from Peter G3LDO to GI  using standard CW.
Also from memory, 73k QSOs have been made from G GW GD GU.  Not sure about GM.  GJ has yet to be activated on 73 or 136.

(usual disclaimer about accuracy etc)

73

David  G0MRF

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11431 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 12:22:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 12:22:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 15281 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 12:22:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 12:22:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NvDm-00079L-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 12:19:14 +0000 Received: from mta5-svc.virgin.net ([62.253.164.45]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NvDl-00079G-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 12:19:13 +0000 Received: from ian ([62.253.4.121]) by mta5-svc.virgin.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20020108121822.FZTF294.mta5-svc.virgin.net@ian> for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 12:18:22 +0000 Message-ID: <007801c1983e$a58f22a0$7904fd3e@ian> From: "Ian Kyle" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C39E6F2.6C1C0918@netscapeonline.co.uk> <007b01c197bb$2e08ed20$af9a17d2@steve> Subject: LF: Re: Re: QSO Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 12:13:46 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Ian to Steve Olney, Well said; good on yer mate! GI8AYZ/MI0AYZ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15138 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 12:06:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 12:06:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 16059 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 12:06:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 12:06:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Nuz5-00075S-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 12:04:03 +0000 Received: from mail1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.18]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Nuz1-00075N-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 12:04:01 +0000 Received: from modem-1.draugluin.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.158.1] helo=g3aqc) by mail1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 16NuyD-0005sf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 12:03:10 +0000 Message-ID: <001001c1983c$72332a20$05e9fea9@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: X Band QSOs Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 12:02:38 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi All,
 I am currently transmitting 10sec dot QRSS on 72.401kHz,looking on 137.700-800
(3sec QRSS OK) for X band contact. 73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11005 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 12:04:47 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 12:04:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29901 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 12:04:44 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 12:04:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Nuwb-000759-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 12:01:29 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NuwZ-000754-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 12:01:28 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16Nuvo-0006kE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 12:00:40 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16Nuvo-0001DW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 12:00:40 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020108111413.00a6cdf0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 11:54:43 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: RE: GPS Coherent PSK Transmission / Mystery signal In-reply-to: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB993D@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.go v.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Got G4JNT's PSK signal sequence again, quite straightforward once I had figured out it was 30 bits long. The spectrogram method is definitely easier than the oscilloscope phase comparison since you don't have to watch it constantly. The phase transitions are quite clear so long as the signal is strong enough compared to the streaks caused by QRN - I used Spectrum Lab with a resolution of about 0.04Hz (ie what I would use for QRSS30 reception). With this, the signal appears as a steady line with a series of "beads" on it corresponding to the phase transitions - think of a strong QRSS signal, then fill in the spaces between dots with a carrier and you get the idea. Wider resolution(ie shorter dot lengths) shows the transitions more sharply if the signal is strong enough, but higher resolution blurs the transitions too much.The display lags behind the actual phase transitions by about 10 or 15s - I suppose it takes this long for the FFT data to accumulate. I also investigated the "south coast mystery signal" - I got a carrier on 136646.7Hz, drifting perhaps 0.1Hz low overnight. The bearing obtained with a loop was roughly 55/235 degrees - which on my map is a line through my QTH passing through Lowestoft to the NE, and Dorchester to the SW. The signal level did not change by more than a couple of dB between night and morning, so probably not a DX signal. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23764 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 11:24:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 11:24:55 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22883 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 11:24:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 11:24:54 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NuIz-0006xN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 11:20:33 +0000 Received: from mailout06.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NuIy-0006xI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 11:20:32 +0000 Received: from fwd01.sul.t-online.de by mailout06.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 16NuIB-0006CR-00; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 12:19:43 +0100 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.156.6.220]) by fwd01.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16NuI7-0OOg2UC; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 12:19:39 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C39E6F2.6C1C0918@netscapeonline.co.uk> <004801c197ba$645b49a0$1700a8c0@home> Subject: LF: Re: QSO records and other blether X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 12:19:39 +0100 Message-ID: <16NuI7-0OOg2UC@fwd01.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave Pick schrieb: > Mal et al. > > I have "The Matrix" on my web-site, it doesn't cater for 1-ways and I've not > added many cross-bands but it's supposed to be a record of the first QSO > between each pair of countries. If anyone knows of any that aren't recorded, > please let me know. > > It's at http://www.wireless.org.uk/matrix.htm > > By the way, my remark about Andy's transmission was "tongue in cheek", I > think a problem we have on this reflector is that people are too ready to > take things literally and go off on a wobbler.... > Too many colloquialisms? > > A new campaign! > Let's make Sunday, "CW actrivity day", people listen then and if they hear > nothing they won't bother to get on the band..... > > 73. > Dave > G3YXM. > > > > Hi All > > Is there anyone out there keeping any records about TA activity and > > countries worked by LF operators. > > > > > > Hi Dave, hint: ur logbook "stations worked..." contains DK8WX instead of DJ8WX. regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28385 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 11:00:01 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 11:00:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29774 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 10:59:59 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 10:59:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NttE-0006qa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 10:53:56 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NttD-0006qV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 10:53:55 +0000 Received: from blanch.pncl.co.uk (140.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.140]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g08Ar7910379 for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 10:53:07 GMT Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020108100852.00a194f0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 10:22:48 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: Bandplans MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: For Heaven's sake there's enough regulation and self-appointed policemen in this world without burdening ourselves with even more! By all means let's have a RECOMMENDED bandplan but to start moaning when somebody occupies the "wrong" slot for an hour or two in an otherwise empty band is a bit rich. Like the guy in the "Fast Show" who's sitting completely alone in an empty football stadium and when somebody else comes in and sits down a few rows away tells him "Can't sit there, mate, it's taken". Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2158 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 10:52:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 10:52:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26918 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 10:52:20 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 10:52:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Ntov-0006ow-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 10:49:29 +0000 Received: from [204.202.140.198] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Ntou-0006ok-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 10:49:28 +0000 Received: from gomailjtp05 ([10.212.0.165]) by mta06.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GPM00DPB8NI1X@mta06.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 02:47:42 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 02:47:40 -0800 (PST) From: "John Sexton" Subject: LF: RE: GPS Coherent PSK Transmission To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <2435607.1010486860862.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Andy, Yes I should have realised that since it was 30 bits long, the start would be at the 15 min points, not at odd 7.5 minute points. However I saw your transmission start at about 18.53 (or was it 17.53) so perhaps you were a half-cycle out?? I didn't keep a record so I can't check. I used Jim's method No. 1, using Argo and looking for the beads on the line. There is a small problem with timing however, since the FFT introduces a delay. This appeared to be of the order of 1 bit, which I thought I had allowed for, but perhaps it was 2 bits or approx 0 bits, hence my record slipping 1 bit. Of course if you don't start at the correct zero, the probability of inversion depends on the ratio of 1's to 0's in the sequence. Anyway great fun. It is interesting that there are alternative simple ways of decoding modulations for which one does not have the standard equipment. This sounds like a new fun area. 73 John, G4CNN ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8053 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 10:39:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 10:39:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10353 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 10:39:09 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 10:39:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NtaI-0006n7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 10:34:22 +0000 Received: from [204.202.140.198] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NtaH-0006mx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 10:34:21 +0000 Received: from gomailjtp05 ([10.212.0.165]) by mta06.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GPM00CD07RCWX@mta06.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 02:28:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 02:28:22 -0800 (PST) From: "John Sexton" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Mystery signal To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <3263269.1010485703003.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Johan, I logged a carrier at 135.0 in January 2001. There was some sort of modulation but it was very weak. Trying each of my two loop antennas (one E-W and one N-S) I found it to be stronger in the East West direction. I wondered whether it was perhaps an IMP of MSF and HBG. 73 John, G4CNN -----Original Message----- From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon Jan 07 13:14:01 PST 2002 Subject: LF: Re: Mystery signal >Hi> >Tonight I found a strong signal around 135.0 kHz which I have never >noticed before. It has a strange "random flutter" sound as if it was >"soft PSK". There is a lot of Luxembourg effect on the signal, even >more than on the (much stronger) DCF39 carrier. > >The strongest "ghost" modulation comes from Radio Sweden 1179 >which makes me believe that the mystery signal is coming from >south or southwest (flying through Radio Swedens "modulator cloud")... > >Does anyone know the origin of this signal? > >73 >Johan SM6LKM > ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6617 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 09:59:35 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 09:59:35 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5070 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 09:59:26 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 09:59:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Nsz0-0006fk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 09:55:50 +0000 Received: from ns3.swh.sk ([192.108.125.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Nsyy-0006fP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 09:55:49 +0000 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes.swh.sk [192.108.125.60]) by ns3.swh.sk (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g089sfk27874 for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 10:54:41 +0100 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA00635 for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 10:54:33 +0100 (MET) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 10:54:30 +0100 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E0333C157@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: 136kHz in Poland...and Eastern Europe. Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 10:54:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi LF-ers.... I'm very often in northern Slovakia about 10km from Polish border, so I have an interest for the LF activity from SP. I just received an E-mail from HQ PZK (Polish Radioamateur Association). 136kHz is still not alowed in Poland, but the request has been send to the Polish PTT and it's still in process. I'm interesting to step up the LF activity in eastern Europe. As I know, only few stations are active (YO2IS and HA6PC). 136kHz is alowed in some countries (Croatia, Ukraine, Russia, Estonia) but still no activities. In that reason I agree with Dave G3YXM "...Let's make Sunday, "CW actrivity day", people listen then and if they hear nothing they won't bother to get on the band.....". But to increase the activity in that part of Europe, you must have a good CW signal around whole Europe. I'm in the central Europe, but it's the corner of the LF activities. Most of the stations are from Germany and UK and the majority of all my worked stations are more than 700km faraway. If you put the station in the air from UK, you may work a lot of stations in range about 300km in a few days. But let's try here, I have only 3 LF stations in around 250km ! I have some friends who are often on 136kHz and listening for the stations spoted in the DX-cluster. On the average top band antenna they have a possibility to hear only a few stations with a very good signal. I was a very active station on 160m and I know that working DX stations with low power (100W and less) on top band is waste of time. The same count here. The only way, how to increase the activity on the band and bring some more hams between us, is the way of increasing the power and growing our antennas. 73 de Rich OM2TW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15154 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 09:29:17 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 09:29:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8474 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 09:29:16 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 09:29:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NsWS-0006ai-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 09:26:20 +0000 Received: from ns3.swh.sk ([192.108.125.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NsWJ-0006ab-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 09:26:11 +0000 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes.swh.sk [192.108.125.60]) by ns3.swh.sk (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g089Owk25645 for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 10:24:58 +0100 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA27900 for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 10:24:49 +0100 (MET) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 10:24:46 +0100 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E0333C155@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: Distance VE1Z<->OM2TW Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 10:24:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi John and all LF-ers... The distance between VE1ZJ and me is 6024km. It's the John's farthest Eu reception. 73 de Rich OM2TW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22525 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 09:06:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 09:06:09 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 21339 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 09:06:08 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 09:06:08 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Ns7D-0006Uw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 09:00:15 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Ns7C-0006Ur-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 09:00:14 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id JAA22585; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 09:09:00 GMT Received: (qmail 27838 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 09:48:42 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 09:48:42 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id JAA25510; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 09:18:50 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma025496; Tue, 8 Jan 02 09:18:26 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 09:05:15 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 08:59:03 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB993D@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: GPS Coherant PSK Transmission Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 08:58:54 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Oh yes, forgot to say it was 30 bits long this time :-( Transmitted from 1800z through to 0745z The sequence I sent was 010100010110101001010101011101 Which is not what you received, but : Inverting this sequence gives : 101011101001010110101010100010. Then slipping it by 14 bits (denoted here by the decimal point) and with spaces added every 5 for clarity as you do : 01101 01010 10001 0.1010 11101 00101 Which is spot on ! Considering I "Forgot" to mention the longer sequence, you presumably synchronised to a (now non valid) 7.5 minute interval, getting the wrong phase and sequence starting point. An absolute classic demonstration of the necessity for precise timing and coding information needed for fully coherent transmission ! How did you copy this - spectrum spread at transitions, or by absolute phase indication ? Andy G4JNT -----Original Message----- From: John Sexton [mailto:computernetworks@go.com] Sent: 07 January 2002 19:32 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: GPS Coherant PSK Transmission Hi Andy, Tonight's sequence appears to be 15 x 2 bit symbols: 01101 01010 10001 01010 11101 00101 -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25977 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 09:04:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 09:04:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 19898 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 09:04:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 09:04:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Ns3P-0006UH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 08:56:19 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Ns3O-0006UC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 08:56:18 +0000 Received: from host62-7-22-235.btinternet.com ([62.7.22.235] helo=dave) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16Ns2b-0007RE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 08:55:29 +0000 Message-ID: <001801c19822$783c1cc0$eb16073e@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020107152540.00aceaf0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Band Plan Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 08:55:52 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Bandplans are an attempt to all users of a band to operate in harmony without causing each other interference. I would hope you would see these comments in that light! For instance, on the hf bands it is difficult to have a CW QSO underneath an SSB one (although some SSB ops seem quite happy to chat on totally oblivious to the CW QSO beneath them (happens all the time on Top Band..). Hence the historic division of the bands into CW and SSB segments. Although in the bandplans CW is allowed anywhere in the band (to allow dual mode QSOs), in practice all CW activity is confined to the CW only parts. The original CW segments have narrowed over the years to accomodate the incoming digital modes. Incidently the announcement of a data beacon on 1843 (admittedly low power) raised consternation in Top Band qrp ops - 'why do they always choose the QRP frequencies?'. 136 is of course an unusual case, primarily because of its narrow band. Rightly or wrongly therefore it has been decided that a hard and fast bandplan is not to be made. However the requirement to make it available to all users and (narrowband) modes remains, and it is on that basis that it has been drawn up and submitted. The biggest problem the CW users face on 136 is receiver bandwidth. Many of us, and certainly the casual listener we are trying to encourage to get interested in the band, will have a 350Hz (or even wider) CW filter with not particularly sharp skirts. Some operators have narrower CW filters and/or dsp filtering in their receivers - but probably none of them have anything better than 50Hz with square edges! With a simple split, CW in the lower section and other modes in the upper section, this is not a problem - though clearly more bandwidth is required to fit the same number of CW stations than their narrowband counterparts. In general that split works well, and with the Ropex around 136.55 has led to the current CW usage area. However with typical receive filters the presence of strong QRSS stations at 135.922 ish limits the usable bandwidth, and if CFH is on on 137.0 there is a relatively small segment in between that can be used. I am prepared to accept the need to use the lower segment for QRSS, but would be disappointed if activity moved any higher - in fact when SXV is off (as it seems to be most of the time at present, but that may change) there would be a case of moving back down. I would suggest also that the bandplan data mode segment (137.4-137.6 as it was in the original bandplan) is virtually unused. Surely that could be put into use (although presumably not for transatlantic - but there again CFH is not on much these days). With most of these new modes requiring less than 1Hz of bandwidth (even the seven dot measle stuff) there is plenty of room there. Activity is perhaps not as low as some would suggest. Among stations heard yesterday (a weekday) included F6BWO, DF3FDO, OH1TN - Reino called CQ several times, failed to hear me calling (understandable!) then went away. Last year he would have had a pileup. Also heard F6BWO on QRSS on 137.1..... 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25455 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 01:07:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 01:07:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6740 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 01:07:47 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 01:07:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NkTM-0005fp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 00:50:36 +0000 Received: from smtp1.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.91] helo=mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NkTL-0005fk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 00:50:35 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.6.53]) by mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 20:50:59 -0400 Message-ID: <3C3A892E.324D14F1@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 00:52:46 -0500 From: "john currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic QSOs References: <000e01c197a8$6a314bc0$05e9fea9@g3aqc> Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi Laurie,  See you on screen but  no decent 20 m here . Also bad condx Can you listen tmw on 7025? 73 de john VE1ZJ.

Laurie Mayhead wrote:

Tonight from 2130 to 2330utc I will transmit 30sec DFCW on 135,921.5Hz looking for replies on 14030 +/- 5 kHz. At this speed my overs should take 20/30 mins andany opening should be long enough for at least one QSO. 73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24774 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 01:07:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 01:07:26 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 12268 invoked from network); 8 Jan 2002 01:07:26 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jan 2002 01:07:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NkXW-0005g1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 00:54:54 +0000 Received: from smtp1.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.91] helo=mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NkXV-0005fw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 08 Jan 2002 00:54:53 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.6.53]) by mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 20:54:47 -0400 Message-ID: <3C3A8A13.94D80E23@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 08 Jan 2002 00:56:35 -0500 From: "john currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 136 Xband Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: HI I think I have had 4 xband QSOs. With: G0MRF , OK1FIG, G3LDO, and G3KEV. I'm going on memory so if i forget one please remind me 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13136 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 23:10:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 23:10:38 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16101 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 23:10:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 23:10:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Nilm-0005MM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 23:01:30 +0000 Received: from out4.prserv.net ([32.97.166.34] helo=prserv.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Nill-0005MH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 23:01:29 +0000 Received: from ieee.org (slip-32-102-157-138.md.us.prserv.net[32.102.157.138]) by prserv.net (out4) with SMTP id <2002010723003420400ff8gge>; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 23:00:35 +0000 Message-ID: <3C3A2A4E.E0A778EA@ieee.org> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 18:07:58 -0500 From: "Andre Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: QSO records and other blether References: <3C39E6F2.6C1C0918@netscapeonline.co.uk> <004801c197ba$645b49a0$1700a8c0@home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave Pick wrote: > By the way, my remark about Andy's transmission was "tongue in cheek", I > think a problem we have on this reflector is that people are too ready to > take things literally and go off on a wobbler.... maybe a sprinkling of :-) and would help the readers perceive the temporary location of the tongue ? :-) 73 André From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17829 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 21:25:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 21:25:55 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21398 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 21:25:47 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 21:25:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NhF1-000571-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 21:23:35 +0000 Received: from europa.your-site.com ([140.186.45.14]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NhF0-00056u-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 21:23:35 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.180.100]) by europa.your-site.com ; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 16:22:39 -0500 Message-ID: <3C3A119A.8DCFEC58@att.net> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 21:22:34 +0000 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 135921 Hz References: <02010721042000.11945@base> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Valerio, I'm set up to watch 135.921 to .924 right now at 21:20. My computer will be automatically posting screen captures at: http://www.gostanly.com/w4dex/135kHz.jpg My sunset is 22:31 UTC. Hope to see your signal. Dexter VALERIO wrote: > > On the other side of the Atlantic, please look at my transmission starting at > 21:00 untill 23:00 on 135921 Hz > > '73 IK5ZPV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7372 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 21:19:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 21:19:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 16325 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 21:19:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 21:19:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Nh71-00055e-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 21:15:19 +0000 Received: from fep03.swip.net ([130.244.199.131] helo=fep03-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Nh6z-00055Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 21:15:17 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.13.170]) by fep03-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20020107211424.DCTM2722.fep03-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 22:14:24 +0100 Message-ID: <001e01c197c0$55eb8d20$aa0d97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4443472.1010421035611.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> Subject: LF: Re: Mystery signal Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 22:14:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060300040700000909030908" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060300040700000909030908 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Tonight I found a strong signal around 135.0 kHz which I have never noticed before. It has a strange "random flutter" sound as if it was "soft PSK". There is a lot of Luxembourg effect on the signal, even more than on the (much stronger) DCF39 carrier. The strongest "ghost" modulation comes from Radio Sweden 1179 which makes me believe that the mystery signal is coming from south or southwest (flying through Radio Swedens "modulator cloud")... 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(212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 20:36:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 9902 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 20:36:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 20:36:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NgRr-0004xy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 20:32:47 +0000 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NgRp-0004xt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 20:32:45 +0000 Received: from steve (ppp175.dyn154.pacific.net.au [210.23.154.175]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA20684 for ; Tue, 8 Jan 2002 07:31:54 +1100 Message-ID: <007b01c197bb$2e08ed20$af9a17d2@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C39E6F2.6C1C0918@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: QSO Date: Tue, 8 Jan 2002 07:37:38 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G'day Mal, I must admit you DO have a unique sense of humour !!! Either that or the virus program I run now has cleared the BIG KEV virus off my machine. Up until just recently any machine generated mode was referred to in all YOUR posts as "lazy man's CW". Apparently now your posts are not being corrupted by the BIG KEV virus and no longer contain those "lazy man's CW" references. Or have you become "lazy" too ? Perhaps I should refer to you as BIG LAZY KEV :-) G'day All, As far as the bandplan for the UK band. I can't comment on the technical aspects of it as I live in a relatively unpolluted environment down-under RF wise (but don't worry - we are working our way to world standard in this regard). However, I think I can comment on the attitude displayed on this reflector. I was going to say something like "come on girls!!!", but you know I wouldn't do that as it is PI and besides, it insults the maturity of that half of the population. As far as I am concerned our bunch of people who inhabit these areas of interest are no different from the general population in spite of the notion by some that we are "special". As such we are subject to the whole range of attitudes, behaviours and follies of the general population (at least that is my excuse for my behaviour :-). There are the pioneers, the curious, the experimenters, the casual passerbys, the detractors, the nay-sayers, the certificate hunters, the smiley-stamp hunters, the rule-makers and the self-appointed guardians of right. Also there are those who have the temerity to be overcome by the sheer fun of what we do and wander into the nice neat world of others from time to time. This kind of "turf war" bickering is infantile in a world where we are subjected to all kinds of challenges to our beloved hobby from commercial interests for spectrum space. All the energy spent beating each other over the head about where the line is drawn in the dirt in the playground will all be wasted when we wake up and find there is no longer a playground. My observation of "gentleman's agreements" is they have often been hijacked be a vocal minority to further their own interests. Last time I checked CW has a free run to virtually all the spectrum space on the conventional HF bands, while other modes are cramped into smaller sections. Unless things have changed drastically, the same large-scale occupation of the UK band exists for CW now. To suggest that CW proponents have been "run off the band" is ludicrous. I think it is more a case of the shoe being on the other foot. Of course, one response to others showing interest in other modes other than your own favourite mode is to pack up your marbles and go off in a huff. Or you can harass, harangue and privately abuse (by email) those who would dare to experiment with other less familiar modes (until, of course, you have decided that the time is right for you to adopt that mode). This is standard procedure for the managerial or born-to-rule types. Pour scorn on the efforts of others when they are trying to develop new ideas and then when you are good and ready, adopt the those same efforts as your own discovery, and then pour scorn again. In the submissions to gain access to these LF bands over there, did the weight of argument lie with engaging in a mode which (for good reason) has existed for ages, or did it lie with expressing a desire to experiment and develop new modes (at least at an amateur level) ? To get my authorisation I had to argue that I was engaging in new work. Ironically, when I was pressed (I was refused authorisation initially), I didn't cite the UK example to support my argument that new work could still be done - I cited the US LowFers and Europeans as examples of the experimentation that could be done. This apparently won the day for me. Interestingly, there have been those who have tried to hold back the pioneers going off into the experimental wilderness giving all sorts of reasons why those experimenters should not venture outside the nice neat world which these nay-sayers are comfortable with. After those pioneers have weathered the trials of establishing a pathway, those same detractors come along and drive full-speed down the pathway cleared for them by the pioneers and now detract the pioneering efforts by saying "I did that journey in half the time you did" Huh??? In any case, I think in an experimental arena in which we are supposed to operate, the ultimate criteria is "natural selection". If a mode is superior as judged by the majority of users then that mode will prevail to such time as something else shows promise (or, heaven forbid, just be fun). At the same time those who want to experiment with other modes should be allowed to do this with mature tolerance. I am sure I have an article somewhere which details, from memory, the work way back in 1997 of Andy (G4JNT) and Peter (G3PLX) using 25mHz BW on 73kHz. They had apparently pioneered narrowband stuff and hopefully will continue to pioneer in the future despite opposition from some quarters. (P.S. you would think with having had bushfires on three sides for nigh on two weeks I would be wary of throwing petrol onto the reflector fire - but then I didn't ever claim to be smart :-) 73s Steve VK2ZTO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9175 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 20:36:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 20:36:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 9821 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 20:36:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 20:36:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NgS5-0004y8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 20:33:01 +0000 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NgS4-0004y3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 20:33:00 +0000 Received: from host217-35-44-222.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.44.222] helo=dellboy) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16NgRH-0006jU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 20:32:11 +0000 Message-ID: <004801c197ba$645b49a0$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C39E6F2.6C1C0918@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: QSO records and other blether Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 20:32:10 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mal et al. I have "The Matrix" on my web-site, it doesn't cater for 1-ways and I've not added many cross-bands but it's supposed to be a record of the first QSO between each pair of countries. If anyone knows of any that aren't recorded, please let me know. It's at http://www.wireless.org.uk/matrix.htm By the way, my remark about Andy's transmission was "tongue in cheek", I think a problem we have on this reflector is that people are too ready to take things literally and go off on a wobbler.... Too many colloquialisms? A new campaign! Let's make Sunday, "CW actrivity day", people listen then and if they hear nothing they won't bother to get on the band..... 73. Dave G3YXM. > Hi All > Is there anyone out there keeping any records about TA activity and > countries worked by LF operators. > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24326 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 20:14:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 20:14:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22995 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 20:14:47 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 20:14:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Ng7M-0004ui-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 20:11:36 +0000 Received: from imdns1.tin.it ([212.216.176.237] helo=fep41-svc.tin.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Ng7L-0004ud-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 20:11:35 +0000 Received: from base ([212.171.197.144]) by fep41-svc.tin.it (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with SMTP id <20020107201028.JRUE3603.fep41-svc.tin.it@base> for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 21:10:28 +0100 From: "VALERIO" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 135921 Hz Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 21:04:20 +0100 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.1.99] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <02010721042000.11945@base> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On the other side of the Atlantic, please look at my transmission starting at 21:00 untill 23:00 on 135921 Hz '73 IK5ZPV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14912 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 19:54:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 19:54:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8266 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 19:54:06 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 19:54:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NfnY-0004q8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 19:51:08 +0000 Received: from [204.202.140.198] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NfnW-0004px-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 19:51:07 +0000 Received: from gomailjtp05 ([10.212.0.165]) by mta06.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GPL00MAH2A6MK@mta06.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 11:32:30 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 11:32:28 -0800 (PST) From: "John Sexton" Subject: LF: GPS Coherant PSK Transmission To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <3731579.1010431948893.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Andy, Tonight's sequence appears to be 15 x 2 bit symbols: 01101 01010 10001 01010 11101 00101 John, G4CNN ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4021 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 18:38:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 18:38:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1448 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 18:38:28 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 18:38:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NecM-0004fo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 18:35:30 +0000 Received: from imo-r10.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.106]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NecL-0004fg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 18:35:29 +0000 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.94.1f76f600 (4413) for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 13:34:31 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <94.1f76f600.296b4437@aol.com> Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 13:34:31 EST Subject: Re: LF: Re: New band plan To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows XP DE sub 50 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi Alberto and Group,

Only 800 Hz for CW, and that in the worst part of the band (QRM, Luxembourg Effect, DCF39, DLF splatter // intermod) ?

No thanks...

If we needed an 'official band plan' at all, we could move the "edge frequency" between slow modes and regular CW from 136.0 to 136.3 (or so), but keep the 136.5 as "center of activity" for CW.
There are a couple of dinosaurs like myself, enjouying steam radio as well as the "modern modes".
Especially on saturday and sunday mornings there is still a lot of ''TWO WAY traffic' going on in DL (and also low-power stations not looking for the big DX can enjoy it). Though most DL stations have worked each other dozens of times it is still nice to have a 'talking' QSO.

But please don't let us start a fruitless discussion about pro & contra CW on this reflector.
There should be enough room for a peaceful co-existence of all modes. No need to have a band plan nailed to the wall as long (or on someone's forehead).

Instead of saying "No xxx on this frequency", lets put it this way:
    "xxx encouraged at the lower edge of the band" ...
    "yyy preferably on 136.x kHz " ...
    "center of CW activity on 136.6 +- 400Hz " (thinking of those with 270 Hz IF filters)
    "prolonged beaconing should be avoided between ... and ..." (including time of day)
 etc.
Note: This list is incomplete and worth less than a Cent - we ran out of them anyway.


Now back to stirring the tea,
 Kind regards,
      Wolf DL4YHF.

 --... ...--   From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21419 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 18:34:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 18:34:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28633 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 18:34:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 18:34:33 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NeZw-0004f3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 18:33:00 +0000 Received: from mailout03.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NeZv-0004ey-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 18:32:59 +0000 Received: from fwd05.sul.t-online.de by mailout03.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 16NeZA-0005mM-08; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 19:32:12 +0100 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.227.109.3]) by fwd05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16NeYw-0G6jdAC; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 19:31:58 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000e01c197a2$3eb61120$749401d4@g4jnt> Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: GPS Coherent PSK Transmission X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 19:31:58 +0100 Message-ID: <16NeYw-0G6jdAC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andrew Talbot schrieb: > Spot on Jim - > > It will be going again tonight - and this time I've put on a CW ident at 15 > minute (+ the ID itself) intervals to keep some people happy :-) > > Andy G4JNT > > > > > From M0BMU - > >I copied the G4JNT PSK beacon last night; assuming I have the start > >times/polarity correct the sequence was: > > > >011 010 111 001 011 > > Hi Andy, are u ZOA (on air) now (1831UTC) ? regards Uwe/dj8wx > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7787 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 18:26:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 18:26:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 24389 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 18:26:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 18:26:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NeRZ-0004bZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 18:24:21 +0000 Received: from mail6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NeRY-0004bU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 18:24:20 +0000 Received: from modem-64.pebble-butterfly.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.49.64] helo=g3aqc) by mail6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 16NeQl-0000KV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 18:23:31 +0000 Message-ID: <000e01c197a8$6a314bc0$05e9fea9@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Transatlantic QSOs Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 18:22:51 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Tonight from 2130 to 2330utc I will transmit 30sec DFCW on 135,921.5Hz looking for replies on 14030 +/- 5 kHz. At this speed my overs should take 20/30 mins and
any opening should be long enough for at least one QSO. 73s Laurie.  
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26868 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 18:24:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 18:24:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21893 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 18:24:41 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 18:24:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NePq-0004bH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 18:22:34 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NePq-0004av-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 18:22:34 +0000 Received: from ldsas15-79-130-19.cw-visp.com ([212.137.130.19] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16NeET-0001b0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 18:10:50 +0000 Message-ID: <3C39E6F2.6C1C0918@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 18:20:35 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: QSO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All Is there anyone out there keeping any records about TA activity and countries worked by LF operators. For instance: 1. Is there a record of any two way qso's on 136 or 73 khz. 2. Xband qso's 136/HF real time. 3. Those using beacons on 136 khz and getting reports, which really amount to short wave listeners reports. These are 3 distinct categories and totally different in procedures required for award purposes etc. As far as I am concerned a 2 way qso or xband qso should take place at one session and in the shortest time possible and not over days, weeks putting bits and pieces of the callsign together to claim a qso. Some seem to be implying that being heard on beacon mode on 73 and 136 k hz is the same as a two way on the band or xband qso. Not as far as I am concerned. de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23703 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 17:57:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 17:57:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 9623 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 17:43:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 17:43:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Ndkn-0004Qp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 17:40:09 +0000 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Ndkm-0004Qk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 17:40:08 +0000 Received: from [212.1.148.116] (helo=g4jnt) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 16NdeD-0000fS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 17:33:21 +0000 Message-ID: <000e01c197a2$3eb61120$749401d4@g4jnt> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Re: GPS Coherent PSK Transmission Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 17:39:15 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Spot on Jim - It will be going again tonight - and this time I've put on a CW ident at 15 minute (+ the ID itself) intervals to keep some people happy :-) Andy G4JNT > From M0BMU - >I copied the G4JNT PSK beacon last night; assuming I have the start >times/polarity correct the sequence was: > >011 010 111 001 011 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9275 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 17:51:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 17:51:04 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29415 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 17:33:39 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 17:33:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NdY1-0004NU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 17:26:57 +0000 Received: from [204.202.140.199] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NdXz-0004NP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 17:26:56 +0000 Received: from gomailjtp05 ([10.212.0.165]) by mta07.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GPK000QYW8E1I@mta07.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 09:21:50 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 09:22:06 -0800 (PST) From: "John Sexton" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: New band plan (was: GPS Coherant PSK Transmission) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <5521169.1010424126221.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Dave, For my money everyone is welcome on the band, whatever mode they wish to use. The more the merrier. As I see it the problem is not over-usage but under-usage, and that applies to me too. If the existing informal "band-plan" has indeed been submitted for ratification, I am surprised and sorry to hear it. The plan was discussed at Windsor last October, and there were a number of suggestions for revising it, but nothing was agreed. Sorry, because in my opinion it gives precedence to normal speed CW. I have nothing against CW, but this band is unique being at the LF end of the spectrum and very narrow. It gives amateurs an opportunity to experiment with new (for us) techniques to meet the challenge of this interesting band. It shouldn't just be a retreat for CW enthusiasts. Before any plan is fixed in stone, it should be properly discussed and thought out. For example in some regions there are commercial stations operating in the band and amateurs will need to avoid these in order not to cause interference and just to have a chance of hearing weak signals. Even when a plan is agreed, it should nevertheless come up for revision from time to time, perhaps every 2 years or even more frequently in the light of experience or changes in band conditions (we haven't been through a full solar cycle yet) or for technical reasons. Everyone with an interest in using the band should be allowed and indeed encouraged to make an input to this process. I would prefer to see a positive approach of encouraging experimentation and a great degree of flexibility in any plan adopted. Unless a user is actually causing interference to another, we really shouldn't object. The most important thing is to get along with one another and make all users feel welcome. LF is a GREAT band and THE place to be. 73, John, G4CNN -----Original Message----- From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Date: Mon Jan 07 06:15:48 PST 2002 Subject: LF: Re: Re: New band plan (was: GPS Coherant PSK Transmission) >>From Dave G3YMC> >I2PHD wrote: >>Just to stir a bit the water, what about the following : >>135.7 - 136.0 Long distance (TA or TP), weak-signal modes (QRSS, >DFCW,etc.), no CW allowed >>136.0 - 137.0 All digital modes + QRSS + DFCW , both for QSOs and >experimentations, no CW >>137.0 - 137.8 CW only > >Oh dear, dear, dear. >As it happens, the suggested bandplan (at >http://www.g3wkl.freeserve.co.uk/lf/136kHz.html) has now been submitted to IARU >region 1 for ratification. There are aspects in it which many of us are not in total >agreement with, but it is has now been submitted so should be followed whereever >reasonable. G4JNT has now explained his reasons for doing tests within the normal cw >portion, clearly indicating you can never find a compromise which will meet all >requirements. It might have helped if Andy had explained this beforehand, that it was >a special case justifying an out of bandplan operation. I am afraid comments like >'So as far as we're concerned bandplans can go to the wall when this sort of >requirement rears its head !' are not helpful. Neither does changing the bandplan if >it doesn't meet your requirements! > >John Sexton wrote: >>Do we need to stick with this bandplan? When it was devised it reflected interests >>at that time among a rather small group. >>Things have moved on since then. > >What has moved on since then is that those who use digital modes think they are now >the only band users, and anybody else like me who has no interest in those modes >whatsoever is not welcome, either on the band or on this reflector. The band is for >all amateurs whatever their interests. The bandplan was devised with that in mind. >Unfortunately many we used to have on the band have already lost interest in it >because of this attitude. I can see the time very soon when the digital boys have >got their way and turned the whole band over to those modes - I may well have already >vacated the band myself by the time that happens. > >73s Dave G3YMC >dsergeant@iee.org >dsergeant@btinternet.com >http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk > > > > > > ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6262 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 17:37:15 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 17:37:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18775 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 17:37:12 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 17:37:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NdbC-0004OX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 17:30:14 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NdbB-0004OS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 17:30:13 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16NdaQ-0002zP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 17:29:26 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16NdaP-0004KO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 17:29:25 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020107152540.00aceaf0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 17:28:41 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: Band Plan MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Some reasons for the current band-plan: The "Transatlantic" windows at the top and bottom of the band are there for good reasons- the bottom of the band is better for the North American receiving stations because there is greater frequency separation from CFH when it is operating. It makes sense for the European stations to try and receive signals at the other end of the band because that way they can avoid their receivers being overloaded by their neighbors trying to transmit to the DX stations. The CW part of the band seems to have been designated so because that's where the CW activity was - trying to change it now would be awkward for those who are stuck on one frequency, such as those using Ropex TXs, who would then all have to pull their rigs apart and buy new crystals. I am opposed to the idea of a rigid band plan for a couple of reasons. First, the use of the band is affected by the operating frequencies and schedules of government and commercial stations, and other forms of QRM - if they decide to change, they are hardly likely to inform us, let alone consult us, so we must be flexible enough to change with them. This happened when SXV changed frequency last winter, and uproar resulted when the transatlantic beacon signals had to shift from 135.7 to 135.9. A similar problem occurs if your station is affected by local QRM, which makes operation in parts of the band impossible for you. Second, many of the modes in use are of an experimental nature with there own peculiar requirements - I think it would be impossible to devise one band plan that accomodated every possible mode in such a way as to prevent mutual interference between incompatible modes. With the current band plan for example, where would SMT-Hell, or 7FSK, or the low-speed SSB transmissions that have been tried fit in? These modes are not data or CW. Listening on the air, it is obvious that the band-plan infringements that have occurred generate much more noise on the LF reflector than they do on the band - At any time, it is rare to find the band close to being full up, and I think most people would welcome more signals of any type. A band plan makes operation easier in some ways because you can find the type of signal you want where you are expecting it - imagine trying to search the whole band for a 60s QRSS signal. In amateur radio, nobody exclusively owns a particular frequency, and it would be antisocial to "occupy" a frequency like the commercial stations do, transmitting idle signals for days and weeks on end, whether it complies with the band plan or not. But if someone wants to use part of the band for an unusual purpose for a while, and it isn't causing huge problems to everyone else, why shouldn't they? I think it just requires a bit of give and take on everybody's part. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9194 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 17:16:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 17:16:40 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 2257 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 17:16:38 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 17:16:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NdAp-0004Ki-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 17:02:59 +0000 Received: from [204.202.140.199] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NdAo-0004Kd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 17:02:58 +0000 Received: from gomailjtp05 ([10.212.0.165]) by mta07.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GPK00MJJTUJW5@mta07.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 08:30:19 -0800 (PST) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 08:30:35 -0800 (PST) From: "John Sexton" Subject: LF: Mystery signal To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <4443472.1010421035611.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Jim, I have a carrier which I have logged on 136.655 that has been there all the time since I started to listen to the band. I have queried it in the past and it seems that not everyone hears it. This may well be the same signal as Laurie hears on 136.647, I shall have to check the frequency more carefully. 136.5 is allocated to FYA36, St. Assise, France. 73, John, G4CNN ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2513 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 15:47:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 15:47:23 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16160 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 15:47:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 15:47:21 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NbxF-00049l-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 15:44:53 +0000 Received: from e4.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.104]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NbxD-00049e-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 15:44:52 +0000 Received: from southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.208]) by e4.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA58414 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 10:40:30 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss8.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.73]) by southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g07FhQL41410 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 10:43:27 -0500 Message-ID: <3C39C217.9FB6863C@usa.net> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 16:43:19 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: New band plan References: <20020107105324.1BE1D3DC8@xprdmailfe.excite.com> <3C39881D.5513DCCD@usa.net> <3.0.1.16.20020107160505.31778276@pb623250.kuleuven.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik Strobbe wrote: > I am happy to notice that the RSGB HF committee has wise men who understand > that specifice nature of the 136kHz ham band (only 2.1kHz in an extreme > high noise part of the spectrum) makes it more an experimenter band than a > communicator band. Rik, you touched the key issue... not only on the 136kHz band, but everywhere else any aspect of the ham activity faces the problems generated by the hiatus between the experimenters and the communicators... look e.g. at the diatribe generated by the experimental use of MFSK at 14.080 MHz, the 'holy' frequency of the RTTY DXers... 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18566 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 15:31:02 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 15:31:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1749 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 15:31:00 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 15:31:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NbfD-00046n-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 15:26:15 +0000 Received: from tomts15.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.3] helo=tomts15-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NbfC-00046i-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 15:26:14 +0000 Received: from server1.sympatico.ca ([216.209.110.15]) by tomts15-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20020107152520.CMUJ23989.tomts15-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1.sympatico.ca> for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 10:25:20 -0500 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020107102225.00a75770@POP2.sympatico.ca> X-Sender: b1aemm59@POP2.sympatico.ca X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 10:25:19 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Larry Kayser" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: New band plan (was: GPS Coherant PSK Transmission) In-reply-to: <001701c19785$e7483c40$0cec7ad5@dave> References: <20020107105324.1BE1D3DC8@xprdmailfe.excite.com> <3C39881D.5513DCCD@usa.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >Dave: >Oh dear, dear, dear. >As it happens, the suggested bandplan (at >http://www.g3wkl.freeserve.co.uk/lf/136kHz.html) has now been submitted to >IARU >region 1 for ratification. With respect, I do hope that such a band plan is for Region 1 ONLY, and will not be even considered, thought off, dreamt of, for other Regions. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22675 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 15:12:18 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 15:12:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9247 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 15:12:12 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 15:12:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NbP4-00042r-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 15:09:34 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NbP3-00042e-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 15:09:33 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g07F8FGs045952 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 16:08:15 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20020107160505.31778276@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 16:05:05 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: Re: New band plan In-reply-to: <001701c19785$e7483c40$0cec7ad5@dave> References: <20020107105324.1BE1D3DC8@xprdmailfe.excite.com> <3C39881D.5513DCCD@usa.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >As it happens, the suggested bandplan (at >http://www.g3wkl.freeserve.co.uk/lf/136kHz.html) has now been submitted to IARU >region 1 for ratification. Hello all, I don't believe that I am wrong when I state that 136kHz is a band where all kind of things are in fast evolution. New modes are developed and tested, we learn about trans-atlantic and trans-pacific propagation etc... New modes create the need for new bandspace, so I doubt that it is a good thing to have a bandplan 'carved in stone'. We must have some kind of agreement to allow a peacefull co-existance between the 'experimenters' and 'QSOers'. But this agreement (or bandplan if you prefer) should be subject to revision when needed and this will be most likely more than once every 3 years at IARU R1 conferences. A 136kHz bandplan that is a burden to experimentation is not a good bandplan. Fortunately the RSGB proposal to the upcoming IARU Region 1 Conference starts with : "No rigid band plan is proposed, but amateurs are asked to work within the following conventions, giving long-distance communication and experimentation priority" I am happy to notice that the RSGB HF committee has wise men who understand that specifice nature of the 136kHz ham band (only 2.1kHz in an extreme high noise part of the spectrum) makes it more an experimenter band than a communicator band. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20552 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 15:08:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 15:08:44 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 5700 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 15:08:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 15:08:49 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NbLP-00042C-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 15:05:47 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NbLO-000426-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 15:05:46 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id PAA25128; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 15:14:32 GMT Received: (qmail 11169 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 15:54:16 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 15:54:16 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id PAA01133; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 15:24:28 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma001115; Mon, 7 Jan 02 15:24:04 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 15:10:46 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 15:04:35 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB993A@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Re: GPS Coherent PSK Transmissi on Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 15:04:28 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Who's using high power, I'm certainly not ! 3-4 Watts of RF to a 7m high Tee gives about 0dBm ERP Or -30dBW, or 1mW, in other money. Andy 'JNT -----Original Message----- From: G0MRF@aol.com [mailto:G0MRF@aol.com] Sent: 07 January 2002 14:33 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: GPS Coherent PSK Transmission In a message dated 1/7/02 9:13:15 AM GMT Standard Time, ACTALBOT@dstl.gov.uk writes: I hardly think a sub 0dBm ERP transmission is going to cause a problem to those wideband incoherent signallers ! I understood that the signals were in the middle of the band, at high power and at a weekend. The frequency limitations I can understand so I guess that's one out of three. David -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28764 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 14:38:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 14:38:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15564 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 14:38:22 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 14:38:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Naqq-0003x6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 14:34:12 +0000 Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Naqp-0003wy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 14:34:11 +0000 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.136.6f2f3a1 (17526) for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 09:32:46 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <136.6f2f3a1.296b0b8e@aol.com> Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 09:32:46 EST Subject: Re: LF: Re: GPS Coherent PSK Transmission To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 10510 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit In a message dated 1/7/02 9:13:15 AM GMT Standard Time, ACTALBOT@dstl.gov.uk writes:


So as far as we're concerned bandplans can go to the wall when this sort of requirement rears its head !

I hardly think a sub 0dBm ERP transmission is going to cause a problem to those wideband incoherent signallers !



I understood that the signals were in the middle of the band, at high power and at a weekend. The frequency limitations I can understand so I guess that's one out of three.

Thanks

David From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9409 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 14:18:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 14:18:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 16449 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 14:18:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 14:18:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NaYs-0003u2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 14:15:38 +0000 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NaYr-0003tx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 14:15:38 +0000 Received: from host213-122-236-12.btinternet.com ([213.122.236.12] helo=dave) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16NaY6-0007bv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 14:14:50 +0000 Message-ID: <001701c19785$e7483c40$0cec7ad5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" References: <20020107105324.1BE1D3DC8@xprdmailfe.excite.com> <3C39881D.5513DCCD@usa.net> Subject: LF: Re: Re: New band plan (was: GPS Coherant PSK Transmission) Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 14:15:48 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC I2PHD wrote: >Just to stir a bit the water, what about the following : >135.7 - 136.0 Long distance (TA or TP), weak-signal modes (QRSS, DFCW,etc.), no CW allowed >136.0 - 137.0 All digital modes + QRSS + DFCW , both for QSOs and experimentations, no CW >137.0 - 137.8 CW only Oh dear, dear, dear. As it happens, the suggested bandplan (at http://www.g3wkl.freeserve.co.uk/lf/136kHz.html) has now been submitted to IARU region 1 for ratification. There are aspects in it which many of us are not in total agreement with, but it is has now been submitted so should be followed whereever reasonable. G4JNT has now explained his reasons for doing tests within the normal cw portion, clearly indicating you can never find a compromise which will meet all requirements. It might have helped if Andy had explained this beforehand, that it was a special case justifying an out of bandplan operation. I am afraid comments like 'So as far as we're concerned bandplans can go to the wall when this sort of requirement rears its head !' are not helpful. Neither does changing the bandplan if it doesn't meet your requirements! John Sexton wrote: >Do we need to stick with this bandplan? When it was devised it reflected interests >at that time among a rather small group. >Things have moved on since then. What has moved on since then is that those who use digital modes think they are now the only band users, and anybody else like me who has no interest in those modes whatsoever is not welcome, either on the band or on this reflector. The band is for all amateurs whatever their interests. The bandplan was devised with that in mind. Unfortunately many we used to have on the band have already lost interest in it because of this attitude. I can see the time very soon when the digital boys have got their way and turned the whole band over to those modes - I may well have already vacated the band myself by the time that happens. 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 364 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 13:02:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 13:02:10 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 21233 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 13:02:14 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 13:02:14 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NZMr-0003j4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 12:59:09 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NZMq-0003iz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 12:59:08 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id NAA15994; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 13:07:54 GMT Received: (qmail 5262 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 13:47:39 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 13:47:39 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id NAA23195; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 13:17:50 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma023167; Mon, 7 Jan 02 13:17:29 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 13:04:10 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 12:57:58 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803DCB9935@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re: GPS Coherent PSK Transmission Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 12:57:50 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Well done, you even spotted the c__k up, that period at 2250 is rather embarassing - I hit the master switch on the test equipment rack intending to leave just the radio equippment bench powered. Trouble is, the GPS receiver was powered as a piece of test equipment so it went off. I realised almost immediately and started again at the next 7.5 minute interval carrying on as if nothing had happened. The RF never wavered so phase coherence was maintained. Haven't got a record of the sequence here, I'll have to check when I get home, its recorded in the logbook (!!???!!), but what you got looks right from memory - there was certainly a 6 / 9 ratio of 0s and 1s. I typed the sequence in almost at random, in a hurry to start it on one of the 7.5 minute boundaries before 1800z without having to sit and tumb twiddle for too long. Your second method is how I was hoping a few listeners would manage to receive this signal - hence the reason I kept the transistions to minute / hour boundaries to make manual decoding easy. Will be interesting to see if Bill managed to make anything out of integrating several hours worth. At least the 2250z glitch shouldn't harm his carrier integration, just a frame of data. Suppose I really ought to add a CW ID to be legal ! Should have a spare PIC beacon keyer lying around which I can programme to send a callsign at 24WPM every 15 minutes in OOK - that shouldn't upset the PSK signalling , although it will generate widespread QRM in the CW part of the band - oh, sorry, it will be CW won't it so that's Ok :-) Andy G4JNT -----Original Message----- From: James Moritz Subject: LF: Re: GPS Coherent PSK Transmission I copied the G4JNT PSK beacon last night; assuming I have the start times/polarity correct the sequence was: -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12383 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 12:41:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 12:41:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 4811 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 12:41:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 12:41:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NZ1f-0003fp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 12:37:15 +0000 Received: from mail11.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.23]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NZ1c-0003fi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 12:37:13 +0000 Received: from modem-233.eilenach.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.176.233] helo=g3aqc) by mail11.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 16NZ0l-00030R-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 12:36:20 +0000 Message-ID: <000501c19777$e9882280$05e9fea9@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020107102830.00b0ecb0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Re: GPS Coherent PSK Transmission Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 12:35:36 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: James Moritz Subject: LF: Re: GPS Coherent PSK Transmission > Dear Andy, LF Group, > > I copied the G4JNT PSK beacon last night; assuming I have the start > times/polarity correct the sequence was: > > 011 010 111 001 011 > > I found two methods of demodulating the signal using general-purpose > equipment - the first is simply to produce a spectrogram, using parameters > for 30s dots. The "key clicks" produced by the phase transitions are > visible as a spreading of the trace. Setting Spectrum Lab to produce 30s > time markers made it fairly easy to identify the sequence. I noticed a > period around 2250 when there were no phase transitions for several > minutes, but then the sequence returned to normal. > > The second method was to look at the phase directly - to do this I fed the > RX audio into one channel of a 'scope, and fed a stable audio frequency > equal to the BFO offset into the other channel. The frequency error of the > RX and locally generated tone was small enough so that the phase difference > between the two traces only changed a fraction of a cycle in several > minutes, so it was easy to see an abrupt phase change when it occurred. Due > to QRM/QRN, I found that to make the beacon signal clearly visible on the > scope, a very narrow bandwidth audio filter (<10Hz) was required; this was > also implemented using Spectrum Lab. Even then, the apparent phase of the > signal bounced around by some 10s of degrees due to noise, and noise spikes > could cause a temporary phase inversion, so a lot of concentration was > required to get the sequence. With a strong signal, the traces are quite > stable, so you could use this method to detect an abrupt phase change, or > measure frequency to millihertz resolution quite easily. > > Although good fun, neither of these methods is really viable for DX > reception, since they don't integrate the signal over the whole bit period, > let alone over several sequences - a bit like decoding QRSS by ear. Andy's > signal was about S3 at my QTH, but hard to actually hear due to a permanent > S6 carrier I get on about 136.65kHz, a real nuisance for manual CW > operation - does anyone else hear this? Yes Jim I have a permanent carrier (Loran line ?) on 136.647 by my measurment which I call the south coast mystery signal ! since people further inland dont seem to hear it. I once tried to DF it and belive it originates from E.France,but I could be wrong. It makes a good calibration marker since the freq. is very constant. 73s Laurie. > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21514 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 12:09:31 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 12:09:31 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11295 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 12:09:29 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 12:09:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NYXA-0003cB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 12:05:44 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NYX9-0003c6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 12:05:44 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16NYWN-0000uO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 12:04:55 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16NYWM-0002bJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 12:04:54 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020107102830.00b0ecb0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 12:04:14 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: Re: GPS Coherent PSK Transmission In-reply-to: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C689@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.go v.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Andy, LF Group, I copied the G4JNT PSK beacon last night; assuming I have the start times/polarity correct the sequence was: 011 010 111 001 011 I found two methods of demodulating the signal using general-purpose equipment - the first is simply to produce a spectrogram, using parameters for 30s dots. The "key clicks" produced by the phase transitions are visible as a spreading of the trace. Setting Spectrum Lab to produce 30s time markers made it fairly easy to identify the sequence. I noticed a period around 2250 when there were no phase transitions for several minutes, but then the sequence returned to normal. The second method was to look at the phase directly - to do this I fed the RX audio into one channel of a 'scope, and fed a stable audio frequency equal to the BFO offset into the other channel. The frequency error of the RX and locally generated tone was small enough so that the phase difference between the two traces only changed a fraction of a cycle in several minutes, so it was easy to see an abrupt phase change when it occurred. Due to QRM/QRN, I found that to make the beacon signal clearly visible on the scope, a very narrow bandwidth audio filter (<10Hz) was required; this was also implemented using Spectrum Lab. Even then, the apparent phase of the signal bounced around by some 10s of degrees due to noise, and noise spikes could cause a temporary phase inversion, so a lot of concentration was required to get the sequence. With a strong signal, the traces are quite stable, so you could use this method to detect an abrupt phase change, or measure frequency to millihertz resolution quite easily. Although good fun, neither of these methods is really viable for DX reception, since they don't integrate the signal over the whole bit period, let alone over several sequences - a bit like decoding QRSS by ear. Andy's signal was about S3 at my QTH, but hard to actually hear due to a permanent S6 carrier I get on about 136.65kHz, a real nuisance for manual CW operation - does anyone else hear this? Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19407 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 11:41:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 11:41:26 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 12098 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 11:41:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 11:41:29 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NY5s-0003Wt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 11:37:32 +0000 Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.101]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NY5q-0003Wk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 11:37:31 +0000 Received: from northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (northrelay01.pok.ibm.com [9.117.200.21]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA327228 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 06:33:11 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss5.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.70]) by northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g07Ba3B57108 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 06:36:08 -0500 Message-ID: <3C39881D.5513DCCD@usa.net> Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 12:35:57 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: New band plan (was: GPS Coherant PSK Transmission) References: <20020107105324.1BE1D3DC8@xprdmailfe.excite.com> Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: john sexton wrote:
Things have moved on since then.
Most activity is in the miniscule TA slot or at the very top of the band. So isn't it time to revisit this plan, to make a more sensible distribution, reflecting the interests of everyone?

Any proposals?

Just to stir a bit the water, what about the following :

135.7    -    136.0        Long distance (TA or TP), weak-signal modes (QRSS, DFCW,etc.), no CW allowed
136.0    -    137.0        All digital modes + QRSS + DFCW , both for QSOs and experimentations, no CW
137.0    -    137.8        CW only

I am sure many will not agree :-) but it is just to provoke discussions....

73  Alberto  I2PHD
  From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17264 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 11:21:35 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 11:21:35 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21497 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 11:21:33 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 11:21:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NXni-0003UA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 11:18:46 +0000 Received: from rhun.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.26]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NXnh-0003U5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 11:18:45 +0000 Received: from srv17slx.esoterica.pt (srv17slx.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.47]) by rhun.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id g07BHti11480 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 11:17:55 GMT Received: from slave-6 (por047.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.47]) by srv17slx.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id g07BHsL00742 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 11:17:55 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020107111913.0094a290@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 11:19:13 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: Re. GPS Coherant PSK Transmission In-reply-to: <001901c19763$e585eb40$05e9fea9@g3aqc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, I had no intention of making a comment either, BUT as one who was blasted out of the water on my first transmission I have not done too much transmitting since. Now it appears I am still doing the wrong thing. Life is difficult. Last October my temporary authorisation to transmit time lapsed and has not yet been renewed so now I may not transmit. 73, Brian At 10:12 07/01/2002 -0000, you wrote: > Hi All, then we ought to understand this. blatant uncaring stamping >on other people and un-warranted criticism that has driven people off the >band. or care for another mode of operation. We've come a long way in >the past year lets continue to experiment and progress, after all thats >what Amateur radio is all about. 73s Laurie 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10730 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 11:00:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 11:00:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6818 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 11:00:07 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 11:00:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NXQv-0003Ps-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 10:55:13 +0000 Received: from nat20.excitenetwork.com ([63.236.75.68] helo=xprdmailfe.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NXQu-0003Pl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 10:55:12 +0000 Received: by xprdmailfe.excite.com (Postfix, from userid 110) id 1BE1D3DC8; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 05:53:24 -0500 (EST) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Re. GPS Coherant PSK Transmission From: "john sexton" MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Sender: computernetworks@excite.com X-Mailer: PHP Content-Type: text/html; charset=iso-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <20020107105324.1BE1D3DC8@xprdmailfe.excite.com> Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 05:53:24 -0500 (EST) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All,
Do we need to stick with this bandplan? When it was devised it reflected interests at that time among a rather small group.
Things have moved on since then.
Most activity is in the miniscule TA slot or at the very top of the band. So isn't it time to revisit this plan, to make a more sensible distribution, reflecting the interests of everyone?

Any proposals?
73 John, G4CNN


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6544 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 10:15:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 10:15:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 20172 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 10:15:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 10:15:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NWmv-0003Km-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 10:13:53 +0000 Received: from cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.171]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NWmt-0003Kh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 10:13:51 +0000 Received: from modem-33.draugluin.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.158.33] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 16NWm7-00002u-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 10:13:04 +0000 Message-ID: <001901c19763$e585eb40$05e9fea9@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. GPS Coherant PSK Transmission Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 10:12:27 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi All,
As Dave says activity on 136 is at an all time low (on 73 its non-existant)and all this at a time when we have developed our equipment and techniques so that communication is much better than it was a year ago.Much of this lack of activity is due to the carping that has been going on over the past year.I myself have been criticised on many occasions,yet the source of this criticism is now very pleased with himself to have made it across the Atlantic.Some of us are more sensitive to criticism than others especially when it is un-constructive. Surely we can co-operate with each other and if there is a good reason why a "Gentlemans agreement " should be broken as in Andys case and as there was some time ago when Peter operated QRSS in the CW part of the band, then we ought to understand this.
It is blatant uncaring stamping on other people and un-warranted criticism that has driven people off the band.
Lets live together and enjoy LF even if we don't understand  or care for another mode of operation. We've come a long way in the past year lets continue to experiment and progress, after all thats what Amateur radio is all about. 
Happy New Year.   73s Laurie
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20618 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 09:48:08 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 09:48:08 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26013 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 09:48:07 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 09:48:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NWLO-0003FA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 09:45:26 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NWLN-0003F2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 09:45:25 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g079i6Gs076240 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 10:44:06 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20020107104058.2bc70b34@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 07 Jan 2002 10:40:58 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: TIP 107 In-reply-to: <3C36E4D4.282FBBCD@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 11:34 5/01/02 +0000, you wrote: > Does anyone have info about this transistor pse. Cannot find this >particular one in any data book that I have. >Tnx de Mal/G3KEV > Hi Mal, TIP107 = PNP, package = TOP66, Vcb = 60V, Vce = 60V, Veb = 5V, Ic = 8A, Pt = 80W, Ft = 4MHz, Hfe = >1000 @ 3A, EU eqivalent = BD651 Connections : if you look at the bottom (pins) with the mounting surface down the base is left, collector in the middle and emittor right. 73, Rik ON7YD PS : I still don't get how to transmit G3KEV plus ZJ (or TAG) plus a report within 1 hour at 60 sec/dot CW. I assume you agree that the exchange of your callsign, at least the suffix of the other call and a report is the 'minimum minimorum' for a QSO. Bur as said ... even if it were 2 or 3 hours : congrats on the achievement 73, Rik From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28617 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 09:13:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 09:13:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 2795 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 09:13:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 09:13:29 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NVnU-0003AI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 09:10:24 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NVnS-0003AC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 09:10:22 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id JAA28535; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 09:19:07 GMT Received: (qmail 25835 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 09:58:52 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 09:58:52 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id JAA07501; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 09:29:05 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma007473; Mon, 7 Jan 02 09:28:58 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 09:15:37 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 09:09:26 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C689@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: GPS Coherent PSK Transmission Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 09:09:19 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Yes, but if you'd seen previous EMails you would have realised I must use this frequency for other reasons.
 
G3PLX, who prompted these PSK transmissions, is developing a very simple cheap and cheerful way of locking a receiver to the GPS 1PPS pulse, and at the moment he can only listen on frequencies that are equal to ( N + 1 / M) Hz   where N and M are integers.  Using my DDS source driven from the 5MHz frequency standard, the only frequency in the entire band that meets this criteria is 5MHz * 7 / 256  = 136718.75.    Arbitrary frequencies could have a frequency error as high as 561uHz, which is far too high for these tests at 4E-9 error - we need long term (several hours) accuracies of just a few parts in 10^-10
 
So as far as we're concerned bandplans can go to the wall when this sort of requirement rears its head !
 
I hardly think a sub 0dBm ERP transmission is going to cause a problem to those wideband incoherent signallers !
 
A parallel longer term solution I'm looking at for this signalling is a standard locked to GPS with a frequency that is more 'DDS friendly'    A PLL with a 1Hz comparison frequency will enable a 4.194304MHz oscillator to be locked which with a 32 bit DDS will give all frequencies at multiples of  1/1024 Hz exactly.   A big difference between traditional frequency standards and the requirements for low speed signalling here, is that the short term phase noise is less important.   Where each PSK symbol is 30 seconds long, then phase jitter every second gets integrated out.   If such a standard were used for HF to UHF then this would result in an unacceptable frequency blip.  Another option for better phase noise will be to lock a 4.096MHz oscillator to the 5MHz standard (using 8kHz reference).  Tis is not so good on a DDS but will give exact 1 Hz values every 125Hz, and so quarter Hz values every 31.25Hz  - so I'm sure a few frequencies can be found in the proper part of the band with these multiples.
 
Andy  'JNT
-----Original Message-----
From: G0MRF@aol.com [mailto:G0MRF@aol.com]

In a message dated 1/6/02 5:11:10 PM GMT Standard Time, G4JNT@thersgb.net writes:
sequence is a '0'.  Frequency 136718.75000 Hz

Isn't the data transmission 'slot' above 137.3  ish  ??



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 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 414 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 09:01:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 09:01:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 15778 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 09:01:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 09:01:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NVZJ-00036h-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 08:55:45 +0000 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NVZI-00036c-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 08:55:44 +0000 Received: from host213-1-140-151.btinternet.com ([213.1.140.151] helo=dave) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16NVYW-0002eM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 08:54:57 +0000 Message-ID: <003001c19759$386967c0$978c01d5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" References: <001e01c1969b$d2a042a0$c18801d4@g4jnt> <002101c196ad$e48f7500$1700a8c0@home> Subject: LF: Re: Re: GPS Coherent PSK Transmission Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 08:55:43 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC G3YXM wrote: >Is that Andy with a full power data transmission in the middle of the CW >area..... on a Sunday? >Someone might go off in huff if this carries on! I wasn't going to comment, but I will. The current bandplan may be unofficial and a gentleman's agreement (as surely all bandplans are) but it gives a bad impression if a key operator on the band blatantly ignores this like Andy has. The excuse that it was a convenient crystal divide frequency is pretty feeble. I may have heard Andy's transmission on Saturday evening, but with no CW ident it was impossible to tell. I thought a suitable ident was a requirement of the licence. Unfortunately activity on the band seems to be at an all time low. I have called CQ frequently over the past week with little success, apart from a QSO with G3YXM (thanks Dave). I suspect most of the stations which were once active have been driven off to other bands - I see Mal has resorted to 60 seconds key down beacon mode. Things are getting pretty bad. 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26728 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 08:28:43 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 08:28:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18836 invoked from network); 7 Jan 2002 08:28:47 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jan 2002 08:28:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NUwd-00032W-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 08:15:47 +0000 Received: from ns3.swh.sk ([192.108.125.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NUwc-00032P-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 07 Jan 2002 08:15:46 +0000 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes.swh.sk [192.108.125.60]) by ns3.swh.sk (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g078Euk04017 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 09:14:56 +0100 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA05168 for ; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 09:14:48 +0100 (MET) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 7 Jan 2002 09:14:44 +0100 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E0333C134@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: 136 Date: Mon, 7 Jan 2002 09:14:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi John and all LF-ers... I saw the gram from John VE1ZJ. I'm sure that this is a signal from me. I'm very happy, it's the first step for the crossband QSO. I'm still working on the tubes PA, so please wait until I'll finish the project. I'm sure, you will receive a "O" signal. Best regards... 73 de Rich OM2TW -----Original Message----- From: john currie [mailto:john.currie@ns.sympatico.ca] Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 1:36 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 136 Hi all , believe I saw Rich OM2TW last night thanks from freq info from Markus. Tonight will be looking with 60 sec dots . I want to see if I can identify DJ2LF and IK5ZPV. They were both off my screen last night. 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26575 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 23:50:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 23:50:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 2248 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 23:50:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 23:50:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NN0c-0002Eu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 23:47:22 +0000 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NN0b-0002Ep-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 23:47:21 +0000 Received: from host213-1-60-228.btinternet.com ([213.1.60.228] helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16NMzl-00013x-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 23:46:29 +0000 Message-ID: <000501c1970c$620549c0$e43c01d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Alberto...mail failing Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 23:46:16 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Alberto I have had a couple of mail posting bounced....It may just be a short term problem...I will try them again tomorrow. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5554 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 23:38:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 23:38:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24314 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 23:38:29 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 23:38:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NMpF-0002Cv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 23:35:37 +0000 Received: from europa.your-site.com ([140.186.45.14]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NMpE-0002Cq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 23:35:36 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.180.100]) by europa.your-site.com ; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 18:34:43 -0500 Message-ID: <3C38DF13.4413C00B@att.net> Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 23:34:43 +0000 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "RSGB LF" Subject: LF: 135 KHz tonight 06/07 Jan Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Looks like a little signal getting into NC tonight on 135.923. Screen shots updated at 15 min intervals posted at: http://www.gostanly.com/w4dex/135kHz.jpg W4DEX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27465 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 22:09:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 22:09:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10572 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 22:09:08 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 22:09:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NLRC-000233-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 22:06:42 +0000 Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NLRB-00022y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 22:06:42 +0000 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.14f.6d504e1 (3893) for ; Sun, 6 Jan 2002 17:04:28 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <14f.6d504e1.296a23ec@aol.com> Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 17:04:28 EST Subject: Re: LF: night sunday to monday To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 72 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi John, > Your posting said 136.92383 Hope typo Yes. Walter DJ2LF is transmitting on 135923.83 now. Will try to join him later on 135923.3/ .4 using 100s+33s DFCW. GL de Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29895 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 22:08:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 22:08:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 11062 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 22:07:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 22:07:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NLP8-00022t-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 22:04:34 +0000 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NLP7-00022o-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 22:04:33 +0000 Received: from host213-122-239-236.btinternet.com ([213.122.239.236] helo=j1r9b7) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16NLOM-0001x9-00; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 22:03:46 +0000 Message-ID: <002001c196fd$4fff2ca0$ecef7ad5@j1r9b7> From: "Derek Atter" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: "Stewart Bryant" References: <000101c193d2$e7f08780$23677ad5@default> Subject: LF: MB7LF Remote Receiver - Temporarily Off Air Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 21:58:01 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From : Derek Atter, G3GRO, 6th Jan 2002 To users of MB7LF in the Surrey, Sussex, and Kent area, please note that as from today, the experimental remote 136kHz receiver relay on 144.985.7 Mhz to 144.987.8 Mhz will be temporarily off air for a few days due to work in progress on a major shack re-layout at the Crawley Club which affects all the antenna cables including those for MB7LF. We hope to be back on-air before the weekend. 73, de Derek, G3GRO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20645 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 21:13:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 21:13:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8822 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 21:13:14 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 21:13:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NKZt-0001x0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 21:11:37 +0000 Received: from smtp1.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.91] helo=mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NKZs-0001wv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 21:11:36 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.11.167]) by mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Sun, 6 Jan 2002 17:05:48 -0400 Message-ID: <3C3902E9.141C0034@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 06 Jan 2002 21:07:37 -0500 From: "john currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: night sunday to monday References: <000e01c196ca$ff9687e0$7874ccd4@DEFAULT> Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi Walter I will look for you starting now 2100 120 sec dots 135.92383. Your posting said 136.92383  Hope typo
  73 de John VE1ZJ

Walter wrote:

 Hello to All,    I will send QRSS 120 beginning 2100utc to 900utc. QRG 136,923.83KHz.73 Walter DJ2LF 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10040 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 20:41:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 20:41:38 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3046 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 20:41:42 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 20:41:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NK1B-0001rT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 20:35:45 +0000 Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.8]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NK1A-0001rO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 20:35:44 +0000 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.59.158dd933 (17526) for ; Sun, 6 Jan 2002 15:34:49 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <59.158dd933.296a0ee9@aol.com> Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 15:34:49 EST Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: GPS Coherent PSK Transmission To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 10510 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit In a message dated 1/6/02 5:11:10 PM GMT Standard Time, G4JNT@thersgb.net writes:


Change of plan -
Tonight's transmission is 15 bits long, starting on the hour, so it repeats
every 7.5 minutes with 30 second symbols.  Again the starting bit of the
sequence is a '0'.  Frequency 136718.75000 Hz



Isn't the data transmission 'slot' above 137.3  ish  ??

David   'MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9882 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 17:11:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 17:11:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 6168 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 17:11:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 17:11:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NGne-0001Wd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 17:09:34 +0000 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NGnd-0001WY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 17:09:34 +0000 Received: from [212.1.148.18] (helo=g4jnt) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 16NGhC-0004ZO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 17:02:54 +0000 Message-ID: <001801c196d4$cf124a00$129401d4@g4jnt> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Re: GPS Coherent PSK Transmission Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 17:08:44 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Change of plan - Tonight's transmission is 15 bits long, starting on the hour, so it repeats every 7.5 minutes with 30 second symbols. Again the starting bit of the sequence is a '0'. Frequency 136718.75000 Hz Andy G4JNT From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11199 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 16:39:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 16:39:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 22876 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 16:39:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 16:39:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NGGz-0001OT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 16:35:49 +0000 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NGGz-0001OO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 16:35:49 +0000 Received: from host217-35-44-222.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.44.222] helo=dellboy) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16NGGD-0000S9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 16:35:01 +0000 Message-ID: <003e01c196d0$16c5a4a0$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000e01c196ca$ff9687e0$7874ccd4@DEFAULT> Subject: LF: Re: night sunday to monday Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 16:34:58 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Presume you mean 135,923.83 Hz ?
 
Dave G3YXM.

Hello to All,
    I will send QRSS 120 beginning 2100utc to 900utc. QRG 136,923.83KHz.
73 Walter DJ2LF
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20404 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 15:54:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 15:54:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 27703 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 15:54:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 15:54:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NFa3-0001IO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 15:51:27 +0000 Received: from [212.204.115.10] (helo=hugo.fen-net.de ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NFa2-0001IJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 15:51:26 +0000 Received: from DEFAULT (dialin-nbg-120.fen-net.de [212.204.116.120]) by hugo.fen-net.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA09100 for ; Sun, 6 Jan 2002 16:53:00 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <000e01c196ca$ff9687e0$7874ccd4@DEFAULT> From: "Walter" To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: night sunday to monday Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 16:58:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hello to All,
    I will send QRSS 120 beginning 2100utc to 900utc. QRG 136,923.83KHz.
73 Walter DJ2LF
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10366 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 13:03:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 13:03:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 3755 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 13:03:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 13:03:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NCvt-00012v-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 13:01:49 +0000 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NCvt-00012q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 13:01:49 +0000 Received: from host217-35-44-222.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.44.222] helo=dellboy) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16NCv8-0001MU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 13:01:02 +0000 Message-ID: <002801c196b2$33bc2d40$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000801c196b0$17978120$4d9c01d4@g4jnt> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: GPS Coherent PSK Transmission Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 13:01:02 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andy The low power TX?? I didn't see anything of it during the evening. Perhaps it was someone else then... it was strength 7 here, not bad for 4 Watts! Dave. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Talbot" To: Sent: Sunday, January 06, 2002 12:45 PM Subject: LF: Re: Re: GPS Coherent PSK Transmission > Sorry, its only the low power Tx. Various probelms with configuration / EMC > stop me using the big jobbie for these tests - anyway, it wouldn't be fair > would it, jamming all that wide band CW traffic :-( > > Andy 'JNT > > > -----Original Message----- > From: Dave Pick > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: 06 January 2002 12:34 > Subject: LF: Re: GPS Coherent PSK Transmission > > > > > >Is that Andy with a full power data transmission in the middle of the CW > >area..... on a Sunday? > >Someone might go off in huff if this carries on! > > > >Dave > >G3YXM. > > > > > > > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25641 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 12:48:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 12:48:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 23887 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 12:48:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 12:48:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NChI-0000zG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 12:46:44 +0000 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NChH-0000zB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 12:46:43 +0000 Received: from [212.1.156.77] (helo=g4jnt) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 16NCas-000304-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 12:40:06 +0000 Message-ID: <000801c196b0$17978120$4d9c01d4@g4jnt> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Re: GPS Coherent PSK Transmission Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 12:45:57 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Sorry, its only the low power Tx. Various probelms with configuration / EMC stop me using the big jobbie for these tests - anyway, it wouldn't be fair would it, jamming all that wide band CW traffic :-( Andy 'JNT -----Original Message----- From: Dave Pick To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 06 January 2002 12:34 Subject: LF: Re: GPS Coherent PSK Transmission > >Is that Andy with a full power data transmission in the middle of the CW >area..... on a Sunday? >Someone might go off in huff if this carries on! > >Dave >G3YXM. > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15815 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 12:32:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 12:32:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 24922 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 12:32:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 12:32:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NCS2-0000x2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 12:30:58 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NCS1-0000wx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 12:30:57 +0000 Received: from host217-35-44-222.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.44.222] helo=dellboy) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16NCRG-0002Y8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 12:30:10 +0000 Message-ID: <002101c196ad$e48f7500$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001e01c1969b$d2a042a0$c18801d4@g4jnt> Subject: LF: Re: GPS Coherent PSK Transmission Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 12:30:11 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Is that Andy with a full power data transmission in the middle of the CW area..... on a Sunday? Someone might go off in huff if this carries on! Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14654 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 11:22:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 11:22:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 27207 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 11:22:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 11:22:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NBMQ-0000nS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 11:21:06 +0000 Received: from mail4.dada.it ([195.110.96.56] helo=mail.dada.it) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NBMP-0000nN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 11:21:05 +0000 Received: (qmail 11964 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 11:20:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cestag) (195.110.103.177) by mail.dada.it with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 11:20:09 -0000 Message-ID: <000901c196a3$f2f59160$b1676ec3@cestag> From: "cesare tagliabue" To: "LF group" Subject: LF: good condx Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 12:18:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
        Hello Markus
    Many thanks for this new QRSS/DFCW QSO, Your signal was also clearly audible on speaker. I'll make ready my TX for DFCW very soon, so any QSO will be appreciably speeded.  73  Cesare
 
Cesare Tagliabue   I 5 TGC
WW-Loc  JN53PS
e-mail: cestag@dada.it
url: http://www.dadacasa.com/i5tgc
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11325 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 10:24:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 10:24:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 28775 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 10:24:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 10:24:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NAQv-0000ep-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 10:21:41 +0000 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16NAQv-0000ek-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 10:21:41 +0000 Received: from [212.1.148.93] (helo=g4jnt) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 16NAKT-00060O-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 10:15:01 +0000 Message-ID: <001e01c1969b$d2a042a0$c18801d4@g4jnt> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: GPS Coherent PSK Transmission Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 10:20:49 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The GPS locked 30s element PSK transmission on 136718.75 was going all last night. Bill de Carle VE2IQ got part of the sequence and could definitely make out that there were two phase states, but unfortunately could not decode all of it correctly. The actual sequence sent was 01010011 and he got part of the sequence correctly after integrating results over several hours. Part way to Transatlatic on 0.001 Watt ERP maybe ? The transmission will be going again tonight from around 1800z, on the same frequency of 7/256 * 5MHz = 136718.75 Hz but with a different 8 bit sequence of data; 30s signalling elements synchronised to the hour. Any change to this schedule will be posted here. Andy G4JNT From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4429 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 09:45:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 09:45:39 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 7808 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 09:45:40 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 09:45:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16N9lF-0000ZZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 09:38:37 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16N9lE-0000ZU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 09:38:36 +0000 Received: from ldsas06-70-121-56.cw-visp.com ([212.137.121.56] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16N9Zu-0004ar-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 09:26:55 +0000 Message-ID: <3C37446E.88929A19@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 18:22:38 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: re-107 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks to all that responded to my request for info abt the tip107. Much appreciated de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25375 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 01:56:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 01:56:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9442 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 01:56:46 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 01:56:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16N2VZ-0008Nh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 01:53:57 +0000 Received: from smtp2.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.35.138] helo=smtp.wanadoo.nl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16N2VY-0008Nc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 06 Jan 2002 01:53:56 +0000 Received: from nl9222 (p0913.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.202.150]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id g061r6804399 for ; Sun, 6 Jan 2002 02:53:06 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <200201060153.g061r6804399@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Sun, 6 Jan 2002 2:53:5 +0000 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: TA at 01:45z X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Still active at 01:45z..... G4FTC 135924.37 -36.6 DJ2LF 135924.17 -51.8 DF6NM 135922.73/83 -40.8 IK5ZPV 135921.20 -42.9 [Transmission ended just after 00:20z] 73 Ko, NL9222 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26529 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 00:02:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 00:02:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28482 invoked from network); 6 Jan 2002 00:02:22 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jan 2002 00:02:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16N0hl-00087f-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 23:58:25 +0000 Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.162]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16N0hk-00087a-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 23:58:24 +0000 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.cc.4797cc0 (18254) for ; Sat, 5 Jan 2002 18:57:31 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 18:57:31 EST Subject: LF: Eu freqs 5./6. Jan To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 72 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Good evening dear TA watchers, right now (23:40) I can see - 924.02 G4FTC (qrss) - 923.83 DJ2LF (qrss 60s) - 922.30 /.40 DF6NM (dfcw, now 100s+33s) - 920.88 IK5ZPV (qrss), all of us just fitting into Argo's 3.4 Hz width. Rich OM2TW and Geri DK8KW will probably not be QRV tonight. Good luck es have a nice sunday Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27935 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2002 20:03:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jan 2002 20:03:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 10763 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2002 20:03:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jan 2002 20:03:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Mwwi-0007kT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 19:57:36 +0000 Received: from cobalt9-he.global.net.uk ([195.147.246.169]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Mwwh-0007kO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 19:57:35 +0000 Received: from p58s09a07.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.233.89] helo=drawing) by cobalt9-he.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 3.03 #1) id 16Mwwt-0004oW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 19:57:48 +0000 Message-ID: <000d01c19622$ff22a6c0$59e993c3@drawing> From: "David Sparvell" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200201041409_MC3-ECB3-FB69@compuserve.com> <00dc01c1955f$c6048020$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> Subject: LF: QRSS Test Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 19:54:47 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, I've just started an overnight QRSS test on 135.924kHz using 60 second dots. Due to the anticipated demands upon my available time from other activities - such as work - this will probably be the last test for some while. Reports and screenshots would be appreciated once again. May I thank all those who have provided reports on my transmissions over the recent Christmas and New Year period. 73's David G4FTC From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11696 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2002 19:47:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jan 2002 19:47:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27558 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2002 19:47:20 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jan 2002 19:47:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Mwk9-0007i1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 19:44:37 +0000 Received: from smtp1.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.91] helo=mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Mwk8-0007hw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 19:44:36 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.104.57]) by mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Sat, 5 Jan 2002 15:34:09 -0400 Message-ID: <3C379BED.344B6548@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 19:35:57 -0500 From: "john currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 136 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all , believe I saw Rich OM2TW last night thanks from freq info from Markus. Tonight will be looking with 60 sec dots . I want to see if I can identify DJ2LF and IK5ZPV. They were both off my screen last night. 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10967 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2002 18:24:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jan 2002 18:24:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 16343 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2002 18:24:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jan 2002 18:24:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MvTa-0007Y5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 18:23:26 +0000 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MvTZ-0007Y0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 18:23:25 +0000 Received: from [212.1.136.143] (helo=g4jnt) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 16MvNF-0000O9-00; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 18:16:53 +0000 Message-ID: <000401c19615$f6548b60$8f8801d4@g4jnt> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: "Andrew Talbot" , "LF Group" Subject: LF: Re: Coherent PSK Test transmission, correction Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 18:22:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: OOPS Sorry, Typing error The exact frequency is 136718.75 Hz for the low power BPSK test transmission (not .25 as stated earlier) The frequency is exactly equal to 7 / 256 * 5 MHz Andy G4JNT From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4202 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2002 18:21:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jan 2002 18:21:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 12884 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2002 18:21:08 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jan 2002 18:21:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MvPs-0007WT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 18:19:36 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MvPr-0007WN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 18:19:35 +0000 Received: from ldsas02-66-117-53.cw-visp.com ([212.137.117.53] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16MvEZ-0005u1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 18:07:56 +0000 Message-ID: <3C374390.66D51269@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 18:18:57 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: dxcluster Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------030903080400050101040302" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030903080400050101040302 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit     year 2001 136 KHz spots downloaded and atached from DX Summit. 73 Phil --------------030903080400050101040302 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252; name="G3KEV Spots.htm" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="G3KEV Spots.htm" PFRJVExFPkRYLVN1bW1pdDogU3BvdCBEYXRhYmFzZSBTZWFyY2ggUmVzdWx0czwvVElUTEU+ CjxQUkU+CjxIMz4KRFgtU1VNTUlUIFNwb3QgRGF0YWJhc2U6PC9IMz4KSUsxSFNTICAgICAg MTM2LjIgRzNLRVYgICAgICAgY3EgNDM1ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgMTYyNiAx NCBPY3QgMjAwMQ0KREoxWUZLICAgICAgMTM2LjIgRzNLRVYgICAgICAgKDUzOSkgd2l0aCBv aDF0biAoMzE5KSAgICAgICAgMTgxNiAxNCBPY3QgMjAwMQ0KT00yVFcgICAgICAgMTM2LjIg RzNLRVYgICAgICAgQ1Egc3Ryb25nICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgMTkxMCAxNCBPY3Qg MjAwMQ0KT00yVFcgICAgICAgMTM2LjggRzNLRVYgICAgICAgaW4gUVNPIHdpdGggbWUuLi5z dHJvbmcgICAgICAgMTg1MyAxNSBPY3QgMjAwMQ0KT00yVFcgICAgICAgMTM3LjAgRzNLRVYg ICAgICAgc3Ryb25nLi4uICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgMTkwNyAxNyBPY3QgMjAwMQ0K UzU3QSAgICAgICAgMTM3LjAgRzNLRVYgICAgICAgNTk5IHdhdXV1dSEhISAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgMjAwOSAxNyBPY3QgMjAwMQ0KRjVPSUggICAgICAgMTM2LjUgRzNLRVYgICAgICAg Y3EgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgMTc1OCAxOCBPY3QgMjAwMQ0KT00yVFcg ICAgICAgMTM2LjIgRzNLRVYgICAgICAgc3Ryb25nLi4uY3EgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg MTAwMCAyMCBPY3QgMjAwMQ0KREs4S1cgICAgICAgMTM2LjQgRzNLRVYgICAgICAgY3EgY3Eg cXN4IDcwMjAga0h6ICAgICAgICAgICAgMTEwMCAyMCBPY3QgMjAwMQ0KREYwV0QgICAgICAg MTM2LjMgRzNLRVYgICAgICAgY3EgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgMTUyOCAy MCBPY3QgMjAwMQ0KREw2U04gICAgICAgMTM2LjYgRzNLRVYgICAgICAgaW4gcXNvIERMM0ZE TyAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgMTg1MCAyMiBPY3QgMjAwMQ0KREs3U1UgICAgICAxODAwLjAg RzNLRVYgICAgICAgMTM2LjZraHogQ1EgQ1EgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBHMTM0NiAyNiBPY3Qg MjAwMQ0KREw2U04gICAgICAgMTM2LjcgRzNLRVYgICAgICAgY3EgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgMTMzMyAyOCBPY3QgMjAwMQ0KREs3U1UgICAgICAxODAwLjAgRzNLRVYg ICAgICAgMTM3IGtoeiBDUSBDUSAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgMTM1NiAxNCBOb3YgMjAwMQ0K REw2U04gICAgICAgMTM2LjcgRzNLRVYgICAgICAgY3EgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgMTg0MCAxNiBOb3YgMjAwMQ0KT00yVFcgICAgICAgMTM2LjIgRzNLRVYgICAgICAg Y3EgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgMTAyOCAwOCBEZWMgMjAwMQ0KREwxU0FO ICAgICAgMTM2LjUgRzNLRVYgICAgICAgNTU5IGluIHFzbyB3aXRoIG9tMnR3ICAgICAgICBH MDk1MyAwOSBEZWMgMjAwMQ0KT00xQk0gICAgICAgMTM2LjUgRzNLRVYgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgMTAzNCAwOSBEZWMgMjAwMQ0KREwxU0FOICAgICAg MTM2LjYgRzNLRVYgICAgICAgNTU5IGluIHFzbyB3aWQgZjZid28gNTM5ICAgICAgMTkyNiAx NCBEZWMgMjAwMQ0KREwxU0FOICAgICAgMTM2LjQgRzNLRVYgICAgICAgNTU5IGNxICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICBHMTAwNiAxNiBEZWMgMjAwMQ0KREoxWUZLICAgICAgMTM2LjUg RzNLRVYgICAgICAgY2xnIEdJM09RUiAobm8gY3B5KSAgICAgICAgICAgMTEzMiAxNiBEZWMg MjAwMQ0KREoxWUZLICAgICAgMTM2LjUgRzNLRVYgICAgICAgY2xnIEVJM0NaICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICBHMTI0NiAyMiBEZWMgMjAwMQ0KSEE2UEMgICAgICAgMTM2LjQgRzNLRVYg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgMDk1NCAyNSBEZWMgMjAwMQ0K SEE2UEMgICAgICAgMTM2LjMgRzNLRVYgICAgICAgY3EuLi4gICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAg ICAgICAgMTI1OCAyNSBEZWMgMjAwMQ0KREw2U04gICAgICAgMTM2LjIgRzNLRVYgICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgMTMzMiAyNSBEZWMgMjAwMQ0KICAgICAg ICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgICAgLi0uLS4KPC9QUkU+Cg0KDQo= --------------030903080400050101040302-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5203 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2002 18:17:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jan 2002 18:17:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 1053 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2002 18:17:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jan 2002 18:17:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MvLr-0007Ve-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 18:15:27 +0000 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MvLq-0007VZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 18:15:26 +0000 Received: from [212.1.152.10] (helo=g4jnt) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #1) id 16MvFU-0007ED-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 18:08:53 +0000 Message-ID: <001701c19614$d7d72cc0$0a9801d4@g4jnt> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Coherent PSK Test transmission Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 18:14:36 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I will be radiating a low power (about 4 watts RF, 1mW ERP) test transmission this evening (Saturday) using 30s BPSK with the transitions locked to GPS plus a few microseconds. The data sequence is 8 bits long and synchronised to the hour, repeating every 4 minutes. The exact frequency is 136718.25Hz (to do with DDS resolution using a 5MHz clock). Accuracy is within 3*10^-10 which means that during the 4 minute sequence interval, absolute phase should drift by no more than 4 degrees. No prize, but kudos, to the first person to work out the data sequence. To resolve the phase ambiguity problem, assume the first bit sent at the reference point is a '0' Andy G4JNT From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15778 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2002 16:09:53 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jan 2002 16:09:53 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18335 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2002 16:09:46 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jan 2002 16:09:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MtKf-0007F2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 16:06:05 +0000 Received: from galahad.joust.net ([63.108.136.2] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MtKe-0007Ex-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 16:06:04 +0000 Received: from benny-hill (p3-138-073.joust.net [63.108.138.73]) by galahad.joust.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id g05G5D418684 for ; Sat, 5 Jan 2002 11:05:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <200201051605.g05G5D418684@galahad.joust.net> Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 11:04:09 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Steve Dove" Subject: LF: Huff-Puff X-Mailer: Opera 5.02 build 856a X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings, Happy New Year to all, I went looking for info on this some time ago in order to bring some stability into my life and an old Eddystone. This place is a treasure trove of nearly everything that's been published on it: http://www.hanssummers.com/radio/huffpuff/contents.htm Cheers, Steve W3EEE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11120 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2002 13:30:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jan 2002 13:30:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8802 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2002 13:30:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jan 2002 13:30:25 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Mqsp-0006wU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 13:29:11 +0000 Received: from mailout10.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.21]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Mqso-0006wP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 13:29:10 +0000 Received: from fwd03.sul.t-online.de by mailout10.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 16Mqs3-00062m-01; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 14:28:23 +0100 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.157.50.36]) by fwd03.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16Mqrm-0OLvY8C; Sat, 5 Jan 2002 14:28:06 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C36E4D4.282FBBCD@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: Re: LF: TIP 107 X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 14:28:06 +0100 Message-ID: <16Mqrm-0OLvY8C@fwd03.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: gii3kev schrieb: > Does anyone have info about this transistor pse. Cannot find this > particular one in any data book that I have. > Tnx de Mal/G3KEV > Hi Mal, TIP 107 is a Si-P-Darl+Di. Comparisontypes: BD650, BD902, BDW74C..D, BDX54C..F. regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17686 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2002 13:17:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jan 2002 13:17:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 12495 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2002 13:17:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jan 2002 13:17:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Mqfx-0006uS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 13:15:53 +0000 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Mqfw-0006uN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 13:15:53 +0000 Received: from host217-35-44-222.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.44.222] helo=dellboy) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16Mqf9-0006B9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 13:15:03 +0000 Message-ID: <002001c195ea$ff32f4e0$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C36E4D4.282FBBCD@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: TIP 107 Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 13:15:04 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mal. It's PNP silicon, VCEmax=100V, ICmax=8A, Diss 80W, Ft=4MHz, HFe 1000 (must be a darlington) equiv to BD652 says Towers. If you place the device heat-transferring surface downward, with the legs facing you it goes BCE from left to right. Cheers. Dave G3YXM ----- Original Message ----- From: "gii3kev" To: "rsgb rsgb" Sent: Saturday, January 05, 2002 11:34 AM Subject: LF: TIP 107 > Does anyone have info about this transistor pse. Cannot find this > particular one in any data book that I have. > Tnx de Mal/G3KEV > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21421 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2002 11:40:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jan 2002 11:40:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1171 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2002 11:40:32 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jan 2002 11:40:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Mp6q-0006kE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 11:35:32 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Mp6p-0006k8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 11:35:31 +0000 Received: from ldsas11-75-126-114.cw-visp.com ([212.137.126.114] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16MovQ-00064W-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 11:23:45 +0000 Message-ID: <3C36E4D4.282FBBCD@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 11:34:44 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: TIP 107 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Does anyone have info about this transistor pse. Cannot find this particular one in any data book that I have. Tnx de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5730 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2002 06:28:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jan 2002 06:28:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 24060 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2002 06:28:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jan 2002 06:28:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MkBh-0006JP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 06:20:13 +0000 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MkBg-0006JK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 06:20:12 +0000 Received: from host213-1-144-149.btinternet.com ([213.1.144.149] helo=dave) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16MkAq-0001Kp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 06:19:21 +0000 Message-ID: <000001c195b1$23271b40$959001d5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C685@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Request to any (relative) OTs out there ! Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 20:04:07 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Andy will find an updated version of the huff and puff, using a CD4013 counter, in Technical Topics in the April 1978 issue. This is a reprint of the version which appeared in Ham Radio December 1977. As Andy mentions, most of the articles on the earlier version appeared in 1973-4 - I have those issues (I have every one since 1969 and quite a few before) but they are not immediately accessible. 73s Dave dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18214 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2002 04:26:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jan 2002 04:26:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 29171 invoked from network); 5 Jan 2002 04:27:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jan 2002 04:27:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MiN2-00067C-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 04:23:48 +0000 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MiN0-000677-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 05 Jan 2002 04:23:47 +0000 Received: from steve (ppp211.dyn154.pacific.net.au [210.23.154.211]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id PAA27952 for ; Sat, 5 Jan 2002 15:22:51 +1100 Message-ID: <010f01c195a1$7b0ff080$b79a17d2@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <13.4590407.2964e9ce@aol.com> Subject: Re: LF: Very slow DFCW Date: Sat, 5 Jan 2002 15:28:37 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G'day Wolf, > >Hope this answers your question a bit. > Completely. Thanks. > >Good luck and happy experimenting ! >73 Wolf DL4YHF. > Und zu Ihnen auch. 73s Steve VK2ZTO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27939 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 23:03:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 23:03:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15967 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 23:03:09 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 23:03:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MdGL-0005PM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 22:56:33 +0000 Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.101]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MdGK-0005PE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 22:56:32 +0000 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.ad.160917fe (4387) for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 17:55:37 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 17:55:36 EST Subject: LF: Re 136: Eu frequencies To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 72 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear John 'ZJ, on 2./3. of January, there were activities on - 924.01 G4FTC (qrss) - 923.78 DJ2LF (qrss 60s) - 922.30 /.40 DF6NM (dfcw) - 922.13 OM2TW (qrss 120s) - 921.53 /.63 G3AQC (dfcw) - 921.1 +-.02 IK5ZPV (qrss). Last night (3./4.), I saw only Rich and myself transmitting, but I haven't looked during the early morning hours. Tonight, up to now - 923.84 DJ2LF (since 21:46) - 922.05 OM2TW - 921.49 /.59 G3AQC (since 22:37) - abt 920.98 IK5ZPV (since 21:40) have shown up. There is a Loran line on 135923.70, also visible in John 'TAG's and strong in Dexter's shots. On the captures you sent to me, the frequency ruler looked 0.4 Hz high. 73 and best wishes Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19651 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 20:58:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 20:58:05 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10890 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 20:58:05 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 20:58:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MbN5-0005Az-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 20:55:23 +0000 Received: from siaag1ab.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MbN4-0005Au-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 20:55:22 +0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id PAA26851 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 15:54:01 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 15:53:29 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: No activity tonight from DK8KW ;-( To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200201041553_MC3-EC99-A2@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ... because my PA died ... Will repair tomorrow and give it another try next night ... Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14206 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 20:39:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 20:39:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 21833 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 20:39:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 20:39:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Mb5U-00057e-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 20:37:12 +0000 Received: from ligarius-fe0.ultra.net ([146.115.8.189]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Mb5S-00057Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 20:37:11 +0000 Received: from comrex (216-164-248-206.s2682.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com [216.164.248.206]) by ligarius-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n26500/mtc.v2) with SMTP id PAA20878 for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 15:36:21 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00dc01c1955f$c6048020$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200201041409_MC3-ECB3-FB69@compuserve.com> Subject: LF: Re: Where do W4DEX and W1TAG post screenshots? Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 15:38:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Geri, >I lost a couple of e-mails. Can someone help me out: what are the URLs where Dex and John post their screenshots?< Mine is at: http://webpages.charter.net/w1tag/cap-1.jpg ...and it's up and running right now. My local sunset is at 2130 UTC. Dex's is at: http://www.gostanly.com/w4dex/135kHz.jpg I'm not sure if he will be running his gear tonight. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14922 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 20:11:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 20:11:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23492 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 20:11:07 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 20:11:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Mad4-00053W-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 20:07:50 +0000 Received: from smtp1.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.91] helo=mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Mad3-00053R-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 20:07:50 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.102.191]) by mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 16:08:21 -0400 Message-ID: <3C365270.4B62BEBA@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 20:10:08 -0500 From: "john currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 136 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: hi all , about last night. Condx were not very good. I am not sure of my freq. Last night I saw 0n 922.3 what looked like "d e s " on qrss around 0100. To check freq, later I saw DF6NM on same freq. Markus was not as strong as other nights but He was "M" copy and I saw his signals until 0744Z. At time when Markus was strongest , 05to 06 Z, there was another station. It was 0.5Hz higher than Markus and could have been DFCW with smaller offset than Markus. If anyone wants, I have pictures. Tonight I will be looking for OM2TW with 120 sec dots 135.922.0 If anyone sees Rich I would appreciate a word on his freq 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3984 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 19:37:07 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 19:37:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 20436 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 19:37:08 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 19:37:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Ma6r-0004vi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 19:34:33 +0000 Received: from mozart.earthlight.co.nz ([202.36.170.3] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Ma6p-0004vd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 19:34:32 +0000 Received: from andrewss.earthlight.co.nz (ppp43.earthlight.co.nz [202.36.170.43]) by mozart.earthlight.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id IAA19920; Sat, 5 Jan 2002 08:33:39 +1300 X-Authentication-Warning: mozart.earthlight.co.nz: Host ppp43.earthlight.co.nz [202.36.170.43] claimed to be andrewss.earthlight.co.nz Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020105073318.00949df0@pop.earthlight.co.nz> X-Sender: andrewss@pop.earthlight.co.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 05 Jan 2002 07:33:18 +1200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Stan Andrews" Subject: LF: APOLOGY MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, My apologies to all who have recieved a personal message NOT meant for general circulation. Compliments of the Season to All. 73 Stan, ZL4MB.. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16406 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 19:14:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 19:14:33 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 25372 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 19:14:33 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 19:14:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MZkT-0004ns-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 19:11:25 +0000 Received: from siaag1ad.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MZkS-0004nm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 19:11:24 +0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ad.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id OAA01581 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 14:10:06 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 14:09:18 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Where do W4DEX and W1TAG post screenshots? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200201041409_MC3-ECB3-FB69@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LF-Gang, I lost a couple of e-mails. Can someone help me out: what are the URLs where Dex and John post their screenshots? Thanks Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13958 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 18:11:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 18:11:00 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 13442 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 18:11:00 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 18:11:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MYlF-0004eu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 18:08:10 +0000 Received: from mailout02.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.17]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MYlD-0004ep-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 18:08:07 +0000 Received: from fwd06.sul.t-online.de by mailout02.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 16MYh6-0005hy-02; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 19:03:52 +0100 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.157.50.27]) by fwd06.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16MYgu-1o2bUvC; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 19:03:40 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C685@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> <3C358C9D.C4B868FB@usa.net> Subject: LF: idle FSK X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------010405050800000002060509" Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 19:03:40 +0100 Message-ID: <16MYgu-1o2bUvC@fwd06.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010405050800000002060509 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, four days ago I observed an emission on 135,67kHz vy instable, little fading, mode FSK in high speed but only idle.it was hours ZOA and vy strong. the spurii made it impossible listening for AT signs. I hope it will never come back agn. see attached pic. regards Uwe/dj8wx --------------010405050800000002060509 Content-Type: image/gif; name="IDLEFS~1.GIF" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="IDLEFS~1.GIF" R0lGODdhvQKVAfcAAAAAAAAAQAAAgAAA/wAgAAAgQAAggAAg/wBAAABAQABAgABA/wBgAABg QABggABg/wCAAACAQACAgACA/wCgAACgQACggACg/wDAAADAQADAgADA/wD/AAD/QAD/gAD/ /yAAACAAQCAAgCAA/yAgACAgQCAggCAg/yBAACBAQCBAgCBA/yBgACBgQCBggCBg/yCAACCA QCCAgCCA/yCgACCgQCCggCCg/yDAACDAQCDAgCDA/yD/ACD/QCD/gCD//0AAAEAAQEAAgEAA /0AgAEAgQEAggEAg/0BAAEBAQEBAgEBA/0BgAEBgQEBggEBg/0CAAECAQECAgECA/0CgAECg QECggECg/0DAAEDAQEDAgEDA/0D/AED/QED/gED//2AAAGAAQGAAgGAA/2AgAGAgQGAggGAg /2BAAGBAQGBAgGBA/2BgAGBgQGBggGBg/2CAAGCAQGCAgGCA/2CgAGCgQGCggGCg/2DAAGDA QGDAgGDA/2D/AGD/QGD/gGD//4AAAIAAQIAAgIAA/4AgAIAgQIAggIAg/4BAAIBAQIBAgIBA /4BgAIBgQIBggIBg/4CAAICAQICAgICA/4CgAICgQICggICg/4DAAIDAQIDAgIDA/4D/AID/ QID/gID//6AAAKAAQKAAgKAA/6AgAKAgQKAggKAg/6BAAKBAQKBAgKBA/6BgAKBgQKBggKBg 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pm+m5k1PabswXqRCVz1BWg/72aud9LbvpewBIE13036qt/h876c6ScQFP8hqA0Hui/+X1n+7 +Ld/PvSjL/3pU7/61r8+9rOv/e1zv/ve/z74wy/+8ZO//OY/P/rTr/71s7/97n8//OMv//nT v/72vxQ//vOv//3zv//+/z8ABqAADiABFlqgAR4gAiagAi4gAzagAz4gBEagBE4gBVagBV4g BmagBm4gB3agB34gCIagCI4gCZagCZ4gCqagCq4gC7agC74gDMagDM4gDdagDd4gDuagDu4g D/agD/4gEAZHoRAOIREWoREeIRImoRIuIRM2oRM+IRRGoRROIRVWoRVeIRZmoRZuIRd2oRd+ IRiGoRiOIRmWoRmeIRqmoRquIRu2oRu+IRw8xqEcziEd1qEd3iEe5qEe7iEf9qEf/iEgBqIg DiIhFqIhHiIiJqIiLiIjNqIjPiIkRqIkTiIlVqIlXiImNGaiJm4iJ3aiJ34iKIaiKI4iKZai KZ4iKqaiKq4iK7aiK74iLMaiLM4iLdaiLd4iLuaiLu4yIi/2oi/+IjAGozAOIzEWozEeIzIm ozIuIzM2ozM+IzRGozROIzVWozVeIzZmozZuIzctdqM3fiM4hqM4jiM5lqM5niM6pqM6riM7 tqM7viM8xqM8ziM91qM93iM+5qM+KO4jP/ajP/4jQAakQA4kQRakQR4kQiakQi4kQzakQz4k REakRE4kRVYppEVeJEZmpEZuJEd2pEd+JEiGpEiOJEmWpEmeJEqmpEquJEu2pEu+JEwkxqRM ziRN1qRN3iRO5qRO7iRP9qRP/iRQBqVQDiVRFqVRHiVSJCalUi4lUzalUz4lVEalVE4lVVal VV4lVmalVm4lV3alV34lWCKGpViOJVmWpVmeJVqmpVquJVu2pVu+JVzGpVzOJV3WpV3eICVe 5qVe7iVf9qVf/iVgBqZgDiZhFqZhHiZiJqZiLiZjHzamYz4mZEamZE4mZVamZV4mZmamZm4m Z3amZ34maIYepmiOJmmWpmmeJmqmpmquJmu2pmu+JmzGpmzOJm3WHqZt3iZu5qZu7iZv9qZv /iZwBqdwDidxFqdxHidyJhunci4nczancz4ndEandE4ndVandV4ndnpkQAAAOw== --------------010405050800000002060509-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7595 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 17:14:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 17:14:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 6394 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 17:14:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 17:14:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MXsS-0004Up-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 17:11:32 +0000 Received: from [212.204.115.10] (helo=hugo.fen-net.de ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MXsQ-0004Uk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 17:11:31 +0000 Received: from DEFAULT (dialin-nbg-078.fen-net.de [212.204.116.78]) by hugo.fen-net.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA28510 for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 18:13:03 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <002a01c19543$d5312600$4e74ccd4@DEFAULT> From: "Walter" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Activity tonight from DK8KW Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 18:18:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by hugo.fen-net.de id SAA28510 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Lieber Holger, bin erfreut, von Deiner Aktivität zu lesen. Aber zunächst alles Gute für das neue (Euro-)-Jahr, Gesundheit und Reisen ohne Angst vor Terrorismus. Deine QRG 923.3 scheint aus meiner Sicht in Ordnung zu sein. Wir werden dann nahe Nachbarn, bin auf 923.73 wenn der Generator kalt ist, d.h. Zimmertemperatur. Durch die Eigenerwärmung wandert er leicht nach oben, zum Glück weg von der Loran-Linie auf 923.7. Dann viel Erfolg. Wie bist Du denn ausgerüstet? Meine Bildchen waren sowohl bei VE1ZJ als auch bei W1TAG bisher nur zu ahnen. 73 Walter DJ2LF -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Holger 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW An: INTERNET:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Datum: Freitag, 4. Januar 2002 08:31 Betreff: LF: Activity tonight from DK8KW >Hello LF-group, > >I intend to join in the transatlantic club tonight. Any objections that I >use > > 135923.3 kHz plus 0.1 Hz DFCW > >or is this frequency in use? > >Thanks, best 73 and a very happy New Year to all of you! > >Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24481 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 17:09:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 17:09:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1128 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 17:09:39 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 17:09:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MXnQ-0004T3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 17:06:20 +0000 Received: from smtp1.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.91] helo=mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MXnO-0004Sy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 17:06:19 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.91.83]) by mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 13:06:36 -0400 Message-ID: <3C3627DA.E6EDADBE@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 17:08:26 -0500 From: "john currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: 136 References: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E0333C131@btss103a.swh.sk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Rich I'll be looking for you 120 sec dots 73 de John VE1ZJ Gasparik Richard wrote: > Hi John... > > I'm still transmiting during the night on 135.922 QRSS120. I'll try > to drive more power with another power supply. During the daytime I'll be on > 137.700 QRSS3 looking for some Europeans. Look for me...have a nice weekend. > > Best regards.... > > 73 de Rich OM2TW > > -----Original Message----- > From: john currie [mailto:john.currie@ns.sympatico.ca] > Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 6:32 AM > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: 136 > > Hi all late tonight, Last night saw JTC,AQC,es 6NM. Also what looked > like amateur station 0.3Hz below JTC . it might be another Loran Line. > Was not that good a night > Will start now to look 0028Z > 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4271 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 16:05:49 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 16:05:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8462 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 16:05:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 16:05:49 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MWmU-0004FM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 16:01:18 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MWmS-0004FH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 16:01:16 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16MWlg-0007WF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 16:00:28 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16MWlb-0004JM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 16:00:23 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020104120232.00a6c0f8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 16:00:01 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: Re: m-FSK: SNR vs bandwidth In-reply-to: <000001c19492$b78b99c0$bbb51bca@xtr743187> References: <169.68ea4ad.2964d7e6@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, I seem to be the only station so far that has had some success with both WOLF BPSK and 7FSK modes over transatlantic paths, so here is my comparison: W!TAG was able to get perfect copy on my WOLF signal, so BPSK definitely does work for DX communication; however, he remains the only transatlantic station to do so, in spite of weeks of trying. In part this can be put down to the varagies of propagation, but also many people struggled to get WOLF to work well. The reason for this seems to be mainly the requirement for accurate frequency and timing calibration (of the order of 1ppm), not a trivial problem to overcome since the equipment most people are using was not really designed with this in mind. Operation of the software and hardware is not intuitive like QRSS/spectrogram programs.Transmitting using this mode is relatively difficult too; although very simple QRP transmitters are possible, envelope shaping is required for higher powers to avoid causing unacceptable QRM, making high power transmitters significantly more complex. In the context of the European 136k band, the bandwidth of some 10s of Hz required by Wolf would be a problem if the mode was being used by several stations simultaneously. None of these are fundamental limitations - ingenious frequency calibration schemes have been devised, some success has been had with modified "variable phase" keying to control sidebands without amplitude modulation, it would be possible to use narrower bandwidths for BPSK too. However, BPSK does require significant time and effort on the technical side to get working. I would not claim any great technical superiority of 7FSK over other modes, but from a pragmatic viewpoint it has several good points. It can be generated by a simple extension of existing DFCW techniques, and received using the spectrogram software that people are familiar with. The frequency accuracy required is much more relaxed (of the order of 10ppm on receive), and timing accuracy isn't really an issue. The bandwidth, although greater than that of QRSS, is small enough. In its short history, readable 7FSK has already been received by a number of transatlantic stations, so it definitely works too. The big advantage is of course in the increased speed compared to QRSS. As for the SNR vs. bandwidth considerations, other subscribers to this reflector have more expertise than me - but I would observe the following: Both QRSS and 7FSK are made up of dots, so the probability of any one dot being corrupted by noise is the same. However, 7FSK transmits on 1 of 7 possible frequencies, while QRSS uses only one, so it is 7 times more likely that a corrupted dot will appear in a 7FSK signal in a given period of time. However, fewer dots are required by 7FSK to send the same number of characters by a factor of about 5.5, so the relative probability of a character being corrupted in 7FSK compared to QRSS would be 7/5.5, ie. 1.3 times as likely; not very different - about 1dB. I realise this is only approximately true, not considering redundancy and so on, and would apply only when the ratio of corrupted dots to uncorrupted is small, but you would need this anyway for a QSO, and the tests over Christmas and before show that these conditions do exist fairly often. I think long-distance LF communications can be done with either of these modes, and probably many others too. Theoretically, I think the more sophisticated modes like BPSK will win out, but will always have limited popularity due to the more elaborate technical requirements. A mode like 7FSK may not ultimately be as good, but it is quick and easy to get going and operate. It is interesting that in the US Lowfer community this winter has seen an explosion in the number of QRSS beacons and reception reports, while last winter WOLF BPSK was a la mode. The distances being covered don't seem to be much different, but more people are getting results. Where there is an unpredictable element involved, like propagation, the chances of the success of any particular mode are going to be tied up with how many people have the capability and the inclination to use it - a technically mediocre mode in use by 100 stations will probably get more positive results than an excellent one being used by only two stations. This is no excuse for complacency of course, but factors like ease of implementation, compatibility, inertia and "does it match the curtains?" all comes in to how successful something is - just look at the history of the personal computer! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29271 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 13:06:54 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 13:06:54 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17558 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 13:06:55 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 13:06:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MTyX-0003q7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 13:01:33 +0000 Received: from ns3.swh.sk ([192.108.125.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MTyV-0003pw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 13:01:32 +0000 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes.swh.sk [192.108.125.60]) by ns3.swh.sk (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g04D0Yk13946 for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 14:00:34 +0100 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id OAA14814 for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 14:00:25 +0100 (MET) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 14:00:23 +0100 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E0333C131@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: 136 Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 14:00:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi John... I'm still transmiting during the night on 135.922 QRSS120. I'll try to drive more power with another power supply. During the daytime I'll be on 137.700 QRSS3 looking for some Europeans. Look for me...have a nice weekend. Best regards.... 73 de Rich OM2TW -----Original Message----- From: john currie [mailto:john.currie@ns.sympatico.ca] Sent: Friday, January 04, 2002 6:32 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 136 Hi all late tonight, Last night saw JTC,AQC,es 6NM. Also what looked like amateur station 0.3Hz below JTC . it might be another Loran Line. Was not that good a night Will start now to look 0028Z 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25916 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 11:10:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 11:10:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1020 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 11:10:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 11:10:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MSCP-0003az-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 11:07:45 +0000 Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.101]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MSCO-0003au-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 11:07:45 +0000 Received: from northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (northrelay01.pok.ibm.com [9.117.200.21]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA251106 for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 06:03:24 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss4.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.69]) by northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g04B6C939742 for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 06:06:17 -0500 Message-ID: <3C358C9D.C4B868FB@usa.net> Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 12:06:06 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Request to any (relative) OTs out there ! References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C685@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Talbot Andrew wrote: > I'm looking for the reference to the Huff-Puff stabilisation scheme, and in > particular the improved Mark 2 modified version that, seem to recall, > employed a counter rather than a simple flip-flop. It almost certainly > appeared in Radio Communication in the 1970s, and from what I remember of > talk in my local radio club in those days, was probably around 1973 - 74. > Maybe you already know it, but, are you aware of this page ? http://www.hanssummers.com/radio/huffpuff/contents.htm Lot of useful information on the Huff & Puff technique. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8130 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 10:26:56 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 10:26:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22652 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 10:26:53 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 10:26:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MRVq-0003Uu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 10:23:46 +0000 Received: from gateg.kw.bbc.co.uk ([132.185.132.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MRVp-0003Ub-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 10:23:45 +0000 Received: from sunf0.rd.bbc.co.uk (ddmailgate.rd.bbc.co.uk [132.185.128.104]) by gateg.kw.bbc.co.uk (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id g04ALgh02736 for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 10:21:42 GMT Received: from pc523 by sunf0.rd.bbc.co.uk; Fri, 4 Jan 02 10:21:41 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20020104102140.0110f450@pop3> X-Sender: simonlh@pop3 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 10:21:40 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Simon Lloyd-Hughes" Subject: Re: LF: Request to any (relative) OTs out there ! In-reply-to: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C685@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.go v.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andy, If you have the Technical Topics compendiums a number of circuits appear in them. There was also an article in Elektor At 09:22 04/01/02 -0000, you wrote: >A request for anyone out there who was receiving RadCom or any other >magazine, before I joined in 1975...... > >I'm looking for the reference to the Huff-Puff stabilisation scheme, and in >particular the improved Mark 2 modified version that, seem to recall, >employed a counter rather than a simple flip-flop. It almost certainly >appeared in Radio Communication in the 1970s, and from what I remember of >talk in my local radio club in those days, was probably around 1973 - 74. > >Have a feeling I'm in the process of 're-inventing' it for a high stability >GPS locked source for low data rate signalling, and don't want to claim the >credit for an idea that appeared over a quarter of a centuary ago! > >With a PIC instead of all the control logic, it should certainly be a lot >easier and simpler than the original concept! > >Andy G4JNT > > >-- >The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence >is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). >For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, >or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is >prohibited and may be unlawful. > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 73 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 09:46:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 09:46:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 14896 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 09:46:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 09:46:05 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MQsX-0003Nf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 09:43:09 +0000 Received: from mrwint.cisco.com ([198.135.0.176] helo=cisco.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MQsV-0003NS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 09:43:08 +0000 Received: from virgin.net (ams-clip-vpn-dhcp95.cisco.com [10.50.0.94]) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA21174; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 09:41:43 GMT Message-ID: <3C357837.66351614@virgin.net> Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 09:39:03 +0000 From: "Stewart Bryant" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: "API \(E-mail 2\)" , "JVL \(E-mail\)" <'mh__emwalters@26fernhurst.freeserve.co.uk'>, "WDG \(E-mail\)" , "YGF \(E-mail\)" Subject: Re: LF: Request to any (relative) OTs out there ! References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C685@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andy Presumably you have seen this: http://www.hanssummers.com/radio/huffpuff/contents.htm Stewart G3YSX Talbot Andrew wrote: > A request for anyone out there who was receiving RadCom or any other > magazine, before I joined in 1975...... > > I'm looking for the reference to the Huff-Puff stabilisation scheme, and in > particular the improved Mark 2 modified version that, seem to recall, > employed a counter rather than a simple flip-flop. It almost certainly > appeared in Radio Communication in the 1970s, and from what I remember of > talk in my local radio club in those days, was probably around 1973 - 74. > > Have a feeling I'm in the process of 're-inventing' it for a high stability > GPS locked source for low data rate signalling, and don't want to claim the > credit for an idea that appeared over a quarter of a centuary ago! > > With a PIC instead of all the control logic, it should certainly be a lot > easier and simpler than the original concept! > > Andy G4JNT > > -- > The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence > is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). > For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, > or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is > prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27685 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 09:41:50 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 09:41:50 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10462 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 09:41:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 09:41:46 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MQp4-0003Mk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 09:39:34 +0000 Received: from mozart.earthlight.co.nz ([202.36.170.3] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MQp1-0003Mf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 09:39:32 +0000 Received: from andrewss.earthlight.co.nz (ppp43.earthlight.co.nz [202.36.170.43]) by mozart.earthlight.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id WAA07935 for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 22:38:38 +1300 X-Authentication-Warning: mozart.earthlight.co.nz: Host ppp43.earthlight.co.nz [202.36.170.43] claimed to be andrewss.earthlight.co.nz Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20020104213818.010cb330@pop.earthlight.co.nz> X-Sender: andrewss@pop.earthlight.co.nz X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 21:38:18 +1200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Stan Andrews" Subject: Re: LF: Virus Alert! HOAX HOAX In-reply-to: <007701c1917d$126c1fe0$8f9a17d2@steve> References: <000d01c1909a$49ba6440$af60883e@g3aqc> <001201c1910b$77a5b1e0$59d97ad5@dave> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Steve, Was very interested in your comments about the fire storms.. We are lucky in the sense that we get a lot of rain rather than drying winds. However we are sorry to hear about people loosing their homes particularly at Christmas time. A time when we lookforward to relaxing a bit and taking it easy.. And useually one looses a lot of items that are irreplaceable and mean a lot to one in the way of particularly special to ones own existence. You may or may not know that Kevin, ZL4MD, was fire chief at Cromwell for quite afew years. Is retired from there now. Nearly lost his eye sight some years ago when a big circuit breaker blew uo\p. Wish you all the best for 2002 and hopefully we may hear you on the Thursday night net. But then you may have a similar problem to myself. a 50 x 200 foot section and surrounded at close range by other houses. Would also appreciate advice of your Virus checker. Am tied up with the Dunedin SeniorNer, a group of world wide affiliations helping those over 55 who want to learn about computers. We are preparing a list of Anti virus progs for putting into the club newletter. You seem to be very happy with your choice and does not seem to be excessively expensive. 73 Syan, ZL4MB At 08:58 31/12/01 +1100, you wrote: >G'day All, > >I have subscribed recently to an anti-virus program. I won't tell you >which one unless I receive direct inquiries as I don't want to put >commercial recommendations up here. It only costs US$20 p.a. (OK, so that >narrows it down a bit :-) for which I receive notifications and updates >nearly everyday. I usually update my virus data files every couple of >days (done automatically with a few clicks in the background as I am reading >my emails). When I received one of those SULFNBK.EXE hoax emails I >already knew about it several days prior. Forewarned is for-armed. > >Happy New Year !!!!! > >73s Steve VK2ZTO > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22843 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 09:25:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 09:25:34 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 27200 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 09:25:34 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 09:25:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MQa0-0003KI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 09:24:00 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MQZz-0003KB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 09:23:59 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id JAA11733; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 09:32:40 GMT Received: (qmail 26752 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 10:12:37 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 10:12:37 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id JAA13077; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 09:43:05 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma013040; Fri, 4 Jan 02 09:42:39 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id ; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 09:28:49 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 09:22:43 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C685@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, "API \(E-mail 2\)" , "JVL \(E-mail\)" <'mh__emwalters@26fernhurst.freeserve.co.uk'>, "WDG \(E-mail\)" , "YGF \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: Request to any (relative) OTs out there ! Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 09:22:38 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: A request for anyone out there who was receiving RadCom or any other magazine, before I joined in 1975...... I'm looking for the reference to the Huff-Puff stabilisation scheme, and in particular the improved Mark 2 modified version that, seem to recall, employed a counter rather than a simple flip-flop. It almost certainly appeared in Radio Communication in the 1970s, and from what I remember of talk in my local radio club in those days, was probably around 1973 - 74. Have a feeling I'm in the process of 're-inventing' it for a high stability GPS locked source for low data rate signalling, and don't want to claim the credit for an idea that appeared over a quarter of a centuary ago! With a PIC instead of all the control logic, it should certainly be a lot easier and simpler than the original concept! Andy G4JNT -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5593 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 08:49:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 08:49:05 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 22418 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 08:49:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 08:49:07 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MQ0D-0003EY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 08:47:01 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MQ0C-0003ET-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 08:47:00 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id IAA28799; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 08:55:36 GMT Received: (qmail 25906 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 09:35:33 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 09:35:33 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id JAA11958; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 09:06:01 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma011948; Fri, 4 Jan 02 09:05:34 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 08:51:44 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 08:45:39 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C684@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Re: m-FSK: SNR vs bandwidth Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 08:45:34 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: -----Original Message----- >From: WarmSpgs@aol.com [mailto:WarmSpgs@aol.com] >Sent: 04 January 2002 04:36 >To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >Subject: Re: LF: Re: m-FSK: SNR vs bandwidth >demanding combination, after all. Bit rates slower than about 1/second never >really caught on here. And where could we get a clear definition of >Differential BPSK, please? In normal BPSK, the data is coded so that a phase of 0 degrees represents a '0' and 180 degrees a '1'. Since we have no idea of the absolute starting phase, it is obvious that an ambiguity can arise as it is impossible to determine which phase state is which, and the sequence is then just as easily decoded with the 1s and 0s transposed. There are several ways to solve this problem. One is to transmit a known sequence at the start of, and/or periodically during, the transmission. If this known sequence is decoded upside down then we know that all subsequent data has to be inverted. Another allied method would be to define symbols at specific times, such as the UTC second, as being in a known state. This latter technique obviously relys on having accurate time information at both ends of the link. Alternatively, the data can be encoded in such a way that polarity is irrelevent. Instead of encoding a '0' or '1' as the absolute phase value, encode the signal such that no change of phase from one symbol period to the next represents a '0' and a change of phase represents a '1'. Now, a long string of '0's would appear as a continuous carrier and a long string of '1's as a carrier whose phase swapped 180 degrees every period. This is Differential Binary Phase Shift Keying (DBPSK). DBPSK is used in most HF and VHF modulations as it is the simplest way to resolve the phase ambiguity problem. PSK31 uses DBPSK, so does Coherent, and in each of these modes the idle sequence, when no data is being sent, consists of a long chain of '1's so the transmitted sequence repeatedly inverts every symbol, giving a demodulator the maximum likelyhood of locking correctly to the signal timing. It does have the following disadvantage however: If a symbol is corrupted by noise or interference, then not only is that data bit decoded incorrectly, but so is the next symbol, as its phase shift will be interpreted incorrectly wrt. the corrupted one. Therefore the Bit Error Rate (BER) for DPSK is double that of absolute BPSK. It is not, as is often taken to be the case, equivalent to a 3dB degradation in S/N. Depending on the point on the S/N ratio versus BER curve at which the demodulator is sitting, a doubling of the BER can correspond to either a minute change of a fraction of a dB in S/N if S/N is poor, or a hugh change of many dB if S/N is large For our LF, very low bandwidth signalling needs however, we do not have to go to differential modes and as our S/N will always be 'poor' by definition, the gain of not having to employ differential coding can be considerable. With symbols of over 1 second in length, it is quite straightforward to, just as an example, define the bit sent on the UTC minute or hour as being a zero. Relying on absolute time also has the advantage of not having to rely on lock up sequences and procedures - always the weak point in coherent signalling systems. There is no problem these days in getting time to a few 10s of milliseconds accuracy, and a low cost GPS module will give better than 1us accuracy. With such easily available, highly accurate timing information other measurements of the LF path become possible, such as flight time from one station to the other which would allow some of the anomalies of the long paths to be investigated. Andy G4JNT -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28410 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 07:21:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 07:21:14 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21098 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 07:21:14 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 07:21:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MOd9-000366-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 07:19:07 +0000 Received: from siaag2ac.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.133]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MOd8-000361-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 07:19:06 +0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2ac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id CAA07755 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 02:17:47 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 02:17:38 -0500 From: "Holger 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Activity tonight from DK8KW To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200201040217_MC3-ECB2-7366@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LF-group, I intend to join in the transatlantic club tonight. Any objections that I use 135923.3 kHz plus 0.1 Hz DFCW or is this frequency in use? Thanks, best 73 and a very happy New Year to all of you! Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23106 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 04:42:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 04:42:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15428 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 04:42:17 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 04:42:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MM6N-0002rb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 04:37:07 +0000 Received: from imo-r10.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.106]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MM6L-0002rW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 04:37:06 +0000 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-r10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.104.ed77668 (4242) for ; Thu, 3 Jan 2002 23:36:00 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <104.ed77668.29668b30@aol.com> Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 23:36:00 EST Subject: Re: LF: Re: m-FSK: SNR vs bandwidth To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 1/3/02 3:09:33 PM Eastern Standard Time, vernall@xtra.co.nz writes: << So in summary, I believe that extending LF DX achievements will be best served by developing a BPSK or DBPSK scheme. >> Interesting that we appear to be coming full-circle to what LowFERs in the States had been playing with for over a decade. Yet, what exactly are we looking at in the way of practical BPSK? Low data rates and BPSK are a very demanding combination, after all. Bit rates slower than about 1/second never really caught on here. And where could we get a clear definition of Differential BPSK, please? 73, John KD4IDY From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23548 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 00:33:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 00:33:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23661 invoked from network); 4 Jan 2002 00:33:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jan 2002 00:33:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MIF4-0002S1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 00:29:50 +0000 Received: from smtp1.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.91] helo=mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MIF3-0002Rw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 04 Jan 2002 00:29:49 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.87.166]) by mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Thu, 3 Jan 2002 20:30:13 -0400 Message-ID: <3C353E51.F877CA01@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 04 Jan 2002 00:32:01 -0500 From: "john currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 136 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all late tonight, Last night saw JTC,AQC,es 6NM. Also what looked like amateur station 0.3Hz below JTC . it might be another Loran Line. Was not that good a night Will start now to look 0028Z 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13414 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2002 20:12:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by exhibition.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Jan 2002 20:12:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 627 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2002 20:12:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Jan 2002 20:12:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ME9H-0001vh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2002 20:07:35 +0000 Received: from mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.138]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16ME9F-0001vW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2002 20:07:33 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.181.187]) by mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20020103200612.YBAC10687.mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 09:06:12 +1300 Message-ID: <000001c19492$b78b99c0$bbb51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <169.68ea4ad.2964d7e6@aol.com> Subject: LF: Re: m-FSK: SNR vs bandwidth Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 08:54:30 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Happy New Year, I believe that Markus, DF6NM has made some salient points: > ...... The question for our weak-signal work is not so much how to > decrease the error rate of a strong signal, but rather whether we can > actually lower the threshold bit-energy below the noise energy (kT, equal to > noise-power per bandwidth). > > For m-ary FSK, the task of the receiver is simply to select the channel > having the highest energy (or the highest in-phase voltage for coherent > detection). The problem is that with more channels, the statistical > probability of noise in one of the many unwanted channels being stronger than > the signal channel becomes higher. To keep the error rate constant, you have > to spend a little more TX power. For large m, this logarithmic loss in > SNR-efficiency per symbol finally eats up the logarithmic increase of the > number of bits per symbol. > > Just have a look at one of the 7FSK screenshots with marginal signal: The > choice of selecting the "right one in a crowd of seven" is more difficult > than for a crowd of two. I have not been closely following the 7FSK discussion due to other calls on my time, but I have been generally sceptical that anything with more than binary coding is the way to go for amateur LF DX two-way contacts. So rather belatedly, I have some remarks on basic issues, stimulated by the comments from Markus: My understanding is that binary phase shift keying (BPSK) has the lowest detection threshold of any type of modulation and that ANY higher order scheme (intended to give an increase in spectral "efficiency" in terms of transmitted bits/second/Hz) accordingly has a penalty of less energy per bit for a given transmitter power, so the claim of "efficiency" has an overhead in needing higher RF signal to noise ratio at the receiver. A "binary" scheme is always a winner in terms of noise performance and of the various binary schemes, "phase shift" keying is the best performer. Differential BPSK (DBPSK) may have practical benefits that justify a small degradation in ultimate noise performance. For a given demodulated bit error ratio (and including using a visual display for operator assisted decoding), a higher RF signal to noise ratio is needed by any higher order modulation scheme. Amateurs have an eirp cap on radiated power, so there is a limit on how much the DX receiving situation can be improved in terms of "solving the problem by applying more transmitter power". For a two-way contact there is also the question of completing the QSO within the time of a propagation opening. Thus a deduction can be made as to the slowest bit rate needed to achieve the desired results. There may as well be pre-set options for bit rate, to facilitate local testing and for QSOs within a few hundred kilometres. The message content needs to be succinct so there needs to be good use made of prior agreed codes. Good coding is also part of the overall scheme. So in summary, I believe that extending LF DX achievements will be best served by developing a BPSK or DBPSK scheme. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5460 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2002 20:00:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Jan 2002 20:00:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 20044 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2002 20:00:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Jan 2002 20:00:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MDww-0001sv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2002 19:54:50 +0000 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16MDwu-0001sq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2002 19:54:49 +0000 Received: from steve (ppp165.dyn154.pacific.net.au [210.23.154.165]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA24204 for ; Fri, 4 Jan 2002 06:53:56 +1100 Message-ID: <013001c19491$30c6fac0$a59a17d2@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <003301c186e8$dabdefe0$9fa1883e@g3aqc><5.1.0.14.0.20011217162715.00abb350@gemini.herts.ac.uk><3.0.1.16.20011218145846.2b378612@pb623250.kuleuven.be><007001c18807$c3f5d0a0$fb9a17d2@steve><3C2083F3.E716ECC@usa.net> <3.0.1.16.20020102101238.2c2f1e36@pb623250.kuleuven.be> Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: long haul QSO's Date: Fri, 4 Jan 2002 06:59:35 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G'day Rik, > > I believe there is a way to work arround this. What I did in the QRS > software was : > 1. 'occupy' the LPT port (printer) via the API > 2. drive the printer port via the PORT commands (Delphi) > 3. don't forget to 'release' the LPT port (via API) at the end > That way I avoided that the operating system was interfering, I made it > believe that the printer is printing all the time. > Could you send some further details on this ? (specifically the 'occupy' and 'release' bits). 73s Steve VK2ZTO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25416 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2002 15:35:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Jan 2002 15:35:30 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4966 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2002 15:35:30 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Jan 2002 15:35:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16M9kq-0001Mt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2002 15:26:04 +0000 Received: from mta40-acc.tin.it ([212.216.176.93] helo=fep40-svc.tin.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16M9kp-0001Mo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2002 15:26:04 +0000 Received: from mailsrv.dii.unisi.it ([212.171.197.125]) by fep40-svc.tin.it (InterMail vM.4.01.03.23 201-229-121-123-20010418) with ESMTP id <20020103152515.UHVL10851.fep40-svc.tin.it@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> for ; Thu, 3 Jan 2002 16:25:15 +0100 Message-ID: <3C34766E.A2B59F3F@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 16:19:10 +0100 From: "valerio" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Frequency calibration References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020103123454.00a8dfa8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz wrote: > At 20:10 02/01/2002 +0100, you wrote: > >I'm trasmitting qrss 90 sec in low power on 135.921. > >Is someone in Europe is receiving, please tell me about accuracy of > >frequency calibration and stability. > > > > > > > >'73 , Valerio > Dear Valerio, > > Between about 2000 and 2300, your QRG cycled up and down between about > 135.921 +0.09Hz and +0.13Hz - I reckon my measurement error will be within > 0.01Hz. The drift seemed to be synchronised with the symbols being > transmitted, so perhaps a thermal effect? > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU Dear Jim, thanks for the info, the frequency referency here is a crystal oscillator with a home made temperature stabilization driving a DDS, so the drift you reported my be an interference in the temperature controll circuit during transmission. I'm very discouraged by results, it seems very difficult to cross the Atlantic from my QTH. I will try again this night with short period of more 3 dB of power. '73 ,Valerio From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5417 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2002 14:06:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Jan 2002 14:06:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 18699 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2002 14:06:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Jan 2002 14:06:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16M8RK-0001Av-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2002 14:01:50 +0000 Received: from ligarius-fe0.ultra.net ([146.115.8.189]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16M8RJ-0001Aq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2002 14:01:49 +0000 Received: from comrex (207-172-216-58.s566.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.216.58]) by ligarius-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n26500/mtc.v2) with SMTP id JAA01639 for ; Thu, 3 Jan 2002 09:00:59 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000b01c1945f$5e6eacc0$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020103123454.00a8dfa8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Subject: LF: 136 Tonight Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 09:02:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I won't be running screen captures tonight -- I'll be out most of the evening, and there will be a storm to my east that should make the band pretty noisy. Am planning to resume the web-posted captures on Friday. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7375 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2002 13:00:57 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Jan 2002 13:00:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 20258 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2002 13:00:57 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Jan 2002 13:00:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16M7Qy-00011e-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2002 12:57:24 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16M7Qt-00011Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2002 12:57:20 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16M7Q6-0007Fj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2002 12:56:30 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16M7Q5-0003Vl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2002 12:56:29 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020103123454.00a8dfa8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 03 Jan 2002 12:56:11 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: Frequency calibration In-reply-to: <02010220105700.01270@base> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 20:10 02/01/2002 +0100, you wrote: >I'm trasmitting qrss 90 sec in low power on 135.921. >Is someone in Europe is receiving, please tell me about accuracy of >frequency calibration and stability. > > > >'73 , Valerio Dear Valerio, Between about 2000 and 2300, your QRG cycled up and down between about 135.921 +0.09Hz and +0.13Hz - I reckon my measurement error will be within 0.01Hz. The drift seemed to be synchronised with the symbols being transmitted, so perhaps a thermal effect? Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17580 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2002 09:10:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Jan 2002 09:10:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 15087 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2002 09:10:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Jan 2002 09:10:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16M3mU-0000c2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2002 09:03:22 +0000 Received: from imailg1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.179]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16M3mT-0000bx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2002 09:03:21 +0000 Received: from modem-85.belthil.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.139.213] helo=g3aqc) by imailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 16M3lh-0001eQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2002 09:02:34 +0000 Message-ID: <001301c19435$8bf43720$d58b883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <13.4590407.2964e9ce@aol.com> <002401c19411$ccf13800$0300a8c0@charter.net> Subject: LF: Re: AAAAAAAQQQQQQQCCCCCCC Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 09:03:07 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Andrews" Subject: LF: AAAAAAAQQQQQQQCCCCCCC Yes I sent two very long dashes to checkdrift and sig strength fluctuation. Thanks John for the near real time feedback 73s Laurie. > I think I'm receiving the longest AQC on record. > > http://webpages.charter.net/w1tag/cap-1.jpg > > John Andrews, W1TAG > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15094 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2002 08:54:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Jan 2002 08:54:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 2021 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2002 08:53:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Jan 2002 08:53:59 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16M3Wz-0000YF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2002 08:47:21 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16M3Wy-0000YA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 03 Jan 2002 08:47:20 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id IAA09058; Thu, 3 Jan 2002 08:55:55 GMT Received: (qmail 2282 invoked from network); 3 Jan 2002 09:35:56 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 3 Jan 2002 09:35:56 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id JAA07728; Thu, 3 Jan 2002 09:06:29 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma007713; Thu, 3 Jan 02 09:06:27 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 3 Jan 2002 08:52:24 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 3 Jan 2002 08:46:20 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C682@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Phase Sensitive Waterfall Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 08:46:17 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit

I think the soundcard stability is too poor to be able to rely on for phase measurements.  Instead, how about a phase meter that works by comparing the phase of a signal on the left channel input with a supplied reference tone on the right channel.  Then, all that anyone need do is construct a stable oscillator and divider to generate, say, a 1kHz, tone.  

I regularly use a phase meter based on the 56002EVM.  The DSP card performs the digitisation, downconversion and decimation, outputting I/Q samples at user selectable data rates from 800 Hz right down to 1.95 Hz (8000 / 4096)  via the COM port to a PC for further analysis.   In my case the EVM sampling clock is stabilised so there is no need for a comparison tone to measure phase.  

A waterfall plot of phase would be a wonderful and easy way to get a few more dB of sensitivity out of slow signalling over power detection methods..  Even if the frequency stability is insufficient to maintain phase over a symbol period, it should still be easy to spot the data transitions by eye.  The only problem then would be resolving the 0/180 degree ambiguity.

 

Andy  G4JNT

 


Alan - in fact I have been playing with a "phase sensitive waterfall display" which Markus DF6NM suggested over half a year ago. Indeed, the result of the FFT calculation carries the amplitude and phase, but it's not easy to interpret the phase values and putting subsequent FFT results together (all I got up to now is a very colorfull display which looks like "moiré effect" on a TV screen. But with a bit of inspiration, there will be more soon... :-)







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 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23321 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 23:50:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 23:50:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 25204 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 23:50:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 23:50:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Lv7j-0007wh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 23:48:43 +0000 Received: from dc-mx04.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.14] helo=dc-mx04.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Lv7i-0007wc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 23:48:42 +0000 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johncellar) by dc-mx04.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 2682695 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 18:54:15 -0500 Message-ID: <002401c19411$ccf13800$0300a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <13.4590407.2964e9ce@aol.com> Subject: LF: AAAAAAAQQQQQQQCCCCCCC Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 23:47:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I think I'm receiving the longest AQC on record. http://webpages.charter.net/w1tag/cap-1.jpg John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25474 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 23:39:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 23:39:55 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 20729 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 23:39:52 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 23:39:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LuxL-0007u0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 23:37:59 +0000 Received: from europa.your-site.com ([140.186.45.14]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LuxJ-0007tv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 23:37:58 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.180.100]) by europa.your-site.com ; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 18:37:01 -0500 Message-ID: <3C339996.5C1AEB74@att.net> Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 23:36:54 +0000 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "RSGB LF" Subject: LF: 135 khz tonight 02/03Jan02 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Lots of QRN again here in NC tonight. But whoever just sent a 5 min signal on .92163 was stronger than the noise. I'll post 30 min updates until about 0500 hrs. at: http://www.gostanly.com/w4dex/135kHz.jpg Dex From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10210 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 22:59:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 22:59:03 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9972 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 22:59:03 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 22:59:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LuIj-0007mu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 22:56:01 +0000 Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.97]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LuIi-0007mp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 22:56:00 +0000 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.13.4590407 (3934) for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 17:55:10 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <13.4590407.2964e9ce@aol.com> Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 17:55:10 EST Subject: Re: LF: Very slow DFCW To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 10510 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi Steve,

>> If you start off with a 650Hz tone sampled at 11025Hz with a record size of 16384 you have a record length of 1.49 seconds (BW = 0.67Hz).     Averaging or skipping samples could be done down to maybe a 2205Hz sample rate, but that would only get a record length of about 7.5Hz (BW = 0.134Hz).     The only way I can see that 5.3mHz can be achieved is if you mix down the input signal to close to zero frequency (say 20Hz) and low-pass filter to eliminate aliasing.    This would make the 16384 record length long enough for mHz range resolutions.    Is this how it is done ?
<<<

Basically, yes.
In fact the audio signal sampled at 11025 Hz is first multiplied with a two-phase "Local Oscillator" signal, with the frequency set for the center of the display (with complex numbers, you may call the output I / Q samples).
Then, the sample rate is reduced ("decimated") in a chain of "decimation stages" (don't know if thats the correct term). Each decimation stage is not only a "sample rate divider" but real a low pass filter (for anti-aliasing, not just an average filter).
Assume each stage divides the sample rate by two:
The first decimation stages has 11025 samples/second "in"
and produces 5512.5 samples/second.
The second 5512.5 samples/second "in" and puts 2756 samples/second out,
etc etc etc.
After a 7 of such stages there are 11025/(2^7) = 11025/128 = 86.13 samples per second (still I/Q samples). This 86.13 Hz sample rate goes into a 16k FFT (for example), giving a frequency resolution of 5.3mHz.
You could go much higher in FFT resolution but it takes an utterly long time to fill the FFT buffer.
Example: To put 16384 samples from the decimated signal (86.13 Hz) in a buffer, it takes 190 seconds.
I think ARGO and SPECTRAN work similar, with the difference that you don't have to think about these "details" there.. but Spectrum Lab was never intended to be user friendly HI.

Hope this answers your question a bit.

Good luck and happy experimenting !
 73 Wolf DL4YHF.


P.S: Phase Meter..

Alan - in fact I have been playing with a "phase sensitive waterfall display" which Markus DF6NM suggested over half a year ago. Indeed, the result of the FFT calculation carries the amplitude and phase, but it's not easy to interpret the phase values and putting subsequent FFT results together (all I got up to now is a very colorfull display which looks like "moiré effect" on a TV screen. But with a bit of inspiration, there will be more soon... :-)





From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4554 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 22:48:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 22:48:58 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1662 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 22:48:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 22:48:56 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Lu0u-0007jl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 22:37:36 +0000 Received: from d12lmsgate-3.de.ibm.com ([195.212.91.201]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Lu0t-0007jg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 22:37:35 +0000 Received: from d12relay02.de.ibm.com (d12relay02.de.ibm.com [9.165.215.23]) by d12lmsgate-3.de.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id XAA13074 for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 23:36:17 +0100 Received: from usa.net (ss5.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.70]) by d12relay02.de.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id g02Maml151230 for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 23:37:01 +0100 Message-ID: <3C3389E2.74420952@usa.net> Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 23:29:54 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Xmas tests References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020102150917.00a4aa88@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz wrote: > [...] > Most of the problem with frequencies seems to be due to the 3 1/2 Hz > bandwidth that Argo has when used in 60s dot mode, which is a bit > restrictive. > [...] Argo, in the sake of maximum resolution, uses rigidly one screen pixel for each FFT bin. That's why with QRSS60 the span shown is only 3.5 Hz. I could resample spatially the waterfall to have more Hz displayed, but I am not sure it is a good idea, resolution-wise... 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11270 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 21:42:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 21:42:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22546 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 21:42:21 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 21:42:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Lt6x-0007aw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 21:39:47 +0000 Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.164]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Lt6w-0007aq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 21:39:46 +0000 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.169.68ea4ad (2519) for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 16:38:47 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <169.68ea4ad.2964d7e6@aol.com> Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 16:38:46 EST Subject: LF: m-FSK: SNR vs bandwidth To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 72 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Rik, dear LF group, > Assuming a QRSS QSO takes 2 hours you can have the same QSO in abt. > 38 minutes using DFCW and in abt 22 minutes using 7FSK, leaving the SNR > unchanged. > 7FSK is ... abt. 2.5dB superior to DFCW Implicitly, you raise a very interesting point here: What if we used 1024 freqs to encode 10 bits, would the SNR per symbol still be the same? If so, could we use infinitely less energy per bit, by spending (exponentially) more bandwidth? Spending BW to improve SNR is often done, classical examples are wideband FM and digital audio. But all these techniques have in common a detection threshold. If the input SNR is below that minimum, demodulation breaks down completely. The question for our weak-signal work is not so much how to decrease the error rate of a strong signal, but rather whether we can actually lower the threshold bit-energy below the noise energy (kT, equal to noise-power per bandwidth). For m-ary FSK, the task of the receiver is simply to select the channel having the highest energy (or the highest in-phase voltage for coherent detection). The problem is that with more channels, the statistical probability of noise in one of the many unwanted channels being stronger than the signal channel becomes higher. To keep the error rate constant, you have to spend a little more TX power. For large m, this logarithmic loss in SNR-efficiency per symbol finally eats up the logarithmic increase of the number of bits per symbol. Just have a look at one of the 7FSK screenshots with marginal signal: The choice of selecting the "right one in a crowd of seven" is more difficult than for a crowd of two. Regards de Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2460 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 21:24:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 21:24:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 12633 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 21:24:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 21:24:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Lsoz-0007Uo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 21:21:13 +0000 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Lsox-0007Uj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 21:21:11 +0000 Received: from steve (ppp203.dyn154.pacific.net.au [210.23.154.203]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA26232 for ; Thu, 3 Jan 2002 08:20:21 +1100 Message-ID: <009e01c193d4$1702e4e0$cb9a17d2@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <194.97dafc.2963ca43@aol.com> Subject: Re: LF: Very slow DFCW Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 08:26:00 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
G'day Wolf,
 
I had a look at the Spectrum Lab manual and see that when you say decimation you don't mean taking smaller records and then averaging (which I understood was decimation).    Unfortunately, I still don't understand how this works.
 
If you start off with a 650Hz tone sampled at 11025Hz with a record size of 16384 you have a record length of 1.49 seconds (BW = 0.67Hz).     Averaging or skipping samples could be done down to maybe a 2205Hz sample rate, but that would only get a record length of about 7.5Hz (BW = 0.134Hz).     The only way I can see that 5.3mHz can be achieved is if you mix down the input signal to close to zero frequency (say 20Hz) and low-pass filter to eliminate aliasing.    This would make the 16384 record length long enough for mHz range resolutions.    Is this how it is done ?

73s Steve Olney (VK2ZTO/AXSO - QF56IK : Lat -33 34 07, Long +150 44 40)
=============================================
HomePage URL:   http://www.zeta.org.au/~ollaneg
Containing:-
ULF, ELF, VLF & LF Experimentation
MF 22m Experimentation
InfraSonic Experimentation
Laser Comms DX
=============================================
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18963 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 21:21:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 21:21:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 10935 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 21:21:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 21:21:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LsmG-0007UA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 21:18:24 +0000 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LsmF-0007U5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 21:18:23 +0000 Received: from host213-122-103-35.btinternet.com ([213.122.103.35] helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16LslU-0007ge-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 21:17:37 +0000 Message-ID: <000101c193d2$e7f08780$23677ad5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Phase meter Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 20:27:13 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Paul I have been wondering about that for some time and was hoping a souncard version of the Loran program that Peter G3PLX was experimenting with might appear. I would dearly like to confirm my thoughts about the path across. If you look at some of my early CFH plots (Sept- Dec 2000) you can see the strength rise to a peak just as the shadow at ground level reaches a point about 1000kms east the Nova Scotia coast. (This is just less that an hour before sunset, and would tie in with the recent of signal acquisition reports) By doing a little crude geometry I reckong that at this time the shadow at 100kms altitude has just reached mid-Atlantic. The signal level decays again then and rises again (to a much higher level) as the shadow at ground level reaches the Nova Scotia coast. At that time I think the shadow at 100kms altitude is at about 3/4 of the path. That is just the point where we need a 'reflection' for two hop propagation. The reasoning is very crude but could be confirmed by watching the phase change as a function of increasing path delay. What I am not sure of is the level of frequency stability that would be needed at the TX end. I suppose slow drift could be 'calibrated out', maybe by monitoring a station locally, inside ground wave distance. I think all the information is there in the samples taken for waterfall displays, but is not used (??) . I think you might have to talk nicely to Wolf...... it would fit well with his logging facility in SpectrumLab, that Brian CT1DRP uses for his plots of DCF39 (and other slots). In fact it is such a comprehensive piece of software it may already be there!! There are many parts of Wolf's program that I have not had time to investigate. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25430 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 21:21:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 21:21:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22463 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 21:21:12 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 21:21:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LslP-0007Tz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 21:17:31 +0000 Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LslO-0007Tr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 21:17:30 +0000 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.4c.457420e (1332) for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 16:16:08 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <4c.457420e.2964d298@aol.com> Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 16:16:08 EST Subject: Re: Re LF: what's in a name To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 1/2/02 9:21:05 AM Eastern Standard Time, Carmelink@aol.com writes: << And, is the unipole/monopole nondirectional or omnidirectional? >> I'd be more concerned whether the loading coil is wound on a form labelled flammable or inflammable. John KD4IDY From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7475 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 20:42:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 20:42:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 21006 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 20:42:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 20:42:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Ls8H-0007LY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 20:37:05 +0000 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Ls8F-0007LS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 20:37:04 +0000 Received: from steve (ppp203.dyn154.pacific.net.au [210.23.154.203]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA23849 for ; Thu, 3 Jan 2002 07:36:12 +1100 Message-ID: <007301c193cd$ebb87e40$cb9a17d2@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <194.97dafc.2963ca43@aol.com> Subject: Re: LF: Very slow DFCW Date: Thu, 3 Jan 2002 07:41:47 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G'day Wolf, I have been trying to understand the information you gave as below:- > >Using these settings to receive: > Sample rate = 11025 Hz > FFT type = complex, center frequency = 650 Hz (preferred "AF IF") > FFT decimation = 128 > FFT input size = 16384 > FFT resolution = 5.3 milliHertz > Waterfall scroll rate = 30 seconds > I am interested to learn how you get the 5.3mHz resolution. From my understanding the resolution of an FFT of 16384 samples at sample rate 11025Hz would be - 11025/16384 = 0.673Hz. By decimating in time 128 records (and averaging) I thought there is no gain in resolution, but you get an increase in S/N of sqrt(128) in each of these 0.673Hz bins. How are the 5.3mHz bins generated ? 73s Steve Olney (VK2ZTO/AXSO - QF56IK : Lat -33 34 07, Long +150 44 40) ============================================= HomePage URL: http://www.zeta.org.au/~ollaneg Containing:- ULF, ELF, VLF & LF Experimentation MF 22m Experimentation InfraSonic Experimentation Laser Comms DX ============================================= From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3775 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 20:40:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 20:40:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 19743 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 20:40:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 20:40:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Ls98-0007Lo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 20:37:58 +0000 Received: from ligarius-fe0.ultra.net ([146.115.8.189]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Ls96-0007Lj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 20:37:57 +0000 Received: from comrex (216-164-247-230.s2452.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com [216.164.247.230]) by ligarius-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n26500/mtc.v2) with SMTP id PAA09985 for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 15:37:07 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00bc01c193cd$8707d220$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <140.7432225.2964c2ec@aol.com> Subject: LF: W1TAG screen captures again... Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 15:38:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I'm running screen captures to the web again tonight, updated every 15 minutes at: http://webpages.charter.net/w1tag/cap-1.jpg As of 2030, there has been some extra garbage on the screen for most of the day. Don't know if it will clear as we get into prime time. Sunset here is at 2126 UTC. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7231 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 20:12:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 20:12:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4445 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 20:12:29 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 20:12:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Lrin-0007HJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 20:10:45 +0000 Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Lrih-0007HE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 20:10:43 +0000 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.140.7432225 (18556) for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 15:09:16 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <140.7432225.2964c2ec@aol.com> Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 15:09:16 EST Subject: Re: LF: Frequency calibration To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 72 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Valerio, saw your sig on 921.09 at 19:35, just slightly drifting up to 921.12 at 19:45. David `FTC seems vy stable, his freq reads 924.01 here. Best of luck !! Markus From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15814 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 19:46:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 19:46:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 19905 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 19:46:08 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 19:46:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LrHj-0007Bi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 19:42:47 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LrHf-0007Bd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 19:42:43 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16LrGv-0001G5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 19:41:57 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16LrGu-0003ku-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 19:41:56 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020102150917.00a4aa88@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 19:41:38 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: Xmas tests MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------090308020401010209010109" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090308020401010209010109 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear LF Group, Have returned to work this morning after the Christmas break, and have now waded through most of the 400 or so e-mails that had accumulated. I'm sure I have accidentally deleted a few, so if you don't get the response you expected, please e-mail me again. Thanks for the reports on the 7FSK "measles" mode - well, you have to admit it livened things up a bit. For the record, I transmitted the following signals: 25/12, 2230-0712, 135.923k, 30s dots, 0.2Hz tone spacing, 1W ERP 27/12, 0000-0640, 135.923k, 30s dots, 0.2Hz tone spacing, 1W ERP 27/12, 2230-0656, 135.923k, 60s dots, 0.1Hz tone spacing, 0.4W ERP 29/12, 0000-0715, 135.924k, 30s dots, 0.2Hz tone spacing, 1W ERP 29/12, 2245-0715, 135.925k, 30s dots, 0.2Hz tone spacing, 1W ERP 30/12, 2110-0730, 135.923k, 30s dots, 0.2Hz tone spacing, 1W ERP The message read CQ_M0BMU_M0BMU repeated 4 times an hour (or twice when sending 60s dots), together with 2 x 6wpm CW ID's per hour Not being in touch by E-mail over the period meant that I just selected frequencies which were not in use before I started; sorry if it was a frequency you were planning to use. It was nice to see lots of activity on the transatlantic front. The attached jpeg from last night shows, from the top, G4FTC (60s QRSS), DJ2LF(60s QRSS), G3YXM(60s QRSS), DF6NM(300s DFCW), IK5ZPV(30s QRSS) and G3AQC(60s DFCW) - I also copied OM2TW and G3KEV at various times. The 7FSK generator here is based on a 13MHz TCXO module I found in the junk box. It has a pin to connect to an external frequency trimming pot. Applying a variable voltage to this pin gives a reasonably linear frequency shift up to about +/- 20ppm. Providing the temperature does not change rapidly, stability of a few parts in 10^8 is obtained. The tuning voltage is supplied by a simple D/A converter consisting of a string of resistors and an analogue switch IC, followed by an adjustable gain amplifier to set the frequency shift. I settled on 0.2Hz spacing for 30s dots, and 0.1Hz for 60s because when viewed on a spectrogram, these spacings gave an easily identified separation between the tones, allowing for some drift in TX and RX. The 3 bit digital input at the moment comes from a suitably programmed EPROM, clocked through it's addresses with a long cascade of digital dividers. To get to 136kHz, the output is divided down to 1MHz and fed into the external reference input of my Racal 9084 synthesiser. Some gates allow the 7FSK output to be overdriven by a CW identification signal obtained via ON7YD's QRS software. I'm hoping someone will write a 7FSK program soon, so I don't have to blow a new EPROM every time I want to send a different message! It seems several people are missing the point of 7FSK - the idea at this stage of development is not to improve the signal to noise ratio of the received signal, but simply to increase the speed of signalling that can be achieved with given signal strengths, as Rik has pointed out. From this point of view, it seems to work quite well, with the 7FSK covering the same distances under the same conditions, yet being a lot quicker. Trying to have even a minimalist QSO with 30 or 60s QRSS takes hours, and is rendered very difficult by fading. The majority of stations that have so far been detected across the Atlantic have had to resort to these long dot lengths in order to be detected at all, so anything that can speed things up has to be taken seriously. For beacon signals, the speed of signalling is not very important, since it is only necessary to transmit enough information to identify the beacon, rather than to have any actual exchange of information. So for beacons, QRSS is quite satisfactory, while for QSOs it isn't. I think those who say that 7FSK is an inefficient use of bandwidth have not really thought it through. Compared to QRSS, or aural CW for that matter, 7FSK uses 7 tone frequencies, whilst CW uses only 1. Therefore it needs 7 times the bandwidth when using the same dot length. For random alpha-numeric characters, I reckon morse code averages about 11 dot lengths per character, whilst 7FSK uses 2 dot lengths for all characters - so for the same dot length, 7FSK is 5.5 times quicker on average. So the relative efficiencies of this mode in spectrum usage, measured in characters/second/Hz or however you want to express it is about 5.5/7, or about 0.8 times that of CW - not very different, really. If you wanted to send the same messages using CW and 7FSK in the same length of time, you would have to use CW dots 5.5 times shorter than the 7FSK dots, so the bandwidth would be 5.5/7 = 0.8 times that of the 7FSK signal. So from the viewpoint of spectrum usage, it is swings and roundabouts - QRSS does use less bandwidth than 7FSK, but only when it is sending information more slowly. I am slightly amazed that 1.4Hz is considered by some as an excessive use of bandwidth. Over 1000 stations could operate on 136k simultaneously in this mode with the same parameters I have been using, even allowing for a generous guard band between them - many times more than could use, say, SSB on 80m. Bear in mind that most people are happily using normal hand CW on 136kHz - if you look at this on a spectrogram, you will see it takes up 50Hz or more, but I have never heard the band anywhere close to being full up - most of last year people complained about there being too few signals around. Most of the problem with frequencies seems to be due to the 3 1/2 Hz bandwidth that Argo has when used in 60s dot mode, which is a bit restrictive. I have been using Spectrum Lab, which allows you to set any bandwidth you like within the limits of the FFT. I usually use 10 - 20Hz - with the window expanded to fill the screen, this gives plenty of resolution. It also allows you to pan the frequency or alter any of the other parameters "on the fly", immediately showing the effect on the previous few minutes' signals, a very useful feature when a number of different modes are in use. I was actually transmitting 30s dots most of the time, so the displays people were getting were in many cases not optimum - with Argo in 60s mode the signal looks very wide, and causes the dots to overlap (I was not transmitting 2 frequencies at a time as someone suggested!), which makes the signal harder to copy and gives them the "measles" appearance. All the same, the improvement in speed over the neighboring QRSS sigs is obvious. At the moment, I'm trying to catch up on a bit of sleep, but if anyone would like to try experiments with this or other modes, please let me know. Happy new Year to all, Cheers, Jim Moritz, 73 de M0BMU --------------090308020401010209010109 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="taslot2.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="taslot2.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRof Hh0aHBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwh MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAAR CAD4ARQDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAgEFAQAAAAAAAAAAAAAABgcFAAIDBAgB/8QAUxAAAQIE BAMEBgMMBgcHBQAAAQIDAAQFEQYHEiETMUEiUWGBFDJxkaHBI7HRCBUWFyQzQlJigpLhQ3Ki stLwJTQ1RFOTwiYnVGNzo9M2ZIOz8f/EABoBAAMBAQEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAMEBQIBAAb/xAA9 EQACAQMCAwQIAgoBBQEAAAABAgMABBESITFBUQUTYXEUIjKBkaGxwSPRFSQzNEJSYnLC8JIG gqLh8bL/2gAMAwEAAhEDEQA/AEXKA+lNW3UFpIHebw3Ma5Zz8xUmpmRlpp9Cmk34EkpQPaI5 jwsY1Th+ituMvMTDK3Gdw2JQp4h2sCSbQ2nc06Dh9DUjWHvRppLSboCFr6d6UkRh7lVlRYyd skjHGqlxbyWICyDUredKnD2D5rDVNrE5PyD/AGEpQ2JiVLerVYXBPcT0hVTF3J52+5U4SfaT 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from network); 2 Jan 2002 19:21:20 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 19:21:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LqsB-000779-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 19:16:23 +0000 Received: from mta13-acc.tin.it ([212.216.176.44] helo=fep13-svc.tin.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LqsA-000774-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 19:16:22 +0000 Received: from base ([213.45.252.170]) by fep13-svc.tin.it (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with SMTP id <20020102191534.OQAF19827.fep13-svc.tin.it@base> for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 20:15:34 +0100 From: "VALERIO" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Frequency calibration Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 20:10:57 +0100 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.1.99] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <02010220105700.01270@base> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I'm trasmitting qrss 90 sec in low power on 135.921. Is someone in Europe is receiving, please tell me about accuracy of frequency calibration and stability. '73 , Valerio From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4183 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 16:54:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 16:54:14 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22405 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 16:54:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 16:54:14 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LobZ-0006jK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 16:51:05 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LobY-0006jE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 16:51:04 +0000 Received: from ldsas17-81-132-10.cw-visp.com ([212.137.132.10] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16LoQJ-0007kZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 16:39:28 +0000 Message-ID: <3C333A13.E79A3A06@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 16:49:23 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: speed/qso References: <3.0.1.16.20020102143211.2bdf3448@pb623250.kuleuven.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik Strobbe wrote: > At 16:57 29/12/01 +0000, G3KEV wrote: > >In spite of the slow qrs speed the duration of each qso was reasonably > >quick. > >QSO using 60 sec dots - took 60 mins approx to complete including > >callsign and RO acks. > > 3 sec dots - 3 mins > > 2 sec dots- 2 mins > > 1 sec dots- Althought John copied some > >of the callsign the limitations of ARGO at this speed, hand sent speed, > >did not permit a proper xband QSO. The dots and dashes were connected up > >and virtually unreadable, Johns comment. . > > Hello Mal, > > very glad to see that your successes in QRSS, congrats for the crosband QSOs. > I am just a bit puzzled by the QSO times given by you as just transmitting > your call (G3KEV) at 1 min/dot would take 58 minutes (50 minutes if you use > a 2/1 dash to dot ratio). Used 2/1 ratio, callsign sent once and copied perfectly for each qso at dot length as specified above. No repeats etc were required. This was the case for all 3 xband qso's. Qsl was immediate on 7025 khz from the 3 stations concerned, VE1ZJ , W1TAG, and W4DEX. I hope you are not puzzled any more. I realize some transatlantic qso's have taken hours and days to complete but not in my case!! I have several more reports and screen shots from VE1ZZ, W1JHJ,W3EEE and W3NF. Best distance is 6277.5 kms de Mal/G3KEV . > > Maybe since January 1st there is a 3/1 conversion rate between the UK > minute and the Euro minute ;-) > > But the main thing is that you made the QSO, regardless wether it took 1, 2 > ot 3 hours. Once again my congrats to you nad John. > > 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4123 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 16:54:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 16:54:12 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22376 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 16:54:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 16:54:12 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Loba-0006jQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 16:51:06 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LobZ-0006jJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 16:51:05 +0000 Received: from ldsas17-81-132-10.cw-visp.com ([212.137.132.10] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16LoQF-0007kU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 16:39:24 +0000 Message-ID: <3C333629.A7900B18@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 16:32:41 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: speed/qso References: <3.0.1.16.20020102143211.2bdf3448@pb623250.kuleuven.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik Strobbe wrote: > At 16:57 29/12/01 +0000, G3KEV wrote: > >In spite of the slow qrs speed the duration of each qso was reasonably > >quick. > >QSO using 60 sec dots - took 60 mins approx to complete including > >callsign and RO acks. > > 3 sec dots - 3 mins > > 2 sec dots- 2 mins > > 1 sec dots- Althought John copied some > >of the callsign the limitations of ARGO at this speed, hand sent speed, > >did not permit a proper xband QSO. The dots and dashes were connected up > >and virtually unreadable, Johns comment. . > > Hello Mal, > > very glad to see that your successes in QRSS, congrats for the crosband QSOs. > I am just a bit puzzled by the QSO times given by you as just transmitting > your call (G3KEV) at 1 min/dot would take 58 minutes (50 minutes if you use > a 2/1 dash to dot ratio). > Maybe since January 1st there is a 3/1 conversion rate between the UK > minute and the Euro minute ;-) > > But the main thing is that you made the QSO, regardless wether it took 1, 2 > ot 3 hours. Once again my congrats to you nad John. > > 73, Rik ON7YD Thanks Rik for the info. It took the minimun time, only one callsign was necessary at each dot length using 2:1 ratio because the boys across the Atlantic had perfect coyp on my signal every night so far. The above times quoted are CORRECT. I did not have to repeat anything twice etc therefore the qso times were Minimum as stated. I hope you now have the facts correct de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11670 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 16:31:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 16:31:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 14296 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 16:31:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 16:31:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LoGb-0006fQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 16:29:25 +0000 Received: from mta2.snet.net ([204.60.203.71]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LoGa-0006fH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 16:29:24 +0000 Received: from cianciolo (97.79.252.64.snet.net [64.252.79.97] (may be forged)) by mta2.snet.net (8.12.1/8.12.1/SNET-smtp-1.1/D-1.1/O-1.1) with SMTP id g02GSY6o021681 for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 11:28:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003501c193aa$7653a080$6901a8c0@cianciolo> From: "PC" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Phase meter? Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 11:28:07 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hello Folks,
 
Does anyone know of a piece of software that will allow one to monitor phase of an incomming carrier as compareed to a
stable reference liked a divided GPS signal?
 
It would be interesting to see phase changes in signals as the propagate on the LF bands
 
Thank you
 
PaulC
W1VLF
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26580 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 16:18:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 16:18:40 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5439 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 16:18:41 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 16:18:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Lo3h-0006dH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 16:16:05 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Lo3g-0006dC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 16:16:04 +0000 Received: from ldsas07-71-122-147.cw-visp.com ([212.137.122.147] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16LnsR-0006GG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 16:04:27 +0000 Message-ID: <3C3331E1.50A74A70@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 16:14:25 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: QRT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I will be QRT for a few days while I alter the antenna and automate some keying ccts between computer and rig. Hope to be back soon for some more transatlantic xband qso's 73 de Mal/G3KEV . From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18923 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 15:43:04 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 15:43:04 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8642 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 15:43:05 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 15:43:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LnVU-0006XJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 15:40:44 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LnVT-0006XD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 15:40:43 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g02FdPSK017816 for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 16:39:25 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20020102163621.3cf79e04@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 16:36:21 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: Re LF: what's in a name In-reply-to: <17d.197ec5b.2964705e@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 09:17 2/01/02 EST, you wrote: >And, is the unipole/monopole nondirectional or omnidirectional? > >Mike W2AG > Hello Mike, Maybe omnidirectional means that the antenna radiates equally in all directions of the horizontal circle while nondirectional would mean that it radiates equally in really all directions (up-down / left-right). I believe the only nondirectional antenna is a (fictive) isotropic radiator. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25886 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 14:21:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 14:21:08 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8047 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 14:21:05 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 14:21:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LmDX-0006MP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 14:18:07 +0000 Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.8]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LmDW-0006MK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 14:18:06 +0000 Received: from Carmelink@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.17d.197ec5b (15863) for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 09:17:02 -0500 (EST) Received: from web31.aolmail.aol.com (web31.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.222.7]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (v82.22) with ESMTP id MAILINID62-0102091702; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 09:17:02 -0500 Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 09:17:02 EST From: Carmelink@aol.com Subject: Re LF: what's in a name To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <17d.197ec5b.2964705e@aol.com> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: And, is the unipole/monopole nondirectional or omnidirectional? Mike W2AG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4601 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 14:03:41 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 14:03:41 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22660 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 14:03:42 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 14:03:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LlwH-0006Ib-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 14:00:17 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LlwG-0006I4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 14:00:17 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g02Dx0SK034874 for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 14:59:00 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20020102145556.3cf75274@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 14:55:56 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: what's in a name In-reply-to: <200112250903.fBP93R804006@smtp.wanadoo.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Few days ago I was asked what the difference was between a unipole and a monopole. As far as I know these are 2 names for the same thing, but maybe I am wrong ? 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10045 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 13:39:20 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 13:39:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16217 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 13:39:20 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 13:39:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LlZJ-0006EZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 13:36:33 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LlZI-0006EQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 13:36:32 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g02DZFSK043634 for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 14:35:15 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20020102143211.2bdf3448@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 14:32:11 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: speed/qso In-reply-to: <3C2DF5EF.28BE5700@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 16:57 29/12/01 +0000, G3KEV wrote: >In spite of the slow qrs speed the duration of each qso was reasonably >quick. >QSO using 60 sec dots - took 60 mins approx to complete including >callsign and RO acks. > 3 sec dots - 3 mins > 2 sec dots- 2 mins > 1 sec dots- Althought John copied some >of the callsign the limitations of ARGO at this speed, hand sent speed, >did not permit a proper xband QSO. The dots and dashes were connected up >and virtually unreadable, Johns comment. . Hello Mal, very glad to see that your successes in QRSS, congrats for the crosband QSOs. I am just a bit puzzled by the QSO times given by you as just transmitting your call (G3KEV) at 1 min/dot would take 58 minutes (50 minutes if you use a 2/1 dash to dot ratio). Maybe since January 1st there is a 3/1 conversion rate between the UK minute and the Euro minute ;-) But the main thing is that you made the QSO, regardless wether it took 1, 2 ot 3 hours. Once again my congrats to you nad John. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14968 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 12:52:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 12:52:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 11519 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 12:52:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 12:52:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Lkkz-00067F-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 12:44:33 +0000 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Lkky-00067A-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 12:44:32 +0000 Received: from host217-35-44-222.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.44.222] helo=dellboy) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16LkkD-0005tC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 12:43:45 +0000 Message-ID: <000401c1938b$1d4ce380$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C32E53E.EE422B13@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> <000d01c19382$51bc21c0$eeba883e@g3aqc> <3C3343C8.9DA8664F@ns.sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: LF: Re: T/A window Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 12:43:40 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Valerio, John, Laurie etc. I have just checked my calibration against Rugby and I reckon I can be pretty accurately on 9225 Very impressed that the signal stayed in 'till 0900, I pulled the plug about 0910. Sunrise is about 0730 here. 73 Dave G3YXM > Last night saw FTC G3 from Mal YXM es AQC in early period. > This morning around 0700 on saw a very slow DF6NM, (PART). plus FTC and > YXM. YXM faded out around 0900 > 73 de John VE1ZJ > Laurie Mayhead wrote: > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > Valerio said:- > > > There is anyone that have the complete list of stations transmitting > > > tonight in the T/A window ? I have to choose a new frequency where > > > transmit now that Richard is back. > > > > > >'73 Valerio > > I am using 135,921.4/5 DFCW > > Perhaps if others could give their frequency here Valerio could chose a > > slot.There were Canadian Loran lines on:- > > 135,919.055 > > 135,927.487 > > 135,935.919 > > Taken from list produced by John Sexton Sept. 2000 > > Best to avoid these frequencies. > > 73s Laurie. > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29827 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 12:31:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 12:31:31 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27167 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 12:31:28 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 12:31:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LkW1-00064Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 12:29:05 +0000 Received: from smtp1.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.91] helo=mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LkW0-00064L-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 12:29:05 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.110.109]) by mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 08:29:03 -0400 Message-ID: <3C3343C8.9DA8664F@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 12:30:49 -0500 From: "john currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: T/A window References: <3C32E53E.EE422B13@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> <000d01c19382$51bc21c0$eeba883e@g3aqc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Valerio , Hi From this side I would recommend 135.9210. No one used it last night es it's in clear here . Good to check on your side also Last night saw FTC G3 from Mal YXM es AQC in early period. This morning around 0700 on saw a very slow DF6NM, (PART). plus FTC and YXM. YXM faded out around 0900 73 de John VE1ZJ Laurie Mayhead wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > Valerio said:- > > There is anyone that have the complete list of stations transmitting > > tonight in the T/A window ? I have to choose a new frequency where > > transmit now that Richard is back. > > > >'73 Valerio > I am using 135,921.4/5 DFCW > Perhaps if others could give their frequency here Valerio could chose a > slot.There were Canadian Loran lines on:- > 135,919.055 > 135,927.487 > 135,935.919 > Taken from list produced by John Sexton Sept. 2000 > Best to avoid these frequencies. > 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19203 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 11:58:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 11:58:51 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 4138 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 11:58:52 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 11:58:52 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Lk15-0005zG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 11:57:07 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Lk13-0005z9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 11:57:05 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id MAA12369; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 12:05:44 GMT Received: (qmail 20459 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 12:45:48 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 12:45:48 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id MAA15266; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 12:16:26 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma015254; Wed, 2 Jan 02 12:16:21 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 12:02:13 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 11:56:11 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C67F@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 7 FSK Spacing, PSK, and simple accurate , frequency sources Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 11:56:09 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: There has been quite a lot of comment recently about 7FSK and the bandwidth it takes up. The only transmissions (other than my initial tests) were by Jim who seemed to be using quite a wide spacing relative to the dot length. This is a classic spread spectrum transmission where bandwidth is quite a lot wider than necessary either to assist in demodulation or to mitigate certain propagation effects. If we are to use this mode with visual 'decoding' using Argo then we really need to do some tests with weak signals and different spacings to see what is optimum. A good point to start would be at a tone spacing equal to twice to three times the reciprocal of the symbol interval. Thus for 30 second symbols, one letter per minute, for Argo's 30s dot mode, try a tone spacing of 0.07 to 0.1Hz, giving a signal bandwidth of 0.4 or 0.6Hz. It may be possible to go narrower, but reading will be more difficult as the signal will now be in adjacent frequency bins. ..................................... On a different matter, I have been taking part in some 137kHz test transmissions using very low power to G3PLX who is using coherent reception and GPS locked signalling. We are still in the early days yet, and Peter has been sidetracked into some domestic work for now, but initial results look promising. I have been radiating about 1 Watt of RF which, with my antenna, equates to about 200uW ERP and Peter got perfect copy at 400km distance. The signal format was 30 second BPSK, but the results would have stood much faster than this. His next stage is to integrate over longer periods and for me to transmit with even lower power. The key to these experiments is very accurate signal timing and frequencies, we require stabilities and accuracies of just a few parts in 10^-10 in order for the signal to stay within a few degrees of phase over tthe entire transmitting period. In fact a DDS source makes life difficult due to my only having steps of 5MHz / 2^32 !! Symbol timings are also locked to GPS. Peter uses a very novel and very simple way of locking a receiver to GPS - I shan't explain how here, but will leave him to cover it in a subsequent write up; it is not finalised yet, but is very straightforward and needs little more hardware than a GPS receiver module with a 1 PPS output. I have extremally high frequency stability anyway, but we need to look at a simpler route to getting a low cost locked standard from GPS before this technique can be used with a wider audience. For LF signalling, phase noise or slight jitter on the transmission during a symbol interval is not a problem, meaning that a GPS locked frequency standard using the 1 PPS output to adjust a crystal oscillator would be adequatem - so generating ANY frequency that is a multiple of 1 Hz becomes possible. My main interest in high stability sources is rather different as I am, these days, more into high frequencies where the 1 Hz jitter is an absolute taboo when multiplied up to GHz - it would appear as audible chirp up there. However, having been nudged in this direction by Peter I did spend time during a long walk yesterday thinking of sources for LF : Start with a very simple VCXO using any cheap crystal,assume its frequency could be up to +/- 30ppm out. The only requirement on actual frequency is that it ends up at a multiple of 1Hz. Continuously clock this into a binary counter and exactly every second (derived from the GPS receiver) measure the counter value. If the counter is long enough it will be able to resolve all frequency ambiguities (30 ppm at 5 MHz would normally give 150 potential lock points if a simple latch were used). Use the error between this count and what is should be, to generate a correction signal to control the VCXO. An 8 bit counter would be good enough and a PIC interrupted by the GPS pulse reading this counter, plus a handfull of Rs and Cs should do it. We end up with a strange mixture of PLL and frequency locked loop, but one that is simple and optimised to long duration signalling on LF. This is probably a re-invention of the wheel but I haven't seen exactly these requirements before; a very high medium to long term stability but short term / phase noise not too important. I think this is basically what Brooks Shera does in his GPS frequency standard mentioned on this reflector recently, but his design requires a good oscillator source to give a very high performance standard across the spectrum. We do not need this kind of short term performance where signalling is going to use symbol lengths of many seconds. This techniqe may also be allied to the old Huff and Puff stabilisation technique, but extended by the N stage counter rather than a sigle flip-flop to remove frequency lock point ambiguity. The original Huff and Puff system was a little bit before my time in the early 1970's :-) Andy G4JNT -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9773 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 11:42:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 11:42:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 24250 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 11:42:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 11:42:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Ljkv-0005wY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 11:40:25 +0000 Received: from cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.174]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Ljku-0005wT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 11:40:25 +0000 Received: from modem-238.elostirion.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.186.238] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 16Ljk8-0001LN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 11:39:36 +0000 Message-ID: <000d01c19382$51bc21c0$eeba883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C32E53E.EE422B13@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> Subject: LF: Re: T/A window Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 11:40:09 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- Valerio said:- > There is anyone that have the complete list of stations transmitting > tonight in the T/A window ? I have to choose a new frequency where > transmit now that Richard is back. > >'73 Valerio I am using 135,921.4/5 DFCW Perhaps if others could give their frequency here Valerio could chose a slot.There were Canadian Loran lines on:- 135,919.055 135,927.487 135,935.919 Taken from list produced by John Sexton Sept. 2000 Best to avoid these frequencies. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26952 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 10:57:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 10:57:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 13259 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 10:57:12 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 10:57:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Lj1Q-0005om-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 10:53:24 +0000 Received: from mta13-acc.tin.it ([212.216.176.44] helo=fep13-svc.tin.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Lj1P-0005oH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 10:53:24 +0000 Received: from mailsrv.dii.unisi.it ([212.171.197.116]) by fep13-svc.tin.it (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with ESMTP id <20020102105203.LZWB19827.fep13-svc.tin.it@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 11:52:03 +0100 Message-ID: <3C32E53E.EE422B13@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 11:47:26 +0100 From: "valerio" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: T/A window Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: There is anyone that have the complete list of stations transmitting tonight in the T/A window ? I have to choose a new frequency where transmit now that Richard is back. '73 Valerio From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20737 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 10:38:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 10:38:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 29075 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 10:38:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 10:38:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Lik5-0005j4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 10:35:29 +0000 Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Lik4-0005iz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 10:35:28 +0000 Received: from modem-111.aratan.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.120.239] helo=g3aqc) by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 16LijH-0004UT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 10:34:40 +0000 Message-ID: <002201c19379$3e9bac40$ef78883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: LF 136 Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 10:35:10 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John VE1ZJ said:- G3AQC is experimenting with close spaced 3fsk. Well not exactly,I was trying out very close 0.05Hz spacing together with 0.1Hz to see wether it was more or less readable over the other side. Bit inconclusive as very little propagation last night. 73s All Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1359 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 10:32:19 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 10:32:19 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23293 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 10:32:19 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 10:32:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LiaJ-0005he-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 10:25:23 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LiaI-0005hZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 10:25:22 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g02AO3SK031984 for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 11:24:04 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20020102112100.2e074bee@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 11:21:00 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: 136 In-reply-to: <3C2B6EFB.BCBFB23@ns.sympatico.ca> References: <3C2A5DDD.F33E5C02@ns.sympatico.ca> <3C2AF4D6.B7C93C4F@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Mal and John, Assuming a QRSS QSO takes 2 hours you can have the same QSO in abt. 38 minutes using DFCW and in abt 22 minutes using 7FSK, leaving the SNR unchanged. Or the other way arround : if you want to make a 'standard QSO' within 2 hours you have to limit the dotlength to abt. 14 seconds, while you could use abt. 43 seconds dotlength in DFCW and abt. 77 seconds dotlength in 7FSK. This means that DFCW is abt. 5dB superior to QRSS while 7FSK is abt. 7.5dB superior to QRSS and abt. 2.5dB superior to DFCW. So John is right when he states that you win more by changing from QRSS to DFCW than changing from DFCW to 7FSK (5dB vs. 2.5dB), but I would't ignore this last 2.5dB. To give an idea : 2.5dB is increasing the height of your antenna by 33% or increasing the TX power by 78%. Regarding bandwidth : at slow speeds (1 min. dotlength) even 7FSK fits well within 1Hz. 73, Rik ON7YD At 13:57 27/12/01 -0500, you wrote: >Hi Mal saw you last night also M0BMU > About QRSS, DFCW es 7 freq . I find qrss to be very effective. I >believe DFCW is even more effective than QRSS because you can send info much >faster for the same signal to noise ratio. This makes sense because although >it takes same time to send a dot but the dashes are 3 times faster. It does >take up more spectrum space than QRSS but the greater efficiency will either >get the info across faster during condx of QSB or the transmitter can go >double the dot length and get the info across in the same time as QRSS for 3 >db improvement in received SNR. > The &FSK however takes up 3 times more spectrum space es I dont see any >benefit in speed/SNR improvement > Jim your signals were received again through most of the night > >73 De John VE1ZJ >gii3kev wrote: > >> john currie wrote: >> >> > Hi all Saw nil from OM2TW, but will look more carefully later. M0BMU >> > was in all night with the 7 freq format. Seems to take a lot of space >> > . Why will it be better? >> >> That is what I would also like to know. 7 fsk with tone spacing takes up >> about 14 times more spectrum and is not compatable with others modes on >> close adjacent frequencies, do not see any advantage with dfcw either >> except that it and 7fsk are more noticeable on screen but that does not >> constitute a better signal over noise transmission type or any advantage >> over QRS which takes the minimum bandwith of all the modes to achieve the >> object on a very narrow band. >> A few nights ago someone was testing a data transmission around 135.920 >> khz taking up 500 hz of bandwidth, what is coming next !!!!!!!!! >> While experiments with different modes are to be encouraged 136 khz is not >> a suitable band with only 2 khz available, the only suitable mode for this >> band is CW, normal speed and QRS. >> Try the HF and VHF bands or Satellites where there is and abundance of >> spectrum available for mode experimentation. >> >> > G3KEV >> > >> > Valerio, OM2TW will be gone on vacation for few days . Perhaps you >> > can transmit on 135.922 until he is back. Best time seems to be from >> > 0300 to your sunrise >> > Let me know if you will be transmitting es I will look for you. >> > 73 all es hny de john VE1ZJ > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24624 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 09:45:00 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 09:45:00 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 13051 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 09:44:57 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 09:44:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Lhr7-0005Yd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 09:38:41 +0000 Received: from ns3.swh.sk ([192.108.125.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Lhr1-0005YY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 09:38:39 +0000 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes.swh.sk [192.108.125.60]) by ns3.swh.sk (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id g029bYk03008 for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 10:37:34 +0100 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA14688 for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 10:37:26 +0100 (MET) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 10:37:23 +0100 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E0333C118@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: "'Rsgb_Lf_Group \(E-mail\)'" Subject: LF: Back again... Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 10:37:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi John and all LF-ers... I'm back home now and will transmitt again on 135.922 QRSS120 starting 2100Z. 73 de Rich OM2TW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18933 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 09:28:54 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 09:28:54 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9533 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 09:28:54 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 09:28:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LhW9-0005SI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 09:17:01 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LhW8-0005S8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 09:17:00 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id g029FfG8015800 for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 10:15:42 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20020102101238.2c2f1e36@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 10:12:38 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: long haul QSO's In-reply-to: <01c301c1898b$23bc7fa0$f39a17d2@steve> References: <003301c186e8$dabdefe0$9fa1883e@g3aqc> <5.1.0.14.0.20011217162715.00abb350@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <3.0.1.16.20011218145846.2b378612@pb623250.kuleuven.be> <007001c18807$c3f5d0a0$fb9a17d2@steve> <3C2083F3.E716ECC@usa.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 06:18 21/12/01 +1100, you wrote: >Don't we still have the problem with Win95/98 very helpfully changing the>port output not-so-periodically if you have a printer driver assigned to the >port. I think, from memory, you need a VXD so that your program >"captures" the port. There was some program/component called something >like "TVich32" kicking around a while ago for this. Another trick that >seems to work is to remove any printer associations via "My Computer". >Win95/98 seems to leave the port alone then. Not likely to be practical >and even less likely to be popular. I believe there is a way to work arround this. What I did in the QRS software was : 1. 'occupy' the LPT port (printer) via the API 2. drive the printer port via the PORT commands (Delphi) 3. don't forget to 'release' the LPT port (via API) at the end That way I avoided that the operating system was interfering, I made it believe that the printer is printing all the time. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21533 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 08:48:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 08:48:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 13988 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 08:48:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 08:48:20 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Lgun-0005KD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 08:38:25 +0000 Received: from jazzfm.netcomuk.co.uk ([194.42.248.66]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16Lgum-0005K8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 08:38:24 +0000 Received: from jazzfm.com [192.168.102.5] by jazzfm.netcomuk.co.uk [127.0.0.1] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.5.0.R) for ; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 08:14:13 +0000 Received: from JazzFM-Message_Server by jazzfm.com with Novell_GroupWise; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 08:10:01 +0000 Message-ID: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 08:09:50 +0000 From: "Trevor Gosling" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: Re: Fw: Virus Alert! HOAX HOAX MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: TREVOR@jazzfm.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings...... Yep..... it's been going round and round for ages ...... don't think Eddie had heard of it though i'm sure I did a note to everyone about a year ago....... Regards......... Trevor K.P. Gosling. Engineering Department. London Jazz Radio PLC. 020 7298 7208 >>> "Dave Pick" 30/12/01 12:03:00 >>> Doh! That link doesn't find the original page.. go to: http://securityresponse.symantec.com/ And click on "Hoaxes" in the reference area near the bottom of the page, You will find SULFNBK.EXE warning in the alphabetical list. BTW. The antenna is now back up, first toothbrush failure I've had! This long duration QRSS certainly smokes out (literally) any arcing on the antenna. I was using 45 sec dot QRSS as a compromise between 30 and 60 and 2:1 dash/dot ratio, all of which conspired to make my signal unreadable... 73 Dave G3YXM. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dave Pick" To: Sent: Sunday, December 30, 2001 11:05 AM Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: Fw: Virus Alert! HOAX HOAX > It is a hoax, although how the hoax messages are generated I'm not sure.... > Check the Symantec site at: > > http://securityresponse.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/sulfnbk.exe.warning. > html > > It tells you how to put the file back! > > 73. > Dave > G3YXM. > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7700 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 02:32:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 02:32:26 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23168 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 02:32:22 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 02:32:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LbA2-0004RC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 02:29:46 +0000 Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LbA0-0004R7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 02:29:44 +0000 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.194.97dafc (3845) for ; Tue, 1 Jan 2002 21:28:19 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <194.97dafc.2963ca43@aol.com> Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 21:28:19 EST Subject: Re: LF: Very slow DFCW To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------020007040600090903080704" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 10510 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020007040600090903080704 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Markus and group,

The limit is not yet exceeded, DFCW with 25mHz "shift" is clearly visible.
Using these settings to receive:
 Sample rate = 11025 Hz
 FFT type = complex, center frequency = 650 Hz (preferred "AF IF")
 FFT decimation = 128
 FFT input size   = 16384
 FFT resolution   = 5.3 milliHertz
 Waterfall scroll rate = 30 seconds
 Visible freq range set to 651.8 ... 652.2 Hz (can be scrolled over 40Hz whith the above settings).
I will use a larger FILE buffer soon, to scoll the waterfall back & forth over a couple of hours. This will make periodic screen capturing unnecessary.
The only limit the stability of my TS850 which doesn't have an OCXO. The 850 was turned on shortly before the spectrogram started.
On the spectrum plot, DF6NM's peak is **only** 40dB over the visual noise  (for an RX bandwidth of 0.005 Hz) due to local QRM. The signal was just audible with a short piece of untuned wire !

Regards,
 Wolf   DL4YHF.
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xua5SL7A0nnMOb3SqzTb13mcj//xTCFDmQ1R1aDKpHi1QaWhVx0kt/+8+q1089WxSUkhXAp8 UyQ/KSxL7FhMXClR+TFI41DiMypK/R8ScTGH3TVZjFaJnVeleFV8Ej18NZR4kbXrMNEZ2i33 9KOfbb+RaceS0sbSabBTw5HLSA2v4kR3ldeKyckHjFifNFKoAi3gnKEoeqn62guBSlL3wSZQ 47JYeiYGczGT0lRB+yMepAyEtIoErFs3A7HEbNWjmVO6GSen3CcywVMepBWbkUYZCdtcFa0f jMS1TbalQpUXu46M6I9a0VuwylvLHRDG7AjO7VzORRTPDV3RHV3SLV3TPV3UTV3VXV3WbV3X fV3YjV3UzbvmkF3bvV3czV3d3V3e7d3cJcpgLQle4R1e4i1e4z1e5E1e5V1e5g3ecZuAzI1e 6Z1e6s0b8fNd7M1e7d1e7u1e7Q1D7w1f8R1f8i3f3v2Y5k1f9V1f9m1f931f+HUSu51f+q1f +71f/M1f/d1f/u3f/g0IADs= --------------020007040600090903080704-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14158 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 01:25:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 01:25:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 21589 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 01:25:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 01:25:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16La8c-0004I2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 01:24:14 +0000 Received: from dc-mx08.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.18] helo=dc-mx08.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16La8b-0004Hx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 01:24:13 +0000 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johncellar) by dc-mx08.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 65835603 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 20:31:16 -0500 Message-ID: <003b01c19355$fa8f8ee0$0300a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001a01c19318$46def6c0$1700a8c0@home> <3C325C50.7B122739@att.net> Subject: Re: LF: conditions tonight Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 01:23:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dex, > There is no chance of a signal making it over the noise here in North > Carolina tonight. The very strong loran lines aren't even visible. My > guess is the noise here originates in the building weather system in the > Gulf of Mexico. Check this site for lightning data. Looks like a good > site but it says it will be restricted to government use after 2 Jan. I wonder if the gummint is taking over all of the lightning strike data? Will have to research this! Anyway, I think you're right. I'd have the loop aimed right at that storm when trying to receive Europe. It's no fun being bidirectional. Heading upstairs for a while. John From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8167 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 01:05:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 01:05:32 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28384 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 01:05:31 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 01:05:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LZpF-0004Dz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 01:04:13 +0000 Received: from europa.your-site.com ([140.186.45.14]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LZpE-0004Du-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 01:04:12 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.180.100]) by europa.your-site.com ; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 20:03:19 -0500 Message-ID: <3C325C50.7B122739@att.net> Date: Wed, 02 Jan 2002 01:03:12 +0000 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: conditions tonight References: <001a01c19318$46def6c0$1700a8c0@home> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: There is no chance of a signal making it over the noise here in North Carolina tonight. The very strong loran lines aren't even visible. My guess is the noise here originates in the building weather system in the Gulf of Mexico. Check this site for lightning data. Looks like a good site but it says it will be restricted to government use after 2 Jan. http://129.13.102.67/wz/pics/weltlight.html Dex From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24498 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 00:25:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 00:25:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 15216 invoked from network); 2 Jan 2002 00:25:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jan 2002 00:25:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LZ8Z-00046j-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 00:20:07 +0000 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LZ8Y-00046e-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 00:20:06 +0000 Received: from host213-1-151-3.btinternet.com ([213.1.151.3] helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16LZ7n-0002RN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 02 Jan 2002 00:19:20 +0000 Message-ID: <000101c19323$250f9080$039701d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: John G4CNN Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 23:52:30 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi John I am getting message bounces from your address on the Prop distribution list, hope everything is ok. Cheers and HNY de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12007 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 23:50:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 23:50:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 2422 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 23:50:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 23:50:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LYeo-0003vc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 23:49:22 +0000 Received: from dc-mx08.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.18] helo=dc-mx08.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LYen-0003vX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 23:49:21 +0000 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johncellar) by dc-mx08.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 65805991 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 18:56:25 -0500 Message-ID: <002d01c19348$b9f8c020$0300a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <003301c186e8$dabdefe0$9fa1883e@g3aqc><5.1.0.14.0.20011217162715.00abb350@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <3.0.1.16.20011218145846.2b378612@pb623250.kuleuven.be> <007001c18807$c3f5d0a0$fb9a17d2@steve> <004501c192fe$ac478000$ee9a17d2@steve> <001201c1932d$85ae7960$0300a8c0@charter.net> Subject: LF: Re: W1TAG Screen Captures II Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 23:48:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: It's very noisy here tonight, and conditions seem to have slipped as well. If the screen captures don't show some life by 0030, I'm going to pull the setup. Need to make some bridge measurements, and the receiver's necessary for that. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20749 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 23:36:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 23:36:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 23156 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 23:36:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 23:36:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LYR8-0003ro-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 23:35:14 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LYR7-0003rj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 23:35:13 +0000 Received: from host62-7-41-93.btinternet.com ([62.7.41.93] helo=default) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16LYQM-0002rR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 23:34:27 +0000 Message-ID: <001501c1931c$df49af00$5d29073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: in the T/A slot Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 23:32:31 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all there seems to be someone under G4FTC tonight. They started slightly higher in frequency and have drifted through and are now on the lf side. I wont quote frequencies as I have not calibrated tonight. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13533 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 23:35:31 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 23:35:31 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26997 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 23:35:31 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 23:35:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LYPq-0003re-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 23:33:54 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LYPp-0003rZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 23:33:53 +0000 Received: from blanch.pncl.co.uk (92.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.92]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id g01NX5S19087 for ; Tue, 1 Jan 2002 23:33:06 GMT Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.2.20020101203722.009ece30@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 21:10:25 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: Frequency Standard In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20020101114249.01df2650@pop.tiscalinet.it> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Re Marco's comments: MSF is a simple absolute frequency standard accurate to 2 in 10-12. Add about 20 dB amplification to a 60 kHz ferrite rod antenna and there'll be plenty of carrier to see on a scope (in the UK anyway). Make up a divider to get your 5 or 10 MHz standard down to 100 or 10 khz and use it to lock the timebase. (Locking direct on MSF doesn't work on most scopes because MSF pulses every second and the scope loses phase in the breaks). Then fiddle your osc until it stops drifting. Takes a long time if you want to get into the 1 in 10-10 class (about the best any xtal osc will do short-term even if double-ovened) because one cycle drift at 60 kHz takes about three hours at this stability level. HBG on 75 kHz could also be used directly with the right dividers but DCF on 77.5 would be a bit more complicated. You could have a go at using Loran on 100 kHz if you're into this sort of thing. That'll give you an excellent absolute frequency standard but what about drift in your Tx (and Rx) oscs? To take full advantage of 60-sec dots and Argo/Spectran you need to drift less than 0.02 Hz in 180 secs dash length. That's 1 in 10-10. You need a double-ovened proportional-control reference osc to do this, even short-term. The usual "high-stability" ham options are only good to 1 in 10-7. Stewart - careful with those Piezo/HCD/HP oscs; they have different pinouts. Also, the Piezo ones are fast warmup and need about 0.5A at 24v to get going while HCD/HP need only 0.2A. The HCD are somewhat sensitive to attitude (g effects) although OK if kept in one position and are trickier to adjust than Piezo/HP. Marco - it's the rubidiums that get poisoned quicker, average life about 5 years. The cell in my Efratom unit is on its last legs after 7 years. Caesiums get noisy after 10 years. 90% of the GPS sats that have died did so because all four Rb/Cs went down after 10 years or so. Old Rb/Cs units are worth buying only for the xtal oscs in them. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9047 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 23:15:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 23:15:19 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11840 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 23:15:18 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 23:15:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LY5T-0003o3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 23:12:51 +0000 Received: from smtp1.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.91] helo=mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LY5S-0003ny-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 23:12:50 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.108.187]) by mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Tue, 1 Jan 2002 19:12:49 -0400 Message-ID: <3C32892A.F0DAD9DA@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 23:14:34 -0500 From: "john currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 136 tonight Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all G4FTC started coming through at 2000Z . Next saw G3 added. looked like Mal Then QRT Then YXM and finally AQC started Will capture through night 73 de john VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18025 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 23:06:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 23:06:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 15998 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 23:06:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 23:06:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LXvU-0003lh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 23:02:32 +0000 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LXvT-0003lc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 23:02:31 +0000 Received: from host217-35-44-222.in-addr.btopenworld.com ([217.35.44.222] helo=dellboy) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16LXug-0003bi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 23:01:42 +0000 Message-ID: <001a01c19318$46def6c0$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: conditions tonight Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 23:01:38 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Dear all.
 
There are several signals on tonight, I think Laurie is on .9215 and I'm on .9225 but only slight traces are visible on John's screen grabs so things aren't looking good so far.
It's a great idea to have the rolling grabs on the net, thanks John!
 
I'll close down soon, I must get some sleep after the excesses of last night....
I'll try running the beacon from about 0730 until 0900 or so to see when morning propagation fades out (if there is any!).
 
73 and happier new year to all.
Dave
G3YXM.
 
 
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13778 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 22:06:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 22:06:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28102 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 22:06:44 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 22:06:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LX0b-0003c4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 22:03:45 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LX0a-0003bz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 22:03:44 +0000 Received: from ldsas11-75-126-170.cw-visp.com ([212.137.126.170] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16LWpO-00076V-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 21:52:10 +0000 Message-ID: <3C323216.133285E3@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 22:03:02 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: tonight/Tuesday Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Sri going to be busy this evening/night and will not be on 136 khz. de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7050 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 21:49:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 21:49:39 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17969 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 21:49:38 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 21:49:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LWkO-0003Xk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 21:47:00 +0000 Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.98]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LWkN-0003Xf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 21:46:59 +0000 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.13c.717b816 (18252) for ; Tue, 1 Jan 2002 16:46:09 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <13c.717b816.29638821@aol.com> Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 16:46:09 EST Subject: LF: Very slow DFCW To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 72 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, tonight I'd like to try SpecLab's limits in generating extremely slow DFCW: 300 s dashes + 100 s spaces, frequency shift 25 mHz. I'll be on 135922.275 /.300 Hz (if it's free) starting at 21:45, one callsign will take abt 2.5 hours. I wonder if there is any benefit of using symbol durations longer than the typical fading timescale. 73 de Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5353 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 21:20:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 21:20:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1754 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 21:20:42 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 21:20:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LWJM-0003TK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 21:19:04 +0000 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LWJL-0003TF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 21:19:03 +0000 Received: from host213-122-62-77.btinternet.com ([213.122.62.77]) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 16LWIa-0006I4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 21:18:16 +0000 From: "Nick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: 7fsk g4jnt Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 21:13:46 +0000 Message-ID: References: <000d01c18ba8$952b6420$969c01d4@g4jnt> In-reply-to: <000d01c18ba8$952b6420$969c01d4@g4jnt> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On Sun, 23 Dec 2001 11:54:19 -0000, you wrote: > I know the reason for adopting LSB on the 1.8 / 3.5 / 7Mhz bands was >to avoid clashing with shared users of the bands but..... Historical note, I think you will find that upper sideband above 9MHz and lover below it came about from generating an upper sideband signal at 9MHz and then either mixing up or down from there, I imagine it was convenient to limit the tuning range of your oscillator and pick off the sum or difference as appropriate. Nick From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29835 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 20:36:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 20:36:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 11659 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 20:36:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 20:36:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LVcM-0003MI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 20:34:38 +0000 Received: from dc-mx07.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.17] helo=dc-mx07.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LVcL-0003MD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 20:34:37 +0000 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johncellar) by dc-mx07.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 13579672 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 15:45:37 -0500 Message-ID: <001201c1932d$85ae7960$0300a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <003301c186e8$dabdefe0$9fa1883e@g3aqc><5.1.0.14.0.20011217162715.00abb350@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <3.0.1.16.20011218145846.2b378612@pb623250.kuleuven.be> <007001c18807$c3f5d0a0$fb9a17d2@steve> <004501c192fe$ac478000$ee9a17d2@steve> Subject: LF: W1TAG Screen Captures II Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 20:33:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have started the the screen capture machinery as of 2030 UTC. The results will be updated every 15 minutes through 0300. Again, this is an Argo 60 sec/dot screen, covering 135.921 to 135.924 kHz. The latest screen may be seen at: http://webpages.charter.net/w1tag/cap-1.jpg John Andrews, W1TAG FN42ch From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11026 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 19:59:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 19:59:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 1877 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 19:59:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 19:59:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LUye-0003Fc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 19:53:36 +0000 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LUyc-0003FX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 19:53:35 +0000 Received: from steve (ppp238.dyn154.pacific.net.au [210.23.154.238]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA17251 for ; Wed, 2 Jan 2002 06:52:42 +1100 Message-ID: <004501c192fe$ac478000$ee9a17d2@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <003301c186e8$dabdefe0$9fa1883e@g3aqc><5.1.0.14.0.20011217162715.00abb350@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <3.0.1.16.20011218145846.2b378612@pb623250.kuleuven.be> <007001c18807$c3f5d0a0$fb9a17d2@steve> Subject: LF: SQUID and GENIE... Date: Wed, 2 Jan 2002 06:58:16 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G'day All, Further to my post on the 19/12/01 I have put up some further info on SQUID and GENIE - schemes for weak signal transmissions on LF - on my website. If interested go to:- ============================================= HomePage URL: http://www.zeta.org.au/~ollaneg ============================================= and look for the links under the "Experimental Communications Modes" section. Comments, giggles, guffaws ??? 73s Steve Olney (VK2ZTO/AXSO - QF56IK : Lat -33 34 07, Long +150 44 40) ============================================= HomePage URL: http://www.zeta.org.au/~ollaneg Containing:- ULF, ELF, VLF & LF Experimentation MF 22m Experimentation InfraSonic Experimentation Laser Comms DX ============================================= From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28405 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 17:32:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 17:32:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 494 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 17:32:15 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 17:32:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LSkW-0002yK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 17:30:52 +0000 Received: from smtp1.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.91] helo=mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LSkV-0002yF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 17:30:51 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.112.56]) by mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Tue, 1 Jan 2002 13:31:20 -0400 Message-ID: <3C323920.62AEBEF4@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 17:33:05 -0500 From: "john currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 136 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all last night was interesting. Thanks to Jim for moving out of narrow window. Some observations 1 G4FTC, except for some minor fade outs, was in continuously from 1930 Z til 0905Z. That is 45 minutes before my sunset til 30 or 40 minutes after his sunset. 2Also seen were G3KEV, G3AQC, and DF6NM All "O" copy at various times 3 There appears to be a station 0.1Hz above DF6NM but can't pull him out. 4 There seems to be another station 0.3 Hz below G4FTC . I think it might be DJ2LF . I have a Loran line .02 Hz below this stn please QSY up 50 milliHz or down 200 MilliHz. G3AQC is experimenting with close spaced 3fsk 73 all es hny VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10720 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 16:57:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 16:57:32 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28045 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 16:57:31 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 16:57:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LSCj-0002of-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 16:55:57 +0000 Received: from mta23-acc.tin.it ([212.216.176.76] helo=fep23-svc.tin.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LSCi-0002oa-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 16:55:56 +0000 Received: from base ([212.171.201.246]) by fep23-svc.tin.it (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with SMTP id <20020101165436.KQHM15319.fep23-svc.tin.it@base> for ; Tue, 1 Jan 2002 17:54:36 +0100 From: "VALERIO" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 136 kHz tonight Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 17:49:57 +0100 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.1.99] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <02010117495700.14843@base> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello all and Happy new year again. I will be on 135,922 this evening starting from 21:00 UTC '73 Valerio From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19572 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 16:29:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 16:29:00 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17358 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 16:28:59 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 16:28:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LRlM-0002ko-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 16:27:40 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LRlL-0002kj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 16:27:39 +0000 Received: from ldsas14-78-129-183.cw-visp.com ([212.137.129.183] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16LRa8-0003T1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 16:16:05 +0000 Message-ID: <3C31E30C.6AF80D67@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 16:25:48 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: Web-Post Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Your web post is a great idea and lets us on this side of the Atlantic see if we are making it and the progress throughout the night. I also check the web post of Dex/W4DEX both very useful. I will be active tonight again from about 2130 - 2400 utc looking for xband qso's TX/RX on 7025 khz as well as the 136 khz band. Will be looking especially for those USA stations that sent me reports and screen shots last night but did not call for xband, please call tonight. Worked so far VE1ZJ, W1TAG and W4DEX. The most distant from me so far is 6277.5km (3923miles) according to the Buckmaster info, not yet checked with GPS. Thanks to all engaged in this activity for the excitement. de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14390 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 15:49:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 15:49:53 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1402 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 15:49:52 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 15:49:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LR9E-0002eF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 15:48:16 +0000 Received: from mta01.btfusion.com ([62.172.195.11] helo=btclick.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LR9D-0002eA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 15:48:15 +0000 Received: from virgin.net ([213.121.109.26]) by btclick.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.05) with ESMTP id GP9NUA04.O3P for ; Tue, 1 Jan 2002 15:46:58 +0000 Message-ID: <3C31D95B.4423D729@virgin.net> Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 15:44:27 +0000 From: "Stewart Bryant" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: GPS-based Frequency Standard References: <5.1.0.14.0.20020101114249.01df2650@pop.tiscalinet.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > > Other possibilities are: > 1) the HP 10811A alone. An excellent oscillator, and you may expect > some parts in 10^-8 per year from a good unit operated continuously. > But keep a spare unit... I've seen some of them "die" of quartz > inactivity. And you must have access to a primary standard for > tuning and checking it. We may have some of these at CARC. Stewart G3YSX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25794 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 14:43:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 14:43:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27192 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 14:43:21 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 14:43:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LQ2E-0002Ur-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 14:36:58 +0000 Received: from smtp1.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.91] helo=mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LQ2C-0002Um-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 14:36:57 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.110.62]) by mail-ns01s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Tue, 1 Jan 2002 10:34:19 -0400 Message-ID: <3C320FA4.530ED231@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 14:36:05 -0500 From: "john currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: waste References: <200112311645.fBVGjQ808427@smtp.wanadoo.nl> <3.0.5.32.20011231212346.00988c60@pop3.esoterica.pt> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Noise VE1ZJ Brian Rogerson wrote: > I wish I could have expressed this so well in Italian. Perhaps > Steve could do it for us from down under:-). Surely you could > even run six QRSS signals through the middle of the sequential > D2T M7F without a problem. If I can read it cleanly here > why is there a problem over the water? Surely not receiver > blocking? > 73 Brian > > At 18:32 31/12/2001 +0100, you wrote: > >>From the screen capture I posted in a previous message > >this morning, it is quite evident that yesterday evening > >the band was crowded, but NO-ONE stepped on the > >toes of another. The signals were all quite identifiable, > >being disjointed in frequency. > > > >While myself think that the 7FSK is not optimal, nevertheless > >it is a first step to leave behind our shoulders the CW, the > >son of the spark transmitters. For weak-signal work, more > >modern coding schemes must be used, based on the current > >status of the information theory. And, having myself been a CW > >operator for many years, I do recognize its charm, but I am > >afraid it is a charm based on nostalgy... > >In this world there must be ample space for nostalgy, but > >nostalgy should not mean nor imply immobility or ultra-conservatism. > > > >Just my 2 cents of Euro (what an appropriate time...:-) > > > >73 Alberto I2PHD > > > > > > > > > > > 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W > http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 567 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 14:16:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 14:16:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 13222 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 14:16:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 14:16:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LPfV-0002Rq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 14:13:29 +0000 Received: from dc-mx08.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.18] helo=dc-mx08.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LPfU-0002Rl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 14:13:29 +0000 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johncellar) by dc-mx08.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 65661371 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 09:20:32 -0500 Message-ID: <003001c192f8$31277a20$0300a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200201011230.g01CUw812220@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Subject: Re: LF: 136kHz tonight Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 14:12:01 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Well, the web-posted screen captures worked fine last night. In the 135.921 to .924 window, G3AQC, G3KEV and G4FTC were clearly identified. DF6NM was also there, identifiable by frequency, but not by copy. Had a 40 meter cross-band qso with G3KEV. The final shot has a complete ID from G4FTC at 0315, and can be seen at the top of the screen: http://webpages.charter.net/w1tag/cap-1.jpg Can do the web posting again tonight if there is interest. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10509 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 12:37:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 12:37:30 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24270 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 12:37:27 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 12:37:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LO5E-0002F5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 12:31:56 +0000 Received: from smtp2.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.35.138] helo=smtp.wanadoo.nl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LO5B-0002F0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 12:31:53 +0000 Received: from nl9222 (p1476.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.170.201]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id g01CUw812220 for ; Tue, 1 Jan 2002 13:30:58 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <200201011230.g01CUw812220@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 12:31:6 +0000 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 136kHz tonight X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] X-FoxAttach: C:\My Documents\135all.gif MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------090606060806060804040205" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090606060806060804040205 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 12/31/01 11:40:00 PM, you wrote: >Hello all, > >Recorded tonight: > >135.9246 G4FTC -63dB >135.9244 DJ2LF -55dB >135.9229 DF6NM -48dB DFCW >135.9225 G3KEV -53dB >73 and a Happy New Year! >Heinz, OE5EEP Hi all.. Another report at a closer distance -------------------------------------- 135.9246 G4FTC -26.1dB 135.9244 DJ2LF -36.1dB 135.9229 DF6NM -29.0dB 135.9225 G3KEV -21.8dB -------------------------------------- Evm image attached "135all.gif" 12kb 73 Ko, NL9222 --------------090606060806060804040205 Content-Type: image/gif; name="135all.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="135all.gif" R0lGODlheAJwALMAAAAAAFpaWmNjY29vb4eHh6SkpLW1tb29vcbGxs7OztbW1t7e3ufn5+/v 7/f39////ywAAAAAeAJwAAAE/vDJSau9OOOmp/tOJ1ocxYThSKpi2rksCz9hGd+dLc08peOs xkxW6e1QFJfyweAMPbvka8K4lIZPmraikFw9pZ/U+ljEeE9XFdYQFi9ZTyq+rfrCDpsTWJx7 K24aM2IqfhkfZ3xabT6ANzN2UIotk1OVlxOEcI6SmHx0W50WoDUSdpo4OimRnlopZg9hh6Jw HLC0haGtrbI+hm+SRsJ0eTdrij9GsymEyhYMJ1Scm6OOervViWNE26yfFd6gP6rZuTHjlkCD xQ8KDt4tgdsfsPCChDYwDl3bGskr/JhNo4RNEaQojUYg+pOEg5h8cVDVqqRG1why5RDGqrBg QUUK/h61SbNY0NSNH/ZESsSgLIS3leESyjSn4l/BJV4WmgmpKBqUBvXO3TKxAUEOUj32gRs4 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warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 10:50:54 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5522 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 10:50:53 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 10:50:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LMTj-00021g-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 10:49:07 +0000 Received: from mail-5.tiscalinet.it ([195.130.225.151] helo=mail.tiscalinet.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LMTi-00021b-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 10:49:06 +0000 Received: from ath650.tiscalinet.it (62.10.42.189) by mail.tiscalinet.it (5.5.053) id 3C067F2A00D1B6D5 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 1 Jan 2002 11:47:48 +0100 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20020101114249.01df2650@pop.tiscalinet.it> X-Sender: spin.elec@pop.tiscalinet.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 11:47:45 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Marco Bruno IK1ODO" Subject: LF: GPS-based Frequency Standard MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, Dexter W4DEX asked about frequency standards on the LOWFER reflector. I presume that the subject may be of interest also there in times of very narrow band communications. The question was: >Is there anyone on this list who is familiar with Brooks Shera's >GPS-based Frequency Standard project which was published in QST, July >98? Info can also be found at: > >http://www.rt66.com/~shera/ The Brooks Shera's project is very good, but not inexpensive. For best results you need a Motorola UT+ GPS receiver. I bought it new three years ago for about $200 including the antenna. The PCB and components cost about $100, then you need a stable OCXO. I use a surplus unit by Oscilloquartz, coming from an Omega receiver. The best choice for cost vs. quality is an HP 10811A, contained in many instruments, of wich the more common is the 5328A-H99 universal counter, available probably around $150. Sometimes it contains the 10544A oscillator; if possible look for the 10811A, it has better stability, less noise and less power drain. If you have to buy all the parts you spend about $450. The project is not very complex, but you have to understand operation and tweek with time constants and receiver settings, then monitor it for some week to verify performance. From the point of view of a standard frequency aficionado (as I am...) it is VERY interesting. For general purpose use it is quite complex to manage; but when it works you forget it. Other possibilities are: 1) the HP 10811A alone. An excellent oscillator, and you may expect some parts in 10^-8 per year from a good unit operated continuously. But keep a spare unit... I've seen some of them "die" of quartz inactivity. And you must have access to a primary standard for tuning and checking it. 2) a Rubidium standard. A cheap one is worth $200-250 (check Ebay). You get probably some parts in 10^10/year from an Efratom M100, but again you need a way of checking it (need a Cesium!) 3) a Cesium standard. Now, it's a primary one!. Absolutely not suggested to the average amateur, since the initial cost may be low (some $2000 or $3000), but the tube has short life and it is VEEERY expensive. 4) an HP Z3801A. An embedded GPS standard frequency receiver like the Brooks Shera project, but simpler to use and already boxed! You add power, a PC and a GPS antenna, and get 10 MHz. Performance very close to the Brooks Shera project, cost about $450 on Ebay, varying availability. I have one working at the QRL, and I am happy about it. I use it to check the long term stability of our Cs and Rb, and it is a good performer. If you need more info, let me know. 73 ES HNY - Marco IK1ODO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4419 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 10:19:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 10:19:38 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29373 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 10:19:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 10:19:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LLzx-0001xl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 10:18:21 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LLzw-0001xg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 10:18:20 +0000 Received: from ldsas16-80-131-31.cw-visp.com ([212.137.131.31] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16LLok-0001py-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 10:06:46 +0000 Message-ID: <3C318687.E8B98F39@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 09:51:03 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: w4dex Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Now being called with a OOO report on 136 by Dex on 7025 khz what a way to start the New Year hi xband galore to night. Happy New Year Dex and thanks for your expertise and hard work on 136 khz de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23081 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 09:41:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 09:41:39 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9182 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 09:41:38 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 09:41:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LLIv-0001q7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 09:33:53 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LLIu-0001q2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 09:33:52 +0000 Received: from ldsas11-75-126-28.cw-visp.com ([212.137.126.28] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16LL7e-0000lh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 09:22:15 +0000 Message-ID: <3C3180AD.315A766C@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 09:26:05 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: W1TAG QSO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello John. Thanks for the screen shots on your web site. Did appreciate the call on 7025 khz to work my first xband with the USA. 136 khz/7025 khz. You had a nice signal on 7mhz despite the Aurora effect. Happy New Year and many thanks again for all the effort from you during 2001 and hope we do it again many times during 2002 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7339 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 09:39:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 09:39:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8333 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 09:39:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 09:39:08 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LLJ8-0001qE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 09:34:06 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LLJ7-0001q9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 09:34:05 +0000 Received: from ldsas11-75-126-28.cw-visp.com ([212.137.126.28] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 16LL7t-0000ll-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 09:22:30 +0000 Message-ID: <3C3181F9.8A5465F9@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 01 Jan 2002 09:31:37 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: W1TAG Screen Captures References: <3C30E95A.40CEA8CD@qsl.net> <000c01c1924e$5dae6860$0300a8c0@charter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John Andrews wrote: > >From 2300 until 0300, captures of the 135.921 - 135.924 spectrum as received > at W1TAG, Holden, Massachusetts (FN42ch) will be available at: > > http://webpages.charter.net/w1tag/cap-1.jpg > > The screen shots will be updated automatically every 15 minutes. Note that > 800 Hz represents 135.922 fairly exactly. > > In event of failure of the automatic process (likely!), I'll update the > pictures manually as soon as I realize what's going on. > > John Andrews, W1TAG Great idea John to monitor progress and thanks for all the effort that you and the boys over in the USA and Canada put into this project during 2001 and hope it continues this year. Happy New Year. de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15591 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 02:57:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 02:57:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 6035 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 02:57:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 02:57:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LEzH-000148-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 02:49:11 +0000 Received: from gemini.smart.net ([205.197.48.109]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LEzE-000143-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 02:49:08 +0000 Received: from 3114601 (max3p242d.smart.net [205.197.53.242]) by gemini.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA30157 for ; Mon, 31 Dec 2001 21:48:16 -0500 Message-ID: <002001c1926e$c5d34620$f235c5cd@3114601> From: "lloyd chastant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: A bit of 7FSK at W3NF Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 21:48:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060007090409050509080405" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060007090409050509080405 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit --------------060007090409050509080405 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="135922dec31a.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="135922dec31a.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAAEAlgCWAAD//gAfTEVBRCBUZWNobm9sb2dpZXMgSW5jLiBWMS4wMQD/ 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rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13847 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 02:49:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 02:49:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 2555 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 02:49:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 02:49:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LEvI-00013z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 02:45:04 +0000 Received: from dc-mx04.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.14] helo=dc-mx04.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LEvH-00013u-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 02:45:03 +0000 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johncellar) by dc-mx04.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 1931309 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 31 Dec 2001 21:50:36 -0500 Message-ID: <007401c19298$0455ca20$0300a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C30E95A.40CEA8CD@qsl.net> <000c01c1924e$5dae6860$0300a8c0@charter.net> Subject: LF: Re: W1TAG Screen Captures Date: Tue, 1 Jan 2002 02:43:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G4FTC coming in nice and hot on 135.924 at 0245 W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10446 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 01:18:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 01:18:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 26672 invoked from network); 1 Jan 2002 01:17:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jan 2002 01:17:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LDTk-0000u2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 01:12:32 +0000 Received: from gemini.smart.net ([205.197.48.109]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16LDTi-0000tx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 01 Jan 2002 01:12:30 +0000 Received: from 3114601 (max3p207d.smart.net [205.197.53.207]) by gemini.smart.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA27172 for ; Mon, 31 Dec 2001 20:11:38 -0500 Message-ID: <001201c19261$46608c20$cf35c5cd@3114601> From: "lloyd chastant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 135khz capture from Maryland W3NF Date: Mon, 31 Dec 2001 20:11:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------040606020404060602060205" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040606020404060602060205 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here is a brief capture at about 0100z in Maryland(FM19MH) de Lloyd W3NF --------------040606020404060602060205 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="135922dec31.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="135922dec31.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAAEAlgCWAAD//gAfTEVBRCBUZWNobm9sb2dpZXMgSW5jLiBWMS4wMQD/ 2wCEAD8rLzcvJz83MzdHQz9LX55mX1dXX8KKknKe5cnx7eHJ3dn9/////f///9nd//////// ////9f////////////8BQ0dHX1NfumZmuv//3f////////////////////////////////// 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