From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24794 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2001 20:37:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2001 20:37:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 2038 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2001 20:38:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2001 20:38:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169uOL-00060c-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 20:36:13 +0000 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.129]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169uOK-00060R-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 20:36:12 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.181.58]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20011130203455.SYIQ3964.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Sat, 1 Dec 2001 09:34:55 +1300 Message-ID: <002901c179de$ef936740$5cb21bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011130180416.00a04510@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Subject: LF: ZL6QH tests Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 09:37:34 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, It is a fine day here today in Wellington, so there is little doubt that we will have ZL6QH running on LF from this afternoon. The DFCW emission will use 137.7896/137.7900 kHz, with 120 second dot length, sending QQQQ.... from earlier than 0700 UTC till after 1700 UTC (equivalent to Saturday night New Zealand time, overnight and with some light periods evening and morning as well). If LF propagation is suitable with Steve VE7SL (he has twice before received ZL6QH on LF) , then ZL6QH will decrease the dot length to 20 seconds or so to attempt a cross-band contact, LF to HF. This attempt could occur over the time frame of 1400 - 1530 UTC, in the pre-dawn period for VE7. This happens to be in the pre-pre-dawn period for ZL6QH and may be conducive to watching eyelids rather than S meters, however if that happens it will explain the change of signal format for other DX listeners, during that period. All other times ZL6QH will stick to 120 second dot length transmission. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7193 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2001 20:27:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2001 20:27:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 12001 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2001 20:27:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2001 20:27:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169uDu-0005yQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 20:25:26 +0000 Received: from fep03.swip.net ([130.244.199.131] helo=fep03-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169uDs-0005yL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 20:25:25 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.12.187]) by fep03-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20011130202442.CVDL15944.fep03-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 21:24:42 +0100 Message-ID: <005901c179dd$11bb37a0$bb0c97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001501c17938$c76e2b20$2c0a97d4@oemcomputer> <169qVr-0rJpxoC@fwd02.sul.t-online.com> Subject: Re: LF: [off band] 80m QRSS QRPpp beacon on the air Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 21:22:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Uwe/dj8wx wrote: > SM6LKM MICRO That is correct! Thanks for the report. > Wolfgang, DL4YHF, Du bist auch gehört worden. Is Wolfgang also transmitting QRSS on HF? 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20939 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2001 19:05:48 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2001 19:05:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17343 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2001 19:06:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2001 19:06:11 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169swU-0005ni-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 19:03:22 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169swT-0005nd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 19:03:21 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 169svl-0006Gy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 19:02:37 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 169suc-00037W-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 19:01:26 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011130185959.00adfa38@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 19:02:34 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: VIRUS In-reply-to: <3C07D19F.27987532@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF group, At 18:36 30/11/2001 +0000, Mal wrote: >It is just a matter of time before the whole DIGITAL system grinds all >of modern communications to a halt. >The remedy is back to analogue and the man with a backpack tx/rx using >hand sent CW will win in the end. Dot = 1, space = 0, dash = 111 ? Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7273 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2001 18:56:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2001 18:56:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 5598 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2001 18:56:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2001 18:56:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169sn6-0005l3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:53:40 +0000 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169sn4-0005ky-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:53:38 +0000 Received: from abc (man-s242.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.45.113]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id fAUIqq918521 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:52:52 GMT Message-ID: <000201c179d0$6307d260$712df7c2@zetnet.co.uk> From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <014601c17907$95e48d00$602dfd3e@compaq> Subject: LF: Re: NEWS - Ethernet Over Mains Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 14:53:34 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by zetnet.co.uk id fAUIqq918521 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thinking about the local mains distribution, I wonder how easy it would be for an evildoer to go in for (non)wire tapping? John Rabson G3PAI ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tracey Gardner" To: "RSGB LF Group" Sent: Thursday, November 29, 2001 6:56 PM Subject: LF: NEWS - Ethernet Over Mains > Anybody want to volunteer to be a pilot site and say goodbye to > the LF bands? :-) > > Tracey > > > Ethernet Over Mains > 29 November 2001 > > "A new base for a Welsh company which is developing technology > likely to revolutionise communications in the home and in the > small firms sector is being officially opened this week at > Imperial Park, Newport. > > LANergy Ltd. intends to double its existing workforce of some 13 > scientists as it begins production of hardware and software, > which will allow small and medium sized firms and private homes > easy access to the astonishing potential offered by broadband > communications. > > The company was created earlier this year with the backing of a > £1.35 million investment syndicate which was led by Finance > Wales' Innovation Fund and which included Welsh technology > entrepreneur Terry Matthews together with Jon Moulton of Alchemy > Partners and venture capital company 'Wales Fund Managers' > > Essentially, LANergy's pioneering technology removes the need to > wire every device in the home or office into a new network to use > high speed, broadband voice, video and data. > > The cost of doing has so far deterred most SME's from installing > new networking links and enjoying the huge business benefits of > broadband communications. > > But LANergy's technology will use existing electrical circuits to > allow homes and business to connect personal computers, TVs, > telephones and other devices without the need to install any new > wiring. > > It will also mean that many more people in future will find it > easier to work from home > > LANergy's new headquarters at Imperial Park was jointly declared > opened today by the company's newly appointed Chairman David Dey, > formerly Chairman of British Telecom and of Energis, and by > Finance Wales' Chief Executive Colin Mitten. > > Said David Dey: " We have some tremendously exciting technology > which is on the verge of coming to market. Looking forward, we > plan to grow the company and become a significant, > technology-based employer in the Newport region. These are very > exciting times for LANergy." > > http://www.lanergy.com/ > > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25293 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2001 18:40:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2001 18:40:33 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17273 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2001 18:40:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2001 18:40:56 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169sY2-0005iM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:38:06 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169sY1-0005iH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:38:05 +0000 Received: from ldsas14-78-129-195.cw-visp.com ([212.137.129.195] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 169sNP-0005Pw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:27:08 +0000 Message-ID: <3C07D19F.27987532@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:36:15 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: VIRUS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All Email and other digital communications plagued with various contamination, satellite systems although using FDM and TDM modulation the baseband data is primarily digital. It is just a matter of time before the whole DIGITAL system grinds all of modern communications to a halt. The remedy is back to analogue and the man with a backpack tx/rx using hand sent CW will win in the end. Although digital systems do have advantages of flexibility over analogue, their weakness is also digital destruction. Analogue is not a structured system and therefore less vunerable to tampering. History does repeat it self and the wheel often turns full circle. You achieve something on one hand and lose it on the other. Like the vunerability of solid state devices, a lightening strike and all is lost. Transistors and chip devices zapped. The valve of yesteryears will live on and is virtually imune to such destruction. Digital systems becomming more sophisticated but so are the viruses to neutralize the advances and in the end the virus could win. What sort of progess is this ?? G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6354 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2001 18:17:58 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2001 18:17:58 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21171 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2001 18:18:21 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2001 18:18:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169sCi-0005em-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:16:04 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169sCg-0005eh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:16:03 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 169sBz-0005M9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:15:19 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 169sAq-0002kA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:14:08 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011130180416.00a04510@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:14:17 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: 73k Last night MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Transmitted QRSS beacon sigs on 72.4018kHz again last night (29th/30th Nov) from about 2330 until 0610. Won't be QRV tonight, because I will be preparing to try and receive ZL6QH' s signals (and VA3LK if he is still transmitting) - good luck to all involved. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12454 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2001 18:06:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2001 18:06:23 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8030 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2001 18:06:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2001 18:06:21 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169s0A-0005cs-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:03:06 +0000 Received: from mout01.kundenserver.de ([195.20.224.132]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169s09-0005cn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:03:05 +0000 Received: from [195.20.224.220] (helo=mrvdom04.kundenserver.de) by mout01.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 169rzR-0005mo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 19:02:21 +0100 Received: from pd9014b19.dip.t-dialin.net ([217.1.75.25] helo=diolog.de) by mrvdom04.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 169rzQ-0006Mr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 19:02:20 +0100 Message-ID: <3C07BBD5.5672F9E5@diolog.de> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 18:03:17 +0100 From: "Fabian Kurz" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: de MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: [off band] 80m QRSS QRPpp beacon on the air References: <001501c17938$c76e2b20$2c0a97d4@oemcomputer> <169qVr-0rJpxoC@fwd02.sul.t-online.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Group, I am considering to put up another QRPPP/QRSS beacon on 1,843 MHz .. I have a lot of XTALS for this frq. Wl let u know when it is on the air .. 73, Fabian dj1yfk (Will be back QRV on 136 next weekend finally!) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 600 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2001 16:32:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2001 16:32:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18860 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2001 16:32:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2001 16:32:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169qX2-0005O5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 16:28:56 +0000 Received: from mailout00.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.16] helo=mailout00.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169qWz-0005Nz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 16:28:53 +0000 Received: from fwd02.sul.t-online.de by mailout00.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 169qWI-0007mM-02; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:28:10 +0100 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.227.109.8]) by fwd02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 169qVr-0rJpxoC; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:27:43 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001501c17938$c76e2b20$2c0a97d4@oemcomputer> Subject: Re: LF: [off band] 80m QRSS QRPpp beacon on the air X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------010403030200060208060006" Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 17:27:43 +0100 Message-ID: <169qVr-0rJpxoC@fwd02.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010403030200060208060006 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Johan Bodin schrieb: > Hi dear All > > The QRPpp beacon is now on the air again with improved stability. > Frequency is derived from the OCXO in my GPS disciplined freq. > standard but the GPS antenna is down at the moment so the absolute > freq. is unknown... However, the beacon shouldn't drift very much now. > > Frequency: 3593 kHz > Modulation: QRSS3 > > The power is temporarily QROed up to 10mW output. Operators with > a decent degree of CW skill, and tall towers, should have no problem > copying the beacon signal by ear at 1000km distance, at least... :-) > > What does the beacon say? > > 73 Johan SM6LKM Heja Johan, SM6LKM MICRO Im reading. SpecLab made a KM-picture of artistic merit. see attachment. Wolfgang, DL4YHF, Du bist auch gehört worden. Ich bin bald vom Hocker gefallen ob Deines lauten Signales. regards Uwe/dj8wx --------------010403030200060208060006 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="SM6LKM2.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="SM6LKM2.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEBLAEsAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRof Hh0aHBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwh MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAAR CABYATADASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA AgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkK FhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWG h4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl 5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEAAwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREA AgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSExBhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYk NOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElKU1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOE 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Ju2ybTJuZW2SFVTe+FwVDEA9hQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFAHF+ IfAI1PTb+Cz1O7jDpeSWtlIY/s6XFxFKjOW8sy4JnkbG4gFuBgADUHhCwa8Lzyz3Fj5s06ad MI2gSWYOJW+7vbcJZcqzMv7w4AwuCigCMeCtNW3t0jnu454bKW0F3G6idmcHNwX25M4LSkP2 M0px85qxYeFNN02/juLQSRwQvI9vZLtFvbs6RqTHGBhThHII7zTf3zRRQBl2/gVJLa7ju72e L7bLdLeR2rKUu7aS5mlSJy6Flws7gmMqfnPzHCkaEngnw++uf2zHpsFvfGKeN5raNYXczbd0 hdQHEmAQHDAje/rRRQBHJ4PiuLe7F1q+pXF3dIsUl3J5O4xKHAiMYjETp+9l4dGzvz1VSugu gWK6pZahtkaeztzbxmRvMLDgKzM2WZ1BkAYnIE0vXeaKKALl9a/bbOS3FxPbs2Cs0D7XRgQQ R2OCBwQVPQggkHDHg+KNxdQ6vqUWqF3aXUl8kyyh1jVlZTGYgMQwj5UB/djnltxRQBcfw3Zv 4ZuvDwknTTZrQ2UcasM28PlCPajEZOACctuOSecYAuXumw311p1xK0gewuDcRBSMFjFJFhuO m2RjxjkD6EooANQsG1C3mgF9d2qS28kBNsyoylwAJFbBKuuDtIOPmOQeMY8XhHy7KC2Ouakx tHR7GQRWqGzKo0f7tUhCEFHZcMrADpgjNFFAEcngWweB4Uvb6OO5iaHUArR/6ejPJIwkyh25 aaY/uvL/ANYcYAXbuR6bDFrNzqitJ59xbw27qSNoWNpGUjjOcytnnsOncooAJNNhl1m21Rmk 8+3t5rdFBG0rI0bMTxnOYlxz3PXtlp4QsJZWOqSz6xCIjBDBqQjmSGIsjFfugvzHGd0hdvkB zksSUUAR2ngyy0qwFpod5d6OPtE05ayWIbvNfcVKNGyEDCqp27lVAoOM5j/4QPS4/Iitri+t bKGW1nWzhm/dtLb+WI2YkFm+SGNCpYrgbsb8PRRQBJF4NtrVII7LUtSs447dLN1gkQGW3RmM cRYoWUIHdQyFXwcliwDDpKKKAP/Z --------------010403030200060208060006-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19193 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2001 16:28:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2001 16:28:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 13853 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2001 16:28:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2001 16:28:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169qSr-0005Nb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 16:24:37 +0000 Received: from mail6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169qSp-0005NW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 16:24:35 +0000 Received: from modem-19.aros.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.126.19] helo=g3aqc) by mail6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 169qS6-0007Dz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 16:23:50 +0000 Message-ID: <000901c179bb$6ef3c800$137e883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: DL3FDO Beacon Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 16:23:23 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I am copying DL3FDO's Beacon on137.075 rst 559 very readable . Report requested. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6813 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2001 14:23:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2001 14:23:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27212 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2001 14:23:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2001 14:23:26 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169oRc-00057a-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 14:15:12 +0000 Received: from d06lmsgate-4.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169oRZ-00057B-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 14:15:10 +0000 Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by d06lmsgate-4.uk.ibm.COM (1.0.0) with ESMTP id OAA36084; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 14:00:45 GMT Received: from usa.net (ss4.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.69]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id fAUEBjc77104; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 14:11:48 GMT Message-ID: <3C079387.2709CBA2@usa.net> Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 15:11:19 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Mailing List" , lowfer@qth.net, lf@amrad.org, MSGBOARD@LWCA.ORG, "Moon Net" Subject: LF: Maintenance release of Spectran Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have just uploaded Spectran V1 build 107. It has no new functions, but rather a couple of bug fixes, together with some modifications to make it to try harder to support some difficult sound cards. The two bugs corrected were : - When specifying an offset frequency in the Spectran Controls panel, the dB level of the peak in the spectrum pane was computed incorrectly. Fixed. - Again, when specifying an offset frequency, some too big values, or malformed values, could cause the program to crash. Fixed. Please download this version, and trash the previous, tnx. Thanks to Claudio IK2PII and Johan Bodin SM6LKM for spotting the bugs. 73 Alberto I2PHD Download it from http://www.weaksignals.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7707 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2001 09:38:36 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2001 09:38:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27586 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2001 09:38:21 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2001 09:38:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169k3k-0004b4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 09:34:16 +0000 Received: from ns3.swh.sk ([192.108.125.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169k3i-0004az-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 09:34:15 +0000 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes.swh.sk [192.108.125.60]) by ns3.swh.sk (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fAU9XPU06755 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:33:25 +0100 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA28848 for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:33:17 +0100 (MET) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:33:14 +0100 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E0333C0B6@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: First T/A test from OM2TW... Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 10:33:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi LF-ers... During the weekend 15-16.12.2001 I'll be in my "two towers" QTH and I'll try my first T/A test on 136kHz. During the daytime I'll be on CW and maybe QRSS3 (137.700kHz) too. T/A frequncies will be: 135.963kHz QRSS10 and 135.922kHz QRSS30/60/120 QSX 14065kHz or 3577kHz. Skeds are welcome. More informations later... 73 and best regards de Rich OM2TW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8122 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2001 09:01:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2001 09:01:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 16040 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2001 09:01:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2001 09:01:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169jTi-0004V8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 08:57:02 +0000 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169jTg-0004V3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 08:57:00 +0000 Received: from [62.7.36.230] (helo=dave) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 169jSt-0006as-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 08:56:11 +0000 Message-ID: <001801c1797d$5fa7f440$e624073e@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" References: <000101c1793b$21b92e20$7722073e@default> <00a901c17942$8da07470$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> Subject: LF: Re: strange message...please check Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 08:59:05 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Larry's virus mail was instantly spotted and deleted, like all the others I have received from various sources in the past few days - around 2-3 each time I download. It really is nasty work. Tip for Outlook Express (and Outlook) - enable showing of file size in your inbox (View/columns and tick the size box). Now the virus sticks out like a sore thumb, it is 40k in size. Just right click and delete, DO NOT open it at all. Even with the MS patch installed I am not convinced it is safe. Note also that the email address of the sender is prefixed by an underscore _ so that dsergeant@btinternet.com appears as _dsergeant@btinternet.com. Possibly one could set up a filter using this. Apparantly this virus is being stopped in the commercial world by their firewalls, most appear to be coming from domestic users. 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25531 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2001 06:49:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2001 06:49:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 20484 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2001 06:50:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2001 06:50:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169hRo-0004Hu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 06:46:56 +0000 Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.131]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169hRm-0004Hp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 06:46:55 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.181.162]) by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20011130064537.NKSI4439.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 19:45:37 +1300 Message-ID: <003f01c1796b$152cbe80$a2b51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001401c178ea$0549fd60$e67c883e@g3aqc> Subject: LF: Re: Re.ZL DX TESTING ON 1 Dec. Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 19:48:08 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Laurie, I published the times in UTC. The timing is for the UK sunrise on Sat 1 December, and the sunset. Most of the western European area only has the sunset phase, on Saturday 1 December. By then, it is breakfast time for me at Quartz Hill, on Sunday morning local time! 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 780 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2001 02:58:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2001 02:58:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 9596 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2001 02:59:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2001 02:59:02 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169dlY-0003tX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 02:51:04 +0000 Received: from m11.boston.juno.com ([64.136.24.74]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169dlX-0003tS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 02:51:03 +0000 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"yokUgcxCbtTP7XLrpefewIS9VH/YcmYuwB3yY6PS8v88OKqg1EKCCQ=="> Received: (from riese-k3djc@juno.com) by m11.boston.juno.com (jqueuemail) id GMF9JDKT; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 21:48:53 EST To: lowfer@qth.net Cc: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 21:44:33 -0500 Subject: LF: Fw: [Lowfer] Re: strange message...please check Message-ID: <20011129.214704.-491315.0.riese-k3djc@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-21,23-25,27,29,31-45 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "BOB RIESE" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Not a problem Larry I very nearly opened it as this one does give a txt that kinda made sense. Checked to see if it was off the list or direct and as a direct note realized something was not proper. Not much use for a pif file either Hi 73 Bob K3DJC Alan and to everyone who I did it to.... > Hi Larry, I hate to be the harbinger of what could be bad news. Don't be so dammed polite! This is a hell of a mess. For those who need help with this go to the following..... http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS01-020.asp for a patch for IE5. I run Microsoft stuff because my partner requests that I do so for business reasons. We will now revisit this decision. I am grateful, I unplugged the LAN before I signed on, standard procedure, so it only got this one machine. To all I have sent bad things to I apologize. I got the stuff from ZL, obviously not sent intentionally, and I sincerely regret getting caught. Dave Sargent, G3YMC thank you for being ready for it with your earlier email. Larry VA3LK To unsubscribe, send to MAJORDOMO@qth.net "unsubscribe lowfer" (Do not send to list!!) Send on list submissions to lowfer@qth.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29279 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2001 02:04:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2001 02:04:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 6477 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2001 02:04:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2001 02:04:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169cyp-0003nK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 02:00:43 +0000 Received: from tomts10.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.54] helo=tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169cyo-0003nF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 02:00:42 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.208.193.150]) by tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20011130015926.ODOR17034.tomts10-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1>; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 20:59:26 -0500 Message-ID: <00a901c17942$8da07470$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: "Alan Melia" , rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, lowfer@qth.net References: <000101c1793b$21b92e20$7722073e@default> Subject: LF: Re: strange message...please check Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 20:58:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alan and to everyone who I did it to.... > Hi Larry, I hate to be the harbinger of what could be bad news. Don't be so dammed polite! This is a hell of a mess. For those who need help with this go to the following..... http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS01-020.asp for a patch for IE5. I run Microsoft stuff because my partner requests that I do so for business reasons. We will now revisit this decision. I am grateful, I unplugged the LAN before I signed on, standard procedure, so it only got this one machine. To all I have sent bad things to I apologize. I got the stuff from ZL, obviously not sent intentionally, and I sincerely regret getting caught. Dave Sargent, G3YMC thank you for being ready for it with your earlier email. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7905 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2001 00:52:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2001 00:52:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 7077 invoked from network); 30 Nov 2001 00:52:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Nov 2001 00:52:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169brp-0003ez-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 00:49:25 +0000 Received: from fep01.swip.net ([130.244.199.129] helo=fep01-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169bro-0003eu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 00:49:24 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.10.44]) by fep01-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20011130004839.EQMT3237.fep01-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Fri, 30 Nov 2001 01:48:39 +0100 Message-ID: <001501c17938$c76e2b20$2c0a97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: [off band] 80m QRSS QRPpp beacon on the air Date: Fri, 30 Nov 2001 01:47:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi dear All The QRPpp beacon is now on the air again with improved stability. Frequency is derived from the OCXO in my GPS disciplined freq. standard but the GPS antenna is down at the moment so the absolute freq. is unknown... However, the beacon shouldn't drift very much now. Frequency: 3593 kHz Modulation: QRSS3 The power is temporarily QROed up to 10mW output. Operators with a decent degree of CW skill, and tall towers, should have no problem copying the beacon signal by ear at 1000km distance, at least... :-) What does the beacon say? 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29237 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 19:53:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 19:53:19 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 19149 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 19:53:38 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 19:53:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169XBq-00033w-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 19:49:46 +0000 Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.98]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169XBp-00033r-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 19:49:45 +0000 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.149.5711b1c (17527) for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:48:59 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <149.5711b1c.2937eb2b@aol.com> Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:48:59 EST Subject: Re: LF: dsp-filter To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 10504 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi Bernd and the Group,

I also found the mentioned program some months ago but my old PC had some problems running it.
As I see it, the most interesting features including denoiser and narrow band filters have also been implemented in *SPECTRAN*, or have I missed something ?

73 Wolf  DL4YHF. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29836 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 19:06:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 19:06:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 13506 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 19:06:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 19:06:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169WN8-0002v9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 18:57:22 +0000 Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.46]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169WN6-0002v3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 18:57:21 +0000 Received: from compaq ([62.253.44.35]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with SMTP id <20011129185633.NKO16849.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@compaq> for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 18:56:33 +0000 Message-ID: <014601c17907$95e48d00$602dfd3e@compaq> From: "Tracey Gardner" To: "RSGB LF Group" Subject: LF: NEWS - Ethernet Over Mains Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 18:56:18 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Anybody want to volunteer to be a pilot site and say goodbye to the LF bands? :-) Tracey Ethernet Over Mains 29 November 2001 "A new base for a Welsh company which is developing technology likely to revolutionise communications in the home and in the small firms sector is being officially opened this week at Imperial Park, Newport. LANergy Ltd. intends to double its existing workforce of some 13 scientists as it begins production of hardware and software, which will allow small and medium sized firms and private homes easy access to the astonishing potential offered by broadband communications. The company was created earlier this year with the backing of a £1.35 million investment syndicate which was led by Finance Wales' Innovation Fund and which included Welsh technology entrepreneur Terry Matthews together with Jon Moulton of Alchemy Partners and venture capital company 'Wales Fund Managers' Essentially, LANergy's pioneering technology removes the need to wire every device in the home or office into a new network to use high speed, broadband voice, video and data. The cost of doing has so far deterred most SME's from installing new networking links and enjoying the huge business benefits of broadband communications. But LANergy's technology will use existing electrical circuits to allow homes and business to connect personal computers, TVs, telephones and other devices without the need to install any new wiring. It will also mean that many more people in future will find it easier to work from home LANergy's new headquarters at Imperial Park was jointly declared opened today by the company's newly appointed Chairman David Dey, formerly Chairman of British Telecom and of Energis, and by Finance Wales' Chief Executive Colin Mitten. Said David Dey: " We have some tremendously exciting technology which is on the verge of coming to market. Looking forward, we plan to grow the company and become a significant, technology-based employer in the Newport region. These are very exciting times for LANergy." http://www.lanergy.com/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16733 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 18:19:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 18:19:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21745 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 18:19:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 18:19:11 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169VfW-0002q4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 18:12:18 +0000 Received: from mailout06.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.19] helo=mailout06.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169VfV-0002pz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 18:12:18 +0000 Received: from fwd00.sul.t-online.de by mailout06.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 169Veo-0002Gd-08; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 19:11:34 +0100 Received: from 217.82.35.65 (0607144537-0001@[217.82.35.65]) by fwd00.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 169Vel-1Rgy3MC; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 19:11:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: LF: dsp-filter From: "bernd grupe" To: "lf-group" X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 4.009 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: 28 Nov 2001 18:37 GMT Message-ID: <169Vel-1Rgy3MC@fwd00.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0607144537-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, someone was asking about dsp-filtering by soundcard and phone-output. There is an excellent freeware available: http://www.qsl.net/mmhamsoft/index.html (makoto mori, JE3HHT) for example: smallest filter is 64 Hz BW without any echoeffects -3dB/ -60dB = 1:5; midfreq. is adjustable from 100 to 3 kHz 73 Bernd, DF8ZR From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1077 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 17:06:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 17:06:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 2480 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 17:06:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 17:06:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169USJ-0002ec-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 16:54:35 +0000 Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.39]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169USC-0002eV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 16:54:33 +0000 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.de.1e524252 (4240) for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 11:53:10 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 11:53:09 EST Subject: Re: LF: HAARP & NASA & Hearing Meteors To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andy wrote: >And is the energy contained in a larger meteor >flash enough to produce sound at 100km distance considering that the EM >field to sound conversion efficiency cannot be particularly high ? This is the essential question. Like Jim, I still have some concerns that the effect could be from "sensory crosstalk," although there have been recordings made of what are said to be sounds resulting from grass, pine needles, etc., responding to electric fields. Now, I don't doubt that people are hearing what they report. But I'd be more of a believer in the electrophonic explanation if I could find experimental confirmation that the purported VLF waves themselves are actually being generated. Jim wrote: >If such an effect were caused by VLF somehow being perceived, >or for other reasons, would you not notice similar sounds occurring when >there was lightning near by? There is some reason to believe the EMP from a nearby lightning flash is, in fact, perceived as sound by direct reception within the human nervous system. In most such cases, though, the click or chirp is swamped by the acoustic clicks, crackles and snaps taking place in the hearer's immediate vicinity. A pretty substantial field is required to do this; it isn't perceived at more than a few score meters from the strike, if I remember correctly. 73, John Davis From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23224 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 16:39:40 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 16:39:40 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11996 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 16:39:28 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 16:39:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169U94-0002bG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 16:34:42 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169U92-0002bB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 16:34:40 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id fATGXut1081424 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 17:33:57 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20011129173125.30e76a68@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 17:31:25 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: QRS : testers wanted In-reply-to: <001501c178ea$0688e600$e67c883e@g3aqc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 15:24 29/11/01 -0000, you wrote: >Hi All, >Rik has produced a modified QRS DFCW program which omits >the gaps when there is a frequency change.This should enable a small >increase in message speed and I should like to try it out. >I will be testing this afternoon and will run the beacon tonight >from about 22.30 utc. The frequency will be 72,401.2/3 ie 0.1Hz shift. Best >display is with ARGO set to 90sec. dots but use 120 sec. for better S/N. >All reports welcome. 73s Laurie. > The option to omit redundant gaps is one of the changes. Another change if the possibility to drive the TX via the printer port. This might be usefull for those wanting to use an older notbook where the (only) serial port is occupied by the mouse. Using (or better said abusing) the printer port under windows is not an easy task, but thanks to some help from Alberto and Wolf I got it working ... Before I release the new version I would prefer to have the printer port option tested, so I am looking for some 'victims'. If you want to help and test the printer port option on your PC please give me a short notice (direct - not via the reflector), I will send you a beta version of QRS 3.10. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1102 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 15:28:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 15:28:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 1821 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 15:28:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 15:28:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169T4D-0002PU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 15:25:37 +0000 Received: from cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169T4C-0002PJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 15:25:36 +0000 Received: from modem-102.arien.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.124.230] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 169T3T-0002nQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 15:24:51 +0000 Message-ID: <001501c178ea$0688e600$e67c883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 73kHz Beacon. Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 15:24:05 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, Rik has produced a modified QRS DFCW program which omits the gaps when there is a frequency change.This should enable a small increase in message speed and I should like to try it out. I will be testing this afternoon and will run the beacon tonight from about 22.30 utc. The frequency will be 72,401.2/3 ie 0.1Hz shift. Best display is with ARGO set to 90sec. dots but use 120 sec. for better S/N. All reports welcome. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1052 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 15:28:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 15:28:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 1794 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 15:28:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 15:28:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169T4C-0002PO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 15:25:36 +0000 Received: from cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169T4B-0002PI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 15:25:35 +0000 Received: from modem-102.arien.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.124.230] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 169T3R-0002nQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 15:24:49 +0000 Message-ID: <001401c178ea$0549fd60$e67c883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re.ZL DX TESTING ON 1 Dec. Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 15:17:34 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Since ZL is ahead of us in time am I right in assuming that we should listen at tomorrow (29th Nov.) sunset and of course sunrise on Sat. 1st Dec ? 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3147 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 14:52:46 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 14:52:46 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24418 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 14:52:33 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 14:52:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169SWD-0002JX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:50:29 +0000 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169SWC-0002JS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:50:28 +0000 Received: from pickmere.demon.co.uk ([158.152.117.143]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 169SVR-000K51-0K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:49:41 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:23:51 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M.J.Powell" Subject: Re: LF: HAARP & NASA References: <000201c178d7$a4ea3a00$ae29f7c2@zetnet.co.uk> In-reply-to: <000201c178d7$a4ea3a00$ae29f7c2@zetnet.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In message <000201c178d7$a4ea3a00$ae29f7c2@zetnet.co.uk>, John Rabson writes >I have never heard meteors as they flash by, but one cold, crisp night in >the early 1960s the Fire Brigade (complete with rotating blue lights) called >at the farm next door. I went outside to see what was happening. There were >no streetlights in the village, no moon and no fire, so the only strong >light came from the fire appliances. Every time one of the lights pointed in >my direction there was a clicking sound. I wonder if this is a related >phenomenon? That was your irises clicking down. Mike M.J.Powell From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17885 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 14:24:51 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 14:24:51 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 2969 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 14:25:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 14:25:03 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169S2Y-0002Ea-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:19:50 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169S2W-0002EV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:19:49 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 169S1o-0005CY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:19:04 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 169S0e-0005Yn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:17:52 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011129135733.00ac63e8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:18:20 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: HAARP & NASA In-reply-to: <000201c178d7$a4ea3a00$ae29f7c2@zetnet.co.uk> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 12:58 29/11/2001 +0000, you wrote: >I have never heard meteors as they flash by, but one cold, crisp night in >the early 1960s the Fire Brigade (complete with rotating blue lights) called >at the farm next door. I went outside to see what was happening. There were >no streetlights in the village, no moon and no fire, so the only strong >light came from the fire appliances. Every time one of the lights pointed in >my direction there was a clicking sound. I wonder if this is a related >phenomenon? > >John Rabson Dear LF Group, Some sort of crosstalk between auditory and visual centres in the brain? I know some people experience sensations of colour when hearing certain sounds, and other senses can get cross-connected too. I suppose the way to tell would be to shut you eyes and see if the sound went away. ...If there was sufficient field strength to produce sound by the mechanism hypothesized to explain the phenomenon, these electrophonic meteors should have produced very strong noise bursts on whistler receivers... If such an effect were caused by VLF somehow being perceived, or for other reasons, would you not notice similar sounds occurring when there was lightning near by? Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1056 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 13:53:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 13:53:39 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 740 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 13:53:58 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 13:53:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169RZr-00029t-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 13:50:11 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169RZq-00029o-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 13:50:10 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id NAA08110; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 13:58:05 GMT Received: (qmail 11388 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 14:40:17 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 14:40:17 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id OAA07854; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 14:13:44 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma007823; Thu, 29 Nov 01 14:13:38 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 13:54:01 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 13:49:26 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C64F@PDW-MAIL-R1> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: HAARP & NASA & Hearing Meteors ( Off topic but interesting) Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 13:49:10 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I'm glad this subject has cropped up, even if off topic of LF. Two years ago, when the Leonids shower was going to be particularly good in the UK, with clear skies, I went out meteor spotting in the early hours of the morning to a local hilltop site in the dark countryside. There was one particularly large meteor that flashed right across the sky - a very spectacular streak of green/blue light with a visible aftertrace that lasted nearly 15 minutes. I was very convinced I heard it "swoosh" by at the time, but being a level headed skeptical sort of person, knew it wasn't possible to have heard the actual meteor entry itself. I put the apparant sound down to phychological effects (quiet, lonely environment, cold, late at night etc etc.) Now it appears that others have heard similar sounds, and more to the point come up with a reasonable explanation, I presumably did actually hear something then. Now the question remains, what is the mechanism that turns low frequency RF fields into audible sounds ? And is the energy contained in a larger meteor flash enough to produce sound at 100km distance considering that the EM field to sound conversion efficiency cannot be particularly high ? Andy G4JNT ---- > sound by the mechanism hypothesized to explain the phenomenon, these > electrophonic meteors should have produced very strong noise bursts on > whistler receivers. Still no reports of such reception from this side of the > pond, alas! Anyone on the other side encounter anything like it? > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29923 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 13:15:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 13:15:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 48 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 13:15:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 13:15:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169Qz2-00024J-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 13:12:08 +0000 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169Qyy-00024B-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 13:12:04 +0000 Received: from abc (man-s047.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.41.174]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id fATDBIf24729 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 13:11:18 GMT Message-ID: <000201c178d7$a4ea3a00$ae29f7c2@zetnet.co.uk> From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: Re: LF: HAARP & NASA Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 12:58:50 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have never heard meteors as they flash by, but one cold, crisp night in the early 1960s the Fire Brigade (complete with rotating blue lights) called at the farm next door. I went outside to see what was happening. There were no streetlights in the village, no moon and no fire, so the only strong light came from the fire appliances. Every time one of the lights pointed in my direction there was a clicking sound. I wonder if this is a related phenomenon? John Rabson ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 9:34 PM Subject: Re: LF: HAARP & NASA > In a message dated 11/28/01 2:55:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, > andre.kesteloot@ieee.org writes: > > << Apparently some folks heard meteors as they flashed by. The link is to a > NASA article which is light and yet technical. >> > > This is one of the things we alerted people to on the home page at lwca.org > before the Leonid shower. If there was sufficient field strength to produce > sound by the mechanism hypothesized to explain the phenomenon, these > electrophonic meteors should have produced very strong noise bursts on > whistler receivers. Still no reports of such reception from this side of the > pond, alas! Anyone on the other side encounter anything like it? > > 73, > John Davis > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17959 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 10:44:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 10:44:13 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9932 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 10:44:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 10:44:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169OYV-0001kq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 10:36:35 +0000 Received: from [204.202.140.198] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169OYT-0001kl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 10:36:34 +0000 Received: from gomailjtp05 ([10.212.0.165]) by mta06.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GNK00MG05D8YR@mta06.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 02:34:24 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 02:34:21 -0800 (PST) From: "John Sexton" Subject: VLF: TECH: Re:IMAGE Radio Plasma Imager To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <6122454.1007030062601.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, I listened/watched with Spectran on 15kHz, for the IMAGE Radio Plasma Imager satellite on 21/24/27th, but nothing seen at all. Thanks to Peter G8AFN, I eventually tracked down a more informative web page at: http://image.gsfc.nasa.gov/campaign/whistler_campaign.html. It appears that the satellite is transmitting with an average power of 30.8 watts in order to measure the plasma resonance frequencies characteristic of the Earth's magnetophere (3 kHz to 3 MHz). The RPI instrument consists of an electronics enclosure, four 250 m wire antennae with deployers (including switches and couplers), and a z-axis boom canister containing two 10 m lattice boom antennae and two preamplifiers. The mean period is about 854 minutes, so the mean radius of the orbit is 18,566 miles (29879 km) with an apogee at about 8 Earth Radii and the perigee over the southern hemisphere polar. When IMAGE is near perigee, either inside the plasmasphere or at low altitudes, some of the signals launched between 3 kHz and about 500 kHz may propagate in the whistler mode. An outstanding problem to be investigated under these conditions concerns whistler-mode propagation from an in situ source to the ground. It is not expected that detection of RPI signals on the ground will be a common occurrence, and the conditions under which such detection may occur will be of great scientific interest. On that web page a table is given showing where and when to listen for it. This table seems to give different longitudes to those from the Locator page, so I am a little puzzled. However it gives more precise times for the start of the VLF transmissions. For the 27th of November it gave turn-on time as 20.16 and longitude as 359.36, and one location as England. In fact on the 27th I listened from 19.30 till 20.47, which was when the transmission was scheduled to end, and despite using longer and longer integration times, saw absolutely nothing. Apparently the radio path was then 1.45 radii, so nearly 6000 miles above my head. Presumably 30 watts is not enough for that distance. There is one more opportunity for those of us in Europe : On the 30th November starting at 19.26 UT, it should be over Italy. One useful thing that came out of this effort, was a better understanding of the latest version of Spectran, especially the Band pass filter and other filters, which seems to be absolutely excellent, not ringing until one gets down to just a few Hz. It is amazing how it makes it possible to hear signals, that with Argo one can only watch. 73, John, G4CNN ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1390 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 09:34:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 09:34:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 248 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 09:34:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 09:34:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169NRX-0001b5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 09:25:19 +0000 Received: from ns1.otenet.gr ([195.170.0.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169NRU-0001b0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 09:25:16 +0000 Received: from 1 (myti530-a050.otenet.gr [212.205.251.178]) by ns1.otenet.gr (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id fAT9ORJ26668 for ; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 11:24:28 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <000301c178b7$8e789520$b2fbcdd4@1> From: "ALEX DELIGIANNIS" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000201c17824$55fd3d60$9dfbcdd4@1> <005901c1782e$a7ac4c00$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> Subject: LF: Re: Re: ICOM R-75 Date: Thu, 29 Nov 2001 08:11:30 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
John,
        Thank you for the advice I'll try some profesonal preaplifiers like HP 462 or HP 465...
Till now I used an Yaesu FRG-100 with an external speaker sp-102 and I had very good audio from weak signals both in LW and MW.. also the Smeter all the time was above S3 with a 80m loop. With the IC-75 I have sharp audio not so pleasant and I can't use the preamplifier at all due to indermodulation and birdes... I'm leaving in a quet -from RF- Island and my only problem is QRN. Thanks for your message 73's ALEX from LESBOS Is KM39GC
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 7:03 PM
Subject: LF: Re: ICOM R-75

Alex,
 
Personally, I'd leave it alone, unless you were really limited with your receiving antenna. I use a loop for LF receiving, and a 30 dB preamp. I leave the R-75 internal preamps off, as they pick up some "birdies" within the receiver. The resulting signal levels appear to be more than sufficient for serious LF work. This was the setup that I used last week to copy G3AQC on 73 kHz.
 
The R75 is a very nice receiver for the price, and one of my smarter buys.
 
John Andrews, W1TAG
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18628 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 02:58:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 02:58:39 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17684 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 02:58:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 02:58:48 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169HN2-0000vt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 02:56:16 +0000 Received: from europa.your-site.com ([140.186.45.14]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169HN1-0000vo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 02:56:15 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.181.229]) by europa.your-site.com ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 21:55:31 -0500 Message-ID: <3C05A3AE.127A8ABE@att.net> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 21:55:42 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" Organization: JDM Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Strong RTTY on 73.6 kHz References: <3C056CF6.1791AED@att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I think this may be the source: 73.6 CFH Naval-Halifax (Mill Cove), NS, Canada (FSK 75 Bd) Above found at: http://www.provcomm.net/pages/joe/introvlf.htm#Target Frequencies below 100Khz Dexter Dexter McIntyre W4DEX wrote: > > The RTTY signal I recorded a few days ago is now extremely strong in > North Carolina at 2300 UTC. As Stewart told me the shift is 75 Hz. I > have both Spectran and wav file saved if anyone is interested. > > Dexter From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11240 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 02:15:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 02:15:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1786 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 02:15:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 02:15:43 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169Ghp-0000r6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 02:13:41 +0000 Received: from europa.your-site.com ([140.186.45.14]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169Gho-0000r1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 02:13:40 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.181.229]) by europa.your-site.com ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 21:12:55 -0500 Message-ID: <3C0599AF.9C0B95F6@att.net> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 21:13:03 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" Organization: JDM Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Strong RTTY on 73.6 kHz References: <3C056CF6.1791AED@att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Maybe a LDE (long delayed echo) signal? See: http://www3.sympatico.ca/hrc/haida/radio/csr5cm11.htm Dexter McIntyre W4DEX wrote: > > The RTTY signal I recorded a few days ago is now extremely strong in > North Carolina at 2300 UTC. As Stewart told me the shift is 75 Hz. I > have both Spectran and wav file saved if anyone is interested. > > Dexter From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17537 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 00:13:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 00:13:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 19410 invoked from network); 29 Nov 2001 00:13:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Nov 2001 00:13:30 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169Eib-0000ct-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 00:06:21 +0000 Received: from europa.your-site.com ([140.186.45.14]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169EiZ-0000co-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Nov 2001 00:06:20 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.181.229]) by europa.your-site.com ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 19:05:35 -0500 Message-ID: <3C057BD7.65A14041@att.net> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 19:05:43 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" Organization: JDM Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Strong RTTY on 73.6 kHz References: <3C056CF6.1791AED@att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I figured Stewart may want to analyze the wav file so I uploaded it to: www.qsl.net/w4dex/73.6kHzRTTY28nov01.wav It's close 1 MB in size. Dexter Dexter McIntyre W4DEX wrote: > > The RTTY signal I recorded a few days ago is now extremely strong in > North Carolina at 2300 UTC. As Stewart told me the shift is 75 Hz. I > have both Spectran and wav file saved if anyone is interested. > > Dexter From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27801 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 23:04:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 23:04:35 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8207 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 23:04:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 23:04:44 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169Dj8-0000Ql-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 23:02:50 +0000 Received: from europa.your-site.com ([140.186.45.14]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169Dj7-0000Qg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 23:02:49 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.181.229]) by europa.your-site.com ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 18:02:05 -0500 Message-ID: <3C056CF6.1791AED@att.net> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 18:02:14 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" Organization: JDM Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "RSGB LF" Subject: LF: Strong RTTY on 73.6 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The RTTY signal I recorded a few days ago is now extremely strong in North Carolina at 2300 UTC. As Stewart told me the shift is 75 Hz. I have both Spectran and wav file saved if anyone is interested. Dexter From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19074 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 21:40:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 21:40:58 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1469 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 21:41:09 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 21:41:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169CMf-0000DA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 21:35:33 +0000 Received: from imo-d07.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.39]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169CMe-0000D5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 21:35:32 +0000 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-d07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.d5.fb91adf (4331) for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:34:09 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:34:09 EST Subject: Re: LF: HAARP & NASA To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 11/28/01 2:55:25 PM Eastern Standard Time, andre.kesteloot@ieee.org writes: << Apparently some folks heard meteors as they flashed by. The link is to a NASA article which is light and yet technical. >> This is one of the things we alerted people to on the home page at lwca.org before the Leonid shower. If there was sufficient field strength to produce sound by the mechanism hypothesized to explain the phenomenon, these electrophonic meteors should have produced very strong noise bursts on whistler receivers. Still no reports of such reception from this side of the pond, alas! Anyone on the other side encounter anything like it? 73, John Davis From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9169 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 19:09:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 19:09:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9053 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 19:09:54 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 19:09:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1699y1-0008R0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 19:01:57 +0000 Received: from out2.prserv.net ([32.97.166.32] helo=prserv.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1699xy-0008Qv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 19:01:56 +0000 Received: from ieee.org ([32.102.149.47]) by prserv.net (out2) with SMTP id <200111281901072020205ee9e>; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 19:01:08 +0000 Message-ID: <3C0535C0.27B6B8E0@ieee.org> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:06:40 -0500 From: "Andre Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: HAARP & NASA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Received from AA4HS AMRAD types of the LF persuasion might like to read up on HAARP's use in generating sub-5 kHz ELF signals at: http://w3.nrl.navy.mil/projects/haarp/elfhrp.html Mmm, "interaction with the naturally occurring currents flowing at auroral latitudes", Tesla would be proud. :-) ****************************** Received from N3DER Apparently some folks heard meteors as they flashed by. The link is to a NASA article which is light and yet technical. For the time impaired I will sum up; The cause could be very low frequency radio generated by turbulence in the ionized tail. The wave were strong enough to vibrate nearby objects at audio frequencies. http://science.nasa.gov/headlines/y2001/ast26nov_1.htm?list16511 ****************************** 73 André N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25656 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 17:07:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 17:07:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 6246 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 17:07:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 17:07:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16985L-0008AQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 17:01:23 +0000 Received: from ligarius-fe0.ultra.net ([146.115.8.189]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16985J-0008AL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 17:01:21 +0000 Received: from comrex (207-172-255-40.s1056.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.255.40]) by ligarius-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n26500/mtc.v2) with SMTP id MAA02034 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:00:36 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <005901c1782e$a7ac4c00$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000201c17824$55fd3d60$9dfbcdd4@1> Subject: LF: Re: ICOM R-75 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:03:20 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Alex,
 
Personally, I'd leave it alone, unless you were really limited with your receiving antenna. I use a loop for LF receiving, and a 30 dB preamp. I leave the R-75 internal preamps off, as they pick up some "birdies" within the receiver. The resulting signal levels appear to be more than sufficient for serious LF work. This was the setup that I used last week to copy G3AQC on 73 kHz.
 
The R75 is a very nice receiver for the price, and one of my smarter buys.
 
John Andrews, W1TAG
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 01:25
Subject: LF: ICOM R-75

Dear,
        I just bought a new IC R75 to replase an old FRG-100 and I'm looking for any modifications to improve the LF performance of the receiver.   Shematic diagram wasn't included with the manual.... It uses 10 DB or more attenuation below 1,6 MHZ.
Any help will be very useful to improve me LF instalation here.
Many thanks. Alex SV8QG
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6284 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 16:29:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 16:29:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 18972 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 16:30:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 16:30:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1697SV-00081u-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:21:15 +0000 Received: from fortress.tele2.co.uk ([212.19.64.194] helo=mail.tele2.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1697ST-00081p-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:21:14 +0000 Received: from martin (wireless-066-114.tele2.co.uk [212.19.66.114]) by mail.tele2.co.uk (Postfix) with SMTP id 2B1D540155 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:15:07 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <001b01c17828$90e24f20$3100a8c0@martin> From: "M0MGM" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: Coil Calculations Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 16:20:15 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2479.0006 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thats it,many thanks ----- Original Message ----- From: "Claudio Girardi" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 2:12 PM Subject: LF: Coil Calculations > Hi Martin, > maybe it is not exactly the page you are looking for but > on my pages, at http://www.qsl.net/in3otd/indcalc.html , > you can find an interactive form for computing the inductance > of a single-layer circular coil (I posted a mail about a month > ago about this). > There are also other pages, computing the inductance of a two-coil > variometer and the distributed capacitance of a coil using just > two resonance measurements, among other things; please take a look > at http://www.qsl.net/in3otd/programs.html . > Hope this helps, > > 73 de Claudio, IN3OTD > > > m0mgm@btopenworld.com wrote: > > > > Sometime ago in the summer details of a web page that calculated coil > > size and values was posted on this site. The page was interactive. I > > would appreciate any info on its web address. > > > > Regards > > > > Martin M0MGM > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13722 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 15:55:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 15:55:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 18619 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 15:56:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 15:56:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1696zZ-0007uf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 15:51:21 +0000 Received: from ns1.otenet.gr ([195.170.0.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1696zY-0007ua-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 15:51:20 +0000 Received: from 1 (myti530-a029.otenet.gr [212.205.251.157]) by ns1.otenet.gr (8.11.5/8.11.5) with SMTP id fASFoYW04471 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 17:50:34 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <000201c17824$55fd3d60$9dfbcdd4@1> From: "ALEX DELIGIANNIS" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: ICOM R-75 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 08:25:14 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Dear,
        I just bought a new IC R75 to replase an old FRG-100 and I'm looking for any modifications to improve the LF performance of the receiver.   Shematic diagram wasn't included with the manual.... It uses 10 DB or more attenuation below 1,6 MHZ.
Any help will be very useful to improve me LF instalation here.
Many thanks. Alex SV8QG
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12494 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 15:22:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 15:22:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 11919 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 15:22:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 15:22:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1696Ty-0007nh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 15:18:42 +0000 Received: from cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.174]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1696Tw-0007nb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 15:18:40 +0000 Received: from modem-47.apanonar.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.117.47] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 1696TC-0008DZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 15:17:54 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01c1781f$e28e9940$17a0883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001101c1780f$395e2bc0$e32f893e@g3aqc> <3C04F97A.CC7EA9AF@usa.net> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re. Spectran Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 15:17:06 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alberto ,we seem to have crossed wires ! hi I just posted a message to Vittorio asking for help. I got your message with a replacement exe: file but it didnt help,still no sound. What do you think. Laurie. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alberto di Bene" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 28, 2001 2:49 PM Subject: LF: Re: Re. Spectran > Laurie Mayhead wrote: > > > I have tried to ask for help but the reflector does not like this ! > > Thanks Peter for the explanation. > > So here goes again: > > I downloaded Spectran and tried to run the sound card set up > > program.Unfortunately this attempt resulted in the gain being reduced so > > much that I cannot now run Argo or any program which requires an external > > sound input. I seem to remember this problem from some time back but all my > > efforts to recover the situation have failed. So I am now quite "blind" and > > would > > appreciate any help with this problem. Thanks es 73s Laurie. > > Hello Laurie, > I sent you a message a couple of days ago on this subject. Your message > didn't make it trough the reflector, but you had copied me too. > Please tell me if you have received my reply, and the test version of Spectran. > If not, I will resend. > > 73 Alberto I2PHD > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28947 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 15:16:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 15:16:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 6720 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 15:16:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 15:16:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1696Fg-0007lC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 15:03:56 +0000 Received: from cmailenv4.svr.pol.co.uk ([213.218.77.56]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1696Ff-0007l6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 15:03:55 +0000 Received: from [62.21.134.9] (helo=w8k3f0) by cmailENV4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 1696Ex-0007qy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 15:03:11 +0000 Message-ID: <009a01c1781d$f13128c0$0986153e@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Wrong call sign Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 15:59:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Dear OM,
 
I apologise to James Moritz for calling him M0MBU instead of M0BMU.
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7570 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 14:57:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 14:57:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15998 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 14:56:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 14:56:58 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16964X-0007hE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:52:25 +0000 Received: from d06lmsgate-4.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16964V-0007h9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:52:24 +0000 Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by d06lmsgate-4.uk.ibm.COM (1.0.0) with ESMTP id OAA27672 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:39:02 GMT Received: from usa.net (ss3.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.68]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id fASEntS216056 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:50:00 GMT Message-ID: <3C04F97A.CC7EA9AF@usa.net> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 15:49:30 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Re. Spectran References: <001101c1780f$395e2bc0$e32f893e@g3aqc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Laurie Mayhead wrote: > I have tried to ask for help but the reflector does not like this ! > Thanks Peter for the explanation. > So here goes again: > I downloaded Spectran and tried to run the sound card set up > program.Unfortunately this attempt resulted in the gain being reduced so > much that I cannot now run Argo or any program which requires an external > sound input. I seem to remember this problem from some time back but all my > efforts to recover the situation have failed. So I am now quite "blind" and > would > appreciate any help with this problem. Thanks es 73s Laurie. Hello Laurie, I sent you a message a couple of days ago on this subject. Your message didn't make it trough the reflector, but you had copied me too. Please tell me if you have received my reply, and the test version of Spectran. If not, I will resend. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11744 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 14:21:41 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 14:21:41 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28788 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 14:22:00 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 14:22:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1695X5-0007br-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:17:51 +0000 Received: from tlvsca.vim.tlt.alcatel.it ([194.243.74.245]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1695X4-0007bm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 14:17:50 +0000 Received: from tlvk7v (tlvk7v.vim.tlt.alcatel.it [151.98.40.9]) by tlvsca.vim.tlt.alcatel.it (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA20672 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 15:14:45 +0100 (MET) Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 15:12:24 +0100 From: "Claudio Girardi" Subject: LF: Coil Calculations To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Mailer: Z-Mail Pro 6.2, NetManage Inc. [ZM62_16H] X-Priority: 3 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Martin, maybe it is not exactly the page you are looking for but on my pages, at http://www.qsl.net/in3otd/indcalc.html , you can find an interactive form for computing the inductance of a single-layer circular coil (I posted a mail about a month ago about this). There are also other pages, computing the inductance of a two-coil variometer and the distributed capacitance of a coil using just two resonance measurements, among other things; please take a look at http://www.qsl.net/in3otd/programs.html . Hope this helps, 73 de Claudio, IN3OTD m0mgm@btopenworld.com wrote: > > Sometime ago in the summer details of a web page that calculated coil > size and values was posted on this site. The page was interactive. I > would appreciate any info on its web address. > > Regards > > Martin M0MGM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23546 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 13:37:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 13:37:50 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24548 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 13:38:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 13:38:11 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1694r8-0007UK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:34:30 +0000 Received: from out2.prserv.net ([32.97.166.32] helo=prserv.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1694r7-0007UF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:34:30 +0000 Received: from ieee.org (slip-32-102-157-202.md.us.prserv.net[32.102.157.202]) by prserv.net (out2) with SMTP id <2001112813334220200edkkue>; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:33:43 +0000 Message-ID: <3C04E907.B4D92D2B@ieee.org> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 08:39:19 -0500 From: "Andre Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Virus warning References: <005e01c177ee$01467100$d95001d5@dave> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave Sergeant wrote: > A new virus W95/Badtrans.B@mm (see > http://www.f-prot.com/f-prot/virusinfo/badtrb.html), appears to be spreading fast. I > have just received a copy from I believe a reflector subscriber. Microsoft Outlook ... :-( André N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16857 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 13:22:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 13:22:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 13472 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 13:22:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 13:22:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1694cl-0007RI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:19:39 +0000 Received: from cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.177]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1694ca-0007RD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:19:28 +0000 Received: from modem-99.pearl-damsel.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.47.227] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 1694bn-0004pI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:18:40 +0000 Message-ID: <001101c1780f$395e2bc0$e32f893e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. Spectran Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:18:14 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have tried to ask for help but the reflector does not like this ! Thanks Peter for the explanation. So here goes again: I downloaded Spectran and tried to run the sound card set up program.Unfortunately this attempt resulted in the gain being reduced so much that I cannot now run Argo or any program which requires an external sound input. I seem to remember this problem from some time back but all my efforts to recover the situation have failed. So I am now quite "blind" and would appreciate any help with this problem. Thanks es 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25138 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 12:47:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 12:47:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16843 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 12:47:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 12:47:10 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16944z-0007KI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:44:45 +0000 Received: from d06lmsgate-4.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16944n-0007KC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:44:33 +0000 Received: from d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.147]) by d06lmsgate-4.uk.ibm.COM (1.0.0) with ESMTP id MAA38132 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:31:23 GMT Received: from usa.net (ss3.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.68]) by d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id fASCgoZ142890 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:42:53 GMT Message-ID: <3C04DB95.88B64AC3@usa.net> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 13:41:57 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Mailing List" Subject: LF: Quick-and-dirty notes on how to use Spectran Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Peter Bowyer wrote : > You need to remove the word 'help' from the beginning of your message > subject. Haaaa... that explains my three failed attempts... thanks Peter. So, here it comes my previous message : ---- I have been asked by some if the help file of Spectran were available or when it would be. While the true help file is not ready yet, waiting for Vittorio to complete it, I wrote down some quick-and-dirty notes to explain how to use the program. If you need it, it can be downloaded from : http://www.weaksignals.com/bin/specv1doc.zip When you expand the ZIP file, you obtain spectran.doc, a Word 2000 document (guaranteed virus-free :-) Only three pages, but maybe enough to get started. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19868 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 12:32:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 12:32:35 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 20167 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 12:32:24 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 12:32:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1693pV-0007H7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:28:45 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1693pT-0007H2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:28:43 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 1693ok-0006rf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:27:58 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1693nc-0001IO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:26:48 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011128113324.00a9f8c0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 12:25:41 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: VLF monitoring - 13.3kHz MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------010700040003060206030904" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010700040003060206030904 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear LF Group, I monitored VLF frequencies between 5 and 15kHz last night in an attempt to detect signals from the IMAGE satellite, but nothing was heard or seen that could have been it. The Alpha beacons were back on, (operators found some coins for the meter?) and clearly audible. However, this morning I had the computer on for other purposes at around 1000 this morning, and thought I would check to see if there was any difference between night and daytime reception on these frequencies. I was using Spectrum Lab's "software receiver" facility to convert the Alpha beacon just below 15kHz down to audio, when I heard a strong carrier tuning up on the frequency, followed by some minutes of tests and transmissions in some digital mode. I thought this might be an intermod or alias from higher frequencies at first, but was able to receive the same signal on my RA1792 with tuned loop - this revealed that the signal was actually on 13.3kHz, the "audio image" response of the Spectrum lab receiver as I had it configured. A small piece of the spectrogram is attached, showing the carrier and a burst of the modulation. The bandwidth shown is about 280Hz, and the separation between spectral lines is about 25Hz. The weaker trace is the alpha beacon. I have not seen a data transmission this low in frequency before, and the strength was not far short of that from GBR, so must have been fairly local. The modulation looks a little like what CFH was testing at one time last winter. Any ideas? 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BbnGFO1IYNUIE/vH8qRSir0G1PDLoAIbXM/dpOQ7/wC0v/KawuVPIYIOmh2ERxvDASFSN5mh Ksq0q1kGdKfyXR/hL/ymmQZiNaCUTUEOCItwYVZlZOnsIoppooaiSokxcFFFFVEgoooqRIe0 JeQPFQplPaMPIP8AEKZRC3VDvPtFawUqTB9iPwpKKwksQRFw/nOACFq+tHOdH+Iv/MaZRROv m/mPnFMIdzFxGdUetIDqCdaSisFaiXJeI0B3ooorMXH/2Q== --------------010700040003060206030904-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6918 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 11:23:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 11:23:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 4387 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 11:23:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 11:23:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1692Um-00070s-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:03:16 +0000 Received: from fortress.tele2.co.uk ([212.19.64.194] helo=mail.tele2.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1692Uk-00070n-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:03:15 +0000 Received: from martin (wireless-066-114.tele2.co.uk [212.19.66.114]) by mail.tele2.co.uk (Postfix) with SMTP id 5249A403B8 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:57:59 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <002f01c177fc$439e3430$3100a8c0@martin> From: "M0MGM" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Coil Calculations Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:03:08 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2479.0006 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Sometime ago in the summer  details of a web page that calculated coil size and values was posted on this site. The page was interactive.  I would appreciate any info on its web address.
 
Regards
 
Martin M0MGM
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17298 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 11:07:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 11:07:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 20471 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 11:07:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 11:07:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1692WC-00070z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:04:44 +0000 Received: from imailg1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.179]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1692WB-00070u-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:04:43 +0000 Received: from modem-69.aranel.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.119.69] helo=g3aqc) by imailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 1692VT-0004Bd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:04:00 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c177fc$6963d9e0$4577883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. Whats happening to my messages Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:02:12 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Same problem here Alberto ! See if this one works. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1016 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 10:37:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 10:37:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 23310 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 10:37:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 10:37:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16920J-0006tz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:31:47 +0000 Received: from cmailenv4.svr.pol.co.uk ([213.218.77.56]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16920F-0006tu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:31:44 +0000 Received: from [62.21.147.204] (helo=w8k3f0) by cmailENV4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 1691zY-0002ke-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:31:00 +0000 Message-ID: <000801c177f7$ea4e1de0$cc93153e@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: M0MBU's method of measuring Q Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 11:31:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Dear OM,
 
On second thought the simple method of measuring Q of a coil described by James Moritz can even be performed when the internal resistance of the signal generator is unknown. If you don't possess a signal generator you could even use your 136kHz or 73kHz transmitter, provided its output can be adjusted to a low value and the harmonic content of the output signal is low.
 
First connect the coil in series with a variable capacitor to the signal generator, which is tuned to 137kHz . Read the output voltage of the generator with a voltmeter or oscilloscope. Carefully tune the circuit for series resonance where the voltage reaches a minimum. Record that value. Now replace coil and capacitor by a low value variable resistor. Adjust the resistor until the voltage has the same value as the one recorded before. Next measure the value of the variable resistor, for instance with a digital multimeter. The value so found is equal to the series resistance Rs of the coil.
 
The inductance of the coil must be known. If not it must be measured. You could also measure the value of the variable capacitor that resonated the coil on 137kHz. Calculate the reactance of the coil: XL = 2 * pi * f * L (or of the capacitor: XC = 1/(2 * pi * f * C) with f = 137kHz. 
 
Now find Q = XL/Rs or XC/Rs.
 
This substitution method has another advantage, apart from the fact there is no need to know the internal resistance of the generator. The voltmeter or oscilloscope is only used as an indicator to set the voltage with the variable resistor to the same value as the one with the coil + capacitor at resonance. So there is no need for calibration, good linearity or a high resistance. Even a simple diode, followed by a multimeter could do the job, provided the voltages to be indicated are sufficiently large to provide a reliable indication using that simple arrangement.      
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25025 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 09:33:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 09:33:52 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1561 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 09:34:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 09:34:01 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169106-0006gM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:27:30 +0000 Received: from d06lmsgate-4.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 169105-0006g1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:27:29 +0000 Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com ([9.166.84.148]) by d06lmsgate-4.uk.ibm.COM (1.0.0) with ESMTP id JAA11098 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:09:34 GMT Received: from usa.net (ss3.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.68]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id fAS9KkS187046 for ; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:20:47 GMT Message-ID: <3C04AC56.196D5D8A@usa.net> Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:20:22 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Mailing List" Subject: LF: What's happening to my messages ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In the past three days I have sent twice a message to this reflector regarding the help file of Spectran, but I haven't seen it passing through. What's happening with the reflector ? Anybody other noticed problems ? Or is it just my mail server ? Let's see if this message makes it. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10522 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 09:27:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 09:27:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 16790 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 09:28:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 09:28:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1690v1-0006ek-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:22:15 +0000 Received: from cmailenv4.svr.pol.co.uk ([213.218.77.56]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1690v0-0006ef-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:22:14 +0000 Received: from [62.21.146.153] (helo=w8k3f0) by cmailENV4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 1690uI-00052Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:21:31 +0000 Message-ID: <008801c177ee$3561acc0$8c94153e@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011121102933.00a7b730@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <001401c176b3$3c5f8100$b6a1153e@w8k3f0> <002001c17798$650befe0$8ae086d4@ericadodd> Subject: Re: LF: Measuring Q Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 10:22:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear OM, John, G3LDO wrote: > Your three Q measurements indicate that your measurement techniques are > sound - unlike mine! > It occurs to me that I could use my HP vector impedance meter to measure Q > using the series resonant method. Unfortunately it only goes down to 500kHz > so cannot measure Q at the operating frequency. If I did the measurement at > a higher frequency would the reactance of the series resonating capacitor be > significant and give a higher value of perceived resistance? > I could also use my 3M bridge (page 86 of LF book), which can measure R at > the operating frequency (136kHz and 73kHz). The resonance curve could then > be plotted using the S/W shown on Fig 6.12. > More experimenting to be done when the weather gets dryer. The charm of the M0MBU method is that the only critical part is a signal generator with a well defined internal resistance; the actual value of that resistance could be 50, 75 or whatever ohms, as long as it is known. If you are not sure about the source resistance you could insert a resistive pad of, say, 20dB or so to obtain a well defined value. Another nice feature of Jim's method is that loading of the circuit by the voltmeter hardly plays a role as it is in parallel with some tens of ohms at the most. Q is rather dependent on frequency so a measurement at a frequency different from 137kHz may not be meaningful. 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5386 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 09:25:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 09:25:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 24982 invoked from network); 28 Nov 2001 09:26:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Nov 2001 09:26:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1690rq-0006e9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:18:58 +0000 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1690rp-0006e4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:18:57 +0000 Received: from [62.7.81.155] (helo=dave) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 1690qQ-0003OX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:17:31 +0000 Message-ID: <005e01c177ee$01467100$d95001d5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Virus warning Date: Wed, 28 Nov 2001 09:19:03 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: A new virus W95/Badtrans.B@mm (see http://www.f-prot.com/f-prot/virusinfo/badtrb.html), appears to be spreading fast. I have just received a copy from I believe a reflector subscriber. Point to note is that it was only detected last Saturday, and updated signature files came out on Sunday - AFTER several of my colleagues had already received (and spread) copies. It looks like a losing battle against these virus people. Also this virus will run even if you open the mail or preview it in the preview pane - see http://www.microsoft.com/technet/security/bulletin/MS01-020.asp for a patch for IE5. Take care. Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9900 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 23:19:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 23:19:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23506 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 23:19:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 23:19:39 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168rUQ-0005NB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 23:18:10 +0000 Received: from europa.your-site.com ([140.186.45.14]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168rUP-0005N6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 23:18:09 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.181.229]) by europa.your-site.com ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 18:17:25 -0500 Message-ID: <3C041F0C.77CAC66E@att.net> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 18:17:32 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" Organization: JDM Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "RSGB LF" Subject: LF: 73.250 kHz Rugby Tonight Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: LF conditions must have been excellent the night I heard the Rugby signal so well. I haven't had good audiable copy since. Tonight there is a lot of QRN and I don't hear Rugby at all but Spectran pickes it out very well. A screen shot can be seen at: http://www.qsl.net/w4dex/73250_27Nov01.jpg Dexter From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21046 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 23:08:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 23:08:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 13416 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 23:08:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 23:08:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168rIh-0005JI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 23:06:03 +0000 Received: from tvout.mail.uk.easynet.net ([194.6.96.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168rIe-0005J9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 23:06:01 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-18-138.easynet.co.uk [212.134.224.138]) by tvout.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5864263452 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 23:05:17 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <002101c17798$67ab52e0$8ae086d4@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000901c176df$d74fcb80$0200a8c0@charter.net> <000d01c176e8$24500a00$0300a8c0@charter.net> Subject: LF: Re: 73 kHz Signal Measurements Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 23:07:23 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi John > Of course, there's a lot to be gained by narrowing the BW, so I ran ARGO at > 60 sec/dot, and had to crank in another 13 dB to kill HBG. There's a > considerable time lag in making such measurements, so fading sets some > limits on accuracy. But I did end up barely being able to see the signal > at -77 dB. Interesting, eh? Very interesting indeed. Your method is quite a standard method of making level measurements if the meter on the receiver is not accurate and I can see no fault in it. > > One possible objection to the method is that the absolute value of the > attenuation is probably in error due to the output impedance of the preamp > and the input impedance of the receiver not being 50 ohms. While that's > true, at least the changes in attenuation needed to kill the signal under > various band conditions would still be valid. This will enable me to track > things on a day-to-day basis. > You need some S/W that can record signal level ( I think some has already been suggested) so that it can be left unattended once the attenuation level had been established. I have heard that CFH may also be on, or near, 73.3kHz. Are you able to confirm that it is really Rugby that you are hearing? I guess that with your directional loop antenna you will have that question already resolved. Once you have some data it can be compared with Alan's propagation info to see if anything of interest emerges. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28644 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 23:08:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 23:08:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 12960 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 23:08:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 23:08:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168rIh-0005JJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 23:06:03 +0000 Received: from tvout.mail.uk.easynet.net ([194.6.96.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168rIf-0005J8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 23:06:01 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-18-138.easynet.co.uk [212.134.224.138]) by tvout.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 4A99A634BC for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 23:05:12 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <002001c17798$650befe0$8ae086d4@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011121102933.00a7b730@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <001401c176b3$3c5f8100$b6a1153e@w8k3f0> Subject: Re: LF: Measuring Q Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 22:49:02 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Dick, > I used this method and two other ones to measure the Q of my loading coil. > The coil can be seen on page 62 and on the cover of the LF Handbook (the > caption of Fig. 4.17 at page 62 describes the coil on the cover). > > With a 47nF 2% capacitor in parallel the coil resonates at 11.56kHz. From > this follows an inductance of 4033 microhenry (the large value of the > capacitor eliminates the influence of the unknown self-capacitance of the > coil). At 137kHz the inductive reactance of the coil is 3470 ohms. > > Using Jim's method I found a resistance of 9.17 ohms for the coil. This > yields a Q of 3470/9.11 = 378. > > I also measured the resistance at 137kHz of the series resonant circuit, > consisting of coil and vacuum capacitor, using an admittance bridge. I > found the resistance to be 9.11 ohms. From this follows a Q of 381. > > I finally made a parallel resonant circuit at 137kHz, again using the vacuum > capacitor. The bandwidth between the -3dB frequencies was 340Hz. This yields > a Q of 137000/340 = 403. To avoid damping of the circuit by the tracking > generator and selective voltmeter I excited the coil with a single turn > loop, located 36cm below the bottom end of the coil. I connected a 1:10 > oscilloscope probe to the voltmeter and clipped it on the insulation of the > top end of the coil. Your three Q measurements indicate that your measurement techniques are sound - unlike mine! It occurs to me that I could use my HP vector impedance meter to measure Q using the series resonant method. Unfortunately it only goes down to 500kHz so cannot measure Q at the operating frequency. If I did the measurement at a higher frequency would the reactance of the series resonating capacitor be significant and give a higher value of perceived resistance? I could also use my 3M bridge (page 86 of LF book), which can measure R at the operating frequency (136kHz and 73kHz). The resonance curve could then be plotted using the S/W shown on Fig 6.12. More experimenting to be done when the weather gets dryer. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9209 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 21:50:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 21:50:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 20386 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 21:50:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 21:50:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168q4n-00055P-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 21:47:37 +0000 Received: from tomts16.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.4] helo=tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168q4Y-00055K-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 21:47:27 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.208.193.183]) by tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20011127214606.XRFI11528.tomts16-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 16:46:06 -0500 Message-ID: <011d01c1778c$de51bcb0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011004082609.00a1f080@mail.pncl.co.uk> <002701c17a2a$03db3fc0$926e36d2@rvernall> <003801c175bb$9e0275a0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> <009a01c17646$3b769520$4db51bca@xtr743187> Subject: LF: ZL6QH tests, Gray Line Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 16:45:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Bob: > Yes, I likely can have a signal on air by 0700 UTC. It is well before local > sunset at ZL6QH, however, I'll take any DX that comes ... and my setup here shows that you enter gray line at 0710 utc tonight, three minutes later on Friday. If we have a peak at grayline onset, which I often see here on DCF39, then maybe we have a chance of seeing you. The best thing is I often see what I would like to call "two carriers" from DCF39, about .05 Hz or less apart, the lower one eventually fades down and the upper one gets stronger. When I see both signals simultaneously I know I will have a good evening of DCF39 signals when I only see the upper one I will have an average evening. I retuned everything here today, so hope you have a chance to hear me as well. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10541 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 21:41:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 21:41:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 19614 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 21:41:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 21:41:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168pvX-00053E-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 21:38:03 +0000 Received: from tomts7.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.40] helo=tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168pvW-000536-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 21:38:02 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.208.193.183]) by tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20011127213648.FVSZ9080.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 16:36:48 -0500 Message-ID: <011901c1778b$91a0f990$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011004082609.00a1f080@mail.pncl.co.uk> <002701c17a2a$03db3fc0$926e36d2@rvernall> <003801c175bb$9e0275a0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> <009a01c17646$3b769520$4db51bca@xtr743187> Subject: LF: VA3LK txing 137.789374 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 16:36:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings All on LF In preparation for this coming weekend tests with ZL I am txing 24hrs with visual CW, 180 seconds dashes and 90 seconds dits. Antenna now has additonal 30k ft of wire radials to the SW and W. Reports are very welcome. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17327 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 20:06:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 20:06:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 23565 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 20:05:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 20:05:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168oO1-0004mQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 19:59:21 +0000 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168oO0-0004mL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 19:59:20 +0000 Received: from rgcomms.demon.co.uk ([193.237.77.63] helo=grahamspent) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 168oNJ-000N6C-0K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 19:58:37 +0000 From: "Graham Phillips" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group" Subject: LF: LORAN Receiver. Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 19:57:25 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all L.F. ers, I wonder if anyone on the reflector can steer me towards some technical information on a LORAN Receiver. It is manufactured by Impulse Electronics ( U.S.A. ) with the model number 2830. A good friend is attempting to make this thing operate ... he can see that the receiver is decoding 9 pulses, but just keeps searching. Any help or tips would be much appreciated. I have spent a lot of effort putting another 15 meters of 22 m.m. copper pipe vertically into the ground, so I hope to be back on 136 and 73 kHz very soon with an improved signal (maybe)! Many Thanks, 73 de Graham B. Phillips. G3XTZ. g3xtz@rgcomms.demon.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18830 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 18:16:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 18:16:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3605 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 18:16:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 18:16:18 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168mgg-0004XC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 18:10:30 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168mge-0004X7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 18:10:29 +0000 Received: from ldsas04-68-119-122.cw-visp.com ([212.137.119.122] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 168mW8-0005d0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 17:59:37 +0000 Message-ID: <3C03D68E.8E98E1FA@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 18:08:14 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Critisism References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C647@PDW-MAIL-R1> <5.0.2.1.2.20011127095926.00a48500@mail.pncl.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Walter Blanchard wrote: > Mal, > > A lot of us would welcome your "critisism" far more if you stuck to > technicalities and cut out the cheap sniping at anyone who doesn't see > things your way. > > Walter G3JKV Walter Om Its just that I have never met a G3J over the past 40 plus years that cannot send/receive normal hand sent cw. It is not sniping its FACT. I am sure there is a good reason for it. Your QRS signal this afternoon was 25 db above the noise floor, not sure whether you were QRP or QRO. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16635 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 18:00:04 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 18:00:04 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6968 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 18:00:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 18:00:23 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168mQd-0004Tf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 17:53:55 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168mQc-0004Ta-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 17:53:54 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 168mPv-00010o-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 17:53:11 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 168mOo-0006vk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 17:52:02 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011127170009.00aacf50@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 17:52:01 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: Re: IMAGE Satellite Experiment / 73kHz beacon In-reply-to: <1e.1eeee56c.2935182f@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Wolf, LF Group, I did listen for the IMAGE satellite on 24th, but although I was able to get rid of most mains QRM above 6kHz, also heard nothing, apart from very loud QRN and related peculiar noises. I could not see or hear the Alpha beacons, which had been clearly audible the previous day, so not sure if just very noisy conditions, or these off the air too. On the basis that 73kHz propagation seems to be in the doldrums at the moment, I will not run the beacon tonight, and wait until the 73.25kHz Rugby signal has picked up again on the other side of the pond. Re: monitoring the signal levels around 73k - I am something of a fan of DL4YHF's Spectrum Lab - the spectrum analyser display gives you a direct measure in dB of the signal ampltude. If you set up the colour scale for the waterfall display to something that you like, varying the "brightness" and "contrast" sliders vary the display from an Argo-like high contrast good for reading QRSS to a low contast, multi coloured display that is better for looking at relative signal levels. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6758 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 16:31:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 16:31:50 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4621 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 16:32:00 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 16:32:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168l2l-0004Ge-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 16:25:11 +0000 Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.98]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168l2k-0004GZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 16:25:10 +0000 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.1e.1eeee56c (24896) for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 11:24:18 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <1e.1eeee56c.2935182f@aol.com> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 11:24:15 EST Subject: Re: Re: LF: IMAGE Satellite Experiment IMAGE Satellite Experiment To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 10504 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi All,
just a quick reminder of the VLF-transmitting satellite transmitting on 5,7,9,11,13 and 15 kHz, as John 'CNN wrote.

This evening (Nov 27), the sat should be at 50.55°N, 13.43°E on 19:34 (guess the latter is UTC).

Has anyone heard this bird on its last EU crossing with VLF active on Nov 24 ?

I was out of luck but that is no wonder with all the TV's and SMPSU's around.

Kind regards,
 Wolf DL4YHF
 52°08' North,  8°26' East. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Received: (qmail 29408 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 16:15:55 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 16:15:55 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23752 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 16:16:14 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 16:16:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168kmi-0004Dl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 16:08:36 +0000 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.91]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168kmf-0004Dg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 16:08:33 +0000 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 168klx-0001AM-0X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 16:07:49 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 16:06:50 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: LF: 136 KHz Beacon MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 3.05 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To whoever is operating the on/off beacon on about 135.9 KHz this afternoon, you are strength 5 in Devon. Please send your XYL via the bureau. 73! -- Tom Boucher G3OLB 'Hedgerows' Sheldon Honiton Devon EX14 4QS NGR ST119 080 Loc. IO80iu From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7417 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 11:27:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 11:27:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23579 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 11:27:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 11:27:57 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168gMi-0003Vc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 11:25:28 +0000 Received: from e21.nc.us.ibm.com ([32.97.136.227]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168gMh-0003VX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 11:25:27 +0000 Received: from southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.208]) by e21.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA12500 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 05:21:36 -0600 Received: from usa.net (ss2.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.67]) by southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.01) with ESMTP id fARBOEB75932 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 06:24:40 -0500 Message-ID: <3C0377A8.A3F7BA48@usa.net> Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 12:23:20 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Re: QRSS References: <000901c176df$d74fcb80$0200a8c0@charter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John Andrews wrote: > [...] > And in the spirit of humble confession, I later realized that I had been > seeing it on my Argo screen courtesy of Alberto di Bene. Sort of like > subliminal advertising, I guess. > > It is now Alberto's turn to either claim authorship or make his own > confession. Having unburdened myself, I feel positively at peace with the > world. > [...] Well, to be correct to the last bit, I think to have been the first to use it, but not in Argo, rather in the latest version of Spectran. Under the main menu choice 'Mode', you can load a few preset modes, i.e. QRSS3, QRSS10, etc. I chose this naming convention to save space on the menu... 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17731 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 10:07:28 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 10:07:28 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28556 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 10:07:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 10:07:48 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168f3w-0003K5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:02:00 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168f3v-0003K0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:01:59 +0000 Received: from blanch.pncl.co.uk (76.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.76]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id fARA1Hf01936 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:01:18 GMT Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011127095926.00a48500@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:01:38 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: Critisism In-reply-to: <3C02867F.72A8C996@netscapeonline.co.uk> References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C647@PDW-MAIL-R1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mal, A lot of us would welcome your "critisism" far more if you stuck to technicalities and cut out the cheap sniping at anyone who doesn't see things your way. Walter G3JKV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16809 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 09:22:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 09:22:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 19868 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 09:22:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 09:22:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168eKC-0003BT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:14:44 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168eKB-0003BO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:14:43 +0000 Received: from blanch.pncl.co.uk (224.235.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.235.224]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id fAR9DxS21327 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:13:59 GMT Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011127091120.00a58cd0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:14:16 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: Re: LF: Re: 133.24 and 146.40 kHz In-reply-to: <000501c176ae$155ba840$618ec9c8@P800> References: <007601c16bb9$535fe5c0$69c5ecd5@oemcomputer> <004e01c16c8d$8276d920$a08fc9c8@P800> <002f01c16d67$4654b4a0$28c5ecd5@oemcomputer> <007a01c1715b$23a89d20$678fc9c8@P800> <002d01c171b2$84c365c0$3abd46c3@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 03:20 26/11/01 Monday -0200, you wrote: >Hi Trond ... > >Besides 132.24 and 146.40 kHz signals, now I´m shure that there´s TWO >DATATRAK signals on 146.4KHz. One is very strong here (now peaking 15dBuV) >and the other is weak. Different timings btw. > >Tomorrow I´ll RDF them, at least to have a bearing + ambiguity. > >73 >Marcus, PY3CRX/PY2PLL >GG66rf >http://py.qsl.br >Active from "DC" to 24GHz The Siemens Datatrak signals you're finding are from transmitters in Argentina (Buenos Aires). Walter G3JKV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7643 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 09:15:50 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 09:15:50 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 12826 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 09:15:57 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 09:15:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168eBN-0003AC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:05:37 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168eBM-0003A7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:05:36 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id fAR94qGR068338 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:04:53 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20011127100224.38cf4246@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 10:02:24 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: KPH In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Just picked this up from another reflector, 73, Rik ON7YD >Subject: HISTORIC COAST RADIO STATION WILL CELEBRATE MARCONI EVENT > >KPH and K6KPH Return to the Air! > > >Stations KPH and K6KPH will be on the air on 12 December 2001 >to help celebrate the 100th anniversary of the first wireless signal to >cross the Atlantic, received by Marconi on 12 December 1901 at >St. John's Newfoundland. > >Both stations will use the original transmitters, receivers and >antennas of famous ex-RCA coast station KPH. The transmitters >are located at the transmitting station founded by the American >Marconi Co. in 1913 at Bolinas, CA. The receivers and operators >will be at the KPH receiving station about 20 miles north at Pt. >Reyes, CA. > >KPH will be active on commercial frequencies 500 and 425kc with >most activity taking place on 500kc (600m). Power output will be >4.3kW. The antenna is a Marconi T. These frequencies have been >made available through the generous cooperation of Globe >Wireless, current holders of the KPH license. > >K6KPH will be active on amateur frequencies 3545, 7050 and >14050kc. Power output will be 1.5kW. Antennas will be double >extended Zepps on 3.5 and 7Mc, H over 2 on 14Mc. > >K6KPH will begin operations at 1700Z (0900PST). > >KPH will begin operations at 0000Z (1700PST) 13 December >2001Z > >Commercial practices and procedures will be used on all >frequencies to give amateurs the experience of working a real >coast station. Traffic lists will be sent and messages for stations >that have worked us in the past and sent reception reports will be >awaiting in the message rack. All operators will be ex-commercial >ops from KPH, KFS and other coast stations. > >Amateurs and shortwave listeners are invited to contact or monitor >KPH and K6KPH. Maritime stations may call KPH on 500kc. > >KPH reception reports may be sent to: > >Tom Horsfall >1862 Tulare Ave. >Richmond, CA 94805, USA > >K6KPH reception reports may be sent to: > >Dick Dillman >435 Utah St., No. 4 >San Francisco, CA 94110, USA > >KPH and K6KPH are operated by the Maritime Radio Historical >Society in cooperation with the Point Reyes National Seashore, >part of the US National Park Service. > >Further information may be found on the Maritime Radio Historical >Society Web site at http://www.radiomarine.org or by contacting >Dick Dillman +1 415-255-9221 x 317 or Tom Horsfall +1 510-237- >9535. > > > Dick Dillman, W6AWO > Member of the Maritime Radio Historical Society > http://www.radiomarine.org > Collector of Heavy Metal: > Harleys, Willys and Radios over 100lbs. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20945 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 08:54:53 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 08:54:53 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 12624 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 08:54:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 08:54:43 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168dtX-00036i-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 08:47:11 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168dtU-00036d-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 08:47:08 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id fAR8kOGR083270 for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:46:25 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20011127094356.2c770e7c@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 09:43:56 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: g4ftc In-reply-to: <3C0288C0.14D6154D@netscapeonline.co.uk> References: <01c175e2$5340d120$LocalHost@drawing> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: David Sparvell wrote: > I've now got almost a kilometre of 2.5mm^2 wire in my ground system, but my > system losses (including the loading coil) are still well over 100 ohms and > consequently I've having difficulties in getting the antenna current up to > much over a couple of amps. Hello David, On 136kHz the loss resistance you encounter is often much more than just groundloss. Any obstacles (trees, buildings etc...) that are relatively close to the antenna will contribute and increase the loss. I got stuck with a loss that varies from 120 Ohm in winter to 150 Ohm in summer, because of the many trees surrounding my antenna. Improving the ground system wasn't any help, doubling the radial system made the loss drop no more than a few Ohm. I'm running 450W and never got more than 2 amp through the system (typicaly 1.9A in winter, and 1.7A in summer). 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1803 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 02:35:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 02:35:50 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 13305 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 02:35:59 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 02:35:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168Y1u-0002Sb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 02:31:26 +0000 Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.104]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168Y1t-0002SW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 02:31:25 +0000 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.d1.ff21805 (2615) for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:30:36 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:30:35 EST Subject: Re: LF: DISTANCE 136 KHZ To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 10505 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit In a message dated 11/26/01 2:29:42 PM GMT Standard Time, rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be writes:


From the MARL (Malta Amateur Radio League) site :
"Malta implements CEPT Recommendation TR 61-01 and no separate license is
needed if you have joined CEPT"
see http://a108.adsl.nextgen.net.mt/marl/info/licence.htm



Hello Rik.

Thank you for the link.

Interesting.
I've never heard anyone using the CEPT agreed identification of (e.g.) 9H/G0MRF.
Up to now locals had 9H1 while visitors were issued 9H3.
It may be possible that both systems are running in parallel but it seems unlikely. Or, perhaps no-one in government told the officials at the "wireless office"

There are strict customs restrictions on some amateur radio receivers but these are essentially a limitation on wideband VHF/UHF receive to prevent the monitoring of military / police communication.

I'll e-mail the malta club and try to clarify the 136k situation. There are certainly some good LF sites available.

73

David From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22452 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 02:12:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 02:12:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 29509 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 02:12:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 02:12:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168Xeg-0002PP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 02:07:26 +0000 Received: from dc-mx01.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.11] helo=dc-mx01.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168Xef-0002PK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 02:07:25 +0000 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johncellar) by dc-mx01.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 47335708 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:14:12 -0500 Message-ID: <000d01c176e8$24500a00$0300a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000901c176df$d74fcb80$0200a8c0@charter.net> Subject: LF: 73 kHz Signal Measurements Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:06:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I started pondering ways to make useful measurements of 70-75 kHz commercial signals coming from across the pond. My receiver has a useless S-meter, so we'll skip that approach. Here's one possibility with a surprising result: The following was done between 0130 and 0200 tonight. My loop preamp is not at the antenna, but rather in the shack. I put a variable 50 ohm attenuator between the output of the preamp and my receiver. Tuning to 75.0 kHz, I heard what I assume to be HBG. I started ARGO, with the 3 sec/dot screen (basically because I want instant results). I found that it took 65 dB of attenuation to remove the HBG line from the screen. Dropping down to 73.30 kHz, it took 60 dB of attenuation to kill the rather broad line from the FSK signal. Considering that the Rugby station's power is spread over 100 Hz (though concentrated at 73.2 and 73.3 from the look of it), that seems reasonable. In any case, that's a lot of attenuation. Of course, there's a lot to be gained by narrowing the BW, so I ran ARGO at 60 sec/dot, and had to crank in another 13 dB to kill HBG. There's a considerable time lag in making such measurements, so fading sets some limits on accuracy. But I did end up barely being able to see the signal at -77 dB. Interesting, eh? One possible objection to the method is that the absolute value of the attenuation is probably in error due to the output impedance of the preamp and the input impedance of the receiver not being 50 ohms. While that's true, at least the changes in attenuation needed to kill the signal under various band conditions would still be valid. This will enable me to track things on a day-to-day basis. Thoughts and criticisms would be appreciated. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1908 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 01:08:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 01:08:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 7554 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 01:08:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 01:08:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168Wez-0002Hw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 01:03:41 +0000 Received: from dc-mx01.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.11] helo=dc-mx01.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168Wey-0002Hr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 01:03:40 +0000 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johnupstairs) by dc-mx01.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 47311652 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:10:23 -0500 Message-ID: <000901c176df$d74fcb80$0200a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: Re: LF: Re: QRSS Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:07:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Johan, John, et al.: > Hi, Johan. Just for sake of historical accuracy, it was John Andrews, W1TAG, > who suggested it on 13 November. Les and I can only take credit for > recognizing a good idea and "borrowing" it for our LowFER beacon listings > within less than 4 hours of John's posting. (grin) And in the spirit of humble confession, I later realized that I had been seeing it on my Argo screen courtesy of Alberto di Bene. Sort of like subliminal advertising, I guess. It is now Alberto's turn to either claim authorship or make his own confession. Having unburdened myself, I feel positively at peace with the world. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23613 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 00:30:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 00:30:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29556 invoked from network); 27 Nov 2001 00:30:29 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Nov 2001 00:30:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168W0W-0002Aq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 00:21:52 +0000 Received: from imo-d10.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.42]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168W0V-0002Al-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 00:21:51 +0000 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.cc.2542387 (1322) for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:20:31 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:20:31 EST Subject: Re: LF: Re: QRSS To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 11/26/01 3:16:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, sm6lkm.jbeab@swipnet.se writes: >> > Is QRSS10 a way of saying QRSS with 10s dots? > Yes. It is not my idea. I got it from the Lowfer mail reflector a week or two ago. I think Les Rayburn, N1LF, "invented" it but I am not sure. > Hi, Johan. Just for sake of historical accuracy, it was John Andrews, W1TAG, who suggested it on 13 November. Les and I can only take credit for recognizing a good idea and "borrowing" it for our LowFER beacon listings within less than 4 hours of John's posting. (grin) 73, John Davis From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3755 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 22:14:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 22:14:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 12843 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 22:14:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 22:14:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168Txl-0001n1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 22:10:53 +0000 Received: from imailg2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.180]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168Txk-0001mw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 22:10:52 +0000 Received: from modem-39.durin.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.162.39] helo=g3aqc) by imailg2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 168Tx0-00041H-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 22:10:07 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c176c7$21a02f40$27a2883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re Grounded Loops Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 22:09:01 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Peter, Oh dear ! looks like I selected the wrong file to attach. I will have another go when I have sorted things out. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15263 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 21:57:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 21:57:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 7215 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 21:57:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 21:57:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168ThR-0001h2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:54:01 +0000 Received: from imailg3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.181]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168ThQ-0001gx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:54:00 +0000 Received: from modem-119.dimrill.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.155.119] helo=g3aqc) by imailg3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 168Tgj-0004SK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:53:18 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c176c4$c8294520$779b883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 73 kHz Beacon Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:50:54 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: No transmission from here tonight.Will advise when cdx better. 73s Laurie From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11979 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 21:18:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 21:18:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 2148 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 21:18:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 21:18:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168T38-0001av-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:12:22 +0000 Received: from mail.ifx.com.br ([200.201.133.66] helo=mail01.ifx.com.br) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168T36-0001aq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:12:21 +0000 Received: (qmail 834 invoked by uid 505); 26 Nov 2001 21:10:39 -0000 Received: from py2pll@py.qsl.br by mail01.ifx.com.br with qmail-scanner-0.96 (. Clean. Processed in 0.502538 secs); 26 Nov 2001 21:10:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO P800) (200.201.143.78) by mail01.ifx.com.br with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 21:10:38 -0000 Message-ID: <011d01c176be$de2c6600$618ec9c8@P800> From: "PY3CRX PY2PLL" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <007601c16bb9$535fe5c0$69c5ecd5@oemcomputer> <004e01c16c8d$8276d920$a08fc9c8@P800> <002f01c16d67$4654b4a0$28c5ecd5@oemcomputer> <007a01c1715b$23a89d20$678fc9c8@P800> <002d01c171b2$84c365c0$3abd46c3@oemcomputer> <000501c176ae$155ba840$618ec9c8@P800> Subject: LF: Re: Re: 133.24 and 146.40 kHz Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:07:45 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Sorry for the BW ... wrong destination, should be addressed to Trond. 73 Marcus, PY3CRX/PY2PLL GG66rf http://py.qsl.br Active from "DC" to 24GHz From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22544 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 20:11:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 20:11:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 6465 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 20:11:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 20:11:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168S2V-0001Kb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:07:39 +0000 Received: from fep04.swip.net ([130.244.199.132] helo=fep04-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168S2U-0001KW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:07:38 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.11.166]) by fep04-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20011126200655.DPBT14033.fep04-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:06:55 +0100 Message-ID: <015001c176b5$eced0900$a60b97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C647@PDW-MAIL-R1> Subject: LF: Re: RE: 80m QRSS QRPppp QRT Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:32:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andy, > What was the frequency ? Somewhere in the vicinity of the 80 meter band, probably.... It is drifting a few Hz around 3593.55 kHz. A mixer/BPF/PA is on the workbench. It will eventually become GPS disciplined. > QRSS would be an interesting way for those of us who don't and won't use CW > to cross the Atlantic on topband. No comments from Scarborough please ! Didn't you see the screenshot of a mysterious signal that M0BMU posted a few days ago? 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21530 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 20:11:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 20:11:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 27328 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 20:11:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 20:11:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168S2c-0001Kp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:07:46 +0000 Received: from fep04.swip.net ([130.244.199.132] helo=fep04-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168S2Y-0001Kk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:07:42 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.11.166]) by fep04-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20011126200659.DPCT14033.fep04-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:06:59 +0100 Message-ID: <015201c176b5$ef50e9a0$a60b97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011126113539.00aa88d8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Subject: LF: Re: 73k Beacon - SM6LKM on 80m Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:54:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Jim, > I also saw SM6LKM's 80m signals, about 5-6 Hz above the nominal frequency, thanks for the report! > the lines were quite fuzzy, whether due to propagation or TX I don't know. The TX is not fuzzy, just drifting slowly. What you saw was probably spectral spreading caused by the evil Mr. Doppler who is shaking the ionospheric mirrors. LF is more "phase stable". 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21387 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 20:11:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 20:11:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 5529 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 20:11:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 20:11:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168S2T-0001KU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:07:37 +0000 Received: from fep04.swip.net ([130.244.199.132] helo=fep04-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168S2S-0001KP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:07:36 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.11.166]) by fep04-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20011126200652.DPBI14033.fep04-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:06:52 +0100 Message-ID: <014f01c176b5$eb203840$a60b97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <003d01c17534$11193b60$eb0d97d4@oemcomputer> <1682Ng-1zLXA8C@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> <5.0.2.1.2.20011125225307.00a2bb90@mail.pncl.co.uk> <5.0.2.1.2.20011126094422.00a46b50@mail.pncl.co.uk> Subject: Re: LF: 80m QRSS QRPppp QRT Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:23:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Walter, > Interesting! Is that RADIATED power or DC input? It is output power. The beacon TX feeds 1mW into the coax. The output voltage from the signal generator is 1Vp-p and there is a -4dB attenuator between the generator and the antenna feedline. The antenna is a dipole at about 8m height with approx. 20m RG58 feedline. The antenna appears to be well matched at this frequency, close to 50+j0 ohms at the TX end of the coax. The actual radiated power is less than 1mW due to the well known "garden loss" (although I doubt that this beacon will heat the soil enough to make the carrots grow faster and bigger :-) > My 0.5 mW (radiated) on 136 kHz has only made 300 kms so far. > (1W RF into antenna coil) The atmospheric noise level is MUCH worse on 136kHz. 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16232 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 20:11:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 20:11:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 5820 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 20:11:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 20:11:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168S2d-0001Kw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:07:47 +0000 Received: from fep04.swip.net ([130.244.199.132] helo=fep04-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168S2c-0001Kr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:07:47 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.11.166]) by fep04-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20011126200704.DPDT14033.fep04-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:07:04 +0100 Message-ID: <015301c176b5$f1ddfd20$a60b97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C64A@PDW-MAIL-R1> Subject: LF: Re: RE: 73k Beacon - SM6LKM on 80m Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:02:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G4JNT wrote: > There is likely to be several Hz of Doppler shift on that frequency at night > time. Right. It is interesting to look at the carriers from various broadcasting powerhouses on HF. Sometimes they spread out 10-20Hz or so, sometimes the same stations produce a thin line on the spectrogram. Longer paths seems to produce wider traces, as expected. It all depends on the mood of Mr. Doppler who seems to depend on the mood of the Sun. 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23503 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 20:11:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 20:11:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 5856 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 20:11:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 20:11:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168S2X-0001Ki-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:07:41 +0000 Received: from fep04.swip.net ([130.244.199.132] helo=fep04-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168S2W-0001Kd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:07:40 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.11.166]) by fep04-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20011126200657.DPCE14033.fep04-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:06:57 +0100 Message-ID: <015101c176b5$ee3392c0$a60b97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3C02320B.4818.6F2EC@localhost> Subject: LF: Re: QRSS Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:40:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike, > Is QRSS10 a way of saying QRSS with 10s dots? Yes. It is not my idea. I got it from the Lowfer mail reflector a week or two ago. I think Les Rayburn, N1LF, "invented" it but I am not sure. (I lost all my old email when "downgrading" to a new web browser a few days ago...) 73 de Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14487 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 19:53:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 19:53:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 1299 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 19:53:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 19:53:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168RjC-0001FJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:47:42 +0000 Received: from cmailenv4.svr.pol.co.uk ([213.218.77.56]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168RjB-0001FC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:47:41 +0000 Received: from [62.21.161.182] (helo=w8k3f0) by cmailENV4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 168RiS-0001ni-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:46:56 +0000 Message-ID: <001401c176b3$3c5f8100$b6a1153e@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011121102933.00a7b730@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Subject: Re: LF: Measuring Q Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 20:46:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To All from PA0SE James Moritz described in his e-mail of 21 November 2001 at 13.38 hrs. a method of measuring Q of a coil that was new to me. Jim wrote: > What you really want to know is the equivalent series resistance of the > coil. I usually do this as follows: Connect generator to meter and measure > ampliude V1. Then connect a series resonant circuit using the coil to be > tested in series with a suitable resonating capacitor across the generator > terminals, and tune for a null in meter reading, ie. series resonance, and > measure voltage V2. At resonance, the reactance of L and C cancel, and the > remaining Rseries forms a potential divider with the paralleled source > resistance of the generator (Rs) and load resistance (RL) of the meter. If > you know what Rs and RL are, you can calculate Rseries: > > Rseries = (RsRL/[Rs+RL])*1/([V1/V2]-1) I used this method and two other ones to measure the Q of my loading coil. The coil can be seen on page 62 and on the cover of the LF Handbook (the caption of Fig. 4.17 at page 62 describes the coil on the cover). With a 47nF 2% capacitor in parallel the coil resonates at 11.56kHz. From this follows an inductance of 4033 microhenry (the large value of the capacitor eliminates the influence of the unknown self-capacitance of the coil). At 137kHz the inductive reactance of the coil is 3470 ohms. Using Jim's method I found a resistance of 9.17 ohms for the coil. This yields a Q of 3470/9.11 = 378. I also measured the resistance at 137kHz of the series resonant circuit, consisting of coil and vacuum capacitor, using an admittance bridge. I found the resistance to be 9.11 ohms. From this follows a Q of 381. I finally made a parallel resonant circuit at 137kHz, again using the vacuum capacitor. The bandwidth between the -3dB frequencies was 340Hz. This yields a Q of 137000/340 = 403. To avoid damping of the circuit by the tracking generator and selective voltmeter I excited the coil with a single turn loop, located 36cm below the bottom end of the coil. I connected a 1:10 oscilloscope probe to the voltmeter and clipped it on the insulation of the top end of the coil. The Q values found of 378, 381 and 403 are within 4% of the average value of 387. This result is not too bad I think. 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5471 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 19:25:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 19:25:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 11276 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 19:25:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 19:25:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168RAw-00017I-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:12:18 +0000 Received: from mail.ifx.com.br ([200.201.133.66] helo=mail01.ifx.com.br) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168RAu-000172-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:12:16 +0000 Received: (qmail 29421 invoked by uid 505); 26 Nov 2001 19:10:30 -0000 Received: from py2pll@py.qsl.br by mail01.ifx.com.br with qmail-scanner-0.96 (. Clean. Processed in 0.344031 secs); 26 Nov 2001 19:10:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO P800) (200.201.142.97) by mail01.ifx.com.br with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 19:10:29 -0000 Message-ID: <000501c176ae$155ba840$618ec9c8@P800> From: "PY3CRX PY2PLL" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <007601c16bb9$535fe5c0$69c5ecd5@oemcomputer> <004e01c16c8d$8276d920$a08fc9c8@P800> <002f01c16d67$4654b4a0$28c5ecd5@oemcomputer> <007a01c1715b$23a89d20$678fc9c8@P800> <002d01c171b2$84c365c0$3abd46c3@oemcomputer> Subject: LF: Re: 133.24 and 146.40 kHz Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 03:20:24 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Trond ... Besides 132.24 and 146.40 kHz signals, now I´m shure that there´s TWO DATATRAK signals on 146.4KHz. One is very strong here (now peaking 15dBuV) and the other is weak. Different timings btw. Tomorrow I´ll RDF them, at least to have a bearing + ambiguity. 73 Marcus, PY3CRX/PY2PLL GG66rf http://py.qsl.br Active from "DC" to 24GHz From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24732 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 19:20:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 19:20:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 1243 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 19:20:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 19:20:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168RAw-00017G-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:12:18 +0000 Received: from mail.ifx.com.br ([200.201.133.66] helo=mail01.ifx.com.br) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168RAu-000173-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:12:16 +0000 Received: (qmail 29350 invoked by uid 505); 26 Nov 2001 19:10:29 -0000 Received: from py2pll@py.qsl.br by mail01.ifx.com.br with qmail-scanner-0.96 (. Clean. Processed in 0.586701 secs); 26 Nov 2001 19:10:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO P800) (200.201.142.97) by mail01.ifx.com.br with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 19:10:28 -0000 Message-ID: <000401c176ae$14aaa7c0$618ec9c8@P800> From: "PY3CRX PY2PLL" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4f.14ca23c4.293040de@aol.com> <007401c174d6$fc38f8a0$a3ca28c3@ericadodd> <001501c174ec$f212b260$0300a8c0@charter.net> <000201c1751b$6063bb00$3dce28c3@ericadodd> <3C000DE3.AED73455@att.net> <3C0011CB.3156569C@att.net> <001d01c175b1$0b29bb30$0400000a@parissn2> <3C01071D.34B4F3AC@att.net> Subject: Re: LF: RTTY on 73.3 kHz? Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 03:20:07 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Detected here (23°S/46°W) at 05:20UTC ... 73 Marcus, PY3CRX/PY2PLL GG66rf http://py.qsl.br Active from "DC" to 24GHz From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12298 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 18:55:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 18:55:05 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16385 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 18:55:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 18:55:23 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168QpX-000117-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:50:11 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168QpW-000112-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:50:11 +0000 Received: from ldsas09-73-124-152.cw-visp.com ([212.137.124.152] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 168Qf6-0005Z2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:39:24 +0000 Message-ID: <3C0288C0.14D6154D@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:24:00 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: g4ftc References: <01c175e2$5340d120$LocalHost@drawing> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: David Sparvell wrote: > QTH Camberley, Surrey. > > Thanks for the report - it looks like my efforts in putting down more > radials is paying dividends. > > I've now got almost a kilometre of 2.5mm^2 wire in my ground system, but my > system losses (including the loading coil) are still well over 100 ohms and > consequently I've having difficulties in getting the antenna current up to > much over a couple of amps. Hello David. You are the strongest signal that I have heard for a long time from the South with your 2 amps antenna current. Others with 4 amps plus are well down on your signal. Look out for smoke on the horizon. Lots of coils have gone up in flames before and no doubt many more will go again. Big coil fires and mosfet PA zapping is a persuit down South !!!! 73 de Mal/G3KEV > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12229 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 18:55:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 18:55:03 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16297 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 18:55:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 18:55:20 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168QpV-000110-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:50:09 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168QpV-00010v-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:50:09 +0000 Received: from ldsas09-73-124-152.cw-visp.com ([212.137.124.152] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 168Qez-0005Wm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:39:21 +0000 Message-ID: <3C02867F.72A8C996@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:14:23 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: 80m QRSS QRPppp QRT References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C647@PDW-MAIL-R1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Talbot Andrew wrote: > I saw nothing, but may have gone for too narrow a bandwidth on the > monitoring system - Argo in this case - and missed the signal. > What was the frequency ? > > QRSS would be an interesting way for those of us who don't and won't CAN'T a word that you have left out is more appropriate. Andy it is never too late to learn the code and listen to some slow morse transmissions to get you going. I have heard via the grape vine that you appreciate my constructive critisism!!!!!! G3KEV > use CW > to cross the Atlantic on topband. No comments from Scarborough please ! > > Andy G4JNT > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Johan Bodin [mailto:sm6lkm.jbeab@swipnet.se] > > Sent: 2001-11-26 09:18 > > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > Subject: LF: 80m QRSS QRPppp QRT > > > > > > The beacon went off the air "for maintenance" this morning at > > 0810 UTC. > > > > Thanks to DJ8WX, G3JKV and DL4YHF for the encouraging reports! > > > > G3JKV in IO91UF holds the record, 1120km/mW or 700000 miles/watt, hi > > > > 73 > > Johan SM6LKM > > > > > > > > > > -- > The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence > is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). > For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, > or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is > prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11526 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 18:54:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 18:54:46 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15732 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 18:55:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 18:55:03 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168Qp2-00010W-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:49:40 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168Qp1-00010R-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:49:39 +0000 Received: from ldsas09-73-124-152.cw-visp.com ([212.137.124.152] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 168QeZ-0005WW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:38:51 +0000 Message-ID: <3C028556.F0D624E7@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:09:26 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: DISTANCE 136 KHZ References: <45.f7f7edb.29338c3e@aol.com> Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit  

G0MRF@aol.com wrote:

In a message dated 11/25/01 6:59:45 PM GMT Standard Time, gii3kev@netscapeonline.co.uk writes:
 
 
Hello
Its a pity we cannot get more acty going from Southern and Eastern EU. I
have been heard in Malta and and other locations in Southern Spain and
Eastern EU but no one seems to be getting enthusastic about transmitting
for a two way qso.

I was recently in Malta with members of my local club operating as 9H0WW in CQWW.

Do we know if 136k is licensed in Malta?
I did receive partial signals from the crawley club on 136k while in Gibraltar, but the regulators there confirmed 160m was as low as their amateur allocations go.
ZB2 is a non-cept country.  9H/G is not allowed, so I guess the same may be true for Malta.

73

David

Its a pity David you did not let some of us know that you were going. I would also have put out a signal for you and maybe worked xband. Maybe next time !!
 
  From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29559 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 18:34:40 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 18:34:40 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8031 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 18:34:57 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 18:34:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168QUI-0000wh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:28:14 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168QUH-0000wb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:28:13 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 168QTa-0002oQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:27:30 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 168QST-00062a-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:26:21 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011126182521.00ab0cb0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:27:30 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: No beacon tonight MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Won't be running the 73kHz beacon tonight due to other commitments. Will be QRV again tomorrow, if conditions seem reasonable. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22961 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 18:26:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 18:26:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 23856 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 18:26:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 18:26:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168QMj-0000vN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:20:25 +0000 Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.130]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168QMi-0000uv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 18:20:24 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.181.30]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20011126181908.XRAB5089.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Tue, 27 Nov 2001 07:19:08 +1300 Message-ID: <00a601c176a7$48b32300$1eb51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C64A@PDW-MAIL-R1> Subject: LF: Doppler shift on LF? Date: Tue, 27 Nov 2001 07:20:36 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, Andy G4JNT wrote: > Read the article on Dopplergrams by G3PLX in RadCom three or four years ago > ... > There is likely to be several Hz of Doppler shift on that frequency at night > time. > > Guess who forgot that simple fact last night ! >From monitoring of overseas beacons and LF standard frequency and time signals, with significant skywave component in the DX paths (signal strength is much higher at night time), I have not seen evidence of frequency shift from the assumed stable frequency of the transmitter. If there is Doppler shift, it would seem to have limits of no more than 0.1 Hz for carriers around 200 kHz, and is probably proportionally less for lower frequencies. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23185 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 16:33:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 16:33:53 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24396 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 16:33:44 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 16:33:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168Oae-0000dt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 16:26:40 +0000 Received: from mgate.arrl.org ([209.140.206.214] helo=kahless.arrl.org) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168Oad-0000dn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 16:26:40 +0000 Received: by KAHLESS with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 11:24:00 -0500 Message-ID: <125490A005E3D3118C9C00805FC743CC03390D62@KAHLESS> From: "Hare,Ed, W1RFI" To: =?iso-8859-1?Q?'Jos=E9_de_S=E1'?= , "Juha Tuovinen" , dx-news@pro-usa.net, islands@forum.radio-amador.net, dx@qth.net, rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: [DX-NEWS] Phone line RFI Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 11:23:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello, Jose, See the ARRL info at http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/rfitel.html. ARRL's general information on RFI is found at http://www.arrl.org/tis/info/rfigen.html. I am not subscribed to the reflectors you sent this to, so please feel free to pass it along. 73, Ed Hare, W1RFI ARRL Lab 225 Main St Newington, CT 06111 Tel: 860-594-0318 Internet: w1rfi@arrl.org Web: http://www.arrl.org/tis > -----Original Message----- > From: José de Sá [mailto:ct1eeb@mail.telepac.pt] > Sent: Tuesday, November 20, 2001 3:59 PM > To: Juha Tuovinen; dx-news@pro-usa.net; > islands@forum.radio-amador.net; > dx@qth.net; rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: [DX-NEWS] Phone line RFI > > > This is not probably much DX related and I really > apologise for that. > I just find out today that in freq. below 28 Mhz > (when using highpower ) I make > a terrible telephone line interference in my neighbours > telephones, they can't hear a thing only my voice in the > phone. > I would really apreciate your help and advice concerning > this problem, mostly if you already had a similar situation > and what you made to solve it. > > Looking for a reply. > 73 > > > Jose CT1EEB > > > ------------------------------------------------------- > Subscribe/unsubscribe, feedback, FAQ, problems, etc > DX-NEWS http://njdxa.org/dx-news > DX-CHAT: http://njdxa.org/dx-chat > > To post a message, DX NEWS items only, dx-news@pro-usa.net > > Archives http://www.mail-archive.com/dx-news%40pro-usa.net/ > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23739 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 15:59:31 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 15:59:31 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10658 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 15:59:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 15:59:48 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168O16-0000Vf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 15:49:56 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168O15-0000Va-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 15:49:55 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 168O0N-0006Wt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 15:49:11 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 168NzF-0003bB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 15:48:01 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011126132024.00aa4d48@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 14:02:44 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: Re: g4ftc In-reply-to: <01c175e2$5340d120$LocalHost@drawing> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 18:52 25/11/2001 +0000, you wrote: >The one thing which I've never seen in any amateur text books is what are >the value of the ground and system losses normally achievable? I know this >is akin to asking how long is a piece of string, but there must be some >typical examples? > >73s > >David G4FTC Dear David, LF Group, From my own investigations and those of others, amateur 136k antenna loss resistance can vary between 10-20 ohms at minimum to as much as a few hundred ohms, so yours appears to be at the upper end of the spectrum. Much bigger, commercial antennas have loss resistances of a few ohms. The resistance introduced by the actual ground system itself appears not to be the dominant factor in most cases - several people have found that once a certain point has been reached, improving the ground system further makes little difference. The most likely explanation for this seems at the moment to be that most of the antenna resistance is due to dielectric losses in objects in the field close to the antenna, such as buildings, trees, and the ground itself. There seem to be 3 practical approaches to reducing losses: Increasing antenna height Increasing the separation from surrounding "lossy" objects Increasing the amount of top loading. These three things are obviously interdependent - it is hard to increase the length of top loading wires and at the same time increase separation from other objects, so experimentation to find the best compromise is needed. The most effective measure is to increase height, since this also increases the radiated power for a given antenna current, but there are usually practical restrictions on this. For example, I was able to reduce losses in my antenna substantially by eliminating the parts of wires closest to the ground, moving the remaining wire away from trees and building, and as a side effect increasing the height slightly because of the reduced sagging in the wire. On the other hand, G3AQC was able to obtain a substantial improvement by increasing the area covered by the top loading wires of his antenna. It seems each individual location will have a unique solution to what is the best antenna to minimise losses. Good luck with your antenna, and hope to see you on the air soon, Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8872 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 14:29:35 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 14:29:35 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 166 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 14:29:43 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 14:29:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168Mju-0000Hb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 14:28:06 +0000 Received: from mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168Mjt-0000HW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 14:28:05 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail2.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.12.1/8.12.1) with SMTP id fAQERLEg028652 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 15:27:21 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20011126152454.41e7bae4@pb623250.kuleuven.be> X-Sender: pb623250@pb623250.kuleuven.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 15:24:54 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: DISTANCE 136 KHZ In-reply-to: <45.f7f7edb.29338c3e@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >Do we know if 136k is licensed in Malta? >I did receive partial signals from the crawley club on 136k while in >Gibraltar, but the regulators there confirmed 160m was as low as their >amateur allocations go. >ZB2 is a non-cept country. 9H/G is not allowed, so I guess the same may be >true for Malta. >From the MARL (Malta Amateur Radio League) site : "Malta implements CEPT Recommendation TR 61-01 and no separate license is needed if you have joined CEPT" see http://a108.adsl.nextgen.net.mt/marl/info/licence.htm Couldn't find wether Malta allows 136kHz operation, but in case someone is going there it shouldn't be hard to find out via one of the MARL officials. 73, Rik From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28804 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 14:25:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 14:25:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 27295 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 14:25:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 14:25:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168Mcj-0000G5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 14:20:41 +0000 Received: from mail2.globocabo.com.br ([200.231.181.97] helo=ntweb.globocabo.com.br) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168Mci-0000Fd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 14:20:40 +0000 Received: from spovdesi1625 (SPOVD-ESI-1625 [5.8.11.192]) by ntweb.globocabo.com.br with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id XJSSDCX5; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:13:07 -0300 Message-ID: <004601c1768d$b63864e0$c00b0805@globocabo.com.br> From: "PY3CRX PY2PLL" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5708463.1006771705528.JavaMail.imail@goatee.excite.com> Subject: Re: LF: RTTY on 73.3 kHz? Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 13:19:01 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi ... The same FSK, 100Hz shift, was received at 23°S/46°W at 4:30 UTC aprox, centered at 73.25KHz. Sometimes audible, but most of the time only detected on Spectran. Other signals: DCF77 (77.5K) detected WWVB (60.0K) very weak DCFXX (129.1K) nil DATATRAK (133.24) huge signal (20dBuv) DATATRAK (146.40) huge signal (15dBuv) - there's another Datatrak station on 146.4, weaker. Seems that the path at 70KHz was good to Europe and bad for NA. On 130KHz and above not so good. BCs had its normal fs. Those Datatrak seems Argentina and South Africa. One of them is a daytimer here (forgot which one). 73 Marcus PY3CRX/PY2PLL S. B. do Campo - GG66rf http://py.qsl.br Active from "DC" to 24GHz From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24708 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 13:56:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 13:56:30 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5155 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 13:56:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 13:56:47 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168MDV-0000A3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 13:54:37 +0000 Received: from host4.mail.vnet.net ([166.82.1.69] helo=host4.ctc.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168MDU-00009y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 13:54:36 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.181.229]) by host4.ctc.net (InterMail vK.4.03.04.01 201-232-130-101 license 75504bbd3e802bc4034a0097f57d493d) with ESMTP id <20011126135409.XFWU357.host4@att.net> for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 08:54:09 -0500 Message-ID: <3C02496C.DFCEF312@att.net> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 08:53:48 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" Organization: JDM Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: re. 73 Khz tests References: <000401c175d5$aa70fd60$e52b893e@g3aqc> <001901c17675$776d7d80$0300a8c0@charter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John Andrews wrote: > Laurie, Jim: > Nothing seen on 72 kHz last night. It was a bit stormy in this area, and the > noise levels were up. However, no fragments of your signals could be seen, > indicating that propagation may have indeed slipped. > > John Andrews, W1TAG Same report from North Carolina. Caught a lot of teasers on Laurie's frequency but they just won't cooperate and line up. Doppler shift maybe :) Dexter From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 622 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 13:01:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 13:01:11 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 25292 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 13:01:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 13:01:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168LJz-00001f-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:57:15 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168LJy-00001a-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:57:14 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id NAA12409; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 13:05:07 GMT Received: (qmail 9558 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 13:47:30 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 13:47:30 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id NAA19795; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 13:21:11 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma019784; Mon, 26 Nov 01 13:20:41 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 13:00:35 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:56:06 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C64A@PDW-MAIL-R1> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: 73k Beacon - SM6LKM on 80m Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:55:52 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Read the article on Dopplergrams by G3PLX in RadCom three or four years ago ... There is likely to be several Hz of Doppler shift on that frequency at night time. Guess who forgot that simple fact last night ! Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: James Moritz [mailto:j.r.moritz@herts.ac.uk] > Sent: 2001-11-26 12:23 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: 73k Beacon - SM6LKM on 80m > > > Dear LF Group, > > Transmitted on 72.4018kHz from about 2315 until 0505 last > night, with QRSS120. > > I also saw SM6LKM's 80m signals, about 5-6 Hz above the > nominal frequency, > between about 2130 and 2300. Copy was "M" to "O" (see > attachment) - I found > better results were obtained using somewhat wider bandwidth > spectrogram > settings than usual - Using Spectrum Lab, about 0.3Hz > resolution, and Argo > on 3s dots, slow speed, seemed to be optimum. If higher > resolution was > used, the lines were quite fuzzy, whether due to propagation > or TX I don't > know. RX was RA1792, and the antenna was my LF TX wire. This > could be an > interesting way of monitoring HF propagation; It hardly takes up any > bandwidth, and does not require an elaborate TX or antenna to > get a few mW ERP. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1214 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 12:44:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 12:44:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 12307 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 12:44:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 12:44:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168L6E-0008V1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:43:02 +0000 Received: from dc-mx01.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.11] helo=dc-mx01.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168L6D-0008Uw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:43:02 +0000 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johncellar) by dc-mx01.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 47091449 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 07:49:47 -0500 Message-ID: <002c01c17677$c3d3ada0$0300a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5708463.1006771705528.JavaMail.imail@goatee.excite.com> Subject: Re: LF: RTTY on 73.3 kHz? Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 07:42:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John, > That is it! Your picture shows exactly what I see on 73.3kHz. It is not RTTY > but 100Hz wide FSK centred on 73.25. > You evidently have a very good antenna for this direction. I would very much > appreciate some details please. I'm using a square loop, 2 meters on a side, 14 turns, with the turns spaced 2.5 cm. The wire is 12 gauge, and the loop is series-tuned into a coupling transformer. There is no ground connection on the loop side of the transformer, and I've taken pains to keep things balanced. The transformer presently has a 2:1 ratio, with the "2" side connected to coax that runs back to the shack. Tuning of the loop is done with relay-switched capacitors in increments of 50 pf (a 1-2-4-8... sequence with 8 relays). At 73 kHz, about 6400 pf is in use. I'll need finer tuning than that if I want to increase the turns ratio of the transformer, so I'll probably be adding a motor-driven variable cap. The preamp has an honest 50 ohm input (grounded base), and about 30 dB of gain. I don't think there's anything unusual here, but it does work. My QTH is in a residential area just outside a mid-sized city. It's not an RF-quiet spot. I'll be experimenting with ways to track the signal strength on 73.25. My receiver's s-meter is probably the least useful thing in the whole setup! John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26714 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 12:35:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 12:35:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 672 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 12:35:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 12:35:29 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168Kwe-0008S7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:33:08 +0000 Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168Kwc-0008S2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:33:07 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v5.0.0.R) for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:20:14 +0000 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:20:07 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: RTTY on 73.3 kHz? Message-ID: <3C023377.20025.C8007@localhost> In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20011125161143.00ae99c0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> References: <000b01c175c7$584a71a0$491686d4@ericadodd> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Can't remember what the ERP for the 73.25k Rugby transmission was when I > measured it last, but I think it was in the 10s of kW. With amateur signals of > the order of 100mW or so, the difference in ERP is more like 50 to 60dB. No > wonder the noise sidebands are such a pain for amateur operation in the UK! > 73 de M0BMU It is at least 60dB up on amateur transmissions. Jim is about 10km from me and he is S9 when Rugby is 9+60. Rugby is 150km away! Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21717 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 12:28:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 12:28:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 29351 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 12:28:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 12:28:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168KqJ-0008P8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:26:35 +0000 Received: from dc-mx07.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.17] helo=dc-mx07.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168KqI-0008Oz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:26:35 +0000 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johncellar) by dc-mx07.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 48590498 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 07:36:37 -0500 Message-ID: <001901c17675$776d7d80$0300a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000401c175d5$aa70fd60$e52b893e@g3aqc> Subject: LF: Re: re. 73 Khz tests Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 07:25:42 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Laurie, Jim: Nothing seen on 72 kHz last night. It was a bit stormy in this area, and the noise levels were up. However, no fragments of your signals could be seen, indicating that propagation may have indeed slipped. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3502 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 12:26:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 12:26:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21660 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 12:26:23 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 12:26:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168Knc-0008NK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:23:48 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168KnS-0008NA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:23:39 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 168Kmk-0001CE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:22:54 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 168Klb-0005Me-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:21:43 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011126113539.00aa88d8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:22:52 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: 73k Beacon - SM6LKM on 80m MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060809070007050300080803" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060809070007050300080803 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear LF Group, Transmitted on 72.4018kHz from about 2315 until 0505 last night, with QRSS120. I also saw SM6LKM's 80m signals, about 5-6 Hz above the nominal frequency, between about 2130 and 2300. Copy was "M" to "O" (see attachment) - I found better results were obtained using somewhat wider bandwidth spectrogram settings than usual - Using Spectrum Lab, about 0.3Hz resolution, and Argo on 3s dots, slow speed, seemed to be optimum. If higher resolution was used, the lines were quite fuzzy, whether due to propagation or TX I don't know. RX was RA1792, and the antenna was my LF TX wire. This could be an interesting way of monitoring HF propagation; It hardly takes up any bandwidth, and does not require an elaborate TX or antenna to get a few mW ERP. 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4PcqVPoqO1TacqozJtg3KXK5RbSkAAosix8z5YFY+R/+MvCSrfMNB+rI/VipLKH0N8VhAsCR YzaxHT1rmoUWWjF1GDPIyPvFMpqIPEctz3LYciR8wK2JUonMepGmnTx9WApDlNjTnGY9O5Kr pazOukAeKtNQPx8PPAMf5PN/D24f0H55qX2ifacWlsMqUASQiwvzJEk5PepGwHUNq/8AS7kw DztQLEUUSumNIbblc1vmBJYC1EkXFgdvHrphrRm102uF5tTTslHLdLa7tgeSkJ6jfpjXi/8A xAkfdlf6S8Sbvzgz93R+nGZ+7LzCCsf9qYPtTmEoQswLJVbuKpeJG6XV33p9KhKTmdty1Pcw Oq/i0GqdriyjpY6bYAW1AYUhK2XEOqSVocaPvWmt0Em97eJIv0w04W+aD9ZX9uG9X+l1T+oz +k4cjWnT8DABIAJuTttTP2rZKVJEEgbVHtSJNcYcQ/VA1EQbJDxGZzwzWsFG3U3ONVobpp7K 2/LbSjYOKte+txqNDj9B+eqv9dz9RxZTfk1O+6J/UrC3v1AacJUEAgjHwJOKZpdKFteIT5pi fw1//9k= --------------060809070007050300080803-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23900 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 12:22:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 12:22:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24805 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 12:22:23 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 12:22:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168Kfo-0008Ld-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:15:44 +0000 Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.105]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168Kfm-0008LY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:15:42 +0000 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.45.f7f7edb (658) for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 07:14:54 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <45.f7f7edb.29338c3e@aol.com> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 07:14:54 EST Subject: Re: LF: DISTANCE 136 KHZ To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 10505 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit In a message dated 11/25/01 6:59:45 PM GMT Standard Time, gii3kev@netscapeonline.co.uk writes:


Hello
Its a pity we cannot get more acty going from Southern and Eastern EU. I
have been heard in Malta and and other locations in Southern Spain and
Eastern EU but no one seems to be getting enthusastic about transmitting
for a two way qso.


I was recently in Malta with members of my local club operating as 9H0WW in CQWW.

Do we know if 136k is licensed in Malta?  
I did receive partial signals from the crawley club on 136k while in Gibraltar, but the regulators there confirmed 160m was as low as their amateur allocations go.
ZB2 is a non-cept country.  9H/G is not allowed, so I guess the same may be true for Malta.

73

David From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19432 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 12:20:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 12:20:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23614 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 12:20:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 12:20:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168KiD-0008Lk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:18:13 +0000 Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168KiC-0008Lf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:18:13 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v5.0.0.R) for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:14:10 +0000 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 12:14:03 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: QRSS Message-ID: <3C02320B.4818.6F2EC@localhost> In-reply-to: <003d01c17534$11193b60$eb0d97d4@oemcomputer> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > there is a QRSS10 beacon on 3593.539 kHz (give or take a Hz or two). > Johan SM6LKM Johan, Is QRSS10 a way of saying QRSS with 10s dots? If so, this is the first time I have seen this but it is a really good way of describing it. I was the inventor of the term QRSS and take an interest in any modifications to it! I suppose DFCW30 would work, too with the number describing the element length. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22528 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 10:55:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 10:55:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24704 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 10:56:08 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 10:56:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168JKW-00088P-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:49:40 +0000 Received: from kuku-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.63] helo=kuku.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168JKV-00088G-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:49:39 +0000 Received: from goatee.excite.com ([199.172.157.31]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20011126104825.DXHK26764.kuku.excite.com@goatee.excite.com> for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 02:48:25 -0800 Message-ID: <5708463.1006771705528.JavaMail.imail@goatee.excite.com> Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 02:48:21 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RTTY on 73.3 kHz? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender-Ip: 213.104.158.177 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi John, That is it! Your picture shows exactly what I see on 73.3kHz. It is not RTTY but 100Hz wide FSK centred on 73.25. You evidently have a very good antenna for this direction. I would very much appreciate some details please. 73, John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ http://inbox.excite.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20384 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 10:13:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 10:13:31 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 14616 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 10:13:23 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 10:13:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168IiD-00082w-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:10:05 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168IiC-00082r-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:10:04 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id KAA13579; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:17:56 GMT Received: (qmail 1958 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 11:00:19 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 11:00:19 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id KAA09975; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:34:01 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma009966; Mon, 26 Nov 01 10:33:37 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:13:29 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:09:00 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C647@PDW-MAIL-R1> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: 80m QRSS QRPppp QRT Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:08:45 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I saw nothing, but may have gone for too narrow a bandwidth on the monitoring system - Argo in this case - and missed the signal. What was the frequency ? QRSS would be an interesting way for those of us who don't and won't use CW to cross the Atlantic on topband. No comments from Scarborough please ! Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: Johan Bodin [mailto:sm6lkm.jbeab@swipnet.se] > Sent: 2001-11-26 09:18 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: 80m QRSS QRPppp QRT > > > The beacon went off the air "for maintenance" this morning at > 0810 UTC. > > Thanks to DJ8WX, G3JKV and DL4YHF for the encouraging reports! > > G3JKV in IO91UF holds the record, 1120km/mW or 700000 miles/watt, hi > > 73 > Johan SM6LKM > > > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27014 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 09:50:37 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 09:50:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23551 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 09:50:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 09:50:29 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168IMF-0007xd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 09:47:23 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168IMD-0007xY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 09:47:22 +0000 Received: from blanch.pncl.co.uk (48.235.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.235.48]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id fAQ9keo02499 for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 09:46:40 GMT Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011126094422.00a46b50@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 09:47:28 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: Re: LF: 80m QRSS QRPppp QRT In-reply-to: <005201c1765b$4cc70f20$960897d4@oemcomputer> References: <003d01c17534$11193b60$eb0d97d4@oemcomputer> <1682Ng-1zLXA8C@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> <5.0.2.1.2.20011125225307.00a2bb90@mail.pncl.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 10:17 26/11/01 Monday +0100, you wrote: >The beacon went off the air "for maintenance" this morning at 0810 UTC. > >Thanks to DJ8WX, G3JKV and DL4YHF for the encouraging reports! > >G3JKV in IO91UF holds the record, 1120km/mW or 700000 miles/watt, hi > >73 >Johan SM6LKM Interesting! Is that RADIATED power or DC input? My 0.5 mW (radiated) on 136 kHz has only made 300 kms so far. (1W RF into antenna coil) Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3519 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 09:22:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 09:22:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 818 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 09:22:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 09:22:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168Huk-0007rq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 09:18:58 +0000 Received: from fep03.swip.net ([130.244.199.131] helo=fep03-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168Huj-0007rl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 09:18:57 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.8.150]) by fep03-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20011126091812.PCVX3171.fep03-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:18:12 +0100 Message-ID: <005201c1765b$4cc70f20$960897d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <003d01c17534$11193b60$eb0d97d4@oemcomputer> <1682Ng-1zLXA8C@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> <5.0.2.1.2.20011125225307.00a2bb90@mail.pncl.co.uk> Subject: LF: 80m QRSS QRPppp QRT Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 10:17:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The beacon went off the air "for maintenance" this morning at 0810 UTC. Thanks to DJ8WX, G3JKV and DL4YHF for the encouraging reports! G3JKV in IO91UF holds the record, 1120km/mW or 700000 miles/watt, hi 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29690 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 08:24:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 08:24:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 28330 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 08:24:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 08:24:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168Gxm-0007il-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 08:18:02 +0000 Received: from mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.132]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168Gxk-0007ig-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 08:18:01 +0000 Received: from rvernall ([210.54.76.28]) by mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20011126081636.NQZR13078.mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@rvernall> for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:16:36 +1300 Message-ID: <005501c17652$99b29ce0$85b21bca@rvernall> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011124174547.00a15a90@mail.pncl.co.uk> Subject: LF: ZL DX tests 1 Dec Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 21:09:04 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ZL LF DX TESTING ON 1 DECEMBER Two ZL LF stations will be transmitting on September 1 December. Separate frequencies are allocated to each participating station, as summarised in the following table: FREQUENCY SCHEDULE FOR TRANSPAC TESTING FREQUENCY STATION LOCATION kHz 137.7898 ZL6QH Near Wellington 182.000 ZL3VN Christchurch SIGNAL FORMATS ZL6QH will send QQQQQ... with dual frequency CW, using plus and minus 0.2 Hz shift, 120 second dot length. Q will be encoded as 137.7900, 137.7900, 137.7896, 137.7900 kHz, and then a 120 second gap before starting the next Q. The ten minute sequences will be nominally synchronised with the hour (there could be some minor slippage in the control software). ZL6QH will transmit from well before ZL sunset to well after ZL sunrise, which is approximately over the period 0700 to 1800 UTC on 1 December. ZL2VN will send ZL3VN ZL3VN ... with single frequency QRSS CW, using 3 second dot length, for a 30 minute period, then send VN VN ... using 20 second dot length. Sequences will nominally commence on the hour and half hour. Reception reports can be emailed to vernall@xtra.co.nz or else posted to the reflector. Good luck to all prospective listeners. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22438 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 06:52:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 06:52:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 20043 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 06:52:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 06:52:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168FWS-0007Xc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 06:45:44 +0000 Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.130]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168FWQ-0007XR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 06:45:43 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.181.77]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20011126064427.QNQL5089.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:44:27 +1300 Message-ID: <009a01c17646$3b769520$4db51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011004082609.00a1f080@mail.pncl.co.uk> <002701c17a2a$03db3fc0$926e36d2@rvernall> <003801c175bb$9e0275a0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> Subject: LF: Re: ZL6QH tests Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:46:29 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Larry, Yes, I likely can have a signal on air by 0700 UTC. It is well before local sunset at ZL6QH, however, I'll take any DX that comes ... 73, Bob From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22384 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 06:52:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 06:52:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 16872 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 06:52:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 06:52:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168FWO-0007XW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 06:45:40 +0000 Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.130]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168FWM-0007XQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 06:45:38 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.181.77]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20011126064421.QNPR5089.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:44:21 +1300 Message-ID: <009901c17646$37ec35e0$4db51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011124174547.00a15a90@mail.pncl.co.uk> <002d01c1751e$f89d1f80$28b51bca@rvernall> <1682Nx-1zLXA9C@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> Subject: Re: LF: Re: Earth losses Date: Mon, 26 Nov 2001 19:43:22 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Uwe DJ8WX Thanks for advising us of the antenna tuning and loading readings you got, between rx and tx. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13816 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 00:17:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 00:17:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10307 invoked from network); 26 Nov 2001 00:17:38 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Nov 2001 00:17:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1689Mt-0006uJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 00:11:27 +0000 Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.40]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1689Mr-0006uB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Nov 2001 00:11:25 +0000 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.da.f8396ee (3846) for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 19:10:35 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 19:10:34 EST Subject: LF: Johans Transmission Answered ?? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 10504 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi All,
Just watching SM6LKM's QRPPP transmission on 3593.53X kHz,
fine copy now (the "6" started at 00:01:00 UTC) and:
Now someone seems to answer, looks a bit like DFCW but the other signal is too close to a multiple of 50 Hz here so I cannot "decipher" it.

Good fun, but must go to bed now...
Thanks and cul, and good DX Johan !

BTW 00:08:30 UTC now and the "LKM" is just over.

73 Wolf DL4YHF.

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18639 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 23:08:53 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 23:08:53 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 13143 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 23:08:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 23:08:47 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1688F5-0006gx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 22:59:19 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1688F4-0006gs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 22:59:18 +0000 Received: from blanch.pncl.co.uk (137.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.137]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id fAPMwbo13575 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 22:58:37 GMT Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011125225307.00a2bb90@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 22:58:46 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: QRSS on 80m In-reply-to: <00a801c175ec$ba5be200$c80897d4@oemcomputer> References: <003d01c17534$11193b60$eb0d97d4@oemcomputer> <1682Ng-1zLXA8C@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: re 3593 bcn.............. Well recvd here IO91UF, Johann, at 2300 GMT 25th. ...de SM6LKM......................... Something went wrong with screen capture so won't send. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24740 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 22:09:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 22:09:12 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16909 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 22:09:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 22:09:21 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1687PV-0006cJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 22:06:01 +0000 Received: from mailout05.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.82] helo=mailout05.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1687PU-0006cE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 22:06:00 +0000 Received: from fwd06.sul.t-online.de by mailout05.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 1687KE-0007eB-0D; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 23:00:34 +0100 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.157.50.60]) by fwd06.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 1687K8-1Ihqy0C; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 23:00:28 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <003d01c17534$11193b60$eb0d97d4@oemcomputer> <1682Ng-1zLXA8C@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> <00a801c175ec$ba5be200$c80897d4@oemcomputer> Subject: Re: LF: QRSS on 80m (off band) X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 23:00:28 +0100 Message-ID: <1687K8-1Ihqy0C@fwd06.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Johan Bodin schrieb: > Hi Uwe, > > *many!!!* thanks for the report! The screen shot speaks for itself! > Where are you located? > > Multipath fading, Doppler shift and other ionospheric evilness works > against us but nevertheless, QRSS seems to work on HF too! > > My current beacon uses a sloppy "can oscillator" which is drifting several > Hz on 80m but I am working on a new beacon using a frequency standard > that is much better than a piece of rock... Stay tuned... > > > The beacon will continue to run through the night (QRSS10 on 3593.546-ish...). > > Sorry for the off-topic/off-band message.. > > 73 > to ALL > Johan, SM6LKM Hi Johan agn. , ur locator is jo67mr. my lcotor is jo43sv (see screenshot). distanc is 478,7km. azimut 26dgr. ant.: fullsized 80m dipole 16m up beaming 0/180dgr. regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13835 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 20:09:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 20:09:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 15585 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 20:10:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 20:10:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1685Yl-0006Oz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 20:07:27 +0000 Received: from fep04.swip.net ([130.244.199.132] helo=fep04-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1685Yj-0006Ou-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 20:07:26 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.9.22]) by fep04-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20011125200641.NHBG23302.fep04-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 21:06:41 +0100 Message-ID: <00a801c175ec$ba5be200$c80897d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <003d01c17534$11193b60$eb0d97d4@oemcomputer> <1682Ng-1zLXA8C@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> Subject: Re: LF: QRSS on 80m (off band) Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 21:06:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Uwe, *many!!!* thanks for the report! The screen shot speaks for itself! Where are you located? Multipath fading, Doppler shift and other ionospheric evilness works against us but nevertheless, QRSS seems to work on HF too! My current beacon uses a sloppy "can oscillator" which is drifting several Hz on 80m but I am working on a new beacon using a frequency standard that is much better than a piece of rock... Stay tuned... Jim: >Re: QRSS on 80m - Sounds like fun, I will try to receive it later on. It is fun! I managed to receive 15s dot QRSS from SM0AOM (who also is on this list, BTW, hej Karl-Arne!) on 40m some months ago. He transmitted a 0.75uW (microwatt) signal and I got a solid copy on the Argo screen with surprisingly little "spectral smearing". Distance is approx. 400km. The F-layer must have been acting as a perfect mirror that day. This worked on the very first attempt so, statistically, either - we had luck - or - this is indeed workable! Low dipoles were used at both ends (NVIS?). The beacon will continue to run through the night (QRSS10 on 3593.546-ish...). Sorry for the off-topic/off-band message.. 73 to ALL Johan, SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28649 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 19:09:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 19:09:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 17393 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 19:09:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 19:09:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1684ZZ-0006FL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 19:04:13 +0000 Received: from cobalt5-ps.global.net.uk ([195.147.248.165]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1684ZY-0006FG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 19:04:12 +0000 Received: from pc0s09a07.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.233.193] helo=drawing) by cobalt5-ps.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 3.03 #1) id 1684ZY-0006y8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 19:04:13 +0000 From: "David Sparvell" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: g4ftc Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 18:52:26 -0000 Message-ID: <01c175e2$5340d120$LocalHost@drawing> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.71.1712.3 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: QTH Camberley, Surrey. Thanks for the report - it looks like my efforts in putting down more radials is paying dividends. I've now got almost a kilometre of 2.5mm^2 wire in my ground system, but my system losses (including the loading coil) are still well over 100 ohms and consequently I've having difficulties in getting the antenna current up to much over a couple of amps. The one thing which I've never seen in any amateur text books is what are the value of the ground and system losses normally achievable? I know this is akin to asking how long is a piece of string, but there must be some typical examples? 73s David G4FTC -----Original Message----- From: gii3kev To: rsgb rsgb Date: 24 November 2001 19:18 Subject: LF: g4ftc >Nice signal heard and seen from G4FTC this afternoon around 136 khz on >slow cw. >No indication of location/qth >73 de G3KEV > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18242 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 19:03:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 19:03:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21640 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 19:03:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 19:03:19 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1684TK-0006Cb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 18:57:46 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1684TJ-0006CW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 18:57:45 +0000 Received: from ldsas06-70-121-77.cw-visp.com ([212.137.121.77] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1684Ir-00006k-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 18:46:58 +0000 Message-ID: <3C013DA6.D15D50C2@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 18:51:18 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: DISTANCE 136 KHZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Its a pity we cannot get more acty going from Southern and Eastern EU. I have been heard in Malta and and other locations in Southern Spain and Eastern EU but no one seems to be getting enthusastic about transmitting for a two way qso. I also know others have been heard in these places. Maybe the band will never become popular because of the very low band occupancy and having gone to a lot of trouble there is not the quantity of activity to justify the effort. This is the feed back that I am getting when I speak to others around EU and beyond. I think they could be right. I had the antenna towers already installed and although there was effort involved to modify the system for LF it probably was not worth the effort. This weekend due to the contest all HF bands were completely congested, cw is certainly not on the way out, one could hardly find a slot all the way from 160 - 10 metres, 10 metres was swamped with acty world wide, so for a very modest antenna 8 ft vertical, the qso yield was enormous. Compare this to 136 khz where I managed to have 3 qso all weekend, OK1DTN, ON7ZO and G6RO. Room for thought!! de G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9493 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 17:23:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 17:23:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 2161 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 17:24:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 17:24:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1682z1-000642-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 17:22:23 +0000 Received: from mail6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1682z1-00063x-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 17:22:23 +0000 Received: from modem-101.orange-tail-butterfly.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.43.229] helo=g3aqc) by mail6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 1682yK-0000Lz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 17:21:40 +0000 Message-ID: <000401c175d5$aa70fd60$e52b893e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: re. 73 Khz tests Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 17:20:03 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I am not happy with condx but will keep Jim company from 2200 DFCW 120sec dots 72.401 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23502 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 16:50:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 16:50:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23883 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 16:50:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 16:50:40 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1682Og-0005xd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 16:44:50 +0000 Received: from mailout01.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.80] helo=mailout01.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1682Od-0005xY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 16:44:48 +0000 Received: from fwd07.sul.t-online.de by mailout01.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 1682Nx-0002oT-07; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 17:44:05 +0100 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.156.6.202]) by fwd07.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 1682Ng-1zLXA8C; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 17:43:48 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <003d01c17534$11193b60$eb0d97d4@oemcomputer> Subject: Re: LF: QRSS on 80m (off band) X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------090101090407040703040307" Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 17:43:48 +0100 Message-ID: <1682Ng-1zLXA8C@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090101090407040703040307 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Smalbandsministern schrieb: > Hi All, > > there is a QRSS10 beacon on 3593.539 kHz (give or take a Hz or two). > > What does it say? > > Power is 1 mW into a dipole 8m above GND. > > 73 > Johan SM6LKM Hi Johan, something new ! see attachement. have a try with less pwr ! regards Uwe/dj8wx --------------090101090407040703040307 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="CAPTSM~1.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="CAPTSM~1.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEBLAEsAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRof Hh0aHBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwh MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAAR CABYAdcDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA AgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkK FhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWG h4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl 5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEAAwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREA 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Normal Received: (qmail 14169 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 16:50:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 16:50:16 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1682P2-0005xo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 16:45:12 +0000 Received: from mailout04.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.18] helo=mailout04.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1682P1-0005xj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 16:45:11 +0000 Received: from fwd07.sul.t-online.de by mailout04.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 1682OF-0000Sz-00; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 17:44:23 +0100 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.156.6.202]) by fwd07.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 1682Nx-1zLXA9C; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 17:44:05 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011124174547.00a15a90@mail.pncl.co.uk> <002d01c1751e$f89d1f80$28b51bca@rvernall> Subject: Re: LF: Re: Earth losses X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 17:44:05 +0100 Message-ID: <1682Nx-1zLXA9C@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Vernall schrieb: ........................... > Even though the transmitter is optimised for 50 ohm loading > (low pass filter and coupling designed for 50 ohm interconnection), that > does not mean it is 50 ohms looking back into the transmitter. ................ > I believe the > explanation is in the differing resistances (or impedances with differing R > component) of the transmitter output and receiver input. > Hi Bob, guess we have to go one step further: looking back from the antenna into the loadingcoil. I f.e. have to adjust the variometer of the loadingcoil (searching maximum of rx-voltage or antamp peak with an hitzdraht ampmeter) 1. if switching from rx to tx 10W output and newly 2. if switching from rx to tx 100W output (test) and 3. if switching from rx to tx 500W output (test). the adjust degrees at the variometer differ vy little switching the tx from 10W to 100W to 500W. the bridge shows no difference, but the hitzdraht ampmeter (peak) does. from rx (FT1000) to tx 10W (Z 50ohm) it is abt 10ohm (!) up. regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29226 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 16:29:51 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 16:29:51 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11436 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 16:30:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 16:30:00 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16826c-0005tR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 16:26:10 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16826b-0005tM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 16:26:09 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 16825v-0007nC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 16:25:27 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16824o-0004GF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 16:24:18 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011125161143.00ae99c0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 16:25:26 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: RTTY on 73.3 kHz? In-reply-to: <000b01c175c7$584a71a0$491686d4@ericadodd> References: <4f.14ca23c4.293040de@aol.com> <007401c174d6$fc38f8a0$a3ca28c3@ericadodd> <001501c174ec$f212b260$0300a8c0@charter.net> <000201c1751b$6063bb00$3dce28c3@ericadodd> <3C000DE3.AED73455@att.net> <3C0011CB.3156569C@att.net> <001d01c175b1$0b29bb30$0400000a@parissn2> <3C01071D.34B4F3AC@att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Dexter, Peter, LF Group, Can't remember what the ERP for the 73.25k Rugby transmission was when I measured it last, but I think it was in the 10s of kW. With amateur signals of the order of 100mW or so, the difference in ERP is more like 50 to 60dB. No wonder the noise sidebands are such a pain for amateur operation in the UK! Incidentally, I find that the 25Hz filter on the SPM19 selective level meter I have rings rather badly with thunderstorm QRN, so often better results can often be had using a wider filter, even with narrow band signals. Cheers, Jim Moritz, 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29476 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 16:29:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 16:29:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 11379 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 16:29:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 16:29:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 168270-0005tn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 16:26:34 +0000 Received: from dc-mx05.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.15] helo=dc-mx05.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16826z-0005ti-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 16:26:34 +0000 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johncellar) by dc-mx05.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 54451390 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 11:31:07 -0500 Message-ID: <001e01c175cd$d79b28e0$0300a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011125151753.00a8c540@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Re: QRSS on 80m, Antenna losses, 73k Beacon Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 11:25:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jim, > Re: 73kHz - I note there has been another almost X-class flare today, > however the geomagnetic storm seems to have died down, and Alan has > convinced me that propagation will definitely be marvellous, so I will give > the beacon another go tonight. It will be on QRSS120, 72.4018kHz again. I'll be there. Will start recording around 2200. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22599 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 16:09:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 16:09:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 28105 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 16:09:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 16:09:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1681mG-0005qF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 16:05:08 +0000 Received: from dc-mx05.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.15] helo=dc-mx05.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1681mA-0005q4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 16:05:02 +0000 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johncellar) by dc-mx05.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 54446994 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 11:09:23 -0500 Message-ID: <000e01c175ca$ceb1ffe0$0300a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4f.14ca23c4.293040de@aol.com> <007401c174d6$fc38f8a0$a3ca28c3@ericadodd> <001501c174ec$f212b260$0300a8c0@charter.net> <000201c1751b$6063bb00$3dce28c3@ericadodd> <3C000DE3.AED73455@att.net> <3C0011CB.3156569C@att.net> <001d01c175b1$0b29bb30$0400000a@parissn2> <3C01071D.34B4F3AC@att.net> Subject: Re: LF: RTTY on 73.3 kHz? Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 11:04:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------010509000309050507040204" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010509000309050507040204 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I need to do some more detective work, but I have a strong signal here in Massachusetts, from 73.2 to 73.3 kHz. There have been listings of CFH on 73.6, but perhaps they have moved down to 73.25. In any case, it makes it very hard to read a signal on 73.3. This shot was taken at 11 AM local time:
 
 
I will look again tonight, but I doubt that 73.3 will be much of an indicator from here.
 
John Andrews, W1TAG
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O2HTlxk0DpeQPH5d+vqN3KA77lV5du2+vgeOk312/mjo6f4RTZ8L4mzlxkpoJTZ5pKyCzKIZ JEACSPCG8t3XimnZSwKIQQVXXlTwviKmXbJQVpFsF2lVDPI0Mcjb5SJCW8tHO226qGPN+/qb bLzybUsIBBRA+/kf7f8A36wTkWooSCS6c9/If2/+/XJbNBPWdZ1nUB//2Q== --------------010509000309050507040204-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11449 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 16:03:20 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 16:03:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23408 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 16:03:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 16:03:38 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1681hl-0005oN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 16:00:29 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1681hl-0005oI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 16:00:29 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 1681h4-0007cU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 15:59:46 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 1681fx-00045C-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 15:58:37 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011125151753.00a8c540@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 15:59:24 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: Re: QRSS on 80m, Antenna losses, 73k Beacon In-reply-to: <003d01c17534$11193b60$eb0d97d4@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Re: QRSS on 80m - Sounds like fun, I will try to receive it later on. Earlier in the year I was able to copy Bill Ashlock's WA, one of the US "Hifer" beacons around 13.555MHz, running similar power levels and 3s/dot QRSS. Re: Measuring antenna Q - as has been pointed out, you would need to know the source impedance of the TX; for many transmitters, as well as not being known at the outset this is probably non-linear (ie. varies depending on load), so if you wanted to do it this way, some kind of attenuating pad between TX output and antenna would be advisable. This would also reduce the amount of distress the TX is subjected to. Re: 73kHz - I note there has been another almost X-class flare today, however the geomagnetic storm seems to have died down, and Alan has convinced me that propagation will definitely be marvellous, so I will give the beacon another go tonight. It will be on QRSS120, 72.4018kHz again. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18610 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 15:40:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 15:40:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 9090 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 15:40:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 15:40:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1681LG-0005kj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 15:37:14 +0000 Received: from tvout.mail.uk.easynet.net ([194.6.96.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1681LF-0005ke-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 15:37:13 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-13-73.easynet.co.uk [212.134.22.73]) by tvout.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1EEEC63160 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 15:36:30 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000b01c175c7$584a71a0$491686d4@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4f.14ca23c4.293040de@aol.com> <007401c174d6$fc38f8a0$a3ca28c3@ericadodd> <001501c174ec$f212b260$0300a8c0@charter.net> <000201c1751b$6063bb00$3dce28c3@ericadodd> <3C000DE3.AED73455@att.net> <3C0011CB.3156569C@att.net> <001d01c175b1$0b29bb30$0400000a@parissn2> <3C01071D.34B4F3AC@att.net> Subject: Re: LF: RTTY on 73.3 kHz? Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 15:38:26 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Dexter & Bob > I lost all signal from the 73.3 kHz RTTY station by 0100 UT last > evening. QRN was very high so the signal could have been just below my > noise level. Relative signal strength logged are as follows: > > 2100 UT -52 dbm > 2300 UT -48 dbm > 0000 UT -47.5 dbm > 0100 UT undetectable > 0200 UT " > 0300 UT " > 0400 UT " > > Bob, K3DJC, in Pa. also was hearing the signal. Excellent! This can be the basis for monitoring 73kHz T/A propagation. Expect ham radio signals to be about 30 - 35 dB down on this! (anyone who would like to correct this figure - please do). Propagation studies on 136kHz were done by Alan, G3NYK, who monitored the Canadian Naval station CFH in Nova Scotia. See www.qsl.net/on7yd/ for details. This could be a good Lowfer project in the USA Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14505 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 15:02:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 15:02:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26927 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 15:02:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 15:02:48 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1680kq-0005fX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 14:59:36 +0000 Received: from host4.mail.vnet.net ([166.82.1.69] helo=host4.ctc.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1680ko-0005fS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 14:59:35 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.181.229]) by host4.ctc.net (InterMail vK.4.03.04.01 201-232-130-101 license 75504bbd3e802bc4034a0097f57d493d) with ESMTP id <20011125145858.TMNR357.host4@att.net> for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 09:58:58 -0500 Message-ID: <3C01071D.34B4F3AC@att.net> Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 09:58:37 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" Organization: JDM Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RTTY on 73.3 kHz? References: <4f.14ca23c4.293040de@aol.com> <007401c174d6$fc38f8a0$a3ca28c3@ericadodd> <001501c174ec$f212b260$0300a8c0@charter.net> <000201c1751b$6063bb00$3dce28c3@ericadodd> <3C000DE3.AED73455@att.net> <3C0011CB.3156569C@att.net> <001d01c175b1$0b29bb30$0400000a@parissn2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I lost all signal from the 73.3 kHz RTTY station by 0100 UT last evening. QRN was very high so the signal could have been just below my noise level. Relative signal strength logged are as follows: 2100 UT -52 dbm 2300 UT -48 dbm 0000 UT -47.5 dbm 0100 UT undetectable 0200 UT " 0300 UT " 0400 UT " Bob, K3DJC, in Pa. also was hearing the signal. I will be looking for the signal again. I don't recall hearing it before but when listening for G3AQC the receiver was in 20 Hz IF mode so I would not have heard the RTTY. 73, Dexter Stewart Nelson wrote: > > Dexter McIntyre W4DEX wrote: > > > Just for grins, I recorded a 15 sec .wav file of the 73.3 kHz RTTY > > signal and uploaded it at: > > > > www.qsl.net/w4dex/73khzRTTY.wav > > > It sounds strong enough I almost believe it would print here > > if the static crashes were absent. > > Many thanks, Dexter, for the great puzzle. Unfortunately, I failed > miserably trying to solve it. Although this is an FSK signal, > I don't think it is RTTY in the usual sense. Does anyone know the > format (or at least the source)? > > The apparent baud rate is 74.99; of course this is affected by the > sampling rate of Dexter's sound card. The frequency shift is also > very close to 75 Hz, but I don't believe that it's precisely one > carrier cycle per bit time, because attempts at coherent detection > were unsuccessful. However, even with a time-between-zero-crossings > detector, the S/N was quite good (with aggressive predetect filtering). > I considered a bit questionable when its frequency offset was less > than 40% of average; only one of 1142 bits failed this test. > So I'm confident that the data is nearly correct. Unfortunately, > I couldn't find any start or stop bits, any sign of a character > length, any repeating patterns, or any other indication that it > is anything but random. I suspect that this data is compressed, > encrypted, uses ECC, or perhaps all of the above. > > If you can make any sense of the message below, let us know. "X" > might be one or zero, "." is the opposite. > > ...X.XX.X.XX..XXX..X.XXX.X...XX..X...X..X...X.X..XX...X...X....X...XXX.. > X..XX.X..XXX.X.XXX.XXX.XX..XX.X.X.XXXXX.X.....XXXXX...X.....XXX..X.XXXXX > .XX.X.X.XXX...XXXXX..XX..XX..XXX..X.X.XX.X.X.XX......X..XXX..XX.XXXXX..X > ...XX.XXXX..XXXX.X..X.XXXX.X........X.X.XXXX?XXXX.XX.....XXX.XXX...X.... > XX.X.X......XX.X..XXX...XXXXX..X.XX.XX..XX....X...XXXXXX.XXXX...X..XXX.. > .X.X..X.XXXXX..XX.X...XXX....XX.X.XX.X....X.XX..X....XXXXXX.X.X...X..X.X > ....X.XXX..X.X...XX...X..XX.X..XX.X.......XXX.X..X.X.X.X.XX.....X..XX... > X.X..XX..X.XXX..XX.XXX.X...X....XX.X......X...X.XXX.X.XX..XXX..X.....XX. > .X..X.XXXXX...X.X.X.X.X..XXXXX...X.XX..X.....XXX.XX.XXX...XXXXX..XXX.XXX > ...X.X....XX..XXXX.XXXXXX.XX..X.XX.X...XXXXXXXXXXXX..X.......XXX.X.X..XX > XXX..XXX...XX.XXX.X..X......XXX.X....X.X.X.....X...XX.X..XX..X..X.X.X... > ..X....XXX.X......X..XX.X..X....X.XX.X...X.X.X...X.XXXX.X.X.X..XX...X..X > .X..X..XX.X.....XX.X.XX.XXXX......X.X.X..X..X....X..X..X.X..X..XX.XX..X. > XXXX...X...X.X.XXXX....X.X.XXXX.XX.XX...XX.XX......X.XXX.XX..X..X.....XX > X.X.XXX.X....XXXX.X.XXX..XXX.....X.X.XXX.XX...X..XXXXXXXX.X.X.X.XX.XX..X > XX..X..XX........XX..X.XX...XX.XXX....X.XX..X....X..XXX...XXXX > > 73, > > Stewart KK7KA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6834 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 14:19:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 14:19:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 7136 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 14:19:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 14:19:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16805D-0005ao-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 14:16:35 +0000 Received: from tomts6.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.26] helo=tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16805C-0005aj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 14:16:34 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.209.138.90]) by tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20011125141520.HIZV9997.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 09:15:20 -0500 Message-ID: <003801c175bb$9e0275a0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011004082609.00a1f080@mail.pncl.co.uk> <002701c17a2a$03db3fc0$926e36d2@rvernall> Subject: LF: ZL6QH tests Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 09:14:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Bob: I have been digging into my programs here and I show your grayline starting about 0720 utc on December 1st. Is it possible for you to start transmitting at 07 utc, or even a bit earlier Please. I have also arranged for my friends with their mobile clocks to go by here late on the 30th so I will be freshly calibrated in frequency for the tests on the 1st. I have also installed Internet service here in the remote site so I will have real time monitoring as well as Internet if there is any interest in that. I will have the usual telephone lines, if you want the number for a voice line in here let me know, it will be different than for the TA tests last year. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25206 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 13:07:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 13:07:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 1980 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 13:07:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 13:07:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167yyl-0005SJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 13:05:51 +0000 Received: from cmailenv3.svr.pol.co.uk ([213.218.77.55]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167yyk-0005SE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 13:05:50 +0000 Received: from [62.21.131.189] (helo=w8k3f0) by cmailENV3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 167yy2-0003Nl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 13:05:07 +0000 Message-ID: <001001c175b1$ed2a0620$bd83153e@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011124174547.00a15a90@mail.pncl.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Earth losses Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 14:05:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear OM, Walter, G3JKV, wrote: > If you measured the bandwidth of an entire antenna system, (earth-tuning > coil-antenna), then measured the bandwidth of the coil itself alone, could > this be used to get some idea of earth losses? Could it be assumed the > ohmic losses in the system are negligible compared with earth? Yes, that can be done, Actually that was how I measured the earth resistance at my QTH as a function of frequency. I first measured the total resistance of aerial + coil. Then the resistance of the coil was measured separately and this value was subtracted from the first reading. That gave the earth resistance. The resistance of the aerial wires and the radiation resistance were neglected because they are a very small part of the total resistance in the system. I reported my findings on the reflector and I now repeat part of the text of that message. "I used a Wayne Kerr admittance bridge that shows the admittance as a conductance in millimhos (now called millisiemens) in parallel with a capacitance in pF. I left the C-control at zero because the aerial resistance was measured at resonance. Jim, M0BMU, has clearly explained why this is the better way. As source and detector I used a Wandel & Goltermann signal generator SP-12 and selective level meter SPM-12. They can be interconnected so the SPM-12 also controls the frequency of the SP-12. Because in this way source and detector are always tuned to exactly the same frequency I could use the SPM-12 at its 25Hz bandwidth position which helped to avoid strong signals and noise received by the aerial polluting the measurements. The coil has taps after every ten turns. I shortcircuited increasing parts of the coil using those taps. (I also tried leaving the unused part open. But as the used part became smaller and the unused part larger the voltage at the top end of the coil increased more and more, rendering the system extremely sensitive to hand capacitance effect). At each tap the frequency for resonance was sought and the conductance read from the bridge. The resistance of the coil at each tap was found by replacing the aerial by a variable vacuum capacitor. The capacitor was adjusted until resonance was obtained. The high Q of the coil made tuning extremely critical; in fact hand capacitance made it impossible to tune precisely to the resonance frequency. Fortunately the frequency of the PS-12/SPM-12 combination can be adjusted in very small steps and this was used to tune exactly to the resonance frequency. " 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27135 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 13:00:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 13:00:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 27988 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 13:00:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 13:00:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167yrQ-0005PY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 12:58:16 +0000 Received: from sun4.scgroup.com ([192.55.122.7]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167yrO-0005PT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 12:58:14 +0000 Received: from parissn2 (AMontsouris-101-1-3-195.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.252.108.195]) by sun4.scgroup.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with SMTP id EAA11566 for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 04:57:06 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001d01c175b1$0b29bb30$0400000a@parissn2> From: "Stewart Nelson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4f.14ca23c4.293040de@aol.com> <007401c174d6$fc38f8a0$a3ca28c3@ericadodd> <001501c174ec$f212b260$0300a8c0@charter.net> <000201c1751b$6063bb00$3dce28c3@ericadodd> <3C000DE3.AED73455@att.net> <3C0011CB.3156569C@att.net> Subject: LF: RTTY on 73.3 kHz? Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 13:59:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dexter McIntyre W4DEX wrote: > Just for grins, I recorded a 15 sec .wav file of the 73.3 kHz RTTY > signal and uploaded it at: > > www.qsl.net/w4dex/73khzRTTY.wav > It sounds strong enough I almost believe it would print here > if the static crashes were absent. Many thanks, Dexter, for the great puzzle. Unfortunately, I failed miserably trying to solve it. Although this is an FSK signal, I don't think it is RTTY in the usual sense. Does anyone know the format (or at least the source)? The apparent baud rate is 74.99; of course this is affected by the sampling rate of Dexter's sound card. The frequency shift is also very close to 75 Hz, but I don't believe that it's precisely one carrier cycle per bit time, because attempts at coherent detection were unsuccessful. However, even with a time-between-zero-crossings detector, the S/N was quite good (with aggressive predetect filtering). I considered a bit questionable when its frequency offset was less than 40% of average; only one of 1142 bits failed this test. So I'm confident that the data is nearly correct. Unfortunately, I couldn't find any start or stop bits, any sign of a character length, any repeating patterns, or any other indication that it is anything but random. I suspect that this data is compressed, encrypted, uses ECC, or perhaps all of the above. If you can make any sense of the message below, let us know. "X" might be one or zero, "." is the opposite. ...X.XX.X.XX..XXX..X.XXX.X...XX..X...X..X...X.X..XX...X...X....X...XXX.. X..XX.X..XXX.X.XXX.XXX.XX..XX.X.X.XXXXX.X.....XXXXX...X.....XXX..X.XXXXX .XX.X.X.XXX...XXXXX..XX..XX..XXX..X.X.XX.X.X.XX......X..XXX..XX.XXXXX..X ...XX.XXXX..XXXX.X..X.XXXX.X........X.X.XXXX?XXXX.XX.....XXX.XXX...X.... XX.X.X......XX.X..XXX...XXXXX..X.XX.XX..XX....X...XXXXXX.XXXX...X..XXX.. .X.X..X.XXXXX..XX.X...XXX....XX.X.XX.X....X.XX..X....XXXXXX.X.X...X..X.X ....X.XXX..X.X...XX...X..XX.X..XX.X.......XXX.X..X.X.X.X.XX.....X..XX... X.X..XX..X.XXX..XX.XXX.X...X....XX.X......X...X.XXX.X.XX..XXX..X.....XX. .X..X.XXXXX...X.X.X.X.X..XXXXX...X.XX..X.....XXX.XX.XXX...XXXXX..XXX.XXX ...X.X....XX..XXXX.XXXXXX.XX..X.XX.X...XXXXXXXXXXXX..X.......XXX.X.X..XX XXX..XXX...XX.XXX.X..X......XXX.X....X.X.X.....X...XX.X..XX..X..X.X.X... ..X....XXX.X......X..XX.X..X....X.XX.X...X.X.X...X.XXXX.X.X.X..XX...X..X .X..X..XX.X.....XX.X.XX.XXXX......X.X.X..X..X....X..X..X.X..X..XX.XX..X. XXXX...X...X.X.XXXX....X.X.XXXX.XX.XX...XX.XX......X.XXX.XX..X..X.....XX X.X.XXX.X....XXXX.X.XXX..XXX.....X.X.XXX.XX...X..XXXXXXXX.X.X.X.XX.XX..X XX..X..XX........XX..X.XX...XX.XXX....X.XX..X....X..XXX...XXXX 73, Stewart KK7KA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27224 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 09:35:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 09:35:38 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 12468 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 09:35:57 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 09:35:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167vbZ-00055a-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 09:29:41 +0000 Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167vbY-00055V-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 09:29:40 +0000 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.44.16d516b9 (25098) for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 04:28:21 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <44.16d516b9.293213b5@aol.com> Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 04:28:21 EST Subject: Re: LF: QRSS on 80m (off band) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 10504 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi Johan,

thanks for the nice experiment, though I had no success to receive the QRPPP beacon on 80 meters yet. Maybe the time-of-day was not optimal.
Does the beacon run 24 hours a day ?

-...-

Apart from this, congrats to everyone involved to the recent achievements on 72 kHz. Needless to say that Laurie and also Peter were fine copy here, with a single-rod ferrite antenna connected to a TS850...  keep on trying !


73 and GL
Wolf DL4YHF. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 661 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 00:40:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 00:40:38 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11186 invoked from network); 25 Nov 2001 00:40:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Nov 2001 00:40:56 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167nEL-00049L-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 00:33:09 +0000 Received: from m11.boston.juno.com ([64.136.24.74]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167nEK-00049G-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 00:33:08 +0000 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"yokUgcxCbtTP7XLrpefewIS9VH/YcmYupJFtIdXIlHFnngiVz2eRaQ=="> Received: (from riese-k3djc@juno.com) by m11.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id GL25QDRX; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 19:32:08 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 19:24:57 -0500 Subject: Re: LF: 73kHz/136kHz Message-ID: <20011124.193052.-764091.1.riese-k3djc@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "BOB RIESE" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Just for grins, I recorded a 15 sec .wav file of the 73.3 kHz RTTY signal and uploaded it at: www.qsl.net/w4dex/73khzRTTY.wav File size is about 244 kb. Dexter --------------------------------------- Gave a listen and will start to monitor Signal at York Pa is not as loud but good copy at 0025 UTC posting to the net is a good idea. tnx Dex Bob K3DJC From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29334 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 22:33:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 22:33:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15125 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 22:33:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 22:33:55 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167lJy-0003rp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 22:30:50 +0000 Received: from mta43-acc.tin.it ([212.216.176.239] helo=fep43-svc.tin.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167lJx-0003rk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 22:30:49 +0000 Received: from dii.unisi.it ([212.171.197.250]) by fep43-svc.tin.it (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with ESMTP id <20011124222952.PUGQ3377.fep43-svc.tin.it@dii.unisi.it> for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 23:29:52 +0100 Message-ID: <3C001E60.CB914048@dii.unisi.it> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 23:25:36 +0100 From: "VALERIO" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.4.7 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: IK5/TEST References: <3BFE715C.32179C3D@netscapeonline.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: gii3kev wrote: > > I heard IK5ZPV testing on 136 khz last evening at 2212 utc with a very > strong signal S8. He did not appear to be listening, no cq etc. Condx > seemed very good last night and some of the commercial stations were > around 6db above normal around the 136 khz freq area. Perhaps 136 would > have been a better bet last night for transatlantic rather than 73 khz. > G3KEV Mal, thank you for report, but no rx at moment in my new (and cold) shack. I'm waiting for a baby, so no more room for radio in my home, only in the field. I made some transmission test for Italian sations(IK7-IS0) interested in developing 136 kHz activity. '73, Valerio (IK5ZPV) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28277 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 22:06:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 22:06:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 16920 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 22:07:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 22:07:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167kvY-0003oC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 22:05:36 +0000 Received: from fep04.swip.net ([130.244.199.132] helo=fep04-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167kvX-0003o7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 22:05:35 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.13.235]) by fep04-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20011124220451.KFSH23302.fep04-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 23:04:51 +0100 Message-ID: <003d01c17534$11193b60$eb0d97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Smalbandsministern" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: QRSS on 80m (off band) Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 23:03:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, there is a QRSS10 beacon on 3593.539 kHz (give or take a Hz or two). What does it say? Power is 1 mW into a dipole 8m above GND. 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29855 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 21:34:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 21:34:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10010 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 21:34:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 21:34:17 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167kPg-0003jK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 21:32:40 +0000 Received: from europa.your-site.com ([140.186.45.14]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167kPf-0003jF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 21:32:40 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.181.229]) by europa.your-site.com ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 16:31:56 -0500 Message-ID: <3C0011CB.3156569C@att.net> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 16:31:55 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" Organization: JDM Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 73kHz/136kHz References: <4f.14ca23c4.293040de@aol.com> <007401c174d6$fc38f8a0$a3ca28c3@ericadodd> <001501c174ec$f212b260$0300a8c0@charter.net> <000201c1751b$6063bb00$3dce28c3@ericadodd> <3C000DE3.AED73455@att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Just for grins, I recorded a 15 sec .wav file of the 73.3 kHz RTTY signal and uploaded it at: www.qsl.net/w4dex/73khzRTTY.wav File size is about 244 kb. Dexter Dexter McIntyre W4DEX wrote: > > g3ldo wrote: > Would it be possible for as many > > stations on your side of the Atlantic to monitor the RTTY station at Rugby > > on 73.3kHz during the CME disturbance - we have very little knowledge of > > T/A propagation on this band. > > > > Peter, > > At 2100 hrs I am receiving a good RTTY signal on 73.3 kHz. Since this > is the first time I have listened for this transmission I have no > reference to judge it's current signal strength. It sounds strong > enough I almost believe it would print here if the static crashes were > absent. > > Last night was a complete wipe out for my 73 kHz reception due to > thunder storms in the area. Tonight will be even worse but the much > needed rain is well welcomed. > > Dexter, W4DEX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2757 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 21:18:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 21:18:04 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29578 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 21:17:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 21:17:59 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167k9c-0003gL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 21:16:04 +0000 Received: from europa.your-site.com ([140.186.45.14]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167k9b-0003gG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 21:16:03 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.181.229]) by europa.your-site.com ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 16:15:17 -0500 Message-ID: <3C000DE3.AED73455@att.net> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 16:15:15 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" Organization: JDM Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 73kHz/136kHz References: <4f.14ca23c4.293040de@aol.com> <007401c174d6$fc38f8a0$a3ca28c3@ericadodd> <001501c174ec$f212b260$0300a8c0@charter.net> <000201c1751b$6063bb00$3dce28c3@ericadodd> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: g3ldo wrote: Would it be possible for as many > stations on your side of the Atlantic to monitor the RTTY station at Rugby > on 73.3kHz during the CME disturbance - we have very little knowledge of > T/A propagation on this band. > Peter, At 2100 hrs I am receiving a good RTTY signal on 73.3 kHz. Since this is the first time I have listened for this transmission I have no reference to judge it's current signal strength. It sounds strong enough I almost believe it would print here if the static crashes were absent. Last night was a complete wipe out for my 73 kHz reception due to thunder storms in the area. Tonight will be even worse but the much needed rain is well welcomed. Dexter, W4DEX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1714 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 20:14:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 20:14:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 23633 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 20:14:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 20:14:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167j7M-0003XY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 20:09:40 +0000 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167j7M-0003XB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 20:09:40 +0000 Received: from [213.122.83.182] (helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 167j32-0005KT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 20:05:12 +0000 Message-ID: <000401c17523$4c2ff100$b6537ad5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: 73k Prop ...stop-press Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 20:01:39 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, John stole the march on me I had not looked at the charts until after flying the last message (This the the MS Outook Exp. send before receive). As he rightly says the CME arrived nearly 24 hours early (on normal calculations) and the Kp hit 9 early today. This one will last a long time, but the LF propagation should not start to decline before Tuesday. What could be a problem is noise levels in Canada and the US if there are widespread aurora. Enhanced daytime reception is the 'giveaway' if you monitor any stations regularly. Its still worth a couple more nights!! Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25564 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 19:47:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 19:47:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 25156 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 19:47:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 19:47:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167ieF-0003Rq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 19:39:35 +0000 Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.130]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167ieE-0003RU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 19:39:34 +0000 Received: from rvernall ([202.27.178.146]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20011124193433.ROMZ5089.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@rvernall> for ; Sun, 25 Nov 2001 08:34:33 +1300 Message-ID: <002d01c1751e$f89d1f80$28b51bca@rvernall> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011124174547.00a15a90@mail.pncl.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Earth losses Date: Sun, 25 Nov 2001 08:33:04 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Walter, I have not been reading all messages on this thread, but I have some comments on your item: > If you measured the bandwidth of an entire antenna system, (earth-tuning > coil-antenna), then measured the bandwidth of the coil itself alone, could > this be used to get some idea of earth losses? Could it be assumed the > ohmic losses in the system are negligible compared with earth? It is prudent to call them "all other losses" and that includes equivalent earth loss. One factor that is easy to overlook is loss within the transmitter (the source resistance looking back into the transmitter). This is fairly hard to measure as it is easy to fry test gear. I do know from operation of my own LF PA that the source resistance changes depending on power level. Even though the transmitter is optimised for 50 ohm loading (low pass filter and coupling designed for 50 ohm interconnection), that does not mean it is 50 ohms looking back into the transmitter. The more efficient the transmitter, the lower the effective source resistance (the idea is to get maximum power in the load). Transmitter efficiency is a rough indication of trend, with highest efficiency having lowest resistance. Hard switching finals likely have much lower source resistance than finals that are linear amplifiers. If the same antenna is used for receiving, then it could be that the receiver presents a good 50 ohm load, in which case the antenna system Q would be lower than when transmitting (where the transmitter is a low source resistance). There are parallel cases with high Q HF transmitting antennas, where antenna tuners have separate optimum adjustments for tx and rx. I believe the explanation is in the differing resistances (or impedances with differing R component) of the transmitter output and receiver input. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29153 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 19:44:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 19:44:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 2735 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 19:45:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 19:45:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167iSw-0003QT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 19:27:54 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167iSv-0003Pz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 19:27:53 +0000 Received: from [213.1.143.239] (helo=default) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 167iOb-00067w-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 19:23:26 +0000 Message-ID: <001c01c1751d$756f14c0$ef8f01d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: 73kHz Propagation and CMEs Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 19:13:15 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Guys, dont give up just yet...... The CME is due (late 25th or 26th maybe even later...this was only and X1.0 though it was preceded by an M4.0 so the plasma 'glob' will be quite big ) but the injected ions (electrons) take about another 3 days to start to have radio effects at these lattitudes. It seems to take time for them to diffuse down to the D layer and out from the magnetic poles. There is a big proton event at the moment and these 'seem' to coincide somethimes with good conditions. Don't write conditions off until Wednesday night at the earliest..... in fact it could be getting better. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 330 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 19:15:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 19:15:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 14256 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 19:15:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 19:15:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167iBl-0003Nz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 19:10:09 +0000 Received: from chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net ([212.135.1.67]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167iBk-0003NC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 19:10:08 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-1-61.easynet.co.uk [195.40.206.61]) by chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1F1DD1D522F for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 19:05:35 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000201c1751b$6063bb00$3dce28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4f.14ca23c4.293040de@aol.com> <007401c174d6$fc38f8a0$a3ca28c3@ericadodd> <001501c174ec$f212b260$0300a8c0@charter.net> Subject: LF: 73kHz/136kHz Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 14:09:37 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John Andrews, W1TAG said > Well, I guess it had to end. Absolutely nothing was visible from Laurie or > Jim on 72 kHz last night. I kept the screen on 120 sec dots, which precluded > being able to see Peter. > > A CME is due to arrive in the next day, so I suppose that will muck things > up for a while. Anyway, thanks to all who participated and encouraged. And > particularly to Laurie, who must be owed a few quid for his AC supplier! Many thanks for your efforts that end. Would it be possible for as many stations on your side of the Atlantic to monitor the RTTY station at Rugby on 73.3kHz during the CME disturbance - we have very little knowledge of T/A propagation on this band. In view of what you say I will not beacon of 73kHz tonight but might try 135.99kHz if anyone is interested. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21532 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 18:51:17 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 18:51:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3340 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 18:51:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 18:51:23 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167hq2-0003Iu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 18:47:42 +0000 Received: from f202.law9.hotmail.com ([64.4.9.202] helo=hotmail.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167hq1-0003IZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 18:47:41 +0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 10:42:42 -0800 Received: from 32.97.110.71 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 18:42:42 GMT X-Originating-IP: [32.97.110.71] From: "Grok Heurewicz" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: 73k/136k Last night Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 19:42:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 24 Nov 2001 18:42:42.0664 (UTC) FILETIME=[CCF8CE80:01C17517] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >Ther was also a new QRSS signal I have not seen before, a little below >136.0 kHz, just after 2300 (see attachment). Dot length was about 1second - >can anyone identify ? :-) Easy : it was a "proficient CW operator", only using "hand sent morse" :-) -Grok- _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14020 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 18:49:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 18:49:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 2519 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 18:49:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 18:49:13 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167ho8-0003Ii-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 18:45:44 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167ho7-0003IX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 18:45:43 +0000 Received: from ldsas13-77-128-133.cw-visp.com ([212.137.128.133] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 167ha4-0006Lh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 18:31:12 +0000 Message-ID: <3BFFE996.98E17612@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 18:40:22 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: g4ftc Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Nice signal heard and seen from G4FTC this afternoon around 136 khz on slow cw. No indication of location/qth 73 de G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15320 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 17:59:40 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 17:59:40 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 12814 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 17:59:45 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 17:59:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167h1J-0003Bv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 17:55:17 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167h1I-0003Bn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 17:55:16 +0000 Received: from blanch.pncl.co.uk (223.235.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.235.223]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id fAOHolZ00330 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 17:50:48 GMT Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011124174547.00a15a90@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 17:51:03 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: Earth losses MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: If you measured the bandwidth of an entire antenna system, (earth-tuning coil-antenna), then measured the bandwidth of the coil itself alone, could this be used to get some idea of earth losses? Could it be assumed the ohmic losses in the system are negligible compared with earth? Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9852 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 15:50:06 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 15:50:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5154 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 15:50:15 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 15:50:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167f2E-0002zs-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 15:48:06 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167f2D-0002zn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 15:48:05 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 167f1W-0006nC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 15:47:22 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 167f0P-0006Y7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 15:46:13 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011124145514.00a8cc68@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 15:46:03 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: 73k MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, The 73kHz TX ran OK between about 2230 and 0550 last night; thanks to those who watched for it and to DF6NM for the report. I also took the opportunity to do some more field strength measurements - I have not done the calculations yet, but the FS values look roughly in line with my estimate of 80mW ERP. Looking at the space weather, it seems to be stormy weather in the ionosphere at the moment, so I will give it a rest tonight, and perhaps try again tomorrow night. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8337 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 14:29:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 14:29:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 11917 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 14:29:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 14:29:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167dhb-0002sA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 14:22:43 +0000 Received: from cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.171]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167dha-0002s5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 14:22:42 +0000 Received: from modem-62.astaldo.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.129.62] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 167dgr-0000JO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 14:21:57 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c174f3$6376f5a0$3e81883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. 73kHz Tonight. Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 14:20:53 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John said "Well I guess it had to end------ " Yes I guess it did but it was fun,so thanks for listening John, Dex and the others,thanks for the reports and pics from far and near. I have been looking at various solar numbers during the tests and far from predicting when propagation will be OK I can at least say when it wont ! During Wednesday night 21/22 Nov the Sun Spot number dropped from 160 to 132, the Kp index was 1-2 and the Boulder A index was 7. On thursday all these numbers began to rise, and by last night S.Spot was 144, Kp was3 and Boulder A10. Today these no's are still rising.So I shall continue to look for the low no's. See you all again on136 or 73. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5726 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 13:39:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 13:39:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 24731 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 13:40:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 13:40:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167cz8-0002mY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 13:36:46 +0000 Received: from dc-mx07.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.17] helo=dc-mx07.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167cz7-0002mT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 13:36:45 +0000 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johncellar) by dc-mx07.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 48094919 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 08:46:43 -0500 Message-ID: <001501c174ec$f212b260$0300a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4f.14ca23c4.293040de@aol.com> <007401c174d6$fc38f8a0$a3ca28c3@ericadodd> Subject: Re: LF: 73k Tonight Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 08:35:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Well, I guess it had to end. Absolutely nothing was visible from Laurie or Jim on 72 kHz last night. I kept the screen on 120 sec dots, which precluded being able to see Peter. A CME is due to arrive in the next day, so I suppose that will muck things up for a while. Anyway, thanks to all who participated and encouraged. And particularly to Laurie, who must be owed a few quid for his AC supplier! John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29220 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 10:59:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 10:59:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 1529 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 10:59:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 10:59:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167aU9-0002RJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 10:56:37 +0000 Received: from lycee.ns.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167aU8-0002RE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 10:56:36 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-3-163.easynet.co.uk [195.40.202.163]) by lycee.ns.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 561059C73 for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 10:55:52 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <007201c174d6$f6f41820$a3ca28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011121102933.00a7b730@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Subject: Re: LF: Measuring Q Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 10:40:40 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Jim and LF Group Jim Said > My 136k Loading coil has 80 odd turns of Decca litz wire on a sectional > manhole former. L is about 4mH, and Rseries about 5ohms, making Q around > 700. My 136kHz coil is a rewound Decca coil with two layers of coil and the original variometer, which was also rewound. This gives a coil with an inductance variation of 1.7mH to 2.2mH. > For 73k, another sectional manhole is stacked on top, wound with about > 120 turns of 19/0.25 Teflon insulated stranded wire, which gives a total L > of about 15mH, and a Q of around 300. The coils are wound in sections, with > the total turns divided fairly evenly between the 14 slots on the former . > The required number of turns wound in to each slot before moving to the > next, with the aim of minimising inter-winding C and maximising breakdown > voltage, rather like the old-fashioned RF chokes. I am using a sectional manhole former for the the 73kHz coil wound exactly as Jim describes but using the yellow 2mm Litz wire. It uses around 98 turns (7turns per slot) to give an inductance of around 6.8mH (forgot to make a note of that L measurment and the figure is from memory). When the two coils were stacked the inductance was 10mH and 9.2 when the variometer was set to minimum. > So G3LDO's Qs of less > than 200 suggest either poor inductor performance or Q measurement errors. Using Jim's coil construction as a standard of comparison I would have expected a coil of similar construction but using less turns per section, and using Litz wire, to have a Q something in excess of 300. My measurements, using the method that I have already described was still less than 200 no matter how much care I took reducing the coupling to the measuring instruments. I feel that this method of measuring Q is OK for loaded Q as in a filter and that other methods described by Jim and Ha Jo DJ1ZB are more appropriate for hi Q measurements. > My main reason for winding big loading coils was to stop the > things melting! Well thats it. I had a coil catch fire when the windings slipped and an arc occured through the plastic insulation. Thanks to everyone who offered suggestions on this subject. I will but a synopsis of this discussion on the Web page when I get it together. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6986 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 10:59:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 10:59:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 1478 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 10:59:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 10:59:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167aUH-0002Rc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 10:56:45 +0000 Received: from lycee.ns.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167aUF-0002RL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 10:56:44 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-3-163.easynet.co.uk [195.40.202.163]) by lycee.ns.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B3B499E1F for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 10:56:01 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <007401c174d6$fc38f8a0$a3ca28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4f.14ca23c4.293040de@aol.com> Subject: Re: LF: 73k Tonight Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 10:57:43 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Markus, DF6NM, said > nice signals from your transatlantic triumvirate: BMU and AQC about equal > strength here, LDO some 2 dB weaker around midnight UTC. Yesterday, QRN was > lower and signals were quite audible beating against each other, with Peter > about 3 dB down on Laurie. Many thanks for the report Markus. From picture you sent it would seem better if I moved up in frequency to 73.4005 for the next test. I ran the transmitter all night with 4amps to the antenna. Two cells in the UPS pack got a bit hot but everything else ran cool. I must get a couple of replacement cells on my next trip to Crawley (have you any left Derek?). Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21810 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 09:43:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 09:43:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 22446 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 09:43:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 09:43:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167ZII-0002J8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 09:40:18 +0000 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167ZIH-0002J3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 09:40:17 +0000 Received: from [213.122.187.219] (helo=presario1920) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 167ZHa-0006lQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 09:39:35 +0000 From: "John W Gould" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: 73kHz Beacon Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 09:40:05 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <001601c17360$6ad0ad80$e572883e@g3aqc> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Just caught up with the excellent work this last week - well done to Laurie and John in particular, but also the others in NA who were receiving and the guys in UK transmitting. It makes our efforts to extend our usage on this band, back in 2000, all worthwhile. 73 John, G3WKL -----Original Message----- From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf Of Laurie Mayhead Sent: Thursday, November 22, 2001 14:17 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 73kHz Beacon Hi All, Well I have achieved what I set out to do,so would be happy to stop the beacon now if anyone wants to have a go. But I am aware that there are others who were looking for my signal, Dex for example.Also there propagation issues to investigate ,for example why did'nt Dex see the signal,and will conditions hold up much longer. So I am quite happy to beacon again for a night or two,unless anyone has any other ideas ? Thanks for all the messages 73s Laurie.. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25347 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 05:43:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 05:43:05 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3192 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 05:43:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 05:43:11 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167VWZ-0001uV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 05:38:47 +0000 Received: from mailout02.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.17] helo=mailout02.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167VWY-0001uQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 05:38:46 +0000 Received: from fwd04.sul.t-online.de by mailout02.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 167VVd-0000Gt-00; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 06:37:49 +0100 Received: from 217.2.66.17 (087321565-0001@[217.2.66.17]) by fwd04.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 167VVO-157aAEC; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 06:37:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: LF: RE: Measuring Q From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 4.009 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: 24 Nov 2001 05:35 GMT Message-ID: <167VVO-157aAEC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Dexter, your question has not yet been answered here: No, the complete antenna system is also damped by the ground loss resistance which usually is much higher than the coil series loss resistance itself, therefore bandwidth of the complete antenna system will be much larger. 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" schrieb: >Can the -3db bandwidth measurement of the complete antenna system be >used to determine the Q of the coil? > >Dexter From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8051 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 05:42:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 05:42:55 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3180 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 05:43:09 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 05:43:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167VVq-0001uO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 05:38:02 +0000 Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.36]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167VVp-0001uJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 05:38:01 +0000 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.23.14eac1d6 (16782) for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 00:36:42 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <23.14eac1d6.29308be9@aol.com> Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 00:36:41 EST Subject: Re: LF: My error..... To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks for the clarification, Larry. That's most enlightening. I must say, I hadn't thought of the PL application for the 1000Hz tone. Last time I had any contact with such a network was a quarter century ago when I hung around our local auto salvage yard quite a bit, and they would poll other yards around the Southeast trying to find bits and pieces to keep my Triumph GT-6 on the road. The most self-contradictory collection of mechanical systems ever assembled into one vehicle, it was no trivial task to keep roadworthy, I can tell you. It was also my first introduction to the concept of dimensional transcendentalism, years before Dr. Who was available over here. But a haunted sports car whose interior contents would vanish into some other continuum and return at random is rather off topic for this reflector, I suspect.... 73, John From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16057 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 02:28:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 02:28:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 13451 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 02:28:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 02:28:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167SVE-0001av-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 02:25:12 +0000 Received: from dc-mx01.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.11] helo=dc-mx01.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167SVD-0001aq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 02:25:11 +0000 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johncellar) by dc-mx01.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 46525485 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 21:31:57 -0500 Message-ID: <001501c1748f$221f3360$0300a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20011123114229.30e7c588@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <002001c1741b$7aa112c0$0300a8c0@charter.net> <000f01c1744f$56949120$4c1686d4@ericadodd> <000501c17481$9334d180$231686d4@ericadodd> Subject: Re: LF: Re 73kHz Beacon Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 21:24:24 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: No sign of G3AQC or M0BMU as of 0215. Will keep recording... John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28192 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 00:46:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 00:46:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 7437 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 00:46:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 00:46:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167Qwb-0001ON-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 00:45:21 +0000 Received: from chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net ([212.135.1.67]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167Qwa-0001OI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 00:45:20 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-13-35.easynet.co.uk [212.134.22.35]) by chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8BA5C1D524B for ; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 00:44:36 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000501c17481$9334d180$231686d4@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20011123114229.30e7c588@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <002001c1741b$7aa112c0$0300a8c0@charter.net> <000f01c1744f$56949120$4c1686d4@ericadodd> Subject: Re: LF: Re 73kHz Beacon Date: Sat, 24 Nov 2001 00:46:40 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > I will transmit with more power but for a shorter period (2300 until 0100) > for the reasons described earlier. > > I will transmit QRSS 60 second dots on 72.3994kHz The transmission has been on since 2300 and the power is good (4amps into the antenna) and the power supply looks stable. I think I will go to bed and leave the transmission running Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7531 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 00:20:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 00:20:53 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24265 invoked from network); 24 Nov 2001 00:20:47 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Nov 2001 00:20:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167QVX-0001LA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 00:17:23 +0000 Received: from imo-m01.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167QVW-0001L5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Nov 2001 00:17:22 +0000 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-m01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.4f.14ca23c4 (17232) for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 19:16:31 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <4f.14ca23c4.293040de@aol.com> Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 19:16:30 EST Subject: Re: LF: 73k Tonight To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------020608030706040306030202" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 72 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020608030706040306030202 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Jim, Laurie and Peter, nice signals from your transatlantic triumvirate: BMU and AQC about equal strength here, LDO some 2 dB weaker around midnight UTC. Yesterday, QRN was lower and signals were quite audible beating against each other, with Peter about 3 dB down on Laurie. 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v0J9U/5dhnjyVoAB0TaeR5/9KXVPvW3/AFxWgf8AIGP/AF3/AKVkv4dNef6s6p/7xX/wv8kJ pny/acf88Wre+FZz8StJOAOZun/XF6wdN/5ev+uJrd+FX/JSdI+s3/ol6t/FP5fkctRfuKXz /M+ksUYpaK5DmExRilooAb3FLSdxRTJP/9k= --------------020608030706040306030202-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1804 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 18:51:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 18:51:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 25643 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 18:52:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 18:52:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167LKf-0000mY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 18:45:49 +0000 Received: from latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.40]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167LKe-0000mS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 18:45:48 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-13-76.easynet.co.uk [212.134.22.76]) by latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E31D853B2D for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 18:45:05 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000f01c1744f$56949120$4c1686d4@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20011123114229.30e7c588@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <002001c1741b$7aa112c0$0300a8c0@charter.net> Subject: Re: LF: Re 73kHz Beacon Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 18:45:25 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi John et al, John, W1TAG said, >My wife has reminded me of a social obligation tonight. If anyone is running, I will start the recording before >we leave, and hopefully can check it by 0200. The wx forecast is fine for here, but will again by stormy in the >south central U.S. I will transmit with more power but for a shorter period (2300 until 0100) for the reasons described earlier. I will transmit QRSS 60 second dots on 72.3994kHz Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20235 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 18:31:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 18:31:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 20088 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 18:31:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 18:31:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167L0h-0000ih-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 18:25:11 +0000 Received: from antiochus-fe0.ultra.net ([146.115.8.188]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167L0f-0000ic-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 18:25:10 +0000 Received: from comrex (209-122-234-110.s2174.apx2.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.234.110]) by antiochus-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n20340/mtc.v2) with SMTP id NAA08176 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 13:24:18 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004f01c1744c$7a7af6e0$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011123170446.00ae57b0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Subject: LF: Re: 73k Tonight Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 13:26:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jim & Laurie, I will have my gear running and recording by 2230, but won't be able to provide any reports until at least 0130, as I will be socially occupied (per my wife's very insistent instructions). Jim, I assume you will be using CW, rather than DFCW. Correct? John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2896 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 18:25:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 18:25:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11579 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 18:26:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 18:26:07 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167Kv8-0000i0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 18:19:26 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167Kv2-0000hv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 18:19:20 +0000 Received: from ldsas13-77-128-178.cw-visp.com ([212.137.128.178] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 167KkX-0000zL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 18:08:30 +0000 Message-ID: <3BFE7C6B.54A17925@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 16:42:19 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: SLOW CW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Jim That was a nice shot of my signal you took last night just below 136 khz. The speed was 2 wpm, the slowest that I can go with the auto keyer. I was expecting a report from the USA !!!!!!!!!!!!!! but am satisfied with yours for the time being !! It is not computer generated and not in the same category as most of the other very slow morse about. Like you I heard IK5ZPV at S8 very strong but he did not appear to be listening for a qso. I have worked him many times before. Good luck with your new loop. I was also doing a soak test last night at the low speed to check for heating, fires etc !! fortunately the PA and associated coils were barely warm. It looks promising for the very very slow cw if I have to QRS further hi 73 de Mal/G3KEV/IO94SH From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28918 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 17:16:48 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 17:16:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 19505 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 17:16:52 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 17:16:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167Jt1-0000ZU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 17:13:11 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167Jt0-0000ZP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 17:13:10 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 167JsK-0007hf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 17:12:28 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 167JrD-0000Q6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 17:11:20 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011123170446.00ae57b0@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 17:12:24 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: 73k Tonight MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Hope to be QRV on 73k from around 2300 this evening. I shall try 72.4018kHz with 120s dots. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22139 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 16:54:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 16:54:28 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11057 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 16:54:45 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 16:54:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167JWi-0000V7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 16:50:08 +0000 Received: from smtp1.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.91] helo=smtp2.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167JWh-0000Ua-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 16:50:07 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.93.92]) by smtp2.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 12:45:11 -0400 Message-ID: <3BFEC4CD.2C9A4273@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 16:51:09 -0500 From: "john currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: lf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I will not listen past 0000 Z this weekend as will bw participating in cqww test . 40 meters only CU on 40 . Saw nil last night 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17424 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 16:39:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 16:39:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 14900 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 16:39:03 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 16:39:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167JIF-0000SB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 16:35:11 +0000 Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.60]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167JIE-0000S6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 16:35:11 +0000 Received: from 66-44-56-242.s242.tnt2.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.56.242] helo=nanandsandy) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #10) id 167JHV-0002Mx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 11:34:25 -0500 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 11:34:05 -0500 Message-ID: <01C17412.C1C48640.esanders@erols.com> From: "Nan and Sandy Sanders" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 73 Khz Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 11:33:52 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Just checked last nights ARGO captures no luck. John there may be something to the Hoover theory. Sandy WB5MMB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11198 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 16:19:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 16:19:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 13577 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 16:19:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 16:19:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167Iws-0000NP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 16:13:06 +0000 Received: from mail12.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.215]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167Iwr-0000NK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 16:13:06 +0000 Received: from modem-124.orbic-batfish.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.44.124] helo=g3aqc) by mail12.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 167IwB-0008Uq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 16:12:23 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c17439$a5806ea0$7c2c893e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 73kHz Beacon Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 16:09:01 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, I shall run the beacon again tonight although I belive conditions falling off. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28343 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 16:19:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 16:19:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 13759 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 16:19:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 16:19:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167IwM-0000NB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 16:12:34 +0000 Received: from tomts7.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.40] helo=tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167IwL-0000N0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 16:12:34 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.209.138.25]) by tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20011123161119.JFAL9080.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 11:11:19 -0500 Message-ID: <002e01c17439$7be0ea20$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <155.3badb82.291bfd5c@aol.com> <00aa01c16876$8416c940$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> <022501c16996$4f5a1880$a4e3adcb@p150> Subject: LF: My error..... Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 11:05:23 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Back a while ago I got my foot firmly into my mouth re 20/1000 ringing induction on the POTS telephone network in this age. My apology to all. 20/1000 was used extensively in the old analogue network, the toll transmission part of the system. It was also used extensively in private line systems such as air traffic control and weather circuits where the line was monitored full time by a speaker system. The 20 Hz rang the bells, the 1000 hz woke up those who were audio monitoring. When you lifted the handset the speaker was cut off, so if the handset was sitting on the desk the bells rang, or the 1000 Hz would wake the dead through the speaker. The ringing generators, a number of types, but in this case were made by the Holtzer Cabot Co. of Boston and examples are on display of the 20/1000 generators in a number of museums, mainly in the USA. Why I was convinced that this was used on the POTS network I am not sure. I have now checked a number of line cards used in both ESS and DMS switches and find that it is not even an option anymore. Again my apology to all. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8310 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 16:09:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 16:09:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 23036 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 16:08:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 16:08:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167Iel-0000I6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 15:54:23 +0000 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167Iei-0000Hz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 15:54:20 +0000 Received: from [213.122.245.246] (helo=default) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 167Idz-000598-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 15:53:36 +0000 Message-ID: <000901c17436$fabf94c0$f6f57ad5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: 73kHz Propagation Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 14:17:05 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, I have not made any measurements on signals as low as 73kHz, but it looks from John's results on Laurie's signal, as though the effects of the big geomagnetic storm have not affected the lower frequency for as long as its effects at 136. The normal final stages of the storms's effects on long distance paths is first the show lots of very rapid fading (10 to 15 mins peak to trough) . Over the next nights the fading period then seems to lengthen. At 136kHz the normal pattern was often of two main peaks one about midnight and other often better peak occuring about 60 to 90mins before dawn in the UK. I have often seen a long dip between about 0200z and 0330z in the 137kHz path from CFH. It is a useful approximation to remember that the shadow at 100kms altitude (Bottom of E-layer) is about about 1000 to 1200 miles further west of the shadow at ground level. The signal decays as the sunlight ionises the region below, and the absorbtion produced wipes out the path to the 'first reflection' point of a 2-hop path (about 1/4 of the transatlantic path length). In some respects I am not surprised about the lack of other successes. I have found that conditions on 136kHz can vary quite markedly over just 20 to 30 miles, and there were at time quite considerable differences between the the signals I recorded, and Laurie captured on his chart recorder. I suppose it all depends on the happy conincidences of path-lengths and signal phases from different interfering 'rays'. Thus the three observations from John W1TAG, seem to follow a pattern. It goes to show you have great difficultly in predicting good nights, althouh to be fair to the ol' rabbit's paw I did say things should be improving. The longer wavelength at 73kHz possibly means it is not so badly affected by the multipath fading conditions as 136kHz. and paths recover quickly. These conditions could be an enhancement on 'normal flat conditions' as it is possible that there was some multipath operating in Laurie and John's favour. We have seen 6 to 10dB enhancement on 137kHz in similar conditions. It just goes to show....never mind the theory, get on and try it !! Dead flat, quiet, solar conditions may not be the best, it is seeming to suggest that the last gasp of a big geomagnetic event could just provide the boost we need. Well done all, keep the momentum up....we are still really just stumbling around in the dark. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17976 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 16:00:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 16:00:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15627 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 16:00:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 16:00:24 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167Ih9-0000IH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 15:56:51 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167Ih8-0000IC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 15:56:50 +0000 Received: from ldsas12-76-127-188.cw-visp.com ([212.137.127.188] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 167IWZ-00022J-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 15:45:56 +0000 Message-ID: <3BFE715C.32179C3D@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 15:55:08 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: IK5/TEST Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I heard IK5ZPV testing on 136 khz last evening at 2212 utc with a very strong signal S8. He did not appear to be listening, no cq etc. Condx seemed very good last night and some of the commercial stations were around 6db above normal around the 136 khz freq area. Perhaps 136 would have been a better bet last night for transatlantic rather than 73 khz. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29342 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 14:22:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 14:22:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 27643 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 14:23:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 14:23:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167H61-00003j-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 14:14:25 +0000 Received: from mailhost.terra.es ([195.235.113.151] helo=tsmtp4.mail.isp) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167H5u-00003e-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 14:14:19 +0000 Received: from adsl ([212.170.195.92]) by tsmtp4.mail.isp (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 tsmtp4 Jul 26 2001 13:10:38) with SMTP id GN9BDB01.Y1R for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 15:10:23 +0100 Message-ID: <001201c17429$3739caa0$0501a8c0@adsl> From: "Federico Olaizola Zabala" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <639D20177889D41198A600508BAD3CA1011EF0B8@capella3.oss.akzonobel.nl> Subject: LF: RE: T22 - Any info ? Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 15:11:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------000902030302080808030907" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000902030302080808030907 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Info abt. T2* tubes 73 de EA2HB Federico ----- Original Message ----- From: Laken, W.H.P.A. van der (Wil) To: Sent: Friday, November 23, 2001 9:55 AM Subject: LF: T22 - Any info ? > Hi folks, > > One of the local amateurs detected a MF transmitter on a scrapyard. > It is equipped with 6 T22 tubes from GEC, but we can not find any details > for that tube. > Any info available somewhere ? > > Wil (PA0BWL) > --------------000902030302080808030907 Content-Type: application/x-msexcel; name="T22.xls" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="T22.xls" 0M8R4KGxGuEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPgADAP7/CQAGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAHQAAAAAA AAAAEAAA/v///wAAAAD+////AAAAABwAAAD///////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 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//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// ////////////////////////////////UgBvAG8AdAAgAEUAbgB0AHIAeQAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABYABQH//////////wIAAAAgCAIA AAAAAMAAAAAAAABGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAgBGpFSh0wQH+////AAAAAAAAAABXAG8AcgBrAGIA bwBvAGsAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA EgACAf///////////////wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AACyFwAAAAAAAAUAUwB1AG0AbQBhAHIAeQBJAG4AZgBvAHIAbQBhAHQAaQBvAG4AAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAoAAIBAQAAAAMAAAD/////AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADAAAAAAQAAAAAAAABQBEAG8AYwB1AG0AZQBuAHQAUwB1AG0A bQBhAHIAeQBJAG4AZgBvAHIAbQBhAHQAaQBvAG4AAAAAAAAAAAAAADgAAgH///////////// //8AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAUAAAAABAAAAAAAAA= --------------000902030302080808030907-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6249 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 14:13:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 14:13:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 10821 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 14:13:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 14:13:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167H1k-00002U-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 14:10:00 +0000 Received: from fep04.swip.net ([130.244.199.132] helo=fep04-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167H1j-00002P-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 14:09:59 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.13.10]) by fep04-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20011123140915.FLXI23302.fep04-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 15:09:15 +0100 Message-ID: <016b01c17428$7562af00$f60c97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C643@PDW-MAIL-R1> Subject: LF: Re: Missing IC Function (off topic) Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 15:09:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andy, > A serially loaded high-sided driver several outputs, with outpult voltage > rating greater than 15V and current > 100mA. such creatures exist! For example UCN5895A. MOS input, bipolar output, 50V (NPN emitter follower, unfortunately, you'll lose 1.2V @ 120mA) See also 5890 and 5891 for higher currents. Look at: http://www.allegromicro.com/sf/5895/index.htm 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11419 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 13:48:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 13:48:28 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29741 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 13:48:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 13:48:32 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167Geb-0008UG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 13:46:05 +0000 Received: from europa.your-site.com ([140.186.45.14]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167GeY-0008UB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 13:46:03 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.181.229]) by europa.your-site.com ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 08:45:17 -0500 Message-ID: <3BFE52F1.9162AD2B@att.net> Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 08:45:21 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" Organization: JDM Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re 73kHz Beacon References: <3.0.1.16.20011123114229.30e7c588@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <002001c1741b$7aa112c0$0300a8c0@charter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > John Andrews wrote: > > Things eventually did improve last night. This was recorded from 0430 > - 0545 UTC: > The wx forecast is fine for here, but will again by > stormy in the south central U.S. > > John Andrews, W1TAG I just viewed last nights results. No signals detected in North Carolina. QRN steadily increased overnight. Storms are now 600 km south west of my QTH and are moving closer. A good shower of rain would be about as exciting as receiving a 73 kHz signal. It's been over 6 weeks since we've had rain. Congratulations again John. Dexter From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14576 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 12:42:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 12:42:31 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 7869 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 12:42:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 12:42:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167Fcd-0008KJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 12:39:59 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167Fcb-0008KE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 12:39:58 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id MAA05391; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 12:47:44 GMT Received: (qmail 6280 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 13:30:18 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 13:30:18 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id NAA20426; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 13:04:15 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma020405; Fri, 23 Nov 01 13:03:57 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 12:43:20 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 12:38:56 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C643@PDW-MAIL-R1> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: "LF Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: Missing IC Function (off topic) Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 12:38:40 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Does anyone know of a chip that does the following function : A serially loaded high-sided driver several outputs, with outpult voltage rating greater than 15V and current > 100mA. The sort of function that would normally be met by a latched shift register plus a handful of medium current PNP devices or P channel FETs. The only ones I can find are the UCN5810/1/2 or UCN6809-1868. family and they are only rated at 25mA.due to Vce drop across emitter follower NPN drivers. Are there any in the 100 to 500mA rating ? I'm sure there must be a huge number of designers who want this in a single chip, and it can hardly be a difficult IC fabrication task. It is surely possible to fabricate medium current PNP transistors on the same die as NPN. There are quintillions of the NPN equivalent low sided switch - just about every micro controller to relay interface uses one ! (Needed to automatically switch power rails to a range of VCO modules depending on frequency, in a wide band synthesizer under computer controll) Andy G4JNT -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25719 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 12:40:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 12:40:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 5080 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 12:40:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 12:40:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167Fa6-0008K5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 12:37:22 +0000 Received: from dc-mx04.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.14] helo=dc-mx04.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167Fa3-0008K0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 12:37:19 +0000 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johncellar) by dc-mx04.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 52978526; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 07:42:51 -0500 Message-ID: <002001c1741b$7aa112c0$0300a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be References: <3.0.1.16.20011123114229.30e7c588@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: Re: LF: Re 73kHz Beacon Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 07:36:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------010502040600080601090004" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010502040600080601090004 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Rik, Laurie, et al,
 
Things eventually did improve last night. This was recorded from 0430 - 0545 UTC:
 
Argo was set for 120 sec dots, and as with the previous evening, there was some difficulty in separating successive characters on the same line. My cure in the earlier session was to use the 90 second screen, which worked fine under the better conditions. Last night, since I'd had trouble seeing anything useful on that screen, I left it at 120 seconds.
 
I believe Laurie said that the off-time was 40 seconds. Perhaps even 60 seconds would have made a difference. In the above case, the message was well known, and easily figured out.
 
I saw some fragments in the early recording that might have been from Peter, but there was no way to tell.
 
My wife has reminded me of a social obligation tonight. If anyone is running, I will start the recording before we leave, and hopefully can check it by 0200. The wx forecast is fine for here, but will again by stormy in the south central U.S.
 
John Andrews, W1TAG
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(qmail 15707 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 11:31:18 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 11:31:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167ETj-00089g-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 11:26:43 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167ETg-00089b-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 11:26:40 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 167ESz-0005tB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 11:25:57 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 167ERt-0000m4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 11:24:49 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011123102739.00a86f30@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 11:25:56 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: 73k/136k Last night MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060500080508060905000309" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060500080508060905000309 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear LF Group, I was able to get reasonable field strength measurements of the two 73k beacons last night- G3AQC -93dBuV/m, 22uV/m G3LDO -95dBuV/m, 18uV/m Don't have distance info to hand, but if you have d in km, E in uV/m, ERP is (E^2.d^2)/(49x10^6). You would have to add in any effects of ground wave losses also. My QTH is in IO91VR. Also, when I got home last night just after 2200, heard a nice 559 "test" signal from IK5ZPV on a new RX loop I had left set up for testing. Not sure if this indicates good loop performance, or good propagation or both. Ther was also a new QRSS signal I have not seen before, a little below 136.0 kHz, just after 2300 (see attachment). Dot length was about 1second - can anyone identify ? :-) Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU --------------060500080508060905000309 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="qrss.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="qrss.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRof Hh0aHBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwh MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAAR CACFArkDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHAAAAQUBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcI/8QASxAAAQMC BAQDBgMFBQQIBwEAAQIDEQAEBRIhMQYTQVEiYXEHFDKBkaEVscEjQlLR8BYzU3LhCCRi8SU1 Q4KTlaLTJjRERVRjdLL/xAAaAQACAwEBAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADBAECBQAG/8QAPREAAQMCAwUH AgUDAgcBAQAAAQACEQMhBDFBElFhcYETIpGhscHwBdEUMkLh8SNSkhXCM2JygqKy0jST/9oA DAMBAAIRAxEAPwDwe0JF20UxmChEia7pu8Tf2tsxmQyouNtlpZEuIygmeoBE95+dcJbAG4bm fiG1dpbO4Y7juGYg+i4USoIciAVLSUR5QQdY+1ehwAcMI57WkkEwReDAtGV9OIWj9PqljnAE XgEG0gnfna3ObrjLtKUXTqUFJSlRAKTIPmPKoiIjar949brxB91bbkqdUsDTYmROtUnC2SOW 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agOYlboMwpYBjtRRR8K5xxNKT+oeoUtAJhSYqlLd4lpAhCGm4HqgKP3JqjRRQsUSa753lEqg Co4DeV0nFlmizu2Q2tZlhB8UfwgdvKubooouNcXFjibloPt7I2OaG4qo1otKBoZooopNKooo orly6jjJCLW6tLRhAQyLVtzLJPiUCSZPnXL0UUWtVqVYdUcSY1vqU1jmhuIcAIFvQJydSfQ/ lSAlJBG4ooqsw0Ebz7JRJSycuXpM0UVQEjJStPh+zbvsWQy6paU5VGUEToPOti9smnOH2L5w qXcPXJzKJjTXSBRRXofphOwxk2LmyNDPaTP+I8Fo0aTDhHvIvD/Ls48JPiVyriQh1SRsCRTa KKwqwDajgN5WaMl//9k= --------------060500080508060905000309-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21461 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 10:49:03 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 10:49:03 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3201 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 10:49:11 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 10:49:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167Dpx-00082S-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 10:45:37 +0000 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167Dpw-00082N-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 10:45:36 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA61374 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 11:44:53 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20011123114229.30e7c588@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 11:42:29 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re 73kHz Beacon In-reply-to: <002201c172d2$6850a9e0$6f33893e@g3aqc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have been so busy the last 48 hours I hadn't even time to check e-mail, so with some delay my congrtas to Laurie & John for their fine achievement. >One refinement would be for the program (QRS) to leave out the gap when >there is a freq. transition, this would speed things up a bit . I will have >to talk to Rik ON7YD who wrote it. I'll have a look at that. But in fact these gaps are just there to make things a bit convenient (and to give the TX a break), in principle one could do without it is the dotlength in known by the RX. Since 'time is money' - even in QRSS mode - things go fastest if you just leave out the gaps. An alternative would be to have small frequency jump (much smaller than the dot-dash jump) for 2 succesive dots/dashes. Eg : Assume 120 sec/dot and a 1Hz dot/dash shift. If Argo is set at 90 or 120 sec. one can easily see a 0.1Hz jump, so if 2 succesive dots or dashes occur we would have a 0.1Hz jump. No chance to confuse it with the 1Hz dot/dash jump. But this assumes a rather flexible VFO (PLL), so the question is if the efford is worth the advantage ? What say ? 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10152 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 10:14:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 10:14:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 18296 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 10:14:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 10:14:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167DG6-0007we-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 10:08:34 +0000 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167DG5-0007wX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 10:08:33 +0000 Received: from [213.123.10.126] (helo=dave) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 167DFM-0005wl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 10:07:49 +0000 Message-ID: <002801c17407$2954c920$7e0a7bd5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" References: <3BFCF408.308813D9@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: 73 KHZ TA Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 09:58:18 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC May I also add my congratulations to Laurie and the rest - the screenshots this time leave little doubt to the fact it happened! As Mal says, they show that under the right conditions it should be possible with lower power, faster keying etc - and even normal cw, who knows. Interestingly I can only just copy Laurie and/or Peter, their signals are way down on Rugby. But the only antenna I have for 73 these days is a 60ft long wire so entirely my own fault. Very little activity on 136 these days, only one or two stalwarts still at it I am afraid. 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11403 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 09:42:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 09:42:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 26546 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 09:42:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 09:42:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167CkH-0007qb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 09:35:41 +0000 Received: from tms001bb.han.telia.se ([131.115.230.132] helo=tms001bb.tcad.telia.se) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167CkF-0007qV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 09:35:40 +0000 Received: from TMS011MB.tcad.telia.se ([131.115.230.152]) by tms001bb.tcad.telia.se with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.2966); Fri, 23 Nov 2001 10:35:01 +0100 content-class: urn:content-classes:message Subject: LF: SV: T22 - Any info ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 10:35:00 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <51C6B2EFA37ED242B3F0C131C10B108294B060@TMS011MB.tcad.telia.se> Thread-Topic: T22 - Any info ? Thread-Index: AcFz/1JvvW8dEBVuSeWaX7nZdWnuhAAAL62g From: Karl-Arne.A.Markstrom@telia.se To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-OriginalArrivalTime: 23 Nov 2001 09:35:01.0044 (UTC) FILETIME=[1F81C740:01C17402] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello, The TT22 is another 6L6 derived beam tetrode pretty much like the 807, but with higher ratings and 11 mA/V slope, anode dissipation 45 W ICAS and anode voltage 1,25 kV. The TT21 is more common, and differs only by the filament voltage 6,3 V, the TT22 has 12,6 V. The KT88 of audiphile fame is a close relative >From 6 TT22's you should have at least 500 W CW output on 500/2182 kHz if the power supply allows. Take a look at: http://frank.pocnet.net/sheets/126/t/TT21.pdf Hope this helps and 73/ Karl-Arne Markstrom SM0AOM =================== Senior Radio Engineer Maritime Networks Telia Mobile AB Nacka Strand Sweden Phone +46-8-6017171, Mobile phone +46-70-6636575 Fax +46-8-6017959 > -----Ursprungligt meddelande----- > Från: Laken, W.H.P.A. van der (Wil) [SMTP:wil.vanderlaken@organon.com] > Skickat: den 23 november 2001 09:55 > Till: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Ämne: LF: T22 - Any info ? > > Hi folks, > > One of the local amateurs detected a MF transmitter on a scrapyard. > It is equipped with 6 T22 tubes from GEC, but we can not find any > details > for that tube. > Any info available somewhere ? > > Wil (PA0BWL) > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17497 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 09:09:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 09:09:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 26848 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 09:09:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 09:09:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167CHw-0007lG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 09:06:24 +0000 Received: from lycee.ns.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167CHv-0007lB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 09:06:23 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-13-149.easynet.co.uk [212.134.22.149]) by lycee.ns.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 0CC56A120 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 09:05:39 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <003101c173fe$63c18980$951686d4@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011122232343.00a252b0@mail.pncl.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: 73 tests Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 09:07:36 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From G3JKV > G3AQC 72 401.3 1 Hz shift -9.3 dB > G3LDO 72 399.45 -10.0 dB > > Only 0.7 dB difference here so if one is seen the other should be as well. Many thanks to those who sent signal level and frequency reports and pictures. Got the 73kHz transmitter fired up at around 2130UTC after the loading coil problems had been fixed. The main limitation to beaconing is the power supply. My PSU comprises a 70V home made unit, which gives a maximum of 10amps. This supply is stiffened with a bank of UPS computer batteries. This works fine for limited sessions on full power or long sessions at reduced power. It was fine for the T/A 136kHz QSO that only lasted 55mins. For this reason I shut the transmitter down at 0100 last night. I will have to get into propagation studies! Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20652 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 09:02:05 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 09:02:05 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24678 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 09:02:19 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 09:02:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167CAK-0007iY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 08:58:32 +0000 Received: from gate3.oss.akzonobel.nl ([192.87.3.7]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 167CAG-0007iS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 08:58:29 +0000 Received: (from fwmaster@localhost) by gate3.oss.akzonobel.nl (8.9.1a/8.6.12) id JAA24000 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 09:57:09 +0100 (MET) Received: by gate3.oss.akzonobel.nl via smap (V1.3) id sma022508; Fri, 23 Nov 01 09:55:05 +0100 Received: by ras1.oss.akzonobel.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 09:55:05 +0100 Message-ID: <639D20177889D41198A600508BAD3CA1011EF0B8@capella3.oss.akzonobel.nl> From: "Laken, W.H.P.A. van der \(Wil\)" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: T22 - Any info ? Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 09:55:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi folks, One of the local amateurs detected a MF transmitter on a scrapyard. It is equipped with 6 T22 tubes from GEC, but we can not find any details for that tube. Any info available somewhere ? Wil (PA0BWL) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23515 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 02:21:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 02:21:13 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 19914 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 02:21:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 02:21:31 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1675wb-0006vG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 02:19:57 +0000 Received: from host4.mail.vnet.net ([166.82.1.69] helo=host4.ctc.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1675wa-0006vB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 02:19:57 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.181.229]) by host4.ctc.net (InterMail vK.4.03.04.01 201-232-130-101 license 75504bbd3e802bc4034a0097f57d493d) with ESMTP id <20011123021936.KIJK357.host4@att.net> for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 21:19:36 -0500 Message-ID: <3BFDB228.CFCAE1DC@att.net> Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 21:19:20 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" Organization: JDM Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 73kHz Beacon References: <000201c1738a$d4a74e60$2ca3883e@g3aqc> <3BFDA750.B1A2DE7F@ns.sympatico.ca> <003b01c173a2$956f9aa0$4fc928c3@ericadodd> <000f01c173a7$20f8e640$0300a8c0@charter.net> <001401c173a9$ce5308a0$e8ca28c3@ericadodd> <003301c173ba$3ea38660$0300a8c0@charter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I am logging 72.399 to 72.402 tonight. Noise is higher than last night. Probably from the same thunder storm activity John mentioned. So far no signal detected. Dexter, W4DEX John Andrews wrote: > > At 0100, still no sign of any signals. The static crashes are quite loud, > and are wiping out the Loran lines. The only T-storm activity appears to be > over 1600 miles away, but in a direct line off the back of the loop. Will > leave the recording running on G3AQC. > > John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8956 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 01:46:39 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 01:46:39 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15430 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 01:46:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 01:46:36 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1675OV-0006pF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 01:44:43 +0000 Received: from mail9.wlv.netzero.net ([209.247.163.66]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1675OR-0006pA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 01:44:40 +0000 Received: (qmail 5111 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 01:43:52 -0000 Received: from dialup-63.214.113.223.dial1.boston1.level3.net (HELO lazzo) (63.214.113.223) by mail9.wlv.netzero.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 01:43:52 -0000 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20011122204306.013203c8@pop.netzero.net> X-Sender: w1jhj@pop.netzero.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 20:43:06 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Jonathan Jesse" Subject: Re: LF: strange In-reply-to: <3BFD5B13.7F5290D@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I was watching last night and received nil here, same tonight so far. Receiver is an Icom IC-746 with TCXO, antenna is 1 meter active whip at 40 feet. I also have a K9AY 2 loop system but my preamp is optimized for the US allocations at LF. My QTH is about 65 miles south east of John in Plymouth, Massachusetts FN41qw, on the sea coast. The Icom/1 meter whip performed remarkably well last year on the 136 khz TA tests. It hasn't surprised me in the least that John alone received this signal as he constantly hears better than I. He has logged many US "LOWFERS" that I yet have been able to log. 73, Jon W1JHJ At 08:07 PM 11/22/01 +0000, you wrote: >Strangely enough G3AQC is not a strong signal with me either on 136 khz >or 73 khz. >Perhaps the distance between us is critical, or unusual propogation at >the times I have heard his transmission. >Some German and Belgium stations from the Continent are stronger and >much further away, so it does surprise me that he is so strong across >the Atlantic. >I would be interested to hear what sort of antennas both he and John >have been using for their experiments to bridge the Atlantic. Were >others listening or watching and what were their observations? >de G3KEV/SCARBOROUGH/IO94SH ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13096 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 01:18:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 01:18:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 29578 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 01:18:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 01:18:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1674uW-0006lD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 01:13:44 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1674uV-0006l7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 01:13:43 +0000 Received: from [213.1.140.232] (helo=default) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 1674to-0006pW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 01:13:00 +0000 Message-ID: <000501c173bb$f6d7c920$b68701d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Propagation Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 01:11:49 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Guys make the best of it while it lasts, there is an X-Class flare in progress at the moment ( 0100z Fri) according to NOAA and the CME from that will probably arrive in about 2-3 daystime with the LF effects bring felt on propagation about 3 days after that. So dont expect anything too clever after about Thurs 29th...more later. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8794 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 01:06:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 01:06:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 29632 invoked from network); 23 Nov 2001 01:06:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Nov 2001 01:06:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1674iU-0006j5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 01:01:18 +0000 Received: from dc-mx04.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.14] helo=dc-mx04.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1674iS-0006j0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 01:01:17 +0000 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johncellar) by dc-mx04.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 52861216 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 20:06:50 -0500 Message-ID: <003301c173ba$3ea38660$0300a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000201c1738a$d4a74e60$2ca3883e@g3aqc> <3BFDA750.B1A2DE7F@ns.sympatico.ca> <003b01c173a2$956f9aa0$4fc928c3@ericadodd> <000f01c173a7$20f8e640$0300a8c0@charter.net> <001401c173a9$ce5308a0$e8ca28c3@ericadodd> Subject: Re: LF: 73kHz Beacon Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 20:00:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 0100, still no sign of any signals. The static crashes are quite loud, and are wiping out the Loran lines. The only T-storm activity appears to be over 1600 miles away, but in a direct line off the back of the loop. Will leave the recording running on G3AQC. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18119 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 23:47:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 23:47:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 27613 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 23:47:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 23:47:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1673WW-0006Ut-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:44:52 +0000 Received: from dc-mx05.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.15] helo=dc-mx05.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1673WV-0006Uo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:44:51 +0000 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johncellar) by dc-mx05.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 53727683 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 18:49:26 -0500 Message-ID: <002501c173af$9154a840$0300a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000201c1738a$d4a74e60$2ca3883e@g3aqc> <3BFDA750.B1A2DE7F@ns.sympatico.ca> <003b01c173a2$956f9aa0$4fc928c3@ericadodd> <000f01c173a7$20f8e640$0300a8c0@charter.net> <001401c173a9$ce5308a0$e8ca28c3@ericadodd> Subject: Re: LF: 73kHz Beacon Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 18:44:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: About an hour ago (2240), I had clearly received a "G" and part of a "3" on Laurie's frequency. The signal disappeared, and I've seen nothing since. Interesting. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3509 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 23:37:49 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 23:37:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3398 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 23:37:46 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 23:37:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1673Me-0006SS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:34:40 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1673Md-0006SN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:34:39 +0000 Received: from blanch.pncl.co.uk (245.235.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.235.245]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id fAMNXvM20698 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:33:57 GMT Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011122232343.00a252b0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:34:02 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: 73 tests MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 2320; G3AQC 72 401.3 1 Hz shift -9.3 dB G3LDO 72 399.45 -10.0 dB Only 0.7 dB difference here so if one is seen the other should be as well. Go to it, lads! Walter G3JKV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27776 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 23:20:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 23:20:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 8511 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 23:20:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 23:20:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16736r-0006N8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:18:21 +0000 Received: from [212.204.115.10] (helo=hugo.fen-net.de ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16736p-0006N3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:18:20 +0000 Received: from DEFAULT (dialin-nbg-109.fen-net.de [212.204.116.109]) by hugo.fen-net.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id AAA22402 for ; Fri, 23 Nov 2001 00:19:07 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <000901c173ac$7bea3400$6d74ccd4@DEFAULT> From: "Walter" To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: G3AQC / 73KHz Date: Fri, 23 Nov 2001 00:21:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hello Laurie and All,
    see your signal on 72,401.3KHz (?) very strong here in JN59NO. QRN. Good luck.
73 Walter DJ2LF
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26120 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 23:19:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 23:19:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6739 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 23:20:00 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 23:20:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16735y-0006N1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:17:26 +0000 Received: from siaag1ac.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16735x-0006Mw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:17:25 +0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id SAA25871 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 18:16:42 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 18:16:11 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Re: strange To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200111221816_MC3-E7EA-1814@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mal, >I would be interested to hear what sort of antennas both he and John >have been using for their experiments to bridge the Atlantic. Were >others listening or watching and what were their observations? >de G3KEV/SCARBOROUGH/IO94SH< ... I suppose that Laurie had his beam turned to the North-West, and off course you have to consider the dead zone ... 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23698 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 23:18:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 23:18:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 20743 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 23:18:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 23:18:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1672zp-0006ML-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:11:05 +0000 Received: from dc-mx07.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.17] helo=dc-mx07.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1672zo-0006MG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:11:04 +0000 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johncellar) by dc-mx07.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 47701949 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 18:21:04 -0500 Message-ID: <001901c173aa$d92994a0$0300a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000201c1738a$d4a74e60$2ca3883e@g3aqc> <3BFDA750.B1A2DE7F@ns.sympatico.ca> <003b01c173a2$956f9aa0$4fc928c3@ericadodd> <000f01c173a7$20f8e640$0300a8c0@charter.net> <001401c173a9$ce5308a0$e8ca28c3@ericadodd> Subject: Re: LF: 73kHz Beacon Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 18:10:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Peter, I thought that was a typo! > That shows conditions are reasonable Well, they were... right into the middle of Laurie's "3". Haven't seen anything since. John A. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28517 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 23:02:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 23:02:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 23606 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 23:02:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 23:02:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1672pp-0006Ie-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:00:45 +0000 Received: from lycee.ns.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1672po-0006IZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:00:44 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-1-114.easynet.co.uk [195.40.206.114]) by lycee.ns.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id CC7159FA9 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:00:00 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <001401c173a9$ce5308a0$e8ca28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000201c1738a$d4a74e60$2ca3883e@g3aqc> <3BFDA750.B1A2DE7F@ns.sympatico.ca> <003b01c173a2$956f9aa0$4fc928c3@ericadodd> <000f01c173a7$20f8e640$0300a8c0@charter.net> Subject: Re: LF: 73kHz Beacon Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:02:03 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi John, > > > Up and running on 72.339kHz > > That's 72.399, correct? Yes my typo, 72.399kHz > > Not seeing anything there yet, but appear to be in the middle of Laurie's > first "G". That shows conditions are reasonable Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5022 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 22:58:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 22:58:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 15666 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 22:58:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 22:58:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1672m7-0006H0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 22:56:55 +0000 Received: from lycee.ns.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1672m5-0006Gs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 22:56:53 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-3-232.easynet.co.uk [195.40.202.232]) by lycee.ns.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 837F19F88 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 22:56:10 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000e01c173a9$43f85520$e8ca28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000901c173a3$dfa6d240$2774ccd4@DEFAULT> Subject: LF: Re: 73KHz-G3LDO Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 22:58:14 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >Hello Peter and All, > saw your callsign beginning 21.20utc, ufb. QRG 72,399.5KHz (?) >Some QRN. Good luck. >73 Walter DJ2LF Many thanks for the report and the frequency check Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19637 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 22:46:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 22:46:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 6942 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 22:46:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 22:46:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1672a5-0006FF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 22:44:29 +0000 Received: from dc-mx07.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.17] helo=dc-mx07.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1672a4-0006FA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 22:44:28 +0000 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johncellar) by dc-mx07.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 47697696 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 17:54:25 -0500 Message-ID: <000f01c173a7$20f8e640$0300a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000201c1738a$d4a74e60$2ca3883e@g3aqc> <3BFDA750.B1A2DE7F@ns.sympatico.ca> <003b01c173a2$956f9aa0$4fc928c3@ericadodd> Subject: Re: LF: 73kHz Beacon Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 17:43:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Peter, > Up and running on 72.339kHz That's 72.399, correct? Not seeing anything there yet, but appear to be in the middle of Laurie's first "G". John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5898 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 22:18:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 22:18:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 59 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 22:18:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 22:18:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16729C-0006B4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 22:16:42 +0000 Received: from [212.204.115.10] (helo=hugo.fen-net.de ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16729B-0006Az-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 22:16:42 +0000 Received: from DEFAULT (dialin-nbg-039.fen-net.de [212.204.116.39]) by hugo.fen-net.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id XAA19091 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:17:27 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <000901c173a3$dfa6d240$2774ccd4@DEFAULT> From: "Walter" To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: 73KHz-G3LDO Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 23:20:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hello Peter and All,
  saw your callsign beginning 21.20utc, ufb. QRG 72,399.5KHz (?)
Some QRN. Good luck.
73 Walter DJ2LF
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 339 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 22:10:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 22:10:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 11137 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 22:10:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 22:10:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16721q-00068v-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 22:09:06 +0000 Received: from latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.40]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16721p-00068p-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 22:09:05 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-3-222.easynet.co.uk [195.40.202.222]) by latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 07C8D54B28 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 22:08:18 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <003b01c173a2$956f9aa0$4fc928c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000201c1738a$d4a74e60$2ca3883e@g3aqc> <3BFDA750.B1A2DE7F@ns.sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: LF: 73kHz Beacon Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 22:10:24 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Up and running on 72.339kHz on QRSS, 30 sec dots right now 2130UTC Thursday. No problems except for the usual one on 73kHz - no matter how many turns you put on a coil former you never seem to have enough inductance . Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18040 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 20:35:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 20:35:00 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29343 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 20:35:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 20:35:09 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1670Vz-0005vi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 20:32:07 +0000 Received: from smtp1.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.91] helo=smtp2.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1670Vy-0005vd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 20:32:06 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.112.133]) by smtp2.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 16:27:11 -0400 Message-ID: <3BFDA750.B1A2DE7F@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 20:33:05 -0500 From: "john currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 73kHz Beacon References: <000201c1738a$d4a74e60$2ca3883e@g3aqc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Laurie, My sunset is around 2000. That is usually a good time here with no 60 Hz .problems for 2 hours. I hope you can start then in future. I think i saw you last night but not as well as John did . Congratulations . I was looking for freq shift of one Hz from 401 to 402. CUL 73 de John VE1ZJ Laurie Mayhead wrote: > I will run the beacon from here tonight on the same freq. ie 72.401.5khz. > Lets see what happens to the propagation. > 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3282 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 20:13:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 20:13:40 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18060 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 20:13:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 20:13:44 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16709x-0005rq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 20:09:21 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16709w-0005rl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 20:09:20 +0000 Received: from ldsas15-79-130-99.cw-visp.com ([212.137.130.99] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 166zzZ-00047G-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 19:58:37 +0000 Message-ID: <3BFD5B13.7F5290D@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 20:07:47 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: strange Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Strangely enough G3AQC is not a strong signal with me either on 136 khz or 73 khz. Perhaps the distance between us is critical, or unusual propogation at the times I have heard his transmission. Some German and Belgium stations from the Continent are stronger and much further away, so it does surprise me that he is so strong across the Atlantic. I would be interested to hear what sort of antennas both he and John have been using for their experiments to bridge the Atlantic. Were others listening or watching and what were their observations? de G3KEV/SCARBOROUGH/IO94SH From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21144 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 19:26:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 19:26:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 24787 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 19:26:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 19:26:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166zPx-0005kB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 19:21:49 +0000 Received: from cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.173]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166zPw-0005k0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 19:21:48 +0000 Received: from modem-44.dwalin.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.163.44] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 166zPC-000527-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 19:21:02 +0000 Message-ID: <000301c1738a$d599ebc0$2ca3883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 73kHz Tx Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 19:16:37 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John asks for details of the Tx set up here:- This consists of a PLL synthesiser driven by a VXO which can be pulled enough to produce 1-2 cycles frequency shift by a small capacitor and relay. This feeds a Decca transmitter producing about 1000W. This is transformer coupled to a loading coil and variometer with a max inductance of 6.5mH.which resonates the Ant. The Ant is an inv L with a vert. section 50ft high and 600ft of top load (not in a straight line) This is all hung up in trees which tend to absorb about half the power,so the 1000W from the Decca produces about 400mW at the Ant. and about 200mW is radiated. I use QRS by Rik Strobbe to produce the DFCW information. Hope this helps. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3634 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 19:26:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 19:26:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 29708 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 19:26:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 19:26:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166zPx-0005kA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 19:21:49 +0000 Received: from cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.173]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166zPw-0005jz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 19:21:48 +0000 Received: from modem-44.dwalin.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.163.44] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 166zPA-000527-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 19:21:00 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c1738a$d4a74e60$2ca3883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 73kHz Beacon Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 19:02:07 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I will run the beacon from here tonight on the same freq. ie 72.401.5khz. Lets see what happens to the propagation. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13721 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 17:19:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 17:19:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 14388 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 17:19:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 17:19:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166xP4-0005VO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 17:12:46 +0000 Received: from latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.40]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166xP3-0005VJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 17:12:45 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-6-79.easynet.co.uk [195.40.201.79]) by latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 6EA105A125 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 17:09:35 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <001501c17378$d7686f60$4fc928c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001601c17360$6ad0ad80$e572883e@g3aqc> <001701c17365$2bfa4e40$0300a8c0@charter.net> Subject: LF: 73kHz Beacon Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 17:11:34 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Laurie and John and all > > Well I have achieved what I set out to do,so would be happy to stop the > > beacon now if anyone wants to have a go. But I am aware that there are > > others who were looking for my signal, Dex for example.Also there > > propagation issues to investigate ,for example why did'nt Dex see the > > signal,and will conditions hold up much longer. So I am quite happy to > > beacon again for a night or two,unless anyone has any other ideas ? > > You were visible last night from my start at 2300 to about 0500. The best > period of copy was the second one that I posted, roughly centered on 0100, > and there were "ups and downs" all evening. But the amazing thing was that > you never faded out until 0500. All of the IDs were copyable during the > whole session. I suppose that barring any unusual solar activity, this might > continue for a while. > > I will be around during my evening hours through next Monday, and would be > happy to post a message around 0000 as to whether you are visible here, as > an aid to others who may wish to try. I'll just follow your posts about > whether you are operating. I will transmit tonight on 73kHz provided I can get my act together. I have spent the day winding a second booster coil for 73kHz but as yet it is untested. From previous experience I don't anticipate too many problems - and I have several hours before 2300. If any unforeseen problems arise I will post on this reflector. With Argo set to 30 second dots the screen bandwidth is 72.397kHz to 72.403kHz if Laurie's signal is in the centre at 72.401kHz. I have allocated myself the frequency of 72.399kHz and I will be using 30 second dots on QRSS (not DFCW). There is plenty of space in the screen bandwidth for anyone else who wants to join. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24126 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 17:12:01 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 17:12:00 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29411 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 17:12:09 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 17:12:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166xK0-0005UD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 17:07:32 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166xJy-0005U8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 17:07:31 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 166xJE-0001DL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 17:06:44 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 166xI5-0000nf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 17:05:33 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011122163855.00a77b18@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 17:06:39 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: 73k Beacons MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, I would like to try for a T/A signal on 73k, but am somewhat handicapped at the moment because I don't have the cherry picker I have been using to hold my antenna up. The temporary mast I used the other week is significantly lower, and I reckon the ERP I could get is only about 80mW at best. Having said that, this is only 4dB down on what Laurie estimates his signal to be, and the SNR on W1TAG's spectrograms looks quite good, so might well be in with a chance. I won't be around tonight, but if anyone is interested, I can be QRV tomorrow night and over the weekend. Please let me know. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14700 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 16:33:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 16:33:45 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15319 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 16:33:59 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 16:33:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166wjp-0005NC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 16:30:09 +0000 Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.60]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166wjo-0005N6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 16:30:08 +0000 Received: from 66-44-55-162.s416.tnt1.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.55.162] helo=nanandsandy) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #10) id 166wj4-0003M1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 11:29:22 -0500 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 11:29:05 -0500 Message-ID: <01C17348.E4C46400.esanders@erols.com> From: "Nan and Sandy Sanders" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 73khz Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 11:28:54 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The signals did not make it to northern Va. I just got back from checking last nights ARGO files with no luck. I did not start until about 01:30Z after seeing messages on the reflector. John dont feel bad. I still dont understand how my 18 inch long active antenna on top of an office building full of computers can work as well as it does. Sandy WB5MMB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14653 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 16:28:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 16:28:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6679 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 16:28:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 16:28:44 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166wdQ-0005Lu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 16:23:32 +0000 Received: from host3.mail.vnet.net ([166.82.1.68] helo=host3.ctc.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166wdO-0005Lp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 16:23:31 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.181.229]) by host3.ctc.net (InterMail vK.4.03.04.01 201-232-130-101 license 75504bbd3e802bc4034a0097f57d493d) with ESMTP id <20011122162255.OZYZ335.host3@att.net> for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 11:22:55 -0500 Message-ID: <3BFD2653.AC84BF8D@att.net> Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 11:22:43 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" Organization: JDM Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 73 kHz Wednesday night, Take II References: <20011121.200030.-727145.1.riese-k3djc@juno.com> <009201c172f6$273e4c40$0300a8c0@charter.net> <3BFCF4EA.8149DCFF@att.net> <003a01c1735d$a13f0860$0300a8c0@charter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John, Thanks for the explanation. You have always been able to explain deep technical topics in a way I can understand. Now can any Hoover be utilized for this application or do I need to purchase one from RonCoMatic? Dex John Andrews wrote: > > Dex, > > > I just reviewed my overnight screen captures of Laurie's frequency. > > Absolutely nothing received here in North Carolina. John, are you using > > one of those wave magnets antennas I have seen advertised on TV? I > > suspect so since you seem to be sucking up most of Laurie's signal that > > makes it across. > > I'm sorry (and somewhat perplexed) that you didn't hear anything. > > On the other hand, you have come quite close to finding out my method. > Actually, my LF receiving antenna is manufactured by a company called > "Hoover." Think of it as a collection system for very low energy photons. > They are removed from the ether in much the same way that you would remove > dust from a carpet. In fact, to continue the analogy, the bag fills mostly > with things that you want to throw away. But mixed in with them are some > absolutely precious items. The chore is then to dump the bag out and pick up > the good stuff. I have found that when I point my collection system toward > the U.K. on a cold night, I get a higher percentage of that material. An > ingenious fellow in Italy wrote a computer program that allows me to do the > sorting, and it displays the results on a screen as little tracks that look > like they were left by a bird. I then put letters on the screen to identify > which bird made the tracks. > > But to answer your question, I think the motor in my collection system is > too big, and none of the photons are making it past Massachusetts. I > apologize for that, and will shop for a smaller motor. > > And if you will excuse me, it's time to empty the bag again. It's full of > some junk called "Loran." > > John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28216 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 15:51:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 15:51:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 27797 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 15:51:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 15:51:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166w3e-0005G7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 15:46:34 +0000 Received: from dc-mx01.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.11] helo=dc-mx01.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166w3d-0005G2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 15:46:33 +0000 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johnupstairs) by dc-mx01.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 46160154; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:53:18 -0500 Message-ID: <000f01c1736d$53c910c0$0200a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: "Andre Kesteloot" Cc: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <20011121.200030.-727145.1.riese-k3djc@juno.com> <009201c172f6$273e4c40$0300a8c0@charter.net> <3BFCF4EA.8149DCFF@att.net> <003a01c1735d$a13f0860$0300a8c0@charter.net> <3BFD1977.35A63C75@ieee.org> Subject: LF: Re: 73 kHz Wednesday night Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:49:53 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andre, > John, can the AMRAD gang come and camp in your backyard, or shall we all have to > move permanently to Massachusetts :-) You'd hate it! I am as totally perplexed about this as I can be. This is a very ordinary location, about 0.3 mile from the Worcester city line (2nd largest city in MA). It's a residential area - 1/2 acre lot, and IT'S NOISY! I see all these reports from the Lowfer gang about their receptions during the evening hours, and I get nothing but garbage. After midnight, things do calm down, and I've done pretty well with unattended overnight recordings. But here I was last night, copying Laurie like he was just down the road, at 7 PM local time! I expected similar reports from up and down the east coast of the U.S. Nothing. So, you're welcome to pitch tents in the limited space, but there are more pieces to this puzzle than we've found yet. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16702 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 15:26:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 15:26:19 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10934 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 15:26:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 15:26:24 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166vhE-0005C6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 15:23:24 +0000 Received: from out4.prserv.net ([32.97.166.34] helo=prserv.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166vhC-0005C1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 15:23:23 +0000 Received: from ieee.org (slip-32-102-142-207.md.us.prserv.net[32.102.142.207]) by prserv.net (out4) with SMTP id <2001112215223020401rkeioe>; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 15:22:32 +0000 Message-ID: <3BFD1977.35A63C75@ieee.org> Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:27:51 -0500 From: "Andre Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" , "John Andrews W1TAG" , "lf-amrad" Subject: LF: 73 kHz Wednesday night References: <20011121.200030.-727145.1.riese-k3djc@juno.com> <009201c172f6$273e4c40$0300a8c0@charter.net> <3BFCF4EA.8149DCFF@att.net> <003a01c1735d$a13f0860$0300a8c0@charter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John Andrews wrote: > Dex, > > > I just reviewed my overnight screen captures of Laurie's frequency. > > Absolutely nothing received here in North Carolina. John, are you using > > one of those wave magnets antennas I have seen advertised on TV? I > > suspect so since you seem to be sucking up most of Laurie's signal that > > makes it across. > > I'm sorry (and somewhat perplexed) that you didn't hear anything. > > On the other hand, you have come quite close to finding out my method. > Actually, my LF receiving antenna is manufactured by a company called > "Hoover." Think of it as a collection system for very low energy photons. > They are removed from the ether in much the same way that you would remove > dust from a carpet. [...] > John Andrews, W1TAG Shades of the old black & white film "Our Man in Havana" with Alec Guiness? Heartiest congratulations to John W1TAG and Laurie G3AQC for a fantastic achievement. John, can the AMRAD gang come and camp in your backyard, or shall we all have to move permanently to Massachusetts :-) 73 André N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25158 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 14:54:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 14:54:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 12673 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 14:54:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 14:54:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166vDA-00056n-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:52:20 +0000 Received: from dc-mx04.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.14] helo=dc-mx04.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166vD9-00056i-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:52:19 +0000 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johncellar) by dc-mx04.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 52737183 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:57:52 -0500 Message-ID: <001701c17365$2bfa4e40$0300a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001601c17360$6ad0ad80$e572883e@g3aqc> Subject: LF: Re: 73kHz Beacon Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:51:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Laurie, > Well I have achieved what I set out to do,so would be happy to stop the > beacon now if anyone wants to have a go. But I am aware that there are > others who were looking for my signal, Dex for example.Also there > propagation issues to investigate ,for example why did'nt Dex see the > signal,and will conditions hold up much longer. So I am quite happy to > beacon again for a night or two,unless anyone has any other ideas ? You were visible last night from my start at 2300 to about 0500. The best period of copy was the second one that I posted, roughly centered on 0100, and there were "ups and downs" all evening. But the amazing thing was that you never faded out until 0500. All of the IDs were copyable during the whole session. I suppose that barring any unusual solar activity, this might continue for a while. I will be around during my evening hours through next Monday, and would be happy to post a message around 0000 as to whether you are visible here, as an aid to others who may wish to try. I'll just follow your posts about whether you are operating. And a couple of the guys over here have asked about your transmitting setup on 73 kHz. If you could provide that info, I'll pass it on. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4610 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 14:20:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 14:20:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 29464 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 14:20:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 14:20:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166ug5-00051p-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:18:09 +0000 Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166ug4-00051k-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:18:08 +0000 Received: from modem-101.anguirel.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.114.229] helo=g3aqc) by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 166ufN-0003nE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:17:25 +0000 Message-ID: <001601c17360$6ad0ad80$e572883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 73kHz Beacon Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 14:16:41 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, Well I have achieved what I set out to do,so would be happy to stop the beacon now if anyone wants to have a go. But I am aware that there are others who were looking for my signal, Dex for example.Also there propagation issues to investigate ,for example why did'nt Dex see the signal,and will conditions hold up much longer. So I am quite happy to beacon again for a night or two,unless anyone has any other ideas ? Thanks for all the messages 73s Laurie.. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5776 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 14:01:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 14:01:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 3629 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 14:01:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 14:01:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166uMw-0004xL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 13:58:22 +0000 Received: from dc-mx01.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.11] helo=dc-mx01.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166uMu-0004xF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 13:58:21 +0000 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johncellar) by dc-mx01.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 46137940; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:05:05 -0500 Message-ID: <003a01c1735d$a13f0860$0300a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" Cc: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <20011121.200030.-727145.1.riese-k3djc@juno.com> <009201c172f6$273e4c40$0300a8c0@charter.net> <3BFCF4EA.8149DCFF@att.net> Subject: Re: LF: 73 kHz Wednesday night, Take II Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 08:57:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dex, > I just reviewed my overnight screen captures of Laurie's frequency. > Absolutely nothing received here in North Carolina. John, are you using > one of those wave magnets antennas I have seen advertised on TV? I > suspect so since you seem to be sucking up most of Laurie's signal that > makes it across. I'm sorry (and somewhat perplexed) that you didn't hear anything. On the other hand, you have come quite close to finding out my method. Actually, my LF receiving antenna is manufactured by a company called "Hoover." Think of it as a collection system for very low energy photons. They are removed from the ether in much the same way that you would remove dust from a carpet. In fact, to continue the analogy, the bag fills mostly with things that you want to throw away. But mixed in with them are some absolutely precious items. The chore is then to dump the bag out and pick up the good stuff. I have found that when I point my collection system toward the U.K. on a cold night, I get a higher percentage of that material. An ingenious fellow in Italy wrote a computer program that allows me to do the sorting, and it displays the results on a screen as little tracks that look like they were left by a bird. I then put letters on the screen to identify which bird made the tracks. But to answer your question, I think the motor in my collection system is too big, and none of the photons are making it past Massachusetts. I apologize for that, and will shop for a smaller motor. And if you will excuse me, it's time to empty the bag again. It's full of some junk called "Loran." John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25376 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 12:54:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 12:54:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4944 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 12:54:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 12:54:53 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166tLS-0004ly-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 12:52:46 +0000 Received: from host4.mail.vnet.net ([166.82.1.69] helo=host4.ctc.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166tLR-0004lt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 12:52:46 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.181.229]) by host4.ctc.net (InterMail vK.4.03.04.01 201-232-130-101 license 75504bbd3e802bc4034a0097f57d493d) with ESMTP id <20011122125217.IGEI357.host4@att.net>; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 07:52:17 -0500 Message-ID: <3BFCF4EA.8149DCFF@att.net> Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 07:51:54 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" Organization: JDM Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, "W1TAG" Subject: Re: LF: 73 kHz Wednesday night, Take II References: <20011121.200030.-727145.1.riese-k3djc@juno.com> <009201c172f6$273e4c40$0300a8c0@charter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > John Andrews wrote: > > I'll be amazed if someone else doesn't copy this tonight! I just reviewed my overnight screen captures of Laurie's frequency. Absolutely nothing received here in North Carolina. John, are you using one of those wave magnets antennas I have seen advertised on TV? I suspect so since you seem to be sucking up most of Laurie's signal that makes it across. Dexter From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15942 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 12:53:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 12:53:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3361 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 12:53:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 12:53:14 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166tId-0004kw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 12:49:51 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166tIc-0004kr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 12:49:50 +0000 Received: from ldsas17-81-132-65.cw-visp.com ([212.137.132.65] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 166t8D-000121-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 12:39:06 +0000 Message-ID: <3BFCF408.308813D9@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 12:48:08 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: 73 KHZ TA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Well done Laurie and John and full marks for Perseverance, it paid off and I did say in the past it was just a matter of time on both 73 khz and 136khz, when others were saying it was not possible, and 73 khz in particular was only any good for very local qso's. Again I would say it can also be done on normal hand sent CW at a sensible speed of a few wpm, favourable propagation and the max permitted power. A little more power like the ZL 5 watts might make it a regular occurance to make a contact across the Atlantic and beyond. Sitting up all night every night could be the biggest problem!!!!!!!!! It might be worth trying during daytime or early evening. 73 de G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24568 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 10:56:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 10:56:32 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 14877 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 10:56:39 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 10:56:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166rUg-0004We-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:54:10 +0000 Received: from ewey-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.191] helo=ewey.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166rUf-0004WX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:54:10 +0000 Received: from goatee.excite.com ([199.172.157.31]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20011122105254.FMUN24685.ewey.excite.com@goatee.excite.com> for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 02:52:54 -0800 Message-ID: <211408.1006426374785.JavaMail.imail@goatee.excite.com> Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 02:52:52 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 73 kHz Wednesday night, Take II MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender-Ip: 213.104.150.89 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is really one for the record books! It certainly justifies the retention of 73kHz and even the professionals are probably learning something from it. The chances of making it from ZL to EU having suddenly increased. IMO we still have a lot to learn about what is possible at LF and it sure is fun finding out. If we went to even longer dot lengths, would global transmission become possible even during daylight hours? To speed things up simultaneous transmissions could be made on different frequencies of segments of the message. Congrats to John and Laurie. John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ http://inbox.excite.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26090 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 10:36:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 10:36:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 25559 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 10:37:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 10:37:01 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166r77-0004TB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:29:49 +0000 Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166r76-0004T6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:29:48 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v5.0.0.R) for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:21:19 +0000 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:21:11 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: 73 kHz Wednesday night, Take II Message-ID: <3BFCD197.26380.4052C3@localhost> In-reply-to: <009201c172f6$273e4c40$0300a8c0@charter.net> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Congratulations to John and Laurie. Anyone who has tried 73kHz will tell you how much more difficult it is than 136kHz so this is a superb achievement. It was a product of teamwork, perseverance and skill. What's more, they just went out and did it - rather than debate theory. This should be an inspiration to us all. How about some new stations running 136kHz tests this winter? Last season 12 European stations made it across the Atlantic. Even I managed it with just 125mW ERP. There's plenty of scope for more activity on both sides of the pond. I am happy to coordinate frequencies as last year if that is needed. Go for it! Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29383 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 10:09:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 10:09:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 29905 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 10:10:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 10:10:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166qkh-0004Pi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:06:39 +0000 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166qkf-0004Pd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:06:38 +0000 Received: from [213.122.46.4] (helo=kevin) by protactinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #8) id 166qjy-0000Gq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:05:54 +0000 Message-ID: <008b01c1733d$6e58d7c0$2c2c7ad5@kevin> From: "Kevin Ravenhill" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: 73kHz transatlantic Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 10:05:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit I would like to add my congratulations to the others - nice work Laurie and John! Although this feat could not of course have been achieved with normal speed CW at anywhere near our permitted ERP levels, from the clarity of the copy at John's end I am now wondering how much ERP would actually be required to cross the pond under "absolutely ideal" conditions - although having the persistence to wait for these is another matter altogether! I suspect that condx would have to have been near-ideal for this attempt anyway. So, how about 136kHz transatlantic attempts using progressively lower powers? Just an idle thought :-) Regards, Kevin G1HDQ. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9993 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 09:49:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 09:49:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9169 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 09:50:00 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 09:50:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166qNU-0004LA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:42:40 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166qNR-0004L5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:42:37 +0000 Received: from blanch.pncl.co.uk (141.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.141]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id fAM9fqk13454 for ; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:41:52 GMT Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011122091528.00a2d070@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 09:41:43 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: 73 Transatlantic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------030902020102030106020700" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030902020102030106020700 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Laurie,

My congrats, too.
Might like to see what your sig  looked like "locally" - I'm only 63 kms from you.
Taken this a.m. just as you switched off at 0712.  Time span of graph about 2 hours.
Spectran gave peak freqs of 797.32 and 797.38 so frequency shift was 0.06 Hz.
This close you were easily audible and sig was S9+10 on main rx whatever that means.
Rugby TTY on 73.5 was 9+40 for comparison.
Main Rx set to 72 299.0 Hz;  250 Hz bw.  CW note set to 900 Hz exactly
so this would make ur freq 72 401.68/62 Hz

4ff296.jpg

Walter G3JKV

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8T/gl4e0P9iDTdI+EXxg/ao+HHjrwfo37fmo+NP22vC3hX9mv43+P/2f7P4neLP2NLH9lHS7 bwr4f+Ifjbwx4O1e2XWPj3Dp2geB/iZ4Z1yLxB4i1e40vw3rgB+r9FFFAH+APRRRQAUUUUAF FFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRR QAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAV/U7/waKa18fdB/wCCknxtvP2c/hp8H/ip42k/ Yg+JNtqnh741/HHxp8AfCtn4Vf48/s1S32s6f4x8C/s9ftKavqXiC31eHQ7G18M3HgXSdOvN O1HVdUm8WWNzo1no+u/yxV/X7/wZU/8AKU34+f8AZgHxT/8AWiv2VaAP9Dz41fB34p/tAaP+ yHpnjC1+H/hvw/4Q/aA+FHx0/as+G+meMPEfiTR9Y/4U34E8bfE/4ZeFvhb8QD8PfBnijxL/ AMK3/bn8P/szfFLT9b1HQvg3/wAJ34E+F2u6f4x0hfD/AIk8QfCHxb8v/tX/ALDHir9p39pX 4YeNvEPwF/Yg1XSPh18YP2V/iz4F/bO1nRNRg/ba+CPhX9mb43+AP2hLz9n/AMJ+Hb74R+Mb bx94f+KPjbwH4x8O3PxN0f8Aac/Z+07wZ4H/AGh/E1pL8B/Her/C/VNQ/aE/V+igD8Qf+Cf/ APwTj+Kf7DOsfDGDwF8If2QPhn4f+DH7P/hv9l/xZqfwN8XeI/BWsft/7/Hf7P2n3P7Z37Vm haN+zV4TsvBP7QHwc+GXwm+Lfi74U/DDUvEX7VX/AAkXjv8Aai+Kfw6k/aY+Ffh+fxN8UviL 9P8A/DOPx98R/tD/AAMm8Q+EP2YPh7+z5+zD+0/8c/2sfAvjL4N6v400j4hfF/xV8bPhJ+1H 8L7zwV4+/Z2vvhraeCfhv4gFz+154x+IHxQ+P+j/ALSXxT1H40/Ez4eXvjeX4MfDuT4+6pov wU/R+igAooooA//Z --------------030902020102030106020700-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10187 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 07:26:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 07:26:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21863 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 07:27:05 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 07:27:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166oB2-00046Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 07:21:40 +0000 Received: from siaag1af.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.8]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166oB0-00046T-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 07:21:39 +0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1af.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id CAA03725 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 02:20:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 22 Nov 2001 02:20:44 -0500 From: "Holger 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: Re: LF: 73 kHz Wednesday night To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200111220220_MC3-E7CC-4681@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Laurie congratulations to you and John! I remember that some time ago everybody were surprised that 73 kHz signals made it over to the continent ... and now accross the pnd! Great ... (does that give us some hope that our tiny little German 8900 Hz signals one day will make it further than a couple of kilometers ...?)! By the way, despite the fact that your antenna was pointing to the U.S., (hi), I copied your 72.401 kHz signal pretty well tonight here ein Germany, very close to be able to hear them. I would love to conduct a crossband 73 kHz/136 kHz Slow-CW QSO with you soon, 3 second dots would do. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18810 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 02:38:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 02:38:46 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3698 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 02:38:53 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 02:38:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166jiS-0003cd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 02:35:52 +0000 Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.163]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166jiQ-0003cX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 02:35:51 +0000 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.a2.1ce05b4c (660) for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:35:05 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:35:05 EST Subject: Re: LF: 73 kHz Wednesday night To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 10505 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Well done John & Laurie.

A stunning example of determination and perseverance.
Totally amazing.


73

David  G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 273 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 02:31:21 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 02:31:21 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 13237 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 02:31:15 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 02:31:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166jbG-0003bZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 02:28:26 +0000 Received: from galahad.joust.net ([63.108.136.2] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166jbF-0003bU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 02:28:26 +0000 Received: from benny-hill (p2-138-012.joust.net [63.108.138.12]) by galahad.joust.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id fAM2Rb402854 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:27:38 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <200111220227.fAM2Rb402854@galahad.joust.net> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:26:37 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Steve Dove" Subject: Re: LF: 73 kHz Wednesday night, Take II X-Mailer: Opera 5.02 build 856a X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi John, Stunning! Fabulous job! Cheers, Steve 11/21/2001 3:36:48 PM, "John Andrews" wrote: > > > > > > > > > > > > Below is a screen shot of G3AQC on 72.4013 kHz taken at W1TAG on > 21Nov01 from about 0025 to 0120 UTC. This is from ARGO, in 90 > sec/dot mode. I tried 120 sec/dot, but there was blurring > between successive elements on a line. The 90 sec version is > much clearer, though there isn't as much vertical separation > between the dots and dashes. The "799.5" line represents 72.4015 > kHz. Dashes are 0.1 Hz higher in frequency than dots. > > > I'll be amazed if someone else doesn't copy this tonight! > > John Andrews, W1TAG FN42ch > > IMAGE > > AQC-4.jpg From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16277 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 02:05:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 02:05:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 23885 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 02:06:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 02:06:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166jBs-0003YS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 02:02:12 +0000 Received: from dc-mx03.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.13] helo=dc-mx03.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166jBr-0003YN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 02:02:11 +0000 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johncellar) by dc-mx03.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 23107997 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:08:27 -0500 Message-ID: <00b201c172f9$95b3db60$0300a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <20011121.200030.-727145.1.riese-k3djc@juno.com> <009201c172f6$273e4c40$0300a8c0@charter.net> Subject: LF: Re: 73 kHz Wednesday night, Take II Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:01:22 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Correction: 22 November, UTC.
 
John Andrews, W1TAG (west side of the Pond...)
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16435 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 01:47:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 01:47:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8200 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 01:47:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 01:47:56 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166iGw-0003Oq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:03:22 +0000 Received: from m11.boston.juno.com ([64.136.24.74]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166iGv-0003Ol-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:03:21 +0000 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"yokUgcxCbtTP7XLrpefewIS9VH/YcmYu5mMGBVeVZErrfZHl40lPCg=="> Received: (from riese-k3djc@juno.com) by m11.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id GLTF9UML; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 20:02:31 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 19:57:38 -0500 Subject: Re: LF: 73 kHz Wednesday night Message-ID: <20011121.200030.-727145.1.riese-k3djc@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "BOB RIESE" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: W O W Bob From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6276 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 01:41:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 01:41:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 6126 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 01:41:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 01:41:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166io8-0003TW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:37:40 +0000 Received: from dc-mx03.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.13] helo=dc-mx03.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166io6-0003TR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:37:38 +0000 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johncellar) by dc-mx03.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 23105248 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 20:43:53 -0500 Message-ID: <009201c172f6$273e4c40$0300a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <20011121.200030.-727145.1.riese-k3djc@juno.com> Subject: LF: 73 kHz Wednesday night, Take II Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 20:36:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------040600060608020809080003" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040600060608020809080003 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Below is a screen shot of G3AQC on 72.4013 kHz taken at W1TAG on 21Nov01 from about 0025 to 0120 UTC. This is from ARGO, in 90 sec/dot mode. I tried 120 sec/dot, but there was blurring between successive elements on a line. The 90 sec version is much clearer, though there isn't as much vertical separation between the dots and dashes. The "799.5" line represents 72.4015 kHz. Dashes are 0.1 Hz higher in frequency than dots.
 
 
I'll be amazed if someone else doesn't copy this tonight!
 
John Andrews, W1TAG  FN42ch
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9H3DuOu4nLWbcckkkK7j9Iy83X38pB1UIPVbOT7E0K6JzcvstIdxv82OlpaSinpqwbHs3DFi cssNeJZIXHVJt3GoWUvdiqrWrV4FYe0sYIB8eulpauKSi2NHWGMmQnZZZpUAXoI25dGpeapW MYlnkjDIOV5n2O7Ae4j46WlrLT6i6l49IXCuKw3B1LNYqGWtedFZiszFSSQO4k6yetmpZZi1 qtVsHbbeRTv9QQdLS1CfMfUFgK4/PyiJ6MdSmkLA9ysSPf03Y6CLbnhDvHKwLNsdum/00tLV aj4X3AK5SCslGKSOtEjspLMNzudvmdfQf9iyMc/GPMSxK0up8bGlpa4PiSqPBrpm8+kS5Yw/ AnEGRoSmO7Ux1meCQqrcjpC7q3KRsfaUHYgjprJ/S3MvCHCvHEeFgijrxcM4vGxwuCyrC81y Dv35iQh6cxPXbffS0teKbomcWZaxVyt6lEF7LI+kDF0pWJbmEa1asvQ795MKg77jYt07iNvU 7ore9+p+mlpaBmfemf8AJwh/xo/9Fb0tLS1vpYOfVyf/2Q== --------------040600060608020809080003-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8921 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 01:21:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 01:21:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 25380 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 01:21:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 01:21:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166iVm-0003Qm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:18:42 +0000 Received: from neptune.imagenisp.com ([204.244.138.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166iVl-0003Qh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:18:41 +0000 Received: from jsm (DEFAULT [204.244.18.80]) by neptune.imagenisp.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id XBJR58QP; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 17:19:02 -0800 Message-ID: <006801c172f3$3feb7720$9a4bfea9@jsm> From: "Steve McDonald" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: 73kHz Beacon Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 17:16:00 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > > > Why not use DFCW like the ZL's, that way both elements are the same short > length? > > VE7SL / Steve oops...another case of foot-in-mouth...my apologies! From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 351 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 01:18:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 01:18:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 23466 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 01:18:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 01:18:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166hJH-0003Hs-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 00:01:43 +0000 Received: from dc-mx07.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.17] helo=dc-mx07.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166hJF-0003Hf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 00:01:41 +0000 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johncellar) by dc-mx07.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 47417987 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 19:11:39 -0500 Message-ID: <003501c172e8$c00de600$0300a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000c01c1727f$179469e0$0994883e@g3aqc> Subject: LF: 73 kHz Wednesday night Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 19:00:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------070307040101050309020401" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070307040101050309020401 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Laurie, et al:
 
OK - Here's one hot off the press from tonight (Wednesday) from 6-7 PM EST.
 
 
 
There's a little receiver warm-up at the start. The 799.5 line would represent 72.4015 kHz. Note the smearing in the "3" toward the end... looks like cndx are deteriorating for the moment.
 
John A.
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C08XdgkPYZHskgj6tMMrNXWICOGUN7xm3/41hjUhnsJHPGXHvBtj46xlJykNI3VK1Sxa6dvK NWjH6zIW0QyNSrVhCVM1dsIDvutVkTxB304zWHrwRHoNIo/iPNrVgcdNPF1IL89dvavafHfV PF1aGhp1weY85UxlIVvyQ++5bl+9pQWZsVYkWxI1VT6xCG/DVgx4bLWqXm1zPy2I09UkJbf6 92OqybO28dO8VQxLv62iT/gDT+ZHHFegqt2SbhS3Vn464abGyyW7wydR4+cGOORhMmwcrzFB v7E8dd24uW+1RTla9eC5+vHXsGdB9TFEP3dcC+TGxPkfKJwzZmlPMMxR3G3efOUG+voWQD3g a8T4jJyyRb8v2zpxcMWlpaWvPNBaWlpaAPldpay6f8WlrbV6E2j/2Q== --------------070307040101050309020401-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 311 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 01:18:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 01:18:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 23463 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 01:18:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 01:18:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166iSL-0003QO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:15:09 +0000 Received: from neptune.imagenisp.com ([204.244.138.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166iSJ-0003QG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:15:07 +0000 Received: from jsm (DEFAULT [204.244.18.80]) by neptune.imagenisp.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id XBJR58N9; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 17:15:26 -0800 Message-ID: <004301c172f2$bf1103e0$9a4bfea9@jsm> From: "Steve McDonald" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <120.77186d9.292d1771@aol.com> <002c01c172a1$c6c6c120$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> <000a01c172a6$7d1ee980$e8ae883e@g3aqc> Subject: Re: LF: Re: 73kHz Beacon Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 17:11:35 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Why not use DFCW like the ZL's, that way both elements are the same short length? VE7SL / Steve > Thanks John, I will go for the complete call now (dont want any criticism !) > Would it not be better to use 90 or even 120sec Argo at your end to ensure > maximum SNR.Alternately I could shorten my dots, that way we could get more > through in a given time .Best to have the same conditions at both ends 73s > Laurie. > ----- Original Message ----- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27099 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 01:18:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 01:18:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 23473 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 01:18:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 01:18:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166gne-00038M-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 23:29:02 +0000 Received: from dc-mx05.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.15] helo=dc-mx05.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166gnd-00038H-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 23:29:01 +0000 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johncellar) by dc-mx05.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 53399937 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:33:35 -0500 Message-ID: <000f01c172e4$2f877140$0300a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000c01c1727f$179469e0$0994883e@g3aqc> Subject: LF: 73 kHz, Take II Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:28:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Laurie, Boy, what a signal here tonight. Will send a screen shot when I get a full screen. At ARGO's 120 sec/dot resolution, that takes a while! John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 516 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 01:16:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 01:16:54 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 25686 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 01:16:49 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 01:16:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166iQf-0003Q9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:13:25 +0000 Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.8]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166iQe-0003Q4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 01:13:24 +0000 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.134.4fed84c (25307) for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 20:12:37 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <134.4fed84c.292dab05@aol.com> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 20:12:37 EST Subject: Re: LF: 73 kHz Wednesday night To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Magnificent! From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17981 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 01:11:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 01:11:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 19649 invoked from network); 22 Nov 2001 01:11:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Nov 2001 01:11:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166hsF-0003Kt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 00:37:51 +0000 Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.105]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166hsD-0003Ko-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Nov 2001 00:37:50 +0000 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.65.1e1d5f0f (17230) for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 19:37:03 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <65.1e1d5f0f.292da2ae@aol.com> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 19:37:02 EST Subject: LF: 73 kHz transatlantic success To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 72 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John, Laurie, excellent! And encouraging for all of us. Congratulations de Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24309 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 21:31:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 21:31:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24195 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 21:31:53 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 21:31:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166epU-0002u7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:22:48 +0000 Received: from smtp2.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.35.138] helo=smtp.wanadoo.nl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166epR-0002u2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:22:45 +0000 Received: from nl9222 (p1154.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.203.135]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id fALLLm815013 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 22:21:48 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <200111212121.fALLLm815013@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 22:22:7 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: micropower X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] X-FoxAttach: C:\My Documents\g3kev.gif MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------000502030107000507080209" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000502030107000507080209 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 11/1/01 6:31:00 PM, you wrote: >The beacon signal on normal cw 135.87 approx very strong and the slow cw >on 137.63 approx also strong. These signals have been copied and >identified aurally without any visual enhancements or computer aids. >Computer visual aids are not necessary to copy 3,10 or 500 second >transmissions at this qth. >Get yourself a proper antenna, a competent cw operator and the rest is >automatic. >No need for expensive computers and hours/days/weeks to complete a qso, >which is dubious anyway, considering that some of the participants >cannot remember their name from one day to the next !!!!!!!! > >G3KEV Mal, Have a look at the attachement anyway. 73 Ko Versteeg, NL9222 [SWL] [Grid: JO22KE - Lat: 52° 12' 15.0"N Long: 04° 51' 40.5"E] Home: http://home.wanadoo.nl/nl9222/index.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------- --------------000502030107000507080209 Content-Type: image/gif; name="g3kev.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="g3kev.gif" R0lGODlh7wEgAPcAAAoVjhIdnw4WqxYjqRQbsxgptSElsSkprSg2liAzqiY2rSlCrRgxtSEx 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21 Nov 2001 21:28:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166eoN-0002tx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:21:39 +0000 Received: from mail3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166eoL-0002ts-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:21:37 +0000 Received: from modem-111.powder-blue-tang.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.51.111] helo=g3aqc) by mail3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 166end-0008A4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:20:54 +0000 Message-ID: <002201c172d2$6850a9e0$6f33893e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re 73kHz Beacon Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 21:20:17 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dex asks "is there any blank time between dashes and dots " the answer is yes, the actual element (dash or dot ) is 120 sec long and the gap or blank time is 40 secs. The FFT program tends to blur this so that it looks like a fade down then up. I could make it longer but the trade off is between readability and transmission time. I think its just about right at a third ie 40 secs.Actually it doesnt matter when there is a freq transition ie between a dash and a dot ,the shift in position is enough to separate the elements, its the gap between two dots or two dashes that is the problem. One refinement would be for the program (QRS) to leave out the gap when there is a freq. transition, this would speed things up a bit . I will have to talk to Rik ON7YD who wrote it. Thanks for listening. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19357 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 20:53:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 20:53:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 19215 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 20:53:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 20:53:28 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166eIh-0002oQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 20:48:55 +0000 Received: from europa.your-site.com ([140.186.45.14]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166eIc-0002oL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 20:48:54 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.181.229]) by europa.your-site.com ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:47:56 -0500 Message-ID: <3BFC1300.B9B3B91B@att.net> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:48:00 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" Organization: JDM Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: Measuring Q References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C636@PDW-MAIL-R1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Can the -3db bandwidth measurement of the complete antenna system be used to determine the Q of the coil? Dexter Talbot Andrew wrote: > > If you use a larger capacitance resonance will naturally be at a lower > frequency so you will be measuring the Q there instead. Selectivity will be > higher, but when the bandwidth at the 3dB points is divided into the centre > frequency the Q will still come out at the right value, albeit at this new, > lower, freq. > > Incidently, when measuring low Qs you should use the geometric centre > frequency in this calculation rather than the mid point between the two 3dB > points. ie. Fc = SQRT(Fu * Fl) where Fl and Fu are the 3dB frequencies. > It won't make much difference when the Q is in the hundreds, but will be > noticable when used on small coils. > > Andy 'JNT > > > Is this the right way of going about it? If I use a larger > > capacitor across > > the coil won't this give a sharper selectivity and improved > > apparent Q? > > > > Regards, > > Peter, G3LDO > > > > e-mail > > > > Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2263 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 20:52:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 20:52:40 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26298 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 20:52:52 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 20:52:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166eHu-0002oF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 20:48:06 +0000 Received: from smtp1.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.91] helo=smtp2.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166eHt-0002o9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 20:48:05 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.102.99]) by smtp2.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:34:13 -0400 Message-ID: <3BFC5776.F34D810B@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 20:40:06 -0500 From: "john currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 73 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Congratulations to John es Laurie. Last night had severe 60 troubles. Saw nil Laurie I can change receive freq in about 60 sec so no trouble to monitor 136 es 73 bands. A problem though the version of Argo I'm using has 30 sec dots max so I will copy with that Peter I saw your email too late will look for you also tonight 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5933 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 20:19:24 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 20:19:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15329 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 20:19:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 20:19:28 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166dhO-0002kv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 20:10:22 +0000 Received: from dargolad.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.27]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166dhN-0002kq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 20:10:21 +0000 Received: from srv17slx.esoterica.pt (srv17slx.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.47]) by dargolad.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id fALK9bZ00081 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 20:09:37 GMT Received: from slave-6 (por414.esoterica.pt [195.22.18.115]) by srv17slx.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id fALK9aD22493 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 20:09:36 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20011121201011.008f6c30@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 20:10:11 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: Re: 73kHz Beacon In-reply-to: <000a01c172a6$7d1ee980$e8ae883e@g3aqc> References: <120.77186d9.292d1771@aol.com> <002c01c172a1$c6c6c120$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Many congratulations to Laurie and John and good luck with the full call sign. 73, Brian CT1DRP At 16:05 21/11/2001 -0000, you wrote: >Thanks John, I will go for the complete call now (dont want any criticism !) >Would it not be better to use 90 or even 120sec Argo at your end to ensure >maximum SNR.Alternately I could shorten my dots, that way we could get more >through in a given time .Best to have the same conditions at both ends 73s >Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13365 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 19:46:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 19:46:00 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6623 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 19:46:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 19:46:12 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166dEr-0002go-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 19:40:53 +0000 Received: from europa.your-site.com ([140.186.45.14]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166dEo-0002gj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 19:40:52 +0000 Received: from att.net ([166.82.181.229]) by europa.your-site.com ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 14:39:51 -0500 Message-ID: <3BFC0307.B83CD394@att.net> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 14:39:51 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" Organization: JDM Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.77 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: 73kHz Beacon References: <001101c16f92$664cc4a0$2b99883e@g3aqc> <003901c17287$ebcfcc60$0300a8c0@charter.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Congratulations John and Laurie. I have been watching Laurie's 72 KHz signal also. Last night I saw nothing. On previous nights several times I saw a 120 second line on 72.4014 (dash frequency) but I never saw anything on the dot frequency. Is there any blank time between the dashes and dots? Will be watching again tonight. Dexter John Andrews wrote: > > I did copy Laurie's 72.401 kHz transmission last night, with parts of the > signal being visible from 2330 to 0700 Z. There were half hour periods with > and without recognizable characters. The best copy was from 0022-0052 and > from 0452-0522 Z. For some reason, I got a lot of very clear "A's." The > "Q's" were more difficult! > > I make the dash frequency as 72.4014 kHz. I have sent screen shots directly > to Laurie -- not sure if this reflector would allow them. > > QTH is Holden, Massachusetts (FN42ch), about 80 km west of Boston. > > John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9434 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 19:25:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 19:25:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 18805 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 19:25:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 19:25:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166cuT-0002eO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 19:19:49 +0000 Received: from mail3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166cuR-0002eJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 19:19:48 +0000 Received: from modem-76.durin.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.162.76] helo=g3aqc) by mail3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 166cth-0004A8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 19:19:02 +0000 Message-ID: <000401c172c1$636c96c0$4ca2883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re 73kHz Beacon Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 19:18:10 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi John and all. I will transmit again tonight using 120sec dot DFCW starting at 2300utc.Freq. down a bit ,about 72.4012/3. This time I will be sending full call sign so lets hope for decent condx. Would appreciate all reports. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17432 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 19:02:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 19:02:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26785 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 19:02:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 19:02:51 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166cVr-0002Zx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:54:23 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166cVq-0002Zs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:54:22 +0000 Received: from ldsas20-84-135-51.cw-visp.com ([212.137.135.51] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 166cLV-0004aT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:43:41 +0000 Message-ID: <3BFBF830.25EA2595@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:53:36 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Measuring Q References: <001b01c17220$e9cc8820$531686d4@ericadodd> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: g3ldo wrote: > Recently I described some experiments with multilayer coils based on a Decca > coil. > The resultant coil is now similar to that shown in the LF book, page 13 (See > the second coil back) except my coil has two layers, double wound. I had > been advised by some of you that the Q of a multi-layer coil is low compared > with a single layer solenoid. The question is just how much lower is the Q > and how significant is it in practice. > The coil is at this moment being tested with a full kW on a T/A test and I > get just as good results as I did with the single solenoid although the > single solenoid was a much smaller coil wound with thinner wire. > To progress I need to measure Q. > > It is quite surprising how little there is in general Ham literature on > measuring Hi OM Like I said many times before , one has to rely on past knowledge and experience themselves, and on LF learn from commercial operators who have done it all before. I have not found anything useful in the COMIC, in fact articles published predicted that only a couple of miles or less if you were lucky could be covered on 73 and 136 khz. Others thought different and have proved the point. For experienced proficient radio operators all that is required is a good antenna suitable for the frequency, good operating procedures and be expert at CW and appropriate rf output for the distance to be covered. The coil to which you refer seems to have a very low Q. With 3mm litz wire on a suitable former I would expect at least twice the value you quote. G3KEV > > Q. I found something in the 'ARRL Electronics Data Book' and Wes Hayward's > 'Radio Frequency Design', although the latter is related to filters and > measuring loaded Q. > > I made a test rig up using a signal generator (with frequency counter) and > the Pegelmesser D2155 level meter set on wide band. > I connected the coil under test with a parallel air-spaced capacitor to the > signal generator via a variable capacitor. I coupled the coil to the level > meter with with just a clip on the insulation of the coil. I reduced the > coupling to the signal generator with the variable capacitor to minimum > while maintaining a good signal on the level meter. > The parallel capacitor caused the coil to resonate at 182kHz . Using the > 3dB B/W points (down from resonance) on the meter I measured the Q as 185. > With the variometer in the coil set to minimum the coil resonated at 209kHz > and the measured Q was 167. > > Is this the right way of going about it? If I use a larger capacitor across > the coil won't this give a sharper selectivity and improved apparent Q? > > Regards, > Peter, G3LDO > > e-mail > > Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8710 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 18:55:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 18:55:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 18945 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 18:55:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 18:55:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166cOC-0002Z6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:46:28 +0000 Received: from chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net ([212.135.1.67]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166cOB-0002Z1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:46:27 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-18-242.easynet.co.uk [212.134.224.242]) by chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 854A51D4FFA for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 18:45:41 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <003401c172bd$14691160$f2e086d4@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001101c16f92$664cc4a0$2b99883e@g3aqc> <003901c17287$ebcfcc60$0300a8c0@charter.net> Subject: LF: Re: Re: 73kHz Beacon Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:49:32 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have been out all day and have missed all the excitement! > I did copy Laurie's 72.401 kHz transmission last night, with parts of the > signal being visible from 2330 to 0700 Z. There were half hour periods with > and without recognizable characters. The best copy was from 0022-0052 and > from 0452-0522 Z. For some reason, I got a lot of very clear "A's." The > "Q's" were more difficult! > > I make the dash frequency as 72.4014 kHz. I have sent screen shots directly > to Laurie -- not sure if this reflector would allow them. Well done John & Laurie. I know just how much effort (and loss of sleep) Laurie has put into this project and I am really pleased that it has paid off. The amount of effort on the USA side of the link must have also been considerable. Congratulations to you both. It would be interesting if this siting could be correlated with some propagation information. Is John able to monitor the high power RTTY station at Rugby with some sort of signal level record, such as Alan uses? Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26703 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 17:34:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 17:34:26 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24695 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 17:34:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 17:34:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166bCp-0002Pq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 17:30:39 +0000 Received: from [204.202.140.198] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166bCo-0002Pl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 17:30:38 +0000 Received: from gomailjtp05 ([10.212.0.165]) by mta06.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GN5003JYV9QA8@mta06.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:29:51 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:29:54 -0800 (PST) From: "John Sexton" Subject: Re: LF: Re: 73kHz Beacon To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <1249407.1006363794374.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Well done guys! John, G4CNN -----Original Message----- From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed Nov 21 04:27:44 PST 2001 Subject: LF: Re: 73kHz Beacon >I did copy Laurie's 72.401 kHz transmission last night, with parts of the>signal being visible from 2330 to 0700 Z. There were half hour periods with >and without recognizable characters. The best copy was from 0022-0052 and >from 0452-0522 Z. For some reason, I got a lot of very clear "A's." The >"Q's" were more difficult! > >I make the dash frequency as 72.4014 kHz. I have sent screen shots directly >to Laurie -- not sure if this reflector would allow them. > >QTH is Holden, Massachusetts (FN42ch), about 80 km west of Boston. > >John Andrews, W1TAG > > ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23673 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 17:34:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 17:34:14 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10766 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 17:34:25 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 17:34:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166b8w-0002P1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 17:26:38 +0000 Received: from [204.202.140.198] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166b8v-0002Ov-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 17:26:37 +0000 Received: from gomailjtp05 ([10.212.0.165]) by mta06.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GN5003PZV1B46@mta06.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:24:47 -0800 (PST) Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:24:50 -0800 (PST) From: "John Sexton" Subject: Re: LF: IMAGE Satellite Experiment IMAGE Satellite Experiment To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <1262026.1006363490593.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, Having gone to the trouble to find out when to listen for these transmissions, I thought I would share the results with those who might be interested to listen for the transmissions on VLF and perhaps on 130 kHz. Though whether we have any chance of hearing the latter in Europe I rather doubt. Times when the IMAGE satellite starts to descend from 50 deg North (when VLF Tx turned on), within a Longitude range of +/- 30 degrees. (Sri if you are outside Europe, you will have to go to http://sscweb.gsfc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/sscweb/Locator.cgi and work it out for yourselves) Time GEO yy/mm/dd hh:mm Lat Long 01/11/21 21:14 50.25 -5.73 01/11/24 20:24 50.40 3.86 01/11/27 19:34 50.55 13.43 01/11/30 18:44 50.66 23.00 The VLF transmissions will be 0.125 seconds on, 0.375 seconds off, at 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, and 15 kHz, repeated over and over. Times of closest approach to South Pole. 4 mins before this the VLF Tx will be turned off and transmission will start on 130 and 380 kHz for 8 minutes. yy/mm/dd hh:mm 01/11/21 08:18 01/11/22 12:46 01/11/23 03:00 01/11/23 17:14 01/11/24 07:28 01/11/24 21:42 01/11/25 11:56 01/11/26 02:10 01/11/26 16:24 01/11/27 06:38 01/11/27 20:52 01/11/28 11:06 01/11/29 01:18 01/11/29 15:32 01/11/30 05:46 01/11/30 20:00 01/12/01 10:14 01/12/02 00:28 01/12/02 14:42 01/12/03 04:56 01/12/03 19:10 01/12/04 09:24 01/12/04 23:38 01/12/05 13:52 73, John, G4CNN -----Original Message----- From: "ARi" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue Nov 20 08:51:05 PST 2001 Subject: LF: IMAGE Satellite Experiment IMAGE Satellite Experiment >Dear LF and Natural Radio Observers,> >INSPIRE has arranged to perform experiments to test propagation to the ground from the Radio Plasma Imager >instrument on the IMAGE Satellite over two weeks starting on November 21, 2001. A table at the end gives the >times for the experiments. > >There will be two sets of experiments, at 5-15 kHz (VLF) and at 130 and 380 kHz. The 5-15 kHz experiments will be >performed on the incoming (towards perigee), southward traveling part of every orbit, starting at about the point where >the magnetic field line through the satellite is at about 50 degrees N latitude. They will continue until the the 130 and >380 kHz experiment begins. The 130 and 380 kHz transmissions will begin when the satellite is four minutes before the >closest approach to the South Pole, and continue four minutes past closest approach. >You could be prime observers for the VLF experiments! > >The VLF transmissions will be 0.125 seconds on, 0.375 seconds off, at 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, and 15 kHz, repeated over and >over. > >Details of the satellite orbit, both graphical and tabular, may be found at the Satellite Situation Center web site: > >http://sscweb.gsfc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/sscweb/Locator.cgi > >and > >http://www.lwca.org/mb/msg/1462.htm > >ARi. > > ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12975 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 16:53:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 16:53:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 1289 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 16:53:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 16:53:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166aWJ-0002Ic-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:46:43 +0000 Received: from antiochus-fe0.ultra.net ([146.115.8.188]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166aWH-0002IV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:46:42 +0000 Received: from comrex (207-172-245-143.s905.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.245.143]) by antiochus-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n20340/mtc.v2) with SMTP id LAA19409 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 11:45:45 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004c01c172ac$5ca45720$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <120.77186d9.292d1771@aol.com> <002c01c172a1$c6c6c120$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> <000a01c172a6$7d1ee980$e8ae883e@g3aqc> Subject: Re: LF: Re: 73kHz Beacon Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 11:47:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Laurie, > Thanks John, I will go for the complete call now (dont want any criticism !) > Would it not be better to use 90 or even 120sec Argo at your end to ensure > maximum SNR.Alternately I could shorten my dots, that way we could get more > through in a given time .Best to have the same conditions at both ends 73s Stick with the 120 sec elements. If you are going to send the complete call, I will probably shift to ARGO's 120 sec mode to allow more info on the screen. As I recall, the 90 sec screen has the same frequency spread, with just a slower time scale. John A. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20511 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 16:11:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 16:11:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 16397 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 16:11:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 16:11:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166Zu6-0002Bh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:07:14 +0000 Received: from imailg3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.181]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166Zu5-0002Bc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:07:13 +0000 Received: from modem-79.dwalin.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.163.79] helo=g3aqc) by imailg3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 166ZtO-0003GU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:06:31 +0000 Message-ID: <000a01c172a6$7d1ee980$e8ae883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <120.77186d9.292d1771@aol.com> <002c01c172a1$c6c6c120$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> Subject: Re: LF: Re: 73kHz Beacon Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:05:58 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks John, I will go for the complete call now (dont want any criticism !) Would it not be better to use 90 or even 120sec Argo at your end to ensure maximum SNR.Alternately I could shorten my dots, that way we could get more through in a given time .Best to have the same conditions at both ends 73s Laurie. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Andrews" To: Sent: Wednesday, November 21, 2001 3:32 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: 73kHz Beacon > David, > > >Errr, don't you need a complete call for a 'world record' ? > >However, that must be just a matter of a few more nights. > > Not a bad point. Conditions were such that a full call sign should have been > possible. Perhaps Laurie should give that a try. I was running half-hour > screen captures with ARGO set for 60 sec. dots, and that gave some overlap > between screens to keep from splitting the IDs. > > John Andrews, W1TAG > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11055 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 16:07:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 16:07:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 11785 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 16:07:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 16:07:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166Zon-0002Af-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:01:45 +0000 Received: from imailg3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.181]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166Zom-0002AW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:01:44 +0000 Received: from modem-232.eglantine.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.174.232] helo=g3aqc) by imailg3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 166Zo5-000257-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:01:01 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c172a5$b8e3ed40$e8ae883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 73kHz Beacon Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:00:11 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Many thanks for the congratulations. It has been a long haul involving 3 transmitters,and many nights.My power last night using the Crawley club Decca 200mW ! I transmitted AQC only since I thought that would be good enough for positive identification,however if necessesary I will go to the complete call. Andy my locator IO90nt, NGR- SU818019, hope this helps. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28581 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 16:02:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 16:02:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 6847 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 16:02:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 16:02:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166Zcd-00025w-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:49:11 +0000 Received: from antiochus-fe0.ultra.net ([146.115.8.188]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166Zcc-00025r-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:49:10 +0000 Received: from comrex (207-172-216-162.s670.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.216.162]) by antiochus-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n20340/mtc.v2) with SMTP id KAA26760 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:48:19 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001a01c172a4$5503cd00$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C63D@PDW-MAIL-R1> Subject: LF: Re: RE: Re. 73kHz Beacon Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:50:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andy, > What's your locator, or preferably NGR, Laurie, and your eight/ten digit > locator (or Lat / Long ) if you have it John I'm at work -- have the lat/long info at home, and can send it tonight. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25207 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 16:01:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 16:01:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 5582 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 16:01:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 16:01:24 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166ZgT-000273-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:53:09 +0000 Received: from pop3.iwvisp.com ([198.77.196.6] helo=mail.iwvisp.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166ZgQ-00026y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:53:06 +0000 Received: from iwvisp.com ([198.77.198.133]) by mail.iwvisp.com with ESMTP (IOA-IPAD 2.54/96) id 4571900; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 07:52:16 -0800 Message-ID: <3BFBCC5F.5B6C7087@iwvisp.com> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 07:46:39 -0800 From: "DrPepper" Organization: ACI International X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "=?iso-8859-1?B?Sm9z6SBkZSBT4Q==?=" Cc: "Juha Tuovinen" , dx-news@pro-usa.net, islands@forum.radio-amador.net, dx@qth.net, rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: [Dx] Phone line RFI References: <008901c17206$5a4005c0$b59afea9@telepac.pt> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Well, Jose, ,, , We need a little more info, , , , , , , , , , , , , , What kind of antenna are you using? What tuner are you using? I ran into the same problem on 40 meters, and discovered that I was running a high VSWR. When I solved the vswr problem, I solved the RFI problem. I also had a problem on my neighbors cable TV when I ran two meters. I called the cable company, they replaced the cable drop, and problem solved. -- Dr Pepper aka WB6GKI in the High Desert of California. Check out my LIVE Hamshack Cam at: http://www1.iwvisp.com/DrPepper/ham/ham.htm =================================== José de Sá wrote: > This is not probably much DX related and I really > apologise for that. > I just find out today that in freq. below 28 Mhz > (when using highpower ) I make > a terrible telephone line interference in my neighbours > telephones, they can't hear a thing only my voice in the > phone. > I would really apreciate your help and advice concerning > this problem, mostly if you already had a similar situation > and what you made to solve it. > > Looking for a reply. > 73 > > Jose CT1EEB > > Your Moderator is Larry Wilson KE1HZ > Email: owner-dx@qth.net > --- > Submissions dx@qth.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21456 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 15:58:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 15:58:03 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 7455 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 15:58:19 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 15:58:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166ZfF-00026n-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:51:53 +0000 Received: from mta02.btfusion.com ([62.172.195.247] helo=btclick.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166ZfD-00026Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:51:51 +0000 Received: from virgin.net ([213.121.109.190]) by btclick.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.05) with ESMTP id GN5QOA05.P18 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:50:34 +0000 Message-ID: <3BFBCCE6.DBA54B1@virgin.net> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:48:54 +0000 From: "Stewart Bryant" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: The Rise and Fall of the Decca Navigator System Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit This lecture is part of the IEE Surrey Branch Evening Lecture series
and may be of interest to members on the list. All are welcome.

Stewart G3YSX

Wednesday 5 December 2001 7.00 for 7.30pm

        The Rise and Fall of the Decca Navigator System

          Walter Blanchard (President, Royal Institute of Navigation, 1993-1996)

          Wates House, University of Surrey

          The Decca Navigator was the world's most successful
          commercially operated radio navaid.  From 1946 to 2000 it
          provided over 40,000 ships and aircraft with a major means
          of navigation.  Originally used for the D-Day landings, this low
          frequency phase-comparison hyperbolic navaid was entirely
          developed in the UK, and at one time covered most of the
          major shipping areas of the world.  Although not successful in
          the air the cockpit presentation methods invented by the
          Decca company were the forerunners of the of the modern
          "glass cockpit"  - Decca having designed the first airborne
          digital computer for civil use.  The talk will describe the early
          Decca  trials in wartime, its use for D-Day, and subsequent
          history until its closure.

        For further information contact: Stewart Bryant. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7623 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 15:42:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 15:42:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 16448 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 15:42:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 15:42:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166ZKv-00023i-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:30:53 +0000 Received: from antiochus-fe0.ultra.net ([146.115.8.188]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166ZKu-00023d-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:30:52 +0000 Received: from comrex (207-172-216-162.s670.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.216.162]) by antiochus-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n20340/mtc.v2) with SMTP id KAA08426 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:30:03 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002c01c172a1$c6c6c120$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <120.77186d9.292d1771@aol.com> Subject: Re: LF: Re: 73kHz Beacon Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:32:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: David, >Errr, don't you need a complete call for a 'world record' ? >However, that must be just a matter of a few more nights. Not a bad point. Conditions were such that a full call sign should have been possible. Perhaps Laurie should give that a try. I was running half-hour screen captures with ARGO set for 60 sec. dots, and that gave some overlap between screens to keep from splitting the IDs. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25089 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 15:35:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 15:35:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 9493 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 15:35:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 15:35:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166ZGj-00022Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:26:33 +0000 Received: from antiochus-fe0.ultra.net ([146.115.8.188]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166ZGh-00022L-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:26:31 +0000 Received: from comrex (209-122-233-103.s1913.apx2.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.233.103]) by antiochus-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n20340/mtc.v2) with SMTP id KAA21068 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:25:39 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002701c172a1$2991b2c0$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000201c1729a$770c2820$b9c0883e@g3aqc> Subject: LF: Re: Re. 73kHz Beacon Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:27:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Laurie, Conditions were considerably better last night on 72 kHz than anything I've seen so far this season. Hopefully, if we can stay away from unusual solar activity, we may be able to continue the trend for a while. I started the receiver about 2230, and checked it just after 2300 before going out to a meeting. It was obvious by then that I was seeing more detail through the noise than I had on all the earlier attempts. And I do want to point out to the North American guys that my receiving location is hardly ideal. Others should be able to better this distance if conditions hold up. Anyway, I'd like to thank you, Laurie, for sticking with the transmitting, hardly a glorious endeavor (whoops, endeavour). There's no great scientific accomplishment here, but it definitely is fun! John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29202 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 15:16:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 15:16:34 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 21033 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 15:16:38 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 15:16:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166Z03-0001zR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:09:19 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166Z02-0001zM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:09:18 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id PAA18784; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:17:04 GMT Received: (qmail 17567 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 15:59:45 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 15:59:45 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id PAA04735; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:33:52 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma004720; Wed, 21 Nov 01 15:33:24 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:12:30 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:08:10 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C63D@PDW-MAIL-R1> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re. 73kHz Beacon Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:08:04 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: What's your locator, or preferably NGR, Laurie, and your eight/ten digit locator (or Lat / Long ) if you have it John Andy > -- > This of course must be an amateur distance record for 73kHz > can anyone work out the distance for us please? > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29758 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 15:14:16 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 15:14:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18560 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 15:14:16 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 15:14:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166YuT-0001yu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:03:33 +0000 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166YuR-0001yp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:03:32 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA43322 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:02:48 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20011121160026.37e7f676@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 16:00:26 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re. 73kHz Beacon In-reply-to: <000201c1729a$770c2820$b9c0883e@g3aqc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 14:39 21/11/01 -0000, you wrote: >This of course must be an amateur distance record for 73kHz >can anyone work out the distance for us please? Congrats to both, distance IO90NT -> FN42Ch is 5291km 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6985 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 14:51:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 14:51:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26893 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 14:51:53 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 14:51:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166YbK-0001tP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 14:43:46 +0000 Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.162]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166YbJ-0001tK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 14:43:45 +0000 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.120.77186d9 (18254) for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:42:57 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <120.77186d9.292d1771@aol.com> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:42:57 EST Subject: Re: LF: Re: 73kHz Beacon To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 10505 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit In a message dated 11/21/01 2:08:06 PM GMT Standard Time, mike.dennison@rsgb.org.uk writes:


Congratulations to John and Laurie. I make this a new world one-way record
for the 73kHz band at about 5300km (I will calculate the exact distance
tonight).


Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT)
http://www.lf.thersgb.net




Errr, don't you need a complete call for a 'world record'  ?

However, that must be just a matter of a few more nights.  

Well done Laurie.

David  G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27772 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 14:49:14 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 14:49:14 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24725 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 14:49:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 14:49:26 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166Yc1-0001tZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 14:44:29 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166Yc0-0001tU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 14:44:28 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 166YbK-0005xz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 14:43:46 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 166YaE-0000s0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 14:42:38 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011121143858.00a80a08@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 14:43:40 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: Re: 73kHz Beacon In-reply-to: <3BFBB014.896.20555E@localhost> References: <003901c17287$ebcfcc60$0300a8c0@charter.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 13:45 21/11/2001 +0000, you wrote: > > I did copy Laurie's 72.401 kHz transmission last night, Dear John, Laurie, LF group, Congratulations on this new Transatlantic crossing - looks like your perseverance has finally paid off! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13148 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 14:46:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 14:46:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 17817 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 14:46:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 14:46:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166YZ1-0001t9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 14:41:23 +0000 Received: from cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.173]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166YZ0-0001t4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 14:41:22 +0000 Received: from modem-185.elurin.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.192.185] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 166YY6-0007NT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 14:40:27 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c1729a$770c2820$b9c0883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. 73kHz Beacon Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 14:39:07 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Congratulations John, I dont think that there is any doubt that the sig's you captured are mine. My dash freq was 72.4013 which compared to your measured freq of 72.4014 is well within the limits of my measurment capability.The times at which the signal peaked tie up very well with Alans earlier plots of CFH, and the fact that two elements ie "A" are clear indicate that the peaks are very short,the time to send a two element character about 5 mins. This of course must be an amateur distance record for 73kHz can anyone work out the distance for us please? I will continue with the tests tonight since the sunspot No. and Kp index seem to be dropping so best to make use of the opportunity. 73s and thanks Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28263 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 14:40:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 14:40:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11236 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 14:40:50 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 14:40:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166YRQ-0001sC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 14:33:32 +0000 Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.100]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166YRP-0001s7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 14:33:31 +0000 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.12d.7e7fade (25711) for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:32:43 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <12d.7e7fade.292d150b@aol.com> Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:32:43 EST Subject: Re: LF: Measuring Q To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 10505 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit In a message dated 11/21/01 8:35:15 AM GMT Standard Time, g3ldo@ukonline.co.uk writes:


I connected the coil under test with a parallel air-spaced capacitor to the
signal generator via a variable capacitor. I coupled the coil to the level
meter with with just a clip on the insulation of the coil. I reduced the
coupling to the signal generator with the variable capacitor to minimum
while maintaining a good signal on the level meter.


Hello Peter.

I tried something similar about a year ago and found that any direct connection to the coil under test affected the results. Seems from your description you have some connections which may be influencing the results.

As a start I would suggest you try link coupling the signal in from the generator.

The 'sample' output is the other problem.
My solution was to use a capacitive divider......An airspaced variable in series with a large mica capacitor. The junction has a low impedance. Even so I used a 1M resistor then coupled that to a high Z oscilloscope.  The results were OK to a Q of 350 but after that it became unreliable.

Let us know if you resolve the problems.

GL es 73

David  G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2830 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 14:26:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 14:26:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26861 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 14:26:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 14:26:59 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166YFD-0001qe-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 14:20:55 +0000 Received: from mailout02.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.17] helo=mailout02.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166YFB-0001qZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 14:20:53 +0000 Received: from fwd07.sul.t-online.de by mailout02.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 166YET-0002l7-0J; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:20:09 +0100 Received: from 217.2.40.23 (087321565-0001@[217.2.40.23]) by fwd07.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 166YEK-1NqphQC; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 15:20:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: Re: LF: Measuring Q From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 4.009 Content-Type: Text/Plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: 21 Nov 2001 14:19 GMT Message-ID: <166YEK-1NqphQC@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all, I have measured the loss of my aerial variometer with the same resistive bridge which I use to measure the feedpoint resistance of my LF arial (two resistors 150 ohms from the feed point to the "measuring diagonale" (containing a diode circuit), below that one 220 ohms potentiometer and the "unknown" terminal). The bridge is fed by a 3 watts lf transmitter (PA = TBA810AS). The "unknown" terminal is connnected to the variometer and an 500 pF air variable capacitor in series. At various settings of the variable capacitor (to see the influence of the inner turnable coil on Q) the bridge is balanced by tuning the variometer and the 220 ohms potentiometer. The potentiometer reading then gives the series resonant loss R of the variometer (assuming that the Q of the air variable capacitor is much higher). Then the L of the variometer is measured, and then Q = XL/R. (in my case 3160 ohms/18 ohms = 175). The main coil of my variometer has a diameter of 160 mm, length 180 mm, wire 1 mm dia enameled wire, close wound). The inner turnable tuning coil is much smaller. As my ground loss is still around 70 ohms the variometer loss is tolerable. With this procedure there is no need to determine a 3 dB bandwidth or care for any form of loose coupling. If the loss resistance of the variometer is expected to be lower, the resistors of the bridge should also be lowered correspondingly. HW? 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB "g3ldo" schrieb: >Recently I described some experiments with multilayer coils based on a Decca >coil. >The resultant coil is now similar to that shown in the LF book, page 13 (See >the second coil back) except my coil has two layers, double wound. I had >been advised by some of you that the Q of a multi-layer coil is low compared >with a single layer solenoid. The question is just how much lower is the Q >and how significant is it in practice. >The coil is at this moment being tested with a full kW on a T/A test and I >get just as good results as I did with the single solenoid although the >single solenoid was a much smaller coil wound with thinner wire. >To progress I need to measure Q. > >It is quite surprising how little there is in general Ham literature on >measuring > Q. I found something in the 'ARRL Electronics Data Book' and Wes Hayward's > 'Radio Frequency Design', although the latter is related to filters and > measuring loaded Q. > > I made a test rig up using a signal generator (with frequency counter) and > the Pegelmesser D2155 level meter set on wide band. > I connected the coil under test with a parallel air-spaced capacitor to the > signal generator via a variable capacitor. I coupled the coil to the level > meter with with just a clip on the insulation of the coil. I reduced the >coupling to the signal generator with the variable capacitor to minimum >while maintaining a good signal on the level meter. > The parallel capacitor caused the coil to resonate at 182kHz . Using the >3dB B/W points (down from resonance) on the meter I measured the Q as 185. >With the variometer in the coil set to minimum the coil resonated at 209kHz >and the measured Q was 167. > >Is this the right way of going about it? If I use a larger capacitor across >the coil won't this give a sharper selectivity and improved apparent Q? > >Regards, >Peter, G3LDO > >e-mail > >Web > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19667 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 14:09:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 14:09:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6687 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 14:09:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 14:09:40 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166XyI-0001oL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 14:03:26 +0000 Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166XyG-0001oG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 14:03:25 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v5.0.0.R) for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 13:46:08 +0000 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 13:45:56 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Re: 73kHz Beacon Message-ID: <3BFBB014.896.20555E@localhost> In-reply-to: <003901c17287$ebcfcc60$0300a8c0@charter.net> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > I did copy Laurie's 72.401 kHz transmission last night, with parts of the > signal being visible from 2330 to 0700 Z. There were half hour periods with and > without recognizable characters. The best copy was from 0022-0052 and from > 0452-0522 Z. For some reason, I got a lot of very clear "A's." The "Q's" were > more difficult! > QTH is Holden, Massachusetts (FN42ch), about 80 km west of Boston. > John Andrews, W1TAG Congratulations to John and Laurie. I make this a new world one-way record for the 73kHz band at about 5300km (I will calculate the exact distance tonight). Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6327 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 12:50:44 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 12:50:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17822 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 12:50:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 12:50:44 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166Wf8-0001ct-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 12:39:34 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166Wf6-0001cn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 12:39:32 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 166WeO-00010w-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 12:38:48 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 166WdD-00063I-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 12:37:35 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011121102933.00a7b730@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 12:38:25 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: Measuring Q In-reply-to: <001b01c17220$e9cc8820$531686d4@ericadodd> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Peter, LF Group, This is one of the well-known techniques for measuring Q; as Rik pointed out, the important thing is to minimise coupling between generator and detector and the tuned circuit under test, to ensure the Q is not being decreased by loading by the test gear. The way to check is to reduce the coupling so the signal amplitude is reduced, say by about half, and measure the Q again - if it is significantly different, there is significant loading. You need to do this with both generator and detector, since either one can cause loading. With very high Q coils, the coupling must be very small; the equivalent parallel resistance of a high Q LF loading coil can easily exceed a megohm, so almost anything actually connected to, or even anywhere near a high potential point in the circuit will really clobber the Q. What you really want to know is the equivalent series resistance of the coil. I usually do this as follows: Connect generator to meter and measure ampliude V1. Then connect a series resonant circuit using the coil to be tested in series with a suitable resonating capacitor across the generator terminals, and tune for a null in meter reading, ie. series resonance, and measure voltage V2. At resonance, the reactance of L and C cancel, and the remaining Rseries forms a potential divider with the paralleled source resistance of the generator (Rs) and load resistance (RL) of the meter. If you know what Rs and RL are, you can calculate Rseries: Rseries = (RsRL/[Rs+RL])*1/([V1/V2]-1) Typically, The meter needs to measure a reduction in voltage of 10 - 30dB, which should not be a problem for a level meter, or a scope. The main problem with this method is that harmonics of the generator signal will not be nulled out, and will produce an increase in apparent Rseries if that resistance is very low. However, this is not a problem if the generator output is clean (harmonics < 1%), or if a selective level meter is used to measure the voltages. It works well for series resistances less than the generator source impedances, which they should normally be. There is no other connection to the junction of L and C, which is the sensitive, high potential point in the circuit, and provided you know what it is, the source and generator impedance does not cause errors. A selective voltmeter with tracking generator is the ideal tool for this job. Once you have Rseries, Q = XL/Rseries, = 2pi*f*L/Rseries The resonant frequency of the coil for the large coils we are using will depend on stray C between windings and connecting leads, so the apparent L will wary with frequency, as will Rseries. So again I agree with Rik and Andy that it is important to measure at close to the desired operating frequency. There will always be variations in stray capacitance between measurement of Q and connection to antenna, so the effective L will be somewhat variable. Also, with large diameter coils, nearby conducting objects will absorb energy from the coil, and again affect Rseries and L. So keep coil as far as possible from ground, metallic objects, walls etc. both when measuring and in use. My 136k Loading coil has 80 odd turns of Decca litz wire on a sectional manhole former. L is about 4mH, and Rseries about 5ohms, making Q around 700. For 73k, another sectional manhole is stacked on top, wound with about 120 turns of 19/0.25 Teflon insulated stranded wire, which gives a total L of about 15mH, and a Q of around 300. The coils are wound in sections, with the total turns divided fairly evenly between the 14 slots on the former The required number of turns wound in to each slot before moving to the next, with the aim of minimising inter-winding C and maximising breakdown voltage, rather like the old-fashioned RF chokes. So G3LDO's Qs of less than 200 suggest either poor inductor performance or Q measurement errors. Having said that, with most combinations of antenna and loading coil, even reducing loading coil losses to zero would only lead to modest 10-20% increases in antenna current, because losses are dominated by the antenna itself. Other effects, like how wet the weather is, will produce similar variations. My main reason for winding big loading coils was to stop the things melting! Q measuring seems to have gone out of fashion in the last few decades - all the major test gear companies have stopped making Q meters, which is a pity because the impedance meters which have replaced them do not cope well with measurements on high-Q circuits. Older textbooks, like Scroggie's "Wireless Laboratory Handbook", discuss Q measurement at some length. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9756 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 12:39:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 12:39:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 27418 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 12:39:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 12:39:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166WUW-0001bo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 12:28:36 +0000 Received: from dc-mx08.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.18] helo=dc-mx08.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166WUV-0001bj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 12:28:35 +0000 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johncellar) by dc-mx08.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 49280489 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 07:35:17 -0500 Message-ID: <003901c17287$ebcfcc60$0300a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001101c16f92$664cc4a0$2b99883e@g3aqc> Subject: LF: Re: 73kHz Beacon Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 07:27:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I did copy Laurie's 72.401 kHz transmission last night, with parts of the signal being visible from 2330 to 0700 Z. There were half hour periods with and without recognizable characters. The best copy was from 0022-0052 and from 0452-0522 Z. For some reason, I got a lot of very clear "A's." The "Q's" were more difficult! I make the dash frequency as 72.4014 kHz. I have sent screen shots directly to Laurie -- not sure if this reflector would allow them. QTH is Holden, Massachusetts (FN42ch), about 80 km west of Boston. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3040 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 11:35:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 11:35:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 29659 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 11:36:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 11:36:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166VVE-0001Sf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 11:25:16 +0000 Received: from cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.177]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166VVC-0001Sa-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 11:25:15 +0000 Received: from modem-9.ciryon.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.148.9] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 166VUU-0004LE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 11:24:31 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01c1727f$179469e0$0994883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re Phone line RFI Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 11:24:31 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Jose, I used to have this problem in the house and cured it by winding the phone lead through a ferrite core about 6 turns should do it. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26613 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 11:33:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 11:33:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 28275 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 11:33:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 11:33:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166VRy-0001SO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 11:21:54 +0000 Received: from cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.177]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166VRx-0001SJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 11:21:53 +0000 Received: from modem-9.ciryon.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.148.9] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 166VRG-0003cx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 11:21:10 +0000 Message-ID: <000401c1727e$a02660c0$0994883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Measuring Q Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 11:20:07 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Further to Peters experience, I have used the same method:- ie lightly couple a sig gen into the coil (I use a single turn of wire ) resonate to the required freq. and find the 3db points with an oscilloscope again lightly coupled.I get very similar results with all my loading coils Q=150 to 200 only.I have also tried the same technique with small inductors for filters and here find it very difficult to measure anything above 250. One point with the large inductoras is that nearby objects reduce the Q considerably I try to keep the coil at least one diameter from all objects including the bench or table. Like Peter I have been dissapointed with the figures I obtain especially when I have seen figures like 600 mentioned. There was a technique of measurment in an article in QEX Sept/Oct 2001 The Art of Making and Measuring LF coils by IW2ACD and IK2WAQ which claims Qs up to 600 and they use a measuring technique which series resonates the coil and drives it from a very low impedance source through a transformer.I have yet to try the technique but can recomend the article. There is another article in the same QEX which deals with the Q of coils in a mathematical way. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22064 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 10:41:10 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 10:41:10 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1189 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 10:41:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 10:41:19 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166Ukg-0001KW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:37:10 +0000 Received: from gateg.kw.bbc.co.uk ([132.185.132.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166Uke-0001KM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:37:08 +0000 Received: from sunf0.rd.bbc.co.uk (ddmailgate.rd.bbc.co.uk [132.185.128.104]) by gateg.kw.bbc.co.uk (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id fALAaNa14537 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:36:24 GMT Received: from pc523 by sunf0.rd.bbc.co.uk; Wed, 21 Nov 01 10:36:22 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20011121103621.01130440@pop3> X-Sender: simonlh@pop3 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:36:21 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Simon Lloyd-Hughes" Subject: Re: LF: Phone line RFI In-reply-to: <008901c17206$5a4005c0$b59afea9@telepac.pt> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: May I suggest having a look on the rsgb emc web pages. They are linked from the site rsgb.org.uk At 20:59 20/11/01 -0000, you wrote: >This is not probably much DX related and I really >apologise for that. >I just find out today that in freq. below 28 Mhz >(when using highpower ) I make >a terrible telephone line interference in my neighbours >telephones, they can't hear a thing only my voice in the >phone. >I would really apreciate your help and advice concerning >this problem, mostly if you already had a similar situation >and what you made to solve it. > >Looking for a reply. >73 > > >Jose CT1EEB > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5506 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 10:34:59 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 10:34:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5311 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 10:35:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 10:35:11 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166Ucg-0001JJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:28:54 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166Ucf-0001JE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:28:53 +0000 Received: from blanch.pncl.co.uk (52.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.52]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id fALASB502393 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:28:11 GMT Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011121102520.00a5ddc0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:28:44 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: Re: LF: Phased rx In-reply-to: References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011120101111.00a2bb80@mail.pncl.co.uk> <5.0.2.1.2.20011120101111.00a2bb80@mail.pncl.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 09:40 21/11/01 Wednesday +0000, you wrote: >On Tue, 20 Nov 2001 11:13:53 +0000, you wrote: > > >As for getting "beams", if you add together a lot of antennas on a long > >baseline (tens of kilometres) whether for Tx or Rx you will get what > >superficially look like multiple narrow "beams" with very deep (40-50 dB) > >nulls between them. The longer the baseline or the more antennas you use > >the more "beams" and nulls you will get. In fact, an interferometer. The > >problem is that the "gain" in any one beam is miniscule, perhaps 0.5 > >dB. > >Would the steerable attenuation be more useful for nulling out >interference than >the gain itself? > >Nick Hi Nick, In theory, yes, but there are multiple nulls of varying depth and you probably don't know which direction they're in.. Accurate phase shifting to do it is a problem, also. Much easier to use a loop! Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7793 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 09:45:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 09:45:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26320 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 09:45:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 09:45:13 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166Trx-0001B8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:40:37 +0000 Received: from thick.mail.pipex.net ([158.43.192.95]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166Trw-0001B3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:40:36 +0000 Received: (qmail 13192 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 09:38:14 -0000 Received: from userfr47.uk.uudial.com (62.188.26.122) by smtp-3.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 09:38:14 -0000 From: "Nick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Phased rx Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:40:05 +0000 Message-ID: References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011120101111.00a2bb80@mail.pncl.co.uk> In-reply-to: <5.0.2.1.2.20011120101111.00a2bb80@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On Tue, 20 Nov 2001 11:13:53 +0000, you wrote: >As for getting "beams", if you add together a lot of antennas on a long >baseline (tens of kilometres) whether for Tx or Rx you will get what >superficially look like multiple narrow "beams" with very deep (40-50 dB) >nulls between them. The longer the baseline or the more antennas you use >the more "beams" and nulls you will get. In fact, an interferometer. The >problem is that the "gain" in any one beam is miniscule, perhaps 0.5 >dB. Would the steerable attenuation be more useful for nulling out interference than the gain itself? Nick From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2789 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 09:42:55 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 09:42:55 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 2574 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 09:43:11 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 09:43:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166TlU-0001AG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:33:56 +0000 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166TlT-0001AB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:33:55 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA170358 for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:33:11 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20011121103048.2d4f0804@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 10:30:48 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Measuring Q In-reply-to: <001b01c17220$e9cc8820$531686d4@ericadodd> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Peter, your method seems be OK, the losser (more loss ?) the coupling is the more accurate the Q-measurement. But keep in mind the the Q of a coil is frequency dependent, due to skin-effect, proximity effect, inter-winding capacitance etc... So it is best to choose a C that gives you a resonance close to 136kHz. 73, Rik ON7YD At 00:09 21/11/01 -0000, you wrote: >Recently I described some experiments with multilayer coils based on a Decca >coil. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6547 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 09:10:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 09:10:09 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 1239 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 09:10:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 09:10:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166TJn-00016t-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:05:19 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166TJm-00016o-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:05:18 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id JAA11395; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:13:03 GMT Received: (qmail 1313 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 09:55:45 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 09:55:45 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id JAA13506; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:29:52 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma013383; Wed, 21 Nov 01 09:29:10 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:08:13 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:03:54 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C636@PDW-MAIL-R1> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Measuring Q Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 09:03:46 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: If you use a larger capacitance resonance will naturally be at a lower frequency so you will be measuring the Q there instead. Selectivity will be higher, but when the bandwidth at the 3dB points is divided into the centre frequency the Q will still come out at the right value, albeit at this new, lower, freq. Incidently, when measuring low Qs you should use the geometric centre frequency in this calculation rather than the mid point between the two 3dB points. ie. Fc = SQRT(Fu * Fl) where Fl and Fu are the 3dB frequencies. It won't make much difference when the Q is in the hundreds, but will be noticable when used on small coils. Andy 'JNT > Is this the right way of going about it? If I use a larger > capacitor across > the coil won't this give a sharper selectivity and improved > apparent Q? > > Regards, > Peter, G3LDO > > e-mail > > Web > > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5920 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 08:36:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 08:36:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 7326 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 08:36:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 08:36:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166SmS-00011j-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 08:30:52 +0000 Received: from lycee.ns.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166SmQ-00011e-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 08:30:51 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-18-37.easynet.co.uk [212.134.224.37]) by lycee.ns.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 8E62E26E8B for ; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 00:07:47 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <001b01c17220$e9cc8820$531686d4@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Measuring Q Date: Wed, 21 Nov 2001 00:09:28 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Recently I described some experiments with multilayer coils based on a Decca coil. The resultant coil is now similar to that shown in the LF book, page 13 (See the second coil back) except my coil has two layers, double wound. I had been advised by some of you that the Q of a multi-layer coil is low compared with a single layer solenoid. The question is just how much lower is the Q and how significant is it in practice. The coil is at this moment being tested with a full kW on a T/A test and I get just as good results as I did with the single solenoid although the single solenoid was a much smaller coil wound with thinner wire. To progress I need to measure Q. It is quite surprising how little there is in general Ham literature on measuring Q. I found something in the 'ARRL Electronics Data Book' and Wes Hayward's 'Radio Frequency Design', although the latter is related to filters and measuring loaded Q. I made a test rig up using a signal generator (with frequency counter) and the Pegelmesser D2155 level meter set on wide band. I connected the coil under test with a parallel air-spaced capacitor to the signal generator via a variable capacitor. I coupled the coil to the level meter with with just a clip on the insulation of the coil. I reduced the coupling to the signal generator with the variable capacitor to minimum while maintaining a good signal on the level meter. The parallel capacitor caused the coil to resonate at 182kHz . Using the 3dB B/W points (down from resonance) on the meter I measured the Q as 185. With the variometer in the coil set to minimum the coil resonated at 209kHz and the measured Q was 167. Is this the right way of going about it? If I use a larger capacitor across the coil won't this give a sharper selectivity and improved apparent Q? Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3972 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 03:55:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 03:55:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 12428 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 03:55:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 03:55:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166OMX-0000XW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 03:47:49 +0000 Received: from dc-mx01.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.11] helo=dc-mx01.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166OMV-0000XE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 03:47:48 +0000 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johncellar) by dc-mx01.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 45669256 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 22:51:45 -0500 Message-ID: <000901c1723e$c8790e00$0300a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3BF9D846.A42BCF10@ns.sympatico.ca> <003101c17200$2aac83c0$501d86d4@ericadodd> Subject: LF: G3AQC Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 22:44:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Laurie, It appears that I've at least got pieces of "AQC" on screen captures from this evening. Will evaluate in the morning (U.S. time), and let you know. It's been a long day! John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24028 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 03:11:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 03:11:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 9662 invoked from network); 21 Nov 2001 03:11:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Nov 2001 03:11:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166Nfy-0000Tk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 03:03:50 +0000 Received: from lycee.ns.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166Nfx-0000Tf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Nov 2001 03:03:49 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-16-336.easynet.co.uk [212.134.29.80]) by lycee.ns.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 0631B17748 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:13:28 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <003101c17200$2aac83c0$501d86d4@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3BF9D846.A42BCF10@ns.sympatico.ca> Subject: LF: Re: listening Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:15:09 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John VE1ZJ said; > I'm finally QRV to listen(look) again. I feel more > comfortable at first on 139.9 kHz. I wonder could some transmit on > 135.9 es others on 73 whatever. That way I could gain confidence in my > receiving set up. > Tonight 2300Z 19 november I will monitor 135.922 with 30 sec > dots since Laurie won't be on. I suggest for other nights I will > monitor 73 on even hours es 135.9 on odd hours or else 73 first 30 > minutes es 136 second 30 min of each hour . That's good news - glad to see you back again John. I will hopefully transmit on 135.991 using standard QRSS between 2300 and the need to hit the sack I will also monitor 14.043MHz +/- QRM for any possible feedback. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5039 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 21:44:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 21:44:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1212 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 21:43:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 21:43:58 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166IdJ-00083t-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:40:45 +0000 Received: from smtp1.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.91] helo=smtp2.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166IdI-00083J-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:40:44 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.104.143]) by smtp2.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:32:29 -0400 Message-ID: <3BFB1399.615A88AD@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:38:17 -0500 From: "john currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re. Listening/73kHz Beacon References: <000201c171f9$8e703c00$4778883e@g3aqc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Laurie I'll be listening/watching 73 de john VE1ZJ Laurie Mayhead wrote: > In the absence of any reply to my earlier mail I will beacon on 72.401/2 kHz > tonight. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4905 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 21:03:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 21:03:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 3270 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 21:03:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 21:03:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166Hyf-0007vI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:58:45 +0000 Received: from fep05-svc.mail.telepac.pt ([194.65.5.209]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166Hye-0007vD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:58:44 +0000 Received: from host ([212.55.187.227]) by fep05-svc.mail.telepac.pt (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20011120210349.JWNB9118.fep05-svc.mail.telepac.pt@host>; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 21:03:49 +0000 Message-ID: <008901c17206$5a4005c0$b59afea9@telepac.pt> From: "=?iso-8859-1?B?Sm9z6SBkZSBT4Q==?=" To: "Juha Tuovinen" , dx-news@pro-usa.net, islands@forum.radio-amador.net, dx@qth.net, rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Phone line RFI Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 20:59:10 -0000 Organization: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Jos=E9_Emanuel_Ribeiro_de_S=E1?= MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is not probably much DX related and I really apologise for that. I just find out today that in freq. below 28 Mhz (when using highpower ) I make a terrible telephone line interference in my neighbours telephones, they can't hear a thing only my voice in the phone. I would really apreciate your help and advice concerning this problem, mostly if you already had a similar situation and what you made to solve it. Looking for a reply. 73 Jose CT1EEB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17392 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 19:32:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 19:32:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 29797 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 19:32:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 19:32:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166GaB-0007h0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:29:23 +0000 Received: from mail3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166GaA-0007gv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:29:22 +0000 Received: from modem-71.aranwe.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.120.71] helo=g3aqc) by mail3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 166GZS-0007eQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:28:39 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c171f9$8e703c00$4778883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. Listening/73kHz Beacon Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:27:49 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In the absence of any reply to my earlier mail I will beacon on 72.401/2 kHz tonight. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4917 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 19:20:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 19:20:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17292 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 19:20:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 19:20:56 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166GJ6-0007bo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:11:44 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166GJ5-0007bj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:11:43 +0000 Received: from ldsas06-70-121-51.cw-visp.com ([212.137.121.51] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 166G8l-0004Nv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:01:04 +0000 Message-ID: <3BFA910B.CEA61050@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:21:16 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: RE RF AMPS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Jim and others Ref your long message and detail. I am struggling to get one amp to the antenna but I am measuring at the tx 50 ohm output. Why is my signal the strongest from the UK bar MM0ALM in Scotland. I am using very modest power compared to the big Decca Jeeps around especially in the South of England. Perhaps if I measured at the top of the 400 microH loading coil it could be 20 amps. That is why I asked where in the system others were measuring the RF amperage. I agree there is nothing magical about 50 ohms except one has a standard for measurements, swr etc. I have always designed and tested at 50 ohms and NEVER to date blown a MOSFET !!!!!! Like you say some tuning for max SMOKE with no swr indication have literally seen SMOKE!! Again the big Amperage boys are not putting out the biggest signals, can you explain this? G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23989 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 19:15:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 19:15:50 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8483 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 19:16:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 19:16:04 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166GJ4-0007bh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:11:42 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166GJ3-0007bc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:11:41 +0000 Received: from ldsas06-70-121-51.cw-visp.com ([212.137.121.51] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 166G8d-0004NI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 19:00:56 +0000 Message-ID: <3BFA8B0E.3F14AEC0@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 16:55:42 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: RF AMPS References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Grok Heurewicz wrote: > >>Could having only "all you need" possibly be the reason for not hearing > >>more > >>than 7 hams? Just curious... :-) > > >These results have been achieved using normal hand sent/received CW and not > >computer aided visual methods. > > What big mistake you did in answering to the KEV joker... > Best ignore him, and his *hand sent CW* .....:-) You have made the same mistake!!!!!!!!!!! . Are you against free speech and others opinions. Sorry I cannot remember your callsign and your signal, remind me when we last had a qso on LF I like a JOKE so keep sending more!!!!!!! G3KEV > > > Grok > > _________________________________________________________________ > Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29725 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 18:47:02 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 18:47:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18585 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 18:47:05 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 18:47:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166Fli-0007TI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 18:37:14 +0000 Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166Flh-0007T9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 18:37:13 +0000 Received: from pickmere.demon.co.uk ([158.152.117.143]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 166Fkr-0003G0-0W for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 18:36:21 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:49:54 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M.J.Powell" Subject: Re: LF: "Discussion" and the amateur radio spirit References: <002701c171b6$735c4d20$049e7ad5@kevin> In-reply-to: <002701c171b6$735c4d20$049e7ad5@kevin> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In message <002701c171b6$735c4d20$049e7ad5@kevin>, Kevin Ravenhill writes >Greetings all, > >Sorry if this post is a little off-topic for the list but I felt something >needed to be said. Apologies if it sounds like a lecture, my intention was >simply to offer some constructive criticism on the subject of list postings >and I hope it will be seen as such. > >I rejoined this list very recently, after deciding to leave it many months >ago due to what I saw as an unacceptably high level of "flaming" by one or >two people in particular. This, coupled with an apparent reluctance on the >part of some to accept that others may have different technical opinions to >their own. > >Having received a couple of days postings since I rejoined, it has, sadly, >become all too apparent that nothing has changed. I see that the sniping is >still going on, and that some are still having to justify themselves in the >face of the technical bigotry / pedantry / apparent unfriendliness of >others. Unfortunately, this phenomenon does seem to be increasingly >prevalent within the amateur radio "community" (I now use that term >advisedly) in the UK in particular. > >Technology marches on, and with it the number of different avenues for >exploration - all of which are equally valid, since this is meant to be a >hobby. As such, individuals should be free to explore whatever takes their >fancy without having to endure censure, disapproval or constraint from >anyone else. Indeed, anyone who would seek to discourage such self-training >and investigation does not deserve the privilege of a radio amateur licence, >IMHO. There are many aspects of the hobby which do not interest me at all, >but I would never seek to dissuade others from taking them up. > >My impression (somewhat reinforced by talking to one or two acquaintances >who happen to be professional psychologists) is that this apparent penchant >for sniping at others is a particularly British "disease". Our American >friends in particular seem to suffer from it to a much lesser extent. This >seems to be borne out by the nature of the postings to various US-based >lists of which I am a member - even when discussions become heated, they are >almost always carried on in a spirit of friendliness and good humour. Or >perhaps it is just that I have missed something, or have simply failed to >appreciate the subtleties of wit and "drier" humour in this list? > >Whatever happened to the spirit of amateur radio and the principle of >accepting someone else's viewpoint or interest as valid even if not >necessarily agreeing with it? IMO, if you can't offer constructive input to >a particular discussion then you should not post at all. Of course, I >realise that this post in itself may be seen as not very constructive, and >that I have therefore immediately broken my own rule - fair enough. I did >have reservations about posting it. Also, for that reason it will be my one >and only post on this subject. I am happy to reply to direct emails (so long >as they are reasonably constructive!) if anyone wants to continue this. > >I fully expect to get flamed by somebody for daring to say something. In >such case it will simply reinforce my view and I will feel obliged to leave >this list for good. Some may see this as advantageous, of course....:-) > >By way of some light relief, the following page is quite interesting: > >http://www.qsl.net/vk2zto/ExpModes/beware.htm > >(I put myself very definitely in the "Dreamer" category...) > >Best regards to all in the spirit of amateur radio, > >Kevin, G1HDQ. Seconded. Mike -- M.J.Powell From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11475 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 18:32:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 18:32:14 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11393 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 18:32:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 18:32:10 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166FWC-0007QL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 18:21:12 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166FWB-0007PH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 18:21:11 +0000 Received: from ldsas18-82-133-195.cw-visp.com ([212.137.133.195] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 166FID-0001Mx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 18:06:46 +0000 Message-ID: <3BFA8457.9FE2AAA7@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 16:27:03 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Info References: <4c.201471c.292bd545@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Carmelink@aol.com wrote: > A G3 responded to warmsprings@aol.com: > > "THE FACTS are that I have worked 21 countries on 136 khz two way qso,s. and several EU dx xband with my signal on 136 khz. My reports are generally at least 2 S POINTS up on any other station from England, and include many Firsts between the rest of EU and England. To date I have made a few hundred contacts two way on 136 khz. Currently the activity on LF is very low around EU and I doubt if any more than 7 stations are active at present. These results have been achieved using normal hand sent/received CW and not computer aided visual methods. I am now CURIOUS about your achievements on LF please enlighten me." > > If I remember my English literature, I believe the expression "Look upon my works and despair" was supposed to have been found on a ruins. > > For the record,"Warmsprings@aol.com" is the tireless gentleman who edits the Lowdown, monthly newsletter of the LWCA (founded 1977), as well as manages its website, www.lwca.org. Darned if I know if John ever finds the time to get on the air, nevertheless by encouraging and publicizing others who have the time and resources, he is the virtual leader of America's long wave efforts. > > Mike W2AG Pity such a distinguished gentleman did not get his FACTS RIGHT before putting fingers to keys implying that I was only hearing 7 other LF operators because of lack of knowledge or facilities. It pays to do some research before making a judgement about others. Now you have the facts straight from the source, publish the details in the said magazine. G3KEV > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23468 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 18:31:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 18:31:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 10559 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 18:31:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 18:31:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166FXb-0007QR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 18:22:39 +0000 Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.47]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166FXa-0007PK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 18:22:38 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.98.26]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with SMTP id <20011120181806.EQPS692.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 18:18:06 +0000 Message-ID: <000801c171ef$df2ee740$1a6268d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3BF9D846.A42BCF10@ns.sympatico.ca> Subject: LF: Re: listening Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 18:19:06 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Hi all , I'm finally QRV to listen(look) again. I feel more > comfortable at first on 139.9 kHz. I wonder could some transmit on > 135.9 es others on 73 whatever. That way I could gain confidence in my > receiving set up. John, My QRO station is currently still dismantled after redecoration, but will be operational very soon. I will then be able to send QRSS for you. 73 Mike, G3XDV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 92 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 17:55:32 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 17:55:32 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9900 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 17:55:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 17:55:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166F2z-0007KM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:51:01 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166F2y-0007Jo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:51:00 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 166Eyf-000107-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:46:33 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 166Exa-0006M3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:45:26 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011120144201.00a91c70@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:46:31 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: Re: LF: RF AMPS In-reply-to: <3BFA27F6.9EA0AB2F@netscapeonline.co.uk> References: <3.0.1.16.20011120100913.2c1f42ee@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Mal, LF Group, At 09:52 20/11/2001 +0000, you wrote: ...What method and where in the system is the RF being measured, ie top of coil, cold end of coil, at the tx output etc... It seems to be conventional to measure RF current at the current maximum point of the antenna which, in the case of virtually all LF antennas tuned against ground and less than lambda/4 long, will be the point where downleads are connected to the loading coil. I have my ammeter there, and this is where my quoted antenna currents have all been measured - the current is also almost the same at the cold end of the loading coil in most cases. If there is any impedance matching between TX output and antenna, one would not generally expect the TX output current to be the same as the antenna current. ...I have seen rf measured at different points in a system and all the readings are different with a thermo couple RF ammeter... This is to be expected - the current will vary from maximum at some point to zero at the un-connected ends of the antenna wires. .....Some systems are not designed for 50 ohms, and the antenna tapped up and down a PA coil for maximum SMOKE regardless of SWR... There is nothing magic about 50ohms, it is just convenient for making cables and things. There is also nothing magic about 1:1 SWR apart from the transmitter liking it, and transmission line losses being minimised. Most antennas do not have (50 + j0) ohms impedance, but it is how much power you get into a given antenna which governs the amount of signal radiated and lost. This is effectively what measuring the current determines, together with knowing the radiation resistance and loss resistance of the antenna. ...I have also seen matched 50 ohm systems indicate more RF current output when detuned from resonance... No reason why they shouldn't - it has been a common misconception for several decades that an amplifier designed to deliver its rated output into 50 ohms actually has a source impedance of 50 ohms. This generally is not even approximately true. For example, Class D designs usually have a very low source impedance, perhaps a few ohms, and so reducing the load impedance seen by the PA will increase the output - which is why many designs have multiple taps on the output transformer to vary output power. There may also be a significant reactive component in the PA source impedance, and so de-tuning the antenna from resonance can cancel this, and lead to increased output. The downside is of course that increasing output in these ways may well overstress output devices and PSUs, and will indeed lead to maximum SMOKE! ...It would appear that the thermo couple ammeter must be getting enhancement current (more heat) from the higher SWR... Provided it is screened from the effects of RF fields and protected from other sources of error, an ammeter measures current and nothing else. SWR is a function of currents and voltages; so an ammeter will not be affected by it. ...Those using other devices other than thermo-couple rf ammeters might not see this effect... Thermocouple ammeters have the advantage of being true RMS responding. But in this application, where the signal is a good approximation to a sine wave (you've got real problems if it isn't), any RF current measuring device that is appropriately calibrated will give the same result. This includes rectifier-based instruments, and shunt resistors and current transformers in conjunction with RF voltmeters, power meters, scopes, analysers etc. The efficiency of an LF antenna is essentially the ratio of the radiation resistance to the loss resistance of the antenna - you may also wish to include the matching components. The radiation resistance Rrad is set by the geometry of the antenna, primarily described by the "effective height". Loss resistance Rloss is determined by resistive, dielectric, and magnetic losses in the materials of the antenna and all it's surroundings. For LF amateurs, the loss resistance is invariably much larger than the radiation resistance, and so the antenna current I which can be achieved with transmitter power P is just I = sqrt(P/Rloss). In my case, P is about 1200W, Rloss on a good day is about 40ohms in total, so I should get about 5.5A, which is about right. If someone is running the same TX power as you, but getting higher antenna current, there is no tricks or magic, it just means the Rloss of their antenna is less than yours. This does not mean that their antenna is more efficient than yours, since this depends also on what the radiation resistance of the other ant is. So for example they might be getting double the antenna current, but have less than 1/4 the radiation resistance, in which case their ERP would be less than yours, and in the end this is what counts. But once you have got the maximum practical effective height for your antenna, improving efficiency can only be achieved by reducing losses. The discussions on this reflector show many factors determine losses, and so experimentation is needed to find the causes of loss and devise solutions. In the light of mine and other's experience with smaller antennas than the one at G3KEV, I would be disappointed if I were Mal on finding that my antenna had a loss resistance of 50ohms. Experience shows that lower losses than this can be achieved with relatively tiny antennas, and making an antenna bigger will usually reduce its losses, so there must be some major source of loss that Mal has not identified. Since Mal does not give a complete description of his antenna, transmitter power, method of measuring Rloss, any matching devices apart from the loading coil, and so on, so it is difficult to make suggestions, but I imagine major improvement must be possible. ...so you never know really where you are with measurements, they are just relative... Everything is relative, as physicists have understood for some time. There is a maxim in engineering which says "any measurement is better than no measurement at all"; certainly I find measurements more reliable than tarot cards, asking a bloke in the pub, or discussions on 80m SSB. No measurement is ever perfect, but without some sort of measurements, we know nothing. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10292 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 17:11:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 17:11:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3121 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 17:11:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 17:11:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166EMY-0007Cb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:07:10 +0000 Received: from [204.202.140.198] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166EMW-0007CW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:07:09 +0000 Received: from gomailjtp05 ([10.212.0.165]) by mta06.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GN300HT6Z6NIF@mta06.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 08:59:12 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 08:59:13 -0800 (PST) From: "John Sexton" Subject: Re: LF: "Discussion" and the amateur radio spirit To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <6891911.1006275553657.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Kevin, Here, Here! Actually though, you seem to have been away, during a period of quite low "flak level", which regrettably seems to have returned. My solution for what it is worth, is to rigourously prune the list before reading, removing all input from known negative sources. Unfortunately this doesn't always help, because others tend to reply to it. It can be very tempting to reply (as I also have done in the past) but IMO it is best to simply ignore it and to concentrate on enjoying the hobby. There is a lot of very good stuff and help available on the reflector. 73, John, G4CNN -----Original Message----- From: "Kevin Ravenhill" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue Nov 20 03:28:00 PST 2001 Subject: LF: "Discussion" and the amateur radio spirit >Greetings all,> >Sorry if this post is a little off-topic for the list but I felt something >needed to be said. Apologies if it sounds like a lecture, my intention was >simply to offer some constructive criticism on the subject of list postings >and I hope it will be seen as such. > >I rejoined this list very recently, after deciding to leave it many months >ago due to what I saw as an unacceptably high level of "flaming" by one or >two people in particular. This, coupled with an apparent reluctance on the >part of some to accept that others may have different technical opinions to >their own. > >Having received a couple of days postings since I rejoined, it has, sadly, >become all too apparent that nothing has changed. I see that the sniping is >still going on, and that some are still having to justify themselves in the >face of the technical bigotry / pedantry / apparent unfriendliness of >others. Unfortunately, this phenomenon does seem to be increasingly >prevalent within the amateur radio "community" (I now use that term >advisedly) in the UK in particular. > >Technology marches on, and with it the number of different avenues for >exploration - all of which are equally valid, since this is meant to be a >hobby. As such, individuals should be free to explore whatever takes their >fancy without having to endure censure, disapproval or constraint from >anyone else. Indeed, anyone who would seek to discourage such self-training >and investigation does not deserve the privilege of a radio amateur licence, >IMHO. There are many aspects of the hobby which do not interest me at all, >but I would never seek to dissuade others from taking them up. > >My impression (somewhat reinforced by talking to one or two acquaintances >who happen to be professional psychologists) is that this apparent penchant >for sniping at others is a particularly British "disease". Our American >friends in particular seem to suffer from it to a much lesser extent. This >seems to be borne out by the nature of the postings to various US-based >lists of which I am a member - even when discussions become heated, they are >almost always carried on in a spirit of friendliness and good humour. Or >perhaps it is just that I have missed something, or have simply failed to >appreciate the subtleties of wit and "drier" humour in this list? > >Whatever happened to the spirit of amateur radio and the principle of >accepting someone else's viewpoint or interest as valid even if not >necessarily agreeing with it? IMO, if you can't offer constructive input to >a particular discussion then you should not post at all. Of course, I >realise that this post in itself may be seen as not very constructive, and >that I have therefore immediately broken my own rule - fair enough. I did >have reservations about posting it. Also, for that reason it will be my one >and only post on this subject. I am happy to reply to direct emails (so long >as they are reasonably constructive!) if anyone wants to continue this. > >I fully expect to get flamed by somebody for daring to say something. In >such case it will simply reinforce my view and I will feel obliged to leave >this list for good. Some may see this as advantageous, of course....:-) > >By way of some light relief, the following page is quite interesting: > >http://www.qsl.net/vk2zto/ExpModes/beware.htm > >(I put myself very definitely in the "Dreamer" category...) > >Best regards to all in the spirit of amateur radio, > >Kevin, G1HDQ. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5946 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 16:57:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 16:57:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 14162 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 16:57:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 16:57:04 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166E8B-00077i-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 16:52:19 +0000 Received: from mailout03.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.81] helo=mailout03.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166E89-00077d-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 16:52:18 +0000 Received: from fwd03.sul.t-online.de by mailout03.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 166E7L-0007Dk-00; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:51:27 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer (520006441062-0001@[217.80.67.78]) by fwd03.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 166E72-0ASxQ8C; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:51:08 +0100 From: "ARi" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: IMAGE Satellite Experiment IMAGE Satellite Experiment Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 17:51:05 0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: SimpleCheck 5.2c Message-ID: <166E72-0ASxQ8C@fwd03.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 520006441062-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF and Natural Radio Observers, INSPIRE has arranged to perform experiments to test propagation to the ground from the Radio Plasma Imager instrument on the IMAGE Satellite over two weeks starting on November 21, 2001. A table at the end gives the times for the experiments. There will be two sets of experiments, at 5-15 kHz (VLF) and at 130 and 380 kHz. The 5-15 kHz experiments will be performed on the incoming (towards perigee), southward traveling part of every orbit, starting at about the point where the magnetic field line through the satellite is at about 50 degrees N latitude. They will continue until the the 130 and 380 kHz experiment begins. The 130 and 380 kHz transmissions will begin when the satellite is four minutes before the closest approach to the South Pole, and continue four minutes past closest approach. You could be prime observers for the VLF experiments! The VLF transmissions will be 0.125 seconds on, 0.375 seconds off, at 5, 7, 9, 11, 13, and 15 kHz, repeated over and over. Details of the satellite orbit, both graphical and tabular, may be found at the Satellite Situation Center web site: http://sscweb.gsfc.nasa.gov/cgi-bin/sscweb/Locator.cgi and http://www.lwca.org/mb/msg/1462.htm ARi. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4991 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 15:54:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 15:54:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 597 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 15:54:45 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 15:54:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166D9V-0006wc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:49:37 +0000 Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166D9U-0006wT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:49:36 +0000 Received: from Carmelink@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.4c.201471c (15863) for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:48:21 -0500 (EST) Received: from web32.aolmail.aol.com (web32.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.222.8]) by air-id06.mx.aol.com (v82.22) with ESMTP id MAILINID62-1120104821; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:48:21 -0500 Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:48:20 EST From: Carmelink@aol.com Subject: LF: Info To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <4c.201471c.292bd545@aol.com> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: A G3 responded to warmsprings@aol.com: "THE FACTS are that I have worked 21 countries on 136 khz two way qso,s. and several EU dx xband with my signal on 136 khz. My reports are generally at least 2 S POINTS up on any other station from England, and include many Firsts between the rest of EU and England. To date I have made a few hundred contacts two way on 136 khz. Currently the activity on LF is very low around EU and I doubt if any more than 7 stations are active at present. These results have been achieved using normal hand sent/received CW and not computer aided visual methods. I am now CURIOUS about your achievements on LF please enlighten me." If I remember my English literature, I believe the expression "Look upon my works and despair" was supposed to have been found on a ruins. For the record,"Warmsprings@aol.com" is the tireless gentleman who edits the Lowdown, monthly newsletter of the LWCA (founded 1977), as well as manages its website, www.lwca.org. Darned if I know if John ever finds the time to get on the air, nevertheless by encouraging and publicizing others who have the time and resources, he is the virtual leader of America's long wave efforts. Mike W2AG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14921 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 15:10:05 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 15:10:05 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9272 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 15:10:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 15:10:07 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166CS1-0006pz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:04:41 +0000 Received: from f156.law9.hotmail.com ([64.4.9.156] helo=hotmail.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166CS0-0006pt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:04:40 +0000 Received: from mail pickup service by hotmail.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 07:03:26 -0800 Received: from 32.97.110.76 by lw9fd.law9.hotmail.msn.com with HTTP; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 15:03:25 GMT X-Originating-IP: [32.97.110.76] From: "Grok Heurewicz" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: RF AMPS Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 16:03:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Message-ID: X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Nov 2001 15:03:26.0012 (UTC) FILETIME=[815807C0:01C171D4] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >>Could having only "all you need" possibly be the reason for not hearing >>more >>than 7 hams? Just curious... :-) >These results have been achieved using normal hand sent/received CW and not >computer aided visual methods. What big mistake you did in answering to the KEV joker... Best ignore him, and his *hand sent CW* .....:-) Grok _________________________________________________________________ Get your FREE download of MSN Explorer at http://explorer.msn.com/intl.asp From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25404 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 13:34:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 13:34:46 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15644 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 13:34:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 13:34:51 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166Ass-0006ad-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 13:24:18 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166Asq-0006aY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 13:24:17 +0000 Received: from ldsas12-76-127-201.cw-visp.com ([212.137.127.201] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 166AiW-0006oa-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 13:13:37 +0000 Message-ID: <3BFA3FAD.232A72B6@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 11:34:05 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: phased rx Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Walter I did say for space diversity that the more space for antennas the better but I have seen this technique used in a confined space for the lower frequencies where one antenna was vertically polarised and the other horizontal and it was quite remarkable to see the rise and fall of signals as they faded then recovered etc from each antenna and then combined. It was totally random of course but effective. On LF it is more difficult without miles of real estate but for those with a few acres, and some have, then combining 2 antennas as above one horizontal and one vertical might offer a slight advantage. For small back gardens dont try it, they antennas would be so close that they might even cancel the signal out!!!!!!!!!! I agree with your observations in the rest of your message. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 566 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 13:08:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 13:08:10 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 14804 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 13:07:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 13:07:48 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166ARZ-0006Vl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:56:05 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166ARX-0006Ve-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:56:04 +0000 Received: from ldsas16-80-131-62.cw-visp.com ([212.137.131.62] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 166AHC-0005vu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:45:23 +0000 Message-ID: <3BFA1E9D.18E03F99@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:13:02 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Long-Baseline Phased Arrays on LF References: <5f.1e02c0b3.292ae06c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: WarmSpgs@aol.com wrote: > > What radio amateur is going to go to all this trouble for an occasionl > > QSO. > > Probably not many. But in order to gain hands-on experience in aspects of > the radio art? Perhaps quite a few! That is one of the well-established > purposes of the Amateur Radio Service. > > > At present there are only 7 active radio amateurs on 136 khz. Get > > real, learn the morse code, operating procedures, get the best antenna > > installed on your property that you can manage and that is all you need. > > Could having only "all you need" possibly be the reason for not hearing more > than 7 hams? Just curious... :-) THE FACTS are that I have worked 21 countries on 136 khz two way qso,s. and several EU dx xband with my signal on 136 khz. My reports are generally at least 2 S POINTS up on any other station from England, and include many Firsts between the rest of EU and England. To date I have made a few hundred contacts two way on 136 khz. Currently the activity on LF is very low around EU and I doubt if any more than 7 stations are active at present. These results have been achieved using normal hand sent/received CW and not computer aided visual methods. I am now CURIOUS about your achievements on LF please enlighten me. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24038 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 13:05:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 13:05:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5017 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 13:04:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 13:04:44 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166ARg-0006Vs-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:56:12 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 166ARe-0006Vn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:56:10 +0000 Received: from ldsas16-80-131-62.cw-visp.com ([212.137.131.62] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 166AHG-0005vy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:45:28 +0000 Message-ID: <3BFA27F6.9EA0AB2F@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:52:54 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RF AMPS References: <3.0.1.16.20011120100913.2c1f42ee@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik Strobbe wrote: > Hello Mal & group, > > >Some LF operators are indicating that they are getting large RF amperage > >into their loading coil/antennas systems for very low power output to > >the antenna ie a few 100 watts. > The current you can push through your antenna system depends on the loss > resistance you encounter. And this is more than just the ground loss. There > is also the loss in the loadingcoil and in many cases also a considerable > loss in the 'environement' ie. objects such as trees and buildings near the > antenna. > Up to a certain level one can reduce the losses, by using a high-Q > loadingcoil and a good groundsystem (radials and earthpoles). > The loss resistance (on 136kHz) can go from a few Ohm (on a metal vessel at > sea) over a few tens Ohm (good conducting ground) to a few hundred Ohm > (poor soil, many obstacles near the antenna). > So this means that for 200W output power the antenna current can go from > 10A (ie. on a metal vessel at sea) down to 1A (poor soil, many obstacles). > >From what I have read on this reflector the loss resistance for 'amateur > antenna systems' goes from 20 Ohm up to 150 Ohm. > > >I am trying to figure out what procedure they are using to measure the > >rf amps and where all the rf is going because the signals heard on LF > >are low to average around the UK and in EU. > Antenna current is only one thing that determines your ERP, the other thing > is the radiation resistance of the antenna. For a 'pure vertical' (no > toploading) the rad. res. on 136kHz (in milli-Ohm) = 0.08 x h^2 (h = > antenna height in m). Toploading can quadruple the rad. res. (in you ave > infinite toploading), in practical cases toploading will double ... triple > the rad. res. > > >My system is designed for 50 ohms throughout and matched accordingly at > >the base of the antenna via a coil with max of 400 microH. > Since the resistance you measure is for 99% (or more) the loss resistance I > would recommend to design the antenna for least resistance and match it to > 50 Ohm using a transformer of L-C circuit. > > >Maybe most are heating up the ground around the antenna, and the loading > >coil ,whereas my couple of amps are being radiated by the antenna. > Sorry to have to dissapoint you, but I'm afraid that also you use over 99% > of your power to heat the coil and soil. Even with a really big antenna > (lets' say 40m high and well toploaded) the rad. res. will not exceed a few > hundred milli-Ohms will you loss resistance most likely will be in the > range of several tens of ohms. A wild gues would be a rad. res of 0.3 Ohm > and a loss of 50 Ohm, meaning that only 0.6% of the power is radiated (and > thus 99.4% is heated). > But with the antenna system described here and a 400W TX (= 2.8A > antennacurrent) the ERP would be 4.4W, well exceeding CEPT limits ... to > stick to 1W ERP the TX power should be limited to 90W. > > >Maybe someone knows the answer. > The above is only my limited knowledge > > 73, Rik Rik. I know all of this, you did not answer the question. What method and where in the system is the RF being measured, ie top of coil, cold end of coil, at the tx output etc. I have seen rf measured at different points in a system and all the readings are different with a thermo couple RF ammeter. Some systems are not designed for 50 ohms, and the antenna tapped up and down a PA coil for maximum SMOKE regardless of SWR, so you never know really where you are with measurements, they are just relative. I have also seen matched 50 ohm systems indicate more RF current output when detuned from resonance. It would appear that the thermo couple ammeter must be getting enhancement current (more heat) from the higher SWR. I know for a fact that some are using both the above methods and that is why I asked what methods are being used by some that are getting such high amperage for low power. Those using other devices other than thermo-couple rf ammeters might not see this effect. You missed the point completely about what I was asking, and it can only be answered by those getting these very high rf currents to the antenna, except of course they are running a lot more power than they admit. I suppose with all the Decca Jeeps about there must be a lot of high power stations on the air on LF. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7501 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 12:27:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 12:27:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 596 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 12:28:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 12:28:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1669tF-0006S5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:20:37 +0000 Received: from mail6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1669tE-0006S0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:20:36 +0000 Received: from modem-91.dimbar.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.154.219] helo=g3aqc) by mail6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 1669sX-00084g-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:19:53 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01c171bd$a9094840$6e67883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: "Discussion " and the amateur radio spirit Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:19:18 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Here! Here! I agree with every word so well put by Kevin. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1876 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 12:27:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 12:27:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 2824 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 12:26:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 12:26:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1669oP-0006RR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:15:37 +0000 Received: from mail6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1669oO-0006RM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:15:36 +0000 Received: from modem-110.aman.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.103.110] helo=g3aqc) by mail6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 1669nh-00077x-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:14:53 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c171bc$f5ee25a0$6e67883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. LF Listening Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 12:12:09 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I dont know wether anyone responded to Johns offer to listen last night ? the message came through too late for me to monitor (gone to bed Hi ) But I shoild very much like for him to look for my 73kHz signal,however it seems very arduous for him to have to change band every 30mins or so. Perhaps I could suggest that we adopt an alternate night schedule using 30sec dots on 136 and the close spaced freqs we used last season. On 73kHz I would prefer to use 120sec dots DFCW and perhaps we could cluster close to my 72.401.5Khz freq which seems quite clear see W4DEX screenshot. Any comments ? 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25659 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 11:42:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 11:42:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 19241 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 11:42:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 11:42:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16698P-0006Kk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 11:32:13 +0000 Received: from public1.thorcom.com ([212.172.148.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16698O-0006Kf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 11:32:12 +0000 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by public1.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #1) id 16697i-0003l5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 11:31:31 +0000 Received: from [213.122.158.4] (helo=kevin) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 16693Z-0006SZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 11:27:14 +0000 Message-ID: <002701c171b6$735c4d20$049e7ad5@kevin> From: "Kevin Ravenhill" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: "Discussion" and the amateur radio spirit Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 11:28:00 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Greetings all, Sorry if this post is a little off-topic for the list but I felt something needed to be said. Apologies if it sounds like a lecture, my intention was simply to offer some constructive criticism on the subject of list postings and I hope it will be seen as such. I rejoined this list very recently, after deciding to leave it many months ago due to what I saw as an unacceptably high level of "flaming" by one or two people in particular. This, coupled with an apparent reluctance on the part of some to accept that others may have different technical opinions to their own. Having received a couple of days postings since I rejoined, it has, sadly, become all too apparent that nothing has changed. I see that the sniping is still going on, and that some are still having to justify themselves in the face of the technical bigotry / pedantry / apparent unfriendliness of others. Unfortunately, this phenomenon does seem to be increasingly prevalent within the amateur radio "community" (I now use that term advisedly) in the UK in particular. Technology marches on, and with it the number of different avenues for exploration - all of which are equally valid, since this is meant to be a hobby. As such, individuals should be free to explore whatever takes their fancy without having to endure censure, disapproval or constraint from anyone else. Indeed, anyone who would seek to discourage such self-training and investigation does not deserve the privilege of a radio amateur licence, IMHO. There are many aspects of the hobby which do not interest me at all, but I would never seek to dissuade others from taking them up. My impression (somewhat reinforced by talking to one or two acquaintances who happen to be professional psychologists) is that this apparent penchant for sniping at others is a particularly British "disease". Our American friends in particular seem to suffer from it to a much lesser extent. This seems to be borne out by the nature of the postings to various US-based lists of which I am a member - even when discussions become heated, they are almost always carried on in a spirit of friendliness and good humour. Or perhaps it is just that I have missed something, or have simply failed to appreciate the subtleties of wit and "drier" humour in this list? Whatever happened to the spirit of amateur radio and the principle of accepting someone else's viewpoint or interest as valid even if not necessarily agreeing with it? IMO, if you can't offer constructive input to a particular discussion then you should not post at all. Of course, I realise that this post in itself may be seen as not very constructive, and that I have therefore immediately broken my own rule - fair enough. I did have reservations about posting it. Also, for that reason it will be my one and only post on this subject. I am happy to reply to direct emails (so long as they are reasonably constructive!) if anyone wants to continue this. I fully expect to get flamed by somebody for daring to say something. In such case it will simply reinforce my view and I will feel obliged to leave this list for good. Some may see this as advantageous, of course....:-) By way of some light relief, the following page is quite interesting: http://www.qsl.net/vk2zto/ExpModes/beware.htm (I put myself very definitely in the "Dreamer" category...) Best regards to all in the spirit of amateur radio, Kevin, G1HDQ. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17590 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 11:34:53 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 11:34:53 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16884 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 11:34:55 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 11:34:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16693k-0006K6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 11:27:24 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16693j-0006K1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 11:27:23 +0000 Received: from blanch.pncl.co.uk (170.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.170]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id fAKBQfg10676 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 11:26:41 GMT Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011120101111.00a2bb80@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 11:13:53 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: Phased rx MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I asked what this synchronous reception proposal was about because diversity reception and synchronous reception are two completely different techniques and it seemed to me they were being confused. Jim M0BMU said a lot of what I was going to say so won't repeat it again. But he missed out the very important point that no matter what you do at the Tx end the received sigs will be at random phase because they'll be skywave with varying and variable path lengths. So, prima facie, you cannot do synchronous reception at long range. If you try a simple addition at base frequency (136/73) and they're 180 degs out of phase they'll cancel, not add, just like the QRN. At a fixed site the phase coherency of skywave LF signals around 100-130 kHz only persists for a few minutes and even then only if it happens that one skywave mode is predominating. Averaging over an hour would produce nothing. As for getting "beams", if you add together a lot of antennas on a long baseline (tens of kilometres) whether for Tx or Rx you will get what superficially look like multiple narrow "beams" with very deep (40-50 dB) nulls between them. The longer the baseline or the more antennas you use the more "beams" and nulls you will get. In fact, an interferometer. The problem is that the "gain" in any one beam is miniscule, perhaps 0.5 dB. Example - three antennas on a 24 km base would produce something like 16 "beams" and nulls. You could steer these nulls by phasing the feeds to the antennas but who's going to go to all that trouble for virtually no result? This technique has been used in the past for navigation aids - the four-course radiorange; the Consol system, the German "Wullenweber" but the object in all of them was to produce nulls and beams to give bearings, not to get antenna gain. Together with all the problems of maintaining absolute phase stability at the transmitters as well as at the receivers this is really a non-starter. No off-the-shelf ham gear is capable of this sort of performance even with allegedly "high-stability" options. Diversity might have more going for it but you'd have to space the antennas by many kms, maybe even hundreds of kilometres. Closely spaced antennas as suggested by 3KEV do nothing at these frequencies; they've got to be several wavelengths apart (one wavelength at 136 kHz = 2.2 kms) . However, if you want to experiment this is the way to go, as (I think it was) KK7A suggested. Set up several Rxs 50-100 kms apart and combine the detected results in a summing program somebody would have to write, I don't know of any that would do this job right now. Transfer the data by an MB7LF-like relay to get it in real time; internet far too slow for this job (and totally incoherent). Incidentally the Loran timing somebody suggested would not work because the accuracy of Loran timing depends critically on maintaining ground-wave 3rd-cycle selection which in turn means maintaining pulse shape via wide-band selection at the fundamental 100 kHz. The Loran energy around 136 is totally insufficient. Peter Martinez G3PLX once synthesized a Loran pulse using only 136 kHz energy and it was 8 uS out. Anyway what most people are seeing is skywave. You need a specialised Loran timing receiver but if you really need this sort of timng then buy a good GPS set instead - it'll be far better. Fortunately, you don't for diversity. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15872 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 10:42:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 10:42:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 19207 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 10:42:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 10:42:11 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1668GY-0006Dj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:36:34 +0000 Received: from mrwint.cisco.com ([198.135.0.176] helo=cisco.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1668GX-0006De-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:36:33 +0000 Received: from virgin.net (lon-sto4-lan-vlan132-dhcp7.cisco.com [144.254.108.10]) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA06519 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:35:14 GMT Message-ID: <3BFA3181.6C95C9B7@virgin.net> Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:33:38 +0000 From: "Stewart Bryant" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Long-Baseline Phased Arrays on LF References: <3BF960B4.FFF55445@netscapeonline.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: gii3kev wrote: > > What radio amateur is going to go to all this trouble for an occasionl > QSO. It all depends on whether ones personal interest in amateur radio is exchanging information that is more readily exchanged by phone or on the Internet, or whether it is research in radio technology. Presumably one is allowed to enjoy the latter, the former or both? Regards Stewart G3YSX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3435 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 09:19:59 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 09:19:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9840 invoked from network); 20 Nov 2001 09:19:36 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Nov 2001 09:19:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1666x2-000649-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:12:20 +0000 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1666x0-000644-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 09:12:18 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA126964 for ; Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:11:34 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20011120100913.2c1f42ee@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 20 Nov 2001 10:09:13 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: RF AMPS In-reply-to: <3BF948A4.B55BE2CB@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Mal & group, >Some LF operators are indicating that they are getting large RF amperage >into their loading coil/antennas systems for very low power output to >the antenna ie a few 100 watts. The current you can push through your antenna system depends on the loss resistance you encounter. And this is more than just the ground loss. There is also the loss in the loadingcoil and in many cases also a considerable loss in the 'environement' ie. objects such as trees and buildings near the antenna. Up to a certain level one can reduce the losses, by using a high-Q loadingcoil and a good groundsystem (radials and earthpoles). The loss resistance (on 136kHz) can go from a few Ohm (on a metal vessel at sea) over a few tens Ohm (good conducting ground) to a few hundred Ohm (poor soil, many obstacles near the antenna). So this means that for 200W output power the antenna current can go from 10A (ie. on a metal vessel at sea) down to 1A (poor soil, many obstacles). >From what I have read on this reflector the loss resistance for 'amateur antenna systems' goes from 20 Ohm up to 150 Ohm. >I am trying to figure out what procedure they are using to measure the >rf amps and where all the rf is going because the signals heard on LF >are low to average around the UK and in EU. Antenna current is only one thing that determines your ERP, the other thing is the radiation resistance of the antenna. For a 'pure vertical' (no toploading) the rad. res. on 136kHz (in milli-Ohm) = 0.08 x h^2 (h = antenna height in m). Toploading can quadruple the rad. res. (in you ave infinite toploading), in practical cases toploading will double ... triple the rad. res. >My system is designed for 50 ohms throughout and matched accordingly at >the base of the antenna via a coil with max of 400 microH. Since the resistance you measure is for 99% (or more) the loss resistance I would recommend to design the antenna for least resistance and match it to 50 Ohm using a transformer of L-C circuit. >Maybe most are heating up the ground around the antenna, and the loading >coil ,whereas my couple of amps are being radiated by the antenna. Sorry to have to dissapoint you, but I'm afraid that also you use over 99% of your power to heat the coil and soil. Even with a really big antenna (lets' say 40m high and well toploaded) the rad. res. will not exceed a few hundred milli-Ohms will you loss resistance most likely will be in the range of several tens of ohms. A wild gues would be a rad. res of 0.3 Ohm and a loss of 50 Ohm, meaning that only 0.6% of the power is radiated (and thus 99.4% is heated). But with the antenna system described here and a 400W TX (= 2.8A antennacurrent) the ERP would be 4.4W, well exceeding CEPT limits ... to stick to 1W ERP the TX power should be limited to 90W. >Maybe someone knows the answer. The above is only my limited knowledge 73, Rik From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13252 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2001 23:17:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2001 23:17:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17514 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2001 23:17:22 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2001 23:17:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165xZj-0004y5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 23:11:39 +0000 Received: from smtp1.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.91] helo=smtp2.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165xZi-0004y0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 23:11:38 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.9.52]) by smtp2.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 19:07:05 -0400 Message-ID: <3BF9D846.A42BCF10@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 23:12:54 -0500 From: "john currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: listening Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all , I'm finally QRV to listen(look) again. I feel more comfortable at first on 139.9 kHz. I wonder could some transmit on 135.9 es others on 73 whatever. That way I could gain confidence in my receiving set up. Tonight 2300Z 19 november I will monitor 135.922 with 30 sec dots since Laurie won't be on. I suggest for other nights I will monitor 73 on even hours es 135.9 on odd hours or else 73 first 30 minutes es 136 second 30 min of each hour . 73 all de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8456 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2001 22:29:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2001 22:29:23 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16929 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2001 22:29:35 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2001 22:29:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165wq6-0004rJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 22:24:30 +0000 Received: from imo-m01.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165wq4-0004rE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 22:24:29 +0000 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-m01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.5f.1e02c0b3 (3968) for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 17:23:41 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <5f.1e02c0b3.292ae06c@aol.com> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 17:23:40 EST Subject: Re: LF: Long-Baseline Phased Arrays on LF To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > What radio amateur is going to go to all this trouble for an occasionl > QSO. Probably not many. But in order to gain hands-on experience in aspects of the radio art? Perhaps quite a few! That is one of the well-established purposes of the Amateur Radio Service. > At present there are only 7 active radio amateurs on 136 khz. Get > real, learn the morse code, operating procedures, get the best antenna > installed on your property that you can manage and that is all you need. Could having only "all you need" possibly be the reason for not hearing more than 7 hams? Just curious... :-) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 772 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2001 21:40:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2001 21:40:53 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17798 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2001 21:41:08 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2001 21:41:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165w57-0004kD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 21:35:57 +0000 Received: from heavymetal.isc.de ([195.64.96.45] helo=mail1.isys.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165w56-0004k8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 21:35:56 +0000 Received: from [195.64.97.48] (helo=k) by mail1.isys.net with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 165w4P-00064l-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 22:35:14 +0100 From: "Klaus von der Heide" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 22:40:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: re-long base line In-reply-to: <3BF948AB.A0596FFC@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3KEV wrote: > You have heard of the proverbial sledge hammer to crack a nut, well this > suggestion is like using a JCB to crack the same nut, and for what > purpose. To exchange a few details like a callsign and report amongst a > handful of radio hams on LF. If we were discussing transportation of > large volumes of radio traffic around the world then the suggestion > might have some merit. > All that is needed is some expertise as a radio operator using hand > sent/received CW or computer aided like very slow CW already in use by > some. > One other simple approach might be a crude but effective method of > spaced diversity like using say 3 antennas, one vertical, one horizontal > and one loop and combine the inputs. Which ever antenna is producing the > max signal at that instant would produce the best output to the > receiver. > This method has been used on HF for years and is old hat but very > effective, combining > a horizontal antenna and a vertical antenna. Not a lot of space is > required even on LF if loaded > antennas are used, of course the more space the better. > G3KEV > > Amateur Radio has many aspects. If it only were to exchange a few details like a callsign and a report on LF, then nobody would use this reflector. There is no difference between LF-work, EME and meteor scatter or AO-40-operation: all need both, operator practice and technical knowledge and the fascination to get something work. If something has been used for years, it could die very fast. That happened this year in the meteor scatter area. Joe Taylor published his "WeakSignal by K1JT" program (WSJT) this year. My automatically written log on 144.370 MHz obtained with an omnidirectional antenna counted 24 heard DXCC countries on last sunday, all using FSK441. 73 de Klaus, DJ5HG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 470 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2001 21:40:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2001 21:40:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 14380 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2001 21:39:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2001 21:39:45 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165w1e-0004jf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 21:32:22 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165w1d-0004ja-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 21:32:21 +0000 Received: from ldsas01-65-116-12.cw-visp.com ([212.137.116.12] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 165vrG-00074b-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 21:21:41 +0000 Message-ID: <3BF960B4.FFF55445@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 19:42:44 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Long-Baseline Phased Arrays on LF References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Klaus von der Heide wrote: > Dear all, > > nearly two years ago we had a discussion about Phased Arrays > and Diversity on this reflector. > > Diversity is a method to choose the temporarily best signal > from receivers that are many wavelength apart from each other. > Especially when the antenna must be omnidirectional, this is > advantageous. The 10 m relay in Hamburg is a well known example. > > Phased Arrays combine several antennas coherently. For an > acceptable antenna pattern the distances of the individual > antennas should be about a quarter of a wavelength (as in a Yagi). > > The combination can be done in several ways: > > 1. Direct combination of the antenna feeds as in Yagi-groups > > 2. Combination after preamplification > > 3. Combination after conversion > > The first way is not possible on LF because of the distances. > The third way needs coherent oscillators at all wide spread > receiver frontends or a sufficiently strong pilot signal > in the LF band that could be used later to make all converted > signals coherent. Since, in any way, the signals must be combined > from distances of some hundred meters to a few kilometers > the optimum choice are IR-links that can transmit the 136 kHz > bands directly to a central station (way 2.). > > The combination at the central station can be done in two ways: > > a. Delaying the individual signals appropriately to realize > one directional pattern, then adding them and receiving with > a conventional receiver. > > b. Downconverting all signals in parallel using the same > oscillator (which in this case is no problem), digitize > the signals and implement delay patterns for all directions > you want in parallel by a DSP. This is equivalent to a > strongly directional antenna with high gain that simultaneously What radio amateur is going to go to all this trouble for an occasionl QSO. At present there are only 7 active radio amateurs on 136 khz. Get real, learn the morse code, operating procedures, get the best antenna installed on your property that you can manage and that is all you need. The rest is just patience, listen and work what you can hear. >>From the radio amateur point of view that is all that is required, except you intend to shift vast volumes of radio traffic. The commercial operators on LF have invented it all and RE-INVENTED it Years ago the radio amateur was ahead in his garden shed but today he is so far behind in the same shed, it seems some people never learn. G3KEV > > looks in many directions. > > 73 de Klaus, DJ5HG > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9397 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2001 20:53:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2001 20:53:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 13646 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2001 20:54:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2001 20:54:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165vMy-0004cE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 20:50:20 +0000 Received: from ligarius-fe0.ultra.net ([146.115.8.189]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165vMx-0004c7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 20:50:19 +0000 Received: from comrex (216-164-246-28.s2123.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com [216.164.246.28]) by ligarius-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n26500/mtc.v2) with SMTP id PAA16877 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 15:49:29 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <010301c1713c$0a5c92a0$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000201c17134$62572180$8775883e@g3aqc> Subject: LF: Re: Re 73kHz Beacon Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 15:51:27 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Laurie, > Hi Dex John and all, > No beacon tonight, cndx not good. Will advise when things improve. 73s Noted. Nothing heard 2300 - 0230 last night. Seemed noisier than the previous evening. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8083 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2001 20:03:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2001 20:03:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 18672 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2001 20:03:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2001 20:03:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165uYI-0004UY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 19:57:58 +0000 Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165uYH-0004UT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 19:57:57 +0000 Received: from modem-7.aradan.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.117.135] helo=g3aqc) by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 165uXa-0007Cj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 19:57:15 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c17134$62572180$8775883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re 73kHz Beacon Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 19:55:42 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Dex John and all, No beacon tonight, cndx not good. Will advise when things improve. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12309 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2001 18:52:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2001 18:52:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11300 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2001 18:52:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2001 18:52:23 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165tPp-0004Lj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:45:09 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165tPn-0004LY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:45:07 +0000 Received: from ldsas05-69-120-130.cw-visp.com ([212.137.120.130] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 165tFT-000547-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:34:28 +0000 Message-ID: <3BF948AB.A0596FFC@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:00:11 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: re-long base line Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: You have heard of the proverbial sledge hammer to crack a nut, well this suggestion is like using a JCB to crack the same nut, and for what purpose. To exchange a few details like a callsign and report amongst a handful of radio hams on LF. If we were discussing transportation of large volumes of radio traffic around the world then the suggestion might have some merit. All that is needed is some expertise as a radio operator using hand sent/received CW or computer aided like very slow CW already in use by some. One other simple approach might be a crude but effective method of spaced diversity like using say 3 antennas, one vertical, one horizontal and one loop and combine the inputs. Which ever antenna is producing the max signal at that instant would produce the best output to the receiver. This method has been used on HF for years and is old hat but very effective, combining a horizontal antenna and a vertical antenna. Not a lot of space is required even on LF if loaded antennas are used, of course the more space the better. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27357 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2001 18:49:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2001 18:49:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 14303 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2001 18:49:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2001 18:49:59 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165tPp-0004Lh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:45:09 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165tPn-0004LX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:45:07 +0000 Received: from ldsas05-69-120-130.cw-visp.com ([212.137.120.130] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 165tFN-00053T-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:34:21 +0000 Message-ID: <3BF948A4.B55BE2CB@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:00:04 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: RF AMPS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Some LF operators are indicating that they are getting large RF amperage into their loading coil/antennas systems for very low power output to the antenna ie a few 100 watts. I am trying to figure out what procedure they are using to measure the rf amps and where all the rf is going because the signals heard on LF are low to average around the UK and in EU. I am running a few hundred watts also and get nothing like the rf amperage that others are claiming. My system is designed for 50 ohms throughout and matched accordingly at the base of the antenna via a coil with max of 400 microH. Others must have exceptional antenna and ground efficiency. Maybe most are heating up the ground around the antenna, and the loading coil ,whereas my couple of amps are being radiated by the antenna. Maybe someone knows the answer. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25785 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2001 17:43:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2001 17:43:52 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23587 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2001 17:44:04 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2001 17:44:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165s4w-0004BP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 17:19:30 +0000 Received: from heavymetal.isc.de ([195.64.96.45] helo=mail1.isys.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165s4u-0004BK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 17:19:29 +0000 Received: from [195.64.107.9] (helo=k) by mail1.isys.net with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 165s4B-0007KS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:18:43 +0100 From: "Klaus von der Heide" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 18:23:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Long-Baseline Phased Arrays on LF In-reply-to: <5.1.0.14.0.20011119112735.00a76080@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all, nearly two years ago we had a discussion about Phased Arrays and Diversity on this reflector. Diversity is a method to choose the temporarily best signal from receivers that are many wavelength apart from each other. Especially when the antenna must be omnidirectional, this is advantageous. The 10 m relay in Hamburg is a well known example. Phased Arrays combine several antennas coherently. For an acceptable antenna pattern the distances of the individual antennas should be about a quarter of a wavelength (as in a Yagi). The combination can be done in several ways: 1. Direct combination of the antenna feeds as in Yagi-groups 2. Combination after preamplification 3. Combination after conversion The first way is not possible on LF because of the distances. The third way needs coherent oscillators at all wide spread receiver frontends or a sufficiently strong pilot signal in the LF band that could be used later to make all converted signals coherent. Since, in any way, the signals must be combined from distances of some hundred meters to a few kilometers the optimum choice are IR-links that can transmit the 136 kHz bands directly to a central station (way 2.). The combination at the central station can be done in two ways: a. Delaying the individual signals appropriately to realize one directional pattern, then adding them and receiving with a conventional receiver. b. Downconverting all signals in parallel using the same oscillator (which in this case is no problem), digitize the signals and implement delay patterns for all directions you want in parallel by a DSP. This is equivalent to a strongly directional antenna with high gain that simultaneously looks in many directions. 73 de Klaus, DJ5HG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25258 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2001 13:00:46 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2001 13:00:46 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5855 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2001 13:00:49 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2001 13:00:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165nrP-0003Y6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 12:49:15 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165nrO-0003Y1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 12:49:14 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 165nqd-0000yg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 12:48:27 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 165nqc-0007Hb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 12:48:26 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011119112735.00a76080@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 12:48:25 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: Long-Baseline Phased Arrays on LF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Well, it works for radio astronomers and early warning radars, so why not on LF? Here are a few comments: The basic idea seems to be to coherently add together receiver outputs from different locations; the signal amplitudes would add directly, whereas the non-correlated noise would only increase as the square root of the number of stations, so you would get 3dB more SNR for 2 receivers, 6dB for 4, etc. By doing this, one would also effectively obtain a strong directional pattern The implicit assumption is that the noise at the different locations will come from different sources and so not be correlated, wheras the signal comes from the same source and will be. However, under reasonably good receiving conditions, most of the noise seems to come from atmospheric QRN, usually at great distances. So the receivers will probably all be hearing the same static crashes, and the noise at the different locations will be correlated to a significant degree. A lot of the local, artificial noise is connected in one way or another with the mains, which since it is all connected to the same national grid, will presumably be correlated to some extent too. So I suspect there will not be a great gain in SNR. You could argue that distant sources of noise could be rejected by synthesising a directional pattern with nulls in appropriate places, provided there was not a thunderstorm in the same direction as the desired signal. The nulls are effectively produced by cancelling the noise signals arriving at different receivers from the offending direction against each other. As well as needing accurate relative phase information to do this, accurate relative amplitude information is also required, needing some means of performing real-time gain calibration on all the receivers and antennas in the array. My recent experience of performing about 300 field strength measurements showed that a standard deviation of about 1dB in amplitude, with individual readings up to +/- 3dB out, occurred due to environmental factors, even though the same receiver and antenna was used at all locations. Although variations at different locations seemed to be fairly constant over a period of a couple of weeks, it is difficult to know what long-term variations might happen. On HF, at various times diversity reception seems to have been popular. These systems basically had a number of ganged RXs with separate antennas, and summed the demodulated outputs so that whichever receiver was getting the strongest signal contributed the most to the overall output. Obviously not coherent in any way, but seems to have been quite effective against selective fading. Fading is also a problem on LF, especially for the very slow transmission modes, so might this cruder approach also work for LF? It would depend on fades occuring at different times at different receiving locations. I seem to remember we found this was the case during the group monitoring experiment we tried on the CFH signal last winter ( see http://www.qsl.net/on7yd/t181200.htm). If so it could be done for QRSS by simply superimposing spectrograms obtained with the same settings received at different locations; it would be a bit harder with something like Wolf, requiring accurate timing info to combine a number of recordings. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1904 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2001 12:40:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2001 12:40:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 20025 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2001 12:40:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2001 12:40:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165nX6-0003UR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 12:28:16 +0000 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165nWz-0003UM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 12:28:11 +0000 Received: from [213.1.138.143] (helo=default) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 165nWG-0007Zv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 12:27:24 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01c170f5$889eee20$8f8a01d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Propagation and DX Cluster spots Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 12:08:54 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, Judging from the DCF39 data from Brian CT1DRP, the daytime conditions this weekend seemed to be up on the September average by about 10dB. Some of this might be due to the weaker autumn sun, not giving quite so high a level of absorption in daytime as earlerier in the year. But I suspect we still have the after-effects of the the recent geomagnetic storm to thank. The night-time conditions look poor, with levels barely making the average, and a great deal of very rapidly varying fading. I think this probably signals the "beginning of the end" (as someone once famously said !) of this event. If we do not get any more major storms the conditions should be back to normal by about next weekend. You can't please everybody and this probably means average daytime conditions and improved long distance (4000kms up) nightime conditions. Reports suggest that you have been making good use of the conditions this weekend I have not been activivly listening so I have appended a segment of the LF spots for the last couple of weeks from my local DX Cluster. 136.8 DJ2LF 17-Nov-2001 1741Z 569 Walter JN59->JO42 137.0 DL3FDO 17-Nov-2001 1313Z 559 qso ok1dtn -i am on136.8 137.0 OK1DTN 17-Nov-2001 1310Z 539 in jnt5tw 136.9 DL3FDO 17-Nov-2001 1255Z hrd !! 136.3 DJ7RD 17-Nov-2001 1234Z cq 136.1 OK1DTN 16-Nov-2001 1715Z now strong no cpy 137.0 OK1DTN 16-Nov-2001 1710Z bad swr on 136 !! 136.0 OK1DTN 16-Nov-2001 1709Z 569 pse lsn 137.0!!! 137.1 DJ1YFK 11-Nov-2001 1551Z Fabian 449 JO32QG -> JO42 136.8 DK7SU 11-Nov-2001 1525Z cq, 55 qrn jn49->jo42 136.6 DK6NI 11-Nov-2001 1411Z cq 136.8 DK7SU 11-Nov-2001 1124Z cq 136.7 F6BWO 11-Nov-2001 1122Z cq 136.7 DL3FDO 11-Nov-2001 1055Z cq 136.4 DK6NI 11-Nov-2001 1055Z cq 136.9 OM2TW 11-Nov-2001 0907Z CQ 136.9 OM2TW 11-Nov-2001 0913Z cq cq cq 136.7 DK7SU 11-Nov-2001 0826Z cq 136.6 DK6NI 10-Nov-2001 1807Z cq 136.7 DK6NI 10-Nov-2001 1619Z cq 137.0 DL3FDO 4-Nov-2001 1437Z 136.5 DK6NI 4-Nov-2001 1412Z cq 136.7 DK7SU 4-Nov-2001 1334Z cq 137.7 PA0BWL 4-Nov-2001 1220Z qrss G3NYK de GB7MRS 19-Nov-2001 1140Z > Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22174 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2001 08:57:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2001 08:57:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 956 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2001 08:57:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2001 08:57:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165k6m-00033x-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 08:48:52 +0000 Received: from latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.40]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165k6k-00033s-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 08:48:50 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-1-117.easynet.co.uk [195.40.206.117]) by latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 9E3D855BFD for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 08:48:05 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <001101c170d7$3e763ba0$75ce28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3BF656EA.67F83CD3@virgin.net> Subject: LF: Re: [Fwd: [Lf] A modest proposal...] Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 08:49:01 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Jake Brodsky wrote: > > > I'm curious if any of you have discussed the possibility of large > > scale synchronous reception on LF. > > YES we have, but haven't done much about it yet! :-) > > As you probably know, we (AMRAD/DARC/RSGB) awarded the 1st "over the > Atlantic" Peter Bobek Awards last month for a two-way communication > that took several _days_ to be completed (between England and Canada). My two-way QSO with VE1ZZ on the 13th Feb 01, with VE1ZJ acting as receive station, took 55 minutes. . At the present time simple systems and weather eye open for optimum propagation seem to have been the most successful with LF DX. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27175 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2001 00:22:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2001 00:22:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 8981 invoked from network); 19 Nov 2001 00:22:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Nov 2001 00:22:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165c8a-0002I8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 00:18:12 +0000 Received: from tvout.mail.uk.easynet.net ([194.6.96.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165c8Z-0002I3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 00:18:11 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-3-112.easynet.co.uk [195.40.202.112]) by tvout.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7F78E62EE4 for ; Mon, 19 Nov 2001 00:17:28 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000201c1708f$ec97f360$70ca28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011117174327.00a1ea70@mail.pncl.co.uk> Subject: LF: LF activity Date: Mon, 19 Nov 2001 00:02:58 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, I have not been QRV for several months due to other commitments. Today I returned to 136kHz and this is a report of the today's (Sunday) activity. I had been experimenting with an ex-Decca loading/diplexer coil and have now finishd up with a multi-layer coil that gives reasonable results - I will give details in the near future on my web page. The antenna has been refurbished with new connections and PA0SE insulators. I borrowed a 73kHz Decca transmitter from the Crawley club and with their permission passed this over to Laurie G3AQC so that he could continue his 73kHz T/A tests. Laurie has modified my transmitter so that it is a dual band (73/136kHz) unit. I will give details on how he did this in the near future. Using only one module of the Decca transmitter I started the day with 1.8A antenna current and after several hours of rejigging the winding arangement of the multi-layer Decca coil and the matching coil taps managed 3.8A antenna current. I also did some listening experiments using the loop (shown on my web page) and the transmitting antenna. I put out several automatic CQs during the tests and heard nothing. I had been using the loop to null out the Loran and when I switched the receiver to the transmitting antenna I found out were all the action was. First of all I was called by F6BWO who was Q5 in spite of heavy QRN. Later I heard HB9F?N trying to work C?1?RP and complaining of QRN. The HB9 was R3 and the other station R2. Later I heard OK1DTN at around S7 (1125) on the loop but he faded later. I did try a call but I was in the middle of some coils adjustments and the transmitter/antenna was not working all that well. I heard OK1DTN in QSO with G3AQC and PA0BWL. Other stations heard DJ8WX and HB9ASB. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11220 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2001 23:03:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Nov 2001 23:03:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 17726 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2001 23:03:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Nov 2001 23:03:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165apF-00020y-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 22:54:09 +0000 Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.47]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165apD-00020q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 22:54:07 +0000 Received: from compaq ([62.253.44.17]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with SMTP id <20011118225325.VMFF25045.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@compaq> for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 22:53:25 +0000 Message-ID: <015201c17083$d943a400$292dfd3e@compaq> From: "Tracey Gardner" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Test - Don't open Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 22:53:19 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I'm having problems on an other list so I wanted to see if this one is working OK. Tracey From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29381 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2001 18:51:18 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Nov 2001 18:51:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1022 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2001 18:50:59 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Nov 2001 18:50:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165WyG-0001WO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 18:47:12 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165WyE-0001WJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 18:47:10 +0000 Received: from blanch.pncl.co.uk (53.235.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.235.53]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id fAIIkT830883 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 18:46:30 GMT Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011117174327.00a1ea70@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 18:19:08 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: A modest proposal In-reply-to: <3BF656EA.67F83CD3@virgin.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I don't quite understand what this proposal is about. Try this: The remote Tx sends a steady carrier for an hour: Both rxs "hear" him for a few moments now and again but at both sites he is too weak to be detectable. The two rxs are added together in the hope that some of those moments will coincide and give a 3 dB gain which might be sufficient to lift him out of the noise. Is that the idea? Walter G3JKV. Re phased rx: Unless I mistake what you're trying to do, you will have to use some sort of phase-coherent detection. That's the usual reason for time-locking and baseline compensation. This means the incoming signal would have to hold constant phase over the integration period. At the tx itself no ham stuff is good enough for this even if you didn't switch it so would-be DX-er's would have to build a special high-stability driver using constant-phase switching, not just plug in the mfr's allegedly "high-stability" option. Then, the path itself is unstable at long ranges and signal phase would constantly wander as the path length drifted because of iono changes. At relatively short ranges (1000-2000 kms) that might on occasion have a predominant single skywave mode you could possibly get away with it for five or ten minutes under the most favourable circumstances but no longer. At greater ranges there are always several modes and you will get almost random phase changes. To see what I mean take a look (if you have the right gear) at a Loran-C pulse coming from these ranges at night. Not at the pulse envelope but phase-track the 100 kHz signal itself in wide-band (20 kHz) mode. Also, there is no chance of forming a single "beam" at these frequencies. At best, if all the signal delays were properly compensated between rx antennas you would get multiple lobes with deep nulls in between, interferometer-style. On a 3 lambda baseline, about 24 nulls each side. Longer baselines would produce more and more nulls. Incidentally, without special timing rxs the accuracy of time-synchronisation via GPS is not likely to be better than 1 uS. At 136 kHz that's nearly 50 degs of phase so you could be an eighth-cycle out right away. Sorry to be a "wet"! Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22987 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2001 18:23:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Nov 2001 18:23:13 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 14048 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2001 18:23:23 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Nov 2001 18:23:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165WVe-0001Te-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 18:17:38 +0000 Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165WVV-0001TZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 18:17:30 +0000 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.14.1dc5884f (3700) for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 13:16:14 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <14.1dc5884f.292954ed@aol.com> Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 13:16:13 EST Subject: LF: Fwd: [Lf] Long baseline reception / transmission of LF To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 10504 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi group,
I received this from the Amrad LF mailing list, posted by Stewart KK7KA (sn@scgroup.com). Hope the HTM format is not a problem for your browser:

Hi all,

Jake's post is quite exciting; it would be great to try those techniques.
I'm presently in a very noisy location (Paris), but could possibly
contribute by writing some code to process recordings.

Under ideal conditions, if both Rx locations experienced the same S/N,
the signals could be coherently added, and the noise was uncorrelated,
the combined S/N would be improved by 3 dB.  Perhaps 2 dB is practically
realizable.  While that's nothing to sneeze at, it's not a dramatic
improvement.  LF is not like EME, where 2 dB of additional antenna gain
results in a big increase in the number of stations heard.  A wide range
of ERPs, distances, and propagation conditions contribute to a huge
variation in incoming S/N.  So, many stations can be heard with a single
antenna, but for most of those that can't, an extra 2 dB is not enough.
How often would it help?  Of course, we won't know until we try it, but
here is an attempt at an optimistic estimate.  Let's assume that the
S/N of incoming signals is normally distributed, with a standard deviation
of only 10 dB, and a mean 1 dB below our reception threshold.  In that
case, we could receive about 46% of the signals using one antenna, and
about 54% of the signals using two.  This means that only one in 12
experiments would be successful, if success is defined as decoding a
message which could not have been decoded using either station alone.

I believe that the above effect could be mitigated by making SSB bandwidth
recordings at each station, so that the entire LF band is captured.  Of
course, this requires receiving locations where there are no really strong
local signals to swamp the receiver.  One could then search the recordings
for signals which can be detected, but not decoded.  These would then be
further examined to see if decoding is possible by combining the signals.
If the original recordings had dozens of signals, the probability of a hit
should be pretty high.  If we don't see any, we can try again using three
or more stations.

Now for the good news: IMO it's possible, using suitable software, to
combine LF recordings made at different locations, with no need for GPS
locking or special references.  That's because a superb reference is
already present: LORAN.  Even if individual 'LORAN lines' are quite weak,
there are a couple of hundred such lines in SSB bandwidth, so from most
locations there should be no problem tracking the frequency and phase.
LORAN can also enable precise time alignment of the recordings.  While not
time standards in the normal sense, all North American and NELS chains are
locked to UTC.  This means that the master stations conceptually emitted
their first pulses on 1958/01/01 at 00:00 UTC.  If a recording contains
pulses from a dual rated station, and the time is known within a few
seconds, then precise time stamps with sub millisecond accuracy can be
easily derived.

Bob WA3WDR wrote "If we get a few transmitting stations running, we can also
try phase-synchronized transmitters beaming in a particular direction."
This has the possibility of delivering monstrous signals!  Because not only
do we increase our antenna gain, we are also launching more power into the
air.  Two stations of equal ERP, properly phased, will deliver 6 dB more
to a specified target than either station alone.  If four stations are
used, we can gain up to 12 dB.  I don't think that it is too hard to
achieve the required synchronization, if the transmitters are close enough
to hear each other via a reliable ground wave path.  One transmitter is
designated master.  The slaves stop transmitting for say, half a second
out of every ten.  During that time they measure the apparent phase of the
master with their local receiver, and compare it with the measured phase
of their own signal.  An adjustment is then made to maintain the desired
offset.  If you have an SSB transmitter and a separate receiver, connected
to a PC sound card, it should be possible to implement this system with no
special hardware.  Of course, transmitters locked to GPS would be even
better.

Finally, I believe that these experiments can result in many benefits
unrelated to long baseline.  For example, if you have a communication
link between two LF stations, one with a powerful transmitter and one
with a quiet receiving location, it's obvious that you can complete some
QSOs that would be impossible from either alone.  Or, with multiple
receiving locations, there is a greater chance of copying a particular
signal; one location might be favored with good propagation or low noise.
And, if your equipment is all locked to GPS or LORAN or whatever, then
the improved stability will enable narrower bandwidths, and hence,
reception of weaker signals.

All comments and flames welcome.

73,

Stewart KK7KA


_______________________________________________
lf mailing list
lf@amrad.org
http://www.amrad.org/mailman/listinfo/lf


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11913 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2001 15:21:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Nov 2001 15:21:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 22646 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2001 15:20:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Nov 2001 15:20:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165Tgw-00019i-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 15:17:06 +0000 Received: from dc-mx01.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.11] helo=dc-mx01.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165Tgv-00019d-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 15:17:05 +0000 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johncellar) by dc-mx01.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 44780596 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 10:23:49 -0500 Message-ID: <000701c17043$f9a8e600$0300a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001101c16f92$664cc4a0$2b99883e@g3aqc> Subject: LF: Re: 73kHz Beacon Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 10:16:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Laurie, > I will run the beacon tonight (and tomorrow all being well) > Freq.72.401/2 kHz, DFCW 120sec dots. Starting 2300utc through to 0730. 73s Nothing seen from 2300 to 0300 utc. Will look again tonight. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11577 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2001 12:35:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Nov 2001 12:35:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 16612 invoked from network); 18 Nov 2001 12:35:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Nov 2001 12:35:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165R1E-0000qI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 12:25:52 +0000 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 165R1C-0000qD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 12:25:50 +0000 Received: from abc (man-s190.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.45.61]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id fAICP2T10888 for ; Sun, 18 Nov 2001 12:25:03 GMT Message-ID: <005c01c1702c$5275ac40$3d2df7c2@zetnet.co.uk> From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011117171924.00a32840@mail.pncl.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Propagation Date: Sun, 18 Nov 2001 09:06:47 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Walter, Would you send me the attachment direct please? Many thanks, 73 de John Rabson G3PAI ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Blanchard" To: Sent: Saturday, November 17, 2001 5:26 PM Subject: LF: Propagation > I'll try this one again without the attachment. It didn't get through first > time (too long? or was it the attachment?) > Anybody wants the attachment I'll send it privately. > > Flg might be of interest , culled from an old Decca document: > > Quote : > > Propagation at Decca frequencies. (70-130 kHz) > > Signals at DECCA frequencies are reflected by the ionosphere. At medium > latitudes and distances in summer the reflection coefficient is small, > about 2 per cent, and the effective reflection height is about 70 km. At > night the effective reflection height increases, thereby increasing the > attenuation because of the increased propagation path length, but this > effect is not enough to balance the attenuation of the signals in the lower > parts of the ionosphere in the day time. The sky wave is therefore stronger > at night than in the day time at average and large distances. The > reflection coefficient is about 25 per cent at 500 km of distance at night, > and the effective reflection altitude is about 95 km . The range of a chain > is usually defined with regard to the distance where the wave reflected > from the ionosphere reaches the same level as the ground wave, which is > about 440 km at night and about twice that value in the day time . > > Measurements of ground waves have shown that their magnitudes are > approximately Rayleigh distributed. Even if the ground wave and the sky > wave have about the same magnitude at about 800 km distance from the > transmitters at night, there may be strong and rapid fluctuations of the > received signal at shorter ranges, when the two waves have opposite phases. > This can cause lane slippage even when > a skywave has only half the power of the ground wave. This may happen about > 400 to 500 km from the transmitters. The range where the sky wave and the > ground wave are about equal is about 500 to 1300 km from the transmitters. > After 1300 km the sky wave dominates. The DECCA lines-of-position maps have > been worked out based on the ground wave alone. Sky wave interference gives > fluctuating phase errors because of amplitude and phase variations of the > sky wave. This gives rise to complicated error functions in the position > measurement because the slaves are phase-locked to the master. Therefore, > there are three different sky waves with influence at each line-of-position > determination: master slave, master receiver and slave receiver. The > statistical distribution of the errors can be predicted and, for example, > be expressed as the part of the time the errors are below a certain value. > The sky wave does not give rise to errors in lane counting until it > dominates the ground wave. This happens, as mentioned above no closer to > the transmitters than 400 to 500 km at night (800 to 1000 km in the day time). > > It was mentioned above that line-of-position deviations have turned out to > have a Gaussian distribution. Approximately, this applies also at night > even if the measured density function has turned out to have a slightly > different shape as about 75 per cent of all measurements are found within > one sigma (compared to 68 per cent for the Gaussian distribution) . This > also implies that fewer measurement errors are found far from the average, > compared to what can be expected according to the Gaussian distribution. > > Extensive measurements of sky wave effects have been carried out wherever > DECCA chains are established, at different places within the chain coverage > and at different times. Consequently, it has been possible to map > variations as a function of time of year, atmospheric phenomena, > geographical position and earth conductivity. In order to avoid too much > influence by short time effects, the measurement series have been divided > into time intervals of seven days. > > The ionospheric effects are correlated to the sun spot activity which has a > period of about 11 years. The uncertainty brought about by this activity is > 10 to 20 per cent around the average, which the error predictions are based > on, and is greatest in winter. The DECCA errors are at a minimum when the > activity is at a maximum, and this is due to the attenuation of the sky > wave under such circumstances. The largest error sources within the > coverage of the chain are irregular propagation and unfavourable aspect > angles between lines of position. Maps have been published for the > different chains showing accuracy contours as a function of time of year > and time of day. > > (end of quote) > > The maps referred to here were called "onion" maps (sample attached) and > are quite interesting because they give the type of propagation to be > expected hour-by-hour for every month of the year. > > Walter G3JKV > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23948 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2001 18:10:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Nov 2001 18:10:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 24615 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2001 18:10:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Nov 2001 18:10:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1659qo-0007bZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 18:05:58 +0000 Received: from mail3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1659qn-0007bU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 18:05:57 +0000 Received: from modem-43.denethor.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.153.43] helo=g3aqc) by mail3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 1659q7-0003r5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 18:05:15 +0000 Message-ID: <001101c16f92$664cc4a0$2b99883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 73kHz Beacon Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 18:04:35 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I will run the beacon tonight (and tomorrow all being well) Freq.72.401/2 kHz, DFCW 120sec dots. Starting 2300utc through to 0730. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27491 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2001 17:32:32 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Nov 2001 17:32:32 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3072 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2001 17:32:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Nov 2001 17:32:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1659FE-0007Vc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 17:27:08 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1659FC-0007VX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 17:27:06 +0000 Received: from blanch.pncl.co.uk (43.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.43]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id fAHHQM907212 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 17:26:23 GMT Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011117171924.00a32840@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 17:26:44 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: Propagation MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I'll try this one again without the attachment. It didn't get through first time (too long? or was it the attachment?) Anybody wants the attachment I'll send it privately. Flg might be of interest , culled from an old Decca document: Quote : Propagation at Decca frequencies. (70-130 kHz) Signals at DECCA frequencies are reflected by the ionosphere. At medium latitudes and distances in summer the reflection coefficient is small, about 2 per cent, and the effective reflection height is about 70 km. At night the effective reflection height increases, thereby increasing the attenuation because of the increased propagation path length, but this effect is not enough to balance the attenuation of the signals in the lower parts of the ionosphere in the day time. The sky wave is therefore stronger at night than in the day time at average and large distances. The reflection coefficient is about 25 per cent at 500 km of distance at night, and the effective reflection altitude is about 95 km . The range of a chain is usually defined with regard to the distance where the wave reflected from the ionosphere reaches the same level as the ground wave, which is about 440 km at night and about twice that value in the day time . Measurements of ground waves have shown that their magnitudes are approximately Rayleigh distributed. Even if the ground wave and the sky wave have about the same magnitude at about 800 km distance from the transmitters at night, there may be strong and rapid fluctuations of the received signal at shorter ranges, when the two waves have opposite phases. This can cause lane slippage even when a skywave has only half the power of the ground wave. This may happen about 400 to 500 km from the transmitters. The range where the sky wave and the ground wave are about equal is about 500 to 1300 km from the transmitters. After 1300 km the sky wave dominates. The DECCA lines-of-position maps have been worked out based on the ground wave alone. Sky wave interference gives fluctuating phase errors because of amplitude and phase variations of the sky wave. This gives rise to complicated error functions in the position measurement because the slaves are phase-locked to the master. Therefore, there are three different sky waves with influence at each line-of-position determination: master slave, master receiver and slave receiver. The statistical distribution of the errors can be predicted and, for example, be expressed as the part of the time the errors are below a certain value. The sky wave does not give rise to errors in lane counting until it dominates the ground wave. This happens, as mentioned above no closer to the transmitters than 400 to 500 km at night (800 to 1000 km in the day time). It was mentioned above that line-of-position deviations have turned out to have a Gaussian distribution. Approximately, this applies also at night even if the measured density function has turned out to have a slightly different shape as about 75 per cent of all measurements are found within one sigma (compared to 68 per cent for the Gaussian distribution) . This also implies that fewer measurement errors are found far from the average, compared to what can be expected according to the Gaussian distribution. Extensive measurements of sky wave effects have been carried out wherever DECCA chains are established, at different places within the chain coverage and at different times. Consequently, it has been possible to map variations as a function of time of year, atmospheric phenomena, geographical position and earth conductivity. In order to avoid too much influence by short time effects, the measurement series have been divided into time intervals of seven days. The ionospheric effects are correlated to the sun spot activity which has a period of about 11 years. The uncertainty brought about by this activity is 10 to 20 per cent around the average, which the error predictions are based on, and is greatest in winter. The DECCA errors are at a minimum when the activity is at a maximum, and this is due to the attenuation of the sky wave under such circumstances. The largest error sources within the coverage of the chain are irregular propagation and unfavourable aspect angles between lines of position. Maps have been published for the different chains showing accuracy contours as a function of time of year and time of day. (end of quote) The maps referred to here were called "onion" maps (sample attached) and are quite interesting because they give the type of propagation to be expected hour-by-hour for every month of the year. Walter G3JKV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27205 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2001 12:33:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Nov 2001 12:33:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11813 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2001 12:33:10 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Nov 2001 12:33:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1654Yj-0006wO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 12:26:57 +0000 Received: from mta02.btfusion.com ([62.172.195.247] helo=btclick.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1654Yi-0006wJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 12:26:56 +0000 Received: from virgin.net ([213.121.108.88]) by btclick.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.05) with ESMTP id GMY2IW02.B36 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 12:25:44 +0000 Message-ID: <3BF656EA.67F83CD3@virgin.net> Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 12:24:10 +0000 From: "Stewart Bryant" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: [Fwd: [Lf] A modest proposal...] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: A second note from the USA Stewart G3YSX -------- Original Message -------- Subject: [Lf] A modest proposal... Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 18:29:05 -0500 From: Andre Kesteloot To: frussle@erols.com CC: lf@amrad.org, Dexter McIntyre w4dex References: Jake Brodsky wrote: > I'm curious if any of you have discussed the possibility of large > scale synchronous reception on LF. YES we have, but haven't done much about it yet! :-) As you probably know, we (AMRAD/DARC/RSGB) awarded the 1st "over the Atlantic" Peter Bobek Awards last month for a two-way communication that took several _days_ to be completed (between England and Canada). In addition, we also awarded a certificate to W4DEX for the longest path reception of a British signal on 136 kHz. There is nothing that says that we must integrate the reception from several sites in _real time_. After all we are talking about dot length of one minute ... Hence, if Ham Station A has a precise time reference (from a GPS receiver), receives on a certain frequency for, say, one hour, and then ships the received data --through the internet, for instance-- to Ham Station B, then B should be able, with suitable amounts of DSP, to correlate both signals and eventually get the desired signal out of the crud. Let's try it. Our 136.745 beacon (Front Royal, Virginia) is down right now for antenna maintenance, but should be back on the air within 10 days. We could then try and receive it from several places, and integrate / correlate the received signals with time information. That signal was received regularly as far as London, Ontario. By working on a known signal first, and sharpening our techniques, we could then try and receive invisible signals (i.e., lost in the noise), such as British Hams, etc. Let's do it and see what happens. 73 André _______________________________________________ lf mailing list lf@amrad.org http://www.amrad.org/mailman/listinfo/lf From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4003 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2001 12:29:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Nov 2001 12:29:40 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10522 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2001 12:29:50 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Nov 2001 12:29:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1654Ux-0006wA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 12:23:03 +0000 Received: from mta02.btfusion.com ([62.172.195.247] helo=btclick.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1654Uv-0006w5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 12:23:01 +0000 Received: from virgin.net ([213.121.108.88]) by btclick.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.05) with ESMTP id GMY2CC05.T52 for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 12:21:48 +0000 Message-ID: <3BF655FE.3A19C768@virgin.net> Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 12:20:14 +0000 From: "Stewart Bryant" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: [Fwd: Re: [Lf] Greetings! I have a modest proposal...] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Some thoughts from the USA -------- Original Message -------- Subject: Re: [Lf] Greetings! I have a modest proposal... Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 17:53:12 -0500 From: Frank Gentges KØBRA To: frussle@erols.com CC: LF List Jake, Like Bob, I am also intrigued by your proposal. When wavelengths exceed 7000 feet, it is hard to construct directional antennas inside a one tenth wavelength box except for a figure eight pattern loop or a cardioid variant when a loop and efield probe are combined. For directional antenna patterns like we are more used to at HF we need to break out of the one tenth wavelength box. We could for example, place several efield probes around the countryside and send the signal to a central point for beam forming processing and other post beam forming processing. One way is to provide long cables to the connect the central point to the remote antenna sites. This would require a lot of cable and easements. Another way is to transmit the individual remote antenna signals via VHF, UHF or microwave. If the system maintains phase integrity, the individual remote antenna signals can be combined in a beam former. I think your idea is focused on the details of doing the translation and transport process of getting the remote signals to the central beam forming site. Perhaps there are other approaches that could also be used. In any event, with enough remote antennas spaced far enough apart, we may be able to form some narrow beams that would reject noise and interference off of the main lobe. I am not sure I would call this gain in the same sense as a yagi beam antenna would exhibit. With LF, directivity is much more useful than raw gain. Good thoughts and I am definitely not laughing. Your ideas are stimulating. A while back I was interested in building a remote LF receiver that could be tuned and listened to over an internet connection. Perhaps this could be a remote node for beamforming. We were looking at using dumpster grade computers and an RX320. I got some good ideas here on this list. Keep us informed of your thinking and work. Frank K0BRA At 02:47 PM 11/16/01 -0500, you wrote: >I haven't seen any activity in a couple weeks since I signed up, so I >figure I'll introduce myself and hopefully you guys won't laugh too >hard... > >Some of you may remember me. My call is AB3A. > >Tony McConnell (N3JLI) and I were intrigued by K0BRA's antenna >article. We're building four of these things. Bear with me for a >minute, I have an idea and I'm wondering if anyone has considered >anything of this sort. > >I'm curious if any of you have discussed the possibility of large >scale synchronous reception on LF. > >The plan would be to use a set I and Q inputs from a quadrature >receiver, such as described by KK7B. We would use two or more >receivers, spaced at least several wavelengths apart. Suppose for a >minute that we manage to build an LO which we discipline to some >common reference, such as WWVB or GPS. > >Knowing the precise position of each active antenna (using DGPS), one >might be able to construct a long base-line array if all the receivers >were tuned to the same frequency. > >My initial thought was to have a local station (which both receivers >could hear) transmit an in-band signal with some sort of time mark on >it so that we could integrate the recordings from each site. > >A carrier with a +/-90 degree phase shift each second would do nicely. >Using this time mark, one could take the recordings from each of the >two stations and sum them together making a long baseline phased >array. > >I was thinking that if the station we were trying to receive were >maybe 1 kHz or so away from our reference transmitter, we ought to be >able to record the I and Q channels. Then, using a packages such as >Cool-Edit Pro, we ought to be able to sum them together with the >appropriate phases and time delays. > >Has anyone considered this? Is anyone interested in trying it? > >73, > >Jake Brodsky, mailto:frussle@erols.com >PP ASEL IA, Cessna Cardinal N30946, Based @ FME >Amateur Radio Station AB3A >_______________________________________________ >lf mailing list >lf@amrad.org >http://www.amrad.org/mailman/listinfo/lf Frank Gentges KØBRA LF web site at _______________________________________________ lf mailing list lf@amrad.org http://www.amrad.org/mailman/listinfo/lf From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1414 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2001 11:47:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Nov 2001 11:47:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21605 invoked from network); 17 Nov 2001 11:47:20 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Nov 2001 11:47:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1653oj-0006qW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:39:25 +0000 Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.164]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1653oi-0006qR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 11:39:24 +0000 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.9.) id l.137.4bcb349 (4402) for ; Sat, 17 Nov 2001 06:38:38 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <137.4bcb349.2927a63d@aol.com> Date: Sat, 17 Nov 2001 06:38:37 EST Subject: LF: Proposal for phased array (by Jake Brodsky) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 10504 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi group,

I found this interesting mail  on from Amrad's  LF mailing list (lf@amrad.org).

A bit 'hi-tech' but definitely not 'off topic' ..
  73 Wolf  DL4YHF.


<-------- beginning of original mail by Jake Brodsky --------->

Subject: [Lf] Greetings! I have a modest proposal...


I haven't seen any activity in a couple weeks since I signed up, so I
figure I'll introduce myself and hopefully you guys won't laugh too
hard...

Some of you may remember me.  My call is AB3A.  

Tony McConnell (N3JLI) and I were intrigued by K0BRA's antenna
article.  We're building four of these things.  Bear with me for a
minute, I have an idea and I'm wondering if anyone has considered
anything of this sort.

I'm curious if any of you have discussed the possibility of large
scale synchronous reception on LF.  

The plan would be to use a set I and Q inputs from a quadrature
receiver, such as described by KK7B.  We would use two or more
receivers, spaced at least several wavelengths apart.  Suppose for a
minute that we manage to build an LO which we discipline to some
common reference, such as WWVB or GPS.

Knowing the precise position of each active antenna (using DGPS), one
might be able to construct a long base-line array if all the receivers
were tuned to the same frequency.  

My initial thought was to have a local station (which both receivers
could hear) transmit an in-band signal with some sort of time mark on
it so that we could integrate the recordings from each site.  

A carrier with a +/-90 degree phase shift each second would do nicely.
Using this time mark, one could take the recordings from each of the
two stations and sum them together making a long baseline phased
array.  

I was thinking that if the station we were trying to receive were
maybe 1 kHz or so away from our reference transmitter, we ought to be
able to record the I and Q channels. Then, using a packages such as
Cool-Edit Pro, we ought to be able to sum them together with the
appropriate phases and time delays.  

Has anyone considered this?  Is anyone interested in trying it?

73,

Jake Brodsky, mailto:frussle@erols.com
PP ASEL IA, Cessna Cardinal N30946, Based @ FME
Amateur Radio Station AB3A
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12354 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2001 17:30:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Nov 2001 17:30:54 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 2833 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2001 17:30:38 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Nov 2001 17:30:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 164meT-0004j3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 17:19:41 +0000 Received: from ewey-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.191] helo=ewey.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 164meQ-0004iy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 17:19:40 +0000 Received: from goatee.excite.com ([199.172.157.31]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20011116171817.KUKZ24685.ewey.excite.com@goatee.excite.com> for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 09:18:17 -0800 Message-ID: <6904426.1005931097062.JavaMail.imail@goatee.excite.com> Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 09:18:12 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: OK1DTN MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender-Ip: 213.104.154.176 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Everyone, I have heard OK1DTN regularly during this week. Is this a consequence of improved conditions or is Ruda running high power or perhaps has a better antenna than most? Otherwise the band has been pretty empty. Plenty of room for experiments with modes other than CW. 73, John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ http://inbox.excite.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23955 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2001 08:47:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Nov 2001 08:47:36 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 912 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2001 08:47:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Nov 2001 08:47:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 164eWf-0003VM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 08:39:05 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 164eWe-0003VH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 08:39:04 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id IAA15907; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 08:46:38 GMT Received: (qmail 32459 invoked from network); 16 Nov 2001 09:29:39 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 16 Nov 2001 09:29:39 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id JAA16093; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 09:04:12 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma016086; Fri, 16 Nov 01 09:03:45 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 08:41:59 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 08:37:49 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C628@PDW-MAIL-R1> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: [Tech] Electronic Goniometer? Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 08:37:46 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: For the weighting elements why not use a binary switched attenuator. At low frequencies, FET switches onto a tapped constant impedance resistor ladder will give you constant impedance and exact attenuation steps and will have good strong signal handling capability You can get the precise sin/cos values from a look up table. Use a processor (which could be as simple as a PIC) to make the look up from sin/cos data stored in EEPROM based on input from your interface - voltage from a potentiometer, rotary shaft encoder or whatever you like. Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: Johan Bodin [mailto:sm6lkm.jbeab@swipnet.se] > Sent: 2001-11-15 21:39 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: [Tech] Electronic Goniometer? > > > Dear LF group > > Does anyone have an idea how to design an electronic goniometer? > > Imagine a "black box" that is fed with two signals from a > pair of orthogonal > (for example N/S and E/W) untuned loop antennas, let's call > them X and Y. > The output from the box should ideally be X * cos(A) + Y * > sin(A) where A > is a control signal which could be a simple DC voltage, a > digital control word > or whatever.. Such a "black box" could be very useful for > direction finding > without the need to rotate a loop physically. > > When combined with an omnidirectional antenna and a phasing > circuit, the > resulting cardioid pattern can also be used to null out > interference, just like > a K9AY antenna does, but better - with steerable, instead of > fixed, null > directions. My two loop / eight nulls (modified) K9AY is > doing a nice job > but I miss the ability to put the null in ANY direction... > > The "black box" could be a pair of attenuators with ability > to switch the phase > 180 deg's. In its simplest form it could be just two > potentiometers and two > switches (and phase reversal transformers). This would be OK > to manually > null out interference but to make accurate D.F. measurements, precise > sin/cos behaviour of the attenuators is required. > > > Any ideas? (besides making a "physical" goniometer) > > 73 de Johan SM6LKM > > > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8727 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2001 21:45:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Nov 2001 21:45:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 20435 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2001 21:45:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Nov 2001 21:45:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 164UEr-00025T-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 21:40:01 +0000 Received: from fep04.swip.net ([130.244.199.132] helo=fep04-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 164UEp-000254-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 21:39:59 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.10.103]) by fep04-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20011115213915.CFJN25094.fep04-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 22:39:15 +0100 Message-ID: <001c01c16e1d$fcd048a0$670a97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: [Tech] Electronic Goniometer? Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 22:38:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF group Does anyone have an idea how to design an electronic goniometer? Imagine a "black box" that is fed with two signals from a pair of orthogonal (for example N/S and E/W) untuned loop antennas, let's call them X and Y. The output from the box should ideally be X * cos(A) + Y * sin(A) where A is a control signal which could be a simple DC voltage, a digital control word or whatever.. Such a "black box" could be very useful for direction finding without the need to rotate a loop physically. When combined with an omnidirectional antenna and a phasing circuit, the resulting cardioid pattern can also be used to null out interference, just like a K9AY antenna does, but better - with steerable, instead of fixed, null directions. My two loop / eight nulls (modified) K9AY is doing a nice job but I miss the ability to put the null in ANY direction... The "black box" could be a pair of attenuators with ability to switch the phase 180 deg's. In its simplest form it could be just two potentiometers and two switches (and phase reversal transformers). This would be OK to manually null out interference but to make accurate D.F. measurements, precise sin/cos behaviour of the attenuators is required. Any ideas? (besides making a "physical" goniometer) 73 de Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1780 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2001 19:44:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Nov 2001 19:44:46 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28373 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2001 19:44:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Nov 2001 19:44:46 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 164SNO-0001mW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:40:42 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 164SNN-0001mR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:40:41 +0000 Received: from ldsas02-66-117-219.cw-visp.com ([212.137.117.219] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 164SD8-0002Zh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:30:07 +0000 Message-ID: <3BF419DA.5BF98136@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 19:39:07 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: OH1BS Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: A new one for me this evening OH1BS/Simo. In spite of the very heavy qrn/static we managed a solid qso, and he gave me 579. Band activity very low recently but I do manage a few good EU qso's every week on LF and lots of DX on the higher freqs. JA and other far East stations booming in day and night on 7 mhz. All the HF bands seem to be producing plenty of dx presently. Someone recently asked how to improve sensitivity on a IC746 on LF. I find the opposite with my antenna and have to use attenuation. If you lack sensitivity on any rig on LF - improve the antenna and that will solve your problem. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12731 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2001 18:15:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Nov 2001 18:15:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 11755 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2001 18:16:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Nov 2001 18:16:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 164Qxj-0001Z7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 18:10:07 +0000 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.129]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 164Qxh-0001Yf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 18:10:05 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.178.84]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20011115180850.YZVX3964.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Fri, 16 Nov 2001 07:08:50 +1300 Message-ID: <000c01c16e00$f90e3dc0$54b21bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011004082609.00a1f080@mail.pncl.co.uk> <002701c17a2a$03db3fc0$926e36d2@rvernall> <021801c16df4$860978a0$e95c7ad5@dave> Subject: LF: Re: Re: EU windows of time for ZL dark paths Date: Fri, 16 Nov 2001 07:10:57 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave G3YMC, In response to matters raised: > ZL2CA wrote (in a mail dated Dec 1 2001!): > >ZL6QH is intending to transmit for all hours of ZL darkness, using 137.7898 kHz > with a list of proposed times. > > If top band is anything to go by, the tests should be continued for at least an hour > after EU local sunrise, and similarly an hour before local sunset. Band conditions > usually peak well after local dawn. In practice we will be transmitting earlier and finishing later than our local hours of darkness. What was not spelt out is that the continuous transmission caters for the Americas and Asia during the times that Europe is in full daylight. > Assuming this exercise is on QRSS, I shall not be participating myself. It is QRSS, using DFCW,taking 10 minutes to send a Q. We feel that the advantage of 120 second dot length and computer accessories for receiving, are needed to pull anything out of the noise on such long paths. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28303 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2001 16:50:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Nov 2001 16:50:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 12129 invoked from network); 15 Nov 2001 16:50:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Nov 2001 16:50:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 164PZ4-0001Kk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 16:40:34 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 164PZ0-0001Kb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 16:40:30 +0000 Received: from [213.122.92.233] (helo=dave) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 164PYK-0004Vt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Nov 2001 16:39:48 +0000 Message-ID: <021801c16df4$860978a0$e95c7ad5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011004082609.00a1f080@mail.pncl.co.uk> <002701c17a2a$03db3fc0$926e36d2@rvernall> Subject: LF: Re: EU windows of time for ZL dark paths Date: Thu, 15 Nov 2001 16:41:20 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ZL2CA wrote (in a mail dated Dec 1 2001!): >ZL6QH is intending to transmit for all hours of ZL darkness, using 137.7898 kHz with a list of proposed times. If top band is anything to go by, the tests should be continued for at least an hour after EU local sunrise, and similarly an hour before local sunset. Band conditions usually peak well after local dawn. I remember early October to be the best time for the G-ZL path, which is when I worked ZL3GQ many years ago around my local dawn, but openings were a few minutes only. Assuming this exercise is on QRSS, I shall not be participating myself. 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12402 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2001 18:53:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2001 18:53:23 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 13745 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2001 18:53:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2001 18:53:24 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16451S-0006qI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 18:44:30 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16451P-0006qD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 18:44:27 +0000 Received: from ldsas17-81-132-151.cw-visp.com ([212.137.132.151] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 1644r6-0004qQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 18:33:49 +0000 Message-ID: <3BF2B975.92181C73@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 14 Nov 2001 18:35:33 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: Contest Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Is there a beacon contest going on. Keep hearing microwatt transmissions at this qth. G3JKV has been at it all day long just below 136 khz with his 1w, workable if he could send/receive normal cw. Has anyone ever worked this man on normal cw. Recent news from our man Gould at rsgb, beacons are not useful any more, there are enough commercial stns active around 136 khz without amateur beacons. What is the point? I copy all of the beacons aurally without any visual aids. This is the 4th heard this past week or so, they do not bother me but I am curious. Has this anything to do with the Southern repeater, where one likes to hear ones self. Get a good LF antenna installed and you can hear the microboys direct with out aids. Worked DK7SU this afternoon, he was very weak and gave me 559. I doubt if the repeater relay even heard him. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10518 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2001 08:46:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2001 08:46:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 5917 invoked from network); 14 Nov 2001 08:46:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Nov 2001 08:46:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 163vY0-0005Yh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 08:37:28 +0000 Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.130]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 163vXw-0005Yc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 08:37:24 +0000 Received: from rvernall ([210.54.110.146]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20011114083604.VKVX5089.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@rvernall> for ; Wed, 14 Nov 2001 21:36:04 +1300 Message-ID: <002701c17a2a$03db3fc0$926e36d2@rvernall> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011004082609.00a1f080@mail.pncl.co.uk> Subject: LF: EU windows of time for ZL dark paths Date: Sat, 1 Dec 2001 05:34:54 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit

ZL to Europe dark path assessment

ZL6QH is intending to transmit for all hours of ZL darkness, using 137.7898 kHz with + and - 0.2 Hz frequency shift, on 1 December 2001.  ZL sunset is 0800 UTC and sunrise 1658 UTC.  A time sequence for European countries can be assessed from the list below, which shows nominal sunrise times in the first list, and nominal sunset times in the second list.  Obviously it is a simplification to give a single time for any country, and individuals can make specific assessments of dark time windows with ZL for their particular QTH.

 Sunrise time in European country

=========================

Greece         0539 UTC

Italy             0635

Czech Rep.      0658

Finland      0721

Germany      0731

Sweden      0740

Netherlands      0748

Portugal      0752

Spain (west)  0753 

      ZL sunset at 0800 (no DX before this?)

England      0807

Ireland      0837

Scotland      0844

(then all of Europe is in daylight, so no LF DX until sunset?)

 

Sunset time in European country

=========================

Finland      1318

Sweden      1354

Czech Rep.      1505

Greece      1511

Germany      1532

Netherlands      1532

Italy       1544

Scotland      1549

England      1600

Ireland      1612

Spain (west)  1653 

         ZL sunrise at 1658 (no DX after this?)

Portugal      1720

 

Comment

=======

The the direction of a "grayline" across Europe for sunrise is quite different than for sunset.  The antipode region for ZL is Portugal.

There appear to be two dark path opportunities for the British Isles, before local sunrise and after sunset on Saturday 1 December.  Northern Scotland may be the "best" place. 

Most of mainland Europe appears to have only one opportunity, at and after sunset on 1 December.

In any case, and whatever path is taken, it is a rather long shot.

73, Bob ZL2CA

PS my apology for the formatting, but it would not "do what I wanted" ....

 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16000 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2001 18:30:59 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2001 18:30:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4734 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2001 18:31:09 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2001 18:31:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 163iBE-0003oY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 18:21:04 +0000 Received: from oso.slonet.org ([207.114.180.2] ident=cbuttsch) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 163iBC-0003oQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 18:21:02 +0000 Received: from localhost by oso.slonet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA20382; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 10:20:02 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 10:20:01 -0800 (PST) From: "Clifford Buttschardt" To: "Walter Blanchard" Cc: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Computer as DSP audio filter In-reply-to: <5.0.2.1.2.20011113095938.00a1a5a0@mail.pncl.co.uk> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Yes, putting a set of instructions on the reflector might be a very good idea, even before the author has had a chance to edit his HELP files as was indicated on the download site. Cliff K7RR On Tue, 13 Nov 2001, Walter Blanchard wrote: > At 09:09 13/11/01 Tuesday +0100, you wrote: > >..............I do have Spectran and will have some direct e-mail > >discussion with Alberto > >about some details how to use it. > > > >Thanks to all that have responded to my request. > > > >73, Dick, PA0SE > > > Dick, could you copy me with your questions and replies, pse? > Or put them on this reflector? > Have some questions re Spectran myself and it might save Alberto's > time. > Tks > Walter G3JKV. > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 450 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2001 15:07:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2001 15:07:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 25332 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2001 15:07:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2001 15:07:19 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 163f1R-0003N8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 14:58:45 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 163f1O-0003N3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 14:58:42 +0000 Received: from ldsas16-80-131-56.cw-visp.com ([212.137.131.56] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 163er8-0007cE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 14:48:07 +0000 Message-ID: <3BF1340B.BAB3A5B0@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 14:54:03 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: BEACON Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I can hear all the microwatt beacons here on my vertical. Today EI0CF is very active on 136 khz in beacon mode and about S4. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26763 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2001 10:21:44 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2001 10:21:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1771 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2001 10:09:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2001 10:09:35 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 163aOj-0002hP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 10:02:29 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 163aOi-0002hK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 10:02:28 +0000 Received: from blanch.pncl.co.uk (205.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.205]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id fADA1lF15035 for ; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 10:01:48 GMT Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011113095938.00a1a5a0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 10:01:58 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: Re: LF: Computer as DSP audio filter In-reply-to: <007201c16c28$c5ac9c80$2a83153e@w8k3f0> References: <3BEFF641.19014.181C6C3@localhost> <163R12-22KK1pC@fwd01.sul.t-online.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 09:09 13/11/01 Tuesday +0100, you wrote: >..............I do have Spectran and will have some direct e-mail >discussion with Alberto >about some details how to use it. > >Thanks to all that have responded to my request. > >73, Dick, PA0SE Dick, could you copy me with your questions and replies, pse? Or put them on this reflector? Have some questions re Spectran myself and it might save Alberto's time. Tks Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14692 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2001 10:00:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2001 10:00:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 4288 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2001 10:00:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2001 10:00:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 163aEb-0002fH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 09:52:01 +0000 Received: from cmailenv2.svr.pol.co.uk ([213.218.77.54]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 163aEZ-0002fC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 09:51:59 +0000 Received: from [62.21.131.42] (helo=w8k3f0) by cmailENV2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 163aDt-00068z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 09:51:18 +0000 Message-ID: <007201c16c28$c5ac9c80$2a83153e@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3BEFF641.19014.181C6C3@localhost> <163R12-22KK1pC@fwd01.sul.t-online.com> Subject: Re: LF: Computer as DSP audio filter Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 09:09:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear OM, Uwe, DJ8WX wrote: > > Spectran is ok if u are contented with one filter. > > I do use "SbFFT by KW5Q" when dxing on sw or looking for spurious. with SbFFT u > can switch up to six individuel/independent filters. > > I don´t know any more where I did get that program. its amateur freeware > running on DOS level. windows or other Betriebssysteme should be off. > > guess Ko/NL9222 knows where u can get the software. > > if not, let me know. I could compress it down to a 1,8MB ZIP and e-mail it > direct. One filter is enough for me as even with two ears I can copy only one CW signal at the time (I know there are (have been?) professionals who could copy two signals simultaneously). I do have Spectran and will have some direct e-mail discussion with Alberto about some details how to use it. Thanks to all that have responded to my request. 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29430 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2001 00:40:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2001 00:40:26 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4310 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2001 00:40:26 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2001 00:40:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 163RW7-0001bc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 00:33:31 +0000 Received: from smtp1.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.91] helo=smtp2.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 163RW6-0001b3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 00:33:31 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.93.16]) by smtp2.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 20:28:37 -0400 Message-ID: <3BF0B0DA.1D3B0CB0@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 00:34:19 -0500 From: "john currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: transatlantic 73 es 136 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, I am very sorry about summer. I simply was not able to be QRV on LF this summer. Am now back at winter QTH and have started to set up receiving syatem. I hope to be able to listen shortly 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4546 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2001 00:10:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2001 00:10:54 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10983 invoked from network); 13 Nov 2001 00:10:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Nov 2001 00:10:58 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 163R1q-0001Vz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 00:02:14 +0000 Received: from mailout01.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.80] helo=mailout01.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 163R1p-0001Vu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 00:02:13 +0000 Received: from fwd01.sul.t-online.de by mailout01.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 163R15-0008RZ-04; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 01:01:27 +0100 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.156.6.218]) by fwd01.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 163R12-22KK1pC; Tue, 13 Nov 2001 01:01:24 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3BEFF641.19014.181C6C3@localhost> Subject: Re: LF: Computer as DSP audio filter X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Tue, 13 Nov 2001 01:01:24 +0100 Message-ID: <163R12-22KK1pC@fwd01.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike Dennison schrieb: > > I have been told there exists a computer program that not only presents > received > > signals as a waterfall display but can also make one of the signals being > heard > > as audio via the computer speakers. In that way the computer can act as a > DSP > > audio filter, perhaps even for normal speed CW provided an appropriate > bandwidth > > is selected. Anyone know more about this program? > > 73, Dick, PA0SE > > Dick, > > You probably mean the latest version of Spectran which has all of the usual > waterfall stuff, plus a very easy to use CW filter. The frequency display > shows the incoming signal, and also the edges of the filter which can be > adjusted simply by left or right clicking the mouse. You can easily separate > the wanted and interfering signal this way. > > Download it from http://www.qsl.net/padan/spectran.html > > > > > Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) > http://www.lf.thersgb.net > > Hi Dick, hi Mike, Spectran is ok if u are contented with one filter. I do use "SbFFT by KW5Q" when dxing on sw or looking for spurious. with SbFFT u can switch up to six individuel/independent filters. I don´t know any more where I did get that program. its amateur freeware running on DOS level. windows or other Betriebssysteme should be off. guess Ko/NL9222 knows where u can get the software. if not, let me know. I could compress it down to a 1,8MB ZIP and e-mail it direct. regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12159 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2001 16:36:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2001 16:36:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17448 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2001 16:37:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2001 16:37:03 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 163JwF-0000Mx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:27:59 +0000 Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 163JwE-0000Ms-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:27:58 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v5.0.0.R) for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:18:21 +0000 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:18:09 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Computer as DSP audio filter Message-ID: <3BEFF641.19014.181C6C3@localhost> In-reply-to: <005701c16b80$f8cf36c0$4d89153e@w8k3f0> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > I have been told there exists a computer program that not only presents received > signals as a waterfall display but can also make one of the signals being heard > as audio via the computer speakers. In that way the computer can act as a DSP > audio filter, perhaps even for normal speed CW provided an appropriate bandwidth > is selected. Anyone know more about this program? > 73, Dick, PA0SE Dick, You probably mean the latest version of Spectran which has all of the usual waterfall stuff, plus a very easy to use CW filter. The frequency display shows the incoming signal, and also the edges of the filter which can be adjusted simply by left or right clicking the mouse. You can easily separate the wanted and interfering signal this way. Download it from http://www.qsl.net/padan/spectran.html Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4953 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2001 16:21:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2001 16:21:05 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1180 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2001 16:20:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2001 16:20:52 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 163Jf2-0000Kn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:10:12 +0000 Received: from e31.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.129] helo=e31.bld.us.ibm.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 163Jey-0000Ki-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 16:10:08 +0000 Received: from westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com [9.99.140.22]) by e31.bld.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA41940 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 11:06:47 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss6.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.71]) by westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.00) with ESMTP id fACG9LR149054 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 09:09:21 -0700 Message-ID: <3BEFF401.3CF0E930@usa.net> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 17:08:33 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Computer as DSP audio filter References: <005701c16b80$f8cf36c0$4d89153e@w8k3f0> Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dick Rollema wrote:
Dear OM, I have been told there exists a computer program that not only presents received signals as a waterfall display but can also make one of the signals being heard as audio via the computer speakers.In that way the computer can act as a DSP audio filter, perhaps even for normal speed CW provided an appropriate bandwidth is selected.Anyone know more about this program? 73, Dick, PA0SE


Dick,
   if you go to http://www.weaksignals.com you can find, besides Argo, also Spectran,
which does what you ask for. It has a FIR bandpass filter with selectable edges, and
an IIR peaking filter, whose center frequency is adjustable. It has also an LMS denoiser
function, quite effective with CW, a bit less with SSB.

Any usage report is welcome.

73  Alberto  I2PHD
  From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18468 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2001 14:53:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2001 14:53:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4570 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2001 14:53:46 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2001 14:53:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 163ILh-00006u-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 14:46:09 +0000 Received: from ns3.swh.sk ([192.108.125.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 163ILf-00006p-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 14:46:08 +0000 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes.swh.sk [192.108.125.60]) by ns3.swh.sk (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fACEjJU05205 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 15:45:19 +0100 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id PAA11045 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 15:45:10 +0100 (MET) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 15:45:08 +0100 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E0333C071@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Computer as DSP audio filter Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 15:44:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit

Hi LF-ers...
 
I'm using sometimes  DSP Filter by JE3HHT, but you need a very fast computer to run it correctly.
 
Rich OM2TW
-----Original Message-----
From: Dick Rollema [mailto:d.w.rollema@freeler.nl]
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 2:49 PM
To: LF-Group
Subject: LF: Computer as DSP audio filter

Dear OM,
 
I have been told there exists a computer program that not only presents received signals as a waterfall display but can also make one of the signals being heard as audio via the computer speakers.
In that way the computer can act as a DSP audio filter, perhaps even for normal speed CW provided an appropriate bandwidth is selected.
Anyone know more about this program?
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11836 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2001 14:39:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2001 14:39:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 11783 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2001 14:39:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2001 14:39:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 163I8W-00005B-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 14:32:32 +0000 Received: from mail2.globocabo.com.br ([200.231.181.97] helo=ntweb.globocabo.com.br) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 163I8U-000056-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 14:32:31 +0000 Received: from spovdesi1625 (SPOVD-ESI-1625 [5.8.11.192]) by ntweb.globocabo.com.br with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id WYHNXYHJ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 12:25:22 -0300 Message-ID: <008101c16b86$c16cb080$c00b0805@globocabo.com.br> From: "PY3CRX PY2PLL" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <005701c16b80$f8cf36c0$4d89153e@w8k3f0> Subject: LF: Re: Computer as DSP audio filter Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 12:29:28 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Are you talking about the software published by DL4YHF (http://www.qsl.net/dl4yhf/ ) ? He did a waterfall/spectrum and a receiver from "DC" to 22.5KHz.
 
73
Marcus
PY3CRX/PY2PLL
S. B. do Campo - GG66rf
http://py.qsl.br
Active from "DC" to 24GHz
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Monday, November 12, 2001 11:48 AM
Subject: LF: Computer as DSP audio filter

Dear OM,
 
I have been told there exists a computer program that not only presents received signals as a waterfall display but can also make one of the signals being heard as audio via the computer speakers.
In that way the computer can act as a DSP audio filter, perhaps even for normal speed CW provided an appropriate bandwidth is selected.
Anyone know more about this program?
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28397 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2001 13:57:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2001 13:57:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 29513 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2001 13:57:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2001 13:57:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 163HUE-0008U0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 13:50:54 +0000 Received: from cmailenv1.svr.pol.co.uk ([213.218.77.53]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 163HUC-0008Tv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 13:50:53 +0000 Received: from [62.21.137.77] (helo=w8k3f0) by cmailENV1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 163HTW-0001ct-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 13:50:10 +0000 Message-ID: <005701c16b80$f8cf36c0$4d89153e@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Computer as DSP audio filter Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 14:48:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Dear OM,
 
I have been told there exists a computer program that not only presents received signals as a waterfall display but can also make one of the signals being heard as audio via the computer speakers.
In that way the computer can act as a DSP audio filter, perhaps even for normal speed CW provided an appropriate bandwidth is selected.
Anyone know more about this program?
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21795 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2001 12:46:38 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2001 12:46:38 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18918 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2001 12:46:44 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2001 12:46:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 163GC9-0008Ep-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 12:28:09 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 163GC7-0008Ek-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 12:28:08 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 163GBQ-00002y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 12:27:24 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 163GBL-0000zu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 12:27:19 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011112112617.00a7c6c8@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 12:27:17 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: Transatlantic tests 10/11 November MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Thanks for the reports on my signals for the weekend transatlantic test. I transmitted QRSS with 5s dots on 135.9250kHz (to avoid G0MRF's QRG), between about 2310 and 0350 utc. The QRN was strong, but as well as G0MRF, I could also see and hear DF6NM's DFCW signal at various times, so DX conditions must have been reasonable. After a rather cold, wet evening spent in the garden, I managed to put up a temporary 13.5m high mast under the middle of my inverted L antenna - this made it into an inverted V, 13.5m in the middle, about 8.5m and 10.5m at the ends, and 40m long. Antenna current was 4.8A. Since I have not used the antenna in this configuration before, I took the opportunity to do some field strength measurements while the tests were in progress. The average of 21 measurements came out to -0.03dBW, or 0.993W(!) ERP. Using EZNEC, I calculated the radiation resistance at 0.033ohms, and so the ERP to be 1.4W, so the difference between measured and calculated was 1.4dB. So it is possible to get 1W ERP with even this quite small antenna. At the same time, In the spaces between my dots and dashes, I also got some rough FS measurements of G0MRF's signal - David's ERP worked out to about 0.5W. I see that my signal showed up quite well on CT1DRP's automated receiving system - comparing this with G3NYK's DCF39 plot, there seems to be a reasonable correspondence, with both graphs showing a deep fade between midnight and 0100. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3233 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2001 12:06:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2001 12:06:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 8198 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2001 12:05:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2001 12:05:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 163Fif-00088F-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 11:57:41 +0000 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 163FiQ-00088A-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 11:57:27 +0000 Received: from [213.1.110.219] (helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 163Fhc-0006Ds-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 11:56:37 +0000 Message-ID: <000a01c16b71$15cb3540$db6e01d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Propagation (Sat & Sun) Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 11:50:18 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------010805060007070309020508" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010805060007070309020508 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, as the GIF plot got through the reflector, I will push my luck with another one. Thanks again to Brian CT1DRP for his efforts in systematically logging DCF39. I did not say before, but the horizontal axis is 24 hours starting 0600z , and the legend for the plots is the date of the the extreme right-hand side i.e 12/11 finishes at 0600z on the 12th Nov. The X-axis only shows the first digit of the hours time (a function of the number of points on the plot) so you will have to 'count them up'. The black line is again an average calculated for about 15 'quiet' days in Spetember, so the normal sunrise / sunset times do not align with the weekend plot. Look only at the averge daytime and night-time levels. Sunday (blue) was if anything a better day than Saturday as the enhancement lasted longer. It is only a pity as Rich said that the static was so high. Once again night-time conditions do not look too bad, but bear in mind this (one hop path) does not relate well to two-hop trans-Atlantic paths where the absorbtion with be 10 to 20dB greater. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com --------------010805060007070309020508 Content-Type: image/gif; name="DCF12NOV.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="DCF12NOV.gif" R0lGODdhRwKGAfcAAAAAAAAA//8AAP////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 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LdZmrdZuLdd27ZuaoteG7VD5YH+Krdma37ryGzfym9CerdtmU7Q5qpzM7dvWrS0vjlO2+KC2 hKjd9q2F/GwwLU6NJa3fFq7hHi7iJq7iLi7jNq7jPi7kRq7kTi7lVq7lBqtAqW0N+mrmbu7l Zq0PYQ82xQnZtCxA9mLojt/nqul0jMpGBQ2dFJnsCtbrli3LTtshJSrp7u3qCivdam6xHM4Z vqTu9M6ktG3vHurvkm1RBB3wxt62BKHuEm7yui3yVi/2Zq/2bi/3dq/3fi/4hq/4ji/5li8S BQQAADs= --------------010805060007070309020508-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4947 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2001 11:27:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2001 11:27:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28675 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2001 11:27:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2001 11:27:30 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 163F6J-000837-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 11:18:03 +0000 Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 163F6I-000832-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 11:18:02 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v5.0.0.R) for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 11:10:16 +0000 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 11:10:05 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Propagation Sat 10 Nov Message-ID: <3BEFAE0D.32038.67BCE5@localhost> In-reply-to: <000901c16b10$ced81140$3e9501d5@default> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > ........... You will notice nearly a 30 dB enhancement over ' normal' > daytime conditions, lasting about 2.5 hours, as predicted earlier in the week. I > have never seen the daytime signals so high compared with the nightime levels. I > hope you all worked lots of DX.....or did it mean that the noise levels were > intolerable? Cheers de Alan G3NYK The noise levels were very high over the weekend, especially on Saturday, and the QRN from the storms raging over Algeria was very bad indeed. In particular I noticed the evening Luxemburg effect on DCF39 spreading well into the band producing S9 noise over the QRSS section. Managed QSOs with G6RO and G3OLB. Heard G3JKV and G3KEV. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2571 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2001 09:27:15 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2001 09:27:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22584 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2001 09:27:02 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2001 09:27:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 163DA4-0007l1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 09:13:48 +0000 Received: from ns3.swh.sk ([192.108.125.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 163D9z-0007kr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 09:13:44 +0000 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes.swh.sk [192.108.125.60]) by ns3.swh.sk (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id fAC9CtU15652 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 10:12:55 +0100 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA06783 for ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 10:12:47 +0100 (MET) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 10:12:44 +0100 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E0333C06B@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: Last weekend... Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 10:12:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi LF-ers... A lot of static during the weekend. I've worked only Christer SM6PXJ and that's all. I heard some stations calling me, but the static level was very high for weak signal reception. In 2-3 weeks I'll visit my second LF "two towers" QTH again. I'll inform you about datails very soon. 73 and best regards... de Rich OM2TW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28865 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2001 00:33:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2001 00:33:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 10360 invoked from network); 12 Nov 2001 00:33:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Nov 2001 00:33:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1634xp-0006jm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 00:28:37 +0000 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1634xn-0006jh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 00:28:35 +0000 Received: from [213.1.149.62] (helo=default) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 1634ww-000795-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 00:27:42 +0000 Message-ID: <000901c16b10$ced81140$3e9501d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Propagation Sat 10 Nov Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 00:26:23 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060302050806020301020309" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060302050806020301020309 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, I was fairly busy and did not listen on Saturday, but I will risk a hand slap and post the attached graph to the reflector as I think you will be interested. The black line shows a average of about 15 'normal' days in September when there were no disturbances (being that much earlier in the year, it does align in sunrise / sunset times with the red graph for Saturday ....just look at the typical daytime levels) The red graph show the levels of DCF39 at CT1DRP on Saturday. You will notice nearly a 30 dB enhancement over ' normal' daytime conditions, lasting about 2.5 hours, as predicted earlier in the week. I have never seen the daytime signals so high compared with the nightime levels. I hope you all worked lots of DX.....or did it mean that the noise levels were intolerable? Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com --------------060302050806020301020309 Content-Type: image/gif; name="DCF11NOV.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="DCF11NOV.gif" R0lGODdhOgKCAfcAAAAAAP8AAP////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 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/Tj2almGZc2+tVrybF27Ve/mVSm35N+RgQWnpTmYL+GthcUCbuv4MeTIkidTrmz5MubMmjdz 7uz5M+jQokeTLm36NOrUqlezbu36NezYsmfTrm37Nu7cunfz7u37N/DgwocTL278OPLkypcz b+78OfTo0qdTr279OvbTi7Nm7+79O3jKTenyJB/+PPr06nEuFDn+sMnD6+fTr1/8IH6Df9+b zW//P4AB4hYfUk3x995cAiq4IIOSyTUTgTIVmGCDFVp4IYYZarghhx16+CGIIYo4Ioklmngi iimquCKLLbr4IowxyjgjjTXa2CF//Tl4biOPPX52EZASthdZkEICiV98Piq55D8BOPkklAbx FNF4fj34IFdHCmmkjkx6+aWURlFZnmNImpkflmaCuSaYBnJl3lpuDqkmSNuxeSeenMmXJ599 +vknoIEKOiihhRp6KKKJKrooo406+iikggYEADs= --------------060302050806020301020309-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4713 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2001 23:40:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2001 23:40:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 7597 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2001 23:40:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2001 23:40:17 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16345f-0006YG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 23:32:39 +0000 Received: from mailout06.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.19] helo=mailout06.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16345e-0006YB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 23:32:39 +0000 Received: from fwd06.sul.t-online.de by mailout06.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 16344r-0008Oh-05; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 00:31:49 +0100 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.156.6.180]) by fwd06.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 16344f-20mu3cC; Mon, 12 Nov 2001 00:31:37 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3BEC286C.1CEF26EC@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: LF: 10Watt HF out X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 00:31:37 +0100 Message-ID: <16344f-20mu3cC@fwd06.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, I just finished QSO on 136,5 kHz in CW with Reino/OH1TN. ok, that´s not exciting. but this is: the distance of 1175 km has been managed with the 10 W HF predriver of my new (incomplete) trx. the program TANT136 says 0,0W radiated power. I did hear Reino RST 5 8 9 calling CQ . I responded and ..... BINGO ! he received my emission RST 339. guess the condx are vy good presently. but nothing from CFH to be seen. regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14170 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2001 23:35:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2001 23:35:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 4504 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2001 23:35:45 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2001 23:35:45 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16340a-0006Xc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 23:27:24 +0000 Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.101]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16340Z-0006XV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 23:27:23 +0000 Received: from northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (northrelay01.pok.ibm.com [9.117.200.21]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA437174 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 18:23:32 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss7.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.72]) by northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.00) with ESMTP id fABNQ5Q57932 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 18:26:05 -0500 Message-ID: <3BEF08E3.CC56A875@usa.net> Date: Mon, 12 Nov 2001 00:25:23 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Transatlantic Tests References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011109175651.00a64738@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <001001c16a42$121f1fe0$9490153e@w8k3f0> <3BEE6A88.739A88F9@usa.net> <162zlU-0OXTbUC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by e1.ny.us.ibm.com id SAA437174 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: jannsen wrote: > [...] > Hi Alberto, hi Dick, > > I too saw Jim´s "0BMU" on 135925Hz. S/N: -46/-75dB. > Hi Uwe, thanks. It is reassuring to know that my receiver behaves still well :-) The preamp of my loop is in maintenance mode, so I have used the 80m dipole, untuned, to receive Jim's signals, and I couldn't be sure to have copied correctly the call sign. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26248 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2001 19:02:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2001 19:02:00 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8468 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2001 19:01:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2001 19:01:50 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162zmc-00064B-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 18:56:42 +0000 Received: from mailout00.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.16] helo=mailout00.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162zma-000646-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 18:56:40 +0000 Received: from fwd05.sul.t-online.de by mailout00.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 162zlu-0006VQ-01; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 19:55:58 +0100 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.227.109.122]) by fwd05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 162zlU-0OXTbUC; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 19:55:32 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011109175651.00a64738@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <001001c16a42$121f1fe0$9490153e@w8k3f0> <3BEE6A88.739A88F9@usa.net> Subject: Re: LF: Re: Transatlantic Tests X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------010505080307010709080905" Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 19:55:32 +0100 Message-ID: <162zlU-0OXTbUC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010505080307010709080905 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Alberto di Bene schrieb: > Dick Rollema wrote: > > > Dear Old Man, > > > > Received Jim M0MBU November 10 at 2330 UTC with a field strength of 13.5 > > microvolt/metre. > > > > I also have received a signal, which could have been that of Jim, but I was > using an untuned > string of wire (not even 'wet'...), so cannot be sure. > But I noticed that the QRG was 135.925 and not 135.922 as announced. > Is my receiver off by as much as three Hertz (I hope not...), was Jim > transmitting > as a matter of facts at 135.925, or wasn't that the signal of Jim ? > > 73 Alberto I2PHD Hi Alberto, hi Dick, I too saw Jim´s "0BMU" on 135925Hz. S/N: -46/-75dB. On 135922Hz I caught (DF)6NM in DFCW. see attachment. regards Uwe/dj8wx --------------010505080307010709080905 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="6NM1.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="6NM1.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEBLAEsAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRof Hh0aHBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwh MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAAR CAA+AXkDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA AgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkK FhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWG h4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl 5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEAAwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREA AgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSExBhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYk NOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElKU1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOE 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a/7b/tP7KP7V+1+b9m+0/Lu8vzPl+95mPI/d4zn/AJZ12NFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUU UUAFFFFABRRRQB//2Q== --------------010505080307010709080905-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14432 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2001 12:18:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2001 12:18:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8514 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2001 12:18:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2001 12:18:35 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162tSG-0005P1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 12:11:16 +0000 Received: from e31.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.129] helo=e31.bld.us.ibm.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162tSF-0005Ow-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 12:11:15 +0000 Received: from westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com [9.99.140.22]) by e31.bld.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA23722 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 07:07:52 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss6.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.71]) by westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.00) with ESMTP id fABCAR140628 for ; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 05:10:27 -0700 Message-ID: <3BEE6A88.739A88F9@usa.net> Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 13:09:44 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Transatlantic Tests References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011109175651.00a64738@gemini.herts.ac.uk> <001001c16a42$121f1fe0$9490153e@w8k3f0> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dick Rollema wrote: > Dear Old Man, > > Received Jim M0MBU November 10 at 2330 UTC with a field strength of 13.5 > microvolt/metre. > I also have received a signal, which could have been that of Jim, but I was using an untuned string of wire (not even 'wet'...), so cannot be sure. But I noticed that the QRG was 135.925 and not 135.922 as announced. Is my receiver off by as much as three Hertz (I hope not...), was Jim transmitting as a matter of facts at 135.925, or wasn't that the signal of Jim ? 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11011 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2001 10:36:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2001 10:36:08 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9920 invoked from network); 11 Nov 2001 10:36:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Nov 2001 10:36:07 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162ro5-0005CY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 10:25:41 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162ro4-0005CT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 10:25:40 +0000 Received: from ldsas17-81-132-76.cw-visp.com ([212.137.132.76] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 162rdl-00058A-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Nov 2001 10:15:02 +0000 Message-ID: <3BEE51E1.E45048FC@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 10:24:33 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: QRN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The qrn this past couple of days has been severe S9 plus long crashes and not good for weak signal reception, otherwise propogation looks good. Best dx this weekend so far OK1DTN worked through the qrn racket. I did not transmit last night. There would be no chance of hearing a weak transatlantic signal through the static if anthing developed. I checked the band before midnight and again at 0200 but still bad but I did hear a slow morse transmission around 135.85 khz at only S7. I did not wait long enough to identify the signal, I would imagine this signal would be difficult to copy in VE/W or SV8 if it was only S7 with me. The static is as strong as ever this morning. I am getting my 16 ft dish set up again for AO 40. This satellite has great coverage throughout the world all day and is qrn free with a round trip of approx 90,000 kilometres. So its back to microwave technology again, pipe bending, helical feeds and gasfet preamps. I will soon be looking for xband qso,s LF and Satellite. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23099 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2001 23:55:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2001 23:55:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 564 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2001 23:55:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2001 23:55:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162hr9-0003xk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 23:48:11 +0000 Received: from cmailenv1.svr.pol.co.uk ([213.218.77.53]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162hr8-0003xf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 23:48:10 +0000 Received: from [62.21.144.148] (helo=w8k3f0) by cmailENV1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 162hqT-0001CW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 23:47:29 +0000 Message-ID: <001001c16a42$121f1fe0$9490153e@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.1.0.14.0.20011109175651.00a64738@gemini.herts.ac.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Transatlantic Tests Date: Sun, 11 Nov 2001 00:46:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Old Man, Received Jim M0MBU November 10 at 2330 UTC with a field strength of 13.5 microvolt/metre. 73, Dick, PA0SE ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- Van: James Moritz Aan: Verzonden: vrijdag 9 november 2001 19:10 Onderwerp: LF: Transatlantic Tests > Dear LF group, > > I find myself without a decent "transatlantic" antenna at the moment, due > to someone having borrowed my cherry picker. However, I will try to put > something together for the night of 10th/11th - will be interesting to see > if transatlantic signals can be achieved with an even wetter bit of string > than before. Does anyone have preferences for frequencies/modes? I suppose > the bottom of the band around 135.92x kHz would be sensible. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3952 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2001 13:43:11 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2001 13:43:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26047 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2001 13:43:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2001 13:43:00 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162YLl-0002wQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 13:39:09 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162YLl-0002wL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 13:39:09 +0000 Received: from blanch.pncl.co.uk (167.235.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.235.167]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id fAADcTR08304 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 13:38:29 GMT Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011110133722.00a13780@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 13:38:03 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: Re: LF: litz In-reply-to: <3BECEB51.E1FF8BF7@qsl.net> References: <3BEAE0B4.4A1B0B0B@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 09:54 10/11/01 Saturday +0100, you wrote: >Is there still some of this Decca Litz wire available? Where? > >Heinz, OE5EEP Heinz, let me know how much you'd like and I will arrange. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29045 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2001 12:29:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2001 12:29:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 27764 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2001 12:29:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2001 12:29:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162XCY-0002p3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 12:25:34 +0000 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.89]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162XCX-0002oy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 12:25:33 +0000 Received: from boxernet.demon.co.uk ([194.222.47.214] helo=TRIXY) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 162XBo-000CBf-0V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 12:24:50 +0000 From: "Michael Probert" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: litz Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 12:24:08 -0800 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <157.3cc18a2.291e6bec@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
In the last e mail from Derek G3GRO his address was--- datter@compuserve.com
Regards
 
Mike  GW4HXO.
-----Original Message-----

 >>>>>>>>>>> Subject: Re: LF: litz

In a message dated 11/10/01 8:59:04 AM GMT Standard Time, oe5eep@qsl.net writes:



Is there still some of this Decca Litz wire available? Where?

Heinz, OE5EEP




Try an e-mail to Derek G3GRO.  Anyone know the address?

73

David  <<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18668 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2001 11:50:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2001 11:50:32 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 13275 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2001 11:50:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2001 11:50:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162WXi-0002jv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 11:43:22 +0000 Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162WXg-0002jq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 11:43:20 +0000 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.8.) id l.157.3cc18a2 (18255) for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 06:39:25 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <157.3cc18a2.291e6bec@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 06:39:24 EST Subject: Re: LF: litz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 10505 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit In a message dated 11/10/01 8:59:04 AM GMT Standard Time, oe5eep@qsl.net writes:



Is there still some of this Decca Litz wire available? Where?

Heinz, OE5EEP




Try an e-mail to Derek G3GRO.  Anyone know the address?

73

David From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2904 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2001 09:00:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2001 09:00:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27763 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2001 09:00:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2001 09:00:04 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162TvH-0002SW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 08:55:31 +0000 Received: from relay8.austria.eu.net ([193.154.160.146]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162TvG-0002SP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 08:55:30 +0000 Received: from qsl.net (dialup158.ap02-ried.AT.KPNQwest.net [193.154.148.158]) by relay8.austria.eu.net (8.12.0.Beta10/8.12.0.Beta10) with ESMTP id fAA8sl5L000898 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 09:54:48 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <3BECEB51.E1FF8BF7@qsl.net> Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 09:54:41 +0100 From: "Heinz Schnait" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-NECCK (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: de, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: litz References: <3BEAE0B4.4A1B0B0B@netscapeonline.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Is there still some of this Decca Litz wire available? Where? Heinz, OE5EEP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7976 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2001 08:25:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2001 08:25:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 10708 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2001 08:25:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2001 08:25:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162TNP-0002Ow-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 08:20:31 +0000 Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162TNN-0002Om-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 08:20:29 +0000 Received: from modem-90.amrod.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.105.218] helo=g3aqc) by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 162TMf-00011k-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 08:19:46 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c169c0$6af409a0$da69883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. Aerials and ground loss. Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 08:11:11 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thats very interesting Alan. I had been intending to repeat my original measurments,paying closer attention to the figures,but the recent cold Wx kept me indoors! I look foreward very much to seeing your results. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12629 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2001 08:25:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2001 08:25:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 10511 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2001 08:25:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2001 08:25:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162TNP-0002Ox-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 08:20:31 +0000 Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162TNN-0002On-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 08:20:29 +0000 Received: from modem-90.amrod.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.105.218] helo=g3aqc) by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 162TMh-00011k-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 08:19:47 +0000 Message-ID: <000301c169c0$6bdf05e0$da69883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re 73kHz beacon Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 08:18:19 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks Marcus for the screenshot.Its the best I have seen and very readable,the DFCW format certainly does reduce the time required to pass a message,so there is hope for two way contacts over difficult paths. The pic. also confirms that I have solved the freq. stability problem that showed up with 120secdots even if I did have to rebuild part of the exciter to do it Hi ! Looks like your simple coil/loop is working well also. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22185 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2001 03:33:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2001 03:33:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 24108 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2001 03:33:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2001 03:33:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162Ood-0001sn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 03:28:19 +0000 Received: from smtp4.ihug.co.nz ([203.109.252.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162Ooc-0001si-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 03:28:18 +0000 Received: from p150 (p164-tnt1.chc.ihug.co.nz [203.173.227.164]) by smtp4.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id QAA15054 for ; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 16:27:20 +1300 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp4.ihug.co.nz: Host p164-tnt1.chc.ihug.co.nz [203.173.227.164] claimed to be p150 Message-ID: <022501c16996$4f5a1880$a4e3adcb@p150> From: "Dave Brown" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <155.3badb82.291bfd5c@aol.com> <00aa01c16876$8416c940$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> Subject: Re: LF: Re: Ringing Voltage on Telephone , boo-boo Date: Sat, 10 Nov 2001 16:17:41 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Here in ZL the line voltage (nominally 50) is reversed behind the low freq ringing as well- lotsa PBXs use the line reversal these days and not the actual low freq ringing signal- makes for faster call answering. So in total one has a total transverse voltage of 50 plus peak ringing to contend with- in our case nominally 80 vac ringing gives a total of just over 160 volts. Since the A leg is basically at or near dc ground potential thats as bad as it gets-within a few volts- using locally ground referenced test gear. 73 Dave Brown, ZL3FJ Christchurch New Zealand ----- Original Message ----- From: John Andrews To: Sent: Friday, November 09, 2001 5:57 AM Subject: Re: LF: Re: Ringing Voltage on Telephone , boo-boo > Larry, > > I'm with John Davis on this one. The U.S. practice is 20 Hz for ringing -- > nothing at 1 kHz. > > John Andrews, W1TAG > > > Larry, I have done. My statement was based on having checked it > personally > > on a number of Bell and non-Bell exchanges over the years. As I said, it > may > > be different in Canada, but here it's 20Hz. > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2055 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2001 02:20:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2001 02:20:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17805 invoked from network); 10 Nov 2001 02:20:55 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Nov 2001 02:20:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162NdL-0001jx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 02:12:35 +0000 Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162NdK-0001js-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Nov 2001 02:12:34 +0000 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.8.) id l.170.3afc82a (3992) for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 21:11:18 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <170.3afc82a.291de6c6@aol.com> Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 21:11:18 EST Subject: Re: LF: 73kHz Beacon To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 72 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Laurie, nice DFCW signal here around 01:45 UT on 72401.26 / .33 Hz. Between the static crashes, it's just audible on the indoor loop. Hope you make it across the pond... 73 de Markus, DF6NM (JN59NK) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21384 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2001 19:12:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2001 19:12:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 12165 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2001 19:13:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2001 19:13:04 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162Gxc-0000jh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2001 19:05:04 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162Gxb-0000jc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2001 19:05:03 +0000 Received: from ldsas19-83-134-166.cw-visp.com ([212.137.134.166] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 162GnV-0005TR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2001 18:54:38 +0000 Message-ID: <3BEC286C.1CEF26EC@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 19:03:08 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: 136 ACTY Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello to all DX operators. I will try and be active on normal cw around 4-10wpm from 2000z 10/11/01. QRG 135.999 khz plus or minus other active stations to avoid qrm. Will try and be on all during the night/early morning. All qso's or listener reports appreciated. I will also listen on 7030/14030 khz for xband or 2 way hf. QSK working, just call if you hear me. Band condx on LF very good at present apart from the odd local rain/snow storm when the qrn/static gets bad. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21319 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2001 18:46:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2001 18:46:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 25716 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2001 18:46:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2001 18:46:08 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162GaZ-0000dH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2001 18:41:15 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162GaX-0000dC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2001 18:41:13 +0000 Received: from ldsas16-80-131-194.cw-visp.com ([212.137.131.194] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 162GQP-0003nu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2001 18:30:46 +0000 Message-ID: <3BEC22E9.B2BFEEB9@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 18:39:37 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic Anyone? References: <60.166a0a75.291b302f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit  

G0MRF@aol.com wrote:

Hello.

My friend is due to move from his 15th floor flat next week and has asked if I would like to oeprate from the West London tower block for one last time this weekend.

With 800 Watts and a 170 foot top fed vertical I hope to be on 136k QRSS from 23.30 on the 10 November to about 03.30 the following morning.

I am particually interested in any station on the other side of  Atlantic (or Eastern Europe etc.) who would like to either listen for the signals or try a crossband QSO.

I'll post the frequency (s) and a contact phone number if there is any interest.

BTW - There's a picture of the site at www.g0mrf.freeserve.co.uk/atlantic

Hi David.
Did you have any response. I was interested. I was going to transmit normal cw if anyone was listening VE/W. I do have a friend near Boston/USA who is a professional Radio Officer and is getting set up to listen for me.I have been heard on normal cw over a year ago by a /MM off the east coast USA, unfortunately he does not sail the route often. Getting someone at these dx locations seems difficult. The same applies easterly. I have been heard in EA6 but that is not that far away.
Have been trying to get a couple of amateurs in Cyprus to listen and get active but because of the size of antennas required and the very low activity on the band they are not too keen.
I have contacts in other places also listening but they do not have the antennas suitable or resonant
for the job, so its pot luck being heard.

de G3KEV
 

 

73

David  G0MRF
 
 
 

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20517 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2001 18:16:23 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2001 18:16:23 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3699 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2001 18:16:14 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2001 18:16:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162G7n-0000Xg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2001 18:11:31 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162G7m-0000Xb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2001 18:11:30 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 162G72-0006kI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2001 18:10:44 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=rsch-15.herts.ac.uk) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 162G70-0001PJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2001 18:10:42 +0000 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011109175651.00a64738@gemini.herts.ac.uk> X-Sender: mj9ar@gemini.herts.ac.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 18:10:41 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "James Moritz" Subject: LF: Transatlantic Tests MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF group, I find myself without a decent "transatlantic" antenna at the moment, due to someone having borrowed my cherry picker. However, I will try to put something together for the night of 10th/11th - will be interesting to see if transatlantic signals can be achieved with an even wetter bit of string than before. Does anyone have preferences for frequencies/modes? I suppose the bottom of the band around 135.92x kHz would be sensible. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16682 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2001 18:00:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2001 18:00:39 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22303 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2001 18:00:30 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2001 18:00:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162FpQ-0000TE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2001 17:52:32 +0000 Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.161]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162FpP-0000T9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2001 17:52:31 +0000 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.8.) id c.60.168b1480 (4420); Fri, 9 Nov 2001 12:51:06 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <60.168b1480.291d7189@aol.com> Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 12:51:05 EST Subject: LF: Re: Transatlantic Anyone? To: sv8qg@otenet.gr Cc: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 10505 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit In a message dated 11/9/01 2:50:39 PM GMT Standard Time, sv8qg@otenet.gr writes:


Subj:LF: Re: Transatlantic Anyone?
Date:11/9/01 2:50:39 PM GMT Standard Time
From:    sv8qg@otenet.gr (ALEX DELIGIANNIS)
Sender:    majordom@post.thorcom.com
Reply-to:    rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
To:    rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org




PLEASE FOR EXACT QRG. I'LL QRV -RX ONLY- 73'S ALEX SV8QG



FB  Alex

QRG   135.922   23.00 - 03.30

Will be sending Slow CW with 5 second dots    -  G0MRF MRF MRF

Can work you cross band to 20m at normal speed if you would like to try.
Will be listening for USA etc for 5mins on 14.045 CW  at 23.30  / 00.00 / 00.30 etc.

73

David  G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9201 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2001 16:55:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2001 16:55:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 827 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2001 16:55:41 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2001 16:55:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162Enx-0000E2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2001 16:46:57 +0000 Received: from smtp1.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.91] helo=smtp2.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162Enu-0000Dx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2001 16:46:54 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.51.126]) by smtp2.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 12:42:34 -0400 Message-ID: <3BEC09E6.4D566BA0@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 12:52:55 -0400 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic Anyone? References: <60.166a0a75.291b302f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi Dave will try to get on .  Also send me ur address.
   73 de John VE1ZJ

G0MRF@aol.com wrote:

Hello.

My friend is due to move from his 15th floor flat next week and has asked if I would like to oeprate from the West London tower block for one last time this weekend.

With 800 Watts and a 170 foot top fed vertical I hope to be on 136k QRSS from 23.30 on the 10 November to about 03.30 the following morning.

I am particually interested in any station on the other side of  Atlantic (or Eastern Europe etc.) who would like to either listen for the signals or try a crossband QSO.

I'll post the frequency (s) and a contact phone number if there is any interest.

BTW - There's a picture of the site at www.g0mrf.freeserve.co.uk/atlantic

73

David  G0MRF
 
 
 

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28792 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2001 14:54:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2001 14:54:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 26410 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2001 14:54:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2001 14:54:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162Ctp-0008LB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2001 14:44:53 +0000 Received: from mailsrv.otenet.gr ([195.170.0.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 162Ctn-0008L6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2001 14:44:51 +0000 Received: from 1 (myti530-a055.otenet.gr [212.205.251.183]) by mailsrv.otenet.gr (8.11.5/8.11.5) with SMTP id fA9Ei4B13557 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 16:44:05 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <003601c1692d$00011400$b7fbcdd4@1> From: "ALEX DELIGIANNIS" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <60.166a0a75.291b302f@aol.com> Subject: LF: Re: Transatlantic Anyone? Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 16:43:47 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
PLEASE FOR EXACT QRG. I'LL QRV -RX ONLY- 73'S ALEX SV8QG
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 2:47 AM
Subject: LF: Transatlantic Anyone?

Hello.

My friend is due to move from his 15th floor flat next week and has asked if I would like to oeprate from the West London tower block for one last time this weekend.

With 800 Watts and a 170 foot top fed vertical I hope to be on 136k QRSS from 23.30 on the 10 November to about 03.30 the following morning.

I am particually interested in any station on the other side of  Atlantic (or Eastern Europe etc.) who would like to either listen for the signals or try a crossband QSO.

I'll post the frequency (s) and a contact phone number if there is any interest.

BTW - There's a picture of the site at www.g0mrf.freeserve.co.uk/atlantic

73

David  G0MRF



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21761 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2001 10:59:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2001 10:59:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 20404 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2001 10:59:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2001 10:59:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1629Fb-0007dv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2001 10:51:07 +0000 Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1629Fa-0007dq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2001 10:51:07 +0000 Received: from modem-97.durin.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.162.97] helo=g3aqc) by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 1629Ev-00034x-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2001 10:50:25 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c1690c$4bbbafc0$61a2883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 73kHz Beacon Date: Fri, 9 Nov 2001 10:49:10 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi , I will tramsmit tonight 9/11/2001 and Sunday night 11/11/2001 (Saturday clear for Davids 136 attempt).Frequency 72.401.5kHz Hope this freq clear. My frequency now much more stable. Mode DFCW. 0.1Hz shift, 120 sec dots.Power 250mW from Decca TX running 800W ! Ant. 50ft. vert .x 600ft. top load. Propagation condx .not too bad, at least I hope ! Recieving conditions here much better than last spring, now running SPM19 with 25Hz bandwidth so very willing to listen/watch for any long distance transmission 136kHz or 73 just let me know. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18103 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2001 10:20:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2001 10:20:13 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23657 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2001 10:20:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2001 10:20:11 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1628a0-0007VK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2001 10:08:08 +0000 Received: from e21.nc.us.ibm.com ([32.97.136.227]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1628Zw-0007VF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2001 10:08:04 +0000 Received: from southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.208]) by e21.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA109700 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 04:04:36 -0600 Received: from usa.net (ss9.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.75]) by southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.00) with ESMTP id fA9A71o47094 for ; Fri, 9 Nov 2001 05:07:16 -0500 Message-ID: <3BEBAA9C.1FA8A511@usa.net> Date: Fri, 09 Nov 2001 11:06:20 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Mailing List" Subject: LF: Special VLF Test broadcast (147 kHz) coming up soon Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have just received this, and maybe is of interest for some of you. 73 Alberto I2PHD ----------------------------------------------------------------- This was just received via the NDB group, with request to spread the word: Low frequency transmission on behalf of Guglielmo Marconi The National Weather Service (NWS) of Germany transmits a special broadcast for all friends of wireless on the centuary event of Guglielmo Marconi's first reception of radio signals across the North Atlantic. Listen to the multi lingual telegraph broadcast in Morse Code over DDH47 located at Pinneberg (54.7N 9.6E) on 147,3 kHz , 12th December 2001 22:30 GMT. Info (www.dwd.de/services/gfsf/sf100y.html) Amateur Radio Group of National Maritime Agency (BSH), Hamburg and Deutscher Wetterdienst (DWD), Hamburg call DL0SWA best regards Trond at ALFLAB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29936 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2001 02:53:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2001 02:53:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21874 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2001 02:53:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2001 02:53:01 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1621f1-0006Je-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2001 02:44:51 +0000 Received: from m11.boston.juno.com ([64.136.24.74]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1621f0-0006JZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2001 02:44:50 +0000 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"yokUgcxCbtTP7XLrpefewIS9VH/YcmYuaZNnpzGzfvcQ/UQW3MVtEw=="> Received: (from riese-k3djc@juno.com) by m11.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id GKR6V967; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 21:43:58 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 21:37:34 -0500 Subject: Re: LF: Re: Ringing Voltage on Telephone , boo-boo Message-ID: <20011108.214159.-729455.0.riese-k3djc@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-12,14,16,18-26,28-47 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "BOB RIESE" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Well In Pennsylvania Verizon The ring freq consists of 5 tones to handle 5 party lines and or 10 party reverse side ringing ( No more ,,,not sure if we have any other than 2 party lines ) 16, 25, 33, 50 ,66 cycles was the frequency. When it was Step X Step mechanical the ring generators were 100 watt motor driven today they use 25 watt generators and can divide the load between many generators. Because of timed ringing schemes the small generator could handle many 1000s of phone ringing, All I can think of that used 1000 Hz modulated at 10/20 cycles was pre in band signaling that used a tone like this to disconnect the far end of a trunk ckt. that was up for testing. I have a nice chrome plated whistle that was blown into the receiver and produces 1000 Hz at a 10/20 cycle modulated rate the only standard is what the telco started out with 100 Years ago Nice string even if off topic Bob K3DJC On Thu, 8 Nov 2001 19:06:19 -0500 "John Andrews" writes: > >----- Original Message ----- >From: Larry Kayser >To: >Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 5:57 PM >Subject: Re: LF: Re: Ringing Voltage on Telephone , boo-boo > > >> Have you actually looked? > >Yessir... I'm in the telcom equipment business. I'm not claiming that >you're >wrong, Larry... just that the normal U.S. ringing signal is plain old >20 Hz >AC. > >John Andrews, W1TAG (Comrex Corp.) > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28227 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2001 00:12:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2001 00:12:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 20995 invoked from network); 9 Nov 2001 00:12:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Nov 2001 00:12:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161zDr-0005u2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2001 00:08:39 +0000 Received: from dc-mx07.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.17] helo=dc-mx07.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161zDq-0005tw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Nov 2001 00:08:38 +0000 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johncellar) by dc-mx07.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 43039400 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 19:18:01 -0500 Message-ID: <001301c168b2$677d0b00$0300a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <155.3badb82.291bfd5c@aol.com> <00aa01c16876$8416c940$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> <005c01c168a9$620ee6b0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> Subject: Re: LF: Re: Ringing Voltage on Telephone , boo-boo Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 19:06:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Kayser To: Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 5:57 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: Ringing Voltage on Telephone , boo-boo > Have you actually looked? Yessir... I'm in the telcom equipment business. I'm not claiming that you're wrong, Larry... just that the normal U.S. ringing signal is plain old 20 Hz AC. John Andrews, W1TAG (Comrex Corp.) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15091 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2001 23:17:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2001 23:17:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 5921 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2001 23:17:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2001 23:17:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161yCn-0005dy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 23:03:29 +0000 Received: from tomts14.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.35] helo=tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161yCh-0005dt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 23:03:28 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.209.138.148]) by tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20011108230210.EAYF21779.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 18:02:10 -0500 Message-ID: <005c01c168a9$620ee6b0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <155.3badb82.291bfd5c@aol.com> <00aa01c16876$8416c940$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> Subject: Re: LF: Re: Ringing Voltage on Telephone , boo-boo Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 17:57:10 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Have you actually looked? ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Andrews" To: Sent: Thursday, November 08, 2001 11:57 Subject: Re: LF: Re: Ringing Voltage on Telephone , boo-boo > Larry, > > I'm with John Davis on this one. The U.S. practice is 20 Hz for ringing -- > nothing at 1 kHz. > > John Andrews, W1TAG > > > Larry, I have done. My statement was based on having checked it > personally > > on a number of Bell and non-Bell exchanges over the years. As I said, it > may > > be different in Canada, but here it's 20Hz. > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9463 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2001 19:57:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2001 19:57:12 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28390 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2001 19:57:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2001 19:57:09 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161vCn-00055O-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 19:51:17 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161vCm-00055J-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 19:51:16 +0000 Received: from ldsas18-82-133-70.cw-visp.com ([212.137.133.70] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 161v2i-0006sv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 19:40:53 +0000 Message-ID: <3BEAE0B4.4A1B0B0B@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 19:44:52 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: litz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The litz wire used on Decca large antenna coils consists of 729 strands. There might be variations. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22649 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2001 18:12:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2001 18:12:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 19542 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2001 18:12:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2001 18:12:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161taT-0004n7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 18:07:37 +0000 Received: from cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.177]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161taS-0004n2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 18:07:36 +0000 Received: from modem-110.angband.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.111.110] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 161tZm-0002bf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 18:06:54 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c16880$1b113660$6e6f883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re.Transatlantic Anyone ? Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 17:46:03 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In view of Davids Tower Block T/A attempt on 10/11 Nov, I will not be transmitting on 73kHz that night. I hope condx will be favourable. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 711 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2001 17:08:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2001 17:08:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 24537 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2001 17:08:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2001 17:08:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161sUF-0004ZP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 16:57:07 +0000 Received: from antiochus-fe0.ultra.net ([146.115.8.188]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161sUC-0004ZK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 16:57:05 +0000 Received: from comrex (d188.dial-7.cmb.ma.ultra.net [209.6.70.188]) by antiochus-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n20340/mtc.v2) with SMTP id LAA22352 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 11:56:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00aa01c16876$8416c940$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <155.3badb82.291bfd5c@aol.com> Subject: Re: LF: Re: Ringing Voltage on Telephone , boo-boo Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 11:57:26 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Larry, I'm with John Davis on this one. The U.S. practice is 20 Hz for ringing -- nothing at 1 kHz. John Andrews, W1TAG > Larry, I have done. My statement was based on having checked it personally > on a number of Bell and non-Bell exchanges over the years. As I said, it may > be different in Canada, but here it's 20Hz. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5805 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2001 15:37:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2001 15:37:52 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29218 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2001 15:37:49 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2001 15:37:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161r2a-0004H7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 15:24:28 +0000 Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.163]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161r2Z-0004H2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 15:24:27 +0000 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.8.) id l.155.3badb82 (3965) for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 10:23:08 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <155.3badb82.291bfd5c@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 10:23:08 EST Subject: Re: LF: Re: Ringing Voltage on Telephone , boo-boo To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 11/8/01 8:34:11 AM Eastern Standard Time, kayser@sympatico.ca writes: << both these are wrong. Go and get a scope and have a look. >> Larry, I have done. My statement was based on having checked it personally on a number of Bell and non-Bell exchanges over the years. As I said, it may be different in Canada, but here it's 20Hz. 73, John From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29837 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2001 15:11:31 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2001 15:11:31 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 7386 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2001 15:11:27 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2001 15:11:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161qhk-0004DQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 15:02:56 +0000 Received: from galahad.joust.net ([63.108.136.2] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161qhi-0004DL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 15:02:55 +0000 Received: from benny-hill (m7-137-147.joust.net [63.108.137.147]) by galahad.joust.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id fA8F26f18020 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 10:02:06 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <200111081502.fA8F26f18020@galahad.joust.net> Date: Thu, 08 Nov 2001 10:01:25 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Steve Dove" Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic Anyone? X-Mailer: Opera 5.02 build 856a X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi David, Sorry to miss such a likely successful opportunity for a transatlantic hit, but I'm going to be in, um, England. Cheers, Steve, W3EEE > > > With 800 Watts and a 170 foot top fed vertical I hope to be on 136k QRSS > from 23.30 on the 10 November to about 03.30 the following morning. > > I am particually interested in any station on the other side of Atlantic > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29620 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2001 14:37:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2001 14:37:11 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 7253 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2001 14:37:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2001 14:37:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161qEw-00046D-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 14:33:10 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161qEv-000468-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 14:33:09 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id OAA13067; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 14:40:39 GMT Received: (qmail 28301 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2001 15:24:09 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 8 Nov 2001 15:24:09 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id OAA10872; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 14:59:20 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma010788; Thu, 8 Nov 01 14:58:19 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 14:35:17 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 14:31:27 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C61A@PDW-MAIL-R1> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Ringing Voltage on Telephone, Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 14:31:23 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In the UK the standard capacitor is 1.8uF and maximum ringing load is 1000 ohms (REN = 4) based on old legacy system. The actual ringing voltage is 'spiky' at a PRF of 25 Hz. I'll have a look at its actual waveform tonight and report back, but it certainly is not that spiky and made up of 1000 Hz components over here. 1.8uF has Xl = 3500 ohms at 25Hz so on a 1k load will be somewhat lossy but bearing in mind a cable of 0.5mm diameter trwin conductors has about 200 ohms / km DC resistance, there could be over 1k of resistance anyway on a long underground line, so the ringing margin needs to be quite high. The old bells had inductive coils so this probably resonated with the 1.8uF cancelling out a fair bit of the 'loss' due to reactance. I have a modern electronic phone that rings with only 10V on it. It wet weather once, water leaking into a phone connection in the garage shorted this capacitor (we have a three wire system remember) and the phone spontaneously rang from the DC present on the line, waking me up in the middle of the night :-( I notice a lot of (legal) phone accessories in this country now only use two wires, so it looks as if the idea of a single DC blocking capacitor in the junction box with a 3 wire local connection to each phone is going away. The 4th wire used within phone installations here is redundant, but was used once upon a time as an Earth lead for signalling on party line working. It was all a big mess in those days. No wonder manufacturers of phone accessories tear their hair out over international compatibility. Don't we get onto some strange subjects on this reflector ! Andy 'JNT > A quick reality check, think through the reactance of a DC blocking > capacitor at 20 Hz and 1000 Hz, when you rectify the AC through the > capacitor and power a small relay from the result you are not > working with > much of the 20 Hz component. > > Larry > VA3LK > > > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5662 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2001 14:27:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2001 14:27:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22291 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2001 14:27:18 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2001 14:27:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161q4j-000459-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 14:22:37 +0000 Received: from siaag1aa.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161q4i-000454-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 14:22:36 +0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1aa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id JAA17017 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 09:21:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 09:19:16 -0500 From: "Holger 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Re: [a bit off topic] Ringing Telephones, boo-boo To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200111080919_MC3-E632-D1E8@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LF Group, it is interesting, that if you search an Internet search machine for "telephone ringing voltage" you might end up at another ham radio operator. For those of you who would like to know more about the (analog) world of the telephone network, there is an article unter http://www.egyed.com/phonework.html, written by Julian Macassey, N6ARE. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 512 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2001 13:35:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2001 13:35:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 8795 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2001 13:35:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2001 13:35:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161pGF-0003ur-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 13:30:27 +0000 Received: from tomts19.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.73] helo=tomts19-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161pGD-0003uP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 13:30:26 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.209.110.5]) by tomts19-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20011108132909.XGM10804.tomts19-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 08:29:09 -0500 Message-ID: <004701c16859$556ab880$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C618@PDW-MAIL-R1> Subject: Re: LF: Re: Ringing Voltage on Telephone , boo-boo Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 08:28:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Gentlemen: > Same in the UK and > > I don't know how it is in Canada, but in the States, the 20Hz > > component is > > the only ringing voltage sent across the line to the > > telephone set, both these are wrong. Go and get a scope and have a look. The proper designation of ringing induction from CO to Callee (a telephone term differentiating Caller [the originator of a call] from the person receiving the call) is "20/1000" which is composed of a 20 cycle sine wave modulating a 1000 Hz tone. Remember as well the ringing induction can be from Tip to Ring (normal in North America), from Tip to Ground, from Ring to Ground, - I do remember that the standard in the UK is different than here. I did not speak to the pseudo ringing tone provided to the Caller. A quick reality check, think through the reactance of a DC blocking capacitor at 20 Hz and 1000 Hz, when you rectify the AC through the capacitor and power a small relay from the result you are not working with much of the 20 Hz component. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5275 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2001 09:59:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2001 09:59:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10391 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2001 09:59:23 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2001 09:59:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161lpO-0003LY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 09:50:30 +0000 Received: from kuku-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.63] helo=kuku.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161lpL-0003L6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 09:50:29 +0000 Received: from zero.excite.com ([199.172.152.241]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20011108094901.IEWH29973.kuku.excite.com@zero.excite.com> for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 01:49:01 -0800 Message-ID: <10091863.1005212941855.JavaMail.imail@zero.excite.com> Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 01:48:58 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Litz wire MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 62.253.64.6 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Peter, There is a Litz Wire Guide on the site of WireTronic Inc. at http://www.wiretron.com, which describes the notation used and lists standard types. 73, John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23860 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2001 09:14:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2001 09:14:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 25435 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2001 09:14:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2001 09:14:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161l77-0003B6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 09:04:45 +0000 Received: from chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net ([212.135.1.67]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161l73-0003B0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 09:04:44 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-18-190.easynet.co.uk [212.134.224.190]) by chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B561F1D5039 for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 09:03:57 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000201c16834$8ab83280$bee086d4@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C616@PDW-MAIL-R1> Subject: LF: Re: G8RW/ Litz wire Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 22:05:23 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > >From G3YMC > > but the situation as I understand it. It is > > rather interesting to note that many of the early operators > > on 136 were ex top band > > operators. It seems most of these have now returned there. >From G4JNT > I thought a lot of the early operators on 73kHz (long before this new > fangled high frequency 137kHz band arrived :-) came from the microwave bands I came to LF from the upper HF bands (microwaves as far as 73kHz is concerned). My first 2X 73kHz DX contact was with G4JNT on 23/8/97 using CW, over a distance of 57km. No one down here came specifically from top band and I had not operated on that band since 1959. On a different subject does anyone know of the correct designations for Litz wire. The wire that came from the Decca coils is 3mm diameter (4mm with insulation) and has around 850 separate .2mm conductors. (the wire count is an estimation). Some other wire I have from the Crawley club is 1.5mm diameter (2.7 mm with insulation) and has approximately 200 .2mm wires. I am sure I have seen designations for Litz but I can't remember where. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18479 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2001 09:12:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2001 09:12:04 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 22886 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2001 09:11:50 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2001 09:11:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161kZr-00035a-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 08:30:23 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161kZq-00035V-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 08:30:22 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id IAA31479; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 08:37:50 GMT Received: (qmail 14243 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2001 09:14:34 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 8 Nov 2001 09:14:34 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id IAA22461; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 08:49:47 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma022458; Thu, 8 Nov 01 08:49:20 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 08:26:16 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 08:22:27 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C618@PDW-MAIL-R1> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Re: Ringing Voltage on Telephone , boo-boo Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 08:22:17 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Same in the UK. Ring voltage is a low frequency bipolar spike waveform of a 100V or so amplitude, Originally designed to hit the bells firmly, the waveform seems to have been kept for legacy reasons. Modern phones rectify the AC ringing voltage, after it has been separated by a capacitor from the DC line voltage of 50V, and use this to supply the audio ringer. Ring tones are generated locally in response to the network signalling instructions and returned to the caller. Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: WarmSpgs@aol.com [mailto:WarmSpgs@aol.com] > Sent: 2001-11-08 06:51 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: Re: Ringing Voltage on Telephone, boo-boo > > > I don't know how it is in Canada, but in the States, the 20Hz > component is > the only ringing voltage sent across the line to the > telephone set, which can > readily be confirmed by sticking a blocking capacitor and a bridging > transformer acorss the line and looking at the result directly on an > oscilloscope. The modulated audio frequency tones are sent from the > switching office back to the caller, not to the recipient. > > Locally, the ringing voltage is 90V RMS, riding on the normal > on-hook DC of > about 50 volts. > > 73, > John > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18018 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2001 07:00:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2001 07:00:03 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 12119 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2001 06:59:55 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2001 06:59:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161j2D-0002sE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 06:51:33 +0000 Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.97]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161j2C-0002s9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 06:51:32 +0000 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.8.) id l.ce.1d0aca71 (3976) for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 01:50:49 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 01:50:49 EST Subject: Re: LF: Re: Ringing Voltage on Telephone, boo-boo To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I don't know how it is in Canada, but in the States, the 20Hz component is the only ringing voltage sent across the line to the telephone set, which can readily be confirmed by sticking a blocking capacitor and a bridging transformer acorss the line and looking at the result directly on an oscilloscope. The modulated audio frequency tones are sent from the switching office back to the caller, not to the recipient. Locally, the ringing voltage is 90V RMS, riding on the normal on-hook DC of about 50 volts. 73, John From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22462 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2001 00:52:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2001 00:52:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 13455 invoked from network); 8 Nov 2001 00:52:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Nov 2001 00:52:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161dN1-00023R-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 00:48:39 +0000 Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.161]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161dN0-00023F-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Nov 2001 00:48:38 +0000 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.8.) id l.60.166a0a75 (4452) for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2001 19:47:44 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <60.166a0a75.291b302f@aol.com> Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 19:47:43 EST Subject: LF: Transatlantic Anyone? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 10505 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello.

My friend is due to move from his 15th floor flat next week and has asked if I would like to oeprate from the West London tower block for one last time this weekend.

With 800 Watts and a 170 foot top fed vertical I hope to be on 136k QRSS from 23.30 on the 10 November to about 03.30 the following morning.

I am particually interested in any station on the other side of  Atlantic (or Eastern Europe etc.) who would like to either listen for the signals or try a crossband QSO.

I'll post the frequency (s) and a contact phone number if there is any interest.

BTW - There's a picture of the site at www.g0mrf.freeserve.co.uk/atlantic

73

David  G0MRF



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15701 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2001 20:51:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Nov 2001 20:51:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 17106 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2001 20:51:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Nov 2001 20:51:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161ZXS-0001Q6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2001 20:43:10 +0000 Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.131]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161ZXQ-0001Q1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2001 20:43:09 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.178.97]) by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20011107204154.NRDO4439.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Thu, 8 Nov 2001 09:41:54 +1300 Message-ID: <005b01c167cc$fedbede0$b0b21bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001d01c1669d$88e210e0$07137bd5@dave> <002001c166b1$89a4ad80$d1a4153e@w8k3f0> <002a01c16779$07ec1260$4154073e@dave> Subject: LF: Re: Re: G8RW - information Date: Thu, 8 Nov 2001 09:43:49 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, Dave G3YMC wrote: > Please note these are not my own views, but the situation as I understand it. It is > rather interesting to note that many of the early operators on 136 were ex top band > operators. It seems most of these have now returned there. Well, that is a choice that individuals can make. However, it would seem to be rather polarised that it is "all or nothing" in any pursuit. Most hams I know have their own blend of bands, modes and operating preferences. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14842 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2001 15:50:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Nov 2001 15:50:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 16336 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2001 15:50:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Nov 2001 15:50:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161Usj-0000cd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2001 15:44:49 +0000 Received: from tomts5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.25] helo=tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161Use-0000cW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2001 15:44:48 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.209.138.29]) by tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20011107154326.XFNE7882.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2001 10:43:26 -0500 Message-ID: <001e01c167a2$ecd59df0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000001c166ee$395054a0$144d01d5@default> Subject: LF: Re: Ringing Voltage on Telephone, boo-boo Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 10:43:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Oh My, another mistake in my dotage. Yes, several are correct the ringing induction has a component of 20 Hz, but it is a 20 Hz cycle of 1000 Hz that you get. There are a lot of reasons for this, but the critical; notion is that the ringing voltage peak is from the 120V Central Office battery, 120V and is AC at the 1.414 peak. If you want put a scope on the ringing induction and take a look. when you put a .1 mfd cap in series with the line and rectify the ringing induction, you are working on the 1000 Hz component, not the 20 Hz component hi. The 1000 Hz component is what you hear when your listening on the line, the 20 Hz component makes the old mecanical bells jump hi. The 20 Hz component can also come in a number of variants. Sorry I messed this up, very few understand how the ringing induction system works, and i must put myself in the class of no longer having it down pat.... Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10082 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2001 12:32:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Nov 2001 12:32:26 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 29661 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2001 12:32:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Nov 2001 12:32:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161RmD-00006c-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2001 12:25:53 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161RmC-00006X-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2001 12:25:52 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id MAA24929; Wed, 7 Nov 2001 12:33:19 GMT Received: (qmail 26324 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2001 13:16:53 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 7 Nov 2001 13:16:53 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id MAA22880; Wed, 7 Nov 2001 12:52:10 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma022872; Wed, 7 Nov 01 12:51:44 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2001 12:28:32 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 7 Nov 2001 12:24:44 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C616@PDW-MAIL-R1> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re: G8RW - information Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 12:24:37 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >>From G3YMC > but the situation as I understand it. It is > rather interesting to note that many of the early operators > on 136 were ex top band > operators. It seems most of these have now returned there. I thought a lot of the early operators on 73kHz (long before this new fangled high frequency 137kHz band arrived :-) came from the microwave bands where a knowledge of how to build your own equipment, to really and properly understand what you were actually doing, and carry out meaningful measurements is essential. The topbanders just followed along afterwards. I've returned to microwaves for now, but if anyone wants to conduct some serious experimentation into modern low bandwidth signalling techniques, get in touch privately and we'll take it from there. Andy G4JNT -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7741 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2001 11:27:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Nov 2001 11:27:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 24884 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2001 11:27:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Nov 2001 11:27:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161QgZ-0008Rg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2001 11:15:59 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161QgY-0008Rb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2001 11:15:58 +0000 Received: from [213.123.12.169] (helo=default) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 161Qft-0005Ad-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2001 11:15:17 +0000 Message-ID: <002001c1677d$7842c820$a90c7bd5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Propagation correction Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 10:49:02 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, thanks to John for pointing it out, but I got my timing a bit off in the last report. The leading edge from the CME associated with Sunday's X-Class flare duly arrived early on the 6th but was preceded at 1800z on Monday 5th by a storm (Kp=5) from another event that didnt make the headlines. This was a little exceptional as it only took 48 hours to get here where as the normal travel time for a CME is 56 to 72 hours. The result was that the Kp index hit 8 on Tuesday and was over 5 for most of the day. So expect this to affect LF propagation as early as Saturday, and the effects may be fairly long lived. It looks like conditions will stay interesting for a little while. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29721 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2001 10:51:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Nov 2001 10:51:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 17272 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2001 10:51:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Nov 2001 10:51:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161Q9W-0008LS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2001 10:41:50 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161Q9V-0008LN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2001 10:41:49 +0000 Received: from [62.7.84.65] (helo=dave) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 161Q8p-0000li-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2001 10:41:07 +0000 Message-ID: <002a01c16779$07ec1260$4154073e@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" References: <001d01c1669d$88e210e0$07137bd5@dave> <002001c166b1$89a4ad80$d1a4153e@w8k3f0> Subject: LF: Re: G8RW - information Date: Wed, 7 Nov 2001 08:52:39 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3XZX wrote: >I had a QSO this evening with Bob G8RW on 1.8 MHz cw, and he gave the >reason for giving up 136 kHz as severe QRM from his neighbour's cable >TV. Bob's local QRM is obviously one of the reasons in his decision, but those of you who have worked him over the past few weeks will know that he had largely solved that with the help of a noise canceller. I understand (though I have not spoken to him direct) that the final straw was the appearance of various test transmissions subsequent to MB7LF's establishment. I suspect Bob is far too polite a chap to have mentioned this reason on the air. I also suspect that Bob would not be interested in making any QSOs with the aid of a relay. Please note these are not my own views, but the situation as I understand it. It is rather interesting to note that many of the early operators on 136 were ex top band operators. It seems most of these have now returned there. 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23624 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2001 09:06:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Nov 2001 09:06:28 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26795 invoked from network); 7 Nov 2001 09:06:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Nov 2001 09:06:26 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161OVl-00083j-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2001 08:56:41 +0000 Received: from mta02.btfusion.com ([62.172.195.247] helo=btclick.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161OVj-00083e-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Nov 2001 08:56:39 +0000 Received: from virgin.net ([213.121.108.88]) by btclick.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.05) with ESMTP id GMFA4E03.H1L for ; Wed, 7 Nov 2001 08:55:26 +0000 Message-ID: <3BE8F71F.FAA73DB7@virgin.net> Date: Wed, 07 Nov 2001 08:56:00 +0000 From: "Stewart Bryant" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: G8RW - information References: <001d01c1669d$88e210e0$07137bd5@dave> <002001c166b1$89a4ad80$d1a4153e@w8k3f0> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: "J. Alan Lowe" wrote: > In message <002001c166b1$89a4ad80$d1a4153e@w8k3f0>, Dick Rollema > writes > >Dear OM, > > > >Dave, G3YMC, wrote: > > > >> Just to say that I have heard from Steve GW4ALG that Bob G8RW has now > >given up > >> operation on 136 following the appearance of the MB7LF 'repeater' and > >associated > >> events. This is yet one more loss to the band. > > I had a QSO this evening with Bob G8RW on 1.8 MHz cw, and he gave the > reason for giving up 136 kHz as severe QRM from his neighbour's cable > TV. > > 73, Alan, G3XZX I understand that he is in Bromely, which probably in MB7LF range. If you think that he would be interested in trying it and someone can provide me with some contact details I will move it on to a suitable band and mode for some tests. 73 Stewart G3YSX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18252 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 23:41:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 23:41:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 21449 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 23:41:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 23:41:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161Fm0-0006nj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 23:36:52 +0000 Received: from mx0.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.39]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161Fm0-0006ne-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 23:36:52 +0000 Received: from tnt-1-461.easynet.co.uk ([195.40.127.205] helo=ericadodd) by mx0.mail.uk.easynet.net with smtp (Exim 3.33 #3) id 161Fkw-0002cY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 23:35:46 +0000 Message-ID: <002901c1671c$113f7080$cd7f28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001d01c1669d$88e210e0$07137bd5@dave> <002001c166b1$89a4ad80$d1a4153e@w8k3f0> Subject: Re: LF: Re: G8RW - information Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 22:54:21 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >> Just to say that I have heard from Steve GW4ALG that Bob G8RW has now > >given up operation on 136 following the appearance of the MB7LF 'repeater' and associated events. This is yet one more loss to the band. > > I had a QSO this evening with Bob G8RW on 1.8 MHz cw, and he gave the > reason for giving up 136 kHz as severe QRM from his neighbour's cable TV. > 73, Alan, G3XZX Looks like a good candidate for a VHF/UHF link to a remote LF receiver at a quiet site. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6140 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 21:54:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 21:54:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 19269 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 21:54:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 21:54:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161E6e-0006XV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 21:50:04 +0000 Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.43]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161E6d-0006XQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 21:50:03 +0000 Received: from compaq ([62.253.50.125]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20011106214921.OUGX5969.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@compaq> for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2001 21:49:21 +0000 Message-ID: <006901c1670c$e94a1760$7d32fd3e@compaq> From: "Tracey Gardner" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Multi-layer loading coils using Osmadrain Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 21:49:08 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Christer Look at the web page http://www.wavin.co.uk Click on "Search" and enter the product code 4D925. Then click on the upper product and it will bring up, 110MM UNI INSP CHAMBER SHAFT. Than click on "Perspective Drawing" and you should see a drawing of the pipe that Peter is using. Tracey From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21439 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 21:36:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 21:36:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 2131 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 21:36:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 21:36:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161DoX-0006Tj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 21:31:21 +0000 Received: from tomts7.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.40] helo=tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161DoW-0006Tc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 21:31:21 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.209.110.173]) by tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20011106213007.ZKTA29382.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2001 16:30:07 -0500 Message-ID: <006001c1670a$303afa70$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <00a601c16637$8a839c40$092cfd3e@compaq> <000201c1669d$87d70980$cc29f7c2@zetnet.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: Electronic water softeners Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 16:21:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I found one of these things locally here once, got a wonderful 5 inch diameter 80 m loading coil of aluminum tubing with a wire down the center out of it. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18928 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 21:25:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 21:25:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 6696 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 21:25:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 21:25:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161Df2-0006Ra-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 21:21:32 +0000 Received: from tomts7.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.40] helo=tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161Dew-0006RM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 21:21:31 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.209.110.173]) by tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20011106212010.ZFRF29382.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2001 16:20:10 -0500 Message-ID: <002501c16708$cc9216d0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <20011105.160737.-484705.3.riese-k3djc@juno.com> Subject: LF: Re: Ringing Voltage on Telephone Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 16:19:54 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Gentlemen: Bob Reise says..... > Make sure that you dont have anyone calling you when the phone line is > connected to > your computer as ring voltages can be as high at 140 volts AC The AC is not 60 Cycle, it is 1000 Hz or a variant near by. There are also coded ringing systems that use different AC some as low as 850 Hz and some as high as 1150 Hz or maybe more. The peak AC voltage is 1.414 of the 120V Battery. ALSO if you have ISDN (2B1Q coding)you will have up to 240 Volts DC, + 120 and -120 from tip to ring. These voltages will also occur on some of the ADSL and HDSL systems, where the terminal is line powered. This means the terminal in the home/business is powered from the Central Office. These voltages are not insignificant and can give you a real poke. The 8 kHz to a power of n is interesting. Note that many of the telco's now TRANSCODE the regular 64 KBPS, which is really 56 KBPS into two 32 KBPS in a 64 KBPS as well as 16 KBPS for 4 in a 64 KBPS and some private line stuff is actually 8 KBPS for 8 channels in a real 64 KBPS. Now you know how those really cheap LD carriers make their economics work hi. You can hear in North America the T1 internal line rates as far as a mile from a cable carrying the old DC pair systems. I know the 30 channel European system is different, completely different, and much of the pairs in the UK are a 4 wire quad that is exceedingly difficult to get much bit rate out of it because of the way they are twisted together. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15549 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 21:23:48 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 21:23:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 20331 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 21:23:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 21:23:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161DcF-0006Ql-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 21:18:39 +0000 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161DcD-0006Qg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 21:18:37 +0000 Received: from jalowe.demon.co.uk ([158.152.173.18]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 161DbX-000PNv-0K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 6 Nov 2001 21:17:56 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 21:16:18 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "J. Alan Lowe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: G8RW - information References: <001d01c1669d$88e210e0$07137bd5@dave> <002001c166b1$89a4ad80$d1a4153e@w8k3f0> In-reply-to: <002001c166b1$89a4ad80$d1a4153e@w8k3f0> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.01 U Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In message <002001c166b1$89a4ad80$d1a4153e@w8k3f0>, Dick Rollema writes >Dear OM, > >Dave, G3YMC, wrote: > >> Just to say that I have heard from Steve GW4ALG that Bob G8RW has now >given up >> operation on 136 following the appearance of the MB7LF 'repeater' and >associated >> events. This is yet one more loss to the band. I had a QSO this evening with Bob G8RW on 1.8 MHz cw, and he gave the reason for giving up 136 kHz as severe QRM from his neighbour's cable TV. 73, Alan, G3XZX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11339 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 20:47:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 20:47:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 15868 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 20:47:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 20:47:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161D2T-0006LV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 20:41:41 +0000 Received: from fep02.swip.net ([130.244.199.130] helo=fep02-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161D2S-0006LQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 20:41:41 +0000 Received: from W98 ([212.151.88.66]) by fep02-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20011106204055.COMK6019.fep02-svc.swip.net@W98> for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2001 21:40:55 +0100 Message-ID: <001301c16703$5fccbaa0$425897d4@W98.swipnet.se> From: "C Andersson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: SV: LF: Multi-layer loading coils Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 21:41:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >>As a former, I found a "sectional manhole" made by Osma >> was very suitable. This is a brown PVC cylinder about 500mm >> diameter and 350mm long, with external ribs. It is meant to form the >> walls of manholes for drains, and several sections can be slotted >> together for a bigger former if needed. I cannot visualize this "manhole" thing. Would it be possible to take a photo? /Christer sm6pxj From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7009 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 18:56:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 18:56:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 28167 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 18:56:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 18:56:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161BGx-00063y-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 18:48:31 +0000 Received: from antiochus-fe0.ultra.net ([146.115.8.188]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161BGw-00063t-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 18:48:30 +0000 Received: from comrex (d209.dial-5.cmb.ma.ultra.net [209.6.68.209]) by antiochus-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n20340/mtc.v2) with SMTP id NAA20943 for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2001 13:47:44 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <009b01c166f3$bd32e580$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000001c166ee$395054a0$144d01d5@default> Subject: LF: Re: Propagation Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 13:48:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alan, > This CME will affect > the LF conditions on or around Thursday , but a big CME from Sunday's flare > should arrive by about Wednesday 7th and will start to have an effect on the > LF bands by about Saturday or Sunday. > Just as I think I start to understand all of this, I get more confused! SpaceWeather.com is reporting that the CME from Sunday's flare arrived on Nov. 6th (today) at 0150Z, that it was very fast moving, and was the source of the widely observed aurora. Do you agree with that? John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23302 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 18:16:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 18:16:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 22019 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 18:16:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 18:16:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161AgA-0005zg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 18:10:30 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 161Ag9-0005zb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 18:10:30 +0000 Received: from [213.1.77.20] (helo=default) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 161AfU-0006ia-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 18:09:48 +0000 Message-ID: <000001c166ee$395054a0$144d01d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Propagation Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 16:33:54 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, there were lots of deep fades in the daytime DCF plot from Brian CT1DRP for yesterday (5th Nov). The best day for daylight DX looks like it might have been Sunday 4th with DCF39 levels at CT1DRP up some 15 to 20 dB over normal. The nightime levels on this path have not really recovered yet but there are short periods of quite reasonable strength. One should be cautious at trying to relate these conditions to the Transatlantic path, because I suspect that the DCF39<>CT1DRP path at 1950kms is one hop (i.e.one traverse of the still absorbing D-layer) whilst the Eu to VE path is undoubtedly 2 hops so the signal must make two traverses through a very absorbing D-layer. So peak levels will not be so good until later in the event. There was a massive and still rising (0000z Monday) proton flux from Sunday's Flare, and the CME from the previous event arrived at about 1800z last night (Monday) producing very widely seen aurora. This CME will affect the LF conditions on or around Thursday , but a big CME from Sunday's flare should arrive by about Wednesday 7th and will start to have an effect on the LF bands by about Saturday or Sunday. It looks as though Sunday the 11th could well be another good day for daytime DX. I suspect that the transatlantic path will be generally indifferent during this period......BUT the multipath that is produced when the absorption falls off can lead to very high peaks but for rather shorter periods maybe 30 to 45 minutes. I suggest during this period you could throw a little S/N away in order to get call letters completed in 20 to 30 minutes. If its bad you wont be heard (seen!) anyway but if it is good you will get all the call letters over.....just a thought. ( I shall have to dunk the rabbits paw in paracetamol as its looking a bit shell-shocked after that lot) Happy hunting Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11436 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 15:47:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 15:47:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 14138 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 15:47:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 15:47:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1618KJ-0005Wr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 15:39:47 +0000 Received: from mail4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.211]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1618KI-0005Wm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 15:39:46 +0000 Received: from modem-6.adunakhor.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.96.134] helo=g3aqc) by mail4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 1618Jb-0005dH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 15:39:04 +0000 Message-ID: <001301c166d9$1cbbf160$8660883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 73kHz Beacon Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 15:38:06 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Looks like conditions very poor now so I will not be testing tonight. Get some sleep Hi. I will advise when I start again. Thanks for listening. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15960 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 15:33:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 15:33:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 2705 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 15:33:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 15:33:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16183t-0005Tw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 15:22:49 +0000 Received: from antiochus-fe0.ultra.net ([146.115.8.188]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 16183r-0005Tp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 15:22:47 +0000 Received: from comrex (d209.dial-5.cmb.ma.ultra.net [209.6.68.209]) by antiochus-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n20340/mtc.v2) with SMTP id KAA09534 for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2001 10:21:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003301c166d6$fdf65ba0$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000201c16602$5244e8a0$bc23893e@g3aqc> Subject: LF: Re: 73kHz Beacon Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 10:22:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Laurie, Nothing heard last night. Condx fell completely apart during the evening, so I'm not surprised! John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7022 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 15:21:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 15:21:33 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21807 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 15:21:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 15:21:29 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1617rB-0005RV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 15:09:41 +0000 Received: from e22.nc.us.ibm.com ([32.97.136.228]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1617r9-0005RQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 15:09:40 +0000 Received: from southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.208]) by e22.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA10260 for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2001 09:06:18 -0600 Received: from usa.net (ss6.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.71]) by southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.00) with ESMTP id fA6F7Z836656 for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2001 10:07:36 -0500 Message-ID: <3BE7FC91.6F2DFD56@usa.net> Date: Tue, 06 Nov 2001 16:06:57 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: spectrum 136kHz I2PHD/dj8wx References: <200111010724_MC3-414D-935B@compuserve.com> <001101c162d8$6ef36f30$0400000a@parissn2> <3BE31FFF.C0788E6E@usa.net> <160JaP-1LPangC@fwd02.sul.t-online.com> <3BE55DBA.BD1FB024@usa.net> <003101c1655e$a949c5c0$1bb51bca@xtr743187> <3BE66466.F1BDFE8D@usa.net> <002901c16627$fb93a700$97b21bca@xtr743187> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Vernall wrote: > [...] > Digital networking has been around for some 20 years, with A/D and D/A > conversion at the exchange. Interconnections between exchanges and the > "network" are entirely with digital format, with data rates of 2 to 156 > Mbit/s. Subscribers still think they have an analogue connection, but it is > only as far as the exchange. The likes of ADSL or ISDN bring digital format > into the subcriber loop, but that is additional to what I was mentioning in > my earlier comments. > [...] Bob Vernall, Bob Riese and the group, thanks for the further explanations, which make a lot of sense. I will pry my nose in my telephone line, to discover what 'horribilis' ghosts are lurking there, hidden behind that reassuring and innocent tut-tut. I will lightly couple the line with my new receiver, a JRC NRD-525, which, BTW, seems to be very sensitive on LF, and should something unexpected show up, it will be promptly captured and posted here. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4624 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 11:01:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 11:01:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 28236 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 11:01:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 11:01:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1613ty-0004cy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 10:56:18 +0000 Received: from cmailenv2.svr.pol.co.uk ([213.218.77.54]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1613tw-0004ct-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 10:56:16 +0000 Received: from [62.21.164.209] (helo=w8k3f0) by cmailENV2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 1613tE-0002OO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 10:55:33 +0000 Message-ID: <002001c166b1$89a4ad80$d1a4153e@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001d01c1669d$88e210e0$07137bd5@dave> Subject: LF: Re: G8RW - information Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 11:54:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear OM, Dave, G3YMC, wrote: > Just to say that I have heard from Steve GW4ALG that Bob G8RW has now given up > operation on 136 following the appearance of the MB7LF 'repeater' and associated > events. This is yet one more loss to the band. Indeed a pity. I had some technical correspondence with Bob when he was starting on LF. But I really don't understand the fuss about MB7LF. I see it as just another tool that is available to the LF amateur. It does not occupy any bandwidth on LF. And if you don't like it, don't use it. As a positive effect I see that 2m listeners who happen to listen to MB7LF may get interested in LF and join our ranks. 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16591 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 08:55:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 08:55:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 16497 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 08:54:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 08:54:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1611ti-0004Ap-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 08:47:54 +0000 Received: from cmailenv4.svr.pol.co.uk ([213.218.77.56]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1611th-0004Ak-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 08:47:53 +0000 Received: from [62.21.160.67] (helo=w8k3f0) by cmailENV4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 1611sz-0001Yr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 08:47:09 +0000 Message-ID: <000d01c1669f$99fccf80$43a0153e@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3BE69FED.6290.1155FA6@localhost> Subject: Re: LF: Aerial system resistance at PA0SE Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 09:46:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear OM, Mike, G3XDV, wrote: > PA0SE wrote: > > This is connected to the gas pipe that carries the aerial > > current to earth. > Isn't that dangerous? This question has been posed before on the reflector and the answer is the same: the gas pipe is also used as safety earth for our electricity supply. In case of a short circuit to earth tens of amps wil flow through that pipe. As that is apparantly considered acceptable I don't worry about my 1.8A of RF current. 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12127 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 08:37:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 08:37:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 4236 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 08:37:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 08:37:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1611dT-00048E-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 08:31:07 +0000 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1611dS-000489-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 08:31:06 +0000 Received: from abc (man-s077.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.41.204]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id fA68ULX30099 for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2001 08:30:21 GMT Message-ID: <000201c1669d$87d70980$cc29f7c2@zetnet.co.uk> From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <00a601c16637$8a839c40$092cfd3e@compaq> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Electronic water softeners Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 21:32:07 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tracey Gardner" To: Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 8:20 PM Subject: LF: Re: Electronic water softeners > Your water supplier should be able to tell you the hardness > of the water. They are sending me the figures. I had in mind doing my own checks on the effectiveness of the softener. John From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 324 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 08:37:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 08:37:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 4247 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 08:37:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 08:37:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1611d3-000487-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 08:30:41 +0000 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1611d2-000482-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 08:30:40 +0000 Received: from [213.123.19.7] (helo=dave) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 1611cL-0001xI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 08:29:57 +0000 Message-ID: <001d01c1669d$88e210e0$07137bd5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: G8RW - information Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 08:31:35 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Just to say that I have heard from Steve GW4ALG that Bob G8RW has now given up operation on 136 following the appearance of the MB7LF 'repeater' and associated events. This is yet one more loss to the band. I notice that Walter G3JKV has been beaconing in QRSS for long periods the last couple of days on 137.0, apparantly not interested in having QSOs. Didn't I recall we had a band plan? 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2967 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 06:46:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 06:46:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 356 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 06:46:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 06:46:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160zqN-0003qF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 06:36:19 +0000 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.129]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160zqL-0003q9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 06:36:17 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([210.54.76.179]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20011106063453.NRQF3964.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2001 19:34:53 +1300 Message-ID: <005201c1668d$7df95a40$b34c36d2@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <20011105.160737.-484705.3.riese-k3djc@juno.com> Subject: Re: LF: Re: spectrum 136kHz Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 19:35:45 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, Thanks to Bob Reise for pointing out that ringing voltage is a lot higher than S9. A high pass filter would be a useful precaution for connecting to a telephone line. For checking LF harmonic content it should be connected to an LF receiver, not directly to a sound card. Further, the higher frequency content may propagate in unbalanced mode, rather than in "pushpull", in which case radio sampling could be via a low value capacitor, to either leg of the telephone line. But the practical result is still there, that amateurs should avoid multiples of 8 kHz for weak signal LF DX work. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5367 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 04:49:09 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 04:49:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29608 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 04:49:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 04:49:02 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160xyq-0003XY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 04:36:56 +0000 Received: from dc-mx05.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.15] helo=dc-mx05.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160xyo-0003XT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 04:36:54 +0000 Received: from [216.143.60.140] (HELO Rayburn.highnoonfilm.com) by dc-mx05.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with ESMTP id 47373806 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 23:41:29 -0500 Message-ID: <5.1.0.14.0.20011105223517.009f6e00@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: les/highnoonfilm.com@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.1 Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 22:36:07 -0600 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Les Rayburn" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Receiver/IC 746 In-reply-to: <3.0.3.32.20010830202245.01c5b25c@pop.netzero.net> References: <3B8E1787.4FB4EC0D@usa.net> <003e01c130d4$30973360$7798fea9@host.telepac.pt> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jon, Any update on how we can "heal" our deaf Icom 746's? I'm willing to try out any mod John might suggest. Les Les Rayburn, N1LF 4919 Cox Cove Helena, AL 35080 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 716 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 00:48:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 00:48:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 25952 invoked from network); 6 Nov 2001 00:48:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Nov 2001 00:48:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160uHj-0002vf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 00:40:11 +0000 Received: from sun4.scgroup.com ([192.55.122.7]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160uHh-0002va-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Nov 2001 00:40:10 +0000 Received: from parissn2 (AMontsouris-101-1-3-195.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.252.108.195]) by sun4.scgroup.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA01193 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2001 16:39:15 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001d01c1665b$7e0ec9c0$0400000a@parissn2> From: "Stewart Nelson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200111052219.fA5MJap17276@k2.pncl.co.uk> Subject: LF: Don't open virus: [Snowhite ...] Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 01:39:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, It appears that the W95.Hybris.gen virus was posted here. If you accidentally opened it, see http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w95.hybris.gen.html The machine it was sent from is in the UK and connected via Pinnacle Internet. Other clues in the header are that the computer is called "233", presumably its speed, and the IP address of 212.35.234.187 . If that's you, check the above link to clean your machine. Sorry for the off topic post. 73, Stewart From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5959 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 23:05:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 23:05:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 2792 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 23:04:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 23:04:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160sev-0002aF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 22:56:01 +0000 Received: from latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.40]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160seu-0002aA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 22:56:00 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-6-164.easynet.co.uk [195.40.201.164]) by latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id DE2EA5A2C1 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2001 22:55:05 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <003101c1664d$23eaf440$e7c928c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: Re: LF: Multi-layer loading coils Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 22:55:57 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear James, LF group, > > In the end, I just used the wire from the Decca coil and scrapped > the rest. As a former, I found a "sectional manhole" made by Osma > was very suitable. This is a brown PVC cylinder about 500mm > diameter and 350mm long, with external ribs. It is meant to form the > walls of manholes for drains, and several sections can be slotted > together for a bigger former if needed. I found one of these Osma 'sectional manhole' units at the local builders yard - they seem ideal LF coil formers and I wondered how I had missed them before. I had hunted around all sorts of DIY and builders yards in the past. > > About 6 turns of the Decca litz wire fit between each pair of ribs, > forming a winding 3 layers deep by 2 long. about 80 or so turns > altogether gave me the required inductance, which has a Q of > about 700. What was the inductance of your 80 turn coil? >. I am using a > second sectional manhole wound with more turns of smaller, > ordinary stranded wire for 73k, which stacks on top of the 136k > loading coil. can you give details of the second coil? Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10062 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 22:31:46 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 22:31:46 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21519 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 22:31:39 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 22:31:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160s6H-0002Uq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 22:20:13 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160s6G-0002Ul-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 22:20:12 +0000 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (187.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.187]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id fA5MJQp17165 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2001 22:19:26 GMT Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011105221252.00a072b0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 22:19:21 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: Re: LF: Electronic water softeners In-reply-to: <000b01c16621$395043c0$1c2df7c2@zetnet.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 17:41 05/11/01 Monday, you wrote: >My ion-exchange resin water softener needs replacing. I am thinking of >trying one of the electronic systems, but wonder if there are any LF QRM >concerns (and how do I measure the hardness of the water)? > >73 de >John Rabson G3PAI Don't know about LF but they throw harmonics up into all the HF bands. I've had constant interference on 20, 15 and 10 from one thats about 500 metres away for the last five years. It consists of a length of wire wrapped around a copper water inlet pipe fed with an IC chopper output. How the AC gets through a copper pipe into the water beats me but the mfr says it does and it is then supposed to do miraculous things to the molecular structure of the water. The dear old lady who owns it believes it works and I haven't the heart to tell her she's wasted her money. Our water here is neutral anyway so we don't need softeners. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13940 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 21:53:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 21:53:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 25718 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 21:53:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 21:53:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160rZH-0002Mk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 21:46:07 +0000 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160rZG-0002Mf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 21:46:06 +0000 Received: from [213.122.209.92] (helo=computer) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 160rYY-0003hJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 21:45:23 +0000 Message-ID: <003301c16645$2a4499c0$1a5201d5@computer> From: "Martin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000b01c16621$395043c0$1c2df7c2@zetnet.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Electronic water softeners Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 21:58:59 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have seen these advertised but have little belief in there ability to work. I should be interested to know if they do Martin M0MGM ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Rabson" To: Sent: Monday, November 05, 2001 5:41 PM Subject: LF: Electronic water softeners > My ion-exchange resin water softener needs replacing. I am thinking of > trying one of the electronic systems, but wonder if there are any LF QRM > concerns (and how do I measure the hardness of the water)? > > 73 de > John Rabson G3PAI > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12260 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 21:21:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 21:21:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4018 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 21:21:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 21:21:56 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160r13-0002Ga-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 21:10:45 +0000 Received: from m11.boston.juno.com ([64.136.24.74]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160r11-0002GV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 21:10:44 +0000 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"yokUgcxCbtTP7XLrpefewIS9VH/YcmYud6+cPPNhqverj8X2kqWUcw=="> Received: (from riese-k3djc@juno.com) by m11.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id GKHUKTZF; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 16:09:35 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 16:07:37 -0500 Subject: Re: LF: Re: spectrum 136kHz I2PHD/dj8wx Message-ID: <20011105.160737.-484705.3.riese-k3djc@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-5,7-9,11,13-16,18-20,22-23 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "BOB RIESE" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: see if there is any residual of 8 kHz harmonics. My lines are analogic, but in the central exchange they are, by sure, digitized at 8kHz rate... some digital buzz may leak out. The problem may be from Digital multi line systems. The trend is to unload phone lines and replace analog cxr systems with a system that operates at 56 K. This allows for 2 good voice grade lines on one cable pair. This is a better deal for the TELCOs than running additional cables .They recommend locally to keep these systems out of the same sheath as other digital systems. They can cause mutual interference. However there should be little leaking outside of the main multi cable. Make sure that you dont have anyone calling you when the phone line is connected to your computer as ring voltages can be as high at 140 volts AC I am on such a system and have no problems other than a limit of 26 K.. I net access Bob K3DJC From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19071 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 21:10:40 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 21:10:40 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8982 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 21:10:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 21:10:31 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160quf-0002Ej-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 21:04:09 +0000 Received: from pcow024o.blueyonder.co.uk ([195.188.53.126] helo=blueyonder.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160que-0002Ee-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 21:04:09 +0000 Received: from pcow024m.blueyonder.co.uk ([127.0.0.1]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Mon, 5 Nov 2001 21:03:26 +0000 Received: from vigor.twickenham.freeserve.co.uk (unverified) by pcow024m.blueyonder.co.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.2.5) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2001 21:03:23 +0000 Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20011105205402.00ab6e80@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: twickenham.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 21:03:17 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rob Gill" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Electronic water softeners In-reply-to: <00a601c16637$8a839c40$092cfd3e@compaq> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John, Tracy et al, The advantage of being able to measure your own water hardness is that you can then determine if the electronic softener actually does anything more than flash some LED's on its front panel! I bought one a few years ago and, as far as I could tell without damaging it, it appeared to contain nothing more than a bit of LED flashing electronics. I carefully reassembled it and took it back for a refund. I do have fairly hard water and would like to believe that one of these electronic gizmos would do the trick, but I remain to be convinced. Good luck and let us know how you get on. Rob ........... At 20:20 05/11/01 +0000, you wrote: >Your water supplier should be able to tell you the hardness >of the water. > >Tracey > > > > >My ion-exchange resin water softener needs replacing. I am thinking of > >trying one of the electronic systems, but wonder if there are any LF >QRM > >concerns (and how do I measure the hardness of the water)? > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24297 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 20:45:24 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 20:45:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9509 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 20:45:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 20:45:17 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160qVA-0002A0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 20:37:48 +0000 Received: from smtp1.libero.it ([193.70.192.51]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160qV9-00029v-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 20:37:47 +0000 Received: from ath650 (151.20.94.166) by smtp1.libero.it (6.0.032) id 3BD437D50041EE68 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 5 Nov 2001 21:36:59 +0100 Message-ID: <4.1.20011105140934.019268f0@pop.tiscalinet.it> Message-ID: <4.1.20011105140934.019268f0@pop.tiscalinet.it> X-Sender: IK1ODO@popmail.libero.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Versione 4.1 Data: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 21:36:54 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Marco Bruno" Subject: Re: LF: Re: spectrum 136kHz I2PHD/dj8wx In-reply-to: <3BE66466.F1BDFE8D@usa.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 20:37:47 +0000 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In 15.04 05/11/01 , Alberto wrote: >I asked my neighbors, but nobody has an ISDN line here. Just plain old analog. >But ADSL and ISDN can be found in a nearby town, about 5 km from here. >Given that today all telephone lines are buried, I am a bit skeptical about the >possibility to receive the 17th harmonic of a signal passing in a buried line >five kilometers from here. But in my life I have learnt that often reality >defies intuition and reasoning... > That's puzzling me... I remeber discussing about those spectral lines three years ago on the reflector! I will try to connect a spectrum analyzer (or an RX with Argo) to my phone lines, and see if there is any residual of 8 kHz harmonics. My lines are analogic, but in the central exchange they are, by sure, digitized at 8kHz rate... some digital buzz may leak out. Differential or common mode? who knows... 73 - Marco IK1ODO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2756 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 20:35:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 20:35:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 3833 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 20:35:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 20:35:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160qGW-00028B-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 20:22:40 +0000 Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.46]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160qGV-000286-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 20:22:40 +0000 Received: from compaq ([62.253.46.81]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20011105202156.ZFMB21455.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@compaq> for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2001 20:21:56 +0000 Message-ID: <00a601c16637$8a839c40$092cfd3e@compaq> From: "Tracey Gardner" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Electronic water softeners Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 20:20:51 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Your water supplier should be able to tell you the hardness of the water. Tracey >My ion-exchange resin water softener needs replacing. I am thinking of >trying one of the electronic systems, but wonder if there are any LF QRM >concerns (and how do I measure the hardness of the water)? > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29816 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 18:40:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 18:40:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 6530 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 18:40:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 18:40:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160oV2-0001qg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 18:29:32 +0000 Received: from mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.138]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160oV0-0001qb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 18:29:31 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.178.151]) by mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20011105182815.IKV15911.mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Tue, 6 Nov 2001 07:28:15 +1300 Message-ID: <002901c16627$fb93a700$97b21bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200111010724_MC3-414D-935B@compuserve.com> <001101c162d8$6ef36f30$0400000a@parissn2> <3BE31FFF.C0788E6E@usa.net> <160JaP-1LPangC@fwd02.sul.t-online.com> <3BE55DBA.BD1FB024@usa.net> <003101c1655e$a949c5c0$1bb51bca@xtr743187> <3BE66466.F1BDFE8D@usa.net> Subject: LF: Re: Re: spectrum 136kHz I2PHD/dj8wx Date: Tue, 6 Nov 2001 07:29:55 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alberto and others, > thanks for your message. > Yes, I had read that explanation on the reflector, but I am still puzzled, as I > live in a small village, and the local Telecom told me that ADSL will be > available here not sooner than at least 6 months. And when they say 6 months, > they mean not less than 12.... > I asked my neighbors, but nobody has an ISDN line here. Just plain old analog. > But ADSL and ISDN can be found in a nearby town, about 5 km from here. > Given that today all telephone lines are buried, I am a bit skeptical about the > possibility to receive the 17th harmonic of a signal passing in a buried line > five kilometers from here. But in my life I have learnt that often reality defies > intuition and reasoning... Digital networking has been around for some 20 years, with A/D and D/A conversion at the exchange. Interconnections between exchanges and the "network" are entirely with digital format, with data rates of 2 to 156 Mbit/s. Subscribers still think they have an analogue connection, but it is only as far as the exchange. The likes of ADSL or ISDN bring digital format into the subcriber loop, but that is additional to what I was mentioning in my earlier comments. I suggest you "have a listen" to your phone line, using a suitably rated audio isolation transformer (as per domestic modems) into your PC sound card, and see what Argo indicates around 136 kHz, and other multiples of 8 or 64 kbit/s. 73, Bob From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18845 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 17:54:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 17:54:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 27562 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 17:54:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 17:54:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160nkQ-0001is-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 17:41:22 +0000 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160nkO-0001in-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 17:41:21 +0000 Received: from abc (man-s157.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.45.28]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id fA5HeSX22530 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2001 17:40:29 GMT Message-ID: <000b01c16621$395043c0$1c2df7c2@zetnet.co.uk> From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Electronic water softeners Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 17:41:40 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: My ion-exchange resin water softener needs replacing. I am thinking of trying one of the electronic systems, but wonder if there are any LF QRM concerns (and how do I measure the hardness of the water)? 73 de John Rabson G3PAI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26785 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 15:14:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 15:14:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 2532 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 15:14:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 15:14:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160lMg-0001K4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 15:08:42 +0000 Received: from antiochus-fe0.ultra.net ([146.115.8.188]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160lMf-0001Jz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 15:08:41 +0000 Received: from comrex (d209.dial-5.cmb.ma.ultra.net [209.6.68.209]) by antiochus-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n20340/mtc.v2) with SMTP id KAA02983 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2001 10:07:52 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003d01c1660b$d9617200$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000201c16602$5244e8a0$bc23893e@g3aqc> Subject: LF: Re: 73kHz Beacon Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 10:08:51 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Laurie, I've been listening, too. Nothing seen on Friday night or Sunday night. The frequency is much better than the original, though. I will listen again tonight, though that CME is reported to be taking the high speed express from old Sol. John Andrews, W1TAG > Many thanks Dex. for listening. Can you confirn that my freq. > 72.402kHz is satisfactory ? > Conditions have been good so I will continue with the tests. I will however > go to 120sec dots for a bit more S/N. This shows up some instability in my > exciter when transmitting dots so I will transmit only " AQC " this should > be didtinctive enough. > I will transmit tonight and tomorrow at least, hoping that Alans > predicted CME will stay away for a bit longer. 73s Laurie. > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19663 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 14:38:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 14:38:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1451 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 14:38:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 14:38:16 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160ko9-0001DK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 14:33:01 +0000 Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160ko8-0001DD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 14:33:00 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v5.0.0.R) for ; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 14:19:37 +0000 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 14:19:25 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Aerial system resistance at PA0SE Message-ID: <3BE69FED.6290.1155FA6@localhost> In-reply-to: <000201c165fe$20161060$4f8d153e@w8k3f0> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: PA0SE wrote: > This is connected to the gas pipe that carries the aerial > current to earth. Isn't that dangerous? Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9754 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 14:10:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 14:10:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 29149 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 14:10:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 14:10:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160kKM-00017i-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 14:02:14 +0000 Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160kKL-00017d-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 14:02:13 +0000 Received: from modem-188.keyhole-butterfly.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.35.188] helo=g3aqc) by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 160kJg-0006XW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 14:01:33 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c16602$5244e8a0$bc23893e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 73kHz Beacon Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 14:00:06 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Many thanks Dex. for listening. Can you confirn that my freq. 72.402kHz is satisfactory ? Conditions have been good so I will continue with the tests. I will however go to 120sec dots for a bit more S/N. This shows up some instability in my exciter when transmitting dots so I will transmit only " AQC " this should be didtinctive enough. I will transmit tonight and tomorrow at least, hoping that Alans predicted CME will stay away for a bit longer. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12375 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 13:46:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 13:46:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 12546 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 13:46:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 13:46:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160jx4-00011f-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 13:38:10 +0000 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160jx3-00011a-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 13:38:09 +0000 Received: from [62.7.101.187] (helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 160jwN-0000ca-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 13:37:28 +0000 Message-ID: <000a01c165ff$00b7dcc0$bb65073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: re Propagation to IK5 Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 13:36:25 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Mike and all, I think it is proabably that there was some enhancement out to 1700z, the flux did not drop below M1.0 before 1800 according the NOAA Geos plot. propagation would normally have dropped by then and be just beginning to think about rising with the onset of dusk. Looking at Brian's plot for Sun / Mon the daytime path was considerably enhanced (15-20dB) over normal for the last 3 days due to the recent geomagnetic effects and the effect of the flare did not really show up dramatically. It may have 'filled in' the normal dip in strength just before dusk. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6930 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 13:44:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 13:44:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 11091 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 13:44:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 13:44:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160jr6-00010W-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 13:32:00 +0000 Received: from cmailenv3.svr.pol.co.uk ([213.218.77.55]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160jr5-00010R-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 13:31:59 +0000 Received: from [62.21.141.79] (helo=w8k3f0) by cmailENV3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 160jqQ-0003P2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 13:31:18 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c165fe$20161060$4f8d153e@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20011105101340.2be78370@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: Re: LF: Aerial system resistance at PA0SE Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 14:27:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dr. OM, Rik, ON7YD wrote: > > I just put Dick's data into excel, the trendline says R = 4568/F > Remarkable is that, while the previous data (M0BMU, ZL2CA) gave a very good > fit, there are a lot of 'bumps' in Dick's data. > This encourages my idea that the measure loss resistance is far more than > just the ground loss. > This could be due to the strange configuration, especially the central heating system. This is connected to the gas pipe that carries the aerial current to earth. But that system is also capacitively and inductively coupled to the house wiring which in turn has its own capacitance to earth.. I also noticed the irregularities but they remained after repeated measurements, so they are really there. > Question to Dick : do the given values include the coil-loss or did you > qlready subtract it ? Yes, I did subtract the coil resistance. 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11667 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 10:16:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 10:16:03 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29081 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 10:15:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 10:15:57 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160gf3-0000W4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 10:07:21 +0000 Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.101]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160gf2-0000Vw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 10:07:20 +0000 Received: from northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (northrelay01.pok.ibm.com [9.117.200.21]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA391938 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2001 05:03:31 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss9.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.75]) by northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.00) with ESMTP id fA5A63i87878 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2001 05:06:05 -0500 Message-ID: <3BE66466.F1BDFE8D@usa.net> Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 11:05:26 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: spectrum 136kHz I2PHD/dj8wx References: <200111010724_MC3-414D-935B@compuserve.com> <001101c162d8$6ef36f30$0400000a@parissn2> <3BE31FFF.C0788E6E@usa.net> <160JaP-1LPangC@fwd02.sul.t-online.com> <3BE55DBA.BD1FB024@usa.net> <003101c1655e$a949c5c0$1bb51bca@xtr743187> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Vernall wrote: > Alberto and others, > > The most plausible explanation, as already mentioned on the reflector, is > that the lines come from the sampling rate of 8 kHz used by digital > telephone systems. There could be several telephone exchanges in a city and > while they likely have stable master oscillators, they are not necessarily > "locked". Telephone systems still use a lot of copper pairs, covering > kilometres of distance, so it would be feasible for some radiation to occur > for any high frequency spectral content in the telephone signal. > [...] Hello Bob, thanks for your message. Yes, I had read that explanation on the reflector, but I am still puzzled, as I live in a small village, and the local Telecom told me that ADSL will be available here not sooner than at least 6 months. And when they say 6 months, they mean not less than 12.... I asked my neighbors, but nobody has an ISDN line here. Just plain old analog. But ADSL and ISDN can be found in a nearby town, about 5 km from here. Given that today all telephone lines are buried, I am a bit skeptical about the possibility to receive the 17th harmonic of a signal passing in a buried line five kilometers from here. But in my life I have learnt that often reality defies intuition and reasoning... 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25970 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 10:09:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 10:09:30 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18201 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 10:09:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 10:09:31 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160gbS-0000Vr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 10:03:38 +0000 Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160gbQ-0000Vl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 10:03:37 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v5.0.0.R) for ; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 09:56:52 +0000 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 09:56:41 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Propagation Message-ID: <3BE66259.22057.24D416@localhost> In-reply-to: <000a01c1658e$67a1c160$7d0e073e@default> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3NYK wrote: > There was another X-Class (X1.0) flare at about 1600z today Sunday and also a > substantial Proton event following it. I wonder if this means a good night for > DX before the CME arrives in 56 to 72 hours time. Look out for aurora on either > Tuesday or Wednesday midnight. Over the weekend, I called CQ a couple of times, but no takers. DX heard on Sunday, 4 Nov, included HB9ASB (549), F6BWO (549), DK5PT (559) and IK5ZPV (a good signal at 559, calling CQ and QSX 3.5MHz). IK5ZPV was heard at about 1700 so was the good signal due to the flare reported by Alan above? Fixed a minor fault on my antenna caused by a cable-tie becoming brittle and snapping - never use cable ties on LF antennas! Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13482 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 09:25:42 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 09:25:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16154 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 09:25:43 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 09:25:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160fro-0000O7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 09:16:28 +0000 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160frl-0000O2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 09:16:26 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA172118 for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2001 10:15:43 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20011105101340.2be78370@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 05 Nov 2001 10:13:40 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Aerial system resistance at PA0SE In-reply-to: <001a01c16544$9a5619c0$0c91153e@w8k3f0> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 16:22 4/11/01 +0100, you wrote: >Dear OM, > >After M0BMU, G3NYK and ZL2CA I also measured the resistance of my aerial/earth >system. Hello all, I just put Dick's data into excel, the trendline says R = 4568/F Remarkable is that, while the previous data (M0BMU, ZL2CA) gave a very good fit, there are a lot of 'bumps' in Dick's data. This encourages my idea that the measure loss resistance is far more than just the ground loss. Question to Dick : do the given values include the coil-loss or did you qlready subtract it ? 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 102 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 00:20:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 00:20:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 11543 invoked from network); 5 Nov 2001 00:20:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Nov 2001 00:20:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160XMs-0007pF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 00:11:58 +0000 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160XMr-0007pA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 00:11:57 +0000 Received: from [62.7.14.125] (helo=default) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 160XM7-0006op-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Nov 2001 00:11:11 +0000 Message-ID: <000a01c1658e$67a1c160$7d0e073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Propagation Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 00:11:21 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: There was another X-Class (X1.0) flare at about 1600z today Sunday and also a substantial Proton event following it. I wonder if this means a good night for DX before the CME arrives in 56 to 72 hours time. Look out for aurora on either Tuesday or Wednesday midnight. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11857 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2001 18:39:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2001 18:39:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 17399 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2001 18:38:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2001 18:38:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160S0R-00074l-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2001 18:28:27 +0000 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.129]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160S0P-00074f-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2001 18:28:26 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.181.27]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20011104182710.IJJK3964.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Mon, 5 Nov 2001 07:27:10 +1300 Message-ID: <003101c1655e$a949c5c0$1bb51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200111010724_MC3-414D-935B@compuserve.com> <001101c162d8$6ef36f30$0400000a@parissn2> <3BE31FFF.C0788E6E@usa.net> <160JaP-1LPangC@fwd02.sul.t-online.com> <3BE55DBA.BD1FB024@usa.net> Subject: LF: Re: Re: spectrum 136kHz I2PHD/dj8wx Date: Mon, 5 Nov 2001 07:28:52 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alberto and others, > Hi Uwe, > yes, our spectra are quite different. And they seem also to differ from what Ko > has captured and sent to me. The only common factor is that at 136kHz there > seems to be a sort of clustering of spectral lines, albeit different from location > to location. I can only say that the spectrum at my location is time-invariant, sort of. > I have always seen those lines, night and day, winter and summer, with no signs > of modulation. Go figure... The most plausible explanation, as already mentioned on the reflector, is that the lines come from the sampling rate of 8 kHz used by digital telephone systems. There could be several telephone exchanges in a city and while they likely have stable master oscillators, they are not necessarily "locked". Telephone systems still use a lot of copper pairs, covering kilometres of distance, so it would be feasible for some radiation to occur for any high frequency spectral content in the telephone signal. The basic digital telephone circuit has a bit rate of 64 kbit/s (8 bit data sampled at 8 kHz, analogue audio response to 4 kHz) so this also has potential for "harmonic leakage" into the LF radio band. 64 kbit/s is still related to the basic 8 kHz sampling rate, so it could be difficult to distinguish which bit stream the harmonics are coming from. Harmonics of the 8 kHz sampling rate would not have modulation, but harmonics of 64 kbit/s would vary somewhat with baseband modulation. No doubt the 136.00 kHz nominal lines have come up for discussion because there are many amateurs tuning a narrow band for DX radio signals, and with new tools like Argo it effectively gives bigger ears for detecting sinusoidal types of emissions, even if they are below conventional noise levels. As others have suggested, there is probably a whole array of weak LF lines that originate from digital telephony, and they would tend to be worse in larger cities (highest number of telephone lines acting as antennas, multiple exchanges, etc). The practical application for DX radio testing is to avoid spot frequencies that are multiples of 8 kHz ! Telephone exchanges are unlikely to respond with QSL cards ;-) 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5360 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2001 18:24:07 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2001 18:24:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5824 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2001 18:24:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2001 18:24:08 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160Rrb-00073i-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2001 18:19:19 +0000 Received: from asterix.tee.gr ([212.70.193.140]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160Rra-00073d-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2001 18:19:18 +0000 Received: from teeserver.tee.gr (teeserver.tee.gr [212.70.193.130]) by asterix.tee.gr (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id fA4IIeZ27419 for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2001 20:18:41 +0200 Received: from s9o9f0.eexi.gr ([212.70.201.146]) by teeserver.tee.gr (Netscape Messaging Server 4.1) with ESMTP id GMAG9O00.GHW for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2001 20:20:12 +0200 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20011104192406.00a7bc30@aurora.eexi.gr> X-Sender: sv1xv@aurora.eexi.gr (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2001 19:25:53 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Costas Krallis SV1XV" Subject: Re: LF: The world below 535 kHz In-reply-to: <3BE56EC6.E13A21D4@usa.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 17:37 4/11/2001 +0100, Alberto di Bene, I2PHD, wrote: >I just came across this interesting page, named >"The world below 535 kHz" >http://www.qsl.net/sv1xv/lw.htm Hi ALberto, I'm glad you liked it! 73 Costas SV1XV +------------------------------------------------------------+ | Costas Krallis SV1XV * LOC KM18UA | | P.O.Box 3066 * E-Mail: sv1xv@eexi.gr | | GR-10210 Athens * PGP key: 0x3BDBBC34 | | GREECE * http://www.qsl.net/sv1xv/ | | * http://w4u.eexi.gr/~sv1xv/ | +------------------------------------------------------------+ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14776 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2001 16:43:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2001 16:43:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15959 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2001 16:43:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2001 16:43:02 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160QIv-0006qT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2001 16:39:25 +0000 Received: from e21.nc.us.ibm.com ([32.97.136.227]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160QIs-0006qL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2001 16:39:24 +0000 Received: from southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.208]) by e21.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA319680 for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2001 10:35:31 -0600 Received: from usa.net (ss4.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.69]) by southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.00) with ESMTP id fA4Gc4X59640 for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2001 11:38:04 -0500 Message-ID: <3BE56EC6.E13A21D4@usa.net> Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2001 17:37:26 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Mailing List" Subject: LF: The world below 535 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I just came across this interesting page, named "The world below 535 kHz" http://www.qsl.net/sv1xv/lw.htm If it is just old hat for you, please disregard this message. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15074 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2001 15:30:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2001 15:30:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 7391 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2001 15:30:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2001 15:30:45 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160PAW-0006hu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2001 15:26:40 +0000 Received: from e21.nc.us.ibm.com ([32.97.136.227]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160PAU-0006hp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2001 15:26:38 +0000 Received: from southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.208]) by e21.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA200232 for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2001 09:22:49 -0600 Received: from usa.net (ss4.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.69]) by southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.00) with ESMTP id fA4FPKX93612 for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2001 10:25:22 -0500 Message-ID: <3BE55DBA.BD1FB024@usa.net> Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2001 16:24:42 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: spectrum 136kHz I2PHD/dj8wx References: <200111010724_MC3-414D-935B@compuserve.com> <001101c162d8$6ef36f30$0400000a@parissn2> <3BE31FFF.C0788E6E@usa.net> <160JaP-1LPangC@fwd02.sul.t-online.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: jannsen wrote: > [...] > Hi Alberto, > vy diff specras around 136kHz at ur QTH and mine. see enclosured Spectran shots. > took a part out of ur pic named "at136kHz". sri for disfiguring it. > [...] Hi Uwe, yes, our spectra are quite different. And they seem also to differ from what Ko has captured and sent to me. The only common factor is that at 136kHz there seems to be a sort of clustering of spectral lines, albeit different from location to location. I can only say that the spectrum at my location is time-invariant, sort of. I have always seen those lines, night and day, winter and summer, with no signs of modulation. Go figure... 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14809 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2001 15:29:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2001 15:29:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 6933 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2001 15:29:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2001 15:29:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160P87-0006hh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2001 15:24:11 +0000 Received: from cmailenv2.svr.pol.co.uk ([213.218.77.54]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160P85-0006hc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2001 15:24:09 +0000 Received: from [62.21.145.12] (helo=w8k3f0) by cmailENV2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 160P7I-0004Jr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2001 15:23:20 +0000 Message-ID: <001a01c16544$9a5619c0$0c91153e@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Aerial system resistance at PA0SE Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 16:22:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------030208030405030408010109" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030208030405030408010109 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Dear OM,
 
After M0BMU, G3NYK and ZL2CA I also measured the resistance of my aerial/earth system.
 
The aerial is a dipole of 2 x 20m with 11m open line feeder. See attachment. The two legs of the dipole slope down from 18m to about 14m at the ends and in the horizontal plane are at an angle of 100 degrees (it is a V-beam on 20m). For LF the feederlines are strapped together to convert the aerial into a T. The top is at 18m; the lower end of the feeder line at 7m (ending in the shack). There the aerial is connected to the loading/matching coil. Its bottom end is connected to the central heating system. The gas pipe feeding the boiler in the attic leads to the gas mains that is used as  earth electrode. The gas pipe carries the full aerial current and so forms part of the radiating system. The capacitance of the aerial is 385pF at 136kHz. 
The aerial without coil resonates at 1945kHz with a resistance of 52.6 ohms. Would not be too bad for topband!
It is a rather complicated system due to the capacitance between the vertical part (the feeder lines) and the mast and because of the central heating system with its radiators and pipes around the house, connected to the gas pipe that acts as part of the radiating system.
 
I used a Wayne Kerr admittance bridge that shows the admittance as a conductance in millimhos (now called millisiemens) in parallel with a capacitance in pF.
I left the C-control at zero because the aerial resistance was measured at resonance. Jim, M0BMU, has clearly explained why this is the better way.
As source and detector I used a Wandel & Goltermann signal generator SP-12 and selective level meter SPM-12. They can be interconnected so the SPM-12 also controls the frequency of the SP-12. Because in this way source and detector are always tuned to exactly the same frequency I could use the SPM-12 at its 25Hz bandwidth position which helped to avoid strong signals and noise received by the aerial polluting the measurements. 
 
The coil has taps after every ten turns. I shortcircuited increasing parts of the coil using those taps. (I also tried leaving the unused part open. But as the used part became smaller and the unused part larger the voltage at the top end of the coil increased more and more, rendering the system extremely sensitive to hand capacitance effect).
At each tap the frequency for resonance was sought and the conductance read from the bridge.
 
The resistance of the coil at each tap was found by replacing the aerial by a variable vacuum capacitor. The capacitor was adjusted until resonance was obtained. The high Q of the coil made tuning extremely critical; in fact hand capacitance made it impossible to tune precisely to the resonance frequency. Fortunately the frequency of the PS-12/SPM-12 combination can be adjusted in very small steps and this was used to tune exactly to the resonance frequency.
 
The accuracy of the following R-values is limited because the aerial wires moved a bit in the wind which caused the needle of the detector to jump wildly about when the null of the bridge was approached.
 
Frequency  Resistance
kHz                  ohms
126.5                    40.4
132.1                    36.8
136.4                    34.4
141.0                    32.5
146.5                    31.1                                
152.3                    28.5
158.9                    27.8
166.8                    27.0 
175.8                    26.4
185.7                    25.9
198.6                    25.4
214.8                    24.7
235.5                    20.5
261.0                    16.6
296.2                    14.8
346.4                    14.4
423.4                    16.6  
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
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Hn3/AAprwaDxaXef+vpqQ/BnwaRzZ3X/AIEtXoPagdqAPPf+FMeDP+fO74/6empf+FNeDsf8 et2P+3lq9AHWigDz0/Bfwd2t7wfS4NMb4K+FCPlN+v8A22B/mK9Fpf8AGgDzB/gj4eP+rvL5 Prsb+ldn4W8Mw+GdAh0q3uHliieRlZ1APzOWPT3Y1td6en3aAP/Z --------------030208030405030408010109-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9289 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2001 14:34:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2001 14:34:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 19314 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2001 14:34:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2001 14:34:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160OHu-0006b3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2001 14:30:14 +0000 Received: from mail12.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.215]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160OHt-0006ay-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2001 14:30:14 +0000 Received: from modem-86.orbic-cardinal.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.44.214] helo=g3aqc) by mail12.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 160OHE-0004Xt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2001 14:29:33 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c1653d$101b0060$d62c893e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 73kHz Beacon Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 14:04:13 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: After some tests I have decided to change to 90sec dots,this will give a few more db S/N and looks better on 60sec ARGO with the 0.1hZ shift.I will transmit tonight on 72.402 from 23:00utc. All reports welcome especially from T/A. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19621 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2001 13:06:21 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2001 13:06:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 13612 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2001 13:06:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2001 13:06:13 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160Mru-0006QM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2001 12:59:18 +0000 Received: from mail-6.tiscalinet.it ([195.130.225.152] helo=mail.tiscalinet.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160Mru-0006QH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2001 12:59:18 +0000 Received: from ath650 (62.10.46.157) by mail.tiscalinet.it (5.5.044) id 3BC53992007A13ED for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 4 Nov 2001 13:58:00 +0100 Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 13:58:00 +0100 (added by postmaster@mail.tiscalinet.it) Message-ID: <4.1.20011104100024.00a236f0@pop.tiscalinet.it> Message-ID: <4.1.20011104100024.00a236f0@pop.tiscalinet.it> X-Sender: spin.elec@pop.tiscalinet.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Versione 4.1 Data: Sun, 04 Nov 2001 10:02:12 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Marco Bruno IK1ODO" Subject: Re: LF: ZL6QH 136 tests In-reply-to: <001501c164e4$68bca880$94b51bca@rvernall> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In 10.53 04/11/01 , hai scritto: > > Hi all, > > ZL6QH tried out the 136 kHz band yesterday afternoon, and got good reports > from around New Zealand. It can therefore be expected that all night tests > will be possible on 1 and 15 December. Both are Saturday nights in New > Zealand, but we are 13 hours ahead of UTC (heading into summer, down here > :-). The radiated power is likely to be in the range of 1 to 5 watts. > Information on sunrise and sunset "windows" will be posted to the reflector > nearer to December. > > The preference is for ZL6QH to transmit near the top of the band, with 120 > second dots, 0.4 Hz shift DFCW, so the frequencies would be 137.7900 and > 137.7896 kHz, with stability of better than 0.1 Hz. Those frequencies are > just a little above those used by VA3LK. > > Are there any comments from European potential listeners as to viability of > the nominated frequencies? > > 73, Bob ZL2CA > >> >> > > > Band top is good for me. 137.7900 is usually quite clear. > > 73 - Marco IK1ODO - JN35SA > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5561 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2001 10:11:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2001 10:11:00 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6670 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2001 10:10:54 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2001 10:10:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160K7T-0006AO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2001 10:03:11 +0000 Received: from [204.202.140.199] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160K7S-0006AJ-00 for RSGB_LF_GROUP@BLACKSHEEP.ORG; Sun, 04 Nov 2001 10:03:10 +0000 Received: from gomailjtp05 ([10.212.0.165]) by mta07.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GM9009HBT7T29@mta07.seamail.go.com> for RSGB_LF_GROUP@BLACKSHEEP.ORG; Sun, 4 Nov 2001 02:02:18 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 04 Nov 2001 02:02:19 -0800 (PST) From: "John Sexton" Subject: Re: LF: ZL6QH 136 tests To: RSGB_LF_GROUP@BLACKSHEEP.ORG Message-ID: <8231271.1004868139722.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Bi Bob, These are good frequencies for me and worked well for Larry's transmissions last season. The Luxembourg effect simply appears as white noise spots, which cause no problem. The Window to Europe is probably going to be very small, so may be a problem to recognise sufficient characters, but best to start with very long dots. A bearing would help, so that I can make sure my loop is pointing in the optimum direction. Good luck. John, G4CNN -----Original Message----- From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat Nov 03 19:53:41 PST 2001 Subject: LF: ZL6QH 136 tests >Hi all,> >ZL6QH tried out the 136 kHz band yesterday afternoon, and got good reports from around New Zealand. It can therefore be expected that all night tests will be possible on 1 and 15 December. Both are Saturday nights in New Zealand, but we are 13 hours ahead of UTC (heading into summer, down here :-). The radiated power is likely to be in the range of 1 to 5 watts. Information on sunrise and sunset "windows" will be posted to the reflector nearer to December. > >The preference is for ZL6QH to transmit near the top of the band, with 120 second dots, 0.4 Hz shift DFCW, so the frequencies would be 137.7900 and 137.7896 kHz, with stability of better than 0.1 Hz. Those frequencies are just a little above those used by VA3LK. > >Are there any comments from European potential listeners as to viability of the nominated frequencies? > >73, Bob ZL2CA ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4326 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2001 09:35:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2001 09:35:05 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9452 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2001 09:34:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2001 09:34:57 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160JbV-00065l-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2001 09:30:09 +0000 Received: from mailout01.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.80] helo=mailout01.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160JbS-00065g-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2001 09:30:07 +0000 Received: from fwd02.sul.t-online.de by mailout01.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 160Jao-0007tH-01; Sun, 04 Nov 2001 10:29:26 +0100 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.227.109.8]) by fwd02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 160JaP-1LPangC; Sun, 4 Nov 2001 10:29:01 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200111010724_MC3-414D-935B@compuserve.com> <001101c162d8$6ef36f30$0400000a@parissn2> <3BE31FFF.C0788E6E@usa.net> Subject: LF: spectrum 136kHz I2PHD/dj8wx X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------090004070009060603010904" Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 10:29:01 +0100 Message-ID: <160JaP-1LPangC@fwd02.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090004070009060603010904 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Alberto di Bene schrieb: > Looking at the spectrum around 136 kHz, I noticed that in addition > to the three stronger carriers already mentioned, there are also > some more of weaker intensity. > > I captured the spectrum from 135995 to 136007 at 21 mHz resolution, > at my QTH (Northern Italy), with an untuned 40m wire sloper, > this evening November 2nd, 23:12 local time (UTC + 1) > You can see it here : http://www.qsl.net/i2phd/at136khz.jpg > > 73 Alberto I2PHD Hi Alberto, vy diff specras around 136kHz at ur QTH and mine. see enclosured Spectran shots. took a part out of ur pic named "at136kHz". sri for disfiguring it. regards Uwe/dj8wx 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gQtDAaTYuODDs6CVyX2negp7ENSYvMSETE9Z01/MNsMhBe9N6fkg7vDzFvE4pGlj+otjAvYP pJzAX9/a3mncw5qTQOoNTrCMsVJYFx+m7SwzItkcIfMlz3mJbIncEhNBGUpRjpKUpTTlKVFZ yoAAADs= --------------090004070009060603010904-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29993 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2001 09:14:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2001 09:14:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 20739 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2001 09:13:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2001 09:13:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160JHt-000635-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2001 09:09:53 +0000 Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.46]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160JHs-000630-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2001 09:09:52 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.102.120]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20011104090906.WRCT21455.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2001 09:09:06 +0000 Message-ID: <000701c16510$8233cec0$786668d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011004082609.00a1f080@mail.pncl.co.uk> <001501c164e4$68bca880$94b51bca@rvernall> Subject: LF: Re: ZL6QH 136 tests Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 09:10:10 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The preference is for ZL6QH to transmit near the top of the band, with 120 second dots, 0.4 Hz shift DFCW, so the frequencies would be 137.7900 and 137.7896 kHz, with stability of better than 0.1 Hz. Those frequencies are just a little above those used by VA3LK. Are there any comments from European potential listeners as to viability of the nominated frequencies? 73, Bob ZL2CA Bob, In Western Eu we have a nasty 'Luxemburg effect' that produces broadcast intermods at the very top of the band. I think you would be better using something like 137.600. It depends, of course, on the time of day you will be operating. Mike, G3XDV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15130 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2001 09:05:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2001 09:05:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 16799 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2001 09:05:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2001 09:05:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160J8U-00060y-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2001 09:00:10 +0000 Received: from mail3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160J8T-00060t-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2001 09:00:09 +0000 Received: from modem-19.arnor.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.125.147] helo=g3aqc) by mail3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 160J7o-00063q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2001 08:59:28 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c1650e$f327bda0$937d883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. ZL6QH 136 tests Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 08:57:05 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Bob and team, There is a strong carrier/spectral line here on the south coast on 137.46kHz which de-sensitises my reciever. Its possible that others will have the same problem. So I personally would prefer to see a lower frequency say down in the DFCW/DATA region 137.4 to 137.6 kHz or even at the top of the CW area now that CFH is not active.Having said this I did manage to copy Larry on 137.789.4 during last seasons T/A tests. The other point I should like to make is that the proposed shift of 0.4 Hz seems rather large. I am using 0.1Hz and even this looks very wide on 120sec dot Argo. Best of luck with the tests, I will certainly be listening/watching. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24267 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2001 04:03:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2001 04:03:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 26885 invoked from network); 4 Nov 2001 04:03:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Nov 2001 04:03:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160ENH-0005TQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2001 03:55:07 +0000 Received: from mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.138]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 160ENF-0005TI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Nov 2001 03:55:06 +0000 Received: from rvernall ([202.27.181.148]) by mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20011104035347.BZGP15911.mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz@rvernall> for ; Sun, 4 Nov 2001 16:53:47 +1300 Message-ID: <001501c164e4$68bca880$94b51bca@rvernall> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011004082609.00a1f080@mail.pncl.co.uk> Subject: LF: ZL6QH 136 tests Date: Sun, 4 Nov 2001 16:53:41 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi all,
 
ZL6QH tried out the 136 kHz band yesterday afternoon, and got good reports from around New Zealand.  It can  therefore be expected that all night tests will be possible on 1 and 15 December.  Both are Saturday nights in New Zealand, but we are 13 hours ahead of UTC (heading into summer, down here :-).  The radiated power is likely to be in the range of 1 to 5 watts.  Information on sunrise and sunset "windows" will be posted to the reflector nearer to December.
 
The preference is for ZL6QH to transmit near the top of the band, with 120 second dots, 0.4 Hz shift DFCW, so the frequencies would be 137.7900 and 137.7896 kHz, with stability of better than 0.1 Hz.  Those frequencies are just a little above those used by VA3LK.
 
Are there any comments from European potential listeners as to viability of the nominated frequencies?
 
73, Bob ZL2CA
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2587 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2001 16:48:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2001 16:48:34 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16776 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2001 16:48:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2001 16:48:26 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1603sq-0004L3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Nov 2001 16:43:00 +0000 Received: from mailout06.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.19] helo=mailout06.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 1603so-0004Ky-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Nov 2001 16:42:58 +0000 Received: from fwd01.sul.t-online.de by mailout06.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 1603s8-00027X-01; Sat, 03 Nov 2001 17:42:16 +0100 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.156.6.157]) by fwd01.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 1603rl-2L6s9QC; Sat, 3 Nov 2001 17:41:53 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: Re: LF: 136.000 spectrum X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------000706070107040600060102" Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 17:41:53 +0100 Message-ID: <1603rl-2L6s9QC@fwd01.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000706070107040600060102 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit James Moritz schrieb: > Dear LF group, > > I left my PC running last night to record the spectrum of the signal > on 136.0kHz. The attached image obtained using Spectrum Lab > shows a few hours from early this morning, which is > representative, but the spectrum changes slowly and continuously > all the time. > > The signal is received as LSB, and to get the actual frequency > from the scale on the left, > f(actual) = 136800 - f(scale) (Hz), accurate to within 0.1Hz > > I found a similar group of carriers clustered around 144kHz, but > other harmonics of 8kHz were too noisy at my QTH to get a > convincing picture. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU Hi Jim, Brian, Wolf, Geri, Steward es All, chaotic group of carriers just above 136.0 kHz here in jo43sv (SpecLab shot enclosed). qrg stable, strength fading (loran lines constant). ISDN ? nothing similar on 128kHz or 144kHz. no ISDN- or DSL-cables here around (countryside). distance to next ISDN-user: three km. regards Uwe/dj8wx --------------000706070107040600060102 Content-Type: image/gif; name="SPEC10.GIF" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="SPEC10.GIF" R0lGODdhEAGXAPcAAAAAAAAAQAAAgAAA/wAgAAAgQAAggAAg/wBAAABAQABAgABA/wBgAABg QABggABg/wCAAACAQACAgACA/wCgAACgQACggACg/wDAAADAQADAgADA/wD/AAD/QAD/gAD/ /yAAACAAQCAAgCAA/yAgACAgQCAggCAg/yBAACBAQCBAgCBA/yBgACBgQCBggCBg/yCAACCA QCCAgCCA/yCgACCgQCCggCCg/yDAACDAQCDAgCDA/yD/ACD/QCD/gCD//0AAAEAAQEAAgEAA /0AgAEAgQEAggEAg/0BAAEBAQEBAgEBA/0BgAEBgQEBggEBg/0CAAECAQECAgECA/0CgAECg QECggECg/0DAAEDAQEDAgEDA/0D/AED/QED/gED//2AAAGAAQGAAgGAA/2AgAGAgQGAggGAg /2BAAGBAQGBAgGBA/2BgAGBgQGBggGBg/2CAAGCAQGCAgGCA/2CgAGCgQGCggGCg/2DAAGDA QGDAgGDA/2D/AGD/QGD/gGD//4AAAIAAQIAAgIAA/4AgAIAgQIAggIAg/4BAAIBAQIBAgIBA /4BgAIBgQIBggIBg/4CAAICAQICAgICA/4CgAICgQICggICg/4DAAIDAQIDAgIDA/4D/AID/ 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Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2001 10:22:10 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15zxlZ-0003kW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Nov 2001 10:11:05 +0000 Received: from kura.mail.jippii.net ([195.197.172.113]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15zxlY-0003kR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Nov 2001 10:11:04 +0000 Received: from meisaku (MMDCLII.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.44.252]) by kura.mail.jippii.net (Postfix) with SMTP id CEC762A44 for ; Sat, 3 Nov 2001 12:10:19 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20011103121019.00875c40@pop.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: vaiski1@pop.saunalahti.fi X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sat, 03 Nov 2001 12:10:19 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: LF: Reino, OH1TN and storms In-reply-to: <000201c16388$457e6d20$cdd97ad5@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: It was very unfortunate that Reino lost two masts in a snow storm just a couple of days ago... The masts just collapsed and as far as I know this affects his LF band activity as well... Regards from Vaino, OH2LX and ...Reino, of course |---------------------------------------------------------| | V.K.Lehtoranta ¤ 60N33.6 024E58.7 KP20LN74 | | P.O.Box 50 ¤ Telephone: +358-9-4173965 | | FIN-05401, Jokela ¤ Telefax: +358-9-4173961 | | Finland ¤ email: vaiski@dlc.fi | |---------------------------------------------------------| From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7022 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2001 04:49:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2001 04:49:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 6911 invoked from network); 3 Nov 2001 04:49:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Nov 2001 04:49:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15zsYJ-0003FG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Nov 2001 04:37:03 +0000 Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.130]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15zsYH-0003F9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Nov 2001 04:37:01 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.181.60]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20011103043547.SXPL5089.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Sat, 3 Nov 2001 17:35:47 +1300 Message-ID: <004801c16421$57f72e80$4cb51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: Re: LF: Aerial conundrum.... ZL2CA's antenna Date: Sat, 3 Nov 2001 17:37:32 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jim M0BMU and other readers, I don't think I have a "special antenna" but I have been thinking as to why it is a low resistance system. > I'm still not clear what the configuration above ground of ZL2CA's > antenna was at the time he did his impedance measurements - if it > was 8m high then as it is now, the estimated loss resistance of > around 12 ohms at 136k is extraordinarily low compared with other > antennas of similar size. It would certainly be interesting to know, > since this represents a substantial improvement in efficiency, a > factor of 3 better than mine, for example. One possible reason for my low loss is that one part of the top loading is a delta loop that goes over my house roof, and the roofing material is corrugated iron. Many years back I decided to bond adjacent sheets with stainless steel self tapper screws, and earth the whole roof, so as to guard against intermodulation and harmonics from HF transmitting with 400 watts PEP. The earthed iron sheets are far more conductive than soil, so under that part of my top loading I probably approach "metal ground plane conditions". However, it also is very likely it gives me a significant penalty in effective height. The other side of my top loading is reasonably in the clear, and has fairly good earth radials under it as they were easier to run, as most of the ground is lawn. At the time of the impedance measurements I had a multi-wire fan, with 9 or 10 wires in the fan, to give high capacitance and all wires were at good height. However, it used the street frontage pole originally put there for telephone and mains power reticulation, but I found it very convenient to bang a nail in the top and support LF top loading. As I mentioned earlier, I received a "Dear John" letter about my use of the pole, so I decided to remove my wire, which had a drastic impact on my top loading. Now my resistance increased with the reduced top loading. So in summary, I'm probably doing well on low losses because of the earthed roof, but on the other hand I would rather have an antenna than a low loss capacitor on the end of the transmitter, so there are swings and roundabouts as to resistance and effective height. 73, Bob From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 431 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2001 22:42:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Nov 2001 22:42:39 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3180 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2001 22:42:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Nov 2001 22:42:32 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15zmxU-0002Xy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2001 22:38:40 +0000 Received: from e21.nc.us.ibm.com ([32.97.136.227]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15zmxT-0002Xt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2001 22:38:39 +0000 Received: from southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.208]) by e21.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA365214 for ; Fri, 2 Nov 2001 16:34:53 -0600 Received: from usa.net (ss5.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.70]) by southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v5.00) with ESMTP id fA2MbOg112352 for ; Fri, 2 Nov 2001 17:37:25 -0500 Message-ID: <3BE31FFF.C0788E6E@usa.net> Date: Fri, 02 Nov 2001 23:36:47 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: "Weak CW" on 136.000 References: <200111010724_MC3-414D-935B@compuserve.com> <001101c162d8$6ef36f30$0400000a@parissn2> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Looking at the spectrum around 136 kHz, I noticed that in addition to the three stronger carriers already mentioned, there are also some more of weaker intensity. I captured the spectrum from 135995 to 136007 at 21 mHz resolution, at my QTH (Northern Italy), with an untuned 40m wire sloper, this evening November 2nd, 23:12 local time (UTC + 1) You can see it here : http://www.qsl.net/i2phd/at136khz.jpg 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9628 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2001 20:09:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Nov 2001 20:09:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 21414 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2001 20:09:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Nov 2001 20:09:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15zkTz-0002Gv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2001 20:00:03 +0000 Received: from cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.173]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15zkTw-0002GS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2001 20:00:00 +0000 Received: from modem-22.aranruth.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.119.150] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15zkTH-0005cK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2001 19:59:19 +0000 Message-ID: <000b01c163d8$cb2a0920$9677883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re Beacon Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 19:57:58 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I will run the 73kHz beacon tonight and for the next 2/3 nights condx. permitting. DFCW 60sec dots. Freq 72.402kHz, starting 2300utc. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28696 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2001 14:49:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Nov 2001 14:49:53 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10778 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2001 14:49:43 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Nov 2001 14:49:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15zfTX-0001gh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2001 14:39:15 +0000 Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.7]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15zfTR-0001gZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2001 14:39:10 +0000 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.8.) id l.12.14cf07ff (24898) for ; Fri, 2 Nov 2001 09:37:54 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <12.14cf07ff.291409c0@aol.com> Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 09:37:52 EST Subject: Re: LF: 136.000 spectrum To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------020204050501080404070608" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 10504 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020204050501080404070608 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Jim, Brian, Stewart and the group,

First of all thanks to Stewart for the excellent explanation of the stable signals on 136.00 kHz (received it too late to check the next harmonic of 8kHz but I will do that later).

I had the chance for some further investigations on 136.00X kHz on Thursday evening. Taking a closer look at one signal near 136.0 kHz, I found there where two frequencies again, about 63 millihertz apart (my 10MHz-OCXO was not on long enough, so no absolute accuracy). The separation between the two lines remained stable throughout a 30 min observation period (then it got too cold for in the shack at DF0WD). I could not find any combination of Loran lines and "harmonics" to explain this.
A small screenshot is attached. The slow drift if a result of my onheated OCXO. The frequency scale is inverted because the RX uses LSB when in "CW" position.

Question to the experts: What happens every 16 seconds (=1/63mHz)  in an ISDN net or similar ? Is the carrier phase inverted regularly for some reason ? Or what else can be the cause of the 63mHz gap, which does not seem to be related to propagation effecs ("QSB") ?

Well, not too urgent to solve this riddle; I guess we all can live with the simple fact that it is there, and -as Jim wrote- the carriers on 136.00X have been there since we started on LF.


Best regards, good hunting
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#2) id 15zcgx-0001KQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2001 11:40:55 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15zcgE-00036h-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2001 11:40:10 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15zcgE-00071X-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2001 11:40:10 +0000 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 11:43:38 +0000 X-Total-Enclosures: 1 X-Enclosure-Info: DOS,"136_03.jpg",,,,JPEG-image Subject: LF: 136.000 spectrum X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------010006050804040402060807" MIME-Version: 1.0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010006050804040402060807 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear LF group, I left my PC running last night to record the spectrum of the signal on 136.0kHz. The attached image obtained using Spectrum Lab shows a few hours from early this morning, which is representative, but the spectrum changes slowly and continuously all the time. The signal is received as LSB, and to get the actual frequency from the scale on the left, f(actual) = 136800 - f(scale) (Hz), accurate to within 0.1Hz I found a similar group of carriers clustered around 144kHz, but other harmonics of 8kHz were too noisy at my QTH to get a convincing picture. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU -------------- Enclosure number 1 ---------------- * This message contains the file '136_03.jpg', which has been * uuencoded. 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ego3rznhJn8K4dgYb4III6OjpBBBHR0KZScmKc8p6Vcy3FNusE4QbocQULGvalSh89NYTQQQ cwMqOEEEEEBHQQQQR0dGeq0HVBBFg9oiO8xOzE2xKMvuYm5RossDCBgQVqcI038pajr29lo4 AXB7hBBAi/WkTBiNiO2MQQQUw161MQIIIIIAXiY3SkE27if4XjvIzsxT31PyrmW4pl1onCDd DiFNrGvalSh89NYIIaAG8nx9hAwlggghSCjZKQQruH+MYIsPnBBFhAYeHvERslALZVre9v4R hYwrIEEEWrSBJB8PeOzjBFgD2wpmJuYm5SUbfcxIlGiywmwGBGNS7aDXlOLOvb2AQQQKAHPh HGLn/wDx/pzU/LbStOKKQFSuuWhfOEw2dFpI3KPVruNwSDa7+yJmphx0VyeaQ6onKRKyRSgK OqRiYJI864NSScSrk4jcgjDx6UnFqBGQ94d31JkoYteOY2MW5bHtFUlYhY3lJE3xb/8Ak/Xm uX7cav3jcGxi3LY9oqkrELG8pIm+Lf8A8n681y/bjV+8bkEK9mjQRX2sz+o+cK5TZhttlbb9 QmJtTn7R+WlcSQpJBAwsgEEvLOoNyT1KUFePK97Q1Pxbv3mCCGdmgCZMA4e8XYskoQT1aCo+ o0nwivzOwM+z074uX+x6CCNaEYKN6854SZ/CuJXty/MbH1d/Y+izUzL06RfTMZiX1hyYcWhp YU5YhJKSlOGyRa19TcwQQjiK4mSk2r6CkELGH2h7L0nb7aHaIz0uqRck5snHIuKBeK1ruV5h WPd0whI1Pdat6j6jSfCK/M7BBD0DAz7PTvi5f7HoKN6854SZ/CuCCOjob4III6Oj/9k= --------------010006050804040402060807-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15721 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2001 10:33:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Nov 2001 10:33:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 20875 invoked from network); 2 Nov 2001 10:33:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Nov 2001 10:33:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15zbTs-0001At-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2001 10:23:20 +0000 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15zbTr-0001Ao-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2001 10:23:19 +0000 Received: from [213.122.217.205] (helo=default) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15zbTC-0005yD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Nov 2001 10:22:38 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c16388$457e6d20$cdd97ad5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Propagation (Thursday) Date: Fri, 2 Nov 2001 10:21:34 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, the latest plot of DCF39 from Brian (CT1DRP) indicates that as forecast, that the daytime propagation on Thursday was very good. Levels of DCF39 received at Porto (DX 1950 kms) where between 15 and 20dB higher than average between dawn and about 1330z. There where a few deep fades, but in general the levels were steady. The nightime signals were down on average but not catastrophically. Expect deep rapid fades at night-time on longer paths for the next few nights. The daytime enhancement may just last another couple of days. It looks like this period of disturbance is set to last for some days to some. There was an increase in the general level of X-ray flux yesterday and I would not be surprised to see another big X-Class flare soon. Happy hunting Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14325 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2001 18:50:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Nov 2001 18:50:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 12062 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2001 18:50:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Nov 2001 18:50:48 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15zMeu-00082q-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2001 18:33:44 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15zMet-00082l-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2001 18:33:43 +0000 Received: from ldsas03-67-118-179.cw-visp.com ([212.137.118.179] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15zMUx-0003gt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2001 18:23:28 +0000 Message-ID: <3BE194FA.59C7050C@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 18:31:23 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: micropower Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The beacon signal on normal cw 135.87 approx very strong and the slow cw on 137.63 approx also strong. These signals have been copied and identified aurally without any visual enhancements or computer aids. Computer visual aids are not necessary to copy 3,10 or 500 second transmissions at this qth. Get yourself a proper antenna, a competent cw operator and the rest is automatic. No need for expensive computers and hours/days/weeks to complete a qso, which is dubious anyway, considering that some of the participants cannot remember their name from one day to the next !!!!!!!! G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14376 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2001 15:18:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Nov 2001 15:18:31 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29842 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2001 15:18:28 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Nov 2001 15:18:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15zJRo-0007bJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2001 15:08:00 +0000 Received: from opcenter.thecia.net ([208.218.131.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15zJRm-0007bC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2001 15:07:58 +0000 Received: from p233 (dialup-63-209-225-18.thecia.net [63.209.225.18] (may be forged)) by opcenter.thecia.net (8.9.3+Sun/8.8.8+djf) with SMTP id KAA02183 for ; Thu, 1 Nov 2001 10:06:39 -0500 (EST) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed From: "Merv" Organization: McKee Engineering To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: Large coils... Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 10:11:37 -0500 X-Mailer: KMail [version 1.2] MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <01110110113700.01757@p233> Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On the subject of large coils I agree with Mal, G3KEV. Back in the old days of Top Band (160M) mobile we base-loaded our 6ft (2M) whips with single- -layer coils and put 3 or 4 taps on each of the lower turns. The resulting Q was so high that opening the car door lowered the resonant frequency out of the band. Multi-layered coils were tried but were nowhere close to the single-layer performance. Merv. NC1K (ex. G3PXB) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15600 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2001 13:30:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Nov 2001 13:30:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 23425 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2001 13:30:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Nov 2001 13:30:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15zHpf-0007Nx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2001 13:24:31 +0000 Received: from sun4.scgroup.com ([192.55.122.7]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15zHpd-0007Ns-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2001 13:24:30 +0000 Received: from parissn2 (AMontsouris-101-1-3-195.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.252.108.195]) by sun4.scgroup.com (8.9.1b+Sun/8.9.1) with SMTP id FAA18202 for ; Thu, 1 Nov 2001 05:23:40 -0800 (PST) Message-ID: <001101c162d8$6ef36f30$0400000a@parissn2> From: "Stewart Nelson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200111010724_MC3-414D-935B@compuserve.com> Subject: LF: Re: "Weak CW" on 136.000 Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 14:23:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, 136 kHz = 17 * 8 kHz. Almost anything to do with telephony has a frame rate of 8 kHz, including T1/E1, ISDN, and xDSL. The old style carriers used multiples of 4 kHz. So what you are seeing is not at all surprising. It would be interesting, for confirmation, if you observed similar signals at, say, 19 * 8 = 152 kHz (or another such harmonic where the band is quiet). 73, Stewart KK7KA > Hello LF group, > > >The spread in frequencies and the amount of drift would be > >consistent with an assortment of crystal oscillators on the same > >nominal frequency - perhaps it is a harmonic of some popular baud > >rate or similar? > > ... I made the observation that whenever I use my ISDN phone line I have a > carrier on 136.000 kHz (I did not check the exact frequency, though). > > Best 73 > > Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12828 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2001 12:42:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Nov 2001 12:42:39 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28587 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2001 12:42:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Nov 2001 12:42:30 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15zH2J-0007Fe-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2001 12:33:31 +0000 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15zH2G-0007FV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2001 12:33:29 +0000 Received: from ldsas12-76-127-154.cw-visp.com ([212.137.127.154] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15zGsI-0005K4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2001 12:23:11 +0000 Message-ID: <3BE140EC.ED79750E@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 12:32:44 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: best coil Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Shorted turns, turns left floating, coils within coils are not the way to proceed, althought this is a convenient method of resonating an antenna system. Having experimented with the above methods to obtain resonance, measure the inductance, then proceed to make a single layer coil that is exactly resonant at the desired frequency of operation. If it is found necessary to make a fine adjustment for a very precise frequency then use a small variable coil in series with the main coil at the cold end, and with a minimum of turns to achieve the object. If you have a vertical antenna around 100 feet plus the above exercise is not difficult, however with smaller vertical antennas where a lot of L is required obtaining resonance and especially fine tuning could be very critical, therefore one would possibly have to resort to the more lossy approach of having coils with shorted turns, variometers or shorted copper variable loops within the main inductor. One other approach is to use a suitable ferrite core material, that does not saturate, to fine tune, this is probably the most efficient method. The inductance required at my station to resonate the antenna is less than 450 microH so I do not have any real problems. With a little effort given time I could probably do away with the coil, by adding another couple of inv L's at 32 m high and over 100 m horiz. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19952 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2001 12:41:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Nov 2001 12:41:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8298 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2001 12:41:12 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Nov 2001 12:41:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15zGv0-0007En-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2001 12:25:58 +0000 Received: from siaag1ab.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15zGuy-0007Ei-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2001 12:25:57 +0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id HAA26723 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 1 Nov 2001 07:24:43 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 07:24:13 -0500 From: "Holger 'Geri', DK8KW" Subject: LF: "Weak CW" on 136.000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200111010724_MC3-414D-935B@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LF group, >The spread in frequencies and the amount of drift would be >consistent with an assortment of crystal oscillators on the same >nominal frequency - perhaps it is a harmonic of some popular baud >rate or similar? ... I made the observation that whenever I use my ISDN phone line I have a carrier on 136.000 kHz (I did not check the exact frequency, though). Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10998 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2001 11:32:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Nov 2001 11:32:58 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24242 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2001 11:32:55 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Nov 2001 11:32:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15zFxq-00076A-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2001 11:24:50 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15zFxp-000765-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2001 11:24:49 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15zFx9-0002mw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2001 11:24:07 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15zFx7-0007gs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2001 11:24:05 +0000 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 11:27:32 +0000 Subject: LF: "Weak CW" on 136.000 X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Dear LF group, I too can hear this - it has always been there since I started on LF, and does sound like very weak CW, but is never readable. I can hear it at any time the noise level is fairly low, and it is normally always visible on spectrogram displays. I had a look at it last night using Spectrum Lab and Argo at their higher resolutions, and it is not actually CW at all - it consists of a dozen or so carriers irregularly distributed between about 135.998 and 136.001kHz. Some of these are rock steady, others were drifting up or down by a fraction of a hertz over the two hours I observed them. The different frequencies beating together gives the "CW" effect The spread in frequencies and the amount of drift would be consistent with an assortment of crystal oscillators on the same nominal frequency - perhaps it is a harmonic of some popular baud rate or similar? Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26471 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2001 11:09:20 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Nov 2001 11:09:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28624 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2001 11:09:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Nov 2001 11:09:17 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15zFem-00073y-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2001 11:05:08 +0000 Received: from dargolad.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.27]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15zFek-00073t-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2001 11:05:06 +0000 Received: from srv17slx.esoterica.pt (srv17slx.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.47]) by dargolad.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id fA1B4N525466 for ; Thu, 1 Nov 2001 11:04:23 GMT Received: from slave-6 ([195.22.22.6]) by srv17slx.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id fA1B4Lp20249 for ; Thu, 1 Nov 2001 11:04:22 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20011101110420.00926bc0@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 11:04:20 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: Test Sigs In-reply-to: <3BE1132B.25805.C2261@localhost> References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011031141446.009f8e10@mail.pncl.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Mike, I have asked about the signal on 136.000KHz a couple of times now. I think it was Ko who said originally it consisted of three signals a fact I confirmed for myself soon after. One of the signals could easily be said to be bad morse. At other times there are a multitude of signals in the same bandwidth which just switch on alltogether and similarly disappear. I have just put an Argogram on my web site under Field Strength Calibration since this is the signal I have used to do the calibration. If anyone who has good reception of this signal could swing their loop on it I would be very grateful. At this location it is some 25 degrees North of DCF39. 73, Brian At 09:17 01/11/2001 -0000, you wrote: >> Anybody know what weak carrier on 136 000 >> exactly is? It's received same strength both here and at MB7LF 11 miles away so >> not a local. Walter G3JKV. > >The only thing previously recorded on 136.000kHz appears at first hearing to >be sending Morse, but the 'dots' and 'dashes' are seemingly random. Several >people have reported spending time trying to decode the 'Morse' before >realising it was not intelligible. > > >Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) >http://www.lf.thersgb.net 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18292 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2001 10:30:54 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Nov 2001 10:30:54 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26960 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2001 10:30:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Nov 2001 10:30:45 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15zEwK-0006wy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2001 10:19:12 +0000 Received: from dargolad.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.27]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15zEwI-0006wt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2001 10:19:11 +0000 Received: from srv17slx.esoterica.pt (srv17slx.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.47]) by dargolad.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id fA1AIS523575 for ; Thu, 1 Nov 2001 10:18:28 GMT Received: from slave-6 ([195.22.22.154]) by srv17slx.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id fA1AIRp02278 for ; Thu, 1 Nov 2001 10:18:27 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20011101101826.00923100@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 10:18:26 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: Signal on 136.0 In-reply-to: <6774128.1004606854201.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp0 5> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi John, that is 40 hz away. 73 Brian At 01:27 01/11/2001 -0800, you wrote: >Hi Walter, >Nothing listed, but there is an IMP on 136.04: >2xDCF49-DCF42 sounds like DBF39. >John, G4CNN 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19922 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2001 09:40:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Nov 2001 09:40:19 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28007 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2001 09:40:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Nov 2001 09:40:10 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15zEDc-0006q9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2001 09:33:00 +0000 Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15zEDa-0006q2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2001 09:32:59 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v5.0.0.R) for ; Thu, 01 Nov 2001 09:17:43 +0000 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 1 Nov 2001 09:17:31 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Test Sigs Message-ID: <3BE1132B.25805.C2261@localhost> In-reply-to: <5.0.2.1.2.20011031141446.009f8e10@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Anybody know what weak carrier on 136 000 > exactly is? It's received same strength both here and at MB7LF 11 miles away so > not a local. Walter G3JKV. The only thing previously recorded on 136.000kHz appears at first hearing to be sending Morse, but the 'dots' and 'dashes' are seemingly random. Several people have reported spending time trying to decode the 'Morse' before realising it was not intelligible. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22542 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2001 09:39:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Nov 2001 09:39:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24116 invoked from network); 1 Nov 2001 09:39:18 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Nov 2001 09:39:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15zE9m-0006pV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2001 09:29:02 +0000 Received: from [204.202.140.199] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15zE9i-0006pN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Nov 2001 09:28:59 +0000 Received: from gomailjtp05 ([10.212.0.165]) by mta07.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GM4006BL7LV4T@mta07.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 1 Nov 2001 01:27:31 -0800 (PST) Date: Thu, 01 Nov 2001 01:27:34 -0800 (PST) From: "John Sexton" Subject: LF: Signal on 136.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <6774128.1004606854201.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Walter, Nothing listed, but there is an IMP on 136.04: 2xDCF49-DCF42 sounds like DBF39. John, G4CNN -----Original Message----- From: "Walter Blanchard" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed Oct 31 12:14:16 PST 2001 Subject: Re: LF: Test Sigs >At 15:47 31/10/01 Wednesday, Brian wrote:>>Hi Walter, >> >>I have just finished putting up a 6m square loop to measure the field strength >>of the signal on 136.00. If your signal is the same one as mine, mine bears >>015 +/- 10 degrees from me which logically puts it in the NW corner of Spain. >>With me there is absolutely no night day variation and the field strength >>calculates out at 2uV/m if I have got all my arithmetic and physics right. >>Putting guessed values into Reg's groundwave3 programme puts the >>distance at 300km. More data on my web pages and would value your >>opinion. > >I shall get out my loop and take a bearing but it's extremely weak here. >If it's a Navy station in Spain I would have expected a far stronger signal. >Also, not aware of any LF sites in NW Spain. The only US Navy tx site >near you is Rota (Cadiz) but I don't think it does LF. > >>If you put yout signal on 135920/5 perhaps my data logger may pick it up. > >Have moved it to 135 920 but it will be a miracle if you hear it. Only 500 >mW into >ant so probably only a few puny microwatts radiated. > >Walter G3JKV. > > > > ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com