From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 383 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2001 20:40:11 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 2001 20:40:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 13060 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2001 20:40:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 2001 20:40:03 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15z20w-0005Vx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 20:31:06 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15z20v-0005Vs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 20:31:05 +0000 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (62.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.62]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f9VKUPC09790 for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 20:30:26 GMT Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011031200356.009f4620@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 20:14:16 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: Re: LF: Test Sigs In-reply-to: <3.0.5.32.20011031154749.009271d0@pop3.esoterica.pt> References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011031141446.009f8e10@mail.pncl.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 15:47 31/10/01 Wednesday, Brian wrote: >Hi Walter, > >I have just finished putting up a 6m square loop to measure the field strength >of the signal on 136.00. If your signal is the same one as mine, mine bears >015 +/- 10 degrees from me which logically puts it in the NW corner of Spain. >With me there is absolutely no night day variation and the field strength >calculates out at 2uV/m if I have got all my arithmetic and physics right. >Putting guessed values into Reg's groundwave3 programme puts the >distance at 300km. More data on my web pages and would value your >opinion. I shall get out my loop and take a bearing but it's extremely weak here. If it's a Navy station in Spain I would have expected a far stronger signal. Also, not aware of any LF sites in NW Spain. The only US Navy tx site near you is Rota (Cadiz) but I don't think it does LF. >If you put yout signal on 135920/5 perhaps my data logger may pick it up. Have moved it to 135 920 but it will be a miracle if you hear it. Only 500 mW into ant so probably only a few puny microwatts radiated. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16243 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2001 15:59:50 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 2001 15:59:50 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28085 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2001 15:57:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 2001 15:57:17 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yxbd-0004ws-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:48:41 +0000 Received: from dargolad.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.27]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yxbb-0004wk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:48:39 +0000 Received: from srv17slx.esoterica.pt (srv17slx.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.47]) by dargolad.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f9VFlw627211 for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:47:58 GMT Received: from slave-6 ([195.22.22.233]) by srv17slx.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id f9VFlrC14606 for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:47:54 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20011031154749.009271d0@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:47:49 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: Test Sigs In-reply-to: <5.0.2.1.2.20011031141446.009f8e10@mail.pncl.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Walter, I have just finished putting up a 6m square loop to measure the field strength of the signal on 136.00. If your signal is the same one as mine, mine bears 015 +/- 10 degrees from me which logically puts it in the NW corner of Spain. With me there is absolutely no night day variation and the field strength calculates out at 2uV/m if I have got all my arithmetic and physics right. Putting guessed values into Reg's groundwave3 programme puts the distance at 300km. More data on my web pages and would value your opinion. If you put yout signal on 135920/5 perhaps my data logger may pick it up. 73, Brian At 14:33 31/10/2001 +0000, you wrote: >Having sorted out QRP tx am now putting out irregular test tx on 135 >850. Auto message gives call; input power to ant; locator. Transmission >is very slow CW, 1-sec dots, 3-sec dashes. Not quite QRSS. Power input >currently 500 mW; ant is two 160m dipoles strapped together, height about >80 ft. Will not often be able to reply to calls because away doing remote >f/s measurements in car. Reports welcome. >Anybody know what weak carrier on 136 000 exactly is? It's received same >strength both here and at MB7LF 11 miles away so not a local. >Walter G3JKV. > > > > 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 572 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2001 15:17:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 2001 15:17:16 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 21831 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2001 15:14:50 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 2001 15:14:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ywxT-0004sF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:07:11 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ywxS-0004sA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:07:10 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id PAA08237; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:14:29 GMT Received: (qmail 8096 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2001 15:58:29 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 31 Oct 2001 15:58:29 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id PAA14836; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:34:19 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma014825; Wed, 31 Oct 01 15:33:55 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:09:36 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:05:37 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C60F@PDW-MAIL-R1> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Aerial conundrum.... Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:05:33 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Just a thought .. Place any small LF antenna located on very dry, low conductivity ground such as desert or non conductive rock with no trees etc nearby. With a good groundplane installed of thick copper wire out to several times the maximum dimension of the antenna, then won't the losses be only those due to the copper and loading coil ? In other words, consider the grounplane and antenna together as one entity and have no other lossy materials nearby. Could this contribute to the apparent reported sucess of the CFA when used in desert - not that the CFA was good, just that the conventional vertical it was tested against was poor. Andy G4JNT -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13488 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2001 14:43:30 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 2001 14:43:30 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24868 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2001 14:42:06 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 2001 14:42:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ywS4-0004nw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 14:34:44 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ywS3-0004nr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 14:34:44 +0000 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (249.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.249]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f9VEXxD25904 for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 14:34:00 GMT Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011031141446.009f8e10@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 14:33:27 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: Test Sigs MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Having sorted out QRP tx am now putting out irregular test tx on 135 850. Auto message gives call; input power to ant; locator. Transmission is very slow CW, 1-sec dots, 3-sec dashes. Not quite QRSS. Power input currently 500 mW; ant is two 160m dipoles strapped together, height about 80 ft. Will not often be able to reply to calls because away doing remote f/s measurements in car. Reports welcome. Anybody know what weak carrier on 136 000 exactly is? It's received same strength both here and at MB7LF 11 miles away so not a local. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17199 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2001 14:18:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 2001 14:18:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 12127 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2001 14:17:41 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 2001 14:17:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yw0A-0004kz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 14:05:54 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yw09-0004ku-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 14:05:53 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15yvzU-0003X2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 14:05:12 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15yvzU-0002X0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 14:05:12 +0000 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 14:08:38 +0000 Subject: Re: LF: Aerial conundrum.... ZL2CA's antenna In-reply-to: <002501c161fb$29d38c60$745a073e@default> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Dear Alan, Bob, LF group, Distributed circuits like the spiral top load can have many modes of resonance, so one might expect complex behaviour. I remember having a difficult time trying to predict the resonant frequency of multi-turn loops at HF for this reason. One way to isolate different effects going on with the spiral top-loaded antenna would be to temporarily connect a shorting wire to the beginning and end (and preferably the middle too) of the spiral inductor/capacitor. One would then have a straightforward top-loaded antenna of the same dimensions for comparison measurements. I suspect the effect of adding radial loading wires would be to make the spiral behave more as a lumped loading coil, since it's capacitance to ground would be a smaller fraction of the total antenna capacitance. Radial wires would bring the antenna closer to resonance at LF, reducing the overall impedance of the antenna, which would be a good thing from the efficiency point of view, always assuming they are not buried in trees, or lower than the rest of the antenna, in which case their effect might well be detrimental, since they would be the highest voltage parts of the antenna - the usual problem exists of trying to minimise the number of variables in an experiment. I'm still not clear what the configuration above ground of ZL2CA's antenna was at the time he did his impedance measurements - if it was 8m high then as it is now, the estimated loss resistance of around 12 ohms at 136k is extraordinarily low compared with other antennas of similar size. It would certainly be interesting to know, since this represents a substantial improvement in efficiency, a factor of 3 better than mine, for example. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13435 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2001 13:39:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 2001 13:39:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4837 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2001 13:36:45 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 2001 13:36:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yvMN-0004ei-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:24:47 +0000 Received: from velli.mail.fi.jippii.net ([195.197.172.114]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yvMM-0004ed-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 13:24:46 +0000 Received: from meisaku (MCMXXIV.dyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.29.124]) by velli.mail.fi.jippii.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 21E601C6F for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:24:05 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20011031152404.00894e10@pop.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: vaiski1@pop.saunalahti.fi X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 15:24:04 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: LF: OH1TN transmissions 2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, We also have been continued playing with measurements of the OH1TN ground wave field strength weekly, with Reino having tested almost all reasonable antenna configurations. These tests seem to have resulted with an improvement of around 2 dB of GW Fs here, from 18 dBuV/m to 20 dBuV/m. The stability of GW Fs continues to vary from day to day, even from hour to hour with some time periods being hopeless for this accuracy (+-1/2 dB) Rxin measurements. My physical condx are just and just OK for this, hi... Best regards to LF gang de Vaino, OH2LX ----------- email dated 22 October 2001: ------------- A short summary of OH1TN signal F-s measurements: Ground distance = 152 km, but the 'loose' soil above the base rock = mostly few metres only; which no doubt affects at least low freq signals. Daytime ground wave F-s during 2000 & 2001 = 18 dB(uV/m). No notable changes due to antenna config alterations. During October 2001 daytime F-s variation up to 5 dB observed e.g. on 9th & 10th but during most days variation can be less than 1/2 dB. The observed absolute Min & Max during evening and nite: Min = 5 dB(uV/m), Max = 24 dB(uV/m) The greatest observed variation during the dark hours: 8 dB during less than ten minutes. My best regards to all Vaino, OH2LX PS MANY THANKS for the special postcard sent to me by the LF-group from the Windsor HFC 2001 !! |---------------------------------------------------------| | V.K.Lehtoranta ¤ 60N33.6 024E58.7 KP20LN74 | | P.O.Box 50 ¤ Telephone: +358-9-4173965 | | FIN-05401, Jokela ¤ Telefax: +358-9-4173961 | | Finland ¤ email: vaiski@dlc.fi | |---------------------------------------------------------| From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29212 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2001 11:53:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 2001 11:53:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 21566 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2001 11:52:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 2001 11:52:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ytmi-0004Pt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 11:43:52 +0000 Received: from cmailenv3.svr.pol.co.uk ([213.218.77.55]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ytmh-0004Po-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 11:43:51 +0000 Received: from [62.21.166.236] (helo=w8k3f0) by cmailENV3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15ytm1-000128-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 11:43:10 +0000 Message-ID: <006501c16202$e2ac8be0$3884153e@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20011031101758.2d2f5314@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: Re: LF: QRSS Transmissions Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 12:42:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To All from PA0SE I gave "O" three times in hand-sent morse code to make sure it was read correctly; just as it is usual to sent an RST report more than once. 73, Dick, PA0SE ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- Van: Rik Strobbe Aan: Verzonden: woensdag 31 oktober 2001 10:17 Onderwerp: Re: LF: QRSS Transmissions > >Dick gave me an OOO report > > Hello group, > > it seems to me that there is still some misunderstanding about the report > system for QRSS : it is just either O, M or T where > O = 100% copy > M = less than 100% copy but sufficient for a QSO > T = signal copied but unsufficient for a QSO > > It doen't matter wether someone sents O or OO or OOO etc... the report is > just O and is repeated a few time to ensure that it is copied correct. > If you already got an O report from your QSO partner it is sufficient to > send his report once or twice (so O or OO), sending it 3 times is just a > waste of time unless you have indications that conditions may change rapidly. > > 73, Rik ON7YD > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11236 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2001 11:13:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 2001 11:13:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 14515 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2001 11:11:22 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 2001 11:11:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yt07-0004Ho-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:53:39 +0000 Received: from siaag2ae.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.135]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yt06-0004Hj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:53:38 +0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2ae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id FAA14947 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 05:52:22 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 05:51:33 -0500 From: "Holger 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: Re: LF: QRSS Transmissions To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200110310551_MC3-E545-AB6A@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik, ON7YD wrote: >O = 100% copy >M = less than 100% copy but sufficient for a QSO >T = signal copied but unsufficient for a QSO< ... some two years ago, after I just had improved my antenna system, I got a "CH" report (old timers may recall, there used to be special Morse code signs for special letters, for example "CH" equals to four dashes = "----") from Peter, DF3LP in Kiel. He wanted to express at this time that he was able to perfectly copy my signal and that my signal was better than just an "O" (he could actually hear me). I don't know, however, if this is something we should make standard, it might add to the confusion ... Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9427 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2001 11:06:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 2001 11:06:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 10776 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2001 11:05:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 2001 11:05:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yt6s-0004Iu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 11:00:38 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yt6r-0004Ip-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 11:00:37 +0000 Received: from [62.7.90.116] (helo=default) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15yt68-0006VF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:59:52 +0000 Message-ID: <002501c161fb$29d38c60$745a073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Aerial conundrum.... Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:55:54 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, Finbar and I have been playing making some measurements on some different simple aerials, as you may gather from the data sent to Jim on ground loss v frequency. Finbar has just errected a simple 'lowfer' type aerial. It consists of a 20 foot (6m) vertical bamboo with a horizontal cross on the top made of 2 x 8 (2.6m) foot canes, to support the capacity hat. The idea is not new and Finbar says he saw it in Pat Hawker's Tech Topics some time ago as an idea for local BC station aerials in VE. The thing is that instead of the usual 'spokes-and-rim' wheel style capacity hat, this design winds a spiral out from the centre. Finbar used 169 feet (56m) of wire ti make the spiral. The 'drop' wire to the measuring RF bridge was 30 feet (9m) long. I have managed to model the terminal impedance v frequency for the other aerials we have tried with a simple L-C-R series circuit, and the measurements have tied up well with the calculations. The above design does not. The first surprising point (to me anyway) was that the aerial's natural resonance was at 1750kHz !! Note that is without any coils added. When one measure a simple end fed wire with the same natural resonant frequency , the resistance drops and the capacity starts to rise as the frequency starts to approach the resonance. (above about 500-600kHz in this case) This is due to the inductive reactance cancelling out some of the capacative reactance as Jim explained, leaving a lower overall reactance and thus a higher measured capacity. The capacity of the the above design does not rise as rapidly as a simple series LCR circuit would predict, and the inductive component is about twice that of a inv 'L' at the same natural resonance. (56uH compared with 31uH for a inv 'L' wire) My first thought is that we have a limiting case of 'inductive top loading' here. In which case the spiral 'top hat' may be a useful construction for those with limited real estate. No only does it substantially load the aerial, but presumably it has the same advanageous effects found by Mike G3XDV and Rik ON7YD of reducing 'environmental' losses. The downside was that the total capacity of the aerial was still only 149 pF which would mean a substantial coil to resonate it at 136kHz. (but maybe no worse than a vertical with a 'spoke-and-ring' hat.) What does occur to me is that this may be a very good way of making a reasonable resonant Top-Band aerial in a limited space. (it will also need anti-corona treatment on the end of the spiral) We have probably been 'reinventing wheels' .....but it is great fun.....and we would be interested in any comments on the format, and what should the equivalent circuit look like? Would it be usefull to add further (3 or 4) radial capacity loading wires (say 5m) to the outer turn, pulled out away from the top and sloping slightly to ground in 'guys'?? Cheers de Alan G3NYK and Finbar EI0CF alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20225 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2001 10:45:07 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 2001 10:45:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 19964 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2001 10:44:57 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 2001 10:44:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ysl8-0004FL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:38:10 +0000 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ysl7-0004FG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:38:09 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA05734 for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 11:37:27 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20011031113528.30c72ac0@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 11:35:28 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: More on Antenna Loss In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Jim & group, >G3NYK (6m high, 30m long inv. L): Rloss = 4733/f^0.86 (for points >below 600kHz only) > >M0BMU(8m high, 40m long inv. L): Rloss = 1550/f^0.75 > >ZL2CA(Don't know, but must be quite big!): Rloss = 142/f^0.50 While doing research for my LF antenna webpage I came across a formula the gave the pentration depth of an E-field in the soil as : D = 509/(S^0.5*F^0.5) where D = depth in m, S = soil conductiviy in S/m and F = frequency in Hz Assuming the the ground loss is proportional to the distance 'traveled' through the soil the results of Bob (ZL2CA) seemed really a textbook case compared to the measurements of Jim (MBMU) and Alan (G3NYK), so I wonder if the 2 last do suffer more from additional losses (buildings and greenery close to the antenna) compared to Bob ? BTW : The emperical equations are a bit dependent on the frequency range you take. For Jim's measurements I get R = 1555*F^-0.75 for the whole range but then I took only the points between 100 and 300 kHz (to have the same range as Bob) and got R = 1830*F^-0.79. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29129 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2001 10:43:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 2001 10:43:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17399 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2001 10:42:05 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 2001 10:42:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yscj-0004EE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:29:29 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ysci-0004E9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:29:28 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15ysc2-0004v4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:28:46 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15ysc1-0004SW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:28:45 +0000 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:32:12 +0000 Subject: Re: LF: Multi-layer loading coils In-reply-to: <000a01c16187$aec96d00$49c928c3@ericadodd> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Dear Peter, LF group, I also got one of the Decca loading coils - mine was from the scrap pile at Puckeridge, and was of the old type with the difficult-to- solder litz and the former solvent glued together, and so not possible to dismantle without breaking many parts. Mine had 12 wires in parallel and L of a few hundred uH, so not very good for my antenna, which needs about 4mH to resonate on 136k. In the end, I just used the wire from the Decca coil and scrapped the rest. As a former, I found a "sectional manhole" made by Osma was very suitable. This is a brown PVC cylinder about 500mm diameter and 350mm long, with external ribs. It is meant to form the walls of manholes for drains, and several sections can be slotted together for a bigger former if needed. About 6 turns of the Decca litz wire fit between each pair of ribs, forming a winding 3 layers deep by 2 long. about 80 or so turns altogether gave me the required inductance, which has a Q of about 700. I tried several experiments and found that in all practical cases, single layer windings gave higher Q than multi-layer ones, and have the advantage that there is the maximum seperation between the two ends, which may have upwards of 20kV between them when running 1.2kW. However, a single layer coil using the thick Decca wire would have been very large - about 2 or 3 metres long using the sectional manholes - so the configuration above, which is effectively 14 x 6 turn windings in series, each 3 deep, is a reasonable compromise between Q, L, and size, and keeps the voltage between adjacent turns below 1kV if wound carefully. This has been working happily for the last year or so. I am using a second sectional manhole wound with more turns of smaller, ordinary stranded wire for 73k, which stacks on top of the 136k loading coil. As others have pointed out in the past, big loading coils only give minor improvements in antenna efficiency - but the main reason for having one is so that it does not melt, catch fire, etc when running high power. This one barely gets warm at the 1.2kW level. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10157 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2001 09:47:31 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 2001 09:47:31 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17653 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2001 09:45:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 2001 09:45:00 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yro0-00046z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:37:04 +0000 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yrnz-00046u-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:37:03 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA58702 for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:36:21 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20011031103423.2d2f75ac@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:34:23 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Multi-layer loading coils In-reply-to: <15yjWu-0FxNy4C@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> References: <000a01c16187$aec96d00$49c928c3@ericadodd> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Ha-Jo, I believe in mult-layer versus single-layer coils there are 2 factors having an opposite effect : 1. A multi-layer coil needs less wire for the same inductance = less copper losses 2. A multi-layer coil will suffer more from the proximity effect (the Q of coil is degraded by the proximity of the turns to each other, in a single layer coil each turn has on 2 'neighbour' turns, in a multi-layer coil this can be up to 8 'neighbour' turns) Since in a single layer coil the proximity effeect can be minimized by spacing the turns (spacing = wire diameter seems a good compromize) I assume that in a multi-layer coil Q can be improved by spacing the layers usng a low loss dielectric material. Further I believe to have read somewhere that higher Q's can be achieved by winding a multi-layer coil in 'chambers'. 73, Rik ON7YD At 01:46 31/10/01 +0100, you wrote: >Dear all, > >concerning multi versus single layer coils I have been informed by DJ2EY who >employs two coils of different diameter as a variometer that the Q of the total >coil is less when the smaller coil is fully immersed into the greater one. It >seems that the metal of the inner coil increases the loss of the outer coil (and >possibly vice versa). > >Therefore when a high Q is needed, a single layer coil would be the better >solution. > >HW? > >73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16353 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2001 09:27:16 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 2001 09:27:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27613 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2001 09:27:02 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 2001 09:27:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yrY7-00045A-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:20:39 +0000 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yrY6-000455-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:20:38 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA90572 for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:19:57 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20011031101758.2d2f5314@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 10:17:58 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: QRSS Transmissions In-reply-to: <1635154.1004467399160.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp0 5> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >Dick gave me an OOO report Hello group, it seems to me that there is still some misunderstanding about the report system for QRSS : it is just either O, M or T where O = 100% copy M = less than 100% copy but sufficient for a QSO T = signal copied but unsufficient for a QSO It doen't matter wether someone sents O or OO or OOO etc... the report is just O and is repeated a few time to ensure that it is copied correct. If you already got an O report from your QSO partner it is sufficient to send his report once or twice (so O or OO), sending it 3 times is just a waste of time unless you have indications that conditions may change rapidly. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17673 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2001 09:21:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 2001 09:21:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 130 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2001 09:20:38 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 2001 09:20:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yrQC-000441-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:12:28 +0000 Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yrQA-00043v-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 09:12:26 +0000 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.8.) id l.d1.eb6f0be (4461) for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 04:11:19 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 04:11:19 EST Subject: Re: LF: Multi-layer loading coils To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 10504 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Ha-Jo and LF group,


> It seems that the metal of the inner coil increases the loss
> of the outer coil (and possibly vice versa).

Exactly that's what I found in own experiments.

By "forcing" the magnetic field through any kind of metal, you increase the losses.
For the same reason, long coils shouldn't be wound too closely, which is especially true when using enameled copper wire. Some of the mag field lines don't run through the full length of the coil, but 'escape' to the  sides. Forcing them through the very thin gap between the copper seems to cause additional loss. Using a calculation program for single-layer coils (like COILS.EXE from an old ARRL handbook) you can see the effect, and it can be verified in practice.

73,  Wolf   DL4YHF.


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26146 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2001 00:54:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 2001 00:54:10 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 25322 invoked from network); 31 Oct 2001 00:52:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Oct 2001 00:52:53 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yjXo-0003FO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 00:47:48 +0000 Received: from mailout02.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.17] helo=mailout02.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yjXn-0003FJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 00:47:47 +0000 Received: from fwd05.sul.t-online.de by mailout02.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 15yjWy-0004vb-03; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 01:46:56 +0100 Received: from (087321565-0001@[217.2.65.52]) by fwd05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 15yjWu-0FxNy4C; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 01:46:52 +0100 From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000a01c16187$aec96d00$49c928c3@ericadodd> Subject: Re: LF: Multi-layer loading coils X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 01:46:52 +0100 Message-ID: <15yjWu-0FxNy4C@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all, concerning multi versus single layer coils I have been informed by DJ2EY who employs two coils of different diameter as a variometer that the Q of the total coil is less when the smaller coil is fully immersed into the greater one. It seems that the metal of the inner coil increases the loss of the outer coil (and possibly vice versa). Therefore when a high Q is needed, a single layer coil would be the better solution. HW? 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB g3ldo schrieb: > Some time ago I obtained a Decca loading coil on one of my visits to the > Crawley radio club. The Decca coil on page 64 of the LF Handbook illustrates > the general construction of one of these coils and the Decca loading and > matching system is shown on page 13. The Decca system used five transmitters > multiplexed (if this is the right word) into a single transmitting antenna > so the coils are quite complex, comprising several separate windings wound > using a low capacity basket > weave on the same former. > > The purpose of this exercise was to see if this coil might be suitable for > amateur LF. For the coil to be of any use it would have to be completely > rebuilt. > > There seems to be two different types of construction. The one shown on page > 84 of the LF book is an older type, which uses Perspex formers and are fixed > in place using an adhesive. This means that it is very difficult to > dismantle without damage. Furthermore the Litz wire is difficult solder - > you have to use methods as described on Page 84. > The later coils use a former ribs made of plastic using a sort of Lego > construction, which is held in place by the wire itself. Furthermore, the > Litz can be soldered by just dipping the end into a solder pot (after first > removing the plastic outer insulation). > > The coil was easily dismantled in an afternoon and a finisher up with a > large plastic box of Lego bits, about 25kg of Litz and a basic coil former > comprising a hard plastic cylinder 449mm in diameter and 220mm long. > > As you can see from the photo, the coil will have to be multi-layered. Is > there any performance penalty in using such a method of construction > compared with using the straight single layered coil?. One problem that > occurs to me is the potential gradient across the coil but I know how to > avoid any difficulties in this regard. > > I wish to thank Dick, Rick and Andy for multi-layer coil formula. At the > moment I think that empirical experimenting is going to be the only way of > obtaining any useful information. Has anyone else got a Decca coil and have > they tried using it? > > Regards, > Peter, G3LDO > > e-mail > > Web > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9312 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2001 21:20:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Oct 2001 21:20:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 792 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2001 21:17:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Oct 2001 21:17:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ygBf-0002pH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 21:12:43 +0000 Received: from chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net ([212.135.1.67]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ygBd-0002pB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 21:12:41 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-6-73.easynet.co.uk [195.40.201.73]) by chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id AFE691D56B9 for ; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 21:11:58 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000a01c16187$aec96d00$49c928c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Multi-layer loading coils Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 21:12:19 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Some time ago I obtained a Decca loading coil on one of my visits to the Crawley radio club. The Decca coil on page 64 of the LF Handbook illustrates the general construction of one of these coils and the Decca loading and matching system is shown on page 13. The Decca system used five transmitters multiplexed (if this is the right word) into a single transmitting antenna so the coils are quite complex, comprising several separate windings wound using a low capacity basket weave on the same former. The purpose of this exercise was to see if this coil might be suitable for amateur LF. For the coil to be of any use it would have to be completely rebuilt. There seems to be two different types of construction. The one shown on page 84 of the LF book is an older type, which uses Perspex formers and are fixed in place using an adhesive. This means that it is very difficult to dismantle without damage. Furthermore the Litz wire is difficult solder - you have to use methods as described on Page 84. The later coils use a former ribs made of plastic using a sort of Lego construction, which is held in place by the wire itself. Furthermore, the Litz can be soldered by just dipping the end into a solder pot (after first removing the plastic outer insulation). The coil was easily dismantled in an afternoon and a finisher up with a large plastic box of Lego bits, about 25kg of Litz and a basic coil former comprising a hard plastic cylinder 449mm in diameter and 220mm long. As you can see from the photo, the coil will have to be multi-layered. Is there any performance penalty in using such a method of construction compared with using the straight single layered coil?. One problem that occurs to me is the potential gradient across the coil but I know how to avoid any difficulties in this regard. I wish to thank Dick, Rick and Andy for multi-layer coil formula. At the moment I think that empirical experimenting is going to be the only way of obtaining any useful information. Has anyone else got a Decca coil and have they tried using it? Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15546 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2001 18:54:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Oct 2001 18:54:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10499 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2001 18:51:30 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Oct 2001 18:51:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ydsJ-0002Z1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 18:44:35 +0000 Received: from [204.202.140.199] (helo=gomailmta-bc.seamail.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ydsI-0002Yw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 18:44:34 +0000 Received: from gomailjtp05 ([10.212.0.165]) by mta07.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GM100HFP805WG@mta07.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 10:43:17 -0800 (PST) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 10:43:19 -0800 (PST) From: "John Sexton" Subject: LF: QRSS Transmissions To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <1635154.1004467399160.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, Had a very enjoyable cross QSO with Dick, PA0SE, this morning, with me sending 3 second dot QRSS and Dick sending CW at about 4 or 5 wpm. Is this a first for this type of QSO? Dick gave me an OOO report, which means that getting rid of the water in the loading coil did help, hi! There seem to be opportunities for QRSS of intermediate speeds of around 1 or 2 wpm for QRP and intermediate distance QSOs. I am continuing to send QRSS every weekday on 137.7 from 16.00 to 19.00 UTC with a dot-length of 10 seconds. Any requests for scheds at different speeds or times are welcome. 73, John, G4CNN ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25595 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2001 18:38:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Oct 2001 18:38:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 26012 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2001 18:35:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Oct 2001 18:35:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ydft-0002X6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 18:31:45 +0000 Received: from 210-86-15-138.ipnets.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.138] helo=mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ydfs-0002X1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 18:31:44 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.181.107]) by mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20011030182956.KQAO15911.mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Wed, 31 Oct 2001 07:29:56 +1300 Message-ID: <002d01c16171$32226c40$6bb51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: More on Antenna Loss Date: Wed, 31 Oct 2001 07:30:02 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jim and LF readers, Thanks for further analysis and plotting of results. My LF antenna is not very big, and has shrunk in capacitance since I did those impedance runs. I decided to "borrow" the top of a wooden pole on the street frontage to support the outer limit of my top loading, but some time later I received a "Dear John" letter from the telecommunications company, and in short I removed my wires .... I do have quite a good earth mat of buried copper wire, with a near radial layout with respect to the feedpoint of the vertical, with 14 or 15 wires. I installed the earth system in the 1980's when I had interests in working DX on 80 and 160 metres, and I did get 59 SSB exchanges with Europe. I have since added driven pipes at selected outer ends of radial wires to assist LF currents to migrate beyond the boundary of my suburban property. So I attribute my "lower loss" to the earth system rather than the wires above ground. However, my ground is still in "power factor territory" compared to that assumed in broadcast antenna text books. My top loaded vertical currently has an 8 metre upwire, but I intend to add 5 metres or so with a fibreglass windsurfer mast. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11167 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2001 18:27:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Oct 2001 18:27:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 17463 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2001 18:26:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Oct 2001 18:26:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ydWR-0002W7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 18:21:59 +0000 Received: from cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ydWP-0002W2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 18:21:57 +0000 Received: from modem-116.bauglir.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.136.116] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15ydVk-0006cZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 18:21:16 +0000 Message-ID: <000d01c1616f$96ca77c0$7488883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re Antenna Loss Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 18:19:26 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jim and Bob,very interested in your measurments and pleased that you have managed to fit some real theory to my empirical results (footprints etc). I wonder now wether there is a "law of diminishing return "ie how much top loading is optimum ? Guess I shall have to go out and try it Hi ! 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13727 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2001 16:43:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Oct 2001 16:43:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6103 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2001 16:42:48 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Oct 2001 16:42:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ybnq-0002G8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 16:31:50 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ybnl-0002G0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 16:31:45 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15ybn3-0000qf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 16:31:01 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15ybmy-0006lX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 16:30:56 +0000 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 16:34:21 +0000 X-Total-Enclosures: 1 X-Enclosure-Info: DOS,"rloss2.jpg",,,,JPEG-image Subject: LF: More on Antenna Loss X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------030702070405070505080505" MIME-Version: 1.0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030702070405070505080505 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear LF Group, Thanks to those to commented on the antenna loss measurements. I added the data from ZL2CA, and also some provided by G3NYK to the graph of results from my own antenna (see attachment). The empirical formulas for the loss resistance of the 3 antennas work out to: G3NYK (6m high, 30m long inv. L): Rloss = 4733/f^0.86 (for points below 600kHz only) M0BMU(8m high, 40m long inv. L): Rloss = 1550/f^0.75 ZL2CA(Don't know, but must be quite big!): Rloss = 142/f^0.50 So as the antennas get bigger, the loss resistance gets lower and falls off more slowly with increasing frequency. This is reasonable compared with big commercial antennas, which have very low Rloss (a few ohms or less) which rises with increasing frequency. The fact that loss resistance decreases as the antenna gets higher is consistent with the majority of loss occuring in the ground under the antenna - for a given antenna voltage, as the antenna gets higher, the E field at ground level will get lower, reducing the dielectric loss in the ground. This also explains why the (much higher) commercial antennas are not as significantly affected by this type of loss. It also ties up with G3AQC's "footprint" idea - increasing the area covered by top loading will also reduce the field at ground level, and result in lower losses. It seems most people do not use a loading coil to resonate the antenna whilst measuring the loss resistance using bridge methods; the reasons I did were: - The loading coil filters out most of the signal from the broadcast stations near my QTH - otherwise, these can put a watt or two into the unfortunate bridge detector, even though the antenna is not resonant. -Having the antenna resonant means you are measuring just the resistance, rather than the resistance riding on a much larger capacitive reactance. This means that, for a given amount of resistance unbalance, the voltage at the bridge detector will be much higher, and so the SNR at the null will be better. -Likewise, the effect of imperfect balance in the bridge transformer is less important when the antenna is resonant and purely resistive. This is especially so for errors in the phase between the voltages across the two bridge transformer windings, which will effectively transform part of the reactance into resistance. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU -------------- Enclosure number 1 ---------------- * This message contains the file 'rloss2.jpg', which has been * uuencoded. 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g6+utpusnY5JC7wI8G3sgJBJRyKnFDmGwoElW4lKe/2isedpPTdzmOTJ+n7VLlOY3vPwm3Fq wABlRGTgAD/CtigV5vMgx7dozwnRYrfDZRxyAVFRJNuYKlKUclSiSSVEkkkkkk16RXGLVBxc EqjNrRcV75aHO2l48NLZyk5GNiEjHdy/maCL8I/+/P8Ampef/LVQTP2h2b1VP+9iV0RdL2mL x8svyuO0phfT5bsv3NXvkDjKVhKsDcBgK2jOcDH0tun7fapCpDHS3XygoDkua9JUhJIJCS6t RSCQkkJxnanOcDAalKUoFKUoFKUoPm+ymTHdYWXAhxBQotuKQoAjHJSSCk/zBBHmrz9hhmL4 P2o8dptlhrVAQ222kJShIvOAAByAA5Yr0Ss82S3G2PW4x/0V11b6khagQ4twulaVZylW8lQI IKTgjGBgI/U3+6e4f9Hv/Enaam/3T3D/AKPf+JO1UM6XtLMOTGLL7yZG3iOyJbrz3ZOUYdWo rTtVlScKG1RKhgkmjOl7SzDkxiy+8mRt4jsiW6892TlGHVqK07VZUnChtUSoYJJoOeH+0O8+ qoH3suqCs+2WWFaOKYqX1OO4C3pMlyQ4oDOE73FKVtGVEJzgFSiBknOhQKUpQKUpQKUpQKUp QKUpQKUpQf/Z --------------030702070405070505080505-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4947 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2001 09:08:34 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Oct 2001 09:08:34 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 2772 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2001 09:08:18 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Oct 2001 09:08:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yUoA-0001Ka-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 09:03:42 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yUo9-0001KV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 09:03:41 +0000 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (23.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.23]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f9U931k03773 for ; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 09:03:01 GMT Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011030075422.00a1a1e0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 09:01:33 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: coil former MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Looking around my local builders' merchants (Halls) for something to use for a loading coil former I came across what is described in their catalogue as a "plasterers' bucket" 460 mm (18 ins) tall, 330 mm (13 ins) wide at the top tapering to 280 mm(11 ins). It is very strong (I can stand on it), and far more rigid than other plastic buckets. It's made of a translucent whitish thermoplastic about 5 mm thick and putting a piece in the microwave for 15 mins didn't even make it warm. It melts with a soldering iron in exactly the same way as the polyethylene in coax cable and has the same slightly greasy feel. Also considerably harder than PVC. So is it polyethylene? It cost 12 pounds as against 1.50 for the usual cheap plastic bucket so maybe that's a clue. I've wound it with 4mm Litz to make a variometer and am using it with the QRP rig. Measured Q is over 500 using only plain single-layer winding. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7603 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2001 08:42:25 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Oct 2001 08:42:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 13509 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2001 08:42:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Oct 2001 08:42:14 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yUPW-0001FX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 08:38:14 +0000 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yUPU-0001FR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 08:38:12 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA1212576 for ; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 09:37:29 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20011030093531.2cb76306@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 09:35:31 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Decca Coils In-reply-to: <002501c160d0$873758e0$a1ca28c3@ericadodd> References: <2614258.1004295195891.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> <3.0.1.16.20011029161314.30eff79c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 23:21 29/10/01 -0000, you wrote: >Hi Rik > >> L = inductance (nH) >> N = windings >> D = average coil diameter (cm) >> H = coil length (cm) >> C = thickness of the wirelayers (all together, in cm) >> K = correction factor depending on H/C ratio : >> L/C K >> 2 0.10 >> 3 0.15 >> 5 0.23 >> 10 0.27 >> 15 0.30 >> 20 0.31 >> 30 0.32 >> >> 2. For 'fat' coils (H<=D) : L = 78*L^2*D/(3*D+9*H+10*C) > >I will use the 'fat' coil formula because with my coil D = 60cm and H = >18.2cm > >I don't understand the L^2 in the formula because L is what I am trying to >find. Hello Peter, My mistake, it should be N^2 instead so : L = 78*N^2*D/(3*D+9*H+10*C) where L = inductance (nH) N = number of turns D = average coil diameter (cm) H = coil length (cm) C = thickness of all the wirelayers (cm) BTW : according to this book (Taschenbuch der Hochfrequenztechnik) a 'fat' coil is more sensible to the enviorement than a slim coil 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25659 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2001 08:21:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Oct 2001 08:21:05 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 564 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2001 08:18:38 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Oct 2001 08:18:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yU2S-0001Be-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 08:14:24 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yU2Q-0001BZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 08:14:22 +0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id IAA03872; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 08:21:36 GMT Received: (qmail 25314 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2001 09:05:40 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 30 Oct 2001 09:05:40 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id IAA09355; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 08:41:38 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma009352; Tue, 30 Oct 01 08:41:23 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 08:16:52 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 08:12:59 -0000 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C607@PDW-MAIL-R1> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Decca Coils Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 08:12:57 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > > 2. For 'fat' coils (H<=D) : L = 78*L^2*D/(3*D+9*H+10*C) > > I will use the 'fat' coil formula because with my coil D = > 60cm and H = > 18.2cm > > I don't understand the L^2 in the formula because L is what I > am trying to > find. > A misprint for N, which doesn't appear anywhere in the formula, but should appear as N^2 on the top line ? Andy 'JNT -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1956 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2001 06:57:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Oct 2001 06:57:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 28367 invoked from network); 30 Oct 2001 06:57:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Oct 2001 06:57:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ySkZ-00011Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 06:51:51 +0000 Received: from 210-86-15-130.ipnets.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.130] helo=mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ySkX-00011Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 06:51:49 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.178.20]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20011030065031.POD5089.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Tue, 30 Oct 2001 19:50:31 +1300 Message-ID: <004601c1610f$7b7121a0$22b51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: Antenna Loss Measurements Date: Tue, 30 Oct 2001 19:52:01 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jim M0BMU, Thanks for publishing the impedance measurements on your LF antenna. You have done a more thorough job, and over a wider band, than I did some years back on my LF antenna, but your findings are very similar to what I found. Firstly, I found that resistance increased with decreasing frequency. I used an RC bridge directly on the antenna feedpoint (no loading coil). My results are shown in a table in the ARRL Antenna Book, which are: Frequency Resistance Capacitance 100 kHz 14 ohms 790 pF 165 11 800 190 10 805 250 9 810 300 8 815 The increase in capacitance with frequency is not unexpected, as transmission line theory for a monopole predicts a cotangent relationship. Some stray capacitance would be in parallel around the feedpoint for a practical antenna (with loading coil and possibly some horizontal component to connections or up-wire). In another experiment, I checked the impedance of each part of my top loaded vertical, starting with the up-wire, then with each side of the top loading alone, then the whole system. I tested at one frequency only. The impedance results were difficult to interpret, but once I converted them to admittance, there was a clear result that connecting top loading was very similar to connecting lossy capacitors in parallel. More top loading, covering a fresh ground area, gives lower net resistance. Regarding your comment: > ..... I think this offers support for > the theory that the losses in amateur LF antennas are normally > dominated by dielectric losses. ... is supported by me. I believe it applies even for amateur antennas in fairly clear environments. Moist soil is a lossy dielectric, always has been, and always will be. Antenna tuning also depends on the soil dielectric factors, and changes somewhat with recent rainfall and seasons. Trees and buildings in the near field could also be considered to be lossy dielectric factors. Most of the textbook information on "broadcast verticals" is for a virtual copper plated ground plane (hundreds of radials, and quite long) and is definitely not typical of amateur LF antennas. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4895 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2001 23:27:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Oct 2001 23:27:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 15946 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2001 23:25:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Oct 2001 23:25:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yLio-0000Aj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 23:21:34 +0000 Received: from chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net ([212.135.1.67]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yLin-0000Ae-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 23:21:33 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-6-8.easynet.co.uk [195.40.201.8]) by chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 87D8B1D59C9 for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 23:20:52 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <002501c160d0$873758e0$a1ca28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <2614258.1004295195891.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> <3.0.1.16.20011029161314.30eff79c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: Re: LF: Decca Coils Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 23:21:22 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Rik > L = inductance (nH) > N = windings > D = average coil diameter (cm) > H = coil length (cm) > C = thickness of the wirelayers (all together, in cm) > K = correction factor depending on H/C ratio : > L/C K > 2 0.10 > 3 0.15 > 5 0.23 > 10 0.27 > 15 0.30 > 20 0.31 > 30 0.32 > > 2. For 'fat' coils (H<=D) : L = 78*L^2*D/(3*D+9*H+10*C) I will use the 'fat' coil formula because with my coil D = 60cm and H = 18.2cm I don't understand the L^2 in the formula because L is what I am trying to find. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28649 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2001 18:36:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Oct 2001 18:36:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 5049 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2001 18:34:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Oct 2001 18:34:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yH9G-00084T-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 18:28:34 +0000 Received: from mail4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.211]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yH9F-00084O-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 18:28:33 +0000 Received: from modem-41.arthad.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.128.41] helo=lvm) by mail4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15yH8Y-0001WL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 18:27:51 +0000 Message-ID: <000101c160a8$6fdfe180$2980883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: E mail access and Beacon Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 18:34:27 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I am having trouble collecting mail, so I will not Beacon now until have sorted out problems.Will advise when all OK. Condx not too good anyway. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29021 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2001 16:43:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Oct 2001 16:43:33 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5940 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2001 16:41:04 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Oct 2001 16:41:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yFJD-0007lj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 16:30:43 +0000 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yFJ8-0007le-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 16:30:39 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15yFIS-0001zO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 16:29:56 +0000 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15yFIS-0007Hq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 16:29:56 +0000 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 16:33:19 +0000 X-Total-Enclosures: 1 X-Enclosure-Info: DOS,"rloss.jpg",,,,JPEG-image Subject: LF: Antenna Loss Measurements X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------080701010906070002050409" MIME-Version: 1.0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080701010906070002050409 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear LF group, To try and gain a bit more insight on the functioning of small LF antennas, I measured the loss resistance of my inverted L (8m high, 40m long) over a range of about 9kHz to 553kHz. I used the SPM-3 selective voltmeter and PS-3 tracking generator in conjunction with the SFZ-1 impedance bridge attachment and a decade resistor box to measure the resistance of the antenna resonated at different frequencies using various series loading coils. I found for various reasons that measuring the impedance of the tuned antenna worked much better than trying to balance the resistance and capacitance of the un-tuned antenna with the bridge; however, the resistance of the loading coil was a significant fraction of the total resistance, and to determine the loss resistance of the coils I repeated the measurements with the antenna disconnected and replaced with a calibrated air-variable capacitor adjusted for resonance at the same frequency. This also gave a measurement of the antenna capacitance. The results are listed below in the order f, kHz;R(loss), ohms; C(ant), pF: 9.16, 295, 336.4; 10.4, 270, 336.4; 12.4, 235, 336.6; 14.4, 219, 337; 17.3, 183, 336.5; 19.9, 170, 336.6; 24.0, 145, 336.4; 27.4, 129, 336.3; 31.9, 113, 336; 36.8, 103, 336.4; 41.8, 93, 336.4; 52.0, 81.5, 336.6; 60.9, 69.5, 336.6; 68.9, 71, 336.8; 83.3, 61, 337.6; 97.1, 53.5, 338.4; 125.7, 38.5, 341.3; 142, 35, 341.3; 175, 31.5, 341.8; 217.7, 27, 344.3; 296.1, 21, 348.2; 493.4, 15.5, 370.1; 553.9, 15, 382.4; I can e-mail the results as a spreadsheet if anyone would like them A graph of loss resistance vs. frequency (see attachment for one on log axes) shows Rloss is very roughly inversely proportional to frequency. The curve-fitting function of the spreadsheet software produced the line linking the points - this gives the formula: Rloss(ohms) = 1550 x 1/(f, kHz)^0.75 I think the slight kinks in the graph are due to using different loading coils with different distributed capacitance to ground. I found the capacitance of my TX loading coils to ground was about 30pF, so a significant fraction of the antenna capacitance is that of the loading coil, and changing the voltage distribution on the loading coil will presumably alter the antenna loss resistance a bit. The antenna handbooks say that the antenna losses of typical (commercial) LF antennas increase with frequency, while this one does just the opposite. Other people have found the same thing comparing 136k and 73k operation. I think this offers support for the theory that the losses in amateur LF antennas are normally dominated by dielectric losses. If the antenna was fed with a constant current I, the voltage on the ant is close to V = I x Xc, where Xc is the capacitive reactance, since the resistance is much smaller than the reactance. Therefore V will be proportional to Xc, which in turn is proportional to 1/f. The dielectric losses increase roughly proportionaly to the frequency, but are also proportional to V^2, and V decreases with frequency. So overall, if all the resistance was due to dielectric loss, the loss resistance would be proportional to 1/f. however, there are some additional losses due to ground resistance, skin effect and so on, which increase with frequency, leading to the overall 1/(f^3/4) dependence. The increasing capacitance at high frequencies is due to the distributed inductance of the antenna wire; the inductive reactance partially cancels the capacitive reactance, leading to a higher effective capacitance (lower reactance) at higher frequency, as the antenna gets nearer to it's resonant frequency. It would be nice to try measuring some different antennas, to see if the same effects occur generally - unfortunately, I only have the one antenna at the moment! I would not be suprised if the loss resistance was a funtion of a slightly different power of f with different antenna geometries and environments. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU -------------- Enclosure number 1 ---------------- * This message contains the file 'rloss.jpg', which has been * uuencoded. 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kiaiuc50iRo10qta71kXsVU/uRje+AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAH//Z --------------080701010906070002050409 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; name="ATT10100.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="ATT10100.txt" --------------080701010906070002050409-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10391 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2001 15:26:06 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Oct 2001 15:26:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18396 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2001 15:23:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Oct 2001 15:23:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yE8o-0007YN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 15:15:54 +0000 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yE8n-0007YI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 15:15:53 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA867086 for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 16:15:10 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20011029161314.30eff79c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 16:13:14 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Decca Coils In-reply-to: <001501c16079$afd27840$3aca28c3@ericadodd> References: <2614258.1004295195891.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Peter, I got 2 formulae from 'Grundlagen der Hochfrequenztechnik' : 1. For 'slim' coils (H>>D) : L = 2*Pi*N^2*D(3.47/(1+2.2*H/D)-K*C/H) where L = inductance (nH) N = windings D = average coil diameter (cm) H = coil length (cm) C = thickness of the wirelayers (all together, in cm) K = correction factor depending on H/C ratio : L/C K 2 0.10 3 0.15 5 0.23 10 0.27 15 0.30 20 0.31 30 0.32 2. For 'fat' coils (H<=D) : L = 78*L^2*D/(3*D+9*H+10*C) If the coil is not close wound then a correction factor dL has to be taken into account : dL = 2*Pi*D*(ln(b/d)+0.155) where b = wire spacing (centre wire to centre wire) d = wire diameter ln = natural logaritm dL has to be added to L (but since always b > d , dL will be negative). I hope the above gives at least an idea where to start with, 73, Rik ON7YD >I am dismantling a Decca loading coil with the objective of rebuilding it to >load my 16m high antenna. It will be converted so that it is a multi-layer >coil. Does anyone know of a formula for multilayer coils where the spacing >between the layers is several times the wire diameter? > >Regards, >Peter, G3LDO > >e-mail > >Web > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28990 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2001 15:04:57 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Oct 2001 15:04:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27554 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2001 15:03:33 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Oct 2001 15:03:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yDtc-0007UJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 15:00:12 +0000 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yDtb-0007UE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 15:00:11 +0000 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (211.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.211]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f9TExF710805 for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 14:59:15 GMT Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011029143235.00a16110@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 14:58:39 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: Re: LF: R. G3JKV/QRP In-reply-to: <000201c1607f$7fbd25a0$ec9b883e@g3aqc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 13:41 29/10/01 Monday, you wrote: >Walters signals here at 13:30, S7 in band noise of S5 very readable,for >500mW input Pwr. Did not reply so guess test transmission. 73s Laurie. Tks rpt, Laurie. After all the sarky comments about wobbly oscs I finally abandoned attempts to make the VFO in my sig. gen. stable. Now driving it from my old IC-720 running at 13.6...... MHz divided down by 100. Seems quite stable once warmed up for half an hour or so. This has at last got rid of the 10 Hz CW chirp I had so now I can go on QRSS. That's what I was testing for. Sri I didn't see you. Maybe bw too narrow on Spectran - I was using max resolution to look for chirp so could only see sigs plus/minus 50 Hz. Jolly useful, these 2m relays!!! Now to put all the patch wires etc into one box................... Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9697 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2001 13:48:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Oct 2001 13:48:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 6109 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2001 13:48:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Oct 2001 13:48:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yChG-0007GF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 13:43:22 +0000 Received: from cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.177]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yChF-0007GA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 13:43:21 +0000 Received: from modem-108.dor-lomin.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.155.236] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15yCga-0006cZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 13:42:40 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c1607f$7fbd25a0$ec9b883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: R. G3JKV/QRP Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 13:41:04 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Walters signals here at 13:30, S7 in band noise of S5 very readable,for 500mW input Pwr. Did not reply so guess test transmission. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21909 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2001 13:04:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Oct 2001 13:04:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 2618 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2001 13:04:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Oct 2001 13:04:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yC1S-000768-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 13:00:10 +0000 Received: from latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.40]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yC1R-000763-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 13:00:09 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-3-58.easynet.co.uk [195.40.202.58]) by latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1436D5465B for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 12:59:22 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <001501c16079$afd27840$3aca28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <2614258.1004295195891.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> Subject: LF: Decca Coils Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 12:59:47 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I am dismantling a Decca loading coil with the objective of rebuilding it to load my 16m high antenna. It will be converted so that it is a multi-layer coil. Does anyone know of a formula for multilayer coils where the spacing between the layers is several times the wire diameter? Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20581 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2001 13:04:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Oct 2001 13:04:26 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24272 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2001 13:04:12 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Oct 2001 13:04:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yBvf-00075O-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 12:54:11 +0000 Received: from imo-d10.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.42]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15yBvb-00075J-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 12:54:08 +0000 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.8.) id l.42.1c7f9fe5 (3699) for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 07:52:47 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <42.1c7f9fe5.290eab1f@aol.com> Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 07:52:47 EST Subject: LF: Re: Clowns on the OH2AQ DX cluster To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 10504 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Rik and the Group,

I think the DX cluster entries on 136kHz are just stupid nonsens.
If you check the PACKET DX cluster (use "sh/dx 137" on a CLX cluster),
you don't see this junk.

There have been similar OH2AQ cluster spots in the past days, I guess it's always the same person who found something new to waste his time with.

73, Wolf DL4YHF. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23624 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2001 09:40:07 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO guinness.servers.plus.net) (212.159.3.230) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Oct 2001 09:40:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18312 invoked from network); 29 Oct 2001 09:26:03 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (212.172.148.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Oct 2001 09:26:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15y8iH-0006X9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 09:28:09 +0000 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15y8iF-0006X4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 09:28:08 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA651726 for ; Mon, 29 Oct 2001 10:27:26 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20011029102529.2b9f73a0@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 29 Oct 2001 10:25:29 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Tiny coils In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello all, Again interesting stuff on the OH2QA DX-cluster : >JJ8HOA 136.7 OH1BS 2309 28 Oct >9M2JI 136.5 G3AQC 1833 28 Oct Seems that Laurie has improved his personal DX by being heard in Malaysia, or maybe just some funny guys at work ... 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8081 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2001 21:37:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Oct 2001 21:37:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 7433 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2001 21:37:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Oct 2001 21:37:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xxYz-0004xF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:33:49 +0000 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xxYy-0004xA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:33:48 +0000 Received: from [217.35.24.69] (helo=dellboy) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15xxYB-0005CD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:32:59 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01c15ff8$168f4220$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: GM trip Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 21:32:43 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Dear all.
 
I put out some QRSS from NW GM as announced but no takers. The antenna was the best ever at the site, 80mtrs end fed at 13mtrs high and all in the clear, after to some clandestine tree-climbing and bow and arrow work!
Thanks to EI0CF(320km) and G3KEV(485km) for the CW contacts.
Heavy Loran from the Faeroe Islands made reception a bit tricky but I'm sure I could have copied some more distant stations if anyone had been around.
 
I copied a mystery transmission centered around 137kHz although there was no carrier on 137. It had two sets of sidebands, one around 136.65 and one around 137.3, each was about 100Hz wide. It sounded like little bursts of data on the speaker. Quite weak. I have a recording if anyone thinks they can analyse it!
 
Another query.
Whilst travelling back down the M6 through Cumbria today I noticed a large umbrella loaded vertical, at least 100m high, I guess at the Skelton transmitter site. Obviously an LF antenna, I wondered if anyone knew what it was for?
 
73.
Dave.
G3YXM
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 992 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2001 19:03:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Oct 2001 19:03:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 14983 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2001 19:02:20 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Oct 2001 19:02:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xv5G-0004cm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 18:54:58 +0000 Received: from [204.202.140.199] (helo=gomailmta-bc.seamail.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xv5F-0004ch-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 18:54:57 +0000 Received: from gomailjtp05 ([10.212.0.165]) by mta07.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GLX001PGJ4PTM@mta07.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 10:53:13 -0800 (PST) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 10:53:15 -0700 (PST) From: "John Sexton" Subject: LF: QRSS transmssions To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <2614258.1004295195891.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, Now that I have dried out my loading coil and hopefully solved the problem once for all I shall be starting QRSS transmissions again on weekdays starting tomorrow, Monday 29 October. Frequency 137.700 kHz 16.00 till 17.00 3 second dots 17.00 till 19.00 10 second dots all times UTC. Look forward to some more QSOs. I am particularly interested to see how far I can get with 10 second dots. 73 es hp cul John, G4CNN ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19489 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2001 15:36:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Oct 2001 15:36:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3630 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2001 15:36:33 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Oct 2001 15:36:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xrwN-0004CE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 15:33:35 +0000 Received: from siaag2ae.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.135]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xrwM-0004C9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 15:33:34 +0000 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2ae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id KAA09368 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 10:32:53 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 10:32:31 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: DN1VLF To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200110281032_MC3-E4C5-2CBE@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LF-friends, >Looking at Argo's savings in found DN1VLF, received 10:30 >on 137722 and not seen before [not by me] >Anyone has more info, locator etc etc. DN1VLF is located in Berlin, however, I do not know the QTH locatior. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 561 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2001 14:05:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Oct 2001 14:05:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 15838 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2001 14:04:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Oct 2001 14:04:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xqVy-00040a-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 14:02:14 +0000 Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.45]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xqVx-00040V-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 14:02:13 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.96.140]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20011028140132.TFTS490.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 14:01:32 +0000 Message-ID: <000401c15fb9$32a8db40$8c6068d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200110281321.f9SDLPV23470@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Subject: LF: Re: DN1VLF Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 14:02:35 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Looking at Argo's savings in found DN1VLF, received 10:30 on 137722 and not seen before [not by me] Anyone has more info, locator etc etc. 73 Ko Versteeg, NL9222 [SWL] I also saw this station calling CQ (an 'M' in QRSS) - but copied it as DN1VLC in the noise. Having almost finished my painting, I am rebuilding the station and have installed my Ropex Tx which I bought two years ago but never used. It runs about 120W giving me 1.2A into the antenna (the Decca Tx gives 3.2A but not yet reinstalled). Has a QSO with GW4HXO using the Ropex. Mike, G3XDV, IO91VT From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16442 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2001 13:24:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Oct 2001 13:24:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11345 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2001 13:24:11 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Oct 2001 13:24:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xptG-0003uN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 13:22:14 +0000 Received: from smtp1.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.35.136] helo=smtp.wanadoo.nl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xptF-0003tv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 13:22:13 +0000 Received: from nl9222 (p1334.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.170.59]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f9SDLPV23470 for ; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 14:21:26 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <200110281321.f9SDLPV23470@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 14:21:23 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: DN1VLF X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by smtp.wanadoo.nl id f9SDLPV23470 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All. Looking at Argo's savings in found DN1VLF, received 10:30 on 137722 and not seen before [not by me] Anyone has more info, locator etc etc. 73 Ko Versteeg, NL9222 [SWL] [Grid: JO22KE - Lat: 52° 12' 15.0"N Long: 04° 51' 40.5"E] Home: http://home.wanadoo.nl/nl9222/index.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19545 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2001 10:19:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Oct 2001 10:19:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 15195 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2001 10:19:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Oct 2001 10:19:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xmw2-0003WP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 10:12:54 +0000 Received: from chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net ([212.135.1.67]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xmw0-0003WK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 10:12:53 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-18-81.easynet.co.uk [212.134.224.81]) by chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id BC8E51D512D for ; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 10:12:11 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000f01c15f99$283ff640$51e086d4@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011025210142.009f8930@mail.pncl.co.uk> <5.0.2.1.2.20011026101213.00a00ad0@mail.pncl.co.uk> <3BD99181.A8211A12@netscapeonline.co.uk> <3BDA7C4F.BBACDE84@virgin.net> <3BDAEA39.C4FF712D@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: LF: Silent majority Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 10:12:10 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >There is a silent majority about that knows exactly what is going on and one of these days the bubble could >burst, when the majority point out to the RA what is really happening, and it is certainly not for the benefit >of the majority of LF amateurs throughout the UK. >Don't forget a lot of active LF amateurs are not using this media to express their opinions, however they are in >contact with one another by telephone and private email. >Let me and others have your observations. G3KEV OK, well here are mine. As I understand it the LF bands were allocated on the grounds that they are used mainly for experimental work. In this respect the development of small antenna systems, class D PA's, narrow band modes and LF DX propagation studies are fine example of this. The VHF receive transponder at Crawley is a further example of this experimental work Furthermore, we have an excellent medium for exchanging technical ideas and propagation forecasts etc in the form of the RSGB LF reflector. And what is it being used for? So that our resident vociferous Luddite can deride other peoples efforts in intimidating language. Fine stuff for politics but not the language of amateur radio. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15551 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2001 09:56:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Oct 2001 09:56:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 17388 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2001 09:56:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Oct 2001 09:56:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xmYU-0003Qv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 09:48:34 +0000 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xmYT-0003Qq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 09:48:33 +0000 Received: from [213.122.230.39] (helo=computer) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15xmXk-0003v6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 09:47:50 +0000 Message-ID: <001201c15f97$8710a540$27e67ad5@computer> From: "Martin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <137.3b49f9b.290ca820@aol.com> Subject: Re: LF: What is it? Date: Sun, 28 Oct 2001 10:00:43 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Save us from the rightious! Martin M0MGM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10698 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2001 00:21:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Oct 2001 00:21:33 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 720 invoked from network); 28 Oct 2001 00:20:10 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Oct 2001 00:20:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xdd8-0002J2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 01:16:46 +0100 Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.164]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xdd6-0002Ix-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 28 Oct 2001 01:16:44 +0100 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.8.) id l.137.3b49f9b (3967) for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 20:15:29 -0400 (EDT) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <137.3b49f9b.290ca820@aol.com> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 20:15:28 EDT Subject: Re: LF: What is it? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 10/27/01 2:15:01 PM Eastern Daylight Time, gii3kev@netscapeonline.co.uk writes: << There is a silent majority about that knows exactly what is going on and one of these days the bubble could burst, when the majority point out to the the RA what is really happening,,,, a lot of active LF amateurs are not using this media to express their opinions, however they are in contact with one another by telephone and private email. >> I realize Halloween is almost at hand, but please don't tell us the ghost of Richard Nixon has returned to now haunt the pleasant hills, meadows, and antenna farm/gardens of the Motherland. Horror of horrors, complete with an underground network of "right-thinking" vigilantes! General unpleasantness is one thing, but surely such thinly veiled threats and intimidation are themselves hardly in keeping with the amateur spirit. KD4IDY From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15149 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2001 20:20:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Oct 2001 20:20:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 5632 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2001 20:19:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Oct 2001 20:19:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xZrz-0001mc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 21:15:51 +0100 Received: from latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.40]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xZry-0001mX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 21:15:51 +0100 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-3-58.easynet.co.uk [195.40.202.58]) by latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B5E2053A9D for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 21:15:07 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <001f01c15f25$ee835e60$3aca28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: Tiny coils Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 21:27:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Bob > I noticed in RF DESIGN a note on 'antenna coils' designed for RFID > applications at 125 kHz, and made of ferrite laminated on to a ceramic base, > with values to 8.1 mH. They are very small, 12 x 4 x 3 mm, and may not be of > use for our purpose, but the "125 kHz" sort of jumped out at me, and I > thought I would mention it. The company has a website at www.coilcraft.com. These will be fine for receive applications but are no use for transmitting loading coils. The reason is that, with antennas so electrically small, the potential gradient across the coil is very high. LF transmitting coils have to be physically large for that reason. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3533 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2001 19:26:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Oct 2001 19:26:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 6986 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2001 19:25:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Oct 2001 19:25:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xZ1O-0001fb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 20:21:30 +0100 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xZ1N-0001fW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 20:21:30 +0100 Received: from [62.7.20.53] (helo=default) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15xZ0j-0007aE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 20:20:49 +0100 Message-ID: <001b01c15f1c$854fb140$9443073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: re Propagation Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 19:29:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Ko, an interesting read but it doesnt have a lot of bearing on 136kHz. The LF signals do not penetrate the E-layer, and usually a 'wipe-out' out at HF due to a flare means enhanced daytime propagation on 136k Hz.. This was certainly the case at 1500z on Thursday. The after effects of the last CME seem to have disipated quite quickly. There was a daytime enhancement of 10-15dBs on Thursday, between 100z and 1300z . The absorption then shows a steady increase until the flare at 1500z. Friday was 'normal' with a small flare (M1.3) just after 1000z. We seem to be through the night-time absorption phase and into the rapid qsb phase. So the night-time path may not be too bad until about Tuesday night when the effects of the CME, expected tonight or early tomorrow , begins to have effect. (Forecast thanks to the invaluable data from Brian CT1DRP with a little help from the lucky rabbit's paw) If you have a clear sky (we did here an hour of so back) look out for aurora around midnight tonight (Saturday) Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24800 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2001 18:18:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Oct 2001 18:18:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21473 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2001 18:18:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Oct 2001 18:18:09 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xXw6-0001Wp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 19:11:58 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xXw4-0001Wk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 19:11:56 +0100 Received: from ldsas11-75-126-95.cw-visp.com ([212.137.126.95] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15xXmE-0005zi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 18:01:47 +0000 Message-ID: <3BDAEA39.C4FF712D@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 18:09:13 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: What is it? References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011025210142.009f8930@mail.pncl.co.uk> <5.0.2.1.2.20011026101213.00a00ad0@mail.pncl.co.uk> <3BD99181.A8211A12@netscapeonline.co.uk> <3BDA7C4F.BBACDE84@virgin.net> Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit  

Stewart Bryant wrote:

 

gii3kev wrote:

 

Walter Blanchard wrote:

 At 08:17 26/10/01 Friday, G3YMC wrote:
................................................................................ Ideally these
transmissions should be in the 'test' area of the agreed band plan below 136.0.


Problem is I'm using the MB7LF relay for seeing what happens and
it doesn't relay sigs below 136 very well (pace Derek!).

I did say it would turn out to be a plaything for some!!!!!!!!!! What does G3GRO and his buddies think now?????? certainly not what they said it was for, not to mention the RSGB licence holder and the RA.
G3KEV
1)  I am the person responsible to the RA for the correct operation of this system, and
not G3GRO. Any finger pointing should be directed at me and not at him
I will then point the finger. By his own admission on a message here he admits to using a wobbly signal generator, hence an unstable signal, and wonders what it sounds like when he plays via the repeater/rx relay. Instablilty and unstable transmissions have never been acceptable by the RA.
This signal and the wobbly signals dots that you heard a short time ago are probably one in the same thing and not coming from me as you SAID. I have been active all week and over the week end and await the spectrogram that you promised of my signal. This afternoon I also heard G4C.. testing and tuning up and sending a string of dots, looks like you are totally confused. Cannot remember when I heard your signal on LF, it seems that all the whingers about LF are not even capable of putting out a signal on the band. Maybe it is time that I had a word with the RA about what is really going on.
There is a silent majority about that knows exactly what is going on and one of these days the bubble could burst, when the majority point out to the the RA what is really happening, and it is certainly not for the benefit of the majority of LF amateurs throughout the UK.
Dont forget a lot of active LF amateurs are not using this media to express their opinions, however they are in contact with one another by telephone and private email.
Let me and others have your observations.
G3KEV
 
 
 
 
 

2) Technically pulling the system together was accomplished by G3GRO, and he
should be given full credit for that achievement.

3) The very first thing that the RA said to me when I approached them about this project
was that their goal was to encourage experimentation, and so I would expect them to be
pleased that it is encouraging just that.

4) The system is experimental and we know that it has limitations. The whole point of the
licience and the experiment is to learn how to build a better system.

Stewart G3YSX
 

 
 
 
 

The wobbly osc should be cured soon (why does an osc wobble when
it's got three buffers between it and the load?)
 

When are you going to come on and work all of us Walter?


When my Morse receive abilities are good enough to follow
25 wpm!  I haven't used Morse for 30 years.
(stand by for a blast from you-know-who)

Walter G3JKV

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7861 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2001 17:46:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Oct 2001 17:46:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 2123 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2001 17:45:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Oct 2001 17:45:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xXTK-0001Q9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 18:42:14 +0100 Received: from cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.177]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xXTJ-0001Q4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 18:42:13 +0100 Received: from modem-55.cuthalion.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.150.55] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15xXSd-0005Xu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 18:41:32 +0100 Message-ID: <000201c15f0f$2c3c9300$3796883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. Beacon Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 18:44:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi John and Dex, I will try a frequency shift tonight -- 72,401.5 DFCW , 60sec elements (dot). Hopefully this will clear Johns QRM. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15965 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2001 17:44:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Oct 2001 17:44:26 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26067 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2001 17:41:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Oct 2001 17:41:56 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xXPQ-0001PX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 18:38:12 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xXPP-0001PS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 18:38:12 +0100 Received: from ldsas16-80-131-12.cw-visp.com ([212.137.131.12] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15xXFa-0005Cn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 17:28:03 +0000 Message-ID: <3BDAE291.2A059623@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 17:36:34 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: new Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: DK7SU informs me that he was delighted to work me for his first qso with the UK. I didnt think there were many firsts left with EU. I am awaiting new countries to come on air to get the countries score up. I have worked several xband new countries but they do not seem to be active on 136 khz. Although I have worked 3 in Spain xband they do not seem to be interested in getting on 136 khz. Think there is one station active in Portugal but no one that I know has ever worked him on hand sent CW. Think he is visual only and cannot hear/see me which surprise me since I am being heard in Malta and other places more distant. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25902 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2001 16:06:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Oct 2001 16:06:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 20151 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2001 16:04:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Oct 2001 16:04:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xVub-0001EX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 17:02:17 +0100 Received: from dc-mx08.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.18] helo=dc-mx08.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xVua-0001ES-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 17:02:16 +0100 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johnupstairs) by dc-mx08.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 40999084 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 12:08:47 -0400 Message-ID: <001101c15f01$08cad0c0$0200a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001201c15ef0$99548660$4f7a883e@g3aqc> Subject: LF: Re: Re Beacon Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 12:04:17 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Laurie, > Sorry I missed your 17:46 message yesterday. I did beacon last night on the > 71,921.5 freq. Nothing seen. Noise levels were better, but there is a strong station centered about 71.86 kHz, occupying a 180 Hz BW. > Re. another freq. I can run from 71,700 > to 74,400 but prefer the bottom end. Available freqs are 71,601.5 > to 74,391.5 in 0.01kHz steps ie 71,601 -71,611.5 - 71,621.5 etc. > Any help with a clear freq. would be appreciated. Starting at 71.95 kHz, you could be clear of that station if my receiver's BW were extremely narrow. However, with the 250 Hz filter (my narrowest), it would help if you could be at 72.40 or above. Otherwise, the AGC is controlled by the interfering station. > I will beacon tonight although condx. are due to worsen soon. My RF ears are promised to another, tonight. Sorry. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24392 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2001 14:05:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Oct 2001 14:05:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 11367 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2001 14:05:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Oct 2001 14:05:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xU3Y-00010K-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 15:03:24 +0100 Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xU3X-00010F-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 15:03:23 +0100 Received: from modem-79.arda.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.122.79] helo=g3aqc) by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15xU2r-0000kW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 15:02:41 +0100 Message-ID: <001201c15ef0$99548660$4f7a883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re Beacon Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 15:06:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi John, Sorry I missed your 17:46 message yesterday. I did beacon last night on the 71,921.5 freq. Re. another freq. I can run from 71,700 to 74,400 but prefer the bottom end. Available freqs are 71,601.5 to 74,391.5 in 0.01kHz steps ie 71,601 -71,611.5 - 71,621.5 etc. Any help with a clear freq. would be appreciated. I will beacon tonight although condx. are due to worsen soon. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7460 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2001 13:55:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Oct 2001 13:55:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 20815 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2001 13:53:06 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Oct 2001 13:53:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xTr5-0000xL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 14:50:31 +0100 Received: from smtp2.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.35.138] helo=smtp.wanadoo.nl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xTr3-0000xG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 14:50:30 +0100 Received: from nl9222 (p432.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.201.32]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f9RDnl814797 for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 15:49:47 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <200110271349.f9RDnl814797@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 15:49:42 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Propagation X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by smtp.wanadoo.nl id f9RDnl814797 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ZCZC AP44 QST de W1AW Propagation Forecast Bulletin 44 ARLP044 >From Tad Cook, K7VVV Seattle, WA October 26, 2001 To all radio amateurs SB PROP ARL ARLP044 ARLP044 Propagation de K7VVV Solar flux and sunspot numbers rose this week. Unfortunately for HF operators, so did geomagnetic activity. Average sunspot numbers rose nearly 47 points and average daily solar flux was up nearly 43 points. Geomagnetic conditions were quite active on Sunday and Monday, and reached a peak on Monday with a planetary A index of 66. Planetary K indices were 5 during three of the three-hour reporting periods, 6 during three periods, and 7 during one period. This indicates a severe geomagnetic storm, one that produced dramatic aurora displays. Conditions were worse toward the poles. Alaska's College A index was 93 on Monday, with the K index as high as 8. HF radio operators like a K index of 3 or less. What is bad for HF conditions can make VHF very interesting. JA7SSB reported that 6-meters was quite active in Japan, with SSB signals from Italy monitored in Sendai City, 350 km north of Tokyo around 0600z on Monday. On both Monday and Tuesday from 0600-0900z, JA7SSB was hearing VK9 (Norfolk Island), VK, A51, KH6 and FO signals from his QTH in Fukushima, 80 km south of Sendai. All this excitement was from solar activity on Friday when flares erupted above sunspot 9661. Another coronal mass ejection hit the earth's magnetosphere on October 25, but did not cause a disturbance. K indices on Wednesday and Thursday were very low, around 1 and 2, and the planetary A index on Wednesday 3. Even though conditions had quieted down by Thursday, this does not look like a quiet weekend for the CQ Worldwide DX SSB Contest. A flare around 1500z on Thursday caused a strong radio blackout across the Americas and Europe. This expanding cloud of energy will probably strike earth this weekend, ruining northern propagation paths. When this occurs, some operators notice an enhanced north-south propagation path, but what really happens is that the north-south path is often the only remaining path for HF propagation. The latest projections late Thursday predict a declining solar flux of 230, 225, 220 and 215 for Friday through Monday, and an A index of 10, 20, 30 and 15 for those same days. Sunspot numbers for October 18 through 24 were 182, 219, 230, 239, 207, 231 and 230 with a mean of 219.7. 10.7 cm flux was 228.7, 247.6, 244.7, 224.1, 232.7, 226.4 and 238.7, with a mean of 234.7, and estimated planetary A indices were 4, 8, 10, 40, 66, 15 and 3 with a mean of 20.9. NNNN /EX 73 Ko Versteeg, NL9222 [SWL] [Grid: JO22KE - Lat: 52° 12' 15.0"N Long: 04° 51' 40.5"E] Home: http://home.wanadoo.nl/nl9222/index.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2318 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2001 09:37:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Oct 2001 09:37:32 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 14092 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2001 09:36:09 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Oct 2001 09:36:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xPoU-0000Uh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 10:31:34 +0100 Received: from mta02.btfusion.com ([62.172.195.247] helo=btclick.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xPoT-0000Uc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 10:31:33 +0100 Received: from virgin.net ([213.121.108.190]) by btclick.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.05) with ESMTP id GLUYCI01.1Q7 for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 10:29:06 +0100 Message-ID: <3BDA7E85.A6903EB7@virgin.net> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 10:29:41 +0100 From: "Stewart Bryant" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: What is it? References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011025210142.009f8930@mail.pncl.co.uk> <5.0.2.1.2.20011026101213.00a00ad0@mail.pncl.co.uk> Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Walter

We know that there is roll-off at the top and bottom of the passband,
and we do intend to charaterise this and build a pre-emphasis system, however
we will shortly be changing the equipment, and so it is better to wait until
after the change.

In the meantime, I could move both Rx and Tx a 100 Hz or so LF if that would help.

Stewart G3YSX
 
 

Walter Blanchard wrote:

 At 08:17 26/10/01 Friday, G3YMC wrote:
................................................................................ Ideally these
transmissions should be in the 'test' area of the agreed band plan below 136.0.


Problem is I'm using the MB7LF relay for seeing what happens and
it doesn't relay sigs below 136 very well (pace Derek!).

The wobbly osc should be cured soon (why does an osc wobble when
it's got three buffers between it and the load?)
 

When are you going to come on and work all of us Walter?


When my Morse receive abilities are good enough to follow
25 wpm!  I haven't used Morse for 30 years.
(stand by for a blast from you-know-who)

Walter G3JKV

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14875 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2001 09:27:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Oct 2001 09:27:58 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 2479 invoked from network); 27 Oct 2001 09:27:42 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Oct 2001 09:27:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xPef-0000Tu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 10:21:25 +0100 Received: from mta01.btfusion.com ([62.172.195.11] helo=btclick.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xPee-0000To-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 10:21:24 +0100 Received: from virgin.net ([213.121.108.190]) by btclick.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.05) with ESMTP id GLUXWS01.5GH for ; Sat, 27 Oct 2001 10:19:40 +0100 Message-ID: <3BDA7C4F.BBACDE84@virgin.net> Date: Sat, 27 Oct 2001 10:20:16 +0100 From: "Stewart Bryant" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: What is it? References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011025210142.009f8930@mail.pncl.co.uk> <5.0.2.1.2.20011026101213.00a00ad0@mail.pncl.co.uk> <3BD99181.A8211A12@netscapeonline.co.uk> Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit  

gii3kev wrote:

 

Walter Blanchard wrote:

 At 08:17 26/10/01 Friday, G3YMC wrote:
................................................................................ Ideally these
transmissions should be in the 'test' area of the agreed band plan below 136.0.


Problem is I'm using the MB7LF relay for seeing what happens and
it doesn't relay sigs below 136 very well (pace Derek!).

I did say it would turn out to be a plaything for some!!!!!!!!!! What does G3GRO and his buddies think now?????? certainly not what they said it was for, not to mention the RSGB licence holder and the RA.
G3KEV
1)  I am the person responsible to the RA for the correct operation of this system, and
not G3GRO. Any finger pointing should be directed at me and not at him.

2) Technically pulling the system together was accomplished by G3GRO, and he
should be given full credit for that achievement.

3) The very first thing that the RA said to me when I approached them about this project
was that their goal was to encourage experimentation, and so I would expect them to be
pleased that it is encouraging just that.

4) The system is experimental and we know that it has limitations. The whole point of the
licience and the experiment is to learn how to build a better system.

Stewart G3YSX
 

 
 
 
 

The wobbly osc should be cured soon (why does an osc wobble when
it's got three buffers between it and the load?)
 

When are you going to come on and work all of us Walter?


When my Morse receive abilities are good enough to follow
25 wpm!  I haven't used Morse for 30 years.
(stand by for a blast from you-know-who)

Walter G3JKV

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1631 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2001 19:34:16 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 19:34:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16566 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2001 19:32:54 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 19:32:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xCgR-0007Rk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 20:30:23 +0100 Received: from rabacal.direct.ca ([199.60.229.8]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xCgP-0007Rf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 20:30:22 +0100 Received: from bc-van-mut-a53-10-101.look.ca ([216.66.146.101]) by rabacal.direct.ca with smtp (Exim 2.12 #7) id 15xCfd-0005zx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 12:29:34 -0700 X-Sender: eldridge@direct.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Bob Eldridge " Subject: LF: Tiny coils Message-ID: Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 12:29:34 -0700 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all: I noticed in RF DESIGN a note on 'antenna coils' designed for RFID applications at 125 kHz, and made of ferrite laminated on to a ceramic base, with values to 8.1 mH. They are very small, 12 x 4 x 3 mm, and may not be of use for our purpose, but the "125 kHz" sort of jumped out at me, and I thought I would mention it. The company has a website at www.coilcraft.com. Bob VE7BS From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25075 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2001 18:16:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 18:16:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 12268 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2001 18:13:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 18:13:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xBPt-0007H2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 19:09:13 +0100 Received: from latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.40]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xBPs-0007Gx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 19:09:12 +0100 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-3-36.easynet.co.uk [195.40.202.36]) by latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5234453E13 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 19:08:25 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <004901c15e4b$0e106c40$1ac928c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200110261145.NAA00788@db0bm.ampr.org> <003301c15e2a$208355c0$1ac928c3@ericadodd> Subject: LF: Re: Re: QRSS test transmission today... Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 18:42:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Nice signal received at 1400UTC (went off at 1408) on 137.704kHz, using 3 > second dots and sending DJ1FK. sorry - sending DJ1YFK Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19635 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2001 17:45:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 17:45:35 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9828 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2001 17:44:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 17:44:13 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xAya-0007BQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 18:41:00 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xAyZ-0007BL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 18:40:59 +0100 Received: from ldsas13-77-128-165.cw-visp.com ([212.137.128.165] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15xAol-0006JL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:30:52 +0000 Message-ID: <3BD99181.A8211A12@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:38:26 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: What is it? References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011025210142.009f8930@mail.pncl.co.uk> <5.0.2.1.2.20011026101213.00a00ad0@mail.pncl.co.uk> Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit  

Walter Blanchard wrote:

 At 08:17 26/10/01 Friday, G3YMC wrote:
................................................................................ Ideally these
transmissions should be in the 'test' area of the agreed band plan below 136.0.


Problem is I'm using the MB7LF relay for seeing what happens and
it doesn't relay sigs below 136 very well (pace Derek!).

I did say it would turn out to be a plaything for some!!!!!!!!!! What does G3GRO and his buddies think now?????? certainly not what they said it was for, not to mention the RSGB licence holder and the RA.
G3KEV
 
 
 
 

The wobbly osc should be cured soon (why does an osc wobble when
it's got three buffers between it and the load?)
 

When are you going to come on and work all of us Walter?


When my Morse receive abilities are good enough to follow
25 wpm!  I haven't used Morse for 30 years.
(stand by for a blast from you-know-who)

Walter G3JKV

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12550 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2001 17:22:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 17:22:51 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 12837 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2001 17:21:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 17:21:28 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xAVa-00075x-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 18:11:02 +0100 Received: from mailout04.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.18] helo=mailout04.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xAVZ-00075s-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 18:11:01 +0100 Received: from fwd07.sul.t-online.de by mailout04.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 15xAUe-0002yO-00; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 19:10:04 +0200 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.157.50.34]) by fwd07.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 15xAUM-0eLErQC; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 19:09:46 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001201c15d67$84efb080$7594153e@w8k3f0> Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: Loading coils and shorted turns X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 19:09:46 +0200 Message-ID: <15xAUM-0eLErQC@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dick Rollema schrieb: > To All from PA0SE > > Dear OM, > > Of my loading coil about 1/5 is shortcircuited. Leaving it open makes no > difference in aerial current. > There could be some difference in coil losses of course but the effect of > this is diluted by the much larger earth resistance in series. Measuring Q, > as Rik did, could show a difference, if any. > > 73, Dick, PA0SE Hi All, the not used windings of the static part of the coil (400mm diameter, 48 windings of 1x75 litze(4mm diam.)) I too leave open (35 windings !). but reading here on the reflector that it could be wrong I made a test: I shortcircuited the unused. no change of the aerial current after retuning the variometer. BUT: I observed a strange behavior of the SWR meter connected between the 50m coax to the TRX and the coil. in the first 30msec or so at the start of any keying the TRX the needle of the meter vibrated like a friendly dogs tail. every dash and dot the same behavior. result: I threw the shortcircuit wire away. it landed on neighbors farmyard. regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4593 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2001 17:13:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 17:13:08 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29164 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2001 17:10:39 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 17:10:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xALA-000739-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 18:00:16 +0100 Received: from ewey-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.191] helo=ewey.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15xAL8-00072f-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 18:00:15 +0100 Received: from goatee.excite.com ([199.172.157.31]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20011026165857.QMSV25765.ewey.excite.com@goatee.excite.com> for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 09:58:57 -0700 Message-ID: <3788787.1004115537162.JavaMail.imail@goatee.excite.com> Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 09:58:55 -0700 (PDT) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: QRSS test transmission today... MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender-Ip: 213.104.152.128 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Sorry Fabian, I had planned to listen, but some urgent QRL came up and I was unable to. So no report today. Please continue with your transmissions. Next week I expect to be able to listen regularly. It is great to see QRSS becoming popular again. 73 and best of luck John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ http://inbox.excite.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24700 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2001 15:52:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO guinness.servers.plus.net) (212.159.3.230) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 15:52:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 20175 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2001 15:24:12 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (212.172.148.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 15:24:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15x8la-0006ph-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 16:19:26 +0100 Received: from mailout03.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.81] helo=mailout03.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15x8lY-0006pQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 16:19:25 +0100 Received: from fwd02.sul.t-online.de by mailout03.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 15x8ku-0005CW-0A; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:18:44 +0200 Received: from 217.3.95.121 (0607144537-0001@[217.3.95.121]) by fwd02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 15x8kl-111UyOC; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 17:18:35 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: LF: test transmission From: "Bernd Grupe" To: "reflector rsgb" X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 4.009 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------070609040909070007010605" Date: 26 Oct 2001 15:17 GMT Message-ID: <15x8kl-111UyOC@fwd02.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0607144537-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070609040909070007010605 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit

Hi Fabian,

captured a picture of your signals at 1417UTC on 137.702 kHz.
Software Easygram, speed 2000 ms, but couldn`t read the morse.
Guess I got 3sec dots?


Regards,
Bernd, DF8ZR ; JN49UJ = 364 kM



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Received: from unknown (HELO guinness.servers.plus.net) (212.159.3.230) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 14:26:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 20021 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2001 14:10:49 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (212.172.148.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 14:10:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15x7jk-0006f8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 15:13:28 +0100 Received: from latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.40]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15x7jj-0006f3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 15:13:27 +0100 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-6-26.easynet.co.uk [195.40.201.26]) by latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 58BE653B85 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 15:12:46 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <003301c15e2a$208355c0$1ac928c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200110261145.NAA00788@db0bm.ampr.org> Subject: LF: Re: QRSS test transmission today... Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 15:25:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Fabian, > I will again make a qrss-test transmission today. the transission on wednesday > was not heard by anyone, but I think I have found the reason.. there was a > little arcing at the antenna-isulation down here in the shack.. now I fixed > the problem and will be transmitting from 1200 UTC to at least 1400 UTC > (probably 1500 UTC) with 30 seconds dotlength on 137.690 (+/- some Hz)... > > Would be nice to receive any reports.. My ERP is very low, in the order of > 10mW ... Nice signal received at 1400UTC (went off at 1408) on 137.704kHz, using 3 second dots and sending DJ1FK. This signal .02Hz high of a Loran sideband line so in the clear. Receiver here TS-180 with loop antenna as shown on the web page shown below. Well done with 10mW. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23560 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2001 13:25:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 13:25:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 13733 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2001 13:23:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 13:23:18 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15x6mt-0006VO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 14:12:39 +0100 Received: from moutvdom01.kundenserver.de ([195.20.224.200]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15x6ms-0006VJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 14:12:38 +0100 Received: from [195.20.224.204] (helo=mrvdom00.schlund.de) by moutvdom01.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 15x6mC-00069d-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 15:11:56 +0200 Received: from pd9014a07.dip.t-dialin.net ([217.1.74.7] helo=diolog.de) by mrvdom00.schlund.de with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 15x6lP-0003p5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 15:11:08 +0200 Message-ID: <3BD944FF.76BFBBAC@diolog.de> Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 13:11:59 +0200 From: "Fabian Kurz" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: de MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: What is it? References: <200110260632_MC3-E4B9-B1F5@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > ... no excuses, using the attached "Morse-Code-Chart" (hope the 13 kB jpeg > makes it through the reflector ...), you can look up each individual > letter, probably not at 25 wpm, but at the usual speeds on LF, and > especially using Slow-CW (remember: LF-Enthusiasts do it extremely slow!). Hey, I love CW-QSO's at 40 wpm. Am I not a real LF-Enthusiast? :) ... 73, Fabian dj1yfk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14567 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2001 11:47:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO guinness.servers.plus.net) (212.159.3.230) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 11:47:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 17742 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2001 11:31:58 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (212.172.148.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 11:31:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15x5L8-0006Gw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 12:39:54 +0100 Received: from mailgate.fh-aachen.de ([149.201.10.254]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15x5L7-0006Gr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 12:39:53 +0100 Received: from db0bm.ampr.org (db0bm.automation.fh-aachen.de [193.175.144.197]) by mailgate.fh-aachen.de (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f9QCVgt08117 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 13:31:42 +0100 (WEST) Posted-Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 13:31:42 +0100 (WEST) Received: (from dj1yfk@localhost) by db0bm.ampr.org (8.9.3/8.9.3/SuSE Linux 8.9.3-0.1) id NAA00788 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 13:45:31 +0200 Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 13:45:31 +0200 From: "dj1yfk" Message-ID: <200110261145.NAA00788@db0bm.ampr.org> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: QRSS test transmission today... Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello .. I will again make a qrss-test transmission today. the transission on wednesday was not heard by anyone, but I think I have found the reason.. there was a little arcing at the antenna-isulation down here in the shack.. now I fixed the problem and will be transmitting from 1200 UTC to at least 1400 UTC (probably 1500 UTC) with 30 seconds dotlength on 137.690 (+/- some Hz)... Would be nice to receive any reports.. My ERP is very low, in the order of 10mW ... vy 73, Fabian dj1yfk (JO32QG) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16839 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2001 11:25:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO guinness.servers.plus.net) (212.159.3.230) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 11:25:45 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 2700 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2001 11:10:35 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from post.thorcom.com (212.172.148.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 11:10:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15x4sN-0006CS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 12:10:11 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15x4sM-0006CN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 12:10:10 +0100 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id MAA22344; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 12:17:21 +0100 (BST) Received: (qmail 564 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2001 12:01:41 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 12:01:41 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id LAA09175; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 11:37:57 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma009161; Fri, 26 Oct 01 11:37:35 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 12:12:26 +0100 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <496ZD563>; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 12:07:38 +0100 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C605@PDW-MAIL-R1> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: What is it? Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 12:07:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: A search tree such as that suggested would generally be used for searching multiple complex inter-related data. For the small set of symbols covered here here, a direct addressed parallel memory based approach may be better. I suggest using a few memory cells technology based on an organo - chemical storage medium. Interfacing to the individual cells can be made with low level electrical signals; such as those that may be generated by, for example, dual stereoscopic visual or audio sensors. Programming the memory can be difficult, often write times are measured in weeks and in some cases even years, but once programmed can usualy be regarded as non-volatile provided several refresh cycles are made from time to time. Read time is variable and often depends on time of day, the total number of read cycles ever made over the life span, and the age of the memory cells. Andy 'JNT > ... no excuses, using the attached "Morse-Code-Chart" (hope > the 13 kB jpeg > makes it through the reflector ...), you can look up each individual > letter, probably not at 25 wpm, but at the usual speeds on LF, and > especially using Slow-CW (remember: LF-Enthusiasts do it > extremely slow!). > 73 > > Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) > > P.S.: My best guess of those curves were that it was some > brain-current > activity of some mentally pretty unhealthy person ... > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15650 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2001 10:40:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO guinness.servers.plus.net) (212.159.3.230) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 10:40:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 705 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2001 10:25:20 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (212.172.148.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 10:25:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15x4IY-000641-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 11:33:10 +0100 Received: from siaag1af.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.8]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15x4IV-00063v-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 11:33:07 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1af.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id GAA14301 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 06:32:24 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 06:32:10 -0400 From: "Holger 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: Re: LF: What is it? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200110260632_MC3-E4B9-B1F5@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------090800040001040005090501" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090800040001040005090501 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Walter, >When my Morse receive abilities are good enough to follow >25 wpm! I haven't used Morse for 30 years. >(stand by for a blast from you-know-who) > >Walter G3JKV< ... no excuses, using the attached "Morse-Code-Chart" (hope the 13 kB jpeg makes it through the reflector ...), you can look up each individual letter, probably not at 25 wpm, but at the usual speeds on LF, and especially using Slow-CW (remember: LF-Enthusiasts do it extremely slow!). 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) P.S.: My best guess of those curves were that it was some brain-current activity of some mentally pretty unhealthy person ... --------------090800040001040005090501 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="morse.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="morse.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQAAAQABAAD/2wBDAP////////////////////////////////////// ////////////////////////////////////////////////2wBDAf////////////////// ////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////wAAR CAHgBBIDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA 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FABRRRQAUhAIwaWigCPYfXj/AD2p20YA9KdRQAhGaAABgUtFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAU UUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFF ABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUh5BFLRQA1RgU6iig AoopKAFooooAKRhkYpaKAIcMOOce3SnquOT1/pT6KACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKK KACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigA ooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKK KACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigA ooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKK KACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigA ooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKK KACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACk/wA/ 5/z/APWWigAooooAKKKKAP/Z --------------090800040001040005090501-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3115 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2001 10:31:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 10:31:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 13422 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2001 10:28:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys.services.quay.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 10:28:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15x4A4-00060E-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 11:24:24 +0100 Received: from lycee.ns.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15x4A2-000609-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 11:24:22 +0100 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-18-107.easynet.co.uk [212.134.224.107]) by lycee.ns.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A71E2A894 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 11:20:48 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <004301c15e09$b9bef260$6be086d4@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011025210142.009f8930@mail.pncl.co.uk> <5.0.2.1.2.20011026101213.00a00ad0@mail.pncl.co.uk> Subject: Re: LF: What is it? Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 11:33:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >........................................................................... ..... Ideally these >transmissions should be in the 'test' area of the agreed band plan below 136.0. Tut tut Walter, you are in trouble with the 136kHz police >The wobbly osc should be cured soon (why does an osc wobble when >it's got three buffers between it and the load?) I used a signal generator with lots of buffering in the early days of 136kHz. Although to was fine for CW it produced worm shaped traces on QRSS. I think it was caused by RF feedback. I am not using my crystal mixer exciter (which has been replaced with a DDS unit) which you are welcome to. This is fine for normal QRSS but has a +/- 2Hz long term drift, which made it unsuitable for transatlantic stuff Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24246 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2001 10:27:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO guinness.servers.plus.net) (212.159.3.230) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 10:27:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21506 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2001 10:12:27 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (212.172.148.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 10:12:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15x44x-0005yZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 11:19:07 +0100 Received: from kuku-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.63] helo=kuku.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15x44v-0005yS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 11:19:06 +0100 Received: from goatee.excite.com ([199.172.157.31]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20011026101752.NEKY22601.kuku.excite.com@goatee.excite.com> for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 03:17:52 -0700 Message-ID: <1555301.1004091472228.JavaMail.imail@goatee.excite.com> Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 03:17:51 -0700 (PDT) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: What is it? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender-Ip: 213.104.148.43 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Walter again, If you class it as data, you can use frequencies above 137.1 to keep in with the INFORMAL band plan. 73, John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ http://inbox.excite.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10865 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2001 10:25:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO guinness.servers.plus.net) (212.159.3.230) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 10:25:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 19772 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2001 10:09:52 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (212.172.148.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 10:09:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15x3z1-0005y8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 11:12:59 +0100 Received: from ewey-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.191] helo=ewey.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15x3z0-0005y1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 11:12:58 +0100 Received: from goatee.excite.com ([199.172.157.31]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20011026101142.NMIA25765.ewey.excite.com@goatee.excite.com> for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 03:11:42 -0700 Message-ID: <5135654.1004091102361.JavaMail.imail@goatee.excite.com> Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 03:11:41 -0700 (PDT) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: What is it? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender-Ip: 213.104.148.43 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Walter, I thought it was some new type of data transmission, which I always find intriguing. My ERP calculated from reports and the formula Dick, PA0SE, gave some time ago is at most a few milliwatts, so I guess I too am in the QRP class, yet I managed a QSO with Geri, DK8KW, at more than 700 km using 10 second dot QRSS. QRSS has a lot going for it and it might be possible to get a lot further yet even with QRP. Transatlantic??? Will be interested in what you achieve. 73, John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ http://inbox.excite.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12623 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2001 09:27:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO guinness.servers.plus.net) (212.159.3.230) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 09:27:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24380 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2001 09:13:11 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (212.172.148.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 09:13:11 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15x38N-0005og-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 10:18:35 +0100 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15x38M-0005ob-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 10:18:34 +0100 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (72.235.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.235.72]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f9Q9Hr832411 for ; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 10:17:53 +0100 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011026101213.00a00ad0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 10:18:27 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: Re: LF: What is it? In-reply-to: <000501c15dee$4f2e0460$ae6501d5@dave> References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011025210142.009f8930@mail.pncl.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit At 08:17 26/10/01 Friday, G3YMC wrote:
................................................................................ Ideally these
transmissions should be in the 'test' area of the agreed band plan below 136.0.

Problem is I'm using the MB7LF relay for seeing what happens and
it doesn't relay sigs below 136 very well (pace Derek!).

The wobbly osc should be cured soon (why does an osc wobble when
it's got three buffers between it and the load?)

When are you going to come on and work all of us Walter?

When my Morse receive abilities are good enough to follow
25 wpm!  I haven't used Morse for 30 years.
(stand by for a blast from you-know-who)

Walter G3JKV
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7287 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2001 07:28:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 07:28:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 26248 invoked from network); 26 Oct 2001 07:26:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Oct 2001 07:26:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15x1EW-0005VO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 08:16:48 +0100 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15x1EU-0005VJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 08:16:46 +0100 Received: from [213.1.101.174] (helo=dave) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15x1Dp-0006jg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 26 Oct 2001 08:16:06 +0100 Message-ID: <000501c15dee$4f2e0460$ae6501d5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011025210142.009f8930@mail.pncl.co.uk> Subject: Re: LF: What is it? Date: Fri, 26 Oct 2001 08:17:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3JKV wrote: >Could have been me, John. >I was testing a new variometer I've made about that time I also heard Walter's wobbly carriers around that time - no need for argo for this, they were s7 at least. Noting that Walter's 'qrp 500mW' signals have been heard 559 in Devon (and 599 here) it is worth remembering that such low power does indeed get out quite a long way, and you never know who is listening (I monitor all the time). Ideally these transmissions should be in the 'test' area of the agreed band plan below 136.0. When are you going to come on and work all of us Walter? 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6992 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 20:14:01 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 20:14:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17077 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 20:13:46 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 20:13:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wqoN-00046M-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 21:09:07 +0100 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wqoM-00046H-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 21:09:06 +0100 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (132.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.132]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f9PK8QC31826 for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 21:08:27 +0100 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011025210142.009f8930@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 21:08:30 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: Re: LF: What is it? In-reply-to: <3955434.1004027444699.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp0 5> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 17:30 25/10/01 Thursday, G4CNN wrote: >Hi All, >Image captured with Argo at 16.24 UTC using 3 second dots on a frequency >just below 136.5 kHz. >Any guesses? >John, G4CNN Could have been me, John. I was testing a new variometer I've made about that time and although I wasn't sending QRSS it might have looked like it. The old sig gen I use wobbles when the load changes. Surprised it radiated enough to get to you. Going to do something about it because I want to do some very low power QRSS tests. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16140 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 18:05:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 18:05:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 2882 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 18:04:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 18:04:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wopf-0003lY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 19:02:19 +0100 Received: from antiochus-fe0.ultra.net ([146.115.8.188]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wope-0003lN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 19:02:18 +0100 Received: from comrex (d11.dial-5.cmb.ma.ultra.net [209.6.68.11]) by antiochus-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n20340/mtc.v2) with SMTP id OAA22778 for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 14:01:30 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00c301c15d7f$2873ec00$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3955434.1004027444699.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> Subject: LF: Re: What is it? Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 14:01:35 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Image captured with Argo at 16.24 UTC using 3 second dots on a frequency just below 136.5 kHz. > Any guesses? A highly compressed crop circle? John, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5268 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 18:02:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 18:02:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26792 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 17:59:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 17:59:59 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15woje-0003ix-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 18:56:06 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wojd-0003is-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 18:56:05 +0100 Received: from ldsas03-67-118-52.cw-visp.com ([212.137.118.52] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15woZq-0005sB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 17:45:59 +0000 Message-ID: <3BD843FF.3FC2390A@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 17:55:27 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: cfh Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Carrier again this morning at 0900z on 137 khz. Weak about S2 at present. I suppose it could be anyone testing. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12474 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 16:54:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 16:54:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5788 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 16:51:40 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 16:51:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wnQi-0003UK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 17:32:28 +0100 Received: from [204.202.140.199] (helo=gomailmta-bc.seamail.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wnQe-0003UF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 17:32:25 +0100 Received: from gomailjtp05 ([10.212.0.165]) by mta07.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GLR00DL3SJ5FP@mta07.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 09:30:41 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 09:30:44 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Sexton" Subject: LF: What is it? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <3955434.1004027444699.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------020104040508090303080903" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020104040508090303080903 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi All, Image captured with Argo at 16.24 UTC using 3 second dots on a frequency just below 136.5 kHz. Any guesses? 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RgUYS561xYKoV03TJVm0AnyGDECCdOoJ5MkPZ/AssBYFTRyYcVIZpFWAX9WUQLt6UjWAZrdW fYEHWCIHuRazjfw0Lp4qMKaxWvQF/JiLAUL71TktlbHBEte7ABBSAR7scrX9obZSQgHnEhQr AdkGr6xalukBZW9WHU6FfPTH+FJLCc2YLpXK81H4RpJh4WPqa3ciT3oA065XmsV5rKqAwowF G+YNL6UWltOVchJiuCCIFo1rNih8JwHh3eja3iuO6d5mEmeA1TV7FSAfu/QBu9mlYQ67SlRW laJJbUirumi6I/N6sw1Qq8VYlYSGquznmrCilID7sOGrQkWMTxorDOwmh6rIFWBGcS2CSZBU nUnkBnZdCoLs5qX4qlTI3kNyfwGBsrGeFIVo2A8BYDyJOTQIMXPGWcnQes21xbSS5vVfJYQR s/82a5I5BqoLGsqM8ZgYm2FxF3FD68SZbGK6z2NLMuDQ5Oml5z4HsC8HmAEaAjCDBWOd6Owm KstWQ7WOHTkwmHsRAQAAOw== --------------020104040508090303080903-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9889 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 15:47:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 15:47:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 2835 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 15:47:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 15:47:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wmgD-0003Jt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 16:44:25 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wmgC-0003Jo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 16:44:24 +0100 Received: from [213.122.216.192] (helo=dave) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15wmfW-0004Ay-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 16:43:42 +0100 Message-ID: <000f01c15d6c$0d1f70e0$c0d87ad5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" References: <5428064.1004012702949.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> Subject: LF: Re: Re: QRSS transmissions Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 16:39:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G4CNN wrote: >I will have to postpone any further QRSS transmissions until further notice, while I >try to sort out why there were 10 cms of water inside the loading coil, when I >checked it this morning, despite everything being double covered! Perhaps I am lucky, or it is another of the 'YMC good ideas. I mount my loading coil inside a standard plastic dustbin, the right way up, and with its normal lid. Wires and feeder are fed via suitably sized small holes. I just checked and it is absolutely dry inside (including the wad of paper holding the concentric buckets in the right place) despite torrential rain over the past couple of days. I believe John uses his dustbin in the inverted position - there are no snails inside my dustbin either! 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15125 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 15:19:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 15:19:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 7108 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 15:17:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 15:17:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wm14-0003Cm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 16:01:54 +0100 Received: from cmailenv2.svr.pol.co.uk ([213.218.77.54]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wm12-0003Cg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 16:01:53 +0100 Received: from [62.21.148.117] (helo=w8k3f0) by cmailENV2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15wm0L-0002Aa-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 15:01:10 +0000 Message-ID: <001201c15d67$84efb080$7594153e@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: Re: Loading coils and shorted turns Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 17:08:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To All from PA0SE Dear OM, Of my loading coil about 1/5 is shortcircuited. Leaving it open makes no difference in aerial current. There could be some difference in coil losses of course but the effect of this is diluted by the much larger earth resistance in series. Measuring Q, as Rik did, could show a difference, if any. 73, Dick, PA0SE ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- Van: Claudio Girardi Aan: Verzonden: donderdag 25 oktober 2001 9:46 Onderwerp: LF: Re: Loading coils and shorted turns > In an attempt to gain some insight on the > behaviour of coils with shorted turns I tried > the mathematical way and this is what I found > (hope it is correct...): > > Said > L1 = inductance of the first inductor, R1 = its series resistance (losses), > L2 = inductance of the second inductor, R2 = its series resistance > k = coefficient of coupling between the two, > (L1 and L2 can be two parts of the same coil or can be two distinct > coils, it doesn't matter) > when the second inductor is shorted the inductance > seen at the terminals of the first is > > L1s = L1 * (1 - k^2) > > and the losses > > R1s = R1 + k^2 * (L1 / L2) * R2 > > ...well, I'm not sure abot what can be inferred from these formulas, > but it seems that the losses will surely increase (and the inductance > obviously will go down) so the Q will be lower with the turns shorted. > How much lower depends (strangely enough, hi) on the amount of turns > shorted (L2, R2) and on the coefficient of coupling between the coils > (coils or turns spacing). This doesn't take into account any variation > in losses due to different proximity effects / distributed capacitance > with the second coil shorted. > > By the way this suggest a (well known) method to measure the coupling > of two high Q coils: measure the inductance of the first coil (i.e. L1) > then short the second coil and measure the inductance at the terminal > of the first coil (i.e. L1s), then the coefficient of coupling > k is the square root of (1 - L1s / L1) > > Hope this helps... > > 73 de IN3OTD, Claudio > -- > in3otd@qsl.net http://www.qsl.net/in3otd/ > > Peter wrote: > > Yes. If you look at the coil design by Dick, PA0SE on the front cover of > > LFEH he uses taps every 10 turns at one end of the coil and a tap every > > single turn at the other thereby having an incremental one tap per turn for > > over the whole coil length. See the description of an earlier version on > > page 62. Dick shorts out the unused turns. > > > > Another method is to use the G3YMC coupled bucket variable coil. (I like > > this idea of Dave's). I have used this method using coupled bins on 73kHz. > > > > Regards, > > Peter, G3LDO > > > > e-mail > > > > Web > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20645 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 14:57:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 14:57:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 16807 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 14:54:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 14:54:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wloa-00038K-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 15:49:00 +0100 Received: from mail2.globocabo.com.br ([200.231.181.97] helo=ntweb.globocabo.com.br) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wloY-00038F-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 15:48:59 +0100 Received: from spovdesi1625 (5.8.11.192 [5.8.11.192]) by ntweb.globocabo.com.br with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id VTKJ2TYJ; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 12:29:52 -0300 Message-ID: <003101c15d6a$d5733ba0$c00b0805@globocabo.com.br> From: "PY3CRX PY2PLL" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20011025082824.2bd702ae@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: Re: LF: CFH? Dumb Question Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 13:36:33 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi ... Thanks for all that answered. I saw a steady carrier with slow QSB all night long at 137.043. No rtty or may be it was just idle. VTX3, GBR, WWVB, NAA, NAM etc were strong too. The European/African LW BCs dead. An MSK on 104.750KHz. Two days ago, all signals bellow 150KHz was booming, several MSKs, TTY, etc et al. Added some new utilities to my log and tried to catch the Alpha network. The german signal on 77.5 was not found. ZVES on 82Hz detected . . . 73 Marcus PY3CRX/PY2PLL S. B. do Campo - GG66rf http://py.qsl.br Active from "DC" to 24GHz From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 753 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 13:54:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO guinness.servers.plus.net) (212.159.3.230) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 13:54:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 15440 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 13:39:14 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (212.172.148.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 13:39:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wkis-0002vk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 14:39:02 +0100 Received: from mail4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.211]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wkir-0002vf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 14:39:01 +0100 Received: from modem-110.dernhelm.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.154.110] helo=g3aqc) by mail4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15wkiC-00080X-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 14:38:20 +0100 Message-ID: <000201c15d5a$dbef08c0$6e9a883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. Beacon Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 14:40:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi John and all, Thanks for listening,I shall run the beacon for the next few nights. Conditions were really quite good yesterday, Kp index very low,pity about the static. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24629 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 13:04:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO guinness.servers.plus.net) (212.159.3.230) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 13:04:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 6996 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 12:48:50 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (212.172.148.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 12:48:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wk00-0002mD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 13:52:40 +0100 Received: from antiochus-fe0.ultra.net ([146.115.8.188]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wjzy-0002m8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 13:52:38 +0100 Received: from comrex (d11.dial-5.cmb.ma.ultra.net [209.6.68.11]) by antiochus-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n20340/mtc.v2) with SMTP id IAA14017 for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:51:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000f01c15d53$e7eb22a0$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000901c15cc6$4601fd20$53b2883e@g3aqc> Subject: LF: Re: Re. 73kHz Beacon Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:51:58 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Laurie, > Since conditions may be improving I will run the Beacon tonight. > Frequency as usual 71.921.5kHz. Starting 2200 utc. Any report welcome. Extremely noisy here last night due to wx. Things are expected to be quieter (and unfortunately a lot colder!) from Friday through the weekend. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1415 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 12:40:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO guinness.servers.plus.net) (212.159.3.230) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 12:40:19 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 14095 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 12:27:21 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (212.172.148.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 12:27:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wjbq-0002hN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 13:27:42 +0100 Received: from [204.202.140.198] (helo=gomailmta-bc.seamail.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wjbo-0002hH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 13:27:41 +0100 Received: from gomailjtp05 ([10.212.0.165]) by mta06.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GLR00EIQH5NVX@mta06.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 05:24:59 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 05:25:02 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Sexton" Subject: LF: Re: QRSS transmissions To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <5428064.1004012702949.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, I will have to postpone any further QRSS transmissions until further notice, while I try to sort out why there were 10 cms of water inside the loading coil, when I checked it this morning, despite everything being double covered! This is a constant battle for me. Good job I never thought of becoming a plumber (klempner),hi! I remember some years ago hammering in some good sized nails to stop creaky boards and going right through water pipes in several places. We didn't find out until the following morning, when we came down to find water dripping from the ceiling. Normal service will be resumed as soon as possible. 73, John, G4CNN ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24856 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 11:50:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 11:50:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28847 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 11:47:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 11:47:46 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wivz-0002VW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 12:44:27 +0100 Received: from mailout03.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.81] helo=mailout03.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wivx-0002VO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 12:44:26 +0100 Received: from fwd02.sul.t-online.de by mailout03.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 15wivA-00021R-0A; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 13:43:36 +0200 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.156.6.190]) by fwd02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 15wiv2-0QcAUaC; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 13:43:28 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <151.2bf4d22.290284a6@aol.com> Subject: Re: LF: dcf39 X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 13:43:28 +0200 Message-ID: <15wiv2-0QcAUaC@fwd02.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: DL4YHF@aol.com schrieb: > Hello Uwe and group, > > About the "mysterious"(?) carrier observed on DCF/DBF (I think DBF is their > spare transmitter): > As Uwe wrote: > > >sri, Markus, but the screenshot does`nt convince me. > >sri, Wolfgang, I do not belief in "Kohärenzprobleme". > > > In a direct mail to Uwe I called it "non-coherent signal", but it meant > exactly the same as Markus (DF6NM) explained here on the reflector a few > hours later. I don't think there is any mysterious very-narrow-bandwidth > coding. > > DCF39 is intended to be received by simple receivers; and the transmitter > simply does not care for a coherent carrier just because a few radio amateurs > would like to use it as a high-precision reference (hi). > > > The reason for the incoherent carrier signal maybe this (with my basic > knowledge ): > Switching from the "space" frequency to the "mark" frequency in the TX is > done when the carrier signal Y(t) crosses zero. After an integer number of > full sine wave periods (when Y(t) is zero again), the frequency is switched > back again. This will not necessarily be the old phase of the "space" > frequency before a data bit. So, as an effect, there is no coherent phase - > as explained before. > > You could verify this with an audio phase meter. I did this some time ago and > could see the phase meter jump around after every pulse train, but could not > find a rule. Maybe the amount of phase shift is simply a result of the count > of "ones" in the databits. > > > > I will see my friends at the Radio-Monitoring-Station Itzehoe > > (RegTP-Aussenstelle) to solve the problem (I make it my problem) > > by analysing the frequenzy using their equipment (I have been > > member of the staff). > > Please let me know the results. > > Good luck, > Wolf DL4YHF > > (now off to look for Dave G(M)3YXM in simple CW without coherence problems. > No kite-friendly WX here at the moment, nothing but blue sky and sun) Hi Markus, Wolf, Ko es All. meantime I have been with my friends at the Radio-Monitoring-Station. usually we measure the qrg of an A-null by comparing it with a qrg-normal (caesium standard) using the lissajou figur. but the figur did not come to a standstill measuring the mark of DCF39. my friends did analyse the mark: it is constantly 10Hz A2-modulated (sinus) and constantly 45dgr Phase-modulated. no parts of FM. I emphasize "constant", i.e. not in the least influenced by the FSK-bursts. during the 20 min of analysing no keying observed. my friends did analyse on front IF level (no filter) of the receiving equipment (Rhode & Schwarz). it is impossible analysing it on audio level. the results wld be incorrect. there we are. regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20342 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 11:49:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 11:49:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29035 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 11:47:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 11:47:55 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wivu-0002VP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 12:44:22 +0100 Received: from mailout03.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.81] helo=mailout03.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wivt-0002VJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 12:44:21 +0100 Received: from fwd02.sul.t-online.de by mailout03.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 15wivA-00021R-0D; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 13:43:36 +0200 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.156.6.190]) by fwd02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 15wiv5-0QcAUbC; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 13:43:31 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.5.32.20011025070448.0091d570@pop3.esoterica.pt> Subject: Re: LF: Bearing on signal X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 13:43:31 +0200 Message-ID: <15wiv5-0QcAUbC@fwd02.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Brian Rogerson schrieb: > I would be most grateful if someone could give me a bearing on the > signal on 136.00KHz. > > 73, Brian > 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W > http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian > > Hi Brian, no signal on 136.00 kHz here in jo43sv. regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6076 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 11:43:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 11:43:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 22988 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 11:42:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 11:42:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wint-0002Tf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 12:36:05 +0100 Received: from tomts15.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.3] helo=tomts15-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15winr-0002Ta-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 12:36:04 +0100 Received: from server1 ([216.209.138.13]) by tomts15-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20011025113448.WQUR19401.tomts15-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 07:34:48 -0400 Message-ID: <001b01c15d49$0455c450$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C5FA@PDW-MAIL-R1> Subject: LF: Re: CFH?not so Dumb Question Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 07:34:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andy es group > Turn the question round a bit and think outside our amateur radio world... Is this really a discussion we want to have when we are trying to get an agreement for sharing so that VE's can have an LF band? > Why do the Canadian Navy need to transmit on 137kHz ? "Need" has nothing to do with it. They have the facility and they use it. > What does a broadcast on this frequency offer that either HF or satellite > comms cannot supply ? A lot when it comes to communications with aircraft at very high latitudes, submarines, etc. > Could it be for high latitude operations ? First, if this is a subject for discussion I would most certainly appreciate it being taken off line. Second, this signal when it is available has provided us with excellent propagation study resource which has helped us see the potential of getting over the North Atlantic. The aparent carrier frequency is 137.04n, where n seems to change a bit from time to time. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25462 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 11:06:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO guinness.servers.plus.net) (212.159.3.230) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 11:06:03 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 886 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 10:50:45 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (212.172.148.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 10:50:45 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wi3Q-0002KR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 11:48:04 +0100 Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wi3P-0002KM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 11:48:03 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v4.0.0.R) for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 11:41:32 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 11:41:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Re: Loading coils and shorted turns Message-ID: <3BD7FA69.27653.8B5C60@localhost> In-reply-to: X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: A factor to be taken into account when deciding whether to have shorted turns or an open coil is the possible corona discharge from an open end. This will also introduce losses. For a fixed station (portable is different as the antenna characteristics are difficult to predict) I would suggest a coil that is just too short, followed by a variometer. Of course this needs some experimentation, but during the experimental period it doesn't really matter whether the turns are shorted or open. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19218 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 10:27:22 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO guinness.servers.plus.net) (212.159.3.230) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 10:27:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5510 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 10:13:18 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from post.thorcom.com (212.172.148.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 10:13:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15whVz-0002DV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 11:13:31 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15whVy-0002DQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 11:13:30 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id MAA684256 for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 12:12:49 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20011025111055.30b73c28@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 11:10:55 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: CFH?not so Dumb Question In-reply-to: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C5FA@PDW-MAIL-R1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 09:13 25/10/01 +0100, you wrote: >Why do the Canadian Navy need to transmit on 137kHz ? >What does a broadcast on this frequency offer that either HF or satellite >comms cannot supply ? Probably nothing, but I assume that the military likes to have alternative ways of communication in case one way fails. So most likely they just want to keep their frequency occupied (use it or loose it). 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10847 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 10:24:10 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 10:24:10 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29374 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 10:22:48 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 10:22:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15whTq-0002DH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 11:11:18 +0100 Received: from tlvsca.vim.tlt.alcatel.it ([194.243.74.245]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15whTo-0002DC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 11:11:17 +0100 Received: from tlvk7v (tlvk7v.vim.tlt.alcatel.it [151.98.40.9]) by tlvsca.vim.tlt.alcatel.it (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA05964 for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 12:08:17 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:46:02 +0100 From: "Claudio Girardi" Subject: LF: Re: Loading coils and shorted turns To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Mailer: Z-Mail Pro 6.2, NetManage Inc. [ZM62_16H] X-Priority: 3 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In an attempt to gain some insight on the behaviour of coils with shorted turns I tried the mathematical way and this is what I found (hope it is correct...): Said L1 = inductance of the first inductor, R1 = its series resistance (losses), L2 = inductance of the second inductor, R2 = its series resistance k = coefficient of coupling between the two, (L1 and L2 can be two parts of the same coil or can be two distinct coils, it doesn't matter) when the second inductor is shorted the inductance seen at the terminals of the first is L1s = L1 * (1 - k^2) and the losses R1s = R1 + k^2 * (L1 / L2) * R2 ...well, I'm not sure abot what can be inferred from these formulas, but it seems that the losses will surely increase (and the inductance obviously will go down) so the Q will be lower with the turns shorted. How much lower depends (strangely enough, hi) on the amount of turns shorted (L2, R2) and on the coefficient of coupling between the coils (coils or turns spacing). This doesn't take into account any variation in losses due to different proximity effects / distributed capacitance with the second coil shorted. By the way this suggest a (well known) method to measure the coupling of two high Q coils: measure the inductance of the first coil (i.e. L1) then short the second coil and measure the inductance at the terminal of the first coil (i.e. L1s), then the coefficient of coupling k is the square root of (1 - L1s / L1) Hope this helps... 73 de IN3OTD, Claudio -- in3otd@qsl.net http://www.qsl.net/in3otd/ Peter wrote: > Yes. If you look at the coil design by Dick, PA0SE on the front cover of > LFEH he uses taps every 10 turns at one end of the coil and a tap every > single turn at the other thereby having an incremental one tap per turn for > over the whole coil length. See the description of an earlier version on > page 62. Dick shorts out the unused turns. > > Another method is to use the G3YMC coupled bucket variable coil. (I like > this idea of Dave's). I have used this method using coupled bins on 73kHz. > > Regards, > Peter, G3LDO > > e-mail > > Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17452 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 08:27:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 08:27:57 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 19730 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 08:25:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 08:25:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wfgj-0001s7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 09:16:29 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wfgh-0001s2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 09:16:28 +0100 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id JAA02787; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 09:23:31 +0100 (BST) Received: (qmail 27473 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 09:07:54 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 09:07:54 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id IAA16328; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:44:17 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma016324; Thu, 25 Oct 01 08:43:50 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 09:18:30 +0100 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <496ZDNT9>; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 09:13:44 +0100 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C5FA@PDW-MAIL-R1> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: CFH?not so Dumb Question Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 09:13:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Turn the question round a bit and think outside our amateur radio world... Why do the Canadian Navy need to transmit on 137kHz ? What does a broadcast on this frequency offer that either HF or satellite comms cannot supply ? Could it be for high latitude operations ? Andy G4JNT > It probably is the Canadian Navy station CFH. It runs rather high power (I > believe 10-100kW in the past), > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25762 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 07:47:55 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 07:47:55 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1860 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 07:45:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 07:45:27 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15weyl-0001iU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:31:03 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15weyj-0001iP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:31:02 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA144652 for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 09:30:19 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20011025082824.2bd702ae@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:28:24 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: CFH? Dumb Question In-reply-to: <010401c15cd3$cafcbb20$628fc9c8@P800> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Marcus, It probably is the Canadian Navy station CFH. It runs rather high power (I believe 10-100kW in the past), so expect any VE ham signals to be at least 40-50dB weaker. >From my experience last winter the VE ham QRSS or DFCW signals can be copied when CFH is at least coming in with 30dB SNR. 73, Rik ON7YD At 19:34 24/10/01 -0200, you wrote: >Hi ... > >What this carrier is? An amateur signal or an utility station? Is the freq >exactly 137KHz? > >73 >Marcus, PY3CRX/PY2PLL >GG66rf >http://py.qsl.br >Active from "DC" to 24GHz > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21020 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 07:24:25 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 07:24:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 193 invoked from network); 25 Oct 2001 07:21:57 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Oct 2001 07:21:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15webJ-0001fe-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:06:49 +0100 Received: from rhun.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.26]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15webG-0001fZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:06:47 +0100 Received: from srv17slx.esoterica.pt (srv17slx.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.47]) by rhun.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f9P764M24402 for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:06:04 +0100 (WEST) Received: from slave-6 (por344.esoterica.pt [195.22.18.44]) by srv17slx.esoterica.pt (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id f9P763N11414 for ; Thu, 25 Oct 2001 08:06:04 +0100 (WET DST) Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20011025070448.0091d570@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 25 Oct 2001 07:04:48 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: LF: Bearing on signal MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I would be most grateful if someone could give me a bearing on the signal on 136.00KHz. 73, Brian 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5804 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 22:25:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 22:25:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 21832 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 22:24:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 22:24:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wWJj-0000Jh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 23:16:07 +0100 Received: from chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net ([212.135.1.67]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wWJh-0000Jc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 23:16:06 +0100 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-6-108.easynet.co.uk [195.40.201.108]) by chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 214571D53C5 for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 23:15:16 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <000701c15cdb$3160b860$6cc928c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <15c.2dc164f.29063b17@aol.com> <000701c15b9d$28eedb60$3100a8c0@martin> <002001c15cb8$64595b00$49c928c3@ericadodd> Subject: LF: Web site Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 23:27:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Some of you may recall that I promised to put a digest of past technical stuff from the LF reflector before it evaporated through passage of time. This went on hold during the production of the Amateur Radio Mobile book. Now this is complete I have made a start again - over 600 e-mails to sift through! Added to the website now is a discussion on the best (and worst) receivers for LF Any additions and corrections you may think of can easily be added. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21115 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 22:21:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 22:21:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 14768 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 22:18:42 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 22:18:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wWH9-0000JY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 23:13:27 +0100 Received: from tomts14.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.35] helo=tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wWH7-0000JS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 23:13:26 +0100 Received: from [64.229.23.11] by tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20011024221209.IPIX3059.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@[64.229.23.11]> for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 18:12:09 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 18:13:56 -0400 Subject: Re: LF: CFH? Dumb Question From: "Mitch Powell" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: In-reply-to: <010401c15cd3$cafcbb20$628fc9c8@P800> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > > What this carrier is? An amateur signal or an utility station? Is the freq > exactly 137KHz? > > 73 > Marcus, PY3CRX/PY2PLL > GG66rf > http://py.qsl.br > Active from "DC" to 24GHz Check out DK8KW web site with description at: http://www.qru.de/cfh-beacon.html also very detailed pictures and info on DFC39, etc. 73 Mitch VE3OT From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27632 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 21:44:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 21:44:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 1128 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 21:42:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 21:42:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wVhO-0000C9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 22:36:30 +0100 Received: from mail.ifx.com.br ([200.201.133.66] helo=mail01.ifx.com.br) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wVhL-0000Bz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 22:36:28 +0100 Received: (qmail 28235 invoked by uid 505); 24 Oct 2001 21:34:34 -0000 Received: from py2pll@py.qsl.br by mail01.ifx.com.br with qmail-scanner-0.96 (. Clean. Processed in 0.324929 secs); 24 Oct 2001 21:34:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO P800) (200.201.143.98) by mail01.ifx.com.br with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 21:34:34 -0000 Message-ID: <010401c15cd3$cafcbb20$628fc9c8@P800> From: "PY3CRX PY2PLL" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: CFH? Dumb Question Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 19:34:18 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi ... What this carrier is? An amateur signal or an utility station? Is the freq exactly 137KHz? 73 Marcus, PY3CRX/PY2PLL GG66rf http://py.qsl.br Active from "DC" to 24GHz From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21197 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 20:01:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 20:01:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 20366 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 19:59:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 19:59:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wU7c-0008Ph-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 20:55:28 +0100 Received: from cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.173]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wU7a-0008Pb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 20:55:27 +0100 Received: from modem-83.elbereth.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.178.83] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15wU6t-00083k-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 20:54:44 +0100 Message-ID: <000901c15cc6$4601fd20$53b2883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. 73kHz Beacon Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 20:57:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Since conditions may be improving I will run the Beacon tonight. Frequency as usual 71.921.5kHz. Starting 2200 utc. Any report welcome. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18309 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 18:49:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 18:49:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23938 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 18:46:38 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 18:46:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wSyx-0008Ak-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 19:42:27 +0100 Received: from tomts11.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.55] helo=tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wSyu-0008AJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 19:42:25 +0100 Received: from [64.228.131.119] by tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20011024184100.OUJS17332.tomts11-srv.bellnexxia.net@[64.228.131.119]> for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 14:41:00 -0400 User-Agent: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 5.01 (1630) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 14:42:48 -0400 Subject: Re: LF: CFH? From: "Mitch Powell" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: In-reply-to: <001b01c15c68$01f6f300$1e557ad5@dave> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > This morning I heard an unmodulated carrier around 137.0 which may mean the > return of > CFH. I didn't listen until around 0630z however, by which time it was well > down the > dawn fade. Can Larry or the other VEs confirm its return, or am I hearing > something > else? > > 73s Dave G3YMC At 1845Z (1445 EDT) also copying S6 carrier on 137. Distance London, Ontario (EN93) to Halifax is approximately 900 mi ( 1430 km ). Heavy QRN from storms both East and West of QTH at the same time. 73 Mitch VE3OT From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13738 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 18:44:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 18:44:30 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18238 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 18:42:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 18:42:02 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wSuk-00088q-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 19:38:06 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wSui-00088l-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 19:38:05 +0100 Received: from ldsas05-69-120-151.cw-visp.com ([212.137.120.151] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15wSkv-0000Sx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 18:27:58 +0000 Message-ID: <3BD6FBF4.CBE5BB94@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 18:35:48 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: CFH BACK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Further to my msg earlier. The signal on 137 khz this morning was S9 and around midday was down to S6. then it was absent late afternoon, it is audible again when I checked the band at 1820 utc it is S5 Possibly during the night and early morning it will be roaring into Scarborough. A couple of my inv L antennas do favour this direction. A good chance to have a qso across the Atlantic if anyone was suitably equipped to work normal hand send CW in VE/W. The above observations were made aurally and not by any visual means. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24476 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 18:43:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 18:43:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16763 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 18:40:33 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 18:40:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wSsS-000882-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 19:35:44 +0100 Received: from siaag2ae.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.135]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wSsQ-00087v-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 19:35:43 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2ae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id OAA29768 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 14:34:59 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 14:34:09 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: QRSS transmissions To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200110241434_MC3-E465-8342@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John, >Had a nice QSO this afternoon with Geri, DK8KW, using 10 second dots. His sigs OOO, mine MMM. >Actually his signals were audible here. >All reports are welcome and further QSOs hoped for. ... if you want to see how your signal arrived here, have another look at http://www.qru.de/g4cnn.html, at the end your signal even improved. Thanks for the nice QSO over 756 km and the nice report you gave me! I also enjoyed our QSO very much, and my two daughters (Anina is 8, Jana is 11 years old) also copied your dots and dashes on the computer screen using a Morse-code table. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23860 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 18:31:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 18:31:10 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 2139 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 18:28:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 18:28:43 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wSbY-00081w-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 19:18:16 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wSbX-00081r-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 19:18:15 +0100 Received: from ldsas07-71-122-24.cw-visp.com ([212.137.122.24] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15wSRj-0006cS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 18:08:08 +0000 Message-ID: <3BD6F7AE.6A42B70E@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 18:17:34 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: CFH Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I suppose the strong carrier that I heard nearly all day on 137 khz was CFH. It was very strong during the morning and got weaker during the afternoon. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29818 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 18:27:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 18:27:40 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27808 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 18:25:12 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 18:25:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wSTr-00081N-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 19:10:19 +0100 Received: from [204.202.140.199] (helo=gomailmta-bc.seamail.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wSTp-00081I-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 19:10:17 +0100 Received: from gomailjtp05 ([10.212.0.165]) by mta07.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GLQ00IQS2DSIW@mta07.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 11:08:16 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 11:08:20 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Sexton" Subject: LF: QRSS transmissions To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <855726.1003946900103.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, I am sending slow morse on 137.700 kHz each weekday. >From 15.00 to 16.00 at 3 second dot lengths. >From 16.00 to 18.00 at 10 second dot lengths. Had a nice QSO this afternoon with Geri, DK8KW, using 10 second dots. His sigs OOO, mine MMM. Actually his signals were audible here. All reports are welcome and further QSOs hoped for. 73, John, G4CNN ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21831 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 18:18:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 18:18:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 15722 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 18:16:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 18:16:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wSQi-00080l-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 19:07:04 +0100 Received: from tvout.mail.uk.easynet.net ([194.6.96.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wSQg-00080f-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 19:07:03 +0100 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-6-73.easynet.co.uk [195.40.201.73]) by tvout.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 6A49063067 for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 19:06:09 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <002001c15cb8$64595b00$49c928c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <15c.2dc164f.29063b17@aol.com> <000701c15b9d$28eedb60$3100a8c0@martin> Subject: LF: Re: Loading coils and shorted turns Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 18:59:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Martin > In Peter Dodd's book LF experiments page 55 a drawing is shown of a loading > coil arrangment. The the coil inductance is adjusted by shorting turns on > the coil. Is this right? Yes. If you look at the coil design by Dick, PA0SE on the front cover of LFEH he uses taps every 10 turns at one end of the coil and a tap every single turn at the other thereby having an incremental one tap per turn for over the whole coil length. See the description of an earlier version on page 62. Dick shorts out the unused turns. Another method is to use the G3YMC coupled bucket variable coil. (I like this idea of Dave's). I have used this method using coupled bins on 73kHz. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10109 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 15:58:17 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 15:58:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6405 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 15:55:54 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 15:55:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wQJS-0007e4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 16:51:26 +0100 Received: from mail.cgocable.ca ([205.151.69.201]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wQJQ-0007dy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 16:51:25 +0100 Received: from 220-173.lr.cgocable.ca (220-173.lr.cgocable.ca [24.226.220.173]) by mail.cgocable.ca (8.11.6/8.11.6) with SMTP id f9OFoRx00347 for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 11:50:27 -0400 Message-ID: <200110241550.f9OFoRx00347@mail.cgocable.ca> X-Sender: bill1@cgocable.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 11:50:56 -0400 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Bill de Carle" Subject: Re: LF: Re: CFH? Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 07:38 AM 10/24/01 -0400, you wrote: >Dave, > >> This morning I heard an unmodulated carrier around 137.0 which may mean >the return of >> CFH. I didn't listen until around 0630z however, by which time it was >well down the >> dawn fade. Can Larry or the other VEs confirm its return, or am I hearing >something >> else? > >I can confirm that there is a very loud carrier in Massachusetts this >morning on 137.042 kHz. Don't know if it's CFH, or not. Same here - strong carrier (S9) on 137.0425 at 1550Z Wednesday Oct 24. Must be CFH. Bill From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26447 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 14:26:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 14:26:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 849 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 14:24:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 14:24:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wOs2-0007MC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:19:02 +0100 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wOs0-0007M7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:19:01 +0100 Received: from [213.1.136.230] (helo=default) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15wOrJ-0000kR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:18:18 +0100 Message-ID: <001701c15c96$bb3d6fa0$bc6601d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Re: CFH? Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 14:05:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks John that was just the right frequency. The overnight plot here was very odd. Either they are not running full power or the T/A path is totally crushed by the geomagnetic storms recently. It did not reach anywhere near the normal CFH levels in the UK between midnight and dawn. Thanks for the gen. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com -----Original Message----- From: John Andrews To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 24 October 2001 13:35 Subject: LF: Re: CFH? >Dave, > >> This morning I heard an unmodulated carrier around 137.0 which may mean >the return of >> CFH. I didn't listen until around 0630z however, by which time it was >well down the >> dawn fade. Can Larry or the other VEs confirm its return, or am I hearing >something >> else? > >I can confirm that there is a very loud carrier in Massachusetts this >morning on 137.042 kHz. Don't know if it's CFH, or not. > >John Andrews, W1TAG > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25748 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 13:24:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 13:24:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 19107 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 13:21:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 13:21:42 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wNtx-0007BM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 14:16:57 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wNtw-0007BH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 14:16:56 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA106818 for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 15:16:13 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20011024141419.2d5f84d0@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 14:14:19 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: COMIC In-reply-to: <3BD30EA4.F991949A@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Mal, I agree that it is a shame if someone tries to sell a book with outdated technology for 15 pound, especially when one can buy an excellent book on LF topics for about the same price : The Low Frequency Experimenter's Handbook (by Peter Dodd, G3LDO) Thanks for pointing us to this attempt to rip us off. I can recommend anybody interested in LF to buy Peter's book instead of the outdated book Mal is reffering to. 73, Rik ON7YD At 19:06 21/10/01 +0100, G3KEV wrote: >I attended the Hornsea rally today and was astounded to find that there >was a book on a stand priced at nearly £15 something to do with LF. >Think what the Hardback copy would cost. >We all know that technology is moving rapidly these days and is soon out >of date in a few months >time, therefore most of the content was out of date as far as I am >concerned by the time it was published. >Who is making all the money ? From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26751 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 11:58:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 11:58:38 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8244 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 11:56:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 11:56:16 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wMSb-0006rm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 12:44:37 +0100 Received: from mailout00.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.16] helo=mailout00.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wMSa-0006rh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 12:44:36 +0100 Received: from fwd00.sul.t-online.de by mailout00.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 15wMRu-0005UK-07; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 13:43:54 +0200 Received: from t-online.de (0597156897-0001@[217.1.74.8]) by fwd00.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 15wMRr-1ZTHpwC; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 13:43:51 +0200 Message-ID: <3BD6A7E5.B9EC29C3@t-online.de> Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 13:37:09 +0200 From: "Schenk-Kurz" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW0324v (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: QRSS Transmission test Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 0597156897-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello, I will do a QRS-Transmission with 30 seconds dotlength starting at 1200 UTC for ca. 1 or 2 hours on 137.690 today. Would be nice to receive some reports! Unfortunately my main receiver is broken at the moment and I can only listen for calls with a rather deaf RX, but maybe a QSO is possible... 73, Fabian dj1yfk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5845 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 11:50:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 11:50:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 29605 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 11:49:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 11:49:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wML0-0006pw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 12:36:46 +0100 Received: from dc-mx04.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.14] helo=dc-mx04.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wMKw-0006pr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 12:36:43 +0100 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johnupstairs) by dc-mx04.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 42282423 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 07:42:08 -0400 Message-ID: <001b01c15c80$687d5ca0$0200a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001b01c15c68$01f6f300$1e557ad5@dave> Subject: LF: Re: CFH? Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 07:38:31 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave, > This morning I heard an unmodulated carrier around 137.0 which may mean the return of > CFH. I didn't listen until around 0630z however, by which time it was well down the > dawn fade. Can Larry or the other VEs confirm its return, or am I hearing something > else? I can confirm that there is a very loud carrier in Massachusetts this morning on 137.042 kHz. Don't know if it's CFH, or not. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20950 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 08:57:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 08:57:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 26557 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 08:55:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 08:55:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wJcx-0005Wq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 09:43:07 +0100 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wJcw-0005Wl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 09:43:07 +0100 Received: from [213.122.85.30] (helo=dave) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15wJcB-00018U-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 09:42:19 +0100 Message-ID: <001b01c15c68$01f6f300$1e557ad5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: CFH? Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 09:31:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This morning I heard an unmodulated carrier around 137.0 which may mean the return of CFH. I didn't listen until around 0630z however, by which time it was well down the dawn fade. Can Larry or the other VEs confirm its return, or am I hearing something else? 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29799 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 07:49:32 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 07:49:32 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5438 invoked from network); 24 Oct 2001 07:47:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 24 Oct 2001 07:47:09 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wIf9-00056Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 08:41:19 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wIf7-00056T-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 08:41:18 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA44624 for ; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 09:40:35 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20011024083841.2d5fce9c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 08:38:41 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: Loading coils and shorted turns In-reply-to: <002301c15be1$27562210$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Larry, I can confirm that shorting turns does lower the Q (= increase losses). The effect is miminal when only a few turns are shorted, but when I measured my loading coil on a commercial impedance analyzer (HP) I noticed following : - using 50% of the turns, other 50% left open : Q = 350 - using 50% of the turns, other 50% shorted : Q = 220 73, Rik ON7YD At 12:38 23/10/01 -0400, you wrote: >Claudio wrote..... > >> P.S.: shorting turns to adjust the inductance of a coil should >> not be harmful, > >When I was bringing up the Decca here last winter and trying to get power >into the antenna I found that shorting turns had a disasterous effect on the >performance of the loading coil. I learned quickly to leave the unused coil >OPEN at the top, for those with Telco experience, a "bridge tap". When I >quit shorting turns I found the antenna current went up and the radiated >signal also went up. > >Just my experience.... > >Larry >VA3LK > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15884 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 23:58:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 23:58:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 28937 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 23:56:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 23:56:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wBHC-0002O2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 00:48:06 +0100 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15wBHA-0002Nw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 00:48:05 +0100 Received: from [62.7.4.107] (helo=default) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15wBGS-0002Az-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 24 Oct 2001 00:47:20 +0100 Message-ID: <003301c15c1d$1360c300$6b04073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Propagation Date: Wed, 24 Oct 2001 00:46:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, another CME and Geomagnetic storm is on the way, so possibly more aurora. Finbar reports hearing a 'roaring sound' on 136 when the 'streamers' were overhead a few weeks back. I have heard noises like DIY QRM myself at night over the last weekend, but have not been able to relate this with aurora as I have had thick cloud on all events that would have reached this far south. Dave G3YMC was pleased (I think!) to work Finbar this morning, which must enhance Dave's DX distance on 136 somewhat. At the same time neither I, nor Mike GW4HXO could hear Dave. I don't think the orientation of Dave's loop favours us. At about the time of this qso I had a high pitched note in the RX (SSB BW) and noted that I had a strong carrier on 135.450 sending DCF-like data burst which were just above 136.0. The 'idle' frequency is some way down the skirt of my IF filter so it must have been quite strong. By about 1100z it was almost undetectable. So it looks like there may have been some enhanced propagation helping Dave's microwatts up to Malin. Its a bit like winning the lottery to catch it like that..... well done Dave. I have looked to see a cause and can't really find anything I can put my finger on. There does not seem to have been a significant X-ray flare at about that time (0930-1000z).... it is between a C6.0 and a couple of C4.0 flares, but there is also a significant ongoing proton event. The following from spaceweather........... ---------------------------------------------------- Space Weather News for October 23, 2001 http://www.spaceweather.com A strong geomagnetic storm that spawned a vivid display of Northern Lights on Oct. 21st and 22nd is subsiding -- but another storm could begin soon. A pair of solar explosions on Oct. 22nd hurled coronal mass ejections toward Earth. The expanding clouds will likely sweep past our planet on Oct. 24th or 25th and trigger a new round of geomagnetic activity. Visit spaceweather.com for details and to view pictures from a growing gallery of this week's sky show. ---------------------------------------------------- It looks like daytime (0900-1600z) towards the end of the week and next weekend could be quite rewarding, but it does not bode too well for night-time levels or any really long distance (> 4000kms) propagation. Good Hunting and Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26452 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 19:27:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 19:27:38 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 146 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 19:25:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 19:25:15 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15w76E-0000jt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 20:20:30 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15w76D-0000jm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 20:20:29 +0100 Received: from ldsas05-69-120-153.cw-visp.com ([212.137.120.153] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15w6wO-00003G-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 19:10:21 +0000 Message-ID: <3BD5B4C5.808CA892@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 19:19:49 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: The Word References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011022153732.009e8c40@mail.pncl.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Walter Blanchard wrote: > The Great Lord of the North hath spaken, > > To which Lordship and his Lady and his Manor do you refer. Going North from Scarborough one reaches the estate of MM0ALM with an abundance of antennas, home built station, and a superb signal. Next we travel westerly and across the Irish sea and inland across the Antrim hill, we arrive at the estate of GI3PDN with a monstrous antenna farm to suit all occassions. Onwards north west we arrive in Donegal and on the shores of the Atlantic ocean we find another antenna farm at EI0CF amongst a most picturesqe setting with antenna wires stretching nearly all the way to America. This is but a few that I could describe as outstanding and very desireable for a Radio Amateur. G3KEV > > Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26350 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 19:27:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 19:27:35 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 101 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 19:25:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 19:25:13 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15w76N-0000jz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 20:20:39 +0100 Received: from m11.boston.juno.com ([64.136.24.74]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15w76L-0000jo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 20:20:37 +0100 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"yokUgcxCbtTP7XLrpefewIS9VH/YcmYuJfy0PZVv8gh9CeY7RLf6eg=="> Received: (from riese-k3djc@juno.com) by m11.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id GJF65DFE; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 15:19:45 EDT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: W3HMS@aol.com, ksmith4707@aol.com, buzn3gkp@aol.com, riese-k3djc@juno.com, flowew3mmv@aol.com Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 15:16:40 -0400 Subject: Re: LF: Re: Loading coils and shorted turns Message-ID: <20011023.151822.-760415.1.riese-k3djc@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "BOB RIESE" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Claudio just got a chance to look at what you offer with your calculator and it is very nice and easy to use and works well thank you Bob K3DJC http://www.qsl.net/in3otd/variodes.html From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7898 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 16:50:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 16:50:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 27102 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 16:48:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 16:48:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15w4ap-0008Qd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 17:39:55 +0100 Received: from tomts8.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.52] helo=tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15w4ao-0008QX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 17:39:54 +0100 Received: from server1 ([209.226.189.65]) by tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20011023163841.CKTZ4752.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 12:38:41 -0400 Message-ID: <002301c15be1$27562210$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: Re: Loading coils and shorted turns Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 12:38:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Claudio wrote..... > P.S.: shorting turns to adjust the inductance of a coil should > not be harmful, When I was bringing up the Decca here last winter and trying to get power into the antenna I found that shorting turns had a disasterous effect on the performance of the loading coil. I learned quickly to leave the unused coil OPEN at the top, for those with Telco experience, a "bridge tap". When I quit shorting turns I found the antenna current went up and the radiated signal also went up. Just my experience.... Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2973 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 12:46:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 12:46:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 29104 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 12:46:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 12:46:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15w0oH-0007GA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:37:33 +0100 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15w0oF-0007G0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:37:32 +0100 Received: from [213.122.101.7] (helo=dave) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15w0na-0001GU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:36:50 +0100 Message-ID: <000901c15bbf$98619e20$07657ad5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" References: Subject: LF: Re:LF Loading coil designs Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:35:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC First apologies if one of my mails to Steve GW4ALG got posted on the reflector - 'pressed the wrong button' as they say! Following this discussion, I suggest the following. One standard bucket (UK size) can be wound with exactly 100m of 16/.2 pvc wire and gives an inductance of 3mH. I have two of these and arrange them concentrically. Moving the buckets inside each other gives a reasonable control of the combined inductance (I require 6.5mH to resonate my top loaded Butternut). One bucket is tapped every 20 turns, for coarse adjustment of the inductance. A suitable clamp to hold the inner bucket is made out of a compressed wad of paper, though the more mechanically minded could design something less Heath Robinson! If I remember correctly the dc resistance is a few ohms and quite acceptable for most powers compared with earth losses. This should work in most situations, however the earth losses of 400 ohms at this QTH dampen the resonance such that the tuning is very broad. I hope to get something about verticals on my website in due course, however I am most disappointed with its performance here - initial tests show my loop is quite a few dB better. 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28987 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 12:31:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 12:31:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11969 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 12:29:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 12:29:07 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15w0XQ-00079G-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:20:08 +0100 Received: from mout02.kundenserver.de ([195.20.224.133]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15w0XO-00079B-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 13:20:07 +0100 Received: from [195.20.224.209] (helo=mrvdom02.schlund.de) by mout02.kundenserver.de with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 15w0Wi-0000ky-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 14:19:24 +0200 Received: from p3e9e9cd9.dip.t-dialin.net ([62.158.156.217] helo=diolog.de) by mrvdom02.schlund.de with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 15w0Wi-0003Yv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 14:19:24 +0200 Message-ID: <3BD5445D.98B09393@diolog.de> Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 12:20:13 +0200 From: "Fabian Kurz" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [de] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: de MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: QSO with Finbar References: <000001c15baa$b90eb000$9f74073e@dave> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Had a play with PED and RUFZ yesterday - quite good fun!! Couldn't download G3ZFE > program, the UK site seemed to be down and I got a 'file not found' error from the > USA site. They both seem to work OK with Windows 98SE DOS mode, though the tone on > RUFZ seems too low in frequency. you can change the tone-frequency in the tone menu (press F6 and then use cursor keys to change it ..) there is also a toplist on www.darc.de/referate/dx/ for rufz and on www.bavarian-contest-club.de/contest/ped/ped.html for ped.... 73, Fabian dj1yfk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7150 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 10:37:50 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 10:37:50 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18170 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 10:36:33 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 10:36:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vyrM-0006dG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 11:32:36 +0100 Received: from tlvsca.vim.tlt.alcatel.it ([194.243.74.245]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vyrJ-0006d7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 11:32:34 +0100 Received: from tlvk7v (tlvk7v.vim.tlt.alcatel.it [151.98.40.9]) by tlvsca.vim.tlt.alcatel.it (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA19283 for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 12:29:37 +0200 (MET DST) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 12:16:45 +0100 From: "Claudio Girardi" Subject: LF: Re: Loading coils and shorted turns To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Mailer: Z-Mail Pro 6.2, NetManage Inc. [ZM62_16H] X-Priority: 3 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Regarding variometer design, I have put on my site a simple form that computes the main parameters for the classical two coils variometers, both the sliding and the rotating coils types. It is at http://www.qsl.net/in3otd/variodes.html ; there are also some photos of my variometer, designed using these forms, at http://www.qsl.net/in3otd/pictures.html . Hope this can be of some help, 73 de Claudio, IN3OTD P.S.: shorting turns to adjust the inductance of a coil should not be harmful, if the wire has a low resistance and the turns are not too close; I seem to remember that I have used this in the output PI of an HF power amplifier some time ago... > Hello Martin, > > > >In Peter Dodd's book LF experiments page 55 a drawing is shown of a loading > >coil arrangment. The the coil inductance is adjusted by shorting turns on > >the coil. Is this right? > > > >Martin > > ... not having Peter's book on hand, but there are several ways of > adjusting the loading coil. The option of shorting turns on the coil can > only give a rough adjustment of the inductivity needed. > > You can for example build a variometer. If you have a look at may homepage > (http://www.qru.de/station.htm) you can see that I use a combination the > method described above with a variometer inside my loading coil. In the > middle of the page you can see the arrangment, a PVC tube with a smaller > coil wound on it, parallel to the main coil. This allows a very definite > fine adjustment of the inductance needed. If you do not have an RF meter on > hand, it also helps to use an oscilloscope and put the wires of the > oscilloscope near the top of the coil (do not directly connect it, you > might have several thousand Volts there!) and tune for maximum voltage that > you can see on the scope. I use a very simple and cheap scope to do this, > which also gives me an indication about the waveform. > > Others have used two cylindrical coils that are being pushed into each > other to fine-tune the inductivity. Walter, DJ2LF uses a lareg PVC pipe and > has a small ferrit core lying inside, the position of this small core > inside the pipe adjusts his inductivity. > > Be aware, that adjusting the loading coil is the key to get the antenna > resonating, it can take a fraction of a turn with the variometer to find > the resonance. > > Also, as an additional hint: think BIG! If you look to the loading coil I > use in relation to the CD, you see, how big the coil should be. 40 cm in > diamter and 50 or 60 cm length is not too big. Copper wire or litz wire > might be fine, I myself used simple 1.5 square-millimeter wire used > normally for electrical installations in houses, I used about 150 to 200 m > for my coil. > > Hope this helps a bit. > > Best 73 > > Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10097 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 10:15:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 10:15:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 14482 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 10:12:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 10:12:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vyRk-0006Wc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 11:06:08 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vyRi-0006WX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 11:06:07 +0100 Received: from [62.7.96.34] (helo=dave) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15vyR4-00031Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 11:05:26 +0100 Message-ID: <000001c15baa$732a3b40$2260073e@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002501c15b48$ac1959c0$b41a9fd4@home> Subject: LF: Re: GM3YXM/P Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 10:51:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC I heard Finbar working Dave from Ullapool this morning, but nil copy here. Nice to have a QSO with Finbar afterwards! 73s Dave dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17028 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 10:11:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 10:11:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 12850 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 10:11:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 10:11:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vyTf-0006X6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 11:08:07 +0100 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vyTe-0006Wz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 11:08:06 +0100 Received: from [62.7.116.159] (helo=dave) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15vySy-0000bP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 11:07:24 +0100 Message-ID: <000001c15baa$b90eb000$9f74073e@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: QSO with Finbar Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 10:56:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Steve Just to let you know I had a QSO with Finbar EI0CF this morning. Quite a struggle and not sure if he got my report OK in the end, but I could sense the thrill he was feeling! Do you have the locator for his new QTH, I think it must me now my best dx. Had a play with PED and RUFZ yesterday - quite good fun!! Couldn't download G3ZFE program, the UK site seemed to be down and I got a 'file not found' error from the USA site. They both seem to work OK with Windows 98SE DOS mode, though the tone on RUFZ seems too low in frequency. 73s Dave dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14655 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 10:10:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 10:10:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18626 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 10:07:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 10:07:44 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vyEI-0006PR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 10:52:14 +0100 Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.101]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vyEG-0006Oy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 10:52:13 +0100 Received: from northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (northrelay01.pok.ibm.com [9.117.200.21]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA500644 for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 05:48:31 -0400 Received: from usa.net (ss8.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.73]) by northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v4.98) with ESMTP id f9N9owq33594 for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 05:50:59 -0400 Message-ID: <3BD53D67.2511787B@usa.net> Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 11:50:31 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Mailing List" Subject: LF: Re: Tech: Argo and QRSS References: <6182380.1003774308393.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John Sexton wrote: > Hi Argo users, > While using Argo to receive 10 second dot QRSS transmissions, I selected 10 second dot mode, but found that everything blurred together, and it was virtually impossible to read it. > When I changed the setting to 3 second dot mode, everything became clear and well separated. The dots could clearly be seen to be 10 seconds long. > Is this normal? or am I doing something wrong? > John, G4CNN > Hello John, this is not quite normal. You should see no blurring, or at least a moderate blurring but not so high to make the signal unreadable. Are you perhaps using too much sensitivity and/or contrast ? Try to set these two adjustment to the minimum setting that still allows you to see the signal, and adjust the input level so that the green vertical level bar stays in the lower half. Hope this helps 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6935 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 09:54:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 09:54:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 24243 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 09:54:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 09:54:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vyAU-0006NJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 10:48:18 +0100 Received: from fortress.tele2.co.uk ([212.19.64.194] helo=mail.internal.tele2.net.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vyAS-0006NE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 10:48:16 +0100 Received: from martin (wireless-066-114.tele2.co.uk [212.19.66.114]) by mail.internal.tele2.net.uk (Postfix) with SMTP id 5B8E7400CD for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 10:44:36 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <000501c15ba7$ee820910$3100a8c0@martin> From: "M0MGM" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200110230510_MC3-E442-2852@compuserve.com> Subject: LF: Re: Loading coils and shorted turns Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 10:48:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2479.0006 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: My experiance of shorted turns on recording heads and transformers is that form a low impedance short that effectivly kills the inductor. Hello Martin, >In Peter Dodd's book LF experiments page 55 a drawing is shown of a loading >coil arrangment. The the coil inductance is adjusted by shorting turns on >the coil. Is this right? > >Martin ... not having Peter's book on hand, but there are several ways of adjusting the loading coil. The option of shorting turns on the coil can only give a rough adjustment of the inductivity needed. You can for example build a variometer. If you have a look at may homepage (http://www.qru.de/station.htm) you can see that I use a combination the method described above with a variometer inside my loading coil. In the middle of the page you can see the arrangment, a PVC tube with a smaller coil wound on it, parallel to the main coil. This allows a very definite fine adjustment of the inductance needed. If you do not have an RF meter on hand, it also helps to use an oscilloscope and put the wires of the oscilloscope near the top of the coil (do not directly connect it, you might have several thousand Volts there!) and tune for maximum voltage that you can see on the scope. I use a very simple and cheap scope to do this, which also gives me an indication about the waveform. Others have used two cylindrical coils that are being pushed into each other to fine-tune the inductivity. Walter, DJ2LF uses a lareg PVC pipe and has a small ferrit core lying inside, the position of this small core inside the pipe adjusts his inductivity. Be aware, that adjusting the loading coil is the key to get the antenna resonating, it can take a fraction of a turn with the variometer to find the resonance. Also, as an additional hint: think BIG! If you look to the loading coil I use in relation to the CD, you see, how big the coil should be. 40 cm in diamter and 50 or 60 cm length is not too big. Copper wire or litz wire might be fine, I myself used simple 1.5 square-millimeter wire used normally for electrical installations in houses, I used about 150 to 200 m for my coil. Hope this helps a bit. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20873 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 09:47:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 09:47:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17685 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 09:47:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 09:47:26 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vy6P-0006Mj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 10:44:05 +0100 Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.101]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vy6O-0006Me-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 10:44:04 +0100 Received: from northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (northrelay01.pok.ibm.com [9.117.200.21]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA416134 for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 05:40:18 -0400 Received: from usa.net (ss8.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.73]) by northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v4.98) with ESMTP id f9N9gkq77164 for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 05:42:46 -0400 Message-ID: <3BD53B7A.67EB29F0@usa.net> Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 11:42:18 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: The Word References: <15c.2dc164f.29063b17@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: WarmSpgs@aol.com wrote: > > Do you have construction plans? Are they in a form you could e-mail, or will > you be posting them on the Web site? > When God told Adam he was to receive his perfect companion, a female full of perfection, but in exchange he should give back an arm and a leg, Adam answered : "No thanks, what can you give me instead for a rib ? " 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1759 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 09:18:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 09:18:52 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18348 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 09:17:30 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 09:17:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vxaQ-0006Db-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 10:11:02 +0100 Received: from siaag1af.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.8]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vxaN-0006DW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 10:11:00 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1af.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id FAA01951 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 05:10:14 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 05:09:50 -0400 From: "Holger 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Loading coils and shorted turns To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200110230510_MC3-E442-2852@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Martin, >In Peter Dodd's book LF experiments page 55 a drawing is shown of a loading >coil arrangment. The the coil inductance is adjusted by shorting turns on >the coil. Is this right? > >Martin ... not having Peter's book on hand, but there are several ways of adjusting the loading coil. The option of shorting turns on the coil can only give a rough adjustment of the inductivity needed. You can for example build a variometer. If you have a look at may homepage (http://www.qru.de/station.htm) you can see that I use a combination the method described above with a variometer inside my loading coil. In the middle of the page you can see the arrangment, a PVC tube with a smaller coil wound on it, parallel to the main coil. This allows a very definite fine adjustment of the inductance needed. If you do not have an RF meter on hand, it also helps to use an oscilloscope and put the wires of the oscilloscope near the top of the coil (do not directly connect it, you might have several thousand Volts there!) and tune for maximum voltage that you can see on the scope. I use a very simple and cheap scope to do this, which also gives me an indication about the waveform. Others have used two cylindrical coils that are being pushed into each other to fine-tune the inductivity. Walter, DJ2LF uses a lareg PVC pipe and has a small ferrit core lying inside, the position of this small core inside the pipe adjusts his inductivity. Be aware, that adjusting the loading coil is the key to get the antenna resonating, it can take a fraction of a turn with the variometer to find the resonance. Also, as an additional hint: think BIG! If you look to the loading coil I use in relation to the CD, you see, how big the coil should be. 40 cm in diamter and 50 or 60 cm length is not too big. Copper wire or litz wire might be fine, I myself used simple 1.5 square-millimeter wire used normally for electrical installations in houses, I used about 150 to 200 m for my coil. Hope this helps a bit. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13197 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 08:46:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 08:46:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 14624 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 08:43:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 08:43:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vx3X-000649-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 09:37:03 +0100 Received: from fortress.tele2.co.uk ([212.19.64.194] helo=mail.internal.tele2.net.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vx3V-000644-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 09:37:02 +0100 Received: from martin (wireless-066-114.tele2.co.uk [212.19.66.114]) by mail.internal.tele2.net.uk (Postfix) with SMTP id 08C0F4032A for ; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 09:27:30 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <000701c15b9d$28eedb60$3100a8c0@martin> From: "M0MGM" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <15c.2dc164f.29063b17@aol.com> Subject: LF: Loading coils and shorted turns Date: Tue, 23 Oct 2001 09:31:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2479.0006 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In Peter Dodd's book LF experiments page 55 a drawing is shown of a loading coil arrangment. The the coil inductance is adjusted by shorting turns on the coil. Is this right? Martin From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13105 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 03:28:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 03:28:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26429 invoked from network); 23 Oct 2001 03:26:01 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Oct 2001 03:26:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vs4H-0004xl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 04:17:29 +0100 Received: from imo-r05.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.101]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vs4G-0004xg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 23 Oct 2001 04:17:28 +0100 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-r05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.8.) id l.15c.2dc164f (3976) for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 23:16:40 -0400 (EDT) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <15c.2dc164f.29063b17@aol.com> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 23:16:39 EDT Subject: Re: LF: The Word To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 10/22/01 4:14:14 PM Eastern Daylight Time, nl9222@wanadoo.nl writes: << Are woman alowed or should i build one myself? >> Do you have construction plans? Are they in a form you could e-mail, or will you be posting them on the Web site? 73 and :-) John From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1036 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 22:33:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 22:33:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 2357 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 22:31:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 22:31:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vnYw-0003qx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 23:28:50 +0100 Received: from [212.159.14.225] (helo=murphys-outbound.services.quay.plus.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vnYv-0003qn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 23:28:49 +0100 Received: (qmail 27907 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 22:27:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO dellboy) (212.159.26.180) by murphys with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 22:27:23 -0000 Message-ID: <002501c15b48$ac1959c0$b41a9fd4@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: GM3YXM/P Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 23:25:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Dear All.
 
I have an antenna up, about 80mtrs long and 30mtrs high and can get 3A RF into it. Listen out for weak signals from North West Scotland (near Ullapool) and be patient if you call, bad Loran inteference from the Faroe islands.
Will try some QRSS late afternoon.
Didn't see the Aurora, total cloud cover!
 
73. Dave GM3YXM/P
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24468 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 18:17:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 18:17:19 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 20037 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 18:14:52 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 18:14:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vjZ6-0002wB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 19:12:44 +0100 Received: from [204.202.140.198] (helo=gomailmta-bc.seamail.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vjZ5-0002w6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 19:12:43 +0100 Received: from gomailjtp05 ([10.212.0.165]) by mta06.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GLM006J5D7MSW@mta06.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:11:46 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:11:48 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Sexton" Subject: LF: Tech: Argo and QRSS To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <6182380.1003774308393.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Argo users, While using Argo to receive 10 second dot QRSS transmissions, I selected 10 second dot mode, but found that everything blurred together, and it was virtually impossible to read it. When I changed the setting to 3 second dot mode, everything became clear and well separated. The dots could clearly be seen to be 10 seconds long. Is this normal? or am I doing something wrong? John, G4CNN ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1101 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 18:16:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 18:16:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 22651 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 18:16:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 18:16:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vjaL-0002wX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 19:14:01 +0100 Received: from fep03.swip.net ([130.244.199.131] helo=fep03-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vjaK-0002wS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 19:14:00 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.11.110]) by fep03-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20011022181317.PGFO12112.fep03-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 20:13:17 +0200 Message-ID: <01cb01c15b25$3a4989a0$6e0b97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: SV: LF Loading coil designs Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 20:13:13 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Martin, you may wish to try the programs TANT136 and SOLNOID2 available at http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp/ 73 Johan SM6LKM >Any thoughts on loading coil design to drive it from the output of a 100w >ropex would be apreciated. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26135 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 18:00:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 18:00:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26455 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 17:58:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 17:58:54 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vjEK-0002oI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 18:51:16 +0100 Received: from mailout06.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.19] helo=mailout06.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vjEG-0002oD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 18:51:12 +0100 Received: from fwd06.sul.t-online.de by mailout06.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 15vjDa-0001zD-04; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 19:50:30 +0200 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.156.6.204]) by fwd06.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 15vjDG-0IjWaGC; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 19:50:10 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <6759669.1002876291241.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> <00ca01c153b0$a30444c0$2fb51bca@xtr743187> <003801c15779$b1521350$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> <005c01c15ab1$cd350600$50b51bca@xtr743187> <002401c15af7$714035e0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> Subject: LF: 137,7 QRSS X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------030600010101010307050101" Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 19:50:10 +0200 Message-ID: <15vjDG-0IjWaGC@fwd06.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030600010101010307050101 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Geri, got a SpecLab screenshot showing one of the Ks of ur callsign. Nothing from G4CNN. seems 1808 UTC was too late. used ant: L-ant 17m mast es 350m wire. regards Uwe/dj8wx --------------030600010101010307050101 Content-Type: image/gif; name="SPEC2.GIF" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="SPEC2.GIF" R0lGODdhQAF8APcAAAAAAAAAQAAAgAAA/wAgAAAgQAAggAAg/wBAAABAQABAgABA/wBgAABg QABggABg/wCAAACAQACAgACA/wCgAACgQACggACg/wDAAADAQADAgADA/wD/AAD/QAD/gAD/ /yAAACAAQCAAgCAA/yAgACAgQCAggCAg/yBAACBAQCBAgCBA/yBgACBgQCBggCBg/yCAACCA QCCAgCCA/yCgACCgQCCggCCg/yDAACDAQCDAgCDA/yD/ACD/QCD/gCD//0AAAEAAQEAAgEAA /0AgAEAgQEAggEAg/0BAAEBAQEBAgEBA/0BgAEBgQEBggEBg/0CAAECAQECAgECA/0CgAECg QECggECg/0DAAEDAQEDAgEDA/0D/AED/QED/gED//2AAAGAAQGAAgGAA/2AgAGAgQGAggGAg /2BAAGBAQGBAgGBA/2BgAGBgQGBggGBg/2CAAGCAQGCAgGCA/2CgAGCgQGCggGCg/2DAAGDA QGDAgGDA/2D/AGD/QGD/gGD//4AAAIAAQIAAgIAA/4AgAIAgQIAggIAg/4BAAIBAQIBAgIBA /4BgAIBgQIBggIBg/4CAAICAQICAgICA/4CgAICgQICggICg/4DAAIDAQIDAgIDA/4D/AID/ QID/gID//6AAAKAAQKAAgKAA/6AgAKAgQKAggKAg/6BAAKBAQKBAgKBA/6BgAKBgQKBggKBg 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60bZK8gsvLyDHMiFZMiGdMiHhMiIlMiJpMiKtMiLxMiM1MiN5MiO9MiPBMmQFEn6k0BC1EJC HMCS3EcoVMl/LEeVLMg9NMksNMUlVMiRdL1pPMlz1Ek4nL88bMOehMWh7MZzHMEanEWcBEM5 nEU2FEoi5D+h1EmibDyj5EXpW0SlLESmpMUCfMpvpEWp9Eaw/ERZ88lnlEQpHMA45MOkuNRK 1tvCXfzGtOzKFsRHPjTHsWxHmVRLQbTGvxw/tBTItyy9uJTLrATHfmzKxGRFTbxKPxxFRPRF xsTFbaRGwkQ9wzzMXBxGqNxMsbxBPIzKZZRMmQzKCOzDsMTM1dPMzUzHzgTLaAxHxwzNaiTN SXRC89NHe1TG1SQ98QNOGGzGO0zJldzJfwRKgPzDn8xHvtzF3KRCIExJ0fTN6ky9m7RE69TO hsROftzO7wTP8BTP8STP8rTIgAAAOw== --------------030600010101010307050101-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7327 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 17:54:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 17:54:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 12192 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 17:53:05 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 17:53:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vjAl-0002nO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 18:47:35 +0100 Received: from siaag1af.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.8]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vjAj-0002nJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 18:47:34 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1af.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id NAA01264 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 13:46:52 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 13:46:32 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: QRSS transmissions seen at DK8KW To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200110221346_MC3-E433-B40E@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello John >Any reply will be welcome, although patience will be required >because at 10 second dots, each over takes about 20 minutes. >73, John, G4CNN< I gave you a call at around 16.40 UTC tonight but lost your signal afterwards in QSB. I copied your 10-second QRSS signal with "M", have a look at http://www.qru.de/g4cnn.html to see the spectrogram. QRB between us is is 765 km. We will give it another try one of these days (tomorrow and Thursday, however, I have QRL ...). Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1044 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 17:52:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 17:52:40 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 7145 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 17:50:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 17:50:13 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vj5h-0002mZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 18:42:21 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vj5g-0002mU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 18:42:21 +0100 Received: from ldsas07-71-122-60.cw-visp.com ([212.137.122.60] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15vivx-00013j-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 17:32:18 +0000 Message-ID: <3BD44C4B.70FFAD34@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 17:41:47 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: beacon Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In spite of the heavy qrn yesterday I heard G3JKV around 137 khz in beacon mode. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3112 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 17:51:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 17:51:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6469 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 17:49:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 17:49:47 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vj5q-0002mg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 18:42:30 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vj5p-0002mb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 18:42:29 +0100 Received: from ldsas07-71-122-60.cw-visp.com ([212.137.122.60] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15viw7-00014a-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 17:32:27 +0000 Message-ID: <3BD44C55.3B8CDD24@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 17:41:57 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: LF Loading coil designs References: <001101c15997$35e4b7c0$c657073e@computer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Martin wrote: > I presently have an 80m G5RV antenna and would like to get it to resonate on > 136. Height is around 25 feet in the middle running down centre of garden > with feeder dog legged to the side. I have put a drawing at > http://www.btinternet.com/~pangbourneonthames/m0mgm/lfant.jpg > > Any thoughts on loading coil design to drive it from the output of a 100w > ropex would be apreciated. > > Martin A g5rv at 25 ft high is hardly ideal for 136 !! and you will need considerable base coil loading to resonate it, however if you contact me directly via email I will point you in the right direction to get you started. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2943 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 16:31:24 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 16:31:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18672 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 16:30:02 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 16:30:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vhi0-0002X4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 17:13:48 +0100 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vhhu-0002Wz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 17:13:43 +0100 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (45.235.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.235.45]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f9MGCuJ14329 for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 17:12:56 +0100 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011022153732.009e8c40@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 16:59:44 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: The Word MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The Great Lord of the North hath spaken, The All-hearing; the All-seeing; The All-knowing; He hath appeared in his golden chariot Mercedes, In thunderous tones hath he said; "Ye infidels of the South, Ye who worship false gods, Ye who abandon the True Faith for harlots; The sinful QRSS and Spectrensis Analysum; Ye are found wanting in my eyes In the soft south there is no courage, Ye are not hard men happy to spend your substance On Antenna Farms and Powerful Amplifiers So The Word may be made plain to the uttermost ends of the Oceans, the Continents and even unto the Antipodes. It is not good enough Only Evil will come of it. Therefore I command you, Sell up your Computers, your Programs and your Homes, Come to the spacious North, Invest in old Airfields, In mighty Coils of Wire and Tall Towers, Reaching even unto the clouds, And lay on three-phase electricity to supply abundant Power, Then with Mighty Swipings on the Key, Shall ye call CQ, And answer there will come in plenty, And ye shall be famous throughout the World, And many Golden Plaques and Achievement Certificates shall be yours. Such Knowledge shall ye gain, No longer need ye buy Expensive Books; Or waste your time at Boring so-called "Conventions" Only laid on to trick ye into drunkenness and lewd behaviour. But beware of Heretics, Who whisper in Corners, Saying "No longer is this Amateur; no longer is this Experimentation; it is only Brute Force", For these too are False Gods, The curious who "Experiment" and "Fiddle About", With QRP and little bits of wire Shall meet their Just Deserts; They shall not be heard in the Halls beyond the Oceans, Nor yet by the Kiwi Bird, And they shall pass away, And have to buy wallpaper to cover their empty walls." Thus spake the Great Lord. The All-hearing; the All-seeing; The All-knowing. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18399 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 15:33:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 15:33:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 11776 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 15:33:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 15:33:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vh1D-0002Ms-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 16:29:35 +0100 Received: from cmailenv1.svr.pol.co.uk ([213.218.77.53]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vh1C-0002Mm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 16:29:34 +0100 Received: from [62.21.167.111] (helo=w8k3f0) by cmailENV1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15vh0X-00036V-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 15:28:53 +0000 Message-ID: <000601c15b0f$df0b95c0$6fa7153e@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <1237426.1003741887175.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> Subject: LF: Re: QRSS transmissions Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 17:39:40 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear John, Starting at 1500 UTC I got a clear reception of "CQ G4CNN" using Spectran V1. It was the first time in my life that I used Spectran so the adjustments may not have been optimum. I would have liked to attach the spectogram to this message but I still have to find out how to save it. 73, Dick, PA0SE ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- Van: John Sexton Aan: Verzonden: maandag 22 oktober 2001 11:11 Onderwerp: LF: QRSS transmissions > Hi All, > I shall again be transmitting 10 second dot QRSS CQs from Monday to Friday this week on 137.700 kHz, from 15.00 UTC till 18.00 UTC, primarily in the hope of being heard/seen in France, Holland, Belgium, Germany, or , who knows?, further east. > During one listening over on friday 011022 at 16.55 UTC there was what looked like a reply on 137.701 at 16.55. Alan has subsequently informed me that it was DF6NM calling CQ presumably not hearing me. Thanks Alan. It produced a very strong trace on Argo set to 10 sec dot here, even blooming, but quite unreadable with my settings. > I know that I am getting into Germany, because Fabian, DJ1YFK, has sent me a Spectran shot of part of the call-sign. > Any reply will be welcome, although patience will be required because at 10 second dots, each over takes about 20 minutes. > 73, John, G4CNN > > ___________________________________________________ > GO.com Mail > Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14489 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 14:43:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 14:43:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 27360 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 14:41:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 14:41:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vg6s-0002C1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 15:31:22 +0100 Received: from smtp.seznam.cz ([195.119.180.43] helo=email.seznam.cz) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vg6n-0002Bw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 15:31:19 +0100 Received: (qmail 77224 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 14:30:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO OK1FIG) (195.47.69.2) by smtp.seznam.cz with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 14:30:22 -0000 Message-ID: <00f001c15b06$847cd730$1601a8c0@cz.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly \(OK1FIG\)" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Small thing Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 16:33:28 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi all
 
Few years ago a made a database program for my QSOs. Now I made it "public domain". You can get installer at:
go to the bottom of the page.
Let me know.
 
73 Petr OK1FIG
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25007 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 13:48:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 13:48:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 13973 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 13:45:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 13:45:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vfCu-00022D-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 14:33:32 +0100 Received: from toq5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.27] helo=toq5-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vfCs-00021u-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 14:33:31 +0100 Received: from server1 ([216.209.138.175]) by tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20011022124540.DSCP3059.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 08:45:40 -0400 Message-ID: <002401c15af7$714035e0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <6759669.1002876291241.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> <00ca01c153b0$a30444c0$2fb51bca@xtr743187> <003801c15779$b1521350$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> <005c01c15ab1$cd350600$50b51bca@xtr743187> Subject: Re: LF: ZL6QH & access to 136 Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 08:37:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Bob: > We have yet to select a test frequency in the 136 kHz band for ZL6QH. It > can be freely selected to within about 0.1 Hz and it will be stabilised to > better than +/- 0.1 Hz. We could be ready to try an "all night squirt" on 1 > and/or 15 December. OK, might I suggest that you consider 135.9220 or even my 137.7894 for the session. I will shut down for the test period. I have many hours of listening on both these QRG's and have them thorougly documented so I can easily tell if anything is "new". I now have the ability to detect a flea' looking very hard for a flea to climb onto hi. > We will nominate liaison frequencies in the 20 and 40 metre bands. More > info nearer to the time. My HF CW station is co-located with the LF station so I can meet you on CW easily. I don't operate SSB anymore. I have what amounts to a whole new receiving system here, and I can process and display about 5 to 7 minutes behind real time. December 1st is better for me than December 15th. We will be stuck on the mainland almost for sure on December 1st and an evening up at the remote site will be welcome diversion, by the 15th I would expect (says he hopefully) to be back here at home unless our weather is very warm and the ice is thin hi. Please keep me advised, I will be moving out of the Island QTH by about November 15th and I need to make sure I have everything I will need ashore by then or I just wont have access to it for the test period. 73 es good luck Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17934 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 11:55:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 11:55:14 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24873 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 11:53:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 11:53:49 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vdVZ-0001k6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 12:44:41 +0100 Received: from posti.mesta.net ([195.197.53.227] helo=kauha.saunalahti.fi) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vdVW-0001k1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 12:44:39 +0100 Received: from meisaku (MMMCCVI.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.46.206]) by kauha.saunalahti.fi (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id f9MBiDs06078 for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 14:44:14 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20011022144356.00997ae0@pop.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: vaiski1@pop.saunalahti.fi (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 14:43:56 +0300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: LF: OH1TN transmissions (see RadCom Nov 2001) In-reply-to: <1237426.1003741887175.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp0 5> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: A short summary of OH1TN signal F-s measurements: Ground distance = 152 km, but the 'loose' soil above the base rock = mostly few metres only. Daytime ground wave F-s during 2000 & 2001 = 18 dB(uV/m). No notable changes due to antenna config alterations. During October 2001 daytime F-s variation up to 5 dB observed e.g. on 9th & 10th but during most days variation can be less than 1/2 dB. The observed absolute Min & Max during evening and nite: Min = 5 dB(uV/m), Max = 24 dB(uV/m) The greatest observed variation during the dark hours: 8 dB during less than ten minutes. My best regards to all Vaino, OH2LX PS MANY THANKS for the special postcard sent to me by the LF-group from the Windsor HFC 2001 !! |---------------------------------------------------------| | V.K.Lehtoranta ¤ 60N33.6 024E58.7 KP20LN74 | | P.O.Box 50 ¤ Telephone: +358-9-4173965 | | FIN-05401, Jokela ¤ Telefax: +358-9-4173961 | | Finland ¤ email: vaiski@dlc.fi | |---------------------------------------------------------| From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11420 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 11:26:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 11:26:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 12633 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 11:25:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 11:25:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vd9P-0001hZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 12:21:47 +0100 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vd9O-0001hU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 12:21:46 +0100 Received: from [213.122.92.236] (helo=default) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15vd8i-0007mP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 12:21:04 +0100 Message-ID: <001301c15aeb$a1d21a40$ec5c7ad5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Aurora sightings ...dont give up yet Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 12:20:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, if you didn't see anything last night dont give up just yet. We had 10/10ths cloud here so nothing seen other than scatter from the lights on the docks. There is another CME shock that was due early this morning or some time today, which could boost the effect again tonight. The Kp was 8 just before midnight, and the strom lasted about 15 hours. Look for enhanced daytime DX on 136 about Thursday or Friday, and probably into the weekend, this one may last quite a while. After 4 flares on Friday, there were another two on Sunday that were smaller .... an M1.5 just before dawn that would have little effect in Europe and an M3.0 at about 1100z which should have given enhancement for 15 to 20 minutes. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11584 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 11:01:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 11:01:30 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5540 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 11:00:08 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 11:00:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vcjM-0001aJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:54:52 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vcjL-0001aE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:54:51 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15vcig-0004Es-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:54:10 +0100 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15vcif-0000K1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:54:09 +0100 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 11:57:26 +0000 Subject: Re: LF: LF Loading coil designs In-reply-to: <001101c15997$35e4b7c0$c657073e@computer> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Dear Martin, LF Group, For relatively low powers like 100W, a loading coil wound on about 100mm dia PVC tube using about 0.8 or 1mm diameter enamelled wire is fairly satisfactory. It is not the most efficient loading coil possible, but the difference between it and a more elaborate coil with litz wire, etc is probably not going to be more than 1dB or so with this type of antenna, and heating will not be a problem with 100W. The brown PVC main drain pipe sold by DIY shops is OK; I have yet to find any type of plastic pipe with significant loss at LF. As a very rough guess, you will need about 4 - 500 turns for the G5RV. Put in taps every 10 - 20 turns for one half of the coil, for coarse tuning. A variometer is ideal for fine tuning, but if you want to avoid the work involved, a simple fine tuning method that works quite well is to use a large ferrite core (one from an old SMPSU with the windings stripped off is OK) which can be slid in and out of one end of the loading coil. You can find the resonance point roughly by peaking up a received signal on the band ( or DCF39 on 138.83kHz). You may well get a reasonable impedance match simply by connecting the loading coil in series with the antenna and TX output, and tuning for resonance. The resistance of the resonant antenna will probably be in the range about 20 to 100 or so ohms, depending on all sorts of factors. To improve the matching, either a seperate transformer wound on a ferrite core can be used (probably better on the whole), or the loading coil can be used as an auto-transformer by grounding the "cold" end and having several taps every few turns from the ground end. The tap can be selected for best matching, although there will be some interaction between tuning and loading adjustments. The best way to check performance is with an RF ammeter in the antenna down lead - either thermocouple or one of the current transformer/rectifier designs around. I guess about 1-2 A will be quite good going. However, although max antenna current means max radiated signal, it does not neccesarily mean good matching for the TX, so one of the LF SWR bridge designs will help a lot for setting up. If possible, have the loading coil directly at the bottom of the antenna feeder. Lifting the coil a few feet off the ground will reduce losses. Some kind of shelter to keep the water off is advisable. Hope this info is helpful - hope to see you soon on 136k! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9946 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 09:21:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 09:21:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23233 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 09:20:43 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 09:20:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vb8C-0001JO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 10:12:24 +0100 Received: from [204.202.140.199] (helo=gomailmta-bc.seamail.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vb8B-0001JH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 10:12:23 +0100 Received: from gomailjtp05 ([10.212.0.165]) by mta07.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GLL00G02O70LR@mta07.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 02:11:25 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 02:11:27 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Sexton" Subject: LF: QRSS transmissions To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <1237426.1003741887175.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, I shall again be transmitting 10 second dot QRSS CQs from Monday to Friday this week on 137.700 kHz, from 15.00 UTC till 18.00 UTC, primarily in the hope of being heard/seen in France, Holland, Belgium, Germany, or , who knows?, further east. During one listening over on friday 011022 at 16.55 UTC there was what looked like a reply on 137.701 at 16.55. Alan has subsequently informed me that it was DF6NM calling CQ presumably not hearing me. Thanks Alan. It produced a very strong trace on Argo set to 10 sec dot here, even blooming, but quite unreadable with my settings. I know that I am getting into Germany, because Fabian, DJ1YFK, has sent me a Spectran shot of part of the call-sign. Any reply will be welcome, although patience will be required because at 10 second dots, each over takes about 20 minutes. 73, John, G4CNN ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 997 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 08:03:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 08:03:39 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 23493 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 08:03:28 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 08:03:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vZvh-00013r-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 08:55:25 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vZve-00013m-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 08:55:23 +0100 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id JAA17603; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 09:02:18 +0100 (BST) Received: (qmail 2366 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 08:46:52 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 08:46:52 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id IAA10061; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 08:23:29 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma010037; Mon, 22 Oct 01 08:23:05 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 08:57:15 +0100 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <496ZCN54>; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 08:52:42 +0100 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C5F2@PDW-MAIL-R1> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Visible Aurora Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 08:52:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Was alerted to this at 2150a by G0API and drove out to a darker area of countryside to look. Impressives slowly moving dark red patches in the northern sky that obliterated part of the Great Bear constellation. The aurora disappeared quite quickly after 2220a although I stayed around for another 30 mins waiting to see if it would return. An aurora was visible on the South Coast once during the 1989 sunspot peak, so that's probably it for this cycle ! Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: Nick [mailto:maad65@dial.pipex.com] > Sent: 2001-10-21 22:12 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: Visible Aurora > > > Hi > > I have just come in from watching a strong visible aurora, we > are on the south > coast of England. > > Nick > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15267 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 07:57:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 07:57:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16956 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 07:56:51 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 07:56:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vZpp-00012L-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 08:49:21 +0100 Received: from siaag2ab.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.132]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vZpm-00012G-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 08:49:19 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2ab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id DAA20916 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 03:48:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 03:48:22 -0400 From: "Holger 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Hannover Interradio anyone (October 27, 2001) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200110220348_MC3-E415-10F3@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LF-folks, we have the INTERRADIO, a large rally, fleemarket and ham meeting in Hannover/Northern Germany on Saturday, October 27, 2001. Anyone of you planning to attend? In this case we could hold a small regional LF meeting in one of the restaurants around noontime. I myself will attend and plan to be on standby throughout the meeting on 144.575 MHz FM, depending on traffic on that frequency I will witch on my CTCSS squelch 136.5 Hz (sorry, no LF handheld available at this time -hi-). Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13928 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 04:35:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 04:35:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 15826 invoked from network); 22 Oct 2001 04:34:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 22 Oct 2001 04:34:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vWfN-0000aD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 05:26:21 +0100 Received: from mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.132]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vWfM-0000a8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 05:26:20 +0100 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.181.73]) by mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20011022042505.YCGS18935.mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Mon, 22 Oct 2001 17:25:05 +1300 Message-ID: <005c01c15ab1$cd350600$50b51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <6759669.1002876291241.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> <00ca01c153b0$a30444c0$2fb51bca@xtr743187> <003801c15779$b1521350$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> Subject: Re: LF: ZL6QH & access to 136 Date: Mon, 22 Oct 2001 17:26:25 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Larry VA3LK, Subject: Re: LF: ZL6QH & access to 136 > Please, what will be his qrg? and will it be a stabilized system? We have yet to select a test frequency in the 136 kHz band for ZL6QH. It can be freely selected to within about 0.1 Hz and it will be stabilised to better than +/- 0.1 Hz. We could be ready to try an "all night squirt" on 1 and/or 15 December. We will nominate liaison frequencies in the 20 and 40 metre bands. More info nearer to the time. 73, Bob From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4917 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2001 21:22:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Oct 2001 21:22:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 3869 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2001 21:22:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Oct 2001 21:22:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vQ0p-00081D-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 22:20:03 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vQ0o-00080n-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 22:20:02 +0100 Received: from abc (man-s021.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.41.148]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id f9LLJKB15803 for ; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 22:19:20 +0100 Message-ID: <002101c15a76$46dfd700$ec29f7c2@zetnet.co.uk> From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3BD30EA4.F991949A@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: COMIC Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 22:17:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: "gii3kev" To: "rsgb rsgb" Sent: Sunday, October 21, 2001 7:06 PM Subject: LF: COMIC > If anyone wants to get started on LF and they contact me I will give > them all the up to date info that they require and free of charge about > anything LF to get started at minimum cost for equipment, antennas etc. Why don't you write it up and make it available online (and update it as things change)? G3PAI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25520 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2001 21:17:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Oct 2001 21:17:40 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29859 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2001 21:17:30 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Oct 2001 21:17:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vPts-0007xs-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 22:12:52 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vPtr-0007xn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 22:12:51 +0100 Received: from [213.122.131.24] (helo=host213-122-131-24.btinternet.com) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15vPtC-0005q1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 22:12:10 +0100 From: "Nick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Visible Aurora Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 22:12:13 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi I have just come in from watching a strong visible aurora, we are on the south coast of England. Nick From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11048 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2001 21:11:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Oct 2001 21:11:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15482 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2001 21:11:09 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Oct 2001 21:11:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vPnh-0007wR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 22:06:29 +0100 Received: from smtp1.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.35.136] helo=smtp.wanadoo.nl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vPng-0007wM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 22:06:28 +0100 Received: from nl9222 (p0915.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.202.152]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f9LL5jV28200 for ; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 23:05:45 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <200110212105.f9LL5jV28200@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 23:5:49 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: Re: LF: CFH? X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by smtp.wanadoo.nl id f9LL5jV28200 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 10/21/01 3:59:00 PM, you wrote: >Hello Jim, hello Uwe. > >>I do hear DDH47 on 137,40kHz; RTTY; 45Bd; shift 75 Hz. it is >>- 9.9kHz from 147,3kHz. the mirror + 9,9kHz I can receive too. >>is this the sig u receive ? is DDH47 strong over there ? >>what is the IF of ur RXs ? >>regards >>Uwe/dj8wx > >I have been hearing this ghost signal of DDH47 signal on 147.40 kHz, too, >here occasionally, but I was under the impression that it was some kind of >intermodulation in my receiver. BTW, I believe it is 50 Bd, Uwe, the 45.45 >Bd signal 100 Hz higher today was my own RTTY transmission (and no, I was >not sending wx information but called cq -- no reply in RTTY but a >receprion report from Ko, NL9222 -hi-). > >Best 73 > >Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) Hi Uwe, Geri.. 85hz / 50Bd [147.30 if MARK is 753Hz] and not a ghost, the same station we all listened to on 11th of February 2000 [CW] and well copied on "The other side" Right now he's just 599+50, i guess he's running out of finals.. 73 Ko Versteeg, NL9222 [SWL] [Grid: JO22KE - Lat: 52° 12' 15.0"N Long: 04° 51' 40.5"E] Home: http://home.wanadoo.nl/nl9222/index.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8844 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2001 21:10:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Oct 2001 21:10:08 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 14291 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2001 21:09:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Oct 2001 21:09:52 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vPlx-0007uv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 22:04:41 +0100 Received: from mailout02.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.17] helo=mailout02.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vPlw-0007uq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 22:04:41 +0100 Received: from fwd02.sul.t-online.de by mailout02.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 15vPlI-0005rW-0E; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 23:04:00 +0200 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[193.159.25.229]) by fwd02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 15vPlG-16JHGqC; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 23:03:58 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200110211559_MC3-E3FD-2062@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: LF: CFH? X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 23:03:58 +0200 Message-ID: <15vPlG-16JHGqC@fwd02.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW schrieb: > Hello Jim, hello Uwe. > > >I do hear DDH47 on 137,40kHz; RTTY; 45Bd; shift 75 Hz. it is > >- 9.9kHz from 147,3kHz. the mirror + 9,9kHz I can receive too. > >is this the sig u receive ? is DDH47 strong over there ? > >what is the IF of ur RXs ? > >regards > >Uwe/dj8wx > > I have been hearing this ghost signal of DDH47 signal on 147.40 kHz, too, > here occasionally, but I was under the impression that it was some kind of > intermodulation in my receiver. BTW, I believe it is 50 Bd, Uwe, the 45.45 > Bd signal 100 Hz higher today was my own RTTY transmission (and no, I was > not sending wx information but called cq -- no reply in RTTY but a > receprion report from Ko, NL9222 -hi-). > > Best 73 > > Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) > > Hi Geri es All, yes, it is 50Bd. the counter indicated 49,5Bd. that confused me. Geri, what abt the attenuation of FS btwn the 147,3kHz- es the 137,4kHz-sig ? can u measure it ? sri, I did`nt hear ur transmission, Geri. an announcement would be helpfull. regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28957 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2001 20:04:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Oct 2001 20:04:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27871 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2001 20:03:08 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Oct 2001 20:03:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vOm0-0007k2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 21:00:40 +0100 Received: from siaag2aa.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.131]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vOlz-0007jx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 21:00:39 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2aa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id PAA15155 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 15:59:57 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 15:59:31 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: Re: LF: CFH? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200110211559_MC3-E3FD-2062@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Jim, hello Uwe. >I do hear DDH47 on 137,40kHz; RTTY; 45Bd; shift 75 Hz. it is >- 9.9kHz from 147,3kHz. the mirror + 9,9kHz I can receive too. >is this the sig u receive ? is DDH47 strong over there ? >what is the IF of ur RXs ? >regards >Uwe/dj8wx I have been hearing this ghost signal of DDH47 signal on 147.40 kHz, too, here occasionally, but I was under the impression that it was some kind of intermodulation in my receiver. BTW, I believe it is 50 Bd, Uwe, the 45.45 Bd signal 100 Hz higher today was my own RTTY transmission (and no, I was not sending wx information but called cq -- no reply in RTTY but a receprion report from Ko, NL9222 -hi-). Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13423 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2001 19:10:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Oct 2001 19:10:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6648 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2001 19:09:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Oct 2001 19:09:15 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vNwH-0007dB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 20:07:13 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vNwG-0007d6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 20:07:12 +0100 Received: from ldsas19-83-134-120.cw-visp.com ([212.137.134.120] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15vNmO-0003Lj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 18:57:10 +0000 Message-ID: <3BD30EA4.F991949A@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 19:06:28 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: COMIC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I attended the Hornsea rally today and was astounded to find that there was a book on a stand priced at nearly £15 something to do with LF. Think what the Hardback copy would cost. We all know that technology is moving rapidly these days and is soon out of date in a few months time, therefore most of the content was out of date as far as I am concerned by the time it was published. Who is making all the money ? If anyone wants to get started on LF and they contact me I will give them all the up to date info that they require and free of charge about anything LF to get started at minimum cost for equipment, antennas etc. With 21 countries worked two way on 136 khz and 157 worked on 160 metres I think I am in a position to offer the necessary advice and at no cost for the information. There are also others with web sites that have state of the art designs for transmitters and accessories. The choice is yours, an expensive comic or free advice to achieve the same object. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4518 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2001 17:46:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Oct 2001 17:46:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1043 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2001 17:46:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Oct 2001 17:46:33 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vMdx-0007QY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 18:44:13 +0100 Received: from mailout02.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.17] helo=mailout02.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vMdw-0007QT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 18:44:12 +0100 Received: from fwd00.sul.t-online.de by mailout02.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 15vMd9-00049z-04; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 19:43:23 +0200 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.157.30.191]) by fwd00.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 15vMcy-15QpaSC; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 19:43:12 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: Re: LF: CFH? X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 19:43:12 +0200 Message-ID: <15vMcy-15QpaSC@fwd00.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz schrieb: > Dear LF group, > > Have occasionally been hearing FSK-like signals centred on about > 137.4kHz with various different shifts for some weeks now. These > have been quite weak here, and seem to fade in a DX fashion. > Much weaker than CFH though, and on a different frequency too. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > Hi Jim, Mal es All I do hear DDH47 on 137,40kHz; RTTY; 45Bd; shift 75 Hz. it is - 9.9kHz from 147,3kHz. the mirror + 9,9kHz I can receive too. is this the sig u receive ? is DDH47 strong over there ? what is the IF of ur RXs ? regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11846 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2001 13:00:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Oct 2001 13:00:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 19193 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2001 12:58:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Oct 2001 12:58:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vI9x-0006lu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 13:56:57 +0100 Received: from cmailenv2.svr.pol.co.uk ([213.218.77.54]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vI9w-0006lp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 13:56:56 +0100 Received: from [62.21.166.183] (helo=w8k3f0) by cmailENV2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15vI9G-0001KV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 12:56:15 +0000 Message-ID: <004c01c15a31$5faf35e0$338e153e@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001101c15997$35e4b7c0$c657073e@computer> Subject: LF: Re: LF Loading coil designs Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 15:06:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Consult "The low frequency Experimenter's Handbook", edited by Peter Dodd, G3LDO and sold by RSGB 73, Dick, PA0SE ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- Van: Martin Aan: Verzonden: zaterdag 20 oktober 2001 20:43 Onderwerp: LF: LF Loading coil designs > I presently have an 80m G5RV antenna and would like to get it to resonate on > 136. Height is around 25 feet in the middle running down centre of garden > with feeder dog legged to the side. I have put a drawing at > http://www.btinternet.com/~pangbourneonthames/m0mgm/lfant.jpg > > > Any thoughts on loading coil design to drive it from the output of a 100w > ropex would be apreciated. > > Martin > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 142 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2001 12:24:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Oct 2001 12:24:05 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 12007 invoked from network); 21 Oct 2001 12:22:44 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Oct 2001 12:22:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vHWF-0006fo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 13:15:55 +0100 Received: from smtp2.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.35.138] helo=smtp.wanadoo.nl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15vHWE-0006fj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 13:15:54 +0100 Received: from nl9222 (p1443.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.170.168]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f9LCF9828543 for ; Sun, 21 Oct 2001 14:15:09 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <200110211215.f9LCF9828543@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Sun, 21 Oct 2001 14:15:14 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Devil Inventions. X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by smtp.wanadoo.nl id f9LCF9828543 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello All.. For those linking or just using the software page [Anonymous or not] Things have been split up to: http://home.wanadoo.nl/nl9222/software.htm [QRSS, DFCW, VFSKCW, NBTV] http://home.wanadoo.nl/nl9222/digisoft.htm [DEVIL INVENTIONS / ALL THINGS DIGITAL] Main goal was Preventing: More than 10 second waiting for the page to load. Some from discovering that hamradio has evolved in other places the last 100 years!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! 73 Ko Versteeg, NL9222 [SWL] [Grid: JO22KE - Lat: 52° 12' 15.0"N Long: 04° 51' 40.5"E] Home: http://home.wanadoo.nl/nl9222/index.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6142 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2001 18:33:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Oct 2001 18:33:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 10105 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2001 18:33:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Oct 2001 18:33:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15v0uF-0004Wp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 19:31:35 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15v0uE-0004Wk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 19:31:35 +0100 Received: from [62.7.87.198] (helo=computer) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15v0tY-0004tZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 19:30:54 +0100 Message-ID: <001101c15997$35e4b7c0$c657073e@computer> From: "Martin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: LF Loading coil designs Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 19:43:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I presently have an 80m G5RV antenna and would like to get it to resonate on 136. Height is around 25 feet in the middle running down centre of garden with feeder dog legged to the side. I have put a drawing at http://www.btinternet.com/~pangbourneonthames/m0mgm/lfant.jpg Any thoughts on loading coil design to drive it from the output of a 100w ropex would be apreciated. Martin From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2388 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2001 17:57:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Oct 2001 17:57:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 8655 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2001 17:57:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Oct 2001 17:57:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15v0Lk-0004Ov-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 18:55:56 +0100 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15v0Lj-0004Oq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 18:55:55 +0100 Received: from [62.7.87.198] (helo=computer) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15v0L4-0002DC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 18:55:15 +0100 Message-ID: <001001c15992$3b9fa4e0$c657073e@computer> From: "Martin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <005001c15945$ff07c7c0$610ce03e@kwe> Subject: LF: Re: Fw: Needed: Schematic Datong Converter Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 19:02:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: You will find all the details of the datong converter @ http://www.sounds-good.co.uk/datong/ I think there are still 3 left to be sold out of the last batch made by Datong who no longer make armature products and now concentrate on commercial DF and surveillance. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 136 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2001 17:56:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Oct 2001 17:56:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 7521 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2001 17:56:15 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Oct 2001 17:56:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15v0Jo-0004Oo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 18:53:56 +0100 Received: from [204.202.140.198] (helo=gomailmta-bc.seamail.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15v0Jn-0004Oj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 18:53:55 +0100 Received: from gomailjtp05 ([10.212.0.165]) by mta06.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GLI004M0MZ6RK@mta06.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 10:52:18 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 10:52:21 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Sexton" Subject: Re: LF: G3JKV/QRP To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <6297715.1003600341266.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: and S7/8 here in Reading, John, G4CNN I would have called you, but by the time I got round to adjusting the variometer, you had gone :( -----Original Message----- From: "Tom Boucher" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat Oct 20 08:36:40 PDT 2001 Subject: LF: G3JKV/QRP >Walter G3JKV>Your QRP signals were 559 in Devon this morning at about 1140 local >time. >73, Tom G3OLB > ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Received: (qmail 8568 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2001 15:43:10 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Oct 2001 15:43:10 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21991 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2001 15:42:55 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Oct 2001 15:42:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15uyCU-000488-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 16:38:14 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.91]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15uyCT-000483-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 16:38:13 +0100 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15uyBo-0008Gb-0X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 16:37:33 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 16:36:40 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: LF: G3JKV/QRP MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 3.05 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Walter G3JKV Your QRP signals were 559 in Devon this morning at about 1140 local time. 73, Tom G3OLB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18206 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2001 13:31:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Oct 2001 13:31:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22258 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2001 13:30:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Oct 2001 13:30:10 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15uw6M-0003sW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 14:23:46 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15uw6L-0003sR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 14:23:45 +0100 Received: from ldsas18-82-133-222.cw-visp.com ([212.137.133.222] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15uvwe-0000vo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 13:13:44 +0000 Message-ID: <3BD13BB4.989B4B47@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 09:54:12 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Tx stability References: <200110170241_MC3-E390-116D@compuserve.com> <003501c1576c$29fe4a20$72597ad5@j1r9b7> <3BCF08F9.43B4E5C8@netscapeonline.co.uk> <3BD05787.A3AD328B@virgin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Stewart Bryant wrote: > > > > It is great to live north of Watford where we have freedom of speech and > > expression and plenty of real estate for real LF antenna experimentation and an > > abundance of MERCEDES BENZ to drive on roads still uncongested. > > G3KEV > > ... and where your transmitter can wander all over the band when you > make your first transmission of the day. > > Stewart Since the LF/VHF repeater link was installed down south, there are a number of strange transmissions taking place as reported on here. eg some one sending random letters etc others no doubt will be dabbling just to hear their own signal on vhf. I have heard come carriers swishing across the band lately and others tuning up I assume with auto dots etc This is probably what you are hearing. When I make adjustments with my system I use a very low power tracking osc microwatts and its unlikely that you would hear it at the distance. If the signal that you are hearing is loud then it will probably be local to you. I dont send dots either. I expect with newcomers to the band and those old timers returning there will be a certain amount of adjustments needed like tuning carriers, swishing, dotting and nervous fingers on keys. Dont let it get you down. Try a spectrum analysis and see where these unstable carriers eventually settle and get a positive result then let us all know. Until then be careful who you accuse. I think someone on here did suggest that there could be a person/persons fiddling about with old BK audio amps and sig generators on 136 khz. Maybe they want to hear themselves on the new LF/VHF repeater link. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27492 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2001 09:52:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Oct 2001 09:52:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 17581 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2001 09:52:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Oct 2001 09:52:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ushw-0003Qo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 10:46:20 +0100 Received: from mx.melange.net ([212.59.199.94] helo=lmta01-back.arrakis.isp) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ushu-0003Qj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 10:46:19 +0100 Received: from ssmtp03.melange.isp ([192.168.197.186]) by lmta01-back.arrakis.isp (8.11.2/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9K9jWR07145 for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 11:45:32 +0200 Received: from default ([195.5.79.148]) by ssmtp03.melange.isp (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15 ssmtp03 Jun 21 2001 23:53:48) with SMTP id GLI0FV03.L1Z for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 11:45:31 +0200 Message-ID: <00a901c1594b$c3ed1b80$134e05c3@default> From: "Irene & Les Whitehead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001901c157c5$c3923f80$bb8b153e@w8k3f0> <15ufsy-1Fj46LC@fwd00.sul.t-online.com> <007101c15942$43acdb80$134e05c3@default> Subject: Re: LF: Fw: Article on LF Coils in QEX Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 10:18:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Irene & Les Whitehead" To: Sent: Saturday, October 20, 2001 9:32 AM Subject: Re: LF: Fw: Article on LF Coils in QEX ----- Original Message ----- From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 9:04 PM Subject: Re: LF: Fw: Article on LF Coils in QEX > Dick Rollema schrieb: > > Dear OM, > > > > My message of 12:06 apparently was not passed on by the reflector so I now > > send it anew but without attachment. > > > > 73, Dick, PA0SE > > > Hi Dick, > would u pse send me the attachment direct ? > tks in advnc > Uwe/dj8wx dj8wx@qsl.net > > And me please tks in advnc mailto:whitehead@arrakis.es - - - - - From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1883 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2001 09:07:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Oct 2001 09:07:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 17259 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2001 09:05:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Oct 2001 09:05:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15us20-0003J5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 10:03:00 +0100 Received: from mailout03.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.81] helo=mailout03.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15us1z-0003J0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 10:02:59 +0100 Received: from fwd06.sul.t-online.de by mailout03.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 15us1K-0006Hr-08; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 11:02:18 +0200 Received: from kwe (0210461480-0001@[62.224.12.97]) by fwd06.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 15us1I-1ZRMUjC; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 11:02:16 +0200 Message-ID: <005001c15945$ff07c7c0$610ce03e@kwe> From: "docep" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Fw: Needed: Schematic Datong Converter Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 11:00:57 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: 0210461480-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Good morning, and thanks to Geri for helping me. I must make an amendement: the converter which needs to be fixed is the UC/2-type which covers the entire HF-band plus 2 meters. My version has four individual transistors in the mixer stage. Datong as a company could not help me anymore. Can anybody else? Mni tnx in advance 73 de Karsten, DK4AS -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW An: INTERNET:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: DK4AS Datum: Samstag, 20. Oktober 2001 07:02 Betreff: Needed: Schematic Datong Converter Hello LF Friends, Karsten, DK4AS has a Datong Converter that does not work. Has anyone of you got a schematic available, so that he can start his repair job? His e-mail address is docep.haan@t-online.de. Thanks and best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19067 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2001 08:42:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Oct 2001 08:42:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 27817 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2001 08:41:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Oct 2001 08:41:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ure5-0003ER-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 09:38:17 +0100 Received: from lmta02.melange.net ([212.59.199.93] helo=lmta02.arrakis.isp) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ure4-0003EM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 09:38:16 +0100 Received: from smux03.arrakis.isp (smta06.arrakis.isp [192.168.197.75]) by lmta02.arrakis.isp (8.11.2/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9K8bVR08591 for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 10:37:31 +0200 Received: from default ([195.5.78.19]) by smux03.arrakis.isp (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id GLHXAH08.14H for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 10:37:29 +0200 Message-ID: <007101c15942$43acdb80$134e05c3@default> From: "Irene & Les Whitehead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001901c157c5$c3923f80$bb8b153e@w8k3f0> <15ufsy-1Fj46LC@fwd00.sul.t-online.com> Subject: Re: LF: Fw: Article on LF Coils in QEX Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 09:32:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 9:04 PM Subject: Re: LF: Fw: Article on LF Coils in QEX > Dick Rollema schrieb: > > Dear OM, > > > > My message of 12:06 apparently was not passed on by the reflector so I now > > send it anew but without attachment. > > > > 73, Dick, PA0SE > > > Hi Dick, > would u pse send me the attachment direct ? > tks in advnc > Uwe/dj8wx dj8wx@qsl.net > > And me please tks in advnc g6xjcwhitehead@arrakis.es"- - - - From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1670 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2001 07:49:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Oct 2001 07:49:14 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 12579 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2001 07:49:03 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Oct 2001 07:49:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15uqpY-000369-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 08:46:04 +0100 Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.35]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15uqpX-00035s-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 08:46:04 +0100 Received: from WesBilton@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.8.) id l.63.648e62 (4012) for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 03:44:48 -0400 (EDT) From: WesBilton@aol.com Message-ID: <63.648e62.29028570@aol.com> Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 03:44:48 EDT Subject: Re: LF: Needed: Schematic Datong Converter To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 10505 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Datong Electronics may help. The address is
Datong Electronics Ltd. Clayton Wood Close, West Park, Leeds,UK   LS16 6QE
Phone Number  +44 0 113 274 4822 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28747 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2001 07:47:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Oct 2001 07:47:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3628 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2001 07:47:09 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Oct 2001 07:47:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15uqlp-00035h-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 08:42:13 +0100 Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.104]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15uqln-00035c-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 08:42:12 +0100 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.8.) id l.151.2bf4d22 (17527) for ; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 03:41:26 -0400 (EDT) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <151.2bf4d22.290284a6@aol.com> Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 03:41:26 EDT Subject: LF: Re: Re: dcf39/dk8kw To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 10504 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Uwe and group,

About the "mysterious"(?)  carrier observed on DCF/DBF (I think DBF is their spare transmitter):
As Uwe wrote:

>sri, Markus, but the screenshot does`nt convince me.
>sri, Wolfgang, I do not belief in "Kohärenzprobleme".


In a direct mail to Uwe I called it "non-coherent signal",  but it meant exactly the same as Markus (DF6NM) explained here on the reflector a few hours later. I don't think there is any mysterious very-narrow-bandwidth coding.

DCF39 is intended to be received by simple receivers; and the transmitter simply does not care for a coherent carrier just because a few radio amateurs would like to use it as a high-precision reference (hi).


The reason for the incoherent carrier signal maybe this (with my basic knowledge ):
Switching from the "space" frequency to the "mark" frequency in the TX is done when the carrier signal Y(t) crosses zero. After an integer number of full sine wave periods (when Y(t) is zero again), the frequency is switched back again. This will not necessarily be the old phase of the "space" frequency before a data bit. So, as an effect, there is no coherent phase - as explained before.

You could verify this with an audio phase meter. I did this some time ago and could see the phase meter jump around after every pulse train, but could not find a rule. Maybe the amount of phase shift is simply a result of the count of "ones" in the databits.


> I will see my friends at the Radio-Monitoring-Station Itzehoe
> (RegTP-Aussenstelle) to solve the problem (I make it my problem)
> by analysing the frequenzy using their equipment (I have been
> member of the staff).

Please let me know the results.

Good luck,
 Wolf DL4YHF

(now off to look for Dave G(M)3YXM in simple CW without coherence problems. No kite-friendly WX here at the moment,  nothing but blue sky and sun)





From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25440 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2001 05:09:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Oct 2001 05:09:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15422 invoked from network); 20 Oct 2001 05:08:51 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Oct 2001 05:08:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15uoI2-0002oY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 06:03:18 +0100 Received: from siaag2ae.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.135]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15uoI1-0002oT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 06:03:17 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2ae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id BAA27397; Sat, 20 Oct 2001 01:02:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 20 Oct 2001 01:02:12 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Needed: Schematic Datong Converter To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: "DK4AS" Message-ID: <200110200102_MC3-E3EF-C95C@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LF Friends, Karsten, DK4AS has a Datong Converter that does not work. Has anyone of you got a schematic available, so that he can start his repair job? His e-mail address is docep.haan@t-online.de. Thanks and best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16299 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2001 20:14:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Oct 2001 20:14:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 2736 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2001 20:14:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Oct 2001 20:14:21 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15uftr-0001ij-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 21:05:47 +0100 Received: from mailout03.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.81] helo=mailout03.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15uftp-0001id-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 21:05:46 +0100 Received: from fwd00.sul.t-online.de by mailout03.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 15uft8-00036Z-0A; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 22:05:02 +0200 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.156.6.202]) by fwd00.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 15ufsx-1Fj46KC; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 22:04:51 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200110151812.f9FICno01937@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Subject: Re: LF: dcf39/dk8kw X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 22:04:51 +0200 Message-ID: <15ufsx-1Fj46KC@fwd00.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Ko, Wolfgang, Markus es All. Ko, thank you for the hint. Gspec is really a fine help. but sri the resolution is not sufficient measuring 10mHz or less. may be it is`nt neccessary any more analysing the mark of DCF39 whether there is a keying in it or not. Markus wrote: >There is no extra narrowband modulation. The widening of the mark spectral >line is simply caused by the normal FSK bursts (200 bd, 340 Hz shift) which >are sent at irregular intervals, at least once in every 12 seconds. and Wolf(gang) wrote in a direct e-mail: > Leider ist die > Frequenztastung nicht kohärent, d.h. die Phase des "Trägers" bei 138.8300 kHz > kehrt nach dem kurzen Impulspaket nicht zum ursprünglichen Wert zurück. But when I do compare the DCF A0 (the mark between two bursts) with the A0 of p.e.Deutsche Welle (A3BC) using SpecLab or Gspec it seems there is something in the DCF-mark that looks intentionally (phase keying ?) not to be seen on other A0s. sri, Markus, but the screenshot does`nt convince me. sri, Wolfgang, I do not belief in "Kohärenzprobleme". the simplest would be questioning the staff at DCF. but would one get the truth out of them ? I will see my friends at the Radio-Monitoring-Station Itzehoe (RegTP-Aussenstelle) to solve the problem (I make it my problem) by analysing the frequenzy using their equipment (I have been member of the staff). will do it soon. sri at time I`m vy busy doing my job (mayor). regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1797 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2001 20:13:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Oct 2001 20:13:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28807 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2001 20:11:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Oct 2001 20:11:46 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ufts-0001ip-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 21:05:48 +0100 Received: from mailout03.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.81] helo=mailout03.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15uftr-0001ii-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 21:05:47 +0100 Received: from fwd00.sul.t-online.de by mailout03.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 15uft8-00036Z-0C; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 22:05:02 +0200 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.156.6.202]) by fwd00.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 15ufsy-1Fj46LC; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 22:04:52 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001901c157c5$c3923f80$bb8b153e@w8k3f0> Subject: Re: LF: Fw: Article on LF Coils in QEX X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 22:04:52 +0200 Message-ID: <15ufsy-1Fj46LC@fwd00.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dick Rollema schrieb: > Dear OM, > > My message of 12:06 apparently was not passed on by the reflector so I now > send it anew but without attachment. > > 73, Dick, PA0SE > Hi Dick, would u pse send me the attachment direct ? tks in advnc Uwe/dj8wx dj8wx@qsl.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3811 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2001 17:57:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Oct 2001 17:57:34 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10056 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2001 17:56:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Oct 2001 17:56:14 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15udoa-0001RO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 18:52:12 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15udoZ-0001RJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 18:52:11 +0100 Received: from ldsas07-71-122-139.cw-visp.com ([212.137.122.139] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15udet-0003Rf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 17:42:12 +0000 Message-ID: <3BD059AC.A460BD5E@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 17:49:49 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Tx stability References: <200110170241_MC3-E390-116D@compuserve.com> <003501c1576c$29fe4a20$72597ad5@j1r9b7> <3BCF08F9.43B4E5C8@netscapeonline.co.uk> <3BD05787.A3AD328B@virgin.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Stewart Bryant wrote: > > > > It is great to live north of Watford where we have freedom of speech and > > expression and plenty of real estate for real LF antenna experimentation and an > > abundance of MERCEDES BENZ to drive on roads still uncongested. > > G3KEV > > ... and where your transmitter can wander all over the band when you > make your first transmission of the day. Sri to disappoint you but its impossible for my tx to wander, driven by the FT1000 as a driving source. I also monitor the outgoing signal on a spectrum analyzer. I seldom need to adjust the tuning but when I do it is carried out using a tracking osc with micro/watts. I have heard swishing and dots lately, expect its someone tuning/adjusting but there was no call sent, it was especially noticeable over the week end. Get your fact right before pointing the FINGER om. Try your next victim. G3KEV > > > Stewart From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2851 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2001 17:43:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Oct 2001 17:43:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4705 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2001 17:42:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Oct 2001 17:42:07 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15udaJ-0001NE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 18:37:27 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15udaI-0001N9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 18:37:26 +0100 Received: from ldsas11-75-126-205.cw-visp.com ([212.137.126.205] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15udQc-00022c-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 17:27:27 +0000 Message-ID: <3BD040C2.9BB09D49@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 16:03:30 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: MB7LF Remote receiver relay References: <200110170241_MC3-E390-116D@compuserve.com> <003501c1576c$29fe4a20$72597ad5@j1r9b7> <3BCF08F9.43B4E5C8@netscapeonline.co.uk> <3BD0414C.5BA24DA5@nephro.uni-kiel.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: "Peter W. Schnoor" wrote: > gii3kev wrote: > > > It is great to live north of Watford where we have freedom of speech and > > expression and plenty of real estate for real LF antenna experimentation and an > > abundance of MERCEDES BENZ to drive on roads still uncongested. > > G3KEV > > Sold my old 450 SE (silver, steering wheel left) Probably the worlds best engineered motor although others are catching up. They have always been my first choice. Would not be without one or even two !! I hope you bought another one ? G3KEV > > recently. > > Now driven by a Consultant Psychiatrist/East > London... > > 73 es gl de DF3LP, > Peter From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29179 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2001 17:41:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Oct 2001 17:41:34 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1566 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2001 17:40:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Oct 2001 17:40:19 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15udaO-0001NL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 18:37:32 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15udaN-0001NG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 18:37:31 +0100 Received: from ldsas11-75-126-205.cw-visp.com ([212.137.126.205] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15udQh-00022q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 17:27:32 +0000 Message-ID: <3BD04589.76A8F1AB@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 16:23:53 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: LF antennas and Mercedes References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz wrote: > Dear Mal, LF group, > > >....and plenty of real estate for real LF antenna experimentation >and an abundance of MERCEDES BENZ to drive on roads still >uncongested. G3KEV > > You keep making tantalising references to these mysterious antenna experiments Nothing mysterious, lots of hard work making improvements. Its never ending !! Listen to my signals and judge the results for yourself. > - perhaps you could share some of the results with the rest of the LF group. I'm particularly interested to know how Mercedes figure with regard to LF - do you use them for antenna top loading, or bury them for improved grounding perhaps? I suppose if you laid enough of them end-to-end along an uncongested road, you could make a sort of Beverage antenna. Two end to end is the best that I can do. > > > As an amateur with a QTH only a few miles north of Watford, my budget for LF experiments probably wouldn't run to a single Mercedes, let alone an abundance of them - do you think Fords or Ladas would be a workable sustitute? No there is no substitute for the real thing. Others are getting close but the ones that you refer to are unmentionable. G3KEV > > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2613 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2001 17:13:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Oct 2001 17:13:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 18287 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2001 17:13:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Oct 2001 17:13:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ud94-0001IV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 18:09:18 +0100 Received: from cobalt4.source.net ([206.100.10.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ud93-0001IP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 18:09:17 +0100 Received: from parissn2 (AMontsouris-101-1-3-195.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.252.108.195]) by cobalt4.source.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA03989 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:08:34 -0700 Message-ID: <002601c158c0$c7a44040$0400000a@parissn2> From: "Stewart Nelson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: Re: LF: LF antennas and Mercedes Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 19:09:13 +0200 Organization: SC Group MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi David and all, Jim's message, sent with Pegasus, had mime type text/enriched, and indeed had the control codes. However, it doesn't seem to be valid rtf data. I'm running OE 6 under Win XP here, and OE stripped off the control codes but did not interpret them. I'm not surprised that your AOL 6 just treated it as plain text. That's the conservative thing to do; you don't lose any data and you won't have problems if malicious content is present. I tried saving the file as a .rtf and opening in MS Word. It displayed the control codes verbatim. I don't know enough about rich text to say what's wrong. I am also puzzled why the message had that mime type in the first place. Jim's messages are normally plain text, and I believe that he was replying to Derek, whose message was also plain text, and no other messages were included. 73, Stewart ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, October 19, 2001 5:40 PM Subject: Re: LF: LF antennas and Mercedes > In a message dated 10/19/01 1:36:29 PM GMT Daylight Time, > j.r.moritz@herts.ac.uk writes: > > > > As an amateur with a QTH only a few miles north of Watford, my > > budget for LF experiments0100,0100,0100 > > probably wouldn't run to a single > > Mercedes, let alone an abundance of them - do you think Fords or > > Ladas would be a workable sustitute? > > > > > > > > Is it just me getting all these control codes in with the text? > > David G0MRF > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22863 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2001 16:47:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Oct 2001 16:47:04 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9118 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2001 16:46:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Oct 2001 16:46:53 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15uci1-0001DO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 17:41:21 +0100 Received: from mrwint.cisco.com ([198.135.0.176] helo=cisco.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15uci0-0001DI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 17:41:20 +0100 Received: from virgin.net (ams-clip-vpn-dhcp4117.cisco.com [10.50.16.20]) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA05034 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 17:40:03 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <3BD05787.A3AD328B@virgin.net> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 17:40:39 +0100 From: "Stewart Bryant" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Tx stability References: <200110170241_MC3-E390-116D@compuserve.com> <003501c1576c$29fe4a20$72597ad5@j1r9b7> <3BCF08F9.43B4E5C8@netscapeonline.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > > It is great to live north of Watford where we have freedom of speech and > expression and plenty of real estate for real LF antenna experimentation and an > abundance of MERCEDES BENZ to drive on roads still uncongested. > G3KEV ... and where your transmitter can wander all over the band when you make your first transmission of the day. Stewart From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21755 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2001 16:05:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Oct 2001 16:05:52 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 19841 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2001 16:05:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Oct 2001 16:05:41 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ubwz-00013o-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 16:52:45 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ubwz-00013j-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 16:52:45 +0100 Received: from ldsas01-65-116-52.cw-visp.com ([212.137.116.52] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15ubnJ-0002zu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 15:42:45 +0000 Message-ID: <3BD03E1B.76D106F0@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 15:52:11 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: CFH Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: There is definitely intermittent acty on 137 khz at times possibly CFH, but there is also other acty at times around 137.4 khz maybe related on maybe not. This is not TV spurii, my antennas are not in a domestic/industrial environment. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20675 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2001 15:49:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Oct 2001 15:49:34 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29179 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2001 15:48:19 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Oct 2001 15:48:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ubmK-00011X-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 16:41:44 +0100 Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.161]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ubmJ-00011M-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 16:41:43 +0100 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.8.) id l.bb.158da021 (4355) for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 11:40:29 -0400 (EDT) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 11:40:28 EDT Subject: Re: LF: LF antennas and Mercedes To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 10505 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit In a message dated 10/19/01 1:36:29 PM GMT Daylight Time, j.r.moritz@herts.ac.uk writes:


As an amateur with a QTH only a few miles north of Watford, my
budget </color>for LF experiments<color><param>0100,0100,0100</param> probably wouldn't run to a single
Mercedes, let alone an abundance of them - do you think Fords or
Ladas would be a workable sustitute?




Is it just me getting all these control codes in with the text?

David G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18303 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2001 15:25:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Oct 2001 15:25:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 15250 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2001 15:25:10 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Oct 2001 15:25:10 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ubEo-0000v3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 16:07:06 +0100 Received: from ims.rz.uni-kiel.de ([134.245.1.88]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ubEm-0000ux-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 16:07:04 +0100 Received: from srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de by ims.rz.uni-kiel.de with Local-SMTP (PP); Fri, 19 Oct 2001 17:05:59 +0200 Received: from nephro.uni-kiel.de (PC110207.dial.uni-kiel.de [134.245.110.207]) by srv1.mail.uni-kiel.de (8.10.2+Sun/8.10.2) with ESMTP id f9JF5uS05756 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 17:05:56 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <3BD0414C.5BA24DA5@nephro.uni-kiel.de> Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 17:05:48 +0200 From: "Peter W. Schnoor" Organization: Clinic of Nephrology, University of Kiel X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.74 [en] (X11; U; Linux 2.2.16 i586) X-Accept-Language: de-DE, en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: MB7LF Remote receiver relay References: <200110170241_MC3-E390-116D@compuserve.com> <003501c1576c$29fe4a20$72597ad5@j1r9b7> <3BCF08F9.43B4E5C8@netscapeonline.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: gii3kev wrote: > It is great to live north of Watford where we have freedom of speech and > expression and plenty of real estate for real LF antenna experimentation and an > abundance of MERCEDES BENZ to drive on roads still uncongested. > G3KEV Sold my old 450 SE (silver, steering wheel left) recently. Now driven by a Consultant Psychiatrist/East London... 73 es gl de DF3LP, Peter From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4214 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2001 12:37:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Oct 2001 12:37:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 20608 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2001 12:36:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Oct 2001 12:36:56 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15uYp7-0000Xa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 13:32:25 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15uYp5-0000XV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 13:32:23 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15uYoQ-00054r-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 13:31:42 +0100 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15uYoP-0000Xp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 13:31:41 +0100 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 13:34:55 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: LF antennas and Mercedes X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Mal, LF group,

>....and plenty of real estate for real LF antenna experimentation >and an abundance of MERCEDES BENZ to drive on roads still >uncongested. G3KEV

You keep making tantalising references to these mysterious antenna experiments - perhaps you could share some of the results with the rest of the LF group. I'm particularly interested to know how Mercedes figure with regard to LF - do you use them for antenna top loading, or bury them for improved grounding perhaps? I suppose if you laid enough of them end-to-end along an uncongested road, you could make a sort of Beverage antenna.

As an amateur with a QTH only a few miles north of Watford, my budget for LF experiments probably wouldn't run to a single Mercedes, let alone an abundance of them - do you think Fords or Ladas w ould be a workable sustitute?

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28925 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2001 12:04:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Oct 2001 12:04:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 8635 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2001 12:04:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Oct 2001 12:04:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15uYHg-0000Pf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 12:57:52 +0100 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15uYHe-0000Pa-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 12:57:51 +0100 Received: from [217.35.24.69] (helo=dellboy) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15uYGz-0002Aw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 12:57:09 +0100 Message-ID: <001101c15895$2803e5c0$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002001c15886$5d28c720$07f07ad5@default> Subject: LF: Re: Propagation conditions Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 12:56:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks Alan. I'll be up in North-West Scotland at the weekend so may get to see the Northern Lights at last! Listen out for a signal from Ullapool if the weather is OK for kites! 73. Dave G(M)3YXM(/P) > Sky watchers, especially those living at higher latitudes, could > spot both meteors and auroras this weekend. > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13249 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2001 11:57:51 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Oct 2001 11:57:51 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6602 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2001 11:57:40 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Oct 2001 11:57:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15uYB0-0000Od-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 12:50:58 +0100 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15uYAz-0000OY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 12:50:57 +0100 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (216.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.216]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f9JBoIV27373 for ; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 12:50:18 +0100 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011019120822.00aa0c90@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 12:49:06 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: Finbars' big sig MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Congrats Finbar EI0CF you've been 15 dB over noise here most mornings this week also via MB7LF. Considerably stronger than you used to be. Called you but only have 100 mW tx so forlorn hope. OH1TN on most mornings but only just above noise. G3YXM beacon strength. Who's that sending strings of dots and swishing about all over the band???? Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3491 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2001 10:24:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Oct 2001 10:24:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 11044 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2001 10:23:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Oct 2001 10:23:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15uWhy-0000Br-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 11:16:54 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15uWht-0000Bm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 11:16:50 +0100 Received: from [213.1.104.92] (helo=default) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15uWhD-0001oQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 11:16:08 +0100 Message-ID: <002001c15886$5d28c720$07f07ad5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Propagation conditions Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 10:38:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, The item below was just received from the spaceweather site..... ----------------------------- Space Weather News for October 19, 2001 http://www.spaceweather.com Twisted magnetic fields above sunspot 9661 erupted this morning, unleashing an X-class solar flare and hurling a coronal mass ejection toward Earth. The expanding cloud will likely strike our planet's magnetosphere on October 21st during the peak of the Orionid meteor shower. Sky watchers, especially those living at higher latitudes, could spot both meteors and auroras this weekend. Stay tuned to SpaceWeather.com for details and updates. ------------------------------------ The flare which was an X1.6 Class occurred at about 0100z so would not provide any enhancement in Europe. There was an 'after flare' at about 0600z with a level of about M1.1 which would be enough to 'fill-in' the morning dip. There is significant rise in the proton flux and this could lead to slightly enhanced conditions during daylight today. The CME is scheduled to arrive around the 21st (look for a rise in Kp to 6 or 7, depending on the orientation of the plasma field) The resultant ions should start to affect LF at mid-latitudes by about 24 or 25th and last for 2 or three days. This should lead to improved daytime conditions, but probably to higher absorption and depressed levels at night. We might look for improved DX conditions at night by around the end of the month as the effect decays away, leaving a some slow multipath fading to boost signals at times. Happy DX hunting Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23282 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2001 05:23:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Oct 2001 05:23:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 14870 invoked from network); 19 Oct 2001 05:23:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Oct 2001 05:23:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15uS2l-00087Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 06:18:03 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15uS2k-00087U-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 06:18:02 +0100 Received: from [213.122.95.238] (helo=dave) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15uS25-0007OG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 19 Oct 2001 06:17:22 +0100 Message-ID: <000401c1585d$81f1e100$ee5f7ad5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" References: <001901c157c5$c3923f80$bb8b153e@w8k3f0> Subject: LF: Re: Fw: Article on LF Coils in QEX Date: Fri, 19 Oct 2001 06:18:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC PA0SE wrote: >This means that the total resistance in the antenna-earth-system is no more than 12 - 16 ohms! Wow! I am struggling to get the earth loss of my new vertical down below 400 ohms. Some people don't know how lucky they are. 73s Dave dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10845 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2001 21:38:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Oct 2001 21:38:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 4736 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2001 21:37:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 18 Oct 2001 21:37:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15uKnf-0007FU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 22:33:59 +0100 Received: from tor-smtp4.attcanada.ca ([207.181.101.72] helo=attcanada.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15uKnd-0007FO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 22:33:57 +0100 Received: from david (ham-on52-045.netcom.ca [142.154.65.45]) by attcanada.ca (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7) with SMTP id RAA24420 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:32:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <00e401c15813$f82239a0$de419a8e@david> From: "Tenty" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200110170241_MC3-E390-116D@compuserve.com> <003501c1576c$29fe4a20$72597ad5@j1r9b7> <3BCF08F9.43B4E5C8@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: Re: LF: Re: MB7LF Remote receiver relay Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 21:32:00 +0100 Organization: Holland Data and Wireless MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2462.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: "I am speaking on behalf of the majority" Is often abused by a minority to pursue their own agenda who thinks their idea of experimentation is the only one mandated by the almighty himself! And what about the freedom to experiment? Awards, qsl cards are a personal thing and if you cheat you cheat yourself.. Don't deny somebody elses experiment because one of these days he/she may deny yours! 73, Bob ve3tok ----- Original Message ----- From: "gii3kev" Actually 3 according to this message disagree. Currently if you count the number of LF operators ACTIVE on 136 khz and 73 khz from the UK this represents nearly 50 percent that disagree with vhf/uhf linking. Seeing the other mans point of view I can see what you are doing but who can tell if someone in the South of England within ear shot of the vhf link works DX actually heard the dx direct on LF or via the vhf RX REMOTE LINK. This could encourage cheating for award claims. I can also assure you that a good number of other radio amateurs active on LF and interested are against what you are doing, but they do not wish to get involved with the politics of LF. It is great to live north of Watford where we have freedom of speech and expression and plenty of real estate for real LF antenna experimentation and an abundance of MERCEDES BENZ to drive on roads still uncongested. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12957 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2001 18:10:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO guinness.servers.plus.net) (212.159.3.230) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Oct 2001 18:10:13 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 19442 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2001 17:57:12 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (212.172.148.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Oct 2001 17:57:12 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15uHQM-0006oy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 18:57:42 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15uHQK-0006ot-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 18:57:40 +0100 Received: from ldsas12-76-127-214.cw-visp.com ([212.137.127.214] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15uHGe-00013l-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:47:41 +0000 Message-ID: <3BCF08F9.43B4E5C8@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 17:53:13 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: MB7LF Remote receiver relay References: <200110170241_MC3-E390-116D@compuserve.com> <003501c1576c$29fe4a20$72597ad5@j1r9b7> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Derek Atter wrote: > >From Derek Atter G3GRO, > > Many thanks for the many messages of support received via the LF Reflector > and also for the support given at the well attended sessions of the LF Forum > at the recent HF/LF Convention at Windsor regarding the establishment of > the remote receiver system GB7LF. > > I regret that one or two LF operators Actually 3 according to this message disagree. Currently if you count the number of LF operators ACTIVE on 136 khz and 73 khz from the UK this represents nearly 50 percent that disagree with vhf/uhf linking. Seeing the other mans point of view I can see what you are doing but who can tell if someone in the South of England within ear shot of the vhf link works DX actually heard the dx direct on LF or via the vhf RX REMOTE LINK. This could encourage cheating for award claims. I can also assure you that a good number of other radio amateurs active on LF and interested are against what you are doing, but they do not wish to get involved with the politics of LF. It is great to live north of Watford where we have freedom of speech and expression and plenty of real estate for real LF antenna experimentation and an abundance of MERCEDES BENZ to drive on roads still uncongested. G3KEV > have expressed objection to the basic > idea of the LF relay. The derogatory response from G3KEV was predictable and > about par for the course and is just one more in a long line of similar > outbursts. I was however more sorry to read the views expressed by Steve > GW4ALG and Dave G3YMC with whom I have had many a enjoyable QSO. I hope > perhaps Steve you will on reflection not say farewell yet to the LF bands - > that would be such a pity. The 136kHz band can ill aford to lose such an > active operator and experimenter. To clarify things would like to emphasise > the following points : > > (1) The system should not be regarded in the same light as a 2m FM repeater. > It is an experiment to provide a remote receiver whose main function is to > overcome the problems of local noise and not to act as an intermediate > repeater intended to extend the range coverage. A second objective is to > encourage more interest in LF activity locally and there are already signs > that members of other clubs have started monitoring activity on 136kHz via > the relay receiver. The fear that somehow this will encourage more "black > box" operation seems to me to be irrelevant since most of us use commercial > receivers already and a 136kHz transmitter and antenna system is still > needed to make a QSO. We did not have in mind its use in achieving awards > or records when establishing the remote receiver but to avoid any confusion > as to the signal path, we will be encouraging the practice of adding "RX via > MB7LF" to outgoing signal reports on 136kHz. > > (2) The licence is held by the RSGB and delegated by them to the relay > keeper. At the end of the first year of operation we will review it and if > the general consensus of LF operators (perhaps after discussion at the next > HF Convention) is that it is not a good thing, then we will shut it down. > > (3) The system is not yet optimised since it was put together in a very > short time in order to support the LF special event station MB2HFC at the HF > Convention at Windsor. As has been said elsewhere on the reflector, without > its use it would not have been possible to operate a viable demonstration > station as was found last year due to the local noise level. Or should we > have just sat on our hands and missed the opportunity to encourage more LF > interest among a wider audience? We opted to use initially an active > antenna with only a 1.2m whip only 30ft AGL operating in conjunction a fixed > loop to null out Loran to demonstrate the potential of active receiving > antennas in support of the talk by Andre' N1ICK on the AMRAD antenna. > Although the antenna system maybe not yet be optimised, it was clearly > working reasonably well since we managed to work as far as Finbar EI0CF at > Malin Head at the northern tip of Eire and down to F6BWO in the opposite > direction in Chaumont, SE of Paris, both being in the region of 600km > distance. As part of the experiment it is planned in future as an > alternative to the active antenna, to patch in to the Crawley Club 360ft > inverted "L" antenna which is up at around 60ft AGL. We also plan to > experiment with a very long terminated half-loop antenna similar to that > being currently being used so successfully by Laurie G3AQC pointed at > Lessay to null out Loran. > > Finally, it's early days yet. We believe that the project is in the amateur > tradition of experiment as several of the mesages posted on the reflector > have already said. We would also like to pay tribute to the UK Radio > Licensing Authority and the RSGB for the speed with which they processed > the licence application and their helpful comments on the way > > Vy 73, de Derek Atter G3GRO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13917 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2001 11:12:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Oct 2001 11:12:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 10198 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2001 11:11:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 18 Oct 2001 11:11:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15uAvt-0005wG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:01:49 +0100 Received: from cmailenv1.svr.pol.co.uk ([213.218.77.53]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15uAvr-0005wB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 12:01:47 +0100 Received: from [62.21.139.187] (helo=w8k3f0) by cmailENV1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15uAvA-0001mK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:01:04 +0000 Message-ID: <001901c157c5$c3923f80$bb8b153e@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Fw: Article on LF Coils in QEX Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 13:11:39 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Dear OM,
 
My message of 12:06 apparently was not passed on by the reflector so I now send it anew but without attachment.
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
 
----- Oorspronkelijk bericht -----
Aan: LF-Group
Verzonden: donderdag 18 oktober 2001 12:06
Onderwerp: Article on LF Coils in QEX

Dear OM,
 
The ARRL publication QEX (incorporating Communications Quaterly) of September/October 2001 features a seven page article by Paolo Antoniazzi, IW2ACD and Marco Arecco, IK2WAQ: "The Art of Making and Measuring LF Coils" with subtitle "Large, high-quality coils are an important factor in working the LF bands succesfully. This short note on the specific art describes good quality-factor coils (Q around 600) for 136 kHz".
The attached table comes from the article (I hope it survives the Reflector..)
 
It is interesting that the coils with the lowest Q (205) uses a 16cm PVC tube as a former. I use the same material as a former but obtained Q = 350. But in my case the former was made by bolting four 12.5cm PVC tubes together, resulting in a square former with 25cm sides and rounded corners (see cover of G3LDO's The low frequency experimenter's handbook). 
 
The Italian auhors have made a simple linear amplifier for 136kHz using an audio IC type TDA 7265. On 136kHz it produces 3 - 4W. The authors state: "This power is more than adequate for LF systems tests, generating up to 0.5 A of antenna current". 
This means that the total resistance in the antenna-earth-system is no more than 12 - 16 ohms!
The article says: "A single 3 meter rod of 16 mm diameter driven into soil with 100 ohm/meter average resistivity will have a ground resistance (measured at 50 - 60 Hz) of 30 - 50 ohm. Using four parallel rods placed at 10 - 15 m in a square will give a final LF resistance of 10 - 15 ohm". 
I think the authors are very fortunate to live on that kind of ground!    
 
The antenna used for the measurements is reported to consist of "vertical (Marconi) rod of  7 - 10 meters isolated from ground using a plastic plate. About 40 - 50 meters (130 - 160 feet)  of horizontal wires (hat) are connected atop the Marconi antenna to realize a 450 pF totale antenna capacity".
 
The same issue of QEX has another article on a related subject, written by George Murphy, VE3ERP: "The Q of Single-Layer, Air-Core Coils: A Mathematical Analysis". This 5 page article tries to find Q of a coil using theory only.
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28322 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2001 10:27:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Oct 2001 10:27:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 22061 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2001 10:27:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 18 Oct 2001 10:27:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15uALI-0005pF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:24:00 +0100 Received: from tomts8.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.52] helo=tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15uALH-0005p5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 11:23:59 +0100 Received: from server1 ([216.209.110.43]) by tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20011018102247.QODQ11986.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 06:22:47 -0400 Message-ID: <001f01c157be$cd1b3680$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: CFH? Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 06:22:24 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jim: > Have occasionally been hearing FSK-like signals centred on about > 137.4kHz with various different shifts for some weeks now. Not sure what these FSK signals are but the are most certainly NOT CFH. Other than some tests in the daytime a bit back CFH has not been on the air at all on 137.000 With most of our active Navy gone now, it is not likely we will hear CFH much while they are busy north of HZ1. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9777 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2001 09:40:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Oct 2001 09:40:14 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4550 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2001 09:39:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 18 Oct 2001 09:39:57 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15u9XT-0005fS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:32:31 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15u9XS-0005fN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:32:31 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15u9Wn-00061e-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:31:49 +0100 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15u9Wn-0005kv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:31:49 +0100 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 10:35:01 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: CFH? X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF group, Have occasionally been hearing FSK-like signals centred on about 137.4kHz with various different shifts for some weeks now. These have been quite weak here, and seem to fade in a DX fashion. Much weaker than CFH though, and on a different frequency too. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17460 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2001 07:00:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Oct 2001 07:00:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 3823 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2001 07:00:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 18 Oct 2001 07:00:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15u77O-0005LB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 07:57:26 +0100 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15u77N-0005L6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 07:57:25 +0100 Received: from [213.122.90.130] (helo=dave) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15u76i-0000AL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 07:56:44 +0100 Message-ID: <001701c157a2$373abf80$825a7ad5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: re: CFH Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 07:38:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC G3KEV reports hearing RTTY signals on 137.0kHz. Last winter and the year before I consistently heard CFH around the dawn period at s9++. I have heard nothing now for many months, and am confident that it is not on the air at the moment. And no sign of RTTY signals on that frequency either. Perhaps it is a local TV birdie or similar to Mal, or a receive intermodulation product. 73s Dave dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8634 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2001 06:44:21 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Oct 2001 06:44:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 19785 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2001 06:44:04 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 18 Oct 2001 06:44:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15u6rr-0005J9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 07:41:23 +0100 Received: from ns3.swh.sk ([192.108.125.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15u6rq-0005J4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 07:41:22 +0100 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes.swh.sk [192.108.125.60]) by ns3.swh.sk (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9I6jD812851 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 08:45:13 +0200 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA16620 for ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 08:40:32 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 08:40:29 +0200 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E0333BFF7@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: Who ? Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 08:40:28 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi LF-ers... Yeasterday I was on 137.0 and I heard a station calling me for a long time, but we have high QRN level in Slovakia. I'm not sure, but it should be SM3...another station on the band G3KEV (599), also Cesare I5TGC was audible when he transmit on QRSS. It looks like very good propagations on LF... 73 de Rich OM2TW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24914 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2001 03:36:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Oct 2001 03:36:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 23946 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2001 03:35:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 18 Oct 2001 03:35:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15u3tU-00050n-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 04:30:52 +0100 Received: from mail.ifx.com.br ([200.201.133.66] helo=mail01.ifx.com.br) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15u3tS-00050e-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 04:30:51 +0100 Received: (qmail 7141 invoked by uid 505); 18 Oct 2001 03:29:21 -0000 Received: from py2pll@py.qsl.br by mail01.ifx.com.br with qmail-scanner-0.96 (. Clean. Processed in 0.507633 secs); 18 Oct 2001 03:29:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO P800) (200.201.142.114) by mail01.ifx.com.br with SMTP; 18 Oct 2001 03:29:20 -0000 Message-ID: <022001c15785$1eb611c0$8f8ec9c8@P800> From: "PY3CRX PY2PLL" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: Re: LF: Re: just a test from South America Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 01:11:13 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Rafael ... > My antennas are 2m loop and Marconi > T with base load and variometer for use with TX. So please, try to catch two signals, the same modulation scheme (seems SITOR at a slower baudrate) at 133.3 and 146.5KHz ... This are the FSK center frequencies. Please, verify them with your loop if possible. I´ll do the same here untill next sunday. May be we can locate them. Another friend from Sta Maria told me he can pick those signals at night. > For TX I thing build a 4 x > IRF540 FETS G3YXM style (if I get the special authorization from > ANATEL...) It´s a good solution ... I have some IRFs here (630 I guess) ... and a surplus "C" core switched power supply transformer that used to run on 80KHz (5V @ 100A). The secondary is just a copper strip, isolated but wound over itself, 5 turns. It´s a vy low Z source. I need to do some tests to see If I can get a clean waveform, tunning the primary, I don´t know. May be this low Z makes short antennas feeding simpler, who knows? ANATEL is another issue. The actual amateur service regulations says that "we only need to INFORM the telecom authority that we´ll use frequencies/modes not assigned for amateur, attaching one project sumary". We don´t need to ask for ... just let them know. But, you know, this crazy govt people ... they always read what they want ... 73 Marcus, PY3CRX/PY2PLL GG66rf http://py.qsl.br Active from "DC" to 24GHz From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22547 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2001 03:12:52 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Oct 2001 03:12:52 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16617 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2001 03:11:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 18 Oct 2001 03:11:38 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15u3RY-0004uJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 04:02:00 +0100 Received: from mail8.wlv.netzero.net ([209.247.163.58]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15u3RX-0004uC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 04:01:59 +0100 Received: (qmail 13166 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2001 02:06:56 -0000 Received: from dialup-63.214.73.57.dial1.boston1.level3.net (HELO lazzo) (63.214.73.57) by mail8.wlv.netzero.net with SMTP; 18 Oct 2001 02:06:56 -0000 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20011018004130.01145c00@pop.netzero.net> X-Sender: w1jhj@pop.netzero.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 00:41:30 -0400 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Jonathan Jesse" Subject: Re: LF: CFH In-reply-to: <3BCDDAD5.CE215ECA@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I haven't heard it here. I haven't heard CFH around 137 since last season. I do hear DCF39 most evenings but not as strong as last season, yet... Jon W1JHJ FN41qw At 08:24 PM 10/17/01 +0100, you wrote: >Strong rtty type signal around 137 khz most evenings and at other times. >I assume this is CFH, if so there could possibly be transatlantic >potential at present. Condx to EU are very good at present and 136 khz >sounds good apart from the odd qrn bursts at times. >I have one of the 4 inv L antennas, over 100 ft vertical and 300 ft >horiz pointing West. Whether this has any directional properties on 136 >khz I am not sure. >I wonder if anyone else can hear this rtty acty. >G3KEV > > > > > > ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21300 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2001 02:13:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Oct 2001 02:13:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 9062 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2001 02:13:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 18 Oct 2001 02:13:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15u2cY-0004np-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 03:09:18 +0100 Received: from tomts8.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.52] helo=tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15u2cX-0004nk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 03:09:17 +0100 Received: from server1 ([209.226.189.140]) by tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20011018020805.MADS11986.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 22:08:05 -0400 Message-ID: <003801c15779$b1521350$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <6759669.1002876291241.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> <00ca01c153b0$a30444c0$2fb51bca@xtr743187> Subject: Re: LF: ZL6QH & access to 136 Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 22:07:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Bob: Please, what will be his qrg? and will it be a stabilized system? Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7532 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2001 00:48:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Oct 2001 00:48:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 22122 invoked from network); 18 Oct 2001 00:48:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 18 Oct 2001 00:48:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15u1I9-0004dj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 01:44:09 +0100 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15u1I7-0004de-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 01:44:08 +0100 Received: from [213.122.89.114] (helo=j1r9b7) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15u1HS-0006IH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 18 Oct 2001 01:43:27 +0100 Message-ID: <003501c1576c$29fe4a20$72597ad5@j1r9b7> From: "Derek Atter" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200110170241_MC3-E390-116D@compuserve.com> Subject: LF: Re: MB7LF Remote receiver relay Date: Thu, 18 Oct 2001 01:30:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Derek Atter G3GRO, Many thanks for the many messages of support received via the LF Reflector and also for the support given at the well attended sessions of the LF Forum at the recent HF/LF Convention at Windsor regarding the establishment of the remote receiver system GB7LF. I regret that one or two LF operators have expressed objection to the basic idea of the LF relay. The derogatory response from G3KEV was predictable and about par for the course and is just one more in a long line of similar outbursts. I was however more sorry to read the views expressed by Steve GW4ALG and Dave G3YMC with whom I have had many a enjoyable QSO. I hope perhaps Steve you will on reflection not say farewell yet to the LF bands - that would be such a pity. The 136kHz band can ill aford to lose such an active operator and experimenter. To clarify things would like to emphasise the following points : (1) The system should not be regarded in the same light as a 2m FM repeater. It is an experiment to provide a remote receiver whose main function is to overcome the problems of local noise and not to act as an intermediate repeater intended to extend the range coverage. A second objective is to encourage more interest in LF activity locally and there are already signs that members of other clubs have started monitoring activity on 136kHz via the relay receiver. The fear that somehow this will encourage more "black box" operation seems to me to be irrelevant since most of us use commercial receivers already and a 136kHz transmitter and antenna system is still needed to make a QSO. We did not have in mind its use in achieving awards or records when establishing the remote receiver but to avoid any confusion as to the signal path, we will be encouraging the practice of adding "RX via MB7LF" to outgoing signal reports on 136kHz. (2) The licence is held by the RSGB and delegated by them to the relay keeper. At the end of the first year of operation we will review it and if the general consensus of LF operators (perhaps after discussion at the next HF Convention) is that it is not a good thing, then we will shut it down. (3) The system is not yet optimised since it was put together in a very short time in order to support the LF special event station MB2HFC at the HF Convention at Windsor. As has been said elsewhere on the reflector, without its use it would not have been possible to operate a viable demonstration station as was found last year due to the local noise level. Or should we have just sat on our hands and missed the opportunity to encourage more LF interest among a wider audience? We opted to use initially an active antenna with only a 1.2m whip only 30ft AGL operating in conjunction a fixed loop to null out Loran to demonstrate the potential of active receiving antennas in support of the talk by Andre' N1ICK on the AMRAD antenna. Although the antenna system maybe not yet be optimised, it was clearly working reasonably well since we managed to work as far as Finbar EI0CF at Malin Head at the northern tip of Eire and down to F6BWO in the opposite direction in Chaumont, SE of Paris, both being in the region of 600km distance. As part of the experiment it is planned in future as an alternative to the active antenna, to patch in to the Crawley Club 360ft inverted "L" antenna which is up at around 60ft AGL. We also plan to experiment with a very long terminated half-loop antenna similar to that being currently being used so successfully by Laurie G3AQC pointed at Lessay to null out Loran. Finally, it's early days yet. We believe that the project is in the amateur tradition of experiment as several of the mesages posted on the reflector have already said. We would also like to pay tribute to the UK Radio Licensing Authority and the RSGB for the speed with which they processed the licence application and their helpful comments on the way Vy 73, de Derek Atter G3GRO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5845 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2001 21:50:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Oct 2001 21:50:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 11085 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2001 21:49:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 17 Oct 2001 21:49:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tyVc-0004GU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 22:45:52 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tyVa-0004GN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 22:45:51 +0100 Received: from [217.35.24.69] (helo=dellboy) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15tyUt-0002kC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 22:45:07 +0100 Message-ID: <000b01c15754$f6e5a8c0$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3BCDDAD5.CE215ECA@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: CFH Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 22:44:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mal. No sign of anything here at 2140 gmt, even on the Spectrogram display. I heard you working Reino this evening but he was a better copy this morning, no QRN. Dave G3YXM. > I wonder if anyone else can hear this rtty acty. > G3KEV > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25516 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2001 20:30:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Oct 2001 20:30:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18670 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2001 20:30:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Oct 2001 20:30:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15txGz-00045p-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 21:26:41 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15txGy-00045i-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 21:26:40 +0100 Received: from ldsas04-68-119-42.cw-visp.com ([212.137.119.42] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15tx7K-0002Nm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 20:16:43 +0000 Message-ID: <3BCDDAD5.CE215ECA@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 20:24:05 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: CFH Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Strong rtty type signal around 137 khz most evenings and at other times. I assume this is CFH, if so there could possibly be transatlantic potential at present. Condx to EU are very good at present and 136 khz sounds good apart from the odd qrn bursts at times. I have one of the 4 inv L antennas, over 100 ft vertical and 300 ft horiz pointing West. Whether this has any directional properties on 136 khz I am not sure. I wonder if anyone else can hear this rtty acty. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6605 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2001 20:30:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Oct 2001 20:30:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18650 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2001 20:30:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Oct 2001 20:30:32 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15txGx-00045j-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 21:26:39 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15txGw-00045d-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 21:26:38 +0100 Received: from ldsas04-68-119-42.cw-visp.com ([212.137.119.42] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15tx7H-0002Ne-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 20:16:40 +0000 Message-ID: <3BCDB7BD.B6E9D8FD@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 17:54:22 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Repeaters References: <200110170241_MC3-E390-116D@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: "Holger 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" wrote: > ... just a question to you folks with English as you mother-language: > > is a person, who keeps repeating himself all the time, called a repeater? > > ;-) > > 73 > > Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) Sri cannot help, English is my second language. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16844 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2001 17:57:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Oct 2001 17:57:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10801 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2001 17:57:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Oct 2001 17:57:17 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tupa-0003nj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 18:50:14 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tupY-0003ne-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 18:50:13 +0100 Received: from ldsas02-66-117-71.cw-visp.com ([212.137.117.71] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15tufs-0006rW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 17:40:12 +0000 Message-ID: <3BCDB661.EC334EB3@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 17:48:33 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: big big Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Band acty this morning good. G3YXM had a fantastic signal S9 plus 38.37 db. Dave worked OH1TN daytime and I followed. Reino was 579 also a big signal. I am sure Dave designed and built his own tx and deserves credit for an outstanding signal, and will surely be the biggest signal across the Atlantic this year if he participates. No other signal from those that I hear from England compares with his punch, he is only surpassed by MM0ALM in Scotland. Others that I hear that claim to have worked across the Atlantic are but a pip squeek compared to G3YXM and MM0ALM. Hope you both make it this year. de G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6097 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2001 06:48:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Oct 2001 06:48:58 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22956 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2001 06:48:41 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 17 Oct 2001 06:48:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tkP8-0002Jd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 07:42:14 +0100 Received: from siaag2af.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.136]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tkP5-0002JX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 07:42:12 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2af.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id CAA27934 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 02:41:29 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 17 Oct 2001 02:41:01 -0400 From: "Holger 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Repeaters To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200110170241_MC3-E390-116D@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ... just a question to you folks with English as you mother-language: is a person, who keeps repeating himself all the time, called a repeater? ;-) 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22258 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2001 01:54:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Oct 2001 01:54:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 25157 invoked from network); 17 Oct 2001 01:54:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Oct 2001 01:54:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tfrW-0001iA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 02:51:14 +0100 Received: from tomts6.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.26] helo=tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tfrV-0001i5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 17 Oct 2001 02:51:13 +0100 Received: from server1 ([209.226.189.71]) by tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20011017015000.YJLV4990.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 21:50:00 -0400 Message-ID: <002f01c156ae$053a2740$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <132.321ded3.28fe039c@aol.com> Subject: LF: Re: DBF39 Frequency Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 21:47:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Markus: > Larry brought up an interesting point: > > > Just a short note, I am receiving DCF39 most every day, ... > > My bucket size is less than 1.22 milliHz and I can see the day/night > > frequency change on DCF39 as well, variation is very small but it is visible > > most days. > > Could that be ionospheric doppler shift? How large is the effect? I have been working on trying to allocate the effect I see to software issues and real QSY issues. I am not yet successful and with the tools I have I may not be able to see the effect well enough to allocate amounts to each. My sense of it is that part of it is real as it occurs over a period of hours. The amount is rarely more than 2 milliHz. I have just finished a special large insulated box in which I will put the IC-706 MKII G this coming winter, my goal is to try and remove some of the QSY from the equipment but I need better tools I suspect to make real measurements. I am trying to get some sort of program running here, but since I am not seeing anyone show up for TransAtlantic QSO attempts using QRS I will probably go back to working on DCF39 again. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3644 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2001 21:50:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Oct 2001 21:50:12 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22299 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2001 21:47:55 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Oct 2001 21:47:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tbzM-00017g-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 22:43:04 +0100 Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tbzI-00017b-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 22:43:01 +0100 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.8.) id l.132.321ded3 (3892) for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 17:41:48 -0400 (EDT) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <132.321ded3.28fe039c@aol.com> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 17:41:48 EDT Subject: LF: DBF39 Frequency To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------020106020006070600080600" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 72 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020106020006070600080600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Uwe, Geri, Larry and all, a while ago, I had posted some observations on the frequency stability of DBF39 (or DCF?) on 138.83 kHz (pasted below). Maybe I should try to explain a little more. > what are the exact (0.001Hz) qrgs of mark and space (in the mark)? There is no extra narrowband modulation. The widening of the mark spectral line is simply caused by the normal FSK bursts (200 bd, 340 Hz shift) which are sent at irregular intervals, at least once in every 12 seconds. As the frequency shift is no integer multiple of the baud rate, each "space" bit accumulates a phase shift of 340/200 * 360deg = -108deg . After a telegram with an arbitrary number of "1" bits, the carrier does not return to its old phase. In a fast spectrogram, you can see the telegrams separated in time, the typical blooms Larry mentioned. But in a high-resolution FFT like Uwe's waterfall, they merge into a noise-band about 1/12 Hz wide, without any coherent central line. The appended little image also shows this DBF "band", compared to several atomic-clock driven LF carriers. During an hour of recording, I left Argo (120s dots slow) running while switching the synthesized local oscillator. The small downwards steps are an audio deviation proportional to carrier freq (about 10 mHz max), caused by my 10 MHz OCXO reference being 0.05 ppm low. Both broadcast carriers are accompanied by distant, less accurate stations. Larry brought up an interesting point: > Just a short note, I am receiving DCF39 most every day, ... > My bucket size is less than 1.22 milliHz and I can see the day/night > frequency change on DCF39 as well, variation is very small but it is visible > most days. Could that be ionospheric doppler shift? How large is the effect? 73 de Markus, DF6NM ______________________________________________________________ I wrote on Feb. 12: There are two reasons why DBF39 may be of limited use for very precise frequency calibration: - Due to the phase-continuous FSK, the phase has shifted arbitrarily after each data burst. On Argo with 21mHz or finer resolution you will not see a narrow line but rather an irregular strip several ten mHz wide. - Even in the intervals between the telegrams, the freq appears to be slightly higher than nominal. Using a scope to directly measure the rate of phase advance relative to an OCXO reference derived from terrestrial TV "ZDF", I got 138830.030 Hz for DBF39 and 128930.014 Hz for DCF49, but these offsets may even be variable. On the other hand, 122.5 (DCF42 pilot), 153.0 (DLF radio) and of course 77.5 kHz (DCF77) seem to be very accurate. 73 and good luck Markus --------------020106020006070600080600 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="DBF39.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="DBF39.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEBLAEsAAD/2wBDAAoHBwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8l JCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8SDc9Pjv/2wBDAQoLCw4NDhwQEBw7KCIo Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozv/wAAR CABAAMgDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA AgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkK FhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWG h4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl 5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEAAwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREA AgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSExBhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYk 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Pkn/AFmw/MvHXHW0VxFmTZaa1p4n1C6jt0itZ7S3VCmAGkEtw8nA75kBJ7lj1Oa1qKKAP//Z --------------020106020006070600080600-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19513 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2001 18:46:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Oct 2001 18:46:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17475 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2001 18:45:00 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 16 Oct 2001 18:45:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tZ06-0000aH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 19:31:38 +0100 Received: from [204.202.140.198] (helo=gomailmta-bc.seamail.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tZ05-0000aC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 19:31:37 +0100 Received: from gomailjtp05 ([10.212.0.165]) by mta06.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GLB00I989IWMR@mta06.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 11:18:32 -0700 (PDT) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 11:18:34 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Sexton" Subject: LF: Slow Morse transmissions To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <2855138.1003256314565.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, I am currently sending slow morse CQs every day from about 1600 for at least a couple of hours on 137.700 in an attempt to make a few QSOs with Europe and would appreciate a reply. I am using 10 second dots, as a result of seeing the results of 3 second dots from Ko's location, which showed a lot of break up of dashes. Thanks Ko for the feedback. 73, John, G4CNN ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 863 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2001 18:40:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Oct 2001 18:40:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5933 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2001 18:38:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 16 Oct 2001 18:38:41 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tYgj-0000XU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 19:11:37 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tYgi-0000XP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 19:11:36 +0100 Received: from ldsas15-79-130-45.cw-visp.com ([212.137.130.45] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15tYX0-0005oB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 18:01:35 +0000 Message-ID: <3BCC65B4.35E96A0C@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 17:52:04 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Mal on Repeaters References: <3BCB18E9.B3067E26@netscapeonline.co.uk> <005001c155d5$0574cbe0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Larry Kayser wrote: > Dennis, thanks for relaying the text of a message sent by Mal. I do not see > Mal's stuff anymore, I solved that a long time ago. > > For the record......................... > > > I hope those using such a system including our friend in Canada who > > confesses to using vhf/uhf links for LF and HF linking does not claim > > any AWARDS. I hope the recent transatlantic claims do not include any > > linking of any kind but genuine contacts on the 136 khz band from the > > home qth, where the LF tx/rx is located. > > Certainly I used my remote system for the LF QSO across the North Atlantic. > I am not stupid enough to tie an additonal arm behind my back when I have > such a facility I have built available to me. > > > Please do not call/work me via the repeater. > > Mal, if we were the two last amateurs in the world, I would never hear your > signal, not if you were parked on my front dock with a megawatt of spark, I > would never hear or acknowledge your signal. I promise you I will never > call you on the air, never. There are very few things I will say that I > would never do, not under any circumstances, never, but QSO you would be one > of the things I can safely say I would never do. Have complete faith in > this Mal, you can take it to the bank - NEVER. > > This has been a long time coming Mal, now you have it officially - NEVER. > > Larry > VA3LK NICE REPLY - Its just that a proper qso to me means door to door on the appropriate band, in this case LF 136 khz and not via vhf/uhf links, repeaters etc, also a qso must take place at one session and not in bits and pieces over several days or weeks or years. I am glad you have clarified your position otherwise had I worked you I would have been disappointed to find that you used various vhf/uhf routes and I would not CLAIM a qso. Are there any other radio amateurs in Canada or do you have a friend that I could work ??? G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6852 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2001 17:55:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Oct 2001 17:55:50 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17453 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2001 17:53:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 16 Oct 2001 17:53:26 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tXxf-0000Q2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 18:25:03 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tXxe-0000Pv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 18:25:03 +0100 Received: from ldsas14-78-129-72.cw-visp.com ([212.137.129.72] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15tXo2-0002Yf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 17:15:06 +0000 Message-ID: <3BCC5F3F.9E4A4031@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 17:24:31 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: shambles Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Over the weekend acty was brisk. G3YXM was S9 plus 34.5 db but did not respond to several callers, obviously RX problems. MB2HFC was S9 plus 19 db but did not respond again to several callers and admits that he could only hear G3KEV and G3YXM ( his email) again RX problems, they say had it not been for the 2 metre repeater it would have been a wash out. So why all the QRO with incompatable receiving capabilities, this causes unnecessary qrm to other band users. G6RO was doing well with his 5w QRP but all credit must go to the distant receiving dx operators whose cw skills, dedication and expertise made the qso's possible. For QRP to be meaniful then both ends must be QRP compatible ie both ends of the qso must be QRP. What is the point of one end running a KW and the other 1 watt. One end is struggling and the other sitting back armchair copy. There should be a frequency set aside for qrp only and not mixing QRP/QRO. There were a number of instances over the weekend where EU dx stations were calling cq on top of G6RO not knowing he was there. These problems could easily be solved to the mutual benefit of all LF band users by using a little common sense. A QRP only frequency, and others with SUPER QRO to get their receivers compatable with their output power. No good having a poor antenna with lots of RF going out if you cannot hear what is coming in. In spite of the above handicaps I did manage a number of EU dx QSO'S especially OM2TW, OK1DTN,OH1TN,SM3UWS plus others. de G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15245 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2001 17:13:27 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Oct 2001 17:13:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6242 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2001 17:11:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 16 Oct 2001 17:11:04 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tXWS-0000Kt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 17:56:56 +0100 Received: from mail7.wlv.netzero.net ([209.247.163.57]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tXWO-0000Ko-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 17:56:53 +0100 Received: (qmail 20841 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2001 16:56:02 -0000 Received: from dialup-63.214.92.40.dial1.boston1.level3.net (HELO lazzo) (63.214.92.40) by mail7.wlv.netzero.net with SMTP; 16 Oct 2001 16:56:02 -0000 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20011016125425.0114e8ac@pop.netzero.net> X-Sender: w1jhj@pop.netzero.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 12:54:25 -0400 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Jonathan Jesse" Subject: Re: LF: Repeaters In-reply-to: <3BCB18E9.B3067E26@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: fun: delight, pleasure hobby: Any favorite pursuit, topic, or object : that which a person persistently pursues with zeal or delight. 73, Jon W1JHJ Plymouth, MA FN41qw http://geocities.com/ws1k.rm ---------------------------------------------------- Sign Up for NetZero Platinum Today Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7603 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2001 07:48:51 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Oct 2001 07:48:51 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 548 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2001 07:48:41 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Oct 2001 07:48:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tOuc-0007Xd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:45:18 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tOub-0007XY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:45:17 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA806960 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 09:44:36 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20011016084248.2b0f05d6@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:42:48 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Repeaters In-reply-to: <3BCB18E9.B3067E26@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 18:12 15/10/01 +0100, G3KEV wrote: >I hope those using such a system including our friend in Canada who >confesses to using vhf/uhf links for LF and HF linking does not claim >any AWARDS. I hope the recent transatlantic claims do not include any >linking of any kind but genuine contacts on the 136 khz band from the >home qth, where the LF tx/rx is located. Dear Mal, Maybe I'm just too simple minded, but I don't get this. I know lots of VHF/UHF operators having their antennas tens or hundreds of wavelengths away from their shack, high up in the air while the TX is in the cellar. TX and antenna are connected via a coax cable, just because this is the most conveniant way, but a RX pre-amp and even the TX PA are located near the antenna. Nobody ever complained about this as unfair. And now we have someone with a additional antenna at no more than a few wavelengths from his receiver. Probably nobody would feel this is unfair if the chap would run a 5km long coax from the antenna to the shack (maybe most of us would just consider it a bit stupid), but the moment the 'material' coax is replaced by an 'immaterial' UHF link it all would become faul play ? For some misterious reason it seems to be OK to 'think big' when it comes to putting a strong signal in the air, but not when it comes to picking up weak signals out of the air. I don't understand what is unfair about this, but maybe someone can enlighten me. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18583 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2001 07:38:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Oct 2001 07:38:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24028 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2001 07:38:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Oct 2001 07:38:11 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tOjP-0007V1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:33:43 +0100 Received: from mta02.btfusion.com ([62.172.195.247] helo=btclick.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tOjO-0007Uw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:33:42 +0100 Received: from virgin.net ([213.121.109.19]) by btclick.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.05) with ESMTP id GLAFM703.NA8 for ; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:32:31 +0100 Message-ID: <3BCBE2B3.B8B6055A@virgin.net> Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:33:08 +0100 From: "Stewart Bryant" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.78 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: MB7LF Remote LF relay from 136kHz Operational References: <001801c151bc$1a24b7c0$fa4201d5@j1r9b7> <3BC9B860.FC9F5BA3@usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alberto di Bene wrote: > Derek Atter wrote: > > > >From G3GRO/G3YSX > > > > Initial tests have begun to relay the whole of the 136kHz band from a remote > > receiving site located at IO91VC as an experiment. The relayed output will > > be initially on 144.9876Mhz USB. See the attachment for more details. > > [...] > > I see from the attachment that there are also plans for relaying the 136kHz band > on 10 and 6 meters. Please announce on this reflector when those QRGs > will become operative. I have no chances to receive from my QTH the 2-meter > transmitter... > > 73 Alberto I2PHD We will announce medium/long term changes on the reflector. We are not set up for 10m at the moment, but we can manage 6m and 2m, SSB and FM, and are willing to change band/mode on request. 73 Stewart G3YSX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2328 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2001 06:52:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Oct 2001 06:52:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 9017 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2001 06:51:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 16 Oct 2001 06:51:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tO1Z-0007OB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 07:48:25 +0100 Received: from smtp.seznam.cz ([195.119.180.43] helo=email.seznam.cz) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tO1X-0007O3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 07:48:24 +0100 Received: (qmail 31499 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2001 06:47:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO OK1FIG) (195.47.69.2) by smtp.seznam.cz with SMTP; 16 Oct 2001 06:47:28 -0000 Message-ID: <003f01c1560e$d683d760$1601a8c0@cz.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly \(OK1FIG\)" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3BCB18E9.B3067E26@netscapeonline.co.uk> <005001c155d5$0574cbe0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> Subject: LF: Newcomers Date: Tue, 16 Oct 2001 08:50:26 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all To make the list complete, I worked on Saturday also: OK1ABX (his 2nd QSO on LF) HA6NW IN3LBQ (Visual-CW) Sorry, Dave, to make you edit index.htm once again... 73 Petr OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8020 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2001 00:08:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Oct 2001 00:08:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 5032 invoked from network); 16 Oct 2001 00:06:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Oct 2001 00:06:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tHcJ-0006bo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 00:57:55 +0100 Received: from tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.35]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tHcH-0006bj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 16 Oct 2001 00:57:54 +0100 Received: from server1 ([216.209.138.31]) by tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20011015235641.EOBQ27994.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1>; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:56:41 -0400 Message-ID: <005001c155d5$0574cbe0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, "\"gii3kev\"" References: <3BCB18E9.B3067E26@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Mal on Repeaters Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:56:29 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dennis, thanks for relaying the text of a message sent by Mal. I do not see Mal's stuff anymore, I solved that a long time ago. For the record......................... > I hope those using such a system including our friend in Canada who > confesses to using vhf/uhf links for LF and HF linking does not claim > any AWARDS. I hope the recent transatlantic claims do not include any > linking of any kind but genuine contacts on the 136 khz band from the > home qth, where the LF tx/rx is located. Certainly I used my remote system for the LF QSO across the North Atlantic. I am not stupid enough to tie an additonal arm behind my back when I have such a facility I have built available to me. > Please do not call/work me via the repeater. Mal, if we were the two last amateurs in the world, I would never hear your signal, not if you were parked on my front dock with a megawatt of spark, I would never hear or acknowledge your signal. I promise you I will never call you on the air, never. There are very few things I will say that I would never do, not under any circumstances, never, but QSO you would be one of the things I can safely say I would never do. Have complete faith in this Mal, you can take it to the bank - NEVER. This has been a long time coming Mal, now you have it officially - NEVER. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5804 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 19:35:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 19:35:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 14929 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 19:33:48 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 19:33:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tDRT-0005lw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:30:27 +0100 Received: from if1.if.ufrgs.br ([143.54.2.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tDRR-0005lr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:30:25 +0100 Received: from if1.if.ufrgs.br by if1.if.ufrgs.br (PMDF V4.3-10 #7035) id <01K9JBLNF6Z400CAYN@if1.if.ufrgs.br>; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 16:25:40 -0003 Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 16:25:39 -0003 From: HAAG@if.ufrgs.br Subject: Re: LF: Re: just a test from South America In-reply-to: <001e01c1559b$dc52f2c0$c00b0805@globocabo.com.br> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: "LF Group" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On Mon, 15 Oct 2001, PY3CRX PY2PLL wrote: > Hi Rafael ... > > What kind of hardware are U using ? Hello dear Marcus! Now I using a very modest setup for LF, just a old swan 500C (very low phase noise...) and a HB RX converter with a BF981 in front end and xtal for 14 MHz IF. GRAM 6.0 and SPECTRAN for weak signal in pentium 100 MHz. My antennas are 2m loop and Marconi T with base load and variometer for use with TX. For TX I thing build a 4 x IRF540 FETS G3YXM style (if I get the special authorization from ANATEL...) > still waiting for Anatel special authorization to transmit on 137KHz (2 > years now). Me too.... 73 and good LF listen Rafael Haag Py3FF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25182 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 19:19:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 19:19:54 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3346 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 19:18:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 19:18:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tDCm-0005iX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:15:16 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tDCl-0005iS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:15:15 +0100 Received: from [213.122.186.43] (helo=host213-122-186-43.btinternet.com) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15tDC6-0000NA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:14:35 +0100 From: "Nick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Repeaters Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:14:51 +0100 Message-ID: References: <3BCB18E9.B3067E26@netscapeonline.co.uk> In-reply-to: <3BCB18E9.B3067E26@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On Mon, 15 Oct 2001 18:12:09 +0100, you wrote: >Present day amateur radio seems to be an APPLIANCE OPERATOR persuit and >certainly does not encourage the true RF experimenter. Doesn't the person who BUILDS his own remote receiver station and then uses it show more experimental spirit then the person who simply uses a commercial receiver connected to the aerial at home???? Nick From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7013 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 19:13:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 19:13:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27550 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 19:12:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 19:12:01 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tD5Y-0005hX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:07:48 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tD5X-0005hS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:07:47 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15tD4s-0001gm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:07:06 +0100 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15tD4s-0006o0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:07:06 +0100 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:10:15 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Tree Losses In-reply-to: <5.0.2.1.2.20011015140639.00a2c4a0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Walter, LF Group, As far as the practical question "how far away do things have to be to make no difference to the antenna loss" goes, my answer would be "when they are much further away than the other things which are causing losses". Everybody's antenna has ground under it, and it is known that LF fields penetrate some distance into the ground. Most soil is not a great dielectric, therefore, the losses in the ground will be considerable, and if there is nothing else around, the ground losses will dominate. This certainly seemed to be the case at Puckeridge, where the "small" antenna had only moderately less loss in open fields than when set up in my garden, surrounded by trees. Therefore Rik's comments of about twice the antenna height seem a reasonable rule of thumb. I found moving my antenna so it was several metres, rather than a few metres from trees, buildings, etc, made a significant improvement - over a few incarnations it has gone from about 60ohms to 30ohms loss resistance. Bear in mind the feed point has just as much voltage on it as the rest of the antenna, so keeping this (and obviously the loading coil as well) well off the ground will help too. A tuned TX antenna will obviously suffer losses when used for receive in just the same way as when it is used for transmit, although because of the high noise levels, this probably will not make a noticeable difference to the overall SNR. The situation with small loops and whips will be a bit different, because the external signal/noise to internal preamp noise margins are smaller. I did some experiments with my FS measuring gear on the DCF39 signal - the ferrite rod showed variations of only about 3dB in a wide variety of surroundings - trees seemed to make things no better or worse. Tuned loops do not seem to suffer significant Q reduction so long as they are about a loop diameter or so from surrounding objects. I have not yet done quantitative measurements with an E-field whip, but data from EMC sources suggests that this will suffer much greater screening effects - the E- field is more seriously affected than the H field, and 10dB or more variations can be expected. An object of a few wavelengths or less between TX and RX in size will not cast a radio "shadow" extending many wavelengths beyond the object because the wavefront will diffract around it, like waves passing a ship in the sea. Close up to the screening object, there may well be a screening effect - the only place this is likely to happen on LF is in a narrow valley, or in a gap between large buildings. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27395 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 18:18:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 18:18:53 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15100 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 18:18:43 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 18:18:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tCF2-0005Vd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:13:32 +0100 Received: from smtp0.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.193.6] helo=smtp.wanadoo.nl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tCF1-0005VX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:13:31 +0100 Received: from nl9222 (p0953.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.202.190]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f9FICno01937 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:12:49 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <200110151812.f9FICno01937@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 20:12:56 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: dcf39/dk8kw X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by smtp.wanadoo.nl id f9FICno01937 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 10/15/01 12:40:00 AM, you wrote: >Hi Geri es All, >as Markus/df6nm mentioned in a direct e-mail the mark of DCF39 is keyed (MFSK? >see attechment; SpecLab-shot, 0.014Hz resolution, center frequ. 800.0Hz = >138.83x.xkHz). >question to the dcf39-specialist Geri: what are the exact (0.001Hz) qrgs of mark >and space (in the mark)? >regards >Uwe/dj8wx > > Hello Uwe, Have a look on the cd i did send you some time ago. Go to "\Analyzer\Gspec" and extract "Gspec2" it will measure all you want to know. Hope this helps.. 73 Ko Versteeg, NL9222 [SWL] [Grid: JO22KE - Lat: 52° 12' 15.0"N Long: 04° 51' 40.5"E] Home: http://home.wanadoo.nl/nl9222/index.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14423 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 18:18:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 18:18:38 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1466 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 18:18:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 18:18:21 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tCF3-0005Vj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:13:33 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tCF2-0005VY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 19:13:32 +0100 Received: from ldsas13-77-128-233.cw-visp.com ([212.137.128.233] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15tC5Q-0004xR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 18:03:37 +0000 Message-ID: <3BCB18E9.B3067E26@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 18:12:09 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: Repeaters Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I do not think the way forward on LF is via vhf repeaters regardless on a persons QTH environment. I recently worked VK, ZS6 and W4 on 2 metres via the GB7LY repeater and all that I achieved was a two way qso to the repeater the rest of the distance was covered using the internet system. This is an interesting approach but it does not encourage experimentation if fact it does the opposite. I hope those using such a system including our friend in Canada who confesses to using vhf/uhf links for LF and HF linking does not claim any AWARDS. I hope the recent transatlantic claims do not include any linking of any kind but genuine contacts on the 136 khz band from the home qth, where the LF tx/rx is located. Please do not call/work me via the repeater. If you look at the mail its the same old cronies that support each other regardless of what others think. How about learning morse code and perfecting operating procedures so that you can make a genuine qso direct, also try some outside activities like putting up a proper antenna. If you live in a poor radio environment and dearly love LF then MOVE to a suitable location, you would not buy an expensive yacht for sailing except you lived beside or near a lake or seaside. Present day amateur radio seems to be an APPLIANCE OPERATOR persuit and certainly does not encourage the true RF experimenter. de G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11739 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 17:34:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 17:34:39 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6487 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 17:34:22 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 17:34:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tBZs-0005LV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 18:31:00 +0100 Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.105]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tBZq-0005LQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 18:30:59 +0100 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.8.) id l.b2.264768 (3967) for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:30:11 -0400 (EDT) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:30:11 EDT Subject: Re: LF: Re: Farewell, LFers To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 10/15/01 4:46:45 AM Eastern Daylight Time, rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be writes: << I'm a bit surprised that a 'gadget' like a 136kHz - 144MHz transponder creates that much reactions and even makes some of us to dismantle their LF antennas. ...snip... >> My thoughts, for what little they're worth, closely parallel Rik's and perhaps also Walter's thoughts. A simple one-way translator (American usage) of this sort is a rather democratic notion, making the band available to users within a limited geographical region who --due to local interference-- would either be unable to use 136kHz at all; or who, still worse, would spend a lot of time calling without realizing they have no chance of hearing any replies from outside their own neighborhood. This project strikes me as a worthy experiment. Conversely, I could also understand objections if the idea were extended to a full-fledged cross-band repeater. Seems to me, that's where the appliance operator concept would come into play. As Walter noted, it's a simple matter to declare that use of a transponder does not constitute DX, if one wishes to preserve the purity of DX records. Dave's reservations about the use--or, I believe his point was, the potential abuse--of the technology also seem well founded, though. Deception, intentional or not, is a risk with something like this when personal-best or DX records are involved. (FWIW, I don't understand the fuss over Dave's use of the phrase "probably OK" when describing use of a private remote control link to a transmitter and receiver at the same location, which is indeed a very different situation from use of a public transponder. In a case where the awards committee ruled that an exchange of traansmissions over two weeks, coordinated through "I'm on the air/I'm not on the air/I heard you" communications via e-mail or telephone, constitutes a QSO, I don't think anyone would quibble over remote control even if the link is on another band. I don't see that "probably OK" is perjorative in the context in which it was used.) In short, it seems to me that the current experiment has generated more anxiety than is justified at this point. I would urge all LFers to examine the net results first before making any decisions about their own future on the band. 73, John KD4IDY From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2416 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 17:31:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 17:31:26 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 707 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 17:30:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 17:30:05 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tBU0-0005Ka-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 18:24:56 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tBTz-0005KV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 18:24:56 +0100 Received: from ldsas14-78-129-127.cw-visp.com ([212.137.129.127] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15tBKJ-0000nQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 17:14:56 +0000 Message-ID: <3BCB0D81.E2E09CE3@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 17:23:29 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: QRP Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: With Ron's (G6RO) recent success with 5w on qrp maybe the time has come to allocate a spot frequency for qrp activity. I have noticed that Ron has been calling cq on top of other qso' a number of times only because the dx stations are not hearing him. Some of the dx stations around EU are themselves very weak even with average power output and this makes it difficult for me and others to work the dx. Ron because of his close proximity to me is 589 most of the time. Like the hf bands QRP and QRO should be kept apart for the mutual benefit of all band users. de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26611 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 17:19:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 17:19:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 15756 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 17:17:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 17:17:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tBCh-0005HB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 18:07:03 +0100 Received: from mail2.globocabo.com.br ([200.231.181.97] helo=ntweb.globocabo.com.br) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tBCg-0005H1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 18:07:02 +0100 Received: from spovdesi1625 (SPOVD-ESI-1625 [5.8.11.192]) by ntweb.globocabo.com.br with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id 4XNHG108; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 15:00:31 -0300 Message-ID: <001e01c1559b$dc52f2c0$c00b0805@globocabo.com.br> From: "PY3CRX PY2PLL" To: "LF Group" References: Subject: LF: Re: just a test from South America Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 15:07:17 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Rafael ... What kind of hardware are U using ? I'm getting back to under 500KHz listening in some days. May be we can share some odd signals listening. I still waiting for Anatel special authorization to transmit on 137KHz (2 years now). 73 Marcus PY3CRX/PY2PLL S. B. do Campo - GG66rf http://py.qsl.br Active from "DC" to 24GHz ----- Original Message ----- From: To: "lf rsgb" Sent: Monday, October 15, 2001 10:53 AM Subject: LF: just a test from South America > Sorry the bandwith... > PY3FF > RX in 137 kHz TX soon... > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29806 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 16:01:15 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 16:01:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11140 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 15:58:59 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 15:58:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t9z2-0004zp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 16:48:52 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t9z0-0004zh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 16:48:50 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA762336 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 17:48:07 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20011015164621.2d5f4ff8@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 16:46:21 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Tree Losses In-reply-to: <5.0.2.1.2.20011015140639.00a2c4a0@mail.pncl.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Walter, As far as I understand trees (dry or wet) do not shield on LF but they absorb RF energy. So instead of comparing them with a metal plate (as on VHF and up) one can better compare them with a lossy capacitor. Regarding the distance : the further the better, but if you can keep the trees further away than 2 times the hight of your antenna you might avoid the worst losses (the largest capacitance should be between the antenna and ground, not between the antenna and the trees). If you have trees close to the antenna try to keep the wire as far as possible away from the greenery. Close to the antenna (near field) the electric field decreases with the square of the distance, so despite a wavelength of over 2000m every inch can count ! Since antennas work reciprocal I would expect that trees will also absorb a part of the 'incoming' EM-signals, but that should be a much less problem as not only the usefull signals will be absorbed but also QRM/QRN, leaving the SNR unchanged (unless you come close to your RX noisefloor, rather unlikely on LF). 73, Rik ON7YD At 14:15 15/10/01 +0100, you wrote: >At 73/136 khz how far away from a wet tree do you have to be not to see >any RF loss? At one extreme if your ant runs through it you will lose a >lot; at the other if it is several kms away you won't lose anything. Is >there a critical distance? And the reverse - if there's a wet tree close >to you in the same direction as a transmitter, will you receive a much >weaker signal than you ought? Does it act like a metal plate does at >microwaves? > >Walter G3JKV. > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28210 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 16:00:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 16:00:33 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4583 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 15:58:10 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 15:58:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tA32-00050X-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 16:53:00 +0100 Received: from if1.if.ufrgs.br ([143.54.2.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15tA31-00050S-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 16:52:59 +0100 Received: from if1.if.ufrgs.br by if1.if.ufrgs.br (PMDF V4.3-10 #7035) id <01K9J43XAGMO00AGLJ@if1.if.ufrgs.br>; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 12:50:33 -0003 Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 12:50:32 -0003 From: HAAG@if.ufrgs.br Subject: LF: just a test from South America To: "lf rsgb" Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Sorry the bandwith... PY3FF RX in 137 kHz TX soon... From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6268 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 15:25:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 15:25:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 625 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 15:23:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 15:23:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t9RZ-0004rA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 16:14:17 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t9RY-0004r5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 16:14:16 +0100 Received: from abc (man-s342.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.45.213]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id f9FFDV030359 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 16:13:32 +0100 Message-ID: <00f801c1558c$0b139660$7c2df7c2@zetnet.co.uk> From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C5E1@PDW-MAIL-R1> Subject: LF: Re: RE: Re: Farewell, LFers Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 16:12:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Friends, When you have time, do join us in our underground LF investigations. They are very much research, as Andy must have gathered in Cornwall. 73 de John Rabson G3PAI ----- Original Message ----- From: "Talbot Andrew" > I was attracted to LF origibnall because it was all about experimentation - > now it has turned into another Dx band my interest has faded and I've gone > back to microwaves where practically no one just wants to have QSOs for the > sake of it From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26211 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 13:43:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 13:43:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 29308 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 13:43:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 13:43:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t7wV-0004Xo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 14:38:07 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t7wU-0004Xj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 14:38:06 +0100 Received: from [62.7.97.245] (helo=cambridge) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15t7vp-0003TV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 14:37:26 +0100 Message-ID: <000701c15578$b4de7980$f561073e@cambridge> From: "Lech Laszkiewicz" To: "RSGB LF Reflector" Subject: LF: LF RELAY Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:54:51 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: My QTH is afflicted by very high QRM level radiated from my overhead mains supply. It was very bad when I first started experimenting with LF and got progressively worse over the years, so much so that I almost gave up on LF. It occured to me early on that if could find a spot clear of QRN within a reasonable distance I could park my car there with a small active receiving antenna and re- transmit 136 KHz signals to my shack, much as many US stations do on HF and VHF over their fixed relay installations. There was a question of the legality of the relay, remotely operated, under UK licence conditions, but it did not look absolutely impossible. There is such a QRN free spot in Crawley, only 2k away from my QTH, namely the Crawley Amateur Radio Club Shack. It seemed reasonble to try the experiment and see if it worked. Stewart G3YSX and Derek G3GRO had similar ideas and went to work on the project. And so, the much maligned MB7LF relay (not repeater) was conceived. It's effectivness was meant to be demonstrated at the RSGB Windsor Convention QTH. In spite of the fact that the Loran cancelling system was not operational it was demonstrated that the idea worked very well indeed. The relay is experimental and is not intended for a permanent global coverage, as I uderstand it. Any amateur with local QRN problem could adapt similar approach. Find a right spot, persuade the owner to allow a small whip antenna on his/her field with a small UHF yagi for relay and there you are. There are already in existence low power UHF systems that do not require a licence in some countries. The regulatory authorities in UK appear to be receptive to amateur needs and may in due course approve such operation on specified conditions. Well, it is all about experimentation and self education. Nobody objected when in the early days of LF I made a short, low power, SSB test transmission with limited audio bandwidth on 136KHz. To my amazement the phone didn't stop ringing for hours but no stones were hurled through my windows. Similarly just because I had a QSO with Windsor using my 50milliwats signal generator and two metres receiver does not mean that it will be my future mode of operation. It was possible only because I live near the relay and line of sight and I enjoy experimenting. I am not claiming any QRP DX awards on that score. 73 to All LF Experimenters and users de Lech G3KAU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28467 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 13:24:41 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 13:24:41 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22282 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 13:22:25 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 13:22:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t7bs-0004TS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 14:16:48 +0100 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t7bp-0004TJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 14:16:46 +0100 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (246.235.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.235.246]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f9FDG4X01631 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 14:16:04 +0100 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011015140639.00a2c4a0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 14:15:38 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: Tree Losses MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 73/136 khz how far away from a wet tree do you have to be not to see any RF loss? At one extreme if your ant runs through it you will lose a lot; at the other if it is several kms away you won't lose anything. Is there a critical distance? And the reverse - if there's a wet tree close to you in the same direction as a transmitter, will you receive a much weaker signal than you ought? Does it act like a metal plate does at microwaves? Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18416 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 13:07:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 13:07:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3880 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 13:05:08 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 13:05:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t7K2-0004PJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:58:22 +0100 Received: from siaag1aa.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t7K0-0004PB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:58:21 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1aa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id IAA10409 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 08:57:37 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 08:55:35 -0400 From: "Holger 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: dcf39/dk8kw To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200110150855_MC3-E362-7109@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Uwe, >question to the dcf39-specialist Geri: what are the exact (0.001Hz) qrgs of mark >and space (in the mark)? ... although I am the LF ham living closest to DCF39 (and by that way feeling a little bit responsible for it -hi-), my measurement equipment does not allow me to tell the exact mark and space frequencies of that transmitter. Frequencies I state on my homepage are from open available sources. So maybe somebody else with more precise equipment can help ... Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19890 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 12:40:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 12:40:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 5794 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 12:38:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 12:38:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t6w2-0004Jy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:33:34 +0100 Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.46]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t6w1-0004Jr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:33:33 +0100 Received: from compaq ([62.253.48.179]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20011015123252.NKBT268.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@compaq> for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:32:52 +0100 Message-ID: <002a01c15575$89b723e0$b330fd3e@compaq> From: "Tracey Gardner" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: 500Khz Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:32:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Yes that would be our very own Finbar! 73s Tracey tracey.gardner@ntlworld.com Lincolnshire U.K. >On the end of this page is writen "...This transmission was sent using a >straight key, by F. O'Connor R/O. " Is that EI0CF ? > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 528 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 12:36:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 12:36:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 15961 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 12:36:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 12:36:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t6qY-0004Is-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:27:54 +0100 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t6qX-0004In-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:27:53 +0100 Received: from [217.35.24.69] (helo=dellboy) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15t6ps-0005t1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:27:12 +0100 Message-ID: <005f01c15574$b07f8900$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E0333BFE4@btss103a.swh.sk> Subject: LF: Re: 500Khz Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:27:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rich Well I guess there could be more than one F O'Connor who is an r/o at Malin Head Radio but it's unlikely! Dave G3YXM. > Hi LF-ers... > > Looking around the LF and MF pages I found this page: > > http://www.esatclear.ie/~mmullins/ejm/500khz.html > > On the end of this page is writen "...This transmission was sent using a > straight key, by F. O'Connor R/O. " Is that EI0CF ? > > 73 de Rich OM2TW > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10281 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 12:36:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 12:36:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1357 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 12:33:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 12:33:53 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t6oZ-0004Ii-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:25:51 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t6oY-0004Id-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:25:50 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15t6ns-0004r6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:25:08 +0100 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15t6nr-0004a9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:25:07 +0100 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:28:17 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: 500Khz In-reply-to: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E0333BFE4@btss103a.swh.sk> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Rich, Finbar O'Connor, EI0CF, was and is an operator at Malin Head Radio, so very likely him... Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11140 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 12:28:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 12:28:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 25087 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 12:27:15 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 12:27:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t6gy-0004Ht-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:18:00 +0100 Received: from siaag2ac.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.133]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t6gw-0004Ho-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:17:59 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2ac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id IAA22487 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 08:17:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 08:16:59 -0400 From: "Holger 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Farewell, LFers -- that's why I like it! To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200110150817_MC3-E33B-EA76@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LF-Group, first of all: I am really sorry to see Steve, GW4ALG, going off board. Steve, I really enjoyed the efforts and struggle we had, and your patience, when we had our first QSO about 2 years ago, which took us, as far as I can remember, well over an hour, just to get our reports passed through. This was for a long time my ODX. We both have improved our stations as well as probably also our communication skills in regards to copy weak signals, so that in the meantime a reliable CW QSO between us is not a real problem anymore. In the past mails in regards to this subject I have seen the entire bandwidth of opinions, that show the inhomogenity so well, and that make the "work" within this group so enjoyable. We have "purists" for whom a "valid" QSO is exactly defined, even if it consists only of the exchange of a report. Other people do only accept QSOs when they are made by people using their own CW skills and do not rely on computer help. Or the people who say, that real radios "glow in the dark", as back in the 20ties or 30ties of last century. We have the technical experts, whom we can ask for explanations for almost each and every detail of our LF hobby (by the way: I have not got a good explanation for my question in regards to my bridge problem ...). We have a group of people who simply enjoy chatting in Morse-code, they meet each weekend and have endless discussions about subjects, that would by far easier be handled by e-mail or the telephone. But they enjoy that kind of chat. We have the ambitious kind of people, who need new records and challenges to be laying ahead of them to get their fulfillment. Europe-America: solved. What's next? America-Pacific? Around the world? We have the propagation enthusiasts, even those without any transmitting equipment, who find their fulfillment simply in observing the Earth's ionosphere reaction to events that happen 150 Million km away. Others have never transmitted or received a single signal on LF, but contributed to our enjoyment a lot by sitting in their shacks in front of their computer screens writing software that help us to detect signals, that other experts don't believe they can ever be detected. The experimenters want to develop new schematics, build them, find out: yes, it works, before they start a new project. And other experimenter's ask the question: can a liner repeater be build that transfers the LF band to another frequency? Then there is the vast majority of all of us who simply enjoy our hobby by a combination of all those (and numerous unmentioned) experimenter's traits and activities. One evening we sit there and build a new device, eager to test it during the next weekend. Then we hear something about someone receiving U.K. on the continent on 73 kHz, and we jump on that train, to enjoy a few crossband QSOs the next day. Besides, we have a few QSOs with those, who like to chat, and give a few advises to those, who start. But we all have in common, that we make use of a modern, non-amateur media to exchange our ideas, discuss our different opinions, and help each other. This is what I have enjoyed in LF operation since my first telephone chat with late Peter, DJ8WL, almost 4 or 5 years ago, in which he mentioned something about a possible operation on frequencies around 130 or 140 kHz, at that time a complete unknown area of the radio spectrum to me. I have tried many facets in ham radio since I was first licensed in 1973 (HF, QRP, DX-peditions, satellite QSOs, ATV, RTTY, etc.) but I have never before in ham radio found such a group as the worldwide LF community ready to help with all their expertise and friendliness. That's what I enjoy! Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 286 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 12:03:51 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 12:03:51 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1532 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 12:01:35 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 12:01:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t6Ib-0004CT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 12:52:49 +0100 Received: from ns3.swh.sk ([192.108.125.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t6IZ-0004CO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 12:52:48 +0100 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes.swh.sk [192.108.125.60]) by ns3.swh.sk (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9FBtwC13861 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:55:58 +0200 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id NAA14614 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:51:48 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:51:46 +0200 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E0333BFE4@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: 500Khz Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 13:51:41 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi LF-ers... Looking around the LF and MF pages I found this page: http://www.esatclear.ie/~mmullins/ejm/500khz.html On the end of this page is writen "...This transmission was sent using a straight key, by F. O'Connor R/O. " Is that EI0CF ? 73 de Rich OM2TW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9902 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 10:44:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 10:44:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 16792 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 10:43:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 10:43:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t50l-0003xl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 11:30:19 +0100 Received: from tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.35]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t50k-0003xJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 11:30:18 +0100 Received: from server1 ([216.209.110.160]) by tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20011015102902.OZEZ27994.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 06:29:02 -0400 Message-ID: <001b01c15564$323fff30$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3BCA01CD.CC0109A1@alg.demon.co.uk> <001701c15548$c4af17a0$15517ad5@dave> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Farewell, LFers Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 06:27:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave: Even in Larry's case, where > a private remote station with (I understand) both receiver and transmitter at the > same location is used, and provided the location of this remote station is used on > any confirmation, is probably OK. "Even", "provided" and "probably OK"????? I rarely differentiate between remote TX or RX or in many cases both in use at one time for one reason or another. > Any claims for best > dx or personal satisfaction in working a particular station is thrown completely out > of the window. It is this deceipt aspect which I think has much upset Ron G6RO, who > rightly thought his signals were being heard in Windsor and not Crawley. "thrown completely out of the window" and "deceipt"??????????????????????? > but wish to make it clear that there are quite a few of us with big reservations > about this 'new technology' tool. Dave, have all the reservations you want, I have no problem with that. I do have a problem when words like "probably OK" and "deceipt" are "thrown" around. From what I read here it seems that you have a problem with what is going on, I urge you to keep your words as your explicit problem. There is not in general a problem. Regards, Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9983 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 10:44:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 10:44:19 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16804 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 10:43:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 10:43:06 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t51o-0003y1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 11:31:24 +0100 Received: from e31.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.129] helo=e31.bld.us.ibm.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t51n-0003xw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 11:31:23 +0100 Received: from westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com [9.99.140.22]) by e31.bld.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA23004 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 06:28:11 -0400 Received: from usa.net (ss6.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.71]) by westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v4.98) with ESMTP id f9FAUbO107976 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 04:30:37 -0600 Message-ID: <3BCABAB7.EA79FA47@usa.net> Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 12:30:15 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: Farewell, LFers References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C5E1@PDW-MAIL-R1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Talbot Andrew wrote: > There are also still many of us on LF, fortunately, whose interest is in the > science and technology of radio communication, rather than merely having > QSOs. > [...] I agree 100% with this point of view. The real fascination of amateur radio is in its technical aspects and challenges. If I just want to chat with someone, I use the cellular phone. And I prefer to look forward, not backward. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29857 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 10:28:20 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 10:28:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 174 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 10:26:04 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 10:26:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t4jf-0003vS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 11:12:39 +0100 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t4ja-0003vL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 11:12:37 +0100 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (117.235.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.235.117]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f9FABqe13643 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 11:11:52 +0100 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011015100252.00a7fec0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 11:11:21 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: MB7LF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Can't help feeling some of the reaction to MB7LF is premature. It isn't a fixture; it's experimental only; you don't HAVE to use it even if you're within range; and if QSO's through it are thought to be "not playing the game" then so be it. We can easily say that no QSO's through it reckon for any award. But it wasn't set up for DX'ing. A lot of amateurs, some known to me personally, don't have huge antenna farms and don't live in the nice quiet countryside but would like to have a go at LF anyway. They can't hear much because of all the tellys and SMPSU's and haven't the space for more than a little inverted-L so anything they put out is only going to be in the milliwatt, probably microwatt, range. There is still a lot of interest to be had putting even that out, as I've been finding myself lately, but nobody much will hear it. A repeater can at least confirm you're putting out something, which is nice. It also helps considerably fiddling about with coil tuning and aerial layouts. You're very lucky if you know a co-operative ham who has nothing to do but listen to your weak transmissions for hours on end reporting slight changes in strength. Meters in the shack don't tell all. Yesterday I put my microwatt squeaker on the air and although all the indications in the shack were normal I could see from the repeater I wasn't getting out. My aerial feeder had blown into a large and very wet bush and when I pulled it clear all was normal again. And the difference between low and high-Q coils can be seen in seconds. I only wish there were a lot more repeaters around me so I could get the sort of signal-strength measurements Jim MBU has been doing lately without having to spend days driving around the countryside. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8994 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 09:11:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 09:11:48 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 29837 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 09:11:31 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 09:11:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t3i8-0003lH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 10:07:00 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t3i7-0003lC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 10:06:59 +0100 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id KAA31310; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 10:13:51 +0100 (BST) Received: (qmail 18147 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 09:58:52 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk (192.168.9.10) by baton.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 09:58:52 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk; id JAA25664; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 09:36:04 GMT Received: from unknown(172.17.128.171) by gauntlet.mail.dstl.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma025469; Mon, 15 Oct 01 09:35:27 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 09:08:31 +0100 Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <443L729M>; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 09:04:22 +0100 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C5E1@PDW-MAIL-R1> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re: Farewell, LFers Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 09:04:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: There are also still many of us on LF, fortunately, whose interest is in the science and technology of radio communication, rather than merely having QSOs. Repeaters such as this reflect the true spirit of amateur radio experimentation, and enable several operators in the Crawley area to be able to receive on 137kHz where they otherwise wouldn't be able to due to severe local QRM. The repeater was built for that reason - It was all explained in detail at the LF Convention (oops, Freudian slip - HF Convention) on Saturday. Amateur radio is slowly dying off anyway these days due to the vastly reduced number of newcomers coming in, and if these sort of backwards looking attitudes andinsistance on simplicity prevail, it will attact no newcomers who see it as an old-mans hobby for those who want to just sit and waffle. I was attracted to LF origibnall because it was all about experimentation - now it has turned into another Dx band my interest has faded and I've gone back to microwaves where practically no one just wants to have QSOs for the sake of it Andy G4JNT > > I do not want to start long arguments on the reflector (or I > will also unsubscribe) > but wish to make it clear that there are quite a few of us > with big reservations > about this 'new technology' tool. > > > AND > >Being a simple fellow; the attraction of 136 kHz for me was always the >simplicity of the station equipment, and the reliance on one's own efforts >to communicate by radio. For this reason, 136 often felt like an amateur >band 'frozen' in time - a sort of refuge: where one might get a taste of >what it was like to be a pioneer in the 1940s. > >But, as operation on 136 now takes on a new dimension: adopting all the >trappings of the black-box era, I have decided to dismantle my LF station. >For now, I'll go back to constructing and operating HF QRP equipment. I >very much hope to see you there! > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18109 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 08:48:05 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 08:48:05 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 2792 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 08:47:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 08:47:48 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t3Kr-0003gS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 09:42:57 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t3Kq-0003gN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 09:42:56 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA590616 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 10:42:14 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20011015094029.388f0df6@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 09:40:29 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Farewell, LFers In-reply-to: <004501c15523$b5b35650$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> References: <3BCA01CD.CC0109A1@alg.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I'm a bit surprised that a 'gadget' like a 136kHz - 144MHz transponder creates that much reactions and even makes some of us to dismantle their LF antennas. In my eyes it is up to anyone to decide how 'valid' his QSO's are when he took the help of such a transponder. Personaly I wouldn't have any reservation if a transponder or UHF-link is used by hams with a poor RX location (high QRM levels) to improve their 'ears', as long as the mayor part of the path is done on LF. So in Larry's case it is clear that the few miles between his QTH and the RX-site are neglectible compared to the several 1000 miles to Europe. More in gerneral I agree 100% with Steve that 136kHz has been very refreshing, far away from the competition and the 'wanting to have the biggest' one notices on HF and up. But for me it is still so, regardless wether MB7LF is on the air or not. If I look back at the almost 4 years of my 'LF-life' the main thing I see is not my personal achievement or that from any other ham in particular, it is the collective achievement we made. In the first days we hardly could reach the other end of the street, it took me over 2 months to make my first QSO. But step by step the equipement was improved, propagation was investigated and new modes were developed with the result that within 3 years we were able to cross the atlantic. I hope that nobody is mad at me when I claim that this was not the achievement of just 1 or 2 people, but that a whole group contributed in many ways : designing transmitters and antennas, investigating propagation, develloping receiving and transmitting software and so on ... This is what I like most about 136kHz, the fact that we are working together instead of in competition. And that won't change wether we have a transponder to VHF or not. So ... for what it is worth ... hope to work you again on LF Steve. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24835 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 08:36:04 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 08:36:04 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 19350 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 08:34:45 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 08:34:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t38B-0003eF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 09:29:51 +0100 Received: from ns3.swh.sk ([192.108.125.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t384-0003eA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 09:29:44 +0100 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes.swh.sk [192.108.125.60]) by ns3.swh.sk (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f9F8WuC01921 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 10:32:56 +0200 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA27366 for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 10:28:46 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 10:28:43 +0200 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E0333BFD6@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: Weekend report... Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 10:28:43 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi LF-ers... Nice weekend and a lot of activity. Worked Karl OE1KM for the first time. Btw, I had also a QSO with Mal G3KEV and he was extremely strong. He was near the noise floor all the day (319-339) but around 1830Z he was 579-599. I recorded him several times during last two years, but this is the best one. Look the "sounds gallery" on my web http://www.qsl.net/om2tw. 73 de Rich OM2TW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28560 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 07:19:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 07:19:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 841 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 07:17:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 07:17:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t1x5-0003Sa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 08:14:19 +0100 Received: from fep01.swip.net ([130.244.199.129] helo=fep01-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t1x4-0003SV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 08:14:18 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.11.22]) by fep01-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20011015071334.PUVY9404.fep01-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 09:13:34 +0200 Message-ID: <005201c15548$e629f440$160b97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: SV: new Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 09:13:30 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Mal, I doubt that SM3UWI is active on LF. You probably had a QSO with Wolfgang SM3UWS (who is experimenting a lot on 136). Wolfgang's email address: sm3uws.wolf@telia.com 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24433 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 07:18:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 07:18:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 26650 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 07:16:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 07:16:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t1v9-0003ST-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 08:12:19 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15t1v8-0003SO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 08:12:18 +0100 Received: from [213.122.81.21] (helo=dave) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15t1uR-0000TS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 08:11:37 +0100 Message-ID: <001701c15548$c4af17a0$15517ad5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" References: <3BCA01CD.CC0109A1@alg.demon.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Farewell, LFers Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 08:10:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC I am indeed sorry to see that Steve will be leaving the LF scene, and having probably had more QSOs with him over the past few years than I can count, my log book will be less full in the future. However I have to admit to sharing many of Steve's feelings regarding the new 2m relay. G0MRF wrote: >Oh fiddle. I guess I'll have to burn my satellite QSLs The big difference with satellite QSOs and indeed those for normal terrestrial repeaters is that both parties in the QSO are fully aware that they are using this relay, where it is, and any QSL card should hopefully clearly state that it is a satellite or repeater QSO. There is nothing wrong here. Even in Larry's case, where a private remote station with (I understand) both receiver and transmitter at the same location is used, and provided the location of this remote station is used on any confirmation, is probably OK. Here we have a PUBLIC relay, with a well publicised frequency, which either side (or both) can use and the remote party unless told is not aware of its use. Rather than being local to one of the stations it could be many miles away. Any claims for best dx or personal satisfaction in working a particular station is thrown completely out of the window. It is this deceipt aspect which I think has much upset Ron G6RO, who rightly thought his signals were being heard in Windsor and not Crawley. I must admit to a certain involvement in Ron's QSO with MB2HFC as I was asked to help copy his weak signal (but did not actually transmit). It was not obvious to me at the time that I was receiving using a remote receiver, despite the presence of a block diagram on the adjacent table, and may not have been apparent to passing visitors unless they were told. But I would comment that Ron's QRP signals were MUCH weaker on this set up than I have been receiving him here. It would have helped if the operator had told Ron that a remote receive set up was being used and its location, like Derek did yesterday when I worked the station. Yesterday I did monitor MB7LF for a while. I do not need to use it here, as my own receive set up is perfectly adequate. I noted that Tom G3OLB is very weak via the relay. I do not want to start long arguments on the reflector (or I will also unsubscribe) but wish to make it clear that there are quite a few of us with big reservations about this 'new technology' tool. 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23992 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 02:56:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 02:56:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 9430 invoked from network); 15 Oct 2001 02:56:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Oct 2001 02:56:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15sxnr-0002sy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 03:48:31 +0100 Received: from tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.74]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15sxnq-0002st-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 03:48:30 +0100 Received: from server1 ([216.209.138.178]) by tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20011015024718.YCFV14703.tomts20-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 22:47:18 -0400 Message-ID: <004501c15523$b5b35650$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3BCA01CD.CC0109A1@alg.demon.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Farewell, LFers Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 22:47:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Oh My..... I > I now know that it's time for me to QSY. and > I have learned today that > at least two operators who 'worked' MB2HFC over the past weekend were > unaware that their 136 kHz signals had, in fact, been relayed to MB2HFC via > a repeater, located several miles away from the demonstration station. > (The operators concerned had, not unreasonably, believed that their signals > were received via a conventional signal path - without the assistance of > relay equipment.) Was anybody unaware that I have been using a UHF repeater linking system for some 10,000 HF CW QSO's over the last 11 years, most of my LF Activity from Eastern Ontario, several thousand hours of LDE test observations? Should we declare the Trans Atlantic QSO from here null and void because I use a UHF relay from my remote site to my home? Is it really anyone's business but mine that I use a radio relay system to remote control my amateur radio systems - I don't think so. The first repeater/remote control systems were published in the early 1920's, the first regular usage of amateur radio relayed/repeated HF/VHF systems began in the mid 1930's. There are now an estimated 300+ remote controlled HF/VHF repeaterd systems in existence on this mudball. One of the biggest QRPers on HF has been using an HF/VHF relay system for the last 6 years, he visited my system and went home and built his own system. QRPers do it as well...... Goodbye Steve. Sorry to see you go, your choice of course. Larry VA3LK Now lets get back to doing new things new ways............................. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17430 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2001 22:49:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Oct 2001 22:49:33 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23018 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2001 22:47:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Oct 2001 22:47:10 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15stws-0002Jf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 23:41:34 +0100 Received: from mailout04.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.18] helo=mailout04.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15stwq-0002Ja-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 23:41:32 +0100 Received: from fwd05.sul.t-online.de by mailout04.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 15stw7-0000hL-00; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 00:40:47 +0200 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[193.159.25.202]) by fwd05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 15stvo-1UYKbAC; Mon, 15 Oct 2001 00:40:28 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200110041306_MC3-E238-AB2D@compuserve.com> Subject: LF: dcf39/dk8kw X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060506030002090006070904" Date: Mon, 15 Oct 2001 00:40:28 +0200 Message-ID: <15stvo-1UYKbAC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060506030002090006070904 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Geri es All, as Markus/df6nm mentioned in a direct e-mail the mark of DCF39 is keyed (MFSK? see attechment; SpecLab-shot, 0.014Hz resolution, center frequ. 800.0Hz = 138.83x.xkHz). question to the dcf39-specialist Geri: what are the exact (0.001Hz) qrgs of mark and space (in the mark)? regards Uwe/dj8wx --------------060506030002090006070904 Content-Type: image/gif; name="SPEC104.GIF" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="SPEC104.GIF" R0lGODdhFQHNAPcAAAAAAAAAQAAAgAAA/wAgAAAgQAAggAAg/wBAAABAQABAgABA/wBgAABg QABggABg/wCAAACAQACAgACA/wCgAACgQACggACg/wDAAADAQADAgADA/wD/AAD/QAD/gAD/ /yAAACAAQCAAgCAA/yAgACAgQCAggCAg/yBAACBAQCBAgCBA/yBgACBgQCBggCBg/yCAACCA QCCAgCCA/yCgACCgQCCggCCg/yDAACDAQCDAgCDA/yD/ACD/QCD/gCD//0AAAEAAQEAAgEAA /0AgAEAgQEAggEAg/0BAAEBAQEBAgEBA/0BgAEBgQEBggEBg/0CAAECAQECAgECA/0CgAECg QECggECg/0DAAEDAQEDAgEDA/0D/AED/QED/gED//2AAAGAAQGAAgGAA/2AgAGAgQGAggGAg /2BAAGBAQGBAgGBA/2BgAGBgQGBggGBg/2CAAGCAQGCAgGCA/2CgAGCgQGCggGCg/2DAAGDA QGDAgGDA/2D/AGD/QGD/gGD//4AAAIAAQIAAgIAA/4AgAIAgQIAggIAg/4BAAIBAQIBAgIBA 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pFU8MqxLLOTTuF6cQX0TxWA0xmJERmB8RfCKxTeLm1qMO1XKxWmUO+HLsdC6NzXDN9izN7DL xm/0xnDsxnEEvG5qxoOzJ5Bo5MBxosZNrMZG2rE0qzgs87N6tDh7pMd71Md85Md5HMT/sYVz pLQeUsfukkZcRMjxG6tLk8SGhMRJ1KndOyMWEUhSMyVo1EVqjKlFVMitYsiHdEiTikQtQqdY NMQ0PMiNDLoMdEPv07+XHKNRIrxL/K2atMmbxMmc1Mmd5Mme9MmfBMqgFMqhJMqiNErqCQgA Ow== --------------060506030002090006070904-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3395 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2001 22:05:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Oct 2001 22:05:23 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15254 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2001 22:03:05 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Oct 2001 22:03:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15stGw-0002Bs-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 22:58:14 +0100 Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.103]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15stGu-0002Bn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 22:58:13 +0100 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.8.) id l.fb.1b4c68c7 (18254) for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 17:57:27 -0400 (EDT) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 17:57:27 EDT Subject: Re: LF: Re: GB3LF To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 10505 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit In a message dated 10/14/01 3:39:55 PM GMT Daylight Time, dsergeant@connectfree.co.uk writes:


!  And of course I would never use it to
claim for QSOs I could not make using my own receiver.

73s Dave G3YMC
dsergeant@iee.org
dsergeant@btinternet.com
http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk






Oh fiddle.  I guess I'll have to burn my satellite QSLs.

Seriously though. Thanks to Stewart Derek and all at Crawley club for MB3LF, without which, the only two stations worked this weekend by MB2HFC would have been Dave YXM and G3KEV.

Good to see everyone at Windsor, hope you all enjoyed it as much as I did.

73

David  G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21707 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2001 21:40:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Oct 2001 21:40:38 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5410 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2001 21:38:20 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Oct 2001 21:38:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15sst0-00029D-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 22:33:30 +0100 Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15sssz-000298-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 22:33:29 +0100 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15sssK-0004vc-0C for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 21:32:49 +0000 Message-ID: <3BCA01CD.CC0109A1@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 22:21:17 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Farewell, LFers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, It sure has been fun on 136 kHz over the past three and a half years, but I now know that it's time for me to QSY. For me, the recent introduction of repeaters on 136 has completely changed the band. I refer, of course, to the 136 kHz to 144 MHz repeater that has been installed in the south of England, relaying the 136 kHz band to 2 metres. As well as wondering whether the recent pirate activity on 136 was in some way precipitated by the presence of the repeater; I have learned today that at least two operators who 'worked' MB2HFC over the past weekend were unaware that their 136 kHz signals had, in fact, been relayed to MB2HFC via a repeater, located several miles away from the demonstration station. (The operators concerned had, not unreasonably, believed that their signals were received via a conventional signal path - without the assistance of relay equipment.) Being a simple fellow; the attraction of 136 kHz for me was always the simplicity of the station equipment, and the reliance on one's own efforts to communicate by radio. For this reason, 136 often felt like an amateur band 'frozen' in time - a sort of refuge: where one might get a taste of what it was like to be a pioneer in the 1940s. But, as operation on 136 now takes on a new dimension: adopting all the trappings of the black-box era, I have decided to dismantle my LF station. For now, I'll go back to constructing and operating HF QRP equipment. I very much hope to see you there! Naturally, I will be unsubscribing from the LF Reflector - just as soon as I can figure out how to do it! Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG steve@alg.demon.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12241 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2001 21:00:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Oct 2001 21:00:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8570 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2001 20:59:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Oct 2001 20:59:58 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ssHb-000232-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 21:54:51 +0100 Received: from mailout02.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.17] helo=mailout02.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15ssHY-00022x-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 21:54:49 +0100 Received: from fwd00.sul.t-online.de by mailout02.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 15ssGc-0007ll-03; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 22:53:50 +0200 Received: from t-online.de (0597156897-0001@[62.158.156.128]) by fwd00.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 15ssGM-1XncOmC; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 22:53:34 +0200 Message-ID: <3BC9F9EC.C594F90@t-online.de> Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 22:47:40 +0200 From: "Schenk-Kurz" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW0324v (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: My 1st VLF QSO! Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 0597156897-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hallo, I had my first 2-way contact on 136 kHz today with Uli, DJ9IE over a distance of 106 km (I gave 579/got 539). Thanks a lot, Uli! Estimated ERP was only about 20mW (antenna: ca. 27m long INV-L, 20m horiz, at 9-10m, bad groundsystem) , so other stations (tnx to DK8KW for patient listening!!) were not able to hear me so far, but I will improove my antenna system soon. With a little luck I will be able to build up a wire-antenna of 300m or even more in an adequate height (10m +) at our clubstation.. hope to meet you on 136, SWL-reports are also very welcome! 73 de Fabian DJ1YFK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22952 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2001 18:35:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Oct 2001 18:35:41 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15723 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2001 18:34:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Oct 2001 18:34:22 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15sq1j-0001mz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 19:30:19 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15sq1i-0001mu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 19:30:18 +0100 Received: from ldsas02-66-117-206.cw-visp.com ([212.137.117.206] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15sps8-0007c4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 18:20:24 +0000 Message-ID: <3BC9CB1B.58A09549@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 18:27:55 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: new Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All Lots of acty today Sunday, band vy qrl and lots of dx about. Worked SM3UWI a new one for me. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28748 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2001 17:17:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Oct 2001 17:17:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 26348 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2001 17:16:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Oct 2001 17:16:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15solT-0001dG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 18:09:27 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15solS-0001dB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 18:09:26 +0100 Received: from [213.122.94.240] (helo=cambridge) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15sokn-0001dj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 18:08:46 +0100 Message-ID: <002501c154cd$0e07b6e0$f05e7ad5@cambridge> From: "Lech Laszkiewicz" To: "RSGB LF Reflector" Subject: LF: QRP LF Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 17:26:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Apologies for the QRG error in my previous email . The Frequency of the relay is 144.9864 USB. de Lech G3KAU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4263 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2001 16:19:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Oct 2001 16:19:52 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21541 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2001 16:19:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Oct 2001 16:19:40 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15snpe-0001W8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 17:09:42 +0100 Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.101]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15snpd-0001W3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 17:09:41 +0100 Received: from northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (northrelay01.pok.ibm.com [9.117.200.21]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA210578 for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 12:06:03 -0400 Received: from usa.net (ss3.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.68]) by northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v4.97.1) with ESMTP id f9EG8Mo149862 for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 12:08:26 -0400 Message-ID: <3BC9B860.FC9F5BA3@usa.net> Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 18:08:01 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: MB7LF Remote LF relay from 136kHz Operational References: <001801c151bc$1a24b7c0$fa4201d5@j1r9b7> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Derek Atter wrote: > >From G3GRO/G3YSX > > Initial tests have begun to relay the whole of the 136kHz band from a remote > receiving site located at IO91VC as an experiment. The relayed output will > be initially on 144.9876Mhz USB. See the attachment for more details. > [...] I see from the attachment that there are also plans for relaying the 136kHz band on 10 and 6 meters. Please announce on this reflector when those QRGs will become operative. I have no chances to receive from my QTH the 2-meter transmitter... 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22777 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2001 15:38:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Oct 2001 15:38:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 18188 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2001 15:37:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Oct 2001 15:37:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15snFT-0001RJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 16:32:19 +0100 Received: from [212.204.115.10] (helo=hugo.fen-net.de ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15snFS-0001RE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 16:32:18 +0100 Received: from DEFAULT (dialin-nbg-052.fen-net.de [212.204.116.52]) by hugo.fen-net.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id RAA16738 for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 17:32:19 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <002101c154c5$786a2fc0$6a74ccd4@DEFAULT> From: "Walter" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: MB2HFC and weekend report Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 17:32:23 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hello Wolf and All,
   some additional info about the working conditions of DK3GH - he is living 9Km apart:
He has only 12watts out from a two-tubes transmitter (EL84 and LS50), but his 40meters long wire is up 50meters(!) on the top of a 16-floor apartment house, where he lives. And he looks far down to the 110kV-high-voltage-line. A dream.  Sri Ralph is not on the reflektor.
73 Walter DJ2LF
 
 
-----Ursprüngliche Nachricht-----
Von: DL4YHF@aol.com <DL4YHF@aol.com>
An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org <rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org>
Datum: Sonntag, 14. Oktober 2001 14:29
Betreff: LF: MB2HFC and weekend report

Hello group,
I hard MB2HFC on saturday and sunday with good signal, but got no reply.
I guess the 136kHz->144MHz transponder has the same problem as some AmSat's, suffering from very strong "inband" signals as they were present this weekend.
Anyway, was nice to listen to a lot of QSOs going on. Heard but not worked:
OH1TN (549), EI0CF(439 in local QRM), MB2HFC(559), G3YXM(589).

Worked for the first time: DK3GH in southern DL, loc JN59, 449 in local QRM (would otherwise have been perfect copy). Thanks Ralph if you are on this reflector.

Also thanks to the Crawley guys and all at the LF(!) meeting to trigger some activities on the band. I will try again later today, but the QRN is already on its way. It is unusually warm for the season here, 22 deg C and very humid. Thunderstorms on the way, static crashes on 137 kHz already audible at 11:00 UTC.

Best wishes, have a nice Sunday.
 Wolf  DL4YHF (operating from DF0WD in JO42FD, max 100mW ERP).
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21455 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2001 14:41:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Oct 2001 14:41:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 3942 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2001 14:41:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Oct 2001 14:41:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15smMx-0001Ka-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 15:35:59 +0100 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15smMw-0001KV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 15:35:58 +0100 Received: from [62.7.85.163] (helo=dave) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15smMH-0007Zs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 15:35:17 +0100 Message-ID: <001401c154bd$951ad3c0$a355073e@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011010203334.00a2f7e0@mail.pncl.co.uk> <008001c1526e$e486bc40$315c073e@dave> Subject: LF: Re: GB3LF Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 15:34:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC On 11/10/01 I wrote: >I can detect no trace of MB7LF on 144.9976 using my collinear however, maybe not a >good sign for the weekend. While looking around the shack this morning I happened to notice that my 2m collinear was not plugged into my FT290. Whoops! It reminds me of a cartoon some of you may recall in a RadCom of many many years ago.... OK, I can now receive the relay, not that it is of much use with a FT290 bandwidth. The wrong frequency I quoted above was of course a typo, but in fact it is not that far from what my '290 shows the frequency! And of course I would never use it to claim for QSOs I could not make using my own receiver. 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26785 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2001 14:26:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Oct 2001 14:26:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 15587 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2001 14:25:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Oct 2001 14:25:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15sm9c-0001Ie-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 15:22:12 +0100 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15sm9b-0001IZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 15:22:11 +0100 Received: from [213.1.74.166] (helo=cambridge) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15sm8u-0006B2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 15:21:30 +0100 Message-ID: <000701c154b5$af8f4360$a64a01d5@cambridge> From: "Lech Laszkiewicz" To: "RSGB LF Reflector" Subject: LF: QRP LF Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 14:39:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Just had my first QRP 136 KHz QSO from Crawley with MB2HFC in Windsor, using my signal generator (50mW) for TX, two pieces of wire for the keyer and 2 metres receiver. Derek G3GRO operating theWindsor station at the RSGB Convention gave me rst 559. Wonderful what the two metres LF relay on 144.64MHz (ML7LFcan do!). 73 to All on LF de Lech G3KAU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23315 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2001 14:15:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Oct 2001 14:15:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 8656 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2001 14:14:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Oct 2001 14:14:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15slyY-0001HK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 15:10:46 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15slyX-0001HF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 15:10:45 +0100 Received: from [62.7.64.96] (helo=default) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15slxs-0000xW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 15:10:04 +0100 Message-ID: <000701c154b9$46e85a00$6040073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: MB2HFC and weekend report Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 14:19:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Wolf, I dont know why the guys at Windsor did not copy, you were a clear signal here (JO02PB) on the computer speakers in 2.1kHz bandwidth, even with other activity on the band. I would guess a 549, but I am at least 150kms closer to you than the HFC Station. It could be conditions I suppose even over that distance.....but that was covered in my talk. Thanks are due to you for the software that produced the data at CT1DRP, which I mainly used for illustrating my talk. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com -----Original Message----- From: DL4YHF@aol.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 14 October 2001 13:15 Subject: LF: MB2HFC and weekend report >Hello group, >I hard MB2HFC on saturday and sunday with good signal, but got no reply. >I guess the 136kHz->144MHz transponder has the same problem as some AmSat's, >suffering from very strong "inband" signals as they were present this weekend. >Anyway, was nice to listen to a lot of QSOs going on. Heard but not worked: >OH1TN (549), EI0CF(439 in local QRM), MB2HFC(559), G3YXM(589). > >Worked for the first time: DK3GH in southern DL, loc JN59, 449 in local QRM >(would otherwise have been perfect copy). Thanks Ralph if you are on this >reflector. > >Also thanks to the Crawley guys and all at the LF(!) meeting to trigger some >activities on the band. I will try again later today, but the QRN is already >on its way. It is unusually warm for the season here, 22 deg C and very >humid. Thunderstorms on the way, static crashes on 137 kHz already audible at >11:00 UTC. > >Best wishes, have a nice Sunday. > Wolf DL4YHF (operating from DF0WD in JO42FD, max 100mW ERP). > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22936 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2001 13:39:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Oct 2001 13:39:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 479 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2001 13:38:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Oct 2001 13:38:33 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15slPj-0001CX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 14:34:47 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15slPi-0001CS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 14:34:47 +0100 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15slP1-0005A9-0W for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 14:34:03 +0100 Message-ID: <3BC99623.46AACA58@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 14:41:55 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: G6RO QRP References: <200110082000.f98K0wo06901@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Ko Versteeg wrote: > Hi Steve, & Group > > Make that 482Km! > Just to be sure i heard Ron Qrp once, i searched my log... > > 05-01-2001 19:28z 136.97 G6RO 539 working ON6ND 579 > 22-04-2001 09:05z 136.52 G6RO 549 working PA0BWL 599 > 07-10-2001 15:08z 136.50 G6RO 549 working MM0ALM 599 > > 73 Ko Versteeg, NL9222 [SWL] > [Grid: JO22KE - Lat: 52° 12' 15.0"N Long: 04° 51' 40.5"E] Hi Ko! Ron G6RO has now received the copy of your report that I sent to him by post. Naturally, he was delighted to know that his signals were audible at NL9222. More news: I understand that Ron had two QSOs with Finbar EI0CF this morning (Sunday)! On the first occasion he received RST 419 from Finbar; and the got RST 519 for the second QSO. That makes four countries worked on QRP - and heard in five countries! Regards to all Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6890 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2001 12:17:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Oct 2001 12:17:51 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22423 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2001 12:17:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Oct 2001 12:17:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15sk8e-00013F-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 13:13:04 +0100 Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.35]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15sk8d-000137-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 13:13:03 +0100 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.8.) id l.76.114611c3 (4410) for ; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 08:12:11 -0400 (EDT) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <76.114611c3.28fadb1a@aol.com> Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 08:12:10 EDT Subject: LF: MB2HFC and weekend report To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 10504 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello group,
I hard MB2HFC on saturday and sunday with good signal, but got no reply.
I guess the 136kHz->144MHz transponder has the same problem as some AmSat's, suffering from very strong "inband" signals as they were present this weekend.
Anyway, was nice to listen to a lot of QSOs going on. Heard but not worked:
OH1TN (549), EI0CF(439 in local QRM), MB2HFC(559), G3YXM(589).

Worked for the first time: DK3GH in southern DL, loc JN59, 449 in local QRM (would otherwise have been perfect copy). Thanks Ralph if you are on this reflector.

Also thanks to the Crawley guys and all at the LF(!) meeting to trigger some activities on the band. I will try again later today, but the QRN is already on its way. It is unusually warm for the season here, 22 deg C and very humid. Thunderstorms on the way, static crashes on 137 kHz already audible at 11:00 UTC.

Best wishes, have a nice Sunday.
 Wolf  DL4YHF (operating from DF0WD in JO42FD, max 100mW ERP). From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19573 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2001 11:39:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Oct 2001 11:39:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11456 invoked from network); 14 Oct 2001 11:38:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Oct 2001 11:38:04 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15sjSw-0000xA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 12:29:58 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.33 #2) id 15sjSv-0000x5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 12:29:57 +0100 Received: from ldsas07-71-122-153.cw-visp.com ([212.137.122.153] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15sjJI-0004UE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 14 Oct 2001 11:20:01 +0000 Message-ID: <3BC96906.CB23D0A9@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sun, 14 Oct 2001 11:29:26 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: ZL6QH & access to 136 References: <6759669.1002876291241.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> <00ca01c153b0$a30444c0$2fb51bca@xtr743187> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Vernall wrote: > John G4CNN, > > In response to points: > > > Presumably the 5 watts you mention is the upper limit permitted? > > Yes, a ZL LF permit allows up to 5 watts radiated power. > > > Please keep us in the picture re schedules, so that we can be > listening/watching at the right time. > > Some homework is needed on sunset and sunrise times, as near-antipodean > paths do not have much mutual darkness for each end of a path. In practice > ZL6QH would transmit for all hours of local darkness, and selection of > reception time(s) can be estimated at "your end". > > Dates already identified for LF DX testing from ZL and VK are 1 and 15 > December (Saturday night ZL time, which is +13 hours on UTC). These dates > were not selected on the basis of good sunrise and sunset times with respect > to Europe, but they could be times for a 136 kHz squirt from ZL6QH. > > 73, Bob Hello Bob. I have worked ZL many times on 160 metres so maybe I am in with a chance on 136 khz. I have suitable LF antennas for the job if it is at all possibe to make the distance. Best times on 160 are sunset/sunrise times this might also be the optimum for 136 khz but it does not always follow on LF. Signals on 136 khz around EU are just as good day time as well as night, at longer distances we will have to find out. I frequently work OH1TN daytime at 589 each way over 1600 km away, his signal is just as good day time as night, in fact there is more noise during the dark hours. 73 and gl de Mal/G3KEV/Scarborough From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13127 invoked from network); 13 Oct 2001 17:57:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Oct 2001 17:57:28 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4709 invoked from network); 13 Oct 2001 17:56:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Oct 2001 17:56:14 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15sSro-0005Kv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2001 18:46:32 +0100 Received: from mailout06.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.19] helo=mailout06.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15sSrn-0005Kq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2001 18:46:31 +0100 Received: from fwd04.sul.t-online.de by mailout06.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 15sSr8-00073C-04; Sat, 13 Oct 2001 19:45:50 +0200 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.157.30.159]) by fwd04.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 15sSr1-1bc6SWC; Sat, 13 Oct 2001 19:45:43 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3BC818A2.6027D327@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: Re: LF: new X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 19:45:43 +0200 Message-ID: <15sSr1-1bc6SWC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: gii3kev schrieb: >...................... OH1TN appears most early evenings > at strength 5 8 9 with me. It seems no one else is about or cannot hear > him. > G3KEV > Hi Mal, protest ! Im qsoing with Reino or Kai (oh3lyg) vy often. not early evenings but at midnights and later. Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26251 invoked from network); 13 Oct 2001 11:45:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Oct 2001 11:45:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18470 invoked from network); 13 Oct 2001 11:45:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Oct 2001 11:45:29 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15sN40-0001hf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2001 12:34:44 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15sN3z-0001ha-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2001 12:34:43 +0100 Received: from ldsas04-68-119-113.cw-visp.com ([212.137.119.113] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15sMuN-0002eP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2001 11:24:47 +0000 Message-ID: <3BC818A2.6027D327@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 11:34:10 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: new Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: A new one worked on 136 khz for me this afternoon OK1DTN/Rudo not too strong at 439. Occasional dx about on the band during the week but seldom anyone else responds to them. OH1TN appears most early evenings at strength 5 8 9 with me. It seems no one else is about or cannot hear him. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19551 invoked from network); 13 Oct 2001 06:46:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Oct 2001 06:46:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 5009 invoked from network); 13 Oct 2001 06:44:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Oct 2001 06:44:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15sIJn-0007OW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2001 07:30:43 +0100 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.129]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15sIJk-0007OR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 13 Oct 2001 07:30:42 +0100 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.181.72]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20011013062923.HFPU17308.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Sat, 13 Oct 2001 19:29:23 +1300 Message-ID: <00ca01c153b0$a30444c0$2fb51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <6759669.1002876291241.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> Subject: Re: LF: ZL6QH & access to 136 Date: Sat, 13 Oct 2001 19:29:52 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John G4CNN, In response to points: > Presumably the 5 watts you mention is the upper limit permitted? Yes, a ZL LF permit allows up to 5 watts radiated power. > Please keep us in the picture re schedules, so that we can be listening/watching at the right time. Some homework is needed on sunset and sunrise times, as near-antipodean paths do not have much mutual darkness for each end of a path. In practice ZL6QH would transmit for all hours of local darkness, and selection of reception time(s) can be estimated at "your end". Dates already identified for LF DX testing from ZL and VK are 1 and 15 December (Saturday night ZL time, which is +13 hours on UTC). These dates were not selected on the basis of good sunrise and sunset times with respect to Europe, but they could be times for a 136 kHz squirt from ZL6QH. 73, Bob From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24094 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2001 17:49:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Oct 2001 17:49:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11007 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2001 17:49:24 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Oct 2001 17:49:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15s6H1-0008Rf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2001 18:39:03 +0100 Received: from [204.202.140.199] (helo=gomailmta-bc.seamail.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15s6Gy-0008RY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2001 18:39:00 +0100 Received: from gomailjtp05 ([10.212.0.165]) by mta07.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GL3004KDSWJVW@mta07.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:36:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 10:36:20 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Sexton" Subject: LF: Re: Random letters on 137 kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <6704705.1002908180960.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060304000804080807010705" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060304000804080807010705 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi All, I attach a .gif file of the mystery slow cw? signal on 136.97 captured this morning when it was seen to be present from 09.18 - 09.40 ut. It is East-West from Reading. Hope it survives the reflector limit. 73 John, G4CNN ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com --------------060304000804080807010705 Content-Type: image/gif; name="image1.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="image1.gif" R0lGODlhUgIsAPcAAAAAAAICCgEDJQAIMQAAOQAAQgAIPQgQOQAASgAAUgAISgAQRggKRAgQ ShAQQh4jSQAAWgAIUgAIWgAQUgAQWggIUggIWggQUggQWggYUggYWhAQUhAUVhAYWhQcUiQp UgAAYwAIYwAIawAQYwAQawgIYwgIawgIcxgYWggQYwgYYxAQYxAYYwoQbRgQaxgYYwgYawgh axAYaxAhWhAhYxghXhAhaxgYaxgpYyEhXhghaxgpayMpYCElaycvZjEyZxAQcwgYcxAYcxgY cxAYexgYexAYhBgYhAghcxAhcxghcyEhcykhcxAhexgheyEhexAhhBghhCEhhBghjCEhjBgp cyEpcykpcxgpeyEpeykpexgphCEphCkphBgpjCEpjBwxdyExeyExhCkxcykxeyE5hCExjCkp jDExczExeykxhDExhCs5dTE5eyk9hDE5hCEplCExlCkplCkxjCk5jDExjCkxlC4xmTE5jCk5 lDE5lCk5nDE5nDE5pTFCjClClD07bTxAgDk9jEpChDFClDk5lEJCjDw8ljtKhT1GlDFCnDFK nEhNfUdMkVJThV5ijjk5pTlCnEJCnDFCpTlCpUJCpTlKoDlSpUJKnEJKpUJSnEpKnEpSnEpa 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post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Oct 2001 09:00:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ry7a-0003MU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2001 09:56:46 +0100 Received: from [204.202.140.198] (helo=gomailmta-bc.seamail.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ry7Z-0003MP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2001 09:56:45 +0100 Received: from gomailjtp05 ([10.212.0.165]) by mta06.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GL300GMI4SZ4L@mta06.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2001 01:55:47 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 01:55:48 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Sexton" Subject: Re: LF: QRPP TX To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <6740906.1002876948866.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Walter, Ko, Steve, Dave, The mystery deepens. Some initial confusion about whether it was Walter's test signal, but now we know it was not, I shall monitor 137.0 +/- over the next few days and try to catch a picture. Signal strength and direction (I have two loops) should give us an idea of the source. Ko's picture did not quite look like what I saw, which showed a frequency rising rapidly on keying to an unsteady level. The gaps were irregular and too short. 73, John, G4CNN -----Original Message----- From: "Walter Blanchard" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu Oct 11 14:06:07 PDT 2001 Subject: LF: QRPP TX >At 21:24 11/10/01 Thursday, you wrote:>>Hi Walter. >>Guess my earlier posting is solved by now, i hope. >> ur still -52.8dB on Spectran :-) >>73 Ko, NL9222 > >Sorry, no. Have never been on 137.7 or sent anything like ur Spectran shot. >Haven't been on air since 1730 UTC. >Wasn't me John CNN heard either. TF 2008 only has very slow drift maybe 1 >Hz/2 hrs. And time doesn't match. >Am monitoring signal via MB7LF and (mainly) Spectran so see immediately if >anyone comes up. I even listen occasionally. >Have had to shift freq several times to avoid other stns obviously (and >understandably!) not hearing me. >This relay is excellent for setting up >Spectran/Speclab/Hamscope/Spectrogram/Easygram constants. >And nice to fiddle with Tx and confirm results straight away. >To get relayed frequency from MB7LF spot on set 2m receiver to 144.986.115 USB. >Walter G3JKV. > > > ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24820 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2001 08:53:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Oct 2001 08:53:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15581 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2001 08:50:59 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Oct 2001 08:50:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rxxS-0003D3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2001 09:46:18 +0100 Received: from [204.202.140.198] (helo=gomailmta-bc.seamail.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rxxR-0003Cy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2001 09:46:17 +0100 Received: from gomailjtp05 ([10.212.0.165]) by mta06.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GL300GCG4AP5T@mta06.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2001 01:44:49 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 01:44:51 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Sexton" Subject: Re: LF: ZL6QH & access to 136 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <6759669.1002876291241.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Great news Bob! Presumably the 5 watts you mention is the upper limit permitted? If we, in Europe, can get directional antennas pointed in the right direction, we can almost certainly manage at least a one-way this winter. Please keep us in the picture re schedules, so that we can be listening/watching at the right time. 73, John, G4CNN -----Original Message----- From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu Oct 11 15:13:03 PDT 2001 Subject: LF: ZL6QH & access to 136 >Hi all,> >The ZL6QH low frequency permit now allows access to the 135.7 - 137.8 kHz >band. We need to sort out loading coil arrangements but I would expect >there to be some 5 watt radiated power transmissions made over the northern >hemisphere winter. > >73, Bob ZL2CA > > > ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8034 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2001 07:39:27 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Oct 2001 07:39:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11853 invoked from network); 12 Oct 2001 07:37:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Oct 2001 07:37:13 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rwkC-0002SU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2001 08:28:32 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rwkA-0002SP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2001 08:28:31 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA1418356 for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2001 09:27:48 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20011012082606.2bd782c6@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 08:26:06 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: ZL6QH & access to 136 In-reply-to: <002e01c152a2$06167840$83b21bca@rvernall> References: <142546.1002823723902.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> <3BC6125A.10DE0618@alg.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Aha, a new challenge ... Congrats for getting the 136kHz licence and I hope you will be able to make it to VE7 or even to Europe within the next months. 73, Rik ON7YD At 11:13 12/10/01 +1300, you wrote: >Hi all, > >The ZL6QH low frequency permit now allows access to the 135.7 - 137.8 kHz >band. We need to sort out loading coil arrangements but I would expect >there to be some 5 watt radiated power transmissions made over the northern >hemisphere winter. > >73, Bob ZL2CA > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15659 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 23:49:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 23:49:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 29522 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 23:46:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 23:46:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rpSr-0006ax-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2001 00:42:09 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rpSq-0006as-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2001 00:42:08 +0100 Received: from [62.7.33.69] (helo=default) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15rpSB-00037P-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 12 Oct 2001 00:41:28 +0100 Message-ID: <003401c152ad$a7a7dae0$264d073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Propagation Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 00:37:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all the following from Spaceweather.com ---------------------------------------- Space Weather News for October 11, 2001 http://www.spaceweather.com A solar wind shock wave, spawned by a coronal mass ejection (CME) that left the Sun on October 9th, swept past Earth today between 1630 and 1700 UT (12:30 and 1:00 pm EDT). Sky watchers, especially those living above geomagnetic latitude 50 degrees, should watch for Northern Lights after sunset. (The best time to spot auroras is usually around local midnight.) The interplanetary magnetic field (IMF) near Earth turned sharply south as the CME disturbance passed our planet. South-pointing IMFs often intensify geomagnetic activity, which makes this event a promising one to watch. Visit spaceweather.com for details and updates. -------------------------------------------------------- The result shows as a Kp of 5 for 6 hours (1500 -2100z) today (Thursday), this should not be too long lived and will probably not show its RF effects before Saturday night. Maybe it will enhace daytime levels for the HF Convention station during the daytime Sunday. So if you dont work them on Saturday, then Sunday might be better. It should be in evidence depressing levels by Sunday night. Cheers de Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21373 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 22:34:21 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 22:34:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 12700 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 22:32:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 22:32:03 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15roFD-0005f6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 23:23:59 +0100 Received: from mail7.wlv.netzero.net ([209.247.163.57]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15roFC-0005f1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 23:23:58 +0100 Received: (qmail 1728 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 22:23:11 -0000 Received: from dialup-63.214.117.145.dial1.boston1.level3.net (HELO lazzo) (63.214.117.145) by mail7.wlv.netzero.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 22:23:11 -0000 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20011011173540.0110b6e8@pop.netzero.net> X-Sender: w1jhj@pop.netzero.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 17:35:40 -0400 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Jonathan Jesse" Subject: Re: LF: Re 73KHz beacon In-reply-to: <001701c15284$018775e0$6530893e@g3aqc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=us-ascii Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender:
Listened/watched last night with no copy. CONDX didn't appear to be favorable, weak Eu LW broadcast stations, weak DCF77 & 39.
Will look again tonight.
Note to John A.: Is it the MSK station that's bugging you a few KC up?

Thanks Laurie,
Jon W1JHJ




At 07:38 PM 10/11/01 +0100, you wrote:
>>>>
Hi All,
Will beacon again tonight same frequency and time. 73s Laurie.

<<<<


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From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2897 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 22:24:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 22:24:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 13110 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 22:22:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 22:22:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ro6a-0005eD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 23:15:04 +0100 Received: from mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.132]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ro6Y-0005e8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 23:15:03 +0100 Received: from rvernall ([202.27.181.185]) by mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20011011221349.KKRJ15184.mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@rvernall> for ; Fri, 12 Oct 2001 11:13:49 +1300 Message-ID: <002e01c152a2$06167840$83b21bca@rvernall> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <142546.1002823723902.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> <3BC6125A.10DE0618@alg.demon.co.uk> Subject: LF: ZL6QH & access to 136 Date: Fri, 12 Oct 2001 11:13:03 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, The ZL6QH low frequency permit now allows access to the 135.7 - 137.8 kHz band. We need to sort out loading coil arrangements but I would expect there to be some 5 watt radiated power transmissions made over the northern hemisphere winter. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14859 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 21:41:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 21:41:00 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24690 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 21:38:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 21:38:41 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rnUU-0005CM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 22:35:42 +0100 Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rnUT-0005CH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 22:35:41 +0100 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15rnTp-000DOn-0C for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 21:35:01 +0000 Message-ID: <3BC6125A.10DE0618@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 22:42:50 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Random letters on 137 kHz References: <142546.1002823723902.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John wrote: > By chance, I came across a very unsteady slow morse signal on about 137 > kHz around 17.50 UT apparently sending random letters. The frequency was > varying so much on Argo, that I wasn't sure whether this was genuine CW. > Didn't see a call sign, but perhaps didn't watch long enough. > My first thought was that it might be an illegal use of the band to send > coded messages. It might be better to send a repeating clear text message > especially in the present climate. I quite agree, John. If it was some wally running a modified audio amplifier, they may not even have a callsign! The random letter characteristic makes me think it probably was a pirate. Besides, any licensed amateur with a knowledge of 136 kHz would have been doing their TX testing below 136.0. Never mind, there are enough of us around with directional antennas: we'll soon catch the bounder! Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11218 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 21:40:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 21:40:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 24682 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 21:38:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 21:38:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rnU6-0005CF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 22:35:18 +0100 Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.43]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rnU5-0005CA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 22:35:18 +0100 Received: from j.stace ([62.255.224.90]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20011011213437.WGAT23687.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@j.stace> for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 22:34:37 +0100 Message-ID: <003601c1529c$83f48320$5ae0ff3e@stace> From: "john.stace" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3BC49076.5AD44588@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: 73 khz Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 22:33:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3KEV de G3CCH Hello Mal / I would like to listen for you on 73 KhzI can transmit but only very qrp. How about tomorrow afternoon sometime (friday) , your choice of actual time , 73 John. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8518 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 21:23:01 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 21:23:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 7671 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 21:20:42 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 21:20:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rn3P-0004uQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 22:07:43 +0100 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rn3O-0004uL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 22:07:42 +0100 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (38.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.38]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f9BL73905154 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 22:07:03 +0100 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011011212703.00a952c0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 22:06:07 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: QRPP TX MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 21:24 11/10/01 Thursday, you wrote: >Hi Walter. >Guess my earlier posting is solved by now, i hope. > ur still -52.8dB on Spectran :-) >73 Ko, NL9222 Sorry, no. Have never been on 137.7 or sent anything like ur Spectran shot. Haven't been on air since 1730 UTC. Wasn't me John CNN heard either. TF 2008 only has very slow drift maybe 1 Hz/2 hrs. And time doesn't match. Am monitoring signal via MB7LF and (mainly) Spectran so see immediately if anyone comes up. I even listen occasionally. Have had to shift freq several times to avoid other stns obviously (and understandably!) not hearing me. This relay is excellent for setting up Spectran/Speclab/Hamscope/Spectrogram/Easygram constants. And nice to fiddle with Tx and confirm results straight away. To get relayed frequency from MB7LF spot on set 2m receiver to 144.986.115 USB. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17676 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 19:31:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 19:31:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29072 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 19:29:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 19:29:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rlS6-0003uL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 20:25:06 +0100 Received: from smtp0.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.193.6] helo=smtp.wanadoo.nl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rlS5-0003uG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 20:25:05 +0100 Received: from nl9222 (p127.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.200.91]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f9BJONo16249 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 21:24:24 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <200110111924.f9BJONo16249@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 21:24:26 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: Re: LF: Re: GB3LF X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 10/11/01 6:43:00 PM, you wrote: >At 17:06 11/10/01 Thursday, you wrote: > >>I don't know if this is the same transmitter, but I have been copying >>G3JKV all >>afternoon on 136.4 at rst 569, sending nothing but random letters with the >>occasional >>callsign, and not apparantly listening. G3KEV was calling CQ on top at >>one point. >>73s Dave G3YMC > >Sri, Dave, putting out test for Derek to check MB7LF. Yes, same one. 100 mW >out; 60 mA antenna current, maybe 300 microwatts erp. But I WAS listening >- just thought it wouldn't get out far enough for anyone to be interested. >Now on 137.000 exactly. >Walter G3JKV. Hi Walter. Guess my earlier posting is solved by now, i hope. ur still -52.8dB on Spectran :-) 73 Ko, NL9222 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17395 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 18:42:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 18:42:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 20529 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 18:40:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 18:40:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rkgp-0003SI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 19:36:15 +0100 Received: from cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.174]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rkgo-0003SD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 19:36:14 +0100 Received: from modem-101.pearl-scale-butterfly.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.48.101] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15rkg9-0002Qo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 19:35:34 +0100 Message-ID: <001701c15284$018775e0$6530893e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re 73KHz beacon Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 19:38:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi All,
Will beacon again tonight same frequency and time.  73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2090 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 18:42:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 18:42:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 20329 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 18:40:22 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 18:40:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rkfU-0003S1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 19:34:52 +0100 Received: from smtp0.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.193.6] helo=smtp.wanadoo.nl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rkfS-0003Rv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 19:34:51 +0100 Received: from nl9222 (p209.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.200.137]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f9BIY1o04986 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 20:34:01 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <200110111834.f9BIY1o04986@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 20:34:4 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Ridlle X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] X-FoxAttach: C:\My Documents\whowasit.jpg MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------030704080509070503020800" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030704080509070503020800 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear Lf group. I am receiving the same signals around 137700 for 2 nights, Can't make a thing [Callsign] from y & t's sequences.. Using PSP does not clear up this one and perhaps this signal was not ment for reading [by humans] but would like to know who, or what it was.. 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1R+yxoEEdVqXMP2uM19lW0dQgReNNELTQP8A7lMW3WnEAorwEqM2NuuogFlwoIKi4hV8O0su N9azcaiIbuXqKWoeNL+wDJNXBbC2wnVbh7K74S/crBnRmJAnSAgBosCvEwfcMy4Rw4DDYATf D/u0VWq5wQ1DvCpfqImSmcrjAqrqQlOHCWP2JQuG1tfYjtwLgEzHa7CNVB8+NFolZ4RVdEkJ RGqOO96SxpfdyTY1ql0c64KTcurNatCsmBEL0qZEFqoWHEWvIquzYOi5chi2x3ORU//Z --------------030704080509070503020800-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19287 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 18:16:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 18:16:00 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4688 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 18:13:47 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 18:13:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rkHU-0003Ar-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 19:10:04 +0100 Received: from [204.202.140.199] (helo=gomailmta-bc.seamail.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rkHT-0003AO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 19:10:03 +0100 Received: from gomailjtp05 ([10.212.0.165]) by mta07.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GL1006JIZQHE0@mta07.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 11:08:42 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 11:08:43 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Sexton" Subject: LF: Re: Random letters on 137 kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <142546.1002823723902.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp05> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Dave, By chance, I came across a very unsteady slow morse signal on about 137 kHz around 17.50 UT apparently sending random letters. The frequency was varying so much on Argo, that I wasn't sure whether this was genuine CW. Didn't see a call sign, but perhaps didn't watch long enough. My first thought was that it might be an illegal use of the band to send coded messages. It might be better to send a repeating clear text message especially in the present climate. 73, John, G4CNN -----Original Message----- From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Date: Thu Oct 11 09:06:56 PDT 2001 Subject: LF: Re: GB3LF >Walter Blanchard wrote:>>I put my Marconi TF2008 sig. gen onto 137.5 kHz and fed a measured 100 >>milliwatts RF into my inverted-L antenna. GB3LF "heard" it and relayed it >>back to me; clearly visible on Spectran but only just audible > >I don't know if this is the same transmitter, but I have been copying G3JKV all >afternoon on 136.4 at rst 569, sending nothing but random letters with the occasional >callsign, and not apparantly listening. G3KEV was calling CQ on top at one point. > >Low power goes a long way! > >I can detect no trace of MB7LF on 144.9976 using my collinear however, maybe not a >good sign for the weekend. > >73s Dave G3YMC >dsergeant@iee.org >dsergeant@btinternet.com >http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk > > > > ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25922 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 17:49:47 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 17:49:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17376 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 17:47:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 17:47:35 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rjsR-0002zN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 18:44:11 +0100 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rjsQ-0002zI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 18:44:11 +0100 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (70.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.70]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f9BHhV204856 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 18:43:31 +0100 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011011183850.00a3b650@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 18:43:25 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: Re: LF: Re: GB3LF In-reply-to: <008001c1526e$e486bc40$315c073e@dave> References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011010203334.00a2f7e0@mail.pncl.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 17:06 11/10/01 Thursday, you wrote: >I don't know if this is the same transmitter, but I have been copying >G3JKV all >afternoon on 136.4 at rst 569, sending nothing but random letters with the >occasional >callsign, and not apparantly listening. G3KEV was calling CQ on top at >one point. >73s Dave G3YMC Sri, Dave, putting out test for Derek to check MB7LF. Yes, same one. 100 mW out; 60 mA antenna current, maybe 300 microwatts erp. But I WAS listening - just thought it wouldn't get out far enough for anyone to be interested. Now on 137.000 exactly. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18286 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 17:41:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 17:41:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23648 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 17:39:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 17:39:26 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rjjl-0002pz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 18:35:13 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rjjk-0002pu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 18:35:12 +0100 Received: from ldsas01-65-116-81.cw-visp.com ([212.137.116.81] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15rjaC-0004om-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 17:25:20 +0000 Message-ID: <3BC49076.5AD44588@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 19:16:22 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: 73 khz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Is it worth putting out a signal on 73 khz at present since the band activity seems to be nil. If anyone interested let me know. de Mal/G3KEV/SCARBOROUGH From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8964 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 17:41:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 17:41:38 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 12408 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 17:39:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 17:39:25 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rjjq-0002q6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 18:35:18 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rjjp-0002q1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 18:35:17 +0100 Received: from ldsas01-65-116-81.cw-visp.com ([212.137.116.81] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15rjaJ-0004ox-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 17:25:29 +0000 Message-ID: <3BC5C9DC.AA5E0EB7@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 17:33:33 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: litz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I had several connections to make today using 729 strand litz wire and it took me no longer than 10 minutes to prepare and solder the ends. Using the technique that I described before on here. Spread the ends out, dip in paint stripper for a few minutes, then brush off the disolved enamel with a tooth brush, wipe and clean with white spirit, then twist the wire to get it back to its original diameter and solder. The perfect connection, patent applied for, it seems no one that I have spoken ever thought of the idea. Most professionals follow the clumsy time consuming solder pot procedure and radio amateurs dont have a clue how to handle litz. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2623 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 17:32:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 17:32:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 6091 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 17:30:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 17:30:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rjbO-0002ok-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 18:26:34 +0100 Received: from ligarius-fe0.ultra.net ([146.115.8.189]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rjbN-0002of-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 18:26:33 +0100 Received: from comrex (d74.dial-2.cmb.ma.ultra.net [209.6.65.74]) by ligarius-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n26500/mtc.v2) with SMTP id NAA15556 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 13:25:51 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005801c1527b$daafe4a0$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000c01c151a7$288cf800$c49c883e@g3aqc> <001a01c15257$6ffa6dc0$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> <001601c15274$e41bddc0$4925893e@g3aqc> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: Re 73KHz Beacon Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 13:40:14 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Laurie, > John thanks for listening, which way should I move to clear your interfering > signal? 73s Laurie. You can't move far enough! There is a signal within my receiver's 500 Hz passband that is pumping the AGC. I need to do some experimenting and identifiying to see what's going on. Last night, I just dialed up the frequency, tuned the loop, started ARGO, and went out to a meeting. More research is needed! John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13598 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 16:56:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 16:56:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 9886 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 16:54:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 16:54:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rj07-0002N2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 17:48:03 +0100 Received: from cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.171]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rj06-0002Mx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 17:48:02 +0100 Received: from modem-82.arathorn.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.121.210] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15rizS-000504-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 17:47:22 +0100 Message-ID: <001601c15274$e41bddc0$4925893e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000c01c151a7$288cf800$c49c883e@g3aqc> <001a01c15257$6ffa6dc0$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re 73KHz Beacon Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 17:50:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John thanks for listening, which way should I move to clear your interfering signal? 73s Laurie. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Andrews" To: Sent: Thursday, October 11, 2001 2:19 PM Subject: LF: Re: Re 73KHz Beacon > Laurie, > > Listened for 2 hours starting at 2300, but no luck. This frequency is right > on the edge of another signal that's driving my receiver crazy. I think it's > time to spring for the 250 Hz filter. You've provided a good excuse to pry > open my wallet! > > John Andrews, W1TAG > > > > >Sunspot No's are low at the moment so I will Beacon tonight > >Frequency 71,921.5KHz DFCW 60 sec. dot length. Starting 2300 utc > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 698 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 16:27:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 16:27:48 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 12608 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 16:25:30 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 16:25:30 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15riW9-00024O-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 17:17:05 +0100 Received: from asterix.tee.gr ([212.70.193.140]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15riW6-00024G-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 17:17:03 +0100 Received: from teeserver.tee.gr (teeserver.tee.gr [212.70.193.130]) by asterix.tee.gr (8.11.6/8.11.6) with ESMTP id f9BGFlL03536 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 19:15:47 +0300 Received: from s9o9f0.eexi.gr ([212.70.200.149]) by teeserver.tee.gr (Netscape Messaging Server 4.1) with ESMTP id GL1ULM00.T5X; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 19:17:46 +0300 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20011011190816.00a6f010@aurora.eexi.gr> X-Sender: sv1xv@aurora.eexi.gr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 19:11:17 +0300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Costas Krallis SV1XV" Subject: Re: LF: SV on 136kHz ? Cc: sv8qg@otenet.gr In-reply-to: <3.0.1.16.20011011155552.310f409e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <001801c151bc$1a24b7c0$fa4201d5@j1r9b7> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 15:55 11/10/2001 +0000, Rick ON7YD wrote: >Just got this from the OH2AQ DX-cluster : > >SV1HE 136.2 SV1BKE CW wkg sv1mf 0614 08 Oct >SV1HE 136.2 SV1MF CW clg CQ CQ 0612 08 Oct > >73, Rik ON7YD Rick, I just talked with SV1HE on 145275 and he told me that he did not post the DX spot and he does not use the DX cluster. Possibly a hoax or a mistake... Costas SV1XV +------------------------------------------------------------+ | Costas Krallis SV1XV * LOC KM18UA | | P.O.Box 3066 * E-Mail: sv1xv@eexi.gr | | GR-10210 Athens * PGP key: 0x3BDBBC34 | | GREECE * http://www.qsl.net/sv1xv/ | | * http://w4u.eexi.gr/~sv1xv/ | +------------------------------------------------------------+ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14039 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 16:16:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 16:16:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 1285 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 16:14:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 16:14:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15riNI-0001vG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 17:07:56 +0100 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15riNH-0001vB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 17:07:56 +0100 Received: from [62.7.92.49] (helo=dave) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15riMb-00041w-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 17:07:13 +0100 Message-ID: <008001c1526e$e486bc40$315c073e@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011010203334.00a2f7e0@mail.pncl.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: GB3LF Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 17:06:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Walter Blanchard wrote: >I put my Marconi TF2008 sig. gen onto 137.5 kHz and fed a measured 100 >milliwatts RF into my inverted-L antenna. GB3LF "heard" it and relayed it >back to me; clearly visible on Spectran but only just audible I don't know if this is the same transmitter, but I have been copying G3JKV all afternoon on 136.4 at rst 569, sending nothing but random letters with the occasional callsign, and not apparantly listening. G3KEV was calling CQ on top at one point. Low power goes a long way! I can detect no trace of MB7LF on 144.9976 using my collinear however, maybe not a good sign for the weekend. 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27769 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 15:08:02 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 15:08:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11337 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 15:05:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 15:05:48 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rhHr-0001A9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 15:58:15 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rhHq-0001A4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 15:58:14 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA1221662 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 16:57:33 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20011011155552.310f409e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 15:55:52 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: SV on 136kHz ? In-reply-to: <001801c151bc$1a24b7c0$fa4201d5@j1r9b7> References: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Just got this from the OH2AQ DX-cluster : SV1HE 136.2 SV1BKE CW wkg sv1mf 0614 08 Oct SV1HE 136.2 SV1MF CW clg CQ CQ 0612 08 Oct 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2429 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 13:20:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 13:20:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 627 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 13:18:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 13:18:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rfX9-00007P-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 14:05:55 +0100 Received: from ligarius-fe0.ultra.net ([146.115.8.189]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rfX5-00007H-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 14:05:51 +0100 Received: from comrex (d74.dial-2.cmb.ma.ultra.net [209.6.65.74]) by ligarius-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n26500/mtc.v2) with SMTP id JAA23977 for ; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 09:05:08 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001a01c15257$6ffa6dc0$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000c01c151a7$288cf800$c49c883e@g3aqc> Subject: LF: Re: Re 73KHz Beacon Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 09:19:32 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Laurie, Listened for 2 hours starting at 2300, but no luck. This frequency is right on the edge of another signal that's driving my receiver crazy. I think it's time to spring for the 250 Hz filter. You've provided a good excuse to pry open my wallet! John Andrews, W1TAG >Sunspot No's are low at the moment so I will Beacon tonight >Frequency 71,921.5KHz DFCW 60 sec. dot length. Starting 2300 utc From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24224 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 00:20:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 00:20:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 275 invoked from network); 11 Oct 2001 00:18:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Oct 2001 00:18:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rTT0-0001Cy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 01:12:50 +0100 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rTSz-0001Ct-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 01:12:49 +0100 Received: from [62.7.123.25] (helo=j1r9b7) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15rTRy-0005yO-00; Thu, 11 Oct 2001 01:11:47 +0100 Message-ID: <002601c151e7$a0c45080$197b073e@j1r9b7> From: "Derek Atter" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: "Stuart Bryant" References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011010203334.00a2f7e0@mail.pncl.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: GB3LF Date: Thu, 11 Oct 2001 00:56:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks to all those who posted initial comments on the reflector re MB7LF. It will actually be Stewart G3YSX who will be presenting the short paper at Windsor on Saturday 13th October with some recordings etc.and who was heavily involved in submitting the application and assembling the hardware. I shall be attending on Friday afternoon with Lech G3KAU to install a 2m antenna for a demonstration on Saturday (hopefully !!) and of course again on Saturday. - Looking forward to meeting old friends in the LF group for an "eyeball" and natter again. Vy 73 de Derek Atter G3GRO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Blanchard" To: Sent: Wednesday, October 10, 2001 8:52 PM Subject: LF: GB3LF > Thanks to excellent work by Derek G3GRO the GB3LF repeater is now on the > air from Crawley on 144.9875 MHz. It's relaying the entire 136 kHz band as > an upper-sideband signal. The 136 antenna is Derek's Loran-cancelling loop > and active vertical combo. > I put my Marconi TF2008 sig. gen onto 137.5 kHz and fed a measured 100 > milliwatts RF into my inverted-L antenna. GB3LF "heard" it and relayed it > back to me; clearly visible on Spectran but only just audible. Estimated > antenna eff. is .03% so erp was about 300 MICROwatts. Distance is about 11 > miles/17.6 kms. > Derek will be describing his repeater on Saturday at the LF, sorry, HF, > convention. > > Walter G3JKV. > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7500 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2001 21:06:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Oct 2001 21:06:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 7982 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2001 21:04:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 10 Oct 2001 21:04:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rQRG-0007lZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 21:58:50 +0100 Received: from tomts12.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.56] helo=tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rQRF-0007lT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 21:58:49 +0100 Received: from server1 ([209.226.189.28]) by tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20011010205734.IUOG10438.tomts12-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 16:57:34 -0400 Message-ID: <005c01c151ce$2dc606f0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011010203334.00a2f7e0@mail.pncl.co.uk> Subject: LF: Linear relay of LF Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 16:57:28 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Gentlemen: > Thanks to excellent work by Derek G3GRO the GB3LF repeater is now on the > air from Crawley on 144.9875 MHz. It's relaying the entire 136 kHz band as > an upper-sideband signal. This is just wonderful. I did this, 20M to 424 MHz many years ago, left the thing running for over 6 years before it died. It is a wonderful way to get access to a desirable receiving site. I hope you get to enjoy this as much as I did. Last year, as I was just telling Laurie in another email, I back hauled the 136 audio from my receiver over my 443 MHz fm link, some of the jpgs Laurie will have for your LF, rather HF convention next weekend, I bet you can not tell the difference between them. I hope this goes well for those who will have access to it. Larry VA3LK PS I know how very difficult this is for you to do things like this with your regulatory environment, I was lucky I just did it and no one asked any questions. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15285 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2001 19:58:55 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Oct 2001 19:58:55 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16522 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2001 19:56:35 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Oct 2001 19:56:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rPNz-00073H-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 20:51:23 +0100 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rPNy-00073C-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 20:51:22 +0100 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (72.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.72]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f9AJogd12554 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 20:50:42 +0100 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011010205609.00a8ccd0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 20:57:41 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: MB7LF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: MB7LF not GB3LF. Too used to mobile operation I guess! Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9780 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2001 19:53:31 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Oct 2001 19:53:31 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10278 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2001 19:51:13 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Oct 2001 19:51:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rPJE-00072h-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 20:46:28 +0100 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rPJC-00072c-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 20:46:27 +0100 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (72.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.72]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f9AJjlB11999 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 20:45:47 +0100 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011010203334.00a2f7e0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 20:52:16 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: GB3LF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks to excellent work by Derek G3GRO the GB3LF repeater is now on the air from Crawley on 144.9875 MHz. It's relaying the entire 136 kHz band as an upper-sideband signal. The 136 antenna is Derek's Loran-cancelling loop and active vertical combo. I put my Marconi TF2008 sig. gen onto 137.5 kHz and fed a measured 100 milliwatts RF into my inverted-L antenna. GB3LF "heard" it and relayed it back to me; clearly visible on Spectran but only just audible. Estimated antenna eff. is .03% so erp was about 300 MICROwatts. Distance is about 11 miles/17.6 kms. Derek will be describing his repeater on Saturday at the LF, sorry, HF, convention. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10714 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2001 19:32:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Oct 2001 19:32:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 15159 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2001 19:30:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Oct 2001 19:30:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rOyn-0006ln-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 20:25:21 +0100 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rOym-0006li-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 20:25:20 +0100 Received: from [213.122.50.203] (helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15rNkK-0002iW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 19:06:20 +0100 Message-ID: <000501c151be$a6a8c900$cb327ad5@default> From: "Fred Rattray" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <004a01c1516e$1b565660$0700000a@parissn2> Subject: LF: Re: [off topic] Don't open virus from "hahaha" Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 16:13:37 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks for the warning. Fred G4SPR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stewart Nelson" To: Sent: 10 October 2001 09:29 Subject: LF: [off topic] Don't open virus from "hahaha" > Sorry for the off topic post. > See http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w95.hybris.gen.html > > --Stewart > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14081 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2001 19:09:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Oct 2001 19:09:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 12967 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2001 19:07:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Oct 2001 19:07:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rOb7-0006bJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 20:00:53 +0100 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rOb4-0006bE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 20:00:50 +0100 Received: from [213.1.66.250] (helo=j1r9b7) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15rOaM-0001DH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 20:00:06 +0100 Message-ID: <001801c151bc$1a24b7c0$fa4201d5@j1r9b7> From: "Derek Atter" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: MB7LF Remote LF relay from 136kHz Operational Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 19:45:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------040406040405070800000809" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040406040405070800000809 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit >From G3GRO/G3YSX Initial tests have begun to relay the whole of the 136kHz band from a remote receiving site located at IO91VC as an experiment. The relayed output will be initially on 144.9876Mhz USB. See the attachment for more details. The licence for MB7LF has recently been issued by the Radio Authority via the RSGB to G3YSY/G3GRO, the station being sited at the Crawley Clubhouse in Tilgate forest. --------------040406040405070800000809 Content-Type: application/msword; name="MB7LF 02.doc" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="MB7LF 02.doc" 0M8R4KGxGuEAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAPgADAP7/CQAGAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAKQAAAAAA AAAAEAAAKwAAAAEAAAD+////AAAAACgAAAD///////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 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////////////////UgBvAG8AdAAgAEUAbgB0AHIAeQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABYABQH//////////wMAAAAGCQIAAAAAAMAAAAAAAABG AAAAAGArE0i5UcEBQMhUSLlRwQEsAAAAgAAAAAAAAAAxAFQAYQBiAGwAZQAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAADgACAf////8FAAAA /////wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAABAAAAAAEAAAAAAAAFcA bwByAGQARABvAGMAdQBtAGUAbgB0AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAaAAIBAQAAAP//////////AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAB4eAAAAAAAABQBTAHUAbQBtAGEAcgB5AEkAbgBmAG8AcgBtAGEAdABpAG8A bgAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACgAAgECAAAABAAAAP////8AAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAYAAAAABAAAAAAAAAFAEQAbwBjAHUAbQBlAG4A dABTAHUAbQBtAGEAcgB5AEkAbgBmAG8AcgBtAGEAdABpAG8AbgAAAAAAAAAAAAAAOAACAf// /////////////wAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACAAAAAAEAAA AAAAAAEAQwBvAG0AcABPAGIAagAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA 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//////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// ////////////////////////////////////////////////AQD+/wMKAAD/////BgkCAAAA AADAAAAAAAAARhgAAABNaWNyb3NvZnQgV29yZCBEb2N1bWVudAAKAAAATVNXb3JkRG9jABAA AABXb3JkLkRvY3VtZW50LjgA9DmycQAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAA= --------------040406040405070800000809-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18871 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2001 18:01:12 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Oct 2001 18:01:12 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9566 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2001 17:58:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Oct 2001 17:58:52 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rNUo-0005tC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 18:50:18 +0100 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rNUn-0005t7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 18:50:17 +0100 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (73.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.73]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f9AHnaB29461 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 18:49:36 +0100 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011010184714.00a7c0b0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 18:53:51 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: Re: LF: Power Supply In-reply-to: References: <11c.5a02dde.28f430d0@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 08:12 10/10/01 Wednesday, G3OLB wrote: >I recently opted for the 'Palstar PS-50' from Nevada which is a linear >PSU giving 40 amps continuous, 50 amps intermittent, at 13.8V. It is big >and heavy but economically priced and no noise. At least, there is no >electrical noise but a slight audible hum from the transformer - >something which you need to consider with a linear supply; a buzzing PSU >can drive you nuts! One with a toroidal transformer should be quieter >than one with a laminated one. Tom, I also have one and it's fine until it gets a little hot and the fan cuts in. Then it sounds like a jet taking off. I played with it quite a bit and eventually found that the best way round it was to rewire so the fan runs all the time on a reduced voltage just barely enough to start it and run - about 9volts. That creates enough draught that the heatsink never gets much more than warm and the fan never needs to run at full power. Howver, I left the heat sensor connected so if it gets really hot it a relay switches it onto full 28v, but that has never happened yet even at 25A continuous. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24324 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2001 16:31:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Oct 2001 16:31:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 25958 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2001 16:28:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Oct 2001 16:28:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rM11-00051R-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 17:15:27 +0100 Received: from cmailg2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.172]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rM0y-00051M-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 17:15:24 +0100 Received: from modem-68.dorlas.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.156.196] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15rM0I-0001gG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 17:14:42 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c151a7$288cf800$c49c883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re 73KHz Beacon Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 17:17:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Sunspot No's are low at the moment so I will Beacon tonight
Frequency 71,921.5KHz  DFCW  60 sec. dot length. Starting 2300 utc.  73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3455 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2001 10:07:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Oct 2001 10:07:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 17572 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2001 10:05:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Oct 2001 10:05:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rGA8-0000pO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 11:00:28 +0100 Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.42]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rGA7-0000pJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 11:00:27 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([62.255.216.145]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20011010095946.EGOS29790.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 10:59:46 +0100 Message-ID: <001101c15169$d9c0ed40$91d8ff3e@oemcomputer> From: "peter.jackson17" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <004a01c1516e$1b565660$0700000a@parissn2> Subject: LF: Re: [off topic] Don't open virus from "hahaha" Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 09:59:19 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.3018.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Yes I got that one this morning Norton picked it up, Pete G3KNU ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stewart Nelson" To: Sent: 10 October 2001 10:29 Subject: LF: [off topic] Don't open virus from "hahaha" > Sorry for the off topic post. > See http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w95.hybris.gen.html > > --Stewart > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24132 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2001 09:35:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Oct 2001 09:35:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 1723 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2001 09:35:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 10 Oct 2001 09:35:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rFgz-0000SQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 10:30:21 +0100 Received: from cobalt4.source.net ([206.100.10.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rFgy-0000SA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 10:30:20 +0100 Received: from parissn2 (AMontsouris-101-1-3-195.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.252.108.195]) by cobalt4.source.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA21147 for ; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 02:29:30 -0700 Message-ID: <004a01c1516e$1b565660$0700000a@parissn2> From: "Stewart Nelson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: [off topic] Don't open virus from "hahaha" Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 11:29:46 +0200 Organization: SC Group MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Sorry for the off topic post. See http://www.symantec.com/avcenter/venc/data/w95.hybris.gen.html --Stewart From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26919 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2001 08:16:05 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Oct 2001 08:16:05 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4199 invoked from network); 10 Oct 2001 08:13:45 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Oct 2001 08:13:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rELT-0007tu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 09:04:03 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15rELP-0007tp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 09:03:59 +0100 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 15rEKj-000Mhc-0K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 10 Oct 2001 08:03:18 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 10 Oct 2001 08:12:49 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: Re: LF: Power Supply In-reply-to: <11c.5a02dde.28f430d0@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >In a message dated 10/8/01 5:22:14 PM GMT Daylight Time, >peter.jackson17@ntlworld.com writes: > > >> Hi, I am thinking of buying a new PSU, has anyone any experience with Switch >> Mode PSU's. Is there any sproggies on 137Kz? The PSU I am particularly >> interested in is the Diamond GZV-2500, any advice welcome. Still just a SWL >> on VLF but that could change soon, 73 Pete G3KNU >> Peter I recently opted for the 'Palstar PS-50' from Nevada which is a linear PSU giving 40 amps continuous, 50 amps intermittent, at 13.8V. It is big and heavy but economically priced and no noise. At least, there is no electrical noise but a slight audible hum from the transformer - something which you need to consider with a linear supply; a buzzing PSU can drive you nuts! One with a toroidal transformer should be quieter than one with a laminated one. 73, Tom G3OLB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7239 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2001 20:30:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Oct 2001 20:30:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 14474 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2001 20:27:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 9 Oct 2001 20:27:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15r3QK-0000YW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2001 21:24:20 +0100 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15r3QJ-0000YR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2001 21:24:20 +0100 Received: from [213.122.53.149] (helo=presario1920) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15r3Pf-0004xy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2001 21:23:40 +0100 From: "John W Gould" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: 136 kHz beacon : Request for Comments Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 21:30:45 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-reply-to: Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Claudio, I'm not sure if anyone else has mentioned it, but Region 1 IARU discussed the question of whether or not to encourage beacons on 136kHz at their Lillehammer Conference, 2000. It was agreed that as the band was so narrow, and because there were adequate out-of-band transmissions, that amateur beacons would not be encouraged. The only exception was short-term beacons for transmitter, aerial testing, etc. Hope that that helps. 73 John, G3WKL -----Original Message----- From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf Of Claudio Sent: Wednesday, October 03, 2001 23:15 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 136 kHz beacon : Request for Comments HI Lowfers. I have a chance to install a 136 kHz QRSS beacon in ARI Milano radio club (north Italy). Before to propose the project to radio club I ask LF peaple for some comments: 1 - This beacon may be useful? 2 - If yes, what frequency may be preferred? 3 - The choice to start beacon at sunset and stop it at sunrise may be a good choice? All other comments and suggestions are well accepted. 73 de Claudio ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Claudio Pozzi http://www.qsl.net/ik2pii happy Linux user E-Mail: Claudio Date: 04-Oct-01 Time: 00:05:46 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12091 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2001 19:48:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Oct 2001 19:48:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 20657 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2001 19:46:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Oct 2001 19:46:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15r2l4-0000Eq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2001 20:41:42 +0100 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15r2l4-0000El-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2001 20:41:42 +0100 Received: from [213.122.249.67] (helo=computer) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15r2kP-0006qK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2001 20:41:02 +0100 Message-ID: <008a01c150fc$1b487a80$43f97ad5@computer> From: "Martin M5CIX" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <11a.53e7013.28f46475@aol.com> Subject: LF: changing email address Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 20:53:36 +0100 Organization: M5CIX / G8CIX MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Having had to change my email because of the closure of NTLs dail up services, how do I update my deatils to this list?
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6203 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2001 19:30:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Oct 2001 19:30:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 2425 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2001 19:28:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 9 Oct 2001 19:28:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15r2LM-0008Ta-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2001 20:15:08 +0100 Received: from sproxy.gmx.de ([213.165.64.20] helo=mail.gmx.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15r2LL-0008TV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2001 20:15:07 +0100 Received: (qmail 5462 invoked by uid 0); 9 Oct 2001 19:13:56 -0000 Received: from b1c7d.pppool.de (HELO dr.nabe) (213.7.28.125) by mail.gmx.net (mp010-rz3) with SMTP; 9 Oct 2001 19:13:56 -0000 Message-ID: <001901c150f6$64235aa0$7d1c07d5@dr.nabe> From: "Reiner Nabe" To: "Reflektor" Subject: LF: on one ear deaf ? Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 21:10:07 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Dear Mal,
-on one ear Deaf? I`m surely not,but my antenna here is hi.Until now I used a shielded loop (DF3LP) as an rx -antenna,right now im testing the loop -ant as described by G3LDO. The`" on one ear deaf " problem remainded,but on the  other ear I`m able to listen well.In the meantime  I managed  to solve  the rx-problems here in the Frankfurt area.Therefore I can pick you up on ufb as well. Obviously I would prefer the ears  of Markus  -DF6NM-, but  this can`t managed  dispite  all efforts.  Right now I try to work  with an additional peamplf. at the ant but this does not work out vy well and EI0CF remains in the noise.
My challenge  is obviously to pick  up the quite stns  and since you don`´t belong  to them,the QSO´s become rare.
BTW,to test my range,I frequently call CQ CQ  and spot in the PR-Cluster that I am  on LF QRV. This way stns  from OH,SP,S5,F and many DL confirmed  my call.Surely it was a mistake to start my call with CQ since I don`t expect a resonse on the LF-QRG.It would  have been better the start the call with - Beacon - to avoid misunterstandings.
Well,dr Mal,there are no problems between us.
I wish you lot of success,especially many new dx countries. I personally will continue to reach UA,LY,ES and HA.
 
73 Reiner
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10879 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2001 19:03:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Oct 2001 19:03:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 10939 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2001 19:01:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 9 Oct 2001 19:01:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15r1zp-0008Bb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2001 19:52:53 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15r1zm-0008BW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2001 19:52:50 +0100 Received: from [217.35.39.109] (helo=dellboy) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15r1z7-0004vy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2001 19:52:10 +0100 Message-ID: <001f01c150f3$78f85460$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <11a.53e7013.28f46475@aol.com> Subject: LF: Re: Very small indoor LF TX antenna .... .. Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 19:51:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
It's a very beautiful flower Wolf, but painful to pick....
It reminds me of my 136k mobile experiments!

Dave G3YXM
Hi group,

I you want to see a phantastic miniature "LF TX antenna" with capacitive top loading at work,   look at :

http://www.qsl.net/dl4yhf/experim1.html

Nothing serios at all, it's more an "ion sprinkler gimmick" than a good antenna. But, no doubt, the smallest LF TX antenna seen so far ... and it produces a nice display in the dark.

73's Wolf DL4HF.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29697 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2001 14:41:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Oct 2001 14:41:52 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18269 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2001 14:39:33 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Oct 2001 14:39:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15qxwS-0005bU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2001 15:33:08 +0100 Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.102]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15qxwQ-0005bP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2001 15:33:06 +0100 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.7.) id l.11a.53e7013 (16783) for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2001 10:32:21 -0400 (EDT) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <11a.53e7013.28f46475@aol.com> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 10:32:21 EDT Subject: LF: Very small indoor LF TX antenna .... .. To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 10504 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi group,

I you want to see a phantastic miniature "LF TX antenna" with capacitive top loading at work,   look at :

http://www.qsl.net/dl4yhf/experim1.html

Nothing serios at all, it's more an "ion sprinkler gimmick" than a good antenna. But, no doubt, the smallest LF TX antenna seen so far ... and it produces a nice display in the dark.

73's Wolf DL4HF.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26000 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2001 11:31:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Oct 2001 11:31:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 8601 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2001 11:29:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Oct 2001 11:29:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15quzb-0003ic-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2001 12:24:11 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15quza-0003iX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2001 12:24:10 +0100 Received: from [213.123.27.34] (helo=dave) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15quyv-00025D-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2001 12:23:29 +0100 Message-ID: <000401c150b5$5d75fa00$221b7bd5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002501c1500c$402cec00$9edcff3e@oemcomputer> Subject: LF: Re: Power Supply Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 12:25:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC G3KNU wrote: Hi, I am thinking of buying a new PSU, has anyone any experience with Switch Mode PSU's. I am using a Farnell G24-15A, 24V 15A switcher, which is quite quiet after the addition of a couple of decoupling caps between the outputs and case. Another supply I was thinking of using was terrible on a noise basis. I think you really need to test any psu for noise before committing yourself, and it does seem that the more expensive models are better. For high power use (I am not limited by my psu!) a switcher is more or less imperative, and there clearly are some quiet models if you can find them. 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10443 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2001 11:01:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Oct 2001 11:01:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26123 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2001 10:59:43 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 9 Oct 2001 10:59:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15quVj-0003P3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2001 11:53:19 +0100 Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.36]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15quVh-0003Oy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2001 11:53:18 +0100 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.7.) id l.11c.5a02dde (3877) for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2001 06:52:01 -0400 (EDT) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <11c.5a02dde.28f430d0@aol.com> Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 06:52:00 EDT Subject: Re: LF: Power Supply To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 10505 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit In a message dated 10/8/01 5:22:14 PM GMT Daylight Time, peter.jackson17@ntlworld.com writes:


Hi, I am thinking of buying a new PSU, has anyone any experience with Switch
Mode PSU's. Is there any sproggies on 137Kz? The PSU I am particularly
interested in is the Diamond GZV-2500, any advice welcome. Still just a SWL
on VLF but that could change soon, 73 Pete G3KNU





Hello Pete.

I have the Kenwood SMPSU and that one seems OK on 136 and 73k.
Two other commercial lab supplies, one from 'Farnell' and another from Scandinavia, both have very high levels on 136k.
Maybe the latest amateur supplies work above 136k or possibly make use of quasi resonant topologies that would suppress RFI to some extent.

Anyway.....The Kenwood's OK.

David  G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23199 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2001 09:34:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Oct 2001 09:34:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 1256 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2001 09:33:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 9 Oct 2001 09:33:11 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15qt6i-0002Ve-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2001 10:23:24 +0100 Received: from jazzfm.netcomuk.co.uk ([194.42.248.66]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15qt6f-0002VZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2001 10:23:23 +0100 Received: from jazzfm.com [192.168.102.5] by jazzfm.netcomuk.co.uk [127.0.0.1] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.5.0.R) for ; Tue, 09 Oct 2001 10:22:28 +0100 Received: from JazzFM-Message_Server by jazzfm.com with Novell_GroupWise; Tue, 09 Oct 2001 10:21:28 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Tue, 09 Oct 2001 10:21:09 +0100 From: "Martin Charman" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Which effect is this? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: Martin@jazzfm.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I'd always assumed it was simply the receiving aerial being detuned by the bridge. I once retuned my 160m mobile aerial under a similar 'obstruction' and I could hear signals again. Just a thought. Cheers, Martin G4FKK >>> "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" 04 October 2001 18:16:10 >>> Hello LF group, I went to Holland recently, and listened to Deutschlandradio on 153 kHz. I have already noticed years ago that mediumwave and longwave signals are being attenuated or even completely faded out under bridges. Now, listening to that radio transmission not too far away from our 136 kHz band I asked myself some questions: From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27855 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2001 00:24:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Oct 2001 00:24:58 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9789 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2001 00:24:45 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 9 Oct 2001 00:24:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15qkeg-0005qO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2001 01:21:54 +0100 Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.98]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15qkef-0005qH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2001 01:21:53 +0100 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.7.) id l.f4.1077e066 (4357) for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 20:21:05 -0400 (EDT) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 20:21:04 EDT Subject: Re: LF: who was it ? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 72 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Uwe and group, 'twas me. Attempting to produce a readable call sign on Brian's automatic log in CT, I transmitted my call three times between 22:19 and 02:41 UT, using very slow DFCW (180s on, 60s off) on 135922.19 (dash) / ..920.49 Hz (dot) . Today's TA-slot graph revealed only partial success: though clearly visible, the signal was not steady enough to be decoded. Again, there seemed to be little correlation to the propagation peaks and troughs of DBF39. Uwe, thank you for your report. Your pic must be part of the first "F" in LSB, starting at 22:35 (yes, there is a slight misunderstanding between Windows, DCF77 and SpecLab regarding the conversion of daylight saving time...). Time for bed - 73 Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21818 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2001 00:21:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Oct 2001 00:21:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6965 invoked from network); 9 Oct 2001 00:21:14 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 9 Oct 2001 00:21:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15qkak-0005pd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2001 01:17:50 +0100 Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.35]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15qkaj-0005pY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 09 Oct 2001 01:17:49 +0100 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.7.) id l.71.13db3966 (4357); Mon, 8 Oct 2001 20:16:34 -0400 (EDT) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <71.13db3966.28f39be2@aol.com> Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 20:16:34 EDT Subject: Re: LF: More antenna results To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: markus.vester@siemens.com MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 72 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Jim, congrats on your great LF work! I was really impressed by your electro-mechanical VLF receiver concept, and now I'm very interested in your antenna measurements. I would be pleased to receive a copy of the data. > The usual statement seems to be that in the near field of the electric antenna, > the H field is proportionally smaller and the E field larger than in the far field - > ie E/H is greater than 120pi ohms. No and yes. In the reactive near-field of a small antenna, the magnitudes of both field components rise more steeply towards the source. For an electrical dipole, E ~ 1 / r^3 (= electrostatic dipole) and H ~ 1 / r^2 (corresponding to the Biot-Savart rule for a short length of current), with a common crossover to the 1/r far-field occuring at lambda/(2pi) . Formulas and graphs showing the field transition for Marconis and ground loops at 9 kHz can be found on Geri's www.qru.de/radiation.html. Regarding the "missing dB's" in the near field, I have also experienced that the effective height of a marconi antenna was typically only 50..75% of the physical height of its top load, even though the capacitance of the top exceeds that of the vertical part. As you found, the difference is more pronounced with low antennas, agreeing with the assumption of E-field shielding by trees and houses. To calibrate the radiation efficiency of my antenna, I have used relative measurements of received signal powers rather than transmitted field strength: First, I measure the induced voltage of a remote transmitter (DBF39) in a single-turn nonresonant loop of known area (32 cm diameter), and calculate the local magnetic fieldstrength. As H is hardly affected by near-field capacitive objects, E = H * 377ohm gives the undisturbed electric field DBF would have here without obstructions. The power density E * H times the aperture area of an ideal monopole 3/4 * (lambda / (4 pi))^2 is the available RX power one would expect from a lossless antenna. Then, measuring the actually received power as a fraction of that gives the antenna efficiency. Due to reciprocity, this is also the efficiency for transmitting (including nearfield losses), as long as there are no nonlinearities like ferrite-core hysteresis or corona losses. In my case, I found eta = 0.08%, i.e 100mW EMRP (or 183mW EDRP) from 125W TX power. 73 and best wishes Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4076 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 23:01:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 23:01:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 29928 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 23:01:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 23:01:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15qjKx-0004tt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 23:57:27 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15qjKw-0004to-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 23:57:26 +0100 Received: from [213.1.65.45] (helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15qjKG-0002OI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 23:56:44 +0100 Message-ID: <000001c1504b$eddf7ae0$2d4101d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: re power supply Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 19:57:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Peter, I would echo Bob's comments. They can be clean but you want to finish up looking for very very weak stations on LF, so any suspicion of noise is a no-no. It really all depends what the switching frequency is. At LF it is possible that it wont be in band on either band but may give you troubles higher up. Remember there is no real EMC spec below 1MHz, and most amateur equipment makers do not acknowledge any operation below 1800kHz.!! Despite their 'general coverage RX' , which is probably only meant for listening to the local news on MW. If the power supply is for LF use you will need to build one as no-one down here much runs from 12 volts. There is no disgrace in being an SWL as that is were you sort out a lot of the important problems, like can I hear things, even more important can I hear what other G's are working. I look forward to hearing your signals from another Long Wave listener, Alan G3NYK alan.melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21865 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 20:10:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 20:10:00 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22952 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 20:07:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 20:07:42 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15qgcW-0003J2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 21:03:24 +0100 Received: from mailout02.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.17] helo=mailout02.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15qgcV-0003Ix-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 21:03:23 +0100 Received: from fwd04.sul.t-online.de by mailout02.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 15qgbr-0003pF-02; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 22:02:43 +0200 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.157.30.168]) by fwd04.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 15qgbb-2BPUBsC; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 22:02:27 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: Re: LF: More antenna results X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 22:02:27 +0200 Message-ID: <15qgbb-2BPUBsC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz schrieb: .................. > If anyone would like to look at the data I have collected so far, I > have put it all together on on one spreadsheet, which I can E-mail > in Microsoft Excel, plain text, and various other formats. > Hi Jim, I wd like to have a look at the mentioned datas. any format. tks in adv. regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19189 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 20:08:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 20:08:40 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 7323 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 20:06:26 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 20:06:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15qgar-0003Ik-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 21:01:41 +0100 Received: from smtp0.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.193.6] helo=smtp.wanadoo.nl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15qgaq-0003If-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 21:01:40 +0100 Received: from nl9222 (p1166.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.203.147]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f98K0wo06901 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 22:00:58 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <200110082000.f98K0wo06901@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 22:0:59 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: G6RO QRP X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by smtp.wanadoo.nl id f98K0wo06901 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I understand that Ron also worked Dave MM0ALM (354 km) on Sunday, just beating his previous 'best QRP DX' (with Tom G3OLB - 349 km). Note that Ron managed to work three countries in one day! Not bad for 5 watts of RF. Ron is going to plug away at QRP CW for a few more days to see who else he can work. Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG Hi Steve, & Group Make that 482Km! Just to be sure i heard Ron Qrp once, i searched my log... 05-01-2001 19:28z 136.97 G6RO 539 working ON6ND 579 22-04-2001 09:05z 136.52 G6RO 549 working PA0BWL 599 07-10-2001 15:08z 136.50 G6RO 549 working MM0ALM 599 73 Ko Versteeg, NL9222 [SWL] [Grid: JO22KE - Lat: 52° 12' 15.0"N Long: 04° 51' 40.5"E] Home: http://home.wanadoo.nl/nl9222/index.htm ------------------------------------------------------------------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20790 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 19:58:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 19:58:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 14750 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 19:58:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 19:58:25 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15qgSO-000392-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 20:52:56 +0100 Received: from mailout05.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.82] helo=mailout05.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15qgSM-00038x-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 20:52:54 +0100 Received: from fwd06.sul.t-online.de by mailout05.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 15qgRh-00023p-09; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 21:52:13 +0200 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.157.50.44]) by fwd06.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 15qgRL-1Wo1RYC; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 21:51:51 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002501c1500c$402cec00$9edcff3e@oemcomputer> Subject: LF: who was it ? X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060702060800090802060008" Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 21:51:51 +0200 Message-ID: <15qgRL-1Wo1RYC@fwd06.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060702060800090802060008 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, last night I made a SpecLab-screenshot - enclosed. who was it? I went to bed at the end of the "G" in DFCW. regards Uwe/dj8wx --------------060702060800090802060008 Content-Type: image/gif; name="WATER5.GIF" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="WATER5.GIF" R0lGODdhagGGAPcAAAAAAAAAQAAAgAAA/wAgAAAgQAAggAAg/wBAAABAQABAgABA/wBgAABg QABggABg/wCAAACAQACAgACA/wCgAACgQACggACg/wDAAADAQADAgADA/wD/AAD/QAD/gAD/ /yAAACAAQCAAgCAA/yAgACAgQCAggCAg/yBAACBAQCBAgCBA/yBgACBgQCBggCBg/yCAACCA QCCAgCCA/yCgACCgQCCggCCg/yDAACDAQCDAgCDA/yD/ACD/QCD/gCD//0AAAEAAQEAAgEAA /0AgAEAgQEAggEAg/0BAAEBAQEBAgEBA/0BgAEBgQEBggEBg/0CAAECAQECAgECA/0CgAECg QECggECg/0DAAEDAQEDAgEDA/0D/AED/QED/gED//2AAAGAAQGAAgGAA/2AgAGAgQGAggGAg /2BAAGBAQGBAgGBA/2BgAGBgQGBggGBg/2CAAGCAQGCAgGCA/2CgAGCgQGCggGCg/2DAAGDA QGDAgGDA/2D/AGD/QGD/gGD//4AAAIAAQIAAgIAA/4AgAIAgQIAggIAg/4BAAIBAQIBAgIBA /4BgAIBgQIBggIBg/4CAAICAQICAgICA/4CgAICgQICggICg/4DAAIDAQIDAgIDA/4D/AID/ QID/gID//6AAAKAAQKAAgKAA/6AgAKAgQKAggKAg/6BAAKBAQKBAgKBA/6BgAKBgQKBggKBg 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vNLRHbXzPNIn29vy7bf07dr2Tby9bNRE3WCqS9sTvd7gq9IuDdTxrd0QfeCyCs7+LdRIHdA/ bdpzDNf+/cqBzcxfnNw1K9aSK+IabqpDB8IOfd4bFiuXl+zivwrhL36uOl7b3NrjO06uQI7j QV7kC0Z+5Eie5EqurgEBADs= --------------060702060800090802060008-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27680 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 18:56:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 18:56:52 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9843 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 18:54:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 18:54:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15qfTT-0002YK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 19:49:59 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15qfTS-0002YF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 19:49:58 +0100 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15qfSo-000Ihk-0Y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 19:49:18 +0100 Message-ID: <3BC1F6FE.8EBE7D62@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 19:57:02 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: G6RO QRP References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011008103411.00a29be0@mail.pncl.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Walter G3JKV wrote: > > Ron, > Audible here most weekend at R2 S2. Would have been better except for > heavy QRN. On Spectran clearly visible and readable. Dist is 310 kms. > Walter G3JKV IO91UF 5113.3N 0019.5W Thanks for the report, Walter. I will QSP to Ron G6RO. I understand that Ron also worked Dave MM0ALM (354 km) on Sunday, just beating his previous 'best QRP DX' (with Tom G3OLB - 349 km). Note that Ron managed to work three countries in one day! Not bad for 5 watts of RF. Ron is going to plug away at QRP CW for a few more days to see who else he can work. Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 517 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 18:25:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 18:25:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 4566 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 18:23:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 18:23:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15qevg-0002G5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 19:15:04 +0100 Received: from mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz ([210.86.15.138]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15qeve-00028N-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 19:15:03 +0100 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.181.6]) by mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail vM.5.01.03.02 201-253-122-118-102-20010403) with SMTP id <20011008181348.CDOD11927.mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Tue, 9 Oct 2001 07:13:48 +1300 Message-ID: <001c01c15025$32700a20$06b51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002501c1500c$402cec00$9edcff3e@oemcomputer> Subject: LF: Re: Power Supply Date: Tue, 9 Oct 2001 07:03:13 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Pete, > Hi, I am thinking of buying a new PSU, has anyone any experience with Switch > Mode PSU's. Is there any sproggies on 137Kz? The PSU I am particularly > interested in is the Diamond GZV-2500, any advice welcome. Still just a SWL > on VLF but that could change soon, 73 Pete G3KNU My advice is to use linear regulated power supplies if you want to avoid self-inflicted QRM on the lower bands. QST had some reviews of switch mode power supplies a few months back, and that included a wideband spectrum analyser graphic for each one tested. Each graphic showed that spurious emissions are present, and increase at the lower end of the spectrum. 73, Bob From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4652 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 16:23:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 16:23:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 18869 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 16:23:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 16:23:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15qd6H-00016V-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 17:17:53 +0100 Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.45]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15qd6G-00016Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 17:17:52 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([62.255.220.158]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20011008161712.ERLN20588.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 17:17:12 +0100 Message-ID: <002501c1500c$402cec00$9edcff3e@oemcomputer> From: "peter.jackson17" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Power Supply Date: Mon, 8 Oct 2001 16:16:47 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.3018.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi, I am thinking of buying a new PSU, has anyone any experience with Switch Mode PSU's. Is there any sproggies on 137Kz? The PSU I am particularly interested in is the Diamond GZV-2500, any advice welcome. Still just a SWL on VLF but that could change soon, 73 Pete G3KNU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29688 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 11:31:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 11:31:10 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 19660 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 11:30:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 11:30:57 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15qYXc-0006gY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 12:25:48 +0100 Received: from e21.nc.us.ibm.com ([32.97.136.227]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15qYXb-0006gT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 12:25:47 +0100 Received: from southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.208]) by e21.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA192488 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 06:22:10 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss7.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.72]) by southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v4.97.1) with ESMTP id f98BOXL126678 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 07:24:34 -0400 Message-ID: <3BC18CE0.51835705@usa.net> Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 13:24:16 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: New Spectran V 1 References: <14d.213bcd6.28f00555@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: DL4YHF@aol.com wrote: > Hello Alberto, Vittorio, and group, > > Curious as I am, I immediately installed the brand new Spectran V1 b106 this morning and was > amazed of the performance and stability of it. Whatever I tried, I didn't get it to crash... ;-) > The scrolling is indeed very smooth, the automated detection of the signal paths inside the > soundcard worked right from the beginning, and the DSP denoiser makes listening on HF a pleasure > (I didn't use it on LF yet). > > Good job ! Hello Wolf, thanks for the report, expecially as it is coming from, ehm.., the 'competition'.. :-) But, seriously, the target audiences of Spectran and your excellent SpecLab are a bit different. Spectran is geared towards the end user, while yours is more oriented to people that know how to specify, let's say, the coefficients of an IIR or FIR filter. So perhaps there is no a real competition, having the two programs different goals. Very glad you haven't been able (so far) to crash it, but I would be even more glad if you could... that would mean that you have found one of the undoubtely many bugs that are lurking inside the program, just waiting to be awakened... TNX es 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13553 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 09:49:46 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 09:49:46 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6599 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 09:48:33 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 09:48:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15qWmi-0005cx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 10:33:16 +0100 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15qWme-0005cs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 10:33:12 +0100 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (126.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.126]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f989WOU02165 for ; Mon, 8 Oct 2001 10:32:24 +0100 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011008103411.00a29be0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Mon, 08 Oct 2001 10:37:24 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: G6RO/QRP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Ron, Audible here most weekend at R2 S2. Would have been better except for heavy QRN. On Spectran clearly visible and readable. Dist is 310 kms. Walter G3JKV IO91UF 5113.3N 0019.5W From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 482 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 01:07:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 01:07:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 1371 invoked from network); 8 Oct 2001 01:06:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Oct 2001 01:06:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15qOjK-0000e4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 01:57:14 +0100 Received: from tomts17.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.71] helo=tomts17-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15qOjJ-0000dz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 08 Oct 2001 01:57:14 +0100 Received: from server1 ([216.209.138.118]) by tomts17-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20011008005602.TEOO19597.tomts17-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 20:56:02 -0400 Message-ID: <008601c14f93$f9ed7480$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3BBD97D2.EAB6A4E2@t-online.de> Subject: LF: Re: Spots in DXC... Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 20:30:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > K7SS-@ 136.9 DJ5BV 339 in WA State! 2125 25 Nov > 1999 > W6KH-@ 136.8 K7SS 579 Calling CQ DX Europe! 2136 25 Nov > 1999 > K7SS-@ 137.5 DJ1SF 339 at 0430Z 2207 19 Nov > 2000 > K7SS-@ 136.9 DF6NM HRD ONLY 339 0118 22 Jan > 2001 Fabian: I spoke with K7SS at the time and he has never been on LF and denied any participation in this area. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27558 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2001 18:06:08 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Oct 2001 18:06:08 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 13398 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2001 18:03:56 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 7 Oct 2001 18:03:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15qIDa-0005Dm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Oct 2001 19:00:02 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15qIDZ-0005CO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Oct 2001 19:00:02 +0100 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15qICv-000A6E-0Y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 18:59:22 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 7 Oct 2001 18:58:25 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: Re: LF: Re: G6RO QRP transmissions In-reply-to: <3BC02BA1.9D6883A5@alg.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 3.05 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Ron's signal has been 549/559 with me all day in Devon and had a 100% copy QSO with him this morning. Well done Ron (and Steve)! Tom G3OLB Steve Rawlings writes >Dave G3YMC wrote: >> I heard Ron G6RO calling CQ several times last week identifying as >> using qrp - he was 549, perfect copy, against the 579 I normally copy >> him. . . . . At 283km this is an excellent distance for qrp. > >Mike G3XDV wrote: >> I heard Ron on Sunday morning, but only at 319, signing G6RO/QRP. > >This morning (Sunday) I had a fine QSO with Ron. His QRP signal (5 W RF) >was RST 439 here (with QRM & QRN), rising to R5 at times. Distance is 253 >km. The remarkable thing is that Ron's QTH is off the side of my single >turn loop - the only TX/RX antenna that I had available this morning! I'm >sure that Ron would have been RST 559, if I had been using an >omnidirectional antenna. > >Regards to all, >Steve GW4ALG > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15832 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2001 11:21:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Oct 2001 11:21:45 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 25609 invoked from network); 7 Oct 2001 11:20:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 7 Oct 2001 11:20:29 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15qBnE-0001Mb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Oct 2001 12:08:24 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15qBnD-0001MW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 07 Oct 2001 12:08:23 +0100 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15qAs5-000AcQ-0Y; Sun, 7 Oct 2001 11:09:22 +0100 Message-ID: <3BC02BA1.9D6883A5@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 07 Oct 2001 11:17:05 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: G6RO QRP transmissions References: <001801c14e61$b43ee6e0$a25e7ad5@dave> <000b01c14e64$ebd84580$8b6368d5@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave G3YMC wrote: > I heard Ron G6RO calling CQ several times last week identifying as > using qrp - he was 549, perfect copy, against the 579 I normally copy > him. . . . . At 283km this is an excellent distance for qrp. Mike G3XDV wrote: > I heard Ron on Sunday morning, but only at 319, signing G6RO/QRP. This morning (Sunday) I had a fine QSO with Ron. His QRP signal (5 W RF) was RST 439 here (with QRM & QRN), rising to R5 at times. Distance is 253 km. The remarkable thing is that Ron's QTH is off the side of my single turn loop - the only TX/RX antenna that I had available this morning! I'm sure that Ron would have been RST 559, if I had been using an omnidirectional antenna. Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7464 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2001 19:11:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Oct 2001 19:11:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 18899 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2001 19:10:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Oct 2001 19:10:14 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pwhq-0000lv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 20:01:50 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pwhp-0000lq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 20:01:49 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15pwhB-0004ht-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 20:01:09 +0100 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15pwhB-0006Dv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 20:01:09 +0100 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 20:04:09 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: More antenna results X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, I have now added a further 130 or so points to my spreadsheet of field strength measurements. The original measurements were for an 8m high inverted L on 136kHz; for the new results I repeated the 136kHz experiments with the antenna in 17.5m high inverted V configuration, and also on 71.62kHz using both configurations of antenna. The top wire length was 40m in both cases. As before, plotting ERP vs. distance shows that at distances greater than 1km, and up to the maximum distance measured (about 6km) the ERP calculated from the field strength is fairly constant for each antenna and frequency. At distances below 1km, there is a rapidly rising trend in ERP as the distance decreases, indicating that near field effects are dominating the field strength. Again as before, there were no obvious directional effects when ERP was plotted against bearing from the transmitter. The same antenna current of 2A was used in all experiments; the average ERPs obtained are given below. I also used EZNEC to calculate the radiation resistance, and so, using the measured antenna current, calculate the expected ERP. I have also included rough measurements of the loss resistance for each antenna (excluding the loading coil): 8m inv L, 136kHz Rrad = 0.0198ohm ERP (calculated) = -8.5dBW ERP(from FS measurements) = -11.2dBW difference (measured - calculated) = -2.7dB Rloss=35ohms 17.5m inv V, 136kHz Rrad = 0.0464ohm ERP (calculated) = --4.8dBW ERP(from FS measurements) = -5.8dBW difference (measured - calculated) = -1.0dB Rloss = 27ohms 8m inv L, 71.62kHz Rrad = 0.0058ohm ERP (calculated) = -13.8dBW ERP(from FS measurements) = -17.8dBW difference (measured - calculated) = -4.0dB Rloss=63ohms 17.5m inv V, 71.62kHz Rrad = 0.0129ohm ERP (calculated) = -10.3dBW ERP(from FS measurements) = -12.5dBW difference (measured - calculated) = -2.2dB Rloss = 47ohms Some conclusions can be drawn about the "missing decibels" (ie. the difference between measured and calculated ERPs). The fact that the measured ERP is constant at distances greater than 1km indicates that the decibels must already be missing by this distance, ie. the losses occur within the near field of the antenna. There is less difference between calculated and measured ERP for the higher inverted V antenna than for the inverted L. This is consistent with the intuitive idea that the missing power is absorbed by objects obstructing the antenna - the higher antenna benefits because there are less obstructions for the signal as it propagates into the surrounding space. An interesting thing is that, with a vertical transmitting antenna tuned against ground (ie. an "electric" antenna) and a ferrite rod receiving antenna (ie, H field sensing), the apparent field strength rises sharply at short distances. The usual statement seems to be that in the near field of the electric antenna, the H field is proportionally smaller and the E field larger than in the far field - ie E/H is greater than 120pi ohms. It would now be interesting to try a similar series of measurements with a transmitter in an urban QTH, since the "missing decibels" losses seem to be much larger in these conditions. If anyone would like to look at the data I have collected so far, I have put it all together on on one spreadsheet, which I can E-mail in Microsoft Excel, plain text, and various other formats. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17231 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2001 14:43:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Oct 2001 14:43:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9270 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2001 14:41:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Oct 2001 14:41:19 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15psZC-0006hx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 15:36:38 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15psZB-0006hs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 15:36:37 +0100 Received: from ldsas15-79-130-33.cw-visp.com ([212.137.130.33] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15psPm-0005Gh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 14:26:54 +0000 Message-ID: <3BBF07F4.E2F52C5E@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 14:32:37 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 500 kHz as experimental license in the U.S.? References: <171.1f3df2a.28ef7e08@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Carmelink@aol.com wrote: > Hi Geri, > Additional on their application: they have asked for several spot frequencies on the 600M band, plus 166.5 khz. If the project is approved by FCC's Office of Science & Technology (keeper of the X-calls), they will be assigned the Experimental call WC2XSR. Processing time can be up to 90 days. > > Participants listed are: W0OGH, W6DJX, K6QQ, WB6BYH, WA6QPL, K2VCO, W7QHO, W0RW, KH6O, W7EKB, K9EUI, W5TVW, W5JGV, AA1P, K1LKY, KJ4TG, NA4G, W4TIM, N4HAF, W4AUV, KQ2P, K0NG, N2CDD, WA7DIA, W8AU, KD6B, KF6AR, WA6RBQ, W7JWA, KE3AL, WS4S, W5USM, W5FRS, AB5S, KC4TOS,KG7YK. > > Mike W2AG (LWCA) I understand this proposal for a slot around the LF side of 500 khz has been under consideration for some time in the UK and possibly other EU countries. In a conversation overheard on 80 metres discussing the 500 khz proposal, seemingly it is being considered by the UK licence authority favourably. The licence Authority in the UK was approached some time back by a number of ex Marine Radio Officers about the possibility and were directed towards the radio amateur route to persue their case. This is the story overheard on 80 metres, the band for information and education !!!!!!!!! G3KEV > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14938 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2001 12:51:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Oct 2001 12:51:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 19539 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2001 12:49:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Oct 2001 12:49:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pqqN-0005ia-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 13:46:15 +0100 Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.43]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pqqM-0005iV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 13:46:14 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.99.139]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20011006124534.XRBV23687.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 13:45:34 +0100 Message-ID: <000b01c14e64$ebd84580$8b6368d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001801c14e61$b43ee6e0$a25e7ad5@dave> Subject: LF: Re: G6RO QRP transmissions Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 13:46:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > From Dave G3YMC > I heard Ron G6RO calling CQ several times last week identifying as using qrp - he was > 549, perfect copy, against the 579 I normally copy him. Fortunately my local qrm was > off at the time. > I did not realise until I mentioned this to Steve GW4ALG today that Ron is in fact > using Steve's 5W qrp rig. At 283km this is an excellent distance for qrp. Please > pass this information to Ron if you speak to him before me. > There is much that can be done on the band by us low power operators!! I heard Ron on Sunday morning, but only at 319, signing G6RO/QRP. Mike, G3XDV IO91VT (Welwyn Garden City) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26879 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2001 12:25:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Oct 2001 12:25:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 7597 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2001 12:23:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Oct 2001 12:23:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pqRS-0005Qi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 13:20:30 +0100 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pqRR-0005Qd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 13:20:29 +0100 Received: from [213.122.94.162] (helo=dave) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15pqQn-0003lI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 13:19:49 +0100 Message-ID: <001801c14e61$b43ee6e0$a25e7ad5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: G6RO QRP transmissions Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 13:21:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC I heard Ron G6RO calling CQ several times last week identifying as using qrp - he was 549, perfect copy, against the 579 I normally copy him. Fortunately my local qrm was off at the time. I did not realise until I mentioned this to Steve GW4ALG today that Ron is in fact using Steve's 5W qrp rig. At 283km this is an excellent distance for qrp. Please pass this information to Ron if you speak to him before me. There is much that can be done on the band by us low power operators!! 73s Dave G3YMC IO91PJ Bracknell dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13722 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2001 11:22:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Oct 2001 11:22:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 24560 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2001 11:21:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Oct 2001 11:21:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ppOz-0004gx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 12:13:53 +0100 Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ppOy-0004gs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 12:13:52 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.97.70]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20011006111312.HMCF15984.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 12:13:12 +0100 Message-ID: <001c01c14e58$03ade0a0$466168d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3BBEAE42.8040DCF7@alg.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: LF: Re: Morse on 136k Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 12:14:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Jim wrote: > > Well, maybe not then - but interestingly, I note from the schedule for > > the new "Foundation" M2xxx licence on the RSGB web site, that holders > > of the Foundation licence will be allowed to run the full 1W ERP on > > 136kHz. So now it's official - you don't need to pass the morse test > > to operate on LF... > > As far as operation on longwave is concerned, I am concerned that this form > of licencing presents unacceptable safety risks. I have written to the RA > asking them to reconsider the inclusion of 136 kHz. > Steve GW4ALG It is certainly true that Foundation Licence does not require "the Morse Test". However, a knowledge of how to read Morse code must still be demonstrated. Interestingly, the method used - decoding written dots and dashes - is exactly what we do with QRSS. Mike, G3XDV http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1336 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2001 09:34:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Oct 2001 09:34:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 6650 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2001 09:32:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Oct 2001 09:32:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pnkZ-0003gC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 10:28:03 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pnkY-0003g7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 10:28:02 +0100 Received: from [213.122.242.151] (helo=dave) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15pnjt-0002UB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 10:27:21 +0100 Message-ID: <000a01c14e49$9d4c7fa0$97f27ad5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" References: <001601c14dcc$880cec60$7384fc3e@roy> Subject: LF: Re: FWD: What is going on here ? Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 10:21:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC HighGain wrote: Here is hoping that I pass the 5 word a minute Morse test. I shall find it very easy as I was preparing for the 12 wpm test I was slightly puzzled why the foundation licence included 136, though I guess they had to do so if they were allowing full access without a full morse test. CW is effectively the only mode used on 136, apart from occasional psk and similar tests. You still need to read the morse off your computer screen if you use QRSS... I suspect even 5wpm is pretty useless on the band for real QSOs. The foundation class licence is presumably for those wishing to use ssb and rtty/psk on hf without the morse requirement. SSB on 136 is out of the question because of the band width (though I know slow voice has been tried...). I look forward to a QSO with Roy in the future when he gets on the band - normal CW only of course. My activity on the band is sadly greatly restricted by my local TV qrm at the moment. 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15019 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2001 07:12:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Oct 2001 07:12:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 12342 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2001 07:10:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Oct 2001 07:10:06 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15plU7-0002Oc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 08:02:55 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15plU6-0002OX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 08:02:54 +0100 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15plTR-000MLX-0Y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 08:02:13 +0100 Message-ID: <3BBEAE42.8040DCF7@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 06 Oct 2001 08:09:54 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Morse on 136k References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jim wrote: > Well, maybe not then - but interestingly, I note from the schedule for > the new "Foundation" M2xxx licence on the RSGB web site, that holders > of the Foundation licence will be allowed to run the full 1W ERP on > 136kHz. So now it's official - you don't need to pass the morse test > to operate on LF... As far as operation on longwave is concerned, I am concerned that this form of licencing presents unacceptable safety risks. I have written to the RA asking them to reconsider the inclusion of 136 kHz. Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4482 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2001 07:08:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Oct 2001 07:08:58 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10377 invoked from network); 6 Oct 2001 07:06:42 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Oct 2001 07:06:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15plPZ-0002Ev-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 07:58:13 +0100 Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.98]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15plPY-0002Eq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 06 Oct 2001 07:58:12 +0100 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.7.) id l.14d.213bcd6 (4069) for ; Sat, 6 Oct 2001 02:57:26 -0400 (EDT) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <14d.213bcd6.28f00555@aol.com> Date: Sat, 6 Oct 2001 02:57:25 EDT Subject: LF: Re: New Spectran V 1 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 10504 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Alberto, Vittorio,   and group,

Curious as I am, I immediately installed the brand new Spectran V1 b106 this morning and was amazed of the performance and stability of it. Whatever I tried, I didn't get it to crash...  ;-)
The scrolling is indeed very smooth, the automated detection of the signal paths inside the soundcard worked right from the beginning, and the DSP denoiser makes listening on HF a pleasure (I didn't use it on LF yet).

Good job !


73, Wolf  DL4YHF.

P.S. for Uwe: the DX cluster for 136kHz is at
http://oh2aq.kolumbus.com/dxs/137.html
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16867 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2001 21:24:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Oct 2001 21:24:46 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6539 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2001 21:24:33 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Oct 2001 21:24:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pcP1-0005Fq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 22:21:03 +0100 Received: from imo-d01.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pcP0-0005Fl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 22:21:02 +0100 Received: from Carmelink@aol.com by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.8.) id l.171.1f3df2a (5713) for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 17:20:08 -0400 (EDT) Received: from web48.aolmail.aol.com (web48.aolmail.aol.com [205.188.161.9]) by air-id04.mx.aol.com (v81.9) with ESMTP id MAILINID46-1005172008; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 17:20:08 -0400 Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 17:20:08 EDT From: Carmelink@aol.com Subject: Re: LF: 500 kHz as experimental license in the U.S.? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Unknown (No Version) Message-ID: <171.1f3df2a.28ef7e08@aol.com> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Geri, Additional on their application: they have asked for several spot frequencies on the 600M band, plus 166.5 khz. If the project is approved by FCC's Office of Science & Technology (keeper of the X-calls), they will be assigned the Experimental call WC2XSR. Processing time can be up to 90 days. Participants listed are: W0OGH, W6DJX, K6QQ, WB6BYH, WA6QPL, K2VCO, W7QHO, W0RW, KH6O, W7EKB, K9EUI, W5TVW, W5JGV, AA1P, K1LKY, KJ4TG, NA4G, W4TIM, N4HAF, W4AUV, KQ2P, K0NG, N2CDD, WA7DIA, W8AU, KD6B, KF6AR, WA6RBQ, W7JWA, KE3AL, WS4S, W5USM, W5FRS, AB5S, KC4TOS,KG7YK. Mike W2AG (LWCA) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22895 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2001 18:41:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Oct 2001 18:41:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 18177 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2001 18:40:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Oct 2001 18:40:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pZo3-0003eD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 19:34:43 +0100 Received: from mta3-svc.virgin.net ([62.253.164.43]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pZnz-0003e8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 19:34:40 +0100 Received: from roy ([62.252.132.115]) by mta3-svc.virgin.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20011005183358.QVAZ23417.mta3-svc.virgin.net@roy> for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 19:33:58 +0100 Message-ID: <001601c14dcc$880cec60$7384fc3e@roy> From: "HighGain" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: FWD: What is going on here ? Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 19:35:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2479.0006 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi,
This is my first posting into this mailing reflector. I thought I would be receiving a little more constructive dialogue ? It seems that some individual members. Are very jealous ? About the success of others hard work and endeavours. On the 136 kHz band. I intend myself to become fully QRV on this band before the end of this year Hi.
 
Here is hoping that I pass the 5 word a minute Morse test. I shall find it very easy as I was preparing for the 12 wpm test.
 
Question ! does that make me any less superior when I join the HF, MF and LF crowd. I sincerely hope not. I have no radio engineering back ground.... ( I feel a barrage of attacks coming on already ). Though I feel very confident I will make some nice contacts on this band when I get going. And I have a large Ant Array ( Very efficient ) here already prepared for these bands. Along with a Hi Power Linear Amp. Though I see that might spark some quick fire remarks. What is wrong with large Ant Arrays and running a bit of juice ? I certainly would not wish to fire 26DBW into a broom handle... he he he...
 
Mal G3KEV, I agree about your thoughts and comments. You know as well as I do though Mal. There are certain people who just love to poke there nose into everyone else's business ( Jealousy is a disease ). Sad fact of life, and never have I read and heard so much of this type of behaviour. As is in the hobby of Amateur Radio :( Thank god the RA have amended the rules and regs. Hopefully we will have some very capable young men and ladies bless the bands.
 
 
Regards & Best Wishes
Roy
 
Station Call MM1LPF QTH Locator IO87VG 
 
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20523 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2001 18:04:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Oct 2001 18:04:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3357 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2001 18:01:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Oct 2001 18:01:49 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pZ7h-0003CV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 18:50:57 +0100 Received: from mailout06.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.19] helo=mailout06.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pZ7g-0003CQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 18:50:57 +0100 Received: from fwd02.sul.t-online.de by mailout06.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 15pZ72-0003QX-0I; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 19:50:16 +0200 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[193.159.25.206]) by fwd02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 15pZ6y-0FXoQ4C; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 19:50:12 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3BBD97D2.EAB6A4E2@t-online.de> Subject: Re: LF: Spots in DXC... X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 19:50:12 +0200 Message-ID: <15pZ6y-0FXoQ4C@fwd02.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Schenk-Kurz schrieb: > Hello, > > while looking through the DX-Spots in the OH2AQ-Webcluster Database for > VLF I saw some spots > from K7SS, spotting european stations. are these spots just fakes or did > he heally hear EU in WA??? > > K7SS-@ 136.9 DJ5BV 339 in WA State! 2125 25 Nov > 1999 > W6KH-@ 136.8 K7SS 579 Calling CQ DX Europe! 2136 25 Nov > 1999 > K7SS-@ 137.5 DJ1SF 339 at 0430Z 2207 19 Nov > 2000 > K7SS-@ 136.9 DF6NM HRD ONLY 339 0118 22 Jan > 2001 > > I couldn't find any clues in the internet that he is really operating > VLF... furthermore the spots are entered > on the Webpage of OH2AQ-Cluster (that's why there is the -@ symbol), > other spots of him come from the packet network... > > vy 73 de Fabian dj1yfk Hallo Fabian, wo finde ich den OH2AQ-Webcluster ? 73 Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26600 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2001 17:27:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Oct 2001 17:27:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 29876 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2001 17:27:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Oct 2001 17:27:08 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pYgL-0002ua-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 18:22:41 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pYgK-0002uV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 18:22:41 +0100 Received: from ldsas15-79-130-34.cw-visp.com ([212.137.130.34] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15pYWw-0001gz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 17:12:58 +0000 Message-ID: <3BBDDE36.CCDC8148@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 17:22:14 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Big/small antennas References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011004082609.00a1f080@mail.pncl.co.uk> <3.0.1.16.20011005083533.2bef4faa@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik Strobbe wrote: > At 12:28 4/10/01 +0200, you wrote: > >Not necessarily. According to the currently valid regulation in OK land we > can legally emit up to allowed power for the op's class, in my case it is > 1kW. No note about limited ERP for 136 kHz band... This regulation was > already in force when I transmitted from the 150 m high T-ant. No abuse, > paradise for LFers. > >Someone else here also mentioned that they don't have limited ERP on 136 > kHz, I guess it was PA or ON land? > > > >73 Petr OK1FIG > > Hello Petr, > > As far as I got it the 1 Watt ERP limit is given by the CEPT/ERC > Recommendation 62-01 E (see http://www.ero.dk/carc/cer62-01e.htm ). > Apart from that several in several countries are giving additional (!) > power limits, eg : > Belgium : 2kW output (lifted in 04-2001) > Holland : 400W output > Finland : 100W output > Germany : 20W output (lifted ?) > So I assume that in any country that follows the CEPT 62-01 E there is the > 1 Watt ERP limit ? > In practice for most of us this 1 Watt limit is a rather theoretical > burden, unless you run many kW and use huge isolators. > Lifting the 1W limit would probabably get 2 or 3 very strong stations on > the band and spoil the fun for all the others. Crossing the pond with a > bute force of 100W ERP is no challenge, doing the same with far less than > 1W ERP must give a real satisfaction. > > 73, Rik Why are some persons getting so concerned about what happens in other countries besides their own. Does it matter whether one country is permitted 5kw and another 10mw. Some will be suggesting before long that there be a limit on antenna height. On all the other amateur bands, there is a big variation amongst countries as regards permitted power, so why single out the LF bands There will always be outstanding signals from those that put maximum effort into their system. There will also be enjoyment for those less enthusastic and content with qrp and bits of wire lying on the ground. It is called freedom of choice, so be content with what ever you are doing and do not interfere or dictate to others. I personally am not concerned if my neighbour has more power, a bigger house or car etc than myself. I would congratulate him on his success, and certainly not redicule or take a dislike to him because he was doing better than me. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26689 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2001 17:20:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Oct 2001 17:20:41 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17484 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2001 17:18:30 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Oct 2001 17:18:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pYXf-0002lZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 18:13:43 +0100 Received: from siaag2ae.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.135]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pYXe-0002lU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 18:13:42 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2ae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id NAA10302 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 13:12:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 13:12:33 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: 500 kHz as experimental license in the U.S.? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200110051312_MC3-E258-5A33@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LowFers, I found the following messages on the LONGWAVE MESSAGE BOARD. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ------------------------------------------------- Posted by Jonathan W2MXW on August 18, 2001 at 16:26:22: Hi all, I'm posting this query here rather than to the Lowfer list as 3 attempts to do the latter were unsuccessful - the messages seem never to have made it. I have noticed frequent mention on the Glowbugs list to which I subscribe, of what sounds like, judging from the context, a number of folks awaiting FCC approval for operation under an experimental license on 600 meters (~500 kHz). Guys talking about modifying their boatanchor tube rigs like DX-40's, etc. to get down there, apparently expectant of approval. But no specifics...anyone know anything about this? Doesn't seem to be AMRAD-related, BTW. 73 de W2MXW Posted by Mike W2AG on October 01, 2001 at 07:14:21: In Reply to: Re: 600 meter experimental license? posted by Jonathan Smick W2MXW on August 25, 2001 at 15:05:38: Their application is now posted on the FCC site with the file number 0213-EX-PL-2001, received Sept. 21. The 600 Meter Research Group, through W7EKB, is asking for 400w TPO, 200w ERP at 36 locations all over the US, including the RW beacon. They report that 440-500 khz was abandoned by all users in the Western Hemisphere more than 5 years ago (PPA and CLA take note). From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11895 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2001 16:59:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Oct 2001 16:59:30 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27828 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2001 16:57:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Oct 2001 16:57:19 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pYAm-0002aa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 17:50:04 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pYAl-0002aV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 17:50:04 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15pYA6-0007Ma-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 17:49:22 +0100 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15pYA6-0003py-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 17:49:22 +0100 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 17:52:21 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Re: Morse on 136k X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group,

G3KEV wrote:
"..... It is surprising how a class A operator ..... could forget the code because in those days it was mandatory to use morse for the first year before being permitted to use phone. Was there a special A class licence that did not need the morse code test !!!!!!!! Etc., etc., etc."

Well, maybe not then - but interestingly, I note from the schedule for the new "Foundation" M2xxx licence on the RSGB web site, that holders of the Foundation licence will be allowed to run the full 1W ERP on 136kHz. So now it's official - you don't need to pass the morse test to operate on LF...

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25552 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2001 16:16:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Oct 2001 16:16:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3031 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2001 16:14:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Oct 2001 16:14:43 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pXY3-00029n-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 17:10:03 +0100 Received: from e34.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.132] helo=e34.bld.us.ibm.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pXXy-00029L-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 17:09:58 +0100 Received: from westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com [9.99.140.22]) by e34.bld.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA44284 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 12:06:52 -0400 Received: from usa.net (ss9.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.75]) by westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v4.98) with ESMTP id f95G7wX113844 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 10:07:59 -0600 Message-ID: <3BBDDAD0.CB569DF4@usa.net> Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 18:07:44 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Mailing List" Subject: LF: Spectran V1 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have just uploaded Spectran V1 to the Web site : http://www.weaksignals.com It has many improvements wrt the previous beta 4 version, among which : - dB calibrated display - Named saving/restoring of the settings - Timed screen capture (BMP, JPEG or GIF) - Improved adjustability of the dynamic range - Selectable palettes - Preset modes for NDBs and QRSS - Increased compatibility with more sound cards - Crash-proof mixer settings handling - Sampling up to 48 kHz - A very smooth waterfall scrolling Please download and test it for bugs and compatibility problems (I am sure there will be a few, but hopefully less than with the previous beta version). Once you have downloaded and installed this version, please refrain from executing the old version, which will probably fail, and moreover you will be forced to rerun the setup procedure. Thanks for any reports 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 665 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2001 11:35:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Oct 2001 11:35:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15557 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2001 11:33:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Oct 2001 11:33:08 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pT9I-0007m5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 12:28:12 +0100 Received: from mailout03.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.81] helo=mailout03.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pT9H-0007m0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 12:28:11 +0100 Received: from fwd07.sul.t-online.de by mailout03.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 15pT8c-0005AG-0D; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 13:27:30 +0200 Received: from t-online.de (0597156897-0001@[62.158.156.172]) by fwd07.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 15pT8O-0piIG8C; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 13:27:16 +0200 Message-ID: <3BBD97D2.EAB6A4E2@t-online.de> Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 13:21:54 +0200 From: "Schenk-Kurz" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [de]C-CCK-MCD QXW0324v (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: de,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Spots in DXC... Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 0597156897-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello, while looking through the DX-Spots in the OH2AQ-Webcluster Database for VLF I saw some spots from K7SS, spotting european stations. are these spots just fakes or did he heally hear EU in WA??? K7SS-@ 136.9 DJ5BV 339 in WA State! 2125 25 Nov 1999 W6KH-@ 136.8 K7SS 579 Calling CQ DX Europe! 2136 25 Nov 1999 K7SS-@ 137.5 DJ1SF 339 at 0430Z 2207 19 Nov 2000 K7SS-@ 136.9 DF6NM HRD ONLY 339 0118 22 Jan 2001 I couldn't find any clues in the internet that he is really operating VLF... furthermore the spots are entered on the Webpage of OH2AQ-Cluster (that's why there is the -@ symbol), other spots of him come from the packet network... vy 73 de Fabian dj1yfk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3456 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2001 09:31:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Oct 2001 09:31:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16565 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2001 09:30:51 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Oct 2001 09:30:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pREG-0006ZF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 10:25:12 +0100 Received: from siaag2af.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.136]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pRED-0006ZA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 10:25:09 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2af.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id FAA12529 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 05:24:25 -0400 (EDT) Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 05:23:46 -0400 From: "Holger 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Big/small antennas To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200110050524_MC3-E24A-5841@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik, ON7YD wrote: >Belgium : 2kW output (lifted in 04-2001) >Holland : 400W output >Finland : 100W output >Germany : 20W output (lifted ?) ... just let me explain the German situation: there were 5 special permits for 1 W ERP issued after Walter, DJ2LF and Markus, DF6NM had contacted the authorities last year. In the meantime, after no problems have been reported with those five stations, any German amateur may apply for that 1 W ERP special license, provided he (or she) gives a reasonable explanation on what tests he (or she) wants to perform, and he (or she) observes the rules in regards to safety of persons in electromagnetic fields. Bets 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) ... finding it exciting to try to reach as much as possible with about 200mW ERP on LF ... I still have my 5-element beam in my garden, but guess what I love: to operate on HF with my FT-817 and a three foot antenna, operating pedestrian mobile with a few mW ERP ... quite similar to our situation on LF ... From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21211 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2001 07:47:02 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Oct 2001 07:47:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9179 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2001 07:44:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Oct 2001 07:44:51 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pPYQ-0005UO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 08:37:54 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pPYP-0005UJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 08:37:53 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA759832 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 09:37:10 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20011005083533.2bef4faa@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 08:35:33 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Big/small antennas In-reply-to: <026201c14cbf$4b630690$1601a8c0@cz.gmc.net> References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011004082609.00a1f080@mail.pncl.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 12:28 4/10/01 +0200, you wrote: >Not necessarily. According to the currently valid regulation in OK land we can legally emit up to allowed power for the op's class, in my case it is 1kW. No note about limited ERP for 136 kHz band... This regulation was already in force when I transmitted from the 150 m high T-ant. No abuse, paradise for LFers. >Someone else here also mentioned that they don't have limited ERP on 136 kHz, I guess it was PA or ON land? > >73 Petr OK1FIG Hello Petr, As far as I got it the 1 Watt ERP limit is given by the CEPT/ERC Recommendation 62-01 E (see http://www.ero.dk/carc/cer62-01e.htm ). Apart from that several in several countries are giving additional (!) power limits, eg : Belgium : 2kW output (lifted in 04-2001) Holland : 400W output Finland : 100W output Germany : 20W output (lifted ?) So I assume that in any country that follows the CEPT 62-01 E there is the 1 Watt ERP limit ? In practice for most of us this 1 Watt limit is a rather theoretical burden, unless you run many kW and use huge isolators. Lifting the 1W limit would probabably get 2 or 3 very strong stations on the band and spoil the fun for all the others. Crossing the pond with a bute force of 100W ERP is no challenge, doing the same with far less than 1W ERP must give a real satisfaction. 73, Rik From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11935 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2001 07:24:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Oct 2001 07:24:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 26575 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2001 07:22:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Oct 2001 07:22:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pPC5-0005Ct-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 08:14:49 +0100 Received: from smtp.seznam.cz ([195.119.180.43] helo=email.seznam.cz) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pPC4-0005Co-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 08:14:48 +0100 Received: (qmail 7502 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2001 07:14:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO OK1FIG) (195.47.69.2) by smtp.seznam.cz with SMTP; 5 Oct 2001 07:14:00 -0000 Message-ID: <00b101c14d6d$ab0414f0$1601a8c0@cz.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly \(OK1FIG\)" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Some modifications of receiver EKD300 Date: Fri, 5 Oct 2001 09:16:35 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
If you use, by chance, receiver EKD100 or EKD300:
 
73 Petr OK1FIG
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1780 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2001 07:20:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Oct 2001 07:20:46 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24891 invoked from network); 5 Oct 2001 07:18:38 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Oct 2001 07:18:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pP8F-0005Cf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 08:10:51 +0100 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pP8E-0005Ca-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 05 Oct 2001 08:10:50 +0100 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (251.235.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.235.251]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f957AAF28780 for ; Fri, 5 Oct 2001 08:10:11 +0100 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011005081023.00a1e120@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Fri, 05 Oct 2001 08:16:22 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: Re: LF: Which effect is this? In-reply-to: <13d.267907d.28ee0c5c@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit At 20:02 04/10/01 Thursday, Wolf wrote:
I guess if the car had a ferrite antenna like many of the old tabletop radios, things would be very different.

Yes. We found many years ago that ferrite loops worked fine under bridges etc with the Loran-C system.  They are also much better  in high electrostatic fields i.e. thunderstorms.The problem is they are directional so you have to have two crossed loops with phase matching.   I have such an antenna on my car now  for picking up the 300 kHz DGPS transmitters.

Walter G3JKV.



  From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20033 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 21:26:57 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 21:26:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28557 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 21:24:46 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 21:24:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pFuo-0007zp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 22:20:22 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.89]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pFun-0007zk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 22:20:21 +0100 Received: from pickmere.demon.co.uk ([158.152.117.143]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15pFu8-000GM4-0V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 22:19:41 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 19:35:53 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M.J.Powell" Subject: Re: LF: Which effect is this? References: <200110041316_MC3-E238-AB9B@compuserve.com> In-reply-to: <200110041316_MC3-E238-AB9B@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In message <200110041316_MC3-E238-AB9B@compuserve.com>, 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW writes >Hello LF group, > >I went to Holland recently, and listened to Deutschlandradio on 153 kHz. I >have already noticed years ago that mediumwave and longwave signals are >being attenuated or even completely faded out under bridges. Now, listening >to that radio transmission not too far away from our 136 kHz band I asked >myself some questions: > >Why is the signal faded out, even if the bridge over the highway is only a >few meters wide? The wavelength is almost 1000 times larger than the >obstacle. What does this tell us about the radiation pattern of the >Deutschlandradio? Does it really mean that the waves are coming >perpendicular from above (which seems to be a common explanation for this >effect)? Why does this effect only occur on LF and MF, but not on HF (I >have checked for example transmissions on 14 MHz, where I can see no effect >at all under bridges, altough the wavelength is much smaller, and the >obstace compared to the wavelength is much larger)? Could any similar >vertical obstacle (e.g. a chinmey, etc) also lead to such an attenuation, >for example if that chimney is in the direction of an LF station I want to >hear (I have a power plant with a 200m high chinmney only 4 km = 2 x lamda >away, 270 degress from here ...). Is this not akin to microwaves in a waveguide, whereby waves longer than a cutoff wavelength will not propagate? The cut-off frequency is: Fco = 2a where a is the dimension in the direction of the electric component. This gives the longest wave that will propagate. If you try and send longer waves through then only a small 'fringing' effect is observed. IIRC it is called 'evanescent propagation'. The long waves will of course propagate round an obstacle by diffraction, but not necessarily though a hole. Mike -- M.J.Powell From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 489 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 19:07:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 19:07:50 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 19319 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 19:07:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 19:07:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pDn0-0006fQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 20:04:10 +0100 Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.163]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pDmz-0006fL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 20:04:09 +0100 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.7.) id l.13d.267907d (4459) for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 15:02:53 -0400 (EDT) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <13d.267907d.28ee0c5c@aol.com> Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 15:02:52 EDT Subject: Re: LF: Which effect is this? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 10504 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Geri and group,

Maybe one reason why the MW car radio can be easily obstructed by highway bridges is this:

Think of the telescopic car antenna as a purely capacitive "E-field-probe". The E-field of a "low-frequency" signal can easily be shorted by the steel construction of the bridge (in the near field zone).
I guess if the car had a ferrite antenna like many of the old tabletop radios, things would be very different.

Just a quick thought...

73 Wolf.

Btw: The best time to be received at CT1DRP seems to be late night, when the DCF39 is also strong in CT. My 80mw got through quite well around (local) midnight but that was another season. I transmitted 5-minute long pulses at the beginning of every hour between 20:00 and 02:00 UTC. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5140 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 18:54:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 18:54:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 6195 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 18:54:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 18:54:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pDaF-0006VF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 19:50:59 +0100 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pDaE-0006VA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 19:50:58 +0100 Received: from [217.35.39.109] (helo=dellboy) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15pDZX-0000qN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 19:50:15 +0100 Message-ID: <001401c14d05$60621360$1700a8c0@home> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200110041316_MC3-E238-AB9B@compuserve.com> Subject: LF: Re: Which effect is this? Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 19:50:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4807.1700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Geri. Something to add to the discussion. The car radio antenna is an "e-field" device and the same effect is not true of a meagnetic antenna such as a ferrite rod. Dave G3YXM. -------------------------- I went to Holland recently, and listened to Deutschlandradio on 153 kHz. I have already noticed years ago that mediumwave and longwave signals are being attenuated or even completely faded out under bridges. Now, listening to that radio transmission not too far away from our 136 kHz band I asked myself some questions: From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13803 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 18:29:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 18:29:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24089 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 18:28:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 18:28:05 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pD7h-0006DU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 19:21:29 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pD7g-0006DP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 19:21:28 +0100 Received: from ldsas11-75-126-229.cw-visp.com ([212.137.126.229] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15pCyF-0004LM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 18:11:44 +0000 Message-ID: <3BBC9A7A.F76B2AD3@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 18:20:58 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: Abuse Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Recent messages indicate that some are running illegal power on LF and I suppose with all the ex Decca high power amplifiers about this could be possible. There is also the case of illegal and unlicensed beacons on the 73 and 136 khz. band left running all night unattended. Some G3 stations very verbal here have never been heard on hand send CW to make a qso on LF. It is surprising how a class A operator G3J.. and up to G3K.. could forget the code because in those days it was mandatory to use morse for the first year before being permitted to use phone. Was there a special A class licence that did not need the morse code test !!!!!!!! People in glass houses ought to be careful before pointing the finger and listening to third parties observations and measurements that could in most cases be unrelaible. My advice would be to tread carefully and look in your own back yard before venturing to criticize other fellow radio amateurs. I understand a G3 amateur, cannot remember the call, is designing a SUPER HIGH POWER LF amplifier for a match stick antenna and these will go into production if there is sufficient demand and you have a 3 phase ac mains supply. Think what would happen if these got into the wrong hands, someone with a broom stick antenna or even worse someone with a telegraph pole. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25084 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 17:22:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 17:22:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 2421 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 17:20:26 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 17:20:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pC7Y-0005bm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 18:17:16 +0100 Received: from siaag1ae.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.7]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pC7W-0005bh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 18:17:15 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id NAA10135 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:16:34 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:16:10 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Which effect is this? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200110041316_MC3-E238-AB9B@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LF group, I went to Holland recently, and listened to Deutschlandradio on 153 kHz. I have already noticed years ago that mediumwave and longwave signals are being attenuated or even completely faded out under bridges. Now, listening to that radio transmission not too far away from our 136 kHz band I asked myself some questions: Why is the signal faded out, even if the bridge over the highway is only a few meters wide? The wavelength is almost 1000 times larger than the obstacle. What does this tell us about the radiation pattern of the Deutschlandradio? Does it really mean that the waves are coming perpendicular from above (which seems to be a common explanation for this effect)? Why does this effect only occur on LF and MF, but not on HF (I have checked for example transmissions on 14 MHz, where I can see no effect at all under bridges, altough the wavelength is much smaller, and the obstace compared to the wavelength is much larger)? Could any similar vertical obstacle (e.g. a chinmey, etc) also lead to such an attenuation, for example if that chimney is in the direction of an LF station I want to hear (I have a power plant with a 200m high chinmney only 4 km = 2 x lamda away, 270 degress from here ...). Well, maybe some stuff for discussion ... or maybe a very simple technical explanation. Vy 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16006 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 17:14:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 17:14:53 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10388 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 17:14:33 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 17:14:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pBzK-0005T1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 18:08:46 +0100 Received: from siaag2aa.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.131]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15pBzJ-0005Sw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 18:08:45 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2aa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id NAA02038 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:08:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 13:06:05 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: CT1DRPs automatec rx, best time and parameters? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200110041306_MC3-E238-AB2D@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LF friends, after a couple of weeks of absense on LF I am back on the air since last weekend, with my 18m umbrella antenna re-erected. Recently I read about Brian's, CT1DRP automated recording of Slow-CW signals and saw the spectrograms. A few questions to those, who have successfully been recorded in CT: - what is the best time slot from DL? - which frequency within Brian's receiving window should I use (which one is not used by someone else)? - what is the best dot length? I would like to try to transmit next Saturday night. Thank you, best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 200 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 14:31:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 14:31:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 11410 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 14:31:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 14:31:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15p9Qu-0003mO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 15:25:04 +0100 Received: from cmailenv1.svr.pol.co.uk ([213.218.77.53]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15p9Qq-0003mI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 15:25:00 +0100 Received: from [62.21.166.22] (helo=w8k3f0) by cmailENV1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15p9QD-00027E-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 14:24:22 +0000 Message-ID: <003b01c14ce1$bd4bd260$16a6153e@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011004082609.00a1f080@mail.pncl.co.uk> <026201c14cbf$4b630690$1601a8c0@cz.gmc.net> Subject: LF: Dutch regulations Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 15:57:55 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
To All from PA0SE
 
Petr, OK1FIG wrote:
 
Someone else here also mentioned that they don't have limited ERP on 136 kHz, I guess it was PA or ON land?
 
It is in The Netherlands. According to our regulations power output of the transmitter may not exceed 400W Peak Envelope Power. In practice this means that with amateur type aerials we will never be able to attain 1W ERP.
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1659 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 12:06:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 12:06:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 20375 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 12:06:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 12:06:11 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15p7AU-0002GC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 12:59:58 +0100 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15p7AT-0002G7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 12:59:57 +0100 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (63.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.63]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f94BxBE25570 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 12:59:12 +0100 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011004130250.00a75dc0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 13:04:31 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Big/small antennas In-reply-to: <026201c14cbf$4b630690$1601a8c0@cz.gmc.net> References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011004082609.00a1f080@mail.pncl.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit At 11:28 04/10/01 Thursday, OK1FIG wrote:


Not necessarily. According to the currently valid regulation in OK land we can legally emit up to allowed power for the op's class, in my case it is 1kW. No note about limited ERP for 136 kHz band...   This regulation was already in force when I transmitted from the 150 m high T-ant. No abuse, paradise for LFers.
Someone else here also mentioned that they don't have limited ERP on 136 kHz, I guess it was PA or ON land?
 


Sorry, Petr,I was referring to G amateurs.

Walter G3JKV.

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7985 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 10:35:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 10:35:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 29185 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 10:33:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 10:33:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15p5iy-0001NF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 11:27:28 +0100 Received: from smtp.seznam.cz ([195.119.180.43] helo=email.seznam.cz) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15p5iw-0001N9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 11:27:27 +0100 Received: (qmail 26376 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 10:25:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO OK1FIG) (195.47.69.2) by smtp.seznam.cz with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 10:25:49 -0000 Message-ID: <026201c14cbf$4b630690$1601a8c0@cz.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly \(OK1FIG\)" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.0.2.1.2.20011004082609.00a1f080@mail.pncl.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Big/small antennas Date: Thu, 4 Oct 2001 12:28:22 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Not necessarily. According to the currently valid regulation in OK land we can legally emit up to allowed power for the op's class, in my case it is 1kW. No note about limited ERP for 136 kHz band...   This regulation was already in force when I transmitted from the 150 m high T-ant. No abuse, paradise for LFers.
Someone else here also mentioned that they don't have limited ERP on 136 kHz, I guess it was PA or ON land?
 
73 Petr OK1FIG
 
PS.: I myself don't emit more than some 300 mW from the cottage, I am sure...
 

Final word - the ERP rule is of course open to considerable abuse. The field strength figures produced recently on this reflector seem to indicate that considerably more than 1 watt is being radiated by some people.  Have they got a special licence like the one we got for Puckeridge?

Walter G3JKV.

 
   

 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17537 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 09:01:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 09:01:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 5268 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 08:59:19 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 08:59:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15p49z-0000TF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 09:47:15 +0100 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15p49w-0000TA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 09:47:12 +0100 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (240.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.240]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f948kRu11904 for ; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 09:46:28 +0100 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20011004082609.00a1f080@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 09:51:29 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: Big/small antennas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit This big/small antenna business :

Let's get this straight - what matters is RADIATED power not how big the antenna is.  Radiated power is the ONLY determinant of how far we get . An antenna is only a launching device for em energy and as long as it is capable of launching whatever power we think we need that is all that matters.  Its efficiency is irrelevant if we don't mind how big our electricity bills are and we are able to control the lost energy properly.  One watt from a tiny antenna will get across the Atlantic just as easily as one watt from a huge one.  The big difference is how easy it is to produce that one watt.

Something of a legend has grown up in the amateur community that you need a huge antenna to get anywhere. This originated in the old licensing regs that put a lid on the  DC power you were allowed to use in the final amplifier.  It was easy to measure and when we had inspectors running around they could check it quickly and simply. This put a premium on final amplifier and antenna RF efficiency and  a "big" antenna, at any frequency, was the best way of obtaining maximum ERP.  Hence the big DX names with multi-multi-element HF arrays hundreds of feet in the air. Now the limit is on radiated power which is much harder to measure (see almost any posting on this reflector for the past few years) but gives us the freedom to use any final amplifier power we like to make up for antenna inefficiency.   So if it takes a 100 kW amplifier who cares?  As long, of course, we can control all the flashovers, corona, arcing, melting insulators etc.

To say that a "big" antenna is necessarily better than a "small" one is therefore rubbish. It's only true if you're a professional wanting 100% reliability under all conditions; are prepared to go into mechanical engineering in a big way; pay lots of money and have vast amounts of real estate. Some are, but it's hardly "amateur" radio and what exactly does it prove anyway?  Only what the professionals have known for many years.  Far better to play about with Micky Mouse antennas that no self-respecting professional would dream of using and get an occasional DX contact.

Final word - the ERP rule is of course open to considerable abuse. The field strength figures produced recently on this reflector seem to indicate that considerably more than 1 watt is being radiated by some people.  Have they got a special licence like the one we got for Puckeridge?

Walter G3JKV.

 
   

  From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27766 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 06:53:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 06:53:41 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28503 invoked from network); 4 Oct 2001 06:53:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Oct 2001 06:53:28 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15p2Ip-0007pN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 07:48:15 +0100 Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.39]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15p2Io-0007pI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 04 Oct 2001 07:48:14 +0100 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15p2I9-000FIh-0B; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 06:47:34 +0000 Message-ID: <3BBC07D0.29ECAD04@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 07:55:12 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 136 kHz beacon : Request for Comments References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Claudio wrote: > I have a chance to install a 136 kHz QRSS beacon in ARI Milano radio > club (north Italy). > > Before to propose the project to radio club I ask LF peaple for some > comments: > 1 - This beacon may be useful? > 2 - If yes, what frequency may be preferred? > 3 - The choice to start beacon at sunset and stop it at sunrise may > be a good choice? Hi Claudio, The Reflector seems to be having trouble relaying my messages. Let's see if this one gets through . . . Covering each point in turn: 1. - I would not find it useful, as I use existing out-of-band signals to check my receiver, etc. 2. - The disadvantages of beaconing within our tiny amateur allocation have been well-documented via this Reflector in the past. If you must do it, the extreme band edges are to be preferred (135.7-135.8 and 137.7-137.8). 3. - The greater the period of operation, the greater will be the probability that the beacon will cause QRM to local stations. 23:30 to 04:00 UTC seems like a reasonable compromise. Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2843 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2001 22:46:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Oct 2001 22:46:44 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1057 invoked from network); 3 Oct 2001 22:44:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Oct 2001 22:44:28 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ouai-0002xu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2001 23:34:12 +0100 Received: from mail-6.tiscalinet.it ([195.130.225.152] helo=mail.tiscalinet.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ouah-0002xn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 03 Oct 2001 23:34:11 +0100 Received: from orion.pii.net (62.11.52.19) by mail.tiscalinet.it (5.5.044) id 3BAC372C00323FDC for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 00:32:59 +0200 Received: (from clapo@localhost) by orion.pii.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id AAA00370 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 4 Oct 2001 00:15:12 +0200 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on Linux X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 04 Oct 2001 00:15:11 +0200 (CEST) From: "Claudio" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 136 kHz beacon : Request for Comments Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: HI Lowfers. I have a chance to install a 136 kHz QRSS beacon in ARI Milano radio club (north Italy). Before to propose the project to radio club I ask LF peaple for some comments: 1 - This beacon may be useful? 2 - If yes, what frequency may be preferred? 3 - The choice to start beacon at sunset and stop it at sunrise may be a good choice? All other comments and suggestions are well accepted. 73 de Claudio ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Claudio Pozzi http://www.qsl.net/ik2pii happy Linux user E-Mail: Claudio Date: 04-Oct-01 Time: 00:05:46 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29908 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2001 22:55:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Oct 2001 22:55:39 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4451 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2001 22:53:25 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Oct 2001 22:53:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15oYM4-0005t8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Oct 2001 23:49:36 +0100 Received: from siaag1ad.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15oYM3-0005t3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Oct 2001 23:49:35 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ad.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id SAA15583 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 2 Oct 2001 18:48:54 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 18:48:25 -0400 From: "boffin1" Subject: Re: LF: Re: 73KHz beacon To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200110021848_MC3-E1DB-FE78@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: < The reference antenna is a so-called an isotropic radiator, a non existing antenna that will equally radiate in all directions. Any 'real world' antenna will have a certain directivity....> A toroidal coil placed between two aluminium discs, fed between one end of the toroid and the lower disc and with the other end of the toroid connected to the upper plate, can be adjusted to radiate equally in all directions, the phase varies with time but not with space. One can also achieve this property with configurations of contra-wound toroids. 73, Roger, G2AJV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3335 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2001 18:00:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Oct 2001 18:00:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 20580 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2001 18:00:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 2 Oct 2001 18:00:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15oTds-0002vV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Oct 2001 18:47:40 +0100 Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15oTdr-0002vQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Oct 2001 18:47:39 +0100 Received: from modem-79.pebble-butterfly.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.49.79] helo=g3aqc) by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15oTdC-000288-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Oct 2001 18:46:59 +0100 Message-ID: <000e01c14b6a$b1220d60$4f31893e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re Flag antenna on Lowfer bands. Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 18:49:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi Paul,
I have been using a EWE Ant. on 136 for the past two years.
The pennant and Flag are modifications of the original EWE,but are not grounded. Since I prefer a grounded ant. on the Low bands I use the EWE.I get a good cardoid pattern which enables me to put a null on the Loran station  in France just 60 miles away. I can fully recomend this ant. although it is quite big ! 300 feet long and 20 feet vert. sections.    73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26450 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2001 17:58:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Oct 2001 17:58:45 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4252 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2001 17:57:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Oct 2001 17:57:29 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15oTfx-0002vl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Oct 2001 18:49:49 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15oTfw-0002vg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Oct 2001 18:49:48 +0100 Received: from ldsas01-65-116-64.cw-visp.com ([212.137.116.64] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15oTWc-0007Cx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Oct 2001 17:40:10 +0000 Message-ID: <3BB9F013.6F0BCDA1@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 17:49:23 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: big sig Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: OH1TN was a big sig yesterday evening at 1829z 589 each way. de G3KEV/MAL From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1004 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2001 15:16:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Oct 2001 15:16:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 28755 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2001 15:16:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 2 Oct 2001 15:16:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15oR8B-0001K0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Oct 2001 16:06:47 +0100 Received: from smtp-j.snet.net ([204.60.6.55] helo=smtp.snet.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15oR89-0001Jv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Oct 2001 16:06:46 +0100 Received: from cianciolo (97.79.252.64.snet.net [64.252.79.97] (may be forged)) by smtp.snet.net (8.12.0/8.12.0/SNET-mx-1.1.1.1/D-1.1.1.1/O-1.1.1.1) with SMTP id f92F60fb014150 for ; Tue, 2 Oct 2001 11:06:01 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <002401c14b54$0919b3e0$6901a8c0@cianciolo> From: "PC" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <003c01c14b4d$b6fec740$c12cfd3e@compaq> Subject: LF: Re: Flag antenna on Lowfer Band Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 11:07:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Tracey, Thanks for the information. I have just gone to that sight and it looks good. Acouple of questions come to mind. 1)Does the K9AY loose it directional characteristics in the area of VLF? Does it have so little "gain" at those freq. that the antenna becomes the limiting factor in the noise floor as opposed to the natural noise floor of the enviroment? Do you need to constantlt adjust the termination resistor? Thanks... i will look for your response, but I am going back to the article now paulC W1VLF ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tracey Gardner" To: Sent: Tuesday, October 02, 2001 10:22 AM Subject: LF: Flag antenna on Lowfer Band > Hello Paul > > I struggle to understand why people rave about the Flag > and Pennant which are both unidirectional and difficult > to switch direction, when the K9AY has been around for > some little time now. > With the K9AY, even with one loop you've got the ability > to switch between two directions at the flick of a switch, > with a two loop K9AY you've got all four points of the > compass covered. > I've used a K9AY on the NDB bands and down to VLF and it's > a great little performer, have a look at, > > http://www.hard-core-dx.com/nordicdx/antenna/loop/k9ay/ > > 73s Tracey > > tracey.gardner@ntlworld.com > Lincolnshire > U.K. > > >Has anyone used either the flag or the pennant antenna on the lowfe > bands? > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24530 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2001 14:31:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Oct 2001 14:31:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 3724 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2001 14:29:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Oct 2001 14:29:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15oQSC-0000rM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Oct 2001 15:23:24 +0100 Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.47]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15oQSA-0000rG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Oct 2001 15:23:23 +0100 Received: from compaq ([62.253.44.193]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20011002142241.RTWM710.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@compaq> for ; Tue, 2 Oct 2001 15:22:41 +0100 Message-ID: <003c01c14b4d$b6fec740$c12cfd3e@compaq> From: "Tracey Gardner" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Flag antenna on Lowfer Band Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 15:22:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Paul I struggle to understand why people rave about the Flag and Pennant which are both unidirectional and difficult to switch direction, when the K9AY has been around for some little time now. With the K9AY, even with one loop you've got the ability to switch between two directions at the flick of a switch, with a two loop K9AY you've got all four points of the compass covered. I've used a K9AY on the NDB bands and down to VLF and it's a great little performer, have a look at, http://www.hard-core-dx.com/nordicdx/antenna/loop/k9ay/ 73s Tracey tracey.gardner@ntlworld.com Lincolnshire U.K. >Has anyone used either the flag or the pennant antenna on the lowfe bands? From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 681 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2001 13:58:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Oct 2001 13:58:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 28191 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2001 13:57:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 2 Oct 2001 13:57:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15oPzT-0000XA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Oct 2001 14:53:43 +0100 Received: from smtp-j.snet.net ([204.60.6.55] helo=smtp.snet.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15oPzM-0000X2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Oct 2001 14:53:42 +0100 Received: from cianciolo (97.79.252.64.snet.net [64.252.79.97] (may be forged)) by smtp.snet.net (8.12.0/8.12.0/SNET-mx-1.1.1.1/D-1.1.1.1/O-1.1.1.1) with SMTP id f92Dqtfb014332 for ; Tue, 2 Oct 2001 09:52:56 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001901c14b49$d4131240$6901a8c0@cianciolo> From: "PC" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Flag antenna on Lowfer Band Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 09:55:00 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hello FOlks,
 
Has anyone used either the flag or the pennant antenna on the lowfe bands?
 
Check out this link
 
 
I would appreciate any comments.  WIll the antenna work only with less gain?
 
Look at the patterns on these guys
 
PaulC
W1VLF
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25708 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2001 13:13:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Oct 2001 13:13:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 1371 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2001 13:11:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 2 Oct 2001 13:11:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15oPBL-000063-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Oct 2001 14:01:55 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15oPBK-00005y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Oct 2001 14:01:54 +0100 Received: from [62.7.31.25] (helo=default) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15oPAe-00006F-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Oct 2001 14:01:12 +0100 Message-ID: <000101c14b41$c4b2e3a0$191f073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Propagation Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 10:30:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, the Sun is really quite active again at the moment. We received a CME shock front on Monday at about 0900z, which lifted the Kp index to 6 for 6 hours. If this follows my prediction it should lead to ionospheric effects by the weekend (about 4 days after the arrival of the plasma 'glob') This could result in an enhancement of the daytime signal levels and good conditions to Europe again over the 5th, 6th and 7th of October. (see my explanation in the DC Cluster posting). Conversely it will probably lead to increased absorption at night and lower signal levels by 'skywave' accompanied by rapid and deep fading. So if you didn't catch the DX last weekend it might be worth being around next Saturday, morning is usualy looking best. Good Hunting Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28349 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2001 08:45:43 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Oct 2001 08:45:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 17915 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2001 08:44:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Oct 2001 08:44:26 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15oL5x-0005wj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Oct 2001 09:40:05 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15oL5w-0005we-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Oct 2001 09:40:04 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA127240 for ; Tue, 2 Oct 2001 10:39:23 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20011002093749.2d4784e4@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 02 Oct 2001 09:37:49 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: 73KHz beacon In-reply-to: <3BB89B8F.93507C9F@netscapeonline.co.uk> References: <3.0.1.16.20011001084908.2af76e6c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <3.0.1.16.20011001105044.2d67661a@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <3.0.1.16.20011001130655.30f79622@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Mal, At 17:36 1/10/01 +0100, you wrote: >> Unfortunately there is no perfect ground and no lossless loading coil so in >> practice (on 136kHz) a longer antenna will outperform a shorter and the one > >What I have been saying all the time and I am glad you and others realize this >at LAST!!!! I (and probably all the others) have been understanding this all the time. It doesn't change anything on the fact that a lower antenna efficiency can be perfectly compensated by higher power. Remember that we are ERP limited (1 Watt). So if a 'big guy' has 40m high vertical with a lot of toploading (radiation resistance something like 0.5 Ohm) he will have to limit the antennacurrent to about 1.5 A in order not to exceed the 1W ERP limit (assuming 50 Ohm loss this means running only +/- 100 Watt). On the other hand can a 'little boy' who is damned to use a 10m wet string as antenna (radiation resistance only 0.008 Ohm) pump up the power until he achieves an antennacurrent of 11 A. That will probably take a few kW but at the end he will have also 1 Watt ERP. If he is running sufficient power the 'little boy' will be heard as loud as the 'big guy'. The last one will either have to accept this physical facts or have to exceed the 1 W ERP limit (and breaking the law) to overwhelm the 'little boy'. To make a long story short : having a big antenna is a great help to get to the 1 W ERP limit without needing a big PA, but within reasonable limits a smaller antenna can be compensated by running more power. That is the fun (or for some the frustration) due to the 1 Watt ERP limit. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4404 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2001 07:10:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Oct 2001 07:10:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 8455 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2001 07:10:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Oct 2001 07:10:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15oJUZ-0004t3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Oct 2001 07:57:23 +0100 Received: from [195.119.180.43] (helo=email.seznam.cz) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15oJUX-0004sy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Oct 2001 07:57:21 +0100 Received: (qmail 21760 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2001 06:56:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO OK1FIG) (195.47.69.2) by 195.119.180.43 with SMTP; 2 Oct 2001 06:56:32 -0000 Message-ID: <004701c14b0f$66ac6010$1601a8c0@cz.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly \(OK1FIG\)" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: Weekend activity Date: Tue, 2 Oct 2001 08:56:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 6.00.2600.0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all There is an interesting info in this message for me. Jim says that Saturday morning was very noisy and Sunday was much quieter. Me (and I belive Rich too) have opposite experience. Saturday was quiet (and I made a lot of QSOs), it got much worse in the evening, QRN lasted all the Sunday morning and it got better Sunday afternoon. It looks as if the source of QRN moved accross Europe, from the west to the east. BTW, is the QRN same on the land and on the sea? If not, inland coutries like DL, OK, OM, HB9 are bit handicapped. 73 Petr OK1FIG ----- Original Message ----- From: "James Moritz" To: Sent: Monday, October 01, 2001 8:43 PM Subject: LF: Weekend activity > Dear LF Group, > > Weekend activity here: > > On Friday night I was on 71.620k for testing, then some time after > midnight I changed to 71.924k until around 0400 to join G3AQC's > transatlantic beacon. > > Saturday morning was very noisy, and it got worse through the > day. Although there were lots of stations on, I could not copy much > DX under the QRN, although I did work EI0CF who was a strong > signal. I could see OM2TW's signal on the spectrogram screen, but > could not hear it at all. By the evening, I was struggling to copy > G8RW, who is quite local to me. > > On Saturday night I did some more antenna tests on 136.923k > around midnight. This was with about 250mW ERP, although I have > not worked out the figures in detail yet. This is probably what > CT1DRP's plots show, and what DF6NM saw. > > Sunday morning was much quieter, and I could hear OK1FIG call > CQ several times; I replied a number of times, but no QSO. > > On both days I could hear signals centred on about 137.4kHz, > which were a sort of "chirping", a bit like the strong signals just off > the bottom of the band. If they are a new signal on this frequency, > they must be quite distant, since they weren't much above the > noise. > > I have now got FS measurements on 73k as well as 136, and with > the antenna configured as an 8m high inv. L, or as an inverted V > jacked up to 17.5m in the center. I will post more details when I > have worked out the numbers. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12401 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2001 00:06:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Oct 2001 00:06:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 22233 invoked from network); 2 Oct 2001 00:06:04 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Oct 2001 00:06:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15oCzy-0000wt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Oct 2001 01:01:22 +0100 Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.98]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15oCzx-0000uR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 02 Oct 2001 01:01:21 +0100 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.7.) id l.6d.1b380496 (4315) for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 20:00:37 -0400 (EDT) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <6d.1b380496.28ea5da4@aol.com> Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 20:00:36 EDT Subject: LF: FS measurements, EMRP calculations To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 72 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear group, here comes a log of stations received last weekend: UT kHz call dBµV/m dist Friday, 28.9.01: 2204 136.7 OK1FIG +13 376km? beginning of our QSO 2018 OK1FIG +23 end of QSO (nighttime QSB) 2027 136.5 EI0CF +11 2330 71.924 M0BMU ? 841km 2330 71.9215 G3AQC 0.1 Hz DFCW Saturday, 29.9.01: 0925 136.9 OK1FIG +19 stable daytime level 136.66 DL3FDO +23 197km 136.9 PA0BWL +7 474km 136.9 DF0WD +14 357km 137.3 DJ5DI +4 1315 136.83 OM2TW +10 496km? 136.83 DF0WD +15 136.83 SM6PXJ +3 1035km 136.5 G3KEV +9 963km 136.8 DK6NI +28 20km 1435 136.8 OM5CW 2330 135.923 M0BMU +0...+6 QSB Sunday, 30.9.01: 0857 136.59 DL5WF +4 135km? 136.69 G3KEV +6 136.76 OM2TW +7 136.61 OK1FIG +18 0903 136.54 DK6NI +28 20km 136.76 OM2CW +7 136.76 DL3FDO +22 0922 136.76 DJ7RD +26 129km 137.16 carrier 0 FSK bursts 1.8s, bear. 285° 136.68 carrier -1 FSK bursts 40s, bear. 285° 136.549 DCF IM -11 165km (reduced since 22.09.01) 135.36 DCF IM +28 165km 0938 136.6 SM6PXJ -2 0940 136.7 G3KEV +9 136.7 DK3GH +24 23km 136.56 M0BMU +2 1040 137.59 OM2TW +6 QRSS/DFCW QSO 1209 136.7 DK7SU +10 136.9 OZ8NJ +6 436km 1910 138.83 DBF39 +68 310km The fieldstrength measurements were taken from calibrated spectrogram readings and should be accurate to a couple of dB's. Given the distance d from my QTH (JN59NK), you can estimate your radiated power by the formula EMRP /dBW = FS /dBµV/m - 79.55 + 20 lg (d /km) + GL /dB. The additional ground-wave loss GL is generally neglegible for distances up to 100 km. Assuming no ionospheric propagation (which is not valid for long-distance paths, especially in darkness), GL can be estimated from the CCIR ground-wave charts, and for average soil conductivity (land, 3 mS/m) one gets a table like this d/km GL/dB 1 0 100 1 200 3 300 5 400 8 500 9 600 12 800 17 1000 22 1500 31 73 de Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17698 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2001 21:24:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Oct 2001 21:24:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 25193 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2001 21:24:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Oct 2001 21:24:28 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15oASC-0007ql-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 22:18:20 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15oASB-0007qg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 22:18:19 +0100 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15oARW-0004MM-0W for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 22:17:39 +0100 Message-ID: <3BB8DF39.A95563E7@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 22:25:13 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: LF meeting... References: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E0333BF7F@btss103a.swh.sk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rich wrote: > It was a nice weekend. The activity was very good. We made 15 QSOs > (G,DL,OK,HA,YO,OZ). I have worked OZ1KMR as the first QSO between Slovakia > and Denmark. Thank you Henrik. I hope that this meeting will step up the > activity on 136kc in Slovakia. Complete report and some pictures are on > http://www.qsl.net/om2tw. Many thanks for the report and excellent pictures. You have a very comprehensive and attractive LF web site, Rich. I'm sure that we are all delighted to hear your news about the OZ/OM QSO too. Well done on that QSO, and for all the other contacts from the first LF Meeting in Sintava. I heard the CW signals from OM2TW many times over the weekend, at RST 539 to 549 (about the same strength as OK1FIG). Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG IO81PP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9738 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2001 17:59:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Oct 2001 17:59:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 7809 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2001 17:57:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Oct 2001 17:57:13 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15o77X-0005eU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 18:44:47 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15o77V-0005e6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 18:44:46 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15o73E-0005C3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 18:40:20 +0100 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15o73E-0003O2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 18:40:20 +0100 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 18:43:11 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Weekend activity X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Weekend activity here: On Friday night I was on 71.620k for testing, then some time after midnight I changed to 71.924k until around 0400 to join G3AQC's transatlantic beacon. Saturday morning was very noisy, and it got worse through the day. Although there were lots of stations on, I could not copy much DX under the QRN, although I did work EI0CF who was a strong signal. I could see OM2TW's signal on the spectrogram screen, but could not hear it at all. By the evening, I was struggling to copy G8RW, who is quite local to me. On Saturday night I did some more antenna tests on 136.923k around midnight. This was with about 250mW ERP, although I have not worked out the figures in detail yet. This is probably what CT1DRP's plots show, and what DF6NM saw. Sunday morning was much quieter, and I could hear OK1FIG call CQ several times; I replied a number of times, but no QSO. On both days I could hear signals centred on about 137.4kHz, which were a sort of "chirping", a bit like the strong signals just off the bottom of the band. If they are a new signal on this frequency, they must be quite distant, since they weren't much above the noise. I have now got FS measurements on 73k as well as 136, and with the antenna configured as an 8m high inv. L, or as an inverted V jacked up to 17.5m in the center. I will post more details when I have worked out the numbers. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 537 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2001 17:54:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Oct 2001 17:54:34 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 4521 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2001 17:52:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Oct 2001 17:52:25 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15o74J-0005eB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 18:41:27 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15o74H-0005dc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 18:41:25 +0100 Received: from ldsas18-82-133-223.cw-visp.com ([212.137.133.223] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15o6rJ-0007BY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 17:28:02 +0000 Message-ID: <3BB89AD1.10890464@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 17:33:21 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re. 73KHz beacon References: <000c01c149d8$4d263e00$18b3883e@g3aqc> Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit  

Laurie Mayhead wrote:

Hi John and Steve,Many thanks for listening sorry nothing heard.Weather pretty stormy here tonight so will give it a miss.Will try again when conditions improve.Did anyone hear G0UPU
Yes I heard him vy weak but workable. I was qrl and did not call him.
on 136 this morning about 09:00UTC ? I called but no reply.   73s Laurie. 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23617 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2001 17:53:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Oct 2001 17:53:50 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26712 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2001 17:52:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Oct 2001 17:52:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15o74M-0005eH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 18:41:30 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15o74K-0005dd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 18:41:28 +0100 Received: from ldsas18-82-133-223.cw-visp.com ([212.137.133.223] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15o6rN-0007Bm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 17:28:06 +0000 Message-ID: <3BB89B8F.93507C9F@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 17:36:32 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: 73KHz beacon References: <3.0.1.16.20011001084908.2af76e6c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <3.0.1.16.20011001105044.2d67661a@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <3.0.1.16.20011001130655.30f79622@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik Strobbe wrote: > >Rik, thanks for the explanations. > >I would have never imagined that the gain provided by having a radiation > >diagram 'squeezed' in the vertical plane could more than compensate for > >the losses caused by the very short dimensions (compared to the wavelength) > >of the antenna. Today I learnt a new one. TNX. > > Hi Alberto, > > If an short vertical monopole is placed over perfect ground and brought to > resonance with a perfect loadingcoil there are no losses, so its > performance will be independent of its length. It looks a bit strange at > first sight but in the perfect world there are no losses and so every mW > you put into the antenna will be radiated regardless wether the antenna is > 1m or 100m high. > Unfortunately there is no perfect ground and no lossless loading coil so in > practice (on 136kHz) a longer antenna will outperform a shorter and the one What I have been saying all the time and I am glad you and others realize this at LAST!!!! > > who can put a lambda/2 dipole at lambda/4 height will have the > super-antenna (but this antenna just doesn't fit in my back yard). > > 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18909 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2001 17:36:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Oct 2001 17:36:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10252 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2001 17:35:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Oct 2001 17:35:52 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15o6lo-0005Us-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 18:22:20 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15o6ln-0005UN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 18:22:19 +0100 Received: from ldsas01-65-116-88.cw-visp.com ([212.137.116.88] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15o6Yi-0006MF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 17:08:49 +0000 Message-ID: <3BB89738.E05E2C67@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 17:18:01 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: A new one References: <003201c149c9$ed240720$d91b07d5@dr.nabe> Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit  

Reiner Nabe wrote:

 Hi all,a new one from Berlin is  QRV, DK7SU, -Rainer -I have worked him on Sutarday and Sunday, rst 549 nr Franfurt.73 ,DL3FDO
Hello Reiner
I heard both you and DK7SU working and u mention hearing me lower in freq. I hope I did not cause u a problem with qrm. Although propogation was reasonable over the weekend the local wx was a problem for me with heavy rain/overcast and very windy with a lot of rain static/qrn
Most DL stns copy me around 569/579 but you seem to have a problem, perhaps a bad location with heavy local qrm. We have worked before and I often hear you but you seldom reply to anyone except local stns.
73 de Mal/G3KEV/IO94SH
 
 
 
 
 
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18842 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2001 16:26:21 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Oct 2001 16:26:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3365 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2001 16:26:02 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Oct 2001 16:26:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15o5l4-0004tq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 17:17:30 +0100 Received: from ns3.swh.sk ([192.108.125.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15o5l2-0004ls-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 17:17:28 +0100 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes.swh.sk [192.108.125.60]) by ns3.swh.sk (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f91GFvk29112 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 18:15:57 +0200 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id SAA13155 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 18:13:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 18:13:03 +0200 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E0333BF7F@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: LF meeting... Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 18:12:58 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi LF-ers It was a nice weekend. The activity was very good. We made 15 QSOs (G,DL,OK,HA,YO,OZ). I have worked OZ1KMR as the first QSO between Slovakia and Denmark. Thank you Henrik. I hope that this meeting will step up the activity on 136kc in Slovakia. Complete report and some pictures are on http://www.qsl.net/om2tw. Best regards...73 de Rich OM2TW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17197 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2001 12:22:00 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Oct 2001 12:22:00 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 15597 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2001 12:21:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Oct 2001 12:21:41 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15o20P-0002P3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 13:17:05 +0100 Received: from public2.thorcom.com ([212.172.148.20] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15o20O-0002Om-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 13:17:04 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by public2.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15o1Xj-0008DP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 12:47:28 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA159740 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 14:08:28 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20011001130655.30f79622@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 13:06:55 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: 73KHz beacon In-reply-to: <3BB85281.93CDD0D8@usa.net> References: <3.0.1.16.20011001084908.2af76e6c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <3.0.1.16.20011001105044.2d67661a@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >Rik, thanks for the explanations. >I would have never imagined that the gain provided by having a radiation >diagram 'squeezed' in the vertical plane could more than compensate for >the losses caused by the very short dimensions (compared to the wavelength) >of the antenna. Today I learnt a new one. TNX. Hi Alberto, If an short vertical monopole is placed over perfect ground and brought to resonance with a perfect loadingcoil there are no losses, so its performance will be independent of its length. It looks a bit strange at first sight but in the perfect world there are no losses and so every mW you put into the antenna will be radiated regardless wether the antenna is 1m or 100m high. Unfortunately there is no perfect ground and no lossless loading coil so in practice (on 136kHz) a longer antenna will outperform a shorter and the one who can put a lambda/2 dipole at lambda/4 height will have the super-antenna (but this antenna just doesn't fit in my back yard). 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22139 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2001 11:40:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Oct 2001 11:40:40 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23413 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2001 11:40:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Oct 2001 11:40:27 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15o1N4-00024Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 12:36:26 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15o1N3-00024E-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 12:36:25 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15o1JD-00071c-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 12:32:27 +0100 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15o1JC-0002JG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 12:32:26 +0100 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 12:35:22 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: ERP, etc X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF group, The directive gain of an ideal short monopole over a ground plane is 2.62dB over that of an ideal half wave dipole in free space. This sounds wrong at first, but remember that the ground plane plays a part - while the dipole is radiating both "up" and "down", the monopole radiates "up" only since the signals do not penetrate the ground plane. In this sense, the monopole-on-ground-plane is more directive than a dipole, and so has higher gain. A vertical half wave dipole would in reality be affected by the ground plane too, and would have gain over both the short monopole and a dipole in free space, the gain and radiation pattern depending on the height above ground. With regard to practical LF antennas, the directive gain takes no account of the efficiency of the antenna, so the overall gain of a real monopole, taking losses into account, will be much smaller than the theoretical ideal dipole - for the antenna I have been testing on 136k around -33dB. The defenition of ERP used in the UK amateur radio regs (and elsewhere) is the amount of power fed into an ideal dipole in free space that will produce the same field strength at the same distance as the real antenna. This is just a theoretical construct that takes no account of physical reality, and a paticular value of ERP (P watts) is just specifying that the field strength at d metres distance from the antenna is E=7sqrt(P)/d. So if you measure a field strength E at distance d, your ERP is P=(Ed)^2/49. At VHF and higher, a reasonable approximation to a half wave dipole in free space is a useful practical reference antenna, but obviously not at LF. At LF, a reasonable approximation to an ideal short monopole is a more practical proposition, so "effective monopole radiated power", EMRP, is a term sometimes used. In this case, E = 9.5sqrt(P)/d. In either case stating the ERP or EMRP is effectively stating the field strength with respect to distance from the antenna, and says nothing about how that field was produced. This is useful because it gives a measure of the signal that is received, which is, after all, what is important. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3672 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2001 11:36:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Oct 2001 11:36:38 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 27882 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2001 11:36:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Oct 2001 11:36:19 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15o1HX-0001wU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 12:30:43 +0100 Received: from e24.nc.us.ibm.com ([32.97.136.230]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15o1HV-0001vv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 12:30:42 +0100 Received: from southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.208]) by e24.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA26992 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 06:23:57 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss9.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.75]) by southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v4.97.1) with ESMTP id f91BP1X46352 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 07:25:02 -0400 Message-ID: <3BB85281.93CDD0D8@usa.net> Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 13:24:49 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: 73KHz beacon References: <3.0.1.16.20011001084908.2af76e6c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <3.0.1.16.20011001105044.2d67661a@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik Strobbe wrote: > [...] > A short vertical monopole has a gain of 4.77dBi / 2.62dBd because of its > radiation pattern, especially the rather 'sharp' vertical pattern. > This gain of 4.77dBi assumes a perfect ground, so no losses at all. > [...] Rik, thanks for the explanations. I would have never imagined that the gain provided by having a radiation diagram 'squeezed' in the vertical plane could more than compensate for the losses caused by the very short dimensions (compared to the wavelength) of the antenna. Today I learnt a new one. TNX. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26284 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2001 11:01:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Oct 2001 11:01:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 13285 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2001 10:59:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Oct 2001 10:59:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15o0iU-0001cH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 11:54:30 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15o0iS-0001bo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 11:54:28 +0100 Received: from [213.122.92.7] (helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15o0eO-0003MX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 11:50:16 +0100 Message-ID: <000301c14a66$4ec2e680$075c7ad5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots for Sept 29/30th at GB7DXM Date: Mon, 1 Oct 2001 00:38:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, there was quite a lot of activity this weekendand it seems there were some new stations to be 'winkled out'. I am particularly interested in the proagation conditions this weekend. Mal posted to say that it was good on Saturday. There was a small (M2.0) X ray flare at about 1100z which lasted for a few minutes, but I did not see an correlation in the strength enhancement of DCF39 on Brian's plot for Saturday morning. However there was possibly another effect active. We have noticed that after a geomagnetic storm, which injects ions into the ionosphere, it is often possible to hear CFH (when active) in daytime. John VE1ZJ has reported DCF39 being enhanced in daytime also during these events. This effect last for the majority of the daylight hours not just a short period as with an X-ray flare enhancement, where the signal profile closely follows the X-ray flux profile. The level of this daytime enhancement never reaches the normal night-time levels. However conversly the nightime signals are much reduced in strength from normal at this time. I had not seriously considered the possibility of shorter distance effects though I have discussed it with Steve GW4ALG. Brian's Saturday 29th morning plot for DCF39 shows a distictly higher level than normal (6 to 10 DB) with a strange sharp fade at one point ( there are normally no fades of this kind on the daytime plot). The night-time signal is about 10dB below average. It would seem that the ion injection during a magnetic storm can produce useful daytime signal enhacements at inter European distances due to daytime 'skywave' (say single hop). This occurs not less than three days and more usually 4 days after a storm (shown by a Kp index or 5 or above). The effect can continue for several days before it dies away, and may be bolstered by further storms. The length of time enhancement persists seems to be dependent upon the violence of the storm (enhancement will occur for many days after a Kp value of 8 or 9). Unfortunately for those of us in close proximity to stations like DCF39 we cannot use them as indicators. One needs to be at a distance where there is a substantial difference between daytime and night-time strengths of the chosen beacon station. This ensures that there is a substantial ionosperic wave component. In the case of DCF39 this probably means 1500kms or more (Brian is 1950 kms) My conclusion....maybe this was a good propagation day (or two)...maybe we should watch out for them in future. Unfortunaely the noise level was quite high this weekend and I heard Mal on Sunday struggling to pull through DJ1NL, I could see the trace and detect an audible signal but could not read it at all for weak background TV qrm signal almost on the frequency. It seems from the listing below, Mal didn't quite make it as it would seem to be DJ1RL he was working. I believe these are signals that may have been slightly enhanced. I also saw a DFCW signal from DF8ZR at 0800z on Sunday at 'O', and saw Markus on DFCW who may have been working Rich, but I saw no trace of Rich on FFTDSP4 and did not have time to start up the machine with Argo installed. Cluster spots follow.... 136.5 PA0BWL 30-Sep-2001 1413Z in QSO F6BWO 137.0 DL3FDO 30-Sep-2001 1340Z clg F6BWO 137.0 DL3FDO 30-Sep-2001 1341Z clg F6BWO 137.0 F6BWO 30-Sep-2001 1339Z 137.0 F6BWO 30-Sep-2001 1340Z 136.5 G3KEV 30-Sep-2001 1318Z DJ1RL calling him 136.5 G3KEV 30-Sep-2001 1319Z DJ1RL calling him 136.6 OK1FIG 30-Sep-2001 1053Z cq 136.6 OK1FIG 30-Sep-2001 1053Z cq 137.6 DF6NM 30-Sep-2001 1049Z clg OM2TW in DFCW 137.6 DF6NM 30-Sep-2001 1050Z clg OM2TW in DFCW 137.6 OM2TW 30-Sep-2001 1039Z cq qrss 137.580 kHz 136.8 DJ7RD 30-Sep-2001 0929Z 136.8 DL3FDO 30-Sep-2001 0916Z in qso OM5CW 136.7 OM5CW 30-Sep-2001 0900Z hr signal like a "M.nk." 136.7 OM2TW 30-Sep-2001 0854Z & om5cw;& Low Frq.meetinG 136.7 OZ1KMR 30-Sep-2001 0850Z in qso OM2TW 136.5 DK7SU 30-Sep-2001 0845Z cq 136.8 DK6NI 30-Sep-2001 0828Z clg OM2TW 137.7 DF8ZR 30-Sep-2001 0802Z CQ in DFCW 136.6 OK1FIG 30-Sep-2001 0727Z cq 136.6 DK7SU 30-Sep-2001 0723Z clg OK1FIG 137.6 OM5CW 30-Sep-2001 0722Z cq 136.7 YO2IS 30-Sep-2001 0703Z cq 136.5 OK1FIG 30-Sep-2001 0639Z 136.7 OM2TW 30-Sep-2001 0555Z 136.6 OM5CW 29-Sep-2001 1742Z cq 136.5 OM5CW 29-Sep-2001 1549Z CQ 137.6 OM2TW 29-Sep-2001 1453Z cq qrss 136.8 OM2TW 29-Sep-2001 1423Z cq 137.7 DF6NM 29-Sep-2001 1419Z cq qrss 136.5 DF0WD 29-Sep-2001 1309Z vy loud, jo42fd(->jo32qg 136.5 DJ7RD 29-Sep-2001 1223Z clg G3KEV 136.7 EI0CF 29-Sep-2001 1147Z sri vy vy weak 136.6 G3YXM 29-Sep-2001 1119Z solid copy 136.8 OM2TW 29-Sep-2001 1114Z now hr gd copy- sri Rich ha 136.4 DJ7RD 29-Sep-2001 1046Z in qso F6BWO 136.6 OM2TW 29-Sep-2001 1030Z loud cq cq 137.0 DK7SU 29-Sep-2001 1025Z a new one on LF 136.6 DL3FDO 29-Sep-2001 0815Z clg OK1FIG 136.6 OK1FIG 29-Sep-2001 0805Z 136.5 G3KEV 28-Sep-2001 1600Z in QSO with ei0cf 136.6 DL3FDO 27-Sep-2001 1641Z cq 136.6 DL3FDO 24-Sep-2001 1603Z weak but readably cq 136.6 WHO 23-Sep-2001 1326Z station CQing, but too weak 136.6 ON5ND 23-Sep-2001 1226Z loud, cq cq 136.7 G3KEV 23-Sep-2001 1159Z cq cq 136.8 OM2TW 23-Sep-2001 1137Z 136.6 DL3FDO 23-Sep-2001 1129Z clg OM2TW 136.4 EI0CF 23-Sep-2001 1059Z wkg G3AQC 136.6 LX1UN 22-Sep-2001 1931Z G3NYK de GB7MRS 30-Sep-2001 0927Z > There are some interesting new calls in there I see. Cheers all and Good DX de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21270 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2001 10:31:21 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Oct 2001 10:31:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16582 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2001 10:31:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Oct 2001 10:31:07 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15o0HE-0001Jc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 11:26:20 +0100 Received: from public1.thorcom.com ([212.172.148.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15o0HD-0001JT-01 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 11:26:19 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by public1.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.20 #1) id 15nzp9-0003Rp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 10:57:19 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA43974 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 11:52:17 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20011001105044.2d67661a@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 10:50:44 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: 73KHz beacon In-reply-to: <3BB82A2E.63FAEA93@usa.net> References: <3.0.1.16.20011001084908.2af76e6c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Alberto and group, A short vertical monopole has a gain of 4.77dBi / 2.62dBd because of its radiation pattern, especially the rather 'sharp' vertical pattern. This gain of 4.77dBi assumes a perfect ground, so no losses at all. I believe that there is a lot of confusion between the terms gain (or directivity) and efficiency : Gain (directivity) is what a certain antenna 'wins' because of the directivity in the radiation pattern. The reference antenna is a so-called isotropic radiator, a non existing antenna that will equally radiate in all directions. Any 'real world' antenna will have a certain directivity and thus a gain over this isotropic radiator (so you cannot have a negative gain in dBi). Efficiency is another thing, it is the ratio between the power you put into an antenna system and the power that is radiated. Assume you have a short vertical with a radiation resistance of 0.05 Ohm and the antenna system has a loss of 50 Ohm then the efficiency is 0.1% or -30dB. Any real world antenna will have an efficiency of less than 100% (or less than 0dB). Yet another thing is the effective radiated power, this is the product of gain, efficiency and the power you put into the antenna system. So if you put 200W (= 23dBW) in an antenna with a gain of 4.77dBi and an efficiency of -30dB the EIRP will be -2.23dBW (600mW), the ERP will be -4.38dBW (365mW). This is the theoretical (calculated) ERP, as mentioned in previous mails the real ERP will be most likely 3-6dB lower. For small antennas in an urban or forrested environement the difference might be even more. In for the above expamle one could expect a real ERP of 180mW in the best case, 50mW or less in the worst case. 73, Rik ON7YD At 10:32 1/10/01 +0200, you wrote: >Rik Strobbe wrote: > >> [...] >> The gain of a short vertical is 4.77dBi or 2.62dBd. >> [...] > >Hi Rik and the group, > maybe today I am denser than the usual, but, how can a short vertical >monopole have a gain when compared to a dipole (I suppose here a lambda/2 dipole) ? >I would have intuitively thought that a short vertical monopole has a loss >wrt to a full size dipole. Please enlighten me, thanks. > >73 Alberto I2PHD > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9693 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2001 08:43:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Oct 2001 08:43:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 10174 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2001 08:42:58 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Oct 2001 08:42:58 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15nya4-0000EQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 09:37:40 +0100 Received: from public1.thorcom.com ([212.172.148.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15nya3-0000EE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 09:37:39 +0100 Received: from e31.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.129] helo=e31.bld.us.ibm.com) by public1.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.20 #1) id 15nyWZ-0003Ma-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 09:34:03 +0100 Received: from westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com [9.99.140.22]) by e31.bld.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA37282 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 04:30:37 -0400 Received: from usa.net (ss9.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.75]) by westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v4.97.1) with ESMTP id f918WvU143992 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 02:32:58 -0600 Message-ID: <3BB82A2E.63FAEA93@usa.net> Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 10:32:46 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: 73KHz beacon References: <3.0.1.16.20011001084908.2af76e6c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik Strobbe wrote: > [...] > The gain of a short vertical is 4.77dBi or 2.62dBd. > [...] Hi Rik and the group, maybe today I am denser than the usual, but, how can a short vertical monopole have a gain when compared to a dipole (I suppose here a lambda/2 dipole) ? I would have intuitively thought that a short vertical monopole has a loss wrt to a full size dipole. Please enlighten me, thanks. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12643 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2001 08:10:45 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Oct 2001 08:10:45 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10194 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2001 08:08:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Oct 2001 08:08:31 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15nxyv-0008JK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 08:59:17 +0100 Received: from public1.thorcom.com ([212.172.148.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15nxyu-0008JD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 08:59:16 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by public1.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.20 #1) id 15nxvU-0003Kd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 08:55:44 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA188516 for ; Mon, 1 Oct 2001 09:50:42 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20011001084908.2af76e6c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 01 Oct 2001 08:49:08 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re.73KHz beacon In-reply-to: <001a01c148e2$565e1660$438f883e@g3aqc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >However I am a bit confused here after reading Dicks comments on your >marathon tests,in which he mentions 2.62db gain for a monopole. If this is >correct then the loss due to the environment is 5.62db not 3db. Hello Laurie and the others, There seems to be a bit of confusion about the 'real ERP'. As far as I get it you have to multiply the calculated radiated power (from the formula P = I^2*R with R = radiation resistance and I = antenna current) with the antenna gain. The gain of a short vertical is 4.77dBi or 2.62dBd. So assuming you put 2A into an antenna with a radiation resistance of 0.05 Ohm, you will radiate a power of 200mW. If the antenna is a short monopole the (theoretical) ERP will be 366mW (ERP has a half-wave dipole as reference) and the EIRP will be even 600mW (EIRP has an isotropic antenna as reference). CCIR Rec. 561-2 further defines EMRP where an short vertical monopole is the reference, so in the above case you would have 200mW EMRP. All this values are a bit theoretical as measurements performed by several hams show that the real ERP in most cases is 3-6dB below the calculated ERP. CEPT/ERC Recommendation 62-01 E (Mainz 1997) says : "That the band 135.7-137.8 kHz may be used with a maximum e.r.p. of 1 Watt on a secondary basis by the Amateur Service in CEPT countries." So they take ERP as a reference what means that we can run 1W ERP = 1.64W EIRP = 0.547W EMRP. Assming that the real ERP for any 'amateur sized' antenna will be at least 3 to 6dB below the theoretical ERP the radiated power (based on P = i^2*R) will have to exceed 1 to 2 Watt before you will reach the 1W ERP limit. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10063 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2001 02:37:52 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Oct 2001 02:37:52 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9221 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2001 02:37:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Oct 2001 02:37:33 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15nsec-0005AC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 03:17:58 +0100 Received: from mail9.wlv.netzero.net ([209.247.163.66]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15nsea-00052U-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 01 Oct 2001 03:17:57 +0100 Received: (qmail 29396 invoked from network); 1 Oct 2001 02:09:30 -0000 Received: from dialup-63.214.102.128.dial1.boston1.level3.net (HELO lazzo) (63.214.102.128) by mail9.wlv.netzero.net with SMTP; 1 Oct 2001 02:09:30 -0000 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20010930220917.010d68a8@pop.netzero.net> X-Sender: w1jhj@pop.netzero.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 30 Sep 2001 22:09:17 -0400 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Jonathan Jesse" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re.73KHz beacon In-reply-to: <01c149b9$f8c32300$0be1accf@eng-laptop> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: No copy here as well. DCF77 on 77.5 had a nice signal as well as DCF39 on 138.83. The usual EU LW broadcasters were in there as well. As a matter of fact, 77 and 39 are looking good right now. Things will only get better as we get into the season. Thanks for trying Laurie. Jon W1JHJ At 10:12 AM 9/30/01 -0400, you wrote: >Laurie, et al: > >Negative copy on 71.9215 kHz Saturday night / Sunday morning. Very noisy >here after sunset -- storms off the coast, I believe. The temp did get down >to +4 overnight, so we're at least headed toward better conditions. > >John Andrews, W1TAG > > > > --------------------------------------------------------------- NetZero Platinum Only $9.95 per month! Sign up in September to win one of 30 Hawaiian Vacations for 2! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97