From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2950 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2001 14:02:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Aug 2001 14:02:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 6399 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2001 14:00:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 31 Aug 2001 14:00:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15comX-0000Uy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 14:56:25 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout06.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.19] helo=mailout06.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15comW-0000Ut-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 14:56:24 +0100 Received: from fwd07.sul.t-online.de by mailout06.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 15cols-0002vp-00; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:55:44 +0200 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.157.30.165]) by fwd07.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 15cole-0YB0saC; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:55:30 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000a01c131a7$c3ebe240$6fff3c3f@mstubbs> Subject: Re: LF: LF Receiver X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:55:30 +0200 Message-ID: <15cole-0YB0saC@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Michael Stubbs-Race schrieb: > The Yaesu FT-767GX does not appear to have lp filtering for medium wave band, > tunes well below the 100 K mark and is very stable. Does anyone else have > experience using this rig for LF receiving? > > Mike VK2ASR > Hi Mike, yes, the ft767gx is my allround-trc and lf-rx. it is used for ham-web 9k6 on 70cm, high speed qsk cw on 40m (extern keyer) etc. and for receiving purposes on lf as well. on lf u have to plug a 100% matched antenna. u have to measure the ant input Z of ur 767. it is not 50 ohm (same all the other rx of other types, new or old ones) and it is differ from qrg to qrg ! u should use the attenuator with care. it produces IMs which are not heard if the att. is off. normally it is vice versa. it has only a LPF from 1.9MHz down. conc. the stability in qrg: u can`t (for example) make ARGO- or SpecLab- screenshots. the signal traces look like "Lämmerschwänze" (in english "lambtails" ?). u can not read exactly the rx-qrg from the 767-display. but that is neccessary if u want to find the emission of a announced signal (beacon) on lf or if u want to use the 767 as part of an exciter. In that case u have to use the substitution methode (reading the qrg from the display of a counter). all reasons for my buying the ft1000mp. regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6115 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2001 13:34:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Aug 2001 13:34:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 13733 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2001 13:32:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 31 Aug 2001 13:32:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15coDD-0000Bk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 14:19:55 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from e33.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.131] helo=e33.bld.us.ibm.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15coDB-0000Bf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 14:19:54 +0100 Received: from westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com [9.99.140.22]) by e33.bld.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA41282 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:16:55 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss6.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.71]) by westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v4.97.1) with ESMTP id f7VDHnw201206 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 07:17:50 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B8F8E79.79A75B2F@usa.net> Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 15:17:45 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Receiver References: <003e01c130d4$30973360$7798fea9@host.telepac.pt> <3B8E1787.4FB4EC0D@usa.net> <00a601c1316f$0791a180$d3331997@KOSOVEUALESSANDRO> <3.0.1.16.20010831084215.29cf65f4@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik Strobbe wrote: > Hello Alberto and Alessandro, > > The fact that a RX has a 'lazy' S-meter doesn't mean that it is a poor RX. > A correct S-meter is nice to give exact reports, but what really counts is > the sensitivity and good IM behaviour of a receiver. Hi Rik, yes, of course, you are quite right. But lacking on my side a direct experience of that rig, I used the available data to try to formulate a thumb-estimate. Ideally, a good S-meter should occasionally flicker on the noise produced by a 50 ohm resistor at room temperature placed across the antenna input. The AGC action should however enter into play only after a given threshold. But this would be to ask too much to a receiver. After all, they aren't measurement instrumentation... I think the only calibration the manufactures do is to set the S-meter indication at S9 with 50 uV input at 14 MHz. Any other reading is totally unreliable. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28809 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2001 11:36:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Aug 2001 11:36:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 7044 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2001 11:35:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 31 Aug 2001 11:35:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cmRt-0007bf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:26:57 +0100 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cmRr-0007ba-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:26:56 +0100 Received: from [213.122.230.4] (helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15cmR8-00030z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:26:10 +0100 Message-ID: <001401c1320f$74998180$04e67ad5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: UK TV Interference on 136 Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 12:22:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, this is mainly of interest to UK amateurs. Everyone quoted the EMC regulations when we talk about interference.....BUT if you look at your TV licence , on the reverse side at the lower LHS is says " You must not cause any interference to any other radio or television reception with your television receiving apparatur. " Thus all these radiating TVs are causing their owner to break their TV licence conditions!! Note it does not say "UNDUE interference" as it used to on licences in the 1960s, nor does it mention BROADCAST repception. I think that recourse should be made to the dealers in these cases and not to the RA or the conditions will be rapidly removed to take away the loophole. This would also be valid in Bob's case, Steve, as even if running a nonterestrial system you must have a licence. I suggest Bob could employ this against NTL. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27998 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2001 09:15:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Aug 2001 09:15:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 1928 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2001 09:13:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 31 Aug 2001 09:13:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ckCS-0006JW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 10:02:52 +0100 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ckCR-0006JR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 10:02:51 +0100 Received: from boxernet.demon.co.uk ([194.222.47.214] helo=TRIXY) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15ckBi-000E6R-0A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 09:02:07 +0000 From: "Michael Probert" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Amidon toroids Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 10:01:04 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-reply-to: <5.0.2.1.0.20010830161503.00a89e50@127.0.0.1> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Andrew, This firm stocks a good range of Amidon ferrite rings- JAB Electronic Components PO Box 5774 Birmingham B44 8PJ e mail Peter@JAB.demon.co.uk His catalogue is currently out of print but he does reply promptly to e mails Best regards Mike GW4HXO. >>>>>>>>>Does anyone know of a source of Amidon ferrite toroids in the UK? Thanks in advance 73 Andrew G8AXO<<<<<<<<<<<<< From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7955 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2001 09:10:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Aug 2001 09:10:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 27386 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2001 09:08:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 31 Aug 2001 09:08:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cjzH-00069Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 09:49:15 +0100 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cjzF-00069U-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 09:49:14 +0100 Received: from boxernet.demon.co.uk ([194.222.47.214] helo=TRIXY) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15cjyZ-000Ao8-0A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:48:32 +0000 From: "Michael Probert" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: RE: QRM from TV Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 09:47:33 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-reply-to: <3B8EA961.B543B8D9@alg.demon.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks to G0MRF/G3NYK/G3YXM & GW4ALG for prompt replies. Steve, GW4ALG wrote . >>>>>>>>>While you still have that rogue LF transmitter (cleverly disguised as a TV receiver), is there any chance of doing some quick tests for future reference? For example: - does the noise reduce when you unplug the TV antenna? <<<<<<<<<< NO. - does switching the TV to 'standby' make any difference?<<<<<<<<<< Received: (qmail 23238 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2001 07:54:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Aug 2001 07:54:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 25136 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2001 07:52:47 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 31 Aug 2001 07:52:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ciyC-0005Sn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:44:04 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ciyB-0005Si-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:44:03 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA314832 for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 09:43:20 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010831084215.29cf65f4@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:42:15 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Receiver In-reply-to: <3B8E6F4E.76B0679F@usa.net> References: <003e01c130d4$30973360$7798fea9@host.telepac.pt> <3B8E1787.4FB4EC0D@usa.net> <00a601c1316f$0791a180$d3331997@KOSOVEUALESSANDRO> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Alberto and Alessandro, The fact that a RX has a 'lazy' S-meter doesn't mean that it is a poor RX. A correct S-meter is nice to give exact reports, but what really counts is the sensitivity and good IM behaviour of a receiver. I am using a Kenwood TS440 that is rather sensitive and has a good IM behaviour, but in the original state the only signal that could move my S-meter was DCF39. But inside the TS440 if found a potmeter to adjust the S-meter range, so now S9 is correct at 136kHz (and daytime noiselevel peaks S7 on 80m ... but who cares). Of course the receiver hasn't become any better by this, but now the stronger ham stations can move the meter. 73, Rik ON7YD At 18:52 30/08/01 +0200, you wrote: >Alessandro - IW3SGT wrote: > >> Hi all, >> >> I have tested my IC746 SMETER in the 30kHz-1599 kHz >> >> follow this link: >> http://www.qsl.net/iw3sgt/Prj/SMETER_IC746.html >> > >If I read correctly that table, to have an indication of S1 at 140 kHz, >you need 39 dBuV, which correspond roughly to 89 uV. >Isn't that a bit too much ? This would confirm what my friend said. > >73 Alberto I2PHD > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20784 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2001 00:30:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Aug 2001 00:30:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 3653 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2001 00:29:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 31 Aug 2001 00:29:11 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cc7R-0001UN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 01:25:09 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail9.wlv.netzero.net ([209.247.163.66]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cc7Q-0001UI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 01:25:08 +0100 Received: (qmail 12279 invoked from network); 31 Aug 2001 00:24:22 -0000 Received: from dialup-63.214.66.97.dial1.boston1.level3.net (HELO lazzo) (63.214.66.97) by mail9.wlv.netzero.net with SMTP; 31 Aug 2001 00:24:22 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20010830202245.01c5b25c@pop.netzero.net> X-Sender: w1jhj@pop.netzero.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:22:45 -0400 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, lowfer@qth.net From: "Jonathan Jesse" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Receiver/IC 746 In-reply-to: <3B8E1787.4FB4EC0D@usa.net> References: <003e01c130d4$30973360$7798fea9@host.telepac.pt> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >Don't have numbers for the IC-746, but a friend OM that owns one >tells me that it is deaf as a doorknob on the LF band. > >73 Alberto I2PHD I looked at the block diagram of my IC-746. It shows an attenuator that is switched in for Band 0 which is .03 to 1.6mhz. Further down the line, it shows another attenuator which is not switched. I then looked at the schematic for the RF unit and found the HF RX line. It comes to a relay that switches a 390 ohm resistor in and out. Further down is a what appears to be a pi attenuator composed of 2 100 ohm and 1 68 ohm resistors. The pi attenuator would figure to be 10db but I have no idea what the 390 ohm resistor offers for attenuation. Am I looking at this correct? Any and all help accepted and appreciated. 73, Jon W1JHJ Plymouth, MA FN41qw http://geocities.com/ws1k.rm ---------------------------------------------------- NetZero Platinum Sign Up Today - Only $9.95 per month! http://my.netzero.net/s/signup?r=platinum&refcd=PT97 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1276 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 23:31:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 23:31:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 28792 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 23:30:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 23:30:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cbDS-0000w9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 00:27:18 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cbDR-0000w4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 00:27:17 +0100 Received: from [213.122.234.164] (helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15cbCn-00035x-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 00:26:37 +0100 Message-ID: <003501c131aa$f12c53e0$88e57ad5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Amidon toroids Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 00:00:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Ferromagnetics PO BOX 577 Mold Flintshire CH7 1AH are still in business, send SAE for details they dont quote a tele no. or a web site. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com -----Original Message----- From: Andrew Nunn To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 30 August 2001 18:59 Subject: LF: Amidon toroids >Does anyone know of a source of Amidon ferrite toroids in the UK? > >Thanks in advance > >73 > >Andrew >G8AXO > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2834 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 23:15:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 23:15:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 20905 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 23:14:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 23:14:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cas5-0000mf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 00:05:13 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cas3-0000ma-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 00:05:11 +0100 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id l.b9.130ce806 (7402) for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 19:03:58 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 19:03:58 EDT Subject: LF: Re: Carriers / TV QRM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 107 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 8/30/01 7:56:00 PM GMT Daylight Time, mike@boxernet.demon.co.uk writes: << My problem is, what do I replace it with. Has anyone recently installed a modern TV that does not cause QRM on 136 ? It would seem like "self mutilation" (Selbst-Verstuemmelung) to retain this equipment, particularly at present here in the UK with the awful junk generally being offered to us on tv. Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated ! >> I have a Sony and a Panasonic 'portable'. Both of these are clear on 136k. David G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25885 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 23:11:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 23:11:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 14742 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 23:09:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 23:09:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cat2-0000mn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 00:06:12 +0100 Received: from mta04.mail.au.uu.net ([203.2.192.84] helo=mta04.mail.mel.aone.net.au) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cat1-0000mh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 00:06:11 +0100 Received: from mstubbs ([63.60.255.111]) by mta04.mail.mel.aone.net.au with SMTP id <20010830230524.YOGR9592.mta04.mail.mel.aone.net.au@mstubbs> for ; Fri, 31 Aug 2001 09:05:24 +1000 Message-ID: <000a01c131a7$c3ebe240$6fff3c3f@mstubbs> From: "Michael Stubbs-Race" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: LF Receiver Date: Fri, 31 Aug 2001 08:32:00 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
The Yaesu FT-767GX does not appear to have lp filtering for medium wave band, tunes well below the 100 K mark and is very stable. Does anyone else have experience using this rig for LF receiving?
 
Mike VK2ASR
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27102 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 21:08:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 21:08:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 12874 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 21:06:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 21:06:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cYwL-0007wi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 22:01:29 +0100 Received: from mail1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.18]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cYwK-0007wd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 22:01:28 +0100 Received: from modem-119.monkeyface-eel.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.40.247] helo=g3aqc) by mail1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15cYvc-0003rn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 22:00:45 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c13197$29e3c420$f728893e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 73Khz Beacon Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 22:02:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi All,
Conditions not too bad so I will run the beacon tonight from 2300 utc till 0530. Freq 71,921.5 KHz.  Mode DFCW  60sec dots.
73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25195 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 21:06:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 21:06:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 12135 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 21:05:09 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 21:05:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cYv2-0007vJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 22:00:08 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from galahad.joust.net ([63.108.136.2] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cYv0-0007vE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 22:00:06 +0100 Received: from benny-hill (m4-138-157.joust.net [63.108.138.157]) by galahad.joust.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f7UKxOf21575 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:59:25 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <200108302059.f7UKxOf21575@galahad.joust.net> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:59:20 -0400 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Steve Dove" Subject: LF: Receivers X-Mailer: Opera 5.02 build 856a X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings, A couple of months ago the "which receiver?" thing came up over here, too. The attached below is a message I sent one of the guys (he was toying with getting a TS-440S, with which he is reasonably pleased); I'd just got a TS-140S as an LF-specific radio (really cheap) and measured what I had to hand. The following evening I measured an IC-735 (a radio I really like - probably optimum radio-per-dollar) which is excellent 160 - 10, but laughably deaf - even with the BCB attenuator removed - at 136. AGC threshold of about 60uV, if I remember. A friend's 746 was similar. If anyone's interested, I'll get hold of a 756 (which has the same front-end as the PRO, too) and 'measure' that. One issue that hasn't come up in the discussion so far is that of stability and the means of improving same. Old radios which otherwise rock (such as the IC-751a) have too many (i.e. more than one) crystal oscillators that affect stability; mine has been 'retired' for that reason. By way of contrast, even the bottom-of-the-line TS-140S has a single reference, which cooks up nicely. Cheers, Steve Forwarded: -Hi Phil, Well, I got to play with the TS-140 this evening. Thought you might like to see these numbers: (Hope they format OK): Freq. IC-781 IC-751a TS-140S reqd. signal for 's9' 3.6M 56uV 45uV 50uV 200k 56uV 80uV 160uV agc threshold 3.6M 2.5uV 2.7uV 1.7uV 400k 0.9uV 1.1uV 1.1uV 200k 1.1uV 1uV 1.8uV 135k 1uV 1uV 5uV 100k 1.25uV 1.3uV 15uV The oscillator I was using leaks too much to do a proper Minimum Discernable Signal measurement, so I thought that agc threshold would tell a reasonable story. The '140 holds it's own with the 'big boys' very well; the very rapid drop-off at the low-end is a mystery - it's too rapid for just general giving-up-the-ghost; it's almost as though it's the edge of a notch there or something. I'll track it down eventually. Yes, the '781 is best, but it had better be! The '140 chucks in an almighty attenuator between 500 and 1600kHz (for good reason) and then very nicely removes it below 500kHz. Good news. The Bad News is that the (not especially strong) front-end makes a pig's ear of all the now un-attenuated broadcasters - intermod everywhere. A low-pass filter or some other selectivity is essential to use it on LF. I threw in a sloppy thing-in-an-Altoids-tin filter and it breathed a sigh of relief. Then, just for good measure, I opened it up and chucked in the IRC 125Hz filter out of the 751a (such as the one you had). Life is looking good . . . Cheers, Steve From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15698 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 21:00:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 21:00:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 8262 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 20:59:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 20:59:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cYpH-0007uc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 21:54:11 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.89]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cYpG-0007uX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 21:54:10 +0100 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15cYoc-000GAE-0V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 21:53:30 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B8EA961.B543B8D9@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 22:00:17 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: Carriers References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike GW4HXO wrote: > Today I purchased & installed a new Panasonic TX-25 CK1 TV > receiver to replace an older one of same make. > To my horror, I found that it radiates a strong rough carrier > on 136.1 spreading both up and down several hundred hertz. Ouch! Thanks for alerting us to that one, Mike. While you still have that rogue LF transmitter (cleverly disguised as a TV receiver), is there any chance of doing some quick tests for future reference? For example: - does the noise reduce when you unplug the TV antenna? - does switching the TV to 'standby' make any difference? - does the noise appear to be conducted via the mains lead, to the house wiring? Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12927 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 19:39:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 19:39:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 6808 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 19:37:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 19:37:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cXTl-00074X-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:27:53 +0100 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cXTk-00074S-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:27:52 +0100 Received: from [217.35.34.58] (helo=mud) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15cXT6-0002R0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:27:13 +0100 Message-ID: <002401c1318b$07659ec0$0100a8c0@home> From: "G3YXM" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: RE: Re: Carriers Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 20:36:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Mike.
 
I have a Grundig MW82 Arganto series widescreen TV with no problems on LF.
 
Dave G3YXM.
 
 
Today I purchased & installed a new Panasonic  TX-25 CK1  TV  receiver to replace an older one of same make.
To my horror, I found that it radiates a strong rough carrier on 136.1 spreading both up and down several hundred hertz making the band inoperable on all three of my antennas.
I have no doubt that, with difficulty, I will be able to return it to the dealers.
My problem is, what do I replace it with.  Has anyone recently installed a modern TV that does not cause QRM on 136 ? It would seem like "self mutilation" (Selbst-Verstuemmelung) to retain this equipment, particularly at present here in the UK with the awful junk generally being offered to us on tv.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated !
 
"vorsprung durch Technik usw"
 
Best wishes to all
 
Mike  GW4HXO.
 
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 89 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 18:59:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 18:59:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 6921 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 18:57:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 18:57:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cWwB-0006lg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 19:53:11 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.88]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cWw9-0006lb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 19:53:10 +0100 Received: from boxernet.demon.co.uk ([194.222.47.214] helo=TRIXY) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15cWvS-000Ime-0U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 19:52:27 +0100 From: "Michael Probert" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re: Carriers Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 19:51:28 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hello All,
On 25th August, Wolf wrote---
 <<<<<<<<<<<< -----Original Message-----
From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf Of DL4YHF@aol.com
Subject: LF: Re: Carriers

I can strongly confirm such QRM from modern TV sets. That also seems to be
the reason why some days I "don't have ears" when operation from DF0WD.  <<<<<<<  
 
Also confirm the range of these nasty carriers: they can indeed exceed the
range of 100 yards (~meters). The clubstation DF0WD is about 150mtrs away
from the next house, but a part of QRM seems to correlate with the TV prime
time. On the waterfall its impressive to see a group of carriers disappearing
instantly after the main evening news at 20:15 local.

I guess most of the QRM travels over the mains supply lines >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> 
 
 
Today I purchased & installed a new Panasonic  TX-25 CK1  TV  receiver to replace an older one of same make.
To my horror, I found that it radiates a strong rough carrier on 136.1 spreading both up and down several hundred hertz making the band inoperable on all three of my antennas.
I have no doubt that, with difficulty, I will be able to return it to the dealers.
My problem is, what do I replace it with.  Has anyone recently installed a modern TV that does not cause QRM on 136 ? It would seem like "self mutilation" (Selbst-Verstuemmelung) to retain this equipment, particularly at present here in the UK with the awful junk generally being offered to us on tv.
Any suggestions would be greatly appreciated !
 
"vorsprung durch Technik usw"
 
Best wishes to all
 
Mike  GW4HXO.
 
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14500 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 18:03:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 18:03:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 29745 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 18:01:55 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 18:01:55 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cW3e-00069Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:56:50 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cW3d-00069K-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:56:49 +0100 Received: from [62.7.116.200] (helo=anuna-1.btinternet.com) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15cW2z-0007h0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:56:10 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010830161503.00a89e50@127.0.0.1> X-Sender: andrew.nunn/mail.btinternet.com@127.0.0.1 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:56:00 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Andrew Nunn" Subject: LF: Amidon toroids MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Does anyone know of a source of Amidon ferrite toroids in the UK? Thanks in advance 73 Andrew G8AXO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9320 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 17:57:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 17:57:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 25236 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 17:55:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 17:55:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cVx6-00068a-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:50:04 +0100 Received: from tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cVx2-000687-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:50:00 +0100 Received: from server1 ([216.209.110.165]) by tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010830174846.LDEQ28468.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:48:46 -0400 Message-ID: <001001c1317b$ea824970$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: TS-570 Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:47:59 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings All: I see some references to the TS-570 and I have owned two of them and use one almost everyday at my remote HF station. My experience is that this radio is dead at LF as it comes out of the box. The receiver has problems with overload on HF but if you crank down the RF and up the AF it works great and is one of the better QSK CW radios from the yacomwood stable that I have seen so far. The good news is that the audio output is clean and doesn't have any bleed through issues such as the TT Pegasus does. There is only one button that has to be operated from the front panel, the Power ON/OFF switch has to be pushed manually once and then you can do anything from the RS-232 connection that you can do from the front panel with the knobs and buttons. I really enjoy tunneling down on a signal with a single keyboard button, four steps from 1 KHz wide to 50 Hz wide, really great. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 856 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 17:09:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 17:09:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 10147 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 17:07:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 17:07:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cVBp-0005Yx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:01:13 +0100 Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.161]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cVBo-0005Xc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:01:12 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id l.a6.18f9f60b (4261) for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:59:58 -0400 (EDT) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:59:58 EDT Subject: LF: Re^n: Receiver To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 10506 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello,

I once had the chance to compare an old IC735, an IC706 and a TS850 running
side-by-side connected to a tuned LF-antenna (150m long wire).

Results:
- TS850 with 500Hz and 270 Hz filter:   
  Could hear the grass grow   and   OH1TN call cq on 136kHz.
  A fine rig, as already expressed by others (and in the LF handbook).
  Considering the price I once paid for it, and for what it can be found
  nowadays on the second-hand market, I would almost buy a second
  one as a spare unit !

- IC735:  quite deaf, some IM products audible which were not there
  on the TS850. But still a nice rig on 160m and HF.

- IC706 ( the 'old' one, no MK2, with 270 Hz filter):
  Very deaf on 136kHz, no matter if the preamp is on or off.
  Turning the VFO knob OR THE VOLUME CONTROL results
  in a hissing sound, which stops after the motion.
  Looks like the rig picks up some noise from its own serial interface
  between the front panel and the microcontroller !
  Hopefully the IC706 MK2 ( & -G) are better at 136kHz.
  At 77kHz, I cannot even hear the DCF time signal transmitter near
  Frankfurt...

Some years ago, I compared the TS570 and the TS850 on HF for CW.
There were severe blocking effects in the TS570 in a heavy crowded CW
segment, because there is not enough selectivity in the early stages
in the IF amplifier chain. The S-meter went up to S-9, but no signal
could be heard because the DSP decided it was outside the passband.
And, with modestly narrow CW filter settings the audio from the TS570
sounded like a block flute, which is not very pleasant. Maybe there was
something wrong with the DSP. We never did further investigations because the
owner of the TS570 immediately traded it for a TS850...

73,
 Wolf  DL4YHF. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22452 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 17:04:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 17:04:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 15946 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 17:02:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 17:02:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cV7o-0005Wy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 17:57:04 +0100 Received: from fep01-svc.mail.telepac.pt ([194.65.5.200]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cV7m-0005Wq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 17:57:03 +0100 Received: from host ([194.65.202.90]) by fep01-svc.mail.telepac.pt (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010830170259.FBQO27783.fep01-svc.mail.telepac.pt@host>; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:02:59 +0100 Message-ID: <003c01c1316c$820b6b60$cd4efea9@host.telepac.pt> From: "=?iso-8859-1?B?Sm9z6SBkZSBT4Q==?=" To: "Brian Rogerson" Cc: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Receiver Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:57:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Brian and all I used to have a TS-850 in the past but I have trade it for a TS870, now I almost forgot I have a TS-50, its the radio I usually use when I go to East-Timor and I always forget I got it packed in my travel luggage, Hi ! I guess I can use the TS-50 for LF and it will probably be better than the 870. Thanks for all. 73 Jose CT1EEB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9090 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 17:02:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 17:02:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 6301 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 17:01:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 17:01:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cV4e-0005Wi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 17:53:48 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.101]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cV4c-0005Wa-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 17:53:47 +0100 Received: from northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (northrelay01.pok.ibm.com [9.117.200.21]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA449872 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:50:23 -0400 Received: from usa.net (ss5.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.70]) by northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v4.97.1) with ESMTP id f7UGqUp32634 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:52:31 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B8E6F4E.76B0679F@usa.net> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:52:30 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Receiver References: <003e01c130d4$30973360$7798fea9@host.telepac.pt> <3B8E1787.4FB4EC0D@usa.net> <00a601c1316f$0791a180$d3331997@KOSOVEUALESSANDRO> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alessandro - IW3SGT wrote: > Hi all, > > I have tested my IC746 SMETER in the 30kHz-1599 kHz > > follow this link: > http://www.qsl.net/iw3sgt/Prj/SMETER_IC746.html > If I read correctly that table, to have an indication of S1 at 140 kHz, you need 39 dBuV, which correspond roughly to 89 uV. Isn't that a bit too much ? This would confirm what my friend said. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17212 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 16:21:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 16:21:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 11596 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 16:20:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 16:20:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cUTV-00056w-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 17:15:25 +0100 Received: from smtp3.libero.it ([193.70.192.53]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cUTU-00056r-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 17:15:24 +0100 Received: from KOSOVEUALESSANDRO (151.25.51.211) by smtp3.libero.it (5.5.025) id 3B8D24DB0003C7D6 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:14:14 +0200 Message-ID: <00a601c1316f$0791a180$d3331997@KOSOVEUALESSANDRO> From: "Alessandro - IW3SGT" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <003e01c130d4$30973360$7798fea9@host.telepac.pt> <3B8E1787.4FB4EC0D@usa.net> Subject: LF: R: Re: Receiver Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 18:15:47 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, I have tested my IC746 SMETER in the 30kHz-1599 kHz follow this link: http://www.qsl.net/iw3sgt/Prj/SMETER_IC746.html (sorry the page is only in Italian language) 73s Ale --------------------------------------------------------------- Alessandro Kosoveu IW3SGT - IV3-2161/TS P.O. BOX 238 - 34100 TRIESTE - ITALY e-mail: iw3sgt@qsl.net - iw3sgt@libero.it home page: http://www.qsl.net/iw3sgt --------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Original Message ----- From: Alberto di Bene To: Sent: Thursday, August 30, 2001 12:37 PM Subject: LF: Re: Receiver José de Sá wrote: > What about the TS-870 or the Icom IC-746 ? > > Jose CT1EEB > According to the Kenwood specs, the TS-850 is rated at 0.2 uV for 10 dB (S+N)/N at 100 kHz. The TS-870 has a rating of only 1 uV in the same conditions. Don't have numbers for the IC-746, but a friend OM that owns one tells me that it is deaf as a doorknob on the LF band. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12986 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 15:46:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 15:46:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 15255 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 15:44:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 15:44:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cTta-0004nm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:38:18 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cTtZ-0004nh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 16:38:17 +0100 Received: from ldsas01-65-116-180.cw-visp.com ([212.137.116.180] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15cTkq-0001Lt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 15:29:16 +0000 Message-ID: <3B8E3202.A90CF7F1@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:30:58 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Receiver References: <003e01c130d4$30973360$7798fea9@host.telepac.pt> <3B8E1787.4FB4EC0D@usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alberto di Bene wrote: > José de Sá wrote: > > > What about the TS-870 or the Icom IC-746 ? I owned or still have most of the receivers you mention. The TS 850 is a good rx on LF and so is the TS50 and TS570 with the appropriate IF filters. Other makes that are acceptable are the FT1000, IC746, IC706 and FT847 Others I do not know about because I have never tried them. With large antennas all the above are good with smaller antennas there might be a sensitivity problem. In my case I have adequate sensitivity because of the fairly large antenna system. With suitable filters the TS850/TS50 and TS 570 are good on 136 khz and comparable are the FT1000 and IC746. The IC706 will just about manage with the pre amp ON with a large antenna and an external audio DSP filter. With smaller antennas the IC706 is barely sensitive enough. The FT 847 although useable suffers from overload, but with some attenuation and juggling it works. All of the above receivers are good enough with a good antenna for 136 khz and a lot depends on the OPERATOR regardless of specification. You must have the necessary narrow cw filters for maximum performance on all the above receivers. If you need 73 khz then you are more limited for choice as most do not cover that frequency. > G3KEV > > > > Jose CT1EEB > > > > According to the Kenwood specs, the TS-850 is rated at 0.2 uV for > 10 dB (S+N)/N at 100 kHz. > > The TS-870 has a rating of only 1 uV in the same conditions. > > Don't have numbers for the IC-746, but a friend OM that owns one > tells me that it is deaf as a doorknob on the LF band. > > 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3416 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 13:09:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 13:09:30 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 21234 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 13:08:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 13:08:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cRSO-0003HH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 14:02:04 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.91]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cRSM-0003HC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 14:02:03 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15cRRS-0005jV-0X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 14:01:06 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:57:30 +0100 To: "RSGB LF Group" From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: LF: TS850 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks Bob and Alberto for info on TS-850 MF attenuator. 73, Tom G3OLB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23079 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 12:40:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 12:40:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 6187 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 12:39:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 12:39:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cQzN-0002z8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:32:05 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cQzM-0002z3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 13:32:04 +0100 Received: from ldsas03-67-118-112.cw-visp.com ([212.137.118.112] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15cQqf-0006Hh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:23:06 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B8E2391.1F577EE@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:29:21 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: sensitive rx Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All Regarding various receivers for LF. There are several varieties of Level Meter available on the surplus market. Most of these make a good sensitive RX on the LF bands. Some have adequate selectivity but this can be enhanced with an outboard audio DSP unit for more flexibility, another refinement could be a BPF for the required frequency 73 or 136 khz.between antenna and Meter. Another approach would be to use the shack RX to tune across the Level Meter IF output assuming it is a superhet, I think some older models were straight receivers. For those that are not sure what a Level Meter might be, it is an accurately calibrated LF receiver although some have a range up to several MHZ. . One instrument that I have covers 200 hz - 620 khz and is in fact a transceiver because it also has a tracking osc ganged to the tuning device covering the same range on transmit. Output is several volts of sine wave rf and useful for driving either a 73 or 136 khz amplifier. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16299 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 10:50:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 10:50:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 15517 invoked from network); 30 Aug 2001 10:49:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 30 Aug 2001 10:49:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cPEt-0001yw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 11:39:59 +0100 Received: from e34.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.132] helo=e34.bld.us.ibm.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cPEs-0001yr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 11:39:58 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com [9.99.140.22]) by e34.bld.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA04324 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 06:37:05 -0400 Received: from usa.net (ss6.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.71]) by westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v4.97.1) with ESMTP id f7UAbxi146182 for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 04:37:59 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B8E1787.4FB4EC0D@usa.net> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 12:37:59 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Receiver References: <003e01c130d4$30973360$7798fea9@host.telepac.pt> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by e34.bld.us.ibm.com id GAA04324 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: José de Sá wrote: > What about the TS-870 or the Icom IC-746 ? > > Jose CT1EEB > According to the Kenwood specs, the TS-850 is rated at 0.2 uV for 10 dB (S+N)/N at 100 kHz. The TS-870 has a rating of only 1 uV in the same conditions. Don't have numbers for the IC-746, but a friend OM that owns one tells me that it is deaf as a doorknob on the LF band. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18813 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2001 23:00:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Aug 2001 23:00:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 20450 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2001 22:58:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 29 Aug 2001 22:58:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cECf-00046U-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 23:52:57 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from e34.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.132] helo=e34.bld.us.ibm.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cECd-00046P-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 23:52:56 +0100 Received: from westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com [9.99.140.22]) by e34.bld.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id SAA127596 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 18:50:03 -0400 Received: from usa.net (ss3.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.68]) by westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v4.97.1) with ESMTP id f7TMovi345294 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:50:58 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B8D71CD.477AEF13@usa.net> Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 00:50:56 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Receiver References: <001901c130be$0e72ab40$0eb51bca@xtr743187> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Vernall wrote: > Tom G3OLB, > > > Talking of TS-850s, does anyone know why my TS-850 changes gain at > > 500.000 KHz? Seems like an attenuator is switched in above 500 KHz. Is > > there a mod to defeat it? > > The TS-850 is manufactured with an attenuator for the MF AM broadcast band > (included within that band pass filter). The attenuator is made from > surface mount resistors, on the underside of the PCB, so it is a fairly > tricky job to rework. If you do a web search for TS-850 mods, you will find > a text and figures as to how to remove the attenuator. > Yes, that is typical for Kenwood, probably they fear their rigs get saturated in the MW band.... when modifying my TS-950SDX to improve its sensitivity in the LF band, as described in a past message, I eliminated that T-network attenuator. In my case it was rather easy, as Kenwood had kindly provided two test pins (???), just before and after the attenuator. So all it was needed was just a jumper. It looks like they had foreseen the need to bypass it. I have noticed no ill effects after its bypassing, probably in Japan they have much stronger MW transmitters than here :-) 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9473 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2001 22:53:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Aug 2001 22:53:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 16918 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2001 22:52:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 29 Aug 2001 22:52:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cE6x-0003yd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 23:47:03 +0100 Received: from fep02-svc.mail.telepac.pt ([194.65.5.201]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cE6w-0003yV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 23:47:02 +0100 Received: from host ([212.55.187.234]) by fep02-svc.mail.telepac.pt (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010829225238.GPFE5633.fep02-svc.mail.telepac.pt@host> for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 23:52:38 +0100 Message-ID: <003e01c130d4$30973360$7798fea9@host.telepac.pt> From: "=?iso-8859-1?B?Sm9z6SBkZSBT4Q==?=" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Receiver Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 22:40:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: What about the TS-870 or the Icom IC-746 ? Jose CT1EEB >Ulrich Idzes wrote: > >> >From what I have seen on the reflector, the TS-850S should be a good >> choice. My question is if someone can say something about the TS-930S in >> this context. (I have to choose between those two) > >Ulrich, > my personal advice is to go for the TS-850. It has a very clean DDS, >which cannot be said for the TS-930, and its sensitivity in the LF band is >second to none, at least among the commercial Ham transceivers. > >73 Alberto I2PHD > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15517 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2001 19:18:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Aug 2001 19:18:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 18037 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2001 19:16:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 29 Aug 2001 19:16:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cAit-00024T-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 20:09:59 +0100 Received: from [203.96.92.23] (helo=mta7-rme.xtra.co.nz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15cAio-00024N-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 20:09:55 +0100 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.181.14]) by mta7-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010829190841.CXJY1311.mta7-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Thu, 30 Aug 2001 07:08:41 +1200 Message-ID: <001901c130be$0e72ab40$0eb51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: Re: LF: Receiver Date: Thu, 30 Aug 2001 07:07:11 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Tom G3OLB, > Talking of TS-850s, does anyone know why my TS-850 changes gain at > 500.000 KHz? Seems like an attenuator is switched in above 500 KHz. Is > there a mod to defeat it? The TS-850 is manufactured with an attenuator for the MF AM broadcast band (included within that band pass filter). The attenuator is made from surface mount resistors, on the underside of the PCB, so it is a fairly tricky job to rework. If you do a web search for TS-850 mods, you will find a text and figures as to how to remove the attenuator. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1326 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2001 16:36:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Aug 2001 16:36:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 17016 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2001 16:35:06 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 29 Aug 2001 16:35:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15c85e-0000aF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:21:18 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15c85d-0000aA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:21:18 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15c84u-000D5O-0W for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 17:20:32 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 16:58:04 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: Re: LF: Receiver In-reply-to: <3B8CCCD4.27810EFB@usa.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Talking of TS-850s, does anyone know why my TS-850 changes gain at 500.000 KHz? Seems like an attenuator is switched in above 500 KHz. Is there a mod to defeat it? 73, Tom G3OLB In message <3B8CCCD4.27810EFB@usa.net>, Alberto di Bene writes >Ulrich, > my personal advice is to go for the TS-850. It has a very clean DDS, >which cannot be said for the TS-930, and its sensitivity in the LF band is >second to none, at least among the commercial Ham transceivers. > >73 Alberto I2PHD > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20313 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2001 11:22:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Aug 2001 11:22:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 1639 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2001 11:20:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 29 Aug 2001 11:20:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15c3DS-0006F9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 12:09:02 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from e34.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.132] helo=e34.bld.us.ibm.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15c3DQ-0006F4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 12:09:01 +0100 Received: from westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com [9.99.140.22]) by e34.bld.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA78284 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 07:06:06 -0400 Received: from usa.net (ss3.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.68]) by westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v4.97.1) with ESMTP id f7TB6xc348382 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 05:07:00 -0600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B8CCCD4.27810EFB@usa.net> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 13:07:00 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Receiver References: <3.0.1.16.20010827102249.2d576aba@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <3.0.1.16.20010828090220.30f77454@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <002201c12fbe$7b7ce940$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> <3B8C9E5C.1E075231@abnamro.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Ulrich Idzes wrote: > >From what I have seen on the reflector, the TS-850S should be a good > choice. My question is if someone can say something about the TS-930S in > this context. (I have to choose between those two) Ulrich, my personal advice is to go for the TS-850. It has a very clean DDS, which cannot be said for the TS-930, and its sensitivity in the LF band is second to none, at least among the commercial Ham transceivers. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1375 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2001 10:18:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Aug 2001 10:18:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 13327 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2001 10:16:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 29 Aug 2001 10:16:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15c2JQ-0005hL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:11:08 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15c2JO-0005hG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:11:07 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v4.0.0.R) for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:08:30 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 11:08:28 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Transcontinental Message-ID: <3B8CCD2C.6.C2FFE@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have reorganised the Transatlantic section of my web site, to include Transpacific information and news, and to record the new (2001-2002) DX season separately from last year's work. There are some gaps at present. Anyone who has information to add, please let me know. See http://www.lf.thersgb.net/transcontinental Also, please remember to remove my ****@rsgb.org.uk addresses from your address book, and replace with mike.dennison@ntlworld.com. The old addresses will be unreliable after this week. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9731 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2001 07:56:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Aug 2001 07:56:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 27884 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2001 07:55:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 29 Aug 2001 07:55:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15c06Y-0004Ps-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 08:49:42 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from triton01.abnamro.nl ([167.202.193.11]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15c06X-0004Pn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 08:49:41 +0100 Received: from inetml01.inet.nl.abnamro.com ([10.63.234.67]) by triton01.abnamro.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA07764 for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:51:11 +0200 (MEST) Received: from abnamro.nl ([10.49.21.61]) by inetml01.inet.nl.abnamro.com (Netscape Messaging Server 3.6) with ESMTP id AAA23FE for ; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:48:47 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B8C9E5C.1E075231@abnamro.nl> Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 09:48:44 +0200 From: "Ulrich Idzes" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Receiver References: <3.0.1.16.20010827102249.2d576aba@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <3.0.1.16.20010828090220.30f77454@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <002201c12fbe$7b7ce940$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello, I am in the process of choosing a suitable secondhand tranceiver for HF. Because of my interest in LF, I am looking for one with good sensitivity and selectivity on 137 KHz. >From what I have seen on the reflector, the TS-850S should be a good choice. My question is if someone can say something about the TS-930S in this context. (I have to choose between those two) kind regards, Ulrich, PA7EY From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 337 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2001 06:34:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Aug 2001 06:34:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 12798 invoked from network); 29 Aug 2001 06:32:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 29 Aug 2001 06:32:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15bymK-0003cm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 07:24:44 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from siaag2ab.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.132]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15bymJ-0003ch-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 07:24:43 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag2ab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.12) id CAA22130 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 29 Aug 2001 02:24:03 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Wed, 29 Aug 2001 02:23:35 -0400 From: "Holger 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Re: Dynamic range for FM link (was: Carriers) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200108290223_MC3-DDFB-B301@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Wolf, you mentioned a cheap LPD solution, which, off course, would also be necessary for any unattended use according to the German regulations. Depending on the distance between the remote receiving site and your house you might want to look into wireless microphones, that usually have a high dynamic range and also allow unattended license-free use. For the legal use you would only need the transmitter, the (normally more expensive) receiver can be replaced by something homemade. There are wireless microphone tranmitters available with a microphone connector to it (to which you can connect your LF receiver) for example in the 800 MHz range, which should allow quite a good range of several hundred meters (with 10 mW output), provided you use a directional antenna at the receiving site. Another possibility might be to look into a (license free) 2400 MHz Video link ... Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) ... still without LF antenna at the moment, but will be back on the air hopefully during the next winter-LF-season ... From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8323 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2001 17:45:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Aug 2001 17:45:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 27479 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2001 17:44:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 28 Aug 2001 17:44:32 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15bmki-0005H1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:34:16 +0100 Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.36]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15bmkd-0005Gv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 18:34:12 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id l.a2.18ff43e5 (3700) for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 13:32:53 -0400 (EDT) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 13:32:53 EDT Subject: LF: Re: Dynamic range for FM link (was: Carriers) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 10506 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi Larry, Rik,   and the group,

As Rik's wrote, the dynamic range of some cheap FM transmitters is possibly
just in the range of 40dB or so. But IMO, a homemade "simple but true FM"
transmitter could do better.
The designers of these transmitters certainly do everything they can to keep
the costs down (good engineering work :-) . But the dynamic range can vary
greatly between different rigs, depending on the principle how and at what
frequency the FM is generated, and how much attention is paid to the AF path
before the signal is applied to the varicap (or whatever). There is a lot of
noisy but cheap AF amplifiers and preamps out there...

Using a simple "straight" design where the FM'ed oscillator is multiplied to
the final frequency should do better, at least for the distortions of the
modulation. For example,  ( 27.11MHz+- 300 Hz) * 2 * 2 * 2 * 2 = 433.76 MHz
+- 5kHz.

The question is, how many dB's are required (see Larry's mail), and how much
effort must be put into the FM link vs the LF frontend...

Thanks Rik also for the idea of using a digital link instead of an analog one
(by direct mail). It doesn't necessarily have to be a high-speed packed link,
a simple serial 16-bit frame plus a startbit from a serial ADC (possibly the
LTC129x ) could possibly do the job, even without a microcontroller at the
remote RX site.


Now I'm off to think about all this for a little longer. Thanks to everyone
for their suggestions, and apologies to others for drifting into the HI-tech
corner again..


73  Wolf,   DL4YHF.






From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20173 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2001 12:49:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Aug 2001 12:49:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 13221 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2001 12:47:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 28 Aug 2001 12:47:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15biAn-0002ZU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 13:40:53 +0100 Received: from tomts14.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.35] helo=tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15biAl-0002ZH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 13:40:52 +0100 Received: from server1 ([216.209.110.160]) by tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010828123940.ZYDL8611.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:39:40 -0400 Message-ID: <002201c12fbe$7b7ce940$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20010827102249.2d576aba@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <3.0.1.16.20010828090220.30f77454@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: Re: LF: Re: Carriers Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 08:29:16 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik: > I am afraid that the dynamic range will be limited by the FM transmitter, > not so much by the FM receiver. For a normal voice link there is no reason > to have a dynamic range at the TX input (mike) in excess of 40dB so I fear > that no constructor will do any efford to increase the dynamic range at the > TX input. and my contention and experience is that the transmitter dynamic range is adequate for what comes out of the HF/LF receiver. The FM receiver is always a fleas flea when it comes to noise contribution in my experience. I guess if one uses an HF/LF receiver with AGC ON and the RF up and the AF down then that might be a problem to have good S+N/N performance. For myself I got by that issue about day 2 of my work with remote receivers. I always run the receiver for maximum dynamic range, ie RF down, AF up and I do everything possible to get rid of any AGC action in the receiver. I have in the past used a sound card in the remote PC along with some software I was experimenting with and the DSP output runs the RF gain control for maximum S+N/N ratio at a constant peak audio level output, occasionally the software got it wrong and made things worse but in general the trick worked reasonably well. I found however that manual RF gain control operation on the remote keyboard was more to my liking and works excellently for me. My thick and stiff fingers are better at pushing keyboard keys than they are twisting knobs so I have come to prefer tuning through the keyboard, very precise oper;ation of the controls, over trying to make the knobs do what I want with my fingers. The critical features in the link transmitter and associated receiver are to ensure that hum and noise is minimized. The use of low frequency tones for squelch control I found created additional mixing issues and I have those automagically turned off when I am using the link with the remote HF/LF receiver attached. The key however is that you could not tell if you are looking at an ARGO .jpg if the file was collected at the remote site or at my home, they look exactly the same and at the end of the day that for me is what is important. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27995 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2001 08:14:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Aug 2001 08:14:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 28871 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2001 08:13:14 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 28 Aug 2001 08:13:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15bdqs-00008d-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:04:02 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15bdqr-00008Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:04:01 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA164738 for ; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 10:03:21 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010828090220.30f77454@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 28 Aug 2001 09:02:20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Carriers In-reply-to: <000a01c12f59$b6f922a0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> References: <3.0.1.16.20010827102249.2d576aba@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Larry, I am afraid that the dynamic range will be limited by the FM transmitter, not so much by the FM receiver. For a normal voice link there is no reason to have a dynamic range at the TX input (mike) in excess of 40dB so I fear that no constructor will do any efford to increase the dynamic range at the TX input. 73, Rik ON7YD >If you can hear/see signals on your local setup the FM relayed signal will >be only a tiny bit worse due to additional distortion introduced by the >additional modulation and demodulation processes. > >There is no additional dynamic range needed on the proviso that the receiver >is the same or comparable. > >Larry >VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10770 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2001 00:46:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Aug 2001 00:46:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 24930 invoked from network); 28 Aug 2001 00:45:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 28 Aug 2001 00:45:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15bWul-0004hU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 01:39:35 +0100 Received: from tomts6.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.26] helo=tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15bWuk-0004hP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 28 Aug 2001 01:39:34 +0100 Received: from server1 ([209.226.189.16]) by tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010828003819.LIPR3759.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:38:19 -0400 Message-ID: <000a01c12f59$b6f922a0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20010827102249.2d576aba@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: Re: LF: Re: Carriers Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:38:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik: > The critical parameter of a cheap FM-handy (or even a more expensive one) > will be the dynamic range. At my station the strongest local station (ON6ND > at about 40km) is 70dB stronger than my 'QRSS-noisefloor' at low QRN, DCF39 > is even 90dB above this level. > I'm afraid that a strong station will 'close' the entire band when using an > FM link, if you cannot keep DCF39 out of the passband things will be even > worse. If you can hear/see signals on your local setup the FM relayed signal will be only a tiny bit worse due to additional distortion introduced by the additional modulation and demodulation processes. There is no additional dynamic range needed on the proviso that the receiver is the same or comparable. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2024 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2001 19:27:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Aug 2001 19:27:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 29730 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2001 18:26:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 27 Aug 2001 18:26:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15bQv0-0001B9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:15:26 +0100 Received: from [212.204.115.10] (helo=hugo.fen-net.de ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15bQuy-0001B4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 19:15:25 +0100 Received: from DEFAULT (dialin-nbg-031.fen-net.de [212.204.116.31]) by hugo.fen-net.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA12138 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:14:42 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <001001c12f27$8b5ad3a0$1f74ccd4@DEFAULT> From: "Walter" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: df2bc Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 20:38:40 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.2106.4 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by hugo.fen-net.de id UAA12138 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Guten Abend Uwe, DF2BC ist meines Wissens nicht auf dem Reflektor. Hier seine E-Mail: Alfred.Kluess@t-online.de 73 Walter DJ2LF -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: jannsen <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Datum: Montag, 27. August 2001 17:29 Betreff: LF: df2bc Hi all, is Alfred, DF2BC on this reflector ? if not, is his e-mail-adr known ? regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27015 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2001 15:19:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Aug 2001 15:19:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 12859 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2001 15:17:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 27 Aug 2001 15:17:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15bO2V-00085y-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:10:59 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout03.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.81] helo=mailout03.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15bO2U-00085t-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 16:10:58 +0100 Received: from fwd06.sul.t-online.de by mailout03.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 15bO1n-0004wa-02; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 17:10:15 +0200 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.227.109.79]) by fwd06.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 15bO1h-1np86KC; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 17:10:09 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002201c12e52$277bb820$c253fea9@host.telepac.pt> Subject: LF: df2bc X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 17:10:09 +0200 Message-ID: <15bO1h-1np86KC@fwd06.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, is Alfred, DF2BC on this reflector ? if not, is his e-mail-adr known ? regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22224 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2001 09:30:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Aug 2001 09:30:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 26492 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2001 09:28:31 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 27 Aug 2001 09:28:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15bIdF-00051b-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:24:33 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15bIdC-00051W-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:24:30 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA793088 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 11:23:48 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010827102249.2d576aba@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:22:49 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Carriers In-reply-to: <149.7b0813.28b8e0b8@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Wolf, >I guess most of the QRM travels over the mains supply lines. I already >considered building a battery-powered remove RX with a 70cm-FM-link to the >main station (using a cheap 70cm-LPD handy). The problem is finding a quiet >remote RX side where the RX cannot be vandalized or stolen. The critical parameter of a cheap FM-handy (or even a more expensive one) will be the dynamic range. At my station the strongest local station (ON6ND at about 40km) is 70dB stronger than my 'QRSS-noisefloor' at low QRN, DCF39 is even 90dB above this level. I'm afraid that a strong station will 'close' the entire band when using an FM link, if you cannot keep DCF39 out of the passband things will be even worse. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11366 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2001 07:11:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Aug 2001 07:11:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 11054 invoked from network); 27 Aug 2001 07:03:12 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 27 Aug 2001 07:03:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15bGI8-0003ha-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 07:54:36 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15bGI7-0003hV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 07:54:35 +0100 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (215.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.215]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f7R6ru320327 for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 07:53:56 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010827075529.00a4ad00@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 07:58:44 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: Re: LF: QRN In-reply-to: <3B889D68.3523E3AB@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 07:55 26/08/01 Sunday, G3KEV wrote: >Hi All >The static started yesterday afternoon and is just as bad this morning. >It is very severe with prolonged bursts, never heard it so bad for a >long time, considering the wx is excellent in this area with blue sky. >Perhaps there is a storm in Southern Europe or possibly Africa !! could >even be NZ. No, it was over southeast UK - we had thunderstorms off and on most of Sunday with intermittent rain and dull and cloudy all day. So much for the forecast of a "bright and sunny day"!! Must be a Bank Holiday weekend. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7859 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2001 23:17:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Aug 2001 23:17:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 9788 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2001 23:09:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Aug 2001 23:09:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15b8w5-00083r-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 00:03:21 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15b8w4-00083m-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 00:03:20 +0100 Received: from [213.123.19.4] (helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15b8vP-0006Tu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 00:02:40 +0100 Message-ID: <001a01c12e82$fd193b80$04137bd5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: SXV and DCF42 Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 23:10:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi John, yes that is a wide signal from DCF42, but I found I can log 124.6 with the 300Hz filter in so I have transfered the log to that for a few nights. It is well up in the high 30s dBu at about 2200z. The tell-tale will be the morning decline in strength, and the timing of that. One plus factor seems that it is between the SMPSU harmonics !! The signal on 124.6 certainly sounds like the old SXV signal (100Hz FSK). Thanks Costas. Its nice to have something to monitor whilst CFH is away. There is not a lot of point in logging a station if I dont know where it is. I was once interested in looking for a tranmission from CFH Halifax in this area but could not disentangle it from the qrm at that time. I was not listening during the flare yesterday so I do not know whether there was any enhancement at 1630z ish, but reports suggest is caused a blackout on the MF bands. Strange propagation may ensue in about 5 days time. It all depends on the orientation of the CME field when it arrives. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6570 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2001 22:38:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Aug 2001 22:38:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 3844 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2001 22:30:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 26 Aug 2001 22:30:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15b8KY-0007gi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 23:24:34 +0100 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15b8KX-0007gc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 23:24:33 +0100 Received: from rvernall ([202.27.181.139]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010826222252.DHIR407778.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@rvernall> for ; Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:22:52 +1200 Message-ID: <001701c12e7d$97335d00$70b51bca@rvernall> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <149.7b0813.28b8e0b8@aol.com> <008201c12dca$d5b90240$88b21bca@xtr743187> Subject: LF: Active antenna feeder Date: Mon, 27 Aug 2001 10:21:04 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Wolf DL4YLF,
 
In response to your questions on what type of balanced feeder I use to my active antenna, it was originally a "data cable" that I obtained second hand at very low cost.  It is a plastic sheathed cable that has 4 twisted pairs of separately shielded wires.  My active antenna is in the back corner of my property, and the shack is in the house, so mainly for cosmetic reasons the cable has been buried a few centimetres in the lawn and garden.  Burying the cable may also have benefits in minimising "antenna effect" of the feeder.  I use one of the pairs as a balanced RF feeder and another pair for DC.  I earth all cable braids at the shack end and leave braids floating at the antenna end.  The active antenna has a separate local earth.  Two pairs in the cable have been left floating, but could be used in the future for the likes of connecting to a loop antenna and varicap diode tuning voltage.  For RF transformers, I use FT-50A-75 ferrite cores (permeability 5000) and 20 turns for primary and secondary, wound on opposite sides of the toroid, and these respond from a few kHz to MHz.  I did not use bifilar windings as these could have more capacitive feedthrough compared to windings that rely on magnetic flux coupling, and the incidental leakage reactance is no problem at any part of the LF band.
 
I also run my entire shack via a 5 kVA isolation transformer, so I have a combination of factors that help to keep mains conducted noise from getting into my receivers.  However, I am aware of successful results where the mains power supplies are double insulated and care is taken to minimise "inadverent earthing" via LF antenna feeders.
 
The effectiveness of isolation at LF can be checked if gear can be run from 12 volt batteries.  Testing for local QRM with no mains power connected (actually unplugged) from the receiver is the first acid test.  Then "antenna effect" of feeders to the active antenna can be checked by having no power applied to the active antenna.  Hopefully when all is working well, the receiver noise floor will be dominated by external QRN being received by the active antenna.
 
I also need to "float" my LF transmitting vertical while receiving, otherwise local QRM that is "seen" by the much larger antenna (and much larger near field) dominates the signal received by the separate active antenna. 
 
73, Bob ZL2CA
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2001 21:02:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Aug 2001 21:02:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 16921 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2001 21:00:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 26 Aug 2001 21:00:54 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15b6xa-0006rp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 21:56:46 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.8]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15b6xV-0006rk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 21:56:41 +0100 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id l.40.104ddebe (3866) for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:55:26 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <40.104ddebe.28babc3e@aol.com> Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:55:26 EDT Subject: Re: LF: Strange signal from DCF42? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 72 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi John, > thought I would look at the new frequency for SXV reported by Costas, and > found it overwhelmed by a very strong and wide signal at 123.69 kHz, which is > the frequency used by DCF42. However the modulation appears to be quite > different from what I have heard before. yes, it certainly looks like what I am seeing, it doesnt seem to have changed here. The line of symmetry in your pic is the center of the 2.4 kHz wide DGPS spectrum. Not sure about the actual modulation parameters, but it looks like 2379 baud PSK, given the frequency offset of the pilot at 122.500 kHz. There is a 100 Hz shift RTTY stn at 129.8 kHz, could that possibly be SXV? 73 Markus From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5032 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2001 19:10:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Aug 2001 19:10:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 18076 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2001 19:08:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 26 Aug 2001 19:08:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15b57z-0005pB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 19:59:23 +0100 Received: from [204.202.140.198] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15b57x-0005p6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 19:59:21 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gomailjtp01 ([10.212.0.161]) by mta06.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GIO004NQVDCFO@mta06.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 11:58:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 11:58:28 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Sexton" Subject: LF: Strange signal from DCF42? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <345002.998852308602.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------090503010207090406090100" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090503010207090406090100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi All, Thought I would look at the new frequency for SXV reported by Costas, and found it overwhelmed by a very strong and wide signal at 123.69 kHz, which is the frequency used by DCF42. However the modulation appears to be quite different from what I have heard before. Can anyone tell me what the modulation is. Don't know whether the reflector will allow this but I attach a pic captured with Spectrogram. 73, John, G4CNN ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com --------------090503010207090406090100 Content-Type: image/gif; name="strange signal.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="strange signal.gif" R0lGODlhYAI7ALMAAAAAAAAAxgAAzgAQzgAp0ABC1gBS1t4AAABS3gBr3gB73gCM5wCc5wCl 7wCt7xXw7CwAAAAAYAI7AAAE/jAlQ2opBGhSDCqCpglDOYRiKgZVhQaGssyKZBsiYScYqq6W C+ZiSMhmixploBpUmKnnb4M4KlvQQWLBYCx403A4MAiIzylW60cWBMicYuJjBgyKyGQioxkU JDUTPUAINgh8aAABf3OIBHIGKH4FUCNnagSVfltdepQCcQgGlCJOQYUfiDkdowQ+AKCsWK9n JnWJfRVhJEEYU38yVyGbCsWNtACPEwS3pWtnLS7O0TlbDtcNMxIYlWKmLRdBgMXGEq1PJXHn dW8CvLp93T9+qAWo25mvOkdfS2IBblKYKqPiTx4eZTggWDgKQzNcl249TBQtiyZ58wxqUzWF 14lE/t+ihWqFhgQyUPA0AJPAZ0AVGga6bWJpZpIjI0kOqVAoodCOZSM49DRA1Ce5ZQTHeCNQ qMahkM6QRckEcUWRGgV+VDQhFY1QGyBwOTFhkEEDLwkwMu2ZgYOQpsZIhTGFzK2qOzwyxQHE 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RWoBt300hShCCPtw/rJhLUWhmUmt9aQEZBdvy4rxWtZ7q8JKrsRAVOX2qhx+duHt1ZuRUVpX ujuVHo2XjM/sg4jwva9FacqvO9EAbd07rGlFzgSqMOmkKzU+RYwpohZ4Bi4bzUvhiyWtgzs+ bmeGq7HMGj10gAaRYcxBHr5WVZ+qDtGOpNe1E2bWBUGqK9S36a1WpB24fdLFABz1o4HC6CMo hWq1ezOjaR4eqVrIQlcN9IsI3aDzYyccoc4wXOa45APm49MBbueq5lPDesKNNZ6ZmKzJ1jDD vs7cqkk2A92ymD5SJrmX0RV2LslSKLgmg1+Rah92gc59G7n1JYWuXOI0BbzmRTt6A11s/gDd uZQ+O+7tKz6V2SbCwgvHK4xA766Hz9GsuMvF34piSNJisEi7egxhsWw2baCvJjpRHl5hF8hh VxasKQluqx5tp3Ebo14MMCW1i9wspPW4AoHIIPVM59yDKvY/HKztv4ToQWIBun7Op+oeBr/v rcIlAE/S87nBlHviz3VhbZxCeFDNVcYWZ8bwdXHLQpqrjhAayziwz/YubQ2pQX7HFCPkhyiW i/4KBqdjeo5S/fHCM1TXgEI9dOsoI9eGwPxkM5utuhHL5LpAlVhB7BM1gtlrdF4Xh9VGVD3y 8V27mGtRj2Zm2va5nkhCIyck++ohf8vqMbCbX6NpYgQ+rLhT/mfAKz3fFcLVwOClL5FbFpXy TNx74sjBSv2rvjEGcsfCQh0eoV67O0kIZjyEv9mzxLy7cGr0XPXA5E7EwMntUAW2No9OwdWJ DbhEao5CNuqQ0rxD4qf0rG4rk8aKARgeXnEcjv9SC0E6sVYVEusCuUtpnP0hSeF93zB5w9Uk qv2zayVB7YIZj2caqVVdh/0eZpIo1VaPvVrGbxIkEGqJ23bYy+RWZDYzWe4t9lmjLcOu0prd o7I5P3Lytqpc6olNJ04cd9x6akhQkAXdJtJmzQWMq26qMZS+VoHa66Mshory5ZCN1DDccEbb KW3vaHJ5DcLRKMcdlMRqIrz7h8Fca2OwPlZAkza8XGmSgj40lTcvaihaKS3XMcJn0b8jb7aa IHmJgxEv/sAaRsNSdN4GN+Tu2iWlHPIQ8kT5M8OUhGCRAQ2oumfaQC7EEHhIf0ItctRWMnfP YEghnfSzxUFL5rabbXEb5gBpiAAAADs= --------------090503010207090406090100-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9769 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2001 18:17:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Aug 2001 18:17:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 24135 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2001 18:15:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Aug 2001 18:15:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15b4NM-0005RW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 19:11:12 +0100 Received: from fep02-svc.mail.telepac.pt ([194.65.5.201]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15b4NI-0005RR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 19:11:08 +0100 Received: from host ([212.55.187.250]) by fep02-svc.mail.telepac.pt (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010826181653.BLIF7882.fep02-svc.mail.telepac.pt@host>; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 19:16:53 +0100 Message-ID: <002201c12e52$277bb820$c253fea9@host.telepac.pt> From: "=?iso-8859-1?B?Sm9z6SBkZSBT4Q==?=" To: "Alan Melia" , rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Thank you Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 18:10:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Alan, Brian, David et all, Thank you very much for the welcoming into the LF group. I think I probably know everyone of you personally from the Old Windsor RSGB Conventions, I have attended every year less in 2000, I have been in the LF Forum I can't remember if in 1997 or 1998. I will certainly start by getting one of those pre-amplifiers for my Japanese Black-box and try to receive some signals. Iam really looking forward to meet Brian soon. My main problem will be finding the time to do some homework in LF but I'lle go slow (I can even take some of those LF projects to the office where I work and carry on there, HI ! [hope my boss is not subscribing this list]). Ok Thanks for all and now I will try to assimilate every piece of information you have been sending me. 73 Jose CT1EEB http://www.qsl.net/4w6eb From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27814 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2001 17:32:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Aug 2001 17:32:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 1807 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2001 17:31:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 26 Aug 2001 17:31:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15b3bh-000522-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 18:21:57 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout02.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.17] helo=mailout02.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15b3b4-00051x-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 18:21:19 +0100 Received: from fwd04.sul.t-online.de by mailout02.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 15b3aO-0006IE-07; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 19:20:36 +0200 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.227.109.8]) by fwd04.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 15b3aC-0m0PNAC; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 19:20:24 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001e01c12497$f6364d20$0d9c153e@w8k3f0> <15WfE5-0EO2eeC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> <000001c124f7$31973640$ce85153e@w8k3f0> Subject: LF: g3kev/mm0alm X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 19:20:24 +0200 Message-ID: <15b3aC-0m0PNAC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Mal es Dave, guess new antenna here made it - or was it the condx ? I did read Mal with 579 and Dave 599(!) today late afternoon . had trbl with heavy qrn during qsos ( thunderstorm 150km from here between GB and G area northsea). I think Mal did read me with rst 459, correct? and Dave ? I couldn`t get it ! regards Uwe/dj8wx/jo43sv From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9935 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2001 15:34:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Aug 2001 15:34:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 27092 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2001 15:26:18 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Aug 2001 15:26:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15b1jh-0003yy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:22:05 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail-1.tiscalinet.it ([195.130.225.147] helo=mail.tiscalinet.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15b1jf-0003yt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:22:03 +0100 Received: from lyra.tiscalinet.it (62.10.87.244) by mail.tiscalinet.it (5.5.031) id 3B402B6601408C77 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 17:21:21 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010826165549.00aa1980@pop.tiscalinet.it> X-Sender: cla.po@pop.tiscalinet.it (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 17:10:36 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Claudio Pozzi" Subject: Re: LF: QRN In-reply-to: <3B889D68.3523E3AB@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 08.55 26/08/2001, you wrote: >Hi All >The static started yesterday afternoon and is just as bad this morning. >It is very severe with prolonged bursts, never heard it so bad for a >long time, considering the wx is excellent in this area with blue sky. >Perhaps there is a storm in Southern Europe or possibly Africa !! could >even be NZ. >The carriers that I mentioned the other day have not been heard since, >seems odd, but probably were local since no one else heard them. >73 de Mal/G3KEV Hi Mal and All, yesterday afternoon (25/08/2001) I was listening on 80 meters band, at 16.35 UTC all signals disappeared on 80, 40, 20 meters. I listened only few signals on 15 meters. I had a QSO with three OM in a radius of 20 km on 40 m band with 5/7 signals. Slowly the propagation path become more long, at 17.12 I had a QSO with a path of 200 km on 40 m band. The fact was noted by most OM. Someone was monitoring the 136 kHz band? Following are some report concerning the solar event, note that the propagation effect was in advance respect the maximum of solar flare (note the Type II Radio Emission in second report). 73 de Claudio >>>> Reports follow :Issued: 2001 Aug 26 1210 UTC # Prepared by the U.S. Dept. of Commerce, NOAA, Space Environment Center. # # Geophysical Alert Message # Solar-terrestrial indices for 25 August follow. Solar flux 199 and Boulder A-index 11. The Boulder K-index at 1200 UTC on 26 August was 2 (14 nT). Solar-terrestrial conditions for the last 24 hours follow. Solar activity was high. The geomagnetic field was quiet to active. A major flare occurred at 1645 UTC on 25 August. The forecast for the next 24 hours follows. Solar activity will be moderate to high. The geomagnetic field will be quiet to active. A proton event is expected :Data_list: ALTS.txt :Issued: 2001 Aug 26 1330 UT # Prepared by the U.S. Dept. of Commerce, NOAA, Space Environment Center. # Please send comments and suggestions to sec@sec.noaa.gov # Updated hourly and as Alerts and Warnings are issued. # # # Alerts and Warnings Issued in the last 24 Hours #--------------------------------------------------------------------- :ALERTS: Type II Radio Emission 25 Aug 2001 1632 UT Comment: Estimated shock velocity = 1280 km/s X-Ray event X5.3/3B/S17E34 BEG 25 Aug 2001 1623 MAX 25 Aug 2001 1645 END 25 Aug 2001 1704 UT Comment: Flare occurred in region 9591. Type IV Radio Emission 25 Aug 2001 1639 UT Comment: None Magnetic K-Index of 4 Warning valid from 25 Aug 2001 1720 to 26 Aug 2001 1800 UT Comment: None 10cm Radio Burst 8100 F.U. 25 Aug 2001 1624 UT Duration 66 Minutes Comment: Latest Penticton Noon Flux was 175 sfu. Proton Event >10MeV @ >=10pfu Warning valid from 26 Aug 2001 0800 to 27 Aug 2001 1500 UT Comment: None Magnetic A-Index >=30 Watch for 27 Aug 2001 UT Comment: None Magnetic A-Index >=30 Watch for 28 Aug 2001 UT Comment: None Magnetic K-Index of 4 Observed 25 Aug 2001 from 1500 to 1800 UT Comment: None :Product: Report of Solar-Geophysical Activity :Issued: 2001 Aug 25 2210 UT # Prepared jointly by the U.S. Dept. of Commerce, NOAA, #Space Environment Center and the U.S. Air Force. # Joint USAF/NOAA Report of Solar and Geophysical Activity SDF Number 237 Issued at 2200Z on 25 Aug 2001 IA. Analysis of Solar Active Regions and Activity from 24/2100Z to 25/2100Z: Solar activity has been high. Region 9591 (S19E32) produced several M-class flares and an X5/3b event at 25/1645 UTC. The event had an associated 8100 sfu tenflare and a Type II and Type IV radio sweep. SOHO/LASCO images observed a well defined coronal mass ejection with this event. This region continues to develop and retains a large Fki beta-gamma-delta configuration. Region 9596 (N23E79) was numbered today. The observed Penticton 10.7 cm flux for today may also be slightly enhanced as a result of the earlier event. IB. Solar Activity Forecast: Solar activity is expected to be moderate to high with Region 9591 producing M-class flares and a chance for another major flare from this region. IIA. Geophysical Activity Summary 24/2100Z to 25/2100Z: The geomagnetic field has been quiet to active through the period. IIB. Geophysical Activity Forecast: The geomagnetic field is expected to be unsettled to active for 26 August due to possible coronal hole affects. Active to minor storm conditions are expected for 27 and 28 August as a result of the X-class event at 25/1645 UTC. A greater than 10 MeV proton event is also possible on 26 August from the activity today. III. Event Probabilities 26 Aug-28 Aug Class M 75/75/75 Class X 10/10/10 Proton 75/75/50 PCAF yellow IV. Penticton 10.7 cm Flux Observed 25 Aug 199 Predicted 26 Aug-28 Aug 190/195/200 90 Day Mean 25 Aug 152 V. Geomagnetic A Indices Observed Afr/Ap 24 Aug 005/004 Estimated Afr/Ap 25 Aug 008/007 Predicted Afr/Ap 26 Aug-28 Aug 015/015-035/035-030/030 VI. Geomagnetic Activity Probabilities 26 Aug-28 Aug A. Middle Latitudes Active 25/40/35 Minor storm 05/30/20 Major-severe storm 01/20/10 B. High Latitudes Active 30/45/40 Minor storm 10/35/25 Major-severe storm 05/20/15 <<< end of reports ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Claudio Pozzi http://www.qsl.net/ik2pii happy Linux user E-Mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24626 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2001 13:08:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Aug 2001 13:08:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 11901 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2001 13:08:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Aug 2001 13:08:08 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15azZZ-0002h9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 14:03:29 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from asterix.tee.gr ([212.70.193.140]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15azZX-0002gz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 14:03:27 +0100 Received: from teeserver.tee.gr (teeserver.tee.gr [212.70.193.130]) by asterix.tee.gr (8.11.5/8.11.5) with ESMTP id f7QD2Zn03539 for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:02:36 +0300 Received: from s9o9f0.eexi.gr ([212.70.200.70]) by teeserver.tee.gr (Netscape Messaging Server 4.1) with ESMTP id GIOEY900.TDG for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:03:45 +0300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010826155931.00a763c0@aurora.eexi.gr> X-Sender: sv1xv@aurora.eexi.gr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 16:02:37 +0300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Costas Krallis SV1XV" Subject: LF: News from Greece In-reply-to: <000401c12e17$e646a700$c529f7c2@zetnet.co.uk> References: <001801c12db5$d0c53480$0f23fea9@host.telepac.pt> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: There are news from Greece regarding the 136 kHz band. About a week ago the Helelnic Navy signal on 135.8 kHz disappeared and a new FSK signal (possibly from the same source) appeared on 124.6 kHz. Costas +------------------------------------------------------------+ | Costas Krallis SV1XV * LOC KM18UA | | P.O.Box 3066 * E-Mail: sv1xv@eexi.gr | | GR-10210 Athens * PGP key: 0x3BDBBC34 | | GREECE * http://www.qsl.net/sv1xv/ | | * http://w4u.eexi.gr/~sv1xv/ | +------------------------------------------------------------+ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20978 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2001 12:44:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Aug 2001 12:44:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 4755 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2001 12:44:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Aug 2001 12:44:19 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15azCE-0002Wj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 13:39:22 +0100 Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.163]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15azCD-0002We-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 13:39:21 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id l.12d.39d39e0 (4235) for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 08:38:05 -0400 (EDT) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <12d.39d39e0.28ba47ac@aol.com> Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 08:38:04 EDT Subject: LF: Re: Re: Carriers, remote RX, antenna To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 10506 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi Larry, Bob, and the group,

Thanks Larry for the info about your remote RX. It is very helpful for me to
hear someone else is using such a system with such good success. The main
problem here is that the club station DF0WD is not private property, it is
located on a public soccer field which is visited by hundreds of very curious
people. Close to this location are some fields and small woods, where the
remote RX could be installed ("close" meaning a few hundred meters). I
thought about building a small unit which could be camouflaged as a milk-can
or similar.
For several reasons, it's impossible to use optical fibre cable for the
remote RX.
The suggested SAW filter for 433 MHz seems to be an alternative for building
a simple and low-power TX. I have a very small ultra-low-power transmitters
for 70cm here (used to control lamps etc), but it seems to use On/Off-keying
for the digital modulation. The oscillator uses an SAW filter and -as it
seems- cannot be frequency modulated. Using phase modulation at 433MHz will
certainly not work because the modulation index would be too low for a good
SNR. Any suggestions  ?



To Bob, ZL2CA:
> Several ZL amateurs, including myself, have had quite good results in
> minimising LF QRM by using an active whip antenna sited somewhat
> away from houses (and their mains wiring).  Attention needs to be paid
> to RF isolation of the power supply for the antenna, and using balance
> RF transmission lines, otherwise the mains QRM can still get to the
> antenna via the shack and feeder.  5 metres or so separation of an active
> whip from house wiring can greatly reduce the mains-conducted QRM,
> but is still good for receiving wanted DX signals.
Thanks for this info as well. I have never tried an active whip antenna,
because I thought the QRM mainly travelled via E-field; so I favoured a
loop-type antenna with the benefit of nulling out at least one of my enemies
;-)
I have used several kinds of RX isolation, the best was a large ring core
covered with foam tape before winding the primary and secondary coils to keep
the capacitance as low as possible. Both coils were separated from each other
as far as possible, but the remaining capacitive coupling was still too high.
(I checked this using battery power and disconnecting the mains  supply
outside the clubhouse).
BUT - I didn't use a balanced line from the RX loop to the RX, just 50 Ohms
coax with two isolation transformers as described above on both ends of the
cable. What kind of balanced RF lines do you use Bob ? Is it shielded with
two center conductors or is it unshielded like the old "240 Ohm" cable ?

Kind regards, and thanks for all info.
 Wolf DL4YHF.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21897 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2001 12:38:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Aug 2001 12:38:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 16413 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2001 12:36:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 26 Aug 2001 12:36:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15az3g-0002PR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 13:30:32 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.62]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15az3f-0002PM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 13:30:32 +0100 Received: from 66-44-54-35.s35.tnt1.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.54.35] helo=nanandsandy) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.32 #2) id 15az31-0000LS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 08:29:51 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 08:36:56 -0400 Message-ID: <01C12E0A.43D88AE0.esanders@erols.com> From: "Nan and Sandy Sanders" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re. 73KHz Beacon Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 08:36:52 -0400 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Two good sites for solar data. http://sec.noaa.gov/today.html http://spaceweather.com/ Sandy WB5MMB ---------- From: Laurie Mayhead[SMTP:laurie@g3aqc.freeserve.co.uk] Reply To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Sunday, August 26, 2001 4:40 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. 73KHz Beacon <> Hi All, Well as it turned out it was not good timing! Alan reported the Kp index up to 4, still I went ahead and Brian reported seeing the signal,although it was not brilliant. I need a source of more up to date solar data,the source I use, the DXLC web page seems to be 24hours old Do you have any better ideas Alan?. If anyone wants to try a QSO on 73 or would just like a signal, I am around all day today. 73s Laurie. . From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 505 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2001 10:20:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Aug 2001 10:20:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 17062 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2001 10:19:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Aug 2001 10:19:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15awww-0001E1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 11:15:26 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15awwv-0001Dw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 11:15:25 +0100 Received: from abc (man-s070.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.41.197]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id f7QAEiL15404 for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 11:14:45 +0100 Message-ID: <000401c12e17$e646a700$c529f7c2@zetnet.co.uk> From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001801c12db5$d0c53480$0f23fea9@host.telepac.pt> Subject: LF: Re: newcomer Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 11:01:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by zetnet.co.uk id f7QAEiL15404 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi José, Welcome to LF. Nevada is a retailer of amateur radio gear. The 'First' TX is made by Ropex, a Dutch company. I believe there is a review at http://www.wireless.org.uk/ropex.htm but I can't get at it this morning. 73 de John Rabson G3PAI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19214 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2001 08:48:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Aug 2001 08:48:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 16469 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2001 08:47:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Aug 2001 08:47:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15avSC-0000OU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 09:39:36 +0100 Received: from mail6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15avSB-0000OP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 09:39:35 +0100 Received: from modem-7.amandil.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.103.135] helo=g3aqc) by mail6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15avRX-0004c8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 09:38:55 +0100 Message-ID: <002301c12e0a$da439f60$8767883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. 73KHz Beacon Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 09:40:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi All,
Well as it turned out it was not  good timing!  Alan reported the Kp index up to 4, still I went ahead and Brian reported seeing the signal,although it was not brilliant. I need a source of more up to date solar data,the source I use, the DXLC web page seems to be 24hours old Do you have any better ideas Alan?.
 
If anyone wants to try a QSO on 73 or would just like a signal,
I am around all day today.  73s Laurie.    .  
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9732 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2001 08:05:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Aug 2001 08:05:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 8851 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2001 08:03:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 26 Aug 2001 08:03:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15aumy-0008WH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 08:57:00 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15aumv-0008WC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 08:56:57 +0100 Received: from ldsas06-70-121-117.cw-visp.com ([212.137.121.117] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15aueF-00046x-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 07:48:00 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B889D68.3523E3AB@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 07:55:37 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: QRN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All The static started yesterday afternoon and is just as bad this morning. It is very severe with prolonged bursts, never heard it so bad for a long time, considering the wx is excellent in this area with blue sky. Perhaps there is a storm in Southern Europe or possibly Africa !! could even be NZ. The carriers that I mentioned the other day have not been heard since, seems odd, but probably were local since no one else heard them. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19552 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2001 01:53:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Aug 2001 01:53:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 2254 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2001 01:51:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 26 Aug 2001 01:51:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ap0z-0005B6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 02:47:05 +0100 Received: from tomts6.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.26] helo=tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ap0x-0005Av-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 02:47:04 +0100 Received: from server1 ([216.209.138.47]) by tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010826014552.CIOS3759.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Sat, 25 Aug 2001 21:45:52 -0400 Message-ID: <001a01c12dd0$d78946b0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <149.7b0813.28b8e0b8@aol.com> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Carriers Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 21:45:45 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Wolf: > I already > considered building a battery-powered remove RX with a 70cm-FM-link to the > main station (using a cheap 70cm-LPD handy). The problem is finding a quiet > remote RX side where the RX cannot be vandalized or stolen. I have been doing this now continuously for the last 11 years and have done it for about 18 years over the last 40 years. I have used both linear upconverters as well as Receiver Audio to FM transmitters. I have never had any of my active equipment stolen, I once lost the exciter, driver, and power supplies for an EME station I had at a remote site. I have in the last two years used both fibre cable for the back haul as well as an infrared link (infrared is no good in the daytime hi). My distances have been from 1000 ft to over 20 miles. Your biggest issue will be to get all the S+N/N ratio that you can manage - my LF QSO to Europe last winter was partially backhauled on an FM link on 443 MHz from the remote ICOM 706 MK II G I was using. I regularly use some surplus cable television equipment that distributes via Fibre Optic cable, it works well and the transmit end is very low power. I can get three weeks of continuous service out of a very large truck type battery between charges. My HF CW station is always remote controlled for the last 11 years now. There are some very low power SAW filter FM rigs on 433, 418 MHz and 902-914 rigs - they are rated for only a few hundred yards. Some of us have put surplus Cellular amplifiers to bring these up to about 6 to 8 watts output and they are great over a 5 mile path. You might find these very useful. If you have any specific questions let me know, I will try to help out. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17996 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2001 01:10:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Aug 2001 01:10:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 14599 invoked from network); 26 Aug 2001 01:09:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 26 Aug 2001 01:09:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15aoLH-0004uF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 02:03:59 +0100 Received: from mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.17]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15aoLF-0004mw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 02:03:58 +0100 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.178.49]) by mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010826010244.YICD632.mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 13:02:44 +1200 Message-ID: <008201c12dca$d5b90240$88b21bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <149.7b0813.28b8e0b8@aol.com> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Carriers Date: Sun, 26 Aug 2001 13:00:13 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Wolf DL4YLF,
 
OK on receiving 50 Hz hum modulation from TV sets.
 
>I guess most of the QRM travels over the mains supply lines. I already
>considered building a battery-powered remove RX with a 70cm-FM-link to the
>main station (using a cheap 70cm-LPD handy). The problem is finding a quiet
>remote RX side where the RX cannot be vandalized or stolen.

Several ZL amateurs, including myself, have had quite good results in minimising LF QRM by using an active whip antenna sited somewhat away from houses (and their mains wiring).  Attention needs to be paid to RF isolation of the power supply for the antenna, and using balance RF transmission lines, otherwise the mains QRM can still get to the antenna via the shack and feeder.  5 metres or so separation of an active whip from house wiring can greatly reduce the mains-conducted QRM, but is still good for receiving wanted DX signals.
 
73, Bob ZL2CA
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19276 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2001 23:42:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Aug 2001 23:42:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 17980 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2001 23:41:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Aug 2001 23:41:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15amtz-0003yS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 00:31:43 +0100 Received: from fep02-svc.mail.telepac.pt ([194.65.5.201]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15amty-0003yN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 00:31:42 +0100 Received: from host ([212.55.189.108]) by fep02-svc.mail.telepac.pt (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010825233742.HXF16974.fep02-svc.mail.telepac.pt@host> for ; Sun, 26 Aug 2001 00:37:42 +0100 Message-ID: <001801c12db5$d0c53480$0f23fea9@host.telepac.pt> From: "=?iso-8859-1?B?Sm9z6SBkZSBT4Q==?=" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: newcomer Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 23:32:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi I'm a newcomer in this LF matters, just recently have been told by my Telecom services (ICP) that I was going to be authorized to use 136 Khz in a Amateur secondary basis, so Iam still trying to catch up with things now ! My first question is if any of you had any experiences with the British company "Nevada" transmitter for 136.5 Khz called "first" ? If so, any further information will be most apreciated. Regards, Jose CT1EEB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20632 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2001 17:18:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Aug 2001 17:18:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 21110 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2001 17:16:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 25 Aug 2001 17:16:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15agz2-0000YB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 25 Aug 2001 18:12:32 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15agz1-0000Y6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 25 Aug 2001 18:12:31 +0100 Received: from ldsas16-80-131-115.cw-visp.com ([212.137.131.115] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15agqQ-0005GZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 25 Aug 2001 17:03:39 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B87B80F.B09BE5@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 15:37:03 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: carriers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks to all that responded about the carriers on 136 khz and beyond. It could well be a rogue TV as suggested. I can work along side them but its better without!!!!!!!!!! I have not heard them today. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20807 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2001 15:53:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Aug 2001 15:53:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 29017 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2001 15:52:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Aug 2001 15:52:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15afe9-0008GT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 25 Aug 2001 16:46:53 +0100 Received: from mail3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15afe8-0008GO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 25 Aug 2001 16:46:52 +0100 Received: from modem-118.brodda.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.143.246] helo=g3aqc) by mail3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15afdU-0002y4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 25 Aug 2001 16:46:12 +0100 Message-ID: <000001c12d7d$5fcb3780$f68f883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 73 KHz Beacon Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 16:43:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi All,
The Kp index is very low at present so I will run the 73KHz Beacon tonight. Starting at 2300 UTC on 71,921.5KHz. I will try DFCW with 60sec. dots.The power with the Decca is about 250mW so should be a better signal than previously. 73s Laurie
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9839 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2001 12:33:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Aug 2001 12:33:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 26782 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2001 12:32:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 25 Aug 2001 12:32:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15acXr-0006Xu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 25 Aug 2001 13:28:11 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15acXp-0006Xp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 25 Aug 2001 13:28:10 +0100 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15acXB-0008qE-0Y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 25 Aug 2001 13:27:30 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B879A02.A5F09400@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 13:28:50 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: carriers References: <3B867C3D.42A9DB5B@netscapeonline.co.uk> <006d01c12d53$e09ff780$0eef7ad5@dave> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave G3YMC wrote: > I was also listening yesterday and can confirm that nothing was heard > here in Bracknell. As with Alan and Dave, I did not hear the carriers either. It would seem to be a noise source that is local to Mal. But Wolf's report that LF noise from TV sets can travel hundreds of metres is a concern. In addition, Wolf wrote: > As alternative, I am very curious about Steve's and Rob's noise > canceller experiments. IMO, cancelling more than one QRM source > is a tough job. Yes, cancelling, say, two QRM sources, requires two cancellers, with a distinct sample of each noise source. It is also very difficult to obtain a large enough sample of the noise if the noise source is hundreds of metres away. Interestingly, I've had the greatest success with my noise canceller where the QRM has been conducted via the electricity supply ('mains'), from a neighbouring house into mine. Then, there is no problem obtaining a sample of the noise! > I heard Bob back on the band this morning, perhaps he is now having > some success with his noise canceller. Bob is indeed having success, but he now needs a pre-amp to compensate for the loss through the canceller. So Bob has ordered a G0MRF receive pre-amp. Meanwhile, Bob will be conducting more experiments to improve the sample of QRM being fed to the noise canceller. Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27005 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2001 11:15:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Aug 2001 11:15:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 26117 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2001 11:15:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 25 Aug 2001 11:15:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15abHb-0005sP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 25 Aug 2001 12:07:19 +0100 Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.36]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15abHa-0005sK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 25 Aug 2001 12:07:18 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id l.149.7b0813 (17530) for ; Sat, 25 Aug 2001 07:06:32 -0400 (EDT) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <149.7b0813.28b8e0b8@aol.com> Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 07:06:32 EDT Subject: LF: Re: Carriers To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 10506 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi Mal and Alan,

I can strongly confirm such QRM from modern TV sets. That also seems to be
the reason why some days I "don't have ears" when operation from DF0WD.
On a spectrogram, you can see the 50- or 100-Hz-spaced lines drifting around
slowly.
Also confirm the range of these nasty carriers: they can indeed exceed the
range of 100 yards (~meters). The clubstation DF0WD is about 150mtrs away
from the next house, but a part of QRM seems to correlate with the TV prime
time. On the waterfall its impressive to see a group of carriers disappearing
instantly after the main evening news at 20:15 local.

I guess most of the QRM travels over the mains supply lines. I already
considered building a battery-powered remove RX with a 70cm-FM-link to the
main station (using a cheap 70cm-LPD handy). The problem is finding a quiet
remote RX side where the RX cannot be vandalized or stolen.

As alternative, I am very curious about Steve's and Rob's noise canceller
experiments. IMO, cancelling more than one QRM source is a tough job.

Good luck to all,
 hope to c u  on 136kHz,
   Wolf  DL4YHF.

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20666 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2001 11:01:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Aug 2001 11:01:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 16160 invoked from network); 25 Aug 2001 11:00:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 25 Aug 2001 11:00:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ab1f-0005jG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 25 Aug 2001 11:50:51 +0100 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ab1b-0005jB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 25 Aug 2001 11:50:47 +0100 Received: from [213.122.239.27] (helo=dave) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15ab0x-0000DV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 25 Aug 2001 11:50:08 +0100 Message-ID: <006d01c12d53$e09ff780$0eef7ad5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3B867C3D.42A9DB5B@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: carriers Date: Sat, 25 Aug 2001 11:44:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC G3KEV wrote: >Someone keeps switching multiple carriers on/off at irregular intervals >on the 136 khz band but it entends beyond the band also I was also listening yesterday and can confirm that nothing was heard here in Bracknell. I suspect it is some local noise to Mal, probably TV or digital cable associated - similar to what Bob G8RW and Ron G6RO have suffered from recently. I heard Bob back on the band this morning, perhaps he is now having some success with his noise canceller. 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25814 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2001 22:51:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Aug 2001 22:51:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 1637 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2001 22:51:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 24 Aug 2001 22:51:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15aPfS-0007dK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 23:43:10 +0100 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15aPfQ-0007dF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 23:43:09 +0100 Received: from [62.7.89.126] (helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #6) id 15aPem-0006E1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 23:42:29 +0100 Message-ID: <003001c12ced$dd5e4a60$7879073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: re Carriers Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 23:14:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Mal , I have been listening most of the day and have only heard testing from Finbar this morning.( who you worked and is clean). I have been watching at the bottom of the band for the return of the Greek Naval station, which has been off-air for a few days now. I wonder if you have a neighbour who has just got a new wide screen TV. These produce and radiate power supply switching signals at around 35kHz and its harmonics. The main signal is modulated by about 4 or 8 sidebands at 100Hz and often also 50Hz (often weaker than the 100Hz lines) spacing. I believe that the radiation is via the coax braid on the aerial, it certainly can travel quite a fair distance....100s of yards. Older conventional TV sets dont seem to give this kind of trouble. So much for EU EMC legislation. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1792 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2001 18:57:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Aug 2001 18:57:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 11870 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2001 18:56:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 24 Aug 2001 18:56:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15aLz2-0005R5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 19:47:08 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15aLyz-0005R0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 19:47:05 +0100 Received: from ldsas03-67-118-10.cw-visp.com ([212.137.118.10] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15aLqP-0000jU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 18:38:13 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B867C3D.42A9DB5B@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 17:09:33 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: carriers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Someone keeps switching multiple carriers on/off at irregular intervals on the 136 khz band but it entends beyond the band also. Maybe a faulty commercial tx in the vicinity of the amateur band, or someone testing, otherwise the band is in excellent condx this evening, no qrn, noise floor very low although this is a quiet location anyway. Worked EI0CF earlier this afternoon, and F6CNI early evening. Both qso's solid each way, and Andy was running qrp. Could do with more acty during the week both daytime and evening. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6949 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2001 09:22:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Aug 2001 09:22:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 6657 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2001 09:21:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 24 Aug 2001 09:21:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15aD19-00002q-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:12:43 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15aD0u-00002g-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:12:28 +0100 Received: from ldsas11-75-126-69.cw-visp.com ([212.137.126.69] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15aCsK-0003cv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:03:36 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B85F60A.53614A73@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 07:36:58 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: 500 KHZ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I understand that a request to the RA for a few khz of the 500 khz band for the radio amateur service would be considered favourably. Some requests have been made previously by individuals for part of the 500 khz ex marine band but there were objections from some agencies whose ships were still using the band like Singapore, Malta and Russia plus a few other stragglers. The band now seems to be void of marine activity in this region and if there are no objections on the grounds that it is needed still by some agencies for standby then with luck we ought to get an allocation in the near future. Other parties are also interested in the band but more long term rather than immediate. There are a lot of old redundant 500 khz marine transmitters about, get them out and get ready. This topic was heard being discussed on 80 metres recently certainly the band for information and education !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19328 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2001 09:22:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Aug 2001 09:22:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 6318 invoked from network); 24 Aug 2001 09:21:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 24 Aug 2001 09:21:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15aD1D-00002t-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:12:47 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15aD13-00002l-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 10:12:38 +0100 Received: from ldsas11-75-126-69.cw-visp.com ([212.137.126.69] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15aCsT-0003fH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 24 Aug 2001 09:03:46 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B85F613.71240F61@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Fri, 24 Aug 2001 07:37:07 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: 136 info Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All When I listened on 136 khz this morning the band was covered in carriers approx 50 hz apart and a transmission on 135.6 khz consisted of on/off keyed revs at varying speeds, from very slow to very fast then it settled on the fast mode. Maybe this is a faulty tx and causing the carrier problem or it could be something new. I did not have time to do a proper technical investigation with the spectrum analyser and speed measurements. Did anyone else observe this acty. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6378 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2001 13:25:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Aug 2001 13:25:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 3241 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2001 13:24:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Aug 2001 13:24:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ZuN7-00060y-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:18:09 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ZuMW-00060r-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:17:33 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v4.0.0.R) for ; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:15:28 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 14:15:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: 136k article Message-ID: <3B850FFE.17517.1120620@localhost> In-reply-to: <92.197137e1.28b53286@aol.com> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G0MRF wrote: > Meanwhile, The RSGB seem to have put LF on the back burner.- I can't remember > the last constructional feature on LF in RadCom, while the publicity for the HF > convention in October has no mention of LF at all. > How refreshing to see the ARRL applying some subtle pressure on the > authorities and giving LF a little positive discrimination. I am sure that David expects me to react to this one. I don't know exactly what is in the RadCom Editor's in-tray, but I do know there is a large backlog of articles. I will check tomorrow (he is out today at the printers) to see what he has on LF. The magazine recently ran an article on the Puckeridge experiments. I have ensured that every news-worthy LF story has been covered on the GB2RS news bulletin, and there have been several of these this year. As for the HF Convention, the detailed information (see http://www.rsgb.org/hfc2001/programme.htm) shows the two LF lectures under "Technology". The full lecture programme, still under preparation, shows the details as follows: Stream C Saturday 0930 LF Propagation and some effects of Solar Disturbances: Alan Melia, G3NYK. 1045 The 136kHz Transatlantic QSOs: Peter Dodd, G3LDO et al 1200 LF Forum: Chairman John Gould, G3WKL (Stream C continues with two lectures that may be of interest to the experimenters on this reflector) 1500 Digital Voice at HF, and Related Techniques: Andy Talbot, G4JNT 1615 HF Datamodes via the Soundcard: Phil Cooper, GU0SUP Admittedly, the main Convention page fails to mention the LF Village that will (presumably) be the meeting point for all lowfers on both Saturday and Sunday. I will try to get that fixed. Lastly, some of you may be aware that there are behind the scenes activities by the RSGB to obtain another band in the LF/MF region. The ARRL cover is the first one that has ever featured LF. The 73kHz band made the cover of RadCom when the first permits were issued. In the meantime, please bombard the RadCom editor with LF technical articles - the texts of the HF Convention lectures are obvious candidates. I will do what I can to get them published, though I won't be the editor's boss for much longer. Mike Dennison, G3XDV Publications Manager * RadCom * GB2RS News * * RSGB Books and CDs * * RSGB Online Web Site * Radio Society of Great Britain Lambda House, Cranborne Road Potters Bar, Herts UK, EN6 3JE Tel: +44 (0) 1707 659015; Fax: +44 (0) 1707 645105 www.rsgb.org RSGB - UK AMATEUR RADIO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23841 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2001 07:58:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Aug 2001 07:58:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 18988 invoked from network); 23 Aug 2001 07:57:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Aug 2001 07:57:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Zp8f-0002qH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:42:53 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Zp8c-0002qC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:42:50 +0100 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15Zp7y-00069E-0Y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:42:10 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B84B55F.BA8A80EE@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 23 Aug 2001 08:48:47 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: The ANC-4 Noise Canceller at 136 kHz References: <3B7FD7FB.E4F3F8D6@alg.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, Regarding the local QRM at G8RW: I am delighted to report that Bob G8RW telephoned me last night to say that he has already had some encouraging results with the ANC-4 Noise Canceller. But more work needs to be done to improve the noise antenna, and to compensate for the signal loss through the ANC-4. Accordingly, I have posted a short update at: http://www.alg.demon.co.uk/radio/136/anc4test.htm Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25525 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2001 17:47:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Aug 2001 17:47:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 1242 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2001 17:46:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 22 Aug 2001 17:46:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Zbxb-0003Zq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:38:35 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Zbxb-0003Zl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:38:35 +0100 Received: from ldsas19-83-134-105.cw-visp.com ([212.137.134.105] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15Zboy-0005Cy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:29:41 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B83C7EC.6911BE15@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:55:41 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: active Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All If anyone is interested I am active during daytime at various times on 136 khz normal cw. It seems all activity at present is at the weekends. Last weekend the band was very busy and the Greek teletype was strong with me daytime both on Sat/Sun but not heard it during the daytime since, it might be qrt or condx have changed. I have 73 khz available also but not heard anyone lately. 73 de Mal/G3KEV/SCARBOROUGH From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25476 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2001 17:47:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Aug 2001 17:47:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 23587 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2001 17:46:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 22 Aug 2001 17:46:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Zbxm-0003Zx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:38:46 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Zbxm-0003Zs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 18:38:46 +0100 Received: from ldsas19-83-134-105.cw-visp.com ([212.137.134.105] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15ZbpD-0005DK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:29:55 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B83C913.BD73DC09@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:00:36 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: 136 khz acty Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All Most of the time when I am active on 136 khz I also listen on either 3530 or 7030 khz and indicate QSX and freq. I often call CQ during the daytime mid week. If anyone is interested give me a call. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27452 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2001 16:14:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Aug 2001 16:14:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 1653 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2001 16:12:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 22 Aug 2001 16:12:54 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ZaXh-0002lg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:07:45 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.35]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ZaXg-0002lY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 17:07:44 +0100 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31_r1.4.) id l.92.197137e1 (4250) for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:06:30 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <92.197137e1.28b53286@aol.com> Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 12:06:30 EDT Subject: LF: 136k article To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 107 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: QST this month has a lead feature on the AMRAD active antenna. The 7 page colour article is given a front cover 'lead' showing the antenna with a radio tuned to 136.75 together with a laptop running Argo. Meanwhile, The RSGB seem to have put LF on the back burner.- I can't remember the last constructional feature on LF in RadCom, while the publicity for the HF convention in October has no mention of LF at all. How refreshing to see the ARRL applying some subtle pressure on the authorities and giving LF a little positive discrimination. Congratulations to Frank Gentges and AMRAD for an excellent piece of work. 73 David From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12790 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2001 15:26:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Aug 2001 15:26:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 17001 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2001 15:24:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 22 Aug 2001 15:24:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ZZkk-0002Dn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:17:10 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ZZkg-0002Di-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:17:06 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v4.0.0.R) for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:09:50 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 16:09:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Change of e-mail (Correction) Message-ID: <3B83D94B.32325.1800C5F@localhost> In-reply-to: <3B83C6BF.31655.1379909@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I wrote: > Please amend your address books to show =only= my home e-mail: > mike.dennison@ntlworld.net, as publications@rsgb.org.uk will go to someone else, > and mike.dennison@rsgb.org.uk will not guarantee to reach me quickly. WRONG!!! The correct e-mail is mike.dennison@ntlworld.com Sorry Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10264 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2001 14:29:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Aug 2001 14:29:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 24922 invoked from network); 22 Aug 2001 14:27:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 22 Aug 2001 14:27:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ZYaI-0001XH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:02:18 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ZYaE-0001XC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 15:02:15 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v4.0.0.R) for ; Wed, 22 Aug 2001 14:50:41 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 22 Aug 2001 14:50:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Change of e-mail Message-ID: <3B83C6BF.31655.1379909@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At the end of August, the RSGB will no longer have a "Publications Manager" so I am being made redundant. In fact, I will not be leaving RSGB HQ immediately as I have accepted a three-month contract on a job not connected with books and magazines. Please amend your address books to show =only= my home e-mail: mike.dennison@ntlworld.net, as publications@rsgb.org.uk will go to someone else, and mike.dennison@rsgb.org.uk will not guarantee to reach me quickly. And if anyone knows of any jobs within 50 miles of Hertfordshire, editing magazines or web sites, starting late 2001 / early 2002, please let me know. 73 Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9243 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2001 20:27:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Aug 2001 20:27:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 15788 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2001 20:25:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Aug 2001 20:25:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ZHvr-0000KQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 21:15:27 +0100 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ZHvq-0000KK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 21:15:26 +0100 Received: from [62.7.61.241] (helo=default) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #9) id 15ZHv6-0007c0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 21:14:41 +0100 Message-ID: <000201c12a7d$c0a4f800$f13d073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: SXV off-air Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 20:40:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Fellas, dont rip your rigs apart.....SXV went off air at about 2245z last evening the 20th. Fortunately G3KEV and G6RO have been doing sterling work keeping the band alive today. The break is unfortunately timed as I was hoping to correlate the signal strength from SXV over the next few days, with the changes wrought by the CME impact on Friday ( which drove the Kp index up to 7 ). Friday's event was a relatively isolated one in what has been a strangely quiet summer for this point of a solar cycle. Earlier in the year the geomagnetic events were running into one another, making it difficult to decide which particular event was affecting the conditions. Plots will be posted to Rik again for mounting on his web site as soon as SXV returns. www.qsl.net/on7yd Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4208 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2001 07:04:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Aug 2001 07:04:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 7722 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2001 07:04:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Aug 2001 07:04:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Z5Uf-0000y1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 07:58:33 +0100 Received: from mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.17]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Z5Ud-0000xw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 07:58:32 +0100 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.178.27]) by mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010821065719.BJGK1934257.mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:57:19 +1200 Message-ID: <000701c12a0e$84c9a200$1bb21bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001e01c12497$f6364d20$0d9c153e@w8k3f0><15WfE5-0EO2eeC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com><000001c124f7$31973640$ce85153e@w8k3f0><004c01c1250b$b81d9920$41b21bca@xtr743187><000601c12763$abca6c20$8cb21bca@rvernall> <3.0.5.32.20010821054346.008ded80@pop3.esoterica.pt> Subject: Re: LF: 183 in ZL Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 18:56:38 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Brian, > >183 kHz has once again been receivedafter ZL sunrise, fading out around 1925 > >Z. I was too late in turning the gear on to find out when the signal first > >arrived this morning. So far I've found reception of 183 kHz around ZL > >sunrise to be good on three samples of three. > > Have you tried ZL sunset? Yes, and got nil, but with current sunrise/sunset times there is no "dark path to Germany" around ZL sunset. In six months time it will have "changed around". 73, Bob From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4708 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2001 05:59:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Aug 2001 05:59:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 11045 invoked from network); 21 Aug 2001 05:58:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Aug 2001 05:58:44 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Z4M0-0000I2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 06:45:32 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rhun.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.26]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Z4Lz-0000Hx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 06:45:31 +0100 Received: from srv17slx.esoterica.pt (srv17slx.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.47]) by rhun.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f7L5ipN21482 for ; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 06:44:51 +0100 (WEST) Received: from slave2 (por026.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.26]) by srv17slx.esoterica.pt (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA08364 for ; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 06:44:50 +0100 (WET DST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010821054346.008ded80@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 05:43:46 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: 183 in ZL In-reply-to: <000701c129af$f1290ee0$3cb51bca@rvernall> References: <001e01c12497$f6364d20$0d9c153e@w8k3f0> <15WfE5-0EO2eeC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> <000001c124f7$31973640$ce85153e@w8k3f0> <004c01c1250b$b81d9920$41b21bca@xtr743187> <000601c12763$abca6c20$8cb21bca@rvernall> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Bob, >183 kHz has once again been receivedafter ZL sunrise, fading out around 1925 >Z. I was too late in turning the gear on to find out when the signal first >arrived this morning. So far I've found reception of 183 kHz around ZL >sunrise to be good on three samples of three. Have you tried ZL sunset? 73, Brian 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19308 invoked from network); 20 Aug 2001 19:47:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Aug 2001 19:47:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 16863 invoked from network); 20 Aug 2001 19:47:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Aug 2001 19:47:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Yuvp-00039W-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 20:41:53 +0100 Received: from mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.17]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Yuvn-00039Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 20:41:52 +0100 Received: from rvernall ([202.27.181.60]) by mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010820194039.PPGJ1319844.mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz@rvernall> for ; Tue, 21 Aug 2001 07:40:39 +1200 Message-ID: <000701c129af$f1290ee0$3cb51bca@rvernall> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001e01c12497$f6364d20$0d9c153e@w8k3f0> <15WfE5-0EO2eeC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> <000001c124f7$31973640$ce85153e@w8k3f0> <004c01c1250b$b81d9920$41b21bca@xtr743187> <000601c12763$abca6c20$8cb21bca@rvernall> Subject: LF: 183 in ZL Date: Tue, 21 Aug 2001 07:39:23 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, 183 kHz has once again been receivedafter ZL sunrise, fading out around 1925 Z. I was too late in turning the gear on to find out when the signal first arrived this morning. So far I've found reception of 183 kHz around ZL sunrise to be good on three samples of three. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10158 invoked from network); 20 Aug 2001 18:42:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Aug 2001 18:42:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 527 invoked from network); 20 Aug 2001 18:41:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Aug 2001 18:41:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Ytlr-0002SJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 19:27:31 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Ytlq-0002SE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 19:27:30 +0100 Received: from ldsas15-79-130-131.cw-visp.com ([212.137.130.131] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15YtdL-0003Ux-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:18:44 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B814735.9F9618AC@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 18:21:57 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: acty Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: HI All on LF Just popped back over the weekend on 136 and was surprised at the amount of activity. Stns active were G3BDQ,G6RO,MM0ALM,F6BWO,EI0CF,IK5ZPV, SM6PXJ,DF2BC,DJ9IE,DF6NM,DF0WD,DF2BC,DF3FDO and tonight worked ON6ND. Heard a lot of other G stns but not worked. Band acty on 136 khz seems to be picking up. I can be qrv on 73 khz if anyone wants Scarborough. I listened for a while but hrd nil over the weekend. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2152 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2001 23:58:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Aug 2001 23:58:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 24490 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2001 23:58:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Aug 2001 23:58:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15YcN6-0000kk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 00:52:48 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15YcN4-0000kf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 20 Aug 2001 00:52:46 +0100 Received: from [213.1.87.114] (helo=default) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #9) id 15YZI8-0003b6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 21:35:28 +0100 Message-ID: <000201c128ee$5879f680$725701d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots for 18/19th August Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 21:32:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, well Ali's (DF2BC) appearance certainly bucked up the activity a bit this weekend, though I suspect he suffers on receive from the problems of his nearness to Sylt. It is interesting to see him given a 559 by a Danish station with what purports to be a big aerial yet he was getting consistent 589/599 reports in the UK. Surprisingly Finbar didn't make it across and yet he is a steady signal around 569/579 here most days recently. I think Ali sent QRZ? to him. Finbar has completed his house move and finds his new location quieter than the old one, though he does have problems with TV SMPSUs. Other surprises were when Ali worked Petr OK1FIG, I could not detect a trace of Petr on the waterfall, and normally I hear Petr when he is on and can easily read his QRSS signal. Maybe Petr didn't go to the 'summer mansion retreat' this weekend.....Hi. Also SM6PXJ Christer was worked by Ali and was not heard at my location. Normally I would hear Christer on the speaker in daytime. I am wondering whether conditions were poor over the weekend. Although I had quite good strength on the overnight plot from SXV on Friday/Saturday, the Saturday/Sunday plot had much more depressed levels. (Plots available soon on Rik's site) www.qsl.net/on7yd There was a geomagnetic storm on Friday but it would usually take another 3 to 4 days for the injected ions to affect the D-layer at this latitude and bring on increased absorption. I am not really sure whether there would be an appreciable effect in daytime, but a big event might be expected to give enhanced daytime skywave. My list of stations heard in order..... Saturday G3KEV,DF2BC,G3AQC,G3KMP,G3BDQ, PA0SE,G6RO, MM0ALM,DF0WD (Not as strong as usually heard Wolf) GW4HXO,G3XTZ,F6BWO,G3OLB,DF6NM. Markus was only identifed by the fact that he was working G3KEV. His signal was clear on the waterfall as usual, but only about 229 audibly. Sunday DF2BC,GW4HXO,M0BMU,G3KEV,DJ9IE,G6RO,IK5ZPV (only identified as he was being called by G3KEV, but Mal didn't make the contact. The trace was clear on the waterfall but no audible copy here.) PA0BWL, PA0SE. I though I might have just heard the tail of a G6NB call, but it was raining and the TV QRM came up early right over the signal. Cluster spots follow...... note some new call-signs posting from OH and OK, maybe some more activity from those quarters soon?? 136.4 DF2BC 19-Aug-2001 0952Z 559 on beverage 136.4 G6RO 19-Aug-2001 0954Z cq 136.9 G3KEV 19-Aug-2001 0952Z cq 136.5 DJ9IE 19-Aug-2001 0914Z wkg DF2BC loud both! 136.7 HA6PC 19-Aug-2001 0913Z wkg Petr,229 weak>jn69 137.0 DF6NM 19-Aug-2001 0905Z with DJ2...569 >jn69vb 136.7 OK1FIG 19-Aug-2001 0850Z ...THIS CORRECT FRQ! 136.3 OK1FIG 19-Aug-2001 0835Z with OH1BS 136.5 G3YXM 19-Aug-2001 0838Z wking DF2BC (559 both) 136.7 OH1BS 19-Aug-2001 0834Z 449 > jn69vb wk OK1FIG 136.7 OK1FIG 19-Aug-2001 0832Z Petr clg cq... 136.5 DF6NM 19-Aug-2001 0829Z clg M0BMU 136.5 DF2BC 18-Aug-2001 2132Z CQ. too bad i have no TX ( 136.4 DF2BC 18-Aug-2001 2121Z 569 >jn69vb 136.5 DF6NM 18-Aug-2001 1102Z with DF2BC 136.1 EI0CF 18-Aug-2001 1017Z wkg gw4hxo 136.1 EI0CF 18-Aug-2001 0953Z wkg g3xtz 136.7 EI0CF 18-Aug-2001 0941Z clg df2bc 136.5 SM6PXJ 18-Aug-2001 0929Z Chris barely audible hr ( 137.5 DF6NM 18-Aug-2001 0926Z clg HB9DFQ in CW! 136.6 GW4HXO 18-Aug-2001 0923Z clg df3bc 136.5 G3XTZ 18-Aug-2001 0914Z hrd 549 in QSO DF2BC 136.5 DF2BC 18-Aug-2001 0906Z now 559 in JN88 136.5 DF2BC 18-Aug-2001 0903Z cq, also G3AQC,OK1FIG,PA0SE 137.1 GW4HXO 18-Aug-2001 0906Z 137.4 HA6PC 18-Aug-2001 0846Z CQ 136.9 G3KEV 18-Aug-2001 0848Z Mal back after long time ? 136.8 OK1FIG 18-Aug-2001 0841Z clg cq 55 in JO42, WD=YHF :- 136.2 MM0ALM 18-Aug-2001 0826Z 589 unbelievably strong agn 136.3 MM0ALM 18-Aug-2001 0829Z cq 136.3 OK1FIG 18-Aug-2001 0812Z 136.8 OK1FIG 18-Aug-2001 0815Z CQ 136.5 DF2BC 18-Aug-2001 0719Z Lighthouse expedition 136.5 DF2BC 18-Aug-2001 0721Z cq (589) 137.0 G3KEV 18-Aug-2001 0710Z cq 137.0 OK1FIG 18-Aug-2001 0700Z in QSO with me.... 136.9 G3KEV 17-Aug-2001 1815Z cq 136.5 GW4HXO 17-Aug-2001 1249Z (579) cq 137.0 OH1AH 17-Aug-2001 1120Z 18aug 09UTC->24h KO09QS Uto 136.5 EI0CF 13-Aug-2001 1209Z 579 here calling cq G3NYK de GB7MRS 19-Aug-2001 1935Z > Thanks for an interesting weekend fellas. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21975 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2001 22:52:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Aug 2001 22:52:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 15260 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2001 22:52:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Aug 2001 22:52:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15YbNJ-0008Us-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 23:48:57 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06lmsgate-3.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15YbNI-0008Uf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 23:48:56 +0100 Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by d06lmsgate-3.uk.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id XAA182042 for ; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 23:38:27 +0100 Received: from usa.net (ss5.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.70]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v4.97) with ESMTP id f7JMlfg28150 for ; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 23:47:42 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B804219.840AE64A@usa.net> Date: Mon, 20 Aug 2001 00:47:53 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Voyez le Brick (Off Topic) References: <4.1.20010819204821.00a14b90@pop.tiscalinet.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Marco Bruno wrote: > Well, there is also an Italian pangram: > > MAX HA VISTO FABRIZIO ACQUISTANDOGLI JUTA PER NEW YORK > Gosh ! should someone say that sentence to me, I doubt I will refrain from seriously considering he is in urgent need of a doctor.... 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12069 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2001 20:05:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Aug 2001 20:05:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 23947 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2001 20:05:18 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Aug 2001 20:05:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15YYba-0006tw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 20:51:30 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp1.libero.it ([193.70.192.51]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15YYbZ-0006tq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 20:51:29 +0100 Received: from ath650 (151.25.129.98) by smtp1.libero.it (5.5.034) id 3B71715E0013C635 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 21:50:14 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 21:50:14 +0200 (added by postmaster@iol.it) Message-ID: <4.1.20010819204821.00a14b90@pop.tiscalinet.it> X-Sender: IK1ODO@popmail.libero.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Versione 4.1 Data: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 20:50:11 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Marco Bruno" Subject: Re: LF: SV: Re: Voyez le Brick (Off Topic) In-reply-to: <008601c127ae$8bb0d820$0a5697d4@W98.swipnet.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Well, there is also an Italian pangram: MAX HA VISTO FABRIZIO ACQUISTANDOGLI JUTA PER NEW YORK But I never received it, HI. 73 - Marco IK1ODO Marco Bruno - IK1ODO spin.elec@tiscalinet.it SPIN Electronics - www.spin-it.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25967 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2001 15:14:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Aug 2001 15:14:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 9506 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2001 15:14:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Aug 2001 15:14:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15YUCV-0004KV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 16:09:19 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.91]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15YUCU-0004KQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 16:09:18 +0100 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15YUBn-000MNv-0X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 16:08:35 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B7FD7FB.E4F3F8D6@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 16:15:07 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: The ANC-4 Noise Canceller at 136 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, I have not been on 136 kHz a great deal this weekend because I've been busy testing a noise canceller for possible use by Bob G8RW. (NTL still refuses to investigate the SMPS noise believed to be coming from their cable TV set-top box installed in a house next door to Bob.) Last week, Bob sent me his commercially-built model 'ANC-4' noise canceller so that I could try modifying it for use on 136 kHz. (Bob had bought the unit many years ago for HF use.) As things turned out, I found that it appears to be capable of reasonable performance on 136 kHz without modification. So, now that we know that it has potential on LF, I will be returning the unit to Bob to see how he gets on with it at his QTH. Fingers crossed. Details of my experience with the ANC-4 can be found at: http://www.alg.demon.co.uk/radio/136/anc4test.htm BTW: I think that Ali did a great job of stimulating activity on 136 this past weekend. And the long duration between some QSOs did not discourage Ali putting out numerous CQ calls. I did not have much time to listen this weekend, but DF2BC always seemed to be there! Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20669 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2001 08:36:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Aug 2001 08:36:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 27528 invoked from network); 19 Aug 2001 08:36:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Aug 2001 08:36:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15YNuG-0000mH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 09:26:04 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15YNuF-0000mC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 09:26:03 +0100 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15YNtb-000AXU-0C for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 19 Aug 2001 08:25:23 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B7F676E.FB44A197@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 19 Aug 2001 08:14:54 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 136 References: <15Y9Nq-1E4luKC@fwd02.sul.t-online.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Regarding Ali DF2BC, Ha-Jo wrote on Saturday: > I have heard him well 569 in QTH JN68GN (eastern Bavaria) but could not raise > him with my 75 watts output, sri. QRN here has been very low this morning, > about S2 only. I'm sorry that you could not raise him, Ha-Jo. It was too windy to put up my balloon antenna, so I was only using my simple 12 m vertical (+ 400 W RF). But I worked Ali at 05:30 Saturday (579 sent, 339 received). The distance is 687 km. Ali's receiving system does appear to be working well - but eastern Bavaria is a long way from Campen! Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26396 invoked from network); 18 Aug 2001 17:11:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Aug 2001 17:11:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 23913 invoked from network); 18 Aug 2001 17:11:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 18 Aug 2001 17:11:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Y9Oe-0000me-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 17:56:28 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout06.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.19] helo=mailout06.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Y9Od-0000mZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 17:56:27 +0100 Received: from fwd02.sul.t-online.de by mailout06.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 15Y9Nz-0000ag-06; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 18:55:47 +0200 Received: from (087321565-0001@[217.2.65.101]) by fwd02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 15Y9Nq-1E4luKC; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 18:55:38 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Hans-Joachim" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: Re: LF: 136 X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 18:55:38 +0200 Message-ID: <15Y9Nq-1E4luKC@fwd02.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have heard him well 569 in QTH JN68GN (eastern Bavaria) but could not raise him with my 75 watts output, sri. QRN here has been very low this morning, about S2 only. I have understood that the antenna goes 75 meters up and again 75 meters down, fed on one end. 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB Tom Boucher schrieb: > Hey all you Quick Brown Foxes and Flying Snipes, DF2BC at Campen > Lighthouse is romping in on 136 here this morning. He says he is using a > 150m antenna with a 'dustbin loading coil'. > > 73, Tom G3OLB > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7706 invoked from network); 18 Aug 2001 09:38:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Aug 2001 09:38:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 25943 invoked from network); 18 Aug 2001 09:37:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 18 Aug 2001 09:37:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Y2U0-0005KQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 10:33:32 +0100 Received: from tvout.mail.uk.easynet.net ([194.6.96.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Y2Tz-0005KL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 10:33:31 +0100 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-3-4.easynet.co.uk [195.40.202.4]) by tvout.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id E4ADA62D53 for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 10:32:50 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <000801c127ca$053ac820$04ca28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <005501c125c6$89d255e0$a684fc3e@ian> Subject: LF: Re: CFA Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 10:40:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Ian Your e-mail regarding the CFA antenna got through the reflector OK. > Maybe a bit "old hat" - no pun intended - but I see GM3HAT has a bit on the > CFA in the July issue of RSARS mag, "Mercury".( Actually while I was > presidenting he sent me a copy of the paper presented at the IEE conference > in 1997. I can't follow either of them.) As regards the CFA papers I don't think you are intended to follow them.What we have with these papers is obfuscation rather than clarification and mathematics rather than simple testable models. Any antenna design, which invokes Maxwell's equations as support, without a considerable amount of comparative test measurements with known antennas, is suspect. While theoretical analysis is fine you must build and test the model - in other words experiment. Every CFA test that I have ever heard of has either been followed by silence or an unfavourable result. The only detailed test I have seen documented is described in 'CFA - RIP?', Electronics World + Wireless World, May 1993. (e-mail me for a copy if you want one). If anyone has other well documented comparative test results of the CFA I should be pleased to see them. Considering how long the CFA antenna has been around you would expect, considering the amateur radio need for compact antennas, that this antenna would be real success story. It has not. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10352 invoked from network); 18 Aug 2001 08:09:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Aug 2001 08:09:22 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 13256 invoked from network); 18 Aug 2001 08:09:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 18 Aug 2001 08:09:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Y15l-0004XU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 09:04:25 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.89]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Y15i-0004XP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 09:04:22 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15Y154-0006HF-0V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 09:03:43 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 09:02:45 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: LF: 136 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 3.05 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hey all you Quick Brown Foxes and Flying Snipes, DF2BC at Campen Lighthouse is romping in on 136 here this morning. He says he is using a 150m antenna with a 'dustbin loading coil'. 73, Tom G3OLB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14332 invoked from network); 18 Aug 2001 06:40:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Aug 2001 06:40:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 27948 invoked from network); 18 Aug 2001 06:40:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 18 Aug 2001 06:40:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15XzYV-0003jh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 07:25:59 +0100 Received: from fep02.swip.net ([130.244.199.130] helo=fep02-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15XzYU-0003jc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 07:25:58 +0100 Received: from W98 ([212.151.86.10]) by fep02-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20010818062516.CNPA22194.fep02-svc.swip.net@W98> for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 08:25:16 +0200 Message-ID: <008601c127ae$8bb0d820$0a5697d4@W98.swipnet.se> From: "C Andersson" To: "RSGB LF Group" Subject: LF: SV: Re: Voyez le Brick (Off Topic) Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 08:24:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In Swedish: "Flygande bäckasiner önska hvila på mjuka tufvor." Could be translated into something like: "Flying snipes want to rest on soft tufts." sm6pxj Christer >Andy, G4JNT wrote: >> >> I believe there is an equivalent phrase in French beginning "Voyez le >> brick....." Can anyone complete this please ? >> For that matter is there a German equivalent, and Spanish etc.. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10822 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2001 21:42:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Aug 2001 21:42:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 1481 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2001 21:41:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 17 Aug 2001 21:41:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15XrCr-0007Kp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 22:31:05 +0100 Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15XrCp-0007Kh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 22:31:04 +0100 Received: from rvernall ([202.27.178.140]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010817212943.WDYD2051913.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@rvernall> for ; Sat, 18 Aug 2001 09:29:43 +1200 Message-ID: <000601c12763$abca6c20$8cb21bca@rvernall> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001e01c12497$f6364d20$0d9c153e@w8k3f0> <15WfE5-0EO2eeC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> <000001c124f7$31973640$ce85153e@w8k3f0> <004c01c1250b$b81d9920$41b21bca@xtr743187> Subject: LF: 183 received again Date: Sat, 18 Aug 2001 09:27:53 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, I had another sample of 183 kHz reception, around ZL sunrise, and confirm the carrier gave a solid line on Argo (30 second dot setting) for much of the time over the peroid 1759Z to 1936Z. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2634 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2001 21:23:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Aug 2001 21:23:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 9063 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2001 21:23:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 17 Aug 2001 21:23:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15XquP-0007B7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 22:12:01 +0100 Received: from mta7-svc.virgin.net ([62.253.164.47]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15XquO-0007B2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 22:12:00 +0100 Received: from ian ([62.252.132.176]) by mta7-svc.virgin.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with SMTP id <20010817211120.BLDT28927.mta7-svc.virgin.net@ian> for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 22:11:20 +0100 Message-ID: <003a01c12758$ecec50c0$b084fc3e@ian> From: "Ian Kyle" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Test only Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 21:10:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: A couple of messages I posted recently dont seem to have got through. This is for test puposes only Ian MI0AYZ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12301 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2001 21:07:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Aug 2001 21:07:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 2706 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2001 21:07:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Aug 2001 21:07:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Xqb4-0006zH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 21:52:02 +0100 Received: from cmailenv3.svr.pol.co.uk ([213.218.77.55]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Xqb3-0006zB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 21:52:01 +0100 Received: from [62.21.163.161] (helo=w8k3f0) by cmailENV3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15XqaR-0004Lc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 20:51:24 +0000 Message-ID: <004601c1275f$7f6cd5e0$a1a3153e@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C59E@PDW-MAIL-R1> Subject: LF: Re: Voyez le Brick (Off Topic) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 22:58:34 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To All from PA0SE Andy, G4JNT wrote: > > I believe there is an equivalent phrase in French beginning "Voyez le > brick....." Can anyone complete this please ? > For that matter is there a German equivalent, and Spanish etc.. I seem to remember that a German equivalent is: KAUFEN SIE JEDE WOCHE VIER GUTE BEQUEME PELZE XY Perhaps a German subscriber to the Reflector can confirm or correct this. 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12207 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2001 21:07:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Aug 2001 21:07:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 2660 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2001 21:07:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Aug 2001 21:07:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15XqaW-0006z5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 21:51:28 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout01.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.80] helo=mailout01.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15XqaV-0006z0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 21:51:28 +0100 Received: from fwd00.sul.t-online.de by mailout01.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 15XqZo-0001e4-05; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 22:50:44 +0200 Received: from (087321565-0001@[217.2.66.19]) by fwd00.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 15XqZm-0ekoPUC; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 22:50:42 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Hans-Joachim" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010817180600.00aba580@aurora.eexi.gr> <3B7D3E68.74230542@usa.net> Subject: Re: LF: Voyez le Brick X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.33 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 22:50:42 +0200 Message-ID: <15XqZm-0ekoPUC@fwd00.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all, concerning the german contribution of Alberto I must confess that I have never heard it before (in spite of regarding it quite amusing). I can only remember the german phrase: Kaufen Sie jede Woche vier gute und bequeme Pelze xy. (buy every week four good and comfortable furs) X and Y had to be added separately because these letters are not typical for german words (and may have been the reason to create the phrase Alberto had contributed, employing Xylophone for using X and Y). 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB Alberto di Bene schrieb: > Costas Krallis SV1XV wrote: > > > [...] > > I think it goes like: > > > > "VOYEZ LE BRICK JEUNE QUE J'EXAMINE PRES DU LONG WARF" > > > > That sentence is missing the letters 'T' and 'H' .... > I think that the correct one is : > > "Voyez le brick geant que j'examine pres du wharf." > > In German it should be : > > Falsches Ueben von Xylophonmusik quaelt jeden groesseren Zwerg. > > 73 Alberto I2PHD > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2075 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2001 16:36:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Aug 2001 16:36:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 5707 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2001 16:35:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Aug 2001 16:35:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15XmXO-0004VW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:31:58 +0100 Received: from asterix.tee.gr ([212.70.193.140]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15XmXM-0004VR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:31:57 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from teeserver.tee.gr (teeserver.tee.gr [212.70.193.130]) by asterix.tee.gr (8.11.5/8.11.5) with ESMTP id f7HGUu107149 for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 19:30:56 +0300 Received: from s9o9f0.eexi.gr ([212.70.201.186]) by teeserver.tee.gr (Netscape Messaging Server 4.1) with ESMTP id GI80LR00.44A for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 19:32:15 +0300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010817192930.00a9f1f0@aurora.eexi.gr> X-Sender: sv1xv@aurora.eexi.gr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 19:31:11 +0300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Costas Krallis SV1XV" Subject: Re: LF: Voyez le Brick In-reply-to: <3B7D3E68.74230542@usa.net> References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010817180600.00aba580@aurora.eexi.gr> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 17:55 17/8/2001 +0200, you wrote: >> "VOYEZ LE BRICK JEUNE QUE J'EXAMINE PRES DU LONG WARF" > > >That sentence is missing the letters 'T' and 'H' .... >I think that the correct one is : > > "Voyez le brick géant que j'examine près du wharf." I'm afraid Alberto's version is the correct one! Costas +------------------------------------------------------------+ | Costas Krallis SV1XV * LOC KM18UA | | P.O.Box 3066 * E-Mail: sv1xv@eexi.gr | | GR-10210 Athens * PGP key: 0x3BDBBC34 | | GREECE * http://www.qsl.net/sv1xv/ | | * http://w4u.eexi.gr/~sv1xv/ | +------------------------------------------------------------+ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16817 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2001 16:25:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Aug 2001 16:25:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 18830 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2001 16:25:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 17 Aug 2001 16:25:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15XmMd-0004N5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:20:51 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mta01.btfusion.com ([62.172.195.11] helo=btclick.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15XmMc-0004Mt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:20:50 +0100 Received: from virgin.net ([213.121.108.191]) by btclick.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.05) with ESMTP id GI800103.4DJ for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:19:13 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B7D43FC.74ED86C2@virgin.net> Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:19:08 +0100 From: "Stewart Bryant" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Voyez le Brick References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010817180600.00aba580@aurora.eexi.gr> <3B7D3E68.74230542@usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > So wondering what they meant I asked the babelfish: > > Stewart G3YSX > > "Voyez le brick géant que j'examine près du wharf." > See the giant brig which I examine close to the wharf > > Falsches Üben von Xylophonmusik quält jeden größeren Zwerg. > > False practicing of Xylophon musik torments each larger dwarf. > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10729 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2001 16:08:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Aug 2001 16:08:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 3810 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2001 16:08:15 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Aug 2001 16:08:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Xm3k-0004DW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:01:20 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from galahad.joust.net ([63.108.136.2] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Xm3j-0004DP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:01:19 +0100 Received: from benny-hill (m7-137-134.joust.net [63.108.137.134]) by galahad.joust.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f7HG0Wf00116 for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:00:32 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <200108171600.f7HG0Wf00116@galahad.joust.net> Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:00:33 -0400 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Steve Dove" Subject: LF: Odd Doings on Longwave X-Mailer: Opera 5.02 build 856a X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings, This plays into the relevance of LF broadcast antenna directionality, a la Saarlouis-to-ZL, long-or-short path. Playing with a new untuned loop (late) last night it was quite a 'good' night, in that Allouis (162) was louder than normal, the audio being 'armchair' in normal AM bandwidth. True with Junglinster (234) too; quite noticable QSB on both, though. The other usual suspect, Saarlouis (183) was notable by it's weakness. Now, this was odd in and of itself; they're usually all there. Droitwich (198) wafted up and down but never amounted to much (on a really, really good night it's like being at home in Henley again). The big surprises though were Atlantic 252, normally only barely detectable, fading up a few times for short durations to perfectly audible in the same league as Allouis, some 10- 15 min. at a time. This station is beamed east-ish to England, away from here, so the ERP this way is much less than the nominal 500kW. On a second receiver, at the same time as one of these lifts, Droitwich was still a mere mumble. Go figure. In lifts definitely not correlated with those for 252, a borderline audible station (like 198) on 171kHz came up and down; now this is a first here - presumably Nador, Morocco. The rapidity, selectiveness and extremes of the QSB were the most dramatic ever noted; 252 was a stunner. (Shame about the programming, though it was 5am there. . .) Cheers, Steve W3EEE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10665 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2001 16:03:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Aug 2001 16:03:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 28199 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2001 16:03:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Aug 2001 16:03:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Xlz0-0004Be-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:56:26 +0100 Received: from d06lmsgate-2.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Xlyx-0004BZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:56:23 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by d06lmsgate-2.uk.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id QAA137764 for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:38:18 +0100 Received: from usa.net (ss5.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.70]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v4.97) with ESMTP id f7HFt6N58236 for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:55:07 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B7D3E68.74230542@usa.net> Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:55:20 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Voyez le Brick References: <5.0.2.1.0.20010817180600.00aba580@aurora.eexi.gr> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by d06lmsgate-2.uk.ibm.com id QAA137764 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Costas Krallis SV1XV wrote: > [...] > I think it goes like: > > "VOYEZ LE BRICK JEUNE QUE J'EXAMINE PRES DU LONG WARF" > That sentence is missing the letters 'T' and 'H' .... I think that the correct one is : "Voyez le brick géant que j'examine près du wharf." In German it should be : Falsches Üben von Xylophonmusik quält jeden größeren Zwerg. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21204 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2001 15:26:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Aug 2001 15:26:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 14747 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2001 15:26:48 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Aug 2001 15:26:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15XlSS-0003mW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:22:48 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15XlSO-0003mR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:22:45 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA940170 for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:22:04 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010817162115.31afb01a@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:21:15 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Voyez le Brick (Off Topic) In-reply-to: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C59E@PDW-MAIL-R1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andy, have a look here : http://www.navvy.com/pdds/pangram.html http://www.dcs.ed.ac.uk/home/ajcd/type/pangram.html http://www.mistral.co.uk/pipes/pangram.html 73, Rik ON7YD At 15:46 17/08/01 +0100, you wrote: >A query resulting from a typical Friday afternoon conversation... In the >English language there is a phrase useful for testing things such as >typewriters, that includes every letter of the alphabet at least once. >"The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog" > >I believe there is an equivalent phrase in French beginning "Voyez le >brick....." Can anyone complete this please ? >For that matter is there a German equivalent, and Spanish etc.. > >Certain coastal / marine radio stations are known to transmit this sentence >continuously just to keep their channels open. > >Andy G4JNT > > > >-- >The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence >is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). >For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, >or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is >prohibited and may be unlawful. > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29480 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2001 15:16:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Aug 2001 15:16:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 1682 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2001 15:16:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Aug 2001 15:16:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15XlIA-0003kM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:12:10 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15XlI9-0003kH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:12:09 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA307690 for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 17:11:23 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010817161034.310754aa@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:10:34 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Voyez le Brick (Off Topic) In-reply-to: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C59E@PDW-MAIL-R1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Andy, I thought that it was : "the quick brown fox jumps over the lazy dog" (otherwise you miss the 's') ? btw. I would also like to see the French sentence, especially if it also includes the é - è - à - á - î - ç etc... 73, Rik >A query resulting from a typical Friday afternoon conversation... In the >English language there is a phrase useful for testing things such as >typewriters, that includes every letter of the alphabet at least once. >"The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog" From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29170 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2001 15:16:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Aug 2001 15:16:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 1449 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2001 15:16:32 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Aug 2001 15:16:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15XlHz-0003kF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:11:59 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from asterix.tee.gr ([212.70.193.140]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15XlHy-0003k9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 16:11:58 +0100 Received: from teeserver.tee.gr (teeserver.tee.gr [212.70.193.130]) by asterix.tee.gr (8.11.5/8.11.5) with ESMTP id f7HFAs104880 for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 18:10:54 +0300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from s9o9f0.eexi.gr ([212.70.201.98]) by teeserver.tee.gr (Netscape Messaging Server 4.1) with ESMTP id GI7WWD00.84H for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 18:12:13 +0300 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010817180600.00aba580@aurora.eexi.gr> X-Sender: sv1xv@aurora.eexi.gr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 18:10:24 +0300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Costas Krallis SV1XV" Subject: Re: LF: Voyez le Brick In-reply-to: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C59E@PDW-MAIL-R1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 15:46 17/8/2001 +0100, you wrote: Hi Andy >I believe there is an equivalent phrase in French beginning "Voyez le >brick....." Can anyone complete this please ? I think it goes like: "VOYEZ LE BRICK JEUNE QUE J'EXAMINE PRES DU LONG WARF" There are not many french words with a "W"!! 73 Costas SV1XV (ex G7AHN) +------------------------------------------------------------+ | Costas Krallis SV1XV * LOC KM18UA | | P.O.Box 3066 * E-Mail: sv1xv@eexi.gr | | GR-10210 Athens * PGP key: 0x3BDBBC34 | | GREECE * http://www.qsl.net/sv1xv/ | | * http://w4u.eexi.gr/~sv1xv/ | +------------------------------------------------------------+ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8324 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2001 14:54:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Aug 2001 14:54:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 1524 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2001 14:54:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Aug 2001 14:54:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15XkwU-0003S5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:49:46 +0100 Received: from relay.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.49]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15XkwT-0003S0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:49:45 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 25184 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2001 15:49:03 +0100 Received: from trtnmail.dera.gov.uk (146.80.9.56) by relay.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 17 Aug 2001 15:49:03 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6871 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2001 15:51:16 +0100 Received: (ofmipd 192.5.29.90); 17 Aug 2001 14:50:54 -0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id PAA31941; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:55:20 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 21321 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2001 15:39:45 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 17 Aug 2001 15:39:45 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id PAA21315; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:26:00 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma021293; Fri, 17 Aug 01 15:25:33 GMT Received: from mailex.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:49:09 +0100 Received: (qmail 10542 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2001 14:36:21 +0100 Date: 17 Aug 2001 15:46:41 +0100 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C59E@PDW-MAIL-R1> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: "LF Group \(E-mail\)" X-5Received: from softdnserror (HELO cchecker.dstl.gov.uk) (192.168.248.52) by mailex.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 17 Aug 2001 13:36:21 -0000 X-4Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by cchecker.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.2) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 14:36:00 +0100 X-3Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)id ; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 15:46:43 +0100 Subject: LF: Voyez le Brick (Off Topic) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: A query resulting from a typical Friday afternoon conversation... In the English language there is a phrase useful for testing things such as typewriters, that includes every letter of the alphabet at least once. "The quick brown fox jumped over the lazy dog" I believe there is an equivalent phrase in French beginning "Voyez le brick....." Can anyone complete this please ? For that matter is there a German equivalent, and Spanish etc.. Certain coastal / marine radio stations are known to transmit this sentence continuously just to keep their channels open. Andy G4JNT -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11180 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2001 13:50:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Aug 2001 13:50:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 8937 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2001 13:49:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Aug 2001 13:49:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Xjts-0002sb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 14:43:00 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from out2.prserv.net ([32.97.166.32] helo=prserv.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Xjtn-0002sW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 14:42:55 +0100 Received: from ieee.org (slip-32-103-10-134.md.us.prserv.net[32.103.10.134]) by prserv.net (out2) with SMTP id <2001081713420520200fkeg9e>; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 13:42:06 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B7D1FE7.3BF1CC1A@ieee.org> Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 09:45:12 -0400 From: "Andre Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Europe 1 antennas References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz wrote: > If I understand it correctly, the french text of the Europe 1 web > pages (http://home.worldnet.fr/~tvignaud/am/e1/fr-e1.htm) says the > forward gain of the antenna is 3, and signals off the back of the > antenna are attenuated by "1/1000", presumably a forward gain of > about 5dB, and -30dB front to back ratio. The text reads: Les antennes sont constituées de 4 pylônes métalliques. L'entre-axes est de 350 m. Les hauteurs : 270, 276, 280 et 282 m. Les pylônes sont de section triangulaire de 3 m de côté. La distribution des puissances sont 2 %, 56 %, 41 %, 1 % pour un diagramme de rayonnement de 220° (sud-ouest) avec un gain de 3 et un affaiblissement des minimums arrières supérieur à 1/1000. La prise de terre est constituée d'un câble de cuivre de 3 mm de diamètre enfoui à 30 cm et d'une longueur de 195 km. Four metal towers constitute the antenna.. The distance between those towers is 350 meters. Respective heights: 270, 276, 280 and 283 meters. The towers have a triangular section, 3 meter on the side. Power distribution [to each tower] is 2%. 56%, 41% 1% for a radiation pattern of 220 degrees (south west) with a gain of 3, and an attenuation of the rear lobes better than 1/1000. The ground connection is made of a 3 millimeter diameter copper cable, buried 30 cm under the ground, and 195 kilometer long. 73 André N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22605 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2001 11:32:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Aug 2001 11:32:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 10503 invoked from network); 17 Aug 2001 11:32:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Aug 2001 11:32:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15XhbZ-0001UQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:15:57 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15XhbY-0001UL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:15:56 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15Xhar-0006xk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:15:13 +0100 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15Xhaq-00026e-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:15:12 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 12:17:23 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: 183 carrier received in ZL In-reply-to: <002701c12691$1b9445e0$70b51bca@xtr743187> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF group, ZL2CA wrote: > > As half the circumference of the globe is nominally 20000 km, then > propagation between ZL and EU does not have a lot of difference between > long and short paths. The antipodean positions are ZL and Portugal. Any > minor tilt or disturbances in an "ionospheric shell" can influence the > angle of arrival for DX between EU and ZL. For amateur LF testing, > antennas are nominally omnidirectional, so if there does turn out to be > confirmed reception, the path will have worked itself out! > But the point is, since Europe 1 has a highly directional antenna beaming in the long path direction, there is a large difference in the ERP of the signal depending on whether it arrives by long path or short path. If I understand it correctly, the french text of the Europe 1 web pages (http://home.worldnet.fr/~tvignaud/am/e1/fr-e1.htm) says the forward gain of the antenna is 3, and signals off the back of the antenna are attenuated by "1/1000", presumably a forward gain of about 5dB, and -30dB front to back ratio. Taken literally, this would mean a long-path signal of a few megawatts ERP, and a short path signal of only a few kW ERP. If an amateur signal of 1W ERP is generated with an omnidirectional pattern, it would be 60-70dB down on the Europe 1 long path signal, but "only" 30-40dB down on the short path signal. So if the signals seen by ZL2CA are arriving by a short path, the chances of amateur signals being detectable are much greater than if they are arriving by the long path. If the signals are going via a short path, other european broadcasters with omnidirectional antennas should be considerably stronger than Europe 1. Conversely, if the signal arrives by the long path, Europe 1 should be somewhat stronger than the rest. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20539 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2001 20:35:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Aug 2001 20:35:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 1472 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2001 20:35:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Aug 2001 20:35:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15XTfr-00029f-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 21:23:27 +0100 Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15XTfn-00029a-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 21:23:24 +0100 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.181.112]) by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010816202210.JMJG1551126.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Fri, 17 Aug 2001 08:22:10 +1200 Message-ID: <002701c12691$1b9445e0$70b51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20010816085833.2dcf9ee4@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: Re: LF: 183 carrier received in ZL Date: Fri, 17 Aug 2001 08:21:01 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik and others, Thanks for various comments. Regarding path estimates: > Based on the coordinates the Saarlouis TX should be in JN39IG and according > to the Buckmaster callbook ZL2CA is in RE78JQ. I am actually located in RE78IR. I do not know how Buckmaster obtains their data, however the practical impact is minor for DX situations.. > That makes the distance 18630km and direction 51 degrees for the short path > and 21370km / 231 degrees for the long path (directions seen from Europe). > Assuming the better propagation over the night side of the earth shortpath > should occur in the EU evening (= ZL morning) and longpath in EU morning (= > ZL evening). > > The Europe 1 antennas should favour longpath, but Bob's copy (at ZL > sunrise) would be shortpath ? > > 73, Rik ON7YD As half the circumference of the globe is nominally 20000 km, then propagation between ZL and EU does not have a lot of difference between long and short paths. The antipodean positions are ZL and Portugal. Any minor tilt or disturbances in an "ionospheric shell" can influence the angle of arrival for DX between EU and ZL. For amateur LF testing, antennas are nominally omnidirectional, so if there does turn out to be confirmed reception, the path will have worked itself out! 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3680 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2001 09:03:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Aug 2001 09:03:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 13666 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2001 09:02:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 16 Aug 2001 09:02:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15XIxz-0004OT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:57:27 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [204.202.140.198] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15XIxv-0004OO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:57:23 +0100 Received: from gomailjtp01 ([10.212.0.161]) by mta06.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GI500M1PKTRIS@mta06.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 01:56:16 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 01:56:17 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Sexton" Subject: Re: LF: French Long-wave broadcasting stations To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <2524134.997952177438.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Many thanks to Daniel for such an interesting explanation and to Andre for the translation. Judging from the other contributions, it looks as though the thinking has started in earnest for the first amateur LF QSO between EU and ZL. Great! 73 John, G4CNN -----Original Message----- From: "Andre Kesteloot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed Aug 15 14:33:14 PDT 2001 Subject: LF: French Long-wave broadcasting stations >f1tay wrote:> >> Je m'excuse de répondre en français mais mon anglais est très mauvais. >> L'émetteur ondes longues d'Europe 1 est situé en Allemagne car de 1944 à >> 1981 les stations commerciales étaient interdite en France. > >The Europe 1 long-wave transmitter is located in Germany because, from 1944 >until 1981, commercial stations were forbidden in France. > >> Toutes les stations commerciales françaises entre 1944 et 1981 émettaient >> depuis les pays frontaliers (on les appelaient stations périphériques) : > >All French commercial stations, between 1944 and 1981, transmitted from >countries adjacent to France, (they were called peripheral stations) > >> Radio Andorre et Sud-Radio en ondes moyennes depuis la Principauté >> d'Andorre. > >Radio Andorra and Sud Radio on medium wave from Andorra > >> Radio Luxembourg en ondes longues depuis le Luxembourg. > >Radio Luxembourg on long waves from Luxembourg > >> Europe 1 en ondes longues depuis l'Allemagne. > >Europe 1 on long waves from Germany > >> Seul Radio Monté-Carlo (station commerciale mais contrôlée à 100/100 par >> l'état français) émettait en ondes courtes, moyennes et longues depuis la >> France. Mais ceci était en théorie illégales. > >Only Radio Monte Carlo (a commercial station, but controlled 100% by the French >Government) transmitted on short, medium and long waves from France. But in >theory that was illegal. > >> Après 1981 et la réautorisation des stations privées en France Europe 1, >> Sud-Radio, RMC et RTL possèdent des émetteurs FM en France. > >After 1981, and private stations were again authorized in France, only Europe 1, >Sud-Radio, Radio Monte Carlo and Radio Luxembourg have FM stations located in >France. > >> Actuellement il y a 4 stations francophones en ondes longues en Europe: >> France-Inter à Allouis (France) >> Radio Monté-Carlo (RMC) à Roumoules (France) >> Europe 1 en Allemagne >> Radio Luxembourg (RTL) au Luxembourg. >> Ces 4 stations ont des studios à Paris > >At the present time, there are 4 French-speaking radio stations on long waves in >France, >France Inter at Allouis (France) >Radio Monte Carlo at Roumoules (France, >Europe 1 in germany >Radio Luxembourg in Luxembourg. >These 4 stations have studios in Paris > >> En Afrique il existe deux stations francophones (également en arabe) en >> ondes longues: >> Radio Alger en Algérie >> Médi 1 au Maroc > >In Africa, there are 2 French-speaking stations (also in Arabic) on long-waves: >Radio Alger in Algeria >Medi1 in Morocco > >> 162 kHz 2000 kW France-Inter Allouis (France) >> 171 kHz 2000 kW Médi 1 Nador (Maroc) >> 183 kHz 2000 kW Europe1 Saarlouis (Allemagne) >> 218 kHz 1400 kW R.M.C. Roumoules (France) >> 234 kHz 2000 kW R.T.L. Junglinster >> 252 kHz 1500 kW Alger chaîne 4 Tipaza (Algérie) >> >> 73 de Daniel > >73 >André N4ICK > > ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25079 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2001 08:12:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Aug 2001 08:12:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 11608 invoked from network); 16 Aug 2001 08:12:15 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 16 Aug 2001 08:12:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15XI4R-0003qR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:00:03 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15XI4M-0003qK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 08:59:58 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA498884 for ; Thu, 16 Aug 2001 09:59:18 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010816085833.2dcf9ee4@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 16 Aug 2001 08:58:33 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: 183 carrier received in ZL In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Jim, Based on the coordinates the Saarlouis TX should be in JN39IG and according to the Buckmaster callbook ZL2CA is in RE78JQ. That makes the distance 18630km and direction 51 degrees for the short path and 21370km / 231 degrees for the long path (directions seen from Europe). Assuming the better propagation over the night side of the earth shortpath should occur in the EU evening (= ZL morning) and longpath in EU morning (= ZL evening). The Europe 1 antennas should favour longpath, but Bob's copy (at ZL sunrise) would be shortpath ? 73, Rik ON7YD At 17:36 15/08/01 +0000, you wrote: >Dear LF Group, > >Looking at the Europe 1 web pages suggested by F1TAY, and if >my understanding of the french is correct, the 183kHz signal is >transmitted using a 4 element array beaming south west on a >bearing of 220degrees. This would seem to favour propagation via >a long path to ZL - is this consistent with ZL2CA's reception in the >morning? The ERP of the signal going the other way over the north >pole must be much lower. > >Cheers, Jim Moritz >73 de M0BMU > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17684 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2001 21:36:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Aug 2001 21:36:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 4866 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2001 21:36:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Aug 2001 21:36:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15X8Fr-0006k1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 22:31:11 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from out2.prserv.net ([32.97.166.32] helo=prserv.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15X8Fq-0006jw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 22:31:10 +0100 Received: from ieee.org (slip-32-102-157-253.md.us.prserv.net[32.102.157.253]) by prserv.net (out2) with SMTP id <2001081521302120200om677e>; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 21:30:23 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B7AEA9A.4F5D9A69@ieee.org> Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:33:14 -0400 From: "Andre Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: French Long-wave broadcasting stations References: <2886240.997900239608.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp01> <002701c125c5$532e1ac0$615ef9c1@v1j7v5> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: f1tay wrote: > Je m'excuse de répondre en français mais mon anglais est très mauvais. > L'émetteur ondes longues d'Europe 1 est situé en Allemagne car de 1944 à > 1981 les stations commerciales étaient interdite en France. The Europe 1 long-wave transmitter is located in Germany because, from 1944 until 1981, commercial stations were forbidden in France. > Toutes les stations commerciales françaises entre 1944 et 1981 émettaient > depuis les pays frontaliers (on les appelaient stations périphériques) : All French commercial stations, between 1944 and 1981, transmitted from countries adjacent to France, (they were called peripheral stations) > Radio Andorre et Sud-Radio en ondes moyennes depuis la Principauté > d'Andorre. Radio Andorra and Sud Radio on medium wave from Andorra > Radio Luxembourg en ondes longues depuis le Luxembourg. Radio Luxembourg on long waves from Luxembourg > Europe 1 en ondes longues depuis l'Allemagne. Europe 1 on long waves from Germany > Seul Radio Monté-Carlo (station commerciale mais contrôlée à 100/100 par > l'état français) émettait en ondes courtes, moyennes et longues depuis la > France. Mais ceci était en théorie illégales. Only Radio Monte Carlo (a commercial station, but controlled 100% by the French Government) transmitted on short, medium and long waves from France. But in theory that was illegal. > Après 1981 et la réautorisation des stations privées en France Europe 1, > Sud-Radio, RMC et RTL possèdent des émetteurs FM en France. After 1981, and private stations were again authorized in France, only Europe 1, Sud-Radio, Radio Monte Carlo and Radio Luxembourg have FM stations located in France. > Actuellement il y a 4 stations francophones en ondes longues en Europe: > France-Inter à Allouis (France) > Radio Monté-Carlo (RMC) à Roumoules (France) > Europe 1 en Allemagne > Radio Luxembourg (RTL) au Luxembourg. > Ces 4 stations ont des studios à Paris At the present time, there are 4 French-speaking radio stations on long waves in France, France Inter at Allouis (France) Radio Monte Carlo at Roumoules (France, Europe 1 in germany Radio Luxembourg in Luxembourg. These 4 stations have studios in Paris > En Afrique il existe deux stations francophones (également en arabe) en > ondes longues: > Radio Alger en Algérie > Médi 1 au Maroc In Africa, there are 2 French-speaking stations (also in Arabic) on long-waves: Radio Alger in Algeria Medi1 in Morocco > 162 kHz 2000 kW France-Inter Allouis (France) > 171 kHz 2000 kW Médi 1 Nador (Maroc) > 183 kHz 2000 kW Europe1 Saarlouis (Allemagne) > 218 kHz 1400 kW R.M.C. Roumoules (France) > 234 kHz 2000 kW R.T.L. Junglinster > 252 kHz 1500 kW Alger chaîne 4 Tipaza (Algérie) > > 73 de Daniel 73 André N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3614 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2001 21:17:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Aug 2001 21:17:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 26468 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2001 21:17:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Aug 2001 21:17:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15X7x1-0006ZY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 22:11:43 +0100 Received: from mta8-svc.virgin.net ([62.253.164.48]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15X7x0-0006ZT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 22:11:42 +0100 Received: from ian ([62.252.132.166]) by mta8-svc.virgin.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010815211101.SWUW13194.mta8-svc.virgin.net@ian> for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 22:11:01 +0100 Message-ID: <005501c125c6$89d255e0$a684fc3e@ian> From: "Ian Kyle" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: CFA Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 20:26:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Maybe a bit "old hat" - no pun intended - but I see GM3HAT has a bit on the CFA in the July issue of RSARS mag, "Mercury".( Actually while I was presidenting he sent me a copy of the paper presented at the IEE conference in 1997. I can't follow either of them.) Ian MI0AYZ. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5247 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2001 20:09:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Aug 2001 20:09:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 6246 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2001 20:09:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Aug 2001 20:09:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15X6uI-0005sh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 21:04:50 +0100 Received: from smtp-rt-7.wanadoo.fr ([193.252.19.161] helo=embelia.wanadoo.fr) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15X6uG-0005sZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 21:04:48 +0100 Received: from andira.wanadoo.fr (193.252.19.152) by embelia.wanadoo.fr; 15 Aug 2001 22:03:38 +0200 Received: from v1j7v5 (193.249.94.97) by andira.wanadoo.fr; 15 Aug 2001 22:03:17 +0200 Message-ID: <002701c125c5$532e1ac0$615ef9c1@v1j7v5> From: "f1tay" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <2886240.997900239608.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp01> Subject: Re: Re: LF: 183 carrier received in ZL Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:33:11 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Je m'excuse de répondre en français mais mon anglais est très mauvais. L'émetteur ondes longues d'Europe 1 est situé en Allemagne car de 1944 à 1981 les stations commerciales étaient interdite en France. Toutes les stations commerciales françaises entre 1944 et 1981 émettaient depuis les pays frontaliers (on les appelaient stations périphériques) : Radio Andorre et Sud-Radio en ondes moyennes depuis la Principauté d'Andorre. Radio Luxembourg en ondes longues depuis le Luxembourg. Europe 1 en ondes longues depuis l'Allemagne. Seul Radio Monté-Carlo (station commerciale mais contrôlée à 100/100 par l'état français) émettait en ondes courtes, moyennes et longues depuis la France. Mais ceci était en théorie illégales. Après 1981 et la réautorisation des stations privées en France Europe 1, Sud-Radio, RMC et RTL possèdent des émetteurs FM en France. Actuellement il y a 4 stations francophones en ondes longues en Europe: France-Inter à Allouis (France) Radio Monté-Carlo (RMC) à Roumoules (France) Europe 1 en Allemagne Radio Luxembourg (RTL) au Luxembourg. Ces 4 stations ont des studios à Paris En Afrique il existe deux stations francophones (également en arabe) en ondes longues: Radio Alger en Algérie Médi 1 au Maroc 162 kHz 2000 kW France-Inter Allouis (France) 171 kHz 2000 kW Médi 1 Nador (Maroc) 183 kHz 2000 kW Europe1 Saarlouis (Allemagne) 218 kHz 1400 kW R.M.C. Roumoules (France) 234 kHz 2000 kW R.T.L. Junglinster 252 kHz 1500 kW Alger chaîne 4 Tipaza (Algérie) 73 de Daniel ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Sexton" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 6:30 PM Subject: Re: Re: LF: 183 carrier received in ZL > Hi Daniel, > Thanks for the correction. > You live and learn as they say! > The Lat and Long I gave are correct, but it is just across the border in Germany, not France. Seems a rather curious arrangement? > 73, John, G4CNN > > -----Original Message----- > From: "f1tay" > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Wed Aug 15 07:26:12 PDT 2001 > Subject: Re: LF: 183 carrier received in ZL > > >The TX LW of Europe 1 is in Germany not in France.>The studio is at Paris (France). Europe 1 is a french langage commerciale > >station created in 1955. > > > >Internet site on Europe 1 and France-Inter LW TX : > >http://home.worldnet.fr/~tvignaud/ > > > >73 de Daniel > > > >----- Original Message ----- > >From: "John Sexton" > >To: > >Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 10:09 AM > >Subject: Re: LF: 183 carrier received in ZL > > > > > >> Hi Bob, > >> It sounds as though you have found it. When this station is not visible, > >there is no chance of receiving amateur transmissions from Europe. > >> Europe 1 is situated at Saarlouis, France 06E41/49N17. > >> This is a 2MW station and as you say does not conform to the 9 kHz raster > >for ITU 1. To achieve very high modulation depth, they compress the normal > >dynamic range of speech so that the sidebands are rather dense, but this may > >not be observable. > >> There is an image of the modulation on my web site at: > >http://www.g4cnn.f2s.com > >> > >> 73, John, G4CNN > >> > >> > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: "Vernall" > >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > >> Date: Tue Aug 14 14:53:56 PDT 2001 > >> Subject: LF: 183 carrier received in ZL > >> > >> >Hi all,> > >> >I report quite good reception of a 183 kHz carrier around ZL sunrise this > >> >morning. I presume it is the German broadcast station, as the frequency > >is > >> >relatively unique, not being on the 9 kHz raster of carrier frequencies > >for > >> >LF AM broadcasting in ITU Region 1 (the standard frequencies are 181 and > >190 > >> >kHz for that part of the band). > >> > > >> >I have a series of 3 Argo captures, which show some deep fades, but at > >best > >> >it is a very good "solid line" on Argo (30 second dot setting). > >> > > >> >I found the carrier frequency to be within 0.1 Hz of 183 kHz. It would > >be > >> >good if a local amateur could confirm that the 183 carrier is very close > >to > >> >declared frequency. > >> > > >> >I was advised by Mike ZL4OL that sunrise/sunset times for mid August mean > >> >that the only dark path times for Germany to New Zealand are around ZL > >> >sunrise, and then for only tens of minutes. 183 carrier was received for > >> >much longer than that, but did build up and then drop out either side of > >the > >> >time for a dark path. Reception of 183 around ZL sunset has been nil, > >but > >> >that is not surprising for current sunrise in Germany. > >> > > >> >There is perhaps a glimmer of hope for amateur QRP signals to make it > >> >between EU and ZL ???? > >> > > >> >The ZL6QH trustee has made a request to the New Zealand licensing > >authority > >> >for the European 136 kHz band to be added to the existing low frequency > >> >permit. > >> > > >> >73, Bob ZL2CA > >> > > >> > > >> > >> > >> ___________________________________________________ > >> GO.com Mail > >> Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com > >> > >> > >> > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________ > GO.com Mail > Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22144 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2001 18:37:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Aug 2001 18:37:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 3364 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2001 18:37:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Aug 2001 18:37:14 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15X5TN-000533-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:32:57 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [204.202.140.199] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15X5TJ-00052y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 19:32:53 +0100 Received: from gomailjtp01 ([10.212.0.161]) by mta07.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GI40059IGR1W0@mta07.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:30:37 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:30:39 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Sexton" Subject: Re: Re: LF: 183 carrier received in ZL To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <2886240.997900239608.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Daniel, Thanks for the correction. You live and learn as they say! The Lat and Long I gave are correct, but it is just across the border in Germany, not France. Seems a rather curious arrangement? 73, John, G4CNN -----Original Message----- From: "f1tay" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed Aug 15 07:26:12 PDT 2001 Subject: Re: LF: 183 carrier received in ZL >The TX LW of Europe 1 is in Germany not in France.>The studio is at Paris (France). Europe 1 is a french langage commerciale >station created in 1955. > >Internet site on Europe 1 and France-Inter LW TX : >http://home.worldnet.fr/~tvignaud/ > >73 de Daniel > >----- Original Message ----- >From: "John Sexton" >To: >Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 10:09 AM >Subject: Re: LF: 183 carrier received in ZL > > >> Hi Bob, >> It sounds as though you have found it. When this station is not visible, >there is no chance of receiving amateur transmissions from Europe. >> Europe 1 is situated at Saarlouis, France 06E41/49N17. >> This is a 2MW station and as you say does not conform to the 9 kHz raster >for ITU 1. To achieve very high modulation depth, they compress the normal >dynamic range of speech so that the sidebands are rather dense, but this may >not be observable. >> There is an image of the modulation on my web site at: >http://www.g4cnn.f2s.com >> >> 73, John, G4CNN >> >> >> -----Original Message----- >> From: "Vernall" >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> Date: Tue Aug 14 14:53:56 PDT 2001 >> Subject: LF: 183 carrier received in ZL >> >> >Hi all,> >> >I report quite good reception of a 183 kHz carrier around ZL sunrise this >> >morning. I presume it is the German broadcast station, as the frequency >is >> >relatively unique, not being on the 9 kHz raster of carrier frequencies >for >> >LF AM broadcasting in ITU Region 1 (the standard frequencies are 181 and >190 >> >kHz for that part of the band). >> > >> >I have a series of 3 Argo captures, which show some deep fades, but at >best >> >it is a very good "solid line" on Argo (30 second dot setting). >> > >> >I found the carrier frequency to be within 0.1 Hz of 183 kHz. It would >be >> >good if a local amateur could confirm that the 183 carrier is very close >to >> >declared frequency. >> > >> >I was advised by Mike ZL4OL that sunrise/sunset times for mid August mean >> >that the only dark path times for Germany to New Zealand are around ZL >> >sunrise, and then for only tens of minutes. 183 carrier was received for >> >much longer than that, but did build up and then drop out either side of >the >> >time for a dark path. Reception of 183 around ZL sunset has been nil, >but >> >that is not surprising for current sunrise in Germany. >> > >> >There is perhaps a glimmer of hope for amateur QRP signals to make it >> >between EU and ZL ???? >> > >> >The ZL6QH trustee has made a request to the New Zealand licensing >authority >> >for the European 136 kHz band to be added to the existing low frequency >> >permit. >> > >> >73, Bob ZL2CA >> > >> > >> >> >> ___________________________________________________ >> GO.com Mail >> Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com >> >> >> > > ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18261 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2001 16:41:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Aug 2001 16:41:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 28848 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2001 16:41:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Aug 2001 16:41:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15X3dm-0003xL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:35:34 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15X3dM-0003xE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:35:08 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15X3cf-00046a-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:34:25 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15X3cf-0001YA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:34:25 +0100 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 17:36:33 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: 183 carrier received in ZL X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Looking at the Europe 1 web pages suggested by F1TAY, and if my understanding of the french is correct, the 183kHz signal is transmitted using a 4 element array beaming south west on a bearing of 220degrees. This would seem to favour propagation via a long path to ZL - is this consistent with ZL2CA's reception in the morning? The ERP of the signal going the other way over the north pole must be much lower. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24189 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2001 15:04:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Aug 2001 15:04:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 16445 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2001 15:04:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Aug 2001 15:04:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15X1pb-0002uD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:39:39 +0100 Received: from smtp-rt-6.wanadoo.fr ([193.252.19.160] helo=caroubier.wanadoo.fr) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15X1pY-0002u8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 15:39:36 +0100 Received: from citronier.wanadoo.fr (193.252.19.222) by caroubier.wanadoo.fr; 15 Aug 2001 16:38:25 +0200 Received: from v1j7v5 (193.249.94.224) by citronier.wanadoo.fr; 15 Aug 2001 16:38:24 +0200 Message-ID: <008301c12597$f0492760$e05ef9c1@v1j7v5> From: "f1tay" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5784348.997870140968.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp01> Subject: Re: LF: 183 carrier received in ZL Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 14:26:12 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The TX LW of Europe 1 is in Germany not in France. The studio is at Paris (France). Europe 1 is a french langage commerciale station created in 1955. Internet site on Europe 1 and France-Inter LW TX : http://home.worldnet.fr/~tvignaud/ 73 de Daniel ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Sexton" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 10:09 AM Subject: Re: LF: 183 carrier received in ZL > Hi Bob, > It sounds as though you have found it. When this station is not visible, there is no chance of receiving amateur transmissions from Europe. > Europe 1 is situated at Saarlouis, France 06E41/49N17. > This is a 2MW station and as you say does not conform to the 9 kHz raster for ITU 1. To achieve very high modulation depth, they compress the normal dynamic range of speech so that the sidebands are rather dense, but this may not be observable. > There is an image of the modulation on my web site at: http://www.g4cnn.f2s.com > > 73, John, G4CNN > > > -----Original Message----- > From: "Vernall" > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Date: Tue Aug 14 14:53:56 PDT 2001 > Subject: LF: 183 carrier received in ZL > > >Hi all,> > >I report quite good reception of a 183 kHz carrier around ZL sunrise this > >morning. I presume it is the German broadcast station, as the frequency is > >relatively unique, not being on the 9 kHz raster of carrier frequencies for > >LF AM broadcasting in ITU Region 1 (the standard frequencies are 181 and 190 > >kHz for that part of the band). > > > >I have a series of 3 Argo captures, which show some deep fades, but at best > >it is a very good "solid line" on Argo (30 second dot setting). > > > >I found the carrier frequency to be within 0.1 Hz of 183 kHz. It would be > >good if a local amateur could confirm that the 183 carrier is very close to > >declared frequency. > > > >I was advised by Mike ZL4OL that sunrise/sunset times for mid August mean > >that the only dark path times for Germany to New Zealand are around ZL > >sunrise, and then for only tens of minutes. 183 carrier was received for > >much longer than that, but did build up and then drop out either side of the > >time for a dark path. Reception of 183 around ZL sunset has been nil, but > >that is not surprising for current sunrise in Germany. > > > >There is perhaps a glimmer of hope for amateur QRP signals to make it > >between EU and ZL ???? > > > >The ZL6QH trustee has made a request to the New Zealand licensing authority > >for the European 136 kHz band to be added to the existing low frequency > >permit. > > > >73, Bob ZL2CA > > > > > > > ___________________________________________________ > GO.com Mail > Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9265 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2001 11:48:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Aug 2001 11:48:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 14311 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2001 11:48:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Aug 2001 11:48:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Wz43-0001Ff-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:42:23 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Wz3r-0001Fa-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:42:12 +0100 Received: from [213.122.80.220] (helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #9) id 15Wz3C-0004KT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:41:30 +0100 Message-ID: <000201c1257f$1782b1c0$dc507ad5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: GI3PDM Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 12:15:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all I thought I caught a snatch of a couple of short calls from GI3PDM today at 1100z ish.....it might just have been someone calling him though as I had a 'drifty' come up at the same time. Probably 569 under normal condition but the static is building up as well now. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11493 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2001 10:17:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Aug 2001 10:17:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 7024 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2001 10:17:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Aug 2001 10:17:45 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Wxcn-0000IM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:10:09 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [204.202.140.199] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15WxcX-0000H8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 11:09:53 +0100 Received: from gomailjtp01 ([10.212.0.161]) by mta07.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GI300E4BTIZJY@mta07.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 03:08:59 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 03:09:00 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Sexton" Subject: Re: LF: 183 carrier received in ZL To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <5784348.997870140968.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Bob, It sounds as though you have found it. When this station is not visible, there is no chance of receiving amateur transmissions from Europe. Europe 1 is situated at Saarlouis, France 06E41/49N17. This is a 2MW station and as you say does not conform to the 9 kHz raster for ITU 1. To achieve very high modulation depth, they compress the normal dynamic range of speech so that the sidebands are rather dense, but this may not be observable. There is an image of the modulation on my web site at: http://www.g4cnn.f2s.com 73, John, G4CNN -----Original Message----- From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue Aug 14 14:53:56 PDT 2001 Subject: LF: 183 carrier received in ZL >Hi all,> >I report quite good reception of a 183 kHz carrier around ZL sunrise this >morning. I presume it is the German broadcast station, as the frequency is >relatively unique, not being on the 9 kHz raster of carrier frequencies for >LF AM broadcasting in ITU Region 1 (the standard frequencies are 181 and 190 >kHz for that part of the band). > >I have a series of 3 Argo captures, which show some deep fades, but at best >it is a very good "solid line" on Argo (30 second dot setting). > >I found the carrier frequency to be within 0.1 Hz of 183 kHz. It would be >good if a local amateur could confirm that the 183 carrier is very close to >declared frequency. > >I was advised by Mike ZL4OL that sunrise/sunset times for mid August mean >that the only dark path times for Germany to New Zealand are around ZL >sunrise, and then for only tens of minutes. 183 carrier was received for >much longer than that, but did build up and then drop out either side of the >time for a dark path. Reception of 183 around ZL sunset has been nil, but >that is not surprising for current sunrise in Germany. > >There is perhaps a glimmer of hope for amateur QRP signals to make it >between EU and ZL ???? > >The ZL6QH trustee has made a request to the New Zealand licensing authority >for the European 136 kHz band to be added to the existing low frequency >permit. > >73, Bob ZL2CA > > ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18648 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2001 09:38:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Aug 2001 09:38:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 18269 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2001 09:38:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Aug 2001 09:38:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Wx2a-0008Uk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:32:44 +0100 Received: from mail4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.211]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Wx2J-0008Ua-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:32:28 +0100 Received: from modem-544.arcanine.dialup.pol.co.uk ([217.135.18.32] helo=robing) by mail4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15Wx1M-0008VD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 10:31:29 +0100 Message-ID: <000b01c12565$07d66420$201287d9@robing> From: "Robin T. Greenwood" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.5.32.20010815052142.008d37e0@pop3.esoterica.pt> Subject: LF: Re: Surplus SMPSU Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:33:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I too am looking for such PSUs. Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Rogerson" To: Sent: Wednesday, August 15, 2001 6:21 AM Subject: LF: Surplus SMPSU > To all, > > Some months ago there were some Ericsson 28v 25A SMPSUs available. > > If anyone has any surplus to requirements and is interested in parting with > one (or two) I wonder if they would e-mail me via direct? > > 73, Brian > > 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W > http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12924 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2001 05:39:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Aug 2001 05:39:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 2300 invoked from network); 15 Aug 2001 05:38:38 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Aug 2001 05:38:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Wt8t-0006K9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 06:22:59 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rhun.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.26]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Wt8s-0006K4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 06:22:58 +0100 Received: from srv17slx.esoterica.pt (srv17slx.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.47]) by rhun.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f7F5MIu10116 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 06:22:18 +0100 (WEST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from slave2 (por336.esoterica.pt [195.22.18.36]) by srv17slx.esoterica.pt (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA19679 for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 06:22:17 +0100 (WET DST) Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010815052142.008d37e0@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 05:21:42 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: LF: Surplus SMPSU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To all, Some months ago there were some Ericsson 28v 25A SMPSUs available. If anyone has any surplus to requirements and is interested in parting with one (or two) I wonder if they would e-mail me via direct? 73, Brian 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13287 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2001 22:11:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Aug 2001 22:11:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 16453 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2001 22:11:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Aug 2001 22:11:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15WmAc-0002An-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 22:56:18 +0100 Received: from mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.17]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15WmAb-0002Ag-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 22:56:17 +0100 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.178.112]) by mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010814215452.LPHF1319844.mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:54:52 +1200 Message-ID: <004c01c1250b$b81d9920$41b21bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001e01c12497$f6364d20$0d9c153e@w8k3f0> <15WfE5-0EO2eeC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> <000001c124f7$31973640$ce85153e@w8k3f0> Subject: LF: 183 carrier received in ZL Date: Wed, 15 Aug 2001 09:53:56 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, I report quite good reception of a 183 kHz carrier around ZL sunrise this morning. I presume it is the German broadcast station, as the frequency is relatively unique, not being on the 9 kHz raster of carrier frequencies for LF AM broadcasting in ITU Region 1 (the standard frequencies are 181 and 190 kHz for that part of the band). I have a series of 3 Argo captures, which show some deep fades, but at best it is a very good "solid line" on Argo (30 second dot setting). I found the carrier frequency to be within 0.1 Hz of 183 kHz. It would be good if a local amateur could confirm that the 183 carrier is very close to declared frequency. I was advised by Mike ZL4OL that sunrise/sunset times for mid August mean that the only dark path times for Germany to New Zealand are around ZL sunrise, and then for only tens of minutes. 183 carrier was received for much longer than that, but did build up and then drop out either side of the time for a dark path. Reception of 183 around ZL sunset has been nil, but that is not surprising for current sunrise in Germany. There is perhaps a glimmer of hope for amateur QRP signals to make it between EU and ZL ???? The ZL6QH trustee has made a request to the New Zealand licensing authority for the European 136 kHz band to be added to the existing low frequency permit. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16680 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2001 19:26:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Aug 2001 19:26:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 224 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2001 19:25:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Aug 2001 19:25:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Wjk2-0000jd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 20:20:42 +0100 Received: from cmailenv4.svr.pol.co.uk ([213.218.77.56]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Wjjr-0000jY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 20:20:31 +0100 Received: from [62.21.133.206] (helo=w8k3f0) by cmailENV4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15WjjE-0003cU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:19:52 +0000 Message-ID: <000001c124f7$31973640$ce85153e@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001e01c12497$f6364d20$0d9c153e@w8k3f0> <15WfE5-0EO2eeC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> Subject: Re: LF: Radiated power at PA0SE Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 21:24:44 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Uwe, Andy, G4JNT, already provided the answer in fundamental form. I use a simple rule that I can easily remember. At the small distance used for measuring field strength the ground constants do play a role and the field strength decreases in a linear way with distance. What I have to remember is that a radiated power of 1kW produces a FS of 300mV/m at 1km distance. That becomes 300/5.83 = 51.46mV/m at a distance of 5.83km where I made the measurement. The FS found was 0.370mV/m. So the radiated power was (0.370/51.46)^2 * 1000 watt = 0.0517W. 73, Dick, PA0SE JO22GD ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- Van: jannsen <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> Aan: Verzonden: dinsdag 14 augustus 2001 16:31 Onderwerp: Re: LF: Radiated power at PA0SE > Dick Rollema schrieb: > > To All from PA0SE > > > ...................... > I found a FS of 370 > > microvolt/metre. From this follows an impressive radiated power (EIRP) of 52 > > milliwatt. > ............................. > > > > 73, Dick, PA0SE > > Dick, > you worked out / calculated that 370uV/m fieldstrength is 52mW EIRP (on 136kHz > I guess). what program did you use ? > regards > Uwe/dj8wx > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8440 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2001 18:33:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Aug 2001 18:33:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 22890 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2001 18:33:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Aug 2001 18:33:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Wimx-0000CE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:19:39 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from bucky-rwcmex.excite.com ([198.3.99.218] helo=bucky.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Wimt-0000C6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 19:19:35 +0100 Received: from roary.excite.com ([199.172.148.162]) by bucky.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010814181824.KWUJ28081.bucky.excite.com@roary.excite.com> for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:18:24 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <19492093.997813104176.JavaMail.imail@roary.excite.com> Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:18:23 -0700 (PDT) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Radiated power at PA0SE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 62.253.64.5 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Andy, I guess the line: >So EIRP of Tx = (Watts / m^2)* 4.PI.R^2 = E^2 / 4 * PI * R^2 should read:(?) So EIRP of Tx = (Watts / m^2)* 4.PI.R^2 = E^2 /377* 4 * PI * R^2 John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10528 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2001 15:21:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Aug 2001 15:21:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 10360 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2001 15:21:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Aug 2001 15:21:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15WftI-00075A-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:14:00 +0100 Received: from relay.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.49]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15WftE-000755-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:13:56 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 32380 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2001 16:13:16 +0100 Received: from trtnmail.dera.gov.uk (146.80.9.56) by relay.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 14 Aug 2001 16:13:16 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 21227 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2001 16:15:28 +0100 Received: (ofmipd 192.5.29.90); 14 Aug 2001 15:15:06 -0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id QAA30311; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:19:29 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 25162 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2001 16:04:05 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 14 Aug 2001 16:04:05 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id PAA04488; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:50:36 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma004473; Tue, 14 Aug 01 15:50:27 GMT Received: from mailex.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:13:34 +0100 Received: (qmail 5131 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2001 15:01:01 +0100 Date: 14 Aug 2001 16:11:22 +0100 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C596@PDW-MAIL-R1> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-5Received: from softdnserror (HELO cchecker.dstl.gov.uk) (192.168.248.52) by mailex.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 14 Aug 2001 14:01:01 -0000 X-4Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by cchecker.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.2) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:00:41 +0100 X-3Received: by frn-mail-r3.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)id ; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:11:20 +0100 Subject: RE: LF: Radiated power at PA0SE MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > ...................... > I found a FS of 370 microvolt/metre. From this follows an impressive radiated > power (EIRP) of 52 milliwatt. >I guess). what program did you use ? You don't need a programme, just work from basic theory ...... >From Ohms law E^2 / Zo (of free space = 377 ohms) = Watts / m^2 At a distance R from an omnidirectional radiator (the definition of EIRP), all the transmitted power is spread out over a sphere of surface area 4 * PI * R^2, which is equal to your measured power density in W/m^2 So EIRP of Tx = (Watts / m^2) * 4.PI.R^2 = E^2 / 4 * PI * R^2 where E isthe measured field strength in Volts / metre Then if you really want it in terms of dipole ERP, just subtract the magic figure of 2.14dB ( or divide by 1.64) , ie. the gain of a dipole. Andy G4JNT -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2685 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2001 14:43:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Aug 2001 14:43:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 17257 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2001 14:43:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Aug 2001 14:43:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15WfLp-0006lj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:39:25 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from user116.dial3.jtfreesurf.co.uk ([212.9.11.116] helo=PENBRYN-2) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15WfLn-0006lb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:39:24 +0100 Message-ID: X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 21:23:37 +0100 X-Priority: 3 From: "Brian McNaughton" <08718718989@komtel.co.uk> X-Mailer: MailMaster 2 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Subject: LF: 0871 871 8989 - CallSaver Gateway - Now open to call UK numbers as well! Content-Type: Text/Html; charset=ISO-8859-1 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-SMTP-Server: PostCast Server 1.0.0 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender:
Hi,
 
You can now use CallSaver to call numbers in the UK as well as internationally as well as using CallSaver
almost worldwide to call around the world and on your mobile phone while roaming - see special web page
about roaming at http://www.komtel.co.uk/08718718989_roaming.htm
 
If you are in the UK and would like to call around the World right now, for the cost of a UK
national rate call just dial 0871 871 8989 and when you hear the dialtone, simply dial the
international number you require, starting 00 and end with a # key - you will
then be conneted.
 
For further details including how to dial from outside the UK and prices from mobile networks, see
http://www.komtel.co.uk/08718718989.htm
 
If you have any questions, please email callsaver@komtel.co.uk and you should get an almost
immediate response.
 
Nothing to set up, so from the UK just dial 0871 871 8989 and away you go - TRY IT RIGHT NOW!!
 
THERE IS NO CATCH - TRY IT!! You can even call from outside the UK to other countries on our
list as well as to other UK numbers by dialling the following access numbers:
 
UK - 0871 871 8989
Europe - 00 44 70 5055 7000
USA/Canada - 011 44 70 5055 7000
 
If you wish to complain about receiving this email, please see this link which will give you the correct
address eo email your complaint to - http://www.komtel.co.uk/spam_complaints.htm
 
 
Brian McNaughton
CallSaver Marketing
http://www.komtel.co.uk
 
================================================================
PLEASE DO NOT REPLY TO THIS ADDRESS AS IT WILL NOT REACH THE SENDER USE THE ADDRESS ABOVE
================================================================
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17700 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2001 14:36:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Aug 2001 14:36:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 9678 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2001 14:36:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Aug 2001 14:36:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15WfEw-0006eV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:32:18 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout06.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.19] helo=mailout06.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15WfEr-0006eO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 15:32:14 +0100 Received: from fwd05.sul.t-online.de by mailout06.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 15WfEB-00033C-02; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:31:31 +0200 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[217.87.109.187]) by fwd05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 15WfE5-0EO2eeC; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:31:25 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001e01c12497$f6364d20$0d9c153e@w8k3f0> Subject: Re: LF: Radiated power at PA0SE X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 16:31:25 +0200 Message-ID: <15WfE5-0EO2eeC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dick Rollema schrieb: > To All from PA0SE > ...................... I found a FS of 370 > microvolt/metre. From this follows an impressive radiated power (EIRP) of 52 > milliwatt. ............................. > > 73, Dick, PA0SE Dick, you worked out / calculated that 370uV/m fieldstrength is 52mW EIRP (on 136kHz I guess). what program did you use ? regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21956 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2001 12:16:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Aug 2001 12:16:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 5572 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2001 12:16:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Aug 2001 12:16:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Wd1M-0005Pz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:10:08 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Wd1I-0005Pu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:10:04 +0100 Received: from abc (man-s070.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.41.197]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id f7EC9L326880 for ; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 13:09:21 +0100 Message-ID: <000201c124b9$e4de2d00$c529f7c2@zetnet.co.uk> From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000701c11693$d30665e0$0e2df7c2@zetnet.co.uk> <005d01c116ad$fc527460$882c1997@KOSOVEUALESSANDRO> Subject: LF: Re: R: RS232 over optical fibre Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 11:18:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Ciao, Grazie per le informazione (? non ho usato questa lingua dopo 30 anni). [Thank you for the information] 73 John Rabson G3PAI ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alessandro - IW3SGT" To: Sent: Friday, July 27, 2001 4:08 PM Subject: LF: R: RS232 over optical fibre > Hello, > > > I use a Psion 3c organiser to control a Lowe HF250 RX via a 1200 baud > serial > > link (no handshaking) for cave radio experiments. Unfortunately, the Psion > > produces strong RFI on some frequencies. This seems to radiate from the > > cable. I would like to try an optical cable isntead of a copper one. Can > > anyone advise on choice of cable and interfaces please? > > I do not know the PSION 3c organizer, I use the RS232 optical > interfaces made by CLE www.cle.sm for my EMC equipment. > (data sheet: http://www.cle.sm/manopto.pdf ) > > Ciao > > Ale > > --------------------------------------------------------------- > Alessandro Kosoveu > IW3SGT - IV3-2161/TS > P.O. BOX 238 - 34100 TRIESTE - ITALY > e-mail: iw3sgt@qsl.net - iw3sgt@libero.it > home page: http://www.qsl.net/iw3sgt > --------------------------------------------------------------- > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6672 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2001 08:16:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Aug 2001 08:16:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 25610 invoked from network); 14 Aug 2001 08:16:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Aug 2001 08:16:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15WZ6h-00035P-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 08:59:23 +0100 Received: from cmailenv2.svr.pol.co.uk ([213.218.77.54]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15WZ6D-00035K-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 08:58:53 +0100 Received: from [62.21.156.13] (helo=w8k3f0) by cmailENV2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15WZ5W-0006AQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 14 Aug 2001 07:58:10 +0000 Message-ID: <001e01c12497$f6364d20$0d9c153e@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Radiated power at PA0SE Date: Tue, 14 Aug 2001 10:05:01 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
To All from PA0SE
 
Yesterday I have measured the field strength of my LF transmitter at a distance of 5.83km; more than enough to be outside the near field  that would disturb the measurement. The location was open countryside without buildings and streetlamps or other signs of buried cables that could distort the field.
Using an untuned single turn loop and a Wandel & Goltermann selective level meter type SPM-12, run off the car battery, I found a FS of 370 microvolt/metre. From this follows an impressive radiated power (EIRP) of 52 milliwatt.
 
I simulated the aerial system using computer program AO.
The impedance at the feed point of the arerial is given by the computer as Z = 0.045 - j3817 ohms.
 
Aerial current is 1.95A. This results in an EIRP of 1.95 * 1.95 * 0.045 W = 171 milliwatt.
Measured value was 52 milliwatt. Apparantly 5.2dB is lost due to radiation into the earth and absorption in surrounding objects of the aerial; a figure that has been reported by others as well.
 
I also measured the field strength of DCF139 in the countryside and found 2mV/m,  the same value as in my shack.
 
I have sent this message before, but then extended with a photograph (40.7kB) and description of the aerial system. But this was apparantly rejected by the reflector; at least I did not receive in my own mailbox.    
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15917 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2001 19:07:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Aug 2001 19:07:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 20959 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2001 19:06:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Aug 2001 19:06:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15WMso-0004eo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2001 19:56:14 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout03.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.81] helo=mailout03.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15WMsn-0004ej-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2001 19:56:14 +0100 Received: from fwd01.sul.t-online.de by mailout03.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 15WMsA-0000ci-00; Mon, 13 Aug 2001 20:55:34 +0200 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.227.109.122]) by fwd01.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 15WMru-1vWDxIC; Mon, 13 Aug 2001 20:55:18 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3B67E2DC.11625.698A07@localhost> Subject: Re: LF: DARC web site/PLC X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 20:55:18 +0200 Message-ID: <15WMru-1vWDxIC@fwd01.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike Dennison schrieb: ................. > I have e-mailed the webmaster but have had no reply - possibly because I > wrote in English. Ultimately, if such a file exists I need to find a way of > getting > it on the RSGB web site. Can anyone help with this, please? > ............. > > Mike Dennison, G3XDV > Publications Manager .................... Hi Mike, reading all the e-mails after vacation I found urs. did u get the sound-file inbetween ? I can send e-mail to ur adr with the file enclosed (152kB). regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25488 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2001 13:19:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Aug 2001 13:19:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 20646 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2001 13:19:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Aug 2001 13:19:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15WHWq-0001Tp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2001 14:13:12 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15WHWn-0001Tj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2001 14:13:09 +0100 Received: from ldsas12-76-127-128.cw-visp.com ([212.137.127.128] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15WHOQ-0003wU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:04:31 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B77C2C6.C6015A7C@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 13:06:30 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: decca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Tnx to everyone that replied to my query about the decca boards both private email and this system. de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3688 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2001 08:59:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Aug 2001 08:59:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 8110 invoked from network); 13 Aug 2001 08:59:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Aug 2001 08:59:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15WDOQ-0007T4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2001 09:48:14 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.7]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15WDO9-0007Sy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 13 Aug 2001 09:47:57 +0100 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id l.83.e700d59 (4116) for ; Mon, 13 Aug 2001 04:46:42 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <83.e700d59.28a8edf1@aol.com> Date: Mon, 13 Aug 2001 04:46:41 EDT Subject: LF: OM2TW To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 107 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: With apologies to the reflector. Rich. Thank you for your letter and order for the DDS PCB etc. Unfortunately you didn't include your address and there has been no reply from your e-mail. Can you contact me ASAP please. 73 David G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19085 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2001 21:05:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Aug 2001 21:05:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 16139 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2001 21:05:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Aug 2001 21:05:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15W2MZ-0001BS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2001 22:01:35 +0100 Received: from cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15W2MY-0001BN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2001 22:01:34 +0100 Received: from modem-187.eldacar.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.179.187] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15W2Lt-00089r-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2001 22:00:53 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c12372$2195e4c0$bbb3883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. 73KHz Beacon Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 22:02:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
No Beacon tonight,will wait until conditions improve.73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27433 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2001 21:01:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Aug 2001 21:01:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 4480 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2001 21:00:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Aug 2001 21:00:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15W2I7-00019R-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2001 21:56:59 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.39]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15W2I6-00019M-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2001 21:56:58 +0100 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15W2HS-000G7E-0B; Sun, 12 Aug 2001 20:56:18 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B76ECD8.7C152C87@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 21:53:44 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Weekend Report, 11/12-08-2001 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All It was good to hear so many stations on 136 kHz again. Finbar EI0CF has a new antenna up, and will try to operate during the day on Monday; Tuesday; and Wednesday of this week. Finbar can't guarantee any specific operating schedule, but try listening for him at even hours, UTC: e.g. 08:00; 10:00; 12:00; etc.. Reminder: Some LF operation from lighthouses is planned for 18/19th August (DF2BC/P and OH1AH). Check the Noticeboard on the G3YXM web site for details. As for this past weekend, there was lots of rain at my QTH in Chepstow, so there were not many opportunities to use my vertical antenna, but here is what I worked/heard (mostly using my single-turn loop antenna, running east-west - hence deep nulls to the north and south): Saturday, 11th August --------------------- 05:54 G4CNN RST 559 sent, RST 579 received 16:13 G6RO 559, 329 Also, I heard: 06:50 DF0WD 559 07:09 G0AKY 579 07:09 G3KMP 559 07:16 DJ5DI 559 09:45 DJ9IE 569 09:50 F6BWO 559 18:50 EI0CF 439 Sunday, 12th August ------------------- 07:49 G3YMC 559, 579 14:17 G6RO 559, 439 16:05 GW4HXO 599, 559 Also, I heard: 07:38 G3BDQ 579 07:39 PA0SE 559 08:09 EI0CF 559 08:50 G6RO 569 09:14 F6BWO 559 09:14 ON6ND 579 10:38 MM0ALM 589 10:58 PA0BWL 559 13:52 DF6NM 449 13:56 DJ5DI 559 Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12441 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2001 19:06:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Aug 2001 19:06:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 15691 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2001 19:06:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Aug 2001 19:06:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15W0UB-000047-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2001 20:01:19 +0100 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15W0UA-000042-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2001 20:01:18 +0100 Received: from [213.1.142.24] (helo=default) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #9) id 15W0T6-0002jk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2001 20:00:13 +0100 Message-ID: <000101c12360$ec5f84c0$188e01d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots July /August Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 19:58:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all there has not been a lot posted to the DX Cluster in the last few weeks which probably indicates low activity in continental countries. My own occasional monitoring this weekend (11/12th August) showed a lot more activity. Saturday heard at some time were G6RO, GW4HXO, G3AQC, DJ9IE, F6BWO, PA0SE, AND GW4ALG. On Sunday ON6ND, G6RO, GW4HXO, MM0ALM, EI0CF, PA0BWL. At about 1415 to 1430z I heard two station having a contact I think I copied DJ??? but soon one of my TV drifties obscured the frequency (137.01kHz) Steve was working G6RO a little lower in frequency. At about 1830z I copied the tail end of a qrs CQ "....NM K" which may have been Markus. DF6NM? The poor weather on sunday seemed to keep a lot of my neighbours indoors so the TV problems started earlier than usual at a weekend. Cluster spots follow.... 136.5 G3AQC 11-Aug-2001 1019Z 559 Laurie in QSO F6BWO 136.5 F6BWO 11-Aug-2001 1014Z clg CQ 419 QRN QRM 136.5 FG6BWO 11-Aug-2001 1013Z clg CQ 419 137.0 OH1AH 26-Jul-2001 0639Z 18 aug. 09.00UTC 24h-> 136.6 OK1CS 24-Jul-2001 1104Z 559 from io84 136.5 OK1RP 24-Jul-2001 1102Z just 589 Petr! 136.5 OM2TW 22-Jul-2001 0927Z cq 136.8 OM2TW 22-Jul-2001 0924Z bfr (09;22 ut) i`m heard 136.5 OM2TW 21-Jul-2001 1832Z cq 136.6 GW4HXO 14-Jul-2001 1003Z (589) cq G3NYK de GB7MRS 12-Aug-2001 1845Z > Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3075 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2001 18:43:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Aug 2001 18:43:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 8146 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2001 18:43:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Aug 2001 18:43:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Vzya-0008Iz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2001 19:28:40 +0100 Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15VzyY-0008Iu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2001 19:28:39 +0100 Received: from modem-590.alakazam.dialup.pol.co.uk ([217.135.10.78] helo=robing) by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15Vzxt-0004Hr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2001 19:27:58 +0100 Message-ID: <000701c12354$795197e0$4e0a87d9@robing> From: "Robin T. Greenwood" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010812180342.00a40ca0@mail.pncl.co.uk> Subject: Re: LF: decca Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 18:30:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: After testing, I finished up with a 3mm stainless rod 750 mm long on my Amp of this type for satisfactory performance. Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Walter Blanchard" To: Sent: Sunday, August 12, 2001 6:28 PM Subject: Re: LF: decca > At 08:49 12/08/01 Sunday, GII3kev wrote: > > >Does anyone have the in/out connection for the decca amp.assy 80355/cf > >and what is the frequency range. (small rf preamp) > > This was used at Decca transmitter sites for reception of the other TX in > chain. > Antenna in is the floating Faston connector > Ground is TB1/2 and TB1/4 > Power in (was designed for 26v but works OK at 12v) depends whether you > want to feed it up the inner of the coax output or not. > If yes, connect coax outer to ground and inner to TB1/3. Check Link B made. > If no, disconnect Link B, feed power to TB1/1, take output from TB1/3. > TB1/5 can be used as separate ground for static discharge off antenna if > Link A disconnected. > Gain and frequency response can be altered by adjusting R9 but should not > go below 500 ohms otherwise will oscillate. > If R9 is missing then voltage gain is nil but power gain is maximum i.e. > maximum impedance transformation. Bandwidth is then something like 10-500 > kHz. If R9 made 1k or so voltage gain will be 30 dB and bandwidth 50-150 > kHz. > > >I think some are using these amps and wonder if anyone has discovered > >the optimum antenna whip length for best match and avoiding overload. > > They were designed for use with a "barrel" antenna (about same size and > shape as a small beer barrel) but work OK with ants up to 1m. > > >I have another cct board and not sure what it is, but looks like some > >interface to the aerial/coil control. > >The terminals are marked on one side as AE -CL+ K2 K1 G2 G1 and opposite > >terminals ST F 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 A B C D P and L N (expect this is mains in > >at live and neutral) The board is about 170 x 120 mm. I have 2 of these > >cct boards and each one has a small grey box. On one cct board the box > >is marked 27.24v and 28.8v and the other cct board box is marked 72v and > >68v. > > Don't know what this is. Main power around Tx ccts was 65-70v but 28v was > used to drive auxiliaries. > > The interface cct board that fed the preamp has eight screw terminals > marked AUX, RX, AE, POWER (26v)., two pot cores and a transformer. > > Where did you get them? Looks like some Decca surplus is getting on the market. > > Walter G3JKV. > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14201 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2001 18:13:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Aug 2001 18:13:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 19370 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2001 18:13:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Aug 2001 18:13:08 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15VzVl-00081g-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2001 18:58:53 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [204.202.140.198] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15VzVk-00081b-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2001 18:58:52 +0100 Received: from gomailjtp01 ([10.212.0.161]) by mta06.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GHY00DI6V8FXD@mta06.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2001 10:57:51 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 10:57:53 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Sexton" Subject: LF: Weekend on 137kHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <2382927.997639073061.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Lowfers, Activity seems to be picking up. Heard today, sunday: G6RO EI0CF (on 136.54 a.m. and p.m.) G3SDQ G3BDQ GW4ALG GW4HXO G3YMC ON6ND good strong signal PA0SE F6BWO and this evening calling CQ (no replies though) MM0ALM 73 John, G4CNN ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10148 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2001 17:32:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Aug 2001 17:32:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 24412 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2001 17:32:37 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Aug 2001 17:32:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Vz0T-0007ln-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2001 18:26:33 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Vz0S-0007li-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2001 18:26:32 +0100 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (94.235.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.235.94]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f7CHPpt27344 for ; Sun, 12 Aug 2001 18:25:52 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010812180342.00a40ca0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 18:28:54 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: Re: LF: decca In-reply-to: <3B763525.97D09647@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 08:49 12/08/01 Sunday, GII3kev wrote: >Does anyone have the in/out connection for the decca amp.assy 80355/cf >and what is the frequency range. (small rf preamp) This was used at Decca transmitter sites for reception of the other TX in chain. Antenna in is the floating Faston connector Ground is TB1/2 and TB1/4 Power in (was designed for 26v but works OK at 12v) depends whether you want to feed it up the inner of the coax output or not. If yes, connect coax outer to ground and inner to TB1/3. Check Link B made. If no, disconnect Link B, feed power to TB1/1, take output from TB1/3. TB1/5 can be used as separate ground for static discharge off antenna if Link A disconnected. Gain and frequency response can be altered by adjusting R9 but should not go below 500 ohms otherwise will oscillate. If R9 is missing then voltage gain is nil but power gain is maximum i.e. maximum impedance transformation. Bandwidth is then something like 10-500 kHz. If R9 made 1k or so voltage gain will be 30 dB and bandwidth 50-150 kHz. >I think some are using these amps and wonder if anyone has discovered >the optimum antenna whip length for best match and avoiding overload. They were designed for use with a "barrel" antenna (about same size and shape as a small beer barrel) but work OK with ants up to 1m. >I have another cct board and not sure what it is, but looks like some >interface to the aerial/coil control. >The terminals are marked on one side as AE -CL+ K2 K1 G2 G1 and opposite >terminals ST F 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 A B C D P and L N (expect this is mains in >at live and neutral) The board is about 170 x 120 mm. I have 2 of these >cct boards and each one has a small grey box. On one cct board the box >is marked 27.24v and 28.8v and the other cct board box is marked 72v and >68v. Don't know what this is. Main power around Tx ccts was 65-70v but 28v was used to drive auxiliaries. The interface cct board that fed the preamp has eight screw terminals marked AUX, RX, AE, POWER (26v)., two pot cores and a transformer. Where did you get them? Looks like some Decca surplus is getting on the market. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23005 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2001 11:15:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Aug 2001 11:15:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 24936 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2001 11:15:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Aug 2001 11:15:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Vt7c-0004V7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2001 12:09:32 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d12lmsgate.de.ibm.com ([195.212.91.199]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Vt7Z-0004V2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2001 12:09:30 +0100 Received: from d12relay02.de.ibm.com (d12relay02.de.ibm.com [9.165.215.23]) by d12lmsgate.de.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id NAA187998 for ; Sun, 12 Aug 2001 13:08:12 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (lig32-239-23-145.emea.lig-dial.ibm.com [32.239.23.145]) by d12relay02.de.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v4.97) with ESMTP id f7CB7o898524 for ; Sun, 12 Aug 2001 13:08:05 +0200 Message-ID: <3B766399.E0BCB0C2@usa.net> Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 13:08:10 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Mailing List" Subject: LF: Sunday morning on 137kHz Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------050008040004080907090506" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050008040004080907090506 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Good day all,
    strong signal from Claudio, IK2PII, this morning, calling CQ
at 137.710
The signal strength was helped, however, from the fact that
Claudio's QTH is less than 100 km from mine...

You can see from the attached picture how strong was
the QRN at my location.

73  Alberto  I2PHD


 
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from network); 12 Aug 2001 09:13:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Aug 2001 09:13:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Vr6G-0003RI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2001 10:00:00 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Vr6F-0003RD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2001 09:59:59 +0100 Received: from ldsas01-65-116-153.cw-visp.com ([212.137.116.153] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15Vqxt-0007Kd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2001 08:51:22 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B763525.97D09647@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 08:49:57 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: decca Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello all on LF Does anyone have the in/out connection for the decca amp.assy 80355/cf and what is the frequency range. (small rf preamp) I think some are using these amps and wonder if anyone has discovered the optimum antenna whip length for best match and avoiding overload. I have another cct board and not sure what it is, but looks like some interface to the aerial/coil control. The terminals are marked on one side as AE -CL+ K2 K1 G2 G1 and opposite terminals ST F 1 2 3 4 5 6 7 A B C D P and L N (expect this is mains in at live and neutral) The board is about 170 x 120 mm. I have 2 of these cct boards and each one has a small grey box. On one cct board the box is marked 27.24v and 28.8v and the other cct board box is marked 72v and 68v. All help/info appreciated. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23228 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2001 09:13:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Aug 2001 09:13:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 2035 invoked from network); 12 Aug 2001 09:13:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Aug 2001 09:13:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Vr6J-0003Rm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2001 10:00:03 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Vr6I-0003Rh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 12 Aug 2001 10:00:02 +0100 Received: from ldsas01-65-116-153.cw-visp.com ([212.137.116.153] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15Vqxy-0007Kq-00; Sun, 12 Aug 2001 08:51:26 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B7635F8.D3D3C406@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 08:53:28 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" , uk@netscapeonline.co.uk Subject: LF: qsp Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Derek I tried this message direct to you but it was rejected, maybe you have changed your email address. --------------- I was at the Hull rally last Sunday and met a friend of yours G3NEO/Philip from Sheffield. I was talking about LF at the RAFARS stand and he recognised my callsign. I said I would send you an email and give you the info. Hope you are well. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3435 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2001 21:13:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Aug 2001 21:13:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 29490 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2001 21:13:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Aug 2001 21:13:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Vfqk-0005gZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 11 Aug 2001 21:59:14 +0100 Received: from mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.15]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Vfqi-0005gU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 11 Aug 2001 21:59:13 +0100 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.178.133]) by mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010811205756.EVZA596077.mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Sun, 12 Aug 2001 08:57:56 +1200 Message-ID: <019901c122a8$410ff720$0100007f@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000501c12059$7533ed00$f36e01d5@default> Subject: LF: Re: Computer hash reduction Date: Sun, 12 Aug 2001 08:56:54 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alan, OK on your efforts at installing a filtered IEC fitting in the older power supply. > It is not an original idea but I decided an 'easy' solution might be to fit > a filtered IEC socket into the power supply box. A quick look at the spec > suggested that a 1 Amp or 3 Amp rated unit would be best as the chokes have > a higher inductance in the lower current rated sockets. I decided that > although a 1 Amp rated socket should be OK for a 250W supply I would play > safe and install a 3Amp unit (I also just conveniently happened to have one > in the junk box!!). snip > The results are quite pleasing. The clutch of six or seven 50Hz spaced > lines, with the strongest at S9 have disapeared and I can just see two or > three weak lines ( during the day. I suspect I may be able to get rid even of these by a bit of > careful re-routing of the leads and aerial feeds. Be wary of the range of inductance values used in IEC sockets. Some filtered sockets have rather low rejection in the LF band, even if they are fine for VHF/UHF broadcast bands. Another problem with some computer power supplies is that there are pairs of wire links "substituting" for a ferrite suppression choke in the mains input section. Suppression chokes have standard pinout, so they can be retrofitted if you can salvage them from some other PC junk. An external filter can also be effective, and is not so constrained as to size of inductors, for example, potcores can be used. At LF conducted noise is the main problem and the extra metre or two of power cords to reach the external filter is acceptable at the lower bands, as such a short lead has negligible "radiation resistance". Having an external inline filter also allows the computer peripheral devices to have their mains cords filtered as well (almost any PC device has a ruddy switch mode power supply, I have yet to find one that has no radio noise on the lower bands). Having an external filter is also quite handy for testing as sometimes it is the power supply in a monitor rather than the PC box that generates worst radio noises. For some time I have used an external inline filter on the household PC and another on the household TV, video, etc. Keep an eye out for mains filters at junk sales .... 73, Bob From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15376 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2001 16:20:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Aug 2001 16:20:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 6240 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2001 16:20:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Aug 2001 16:20:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15VbPu-0003Br-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 11 Aug 2001 17:15:14 +0100 Received: from cmailg2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.172]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15VbPt-0003Bl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 11 Aug 2001 17:15:13 +0100 Received: from modem-118.andunie.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.109.118] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15VbPD-0002Js-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 11 Aug 2001 17:14:31 +0100 Message-ID: <002a01c12280$f46c96c0$766d883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re 73KHz Beacon Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 17:15:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit

Hi All,
I ran the Beacon last night from 2330 to 0530 with no problems these Deccas run amazingly cool. Condx fairly good so will try again tonight, same time same freq. 73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19370 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2001 14:26:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Aug 2001 14:26:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 2301 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2001 14:25:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Aug 2001 14:25:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15VZdu-00027z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 11 Aug 2001 15:21:34 +0100 Received: from cmailenv4.svr.pol.co.uk ([213.218.77.56]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15VZdt-00027u-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 11 Aug 2001 15:21:33 +0100 Received: from [62.21.130.73] (helo=w8k3f0) by cmailENV4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15VZdH-0000R1-00; Sat, 11 Aug 2001 14:20:55 +0000 Message-ID: <003301c12271$e90740a0$4982153e@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Cc: "J. Kroon, PA0IF" , "Klaas Robers, PA0KLS" , "Koos Fockens, PA0KDF" , "Jan Harte, PA0HRT" , "Jan Ottens, PA0SSB" Subject: LF: Field strength of commercial LF stations Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 16:27:47 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
To All from PA0SE
 
I have measured the field strength of some commercial LF stations in my shack, using the untuned single turn loop method.
 
MSF                60 kHz        1.95mV/m  
 
Rugby           73.25 kHz   1.35mV/m
 
DCF 77          77.5kHz      2.54mV/m
 
Mainflingen 128.93kHz   3.62mV/m 
 
DCF139        138.83kHz   2.02mV/m
 
The transmitter at Mainflingen (near Frankfurt) radiates a similar signal, or perhaps the same one, as DCF139: a carrier with a burst of data in FSK at irregular intervals.
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16998 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2001 10:59:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Aug 2001 10:59:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 2254 invoked from network); 11 Aug 2001 10:59:14 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Aug 2001 10:59:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15VWCJ-0000Fm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 11 Aug 2001 11:40:51 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rhun.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.26]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15VWCF-0000Fh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 11 Aug 2001 11:40:48 +0100 Received: from srv17slx.esoterica.pt (srv17slx.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.47]) by rhun.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f7BAe7J06805 for ; Sat, 11 Aug 2001 11:40:07 +0100 (WEST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from slave2 (por083.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.83]) by srv17slx.esoterica.pt (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA07831 for ; Sat, 11 Aug 2001 11:40:06 +0100 (WET DST) Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010811103943.008d72c0@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 10:39:43 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: LF: Picture of ZL band in EU MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have added three SpecLab-grams covering 160 to 190KHz to my web pages. 73, Brian 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25738 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2001 21:58:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Aug 2001 21:58:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 3274 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2001 21:58:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 10 Aug 2001 21:58:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15VKE1-0001xa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 22:53:49 +0100 Received: from tomts6.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.26] helo=tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15VKDx-0001xV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 22:53:45 +0100 Received: from server1 ([216.209.138.66]) by tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010810215232.FDQQ3759.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:52:32 -0400 Message-ID: <000c01c121e5$cbb86010$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <965803.997454577531.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp01> <000301c121de$e47f7860$7cb21bca@xtr743187> Subject: Re: Re: LF: ZL DX testing 21 September (was 22 September) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:44:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Bob: > Looking further ahead, if we can get our permits amended to transmit around > 136 kHz, are there any suggestions as to what spot frequencies are suitable? Respectfully request you avoid 136.6 to 137.4, which is occupied by CFH + sideband noise when they are on. If you come above about 136.1, I will have to stop transmitting while I listen. NPG, I think in California was a major signal some time back, early 2000, I do not remember the frequency. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2753 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2001 21:03:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Aug 2001 21:03:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 29112 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2001 21:03:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Aug 2001 21:03:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15VJLt-0001Q2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 21:57:53 +0100 Received: from mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.15]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15VJLr-0001Pu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 21:57:52 +0100 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.178.124]) by mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010810205633.ZHEN596077.mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Sat, 11 Aug 2001 08:56:33 +1200 Message-ID: <000301c121de$e47f7860$7cb21bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <965803.997454577531.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp01> Subject: Re: Re: LF: ZL DX testing 21 September (was 22 September) Date: Sat, 11 Aug 2001 08:51:53 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, Thanks to each who made further comments on trying to sort out the quieter parts within the range 165 - 190 kHz. Looking further ahead, if we can get our permits amended to transmit around 136 kHz, are there any suggestions as to what spot frequencies are suitable? 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11156 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2001 19:52:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Aug 2001 19:52:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 1273 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2001 19:51:38 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 10 Aug 2001 19:51:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15VI8f-0000lC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:40:09 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from dargolad.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.27]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15VI8b-0000l7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:40:05 +0100 Received: from srv17slx.esoterica.pt (srv17slx.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.47]) by dargolad.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f7AJdOG25820 for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:39:24 +0100 (WEST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from slave2 (por049.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.49]) by srv17slx.esoterica.pt (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA05781 for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 20:39:23 +0100 (WET DST) Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010810193907.008da6b0@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 19:39:07 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: ZL DX testing 22 September In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Bob and Group, Having listened to the band between 160 and 190KHz this evening at around 1900 utc I confirm AM stations audible on 162 French speaking, 171 Arabic? and 183 French speaking from this location. Spectrogram shows the overlap region 166 to 167+ as maybe possible also from below 176 to 178. 172 does not seem too bad in spite of the carrier on 171. Hope to listen again tomorrow morning. 73, Brian At 15:34 09/08/01 +0000, you wrote: >Dear Bob, LF Group > >As I think I mentioned a while back, there is a quiet-ish segment in >the LF broadcast band, some hundreds of Hz wide centred on >about 172.0kHz. The sidebands of the adjacent broadcast stations >leak into it if they are carrying high-pitched programme material, but >most of the time during darkness the noise floor seems to be QRN, >at my location at least. This certainly seemed to be the quietest >frequency in the 165 - 190kHz range. > >Are there any strong signals in roughly this part of the spectrum >emanating from the VK/ ZL region that we could try to receive here >in Europe, as CFH and DBF39, etc, have been used over the trans- >atlantic path? This would give some sort of handle on the signal >levels and optimum time of day for a ZL > Eu attempt. I guess this >would be easier to do in the other direction - the Eu LF broadcast >stations are not exactly low-power, and operate continuously, so >should be a relatively easy target for reception in ZL. > >Cheers, Jim Moritz >73 de M0BMU > > > 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18573 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2001 16:11:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Aug 2001 16:11:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 24218 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2001 16:11:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Aug 2001 16:11:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15VEmL-0007GW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:04:53 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15VEmJ-0007GQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:04:51 +0100 Received: from abc (man-s316.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.45.187]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id f7AG45v18295 for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:04:05 +0100 Message-ID: <000401c121b6$01368800$bb2df7c2@zetnet.co.uk> From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000701c11e9c$dea56fc0$2b5f073e@default> Subject: LF: AD8307 (was VA3LK and conditions) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 17:02:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alan, May we have the reference please? 73 de John Rabson G3PAI > I have also come across a small simple PCB by DJ8ES that has a Analogue > Devices log converter ( AD8307..... 90dB range 500MHz BW !!) and a LT > serial i/f (I2C I think) A/D in VHF Comms. Not too useful if you want to > use the soundcard but handy for straight logging via the IF output. I dare > say this could be connected up on veroboard. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28980 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2001 14:50:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Aug 2001 14:50:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 18747 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2001 14:50:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Aug 2001 14:50:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15VDX1-0006YJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 15:44:59 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [204.202.140.198] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15VDWv-0006YD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 15:44:54 +0100 Received: from gomailjtp01 ([10.212.0.161]) by mta06.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GHU0040HWVJXY@mta06.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 07:42:55 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 07:42:57 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Sexton" Subject: Re: Re: LF: ZL DX testing 21 September (was 22 September) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <965803.997454577531.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Jim, Bob, LF group, This is very interesting. Most probably a result of the different antennas Jim and I are using. We not infrequently listen to the Kaliningrad transmitter, since it is one of the few Russian broadcast stations that is received well in the UK. They are 3 hours ahead of us and are currently on Summer time, hence their local midnight is 20.00 UTC. It is really only listenable after dark but then it is well received. The carrier is clearly present at all times and I can make out every second or third word in the middle of the day. By the way I found out why the anthem played was the old Soviet one. Apparently Yeltsin wanted it changed, but no satisfactory replacement was found and when Putin (known locally as Rasputin) came to power, being a good old boy he ordered that they stick with the old anthem. The transmitter is on all day long every day, at least until their midnight. The station I heard after their midnight on 171 kHz was definitely slavonic and could have been Moscow (which might stay on later), although interestingly there is indeed an Arabic station on this frequency, Nador, Morocco. 1.2kW and I guess this is what Jim is hearing. My loop points East/West and picks up the Eastern European stations in preference. I shall try the other loop tonight which is oriented North-South. By the way 180kHz is allocated to Ankara, Turkey. 1.2MW. I would confirm Mike's comments that if Europe 1 on 183kHz is not heard in ZL, then the chances are very slim. This is not a standard broadcast frequency by the way. Regards, John, G4CNN -----Original Message----- From: "James Moritz" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri Aug 10 05:45:28 PDT 2001 Subject: Re: LF: ZL DX testing 21 September >Dear Bob, John, LF group,> >I heard the Russian station on 171kHz for the first time last night - >it shut down at 2000 utc as John says, but was only audible from >1900 at my QTH, which might have been due to propagation, or >then again, it may just have been on the air for an hour. I have not >heard it before when monitoring this frequency, so it may have >very limited operating times. > >After it had closed down, another station was audible on the same >frequency, with what sounded like Arabic music playing, but this >was considerably weaker than the Russian station. Looking at a >spectrogram display at frequencies close to 172kHz, the effect of >this QRM was not unlike the "Luxembourg effect" noises often >heard at the top end of 136k. The net effect was to raise the noise >floor by a few dB, although QRN was still the main source of noise. > >Of course, one way to improve the situation would be to null out >the offending noise with a loop - if the wanted signal from ZL >comes over the pole, and the unwanted signals originate in Russia, >this should work fairly well - does anyone know what bearing a >signal from ZL should arrive on? > >It seems strange the LF spectrum does not get used much "down >under" - I would have thought it would work very well with all that >ocean to propagate over. > >DBF 39 transmits a carrier on 138.83kHz most of the time, >interspersed at intervals of several seconds with short bursts of >FSK data, mark 138.83kHz, space 139.17kHz. On a spectrogram, >it will look like a 138.83kHz carrier unless a very coarse resolution >is used. > >Cheers, Jim Moritz >73 de M0BMU > > > ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5564 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2001 12:36:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Aug 2001 12:36:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 8419 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2001 12:36:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Aug 2001 12:36:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15VBQ6-0005K1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:29:42 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15VBQ2-0005Jw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:29:38 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA1537326 for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 14:28:54 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010810132819.47578b5c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 13:28:19 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: ZL DX testing 21 September In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >Of course, one way to improve the situation would be to null out >the offending noise with a loop - if the wanted signal from ZL >comes over the pole, and the unwanted signals originate in Russia, >this should work fairly well - does anyone know what bearing a >signal from ZL should arrive on? ZL is very much antipode from us so the bearing epends very much on the location in ZL, there about degrees difference between the north and south of ZL : north-ZL = 30° shortpath / 210° longpath south-ZL = 80° shortpath / 260° longpath 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1206 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2001 11:52:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Aug 2001 11:52:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 5877 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2001 11:52:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Aug 2001 11:52:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15VAi2-0004tv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:44:10 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15VAhy-0004tq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:44:06 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15VAhK-00077z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:43:26 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15VAhJ-0004e3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:43:25 +0100 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 12:45:28 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: ZL DX testing 21 September X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Bob, John, LF group, I heard the Russian station on 171kHz for the first time last night - it shut down at 2000 utc as John says, but was only audible from 1900 at my QTH, which might have been due to propagation, or then again, it may just have been on the air for an hour. I have not heard it before when monitoring this frequency, so it may have very limited operating times. After it had closed down, another station was audible on the same frequency, with what sounded like Arabic music playing, but this was considerably weaker than the Russian station. Looking at a spectrogram display at frequencies close to 172kHz, the effect of this QRM was not unlike the "Luxembourg effect" noises often heard at the top end of 136k. The net effect was to raise the noise floor by a few dB, although QRN was still the main source of noise. Of course, one way to improve the situation would be to null out the offending noise with a loop - if the wanted signal from ZL comes over the pole, and the unwanted signals originate in Russia, this should work fairly well - does anyone know what bearing a signal from ZL should arrive on? It seems strange the LF spectrum does not get used much "down under" - I would have thought it would work very well with all that ocean to propagate over. DBF 39 transmits a carrier on 138.83kHz most of the time, interspersed at intervals of several seconds with short bursts of FSK data, mark 138.83kHz, space 139.17kHz. On a spectrogram, it will look like a 138.83kHz carrier unless a very coarse resolution is used. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7083 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2001 09:45:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Aug 2001 09:45:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 6060 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2001 09:45:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Aug 2001 09:45:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15V8l8-0003gx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:39:14 +0100 Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15V8kx-0003gl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:39:04 +0100 Received: from xtr743187 ([210.54.77.229]) by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010810093746.XWLP857403.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 21:37:46 +1200 Message-ID: <002801c12180$10702500$e54d36d2@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3B73A059.6642.17842E@localhost> Subject: Re: LF: ZL DX testing 21 September Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 21:30:10 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike, > > I suggest that LF propagation between ZL and G would likely be best when the > > path is "dark" or near "grey line" (in a similar manner as per 160 and 80 > > metres). The windows of opportunity are relatively brief. They also involve a > > "dawn parade" for "enthusiasts" at one end of the path, hi hi. > > The bad news is that this grey line path is likely to be VERY short duration. On > 160m, openings can be as short as 10 minutes. Thus the usual long > integration times are unlikely to be available. Looks like any QSO will have to > be integrated over a month of 5 minute bursts! > Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) So be it. We'll start with the first byte, and see what happens. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28631 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2001 09:36:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Aug 2001 09:36:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 6589 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2001 09:36:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 10 Aug 2001 09:36:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15V8dk-0003ZM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:31:36 +0100 Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15V8dh-0003ZH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:31:33 +0100 Received: from modem-137.eglantine.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.174.137] helo=g3aqc) by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15V8d2-00004N-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:30:53 +0100 Message-ID: <000e01c1217f$6580fd40$89ae883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. 73KHz Beacon Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 10:32:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi All,
Peter G3LDO has kindly lent me his Decca Tx which I have re-modified back to 73KHz. No more power than before but much more reliable! So propose to run some beacon tests this weekend
starting tonight. Freq 71.922KHz, 30 sec. dot DFCW,  0000 to 0430 UTC. All reports welcome, especially T/A.
I will also be available from time to time today and Saturday so if anyone would like to attempt a contact please let me know. I will use 71.722 for daytime transmissions.
73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10613 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2001 08:20:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Aug 2001 08:20:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 11529 invoked from network); 10 Aug 2001 08:20:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Aug 2001 08:20:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15V7FH-0002kJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:02:15 +0100 Received: from [195.102.249.205] (helo=mserv1e.vianw.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15V7FG-0002kE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:02:14 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1e.vianw.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #5) id 15V7Ea-00059z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:01:32 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v4.0.0.R) for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:50:35 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:50:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: ZL DX testing 21 September Message-ID: <3B73A059.6642.17842E@localhost> In-reply-to: <00b901c12113$ea827d00$49b51bca@xtr743187> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > I suggest that LF propagation between ZL and G would likely be best when the > path is "dark" or near "grey line" (in a similar manner as per 160 and 80 > metres). The windows of opportunity are relatively brief. They also involve a > "dawn parade" for "enthusiasts" at one end of the path, hi hi. The bad news is that this grey line path is likely to be VERY short duration. On 160m, openings can be as short as 10 minutes. Thus the usual long integration times are unlikely to be available. Looks like any QSO will have to be integrated over a month of 5 minute bursts! Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7116 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2001 22:42:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Aug 2001 22:42:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 23038 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2001 22:41:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Aug 2001 22:41:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15UyPu-0006Ep-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2001 23:36:38 +0100 Received: from mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.17]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15UyPt-0006Eh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2001 23:36:37 +0100 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.181.182]) by mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010809213957.NULE580885.mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:39:57 +1200 Message-ID: <00f001c1211b$c8c26060$49b51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010809190216.00a0cec0@mail.pncl.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: ZL tx Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 09:37:51 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Walter G3JKV, Thanks for your comments. > .... Until you hear DBF39 you won't hear us on 136. And even > then we would have to make up about 37 dB. It might be a good idea if > somebody in ZL could organise an automated watch on DBF for the next six > months to see if anything is heard (seen?). Shouldn't be too hard to do > with Argo, Speclab, or similar. OK, but it also needs checking as to where else 183 kHz is used. Can any EU reader confirm what the carrier frequency of DBF is (does it have an offset?)? LF broadcast stations that have been heard by ear in ZL are 180 kHz, which are likely in the Siberia region. However, as we now well know, Argo can dig a lot deeper. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12903 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2001 21:30:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Aug 2001 21:30:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 16633 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2001 21:30:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Aug 2001 21:30:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15UxFp-0005aY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2001 22:22:09 +0100 Received: from mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.17]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15UxFn-0005aP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2001 22:22:08 +0100 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.181.73]) by mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010809204338.MZHN580885.mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:43:38 +1200 Message-ID: <00b901c12113$ea827d00$49b51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: Re: LF: ZL DX testing 21 September Date: Fri, 10 Aug 2001 08:42:34 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Jim and other readers, Thanks for further comments on 172.0 kHz being a reasonably quiet part of the 165 - 190 kHz band in your neck of the woods. There are several participating ZL amateur LF stations, so we need more than one "slot" to handle the numbers. > Are there any strong signals in roughly this part of the spectrum > emanating from the VK/ ZL region that we could try to receive here > in Europe, as CFH and DBF39, etc, have been used over the trans- > atlantic path? This would give some sort of handle on the signal > levels and optimum time of day for a ZL > Eu attempt. There are aeronautical beacons, from 200 kHz upwards, however the frequencies are re-used many times around the globe, so QRM is an issue. The "Pacific gateway" beacon in the northern part of New Zealand is near Kaitaia, on 238 kHz, CW ID KT. This is a kilowatt type of beacon with a large antenna. A possibly useful identifier is the carrier frequency offset, which is around -1.3 to -1.4 Hz from 238 kHz. > I guess this > would be easier to do in the other direction - the Eu LF broadcast > stations are not exactly low-power, and operate continuously, so > should be a relatively easy target for reception in ZL. I suggest that LF propagation between ZL and G would likely be best when the path is "dark" or near "grey line" (in a similar manner as per 160 and 80 metres). The windows of opportunity are relatively brief. They also involve a "dawn parade" for "enthusiasts" at one end of the path, hi hi. Also note I have amended the subject title, and changed the date to 21 September (less confusing for chaps who live near Greenwich :-). 73, Bob From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5175 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2001 20:52:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Aug 2001 20:52:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 12108 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2001 20:52:09 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Aug 2001 20:52:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15UwbE-0005I3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2001 21:40:12 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15UwbD-0005Hy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2001 21:40:11 +0100 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (133.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.133]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f79KdV823376 for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2001 21:39:31 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010809190216.00a0cec0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 21:16:52 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: ZL tx MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: If you boys in ZL can't hear the German commercial monster Europe 1 on 183 kHz (2 megawatts erp) there doesn't seem much chance we'll hear you. All the integration in the world isn't going to recover 63 dB (assuming it's a reciprocal path of course). Working to VE7/W7 it is different - the approximately north/south darkness path for you means daylight in our half of the globe so Europe 1 shouldn't propagate around to VE7 and jam you although it's only half as far away. It has to go over the Polar Cap so add 20 db to the usual figures. And vice-versa. Until you hear DBF39 you won't hear us on 136. And even then we would have to make up about 37 dB. It might be a good idea if somebody in ZL could organise an automated watch on DBF for the next six months to see if anything is heard (seen?). Shouldn't be too hard to do with Argo, Speclab, or similar. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14992 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2001 20:50:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Aug 2001 20:50:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 10676 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2001 20:50:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Aug 2001 20:50:39 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Uwdq-0005IG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2001 21:42:54 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [204.202.140.199] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Uwdp-0005I9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2001 21:42:53 +0100 Received: from gomailjtp01 ([10.212.0.161]) by mta07.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GHT008RLIT7FI@mta07.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 9 Aug 2001 13:41:31 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 13:41:33 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Sexton" Subject: Re: Re: LF: ZL DX testing 22 September To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <3776476.997389693986.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Bob, Jim and the LF Group, Kaliningrad on 171 kHz was coming in loud and clear this evening and closed at their local midnight (20.00 UTC) with the old Soviet Anthem rather surprisingly, - still it is a naval base. There was still a carrier after this time, probably Lvov or Osipivichy, since I could just make out a slavonic language, which sounded more like Bielo Russian than Ukrainian. I can also see a carrier on 171.875, which is a TV line oscillator harmonic. Allouis on 162 spreads up to about 166 kHz. The quietest part of the ZL band (165 - 190) appears to be the 3kHz from 166 -169 kHz. 73, John, G4CNN PS apologies to Jim for sending a direct copy as well, my alternative e-mail provider (Go.com) does the opposite to Excite and automatically fills in the originator's email rather than the reflector. I had pressed the send button before I realised and then had to retype it from memory, :-(! -----Original Message----- From: "James Moritz" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu Aug 09 08:34:45 PDT 2001 Subject: Re: LF: ZL DX testing 22 September >Dear Bob, LF Group> >As I think I mentioned a while back, there is a quiet-ish segment in >the LF broadcast band, some hundreds of Hz wide centred on >about 172.0kHz. The sidebands of the adjacent broadcast stations >leak into it if they are carrying high-pitched programme material, but >most of the time during darkness the noise floor seems to be QRN, >at my location at least. This certainly seemed to be the quietest >frequency in the 165 - 190kHz range. > >Are there any strong signals in roughly this part of the spectrum >emanating from the VK/ ZL region that we could try to receive here >in Europe, as CFH and DBF39, etc, have been used over the trans- >atlantic path? This would give some sort of handle on the signal >levels and optimum time of day for a ZL > Eu attempt. I guess this >would be easier to do in the other direction - the Eu LF broadcast >stations are not exactly low-power, and operate continuously, so >should be a relatively easy target for reception in ZL. > >Cheers, Jim Moritz >73 de M0BMU > ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4850 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2001 14:42:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Aug 2001 14:42:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 26693 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2001 14:41:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Aug 2001 14:41:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Uqse-0001x1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2001 15:33:48 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15UqsI-0001ww-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2001 15:33:27 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15Uqrb-0004wX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2001 15:32:43 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15Uqra-0001nc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2001 15:32:42 +0100 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 15:34:45 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: ZL DX testing 22 September X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Bob, LF Group As I think I mentioned a while back, there is a quiet-ish segment in the LF broadcast band, some hundreds of Hz wide centred on about 172.0kHz. The sidebands of the adjacent broadcast stations leak into it if they are carrying high-pitched programme material, but most of the time during darkness the noise floor seems to be QRN, at my location at least. This certainly seemed to be the quietest frequency in the 165 - 190kHz range. Are there any strong signals in roughly this part of the spectrum emanating from the VK/ ZL region that we could try to receive here in Europe, as CFH and DBF39, etc, have been used over the trans- atlantic path? This would give some sort of handle on the signal levels and optimum time of day for a ZL > Eu attempt. I guess this would be easier to do in the other direction - the Eu LF broadcast stations are not exactly low-power, and operate continuously, so should be a relatively easy target for reception in ZL. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28578 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2001 10:27:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Aug 2001 10:27:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 24447 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2001 10:26:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Aug 2001 10:26:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Umut-0008A5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2001 11:19:51 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [204.202.140.199] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Umuo-0008A0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2001 11:19:47 +0100 Received: from gomailjtp01 ([10.212.0.161]) by mta07.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GHS00DM2PYZQ7@mta07.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 9 Aug 2001 03:18:35 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 09 Aug 2001 03:18:36 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Sexton" Subject: Re: LF: ZL DX testing 22 September To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <3216622.997352316673.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Bob, I have just been checking out the part of the band from 181.4 to 184.4 kHz here and my conclusion is that we have no chance of seeing anything in Europe between these frequencies, because of the 2MW French broadcast station, Europe 1 at Saarlouis, on 183.0 kHz. The sidebands extend over at least the whole of this frequency range. John, G4CNN -----Original Message----- From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu Aug 09 00:36:58 PDT 2001 Subject: LF: ZL DX testing 22 September >Hi all,> >The next session of LF DX beaconing from ZL and VK is scheduled for 21 >September (UTC, the "Friday night and Saturday morning" for Europe and >stateside, local time in ZL is some six hours into 22 September at ZL >sunrise!). The date is selected as being the weekend of the equinox. > >Are there any suggestions for optimum frequencies for European listeners? >For "trans Pacific" testing we have used frequencies from 181.4 to 184.4 >kHz. > >I will also apply for a permit to transmit in the 136 and 76 kHz bands from >Quartz Hill ZL6QH, but that may take a while to be approved. So for the >time being DownUnder DX testing needs to be within the band 165 - 190 kHz. > >73, Bob ZL2CA > > ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17526 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2001 07:50:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Aug 2001 07:50:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 25911 invoked from network); 9 Aug 2001 07:50:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Aug 2001 07:50:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15UkRI-0006mT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2001 08:41:08 +0100 Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15UkRG-0006mO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 09 Aug 2001 08:41:07 +0100 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.178.123]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010809073952.NRFZ927934.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Thu, 9 Aug 2001 19:39:52 +1200 Message-ID: <001901c120a6$6ba63840$7bb21bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010709092603.00a31a50@mail.pncl.co.uk> Subject: LF: ZL DX testing 22 September Date: Thu, 9 Aug 2001 19:36:58 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, The next session of LF DX beaconing from ZL and VK is scheduled for 21 September (UTC, the "Friday night and Saturday morning" for Europe and stateside, local time in ZL is some six hours into 22 September at ZL sunrise!). The date is selected as being the weekend of the equinox. Are there any suggestions for optimum frequencies for European listeners? For "trans Pacific" testing we have used frequencies from 181.4 to 184.4 kHz. I will also apply for a permit to transmit in the 136 and 76 kHz bands from Quartz Hill ZL6QH, but that may take a while to be approved. So for the time being DownUnder DX testing needs to be within the band 165 - 190 kHz. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11575 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2001 22:40:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Aug 2001 22:40:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 6750 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2001 22:40:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 8 Aug 2001 22:40:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Ubpi-0001tK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 08 Aug 2001 23:29:46 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Ubph-0001tF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 08 Aug 2001 23:29:45 +0100 Received: from [62.7.111.55] (helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #9) id 15Ubp3-0002ym-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 08 Aug 2001 23:29:05 +0100 Message-ID: <000501c12059$7533ed00$f36e01d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Computer hash reduction Date: Wed, 8 Aug 2001 23:27:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all I have been complaining about increased SMPSU has on 136 recently, relating it my mind to the beginning of school holidays. I have now realised that some of it was self inflicted !! After nearly 3 years on this computer with little in the way of trouble except a locked 90Hz line from the VDU occasionally, the PSU fan stopped about 2 weeks ago. The easy solution was to swap out the whole power supply unit (an old AT format unit) This was quickly completed and an extra block of memory inserted (now 64 Mbytes....well I am an old meany) What I did not realise for some time that the extra drifty lines where the new power supply that now switches on a frequency that puts a hamonic in the top half of the 136 band. This computer is in a different room to the radio gear, but does have an audio connection via an isolating transformer. It is not an original idea but I decided an 'easy' solution might be to fit a filtered IEC socket into the power supply box. A quick look at the spec suggested that a 1 Amp or 3 Amp rated unit would be best as the chokes have a higher inductance in the lower current rated sockets. I decided that although a 1 Amp rated socket should be OK for a 250W supply I would play safe and install a 3Amp unit (I also just conveniently happened to have one in the junk box!!). It is a fairly tight squeeze. The best way of doing it is to extend the earth wire from the stud and release the grommet holding the lead to the power switch, then the soldered connections can be made outside the power supply box, and the socket slid into place and screwed in. I suggest the earth tag is orientated at the bottom to keep the live tags away from the PCB. (I bent the 6mm tag up slightly). When screwed into the metal housing of the socket is very close to comonents on the PCB. I was initially intending to wrap the body in tape but the size of the hole in the box did not allow enought clearance for even a layer of tape. I finally placed a short length of OverHead Projecter foil (Copier/laser printer type which will stand a higher temperature, not the hand draw acetate sheets) between the socket body and the components, trapping the edge in the case top to hold it in place. This was done without removing the PSU from the case, as all the screws holding the lid where accessible. The results are quite pleasing. The clutch of six or seven 50Hz spaced lines, with the strongest at S9 have disapeared and I can just see two or three weak lines ( Received: (qmail 26566 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2001 07:55:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Aug 2001 07:55:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 14191 invoked from network); 8 Aug 2001 07:55:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 8 Aug 2001 07:55:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15UO0I-0002X7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 08 Aug 2001 08:43:46 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from kauha.saunalahti.fi ([195.197.53.227]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15UNzt-0002X2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 08 Aug 2001 08:43:22 +0100 Received: from pmk2 (MMMDCXVIII.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.164.18]) by kauha.saunalahti.fi (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id f787gXC28662 for ; Wed, 8 Aug 2001 10:42:33 +0300 (EEST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Paul Keinanen" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Harmonic sampling (Was: Decimation) Date: Wed, 08 Aug 2001 10:45:31 +0300 Message-ID: References: <001201c11de7$6051a9a0$916c97d4@oemcomputer> In-reply-to: <001201c11de7$6051a9a0$916c97d4@oemcomputer> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On Sun, 5 Aug 2001 22:46:14 +0300, "Johan Bodin" wrote: I found an interesting tutorial article about undersampling and ADC parameters at http://archives.e-insite.net/archives/ednmag/reg/1995/080395/16df1.htm Since the article is from 1995, the list of available components is not up to date. On the EDN site, there are also other related articles, if you enter "undersampling" into the search functionality. >Fs=6kHz seems like a good choice. The selected Fs harmonic should be just outside >the band of interest (lowest acceptable beat note) and the preselector BW (-many dB!) >must be less than Fs/2. Pse correct me if I'm wrong. This is true as this Fs/2 bandwidth is exactly at nFs .. (n+0.5)Fs or at (n+0.5)Fs .. (n+1)Fs. At any other frequency bands, the filter should be narrower in order to avoid the nFs and (n+0.5)Fs frequencies. By the way, standard audio ADCs preceded by a sample and hold circuit might also be usable. When running at 48 kHz Fs, the multiples would be at 96 and 144 kHz, thus the 135.7 .. 137.8 kHz band would be converted to 8.3 .. 6.2 kHz (inverted spectrum). With such high sampling rate, the front end filtering could be done directly at signal frequency using ordinary LC filters. The most problematic alias is 150.2 .. 152.3 kHz, which would require a deep notch. The other close alias is at 102.2 .. 104.3 kHz, but apparently this would be sufficiently attenuated by the stop band of any bandpass filter. The other advantage of using standard audio ADCs producing SPDIF is that sound cards with SPDIF inputs could be used to input the digital signal into PC for further processing. The nasty thing about these converters is that they usually require a clock frequency of 64Fs .. 256Fs, which would be quite problematic to generate at very high precision, if 48 kHz sampling rate is used. The converter might be clocked to run at 50 kHz, simplifying the reference frequency generation, but the PC sound card might not lock on to the 50 kHz sample rate. Paul OH3LWR From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10537 invoked from network); 7 Aug 2001 06:35:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Aug 2001 06:35:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 929 invoked from network); 7 Aug 2001 06:35:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 7 Aug 2001 06:35:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15U0Gc-0005bm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 07 Aug 2001 07:23:02 +0100 Received: from cmailg2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.172]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15U0Ga-0005bM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 07 Aug 2001 07:23:00 +0100 Received: from modem-2.belegaer.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.137.2] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15U0Fw-0001gQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 07 Aug 2001 07:22:20 +0100 Message-ID: <000e01c11f09$8d4a2d60$0289883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: VA3LK seen in UK Date: Tue, 7 Aug 2001 07:23:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Larrys signal appeared at about 0300 ,peaked briefly to "O" at 0400 and faded out by 0530UTC. Nice to see you again Larry ,guess condx were far from good last night.73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7562 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 17:42:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 17:42:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 4110 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 17:42:32 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 17:42:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ToKq-0007AY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 18:38:36 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail-4.tiscalinet.it ([195.130.225.150] helo=mail.tiscalinet.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ToKp-000738-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 18:38:35 +0100 Received: from lyra.tiscalinet.it (62.11.62.176) by mail.tiscalinet.it (5.5.031) id 3B6536B100140897 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 19:37:25 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010806193610.00a9f100@pop.tiscalinet.it> X-Sender: cla.po@pop.tiscalinet.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 19:38:27 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Claudio Pozzi" Subject: Re: LF: Re 136KHz test In-reply-to: <1085359.997034448688.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp01 > MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello John, TNX to you and to all lowfers fro the reports. Also on my QTH there was strong noise. To day I measured the antenna resistance, it is 60 ohms, in April it was about 50 ohms. Now I know because the antenna current is decreased in those days. I will tray to adjust the transmitter output impedance and try again with more power out next week end. My transmission mode is slow cw, 3 seconds/dot. My working conditions in my WEB site, www.qsl.net/ik2pii. 73 de Claudio At 20.00 05/08/2001, you wrote: >Hi Claudio, > >I too looked for your signal on Saturday morning but nothing seen only >Loran. Were you sending normal speed CW or Slow Morse? At this time of the >year with high levels of QRN only Slow Morse is likely to work at this >distance. > >Saw Laurie QRSS a couple of times (very strong signal OOO+++) and called >him, but I guess he didn't hear/see me. > >73, John, G4CNN > > >___________________________________________________ >GO.com Mail >Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Claudio Pozzi http://www.qsl.net/ik2pii happy Linux user E-Mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19847 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 17:34:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 17:34:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 24246 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 17:34:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 17:34:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ToBj-00072L-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 18:29:11 +0100 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ToBh-00072G-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 18:29:10 +0100 Received: from [62.7.95.43] (helo=default) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #9) id 15To99-0005uW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 18:27:13 +0100 Message-ID: <000701c11e9c$dea56fc0$2b5f073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: re VA3LK and conditions Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 17:57:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Brian Congratulations on grabbing Larry the first night. I can't tell accurately what it was like last night from the SXV plot, but it looks about 'normal'. Whilst the CME arrived on the 5th it could well be maybe 3 or 4 days later before any effect is felt in the LF radio sense. Certainly the 0300-0400z slot is usually a good one for the transatlantic path W<>E. I'm glad the 100.030kHz 100Hz BW filter has proved useful. I still have some faulty ones if anyone wants to play (the metal can needs desoldering with a blowtorch to get at the works) I have also come across a small simple PCB by DJ8ES that has a Analogue Devices log converter ( AD8307..... 90dB range 500MHz BW !!) and a LT serial i/f (I2C I think) A/D in VHF Comms. Not too useful if you want to use the soundcard but handy for straight logging via the IF output. I dare say this could be connected up on veroboard. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11720 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 15:31:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 15:31:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 13289 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 15:31:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 15:31:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Tlmf-0005cq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 15:55:09 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Tlmc-0005cl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 15:55:06 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15Tllw-0000Nx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 15:54:24 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15Tllv-0004lB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 15:54:24 +0100 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 15:56:23 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: RA1792 IF out X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Brian, LF group, My RA1792 also has a 100kHz IF output; it is generated by a module that sits in the place intended for the ISB option. I have no documentation for this module - but I had a peek inside, and it appears to contain a mixer, LC filters, and a PLL conversion oscillator locked to the main reference oscillator, which mixes down the normal 455kHz output. I suppose it is intended to adapt the RA1792 to work with modems intended originally for receivers with 100kHz IFs like the RA17. I don't think it does anything special to the signal apart from shifting it in frequency. I don't suppose it would be a problem to disconnect it and use the original 455kHz output instead. I have not had any problems with the RA1792 jumping from one state to another - but I did have a similar problem with some Marconi - Adret signal generators, which also appeared to be caused by the back-up batteries going flat; the less often they were used, the more often they would reset themselves at apparently random intervals when they were switched on. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18611 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 14:46:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 14:46:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 12538 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 14:46:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 14:46:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15TlJ9-0005Dv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 15:24:39 +0100 Received: from tomts14.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.35] helo=tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15TlJ6-0005Dq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 15:24:36 +0100 Received: from server1 ([216.209.138.140]) by tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010806142325.GBFJ24413.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:23:25 -0400 Message-ID: <002f01c11e82$6cd1e000$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C575@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> <3.0.5.32.20010806072422.008d2490@pop3.esoterica.pt> Subject: LF: CT1DRP hears VA3LK, August 6th Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:16:42 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Brian: > Your signal appeared at about 0315 and ran till 0515 utc. Not as good > as last time but just about recognisable. The data logger is on auto and > set to run till 1000 utc so will put up the picture and hopefully a graph > on my web site later. Wow! It seems so easy now doesn't it! I bet after the first time I make it to ZL and VK it will be easier the second and third times etc. The picture looks great. Brian, Thank You - it has been a dry summer for LF here, only VE7SL pops up with reports lately. He is certainly a difficult path, ~3300 kms + over land. You have made my day.... Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4489 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 13:28:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 13:28:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 20622 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 13:28:24 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 13:28:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15TkDf-0004d0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 14:14:55 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rhun.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.26]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15TkDb-0004cv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 14:14:51 +0100 Received: from srv17slx.esoterica.pt (srv17slx.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.47]) by rhun.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f76DEA808788 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 14:14:10 +0100 (WEST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from slave2 (por232.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.232]) by srv17slx.esoterica.pt (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA29291 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 14:14:09 +0100 (WET DST) Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010806131316.007be3c0@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 13:13:16 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: RE: RA1792 In-reply-to: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C57D@PDW-MAIL-R1> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thank you to Alan, and to Andy and to Tracey and yes I would be interested in the IEEE488 interface. For those of you wondering, I was trying to cascade the CW filter of my TS850 after the front end of the RA1792. The intention was do a narrow search and record as well as recording the full band, the other output of the aerial splitter was already occupied. Q-Fiver with a BC something or other I think it was called, first saw it used in the QTH of Ken Alford, G2DX. Someone said that the RA1792 is easy to work on, it is, I do not think I have ever seen another equipment as easy to access. Yes the computer, module A6 is on the right and has a brand new RS battery. I removed the module and cleaned all the sliding contacts at the suggestion of the supplier and also the pcb pads which sit on the pillars in the casting and since reassembling there has been no more jumping but it is only five days and much too early to rejoice. When I found nothing coming out of J2 at 455 I thought the BNC must be there for some reason and persisted and eventually identified DCF39 which confirmed the 100KHz IF with the 2.2KHz BFO offset I was using. I managed to "get" the system working and in fact recorded Larry on Argo but at 30 sec dots because I hadn't had time to calibrate the frequency. The recording on SpecLab was better and it is now on my web site after a bit of a struggle with HTML. I hope to have better luck with Argo tonight provided last night's propagation wasn't a freak product of the CME and M class flares. With thanks, Brian At 09:30 06/08/01 +0100, you wrote: > >All the RA1792s I have seen (admittedly all of the same vintage, >manufactured within a couple of years of 1981) use a 455kHz 2nd IF. But >since they also only have 10Hz steps there is obviously a later version, so >it is possible later models could have a 100kHz output. > >As for the random parameters junmping... The Rx uses battery backed up RAM >for non volatile parameter storage, and the NiCd battery will eventually >give up, so you could try replacing this - they are cheap enough to just >try. On the receivers I have seen, this it is mounted on a PCB on the >right hand side of the chassis when you open up the top of the unit. But I >suppose that over the years things could have changed and it could be on the >more difficult to get at front panel PCB. > >Andy G4JNT 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3952 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 09:58:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 09:58:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 4759 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 09:58:30 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 09:58:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Tgzg-0002ct-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 10:48:16 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15TgzS-0002cm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 10:48:02 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA650466 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 11:47:21 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010806104654.2dc72e1e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 10:46:54 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: SV: Re: SV: LF Receivers In-reply-to: <001801c11a5f$ed6ddce0$9a2597d4@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Christer, what about a ceramic resonator for 3.58MHz ? I used that for a stable 80m VXO some years ago (could pull it 80kHz !). Stability is a bit less than a xtal, but still many times better than a free running VFO. 73, Rik ON7YD At 10:59 1/08/01 +0300, you wrote: >John, > >>3579.545 kHz color burst crystal > >You are right! Thanks for the tip. > >I don't know if it is "easily pullable" though... I remember trying a "32 pF >parallel 3579 rock" in series resonant mode but I did not get lower than >about 3579.3 kHz. The oscillator was a two transistor thing with the xtal >connected between the emitters (xtal sees low Z = preserve the Q). > >Perhaps it will work with some additional inductance in series with the >xtal but the Q will suffer I guess... > >Maybe a *very* low quality xtal will do the trick (lower equivalent L/C = lower Q)? > >Do you have any circuit suggestion for a suitable "rock bender"? > >73 >Johan SM6LKM > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28137 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 09:40:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 09:40:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 25159 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 09:40:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 09:40:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15TgjY-0002U6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 10:31:36 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [195.102.249.201] (helo=mserv1a.vianw.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15TgjV-0002U1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 10:31:33 +0100 Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.vianw.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #5) id 15Tgiq-0006SA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 10:30:52 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v4.0.0.R) for ; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 10:15:17 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 10:15:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: 73k Message-ID: <3B6E6E34.16818.7DB67C@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Amazingly, the Rugby RTTY was still off on Saturday. I beaconed in QRSS on 71.810kHz all morning. No-one else heard. This winter will the last ever for this band, so I would encourage as many people as possible to become active, even if only on receive. I will be off the air for a couple of weeks as the shack has to be completely dismantled for decorating - yes I know no-one decorates their shack, but mine is in the main living room of the house for reasons too complicated to explain here. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8436 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 09:03:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 09:03:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 15738 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 09:03:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 09:03:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Tg55-00022B-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 09:49:47 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Tg4d-000226-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 09:49:20 +0100 Received: from [62.7.61.48] (helo=dave) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #9) id 15Tg3y-0007kU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 09:48:39 +0100 Message-ID: <002001c11e54$9b97fd80$303d073e@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" References: <912519.997034682641.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp01> Subject: LF: Re: Re: MM0ALM Date: Mon, 6 Aug 2001 09:47:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John Sexton wrote: >Listening in between other activities, heard Dave tuning up today Sunday afternoon and later sending CQ but seemingly only >briefly. Heard Steve GW4ALG call him, but assume no reply since heard nothing more. >Quite a good signal from Dave considering conditions and distance. I also was listening to Dave - s9+10 while he was testing and for the initial few seconds of his CQ call. Then he went very weak in mid sentence. I heard him testing afterwards for a little while, but much much weaker. I suspect something went phutt! Cheers Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18253 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 08:39:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 08:39:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 27163 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 08:38:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 08:38:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15TfpD-0001th-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 09:33:23 +0100 Received: from relay.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.49]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Tfp9-0001tc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 09:33:20 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 21427 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 09:32:39 +0100 Received: from trtnmail.dera.gov.uk (146.80.9.56) by relay.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 09:32:39 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 11444 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 09:34:46 +0100 Received: (ofmipd 192.5.29.90); 6 Aug 2001 08:34:24 -0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id JAA24649; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 09:38:40 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 31184 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 09:23:48 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 09:23:48 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id JAA07836; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 09:11:00 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma007829; Mon, 6 Aug 01 09:10:46 GMT Received: from mailex.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with SMTP id for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 09:32:32 +0100 Received: (qmail 1000 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 08:20:40 +0100 Date: 6 Aug 2001 09:30:47 +0100 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C57D@PDW-MAIL-R1> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-5Received: from softdnserror (HELO cchecker.dstl.gov.uk) (192.168.248.52) by mailex.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 07:20:40 -0000 X-4Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by cchecker.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.2) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:20:27 +0100 X-3Received: by FRN-MAIL-R3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)id ; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 09:30:51 +0100 Subject: LF: RE: RA1792 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: All the RA1792s I have seen (admittedly all of the same vintage, manufactured within a couple of years of 1981) use a 455kHz 2nd IF. But since they also only have 10Hz steps there is obviously a later version, so it is possible later models could have a 100kHz output. As for the random parameters junmping... The Rx uses battery backed up RAM for non volatile parameter storage, and the NiCd battery will eventually give up, so you could try replacing this - they are cheap enough to just try. On the receivers I have seen, this it is mounted on a PCB on the right hand side of the chassis when you open up the top of the unit. But I suppose that over the years things could have changed and it could be on the more difficult to get at front panel PCB. Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Rogerson [mailto:brian@esoterica.pt] > Sent: 2001-08-06 08:45 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: RA1792 > > > To All, > > The manual I eventually had to buy for the RA1792 and supposedly for > this particular model shows that the main IF output (J2) is on 455KHz. > It seems to be on 100KHz. Can anybody throw any light on the subject? > > I didn't receive any replies on the random jumping of parameters so I > have to assume that this is not a widespread problem with a routine > solution. > > With thanks in advance, 73, Brian > 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W > http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29417 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 08:11:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 08:11:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 24584 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 08:11:17 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 08:11:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Tf5Q-0001T8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 08:46:04 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rhun.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.26]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Tf5M-0001T3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 08:46:00 +0100 Received: from srv17slx.esoterica.pt (srv17slx.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.47]) by rhun.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f767jJh20746 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:45:19 +0100 (WEST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from slave2 (por082.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.82]) by srv17slx.esoterica.pt (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA16972 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:45:18 +0100 (WET DST) Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010806074512.008cd730@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 07:45:12 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: LF: RA1792 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To All, The manual I eventually had to buy for the RA1792 and supposedly for this particular model shows that the main IF output (J2) is on 455KHz. It seems to be on 100KHz. Can anybody throw any light on the subject? I didn't receive any replies on the random jumping of parameters so I have to assume that this is not a widespread problem with a routine solution. With thanks in advance, 73, Brian 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18779 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 07:49:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 07:49:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 2086 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 07:49:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 07:49:18 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Telq-0001Kl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 08:25:50 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from dargolad.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.27]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Telp-0001Kg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 08:25:49 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from srv17slx.esoterica.pt (srv17slx.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.47]) by dargolad.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f767P6809568 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:25:06 +0100 (WEST) Received: from slave2 (por199.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.199]) by srv17slx.esoterica.pt (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA10131 for ; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 08:25:05 +0100 (WET DST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010806072422.008d2490@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 07:24:22 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: 2001/2002 season tests start tonight In-reply-to: <002201c11d47$b43b6740$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C575@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Larry, Your signal appeared at about 0315 and ran till 0515 utc. Not as good as last time but just about recognisable. The data logger is on auto and set to run till 1000 utc so will put up the picture and hopefully a graph on my web site later. 73, Brian At 20:43 04/08/01 -0400, you wrote: >Greetings All: > > As of today I have started transmitting during all gray and dark hours at >this QTH. As of today the new transmit window is 01 utc to 10 utc, on >137.7894 Khz with 90 second dits, and 180 second dashes. > >I have been able to improve the tuning a small amount but the system is >basically as per last season. The frequency accuracy has been tested >repeatedly and varries a bit more than 20 milliHz, and this seems related >to building temperature fluctuations. > >The station here is now heard regularly on this side of the pacific rim, >into the high arctic and throughout the United States including Alaska, but >so far not Hawaii. > >On the Atlantic side, ship born reception occurs regularly in the south >Carribean and a single report has been received from the Azores. > >WOLF transmissions are available. > >Larry >VA3LK 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11033 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 06:18:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 06:18:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 27006 invoked from network); 6 Aug 2001 06:17:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Aug 2001 06:17:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15TdV9-0000YH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 07:04:31 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.88]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15TdV8-0000YB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 06 Aug 2001 07:04:31 +0100 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15TdUT-0006Sa-0U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 6 Aug 2001 07:03:50 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B6E34BA.79B83FBF@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 06 Aug 2001 07:10:02 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Weekend Report, 04/05-08-2001 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All Lots of QRN at my QTH in Chepstow, but here is what I worked: Saturday, 4th August -------------------- 06:58 G0AKY 579 sent, 579 received 07:50 G4CNN 559, 599 08:25 PA0SE 569, 459 09:15 GW4HXO 599, 579 Also, I heard: 06:42 DJ7RD 439 08:57 F6BWO 559 Sunday, 5th August ------------------ 07:05 G3YMC 559, 579 08:00 G3OLB 599, 599 08:40 GW4HXO 599, 579 Also, I heard: 08:53 PA0SE 559 08:59 G3SDQ 559 - testing 09:21 G3SDQ 559 - testing 09:41 G3SDQ 559 - testing 10:42 G3SDQ 559 - testing 10:43 M0BMU 599 - calling G3SDQ, but no reply 15:20 MM0ALM 599 - testing As already reported by John, I did try calling Dave MM0ALM, but his S9+ signal took a sudden dive into the QRN and I lost him after that. I also called G3SDQ (136.55) several times during the day with no success. Later in the evening, I had a nice QRP QSO with G8RW on 3.560 MHz. Bob's QRM problem on 136 kHz continues - apparently, NTL still refuses to investigate the matter. Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20276 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2001 20:51:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Aug 2001 20:51:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 28896 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2001 20:51:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Aug 2001 20:51:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15TUnc-00044O-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 05 Aug 2001 21:47:00 +0100 Received: from fep01.swip.net ([130.244.199.129] helo=fep01-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15TUnb-00044J-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 05 Aug 2001 21:46:59 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.108.145]) by fep01-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20010805204618.FWQE18391.fep01-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 22:46:18 +0200 Message-ID: <001201c11de7$6051a9a0$916c97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: SV: LF: Harmonic sampling (Was: Decimation) Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 22:46:14 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Paul, >An undersampling system needs some kind of sample & hold circuit. IIRC from >digital audio, the aperture time should be less than T/10 (T=sampling >period) in order to keep the high frequency rolloff below 1 dB. Yes, the figures sounds reasonable. >So if we assume a hypothetical 300 kHz sampling rate (for 0 .. 140 kHz BW), >the aquisition time should be less than 300 ns, which should not be too hard to >implement:-). Since the hold time is about 170 us (6 kHz), we are talking >about 1:500 aquisition/hold time ratios, which can be a problem due to hold >time leakage. Yes, the 1:500 ratio could turn the S/H "droop rate" into a problem. I was thinking about using a cheap 74HC4066 or similar analog switch as sampling gate but after giving it a second thought I realised that it is probably out of the question due to the high "charge injection" from the control pin to the switch i/o pins. The hold cap' has to be quite small in order to meet the acquisition time requirement so the control pulse leakage will probably upset things... Assuming S/H driver source resistance + switch R-on = 50 ohms, C has to be about 10nF for -3dB at 300kHz but... At an aquisition/hold time ratio of 1:500, C must be <= 20pF. Among other things, this calls for a buffer amplifier having almost zero bias current :~) Do you have any suggestion for a hombrew S/H circuit? Diode ring gate? Ready made S/H chip? I have no experience of building fast S/H circuits. >By adding dithering noise, low and medium frequency tones could be reproduced >well below -100 dB, when the teoretical limit for a 16 bit system would be -96 dB. Yes, isn't it funny...The system performance can sometimes be improved by ADDING noise! The dithering noise spectrum has to be outside the wanted passband of course. >If some super-selective front end is used (say 250 Hz bandwidth) in the LF >receiver, the digital signal may contain signal related quantisation noise, >thus some form of dither noise may be required. However, if the analog >bandwidth is larger, I guess that the band noise may be used as dither noise. Yes. Steve VK2ZTO did some extreme narrowband experiments on longwave using a 1-bit ADC. I think it was a simple comparator hooked on the RX audio output. Dithered by natural band noise, the signal appeared to have many bits of resolution after the decimation. Fs=6kHz seems like a good choice. The selected Fs harmonic should be just outside the band of interest (lowest acceptable beat note) and the preselector BW (-many dB!) must be less than Fs/2. Pse correct me if I'm wrong. >>From this description, it appears as if this device is actually a 13 bit >flash ADC and the three extra bits are generated by the Fs/8 downsampling >:-). Right. It's not a true 16-bit ADC. It is some kind of combination of a sigma-delta with 5-bit flash & 5-bit feedback and a 12-bit pipelined ADC. Some data: - Fs <= 20MHz - 1 MHz signal BW - SNR 89 dB - THD -98dB - SFDR 100dB - Equiv. input noise 0.6 LSB - Stopband attenuation 85 dB Unfortunately, my preliminary data sheet doesn't tell the ENOB (effective number of bits). I actually have two of these chips and a HSP50016 DDC too. I hope that I someday will find some time to play with them... Anyway, the harmonic sampling idea is *very* appealing. 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26053 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2001 19:19:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Aug 2001 19:19:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 28702 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2001 19:19:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Aug 2001 19:19:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15TTIS-0003Fw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 05 Aug 2001 20:10:44 +0100 Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15TTIR-0003Fr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 05 Aug 2001 20:10:43 +0100 Received: from modem-106.arda.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.122.106] helo=g3aqc) by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15TTHn-0007js-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 05 Aug 2001 20:10:03 +0100 Message-ID: <001601c11de2$76585780$6a7a883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. 136 KHz test Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 20:11:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi John,
There was a very strong signal above me but it was quite close to a Loran line from eastern France on 137.746 which my Ant. does not null out. If this was you sorry for missing you. Will try harder next time,but thanks for the call. 73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23093 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2001 19:02:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Aug 2001 19:02:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 16716 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2001 19:02:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Aug 2001 19:02:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15TT3s-00035z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 05 Aug 2001 19:55:40 +0100 Received: from postfix2-2.free.fr ([213.228.0.140] ident=postfix) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15TT3r-00035u-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 05 Aug 2001 19:55:39 +0100 Received: from f5maf (toulouse-2-a7-48-67.dial.proxad.net [212.27.48.67]) by postfix2-2.free.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 1C65E6B841 for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 20:54:55 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000501c11de0$81cc1540$43301bd4@f5maf> From: "f5maf" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002101c11db2$90b8d120$cb311bd4@f5maf> <3B6D5032.96B93595@alg.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: LF: Marconi Receiver Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 20:57:37 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: thank you Steve marc ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Rawlings To: Sent: Sunday, August 05, 2001 3:54 PM Subject: Re: LF: Marconi Receiver > Marc F5MAF wrote: > > > Hi All > > I'm looking for informations, shemas > > of : > > 2207G made by Marconi's Wirless Telegraph. > > 15 KHz 28 MHz receiver. > > LSB, USB with 500 Hz filter. > > Tubes : ECH 81, 6AQ5,.... > > Hi Marc, if it is similar to a 'Atalanta 2207 C Marconi', see: > http://www.audion.net/manua.htm > > Regards to all, > Steve GW4ALG > > --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.256 / Virus Database: 129 - Release Date: 31/05/01 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26512 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2001 18:09:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Aug 2001 18:09:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 13755 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2001 18:09:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Aug 2001 18:09:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15TSHL-0002Zq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 05 Aug 2001 19:05:31 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [204.202.140.199] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15TSHK-0002Zl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 05 Aug 2001 19:05:30 +0100 Received: from gomailjtp01 ([10.212.0.161]) by mta07.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GHL000JFWVSPO@mta07.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 11:04:40 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 11:04:39 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Sexton" Subject: LF: Re: MM0ALM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <912519.997034682641.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Listening in between other activities, heard Dave tuning up today Sunday afternoon and later sending CQ but seemingly only briefly. Heard Steve GW4ALG call him, but assume no reply since heard nothing more. Quite a good signal from Dave considering conditions and distance. 73 John, G4CNN ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26388 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2001 18:06:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Aug 2001 18:06:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 11473 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2001 18:06:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Aug 2001 18:06:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15TSE6-0002Zg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 05 Aug 2001 19:02:10 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [204.202.140.198] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15TSE5-0002Zb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 05 Aug 2001 19:02:09 +0100 Received: from gomailjtp01 ([10.212.0.161]) by mta06.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GHL00IJ6WPA60@mta06.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 11:00:46 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 11:00:48 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Sexton" Subject: Re: LF: Re 136KHz test To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <1085359.997034448688.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Claudio, I too looked for your signal on Saturday morning but nothing seen only Loran. Were you sending normal speed CW or Slow Morse? At this time of the year with high levels of QRN only Slow Morse is likely to work at this distance. Saw Laurie QRSS a couple of times (very strong signal OOO+++) and called him, but I guess he didn't hear/see me. 73, John, G4CNN ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29559 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2001 17:08:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Aug 2001 17:08:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 4459 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2001 17:08:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Aug 2001 17:08:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15TRIg-00022l-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 05 Aug 2001 18:02:50 +0100 Received: from cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.174]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15TRIf-00022g-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 05 Aug 2001 18:02:49 +0100 Received: from modem-81.longnose-hawk.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.38.81] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15TRI0-00012J-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 05 Aug 2001 18:02:09 +0100 Message-ID: <001601c11dd0$97be03a0$5126893e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re 136KHz test Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 18:02:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi Claudio,
Looked on your frequency Sat/Sun. Nothing seen please keep trying.  73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14851 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2001 13:58:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Aug 2001 13:58:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 6583 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2001 13:57:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Aug 2001 13:57:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15TOHX-0000LW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 05 Aug 2001 14:49:27 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15TOHX-0000LR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 05 Aug 2001 14:49:27 +0100 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15TOGs-000GjR-0Y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 14:48:46 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B6D5032.96B93595@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 05 Aug 2001 14:54:58 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Marconi Receiver References: <002101c11db2$90b8d120$cb311bd4@f5maf> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Marc F5MAF wrote: > Hi All > I'm looking for informations, shemas > of : > 2207G made by Marconi's Wirless Telegraph. > 15 KHz 28 MHz receiver. > LSB, USB with 500 Hz filter. > Tubes : ECH 81, 6AQ5,.... Hi Marc, if it is similar to a 'Atalanta 2207 C Marconi', see: http://www.audion.net/manua.htm Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7837 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2001 13:36:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Aug 2001 13:36:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 5016 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2001 13:35:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Aug 2001 13:35:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15TNvd-0000DA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 05 Aug 2001 14:26:49 +0100 Received: from postfix1-2.free.fr ([213.228.0.130]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15TNvc-0000Co-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 05 Aug 2001 14:26:48 +0100 Received: from f5maf (toulouse-2-a7-49-203.dial.proxad.net [212.27.49.203]) by postfix1-2.free.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id B1F741028B5 for ; Sun, 5 Aug 2001 15:26:04 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002101c11db2$90b8d120$cb311bd4@f5maf> From: "f5maf" To: "VLF Group" Subject: LF: Marconi Receiver Date: Sun, 5 Aug 2001 15:28:49 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------020907000305050109070805" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020907000305050109070805 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi All I'm looking for informations, shemas of : 2207G made by Marconi's Wirless Telegraph. 15 KHz à 28 MHz receiver. LSB, USB with 500 Hz filter. Tubes : ECH 81, 6AQ5,.... 73 Marc F5MAF --- Outgoing mail is certified Virus Free. Checked by AVG anti-virus system (http://www.grisoft.com). Version: 6.0.256 / Virus Database: 129 - Release Date: 31/05/01 --------------020907000305050109070805 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="recepteur2.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="recepteur2.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAUABQAAD/2wBDACYaHSEdGCYhHyErKCYtOV8+OTQ0OXVTWEVfinmR j4h5hYOYq9u6mKLPpIOFvv/Bz+Lp9fj1lLf////u/9vw9ez/2wBDASgrKzkyOXA+PnDsnYWd 7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Oz/wAAR CACdAOIDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA AgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkK FhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWG h4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl 5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEAAwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREA AgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSExBhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYk NOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElKU1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOE 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invoked from network); 5 Aug 2001 01:03:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Aug 2001 01:03:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 2783 invoked from network); 5 Aug 2001 01:03:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Aug 2001 01:03:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15TCBa-0002DA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 05 Aug 2001 01:54:30 +0100 Received: from tomts6.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.26] helo=tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15TCBZ-0002D5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 05 Aug 2001 01:54:29 +0100 Received: from server1 ([216.209.138.69]) by tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010805005028.IKZJ20780.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 20:50:28 -0400 Message-ID: <002201c11d47$b43b6740$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C575@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> Subject: LF: 2001/2002 season tests start tonight Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 20:43:48 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings All: As of today I have started transmitting during all gray and dark hours at this QTH. As of today the new transmit window is 01 utc to 10 utc, on 137.7894 Khz with 90 second dits, and 180 second dashes. I have been able to improve the tuning a small amount but the system is basically as per last season. The frequency accuracy has been tested repeatedly and varries a bit more than 20 milliHz, and this seems related to building temperature fluctuations. The station here is now heard regularly on this side of the pacific rim, into the high arctic and throughout the United States including Alaska, but so far not Hawaii. On the Atlantic side, ship born reception occurs regularly in the south Carribean and a single report has been received from the Azores. WOLF transmissions are available. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11804 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2001 20:24:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Aug 2001 20:24:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 12692 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2001 20:23:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 4 Aug 2001 20:23:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15T7o3-0008Fn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 04 Aug 2001 21:13:55 +0100 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15T7o3-0008Fi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 04 Aug 2001 21:13:55 +0100 Received: from [213.123.29.95] (helo=dave) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #9) id 15T7nH-0007kd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 04 Aug 2001 21:13:09 +0100 Message-ID: <000001c11d21$e314c500$5f1d7bd5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000301c11909$03108960$5f4001d5@default> <3B6AF458.D9781B7F@alg.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: LF: Alternative LCR meter. Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 18:58:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Steve Rawlings wrote: >Alan G3NYK wrote: >> I spotted an ad buried in the back of Radcom by Chevet Supplies Ltd at >> Blackpool for a TENMA LCR meter [. . . . .] good value at 44 including >> vat and UK carriage. >Following Alan's comments, I decided to buy one too! >I've only just unpacked it, but initial results with the Tenma >Model 72-6634 are encouraging. I just happened to spot in today's special offer sheet from CPC (01772 654455) that they have this Tenma LCR meter on sale at UKP28.32 plus vat and carriage (free to account holders over 30pounds). Perhaps 'special offer' is misleading as their current catalogue lists it at 27.02. They also have some similar meters in their catalogue, the Tenma is the cheapest of them, and they range up to an Avo one at UKP227. All these meters have a common feature - they are not optimised for low value inductance and capacitance, even the Avo has 1nF and 1mH as its bottom full scale range. The Almost All Digital Electronics LC meter (http://www.aade.com/) is more custom designed to measuring the sort of values we are interested. It has a maximum resolution of 0.01pF and 1nH which it displays quite happily when you null out the strays! Perhaps the accuracy down that low is a bit questionable though.... 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15158 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2001 17:28:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Aug 2001 17:28:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 13821 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2001 17:27:58 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 4 Aug 2001 17:27:58 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15T58k-0006iq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 04 Aug 2001 18:23:06 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail-4.tiscalinet.it ([195.130.225.150] helo=mail.tiscalinet.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15T58j-0006ij-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 04 Aug 2001 18:23:05 +0100 Received: from lyra.tiscalinet.it (62.10.86.101) by mail.tiscalinet.it (5.5.031) id 3B6536B100103713 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 19:21:52 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010804191714.00a8a470@pop.tiscalinet.it> X-Sender: cla.po@pop.tiscalinet.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 19:23:15 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Claudio Pozzi" Subject: LF: 136 kHz test MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: HI lowfers, my CQ was on the air this morning from 08.00 to 10.00 UTC. Very bed WX, strong rain, the antenna and the loading coil where completly wetted, no chances to measure antenna current. Also a lot of statics from storm; no answer seen between 137.6 to 137.8 kHz. I should try again to morrow morning, same QTR and QRG 137.710 kHz. HRD you soon, lowfers. 73 de Claudio ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Claudio Pozzi http://www.qsl.net/ik2pii happy Linux user E-Mail: ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16434 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2001 17:10:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Aug 2001 17:10:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 29214 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2001 17:10:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Aug 2001 17:10:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15T4oQ-0006aN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 04 Aug 2001 18:02:06 +0100 Received: from mail.ifx.com.br ([200.201.133.66] helo=audi.ifx.com.br) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15T4oP-0006aI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 04 Aug 2001 18:02:05 +0100 Received: (qmail 27985 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2001 16:59:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO PIII800) (200.201.143.177) by mail.ifxbrasil.com.br with SMTP; 4 Aug 2001 16:59:56 -0000 Message-ID: <008601c11d07$16f1b380$b18fc9c8@PIII800> From: "PY3CRX PY2PLL" To: "VLF" References: <000f01c11c42$add94080$de6274d5@w8k3f0> <3B6BF2E8.F5D8C21B@usa.net> Subject: LF: Re: Re: CFA Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 13:57:30 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I´ve been reading about CFA on Antennex since 1999 and the controversy still there. Most of the experimenters that published some design abandoned the projects. We can feel this because the CFA´s related articles disappeared there. There was several projects, for 160m, 80, 40m, etc but results was marginal. Mr. Kabbary, one of the developers, never explained in details the magic touch to make this antenna works as pointing vector synthethizer. Every broadcaster that hire Kabbary´s company to install CFAs abandoned the barrel somewhere on it´s warehouses (Germany, San Remo radio, Australia). Here in Brazil, Eng. Damiani brought one for a BC station that´s 45Km from my house. Last reports says that they halt the project for a while, waiting for Mr. Kabbary visit, accomplished by his "magic touch". Still a controversy antenna anyway, with it´s looog wire feeders (radiators?). The NEC simulations shows that there´s a short monopole. Only this. Australia installation suggest that the building structure acted as part of the radiating structure ... Other more controlled prototyping showed the same inefficiency ... Anyway ... CFA didn´t show yet it´s real value or - at least - as a pointing vector synthethizer. 73 Marcus, PY3CRX/PY2PLL GG66rf http://py.qsl.br From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 504 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2001 13:12:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Aug 2001 13:12:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 5520 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2001 13:12:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 4 Aug 2001 13:12:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15T199-0004Ua-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 04 Aug 2001 14:07:15 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06lmsgate-2.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15T198-0004UV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 04 Aug 2001 14:07:14 +0100 Received: from d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.147]) by d06lmsgate-2.uk.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id NAA141714 for ; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 13:49:20 +0100 Received: from usa.net (ss5.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.70]) by d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v4.97) with ESMTP id f74D61k74930 for ; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 14:06:02 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B6BF2E8.F5D8C21B@usa.net> Date: Sat, 04 Aug 2001 15:04:40 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: CFA References: <000f01c11c42$add94080$de6274d5@w8k3f0> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dick Rollema wrote: > RadCom of August 2001 features the attached items on the CFA. 73, Dick, PA0SE Any published results of the tests in Shifnal ? 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20249 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2001 12:34:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Aug 2001 12:34:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 10536 invoked from network); 4 Aug 2001 12:34:16 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 4 Aug 2001 12:34:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15T0UN-0004Ct-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 04 Aug 2001 13:25:07 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from postitoimisto.saunalahti.fi ([195.197.53.227] helo=kauha.saunalahti.fi) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15T0UM-0004Co-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 04 Aug 2001 13:25:06 +0100 Received: from lizard (DXX.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.74.4.220]) by kauha.saunalahti.fi (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id f74COfC08697 for ; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 15:24:41 +0300 (EEST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 15:24:41 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <200108041224.f74COfC08697@kauha.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: keinanen@pop.sci.fi X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Paul Keindnen" Subject: Re: LF: Harmonic sampling (Was: Decimation) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >your thoughts about an undersampling LF receiver are very interesting! > >The "tunable crystal filter" solves the problem with multiple alias passbands >associated with undersampling but there are other problems that may >be harder to solve - sampling aperture time and aperture jitter. An undersampling system needs some kind of sample & hold circuit. IIRC from digital audio, the aperture time should be less than T/10 (T=sampling period) in order to keep the high frequency rolloff below 1 dB. So if we assume a hypothetical 300 kHz sampling rate (for 0 .. 140 kHz BW), the aquisition time should be less than 300 ns, which should not be too hard to implement:-). Since the hold time is about 170 us (6 kHz), we are talking about 1:500 aquisition/hold time ratios, which can be a problem due to hold time leakage. The highest slew rate for a 135 kHz sine wave is about half the peak-to-peak (full scale) value in just over 1 us. In a 16 bit system, this corrsponds to 32000 LSB in 1 us, thus, the sample time jitter should be less than 30 ps in order to keep the peak amplitude error smaller than 1 LSB, the average error is much less than this. I guess that crystal oscillators built around badly bypassed CMOS gates should be avoided :-). With a good quality primary reference crystal oscillator and a simple frequency divider chain (with plenty of bypass capacitors), adequate jitter levels should be obtainable. >Perhaps >quantization noise will be a problem too (due to the low Fs ), I don't know... At least in the old days of digital audio, when 14 and 16 bit ADCs were used, a low amplitude (1 LSB) dithering noise was added to the audio signal prior to entering the ADC, thus, the quantisation noise was no longer related to the desired audio signal. By adding dithering noise, low and medium frequency tones could be reproduced well below -100 dB, when the teoretical limit for a 16 bit system would be -96 dB. When modern 20 .. 24 bit ADCs are used, the microphone and preamplifier noise is usually sufficient to convert any quantisation noise into more or less white noise. If some super-selective front end is used (say 250 Hz bandwidth) in the LF receiver, the digital signal may contain signal related quantisation noise, thus some form of dither noise may be required. However, if the analog bandwidth is larger, I guess that the band noise may be used as dither noise. Since the bandwidth after the sample & hold is only a few kHz, 16 to 24 bit ADCs are available and since these ase usually running at 48 to 192 kHz sampling rate, one or two extra bits could be obtained when downsampling these signals, provided that there is some kind of dithering noise present, so I do not think the quantisation noise is a big problem. In the previous message I forgot to mention why I suggested the 6 kHz sampling rate for receiving the 135.7 to 137.9 Khz LF band. The harmonics of the sampling frequency will fall on 132 and 138 kHz and if the input signal is band limitted to that band (or a small fraction of it), the alias with the 138 kHz will fall from 2.3 kHz to 0.1 kHz (inverted spectrum). However, if say, 5 kHz sampling rate is used, the harmonics would be 135 and 140 kHz, thus, frequencies around 137.5 kHz would alias with both these harmonics, making that section of the band more or less useless. >>Of course, sampling at or above 300 kHz (to satisfy the Nyquist criterion) >>is out of the question, due to the availability of such high sampling rate >>ADCs and the huge dynamic range required and also the huge processing power >>required. > >Not necessarily out of the question.. Hardware decimation chips *are* available. >One example is Intersil (formerly Harris) HSP50016 which has a 16-bit parallel >input capable of >50 MSPS. When I return home from my vacation, I have to dig up the old Harris data book, which might also contain a description of this chip. From your description, it appears that it requires an external 16 bit ADC running at the full sampling rate and all this chip does is to reduce the data rate. The primary problem of converting the entire 0 to 150 kHz band with sufficient accuracy still remains. Using some kind of spectral density calculation, the total power of a 1 Hz bandwidth desired signal (e.g. QRSS) is very small compared to the full bandwidth of the whole 150 kHz band, even if it is only occupied by white noise, whith a spectral density only slightly lower than the desired signal. If 16 bits are used to represent the whole bandwidth, then only 6 or 7 bits are available to represent the 1 Hz BW desired signal. This assumed that the unwanted signals were white noise, but in practice, this is far from reality on LF, so even less bits would be available to represent the desired signal. Apparently the other unwanted signals would have some dithering effects, shifting the threshold levels, but since these are not noise, there might be some intermodulation products with the desired signal due to quantisation. >A suitable ADC for this kind of RX is Analog Devices AD9260. This is a 16-bit >ADC with input BW = 1 MHz. It is "oversampling" at 20MSPS and contains a >Fs/8 decimation filter on-chip. With 20MHz clock, the output Fs is 2.5 MHz which >can be used as clock for the HSP50016. >From this description, it appears as if this device is actually a 13 bit flash ADC and the three extra bits are generated by the Fs/8 downsampling :-). This assumes the existence of some dithering signal and that the decission levels of the 13 bit ADC are ideal (no linearity error). When looking at specifications for devices that appear to be far better than ordinary contemporary devices, it is a good idea to look very carefully, how these figures have been obtained. Usually these devices are designed for some specific application compromising some less critical specifications. These devices might not work as expected, when used in a completely different environment. Paul OH3LWR From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14041 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2001 22:23:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Aug 2001 22:23:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 1454 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2001 22:23:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 3 Aug 2001 22:23:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15SnGa-0005Lp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 03 Aug 2001 23:18:00 +0100 Received: from fep02.swip.net ([130.244.199.130] helo=fep02-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15SnGW-0005Lk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 03 Aug 2001 23:17:56 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.84.232]) by fep02-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20010803221715.BSGR29419.fep02-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Sat, 4 Aug 2001 00:17:15 +0200 Message-ID: <000601c11c61$bf0b9fa0$e85497d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Harmonic sampling (Was: Decimation) Date: Sat, 4 Aug 2001 00:17:11 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Paul, your thoughts about an undersampling LF receiver are very interesting! The "tunable crystal filter" solves the problem with multiple alias passbands associated with undersampling but there are other problems that may be harder to solve - sampling aperture time and aperture jitter. Perhaps quantization noise will be a problem too (due to the low Fs ), I don't know... Anyway, the undersampling idea is very interesting. The aperture time has to be very small compared to the period of the input frequency of interest. Many A/D converters, including those integrated on many microcontrollers, will easily run at Fs=6kHz but the aperture time / acquisition time is far greater than a fraction of a 136kHz cycle. Some kind of a fast sample-and-hold circuit has to be inserted before the ADC. >Of course, sampling at or above 300 kHz (to satisfy the Nyquist criterion) >is out of the question, due to the availability of such high sampling rate >ADCs and the huge dynamic range required and also the huge processing power >required. Not necessarily out of the question.. Hardware decimation chips *are* available. One example is Intersil (formerly Harris) HSP50016 which has a 16-bit parallel input capable of >50 MSPS. It has a half-complex mixer and a quadrature NCO that produce an I/Q signal which can be decimated by a programmable factor down to 1/64K of the input Fs! Decimation filters are on-chip (working in the digital domain of course). The output is serial and a lot of formats can be selected, including a real (single-wire) signal in "Weaver/3rd method" mode. A simple RX using this chip was described by KC1HR in QEX September 1997. A suitable ADC for this kind of RX is Analog Devices AD9260. This is a 16-bit ADC with input BW = 1 MHz. It is "oversampling" at 20MSPS and contains a Fs/8 decimation filter on-chip. With 20MHz clock, the output Fs is 2.5 MHz which can be used as clock for the HSP50016. No "nice numbers" though, the NCO in the HSP50016 is a "power-of-two" thing... :-) 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16165 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2001 19:01:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Aug 2001 19:01:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 13445 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2001 19:01:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Aug 2001 19:01:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Sk71-0003Yg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 03 Aug 2001 19:55:55 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Sk6z-0003Rb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 03 Aug 2001 19:55:54 +0100 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15Sk3u-00097t-0Y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 19:52:42 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B6AF458.D9781B7F@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 19:58:32 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Alternative LCR meter. References: <000301c11909$03108960$5f4001d5@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alan G3NYK wrote: > I spotted an ad buried in the back of Radcom by Chevet Supplies Ltd at > Blackpool for a TENMA LCR meter [. . . . .] good value at 44 including > vat and UK carriage. Following Alan's comments, I decided to buy one too! I've only just unpacked it, but initial results with the Tenma Model 72-6634 are encouraging. It may not be ideal for use below 100 pF or 100 uH, but with careful use (that is, allowing for the non-zero display offset), it can give good results. It's a shame that there is no external control for 'zeroing' the display. (There are three internal trim-pots, but it is not clear what they do.) The unit is pocket-sized (about 120 mm x 70 mm x 40 mm) and runs off an internal PP3 (9 volt) battery. A very useful addition to my test equipment - thanks, Alan. Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4134 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2001 17:45:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Aug 2001 17:45:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 19779 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2001 17:44:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 3 Aug 2001 17:44:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15SinN-0002lG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 03 Aug 2001 18:31:33 +0100 Received: from cmailenv3.svr.pol.co.uk ([213.218.77.55]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15SinH-0002kn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 03 Aug 2001 18:31:27 +0100 Received: from 1cust222.tnt2.rtm1.nl.uu.net ([213.116.98.222] helo=w8k3f0) by cmailENV3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15Sik5-000234-00; Fri, 03 Aug 2001 17:28:09 +0000 Message-ID: <000f01c11c42$add94080$de6274d5@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Cc: "Koos Fockens, PA0KDF" Subject: LF: CFA Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 19:34:19 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------050407080800070403070106" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050407080800070403070106 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
To all from PA0SE
 
RadCom of August 2001 features the attached items on the CFA.
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
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from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Aug 2001 13:49:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15SfAA-0000dr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 03 Aug 2001 14:38:50 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail-4.tiscalinet.it ([195.130.225.150] helo=mail.tiscalinet.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15SfA7-0000dh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 03 Aug 2001 14:38:47 +0100 Received: from lyra.tiscalinet.it (62.10.87.121) by mail.tiscalinet.it (5.5.031) id 3B6536B1000D8371 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 15:35:03 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.0.20010803152648.00a88650@pop.tiscalinet.it> X-Sender: cla.po@pop.tiscalinet.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 15:37:56 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Claudio Pozzi" Subject: LF: 136, not a dead band. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Lowfers, I try some CQ next week end, Saturday and Sunday, QRG 137.710 about, QTR from 08.00 to 10.00 UTC (if wether is OK, storms announced). See my working conditions at www.qsl.net/ik2pii. Please note my exact QRG and post me an e-mail, my frequency meter is not calibrated. If test is successful I can be on air also next days. 73 de Claudio, IK2PII From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14592 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2001 09:03:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Aug 2001 09:03:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 5770 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2001 09:03:06 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 3 Aug 2001 09:03:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Sacy-0006Xd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 03 Aug 2001 09:48:16 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ns3.swh.sk ([192.108.125.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Sacw-0006XY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 03 Aug 2001 09:48:15 +0100 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes [192.108.125.60]) by ns3.swh.sk (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f738xEv19518 for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 10:59:14 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA03436 for ; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 10:47:20 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 10:47:18 +0200 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E0333BE9B@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: LF meeting in Slovakia... Date: Fri, 3 Aug 2001 10:47:18 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi LF-ers... I would like to announce the first LF-meeting in Slovakia. place: SINTAVA - SLOVAKIA date: 29.-30.september 2001 The meeting will be in Sintava, near the city Sered in the OM2TW's "two towers" LF QTH. It's about 60km from Bratislava (about 120km from Vienna), near the highway between Trnava and Nitra. All visitors are welcome. If you want to enjoy the LF-meeting, don't hesitate to contact me ! More informations on request. mailto:om2tw@nextra.sk Best regards...73 de Rich OM2TW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11669 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2001 05:53:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Aug 2001 05:53:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 29066 invoked from network); 3 Aug 2001 05:53:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Aug 2001 05:53:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15SXew-0004oK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 03 Aug 2001 06:38:06 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.89]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15SXev-0004oF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 03 Aug 2001 06:38:05 +0100 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15SXeG-000CtE-0V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 3 Aug 2001 06:37:24 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B6A3A05.54503CC0@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 03 Aug 2001 06:43:33 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Wave Analyzer HP-310A...any info ? References: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E0333BE7B@btss103a.swh.sk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Rich > I just found the HP-310A Wave Analyzer in the second hand shop for a > very good price. Anybody have experience with it as a VLF/LF receiver ? > > 73 de Rich OM2TW After I sent you the direct Email to say that I could find no mention of this equipment in my LF Email collection, I have since found the following site via Google: http://www.sonic.net/~shageman/hp310.html Extract: "I found this HP-310 at W.J Ford Surplus in Canada. I am currently using it as a VLF / LF Receiver." Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10597 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2001 18:13:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Aug 2001 18:13:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 17263 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2001 18:13:09 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Aug 2001 18:13:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15SMpV-0007Dk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2001 19:04:17 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from kauha.saunalahti.fi ([195.197.53.227]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15SMpU-0007DZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2001 19:04:16 +0100 Received: from lizard (DVIII.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.74.4.208]) by kauha.saunalahti.fi (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id f72I1Pk15662 for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:01:25 +0300 (EEST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 21:01:25 +0300 (EEST) Message-ID: <200108021801.f72I1Pk15662@kauha.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: keinanen@pop.sci.fi X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Version 1.4.4 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Paul Keindnen" Subject: Decimation (Was: Re: LF: LF Receivers) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >The BFO at 456kHz is derived by extracting the 57th harmonic of the 10MHz >divided down to 8kHz. This was actually extremely simple and the most >satisfying part of the breadboarding process to get going !. Very interesting design ! However, looking at the large number of odd frequencies required and also looking at other suggestions of generating these or similar frequencies using DDS etc., I just wondered, if the reception could be simplified by sampling directly the input frequency. In this way, only a single accurate frequency (the sampling clock) would be required. Of course, sampling at or above 300 kHz ( to satisfy the Nyquist criterion) is out of the question, due to the availability of such high sampling rate ADCs and the huge dynamic range required and also the huge processing power required. However, if the input signal is decimated (undersampled) at some convinient sampling rate (say 6 kHz), the raw data rate would be managable. This will create a large number of images falling on the passband, but if the input spectrum is band limited (say 250 .. 2100 Hz bandwidth), only a single image is produced. Making such LC filters with sufficient stop band attenuation outside the passband would be very hard at 136 kHz and making crystal filters for such low frequencies would also be problematic. How about applying the wave analyzer principle, ie. using a VFO to mix _up_ the input passband to any convinient filter frequency (such as 455 kHz, 3.57, 9.0, 10.7 MHz). After running the signal through a suitable crystal filter, it is mixed _down_ to the original (RF) frequency using the _same_ VFO. Thus, any frequency error created by the VFO is canceled. The long term VFO (or VCXO) frequency stability needs only be better than the crystal frequency bandwidth and since there is a propagation delay (in the order of 1 ms) through the narrow band filter, the VFO short term (1 ms) stability must be quite good in order to avoid generating any frequency errors, thus, a good phase noise performance is required. When the VFO is tuned, the very narrow crystal filter bandwidth moves around the input (and output) RF frequency band, effectively creating a tunable front end filter, with, say 250 Hz bandwidth. When this signal is sampled at some low frequency, some alias (image) will fall somewhere in the audio passband (possibly with an inverted spectrum). The digital signal could then be multiplied within a processor with a LO signal generated by a software NCO (Numerically Controlled Oscillator) to generate very low frequency I and Q signals. Normally NCO/DDS constructions use sin(x) tables with sizes that are powers of 2 (256, 4096 etc.), which is addressed simply by truncating some bits from the NCO phase accumulator. If the processor has a fast divide/modulo instruction, any convinient sin(x) table, such as 1000 element (0..999) table could be used, thus, nice frequency steps could be generated even if the sample rate is some nice number, such as 6 or 12 kHz :-). These are just not random ideas that have not been tested in practice, but I hope these inspire others to think about non-conventional ways of receiving LF signals. Paul OH3LWR From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13719 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2001 15:46:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Aug 2001 15:46:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 20055 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2001 15:45:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Aug 2001 15:45:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15SKXT-0005oj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2001 16:37:31 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15SKXS-0005oT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2001 16:37:30 +0100 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id l.cc.18adc056 (16790) for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:33:44 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:33:44 EDT Subject: Re: LF: The CFA Antenna (again...) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I might add, the W0KPH site shows what appear to be electrically short loaded vertical dipoles, which have nothing to do with the claimed principle of operation of the EH antenna, so far as I can see. 73, John From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2171 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2001 15:36:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Aug 2001 15:36:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 1615 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2001 15:36:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Aug 2001 15:36:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15SKO1-0005ng-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2001 16:27:45 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.97]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15SKO0-0005nP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2001 16:27:44 +0100 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id l.e2.186fc5d4 (16790) for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:24:15 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 2 Aug 2001 11:24:15 EDT Subject: Re: LF: The CFA Antenna (again...) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 8/1/01 12:28:48 PM Eastern Daylight Time, j.r.moritz@herts.ac.uk writes: << Hmmmmm - very interesting - I can't wait to see the legal battle over patent infringements! >> You mean, of course, in jurisdictions where neither device has to be demonstrated to actually work before infringement can exist? :-) The timing of this thread is interesting. I've been following the EH antenna since last September, when its co-developers presented a highly promotional paper at the IEEE Broadcast Technology Symposium in Washington. One of them, Bob Zimmerman, became disillusioned with the antenna and left the company last winter or early in the spring. I live only a little more than an hour's drive from the test site, and have been waiting for them to obtain FCC experimental authorization, which does not appear to be forthcoming. For the record, the W5QJR site is by Ted Hart, the other developer. His site shows the biconical version, but it can also be configured as a plain inverted cone over groundplane. His contention is that for a "magic" conical angle and a length that is a particular fraction of a wavelength, resonating the electrically-short antenna with a single suitable inductor results in a 50-ohm resistive load presented to the transmitter and synthesis of the Poynting vector in space, etc. But as to why the timing is notable: In the same batch of e-mail as these messages from the reflector, I received word of a new online edition of an antenna experimenter's publication, antenneX, in which it appears the CFA is falling on its face--or, on its top-hatted cylinder, if you prefer--among us pesky commercial users, who have the unrealistic notion that anything we spend hundreds of kilodollars on ought to actually work. Check: http://www.antennex.com/Stones/ for the publisher's latest editorial. The whole matter is turning into a big disappointment for him, as the magazine has been promoting CFAs for amateur use for quite some time. 73, John From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24044 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2001 07:48:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Aug 2001 07:48:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 9766 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2001 07:47:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Aug 2001 07:47:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15SD0c-0001Tn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2001 08:35:06 +0100 Received: from relay.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.49]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15SD0a-0001Ti-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 02 Aug 2001 08:35:05 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 15044 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2001 08:32:16 +0100 Received: from trtnmail.dera.gov.uk (146.80.9.56) by relay.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 2 Aug 2001 08:32:16 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28733 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2001 08:36:28 +0100 Received: (ofmipd 192.5.29.90); 2 Aug 2001 07:36:06 -0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id IAA18266; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 08:40:18 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 21987 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2001 08:25:41 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 2 Aug 2001 08:25:41 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id IAA23341; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 08:13:14 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma023303; Thu, 2 Aug 01 08:13:09 GMT Received: from mailex.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with SMTP id for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 08:34:11 +0100 Received: (qmail 11685 invoked from network); 2 Aug 2001 07:22:39 +0100 Date: 2 Aug 2001 08:32:44 +0100 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C578@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-5Received: from softdnserror (HELO cchecker.dstl.gov.uk) (192.168.248.52) by mailex.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 2 Aug 2001 06:22:39 -0000 X-4Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by cchecker.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.2) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 07:22:28 +0100 X-3Received: by FRN-MAIL-R3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)id ; Thu, 2 Aug 2001 08:32:43 +0100 Subject: LF: RE: The CFA Antenna (again...) MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Yes. That is exactly what Maxwell stated and Hertz demonstrated 10 years later (I've just been re-reading a book on basic Electromagnetism). One field is generated from the other as soon as its value changes in time. Anyone who claims to be generating them separately probably only has a partial understanding of the whole process ! The realtive levels of E and H close to the antenna can vary widely depending on antenna topology, these are the near fields talked about a lot here recently, but in the far field both have to exist together, qith E and H related by 120.pi, the impedance of free space. As far as I can make out, all these wonder antennas just consist of a short E field element, with its resultant loss and high capacitance, both phased and resonated with a Loop like element with its high loss and inductive reactance. The two reactances are made to cancel, leaving a purely resistive element to be matched over a narrow bandwidth. If the bandwith is not narrow then the antenna is lossy. QED. Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: Alberto di Bene [mailto:dibene@usa.net] > Sent: 2001-08-01 16:17 > To: LF Mailing List > Subject: LF: The CFA Antenna (again...) > > > It seems that the CFA Antenna now has a new incarnation, > under the name 'EH Antenna'. > > Look here : http://www.netcommander.com/home/w5qjr-/index.htm > > Or, for ham-related stuff, here : http://www.qsl.net/w0kph/ > > What makes me perplex, is the citation of 'independent E and > H fields'. > Unless I completely misunderstood what Maxwell said, the only case > when an E field can exist without a corresponding H field > (and viceversa), > is when they are stationary (in time) fields. Or am I wrong ? > > 73 Alberto I2PHD > > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26231 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 16:34:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 16:34:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 17963 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 16:33:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 16:33:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RyoE-0001sK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2001 17:25:22 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RyoD-0001sF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2001 17:25:21 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15RynZ-0006nf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2001 17:24:41 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15RynY-0005us-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2001 17:24:40 +0100 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 17:26:35 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: The CFA Antenna (again...) X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group,

Alberto wrote:
>It seems that the CFA Antenna now has a new incarnation,
>under the name 'EH Antenna'.

>Look here : http://www.netcommander.com/home/w5qjr-/index.htm


Hmmmmm - very interesting - I can't wait to see the legal battle over patent infringements!

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4863 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 15:28:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 15:28:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 19474 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 15:27:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 15:27:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Rxmb-0001Jt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2001 16:19:37 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.101]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Rxma-0001Jn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2001 16:19:36 +0100 Received: from northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (northrelay01.pok.ibm.com [9.117.200.21]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id LAA424978 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 11:16:17 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (ss10.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.76]) by northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v4.97) with ESMTP id f71FIEd163340 for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 11:18:16 -0400 Message-ID: <3B681D6F.ABC74519@usa.net> Date: Wed, 01 Aug 2001 17:17:03 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Mailing List" Subject: LF: The CFA Antenna (again...) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: It seems that the CFA Antenna now has a new incarnation, under the name 'EH Antenna'. Look here : http://www.netcommander.com/home/w5qjr-/index.htm Or, for ham-related stuff, here : http://www.qsl.net/w0kph/ What makes me perplex, is the citation of 'independent E and H fields'. Unless I completely misunderstood what Maxwell said, the only case when an E field can exist without a corresponding H field (and viceversa), is when they are stationary (in time) fields. Or am I wrong ? 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15741 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 12:54:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 12:54:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 8226 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 12:54:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 12:54:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RvHY-0008Mr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2001 13:39:24 +0100 Received: from relay.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.49]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RvHW-0008Km-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2001 13:39:22 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 21344 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 13:36:34 +0100 Received: from trtnmail.dera.gov.uk (146.80.9.56) by relay.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 13:36:34 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 25338 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 13:40:44 +0100 Received: (ofmipd 192.5.29.90); 1 Aug 2001 12:40:22 -0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id NAA25271; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:44:34 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 26606 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 13:30:00 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 13:30:00 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id NAA16913; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:17:36 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma016900; Wed, 1 Aug 01 13:17:18 GMT Received: from mailex.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with SMTP id for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:38:17 +0100 Received: (qmail 21739 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 12:26:50 +0100 Date: 1 Aug 2001 13:36:53 +0100 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C576@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-5Received: from softdnserror (HELO cchecker.dstl.gov.uk) (192.168.248.52) by mailex.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 11:26:50 -0000 X-4Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by cchecker.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.2) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 12:26:39 +0100 X-3Received: by FRN-MAIL-R3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)id ; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 13:36:51 +0100 Subject: LF: RE: Re: SV: Re: SV: LF Receivers MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The PTC crystal heater may be one of the reasons for your sucess in pulling it so far. Most crystals are designed for nominal 20 deg operation, and if you heat them up the frequency drops. These crystal heaters are particularly useful for /P microwave operators as they allow < 1ppm from a cheap and simple oven. But the crystal must be cut for operation at 50 deg or whatever temperature is chosen. Many of us initially tried the 40 deg heaters on normal 20 deg crystals and found worse stability than not using any heater when exposed to the wide variations out in the field. What happened is that the rise in operating temperature moved the location on the freq / temp response away from the point of inflexion, where it is not too sensitive to a few degrees of variation, (it has a cubic law) onto a steeper part of the curve so the whole arrangement was now a lot more sensitive to external temperature effects. However, using one of these heaters indoors, where temperature is already quite constant does not show the effect so much and does give improved stability over a few degrees variation. Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: John Andrews [mailto:w1tag@charter.net] > Sent: 2001-08-01 12:40 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: Re: SV: Re: SV: LF Receivers > > > Johan, > > >Do you have any circuit suggestion for a suitable "rock bender"? > > I just used a simple Pierce FET oscillator, followed by an > LM6321 buffer, > and it worked. I have an air variable trimmer for rough setting, and a > tuning diode run by a 10 turn pot. I did glue a PTC thermistor to the > crystal to help with temperature. I'll know more about > stability in a couple > of weeks. > > John Andrews, W1TAG > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28763 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 12:01:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 12:01:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 5170 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 12:00:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 12:00:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RuNP-0007ns-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2001 12:41:23 +0100 Received: from dc-mx04.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.14] helo=dc-mx04.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RuNO-0007nn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2001 12:41:22 +0100 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johncellar) by dc-mx04.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 17675120 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2001 07:46:42 -0400 Message-ID: <003101c11a7e$b0c3ada0$0300a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001801c11a5f$ed6ddce0$9a2597d4@oemcomputer> Subject: LF: Re: SV: Re: SV: LF Receivers Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 07:39:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Johan, >Do you have any circuit suggestion for a suitable "rock bender"? I just used a simple Pierce FET oscillator, followed by an LM6321 buffer, and it worked. I have an air variable trimmer for rough setting, and a tuning diode run by a 10 turn pot. I did glue a PTC thermistor to the crystal to help with temperature. I'll know more about stability in a couple of weeks. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4411 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 11:49:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 11:49:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 11080 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 11:49:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 11:49:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RuHT-0007n0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2001 12:35:15 +0100 Received: from dc-mx07.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.17] helo=dc-mx07.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RuHS-0007mv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2001 12:35:14 +0100 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johncellar) by dc-mx07.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 15889948 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2001 07:42:12 -0400 Message-ID: <002b01c11a7d$d58ce760$0300a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C574@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> Subject: LF: Re: LF Receivers Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 07:33:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andy, > But isn't the accuracy and stability of a cheap colour subcarrier xtal, > pulled more than 100ppm from its normal operating point, going to swamp the > values you derive from the 'nice' numbers generated with integer maths ? That's yet to be seen, as I'm in the early stages of the project. At the moment, I can only say that it's staying within a part in 10^7 over the period of a day. Since I have to interrupt work for the next week or so, it will be later in the month before I have a real idea. The DDS board is now outputting 0 dBm down in the LF range, so I will be able to compare harmonics of that with other sources. I'm fully prepared to do some crystal swapping if things don't work out well. I did use an older crystal which has seen previous service. All I need right now is time! John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1941 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 11:03:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 11:03:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 4473 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 11:03:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 11:03:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Rth5-0007Sn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2001 11:57:39 +0100 Received: from relay.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.49]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Rth3-0007RO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2001 11:57:37 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 18059 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 11:54:52 +0100 Received: from trtnmail.dera.gov.uk (146.80.9.56) by relay.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 11:54:52 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24650 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 11:59:02 +0100 Received: (ofmipd 192.5.29.90); 1 Aug 2001 10:58:40 -0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id MAA15268; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 12:02:52 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 21424 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 11:48:18 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 11:48:18 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id LAA10508; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 11:35:54 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma010502; Wed, 1 Aug 01 11:35:32 GMT Received: from mailex.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with SMTP id for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 11:56:30 +0100 Received: (qmail 3283 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 10:45:03 +0100 Date: 1 Aug 2001 11:55:06 +0100 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C575@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-5Received: from softdnserror (HELO cchecker.dstl.gov.uk) (192.168.248.52) by mailex.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 09:45:03 -0000 X-4Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by cchecker.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.2) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:44:53 +0100 X-3Received: by FRN-MAIL-R3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)id ; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 11:55:05 +0100 Subject: LF: RE: SV: LF Receivers MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: What an elegant solution ! For a signal generator as a piece of test equipment its ideal ! Although for my purposes in a receiver, exact frequency increments are not necessary provided the exact value is known. Furthermore the more 'rubbery' or pullable the crystal is, you can make the PLL wider bandwidth, so reducing phase noise. Furthermore, instead of using 1MHz derived via a PLL etc from GPS, you could programme the fixed DDS with a code of 40 and generate a 1Hz signal which you could then lock to 1s GPS pulses directly. Andy, > Not if it is phase locked to the 5/10MHz standard. > > My idea was to use a second DDS chip as divider (with fixed "nice number" > phase increment) to get a "nice number" PLL reference frequency. The VCXO > is then the only odd-ball frequency in the system. > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24944 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 10:24:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 10:24:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 28439 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 10:24:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 10:24:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Rszj-00075E-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2001 11:12:51 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Rszi-000759-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2001 11:12:50 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v4.0.0.R) for ; Wed, 01 Aug 2001 11:07:10 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 11:07:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: DARC web site Message-ID: <3B67E2DC.11625.698A07@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is off topic, so if you know nothing about the DARC web site and Power Line Communications, delete this message now. If you are still reading this, I have been told that the DARC web site has a audio file with the sound of power line communications raising the noise floor of the amateur bands. I can't find this on the public parts of the site, but there is something on this subject on the members only pages which I do not have access to. I have e-mailed the webmaster but have had no reply - possibly because I wrote in English. Ultimately, if such a file exists I need to find a way of getting it on the RSGB web site. Can anyone help with this, please? Apologies for using the LF group for this. Signed with official 'hat' on. Mike Dennison, G3XDV Publications Manager * RadCom * GB2RS News * * RSGB Books and CDs * * RSGB Online Web Site * Radio Society of Great Britain Lambda House, Cranborne Road Potters Bar, Herts UK, EN6 3JE Tel: +44 (0) 1707 659015; Fax: +44 (0) 1707 645105 www.rsgb.org RSGB - UK AMATEUR RADIO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4438 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 09:38:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 09:38:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 8612 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 09:38:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 09:38:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RsMO-0006fR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2001 10:32:12 +0100 Received: from fep02.swip.net ([130.244.199.130] helo=fep02-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RsMK-0006fM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2001 10:32:08 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.46.177]) by fep02-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20010801093122.CQZQ11576.fep02-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 11:31:22 +0200 Message-ID: <005301c11a64$6b64bb60$9a2597d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: SV: LF Receivers Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 11:31:21 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------000406080209030900060902" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000406080209030900060902 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Andy, >But isn't the accuracy and stability of a cheap colour subcarrier xtal, >pulled more than 100ppm from its normal operating point, going to swamp the >values you derive from the 'nice' numbers generated with integer maths ? Not if it is phase locked to the 5/10MHz standard. My idea was to use a second DDS chip as divider (with fixed "nice number" phase increment) to get a "nice number" PLL reference frequency. The VCXO is then the only odd-ball frequency in the system. See attached block diagram. 73 Johan SM6LKM --------------000406080209030900060902 Content-Type: image/tiff; name="ddslock.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="ddslock.gif" R0lGODlhJQOWAYAAAAAAAP///ywAAAAAJQOWAQAC/oyPqcvtD6OctNqLs968+w+G4kiW5omm 6sq27gvH8kzX9o3n+s73/g8MCofEovGITCqXzKbzCY1Kp9Sq9YrNarfcrvcLDovH5LL5jE6r 1+y2+w2Py+f0uv2Oz+v3/L7/DxgoOEhYaHiImKi4yNjo+Ai5AAAQWWl5ick1mcnZ6fkpNEkZ sPlRCoqaqrpKWnracTrKOktbi+gq6yH7atvr+2uHG7KbC2x8jGy2yQt7wJwMHS09Jdo6jFA8 rb3NXbS8kR3bPU5evjOaXcErbN7u/p6ynO48j51QD5+vv2+B/vB8j5/AgQRHiAJoAF/BhQwb 3js4D6HDiRQFVrOmQGHF/o0cy118prGjyJHQLiYsFpKkypW1TLbKlZKlzJmeXJ50RjOnTlU2 MZLaCTQopp4Jiwo9inQRUWsxkzp9WgfgQahUq+5BONWq1q1wJPrkCjZsGa8/xZo9+6Up2rVs 27p9Czeu3Ll069q9izev3r18+/r9Cziw4MGm6kEkjDgxPQYQ1Sp+rDOdVHzMyEK+bK7xUnDh IlJGaRmzaG2as/4D3UCyasOgHY9+bSyW54zrpEpanRo17N3wPKvGRjTi7ckPeRt3N/s28MrC aTt4Ffq4dGDEnS/vLImxv4zF6WmeDr6XbeXXrQPXbvS8+pPfw7tftfS3epggm3+tnf29/lnV 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LJ10zCgHXBkBCzgW/CkQg1qpWSUi5rsLOuqDGRRhpQYGpIfhBYEjVKFFQvinFq4Qhs5IIYJi WMPBxMyQIDi04Q5zkq8X8hCIxfFhEIkYFh3m6odFVCILw+O1JT5xX0n0A7ZsBkUrqkWKsJCg 8Hx3RS/SJl5cvB8X7fRFM7KFjM+qBO3SOLwzvhGMd0rIQXonNTje0UZ7yiIe+TggA/YRkIEU 5CAJWUhDHhKRiVTkIhnZSEc+EpKRlOQkKVlJS14Sk5nU5CY52UlPfhKUoRTlKElZSlOeEpWp VOUqWdlKV74SlrGU5SxpWUtb3hKXudTlLnnZS1/+EpjBFKYoCwAAOw== --------------000406080209030900060902-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9499 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 09:05:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 09:05:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 25312 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 09:04:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 09:04:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RrrC-0006NZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:59:58 +0100 Received: from fep01.swip.net ([130.244.199.129] helo=fep01-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RrrB-0006NU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:59:57 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.37.154]) by fep01-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20010801085912.DHAY28683.fep01-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:59:12 +0200 Message-ID: <001801c11a5f$ed6ddce0$9a2597d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: SV: Re: SV: LF Receivers Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 10:59:14 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John, >3579.545 kHz color burst crystal You are right! Thanks for the tip. I don't know if it is "easily pullable" though... I remember trying a "32 pF parallel 3579 rock" in series resonant mode but I did not get lower than about 3579.3 kHz. The oscillator was a two transistor thing with the xtal connected between the emitters (xtal sees low Z = preserve the Q). Perhaps it will work with some additional inductance in series with the xtal but the Q will suffer I guess... Maybe a *very* low quality xtal will do the trick (lower equivalent L/C = lower Q)? Do you have any circuit suggestion for a suitable "rock bender"? 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21246 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 08:32:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 08:32:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 6972 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 08:32:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 08:32:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RrMK-000679-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:28:04 +0100 Received: from relay.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.49]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RrMI-000674-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2001 09:28:03 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 6200 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 09:25:18 +0100 Received: from trtnmail.dera.gov.uk (146.80.9.56) by relay.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 09:25:18 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23455 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 09:29:28 +0100 Received: (ofmipd 192.5.29.90); 1 Aug 2001 08:29:06 -0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id JAA03668; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:33:17 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 13586 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 09:18:44 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 09:18:44 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id JAA00967; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:06:21 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma000945; Wed, 1 Aug 01 09:06:15 GMT Received: from mailex.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with SMTP id for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:27:13 +0100 Received: (qmail 5843 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 08:15:46 +0100 Date: 1 Aug 2001 09:25:44 +0100 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C574@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-5Received: from softdnserror (HELO cchecker.dstl.gov.uk) (192.168.248.52) by mailex.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 07:15:46 -0000 X-4Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by cchecker.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.2) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:15:36 +0100 X-3Received: by FRN-MAIL-R3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)id ; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 09:25:47 +0100 Subject: LF: LF Receivers MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: But isn't the accuracy and stability of a cheap colour subcarrier xtal, pulled more than 100ppm from its normal operating point, going to swamp the values you derive from the 'nice' numbers generated with integer maths ? Andy > -----Original Message----- > From: John Andrews [mailto:w1tag@charter.net] > Sent: 2001-07-31 23:52 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: Re: SV: LF Receivers > > > Johan, > > Another interesting clock frequency for 32 bit DDS chips is 3579.13941... > kHz, one third the frequency you mentioned. It is easily "pullable" from a > common 3579.545 kHz color burst crystal. While it yields tuning steps of the > oddball value of 0.8333... mHz, it allows integer math to 10 mHz resolution, > which is sufficient for most LF work. I am currently building an LF exciter > based on this setup, using an AD9850 DDS chip. > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18747 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 07:50:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 07:50:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 26206 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 07:50:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 07:50:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Rqek-0005gD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2001 08:43:02 +0100 Received: from relay.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.49]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Rqei-0005g8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2001 08:43:00 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 26903 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 08:40:16 +0100 Received: from trtnmail.dera.gov.uk (146.80.9.56) by relay.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 08:40:16 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 23054 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 08:44:26 +0100 Received: (ofmipd 192.5.29.90); 1 Aug 2001 07:44:04 -0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id IAA00685; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:48:15 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 11072 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 08:33:42 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 08:33:42 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id IAA27796; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:21:19 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma027780; Wed, 1 Aug 01 08:21:03 GMT Received: from mailex.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with SMTP id for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:42:00 +0100 Received: (qmail 28019 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 07:30:33 +0100 Date: 1 Aug 2001 08:40:35 +0100 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C573@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-5Received: from softdnserror (HELO cchecker.dstl.gov.uk) (192.168.248.52) by mailex.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 06:30:33 -0000 X-4Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by cchecker.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.2) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 07:30:23 +0100 X-3Received: by FRN-MAIL-R3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)id ; Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:40:34 +0100 Subject: LF: LF Receivers MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The BFO at 456kHz is derived by extracting the 57th harmonic of the 10MHz divided down to 8kHz. This was actually extremely simple and the most satisfying part of the breadboarding process to get going !. The 8kHz squarewave is transformed up in impedance and applied directly to a small and cheap 455kHz ceramic filter. The output level was 400mV pk-pk, which after a 3dB pad, is now at exactly the right level to drive the NE612 detector. Also, the 8kHz is further divided by 2 to give the 4kHz interrupt to drive the PIC controlling the A/D so all the back end is coherent and locked. Had a separate 4kHz interrupt not been used, the PIC would have to have been clocked at 10MHz and the 4kHz interrupt generated by a messy software routine. Had another BFO freq, such as 454kHz been neseccary, a PLL would probably have been used rather than direct generation. The DDS does have steps of 2.32... mHz but, although the value is inelegant and messy to visualise, at least it is exactly known. What I do in the driver software is to first calculate the 32 bit word for the DDS, then back calculate the exact frequency that is generated and display this, along with the error from what was requested. Any corrections are then made in the plotting / signal monitoring software. I see little point in choosing 'nice' frequency steps just because they have a few digits to express them accurately. To software, steps of (10^7) / (2^32) are just as understandable as steps of 2.5mHz and a computer probably thinks it is quite a pleasent number ! I now have the manual tuning option added and working, so will call it a day for breadboarding and do a bit of gardening before writing up the design. Andy G4JNT > > Is the BFO phase locked to "an exact integer kHz"? If so, the DDS LO > will be the only source of "odd steps". Clocked at 10MHz, it > will produce an LO signal that is a multiple of 2.328306437... mHz (assuming 32-bit > phase accumulator (or do you use the 48-bit creatures?)). > This is a quite unpleasant number if the RX is to be used for *ultra* narrowband work. > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7449 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 07:44:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 07:44:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 14734 invoked from network); 1 Aug 2001 07:43:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Aug 2001 07:43:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RqXe-0005YH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2001 08:35:42 +0100 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RqXd-0005YC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2001 08:35:41 +0100 Received: from [62.7.15.98] (helo=dave) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #9) id 15RqWx-0007HQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 01 Aug 2001 08:34:59 +0100 Message-ID: <002901c11a5c$e365d660$620f073e@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" References: <000301c119f9$0891ab80$1f0f7bd5@default> Subject: LF: Re: Alan infected ?? Date: Wed, 1 Aug 2001 08:36:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alan Melia wrote: >Hi All, Brian CT1DRP reported a strange file with no subject but using a >title I had previously used on a message to Brian as a filename, and >appending the extensions .xls.bat This sounds like the W32.Badtrans@MM virus which has been doing the rounds lately. It sends itself as replies to unread mails in the victims inbox. Like all these things it causes no harm unless the attachment is opened, and in any case all the current virus packages will detect it. However as it is a reply to one of your own mails it can take one unawares, but the double extension is a give away. Note that the mails will come direct from the sender, not via the reflector. Good practice in this case is to always read your mail then move it to a different folder - leave your inbox empty so it will have nothing to work on - and check for any unexpected outgoing mail before you connect and send it. Those who have always on connection and have configured their system to send mail immediately have a problem in this respect. Cheers Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20048 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 22:58:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 22:58:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 8728 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 22:58:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 22:58:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RiOa-0000iA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:53:48 +0100 Received: from dc-mx03.cluster0.hsacorp.net ([209.225.8.13] helo=dc-mx03.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RiOZ-0000i5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:53:47 +0100 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johncellar) by dc-mx03.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.6) with SMTP id 8820561 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 18:59:25 -0400 Message-ID: <000901c11a13$75709da0$0300a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002201c119fe$589f3160$e10a97d4@oemcomputer> Subject: LF: Re: SV: LF Receivers Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 18:52:21 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Johan, Another interesting clock frequency for 32 bit DDS chips is 3579.13941... kHz, one third the frequency you mentioned. It is easily "pullable" from a common 3579.545 kHz color burst crystal. While it yields tuning steps of the oddball value of 0.8333... mHz, it allows integer math to 10 mHz resolution, which is sufficient for most LF work. I am currently building an LF exciter based on this setup, using an AD9850 DDS chip. John Andrews, W1TAG