From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6976 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 21:48:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 21:48:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 12112 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 21:47:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 21:47:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RhHl-0008UZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:42:41 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout06.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.19] helo=mailout06.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RhHk-0008UU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:42:41 +0100 Received: from fwd02.sul.t-online.de by mailout06.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 15RhH6-0002Ns-07; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:42:00 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.157.30.252]) by fwd02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 15RhH6-21Oqo4C; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:42:00 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3B5E8908.E135D569@alg.demon.co.uk> Subject: LF: GW4ALG-400W-PA X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:42:00 +0200 Message-ID: <15RhH6-21Oqo4C@fwd02.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Steve, in DL it is nowadays possi (on request) transmitting with 1W ERP. to achieve the 1W ERP I`m constructing a lf-pa with two triode valves like ur 572B. got a question: the L1 and the L2 shown in the diagram, would u pse give me the inductivity in mH of the centre-tapped windings ? guess the 572B cap grid to ground is abt 8pF and plate to ground abt 1pF like the 3-500Z, ok? I must insert other cores. regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27925 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 21:27:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 21:27:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 13306 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 21:26:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 21:26:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RgxB-0008LK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:21:25 +0100 Received: from fep01.swip.net ([130.244.199.129] helo=fep01-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RgxA-0008LF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 22:21:24 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.10.225]) by fep01-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20010731212044.CKOW28683.fep01-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:20:44 +0200 Message-ID: <002201c119fe$589f3160$e10a97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: SV: LF Receivers Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 23:20:41 +0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Andy Your new RX design is interesting! Is the BFO phase locked to "an exact integer kHz"? If so, the DDS LO will be the only source of "odd steps". Clocked at 10MHz, it will produce an LO signal that is a multiple of 2.328306437... mHz (assuming 32-bit phase accumulator (or do you use the 48-bit creatures?)). This is a quite unpleasant number if the RX is to be used for *ultra* narrowband work. A (more complicated) alternative is to clock the DDS from a 10.7374... MHz VCXO to get 2.50000000... mHz steps. The VCXO can be phase locked to the frequency standard by using a second DDS chip as a non-integer divider. For example, if the divider DDS is set to a phase increment of 400,000,000 the output will be exactly on 1 MHz which can be phase compared with a divided-down 1MHz signal from the standard for PLLing the VCXO. Hmm... Another (less complicated) alternative is that both (all) potential ends of a QSO agree on the same DDS clock frequency, say 10MHz or a (sub-)multiple thereof :~) 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11399 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 19:53:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 19:53:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 24142 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 19:53:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 19:53:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RfUL-0007TS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 20:47:33 +0100 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RfUK-0007TN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 20:47:32 +0100 Received: from [213.123.15.31] (helo=default) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #9) id 15RfTf-0005R2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 20:46:52 +0100 Message-ID: <000301c119f9$0891ab80$1f0f7bd5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Alan infected ?? Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 20:42:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, Brian CT1DRP reported a strange file with no subject but using a title I had previously used on a message to Brian as a filename, and appending the extensions .xls.bat. This was one of a batch of 4 messages sent sent on 30/7/01 at about 2200bst. I had had a strange email message in that session and opened it by mistake, but deleted it immediately without activating the attachment. I have run my virus checker with an updated data file, and show no contamination. I have mailed myself and the message arrived clean. No-one else has reported a problem..... so far. I will not send anyone mail with attachments except Rik ON4YD, and if needed I will check with the recipiant first. Double extensions on the attached file a a clear subject field seem to the the useful indicators as they were for several other worms. For Rik, the format and size of the messages is well known, and I think his firewall will trap most things. I hope I have not caused any of you problems. Please advise immediately if it looks as though I have missed something Tel 01473-623713 Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4179 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 19:28:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 19:28:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 20976 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 19:27:31 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 19:27:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Rf5q-0007Ci-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 20:22:14 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from dargolad.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.27]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Rf5p-0007Cd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 20:22:13 +0100 Received: from srv17slx.esoterica.pt (srv17slx.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.47]) by dargolad.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f6VJLXE26941 for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 20:21:33 +0100 (WEST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from slave2 (por029.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.29]) by srv17slx.esoterica.pt (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA07313 for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 20:21:31 +0100 (WET DST) Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010731192036.008a0100@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 19:20:36 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: 136 dead band. In-reply-to: <+FZB9BAk27Y7Ewjt@telemetry.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello All, It is an extremely brave man who goes near an aerial at all for the last few days at this location. Self preservation dictates gardening or potato digging but sitting in a parked car would probably be safer. On a different subject has anyone any experience of the RA1792 jumping randomly from the setting it has been left on. Mine does this sometimes three or four times a day and can then sit quite happily for a week. The power supplies seem to be correct and clean and the self test runs to completion without fault. Suggestions very gratefully received. 73, Brian At 08:39 29/07/01 +0100, you wrote: >Come on you lot let's have some activity on 136! There is absolutely no >static on the band this Sunday morning and no activity either. Where are >all those who advocated Saturday and Sunday activity mornings? I have >got better things to do than call CQ to myself so I'm off to do some >gardening. Where are all those call-signs I have in my log from a year >or two ago? Have they become disillusioned and cleared off as well? Use >it or lose it as they say. > >73, Tom G3OLB 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20356 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 18:38:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 18:38:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 20545 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 18:38:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 18:38:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ReIL-0006mF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 19:31:05 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.91]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ReIK-0006mA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 19:31:04 +0100 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15ReHf-000EkZ-0X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 19:30:23 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B66FAAB.A6F02F4B@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 19:36:27 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Loop antennas References: <9qoxmJAn3kZ7Ew4x@telemetry.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Tom G3OLB wrote: > Perhaps I should get on and try a loop receive antenna then maybe I > would copy you. I had intended doing so soon to try and null out Lessay > Loran which is strong here in the South-West. I am sure I will hear you > when you use the Butternut for transmit - looking forward to working you > again. I have been amazed at how well you (Tom) copy stations on 136, especially since you are so much closer to the Loran transmitter than me. Nevertheless, I do believe that you will find an overall improvement in the reception of weak signals once you've got a loop installed to null out Loran. As a test, you could start by connecting the far ends of your HF inverted 'V' dipole together with a long length of wire, and tuning the resulting loop from the shack end of the feeder. If this seems practicable at your QTH (perhaps having to rotate the antenna to null out Loran), have a look at: http://www.alg.demon.co.uk/radio/136/loop.htm or: http://www.btinternet.com/~dsergeant/loops.htm Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5392 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 18:11:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 18:11:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 16043 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 18:11:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 18:11:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RdsG-0006Vs-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 19:04:08 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RdsF-0006Vn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 19:04:07 +0100 Received: from ldsas15-79-130-157.cw-visp.com ([212.137.130.157] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15Rdk9-0000e7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 17:55:46 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B66E3B8.A2701985@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 17:58:32 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 136 dead band. References: <+FZB9BAk27Y7Ewjt@telemetry.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Tom Boucher wrote: > Come on you lot let's have some activity on 136! There is absolutely no > static on the band this Sunday morning and no activity either. Where are > all those who advocated Saturday and Sunday activity mornings? I have > got better things to do than call CQ to myself so I'm off to do some > gardening. Perhaps you are better suited to gardening. Is your antenna working? Maybe no one wants to work you !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! I speak frequently to some that have been active on 136 khz and since there is nothing new to get excited about they and myself do not have the inclination to get on 136 khz, there are other bands more exciting for those interested in either a ragchew or dxing. I think you are flogging a dead horse at the present time - concentrate on your gardening. I have several acres under cultivation and have been digging new potatoes for over 2 months. plus all the other produce coming along. After the initial blast of enthusasism from EU a couple of years ago, other countries are very slow to get involved. I have worked 21 countries to date two way on 136 khz with 4 xband, my signal on 136 khz and await something new to call to get excited. G3KEV > Where are all those call-signs I have in my log from a year > or two ago? Have they become disillusioned and cleared off as well? Use > it or lose it as they say. > > 73, Tom G3OLB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11362 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 13:25:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 13:25:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 23969 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 13:25:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 13:25:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RZRI-0003oH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 14:20:00 +0100 Received: from relay.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.49]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RZRE-0003oC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 14:19:56 +0100 Received: (qmail 3497 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 14:17:10 +0100 Received: from trtnmail.dera.gov.uk (146.80.9.56) by relay.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 14:17:10 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 20469 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 14:21:18 +0100 Received: (ofmipd 192.5.29.90); 31 Jul 2001 13:20:56 -0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id OAA10874; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 14:25:07 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 18494 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 14:10:37 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 14:10:37 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id NAA26606; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 13:58:16 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma026586; Tue, 31 Jul 01 13:58:10 GMT Received: from mailex.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 14:18:59 +0100 Received: (qmail 25284 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 13:07:36 +0100 Date: 31 Jul 2001 14:17:36 +0100 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C56F@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: "GUO \(E-mail\)" X-5Received: from softdnserror (HELO cchecker.dstl.gov.uk) (192.168.248.52) by mailex.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 12:07:36 -0000 X-4Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by cchecker.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.2) with ESMTP id ; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 13:07:25 +0100 X-3Received: by FRN-MAIL-R3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21)id ; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 14:17:39 +0100 Subject: LF: LF Receivers MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I am now putting the finishing stages to a custom LF receiver, designed to be a useful accurate measurement tool as well as for operating. The design is optimised for narrow band and ultra narrow-band working, but with an audio bandwidth suitable still for CW. An A/D converter is included as an integral part, with formatted data sent to a PC via the serial port making soundcards, with their poor frequency stability and difficulties in driver software, unnecessary. ALL frequencies and A/D timing are derived from one master oscillator which may be an onboard TCXO (< 1ppm) or a highly stable external 5 / 10MHz reference. The basic receiver line up is as follows : A 7th order LP filter cutting off at 150kHz to give greater then 100dB rejection of the image frequency in the MF broadcast band. LPF cutoff frequency could be higher, but we have very high power LF broadcasting in Europe and I didn't want to tempt the possibility of overloading if close to a transmitter. MAR-3 modamp RF amplifier driven at constant current supply for temperature stability and interference rejection at low frequencies SRA-8 Double balanced mixer, upconverting to 455kHz IF Low phase noise LO derived from a DDS module over-clocked at 10MHz, with extra filtering to eliminate spurii Automatic External / Internal reference switching, with frequency doubling of a 5MHz signal if needed 300Hz bandwidth mechanical filter at 455kHz IF gain provided by an Analog Devices AD603 prescision voltage controlled gain stage, from a manual gain control pot. This chip is laser trimmed to provide 10 - 50dB gain with 0-1V and enables relative gain to be determined very accurately, to a fraction of a dB by just measuring the applied voltage with a DVM. AGC is not an option in a measurement Rx ! A BFO at 456kHz derived from the 10MHz reference mixes the IF to 1kHz centre frequency. Audio Bandpass filter at 1kHz reduces the bandwidth to 100Hz 12 Bit A/D converter sampling the 1kHz audio at 4kHz, generating 14 bit Complex I / Q pairs at 1kHz sampling rate, centred on 1kHz. ie a 1kHz tone appears in the data as if it were at zero frequency with up to +/- 50Hz sidebands Sensitivity of the receiver is sufficient to be used directly with a 0.8m loop (at least for urban noise levels) without having too much gain that the IF has to be wound back too far when connected to a full size antenna. The receiver hardware is working perfectly, but at the moment tuning is only under computer control of the DDS and I still need to add a manual tuning mode. This will be 10 turn potentiometer which, via an 8 bit A/D, can set 0 - 255 frequency increments from a base value. Channel (increment) readout can use the same DVM module already in use for gain setting, by measuring the voltage directly. Both Base frequency and Increment will be programmable from a PC and stored in non-volatile memory in the PIC controlling the DDS, ready for instant turn on. Doing it this way means the simple addition of the A/D chip to my existing DDS module with new PIC software. By setting an increment of, say, 10Hz, the whole 137kHz allocation can be covered without reprogramming, as well as most of 73kHz for aural CW listening. Alternatively the DDS LO could be replaced with the other designs around that make use of rotary encoders and LCD displays. When finished a write up will follow which will hopefully be published in one of the magazines, QEX or RadCom - haven't decided who to send it to yet ! This is not a cheap low cost receiver just for routine operating, but has been designed to be almost a laboratory grade piece of equipment useful for precise frequency and amplitude measurements. Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: Andre Kesteloot [mailto:akestelo@bellatlantic.net] > Sent: 2001-07-31 12:58 > To: rsgb_lf_group > Subject: LF: LF Receivers > > > We have posted on our website at > > . > > some details of the new AMRAD receiving antenna that will > appear in QST > for September. > > In addition you can now also find there the complete > instruction manual > for the Cubic 3030 receiver, in PDF format. (The Cubic 3030 > is a US Mil > Spec receiver that covers from 5 kHz through 30 MHz. Both Sandy WB5MMB > and I own one). > > 73 > André N4ICK. > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution,o r any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5302 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 12:28:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 12:28:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 14086 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 12:28:24 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 12:28:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RYWv-0003Fk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 13:21:45 +0100 Received: from ns3.swh.sk ([192.108.125.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RYWs-0003Fc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 13:21:43 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes [192.108.125.60]) by ns3.swh.sk (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f6VCWav05488 for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 14:32:36 +0200 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id OAA22736 for ; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 14:20:41 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 14:20:39 +0200 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E0333BE7B@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: Wave Analyzer HP-310A...any info ? Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 14:20:36 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi LF-ers... I just found the HP-310A Wave Analyzer in the second hand shop for a very good price. Anybody have experience with it as a VLF/LF receiver ? 73 de Rich OM2TW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2206 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 12:04:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 12:04:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 15521 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 12:04:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 12:04:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RY9U-00034q-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 12:57:32 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp005pub.verizon.net ([206.46.170.184] helo=smtp005.mailsrvcs.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RY9R-00034l-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 12:57:29 +0100 Received: from bellatlantic.net ([151.200.117.146]) by smtp005.mailsrvcs.net with ESMTP ; id f6VBuDr14945 Tue, 31 Jul 2001 06:56:14 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B669D5E.9B7137B6@bellatlantic.net> Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 07:58:22 -0400 From: "Andre Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: LF Receivers Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by smtp005.mailsrvcs.net id f6VBuDr14945 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: We have posted on our website at . some details of the new AMRAD receiving antenna that will appear in QST for September. In addition you can now also find there the complete instruction manual for the Cubic 3030 receiver, in PDF format. (The Cubic 3030 is a US Mil Spec receiver that covers from 5 kHz through 30 MHz. Both Sandy WB5MMB and I own one). 73 André N4ICK. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4416 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 07:39:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 07:39:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 22892 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 07:38:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 07:38:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RU2E-0000XY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 08:33:46 +0100 Received: from mail1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.18]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RU2D-0000XT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 08:33:45 +0100 Received: from modem-635.javanese.dialup.pol.co.uk ([217.134.82.123] helo=robing) by mail1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15RU1Y-0001iK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 08:33:04 +0100 Message-ID: <000b01c1198a$f901a3a0$7b5286d9@robing> From: "Robin T. Greenwood" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000301c11909$03108960$5f4001d5@default> Subject: LF: Re: Alternative LCR meter. Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 07:35:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The Thandar Thurlby TTi TC200A is pretty good. I even used it for earth rod resistive measurements.. E/Wireless World had an offer a couple of years back for £50. You can measure to 0.1micro H. I am very pleased with it. Try their web site Robin G3LBA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19518 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 06:38:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 06:38:00 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 130 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 06:37:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 06:37:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RT4v-0008Sb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 07:32:29 +0100 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RT4u-0008SW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 07:32:29 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15RT4G-000GYo-0A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 06:31:48 +0000 Message-ID: <9qoxmJAn3kZ7Ew4x@telemetry.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 31 Jul 2001 07:19:19 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: Re: LF: Re: 136 dead band. In-reply-to: <008401c118ca$a21db1c0$dd32073e@dave> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 3.05 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave 'YMC Perhaps I should get on and try a loop receive antenna then maybe I would copy you. I had intended doing so soon to try and null out Lessay Loran which is strong here in the South-West. I am sure I will hear you when you use the Butternut for transmit - looking forward to working you again. 73, Tom G3OLB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11810 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 05:39:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 05:39:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 5138 invoked from network); 31 Jul 2001 05:38:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 31 Jul 2001 05:38:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RS73-0007uN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 06:30:37 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RS72-0007uI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 06:30:36 +0100 Received: from [62.7.33.76] (helo=dave) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #9) id 15RS6N-0002qO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 31 Jul 2001 06:29:56 +0100 Message-ID: <000001c11982$3ee4a7e0$4c21073e@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000301c11909$03108960$5f4001d5@default> Subject: LF: Re: Alternative LCR meter. Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 20:33:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alan Melia wrote: >I spotted an ad buried in the back of Radcom by Chevet Supplies Ltd at >Blackpool for a TENMA LCR meter For interest, I have been using the Almost All Digital Electronics L/C meter mentioned by David G0MRF for some time, and find it excellent. It is perhaps not in the same category as the Tenma meter Alan mentions, so cannot be directly compared. But note that its range is 1nH to 150mH, .01pF to 1.5uF, with four digit readout and zeroing out of strays across the range. Test frequency is between 20kHz and 750kHz depending on the value, so gives a reading at real rf frequencies. The full spec can be found on their website - www.aade.com. I bought mine direct from them at around 77 pounds including import duty, I remember the price from Mainline was pretty similar. I use it of course in connection with my business, and could justify the price for that reason. But the ability to read inductance values with confidence is invaluable in 136kHz work. Note that the battery doesn't last long if you forget to turn it off! A power save function might have been a useful addition. Cheers Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12091 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2001 17:27:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jul 2001 17:27:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 14615 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2001 17:26:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 30 Jul 2001 17:26:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RGfo-0000wd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:17:44 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout00.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.16] helo=mailout00.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RGfn-0000wS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 18:17:43 +0100 Received: from fwd00.sul.t-online.de by mailout00.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 15RGf8-0007Vd-05; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 19:17:02 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.227.109.75]) by fwd00.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 15RGew-26ErAGC; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 19:16:50 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001201c11849$2281dda0$2c2997d4@W98.swipnet.se> Subject: Re: LF: Loop/vertical on RX X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 19:16:50 +0200 Message-ID: <15RGew-26ErAGC@fwd00.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: C Andersson schrieb: > Hello Group, > Today´s QSO with Tom G3OLB was the first real test of my new rotary loop (3 m > diam). > When I listened on the transmitting antenna there was *no* sign of Tom but on > the loop he was QRK 3-4, enough for a QSO. > > /Christer > sm6pxj Hi Christer, what kind of loop do u use ? regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25874 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2001 15:18:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jul 2001 15:18:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 2214 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2001 15:18:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 30 Jul 2001 15:18:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15REfo-0008Hp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 16:09:36 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15REfn-0008Hk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 16:09:35 +0100 Received: from [213.1.64.95] (helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #9) id 15REf8-0002AT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 16:08:54 +0100 Message-ID: <000301c11909$03108960$5f4001d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Alternative LCR meter. Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 16:04:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, being lazy and not getting round to building myself anything for measuring inductance above 1mH directly, I have been wondering about the meter Dave built last year, and is available I believe from Mainline. I found the ideal as far as I saw it in a multi-meter with an L range, in the Metex product range from HF Instruments (who do Andy's A/D and DDS pcb) Unfortunately Chris advised me that Metex had refused to supply them as they didn't sell enough. I have been unable to find another importer/distributor/retailer of the product in the UK. I spotted an ad buried in the back of Radcom by Chevet Supplies Ltd at Blackpool for a TENMA LCR meter. There are the usual silly typos in the ad, the lowest range is actually 2mH FSD on a 3 1/2 digit LCD display, so the resolution (ls digit) is 1uH though this is well below the strays/zero error. It goes up to 20H for anyone wanting to load an ELF antenna!! The measuring frequency is 250Hz so there is not much error due to self capacity. A quick test show that it measures my loading coils to the same values that I calculated from resonance tests. Where I found it it quite illuminating is in investigating the effect of ferrite in the coils. This is a lot easier to do with a direct reading meter. Unfortunately ( though, not surprisingly ) the R range is done at DC, I was hoping to investigate ground resistance with that but it looks like I have no alternative but to build that bit of kit. Still the Tenma was good value at £44 including vat and UK carriage. Chevet also do a stock a wide selection of vintage out-of-print radio books, so if anybody wants a Terman (or a CR100 handbook) they have several on offer.( Also Admiralty Handbooks) www.chevetsupplies.co.uk Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23018 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2001 12:25:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jul 2001 12:25:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 16053 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2001 12:25:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 30 Jul 2001 12:25:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RC0X-0006mJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 13:18:49 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15RC0T-0006mE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 13:18:45 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15RBzn-0000KX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 13:18:03 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15RBec-0005w6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:56:10 +0100 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 12:58:03 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Rugby off and on X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, The Rugby TX on 73.25kHz was back on this morning after being off over the weekend. The 60kHz time signal was also back on, but 16kHz was still silent. I had a 73kHz QSO with G3XDV on Saturday morning; QRN was very loud. Mike was the only signal I heard, however. I went to the Rugby rally on Sunday; judging by the contractors' signs outside, some kind of major refurbishment is going on there, although whether this is to do with the VLF or the HF parts of the site was not clear. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18087 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2001 09:09:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jul 2001 09:09:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 21781 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2001 09:09:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 30 Jul 2001 09:09:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15R8tV-0004yr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:59:21 +0100 Received: from fortress.tele2.co.uk ([212.19.64.194] helo=mail.tele2.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15R8tT-0004yj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:59:20 +0100 Received: from martin (wireless-066-114.tele2.co.uk [212.19.66.114]) by mail.tele2.co.uk (Postfix) with SMTP id 14B0040095 for ; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:52:24 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <000b01c118d5$40bb6c50$8300a8c0@martin> From: "M5CIX" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <+FZB9BAk27Y7Ewjt@telemetry.demon.co.uk> <008401c118ca$a21db1c0$dd32073e@dave> Subject: LF: Re: Re: 136 dead band. Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:53:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: For me and I am sure for others amateur radio is a winter or bad weather activity. Long hot summer nights provide all sorts of other opportunities!!! Martin M5CIX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17849 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2001 08:51:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jul 2001 08:51:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 2556 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2001 08:51:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 30 Jul 2001 08:51:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15R8gA-0004qF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:45:34 +0100 Received: from smtp0.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.193.6] helo=smtp.wanadoo.nl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15R8g9-0004qA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:45:33 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from nl9222 (p1444.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.170.169]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f6U8ina02957 for ; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 10:44:49 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <200107300844.f6U8ina02957@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 10:44:8 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. 73KHz Beacon X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] X-FoxAttach: C:\My Documents\g3aqc.gif MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------040807010204090804080503" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040807010204090804080503 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit At 7/29/01 6:15:00 PM, you wrote: >Hi John and all, >Sunspot no's and Kp index pretty low so I shall run my beacon again tonight. Freq. 71.922KHz., 30 sec dot QRSS., from 2230 to 0400 UTC approx. Hope you are about John. 73s Laurie. Laurie and all... Received all oke last night, signals -50.9dBm with the old setup. Decided to try the Kenwood R- 5000 [only used for Ndb chasing] on 73Khz R5000 only goes down to 30Khz and tuning is not as smooth as the NRD but came with 270Hz wide cw filter fitted and showed ur signal -39.8dBm with Argo. 73 Ko Versteeg, NL9222 [Grid: JO22KE - Lat: 52° 12' 15.0"N Long: 04° 51' 40.5"E] Home: http://home.wanadoo.nl/nl9222/index.htm http://leden.tref.nl/~nl9222tv/default.htm --------------040807010204090804080503 Content-Type: image/gif; name="g3aqc.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="g3aqc.gif" R0lGODlhWAEoALMAAAAAAAQABAgACAQIBgAEFAcJFgcHIgYHOhgaMh8gRiYnWUNEfXJ1nqqs 1+fq+P/8/CwAAAAAWAEoAAAE/jDIAKqVIkvCzVGLwRGJopRLIlLVxrHtdAVc0RlJguyHOHIH hM9gUiAItNdggoQNRkyDr7mxQSfLWCBjAUwwPw1BAGuRvzOJN1lok7vfczlGkEp/hIKwMIDX 7y9NF2tfhYVdcDJeiYqIh4uMjV6ASC0dNixqiE9Qjnk7NjglJjoIVng7TXg+hkmBRCpTBkd4 f4CWUKtBBUwUNyMFt3B6J3vBmFqZj0kSnIIVeZgSvJKEVQUCFwIj2Yje1l91lYl1JUJXc+E/ rd/gjjKFHBlyatt4mmtUFgQIJqzt0P680BLoz4GDdmrVokFswQIjgjLxU9EBAQMGCoaoGiEl 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SDRxBtIsvjuaKvwpv7LrDRVklbViDim2v4TmKWk0GfZoMukJTfIKYsHwdEMrA/xAHjmoXVjz IPPTU7Z8HqnKOnKHERo4mWTiHKLSbXqhAS/ma8vbEgfyYtSiA7LyDKfVSCqmYhyCTjfVjZ7x B5EwSfkBDIfqy7fxE0GBiWBM08Yk8wgIAhDiYAW5sW5k3JHuYy54cBJIdynLyZPU2KO4VRd5 YwshvJs7dR/N4kBHd9RIHZ/eY7txkzs9NmZt5jiC05Xe9DPccU2t6RXaTBq54wcaIxFY+C23 FCJBUTwgmireFZntLBS1i4VY0BkO6yEDor5RMArOm0w6yZOVmzjcgFgnmW8ph1nRdw7Z3Ajb UNRpuaOzoGckBkmiAZ8TpKGNtRzD5KAkqRDpNmJHNXWwd020dUDLUW9X4xVVmUeBhTG4Eh4y BEMhc2SUY7POFQARAAAAOw== --------------040807010204090804080503-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20075 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2001 08:38:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jul 2001 08:38:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 13007 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2001 08:38:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 30 Jul 2001 08:38:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15R8TK-0004iE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:32:18 +0100 Received: from cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.171]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15R8TI-0004i9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:32:16 +0100 Received: from modem-114.lamark-angel.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.36.242] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15R8S2-0004De-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 09:30:58 +0100 Message-ID: <002b01c118d2$29ff98e0$f224893e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. 73KHz Beacon. Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 08:52:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
I ran the beacon from 2230UTC until about 0100 when I checked and found that the fuses had blown. Heat sink still hot so fairly recent. Replaced fuses and reset Dash/Dot ratio to 2:1.
Checked again at 0300 fuses blown again Heat sink cold !!!
So decided to shut down and get some sleep.
Moral, its one thing to push the TX on a  winter night with lots of lovely cold air around,but on a hot summer night its a different matter. So need to think again Hi .If anyone heard/saw the transmission would appreciate a report.  73s Laurie. 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 127 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2001 07:42:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jul 2001 07:42:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 24307 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2001 07:42:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 30 Jul 2001 07:42:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15R7bJ-0004BI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 08:36:29 +0100 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15R7bF-0004BD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 08:36:25 +0100 Received: from [62.7.50.221] (helo=dave) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #9) id 15R7aa-0005q0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 08:35:45 +0100 Message-ID: <008401c118ca$a21db1c0$dd32073e@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" References: <+FZB9BAk27Y7Ewjt@telemetry.demon.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: 136 dead band. Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 08:36:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Tom G3OLB wrote: When I listened on the transmitting antenna there was *no* sign of Tom but on the loop >he was QRK 3-4 As most of you know, I have been using a loop antenna for transmit/receive for several years (see my web site) - this is much bigger than the likes of the G3LNP loop with a circumference of 100ft. I am now experimenting with a vertical, a loaded Butternut vertical 30ft high. It is rather interesting to note that apart from Tom's signal, who is in a null of my loop and is much stronger on the vertical, without exception all other signals are a similar strength on the vertical. However the noise level on the vertical is higher, which means that in all cases copy is much better on the loop - the difference is in fact quite spectacular. I have been saying for a long time that loops make excellent receive antennas, this has convinced me. I have not been able to check the relative performance in its other null, due to the lack of activity from the continent, in particular PA0. It is worth remembering that the same may not apply to smaller loop antennas of 1-2m square, where the received signal is lower and the signal to noise ratio advantage may be less. I have one or two changes still to do to the transmitter before I can use the vertical on transmit, but hope that will be soon. Perhaps I will then be able to work Tom!! Cheers Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1346 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2001 06:47:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jul 2001 06:47:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 12184 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2001 06:46:52 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 30 Jul 2001 06:46:52 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15R6lb-0003mE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 07:43:03 +0100 Received: from ns3.swh.sk ([192.108.125.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15R6la-0003m9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 07:43:02 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes [192.108.125.60]) by ns3.swh.sk (8.11.0/8.11.0) with ESMTP id f6U6s2v10654 for ; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 08:54:02 +0200 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA07288 for ; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 08:42:08 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 08:42:05 +0200 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E0333BE70@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: 136 dead band. Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 08:42:04 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all... I was on 136kc saturday and sunday all the day...CQ-ing and tuning from 136.3-137.8 monitoring CW and QRSS too. I worked only Gyuri HA6PC. He was 579 and he gave me 579 (normaly 599/599). No QRN, but I think the condx were very poor. I'm active on the band every weekend, but most of the time I wasted with my CQ call. I worked only 1 (one) QSO in last 30 days !!! But mostly was a lot of QRN. Also the weather is pretty hot (it's better to stay at pool than by radio). So, be patient until the condx will be better....see you on the band. 73 de Rich OM2TW -----Original Message----- From: Tom Boucher [mailto:tom@telemetry.demon.co.uk] Sent: Sunday, July 29, 2001 9:39 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 136 dead band. Come on you lot let's have some activity on 136! There is absolutely no static on the band this Sunday morning and no activity either. Where are all those who advocated Saturday and Sunday activity mornings? I have got better things to do than call CQ to myself so I'm off to do some gardening. Where are all those call-signs I have in my log from a year or two ago? Have they become disillusioned and cleared off as well? Use it or lose it as they say. 73, Tom G3OLB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7218 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2001 06:12:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Jul 2001 06:12:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 27719 invoked from network); 30 Jul 2001 06:12:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 30 Jul 2001 06:12:04 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15R6AG-0003P3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 07:04:28 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15R6AF-0003Oy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 07:04:27 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 15R69a-0004d5-0K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Jul 2001 06:03:46 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 30 Jul 2001 07:01:35 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: Re: LF: Loop/vertical on RX In-reply-to: <001201c11849$2281dda0$2c2997d4@W98.swipnet.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 3.05 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Christer Thanks for coming on and the QSO. Your signal was really quite weak in comparison to how I have heard you in the past when we exchanged 599 reports. It does amaze me how propagation can vary on 136. 73, Tom G3OLB In message <001201c11849$2281dda0$2c2997d4@W98.swipnet.se>, C Andersson writes >Hello Group, >Today´s QSO with Tom G3OLB was the first real test of my new rotary loop (3 m >diam). >When I listened on the transmitting antenna there was *no* sign of Tom but on >the loop he was QRK 3-4, enough for a QSO. > >/Christer >sm6pxj > > > > -- Tom Boucher 'Hedgerows' Sheldon Honiton Devon EX14 4QS From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27096 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2001 19:53:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jul 2001 19:53:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 26466 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2001 19:53:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 29 Jul 2001 19:53:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15QwYC-0006cD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 20:48:32 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.88]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15QwYA-0006c8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 20:48:30 +0100 Received: from boxernet.demon.co.uk ([194.222.47.214] helo=TRIXY) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15QwXV-000CRu-0U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 20:47:49 +0100 From: "Michael Probert" To: "lf group" Subject: LF: RE: QRP Tests Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 20:46:49 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <3B642E68.A3CC1672@alg.demon.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello All, In a direct e mail to me Steve GW4ALG wrote >>>>>>-----Original Message----- Sent: 29 July 2001 08:40 To: Michael Probert Subject: Your QRP Tests Hi Mike, What a most impressive antenna! I believe the distance between us to be 174 km. To confirm your reports: Usual power: 589 (Normally abt 300W out 3.5/4 amp ant current) 40 W: 569 10 W: 5 5/6 9 5 W: 559 1 W: 549 As you will know, QRP is generally taken to be 5 W RF output, or less. I would guess that your antenna is probably 10 dB up on my 12 m vertical.<<<<<<<<<<<<< Yes Steve I too was surprised that you were receiving me on the last test. I don't have any accurate means of measuring power output ( very basic here only multi meter & inductance meter) But the input was 3V @ 0.5amp so I guess O/P was close to 1W to the antenna. I did actually switch the PA off hoping that a few mW might creep through from the driver, but that was asking too much! It also says a lot for your RX set up. I could not hear Dave G3YMC nor F6BWO when Tom G3OLB was in qso with him. I confirm that the Tx ant. here is a coventional doublet with 60m top up 20m fed with 300ohm ribbon, strapped at feed end. Rx ant. G3LNP loop. On receive the main antenna usually is far noisier albeit with stronger signals. All of which goes to prove what we know already that a good transmitting antenna does not always work well on receive. Must get round to making Peter's (G3LDO) loop. It's the thought of soldering all those Litz wire connections that keeps putting me off! Many thanks Steve for the most interesting test. Regards to all Mike GW4HXO. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26526 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2001 17:23:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jul 2001 17:23:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 9959 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2001 17:23:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 29 Jul 2001 17:23:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Qu9k-0005Kj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 18:15:08 +0100 Received: from cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.177]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Qu9i-0005Ke-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 18:15:07 +0100 Received: from modem-40.pearl-scale-butterfly.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.48.40] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15Qu93-00051W-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 18:14:25 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c11852$1e9a5420$2830893e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. 73KHz Beacon Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 18:15:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi John and all,
Sunspot no's and Kp index pretty low so I shall run my beacon again tonight. Freq. 71.922KHz.,  30 sec dot QRSS., from 2230 to 0400 UTC approx. Hope you are about John.  73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1956 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2001 16:19:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jul 2001 16:19:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 25377 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2001 16:19:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 29 Jul 2001 16:19:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15QtAy-0004iE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 17:12:20 +0100 Received: from fep01.swip.net ([130.244.199.129] helo=fep01-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15QtAx-0004i9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 17:12:19 +0100 Received: from W98 ([212.151.41.44]) by fep01-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20010729161137.URHS20404.fep01-svc.swip.net@W98> for ; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 18:11:37 +0200 Message-ID: <001201c11849$2281dda0$2c2997d4@W98.swipnet.se> From: "C Andersson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Loop/vertical on RX Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 18:11:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Group, Today´s QSO with Tom G3OLB was the first real test of my new rotary loop (3 m diam). When I listened on the transmitting antenna there was *no* sign of Tom but on the loop he was QRK 3-4, enough for a QSO. /Christer sm6pxj From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9539 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2001 15:47:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jul 2001 15:47:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 19326 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2001 15:46:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 29 Jul 2001 15:46:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Qsfr-0004Xg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 16:40:11 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.88]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Qsfq-0004Vn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 16:40:10 +0100 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15Qsf9-000Cbv-0U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 16:39:27 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B642C22.1DEC2597@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 16:30:42 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 136 dead band. References: <+FZB9BAk27Y7Ewjt@telemetry.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Tom wrote: > > Come on you lot let's have some activity on 136! There is absolutely no > static on the band this Sunday morning and no activity either. Activity was indeed low, and conditions seemed rather poor. After a late start this morning, I did work Dave G3YMC (08:00), and Mike GW4HXO (08:29). Both stations seemed to be about 4 dB weaker than usual. I also heard G3OLB working SM6PXJ; F6BWO; and GW4HX0. (But I could not hear any signals from Christer, because of the ever-present S4 signal on about 136.67.) A 'stranger' in the form of an intermittent S5 carrier was heard around 136.58. After my QSO with Mike, I then ran with the 'CQ baton' for an hour, or so. After that, I too decided it was time to do some work in the garden. I can only hope that a newcomer needing a test signal benefited from my CQ calls. On hot summer days such as these, mornings are the quietest times to be QRV on LF. See you next weekend? BTW. Just in case Alan thought that his receiver was on the blink again, I should mention that Mike was doing some QRP tests during our QSO. I'll leave it to Mike to report the details . . . Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29881 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2001 14:59:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jul 2001 14:59:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 27247 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2001 14:59:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 29 Jul 2001 14:59:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Qrx9-00042d-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 15:53:59 +0100 Received: from siaag1af.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.8]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Qrx8-00042Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 15:53:58 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1af.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id KAA17602 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 10:53:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 10:53:01 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: 136 dead band. To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200107291053_MC3-DAB7-2AA2@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Tom, I currently do the same what Rugby just did: a major owerhawl of my station (particularely my antenna mast, which has to be fixed ...). Will be QRV again later this summer, also RX on 73 kHz. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25242 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2001 10:24:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jul 2001 10:24:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 10452 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2001 10:24:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 29 Jul 2001 10:24:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15QnaF-0001jo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 11:14:03 +0100 Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.42]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15QnaE-0001jj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 11:14:02 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.96.202]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010729101321.ZPIZ29790.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 11:13:21 +0100 Message-ID: <000601c11817$2ede0060$ca6068d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <+FZB9BAk27Y7Ewjt@telemetry.demon.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: 136 dead band. Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 11:13:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3OLB wrote: > Come on you lot let's have some activity on 136! There is absolutely no > static on the band this Sunday morning and no activity either. I was on the 73kHz band and will return to 136k when the Rugby RTTY comes back on the air. Mike, G3XDV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15607 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2001 08:10:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jul 2001 08:10:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 4345 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2001 08:10:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 29 Jul 2001 08:10:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15QlWc-0000dh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 09:02:10 +0100 Received: from fep01.swip.net ([130.244.199.129] helo=fep01-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15QlWb-0000dc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 09:02:09 +0100 Received: from W98 ([212.151.38.168]) by fep01-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20010729080129.TVFP20404.fep01-svc.swip.net@W98> for ; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 10:01:29 +0200 Message-ID: <008201c11804$a847d420$a82697d4@W98.swipnet.se> From: "C Andersson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: SV: 136 dead band. Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 10:01:17 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I'll be on 136.65 between 09.00-10.00 UTC and between 12.00-13.00 today Sunday. It would be nice to see what the conds are like right now, in different directions. 73 /Christer sm6pxj G3OLB: >Come on you lot let's have some activity on 136! From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20491 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2001 07:52:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Jul 2001 07:52:35 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 9005 invoked from network); 29 Jul 2001 07:52:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 29 Jul 2001 07:52:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15QlDp-0000Um-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 08:42:45 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.89]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15QlDo-0000Uh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 08:42:44 +0100 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15QlD6-000N26-0V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Jul 2001 08:42:03 +0100 Message-ID: <+FZB9BAk27Y7Ewjt@telemetry.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 29 Jul 2001 08:39:16 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: LF: 136 dead band. MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 3.05 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Come on you lot let's have some activity on 136! There is absolutely no static on the band this Sunday morning and no activity either. Where are all those who advocated Saturday and Sunday activity mornings? I have got better things to do than call CQ to myself so I'm off to do some gardening. Where are all those call-signs I have in my log from a year or two ago? Have they become disillusioned and cleared off as well? Use it or lose it as they say. 73, Tom G3OLB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20416 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2001 09:52:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Jul 2001 09:52:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 10568 invoked from network); 28 Jul 2001 09:52:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 28 Jul 2001 09:52:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15QQYj-0006Q1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 10:38:57 +0100 Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.43]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15QQYi-0006Pw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 10:38:56 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.96.81]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010728093815.LEUJ23687.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Sat, 28 Jul 2001 10:38:15 +0100 Message-ID: <001501c11749$1d24ffa0$516068d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: Rugby back on Date: Sat, 28 Jul 2001 10:38:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > I was just about ready for another bout of 73kHz operating this > weekend, to take advantage of the Rugby shutdown. But this > morning there was a signal on 73.25kHz again, so it looks like > mainenance must have been completed. > 73 de M0BMU Rugby is off Saturday morning (28th) and I am beaconing with QRSS. Mike, G3XDV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10430 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2001 15:14:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Jul 2001 15:14:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 9357 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2001 15:14:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 27 Jul 2001 15:14:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Q9ET-0005mn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:08:53 +0100 Received: from smtp1.libero.it ([193.70.192.51]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Q9EQ-0005mi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 16:08:50 +0100 Received: from KOSOVEUALESSANDRO (151.25.44.136) by smtp1.libero.it (5.5.025) id 3AE980E70145210C for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 17:08:00 +0200 Message-ID: <005d01c116ad$fc527460$882c1997@KOSOVEUALESSANDRO> From: "Alessandro - IW3SGT" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000701c11693$d30665e0$0e2df7c2@zetnet.co.uk> Subject: LF: R: RS232 over optical fibre Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 17:08:25 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello, > I use a Psion 3c organiser to control a Lowe HF250 RX via a 1200 baud serial > link (no handshaking) for cave radio experiments. Unfortunately, the Psion > produces strong RFI on some frequencies. This seems to radiate from the > cable. I would like to try an optical cable isntead of a copper one. Can > anyone advise on choice of cable and interfaces please? I do not know the PSION 3c organizer, I use the RS232 optical interfaces made by CLE www.cle.sm for my EMC equipment. (data sheet: http://www.cle.sm/manopto.pdf ) Ciao Ale --------------------------------------------------------------- Alessandro Kosoveu IW3SGT - IV3-2161/TS P.O. BOX 238 - 34100 TRIESTE - ITALY e-mail: iw3sgt@qsl.net - iw3sgt@libero.it home page: http://www.qsl.net/iw3sgt --------------------------------------------------------------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28151 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2001 12:56:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Jul 2001 12:56:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 16076 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2001 12:55:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 27 Jul 2001 12:55:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Q70s-0004ZW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 13:46:42 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Q70r-0004ZR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 13:46:41 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15Q70C-0001s5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 13:46:00 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15Q70B-0003EM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 13:46:00 +0100 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 13:47:49 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Rugby back on X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF group, I was just about ready for another bout of 73kHz operating this weekend, to take advantage of the Rugby shutdown. But this morning there was a signal on 73.25kHz again, so it looks like mainenance must have been completed. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12677 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2001 12:24:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.services.quay.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Jul 2001 12:24:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 17741 invoked from network); 27 Jul 2001 12:24:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 27 Jul 2001 12:24:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Q6KR-0004Ci-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 13:02:51 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Q6KN-0004Cc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 13:02:47 +0100 Received: from abc (man-s143.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.45.14]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id f6RC23I08546 for ; Fri, 27 Jul 2001 13:02:03 +0100 Message-ID: <000701c11693$d30665e0$0e2df7c2@zetnet.co.uk> From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RS232 over optical fibre Date: Fri, 27 Jul 2001 13:00:28 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I use a Psion 3c organiser to control a Lowe HF250 RX via a 1200 baud serial link (no handshaking) for cave radio experiments. Unfortunately, the Psion produces strong RFI on some frequencies. This seems to radiate from the cable. I would like to try an optical cable isntead of a copper one. Can anyone advise on choice of cable and interfaces please? 73 de John Rabson G3PAI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16894 invoked from network); 26 Jul 2001 09:38:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Jul 2001 09:38:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 800 invoked from network); 26 Jul 2001 09:38:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Jul 2001 09:38:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15PhUP-0007TA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:31:29 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15PhUM-0007T5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:31:26 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v4.0.0.R) for ; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:29:20 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 10:29:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: 73kHz Message-ID: <3B5FF0FF.19349.502709@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Not sure if Rugby is still off the air, but I will be transmitting QRSS on 71.610kHz between 0830 and 0930 on Saturday morning. As usual reports are welcome. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21104 invoked from network); 26 Jul 2001 07:04:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Jul 2001 07:04:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 4967 invoked from network); 26 Jul 2001 07:03:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 26 Jul 2001 07:03:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Pf2S-00063W-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 07:54:28 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Pf2R-00063R-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 07:54:27 +0100 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15Pf1k-0004Zt-0A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Jul 2001 06:53:44 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B5FBFDE.FE6E8A@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 26 Jul 2001 07:59:42 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: G8RW and NTL QRM References: <3B5EB82D.31239.6CD794@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LFers Many thanks for all your comments and suggestions, which I relayed to Bob G8RW last night. Bob has been much encouraged by your remarks. Bob has already put a brand new blade in his hacksaw (- just kidding). Another letter is on its way to NTL; the RSGB EMC Committee has been contacted; and a noise canceller will be constructed, if necessary. It sure would be great if Bob could return to 136. Meanwhile, Bob can be still be contacted on 80 m QRP in the evenings (around 3.560 MHz). Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12274 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2001 15:27:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jul 2001 15:27:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 29562 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2001 15:26:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 25 Jul 2001 15:26:30 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15PQPB-0006NX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 16:16:57 +0100 Received: from [204.202.140.199] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15PQP7-0006NR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 16:16:53 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gomailjtp01 ([10.212.0.161]) by mta07.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GH100HADBQ13D@mta07.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 08:15:37 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 08:15:39 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Sexton" Subject: Re: LF: G8RW and NTL QRM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <597372.996074139665.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Mike, Having had NTL cable Digital Plus installed here some months back, I can confirm that no new QRM on 136 has been observed here that could be attributed to that service. I do not use the E-mail service however. Several other neighbours also have NTL digital cable TV and no problems from them. So I would agree that the QRM that G8RW is suffering from is probably a result of a faulty installation, probably the PACE box. I haven't got round to fitting ferrite rings on the power supply to that box because so far I have not found it necessary. What I did find was that the previous Sky analogue box generated a lot of QRM until I fitted ferrite rings to the mains cable. 73 John, G4CNN -----Original Message----- From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed Jul 25 04:14:37 PDT 2001 Subject: LF: G8RW and NTL QRM >GW4ALG wrote:>> Recent letters from G8RW describe continuing QRM problems on 136 >> kHz from an NTL cable television interface installed in a >> neighbour's house. > >I am using NTL for my analogue cable TV, and have no trouble at all. The >cables (one for radio and one for TV, are within three metres of my antenna. >At least two of my neighbours use NTL's high speed internet connection >(cable modem) and I have no problem with those either. I suspect, but don't >know for sure, that at least one neighbour has NTL digital cable. My belief is >that the distribution is done on glass fibre, with local feeds in coax. All of this >suggests that the installation near Bob is faulty, not inherently noisy. > >Bob's next move should be to contact the RSGB EMC Committee (see RSGB >Yearbook or the web site, or phone HQ). This is a free service to RSGB >members and at least two other LFers have already benefited from it. > >Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) >http://www.lf.thersgb.net > > ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2146 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2001 14:17:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jul 2001 14:17:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 20616 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2001 14:17:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Jul 2001 14:17:32 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15PPNF-0005ja-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 15:10:53 +0100 Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.40]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15PPNB-0005jV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 15:10:49 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.9.) id l.17.18fd2905 (7402) for ; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 10:09:32 -0400 (EDT) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <17.18fd2905.28902d1c@aol.com> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 10:09:32 EDT Subject: Re: LF: Update from Chepstow To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 107 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 7/25/01 10:03:22 AM GMT Daylight Time, steve@alg.demon.co.uk writes: << Recent letters from G8RW describe continuing QRM problems on 136 kHz from an NTL cable television interface installed in a neighbour's house. Bob has gone to great lengths to reduce this continuous source of S9 QRM. He has set up a new antenna feed arrangement, and designed a remote tuning system to get the antenna feedpoint away from the house. But the received noise is still very strong, such that even G4CNN is only just audible above the noise. The response from NTL has been poor: they have not even sent an engineer to investigate the problem. Naturally, this level of QRM means that Bob is virtually QRT on LF. >> Hi Steve Bob is not alone there. I'm responsible for 'Thames Radio' a local broadcast station here in West London. I had a call from the Radio Authority (the regulators) about unusually high signal levels outside the agreed service area. Apparently they could hear it in their Covent Garden offices off the back of a beam antenna. When I investigated, NTL had errected an antenna in front of, and slightly below our beam. and this was degrading the front to back ratio. Despite calls to NTL no action was forthcoming. After a while the site owner also gave up and decided to take a hacksaw to 3 vertical sections of the NTL antenna. Problem solved. Shame Bob can't also take some direct action. I wonder if it's the SMPSU powering the box and not the data itself. 73 David G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15431 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2001 11:49:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jul 2001 11:49:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 29792 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2001 11:48:57 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 25 Jul 2001 11:48:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15PN2a-0004Re-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:41:24 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.89]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15PN2Z-0004RZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:41:23 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from jalowe.demon.co.uk ([158.152.173.18]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15PN1t-000MGJ-0V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:40:42 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:39:07 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "J. Alan Lowe" Subject: LF: Local noise on 136kHz References: <3B5E8908.E135D569@alg.demon.co.uk> In-reply-to: <3B5E8908.E135D569@alg.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.01 U Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In message <3B5E8908.E135D569@alg.demon.co.uk>, Steve Rawlings writes >QRM at G8RW >----------- >Recent letters from G8RW describe continuing QRM problems on 136 >kHz from an NTL cable television interface installed in a >neighbour's house. Bob has gone to great lengths to reduce this >continuous source of S9 QRM. He has set up a new antenna feed >arrangement, and designed a remote tuning system to get the >antenna feedpoint away from the house. But the received noise is >still very strong, such that even G4CNN is only just audible >above the noise. I should imagine that a noise canceller, with phase and noise gain controls would be effective here - "an LF version of the JPS ANC-4" Has anyone built such a device for 136kHz/73kHz? Alan, G3XZX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1322 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2001 11:22:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jul 2001 11:22:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 12160 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2001 11:22:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 25 Jul 2001 11:22:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15PMeh-0004He-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:16:43 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15PMef-0004HX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:16:43 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v4.0.0.R) for ; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:14:42 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 12:14:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: G8RW and NTL QRM Message-ID: <3B5EB82D.31239.6CD794@localhost> In-reply-to: <3B5E8908.E135D569@alg.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: GW4ALG wrote: > Recent letters from G8RW describe continuing QRM problems on 136 > kHz from an NTL cable television interface installed in a > neighbour's house. I am using NTL for my analogue cable TV, and have no trouble at all. The cables (one for radio and one for TV, are within three metres of my antenna. At least two of my neighbours use NTL's high speed internet connection (cable modem) and I have no problem with those either. I suspect, but don't know for sure, that at least one neighbour has NTL digital cable. My belief is that the distribution is done on glass fibre, with local feeds in coax. All of this suggests that the installation near Bob is faulty, not inherently noisy. Bob's next move should be to contact the RSGB EMC Committee (see RSGB Yearbook or the web site, or phone HQ). This is a free service to RSGB members and at least two other LFers have already benefited from it. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5804 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2001 09:51:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jul 2001 09:51:02 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 23324 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2001 09:50:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 25 Jul 2001 09:50:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15PLFE-0003Pr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 10:46:20 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.88]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15PLFD-0003Pm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 10:46:20 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15PLEX-000Fje-0U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 10:45:37 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 08:55:00 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: Re: LF: W & G SPM-3 meter ?? In-reply-to: <000901c11421$06c47860$6f5d01d5@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alan Don't you mean 'nomble'? From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25454 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2001 09:09:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Jul 2001 09:09:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 2438 invoked from network); 25 Jul 2001 09:09:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 25 Jul 2001 09:09:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15PKUH-00030V-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 09:57:49 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15PKUD-00030Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 09:57:45 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15PKTX-000K2s-0Y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Jul 2001 09:57:04 +0100 Message-ID: <3B5E8908.E135D569@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 25 Jul 2001 09:53:28 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Update from Chepstow Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, General ------- There hasn't been much 'on air' LF activity from me recently - partly due to family commitments, and partly due to wind/rain/QRN affecting my ability to get on the band. But I have managed to get a second QRP TX built, and put it in a nice little box. Pictures can be seen at: http://www.alg.demon.co.uk/radio/136/qrptx.htm#boxed The Altoids tin is not just included for size comparison purposes - it is actually part of the transmitter! Additional constructional information, including options for making the low pass filter coils, have also been added to the web page. QRM at G8RW ----------- Recent letters from G8RW describe continuing QRM problems on 136 kHz from an NTL cable television interface installed in a neighbour's house. Bob has gone to great lengths to reduce this continuous source of S9 QRM. He has set up a new antenna feed arrangement, and designed a remote tuning system to get the antenna feedpoint away from the house. But the received noise is still very strong, such that even G4CNN is only just audible above the noise. The response from NTL has been poor: they have not even sent an engineer to investigate the problem. Naturally, this level of QRM means that Bob is virtually QRT on LF. Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26002 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2001 13:52:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jul 2001 13:52:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 17855 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2001 13:52:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 24 Jul 2001 13:52:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15P2Vz-0001oU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:46:23 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mserv1f.u-net.net ([195.102.249.207] helo=mserv1f.vianw.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15P2Vy-0001oP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:46:22 +0100 Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1f.vianw.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #5) id 15P2VQ-0002XB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:45:48 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v4.0.0.R) for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:35:59 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 14:35:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: ZS Message-ID: <3B5D87CD.6874.1286C6D@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From a magazine received here at RSGB, it appears the South Africans are pressing for a 136kHz allocation. This would be a really difficult path to Europe (all land and across the equator), but could be possible from South America, or VK. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1085 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2001 09:27:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jul 2001 09:27:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 17310 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2001 09:25:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 24 Jul 2001 09:25:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15OyKi-0007zA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 10:18:28 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15OyKg-0007z5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 10:18:27 +0100 Received: from [213.1.93.111] (helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #9) id 15OyK1-0002Ux-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 10:17:45 +0100 Message-ID: <000901c11421$06c47860$6f5d01d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: W & G SPM-3 meter ?? Date: Tue, 24 Jul 2001 00:00:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi has anyone got a spare meter for a Wandl and Goltermann SPM-3. I acquired one coutesy of Tracey but the meter glass had been broken. The glass was replaced but the meter sticks between 2 and 4 on the scale. I have tried one or two fixes unsuccessfully. I suspect rain got into the meter and there may be some rust in the magnet gap, which is catching the coil. I intend to strip the meter down but It would be nice to get a replacement in case I am unsuccessfull in completing a repair. (my eyesight is not as sharp and my fingers not as numble as they were about 40 years ago.) Thanks and Cheers de Alan, G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5905 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2001 08:54:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Jul 2001 08:54:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 12342 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2001 08:53:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 24 Jul 2001 08:53:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15OxlH-0007hJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:41:51 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from relay.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.49]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15OxlF-0007hE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:41:49 +0100 Received: (qmail 23278 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2001 09:39:14 +0100 Received: from trtnmail.dera.gov.uk (146.80.9.56) by relay.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 24 Jul 2001 09:39:14 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16696 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2001 09:43:08 +0100 Received: (ofmipd 192.5.29.90); 24 Jul 2001 08:42:46 -0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id JAA22236; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:46:50 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 24348 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2001 09:32:48 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 24 Jul 2001 09:32:48 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id JAA07113; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:21:04 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma007097; Tue, 24 Jul 01 09:20:42 GMT Received: from mailex.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:40:21 +0100 Received: (qmail 23037 invoked from network); 24 Jul 2001 08:29:34 +0100 Received: from softdnserror (HELO cchecker.dstl.gov.uk) (192.168.248.52) by mailex.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 24 Jul 2001 07:29:34 -0000 Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by cchecker.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.2) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 08:29:30 +0100 Received: by FRN-MAIL-R3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 24 Jul 2001 09:39:28 +0100 Date: 24 Jul 2001 09:39:27 +0100 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C563@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Amateur VLF DX MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > The "earth loop" antennas have their adherents, and seem > appealing because of the potentially large size possible. > > The simple radiation resistance formulae suggest that loops > should always lose out compared to verticals as the frequency > decreases (Rrad proportional to f^2 for a vertical, f^4 for a > loop), although any real situation is likely to be more > complex than this. Do any measurements of efficiency for this > type of antenna exist? > My feeling that ground loops may work out a lot better than may be first thought at VLF is based on several factors : The US submarine service uses them for ELF / ULF - at 60 to a few 100 Hz - and I always look first to what others have done before in the professional field. They usually get things mostly correct and saves reinventing wheels each time. The skin depth of soil at 9kHz varies from 28m in rich (high conductivity) pastoral soil to 90m is sand / rock, meaning that the vertical dimension of the loop becomes quite large. There is no problem whatsoever matching low frequencies to the inductive or resistive loads that a ground loop will present - it is the need for large inductors and high voltages that is the real killer (in all senses !) for wire antennas at these freqs. All that is needed is a lot of wire trailed out over the ground for a long distance. The 1/F^2 for E field vs 1/F^4 for loops works against us as antennas get small, but does mean that as the amount of copper goes up, the efficiency rises, to a simple approximation, as the fourth power of length so small improvements to antennas should give more dramatic results. My copper water pipe loop for 73kHz in its early days (2 turns of 10mm diamter pipe, 3m overall diameter), was only 10dB down on the 7m high tee so and much simpler to match to. The high circulating currents in the matching capacitors can be simply catered for by using banks of parallel capactitors in parallel. The water pipe antenna had 40A current in it and using 30 x 3.3nF 1700V caps in parallel they just got slightly warm at 200W G2AJV had considerable success on 73k with his large loop. Andy G4JNT -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11576 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2001 21:20:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jul 2001 21:20:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 23478 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2001 21:19:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Jul 2001 21:19:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15OmuE-0001hE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 22:06:22 +0100 Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.45]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15OmuD-0001h8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 22:06:21 +0100 Received: from j.stace ([62.255.224.149]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010723210307.YMNK288.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@j.stace> for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 22:03:07 +0100 Message-ID: <002001c113ba$de6b3fe0$95e0ff3e@stace> From: "john.stace" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3B5C0032.7155.7843A1@localhost> Subject: Re: LF: 73khz activity saturday morning. Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 22:02:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3XDV de G3CCH , Hello Mike . It seems most likely the station I heard was M0BMU . I would like to have a test with you if you could call me preferably between 0900 and 1030 with both normal cw and qrss say 10 mins each on a frequency of your choice . If you are not available mornings then I can be qrv any afternoon . You choose which day is most suitable for you.Wotsa? 73 John/g3cch. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6145 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2001 18:15:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jul 2001 18:15:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 23296 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2001 18:13:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Jul 2001 18:13:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Ok4N-0000Dd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 19:04:39 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Ok4L-0000DY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 19:04:38 +0100 Received: from ldsas04-68-119-66.cw-visp.com ([212.137.119.66] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15OjwK-0005nQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:56:21 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B5C5831.B6476F0A@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 18:00:33 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Case for a 500kHz Amateur Allocation References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John W Gould wrote: > At LF Forum events at the annual RSGB HF Convention and more recently at the > Friedrichshafen Hamfest 2001 a number of amateurs expressed interest in a > 500kHz allocation. I am thus fairly convinced that there is interest in such > an allocation. As a member of the RSGB HF Committee I have recently been > asked to see if I could put a case together for requesting such an > allocation. This e-mail is to ask for confirmation that amateurs would be > interested in experimenting on both technical and operating matter at > 500kHz. > > I would be grateful therefore for UK amateurs and SWLs to send me a brief > e-mail stating your interest, together with agreement that I can pass your > callsign/SWL number forward as part of a possible submission. > > Please send the response directly to me at g3wkl@btinternet.com and not the > reflector. > > Please do not set your expectations too high - this is very speculative! This desire to have a slot on 500 khz has been expressed by many radio amateurs before since the band was vacated by the marine service, although there are still a few stragglers about. I am surprised that the RSGB has not already approached the DTI/Radio about the possibility. I would be interested along with may others that I have spoken to, most of whom are not on email so they will not be able to contact you. They have expressed their interest to the RSGB via various sources in the past but nothing has materialised. Surprised at you interest since I have not heard you on any LF band. de G3KEV > > > 73 and regards > John Gould > G3WKL From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27857 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2001 17:05:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jul 2001 17:05:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 25898 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2001 17:03:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Jul 2001 17:03:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Oj1j-0008BJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:57:51 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Oj1i-0008BE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:57:50 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15Oj11-0003N2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:57:07 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15Oj10-0002FM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:57:06 +0100 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:58:53 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Re: Amateur VLF DX X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Stewart, LF group, Lowfers,

KK7KA wrote:
>Although the recent amateur VLF contacts were fairly short range, >I believe that DX operation is possible, perhaps even across the >pond.

It's an interesting idea, certainly.

About the ERP requirement - The ERP of SAQ has been measured to be around 10-20kW. 50dB down on this is 100 - 200mW. This is a pretty respectable ERP to be acheived on the 73kHz UK LF band, so is probably rather optimistic for 9kHz, without an exceptionally large TX antenna. I think 60 or 70dB down would be more realistic, unless you can get hold of a 100m high antenna.

The "earth loop" antennas have their adherents, and seem appealing because of the potentially large size possible. Although they are good for cave radio applications, I'm not so sure their effectiveness compared to the tuned vertical types has ever been demonstrated for "above ground" signals. The simple radiation resistance formulae suggest that loops should always lose out compared to verticals as the frequency decreases (Rrad proportional to f^2 for a vertical, f^4 for a loop), although any real situation is likely to be more complex than this. Do any measurements of efficiency for this type of antenna exist?

Audio amplifiers can be persuaded to work reasonably well for 136kHz, so 9kHz shouldn't be a problem. The tricky part is likely to be matching the amplifier output to the antenna reasonably efficiently. Rather big inductors and/or capacitors will be required to cope with the many kVA circulating in a resonant antenna at 9kHz. Voltage or current breakdown may well be the limiting factor on power for even quite large antennas - it is with moderate-sized ones at LF.

It is interesting to listen to the noise on 9kHz - compared to LF it is much more "crack le and pop" than "hiss", almost all the noise seems to be lightning transients. I once estimated it to be about 30uV/m, although it is hard to get a sensible measurement, due to it's impulsive nature. This was during winter time, when the noise level decreases considerably. I don't know if this might be important for designing a suitable modulation method.

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU






From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20480 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2001 17:00:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jul 2001 17:00:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 21297 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2001 16:59:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Jul 2001 16:59:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15OitP-00084R-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:49:15 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15OitO-00084M-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:49:14 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15Oisk-0003Gu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:48:34 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15Oisj-0002Ce-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:48:33 +0100 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 17:50:20 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: 73k Saturday morning X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF group, I was able to work G3AQC and G3YXM on Saturday morning - both were 569, and heard G3XDV 589. Conditions were much better than the night times, with much lower QRN. I had some problems - my loading coil continued to sag more and more, so I decided to stop before something disastrous happened. I have now made a much bigger, higher Q coil that does not get hot. Also, I had intermittent PSU problems , resulting in MCW with 100Hz modulation rather than CW coming out of the TX. BTW; I'm pretty certain that station G3CCH heard on 71.7kHz at 0920 was me! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25031 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2001 09:57:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jul 2001 09:57:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 26167 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2001 09:55:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 23 Jul 2001 09:55:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15OcIh-0004MH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:46:55 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15OcIg-0004MC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:46:55 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v4.0.0.R) for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:45:08 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:45:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: 73khz activity saturday morning. Message-ID: <3B5C0032.7155.7843A1@localhost> In-reply-to: <000a01c111d5$6ae9d4a0$a4dcff3e@stace> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > No stations identified , only one heard calling cq around 0920utc approx > 71.70Khz. Location here is North Lincs IO93QO. Who was it ? 73 John. I was on 71.610kHz at the time, but if Jim, M0BMU, was on you could have heard him. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22882 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2001 09:55:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Jul 2001 09:55:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 24558 invoked from network); 23 Jul 2001 09:54:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 23 Jul 2001 09:54:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15OcFF-0004Ll-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:43:21 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15OcFD-0004Lg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:43:20 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v4.0.0.R) for ; Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:41:56 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 23 Jul 2001 10:41:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Re: G3YXM 73kHz Message-ID: <3B5BFF72.11250.7554C8@localhost> In-reply-to: <005001c112f2$4f72e540$0100a8c0@home> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3YXM wrote: > Great to have a couple of X-band QSOs and apologies to anyone else who > called me that I didn't hear... lots of local QRM. I called you several times. Let me know when (if) the local QRM goes off. I will keep the station optimised for 73kHz until Rugby comes back on. Did anyone copy my QRSS beacon Sat/Sun morning on 71.610kHz? Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14461 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2001 21:06:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jul 2001 21:06:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 11398 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2001 21:05:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 22 Jul 2001 21:05:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15OQLU-000697-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 22:01:00 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15OQLT-000692-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 22:00:59 +0100 Received: from [217.35.42.90] (helo=mud) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #9) id 15OQKn-0003S9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 22:00:17 +0100 Message-ID: <005001c112f2$4f72e540$0100a8c0@home> From: "G3YXM" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: G3YXM 73kHz Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 22:07:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike > Very pleased to work Dave cross band 73/136kHz this morning. His signal > peaking 5.7.9.manual cw. My report to you was a bit mean... I later found that the (controlled rectifier) PSU for the TX was causing noise on 136 which made the sig-to-noise on your signal worse than it should have been. I normally don't hear it because the level of band noise on 136 is usually louder, but not with the aerial tuned to 73k! Great to have a couple of X-band QSOs and apologies to anyone else who called me that I didn't hear... lots of local QRM. Thanks also to John G3CCH for the report, I'm glad you heard my beacon, it was running at 2A aerial current whereas the QSOs were had at 3A, ie 3dB louder. I hope they take the whole allocated time until 30th to complete the Rugby maintenance! 73. Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5033 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2001 20:13:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jul 2001 20:13:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 6011 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2001 20:11:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 22 Jul 2001 20:11:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15OPRG-0005eV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 21:02:54 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15OPRC-0005eQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 21:02:53 +0100 Received: from boxernet.demon.co.uk ([194.222.47.214] helo=TRIXY) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15OPQT-000Etf-0W for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 21:02:06 +0100 From: "Michael Probert" To: "lf group" Subject: LF: G3YXM 73kHz Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 21:01:04 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello all, Very pleased to work Dave cross band 73/136kHz this morning. His signal peaking 5.7.9.manual cw. His report to me on 136, 5.6.9 with his antenna tuned. to 73kHz! He then worked Tom G3OLB XB also at good signal strengths both ways. Very many thanks Dave for interesting Qso. Best regards Mike GW4HXO. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 215 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2001 10:18:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jul 2001 10:18:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 4568 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2001 10:16:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 22 Jul 2001 10:16:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15OG8P-0000d3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 11:06:49 +0100 Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.46]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15OG8N-0000cy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 11:06:48 +0100 Received: from j.stace ([62.255.221.108]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010722100605.QICA295.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@j.stace> for ; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 11:06:05 +0100 Message-ID: <001501c11295$ea6e2a80$6cddff3e@stace> From: "john.stace" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 73Khz activity Sunday. Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 11:05:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
G3YXM de G3CCH. Dave, copied your signal on 73 Khz  1015 to 1030 , "73 de G3YXM"  RST 439 , No other stations heard.  I would like to listen for other stations if they would like to make a definite time/date. Please let me know either by E-mail or telephone 01724 343541. 73. John G3CCH.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6410 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2001 09:24:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Jul 2001 09:24:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 17784 invoked from network); 22 Jul 2001 09:23:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 22 Jul 2001 09:23:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15OFJC-0000Dl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 10:13:54 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.88]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15OFJ8-0000Dg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 10:13:51 +0100 Received: from boxernet.demon.co.uk ([194.222.47.214] helo=TRIXY) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15OFIQ-000IqS-0U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 22 Jul 2001 10:13:07 +0100 From: "Michael Probert" To: "lf group" Subject: LF: 73kHz G3YXM Date: Sun, 22 Jul 2001 10:12:05 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave, First time ever- hearing a signal on 72.8kHz. Aurally 5.5.9. Excellent copy Dave. Would like to work you X band. Will be about for next 2 hours or so. Time now 09.10 utc. 73 Mike GW4HXO. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10242 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2001 21:38:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jul 2001 21:38:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 6751 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2001 21:37:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Jul 2001 21:37:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15O4L7-0002xh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 22:31:09 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15O4L6-0002xc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 22:31:08 +0100 Received: from [213.122.191.159] (helo=presario1920) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #9) id 15O4KQ-0000Q5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 22:30:26 +0100 From: "John W Gould" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group@Blacksheep.Org" Subject: LF: Case for a 500kHz Amateur Allocation Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 22:35:42 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At LF Forum events at the annual RSGB HF Convention and more recently at the Friedrichshafen Hamfest 2001 a number of amateurs expressed interest in a 500kHz allocation. I am thus fairly convinced that there is interest in such an allocation. As a member of the RSGB HF Committee I have recently been asked to see if I could put a case together for requesting such an allocation. This e-mail is to ask for confirmation that amateurs would be interested in experimenting on both technical and operating matter at 500kHz. I would be grateful therefore for UK amateurs and SWLs to send me a brief e-mail stating your interest, together with agreement that I can pass your callsign/SWL number forward as part of a possible submission. Please send the response directly to me at g3wkl@btinternet.com and not the reflector. Please do not set your expectations too high - this is very speculative! 73 and regards John Gould G3WKL From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4616 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2001 20:36:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jul 2001 20:36:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 25214 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2001 20:35:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Jul 2001 20:35:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15O3KM-0002N9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 21:26:18 +0100 Received: from cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.171]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15O3KI-0002N4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 21:26:15 +0100 Received: from modem-76.durthang.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.162.204] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15O3Jb-0004Ho-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 21:25:31 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c11223$757769c0$cca2883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. 73KHz. this morning. Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 21:17:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi All,
Worked my best 73KHz DX this morning G3YXM Birmingham,
thanks Dave you were a very good signal on my NW/SE Ant.
Also worked Mike G3XDV on manual morse so thats another
good one.Thanks Mike. 73s Laurie. 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10653 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2001 19:00:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jul 2001 19:00:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 29990 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2001 18:59:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Jul 2001 18:59:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15O1u2-0001dE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 19:55:02 +0100 Received: from [200.36.112.5] (helo=chih.ch.cablemas.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15O1u0-0001d6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 19:55:01 +0100 Received: from JoseLuis ([207.249.148.252]) by chih.ch.cablemas.com (Netscape Messaging Server 4.15) with SMTP id GGU5ZB00.S2M for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 12:28:23 -0600 Message-ID: <002d01c11212$b1252f40$fc94f9cf@cablenet> From: "El Sauz" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: info. Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 12:26:43 -0600 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi :   Please HELP me in find information on "the
> >construction of a VLF direction    finding  receiver for man made VLF."

> >Thanks   Fernando Amaya   FAX 01152144703   E-Mail  elsauz@ch.cablemas
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3409 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2001 18:55:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jul 2001 18:55:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 28802 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2001 18:54:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Jul 2001 18:54:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15O1nf-0001ca-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 19:48:27 +0100 Received: from cobalt4.source.net ([206.100.10.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15O1n7-0001cV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 19:47:53 +0100 Received: from parissn2 (AMontsouris-101-1-4-162.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.253.216.162]) by cobalt4.source.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA18093; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 11:47:01 -0700 Message-ID: <013a01c11216$25afc020$0700000a@parissn2> From: "Stewart Nelson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, "LowFerQTH" Subject: LF: amateur VLF DX? Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 20:51:25 +0200 Organization: SC Group MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, Although the recent amateur VLF contacts were fairly short range, I believe that DX operation is possible, perhaps even across the pond. Please don't laugh, but I think that the very high stability of the path would permit operation at extremely low S/N, albeit at very low data rates. We all take for granted that when a signal is too weak, relative to the noise received with it, communication is impossible. Why can't you just send the information more slowly? Because you quickly reach a point where variations caused by the propagation path or equipment instability limit the narrowest bandwidth that can be used. Consider a QRSS system on 20 meters using an Rx bandwidth of 1 Hz and a 3 second dot time. Assume that the received signal is spread over 1 Hz by the propagation path. We need about +5 dB/Hz S/N for adequate copy. What to do if we only have -5 dB/Hz? Of course, we can use longer dots. But, since the path prevents us from narrowing the bandwidth, the dot time needs to be 300 seconds (with noncoherent averaging, the S/N only improves with the square root of the averaging time). And this could fail, if the path closes before the message is complete. But even with a stable path, you are out of luck at, say, -35 dB/Hz. The dot time would need to be 300,000,000 seconds (about ten years). On LF, it's much better, because the path spread is typically only a few millihertz. I'll use 0.01 Hz to keep the numbers simple. Our 300 seconds/dot will now work down to -15 dB per Hz, thanks to 0.01 Hz bandwidth. But below that level, averaging is again needed; -35 dB/Hz would still require dots about a month long. If you have an unusually stable skywave path, and excellent equipment, you could use 0.001 Hz BW, but you would still need dots lasting a few days. But at VLF the path is so stable that phase jitter is small, relative to the carrier period, except for shifts at sunrise and sunset. I don't understand the physics to know why this is so, but I'm pretty sure that it *is* so, because the (now defunct) Omega navigation system depended on it. A signal sent from New York to London will arrive with nearly the same phase delay on Tuesday morning, as it had on Monday morning. You could coherently integrate "forever". I don't have any figures for path loss or noise levels at VLF, so I'll start from the assumption that the signal from SAQ, using ordinary CW at about 10 bps, can be fairly reliably received across the Atlantic. It shouldn't be too hard for an amateur to generate a VLF signal 50 dB weaker than SAQ. The PA might be 200 W to 2 kW, compared with SAQ's 200 kW. An "earth loop" antenna might be 0.001 to 0.01 as efficient as SAQ's tower array. Depending on the "gain" of our antenna, we would use sufficient power to achieve the -50 dB relative level. Using coherent detection of BPSK or m-ary FSK gives a 6 dB advantage over OOK, and it should be easy to get another 4 dB from a suitable low rate ECC. Our overall system would then be "only" 40 dB too weak. Now, I believe that with external synchronization, we can make up the 40 dB by simply sending 10,000 times slower! 0.001 bps is not that bad. We can send a 15-character message in a day, and complete a QSO in three days. We don't have to wait for good propagation, because it's always about the same. If there is bad QRN for a while, we can just ignore that period. A possible Tx rig would feed the output from a PC sound card, through a high power audio amplifier and impedance matching device, to the antenna. The audio signal would also be fed back into one sound card input channel, and the 1 PPS signal from a GPS receiver into the other. Software would periodically adjust the phase of the Tx signal to keep it in step with GPS. The receiver would consist of a tuned loop and preamp feeding one sound card channel, with the 1 PPS from GPS feeding the other. The software LO would be kept locked to GPS, and a phase adjustment to compensate for diurnal variation would be added. The result would be used to demodulate the incoming signal. In the US, I believe that AC below 9 kHz is not considered to be "RF" at all, so it would be easy for this type of Tx to meet the Part 15 requirements. The Tx would be classified as an "incidental radiator" or, if the computer were included, an "unintentional radiator". Those radiated emission limits start at 30 MHz; it shouldn't be hard to keep harmonics above the 3000th within the spec :) . Of course, the device must also not cause any harmful interference. Is there any reason why this won't work? Are my estimates reasonable? I'll be back in Reno in about a week and would like to give this a try. 73, Stewart KK7KA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13519 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2001 11:20:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Jul 2001 11:20:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 10653 invoked from network); 21 Jul 2001 11:18:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Jul 2001 11:18:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Nucs-0006OP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 12:08:50 +0100 Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.43]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Nucr-0006OK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 12:08:49 +0100 Received: from j.stace ([62.255.220.164]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010721110807.QSIK298.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@j.stace> for ; Sat, 21 Jul 2001 12:08:07 +0100 Message-ID: <000a01c111d5$6ae9d4a0$a4dcff3e@stace> From: "john.stace" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 73khz activity saturday morning. Date: Sat, 21 Jul 2001 12:07:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
No stations identified , only one heard calling cq around 0920utc approx 71.70Khz. Location here is North Lincs IO93QO. Who was it ? 73 John.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12517 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2001 23:04:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jul 2001 23:04:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 28806 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2001 23:03:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Jul 2001 23:03:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15NjA8-0000Dq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 23:54:24 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp7vepub.gte.net ([206.46.170.28] helo=smtp7ve.mailsrvcs.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15NjA7-0000Dk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 23:54:23 +0100 Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-117-76.bellatlantic.net [151.200.117.76]) by smtp7ve.mailsrvcs.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA46445025; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 22:53:09 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B58B6E5.5F13096C@bellatlantic.net> Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 18:55:33 -0400 From: "Andre Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Beaumont 12-14 October 2001 References: <3B56F39F.3858.11C12B1@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by smtp7ve.mailsrvcs.net id WAA46445025 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike Dennison wrote: > > I will pass this on to those concerned, please do, as we LF enthusiasts are people too, you know... (They would not want to be involved as defendants in a lawsuit based on discrimination against LF persons, would they?) > but I have to say that there are two lectures on > 136kHz, both covering the transatlantic DX area: > > The 136 kHz Transatlantic QSOs - Peter Dodd, G3LDO > LF solar disturbance and 136 kHz propagation - Alan Melia, G3NYK Great subjects. Now that starts being interesting :-) > Did these not make the publicity leaflet? not that I am aware of, :-( 73 André N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17204 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2001 16:12:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jul 2001 16:12:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 9611 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2001 16:11:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Jul 2001 16:11:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15NcnB-0005MT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 17:06:17 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Ncn7-0005MO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 17:06:14 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15NcmS-0003gU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 17:05:32 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15NcmS-0004pX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 17:05:32 +0100 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 17:07:15 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: 73kHz X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Will be QRV on 73kHz tomorrow (Saturday) morning, starting around 0800utc, Rugby permitting. QRG will be somewhere near the bottom of the band, depending on who else is there. I will probably try for some cross-band contacts as well. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25912 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2001 14:08:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jul 2001 14:08:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 23360 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2001 14:07:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Jul 2001 14:07:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Napx-0004IS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:01:01 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Napt-0004IN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 15:00:57 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v4.0.0.R) for ; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 14:53:53 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 14:53:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: 73kHz Message-ID: <3B5845FE.28331.1379D39@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: It was strangely quiet on 73kHz last night with the Rugby signal off the air. I could hear all sorts of carriers and SMPSU noises that I had not heard for years. To give an idea of how huge the Rugby signal is, my 's-meter' reads S9+60 compared to Jim, M0BMU, some 12km away who is just S9, and G3AQC who doesn't move the 'meter' at all. The sideband noise level from Rugby moves the 'meter' to S3-5 (depending on whether it is using both data channels) at the bottom of the band. Managed a QRSS contact with G3AQC, my 10th station worked two-way on the band. I will be active on 71.610kHz, mainly QRSS, tonight and over the weekend until Rugby returns. If I send 'KX', instead of 'K' at the end of a CQ, I will be checking my own frequency, then looking for crossband calls on 137.700kHz +/- 20Hz. All reports are welcome. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23344 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2001 11:07:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jul 2001 11:07:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 12635 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2001 11:06:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Jul 2001 11:06:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15NY1Z-0002kx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 12:00:49 +0100 Received: from fep01.swip.net ([130.244.199.129] helo=fep01-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15NY1T-0002ks-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 12:00:43 +0100 Received: from W98 ([212.151.110.119]) by fep01-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20010720110119.SIIQ21692.fep01-svc.swip.net@W98> for ; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 13:01:19 +0200 Message-ID: <000c01c1110b$199e4600$776e97d4@W98.swipnet.se> From: "C Andersson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: SV: Re: Re.60khz etc. Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 12:59:50 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: (I2PHD) >Strong QRN (30 dB over S9) due to a nearby thunderstorm >prevented me from seeing anything on 71.61kHz Nothing seen here either /sm6pxj From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17667 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2001 09:46:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jul 2001 09:46:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 13481 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2001 09:45:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Jul 2001 09:45:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15NWkD-0001yS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:38:49 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15NWkA-0001yN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:38:46 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15NWjV-0006Md-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:38:05 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15NWjV-0000b0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:38:05 +0100 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:39:48 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: 73kHz last night X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, 73kHz had an extremely high level of QRN last night, which rather nullified the benefits of Rugby being QRT. However, I was able to work G3AQC using normal CW, and copy G3XDV of course. Thanks also to G4CNN for the report. I usually find that the best conditions on 73k occur in the mornings, with both QRN and QRM at their lowest levels then. Rugby was still QRT this morning, but the QRN level was still quite high. If 73.25kHz remains off the air, how about Saturday morning? Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1255 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2001 09:02:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Jul 2001 09:02:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 4786 invoked from network); 20 Jul 2001 09:01:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Jul 2001 09:01:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15NVzE-0001Yx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 09:50:16 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06lmsgate-3.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15NVzA-0001YV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 09:50:12 +0100 Received: from d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.147]) by d06lmsgate-3.uk.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id JAA134166 for ; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 09:39:41 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (ss4.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.69]) by d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v4.96) with ESMTP id f6K8mjA191840 for ; Fri, 20 Jul 2001 09:48:46 +0100 Message-ID: <3B57F036.F64FDB30@usa.net> Date: Fri, 20 Jul 2001 10:47:50 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Re.60khz etc. References: <002801c1106f$c47fab00$fe79883e@g3aqc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Strong QRN (30 dB over S9) due to a nearby thunderstorm prevented me from seeing anything on 71.61kHz I was curious to see if my loop, when tuned to that freq., had enough capture area for UK signals on this band... but no luck (this time) 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7299 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2001 19:33:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jul 2001 19:33:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 17229 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2001 19:32:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Jul 2001 19:32:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15NJLm-00034d-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 20:20:42 +0100 Received: from [204.202.140.199] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15NJLl-00034U-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 20:20:41 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gomailjtp01 ([10.212.0.161]) by mta07.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GGQ00KIUJ07HB@mta07.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 12:19:19 -0700 (PDT) Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 12:19:21 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Sexton" Subject: LF: 73 kHz tonight To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <4334039.995570361930.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Laurie, Jim and Mike, Despite high level of QRN good copy of QSO between Laurie and Jim at 19.00 UTC. M0BMU 559 G3AQC 569 Laurie distinctly stronger here in Reading. I found narrow CW filter helped enormously to combat the QRN. Heard and saw Mike's QRSS beacon earlier. By ear only 339 Using Argo perfect and strong copy. 73 John, G4CNN ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9001 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2001 17:21:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jul 2001 17:21:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 24682 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2001 17:20:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Jul 2001 17:20:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15NHOh-0001x2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 18:15:35 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15NHOg-0001vt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 18:15:34 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15NHO1-00001P-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 18:14:53 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15NHO1-0004Dk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 18:14:53 +0100 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 18:16:34 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: 73kHz This evening X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Mike, Laurie, LF Group, Power cuts and floppy loading coils permitting, I will be QRV this evening on 73kHz - probably by around 1900utc, starting at the lower band edge and moving up in frequency as neccessary. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2723 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2001 16:39:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jul 2001 16:39:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 23179 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2001 16:38:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Jul 2001 16:38:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15NGeH-0001ZP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 17:27:37 +0100 Received: from cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.177]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15NGeC-0001Vj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 17:27:32 +0100 Received: from modem-126.arathorn.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.121.254] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15NGdT-0007x7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 17:26:47 +0100 Message-ID: <002801c1106f$c47fab00$fe79883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re.60khz etc. Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 17:27:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi Mike and all,
I will look for you this evening . Perhaps we can have that QSO.
My freq 71.612 if  I see you QRSS .I will also beacon on 71.922
QRSS 30 sec dots from 2100 to 2200.UTC.  73s Laurie. 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12280 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2001 14:11:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jul 2001 14:11:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 7349 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2001 14:10:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Jul 2001 14:10:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15NEMe-00006u-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:01:16 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15NEMd-00006n-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:01:15 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v4.0.0.R) for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:59:20 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:59:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: RE: 60 khz Message-ID: <3B56F5C4.28609.124740B@localhost> In-reply-to: <3B56D1EB.D41817C2@usa.net> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Mike Dennison wrote: > > If the 73k transmission is off tonight, I will be active on the band using CW > > and QRSS. Any reports/QSOs would be appreciated. [...] > > Which QRG and QTR ? > > 73 Alberto I2PHD 71.610kHz from 1800UTC to about 2100. Some of this will be beaconing. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3436 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2001 14:08:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jul 2001 14:08:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 19361 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2001 14:07:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Jul 2001 14:07:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15NEMd-00006o-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:01:15 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15NEMZ-00006h-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 15:01:11 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v4.0.0.R) for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:50:10 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:50:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Beaumont 12-14 October 2001 Message-ID: <3B56F39F.3858.11C12B1@localhost> In-reply-to: <3B56CAD0.EE921E4A@bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Just received in the mail the RSGB's advance information leaflets re the > 12-14 October meeting in Windsor. > There was *no* mention whatsoever of anything LF, in spite of the > interest generated, last year, by our LF exhibits, lectures, > demonstrations and participation. > Will RSGB management ever recognize LF as something different? > André Kesteloot N4ICK Andre, I will pass this on to those concerned, but I have to say that there are two lectures on 136kHz, both covering the transatlantic DX area: The 136 kHz Transatlantic QSOs - Peter Dodd, G3LDO LF solar disturbance and 136 kHz propagation - Alan Melia, G3NYK Did these not make the publicity leaflet? Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18320 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2001 12:47:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jul 2001 12:47:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 7711 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2001 12:46:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Jul 2001 12:46:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ND8Q-00080K-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 13:42:30 +0100 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ND8P-0007zV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 13:42:29 +0100 Received: from [213.122.226.206] (helo=dave) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #9) id 15ND7k-00070d-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 13:41:48 +0100 Message-ID: <000b01c11050$7d0b3880$cee27ad5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <6433909.995483447600.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp01> Subject: LF: Re: MSF 60kHz unavailability Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 13:43:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC 73kHz operators should note that the 73.4kHz Rugby transmission is also off during the maintenance period. 73s Dave dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14104 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2001 12:44:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jul 2001 12:44:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 5117 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2001 12:42:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Jul 2001 12:42:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ND4K-0007uQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 13:38:16 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp4vepub.gte.net ([206.46.170.25] helo=smtp4ve.mailsrvcs.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ND4J-0007uL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 13:38:15 +0100 Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-117-219.bellatlantic.net [151.200.117.219]) by smtp4ve.mailsrvcs.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA53898952; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 12:37:01 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B56CAD0.EE921E4A@bellatlantic.net> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 07:56:00 -0400 From: "Andre Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Beaumont 12-14 October 2001 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by smtp4ve.mailsrvcs.net id MAA53898952 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Just received in the mail the RSGB's advance information leaflets re the 12-14 October meeting in Windsor. There was *no* mention whatsoever of anything LF, in spite of the interest generated, last year, by our LF exhibits, lectures, demonstrations and participation. Will RSGB management ever recognize LF as something different? 73 André Kesteloot N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17296 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2001 12:35:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jul 2001 12:35:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 28320 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2001 12:34:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Jul 2001 12:34:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15NCux-0007ml-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 13:28:35 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15NCut-0007mg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 13:28:31 +0100 Received: from d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.147]) by d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.COM (1.0.0) with ESMTP id NAA41490 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 13:08:40 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (ss3.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.68]) by d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v4.96) with ESMTP id f6JCRCV144826 for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 13:27:13 +0100 Message-ID: <3B56D1EB.D41817C2@usa.net> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 14:26:19 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: 60 khz References: <3B56D036.32490.91BE5E@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike Dennison wrote: > [...] > If the 73k transmission is off tonight, I will be active on the band using CW > and QRSS. Any reports/QSOs would be appreciated. > [...] Which QRG and QTR ? 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 685 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2001 12:09:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jul 2001 12:09:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 5231 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2001 12:08:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Jul 2001 12:08:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15NCS7-0007by-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 12:58:47 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15NCS3-0007bt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 12:58:44 +0100 Received: from ldsas01-65-116-50.cw-visp.com ([212.137.116.50] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15NCK8-0001DE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:50:33 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B56BC74.9C7EA728@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:54:44 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: ZL-VE ERP? References: <3B54679F.25427.19404B8@localhost> <3.0.1.16.20010718102308.30f72d06@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik Strobbe wrote: > >Mike G3XDV, > > > >The ZL6QH erp was approximately 1 watt when VE7SL received us around his > >sunrise on 30 June. The ZL6QH long wire antenna has been optimised for 160 > >and 80 metre contesting, and is a compromise for LF transmission. > > > >73, Bob > > Hello Bob, > > experience on136kHz showed that long horizontal wires can put out very > strong skywaves. > ie. OH1TN and DJ9IE use long horizontal wires and are amongst the strongest > signals here. > Reino (OH1TN) is using a 1/4 wave horizontal wire and has a very strong > signal all over Europe despite the fact that he is running only 100W output. According to the qsl info from OH1TN he is using a 28 metre VERTICAL with a 500 metre top section. This is a top loaded vertical antenna and not a long wire. G3KEV > > > So you antenna might be more than just a compromize > > 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19824 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2001 11:42:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jul 2001 11:42:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 10261 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2001 11:41:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Jul 2001 11:41:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15NC1P-0007La-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 12:31:11 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15NC1O-0007LV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 12:31:10 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v4.0.0.R) for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 12:19:04 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 12:19:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: RE: 60 khz Message-ID: <3B56D036.32490.91BE5E@localhost> In-reply-to: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C55A@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Also means the 73kHz is off, they share masts. And the 16kHz signal is > probably coming from somewhere else. If the 73k transmission is off tonight, I will be active on the band using CW and QRSS. Any reports/QSOs would be appreciated. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15969 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2001 11:40:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jul 2001 11:40:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 8663 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2001 11:39:17 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Jul 2001 11:39:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15NC0e-0007LT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 12:30:24 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.89]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15NC0a-0007LO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 12:30:20 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from pickmere.demon.co.uk ([158.152.117.143]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15NBzl-000Jop-0V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 12:29:35 +0100 Message-ID: <4e08NGA1CrV7EwLP@pickmere.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 19 Jul 2001 11:04:37 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M.J.Powell" Subject: Re: LF: RE: 60 khz References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C55A@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> In-reply-to: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C55A@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In message <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C55A@pdw-mail- r1.dstl.gov.uk>, Andrew Talbot writes >It is only off for maintenance. They usually fire it up for a few hours >during the night to resynchronise clocks during these annual antenna >cleaning sessions. But not last night obviously - my MSF clock was showing >24 hours without a signal this morning. > >Also means the 73kHz is off, they share masts. And the 16kHz signal is >probably coming from somewhere else. Criggion? Mike -- M.J.Powell From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 860 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2001 09:53:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Jul 2001 09:53:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 12782 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2001 09:52:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Jul 2001 09:52:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15NADA-0006IJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 10:35:12 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from relay.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.49]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15NAD8-0006ID-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 10:35:10 +0100 Received: (qmail 2116 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2001 10:32:38 +0100 Received: from trtnmail.dera.gov.uk (146.80.9.56) by relay.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 19 Jul 2001 10:32:38 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26887 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2001 10:36:23 +0100 Received: (ofmipd 192.5.29.90); 19 Jul 2001 09:36:01 -0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id KAA24002; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 10:40:00 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 23573 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2001 08:39:36 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 19 Jul 2001 08:39:35 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id IAA07745; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:28:17 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma007743; Thu, 19 Jul 01 08:28:15 GMT Received: from mailex.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with SMTP id for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:47:06 +0100 Received: (qmail 3472 invoked from network); 19 Jul 2001 07:36:44 +0100 Received: from softdnserror (HELO cchecker.dstl.gov.uk) (192.168.248.52) by mailex.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 19 Jul 2001 06:36:44 -0000 Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by cchecker.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.2) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 07:36:43 +0100 Received: by FRN-MAIL-R3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 19 Jul 2001 08:46:33 +0100 Date: 19 Jul 2001 08:46:27 +0100 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C55A@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: 60 khz MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: It is only off for maintenance. They usually fire it up for a few hours during the night to resynchronise clocks during these annual antenna cleaning sessions. But not last night obviously - my MSF clock was showing 24 hours without a signal this morning. Also means the 73kHz is off, they share masts. And the 16kHz signal is probably coming from somewhere else. Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: gii3kev [mailto:gii3kev@netscapeonline.co.uk] > Sent: 2001-07-18 18:19 > To: rsgb rsgb > Subject: LF: 60 khz > > > It seems that the 60 khz time standard tx has gone qrt, more > unreliability for those depending on it for clock control. Maybe I > should have bought a clock that works from a foreign tx source or GPS. > De G3KEV > > > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13080 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2001 20:21:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jul 2001 20:21:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 3051 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2001 20:20:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 18 Jul 2001 20:20:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MxkV-00082G-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 21:16:47 +0100 Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.42]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MxkV-00082B-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 21:16:47 +0100 Received: from compaq ([62.253.45.73]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010718201601.YUZQ294.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@compaq> for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 21:16:01 +0100 Message-ID: <006701c10fc6$7a43f5e0$a130fd3e@compaq> From: "Tracey Gardner" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: 60 khz Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 20:17:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From the NPL Time and frequency web page http://www.npl.co.uk/npl/ctm/msfoutages.html The annual maintenance of the BT Rugby 60 kHz MSF transmitter system will be from: 1300 BST on Monday 16 July 2001 to: 1300 BST on Monday 30 July 2001 During this period it is likely that the service will be interrupted, although these outages will be kept to a minimum. The service will be restored overnight between 2000 BST and 0800 BST whenever possible. >It seems that the 60 khz time standard tx has gone qrt, more >unreliability for those depending on it for clock control. Maybe I >should have bought a clock that works from a foreign tx source or GPS. >De G3KEV > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28462 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2001 19:24:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jul 2001 19:24:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 11870 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2001 19:23:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 18 Jul 2001 19:23:41 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Mwrt-0007Vf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 20:20:21 +0100 Received: from [204.202.140.199] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Mwrs-0007Va-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 20:20:21 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gomailjtp01 ([10.212.0.161]) by mta07.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GGO0063KNXXJG@mta07.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 12:10:45 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 12:10:47 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Sexton" Subject: LF: MSF 60kHz unavailability To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <6433909.995483447600.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, For those who are unaware of the maintenance program, MSF annual maintenance is undertaken in July. German DCF77 and Swiss HBG services also have down times for maintenance. Their schedules are also published. The MSF Annual Maintenance Period in 2001 The annual maintenance of the BT Rugby 60 kHz MSF transmittersystem will be from: 1300 BST on Monday 16 July 2001 to: 1300 BST on Monday 30 July 2001 During this period it is likely that the service will be interrupted, although these outages will be kept to a minimum. The service will be restored overnight between 2000 BST and 0800 BST whenever possible. For MSF outages see: http://www.npl.co.uk/npl/ctm/msfoutages.html John, G4CNN ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8803 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2001 18:36:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jul 2001 18:36:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 4284 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2001 18:34:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 18 Jul 2001 18:34:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Mw07-00070Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 19:24:47 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Mw03-00070J-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 19:24:43 +0100 Received: from ldsas06-70-121-52.cw-visp.com ([212.137.121.52] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15MvsC-0007Zs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 18:16:36 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B55C518.9BEF7BFE@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 18:19:20 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: 60 khz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: It seems that the 60 khz time standard tx has gone qrt, more unreliability for those depending on it for clock control. Maybe I should have bought a clock that works from a foreign tx source or GPS. De G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20741 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2001 13:27:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jul 2001 13:27:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 10437 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2001 13:26:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 18 Jul 2001 13:26:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MrCA-0004P9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 14:16:54 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MrC6-0004P4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 14:16:50 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v4.0.0.R) for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 14:11:17 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 14:11:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Re: ZL-VE ERP? Message-ID: <3B559903.14295.1405BA@localhost> In-reply-to: <3B555D88.31547.676E9F@localhost> References: <002001c10ef6$b8a43f00$23b51bca@xtr743187> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > ....This has just missed the deadline for this week's GB2RS bulletin Actually I managed to get it into next Sunday's news, published on the RSGB members web site today, and the public site http://www.rsgb.org on Friday. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13947 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2001 09:33:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jul 2001 09:33:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 11917 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2001 09:32:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 18 Jul 2001 09:32:54 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MndZ-0002T0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:28:57 +0100 Received: from [204.202.140.198] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MndY-0002Sv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:28:56 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gomailjtp01 ([10.212.0.161]) by mta06.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GGN005JPWSZLC@mta06.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 02:24:35 -0700 (PDT) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 02:24:37 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Sexton" Subject: Re: LF: Re: VK, ZL LF allocation To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <2243851.995448277381.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, The following stations are allocated to this range of frequencies: 171 Russian transmitter at Kaliningrad 1.2MW well received here 171 Lvov, Ukraine. 1MW (not heard) 171 Osipovicy, Bielo Russia. 1MW (not heard) 171 Moscow, Russia. 500kW (not heard) 171 Nador, Morocco. 1.2kW (not heard) 171.875 TV Line Oscillator harmonic (heard) 177 "Deutschlandradio Berlin" Zehlendorf/Oranienburg (100kW 13E24/52N48) strong station here 180 Ankara, Turkey. 1.2MW heard 183 Europe 1 (Saarlouis 2MW 06E41/49N17) very strong here 186 Iceland (not heard) 187.5 TV Line Oscillator harmonic (heard) 188.5 "RAI Due" Caltanisetta/sicily 10kW 14E04/37N30 heard 189 Iceland Broadcast (reported active) 189 Belogorsk, Russia. 1.2MW heard In addition 162 TDF, Allouis (Radio France Inter) 2MW is a strong station in Europe. The one to avoid is Europe 1, Saarlouis, which uses an enhanced mode of amplitude modulation with wide sidebands. 73, John, G4CNN -----Original Message----- From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue Jul 17 12:42:58 PDT 2001 Subject: LF: Re: VK, ZL LF allocation >Jim M0BMU,> >Thanks for the preliminary information on quieter parts of the 165 - 190 kHz >band. > >> Mike's request for info reminds me - A while ago, I tried listening >> around 184.4 kHz, where the recent "transpac" tests occured, but >> this frequency is full of very strong LF broadcast station >> sidebands, as is most of 165kHz - 190kHz. But there was a gap in >> the general din around 169 - 173kHz that might be worth trying for >> VK/ZL to Europe LF tests one day - do others have a quiet spot >> here too? Would it be any good for the VK/ZL stations? > >ZL stations are permitted to transmit anywhere within 165 - 190 kHz, and >what counts most is using frequencies that have minimum QRM at DX receiving >stations. Several slots are needed to cope with a number of ZL and VK >participating stations, some of them having good frequency control and >others that drift a few Hz. > >The next scheduled "transpac" testing is 22 September. If EU stations can >agree on what the quietest slots are in the 169 - 173 kHz region are, then >they can be checked for reception in the greater Pacific area as well, and >appropriate new frequencies selected. I have been co-ordinating the test >schedule and will use feedback from EU receiving checks to discuss with ZL >and VK participants for picking optimum test frequencies for next time. > >73, Bob > > ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22056 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2001 09:29:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jul 2001 09:29:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 29733 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2001 09:28:34 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 18 Jul 2001 09:28:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MnYr-0002MF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:24:05 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MnYq-0002M9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:24:04 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA744888 for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 11:23:22 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010718102308.30f72d06@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:23:08 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: ZL-VE ERP? In-reply-to: <002001c10ef6$b8a43f00$23b51bca@xtr743187> References: <3B54679F.25427.19404B8@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >Mike G3XDV, > >The ZL6QH erp was approximately 1 watt when VE7SL received us around his >sunrise on 30 June. The ZL6QH long wire antenna has been optimised for 160 >and 80 metre contesting, and is a compromise for LF transmission. > >73, Bob Hello Bob, experience on136kHz showed that long horizontal wires can put out very strong skywaves. ie. OH1TN and DJ9IE use long horizontal wires and are amongst the strongest signals here. Reino (OH1TN) is using a 1/4 wave horizontal wire and has a very strong signal all over Europe despite the fact that he is running only 100W output. So you antenna might be more than just a compromize 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18860 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2001 09:07:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jul 2001 09:07:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 4365 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2001 09:06:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 18 Jul 2001 09:06:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MnD8-0002DJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:01:38 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MnD4-0002DE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 10:01:35 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v4.0.0.R) for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 09:57:30 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 09:57:28 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Re: ZL-VE ERP? Message-ID: <3B555D88.31547.676E9F@localhost> In-reply-to: <002001c10ef6$b8a43f00$23b51bca@xtr743187> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > The ZL6QH erp was approximately 1 watt when VE7SL received us around his > sunrise on 30 June. The ZL6QH long wire antenna has been optimised for 160 and > 80 metre contesting, and is a compromise for LF transmission. Bob, Thanks. This has just missed the deadline for this week's GB2RS bulletin, but I will do a write-up for next week. It looks like this was a really good achievement. My gut feeling is that skywave at 185kHz would be better than at 136kHz, but I couldn't quantify it or even explain the mechanisms involved. Has anyone any thoughts on how these results might tell us something about practical ranges at 136kHz? Congratulations, again, to those concerned. Presumably, the next aim is to get a whole callsign through, but it gets my vote already if what was received was unambiguously ZL6QH. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4668 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2001 07:48:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Jul 2001 07:48:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 12936 invoked from network); 18 Jul 2001 07:47:13 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 18 Jul 2001 07:47:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Mlvo-0001Pg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 08:39:40 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from gateg.kw.bbc.co.uk ([132.185.132.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Mlvk-0001Pa-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 08:39:36 +0100 Received: from sunf0.rd.bbc.co.uk (ddmailgate.rd.bbc.co.uk [132.185.128.104]) by gateg.kw.bbc.co.uk (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f6I7ctC18443 for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 08:38:55 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from pc523 by sunf0.rd.bbc.co.uk; Wed, 18 Jul 01 08:38:55 BST Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010718083854.010833e0@pop3> X-Sender: simonlh@pop3 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 08:38:54 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Simon Lloyd-Hughes" Subject: Re: LF: ZL-VE ERP? In-reply-to: <3B54679F.25427.19404B8@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Have you looked in the ARRL news sheet. There was some info in there but I suspect not enough. At 16:28 17/07/01 +0100, you wrote: >Is there any more information about the successful ZL-VE tests? I would like >to run a story on the RSGB's GB2RS news service which has a wide >coverage, thanks to the Internet, but I have not yet seen any answer to my >earlier question about antenna and RF levels (preferably ERP). > >It is vital to have this sort of detail to make a useful comparison with what may >be possible at 136kHz. For instance, 0.2W ERP at 185kHz might bear >comparison with 1W ERP at 136kHz, but 2W ERP at 185k would be quite >different - an achievement, nevertheless. I am surprised that I haven't seen >this info anywhere (perhaps I missed it). Some additional info was promised, >but I haven't seen that either. > >This could be a good news story and I am in an excellent position to spread >the word, but it is currently incomplete. Can anyone supply the missing >ingredient? > > > >Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) >http://www.lf.thersgb.net > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18878 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 19:46:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 19:46:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 27188 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 19:45:12 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 19:45:12 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Main-0003xt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 20:41:29 +0100 Received: from galahad.joust.net ([63.108.136.2] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Maim-0003xo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 20:41:28 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from benny-hill (m7-137-133.joust.net [63.108.137.133]) by galahad.joust.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f6HJekE03683 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:40:46 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <200107171940.f6HJekE03683@galahad.joust.net> Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:40:40 -0400 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Steve Dove" Subject: Re: LF: VK, ZL LF allocation X-Mailer: Opera 5.02 build 856a X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Jim, This 'gap' may not last long; there is a Dutch LW station slated for 171kHz, if they ever get a station together. They were I believe chased off land by conservationists and last I heard going to put an array up in the North Sea(!) off Walcheren, but were still being hounded by "Friends Of The Seagulls" or such. Bad enough with what's already there, and with DRM on the horizon and LongWave allocations looking mighty attractive to broadcasters again, it doesn't look good for usage of the 'Part 15' frequencies. Cheers, Steve W3EEE 7/17/2001 6:05:04 PM, "James Moritz" wrote: >Dear LF group, > >Mike's request for info reminds me - A while ago, I tried listening >around 184.4 kHz, where the recent "transpac" tests occured, but >this frequency is full of very strong LF broadcast station >sidebands, as is most of 165kHz - 190kHz. But there was a gap in >the general din around 169 - 173kHz that might be worth trying for >VK/ZL to Europe LF tests one day - do others have a quiet spot >here too? Would it be any good for the VK/ZL stations? > >Cheers, Jim Moritz >73 de M0BMU > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12447 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 19:45:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 19:45:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 23114 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 19:44:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 19:44:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MaiG-0003xm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 20:40:56 +0100 Received: from pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MaiF-0003xh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 20:40:55 +0100 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.181.179]) by pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010717194706.BFJZ6085457.pop1-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 07:47:06 +1200 Message-ID: <003501c10ef8$c7011620$23b51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: VK, ZL LF allocation Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 07:42:58 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jim M0BMU, Thanks for the preliminary information on quieter parts of the 165 - 190 kHz band. > Mike's request for info reminds me - A while ago, I tried listening > around 184.4 kHz, where the recent "transpac" tests occured, but > this frequency is full of very strong LF broadcast station > sidebands, as is most of 165kHz - 190kHz. But there was a gap in > the general din around 169 - 173kHz that might be worth trying for > VK/ZL to Europe LF tests one day - do others have a quiet spot > here too? Would it be any good for the VK/ZL stations? ZL stations are permitted to transmit anywhere within 165 - 190 kHz, and what counts most is using frequencies that have minimum QRM at DX receiving stations. Several slots are needed to cope with a number of ZL and VK participating stations, some of them having good frequency control and others that drift a few Hz. The next scheduled "transpac" testing is 22 September. If EU stations can agree on what the quietest slots are in the 169 - 173 kHz region are, then they can be checked for reception in the greater Pacific area as well, and appropriate new frequencies selected. I have been co-ordinating the test schedule and will use feedback from EU receiving checks to discuss with ZL and VK participants for picking optimum test frequencies for next time. 73, Bob From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15604 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 19:31:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 19:31:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 13115 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 19:30:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 19:30:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MaTx-0003pd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 20:26:09 +0100 Received: from mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MaTw-0003pY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 20:26:09 +0100 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.181.35]) by mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010717192454.NUVM3874492.mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Wed, 18 Jul 2001 07:24:54 +1200 Message-ID: <002001c10ef6$b8a43f00$23b51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3B54679F.25427.19404B8@localhost> Subject: LF: Re: ZL-VE ERP? Date: Wed, 18 Jul 2001 07:27:58 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike G3XDV, The ZL6QH erp was approximately 1 watt when VE7SL received us around his sunrise on 30 June. The ZL6QH long wire antenna has been optimised for 160 and 80 metre contesting, and is a compromise for LF transmission. 73, Bob From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14534 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 18:03:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 18:03:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 8823 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 18:02:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 18:02:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MZ5E-00034B-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 18:56:32 +0100 Received: from aninka.qdnet.pl ([195.116.13.1]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MZ5D-000346-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 18:56:31 +0100 Received: from tt (unverified [212.244.254.114]) by aninka.qdnet.pl (EMWAC SMTPRS 0.83) with SMTP id ; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 19:50:04 +0200 Message-ID: <000d01c10ee9$86f422c0$1400000a@tt> From: translations@qdnet.pl To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Odp: ELF Antennas - ground loops tested. Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 19:54:29 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Antirelay: Good relay from local net4 212.244.0.0/16 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hmmm, the Russians had a nice idea, run 63km as feeder as use the earth itself an an aerial! see sites suggested by this guy Richard Hill, Warsaw (ex G6GGE).... 76 and 82Hz respectively - signals have been received by amateurs, too - have a look at: http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/c3i/elf.htm http://www.vlf.it/zevs/zevs.htm http://www.vlf.it/submarine/sbmarine.html Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7534 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 17:29:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 17:29:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 4392 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 17:28:02 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 17:28:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MYVD-0002oL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 18:19:19 +0100 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MYVC-0002oG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 18:19:18 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (233.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.233]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6HHIbm31150 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 18:18:38 +0100 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010717181619.00a2e1c0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 18:18:13 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: Re: LF: ELF Antennas - ground loops tested. In-reply-to: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C558@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.go v.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 14:51 17/07/01 Tuesday, Andy G4JNT wrote: >..................................................It would certainly seem >that loops were considered the way to go at low frequencies. There are no >apocryphal tales of km high metal towers with megavolts on them ! No, but I vaguely remember somebody trying out a barrage balloon flying at 10,000 ft ! Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23374 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 16:51:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 16:51:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 13892 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 16:49:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 16:49:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MXy3-0002XJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 17:45:03 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MXy2-0002XE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 17:45:02 +0100 Received: from abc (man-s287.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.45.158]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id f6HGiKg28050 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 17:44:21 +0100 Message-ID: <001c01c10edf$777d97e0$9e2df7c2@zetnet.co.uk> From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C558@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> Subject: LF: Re: (E)LF Antennas - railway lines Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 17:40:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Talbot" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 17, 2001 2:51 PM Subject: LF: ELF Antennas - ground loops tested. > Presumably other ideas for antennas were also tried back then. > Some years ago, with permission from the railway company concerned, some tests were done in Wansford Tunnel on the Nene Valley Railway. The tunnel is 550 metres long and straight, 7 metres high and 7.5 metres wide. It runs through oolitic limestone and is lined with Victorian brick. It contains two standard gauge railway tracks, one of which runs only about 150 metres into the tunnel and is used in winter to store rolling stock in the dry. John Hey's cave radios on 87 kHz worked well from one end of the tunnel to the other, using loop aerials. It made no difference whether the loops were placed between the running rails or at the side of the tunnel, or in the 6 foot space between the two tracks. A full write-up appeared in: Rabson, John (1998), Underground Radio Tests on the Nene Valley Railway, CREGJ 32, p27, Jun 98. If anyone would like to know more about these tests, I would be happy to talk to them on 01394 460298 or via email, word.factory@zetnet.co.uk. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28318 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 16:10:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 16:10:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 164 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 16:09:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 16:09:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MXKR-00029o-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 17:04:07 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MXKQ-00029j-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 17:04:06 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15MXJm-0006IP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 17:03:26 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15MXJl-0000vz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 17:03:25 +0100 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 17:05:04 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: VK, ZL LF allocation X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF group, Mike's request for info reminds me - A while ago, I tried listening around 184.4 kHz, where the recent "transpac" tests occured, but this frequency is full of very strong LF broadcast station sidebands, as is most of 165kHz - 190kHz. But there was a gap in the general din around 169 - 173kHz that might be worth trying for VK/ZL to Europe LF tests one day - do others have a quiet spot here too? Would it be any good for the VK/ZL stations? Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11990 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 15:43:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 15:43:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 3170 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 15:36:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 15:36:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MWod-0001rv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 16:31:15 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MWoa-0001rq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 16:31:12 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v4.0.0.R) for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 16:28:18 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 16:28:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: ZL-VE ERP? Message-ID: <3B54679F.25427.19404B8@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Is there any more information about the successful ZL-VE tests? I would like to run a story on the RSGB's GB2RS news service which has a wide coverage, thanks to the Internet, but I have not yet seen any answer to my earlier question about antenna and RF levels (preferably ERP). It is vital to have this sort of detail to make a useful comparison with what may be possible at 136kHz. For instance, 0.2W ERP at 185kHz might bear comparison with 1W ERP at 136kHz, but 2W ERP at 185k would be quite different - an achievement, nevertheless. I am surprised that I haven't seen this info anywhere (perhaps I missed it). Some additional info was promised, but I haven't seen that either. This could be a good news story and I am in an excellent position to spread the word, but it is currently incomplete. Can anyone supply the missing ingredient? Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20429 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 15:05:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 15:05:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 13055 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 15:04:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 15:04:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MWHG-0001St-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:56:46 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MWHF-0001So-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:56:45 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15MWGa-0004gc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:56:04 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15MWGZ-0000Cl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:56:03 +0100 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:57:43 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: ELF Antennas - ground loops tested. X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Andy, LF Group, There is quite a bit of info around on the US and Russian ELF systems on 76 and 82Hz respectively - signals have been received by amateurs, too - have a look at: http://www.fas.org/nuke/guide/usa/c3i/elf.htm http://www.vlf.it/zevs/zevs.htm http://www.vlf.it/submarine/sbmarine.html Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3906 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 14:45:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 14:45:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 7784 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 14:44:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 14:44:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MW0p-0001K4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:39:47 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MW0o-0001Jx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:39:46 +0100 Received: from d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.147]) by d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.COM (1.0.0) with ESMTP id PAA89730 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:20:00 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (ss10.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.76]) by d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v4.96) with ESMTP id f6HEcWR125080 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:38:33 +0100 Message-ID: <3B544DC0.DF84AE61@usa.net> Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 16:37:52 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: ELF Antennas - ground loops tested. References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C558@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > [...] > Readers of Tom Clancy's "The Hunt for Red October" can work out that the US > do indeed have something like this ! The commemorative transmission from > GBR a few weeks ago also formally clears the fact that we use 16kHz for our > comms links - hopefully I will no longer have to use the word allegedly when > stating this. > [...] Not only the US do have such a system. For a page on the subject, with pointers and photos, you can look here : http://www.vlf.it/submarine/sbmarine.html 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5013 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 14:14:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 14:14:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 8895 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 14:13:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 14:13:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MVT6-00013O-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:04:56 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from relay.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.49]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MVT2-00013J-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:04:52 +0100 Received: (qmail 2508 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 15:02:28 +0100 Received: from trtnmail.dera.gov.uk (146.80.9.56) by relay.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 15:02:28 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16232 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 15:06:08 +0100 Received: (ofmipd 192.5.29.90); 17 Jul 2001 14:05:46 -0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id PAA00275; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:09:44 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 24008 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 14:56:07 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 14:56:07 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id OAA14843; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 14:44:57 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma014730; Tue, 17 Jul 01 14:44:08 GMT Received: from mailex.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:02:22 +0100 Received: (qmail 28917 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 13:52:10 +0100 Received: from softdnserror (HELO cchecker.dstl.gov.uk) (192.168.248.52) by mailex.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 12:52:10 -0000 Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3 (unverified) by cchecker.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.2) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 13:52:10 +0100 Received: by FRN-MAIL-R3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <356X2SYW>; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 15:01:53 +0100 Date: 17 Jul 2001 14:51:59 +0100 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C558@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: ELF Antennas - ground loops tested. MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I did hear from a non attributable source in the academic world that at one time there was a proposal in this country to use the third rail of the railway network as an antenna for ELF/ULF communications. But he was not able to recall if any actual tests were ever made of this medium. For readers outside the UK (and those living in the north of the country who have overhead powered electric trains) the third rail supplies power for the railway in the Southern part of the UK. It is a system that dates back to the 1950s (I think) and runs at about 700 Volts DC - presumably at a few thousand Amps for the larger commuter trains. Not very efficient, there are transformers and rectifier houses every few km along the track. Return current is via the normal tracks at ground potential. The network provides a well insulated mass of metal which could be either loaded against ground or turned into massive horizontal loops. This assumes that the difficulties of providing the electrical isolation between the railway power, the railway signalling and transmit signals could be organised. The presence of trains on the track would also presumably affect the tuning ! I also heard that a test was once made (sometime in the 1960s) using a spare power station, running at a frequency other than 50 Hz, loaded into a section of high voltage power grid shorted to ground at the far end. Wonder what they did about phase balance ? I don't know how successful these tests were, but at least they did actually happen. Presumably other ideas for antennas were also tried back then. The fact that we do not use ULF/ELF for submarine comms suggests that either the tests were unsuccessful, or, more likely, we did not need the sort of communications that ULF/ELF would give, ie. world wide, very low data rate with deep submerged vessels. Readers of Tom Clancy's "The Hunt for Red October" can work out that the US do indeed have something like this ! The commemorative transmission from GBR a few weeks ago also formally clears the fact that we use 16kHz for our comms links - hopefully I will no longer have to use the word allegedly when stating this. It would certainly seem that loops were considered the way to go at low frequencies. There are no apocryphal tales of km high metal towers with megavolts on them ! Andy G4JNT -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24016 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 12:24:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 12:24:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 14645 invoked from network); 17 Jul 2001 12:22:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Jul 2001 12:22:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MTga-00002w-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 13:10:44 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MTgW-00002r-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 13:10:40 +0100 Received: from abc (man-s324.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.45.195]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id f6HC9wn17088 for ; Tue, 17 Jul 2001 13:09:58 +0100 Message-ID: <000201c10eb9$25b2d4a0$c32df7c2@zetnet.co.uk> From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3B5351E5.C2E4D1DF@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: 9 khz antennas Date: Tue, 17 Jul 2001 06:20:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: "gii3kev" To: "rsgb rsgb" Sent: Monday, July 16, 2001 9:43 PM Subject: LF: 9 khz antennas > Hi All > Although wires lying on the ground and using the earth spiked in a > mumber of places has been tried on the higher LF freqs 73 and 136 khz > and found to be useless ??? see http://www.wireless.freeserve.co.uk/dielect.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8317 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2001 21:54:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jul 2001 21:54:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 5006 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2001 21:53:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Jul 2001 21:53:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MGDV-0001Nu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 22:47:49 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MGDR-0001Np-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 22:47:45 +0100 Received: from ldsas02-66-117-198.cw-visp.com ([212.137.117.198] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15MG5d-0004lD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:39:41 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B5351E5.C2E4D1DF@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:43:17 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: 9 khz antennas Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All Although wires lying on the ground and using the earth spiked in a mumber of places has been tried on the higher LF freqs 73 and 136 khz and found to be useless this approach would probably work after a fashion on 9 khz and probably better than trying to load a vertical a few metres high with all the associated high voltages if trying to run moderate power out of a few hundred watts. One approach could be to use farmers electric fencing techniques, small low stakes anything from a few inches to a couple of feet high above ground with appropriate insulators at the top of the stakes and use insulated copper wire as well for double insulation. Position as many stakes/rods as possible around the garden, field, or along the road side grass verge and run out as much wire as possible. Keep the wire taught and off the ground and use as the antenna fed against a few spikes driven into the ground and interconnected. It still does not make a good long haul antenna but at this frequency anything is worth trying. If you make the antenna system too efficient at this frequency think of all the qrm to all the HIFI/Stereo listeners in your area. Use your dog as a receiver their ears will resonate at this frequency, causing them to bark synchronised with your cw. Check the near field with your own dog and the far field with the neighbours dog a mile or two down the road!!!!!!!!!!! 73 de G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11707 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2001 21:22:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jul 2001 21:22:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 650 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2001 21:21:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Jul 2001 21:21:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MFbk-0000zv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 22:08:48 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MFbg-0000zq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 22:08:44 +0100 Received: from ldsas10-74-125-90.cw-visp.com ([212.137.125.90] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15MFTr-0003Pv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:00:40 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B5348E1.78ADC784@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:04:49 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: recent References: <005d01c10d6a$173c3240$ac2dfd3e@compaq> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Tracey Gardner wrote: > Hi Mal > > I managed to get hold of an SPM-19 manual from an outfit in Coventry > last year. > Have a word with, > > "Keith Morris" Thanks Tracy for the info. This one of mine seems to have a FM detector rather than AM or SSB etc with selectivity from 1.5 khz down to 25 hz. Will check it out soon on the scope when I get time. Looks useful for 73 and 136 khz. 73 de Mal/G3KEV/SCARBOROUGH > > > 73s Tracey G5VU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16301 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2001 20:12:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jul 2001 20:12:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 14526 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2001 20:11:41 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 16 Jul 2001 20:11:41 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MEZx-0000SY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:02:53 +0100 Received: from pcow035o.blueyonder.co.uk ([195.188.53.121] helo=blueyonder.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15MEZt-0000ST-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:02:50 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from rob.twickenham.freeserve.co.uk ([62.30.62.19]) by blueyonder.co.uk with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.687.68); Mon, 16 Jul 2001 21:01:59 +0100 Message-ID: <4.3.2.7.2.20010715202937.00acebf0@pop.freeserve.net> X-Sender: twickenham.freeserve.co.uk@pop.freeserve.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 4.3.2 Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 21:01:47 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rob Gill" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Near field of 9kHz antenna IV In-reply-to: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C555@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.go v.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The late John Taylor G0AKN was having some success with an earth loop antenna at audio frequencies in 1999 (-albeit without the assistance of an NOV!). With an transmitting earth base of several hundred metres and a receiving earth base of 200m he transmitted slow CW at 6kHz over a distance of 6.6 miles. Details can be found on his web site which remains at http://www.wireless.freeserve.co.uk/ Sadly his illness precluded further work at these frequencies although it seemed likely that much greater range was possible provided that a low noise receive site could be found. Even in rural areas noise pick up from power lines seems to be a big problem at these frequencies. Earth current antennas of this type have also proved effective in LF cave communications, yielding significantly better results than the small multi turn inductive loops which earlier cave radio designs employed. DX is a relative expression however! Communication over ranges in excess of 500metres is considered pretty good -though that is through rock..... 73 Rob G8DSU ................. At 09:43 16/07/01 +0100, you wrote: >For our garden sized antennas I think that resonating a wire is completely >impractical at these frequencies. What I intend looking at, (if a 9kHz >NoV ever happens :-( is something like a ground loop. I'm basing the >idea on the US Submarine comms experience at ELF / ULF. (Have a look on >the web at Project Sanguine I think its called) If a really long wire is >laid out at low elevation - just lying on the ground even - then fed >against a real earth connection then a ground loop will be set up. There >will probably not even be a need to ground the far end. With a skin >depth, particularly in low conductivity ground, measured in 10s or 100s of >metres then quite a large loop will result. > >I know ground loops were tried on 73kHz, with only moderate sucess, but >the much lower frequency ought to improve the efficacy of the >system. Even in my urban plot, it will be possible to lay out several >hundred metres of wire by just trailing it over the garden wall and along >a grass verge by the road. I'll be limited in wire length only by >roundabouts where the verge stops. > >Andy G4JNT > >>>>The corrected figures are even more dramatic than for the loop. >>>> >>>>To feed 1kW into the 180m high 15mm copper pipe the current must be >>>>154A and the voltage on the antenne becomes 2.5MV! Perhaps the pipe >>>>would survive the current but the voltage makes the system completely >>>>unrealistic (corona). >>>> >>>>And what would the required 286mH loading coil for that voltage and >>>>current look like ... > > >-- >The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence >is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). >For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, >or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is >prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2001 10:33:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jul 2001 10:33:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 24290 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2001 10:32:26 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Jul 2001 10:32:26 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15M5ZY-0003ol-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 11:25:52 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15M5ZV-0003og-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 11:25:49 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id MAA76736 for ; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 12:25:07 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010716112456.2acf7454@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 16 Jul 2001 11:24:56 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Near filed of 9kHz antenna III In-reply-to: <000b01c10c3d$d6f7ffc0$e22875d5@w8k3f0> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Dick & group, >AO computes the feedpoint impedance as 0.042 - j16189 ohm. >Because efficiency is 26.4% the radiation resistance is 0.264 * 0.042 = 11 >milli-ohm. Using the simple formula for a short vertical : Rs = 40*(Pi*L/W)^2 where L = annena length and W = wavelength the radiation resistance for a 180m high vertical at 9kHz is 11.5 milliOhm And taking a antenna capacitance of 6pF/m the total capacitance is 1080pF or 16374 Ohm at 9kHz. So the simple formulas seem to work quite well, even at VLF. Another thing : I like Andy's idea about ground-loops. Maybe we can put out some signal without handing many 100kV. I believe that others have tested some kind of ground dipoles too (VK2ZTO ?). 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25112 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2001 09:05:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Jul 2001 09:05:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 6261 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2001 09:04:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Jul 2001 09:04:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15M48t-0002zK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 09:54:15 +0100 Received: from relay.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.49]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15M48o-0002zF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 09:54:11 +0100 Received: (qmail 2938 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2001 09:51:48 +0100 Received: from trtnmail.dera.gov.uk (146.80.9.56) by relay.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 16 Jul 2001 09:51:48 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 6007 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2001 09:55:26 +0100 Received: (ofmipd 192.5.29.90); 16 Jul 2001 08:55:04 -0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id JAA10769; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 09:59:01 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 19623 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2001 09:45:29 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 16 Jul 2001 09:45:29 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id JAA17021; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 09:34:24 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma016973; Mon, 16 Jul 01 09:33:50 GMT Received: from mailex.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with SMTP id for ; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 09:52:09 +0100 Received: (qmail 31539 invoked from network); 16 Jul 2001 08:42:03 +0100 Received: from softdnserror (HELO cchecker.dstl.gov.uk) (192.168.248.52) by mailex.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 16 Jul 2001 07:42:03 -0000 Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3 (unverified) by cchecker.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.2) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 08:42:03 +0100 Received: by FRN-MAIL-R3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <356X2K9P>; Mon, 16 Jul 2001 09:51:42 +0100 Date: 16 Jul 2001 09:43:42 +0100 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C555@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Near field of 9kHz antenna IV MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
For our garden sized antennas I think that resonating a wire is completely impractical at these frequencies.  What I intend looking at, (if a 9kHz NoV ever happens :-(   is something like a ground loop.  I'm basing the idea on the US Submarine comms experience at ELF / ULF. (Have a look on the web at Project Sanguine I think its called)   If a really long wire is laid out at low elevation - just lying on the ground even - then fed against a real earth connection then a ground loop will be set up.  There will probably not even be a need to ground the far end.   With a skin depth, particularly in low conductivity ground, measured in 10s or 100s of metres then quite a large loop will result.
 
I know ground loops were tried on 73kHz, with only moderate sucess, but the much lower frequency ought to improve the efficacy of the system.   Even in my urban plot, it will be possible to lay out several hundred metres of wire by just trailing it over the garden wall and along a grass verge by the road.   I'll be limited in wire length only by roundabouts where the verge stops.
 
Andy  G4JNT
 
The corrected figures are even more dramatic than for the loop.
 
To feed 1kW into the 180m high 15mm copper pipe the current must be 154A and the voltage on the antenne becomes 2.5MV! Perhaps the pipe would survive the current but the voltage makes the system completely unrealistic (corona).
 
And what would the required 286mH loading coil for that voltage and current look like ...


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 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13854 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2001 20:24:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jul 2001 20:24:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 17794 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2001 20:23:07 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Jul 2001 20:23:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15LsLV-0004xc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 21:18:29 +0100 Received: from k2.pncl.co.uk ([212.35.226.183]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15LsLU-0004xX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 21:18:28 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (173.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.173]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f6FKHlE24068 for ; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 21:17:47 +0100 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010715210846.00a39ec0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 21:11:28 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: Re: LF: RE: Near field of 9kHz antenna II In-reply-to: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C553@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.go v.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 15:52 13/07/01 Friday, Andy G4JNT wrote: >Come on, there must be someone out there who understands and can apply >Maxwells equations :-) > >Andy G4JNT Andy, why don't you try Messrs Hately/Khabbary? Seems they're the only ones who REALLY understand what radio propagation's all about - see their latest ad in "Radcom".......................... Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 225 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2001 20:17:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jul 2001 20:17:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 14076 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2001 20:15:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Jul 2001 20:15:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15LsDy-0004qD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 21:10:42 +0100 Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.43]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15LsDg-0004q8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 21:10:24 +0100 Received: from compaq ([62.253.45.172]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010715200939.JWEF298.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@compaq> for ; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 21:09:39 +0100 Message-ID: <005d01c10d6a$173c3240$ac2dfd3e@compaq> From: "Tracey Gardner" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: recent Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 21:09:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Mal I managed to get hold of an SPM-19 manual from an outfit in Coventry last year. Have a word with, "Keith Morris" 73s Tracey G5VU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12062 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2001 18:32:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jul 2001 18:32:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 14128 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2001 18:31:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Jul 2001 18:31:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15LqXs-0003va-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 19:23:08 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.201.52.152]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15LqXo-0003vV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 19:23:04 +0100 Received: from ldsas03-67-118-62.cw-visp.com ([212.137.118.62] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 15LqPp-0006SL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 18:14:51 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B51CF79.B7B1FFF5@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 18:14:34 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: recent Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All on LF Recently purchased equipment includes Wandel and Goltemann: SPM12- Selektiver Pegelmesser (Level Meter) 200 hz - 6mhz ---------- LD 30 - Group Delay and Attenuuation measurement set 0.2 - 20 khz (tx/rx) (useful for 9 khz tx) --------- Siemens D2155 PEGELMESSER (level meter) 200 hz - 620 khz 20 hz and 3.1 khz filter usb/lsb. All equipment working fb although there are no handbooks available, a logical approach reveals the operating procedures. If anyone has any info about the above devices please let me know. The equipment was purchased with LF activities in mind. 73 de Mal/G3KEV/SCARBOROUGH From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9482 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2001 09:24:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jul 2001 09:24:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 26618 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2001 09:23:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Jul 2001 09:23:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Li3Z-0007k2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 10:19:17 +0100 Received: from lepidachrosite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Li3Y-0007jx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 10:19:16 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 (Rogue.Cartoons.dialin.freeler.nl [212.26.212.88]) by lepidachrosite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 1B276CB0B7 for ; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 09:16:39 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <003501c10d0f$e8050c40$58d41ad4@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <004501c10cb2$a8fab840$828801d4@g4jnt> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Near field of 9kHz antenna IV Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 11:23:21 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
To All from PAoSE
 
Andy, G4JNT wrote:
 
Wait a minute !
 
 I = SQR(W / R)   so current in the loop = 51.2A and voltage at the feed is this current in the 60 ohms reactance, ie.  3077V
 
Andy  G4JNT
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Dick Rollema <d.w.rollema@freeler.nl>
To All from PA0SE
AO gives the feed point impedance as Z = 0.380 + j60.1 ohm and the efficiency as 0.03%.
 
So for 1 kW fed into the loop the current must be SQR(0.380 * 1000) = 19.5A.
 
The voltage at the feed point becomes 19.5 * 0.380 = 1172V.
 
 
Thanks Andy!
 
I made the same stupid mistake in my message nr. III on this subject (14-07-01  10.37)
 
The corrected figures are even more dramatic than for the loop.
 
To feed 1kW into the 180m high 15mm copper pipe the current must be 154A and the voltage on the antenne becomes 2.5MV! Perhaps the pipe would survive the current but the voltage makes the system completely unrealistic (corona).
 
And what would the required 286mH loading coil for that voltage and current look like ...
 
73, Dick, PAoSE
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25762 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2001 08:30:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Jul 2001 08:30:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 1391 invoked from network); 15 Jul 2001 08:29:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Jul 2001 08:29:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Lh9U-0007Cu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 09:21:20 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Lh9T-0007Cp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 09:21:19 +0100 Received: from abc (man-s247.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.45.118]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id f6F8KWW30722 for ; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 09:20:33 +0100 Message-ID: <000901c10d06$d678f260$762df7c2@zetnet.co.uk> From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <004601c10cb2$a9e5b480$828801d4@g4jnt> Subject: LF: GBR (was 9kHz NOVs) Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 09:18:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Talbot" To: Sent: Saturday, July 14, 2001 11:16 PM Subject: LF: Re: re 9kHz NOVs > Rugby at one time in its > history running a few 10s of kW was reckoned to have 500000 Volts on its > antenna. > Sounds a bit high. According to Watt (VLF Radio Engineering, end of chapter 2), Rugby is voltage-limited below about 21 kHz. From the figures he gives for the post-1958 configuration I estimate the feed current as 500 to 600 A. If I interpret his graphs correctly, the reactance of the aerial (and therefore of the resonating helix) is about 200 ohms. This indicates a maximum voltage on the top hat in the region of 100 to 120 kV. One of Watt's graphs shows a figure of 165 kV as the voltage-limited figure for the original 8-tower array. 73 de John Rabson G3PAI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4842 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2001 22:24:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jul 2001 22:24:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 12855 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2001 22:23:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Jul 2001 22:23:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15LXjy-00024e-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 23:18:22 +0100 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15LXjw-00024Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 23:18:21 +0100 Received: from [212.1.136.130] (helo=g4jnt) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15LXWT-0008KW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 23:04:25 +0100 Message-ID: <004501c10cb2$a8fab840$828801d4@g4jnt> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Re: Near field of 9kHz antenna IV Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 23:03:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Wait a minute !
 
 I = SQR(W / R)   so current in the loop = 51.2A and voltage at the feed is this current in the 60 ohms reactance, ie.  3077V
 
Andy  G4JNT
 
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Dick Rollema <d.w.rollema@freeler.nl>
To All from PA0SE
AO gives the feed point impedance as Z = 0.380 + j60.1 ohm and the efficiency as 0.03%.
 
So for 1 kW fed into the loop the current must be SQR(0.380 * 1000) = 19.5A.
 
The voltage at the feed point becomes 19.5 * 0.380 = 1172V.
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7199 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2001 22:24:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jul 2001 22:24:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 12873 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2001 22:23:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Jul 2001 22:23:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15LXkI-00024l-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 23:18:42 +0100 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15LXkH-00024g-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 23:18:41 +0100 Received: from [212.1.136.130] (helo=g4jnt) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15LXWU-0008KW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 23:04:27 +0100 Message-ID: <004601c10cb2$a9e5b480$828801d4@g4jnt> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: re 9kHz NOVs Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 23:16:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alan - We need to be realistic about the types of inductor feasible for transmitters at this frequency. With an antenna capacitance of 270pF and inductor of 1.2H or so at 9kHz, the number of turns needed to prevent core saturation will be astronomical for realistic power levels - gaps will only help to get the inductance back down for the number of turns needed. It is volt . turns that saturate cores, gaps have nothing to do with preventing saturation of inductors at AC, they just allow the inductance to be defined. With a reactance in the region of 80k ohms, only a fraction of an Amp will give many kV on the antenna. Apparantly, Rugby at one time in its history running a few 10s of kW was reckoned to have 500000 Volts on its antenna. I sent my NoV application in via RSGB Licensing Advisory Committee. ie Sent it via Julian Gannaway, G3YGF, who is persuing it with the RA. He lives just 6km away from me and is interested in LF himself - in fact was one end of my very early record setting distances on 73kHz before everyone started coming on with their big antennas. I've started long term monitoring of the Earth's mag field now. The old 286 laptop is in the shed recording the magnetometer output every 5 minutes. Andy 'JNT -----Original Message----- From: Alan Melia To: LF-Group Date: 14 July 2001 22:20 Subject: LF: re 9kHz NOVs >Hi Andy, if you think it might help the cause.....where did you apply to?? >and I will prepare an application as well. You wont be able to do real >experimentation unless there are a spread of operational stations for >reports etc. > >As to 1.4H coils try measuring the inductance of some old audio >transformers, and mod transformers, maybe the odd C-core power transformer. >I think you might find them in the right kind of range, though you may need >an air gap (??) I have a torroidal line transormer (100v line..... I think >its called) from an old slave audio amp that looks about right, and is >certainly good to about 40kHz. Insulation could be another problem though !! > >Cheers de Alan G3NYK >Alan.Melia@btinternet.com > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7017 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2001 22:24:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jul 2001 22:24:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 5573 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2001 22:23:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Jul 2001 22:23:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15LXji-00024X-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 23:18:06 +0100 Received: from smtp2.ihug.co.nz ([203.109.252.8] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15LXjg-00024S-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 23:18:04 +0100 Received: from p150 (p55-max6.chc.ihug.co.nz [203.173.225.119]) by smtp2.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id KAA11875 for ; Sun, 15 Jul 2001 10:17:19 +1200 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp2.ihug.co.nz: Host p55-max6.chc.ihug.co.nz [203.173.225.119] claimed to be p150 Message-ID: <008701c10cb1$d4c7e7a0$77e1adcb@p150> From: "Dave Brown" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001601c10cae$921cfa60$b48c01d4@g4jnt> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Near field effects Date: Sun, 15 Jul 2001 10:10:44 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: Andrew Talbot To: Sent: Sunday, July 15, 2001 9:47 AM Subject: LF: Re: Near field effects snip > However, this is for a short, basically E field, antenna. My gut feeling > is that a magnetic antenna such as a loop would behave in the opposite way > and the H field would roll off much faster than the E field. snip I'm fairly sure you're correct Andy- and I think there's an excellent summary statement of all this in the first chapter or two of that EMC measurements book that Marconi put out a few years back. 73 Dave, ZL3FJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27490 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2001 21:57:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jul 2001 21:57:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 22873 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2001 21:56:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Jul 2001 21:56:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15LXH1-0001nq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 22:48:27 +0100 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15LXH0-0001nl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 22:48:26 +0100 Received: from [212.1.140.180] (helo=g4jnt) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15LX49-00057h-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 22:35:09 +0100 Message-ID: <001601c10cae$921cfa60$b48c01d4@g4jnt> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Near field effects Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 22:47:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: No ! This is a completely different matter altogether. The 'near field' here relates to arrays and antennas much larger than a wavelength and refers to the point where the wavefront is planar, and true inverse square law radiation holds. At a distance of approx 2 D^2 / lambda It has nothing nothing whatsoever to do with the 'near field relating to the reactive fields of a small antenna. Means that as the antenna gets larger, the far field gets greater as the square of the antenna dimension. To illustrate the practical implications of this in an amateur context, for a typical size 0.6 metre dish at 10GHz you have to go out as far as 24 metres before gain measurements become meaningful. ------ I looked up the equations relating to a small antenna, in the excelent antenna book simply called 'ANTENNAS' by L V Blake and originally published in 1966 - thrown out by our works library ! . Sure enough it shows my memory is fading - the E field of a short monopole does indeed fall off as 1/R^3 as I correctly remembered, but gives the magnetic field roll off as 1/R^2 as quoted by John earlier today not the 1/R^6 I initially thought. However, this is for a short, basically E field, antenna. My gut feeling is that a magnetic antenna such as a loop would behave in the opposite way and the H field would roll off much faster than the E field. What we want is someone who really understands how to apply the basic calculations from first principles - there may be one or two in the world who can do it, they write these text books !! . Andy G4JNT Hi All, Trying to find out more about near field effects, I have read that the transition from near to far field happens at the "Rayleigh distance", sometimes called the "far field distance". An estimate for this distance is given by the formula (2 d^2)/(lambda) where d is the maximum dimension of the radiating structure. (See for example: http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/D.Jefferies/antennas.html) For a quarter wave vertical this gives a value of one eighth of a wavelength, not too different from the 1/2Pi formula quoted elsewhere. However for a typical amateur 10 metre vertical, the formula gives a ridiculously small value of less than 0.1 of a metre at 137 kHz. It seems that the Rayleigh distance is commonly used when considering microwave antennas, dishes, horns and the like. Can anyone explain to me why it is not appropriate for our proportionally small antennas? In particular are the Near Field effects of our small antennas over-estimated when we suppose them to be still significant out to lambda/(2Pi)? Is the latter formula only appropriate to professional antennas? 73, John, G4CNN email: computernetworks@go.com web page: http://www.g4cnn.f2s.com ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22417 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2001 21:13:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jul 2001 21:13:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 2386 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2001 21:12:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Jul 2001 21:12:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15LWYR-0001OS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 22:02:23 +0100 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15LWYL-0001Kq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 22:02:17 +0100 Received: from [213.122.234.148] (helo=default) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #9) id 15LWXZ-00061U-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 22:01:30 +0100 Message-ID: <000401c10ca7$c6a294e0$94ea7ad5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: re 9kHz NOVs Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 18:40:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Andy, if you think it might help the cause.....where did you apply to?? and I will prepare an application as well. You wont be able to do real experimentation unless there are a spread of operational stations for reports etc. As to 1.4H coils try measuring the inductance of some old audio transformers, and mod transformers, maybe the odd C-core power transformer. I think you might find them in the right kind of range, though you may need an air gap (??) I have a torroidal line transormer (100v line..... I think its called) from an old slave audio amp that looks about right, and is certainly good to about 40kHz. Insulation could be another problem though !! Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2085 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2001 12:38:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jul 2001 12:38:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 29739 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2001 12:36:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Jul 2001 12:36:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15LOYr-0005ay-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 13:30:17 +0100 Received: from [204.202.140.199] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15LOYn-0005at-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 13:30:13 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gomailjtp01 ([10.212.0.161]) by mta07.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GGG00DN7QO74X@mta07.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 05:28:55 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 05:28:57 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Sexton" Subject: LF: Near field effects To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <1689887.995113737131.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, Trying to find out more about near field effects, I have read that the transition from near to far field happens at the "Rayleigh distance", sometimes called the "far field distance". An estimate for this distance is given by the formula (2 d^2)/(lambda) where d is the maximum dimension of the radiating structure. (See for example: http://www.ee.surrey.ac.uk/Personal/D.Jefferies/antennas.html) For a quarter wave vertical this gives a value of one eighth of a wavelength, not too different from the 1/2Pi formula quoted elsewhere. However for a typical amateur 10 metre vertical, the formula gives a ridiculously small value of less than 0.1 of a metre at 137 kHz. It seems that the Rayleigh distance is commonly used when considering microwave antennas, dishes, horns and the like. Can anyone explain to me why it is not appropriate for our proportionally small antennas? In particular are the Near Field effects of our small antennas over-estimated when we suppose them to be still significant out to lambda/(2Pi)? Is the latter formula only appropriate to professional antennas? 73, John, G4CNN email: computernetworks@go.com web page: http://www.g4cnn.f2s.com ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15247 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2001 10:11:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jul 2001 10:11:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 5543 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2001 10:10:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Jul 2001 10:10:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15LMCi-0004Hp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 10:59:17 +0100 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15LMCh-0004Hk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 10:59:16 +0100 Received: from [212.1.140.22] (helo=g4jnt) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15LLvt-0004nr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 10:41:54 +0100 Message-ID: <001001c10c4a$ec181900$168c01d4@g4jnt> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Re: 9kHz and the Induction field Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 10:54:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I think it would probably help - make the powers-that-be realise more than just one individual wants to play here. Question to Andy: Would it help or hinder your case if others were also to apply for an NOV for 9kHz? ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5667 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2001 09:47:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jul 2001 09:47:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 21141 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2001 09:46:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Jul 2001 09:46:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15LLqn-00048Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 10:36:37 +0100 Received: from lepidachrosite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15LLqk-00048T-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 10:36:34 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust148.tnt49.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.117.16.148]) by lepidachrosite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 70D41CB315 for ; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 09:34:33 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <002901c10c49$3bbd6b60$941075d5@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Near field of 9kHz antenna V Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 11:41:05 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------080804070800090005030603" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080804070800090005030603 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
To All from PA0SE
 
Attached please find the electric component of the field produced by the 180 x 180 m vertical loop when 1kW is fed to it on 9kHz.
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
--------------080804070800090005030603 Content-Type: image/gif; name="E-field.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="E-field.gif" R0lGODdhxQIxA/cAAAAAAP//////////////////////////////////+/////////////// //////////////////////////8////////////9/wAA+P7///////////////////////// /////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////wAA+P7///// /////x+/P/////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// /////////wAA+P7//////////w+en///////////v/////////////////////////////// /////////////////////////////wAA+P///////////+f+z/////n+/88Hnvfh//////// /////////////////////////////////////////////////wAA+P////////////P8z/// ///+/+f3/ObM/////8P/////5////////////////////////////////////////////wAA +P////////////f87//////8//Pz/M/e/////znf/2DiyL8//P////////////////////// /////////////////wAA+P////////////P8z////xjw/4MH/E/e//////3f/ydP3p/f/P// /z/4//8//////////////////////////////wAA+Pz//////////+f+3////3j0/xMe/GDe 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Received: (qmail 5030 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2001 09:47:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jul 2001 09:47:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 8634 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2001 09:46:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Jul 2001 09:46:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15LLqg-00048P-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 10:36:30 +0100 Received: from lepidachrosite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15LLqb-00048J-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 10:36:25 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust148.tnt49.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.117.16.148]) by lepidachrosite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id AA319CB329 for ; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 09:34:23 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <002801c10c49$35f243e0$941075d5@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Near field of 9kHz antenna IV Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 11:37:53 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------020509070204080905060406" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020509070204080905060406 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
To All from PA0SE
 
As suggested by Rik I have modelled by AO a square loop made of 15mm diameter copper tube.
To make it more or less comparable to the 180m vertical I have given the loop sides of 180m; the horizontal bottom leg 5m off the ground. The feedpoint is at the centre of the bottom leg.
 
AO gives the feed point impedance as Z = 0.380 + j60.1 ohm and the efficiency as 0.03%.
 
So for 1 kW fed into the loop the current must be SQR(0.380 * 1000) = 19.5A.
 
The voltage at the feed point becomes 19.5 * 0.380 = 1172V.
 
Radiated power is 0.3W.
 
Attached the value of the magnetic field component up to 2km from the antenna.
The E-field will be sent as a following e-mail.
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
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from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Jul 2001 08:27:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15LKZi-0003T7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 09:14:54 +0100 Received: from rubellite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15LKZg-0003T2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 09:14:53 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust226.tnt61.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.117.40.226]) by rubellite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 5016A2A5D for ; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 08:13:25 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000b01c10c3d$d6f7ffc0$e22875d5@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Near filed of 9kHz antenna III Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 10:19:13 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
To All from PA0SE
 
A few additional remarks about the info in my earlier massages are necessary.
 
1. I stated the field computation was based upon a radiated power of 1kW.
That is not correct. The power fed to the antenna is 1kW. Computer program AO gives the efficiency of the antenne as 26.4%. So the radiated power is 264W.
 
I modelled the antenna as an 180m high vertical copper tube of 15mm diameter.
 
AO computes the feedpoint impedance as 0.042 - j16189 ohm.
Because efficiency is 26.4% the radiation resistance is 0.264 * 0.042 = 11 milli-ohm.
 
To pump 1000W into the antenna the current must be SQR( 0.042 * 1000) = 6.48A.
 
The voltage on the antenna is then 6.48 * 16189 = 105kV.
 
2. Maker K6STI of AO has told me that the near field option actually calculates the total power, so it includes the far field.
 
At 2km from the antenna the phase difference between H and E is 88.8 degrees, still near the 90 degrees of the real near field. (In the far field it would be zero degrees).
Also E/H = 872 ohms; it would be 120 * pi = 377 ohms in the far field. 
 
3. I will try to model a loop, as suggested by Rik, ON7YD. I will send the E and H field figures as attachment to separate e-mail messages.
 
73, Dick, PA0SE 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7574 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2001 08:22:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Jul 2001 08:22:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 3096 invoked from network); 14 Jul 2001 08:20:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Jul 2001 08:20:53 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15LKSd-0003Lr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 09:07:35 +0100 Received: from [204.202.140.199] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15LKSZ-0003Lm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 09:07:32 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gomailjtp01 ([10.212.0.161]) by mta07.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GGG0076KEDORJ@mta07.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 01:03:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 01:03:26 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Sexton" Subject: LF: Re: 9kHz and the Induction field To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <2615421.995097806209.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, When Andy queried the formulae yesterday, I later recalled the article in the first edition of the LF Experimenters Source Book, by Lloyd Butler, VK5BR, where he states: 1. The electric component of the induction field decreases with the cube of the distance and dB = 60log(d2/d1), where d2 and d1 are the relative distances. 2. The magnetic component of the induction field decreases with the square of the distance and dB = 40log(d2/d1). 3. Both the electric and magnetic components of the radiation field decrease directly with distance and dB = 20log(d2/d1). A graph is included in the article, showing the magnetic component of the induction field to be greater than the electric at distances of 0.1 of a wavelength. So for distances from about 3 to 5 kilometres the electric component of the induction field can be ignored but the magnetic component of the induction field is still significant. So it seems likely that a loop receive antenna should enable the unofficial record to be increased. 73, John, G4CNN email: computernetworks@go.com web page: http://www.g4cnn.f2s.com Question to Andy: Would it help or hinder your case if others were also to apply for an NOV for 9kHz? ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7816 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2001 23:45:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Jul 2001 23:45:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 8318 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2001 23:44:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Jul 2001 23:44:10 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15LCWb-0007gS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 00:39:09 +0100 Received: from imo-r08.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.104]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15LCWa-0007gN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 00:39:08 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-r08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.7.) id l.df.177973a4 (25717) for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 19:38:20 -0400 (EDT) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 19:38:20 EDT Subject: Re: LF: Fw: Near field of 9kHz antenna To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 107 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 7/13/01 4:26:24 PM GMT Daylight Time, WarmSpgs@aol.com writes: << Hi Dick, Are you able to send the GIF as a standard file attachment? I have to reject embedded images in e-mail, but would be glad to download separate attachments. >> Me too. Embedded files are deleted as 'risky'. David From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8871 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2001 21:24:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Jul 2001 21:24:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 16647 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2001 21:23:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Jul 2001 21:23:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15LAKV-0006VJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 22:18:31 +0100 Received: from pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.7]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15LAKT-0006VE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 22:18:30 +0100 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.181.149]) by pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010713211935.HKFY4787628.pop2-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Sat, 14 Jul 2001 09:19:35 +1200 Message-ID: <006201c10be1$bc100c40$01b51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C552@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> Subject: LF: 9 kHz rule interpretation Date: Sat, 14 Jul 2001 09:20:24 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, Andy wrote: > Looks as if allocations at 9kHz could be a headache. If below 9kHz is not > allocated by ITU then administrations cannot issue licences / NoVs. No ITU allocation means that there is (currently) no international agreement on allocation of services to frequency bands below 9 kHz. It does not mean that there must be no operation. Individual administrations continue to have sovereignty and control of rulemaking within respective jurisdictions (but each should not be inconsistent with ITU treaty obligations). Where there is "no allocation" internationally then it would hardly be an issue for an administration to approve radio activity for frequencies below 9 kHz (by setting terms and conditions to not interfere with radio services "above" 9 kHz). 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3357 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2001 19:32:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Jul 2001 19:32:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 23266 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2001 19:31:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Jul 2001 19:31:13 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15L8ae-0005Vo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 20:27:04 +0100 Received: from [204.202.140.199] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15L8ac-0005Vj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 20:27:03 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gomailjtp01 ([10.212.0.161]) by mta07.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GGF00CNYF70K9@mta07.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 12:23:24 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 12:23:26 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Sexton" Subject: Re: LF: RE: Near field of 9kHz antenna II To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <5708881.995052206465.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Andy, I can manage the maths, although the arithmetic always seems to go wrong, but not being a radio engineer, the formulae are not very familiar. Can you point me to a good source. John, G4CNN -----Original Message----- From: "Andrew Talbot" To: "'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org'" Date: Fri Jul 13 07:52:55 PDT 2001 Subject: LF: RE: Near field of 9kHz antenna II >Obviously not 1/R^6 roll off then !!!>Looking at the figures for 1km and 2km it appears to be more like 1/R^2 >which is the rate of the radiation field decay - surely the H field should >fall off faster than that ? > >Very Curious. > >Come on, there must be someone out there who understands and can apply >Maxwells equations :-) > >Andy G4JNT > > > > >-----Original Message----- >From: Dick Rollema [mailto:d.w.rollema@freeler.nl] >Sent: 2001-07-13 14:38 >To: LF-Group >Subject: LF: Near field of 9kHz antenna II > > >To All from PA0SE > >Here is the value of the near magnetic field up to 2km from the antenna. > > >-- >The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence >is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). >For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, >or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is >prohibited and may be unlawful. > ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27610 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2001 17:18:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Jul 2001 17:18:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 2259 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2001 17:17:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Jul 2001 17:17:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15L6QH-0004Kn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 18:08:13 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from relay.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.49]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15L6QG-0004Ki-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 18:08:12 +0100 Received: (qmail 12861 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2001 18:05:55 +0100 Received: from trtnmail.dera.gov.uk (146.80.9.56) by relay.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 13 Jul 2001 18:05:55 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 3520 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2001 18:09:28 +0100 Received: (ofmipd 192.5.29.90); 13 Jul 2001 17:09:06 -0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id SAA05492; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 18:13:01 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 21816 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2001 17:59:39 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 13 Jul 2001 17:59:39 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id RAA04016; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 17:48:48 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma004006; Fri, 13 Jul 01 17:48:36 GMT Received: from mailex.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 18:06:31 +0100 Received: (qmail 8709 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2001 16:56:37 +0100 Received: from softdnserror (HELO cchecker.dstl.gov.uk) (192.168.248.52) by mailex.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 13 Jul 2001 15:56:37 -0000 Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3 (unverified) by cchecker.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.2) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 16:56:40 +0100 Received: by FRN-MAIL-R3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <356X2JPR>; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 18:06:14 +0100 Date: 13 Jul 2001 15:52:55 +0100 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C553@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Near field of 9kHz antenna II MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Obviously not 1/R^6 roll off then !!! Looking at the figures for 1km and 2km it appears to be more like 1/R^2 which is the rate of the radiation field decay - surely the H field should fall off faster than that ? Very Curious. Come on, there must be someone out there who understands and can apply Maxwells equations :-) Andy G4JNT -----Original Message----- From: Dick Rollema [mailto:d.w.rollema@freeler.nl] Sent: 2001-07-13 14:38 To: LF-Group Subject: LF: Near field of 9kHz antenna II To All from PA0SE Here is the value of the near magnetic field up to 2km from the antenna. -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22597 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2001 15:29:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Jul 2001 15:29:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 22610 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2001 15:28:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Jul 2001 15:28:14 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15L4kD-0003QG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 16:20:41 +0100 Received: from imo-m10.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.165]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15L4kC-0003Q8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 16:20:40 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.7.) id l.b7.10a174d4 (25309) for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 11:19:24 -0400 (EDT) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 11:19:24 EDT Subject: Re: LF: Fw: Near field of 9kHz antenna To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Dick, Are you able to send the GIF as a standard file attachment? I have to reject embedded images in e-mail, but would be glad to download separate attachments. 73, John KD4IDY From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22167 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2001 14:45:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Jul 2001 14:45:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 14414 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2001 14:44:16 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Jul 2001 14:44:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15L470-0002uN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:40:10 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15L46z-0002uI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:40:09 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA1623672 for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 16:39:29 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010713153919.0d77490c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:39:19 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Fw: Near field of 9kHz antenna In-reply-to: <002301c10b9d$2f2e0280$e76274d5@w8k3f0> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Dick, Your simulation confirms the measurement of DF6NM, the near field signal drops very fast (20dB for 1km -> 2km). Can you simulate a magnetic (loop) antenna instead of a vertical ? I wonder if that gives any different (better) result. I used GRNDWAV3 (btw fine piece of work) to calculate the far-field signal strength from 5km upward. When doubling the distance step by step the result is a 6dB decrease each time, up to 640km. From there on the attenuation increases significantly. But who worries for that at this moment. So the main burden could be to get the signal 5km out, for there on you 'only' need to quadruple the ERP to double the distance. One more thing : the VLF signal strength is most likely very stable at distances below 1000km, so what stops us from using DFCW at dotlengths of several minutes. Achieving 0.001Hz frequency stability of the TX and RX should be 'peanuts' (just 1ppm) what allows us to take optimal advantage of very long dotlengths. Any station that can get it's signal copied at 5km distance using 3 sec/dot should have a range of about 70km at 10 min/dot. 73, Rik ON7YD At 15:09 13/07/01 +0200, you wrote: > >To All from PA0SE > >Computer program Antenna Optimizer by K6STI permits to calculate the near field of an antenna up to a distance of 2km. I did so for a vertical for 9kHz. I had to make it 180m high before computation was possible. >The field is computed for a radiated power of 1kW. But what matters is the way the field strength changes with distance. >Sorry for the poor quality. The file cannot be saved outside the AO program or whatever that is called in computer speak. So I had to print them using "Print Screen" and scan the printed result. >I first included the near magnetic field as well but the Reflector apparantly did not accept the file (50kB). When I see this message has been accepted by the Reflector I will send the magnetic field values by a separate e-mail. > >73, Dick > >Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\ATTACH\LFFwNear.htm" > >Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\ATTACH\Nearelec.gif" > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 298 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2001 14:12:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Jul 2001 14:12:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 15257 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2001 14:11:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Jul 2001 14:11:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15L3aU-0002jj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:06:34 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from relay.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.49]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15L3aS-0002je-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:06:32 +0100 Received: (qmail 17692 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2001 15:04:13 +0100 Received: from trtnmail.dera.gov.uk (146.80.9.56) by relay.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 13 Jul 2001 15:04:13 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 1882 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2001 15:07:46 +0100 Received: (ofmipd 192.5.29.90); 13 Jul 2001 14:07:24 -0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id PAA22285; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:11:18 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 11792 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2001 14:57:57 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 13 Jul 2001 14:57:57 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id OAA21582; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:47:06 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma021565; Fri, 13 Jul 01 14:46:40 GMT Received: from mailex.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with SMTP id for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:04:34 +0100 Received: (qmail 12446 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2001 13:54:41 +0100 Received: from softdnserror (HELO cchecker.dstl.gov.uk) (192.168.248.52) by mailex.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 13 Jul 2001 12:54:41 -0000 Received: from FRN-MAIL-R3 (unverified) by cchecker.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.2) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 13:54:44 +0100 Received: by FRN-MAIL-R3 with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <356X22WF>; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:04:18 +0100 Date: 13 Jul 2001 15:04:19 +0100 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C552@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Fw: Near field of 9kHz antenna MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Looks very much like like 1/R^3 fall off - just as the equations predict. I seem to recall the magnetic field falls off even faster - 1/R^6 sound familiar. Looks as if allocations at 9kHz could be a headache. If below 9kHz is not allocated by ITU then administrations cannot issue licences / NoVs. But any radiation there are indeed radio transmission, so should be licensed. Does anyone have a spare 1.2H inductor, rated for 100kV at 9kHz :-) Andy G4JNT -----Original Message----- From: Dick Rollema [mailto:d.w.rollema@freeler.nl] Sent: 2001-07-13 14:09 To: LF-Group Subject: LF: Fw: Near field of 9kHz antenna >To All from PA0SE >Computer program Antenna Optimizer by K6STI permits to calculate the near field of an antenna up to a distance of 2km. I did so for a vertical for >9kHz. I had to make it 180m high before computation was possible -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28293 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2001 13:43:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Jul 2001 13:43:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 2325 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2001 13:42:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Jul 2001 13:42:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15L34z-0002Ss-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:34:01 +0100 Received: from lepidachrosite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15L34k-0002Sn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:33:47 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust131.tnt3.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.116.100.131]) by lepidachrosite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 4925ACB333 for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 13:31:44 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <001001c10ba1$32d45160$0100007f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Near field of 9kHz antenna II Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:38:16 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------070609030004060202030902" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070609030004060202030902 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
To All from PA0SE
 
Here is the value of the near magnetic field up to 2km from the antenna.
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
 
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rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 14:07:00 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust231.tnt2.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.116.98.231]) by lepidachrosite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 43804CB391 for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 13:02:58 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <002301c10b9d$2f2e0280$e76274d5@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Fw: Near field of 9kHz antenna Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 15:09:22 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------000701010900050801060406" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000701010900050801060406 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
 
To All from PA0SE
 
Computer program Antenna Optimizer by K6STI permits to calculate the near field of an antenna up to a distance of 2km. I did so for a vertical for 9kHz. I had to make it 180m high before computation was possible.
The field is computed for a radiated power of 1kW. But what matters is the way the field strength changes with distance.
Sorry for the poor quality. The file cannot be saved outside the AO program or whatever that is called in computer speak. So I had to print them using "Print Screen" and scan the printed result.
I first included the near magnetic field as well but the Reflector apparantly did not accept the file (50kB). When I see this message has been accepted by the Reflector I will send the magnetic field values by a separate e-mail.
 
73, Dick
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2001 09:06:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 19545 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2001 09:05:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Jul 2001 09:05:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15KyoY-000067-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 10:00:46 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from e23.nc.us.ibm.com ([32.97.136.229]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15KyoX-000062-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 10:00:46 +0100 Received: from southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.208]) by e23.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA67272 for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 04:48:48 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (dyn9-87-107-177.italy.ibm.com [9.87.107.177]) by southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v4.96) with ESMTP id f6D903f127576 for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 05:00:03 -0400 Message-ID: <3B4EB86F.7B84158@usa.net> Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 10:59:27 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: LF/Hyper test References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C54D@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Unless some of the grain orientated, directional, oxgen free copper cables > the Hi-Fi buffs claim are necessary have some magical properties that make > them ideal for antennas. > Are you aware of the latest developments in this area ? I have been told that amongst Hi-Fi buffs the new rage is to use special cables (very expensive, of course, and they deserve it...) also for connecting the amplifiers the the mains outlets... I wonder when someone will ask the power utility companies to change all their cablings from the residential houses to the power stations with those special cables with oriented atoms.... :-) 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18340 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2001 08:44:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Jul 2001 08:44:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 7720 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2001 08:42:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Jul 2001 08:42:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15KyOr-0008MY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:34:13 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from e24.nc.us.ibm.com ([32.97.136.230]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15KyOq-0008MT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:34:12 +0100 Received: from southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.208]) by e24.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA56594 for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 04:33:09 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (dyn9-87-107-177.italy.ibm.com [9.87.107.177]) by southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v4.96) with ESMTP id f6D8XOf124726 for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 04:33:26 -0400 Message-ID: <3B4EB230.6CD8914C@usa.net> Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 10:32:48 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Mailing List" Subject: LF: [Fwd: VLF/LF Software Radio Transmitter] Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I received the attached message, which looks very interesting, especially to those performing tests on VLF, around 9kHz. But reading the referenced page, 136kHz are not ruled out... 73 Alberto I2PHD -------- Original Message -------- Subject: VLF/LF Software Radio Transmitter Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 14:27:27 -0400 From: Maitland Bottoms To: The Tacos Mailing List OK, Since there have been discussions on both LF and Software Defined Radios in the group, I pass along the following news... Read up on it here: http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT3239582376.html The gist is that you can download a floppy disk image and within a few minutes generate VLF/LF signals. 1. Read web page 2. Click on link to download floppy image data 3. Copy floppy image to a real physical floppy 4. Boot computer with said floppy 5. Attach parallel port antenna 6. Tune receiver to listen to transmissions Your mission, should you choose to accept it, would be to change the code a little to allow the operator to input a callsign and then pick OOK or FSK modulation options, and speed of morse code output. Extra credit, emergency power bonus points: Run this transmitter from a hand-cranked power source, using a manual powered computer described here: http://www.linuxdevices.com/articles/AT5746261759.html -Maitland _______________________________________________ Tacos mailing list Tacos@amrad.org http://www.amrad.org/mailman/listinfo/tacos From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6705 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2001 08:19:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Jul 2001 08:19:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 16444 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2001 08:18:35 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Jul 2001 08:18:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Ky1F-00086k-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:09:49 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Ky1B-00086f-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:09:45 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA667560 for ; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 10:09:04 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010713090856.2c4fb460@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 13 Jul 2001 09:08:56 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: License for below 9 kHz!!!!! In-reply-to: <000f01c10b25$eac09670$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C54C@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> <000c01c10ae4$3a405380$bba97ad5@default> <3B4DB52C.380B2619@usa.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >> > > The RSGB are still pursuing my 9kHz NOV application with the >> > > authorities > >There is no requirement for any for of authorization below 9 kHz in Canada, >this is why the work I did last winter was at 8.998 kHz. Same situation in Belgium : via our society (UBA) the question was raised with the regulation authority (BIPT / IBPT) and their answer was that their regulation starts at 9kHz, so below that frequency you do not need any licence. One should however take into account that all harmonics of a 8.9xxkHz signal are well above 9kHz so only a clean sinusoidal signal should be used especially if you do not use a tuned (narrowband) antenna. Those who are interested in this matter should have a look here : http://www.qsl.net/vk2zto/UEVLF/uevlf_comms.htm the 'downunder' distance record seems to be 1.6km 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28588 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2001 03:46:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Jul 2001 03:46:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 9719 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2001 03:45:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Jul 2001 03:45:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Ktns-0005wT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 04:39:44 +0100 Received: from tomts6.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.26] helo=tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Ktnr-0005wO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 04:39:43 +0100 Received: from server1 ([216.209.110.78]) by tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010713033831.JULN15384.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 23:38:31 -0400 Message-ID: <001801c10b4c$8bd8b620$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <1059@9A0TCP> Subject: Re: LF: License for below 9 kHz!!!!! Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 23:33:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Tom: > So below 9 kHz is not a > free-bander-area, it has to be still 'administrated'. Interesting point however About this point Tom we start planning another Bastille Day......... Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24496 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2001 00:35:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Jul 2001 00:35:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 21837 invoked from network); 13 Jul 2001 00:34:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Jul 2001 00:34:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15KqpT-0004Rh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 01:29:11 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ham1.irb.hr ([161.53.131.141] helo=9a0tcp.ampr.org) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15KqpR-0004NK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 01:29:10 +0100 X-BBS-Msg-Type: P Date: Fri, 13 Jul 01 00:16:43 GMT Message-ID: <1059@9A0TCP> From: "Tom" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: License for below 9 kHz!!!!! In-reply-to: your message of Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:56:33 -0400. <000f01c10b25$eac09670$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi ! my ITU rules book said 'below 9 kHz: NOT ALLOCATED (Footnotes 444, 445)' RR 444: Administrations authorizing the use of frequencies below 9 kHz shall ensure taht no harmful interference is caused therby to the services to which the bands above 9 kHz are allocated (see RR 1816). RR 445: Administrations conducting scientific research using frequencies below 9 kHz are urged to advise other administrations that may be concerned in order that such reseach may be afforded all practicable protection from harmful interference. So according to my understand of the ITU rules, the frequencies below 9 kHz are nor allocated to any special service BUT that the administration have to be sure that the operations works 'ok' and that they even have to inform other administrations about any tests. So below 9 kHz is not a free-bander-area, it has to be still 'administrated'. 73, Tom - DL8AAM PS: They use typical the word 'shall', and I learned means in laws 'have to if possible' and not a phrase for a volunteer 'shall' ....hi at least in the german law sciene (we have the phrases 'could' (means should), 'should (means have to if possible, means normally 'have to') and 'must' or 'have to' (means a 'more strenght have to'). Just by reading these two RRs (maybe any other give more 'freedom' to the administrations) any administration which give below 9 KHz free/unadministrated act illegal, at least in the sence of the ITU. ?!?!?? From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9991 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2001 23:11:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Jul 2001 23:11:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 16117 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2001 23:10:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Jul 2001 23:10:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15KpUH-0003k5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 00:03:13 +0100 Received: from tomts6.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.26] helo=tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15KpUG-0003k0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Jul 2001 00:03:12 +0100 Received: from server1 ([209.226.189.97]) by tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010712230200.HVBC15384.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 19:02:00 -0400 Message-ID: <000f01c10b25$eac09670$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C54C@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> <000c01c10ae4$3a405380$bba97ad5@default> <3B4DB52C.380B2619@usa.net> Subject: LF: License for below 9 kHz!!!!! Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 18:56:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings: > > > The RSGB are still pursuing my 9kHz NOV application with the > > > authorities There is no requirement for any for of authorization below 9 kHz in Canada, this is why the work I did last winter was at 8.998 kHz. I might have it wrong but I suspect the ITU does not go below 9 kHz as well. At what frequency in the UK does the regulator give up regulation? Why wouldn't one just hang an old speaker at the end of the wire top hat? Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27093 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2001 20:02:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Jul 2001 20:02:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 2561 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2001 20:01:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Jul 2001 20:01:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15KmWy-00025k-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 20:53:48 +0100 Received: from imo-r03.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.99]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15KmWx-00025f-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 20:53:48 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-r03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.7.) id l.cd.90f9973 (3968) for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:52:59 -0400 (EDT) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:52:59 EDT Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: LF/Hyper test To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 7/12/01 11:17:28 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ACTALBOT@dstl.gov.uk writes: << But they are not radiating it though, just compressing a lot of hot air. Unless some of the grain orientated, directional, oxgen free copper cables the Hi-Fi buffs claim are necessary have some magical properties that make them ideal for antennas. >> Of course they have magical properties, Andy. They are able to induce otherwise sensible people to pay extra money for the privilege of perceiving phenomena that can't be measured scientifically. That's just about the essence of magic. However, although RF radiation may not be involved, Alberto brings up a good thought. Perhaps the compression of hot air _should_ be regulated and licensed, at least above certain power levels. (grin) 73, John KD4IDY From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22841 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2001 15:26:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Jul 2001 15:26:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 10794 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2001 15:25:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Jul 2001 15:25:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Ki94-0008GF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:12:50 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from relay.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.49]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Ki92-0008GA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:12:49 +0100 Received: (qmail 15544 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2001 16:10:30 +0100 Received: from trtnmail.dera.gov.uk (146.80.9.56) by relay.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 12 Jul 2001 16:10:30 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 28475 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2001 16:14:00 +0100 Received: (ofmipd 192.5.29.90); 12 Jul 2001 15:13:38 -0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id QAA04075; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:17:32 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 32256 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2001 16:04:14 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 12 Jul 2001 16:04:14 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id PAA25037; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:53:28 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma025031; Thu, 12 Jul 01 15:53:05 GMT Received: from mailex.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with SMTP id for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:10:50 +0100 Received: (qmail 3531 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2001 15:01:02 +0100 Received: from softdnserror (HELO cchecker.dstl.gov.uk) (192.168.248.52) by mailex.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 12 Jul 2001 14:01:02 -0000 Received: from FRN-MAIL-R1.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by cchecker.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.2) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:01:06 +0100 Received: by frn-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:10:36 +0100 Date: 12 Jul 2001 16:10:37 +0100 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C54D@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re: LF/Hyper test MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: But they are not radiating it though, just compressing a lot of hot air. Unless some of the grain orientated, directional, oxgen free copper cables the Hi-Fi buffs claim are necessary have some magical properties that make them ideal for antennas. Andy > -----Original Message----- > From: Alberto di Bene [mailto:dibene@usa.net] > Sent: 2001-07-12 15:33 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: Re: LF/Hyper test > > > > > > > > The RSGB are still pursuing my 9kHz NOV application with the > > > authorities, eventually I hope to be joining in at these VLF > > > freqs one day ! > > > > > This brings to the mind a question : > > Why are the users of Hi-Fi equipments not required to hold > any license ? > After all, they are radiating a considerable amount of energy at those > frequencies... :-) > > 73 Alberto I2PHD > > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23410 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2001 14:42:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Jul 2001 14:42:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 15397 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2001 14:41:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Jul 2001 14:41:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15KhY7-0007yc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:34:39 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from e31.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.129] helo=e31.bld.us.ibm.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15KhY4-0007yX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:34:36 +0100 Received: from westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com [9.99.140.22]) by e31.bld.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA13162 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:25:54 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (dyn9-87-107-177.italy.ibm.com [9.87.107.177]) by westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v4.96.1.0) with ESMTP id f6CEXof92416 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 08:33:51 -0600 Message-ID: <3B4DB52C.380B2619@usa.net> Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 16:33:16 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: LF/Hyper test References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C54C@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> <000c01c10ae4$3a405380$bba97ad5@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > > > > The RSGB are still pursuing my 9kHz NOV application with the > > authorities, eventually I hope to be joining in at these VLF > > freqs one day ! > > This brings to the mind a question : Why are the users of Hi-Fi equipments not required to hold any license ? After all, they are radiating a considerable amount of energy at those frequencies... :-) 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14028 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2001 14:10:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Jul 2001 14:10:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 20804 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2001 14:09:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Jul 2001 14:09:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Kh3X-0007j1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:03:03 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Kh3H-0007iw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:02:47 +0100 Received: from [213.122.169.187] (helo=default) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #9) id 15Kh2Z-00076V-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:02:04 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c10ae4$3a405380$bba97ad5@default> From: "Fred Rattray" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C54C@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> Subject: Re: LF: LF/Hyper test Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 15:05:48 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andy Would be interested to know how you get on with your NOV application for 9Khz. Still have the remains of my old 2.4Khz Tx and Rx and aerials that I used to use for cave radio location work before moving to higher frequencies. 73 Fred G4SPR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Andrew Talbot" To: Sent: 12 July 2001 10:06 Subject: RE: LF: LF/Hyper test > The far field of a radiated signal, where the reactive E and > H fields can be safely ignored in propagation loss > measurements, occurs at approximately lambda / 2.pi > > At this frequency, with a wavelength of 33.5km this occurs at > 5.3km so you are still well within the near field. Inside > this region the reactive E field falls off much faster than > 1/R^2 and the magnetic field H even faster still, so the > decrease of 20dB going from R = 1.5 to 2.5km does not sound > too unreasonable. > > As a point to work from, "Reference Data for Radio Engineers" > gives groundwave loss at 10kHz for a 100km path as 33dB. The > curve does not go much below 30dB loss so can't read off > smaller distances, but if you assume 1/R^2 as a first > approximation for the radiated field (although not strictly > true for groundwave propagation) it should give some very > rough indications of what to expect from the 5km range by > extrapolating back from 100km > > The RSGB are still pursuing my 9kHz NOV application with the > authorities, eventually I hope to be joining in at these VLF > freqs one day ! > > Andy G4JNT > > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Rik Strobbe [mailto:rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be] > > Sent: 2001-07-12 10:42 > > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > Subject: Re: LF: LF/Hyper test > > > > > > At 09:02 12/07/01 +0100, DJ2LF wrote: > > >Some weeks before Markus DF6NM and me made some tests and > > found a max. > > audible > > >distance of 1500m and a max. visible distance of 2500m (on > screen of > > laptop). > > >Rec. antenna was 10m vertikal. > > > > Hello Walter, > > > > congrats on the 9kHz crossband QSO. > > > > Did you measure the current you could get into the antenna ? > > Ground-loss > > must be extreme at these frequencies. > > > > It is interesting to note that the signal seems to be audible > > up to 1.5km > > and visible on screen up to 2.5km. If good software (argo, > spectogram > > etc..) was used this would mean that the signal level > > decreased about 20dB > > between 1.5 and 2.5km ! > > Or otherwise it would mean that you would have to increase > > power from 12W > > > -- > The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence > is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). > For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, > or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is > prohibited and may be unlawful. > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13130 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2001 10:30:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Jul 2001 10:30:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 18959 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2001 10:29:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Jul 2001 10:29:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15KdYG-0005pb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:18:32 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from relay.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.49]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15KdY9-0005pV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:18:27 +0100 Received: (qmail 11245 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2001 11:15:59 +0100 Received: from trtnmail.dera.gov.uk (146.80.9.56) by relay.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 12 Jul 2001 11:15:59 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 25801 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2001 11:19:30 +0100 Received: (ofmipd 192.5.29.90); 12 Jul 2001 10:19:08 -0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id LAA06715; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:22:59 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 11762 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2001 11:00:17 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 12 Jul 2001 11:00:17 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id KAA29850; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:49:32 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma029848; Thu, 12 Jul 01 10:49:04 GMT Received: from mailex.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with SMTP id for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:06:46 +0100 Received: (qmail 3975 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2001 09:56:59 +0100 Received: from softdnserror (HELO cchecker.dstl.gov.uk) (192.168.248.52) by mailex.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 12 Jul 2001 08:56:59 -0000 Received: from FRN-MAIL-R1.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by cchecker.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.2) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:57:03 +0100 Received: by frn-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 11:06:33 +0100 Date: 12 Jul 2001 11:06:34 +0100 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C54C@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: LF/Hyper test MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The far field of a radiated signal, where the reactive E and H fields can be safely ignored in propagation loss measurements, occurs at approximately lambda / 2.pi At this frequency, with a wavelength of 33.5km this occurs at 5.3km so you are still well within the near field. Inside this region the reactive E field falls off much faster than 1/R^2 and the magnetic field H even faster still, so the decrease of 20dB going from R = 1.5 to 2.5km does not sound too unreasonable. As a point to work from, "Reference Data for Radio Engineers" gives groundwave loss at 10kHz for a 100km path as 33dB. The curve does not go much below 30dB loss so can't read off smaller distances, but if you assume 1/R^2 as a first approximation for the radiated field (although not strictly true for groundwave propagation) it should give some very rough indications of what to expect from the 5km range by extrapolating back from 100km The RSGB are still pursuing my 9kHz NOV application with the authorities, eventually I hope to be joining in at these VLF freqs one day ! Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: Rik Strobbe [mailto:rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be] > Sent: 2001-07-12 10:42 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: LF/Hyper test > > > At 09:02 12/07/01 +0100, DJ2LF wrote: > >Some weeks before Markus DF6NM and me made some tests and > found a max. > audible > >distance of 1500m and a max. visible distance of 2500m (on screen of > laptop). > >Rec. antenna was 10m vertikal. > > Hello Walter, > > congrats on the 9kHz crossband QSO. > > Did you measure the current you could get into the antenna ? > Ground-loss > must be extreme at these frequencies. > > It is interesting to note that the signal seems to be audible > up to 1.5km > and visible on screen up to 2.5km. If good software (argo, spectogram > etc..) was used this would mean that the signal level > decreased about 20dB > between 1.5 and 2.5km ! > Or otherwise it would mean that you would have to increase > power from 12W -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14274 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2001 09:34:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Jul 2001 09:34:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 22721 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2001 09:33:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Jul 2001 09:33:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15KckI-0005Kk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:26:54 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15KckH-0005Kf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:26:53 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15KcjZ-0006I1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:26:09 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15KcjU-0000zK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:26:04 +0100 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:27:39 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: LF/Hyper test X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Walter, LF Group, Very interesting to hear about the "million-to-one" 9kHz <=> 10GHz cross-band QSO. As a rough rule, most of the antenna books use the distance lambda/2pi as the boundary between near field and far field of an antenna, although many other factors are involved. With about 33km wavelength, this puts the boundary at about 5.3km, so as Rik points out, some form of near-field coupling mode is probably involved - perhaps the mutual capacitance between antennas would be a good way of looking at it. It would be very interesting to see how results compared if a magnetic RX antenna was used, ie. ferrite rod or loop. I can see this will be a fertile ground for theories! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6804 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2001 08:49:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Jul 2001 08:49:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 3710 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2001 08:48:07 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Jul 2001 08:48:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Kc3E-0004vw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:42:24 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Kc3D-0004vr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:42:23 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA756236 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 10:41:40 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010712094134.2bdfb116@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:41:34 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: LF/Hyper test In-reply-to: <200107120701.JAA11972@hugo.fen-net.de> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 09:02 12/07/01 +0100, DJ2LF wrote: >Some weeks before Markus DF6NM and me made some tests and found a max. audible >distance of 1500m and a max. visible distance of 2500m (on screen of laptop). >Rec. antenna was 10m vertikal. Hello Walter, congrats on the 9kHz crossband QSO. Did you measure the current you could get into the antenna ? Ground-loss must be extreme at these frequencies. It is interesting to note that the signal seems to be audible up to 1.5km and visible on screen up to 2.5km. If good software (argo, spectogram etc..) was used this would mean that the signal level decreased about 20dB between 1.5 and 2.5km ! Or otherwise it would mean that you would have to increase power from 12W to 1.2kW to get an audible signal at 2.5km. I tried a simulation with GNDWAVE3 and came up with only 4.4dB decrease (but I haven't the slightest idea wether GNDWAVE3 is accurate at 9kHz and 1.5km). Probably the communication on 33km was via some kind of (heavily absorbed) 'induced field'. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17790 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2001 07:13:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Jul 2001 07:13:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 29196 invoked from network); 12 Jul 2001 07:12:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Jul 2001 07:12:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15KaVY-0004CW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 08:03:32 +0100 Received: from [212.204.115.10] (helo=hugo.fen-net.de ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15KaUt-0004CR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 08:02:51 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [212.204.116.19] (dialin-nbg-019.fen-net.de [212.204.116.19]) by hugo.fen-net.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA11972 for ; Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:01:29 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <200107120701.JAA11972@hugo.fen-net.de> From: "Walter Staubach" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: LF/Hyper test Date: Thu, 12 Jul 2001 09:02:03 +0100 X-Mailer: EPOC32 Email Version 1.50 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To Bob nd All, the signal on 8953Hz was regular cw, RST from DL2NDO 529. Some weeks before Markus DF6NM and me made some tests and found a max. audible distance of 1500m and a max. visible distance of 2500m (on screen of laptop). Rec. antenna was 10m vertikal. 73 Walter DJ2LF --------------------------------------- From: BOB RIESE Subject: Re: LF: LF/Hyper test Date: 11.07.2001 16:41:24 --------------------------------------- "On june17th the stations DL2NDO and DJ2LF had a duplex QSO in cw, one way on 8953Hz, the other on 10.368200MHz. Frequency ratio 1:1 158 067. After opening the window the signal was loud and clear. Distance about 1Km. 73 Walter DJ2LF "..... While that is no record on 10 gig WBFM could it be one on 9 K cycles What kind of signal was received on 8953 QRSS ?? RST ?? well done Bob K3DJC From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25890 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2001 16:52:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Jul 2001 16:52:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 2893 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2001 16:51:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Jul 2001 16:51:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15KN75-0005n6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 17:45:23 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from m11.boston.juno.com ([64.136.24.74]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15KN72-0005n1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 17:45:20 +0100 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"yokUgcxCbtTP7XLrpefewEN9mX2T9Yvh91iXIQ/I0nPtOrk3KZPlzQ=="> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from riese-k3djc@juno.com) by m11.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id F934V7VA; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 12:44:25 EDT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 12:41:24 -0400 Subject: Re: LF: LF/Hyper test Message-ID: <20010711.124244.-512943.3.riese-k3djc@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 1-14 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "BOB RIESE" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: "On june17th the stations DL2NDO and DJ2LF had a duplex QSO in cw, one way on 8953Hz, the other on 10.368200MHz. Frequency ratio 1:1 158 067. After opening the window the signal was loud and clear. Distance about 1Km. 73 Walter DJ2LF "..... While that is no record on 10 gig WBFM could it be one on 9 K cycles What kind of signal was received on 8953 QRSS ?? RST ?? well done Bob K3DJC From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6136 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2001 15:29:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Jul 2001 15:29:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 10808 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2001 15:28:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Jul 2001 15:28:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15KLoD-000517-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:21:49 +0100 Received: from postfix1-2.free.fr ([213.228.0.130]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15KLo9-000512-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 16:21:45 +0100 Received: from rci (nas-cbv-2-52-167.dial.proxad.net [212.27.52.167]) by postfix1-2.free.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id C09EE10296F for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 17:21:01 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <008101c10a1e$99062d20$a7341bd4@rci> From: "f6kaw radio club d'ivry" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: LF/Hyper test Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 17:31:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: "On june17th the stations DL2NDO and DJ2LF had a duplex QSO in cw, one way on 8953Hz, the other on 10.368200MHz. Frequency ratio 1:1 158 067. On 8953Hz DJ2LF transmitted 12W from an AF amplifier with 2 tubes EL12/375 via loading coil 0.4H and 136KHz antenna. DL2NDO's receiver from 0 to 30MHz was homemade with a tuned front end for 8953Hz. Antenna 15m wire 10m up. He transmitted on 10GHz with 0.2W and antenna 50cm diameter. The receiver at DJ2LF site was an old wide band FM transceiver with gunnplexer and 100MHz IF. To this IF a 1000Hz ozillator was connected which always started when a strong carrier was received. So the cw signals were copied clearly despite the gunnplexer. The 8953Hz link worked immediately, but not the 10GHz. The reason was: DL2NDO put the 10GHz equipment behind the closed window. But the the window plane was coated to avoid thermic losses. After opening the window the signal was loud and clear. Distance about 1Km. 73 Walter DJ2LF "..... Well done, gentlemen !!!!......that is what we call : FUN !!!! and i didn't know that it will be possible to encounter radioham with gunplexer and "100 MHZ IF" yet...I thought i was the only one, hi !!!! (but with FI at 30MHZ, because on 100mhz near PARIS, it's awful !!!! hi !!!...We use gun cavity for 10ghz atv at the radio club, but not yet in FM WIDEBAND....just for FUN, we prepare a project to go FIELDAY and top mountain: 10ghz on one side, and barbecue on the other...!!! hi !!! (have a look at http://f6kaw.free.fr/ , hyper and laser page).... Congratulations and cheerio !!!!......Pascal.....F5PNP...... From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26195 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2001 09:49:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Jul 2001 09:49:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 18665 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2001 09:48:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Jul 2001 09:48:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15KGSS-00028M-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:39:00 +0100 Received: from [212.204.115.10] (helo=hugo.fen-net.de ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15KGSR-00028F-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:38:59 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [212.204.116.109] (dialin-nbg-109.fen-net.de [212.204.116.109]) by hugo.fen-net.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA29246 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:37:42 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <200107110937.LAA29246@hugo.fen-net.de> From: "Walter Staubach" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Duplex 1 to 1.1million Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:38:13 +0100 X-Mailer: EPOC32 Email Version 1.50 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On june17th the stations DL2NDO and DJ2LF had a duplex QSO in cw, one way on 8953Hz, the other on 10.368200MHz. Frequency ratio 1:1 158 067. On 8953Hz DJ2LF transmitted 12W from an AF amplifier with 2 tubes EL12/375 via loading coil 0.4H and 136KHz antenna. DL2NDO's receiver from 0 to 30MHz was homemade with a tuned front end for 8953Hz. Antenna 15m wire 10m up. He transmitted on 10GHz with 0.2W and antenna 50cm diameter. The receiver at DJ2LF site was an old wide band FM transceiver with gunnplexer and 100MHz IF. To this IF a 1000Hz ozillator was connected which always started when a strong carrier was received. So the cw signals were copied clearly despite the gunnplexer. The 8953Hz link worked immediately, but not the 10GHz. The reason was: DL2NDO put the 10GHz equipment behind the closed window. But the the window plane was coated to avoid thermic losses. After opening the window the signal was loud and clear. Distance about 1Km. 73 Walter DJ2LF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13010 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2001 09:48:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Jul 2001 09:48:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 17357 invoked from network); 11 Jul 2001 09:47:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Jul 2001 09:47:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15KGSS-00028G-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:39:00 +0100 Received: from [212.204.115.10] (helo=hugo.fen-net.de ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15KGSM-000288-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 10:38:55 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [212.204.116.109] (dialin-nbg-109.fen-net.de [212.204.116.109]) by hugo.fen-net.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA29237 for ; Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:37:37 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <200107110937.LAA29237@hugo.fen-net.de> From: "Walter Staubach" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 1W ERP in Germany Date: Wed, 11 Jul 2001 11:38:09 +0100 X-Mailer: EPOC32 Email Version 1.50 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: German stations can now get a permission for 1W ERP by making an individual application to the RegTP. Whenever there are no reasons against th permission will be granted. 73 Walter DJ2LF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3949 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2001 21:23:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Jul 2001 21:23:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 10398 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2001 21:22:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Jul 2001 21:22:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15K4s6-0004aF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 22:16:42 +0100 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15K4s2-0004aA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 22:16:38 +0100 Received: from [213.122.40.182] (helo=presario1920) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #9) id 15K4rN-0003Ys-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 22:15:57 +0100 From: "John W Gould" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Claim of ZL to VE7 amateur LF DX Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 22:20:59 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <013101c104f6$de84de00$2eb51bca@rvernall> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Very impressive, well done to all John G3WKL -----Original Message----- From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf Of Vernall Sent: Thursday, July 05, 2001 03:04 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Claim of ZL to VE7 amateur LF DX CLAIM OF ZL TO VE AMATEUR LF DX 5 July 2001 On Saturday 30 June ZL1WB, ZL6QH, ZL3VN, ZL3FJ, ZL3PN, ZL3JE, ZL4OL and AX2TAR (VK7ZAL) transmitted test signals in the 160 - 190 kHz band, for so-called trans-Pacific tests. Various DX listeners had prior knowledge of the schedule of individual test frequency and coding used by each station. Steve VE7SL, located on Mayne Island, some 40 km northwest of Victoria, British Columbia, managed to capture some interesting signals using an Icom IC-R75 receiver along with a PC with sound card, running Argo software. >>From an analysis of the screen capture, it is claimed that VE7SL received and positively identified signals from ZL6QH (operators were Andrew ZL2BBJ and Bob ZL2CA). It is also very likely that signals were received from Mike ZL4OL, but co-channel interference made the result too indistinct to obtain positive identification of coding. The propagation opening was around VE7 sunrise time. The path length from the ZL6QH transmitter, at Quartz Hill, near Wellington, New Zealand, is estimated as being 11,709 km. A three page WORD file, an Argo screen capture and a graphic of the VE7SL 10 foot loop receiving antenna can be privately emailed to those who request copies. Bob Vernall ZL2CA Organiser of the Trans-Pacific tests From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5627 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2001 17:37:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Jul 2001 17:37:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 4119 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2001 17:35:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Jul 2001 17:35:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15K1KS-0002h2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:29:44 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ins20.netins.net ([167.142.225.20] helo=smtp-out.netins.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15K1KM-0002fH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 18:29:38 +0100 Received: from netins.net (desm-32-118.dsl.netins.net [167.142.32.118]) by smtp-out.netins.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA05493; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 12:28:56 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B4B3B55.54319EF2@netins.net> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 12:28:53 -0500 From: "Dr. Tom Gruis" Organization: =?iso-8859-1?Q?www.gruis.org_&_K=D8HTF?= X-Sender: "Dr. Tom Gruis" <@smtp.netins.net> (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Cave Radio - Thank You too! References: <3B4A2079.F677BBE4@netins.net> <003601c10961$5f19f960$16ae7ad5@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thank you too, Sir! It will be passed along. Doc. Fred Rattray wrote: > > Check out my web site at http://www.caving.btinternet.co.uk > There is a little about cave radio beacons for radio location and depth > finding. > Also there is a brief explanation of a positioning system I have called SNAP > which is short for > Speliogical Navigation And Positioning, and a brief report on 73Khz SSTV > from underground. > > Regards > Fred Rattray > G4SPR > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dr. Tom Gruis" > To: > Sent: 09 July 2001 21:22 > Subject: LF: Cave Radio > > > Helllo from Iowa, USA. > > > > I seem to recall an earlier thread about Cave Radio on this reflector. > > > > I made note of this URL: http://www.bcra.org.uk/sig/creg.html > > > > Are there any more out there? > > > > 73, > > > > Doc. > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16723 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2001 16:04:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Jul 2001 16:04:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 16202 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2001 16:03:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 10 Jul 2001 16:03:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15JzpP-0001o7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:53:35 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15JzpO-0001o2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:53:34 +0100 Received: from [213.122.43.48] (helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #9) id 15Jzoi-0004dF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:52:53 +0100 Message-ID: <003601c10961$5f19f960$16ae7ad5@default> From: "Fred Rattray" To: "Lf Group" References: <3B4A2079.F677BBE4@netins.net> Subject: LF: Re: Cave Radio Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:54:32 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Check out my web site at http://www.caving.btinternet.co.uk There is a little about cave radio beacons for radio location and depth finding. Also there is a brief explanation of a positioning system I have called SNAP which is short for Speliogical Navigation And Positioning, and a brief report on 73Khz SSTV from underground. Regards Fred Rattray G4SPR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr. Tom Gruis" To: Sent: 09 July 2001 21:22 Subject: LF: Cave Radio > Helllo from Iowa, USA. > > I seem to recall an earlier thread about Cave Radio on this reflector. > > I made note of this URL: http://www.bcra.org.uk/sig/creg.html > > Are there any more out there? > > 73, > > Doc. > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26782 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2001 16:01:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Jul 2001 16:01:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 11802 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2001 16:00:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 10 Jul 2001 16:00:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15JzjV-0001nL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:47:29 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ins20.netins.net ([167.142.225.20] helo=smtp-out.netins.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15JzjR-0001nG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 16:47:25 +0100 Received: from netins.net (desm-32-118.dsl.netins.net [167.142.32.118]) by smtp-out.netins.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA12494; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:46:43 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B4B2362.2977D40F@netins.net> Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 10:46:42 -0500 From: "Dr. Tom Gruis" Organization: =?iso-8859-1?Q?www.gruis.org_&_K=D8HTF?= X-Sender: "Dr. Tom Gruis" <@smtp.netins.net> (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Cave Radio References: <3B4A2079.F677BBE4@netins.net> <000201c10908$e452bb20$d22df7c2@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thank you. I will also pass this information along. My family and I recently took a tour of Oregon Cave in the U.S. and the delightful young lady serving as a tour guide was in her final year of training and had not heard of cave radio and seemed quite interested. By coincidence, our (Methodist) Church just got a new associate pastor, a lady, and she has as one of her main interests away from the church, spelunking. Me? I have claustrophobia, acrophobia, etc... I'd be glad to operate surface stations! 73! Doc. John Rabson wrote: > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dr. Tom Gruis" > To: > Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 10:22 PM > Subject: LF: Cave Radio > > > Helllo from Iowa, USA. > > > > I seem to recall an earlier thread about Cave Radio on this reflector. > > > > I made note of this URL: http://www.bcra.org.uk/sig/creg.html > That page is on the main website of the British Cave Research Association > (BCRA). From http://www.bcra.org.uk/sig/ you can get to other BCRA special > interest groups. You can get directly to the CREG site at > http://www.sat.dundee.ac.uk/~arb/creg/ > > Please let me know of any inaccuracies or mistakes. > > Thank you. > > 73 de > John Rabson G3PAI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26387 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2001 06:38:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Jul 2001 06:38:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 1043 invoked from network); 10 Jul 2001 06:37:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 10 Jul 2001 06:37:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Jqy3-0005aw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 07:25:55 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Jqxy-0005ap-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 07:25:51 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer (man-s339.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.45.210]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id f6A6P3t26601 for ; Tue, 10 Jul 2001 07:25:03 +0100 Message-ID: <000201c10908$e452bb20$d22df7c2@oemcomputer> From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3B4A2079.F677BBE4@netins.net> Subject: LF: Re: Cave Radio Date: Tue, 10 Jul 2001 06:52:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dr. Tom Gruis" To: Sent: Monday, July 09, 2001 10:22 PM Subject: LF: Cave Radio > Helllo from Iowa, USA. > > I seem to recall an earlier thread about Cave Radio on this reflector. > > I made note of this URL: http://www.bcra.org.uk/sig/creg.html That page is on the main website of the British Cave Research Association (BCRA). From http://www.bcra.org.uk/sig/ you can get to other BCRA special interest groups. You can get directly to the CREG site at http://www.sat.dundee.ac.uk/~arb/creg/ Please let me know of any inaccuracies or mistakes. Thank you. 73 de John Rabson G3PAI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2294 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2001 21:29:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jul 2001 21:29:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 20430 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2001 21:28:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Jul 2001 21:28:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15JiUR-0000w9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 22:22:47 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [167.142.226.22] (helo=smtp-out.netins.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15JiUQ-0000w4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 22:22:46 +0100 Received: from netins.net (desm-32-118.dsl.netins.net [167.142.32.118]) by smtp-out.netins.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA30512; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 16:22:04 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B4A2079.F677BBE4@netins.net> Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 16:22:01 -0500 From: "Dr. Tom Gruis" Organization: =?iso-8859-1?Q?www.gruis.org_&_K=D8HTF?= X-Sender: "Dr. Tom Gruis" <@smtp.netins.net> (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Cave Radio References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Helllo from Iowa, USA. I seem to recall an earlier thread about Cave Radio on this reflector. I made note of this URL: http://www.bcra.org.uk/sig/creg.html Are there any more out there? 73, Doc. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23132 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2001 20:17:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jul 2001 20:17:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 18876 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2001 20:16:19 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Jul 2001 20:16:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15JhN9-0000Hc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 21:11:11 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp2.libero.it ([193.70.192.52]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15JhN6-0000HX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 21:11:08 +0100 Received: from ath650 (151.20.80.59) by smtp2.libero.it (5.5.031) id 3B3A187200284097; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 22:10:27 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 22:10:27 +0200 (added by postmaster@iol.it) Message-ID: <4.1.20010709210646.01a854e0@pop.tiscalinet.it> X-Sender: IK1ODO@popmail.libero.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Versione 4.1 Data: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 21:10:24 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Marco Bruno" Subject: Re: LF: AUSTRON mod. 2000C In-reply-to: <3.0.5.32.20010709152229.008c7340@pop3.esoterica.pt> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In 21.54 09/07/01 , hai scritto: >Dear All, > >If anybody has any information or knows where information is obtainable >on a receiver AUSTRON mod. 2000C used originally for precision timing >and time interval measuremnt using LORAN C, my friend CT1TE would be >very grateful as his unit has a logic fault and he has no manual. > >73, Brian > >73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W >http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian > I have it. I will reply later from my QRL e-mail address. Incidentally, I have two Austron 2000C for sale .... I found no way to modify the logic to lock to the "odd" GRI's of the NELS, and the Mediterranean chain is out of service. Does anyone know of such a modification to those excellent timing receivers? Marco Bruno - IK1ODO spin.elec@tiscalinet.it SPIN Electronics - www.spin-it.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12633 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2001 19:19:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jul 2001 19:19:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 18122 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2001 19:18:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Jul 2001 19:18:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15JgRn-0008Fw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 20:11:55 +0100 Received: from mailgate3.cinetic.de ([212.227.116.80]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15JgRm-0008Fr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 20:11:54 +0100 Received: from smtp.web.de (smtp01.web.de [194.45.170.210]) by mailgate3.cinetic.de (8.11.2/8.11.2/SuSE Linux 8.11.0-0.4) with SMTP id f69JBAg02030 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 21:11:10 +0200 Received: from arbeitspc by smtp.web.de with smtp (freemail 4.2.2.2 #11) id m15JgR4-007o8yC; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 21:11 +0200 Message-ID: <00a201c108aa$e9a2aee0$0200a8c0@arbeitspc> From: "Michael Oexner" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.5.32.20010709152229.008c7340@pop3.esoterica.pt> Subject: LF: Re: AUSTRON mod. 2000C Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 21:11:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by mailgate3.cinetic.de id f69JBAg02030 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Brian, after a short web search I found two addresses where information should be obtainable: http://www.falls.igs.net/~testequipment/a.html http://www.spin-it.com/manualis.html I think the latter company is run by Marco Bruno IK1ODO spin.elec@tiscalinet.it vy 73 + gd DX, Michael RX: ICOM R75, ICOM R71A, Sony ICF-SW7600G, W&G SPM-3 Antenna: Radio West 22.5" ferrite loop with amplifier, 20m longwire, Wellbrook ALA 100 Location: Roschbach, Germany N 49°15' E 8°07' / Locator JN49BF Member: CSDXC, DSWCI, EUNL, LWCA, MWC Editor of "The European NDB Handbook" e-mail: michael.oexner@web.de From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9343 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2001 19:14:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jul 2001 19:14:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 9444 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2001 19:13:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Jul 2001 19:13:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15JgKw-0008FB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 20:04:50 +0100 Received: from postfix2-2.free.fr ([213.228.0.140] ident=postfix) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15JgKv-0008F6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 20:04:49 +0100 Received: from rci (nas-cbv-6-8-133.dial.proxad.net [213.228.8.133]) by postfix2-2.free.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id CA20E6B797 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 21:04:08 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <004501c108ab$6b468ca0$8508e4d5@rci> From: "f6kaw radio club d'ivry" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: lf and laser tx Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 21:14:46 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Rawlings To: f6kaw radio club d'ivry Sent: Saturday, June 30, 2001 12:42 AM Subject: Re: LF: tks to all > Hello from Wales, > > I was very interested to see the information about lasers on your > web site. > > You may like to see the information about a 5.1 km 2-way QSO > GW/G!! > http://www.alg.demon.co.uk/radio/general/laser_news.htm > > 73 > Steve GW4ALG > Hello, Steve..... I saw it a few days ago and found it simply FUN..!!!. I love these little experiences to discover a new simple project, just for fun !!. As you can see on our page, we often "go out", taking cameras, coax, tx and of course: BARBECUE !!!.... No time left to experiment yet in laser transmit since the preparation of our meeting a month ago, but hope to have a try in september...... I came back to your web site for the infos about coil and variometer....very interesting, and better understanding now.... For info, we had a try on DBF39 on 138.830khz..... the rx level is S1 qsb for the moment, of course without coil and variometer on the line, just the 40 m dipole without the shield....So a lot of work to acomplish now, hi !!! I think we'll have a try to rx something this week.... Wish you a very good night, and a lot of LF DX... Pascal...F5PNP.. 73's...... http://f6kaw.free.fr/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8301 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2001 19:14:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jul 2001 19:14:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 8847 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2001 19:13:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Jul 2001 19:13:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15JgJC-0008F1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 20:03:02 +0100 Received: from postfix2-2.free.fr ([213.228.0.140] ident=postfix) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15JgJ9-0008Et-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 20:02:59 +0100 Received: from rci (nas-cbv-6-8-133.dial.proxad.net [213.228.8.133]) by postfix2-2.free.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id B73A06B72F for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 21:02:12 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003d01c108ab$2654b540$8508e4d5@rci> From: "f6kaw radio club d'ivry" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: lf: qrp tx update Date: Mon, 9 Jul 2001 21:12:49 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: Steve Rawlings To: f6kaw radio club d'ivry Sent: Sunday, July 08, 2001 8:27 AM Subject: QRP TX for 136 kHz > Hello Pascal! > > I have updated the web-site with my current VFO circuit. My > previous VFO circuit for the Marathon did not work for all brands > of 2N3819, but the new circuit tests OK with all the FETs in my > junk box - so I am confident that the latest circuit will be > reliable. See > http://www.alg.demon.co.uk/radio/136/qrptx.htm > > In the keyed pre-driver, I have reduced the value of the timing > capacitor across the 3.3k resistor from 22 uF to 10 uF. > > I hope that the QRP TX does become a Club Project. Please do not > hesitate to contact me if I can help in any way. > > With best regards, > Steve GW4ALG > Hello, Steve, and thanks a lot for the infos about ur qrp tx..... I didn't have so much time last week to solder some components on board, because holidays arrives soon (just next week, yippee !!!!!)....Never mind, i will take some of them to prepare the little tx during holidays, and hope it will be finished as i come back here to make the previous test !!! i also finish the DF3LP loop with coax RG213, and made some test on 138.830 khz rx.... the BF245C preamp seems to work well, but i don't understand something : - with 7mhz dipole, no lead strapped, i receive DCF39 abt S0 and qrm.... - with DF3LP loop, preamp in alu case, when i connect the shields of the loop, signal is abt S1.... - when i connect only 1 shield, and only the center of the other side, signal is S5 and "util signal" seems strong... -when i disconnect the two shield of the loop, signal is S7 to S9, and "util signal" seems to be the same.. (just a little more noisy !!!!).... I just don't know what to think !!!! any idea ???? i couldn't make more test on amateur signal because of my free time..... Best 73's to you and hope to hear you soon .....Pascal.....F5PNP.... http://f6kaw.free.fr From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29442 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2001 15:28:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jul 2001 15:28:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 3502 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2001 15:27:19 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 9 Jul 2001 15:27:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Jcqd-0006EG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 16:21:19 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rhun.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.26]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Jcqc-0006EB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 16:21:18 +0100 Received: from srv17slx.esoterica.pt (srv17slx.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.47]) by rhun.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f69FKN610787; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 16:20:23 +0100 (WEST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from slave2 (por326.esoterica.pt [195.22.18.26]) by srv17slx.esoterica.pt (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA14466; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 16:20:21 +0100 (WET DST) Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010709152229.008c7340@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 15:22:29 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: LF: AUSTRON mod. 2000C Cc: asmagal@oa.fc.up.pt MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear All, If anybody has any information or knows where information is obtainable on a receiver AUSTRON mod. 2000C used originally for precision timing and time interval measuremnt using LORAN C, my friend CT1TE would be very grateful as his unit has a logic fault and he has no manual. 73, Brian 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8681 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2001 09:27:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Jul 2001 09:27:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 8491 invoked from network); 9 Jul 2001 09:26:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Jul 2001 09:26:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15JX77-0002wd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 10:13:57 +0100 Received: from phobos.unica.co.uk ([208.239.240.147]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15JX6z-0002wT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 10:13:50 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [212.35.226.183] (helo=k2.pncl.co.uk) by phobos.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #2) id 15JX1L-0000CI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Jul 2001 05:07:59 -0400 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (168.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.168]) by k2.pncl.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3) with ESMTP id f698SJR12192 for ; Mon, 9 Jul 2001 09:28:19 +0100 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010709092603.00a31a50@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Mon, 09 Jul 2001 09:29:22 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: Decca active antennas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------000907050805010902040202" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000907050805010902040202 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello everyone, Some Decca active antennas from Decca Navigator receivers have appeared on the surplus market recently. They're worth buying if you see one - I have one and it's as good as my 100m inverted-L as regards S/N although not absolute output. They look like white or grey plastic tubes about 70 cms long, 4 cms dia, with "Racal-Decca" printed on the outside. They're quite good for reception on 73 and 136 being broad-banded over 70-130 kHz and have a fair amount of gain - 26 dB or so. All they need is 9-30 v dc fed up the co-ax in the usual way. Circuit attached courtesy Ko Versteeg. Note : their preamps are NOT the same as the preamps some of us got from the Decca transmitter sites. Re Loran - Following culled from NELS Newsletter: Quote: Northwest European Loran-C System. At the May 2001 meeting of the NELS Steering Committee, several member nation representatives presented statements reflecting that without a significant multimodal increase in the use of the system, a continuation of NELS beyond 2005 as a system funded over member nations public budgets would not be possible. In the now very likely event that the NELS organisation as such would be discontinued as of 31 December 2005, being concerned with the future for the infrastructure itself, the Committee decided on the following statement: NELS Steering Committee Statement Most of the NELS Governments have indicated that they do not see a future need for Loran-C as a publicly funded position-fixing infrastructure beyond the expiry date of the current agreement Some NELS Steering Committee representatives consider that the Loran-C infrastructure can continue to fulfill an important role, especially in the area of the land mobile market, funded by the private sector. The NELS Steering Committee recommends that NELS members now urgently consider the future of the infrastructure having regard in particular to: National positions Organizational arrangements Future uses, especially the land mobile use Future stakeholders, especially private stakeholders end quote. So hang in there - if we can retain 136 beyond 2005 there's hope yet! 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S8YW4OE6FCEnFHir1TqlFSca6gM1XmCqTWID4AFwhVYW3s0y13qv+3kefkFaotpFSyZKswRC mIYTb5qvFRuLt4CSAQQ13m2D6wKjF7uyPTiL8K+omKDylvlFLPuz8Kl3pwFKUJoAHmIAWpIU tFV7tf8gA9zzhwrVBN6NoVm7tm2bBuBDeMLGUBf3tn37tyUmETL4rPeAtgm2GMKGsoF7uWtF aMeyYZU2rW1303oLhZn7uqHkh2wLBIAITVKbYKcit0AQY7G7vNdjnzfWpxngHRIlq837vVe7 hiKS2+C7vrH7GA1DMIzbvvkbp8vGGNIgFuS6vwn8pXUNwOurwBW8tmdhEbhnwSEctHWm1cg7 wi1cpcvmXSQ7sS68w2t0dnTAui3JBT28xA/UiCUlsSGuwk28xUezJSqgRVp3pmrIxW1cP18l nXy6oFqEVSIAAAA7 --------------000907050805010902040202-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7924 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2001 16:17:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jul 2001 16:17:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 25688 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2001 16:16:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Jul 2001 16:16:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15JH4H-0002Hv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2001 17:05:57 +0100 Received: from smtp2.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.35.138] helo=smtp.wanadoo.nl) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15JH4D-0002Hq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2001 17:05:53 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from default (p0840.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.202.77]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.11.3/8.11.3) with SMTP id f68FvQj05472; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 17:57:26 +0200 (MEST) Message-ID: <200107081557.f68FvQj05472@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 17:57:41 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: "Canadian LowFer" Cc: "Lf [Amrad]" , "LF [RSGB]" , "Lofexp" , "LowFer [Egroups]" , "Lowfer [QthNet]" Subject: LF: Fw: [WUN] PLC sound sample X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From: "C.L. van Soelen" >To: wun@qth.net >Subject: [WUN] PLC sound sample >Hello, > >I have for anyone they are interested in Power Line Communication pollution. >A sound sample of this. >at http://www.inter.nl.net/hcc/Shortwave > > >Regards, c.l. van soelen > > > > >-- >The Worldwide UTE News (WUN) mailing list. WUN is a non-profit, >dues-free club established in 1995 to share information on shortwave >utilities. For more information: http://www.wunclub.com. Write to >listmaster@wunclub.com if you need assistance with the mailing list. > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24912 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2001 12:28:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jul 2001 12:28:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 9164 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2001 12:26:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 8 Jul 2001 12:26:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15JDZL-0000Kl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2001 13:21:47 +0100 Received: from mail1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.18]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15JDZJ-0000Kg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2001 13:21:45 +0100 Received: from modem-76.edain.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.169.76] helo=g3aqc) by mail1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15JDYb-0001u9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2001 13:21:01 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c107a8$923c2580$4ca9883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. Rx sensitivity again Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 13:21:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi Alan and All.
Alans comments re Reg's Groundwave program and DCF39 prompted me to get my F/S equipment out this morning. I use a  calibrated ferrite rod antenna and an SPM-3 Level meter.
DCF39 was producing 599 microvolts per metre here at 1200.
Using GROUNDWAVE 3 :-
Pwr 50KW
Ant. eff 80%
Ground 7
Dist 750Kms (guess)
gives a calculated field strength of 649 microvolts per metre
so perhaps my equipment is not too far out. But of course there are many variables.
Watch the static etc I lost my modem a coule of days ago, grounded the ants. but left modem connected. Wont do it again.
73s Laurie. 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11595 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2001 09:50:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jul 2001 09:50:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 19884 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2001 09:49:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Jul 2001 09:49:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15JB4G-0007V4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2001 10:41:32 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15JB4E-0007Uz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2001 10:41:31 +0100 Received: from [62.7.76.209] (helo=default) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #9) id 15JB3a-0003qL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2001 10:40:50 +0100 Message-ID: <000b01c10791$bcad2240$d14c073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Rx sensitivity again Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 10:37:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, as Reg has released a new version of his Groundwave program, I thought some results might be of interest, particularly to those struggling to decide whether they are getting the best from their receivers. The results are based on some figures that Dick PA0SE hase published previously for the field strength of the German Utility station DCF39 on 138.83kHz, and some measurements made here (Ipswich). Using Dick's measurement for the field strength of the Madeberg station of 2mV/m, at a distance of 494kms, and the known output power of 50kW, we come to a figure for the aerial efficiency of 80% over a ground condition of 7 (average ground). 80% may seem high for what we are used to with amateur aerials, but this has been suggest by Gammal as the target for most commercial installations. From the figures quoted for the big aerial at Rugby GBR (16kHz) I estimate that that would have an efficiency of around 85% is used at 136kHz. I am at a distance of about 700kms and using the same parameters leads to a figure of 0.812mV/m here. Which is well inline with the signals I receive in daytime from DCF39. This value also agrees well with the value measured by Dick around Old Windor at last year's HF Convention (0.7mV/m). Reg has added a 'twiddle' capability to the program which allows the incremental variation of several key parameters whilst watching the results be continuously calculated. I found this very useful fo see the effect of different parameters on the final value. I think by using these figures in Reg's program , and possibly his other programs for some aerial calculations, could help to check the effectiveness of a receiving setup, certainly in the UK. The figures show that my aerial is not as good as it should be, with an effective height of only 3m. This is probably due to effects of surrounding trees. At this distance there seems to be very little effect from daytime skywave although it is present. Look for a slow fading of the signal to detect this. I suggest for most that the ground values of 7 or 8 should give sensible field strength values. Of course if you build Dick's field strength meter or use his technique of measuring the signal on an untuned loop, you can get more exact results. Reg's web site URL http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp/page2.html#S209 http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp/grndwav3.exe Well it will passes the time while the static makes the band unpleasant to listen to. It seems to have chased away a lot of the activity this weekend. I have only heard Bob and Tom. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3717 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2001 09:46:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Jul 2001 09:46:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 15999 invoked from network); 8 Jul 2001 09:44:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Jul 2001 09:44:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15JAz3-0007NT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2001 10:36:09 +0100 Received: from fep01.swip.net ([130.244.199.129] helo=fep01-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15JAz1-0007NO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 Jul 2001 10:36:08 +0100 Received: from W98 ([212.151.45.0]) by fep01-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20010708093639.PKXC21692.fep01-svc.swip.net@W98> for ; Sun, 8 Jul 2001 11:36:39 +0200 Message-ID: <002701c10791$4b1982e0$002d97d4@W98.swipnet.se> From: "C Andersson" To: "RSGB LF Group" Subject: LF: SM1LCA now on LF Date: Sun, 8 Jul 2001 11:34:47 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: SM1LCA Kjell is now QRV on 136.8 kHz with 100W TX PWR. We had a QSO this morning which was a bit of a struggle due to heavy QRN. This was also the first test of my rotary loop for RX. It is octagonal with 2,8 m "diameter". Two turns connected directly to a 1:1 balun, 85 m RG58 and then a simple JFET preamp. It is resonant at 140 kHz and can simply be lowered in frequency by parallelling C's at the RX end. DCF39 can be brought down from S9+35 to S7. I don't know how deep "nulls" one can expect (in practice) from such a design. The loop is placed in an old shed some 60 m from the shack, away from all electrical lines. 73 Christer sm6pxj From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10182 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2001 15:23:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jul 2001 15:23:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 7300 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2001 15:22:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 7 Jul 2001 15:22:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Itqv-0006Vo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 07 Jul 2001 16:18:37 +0100 Received: from lepidachrosite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Itqu-0006Vj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 07 Jul 2001 16:18:36 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust150.tnt56.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.117.30.150]) by lepidachrosite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 5824BCB123 for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 15:16:45 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000801c106f8$d334e640$961e75d5@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Fw: New "grndwav3" released Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 17:22:59 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- Van: C Andersson Aan: RSGB LF Group Verzonden: zaterdag 7 juli 2001 15:43 Onderwerp: LF: New "grndwav3" released Reg G4FGQ has just relased new version of the GRNDWAV software. Hopefully the factor 1.41 error is corrected now. Yes, it is. Dick, PA0SE http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp/page2.html#S209 http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp/grndwav3.exe 73 Christer sm6pxj From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3067 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2001 13:55:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Jul 2001 13:55:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 22642 invoked from network); 7 Jul 2001 13:54:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 7 Jul 2001 13:54:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15IsNb-0005kI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 07 Jul 2001 14:44:15 +0100 Received: from fep02.swip.net ([130.244.199.130] helo=fep02-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15IsNa-0005kD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 07 Jul 2001 14:44:14 +0100 Received: from W98 ([212.151.39.112]) by fep02-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20010707134324.NXUZ22128.fep02-svc.swip.net@W98> for ; Sat, 7 Jul 2001 15:43:24 +0200 Message-ID: <00d901c106ea$c9bcebc0$702797d4@W98.swipnet.se> From: "C Andersson" To: "RSGB LF Group" Subject: LF: New "grndwav3" released Date: Sat, 7 Jul 2001 15:43:20 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Reg G4FGQ has just relased new version of the GRNDWAV software. Hopefully the factor 1.41 error is corrected now. http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp/page2.html#S209 http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp/grndwav3.exe 73 Christer sm6pxj From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20424 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2001 15:03:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jul 2001 15:03:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 2491 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2001 15:02:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Jul 2001 15:02:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15IX27-0002Rk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2001 15:56:39 +0100 Received: from ncc2.infomail.es ([195.235.39.4] helo=infomail.es) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15IX1t-0002Rd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2001 15:56:26 +0100 Received: from p133 ([195.53.206.246]) by infomail.es (Tid InfoMail Exchanger v2.20) with SMTP id #994431092.206230001; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 16:51:32 +0200 Message-ID: <000a01c1062b$fae29c00$f6ce35c3@p133> From: "FEDERICO OLAIZOLA ZABALA" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Carrier frequency voltmeter Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 16:50:23 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Infomail-Id: 994431092.508F010A811067.51637 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Wanted information abt:
 
            CARRIER FREQUENCY VOLTMETER
        Sierra Electronics Corp. -  San Carlos  - California
                Model 103 A
                Dial  5 to 40 Khz
                Attenuator  -60 to + 40 dB
                12 tubes,  constructed abt 1965
 
I have one.
 
                Mni TNX  es best 73.
                                                    Federico    EA2HB
               
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19176 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2001 12:26:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jul 2001 12:26:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 2476 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2001 12:25:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Jul 2001 12:25:55 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15IULj-0000tI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2001 13:04:43 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [32.97.182.101] (helo=e1.ny.us.ibm.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15IULf-0000tB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2001 13:04:39 +0100 Received: from northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (northrelay01.pok.ibm.com [9.117.200.21]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA161214; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 07:58:37 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (ss9.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.75]) by northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v4.96) with ESMTP id f66C0NV197648; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 08:00:24 -0400 Message-ID: <3B45A843.975A965A@usa.net> Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 14:00:03 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Mailing List" , lowfer@qth.net, lf@amrad.org Subject: LF: Results of the transformer transplant on the TS-950SDX Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, a few weeks ago I vented here my dissatisfaction about the performance on the LF band of my TS-950SDX, searching for help on how to wind a replacement toroidal transformer for its input stage. Now this story has come to an end, a positive one. If you want to read how my 950 has been resurrected to a new (LF) life, thanks to the contrbutions of two very kind OMs, please have a look here : http://www.qsl.net/i2phd/TS950/change.html 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14116 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2001 10:06:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jul 2001 10:06:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 264 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2001 10:05:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Jul 2001 10:05:45 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ISOC-0008HK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2001 10:59:08 +0100 Received: from [204.202.140.198] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ISOB-0008HF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2001 10:59:07 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gomailjtp01 ([10.212.0.161]) by mta06.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GG100L91QC7V8@mta06.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 02:57:43 -0700 (PDT) Date: Fri, 06 Jul 2001 02:57:45 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Sexton" Subject: Re: LF: The Other Man To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <8351736.994413465552.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Steve, Hi Vic, I looked through my list of stations and found that I have heard Vic at least once, so you are at least getting as far as Reading. Unfortunately I don't have a record of the date nor signal strength, but will listen out again and report when I hear something. Your situation sounds very similar to mine, with big trees that tend to absorb everything. My first receiver was also a Super Regen, which worked very well, but bears no comparison with the AOR 7030 that I subsequently purchased. The main problems were accuracy, bandwidth and knowing exactly where you were listening. I still use it occasionally with a second antenna for dual frequency monitoring, so don't scrap it. Good luck with Dx and I shall be listening out for the call sign. 73, John, G4CNN -----Original Message----- From: "Steve Rawlings" To: "LF Group" Date: Thu Jul 05 10:26:50 PDT 2001 Subject: LF: The Other Man's Station: G8IK >Hi All,> >Vic G8IK, located in Solihull, Birmingham, has been kind enough >to write a personal account describing his first 2 years on LF. >Vic writes: > >Initial 73 kHz tests >-------------------- >Seeking fresh fields, and pastures new, I thought I'd have a go >at 73 - not very optimistic but I thought maybe someone else in >this region might be similarly motivated. Luckily I had just >purchased some coils at a rally and had sufficient for a simple >receiver. I used FETs in three RF stages followed by a voltage >doubling detector with regeneration to improve selectivity, then >the usual audio stages. The coils were single windings with no >coupling coils, so I used resistance capacity coupling between >stages with very small coupling capacities to minimise damping of >the tuned circuits. I have a number of accurate oscillators >which, with Rugby, helped me to find the band. The receiver >worked well, with plenty of gain and selectivity. > >For the rig, I used a small ferrite rod antenna, with a BC108 as >oscillator tuned to the band with two 2000 pF compression >trimmers, which drove two TIP126s in parallel. Using an 80 ohm >power meter as load, these delivered 30 watts or more at 350 mA >80 v. In spite of a reasonable heatsink they overheated after a >few minutes, so I made a multi-vibrator with an on-off ratio of >1:1, driving an on-off relay which enabled the rig to run for >long periods. I wound a 2.5 litre drum full of 22 SWG wire (with >taps) and, with the present antenna extended to about 170 ft >(twice its present length), this resonated somewhere near the >band. I had a variometer (a museum piece) which proved excellent >for fine tuning. With everything in order, I switched the gear >on and made my way, with the receiver, to a colleague who has a >substantial antenna and who lives about a mile away, hoping that >the signal would travel at least this distance, but no - not a >trace! > >Success on 136 kHz >------------------ >136, I thought, offered more promise as the antenna would be >effectively twice as high and twice as long. I retuned the gear >to the new band and, to my delight, had a reply to my first CQ >call: only seven miles away (G3YXM) but it was a start, and, to >my amazement, this was followed by reports from G4GVC and GW4ALG. > >Thus encouraged, I decided to build a 200 watt rig - I had the >main ingredients: two high voltage transformers, a 50 watt >tetrode and two high voltage variable capacitors (45 pF >Eddystone, ca 1935). I assembled all this on a 3 ft x 1 ft >board with a hardboard panel of similar size, using the existing >rig (down-powered) as the driver. My main problem was getting >the right L/C ratio for the anode coil and, at the same time, >allowing for the two variable capacitors (in parallel) to give >some degree of tuning. I partly solved this by tapping the anode >half-way down the coil (a 2.5 litre drum two thirds full of 22 >SWG) and using rather less than the optimum tuning capacity (700 >pF instead of 800-1000 pF). I wound a coupling coil at the cold >end of the coil, and was ready to go. I'd arranged the power >supplies to give me 500, 1000, or with the two in series, 1500 >volts, and with full power almost burnt out two one-hundred watt >lamps! Before going on the air, I was concerned about that L/C >ratio, so I had a look at the waveform - it was dreadful - I >visualised strings of harmonics every 136 kHz well into the HF >region. I amended matters by reducing the grid drive from about >8 to 2 mA (with only a slight loss of efficiency), and included a >low pass filter in the output. > >I was now up and running, but at this stage the lack of >'operateability' of the receiver became a problem - I had to >jiggle two RF tuning controls; regeneration; and BFO, so decided >to build a superhet. I used 2 MHz for the IF (for which I could >wind coils) with a simple bridge circuit for the crystal filter >in which the capacity of the crystal (plus holder) is balanced by >a variable 'phasing' capacitor - which gives wide control of >selectivity: at exact balance, it was extremely sharp. > >The receiver works well and I have no trouble 'winkling' out the >DX, but have been disappointed in not being able to work outside >the British Isles. I have hopes, next autumn, of making >improvements to the antenna, at present only 80 ft long and >barely 20 ft high. I have some tall trees at the bottom of the >garden which either must go, or else serve as supports for the >end of the antenna (I am thinking an archer might help!). > >Vic Morse, G8IK > ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6779 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2001 09:39:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Jul 2001 09:39:12 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 17946 invoked from network); 6 Jul 2001 09:38:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Jul 2001 09:38:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15IRtg-0007zk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2001 10:27:36 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.89]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15IRtf-0007zf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2001 10:27:36 +0100 Received: from bayswater0.demon.co.uk ([212.228.0.166] helo=hainalt.screaming.net) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15IRtk-000Hw7-0V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 10:27:42 +0100 Message-ID: <2uTFUTAx2XR7Ewoy@hainault.screaming.net> Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 09:58:25 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Irene & Les Whitehead" Subject: LF: Please disconnect me until then! MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 5.01 U Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: We will be leaving for Lanzarote tomorrow and will not return until till the 1st of September. Please disconnect me until then! 73, -- 73, Les Whitehead, G6XJC From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16562 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 23:49:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 23:49:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 698 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 23:48:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 23:48:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15IInT-0002t6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2001 00:44:35 +0100 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15IInS-0002t1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2001 00:44:34 +0100 Received: from [213.1.135.141] (helo=default) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #9) id 15IImo-0005Yp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2001 00:43:54 +0100 Message-ID: <003901c105ac$167d2aa0$8d8701d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: re 12in uPVC pipe Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 23:39:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Julian, hard luck, we are all skinflints and couldn't bear to think of the postage costs !! Hi. Have you tried the famous microwave oven test on a bit of the material?? I suggest if it passes that saw it up and load the bits in the back of the car when you come down to the LF Convention (Whoops I think they prefer to call it the HF convention !!) at Old Windsor.....you will find you will be able to give away any amount of the stuff. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27756 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 23:39:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 23:39:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 20093 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 23:38:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 23:38:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15IIcp-0002lG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2001 00:33:35 +0100 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15IIcn-0002lB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2001 00:33:33 +0100 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.178.75]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010705233217.TSPD3826279.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:32:17 +1200 Message-ID: <01e601c105ab$3db67a00$8bb21bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000c01c10546$abbb1a20$3c27893e@g3aqc> Subject: LF: DX window for ZL Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 11:34:58 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Rik,

The information on the ZL6QH to VE7SL confirmation has been sent to a number of amateurs.  A schedule for 7 July has also been posted widely, including to the RSGB reflector.

> .... we would only need to find a 'clear spot' of 1Hz between 160 and
> 190kHz (the closer to 190kHz the better the chances ?).

Yes to that.  We spent quite a time to identify frequencies that were reasonably clear in the Pacific zone, but as it turned out there was weak co-channel QRM on the selected 184.4000 kHz frequency for Pacific area QRSS tests.  That is why we have a QSY of -0.1 Hz for the next test, so ZL4OL on 184.3999 kHz would be reasonably clear (assuming the QRM stays on 184.4000 kHz!).  Also ZL6QH is narrowing the shift from 1 Hz to 0.4 Hz, to have more chance of both frequencies being captured on an Argo screen.

If you find a few Hz of clear spectrum within 165 - 190 kHz (it needs to be within our allocated band), we can arrange to transmit.  I think the 190 kHz end of the band offers best propagation prospects.  We are also hopeful of
getting access to 136 kHz, but leave that possibility aside for now, but with multiple bands we could think about full duplex QSOs during an opening .....

While we are fairly bouyant at present from the results of 11,709 km DX last weekend, I should also point out that some downunder listening has been done on EU long wave AM broadcast frequencies, and so far nothing has been heard.
Also I have been listening out for 90 second dots from VA3LK most nights for several months, and not seen other than noise and some QRM on Argo screens.  But we live in hope.

73, Bob
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2112 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 23:09:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 23:09:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 17844 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 23:08:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 23:08:23 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15II8M-0002V3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2001 00:02:06 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15II8L-0002Uy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Jul 2001 00:02:05 +0100 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.87.236]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 20:00:43 -0300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B452B0C.BC6434E@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 23:05:48 -0400 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Claim of ZL to VE7 amateur LF DX References: <6c.c6cfce8.2870f2fe@aol.com> <013101c104f6$de84de00$2eb51bca@rvernall> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Congrats to all on transpacific . I would like to see the data . How about some trials on my sunset or before ? 73 de John VE1ZJ Vernall wrote: > CLAIM OF ZL TO VE AMATEUR LF DX > 5 July 2001 > > On Saturday 30 June ZL1WB, ZL6QH, ZL3VN, ZL3FJ, ZL3PN, ZL3JE, ZL4OL and > AX2TAR (VK7ZAL) transmitted test signals in the 160 - 190 kHz band, for > so-called trans-Pacific tests. Various DX listeners had prior knowledge of > the schedule of individual test frequency and coding used by each station. > > Steve VE7SL, located on Mayne Island, some 40 km northwest of Victoria, > British Columbia, managed to capture some interesting signals using an Icom > IC-R75 receiver along with a PC with sound card, running Argo software. > >From an analysis of the screen capture, it is claimed that VE7SL received > and positively identified signals from ZL6QH (operators were Andrew ZL2BBJ > and Bob ZL2CA). It is also very likely that signals were received from Mike > ZL4OL, but co-channel interference made the result too indistinct to obtain > positive identification of coding. The propagation opening was around VE7 > sunrise time. The path length from the ZL6QH transmitter, at Quartz Hill, > near Wellington, New Zealand, is estimated as being 11,709 km. > > A three page WORD file, an Argo screen capture and a graphic of the VE7SL 10 > foot loop receiving antenna can be privately emailed to those who request > copies. > > Bob Vernall ZL2CA > Organiser of the Trans-Pacific tests From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19043 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 21:31:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 21:31:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 4069 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 21:30:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 21:30:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15IGe0-0001Zb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 22:26:40 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail-5.tiscalinet.it ([195.130.225.151] helo=mail.tiscalinet.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15IGdz-0001ZW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 22:26:39 +0100 Received: from orion.pii.net (62.11.70.97) by mail.tiscalinet.it (5.5.031) id 3B402C640014F7B9 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 23:25:28 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from clapo@localhost) by orion.pii.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id XAA00708 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 23:32:45 +0200 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on Linux X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 23:32:45 +0200 (CEST) From: "Claudio" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: new lf page and new lowfer Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I'm ready to make some test on 136 kHz. In this week end I plan to make some CQ on QRSS. QRG and time will be posted to morrow on the reflector. My station is described on www.qsl.net/ik2pii. 73 de ik2pii ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Claudio Pozzi http://www.qsl.net/ik2pii happy Linux user E-Mail: Claudio Date: 05-Jul-01 Time: 23:27:30 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3975 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 21:14:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 21:14:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 24826 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 21:13:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 21:13:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15IGN1-0001QK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 22:09:07 +0100 Received: from hermes-2.bizonline.net ([212.95.128.6] helo=publiconline.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15IGN0-0001QF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 22:09:06 +0100 Received: (qmail 30334 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 21:08:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO default) (213.108.23.206) by hermes-2.bizonline.net with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 21:08:21 -0000 Message-ID: <000201c10596$d32783a0$ce176cd5@default> From: "Julian Hardstone" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200107021910_MC3-D7D9-397F@compuserve.com> Subject: LF: Re: Re: 12in Pipe Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 00:13:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Oh, Bah! Thanks for the warning, Roger. UPVC must still be too lossy for RF. Besides, nobody wanted the pipe, except me. Regards - Julian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24559 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 20:14:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 20:14:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 21845 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 20:13:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 20:13:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15IFNZ-0000mD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 21:05:37 +0100 Received: from mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15IFNX-0000m8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 21:05:36 +0100 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.181.44]) by mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010705200441.LUMP2773532.mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Fri, 6 Jul 2001 08:04:41 +1200 Message-ID: <005201c1058e$3dcfad80$8bb21bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <013101c104f6$de84de00$2eb51bca@rvernall> <3.0.1.16.20010705120858.218fe35c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: LF: Tests this Saturday Date: Fri, 6 Jul 2001 07:56:24 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To all on the RSGB reflector, As there is now wider interest in the tests, following the ZL to VE7 result last weekend, this information is (somewhat optimistically) being posted to the RSGB reflector. I would also like to wish Mike ZL4OL all the best in bettering the result this coming weekend (he is further south of ZL6QH, so the path to VE7 is some 598 km further). 73, Bob ZL2CA ZL6QH and ZL4OL QRSS TESTING 7 JULY ZL6QH and ZL4OL are conducting further slow rate digital mode test transmissions this coming Saturday, on the frequency of 184.3999 kHz. ZL6QH will transmit from 0500 - 1230 UTC, and ZL4OL 1045 - 1215 UTC (targeting sunrise time in VE7). The transmission format for ZL6QH is dual frequency keying, with 0.4 Hz shift, and "dot length" of 120 seconds. The identifier is Q, sent as "dah dah dit dah", with "dah" as 184.4001 kHz and "dit" as 184.3997 kHz. Dual frequency keying has equal length elements for "dit" and "dah", and only a brief transition between elements, to save time with very slow keying, so each Q in the ten minute repetitious sequence of QQQQQ. has the following format: Dah of 184.4001 kHz for 2 minutes, then a brief pause Dah of 184.4001 kHz for 2 minutes, then a brief pause Dit of 184.3997 kHz for 2 minutes, then a brief pause Dah of 184.4001 kHz for 2 minutes A silent period of 2 minutes Repeated for the whole session The transmission format for ZL4OL is single frequency keying, with 184.3999 kHz carrier, and 120 second "dot length". This is deliberately arranged to be "inbetween" the dual frequency keying of ZL6QH, and allows one correctly tuned Argo screen to be able to capture either signal. The identifier is O, sent as "dah dah dah", so each O in the 15 minute repetitious sequence of OOOOO. has the following format: Dah of 184.3999 kHz for 2 minutes Silent for 2 minutes Dah of 184.3999 kHz for 2 minutes Silent for 2 minutes Dah of 184.3999 kHz for 2 minutes Silent for 5 minutes Repeated for the whole session From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5233 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 19:38:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 19:38:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 28906 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 19:37:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 19:37:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15IErt-0000Ud-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 20:32:53 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail-7.tiscalinet.it ([195.130.225.153] helo=mail.tiscalinet.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15IErs-0000UY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 20:32:52 +0100 Received: from orion.pii.net (62.11.65.12) by mail.tiscalinet.it (5.5.031) id 3B42159400100ECD for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 21:31:41 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from clapo@localhost) by orion.pii.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id VAA00814 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 21:39:12 +0200 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on Linux X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-reply-to: <005d01c0fe76$e6a457e0$ad2c1bd4@rci> Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 21:39:12 +0200 (CEST) From: "Claudio" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: freq: monitor ?? Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On 26-Jun-01 f6kaw radio club d'ivry wrote: >>>From Pascal, F5PNP.... > > I'm a very, very newcomer in the world of LF...I visited a lot of sites > on internet to collect some informations about the activity, and plan to > built the little transmitter from GW4ALG (the marathon...)when i will find > the way to change the 3c85 core by another one...hi !!! ('cause impossible > to find it in FRANCE...).... > snip I'm just uploaded on my web site the description of a 200 W transmitter that doesn't use 3c85 cores. In the article I explain how to design an output stage using a surplus toroid core. I think that you can find some toroid cores coming from switching power supply and build your transformer. see you soon on the band Claudio http://www.qsl.net/ik2pii ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Claudio Pozzi http://www.qsl.net/ik2pii happy Linux user E-Mail: Claudio Date: 05-Jul-01 Time: 21:29:05 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3714 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 17:29:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 17:29:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 3013 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 17:28:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 17:28:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ICpP-0007r2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 18:22:11 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15ICpH-0007qx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 18:22:07 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15ICnl-000KgK-0Y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 18:20:29 +0100 Message-ID: <3B44A35A.353170AF@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 18:26:50 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: The Other Man's Station: G8IK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, Vic G8IK, located in Solihull, Birmingham, has been kind enough to write a personal account describing his first 2 years on LF. Vic writes: Initial 73 kHz tests -------------------- Seeking fresh fields, and pastures new, I thought I'd have a go at 73 - not very optimistic but I thought maybe someone else in this region might be similarly motivated. Luckily I had just purchased some coils at a rally and had sufficient for a simple receiver. I used FETs in three RF stages followed by a voltage doubling detector with regeneration to improve selectivity, then the usual audio stages. The coils were single windings with no coupling coils, so I used resistance capacity coupling between stages with very small coupling capacities to minimise damping of the tuned circuits. I have a number of accurate oscillators which, with Rugby, helped me to find the band. The receiver worked well, with plenty of gain and selectivity. For the rig, I used a small ferrite rod antenna, with a BC108 as oscillator tuned to the band with two 2000 pF compression trimmers, which drove two TIP126s in parallel. Using an 80 ohm power meter as load, these delivered 30 watts or more at 350 mA 80 v. In spite of a reasonable heatsink they overheated after a few minutes, so I made a multi-vibrator with an on-off ratio of 1:1, driving an on-off relay which enabled the rig to run for long periods. I wound a 2.5 litre drum full of 22 SWG wire (with taps) and, with the present antenna extended to about 170 ft (twice its present length), this resonated somewhere near the band. I had a variometer (a museum piece) which proved excellent for fine tuning. With everything in order, I switched the gear on and made my way, with the receiver, to a colleague who has a substantial antenna and who lives about a mile away, hoping that the signal would travel at least this distance, but no - not a trace! Success on 136 kHz ------------------ 136, I thought, offered more promise as the antenna would be effectively twice as high and twice as long. I retuned the gear to the new band and, to my delight, had a reply to my first CQ call: only seven miles away (G3YXM) but it was a start, and, to my amazement, this was followed by reports from G4GVC and GW4ALG. Thus encouraged, I decided to build a 200 watt rig - I had the main ingredients: two high voltage transformers, a 50 watt tetrode and two high voltage variable capacitors (45 pF Eddystone, ca 1935). I assembled all this on a 3 ft x 1 ft board with a hardboard panel of similar size, using the existing rig (down-powered) as the driver. My main problem was getting the right L/C ratio for the anode coil and, at the same time, allowing for the two variable capacitors (in parallel) to give some degree of tuning. I partly solved this by tapping the anode half-way down the coil (a 2.5 litre drum two thirds full of 22 SWG) and using rather less than the optimum tuning capacity (700 pF instead of 800-1000 pF). I wound a coupling coil at the cold end of the coil, and was ready to go. I'd arranged the power supplies to give me 500, 1000, or with the two in series, 1500 volts, and with full power almost burnt out two one-hundred watt lamps! Before going on the air, I was concerned about that L/C ratio, so I had a look at the waveform - it was dreadful - I visualised strings of harmonics every 136 kHz well into the HF region. I amended matters by reducing the grid drive from about 8 to 2 mA (with only a slight loss of efficiency), and included a low pass filter in the output. I was now up and running, but at this stage the lack of 'operateability' of the receiver became a problem - I had to jiggle two RF tuning controls; regeneration; and BFO, so decided to build a superhet. I used 2 MHz for the IF (for which I could wind coils) with a simple bridge circuit for the crystal filter in which the capacity of the crystal (plus holder) is balanced by a variable 'phasing' capacitor - which gives wide control of selectivity: at exact balance, it was extremely sharp. The receiver works well and I have no trouble 'winkling' out the DX, but have been disappointed in not being able to work outside the British Isles. I have hopes, next autumn, of making improvements to the antenna, at present only 80 ft long and barely 20 ft high. I have some tall trees at the bottom of the garden which either must go, or else serve as supports for the end of the antenna (I am thinking an archer might help!). Vic Morse, G8IK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8393 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 13:36:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 13:36:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 1441 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 13:35:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 13:35:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15I9Co-0005sG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 14:30:06 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp5vepub.gte.net ([206.46.170.26] helo=smtp5ve.mailsrvcs.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15I9Cj-0005ro-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 14:30:01 +0100 Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-117-147.bellatlantic.net [151.200.117.147]) by smtp5ve.mailsrvcs.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA24059339; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 13:28:40 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3B446BC3.98753F64@bellatlantic.net> Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 09:29:39 -0400 From: "Andre Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Bob Vernall ZL2CA" Cc: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, "AMRAD Tacos" , "lf-amrad" Subject: Re: LF: Claim of ZL to VE7 amateur LF DX References: <6c.c6cfce8.2870f2fe@aol.com> <013101c104f6$de84de00$2eb51bca@rvernall> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by smtp5ve.mailsrvcs.net id NAA24059339 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Bob and all, congratulations ! Great job :-) André N4ICK Vernall wrote: > > CLAIM OF ZL TO VE AMATEUR LF DX > 5 July 2001 > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5542 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 11:46:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 11:46:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 22655 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 11:45:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 11:45:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15I7QP-0004no-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 12:36:01 +0100 Received: from cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.173]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15I7QL-0004nj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 12:35:57 +0100 Received: from modem-60.lyre-tailed-anthias.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.39.60] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15I7Pg-0000BT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 12:35:16 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c10546$abbb1a20$3c27893e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. Claim of ZL to VE7 amaueur LF DX. Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 12:34:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
I should like to add my congratulations to Steve and all involved in this outstanding event,11,907kms-thats going to be hard to beat. I would appreciate details of ERP and ants,both TX and Rx.
73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21741 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 11:27:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 11:27:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 25366 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 11:25:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 11:25:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15I77m-0004e1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 12:16:46 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ab6qv.lm1.net ([209.221.203.114] helo=gw.ab6qv.ampr.org) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15I77k-0004dw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 12:16:45 +0100 X-BBS-Msg-Type: P Date: Thu, 05 Jul 01 04:14:23 -0700 Message-ID: <17843@gw.ab6qv.ampr.org> From: yo2is@gw.ab6qv.ampr.org To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Claim of ZL to VE7 amateur LF DX In-reply-to: your message of Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:03:40 +1200. <013101c104f6$de84de00$2eb51bca@rvernall> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit From: YO2IS Hi Bob, congratulations for the superb LF-DX achievement. Wouls like to have the info files. Thanks for your time. 73 / DX, Szigy. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14301 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 11:20:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 11:20:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 26466 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 11:19:16 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 11:19:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15I71L-0004dC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 12:10:07 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15I70t-0004cj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 12:09:39 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA1171092 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 13:08:58 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010705120858.218fe35c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 12:08:58 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Claim of ZL to VE7 amateur LF DX In-reply-to: <3B44316D.19970.ECD8C@localhost> References: <013101c104f6$de84de00$2eb51bca@rvernall> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Just got this for the lofexp reflector, so if anyone in Europe wants to give it a try ... 73, Rik X-eGroups-Return: sentto-1152098-547-994329720-rik.strobbe=fys.kuleuven.ac.be@returns.onelist. com X-Sender: vernall@xtra.co.nz X-Apparently-To: lofexp@yahoogroups.com To: X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V5.00.2314.1300 From: "Vernall" Mailing-List: list lofexp@yahoogroups.com; contact lofexp-owner@yahoogroups.com List-Unsubscribe: Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 22:41:22 +1200 Reply-To: lofexp@yahoogroups.com Subject: [lofexp] Further QRSS tests on 7 July ZL6QH and ZL4OL QRSS TESTING 7 JULY ZL6QH and ZL4OL are conducting further slow rate digital mode test transmissions this coming Saturday, on the frequency of 184.3999 kHz. ZL6QH will transmit from 0500 - 1230 UTC, and ZL4OL 1045 - 1215 UTC (targeting sunrise time in VE7). The transmission format for ZL6QH is dual frequency keying, with 0.4 Hz shift, and "dot length" of 120 seconds. The identifier is Q, sent as "dah dah dit dah", with "dah" as 184.4001 kHz and "dit" as 184.3997 kHz. Dual frequency keying has equal length elements for "dit" and "dah", and only a brief transition between elements, to save time with very slow keying, so each Q in the ten minute repetitious sequence of QQQQQ. has the following format: Dah of 184.4001 kHz for 2 minutes, then a brief pause Dah of 184.4001 kHz for 2 minutes, then a brief pause Dit of 184.3997 kHz for 2 minutes, then a brief pause Dah of 184.4001 kHz for 2 minutes A silent period of 2 minutes Repeated for the whole session The transmission format for ZL4OL is single frequency keying, with 184.3999 kHz carrier, and 120 second "dot length". This is deliberately arranged to be "inbetween" the dual frequency keying of ZL6QH, and allows one correctly tuned Argo screen to be able to capture either signal. The identifier is O, sent as "dah dah dah", so each O in the 15 minute repetitious sequence of OOOOO. has the following format: Dah of 184.3999 kHz for 2 minutes Silent for 2 minutes Dah of 184.3999 kHz for 2 minutes Silent for 2 minutes Dah of 184.3999 kHz for 2 minutes Silent for 5 minutes Repeated for the whole session 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23327 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 09:49:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 09:49:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 21839 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 09:48:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 09:48:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15I5fG-0003oW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 10:43:14 +0100 Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15I5fB-0003oQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 10:43:09 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.22.) id l.116.130fbfe (4598) for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 05:41:58 -0400 (EDT) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <116.130fbfe.28759066@aol.com> Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 05:41:58 EDT Subject: Re: LF: Re: 73kHz activity Tuesday morning To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 107 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 7/5/01 9:12:49 AM GMT Daylight Time, john.stace@ntlworld.com writes: << Subj: LF: Re: 73kHz activity Tuesday morning Date: 7/5/01 9:12:49 AM GMT Daylight Time From: john.stace@ntlworld.com (john.stace) Sender: majordom@post.thorcom.com Reply-to: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Hello Jim . On Tuesday morning I heard you on 73 Khz RST339 . Altogether I heard four stations but only yourself and G3AQC positively identified . One of the unreadble sigs was probably someone calling G3AQC because the frequency difference was only a few tens of hertz . I have been qrv on 73 for about 3 years and in that time have only heard G3YXM Dave. Do not have enough power here on 73 to get far as best dx is across town only with power from audio chip of a bout 5 watts or so , erp only in microwatts. All I need now is some real power . Aerial is inverted L six meters high and 20 mtr top loading. >> Hello John. It's good to hear you have some equipment up and running. I'm sure several people would like to try for a QSO with you altrhough 'random' QSOs on that band are the exception rather than the rule. Perhaps you could post a detail or two about your location and whether you are able to use one of the weak signal QRSS packages on the computer. 73 David G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26982 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 09:39:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 09:39:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 2023 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 09:38:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 09:38:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15I5V2-0003h7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 10:32:40 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from e31.co.us.ibm.com ([32.97.110.129] helo=e31.bld.us.ibm.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15I5V1-0003h2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 10:32:39 +0100 Received: from westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com [9.99.140.22]) by e31.bld.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id FAA95288 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 05:23:57 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (ss4.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.69]) by westrelay01.boulder.ibm.com (8.11.1m3/NCO v4.96.1.0) with ESMTP id f659VqI202204 for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 03:31:52 -0600 Message-ID: <3B4433F9.D454CDF2@usa.net> Date: Thu, 05 Jul 2001 11:31:37 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Claim of ZL to VE7 amateur LF DX References: <6c.c6cfce8.2870f2fe@aol.com> <013101c104f6$de84de00$2eb51bca@rvernall> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Vernall wrote: > CLAIM OF ZL TO VE AMATEUR LF DX > 5 July 2001 > [...] > A three page WORD file, an Argo screen capture and a graphic of the VE7SL 10 > foot loop receiving antenna can be privately emailed to those who request > copies. > [...] Bob, lot of congratulations, and I am happy to have contributed, albeit in a very small amount, to that feat. I would like to receive the doc you mention, for my private collection. Thanks. What's next ? Europe to Japan ? Do they have any LF band ? 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28572 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 08:35:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 08:35:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 1769 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 08:34:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 08:34:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15I4V1-0003AG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 09:28:35 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15I4Uj-0003A9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 09:28:19 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v4.0.0.R) for ; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 09:20:46 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 09:20:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Claim of ZL to VE7 amateur LF DX Message-ID: <3B44316D.19970.ECD8C@localhost> In-reply-to: <013101c104f6$de84de00$2eb51bca@rvernall> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > CLAIM OF ZL TO VE AMATEUR LF DX > 5 July 2001 > On Saturday 30 June ZL1WB, ZL6QH, ZL3VN, ZL3FJ, ZL3PN, ZL3JE, ZL4OL and > AX2TAR (VK7ZAL) transmitted test signals in the 160 - 190 kHz band, for > so-called trans-Pacific tests. Various DX listeners had prior knowledge of the > schedule of individual test frequency and coding used by each station. > Steve VE7SL, located on Mayne Island, some 40 km northwest of Victoria, > British Columbia, managed to capture some interesting signals using an Icom > IC-R75 receiver along with a PC with sound card, running Argo software. >>From an > analysis of the screen capture, it is claimed that VE7SL received and positively > identified signals from ZL6QH (operators were Andrew ZL2BBJ and Bob ZL2CA). Congratulations to all concerned in this interesting test. I wonder why it was not previously publicised via this group. Although European broadcasters would have made listening impossible, it was surely of great interest. What was ZL6QH's ERP, RF power and antenna size. Also what "coding" was used? Was there a callsign, was it QRSS, what bit rate? I would appreciate the Word file etc, so that I can give the event publicity through the RSGB's news outlets. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19534 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 08:16:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 08:16:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 18043 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 08:15:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 08:15:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15I4BY-00031R-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 09:08:28 +0100 Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.45]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15I4BV-00031M-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 09:08:25 +0100 Received: from j.stace ([62.255.226.95]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010705080742.GYLC284.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@j.stace> for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 09:07:42 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c10529$8f5b2e00$5fe2ff3e@stace> From: "john.stace" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: 73kHz activity Tuesday morning Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 09:07:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Jim . On Tuesday morning I heard you on 73 Khz RST339 . Altogether I heard four stations but only yourself and G3AQC positively identified . One of the unreadble sigs was probably someone calling G3AQC because the frequency difference was only a few tens of hertz . I have been qrv on 73 for about 3 years and in that time have only heard G3YXM Dave. Do not have enough power here on 73 to get far as best dx is across town only with power from audio chip of a bout 5 watts or so , erp only in microwatts. All I need now is some real power . Aerial is inverted L six meters high and 20 mtr top loading. 73 John. Email address is john.stace@ntlworld.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18390 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 06:41:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 06:41:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 3465 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 06:40:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 06:40:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15I2gs-0002A6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 07:32:42 +0100 Received: from ns2.etecsa.net ([206.49.67.1] helo=mxb.etecsa.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15I2gp-0002A1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 07:32:40 +0100 Received: (from daemon@localhost) by mxb.etecsa.net (8.8.8+Sun/8.8.8) id CAA27738 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 02:31:54 -0400 (EDT) Received: from ppp-120hav1.pppi.etecsa.cu(216.72.26.120), claiming to be "user" via SMTP by opcional, id smtpdAAAnPRij_; Thu Jul 5 02:31:53 2001 Message-ID: <03d501c1051c$2a300da0$0501a8c0@user> From: "Prof. Arnaldo Coro Antich" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <6c.c6cfce8.2870f2fe@aol.com> <013101c104f6$de84de00$2eb51bca@rvernall> Subject: LF: RE: Claim of ZL to VE7 amateur LF DX Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 01:28:15 -0400 Organization: ICRT Radio Habana Cuba MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi amigo Bob ! Please send me the files related to the Trans Pacific Test There is a very interesing all year round and all solar cycle round propagation path from here CUBA to NEW ZEALAND, as it happens that NZ is our closest land mass to the ANTIPODE. Have worked ZL stations here on the 80 meter band running less than 1 watt SSB many times and 200 mW CW. Maybe we could think about setting up a test on LF. At present I may RX only on LF 100 kHz to 530 kHz with Super Ferrite Rod antenna. NO LOOP here yet, so the graphic of the loop antenna is very important. Peter G3LDO was visiting here in Havana and we had a one full day exchange here at my home regarding LF, while Erica and Olga ( Peter's wife and yours truly XYL ) had an English-Spanish practice lesson ... 73 and DX Arnie Coro CO2KK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28912 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 02:15:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 02:15:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 24856 invoked from network); 5 Jul 2001 02:14:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Jul 2001 02:14:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HyW1-0008TQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 03:05:13 +0100 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HyW0-0008TL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Jul 2001 03:05:12 +0100 Received: from rvernall ([202.27.178.179]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010705020357.JEWG3826279.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@rvernall> for ; Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:03:57 +1200 Message-ID: <013101c104f6$de84de00$2eb51bca@rvernall> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <6c.c6cfce8.2870f2fe@aol.com> Subject: LF: Claim of ZL to VE7 amateur LF DX Date: Thu, 5 Jul 2001 14:03:40 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: CLAIM OF ZL TO VE AMATEUR LF DX 5 July 2001 On Saturday 30 June ZL1WB, ZL6QH, ZL3VN, ZL3FJ, ZL3PN, ZL3JE, ZL4OL and AX2TAR (VK7ZAL) transmitted test signals in the 160 - 190 kHz band, for so-called trans-Pacific tests. Various DX listeners had prior knowledge of the schedule of individual test frequency and coding used by each station. Steve VE7SL, located on Mayne Island, some 40 km northwest of Victoria, British Columbia, managed to capture some interesting signals using an Icom IC-R75 receiver along with a PC with sound card, running Argo software. >From an analysis of the screen capture, it is claimed that VE7SL received and positively identified signals from ZL6QH (operators were Andrew ZL2BBJ and Bob ZL2CA). It is also very likely that signals were received from Mike ZL4OL, but co-channel interference made the result too indistinct to obtain positive identification of coding. The propagation opening was around VE7 sunrise time. The path length from the ZL6QH transmitter, at Quartz Hill, near Wellington, New Zealand, is estimated as being 11,709 km. A three page WORD file, an Argo screen capture and a graphic of the VE7SL 10 foot loop receiving antenna can be privately emailed to those who request copies. Bob Vernall ZL2CA Organiser of the Trans-Pacific tests From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6352 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2001 13:08:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jul 2001 13:08:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 16704 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2001 13:07:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Jul 2001 13:07:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HmHi-0001sY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 04 Jul 2001 14:01:38 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HmHe-0001sT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 04 Jul 2001 14:01:35 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v4.0.0.R) for ; Wed, 04 Jul 2001 13:46:58 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 13:46:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Re. Net access on power lines etc. Message-ID: <3B431E4F.4121.1006690@localhost> In-reply-to: <3B430636.31444.A243CF@localhost> References: <002701c1045f$c2114340$1b6a883e@g3aqc> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Two relevant > documents are on the RSGB web site: > > http://www.rsgb.org/adsl.htm and > http://www.rsgb.org/powerlines.htm Oops. This should be: http://www.rsgb.org/emc/adsl.htm and http://www.rsgb.org/emc/powerlines.htm Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19597 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2001 11:14:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jul 2001 11:14:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 9391 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2001 11:11:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 4 Jul 2001 11:11:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HkUh-0000sI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 04 Jul 2001 12:06:55 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HkUd-0000sD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 04 Jul 2001 12:06:51 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v4.0.0.R) for ; Wed, 04 Jul 2001 12:04:08 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 12:04:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Re. Net access on power lines etc. Message-ID: <3B430636.31444.A243CF@localhost> In-reply-to: <002701c1045f$c2114340$1b6a883e@g3aqc> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3AQC wrote: > Finally he says " The radio amateur community should therefore > participate in and contribute to the standards development process,which is > mandated to CENELEC and ETSI" > > Are we participating? I see very little mention of the subject in RadCom. > Anyway it looks like its a fait accomplie. > 73s Laurie. As with all legislation, this has been a very long time coming, and there have been several items in RadCom about it spread over the last few years, mainly in the EMC column. The RSGB was instrumental in setting up a body representing the interests of the various users of the short-waves, and this body has been submitting data to the standards organisations for several years. Two relevant documents are on the RSGB web site: http://www.rsgb.org/adsl.htm and http://www.rsgb.org/powerlines.htm Further detail is at the RSGB EMC Committee site: http://www.qsl.net/rsgb_emc/emcnews.html [wearing my official 'hat'] Mike Dennison, G3XDV Publications Manager * RadCom * GB2RS News * * RSGB Books and CDs * * RSGB Online Web Site * Radio Society of Great Britain Lambda House, Cranborne Road Potters Bar, Herts UK, EN6 3JE Tel: +44 (0) 1707 659015; Fax: +44 (0) 1707 645105 www.rsgb.org RSGB - UK AMATEUR RADIO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24187 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2001 09:37:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jul 2001 09:37:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 22725 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2001 09:10:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Jul 2001 09:10:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HiW8-0008LB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 04 Jul 2001 10:00:16 +0100 Received: from relay.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.49]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HiW3-0008L3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 04 Jul 2001 10:00:11 +0100 Received: (qmail 12145 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2001 09:58:07 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from trtnmail.dera.gov.uk (146.80.9.56) by relay.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 4 Jul 2001 09:58:07 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 19666 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2001 10:01:22 +0100 Received: (ofmipd 192.5.29.90); 4 Jul 2001 09:01:00 -0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id KAA02191; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 10:04:46 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 24316 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2001 09:52:00 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 4 Jul 2001 09:52:00 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id JAA15007; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 09:41:55 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma014895; Wed, 4 Jul 01 09:41:17 GMT Received: from mailex.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with SMTP id for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 09:57:36 +0100 Received: (qmail 31515 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2001 08:48:30 +0100 Received: from softdnserror (HELO cchecker.dstl.gov.uk) (192.168.248.52) by mailex.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 4 Jul 2001 07:48:30 -0000 Received: from FRN-MAIL-R1.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by cchecker.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.2) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 08:48:40 +0100 Received: by frn-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 4 Jul 2001 09:57:50 +0100 Date: 4 Jul 2001 09:57:55 +0100 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C532@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re. Net access on power lines etc. MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Do you read Dave Lauder's EMC section in RadCom  ?- it is often mentioned in there.   RSGB were instrumental is setting up the expert group that defined the MPT1570 level for 9kHz to 150kHz.  Unfortunately this ended somewhat up higher than we wanted due to pressure from certain groups pushing ADSL, but very much lower than that originally being put forward by PLT proponants.   The pressure is now on to ensure radiated emisions in the 150kHz to 30MHz are set at realistic levels to protect HF.
 
I was originally part of the group with another hat on - trying to protect defence radio communication interests - but have now handed over to someone within this organisation more involved with international standards setting within the Nato environment.  He is not an amateur, but is sympathetic to our interests - which at HF are not all that far removed from those of military operators.
 
Andy  G4JNT
 
 
 
----Original Message-----
From: Laurie Mayhead [mailto:laurie@g3aqc.freeserve.co.uk]
Sent: 2001-07-04 09:02
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Re. Net access on power lines etc.
Finally he says " The radio amateur community should therefore participate in and contribute to the standards development process,which is mandated to CENELEC and ETSI"
 
 Are we participating? I see very little mention of the subject in RadCom. Anyway it looks like its a fait accompli.
73s Laurie.


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 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24503 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2001 08:19:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO guinness.servers.plus.net) (212.159.3.230) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jul 2001 08:19:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 13401 invoked from network); 4 Jul 2001 08:05:39 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (212.172.148.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Jul 2001 08:05:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HhdT-0007rO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 04 Jul 2001 09:03:47 +0100 Received: from cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.174]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Hhd1-0007rJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 04 Jul 2001 09:03:19 +0100 Received: from modem-27.anadune.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.106.27] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15Hhc6-0006TB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 04 Jul 2001 09:02:22 +0100 Message-ID: <002701c1045f$c2114340$1b6a883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. Net access on power lines etc. Date: Wed, 4 Jul 2001 09:02:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Thanks Tracey for the information on the PLT situation in Germany. I wrote to my MP a few weeks ago on the subject and finally recieved a disturbing reply from Erkki Liikanen of the European Commission. I quote part :- 
"--it is the task of public authorities to ensure that such pollution remains at levels which will allow the continued use of the spectrum for its MOST IMPORTANT FUNCTIONS,THOSE OF RADIOCOMMUNICATIONS AND BROADCASTING.
later he says "The extent to which the harmonised standards that are to be developed will be comparable to NB30,or for that matter the UK enforcement standard MPT1570,remains to be seen,as does the question of WETHER  PLT  Power Line Telecomminication  systems WILL BE ABLE TO MEET THEM".
Finally he says " The radio amateur community should therefore participate in and contribute to the standards development process,which is mandated to CENELEC and ETSI"
 
 Are we participating? I see very little mention of the subject in RadCom. Anyway it looks like its a fait accomplie.
73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28484 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 21:29:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 21:29:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 18112 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 17:46:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 17:46:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HUAF-0000pf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 18:40:43 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HUAC-0000pa-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 18:40:40 +0100 Received: from [213.122.237.197] (helo=default) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #9) id 15HU9W-0003q4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 18:39:58 +0100 Message-ID: <000301c103e6$e85301c0$c5ed7ad5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: GBR site Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 14:57:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Dick the site of GBR is bounded on the east by Watling Street (A5) and old Roman road, and to the west by the Oxford canal. It is at Hillmorton about 4 miles South-East of Rugby (I would say its more 'east' ). There is an aerial icon on most of our OS maps and roadmaps. >From the 1926 paper (thanks Jim) the masts (hence the capacity hat) are given as 820 feet high, and the capacity as 33nF. The resistance of the aerial is quoted as 0.7ohms or with the loading coil used at that time about 0.85ohms (The coil was changed when the TX was phase stabilised in the late 1960s). The coil is quoted at 2500uH at 16kHz and a resistance of 0.11ohms. The power is usually a nominal 500kW. In the old valve days this was probably about 200kW to 250kW to the aerial, with an aerial current of about 500amps. The figures indicate about 50% efficiency in the PA. There is no aerial efficiency given but there may be enough data there for you to simulate it. I suspect the PA efficiency is higher now (I am certain it is solid state now) but I suspect the power to the aerial is the same. The aerial feed-though is a bit suspect above about 750amps (!!) I was told. I hope that is helpful Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11133 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 19:56:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 19:56:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 4332 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 19:55:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 19:55:31 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HWCF-0001uk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 20:50:55 +0100 Received: from ds-img-4.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.137] helo=spdmgaad.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HWCE-0001uf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 20:50:55 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaad.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id PAA05106 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 15:49:43 -0400 (EDT) Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 15:37:19 -0400 From: "boffin1" Subject: LF: RE: Re: More on lightning To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200107031549_MC3-D80C-5673@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Shame on you Andy, still counting on your fingers! As Fred Hoyle pointed out 30 years ago a duodecimal system (base of 12) is far superior to a decimal system. 73, Roger. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9530 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 19:56:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 19:56:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 3729 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 19:54:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 19:54:46 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HWAs-0001uG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 20:49:30 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from m11.boston.juno.com ([64.136.24.74]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HWAo-0001uB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 20:49:26 +0100 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"yokUgcxCbtTP7XLrpefewEN9mX2T9YvhyCczCMxC2sl3b0mhP8+ffA=="> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from riese-k3djc@juno.com) by m11.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id F9FT9E8B; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 15:48:27 EDT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 15:42:47 -0400 Subject: Re: LF: 73kHz today / Electromechanical RX Message-ID: <20010703.154639.-512893.0.riese-k3djc@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "BOB RIESE" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In the mean time, can anybody help me locate a few million high speed relays for the accompanying electro-mechanical DSP project? :-) Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU If you get the sample rate up high enough ,perhaps a SSB adapter as well ;) Bob From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4750 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 18:48:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 18:48:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 1384 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 18:47:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 18:47:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HV7F-0001Ph-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 19:41:41 +0100 Received: from mail1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.18]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HV7B-0001Pc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 19:41:37 +0100 Received: from modem-17.ainur.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.100.17] helo=g3aqc) by mail1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15HV6W-0004xV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 19:40:56 +0100 Message-ID: <001501c103ef$cc693ac0$1164883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. 73KHz Tuesday Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 19:40:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Mike your  QRSS signals now strength "O" very readable in strong QRN. Not audible in 300Hz bandwidth. Confirm no sig. from loop Ant. used  this morning. Thanks for test 73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2079 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 17:53:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO guinness.servers.plus.net) (212.159.3.230) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 17:53:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 6342 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 17:15:43 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (212.172.148.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 17:15:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HToK-0000gd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 18:18:04 +0100 Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HToG-0000gY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 18:18:01 +0100 Received: from compaq ([62.253.44.98]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010703171718.MTT351.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@compaq> for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 18:17:18 +0100 Message-ID: <000601c103e4$06037040$622cfd3e@compaq> From: "Tracey Gardner" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Net access on power lines - Germany Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 14:21:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: It looks like goodbye to low noise levels in Germany? I got the following from www.silicon.com 73s Tracey German utility giant RWE said on Monday it had launched its powerline technology service which delivers high-speed internet access by sending data through electricity cables. RWE hopes for rapid expansion of the new product, called RWE PowerNet, now that Germany has passed new laws setting out the framework for the use of the technology. "We aim to win 20,000 customers by year-end," Michael Laskowski, managing director of RWE Powerline GmbH told Reuters in an interview. He said RWE PowerNet was launched on Sunday in Muehlheim and in RWE's home town of Essen, in Germany's industrial heartland, or Ruhr region. It would be offered in more Ruhr cities in the region in the second half of this year and in the Bonn area. Besides using existing electric plug sockets, powerline promises speeds of up to two million bytes per second, or more than three times the speed of latest phone connections promoted by Deutsche Telekom. RWE Powerline, a unit of RWE distribution arm RWE Plus, planned to offer the technology over the next three years across its distribution region in west Germany, Laskowski said. RWE Powerline spokesman Andreas Preuss said 7,000 customers in Essen and Muehlheim had already registered their interest and Cologne was the next city to be targeted. The company has a target of signing up 100,000 powerline customers in 2002, he added. Advances in the technology over the last few years had been slow, yet analysts think if successful, it might change the telecommunications landscape to the benefit of utilities. Germany's parliament in March approved three laws setting out the conditions for powerline operations which come into force 1 July. They ensure, for example, that the system does not interfere with electrical appliances or radio frequencies needed for emergency services. RWE charges customers according to the amount of data they receive, ranging between 49 and 249 marks a month. For the entry level price of 49 marks per month, users may download 250MB of data. A typical picture sent via email uses around 0.5MB. The utility will compete with other high-speed internet connections to the home such as television cable and super-charged copper telephone wires known as asymmetric digital subscriber lines (ADSL). Deutsche Telekom in March said it had sold 850,000 broadband ADSL lines and installed 400,000, with subscribers paying 65 marks a month. Laskowski dismissed concerns over possible hardware shortages which have been mentioned by analysts. Switzerland's Ascom will provide the modem needed inside a consumer's home to get the signals from the electricity cable into the computer. Laskowski also said RWE was testing powerline in a field trial in Brazil. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26734 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 17:27:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 17:27:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 10473 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 17:08:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 17:08:31 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HTYX-0000Z7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 18:01:45 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HTYU-0000Z2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 18:01:42 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15HTXn-0007Tu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 18:00:59 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15HNKF-0002ul-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 11:22:35 +0100 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:24:02 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: 73kHz today / Electromechanical RX X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, I was QRV on 73k this morning, and had a QSO with G3XDV, and PA0SE cross-band 73k/136k. I also heard excellent 599 signals from G3AQC, but Laurie seems to have problems on the RX side, since he did not hear either myself or Mike. Unfortunately, Rugby did not shut down until I had to leave for work (the band was unnaturally quiet as I was walking out of the door of course....) - I suppose they do not switch the TX off until the engineers and riggers get in to work. Next month I will take the morning off, I think. Thanks for the comments about the electro-mechanical SAQ receiver - I think I will try to put together some sort of article with pictures and so on, but it will have to wait a week or two due to work pressure. Naturally, I am thinking ahead to the 136k TX version - I particularly like the idea of a steam-driven TX, just for the horrendous pun potential (real steam radio, tuning for maximum smoke, etc., etc., oh gawd..). In the mean time, can anybody help me locate a few million high speed relays for the accompanying electro-mechanical DSP project? :-) Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17825 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 17:05:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 17:05:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 29703 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 16:36:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 16:36:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HRrI-0008A9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 16:13:00 +0100 Received: from mail3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HRqx-0008A1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 16:12:40 +0100 Received: from modem-7.spotted-trigger.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.41.135] helo=g3aqc) by mail3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15HRqE-0003pU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 16:11:55 +0100 Message-ID: <001301c103d2$98f39400$8729893e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. 73KHz Tuesday Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 16:11:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Many thanks Mike for the information. I have been doing some checks today and it looks like there are two possibilities,in fact both combine to give the poor result. 1)My recieving loop has a deep null in your direction 2) its quite a few db down on 73KHz. I hear HBG at S6, but using my TX Ant. its S9+5.There is not so much difference on 136 so the loop is considerably less efficient on 73KHz. I will look out for you beacon signal later and hopefully will be able to report better reception.  73s Laurie. 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21079 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 13:18:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 13:18:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 11923 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 13:17:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 13:17:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HPon-00071S-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 14:02:17 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HPok-00071N-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 14:02:14 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v4.0.0.R) for ; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 13:57:47 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 13:57:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Re. 73KHz Tuesday Message-ID: <3B41CF59.2037.109810F@localhost> In-reply-to: <001201c103ae$8f5fd620$5b99883e@g3aqc> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Many thanks Mike for the report,sorry I did'nt hear you ! If there is something > wrong with my Rx side on 73, I dont think I know what it is Hi. Of course this > points out the problems for anyone trying to set up equipment when there is > little activity.Please let me know if you will run your beacon again,I should > like to make another attempt using the TX ant. of course this means that I would > not be able to transmit (the TX is remote from the shack and I dont have Ant. > C/O facilities). 73s Laurie. More worrying is that you couldn't hear Jim who should have been quite a bit stronger than me. I estimate my ERP at 18mW (yesterday's estimated 40mW was an error) from 200W RF. Jim was hearing you at 599. To test the Rx at 73kHz, tune to the strong Rugby signal just above 73kHz. Even on the south coast this should be S9+40. Next, try HBG on 75.0kHz which should be S9. Most amateur signals will be S1-5, much weaker than on 136kHz. I will beacon this evening using 3s QRSS on 71.617kHz. If Rugby is still off I will try real CW. With a set up similar to what I have now, I have received QRSS reports from well into DL, so you should copy me. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2740 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 11:39:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 11:39:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 27337 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 11:38:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 11:38:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HOPf-0006Hd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 12:32:15 +0100 Received: from lepidachrosite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HOPc-0006HY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 12:32:12 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 (Pitfall.Games.dialin.freeler.nl [212.26.213.162]) by lepidachrosite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 7241BCAE6A for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:30:22 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <008d01c103b4$80684c00$0cd41ad4@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: 73/136 kHz crossband QSO Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 13:36:21 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
To All from PA0SE
 
This morning I started to listen on the 73kHz band at 0700 UTC.
I heard Laurie, G3AQC at RST 569 and Jim, M0BMU at RST 559, both with CQ.
Jim later announced he would QSY to 72kHz. There I could copy him no longer because of QRM caused by the modulation of a very strong RTTY-station at about 73.4kHz; Rugby I presume?
Later Jim went back to about 71.6kHz and announced he would listen on 136kHz.
We immediately had a very enjoyable crossband QSO.
 
I found this an appropriate way of congratulating Jim on his highly original electro-mechanical
SAQ receiver! (May I kindly suggest RSGB send the description of Jim's receiver to Pat Hawker, G3VA? I  also endorse Rik's request for a photograph; I would like to describe Jim's receiver in my four-monthly column in VERON's magazine Electron).
 
It was not the first crossband QSO we had. I worked MOBMU, G3LDO , G4GVC, G3YXM and G3GRO crossband in March/April 2000.
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16535 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 11:10:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 11:10:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 23243 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 11:09:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 11:09:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HNy4-000624-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 12:03:44 +0100 Received: from lepidachrosite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HNy3-00061z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 12:03:43 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 (Data.StarTrek.dialin.freeler.nl [212.26.212.12]) by lepidachrosite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 9D22CCB18B for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:01:32 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <002f01c103b0$79732040$0cd41ad4@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <005801c10321$245f1620$506197d4@W98.swipnet.se> Subject: LF: Power of GBR at 16kHz Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 12:59:51 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To All from PA0SE Christer, SM6PXJ, wrote: For comparison, would it be possible for you to make the same measurement and calculation for the GBR transmitter on 16 kHz? I happily comply. GBR on 16kHz is received here with a field strength of 5mV/m. I'm not sure where GBR is located but I assume it to be Rugby. With a ruler and a 1 : 4000000 map of Europe I found the distance to be about 380km. These data were used to enter the graphs in CCIR Recommendation 378-7. The curves for 15kHz are the nearest ones to 16kHz and 17.2kHz (SAQ). Applying this curve indicates that the EIRP at GBR necessary to produce a field strength of 5mV/m at PA0SE must be: 41kW for propagation over perfect earth 63kW for propagation over sea water 63kW for propagation over "land". 73, Dick, PA0SE JO22GD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28580 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 11:02:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 11:02:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 13912 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 11:01:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 11:01:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HNpL-0005zo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 11:54:43 +0100 Received: from cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.173]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HNpH-0005zj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 11:54:40 +0100 Received: from modem-91.denethor.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.153.91] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15HNob-0000Ng-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 11:53:58 +0100 Message-ID: <001201c103ae$8f5fd620$5b99883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. 73KHz Tuesday Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 11:53:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Many thanks Mike for the report,sorry I did'nt hear you ! If there is something wrong with my Rx side on 73, I dont think I know what it is Hi. Of course this points out the problems for anyone trying to set up equipment when there is little activity.Please let me know if you will run your beacon again,I should like to make another attempt using the TX ant. of course this means that I would not be able to transmit (the TX is remote from the shack and I dont have Ant. C/O facilities). 73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17626 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 09:14:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 09:14:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 18818 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 09:13:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 09:13:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HM4f-000537-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 10:02:25 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HM4X-000531-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 10:02:18 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v4.0.0.R) for ; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 09:50:08 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:50:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: 73kHz Tuesday Message-ID: <3B41954E.14836.26C84C@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I beaconed on 72.617kHz all yesterday evening. This morning the Rugby transmitter did not go off air as expected. At the band edge the noise sidebands read 4 on my meter (the carrier is 9+50), compared with a reading of zero just 500Hz lower. I heard G3AQC calling CQ at 559 and worked M0BMU 599 both ways. Laurie failed to hear either of us. Finally I sent QRSS for 15 minutes. Skeds anyone? Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4048 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 08:38:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 08:38:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 2553 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 08:37:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 08:37:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HLXQ-0004lG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 09:28:04 +0100 Received: from mail1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.18]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HLXM-0004l5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 09:28:00 +0100 Received: from modem-46.lemonpeel-angel.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.37.46] helo=g3aqc) by mail1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15HLWb-00020s-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 09:27:13 +0100 Message-ID: <001301c1039a$10114a20$2e25893e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. 73KHz Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:27:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi All,
Was there any 73KHz activity this morning? I monitored 71.6 to 72.1 from 0600 until 0800 UTC nothing heard or seen. Also put out several CQ calls. I can't guarantee my reciever or ant. at this
frequency so would be intrested to know wether anyone was on and wether any contacts were made.  73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3513 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 08:38:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 08:38:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 16389 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 08:37:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 08:37:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HLXs-0004lN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 09:28:32 +0100 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HLXs-0004lI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 09:28:32 +0100 Received: from [213.122.104.140] (helo=dave) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.22 #9) id 15HLXB-0007nR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 09:27:50 +0100 Message-ID: <001801c1039a$3b1eb680$8c687ad5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" References: <200107021901_MC3-D7D9-392E@compuserve.com> Subject: LF: Re: 73kHz activity Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:26:28 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Note that Rugby never goes off as early as 0700z on the first Tuesday, and it has just gone off at 0820z (0920 local). 60kHz is still on, and I don't recall this being off in recent months. G2AJV wrote: >S orry about email address. I suspect that I accidentally added .uk after >compuserve! It should read Boffin1@compuserve,com If that fails please >try my alternative address roger1@freeserve.com.uk Whoops! Perhaps Boffin1@compuserve.com and roger1@freeserve.co.uk might work a little better! 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 813 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 08:21:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 08:21:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 14185 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 08:20:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 08:20:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HLBy-0004WZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 09:05:54 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from relay.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.49]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HLBw-0004WU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 09:05:53 +0100 Received: (qmail 19840 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 09:03:50 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from trtnmail.dera.gov.uk (146.80.9.56) by relay.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 09:03:50 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 20471 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 09:07:02 +0100 Received: (ofmipd 192.5.29.90); 3 Jul 2001 08:06:40 -0000 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id JAA02117; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:10:26 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 5317 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 08:57:43 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 08:57:43 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id IAA25556; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 08:47:43 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma025471; Tue, 3 Jul 01 08:47:14 GMT Received: from mailex.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with SMTP id for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:03:27 +0100 Received: (qmail 10231 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 07:54:27 +0100 Received: from softdnserror (HELO cchecker.dstl.gov.uk) (192.168.248.52) by mailex.dstl.gov.uk with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 06:54:27 -0000 Received: from FRN-MAIL-R1.dstl.gov.uk (unverified) by cchecker.dstl.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.2) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 07:54:38 +0100 Received: by frn-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:03:46 +0100 Date: 3 Jul 2001 09:03:51 +0100 Message-ID: <7D653C9C42F5D411A27C00508BF8803D55C52B@pdw-mail-r1.dstl.gov.uk> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re: More on lightning MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > (most UK citizens dont know how > big a metre is anyway). > I certainly don't think that is true. Metric has been taught in schools since at least 1969 (was in primary school when it became compulsory) and there are now two generations who should know the metric system only. It is a great pity that we didn't stop those stupid imperial units from being used in shops at the time - but the authorities got cold feet and wimped out at the last minute. At least all scientific institutions adopted SI as quickly as possible. I personally haven't got the slighest idea what people mean when they say so many feet - a quick mental calculation multiplying by 0.3 is usually good enough. And as for a pound - what is that ? At least Farenheit temperatures have died out. Andy G4JNT -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29882 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 08:05:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 08:05:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 26731 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 08:04:33 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 08:04:33 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HKzS-0004O1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 08:52:58 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HKyt-0004Np-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 08:52:23 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA1216870 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 09:51:38 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010703085144.2da754e2@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 03 Jul 2001 08:51:44 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: SAQ reception / Electro-mechanical receiver for SAQ In-reply-to: <20010702.110146.-730677.5.riese-k3djc@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Bob, That sounds very interesting. Any chance you can let us know some construction details and/or show us a picture ? 73, Rik ON7YD At 10:57 2/07/01 -0400, you wrote: > >I was also able to successfully receive SAQ with a homebrew >electro-mechanical receiver. As far as I know, the Alexanderson >alternator at SAQ is currently the only operating radio station with >an electro-mechanical transmitter that does not rely on valves or >semiconductors. For some time I thought it would be fun to make a >VLF receiver based on similar principles, also without any valves >or semiconductors, to receive the SAQ broadcasts. At first, I >thought this would involve some difficult mechanical engineering, >but somewhat suprisingly I was eventually able to make such a >receiver using parts from the junk box. > >outstanding Jim !!! > >this only goes to show that LF can be a tinkerers >play ground > >Bob K3DJC > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19898 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 04:12:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 04:12:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 18230 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 04:11:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 04:11:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HHL5-0002bb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 04:59:03 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HHL4-0002bU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 04:59:03 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer (man-s057.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.41.184]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id f633wKk22662 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 04:58:20 +0100 Message-ID: <000301c10374$107cf980$b829f7c2@oemcomputer> From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: RE: More on lightning Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:16:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Michael Probert" To: Sent: Tuesday, July 03, 2001 2:31 AM Subject: LF: RE: More on lightning > The insurance company did not even want to consider the claim( they > were all on the same policy)." Act of God" was their excuse. I wonder what happens when insurance men appear at the Pearly Gates? 73 de John Rabson G3PAI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14571 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 04:07:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 04:07:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 20679 invoked from network); 3 Jul 2001 04:06:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Jul 2001 04:06:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HHL3-0002bV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 04:59:01 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HHL2-0002bP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 04:59:00 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer (man-s057.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.41.184]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id f633wIk22651 for ; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 04:58:18 +0100 Message-ID: <000201c10374$0f3e10e0$b829f7c2@oemcomputer> From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <004b01c1031c$50bfcfc0$1c74073e@default> Subject: LF: Re: Re: More on lightning Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:15:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alan Melia" To: Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 4:25 PM Subject: LF: Re: More on lightning > Most UK citizens dont know how > big a metre is anyway It used to be a yard + VAT? 73 de John Rabson G3PAI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24544 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 23:18:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 23:18:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 27525 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 23:16:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 23:16:46 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HCsj-0000GT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 00:13:29 +0100 Received: from ds-img-6.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.139] helo=spdmgaaf.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HCsi-0000GN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 00:13:28 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaaf.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id TAA24007 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:12:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:10:26 -0400 From: "boffin1" Subject: LF: Re: 12in Pipe To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200107021910_MC3-D7D9-397F@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Two inch diameter UPVC pipe turnd brown and on one occasion caught fire when i threaded it throuh the centre of toroidal antennas in the SW band! 73, Roger. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20561 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 23:15:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 23:15:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 1104 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 23:14:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 23:14:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HCpn-0000G9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 00:10:27 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout04.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.18] helo=mailout04.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HCpm-0000G4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 00:10:26 +0100 Received: from fwd02.sul.t-online.de by mailout04.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 15HCp7-0004Mf-04; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 01:09:45 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (087321565-0001@[217.2.68.149]) by fwd02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 15HCov-0WAzp2C; Tue, 3 Jul 2001 01:09:33 +0200 From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000401c10274$59690040$fc2075d5@w8k3f0> Subject: Re: LF: SAQ X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Tue, 3 Jul 2001 01:09:33 +0200 Message-ID: <15HCov-0WAzp2C@fwd02.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Dick, during the time when DF3LP in Kiel had been active on LF and also copied SAQ he had written on this server that SAQ sounded "like a flute". This would mean that when receiving SAQ with sufficient wide bandwidth over short distances it still should be noticeable that the generation of frequency differs from that of modern designs! I myself could not copy SAQ this time because I have been on the Ham Radio at Friedrichshafen. 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB Dick Rollema schrieb: > Dr. OM, > > In an one-turn untuned screened loop with an area of 1 square metre SAQ > produced an EMF of > 0.206 microvolt. That corresponds to a field strength of 572 microvolt/metre. > > Well done! > > The transmitter sounds like a very good modern one! > > 73, Dick, PA0SE > JO22GD > 40 km South West of Amsterdam > > D.W. Rollema > V.d. Marckstraat 5 > 2352 RA Leiderdorp > The Netherlands > Tel. +31 71 589 27 34 > E-mail: d.w.rollema@freeler.nl > or > pa0se@amsat.org > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12641 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 23:10:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 23:10:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 21921 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 23:08:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 23:08:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HCir-00008x-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 00:03:17 +0100 Received: from ds-img-2.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.135] helo=spdmgaab.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15HCiq-00008s-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Jul 2001 00:03:16 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id TAA01399 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:02:04 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:01:13 -0400 From: "boffin1" Subject: Re: LF: Re: DJ8WX kugelblitz.. To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200107021901_MC3-D7D9-392E@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: S orry about email address. I suspect that I accidentally added .uk after compuserve! It should read Boffin1@compuserve,com If that fails please try my alternative address roger1@freeserve.com.uk 73 Roger. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22988 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 19:13:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 19:13:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 5114 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 19:12:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 19:12:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15H920-0006he-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 20:06:48 +0100 Received: from [204.202.140.199] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15H91v-0006hZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 20:06:43 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gomailjtp01 ([10.212.0.161]) by mta07.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GFV00M5Y0ZMNO@mta07.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 12:04:34 -0700 (PDT) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 12:04:33 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Sexton" Subject: Re: LF: SAQ To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <1323305.994100676380.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Dave, Yes you are right, I was using a program to decode the CW, although I can now manage to read by ear up to about 20 wpm on a good day. Regular listening on LF has improved my CW enormously after a 10 year gap, but I still have lapses caused by mind wandering, hi. On occasions I seem to get totally out of sync. and have to wait until I hear something familiar. Someone on this reflector said one time that you have to treat it as a foreign language. I would agree with that, to get to any speed you have to recognise complete words. Which is why I think one tends to get thrown with unusual groups of punctuation characters. What threw me at first, were the .. .. (II) for repetition. I have not seen this before. Is it a popular signal for a repeat? Also of course the @ in the email address was an informed guess on my part. I have been experimenting for some time with software decoders. CW is particularly difficult to decode successfully in the presence of noise, for several reasons, the variable word length, the variable speed, lack of synchronising at either the bit or character level, etc. Most of the decoders I have tried are very poor. These include: Hamcom, CWmaestro, PRO-CW, Robocopy, and many more. I came to the conclusion that for any degree of success, it is essential to use FFT software. For sending I use a software keyer that I wrote (my hand keying is absolutely dreadful), which allows rates from 0.01 to 100 wpm. Currently I am planning to extend the keyer to send other codes that might be easier than CW to decode by software. A fixed length code at a selection of fixed rates with a distictive start bit should make it much easier to get into phase and stay in phase. 6-bits would be sufficient for 26 letters (case is not necessary - I am not planning a word processor), 10 digits and a variety of punctuation and procedure signs. 5 bits as in RTTY requires shift characters to get enough codes, but shifted codes are just another thing to get wrong, when decoding. No stop bit is necessary. Perhaps use bit stuffing for both ones and zeros with a bit of opposite polarity after 3 the same to avoid long chains, with flag characters 011110 instead of a start bit at a frequency that can be adjusted to suit conditions, ie. synchronous transmission of shortish blocks to avoid wasteful spaces. Manchester coding is too expensive, twice the frequency. Either on/off keying or two frequencies as in DF CW. Low transmission rates suitable to the band and conditions. Readable by ear/eye as well as by program. Code redundancy and FEC are possible additions. So if you hear something unusual on the band, it just might be me. 73, John, G4CNN -----Original Message----- From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Cc: "G4BRA" Date: Mon Jul 02 00:24:22 PDT 2001 Subject: LF: SAQ >>From Dave G3YMC> >SAQ on 17.2kHz copied 589 both sessions on my 'bit of string' untuned longwire. >Solid copy despite intermittent elecrical QRN at a similar strength (thermostat or >similar). However the signal was many db below GBRs enormous signal. > >John Sexton wrote: >>The message wasn't very interesting: > >I agree. It seems John's transcript was done with his morse copier software rather >than by ear. What fooled me was the proliferation of not normally used puctuation >characters. Perhaps it shows how inappropriate morse is for sending things like web >site addresses, but I was particularly fooled by the + sign (I think) before the FAX >telephone number (+46 for Sweden). Don't think I have ever heard a + on CW before!! > >>Before restarting in the afternoon, I noticed the frequency going up and >>down a bit - problems with the regulator? > >There was noticeable chirp on the signal at all times, especially on dashes. > >SA6Q not heard on 136 but it was probably while I was out in the morning. > >73s Dave G3YMC >dsergeant@iee.org >dsergeant@btinternet.com >http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk > > > > > > ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22441 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 18:52:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 18:52:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 15558 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 18:51:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 18:51:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15H8dL-0006YQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 19:41:19 +0100 Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.42]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15H8dI-0006YL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 19:41:16 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.100.136]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010702184014.KUVU294.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:40:14 +0100 Message-ID: <000d01c10326$803545a0$886468d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Active in 73kHz Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:40:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have returned my system to 73kHz (like Dave, I am also always amazed at how much extra L is needed) and am running about 40mW ERP. This evening, Monday, I am running a CW beacon on 71.617kHz. I will be active tomorrow morning from about 0700 to 0730 UTC. >From tomorrow evening, I am looking for skeds, inband or crossband, QRSS or CW. Mike, G3XDV http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 103 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 18:08:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 18:08:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 7504 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 18:06:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 18:06:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15H82Y-0006Bm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 19:03:18 +0100 Received: from fep03.swip.net ([130.244.199.131] helo=fep03-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15H82W-0006Bh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 19:03:17 +0100 Received: from W98 ([212.151.97.80]) by fep03-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20010702180351.ZRP25333.fep03-svc.swip.net@W98> for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 20:03:51 +0200 Message-ID: <005801c10321$245f1620$506197d4@W98.swipnet.se> From: "C Andersson" To: "RSGB LF Group" Subject: LF: SV: Power SAQ Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 20:01:47 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >To All from PA0SE >Applying the CCIR curve resulted in an EIRP for SAQ of 6.5kW. Hello Dick, For comparison, would it be possible for you to make the same measurement and calculation for the GBR transmitter on 16 kHz? /Christer sm6pxj From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6510 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 18:07:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 18:07:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 7476 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 18:06:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 18:06:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15H82V-0006Bf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 19:03:15 +0100 Received: from fep03.swip.net ([130.244.199.131] helo=fep03-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15H82T-0006Ba-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 19:03:14 +0100 Received: from W98 ([212.151.97.80]) by fep03-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20010702180347.ZRM25333.fep03-svc.swip.net@W98> for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 20:03:47 +0200 Message-ID: <005701c10321$2225ef00$506197d4@W98.swipnet.se> From: "C Andersson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: SV: Power SAQ Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:59:51 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To All from PA0SE Applying the CCIR curve resulted in an EIRP for SAQ of 6.5kW. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9888 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 18:04:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 18:04:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 27958 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 18:03:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 18:03:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15H7z7-00069r-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 18:59:45 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15H7z6-00069m-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 18:59:44 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer (man-s179.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.45.50]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id f62Hx2k04484 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 18:59:02 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c10320$5cd0a920$322df7c2@oemcomputer> From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000701c0fd9e$a89b8b40$d929f7c2@oemcomputer> Subject: LF: Re: LF reference website Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 18:56:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thank you all for your suggestions. I have put most of the links on and hope to add the rest soon. 73 de John Rabson G3PAI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6580 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 17:39:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 17:39:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 3478 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 17:38:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 17:38:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15H7a1-0005ua-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 18:33:49 +0100 Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15H7a0-0005uV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 18:33:48 +0100 Received: from boxernet.demon.co.uk ([194.222.47.214] helo=TRIXY) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15H7ZE-0003WQ-0C for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 17:33:01 +0000 From: "Michael Probert" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: More on lightning Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 18:31:54 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-reply-to: <3B406C26.4791.C56015@localhost> Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Mike & all, Don't be so sure Mike about the insurances companies having to pay out for all that equipment.A few years ago a lightening strike occured in a field a few hundred meters from my home. I never understood why, but it must have imposed a huge surge on the power supply to my house and others. The mains supply is underground.The only equipment affected were the electronic programmers on central heating boilers, all of which were blown out. The insurance company did not even want to consider the claim( they were all on the same policy)." Act of God" was their excuse and who was I to argue with them? Let us know Mike of the outcome. Other Topic. Jim's electro mechanical RX for SAQ. Not exactly a "tinkerer" more a genius I think. Well done Jim. 73s Mike GW4HXO. >>>>>>>>>>>Subject: LF: More on lightning Thanks for those commenting on my recent lightning experience. I have now spoken to almost all of those in my street - only 16 houses - and I was the only one who did not have a video recorder blow up. In fact, my damage was less than most other people. . All I do know is that the insurance companies will have to pay for 10 video recorders, 3 TVs, 3 phone lines, one cable TV adapter and two computer modems. My own LF pre-amp and mains wiring problem seem quite trivial. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT)<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<<< From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23651 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 17:38:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 17:38:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 14438 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 17:37:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 17:37:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15H7Wk-0005uL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 18:30:26 +0100 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15H7Wh-0005uG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 18:30:23 +0100 Received: from [62.7.116.28] (helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #9) id 15H7Vx-0000bf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 18:29:38 +0100 Message-ID: <004b01c1031c$50bfcfc0$1c74073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: More on lightning Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 16:25:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Think BIG mike....tell them that they will all be in the 'cone of protection' if you could put up a 50m mast (most UK citizens dont know how big a metre is anyway). There hasn't been a strike within half a mile of here in 10 years....mind you the Elephant Deterant Powder is working well too!! Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com -----Original Message----- From: Mike Dennison To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 02 July 2001 12:49 Subject: LF: More on lightning > Does this mean that my earthed mast (earthed to stakes, not mains) acted as a lightning conductor and protected my TV antenna several metres below it? > > The conclusion of this is obvious. I must persuade my neighbours that they would be better protected from lightning if they all had 15m masts in their gardens, and had them all joined up with wires to my mast to make a large Faraday screen. Well, I can dream! From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18675 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 16:49:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 16:49:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 5576 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 15:57:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 15:57:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15H5yH-00053I-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 16:50:45 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15H5y2-00053D-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 16:50:30 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15H5xF-0002Ey-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 16:49:41 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15H5xF-0005pZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 16:49:41 +0100 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 16:51:07 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: 73kHz activity X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, I had to give "my" cherry-picker back to it's true owner over the weekend, who needs it for work for an indefinite period. So unfortunately I am now without my high antenna support, until I can devise a suitable sky-hook that won't attract the attention of the local planning department. The extra height is worth several dB on the transmitted signal at 73k, so for this reason, I did not think it worthwhile running my 73kHz beacon signal over the weekend. However, I Hope to be QRV tomorrow morning, and the signal level I can get should be OK for the daytime noise level. I have to go to work eventually, so will start around 0700. If Rugby is operating, about 71.65 is the best frequency for aural CW, as the noise is lowest there. Assuming Rugby has shut down, I will move up the band to 72kHz or so. As far as X-band contacts to 136kHz are concerned, I can switch between 73k and 136k receive quite quickly to listen for replies. Perhaps 137.2kHz or thereabouts would be better than 136.5, because there will probably be fewer people trying to have 136kHz QSOs on that frequency - in my experience, it can result in confusion when someone is calling on 136.5, but cannot hear a station replying on the same frequency. But that's just an idea. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6134 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 16:47:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 16:47:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 29099 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 16:46:20 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 16:46:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15H6hU-0005Ql-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 17:37:28 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from asterix.tee.gr ([212.70.193.140]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15H6hB-0005Qg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 17:37:09 +0100 Received: from teeserver.tee.gr (teeserver.tee.gr [212.70.193.130]) by asterix.tee.gr (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f62Gabv13257 for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:36:41 +0300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from odin ([212.70.200.81]) by teeserver.tee.gr (Netscape Messaging Server 4.1) with SMTP id GFUU5N00.54T for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 19:36:59 +0300 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010702161132.006f0398@aurora.eexi.gr> X-Sender: sv1xv@aurora.eexi.gr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Mon, 02 Jul 2001 16:11:32 +0300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Costas Krallis" Subject: LF: Re: Electro-mechanical receiver for SAQ In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 13:21 02/07/2001 +0000, you wrote: > I was also able to successfully receive SAQ with a homebrew > electro-mechanical receiver. Nice setup Jim. I am sure you had lots of fun with it! I wish there were a few more regular CW signals at VLF (like GBR, NAA etc in the past). 73 Costas SV1XV +------------------------------------------------------------+ | Costas Krallis SV1XV * LOC KM18UA | | P.O.Box 3066 * E-Mail: sv1xv@eexi.gr | | GR-10210 Athens * PGP key: 0x3BDBBC34 | | GREECE * http://www.qsl.net/sv1xv/ | | * http://w4u.eexi.gr/~sv1xv/ | +------------------------------------------------------------+ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6486 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 16:32:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 16:32:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 22853 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 15:10:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 15:10:55 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15H5FU-0004gT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 16:04:28 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from m11.boston.juno.com ([64.136.24.74]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15H5FQ-0004gO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 16:04:24 +0100 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"yokUgcxCbtTP7XLrpefewEN9mX2T9Yvhh/I0mzPqYvFX81Dfu1MhiQ=="> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from riese-k3djc@juno.com) by m11.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id F9CRJZMC; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 11:03:31 EDT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 10:57:57 -0400 Subject: Re: LF: SAQ reception / Electro-mechanical receiver for SAQ Message-ID: <20010702.110146.-730677.5.riese-k3djc@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "BOB RIESE" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I was also able to successfully receive SAQ with a homebrew electro-mechanical receiver. As far as I know, the Alexanderson alternator at SAQ is currently the only operating radio station with an electro-mechanical transmitter that does not rely on valves or semiconductors. For some time I thought it would be fun to make a VLF receiver based on similar principles, also without any valves or semiconductors, to receive the SAQ broadcasts. At first, I thought this would involve some difficult mechanical engineering, but somewhat suprisingly I was eventually able to make such a receiver using parts from the junk box. outstanding Jim !!! this only goes to show that LF can be a tinkerers play ground Bob K3DJC From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23125 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 13:06:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 13:06:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 23075 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 13:05:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 13:05:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15H3EQ-0003g6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 13:55:14 +0100 Received: from lepidachrosite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15H3EL-0003g1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 13:55:10 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 (Pizza.Food.dialup.freeler.nl [212.26.217.43]) by lepidachrosite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 5A21DCB02E; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 12:53:15 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000b01c102f6$e9b750c0$2bd91ad4@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" , info@alexander.n.se Cc: "Gerrit Jan Huijsman, PA0GJH" , "Pieter Bruinsma, PA0PHB" , "Cas Caspers, PA0CSC" , "Koos Fockens, PA0KDF" , "Jan Harte, PA0HRT" , "Jan Hekkert, PA3HCD" , "Cees Jan Keessen" , " J. Kroon" , "Jan Ottens" , "Hans Peltzer, PA0HRP" , "Dick van den Berg, PA2DTA" , "Klaas Robers, PA0KLS" Subject: LF: Power SAQ Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 14:59:56 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
To All from PA0SE
 
In a previous message I reported that SAQ generated a field strength of 572 microvolt/metre at my location.
I tried to find the EIRP of SAQ using the propagation curves of CCIR recommendation 368-7.
Earlier I have used the curve for "Land" (conductivity 0.03S/m; diëlectric constant 40), to find the EIRP of DCF139, 500km form my location. That produced an EIRP of 45kW, near the 50kW specified for that station.
I therefore used the same curve for SAQ. Not having  the locator for Grimeton I measured the distance on a 1934 map of Europe and found about 800km.
Applying the CCIR curve resulted in an EIRP for SAQ of 6.5kW. 
There are many uncertain factors involved so please take this value for what it is worth.
 
73, Dick, PA0SE 
JO22GD 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23658 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 12:27:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 12:27:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 26735 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 12:26:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 12:26:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15H2hA-0003Ka-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 13:20:52 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15H2h8-0003KV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 13:20:50 +0100 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44] helo=gemini.herts.ac.uk) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 15H2gT-0004Iw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 13:20:09 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.232.252] (helo=mj9ar) by gemini.herts.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.22 #2) id 15H2gT-0003Ok-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 13:20:09 +0100 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 13:21:35 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: SAQ reception / Electro-mechanical receiver for SAQ X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, I received broadcasts at 0830 and 1230utc from SAQ yesterday, using a tuned 3m loop and RA1792 receiver with 300Hz bandwidth. Both broadcasts were RST 599 QRN. The atmospheric noise level at 17.2kHz was rather high, but did not really affect copy. The 136kHz band was quiet; I heard SA6Q at RST 569 shortly after the 0830 broadcast, but had no reply to my calls; it seemed they were having some difficulty with reception, although an excellent signal here. I also tried 14035kHz, where SA6Q were RST 599, but got no reply there also - however, my 20m antenna is currently very poor. I was also able to successfully receive SAQ with a homebrew electro-mechanical receiver. As far as I know, the Alexanderson alternator at SAQ is currently the only operating radio station with an electro-mechanical transmitter that does not rely on valves or semiconductors. For some time I thought it would be fun to make a VLF receiver based on similar principles, also without any valves or semiconductors, to receive the SAQ broadcasts. At first, I thought this would involve some difficult mechanical engineering, but somewhat suprisingly I was eventually able to make such a receiver using parts from the junk box. It is basically a direct conversion receiver. It has a 2 pole passive preselector with RF bandwidth of about 800Hz, which also impedance matches the antenna to the mixer. The mixer uses saturating ferrite cores, in a way not unlike the SAQ keying circuit. The BFO signal saturates the cores at both the positive and negative peaks of it's waveform, and so the core windings present an inductance that varies at twice the BFO frequency, in series with the signal path. The BFO signal is produced by a small high frequency alternator. This is actually a 200 step/revolution stepper motor, salvaged from a scrap hard disk drive. When driven as a generator, it produces a reasonable sine wave - each winding produces a signal in phase quadrature with the other - with 100 cycles for each revolution. So as an HF alternator, it produces quite high frequencies when rotating at moderate speed. Driven at 4800 rpm by a DC servo motor, it generates a couple of watts at 8kHz, which effectively gives a 16kHz BFO signal, due to the frequency doubling action of the mixer. This "oscillator" is connected to the rest of the circuit with long cables, because of the mechanical noise it produces! The resulting audio beat frequency at 1.2kHz is low pass filtered, and applied to a pair of 1944 vintage 'DLR no.5' headphones. With the two earpieces in parallel, and a series capacitor of 880nF, these are series resonant at 1.2kHz and close to 50 ohms impedance. They are suprisingly sensitive - an audio signal - 100dBm (2.2uV into 50 ohms) is just about audible in a quiet room. So although the RX has no amplification, in fact considerable loss, a 30uV signal at 17.2kHz from a signal generator can be detected at the mixer input. The SAQ broadcasts on Sunday were received using this RX with my 8m high, 40m long inverted L antenna, which produced a comfortably audible signal in the headphones. In fact, the limit on sensitivity was the QRN, which was quite strong. Later, I re-tuned the RX to 18.2kHz, and was able to copy the VTX3 Indian navy station, although this was considerably weaker than SAQ. I also recorded the SAQ brodcasts on tape; listening to them, the main defect of the electro-mechanical receiver is poor frequency stability - the motor currently has no feedback speed contol, and so the "oscillator" frequency varies by about +/- 1% - not a problem as far as copying goes, but does sound a bit wobbly! As far as I know, this is probably the only receiver of it's type in existence, and perhaps the only entirely electro-mechanical radio transmission and reception since the 1920s - but I would be very interested to hear if anyone knows of anything similar. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21495 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 11:54:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 11:54:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 5575 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 11:52:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 11:52:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15H2Am-00033q-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 12:47:24 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [195.102.249.201] (helo=mserv1a.vianw.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15H2Ai-00033l-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 12:47:20 +0100 Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.vianw.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #5) id 15H2A1-0004z0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 12:46:37 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.PRO.v4.0.0.R) for ; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 12:42:16 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 12:42:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: More on lightning Message-ID: <3B406C26.4791.C56015@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-Return-Path: miked@mail X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks for those commenting on my recent lightning experience. I have now spoken to almost all of those in my street - only 16 houses - and I was the only one who did not have a video recorder blow up. In fact, my damage was less than most other people. Does this mean that my earthed mast (earthed to stakes, not mains) acted as a lightning conductor and protected my TV antenna several metres below it? The conclusion of this is obvious. I must persuade my neighbours that they would be better protected from lightning if they all had 15m masts in their gardens, and had them all joined up with wires to my mast to make a large Faraday screen. Well, I can dream! Did my neighbours see a strike? They say they did, but there is no physical evidence. In fact, this weekend I walked the streets all round my QTH, including several large open spaces with 30m beech and oak trees, and saw no evidence of damage at all. All I do know is that the insurance companies will have to pay for 10 video recorders, 3 TVs, 3 phone lines, one cable TV adapter and two computer modems. My own LF pre-amp and mains wiring problem seem quite trivial. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29034 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 11:32:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 11:32:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 23344 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 11:31:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 11:31:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15H1mO-0002oP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 12:22:12 +0100 Received: from lepidachrosite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15H1mK-0002oK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 12:22:08 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 (Kira.StarTrek.dialin.freeler.nl [212.26.212.29]) by lepidachrosite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 63C93CB19B for ; Mon, 2 Jul 2001 11:20:19 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000801c102e9$ece439a0$1dd41ad4@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: 73kHz activity on Tuesday Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 13:23:00 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
To All active on 73kHz
 
Tuesday morning from about 0700 UTC onwards I will be listening on the 73kHz band and happy to make crossband QSO's. I will transmit on 136.55kHz.
 
On what frequency and time should I listen?
 
73, Dick, PA0SE  
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15670 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 10:56:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 10:56:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 24077 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 10:55:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 10:55:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15H1Fm-0002WF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 11:48:30 +0100 Received: from smtp.im.cz ([195.39.10.4] helo=email.seznam.cz) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15H1Fk-0002W2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 11:48:29 +0100 Received: (qmail 29238 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 10:46:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO p) (195.47.69.2) by smtp.im.cz with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 10:46:51 -0000 Message-ID: <024501c102e3$dbd3b100$1601a8c0@maly.cz.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly \(Seznam\)" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001901c102c8$93b65780$9f5c01d5@dave> Subject: LF: Re: SAQ Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 12:43:40 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I heard SA6Q in the morning calling cq (cw) on 137.56. They called cq but they didn't give any QRX so it was not clear whether they listen to CW or Visual-CW on 136 kHz band or HF. I called them in both modes in vain. Did anybody worked them on LF? Tranmission on 17.2 kHz was clear 589. 73 Petr OK1FIG ----- Original Message ----- From: Dave Sergeant To: rsgb_lf_group Cc: G4BRA Sent: Monday, July 02, 2001 9:24 AM Subject: LF: SAQ > From Dave G3YMC > > SAQ on 17.2kHz copied 589 both sessions on my 'bit of string' untuned longwire. > Solid copy despite intermittent elecrical QRN at a similar strength (thermostat or > similar). However the signal was many db below GBRs enormous signal. > > John Sexton wrote: > >The message wasn't very interesting: > > I agree. It seems John's transcript was done with his morse copier software rather > than by ear. What fooled me was the proliferation of not normally used puctuation > characters. Perhaps it shows how inappropriate morse is for sending things like web > site addresses, but I was particularly fooled by the + sign (I think) before the FAX > telephone number (+46 for Sweden). Don't think I have ever heard a + on CW before!! > > >Before restarting in the afternoon, I noticed the frequency going up and > >down a bit - problems with the regulator? > > There was noticeable chirp on the signal at all times, especially on dashes. > > SA6Q not heard on 136 but it was probably while I was out in the morning. > > 73s Dave G3YMC > dsergeant@iee.org > dsergeant@btinternet.com > http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk > > > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10991 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 07:38:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 07:38:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 4138 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 07:37:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 07:37:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Gy7b-0000uU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 08:27:51 +0100 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Gy7X-0000uP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 08:27:47 +0100 Received: from [213.1.92.159] (helo=dave) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #9) id 15Gy6s-0002xN-00; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 08:27:06 +0100 Message-ID: <001901c102c8$93b65780$9f5c01d5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Cc: "G4BRA" Subject: LF: SAQ Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 08:24:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC SAQ on 17.2kHz copied 589 both sessions on my 'bit of string' untuned longwire. Solid copy despite intermittent elecrical QRN at a similar strength (thermostat or similar). However the signal was many db below GBRs enormous signal. John Sexton wrote: >The message wasn't very interesting: I agree. It seems John's transcript was done with his morse copier software rather than by ear. What fooled me was the proliferation of not normally used puctuation characters. Perhaps it shows how inappropriate morse is for sending things like web site addresses, but I was particularly fooled by the + sign (I think) before the FAX telephone number (+46 for Sweden). Don't think I have ever heard a + on CW before!! >Before restarting in the afternoon, I noticed the frequency going up and >down a bit - problems with the regulator? There was noticeable chirp on the signal at all times, especially on dashes. SA6Q not heard on 136 but it was probably while I was out in the morning. 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@iee.org dsergeant@btinternet.com http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19031 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 00:03:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 00:03:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 14028 invoked from network); 2 Jul 2001 00:01:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 2 Jul 2001 00:01:55 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Gr5H-0005st-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 00:56:59 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from granger.mail.mindspring.net ([207.69.200.148]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Gr5G-0005so-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 00:56:58 +0100 Received: from Larsen.mindspring.com (user-2ivesdr.dialup.mindspring.com [165.247.113.187]) by granger.mail.mindspring.net (8.9.3/8.8.5) with ESMTP id TAA29521; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 19:56:13 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010701184708.02829d30@pop.mindspring.com> X-Sender: fgentges@pop.mindspring.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 19:10:28 -0400 To: esanders@erols.com, rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, tacos@amrad.org, lf@amrad.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Frank_Gentges_K=D8BRA?= Subject: LF: Re: SAQ In-reply-to: <01C10240.0E82CC20.esanders@erols.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I had similar experience with the 0830/0845 Z transmission. I set up out in an isolated field using a battery operated Wandel Goltermann AT463 selective voltmeter for a receiver set for high impedance input and a 30 foot length of wire. I could clearly hear GBR at 16 kHz and occasional snippets of signal were heard at 18.3 kHz. The system seemed fine but the density of sferic crashes left no holes to hear SAQ through. Not even a shred of a snippet. Since 0830 Z is 4:30 AM I was running out of energy and decided to hit the sack and decided not to get up to make the 30 minute drive for the 1230Z session. I doubt I would have done any better than earlier. I will have to join Sandy and wait for next time. We sure appreciate the efforts by the Alexander club to keep SAQ on the air and make these transmissions. It is a real challenge for us and demonstrates how effective the receive end on Long Island had to be to make a reliable link. I understand the Long Island receive site had a very long wire which acted as a directive Beverage. This LF and VLF stuff they did back then (day in and day out) seems even more impressive when you try to do something like this. Our modern whiz bang technology does not give us much of an advantage here. Frank K0BRA At 03:10 PM 7/1/01 -0400, Nan and Sandy Sanders wrote: > Listened for the 08:30 transmission on a tuned loop and on the vertical we >use for one of the AMRAD 136 beacons feeding a tuned preamp. No luck. QRN >very high plus 60HZ based noise. > For the 12:30 transmission moved I moved to my office and used the E-field >probe on the roof. Had no 60HZ noise but still no SAQ even on a waterfall >display. > Hope to have better luck next time. > Sandy > WB5MMB Frank Gentges KØBRA fgentges@mindspring.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12328 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 23:41:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 23:41:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 21423 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 23:40:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 23:40:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15GqkE-0005eZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 00:35:14 +0100 Received: from hermes-2.bizonline.net ([212.95.128.6] helo=publiconline.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15GqkD-0005eU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Jul 2001 00:35:13 +0100 Received: (qmail 2445 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 23:34:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO default) (213.108.24.123) by hermes-2.bizonline.net with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 23:34:01 -0000 Message-ID: <002601c10286$80fe30a0$7b186cd5@default> From: "Julian Hardstone" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3B3B1418.21239.91CEAE@localhost> <001001c10065$b8b8cbe0$5b1b6cd5@default> Subject: LF: Re: 12in Pipe Date: Mon, 2 Jul 2001 00:35:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ByTheWay, un-plasticised PVC has ideal dielectric properties for HF and below. I once wound similar coils on two formers, one of UPVC and one of stout cardboard, and measured the Q (at ~3MHz IIRC). The UPVC was much better, with a good value. Any takers? >A factory renovation has resulted in some 315mm dia. UPVC pipe, with 6mm >wall thickness, being thrown out. If anyone wants some for a coil former, >let me know quickly, before the skip goes. Will saw to length, you will have >to pay post or collect. > >Julian G3TFR, Stockport. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8880 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 22:54:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 22:54:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 2898 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 22:53:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 22:53:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Gq0W-0005D1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 23:48:00 +0100 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Gq0V-0005Cw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 23:47:59 +0100 Received: from [217.35.36.35] (helo=mud) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.22 #9) id 15Gpzq-0003eP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 23:47:18 +0100 Message-ID: <001001c10280$762525e0$0100a8c0@home> From: "G3YXM" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Live notice-board Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 23:52:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all. New feature on "World of LF" web-site. There is a page where you can post information about forthcoming LF portable (or other special event) activity. This will then be flagged on the main page at http://www.wireless.org.uk with an annoying popup window. I hope it will help to generate more activity when we go out and about. Please don't misuse it. Thanks. Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3187 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 21:47:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 21:47:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 8757 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 21:46:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 21:46:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15GozC-0004gx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 22:42:34 +0100 Received: from imo-d01.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15GozB-0004gs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 22:42:33 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-d01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v31.6.) id l.6c.c6cfce8 (3972) for ; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 17:41:19 -0400 (EDT) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <6c.c6cfce8.2870f2fe@aol.com> Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 17:41:18 EDT Subject: Re: LF: Lightning To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 7/1/01 3:22:38 PM Eastern Daylight Time, sm6pxj@swipnet.se writes: << I have chosen to ground the antenna in a separate ground stake, with no connection to the main station gnd. >> This strikes me (no pun intended) as a very good idea. In broadcast practice, our masts are normally earthed to as effective a ground system as we can possibly achieve. Even so, however, when lightning does strike the tower, the whole earth system rises above local terrestrial average potential for a brief moment. During that interval, current will attempt to flow--no, let me amend that--current WILL flow through any convenient conductive path away from the immediate vicinity. When the potential of the station earth is raised this way, the resulting current often passes through equipment on its way out to the electric mains and their ground system, telephone lines and other cables, etc. Heavy-duty commercial gear is designed to handle a certain amount of this mistreatment by Mother Nature, but even so, damage is a common result. At home, however, I've had personal experience with what happens when the local ground gets elevated above the potential of the rest of the world by a relatively small nearby strike (about 25kA). Satellite receivers, computer modems, videocassette recorders, etc., are not nearly as sturdy as a broadcast transmitter! Therefore, if your provide a preferred path to earth that is as independent of your radio shack's ground system as possible, the chances of protecting your ham equipment are significantly improved. 73, John From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27871 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 21:25:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 21:25:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 10119 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 21:24:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 21:24:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Gods-0004Rg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 22:20:32 +0100 Received: from lepidachrosite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Godr-0004Rb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 22:20:31 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust252.tnt57.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.117.32.252]) by lepidachrosite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id D2A8BCB11A; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 21:18:41 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000401c10274$59690040$fc2075d5@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" , info@alexander.n.se Subject: LF: SAQ Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 23:24:37 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Dr. OM,
 
In an one-turn untuned screened loop with an area of 1 square metre SAQ produced an EMF of
0.206 microvolt. That corresponds to a field strength of 572 microvolt/metre.
 
Well done!
 
The transmitter sounds like a  very good modern one!
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
JO22GD
40 km South West of Amsterdam
 
D.W. Rollema
V.d. Marckstraat 5
2352 RA Leiderdorp
The Netherlands
Tel. +31 71 589 27 34
or
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16498 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 21:22:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 21:22:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 6308 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 21:21:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 21:21:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Goad-0004R6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 22:17:11 +0100 Received: from mail4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.211]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Goac-0004R1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 22:17:10 +0100 Received: from modem-184.edhel.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.170.184] helo=g3aqc) by mail4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 15GoZx-0003OS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 22:16:29 +0100 Message-ID: <001801c10273$30cfbda0$b8aa883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. 73KHz Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 22:16:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Ok John,sorry you did'nt get set-up at the cottage. We might have made it friday night but as Alan says the nights are so short at the moment that the Ionosphere hardly has time to recover from daytime effects before its light again!  I expect it will be a few weeks before things are right again but at least the nights will start lengthening.Will keep an eye on things and if they look good will try again.  73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15847 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 20:44:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 20:44:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 25990 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 20:43:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 20:43:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15GnyM-00043g-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 21:37:38 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout04.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.18] helo=mailout04.sul.t-online.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15GnyL-00043a-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 21:37:37 +0100 Received: from fwd07.sul.t-online.de by mailout04.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 15Gnxg-0000h8-04; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 22:36:56 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.157.30.226]) by fwd07.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 15GnxT-1zgyyeC; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 22:36:43 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200106301704_MC3-D7BE-59AA@compuserve.com> Subject: Re: LF: Re: DJ8WX kugelblitz.. X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 22:36:43 +0200 Message-ID: <15GnxT-1zgyyeC@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: boffin1 schrieb: > Very interested to hear about the kugelblitz as I have to attend the > International Conference on Ball Lightning in St Louis, USA at the end of > this month. Please send details to my email address: > boffin1@compuserve.com.uk . > By the way my magnetic loop transmitting antenna was about 30 metres long > and 10 metres high much shorter than Andy stated and 2 turns were better > than one. > 73 to all, > Roger > Hi Roger, ur above mentioned e-mail adr must be incorrect. delivery problems reported. regards Uwe dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10237 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 20:32:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 20:32:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 5736 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 20:31:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 20:31:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Gnne-00042Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 21:26:34 +0100 Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Gnnd-00042T-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 21:26:33 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.104.9]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 17:24:59 -0300 Message-ID: <3B3FC087.528BDFD3@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 20:29:59 -0400 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 73 kHz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Jim es Laurie. Am having some trouble getting set up at cottage. Won't have lf set up for week 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10531 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 19:25:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 19:25:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 13719 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 19:24:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 19:24:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Gmle-0003Rn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 20:20:26 +0100 Received: from fep03.swip.net ([130.244.199.131] helo=fep03-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Gmld-0003Ri-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 20:20:25 +0100 Received: from W98 ([212.151.92.106]) by fep03-svc.swip.net with SMTP id <20010701192058.DPMK21562.fep03-svc.swip.net@W98> for ; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 21:20:58 +0200 Message-ID: <001401c10262$c08b74e0$6a5c97d4@W98.swipnet.se> From: "C Andersson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Lightning Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 21:19:28 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Regarding the recent discussion on lightning, here's my little antenna switch with some 0,8 m air gap: http://home5.swipnet.se/~w-54761/antenna_switch.jpg I have chosen to ground the antenna in a separate ground stake, with no connection to the main station gnd. 73 sm6pxj Christer From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12054 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 18:28:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 18:28:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 4992 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 18:27:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 18:27:38 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Gloc-0002v3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 19:19:26 +0100 Received: from [204.202.140.199] (helo=webmailmta.go.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Glob-0002uy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 19:19:25 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gomailjtp01 ([10.212.0.161]) by mta07.seamail.go.com (Sun Internet Mail Server sims.4.0.2000.10.12.16.25.p8) with ESMTP id <0GFT00HE246PN2@mta07.seamail.go.com> for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 11:18:26 -0700 (PDT) Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 11:18:27 -0700 (PDT) From: "John Sexton" Subject: LF: SAQ today To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <2680109.994011507915.JavaMail.computernetworks@gomailjtp01> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: GoMail 3.0.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, SAQ received 599 here using my KI0LE loop. Unusually for this frequency there was strong QRN of a type which we have often on 136 - what I call the "crumpling a paper bag" sound. Before restarting in the afternoon, I noticed the frequency going up and down a bit - problems with the regulator? The message wasn't very interesting: V V V DE SAQ SAQ SAQ = THIS IS A TRANSMISSION FROM GRIMETON RADIO/SAQ USING THE ALEXANDERSON ALTERNATOR FROM 1925 , TODAY 76 YEARS AGO . REGARDS FROM THE ASSOCIATION ALEXANDER GRIMETON VETERANRADIOS VAENNER + CQ DE SAQ INFO = QSL REPORTS ARE KINDLY RECEIVED VIA AMATEUR RADIO CALL SA6Q II SA6Q ON LF 136 KHZ II 136 KHZ OR HF 7050 KHZ SSB II 7050 KHZ SSB OR HF 14035 KHZ CW II 14035 KHZ CW OR VIA E-MAIL INFO@ALEXANDER.N.SE II OR VIA EFAX : "46-34-674195 II 46-34-674195 OR VIA HAM CL : SM6NM CBA/BURE II SM6NM CBA/BUREAU FOR FURTHER INFO READ : WWW.ALEXANDER.N.SE IS WWW.ALEXANDER.N.SE = + DE SAQ SAQ SAQ Heard SA6Q on 137, but didn't seem to answer any of the stations calling them. 73 John, G4CNN ___________________________________________________ GO.com Mail Get Your Free, Private E-mail at http://mail.go.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18126 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 15:03:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 15:03:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 6040 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 15:02:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 15:02:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15GifR-0001Cj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 15:57:45 +0100 Received: from tomts14.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.35] helo=tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15GifQ-0001Ce-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 15:57:44 +0100 Received: from server1 ([216.209.110.69]) by tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010701145632.JCUL2764.tomts14-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 10:56:32 -0400 Message-ID: <000c01c1023d$5bf9c240$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3B3595AE.8E5E5261@alg.demon.co.uk> Subject: LF: LF distance record, announcement coming Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 10:50:51 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings All: It now looks like the LF distance record will move convincingly to the Pacific. Look for an announcment soon. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20739 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 14:25:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 14:25:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 29046 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 14:24:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 14:24:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Gi4r-0000rd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 15:19:57 +0100 Received: from ncc2.infomail.es ([195.235.39.4] helo=infomail.es) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Gi4p-0000rY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 15:19:56 +0100 Received: from p133 ([195.235.36.217]) by infomail.es (Tid InfoMail Exchanger v2.20) with SMTP id #993996907.177930001; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 16:15:07 +0200 Message-ID: <002601c10239$0b5b2a80$f9ce35c3@p133> From: "FEDERICO OLAIZOLA ZABALA" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RV: QSL SAQ Second msg 1-07-01 Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 16:20:07 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Infomail-Id: 993996907.4581010A811067.37452 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, July 01, 2001 4:15 PM
Subject: QSL SAQ Second msg 1-07-01

 
 
        RST  second transmission are 529 QRM QRN - solid copy.
 
        After SK at 12.53 UTC,  2 test transmission (v v v de SAQ) seems 2 differents opperators of senior.
 
        HPE CUAGN,  BEST 73 AND DX  FER OPPERATORS AND "COOPPERATORS"
 
                                        Federico   EA2HB
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7812 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 13:09:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur-qfe1-smtp-plusnet.harl.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 13:09:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 11965 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 13:08:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 13:08:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15GgtK-0000Hu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 14:03:58 +0100 Received: from siaag1aa.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15GgtH-0000Hp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 14:03:55 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1aa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id JAA18184; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 09:03:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 09:02:46 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: SAQ better in DL at 12.30 and 12.45 Cc: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, "SAQ" Message-ID: <200107010903_MC3-D7CB-A465@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LF group and SAQ/SA6Q crew, after further improving my receiving antenna, I was able to copy SAQ on 17.2 kHz at 12.30 and 12.45 with 369, approx. 70% of the text ok, however, with heavy QRN. Thanks again for the effort, chasing SA6Q now on LF! Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20539 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 10:25:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 10:25:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 5294 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 10:24:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 10:24:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15GeDx-0007Ws-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 11:13:05 +0100 Received: from ncc2.infomail.es ([195.235.39.4] helo=infomail.es) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15GeDw-0007Wk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 11:13:04 +0100 Received: from p133 ([195.53.104.72]) by infomail.es (Tid InfoMail Exchanger v2.20) with SMTP id #993982095.129030001; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 12:08:15 +0200 Message-ID: <001001c10216$8f730360$486835c3@p133> From: "FEDERICO OLAIZOLA ZABALA" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: SAQ- Spain Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 12:13:08 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Infomail-Id: 993982095.3267010A811067.22640 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
 
 
        SAQ heard in SAN SEBASTIAN IN93ah (French border) in 17,2 khz abt 429 noisi.
 
        Mni TNX fer all concerned.
 
                    73 de Federico  EA2HB
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11861 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 10:19:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 10:19:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 28414 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 10:18:17 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 10:18:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Ge7T-0007Pt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 11:06:23 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: High Received: from asterix.tee.gr ([212.70.193.140]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Ge7S-0007Pl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 11:06:22 +0100 Received: from teeserver.tee.gr (teeserver.tee.gr [212.70.193.130]) by asterix.tee.gr (8.11.4/8.11.4) with ESMTP id f61A5od28653 for ; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 13:05:51 +0300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from odin ([212.70.200.162]) by teeserver.tee.gr (Netscape Messaging Server 4.1) with SMTP id GFSHED00.TIX; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 13:06:13 +0300 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010701130420.006ee8e4@aurora.eexi.gr> X-Sender: sv1xv@aurora.eexi.gr (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) X-Priority: 1 Date: Sun, 01 Jul 2001 13:04:20 +0300 To: lowfer@qth.net, rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Costas Krallis" Subject: LF: SAQ, VTX3, 1 July 2001 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The morning hours of 1 July there was good propagation on LF and on 18.3 kHz VTX3 (Indian Navy) was very strong at 599 at my location. The SAQ transmissions at 0830 and 0845 were also very well received with RST 557 to 567. I also managed to contact Grimeton Radio/SA6Q on 14033 kHz in CW mode and report the reception. Here are the detailed logs: kHz Details ------------------------------------------------------------------------- 17.2 SAQ: Grimeton R., SWE, 0822, CW, Alexanderson Alternator Special Event, VVV, CQ + message (until 0853), 1/Jul/2001. (CK) 18.3 VTX3: Indian Ny, Vishakapatnam, IND, 0630, CW, VVV marker and encrypted/coded tfc, 1/Jul/2001. (CK) 14033.1 SA6Q: Grimeton R., SWE, 0915, CW, Alexanderson Alternator Special Event, wkg SV1XV w/ SAQ reception report, 1/Jul/2001. (CK) Antenna: 4 meters multiband vertical Radio: ICOM-706 and home made LF converter Regards Costas +------------------------------------------------------------+ | Costas Krallis SV1XV * LOC KM18UA | | P.O.Box 3066 * E-Mail: sv1xv@eexi.gr | | GR-10210 Athens * PGP key: 0x3BDBBC34 | | GREECE * http://www.qsl.net/sv1xv/ | | * http://w4u.eexi.gr/~sv1xv/ | +------------------------------------------------------------+ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19593 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 10:03:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 10:03:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 10664 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 10:02:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 10:02:31 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15GdyO-0007Nd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 10:57:00 +0100 Received: from siaag1ac.compuserve.com ([149.174.40.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15GdyN-0007NY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 10:56:59 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by siaag1ac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id FAA09864; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 05:56:16 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 05:55:51 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: SAQ vy weak in Germany at 08.30 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, "SAQ" Message-ID: <200107010556_MC3-D7B4-DB25@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LF-Group, >Excellent signals on 17.2 khz received here in South West Wales 5/8/9 at >0830 utc. >Many thanks to all concerned >Hope to work you on 136 > >73s Mike GW4HXO.< strange enough, the signal here in JO52BH was barely readibe with my umbrella antenna tuned with about 800 mH to 17.2 kHz. Report for SAQ at 08.30 was only 229 with the following (relative) signal levels: Callsign QRG Signal Strenght ------------------------------------------------ SAQ 17,2 kHz -99,0 dBu Alpha 11,9 kHz - 94,6 fBu (first signal) - 84,6 dBu (second signal) Alpha 12,64 kHz - 84,0 dBu (first signal) - 94,0 dBu (second signal) Alpha 14,88 kHz - 80,0 dBu (first signal) - 90,0 dBu (second signal) GBR 16,0 kHz - 66,4dBu VTX3 18,2 kHz - 87,5 dBu RTTY 19,6 kHz - 71,0 dBu RTTY 21,77 kHz - 58,8 dBu RTTY 23,40 kHz - 37,9 dBu background noise at approx - 100 dBu SA6Q was - 79,0 dBu here on 136.750 kHz, which is 599 plus (but unfortinately he was unable to read any signal besides OZ8NJ). So lets wait for the second transmission today ... Thanks and vy 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21839 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 09:43:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 09:43:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 17879 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 09:42:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 09:42:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15GdfY-0007A5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 10:37:32 +0100 Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.46]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15GdfX-0007A0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 10:37:31 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.96.41]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010701093649.BTV295.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 10:36:49 +0100 Message-ID: <000901c10211$6b06ec80$296068d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: SAQ/SA6Q Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 10:37:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: SAQ heard here about 569 on my loop antenna. The Rx is poor at that frequency and the antenna was tuned to 12kHz (for previous Aplha tests), but all copied. SA6Q is 569 on 136kHz, but he gave Christer SM6PXJ 379 and then lost him, so they still have receive problems. Many others calling but no replies by now (0936Z). Mike, G3XDV http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25860 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 09:03:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 09:03:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 3119 invoked from network); 1 Jul 2001 09:02:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Jul 2001 09:02:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Gd2y-0006u9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 09:57:40 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.88]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 15Gd2x-0006u4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Jul 2001 09:57:39 +0100 Received: from boxernet.demon.co.uk ([194.222.47.214] helo=TRIXY) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 15Gd4F-000K8I-0U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 1 Jul 2001 09:59:00 +0100 From: "Michael Probert" To: "lf group" Subject: LF: SAQ Date: Sun, 1 Jul 2001 09:55:50 -0700 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Excellent signals on 17.2 khz received here in South West Wales 5/8/9 at 0830 utc. Many thanks to all concerned Hope to work you on 136 73s Mike GW4HXO.