From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3287 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2001 22:46:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Mar 2001 22:46:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 13666 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2001 22:46:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 31 Mar 2001 22:46:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14jU4J-0003PP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Mar 2001 23:42:03 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14jU4J-0003PK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Mar 2001 23:42:03 +0100 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14jU3v-000GkS-0Y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Mar 2001 23:41:39 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AC65DE5.D1D9B168@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 23:44:53 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Update from Chepstow Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, I have almost finished making my new loading coil for 136 kHz, and was testing it yesterday evening. It's a bit bigger than the previous coil, and now includes a built-in variometer. The outer coil is wound on two large plastic buckets (Type 2, HD-PE) about 0.5 m diameter. I'll update my web site with full construction details and pictures soon. Yesterday (Friday), I was pleased to hear OK1DTN calling CQ at 18:25 UT (RST 559), but I'm not sure if he worked anyone. Later, I heard F6BWO (459); ON7ZO (559); PA0BWL (569); and OH1TN (559). Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15029 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2001 22:25:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Mar 2001 22:25:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 17024 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2001 22:25:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 31 Mar 2001 22:25:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14jTjg-0003JO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Mar 2001 23:20:44 +0100 Received: from cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14jTjf-0003JJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Mar 2001 23:20:43 +0100 Received: from modem-237.ecthelion.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.168.237] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14jTjG-00066m-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Mar 2001 23:20:19 +0100 Message-ID: <000b01c0ba28$50818ea0$eda8883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3AC68003.FC71E70B@ns.sympatico.ca> Subject: LF: Re: lf xatlantic Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 22:19:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Nil from me,cdx too disturbed. 73 Laurie. ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Currie" Subject: LF: lf xatlantic > Hi has anyone been transmitting? I have seen nil here, but condx have > been poor > > 73 de John VE1ZJ > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3224 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2001 22:11:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Mar 2001 22:11:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 405 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2001 22:11:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 31 Mar 2001 22:11:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14jTVW-0003Dh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Mar 2001 23:06:06 +0100 Received: from e21.nc.us.ibm.com ([32.97.136.227]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14jTVV-0003Dc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Mar 2001 23:06:05 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.208]) by e21.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA114914 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2001 17:00:27 -0600 Received: from usa.net (ss1.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.66]) by southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id RAA23660 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2001 17:05:36 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AC65485.EB7156E9@usa.net> Date: Sun, 01 Apr 2001 00:04:53 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Argo -simplicity, sig strength etc. References: <25649.200103301702@gemini> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, I think that the truth, as always, just sits in the middle. I can well understand the mood of Andy, as often I have myself reasoned along the same lines of thought when watching some programs on TV. On the other side, when I use the microwave oven to defrost the bread, I prefer to set it to 'Medium, 2 minutes', instead of, let's say, having to specify a power density of 4.37 kilo-joule per cubic foot. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22415 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2001 20:29:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 30 Apr 2001 20:29:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 15669 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2001 20:29:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 30 Apr 2001 20:29:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14uKAe-0008PV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 21:21:24 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout06.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14uKAd-0008PQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 21:21:23 +0100 Received: from fwd04.sul.t-online.com by mailout06.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14uKA8-00007T-03; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 22:20:52 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.227.109.92]) by fwd04.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14uKAF-1zlNlAC; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 22:20:59 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <26767.200104301458@gemini> Subject: Re: LF: Wolf Tests X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 22:20:59 +0200 Message-ID: <14uKAF-1zlNlAC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz schrieb: skip > I will run my Wolf-mode beacon again over the next few days if > anyone is interested; the frequency and bit rate of this is accurate > enough to use as a calibration reference for setting up a Wolf > receiving system. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > Hi Jim, I`m vy intrested in ur WOLF transmissions for calibration purposes. regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8827 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2001 15:07:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Apr 2001 15:07:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 18793 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2001 15:07:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 30 Apr 2001 15:07:04 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14uF95-0006Ah-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 15:59:27 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14uF90-0006AZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 15:59:23 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14uF8S-0005JK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 15:58:48 +0100 Message-ID: <26767.200104301458@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 15:59:05 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Wolf Tests X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Have not been very active lately due to visiting relatives, but I have been making regular recordings on 137.79kHz in an attempt to receive VA3LK's Wolf-mode beacon sigs. So far, however, nothing to report - solar activity has been mostly high since I started, so perhaps this is to be expected. Regarding the noise level at the to edge of the band, it is certainly true that the "Luxembourg Effect" QRM is stronger than lower down the band. However, it usually comes in bursts of fairly short duration, so I would expect it not to have too serious effects on the Wolf signal, since all the information in this is effectively distributed over a long period of time. I think there may be more problems due to the various carriers that exist within the bandwidth occupied by the Wolf signals - as far as I can tell, these effectively increase the noise level, and the Wolf signal is too wide to avoid them in the same way as can be done with QRSS. So it might be worth looking for a quieter part of the band relatively free from carriers. I would think the fact that Larry is physically relatively close to CFH makes it unlikely that his signal would cause QRM to the users of CFH - I suppose there is an area around Larry's QTH where his signal is strong enough to cause problems for CFH reception; but since CFH is much higher power, and the signal bandwidth quite narrow, this area must be very small. Since Larry is inland of CFH, I think it is unlikely that his signal is ever going to be a problem to the Canadian navy, even on an adjacent frequency. There is more likely to be a difficulty for them from European stations on this side of the Atlantic, where CFH is relatively weak. As G3XDV notes, the number of lines of output from Wolf depends on the length of the recording. Each 96 second frame of Wolf data generates a line of output, except the first frame, which gives 3 lines. The maximum length of data that can be handled is 1632 seconds, which is 17 frames, or about 27 minutes. If the file is longer than this, the rest of the data will be ignored. If you want to decode the later parts of a very long file, the -s parameter specifies the number of samples that will be ignored by Wolf before decoding starts, eg. to start 1/2 hour into a recording, put -s 14400000 (30mins x 60secs x 8000samples/sec). The thing to remember about the figures generated by Wolf is that they don't mean very much unless a signal really is being decoded. It is instructive to make a recording of some noise, and run it through Wolf - as often as not, strings of identical -f and -jm figures will appear, as they do for a real signal. This means that trying to optimise Wolf parameters using the numbers generated by Wolf is unlikely to be helpful unless a signal has already decoded successfully. I will run my Wolf-mode beacon again over the next few days if anyone is interested; the frequency and bit rate of this is accurate enough to use as a calibration reference for setting up a Wolf receiving system. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2812 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2001 10:00:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Apr 2001 10:00:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 8737 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2001 10:00:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 30 Apr 2001 10:00:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14uAHD-0003he-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 10:47:31 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14uAHC-0003hZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 10:47:30 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 10:44:59 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 10:44:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Wolf Tests Message-ID: <3AED4229.1391.4D75FF@localhost> In-reply-to: <200104300819.f3U8J4q24362@smtp.wanadoo.nl> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > As a slow learner i am allways behind whatever is going on > must be my age, but almost managed the Wolf receive side here aswell. > Also using CE2K Pro for recording and Wolf 0.53.. > Now what bothers me is that after 10 minutes of recording > i only get 10 lines of data, is this how it's supposed to work? Well, we are almost all beginners at WOLF, but the simple answer is 'Yes'. You would be better making a 30-60 minute recording. A very strong signal will give you good results almost immediately, but a weaker one needs a much longer recording. Good luck. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16099 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2001 08:27:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Apr 2001 08:27:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 18584 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2001 08:27:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 30 Apr 2001 08:27:13 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14u8uC-00032n-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 09:19:40 +0100 Received: from smtp.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.193.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14u8u8-00032i-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 09:19:37 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from default (p1473.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.170.198]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f3U8J4q24362 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 10:19:04 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <200104300819.f3U8J4q24362@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 10:19:11 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Wolf Tests X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 4/29/01 8:49:00, you wrote: >Timed record: Thanks to all those who offered suggestions. In the end I >found that Cool Edit which I use for recording has its own built in timer!! >It is a bit strange as it appears to have its own arbitrary system of >measuring time, but it does work. >73 > >Mike, G3XDV Hi Mike and group.. As a slow learner i am allways behind whatever is going on must be my age, but almost managed the Wolf receive side here aswell. Also using CE2K Pro for recording and Wolf 0.53.. Now what bothers me is that after 10 minutes of recording i only get 10 lines of data, is this how it's supposed to work? 73 de Ko, NL9222 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15283 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2001 07:54:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Apr 2001 07:54:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 15508 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2001 07:54:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 30 Apr 2001 07:54:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14u8CV-0002nM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 08:34:31 +0100 Received: from cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14u8CR-0002nH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 08:34:27 +0100 Received: from modem-6.orbic-cardinal.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.44.134] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14u8Bw-0007Fl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 08:33:56 +0100 Message-ID: <001c01c0d13f$8fd32c20$862c893e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. Beacon tonight. Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 07:33:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Sorry John,
I did'nt run it last (Sun.)night.Went to bed early Hi!
Conditions appear to be very disturbed at present
so I am wondering wether to continue on a daily basis,
wait for better cdx.,or mebbe just 1/2 nights a week.
 Is it serving any useful purpose at the moment?
73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9608 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2001 07:11:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 30 Apr 2001 07:11:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 8571 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2001 07:10:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 30 Apr 2001 07:10:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14u7a8-0002Ys-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 07:54:52 +0100 Received: from smtp1.ihug.co.nz ([203.109.252.7]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14u7a4-0002Yn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 07:54:48 +0100 Received: from p150 (p37-tnt1.chc.ihug.co.nz [203.173.227.37]) by smtp1.ihug.co.nz (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian 8.9.3-21) with SMTP id SAA13798 for ; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 18:54:11 +1200 X-Authentication-Warning: smtp1.ihug.co.nz: Host p37-tnt1.chc.ihug.co.nz [203.173.227.37] claimed to be p150 Message-ID: <025e01c0d141$d3d1df00$25e1adcb@p150> From: "Dave Brown" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002101c0d0f1$a6234940$cd0f7bd5@default> <000801c0d139$78f5f560$0b00a8c0@moose1> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Marine TX Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 18:50:20 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: If anyone wants info on the Salvor tx let me know. I have been using a modified Salvor on LF(albeit 180kHz) for some years now, they have a few quirks that are not immediately apparent-like the use of 6146 like tubes but with quick heating 1.5 volt filaments- and they are both mains and 24vdc operated. Dave Brown, ZL3FJ Christchurch New Zealand From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14419 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2001 06:07:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 30 Apr 2001 06:07:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 9390 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2001 06:07:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 30 Apr 2001 06:07:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14u6aQ-00023c-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 06:51:06 +0100 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14u6aP-00023X-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 06:51:05 +0100 Received: from [213.122.168.128] (helo=moose1) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14u6Zv-0000Ny-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 06:50:35 +0100 Message-ID: <000801c0d139$78f5f560$0b00a8c0@moose1> From: "Roger Basford" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002101c0d0f1$a6234940$cd0f7bd5@default> Subject: LF: Re: Marine TX Date: Mon, 30 Apr 2001 06:50:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Melia To: LF-Group Sent: Sunday, April 29, 2001 10:15 PM Subject: LF: Marine TX > Hi all, if anyone is into converting a Marine (500kHz) TX there was a > Marconi Salvor III ( quite clean) for sale at the Cambridge rally this > weekend. With 4 6146s ( I think) it is probably rated at 250 watts though it > should be possible to push it to 400. It has a lovely 4in diameter > variometer. The slight problem is it is for 24volt supply.....portable > anyone?? > > It had not sold by lunchtime and I was told it will be at Luton. The asking > price was 85(GBP), but if he humps it to Luton it may be haggleable. > > I got a rush of meglomania (powermad?) on another stand where I managed to > buy an RF Thermoammeter..........0-25 Amps !!! I could not resist as its so > long since I last saw one at all at a rally. So anyone with 3kW and 10ohms > ground loss will have to come and haggle at Windsor! > > Cheers de Alan G3NYK > Alan.Melia@btinternet.com > > > > > Alan, I saw the Salvor as well, I think that it covers down to about 410 kHz and would be CW/MCW only, hefty beast for an emergency set! The variometer looked as though it might be possible to squeeze more turns on the stator. If you're in the market for a coil like that G4PFG (Harleston, Norfolk) has another 100kHz Pulse/8 (Loran) TX for disposal, that has a large variometer in it which appears to be made of Litz wire, I have a photo if anyone's interested. I picked up a nice Racal 0-5 Amp thermocouple meter from Mike, hope that's going to be enough when I get my 300 Watss going! Roger, G3VKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24241 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2001 00:06:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Apr 2001 00:06:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 3702 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2001 00:06:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 30 Apr 2001 00:06:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14u0wS-00081M-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 00:49:28 +0100 Received: from tomts6.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.26] helo=tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14u0wR-0007w4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 00:49:28 +0100 Received: from server1 ([216.209.138.169]) by tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010429234826.MXUG17629.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 19:48:26 -0400 Message-ID: <003b01c0d106$ac59d030$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3AE8196D.2654.C681E0@localhost> <004701c0d021$0c66b650$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> <000e01c0d080$ff349000$766468d5@oemcomputer> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Wolf Tests Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 19:45:47 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike: > Tests: I have made recordings on the last two nights and can make WOLF lock > onto something but little intelligence so far. Last night I used 11025Hz > sampling which seems to make a bigger file but still nothing readable yet. I > will keep trying. Great. We here in Canada are still trying to get some action going on an LF allocation on a permanent basis. Progress is slow. We no longer pay an annual license fee over here so we have no way now to put pressure on our Gov't for action on different things. (maybe we know why the fees were dropped hi) This change has changed the whole relationship and we are struggling to figure out how to get things back on an even keel, for the time being I will stay well clear of any conceptually possible interference with CFH. Moving to the bottom of the band is also a problem for us it seems, I am told that SXV is being monitored over here and further that there is another Canadian station just below the bottom of the LF band and it is important we stay away from it as well. I just hope at the end of the day we can find a few holes to work through hi. I will be moving several boat loads of rocks tomorrow at the back of my Island QTH so I can put up the new RX loop I have been assembling here. I am trying to get a six inch pipe into place on a rocky outcrop so I can mount the loop free and clear of trees etc. Time to get wet it seems hi. Let me know what you hear and or see hi Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23954 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2001 00:06:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Apr 2001 00:06:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 3579 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2001 00:06:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 30 Apr 2001 00:06:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14u0wM-00081G-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 00:49:22 +0100 Received: from tomts6.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.26] helo=tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14u0wL-0007w3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 30 Apr 2001 00:49:21 +0100 Received: from server1 ([216.209.138.169]) by tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010429234820.MXTV17629.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 19:48:20 -0400 Message-ID: <003a01c0d106$a8d11ea0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3AE8196D.2654.C681E0@localhost> <3.0.5.32.20010429082404.007adec0@pop3.esoterica.pt> Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: Wolf Tests Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 19:33:10 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Brian: > I normally make a wide band spectrogram of the band and have automated it, > thanks to Wolf DL4YHF, so that it is now running 24hrs. I am hoping to > put the overnight picture on my web pages again. The latest shows SXV, > Laurie G3AQC and DCF39. There is a very strong carrier on 136 and a not > so strong carrier on 136.5KHz, no CFH and a mass of lines between 137 > and 139KHz some of which I assume to be Loran. And of course noise, > some of which switches on with the street lights. > > What do you think? I think this is a good idea, I would like to watch when the pictures are available. I suspect the signal you see is on 136.6, which is very loud here at times, never any mondulation however. Let me know when you can put them up on the Web. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2061 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2001 22:34:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Apr 2001 22:34:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 25234 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2001 22:33:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 29 Apr 2001 22:33:54 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tzWK-0007Ph-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 23:18:24 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tzWJ-0007Pc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 23:18:23 +0100 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.102.201]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 19:16:45 -0300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AECCBF2.BC37CB6F@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 22:20:34 -0400 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: qso References: <3AEC4AE1.4E108320@netscapeonline.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Mal Yes was surprised to hear you. Normally run KW but just woke up and linear was off . Will look for you agn on 40. Hope to get tx on 136 this summer 73 de John VE1ZJ gii3kev wrote: > Hi John > Thanks for the nice cw qso this morning on 7 mhz. Your 50 watt tx was > doing well at this late hour this morning 0930 local time. I worked a > few JA stns last evening and seemed to be the only EU station > working/hearing them. > The antenna is a horiz 80m doublet up at 70 ft for general hf use and > uses home made open wire feed/tuner. > I have not been on 136 khz for some time, recently moved qth for more > antenna space, with acres of room for long wires but sag could be my new > problem hi. > Your high speed cw was excellent, unfortunately the majority of cw on LF > is very poor, WOLF and WOBBLE seem popular !!!!!!!!!!! > Hope to qso again soon and maybe 136 on normal cw one of these days. > de Mal/G3KEV/SCARBORO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26317 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2001 22:28:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Apr 2001 22:28:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 22841 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2001 22:28:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 29 Apr 2001 22:28:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tzQZ-0007L6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 23:12:27 +0100 Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tzQX-0007L1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 23:12:26 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.102.201]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 19:11:17 -0300 Message-ID: <3AECCAAA.9E66BA3A@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 22:15:06 -0400 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Beacon tonight References: <000c01c0d02e$b1c00b80$6578883e@g3aqc> Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi Laurie saw nil fri es sat nights.  Will look tonight
   73 de John VE1ZJ

Laurie Mayhead wrote:

NASA says more CMEs so tonight may be last chance for a while. Running slightly differently in response to Alberto's pics.Still use 30 sec. ARGO but my dots 40 sec long with 20sec gaps. Looks a bit more readable here. Same old freq. 135.922. 73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8877 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2001 21:42:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Apr 2001 21:42:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 1521 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2001 21:41:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 29 Apr 2001 21:41:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tybh-0006yx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 22:19:53 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tybg-0006yn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 22:19:52 +0100 Received: from [213.123.15.205] (helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14tybC-0003OE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 22:19:23 +0100 Message-ID: <002101c0d0f1$a6234940$cd0f7bd5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Marine TX Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 22:15:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, if anyone is into converting a Marine (500kHz) TX there was a Marconi Salvor III ( quite clean) for sale at the Cambridge rally this weekend. With 4 6146s ( I think) it is probably rated at 250 watts though it should be possible to push it to 400. It has a lovely 4in diameter variometer. The slight problem is it is for 24volt supply.....portable anyone?? It had not sold by lunchtime and I was told it will be at Luton. The asking price was 85(GBP), but if he humps it to Luton it may be haggleable. I got a rush of meglomania (powermad?) on another stand where I managed to buy an RF Thermoammeter..........0-25 Amps !!! I could not resist as its so long since I last saw one at all at a rally. So anyone with 3kW and 10ohms ground loss will have to come and haggle at Windsor! Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28807 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2001 21:41:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 29 Apr 2001 21:41:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 1456 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2001 21:41:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 29 Apr 2001 21:41:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tybg-0006yv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 22:19:52 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tybf-0006yl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 22:19:51 +0100 Received: from [213.123.15.205] (helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14tybB-0003OE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 22:19:21 +0100 Message-ID: <002001c0d0f1$a530abe0$cd0f7bd5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots 21/22 & 28/29 April at GB7DXM Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 22:08:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all I have been slipping.....I forgot to collect last weeks file from the local cluster so here it is. Propagation conditions continue to be very disturbed, as the geomagnetic events run into one another. The plots from SXV (Marathon) show a lot of absorption in the night-time and also a lot of deep fading. As a result of these plots and some help from Vaino, and Laurie, I have come to the conclusion that the 'quiet period' before dawn is only quiet because the propagation has collapsed. I have a number of plots now that show that the signals start to decline about an hour before dawn at ground level. They go down to a level below the normal daytime strengths. This effect is most noticable on the north-south paths as the sun's UV reaches the D-layer along the whole path at almost the same time. On east<> west paths like that to CFH in Canada the curtain 'creeps up' from the east and the path only starts to fade as a substantial part of it is subjected to solar UV. I am afraid this is a sad conclusion as we all believed that the noise decreased for other reasons and it would enable us to hear the weaker stations. The plots suggest that the best time for this is about an hour before ground sunrise for paths with a predominantly N<>S track. For E<>W paths the best time is up to about an hour after ground sunrise at the most easterly station. The longer the path, the later it is open. CFH (Halifax N S) is not full back in service so is still only appearing sporadically and SXV (Marathon) is very difficult to interpret. I am not sticking my neck out about conditions except to say that there may be exceptional peaks in signals over the next week but for short periods. It will all depends on what yesterdays CME arrival did in the way of injecting particles to the ionosphere, and how much absorbtion they cause. Cluster spots follow:- 136.6 DJ2LF 29-Apr-2001 0819Z cq 136.8 DL3FDO 29-Apr-2001 0750Z cq 136.5 DJ7RD 29-Apr-2001 0750Z in qso with dj2ey 136.5 DJ2EY 29-Apr-2001 0749Z 136.6 DK6NI 28-Apr-2001 1407Z cq 136.6 DJ7RD 28-Apr-2001 0727Z cq 137.7 OM2TW 22-Apr-2001 1315Z qrss 137.7 OM2TW 22-Apr-2001 1250Z cq qrss 136.6 DF0WD 22-Apr-2001 1244Z qrz 136.6 F6BWO 22-Apr-2001 1241Z in qso with df0wd 137.7 OM2YL 22-Apr-2001 1043Z cq qrss 136.5 DK6NI 22-Apr-2001 0854Z cq 136.8 DL3FDO 22-Apr-2001 0818Z cq 137.7 DF6NM 22-Apr-2001 0811Z clg om2yl 137.7 OM2YL 22-Apr-2001 0805Z qrss 137.5 DF0WD 16-Apr-2001 1740Z psk31 137.5 DF6NM 16-Apr-2001 1736Z psk31 136.6 OK1DTN 16-Apr-2001 1549Z cq 136.5 OK1DTN 16-Apr-2001 1541Z 136.5 SM6CRE 16-Apr-2001 1021Z QRV again with new 137.7 DK8KW 16-Apr-2001 0855Z clg F5MAF 136.8 DJ7RD 16-Apr-2001 0758Z 136.8 GW4ALG 16-Apr-2001 0745Z 136.5 M0BMU 15-Apr-2001 1100Z in qso with df0wd 136.5 OM2TW 15-Apr-2001 1046Z cq 136.5 HA6PC 15-Apr-2001 1030Z just working OM5CW 137.0 OK1DTN 15-Apr-2001 1003Z 136.3 OK1DTN 15-Apr-2001 1003Z now again CQ...& up OM2TW cq 136.7 DF0WD 15-Apr-2001 0957Z in qso with dj6fu 136.7 DJ6FU 15-Apr-2001 0957Z G3NYK de GB7MRS 29-Apr-2001 2045Z > Cheers de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25482 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2001 18:30:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Apr 2001 18:30:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 11962 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2001 18:30:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 29 Apr 2001 18:30:39 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tvh9-0005ld-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 19:13:19 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [194.200.20.13] (helo=mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tvh8-0005lY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 19:13:19 +0100 Received: from userat85.netscapeonline.co.uk ([62.125.135.189] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 14tvau-0001ch-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 18:06:52 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AEC4AE1.4E108320@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 18:09:53 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: qso Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi John Thanks for the nice cw qso this morning on 7 mhz. Your 50 watt tx was doing well at this late hour this morning 0930 local time. I worked a few JA stns last evening and seemed to be the only EU station working/hearing them. The antenna is a horiz 80m doublet up at 70 ft for general hf use and uses home made open wire feed/tuner. I have not been on 136 khz for some time, recently moved qth for more antenna space, with acres of room for long wires but sag could be my new problem hi. Your high speed cw was excellent, unfortunately the majority of cw on LF is very poor, WOLF and WOBBLE seem popular !!!!!!!!!!! Hope to qso again soon and maybe 136 on normal cw one of these days. de Mal/G3KEV/SCARBORO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22576 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2001 16:14:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Apr 2001 16:14:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 17268 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2001 16:13:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 29 Apr 2001 16:13:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ttUn-0004kL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 16:52:25 +0100 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ttUm-0004kG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 16:52:24 +0100 Received: from [213.122.68.110] (helo=moose1) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14ttUF-0000qM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 16:51:51 +0100 Message-ID: <003701c0d0c4$4cf70b40$0b00a8c0@moose1> From: "Roger Basford" To: "LF GROUP" Subject: LF: Re: Getting Started Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 16:51:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks to all who sent advice and encouragement, all very re-assuring. I'm in the process of getting together the power supplies for the G0MRF TX, hopefully I may be in a position to get some RF out by the middle of May. I also have to butcher an ex-Pulse/8 TX for it's variometer when I can find a large enough soldering iron!! The info on the Datong VLF convertor is interesting, I shall look into something more up-market after the TX is going. I have heard several stations out as far as OK on the weekend mornings. Thanks again chaps, Roger, G3VKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6036 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2001 15:54:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Apr 2001 15:54:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 24525 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2001 15:53:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 29 Apr 2001 15:53:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ttDY-0004eN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 16:34:36 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ttDV-0004eI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 16:34:33 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer (man-058.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.41.72]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id f3TFY2N19352 for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 16:34:02 +0100 Message-ID: <003201c0d0c1$cbd9fba0$4829f7c2@oemcomputer> From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Power handling capability of ferrite cores Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 16:09:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: When I was involved in designing 50 Hz mains transformers we had a rule of thumb that we required one pound of laminations for each 20 VA to be handled. Is it possible to derive an equivalent figure from datasheets for a given type of ferrite and a given frequency? 73 de John Rabson G3PAI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4040 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2001 14:40:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Apr 2001 14:40:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 25528 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2001 13:48:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 29 Apr 2001 13:48:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14trGW-0003pv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 14:29:32 +0100 Received: from kuku-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.63] helo=kuku.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14trGV-0003pq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 14:29:32 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from bernie.excite.com ([199.172.148.157]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010429132831.XVWK22770.kuku.excite.com@bernie.excite.com> for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 06:28:31 -0700 Message-ID: <1819982.988550911122.JavaMail.imail@bernie.excite.com> Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 06:28:23 -0700 (PDT) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: Wolf Tests MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 62.253.64.5 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Larry, Stick with 137.794. Although quite strong, the Luxembourg effect was no problem during the QRSS trials and unlikely to be a problem with Wolf IMHO. We are using such narrow bandwidths it really doesn't matter. I am coming to the end of the work that has kept me away from Ham radio for the last couple of months, so will be getting a Wolf receive set-up organised quite soon. 73 & gud luck John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2674 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2001 08:39:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Apr 2001 08:39:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 1654 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2001 08:39:18 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 29 Apr 2001 08:39:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tmVT-0001ll-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 09:24:39 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rhun.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.26]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tmVS-0001lg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 09:24:38 +0100 Received: from srv17slx.esoterica.pt (srv17slx.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.47]) by rhun.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f3T8O7Q03798 for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 09:24:07 +0100 (WEST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from slave2 (por415.esoterica.pt [195.22.18.116]) by srv17slx.esoterica.pt (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA03279 for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 09:24:07 +0100 (WET DST) Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010429082404.007adec0@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 08:24:04 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: Wolf Tests In-reply-to: <004701c0d021$0c66b650$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> References: <3AE8196D.2654.C681E0@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Larry, At 16:23 28/04/01 -0400, you wrote: > >If the WOLF transmissions are not going to be readable in Europe we have the >option to change the time, or add another hour at a different time, or the >digital session can be ended if it is not being used by anyone. Comments? I normally make a wide band spectrogram of the band and have automated it, thanks to Wolf DL4YHF, so that it is now running 24hrs. I am hoping to put the overnight picture on my web pages again. The latest shows SXV, Laurie G3AQC and DCF39. There is a very strong carrier on 136 and a not so strong carrier on 136.5KHz, no CFH and a mass of lines between 137 and 139KHz some of which I assume to be Loran. And of course noise, some of which switches on with the street lights. What do you think? 73, Brian 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3113 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2001 08:19:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Apr 2001 08:19:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 27614 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2001 08:18:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 29 Apr 2001 08:18:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tmBM-0001en-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 09:03:52 +0100 Received: from lepidachrosite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tmBL-0001ei-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 09:03:51 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust193.tnt4.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.116.102.193]) by lepidachrosite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 0B165CAFDF for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 08:02:33 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <003701c0d083$29305360$c16674d5@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001c01c0cee7$3843ab60$ba62883e@g3aqc> <000601c0cf47$124ae620$a7ce28c3@ericadodd> <001f01c0cfca$3bb5fda0$f4eb7ad5@dave> <3AEB2DBE.194E5A9C@alg.demon.co.uk> Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: Re. Pre-amps Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 10:04:32 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To All from PA0SE Steve, GW4ALG wrote: > I have a single-turn delta loop of 65 m perimeter, and also find > it excellent for receive. It is fed at the top using balanced > feeder and is tuned & matched to 50 ohms with a balanced tuning > unit. No pre-amp is used. Details can be found at: > http://www.alg.demon.co.uk/radio/136/loop.htm > > My 12 m experimental vertical antenna is very close to one end of > the loop. For details see: > http://www.alg.demon.co.uk/radio/136/experi_vert.htm > > This evening, when monitoring the TX SWR into the resonant > vertical (very close to 1:1), I found no change in SWR when: > - tuning the loop antenna either side of resonance (with the > coax-side of the tuner terminated in 50 ohms); > - disconnecting the shack end of the balanced feeder from the > tuner; > - applying a short circuit to the shack end of the balanced > feeder; or, > - grounding the shorted balanced feeder. > > As you can imagine, the tuning of my short vertical is very > sharp. I can even see the SWR change when the wind blows. So > I'm very surprised that there appears to be so significant > interaction between the two antennas. Even when the coupling between vertical and loop is so weak that the SWR of the vertical does not change when tuning the loop the coupling can still be strong enough for signals from the vertical getting into the loop.when receiving. 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1996 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2001 08:06:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 29 Apr 2001 08:06:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 8335 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2001 08:06:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 29 Apr 2001 08:06:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tlyW-0001Sj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 08:50:36 +0100 Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.46]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tlyV-0001Se-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 08:50:35 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.100.118]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010429075005.GYOV285.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 08:50:05 +0100 Message-ID: <000e01c0d080$ff349000$766468d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3AE8196D.2654.C681E0@localhost> <004701c0d021$0c66b650$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> Subject: LF: Re: Wolf Tests Date: Sun, 29 Apr 2001 08:49:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Timed record: Thanks to all those who offered suggestions. In the end I found that Cool Edit which I use for recording has its own built in timer!! It is a bit strange as it appears to have its own arbitrary system of measuring time, but it does work. Frequency: Thanks, Larry, for your comments. I forgot about CFH and obviously you must make a judgement about that. The Eu bandplan has a data allocation around 137.5, but that is not necessarily optimum for transcontinental. Tests: I have made recordings on the last two nights and can make WOLF lock onto something but little intelligence so far. Last night I used 11025Hz sampling which seems to make a bigger file but still nothing readable yet. I will keep trying. 73 Mike, G3XDV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25917 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2001 23:20:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Apr 2001 23:20:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 29768 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2001 23:20:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 28 Apr 2001 23:20:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tdiD-0006a0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 00:01:13 +0100 Received: from mail4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.211]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tdiC-0006Zv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 00:01:12 +0100 Received: from modem-101.aranwe.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.120.101] helo=g3aqc) by mail4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14tdhi-0002qg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 29 Apr 2001 00:00:42 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c0d02e$b1c00b80$6578883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Beacon tonight Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 23:00:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
NASA says more CMEs so tonight may be last chance for a while. Running slightly differently in response to Alberto's pics.
Still use 30 sec. ARGO but my dots 40 sec long with 20sec gaps. Looks a bit more readable here. Same old freq. 135.922.
 73s Laurie. 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21984 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2001 21:10:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Apr 2001 21:10:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 4786 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2001 21:10:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 28 Apr 2001 21:10:03 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tbf8-0005bW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 21:49:54 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tbf7-0005bR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 21:49:53 +0100 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14tbed-000LWv-0C for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 20:49:24 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AEB2DBE.194E5A9C@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 21:53:18 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: Re. Pre-amps References: <001c01c0cee7$3843ab60$ba62883e@g3aqc> <000601c0cf47$124ae620$a7ce28c3@ericadodd> <001f01c0cfca$3bb5fda0$f4eb7ad5@dave> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave G3YMC wrote: > I am following this thread with interest because as you know I use my > transmitting loop as an excellent receive antenna. I do not (yet) have > a vertical resonant antenna for the band - I would be interested in > Steve GW4ALG has any problems in loop detuning from his main antenna, > as his loop is of similar dimensions to mine. Although I have never noticed any detuning of my vertical antenna when adjusting the tuning of my loop antenna, the message from Dave prompted me to check this out right away. I have a single-turn delta loop of 65 m perimeter, and also find it excellent for receive. It is fed at the top using balanced feeder and is tuned & matched to 50 ohms with a balanced tuning unit. No pre-amp is used. Details can be found at: http://www.alg.demon.co.uk/radio/136/loop.htm My 12 m experimental vertical antenna is very close to one end of the loop. For details see: http://www.alg.demon.co.uk/radio/136/experi_vert.htm This evening, when monitoring the TX SWR into the resonant vertical (very close to 1:1), I found no change in SWR when: - tuning the loop antenna either side of resonance (with the coax-side of the tuner terminated in 50 ohms); - disconnecting the shack end of the balanced feeder from the tuner; - applying a short circuit to the shack end of the balanced feeder; or, - grounding the shorted balanced feeder. As you can imagine, the tuning of my short vertical is very sharp. I can even see the SWR change when the wind blows. So I'm very surprised that there appears to be so significant interaction between the two antennas. Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1565 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2001 21:09:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 28 Apr 2001 21:09:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 16217 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2001 21:08:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 28 Apr 2001 21:08:41 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tbdk-0005bP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 21:48:28 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tbdj-0005bK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 21:48:27 +0100 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14tbdF-0004Sa-0A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 20:47:58 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AEB2D67.2DDE4264@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 21:51:51 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Group" Subject: Re: LF: Getting started on LF? References: <000201c0d00f$c6f1dc00$0b00a8c0@moose1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Roger G3VKM wrote: > Any advice for a newcomer would be appreciated, for instance - > is the LF Experimenter's book likely to be of use to me? Most definitely! The Handbook is edited by Peter G3LDO - an experienced author and LF experimenter (and an active member of this Reflector). Once you've got it, you'll want to read it 'cover to cover'! > However, I wonder if there's a group or reflector better suited to the > LF "beginner"? There's no better place than this Reflector! Even though some of the topics may not be of immediate interest to you, I would suggest that you start an 'LF' folder in your Email directory, and start creating your own reference library today - you never know when it will come in handy! So, a warm 'welcome', Roger. And keep the questions coming. Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG http://www.alg.demon.co.uk/radio/136/intro.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13516 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2001 20:32:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Apr 2001 20:32:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 17243 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2001 20:32:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 28 Apr 2001 20:32:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tbHl-0005Uo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 21:25:45 +0100 Received: from tomts8.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.52] helo=tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tbHk-0005Uj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 21:25:44 +0100 Received: from server1 ([216.209.110.86]) by tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010428202439.BIBK26551.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 16:24:39 -0400 Message-ID: <004701c0d021$0c66b650$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3AE8196D.2654.C681E0@localhost> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Wolf Tests Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 16:23:06 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike Dennison et all: > > No comments from you lately so I will reiterate, I am sending you WOLF every > > night from 01 utc to 02 utc...........137.7894 is the TX freq > > Larry > > VA3LK >Does anyone know of a way to make a WAV file on a > timer? I suspect by now this has been solved. > Secondly - and this will cause some discussion (smoke!) I hope not, we dont need any of that kind of discussion as I see it...... - there is > considerable wideband noise at the top of the band very late at night. It is > usually attributed to the Luxemburg Effect. In the past it has caused little > problem as (1) we have used only QRS which by virtue of its bandwidth has a > high level of immunity to wideband QRM, and (2) there is very little activity at > the times the noise on on - This is a regretable situation. >note that VE1ZZ used a much lower frequency. I > think this will make it much more difficult to receive a WOLF transmission than > QRSS. The 136.5 frequency as used by VE1ZZ earlier this year was the subject of extensive discussion that was not complimentary as to the location with the European 136 Band Plan. I choose not to tempt fate by transmitting in that area. >I suggest that Larry uses a frequency closer to the 'data' allocation, > say 137.400kHz. "'data' allocation" that must be part of a European LF Band Plan that apparently does not consider North American requirements. There is no way I would transmit 400 Hz from CFH, that would be an unwise move even if I did it once just for fun - it would not be taken well. > I am keen to listen for Larry but these two obstacles are making it not > worthwhile at the moment. I did operate on 137.75 and that was a problem because of the European LF Band Plan, I moved, based on a strong recommendation up to 137.790. 137.790 is clear in ZL and VK and I do not have at the moment a way to remotely change the DDS frequency in any case. If I was to move over 1 kHz I would have to retune the loading coil for optimum output and while I now have a tuning mechanism to do this I do not have a driver motor that will survive being exposed to the elements. If the WOLF transmissions are not going to be readable in Europe we have the option to change the time, or add another hour at a different time, or the digital session can be ended if it is not being used by anyone. Comments? Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17136 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2001 19:15:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 28 Apr 2001 19:15:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 4025 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2001 19:15:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 28 Apr 2001 19:15:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tZxy-0004oa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 20:01:14 +0100 Received: from cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.177]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tZxs-0004oS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 20:01:09 +0100 Received: from modem-179.elendur.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.184.179] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14tZxO-0002lP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 20:00:39 +0100 Message-ID: <001501c0d00d$27f20aa0$b3b8883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. Getting started on LF. Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 19:00:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi Roger,
Dont worry about advanced topics,everyone on the reflector will help with any queries,they certainly did with me when I started.Yes the LF Experimenters book is the "Bible"
Many people have used the Datong RX converter but it has one small problem, the internal xtal is always a bit off frequency so signals appear 200 Hz or so off tune.You cant shift it so dont worry just learn to live it ,Hi.
Best of luck,hope to hear you on the band soon,and dont hesitate to ask if you have a problem. 73s Laurie. G3AQC.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 89 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2001 19:02:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Apr 2001 19:02:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 1387 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2001 19:02:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 28 Apr 2001 19:02:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tZks-0004hX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 19:47:42 +0100 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tZkr-0004hS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 19:47:41 +0100 Received: from [213.122.222.39] (helo=default) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14tZkN-0002O9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 19:47:12 +0100 Message-ID: <003001c0d013$37dd9b40$5b5001d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: re getting started on LF Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 19:43:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Roger, ...WOW nearly a local !! Dont be put of by some of the highly sophisticated things you see on the reflector. I think all the subscribers would rush to say that it caters for all levels of experience. Dont be afraid to ask, what may seem like a silly question....if you don't know the answer ...then it's not a silly question. There are a number of very useful web sites that you should make a point of visiting that have a lot of useful and up to the minute stuff. Probably the best general guide is Rik's site www.qsl.net/on7yd also Dave's (G3YXM) site has a lot of links to other useful information. www.wireless.org.uk I think that is right but Dave will issue a correction if I screwed it up. I am sure that you will find links to most of the other reflector 'regulars'. Look for G3YMC, GW4ALG,G3XDV, DK8KW Stick with it, this Group is the nearest I can think of to an enthusiastic 1960s era Club ( you should remember those ) There are too few of us around to split the party up. Nice to see a new call, and I hope to hear you soon. Cheers de Alan G3NYK JO02PB (IPSWICH) Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1180 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2001 18:24:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Apr 2001 18:24:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 2759 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2001 18:24:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 28 Apr 2001 18:24:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tZKE-0004am-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 19:20:10 +0100 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tZKD-0004ah-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 19:20:09 +0100 Received: from [213.122.28.146] (helo=moose1) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14tZJj-0000et-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 19:19:40 +0100 Message-ID: <000201c0d00f$c6f1dc00$0b00a8c0@moose1> From: "Roger Basford" To: "LF GROUP" Subject: LF: Getting started on LF? Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 18:21:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi, I have been reading the reflector for a couple of days and can see that there are some very advanced topics being discussed. However, I wonder if there's a group or reflector better suited to the LF "beginner"? I'm just setting up on 137 kHz and hope to be on-air in a few weeks (or months!) with a G0MRF 300 Watt TX and Datong RX convertor. Any advice for a newcomer would be appreciated, for instance - is the LF Experimenter's book likely to be of use to me? Are there any nets on other bands for LF operators? Roger Basford (G3VKM) East Norfolk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9324 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2001 15:14:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Apr 2001 15:14:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 19629 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2001 15:14:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 28 Apr 2001 15:14:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tWAj-0003G5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 15:58:09 +0100 Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.43]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tWAf-0003G0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 15:58:05 +0100 Received: from compaq ([62.253.48.35]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010428145736.XLDO283.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@compaq> for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 15:57:36 +0100 Message-ID: <002601c0cff3$8eea5ba0$2330fd3e@compaq> From: "Tracey Gardner" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RF Systems LFA 520 Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 15:57:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Has anybody got any suggestions as to any "nasties" that Harald could look for on this new antenna? I've already suggested the 60/198kHz giving 138kHz, one. 73s Tracey -----Original Message----- From: HaraldKuhl@aol.com Date: 28 April 2001 15:15 Subject: [mwc] RF Systems LFA 520 Hi there NDB´ers & VLF´ers. I am currently doing some testing with the RF Systems LFA 520 (LFA: Low Frequency Antenna) working from 9 to 520 kHz (higher frequencies are blocked). Just in case you have any specific suggestions for things I should look at, please do not hesitate to give me a hint. tnx vy73 Harald From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27118 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2001 10:17:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 28 Apr 2001 10:17:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 26128 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2001 10:17:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 28 Apr 2001 10:17:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tRWv-0001IY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 11:00:45 +0100 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tRWu-0001IR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 11:00:44 +0100 Received: from [213.122.235.244] (helo=dave) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14tRWJ-0004LU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 11:00:07 +0100 Message-ID: <001f01c0cfca$3bb5fda0$f4eb7ad5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" References: <001c01c0cee7$3843ab60$ba62883e@g3aqc> <000601c0cf47$124ae620$a7ce28c3@ericadodd> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re. Pre-amps Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 11:00:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Peter G3LDO wrote: >I have made a number of LF loops and have not had much luck with pre-amps; >they all seemed a bit noisy or I found there were lots of signals around >that shouldn't be there This probably shows the problems of preamps which are broadband with no selectivity other than that of the loop itself. My transverter does have a preamp in it, but it is preceded and followed by a parallel tuned circuit at 136. A minimum of two tuned circuits was found to be necessary to get rid of the 60kHz/198kHz intermod product on 138kHz. I suspect, apart from Luxembourg effects we often see on DCF39, most of the reported problems with IMPs from the BC band (not just loop preamps) are due to insufficient front end selectivity. I am following this thread with interest because as you know I use my transmitting loop as an excellent receive antenna. I do not (yet) have a vertical resonant antenna for the band - I would be interested in Steve GW4ALG has any problems in loop detuning from his main antenna, as his loop is of similar dimensions to mine. 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@btinternet.com dsergeant@iee.org http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11827 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2001 09:57:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Apr 2001 09:57:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 16865 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2001 09:56:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 28 Apr 2001 09:56:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tRDY-0001Al-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 10:40:44 +0100 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tRDX-0001Ag-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 10:40:43 +0100 Received: from [213.122.59.79] (helo=default) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14tRD3-00022X-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 10:40:14 +0100 Message-ID: <000001c0cfcf$fe8b5d20$4f3b7ad5@default> From: "Fred Rattray" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20010427101015.085fece4@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <3AE9C14B.73BB9A48@usa.net> Subject: LF: Re: Re: DFCW an idea. Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 10:24:14 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Could you not use a standard time source such as that available from the GPS satellite system, or where it can be received MSF. Fred G4SPR ----- Original Message ----- From: "Alberto di Bene" To: Sent: 27 April 2001 18:58 Subject: LF: Re: DFCW an idea. > Rik Strobbe wrote: > > [snip] > > The most recent version of QRS supports 'time synchronisation'. I am not a > > specialist in DSP stuff, but my 'intuition' says that the knowledge of the > > exact start/stop time of a dot can be used to improve SNR. > > > > 73, Rik ON7YD > > The ideal way would be to know the exact time (i.e. phase) and frequency of > the audio tone, so that to implement a matched filter, but this requires > IMHO a Rubidium standard at least, an item not commonly found in the average > OM shack (not in mine anyway). > > 73 Alberto I2PHD > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21559 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2001 09:35:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Apr 2001 09:35:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 10751 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2001 09:35:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 28 Apr 2001 09:35:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tQpN-0000t2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 10:15:45 +0100 Received: from mail4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.211]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tQpL-0000ss-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 10:15:43 +0100 Received: from modem-33.pajama-cardinal.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.45.161] helo=g3aqc) by mail4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14tQop-0005LW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 10:15:12 +0100 Message-ID: <002401c0cfbb$5e5c11a0$a12d893e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. DFCW Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 09:06:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Thanks Alberto for your excellent picture of my sigs, and comments. This pic. is better than my local monitoring ! but of course there is no noise visible,and I guess it is this which blurrs the inter- element gaps. Also if the signal energy in the blurring areas was in the actual element there would no doubt be an increase in readability. But I appreciate this is very difficult to achieve without very accurate timing. . Anyway I shall try out your ideas.
73s Laurie
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18455 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2001 09:32:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Apr 2001 09:32:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 2817 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2001 09:32:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 28 Apr 2001 09:32:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tQpN-0000t4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 10:15:45 +0100 Received: from mail4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.211]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tQpL-0000st-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 10:15:43 +0100 Received: from modem-33.pajama-cardinal.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.45.161] helo=g3aqc) by mail4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14tQor-0005LW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 10:15:13 +0100 Message-ID: <002501c0cfbb$5f71c760$a12d893e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. Pre-Amps Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 09:14:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Thanks Peter for your comments.I can see that there is a graet deal in what you say about high output (large size) high "Q" LItz wound loops. The high Q does the filtering ! and no Amp is needed so NO IPs. as Rik says. However I will persevere with my big untuned loops, but mebbe I need to build one of yours for comparison . 73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7182 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2001 07:40:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Apr 2001 07:40:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 7713 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2001 07:40:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 28 Apr 2001 07:40:00 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tP3G-00007v-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 08:21:58 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout00.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tP3F-00007q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 08:21:57 +0100 Received: from fwd07.sul.t-online.com by mailout00.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14tP2m-0006rn-04; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 09:21:28 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0607144537-0001@[217.3.93.159]) by fwd07.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14tP2l-09XUCOC; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 09:21:27 +0200 From: "bernd grupe" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: TECH: loops and tx-antennas(near-field-effects) X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 09:21:27 +0200 Message-ID: <14tP2l-09XUCOC@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0607144537-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Peter and all, You wrote: >I confirm that the loop characteristics are very much modified by the nearby >resonant LF transmitting antenna and the fix is to detune the Tx antenna on >receive.... about preventing couplingeffects between tx-antennas and rx-loops Bob(ZL2CA) was quite right when he posted: > The practical solution is to leave the vertical floating during LF receive. and yes Alan, there is a simple solution: disconnect the loadingcoil from earth by a remote controlled relayswitch at the "cold" point of the coil(disconnect it from the earthwires) and also the Koax. vy 73 Bernd, DF8ZR From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5446 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2001 23:49:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Apr 2001 23:49:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 17437 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2001 23:48:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 27 Apr 2001 23:48:54 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tHhM-0005eK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 00:30:52 +0100 Received: from d06lmsgate-2.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tHhJ-0005eF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 00:30:50 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.147]) by d06lmsgate-2.uk.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id AAA19510 for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 00:14:16 +0100 Received: from usa.net (ss2.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.67]) by d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.96) with ESMTP id AAA40990 for ; Sat, 28 Apr 2001 00:29:42 +0100 Message-ID: <3AEA006E.C1F57815@usa.net> Date: Sat, 28 Apr 2001 01:27:43 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Mailing List" Subject: LF: DFCW Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060904010502010706050608" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060904010502010706050608 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit In the attempt to further adjust the settings for optimal DFCW reception, this evening
(or should I say morning...) I received G3AQC in this way :

The single elements are clearly differentiated. Admittedly, the signal wasn't one of the faintest
I have received since playing with LF, but I am convinced that with some care the blurring
problem can be at least minimized. The key is to keep the sensitivity at the practical minimum
for the signal being received, and the contrast at a medium-high setting.

73  Alberto  I2PHD
P.S. Sorry for the HTML posting.
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Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29585 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2001 19:10:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 27 Apr 2001 19:10:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 19094 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2001 19:10:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 27 Apr 2001 19:10:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tDUW-0003lu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 20:01:20 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06lmsgate-2.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tDUV-0003kd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 20:01:19 +0100 Received: from d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.147]) by d06lmsgate-2.uk.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id TAA183590 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 19:44:50 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (ss2.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.67]) by d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.96) with ESMTP id UAA38706 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 20:00:17 +0100 Message-ID: <3AE9C14B.73BB9A48@usa.net> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 20:58:19 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: DFCW an idea. References: <3.0.1.16.20010427101015.085fece4@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik Strobbe wrote: [snip] > The most recent version of QRS supports 'time synchronisation'. I am not a > specialist in DSP stuff, but my 'intuition' says that the knowledge of the > exact start/stop time of a dot can be used to improve SNR. > > 73, Rik ON7YD The ideal way would be to know the exact time (i.e. phase) and frequency of the audio tone, so that to implement a matched filter, but this requires IMHO a Rubidium standard at least, an item not commonly found in the average OM shack (not in mine anyway). 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19249 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2001 19:01:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 27 Apr 2001 19:01:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 21188 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2001 19:01:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 27 Apr 2001 19:01:10 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tDOb-0003k2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 19:55:13 +0100 Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.162]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tDOa-0003jx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 19:55:13 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.10.) id l.30.140a7ede (3874) for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 14:54:06 -0400 (EDT) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <30.140a7ede.281b1a4d@aol.com> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 14:54:05 EDT Subject: LF: Re CT1DRP, G3AQC; CW timing To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 72 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Alberto and LF-group, > Very good signals from CT1DRP and G3AQC, this latter > using DFCW.... > http://www.qsl.net/i2phd/argo/drpaqc.html Look for third faint trace in the image, 0.2 Hz above Laurie's HF dashes :-) Re DFCW timing: Usually, I try to roughly synchronize my QRSS / DFCW transmissions to a raster of dot-periods in a minute. Its easy to do that manually, I simply look at the DCF77-controlled clock on the wall and hit the Return-key at any integer multiple of 6s / 8s. CW dash/dot ratio: A classic 3-to-1 ratio may not be as efficient as 2-to-1, but it has an interesting property: All possible rising edges are locked to a fixed two-dot-raster, with an interleaved second raster for the falling edges. This might help a receiver to synchronize, and also contribute to the typical rythmic sound. 73, have fun Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20624 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2001 18:28:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Apr 2001 18:28:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 26726 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2001 18:27:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 27 Apr 2001 18:27:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tCs9-0003Ru-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 19:21:41 +0100 Received: from amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.45]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tCs5-0003Ro-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 19:21:37 +0100 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-1-167.easynet.co.uk [195.40.206.167]) by amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 782331805C for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 19:20:25 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <000601c0cf47$124ae620$a7ce28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001c01c0cee7$3843ab60$ba62883e@g3aqc> Subject: LF: Re: Re. Pre-amps Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 13:00:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >Many thanks to everone who responded to my comments on pre-amps and loops.I >am still not certain what to do-but at least have some more ideas. I hope that the >resulting discussion was of general intrest. 73s Laurie. Hi Laurie, I have made a number of LF loops and have not had much luck with pre-amps; they all seemed a bit noisy or I found there were lots of signals around that shouldn't be there. I found the best loop is the 2m square one that is described on my web site, wound with Litz wire and without an amplifier. I confirm that the loop characteristics are very much modified by the nearby resonant LF transmitting antenna and the fix is to detune the Tx antenna on receive. It is also a good idea to detune the receive loop on transmit! Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11089 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2001 15:50:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Apr 2001 15:50:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 21776 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2001 15:50:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 27 Apr 2001 15:50:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tAGe-0002J5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 16:34:48 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06lmsgate-3.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14tAGb-0002J0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 16:34:45 +0100 Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by d06lmsgate-3.uk.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id QAA120840 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 16:24:22 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (ss10.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.76]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.96) with ESMTP id QAA255928 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 16:33:12 +0100 Message-ID: <3AE990C3.E4884D9D@usa.net> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 17:31:15 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Mailing List" Subject: LF: CT1DRP, G3AQC and DFCW Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Very good signals from CT1DRP and G3AQC, this latter using DFCW. About DFCW, with the proper settings it is not mandatory that consecutive elements of the same letter should run together. As an example, look at the screen captures of yesterday evening : http://www.qsl.net/i2phd/argo/drpaqc.html 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2684 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2001 13:41:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 27 Apr 2001 13:41:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 20551 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2001 13:41:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 27 Apr 2001 13:41:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14t8O3-0001Ub-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 14:34:19 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14t8Nw-0001UW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 14:34:13 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id OAA16933; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 14:37:23 +0100 (BST) Received: (qmail 10625 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2001 14:27:58 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 27 Apr 2001 14:27:58 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id OAA01264; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 14:24:26 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma001251; Fri, 27 Apr 01 14:24:05 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-3.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id ; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 14:40:29 +0100 Received: by frn-mail-3.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 14:33:10 +0100 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C046A@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: "LF Group \(E-mail\)" , "KZY \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: New DDS Chips Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 14:33:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit

HF Instruments now have a limited number of AD9851 DDS Chips.  These are functionally similar to and have the same connections as the AD9850 as used in my DDS module, and are backward compatible with it for commands but can be used at a higher clock rate, up to 180MHz. 
 
The AD9851 includes an optional on chip X6 PLL multiplier so the actual clock oscillator need only be up to 30MHz rather than finding TTL oscillators up to the full clock rate.  The data sheet states that the added phase noise due to the PLL is 'not noticable'
 
The chips are available on a first come first served basis at £29 each from HF Instruments.  Bare boards are also available at £8 each (but the chips cannot be supplied alread mounted).
Please note also that HF Instruments are no longer able to take credit card orders, only cheques or similar can be accepted.  WWW.HF-INST.CO.UK
 
Andy  G4JNT
 


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 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7977 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2001 12:13:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 27 Apr 2001 12:13:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 13911 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2001 12:13:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 27 Apr 2001 12:13:52 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14t6xU-0000tl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 13:02:48 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.164]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14t6xS-0000td-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 13:02:46 +0100 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.10.) id l.ab.8d91933 (1781) for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 08:01:41 -0400 (EDT) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 08:01:40 EDT Subject: Re: LF: DFCW, an idea. To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 217 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Mike, Rik and the group,

Concerning an 'adjustable spacing grid' to improve DFCW reception:

The recent versions of Spectrum Lab had a 'time scale' for the waterfall,
wich can be set to any interval in the range of 1 second to several hours.
This "time grid" is a kind of overlay on the waterfall, so it scrolls
together with it.
If you set the interval of the "Waterfall Time Grid" to 4 seconds, you should
be able to see where the dots are (if YOUR and the transmitting station's PC
clock is set properly). I guess this is what Mike ment in his recent posting.

BUT:
I am currently adding a few new functions and improvements to the program
(tnx DF6NM), so maybe you better wait for the next release. The currently
available version is V1.63, still available at www.qsl.net/dl4yhf.
Spectrum Lab is not as easy to use as Alberto's ARGO, because it was never
intended to be a simple QRS viewer (more a 'platform' for own experiments).

Hope this helps a little.

Good luck,
   Wolf (DL4YHF).
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9897 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2001 10:45:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 27 Apr 2001 10:45:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 4373 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2001 10:45:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 27 Apr 2001 10:45:14 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14t5c5-0000CV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 11:36:37 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14t5c1-0000CQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 11:36:34 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14t5bW-00026Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 11:36:02 +0100 Message-ID: <25516.200104271035@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 11:36:17 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Re: Variable phase / BPSK modulators X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, G3YXM has kindly posted the modulator circuits and notes on his web site at http://www.wireless.org.uk/moritz.htm Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14459 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2001 09:16:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 27 Apr 2001 09:16:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 12783 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2001 09:16:11 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 27 Apr 2001 09:16:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14t4Fs-00084e-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 10:09:36 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14t4Fo-00084W-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 10:09:32 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA66952 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 11:09:01 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010427101015.085fece4@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 10:10:15 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re. DFCW an idea. In-reply-to: <001d01c0cee7$3937cf60$ba62883e@g3aqc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 07:55 27/04/01 +0100, you wrote: >Thanks to all for your comments and encouragement. I suppose I should really >like to be able to respond to Rik's ideas about synchronisation between the TX >and RX,but I dont have the necessesary programing expertise to modify any of >the existing programs. The most recent version of QRS supports 'time synchronisation'. I am not a specialist in DSP stuff, but my 'intuition' says that the knowledge of the exact start/stop time of a dot can be used to improve SNR. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22020 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2001 08:02:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Apr 2001 08:02:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 27257 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2001 08:02:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 27 Apr 2001 08:02:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14t37m-0007fl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 08:57:10 +0100 Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14t37j-0007fe-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 08:57:07 +0100 Received: from modem-58.aerin.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.98.186] helo=g3aqc) by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14t37F-0002og-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 08:56:38 +0100 Message-ID: <001d01c0cee7$3937cf60$ba62883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. DFCW an idea. Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 07:55:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Thanks to all for your comments and encouragement. I suppose I should really like to be able to respond to Rik's
ideas about synchronisation between the TX and RX,but I dont have the necessesary programing expertise to modify any of the existing programs.
I do like Steves "wobble mode" and remember the criticism when I inadvertantly used wobble and was identified in Canada.
But I still wonder wether there is anything we can do to modify Argo?  73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21841 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2001 08:02:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Apr 2001 08:02:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 15621 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2001 08:02:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 27 Apr 2001 08:02:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14t37u-0007fn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 08:57:18 +0100 Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14t37h-0007fb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 08:57:06 +0100 Received: from modem-58.aerin.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.98.186] helo=g3aqc) by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14t37E-0002og-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 08:56:36 +0100 Message-ID: <001c01c0cee7$3843ab60$ba62883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. Pre-amps Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 07:47:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Many thanks to everone who responded to my comments on pre-amps and loops.I am still not certain what to do-but at least have some more ideas. I hope that the resulting discussion was of general intrest.  73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1431 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2001 07:45:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Apr 2001 07:45:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 28011 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2001 07:45:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 27 Apr 2001 07:45:35 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14t2qo-0007Xu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 08:39:38 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14t2qj-0007Xd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 08:39:34 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id IAA13633; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 08:42:32 +0100 (BST) Received: (qmail 19893 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2001 08:33:08 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 27 Apr 2001 08:33:08 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id IAA15780; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 08:29:37 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma015761; Fri, 27 Apr 01 08:29:09 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-3.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 08:45:31 +0100 Received: by frn-mail-3.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 08:38:16 +0100 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C0467@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Variable Phase/BPSK circuits Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 08:38:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Yes please ......... Andy 'JNT > The attached JPEG file shows the variable phase and BPSK > spectra generated by the circuits with 100ms and 50ms transitions. > > If anyone is interested, I can send them the circuit diagrams as > JPEG files - they are a bit big for the reflector. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3391 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2001 04:19:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Apr 2001 04:19:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 3651 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2001 04:19:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 27 Apr 2001 04:19:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14szXI-00067k-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 05:07:16 +0100 Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14szXG-00067f-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 05:07:15 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.52.114]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 01:05:58 -0300 Message-ID: <3AE92948.B2030C17@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 04:09:44 -0400 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: lf tests Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all solid "O" copy on CT1DRP at 0330Z 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11514 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2001 22:05:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Apr 2001 22:05:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 13229 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2001 22:04:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Apr 2001 22:04:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14stmF-0003iO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 22:58:19 +0100 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14stmD-0003iJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 22:58:18 +0100 Received: from steve (ppp238.dyn154.pacific.net.au [210.23.154.238]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA07381 for ; Fri, 27 Apr 2001 07:57:45 +1000 Message-ID: <001b01c0ce9c$0d81bc00$0301a8c0@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3AE800AC.10384.65D104@localhost> Subject: Re: LF: DFCW, an idea. Date: Fri, 27 Apr 2001 07:58:32 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G'day Mike and G3ACQ, > conditions, so the small gap was reintroduced. An improvement might be > made by being able to place an adjustable spacing grid over the spectrogram > so that it is much clearer to see when elements should start and stop. This Another way which was suggested to me as an improvement to my soundcard based VFSKCW program is to introduce a wobble on consecutive elements. For example, say the difference between the "dots" and "dashs" is 10Hz. My software detects consecutive dots or dashs and "wobbles" consecutive elements by some % of the difference, nominally 10%. So consecutive elements wobble by 1Hz. The amount of wobble is adjustable to allow better differentiation under marginal conditions. 73s Steve Olney (VK2ZTO/AXSO - QF56IK : Lat -33 34 07, Long +150 44 40) ============================================= HomePage URLs: http://www.qsl.net/vk2zto http://www.zeta.org.au/~ollaneg Containing:- ULF, ELF, VLF & LF Experimentation InfraSonic Experimentation Laser Comms DX Amateur Radio Astronomy ============================================= From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19367 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2001 20:33:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Apr 2001 20:33:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 20452 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2001 20:32:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Apr 2001 20:32:51 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ssHG-00034O-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 21:22:14 +0100 Received: from fortune-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.203] helo=fortune.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ssHF-00034J-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 21:22:13 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from cheeks.excite.com ([199.172.152.207]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010426202113.GWG10124.fortune.excite.com@cheeks.excite.com> for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 13:21:13 -0700 Message-ID: <17371558.988316473373.JavaMail.imail@cheeks.excite.com> Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 13:20:57 -0700 (PDT) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Variable Phase/BPSK circuits MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 62.253.64.5 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Yes please Jim. John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4753 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2001 16:15:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Apr 2001 16:15:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 25030 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2001 16:15:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 26 Apr 2001 16:15:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14soIx-0001Q0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 17:07:43 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14soIt-0001Pu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 17:07:39 +0100 Received: from [213.120.107.81] (helo=mud) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14soIQ-00044H-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 17:07:10 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c0ce6b$3b318ee0$516b78d5@btopenworld.com> From: "G3YXM" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <8416.200104261406@gemini> Subject: LF: Re: Variable Phase/BPSK circuits Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 17:09:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jim. Please send them to me and I'll bung them on the web-site. Dave G3YXM. > > If anyone is interested, I can send them the circuit diagrams as > JPEG files - they are a bit big for the reflector. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4215 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2001 14:31:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Apr 2001 14:31:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 27969 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2001 14:31:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Apr 2001 14:31:30 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14smfm-0000g8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:23:10 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14smfi-0000fz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:23:06 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14smfC-0006FX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:22:34 +0100 Message-ID: <9822.200104261422@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:22:51 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Spectra - Correction X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF group, The frequency scale in the signal spectra should be 50Hz/div, not 100Hz as shown.... Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5017 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2001 14:22:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 26 Apr 2001 14:22:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 16220 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2001 14:22:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 26 Apr 2001 14:22:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14smQC-0000V0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:07:04 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14smQ4-0000Uv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:06:57 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14smPS-0005oZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:06:18 +0100 Message-ID: <8416.200104261406@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 15:06:35 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------010302080000030405020604" Subject: LF: Variable Phase/BPSK circuits X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------010302080000030405020604 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Dear LF Group, I have put together some hopefully fairly accurate circuit diagrams of my variable phase modulator and linear BPSK generator experimental circuits. These are not meant to be fully worked out projects projects, but are complete functioning circuits which could serve as a useful basis for experiment. There are 3 circuits: Phase keying signal shaper, which takes a raw logic signal (eg. from a PC serial port) and converts it into one with approximately raised-cosine shaped transitions. Linear BPSK modulator, which modulates a 137kHz carrier with the shaped phase keying data to produce a few V pk-pk BPSK signal with which to drive a linear PA. Variable phase modulator, which produces a 137kHz carrier with a phase shift proportional to the phase keying signal amplitude, and with the shaping circuit produces "gradual" phase transitions as discussed a little while ago. The attached JPEG file shows the variable phase and BPSK spectra generated by the circuits with 100ms and 50ms transitions. If anyone is interested, I can send them the circuit diagrams as JPEG files - they are a bit big for the reflector. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU --------------010302080000030405020604 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; name="Attachment information..txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Attachment information..txt" The following section of this message contains a file attachment prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format. If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any another MIME-compliant system, you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer. If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance. ---- File information ----------- File: vphase5.jpg Date: 26 Apr 2001, 14:29 Size: 19000 bytes. 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([205.151.69.200]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14slaV-0000FO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 14:13:39 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from 220-135.lr.cgocable.ca (220-135.lr.cgocable.ca [24.226.220.135]) by indyweb.cgocable.ca (8.9.3 (MessagingDirect 1.0.4)/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA3173090 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 09:12:58 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <200104261312.JAA3173090@indyweb.cgocable.ca> X-Sender: bill1@cgocable.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 09:12:57 -0400 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Bill de Carle" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Wolf Tests Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 12:49 PM 4/26/01 +0100, you wrote: >> No comments from you lately so I will reiterate, I am sending you WOLF every >> night from 01 utc to 02 utc...........137.7894 is the TX freq >> Larry >> VA3LK > >Two issues arise here. > >Firstly, now we have daylight saving time 01 to 02 UTC is 2-3AM which is not >a comfortable time. Does anyone know of a way to make a WAV file on a >timer? I could record overnight but I suspect the file would be enormous. I use CRUNCH - if you invoke the program with "TIME" it lets you specify when to start recording (according to your computer's time of day clock) and how many minutes to record. It's all automatic so you can snooze while the computer is doing all the work, hi! Runs as a DOS program. CRUNCH can take input from a Sigma-Delta interface or from ES688 or SB16 type sound cards. If you don't use time compression, CRUNCH will write a .wav file (either 8 or 16 bit according to the live source specified) at the same sampling rate. I.e. with the SD interface, the .wav file will be 8-bit with a sampling rate of 7200. Earlier versions of WOLF needed exactly 8000 samples per second in the .wav file - if you're still using an earlier version I can send you a little program called WOLFUDGE which just alters the header in the WOLFR.WAV file to "say" it's 8000 samples per second. You will need to tell WOLF the exact sampling rate anyway once it starts. CRUNCH is available for download from my web site at: http://cafe.rapidus.net/bill1/bbs.htm 73 de Bill VE2IQ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23206 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2001 12:21:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 26 Apr 2001 12:21:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 10687 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2001 12:21:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Apr 2001 12:21:01 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14skfA-0008ML-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 13:14:24 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14skf9-0008MG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 13:14:23 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id NAA07353; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 13:17:29 +0100 (BST) Received: (qmail 21524 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2001 13:08:09 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 2001 13:08:09 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id NAA18097; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 13:04:42 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma018057; Thu, 26 Apr 01 13:04:18 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 13:20:32 +0100 Received: by frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 13:13:24 +0100 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C0466@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: LF Forum - Wolf Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 13:13:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Tnx Jim, I have managed to work out how the coding works (finally !) and can go into that side of things if anyone is interested. Andy G4JNT > Dear LF Group, > > Since somehow or another I seem to have gained the most > experience of any UK amateur of successfully transmitting and > receiving "Wolf" mode signals, I could put together a short talk > about the practicalities of the mode for the LF Forum. I think any > demonstration would have to be of the "off line" type due to the > time and setting up involved. I don't claim to have in-depth > knowledge of how Wolf works, or the encoding techniques used, > so ideally someone else could provide some info on these areas. > > Would this be of interest? Please let me know. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9773 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2001 12:11:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Apr 2001 12:11:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 28713 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2001 12:11:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Apr 2001 12:11:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14skU2-0008C4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 13:02:54 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14skTz-0008Bz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 13:02:53 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:49:51 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:49:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Re: Wolf Tests Message-ID: <3AE8196D.2654.C681E0@localhost> In-reply-to: <002101c0c9e2$8de1ef00$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > No comments from you lately so I will reiterate, I am sending you WOLF every > night from 01 utc to 02 utc...........137.7894 is the TX freq > Larry > VA3LK Two issues arise here. Firstly, now we have daylight saving time 01 to 02 UTC is 2-3AM which is not a comfortable time. Does anyone know of a way to make a WAV file on a timer? I could record overnight but I suspect the file would be enormous. Secondly - and this will cause some discussion (smoke!) - there is considerable wideband noise at the top of the band very late at night. It is usually attributed to the Luxemburg Effect. In the past it has caused little problem as (1) we have used only QRS which by virtue of its bandwidth has a high level of immunity to wideband QRM, and (2) there is very little activity at the times the noise on on - note that VE1ZZ used a much lower frequency. I think this will make it much more difficult to receive a WOLF transmission than QRSS. I suggest that Larry uses a frequency closer to the 'data' allocation, say 137.400kHz. I am keen to listen for Larry but these two obstacles are making it not worthwhile at the moment. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19153 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2001 11:49:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Apr 2001 11:49:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 4250 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2001 11:49:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Apr 2001 11:49:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sk7L-000845-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:39:27 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sk7G-000840-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:39:23 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id MAA07297; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:42:30 +0100 (BST) Received: (qmail 17187 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2001 12:33:09 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 2001 12:33:09 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id MAA12129; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:29:42 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma012115; Thu, 26 Apr 01 12:29:16 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:45:29 +0100 Received: by frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:38:21 +0100 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C0465@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: LF Calibration and Loran lines Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 12:38:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
I'm glad the 1000 Hz line is accounted for !  Thinking about this last night there should not be any IM Products at all, as an AM detector will just give the envelope of the pulses as a series of spikes. 
 
Andy
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
From: DL4YHF@aol.com [mailto:DL4YHF@aol.com]
Sent: 2001-04-25 17:18
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Re: LF Calibration and Loran lines
So the 1000.0000 Hz are really there, as "AF harmonic" from Western Russia.

I can only confirm this, because that line is not as strong as those from the
Lessay and Sylt chains


--
The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence
is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s).
For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution,
or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is
prohibited and may be unlawful.
 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2932 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2001 10:25:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Apr 2001 10:25:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 22867 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2001 10:25:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 26 Apr 2001 10:25:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sipj-0007ZA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 11:17:11 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14siph-0007Z5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 11:17:10 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 11:04:14 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 11:04:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: DFCW, an idea. Message-ID: <3AE800AC.10384.65D104@localhost> In-reply-to: <001001c0c64c$3aed0580$bc31893e@g3aqc> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3ACQ wrote: > I am very keen on exploiting DFCW to its limit (after all its easy to implement) > but it still needs to be speeded up. Because of the lack of timing of the FFT > bins they tend to become blurred and it is neccessary to leave large gaps > between elements of a character with consequent waste of time.This is even more > true with QRSS. With DFCW the frequency change between dots and dashes > adequately separates them. Currently on T/A tests I have been using a 50 sec. > period, 30 secs constitutes the transmitted element and 20 secs the gap ! What a > waste of time. [cut] So > my point is WHY BOTHER ! would it not still be possible to read the message > without these gaps (they are hardly there anyway). For A to Z there is not much > of a problem since there are only two adjacent elements ie 2 dots or two dashes, > except for JO S H .But the numbers are a bigger problem. Anyway, crazy perhaps > but any ideas ? Not crazy at all, and some early DFCW transmissions had no gaps at all between elements. It was, however, rather difficult to read under practical conditions, so the small gap was reintroduced. An improvement might be made by being able to place an adjustable spacing grid over the spectrogram so that it is much clearer to see when elements should start and stop. This would give a practical advantage in noisy conditions, whilst being much easier to implement (at the user level) than time synchronisation. Is this practical in Argo or any of the other visual CW readers? Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25874 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2001 10:01:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Apr 2001 10:01:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 23585 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2001 10:00:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 26 Apr 2001 10:00:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14siTX-0007Mw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:54:15 +0100 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14siTT-0007Mr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:54:11 +0100 Received: from [213.122.218.245] (helo=default) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14siT0-0000qg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 10:53:42 +0100 Message-ID: <000201c0ce36$5d5ff720$f5da7ad5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: RX Loops and wires Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 00:30:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, Bernt mentioned about coupling between an RX loop and a wire aerial loading coil. I believe it does not have to be the loading coil and an inverted 'L' ,for instance, can act as a one turn coupling loop, coupling signal into a small multiturn loop, even with the loading coil orthoganal to the RX loop. I have not tried turning the loop at right angles to the plane of the 'L' though. Disconnecting the wire from ground, or the Rx, returns the normal response of the loop. One question (am I being silly ??) but if you match a loop by tapping the feeder into it, or using a coupling loop, are you not loosing 3dB of the signal? I suppose this only matters if you don't have more aerial noise than the front end in the RX. I use a similar preamp to Tony, but a single ended one, that puts the FET gate directly across the tuned loop with no bias resistors. Then the coax is fed from an emitter follower. Although the gain on mine is too much I do get a useful advantage on very weak signals. This is probably because the Q is relatively low ( around 50) because of the thin multipath telephone cable used. On the noise front, I find I can detect a 10nV (in normal band noise, but with local QRM off) in the 0.3Hz bandwidth of Spectrogram. I do not have a stable enough source to measure this in the bandwidths that John and Laurie are using with Argo. I now have a DDS source to play with, so that may change. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18878 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 22:56:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 22:56:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 565 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 22:56:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 22:56:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sY7i-000313-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 23:51:02 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d12lmsgate-2.de.ibm.com ([195.212.91.200]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sY7h-00030y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 23:51:01 +0100 Received: from d12relay02.de.ibm.com (d12relay02.de.ibm.com [9.165.215.23]) by d12lmsgate-2.de.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id AAA307996 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 00:50:01 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (ss9.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.75]) by d12relay02.de.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.96) with ESMTP id AAA31786 for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 00:49:59 +0200 Message-ID: <3AE75429.62FAA295@usa.net> Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 00:48:09 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RX-Loops References: <14sRJx-24toOWC@fwd03.sul.t-online.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: bernd grupe wrote: > > Hi Alberto and all, > when i was operating a loop as an rx-antenna there > was a very close and effective interaction with the loadingcoil of the > TX-marconi in a distance of more than 10 mtrs! Hi Bernd, this will bother me after I will have built a TX antenna ! For the time being, I am content with just receiving. In the deepness of my heart, I am a SWL, not an OM ! Of course, I'm exaggerating a bit here, but there is much more to learn in listening, than in talking, as an old adage says. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10358 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 22:45:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 22:45:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 17369 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 22:44:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 22:44:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sXty-0002v4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 23:36:50 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06lmsgate-2.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sXtv-0002uz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 23:36:47 +0100 Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by d06lmsgate-2.uk.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id XAA149228 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 23:20:20 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (ss9.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.75]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.96) with ESMTP id XAA256682 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 23:35:46 +0100 Message-ID: <3AE750D5.15CC875D@usa.net> Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 00:33:57 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Calibration and Loran lines References: <3AE5F6C3.88A48ADF@usa.net> <14sPXg-1SvPeKC@fwd03.sul.t-online.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: jannsen wrote: > > Hi Alberto, > de dj8wx/Uwe > I guess it has been Wolf. > His mail datet 20.03.01: [snip] Hi Uwe, yes, that's the post I was looking for. Thanks to you and all those who sent it via private mail. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23586 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 21:13:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 21:13:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 3427 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 21:13:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 21:13:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sWUf-0002KC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:06:37 +0100 Received: from mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sWUd-0002K0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:06:36 +0100 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.178.85]) by mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010425210537.RDMM996647.mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 09:05:37 +1200 Message-ID: <004801c0cdcb$adf2ce80$aab51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <8857.200104251557@gemini> Subject: LF: Re: LF Forum - Wolf Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 09:06:05 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jim, > Dear LF Group, > > Since somehow or another I seem to have gained the most > experience of any UK amateur of successfully transmitting and > receiving "Wolf" mode signals, I could put together a short talk > about the practicalities of the mode for the LF Forum. I think any > demonstration would have to be of the "off line" type due to the > time and setting up involved. I don't claim to have in-depth > knowledge of how Wolf works, or the encoding techniques used, > so ideally someone else could provide some info on these areas. > > Would this be of interest? Please let me know. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU I wish I could be there, it should be a howling success. 73, Bob From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25121 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 21:13:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 21:13:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 3403 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 21:13:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 21:13:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sWUc-0002K6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:06:34 +0100 Received: from mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sWUY-0002Jy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 22:06:31 +0100 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.178.85]) by mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010425210531.RDLS996647.mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Thu, 26 Apr 2001 09:05:31 +1200 Message-ID: <004701c0cdcb$aa592d00$aab51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001001c0cd8a$9c2ab780$02666ec3@cestag> Subject: LF: Re: Loop preamps Date: Thu, 26 Apr 2001 09:03:23 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, A further point about frame loop (magnetic) receiving performance is that the near field is generally smaller than for a similar dimensioned (active) (electric) vertical whip antenna. If neighbourhood QRM is a nuisance, then a well-sited frame loop can generally outperform a well-sited active whip, with the difference being the near field pattern. As others have commented, the pre-amp noise figure is unlikely to show up as a limitation (relative to QRN and QRM). I have also found considerable mutual coupling between my top-loaded vertical transmitting antenna (when tuned) and any LF receiving antenna I have tried, anywhere within my suburban section. The near field of the tuned transmitting antenna goes far beyond my own boundary! The practical solution is to leave the vertical floating during LF receive. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19988 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 18:44:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 18:44:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 11089 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 18:43:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 18:43:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sUBP-0001Ku-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 19:38:35 +0100 Received: from mail1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.18]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sUBM-0001Kp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 19:38:32 +0100 Received: from modem-3.dunland.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.161.3] helo=g3aqc) by mail1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14sUAr-0000fh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 19:38:02 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c0cdae$7d7cac20$03a1883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Tests Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 18:37:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Thanks to John we are getting some useful information on T/A in less than ideal conditions. So I am encouraged to continue with the beacon at least for the next few nights when Alan thinks condx. may improve. Power is still about 350mW.
73s Laurie
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19613 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 18:16:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 18:16:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 10154 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 18:16:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 18:16:05 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sTfc-00018V-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 19:05:44 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from posti.mesta.net ([195.197.53.227] helo=kauha.saunalahti.fi) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sTfb-00018P-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 19:05:43 +0100 Received: from pmk2 (DXXVI.tdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.80.26]) by kauha.saunalahti.fi (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id f3PI5U316390 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 21:05:30 +0300 (EEST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Paul Keinanen" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Pre-amps. Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 21:06:02 +0300 Message-ID: References: <001501c0cce5$fde69ca0$4527893e@g3aqc> <3.0.1.16.20010425094349.309747e8@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> In-reply-to: <3.0.1.16.20010425094349.309747e8@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On Wed, 25 Apr 2001 09:43:49, Rik Strobbe wrote: >Hello Laurie, > >In most circumstances SNR will be determined by the 'band noise' (QRM - >QRN), so the noise figure of a pre-amp won't matter too much (anything >below 10dB should be fine). But, unless you have a very small antenna in >combination with a very 'deaf' receiver a pre-amp won't be of any use, it >will just crick-up the S-meter reading but will not improve readability of >a signal. > >I did some tests woith pre-amps and found out that most simple designs have >a too poor IM behaviour and make things worse instead of better. If I would >design one I would primarily aim at a high IM rejection and don't worry too >much about noise figure or gain. >If you want to use one of the monolithic amps from Mini-Circuits I would go >for something better than a MAR-6, that one has the worst IM behaviour of all. >To compare : > >type gain (dB) noise fig. (dB) 3rd order IP (dBm) >MAR-6 20 3 +15 >MAR-8 33 3 +27 >MAR-4 8 4 +26 >MAR-3 13 6 +23 >ERA-1 12 7 +26 >ERA-2 16 6 +27 >ERA-3 22 5 +23 > >Personnaly I wouldn't recommend the ERA-8 as it tends to be unstable in non >resistive loads, but I would go for a ERA-2. Mini-Circuits does not seem to publish noise figures for low frequencies (below 100 MHz). However, in general, it is not a good idea to use microwave transistors for very low frequencies, since the corner frequency for the 1/f noise can be quite high. In normal transistors, the corner frequency for 1/f noise is in the lower audio frequencies, but watch out for 1/f noise in VLF and LF frequencies when using microwave transistors. Paul OH3LWR From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11917 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 16:24:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 16:24:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 8545 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 16:24:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 16:24:46 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sS0Z-0000Pu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 17:19:15 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sS0V-0000Pp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 17:19:11 +0100 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.9.) id l.40.a9beb88 (4006) for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 12:17:56 -0400 (EDT) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <40.a9beb88.281852b3@aol.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 12:17:55 EDT Subject: LF: Re: LF Calibration and Loran lines To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 217 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Andy,

Markus (DF6NM) sent this explanation for the Loran lines which I observed in
the AM spectrum:

> The chains I could clearly observe here were
>
> GRI     Df      Chain  (Wolf's AM line)
> /10us  /Hz
> 5930  8.4317  Canadian East Coast
> 6731  7.4283  Lessay   
> 7001  7.1418  Bo  (140*Df = 999.8572 Hz)
> 7030  7.1124  Saudi Arabia S
> 7270  6.8776  Newfoundland East Coast
> 7499  6.6676  Sylt  (150*Df = 1000.1334 Hz)
> 8000  6.2500  Western Russia  (160*Df = 1000.000 Hz)
> 8830  5.6625  Saudi Arabia N
> 9007  5.5512  Eide

So the 1000.0000 Hz are really there, as "AF harmonic" from Western Russia.

I can only confirm this, because that line is not as strong as those from the
Lessay and Sylt chains.

73's Wolf DL4YHF. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14652 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 16:10:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 16:10:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 19152 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 16:10:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 16:10:04 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sRfl-0000HQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 16:57:45 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sRfi-0000HL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 16:57:42 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14sRfD-0004L0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 16:57:11 +0100 Message-ID: <8857.200104251557@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 16:57:27 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: LF Forum - Wolf X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Since somehow or another I seem to have gained the most experience of any UK amateur of successfully transmitting and receiving "Wolf" mode signals, I could put together a short talk about the practicalities of the mode for the LF Forum. I think any demonstration would have to be of the "off line" type due to the time and setting up involved. I don't claim to have in-depth knowledge of how Wolf works, or the encoding techniques used, so ideally someone else could provide some info on these areas. Would this be of interest? Please let me know. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7280 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 15:43:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 15:43:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 9404 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 15:43:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 15:43:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sRKX-00004x-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 16:35:49 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout00.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sRKT-00004s-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 16:35:45 +0100 Received: from fwd03.sul.t-online.com by mailout00.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14sRJy-00082F-05; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 17:35:14 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0607144537-0001@[217.3.92.41]) by fwd03.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14sRJx-24toOWC; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 17:35:13 +0200 From: "bernd grupe" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RX-Loops X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 17:35:13 +0200 Message-ID: <14sRJx-24toOWC@fwd03.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0607144537-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Alberto and all, when i was operating a loop as an rx-antenna there was a very close and effective interaction with the loadingcoil of the TX-marconi in a distance of more than 10 mtrs! This magnetic-coupled interaction causes strong signals and a pseudo-sensitivity of the loop. But when i disconnected the marconi, the rx-level dropped rapidly. So i would suggest to decouple both parts by positioning them in rectangular planes. Quite a very interesting discussion so far 73 Bernd, DF8ZR From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16417 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 15:21:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 15:21:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 18902 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 15:21:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 15:21:00 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sQxb-0008UO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 16:12:07 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sQxX-0008UJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 16:12:03 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id QAA26666; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 16:15:12 +0100 (BST) Received: (qmail 8625 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 16:05:54 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 16:05:54 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id QAA29390; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 16:02:32 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma029382; Wed, 25 Apr 01 16:02:31 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 16:18:35 +0100 Received: by frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 16:11:29 +0100 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C0464@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Calibration and Loran lines Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 16:11:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: An AM detector will recover the envelope of each of the chains passing through the receiver, and generate audio lines at harmonics of each of the four repetition frequencies. Here are the frequencies I have in a Loran interference prog written some time ago, perhaps someone can confirm these are fully valid. 150th harmonic of F1 at 6.667555674 is 1000.133351Hz 140th harmonic of F3 is 999.8571633 Hz There will be other intermodulation products as well, but I can't be bothered calculating them :-( Such as 70 * F3 + 75 * F1 = 999.9952572 (just one of an almost infinite number of products) Can't see where a line at exactly 1000 Hz comes from, but it may fall out of the IM product calculations eventually f1 = 100000 / 14998 '(74990us / 5) f2 = 100000 / 13462 '(67310us / 5) f3 = 100000 / 14002 '(70010us / 5) f4 = 100000 / 18014 '(90070us / 5) Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: 0482183881-0001@t-online.de [mailto:0482183881-0001@t-online.de] > Sent: 2001-04-25 14:41 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: Calibration and Loran lines > > > Alberto di Bene schrieb: > > A couple of months ago, someone, don't remember who, > > posted a message describing a method for frequency > > calibration that relied on receiving the Loran signals > > with the RX set to AM mode. > > > > Unfortunately I am unable to retrieve that message, > > probably I have inadvertently deleted it. > > Could please somebody send it to me again, TNX. > > > > 73 Alberto I2PHD > > > Hi Alberto, > de dj8wx/Uwe > I guess it has been Wolf. > His mail datet 20.03.01: > > I just thought about an audio frequency reference for all who > don't have an > accurate audio reference but a longwave receiver (like myself..) > In one of his recent postings Jim 'BMU explained why such a > reference is > required for the WOLF experiments. There MAY (!) be an easy > solution to this, > maybe the experts can help to verify the following. > > Here is what to do: > 1.) Tune the LF RX to 100.00 kHz and set the receiver to AM > (not SSB !) > You should hear Loran's sharp "clicketiclick" sound in > the receiver. > The "clicketiclick" is a mixture of a lot of many audio > frequencies, > and because we are using an AM RX the frequencies do NOT depend > on the accuracy of the VFO in the receiver (crude explanation...) > 2.) Record a spectrogram with ARGO, SpecLab or whatever you use. > Use a high resolution, at least 0.01 Hz (the attached > screenshot, > LORAN_AM.JPG, has 0.002 Hz resolution and took 6 minutes). > 3.) Look at the audio frequencies close to 1kHz. There are > lines visible at > 999.85 Hz > 999.96 Hz > 1000.00 Hz > 1000.13 Hz (the strongest in the range 999 - 1001 Hz) > Note: The spectrum has been recorded in the midwestern part > of DL (JO42FD), > and the amplitude of the spectra may be different in other > parts of Europe > but the lines should be detectable everywhere. > > I think this could be a way to verify the accuracy of ANY > audio recording > tool (for the last fractions of a Hertz), no matter if a > soundcard, DSP, > PIC-based converter or whatever is used. > > There has been a list of Loran frequencies on this reflector > a few months ago > (sh.., I didn't save it). Maybe one of the experts can > calculate the accurate > frequencies contained in an AM-received Loran signal on > 100kHz, or one of the > lucky fellows with a high-precision audio source can repeat > the experiment > described above to check the results. > > Thanks, > 73 from Wolf (DL4YHF). > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21537 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 15:01:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 15:01:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 20732 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 15:01:33 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 15:01:33 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sQfy-0008HS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 15:53:54 +0100 Received: from indyweb.cgocable.ca ([205.151.69.200]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sQfw-0008HM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 15:53:52 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from 220-147.lr.cgocable.ca (220-147.lr.cgocable.ca [24.226.220.147]) by indyweb.cgocable.ca (8.9.3 (MessagingDirect 1.0.4)/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA2760714 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 10:53:18 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <200104251453.KAA2760714@indyweb.cgocable.ca> X-Sender: bill1@cgocable.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 10:53:18 -0400 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Bill de Carle" Subject: LF: Re: WOLF with Sigma-Delta interface Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 01:50 PM 4/25/01 +0100, Andy, G4JNT wrote: >If Jim is coming, perhaps you would be able to give a demo of Wolf ? >I can demo standard BPSK with the VE2IQ software and interface. >Hopefully a version of WOLF for use with this will appear eventually. I don't know if people realize this, but there is an easy way to use either the VE2IQ S-D interface or Andy's PIC-based interface to create a file readable by WOLF. Just use the CRUNCH program without compression (i.e. a time compression factor of 1.0). It will create a .WAV file at 7200 samples per second. If you invoke CRUNCH with the "TIME" option, you can specify a time of day to start recording and how many minutes to record. Very nice if you want to record at some oddball time when you want to be asleep. Earlier versions of WOLF needed a .WAV file header which specified 8000 samples per second, but I just faked that by changing the indicated rate in the file header after recording. I understand later versions of WOLF should work directly with 7200 s/s .WAV files. You will, of course, have to specify the exact sampling rate (-r) when invoking the WOLF program itself. The SD board samples at 7200 samples per second. You can install a trimmer cap on the board (details are available somewhere, probably on my web page) to tweak it to exactly 7200.00 - or you can just measure the rate and tell WOLF what it is. If anyone out there ever bothered to set up a GPS 1PPS input to the serial port's Ring Indicator input pin (talked about here some months ago), I can e-mail you a program that measures the audio sampling rate to a whole lot of decimal places. Works with the SD board and with supported sound cards. 73 de Bill VE2IQ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18466 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 14:50:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 14:50:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 12661 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 14:49:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 14:49:52 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sQVu-0008GA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 15:43:30 +0100 Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sQVt-0008G5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 15:43:30 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.88.43]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 11:42:19 -0300 Message-ID: <3AE69C28.C5FF007@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 02:43:05 -0700 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: lf tests Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all G3AQC was again visible this am around 0300Z "M" copy 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12912 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 13:57:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 13:57:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 12422 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 13:57:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 13:57:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sPYP-0007qV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 14:42:01 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout00.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sPYH-0007qO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 14:41:53 +0100 Received: from fwd03.sul.t-online.com by mailout00.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14sPXl-0005hl-06; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 15:41:21 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.157.50.58]) by fwd03.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14sPXg-1SvPeKC; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 15:41:16 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3AE5F6C3.88A48ADF@usa.net> Subject: Re: LF: Calibration and Loran lines X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 15:41:16 +0200 Message-ID: <14sPXg-1SvPeKC@fwd03.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alberto di Bene schrieb: > A couple of months ago, someone, don't remember who, > posted a message describing a method for frequency > calibration that relied on receiving the Loran signals > with the RX set to AM mode. > > Unfortunately I am unable to retrieve that message, > probably I have inadvertently deleted it. > Could please somebody send it to me again, TNX. > > 73 Alberto I2PHD > Hi Alberto, de dj8wx/Uwe I guess it has been Wolf. His mail datet 20.03.01: I just thought about an audio frequency reference for all who don't have an accurate audio reference but a longwave receiver (like myself..) In one of his recent postings Jim 'BMU explained why such a reference is required for the WOLF experiments. There MAY (!) be an easy solution to this, maybe the experts can help to verify the following. Here is what to do: 1.) Tune the LF RX to 100.00 kHz and set the receiver to AM (not SSB !) You should hear Loran's sharp "clicketiclick" sound in the receiver. The "clicketiclick" is a mixture of a lot of many audio frequencies, and because we are using an AM RX the frequencies do NOT depend on the accuracy of the VFO in the receiver (crude explanation...) 2.) Record a spectrogram with ARGO, SpecLab or whatever you use. Use a high resolution, at least 0.01 Hz (the attached screenshot, LORAN_AM.JPG, has 0.002 Hz resolution and took 6 minutes). 3.) Look at the audio frequencies close to 1kHz. There are lines visible at 999.85 Hz 999.96 Hz 1000.00 Hz 1000.13 Hz (the strongest in the range 999 - 1001 Hz) Note: The spectrum has been recorded in the midwestern part of DL (JO42FD), and the amplitude of the spectra may be different in other parts of Europe but the lines should be detectable everywhere. I think this could be a way to verify the accuracy of ANY audio recording tool (for the last fractions of a Hertz), no matter if a soundcard, DSP, PIC-based converter or whatever is used. There has been a list of Loran frequencies on this reflector a few months ago (sh.., I didn't save it). Maybe one of the experts can calculate the accurate frequencies contained in an AM-received Loran signal on 100kHz, or one of the lucky fellows with a high-precision audio source can repeat the experiment described above to check the results. Thanks, 73 from Wolf (DL4YHF). From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11961 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 13:32:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 13:32:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 8430 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 13:32:16 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 13:32:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sPJP-0007j6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 14:26:31 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sPIz-0007j1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 14:26:12 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA930334 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 15:25:12 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010425142627.2caf11b6@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 14:26:27 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Pre-amps. In-reply-to: <95.9d9fc99.2817f74a@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi David, did you test the MAV11 on 136kHz ? Mini-Circuits gives a frequency range of 50-1000MHz (while the MAR, ERA, RAM series start at DC), so it may have a internal C that limits the lowest frequency. The datasheets gives a IP3 of +30dBm, so it you can get any gain out of it at 136kHz it should be OK. 73, Rik ON7YD >Dave, Graham and I used a MAR3 pre-amp in Guernsey and found it overloaded >with the large signal from Lessay. The MAV11 is rated at 60mW output and may >be a better choice if you can spare the current. > > >73 > >David. G0MRF > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2680 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 13:31:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 13:31:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 13550 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 13:31:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 13:31:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sPGH-0007e5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 14:23:17 +0100 Received: from mail4.dada.it ([195.110.96.56] helo=mail.dada.it) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sPFm-0007dv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 14:22:46 +0100 Received: (qmail 16428 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 13:21:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cestag) (195.110.102.2) by mail.dada.it with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 13:21:58 -0000 Message-ID: <001001c0cd8a$9c2ab780$02666ec3@cestag> From: "cesare tagliabue" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: R: Re: Loop preamps Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 15:21:16 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Alberto I'm using about the same arrangement, but with only one turn in the loop, as I've explained in my web page 73 Cesare Cesare Tagliabue I 5 TGC WW-Loc JN53PS e-mail: cestag@dada.it url: http://www.dadacasa.com/i5tgc -----Messaggio originale----- Da: Alberto di Bene A: LF Mailing List Data: mercoledì 25 aprile 2001 15.05 Oggetto: LF: Re: Loop preamps >Hi all, > >I am having quite good results with this sort of setup : >my loop is 8 turns, square, 2.2m each side, completely >isolated from ground and from the feeding coax. >The loop is connected only to the primary winding on a >high-mu ferrite toroid ( > 2000), only 3 turns. >The secondary winding is 15 turns, and is connected to the >coax. The inductance of the secondary is such that it resonates >at 137 kHz with 1900 pF. The coax itself provides about 1400 pF >of capacitance, and the remaining 500 are provided by a variable >capacitor, in the shack ! The shack end of the coax is connected >also to a fet-input preamp (J309), with high input Z. > >This setup has the advantages that the tuning is done in the shack, >and also the preamp is in the shack. Moreover, being the loop >itself electrically isolated from ground and from the feeding coax, >is mostly insensitive to the electric field component of locally >generated QRN and statics. > >Anybody else using such an arrangement ? > >73 Alberto I2PHD > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23634 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 12:58:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 12:58:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 1196 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 12:58:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 12:58:04 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sOkt-0007Pl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 13:50:51 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sOkp-0007Pg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 13:50:50 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id NAA31557; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 13:53:54 +0100 (BST) Received: (qmail 19585 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 13:44:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 13:44:37 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id NAA29959; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 13:41:15 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma029869; Wed, 25 Apr 01 13:40:54 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-3.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 13:56:58 +0100 Received: by frn-mail-3.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 13:49:40 +0100 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C0460@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: LF Forum Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 13:50:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: If Jim is coming, perhaps you would be able to give a demo of Wolf ? I can demo standard BPSK with the VE2IQ software and interface. Hopefully a version of WOLF for use with this will appear eventually. Will also have my direct from mains 700 Watt switch mode Tx based on the Decca design for demo. I have sent invites so far to RadCom for then May edition, and GB2RS (which hasn't appeared yet) so we may be getting some newcomers to the band from those notices. Andy G4JNT > Re a WOLF discussion, I would like to see much more of a 'how > to do it' > forum, rather than re-run the BPSK vs QRSS vs CW argument. > > I think a useful discussion topic would be how to encourage > more onto the > band - I am sure the microwavers present will be familiar > with that one. > > Also, what to do on 73kHz next winter. > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13852 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 12:57:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 12:57:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 6175 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 12:56:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 12:56:52 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sOi6-0007PD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 13:47:58 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06lmsgate-3.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sOhj-0007P8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 13:47:36 +0100 Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by d06lmsgate-3.uk.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id NAA178712 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 13:37:18 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (ss8.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.73]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.96) with ESMTP id NAA63110 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 13:46:07 +0100 Message-ID: <3AE6C6A2.C937F32F@usa.net> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 14:44:18 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Mailing List" Subject: LF: Re: Loop preamps Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, I am having quite good results with this sort of setup : my loop is 8 turns, square, 2.2m each side, completely isolated from ground and from the feeding coax. The loop is connected only to the primary winding on a high-mu ferrite toroid ( > 2000), only 3 turns. The secondary winding is 15 turns, and is connected to the coax. The inductance of the secondary is such that it resonates at 137 kHz with 1900 pF. The coax itself provides about 1400 pF of capacitance, and the remaining 500 are provided by a variable capacitor, in the shack ! The shack end of the coax is connected also to a fet-input preamp (J309), with high input Z. This setup has the advantages that the tuning is done in the shack, and also the preamp is in the shack. Moreover, being the loop itself electrically isolated from ground and from the feeding coax, is mostly insensitive to the electric field component of locally generated QRN and statics. Anybody else using such an arrangement ? 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25368 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 12:07:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 12:07:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 3379 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 12:07:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 12:07:23 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sNy9-00075u-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 13:00:29 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sNy6-00075p-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 13:00:26 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14sNxX-00063F-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 12:59:51 +0100 Message-ID: <16613.200104251159@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 13:00:03 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Re: Loop preamps X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Laurie, LF group, When I was working on tuned loops at University of Herts, due to various constraints we used packaged Mini-Circuits preamps with performance similar to the MAR types. We found that the noise performance was more than adequate, and limited by the thermal noise of the loop itself or external atmospheric noise, but as others have noted the IM performance was not great. The biggest problems we had were parasitic oscillations - even the relatively low-frequency MAR devices in the range have substantial gain into the microwave region - and without measures being taken, vigorous oscillation at about 1GHz would occur. This was quite difficult to detect if the receiver attached to the output did not go up to 1GHz, and didn't do a lot for the overall performance. As Andy says, the noise power (from preamp, loop or wherever) is proportional to the bandwidth, so reducing the bandwidth reduces the noise in proportion, which is the main benefit of QRSS. As far as improving the signal to noise ratio with a loop goes, Increasing the area of the loop and increasing the Q are the two possibilities - both these increase the signal power available to the preamp. The inductive reactance of untuned loops behaves as an attenuator in one way or another, so SNR is generally lower. With tuned loops of reasonable size at LF, it usually isn't hard to hear down to the external noise. A high Q loop acts as a preselector, which will help to reduce intermodulation, although it is less convenient in having to be re-tuned within the band. My own current RX antennas are single-turn loops with sides of about 2m or so. These connect to the shack by coax via a balun (which does not seem to make a great difference), where there is series inductance and parallel capacitance to tune the thing, and an OPA604 op-amp as a preamp. This is not a very efficient set-up from the noise point of view, but sensitivity is limited by atmospheric noise, and intermodulation does not seem to be an issue, in spite of being very close to MF broadcast transmitters. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25455 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 11:12:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 11:12:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 839 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 11:12:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 11:12:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sN3L-0006iz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 12:01:47 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sN3H-0006iu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 12:01:44 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 11:52:47 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 11:52:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Re: LF Forum Message-ID: <3AE6BA8D.2607.76F819@localhost> In-reply-to: <003201c0c4c7$16c63b80$099901d4@g4jnt> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > There has been so much discussion on Wolf and BPSK spectra on this reflector > recently that it seems a prime topic for the forthcoming LF Forum on 20 May at > Flight Refuelling HQ nr Wimborne. > Has anyone got any requests or ideas for subjects of talks or demonstrations ? > Is anyone prepared to offer a talk or chair a discussion ? I hope to be able to get to Wimborne, and would be prepared to chair a discussion if anyone wants. Re a WOLF discussion, I would like to see much more of a 'how to do it' forum, rather than re-run the BPSK vs QRSS vs CW argument. I think a useful discussion topic would be how to encourage more onto the band - I am sure the microwavers present will be familiar with that one. Also, what to do on 73kHz next winter. 73 Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11637 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 09:55:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 09:55:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 18921 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 09:55:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 09:55:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sLuv-0006CL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 10:49:01 +0100 Received: from imo-r13.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.67]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sLuu-0006CG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 10:49:00 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-r13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.9.) id l.95.9d9fc99 (4155) for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 05:47:54 -0400 (EDT) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <95.9d9fc99.2817f74a@aol.com> Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 05:47:54 EDT Subject: Re: LF: Pre-amps. To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 4/25/01 9:47:36 AM GMT Daylight Time, rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be writes: << I did some tests woith pre-amps and found out that most simple designs have a too poor IM behaviour and make things worse instead of better. If I would design one I would primarily aim at a high IM rejection and don't worry too much about noise figure or gain. If you want to use one of the monolithic amps from Mini-Circuits I would go for something better than a MAR-6, that one has the worst IM behaviour of all. To compare : >> I have MAV11SM (65mA) and MAR3SM (35mA) devices here if you need them. SM = surface mount. Dave, Graham and I used a MAR3 pre-amp in Guernsey and found it overloaded with the large signal from Lessay. The MAV11 is rated at 60mW output and may be a better choice if you can spare the current. 73 David. G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10018 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 09:36:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 09:36:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 8523 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 09:36:41 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 09:36:41 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sLdD-000664-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 10:30:43 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sLd9-00065z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 10:30:39 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA851036 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 11:30:08 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010425103123.3097901e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 10:31:23 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Pre-amps. In-reply-to: <3.0.1.16.20010425094349.309747e8@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <001501c0cce5$fde69ca0$4527893e@g3aqc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I forgot to list Mini-Circuits's new monolithic amps, these have even better IM behaviour : type gain (dB) noise fig. (dB) 3rd order IP (dBm) GAL-4 14 4 +34 GAL-5 21 4 +35 GAL-51 18 4 +35 GAL-6 12 5 +36 73, Rik ON7YD At 09:43 25/04/01, you wrote: >Hello Laurie, > >In most circumstances SNR will be determined by the 'band noise' (QRM - >QRN), so the noise figure of a pre-amp won't matter too much (anything >below 10dB should be fine). But, unless you have a very small antenna in >combination with a very 'deaf' receiver a pre-amp won't be of any use, it >will just crick-up the S-meter reading but will not improve readability of >a signal. > >I did some tests woith pre-amps and found out that most simple designs have >a too poor IM behaviour and make things worse instead of better. If I would >design one I would primarily aim at a high IM rejection and don't worry too >much about noise figure or gain. >If you want to use one of the monolithic amps from Mini-Circuits I would go >for something better than a MAR-6, that one has the worst IM behaviour of all. >To compare : > >type gain (dB) noise fig. (dB) 3rd order IP (dBm) >MAR-6 20 3 +15 >MAR-8 33 3 +27 >MAR-4 8 4 +26 >MAR-3 13 6 +23 >ERA-1 12 7 +26 >ERA-2 16 6 +27 >ERA-3 22 5 +23 > >Personnaly I wouldn't recommend the ERA-8 as it tends to be unstable in non >resistive loads, but I would go for a ERA-2. >Price of all these amps is very similar (MC suggested resale price at 30 >QTY is between 1 and 2 USD for all of them) and mainly depends on what your >local supplier stocks (and how greedy he is .... ..). > >An old wisdom, but still valid : the best RX amplifier is a good antenna >(0dB noise figure and almost endless IP3). > >73, Rik ON7YD > >At 18:41 24/04/01 +0100, you wrote: >>Hi All, >>I have been thinking about weak signals on 136 using QRS and DFCW. These >techniques enable signals to be read which are buried 30db down in the >noise(see Extreme narrow bandwidth techniques ON7YD ) Does this mean that >signals 30db down on atmospheric noise are seen,if so what about the noise >from the RX pre-amp ? In my case this is about 20/30 db less than the Ant. >noise,so would I be looking at the pre-amp noise or is this also reduced by >the narrow bandwidth ? >>I should like to improve the noise performance of my pre-amp. >>filter combination. and would appreciate any information on high >performance circuits or amp. units. Is the MAR6 likely to be worth while. >>By the way if my thoughts are correct this may be why high Q loops are >reported to be superior to lower Q types, higher signal output overriding >amp. noise. Any ideas ? 73s Laurie. >> >>Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\ATTACH\LFPre-am.htm" >> > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13819 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 08:49:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 08:49:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 18114 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 08:49:35 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 08:49:35 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sKtB-0005mK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 09:43:09 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sKt7-0005mF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 09:43:05 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA619332 for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 10:42:34 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010425094349.309747e8@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 09:43:49 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Pre-amps. In-reply-to: <001501c0cce5$fde69ca0$4527893e@g3aqc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Laurie, In most circumstances SNR will be determined by the 'band noise' (QRM - QRN), so the noise figure of a pre-amp won't matter too much (anything below 10dB should be fine). But, unless you have a very small antenna in combination with a very 'deaf' receiver a pre-amp won't be of any use, it will just crick-up the S-meter reading but will not improve readability of a signal. I did some tests woith pre-amps and found out that most simple designs have a too poor IM behaviour and make things worse instead of better. If I would design one I would primarily aim at a high IM rejection and don't worry too much about noise figure or gain. If you want to use one of the monolithic amps from Mini-Circuits I would go for something better than a MAR-6, that one has the worst IM behaviour of all. To compare : type gain (dB) noise fig. (dB) 3rd order IP (dBm) MAR-6 20 3 +15 MAR-8 33 3 +27 MAR-4 8 4 +26 MAR-3 13 6 +23 ERA-1 12 7 +26 ERA-2 16 6 +27 ERA-3 22 5 +23 Personnaly I wouldn't recommend the ERA-8 as it tends to be unstable in non resistive loads, but I would go for a ERA-2. Price of all these amps is very similar (MC suggested resale price at 30 QTY is between 1 and 2 USD for all of them) and mainly depends on what your local supplier stocks (and how greedy he is .... ..). An old wisdom, but still valid : the best RX amplifier is a good antenna (0dB noise figure and almost endless IP3). 73, Rik ON7YD At 18:41 24/04/01 +0100, you wrote: >Hi All, >I have been thinking about weak signals on 136 using QRS and DFCW. These techniques enable signals to be read which are buried 30db down in the noise(see Extreme narrow bandwidth techniques ON7YD ) Does this mean that signals 30db down on atmospheric noise are seen,if so what about the noise from the RX pre-amp ? In my case this is about 20/30 db less than the Ant. noise,so would I be looking at the pre-amp noise or is this also reduced by the narrow bandwidth ? >I should like to improve the noise performance of my pre-amp. >filter combination. and would appreciate any information on high performance circuits or amp. units. Is the MAR6 likely to be worth while. >By the way if my thoughts are correct this may be why high Q loops are reported to be superior to lower Q types, higher signal output overriding amp. noise. Any ideas ? 73s Laurie. > >Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\ATTACH\LFPre-am.htm" > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 132 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 07:49:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 07:49:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 5986 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 07:49:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 07:49:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sJvp-0005Om-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 08:41:49 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sJvL-0005Oh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 08:41:19 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id IAA02959; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 08:44:00 +0100 (BST) Received: (qmail 1532 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2001 08:34:43 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 25 Apr 2001 08:34:43 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id IAA21402; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 08:31:22 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma021375; Wed, 25 Apr 01 08:30:55 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 08:46:56 +0100 Received: by frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Wed, 25 Apr 2001 08:39:51 +0100 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C045A@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Pre-amps. Date: Wed, 25 Apr 2001 08:39:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
All noise is reduced in proportion to the bandwidth, both external and equipment (thermal) noise.   The power of thermal noise is given by kTB, where k is Boltzmans constant, 1.38E-23, and B in degrees K.   Gives in -174dBm per Hz.
 
For all but very tiny, lossy, antennas, atmospheric noise usually dominates so a fantastically low noise figure is not essential.  A tuned loop gives an output vastly greater than thermal noise, but when untuned and if it is particularly lossy as well, then the levels may be comparable.  The MAR6 has a noise figure better than 4dB at frequencies up to 1GHz so gives a good account of itself at LF, but this level of performance is unnecesasry at LF if using a tuned loop.
 
Andy  G4JNT
 
 
 -----Original Message-----
From: Laurie Mayhead [mailto:laurie@g3aqc.freeserve.co.uk]
Sent: 2001-04-24 18:42
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Pre-amps.

Hi All,
I have been thinking about weak signals on 136 using QRS and DFCW. These techniques enable signals to be read which are buried 30db down in the noise(see Extreme narrow bandwidth techniques ON7YD ) Does this mean that signals 30db down on atmospheric noise are seen,if so what about the noise from the RX pre-amp ? In my case this is about 20/30 db less than the Ant. noise,so would I be looking at the pre-amp noise or is this also reduced by the narrow bandwidth ?
I should like to improve the noise performance of my pre-amp.
filter combination. and would appreciate any information on high performance circuits or amp. units. Is the MAR6 likely to be worth while. 
By the way if my thoughts are correct this may be why high Q loops are reported to be superior to lower Q types, higher signal output overriding amp. noise. Any ideas ?      73s  Laurie.  


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 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5332 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2001 22:08:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 24 Apr 2001 22:08:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 20095 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2001 22:07:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 24 Apr 2001 22:07:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sAr5-0001n4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 23:00:19 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06lmsgate-2.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14sAr1-0001mc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 23:00:15 +0100 Received: from d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.147]) by d06lmsgate-2.uk.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id WAA103910 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 22:43:45 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (ss7.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.72]) by d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.96) with ESMTP id WAA252482 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 22:59:10 +0100 Message-ID: <3AE5F6C3.88A48ADF@usa.net> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 23:57:23 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Mailing List" Subject: LF: Calibration and Loran lines Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: A couple of months ago, someone, don't remember who, posted a message describing a method for frequency calibration that relied on receiving the Loran signals with the RX set to AM mode. Unfortunately I am unable to retrieve that message, probably I have inadvertently deleted it. Could please somebody send it to me again, TNX. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11726 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2001 18:48:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Apr 2001 18:48:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 27788 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2001 18:48:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 24 Apr 2001 18:48:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14s7mV-0000aS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 19:43:23 +0100 Received: from cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.174]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14s7mR-0000aN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 19:43:19 +0100 Received: from modem-69.lyre-tailed-anthias.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.39.69] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14s7ly-0005pT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 19:42:50 +0100 Message-ID: <001501c0cce5$fde69ca0$4527893e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Pre-amps. Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 18:41:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi All,
I have been thinking about weak signals on 136 using QRS and DFCW. These techniques enable signals to be read which are buried 30db down in the noise(see Extreme narrow bandwidth techniques ON7YD ) Does this mean that signals 30db down on atmospheric noise are seen,if so what about the noise from the RX pre-amp ? In my case this is about 20/30 db less than the Ant. noise,so would I be looking at the pre-amp noise or is this also reduced by the narrow bandwidth ?
I should like to improve the noise performance of my pre-amp.
filter combination. and would appreciate any information on high performance circuits or amp. units. Is the MAR6 likely to be worth while. 
By the way if my thoughts are correct this may be why high Q loops are reported to be superior to lower Q types, higher signal output overriding amp. noise. Any ideas ?      73s  Laurie.  
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5299 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2001 17:57:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Apr 2001 17:57:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 2012 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2001 17:57:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 24 Apr 2001 17:57:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14s6rT-0000Cs-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 18:44:27 +0100 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14s6rQ-0000Cn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 18:44:24 +0100 Received: from [213.1.94.44] (helo=default) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14s6qx-0006TA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 18:43:55 +0100 Message-ID: <000301c0cce5$c4a504e0$2c5e01d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: re Propagation monitoring and LORAN Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 16:02:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Andy, that looks an extremely interesting project that Peter has been doing. I am particularly interested in the changes in delay over the the North Atlantic path after dark. This should give us some indication of the active layer heights number of hops etc. It would help to explain some of the effects we see after geomagnetic disturbances. The only worry is that Peter does not sound too enthusiastic about taking the algorithms to a soundcard implimentation. Please encourage him.....I don't have a 56000 evaluation card! The receiver I use is capable of working in a 9.5kHz bandwidth if necessary on any mode. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14372 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2001 15:52:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 24 Apr 2001 15:52:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 26764 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2001 15:42:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 24 Apr 2001 15:42:15 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14s4lX-0007rf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 16:30:11 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14s4lS-0007ra-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 16:30:07 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id QAA06924; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 16:33:13 +0100 (BST) Received: (qmail 4240 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2001 16:24:00 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 24 Apr 2001 16:24:00 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id QAA08412; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 16:20:42 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma008203; Tue, 24 Apr 01 16:19:57 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-3.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 16:35:52 +0100 Received: by frn-mail-3.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 16:28:47 +0100 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C0457@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: WOLF test results, soundcard trouble Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 16:28:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: An alternative to the SD interface is my PIC based one, which is directly compatible and uses just two ICs one of them an op-amp. Andy G4JNT > > Rik's idea of bypassing the card is another good solution. > One alternative that already exists is the VE2IQ interface. See > http://cafe.rapidus.net/bill1/bbs.htm and download SDPCX.ZIP . > This is a home brew Sigma-Delta A/D which drives a serial port. > Many PSK and CCW programs can use it, and it has also been > used with WOLF. > You can buy kits from Bill for US$54, or build your own from scratch. > Sample rate is a precise 7200 Hz. Resolution is only 8 bits, > but IMO that is plenty, unless the audio signal is dominated > by a strong interfering carrier. If most of the audio power is > random noise and/or static crashes, then even 1 bit is pretty good! > Steve VK2ZTO has shown impressive results sampling this way. > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5125 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2001 13:17:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Apr 2001 13:17:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 19497 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2001 13:17:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 24 Apr 2001 13:17:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14s2X2-0006vX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 14:07:04 +0100 Received: from cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.174]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14s2Wz-0006vR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 14:07:01 +0100 Received: from modem-29.elostirion.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.186.29] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14s2WU-0001XC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 14:06:30 +0100 Message-ID: <007c01c0ccb7$017b1960$1dba883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. LF tests Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 12:58:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Many thanks John for the report,glad to know that the signal is getting through. Slightly lower power now that the trees are coming into leaf but probably not significant compared to the Ionospheric effects.I am sure that this is a useful exercise, so will continue for the next few nights. 73s Laurie. 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18020 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2001 10:32:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 24 Apr 2001 10:32:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 14173 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2001 10:32:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 24 Apr 2001 10:32:12 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14rzwf-0005rm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:21:21 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14rzwa-0005rh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:21:16 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id LAA12535; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:24:23 +0100 (BST) Received: (qmail 18834 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2001 11:15:10 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 24 Apr 2001 11:15:10 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id LAA29763; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:11:54 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma029686; Tue, 24 Apr 01 11:11:19 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:27:13 +0100 Received: by frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:20:10 +0100 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C0454@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: "LF Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: Propagation monitoring and LORAN Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 11:20:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: May recall a discussion about using Loran for propagation monitoringon this reflector a couple of months ago which I then forwarded to G3PLX. He seems to have started looking at this method of propagation monitoring in some detail now. See attached. Andy G4JNT ---------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Peter Martinez [mailto:Peter.Martinez@btinternet.com] Sent: 2001-04-14 10:27 To: Talbot Andrew Subject: Re: FW: Comports and Delphi Andy: Just thought I would give you an interim report on the LORAN project. I have a working system now, after quite a bit of work and some useful help from Stewart Nelson. At the moment the program runs on my 56001 card with the PC software under DOS but the next step is to move it over to the soundcard and Windows. The present system uses a conventional SSB receiver tuned 1.7 kHz off 100 kHz so that the LORAN signal appears at 1700Hz in the audio band. Only the signal 1 kHz either side of 100kHz is processed, so the resolution and the sensititivity are limited. The program contains a database of LORAN stations worldwide, and needs to know the user's latitude and longitude within 1 degree and the date/time to an accuracy of a few seconds. With this information, the program looks for the nearest LORAN chain, which in my case is the Lessay chain, and identifies the master station, locking it's own oscillator frequency to that of the signal and synchronising it's clock to the repetition rate. By using the signal from the second-most-local chain (in my case the Sylt chain), the program can resolve any ambiguity in the timing. Without this the program would need to know the precise time to within +/- one repetition cycle of 67mS, which is not easy. Using two chains, the system can lock even if the PC clock is several tens of secs out. It would be possible to use some other external time reference, such as MSF, DCF77, or WWV, to resolve the ambiguity if only one LORAN chain was audible locally. I haven't done this yet. The most interesting part of the research needed to write the time-synchronisation code was the part where I had to calculate the precise number of cycles of the 100kHz LORAN carrier frequency that had occurred between midnight on 31st December 1957 and the time I start the program! This has to take account of leap years and leap seconds during this time, and is needed in order to set all the repetition-cycle counters to the correct values, since they were all notionally "zeroed" on this date and will never be in step again for the foreseeable future. Having locked in frequency and time to the local chain, there is no further sensitivity to drift of the local oscillators, and the program can then be used to look for the signals from any other known LORAN chain right down into the noise. At the moment I have made it coherently integrate up to about half an hour and retains the last 30 minutes of history thereafter. I haven't found this to be too long: if the skywave signals were too unstable, I would have seen the signal level rise to a peak soon after zeroing the integrator then fall back down into the noise. There is no sign of this effect even on the more distant signals. In any case, I would expect only local skywave signals to exhibit large variations, with the more distant ones being less disturbed in phase by sunrise/sunset effects. Because the program knows it's own location and synchronises to absolute time via the local LORAN signal, and all the other LORAN transmitters are also synchronised in time, it should be possible to predict precisely the arrival time of each signal. Each pulse seen on the screen should be identifiable from the database. However, I have seen three chains which are not well aligned to absolute time (West Russia, Saudi Arabia North, and Saudi Arabia South). The time-offsets of these chains, if they are stable, could be included in the database but at the moment, looking at these signals means they are off to one side of the display or the other by a few tens of mS. Incidently, a by-product of locking to LORAN in this way is that the system provides an accurate time-signal, limited only by the uncertainty in the delay through the IF filter of the LORAN receiver. I am seeing East Coast USA/Canada LORAN signals, notably Fox Harbor (18dB SNR) and Cape Race in Newfoundland, with Comfort Cove, Caribou, and Nantucket also occassionaly visible at night. In the other direction, the Saudi Arabian chains and Russian signals up to 40E are visible. Porting the program to the soundcard would make it more readily available to others, but I may not be able to do a good job of this myself because my PC is not fast enough. It would help if another programmer with Win 9X and a decent Pentium were to pick up this project rather than me. Using a narrowband SSB receiver is not an ideal way to monitor LORAN but there is the interesting possibility of building a simple direct-conversion receiver, perhaps with quadrature mixers. This, with a fast PC, would be capable of demodulating the full +/- 10kHz LORAN spectrum. Contrary to conventional weak-signal experience, the sensitivity will be rather better with a wider bandwidth and the time resolution will also be much improved, to the extent that separate pulses for surface waves and skywaves should be visible on many signals. I propose to experiment with this approach myself in order to verify that this idea will work. I am not sure, for example, whether the lack of a DC path through the soundcard will be a problem. I also propose to lock the oscillator in the direct-conversion receiver back to a tone output from the soundcard itself. This in turn makes it possible to reference the software timing to the received 100kHz RF phase rather than just to the received pulse envelope. This eliminates a further source of drift/error and opens up interesting possibilities for studying received signal phase and for truly coherent transmission and reception of other signals using LORAN as a common reference for time and frequency. Pass this on to the LF group if you think they might be interested. 73 Peter -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11551 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2001 09:41:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 24 Apr 2001 09:41:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 20084 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2001 09:41:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 24 Apr 2001 09:41:30 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14rzDi-0005Yq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 10:34:54 +0100 Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14rzDe-0005Yk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 10:34:50 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.52.33]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 06:33:34 -0300 Message-ID: <3AE5818C.B9FB40CD@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 09:37:16 -0400 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: lf tests Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3AQC again visible T/M copy 0020Z At 0110 he was gone. Very rapid QSB from one dash to the next . Laurie was also visible sunday night/ monday morning, but QSB was worse and I couldn't get picture. Will send picture from this AM to Dave 73 all de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10778 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2001 09:18:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 24 Apr 2001 09:18:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 25506 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2001 09:17:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 24 Apr 2001 09:17:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14rypb-0005SC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 10:09:59 +0100 Received: from fm215.facility.pipex.com ([194.131.104.225]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14rypV-0005QC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 10:09:53 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (182.235.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.235.182]) by fm215.facility.pipex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA11217 for ; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 10:02:48 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010424095630.009eae10@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Tue, 24 Apr 2001 10:09:44 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: Puckeridge MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------050206030206090101050706" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050206030206090101050706 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I wrote up last years' Puckeridge tests for Radcom thinking it would be published shortly afterwards but for some reason it never was. It has now re-surfaced and is proposed for publication in the July issue. Obviously much of the reportage on DX records is out-of-date but apart from that I thought those who took part would like to have a look and let me know if anything should be changed, since I quote several people verbatim. Text-only file is attached - please let me have any comments ASAP. Walter G3JKV. --------------050206030206090101050706 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; name="ATT08188.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="ATT08188.txt" THIS IS THE STORY of how one particular mast in the 21-station UK Decca Navigator chain was used to test some theories relating to LF propagation in the 73 and 136kHz amateur bands. When the mast at Puckeridge, Hertfordshire, had ceased its primary function in March 2000 its owners, Racal, allowed a team of radio amateurs access to the site and mast for three weeks. The article was written shortly after the event and, although the LF technology and expertise have advanced somewhat since then, the story is no less intriguing. The Puckeridge Experiment By Walter Blanchard, FRIN, G3JKV * THE HISTORY THE DECCA NAVIGATOR was a system for providing a ship or aircraft with its position by measuring the difference in time of arrival of radio transmissions from several transmitters simultaneously, using their phases. It took its name from the Decca Record Company, famous for its "ffrr" (Full Frequency Range Recording) LP records of the 40s and 50s, and still perpetuated in re-releases of its landmark recordings. Transmissions were in the low-frequency band between 70 and 127kHz and could be heard on AM as a series of periodically interrupted melodic tones centred around 71, 85, 112 and 127kHz - no doubt many amateurs heard it while they were tuning around. At its peak in the 60s and 70s it was used by more than 35,000 ships and 10,000 aircraft but, like many other radio-navigational systems, it was overtaken by satellite technology in the form ofthe American Global Positioning System (GPS). Latterly, it was operated by the Racal company (who bought Decca in 1981) on behalf of the Department of Transport and, in the face of an almost complete turnover by navigators to GPS, it was decided to close it down. The closure of the British transmitters occurred at midnight on 31 March 2000, followed shortly by the shutdown of the Irish transmitters. Since all other European transmitters had already closed, that left only the Japanese still running Decca chains, but even these were due to close at the end of 2000. THE CHAIN DECCA HAD 21 transmitting sites in the UK using an assortment of antennas. The original Decca chain covered the English east and south coasts. The 'English' Chain was built in 1946 and, as often happens with the first of anything, no expense was spared to ensure it worked properly. It used self-supporting vertical masts 325ft (lOOm) high with an extensive ground plane of copper radials also lOOm long fanning out every 10 degs around it. It had an efficiency of around 10% atthe lowest frequency (71kHz) and a transmitter output of 1.2kW radiated 120W, easily enough,it was thought, to cover the whole of the UK with just one chain. Unfortunately, it was found that the skywave destroyed accurate phasing at much shorter ranges than had been anticipated, and the only answer was to use more chains with restricted range. So, from 1 April 2000, there were 21 excellent LF masts and sites throughoutthe UK doing nothing for a short period until they were either demolished or turned to other uses. ENTER THE ENTHUSIASTS AMATEURS ON THE 73kHz and 136kHz bands have always been handicapped by their inability to erect aerials of a decent size - at 73kHz a half-wave is over 2km long - so aerial efficiencies were very low and, even for the permitted 1W ERP, needed kilowatt amplifiers. In spite of this, considerable distances were worked on both bands; at the time of writing, the record stood at 2200km, OH1TN to IK10DO. But the matter of big versus small aerials became a subject of hot debate within the LF Group and many opinions were aired on whether they were worthwhile. Did a big antenna have a different radiation pattern from a small one? Should it be very high vertically, or would itbe much the same if it were very long horizontally? It seemed to be rather a sterile debate until it became known that the Decca antennas might be available for a few weeks and thoughts turned to seeing whether one could be used for a comparison test. At one time it seemed a forlorn hope because of legal and insurance problems but, eventually, these were overcome with the result that Racal granted temporary permission to use the 325ft antenna at Puckeridge, Hertfordshire, for a time slot of only three weeks! This slot being only two weeks away, the next hurdle was to find out whether authorisation could be obtained to radiate a power higher than just 1W. Thanks to considerable assistance from the RSGB, this was cleared in the record time of only one week, permission being obtained for the CrawleyARC station, G3WSC, operating at Puckeridge, to radiate up to 100W on both 73 and 136kHz. RESTRICTIONS RACAL required that use of its site was to be handled through the author only and, to help with this, I had the invaluable assistance of Derek, G3GRO, Peter, G3LDO, and Lech, G3KAU, all well-known on the LF bands. A request on the LF Reflector brought in a number of other amateurs who were interested in transmitting from this mast and a suitable roster was devised. G3GRO and G3KAU wanted to get going as soon as possible and so made a reconnoitring trip up to Puckeridge. No Racal/Decca equipment could be used and everything needed had to be brought on site. Puckeridge was a manned station (the others were remotely-controlled) and the team had considerable assistance from the resident engineer, Dick Caddy. Directly under the mast there was a coil-house that had once housed the Decca antenna tuning unit coils (see the photo). This was big enough to hold the amateur transmitters, receivers and other gear. Fortunately, it had mains power laid on and even had heaters, very welcome in the cold evenings of early April. The electrical characteristics ofthe antenna wereobtained from Racal (375OpF in series with 5Q and 12uH) enabling the re-design of Derek's ATU once he was back home so that, when he returned, he could just plug it in and go. COMMENTS Derek, G3GRO, reported on the first weekend (14-16 April2000): "Apart from the Decca mast and an RF thermocouple ammeter, none of the original equipment, such as loading coils etc, was used. For 136kHz operation, a relatively small variometer (about 500uH maximum) and a tapped toroidal autotransformer were connected to ground from the copper pipe lead-in to the base of the mast, which itself is supported on four massive ceramic insulators. The exploratory visit earlier in the week(11 April) allowed a purpose-built additional loading coil for 73kHz to be built by Lech, G3KAU, back at base, in time for the main exercise at the weekend. On 136kHz we did not need any additional loading coil: in fact to start with, we had to insert in series with the antenna one of the very large 500pF 25kV capacitors we found lying outside the hut. Later on during the weekend we discovered that, by moving the input/output taps down the auto transformer to reduce the base inductance but keeping the same ratio, we avoided the need forthe series capacitor in the antenna lead. Three transmitters were employed at various times; the G3GRO 300W muchmodified BKE linear amplifier was used for the 1W ERP tests on 73/136kHz earlier in the week, and then again on Friday and Saturday, for running between 1 and 5W ERP. Additionally, we used the well-tried GOMRF 500W set-up and the G3YXM 1kW class-D rig used previously on many /P expeditions. The BKE linear was driven from an FT-990 transceiver via a 100:1 digital divider and BPF from either 136kHz or 7.3MHz. During the overnight sessions on Friday in beacon mode, the ERP was 50W and 100W ERP overnight on Saturday. We had a few problems to start with in getting the variometerto handle the 500W RF, and we had a few cracks and sparks resulting in VSWR trips, before we realised that the capacitive voltage divider in the forward/reflected power meter in the variometerwas arcing over. Thiswasthen by-passed. Fortunately,we had another SWR meter in line. We also found that an RF sampler unit brought along by Jim, MOBMU, was very useful in setting up the matching and tuning in conjunction with an oscilloscope. We realised on Saturday that the range of our RF ammeter was too small for high-power operation and rescued the original very large 30A RF ammeter from the pile of redundant scrap units outside in the rain and pressed it into service. During the beacon sessions it was reading 14A into the base of the mastwhich looks like 5Q resistive (mainly duetothe earth) in series with 375OpF. That represented an RF power of 1 kW into the antenna - about 100W ERP, allowing for an overall antenna efficiency of 10% on 136kHz. One modification we made between the early session and later was to change to keying the emitter of the buffer amplifier following the divide-by-100 stage with added keying shaping to minimise key clicks which had been reported. That seemed to clear the problem completely, although we found out later it was also present on at least one of the class-D transmitters used for the higher-power and night-time beacon sessions. The receive system was a home-brew up-converter with an input bandpass filter about 3kHz wide on both 73 and 136kHz, followed by a Mini-Circuits MAR6 preamp and MC 1496 mixer IC to a 10MHz IF feeding FT-990 and IC-756 transceivers for most of the time. The FT990 and converter stood up remarkably well to the very large antenna input with no sign of cross-modulation. We had a switched attenuator at the input to the converter but, for most of the time, it was switched out. We had two operator positions side by side, one handling the 136 and 73kHz traffic with the second op also monitoring 136/73kHz in parallel, but also handling the HF crossband input mainly from 7MHz. I think one of the nice things about the operation was that, with such a big signal, we could easily be heard by stations with a very simple antenna not specifically tuned to LF and give quite a few crossband stations their first QSO with an LF station. I think the other memory was of having to make several journeys humping all the gear a couple of hundred metres through the pouring rain and climb over a low fence with the gear and through all the grazing sheep in the compound." G3XDV had a few memories too: "The continuous rain that soaked through my coat and made it weigh a ton, then went on to soak the rest of my clothes. I remember thinking that I had spent my school days avoiding sporting activities involving getting cold and wet, but this was by no means the first radio expedition that had resulted in just that. I also had an agonising hip problem that started to get better from that day on - must be the healing powers of low-frequency RF (RF gets a bad press these days!). On the arrival of reinforcements, YXM, XTZ, MRF, BMU and myself wentto the local pub for a warm-up and refreshments only to be told that there was a wedding reception on and there was no food. They eventually took pity on us dripping into our crisps and offered 'something and chips', which went down very well. Also, at one point, it occurred to us that there wasn't much point in going on the 73kHz band, because 90% of the active licensees were in the same room at Puckeridge...." G3GRO summarised the results of the first weekend: "There were about 65 QSOs in total, including those during the initial setting up period on Tuesday 11 April. Two-way contacts were made on both bands and crossband contacts froml36kHz to 73kHz and to 7MHz. There has not been a reception report from across the pond from VE or W (which was always going to be a long shot), but the longest contact was crossband to 7MHz with Alex, UB5WF, in KN58JQ - about 200km north of Odessa on the Black Sea - who gave us RST429 with normal CW at a distance of 2225km. This was over a daylight path at 1232 UTC on Sunday 16th. It is not known yet what receiving antenna Alex had for 136kHz, but it is highly unlikely that it was a dedicated LF antenna since there is as yet no LF activity in Russia as far as is known. Other long distance QSOs were to Valerio, IK5ZPV, 2-way on 136kHz, who gave us RST589; IK7HSS, crossband to 7MHz, and Neils, OZ8NJ, (2-way on 136kHz) who relayed to us that IK5ZPV was hearing us and would call us shortly. We also got an RST 599 on 136kHz from SM6PXJ, OZ5N and HB2ASB. Two QSOs were also made on both 136kHz and 73kHz to Finbar, EIOCF, and Ray, GI3PDN. Reports on 73kHz were abouttwo S-points down with Ray and Finbar by comparison with 136kHz. We also worked GJ4CBQ and GU3SQX crossband 136kHz/7MHz, which was pleasing since, due to Loran QRM from Lessay, they normally have difficulty in hearing stations on 136kHz. Perhaps one of the most unusual QSOs was with Graham, G3XTZ/M, operating mobile on 136kHz CW whilst driving to the site to have a spell of operating! We also had a report via e-mail from Marc, F5MAF, in Toulouse, JNO3PP, who was hearing us at 599+ on a 2m diameter loop at a distance of 900km, and bemoaning the fact that there is no LF activity in his neck of the woods. Later, e-mail reports on the 71.8kHz signals were received from Walter, DJ2LF (569 in JN59NO),and Geri, DK8KW (579 in JO52BH - 697km). Thanks to all those who took part despite the very wet and freezing cold weather and also to those who took the trouble to give us reports which have yet to be analysed. At one point on Saturday, as the shifts changed over, there were 12 people in the ATU shack at the base of the mast which represented a large slice of the active UK LF operators! They were: G3KAU, G3XDV, MOBMU, GOMRF, G3XYM, G3XTZ, G3YSX, G4GVC, Kate, G4JAI (G4GVC's XYL), G4TSH, G3LHZ, G3GRO, and not forgetting Peter, G3LDO, holding the fort back home, and Walter, G3JKV. whose efforts made it all possible." IN RETROSPECT THE REPORT of reception by UB5WF at 2225km, in daylight and over a predominantly land path, was especially interesting. This is about two-thirds of the way to Canada; Newfoundland is 3520km from Puckeridge and has a predominantly sea path, so the signal would only have had to travel another 1300km to make it all the way to Canada. Unfortunately, at these ranges the 136kHz ground-wave signal is falling off very rapidly and, according to the CCIR propagation curves, another 35dB would be needed, even over sea water. Just possibly, it could be done at a very low-noise site using one of the FFT programs for reception. Larry, VA3LK, is already taking steps to set up an LF station for this purpose, although it is not known whether Puckeridge will be available in winter, when skywave might help. Overnight on 15 April 2000, G3WSC was left on-air running continuously as a beacon with an estimated radiated power of 100W. This generated a number of listener reports and, according to Vaiski, OH2LX, who has some very accurate measuring receivers, the signal strength was not far below those of some ofthe commercial stations near the band. SMALL(ER) ANTENNAS APART FROM this DX work, as already mentioned, a long-standing discussion within the LF group has been about the differences between large and small antennas. Given the same radiated power, is there any difference in signal strength between them? After all, both are very small in terms of one wavelength. To try to resolve this Jim, MOMBU, decided to setup a 'small' antenna at Puckeridge, fairly near the 'big stick'; he aimed to radiate the same power from both alternately, and see what reports he got. Fig 1 shows his layout. Surprisingly, the small one got slightly better reports, by about 4dB, and Jim's remarks on this were as follows. "COUPLING BETWEEN ANTENNAS Several people raised concerns about the coupling effects that might exist between the two antennas. If sufficient power was being coupled into the big antenna materially to affect the overall radiated signal, one would expect significant current to be flowing in the big antenna while transmitting from the small antenna - but there was none. Even with the big antenna resonant, the current induced in it by the small antenna was too small to contribute a significant fraction of the radiated power. RADIATION RESISTANCE The radiation resistance (2OmQ) of the small antenna was easy to calculate due to its simple geometry. The Decca mast was much more complicated - the exact radiation resistance depends on how thick you make the various conductors - however, the variation is not that great. I settled on a value of 0.65Q. If we assume that the 4dB difference in signal strengths was due entirely to the 0.65Q value being in error, the correct R would have to be about O.26Q to make the figures work out. I can't see how it would be as low as this, however.In summary, I chose the values of 0.02Q and O.65Q for small and big antennas as the consensus of a number of estimates, and would be surprised had the errors in the values been big enough to explain the differences observed in field strengths. POSSIBLE CAUSES My money is on the increased field strengths being due to fields and currents under the ground surface, resulting in greater effective height ofthe small antenna. Obviously, this needs more investigation, which I hope to try later. CONCLUSIONS The main point about this experiment was that, provided sufficient transmitter power is available, a small antenna can be made to radiate a given value of ERP just as well as a big one. This was borne out by the comparative signal reports. Of course, the big antenna will require much lower transmitter power, and will be much more stable electrically - a Decca requirement for complete phase stability. This is not a big surprise, and confirms the result that we got at the previous Puckeridge expedition. What is more surprising is that the small antenna seemed to be more efficient (less inefficient!) than would be expected from theory. What is more directly important is to discover the different factors affecting the power radiated by small antennas, so that this information can be used by LF amateurs to generate better signals. It is already clear that field strengths (and therefore ERP) depend on many more things than are taken into account in the simple antenna theory we use, and so the ERP figuresthatwe give out have little relation to reality. I hope soon to do some more experiments with different antenna environments in the hope of throwing some light on this." FINALLY THIS WAS A MOST interesting experiment and should give encouragement to those who can only erect small antennas for the LF bands (most of us). The powerful LF signal radiated by G3WSC enabled many who had never heard anything on the LF bands to do so; this, together with the straightforward DX aspects, must have been one of the most successful amateur radio experiments of recent times. --------------050206030206090101050706-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12435 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2001 23:22:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 23 Apr 2001 23:22:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 7371 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2001 23:21:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Apr 2001 23:21:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14rpYl-0001oo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 00:15:59 +0100 Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.164]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14rpYg-0001og-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 24 Apr 2001 00:15:55 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v30.9.) id l.48.14c1fc30 (16638) for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 19:14:49 -0400 (EDT) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <48.14c1fc30.28161169@aol.com> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 19:14:49 EDT Subject: Re: LF: Mixer SBL-3 wanted... To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 4/23/01 4:20:38 PM GMT Daylight Time, Richard.Gasparik@sbs.sk writes: << Hi LF-ers... I need an mixer SBL-3 DBM from Mini Circuit. Any idea where to buy it ? Thank you... 73 de Rich OM2TW >> Most Mini Circuits distributors take credit cards and accept small orders with free shipping. The local one to me is Dale Electronics in Surrey. The Mini Circuits web site will have a distributor list. If you plan on using the diode ring for mixing LF it may be worthwhile checking that the LO rejection (balance) level is sufficient. I tried an LF version of the SBL1 and found the LO leakage 73kHz away from the wanted frequency de-sensed the receiver. The MC1496 ended up a better choice. Good luck David G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13780 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2001 22:37:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Apr 2001 22:37:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 13430 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2001 22:37:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Apr 2001 22:37:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14rorQ-0001SS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 23:31:12 +0100 Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14rorA-0001SH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 23:30:56 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.87.187]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 19:29:47 -0300 Message-ID: <3AE4E5F9.399CD9C9@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:33:29 -0400 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Beacon tonight. References: <000c01c0cc37$16c12c40$59b9883e@g3aqc> Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Here is looking at you 73 de John VE1ZJ

Laurie Mayhead wrote:

Hi All,I dont know whats happening with the Ionosphere tonight. Both CFH and SXV are off. DCF39 took a 25db dive but is recovering now,most unusual. I will run the beacon again tonight,from 2230utc. 73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1515 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2001 21:58:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Apr 2001 21:58:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 19683 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2001 21:58:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Apr 2001 21:58:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14roEv-0001A4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:51:25 +0100 Received: from mail6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14roEr-00019z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:51:21 +0100 Received: from modem-89.elessar.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.185.89] helo=g3aqc) by mail6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14roEN-0005BW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 22:50:51 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c0cc37$16c12c40$59b9883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Beacon tonight. Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 21:50:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi All,
I dont know whats happening with the Ionosphere tonight. Both CFH and SXV are off. DCF39 took a 25db dive but is recovering now,most unusual. I will run the beacon again tonight,from 2230utc. 73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8771 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2001 18:19:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Apr 2001 18:19:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 11307 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2001 18:19:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 23 Apr 2001 18:19:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14rkoS-0008Kg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 19:11:52 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from m11.boston.juno.com ([64.136.24.74]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14rkoR-0008Kb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 19:11:52 +0100 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"yokUgcxCbtTP7XLrpefewHdXox9FTXWzTkmU5k7PXgX7EsqPZ0/oAA=="> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from riese-k3djc@juno.com) by m11.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id F3QUF736; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 14:11:08 EDT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 14:09:25 -0400 Subject: Re: LF: Re: Mixer SBL-3 wanted... Message-ID: <20010423.140933.-768661.1.riese-k3djc@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-3,5-12 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "BOB RIESE" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I need an mixer SBL-3 DBM from Mini Circuit. Any idea where to buy it ? Not sure how they deal with overseas orders but they sell direct and if you ask they should send there catalog/ reference data book. This is a very nice reference book for sure US tele number is 417 335 5935 or if it works 800 654 7949 for Europe try 44 252 835094 Bob K3DJC From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17373 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2001 17:35:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Apr 2001 17:35:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 25314 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2001 17:32:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Apr 2001 17:32:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14rk4a-00082f-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 18:24:28 +0100 Received: from cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.171]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14rk4Z-00082a-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 18:24:27 +0100 Received: from modem-90.beryllium.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.3.90] helo=robing) by cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14rk43-0000yp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 18:23:56 +0100 Message-ID: <000801c0cc11$e00e0760$5a03883e@robing> From: "Robin T. Greenwood" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E022586AE@btss103a.swh.sk> Subject: LF: Re: Mixer SBL-3 wanted... Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 17:24:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Try Barend Hendriksen in Holland he has a web page and takes cards... Robin G3LBA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Gasparik Richard" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group (E-mail)" Sent: Monday, April 23, 2001 4:14 PM Subject: LF: Mixer SBL-3 wanted... > Hi LF-ers... > > I need an mixer SBL-3 DBM from Mini Circuit. Any idea where to buy > it ? > > Thank you... > > 73 de Rich OM2TW > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19711 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2001 15:22:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Apr 2001 15:22:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 26767 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2001 15:22:24 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 23 Apr 2001 15:22:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ri3g-0007F0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 16:15:24 +0100 Received: from ns1.swh.sk ([192.108.125.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ri3a-0007Ev-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 16:15:19 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes [139.24.136.129]) by ns1.swh.sk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA29772 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 17:14:48 +0200 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id RAA12881 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 17:14:47 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 17:14:45 +0200 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E022586AE@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: Mixer SBL-3 wanted... Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 17:14:44 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi LF-ers... I need an mixer SBL-3 DBM from Mini Circuit. Any idea where to buy it ? Thank you... 73 de Rich OM2TW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 379 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2001 13:01:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Apr 2001 13:01:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 13180 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2001 13:01:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Apr 2001 13:01:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14rfqU-0006IN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 13:53:38 +0100 Received: from tomts13.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.34] helo=tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14rfqQ-0006II-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 13:53:34 +0100 Received: from server1 ([216.209.138.47]) by tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010423125234.WCFC6402.tomts13-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1>; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 08:52:34 -0400 Message-ID: <002d01c0cbf4$1b2a2720$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: "lloyd chastant" , rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000a01c0cb9f$ef5f1b40$965154d8@3114601> Subject: LF: Re: Wolf 4/23 Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 08:51:19 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Lloyd: >Larry was just checking your frequency tonite at about 0130Z and had solid copy on your > M0BMU DE VA3LK >Good to see a wolf signal HI!! 73 de Lloyd W3NF Thank You for the reception report. The WOLF transmissions are from 01 to 02 utc every night on 137.7894 kHz. If your interested in Visual CW, look on the same frequency from 06 utc to 10 utc for the nightly transmissions to ZL and VK. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13574 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2001 08:05:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Apr 2001 08:05:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 129 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2001 08:05:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 23 Apr 2001 08:05:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14rbCf-0004Rz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 08:56:13 +0100 Received: from hatfield.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.39]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14rbCb-0004Rt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 08:56:09 +0100 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-3-116.easynet.co.uk [195.40.202.116]) by hatfield.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 0772822E163 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 08:55:33 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <005e01c0cbcb$108dc520$74ca28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C043F@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> <001601c0c4fd$6a22a800$9fce28c3@ericadodd> <000901c0c526$5a4563e0$3329f7c2@oemcomputer> Subject: LF: RE: Helical antennas Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 08:56:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > The "normal mode" helical aerial by DA Tong. Radio Communication Jul 74 pp > 432 to 437. > 73 de > John Rabson G3PAI Many thanks to John and others for your help. As a result I was able to get a photo copy of D Tong's article from the RSGB. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3418 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2001 07:55:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Apr 2001 07:55:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 23748 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2001 07:55:03 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 23 Apr 2001 07:55:03 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14rb0t-0004MZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 08:44:03 +0100 Received: from ns1.swh.sk ([192.108.125.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14rb0o-0004MU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 08:43:59 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes [139.24.136.129]) by ns1.swh.sk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA06766 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 09:43:16 +0200 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id JAA00570 for ; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 09:43:15 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 23 Apr 2001 09:43:13 +0200 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E022586A5@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: OM2YL on LF... Date: Mon, 23 Apr 2001 09:43:11 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi LF-ers... My XYL Zuzana OM2YL made her first QSO on LF. The first "happy man" was Markus DF6NM. After that QSO she worked also Otti OM5CW. She told me that QRSS is a very good "time saving" mode - she may cook and operate the LF station in the same time (real multitasking). Welcome on LF Zuzana. 73 de Rich OM2TW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16163 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2001 20:50:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Apr 2001 20:50:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 24536 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2001 20:50:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 22 Apr 2001 20:50:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14rQfN-0000Pb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2001 21:41:09 +0100 Received: from mail3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14rQfM-0000PW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2001 21:41:08 +0100 Received: from modem-124.arthad.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.128.124] helo=g3aqc) by mail3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14rQeu-0007Id-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2001 21:40:40 +0100 Message-ID: <001401c0cb64$1d1a39c0$7c80883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Beacon Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 20:38:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Will run again tonight,starting 2200utc. 73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 433 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2001 20:39:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 22 Apr 2001 20:39:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 11877 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2001 20:39:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 22 Apr 2001 20:39:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14rQVH-0000K7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2001 21:30:43 +0100 Received: from chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14rQVH-0000Jz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2001 21:30:43 +0100 Received: from ericadodd (unknown [195.40.127.49]) by chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5B54EF8323 for ; Sun, 22 Apr 2001 21:29:54 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <001101c0cb6b$4940da20$317f28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: LF Handbook Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 21:24:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The LF Handbook errata has been updated and an improved image of Fig 3 to the 'Earthing Resistance of Antennae' posted. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26321 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2001 19:27:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Apr 2001 19:27:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 6940 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2001 19:26:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 22 Apr 2001 19:26:41 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14rPLE-0008OV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2001 20:16:16 +0100 Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14rPLB-0008OQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2001 20:16:13 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.102.62]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Sun, 22 Apr 2001 16:15:07 -0300 Message-ID: <3AE366D8.7A10EE8@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 22 Apr 2001 19:18:49 -0400 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: lf tests Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all nil last nite wl look agn if any wl tx tonite 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15725 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2001 23:36:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Apr 2001 23:36:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 19598 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2001 23:36:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Apr 2001 23:36:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14r6qI-0001aJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2001 00:31:06 +0100 Received: from mail6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14r6qH-0001aE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2001 00:31:05 +0100 Received: from modem-105.ard-galen.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.122.233] helo=g3aqc) by mail6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14r6po-0005UP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 22 Apr 2001 00:30:37 +0100 Message-ID: <001401c0cab2$afd5fcc0$e97a883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. Beacon Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 23:29:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi John and all,
This is a repeat of a much earlier message which  does not seem to have got on to the reflector. Thanks John for the reports very pleased you saw me,some hope for the summer now. I am transmitting again tonight,now.  73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23593 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2001 16:29:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Apr 2001 16:29:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 20637 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2001 16:29:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Apr 2001 16:29:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14qzzM-0007Jd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2001 17:12:00 +0100 Received: from cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.173]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14qzzJ-0007JY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2001 17:11:57 +0100 Received: from modem-238.elessar.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.185.238] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14qzyB-0005Uy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2001 17:10:47 +0100 Message-ID: <001101c0ca75$567eaa60$eeb9883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Beacon tonight Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 16:10:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi John and all,
Many thanks John for the reports.Alan will be interested to hear that CFH is back.
I will transmit again tonight from about 2230utc.Lets see what
happens.  73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20710 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2001 11:16:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 21 Apr 2001 11:16:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 7463 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2001 11:16:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Apr 2001 11:16:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14qvFM-0005MF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2001 12:08:12 +0100 Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14qvFL-0005MA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2001 12:08:11 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.98.170]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2001 08:07:05 -0300 Message-ID: <3AE1A2F4.F04C721F@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 11:10:44 -0400 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: lf tests Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, Laurie was a little bit visible from 0000Z last night with a modicum of ESP. His signals popped up to "M" copy at 0300Z will send picture later. CFH seems back on all the time lately. I am pleased to have reception after a long drought due to CMEs. Dte 21 April. It will be interesting to see if we can make it across in summer 73 de john VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15229 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2001 09:38:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Apr 2001 09:38:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 1644 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2001 09:38:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Apr 2001 09:38:30 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14qtkm-0004kq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2001 10:32:32 +0100 Received: from mta13-acc.tin.it ([212.216.176.44] helo=fep13-svc.tin.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14qtkj-0004kg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2001 10:32:29 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from mailsrv.dii.unisi.it ([212.171.197.203]) by fep13-svc.tin.it (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with ESMTP id <20010421093129.KYVK1582.fep13-svc.tin.it@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2001 11:31:29 +0200 Message-ID: <3AE15253.58380F99@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 11:26:43 +0200 From: "valerio gabbani" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Wolf Tests References: <3236.200104201708@gemini> Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------050501070702020707050602" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050501070702020707050602 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit James Moritz wrote: > Dear LF group, > > Thanks to CT1DRP again, who was able to decode last night's > signals both at the 30mW and 10mW ERP levels. > > I plan to run the "Wolf" mode beacon again this evening; from 2000 > until 2100 utc will be a 5mW ERP QRP test, while from 2100 > onwards I will increase power to 300mW ERP. Frequency will be > 137.4400kHz again. > > I will probably not run the beacon at the weekend, since I have > relatives staying. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU Jim, in the file attached there is the result of about 25 minutes recording. Your signal was also perfectly visible with Argo. '73, Valerio --------------050501070702020707050602 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; name="out.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="out.txt" WOLF version 0.52 t: 24 f: 0.220 a:-1.4 dp: 82.1 ci: 1 cj:302 M0BMU 300MW ERP - t: 48 f: 0.421 a: 0.7 dp: 80.1 ci: 0 cj: 92 V/5RXBYFWOV0DRA ? t: 96 f:-0.833 a:-1.4 dp: 81.3 ci:10 cj:412 W M6BTOTKRTHPBT ? t: 192 f: 0.195 pm: 68 jm:355 M0BMU 300MW ERP - t: 288 f: 0.166 pm: 107 jm:355 M0BMU 300MW ERP - t: 384 f: 0.166 pm: 114 jm:355 M0BMU 300MW ERP - t: 480 f: 0.146 pm: 154 jm:355 M0BMU 300MW ERP - t: 576 f: 0.146 pm: 209 jm:355 M0BMU 300MW ERP - t: 672 f: 0.146 pm: 294 jm:355 M0BMU 300MW ERP - t: 768 f: 0.146 pm: 394 jm:355 M0BMU 300MW ERP - t: 864 f: 0.146 pm: 398 jm:355 M0BMU 300MW ERP - t: 960 f: 0.146 pm: 399 jm:355 M0BMU 300MW ERP - t:1056 f: 0.146 pm: 400 jm:355 M0BMU 300MW ERP - t:1152 f: 0.146 pm: 401 jm:355 M0BMU 300MW ERP - t:1248 f: 0.146 pm: 401 jm:355 M0BMU 300MW ERP - t:1344 f: 0.146 pm: 401 jm:355 M0BMU 300MW ERP - t:1440 f: 0.146 pm: 401 jm:355 M0BMU 300MW ERP - t:1536 f: 0.146 pm: 401 jm:355 M0BMU 300MW ERP - --------------050501070702020707050602-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20921 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2001 07:22:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 21 Apr 2001 07:22:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 25558 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2001 07:22:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Apr 2001 07:22:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14qrek-0003uC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2001 08:18:10 +0100 Received: from postfix2-1.free.fr ([213.228.0.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14qrej-0003u7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 21 Apr 2001 08:18:09 +0100 Received: from f5maf (nas-cbv-1-47-165.dial.proxad.net [213.228.47.165]) by postfix2-1.free.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 31044C15D for ; Sat, 21 Apr 2001 09:17:41 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <003e01c0ca33$55c52460$a52fe4d5@f5maf> From: "f5maf" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3ADFFE1E.F059A64E@usa.net> <3AE02A6B.A76E0922@dii.unisi.it> Subject: Re: LF: Strong Wolf (?) signal yesterday evening Date: Sat, 21 Apr 2001 09:18:58 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi valerio, This week end I m going to modify TX for a frequency shift (? Hz), I can (if you explain me how manage Wolf system) send in Wolf mode next week. Marc F5MAF ----- Original Message ----- From: Valerio Gabbani To: Sent: Friday, April 20, 2001 2:24 PM Subject: Re: LF: Strong Wolf (?) signal yesterday evening > > > Alberto di Bene wrote: > > > I saw a strong signal that probably was Wolf-encoded > > yesterday (Apr. 19) evening at about 137.5kHz > > I am not setup for Wolf reception, so cannot say > > who was originating it. Given its strength here in > > Northern Italy, probably it was from IK5ZPV. > > > > 73 Alberto I2PHD > > Alberto, > last evening i was transmitting and running some times 10W and some > times 60W. > > I tried to receive also M0BMU, no signal was visible with Argo and no > success in decoding with Wolf. > > I will try again in the next evenings. > > > '73, Valerio (IK5ZPV) > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26521 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 22:11:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 22:11:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 4331 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 22:11:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 22:11:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14qj2F-0000JK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 23:05:51 +0100 Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14qj2E-0000JF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 23:05:50 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.9.4]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 19:04:41 -0300 Message-ID: <3AE0EB94.E1040FFC@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 22:08:20 -0400 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Beacon tonight. References: <001001c0c9ad$ed27af20$4f27893e@g3aqc> Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi Laurie thought you almost came out of noise last night.   CFH  back on last nite and tonite.  Will start looking 2215Z
   73 de Kohn VE1ZJ

Laurie Mayhead wrote:

Hi all,I am not all that confident about conditions at the moment,although Solar flux and Sunspot no's have been downduring the last few days.However we have had a lot of CME activity. But I will run the beacon again tonight. Still hoping!73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5961 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 21:49:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 21:49:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 12682 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 21:49:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 21:49:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14qifi-0000BB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 22:42:34 +0100 Received: from tomts6.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.26] helo=tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14qifh-0000B6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 22:42:34 +0100 Received: from server1 ([216.209.110.17]) by tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010420214133.BCVR17629.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:41:33 -0400 Message-ID: <002101c0c9e2$8de1ef00$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3236.200104201708@gemini> Subject: LF: Re: Wolf Tests Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:40:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jim: No comments from you lately so I will reiterate, I am sending you WOLF every night from 01 utc to 02 utc. I have a third PC watching the antenna current every 10 seconds so I know that the signal is going out every evening. 137.7894 is the TX freq. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19549 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 17:17:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 17:17:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 8280 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 17:17:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 17:17:38 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14qeOz-0006pG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 18:09:01 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14qeOy-0006pB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 18:09:00 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14qeOX-0003qd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 18:08:33 +0100 Message-ID: <3236.200104201708@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 18:08:44 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Wolf Tests X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF group, Thanks to CT1DRP again, who was able to decode last night's signals both at the 30mW and 10mW ERP levels. I plan to run the "Wolf" mode beacon again this evening; from 2000 until 2100 utc will be a 5mW ERP QRP test, while from 2100 onwards I will increase power to 300mW ERP. Frequency will be 137.4400kHz again. I will probably not run the beacon at the weekend, since I have relatives staying. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23979 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 16:31:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 16:31:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 9186 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 16:31:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 16:31:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14qdi0-0006Wd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:24:36 +0100 Received: from mail1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.18]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14qdhw-0006WY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:24:32 +0100 Received: from modem-79.lyre-tailed-anthias.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.39.79] helo=g3aqc) by mail1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14qdhS-0007EB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 17:24:02 +0100 Message-ID: <001001c0c9ad$ed27af20$4f27893e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Beacon tonight. Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 16:23:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi all,
I am not all that confident about conditions at the moment,although Solar flux and Sunspot no's have been down
during the last few days.However we have had a lot of CME activity. But I will run the beacon again tonight. Still hoping!
73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2707 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 12:34:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 12:34:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 23534 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 12:34:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 12:34:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14qa0k-00051T-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:27:42 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [195.103.144.19] (helo=aruba.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14qa0h-00051O-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 13:27:40 +0100 Received: from dii.unisi.it ([62.149.137.47]) by aruba.it with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.0.2195.1600); Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:36:22 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AE02A6B.A76E0922@dii.unisi.it> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 14:24:11 +0200 From: "Valerio Gabbani" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Strong Wolf (?) signal yesterday evening References: <3ADFFE1E.F059A64E@usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-OriginalArrivalTime: 20 Apr 2001 12:36:25.0030 (UTC) FILETIME=[833A7E60:01C0C996] Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alberto di Bene wrote: > I saw a strong signal that probably was Wolf-encoded > yesterday (Apr. 19) evening at about 137.5kHz > I am not setup for Wolf reception, so cannot say > who was originating it. Given its strength here in > Northern Italy, probably it was from IK5ZPV. > > 73 Alberto I2PHD Alberto, last evening i was transmitting and running some times 10W and some times 60W. I tried to receive also M0BMU, no signal was visible with Argo and no success in decoding with Wolf. I will try again in the next evenings. '73, Valerio (IK5ZPV) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17429 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 09:29:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 09:29:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 45 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2001 09:29:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Apr 2001 09:29:05 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14qX31-0003kp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:17:51 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06lmsgate-3.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14qX2x-0003kk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:17:47 +0100 Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by d06lmsgate-3.uk.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id KAA150342 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:07:52 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (ss3.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.68]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.96) with ESMTP id KAA137254 for ; Fri, 20 Apr 2001 10:16:40 +0100 Message-ID: <3ADFFE1E.F059A64E@usa.net> Date: Fri, 20 Apr 2001 11:15:10 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Mailing List" Subject: LF: Strong Wolf (?) signal yesterday evening Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I saw a strong signal that probably was Wolf-encoded yesterday (Apr. 19) evening at about 137.5kHz I am not setup for Wolf reception, so cannot say who was originating it. Given its strength here in Northern Italy, probably it was from IK5ZPV. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6757 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2001 20:03:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Apr 2001 20:03:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 3555 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2001 20:03:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Apr 2001 20:03:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14qKZM-0007A8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 20:58:24 +0100 Received: from cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.171]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14qKZI-0007A3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 20:58:20 +0100 Received: from modem-79.balrog.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.132.79] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14qKYq-0006p1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 20:57:53 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c0c902$a0bafb20$4f84883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Beacon tonight. Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 19:56:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi John Dex and All,
I am getting a very strong signal here tonight from SXV so
will run the beacon again. Starting 2100utc on 135.922
DFCW 30sec dots. 73s Laurie
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20515 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2001 18:40:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Apr 2001 18:40:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 6232 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2001 18:40:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Apr 2001 18:40:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14qJFn-0006cL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 19:34:07 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14qJFk-0006cG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 19:34:04 +0100 Received: from [62.7.61.37] (helo=dave) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14qJFI-0006l3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 19:33:36 +0100 Message-ID: <004701c0c8ff$6734c0a0$253d073e@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" References: <3ADE8207.62458654@alg.demon.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Club Talk at Trowbridge, Wiltshire Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 19:28:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Steve Rawlings wrote: >I will not be setting up a live demonstration station on this >initial visit to their club. Instead, I will take along lots of >gear, plus an audio tape of some of the stations heard on 136 kHz >(Dave G3YMC has found this to be an effective technique when >presenting his own talk). As Steve comments, I have found the use of off air recordings far more useful than trying to set up a station at an unknown or non radio friendly club venue. Certainly the two times I have given my talk the interest from the audience has been most encouraging. I wish Steve and Dick good luck with their talks. For those of you who suggested my talk was videoed, this was in fact done and we have two seperate recordings. We are trying to get this into a presentable form and will let you know when this has been complete. 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@btinternet.com dsergeant@iee.org http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1222 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2001 17:04:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Apr 2001 17:04:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 11686 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2001 17:04:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Apr 2001 17:04:19 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14qHjE-00061j-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 17:56:24 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14qHjA-00061e-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 17:56:20 +0100 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14qHii-00034b-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 17:55:52 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <20827.200104191655@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 17:56:02 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: WOLF tests, soundcard trouble, VE2IQ interface In-reply-to: <003e01c0c800$0d3eab60$0700000a@parissn2> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Brian, Stewart, LF group, Thank you Brian for the report - the 30mW ERP signal was generated with abt 120W into my inverted L at 8m height. I will put the beacon on again tonight, starting at 2000utc, this time with 30mW ERP for an hour, then going down to 10mW ERP. I checked the sample rate errors of my soundcard - on 8000samples/sec this is about -5600ppm and on 11025samples/sec it is +2000ppm. So a lot bigger than likely errors due to crystal tolerance, for some reason. I have been looking at the clock crystal frequencies in all the soundcards I could find - the older ones had all sorts of different frequencies, most of which had no obvious integer relationship with popular sample rates. Quite a few used 14.31818 MHz, 46.61512 was popular too. Some had 2 or 3 crystals, one had none at all. The newer ones have mostly 24.576MHz crystals - this seems to be the norm for the AC '97 standard based soundcards which Alberto mentioned recently, which seem to be universal now. I found some data on 3 types of "audio codec" A/D and D/A which I saw, which conform to this standard: Sigmatel STAC9721T http://www.sigmatel.com/technical_docs.htm#9721 Crystal CS4201 http://207.87.22.21/design/products/overview/index.cfm?ProductID =138 Analog Devices AD1818 http://www.analog.com/techsupt/application_notes/EE_notes/pdf_fil es/ee_54.pdf Although 48k seems to be the basic sample rate of the standard, they all have hardware support for the popular sampling rates such as 11.025k. However they do it in different ways, eg. the Sigmatel A/D converter always runs at 48k and converts the sample rate digitally, while the AD1818 seems to have a synthesiser that can tune between 7k and 48k samples/s in 1 sample/sec steps. This is all very interesting, but probably means that frequency oddities will continue to be a feature of soundcards. For VE2IQ's "Coherent" software, I have one of G4JNT's PIC- based interfaces - this performs the same function as the original VE2IQ interface, but is rather simpler, having just the PIC, a 5V regulator, and an audio preamp. It certainly seems to work perfectly well, and the crystal can easily be tweaked. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10510 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2001 08:04:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Apr 2001 08:04:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 3330 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2001 08:04:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Apr 2001 08:04:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14q9KD-0002TP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 08:58:01 +0100 Received: from rubellite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14q9K7-0002TK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 08:57:55 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust49.tnt20.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.116.134.49]) by rubellite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 879492A5D for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 07:56:55 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <001d01c0c8a6$90ec3760$318674d5@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3ADE8207.62458654@alg.demon.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Club Talk at Trowbridge, Wiltshire Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 09:58:09 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To All from PA0SE Steve, GW4ALG wrote: > I will be presenting a talk entitled '136 kHz DXing From A Small > Back Garden' to the members of the Trowbridge & District Amateur > Radio Club at 8.00pm on May 2nd. > It will be the first time that I have done such a presentation, > and I trust that it will be good enough to encourage some more > activity on LF. Excellent Steve, I wish you good luck and a large and attentive audience. I have presented talks on LF several times already at different places in our country and found it very rewarding . It is well pay some attention to the receive side because that is where newcomers have to start on. Explaining that my 2 x 20m dipole with 11m open feeder working as a T-aerial on 137kHz is the equivalent of a T-aerial of 2 x 75cm and a vertical leg of 40cm working on 80 metres makes it easy to understand for the audience why the aerial has such low efficiency!. > I will take along lots of gear, plus an audio tape of some of the stations heard on 136 kHz. An excellent idea, the audio tape, that I will incorporate in my coming talks! There are two already planned. Thanks Dave and Steve for the hint! 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1060 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2001 06:50:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Apr 2001 06:50:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 23330 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2001 06:50:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Apr 2001 06:50:39 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14q87n-0001zi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 07:41:07 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.91]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14q87m-0001zd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 07:41:06 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14q87J-000Lcz-0X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 07:40:38 +0100 Message-ID: <3ADE8207.62458654@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 07:13:27 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Club Talk at Trowbridge, Wiltshire Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, I will be presenting a talk entitled '136 kHz DXing From A Small Back Garden' to the members of the Trowbridge & District Amateur Radio Club at 8.00pm on May 2nd. It will be the first time that I have done such a presentation, and I trust that it will be good enough to encourage some more activity on LF. I will not be setting up a live demonstration station on this initial visit to their club. Instead, I will take along lots of gear, plus an audio tape of some of the stations heard on 136 kHz (Dave G3YMC has found this to be an effective technique when presenting his own talk). Details of the Trowbridge Club can be found at: http://www.gertdarc.fsnet.co.uk/tdarc.htm If anyone is thinking of going along, they should probably advise Ian G0GRI, the club secretary, beforehand. His Email address is on the TDARC web site. Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20327 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2001 22:11:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Apr 2001 22:11:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 18322 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2001 22:11:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 18 Apr 2001 22:11:31 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14q067-0007JN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 23:06:51 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.89]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14q066-0007JI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 23:06:50 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14q05a-0007nv-0V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 23:06:19 +0100 Message-ID: <3ADE10B6.C77786C@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 23:09:58 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Improving conditions: OH/G Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, I've heard Reino OH1TN a couple of times this year, and last night (Wednesday) he was audible again. Reino was on 136.8 kHz, running 150 watts to his 500 m inverted L antenna. I replied to Reino's CQ call at 20:40 UT and we had a fine QSO. I sent him RST 559; and received 339, rising to 539. The distance between us is 1916 km. Reino then went on to complete a QSO with Ron G6RO, also giving him a 539 report. (By the way, Ron has now worked 15 countries on 136 kHz.) Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25626 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2001 21:55:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Apr 2001 21:55:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 27900 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2001 21:54:47 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 18 Apr 2001 21:54:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pzq4-0007CC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 22:50:16 +0100 Received: from rhun.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.26]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pzq3-0007C7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 22:50:15 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from srv17slx.esoterica.pt (srv17slx.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.47]) by rhun.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f3ILnkH16170 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 22:49:46 +0100 (WEST) Received: from slave2 (por117.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.117]) by srv17slx.esoterica.pt (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA06318 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 22:49:45 +0100 (WET DST) Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010418214856.0085c740@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 21:48:56 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: LF: Thought Experiment MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >I hope to run a WOLF - mode signal this evening from about >2000utc. I will start at 300mW ERP, then after an hour reduce to >30mW ERP and leave it running for a couple of hours. As before, I >will transmit a carrier for a few minutes at the start of each 1/2 >hour. I will transmit on 137.4400kHz for a change, in case anyone >is trying to use 137.5kHz. > >Cheers, Jim Moritz >73 de M0BMU C:\Wolf>wolf53 -q logfile2.wav -r 8018.602 -f 800.11 -t .1 WOLF version 0.53 t: 24 f: 0.017 a: 1.2 dp: 95.8 ci: 5 cj:203 EN7QZ6U7CF1F3 6 ? t: 48 f:-0.010 a: 1.5 dp: 91.2 ci:14 cj:156 V4EB 0ROLP.NIKC ? t: 96 f:-0.020 a:-0.3 dp: 89.9 ci: 0 cj:334 L*.4HV2OGPR9XD8 ? t: 192 f:-0.107 pm: 43 jm:879 8VI75EN88SYI469 ? t: 288 f: 0.068 pm: 53 jm:757 DETD1WGIX/FJ54C ? t: 384 f:-0.098 pm: 71 jm:156 IA0WES2P/R2LH Z ? t: 480 f:-0.098 pm: 75 jm:156 ZC0GR4**WBJG2PX ? t: 576 f:-0.068 pm: 78 jm: 65 JSJOWR7Y6MTGS25 ? t: 672 f:-0.068 pm: 82 jm: 65 65UA7V HPT8TIVV ? t: 768 f:-0.068 pm: 85 jm: 65 I83P2OQV4QHIS2Q ? t: 864 f: 0.000 pm: 122 jm:920 18H???7SC2Y846H ? t: 960 f: 0.010 pm: 146 jm:920 II.DXJZA6815X2 ? t:1056 f: 0.010 pm: 203 jm:920 CQ M0BMU M0BMU - t:1152 f: 0.010 pm: 264 jm:920 CQ M0BMU M0BMU - t:1248 f: 0.010 pm: 304 jm:920 CQ M0BMU M0BMU - C:\Wolf>wolf53 -q logfile3.wav -r 8018.602 -f 800.11 -t .1 WOLF version 0.53 t: 24 f:-0.068 a:-0.3 dp: 98.4 ci:10 cj:115 ???G7ZMTM.D6/GK ? t: 48 f:-0.026 a: 0.3 dp: 98.0 ci: 6 cj: 54 T6J.A.151SC WO1 ? t: 96 f: 0.064 a:-1.5 dp: 92.3 ci:10 cj:265 EO4M.A 786PZ??? - t: 192 f: 0.010 pm: 155 jm:828 7NLC2K12Z7MN/.V ? t: 288 f: 0.010 pm: 338 jm:828 CQ M0BMU M0BMU - t: 384 f: 0.010 pm: 350 jm:828 CQ M0BMU M0BMU - t: 480 f: 0.010 pm: 355 jm:828 CQ M0BMU M0BMU - t: 576 f: 0.010 pm: 362 jm:828 YMMBWUQM9JJ9??? ? t: 672 f: 0.010 pm: 368 jm:828 HV68HWP51JUJB.W - t: 768 f: 0.010 pm: 392 jm:828 Z590GJ9CU5LJMG5 ? t: 864 f: 0.010 pm: 398 jm:828 XJT0GJ9CU5LJMG5 ? t: 960 f: 0.010 pm: 404 jm:828 /A VZ5K2BNGYFA* ? t:1056 f: 0.010 pm: 408 jm:828 NSL*U60B*ZGBLPN ? t:1152 f: 0.010 pm: 409 jm:828 XJ1TAN*1656S2AT ? t:1248 f: 0.010 pm: 416 jm:828 IFAFU.3CG???LXH ? t:1344 f: 0.010 pm: 442 jm:397 V4TOJ713P C3I*5 ? t:1440 f: 0.010 pm: 525 jm:397 Y3/DVX30MW ERP ? t:1536 f: 0.010 pm: 575 jm:397 M0BMU 30MW ERP - t:1632 f: 0.010 pm: 597 jm:397 M0BMU 30MW ERP - I also have a picture of a blank screen if anybody is interested. 73, Brian 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25128 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2001 21:54:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Apr 2001 21:54:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 21923 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2001 21:54:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 18 Apr 2001 21:54:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pzmw-0007Be-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 22:47:02 +0100 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pzmu-0007BZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 22:47:01 +0100 Received: from steve (ppp180.dyn154.pacific.net.au [210.23.154.180]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA06950 for ; Thu, 19 Apr 2001 07:46:25 +1000 Message-ID: <006401c0c851$187682e0$0301a8c0@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <63.14878f3e.28088e1e@aol.com> <003e01c0c53a$29315d90$0700000a@parissn2> <005301c0c614$19889180$0301a8c0@steve> <007f01c0c683$5af3b3b0$0700000a@parissn2> <004d01c0c6bf$6afea3a0$0301a8c0@steve> <002501c0c829$01279700$0700000a@parissn2> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: [TECH] WOLF, FDK, AFK, etc. Date: Thu, 19 Apr 2001 07:46:47 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G'day Stewart, > > The spectrum and the performance of both 'systems' are identical, because > it's just two ways of talking about the same thing! > Wow !!! Very clever !!! Thanks for proving that FDK (Wanjina) has a possibility of being as good as other systems. That is encouraging. It is nice to receive some encouragement when sometimes the main propensity of some is to undersell other peoples ideas whilst overselling their own. > > Of course, PSK and FDK > can have parameters that make them look very different. But, IMO, for a > given data rate and a given bandwidth, the settings that provide the most > robust transmission result in very similar spectra and performance because: > Of course. No question. Thanks once again for the proof. > > ..... adjust parameters to tolerate very much of this trouble, the stability > requirements quickly reach the point where AFK would work just as well, > so why not just use AFK? > Hurray - hurray - hurray !!!! (That's three cheers :-) After three years of pushing AFK (Piccolo Mark 1) onto an unwilling audience, finally. BTW, the other barrow I have been pushing for some time now is to only use the standard sampling rates of 11025Hz, 22050Hz and 44100Hz, giving reasons which are now being backed up by wider experience. All my software I wrote only used these sample rates, except for VFSKCW. There, because I didn't have the know-how to output to the soundcard in real-time, I use pre-generated WAV files stored on the hard-disk In an effort to save disk space I used 5512Hz. Boy, what a mistake !!! Serves me right for not taking my own advice :-) Some users reported large errors in output tone frequency including one where, on a laptop, the tone came out a SIX times the required rate !!!! 8000Hz is better than 5512Hz, but still has problems (on my laptop here 8000Hz has about 300ppm error, while 11025Hz has 50ppm error). Stewart - when are we going to be treated to a GUI version of WOLF ? I hope you are not one of those WINDOZE bashers !!! Providing a GUI real-time interface for transmission and reception would make WOLF more accessible to the ordinary masses (like myself). I hope to have a user-friendly version of Wanjina and Piccolo going by the end of the year. Unfortunately a change in job has meant I don't have the free time I used to have. Ah well - have to re-start work on the Lotto Retirement Plan :-) 73s Steve Olney (VK2ZTO/AXSO - QF56IK : Lat -33 34 07, Long +150 44 40) ============================================= HomePage URLs: http://www.qsl.net/vk2zto http://www.zeta.org.au/~ollaneg Containing:- ULF, ELF, VLF & LF Experimentation InfraSonic Experimentation Laser Comms DX Amateur Radio Astronomy ============================================= From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8752 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2001 16:58:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 18 Apr 2001 16:58:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 21870 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2001 16:58:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 18 Apr 2001 16:58:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pvBJ-0005I0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 17:51:53 +0100 Received: from cobalt4.source.net ([206.100.10.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pvBF-0005Hv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 17:51:49 +0100 Received: from parissn2 (AMontsouris-101-1-2-155.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.251.39.155]) by cobalt4.source.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA21098 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 09:51:19 -0700 Message-ID: <002501c0c829$01279700$0700000a@parissn2> From: "Stewart Nelson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <63.14878f3e.28088e1e@aol.com> <003e01c0c53a$29315d90$0700000a@parissn2> <005301c0c614$19889180$0301a8c0@steve> <007f01c0c683$5af3b3b0$0700000a@parissn2> <004d01c0c6bf$6afea3a0$0301a8c0@steve> Subject: LF: Re: Re: [TECH] WOLF, FDK, AFK, etc. Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 18:59:54 +0200 Organization: SC Group MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Steve and all, > FDK is only similar to > BPSK in terms of a possible way it can be generated. Its spectrum over a > 60 second epoch (the initial character duration for now) looks identical to > a two tone SSB test signal (assuming linear) and bears no resemblance to > BPSK. That's only because of your choice of parameters. Consider a BPSK system, with an XOR gate modulator, which can send one of six messages 'A' through 'F'. A trivial code might be A=000, B=001, C=010, D=011, E=100, F=101. Assume that eight repetitions of the message are sent, at 24 bps, so the total transmission takes 1 second. For example, 'B' would be sent as 001001001001001001001001. If hard decisions are used, we can only 'correct' for three bit errors, and detect four. If we received e.g. 101001101101001101101001 (five bits in error) we would incorrectly copy an 'F'. Now let's add some error correction by using the following code: A 000000000000111111111111 B 000000111111000000111111 C 000011110000111100001111 D 000111000111000111000111 E 001100110011001100110011 F 010101010101010101010101 In the new code, every message differs in 12 bits from every other, so copy is always correct with five or fewer bit errors. We can now detect a six bit error, and incorrect copy results only when seven or more bits are wrong. Tracking is also improved, because the receiver can expect that the first bit is always '0' and the last is always '1'. But, as you have probably already figured out, this is FDK. The code is: A +/- 1 Hz B +/- 2 Hz C +/- 3 Hz D +/- 4 Hz E +/- 6 Hz F +/- 12 Hz The spectrum and the performance of both 'systems' are identical, because it's just two ways of talking about the same thing! Of course, PSK and FDK can have parameters that make them look very different. But, IMO, for a given data rate and a given bandwidth, the settings that provide the most robust transmission result in very similar spectra and performance because: > > If [the set of symbols used for FDK is] large, e.g. a pair for each > > letter of the alphabet, I don't see a > > good way to track the signal when it is very weak. In most well designed systems, if the signal is strong, there is a direct relation between signal power and speed: you can accommodate a 3 dB reduction in Tx power by taking twice as long to send your message. But once the time to convey one bit (in the Shannon sense) exceeds the limit imposed by path and/or equipment stability, the best you can hope for is taking four times longer for each 3 dB reduction. Essentially, you must transition from coherent to noncoherent integration. QRSS and PUA43 are examples of systems which can perform well in that region. In theory, WOLF could also, but time synchronization of the stations would be required. Since the present WOLF has neither a real-time mode, nor a command line parameter to specify a time offset, it doesn't work. But that could fairly easily be fixed. Now, you must realize that if you are using soft decisions with a powerful ECC and/or with many repetitions of the message, you can get good copy even when many received symbols are in error. And, if symbols are chosen from a large set, good copy is possible when most, perhaps a great majority, of the received symbols are wrong! As I understand FDK, whenever the pair of FFT bins with the highest energy is not those for the symbol actually sent, the tracking signal for that period is just noise. If this occurs a high percentage of the time, signal recovery is impossible. If you adjust parameters to tolerate very much of this trouble, the stability requirements quickly reach the point where AFK would work just as well, so why not just use AFK? I am short of time here, so the remaining issues will be answered in another post. 73, Stewart KK7KA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18383 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2001 15:49:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Apr 2001 15:49:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 12147 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2001 15:48:57 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 18 Apr 2001 15:48:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pu3o-0004oP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 16:40:04 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pu3k-0004nx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 16:40:00 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA830702 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 17:39:32 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010418164055.3e37ae9a@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 16:40:55 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: (b)psk signal bandwidths In-reply-to: <003e01c0c800$0d3eab60$0700000a@parissn2> References: <3.0.1.16.20010418112245.218f3f10@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello, Last night I took some more spectra of (b)psk signal and put the results on my webpage, have a look at : http://www.qsl.net/on7yd/PSK_TEST/psk_test.htm Besides the BPSK and PSK signals I also measured a 12WPM CW signal (as reference) and 3 different 'gradual' PSK signals, one with a gradual phase shift over 100ms (= 100% of a bitlength), one with a gradual phase shift over 50ms (= 50% of the bitlength) and one with a gradual phase shift over 25ms (= 25% of the bitlength). For better understanding I further added the amplitude/time and phase/time diagrams for each of the signals. >From this measurements it is clear that PSK has the smallest bandwidth, slighty worse is gradual PSK with 100ms transient time. But gradual PSK with 50ms transient time has a quite acceptable bandwidth and even gradual PSk with 25ms transient time is still better than 12WPM CW. BPSK seems to have all the 'ingredients' needed to fill a significant part of the band with rubbish. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26560 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2001 12:09:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Apr 2001 12:09:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 21003 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2001 12:09:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 18 Apr 2001 12:09:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pqbf-0003Kf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 12:58:47 +0100 Received: from cobalt4.source.net ([206.100.10.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pqbe-0003Ka-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 12:58:46 +0100 Received: from parissn2 (AMontsouris-101-1-2-155.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.251.39.155]) by cobalt4.source.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id EAA05503 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 04:58:11 -0700 Message-ID: <003e01c0c800$0d3eab60$0700000a@parissn2> From: "Stewart Nelson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20010418112245.218f3f10@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: Re: LF: WOLF test results, soundcard trouble Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 14:06:49 +0200 Organization: SC Group MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, Thanks for the interesting posts on frequency errors in sound cards and drivers. It appears that WOLF should use 11025 Hz, rather than 8000 Hz, as its standard sample rate. Upsampling or downsampling by a factor of 4 should pose no problems for drivers, and I would guess that hardware sample rate generators would also be accurate, limited only by the oscillator's calibration error and drift. Version 0.53 can handle 11025 Hz files on receive, but there is currently no way to set that value in the .wav header on Tx. I'll add that feature if it will be useful. Let me know what actual Tx and Rx sample rates are seen from your card at 11025 Hz nominal. Rik's idea of bypassing the card is another good solution. One alternative that already exists is the VE2IQ interface. See http://cafe.rapidus.net/bill1/bbs.htm and download SDPCX.ZIP . This is a home brew Sigma-Delta A/D which drives a serial port. Many PSK and CCW programs can use it, and it has also been used with WOLF. You can buy kits from Bill for US$54, or build your own from scratch. Sample rate is a precise 7200 Hz. Resolution is only 8 bits, but IMO that is plenty, unless the audio signal is dominated by a strong interfering carrier. If most of the audio power is random noise and/or static crashes, then even 1 bit is pretty good! Steve VK2ZTO has shown impressive results sampling this way. If you really need high resolution and linearity, there are several USB audio systems on the market. They offer up to 20 bits at 96 kHz, costing ~$150. I've never tested one, but they are popular in the "semi-pro" marketplace, so I would guess that linearity and noise is pretty good. 73, Stewart KK7KA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14415 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2001 12:08:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Apr 2001 12:08:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 20107 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2001 12:08:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 18 Apr 2001 12:08:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pqaA-0003KW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 12:57:14 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pqa6-0003KR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 12:57:10 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14pqZe-0001qD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 12:56:42 +0100 Message-ID: <17128.200104181156@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 12:56:52 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: DF0WD decoded/ External ADC/ Wolf Beacon sigs X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Based on DL4YHF's description of his BPSK TX, and measuring the frequency of the DF0WD WOLF-mode signal, I was able to re- calculate the command line parameters for WOLF, and decode the recorded signal from last Sunday as "M0BMU WD TNX 73". The power level Wolf was using produced decoding within the first frame of data, so lower power could easily be used. Rik's idea of an external ADC board for DSP software is nice - however, some interface circuitry would be needed to connect the ADC to the COM port. In practice, this interface might as well be a DSP processor, which could then pre-process the high-speed ADC data to alleviate the bottleneck caused by the COM port. Different software could be downloaded to the DSP from the PC via the COM port. In fact, the overall arrangement would be much the same as the DSP evaluation boards offered by people like Motorola, Analog Devices and Texas, the main difference would be the provision of a high accuracy clock source. It might be possible to identify an existing board which could be easily modified. I hope to run a WOLF - mode signal this evening from about 2000utc. I will start at 300mW ERP, then after an hour reduce to 30mW ERP and leave it running for a couple of hours. As before, I will transmit a carrier for a few minutes at the start of each 1/2 hour. I will transmit on 137.4400kHz for a change, in case anyone is trying to use 137.5kHz. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15999 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2001 10:27:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Apr 2001 10:27:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 16742 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2001 10:27:18 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 18 Apr 2001 10:27:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pp5x-0002iT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 11:21:57 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pp5t-0002iO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 11:21:54 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id MAA1083562 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 12:21:22 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010418112245.218f3f10@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 11:22:45 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: WOLF test results, soundcard trouble In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >The true sample rates of the soundcard were then measured by other means, >they were: > >8002.87 samples / second for the DAC (used to transmit) >7938.09 samples / second for the ADC (used to receive) One shouldn't expect too much accuracy from the soundcard ADC's. Errors up to 1% in the sampling rate won't effect their use for games etc... so why should the manufacturer make them more accurate (and expensive). I wonder if someone ever tested the linearity, the error will be likely in the same range. If we want to go more accurate we either have to calibrate each soundcard individualy (and hope that there isn't too much drifting) or go to another device. A good 16 bit ADC with 'no missing code' and a max. sample rate of 10kHz and up costs no more than a few $, even high quality 18 or 20 bit ADC's are available for 10$ or less. So the hardware isn't a real problem. Question is how to get the data from this ADC into the computer ? One way would be to make a plug-in card, but that would : - require us to open the PC and plug in a card - require to convince windows that the card is there - rule out most portable PC's Another way is tranfer the data via a port into the PC. Most suitable are either the serial port or the USB port. Advantage of the serial port is that also the older PC's have it, disadvantage is the maximum baudrate of 115kB/s (would mean a max. sample rate of +/-5.5kHz). The USB port can transfer many MB/s, but isn't available in older PC's. A well designed external ADC board could solve many of the problems that occur with the soundcard and shouldn't be too expensive. The first question is : is there a 'market' for such a device A second question : if there is a 'market', are the software developers willing to adapt their software for such a device. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5977 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2001 09:17:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 18 Apr 2001 09:17:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 4432 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2001 09:17:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 18 Apr 2001 09:17:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pnvN-0002Ek-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 10:06:57 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06lmsgate-2.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pnvB-0002Ee-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 10:06:46 +0100 Received: from d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.147]) by d06lmsgate-2.uk.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id JAA164714 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 09:50:23 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (ss2.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.67]) by d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.96) with ESMTP id KAA108478 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 10:05:44 +0100 Message-ID: <3ADD5896.D024A120@usa.net> Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 11:04:22 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: WOLF test results, soundcard trouble References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: DL4YHF@aol.com wrote: > [snip] > The precise sample rates of the soundcard, running at a nominal sample rate > of 8000 samples per second, were **DIFFERENT** for TX (D/A conversion) and RX > (A/D conversion) ! [snip] Wolf and the group, in the Windows world a new standard is emerging, the AC97 standard for sound cards. How does that affect us ? With AC97, the hardware samples *always* at the maximum sampling rate of 44.1 or maybe 48 kHz. When a program opens the sound subsystem specifying a different sampling rate, the driver does a downsampling of the 44.1 (48) kHz stream when opening for input, and an upsampling, probably with zero-padding, when opening for output. I have verified this in practice. On my IBM Thinkpad, I am able to start simultaneously several programs that use the sound card (sound chip in this case), and they work correctly even if they specify different sampling rates ! At first I didn't believe to my eyes, but then I read about the AC97 standard. The implications of this are that in the process of down/up sampling, some roundoff errors can happen, and the actual sampling rate, as seen by the application, can differ by a slight amount from what specified. For the normal use of the sound cards, i.e. games, this has no consequences. Not so for a more serious use. So the advice is to stay away, whenever possible, from sound cards whose drivers implement the AC97 standard, which, I'm afraid, is what Bill want us to use. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24872 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2001 06:56:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Apr 2001 06:56:00 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 20268 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2001 06:55:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 18 Apr 2001 06:55:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pllp-0001NC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 07:48:57 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.88]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pllk-0001N3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 07:48:52 +0100 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14pllI-000Plp-0U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 07:48:25 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 07:46:31 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: Re: LF: Weekend in Slovakia... In-reply-to: <3ADC9726.5BF78FF9@alg.demon.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 3.05 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Steve GW4ALG wrote: >As already mentioned by Jim M0BMU, OK1DTN is putting a good RST >549 signal into G. On 16/04/2001 OK1DTN peaked 559 with me at >16:00 UTC. I hope that you can QSP these reports to him during >your next QSO. Heard OK1DTN several times CQing over last weekend and was pleased to complete a short QSO at 1605 on Saturday 14th (449/229). A new country for me. 73, Tom G3OLB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16656 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2001 06:45:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Apr 2001 06:45:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 6973 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2001 06:45:37 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 18 Apr 2001 06:45:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14plbu-0001I7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 07:38:42 +0100 Received: from ns1.swh.sk ([192.108.125.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14plbq-0001I2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 07:38:38 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes [139.24.136.129]) by ns1.swh.sk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA20560 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 08:38:08 +0200 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id IAA29849 for ; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 08:38:06 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 18 Apr 2001 08:38:04 +0200 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E0225868F@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Weekend in Slovakia... Date: Wed, 18 Apr 2001 08:38:03 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Steve... Sure, I'll QSP these reports to him. He is always every weekend on the band. Best regards and I hope see you on LF... 73 de Rich OM2TW -----Original Message----- From: Steve Rawlings [mailto:steve@alg.demon.co.uk] Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 9:19 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Weekend in Slovakia... Rich OM2TW wrote: > Nice weekend again. A lot of QRN on friday and saturday. I worked > only few local stations (OM5CW, OK1DTN and HA6PC) . . . . Many thanks for the news from Slovakia. As already mentioned by Jim M0BMU, OK1DTN is putting a good RST 549 signal into G. On 16/04/2001 OK1DTN peaked 559 with me at 16:00 UTC. I hope that you can QSP these reports to him during your next QSO. Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21187 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2001 22:23:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Apr 2001 22:23:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 7205 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2001 22:23:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Apr 2001 22:23:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pdnX-0006fm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 23:18:11 +0100 Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.162]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pdnV-0006fh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 23:18:10 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.14.) id l.a7.d9bf85b (4310) for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:17:05 -0400 (EDT) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:17:05 EDT Subject: LF: WOLF test results, soundcard trouble To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Disposition: Inline X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 217 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello group,

An update on the WOLF tests on easter weekend:

During more WOLF tests (which finally resulted in a 2-way WOLF QSO) with   
DF6NM, Markus found out what was wrong:

It was the TX sample rate on my side (operating from DF0WD). Here is the
reason (..water on the mills of the DSP guys ;-) :

The precise sample rates of the soundcard, running at a nominal sample rate
of 8000 samples per second, were **DIFFERENT** for TX (D/A conversion) and RX
(A/D conversion)  !

First suspecting a bug in Spectrum Lab, I finally verified the sample rates
for "record" and "play" with Windows Sndrec32.exe. I recorded 60 seconds of a
sine wave from an audio generator, then replaying it with the same program.
An oscilloscope in X/Y mode, with X connected to the generator and Y to the
soundcard's audio output did NOT show a steady Lissajous figure (hope that's
the correct english word for it)....  the Lissajous wasn't steady so the two
input signals had different frequencies.

The true sample rates of the soundcard were then measured by other means,
they were:

8002.87 samples / second for the DAC (used to transmit)
7938.09 samples / second for the ADC (used to receive)

8002.87 is very close to the frequency Markus proposed during the test (he
transmitted this via "backup link"in PSK31 by the way). I changed the sample
rate in the "-r" argument passed to the WOLF software - et voila, immediate
copy, with the center frequency of the WOLF signal where it should be (on
137.5000 kHz).

This surprising fact occurred on a notebook with built-in soundcard (an "ES
1869 Audio Drive", whatever that is).


Conclusion

If you can receive other "reference" WOLF transmitters (like M0BMU)
perfectly, but no-one can decode your transmission, dont be fooled by the
soundcard (and don't share my fate hi). Verify the proper A/D AND the D/A
conversion rate (if you use the soundcard's output for transmission). Btw the
nasty notebook didn't cause trouble when using 11025 samples/second. I don't
know if this a common problem with soundcards.

I hope this info is useful for other software authors. If your program must
TRANSMIT something very precisely, use "individual" calibration factors for
both A/D and D/A conversions. You may use the high-resolution timer to verify
the sample rates by software, assuming the accuracy of the high-resolution
timer is better than the accuracy of the soundcard's internal clocks.

Good luck, and thanks to everyone involved. Hope to be QRV on Wednesday
evening but not sure yet.

from Wolf (DL4YHF). From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24671 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2001 19:28:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Apr 2001 19:28:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 7955 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2001 19:28:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 17 Apr 2001 19:28:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pb09-0005Sk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 20:19:01 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pazr-0005Se-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 20:18:43 +0100 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14pazP-000HYl-0A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 19:18:16 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3ADC9726.5BF78FF9@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 20:19:02 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Weekend in Slovakia... References: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E02258688@btss103a.swh.sk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rich OM2TW wrote: > Nice weekend again. A lot of QRN on friday and saturday. I worked > only few local stations (OM5CW, OK1DTN and HA6PC) . . . . Many thanks for the news from Slovakia. As already mentioned by Jim M0BMU, OK1DTN is putting a good RST 549 signal into G. On 16/04/2001 OK1DTN peaked 559 with me at 16:00 UTC. I hope that you can QSP these reports to him during your next QSO. Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20456 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2001 18:08:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 17 Apr 2001 18:08:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 28336 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2001 18:08:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Apr 2001 18:08:30 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pZoV-0004z1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 19:02:55 +0100 Received: from smtp.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.193.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pZoU-0004yw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 19:02:54 +0100 Received: from default (p1367.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.170.92]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f3HI2Nq19620 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 20:02:23 +0200 (MET DST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Message-ID: <3ADC706F.000003.16661@default> Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:33:51 +0200 (W. Europe Daylight Time) Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Mailer: IncrediMail 2001 (1400174) From: "Ko Versteeg" References: <200104161513.f3GFDZq11381@smtp.wanadoo.nl> <14pHzn-1aTyzIC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> X-Priority: 3 X-FID: FLAVOR00-NONE-0000-0000-000000000000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: UFO Qrss Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
 
 
-------Original Message-------
 
From:jannsen
Date: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 01:25:53 AM
Subject: Re: LF: UFO Qrss
 

Ko Versteeg schrieb:
>
> Received "U F O U F O" several times on 137749.27 today
> around 14:30z, Was it OG5 or OZ5 ?
> 73 de Ko, NL9222
>
>
Hi Ko,
it must have been OH5UFO also known under his other callsign OH1TN.
I made a pic of his todays transmission (LF:beacon OH5UFO). but he was on
136.8 kHz then (if I did read the rx qrg ok).
BTW. read 16.04.01 instead of 15. in the pic-notice.
vy 73
Uwe / dj8wx

Thanks Uwe,

for the info on "UFO"

73 de Ko, NL9222.
_________________________________________________
IncrediMail - Email has finally evolved - Click Here From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1462 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2001 17:52:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 17 Apr 2001 17:52:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 13393 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2001 17:51:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 17 Apr 2001 17:51:58 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pZXb-0004ri-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:45:27 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pZXX-0004rd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:45:24 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14pZX4-0007lE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:44:54 +0100 Message-ID: <18501.200104171744@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 18:45:02 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Last Weekend / Wolf Tests/ LF Forum X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Not very much time for LF activity over the weekend, but here are a few things which happened: I recorded and decoded IK5ZPV's Wolf signal at 10W level again on Thursday night. I also monitored 137.79kHz for VA3LK's Wolf beacon sigs on several occasions overnight, but nothing was detected. On Sunday morning I worked G8RW and DF0WD on CW, and called OK1DTN, who was a 549 signal with me, but no reply. On Sunday evening, I took part in some Wolf-mode tests with DF0WD. As Wolf-DL4YHF remarked, I was not able to decode these, but I still have the recordings, and from the info provided, I hope to be able to calculate the appropriate correction factors to make it work, once I have finished scratching my head! The CW talkback was quite hard work, with the evening QRN making DF0WD only R2 at times. I have been playing with some BPSK modulator circuits, and am currently putting together details for for the variable-phase modulator I tried out recently, plus also a linear BPSK exiter, which takes 137kHz carrier and logic-level BPSK signal, and generates an envelope shaped BPSK signal of a few V pk-pk for driving a linear PA. On Sunday afternoon, I heard and saw on the spectrogram screen a weak FSK - like signal centred on 137.4kHz with about 80-100Hz shift. I wonder if this was an amateur or professional signal? I am thinking of putting on some more Wolf beacon signals later on this week, say Wednesday and Thursday evenings from about 2000utc - Would anybody like specific power levels? Is 137.5kHz OK, or should I QSY? I will certainly try to make it to the LF Forum in May - I can't see any reason why I wouldn't be there at the moment. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23898 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2001 10:04:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 17 Apr 2001 10:04:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 11536 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2001 10:03:41 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Apr 2001 10:03:41 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pSBb-0001mJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 10:54:15 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pSBa-0001mE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 10:54:15 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA1003802 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 11:53:47 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010417105510.26a7ce60@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 10:55:10 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: In-Reply-To: <001001c0c64c$3aed0580$bc31893e@g3aqc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >> >> The spectra (and and block diagram of the modulator) can be found at : >> >> http://www.qsl.net/on7yd/PSK_TEST/psk_test.htm > >when I went to that page, I got a reply "page not found" > Seems to be OK by now (tuesday, 10UTC). 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23420 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2001 10:03:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 17 Apr 2001 10:03:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 11024 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2001 10:03:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Apr 2001 10:03:23 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pS9V-0001m4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 10:52:05 +0100 Received: from mail.sitestar.net ([205.160.234.10] helo=mail.neocom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pS9N-0001ly-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 10:51:58 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from sitestar.net (reston-gnap-ip-216013-196.dynamic.ziplink.net [216.8.13.196]) by mail.neocom.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f3H9pLn13726 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 05:51:21 -0400 Message-ID: <3ADC1315.2AAC5123@sitestar.net> Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 05:55:33 -0400 From: "Rye Gewalt" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: DFCW, an idea. References: <001001c0c64c$3aed0580$bc31893e@g3aqc> Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Great Idea, I have been thinking along the same lines.  There are programs that allow the PC clock to be set within about a second to National Standards using the internet.  The PC clock could be set at the start of a transmission and then there could be a window within the bauds to do the FFT(s)  --- drop a couple of seconds on each end of the baud.  I am a great fan of signal averaging.

I'll try to find the software for synchronizing the PC clock with our Naval Observatory and send you a link.  It's pretty nice and even tells how far your clock was off prior to calibration.  There is some magic I don't understand about the network delays, but apparently they have that pretty well solved.

Regards
Rye

Laurie Mayhead wrote:

Hi all,I am very keen on exploiting DFCW to its limit (after all its easy to implement) but it still needs to be speeded up. Because of the lack of timing of the FFT bins they tend to become blurred and it is neccessary to leave large gaps between elements of a character with consequent waste of time.This is even more true with QRSS. With DFCW the frequency change between dots and dashes adequately separates them. Currently on T/A tests I have been using a 50 sec. period, 30 secs constitutes the transmitted element and 20 secs the gap ! What a waste of time. Looking at the signal on my monitor (also see Uwe's pics,thanks Uwe) these gaps are still poorly defined. I have thought about synchronising the Tx and Rx using some form of universal time signal but 1) this might be thought as cheatingand 2) the path variations, phase changes etc would be a problem. So my point is WHY BOTHER ! would it not still be possible to read the message without these gaps (they are hardly there anyway). For A to Z there is not much of a problem since there are only two adjacent elements ie 2 dots or two dashes, except for JO S H .But the numbers are a bigger problem. Anyway, crazy perhaps but any ideas ?   73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7968 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2001 09:36:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Apr 2001 09:36:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 11 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2001 09:36:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Apr 2001 09:36:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pRnf-0001ep-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 10:29:31 +0100 Received: from cobalt4.source.net ([206.100.10.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pRne-0001ek-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 10:29:30 +0100 Received: from parissn2 (AMontsouris-101-1-2-155.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.251.39.155]) by cobalt4.source.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id CAA13767 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 02:28:58 -0700 Message-ID: <004b01c0c722$0a4d56b0$0700000a@parissn2> From: "Stewart Nelson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20010417085847.2c8f50ea@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: Re: LF: WOLF bandwidth suggestions Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 11:37:36 +0200 Organization: SC Group MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Rik and all, The real loss is indeed worse than 0.8 dB, but is extremely unlikely to come anywhere near 3 dB. That's because the message data is interleaved with a pseudo-random stream which is known to contain 240 zeros and 240 ones. Also, one message bit affects more than 40 coded bits. If you flip 40 coins, the chance of getting say, fewer than 10 heads is only about 1 in 3000. The WOLF web site gives the degradation for '-t 1' as 1.5 dB, which I believe is conservative. 73, Stewart KK7KA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rik Strobbe" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 8:58 AM Subject: Re: LF: WOLF bandwidth suggestions > Hi Marcus & group, > > >1. WOLF is using cosine-shaped zero-crossings with a risetime of only 5 ms, > >which causes a few extra sidebands on each side of the spectrum. I'd prefer > >to extend the cosine-envelope to the full symbol duration (like in PSK31), > >then ideally only the 10 Hz wide main spectral lobe would persist. At a > given > >PEP level and with 50% phase transitions, on average we'd lose only 0.8 dB > >SNR while saving 24% transmitted energy. > > You are right about the average value, but for a '0101' sequence the signal > will be 3dB down. And as it is of very little use if you can decode > sequences like '111000111' but you cannot decode a '010101010' sequence I > believe that that the effective loss of SNR is 3dB, even if the average > power is only 0.8dB down. > > 73, Rik ON7YD > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19003 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2001 09:22:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Apr 2001 09:22:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 21278 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2001 09:22:40 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 17 Apr 2001 09:22:40 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pRae-0001Yj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 10:16:04 +0100 Received: from ns1.swh.sk ([192.108.125.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pRaZ-0001Ye-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 10:16:00 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes [139.24.136.129]) by ns1.swh.sk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA21357 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 11:15:29 +0200 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA22407 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 11:15:28 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 11:15:24 +0200 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E02258688@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: Weekend in Slovakia... Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 11:15:24 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi LF-ers... Nice weekend again. A lot of QRN on friday and saturday. I worked only few local stations (OM5CW, OK1DTN and HA6PC) and Laurie G3AQC on QRSS for the first time. My friend Otti OM5CW did his firsts QSOs with HA6PC and OK1DTN. Best regards and I hope see you on LF... 73 de Rich OM2TW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12761 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2001 09:04:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 17 Apr 2001 09:04:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 25659 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2001 09:04:25 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 17 Apr 2001 09:04:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pRIv-0001Qv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 09:57:45 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pRIs-0001Qp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 09:57:42 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA390720 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 10:57:13 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010417095837.2197dc50@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 09:58:37 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: DFCW, an idea. In-reply-to: <001001c0c64c$3aed0580$bc31893e@g3aqc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Laurie & group, >I have thought about synchronising the Tx and Rx using some form of universal >time signal but 1) this might be thought as cheating and 2) the path >variations, phase changes etc would be a problem. So my point is WHY BOTHER ! >would it not still be possible to read the message without these gaps (they are >hardly there anyway). My suggestion is to use 'time synchronzed' QRSS or DFCW. Whith 'time synchronized' I mean that any dot/dash will start at a known time (eg. if you use 60 seconds dots a dot/dash will always start at the full minute, for 30 seconds dots it would be at the full minute of the half minute. This requires sufficient accurate timing at TX and RX side. But at dotlengths of 30 seconds upwards (as used in TA tests) a 1 second accuracy would be sufficient, and this can be achieved by setting the PC clock manualy with teh radio-signal clock (eg DFC77) as reference. What would be the advantages : 1. No more needs for gaps, even the 5, H, 0 etc can be copied without doubt 2. No more need for 'over-FFT-ing' at the RX software : Software as ARGO is taking FFT's at a rate of several per second while in principle only 1 FFT per dot is sufficient, provided the FFT bin contains exact 1 dot (or space). Maybe the 'calculating power' of the PC can be used to analyze this one FFT instead of making many FFT's of the same dot. I refer to DF4YHF's software (Spectrum Lab) where one can manualy change the 'reference level' and 'dynamic range'. I found that this can be very usefull to 'dig in the noise'. Based on this experience I believe that some kind of 'intelligent AGC' (that controls reference level and AGC) can improve SNR. Regarding 'cheating' : making skeds with very accurate arrangements of the transmitting periodes is common practice for EME, MS etc... so I don't think that this will be a problem on LF. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29075 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2001 08:53:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 17 Apr 2001 08:53:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 8489 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2001 08:52:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 17 Apr 2001 08:52:53 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pR2G-0001Fw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 09:40:32 +0100 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pR25-0001Fq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 09:40:21 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14pR1d-0005ut-0A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 08:39:54 +0000 Message-ID: <3ADC015D.4BE712B8@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 09:39:57 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Weekend Report, 13-16/04/2001 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, I was pleased to hear so much activity on 136 kHz over this past Easter weekend. Family get-togethers and jobs around the house meant that I did more occasional listening than operating, but there were only a few times when I tuned around and did not hear at least one station on the band. My thanks to Alan for another 'Cluster' report (keep 'em coming, Alan, but sorry to hear about the QRM at your QTH). My new loading coil is working fine. The combination of 4 mm plugs/sockets throughout, plus the calibrated variometer (in degrees of rotation) means that it is very easy to adjust when selecting different antenna configurations. The slightly higher Q of the new coil means that the SWR bridge shows more variation when using the balloon-supported antenna, but the pair of 572Bs in the PA don't seem to mind at all! Good signals were heard again from OK1DTN on many occasions, but he could not hear my calls - so another 'gotaway'. Anyway, stations worked from here were: Sunday, 13th April ------------------ G3YMC - 141 km (sent 559, received 589) G4CNN - 122 km (569, 599) G8RW - 192 km (569, 569) G3OLB - 97 km (599, 599) DJ9IE - 704 km (579, 5 5/6 9) Monday, 16th April ------------------ G8IK - 101 km (589, 599) DL3FDO - 828 km (549, 439) PA0BWL - 568 km (569, 569) G8TB - 183 km (559, 579) G0AKY - 237 km (579, 579) GW4HXO - 174 km (599, 599) And many thanks to Fred G4SPR - Cumbria (who has recently re-joined this Reflector) for his telephoned report on my signals. My thanks also to Ted in Bridgend, another newcomer to the Reflector, for his written report. Ted is working on getting his 50 ft wire tuned for receive operation using the G3OLB approach (with some series inductance, including a ferrite rod partially inserted in an old longwave coil to do the final tweaking). How's it going, Ted? Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19870 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2001 08:34:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Apr 2001 08:34:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 12543 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2001 08:33:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 17 Apr 2001 08:33:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pQpU-0001EF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 09:27:20 +0100 Received: from mail1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.18]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pQpQ-0001EA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 09:27:16 +0100 Received: from modem-106.longnose-hawk.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.38.106] helo=g3aqc) by mail1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14pQox-0004km-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 09:26:48 +0100 Message-ID: <000601c0c70f$bf29d300$6a26893e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. Beacon Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 07:56:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi Dex and John,
Went to bed very early last night so did'nt see your messages until this morning so no X'mission last night. I fear conditions are very disturbed but will try again if you are going to be about.
73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7546 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2001 08:07:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 17 Apr 2001 08:07:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 20089 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2001 08:07:09 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 17 Apr 2001 08:07:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pQN0-000111-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 08:57:54 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pQMw-00010w-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 08:57:50 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA935310 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 09:57:23 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010417085847.2c8f50ea@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 08:58:47 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: WOLF bandwidth suggestions In-reply-to: <63.14878f3e.28088e1e@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Marcus & group, >1. WOLF is using cosine-shaped zero-crossings with a risetime of only 5 ms, >which causes a few extra sidebands on each side of the spectrum. I'd prefer >to extend the cosine-envelope to the full symbol duration (like in PSK31), >then ideally only the 10 Hz wide main spectral lobe would persist. At a given >PEP level and with 50% phase transitions, on average we'd lose only 0.8 dB >SNR while saving 24% transmitted energy. You are right about the average value, but for a '0101' sequence the signal will be 3dB down. And as it is of very little use if you can decode sequences like '111000111' but you cannot decode a '010101010' sequence I believe that that the effective loss of SNR is 3dB, even if the average power is only 0.8dB down. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22288 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 23:10:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 23:10:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 22713 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 23:10:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 23:10:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pI0X-0006IM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 00:02:09 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout00.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pI0W-0006IG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 00:02:08 +0100 Received: from fwd05.aul.t-online.de by mailout00.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14pI01-0001sq-00; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 01:01:37 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.227.109.137]) by fwd05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14pHzn-1aTyzIC; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 01:01:23 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200104161513.f3GFDZq11381@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Subject: Re: LF: UFO Qrss X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 01:01:23 +0200 Message-ID: <14pHzn-1aTyzIC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Ko Versteeg schrieb: > > Received "U F O U F O" several times on 137749.27 today > around 14:30z, Was it OG5 or OZ5 ? > 73 de Ko, NL9222 > > Hi Ko, it must have been OH5UFO also known under his other callsign OH1TN. I made a pic of his todays transmission (LF:beacon OH5UFO). but he was on 136.8 kHz then (if I did read the rx qrg ok). BTW. read 16.04.01 instead of 15. in the pic-notice. vy 73 Uwe / dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 111 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 22:42:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 22:42:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 3481 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 22:42:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 22:42:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pHaa-00061T-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 23:35:20 +0100 Received: from mailout02.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.17]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pHaY-00061O-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 23:35:18 +0100 Received: from fwd02.aul.t-online.de by mailout02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14pHZt-00084Z-03; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 00:34:37 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.227.109.90]) by fwd02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14pHZm-1kIWDgC; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 00:34:30 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <96.12e87f91.280c22f6@aol.com> Subject: LF:beacon OH5UFO X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------070600070606050604000708" Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 00:34:30 +0200 Message-ID: <14pHZm-1kIWDgC@fwd02.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070600070606050604000708 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Reno, got a pic of ur todays transmission (enclosed). pse add: 18dB btwn rx and ant. regards Uwe/dj8wx jo43sv --------------070600070606050604000708 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="UFO1.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="UFO1.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEBLAEsAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRof Hh0aHBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwh MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAAR CACkAnYDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA AgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkK FhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWG h4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl 5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEAAwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREA AgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSExBhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYk NOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElKU1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOE 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RQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUA FFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRR RQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUA FFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRR RQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUA FFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRR RQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUA FFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRR RQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUA FFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRR RQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUA FFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRR RQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUA FFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRR RQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUA FFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRR RQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUA FFFFABRRRQB//9k= --------------070600070606050604000708-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8765 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 22:18:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 22:18:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 15239 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 22:18:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 22:18:04 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pHE2-0005uv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 23:12:02 +0100 Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pHE1-0005up-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 23:12:01 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.90.60]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 19:10:25 -0300 Message-ID: <3ADBA6E7.F7BC395F@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 22:13:59 -0400 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: lf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all saw nil last nite you were right Laurie . When will yoy tx agn? 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20563 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 21:57:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 21:57:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 27955 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 21:57:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 21:57:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pGuP-0005jE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 22:51:45 +0100 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pGuN-0005j9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 22:51:43 +0100 Received: from steve (ppp166.dyn154.pacific.net.au [210.23.154.166]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA19087 for ; Tue, 17 Apr 2001 07:51:11 +1000 Message-ID: <004d01c0c6bf$6afea3a0$0301a8c0@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <63.14878f3e.28088e1e@aol.com> <003e01c0c53a$29315d90$0700000a@parissn2> <005301c0c614$19889180$0301a8c0@steve> <007f01c0c683$5af3b3b0$0700000a@parissn2> Subject: LF: Re: [TECH] WOLF, FDK, AFK, etc. Date: Tue, 17 Apr 2001 07:51:31 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: Stewart Nelson To: Sent: Tuesday, April 17, 2001 12:41 AM Subject: LF: [TECH] WOLF, FDK, AFK, etc. > Hi Steve and all, > > Sorry that some statements on my WOLF page might be misleading. > OK > > You are also correct that in the special case of dual tones symmetrically > located about the carrier frequency, in the absence of filtering, the penalty > can be avoided. > OK > > However, I don't think that this is particularly interesting, > because if the number of frequency differences is small (2 or 4), the signal > is very similar to WOLF (BPSK with some redundancy added to aid tracking). > As FDK came well before WOLF I would prefer you said "WOLF is very similar to FDK" :-) Just joking :-) But either way, this can be misleading as WOLF is, as you say, the well known BPSK mode with extra redundancy for tracking. FDK is only similar to BPSK in terms of a possible way it can be generated. Its spectrum over a 60 second epoch (the initial character duration for now) looks identical to a two tone SSB test signal (assuming linear) and bears no resemblance to BPSK. > > If it's large, e.g. a pair for each letter of the alphabet, I don't see a > good way to track the signal when it is very weak. > If I understand correctly, you use a tracking tone which doesn't actually transmit character data. So although it does transmit information (tracking frequency), so ultimately does have a beneficial effect on S/N. What is the loss and what is the gain for this method ? > > Your web page doesn't have any information on how such tracking might be accomplished >So, IMO, although a strong FDK signal can be received without the need for good > frequency accuracy, in the weak signal case it has needless complexity with no real benefit. > Essentially the same as WOLF, the difference being that the tracking is inherent in the signal which transmits character data. In FDK (or Wanjina as I now call it to try and hose down the confusion with DFCW / VFSKCW) the two tones are there during the 60 second character duration. By taking the mid-frequency of the tones you get the tracking frequency. This is used to improve the S/N during detection. FDK doesn't waste time/energy by transmitting a separate tracking tone. I can't see that this is any worse than WOLF. > > That brings us around to AFK (known in the literature as m-ary FSK), which > is IMO the technically best system for weak signal LF. I will admit that > BPSK was chosen for WOLF, for the simple reason that many LowFERs already had > the ability to transmit it, and it would be relatively easy for others to > gain the capability. Like almost everything else in engineering, it was > an economic tradeoff. > Understood. But I can't help thinking that if you took your own advice you wouldn't have started on WOLF and not achieved the excellent results you have !!! :-) Just goes to show that there is a time for theory, but reality has the final word :-) > > But I really believe that if it is possible to complete a transatlantic LF > QSO in one hour, with a signal that is about 1 Hz wide, AFK is the way to go. > Agreed > The main problem is that it can presently only be generated with an HF SSB > transceiver feeding an LF transverter, plus taking special measures to ensure > excellent stability. > > So IMO the real challenge for AFK is to develop a very simple exciter > which can generate this format, as well as others. An exciter is fairly easy I would have thought. As we have two channels available from our soundcard it is a trivial task to generate two identical tones in quadrature. Feeding this into a mixer fed with quadrature RF signals allows generation of AFK via the Third Method. All pretty standard stuff for Hams. An even simpler method might be via the Fourth Method. I just wish I had more time !!!!! A final note. I repeat my congratulations on your success with WOLF. The comments here and previously are not meant as criticism. I know how hard it is to keep everything consistent as things and ideas develop over time. 73s Steve Olney (VK2ZTO/AXSO - QF56IK : Lat -33 34 07, Long +150 44 40) ============================================= HomePage URLs: http://www.qsl.net/vk2zto http://www.zeta.org.au/~ollaneg Containing:- ULF, ELF, VLF & LF Experimentation InfraSonic Experimentation Laser Comms DX Amateur Radio Astronomy ============================================= From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2665 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 21:09:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 21:09:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 20096 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 21:09:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 21:09:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pG9j-0005SC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 22:03:31 +0100 Received: from mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.47]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pG9i-0005S7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 22:03:30 +0100 Received: from att.net ([12.77.61.95]) by mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20010416210259.BBJB4491.mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net@att.net> for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 21:02:59 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3ADB5AE5.2CBCF908@att.net> Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 16:49:41 -0400 From: "dexter mcintyre" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Anyone transmitting LF tonight? References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Looks like the QRN in the US will be lower tonight than it has been for the past month. Anyone transmitting for TA reception? dex From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11404 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 20:43:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 20:43:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 28562 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 20:43:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 20:43:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pFiv-0005F6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 21:35:49 +0100 Received: from postfix1-2.free.fr ([213.228.0.130]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pFiu-0005F1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 21:35:48 +0100 Received: from f5maf (nas-cbv-2-22-30.dial.proxad.net [213.228.22.30]) by postfix1-2.free.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 7862B102A69 for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 22:35:20 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000f01c0c6b4$e819ed00$1e16e4d5@f5maf> From: "f5maf" To: "VLF Group" Subject: LF: QRSS Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 22:35:44 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: OK Geri at tomorrow. I added a print sceen of the DK8KW on my website, you can see : Two lines (LORAN?) and an other signal with a shift? I don t know what is it! www.qsl.net/f5maf/log.htm And my new antenna www.qsl.net/f5maf/antennes.htm 73 Marc F5MAF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4985 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 20:36:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 20:36:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 23350 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 20:35:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 20:35:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pFdB-0005ET-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 21:29:53 +0100 Received: from imo-r20.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.162]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pFd9-0005Ac-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 21:29:52 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-r20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.14.) id l.b9.d3282cb (3995) for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 16:28:50 -0400 (EDT) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 16:28:50 EDT Subject: LF: 137689.6 Hz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 70 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi John and all, unlike Loran, those DCF42/49 intermodulation frequencies do not spread all over the band. I have observed discrete lines only in the region 135.48 to 135.61 kHz, which corresponds to n = 0...5 in the formula (136547.5 +- n * 11.42) Hz, plus a fair bit of broadband noise below 136.7 kHz. Also, here at 160km they are constant to within a dB or so, whereas 137689.6 fades from typically -8 dBuV/m right down to invisibility. Wonder what corner of the globe it actually comes from... 73 de Markus, DF6NM > The line reported at 137689.6 would fit: > 2*f(DCF49) - (fp-fd) +- n(fd/104), with n = 204 to within 0.3Hz, > according to the formula you supplied to me at the end of last year. > It is not a Loran line. > 73 John, G4CNN From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4038 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 19:30:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 19:30:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 4271 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 19:30:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 19:30:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pEbb-0004nq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 20:24:11 +0100 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pEba-0004nl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 20:24:10 +0100 Received: from [62.7.56.72] (helo=default) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14pEb6-0001r7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 20:23:43 +0100 Message-ID: <000901c0c6aa$72d251e0$4838073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots for 14/16 April at GB7DXM Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 20:16:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, with wall to wall old films on TV and cold dull weather, the qrm from TV SMPSUs has not made listening enjoyable this weekend. Unfortunately it seems to be getting worse, and I have a fairly stable QRM source now which has decided to stabilise in the middle of the band. Hence just the list from the Cluster this week. 137.5 DF0WD 16-Apr-2001 1740Z psk31 137.5 DF6NM 16-Apr-2001 1736Z psk31 136.6 OK1DTN 16-Apr-2001 1549Z cq 136.5 OK1DTN 16-Apr-2001 1541Z 136.5 SM6CRE 16-Apr-2001 1021Z QRV again with new 137.7 DK8KW 16-Apr-2001 0855Z clg F5MAF 136.8 DJ7RD 16-Apr-2001 0758Z 136.8 GW4ALG 16-Apr-2001 0745Z 136.5 M0BMU 15-Apr-2001 1100Z in qso with df0wd 136.5 OM2TW 15-Apr-2001 1046Z cq 136.5 HA6PC 15-Apr-2001 1030Z just working OM5CW 137.0 OK1DTN 15-Apr-2001 1003Z 136.3 OK1DTN 15-Apr-2001 1003Z now again CQ...& up OM2TW cq 136.7 DF0WD 15-Apr-2001 0957Z in qso with dj6fu 136.7 DJ6FU 15-Apr-2001 0957Z 136.7 DL3FDO 15-Apr-2001 0944Z cq 136.6 DF0WD 15-Apr-2001 0921Z 137.7 G3AQC 15-Apr-2001 0911Z qrss clg f5maf 136.4 OK1DTN 15-Apr-2001 0855Z cq 137.7 DK8KW 15-Apr-2001 0752Z qrss 137.7 OM2TW 15-Apr-2001 0742Z cq qrss 137.7 OM2TW 15-Apr-2001 0743Z cq qrss 136.4 DK5PT 14-Apr-2001 1918Z in qso with dj7rd 136.5 DJ7RD 14-Apr-2001 1906Z cq 136.5 OM5CW 14-Apr-2001 1648Z in qso with ok1dtn 137.7 OM2TW 14-Apr-2001 1643Z qrss 137.6 OK1DTN 14-Apr-2001 1641Z 136.7 DL3FDO 14-Apr-2001 1641Z 136.7 DK5PT 14-Apr-2001 1640Z 136.5 OK1DTN 14-Apr-2001 1529Z 137.7 OM2TW 14-Apr-2001 1438Z 136.6 DL3FDO 14-Apr-2001 1407Z qrz 137.7 OM2TW 14-Apr-2001 1055Z cq qrss 136.6 OM5CW 14-Apr-2001 0724Z cq 136.5 OM2TW 14-Apr-2001 0645Z 136.8 GW4ALG 13-Apr-2001 2037Z cqcq nr,Ffm vy weak 137.7 I5TGC 13-Apr-2001 1646Z cq 136.7 DL3FDO 13-Apr-2001 0951Z are you still calling ? 136.6 G3AQC 13-Apr-2001 0951Z cq 136.7 DL3FDO 13-Apr-2001 0932Z cq G3NYK de GB7MRS 16-Apr-2001 1903Z > Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25476 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 18:19:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 18:19:45 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 12431 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 18:19:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 18:19:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pDVF-0004Mj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 19:13:33 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.91]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pDVE-0004Me-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 19:13:32 +0100 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14pDUn-0006pN-0X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 19:13:05 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 07:49:46 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: Re: LF: Re: LF Forum In-reply-to: <003201c0c4c7$16c63b80$099901d4@g4jnt> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 3.05 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andy and co. I intend to be there. Talk in for mobiles on 136? 73, Tom G3OLB >Although the planned forum still several weeks off, it would be helpful to >get an idea of how many people are going to be there. >Who is intending to come along ? > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24505 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 18:01:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 18:01:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 29602 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 18:01:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 18:01:45 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pDDX-0004Ey-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 18:55:15 +0100 Received: from hs-img-4.compuserve.com ([149.174.177.149] helo=sphmgaad.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pDDW-0004Et-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 18:55:14 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by sphmgaad.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id NAA11430 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 13:54:36 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 13:54:15 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Re: Who was it? DK8KW! To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200104161354_MC2-CC98-8E4C@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Marc, >Ok Geri, >It had seem that you wrote QSB?? > >Perhaps this evening? >22:00 local for a new sked? >Just under your signal an other signal? >I'll test ARGO for new reception. > >73 Marc >F5MAF< 22.00 is a little bit early since I am playing with my band tonight (see also http://www.piperswine.de -hi-). How about tomorrow evening 22.00, and we test 10 seconds with ARGO. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14024 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 16:43:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 16:43:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 1126 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 16:43:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 16:43:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pBzI-0003le-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 17:36:28 +0100 Received: from bucky-rwcmex.excite.com ([198.3.99.218] helo=bucky.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pBzH-0003lZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 17:36:27 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from swirly ([199.172.153.107]) by bucky.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010416163528.WISR25251.bucky.excite.com@swirly> for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 09:35:28 -0700 Message-ID: <31566162.987438928717.JavaMail.imail@swirly> Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 09:35:12 -0700 (PDT) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: F5MAG, Wolf et al MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 62.253.64.5 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Markus, The line reported at 137689.6 would fit: 2*f(DCF49) - (fp-fd) +- n(fd/104), with n = 204 to within 0.3Hz, according to the formula you supplied to me at the end of last year. It is not a Loran line. 73 John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15237 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 15:20:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 15:20:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 5380 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 15:19:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 15:19:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pAhb-0003Ip-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 16:14:07 +0100 Received: from smtp.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.193.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pAhY-0003Ik-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 16:14:04 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from default (p603.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.201.131]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f3GFDZq11381 for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 17:13:36 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <200104161513.f3GFDZq11381@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 17:11:53 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: UFO Qrss X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Received "U F O U F O" several times on 137749.27 today around 14:30z, Was it OG5 or OZ5 ? 73 de Ko, NL9222 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11526 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 14:47:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 14:47:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 12615 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 14:47:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 14:47:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pABL-00031i-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 15:40:47 +0100 Received: from postfix1-2.free.fr ([213.228.0.130]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pABK-00031d-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 15:40:46 +0100 Received: from f5maf (nas-cbv-1-6-111.dial.proxad.net [213.228.6.111]) by postfix1-2.free.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 329FD102A14 for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 16:40:19 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001601c0c683$4fb8cb20$6026e4d5@f5maf> From: "f5maf" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200104160852_MC2-CC84-BCD0@compuserve.com> Subject: LF: Re: Who was it? DK8KW! Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 16:39:38 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Ok Geri, It had seem that you wrote QSB?? Perhaps this evening? 22:00 local for a new sked? Just under your signal an other signal? I'll test ARGO for new reception. 73 Marc F5MAF ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW To: Sent: Monday, April 16, 2001 2:51 PM Subject: LF: Who was it? DK8KW! Hello Marc, I called you several times this morning, your signal was between "M" and "T". Anyhow, thanks for the picture, it gives me an idea about how you received me. What you can see is "MAF DK .." and the first three dashes of "8". Never mind, we will give it another try soon. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17136 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 14:44:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 14:44:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 10588 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 14:44:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 14:44:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pA4R-00030y-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 15:33:39 +0100 Received: from cobalt4.source.net ([206.100.10.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14pA4P-00030t-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 15:33:38 +0100 Received: from parissn2 (AMontsouris-101-1-2-155.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.251.39.155]) by cobalt4.source.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA08735 for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 07:33:08 -0700 Message-ID: <007f01c0c683$5af3b3b0$0700000a@parissn2> From: "Stewart Nelson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <63.14878f3e.28088e1e@aol.com> <003e01c0c53a$29315d90$0700000a@parissn2> <005301c0c614$19889180$0301a8c0@steve> Subject: LF: [TECH] WOLF, FDK, AFK, etc. Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 16:41:41 +0200 Organization: SC Group MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Steve and all, Sorry that some statements on my WOLF page might be misleading. Speaking about "multitone FSK", I meant COFDM (coded orthogonal frequency division multiplexing), and similar systems where the simultaneous tones are independently controlled. In comparison with conventional FSK, m-ary FSK, MSK, OQPSK, and other constant-envelope forms of FM, I believe that the penalty I described is accurate. You are correct, of course, in observing that PSK also has a penalty, if it is filtered to keep the bandwidth requirement reasonable. I never stated that there was none, but that might have been implied by the initial absence of information about it. I did not omit this information to make what I was "selling" look good, it was because early versions of WOLF did not offer any filtering! When the envelope shaping was added, information about signal loss was duly included. However, because it is described on a different section of the page, it might still be taken as misleading. The "multitone" section has now been updated for additional clarity. You are also correct that in the special case of dual tones symmetrically located about the carrier frequency, in the absence of filtering, the penalty can be avoided. However, I don't think that this is particularly interesting, because if the number of frequency differences is small (2 or 4), the signal is very similar to WOLF (BPSK with some redundancy added to aid tracking). If it's large, e.g. a pair for each letter of the alphabet, I don't see a good way to track the signal when it is very weak. Your web page doesn't have any information on how such tracking might be accomplished. So, IMO, although a strong FDK signal can be received without the need for good frequency accuracy, in the weak signal case it has needless complexity with no real benefit. That brings us around to AFK (known in the literature as m-ary FSK), which is IMO the technically best system for weak signal LF. I will admit that BPSK was chosen for WOLF, for the simple reason that many LowFERs already had the ability to transmit it, and it would be relatively easy for others to gain the capability. Like almost everything else in engineering, it was an economic tradeoff. But I really believe that if it is possible to complete a transatlantic LF QSO in one hour, with a signal that is about 1 Hz wide, AFK is the way to go. The main problem is that it can presently only be generated with an HF SSB transceiver feeding an LF transverter, plus taking special measures to ensure excellent stability. There are very few stations with this capability. Some have suggested that dynamically reprogramming a DDS would work, but it would be very difficult to maintain the phase coherency required for good performance. So IMO the real challenge for AFK is to develop a very simple exciter which can generate this format, as well as others. I have some ideas on the subject, and would be glad to start a discussion, if any are interested. 73, Stewart KK7KA > There is just one thing I don't understand on the site:- > > start quote :- > > "Multitone FSK, etc. > I believe that sending multiple tones at once is not suitable for > weak-signal LF work. Virtually all PA's in use are limited by PEP (rather > than thermally). Therefore, sending two tones requires that each be 6 dB > below the level permitted for a single tone, to avoid clipping the envelope. > Compared with sending the tones sequentially, there is a still a 3 dB loss, > even after allowing for the longer durations. " > > end quote :- > > The thing I don't understand is how did you manage to create a BPSK signal > (which I understand WOLF is) without creating two symmetrical sidebands ??? > I thought if you generated a BPSK signal at some rate it would create at > least one pair of sidebands (two tones). All my simulations do this. > How did you manage to eliminate the two tones ? > > The second thing I don't understand is that you say there is a 6dB penalty. > This is true for linear systems. However, one of the recommended methods > for WOLF (apparently widely used} is to use a XOR gate phase switcher. > Using this scheme the penalty is 3.92dB, not 6dB. Taking into account the > longer durations (which you correctly identify gives 3dB gain) the penalty > is only 0.92dB compared to a single tone. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21255 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 12:59:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 12:59:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 8781 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 12:59:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 12:59:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14p8VA-0002M3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 13:53:08 +0100 Received: from ds-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.134] helo=spdmgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14p8V8-0002Ls-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 13:53:07 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id IAA08871 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 08:52:08 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 08:51:51 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Who was it? DK8KW! To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200104160852_MC2-CC84-BCD0@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Marc, I called you several times this morning, your signal was between "M" and "T". Anyhow, thanks for the picture, it gives me an idea about how you received me. What you can see is "MAF DK .." and the first three dashes of "8". Never mind, we will give it another try soon. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13358 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 12:55:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 12:55:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 2467 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 12:55:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 12:55:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14p8Rv-0002L7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 13:49:47 +0100 Received: from postfix1-2.free.fr ([213.228.0.130]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14p8Ru-0002L2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 13:49:47 +0100 Received: from f5maf (unknown [213.228.56.103]) by postfix1-2.free.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id A4A4B102A1D for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 14:49:18 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <009301c0c673$cd4713e0$7607e4d5@f5maf> From: "f5maf" To: "VLF Group" Subject: LF: Litz Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 14:49:01 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I m looking for Litz wire for coil antenna (1.5 mH). At the moment I m using 0.4 mm² idem for my variometer. (Big coil at the antenna base using 2.5mm²). I have 2.5A courant. Where can I buy it? 73 Marc F5MAF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16843 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 12:22:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 12:22:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 9759 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 12:22:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 12:22:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14p7vc-00028E-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 13:16:24 +0100 Received: from postfix1-2.free.fr ([213.228.0.130]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14p7vb-000289-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 13:16:23 +0100 Received: from f5maf (nas-cbv-1-47-40.dial.proxad.net [213.228.47.40]) by postfix1-2.free.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id D82AC102A17 for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 14:15:52 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <004a01c0c66f$21ae1460$7607e4d5@f5maf> From: "f5maf" To: "VLF Group" Subject: LF: Who was it? Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 14:16:17 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------020905050308050608030706" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020905050308050608030706 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit This morning I sent on 137.6764 (11:.30 local) and some one answered me. I sent T T T but I didn' t know who he was! I attach a file . Thank Ko for your report. 73 Marc F5MAF JN03PP TOULOUSE --------------020905050308050608030706 Content-Type: application/octet-stream; name="Qrss.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: attachment; filename="Qrss.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEASgBKAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRof Hh0aHBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwh MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAAR CAAeATgDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA AgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkK FhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWG h4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl 5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEAAwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREA AgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSExBhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYk NOEl8RcYGRomJygpKjU2Nzg5OkNERUZHSElKU1RVVldYWVpjZGVmZ2hpanN0dXZ3eHl6goOE 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(212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 10:41:51 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14p6Eo-0001WX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 11:28:06 +0100 Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.7]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14p6Ek-0001WQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 11:28:02 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.14.) id l.96.12e87f91 (3855) for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 06:27:02 -0400 (EDT) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <96.12e87f91.280c22f6@aol.com> Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 06:27:02 EDT Subject: LF: WOLF Test results from DF0WD To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Disposition: Inline X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 217 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Jim, Markus, and group,

Some on-air testing of Stewart's implementation of WOLF took place on sunday
evening, which was partly successful (tnx Markus, DF6NM and Jim, M0BMU for
their patience and to Stewart, KK7KA for the new software).

Here is the new setup used at DF0WD:
- An LF-transverter which was once intended to be a linear transverter
  (until I blew the first set of matched MOSFETS a few months ago).
  Transverter mixes 10.136MHz down to 136kHz and vice versa.
- An oven-controlled 10MHz XO which feeds the transverter
   and synchronizes the 30MHz 'master' oscillator inside the IC706
- An old IC706 shortwave TRX, slightly modified
 (30MHz clock 'voltage controlled').
- WOLF signal taken from soundcard, fed to IC706 in USB mode
 (to test amplitude shaping of new WOLF software by KK7KA).
- TX output power about 10 Watts (a little more later with "rough keying")
- Antenna 200m horizontal wire (no straight line), end fed,
  about 8..10 meters above ground.
  EIRP once estimated by PA0SE about 80mW with max. drive,
  depending on WX (see www.qsl.net/dl4yhf/lf_index.html).

I received the WOLF signal with the IC706 in "CW" at (10MHz+)137.500, using a
the narrow CW filter.
To transmit, the IC706 runs in "USB" at (10MHz+)135.500. The audio frequency
should have been 2000.000 Hz, so the transmitted WOLF carrier should have
been on 137.500 kHz (but it wasn't, see below). The soundcard's A/D
conversion rate was once measured as 7938.086, this value was passed to WOLF
as command line argument (because this is quite 'far off', I will verify it
later with the 10MHz-ref divided down to audio freq. Thanks Markus for the
point).

To Jim, M0BMU: The "test carrier" was transmitted "CW", so it was not
generated the same way as the WOLF signal. This may explain the problem.. I
don't know how you generated the "leading carrier" before your WOLF
transmissions a few weeks ago.

One intention for the test was to compare the new 'amplitude shaped' WOLF
signal. I found that with the amplifier currently use here, I can not
generate such a 'crystal clean' WOLF spectrum like the one shown on Stewart's
updated WOLF page (http://www.scgroup.com/ham/wolf.html).

It seems that each MOSFET (IRF540) in the PA needs an indivudual carefully
adjusted bias point, and a little more source resistance (as negative
feedback) to make the small PA work linear. Each FET carries a different
current, especially when the driving power is very low. Result: the damn
thing looks like a linear when the power is 10%...70% of the output, but it
does not behave linear when drive is less than 10% (because of different FET
behaviour) or more than 70% (compression point).  The low-power linearity ot
the PA was better, when I used the 4 "best-matched" FETS which I selected
from a bundle of 50 low-cost FETS.  I blew two of these 4 FETS a few months
ago when was experimenting with a slowed-down variant of PSK31 (which
produced the sample modulation spectrum as WOLF with the option 't 1').

The best way to drive a high-power BPSK transmitter is the way M0BMU
described (do the phase reversal by "XOR-gating", and do the envelope shaping
by "modulating the PA supply voltage" or similar).  On the other hand, a
'completely linear' concept will allow low-power experiments with QPSK, MT
HELL etc. As long as I am still resctricted to the crazy power limit in DL, I
don't have to care for a highly efficient TX design (there's enough "spare
power" to compensate the losses in the ATU and in the cable which I consider
as part of my transmitter hi).


Hope I'll have better luck next time, and thanks to everyone involved.
Also thanks to all stations active in fast CW, which will remain my favorite
mode. Nice to meet you again; no matter if in CW, any kind of BPSK or
whatever.

73's Wolf (DL4YHF).

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27153 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 09:31:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 09:31:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 18520 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 09:31:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 09:31:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14p56Q-00015e-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 10:15:22 +0100 Received: from smtp.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.193.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14p56P-00015X-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 10:15:21 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from default (p1149.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.203.130]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f3G9Egq03830 for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 11:14:43 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <200104160914.f3G9Egq03830@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 11:12:59 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: QRSS X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 4/16/01 4:15:00, you wrote: >Marc, > >>Hi all, >>Yesterday evening (22:00 to22:20) >>I waited on 137.769 but nothing, no DK8KW! >>This morning I can transmit on this frequency. > >>73 Marc >>F5MAF< > >.... too much QRN/QRM in the evening, Marc ... no chance to copy any weak >QRSS-signal. We keep trying ... > >73 > >Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) > > Hi Geri. Ur strong enough here on 137678.9 - O - or just Signal strenght 8.. No F here yet :-( 73 de Ko, NL9222 > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12860 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 09:14:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 09:14:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 5691 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 09:14:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 09:14:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14p4z6-00010V-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 10:07:48 +0100 Received: from cmailg5.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.175]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14p4z2-00010Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 10:07:44 +0100 Received: from modem-60.percula-clown.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.49.188] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg5.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14p4ya-0005G7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 10:07:16 +0100 Message-ID: <001001c0c64c$3aed0580$bc31893e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: DFCW, an idea. Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 09:06:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi all,
I am very keen on exploiting DFCW to its limit (after all its easy to implement) but it still needs to be speeded up. Because of the lack of timing of the FFT bins they tend to become blurred and it is neccessary to leave large gaps between elements of a character with consequent waste of time.This is even more true with QRSS. With DFCW the frequency change between dots and dashes adequately separates them. Currently on T/A tests I have been using a 50 sec. period, 30 secs constitutes the transmitted element and 20 secs the gap ! What a waste of time. Looking at the signal on my monitor (also see Uwe's pics,thanks Uwe) these gaps are still poorly defined. I have thought about synchronising the Tx and Rx using some form of universal time signal but 1) this might be thought as cheating
and 2) the path variations, phase changes etc would be a problem. So my point is WHY BOTHER ! would it not still be possible to read the message without these gaps (they are hardly there anyway). For A to Z there is not much of a problem since there are only two adjacent elements ie 2 dots or two dashes, except for JO S H .But the numbers are a bigger problem. Anyway, crazy perhaps but any ideas ?   73s Laurie.   
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22453 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 08:50:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 08:50:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 18762 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 08:49:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 08:49:53 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14p4XN-0000oR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 09:39:09 +0100 Received: from smtp.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.193.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14p4XM-0000oM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 09:39:08 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from default (p1407.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.170.132]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f3G8cbq28127 for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 10:38:37 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <200104160838.f3G8cbq28127@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 10:36:54 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: QRSS X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 4/16/01 9:46:00, you wrote: >Hi all, >Yesterday evening (22:00 to22:20) >I waited on 137.769 but nothing, no DK8KW! >This morning I can transmit on this frequency. > >73 Marc >F5MAF > > Hi Marc.. I am waiting aswell, no F yet with Qrss either here. Last night nothing seen. 73 Good Luck de Ko, NL9222 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17458 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 08:27:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 08:27:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 3337 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 08:26:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 08:26:51 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14p4BK-0000ij-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 09:16:22 +0100 Received: from ds-img-7.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.153] helo=spdmbaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14p4BJ-0000ie-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 09:16:21 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmbaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id EAA27596 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 04:15:23 -0400 (EDT) Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 04:15:04 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: QRSS To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200104160415_MC2-CCA2-4547@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Marc, >Hi all, >Yesterday evening (22:00 to22:20) >I waited on 137.769 but nothing, no DK8KW! >This morning I can transmit on this frequency. >73 Marc >F5MAF< ... too much QRN/QRM in the evening, Marc ... no chance to copy any weak QRSS-signal. We keep trying ... 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23183 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 07:52:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 07:52:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 26563 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 07:51:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 07:51:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14p3ib-0000X7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 08:46:41 +0100 Received: from postfix1-2.free.fr ([213.228.0.130]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14p3ia-0000X2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 08:46:40 +0100 Received: from f5maf (nas-cbv-1-7-118.dial.proxad.net [213.228.7.118]) by postfix1-2.free.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id BC9D51029B1 for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 09:46:09 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000701c0c649$72ecaec0$7607e4d5@f5maf> From: "f5maf" To: "VLF Group" Subject: LF: QRSS Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 09:46:16 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, Yesterday evening (22:00 to22:20) I waited on 137.769 but nothing, no DK8KW! This morning I can transmit on this frequency. 73 Marc F5MAF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14380 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 02:02:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 02:02:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 29211 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 02:02:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 02:02:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oyGm-00074C-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 02:57:36 +0100 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oyGl-000747-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 02:57:35 +0100 Received: from steve (ppp176.dyn154.pacific.net.au [210.23.154.176]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA29547 for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 11:57:04 +1000 Message-ID: <000901c0c618$98ef2ca0$0301a8c0@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <63.14878f3e.28088e1e@aol.com> <003e01c0c53a$29315d90$0700000a@parissn2> Subject: LF: AFK... Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 11:57:16 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G'day Stewart, reading further on your web page I am pleased to see you give the thumbs up to the AFK system I proposed three years ago (1998). I have found this is actually a re-invention on my part as it it is just a very slow version of Piccolo Mark1 (VSPMk1 ???) invented by some English boffin in1957 !!! Most recently it has been re-re-invented by some US hams under the name of PUA-43 and PGP-1. I will probably use AFK (or VSPMk1) for more 9kHz experiments in the future. start quote :- "However, sending one tone from an "alphabet" of many holds some promise." end quote :- I am working at a very slow rate on a soundcard program I call SCARAB (SoundCard in Amateur Radio Application Bundle) which brings together QRSS, VFSKCW, Wanjina (FDK), Piccolo (VSPMk1, AFK, whatever...) and some kind of calibration utility. Might be ready for you guys by your next winter. Something else to play with :-) Just learning about callbacks, messaging and threads. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7720 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 01:30:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 01:30:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 14907 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2001 01:30:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 16 Apr 2001 01:30:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oxld-0006pa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 02:25:25 +0100 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oxlb-0006pV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 02:25:23 +0100 Received: from steve (ppp176.dyn154.pacific.net.au [210.23.154.176]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id LAA27788 for ; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 11:24:53 +1000 Message-ID: <005301c0c614$19889180$0301a8c0@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <63.14878f3e.28088e1e@aol.com> <003e01c0c53a$29315d90$0700000a@parissn2> Subject: LF: Re: WOLF... Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 11:25:11 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G'day Stewart, Once again congratulations on the success of WOLF !!! You have done a good job in bringing another step forward in the game. I have been looking with interest at your web site and found it very interesting. There is just one thing I don't understand on the site:- start quote :- "Multitone FSK, etc. I believe that sending multiple tones at once is not suitable for weak-signal LF work. Virtually all PA's in use are limited by PEP (rather than thermally). Therefore, sending two tones requires that each be 6 dB below the level permitted for a single tone, to avoid clipping the envelope. Compared with sending the tones sequentially, there is a still a 3 dB loss, even after allowing for the longer durations. " end quote :- The thing I don't understand is how did you manage to create a BPSK signal (which I understand WOLF is) without creating two symmetrical sidebands ??? I thought if you generated a BPSK signal at some rate it would create at least one pair of sidebands (two tones). All my simulations do this. How did you manage to eliminate the two tones ? The second thing I don't understand is that you say there is a 6dB penalty. This is true for linear systems. However, one of the recommended methods for WOLF (apparently widely used} is to use a XOR gate phase switcher. Using this scheme the penalty is 3.92dB, not 6dB. Taking into account the longer durations (which you correctly identify gives 3dB gain) the penalty is only 0.92dB compared to a single tone. 73s Steve Olney (VK2ZTO/AXSO - QF56IK : Lat -33 34 07, Long +150 44 40) ============================================= HomePage URLs: http://www.qsl.net/vk2zto http://www.zeta.org.au/~ollaneg Containing:- ULF, ELF, VLF & LF Experimentation InfraSonic Experimentation Laser Comms DX Amateur Radio Astronomy ============================================= From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24198 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2001 23:23:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 15 Apr 2001 23:23:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 19778 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2001 23:23:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Apr 2001 23:23:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ovh1-00068D-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 00:12:31 +0100 Received: from mailout05.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ovgz-000688-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 00:12:29 +0100 Received: from fwd05.aul.t-online.de by mailout05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14ovgY-0001N1-01; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 01:12:02 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[217.87.109.6]) by fwd05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14ovgM-0xZHsGC; Mon, 16 Apr 2001 01:11:50 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <51.a451d86.280b2c44@aol.com> Subject: LF: beacon g3aqc X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------050601040404000905030602" Date: Mon, 16 Apr 2001 01:11:50 +0200 Message-ID: <14ovgM-0xZHsGC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050601040404000905030602 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Laurie, detached a pic from ur todays transmission Regards Uwe/dj8wx --------------050601040404000905030602 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="AQC1.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="AQC1.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEBLAEsAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRof Hh0aHBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwh MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAAR CACkAnYDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA AgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkK 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QAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAF FFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFAH//Z --------------050601040404000905030602-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9297 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2001 21:44:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 15 Apr 2001 21:44:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 10493 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2001 21:44:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Apr 2001 21:44:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ouEg-0005T6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 22:39:10 +0100 Received: from cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ouEf-0005T1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 22:39:09 +0100 Received: from modem-150.eldalie.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.180.150] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14ouEE-00009C-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 22:38:42 +0100 Message-ID: <001701c0c5ec$0996b7c0$96b4883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. LF Tests Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 21:36:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi John,
Looks like another big CME ! Beacon running now until I wake up in the morming Hi. Lets see what happens. 73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17075 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2001 21:08:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Apr 2001 21:08:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 17048 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2001 21:07:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Apr 2001 21:07:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14otfh-0005IZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 22:03:01 +0100 Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.7]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14otfe-0005IU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 22:02:58 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.14.) id l.78.135d17eb (1882) for ; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 17:01:58 -0400 (EDT) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <78.135d17eb.280b6646@aol.com> Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 17:01:58 EDT Subject: LF: F5MAF, Wolf et al To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 70 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Marc, Valerio, Wolf and Group, saw Marc's QRSS yesterday evening near 137687, 19:40 UT "M" (-6 dBuV/m) until 20:30 "O" (-3dBuV/m). Tried to call, but in vain, not enough ERP here (30mW). Today 9:00 he was "O" at -14dBuV/m in low noise level, with G3AQC who was "O" -4dBuV/m. The line at 137689.6 Hz is also visible here most of the time, but as it does show some fading, it does not seem to originate from the DCF transmitters. Interestingly, a while ago Walter DJ2LF and I observed that the troughs do not occur simultaneously at our two QTH's, 20km apart. Other stn's heard today in JN59NK (call: dBuV/m): DF0WD: +14, M0BMU: +3, OK1DTN: +20, OM2TW: -3, DL3FDO: +23, IK5ZPV 60W: -5...-2, IK5ZPV 100W: +3 . After reading Stewart's interesting message, I immediately upgraded to WOLF 0.53. Tnx Stewart, it's a pleasure, all the new features work perfectly! In the evening I saw Wolf at DF0WD testing his WOLF, and we had a nice QSO. It ended up as something like a one-and-a-half-way-PSK: I tried to correct his TX-freq offset with -f 2016 Hz, but decoding failed completely. After some experimenting, it finally occured to me that I would have to correct the bit-timing as well by modifying my samplerate -r to 0.82% below its usual value, and bingo - there he was. When I called agn, noise and Luxembourg-effect QRM had gone up so much that we had trouble hearing each other in CW ... 73 de Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13884 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2001 20:01:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 15 Apr 2001 20:01:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 4481 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2001 20:01:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Apr 2001 20:01:39 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14osWT-0004pD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 20:49:25 +0100 Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14osWS-0004p8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 20:49:24 +0100 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.108.227]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 16:48:15 -0300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3ADA3411.C5D076F7@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 19:51:46 -0400 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: lf tests References: <3AD9DF9D.159E4330@ns.sympatico.ca> <001301c0c5d5$5b260c60$58a4883e@g3aqc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Laurie, Let's try tonight I suggest you run from 2100 til 0200 if you have a timer on tx. Sometimes before arrival of cme sigs pop up 73 de john VE1ZJ Laurie Mayhead wrote: > John, I usually transmit until 0700utc,do you want to try tonight or shall > we give it a rest and wait for better conditions? Laurie > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "John Currie" > To: > Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 6:51 PM > Subject: LF: lf tests > > > Hi Laurie I saw nil last night. Guess condx still hurt by all the > > CMEs. How late do you > > > > transmit > > 73 de John VE1ZJ > > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23743 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2001 19:03:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 15 Apr 2001 19:03:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 18030 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2001 19:03:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Apr 2001 19:03:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14orhc-0004YJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 19:56:52 +0100 Received: from cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.173]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14orhY-0004YE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 19:56:48 +0100 Received: from modem-88.dwimordene.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.164.88] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14orh7-0003HC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 19:56:21 +0100 Message-ID: <001301c0c5d5$5b260c60$58a4883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3AD9DF9D.159E4330@ns.sympatico.ca> Subject: LF: Re: lf tests Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 18:55:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John, I usually transmit until 0700utc,do you want to try tonight or shall we give it a rest and wait for better conditions? Laurie ----- Original Message ----- From: "John Currie" To: Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 6:51 PM Subject: LF: lf tests > Hi Laurie I saw nil last night. Guess condx still hurt by all the > CMEs. How late do you > > transmit > 73 de John VE1ZJ > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15663 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2001 17:00:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 15 Apr 2001 17:00:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 23642 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2001 16:59:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Apr 2001 16:59:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14opo9-0003nt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 17:55:29 +0100 Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.7]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14opo8-0003no-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 17:55:28 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.14.) id l.51.a451d86 (4012) for ; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 12:54:29 -0400 (EDT) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <51.a451d86.280b2c44@aol.com> Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 12:54:28 EDT Subject: LF: "WOLF" BPSK Test from DF0WD tonight To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Disposition: Inline X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 217 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello group,

Happy easter to everyone !

Now that my oven-controlled 'master clock oscillator' seems to work, I will
try a first test transmission with "amplitude shaped" WOLF BPSK this evening,
starting at 21:00 UTC on 137.500 kHz.
The TX power will be about 10 watts only because of feedback LF problems into
the mic input of the IC706 (generating an ugly howling sound which is
different from the WOLF signal). I'll try to use the amplitude shaped
modulation which can be generated with Stewart's new software release. The
spectra included on his WOLF pages look very promising to me, using "t 1.0".
Maybe someone in my 'neighbourhood' (JO42) can tell me about the quality of
the spectrum; and if the 'linear transverter' is linear enough hi.

Sorry I dont have email access from DF0WD, so the only way reach me there is
via LF or packet cluster.

73's, good luck, hope to see you later.. (either in CW or BPSK),
 from Wolf (DL4YHF).


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22771 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2001 16:32:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 15 Apr 2001 16:32:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 11339 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2001 16:31:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Apr 2001 16:31:53 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14opLA-0003dT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 17:25:32 +0100 Received: from ds-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.134] helo=spdmgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14opL8-0003dO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 17:25:30 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id MAA17050 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 12:24:33 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 12:24:07 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Re: QRV on 137.690 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200104151224_MC2-CC81-1C1C@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Marc, >OK Gery I made QSO with G3AQC at 11:15 local >He sent 5 5 5, and we had 50 Hz different. >On 137.69 I have spurious of DCF? >I prefer 137.67 or 72 (between LORAN lines). >I can transmit this evening or tomorrow morning. I saw G3AQC calling you, but could not detect any signal from you. Let us try again tonight. I will be transmitting on 137.670 kHz. Maybe at 22.00 local time? Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9186 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2001 14:35:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Apr 2001 14:35:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 18899 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2001 14:34:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Apr 2001 14:34:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14onVP-0002xI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 15:27:59 +0100 Received: from postfix2-1.free.fr ([213.228.0.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14onV7-0002x2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 15:27:41 +0100 Received: from f5maf (nas-cbv-2-22-166.dial.proxad.net [213.228.22.166]) by postfix2-1.free.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 96E75C235 for ; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 16:27:14 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <001601c0c5b8$4fd09d20$a616e4d5@f5maf> From: "f5maf" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000201c0c580$0e37d640$2e6f883e@g3aqc> Subject: LF: Re: F5MAF Re. DFCW Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 16:28:16 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thank Laurie I use G0MRG TX with a twin VXO. and it's little different. I have a VXO with VCC max and a second with VCC min I ll test with differents capacitors to change the frequency cover (135.7 to 137.8) and add a relay for DFCW shift. 73 Marc ----- Original Message ----- From: Laurie Mayhead To: Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 9:29 AM Subject: LF: F5MAF Re. DFCW Marc, I "pull" the xtal with a small capacitor,which I switch using a small relay. Only 2 or 3 pf needed, so I can just twist two wires together. Hope this helps. 73 Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2402 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2001 14:26:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Apr 2001 14:26:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 17484 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2001 14:26:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Apr 2001 14:26:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14onOF-0002wL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 15:20:35 +0100 Received: from postfix2-1.free.fr ([213.228.0.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14onOB-0002wG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 15:20:31 +0100 Received: from f5maf (nas-cbv-2-22-166.dial.proxad.net [213.228.22.166]) by postfix2-1.free.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 25816C226 for ; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 16:20:04 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000b01c0c5b7$4f4ff0e0$a616e4d5@f5maf> From: "f5maf" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200104150437_MC2-CC95-A83E@compuserve.com> Subject: LF: Re: QRV on 137.690 Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 16:21:05 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: OK Gery I made QSO with G3AQC at 11:15 local He sent 5 5 5, and we had 50 Hz different. On 137.69 I have spurious of DCF? I prefer 137.67 or 72 (between LORAN lines). I can transmit this evening or tomorrow morning. 73 Marc F5MAF JN03 PP TOULOUSE ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW To: Sent: Sunday, April 15, 2001 10:37 AM Subject: LF: QRV on 137.690 Marc, >Hi all, >Yesterday night I had QRV with only 150W, >this morning , I send with 300W, I hope Geri you 'll can receive better. I saw your signal with "M" today, full copy of your callsign, gave you one call at around 10.00 local time but no reply. We have to wait for better conds. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22949 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2001 13:56:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 15 Apr 2001 13:56:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 29955 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2001 13:55:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Apr 2001 13:55:55 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14omtg-0002k8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 14:49:00 +0100 Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14omtf-0002k3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 14:48:59 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.87.127]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 10:47:54 -0300 Message-ID: <3AD9DF9D.159E4330@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 13:51:25 -0400 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: lf tests Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Laurie I saw nil last night. Guess condx still hurt by all the CMEs. How late do you transmit 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21270 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2001 12:53:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Apr 2001 12:53:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 20229 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2001 12:53:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Apr 2001 12:53:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14olvE-0002Oh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 13:46:32 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout05.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14olvA-0002Oc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 13:46:28 +0100 Received: from fwd05.aul.t-online.de by mailout05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14oluk-0001z9-03; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 14:46:02 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.157.50.19]) by fwd05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14oluh-1ghVYWC; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 14:45:59 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000c01c0c3f8$b8c68ea0$d433893e@g3aqc> <3AD7EB19.4522F712@alg.demon.co.uk> Subject: LF: HP-AF-Generator X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 14:45:59 +0200 Message-ID: <14oluh-1ghVYWC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, on this reflector some weeks ago has been the discussion abt qrg- es soundcard-stability. an OM has mentioned a Hewlett-Packard AF-Generator as qrg-normal. I can`t find the mail. would the OM please be so kind disclose his identify agn ? I found in my junk-box a "HP 3300A function-generator" (range abt zero up to 100 kHz)but the diagram was not with it! I`m interested in the temp-pot of the tc-generator that heats up to abt 40 dgr c. tks in advance regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17212 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2001 08:52:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Apr 2001 08:52:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 14855 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2001 08:52:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Apr 2001 08:52:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oiAg-00012N-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 09:46:14 +0100 Received: from cmailg5.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.175]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oiAf-00012I-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 09:46:13 +0100 Received: from modem-46.angband.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.111.46] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg5.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14oiAD-0004DM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 09:45:46 +0100 Message-ID: <000201c0c580$0e37d640$2e6f883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: F5MAF Re. DFCW Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 08:29:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Marc,
I  "pull" the xtal with a small capacitor,which I switch using a small relay. Only 2 or 3 pf needed, so I can just twist two wires together. Hope this helps. 73 Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12430 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2001 08:43:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 15 Apr 2001 08:43:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 10919 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2001 08:43:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Apr 2001 08:43:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oi3l-0000xJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 09:39:05 +0100 Received: from ds-img-7.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.153] helo=spdmbaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oi3k-0000xE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 09:39:04 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmbaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id EAA20753 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 04:38:06 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 04:37:43 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: QRV on 137.690 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200104150437_MC2-CC95-A83E@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Marc, >Hi all, >Yesterday night I had QRV with only 150W, >this morning , I send with 300W, I hope Geri you 'll can receive better. I saw your signal with "M" today, full copy of your callsign, gave you one call at around 10.00 local time but no reply. We have to wait for better conds. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5316 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2001 07:47:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Apr 2001 07:47:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 18555 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2001 07:47:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Apr 2001 07:47:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ohA3-0000bi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 08:41:31 +0100 Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.45]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ohA2-0000bd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 08:41:30 +0100 Received: from compaq ([62.253.44.252]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010415074103.SBBL272.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@compaq> for ; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 08:41:03 +0100 Message-ID: <000401c0c57f$6b932de0$fc2cfd3e@compaq> From: "Tracey Gardner" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Re: 9 - 520 kHz Active Antenna Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:57:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Robin I'd agree with you about the cost of the RF Sytems antenna. On top of that I've subsequently discovered that one of their antennas received an appalling review in this years Passport to World Band Radio, so I'm inclined to stay well clear of them! :-) 73s Tracey From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4161 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2001 07:45:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Apr 2001 07:45:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 17607 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2001 07:45:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Apr 2001 07:45:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oh97-0000bb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 08:40:33 +0100 Received: from postfix2-2.free.fr ([213.228.0.140] ident=postfix) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oh96-0000bW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 08:40:32 +0100 Received: from f5maf (nas-cbv-2-38-78.dial.proxad.net [213.228.38.78]) by postfix2-2.free.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 83DC76B7FE for ; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 09:39:58 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <006101c0c57f$6987cd80$4e26e4d5@f5maf> From: "f5maf" To: "VLF Group" Subject: LF: QRV on 137.690 Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 09:40:15 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, Yesterday night I had QRV with only 150W, this morning , I send with 300W, I hope Geri you 'll can receive better. Just "coucou" at David (G0MRF) and just two questions : How modify TX for DFCW , 4 Hz shift?. To cover the low band how on the vxo modify the capacitors values? At the moment 136.OO to 138.200. Since I have added Transil 220AC between Drain and Source finish to burn Mosfet! 5Frs for the first , 35F for the second! Best 73 Marc F5MAF JN03PP From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14616 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2001 05:02:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 15 Apr 2001 05:02:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 5158 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2001 05:02:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Apr 2001 05:02:54 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oeaJ-0008Az-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 05:56:27 +0100 Received: from hs-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.177.150] helo=sphmgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oeaI-0008Au-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 05:56:26 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by sphmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id AAA23048 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 00:55:58 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 00:55:12 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: RE: QRV this evening and tomorrow morning To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200104150055_MC2-CC8D-B076@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Marc, >Thanks Steve Geri and Wil, >I'll be QRV this evening between 22.00 local and 24.00. >And tomorrow morning 8:30 local and 12:00. >On 137.690 with 250W in QRSS dot 3.< yesterday night I think I saw your signal. It started at 22.00 local time on 137.690 kHz and drifted about two Hertz downwards while you was calling. It was hard to read, the QRM/N level was pretty high, report about "T", so I didn't give you a call. I will try again today. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15072 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 23:22:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 23:22:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 13561 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 23:22:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 23:22:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oZI4-0006E4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 00:17:16 +0100 Received: from cobalt4.source.net ([206.100.10.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oZI2-0006Dz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 15 Apr 2001 00:17:14 +0100 Received: from parissn2 (AMontsouris-101-1-2-155.abo.wanadoo.fr [193.251.39.155]) by cobalt4.source.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA20405; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 16:16:43 -0700 Message-ID: <003e01c0c53a$29315d90$0700000a@parissn2> From: "Stewart Nelson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: "LowFerQTH" References: <63.14878f3e.28088e1e@aol.com> Subject: LF: Re: WOLF bandwidth suggestions Date: Sun, 15 Apr 2001 01:25:13 +0200 Organization: SC Group MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Markus and all, Thanks for your post. I've fixed some of the minor problems, and have comments on the major ones. WOLF new version is 0.53, which can be downloaded at http://www.scgroup.com/ham/wolf.html . > 1. WOLF is using cosine-shaped zero-crossings with a risetime of only 5 ms, > which causes a few extra sidebands on each side of the spectrum. I'd prefer > to extend the cosine-envelope to the full symbol duration (like in PSK31), > then ideally only the 10 Hz wide main spectral lobe would persist. The 't' (transition) option has been added for transmit. You specify a transition time, relative to the symbol duration. Values from 0 to 1 are valid. The web page shows spectra for 0, 0.1, and 1. The improvement, when 't 1' is specified, is dramatic. Many thanks for your suggestion. > At a given > PEP level and with 50% phase transitions, on average we'd lose only 0.8 dB > SNR while saving 24% transmitted energy. Unfortunately, the receiver is still matched to "rude" BPSK, so about 1.3 dB is lost, relative to the old (and default) setting. > 2. I wonder whether it would be possible to use fewer bits for the > pseudo-random reference stream, as this is known in advance and could be > averaged over longer times than the actual data. With only 1 out of 4 bits > donated, data rate could be increased by 50%. At present, most failures to decode are failures to sync up. Some are directly caused by shortcomings in the program (poor search and tracking), and some are caused by incorrect settings, e.g. sample rate, which are indirectly caused by the lack of good status and diagnostic outputs. After I get a chance to improve both of those areas, I'll reconsider how much sync information is really needed. > 3. QPSK at half symbol rate would reduce the BW down to 5 Hz. With 3 dB less > signal per channel and 3 dB less noise, SNR would remain unaffected. If only > one reference stream were needed for both I and Q, the net data rate could be > increased further. QPSK works well for e.g. DBS satellite downlinks, where, although the signal is very noisy, it's possible to average many thousands of bit transitions to get an accurate carrier phase reference. You can't do that in a weak signal ham situation, because the packets are short, and path / equipment instabilities limit the time constants for phase recovery. If the reference for a BPSK signal is 45 degrees in error, you have an additional 3 dB loss, and it will take twice as long to recover the message. But in the QPSK case, you have total garbage, because the detector sees the "right" bit and a "wrong" bit with equal amplitudes. PSK31 has an error correcting QPSK mode, which is rarely used, because most of the coding gain is eaten up by the loss described above, and the small remaining gain does not justify the added delay. IMO, the error correcting mode would have been far more successful, if it simply ran in BPSK at half speed. Most hams can't type that fast. > 4. We might then turn to OQPSK, ie. offset the I and Q streams by 50ms to > avoid the zero crossings. While we'd still want to use a linear amplifier, > the difficulties of Class-D envelope restoration schemes due to the undefined > phase at zero amplitude would be much alleviated. The good news is that OQPSK with proper filters has an essentially constant envelope, and is used on some satellite links so that the transponder can be run saturated for maximum output. The bad news is that it is essentially equivalent to MSK with a recoded input stream, and IMO weak signal FSK should use every other bin, to minimize interference resulting from reference errors, even if one must use a higher rate code to maintain the same bandwidth. Going from, say, a rate 1/6 code to a 1/3 costs only about 0.44 dB, see graph at http://scitec.uwichill.edu.bb/cmp/online/p31q/Lecture14/lect14.htm . I believe that a coherent m-ary FSK system would be technically superior to WOLF, but have not attempted to implement one, because there are very few hams (you being one of them) who have the means to generate such a signal at LF. But that would be the best way, IMO, to build a system that would occupy about 1 Hz of bandwidth, but would still permit a transatlantic LF QSO to be completed within one hour. > 5. In the current implementation, the transmit file apparently uses only half > of the DAC range. The 'a' option can now be used to specify transmit attenuation, relative to full scale. > Also, I wonder if one could possibly use Spectrogram's > RX-files taken at 5512 sps without resampling. WOLF will now accept .wav files recorded at any sampling rate, and will display a warning if the rate is not 8000 Hz. If -r is not given, the internal sampling rate is set to that of the input file. > After cheating by overwriting > the sampling rate in the wav header, I could decode using -r 5512, but > somehow WOLF didn't terminate at the end. I wrote several files with Spectrogram 6.0.8, but could not reproduce the trouble. If you use the undocumented -v (verbose) option, WOLF will display (among other things), the amount of data it thinks is in the input file. You can compare that to the file length or other software's notion of the size. It's also possible that there is a bug where certain data or settings causes the program to hang or loop, having nothing to do with the input file format. If you can see a failure on a relatively small file, email it to me, along with the console output, and I'll try to find the bug. My mail server will accept an attachment of up to about 7 MB. If it only fails with a bigger file, I'm still willing to take a look, but you'll have to upload it to some server and send me the URL. Everyone, please let me know of any problems with the new code. 73, Stewart KK7KA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28562 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 21:20:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 21:20:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 15709 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 21:20:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 21:20:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oXOY-0005Sz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:15:50 +0100 Received: from jaws.cisco.com ([198.135.0.150] helo=cisco.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oXOW-0005Su-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:15:49 +0100 Received: from virgin.net (stbryant-isdn-home.cisco.com [10.49.137.202]) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id WAA05765 for ; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:14:50 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AD8BD87.83C1B5ED@virgin.net> Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:13:44 +0100 From: "Stewart Bryant" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: 9 - 520 kHz Active Antenna References: <004001c0c505$b441e6a0$712cfd3e@compaq> <000901c0c519$40269ae0$8c4a883e@robing> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The design of the elements is interesting though. I wonder if the curved elements - which you notice do not touch the mast - are a synthetic (light weight - low windage) sphere with similar capacitance, or whether the capacitance to the mast lower down reduces the effectiveness? I think I would have put it the other way up. Stewart G3YSX "Robin T. Greenwood" wrote: > Looks expensive to me Tracy. The Decca design is fine for 136. I have done > a PCB layout for it. If you want one, I will make it for you since I recall > I owe you a favour.... > Robin > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Tracey Gardner" > To: > Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 6:09 PM > Subject: LF: 9 - 520 kHz Active Antenna > > > > > RF Systems have just introduced a new high performance active antenna > > covering 9 - 520 kHz the LFA520 Longwave Active Antenna > > > > http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/lwant/3060.html > > > > Universal Radio in the States don't quote a price for this yet but the > > Swiss > > company Shoc shows the price as: CHF 404, (EURO 264 or US$ 248) > > > > Regards > > > > Tracey > > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12324 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 21:09:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 21:09:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 17248 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 21:09:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 21:09:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oXDY-0005Nk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:04:28 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oXDV-0005Nf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:04:25 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer (man-041.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.41.51]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id f3EL3vV08614 for ; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:03:57 +0100 Message-ID: <000901c0c526$5a4563e0$3329f7c2@oemcomputer> From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C043F@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> <001601c0c4fd$6a22a800$9fce28c3@ericadodd> Subject: LF: Re: Re: RE: Helical antennas Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 22:02:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The "normal mode" helical aerial by DA Tong. Radio Communication Jul 74 pp 432 to 437. 73 de John Rabson G3PAI ----- Original Message ----- From: g3ldo To: Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 5:09 PM Subject: LF: Re: RE: Helical antennas > I haven't been able to find this article - if you can find any more info I > would be grateful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21011 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 20:34:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 20:34:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 5122 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 20:34:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 20:34:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oWft-000576-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 21:29:41 +0100 Received: from mail12.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.215]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oWfp-000571-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 21:29:37 +0100 Received: from modem-12.meitnerium.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.74.140] helo=robing) by mail12.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14oWfO-00067C-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 21:29:11 +0100 Message-ID: <000901c0c519$40269ae0$8c4a883e@robing> From: "Robin T. Greenwood" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <004001c0c505$b441e6a0$712cfd3e@compaq> Subject: LF: Re: 9 - 520 kHz Active Antenna Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 20:29:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Looks expensive to me Tracy. The Decca design is fine for 136. I have done a PCB layout for it. If you want one, I will make it for you since I recall I owe you a favour.... Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tracey Gardner" To: Sent: Saturday, April 14, 2001 6:09 PM Subject: LF: 9 - 520 kHz Active Antenna > > RF Systems have just introduced a new high performance active antenna > covering 9 - 520 kHz the LFA520 Longwave Active Antenna > > http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/lwant/3060.html > > Universal Radio in the States don't quote a price for this yet but the > Swiss > company Shoc shows the price as: CHF 404, (EURO 264 or US$ 248) > > Regards > > Tracey > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9640 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 19:10:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 19:10:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 4391 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 19:10:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 19:10:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oVMT-0004eM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 20:05:33 +0100 Received: from postfix1-2.free.fr ([213.228.0.130]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oVMS-0004eH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 20:05:32 +0100 Received: from f5maf (nas-cbv-1-7-105.dial.proxad.net [213.228.7.105]) by postfix1-2.free.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id AD5B21028E8 for ; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 21:05:05 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <002401c0c515$f42626e0$6907e4d5@f5maf> From: "f5maf" To: "VLF Group" Subject: LF: QRV this evening and tomorrow morning Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 21:06:03 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks Steve Geri and Wil, I'll be QRV this evening between 22.00 local and 24.00. And tomorrow morning 8:30 local and 12:00. On 137.690 with 250W in QRSS dot 3. You can see two QSL from IK5ZTV and M0BMU (QRSS) on my site http://www.qsl.net/f5maf/log.htm And my "old antenna " who felt down 3 months ago. http://www.qsl.net/f5maf/antenne.htm Sorry only in french version But I'll update english version with new photos and explanations . 73 Marc From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16295 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 17:15:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 17:15:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 1526 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 17:15:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 17:15:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oTYv-0003xX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 18:10:17 +0100 Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.42]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oTYr-0003xS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 18:10:13 +0100 Received: from compaq ([62.253.44.113]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010414170946.NHKI290.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@compaq> for ; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 18:09:46 +0100 Message-ID: <004001c0c505$b441e6a0$712cfd3e@compaq> From: "Tracey Gardner" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 9 - 520 kHz Active Antenna Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 18:09:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: RF Systems have just introduced a new high performance active antenna covering 9 - 520 kHz the LFA520 Longwave Active Antenna http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/lwant/3060.html Universal Radio in the States don't quote a price for this yet but the Swiss company Shoc shows the price as: CHF 404, (EURO 264 or US$ 248) Regards Tracey From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15197 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 16:15:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 16:15:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 18810 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 16:15:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 16:15:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oSby-0003b1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 17:09:22 +0100 Received: from latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.40]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oSbx-0003aw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 17:09:21 +0100 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-1-159.easynet.co.uk [195.40.206.159]) by latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 92FCF53783 for ; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 17:08:51 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <001601c0c4fd$6a22a800$9fce28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C043F@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> Subject: LF: Re: RE: Helical antennas Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 17:09:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Andy, > The normal mode helix was covered in some detail in a 1974 (!!) edition > of Radio Communication with a set of empirically determined equations > for calculating resonance and winding dimensions. Seem to remember it > was by the famous D A Tong, but I may be mixing it up with another > article. I found the equations to be a good starting point from which > to fine tune helials for HF. Used to have a copy of that RadCom, and > it may still be lying on a shelf somewhere. > I haven't been able to find this article - if you can find any more info I would be grateful. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14974 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 15:24:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 15:24:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 2183 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 15:24:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 15:24:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oRoz-0003JS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 16:18:45 +0100 Received: from ruthenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.138] helo=ruthenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oRov-0003JN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 16:18:41 +0100 Received: from [62.7.57.54] (helo=j1r9b7) by ruthenium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14oRoU-000290-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 16:18:15 +0100 Message-ID: <000901c0c4f5$ed8c4b40$3639073e@j1r9b7> From: "Derek Atter" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C043E@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> Subject: LF: Re: LF Roundtable / Forum - new venue Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 16:16:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Derek G3GRO Andy, I am pleased to hear that the Flight Refuelling Club are able to offer an alternative venue for the proposed LF Forum and I hope that the session will be well supported. We hope that there will be at least 3 people attending from Crawley, Lech G3KAU, Stewart G3YSX and myself. We plan to bring some of the remaining ex-Decca items with us for the bring and buy sale including various sizes of litz wire, 1000V polystyrene capacitors, and some spare PA MOSFETs for the Decca 5501 TXs, etc. It would be a good idea if all those intending to come to the meeting indicate via the reflector their intentions so that the organisers have some idea of the likely support. 73, Derek Atter G3GRO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Talbot Andrew" To: ; "API (E-mail)" ; "API-HOME (E-mail)" Sent: Monday, April 09, 2001 8:44 AM Subject: LF: LF Roundtable / Forum - new venue > The LF forum that was to have been held at the Crawley ARC and > unfortunately had to be cancelled due to foot in mouth, will now take > place at the Flight Refuelling Amateur Radio Society a week later than > the original scheduled date, on Sunday 20 May.> > Andy G4JNT From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7034 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 15:22:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 15:22:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 9607 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 15:21:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 15:21:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oRdY-0003EI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 16:06:56 +0100 Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oRdU-0003ED-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 16:06:52 +0100 Received: from modem-14.arda.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.122.14] helo=g3aqc) by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14oRd3-00014Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 16:06:25 +0100 Message-ID: <000e01c0c4ec$11246e20$0e7a883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. LF Tests Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 15:05:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi John,
Will try again tonight from 2100utc. 73 laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8839 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 13:30:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 13:30:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 3999 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 13:30:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 13:30:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oQ28-0002c4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 14:24:12 +0100 Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oQ25-0002bz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 14:24:09 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.87.237]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 10:22:55 -0300 Message-ID: <3AD88841.27C5B00D@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 13:26:26 -0400 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: lf tests Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Laurie and Peter, I was not able to look before 2330Z. Saw nil . 128.9 was S-7 and DCF-39 was S-4 at 0330. Will start 2100 tonight 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14239 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 12:16:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 12:16:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 29455 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 12:16:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 12:16:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oOqt-0002Br-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 13:08:31 +0100 Received: from hs-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.177.150] helo=sphmgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oOqr-0002Bm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 13:08:30 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by sphmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id IAA03001 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 08:07:41 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 08:07:23 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Where are you? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200104140807_MC2-CC71-7617@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Marc, >Hi Group, > >I was taken off work during 4 months. >I come bake with a new antenna , I have upgraded my courant of 50%. >This morning I transmitted on 137.6 in QRSS mode (dot = 3) during 20 mns, >but nothing! >Everybody isd on 135.9? >LORAN is more present in this part of band. > >73 Marc > >F5MAF I would love to have a QRSS sked on LF with you, I do not have worked any F-station yet. 136.600 is the lower edge of the QRSS segment, so I suggest you call on 137.700 kHz, which has been established as a kind of calling frequency. My favorite QRG for QRSS is 137.690 kHz (for no specific reason, just to stay off the calling QRG a few Hertz ...). If you tell me a convenient time for you, we can give it a try, I am in JO52BH (near Hannover) and run 350 Watts into a 18m vertical (around 2 Amperes, about 200 mW EMRP). Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18961 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 10:28:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 10:28:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 18741 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 10:28:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 10:28:35 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oNC9-0001at-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 11:22:21 +0100 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oNC8-0001ao-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 11:22:21 +0100 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14oNBi-0001oR-0A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 10:21:54 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AD82599.84FB31EF@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 11:25:29 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Where are you? References: <000701c0c4ca$6c8b99e0$b717e4d5@f5maf> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Marc F5MAF wrote: > > Hi Group, > > I was taken off work during 4 months. > I come bake with a new antenna , I have upgraded my courant of 50%. > This morning I transmitted on 137.6 in QRSS mode (dot = 3) during 20 mns, > but nothing! > Everybody isd on 135.9? Keep trying, Marc. You are quite correct to use QRSS in the range 137.6 to 137.8. (There is another 'data' segment too: 137.4 to 137.6 kHz.) QRSS/DFCW should only used in the range 135.8 to 136.0 kHz when stations in the US/VE are known to be listening, and CFH (approx 137.0 kHz) is on the air. Good luck, Marc - welcome back. Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16260 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 10:11:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 10:11:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 7991 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 10:11:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 10:11:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oMvG-0001V9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 11:04:54 +0100 Received: from postfix1-2.free.fr ([213.228.0.130]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oMvF-0001V4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 11:04:53 +0100 Received: from f5maf (nas-cbv-2-23-183.dial.proxad.net [213.228.23.183]) by postfix1-2.free.fr (Postfix) with SMTP id 81EEC102959 for ; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 12:04:26 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <000701c0c4ca$6c8b99e0$b717e4d5@f5maf> From: "f5maf" To: "VLF Group" Subject: LF: Where are you? Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 12:04:34 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Group, I was taken off work during 4 months. I come bake with a new antenna , I have upgraded my courant of 50%. This morning I transmitted on 137.6 in QRSS mode (dot = 3) during 20 mns, but nothing! Everybody isd on 135.9? LORAN is more present in this part of band. 73 Marc F5MAF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9036 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 09:56:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 09:56:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 25389 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 09:55:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 09:55:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oMfU-0001O9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 10:48:36 +0100 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oMfQ-0001O4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 10:48:32 +0100 Received: from [212.1.153.9] (helo=g4jnt) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.22 #1) id 14oMWs-0007Uu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 10:39:42 +0100 Message-ID: <003201c0c4c7$16c63b80$099901d4@g4jnt> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: LF Forum Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 10:40:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: There has been so much discussion on Wolf and BPSK spectra on this reflector recently that it seems a prime topic for the forthcoming LF Forum on 20 May at Flight Refuelling HQ nr Wimborne. Has anyone got any requests or ideas for subjects of talks or demonstrations ? Is anyone prepared to offer a talk or chair a discussion ? Although the planned forum still several weeks off, it would be helpful to get an idea of how many people are going to be there. Who is intending to come along ? Andy G4JNT From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22159 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 06:24:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 06:24:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 4496 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 06:24:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 06:24:08 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oJIc-0000Ee-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 07:12:46 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.89]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oJIb-0000EZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 07:12:45 +0100 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14oJIB-0007hr-0V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 07:12:19 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AD7EB19.4522F712@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 07:15:53 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Group" Subject: Re: LF: Re. New station? References: <000c01c0c3f8$b8c68ea0$d433893e@g3aqc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Laurie Mayhead wrote: > > Last Sunday night I worked G8TB in Purley for the first time. > If you are new to the band Bernard welcome. If not new still > welcome but I should be more observant! 73s all . Laurie. As Laurie had guessed, Bernard is not very new to the band and I first worked him a couple of months ago. He had already worked most of the active stations on 136, so he's now looking for more of the less active ones. If you hear Bernard, please give him a call. By the way, yesterday morning (Friday) I was pleased to hear DJ7RD (539) and OH1TN (549), both calling CQ. Also, I've now uploaded details of my new loading coil at: http://www.alg.demon.co.uk/radio/136/ldg_coil.htm#mark2 Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28148 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 03:40:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 03:40:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 24706 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2001 03:40:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Apr 2001 03:40:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oGqK-0007pK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 04:35:24 +0100 Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oGqH-0007pF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 04:35:21 +0100 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.181.175]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010414033421.JHQR696.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 15:34:21 +1200 Message-ID: <001301c0c493$f24f6520$afb51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20010328085558.2f57efaa@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <014601c0c46c$ba6d2100$0301a8c0@steve> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Soft phase switching... Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 15:27:19 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Steve, Good pics on sideband roll-off in the modulator. Note that any practical power amplifier would regenerate some sidebands at a significantly higher level than they were at the output of a BPSK modulator stage. I would say there is no point in showing sideband suppress to over a 100 dB. Intermod in thrashed PAs would be around 20 dB or so. 73, Bob From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22388 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 23:13:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 23:13:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 24537 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 23:13:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 23:13:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oCec-0006H1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 00:07:02 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout01.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.80]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oCeb-0006Gv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 00:07:01 +0100 Received: from fwd01.aul.t-online.de by mailout01.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14oCeA-0005Mu-01; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 01:06:34 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.156.6.178]) by fwd01.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14oCdy-143aQSC; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 01:06:22 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002e01c0c453$956c3440$8dce28c3@ericadodd> Subject: LF: Beacon g3ldo/g3aqc X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 01:06:22 +0200 Message-ID: <14oCdy-143aQSC@fwd01.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: g3ldo schrieb: > Dusted the cobwebs of the LF transmitter and put the LF antenna up. > > Will be on just below Laurie at 135.920 from 2200z with QRSS, 20 sec dots. > > Regards, > Peter, G3LDO Hi Laurie, Hi Peter es All, nice signals. G3LDO -45 to -40dB G3AQC -50 to -44dB Noise -80 to -75dB 20 min-monitoring from ARGO128/AGC-on/ADC-fs with inverted Vee ant 350m es 400m legs. regards Uwe/dj8wx jo43sv From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3394 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 23:07:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 23:07:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 8452 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 23:07:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 23:07:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oCXs-0006AZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 00:00:04 +0100 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oCXq-00066e-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 00:00:02 +0100 Received: from steve (ppp253.dyn154.pacific.net.au [210.23.154.253]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA13173 for ; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 08:59:31 +1000 Message-ID: <015901c0c46d$732bbee0$0301a8c0@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: "RSGB LF Group" Subject: LF: Soft Phase Switching - oops.... Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 08:59:47 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------000609070902010005060905" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000609070902010005060905 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Oops - forgot to add the pikies... 73s Steve Olney (VK2ZTO/AXSO - QF56IK : Lat -33 34 07, Long +150 44 40) ============================================= HomePage URLs: http://www.qsl.net/vk2zto http://www.zeta.org.au/~ollaneg Containing:- ULF, ELF, VLF & LF Experimentation InfraSonic Experimentation Laser Comms DX Amateur Radio Astronomy ============================================= --------------000609070902010005060905 Content-Type: image/gif; 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13 Apr 2001 23:02:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 23:02:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 27810 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 23:02:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 23:02:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oCSs-000661-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 23:54:54 +0100 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oCSq-00065w-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 23:54:53 +0100 Received: from steve (ppp253.dyn154.pacific.net.au [210.23.154.253]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id IAA12981 for ; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 08:54:21 +1000 Message-ID: <014601c0c46c$ba6d2100$0301a8c0@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20010328085558.2f57efaa@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: LF: Re: Soft phase switching... Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 08:54:34 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G'day Rik, > > BTW, another idea : > What happens if you send a BPSK (instant phase switching) as reference > signal to a PLL ? > The reaction time of the PLL would depend on the feedback circuitery, maybe > this could also be used to get 'soft phase transistions'. > At 136kHz the whole PLL could be incorporated in a single CMOS4046, just 1 > cheap IC and half a dozen resistors/capacitors might do the job. > What a fascinating idea !! I have been struggling with a way to reduce the BW of the simple hard-phase switching from an XOR gate (used for generating FDK signals). I had tried all sorts of complicated ways of generating a suitable signal (PWM with high switching frequency, stepped phase change, etc) not much different from previous ideas from others. Your idea of a PLL captured (:-) my interest. I did a couple of spectrum analyses using Excel for both the hard-switched case (see Wanjina.gif attached - 3kB) and for a slow-phase case (see Wanjina_Slow.gif attached - 3kB). The hard-switched case shows the expected spectrum. The slow-switched case shows the appearance of the "carrier" frequency between the two mains sidebands and the close-in sidebands are of the same order of magnitude as the hard-switched case. The gain comes from the rapid roll-off further out. Looks promising. When I get a round tuit I will implement this using a CD4046 as suggested. There are two phase detectors. One which uses an XOR gate and locks to a phase difference of 90 degrees. This one is not suitable as it seems to lock to +/-90 degrees, therefore I suspect for an 180 degrees shift it would only momentarily hiccup but not actually switch phase. The other phase detector locks to a zero phase difference and so would switch. The only disadvantage is that it has less noise immunity. This should not be an issue here as there are no S/N considerations (or very little). A great piece of lateral thinking Rik !! 73s Steve Olney (VK2ZTO/AXSO - QF56IK : Lat -33 34 07, Long +150 44 40) ============================================= HomePage URLs: http://www.qsl.net/vk2zto http://www.zeta.org.au/~ollaneg Containing:- ULF, ELF, VLF & LF Experimentation InfraSonic Experimentation Laser Comms DX Amateur Radio Astronomy ============================================= From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5513 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 21:22:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 21:22:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 29745 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 21:22:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 21:22:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oAtg-0005Yt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 22:14:28 +0100 Received: from cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.177]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oAtf-0005Yo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 22:14:27 +0100 Received: from modem-66.orbic-batfish.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.44.66] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14oAtE-00087n-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 22:14:00 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c0c456$401c4540$422c893e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: re. Beacon Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 21:13:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi All.
Running beacon tonight from 2100 utc usual freq. DFCW 30sec. dots.Sorry I did'nt give much notice last night it was a last minute decision.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16644 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 20:55:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 20:55:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 1129 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 20:55:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 20:55:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oAOM-0005M6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 21:42:06 +0100 Received: from mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.17]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14oAOL-0005Ho-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 21:42:06 +0100 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.178.66]) by mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010413204106.FTZJ1079.mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Sat, 14 Apr 2001 08:41:06 +1200 Message-ID: <00cb01c0c45a$3776b0c0$42b21bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20010412154807.40773f12@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: Re: LF: Bandwidths/Modes Date: Sat, 14 Apr 2001 08:41:26 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik, Very interesting on the three types of spectra: > So far I 'played' with 3 types of modulation : real BPSK, PSK (amplitudes > enveloped) and what I call 'soft' PSK (gradual phase transitions instead of > brute phase jumps). > The spectra (and and block diagram of the modulator) can be found at : > > http://www.qsl.net/on7yd/PSK_TEST/psk_test.htm > > It confirms that : > - BPSK is far too wide to be used with high power on 136kHz (unless you > live in the middle of nowhere or you just don't care about others) > - that PSK has the best (most narrow) bandwidth > - that 'soft' PSK may have some potential as a class-D suitable mode with > an acceptable bandwidth. I think it would be useful to include a 4th spectra for CW "on-off keying" as there is nearly a century of experience with sharing frequencies where there are finite key clicks. One criteria is for BPSK bandwidth to be no more than a same PEP and same data rate CW emission. 73, Bob From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21210 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 20:01:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 20:01:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 2974 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 20:00:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 20:00:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14o9dc-0004zQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 20:53:48 +0100 Received: from hatfield.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.39]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14o9db-0004zL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 20:53:47 +0100 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-1-141.easynet.co.uk [195.40.206.141]) by hatfield.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2F75C22E011 for ; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 20:53:13 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <002e01c0c453$956c3440$8dce28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: LF Beacon Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 20:53:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dusted the cobwebs of the LF transmitter and put the LF antenna up. Will be on just below Laurie at 135.920 from 2200z with QRSS, 20 sec dots. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9406 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 19:47:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 19:47:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 4053 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 19:47:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 19:47:34 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14o9Rk-0004tx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 20:41:32 +0100 Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.8]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14o9Rj-0004tp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 20:41:31 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.14.) id l.f.12b11bd0 (3856) for ; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 15:40:28 -0400 (EDT) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 15:40:27 EDT Subject: LF: IK5ZPV received To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 70 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Valerio, "TST IK5ZPV 60W" ufb decoded at 18:05 UT, abt 0dBuV/m, some QRN. (Direct E-Mail refused at firewall.dii.unisi.it) CU de Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15830 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 17:55:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 17:55:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 26181 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 17:55:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 17:55:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14o7dp-0004I6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 18:45:53 +0100 Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14o7do-0004I1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 18:45:52 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.104.31]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 14:44:18 -0300 Message-ID: <3AD77404.AB4B78E4@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 17:47:48 -0400 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re. Beacon References: <000c01c0c39b$660ab9a0$9484883e@g3aqc> Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Sri Laurie didn't see your note on time .  Been on 144 looking for aurora
    73 de John VE1ZJ

Laurie Mayhead wrote:

Hi All,DCF39 is extreamly strong tonight (overloading my pre-amp)I dont know what this means, but  have decided to run the beacon tonight .Freq. 135.922 KHz DFCW 30 sec.dots.73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15690 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 17:21:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 17:21:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 11451 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 17:21:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 17:21:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14o7BG-00046N-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 18:16:22 +0100 Received: from imo-r16.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.70]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14o7BF-000465-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 18:16:21 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-r16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.14.) id l.63.14878f3e (3852) for ; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 13:15:11 -0400 (EDT) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <63.14878f3e.28088e1e@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 13:15:10 EDT Subject: LF: WOLF bandwidth suggestions To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 70 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Stewart and LF group, regarding the recent discussions about PSK, I'd like raise a couple of points to possibly minimize the occupied bandwidth. These are merely meant to be suggestions, I do not intend to criticise an excellent piece of work. 1. WOLF is using cosine-shaped zero-crossings with a risetime of only 5 ms, which causes a few extra sidebands on each side of the spectrum. I'd prefer to extend the cosine-envelope to the full symbol duration (like in PSK31), then ideally only the 10 Hz wide main spectral lobe would persist. At a given PEP level and with 50% phase transitions, on average we'd lose only 0.8 dB SNR while saving 24% transmitted energy. 2. I wonder whether it would be possible to use fewer bits for the pseudo-random reference stream, as this is known in advance and could be averaged over longer times than the actual data. With only 1 out of 4 bits donated, data rate could be increased by 50%. 3. QPSK at half symbol rate would reduce the BW down to 5 Hz. With 3 dB less signal per channel and 3 dB less noise, SNR would remain unaffected. If only one reference stream were needed for both I and Q, the net data rate could be increased further. 4. We might then turn to OQPSK, ie. offset the I and Q streams by 50ms to avoid the zero crossings. While we'd still want to use a linear amplifier, the difficulties of Class-D envelope restoration schemes due to the undefined phase at zero amplitude would be much alleviated. 5. In the current implementation, the transmit file apparently uses only half of the DAC range. Also, I wonder if one could possibly use Spectrogram's RX-files taken at 5512 sps without resampling. After cheating by overwriting the sampling rate in the wav header, I could decode using -r 5512, but somehow WOLF didn't terminate at the end. 73 es CU Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14464 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 17:21:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 17:21:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 11641 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 17:21:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 17:21:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14o7BG-00046L-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 18:16:22 +0100 Received: from imo-r17.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.71]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14o7BF-000466-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 18:16:21 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-r17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.14.) id l.28.13ef3026 (3852) for ; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 13:15:12 -0400 (EDT) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <28.13ef3026.28088e1f@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 13:15:11 EDT Subject: Re: LF: DF6NM received in Wolf mode To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 70 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Jim and all, > ...but at about 2130 a BPSK-like trace became faintly > visible on the spectrogram, and decoded to give the message "CQ > DF6NM JN59NK". What a nice surprise! Actually, I had just tested to optimize the TX drive without really expecting to be heard. I had unpacked Stewart's software last week and gave it a go on recordings of you and Valerio taken on March 19th / April 3rd. Amazingly, both were decoded on the first try. Time for a two-way QSO, I guess... Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27013 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 17:21:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 17:21:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 27811 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 17:21:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 17:21:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14o7B7-00046B-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 18:16:13 +0100 Received: from imo-r15.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.69]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14o7B6-000464-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 18:16:12 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-r15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.14.) id l.33.1383325e (3852) for ; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 13:15:09 -0400 (EDT) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <33.1383325e.28088e1d@aol.com> Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 13:15:09 EDT Subject: LF: Re:PLC To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 70 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alan and all, > This is what you get when you have technically illiterate people in charge, > and heavy 'pressure' from big commercial interests. ( "yes of course I will > donate to your election funds...") only too true :-( Markus From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2234 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 16:38:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 16:38:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 14529 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 16:38:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 16:38:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14o6Uz-0003ox-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 17:32:41 +0100 Received: from ruthenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.138] helo=ruthenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14o6Uv-0003on-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 17:32:37 +0100 Received: from [213.122.250.226] (helo=dave) by ruthenium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14o6UR-0002IV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 17:32:07 +0100 Message-ID: <000f01c0c437$654770c0$e2fa7ad5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" References: <000c01c0c3f8$b8c68ea0$d433893e@g3aqc> Subject: LF: Re: Re. New station? Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 17:26:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC G3AQC wrote: >Last Sunday night I worked G8TB in Purley for the first time. I first worked Bernard on 24th February, he had been on a week or two before then. He is fairly active during the daytime in the week Cheers Dave dsergeant@btinternet.com dsergeant@iee.org http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2192 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 16:38:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 16:38:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 14351 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 16:38:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 16:38:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14o6Uz-0003oy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 17:32:41 +0100 Received: from ruthenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.138] helo=ruthenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14o6Uw-0003op-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 17:32:38 +0100 Received: from [213.122.250.226] (helo=dave) by ruthenium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14o6UV-0002IV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 17:32:11 +0100 Message-ID: <001201c0c437$67821e80$e2fa7ad5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" References: <002001c0c3ab$e4b58860$1b3f073e@default> Subject: LF: Re: diplexer ....more Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 17:31:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC I am always a bit puzzled at how low pass filters work with a real antenna load, which is only 50ohms or anything near it at the resonant frequency of the antenna. At other frequencies it will present a highly reactive load, which not only makes the theoretical response just that (theoretical) but also reflects high voltages back to the pa. At one time I was also considering a lpf/hpf arrangement similar to Alan's but didn't persue the idea - it will indeed safely sink harmonic responses, but will possibly make close in reflected signals worse by upsetting the input impedance of the lpf. When I was going through a phase of blowing up FETs, I found this was indeed caused by low frequency instability in the pa, but although I tried various things to tame the input side of the FET I felt the real problem was of highly reactive loads being fed back to the drain circuit from antenna mismatches - and with my loop I don't need to go very far off resonance to get those. Most blowups occurred when I accidently transmitted a few hundred Hz off the 1-1 swr frequency (and occurred of course instantaneously, glad I have foldback limiting on my power supply!). I found the only way to prevent these instabilities was to put impedance in the supply side of the output network, in my case a small ferrite ring with 3 turns on it in series with the output coupling transformer killed them and I have had no blowups since - but at a power loss as this ferrite gets rather hot.. See the circuits on my website if this doesn't make sense. I am of course using a single FET at a relatively low 35W. Obviously when you have multiple FETs and a few hundred watts you have even less scope for accidents. But it really does seem that the output side is where to concentrate, not at the input which has been suggested. I have in fact always used dc coupling direct from transistor drivers (based on ideas of Finbar in the earlier source book) - I have an improved version using a Scmidtt trigger for my next tx, that is not finished yet but promises a more stable drive less dependent on the input level from my FT101ZD. Cheers Dave G3YMC dsergeant@btinternet.com dsergeant@iee.org http://www.dsergeant.btinternet.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10863 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 16:16:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 16:16:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 21374 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 16:16:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 16:16:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14o5z2-0003cq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 16:59:40 +0100 Received: from mta13-acc.tin.it ([212.216.176.44] helo=fep13-svc.tin.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14o5yy-0003cl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 16:59:36 +0100 Received: from mailsrv.dii.unisi.it ([212.171.201.199]) by fep13-svc.tin.it (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with ESMTP id <20010413155839.OFSX1582.fep13-svc.tin.it@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> for ; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 17:58:39 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AD720CE.7B1CD122@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 17:52:46 +0200 From: "valerio gabbani" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: IK5ZPV received agn References: <9755.200104111034@gemini> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz wrote: > Dear Valerio, LF Group, > > I made 3 recordings of IK5ZPV's "Wolf" signals on 137.5kHz last > night; one made between 2000 and 2025utc produced no decoded > results, however the other 2, from between 2100 and 2200, both > decoded without problems after the 2nd and 3rd data frames > respectively. The message was "TST IK5ZPV 10W", and the > indicated frequency offset was between +0.15 and +0.4Hz. We are > now reaching what must be QRP by anyone's standards, and there > still seems to be some margin on signal strength. Conditions > seemed to be quite noisy last night, so lower powers should be > possible. > > Valerio - I would be interested to know some details of TX > equipment and antenna you are using for these tests - seems to be > working well , whatever it is! > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU Dear Jim and others, the setup i'm using to test Wolf is almost the same i use since 1999.I made only some improvements to ground adding some hundreds meter of wire but with small change in inpedance. The antenna is the same 100mtX15mt L, and the TX is G3YXM design. The wolf stream is sinchronized with the RF carrier and BPSK modulation is obtained with a couple of x-or gates. I wish to continue with wolf transmissions in the next days. I will use different power level, starting from 20:00 UTC. Many thanks to all for the reports, best wishes, '73 Valerio From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18588 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 12:05:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 12:05:44 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 25256 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 12:05:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 12:05:35 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14o2De-0002FV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 12:58:30 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14o2De-0002FQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 12:58:30 +0100 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14o2DD-0003yY-0K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 11:58:04 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 12:56:58 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: LF: Re: Diplexer In-reply-to: <002801c0c37d$cf6365a0$3d44073e@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 3.05 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks Alan for the direct e-mails. I use a driver transformer wound on a chunky ferrite tube with 5 wire ribbon cable, one primary and 4 secondaries, instead of the H bridge driver chip. Seems to work OK although Bob ZL2CA's comments are worth looking into regarding the not-so-good waveform shape but it is running extremely cool at 500/600 watts. Jim, I'm going to try the series resonant tank again without the secondary 'guard' circuit to see what it buys me. I'll let you know when the first set of STW20NB50 FETs blows! Christer tells me that Johan SM6LKM is also building a bridge PA - be interested to know how he gets on. 73, Tom G3OLB. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11455 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 10:12:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 10:12:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 15368 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 10:12:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 10:12:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14o0Rn-0001YU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 11:04:59 +0100 Received: from cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.174]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14o0Rm-0001YP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 11:04:58 +0100 Received: from modem-84.powder-brown-tang.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.51.212] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14o0RM-0005AS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 11:04:32 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c0c3f8$b8c68ea0$d433893e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. New station? Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 10:03:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Last Sunday night I worked G8TB in Purley for the first time.
If you are new to the band Bernard welcome. If not new  still welcome but I should be more observant!  73s all . Laurie. 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19847 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 07:42:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 07:42:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 13512 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 07:42:25 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 07:42:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ny62-0000ad-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 08:34:22 +0100 Received: from fm215.facility.pipex.com ([194.131.104.225]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ny5z-0000aX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 08:34:19 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (124.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.124]) by fm215.facility.pipex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA07796 for ; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 08:27:34 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010413082153.00a109f0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 08:30:48 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: MP letter In-reply-to: <004501c0c376$2c0116c0$1a30fd3e@compaq> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 18:29 12/04/01 Thursday, Tracey wrote: >Would somebody like to come up with a "standard" letter that we could >use? Agree with Laurie - strongly recommend we do NOT use a standard letter. Hundreds of identical letters from members of a single organisation are treated as just one letter. Use your own wording. No harm in agreeing what the technicalities are, however! What Alan says is interesting. Might this mean that rival companies would start boosting the power of their signals to over-ride competition??? Walter G3JKV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19836 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 07:42:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 07:42:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 13455 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 07:42:24 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 07:42:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ny6V-0000aj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 08:34:51 +0100 Received: from fm215.facility.pipex.com ([194.131.104.225]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ny6U-0000ac-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 08:34:50 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (124.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.124]) by fm215.facility.pipex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA07799 for ; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 08:27:36 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010413083144.00a13310@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 08:34:07 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: Re: LF: Decca 1876 schematic needed In-reply-to: <001801c0c059$b8d89d40$655997d4@W98.swipnet.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Christer - at 19:28 08/04/01 Sunday, you wrote: >Kjell, SM1LCA is looking for a Decca 1876 transmitter schematic. >There are four SJ757 transistors in each PA module. >Any information appreciated. Have put out a request for info on the ex-Decca employees net. Suspect this is a Hifix transmitter module - OK for 2 MHz or so but not much else. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10370 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 01:47:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 01:47:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 20888 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 01:47:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 01:47:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nsUW-0006gD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 02:35:16 +0100 Received: from mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nsUV-0006g8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 02:35:15 +0100 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.178.88]) by mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010413013416.HLO688.mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 13:34:16 +1200 Message-ID: <000b01c0c3b9$ffabf740$58b21bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002001c0c3ab$e4b58860$1b3f073e@default> Subject: LF: Re: diplexer ....more Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 13:34:39 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alan, I comment on one part of your reply: > To Bob, I think > the efficiency of the PA is only high if you calculate the input power to > the > 'total' output power (wideband), the harmonic power doesnt 'improve your QSO > getting potential' surely as its in the BC band in Europe!! Isn't it the > case that the harmonic power is not reflected back to the the PA , where it > could cause trouble but the input to the diplexer can still be a square > wave, giving high efficiency in terms of the heat generated on the heatsink. The "squarewave" action in the PA devices is basically why the very high overall efficiency is possible. The squarewaves could be thought of as having harmonics (a la Fourier series) but they could more simply be regarded as inclusive of "hard switching" where there is minimal coincidence of voltage and current (the product being dissipation). The squarewaves are "beneficial" and could be considered as reducing the heating compared to them not being present. 73, Bob From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14051 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 00:02:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 00:02:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 2607 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2001 00:02:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Apr 2001 00:02:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nqxA-0005yp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 00:56:44 +0100 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nqx8-0005yj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 00:56:42 +0100 Received: from [62.7.63.27] (helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14nqwf-0003kO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 00:56:13 +0100 Message-ID: <002001c0c3ab$e4b58860$1b3f073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: diplexer ....more Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 00:36:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060409060401020302090005" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060409060401020302090005 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, thanks to Jim and Bob for their comments. Yes Jim I was worried about the little jiggle I saw when I simulated a 'tuned' antenna on the end, but my thought was that it was at least at the wanted frequency. To Bob, I think the efficiency of the PA is only high if you calculate the input power to the 'total' output power (wideband), the harmonic power doesnt 'improve your QSO getting potential' surely as its in the BC band in Europe!! Isn't it the case that the harmonic power is not reflected back to the the PA , where it could cause trouble but the input to the diplexer can still be a square wave, giving high efficiency in terms of the heat generated on the heatsink. (or am I up the wrong tree ??) The suggestion (from Dick ) was that the PA instability on tuning up the aerial may have been caused by the response of the aerial to the harmonics in the square waveform. I suppose if the PA is unconditionaly stable (like the Class A circuits) it doesnt matter too much. I have run another calculation based on 200kHz cross-over which will avoid the problem I think that Jim saw. (GIF file attached....note these values were not simulated yet so check that they bear a constant ratio ...200/160 ....to the 160kHz crossover values before spending a lot of time winding coils!) The point I can't quite get a handle on is " would the tuning wierdies be worse with the harmonics successfully absorbed, than with a straight LP filter" I think the best solution to that one may be the "suck it and see test". Certainly the response of the diplexer input at the harmonic looks 'benign'. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com --------------060409060401020302090005 Content-Type: image/gif; name="LFDIPLEX.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="LFDIPLEX.gif" R0lGODdhMgJGAfcAAAAAAP////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 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XbqAXwilcyWjCypDr/mG5Kc1z0l45md936k1qtmmX8obu7mLIaY+JRqcXXVecRqkkymGZ2mU coh7/tMjpk3KdIcplJP0l1QZmY2pdoOamI4KZoCpp3w1qZL5LGSalZiaU4oJmZ2qGpuaqIga qocqor0FqqbKRnX6mK3qaKt6Wab5p7Aaq7KKlq8qqrbqqZq6mLs6prnKq6X6q/ZpqbeqqsSq hsHqqcuqacmKnZ+Kqs76rECkqc3aa9QKrX7Fk9kao3jFrd2KcAxXcSZ5iJ4nceW6h6wHo4IZ rsiIrE3pru+alkEprw85rH1pr/1Ir0Wprz3Hrzrnr/+Kr0MlsPfqq5xqsAkJrwmrsGjaqFXp sFfIsEAnsQsLsBFrsYBKsKSmsQ8LmvHqsfaIsb0osiPLse1qsmvXjizbgrLgpbIf5rIyO7Mw e3Ize7MsW7O1OKc6C5Y92zPp+rMgK7QOE7RE269Huz/Zl7R3trRMWysKKK1PKzXzN7XNErU8 a7XHal9Zq7UWVbVeayhYG7adMrZke7Zom7Zqu7Zs27Zu+7ZwG7dyO7d0W7d2e7d4m7d6u7d8 27d++7eAayMBAQAAOw== --------------060409060401020302090005-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19480 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 23:06:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 23:06:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 8174 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 23:06:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 23:06:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nq1M-0005Ux-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 23:57:00 +0100 Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nq1I-0005Us-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 23:56:56 +0100 Received: from modem-20.barad-dur.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.132.148] helo=g3aqc) by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14npxX-0005w7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 23:53:03 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c0c39b$660ab9a0$9484883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. Beacon Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 22:54:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi All,
DCF39 is extreamly strong tonight (overloading my pre-amp)
I dont know what this means, but  have decided to run the beacon tonight .Freq. 135.922 KHz DFCW 30 sec.dots.
73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6597 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 21:29:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 21:29:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 3447 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 21:29:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 21:29:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14noWH-0004sF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 22:20:49 +0100 Received: from mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.17]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14noWD-0004s9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 22:20:46 +0100 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.178.174]) by mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010412211943.ZAJW1079.mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Fri, 13 Apr 2001 09:19:43 +1200 Message-ID: <00ab01c0c396$70a2c4c0$aeb21bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001b01c0c355$f2388240$42ff7ad5@default> Subject: LF: Re: Aerial Diplexer for 136 Date: Fri, 13 Apr 2001 09:17:21 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alan, OK on the absorption arm of a diplexer: > Hi all, Dick PA0SE, remarked some time ago that a diplexer with an > absorbtive load for the unwanted harmonics might help to tame some of the ' > FET-eating' TXs. Harmonic power that goes to the absorber would detract from the potential high efficiency with hard switching mosfets. I was amazed to witness how small a heatsink was needed on a 180 kHz pushpull mosfet PA built by Richard VK7RO, which used a driver chip from the TC442x series. It appears to be very stable and very efficient. I hope to build a similar but bigger "digital PA" using those driver chips, with one driver chip per pushpull pair of mosfets. I assume that the "DC coupled low impedance drive", which avoids transformers or chokes in the gate circuit, greatly reduces the scope for parasitic oscillation. I'm also likely to use 0.1 ohm source resistors in the final to give guaranteed current sharing, with some degenerative feedback and also providing easy metering or scope probe display of individual mosfet current. So the point of this reply is to flag that taming the final can lead to very high efficiency, whereas a diplexer/absorber load in the output is lossy (the absorber load may need a bigger heat sink than the mosfets). 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17536 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 18:33:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 18:33:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 1746 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 18:33:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 18:33:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nloE-0003f8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 19:27:10 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nloD-0003eM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 19:27:09 +0100 Received: from [62.7.68.61] (helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14nlnm-0002jo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 19:26:42 +0100 Message-ID: <002901c0c37d$d7cc6980$3d44073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: re PLC Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 19:21:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, Can the organisations installing PLC guarantee me that their signal will NOT enter my premises?? I suspect not ...and according to the law I am entitled to a clean power supply. I might want, for example, to run a power circuit computer network on my own site. This could be particularly hilarious in this country where one can buy power from a number of different companies over the same lines. Then who becomes responsible ?? Have the Euro and German politicans considered that can of worms, to be opened when they finally deregulate the power systems?? This is what you get when you have technically illiterate people in charge, and heavy 'pressure' from big commercial interests. ( "yes of course I will donate to your election funds...") Good luck fellows, give 'em hell. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btintenet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13544 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 18:10:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 18:10:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 11936 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 18:09:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 18:09:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nlRa-0003Wk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 19:03:46 +0100 Received: from cmailg2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.172]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nlRW-0003Wc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 19:03:42 +0100 Received: from modem-95.barad-nimras.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.133.223] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14nlNY-0001Kn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:59:36 +0100 Message-ID: <000501c0c372$6ef7de40$df85883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <004501c0c376$2c0116c0$1a30fd3e@compaq> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re. PLC Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:02:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Tracey, I often think these things are more acceptable if they are individually worded. But that just my opinion,at least write.73s Laurie. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Tracey Gardner" To: Sent: Thursday, April 12, 2001 6:29 PM Subject: LF: Re: Re. PLC > > Would somebody like to come up with a "standard" letter that we could > use? > > 73s Tracey > > Further to the recent revalations re the threat of PLC,could I suggest > that we ALL write to our MPs, pointing out the threat to our hobby and > also the enormous contribution that amateur radio has made over the > years in so many ways. I dont need to list this we all know about these > contributions. 73s Laurie. > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13585 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 17:46:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 17:46:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 10313 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 17:46:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 17:46:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nkvC-0003Hz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:30:18 +0100 Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.43]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nkv9-0003Hu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:30:15 +0100 Received: from compaq ([62.253.48.26]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010412172948.PNEX283.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@compaq> for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:29:48 +0100 Message-ID: <004501c0c376$2c0116c0$1a30fd3e@compaq> From: "Tracey Gardner" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Re. PLC Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:29:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Would somebody like to come up with a "standard" letter that we could use? 73s Tracey Further to the recent revalations re the threat of PLC,could I suggest that we ALL write to our MPs, pointing out the threat to our hobby and also the enormous contribution that amateur radio has made over the years in so many ways. I dont need to list this we all know about these contributions. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18248 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 17:27:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 17:27:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 18251 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 17:27:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 17:27:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nkRx-00033T-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:00:05 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nkRw-00033O-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:00:04 +0100 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14nkRW-0006bU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:59:38 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <10758.200104121659@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: "RSGB LF Group" Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:59:41 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Tech - Alan's Aerial Diplexer In-reply-to: X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Tom, LF Group, It should be pointed out that the series tank circuit in the Decca PA amongst other things isolates the PA devices from changes in the load impedance. It removes a lot of spikyness from the current waveform in the PA. Another effect is to reduce switching losses, and therefore heating of the MOSFETs. It definitely is an asset . I tried simulating Alan's circuit using PSpice. It certainly evens out impedance variations at high frequencies, however, when combined with a resonant load at 136k (ie. the LF antenna), rather sharp parallel resonances lead to rapid swings of impedance around the operating frequency. I have not investigated exactly what effect this would have, but I guess it would make the tuning rather unpredictable. It is a bit more civilised if the cross-over frequency is increased by a factor of 1.5 to 240kHz (ie, divide all L and C by 1.5). I have no access to the university e-mail system over the Easter break, but hope to be QRV for some of the time at least. Hope everybody enjoys the holiday :-) Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10031 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 16:58:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 16:58:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 29783 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 16:57:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 16:57:55 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nkGJ-0002w7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:48:03 +0100 Received: from jaws.cisco.com ([198.135.0.150] helo=cisco.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nkGI-0002vy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:48:02 +0100 Received: from virgin.net (uxb-dhcp-198-135-1-193.cisco.com [198.135.1.193]) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id RAA02938 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:47:04 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AD5DBC6.CBFFC8D8@virgin.net> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:45:59 +0100 From: "Stewart Bryant" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re. PLC References: <001401c0c359$906ad500$e1a5883e@g3aqc> <14njxC-1Ub55VC@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Please note that many of the MPs have email addrersses. The list of MPs can be found at: http://www.parliament.uk/commons/lib/almsad.htm Regards Stewart G3YSX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3307 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 16:55:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 16:55:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 21701 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 16:55:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 16:55:30 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nkCD-0002qy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:43:49 +0100 Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.7]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nkCB-0002qp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:43:47 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.14.) id l.89.520741f (4411) for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 12:42:45 -0400 (EDT) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <89.520741f.28073505@aol.com> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 12:42:45 EDT Subject: Re: LF: Re: Spectrum of Wolf signal To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 4/11/01 10:21:47 AM Eastern Daylight Time, jsm@gulfislands.com writes: >> Now if only we could combine the ease of Argo with the best of Wolf....Wolargo? : ) >> Hmmm. Rather a long name, Steve. And, since the signal has a "growly" sound, it would go a long way toward making the technique sound more user-friendly if we identify it instead with an image that most people would find warm and cuddly. Something like a cute little puppy dog. The name should reinforce that image. Therefore, I suggest combining "Argo" and "WOLF" into: ARF! 73, John From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28777 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 16:39:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 16:39:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 24350 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 16:39:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 16:39:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14njxu-0002oQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:29:02 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout02.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.17]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14njxp-0002oL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:28:58 +0100 Received: from fwd07.aul.t-online.de by mailout02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14njxM-0003hg-01; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:28:28 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (087321565-0001@[217.2.64.49]) by fwd07.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14njxC-1Ub55VC; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:28:18 +0200 From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001401c0c359$906ad500$e1a5883e@g3aqc> Subject: Re: LF: Re. PLC X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 18:28:18 +0200 Message-ID: <14njxC-1Ub55VC@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I think Lauries proposal is necessary even more because today the announced draft mandate of the European Commission has been sent out (to CEN, CENELEC and ETSI) for a standard on Telecommunications Networks including PLC, CATV, twisted wires and what else. The EC is looking for a standard that allows all this to be operated, including a protection of radio services (the NB30 has been addressed as well as MPT1570)! So far I do not know how this should really work. 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB Laurie Mayhead schrieb: > Hi All, > Further to the recent revalations re the threat of PLC,could I suggest that > we ALL write to our MPs, pointing out the threat > to our hobby and also the enormous contribution that amateur radio has made > over the years in so many ways. I dont need to list this we all know about > these contributions. 73s Laurie. > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27384 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 15:28:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 15:28:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 8216 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 15:28:16 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 15:28:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nil5-0002B0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:11:43 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nil4-0002Av-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:11:42 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA387396 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 17:11:14 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010412161242.28e77358@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:12:42 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Bandwidths/Modes In-reply-to: <3.0.1.16.20010412154807.40773f12@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <2565.200104111824@gemini> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >This can be done by phase-shifting the RF signal by 910 degrees must be 90 degrees of course Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24014 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 15:17:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 15:17:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 11804 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 15:17:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 15:17:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nifH-0002A5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:05:43 +0100 Received: from mail3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nifF-0002A0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:05:42 +0100 Received: from modem-97.earnil.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.165.225] helo=g3aqc) by mail3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14nidp-0004Xb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:04:14 +0100 Message-ID: <001401c0c359$906ad500$e1a5883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. PLC Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:04:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi All,
Further to the recent revalations re  the threat of PLC,could I suggest that we ALL write to our MPs, pointing out the threat
to our hobby and also the enormous contribution that amateur radio has made over the years in so many ways. I dont need to list this we all know about these contributions. 73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21595 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 15:15:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 15:15:47 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 2075 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 15:15:31 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 15:15:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nieC-00029y-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:04:36 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.91]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nie9-00029t-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:04:35 +0100 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14nidh-0008mo-0X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:04:05 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:11:39 +0100 To: "RSGB LF Group" From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: LF: Tech - Alan's Aerial Diplexer MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alan What a convenient piece of timing! I was intending to play with an absorbtive load at the third harmonic on my Tx this weekend, so your diplexer design arrived at the right time. I gave up on the YXM/MRF style design using a pair of FETs in push-pull because the FET consumption rate got ridiculous. So I made a copy of the Decca bridge circuit which works extremely well and so far appears reliable at the 600 watt level. My intention is to put a few more turns on the output transformer and get it up to a kilowatt this weekend. However, I have been investigating the rather nasty looking waveform on the FET outputs and was wondering if it could be due to reflections of odd harmonics back into the PA as these will not see a 50 ohm load. I have a damping R and C across the transformer primary which helps. (Zobel did Dave call it?) I should add that, for the moment, I have abandoned the series tuned tank circuit of the Decca. The bridge feeds directly into a YXM tapped output transformer, with a single primary, which then feeds a low pass filter. All good fun! 73, Tom G3OLB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23226 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 14:55:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 14:55:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 27822 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 14:55:18 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 14:55:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14niNM-00021E-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:47:12 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14niNG-000218-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:47:06 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA422486 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 16:46:38 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010412154807.40773f12@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 15:48:07 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Bandwidths/Modes In-reply-to: <2565.200104111824@gemini> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In an attempt to compare the different PSK-like modes I built a kind of 'universal modulator' that could generate a PSK signal, BPSK signal and all variations of these. Such a modulator must be able to change the phase and amplitude of the RF signal in a flexible way. This can be done by phase-shifting the RF signal by 910 degrees, then modulate the orgiginal - and phase shifted signal in a DBM (double balanced mixer) and finnaly sum both signals. Sounds complicated, but an RF of 137kHz and slow baudrates (10Bd) makes it a lot easier than it would be on HF/VHF and at fast baudrates. In fact the complete modulator is no more than a few opamps, 2 cheap DAC's (digital analog convertors) and a PIC processor to control the modulation. It all fits on a 7 by 7cm PCB. Changing modulation is done by changing a few lines of code in the PIC. So far I 'played' with 3 types of modulation : real BPSK, PSK (amplitudes enveloped) and what I call 'soft' PSK (gradual phase transitions instead of brute phase jumps). The spectra (and and block diagram of the modulator) can be found at : http://www.qsl.net/on7yd/PSK_TEST/psk_test.htm It confirms that : - BPSK is far too wide to be used with high power on 136kHz (unless you live in the middle of nowhere or you just don't care about others) - that PSK has the best (most narrow) bandwidth - that 'soft' PSK may have some potential as a class-D suitable mode with an acceptable bandwidth. I intend to test the different modes on the band in the near future, I got hold of a linear 100W amp that goes up to 250kHz. Unfortunaly strongs winds took down my antenna, so first I will have to re-install the antenna. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27261 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 13:55:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 13:55:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 22179 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 13:55:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 13:55:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nhM1-0001RV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:41:45 +0100 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nhLz-0001RN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:41:44 +0100 Received: from [213.122.255.66] (helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14nhLV-0004N4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:41:13 +0100 Message-ID: <001b01c0c355$f2388240$42ff7ad5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Aerial Diplexer for 136 Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 14:38:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------080805070401060300000707" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080805070401060300000707 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, Dick PA0SE, remarked some time ago that a diplexer with an absorbtive load for the unwanted harmonics might help to tame some of the ' FET-eating' TXs. I pushed some numbers into the normalised circuit given in the 2001 ARRL Handbook. I used a 'cross-over ' of 160kHz (which may be too low, the equations are in a simple spread sheet so easily re-run) but the resultant circuit does not look too difficult. The coil values are in the region that could be wound on iron dust or low loss ferrite torriods. I have frequency plots, which are probably a little big to be accepted by the reflector, but I will gladly post them direct to anyone interested. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com --------------080805070401060300000707 Content-Type: image/gif; name="LFDIPLEX.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="LFDIPLEX.gif" R0lGODdhEwJdAfcAAAAAAP////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// //////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////////// 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iLjmbeP0h5MnZxdmhBsmiV9GiQlmiWHGiB+WgpcIiZCniSrGiY14a3EGio0niolIismWbavI itTmiZsIi84mi6NIi6doi6+Ii93kiKKEioqnisTGi0AEd5MIjIEXesdIjNvSFGumYcyofKmi iNHIS9NIjdUoS+/3Ua6YjQZIdnFmit4YN9v4Uc+4guNojddofbGYjt/4JeWoVO4oSimobfM4 OPH4gPZ4j5ODd87ki/xERAG4JO7EjgiVjwN4jqXYXT7kdvxHVxC5jjFXi4viKq12gf5YdISE jBuoQ9KjJG4zca3RPhZnddK3gPCokLmoIVBHWZmFfKVm/pCY8TGHUVV5ZnM2hJNJB1qP0W4M iHwNeZCqlT7dN5HlZWnrB1l5hjnC00FpcpMqJJJGGTE0xJPv52T8Ri0vd3Q9yZSjMxxyF01A FZIzCY7ChVhXR2ZoNXBNaWYNqFU6N0WYyDUtZJUpBFWItkj6Y1puFIB0c2eVJZYXeJcRN4hR hn3ydz9RmXSeNnQsEn+BVpfSgZhfQ2qQBnJveYCogZCQ6XFmppJn+YzVI1qSY5gzSZmMSSmp 2ZmEaZWRaVu6NWm2cXECRJJUhVtJeVQxmTujdUQFyWeD5psWlX/8VzyutlNW14CRs5gfl5wr A4y/4kOBFZg2pZDBSZ0Q9XC1/mmbx1kjTdmbsrZ7bNKWJgOaeQJHvzNaMSSYZSmX63mCqNSC 5XgucwQn7ylBQ2mbsSmTGMZJGhiUdMld/Oha5qlUBQo7A6qO9WiWvZig/ViPB2pNDkqO8CiO E4pwEfqPunihCsegGtqNHCpBGfqPI7pJIfqbC8qfDXqiNgWhBPmhLIqiP7aPMfpBnHl82Fij DpWRzWihOjqYL3p8JbqiP3qWEvmJRbqjLnqDSaqkM+qjTYqU3wSQUUqS8QmiVTqHU5qjWdqG AfZrc6lebtZiYUpeYwqmHCmFJUemabp3ZyqgXVqIWLqIcSqnXNqJdaqlNLqQeeqld4qOfeqn ewqN3IGKbX9KfYVqqIOKp4mqUlTKSm1Kd2uKpo2qqHA6jJW6ZJdKp5kaVlj4qaAKU53KZqFa qqZapgx5qqoaqqP6epHaqoQKq6P3qrKKqLX6d7R6qxSpqwTHdLxKcpn2q9pifCoqrLvTdlNp rApCrMmqrB6IrLnqrPipfsUqrVgDrdZqNtiardzard76reAaruI6ruRaruZ6ruiaruq6ruza ru76rvAar/I6r/Rar/Z6r/iar/q6r/zar/76rwAbsAI7sARbsAZ7sAibsAq7sAzbsA77sBAb sRI7sRMbEAAAOw== --------------080805070401060300000707-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21966 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 12:44:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 12:44:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 1732 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 12:44:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 12:44:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ngDc-00013X-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 13:29:00 +0100 Received: from [206.46.170.142] (helo=smtp10ve.mailsrvcs.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ngDY-00013S-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 13:28:56 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ieee.org (client-151-200-117-22.bellatlantic.net [151.200.117.22]) by smtp10ve.mailsrvcs.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA10492; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 01:24:07 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3AD5A0B4.E6C7BB64@ieee.org> Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 08:33:57 -0400 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: PLCs in Germany Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Gang, Those of you who are interested in power line communications unfolding in Europe may wish to read this paper in English http://www.darc.de/referate/ausland/download/darc-plc-paper.html 73 Andre' N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 385 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 09:44:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 09:44:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 26365 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 09:44:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 09:44:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ndWj-0008KZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 10:36:33 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ndWj-0008KU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 10:36:33 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14ndWJ-0001zV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 10:36:07 +0100 Message-ID: <17085.200104120936@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 10:36:09 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: DF6NM received in Wolf mode X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Markus, LF group, I made some recordings on 137.5kHz last night between 2000 and 2200 in case IK5ZPV was QRV. No signals from Valerio were decoded, but at about 2130 a BPSK-like trace became faintly visible on the spectrogram, and decoded to give the message "CQ DF6NM JN59NK". The indicated frequency offset was -0.02Hz I also tried to copy VA3LK's Wolf beacon, but nothing was decoded - I imagine DX conditions are poor with the present level of solar/geomagnetic activity. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27822 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 07:13:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 07:13:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 29658 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2001 07:13:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Apr 2001 07:13:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nb6n-0007Lw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 08:01:37 +0100 Received: from tor-smtp4.attcanada.ca ([207.181.101.72] helo=attcanada.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nb6i-0007Lr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 08:01:32 +0100 Received: from david (ham-on51-146.netcom.ca [142.154.68.50]) by attcanada.ca (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA08152 for ; Thu, 12 Apr 2001 03:01:04 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <01a601c0c315$945371c0$6655872c@david> From: "Tenty" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3AD37870.409FD8D8@ieee.org> <14n81Z-1IfNWjC@fwd00.sul.t-online.com> <3AD45970.EC20DE1B@virgin.net> Subject: Re: LF: More QRM ? Date: Thu, 12 Apr 2001 06:58:19 +0100 Organization: Holland Data and Wireless MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Many people died for one of those right's in Europe 60 years ago! Bob, ve3tok / pa0tok ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stewart Bryant" To: Sent: April 11, 2001 14:17 PM Subject: Re: LF: More QRM ? I wonder if the European Human Rights Legislation applies and takes prescient? This change in the noise floor takes away our right and pre-existing ability to communicate with other human beings via a natural phenomina. The Human Rights legislation has had a considerable impact in the UK in forcing the government to change their policies. I would have thought that the military would have taken a serious view about the loss of this resource. I also understand that there is a new MF broadcast digital entertainment system that would be effected by this. Why have both of these lobby groups been quite on this? 73 Stewart G3YSX Hans-Joachim Brandt wrote: > Dear all, > > in order to convert just words into figures I feel it necessary to describe the > situation in Germany more in detail. > > The german NB30 standard has been rejected by all german radio users and > radio equipment manufacturers since it has been proposed. For those who know the > british MPT 1570 the problem is that NB30 allows interfering fieldstrengths 20 > dB higher. But even the resistance of the german broadcasters could not prevent > the adoption of the NB30 standard. The declared aim of the german government > and the upper house of parliament has been to give "modern telecommunications > technologies" a chance. The CENELEC standard on CATV systems covering 5 MHz to > 3000 MHz has also been aligned to the NB30 limits earlier, at least in the HF > and VHF-UHF range. (NB is simply a german abbreviation for Nutzungsbestimmung = > operational condition or regulation. There are other NB numbers within the > german frequency allocation table.) > > A radio amateur living in a house in which cables are operated under the > conditions of the NB30 and having a half wave antenna 10 meters away from his > house will have to expect the following calculated S meter readings: > > Band, MHz 1,8 3,6 7 14 21 28 > NB30 > dB(muV/m) 37,8 35,1 32,6 29,9 28,4 27,3 > S-Meter S9 +12 dB S9 +3 dB S8 S6-7 S5-6 S5 > > I hope the table will be delivered in the same order in which I have typed it. > > The second line gives the interfering fieldstrength permitted by NB30. The > situation is bad, especially for QRPers. But all efforts of DARC to prevent such > a decision were in vain. > > Regarding the frequency depending levels of the NB30 it must be stated that it > will allow VDSL and telecommunication over CATV, but only low-level PLC. > High-level PLC producing interfering fieldstrengths of 80 dB(muV/m) or even > more, is not permitted, this being the reason for the SIEMENS company to leave > the PLC business some weeks ago. ASCOM (who now will supply power line companies > which formerly had decided to use SIEMENS equipment) has claimed in a newspaper > interview that NB30 low-level PLC would not enable a bit failure rate > sufficiently low for 75% of all mains outlets. Therefore PLC becomes more costy, > less dependable, repeaters are needed etc. The real winners of the german > government decision seem to be those companies which will operate VDSL over > telephone lines because they will have no (or only few) problems to meet the > NB30 radiation levels. We know that in the U. K. the MPT 1570 (the range 1.6 to > 30 MHz, from December 1999) is also under pressure because its low levels even > do not permit VDSL operation, but offers much better protection for radio > services. > > The European Commission is also in favour of PLC, because a network independant > of the telephone net could be used. But after the PLC Forum had conducted a PLC > workshop before the Commission, where strong opposition by radio users had been > presented, the Commission is said to be at least unsafe whom to believe. But > basically the Commission still thinks that a compromise with radio users should > be possible, and still hopes that a standard would solve all problems. > > For the time being, german radio amateurs hope, of course, that this german > example will not be copied by other nations and that european standardization > (especially the way being carried out in CEPT SE35) will result in lower > interference radiation levels, for the benefit of radio services. And we also > hope that the german administration will be able to effectively control the NB30 > limits throughout the country; otherwise a chaos would develop, no question. > > Sorry to report such a situation here over the server. > > 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB > > Andre' Kesteloot schrieb: > > Power lines win German support > > By Reuters > > March 30, 2001, 11:05 a.m. PT > > FRANKFURT--Germany's Bundesrat upper house of parliament on Friday > > cleared > > regulatory hurdles for the so-called power-line technology for fast > > Internet > > access via electricity lines. A statement issued by the economics > > ministry > > in Berlin said three laws setting out the conditions for power-line > > operations had been approved, clearing the way for nationwide > > implementation > > in the 16 states in due course. > > > > The move gives power line the chance of competing with other established > > > > communications channels such as cable television and telephone networks. > > > > Analysts say that by delivering high-speed Internet connections through > > residential wall sockets, utilities could break the phone companies' > > grip on > > Internet access while also offsetting recent losses due to shrinking > > retail > > power margins. > > > > Story Copyright C 2001 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. > > > > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22215 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 20:36:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 20:36:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 24947 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 20:36:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 20:36:03 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nREs-0003HB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 21:29:18 +0100 Received: from ds-img-7.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.153] helo=spdmbaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nREp-0003H5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 21:29:15 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmbaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id QAA06744 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 16:28:17 -0400 (EDT) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 16:27:22 -0400 From: "boffin1" Subject: Re: LF: LF Antennas To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200104111627_MC2-CC26-D7B@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike, Sorry for a misunderstanding. If all that concerns you is matching then it does not matter if there is a ferrite core or no ferrite core, but if you are also interested in getting greater efficiency by obtaining more radiation from the top end, then my comments are valid. The simple point that I was making is well illustrated by considering an ordinary ferrite core aerial on a receiver, the efficiency on reception incrreases but the efficiency on transmission decreases by the same factor - the ratio of B to H. So if you are not interested in getting a bit more radiation from the top end but only want to change the matching impedance, please ignore my comment and go ahead! With kind regards, Roger. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22226 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 18:32:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 18:32:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 13392 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 18:31:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 18:31:58 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nPIa-0002Wl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:25:00 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nPIX-0002Wg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:24:57 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14nPI7-00000I-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:24:31 +0100 Message-ID: <2565.200104111824@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 19:24:33 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Bandwidths/Modes X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Regarding the bandwidth occupied by BPSK - John, KD4IDY has kindly posted the spectra I obtained recently for various types of BPSK and phase modulation on the LWCA web site at http://lwca.org/miscimg/phasespectra.jpg. The top 3 spectra in the left hand column are relevant to the current discussion, showing "raw" and envelope-shaped BPSK sigs, with 12wpm CW for comparison. The vertical scale is 10dB/div, the horizontal span 400Hz. It is clearly true that the "raw" signal is undesirably wide, but the fully-engineered signal fits into a sensible bandwidth, which is why I went to all that trouble! I agree that the bandwidth occupied by the current "Wolf" mode signals would become a problem if more than a handful of people tried to use the mode with the current band-plan. However, this mode is in the experimental stage at the moment, so that could change, and the "digital" band segment is not exactly busy at the moment. The main point of doing it is to try a different technique for improving detection of weak signals. There seems to have been few attempts by amateurs to utilise sophisticated coding techniques in this way. It is pretty clear that with the longer dot periods, the slow speed of QRSS is a real obstacle to 2 way communications, and so anything that improves on this is worth considering. The results achieved so far seem encouraging. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1076 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 17:22:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 17:22:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 1254 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 17:22:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 17:22:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nOFO-00024I-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 18:17:38 +0100 Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.42]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nOFK-00024D-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 18:17:34 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.104.253]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010411171708.YLVK290.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 18:17:08 +0100 Message-ID: <000901c0c2ab$3b48d940$fd6868d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Transatlantic Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 18:16:59 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have spent the last few weekends trawling through hundreds of e-mails to chart the progress of the 2000/2001 transatlantic testing. My web site already had a comprehensive report on the one weekend's concentrated activity and an incomplete lists of those who had made it across the Atlantic. Vaino commented that some distances and locations would be useful, and several people pointed out errors and omissions in my list. The site now has a complete list of transatlantic paths crossed - and it's an amazing number, together with locators and distances. There is also a chronology of when records were set and broken and who did what first. Please let me know if there are are additions and corrections and anything else you would like to see. I am prepared to add a complete log of crossings, instead of just the firsts, but this will require input from you. www.lf.thersgb.net Mike, G3XDV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10250 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 15:27:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 15:27:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 3517 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 15:27:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 15:27:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nMMp-0001JO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 16:17:11 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nMMl-0001JJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 16:17:07 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 16:15:19 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 16:15:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: wolf Message-ID: <3AD48313.12322.188BA97@localhost> In-reply-to: <3AD4C8FB.94F65F10@ns.sympatico.ca> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: VE1ZJ wrote: > Hi all, I saw the spectrum plot Alberto provided of Valerio's wolf > transmission. What an ugly sight. It takes between 15 and 20 Hz of > specytum space. > With 30 sec dots I can receive and separate a station every 250 > millihertz. In other words In the space of one wolf transmission 60 to > 80 QRSS stations could be trying to have QSOs. Ah, but the intention of WOLF is to get the information across much faster. You are better off comparing it to normal CW which occupies a similar bandwidth and take only a few minutes to complete a QSO. The important thing is data transfer rate, ie bandwidth multiplied by the time it takes to get the message through. To turn your equation around, perhaps you can get 60 to 80 WOLF QSOs in the time it takes for one QRSS or DFCW QSO. I am keeping an open mind on this one, at least until WOLF is as friendly to use as QRSS, or never gets popular because it is still too complex. Plainly QRM to others will be an issue. We have the next six months (of high QRN) to see what happens, or if something else comes along. I still like the idea of multi-tone (ie multi- frequency), but this still trades bandwidth for transmission speed - as does DFCW. 73 Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22518 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 14:59:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 14:59:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 12262 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 14:59:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 14:59:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nLvE-0001AX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:48:40 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06lmsgate-2.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nLvC-0001AQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:48:39 +0100 Received: from d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.147]) by d06lmsgate-2.uk.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id PAA96744 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:32:12 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (ss6.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.71]) by d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id PAA293352 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:47:28 +0100 Message-ID: <3AD46E19.92E9DB19@usa.net> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 16:45:46 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Spectrum of Wolf signal References: <28743670.986928810075.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> <3AD41EC8.56E2F268@usa.net> <001b01c0c291$5c93a400$5412f4cc@jsm> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Steve McDonald wrote: > Interesting...looks kind of "growly" , like an aurora signal. Now if only we > could combine the ease of Argo with the best of Wolf....Wolargo? : ) > > VE7SL > Steve, it may not be totally impossible, though not based on Wolf.... There are still some aspects to be ironed out, so don't hold your breath. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13869 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 14:45:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 14:45:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 1619 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 14:45:45 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 14:45:45 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nLgc-00014a-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:33:34 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nLgY-00014V-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:33:30 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA253484 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 16:33:04 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010411153434.219f812a@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:34:34 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: wolf In-reply-to: <3AD4C8FB.94F65F10@ns.sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello John, In fact Valerio's signal looks rather clean for BPSK, so I guess that he did a similar thing as Jim and 'cleaned up' the output spectrum by AM envelopping the signal. Real BPSK (hard phase switching) has a much wider bandwidth, Jim (M0BMU) has a nice picture this. I am sure that one 1 W ERP real BPSK signal can cause enough QRM to make weak signal reception impossible for any other station in a 1000km range. For sure the sitation in Europe is very different from the US lowfer scene. In Europe we have over 100 stations active on 2.1kHz wide band (I believe the south UK there are over a dozen stations in a 100 by 100km square). Any of this stations can run up to 1W ERP if he (she) wants. In the US (lowfer) the band is 35kHz wide and stations are limited to 1W input and 15m wire as antenna, so unless you live in a salt water swamp the ERP will be no more than a few mW. 73, Rik ON7YD At 14:13 11/04/01 -0700, you wrote: >Hi all, I saw the spectrum plot Alberto provided of Valerio's wolf >transmission. What an ugly sight. It takes between 15 and 20 Hz of >specytum space. > With 30 sec dots I can receive and separate a station every 250 >millihertz. In other words In the space of one wolf transmission 60 to >80 QRSS stations could be trying to have QSOs. I do not doubt the fact >that the wolf experiments are worthwhile from a testing of technology >point of view. I feel, however, that wolf as currently configured is >not a worthwhile mode for general amateur operation in the small 136kHz >band. I especially resent the attitude of VA3LK that he would transmit >regardless of potential QRM to others as stated in one of his emails. > Current transmissions above 137.5 kHz will not cause much >trouble. As interest in the band grows and more countries get on the >band, We will have to very carefully choose modes of operation which >provide the best combination of bandwidth consumed compared with >communication efficiency, coupled with ease of use. So far I vote for >DFCW and QRSS. I looked last night but saw nil. > 73 de John VE1ZJ > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12393 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 14:23:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 14:23:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 3503 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 14:23:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 14:23:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nLLY-0000sj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:11:48 +0100 Received: from neptune.imagenisp.com ([204.244.138.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nLLM-0000sc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:11:36 +0100 Received: from jsm (DEFAULT [204.244.18.84]) by neptune.imagenisp.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id 2LYCD8KG; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 07:11:01 -0700 Message-ID: <001b01c0c291$5c93a400$5412f4cc@jsm> From: "Steve McDonald" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <28743670.986928810075.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> <3AD41EC8.56E2F268@usa.net> Subject: LF: Re: Spectrum of Wolf signal Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 07:11:53 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Interesting...looks kind of "growly" , like an aurora signal. Now if only we could combine the ease of Argo with the best of Wolf....Wolargo? : ) VE7SL > Hi all, > should someone be interested in seeing the spectrum of the > Wolf signal of IK5ZPV of yesterday evening, it can be found here: > http://www.qsl.net/i2phd/argo/wolf.html > > 73 Alberto I2PHD > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23080 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 14:08:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 14:08:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 1572 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 14:08:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 14:08:43 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nLBM-0000qu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:01:16 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nLBD-0000pe-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:01:08 +0100 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id PAA07785; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:03:54 +0100 (BST) Received: (qmail 1765 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 14:51:01 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 14:51:01 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id OAA00231; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:36:01 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma029944; Wed, 11 Apr 01 14:35:36 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:06:29 +0100 Received: by frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:59:57 +0100 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C044D@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: More QRM ? Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:58:58 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The military ARE very concerned. That is one of the main reasons (along with the BBC and RSGB pressure) that the UK limit has been set much lower, and even that was 10 - 20dB up on what we really wanted. Representations are being made via NATO and other defence organisations, but seem to be falling on deaf ears where Germany is concerned. Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stewart.bryant@virgin.net] > Sent: 2001-04-11 14:18 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: More QRM ? > > > I wonder if the European Human Rights Legislation applies and takes > prescient? This change in the noise floor takes away our right and > pre-existing ability to communicate with other human beings via a > natural phenomina. > > The Human Rights legislation has had a considerable impact in the UK > in forcing the government to change their policies. > > I would have thought that the military would have taken a serious > view about the loss of this resource. I also understand that > there is a > new MF broadcast digital entertainment system that would be effected > by this. Why have both of these lobby groups been quite on this? > > 73 > > Stewart G3YSX > > > Hans-Joachim Brandt wrote: > > > Dear all, > > > > in order to convert just words into figures I feel it > necessary to describe the > > situation in Germany more in detail. > > > > The german NB30 standard has been rejected by all german > radio users and > > radio equipment manufacturers since it has been proposed. > For those who know the > > british MPT 1570 the problem is that NB30 allows > interfering fieldstrengths 20 > > dB higher. But even the resistance of the german > broadcasters could not prevent > > the adoption of the NB30 standard. The declared aim of the > german government > > and the upper house of parliament has been to give "modern > telecommunications > > technologies" a chance. The CENELEC standard on CATV > systems covering 5 MHz to > > 3000 MHz has also been aligned to the NB30 limits earlier, > at least in the HF > > and VHF-UHF range. (NB is simply a german abbreviation for > Nutzungsbestimmung = > > operational condition or regulation. There are other NB > numbers within the > > german frequency allocation table.) > > > > A radio amateur living in a house in which cables are > operated under the > > conditions of the NB30 and having a half wave antenna 10 > meters away from his > > house will have to expect the following calculated S meter readings: > > > > Band, MHz 1,8 3,6 7 14 > 21 28 > > NB30 > > dB(muV/m) 37,8 35,1 32,6 > 29,9 28,4 27,3 > > S-Meter S9 +12 dB S9 +3 dB S8 > S6-7 S5-6 S5 > > > > I hope the table will be delivered in the same order in > which I have typed it. > > > > The second line gives the interfering fieldstrength > permitted by NB30. The > > situation is bad, especially for QRPers. But all efforts of > DARC to prevent such > > a decision were in vain. > > > > Regarding the frequency depending levels of the NB30 it > must be stated that it > > will allow VDSL and telecommunication over CATV, but only > low-level PLC. > > High-level PLC producing interfering fieldstrengths of 80 > dB(muV/m) or even > > more, is not permitted, this being the reason for the > SIEMENS company to leave > > the PLC business some weeks ago. ASCOM (who now will supply > power line companies > > which formerly had decided to use SIEMENS equipment) has > claimed in a newspaper > > interview that NB30 low-level PLC would not enable a bit > failure rate > > sufficiently low for 75% of all mains outlets. Therefore > PLC becomes more costy, > > less dependable, repeaters are needed etc. The real winners > of the german > > government decision seem to be those companies which will > operate VDSL over > > telephone lines because they will have no (or only few) > problems to meet the > > NB30 radiation levels. We know that in the U. K. the MPT > 1570 (the range 1.6 to > > 30 MHz, from December 1999) is also under pressure because > its low levels even > > do not permit VDSL operation, but offers much better > protection for radio > > services. > > > > The European Commission is also in favour of PLC, because a > network independant > > of the telephone net could be used. But after the PLC Forum > had conducted a PLC > > workshop before the Commission, where strong opposition by > radio users had been > > presented, the Commission is said to be at least unsafe > whom to believe. But > > basically the Commission still thinks that a compromise > with radio users should > > be possible, and still hopes that a standard would solve > all problems. > > > > For the time being, german radio amateurs hope, of course, > that this german > > example will not be copied by other nations and that > european standardization > > (especially the way being carried out in CEPT SE35) will > result in lower > > interference radiation levels, for the benefit of radio > services. And we also > > hope that the german administration will be able to > effectively control the NB30 > > limits throughout the country; otherwise a chaos would > develop, no question. > > > > Sorry to report such a situation here over the server. > > > > 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB > > > > Andre' Kesteloot schrieb: > > > Power lines win German support > > > By Reuters > > > March 30, 2001, 11:05 a.m. PT > > > FRANKFURT--Germany's Bundesrat upper house of parliament > on Friday > > > cleared > > > regulatory hurdles for the so-called power-line > technology for fast > > > Internet > > > access via electricity lines. A statement issued by the economics > > > ministry > > > in Berlin said three laws setting out the conditions for > power-line > > > operations had been approved, clearing the way for nationwide > > > implementation > > > in the 16 states in due course. > > > > > > The move gives power line the chance of competing with > other established > > > > > > communications channels such as cable television and > telephone networks. > > > > > > Analysts say that by delivering high-speed Internet > connections through > > > residential wall sockets, utilities could break the phone > companies' > > > grip on > > > Internet access while also offsetting recent losses due > to shrinking > > > retail > > > power margins. > > > > > > Story Copyright C 2001 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. > > > > > > > > > > > > > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16085 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 14:01:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 14:01:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 17836 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 14:00:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 14:00:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nL5b-0000kV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:55:19 +0100 Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nL5Y-0000kQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:55:16 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.102.233]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 10:54:10 -0300 Message-ID: <3AD4C8FB.94F65F10@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:13:32 -0700 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: wolf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, I saw the spectrum plot Alberto provided of Valerio's wolf transmission. What an ugly sight. It takes between 15 and 20 Hz of specytum space. With 30 sec dots I can receive and separate a station every 250 millihertz. In other words In the space of one wolf transmission 60 to 80 QRSS stations could be trying to have QSOs. I do not doubt the fact that the wolf experiments are worthwhile from a testing of technology point of view. I feel, however, that wolf as currently configured is not a worthwhile mode for general amateur operation in the small 136kHz band. I especially resent the attitude of VA3LK that he would transmit regardless of potential QRM to others as stated in one of his emails. Current transmissions above 137.5 kHz will not cause much trouble. As interest in the band grows and more countries get on the band, We will have to very carefully choose modes of operation which provide the best combination of bandwidth consumed compared with communication efficiency, coupled with ease of use. So far I vote for DFCW and QRSS. I looked last night but saw nil. 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 907 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 13:34:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 13:34:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 19228 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 13:34:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 13:34:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nKcL-0000XF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:25:05 +0100 Received: from chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nKcH-0000XA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:25:01 +0100 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-1-126.easynet.co.uk [195.40.206.126]) by chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 946FEF88A0 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:24:33 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <000801c0c28a$f092c5c0$7ece28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: Technical (but not very) - Loops Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:25:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: From: Tom Boucher > Contemplating making one of Peter's 'Superloop' antennas and find that I > have aprox. 100 metres of Crawley Litz in stock. Now Peter's article sez > I have to cut 11 x 16.3m lengths of wire = 180 metres of wire, so I > haven't got enough. > > But before I go rushing off to Derek to buy some more, a simple sum > casts some doubt on Peter's calculations. His loop has 2 metre sides and > it has 4 sides so one turn equals 8 metres, not 16m, in which case I > have enough Litz! Yes, you have it right Tom Make it 8.3m to take into account the 90 degree couplers and to have enough for making the connections. Tin the ends of the wires before putting them in the plastic tube - its easier that way. I will be updated the web page. > > Am I missing something, or should I go back to school for a refresher > course in sums? I think that it is I who need the refresher course! Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3535 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 13:31:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 13:31:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 7144 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 13:30:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 13:30:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nKXn-0000WX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:20:23 +0100 Received: from jaws.cisco.com ([198.135.0.150] helo=cisco.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nKX8-0000Vx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:19:43 +0100 Received: from virgin.net (stbryant-isdn-home.cisco.com [10.49.137.202]) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA01876 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:18:42 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AD45970.EC20DE1B@virgin.net> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:17:37 +0100 From: "Stewart Bryant" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: More QRM ? References: <3AD37870.409FD8D8@ieee.org> <14n81Z-1IfNWjC@fwd00.sul.t-online.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I wonder if the European Human Rights Legislation applies and takes prescient? This change in the noise floor takes away our right and pre-existing ability to communicate with other human beings via a natural phenomina. The Human Rights legislation has had a considerable impact in the UK in forcing the government to change their policies. I would have thought that the military would have taken a serious view about the loss of this resource. I also understand that there is a new MF broadcast digital entertainment system that would be effected by this. Why have both of these lobby groups been quite on this? 73 Stewart G3YSX Hans-Joachim Brandt wrote: > Dear all, > > in order to convert just words into figures I feel it necessary to describe the > situation in Germany more in detail. > > The german NB30 standard has been rejected by all german radio users and > radio equipment manufacturers since it has been proposed. For those who know the > british MPT 1570 the problem is that NB30 allows interfering fieldstrengths 20 > dB higher. But even the resistance of the german broadcasters could not prevent > the adoption of the NB30 standard. The declared aim of the german government > and the upper house of parliament has been to give "modern telecommunications > technologies" a chance. The CENELEC standard on CATV systems covering 5 MHz to > 3000 MHz has also been aligned to the NB30 limits earlier, at least in the HF > and VHF-UHF range. (NB is simply a german abbreviation for Nutzungsbestimmung = > operational condition or regulation. There are other NB numbers within the > german frequency allocation table.) > > A radio amateur living in a house in which cables are operated under the > conditions of the NB30 and having a half wave antenna 10 meters away from his > house will have to expect the following calculated S meter readings: > > Band, MHz 1,8 3,6 7 14 21 28 > NB30 > dB(muV/m) 37,8 35,1 32,6 29,9 28,4 27,3 > S-Meter S9 +12 dB S9 +3 dB S8 S6-7 S5-6 S5 > > I hope the table will be delivered in the same order in which I have typed it. > > The second line gives the interfering fieldstrength permitted by NB30. The > situation is bad, especially for QRPers. But all efforts of DARC to prevent such > a decision were in vain. > > Regarding the frequency depending levels of the NB30 it must be stated that it > will allow VDSL and telecommunication over CATV, but only low-level PLC. > High-level PLC producing interfering fieldstrengths of 80 dB(muV/m) or even > more, is not permitted, this being the reason for the SIEMENS company to leave > the PLC business some weeks ago. ASCOM (who now will supply power line companies > which formerly had decided to use SIEMENS equipment) has claimed in a newspaper > interview that NB30 low-level PLC would not enable a bit failure rate > sufficiently low for 75% of all mains outlets. Therefore PLC becomes more costy, > less dependable, repeaters are needed etc. The real winners of the german > government decision seem to be those companies which will operate VDSL over > telephone lines because they will have no (or only few) problems to meet the > NB30 radiation levels. We know that in the U. K. the MPT 1570 (the range 1.6 to > 30 MHz, from December 1999) is also under pressure because its low levels even > do not permit VDSL operation, but offers much better protection for radio > services. > > The European Commission is also in favour of PLC, because a network independant > of the telephone net could be used. But after the PLC Forum had conducted a PLC > workshop before the Commission, where strong opposition by radio users had been > presented, the Commission is said to be at least unsafe whom to believe. But > basically the Commission still thinks that a compromise with radio users should > be possible, and still hopes that a standard would solve all problems. > > For the time being, german radio amateurs hope, of course, that this german > example will not be copied by other nations and that european standardization > (especially the way being carried out in CEPT SE35) will result in lower > interference radiation levels, for the benefit of radio services. And we also > hope that the german administration will be able to effectively control the NB30 > limits throughout the country; otherwise a chaos would develop, no question. > > Sorry to report such a situation here over the server. > > 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB > > Andre' Kesteloot schrieb: > > Power lines win German support > > By Reuters > > March 30, 2001, 11:05 a.m. PT > > FRANKFURT--Germany's Bundesrat upper house of parliament on Friday > > cleared > > regulatory hurdles for the so-called power-line technology for fast > > Internet > > access via electricity lines. A statement issued by the economics > > ministry > > in Berlin said three laws setting out the conditions for power-line > > operations had been approved, clearing the way for nationwide > > implementation > > in the 16 states in due course. > > > > The move gives power line the chance of competing with other established > > > > communications channels such as cable television and telephone networks. > > > > Analysts say that by delivering high-speed Internet connections through > > residential wall sockets, utilities could break the phone companies' > > grip on > > Internet access while also offsetting recent losses due to shrinking > > retail > > power margins. > > > > Story Copyright C 2001 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. > > > > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21765 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 13:27:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 13:27:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 27920 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 13:27:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 13:27:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nKXq-0000We-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:20:26 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06lmsgate-3.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nKXd-0000W0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:20:13 +0100 Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by d06lmsgate-3.uk.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id OAA154036 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:10:13 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (ss6.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.71]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id OAA135654 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:19:01 +0100 Message-ID: <3AD45975.D92DAF2E@usa.net> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 15:17:41 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: VERY TECHNICAL: Comports and Delphi References: <28743670.986928810075.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: john sexton wrote: > Hi fellow programmers, > Sorry to use the reflector for this purpose, but I know there are a lot of > Delphi programmers out there. > Can anyone tell me how to read from the COM1 port using Delphi and 32-bit > Windows? It has got to be simple, but I just can't find it amongst the > mountain of information. Regrettably C++ answers won't help. > Many thanks in advance, > John, G4CNN > Hi John, my suggestion is language-independent. Check the Windows APIs CreateFile, GetCommModemStatus and ReadFileEx. Using CreateFile you specify COM1 as file name and get in return a handle. Then you call GetCommModemStatus with this handle, and you have in return the status of CTS, DTR, etc. if this is what you want to do. If instead you want to read the actual data present on COM1, you use the ReadFileEx, again using the handle returned by the CreateFile. Using Windows API will guarantee you (within limits...) that your program will survive a Windows version upgrade. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8786 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 13:11:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 13:11:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 4708 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 13:11:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 13:11:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nKHr-0000PU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:03:55 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nKHq-0000PP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:03:54 +0100 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14nKHN-0001YI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:03:25 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <19084.200104111303@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:03:27 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: WOLF - a question In-reply-to: <3AD4550E.24139.D4F389@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Mike, LF Group, When trying to recover a noisy signal with Wolf, it seems to be sufficient to set the audio level so that the louder bangs and cracks cause overload of the soundcard, but most of the time clipping is not occurring. I do this using Spectrum Lab's input monitor scope display, setting audio level so the normally green trace blinks red on the noise peaks every few seconds. I have not used Cool Edit in anger, but looking in the help files indicates that the 0dB level is the overload point. There are also a couple of overload indicators just to the right of the 0dB marks; however, once "lit", these stay on, so are not very useful in this context. I think setting the audio level so that 0dB is reached only on noise peaks should be OK. Ignore very big peaks, so long as they only cause occasional overloads. The audio level is not very critical - I think the figure quoted is signal should be between 20dB and 50dB down on overload level. If the signal is not audible with the noise level set as above, this condition will be satisfied. If the signal is audible, setting the signal level so it is about 20 - 30dB down on the overload level seems to work well. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24511 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 13:05:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 13:05:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 16640 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 13:05:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 13:05:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nKBu-0000JA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:57:46 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nKBq-0000Iz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:57:42 +0100 Received: from d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.147]) by d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.COM (1.0.0) with ESMTP id NAA141028 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:40:02 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (ss4.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.69]) by d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id NAA248478 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:56:43 +0100 Message-ID: <3AD45442.158F7A1F@usa.net> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 14:55:30 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: WOLF - a question References: <3AD4550E.24139.D4F389@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike Dennison wrote: > One of the several variables that I need to get right is the audio level. I > understand I need to get this within a few dB of -20db or so relative to the > overload point of my sound card. > > The question is how do I find that point? > [snip] > Is there an easy way to set the audio level to optimum? Some software > perhaps? > Mike, you need a software that measure the level averaged on the 20 Hz or so tha a Wolf signal occupies. The latest build of Argo can measure levels referred to the saturation point of the ADC, but just in a single FFT bin, which, in full band view, is only about 2.7 Hz, so much less than needed. You could use the 'log to file' new feature of Argo to record the magnitudes of a few seconds of signal, and then write your own software for post-processing it, to compute the average on the 20 Hz of band. Perhaps you could just use Excel, without the need to write a real program. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25781 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 12:10:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 12:10:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 4476 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 12:10:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 12:10:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nJJw-00000O-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:02:00 +0100 Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nJJu-00000B-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:01:59 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:58:56 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:58:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: WOLF - a question Message-ID: <3AD4550E.24139.D4F389@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: One of the several variables that I need to get right is the audio level. I understand I need to get this within a few dB of -20db or so relative to the overload point of my sound card. The question is how do I find that point? On my old computer, I had 'meters' associated with the volume controls comprising a bar graph which was green up to a point when it became red. At least this showed what may be the overload point. My present computer does not have these graphs. I make the recordings using Cool Edit, and although this has a dB scale, it is difficult to determine what this is relative to. Is there an easy way to set the audio level to optimum? Some software perhaps? Another related question. The last few recordings I made of Valerio, had very strong QRN and intermittent local electrical noise peaks, several tens of dB above his signal. Should I ignore these when setting the level? Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11743 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 12:08:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 12:08:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 29110 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 12:08:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 12:08:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nJJw-00000M-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:02:00 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nJJu-00000A-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 13:01:58 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:46:51 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:46:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Wolf - IK5ZPV not received Message-ID: <3AD45238.15003.C9E343@localhost> In-reply-to: <9755.200104111034@gemini> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: M0BMU wrote: > I made 3 recordings of IK5ZPV's "Wolf" signals on 137.5kHz last > night; one made between 2000 and 2025utc produced no decoded > results, however the other 2, from between 2100 and 2200, both > decoded without problems after the 2nd and 3rd data frames > respectively. I also made two recordings but failed to decode either. In both cases the pm figure was zero, and the f was 0.980, whatever setting I used for -r and -f. I am fairly sure this means I was not receiving a signal. This is in marked contrast to the recording I have from a few days ago when I get sensible pm and f readings even when there is no readability. I will be away from Thursday for ten days, but will try to record Valerio tonight and Larry in the small hours of the morning. Is there a way to make recording on a timer - I don't think that Cool Edit will do this? After I return from holiday, I will do further work on WOLF. I am gradually getting to know what the data readouts mean, and how to recognise when I am nearly decoding a signal. I am still not convinced I have -r correct but attempts to set it by scientific means have all produced poorer results than by trial and error. As a further suggestion to the software kings, having a few seconds of unmodulated carrier built into the transmission every now and again would help the receive station to determine whether a signal is present (using a spectrogram). Now, I can't tell the difference between poor readability and no signal. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24537 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 11:55:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 11:55:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 27812 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 11:55:27 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 11:55:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nJ76-0008Pe-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:48:44 +0100 Received: from rhun.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.26]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nJ6a-0008PY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:48:12 +0100 Received: from ea.esoterica.pt (ea.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.204]) by rhun.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f3BBleq15390 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:47:40 +0100 (WEST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from slave2 (por408.esoterica.pt [195.22.18.109]) by ea.esoterica.pt (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA28088 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 12:47:40 +0100 (WET DST) Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010411114736.0084fd10@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:47:36 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: IK5ZPV received agn In-reply-to: <9755.200104111034@gemini> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Valerio, I made a recording of 30 mins between 2030 and 2100 and although there seemed to be some sort of lock which gave repeated data the decode was not correct. 73, Brian At 11:34 11/04/01 +0000, you wrote: >Dear Valerio, LF Group, > >I made 3 recordings of IK5ZPV's "Wolf" signals on 137.5kHz last >night; one made between 2000 and 2025utc produced no decoded >results, however the other 2, from between 2100 and 2200, both >decoded without problems after the 2nd and 3rd data frames >respectively. The message was "TST IK5ZPV 10W", and the >indicated frequency offset was between +0.15 and +0.4Hz. We are >now reaching what must be QRP by anyone's standards, and there >still seems to be some margin on signal strength. Conditions >seemed to be quite noisy last night, so lower powers should be >possible. > >Valerio - I would be interested to know some details of TX >equipment and antenna you are using for these tests - seems to be >working well , whatever it is! > >Cheers, Jim Moritz >73 de M0BMU > > > 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 80 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 10:41:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 10:41:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 11386 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 10:41:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 10:41:26 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nHxH-0007wb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:34:31 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nHxE-0007wW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:34:28 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14nHwo-0005RZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:34:02 +0100 Message-ID: <9755.200104111034@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:34:05 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: IK5ZPV received agn X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Valerio, LF Group, I made 3 recordings of IK5ZPV's "Wolf" signals on 137.5kHz last night; one made between 2000 and 2025utc produced no decoded results, however the other 2, from between 2100 and 2200, both decoded without problems after the 2nd and 3rd data frames respectively. The message was "TST IK5ZPV 10W", and the indicated frequency offset was between +0.15 and +0.4Hz. We are now reaching what must be QRP by anyone's standards, and there still seems to be some margin on signal strength. Conditions seemed to be quite noisy last night, so lower powers should be possible. Valerio - I would be interested to know some details of TX equipment and antenna you are using for these tests - seems to be working well , whatever it is! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10015 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 09:15:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 09:15:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 11088 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 09:15:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 09:15:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nGdG-0007ND-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 10:09:46 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d12lmsgate.de.ibm.com ([195.212.91.199]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nGdC-0007N4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 10:09:42 +0100 Received: from d12relay02.de.ibm.com (d12relay02.de.ibm.com [9.165.215.23]) by d12lmsgate.de.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id LAA166056 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:08:44 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (ss10.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.76]) by d12relay02.de.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id LAA183264 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:05:01 +0200 Message-ID: <3AD41EC8.56E2F268@usa.net> Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 11:07:20 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Spectrum of Wolf signal References: <28743670.986928810075.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, should someone be interested in seeing the spectrum of the Wolf signal of IK5ZPV of yesterday evening, it can be found here: http://www.qsl.net/i2phd/argo/wolf.html 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25449 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 09:04:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 09:04:22 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 6683 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 09:04:14 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 09:04:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nGRW-0007KX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 09:57:38 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nGRR-0007KR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 09:57:33 +0100 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14nGR1-000021-0K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 08:57:07 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 09:05:05 +0100 To: "RSGB LF Group" From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: LF: Technical (but not very) - Loops MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all Contemplating making one of Peter's 'Superloop' antennas and find that I have aprox. 100 metres of Crawley Litz in stock. Now Peter's article sez I have to cut 11 x 16.3m lengths of wire = 180 metres of wire, so I haven't got enough. But before I go rushing off to Derek to buy some more, a simple sum casts some doubt on Peter's calculations. His loop has 2 metre sides and it has 4 sides so one turn equals 8 metres, not 16m, in which case I have enough Litz! Am I missing something, or should I go back to school for a refresher course in sums? 73, Tom G3OLB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10113 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 08:10:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 08:10:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 10227 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 08:10:45 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 08:10:45 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nFcs-0006yd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 09:05:18 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nFcn-0006yY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 09:05:14 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA171474 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 10:04:46 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010411090615.2c67942c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 09:06:15 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: VERY TECHNICAL: Comports and Delphi In-reply-to: <28743670.986928810075.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi John, What do you want to do ? If you just want to 'toggle' 1 or 2 lines in order to key a TX or so you can easily write the code yourself, but if you need real RS232 communication I would suggest to use one of the many freeware components instead of indulging yourself into windows API. I had a look on the HD and saw that I have collected about 8 components that support serial communication, if you're interested I can mail them directly to you (it's about 1MB all together). Most of them can be used from Delphi 3 upward but at least one can be used from Delphi 1 upward. If you just want to 'toggle' some lines I can send you a piece of code I used with the QRS software. 73, Rik ON7YD At 11:53 10/04/01 -0700, you wrote: >Hi fellow programmers, >Sorry to use the reflector for this purpose, but I know there are a lot of >Delphi programmers out there. >Can anyone tell me how to read from the COM1 port using Delphi and 32-bit >Windows? It has got to be simple, but I just can't find it amongst the >mountain of information. Regrettably C++ answers won't help. >Many thanks in advance, >John, G4CNN > > > > > >_______________________________________________________ >Send a cool gift with your E-Card >http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11434 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 07:32:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 07:32:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 25552 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 07:32:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 07:32:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nF02-0006hJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 08:25:10 +0100 Received: from tor-smtp3.attcanada.ca ([207.181.101.71] helo=attcanada.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14nEzy-0006hE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 08:25:07 +0100 Received: from david (ham-on57-166.netcom.ca [142.154.69.62]) by attcanada.ca (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA02441 for ; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 03:24:39 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <009c01c0c24f$b0ecfca0$6655872c@david> From: "Tenty" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Fw: New German law may make shortwave unusable in Europe (PLT) Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 07:21:47 +0100 Organization: Holland Data and Wireless MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This from the qrp list ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: April 6, 2001 15:49 PM Subject: [GQRP] New German law may make shortwave unusable in Europe (PLT) This is no joke: On March 30 the German Government signed an act that allows the generation of noise levels on all frequencies up to 30 MHz that will make most uses of shortwave impossible. We expect other european countries to follow. As nearly all information we found about this subject is written in german, we are trying to translate the most important to english. As you can see :-), we need some support for that. Please see http://www.egroups.de/group/save-shortwave/ for details. Thank you for your attention, 73, Falk - DL3DAZ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1691 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 02:05:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 02:05:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 29331 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 02:05:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 02:05:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14n9ub-0004qU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 02:59:13 +0100 Received: from tomts5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.25] helo=tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14n9ua-0004qP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 02:59:13 +0100 Received: from server1 ([216.209.110.143]) by tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010411015812.GKBE963.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 21:58:12 -0400 Message-ID: <002d01c0c22a$cd8b0930$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3ACDB0F5.81DDDECC@ieee.org> Subject: LF: VA3LK WOLFing every night Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 21:57:38 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings: I have begun WOLFing on 137.790 from 01 utc to 02 utc every night. The arrival of spring here in eastern Ontario has reduced my ground losses and the signal is somewhat better than before. If someone has transmitting resources for WOLF and wishes to try I will maintain the receive setup and be prepared to go to the remote site any time of night to attempt to complete a QSO. I am also transmitting to ZL / VK every night, but that starts just as the sun rises in Europe. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24577 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 00:08:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 00:08:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 5219 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2001 00:08:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Apr 2001 00:08:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14n829-0004Al-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 00:58:53 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout01.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.80]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14n827-0004Ag-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 00:58:51 +0100 Received: from fwdtmp0.sul.t-online.com by mailout01.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14n81f-0008D1-03; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 01:58:23 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (087321565-0001@[217.2.65.121]) by fwd00.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14n81Z-1IfNWjC; Wed, 11 Apr 2001 01:58:17 +0200 From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3AD37870.409FD8D8@ieee.org> Subject: Re: LF: More QRM ? X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Wed, 11 Apr 2001 01:58:17 +0200 Message-ID: <14n81Z-1IfNWjC@fwd00.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all, in order to convert just words into figures I feel it necessary to describe the situation in Germany more in detail. The german NB30 standard has been rejected by all german radio users and radio equipment manufacturers since it has been proposed. For those who know the british MPT 1570 the problem is that NB30 allows interfering fieldstrengths 20 dB higher. But even the resistance of the german broadcasters could not prevent the adoption of the NB30 standard. The declared aim of the german government and the upper house of parliament has been to give "modern telecommunications technologies" a chance. The CENELEC standard on CATV systems covering 5 MHz to 3000 MHz has also been aligned to the NB30 limits earlier, at least in the HF and VHF-UHF range. (NB is simply a german abbreviation for Nutzungsbestimmung = operational condition or regulation. There are other NB numbers within the german frequency allocation table.) A radio amateur living in a house in which cables are operated under the conditions of the NB30 and having a half wave antenna 10 meters away from his house will have to expect the following calculated S meter readings: Band, MHz 1,8 3,6 7 14 21 28 NB30 dB(muV/m) 37,8 35,1 32,6 29,9 28,4 27,3 S-Meter S9 +12 dB S9 +3 dB S8 S6-7 S5-6 S5 I hope the table will be delivered in the same order in which I have typed it. The second line gives the interfering fieldstrength permitted by NB30. The situation is bad, especially for QRPers. But all efforts of DARC to prevent such a decision were in vain. Regarding the frequency depending levels of the NB30 it must be stated that it will allow VDSL and telecommunication over CATV, but only low-level PLC. High-level PLC producing interfering fieldstrengths of 80 dB(muV/m) or even more, is not permitted, this being the reason for the SIEMENS company to leave the PLC business some weeks ago. ASCOM (who now will supply power line companies which formerly had decided to use SIEMENS equipment) has claimed in a newspaper interview that NB30 low-level PLC would not enable a bit failure rate sufficiently low for 75% of all mains outlets. Therefore PLC becomes more costy, less dependable, repeaters are needed etc. The real winners of the german government decision seem to be those companies which will operate VDSL over telephone lines because they will have no (or only few) problems to meet the NB30 radiation levels. We know that in the U. K. the MPT 1570 (the range 1.6 to 30 MHz, from December 1999) is also under pressure because its low levels even do not permit VDSL operation, but offers much better protection for radio services. The European Commission is also in favour of PLC, because a network independant of the telephone net could be used. But after the PLC Forum had conducted a PLC workshop before the Commission, where strong opposition by radio users had been presented, the Commission is said to be at least unsafe whom to believe. But basically the Commission still thinks that a compromise with radio users should be possible, and still hopes that a standard would solve all problems. For the time being, german radio amateurs hope, of course, that this german example will not be copied by other nations and that european standardization (especially the way being carried out in CEPT SE35) will result in lower interference radiation levels, for the benefit of radio services. And we also hope that the german administration will be able to effectively control the NB30 limits throughout the country; otherwise a chaos would develop, no question. Sorry to report such a situation here over the server. 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB Andre' Kesteloot schrieb: > Power lines win German support > By Reuters > March 30, 2001, 11:05 a.m. PT > FRANKFURT--Germany's Bundesrat upper house of parliament on Friday > cleared > regulatory hurdles for the so-called power-line technology for fast > Internet > access via electricity lines. A statement issued by the economics > ministry > in Berlin said three laws setting out the conditions for power-line > operations had been approved, clearing the way for nationwide > implementation > in the 16 states in due course. > > The move gives power line the chance of competing with other established > > communications channels such as cable television and telephone networks. > > Analysts say that by delivering high-speed Internet connections through > residential wall sockets, utilities could break the phone companies' > grip on > Internet access while also offsetting recent losses due to shrinking > retail > power margins. > > Story Copyright C 2001 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19570 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2001 21:39:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Apr 2001 21:39:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 17988 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2001 21:39:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Apr 2001 21:39:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14n5lQ-0003Gj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:33:28 +0100 Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14n5lP-0003Ge-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:33:27 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.70.47]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 18:32:13 -0300 Message-ID: <3AD3B4EC.672721FB@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 21:35:40 -0400 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: lf test Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all I have been looking when able . Had big (60 cm ) snow storm 8 days ago and only getting back to normal. Was looking intermittantly over weekend and last night. Dont need continuous tx. 10 min at top of hour es 10 min on half hour would suffice Please , any who will be tryinf XATL let me know your schedules. Was looking for Laurie but no luck 128.9 has at times been S-7 73 all de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26166 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2001 21:19:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Apr 2001 21:19:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 26443 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2001 21:19:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 10 Apr 2001 21:19:08 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14n5Ro-0003AE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:13:12 +0100 Received: from [206.46.170.141] (helo=smtp9ve.mailsrvcs.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14n5Rk-0003A9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 22:13:09 +0100 Received: from ieee.org (client-151-200-117-33.bellatlantic.net [151.200.117.33]) by smtp9ve.mailsrvcs.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id QAA13354; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 16:12:10 -0500 (CDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AD37870.409FD8D8@ieee.org> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 17:17:37 -0400 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "lf-amrad" , "AMRAD Tacos" , "Rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: More QRM ? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by smtp9ve.mailsrvcs.net id QAA13354 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Power lines win German support By Reuters March 30, 2001, 11:05 a.m. PT FRANKFURT--Germany's Bundesrat upper house of parliament on Friday cleared regulatory hurdles for the so-called power-line technology for fast Internet access via electricity lines. A statement issued by the economics ministry in Berlin said three laws setting out the conditions for power-line operations had been approved, clearing the way for nationwide implementation in the 16 states in due course. The move gives power line the chance of competing with other established communications channels such as cable television and telephone networks. Analysts say that by delivering high-speed Internet connections through residential wall sockets, utilities could break the phone companies' grip on Internet access while also offsetting recent losses due to shrinking retail power margins. Story Copyright © 2001 Reuters Limited. All rights reserved. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6100 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2001 19:16:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Apr 2001 19:16:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 13842 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2001 19:15:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Apr 2001 19:15:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14n3UT-0002NY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 20:07:49 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14n3UQ-0002NT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 20:07:47 +0100 Received: from [213.1.101.1] (helo=j1r9b7) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14n3U0-0000rG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 20:07:21 +0100 Message-ID: <002301c0c1f1$4cbce1e0$016501d5@j1r9b7> From: "Derek Atter" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3AD2D0CE.23045.117384@localhost> Subject: Re: LF: Coil Losses Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 19:25:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike, Re your plan to try a loading coil with thinner Litz wire - CARC still have plenty of Litz in various thinner gauges if you need any. Regards - Derek Atter G3GRO ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Dennison" To: Sent: Tuesday, April 10, 2001 9:22 AM Subject: Re: LF: Coil Losses > Yet again, many thanks to Jim for helping to clarify a technical point. > > > One problem with ferrite cores is saturation - if the magnetic flux in > > the core exceeds a certain point, the core effectively loses it's > > magnetism over the peaks in the current waveform in the coil, > > which can give rise to harmonic generation as well as excessive > > heating of the ferrite. If you put a ferrite core into a coil carrying a > > particular current, the magnetic flux density there is in the core > > depends on the shape of the coil and core - a long, thin rod along > > the axis of the core will be subject to much greater flux density than > > a short, fat core. > > Ah. That is probably why my lumps of old broken pot core work well in the > 73kHz coil - I actually used one with the wire still in it and this seemed to have > no bad effect! > > > Another factor that is important when deciding the type of coil to > > make is the voltage it has to withstand. A 7mH coil with, say, 3A @ > > 136kHz going through it has about 18kV across its terminals, So > > insulating an inductor wound on a pot-core would be quite a > > challenge at this level, especially for outdoors use. > > I certainly had not planned to use a pot core as a former, rather to tape bits of > ferrite - probably of the SMPSU grade - to a plastic water pipe and place it > inside the existing drinks bottle former. I expect at least 70 per cent air > spacing. > > I am away at Easter but will do some tests later this month on practical cores, > and will report back to the group. > > I do have an alternative strategy, and that is to get some thinner Litz wire so > the same physical size coil can give greater inductance, but then resistance > may be an issue again. > > > > > Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) > http://www.lf.thersgb.net > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27417 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2001 19:01:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Apr 2001 19:01:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 27017 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2001 19:01:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Apr 2001 19:01:28 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14n3HY-0002H8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 19:54:28 +0100 Received: from bucky-rwcmex.excite.com ([198.3.99.218] helo=bucky.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14n3HX-0002H3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 19:54:27 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from chilly.excite.com ([199.172.153.77]) by bucky.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010410185330.KADZ25251.bucky.excite.com@chilly.excite.com> for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 11:53:30 -0700 Message-ID: <28743670.986928810075.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 11:53:28 -0700 (PDT) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: VERY TECHNICAL: Comports and Delphi MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 62.253.64.5 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi fellow programmers, Sorry to use the reflector for this purpose, but I know there are a lot of Delphi programmers out there. Can anyone tell me how to read from the COM1 port using Delphi and 32-bit Windows? It has got to be simple, but I just can't find it amongst the mountain of information. Regrettably C++ answers won't help. Many thanks in advance, John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29274 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2001 14:27:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 10 Apr 2001 14:27:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 26088 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2001 13:44:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Apr 2001 13:44:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14myKk-0000ME-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 14:37:26 +0100 Received: from mta21-acc.tin.it ([212.216.176.74] helo=fep21-svc.tin.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14myKg-0000M9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 14:37:22 +0100 Received: from mailsrv.dii.unisi.it ([212.171.197.252]) by fep21-svc.tin.it (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with ESMTP id <20010410133623.ENTC10372.fep21-svc.tin.it@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 15:36:23 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AD30AF4.BA427CE@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 15:30:28 +0200 From: "valerio gabbani" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: IK5ZPV - strong sigs References: <1158.200104101044@gemini> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz wrote: > Dear Valerio, LF group, > > I recorded signals from IK5ZPV from 2000 - 2025, and 2130 - > 2155 last night - a broad trace was visible on the spectrogram, and > Wolf decoded the message within the first data frame with both > recordings, so I guess Valerio was running higher power than at > the end of last week. Indicated frequency offset was approximately > +0.4Hz. After about 2145, the BPSK disappeared, and a CW > carrier was visible, which would have been 'O' copy 3s/dot QRSS. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU Jim and others, My power was 60 W in antenna untill 21:20 UTC, than i switched to 30 W. The stop in modulation was due to a crash in my computer. This evening start again at 20:00 UTC but with 10 W. 73 de IK5ZPV,Valerio From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13887 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2001 10:53:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Apr 2001 10:53:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 9799 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2001 10:52:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 10 Apr 2001 10:52:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mveQ-0007pN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 11:45:34 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mvdx-0007pH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 11:45:05 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14mvdD-0007kJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 11:44:19 +0100 Message-ID: <1158.200104101044@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 11:44:19 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: IK5ZPV - strong sigs X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Valerio, LF group, I recorded signals from IK5ZPV from 2000 - 2025, and 2130 - 2155 last night - a broad trace was visible on the spectrogram, and Wolf decoded the message within the first data frame with both recordings, so I guess Valerio was running higher power than at the end of last week. Indicated frequency offset was approximately +0.4Hz. After about 2145, the BPSK disappeared, and a CW carrier was visible, which would have been 'O' copy 3s/dot QRSS. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21213 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2001 08:37:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Apr 2001 08:37:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 14507 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2001 08:37:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Apr 2001 08:37:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mtYG-00070f-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 09:31:04 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mtYB-00070a-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 09:30:59 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Tue, 10 Apr 2001 09:22:23 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 10 Apr 2001 09:22:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Coil Losses Message-ID: <3AD2D0CE.23045.117384@localhost> In-reply-to: <13641.200104091824@gemini> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Yet again, many thanks to Jim for helping to clarify a technical point. > One problem with ferrite cores is saturation - if the magnetic flux in > the core exceeds a certain point, the core effectively loses it's > magnetism over the peaks in the current waveform in the coil, > which can give rise to harmonic generation as well as excessive > heating of the ferrite. If you put a ferrite core into a coil carrying a > particular current, the magnetic flux density there is in the core > depends on the shape of the coil and core - a long, thin rod along > the axis of the core will be subject to much greater flux density than > a short, fat core. Ah. That is probably why my lumps of old broken pot core work well in the 73kHz coil - I actually used one with the wire still in it and this seemed to have no bad effect! > Another factor that is important when deciding the type of coil to > make is the voltage it has to withstand. A 7mH coil with, say, 3A @ > 136kHz going through it has about 18kV across its terminals, So > insulating an inductor wound on a pot-core would be quite a > challenge at this level, especially for outdoors use. I certainly had not planned to use a pot core as a former, rather to tape bits of ferrite - probably of the SMPSU grade - to a plastic water pipe and place it inside the existing drinks bottle former. I expect at least 70 per cent air spacing. I am away at Easter but will do some tests later this month on practical cores, and will report back to the group. I do have an alternative strategy, and that is to get some thinner Litz wire so the same physical size coil can give greater inductance, but then resistance may be an issue again. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25455 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 22:00:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 22:00:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 5972 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 22:00:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 22:00:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mjZI-0003Os-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2001 22:51:28 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from e21.nc.us.ibm.com ([32.97.136.227]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mjZE-0003On-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2001 22:51:24 +0100 Received: from southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.208]) by e21.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA78152; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 17:45:18 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (ss8.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.73]) by southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id RAA29636; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 17:50:12 -0400 Message-ID: <3AD22E4A.F7CC498D@usa.net> Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 23:48:58 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Mailing List" , lowfer@qth.net, dsp-weak-signal@qth.net Subject: LF: Stupid mistake in Argo build 127 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I made a very stupid mistake in build 127 of Argo. The signal strength indicator is wrong by a factor of two. So please download build 128, in the hope that there are no other errors stupid as this one (this must not be construed as to imply that sophisticated errors are acceptable :-) Thanks to Bob, ZL2CA for pointing it out. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15005 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 18:32:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 18:32:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 16322 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 18:32:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 18:32:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mgLU-00029n-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2001 19:25:00 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mgLJ-00029i-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2001 19:24:50 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14mgKq-00054N-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2001 19:24:20 +0100 Message-ID: <13641.200104091824@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 19:24:16 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Coil Losses X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Mike, LF Group, Placing a ferrite core in a coil will always increase the inductance, and will also result in losses due to hysteresis, eddy currents, and dielectric loss in the ferrite, all of which result in heating of the core. Whether the Q increases or decreases depends on many things, such as the type of core material, the geometry of the core and the number of turns and disposition of the windings. At LF, ferrite losses are usually quite low. For a given overall size of coil, the reduced number of turns required to obtain a given inductance, and the thicker wire which can be used as a result, reduces resistive losses in the wire, and usually more than compensates for the additional losses due to the ferrite. So the ferrite cored coil can have a higher Q. However, you can usually make an enormous air-cored coil if you want, wheras very big ferrite cores are hard to come by, and are very heavy. But if small size is important, ferrite cores could be worth a go. One problem with ferrite cores is saturation - if the magnetic flux in the core exceeds a certain point, the core effectively loses it's magnetism over the peaks in the current waveform in the coil, which can give rise to harmonic generation as well as excessive heating of the ferrite. If you put a ferrite core into a coil carrying a particular current, the magnetic flux density there is in the core depends on the shape of the coil and core - a long, thin rod along the axis of the core will be subject to much greater flux density than a short, fat core. So poking ferrite rods into loading coils gives them a really hard time, and a given type of rod should show less heating if several short ones in a bundle are used instead of one long one . The flux density also depends upon the permeability of the ferrite - lower permeability means lower flux density, which may be why some ferrite rods work better than others. However, lower permeability or increased cross-section means that more ferrite is required to reach the neccessary inductance. The inevitable result is that a large mass of ferrite will be required for high power use. Another factor that is important when deciding the type of coil to make is the voltage it has to withstand. A 7mH coil with, say, 3A @ 136kHz going through it has about 18kV across its terminals, So insulating an inductor wound on a pot-core would be quite a challenge at this level, especially for outdoors use. Although it may give lower inductance for it's size, a solenoid has the advantage that the high voltage points are as far apart as possible. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21163 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 15:15:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 15:15:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 7224 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 15:15:43 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 15:15:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mdHW-0000tc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2001 16:08:42 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mdHT-0000tX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2001 16:08:39 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA258314 for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 17:08:13 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010409160945.0a8f042e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 16:09:45 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: CFH recordings : summary In-reply-to: <6375.200104061217@gemini> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello group, I received 2 very interesting pictures from Alan, G3NYK, and Markus, DF6NM. They show a summary of the CFH recordings in the period September - Decemebr 2000. I did put them on the web, together with some comments from Alan, have a look at http://www.qsl.net/on7yd/cfh_sum.htm 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 505 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 15:11:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 15:11:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 3347 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 15:11:23 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 15:11:23 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mdBe-0000oh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2001 16:02:38 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mdBa-0000oc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2001 16:02:35 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA242126 for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 17:02:09 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010409160341.5a776cde@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 16:03:41 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: LF Antennas In-reply-to: <3AD1CF30.6786.1365B96@localhost> References: <3.0.1.16.20010409105259.2dcf3d4e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <3AD184E8.16011.1431BD@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Mike, Have a look at : http://www.wireless.org.uk/dk5pt-f.htm It shows a very small loading coil (using a pot core) made by DK5PT. 73, Rik ON7YD >Just to clarify, the problem I am trying to fix is to get the lowest loss 7mH >coil on top of the mast with minimum visual impact. I am already doing this >with a lot of wire on a drain pipe, but at the expense of resistive loss. My >Litz coil (with thicker wire) is the same physical size, much lower loss but >half the inductance. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1043 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 14:25:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 14:25:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 11891 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 14:25:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 14:25:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mcUF-0000WC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2001 15:17:47 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mcTk-0000W3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2001 15:17:16 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Mon, 09 Apr 2001 15:03:15 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 15:03:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: LF Antennas Message-ID: <3AD1CF30.6786.1365B96@localhost> In-reply-to: <3.0.1.16.20010409105259.2dcf3d4e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <3AD184E8.16011.1431BD@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G2AJV wrote > >> If you load it with ferrite you will certainly increase its inductance and > >> also its efficacy as a receiving antenna but the radiation efficiency on > >> tx will decrease accordingly (the difference between B and H). I replied: > >If it is less efficient, where does the lost power go? I am puzzled. ON7YD wrote: > I'm using a loading coil with ferrite rod for 'fine tuning' the antenna (I > can slide the rod in/out the coil). Without rod the coil is 700uH, with the > rod I can tune it from 800-1500uH. The Q is 400 without the rod and sinks > to 300 (at 800uh) - 250 (at 1500uH). > So the rod introduces an extra loss of 0.5 to 2 Ohms, looks quite > acceptable to me (compared to the +/- 120 Ohm overall loss it is less than > 0.1dB). > But the choise of rod is very important, I tried all (+/- 20) rods I had in > my possesion and found only one that was good. With most other rods the Q > of the coils 'crashed' to below 150 and I even managed to break a rod (by > heating) with 200W RF power. > > With the right rod it works fine, at least for a rather small coil. But I > believe that you want to make a +/- 4mH coil. So assuming you can make a > 2mH coil with a Q of 400 and you find the right rod you can make a 4mH coil > with a Q of 250. This would respresent a loss resistance of 13 Ohm (versus > 7 Ohm for a similar coil with a Q of 400). > > Regarding 'where goes the power' : a bit will be dissipated by the rod (it > will heat). I have done a lot of work with ferrites in order to get the 12mH or so that I need to get me onto the 73kHz band. I have found, as you and others have, that broadcast type ferrite gets very hot. Plainly power is lost here. I have at present some bits of ferrite from broken up audio pot-cored coils, and these seem to work fine, getting only slightly warm after long periods of QRSS. I presume that if the ferrite stays cool, the lost power is insignificant, compared to the additional turns required to achieve this inductance without ferrite. My 4mH coil goes to well over 7mH when only a small amount of ferrite is inside, so I do not expect to fill the former completely with ferrite - perhaps 10% will be enough. Even if there is a loss of efficiency, since I am replacing a 7mH ordinary wire coil with a 3mH Litz-wound coil, my resistive losses before ferrite loading must be much lower. So long as the ferrite loading (to get the 3mH up to 7mH) does not increase the losses too much, I am still gaining. If the losses are not heat, then where are they? The R has not changed, and it is my understanding that a ferrite-cored inductor has a higher Q than an air cored one. Certainly any radiation from the coil will be altered, but the coil is only 300mm long in an antenna 32m long. This radiation will be very small indeed. I am still puzzled at Roger's remarks. I hesitate to argue with someone so clever and experienced, so have I missed something? Just to clarify, the problem I am trying to fix is to get the lowest loss 7mH coil on top of the mast with minimum visual impact. I am already doing this with a lot of wire on a drain pipe, but at the expense of resistive loss. My Litz coil (with thicker wire) is the same physical size, much lower loss but half the inductance. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20263 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 12:24:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 12:24:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 8915 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 12:23:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 12:23:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14maU2-0008FW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2001 13:09:26 +0100 Received: from mta15-acc.tin.it ([212.216.176.46] helo=fep15-svc.tin.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14maTy-0008FR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2001 13:09:22 +0100 Received: from mailsrv.dii.unisi.it ([212.171.201.193]) by fep15-svc.tin.it (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with ESMTP id <20010409120851.JDOQ536.fep15-svc.tin.it@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 14:08:51 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AD1A4F1.6FA97A36@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 14:02:57 +0200 From: "valerio gabbani" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: IK5ZPV - still going strong References: <14672.200104091048@gemini> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz wrote: > Dear Valerio, > > Was out Friday/Saturday/Sunday, so unable to listen for your Wolf > signals - but would like to try lower power levels, so if you can be > QRV tonight or during the next few days, I will certainly be listening > for you. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU Jim, I plan to transmit every evening (the next one also) starting from 20:00 UTC to 22:00 UTC with QRPP (not more than 40W ant. input power. Wil, Sunday evening i tried with pheraps too low power (5W), try again the next evenings. '73 to all, Valerio From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4520 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 10:03:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 10:03:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 18853 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 10:03:41 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 10:03:41 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mYL1-0007Kk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2001 10:51:59 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mYKv-0007Iv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2001 10:51:54 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA497474 for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 11:51:27 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010409105259.2dcf3d4e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 09 Apr 2001 10:52:59 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: LF Antennas In-reply-to: <3AD184E8.16011.1431BD@localhost> References: <200104080615_MC2-CBA7-9063@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 09:46 9/04/01 +0100, you wrote: > >> If you load it with ferrite you will certainly increase its inductance and >> also its efficacy as a receiving antenna but the radiation efficiency on >> tx will decrease accordingly (the difference between B and H). >> 73, > >Roger, > >If it is less efficient, where does the lost power go? I am puzzled. Hello Mike, I'm using a loading coil with ferrite rod for 'fine tuning' the antenna (I can slide the rod in/out the coil). Without rod the coil is 700uH, with the rod I can tune it from 800-1500uH. The Q is 400 without the rod and sinks to 300 (at 800uh) - 250 (at 1500uH). So the rod introduces an extra loss of 0.5 to 2 Ohms, looks quite acceptable to me (compared to the +/- 120 Ohm overall loss it is less than 0.1dB). But the choise of rod is very important, I tried all (+/- 20) rods I had in my possesion and found only one that was good. With most other rods the Q of the coils 'crashed' to below 150 and I even managed to break a rod (by heating) with 200W RF power. With the right rod it works fine, at least for a rather small coil. But I believe that you want to make a +/- 4mH coil. So assuming you can make a 2mH coil with a Q of 400 and you find the right rod you can make a 4mH coil with a Q of 250. This would respresent a loss resistance of 13 Ohm (versus 7 Ohm for a similar coil with a Q of 400). Regarding 'where goes the power' : a bit will be dissipated by the rod (it will heat). 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28769 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 08:54:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 08:54:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 12097 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 08:53:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 08:53:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mXLb-0006uv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2001 09:48:31 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mXLJ-0006uo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2001 09:48:14 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Mon, 09 Apr 2001 09:46:23 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 09:46:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: LF Antennas Message-ID: <3AD184E8.16011.1431BD@localhost> In-reply-to: <200104080615_MC2-CBA7-9063@compuserve.com> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > If you load it with ferrite you will certainly increase its inductance and > also its efficacy as a receiving antenna but the radiation efficiency on > tx will decrease accordingly (the difference between B and H). > 73, Roger, If it is less efficient, where does the lost power go? I am puzzled. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23095 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 07:56:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 07:56:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 6421 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 07:56:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 07:56:47 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mWRW-0006c4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2001 08:50:34 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mWRV-0006bz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2001 08:50:33 +0100 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id IAA27278; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 08:53:22 +0100 (BST) Received: (qmail 24848 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 08:40:37 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 08:40:37 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id IAA29068; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 08:25:48 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma029026; Mon, 9 Apr 01 08:25:20 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-3.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 08:56:02 +0100 Received: by frn-mail-3.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <2MRA5M5D>; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 08:49:31 +0100 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C043F@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Helical antennas Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 08:49:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The normal mode helix was covered in some detail in a 1974 (!!) edition of Radio Communication with a set of empirically determined equations for calculating resonance and winding dimensions. Seem to remember it was by the famous D A Tong, but I may be mixing it up with another article. I found the equations to be a good starting point from which to fine tune helials for HF. Used to have a copy of that RadCom, and it may still be lying on a shelf somewhere. Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: g3ldo [mailto:g3ldo@ukonline.co.uk] > Sent: 2001-04-06 21:06 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: Helical antennas > > > Does anyone have a description of how the helical antenna > (not the axial > mode antenna), like the one built by Toni HB9ASB, works? > > Tony made a lot of tests and concluded that most of the > radiation came from > the helical coil rather than the top loading, see page 58 of the LF > handbook. > > Regards, > Peter, G3LDO > > e-mail > > Web > > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7175 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 07:51:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 07:51:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 3191 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 07:51:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 07:51:15 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mWMB-0006X3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2001 08:45:03 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mWM5-0006Wy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2001 08:44:58 +0100 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id IAA04052; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 08:47:40 +0100 (BST) Received: (qmail 24228 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 08:34:55 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 08:34:55 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id IAA28208; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 08:20:06 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma028082; Mon, 9 Apr 01 08:19:38 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-3.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id ; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 08:50:20 +0100 Received: by frn-mail-3.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <2MRA5M44>; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 08:43:49 +0100 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C043E@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, "API \(E-mail\)" , "API-HOME \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: LF Roundtable / Forum - new venue Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 08:44:01 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The LF forum that was to have been held at the Crawley ARC and unfortunately had to be cancelled due to foot in mouth, will now take place at the Flight Refuelling Amateur Radio Society a week later than the original scheduled date, on Sunday 20 May. FRARS is located at Merley rear Wimborne in Dorset, at the junction of the A31 and A349 roads. Directions and a map will appear nearer the date. It is planned to keep to a format very similar to that of the Microwave Roundtables, with a bring and buy / natter session during the morning and a programme of short lectures / discussions in the afternoon. Is anyone prepared to offer a short lecture or two ? Please contact me or John G0API if so. (The weeks delay is due to the fact that FRARS are operating in a 70MHz contest on the 13 th and I am running in a 10 mile road race that day) Andy G4JNT -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14930 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 07:17:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 07:17:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 16491 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2001 07:16:49 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Apr 2001 07:16:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mVo8-0006Lj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2001 08:09:52 +0100 Received: from gate3.oss.akzonobel.nl ([192.87.3.7]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mVo7-0006Le-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 09 Apr 2001 08:09:51 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from fwmaster@localhost) by gate3.oss.akzonobel.nl (8.9.1a/8.6.12) id JAA24963 for ; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 09:08:55 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by gate3.oss.akzonobel.nl via smap (V1.3) id smaa23627; Mon, 9 Apr 01 09:07:36 +0200 Received: by triton.oss.akzonobel.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <2K0PBHXQ>; Mon, 9 Apr 2001 09:07:36 +0200 Message-ID: <639D20177889D41198A600508BAD3CA1011EEDD6@capella3.oss.akzonobel.nl> From: "Laken, W.H.P.A. van der \(Wil\)" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: IK5ZPV - Wolf Date: Mon, 9 Apr 2001 09:07:29 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Valerio, I made 3 recordings (sunday 20:00 - 21:00) but was not able to decode anything. 73 Wil pa0bwl From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21848 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2001 22:53:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Apr 2001 22:53:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 23417 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2001 22:53:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Apr 2001 22:53:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mNzd-0003NP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 Apr 2001 23:49:13 +0100 Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mNzc-0003NK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 Apr 2001 23:49:12 +0100 Received: from modem-10.astaldo.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.129.10] helo=g3aqc) by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14mNzC-0000yT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 Apr 2001 23:48:47 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c0c075$a3f4a600$0a81883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re Beacon Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 22:46:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Beacon on again tonight, 135.922.  73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6938 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2001 22:02:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Apr 2001 22:02:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 24963 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2001 22:02:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 8 Apr 2001 22:02:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mN8f-000326-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 Apr 2001 22:54:29 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mN8e-000321-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 Apr 2001 22:54:29 +0100 Received: from [62.7.94.221] (helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14mN8D-0000va-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 Apr 2001 22:54:02 +0100 Message-ID: <001901c0c076$2b978c80$dd5e073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots for 7/8th April at GB7DXM Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 22:51:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, not much again this week. I was out at Bletchley on Saturday, we had a nice chat with Andy, Stewart, Jim, Dave (MRF) and Graham, after "annexing" the Microwave Committee stand for half an hour. ( Have these LFers no conscience?? ) I did not start monitoring on Sunday until about 0900z and saw very little activity. The cluster stops are a bit thin too. 136.6 DJ1ZB 8-Apr-2001 1013Z in qso w. DJ7RD 136.6 DJ7RD 8-Apr-2001 1013Z 137.7 DF6NM 8-Apr-2001 0853Z cq dfcw 136.8 DL3FDO 8-Apr-2001 0810Z cq 136.8 OZ8NJ 7-Apr-2001 1809Z hr.op Reiner 136.6 OK1FIG 7-Apr-2001 1214Z cq cq cq 137.7 OM2TW 1-Apr-2001 0901Z 136.5 F6CNI 31-Mar-2001 2027Z in QSO with G8RW 136.6 OM5CW 31-Mar-2001 1942Z cq 136.5 OK1DTN 31-Mar-2001 1639Z rst 529 on my beveravge ! cq G3NYK de GB7MRS 8-Apr-2001 2106Z > Cheers de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25426 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2001 18:35:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 8 Apr 2001 18:35:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 5230 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2001 18:35:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Apr 2001 18:35:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mJwS-0001qR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 Apr 2001 19:29:40 +0100 Received: from fep01.swip.net ([130.244.199.129] helo=fep01-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mJwR-0001qM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 Apr 2001 19:29:39 +0100 Received: from W98 ([212.151.89.101]) by fep01-svc.swip.net (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20010408182922.IKZI66.fep01-svc.swip.net@W98> for ; Sun, 8 Apr 2001 20:29:22 +0200 Message-ID: <001801c0c059$b8d89d40$655997d4@W98.swipnet.se> From: "C Andersson" To: "RSGB LF Group" Subject: LF: Decca 1876 schematic needed Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 20:28:33 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Kjell, SM1LCA is looking for a Decca 1876 transmitter schematic. There are four SJ757 transistors in each PA module. Any information appreciated. thanks sm6pxj, Christer From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21439 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2001 12:52:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 8 Apr 2001 12:52:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 21437 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2001 12:52:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Apr 2001 12:52:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mEZX-0008Op-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 Apr 2001 13:45:39 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from e21.nc.us.ibm.com ([32.97.136.227]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mEZV-0008Ok-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 Apr 2001 13:45:37 +0100 Received: from southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.208]) by e21.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA87382; Sun, 8 Apr 2001 08:39:41 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (ss3.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.68]) by southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id IAA69932; Sun, 8 Apr 2001 08:44:58 -0400 Message-ID: <3AD05D0D.D37FBF9F@usa.net> Date: Sun, 08 Apr 2001 14:43:57 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Mailing List" , lowfer@qth.net, dsp-weak-signal@qth.net Subject: LF: Argo beta 1 build 127 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, I have just uploaded Argo beta 1 build 127 to the weaksignals Web site : http://www.weaksignals.com >From the Readme file : Beta 1, build 127 (Apr. 8th 2001) - Added the 20s dot mode, upon request. - Right-clicking with the mouse on the spectrogram toggles between full band view and the current dot mode, without changing the center frequency. - The Visual Gain can now be set to : AGC, Low, High - The length of the ticks is selectable between short (as before) and long (full stroke across the spectrogram). - The peak frequency is now computed with a quadratic interpolation between three consecutive bins. - An indicator of the relative signal magnitude has been added, both near the field showing the mouse cursor frequency, and as a floating text that follows the cursor. The 0 dB reference level can be selected between the magnitude of a monochromatic signal that would just saturate the ADC of the sound card, or the magnitude of a signal arbitrarily selected with the mouse. The relative magnitude displayed near the peak frequency is however always referred to the ADC full scale. The dB display has a lower limit of -80 dB (computers still have to learn the concept of negative infinity...) - A couple of logging features have been added : - Serial Log : The frequencies of the ten strongest frequency components are output to COM1 or COM2 (selectable), sorted in decreasing magnitude order. This can be used for FDK experiments, or for DFCW outboard decoding. Thanks to Steve Olney, VK2ZTO for the idea and the serial output routine. - File Log : the magnitudes of all the bins displayed in the current running mode are logged to a file, with a comma-delimited format, useful to be imported in, let's say, Excel or Access. The file name and the logging interval are selectable, and each snapshot is time-stamped. For both forms of logging, see the Readme for the exact format. - Some code adjustment, tuning (should require less memory) and error correction. As usual, please send to me bug reports, and any feedback you may have on the program. TNX 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7911 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2001 10:24:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Apr 2001 10:24:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 603 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2001 10:24:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 8 Apr 2001 10:24:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mCFZ-0007XW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 Apr 2001 11:16:53 +0100 Received: from ds-img-7.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.153] helo=spdmbaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14mCFY-0007XR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 08 Apr 2001 11:16:52 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmbaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id GAA04879 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 8 Apr 2001 06:15:56 -0400 (EDT) Date: Sun, 8 Apr 2001 06:15:27 -0400 From: "boffin1" Subject: Re: LF: LF Antennas To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200104080615_MC2-CBA7-9063@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike, If you load it with ferrite you will certainly increase its inductance and also its efficacy as a receiving antenna but the radiation efficiency on tx will decrease accordingly (the difference between B and H). 73, Roger, G2AJV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11079 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2001 20:45:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Apr 2001 20:45:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 16037 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2001 20:45:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 7 Apr 2001 20:45:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lzTo-0002eJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2001 21:38:44 +0100 Received: from mail3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lzTn-0002eE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2001 21:38:43 +0100 Received: from modem-108.dor-lomin.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.155.236] helo=g3aqc) by mail3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14lzTN-0003AS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2001 21:38:17 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c0bf9a$3df7e960$ec9b883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. T/A Cdx. Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 20:37:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi Dex and all,
I will transmit again tonight, just to see what happens!
Lightning does'nt seem too bad over there. Freq 135.922
DFCW 30 sec dots. Start 2200 utc. 73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19892 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2001 17:26:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Apr 2001 17:26:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 596 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2001 17:26:01 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 7 Apr 2001 17:26:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lwLe-0001PY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2001 18:18:06 +0100 Received: from dargolad.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.27]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lwLd-0001PT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2001 18:18:05 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ea.esoterica.pt (ea.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.204]) by dargolad.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f37HHcP08990 for ; Sat, 7 Apr 2001 18:17:38 +0100 (WEST) Received: from slave2 (por224.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.224]) by ea.esoterica.pt (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA05168 for ; Sat, 7 Apr 2001 18:17:38 +0100 (WET DST) Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010407171621.0084d570@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 17:16:21 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: LF: A Wolf Transmission MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Gentlemen, The band has been superbly quiet all day since the street lights went off this morning. There are a superb set of loran lines on my wideband recording, both the signal on 136 and DCF39 have been strong all day but are tailing off now, I think SXV is idling. Would anybody like to transmit some low-ish power wolf before the street lights come on again? Time now 1715 utc and light up time will be around 1915utc. 73, Brian 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10831 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2001 08:37:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Apr 2001 08:37:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 5986 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2001 08:37:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 7 Apr 2001 08:37:19 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lo7X-0006j5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2001 09:30:59 +0100 Received: from pop09-acc.tin.it ([212.216.176.72] helo=fep19-svc.tin.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lo7W-0006j0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2001 09:30:59 +0100 Received: from mailsrv.dii.unisi.it ([212.171.197.105]) by fep19-svc.tin.it (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with ESMTP id <20010407083032.YCXT24915.fep19-svc.tin.it@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> for ; Sat, 7 Apr 2001 10:30:32 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3ACECEC7.BFA82475@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> Date: Sat, 07 Apr 2001 10:24:39 +0200 From: "valerio gabbani" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: IK5ZPV - still going strong References: <639D20177889D41198A600508BAD3CA1011EEDD5@capella3.oss.akzonobel.nl> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: "Laken, W.H.P.A. van der (Wil)" wrote: > Valerio, > > Is it possible for you to send (low power) sunday evening from 20:00 on? > I was not available yesterday and will not be available today. > > 73 Wil (pa0bwl) > > Will, I will send QRP this evening and Sunday evening starting from 20:00 UTC. Weather forecast say thunderstorms at my QTH, so my be possible i cannot transmit at sked time. '73 Valerio From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12853 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2001 07:17:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Apr 2001 07:17:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 762 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2001 07:17:16 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 7 Apr 2001 07:17:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lmrj-0006Kz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2001 08:10:35 +0100 Received: from gate3.oss.akzonobel.nl ([192.87.3.7]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lmri-0006Ks-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 07 Apr 2001 08:10:34 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from fwmaster@localhost) by gate3.oss.akzonobel.nl (8.9.1a/8.6.12) id JAA25869 for ; Sat, 7 Apr 2001 09:09:39 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by gate3.oss.akzonobel.nl via smap (V1.3) id sma025640; Sat, 7 Apr 01 09:09:18 +0200 Received: by triton.oss.akzonobel.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <2K0PBCMF>; Sat, 7 Apr 2001 09:09:18 +0200 Message-ID: <639D20177889D41198A600508BAD3CA1011EEDD5@capella3.oss.akzonobel.nl> From: "Laken, W.H.P.A. van der \(Wil\)" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: IK5ZPV - still going strong Date: Sat, 7 Apr 2001 09:09:15 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Valerio, Is it possible for you to send (low power) sunday evening from 20:00 on? I was not available yesterday and will not be available today. 73 Wil (pa0bwl) >Jim, >I will be on the air again this evening starting from 20:00 UTC but with >only 10 W !!! >Frequency generator is a DDS driven by a 10 MHz crystall oscillator >without any frequency stabilization. > >Thanks to the other for the reports. > >'73 Valerio From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7553 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 20:11:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 20:11:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 23485 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 20:11:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 20:11:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lcV5-0002D1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2001 21:06:31 +0100 Received: from latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.40]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lcV4-0002Cw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2001 21:06:30 +0100 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-13-9.easynet.co.uk [212.134.22.9]) by latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 470D553752 for ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 21:06:05 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <000901c0bed5$2b67ac60$091686d4@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Helical antennas Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 21:06:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Does anyone have a description of how the helical antenna (not the axial mode antenna), like the one built by Toni HB9ASB, works? Tony made a lot of tests and concluded that most of the radiation came from the helical coil rather than the top loading, see page 58 of the LF handbook. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20104 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 19:29:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 19:29:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 25680 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 19:29:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 19:29:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lbp6-0001uU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2001 20:23:08 +0100 Received: from mail6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lbp5-0001uP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2001 20:23:07 +0100 Received: from modem-63.emeldir.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.193.63] helo=g3aqc) by mail6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14lboc-0005zs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2001 20:22:38 +0100 Message-ID: <001001c0bec6$82b25060$3fc1883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. T/A Cdx. Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 19:21:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi Alan,
I saw nothing from CFH last night! Ran the beacon for about an hour then blew fuses Hi! Will try some blind beaconing during these exceptional cdx .Who knows. 73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9233 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 18:18:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 18:18:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 9630 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 18:18:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 18:18:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14laj4-0001QO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2001 19:12:50 +0100 Received: from pop09-acc.tin.it ([212.216.176.72] helo=fep19-svc.tin.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14laj3-0001QG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2001 19:12:49 +0100 Received: from mailsrv.dii.unisi.it ([213.45.252.170]) by fep19-svc.tin.it (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with ESMTP id <20010406181208.QSDN24915.fep19-svc.tin.it@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> for ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 20:12:08 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3ACE0599.F80A399E@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 20:06:17 +0200 From: "valerio gabbani" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: IK5ZPV - still going strong References: <6375.200104061217@gemini> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz wrote: > Dear Valerio, LF Group, > > I made 3 x 25 minute recordings of IK5ZPV's Wolf beacon, starting > at 1900, 2000 and 2100 last night; all decoded OK. Indicated > frequency was between about +0.1Hz and +0.4Hz. The first > recording took some time to start decoding, but the second and > third decoded within the first 2 frames of data. So still plenty of > margin. No signal was visible on the spectrogram display, although > there were some funny "Luxemboug Effect" noises from time to > time. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU Jim, I will be on the air again this evening starting from 20:00 UTC but with only 10 W !!! Frequency generator is a DDS driven by a 10 MHz crystall oscillator without any frequency stabilization. Thanks to the other for the reports. '73 Valerio From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6291 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 12:23:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 12:23:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 15823 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 12:23:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 12:23:34 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lVC6-0007ZD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2001 13:18:26 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lVC4-0007Z8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2001 13:18:25 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14lVBf-0001lN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2001 13:17:59 +0100 Message-ID: <6375.200104061217@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 13:17:56 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: IK5ZPV - still going strong X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Valerio, LF Group, I made 3 x 25 minute recordings of IK5ZPV's Wolf beacon, starting at 1900, 2000 and 2100 last night; all decoded OK. Indicated frequency was between about +0.1Hz and +0.4Hz. The first recording took some time to start decoding, but the second and third decoded within the first 2 frames of data. So still plenty of margin. No signal was visible on the spectrogram display, although there were some funny "Luxemboug Effect" noises from time to time. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19511 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 12:11:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 12:11:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 6231 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 12:10:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 12:10:52 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lUzx-0007XC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2001 13:05:53 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lUzw-0007X7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2001 13:05:52 +0100 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14lUzW-0001XU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2001 13:05:26 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <5706.200104061205@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 13:05:19 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Bletchley In-reply-to: <28.13960c30.27fe2135@aol.com> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear David, LF group, Will hopefully be finding my way to Bletchley; what sort of time and place do people intend to meet up? Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16955 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 12:08:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 12:08:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 4500 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 12:08:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 12:08:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lUuk-0007RD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2001 13:00:30 +0100 Received: from [206.46.170.140] (helo=smtp8ve.mailsrvcs.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lUui-0007Qk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2001 13:00:29 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ieee.org (client-151-200-123-22.bellatlantic.net [151.200.123.22]) by smtp8ve.mailsrvcs.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id GAA10862; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 06:58:34 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <3ACDB0F5.81DDDECC@ieee.org> Date: Fri, 06 Apr 2001 08:05:10 -0400 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "lf-amrad" , "Rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Solar flares Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Go to http://spaceweather.com for to-the-minute information on solar flares, etc. 73 Andre' N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8727 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 07:33:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 07:33:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 12524 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 07:33:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 07:33:31 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lQdM-0005cz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2001 08:26:16 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lQdL-0005cu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2001 08:26:15 +0100 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id IAA20622; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 08:28:55 +0100 (BST) Received: (qmail 31072 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 08:16:23 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 08:16:23 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id IAA00910; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 08:01:48 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma000835; Fri, 6 Apr 01 08:01:14 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 08:31:27 +0100 Received: by frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 08:25:08 +0100 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C0432@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Bletchley Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 08:25:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: See you on the Microwave Committee stand ? 73 & 137kHz are microwave bands. Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: G0MRF@aol.com [mailto:G0MRF@aol.com] > Sent: 2001-04-05 20:28 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: Bletchley > > > Hi All. > > The RSGB 'VHF' rally at Bletchley is this weekend. > Is anyone from the reflector going? > Perhaps we could meet up for an LF chat, althought that would > probably be > interpreted as 6m among the 'microwavers' > > 73 > > David G0MRF > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29616 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 07:17:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 07:17:34 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 939 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 07:17:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 07:17:32 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lQQ8-0005bP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2001 08:12:36 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lQQ7-0005bK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2001 08:12:35 +0100 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14lQPi-00037i-0W for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 08:12:10 +0100 Message-ID: <42cU4BA26Vz6MwMv@telemetry.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 07:14:14 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: Re: LF: Bletchley In-reply-to: <28.13960c30.27fe2135@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In message <28.13960c30.27fe2135@aol.com>, G0MRF@aol.com writes >Hi All. > >The RSGB 'VHF' rally at Bletchley is this weekend. >Is anyone from the reflector going? >Perhaps we could meet up for an LF chat, althought that would probably be >interpreted as 6m among the 'microwavers' > ...or even microwaves amongst you picowavers! Won't be there - too far. 73, Tom 'OLB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18533 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 07:09:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 07:09:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 25669 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 07:09:07 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 07:09:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lQHK-0005W3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2001 08:03:30 +0100 Received: from gate3.oss.akzonobel.nl ([192.87.3.7]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lQHI-0005Vu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2001 08:03:29 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from fwmaster@localhost) by gate3.oss.akzonobel.nl (8.9.1a/8.6.12) id JAA12250 for ; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 09:02:32 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by gate3.oss.akzonobel.nl via smap (V1.3) id sma011798; Fri, 6 Apr 01 09:02:05 +0200 Received: by triton.oss.akzonobel.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <2K0PAT4B>; Fri, 6 Apr 2001 09:02:05 +0200 Message-ID: <639D20177889D41198A600508BAD3CA1011EEDCF@capella3.oss.akzonobel.nl> From: "Laken, W.H.P.A. van der \(Wil\)" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: [TECH] IK5ZPV received Date: Fri, 6 Apr 2001 09:02:04 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Valerio, I did some 'listening' yesterday 20:00-21:00 GMT. After measuring my soundcard, I made a few recordings with the following result: C:\Ham\Programs\Wolf>wolf -q wolfr3.wav -f 800 -r 8018.71 WOLF version 0.52 t: 24 f:-0.536 a: 0.4 dp:108.1 ci:11 cj:320 ./8IQC???C4O1DW ? t: 48 f: 0.952 a: 0.0 dp:104.8 ci: 3 cj:229 EACVV.PB5NB/FWI ? t: 96 f:-0.268 a: 1.4 dp:101.8 ci: 8 cj:155 VI0ZF5.9V7899ZE ? t: 192 f: 0.039 pm: 534 jm:499 RG5XZHZPV P I ? t: 288 f: 0.039 pm: 767 jm:499 TSTIK5ZPV - C:\Ham\Programs\Wolf>wolf -q wolfr.wav -f 800 -r 8018.71 WOLF version 0.52 t: 24 f: 0.613 a: 1.4 dp:107.9 ci:15 cj:230 .U1LUCYX3UUGY56 ? t: 48 f: 0.266 a: 1.4 dp:103.5 ci:10 cj:297 YY/BFFEG49FZ4U ? t: 96 f: 0.366 a: 1.5 dp:100.4 ci: 0 cj: 65 ???9P2PO8PI/VZ4 ? t: 192 f: 0.010 pm: 415 jm:585 1Y6YRX/R4U9P*P ? t: 288 f: 0.010 pm: 612 jm:585 TSTIK5ZPV - t: 384 f: 0.000 pm: 957 jm:584 TSTIK5ZPV - t: 480 f: 0.000 pm:1590 jm:584 TSTIK5ZPV - 73 Wil (PA0BWL) JO21ss From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12696 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 04:28:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 04:28:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 19113 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 04:28:26 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 04:28:26 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lNiG-0004WC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2001 05:19:08 +0100 Received: from outbound.charter.net ([24.216.159.200] helo=front005.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lNiF-0004W7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2001 05:19:07 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [24.240.102.247] (HELO z6l3g7.highnoonfilm.com) by front005.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4.3) with ESMTP id 1436971; Fri, 06 Apr 2001 00:18:09 -0400 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010405231457.036e10e0@highnoonfilm.com> X-Sender: les@highnoonfilm.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 23:18:01 -0500 To: lowfer@qth.net From: "Les Rayburn" Subject: LF: MFJ-854 RF Current Meter Cc: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I am considering purchasing the MFJ-854 RF Current Meter to use in testing 160-190khz LF antennas, as well as Medfer antennas in the 500-1700khz range. According to the catalog, the unit can accurately measure antenna current from 30ma up to 30 amps. It's range is stated to be 1mhz to 30mhz (but useable well beyond that). As anyone else used this unit on LF? Are there modifications that would make it more useable for Lowfer work? It is priced at $99.95 (US) and I think it would prove very helpful for improving the counterpoise, remote beacon antennas (where it is impractical to install a dedicated RF current meter, etc.) Thanks in advance... Les Rayburn, N1LF 4919 Cox Cove Helena, AL 35080 XMGR 184.8988khz WOLF Mode 1LF 187.300khz Looking for a challenge? Try the ultimate weak signal mode, on 1750 Meters! Visit the Noise Floor! http://www.highnoonfilm.com/xmgr From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13053 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 02:41:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 02:41:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 19336 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 02:41:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 02:41:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lM3L-0003nt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2001 03:32:47 +0100 Received: from neptune.imagenisp.com ([204.244.138.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lM3K-0003no-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2001 03:32:47 +0100 Received: from jsm (204.244.18.81 [204.244.18.81]) by neptune.imagenisp.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id 2LYCAKLR; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 19:32:30 -0700 Message-ID: <00ac01c0be41$f0ea1c00$5112f4cc@jsm> From: "Steve McDonald" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <2088.200104051422@gemini> Subject: LF: Re: [TECH] IK5ZPV received yet again Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 19:21:28 -0700 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >- It's certainly true that Wolf in it's present > form is not particularly "user friendly" Definately an understatement! I think if WOLF is ever going to dominate, this will have to change/evolve into something a LOT friendlier. At least with the present QRSS software, one can at least SEE the signal; the data stream that WOLF produces somehow seems too "clinical"! Another very real roadblock to this mode for many, is the stability/readout requirement. A mode that requires stability/readout to .1Hz is not going to fill the band with new activity. Just my $.02 worth. Steve / VE7SL From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6753 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 00:19:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 00:19:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 25431 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2001 00:19:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Apr 2001 00:19:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lJ2U-0002gw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2001 00:19:42 +0100 Received: from mail3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lJ2T-0002gr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2001 00:19:41 +0100 Received: from modem-113.boromir.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.141.113] helo=g3aqc) by mail3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14lJ24-0006h3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 06 Apr 2001 00:19:16 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c0be1e$663ddb00$718d883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re DFCW beacon Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 23:18:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Sorry had to shut down, fuses blown again. 73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8362 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2001 20:39:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Apr 2001 20:39:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 24014 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2001 20:38:54 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Apr 2001 20:38:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lGQX-0001UC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2001 21:32:21 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from dargolad.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.27]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lGQW-0001U7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2001 21:32:20 +0100 Received: from ea.esoterica.pt (ea.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.204]) by dargolad.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f35KVsE12661 for ; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 21:31:54 +0100 (WEST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from slave2 (por333.esoterica.pt [195.22.18.33]) by ea.esoterica.pt (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA01654 for ; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 21:31:53 +0100 (WET DST) Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010405203112.00849830@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 20:31:12 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: [TECH] IK5ZPV received yet again In-reply-to: <3ACC9140.89373DAA@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> References: <2088.200104051422@gemini> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Valerio, Not so good tonight. Street lights came on at 1907utc and goodbye low noise level! About 14min recording finishing at 1940utc C:\Wolf>wolf -q wolfrc.wav -r 8018.514 -f 800 WOLF version 0.52 t: 24 f: 0.916 a:-1.1 dp:103.8 ci:10 cj:434 EAM/PH/1IB/WQHM ? t: 48 f: 0.406 a:-1.5 dp:100.4 ci: 8 cj: 30 5OKBU5HREJN2ZBI ? t: 96 f: 0.497 a:-0.3 dp: 97.9 ci:13 cj:227 44/NM.XF9R596*H - t: 192 f:-0.684 pm: 121 jm:475 TWIGXPOJMEEE85U - t: 288 f:-0.264 pm: 146 jm:610 03YUH5/MQ*.C/WX ? t: 384 f:-0.938 pm: 206 jm:773 OHH1.DKYWKQ RH4 ? t: 480 f: 0.879 pm: 227 jm:717 N95XW5/2T8L1LAU ? t: 576 f:-0.068 pm: 260 jm:512 TSTIK5ZPV - t: 672 f:-0.068 pm: 264 jm:512 RNSCTNK2 ZE*6O3 ? t: 768 f:-0.068 pm: 284 jm:512 P*SK47B250M67L2 ? t: 864 f:-0.547 pm: 293 jm:638 Q4*F 3T3G09P3/4 ? t: 960 f:-0.547 pm: 319 jm:638 C*U2DX6W6DIRB/G ? Now 2030utc and have no other decode. 73, Brian At 17:37 05/04/01 +0200, you wrote: >Many thanks for the report to Brian, Mike and James. >I will be on the air again this evening, starting at 19:00 UTC to 22:00 UTC with 20 W of antenna imput power. >I'm courious to see at what power level my wolf signal is again readable in Great Britain. > >'73, Valerio > > > > 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1025 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2001 19:45:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Apr 2001 19:45:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 22655 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2001 19:45:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Apr 2001 19:45:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lFbe-0001B7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2001 20:39:46 +0100 Received: from cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.171]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lFbd-0001B2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2001 20:39:45 +0100 Received: from modem-150.green-chromis.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.22.150] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14lFbD-0007kA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2001 20:39:19 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c0bdff$ac590840$9616893e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re.DFCW beacon Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 19:38:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi All,
 I dont know wether the effects of the recent CMEs have dissipated yet, but I will run my beacon tonight just in case.
Same freq. 135.922 shift 0.15Hz. 30sec dots.I will start at about 2200utc. 73s Laurie
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24567 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2001 19:35:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 5 Apr 2001 19:35:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 3411 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2001 19:35:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Apr 2001 19:35:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lFR2-00015J-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2001 20:28:48 +0100 Received: from imo-m01.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lFR0-000158-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2001 20:28:46 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-m01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.14.) id l.28.13960c30 (4598) for ; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 15:27:49 -0400 (EDT) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <28.13960c30.27fe2135@aol.com> Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 15:27:49 EDT Subject: LF: Bletchley To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All. The RSGB 'VHF' rally at Bletchley is this weekend. Is anyone from the reflector going? Perhaps we could meet up for an LF chat, althought that would probably be interpreted as 6m among the 'microwavers' 73 David G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23933 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2001 19:08:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 5 Apr 2001 19:08:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 13432 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2001 19:08:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Apr 2001 19:08:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lEti-0000sl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2001 19:54:22 +0100 Received: from ds-img-7.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.153] helo=spdmbaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lEth-0000sg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2001 19:54:21 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmbaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id OAA23469 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 14:53:26 -0400 (EDT) Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 14:53:01 -0500 From: "boffin1" Subject: LF: LF Antennas To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200104051353_MC2-CB78-3CE5@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Peter, (quietly) Vector potential ! Regards, Roger. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6800 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2001 15:52:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Apr 2001 15:52:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 25907 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2001 15:52:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Apr 2001 15:52:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lBvw-0008CT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2001 16:44:28 +0100 Received: from mta09-acc.tin.it ([212.216.176.40] helo=fep09-svc.tin.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lBvu-0008CO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2001 16:44:27 +0100 Received: from mailsrv.dii.unisi.it ([212.171.197.245]) by fep09-svc.tin.it (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with ESMTP id <20010405154326.STWI7098.fep09-svc.tin.it@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> for ; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 17:43:26 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3ACC9140.89373DAA@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> Date: Thu, 05 Apr 2001 17:37:36 +0200 From: "valerio gabbani" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: [TECH] IK5ZPV received yet again References: <2088.200104051422@gemini> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Many thanks for the report to Brian, Mike and James. I will be on the air again this evening, starting at 19:00 UTC to 22:00 UTC with 20 W of antenna imput power. I'm courious to see at what power level my wolf signal is again readable in Great Britain. '73, Valerio From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3371 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2001 15:28:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Apr 2001 15:28:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 5807 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2001 15:28:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Apr 2001 15:28:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lBXr-000814-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2001 16:19:35 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout02.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.17]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lBXp-00080n-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2001 16:19:34 +0100 Received: from fwd06.aul.t-online.de by mailout02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14lBXM-0001BS-01; Thu, 05 Apr 2001 17:19:04 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.156.6.213]) by fwd06.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14lBXB-1wAN60C; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 17:18:53 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3ACC42B0.13606.2ECD7C@localhost> Subject: Re: LF: IK5ZPV received on WOLF X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 17:18:53 +0200 Message-ID: <14lBXB-1wAN60C@fwd06.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Lastly to Brian. How did you copy and paste the read-out into an e-mail? It's > a > very long time since I used a DOS-like program and have forgotten this > technique. > > Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) > http://www.lf.thersgb.net > > Hi Mike, may I answer ? 1. open ur DOS with the WOLF *.wav text 2. left mouse click on above left corner (file) 3. left mouse click on edit and then mark 4. point the mouse on the first letter u want to copy. left mouse click to select/mark the lines u wont to copy. 5. left mouse click on above left corner agn 6. left mouse click on edit agn and then copy 7. open ur mail u want to send 8. click right mouse click 9. click left mouse click on paste there u are regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19326 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2001 14:33:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Apr 2001 14:33:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 20165 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2001 14:33:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Apr 2001 14:33:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lAev-0007hT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2001 15:22:49 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14lAes-0007hO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2001 15:22:47 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14lAeS-0001n4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2001 15:22:20 +0100 Message-ID: <2088.200104051422@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 15:22:16 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: [TECH] IK5ZPV received yet again X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group,

I made 3 .wav file recordings on 137.5kHz between 2030 and 2200 last night. All three recordings decoded without problems within 1 or 2 frames of data, so clearly plently of margin yet - the BPSK signal was also just about visible on the spectrogram. I would reckon a 10dB reduction in TX power should be feasible. Wolf indicated the frequency stayed around -0.4Hz below the nominal value.

Re G3XDV's comments - It's certainly true that Wolf in it's present form is not particularly "user friendly" - I think most of the numbers it generates are basically diagnostics for the benefit of the programmer (bear in mind KK7KA describes his program as "a demonstration"). However, the f: column indicates the apparent difference in audio frequency (Hz) between the signal being decoded, and the nominal frequency set using the -f parameter in the command line. The jm: column indicates the timing offset between the TX and RX, and should remain constant within +/- 1 when things are set up properly, and a signal is being received. pm: is suggested as an indicator of signal strength, although it seems not always to give a very meaningful figure. None of these figures have much meaning if a signal is not actually being decoded, which limits their usefulness for setting-up purposes.

There are basically 2 variables that must be set up properly for the program to decode successfully. The most important is the -r correction for the sampling rate of the soundcard. The soundcard sampling rate affects both the apparent frequency of the signal as seen by the software and the timing of the data bits.If you think of the soundcard as a tape recorder, the -r value would be the exact speed at which the tape is running. The Wolf software needs to know this so it can 'replay' the recorded data at the correct speed. For example, if Wolf thinks the sample rate is 8000 samples/s but it is really 7950 samples/s, Wolf will be replaying the tape too fast, and the apparent frequency of the signal will be higher, and each data bit in the signal will be of shorter duration. So it is essential to have the -r correction for your soundcard before any other settings can be meaningfully determined.

The second variable is the -f switch which corrects for the frequency offset between TX and RX. There is potential for confusion here, because one can chose a value for -f that will offset the frequency error caused by the incorrect sampling rate, if this has not already been corrected. Although this will make Wolf see the right signal frequency, it will not correct the error in the bit timing caused by the sampling rate error. Wolf can cope with modest uncorrected frequency errors, such as up to 0.5Hz. I ususally set the -t frequency tolerance option to 1 Hz.

The bit timing is much more critical to Wolf than to other types of BPSK software, because Wolf aims to decode a noisy signal by looking at a very long run of a repeated message (up to 1536 seconds at 10bits/s = 15360bits); compare with Coherent ET1 mode, where each character is encoded separately as 16 bits in 1.6 seconds. In order to prevent the transmitted bits at the end of the run of data getting out of step with where the receiver is expecting them to be, accurate timing is required at both TX and RX ends. So, for example, in order to prevent TX and RX from getting out of sync by more than 0.1 bit periods in a run of 15360bits, it is neccessary to have the combined sample rate error of TX and RX less than (0.1/15360 x 8000 samples/sec) = 0.05 samples/sec, or about 6 parts per million. This problem can be overcome to some extent by using the -l command line switch, which causes Wolf to operate only on individual 960 bit long frames of data - but it also means the full signal recovery properties will not be obtained.

Methods of cal ibrating the sample rate were discussed some time back on the reflector - it is a pain to do, but once done it should not be neccessary to repeat often in the life of the soundcard, although I have doubts about whether a soundcard clock oscillator can be expected to maintain precision in the ppm range over an extended period. Personally, I think this is a good reason to move away from soundcards towards purpose-built "radio" A/D interfaces like the VE2IQ/G4JNT designs, where one has direct control over the sample rate. But then, I am not writing the program!

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1909 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2001 11:09:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 5 Apr 2001 11:09:14 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 2027 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2001 11:09:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Apr 2001 11:09:04 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14l7TF-0006NQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2001 11:58:33 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.91]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14l7TE-0006NL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2001 11:58:33 +0100 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14l7Sd-000403-0X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 11:57:56 +0100 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 10:34:25 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: Re: LF: LF Antennas In-reply-to: <3ACC3DBD.29010.1B787E@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In message <3ACC3DBD.29010.1B787E@localhost>, Mike Dennison writes >G4CNN wrote: > >> Regarding the use of a high loading coil, Mike (XDV) comments: It all gets back to the lessons we learned a long time ago about 160 metre mobile antennas. Get the loading coil above the roof of the car and you will be louder! 73, Tom G3OLB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20606 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2001 09:25:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 5 Apr 2001 09:25:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 6990 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2001 09:25:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Apr 2001 09:25:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14l5sd-0005jK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2001 10:16:39 +0100 Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14l5sc-0005jF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2001 10:16:38 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Thu, 05 Apr 2001 10:02:25 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 10:02:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: IK5ZPV received on WOLF Message-ID: <3ACC42B0.13606.2ECD7C@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I recorded ten minutes of Valerio's WOLF transmission last night and eventually decoded his transmission: "TSTIK5ZPV" then six spaces. The Good News: This was despite very loud QRN. He was running QRP. The first recording worked fine. The Bad News: Valerio was a good signal on QRSS, but it took me a very long time (hours) to get anything out of his WOLF transmission. QRSS would have been quicker! If I had not previously discovered the sound card correction factor (-r) by receiving Jim's huge signal, I would probably not have seen anything. There are so many variables and seemingly no way to work out how to set them, except by trial and error. It would help if I knew what the read-out means. Looking at other people's results doesn't give a clue either, as they are all different. Jim, you said that Valerio was drifting slightly. Did you deduce this from WOLF (if so, how?) or by looking at a spectrogram? I am still convinced that this mode shows promise, but like Brian, CT1DRP, I do not feel I know what I am doing. Trial and error does not give the same satisfaction as fine tuning something from a position of knowledge. Lastly to Brian. How did you copy and paste the read-out into an e-mail? It's a very long time since I used a DOS-like program and have forgotten this technique. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20030 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2001 09:24:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 5 Apr 2001 09:24:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 16747 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2001 09:24:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Apr 2001 09:24:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14l5t9-0005jR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2001 10:17:11 +0100 Received: from latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.40]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14l5t8-0005jM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2001 10:17:10 +0100 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-13-75.easynet.co.uk [212.134.22.75]) by latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B431253C38 for ; Thu, 5 Apr 2001 10:16:37 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <001101c0bdb1$411f3840$4b1686d4@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <14753488.986413695909.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Subject: Re: LF: LF Antennas Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 10:16:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: john sexton said: > Our experiences seem to confirm that this sort of size (i.e. of the order of > a couple of metres in diameter) and particularly the use of low resistance > Litz is optimum. > The number of turns is 10 in Peter's case and 36 in mine and I am still > unsure whether more or less is better... I confess to not having searched for an optimum L/C ratio; I just aimed for what seemed a reasonable LC ratio. The weight of the wire inside the loop enclosure was also a consideration. > Peter suggests that multistranded PVC covered wire would be a good > substitute where Litz is not available. I cannot agree with this - I first > wound my loop with this type of wire and was very disappointed with the > results. If only thin insulated wire were available then the PA0SE type construction would be best.(page 13 of LF handbook) to reduce the loop self capacity. The PVC pipe construction would need a wire diameter of at least 1mm with an insulation thickness greater than .5mm. Even so, it would not be as good as Litz wire. As regards noise, I find a sensitive loop is very susceptible to magnetic QRM (as you might expect) and it has to be sited as far from the house as possible to avoid TV or computer monitor QRM. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20015 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2001 08:57:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Apr 2001 08:57:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 29550 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2001 08:56:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Apr 2001 08:56:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14l5QP-0005X3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2001 09:47:29 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14l5QM-0005Wy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 05 Apr 2001 09:47:27 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Thu, 05 Apr 2001 09:41:18 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 5 Apr 2001 09:41:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: LF Antennas Message-ID: <3ACC3DBD.29010.1B787E@localhost> In-reply-to: <14753488.986413695909.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G4CNN wrote: > Regarding the use of a high loading coil, Mike (XDV) comments: > > > It is also worth saying this is effective when the > part beyond the coil is quite > > small (as in your straight vertical diagrams). For an > antenna with substantial > > top loading, the gains and losses (caused by the much > large inductance > > needed) can cancel each other out. > > Perhaps I have misunderstood your point Mike, but this sounds wrong to me. > The less top loading, the greater the inductance required for resonance. > With little top loading above the high coil, a very large inductance is > required to have any effect, since the capacitive reactance will be > extremely high. A small coil will have little to no impact on this > reactance. > > It would appear to me that the reduction of high voltages in those parts of > the antenna that are near ground, trees, buildings, etc. is probably where > the most gain is made. Moving the current node up the antenna obviously > makes a difference, but the reduction in losses because of the lower > voltages is probably much more significant. The high voltages are still > there of course, but they are now confined to the top load, which hopefully > is well in the clear. Taking your own philosophy of experience being better that theory, the experience of myself and others is that a short antenna will benefit from an elevated coil much more than a long one. The argument about close-in absorption applied to both types of antenna. The point is that with, say, an inverted-L, the purpose of the horizontal section is to load the vertical section such that the =effective= height is maximised. A good size top section - perhaps 50m long - will already make the effective height very close to the physical height. Therefore the gain to be made is small. In this case the coil loss will probably be more than the gain available, unless a very low loss coil is used, and this can be too heavy or bulky to elevate. With a much shorter top section - mine is some 18m - the gains to be made from an elevated coil are much more, and greater than the coil loss. I agree that there is a point where there is a trade-off between coil loss and the inductance required, but I think is much less significant than the trade-off between effective height and coil loss. In any case, it works and that is the main thing. I have a 7mH elevated coil but it is quite lossy. My plan is to use my similar size 3mH Litz wire coil and load it with ferrite. This should be a better compromise between loss and height. 73 Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23767 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2001 21:49:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Apr 2001 21:49:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 1130 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2001 21:49:34 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Apr 2001 21:49:34 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14kv0i-0001gy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2001 22:40:16 +0100 Received: from dargolad.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.27]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14kv0g-0001gt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2001 22:40:15 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ea.esoterica.pt (ea.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.204]) by dargolad.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f34Ldni02753 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2001 22:39:49 +0100 (WEST) Received: from slave2 (por343.esoterica.pt [195.22.18.43]) by ea.esoterica.pt (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id WAA19496 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2001 22:39:48 +0100 (WET DST) Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010404213851.00847290@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 21:38:51 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: LF: Tonights Transmission MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Valerio, C:\Wolf>wolf -q wolfr4.wav -f 799.7 -t .1 -r 8018.5 WOLF version 0.52 t: 24 f: 0.004 a: 0.1 dp:103.5 ci:13 cj:316 UL*BDUJN8F8.DI. ? t: 48 f:-0.015 a:-1.1 dp: 98.7 ci: 0 cj:404 BHZE7CF/QVXY58K ? t: 96 f: 0.089 a:-0.6 dp: 96.7 ci: 2 cj:364 WMOO1HN1HRMZJA. ? t: 192 f: 0.010 pm: 169 jm:956 3PJOYUQQR0UJX6I ? t: 288 f: 0.010 pm: 238 jm:956 IK17D0DTHWRQTTD ? t: 384 f: 0.010 pm: 315 jm:956 UOJAJHZPV - t: 480 f: 0.010 pm: 430 jm:956 TSTIK5ZPV - t: 576 f: 0.010 pm: 519 jm:955 TSTIK5ZPV - t: 672 f: 0.010 pm: 533 jm:955 TSTIK5ZPV - t: 768 f: 0.010 pm: 555 jm:955 TSTIK5ZPV - t: 864 f: 0.010 pm: 558 jm:955 TSTIK5ZPV - t: 960 f: 0.010 pm: 574 jm:955 TSTIK5ZPV - which is the 15 min .wav finishing at 2045utc. Non of the others decoded straight away. I'll try decoding again tomorrow. 73, Brian 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17952 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2001 19:57:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 4 Apr 2001 19:57:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 27030 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2001 19:57:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Apr 2001 19:57:19 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ktIU-00010q-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2001 20:50:30 +0100 Received: from fortune-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.203] helo=fortune.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ktIS-00010L-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2001 20:50:29 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from chilly.excite.com ([199.172.153.77]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010404194933.SKVA10124.fortune.excite.com@chilly.excite.com> for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2001 12:49:33 -0700 Message-ID: <31244330.986413773941.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 12:49:32 -0700 (PDT) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: LF Antennas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 62.253.64.5 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Peter, hi All, I was particularly interested to read about Peter's new receive loop, which shares several features with the loop that I built, primarily its size and the use of thick Litz wire. Like Peter I am really impressed with the results. During initial trials last year I was at first taken aback by the high noise level, but now understand that this is a direct result of its superb sensitivity. During the transatlantic tests, I found my antenna really delivered the goods. Our experiences seem to confirm that this sort of size (i.e. of the order of a couple of metres in diameter) and particularly the use of low resistance Litz is optimum. The number of turns is 10 in Peter's case and 36 in mine and I am still unsure whether more or less is better. I am not convinced by the theoretical arguments that have been put forward, preferring an ounce of experience to a pound of theory (or gram, kilo respectively). Peter suggests that multistranded PVC covered wire would be a good substitute where Litz is not available. I cannot agree with this - I first wound my loop with this type of wire and was very disappointed with the results. Measurements of the resistance explained why. Perhaps really thick copper wire or lots of insulated turns in parallel rather than in series might work. Regarding the use of a high loading coil, Mike (XDV) comments: > It is also worth saying this is effective when the part beyond the coil is quite > small (as in your straight vertical diagrams). For an antenna with substantial > top loading, the gains and losses (caused by the much large inductance > needed) can cancel each other out. Perhaps I have misunderstood your point Mike, but this sounds wrong to me. The less top loading, the greater the inductance required for resonance. With little top loading above the high coil, a very large inductance is required to have any effect, since the capacitive reactance will be extremely high. A small coil will have little to no impact on this reactance. It would appear to me that the reduction of high voltages in those parts of the antenna that are near ground, trees, buildings, etc. is probably where the most gain is made. Moving the current node up the antenna obviously makes a difference, but the reduction in losses because of the lower voltages is probably much more significant. The high voltages are still there of course, but they are now confined to the top load, which hopefully is well in the clear. Best 73, John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7097 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2001 19:56:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Apr 2001 19:56:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 24583 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2001 19:56:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Apr 2001 19:56:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ktHF-00010A-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2001 20:49:13 +0100 Received: from fortune-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.203] helo=fortune.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ktHD-000104-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2001 20:49:12 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from chilly.excite.com ([199.172.153.77]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010404194815.SKNZ10124.fortune.excite.com@chilly.excite.com> for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2001 12:48:15 -0700 Message-ID: <14753488.986413695909.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 12:47:52 -0700 (PDT) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: LF Antennas MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 62.253.64.5 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Peter, hi All, I was particularly interested to read about Peter's new receive loop, which shares several features with the loop that I built, primarily its size and the use of thick Litz wire. Like Peter I am really impressed with the results. During initial trials last year I was at first taken aback by the high noise level, but now understand that this is a direct result of its superb sensitivity. During the transatlantic tests, I found my antenna really delivered the goods. Our experiences seem to confirm that this sort of size (i.e. of the order of a couple of metres in diameter) and particularly the use of low resistance Litz is optimum. The number of turns is 10 in Peter's case and 36 in mine and I am still unsure whether more or less is better. I am not convinced by the theoretical arguments that have been put forward, preferring an ounce of experience to a pound of theory (or gram, kilo respectively). Peter suggests that multistranded PVC covered wire would be a good substitute where Litz is not available. I cannot agree with this - I first wound my loop with this type of wire and was very disappointed with the results. Measurements of the resistance explained why. Perhaps really thick copper wire or lots of insulated turns in parallel rather than in series might work. Regarding the use of a high loading coil, Mike (XDV) comments: > It is also worth saying this is effective when the part beyond the coil is quite > small (as in your straight vertical diagrams). For an antenna with substantial > top loading, the gains and losses (caused by the much large inductance > needed) can cancel each other out. Perhaps I have misunderstood your point Mike, but this sounds wrong to me. The less top loading, the greater the inductance required for resonance. With little top loading above the high coil, a very large inductance is required to have any effect, since the capacitive reactance will be extremely high. A small coil will have little to no impact on this reactance. It would appear to me that the reduction of high voltages in those parts of the antenna that are near ground, trees, buildings, etc. is probably where the most gain is made. Moving the current node up the antenna obviously makes a difference, but the reduction in losses because of the lower voltages is probably much more significant. The high voltages are still there of course, but they are now confined to the top load, which hopefully is well in the clear. Best 73, John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 71 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2001 17:41:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Apr 2001 17:41:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 22723 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2001 17:41:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 4 Apr 2001 17:41:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14krAs-0000Cr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2001 18:34:30 +0100 Received: from mail6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14krAo-0000Cm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2001 18:34:26 +0100 Received: from modem-138.emerie.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.194.138] helo=robing) by mail6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14krAP-0002gY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2001 18:34:01 +0100 Message-ID: <000501c0bd25$19288760$8ac2883e@robing> From: "Robin T. Greenwood" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5516.200104041128@gemini> <3.0.5.32.20010404145814.0084ca00@pop3.esoterica.pt> Subject: LF: Major Increase in Solar WInd at 16:00 today Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 17:34:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Watch out for disturbed condx. and Aurora tonight.. The Ace satellite showed an increase from 500KM/s. to 800KM/s. in a minute or so... Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Brian Rogerson" To: Sent: Wednesday, April 04, 2001 3:58 PM Subject: Re: LF: IK5ZPV received again > Dear Valerio, > > As below:- > > > > C:\Wolf>wolf -q wolfr2.wav -f 799.75 -t .1 -r 8018.5 > WOLF version 0.52 > t: 24 f:-0.029 a: 0.2 dp:117.5 ci: 1 cj:374 9FY78GJ4UBSVRH ? > t: 48 f:-0.023 a:-0.2 dp:116.1 ci:15 cj:437 3O3J8Y3K 7PI.N0 ? > t: 96 f:-0.024 a: 0.1 dp:113.7 ci: 8 cj:208 D/*CM7UTRO*45 P - > t: 192 f: 0.010 pm:1890 jm: 70 JUNZJFQ.3F/IJUA ? > t: 288 f: 0.000 pm:2675 jm: 69 TSTIK5ZPV - > t: 384 f: 0.000 pm:3293 jm: 69 TSTIK5ZPV - > t: 480 f: 0.000 pm:3492 jm: 69 TSTIK5ZPV - > t: 576 f:-0.020 pm:4466 jm: 70 TSTIK5ZPV - > t: 672 f:-0.020 pm:4752 jm: 70 TSTIK5ZPV - > > > C:\Wolf>wolf -q wolfr3.wav -f 799.75 -t .1 -r 8018.5 > WOLF version 0.52 > t: 24 f: 0.101 a:-1.1 dp:119.4 ci: 8 cj:129 8TQ???CPI5XU 0B - > t: 48 f: 0.087 a: 0.0 dp:113.2 ci: 7 cj:129 4P G.D**FVQO04B ? > t: 96 f: 0.034 a: 1.2 dp:115.0 ci: 3 cj:313 *UKW8CW1ZGUXA.8 ? > t: 192 f:-0.049 pm:2484 jm:378 .JB3H4RZWX.E4KE ? > t: 288 f:-0.049 pm:2766 jm:378 TSTIK5ZPV - > t: 384 f:-0.049 pm:3027 jm:378 TSTIK5ZPV - > t: 480 f:-0.068 pm:5430 jm:378 TSTIK5ZPV - > t: 576 f:-0.068 pm:6321 jm:378 TSTIK5ZPV - > > But I would be so much happier if I knew what I was doing! > > 73, Brian > > > > >Dear Jim, > >I'm quite surprised from your report because my power last evening was > >80 W in antenna !!! > >This evening i will start later at 20:30 UTC untill about 22:00 UTC > >with 40W. > > > > > >P.S. the half hour transmission delay was due to solve a little > >last-minute problem in atenna feed. > > > > > >Tnx and '73, Valerio > > 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W > http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2300 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2001 15:13:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Apr 2001 15:13:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 25245 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2001 15:13:29 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Apr 2001 15:13:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14koli-0007qU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2001 16:00:22 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rhun.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.26]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14kolg-0007qP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2001 16:00:20 +0100 Received: from ea.esoterica.pt (ea.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.204]) by rhun.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f34ExsH16947 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2001 15:59:54 +0100 (WEST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from slave2 (por309.esoterica.pt [195.22.18.9]) by ea.esoterica.pt (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA04133 for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2001 15:59:53 +0100 (WET DST) Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010404145814.0084ca00@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 14:58:14 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: IK5ZPV received again In-reply-to: <3ACB0F98.5ED87347@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> References: <5516.200104041128@gemini> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Valerio, As below:- C:\Wolf>wolf -q wolfr2.wav -f 799.75 -t .1 -r 8018.5 WOLF version 0.52 t: 24 f:-0.029 a: 0.2 dp:117.5 ci: 1 cj:374 9FY78GJ4UBSVRH ? t: 48 f:-0.023 a:-0.2 dp:116.1 ci:15 cj:437 3O3J8Y3K 7PI.N0 ? t: 96 f:-0.024 a: 0.1 dp:113.7 ci: 8 cj:208 D/*CM7UTRO*45 P - t: 192 f: 0.010 pm:1890 jm: 70 JUNZJFQ.3F/IJUA ? t: 288 f: 0.000 pm:2675 jm: 69 TSTIK5ZPV - t: 384 f: 0.000 pm:3293 jm: 69 TSTIK5ZPV - t: 480 f: 0.000 pm:3492 jm: 69 TSTIK5ZPV - t: 576 f:-0.020 pm:4466 jm: 70 TSTIK5ZPV - t: 672 f:-0.020 pm:4752 jm: 70 TSTIK5ZPV - C:\Wolf>wolf -q wolfr3.wav -f 799.75 -t .1 -r 8018.5 WOLF version 0.52 t: 24 f: 0.101 a:-1.1 dp:119.4 ci: 8 cj:129 8TQ???CPI5XU 0B - t: 48 f: 0.087 a: 0.0 dp:113.2 ci: 7 cj:129 4P G.D**FVQO04B ? t: 96 f: 0.034 a: 1.2 dp:115.0 ci: 3 cj:313 *UKW8CW1ZGUXA.8 ? t: 192 f:-0.049 pm:2484 jm:378 .JB3H4RZWX.E4KE ? t: 288 f:-0.049 pm:2766 jm:378 TSTIK5ZPV - t: 384 f:-0.049 pm:3027 jm:378 TSTIK5ZPV - t: 480 f:-0.068 pm:5430 jm:378 TSTIK5ZPV - t: 576 f:-0.068 pm:6321 jm:378 TSTIK5ZPV - But I would be so much happier if I knew what I was doing! 73, Brian >Dear Jim, >I'm quite surprised from your report because my power last evening was >80 W in antenna !!! >This evening i will start later at 20:30 UTC untill about 22:00 UTC >with 40W. > > >P.S. the half hour transmission delay was due to solve a little >last-minute problem in atenna feed. > > >Tnx and '73, Valerio 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 102 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2001 12:24:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Apr 2001 12:24:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 21835 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2001 12:23:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Apr 2001 12:23:55 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14kmF4-0006uC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2001 13:18:30 +0100 Received: from htt06-acc.tin.it ([212.216.176.133] helo=fep41-svc.tin.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14kmF3-0006u7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2001 13:18:29 +0100 Received: from mailsrv.dii.unisi.it ([213.45.252.160]) by fep41-svc.tin.it (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with ESMTP id <20010404121428.OECQ9955.fep41-svc.tin.it@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> for ; Wed, 4 Apr 2001 14:14:28 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3ACB0F98.5ED87347@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> Date: Wed, 04 Apr 2001 14:12:08 +0200 From: "valerio gabbani" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: IK5ZPV received again References: <5516.200104041128@gemini> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz wrote: > Dear Valerio, LF Group, > > I copied "Wolf" mode signals from IK5ZPV again last night. No > signals were received before 1930 utc, but around that time I saw > a strong carrier on 137.5kHz on the spectrogram, followed by a > broad noise-like trace with the appearance of a BPSK signal, with > an SNR of a few dB in 0.12Hz bandwidth. Running Wolf on the > resulting recording immedeately resulted in the "TSTIK5ZPV" > mesage being decoded. Indicated frequency drifted from 0.2 - > 0.3Hz below nominal over 25 minutes > > In fact, if the signal had been any stronger, it would have been > neccessary to attenuate it to avoid overloading the Wolf software, > so Valerio could probably reduce power by 10-20dB and still be > copied easily here under similar conditions. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU Dear Jim, I'm quite surprised from your report because my power last evening was 80 W in antenna !!! This evening i will start later at 20:30 UTC untill about 22:00 UTC with 40W. P.S. the half hour transmission delay was due to solve a little last-minute problem in atenna feed. Tnx and '73, Valerio From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8197 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2001 11:39:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 4 Apr 2001 11:39:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 11459 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2001 11:39:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Apr 2001 11:39:04 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14klTT-0006db-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2001 12:29:19 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14klTR-0006dW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2001 12:29:18 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14klT1-0002he-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2001 12:28:51 +0100 Message-ID: <5516.200104041128@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 12:28:45 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: IK5ZPV received again X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Valerio, LF Group, I copied "Wolf" mode signals from IK5ZPV again last night. No signals were received before 1930 utc, but around that time I saw a strong carrier on 137.5kHz on the spectrogram, followed by a broad noise-like trace with the appearance of a BPSK signal, with an SNR of a few dB in 0.12Hz bandwidth. Running Wolf on the resulting recording immedeately resulted in the "TSTIK5ZPV" mesage being decoded. Indicated frequency drifted from 0.2 - 0.3Hz below nominal over 25 minutes In fact, if the signal had been any stronger, it would have been neccessary to attenuate it to avoid overloading the Wolf software, so Valerio could probably reduce power by 10-20dB and still be copied easily here under similar conditions. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1762 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2001 09:36:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 4 Apr 2001 09:36:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 10409 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2001 09:36:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 4 Apr 2001 09:36:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14kjYK-0005x0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2001 10:26:12 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14kjYG-0005wt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2001 10:26:08 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Wed, 04 Apr 2001 10:22:22 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 4 Apr 2001 10:22:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: LF Antennas Message-ID: <3ACAF5DD.194.36CF59@localhost> In-reply-to: <000901c0bc8a$d0d802a0$bfe086d4@ericadodd> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3LDO wrote: > In an attempt to improve the reception on 136kHz by cutting down the Loran > racket I have, over a period of time, been experimenting with LF receiving > loops. I now have one that works really well. It was used for the first time > in a 'reverse' crossband (136kHz/3.5MHz) QSO with VE1ZZ on 21st Feb. > Details of the construction and pictures are on the site shown below - click > 'An efficient LF receiving loop'. > > Recently, Mike, G3XDV, elevated the loading coil on his 136kHz Marconi. This > reduced the antenna current but apparently improved the efficiency. I am > researching material for a mobile handbook and was looking for a graphic way > of illustrating why elevating the loading coil improves efficiency. What I > have written is shown and illustrated on the site (I am sure that it must > have been all done before!). Click 'Discussion'. Any comments direct or via > the reflector welcome. Peter, Thanks for providing these useful pages. The following may also be helpful: Although you deal with the matter of increasing the length of the higher current part of the antenna, the other way of looking at it is that the effective height has been increased. This then ties in with the ERP calculation. Another potential gain is caused by the considerably reduced voltage present on the part below the coil. Losses due to proximity of nearby walls, trees etc are consequently reduced. It is also worth saying this is effective when the part beyond the coil is quite small (as in your straight vertical diagrams). For an antenna with substantial top loading, the gains and losses (caused by the much large inductance needed) can cancel each other out. Lastly, it would be helpful if you had a What's New page - or perhaps a box at the top of the main page - as it is quite difficult to locate new material with the present structure. 73 Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24576 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2001 06:02:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 4 Apr 2001 06:02:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 16641 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2001 06:02:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Apr 2001 06:02:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14kgA5-0004jP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2001 06:48:57 +0100 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14kgA2-0004jK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2001 06:48:54 +0100 Received: from [213.1.197.208] (helo=dave) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14kg9c-0003HL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 04 Apr 2001 06:48:28 +0100 Message-ID: <000001c0bcca$eb335740$d0c501d5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" References: <3AC99938.4866.17191C@localhost> Subject: LF: Re: LF talk - Bracknell ARC Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 20:12:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Mike Dennison wrote: >Do you want any activity on the band that evening? I shall not be having an on air station, as past experience in setting up a station and antennas at our club premises has been most disappointing. I am demonstrating with the help of recordings I have made here. Thanks though for the offer. Jon W1JHJ wrote: Received: (qmail 28378 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 22:16:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 22:16:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 18846 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 22:16:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 22:16:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14kYzQ-0002Cd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2001 23:09:28 +0100 Received: from amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.45]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14kYzP-0002CY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2001 23:09:27 +0100 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-18-191.easynet.co.uk [212.134.224.191]) by amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 13B9F17417 for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 23:08:58 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <000901c0bc8a$d0d802a0$bfe086d4@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: LF Antennas Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 23:09:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In an attempt to improve the reception on 136kHz by cutting down the Loran racket I have, over a period of time, been experimenting with LF receiving loops. I now have one that works really well. It was used for the first time in a 'reverse' crossband (136kHz/3.5MHz) QSO with VE1ZZ on 21st Feb. Details of the construction and pictures are on the site shown below - click 'An efficient LF receiving loop'. Recently, Mike, G3XDV, elevated the loading coil on his 136kHz Marconi. This reduced the antenna current but apparently improved the efficiency. I am researching material for a mobile handbook and was looking for a graphic way of illustrating why elevating the loading coil improves efficiency. What I have written is shown and illustrated on the site (I am sure that it must have been all done before!). Click 'Discussion'. Any comments direct or via the reflector welcome. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22966 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 15:06:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 15:06:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 24194 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 15:06:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 15:06:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14kSCp-0008KY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2001 15:54:51 +0100 Received: from mail2.dada.it ([195.110.96.69] helo=mail.dada.it) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14kSCo-0008KT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2001 15:54:50 +0100 Received: (qmail 8903 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 14:53:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cestag) (195.110.103.131) by mail.dada.it with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 14:53:46 -0000 Message-ID: <000901c0bc4d$cac844c0$83676ec3@cestag> From: "cesare tagliabue" To: "LF group" Subject: LF: new loop antenna Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 16:52:33 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
        Hi all
        At last, after a noticeable delay, I've mounted on the roof my new loop, built in October 2000. This loop is not a conventional one, being made with only one turn without remote tuning device. I have updated my LW page with a link to another page describing this antenna; I think may be of some interest. By the way, now my provider has used a new operating system that is 'case sensitive' and I was compelled to rename some files in my web-page, using only low-case letters and underscore when necessary; maybe some old links pointing at a particular file are not working and must be revised.
    best 73  Cesare
 
Cesare Tagliabue   I 5 TGC
WW-Loc  JN53PS
e-mail: cestag@dada.it
url: http://www.dadacasa.com/i5tgc
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 89 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 12:20:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 12:20:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 24373 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 12:20:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 12:20:12 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14kPhT-0007Pd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2001 13:14:19 +0100 Received: from [212.216.176.239] (helo=fep43-svc.tin.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14kPhP-0007PY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2001 13:14:15 +0100 Received: from mailsrv.dii.unisi.it ([212.171.201.197]) by fep43-svc.tin.it (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with ESMTP id <20010403121208.XNZT744.fep43-svc.tin.it@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> for ; Tue, 3 Apr 2001 14:12:08 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AC9BD1E.7D1AB2D3@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 14:07:59 +0200 From: "valerio gabbani" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: IK5ZPV received in "Wolf" mode References: <10772.200104030941@gemini> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz wrote: > Dear Valerio, LF Group, > > I recorded a couple of 25 minute .wav files between 2000 and > 2100 last night, and was able to decode these without difficulty - > the message was "TSTIK5ZPV", indicated frequency drifted from > 0.3Hz to 0.5Hz low during the 1 hour period. > > I was suffering very high 50Hz noise levels last night, along with > heavy QRN, so I expect reception would have been possible with > much less TX power under better conditions. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU Dear Jim, many thanks for report, i should be on this evening also on the same frequency starting from 19:00 UTC untill 20 UTC. Power used last evening was 150 W in antenna not less than 150mW ERP. This evening i plan to use less power, not more than 100 W. '73, Valerio (IK5ZPV) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20240 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 11:26:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 11:26:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 23092 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 11:26:40 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 11:26:40 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14kOrW-00075F-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2001 12:20:38 +0100 Received: from mail8.wlv.netzero.net ([209.247.163.58]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14kOrS-00075A-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2001 12:20:34 +0100 Received: (qmail 28935 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 11:18:12 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from dialup-63.214.90.193.boston1.level3.net (HELO lazzo) (63.214.90.193) by mail8.wlv.netzero.net with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 11:18:12 -0000 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20010403071525.00d21f80@pop.netzero.net> X-Sender: w1jhj@pop.netzero.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 03 Apr 2001 07:15:25 -0400 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Jonathan Jesse" Subject: Re: LF: LF talk - Bracknell ARC In-reply-to: <002801c0bc0d$78210300$acc501d5@dave> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Is anyone by chance planning on video taping this talk? I for one would like to hear and see it. Maybe some other US Lowfers would like to as well. It could also be used to spark some interest in those who are unfamiliar with LOWFER operations. All we would need is someone to convert the PAL format to NTSC which should be fairly easy. Thanks and 73, Jon W1JHJ >I shall be repeating my talk on 136kHz - '136kHz from the Suburban Plot' at >Bracknell ARC, Coopers Hill Centre, Crowthorne Road North, Bracknell, on >Wednesday 11th. April at 8pm. All are welcome, email me for more >information. This talk instilled some interest in the band when I gave it at >the Maidenhead club last year. > >You may recall that I changed my email and web site addresses a while ago. >A quick check shows that many of you still have links to my old compuserve >site on your web pages, which no longer work. Please could you update these >to the address below. > >Cheers Dave G3YMC Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24776 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 09:47:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 09:47:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 14022 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 09:47:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 09:47:40 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14kNJh-0006Y2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2001 10:41:37 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14kNJg-0006Xx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2001 10:41:36 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14kNJH-0002BN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2001 10:41:11 +0100 Message-ID: <10772.200104030941@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 10:41:06 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: IK5ZPV received in "Wolf" mode X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Valerio, LF Group, I recorded a couple of 25 minute .wav files between 2000 and 2100 last night, and was able to decode these without difficulty - the message was "TSTIK5ZPV", indicated frequency drifted from 0.3Hz to 0.5Hz low during the 1 hour period. I was suffering very high 50Hz noise levels last night, along with heavy QRN, so I expect reception would have been possible with much less TX power under better conditions. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22521 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 09:45:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 09:45:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 22002 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 09:45:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 09:45:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14kNIS-0006Xt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2001 10:40:20 +0100 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14kNIR-0006Xn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2001 10:40:20 +0100 Received: from [213.1.137.91] (helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14kNI3-0000sJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2001 10:39:55 +0100 Message-ID: <000201c0bc21$d16b80c0$5b8901d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Sorry Wolf and Reiner .... Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 00:16:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, whoops....there has been so much "WOLF" recently it must have gone to my head.....keep posting to the cluster it always interesting to see what you are hearing, and who is active. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13391 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 08:53:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 08:53:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 15851 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 08:53:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 08:53:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14kMSS-0006By-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2001 09:46:36 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14kMSO-0006Bo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2001 09:46:33 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Tue, 03 Apr 2001 09:34:50 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 09:34:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: LF talk - Bracknell ARC Message-ID: <3AC99938.4866.17191C@localhost> In-reply-to: <002801c0bc0d$78210300$acc501d5@dave> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3YMC wrote: > I shall be repeating my talk on 136kHz - '136kHz from the Suburban Plot' at > Bracknell ARC, Coopers Hill Centre, Crowthorne Road North, Bracknell, on > Wednesday 11th. April at 8pm. All are welcome, email me for more > information. This talk instilled some interest in the band when I gave it at > the Maidenhead club last year. Dave, Do you want any activity on the band that evening? Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22458 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 08:53:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 08:53:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 7972 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 08:53:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 08:53:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14kMSS-0006Bx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2001 09:46:36 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14kMSO-0006Bn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2001 09:46:32 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Tue, 03 Apr 2001 09:31:48 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 09:31:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: WOLF Message-ID: <3AC99882.18282.1451F8@localhost> In-reply-to: <3AC8AF43.423BA7D7@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > probably i will start to T X in WOLF mode on 137.500 kHz starting from > 20:00 UTC untill 21:00 UTC. > '73 Valerio (IK5ZPV) Sorry, but I did not see this e-mail until Tuesday 3 April. Will you be on tonight? I will listen for you. Last night the QRN was very bad. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20652 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 07:20:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 07:20:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 13680 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2001 07:20:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 3 Apr 2001 07:20:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14kKzm-0005ih-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2001 08:12:54 +0100 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14kKzi-0005ic-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2001 08:12:51 +0100 Received: from [213.1.197.172] (helo=dave) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14kKzK-000687-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 03 Apr 2001 08:12:26 +0100 Message-ID: <002801c0bc0d$78210300$acc501d5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: LF talk - Bracknell ARC Date: Tue, 3 Apr 2001 08:11:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC I shall be repeating my talk on 136kHz - '136kHz from the Suburban Plot' at Bracknell ARC, Coopers Hill Centre, Crowthorne Road North, Bracknell, on Wednesday 11th. April at 8pm. All are welcome, email me for more information. This talk instilled some interest in the band when I gave it at the Maidenhead club last year. You may recall that I changed my email and web site addresses a while ago. A quick check shows that many of you still have links to my old compuserve site on your web pages, which no longer work. Please could you update these to the address below. Cheers Dave G3YMC dsergeant@btinternet.com dsergeant@iee.org http://www.btinternet.com/~dsergeant From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2559 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2001 22:03:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Apr 2001 22:03:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 703 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2001 22:03:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Apr 2001 22:03:33 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14kCJf-0002dF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2001 22:56:51 +0100 Received: from imo-r14.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.68]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14kCJe-0002dA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2001 22:56:50 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-r14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.14.) id l.84.13ac17ed (4259) for ; Mon, 2 Apr 2001 17:55:49 -0400 (EDT) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <84.13ac17ed.27fa4f65@aol.com> Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 17:55:49 EDT Subject: LF: Re: LF DX Cluster spots.. To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Disposition: Inline X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 217 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi Alan and group,

>I suspect Wolf had a bit of finger trouble with Tom's call on 26th.

The operator of DL3FDO is Reiner, not Wolf. He lives in the Frankfurt area in
central Germany. I guess Alan mixed DL3FDO's call with mine or with DL1SAN
who's name is also Wolf (and there are many other Wolfs around here, hi).
I personally was not active on LF this weekend, but hope to be QRV again soon
(with oven-controlled master oscillator).

73's from Wolf, DL4YHF.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12993 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2001 21:01:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 2 Apr 2001 21:01:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 19833 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2001 21:01:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Apr 2001 21:01:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14kB9G-0002CF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2001 21:42:02 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout01.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.80]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14kB9F-0002CA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2001 21:42:01 +0100 Received: from fwd02.aul.t-online.de by mailout01.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14kB8r-0001qA-02; Mon, 02 Apr 2001 22:41:37 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.227.109.73]) by fwd02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14kB8m-1xVxxoC; Mon, 2 Apr 2001 22:41:32 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3AC8AF43.423BA7D7@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> Subject: Re: LF: WOLF X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 22:41:32 +0200 Message-ID: <14kB8m-1xVxxoC@fwd02.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Valerio Gabbani schrieb: > Hello alla, > probably i will start to T X in WOLF mode on 137.500 kHz starting from > 20:00 UTC untill 21:00 UTC. > > Reports are appreciated. > > > '73 Valerio (IK5ZPV) > > Hi Valerio, did read ur mail too late (2130utc).I`m keen interested in receiving WOLF- emissions for test purposes ( new soundcard es new rx ). will u start agn soon ? regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19828 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2001 17:04:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Apr 2001 17:04:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 20631 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2001 17:03:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 2 Apr 2001 17:03:53 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14k7bE-0000rS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2001 17:54:40 +0100 Received: from firewall.dii.unisi.it ([193.205.7.2] ident=postfix) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14k7bD-0000rN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2001 17:54:39 +0100 Received: from alpha.dii.unisi.it (alpha.dii.unisi.it [10.1.0.1]) by firewall.dii.unisi.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 014533C015 for ; Mon, 2 Apr 2001 18:54:17 +0200 (CEST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from mailsrv.dii.unisi.it (pcfasec.dii.unisi.it [10.6.9.1]) by alpha.dii.unisi.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 6A48F1829C for ; Mon, 2 Apr 2001 20:07:45 +0200 (CEST) Message-ID: <3AC8AF43.423BA7D7@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 18:56:35 +0200 From: "Valerio Gabbani" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: WOLF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello alla, probably i will start to T X in WOLF mode on 137.500 kHz starting from 20:00 UTC untill 21:00 UTC. Reports are appreciated. '73 Valerio (IK5ZPV) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7808 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2001 16:57:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Apr 2001 16:57:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 11394 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2001 16:57:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Apr 2001 16:57:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14k7Wy-0000rI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2001 17:50:16 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14k7Ws-0000p8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2001 17:50:10 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14k7WU-00045k-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2001 17:49:46 +0100 Message-ID: <24716.200104021649@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 17:54:48 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Re: PSK Tx solution? X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Mike, LF group,

G3XDV wrote:
>My understanding is that for voice transmissions NBFM and >phase mod are differently achieved but result in roughly the same >mathematics so can be demodulated as if they were identical.
>In the same way, can we achieve the same effect as PSK by >doing something with the frequency instead? If so, linearity is not >an issue.

That's exactly what my prototype circuit is aiming to do. So far, it demonstrates that BPSK-like signals with constant amplitude (and therefore not requiring a linear amp) can be generated with acceptable sidebands using a phase modulator. These signals could be viewed mathematically as either phase- or frequency modulation. However, to obtain the benefits of coherent signal detection, it is neccesary to preserve a definite fixed relationship between the phase of the modulated signal, and a reference phase (the carrier). Practical p hase modulators do this, but practical analogue frequency modulators (basically voltage controlled oscillators) don't.

So far so good, but now the question is are these phase-modulated signals compatible with BPSK as far as reception is concerned? That's the next stage in the experiment....

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29626 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2001 15:54:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 2 Apr 2001 15:54:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 26425 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2001 15:54:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Apr 2001 15:54:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14k6Uk-0000Q4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2001 16:43:54 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14k6Ui-0000Pz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2001 16:43:53 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Mon, 02 Apr 2001 16:34:21 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 16:34:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: PSK Tx solution? Message-ID: <3AC8AA0B.30548.AC576A@localhost> In-reply-to: <14322.200104021330@gemini> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: M0BMU wrote: > There seems to be some potential for BPSK modulation methods > on LF, but the big difficulty is generating a TX signal with > acceptable sidebands I may be way off beam here but can we do anything with FSK? My understanding is that for voice transmissions NBFM and phase mod are differently achieved but result in roughly the same mathematics so can be demodulated as if they were identical. In the same way, can we achieve the same effect as PSK by doing something with the frequency instead? If so, linearity is not an issue. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20059 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2001 13:59:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Apr 2001 13:59:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 6639 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2001 13:58:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Apr 2001 13:58:58 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14k4kF-0008Fu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2001 14:51:47 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14k4kE-0008Fp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2001 14:51:46 +0100 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id OAA30419; Mon, 2 Apr 2001 14:54:26 +0100 (BST) Received: (qmail 26567 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2001 14:42:08 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 2 Apr 2001 14:42:08 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id OAA00917; Mon, 2 Apr 2001 14:27:52 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma000700; Mon, 2 Apr 01 14:27:23 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id ; Mon, 2 Apr 2001 14:56:59 +0100 Received: by frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Mon, 2 Apr 2001 14:50:49 +0100 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C0424@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, "API \(E-mail\)" , "API-HOME \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: Proposed LF Forum at the Crawley Club Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 14:50:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: There may be a possibility of an LF Roundtable / Forum at the Flight Refuelling Radio Club (G4RFR) HQ at Merley near Wimborne, Dorset. The original date of 13 May coincides with a 70MHz CW contest so something slightly later would be preferred. I am no longer a member of that club, but have asked John G0API to chase up the possibility. In the past we have held several sucessful Microwave Roundtables at that venue, so the logistics are in place. The clubroom can cater for about 40 people Andy G4JNT -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21187 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2001 13:38:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 2 Apr 2001 13:38:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 9704 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2001 13:38:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Apr 2001 13:38:19 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14k4Pj-00084p-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2001 14:30:35 +0100 Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14k4Pf-00084k-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2001 14:30:31 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14k4PG-0007Af-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2001 14:30:06 +0100 Message-ID: <14322.200104021330@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 2 Apr 2001 14:35:08 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Variable PSK - experimental cct + some results X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, There seems to be some potential for BPSK modulation methods on LF, but the big difficulty is generating a TX signal with acceptable sidebands - many people find the high-power amplitude modulator, or linear transverter/PA required rather daunting. It has been suggested that similar reduction in sidebands could be acheived by having "soft" phase transitions with constant signal amplitude, rather than the abrupt phase keying and envelope shaping of normal BPSK. This would eliminate the high power modulator, while allowing use of high efficiency, non-linear amplifiers, such as class D types. In order to test this idea, I have breadboarded a variable phase modulator, together with waveform-shaping circuits. The circuit implements 2 approaches - ON7YD's linear phase transition idea, and G4JNT's raised-cosine phase transitions. The phase modulator is essentially a voltage controlled pulse width modulator running at 136kHz. The leading edge of the PWM output pulse is delayed relative to the 136kHz clock signal by an amount proportional to the input voltage. This leading edge is then used to trigger a monostable, which generates a constant duty cycle, approximately square wave, output whose phase lag relative to the input signal is linearly dependant on the input voltage. The phase modulation range is up to about 270 degrees; by clamping the input signal level, a 180 degree shift is obtained. Rik's linear phase transitions are generated by feeding the incoming data waveform into a "bounded integrator" circuit; the integrator charging current and capacitor control the duration of the phase transition, the bounds on the integrator output voltage control the phase excursion. The resulting trapezoidal waveform is fed to the phase modulator. I found experimentally that a fair aproximation to Andy's raised-cosine waveform could be produced by feeding the trapezoidal signal through a 3rd order Bessel low pass filter, and playing around with the time constants. I looked at the resulting spectra by feeding the low level phase modulator output to a RX with 1 kHz bandwidth, and examining the audio output using DL4YHF's Spectrum Lab analyser software. I tried linear transitions ranging in duration from 5ms, up to 100ms, ie. the entire bit period. Transitions that were a small fraction of the bit period did not offer significant improvement over the "raw" BPSK, with sidebands extending to several hundred Hz. However, with transitions of 50ms or 100ms, the bandwidth of the signal was considerably reduced, with no significant sidebands beyond about +/- 100Hz, which is about the same as a 12wpm CW signal. The spectra had "spikes" at 10Hz intervals, presumably due to the abrupt changes of gradient in the phase modulation. As you might expect, adding the low-pass filter to produce the more rounded raised-cosine transitions largely got rid of the 10Hz spikes, and gave very clean spectra. I tried 50ms and 100ms transitions; bandwidths were about 80Hz and 40Hz respectively. The 100ms transitions gave a spectrum of very similar bandwidth to my Decca TX BPSK signal; the main difference was that it was more "peaked", presumably because there is some carrier present. I have a .jpg file of the various spectra I obtained, plus 12wpm CW and "conventional" BPSK for comparison; it is 107kB so a bit big for the reflector, but available direct on request. The circuit isn't really much more than a lash-up at the moment, but I will get some details together if anyone is interested. So having gradual phase transitions of 0.5 -1 times the bit period certainly seems to produce acceptable transmit signals - the next experiment is to see how compatible these "Variable PSK" signals are with the existing BPSK demodulators that are available, such as "Wolf" and "Coherent". Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2112 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2001 12:38:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Apr 2001 12:38:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 25304 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2001 12:38:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Apr 2001 12:38:23 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14k3Pw-0007iP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2001 13:26:44 +0100 Received: from jaws.cisco.com ([198.135.0.150] helo=cisco.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14k3Pv-0007iK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 02 Apr 2001 13:26:43 +0100 Received: from virgin.net (uxb-dhcp-198-135-1-193.cisco.com [198.135.1.193]) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id NAA06325 for ; Mon, 2 Apr 2001 13:25:44 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AC86F84.2730C9FE@virgin.net> Date: Mon, 02 Apr 2001 13:24:37 +0100 From: "Stewart Bryant" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Proposed LF Forum at the Crawley Club References: <000d01c0b894$135b6040$a047073e@j1r9b7> <003501c0b90a$6200b940$2873073e@dave> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: It's very late, but I wonder if we could meet at the RSGB VHF convention this weekend? There are meeting rooms available, and as far as I can see they are not all used all of the time. Stewart G3YSX Dave Sergeant wrote: > >From Dave G3YMC > > G3GRO wrote: > >Regretfully therefore the Club committee have to withdraw the offer to host > >the event for this year. > > That is sad, yet another victim of the crisis. There is unlikely to be HF > or VHF field days this year. Mr Blair, the countryside is not open! > > Let us hope possibly another venue can be found. > > 73s Dave G3YMC > dsergeant@btinternet.com > dsergeant@iee.org > http://www.btinternet.com/~dsergeant From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6014 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2001 22:04:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Apr 2001 22:04:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 2735 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2001 22:04:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Apr 2001 22:04:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14jpql-0002iX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Apr 2001 22:57:31 +0100 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14jpqk-0002iS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Apr 2001 22:57:31 +0100 Received: from [213.122.173.172] (helo=default) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14jpqB-00043o-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Apr 2001 22:56:55 +0100 Message-ID: <000401c0baf6$878d9d20$acad7ad5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots for 31st Mar/1st Apr at GB7DXM Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 22:33:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, not a lot this weekend, I thought the band sounded quite quiet this weekend again....maybe I didn't get up early enough!! I suspect Wolf had a bit of finger trouble with Tom's call on 26th. 137.7 OM2TW 1-Apr-2001 0901Z 136.5 F6CNI 31-Mar-2001 2027Z in QSO with G8RW 136.6 OM5CW 31-Mar-2001 1942Z cq 136.5 OK1DTN 31-Mar-2001 1639Z rst 529 on my beveravge ! cq 136.4 OK1DTN 31-Mar-2001 1631Z 599 +5db in jn97bu 136.3 PA3CPM 30-Mar-2001 1845Z calling cq UK 136.5 G3LOB 26-Mar-2001 1956Z cq cq 136.7 OK1FIG 25-Mar-2001 1130Z cq cq ... 136.8 ON6NL 24-Mar-2001 1410Z in QSO with dl/om2tw . 519 136.8 DL/OM2TW 24-Mar-2001 1408Z 519in jo32qg,he in jo52bd G3NYK de GB7MRS 1-Apr-2001 2127Z > Cheers de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18674 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2001 09:20:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Apr 2001 09:20:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 24997 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2001 09:20:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Apr 2001 09:20:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14jdp1-0006wH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Apr 2001 10:06:55 +0100 Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14jdp0-0006wC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 01 Apr 2001 10:06:54 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.99.131]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010401090626.XITW283.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Sun, 1 Apr 2001 10:06:26 +0100 Message-ID: <000a01c0ba8b$057136a0$836368d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3AC68003.FC71E70B@ns.sympatico.ca> Subject: LF: Re: lf xatlantic Date: Sun, 1 Apr 2001 10:06:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Hi has anyone been transmitting? I have seen nil here, but condx have > been poor > 73 de John VE1ZJ Nothing from here. I have been checking conditions but CFH has been S7 max in recent days. But if you would like a transmission, I can provide one. 73 Mike, G3XDV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26140 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2001 23:02:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Mar 2001 23:02:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 19147 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2001 23:01:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 31 Mar 2001 23:01:50 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14jUIZ-0003Up-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Mar 2001 23:56:47 +0100 Received: from imo-r20.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.162]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14jUIY-0003Uh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Mar 2001 23:56:46 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-r20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.14.) id l.69.1357f3af (4397) for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2001 17:55:46 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <69.1357f3af.27f7ba72@aol.com> Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 17:55:46 EST Subject: LF: Re: Bad LF Condx.. but big aurora on 2 m To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Disposition: Inline X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 217 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello group,
LF propagation may have been poor this saturday, but there was a phantastic
radio aurora on 2mtrs here, even Italian stations were easy to work via
aurora from DF0WD (on 2m... would have preferred working them on 2200m, but
anyway...;-). The aurora was even visible in some parts of DL which is very
unusual.
Just in case you got a clear sky tonight, look up to the north !

73's, Wolf (DL4YHF).