From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21582 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2001 20:15:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Mar 2001 20:15:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 13289 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2001 20:15:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 31 Mar 2001 20:15:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14jRfU-0002YZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Mar 2001 21:08:16 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14jRfT-0002YU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Mar 2001 21:08:15 +0100 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.93.43]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2001 16:07:13 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AC68003.FC71E70B@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 20:10:27 -0500 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: lf xatlantic Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi has anyone been transmitting? I have seen nil here, but condx have been poor 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8015 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2001 07:49:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 31 Mar 2001 07:49:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 3665 invoked from network); 31 Mar 2001 07:49:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 31 Mar 2001 07:49:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14jG3R-00075b-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Mar 2001 08:44:13 +0100 Received: from lepidachrosite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14jG3O-00075W-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Mar 2001 08:44:10 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust193.tnt20.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.116.134.193]) by lepidachrosite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 2BC9DCAF96 for ; Sat, 31 Mar 2001 07:43:11 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <003101c0b9b6$6af37360$c18674d5@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <14gpKS-1kYC0WC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> <14h8HU-0thmHAC@fwd06.sul.t-online.com> <14i0Fh-1gkX5sC@fwd06.sul.t-online.com> <004901c0b897$a06dd960$a047073e@j1r9b7> <14j7sz-25SSYaC@fwd02.sul.t-online.com> Subject: LF: Re: PVC tks Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 09:40:58 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Uwe and All, PVC is certainly good enough at LF. When you want to be sure put a piece of pipe in the microwave oven (together with a glass of water as dummy load). When it survives that test you know there will be no problems at lower frequencies. 73, Dick, PA0SE ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- Van: jannsen <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> Aan: Verzonden: zaterdag 31 maart 2001 1:00 Onderwerp: LF: PVC tks > Hi Derek, Dick and Robin > tks fer the infos abt the PVC dielectric constant. > I found in my garden some PVC-tubes of usefull diameter for new antenna matching > coils wondering if that material is right for lf. the d-c cld be ok. I will > prove the loss by comparing the PVC-coil with an air-coil of same structure. > Regards > Uwe/dj8wx > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10963 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2001 23:09:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 30 Mar 2001 23:09:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 950 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2001 23:09:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 30 Mar 2001 23:09:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14j7tt-0004Fc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Mar 2001 00:01:49 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout05.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14j7ts-0004FU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 31 Mar 2001 00:01:48 +0100 Received: from fwd02.sul.t-online.com by mailout05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14j7tE-00025m-02; Sat, 31 Mar 2001 01:01:08 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.157.30.183]) by fwd02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14j7sz-25SSYaC; Sat, 31 Mar 2001 01:00:53 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <14gpKS-1kYC0WC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> <14h8HU-0thmHAC@fwd06.sul.t-online.com> <14i0Fh-1gkX5sC@fwd06.sul.t-online.com> <004901c0b897$a06dd960$a047073e@j1r9b7> Subject: LF: PVC tks X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sat, 31 Mar 2001 01:00:53 +0200 Message-ID: <14j7sz-25SSYaC@fwd02.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Derek, Dick and Robin tks fer the infos abt the PVC dielectric constant. I found in my garden some PVC-tubes of usefull diameter for new antenna matching coils wondering if that material is right for lf. the d-c cld be ok. I will prove the loss by comparing the PVC-coil with an air-coil of same structure. Regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22092 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2001 22:56:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2001 22:56:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 14898 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2001 22:56:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 30 Mar 2001 22:56:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14j7im-00045B-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 23:50:20 +0100 Received: from ruthenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.138] helo=ruthenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14j7il-000456-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 23:50:19 +0100 Received: from [62.7.43.70] (helo=default) by ruthenium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14j7iM-0002ja-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 23:49:55 +0100 Message-ID: <000301c0b96b$923ec3c0$462b073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Solar Events Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 23:47:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, for those of you that are interested in propagation, sunspots, solar X-ray flares and aurora (not to mention Coronal holes and CMEs ) there is an interesting article in the April 2001 issue of the Scientific American Journal. It does not have anything to say about disruption to radio propagation but it does have a lot of 'new' information about CMEs and the production of the shock-front. (It may be available on their web site, I haven't looked) It describes the injection and ejection of particles from the 'plasma-sphere' by the collision with the magnetic field of the CME. ( I think the 'plasma-sphere' they refer to is what is often called the Van Allen belts.) I believe this 'dynamo' effect could also inject energetic particles into the ionosphere, at the poles. These would be much 'hotter' than photo-dissociated ions, and so would take quite a long time to recombine (decay)....maybe as much as 10 days. The most interesting thing for me is that it 'decouples' the CME events from the X-ray flares. The older references were not able to do this not having access to data from the Geos and SOHO satellites. CMEs it seems can be caused by the same mechanism that releases an X-ray flare, but they can occur by other means without the release of X-rays. This accounts for some 'bad nights' on the CFH plots that did not seem to correlate with previous flares. SXV seems to be showing some signs of the effects of the recent CMEs as it has become very weak in daytime today. If the D-layer is heavily ionised by now it will be interesting to see if there is enhanced range from some of the weaker eastern European stations this weekend, due to daytime 'skywave'. Cheers de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24037 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2001 20:46:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2001 20:46:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 9367 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2001 20:46:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 30 Mar 2001 20:46:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14j5gk-0003On-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 21:40:06 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.sitestar.net ([205.160.234.10] helo=mail.neocom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14j5gi-0003Oi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 21:40:05 +0100 Received: from sitestar.net (reston-gnap-ip-216012-167.dynamic.ziplink.net [216.8.12.167]) by mail.neocom.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f2UKdap24926 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 15:39:36 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AC4EFE3.72439BF0@sitestar.net> Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 15:43:15 -0500 From: "Rye Gewalt" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: BPSK PLL, wheels References: <8d.4763591.27f50ca5@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I couldn't agree with you more regarding re-inventing things. I think that there are a lot of roads that were investigated and abandon as dead ends years ago --- and with today's technology they can be very fruitful and interesting. In some respects this LF activity is like that. But I still like my wheel idea. Sometimes my sense of humor gets me into trouble -- I apologize but hope a few got a chuckle or two out of it.... Rye MarkusVester@aol.com wrote: > Hi Rik, Jim, Rye and all, > > > The error between input and > > output phases could be corrected either by increasing the VCO > > frequency until the output phase "catches up" with the input, or > > decreasing it until it "slows down" to match the input. The output > > phase could shift in either direction, although the end result would > > always be to match the input phase. > > Like in real life, it's sometimes a sad thing to have to decide one way or > another. If that PLL could take both routes simultaneously, the result would > be perfect soft BPSK again :-) . In the 30's, there was a scheme called > "Chireix modulation" which added the power outputs of two phase-modulated > class-C transmitters to achieve AM in an efficient way. > > > I am working on this round thing that can be used to reduce friction rather > > than simply dragging things across the ground..... > > Me too, apparently... I hardly dare say it in public, but in my opinion, > re-inventing basic stuff is not so stupid at all. Don't we learn a lot more > by own thinking and fiddling than by just believing in the solutions the > experts have come up with for us? Trying to catch a glimpse of tiny dots > encircling Jupiter in a homemade cardbord-roll telescope may be more exciting > and instructive than a great show of colourful deep-sky HST images on the > web. Which of course is not bad, either... > > 73 de Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19054 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2001 17:19:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 30 Mar 2001 17:19:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 16653 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2001 17:19:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 30 Mar 2001 17:19:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14j2IH-00023l-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 18:02:37 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14j2IG-00023g-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 18:02:36 +0100 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14j2Hs-00065Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 18:02:12 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <25649.200103301702@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 18:07:11 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Argo -simplicity, sig strength etc. X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF group, I don't think it is possible for any one piece of software to be all things to all people - for the person who is trying to copy a QRSS signal, Argo is very well "tuned", but the trade-off for this specialisation and being simple to use is that it is less versatile. If you want to examine the spectrum of a different type of signal, it is better to use a program like Spectrum Lab or Spectran, where you have greater control over the parameters of the FFT and display. Having said that, I still think a signal level/SNR measurement function would be a valuable addition to Argo, even if you are only using it for QRSS. It is important to be able to get a meaningful measurement of signal strength - eg. 3dB down on yesterday, 10dB above the noise level, rather than just calling it T,M or O. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20513 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2001 15:13:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2001 15:13:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 21133 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2001 15:13:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 30 Mar 2001 15:13:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14j0U0-0001KI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 16:06:36 +0100 Received: from neptune.imagenisp.com ([204.244.138.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14j0Tz-0001K8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 16:06:35 +0100 Received: from jsm (DEFAULT [204.244.18.81]) by neptune.imagenisp.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id H6MK7L1T; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 07:06:10 -0800 Message-ID: <000c01c0b92a$47fb7240$5112f4cc@jsm> From: "Steve McDonald" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C0413@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> <002301c0b900$ec54e8a0$a3e086d4@ericadodd> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Dumbing down Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 07:01:20 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > The implied criticism of Alberto's work is inappropriate. > Keep up the good work Alberto. > > Regards, > Peter, G3LDO > Well said!! From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11457 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2001 14:00:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2001 14:00:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 10390 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2001 14:00:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 30 Mar 2001 14:00:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14izLc-0000uy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 14:53:52 +0100 Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14izLY-0000us-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 14:53:49 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.97.130]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010330135325.NRUN283.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 14:53:25 +0100 Message-ID: <001501c0b920$c5e539c0$096068d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <8d.4763591.27f50ca5@aol.com> Subject: Re: LF: BPSK PLL, wheels Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 14:31:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > > I am working on this round thing that can be used to reduce friction rather > > than simply dragging things across the ground..... > > Me too, apparently... I hardly dare say it in public, but in my opinion, > re-inventing basic stuff is not so stupid at all. Don't we learn a lot more > by own thinking and fiddling than by just believing in the solutions the > experts have come up with for us? .........> > 73 de Markus, DF6NM Isn't that exactly what makes amateur radio fun? This is the 'self-training' that is part of the international definition of AR. Mike, G3XDV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3676 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2001 11:38:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2001 11:38:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 28091 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2001 11:38:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 30 Mar 2001 11:38:35 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ix8D-0008TG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 12:31:53 +0100 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ix8C-0008TB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 12:31:52 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id MAA31419; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 12:34:27 +0100 (BST) Received: (qmail 16597 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2001 12:22:22 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 30 Mar 2001 12:22:22 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id MAA14908; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 12:08:21 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma013991; Fri, 30 Mar 01 12:05:43 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-3.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 12:22:31 +0100 Received: by frn-mail-3.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 12:16:19 +0100 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C041C@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re: Dumbing down Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 12:16:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I'm not criticising the S/W, just saying that in life generally there is a strong tendency to make things excessively simple for everyone to understand, to the detriment of those who really do want to know. Rather than telling them everything and allowing those who don't know to find out. If they are not told, people don't know what they don't know. Have you watched 'Tomorrows World' recently - it's cringing. Or even when something even remotely scientific comes up on the TV News - the newscasters actually apologise for using a technical word ! Andy > -----Original Message----- > From: g3ldo [mailto:g3ldo@ukonline.co.uk] > Sent: 2001-03-30 11:02 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: Re: Dumbing down > > > > Andy said: > > > What we call "Dumbing Down" in the UK (and the US ?). It > happens a lot > > with science programmes on television, and a lot more with science > > education in schools and universites :-( :-(( > > > > > > If you noticed, terms like 'sampling rate', 'FFT size', etc. > > > are totally absent from > > > Argo, which uses a terminology, like sec/dot, taken from the > > > intended usage of > > > the program, and not from its implementation technicalities. > > > > The implied criticism of Alberto's work is inappropriate. To > say that use of > these techniques should not be pursued unless you fully > understand what > 'sampling rate' 'FFT size' etc is like saying you should not > be playing with > RF circuits and antennas unless you have a full grasp of > electromagnetic > theory and Maxwell's equations. > > To me this amateur radio stuff is a hobby. While I appreciate > the value of > the work done by the technically advanced members of the group I also > appreciate the value of the work done by those who have made > such techniques > accessible to those like myself. > > Keep up the good work Alberto. > > Regards, > Peter, G3LDO > > e-mail > > Web > > > > > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7378 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2001 11:20:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2001 11:20:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 5501 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2001 11:20:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 30 Mar 2001 11:20:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14iwqR-0008Mu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 12:13:31 +0100 Received: from ruthenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.138] helo=ruthenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14iwqO-0008Mp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 12:13:28 +0100 Received: from [62.7.115.40] (helo=dave) by ruthenium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14iwpy-0002Z0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 12:13:03 +0100 Message-ID: <003501c0b90a$6200b940$2873073e@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" References: <000d01c0b894$135b6040$a047073e@j1r9b7> Subject: LF: Re: Proposed LF Forum at the Crawley Club Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 12:12:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC G3GRO wrote: >Regretfully therefore the Club committee have to withdraw the offer to host >the event for this year. That is sad, yet another victim of the crisis. There is unlikely to be HF or VHF field days this year. Mr Blair, the countryside is not open! Let us hope possibly another venue can be found. 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@btinternet.com dsergeant@iee.org http://www.btinternet.com/~dsergeant From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2927 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2001 10:13:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2001 10:13:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 25929 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2001 10:13:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 30 Mar 2001 10:13:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ivmH-0007vC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 11:05:09 +0100 Received: from chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ivmC-0007v6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 11:05:05 +0100 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-18-163.easynet.co.uk [212.134.224.163]) by chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 65ECCF81F0 for ; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 11:04:38 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <002301c0b900$ec54e8a0$a3e086d4@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C0413@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Dumbing down Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 11:01:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andy said: > What we call "Dumbing Down" in the UK (and the US ?). It happens a lot > with science programmes on television, and a lot more with science > education in schools and universites :-( :-(( > > > If you noticed, terms like 'sampling rate', 'FFT size', etc. > > are totally absent from > > Argo, which uses a terminology, like sec/dot, taken from the > > intended usage of > > the program, and not from its implementation technicalities. > The implied criticism of Alberto's work is inappropriate. To say that use of these techniques should not be pursued unless you fully understand what 'sampling rate' 'FFT size' etc is like saying you should not be playing with RF circuits and antennas unless you have a full grasp of electromagnetic theory and Maxwell's equations. To me this amateur radio stuff is a hobby. While I appreciate the value of the work done by the technically advanced members of the group I also appreciate the value of the work done by those who have made such techniques accessible to those like myself. Keep up the good work Alberto. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21024 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2001 07:55:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 30 Mar 2001 07:55:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 21234 invoked from network); 30 Mar 2001 07:54:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 30 Mar 2001 07:54:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14itdm-00073D-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 08:48:14 +0100 Received: from [195.47.69.2] (helo=dell1.gmccz.cz.gmc.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14itdk-000738-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 08:48:12 +0100 Received: from p (p.maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net [192.168.1.22]) by dell1.gmccz.cz.gmc.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id G8RYMA6M; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 09:50:46 +0200 Message-ID: <008c01c0b8ed$ae9a94a0$1601a8c0@maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4c.12d909d6.27f521e5@aol.com> Subject: Re: LF: PRUVODKA: PROTECTION 3.14.02 RELEASE Date: Fri, 30 Mar 2001 09:47:34 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi David This message comes really from my office, it is a message that is automatically sent by an utility on some event. I am sorry it was sent to the reflector too, at the moment it looks as a failure of Outlook because the e-mail address if set fixly in an INI file and there is no chance to do this by mistake. I made already some measurements and I hope it will not happen again. Sorry. 73 Petr OK1FiG ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, March 30, 2001 1:40 AM Subject: Re: LF: PRUVODKA: PROTECTION 3.14.02 RELEASE > In a message dated 3/29/01 4:09:59 PM GMT Daylight Time, p.maly@gmc.net > writes: > > << Subj: LF: PRUVODKA: PROTECTION 3.14.02 RELEASE > Date: 3/29/01 4:09:59 PM GMT Daylight Time > From: p.maly@gmc.net (Petr Maly) > Sender: majordom@post.thorcom.com > Reply-to: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org (136 group) > > Pruvodka at: > > file://N:\Income\Protection 3.14.02\info.gmc > >> > > > Is this anything to do with LF? If not, please don't send it. If so, please > include brief explanation. > > Thanks > > David > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3177 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2001 23:50:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2001 23:50:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 5336 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2001 23:50:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 29 Mar 2001 23:50:03 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14im2b-0004Mx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 00:41:21 +0100 Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.7]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14im2Z-0004Ms-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 30 Mar 2001 00:41:20 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.14.) id l.4c.12d909d6 (4259) for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 18:40:21 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <4c.12d909d6.27f521e5@aol.com> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 18:40:21 EST Subject: Re: LF: PRUVODKA: PROTECTION 3.14.02 RELEASE To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 3/29/01 4:09:59 PM GMT Daylight Time, p.maly@gmc.net writes: << Subj: LF: PRUVODKA: PROTECTION 3.14.02 RELEASE Date: 3/29/01 4:09:59 PM GMT Daylight Time From: p.maly@gmc.net (Petr Maly) Sender: majordom@post.thorcom.com Reply-to: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org (136 group) Pruvodka at: file://N:\Income\Protection 3.14.02\info.gmc >> Is this anything to do with LF? If not, please don't send it. If so, please include brief explanation. Thanks David From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8727 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2001 22:24:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2001 22:24:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 16361 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2001 22:24:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 29 Mar 2001 22:24:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ikct-0003jx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 23:10:43 +0100 Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.161]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ikcs-0003js-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 23:10:42 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.14.) id l.8d.4763591 (17228) for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 17:09:41 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <8d.4763591.27f50ca5@aol.com> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 17:09:41 EST Subject: Re: LF: BPSK PLL, wheels To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 70 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Rik, Jim, Rye and all, > The error between input and > output phases could be corrected either by increasing the VCO > frequency until the output phase "catches up" with the input, or > decreasing it until it "slows down" to match the input. The output > phase could shift in either direction, although the end result would > always be to match the input phase. Like in real life, it's sometimes a sad thing to have to decide one way or another. If that PLL could take both routes simultaneously, the result would be perfect soft BPSK again :-) . In the 30's, there was a scheme called "Chireix modulation" which added the power outputs of two phase-modulated class-C transmitters to achieve AM in an efficient way. > I am working on this round thing that can be used to reduce friction rather > than simply dragging things across the ground..... Me too, apparently... I hardly dare say it in public, but in my opinion, re-inventing basic stuff is not so stupid at all. Don't we learn a lot more by own thinking and fiddling than by just believing in the solutions the experts have come up with for us? Trying to catch a glimpse of tiny dots encircling Jupiter in a homemade cardbord-roll telescope may be more exciting and instructive than a great show of colourful deep-sky HST images on the web. Which of course is not bad, either... 73 de Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2531 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2001 21:39:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2001 21:39:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 19398 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2001 21:39:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 29 Mar 2001 21:39:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ik1x-0003Wa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 22:32:33 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ik1w-0003WV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 22:32:32 +0100 Received: from [213.122.162.203] (helo=j1r9b7) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14ik1R-0002f9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 22:32:01 +0100 Message-ID: <004901c0b897$a06dd960$a047073e@j1r9b7> From: "Derek Atter" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <14gpKS-1kYC0WC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> <14h8HU-0thmHAC@fwd06.sul.t-online.com> <14i0Fh-1gkX5sC@fwd06.sul.t-online.com> Subject: LF: Re: PVC Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 22:30:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Uwe, According to my reference book the dielectric constant (permittivity) of PVC varies slightly with frequency. At 1khz the value is given as 3.1 and at 1Mhz as 2.88. I hope this helps ! 73, de Derek G3GRO ----- Original Message ----- From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 9:39 PM Subject: LF: PVC > Hi group, > > is there any who knows or can look up the - ah I do`nt know the correct word - > elecric property constant (dielektrizitätskonstante in the german language) > for PVC ? ok, glass has 2 -12, air 1, ceramic 100 -10000. PVC is not on my > list. > tks for the answer in advance > Uwe/dj8wx > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19215 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2001 21:36:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 29 Mar 2001 21:36:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 16967 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2001 21:36:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 29 Mar 2001 21:36:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ijdz-0003ON-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 22:07:47 +0100 Received: from imo-r12.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.66]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ijdy-0003OB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 22:07:46 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-r12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.14.) id l.63.13e055b0 (17526) for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 16:06:45 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <63.13e055b0.27f4fde4@aol.com> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 16:06:44 EST Subject: Re: LF: Re: PLL filter for BPSK To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rye Gewalt writes: << I always thought that was a standard method of demodulating phase information....>> (and) vernall@xtra.co.nz writes: << This approach may have applicability to detection of weak BPSK signals on LF, but I suspect that a single PLL with free running VCO would be rather useless for noise to signal scenarios. >> I'm not sure we're all talking about the same thing here. Rik, Jim, and I were discussing whether it would be feasible to use a PLL for filtering out abrupt phase transitions in the transmit exciter. I don't see any way of using one for detection at the receive end, for the very reason Bob mentions. 73, John From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24509 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2001 21:14:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 29 Mar 2001 21:14:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 16591 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2001 21:14:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 29 Mar 2001 21:14:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ijdG-0003O9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 22:07:02 +0100 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ijdF-0003O4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 22:07:01 +0100 Received: from [62.7.71.160] (helo=j1r9b7) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14ijck-0007Xy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 22:06:30 +0100 Message-ID: <000d01c0b894$135b6040$a047073e@j1r9b7> From: "Derek Atter" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Proposed LF Forum at the Crawley Club Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 22:05:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Derek Atter After the very successful LF Forum at the RSGB Windsor HF Convention in the UK last October, it was suggested that there may be support for a similar follow-up session in about 6 months time - i.e. about mid-way between HF Conventions. The Crawley Amateur Radio Club volunteered to host such a meeting at their clubhouse in Tilgate Forest and a provisional date of 13th May 2001 was suggested at the time We were about to post a general invitation on the reflector but unfortunately owing to the current problem with foot and mouth disease in some areas of the UK, Tilgate Forest has just been closed to the general public as a precaution in order to protect the children's zoo and the wild deer which roam free in the forest. Since the CARC clubhouse is located right on the edge of the forest and we have been instructed to keep access the club premises to a minimum for the time being. Regretfully therefore the Club committee have to withdraw the offer to host the event for this year. 73, de Derek Atter G3GRO on behalf of Crawley Amateur Radio Club From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15867 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2001 15:14:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2001 15:14:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 1475 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2001 15:14:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 29 Mar 2001 15:14:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14idzi-0001G6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 16:05:50 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [195.47.69.2] (helo=dell1.gmccz.cz.gmc.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14idzh-0001G1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 16:05:50 +0100 Received: from p (p.maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net [192.168.1.22]) by dell1.gmccz.cz.gmc.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id G8RYMAV5; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 17:08:21 +0200 Message-ID: <000101c0b861$6e6316a0$1601a8c0@maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly" To: "136 group" Subject: LF: PRUVODKA: PROTECTION 3.14.02 RELEASE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 16:05:50 +0100 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Pruvodka at: file://N:\Income\Protection 3.14.02\info.gmc ---------- HW and SW improvements Programmer: HW security: caching information red from HW key (dongle). Useful on network. SW security: - added more detailed error messages. - added checking of PMLOGS directory whether user has rights to modify this directory. - DLL now use date only to determine number of days to run in demo mode. It should avoid problems on network. - usage of both PS VIPP and PS BTF in demo mode may cause problems with old license files and this new DLL. In such case download updated license files from FTP. Support: SPATNE CISLO VERZE V PROPERTIES From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17338 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2001 13:52:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 29 Mar 2001 13:52:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 10364 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2001 13:52:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 29 Mar 2001 13:52:01 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ickT-0000nB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 14:46:01 +0100 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ickR-0000n6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 14:46:00 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id OAA25476; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 14:48:34 +0100 (BST) Received: (qmail 26529 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2001 14:36:31 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 29 Mar 2001 14:36:31 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id OAA13708; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 14:22:36 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma013669; Thu, 29 Mar 01 14:22:09 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-3.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 14:51:06 +0100 Received: by frn-mail-3.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 14:44:53 +0100 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C0413@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: A Question Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 14:45:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: What we call "Dumbing Down" in the UK (and the US ?). It happens a lot with science programmes on television, and a lot more with science education in schools and universites :-( :-(( Andy G4JNT > If you noticed, terms like 'sampling rate', 'FFT size', etc. > are totally absent from > Argo, which uses a terminology, like sec/dot, taken from the > intended usage of > the program, and not from its implementation technicalities. -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9060 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2001 13:00:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 29 Mar 2001 13:00:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 24799 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2001 13:00:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 29 Mar 2001 13:00:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14iblE-0000Qo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 13:42:44 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d12lmsgate.de.ibm.com ([195.212.91.199]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14iblC-0000Qj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 13:42:43 +0100 Received: from d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.147]) by d12lmsgate.de.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id OAA337592 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 14:41:31 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (ss6.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.71]) by d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id NAA293372 for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 13:41:27 +0100 Message-ID: <3AC32D48.8790398D@usa.net> Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 14:40:40 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: A Question References: <21660.200103271337@gemini> <000c01c0b826$599244c0$f2c928c3@ericadodd> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Might I suggest that > Alberto does development work, such as amplitude measurement, on Spectran, > which already has this uncalibrated facility. Having said that I find that > the improvements so far made to Argo have not compromised simplicity. > Peter, Laurie and others, we are in full agreement on this. The main reason for developing Argo when Spectran did already exist was to have a program very simple to use. If you noticed, terms like 'sampling rate', 'FFT size', etc. are totally absent from Argo, which uses a terminology, like sec/dot, taken from the intended usage of the program, and not from its implementation technicalities. And this simplicity will always be of upmost priority. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10838 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2001 11:07:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2001 11:07:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 13110 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2001 11:07:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 29 Mar 2001 11:07:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14iaAs-0008OO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 12:01:06 +0100 Received: from cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14iaAp-0008OJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 12:01:03 +0100 Received: from modem-120.panther-grouper.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.46.120] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14iaAR-0005V4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 12:00:39 +0100 Message-ID: <000e01c0b837$070d5440$782e893e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. (TECH) A Question. Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 10:59:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Alberto, I fully support Peters comments about the operational simplicity of ARGO. I am sure recent T/A successes were due to this.73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27453 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2001 10:17:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2001 10:17:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 24303 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2001 10:17:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 29 Mar 2001 10:17:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14iZLp-00087O-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 11:08:21 +0100 Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.47]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14iZLm-00087J-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 11:08:18 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.99.11]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010329100751.JALQ281.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 11:07:51 +0100 Message-ID: <000301c0b838$19a818a0$0b6368d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20010320155747.2b1f164c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <3AC08874.8322911@usa.net> Subject: LF: Re: [TECH] A question Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 11:01:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alberto, This facility exists on Spectrgram. Perhaps you can e-mail Richard Horne and see what he did. Mike, G3XDV ========== > I am implementing both in Argo and Spectran a function that will > display the relative level (in dB) of the spectral lines when you hover the > mouse cursor over them. So far so good. > What I am uncertain about, is that word, 'relative'. Relative to what ? > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16497 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2001 08:09:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO guinness.servers.plus.net) (212.159.3.230) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2001 08:09:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 7317 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2001 08:02:04 -0000 Received: from post.thorcom.com (212.172.148.70) by mx.last.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2001 08:02:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14iXMI-0007MF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 09:00:42 +0100 Received: from hatfield.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.39]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14iXME-0007MA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 09:00:38 +0100 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-6-242.easynet.co.uk [195.40.201.242]) by hatfield.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id BE36722E62D for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 09:00:08 +0100 (BST) Message-ID: <000c01c0b826$599244c0$f2c928c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <21660.200103271337@gemini> Subject: LF: Re: Re: A Question Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 23:44:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Adding an amplitude measurement capability to Argo/Spectran > sounds like an excellent idea - it would enable a meaningful > measurement of relative signal strengths to be made. > DL4YHF's Spectrum Lab has such a facility - Spectrogram also had this facility with a calibrated scale. I use it sometimes for measuring the relative levels of signals. Alberto, Wolf and others have done a great job in providing us with FFT S/W and I would just like to make a comment. One of the main virtues of Argo (as well as its effectiveness) is its simplicity. This is of utmost importance in an operational situation. Ensuring that the receiver is set up correctly, that the transmitter operating correctly, while at the same time (under certain conditions) operating an HF link can take a lot of effort. To have software that is so easy to use is a big help in these situations. However, there is always improvements that can be made. Might I suggest that Alberto does development work, such as amplitude measurement, on Spectran, which already has this uncalibrated facility. Having said that I find that the improvements so far made to Argo have not compromised simplicity. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19992 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2001 04:35:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 29 Mar 2001 04:35:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 21973 invoked from network); 29 Mar 2001 04:35:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 29 Mar 2001 04:35:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14iTOR-000647-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 04:46:39 +0100 Received: from mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.15]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14iTON-000642-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 04:46:35 +0100 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.181.42]) by mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010329034550.OTUB13618927.mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Thu, 29 Mar 2001 15:45:50 +1200 Message-ID: <005601c0b802$ccff4260$58b51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000b01c0b7d3$630617a0$1de57ad5@default> Subject: LF: Re: PLL filter for BPSK Date: Thu, 29 Mar 2001 15:45:34 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, While PLL systems are in service for systems having quite good signal to noise ratio (such as telephone modems) it is quite another thing to try and decode the wanted signal when it is a noise to signal situation. For other than LF applications I have been looking at "dejitter" countermeasures for accurate clock recovery from signals passing through digital links (the sampling causes phase jitter in the original signals), and it seems that a dual PLL setup is an answer. PLL#1 to recover what clock signal can be readily found, then PLL#2 to clean up the jitter from PLL#1. PLL#2 could need to have a high performance oven oscillator VCO, to hold centre frequency for long periods, so it is not without complication. This approach may have applicability to detection of weak BPSK signals on LF, but I suspect that a single PLL with free running VCO would be rather useless for noise to signal scenarios. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15459 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2001 22:12:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 28 Mar 2001 22:12:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 6030 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2001 22:12:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 28 Mar 2001 22:12:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14iO6v-0004Et-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 23:08:13 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14iO6u-0004Eo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 23:08:12 +0100 Received: from [213.122.229.29] (helo=default) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14iO6S-0003eZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 23:07:44 +0100 Message-ID: <000b01c0b7d3$630617a0$1de57ad5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: PLL filter for BPSK Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 20:13:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, well there are several simulators for PLL systems that will allow you to play with loop gain, and filter characteristics whilst tracking the transient response. So it should be quite easy to see whether this one will run. As an example I believe there is a simulator for the 4046 on the Philips site. I certainly have Pascal source code from one of the Journals of a few years ago. You can tell how long ago because I ran it under Turbo Pascal III !! Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22982 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2001 22:11:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Mar 2001 22:11:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 5007 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2001 22:11:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 28 Mar 2001 22:11:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14iO4d-0004B4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 23:05:51 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.sitestar.net ([205.160.234.10] helo=mail.neocom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14iO4c-0004Az-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 23:05:50 +0100 Received: from sitestar.net (reston-gnap-ip-216006-151.dynamic.ziplink.net [216.8.6.151]) by mail.neocom.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f2SM5Gp21689 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 17:05:16 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AC260FB.8BE8602E@sitestar.net> Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 17:08:59 -0500 From: "Rye Gewalt" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: WOLF (BPSK) modulation continuous phase modulation. References: <97.132e3372.27f3537e@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I always thought that was a standard method of demodulating phase information..... I am working on this round thing that can be used to reduce friction rather than simply dragging things across the ground..... Rye WarmSpgs@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 3/28/01 2:58:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, > rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be writes: > > << What happens if you send a BPSK (instant phase switching) as reference > signal to a PLL ? >> > > An interesting thought. T From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12074 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2001 20:21:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 28 Mar 2001 20:21:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 6380 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2001 20:21:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 28 Mar 2001 20:21:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14iMM6-0003bw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 21:15:46 +0100 Received: from imo-r17.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.71]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14iMM4-0003br-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 21:15:45 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-r17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.33.12a9e073 (25106) for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 15:14:27 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <33.12a9e073.27f3a01d@aol.com> Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 15:14:21 EST Subject: RE: LF: Re: A Question To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Disposition: Inline X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 217 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi Alberto, Jim, and LF group,

As Jim already wrote, the amplitude measuring facility of Spectrum Lab uses a
more or less arbitrarily chosen scale which is 0 dB for the lowest possible
signal which can be detected (with a 16 bit ADC). However, I am not very
happy with that choice myself. There is also the possibility of using Andy's
CFAR noise detection algorithm (it is hidden somewhere in the spectrum alert
function, works perfect except for the case when there is no input signal at
all ;-).

Someone (was it Alberto ?) has already written about the problem that some
soundcards seem to use a kind of AGC (no matter what the mixer settings say),
 making absolute measurements inaccurate in the presence of static crashes
etc.

IMO, a good solution is to display the difference (in dB) from the 'cursor
position' to a definable 'reference area' where either the noise level or the
amlitude of a reference generator can be measured. An optional "smoothing"
(or averaging) of the displayed dB value can also help.

Alberto, if you find a good solution for this I would like to know how it
works. Thanks...

Good luck for now,
73s Wolf (DL4YHF).
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26091 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2001 19:13:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 28 Mar 2001 19:13:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 8168 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2001 19:14:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 28 Mar 2001 19:14:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14iLJn-0003Gu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 20:09:19 +0100 Received: from tomts7.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.40] helo=tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14iLJl-0003Gp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 20:09:18 +0100 Received: from server1 ([216.209.110.41]) by tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010328190823.JUEB24361.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 14:08:23 -0500 Message-ID: <003e01c0b7ba$708665b0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20010328085558.2f57efaa@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: Re: LF: RE: WOLF (BPSK) modulation continuous phase modulation. Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 09:04:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings All: From: "Rik Strobbe" > That is 100% correct, my aim is to find a trade-off between simplicity and > bandwidth. This is standard practice for any CW transmitter where > key-clicks are surpressed to an acceptable level. Oh my, the "acceptable level" issue around hard keying again. I thought this discussion was only undertaken in the high speed CW community - at 50 WPM on CW I use hard keying, very hard keying, as an aid to making the CW copyable as the speed increases. Some operators in the CW community find the hard keying hard to take, but I also find the "bell" like keying of some signals so very objectionable - to each his own. The issue of BPSK keying should in my opinion focus around determining the losses in signal recovery when the phase reversal is "softened". If the loss is measurable in the receive system performance then it should not be done. Pushing the envelope of LF propagation with BPSK must not be degraded by "softening" the keying, if it does in a measurable way, say .1 dB or more then I for one just wont use such a system here at all. This position might sound a tad hard for some of you on this reflector but I have only to look at the Loran signal garbage to tell me what good engineering practice allows. We need do nothing better than that service is achieving. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20781 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2001 18:00:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Mar 2001 18:00:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 16958 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2001 18:00:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 28 Mar 2001 18:00:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14iK8g-0002rX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 18:53:46 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14iK8d-0002rS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 18:53:43 +0100 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14iK8G-0005DO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 18:53:20 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <15264.200103281753@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 18:58:17 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: BPSK modulation - PLL X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Rick, LF group, Suppose the PLL is phase locked to the input signal, and suddenly a 180degrees phase transition occurs at the input. There would then be an error signal in the loop, which would force the relative phase of the output to change until it matched the input signal again. The phase would have to change in a continuous fashion since the loop filter would prevent the VCO tuning voltage from changing discontinuously - presumably, you could control the rate at which the phase changed by altering the loop filter time constants. But I can see a problem - what will the PLL do at the instant the phase changes? as far as the phase detector is concerned, a sudden 180degree phase change could mean either a lead of 180 degrees or a lag of 180degrees. The error between input and output phases could be corrected either by increasing the VCO frequency until the output phase "catches up" with the input, or decreasing it until it "slows down" to match the input. The output phase could shift in either direction, although the end result would always be to match the input phase. The PLL texts call the period that the circuit is achieving the phase-locked condition the "capture transient", and each capture transient is an individual, depending on the type of phase detector, the timing of the input transient relative to the VCO output phase, residual phase errors and noise in the loop, etc, etc. The output phase can go through a much more complicated trajectory than the input. Therefore, each output phase transition would be different as well as gradual; presumably, this would add a noise-like element to the sidebands of the signal. Hopefully, there would be an equal number of "up" transitions as "down" transitions, otherwise the mean frequency of the output would be different to that of the input. What effect all this would have on the bandwidth, and communications efficiency of the signal, I don't know, but for a simple circuit, behaviour would be quite complex. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21111 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2001 15:06:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 28 Mar 2001 15:06:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 602 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2001 15:06:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 28 Mar 2001 15:06:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14iHR5-0001rm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 16:00:35 +0100 Received: from imo-r12.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.66]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14iHR4-0001rf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 16:00:34 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-r12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.53.44a5545 (17527) for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 09:59:25 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <53.44a5545.27f3564d@aol.com> Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 09:59:25 EST Subject: Re: LF: RE: WOLF (BPSK) modulation continuous phase modulation. To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 3/28/01 2:58:35 AM Eastern Standard Time, rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be writes: << What happens if you send a BPSK (instant phase switching) as reference signal to a PLL ? >> An interesting thought. (Apologies to everyone for the previous message which ended at this point. I was typing merrily along, when AOL abruptly announced: "your mail has been sent.") The PLL would certainly perform filtering action, but I suspect some attention would need to be paid to the loop filter. There will be a tradeoff to be determined between settling speed and overshoot, but apart from that I'd think it would be physically simpler to implement than the high-Q filtering and limiting. An abrupt 180 degree transition is a bit ambiguous for some phase detectors to handle, so a single stage of L-C pre-filtering may still be desirable. Overall, though, this seems as if it should be practical to try. 73, John From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 926 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2001 11:49:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Mar 2001 11:49:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 23423 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2001 11:49:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 28 Mar 2001 11:49:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14iEKa-0000nn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:41:40 +0100 Received: from rubellite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14iEKV-0000nh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 12:41:36 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust210.tnt3.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.116.100.210]) by rubellite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 293AC2A0F for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 11:40:48 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <003a01c0b77c$104292c0$d26474d5@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <14gpKS-1kYC0WC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> <14h8HU-0thmHAC@fwd06.sul.t-online.com> <14i0Fh-1gkX5sC@fwd06.sul.t-online.com> Subject: LF: Re: PVC Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 13:29:37 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: According to one of my books the dielectric constant of PVC is 3.5. 73, Dick, PA0SE ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- Van: jannsen <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> Aan: Verzonden: dinsdag 27 maart 2001 22:39 Onderwerp: LF: PVC > Hi group, > > is there any who knows or can look up the - ah I do`nt know the correct word - > elecric property constant (dielektrizitätskonstante in the german language) > for PVC ? ok, glass has 2 -12, air 1, ceramic 100 -10000. PVC is not on my > list. > tks for the answer in advance > Uwe/dj8wx > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2375 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2001 09:40:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Mar 2001 09:40:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 24186 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2001 09:40:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 28 Mar 2001 09:40:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14iCKf-000052-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 10:33:37 +0100 Received: from e1.ny.us.ibm.com ([32.97.182.101]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14iCKa-00004u-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 10:33:33 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (northrelay01.pok.ibm.com [9.117.200.21]) by e1.ny.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id EAA145708 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 04:31:49 -0500 Received: from usa.net (ss1.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.66]) by northrelay01.pok.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id EAA64866 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 04:33:04 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AC1AFA8.894F6591@usa.net> Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 11:32:24 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: [TECH] A question References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C0407@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andy, thanks for your suggestion. As a matter of fact I am already using your algorithm ! I use it to compute the brightness levels for the spectrogram, but only when AGC is on. So, with AGC on, the brightness is a (non-linear) function of the ratio between the magnitude and the base noise level computed with the CFAR method. I learnt it from your previous post of many months ago, I liked it, and I put it into immediate use. I will use it when implementing the S/N display, together with the choice of selecting first a frequency range, whose mean level will be the noise reference level for the computation. For the present problem, displaying a relative strenght level, I think I will allow the choice between the two main methods that have been suggested, i.e. referring it either to the saturation value of the ADC, or to a previously choosen reference level. 73 Alberto I2PHD Talbot Andrew wrote: > One method for determining S/N ration in an environment where signals > and noise are constantly changing - used a lot in Radar and Other > techniques - is an algorithm called Constant False Alarm Rate. I > covered this in detail in postings to this reflector several months ago, > but basically the technique is as follows : > > 1) Perform an FFT on a block of data > 2) Sort all the bins into increasing order of amplitude. > 3) Take the amplitude of the lower quartile bin. > 4) Add 3dB to this figure and this gives a very good approximation > to the noise level > 5) For new signal alarm and signal detection add a threshold - 10dB > is a good starting point > 6) Check for successive hits above this threshold N out of M times > before indicating valid. > > You will only be interested in satges 1) to 4). This assumes the real > noise level is flat across the FFT width, which I hope is true for all > narrowband work, but not necesssarily so for full SSB bandwidth > sampling. > > Andy G4JNT > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21958 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2001 07:59:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Mar 2001 07:59:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 12784 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2001 07:59:41 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 28 Mar 2001 07:59:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14iAmp-00084r-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:54:35 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14iAmo-00084m-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:54:34 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA124868 for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 09:54:11 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010328085558.2f57efaa@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:55:58 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: RE: WOLF (BPSK) modulation continuous phase modulation. In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >However, I believe the object of Rik's proposal was to decrease bandwidth >while retaining as much simplicity in the system as possible. If one can >abide the slower phase transitions of the filtered signal, and the modest >increase in bandwidth from not having dragged out the transitions even >further, the technique should work at moderate power levels. It's a >collection of trade-offs, as is anything in engineering. Hello John and group, That is 100% correct, my aim is to find a trade-off between simplicity and bandwidth. This is standard practice for any CW transmitter where key-clicks are surpressed to an acceptable level. If one would want a CW transmission with absolute minimal key-clicks the same kind of envelloping as used with PSK would be needed, the soft keying we use is a compromise. The main reason why 'rude BPSK' has a relative large bandwidth (compared to CW) is because : - the 180 degrees phase jumps are the equivalent of an extreme hard keying - the BPSK sidebands are 6dB stronger than CW sidebands (this is directly related to the 1/-1 switching versus 1/0 switching that gives BPSK a 6dB advantage over CW). My goal is to make the phase transition 'less hard' in order to reduce the bandwidth of a (10BPS) BPSK transmission to that of a normal keyed (12WPM) CW transmission. BTW, another idea : What happens if you send a BPSK (instant phase switching) as reference signal to a PLL ? The reaction time of the PLL would depend on the feedback circuitery, maybe this could also be used to get 'soft phase transistions'. At 136kHz the whole PLL could be incorporated in a single CMOS4046, just 1 cheap IC and half a dozen resistors/capacitors might do the job. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15140 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2001 07:54:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 28 Mar 2001 07:54:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 5913 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2001 07:54:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 28 Mar 2001 07:54:42 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14iAhi-00080a-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:49:18 +0100 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14iAhf-00080U-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:49:15 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id IAA04113; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:51:49 +0100 (BST) Received: (qmail 27874 invoked from network); 28 Mar 2001 08:39:52 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 28 Mar 2001 08:39:51 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id IAA01297; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:26:02 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma001241; Wed, 28 Mar 01 08:25:29 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:54:14 +0100 Received: by frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:48:17 +0100 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C0407@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: [TECH] A question Date: Wed, 28 Mar 2001 08:48:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: One method for determining S/N ration in an environment where signals and noise are constantly changing - used a lot in Radar and Other techniques - is an algorithm called Constant False Alarm Rate. I covered this in detail in postings to this reflector several months ago, but basically the technique is as follows : 1) Perform an FFT on a block of data 2) Sort all the bins into increasing order of amplitude. 3) Take the amplitude of the lower quartile bin. 4) Add 3dB to this figure and this gives a very good approximation to the noise level 5) For new signal alarm and signal detection add a threshold - 10dB is a good starting point 6) Check for successive hits above this threshold N out of M times before indicating valid. You will only be interested in satges 1) to 4). This assumes the real noise level is flat across the FFT width, which I hope is true for all narrowband work, but not necesssarily so for full SSB bandwidth sampling. Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: Alberto di Bene [mailto:dibene@usa.net] > Sent: 2001-03-27 13:33 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: [TECH] A question > > > I have a question for you all. > > I am implementing both in Argo and Spectran a function that will > display the relative level (in dB) of the spectral lines when > you hover the > mouse cursor over them. So far so good. > What I am uncertain about, is that word, 'relative'. Relative > to what ? > > One possibility is to first click on a given point of the > display, take this > bin amplitude as a reference, and the values subsequently > displayed will > be relative to this reference level. But frankly I don't > like this solution > very much, even if this will be perhaps the correct way to measure > the S/N ratio, but this is another topic. > > Another solution which has been suggested is to take as reference > level the saturation level of the ADC. This is quite valid is case of > a single signal, but on a real case what will happen with this method > is that the measured level will vary depending on the total > input to the > ADC, even if the signal being measured is constant in amplitude. > > I gave a thought about using the Parseval equation, but > before pursuing > this further, I decided to ask the question here, as perhaps > this problem > has been already encountered and solved by others. > I am open to any suggestions and advices. Thanks. > > 73 Alberto I2PHD > > > > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7297 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 21:14:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 21:14:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 28025 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 21:14:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 21:14:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14i0iS-0004iW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 22:09:24 +0100 Received: from cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14i0iS-0004iR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 22:09:24 +0100 Received: from modem-21.cleaner-wrasse.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.246.21] helo=robing) by cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14i0i3-0004uZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 22:08:59 +0100 Message-ID: <000901c0b6fa$14fd55c0$15f6883e@robing> From: "Robin T. Greenwood" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <14gpKS-1kYC0WC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> <14h8HU-0thmHAC@fwd06.sul.t-online.com> <14i0Fh-1gkX5sC@fwd06.sul.t-online.com> Subject: LF: Re: PVC Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 21:11:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dielectric constant is 4 and loss tangent is 600x10*4 Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 9:39 PM Subject: LF: PVC > Hi group, > > is there any who knows or can look up the - ah I do`nt know the correct word - > elecric property constant (dielektrizitätskonstante in the german language) > for PVC ? ok, glass has 2 -12, air 1, ceramic 100 -10000. PVC is not on my > list. > tks for the answer in advance > Uwe/dj8wx > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7591 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 20:46:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 20:46:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 8394 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 20:46:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 20:46:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14i0GU-0004Xz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 21:40:30 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout01.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.80]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14i0GT-0004Xu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 21:40:29 +0100 Received: from fwd06.sul.t-online.com by mailout01.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14i0G2-0001CY-02; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 22:40:02 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.156.6.152]) by fwd06.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14i0Fh-1gkX5sC; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 22:39:41 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <14gpKS-1kYC0WC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> <14h8HU-0thmHAC@fwd06.sul.t-online.com> Subject: LF: PVC X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 22:39:41 +0200 Message-ID: <14i0Fh-1gkX5sC@fwd06.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi group, is there any who knows or can look up the - ah I do`nt know the correct word - elecric property constant (dielektrizitätskonstante in the german language) for PVC ? ok, glass has 2 -12, air 1, ceramic 100 -10000. PVC is not on my list. tks for the answer in advance Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29276 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 16:43:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 16:43:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 11400 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 16:43:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 16:43:04 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hwPY-0003DJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:33:36 +0100 Received: from imo-m06.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.161]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hwPU-0003DB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:33:32 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-m06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.a5.1380e6e8 (9823) for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:32:24 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:32:24 EST Subject: Re: LF: RE: WOLF (BPSK) modulation continuous phase modulation. To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 3/26/01 12:06:05 PM Eastern Standard Time, j.r.moritz@herts.ac.uk writes: << But unfortunately, any clipping or AGC will distort the amplitude envelope, which in turn will re-introduce unwanted sidebands. >> This may be a matter of semantics, but clipping won't actually "re-introduce" sidebands. While AGC would indeed distort the amplitude envelope and worsen sidebands, hard RF clipping eliminates envelope variations entirely. The consequence of clipping is that we no longer have the envelope to help us further suppress the phase-modulation sidebands. The sidebands themselves remain just as they would for any continuous-shift PSK signal--less energetic than for brute-force instantaneous PSK, but broader than if we retained the amplitude variations that accompany appropriate filtering. The ideal case would be to generate a waveform based on root-raised-cosine filtering in the exciter, use envelope-elimination-and-recovery to amplify the signal at maximum efficiency, and use a corresponding filter at the receive end. However, I believe the object of Rik's proposal was to decrease bandwidth while retaining as much simplicity in the system as possible. If one can abide the slower phase transitions of the filtered signal, and the modest increase in bandwidth from not having dragged out the transitions even further, the technique should work at moderate power levels. It's a collection of trade-offs, as is anything in engineering. 73, John From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2494 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 16:01:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 16:01:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 9364 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 16:01:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 16:01:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hvnh-00031l-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 16:54:29 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d12lmsgate.de.ibm.com ([195.212.91.199]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hvnX-0002xr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 16:54:22 +0100 Received: from d12relay02.de.ibm.com (d12relay02.de.ibm.com [9.165.215.23]) by d12lmsgate.de.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id RAA108130 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:49:25 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (ss7.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.72]) by d12relay02.de.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id RAA87158 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:46:34 +0200 Message-ID: <3AC0B655.29F2EB18@usa.net> Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 17:48:38 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: A Question References: <21660.200103271337@gemini> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > > I don't understand why the measured level will vary with the total > input - surely provided the A/D converter is not overloaded, the > signal component being displayed should only be proportional to > the amplitude of that component of the input signal? > Thanks to all who answered so far (I am still open to suggestions !). Jim, yes, I used the wrong phrasing to express what I had in mind. What I meant is that I cannot use the instantaneous level in the time domain as a parameter of the equation that computes the dB value of the bin, as the same input level can be obtained by summing different frequency components. Would the following method be acceptable : I compute (using the Parseval equation) what the single bin magnitude would be if I feed to the ADC only a pure sinusoid such that the ADC is just at the saturation point (i.e. a level of 32767 for a 16-bit card). Then I use the computed magnitude as a reference value to display the dB values of the various bins, which would of course be all negative with this method. What do you all think of this ? Thanks for feedbacks. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20702 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 13:53:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 13:53:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 10876 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 13:53:16 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 13:53:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14htos-0002HB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 14:47:34 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14htoq-0002H6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 14:47:33 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA197658 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 15:47:04 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010327144852.2dc73d3c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 14:48:52 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF:(TECH) A question. In-reply-to: <001201c0b6b8$9b6ca440$afb5883e@g3aqc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Alberto, I agree with Laurie for measuring the strength of a signal. Another usefull 'option' might be to give the SNR of any signal you put the cursor on, so in that case the reference has to be the 'background noise'. 73, Rik ON7YD At 13:22 27/03/01 +0100, you wrote: >Alberto,I am not an expert here, but if I wanted to compare signals over a period of time, I would think it necessesary to establish a reference level say from a signal generator.This would include all the elements in the chain including the reciever.So if a ref. level is established in this way, clicking on this first and then on the unknown signal would determine the difference in db as you suggest. For what its worth! 73s Laurie. > >Attachment Converted: "C:\EUDORA\ATTACH\LF(TECH).htm" > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7989 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 13:43:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 13:43:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 20881 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 13:43:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 13:43:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14htfG-0002Fe-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 14:37:38 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14htfF-0002FY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 14:37:38 +0100 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14hter-0000MI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 14:37:13 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <21660.200103271337@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 14:42:09 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Re: A Question X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Alberto, LF group, Adding an amplitude measurement capability to Argo/Spectran sounds like an excellent idea - it would enable a meaningful measurement of relative signal strengths to be made. DL4YHF's Spectrum Lab has such a facility - I don't know how Wolf has implemented this, but the amplitude scale seems to be fixed relative to the input full scale or minumum resolution. I think this is as good a method as any - there are many different ways one might want to specify the amplitude or SNR. I don't understand why the measured level will vary with the total input - surely provided the A/D converter is not overloaded, the signal component being displayed should only be proportional to the amplitude of that component of the input signal? Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20877 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 13:30:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 13:30:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 28967 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 13:30:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 13:30:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14htRk-0002As-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 14:23:40 +0100 Received: from mail3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14htRh-0002An-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 14:23:37 +0100 Received: from modem-175.eldamar.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.181.175] helo=g3aqc) by mail3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14htRJ-0004y8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 14:23:14 +0100 Message-ID: <001201c0b6b8$9b6ca440$afb5883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF:(TECH) A question. Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 13:22:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Alberto,I am not an expert here, but if I wanted to compare signals over a period of time, I would think it necessesary to establish a reference level say from a signal generator.This would include all the elements in the chain including the reciever.So if a ref. level is established in this way, clicking on this first and then on the unknown signal would determine the difference in db as you suggest. For what its worth! 73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20955 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 12:41:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 12:41:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 689 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 12:41:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 12:41:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hsgC-0001rJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 13:34:32 +0100 Received: from e21.nc.us.ibm.com ([32.97.136.227]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hsg9-0001rE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 13:34:29 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com [9.37.3.208]) by e21.nc.us.ibm.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id HAA23398 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 07:28:46 -0600 Received: from usa.net (ss2.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.67]) by southrelay01.raleigh.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id HAA36018 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 07:33:36 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AC08874.8322911@usa.net> Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 14:32:52 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: [TECH] A question References: <3.0.1.16.20010320155747.2b1f164c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have a question for you all. I am implementing both in Argo and Spectran a function that will display the relative level (in dB) of the spectral lines when you hover the mouse cursor over them. So far so good. What I am uncertain about, is that word, 'relative'. Relative to what ? One possibility is to first click on a given point of the display, take this bin amplitude as a reference, and the values subsequently displayed will be relative to this reference level. But frankly I don't like this solution very much, even if this will be perhaps the correct way to measure the S/N ratio, but this is another topic. Another solution which has been suggested is to take as reference level the saturation level of the ADC. This is quite valid is case of a single signal, but on a real case what will happen with this method is that the measured level will vary depending on the total input to the ADC, even if the signal being measured is constant in amplitude. I gave a thought about using the Parseval equation, but before pursuing this further, I decided to ask the question here, as perhaps this problem has been already encountered and solved by others. I am open to any suggestions and advices. Thanks. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21868 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 11:32:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 11:32:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 29425 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 11:32:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 11:32:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hrb7-0001WH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 12:25:13 +0100 Received: from [195.47.69.2] (helo=dell1.gmccz.cz.gmc.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hrb5-0001WC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 12:25:12 +0100 Received: from p (p.maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net [192.168.1.22]) by dell1.gmccz.cz.gmc.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id G8RYL04R; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 13:27:39 +0200 Message-ID: <031b01c0b6b0$746be020$1601a8c0@maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000201c0b622$de4b6440$36ea7ad5@default> <01ad01c0b68f$896d63c0$1601a8c0@maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net> <000d01c0b6a3$38c912c0$5f6e883e@g3aqc> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: DX Cluster spots for 24/25th Mar at GB7DXM Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 13:24:14 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: That's right. I was surprised how fast the signal dropped down. From the beginning it looked for "armchair copy" QSO but at the end it was pretty hard for me to get RST at least. It was either short positive peak in the conditions or vice versa sharp drop down during QSO. 73 Petr OK1FiG ----- Original Message ----- From: Laurie Mayhead To: Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 11:48 AM Subject: LF: Re: Re: DX Cluster spots for 24/25th Mar at GB7DXM > Hi Petr, your signal dropped from Q5 to Q4 or less during our QSO. Perhaps > we were seeing the arrival of disturbed condx due to CMEs. 73s Laurie. > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Petr Maly" > To: > Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 8:28 AM > Subject: LF: Re: DX Cluster spots for 24/25th Mar at GB7DXM > > > > Hi all > > I was on air again this weekend. On Saturday there was a lot of stations > and > > conditions were good. On Sunday the band was totally empty and deaf > (except > > a QSO with G3AQC). Is there any explanation for this? > > > > 73 Petr OK1FiG > > > > > > ----- Original Message ----- > > From: Alan Melia > > To: LF-Group > > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 5:15 PM > > Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots for 24/25th Mar at GB7DXM > > > > > > > Hi all, not a lot of spots this week, and whilst I did not do a lot of > > > listening, when I was within range of the radio it seemed fairly quiet. > > > > > > 136.7 OK1FIG 25-Mar-2001 1130Z cq cq ... > > > > > > 136.8 ON6NL 24-Mar-2001 1410Z in QSO with dl/om2tw . 519 > > > > > > 136.8 DL/OM2TW 24-Mar-2001 1408Z 519in jo32qg,he in jo52bd > > > > > > 136.7 DL/OM2TW 24-Mar-2001 1400Z 559 cq > > > > > > 137.1 OK1FIG 24-Mar-2001 1355Z 559 cq > > > > > > 136.5 PA3CPM 22-Mar-2001 1901Z calling cq UK > > > > > > 136.5 DJ6FU 21-Mar-2001 1719Z cq cq > > > > > > 137.7 OM2YL 18-Mar-2001 1557Z CQ on QRSS > > > > > > 137.2 OM2TW 18-Mar-2001 1546Z CQ 599... > > > > > > 137.2 OK1DTN 18-Mar-2001 1235Z CQ > > > > > > G3NYK de GB7MRS 26-Mar-2001 1500Z > > > > > > > Cheers de Alan G3NYK JO02PB > > > Alan.Melia@btinternet.com > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16682 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 10:58:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 10:58:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 19071 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 10:58:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 10:58:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hr3f-0001HM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:50:39 +0100 Received: from cmailg5.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.175]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hr3a-0001HH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:50:35 +0100 Received: from modem-95.anfauglith.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.110.95] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg5.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14hr3B-00015A-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 11:50:09 +0100 Message-ID: <000d01c0b6a3$38c912c0$5f6e883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000201c0b622$de4b6440$36ea7ad5@default> <01ad01c0b68f$896d63c0$1601a8c0@maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net> Subject: LF: Re: Re: DX Cluster spots for 24/25th Mar at GB7DXM Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 10:48:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Petr, your signal dropped from Q5 to Q4 or less during our QSO. Perhaps we were seeing the arrival of disturbed condx due to CMEs. 73s Laurie. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Petr Maly" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 27, 2001 8:28 AM Subject: LF: Re: DX Cluster spots for 24/25th Mar at GB7DXM > Hi all > I was on air again this weekend. On Saturday there was a lot of stations and > conditions were good. On Sunday the band was totally empty and deaf (except > a QSO with G3AQC). Is there any explanation for this? > > 73 Petr OK1FiG > > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: Alan Melia > To: LF-Group > Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 5:15 PM > Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots for 24/25th Mar at GB7DXM > > > > Hi all, not a lot of spots this week, and whilst I did not do a lot of > > listening, when I was within range of the radio it seemed fairly quiet. > > > > 136.7 OK1FIG 25-Mar-2001 1130Z cq cq ... > > > > 136.8 ON6NL 24-Mar-2001 1410Z in QSO with dl/om2tw . 519 > > > > 136.8 DL/OM2TW 24-Mar-2001 1408Z 519in jo32qg,he in jo52bd > > > > 136.7 DL/OM2TW 24-Mar-2001 1400Z 559 cq > > > > 137.1 OK1FIG 24-Mar-2001 1355Z 559 cq > > > > 136.5 PA3CPM 22-Mar-2001 1901Z calling cq UK > > > > 136.5 DJ6FU 21-Mar-2001 1719Z cq cq > > > > 137.7 OM2YL 18-Mar-2001 1557Z CQ on QRSS > > > > 137.2 OM2TW 18-Mar-2001 1546Z CQ 599... > > > > 137.2 OK1DTN 18-Mar-2001 1235Z CQ > > > > G3NYK de GB7MRS 26-Mar-2001 1500Z > > > > > Cheers de Alan G3NYK JO02PB > > Alan.Melia@btinternet.com > > > > > > > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23397 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 10:15:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 10:15:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 6021 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 10:15:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 10:15:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hqAm-00010T-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 10:53:56 +0100 Received: from ruthenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.138] helo=ruthenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hqAi-00010O-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 10:53:53 +0100 Received: from [213.1.158.186] (helo=default) by ruthenium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14hqAI-0006ln-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 10:53:27 +0100 Message-ID: <000c01c0b6a3$9c2d1aa0$ba9e01d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: solar alert Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 10:50:36 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The attached was received from NASA this morning, the sun has become very active suddenly within the last few days, so expect a prolonged period of disturbed conditions. ------------------------------ SOLAR ACTIVITY: In recent days the Boulder sunspot number has rocketed to 339, its highest level since July 2000. At least one large sunspot group has a complex magnetic field that could harbor energy for powerful solar flares. Forecasters estimate a 20% chance of an X-class eruption during the next 24 hours. AURORA WATCH: An interplanetary shock wave buffeted Earth's magnetosphere Tuesday morning and another may be following close behind. A coronal mass ejection that left the Sun on March 25th will arrive late Tuesday or Wednesday and possibly trigger additional geomagnetic disturbances. In recent days Alaskan sky watchers have enjoyed some of the best auroras of the current solar cycle. Check out our gallery of aurora photos for the latest images. ---------------------- Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13501 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 07:33:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 07:33:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 9332 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 07:33:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 07:33:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hnuh-0000E4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 08:29:11 +0100 Received: from [195.47.69.2] (helo=dell1.gmccz.cz.gmc.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hnud-0000Dz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 08:29:08 +0100 Received: from p (p.maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net [192.168.1.22]) by dell1.gmccz.cz.gmc.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id G8RYL0PD; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 09:31:36 +0200 Message-ID: <01ad01c0b68f$896d63c0$1601a8c0@maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000201c0b622$de4b6440$36ea7ad5@default> Subject: LF: Re: DX Cluster spots for 24/25th Mar at GB7DXM Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 09:28:36 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all I was on air again this weekend. On Saturday there was a lot of stations and conditions were good. On Sunday the band was totally empty and deaf (except a QSO with G3AQC). Is there any explanation for this? 73 Petr OK1FiG ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Melia To: LF-Group Sent: Monday, March 26, 2001 5:15 PM Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots for 24/25th Mar at GB7DXM > Hi all, not a lot of spots this week, and whilst I did not do a lot of > listening, when I was within range of the radio it seemed fairly quiet. > > 136.7 OK1FIG 25-Mar-2001 1130Z cq cq ... > > 136.8 ON6NL 24-Mar-2001 1410Z in QSO with dl/om2tw . 519 > > 136.8 DL/OM2TW 24-Mar-2001 1408Z 519in jo32qg,he in jo52bd > > 136.7 DL/OM2TW 24-Mar-2001 1400Z 559 cq > > 137.1 OK1FIG 24-Mar-2001 1355Z 559 cq > > 136.5 PA3CPM 22-Mar-2001 1901Z calling cq UK > > 136.5 DJ6FU 21-Mar-2001 1719Z cq cq > > 137.7 OM2YL 18-Mar-2001 1557Z CQ on QRSS > > 137.2 OM2TW 18-Mar-2001 1546Z CQ 599... > > 137.2 OK1DTN 18-Mar-2001 1235Z CQ > > G3NYK de GB7MRS 26-Mar-2001 1500Z > > > Cheers de Alan G3NYK JO02PB > Alan.Melia@btinternet.com > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15337 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 07:33:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 07:33:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 9215 invoked from network); 27 Mar 2001 07:33:20 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 27 Mar 2001 07:33:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hntp-0000Dx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 08:28:17 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hntm-0000Ds-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 08:28:14 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA194198 for ; Tue, 27 Mar 2001 09:27:50 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010327082941.2dc732c6@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 27 Mar 2001 08:29:41 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: RE: WOLF (BPSK) modulation continuous phase modulation. In-reply-to: <25798.200103261700@gemini> References: <3.0.1.16.20010326144713.21b765b2@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03FA@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov .uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Jim & LF group, That is indeed another way to have a look at it. But I would't try to make a perfect envelloped BPSK signal (that would take a filter with a Q of many 1000) but a signal that has a bandwidth that is approximately the same as that of a normal CW signal. The same way as the key clicks are surpressed by soft keying (avoiding steep slopes) I would try to avoid the 'steep' phase jumps and spread the 180 degrees phase change over a few milliseconds. 73, Rik ON7YD At 18:05 26/03/01 +0000, you wrote: >Dear Rik, LF Group, > >Another way of looking at this modulation method is that the high Q >tuned circuit acts as a narrow filter which removes the unwanted >sidebands of your "rude" BPSK - the signal will certainly be >amplitude modulated at the output of the tuned circuit; in fact it will >look very similar to the "ideal" envelope-modulated BPSK signal. >This is effectively another way of generating the BPSK signal, >analagous to generating SSB by the filter method. But >unfortunately, any clipping or AGC will distort the amplitude >envelope, which in turn will re-introduce unwanted sidebands. > >Of course, if the filter was placed at the transmitter output, this >criticism would not apply. But although it is probably possible, >producing an antenna tuning network with a loaded Q of 700 would >be quite difficult. > >Cheers, Jim Moritz >73 de M0BMU > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24425 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2001 18:36:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 26 Mar 2001 18:36:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 10519 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2001 18:36:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Mar 2001 18:36:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hbmf-0004dY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 19:32:05 +0100 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hbmd-0004dT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 19:32:04 +0100 Received: from [213.122.234.54] (helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14hbmG-0002A4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 19:31:40 +0100 Message-ID: <000201c0b622$de4b6440$36ea7ad5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots for 24/25th Mar at GB7DXM Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 16:15:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, not a lot of spots this week, and whilst I did not do a lot of listening, when I was within range of the radio it seemed fairly quiet. 136.7 OK1FIG 25-Mar-2001 1130Z cq cq ... 136.8 ON6NL 24-Mar-2001 1410Z in QSO with dl/om2tw . 519 136.8 DL/OM2TW 24-Mar-2001 1408Z 519in jo32qg,he in jo52bd 136.7 DL/OM2TW 24-Mar-2001 1400Z 559 cq 137.1 OK1FIG 24-Mar-2001 1355Z 559 cq 136.5 PA3CPM 22-Mar-2001 1901Z calling cq UK 136.5 DJ6FU 21-Mar-2001 1719Z cq cq 137.7 OM2YL 18-Mar-2001 1557Z CQ on QRSS 137.2 OM2TW 18-Mar-2001 1546Z CQ 599... 137.2 OK1DTN 18-Mar-2001 1235Z CQ G3NYK de GB7MRS 26-Mar-2001 1500Z > Cheers de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26198 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2001 17:38:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2001 17:38:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 1607 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2001 17:38:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Mar 2001 17:38:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hasQ-0004JU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 18:33:58 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hasP-0004JP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 18:33:57 +0100 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14has1-0006Ak-00; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 18:33:33 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <27831.200103261733@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, lowfer@qth.net Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 18:38:24 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: M0BMU Wolf Beacon X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group and Lowfers, Unfortunately, I was not able to transmit beacon signals last night due to a local power cut. However, I hope to be on tonight, between 0000 and 0200, on 137.500kHz again. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19173 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2001 17:07:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2001 17:07:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 19413 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2001 17:07:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 26 Mar 2001 17:07:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14haMI-00048J-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 18:00:46 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14haMH-00048E-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 18:00:45 +0100 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14haLt-0005Zs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 18:00:21 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <25798.200103261700@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 18:05:15 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: RE: WOLF (BPSK) modulation continuous phase modulation. In-reply-to: <3.0.1.16.20010326144713.21b765b2@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03FA@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov .uk> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Rik, LF Group, Another way of looking at this modulation method is that the high Q tuned circuit acts as a narrow filter which removes the unwanted sidebands of your "rude" BPSK - the signal will certainly be amplitude modulated at the output of the tuned circuit; in fact it will look very similar to the "ideal" envelope-modulated BPSK signal. This is effectively another way of generating the BPSK signal, analagous to generating SSB by the filter method. But unfortunately, any clipping or AGC will distort the amplitude envelope, which in turn will re-introduce unwanted sidebands. Of course, if the filter was placed at the transmitter output, this criticism would not apply. But although it is probably possible, producing an antenna tuning network with a loaded Q of 700 would be quite difficult. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6857 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2001 15:20:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2001 15:20:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 11145 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2001 15:20:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 26 Mar 2001 15:20:05 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hYgS-0003aD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 16:13:28 +0100 Received: from imo-r16.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.70]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hYgO-0003a8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 16:13:25 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-r16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.a8.1307a98e (3970) for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 10:12:35 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 10:12:34 EST Subject: Re: LF: RE: WOLF (BPSK) modulation continuous phase modulation. To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 3/26/01 8:49:52 AM Eastern Standard Time, rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be writes: << So if one would send a 'rude BPSK' signal (as is created with an XOR gate) through a resonant LC-circuit you will get continuous phase shift at the output. The phase shift time will depend on the Q of the LC-circuit.... (snip).... A side effect will be that there is also some AM created, but this can be 'corrected' by an AGC amplifier (or just hard clipping, but this might increase bandwidth too much). >> Hard clipping will not increase bandwidth if one has indeed made the phase shift continuous by that point in the circuit. In fact, it will be a necessity. AGC could not be made fast enough to remove the amplitude variations, and if they are not removed, a practical power amplifier following the high-Q circuitry would tend to reintroduce extraneous sidebands. 73, John From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20752 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2001 13:50:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Mar 2001 13:50:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 12410 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2001 13:50:50 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 26 Mar 2001 13:50:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hXJi-000361-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:45:54 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hXJf-00035w-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:45:51 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA42588 for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 15:45:21 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010326144713.21b765b2@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 14:47:13 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: RE: WOLF (BPSK) modulation continuous phase modulation. In-reply-to: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03FA@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov .uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Over the weekend I had a closer look at the possibilities of reducing the bandwidth of a BPSk signal by continuous phase modulation. Simple simulations show that the bandwidth of the signal is reduced when continuous phase modulation is applied. When 5% of the bit-time (= 5ms) is allowed the continuous phase shift the bandwidth of the BPSK signal should be less than that of a normal keyed CW transmission at 12WPM. Next question was how to implement the continuous phase shift? One way would be to implement this digital, but this would require a rather high reference oscillator (in the 30-100MHz range, depending on how 'soft' the signal should be). But there might be an alternative and much simpler way : If you send an RF signal through a (resonant) LC-circuit this circuit will act as a kind of 'freewheel' where any change of amplitude ... and phase will be 'softened'. So if one would send a 'rude BPSK' signal (as is created with an XOR gate) through a resonant LC-circuit you will get continuous phase shift at the output. The phase shift time will depend on the Q of the LC-circuit, for our purposes (+/- 5ms phase shift time) we would need a Q of about 700. At 136kHz it should not be impossible to achieve such a Q, especially if we not use a simple passive LC circuit but a LC-circuit with feedback amplifier. A side effect will be that there is also some AM created, but this can be 'corrected' by an AGC amplifier (or just hard clipping, but this might increase bandwidth too much). A main advantage would be that the whole BPSK modulation circuitery can be inserted between VFO and PA. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3557 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2001 10:50:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 26 Mar 2001 10:50:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 4670 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2001 10:50:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 26 Mar 2001 10:50:57 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hUUd-00029I-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 11:44:59 +0100 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hUUZ-00029D-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 11:44:55 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id LAA25558; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 11:47:24 +0100 (BST) Received: (qmail 28299 invoked from network); 26 Mar 2001 11:35:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 26 Mar 2001 11:35:34 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id LAA01542; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 11:21:53 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma001320; Mon, 26 Mar 01 11:21:09 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 11:49:34 +0100 Received: by frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Mon, 26 Mar 2001 11:43:42 +0100 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C0405@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: "LF Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: LF Propagation Monitoring using LORAN Date: Mon, 26 Mar 2001 11:43:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: A couple of weeks ago there was discussion on this reflector about using LORAN as a source of LF propagation information. I forwarded these on to Perter, G3PLX, who looked at LOARN for this purpose some time ago. Here are the two responses received from him : Andy G4JNT ------------------------------------------------------------------------ ------------------ Thanks for the LORAN information. I had, as you will remember in the days I was active on LF, done the LORAN software and was seeing most of the phenomena quoted. If you remember, I was able to integrate the energy received over the 136 kHz band and show that ALL the LORAN transmitters audible on 100kHz were also emitting crap on 136kHz. I must have another look, especially for the dx signals, about which I had no chain GRI data. Looking for individual spectral lines is not at all a good way to detect distant LORAN, since the amount of power in one spectral line is a very small proportion of the total signal power. It's rather better to receive the full bandwidth coherently at 100kHz, integrating the I and Q signals in an array of "time bins" at the group repetition rate, and watch the narrow sqrt(sqr(I)+sqr(Q) pulses creep out of the noise as time goes by. --------------------------------------------------------------------- -----Original Message----- From: Peter Martinez [mailto:Peter.Martinez@btinternet.com] Sent: 2001-03-25 20:09 To: Talbot Andrew Subject: Re: LF Propagation Monitoring Andy: I dug out the LORAN software and had another play with it, and also visited the Megapulse site to get a copy of the table mentioned by one of your correspondents. As a result I have been able to identify all the signals he was hearing, including some of the Newfoundland sites, the West Russian one and the Saudi chain. I am doing this by listening in a 3 kHz band straddling 100kHz and coherently demodulating and integrating I/Q over several minutes at the chosen group repetition rate. I have also started writing a program to streamline this activity. It isn't finsihed yet but will be able to derive frequency and time references from one transmitter (for example Lessay) and use this to attempt to coherently demodulate and synchronously detect other signals, although I probably won't use the fascinating fact that all LORAN transmitters emitted their first pulses at midnight on 01/01/1958 to get the timing absolute. Such a program could be written for a soundcard/PC combination and would just need a receiver, preferably the full LORAN bandwidth, tuned to make 100kHz appear in the centre of the sampled audio band. At the moment I am running it on my old DSP card and I don't think I could make it run on the EVM because the front-end processing requires rather more data fed to the PC than I can squeeze down the serial port. 73 Peter -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18953 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2001 20:59:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 25 Mar 2001 20:59:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 20471 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2001 20:59:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 25 Mar 2001 20:59:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hHX7-0006P0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Mar 2001 21:54:41 +0100 Received: from ds-img-7.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.153] helo=spdmbaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hHX6-0006Os-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Mar 2001 21:54:40 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmbaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id PAA21849 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Mar 2001 15:53:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 15:53:24 -0500 From: "boffin1" Subject: Re: LF: Old Radcoms and PWs To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200103251553_MC2-C9FE-2A3E@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I still have one or two from pre-war days but in those days it had the magnificent title "T and R Bulletin" ! Roger, G2AJV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18512 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2001 19:38:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2001 19:38:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 15753 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2001 19:38:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 25 Mar 2001 19:38:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hGFU-0005xn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Mar 2001 20:32:24 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [194.200.20.13] (helo=mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hGFT-0005xi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Mar 2001 20:32:23 +0100 Received: from userbu62.netscapeonline.co.uk ([62.125.146.45] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 14hGA6-0005bN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Mar 2001 19:26:51 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3ABE3955.118DD7FD@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 19:30:45 +0100 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: G3IPL/73 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello All G3IPL/Don died suddenly last week. He was issued with one of the original 73 khz permits. He was licensed in his early teens and was only 66 years old. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1360 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2001 16:56:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2001 16:56:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 16387 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2001 16:56:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 25 Mar 2001 16:56:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hDjj-00058m-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Mar 2001 17:51:27 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout06.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hDji-00058h-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Mar 2001 17:51:26 +0100 Received: from fwd05.sul.t-online.com by mailout06.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14hDjH-0003im-02; Sun, 25 Mar 2001 18:50:59 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0607144537-0001@[193.159.158.122]) by fwd05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14hDjA-0jTwXoC; Sun, 25 Mar 2001 18:50:52 +0200 From: "bernd grupe" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <14gpKS-1kYC0WC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> <14h8HU-0thmHAC@fwd06.sul.t-online.com> Subject: Re: LF: TECH> new applet X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 18:50:52 +0200 Message-ID: <14hDjA-0jTwXoC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0607144537-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Hallo Bernd, > ich habe mir deine downloads mal angeschaut. rfc1.zip und rcode.zip lassen > sich > downloaden. vy dks dafür, Bernd. > spule.-, loop.- und resonanz.zip kann ich nicht herunterladen. seite nicht > vorhaden, heißt es. sri. > vy 73 > Uwe/dj8wx > > Hallo Uwe, danke für die Rückmeldung. Habe jetzt die fehlenden files alle mehrfach hochgeladen. mein Browser IE5.5 spinnt manchmal. Er behält die Seiteninformation während einer Sitzung gespeichert und reagiert nicht auf Aktualisieren. Daher kann ich oft nicht prüfen, ob eine seite wirklich verfügbar ist, wenn vorhergehend ein Fehler aufgetreten war. Nun aber habe ich den download geprüft, es geht! Viel spass mit den Programmen. Ich arbeite gerade an einem zusätzliche Applet. Es wird eine dB-Umrechnung machen und hat eine Vielfachskala für dBuV , Ueff/50 Ohm, S VHF und S HF usw. 73 Bernd,DF8ZR From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5901 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2001 16:21:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 25 Mar 2001 16:21:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 4148 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2001 16:21:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 25 Mar 2001 16:21:35 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hD4V-0004wz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Mar 2001 17:08:51 +0100 Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14hD4U-0004wu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Mar 2001 17:08:50 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from PBRS176562@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.87.8a7745e (4252) for ; Sun, 25 Mar 2001 11:07:53 -0500 (EST) From: PBRS176562@aol.com Message-ID: <87.8a7745e.27ef71d9@aol.com> Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 11:07:53 EST Subject: Re: LF: Old Radcoms and PWs To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Disposition: Inline X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows UK sub 58 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit hi
well the rsgb has gone all modern offering radcom's on cd-rom however at a
price sure the cd rom take up less room.
but I still prefer the old paper copies and my collection of radcom takes up
two book cases and i have the complete sets  from 1950-2000 back then it was
called radio communication. One day I hope to have the complete paper set.

73 Paul RS176562
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1369 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2001 11:08:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Mar 2001 11:08:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 11502 invoked from network); 25 Mar 2001 11:08:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 25 Mar 2001 11:08:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14h8I4-0003RM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Mar 2001 12:02:32 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout05.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14h8I3-0003RH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Mar 2001 12:02:31 +0100 Received: from fwd06.sul.t-online.com by mailout05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14h8Hc-0002f1-0C; Sun, 25 Mar 2001 13:02:04 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.227.109.157]) by fwd06.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14h8HU-0thmHAC; Sun, 25 Mar 2001 13:01:56 +0200 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <14gpKS-1kYC0WC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> Subject: Re: LF: TECH> new applet X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sun, 25 Mar 2001 13:01:56 +0200 Message-ID: <14h8HU-0thmHAC@fwd06.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: bernd grupe schrieb: > Hello group, > > There has born an new applet on my homepage: > > http://go.to/df8zr > > choose: Applets --> name: RFC1 > > It's programmed like a calculator and written in JAVA. You can run it > online > or download the zip-file as well. Hope it will be a useful tool for you. But > before scratching the assignments i would please you to proof the right > English > terms. Any suggestions for improvements are welcome.Thanks in advance.. > vy 73 bernd, DF8ZR > > Hallo Bernd, ich habe mir deine downloads mal angeschaut. rfc1.zip und rcode.zip lassen sich downloaden. vy dks dafür, Bernd. spule.-, loop.- und resonanz.zip kann ich nicht herunterladen. seite nicht vorhaden, heißt es. sri. vy 73 Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12969 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2001 23:06:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Mar 2001 23:06:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 4189 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2001 23:06:57 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 24 Mar 2001 23:06:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gx20-0008LJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 23:01:12 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from outbound.charter.net ([24.216.159.200] helo=front002.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gx1z-0008K2-00; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 23:01:11 +0000 Received: from [24.240.102.247] (HELO z6l3g7.highnoonfilm.com) by front002.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4b8) with ESMTP id 48742572; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 18:00:17 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010324165624.02d3ecb0@highnoonfilm.com> X-Sender: les@highnoonfilm.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 16:59:35 -0600 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Les Rayburn" Subject: Re: LF: Re: wolf and inputpwr Cc: lowfer@qth.net In-reply-to: <000901c0b4a4$cc589ed0$687a37c0@w2ksn> References: <3.0.5.32.20010322142117.0083bc10@pop3.esoterica.pt> <14gsjv-0BYKP2C@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 12:55 PM 3/24/01 -0800, Stewart Nelson wrote: >Hi Uwe and all, > >The present implementation of WOLF, unfortunately, has very poor >dynamic range. The BPSK signal must be between -20 dB and -50 dB, >relative to full scale. > >If you are receiving your own transmission, or one from a nearby >station, you may need to reduce the record level by 20 dB to prevent >internal overload when it starts averaging. > >If you are trying to receive a signal buried in noise, you should >set the record level so that frequent peaks reach -6 dB or higher, >even if it means that occasional static crashes overload. >This will ensure that the -50 dB minimum is not a limiting factor. > >If your Rx output is dominated by a strong interfering carrier, it may >not be possible to set the record level high enough. In this case, >try to reduce the interference with a narrower IF filter, with a notch >filter, or by preprocessing the recording through an audio editor >with filtering features. > >Although 8-bit recordings normally degrade the effective S/N only >slightly, recording in 16 bits can be a big help if the signal is >mostly QRM, rather than noise. > >You will have to live with the dynamic range limitations for quite >a while, because my priorities are for improving usability and weak >signal performance. Sorry for the trouble it has caused. > >73, > >Stewart KK7KA > I think we'd all agree that no apologies are necessary. This software is remarkable, and the first practical application of something that developers have "talked" about for years. You are to be congratulated. Many have mentioned features they would like to see, including GUI interface, real time processing, etc...but I think your priority for development should rightly be weak signal performance. Thank you again for your efforts that have benefited all of us! Les Rayburn, N1LF Les Rayburn, N1LF 4919 Cox Cove Helena, AL 35080 XMGR 184.8988khz WOLF Mode 1LF 187.300khz Looking for a challenge? Try the ultimate weak signal mode, on 1750 Meters! Visit the Noise Floor! http://www.highnoonfilm.com/xmgr From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16519 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2001 21:00:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Mar 2001 21:00:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 2154 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2001 21:00:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 24 Mar 2001 21:00:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gv4M-0007jC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 20:55:30 +0000 Received: from cobalt4.source.net ([206.100.10.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gv4K-0007j7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 20:55:29 +0000 Received: from w2ksn (windev1.scgroup.com [192.55.122.104]) by cobalt4.source.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA27879 for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 12:55:03 -0800 Message-ID: <000901c0b4a4$cc589ed0$687a37c0@w2ksn> From: "Stewart Nelson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.5.32.20010322142117.0083bc10@pop3.esoterica.pt> <14gsjv-0BYKP2C@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> Subject: LF: Re: wolf and inputpwr Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 12:55:45 -0800 Organization: SC Group MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Uwe and all, The present implementation of WOLF, unfortunately, has very poor dynamic range. The BPSK signal must be between -20 dB and -50 dB, relative to full scale. If you are receiving your own transmission, or one from a nearby station, you may need to reduce the record level by 20 dB to prevent internal overload when it starts averaging. If you are trying to receive a signal buried in noise, you should set the record level so that frequent peaks reach -6 dB or higher, even if it means that occasional static crashes overload. This will ensure that the -50 dB minimum is not a limiting factor. If your Rx output is dominated by a strong interfering carrier, it may not be possible to set the record level high enough. In this case, try to reduce the interference with a narrower IF filter, with a notch filter, or by preprocessing the recording through an audio editor with filtering features. Although 8-bit recordings normally degrade the effective S/N only slightly, recording in 16 bits can be a big help if the signal is mostly QRM, rather than noise. You will have to live with the dynamic range limitations for quite a while, because my priorities are for improving usability and weak signal performance. Sorry for the trouble it has caused. 73, Stewart KK7KA ----- Original Message ----- From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: Sent: Saturday, March 24, 2001 10:26 AM Subject: LF: wolf and inputpwr > Hi all WOLFers, > I am in the believe WOLF decodes vy weak signals. but with my equipment it > decodes only if dp: is higher than abt 32. seems Brians line (down on the page) > proves that for true. > what is wrong with my believe ? > > WOLF version 0.52 > t: 24 f:-0.646 a: 0.5 dp: -4.9 ci: 0 cj:302 ??????????????? - > t: 48 f: 0.356 a: 0.4 dp: -9.0 ci: 0 cj:302 ??????????????? - > > t: 24 f: 0.356 a: 0.4 dp: -5.0 ci: 7 cj:384 ??????????????? - > t: 48 f: 0.355 a: 0.5 dp: -9.2 ci: 7 cj:277 ??????????????? - > > t: 24 f:-0.646 a: 0.5 dp: -5.2 ci: 0 cj:302 ??????????????? - > t: 48 f: 0.351 a: 0.8 dp:-10.3 ci: 6 cj:297 ??????????????? - > > t: 24 f:-0.001 a: 0.5 dp: 20.4 ci:13 cj:136 ????????????/O* - > t: 48 f:-0.001 a: 0.5 dp: 19.6 ci: 6 cj: 91 Q94???????????? ? > > t: 24 f: 0.000 a:-0.6 dp: 31.7 ci:12 cj: 63 31O3Z4053???3OW ? > t: 48 f: 0.001 a:-0.7 dp: 26.0 ci:12 cj: 63 3TNU1O053???3OW ? > > t: 24 f: 0.000 a:-0.0 dp: 33.4 ci:14 cj:104 RFJ*TV8*K/1KRH* ? > t: 48 f: 0.000 a:-0.0 dp: 29.3 ci:11 cj:145 G.4YPJQIFDV*2.W ? > > a line from Brian: > t: 24 f: 0.001 a:-1.2 dp: 79.9 ci: 9 cj: 44 CQ M0BMU M0BMU - > > t: 24 f: 0.000 a: 1.4 dp:139.3 ci: 0 cj:373 531531531531531 - > t: 48 f: 0.000 a: 1.4 dp:135.2 ci:10 cj:427 K*4/USY0JZLB9P/ ? > > regards > Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21609 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2001 18:33:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Mar 2001 18:33:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 26271 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2001 18:32:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 24 Mar 2001 18:32:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gskQ-00070g-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 18:26:46 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout02.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.17]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gskP-00070b-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 18:26:45 +0000 Received: from fwd07.sul.t-online.com by mailout02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14gsjz-0007F5-07; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 19:26:19 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.157.30.185]) by fwd07.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14gsjv-0BYKP2C; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 19:26:15 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.5.32.20010322142117.0083bc10@pop3.esoterica.pt> Subject: LF: wolf and inputpwr X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 19:26:15 +0100 Message-ID: <14gsjv-0BYKP2C@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all WOLFers, I am in the believe WOLF decodes vy weak signals. but with my equipment it decodes only if dp: is higher than abt 32. seems Brians line (down on the page) proves that for true. what is wrong with my believe ? WOLF version 0.52 t: 24 f:-0.646 a: 0.5 dp: -4.9 ci: 0 cj:302 ??????????????? - t: 48 f: 0.356 a: 0.4 dp: -9.0 ci: 0 cj:302 ??????????????? - t: 24 f: 0.356 a: 0.4 dp: -5.0 ci: 7 cj:384 ??????????????? - t: 48 f: 0.355 a: 0.5 dp: -9.2 ci: 7 cj:277 ??????????????? - t: 24 f:-0.646 a: 0.5 dp: -5.2 ci: 0 cj:302 ??????????????? - t: 48 f: 0.351 a: 0.8 dp:-10.3 ci: 6 cj:297 ??????????????? - t: 24 f:-0.001 a: 0.5 dp: 20.4 ci:13 cj:136 ????????????/O* - t: 48 f:-0.001 a: 0.5 dp: 19.6 ci: 6 cj: 91 Q94???????????? ? t: 24 f: 0.000 a:-0.6 dp: 31.7 ci:12 cj: 63 31O3Z4053???3OW ? t: 48 f: 0.001 a:-0.7 dp: 26.0 ci:12 cj: 63 3TNU1O053???3OW ? t: 24 f: 0.000 a:-0.0 dp: 33.4 ci:14 cj:104 RFJ*TV8*K/1KRH* ? t: 48 f: 0.000 a:-0.0 dp: 29.3 ci:11 cj:145 G.4YPJQIFDV*2.W ? a line from Brian: t: 24 f: 0.001 a:-1.2 dp: 79.9 ci: 9 cj: 44 CQ M0BMU M0BMU - t: 24 f: 0.000 a: 1.4 dp:139.3 ci: 0 cj:373 531531531531531 - t: 48 f: 0.000 a: 1.4 dp:135.2 ci:10 cj:427 K*4/USY0JZLB9P/ ? regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5408 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2001 14:53:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 24 Mar 2001 14:53:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 24134 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2001 14:53:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 24 Mar 2001 14:53:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gpL2-0005v1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 14:48:20 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout04.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.18]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gpL1-0005uw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 14:48:20 +0000 Received: from fwd04.sul.t-online.com by mailout04.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14gpKa-00058N-06; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 15:47:52 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0607144537-0001@[193.159.116.52]) by fwd04.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14gpKS-1kYC0WC; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 15:47:44 +0100 From: "bernd grupe" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: TECH> new applet X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 15:47:44 +0100 Message-ID: <14gpKS-1kYC0WC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0607144537-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello group, There has born an new applet on my homepage: http://go.to/df8zr choose: Applets --> name: RFC1 It's programmed like a calculator and written in JAVA. You can run it online or download the zip-file as well. Hope it will be a useful tool for you. But before scratching the assignments i would please you to proof the right English terms. Any suggestions for improvements are welcome.Thanks in advance.. vy 73 bernd, DF8ZR From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23167 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2001 13:26:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 24 Mar 2001 13:26:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 28197 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2001 13:26:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 24 Mar 2001 13:26:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gnzD-0005US-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 13:21:43 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ruthenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.138] helo=ruthenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gnzC-0005UN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 13:21:42 +0000 Received: from [62.7.58.162] (helo=host62-7-58-162.btinternet.com) by ruthenium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14gnyp-0002fi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 13:21:20 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Nick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: The EF50 Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 13:20:29 +0000 Message-ID: <47nobt4669lvk7goshag8sgcgoqr7uijhn@4ax.com> References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010320102742.00aa05a0@mail.pncl.co.uk> In-reply-to: <5.0.2.1.2.20010320102742.00aa05a0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:11:06 +0000, you wrote: >Although off-subject there seems to be a lot of interest in the EF50. >Attached is a text-only version of a recent article written by >Keith Thrower, an ex-Director of Racal and an electronics historian. >It comes from the journal of the "Centre for the History of Defence >Electronics" >at Bournemouth University - http://chide.bournemouth.a.c.uk The URL should be http://chide.bournemouth.ac.uk Nick From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3099 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2001 13:11:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Mar 2001 13:11:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 21642 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2001 13:10:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 24 Mar 2001 13:10:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gniM-0005Pe-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 13:04:18 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gniJ-0005PZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 13:04:15 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14gnhx-0004cy-00; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 13:03:53 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <4331.200103241303@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: lowfer@qth.net, rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 13:08:45 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: M0BMU Wolf Beacon X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Lowfers/LF Group, I operated the Wolf BPSK beacon on 137.500kHz last night from 0000 until 0400. Due to other commitments, I will not be QRV tonight, but the beacon will be operating again on Sunday night. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14974 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2001 05:48:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 24 Mar 2001 05:48:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 11811 invoked from network); 24 Mar 2001 05:48:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 24 Mar 2001 05:48:08 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ggoP-0003Ja-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 05:42:05 +0000 Received: from imo-m08.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.163]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ggoO-0003JV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 05:42:04 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-m08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.50.133161ec (3972) for ; Sat, 24 Mar 2001 00:41:04 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <50.133161ec.27ed8d6f@aol.com> Date: Sat, 24 Mar 2001 00:41:03 EST Subject: Re: LF: BPSK and bandwidth To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 3/23/01 12:11:23 PM Eastern Standard Time, mike.dennison@rsgb.org.uk writes: << We must not be trapped into thinking that bandwidths close to those used for QRSS are essential. >> An interesting thought. Spectrum usage depends on more than just the bandwidth of a signal, after all. It's also related to the amount of time required to complete a transfer of information, and sometimes also ergonomic issues. A couple of years ago, I witnessed a curious thing on 160m. A couple of stations using AM phone had a half-hour QSO on 1995kHz, reminiscing about the good old days of amplitude modulation, occupying a total of about 10kHz. During and after that conversation, in the course of checking the band, I encountered some SSB operators a little lower on the dial, discoursing mightily about what a terrible waste of spectrum AM is, and how it shouldn't be allowed on the air. Through continual misuse of incremental tuning, their QSO was occupying about 4kHz, and it went on for two hours. So, the AM QSO used 5kHz-hours while the SSB QSO used 8kHz-hours of spectrum. Now, obviously, this isn't a comparison based on technical issues only. But it does illustrate that occupied bandwidth is not the whole story of spectrum utilization. If one technique uses sub-Hertz bandwidths but requires multiple nights to complete a rudimentary QSO, while another technique needs tens of Hertz but can complete the same QSO in half an hour, there is no necessary reason to exclude the broader method from a band plan. 73, John From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15918 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 21:46:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 21:46:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 26281 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 21:46:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 21:46:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gZGh-0000v9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 21:38:47 +0000 Received: from cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.171]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gZGf-0000v4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 21:38:45 +0000 Received: from modem-70.boromir.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.141.70] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14gZGG-0000pk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 21:38:21 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01c0b3e1$7c0fd600$468d883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. Beacon Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 21:36:58 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
In view of the disturbed conditions,I will not run the beacon tonight. Could do with an early night Hi. 73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15667 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 20:13:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 20:13:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 20934 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 19:13:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 19:13:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gWtk-0008SS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 19:06:56 +0000 Received: from cobalt4.source.net ([206.100.10.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gWti-0008SN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 19:06:54 +0000 Received: from w2ksn (windev1.scgroup.com [192.55.122.104]) by cobalt4.source.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA09027 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 11:06:28 -0800 Message-ID: <008d01c0b3cc$6fe51bc0$687a37c0@w2ksn> From: "Stewart Nelson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03FE@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Re: WOLF - Transmit Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 11:06:56 -0800 Organization: SC Group MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=Windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Andy and all, In my implementation, the code which uses pnpat is intertwined with modulation, etc., so I didn't include it. Sorry. The output of enccnv is an array 480 long, as is pnpat. You transmit the first enccnv output, then the first bit of pnpat, then the second enccnv output, etc. If the message is all blanks, the result of enccnv is all zeros. In this case, the final transmit data stream would begin with 00000101010101000100010001010000. 73, Stewart KK7KA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Talbot Andrew" To: Sent: Friday, March 23, 2001 3:56 AM Subject: LF: Re: WOLF - Transmit > Where is the array pnpat[] used ? It is declared at the end of the > listing you sent, but not referenced anywhere else. > Not being a C programmer, it will take a bit ot time to translate the > code ;-| > Andy G4JNT From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18320 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 19:52:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 19:52:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 17656 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 18:46:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 18:46:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gWST-0008IG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 18:38:45 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gWSS-0008IB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 18:38:44 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14gWS6-0000vI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 18:38:22 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <17490.200103231838@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 18:43:13 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Wolf BPSK beacon X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Will be running the WOLF beacon again tonight from 0000utc onwards, on 137.500kHz. If anyone would like to try some tests over the weekend, please let me know. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25856 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 18:39:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 18:39:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 234 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 17:12:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 17:12:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gUwa-0007TI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:01:44 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gUwY-0007T5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:01:42 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:55:03 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:55:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Old Radcoms and PWs Message-ID: <3ABB7FE4.1085.1A1E785@localhost> In-reply-to: <002301c0b3b7$d23d6580$aa86d13e@mud> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >......... I wondered if anyone would be interested in piles of old > Radcom and Practical Wireless from 1972 and thereabouts. Goodness knows why > I kept them but they've got to go! > Dave G3YXM, Birmingham. Dave, [commercial break] Can I interest you in the CD versions of these RadComs? They use up far less space. [end commercial break] Mike Dennison, G3XDV Publications Manager * RadCom * GB2RS News * * RSGB Books and CDs * * RSGB Online Web Site * Radio Society of Great Britain Lambda House, Cranborne Road Potters Bar, Herts UK, EN6 3JE Tel: +44 (0) 1707 659015; Fax: +44 (0) 1707 645105 www.rsgb.org RSGB - UK AMATEUR RADIO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22473 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 18:38:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 18:38:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 963 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 17:12:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 17:12:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gUwa-0007TH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:01:44 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gUwY-0007T4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 17:01:42 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:52:01 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:51:59 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: BPSK and bandwidth Message-ID: <3ABB7F2F.20903.19F22D8@localhost> In-reply-to: <8799.200103231602@gemini> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jim posed some possible flaws in alternative ways of generating BPSK in terms of bandwidth. I think we must work out what is an acceptable bandwidth for LF transcontinental working (or indeed any other distance or path). We must not be trapped into thinking that bandwidths close to those used for QRSS are essential. They may be convenient - even efficient - but if there is room on the band for people to use CW for intra-Europe working, why be forced into anything less for inter-continental? This means 30dB bandwidths in the region of 100Hz and 60dB bandwidths of, say 500Hz. In practice, there are very few people close enough to each other for a signal 60dB down to be audible at all. Plainly there must be enough space to accommodate a group of people trying to work across the Atlantic, but this is a bandplanning issue not a technical one. In short, if it is acceptable for me to use CW to work VE, it should be acceptable for BPSK to have the same practical bandwidth. I bet that will start a battle!!! Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22697 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 17:04:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 17:04:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 29349 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 17:04:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 17:04:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gUpQ-0007Q5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:54:20 +0000 Received: from ruthenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.138] helo=ruthenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gUpP-0007Q0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:54:19 +0000 Received: from [62.7.97.8] (helo=dave) by ruthenium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14gUp1-0002MN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:53:55 +0000 Message-ID: <000f01c0b3ba$25ada5c0$0861073e@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <28702.200103221619@gemini> Subject: LF: Re: Key clicks Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:52:21 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC >Actually, key clicks are never likely to be a huge issue on LF; when >compared to HF standards, even a full 1W ERP is a sub-QRP >signal, and the higher noise level will tend to swamp clicks from all >but the most local stations anyway. I am not sure this generalisation is really true. I receive quite a few stations who are up to s9 + 20dB and they are hardly 'most local'. Local noise level varies considerably between stations, and with many of us the limiting factor is loran - I was in the shack a week ago when Lessay went off air for around 10 seconds - I saw first hand what my noise level was without it, and how strong it really was. Although I am not aware of any stations with key clicks, I am pretty sure I would be able to copy the clicks if they were there on the stronger stations I hear, even with loran. By the way, I just happened to spot this remark in the 'sea' of wolf messages yesterday. Most of course get deleted before I read them.. Cheers Dave G3YMC dsergeant@btinternet.com dsergeant@iee.org http://www.btinternet.com/~dsergeant From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22479 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 16:50:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 16:50:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 7013 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 16:50:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 16:50:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gUbJ-0007Ju-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:39:45 +0000 Received: from [62.209.144.6] (helo=sniffout.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gUbI-0007Jp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:39:44 +0000 Received: from mud ([62.209.128.200]) by sniffout.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.977.9); Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:39:20 +0000 Message-ID: <002301c0b3b7$d23d6580$aa86d13e@mud> From: "G3YXM" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Old Radcoms and PWs Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:29:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all. As there seems to be a fondness for nostalgia on here (yes I do know and love the EF50!) I wondered if anyone would be interested in piles of old Radcom and Practical Wireless from 1972 and thereabouts. Goodness knows why I kept them but they've got to go! Free but transport needs paying for.... Dave G3YXM, Birmingham. dave@wireless.org.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13790 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 16:17:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 16:17:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 14449 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 16:16:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 16:16:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gU25-00075C-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:03:21 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gU24-000757-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:03:20 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14gU1h-0005RH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:02:57 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <8799.200103231602@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 16:07:48 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: BPSK Modulation Variants X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF group, ON7YD's comment that BPSK "gives away" 3dB is only true for the limiting case of phase-keying data input consisting of alternating 1s and 0s, and therefore a phase transition for every bit. For real data, I reckon there is on average around 1 transition for every 2 bits, so the "loss" in mean TX power is more like 1.3dB. I suppose the real question is if this "missing" power were present, would it do anything useful at the RX end? This would depend on the type of modulation and demodulation used. As far as continuously varying phase modulation goes, my undergraduate text book makes the point that phase modulation is essentially equivalent to frequency modulation. Saying that the phase of a signal is varying relative to some reference phase is the same thing as saying the instantaneous frequency is different from the carrier frequency, since instantaneous frequency is the time derrivative of phase. What Rik is proposing is a kind of FSK - varying the phase linearly with time is the same as shifting the frequency. In the limiting case, with a 101010... bit sequence at 10bits per second being a 5Hz square wave, for the phase to change by +/-180degrees (pi radians) within a 1/10 second period, the frequency shift would need to be at least +/-10pi radians/sec, or +/-5Hz. I have not tried to analyse this in the frequency domain, but it must have a spectrum with sidebands at 5Hz intervals with a sinx/x component, not unlike that of the original un-shaped BPSK, but probably smaller. With Andy's proposed scheme, in the 101010.. limiting case, and with the raised-cosine phase modulating slope, this would be equivalent to phase modulating with a 5Hz sine wave to a deviation of +/-pi/2 radians, mf = pi/2. Inspecting the functions of FM and PM modulated waves, this would be equivalent to FM with a modulating frequency of 5Hz (and without the DC offset), and deviation of 7.8Hz. Looking at the Bessel function tables for mf = 1.5, this means the sidebands at +/- 5Hz would be up 0.7dB on the carrier, those at +/- 10Hz -6.9, at +/- 15Hz -18.5dB and so on. For the 10101010... limiting case, and ideal sine - envelope shaping, the BPSK signal is equivalent to a double sideband, supressed carrier signal modulated with a 5Hz sine wave, with two sidebands at +/- 5Hz only (see the article on PSK31 in the LF handbook). I checked this when I was building my modulator, and it was pretty close to what I actually got. I realise that these are rather crude analyses of the 3 types of modulation, and because the modulation is not in reality a uniform 101010.. string of data, other spectrum components will also be present, and the spectrum will be continuous rather than discrete sidebands. Also , the relative phase of the spectrum components is not considered. However, the other 2 methods seem to be a) different from the "ideal" BPSK, and b)apparently have more sidebands. Perhaps someone could provide a more accurate analysis, that would show whether either of these methods would be as effective for communications, would produce a satisfactory spectrum, or would require a different approach to demodulation. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11049 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 14:17:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 14:17:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 2157 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 14:17:56 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 14:17:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gSFn-0006KX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:09:23 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gSFm-0006KS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:09:22 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA144838 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:08:59 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010323151053.08afed50@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 15:10:53 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: QRS beta version (external timing) In-reply-to: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03FA@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov .uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello group, Recently there have been some requests to be able to let an external (and accurate) timing source control the PC clock while running QRS. I had a look at it and a basic 'external time control' was rather easy to implement. In version 3.06 beta 1 it is possible to connect a accurate timing source to COM port CTS pin (on a D9 connector : pin 8, on a D25 : pin 5). At this moment it must be a 1 minute clock source (maybe more posibilies later). You can download this version from : http://www.qsl.net/on7yd/QRS/qrs306b1.zip In SETUP you can click on TIME to get to the external clock menue. There you have 3 possibilies : - DISABLE : no external clocking - ABSOLUTE : the PC clock will increment 1 minute for every pulse at CTS (compared to time at the previous pulse). - ADJUSTING : a pulse at CTS will adjust the PC clock to the closest minute May sound complicated, therefore an example : 1. Before starting QRS you have to set the PC clock as accurate as you can (by hand using the default windows device for setting the clock or using software that sets the PC clock based on DCF77 or similar). 2A. If you select ABSOLUTE then QRS will take a 'reference time' at the first pulse on CTS and from then on will increase time by 1 minute for every pulse. In the time between the pulses the PC clock will run at its own pace. eg. Assume 14:25:36 is taken as reference time. At the next CTS pulse the clock will be set to 14:26:36, then to 14:27:36 etc ... 2B. If you select ADJUSTING then QRS will also take a 'reference time' at the first CTS pulse but from then on will only adjust the clock on every CTS pulse. eg. Assume 14:25:36 is taken as reference time. At the next CTS pulse QRS reads the PC clock, let's say 14:26:35 -> this will be adjusted to 14:26:36. The difference between the 2 options is that if (for whatever reason) there is a CTS pulse missed that in the ABSOLUTE mode the PC clock will be 1 minute wrong while in the ADJUSTING mode the clock will be set correct as long as the in the time between 2 CTS pulses it hasn't gone wrong more than 30 seconds in its own pace. One could use an atomic clock or GPS to generate the 60 second timing, but for the mere mortals a simple Xtal oscillator + divider train will do (keep the error less than a second over a period of several days). Keep in mind that the pulses must exactly come in a 60 second interval, but that there is no need that the pulse comes just on a full minute. Finaly : the pulse applied to CTS must be positive and have a width between 10us and 10ms. If there is sufficient feedback I am willing to continue and make more flexible external timing possibilies. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11400 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 13:52:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 13:52:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 14138 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 13:14:21 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 13:14:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gRGo-0005p8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 13:06:22 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gRGj-0005p0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 13:06:18 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA66114 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:05:51 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010323142850.2dbfe348@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:28:50 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: RE: WOLF (BPSK) modulation continuous phase modulation. In-reply-to: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03FA@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov .uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 09:52 23/03/01 -0000, you wrote: >Other tasks got in the way so never perused this much further, but the major >task putting me off was to work out a way of continuously phase modulating a >transmitter over a full 360 degree range. This looked at first sight even >more difficult than amplitude modulating - had already made a PWM modulator, >although not big enough for the Decca transmitters, published in the lastest >LF Experimenters book. Hello Andy & group, What I had in mind was a kind of digital 'smooth' phase-shifting. The 'rude' way to perform BPSK is just to send the RF (square wave) through an XOR gate, what will cause an instant 180 degrees phase shift. Let us (for simplicity) assume that we would modulate BPSK on 100kHz square wave. Further assume that the phase shift occurs exactly on the rising edge of the 100kHz signal. If there is no phase shift we have a nice 100kHz square wave (5us high / 5us low). At the moment of a phase shift you will have 1 cycle with 10us high and 5us low, we have an 'extra' 5us high level (or otherwise seen : the frequency is down to 66.7kHz for 1 cycle = 15us). A 180 degrees phase jump (at 100kHz) could be seen as a 5us 'time jump'. If we want a more smooth phase transition we can spread this 5u 'time jump' over several cycles, instead of a single 15us cycle we could have 5 cycles of each 11us (otherwise seen : the frequency would be down to 90.9kHz for 55us). If this is still too 'bumpy' we could have 50 cycles of 10.1us (frequency down to 99.01kHz for 505us) or even 500 cycles of 10.01us (frequency down to 99.9kHz for 5005us). How smooth you can make the phase transition would depend on 2 things : 1. the transition time must be relatively short compared to the duration of a bit (I believe that 5 to 10% of the time would be acceptable) 2. the smoother the transistion, the higher the reference frequency you need To explain this last : The 'base frequency' (in this example 100kHz) and the 'transition frequency' (in this case 90.9kHz or 99.01kHz ... depending on how smooth you want it to be) must be directly derived from the same source. So if you take a rather fast transition (eg. the 5 cycles of 90.9kHz) you need a source of 1MHz (divided by 10 = 100kHz, divided by 11 = 90.9kHz). But if you want a slow transition (eg. 500 cycles of 99.9kHz) you will need a source of 100MHz (divided by 1000 = 100kHz, divided by 1001 = 99.9kHz). I believe that the 2. limitation will be more stringent. Now back to 137.5kHz : A stable signal source (PLL or DDS) to to 40 or 50MHz is rather easy to make. This would give us a practical ratio of 256 (35.2MHz source for a 137.5kHz 'base frequency' and a 2 millisecond transition time. I am aware that this method will require substancial hardware, but it will be at the 'low power' end (reducing the firework) and once you have it, it can be used with any PA. And maybe there are more intelligent methods to achieve this smooth phase shifting, I wonder if we cannot put most of it into a PIC or similar ? 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29261 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 12:49:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 12:49:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 13755 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 12:08:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 12:08:07 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gQBs-0005MX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 11:57:12 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gQBr-0005MS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 11:57:12 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id LAA04983; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 11:59:36 GMT Received: (qmail 11545 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 12:47:57 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 12:47:57 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id MAA15456; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 12:34:31 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma015432; Fri, 23 Mar 01 12:34:06 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 12:02:02 +0000 Received: by frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 11:56:17 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03FE@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: WOLF - Transmit Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 11:56:21 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Where is the array pnpat[] used ? It is declared at the end of the listing you sent, but not referenced anywhere else. Not being a C programmer, it will take a bit ot time to translate the code ;-| Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: Stewart Nelson [mailto:sn@scgroup.com] > Sent: 2001-03-22 17:24 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: Re: RE: Re: WOLF - Transmit? > > > Hi Andy and all, > > Sorry that I don't have a good document on the format, but > here is the code used to generate it; I hope that it is > enough info for you to build something compatible with WOLF. > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17115 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 10:49:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 10:49:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 26884 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 10:49:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 10:49:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gOz6-0004l3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 10:39:56 +0000 Received: from rubellite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gOz5-0004ky-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 10:39:56 +0000 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust125.tnt19.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.116.132.125]) by rubellite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 440E328EA for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 10:39:13 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <001201c0b37d$d30555c0$7d8474d5@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Litz wire Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 09:40:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
To All from PA0SE
 
Radio station Kootwijk in The Netherlands is being dismantled (that is were the "PA0SE aerial insulators" came from; I still have some).
 
At the point of being scrapped now is a spool with about 188 metres silk covered litz wire with a diameter of about 8 or 9 millimetres.
It came from a former LW transmitter on 1875 m.
The litz wire can be collected free but you have to organise transport to your place yourself.
 
If you are interested please let me know as soon as possible because the Kootwijk station manager wants to get rid of it on very short notice.
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15609 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 10:01:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 10:01:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 221 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 10:00:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 10:00:59 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gOFt-0004Vo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 09:53:13 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gOFq-0004Vi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 09:53:10 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id JAA22478; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 09:55:37 GMT Received: (qmail 21824 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 10:43:59 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 10:43:59 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id KAA14939; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 10:30:33 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma014842; Fri, 23 Mar 01 10:30:01 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-3.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 09:57:54 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-3.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 09:52:03 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03FA@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: WOLF (BPSK) modulation continuous ph ase modulation. Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 09:52:11 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I modelled this, generating ET2 Coherent waveforms with gradual phase transitions and stored as .WAV files, then played back into the Coherent decoder. With a Raised Cosine phase transition slope and the ability to adjust the amount of this from practically no slope to a full envelopes worth of phase transition, decoding results looked quite encouraging - the bandwidth was reduced considerably and decoding of good signals worked 100%. Never got the opportunity to test in QRM apart from some simple tests adding to off air received noise. Other tasks got in the way so never perused this much further, but the major task putting me off was to work out a way of continuously phase modulating a transmitter over a full 360 degree range. This looked at first sight even more difficult than amplitude modulating - had already made a PWM modulator, although not big enough for the Decca transmitters, published in the lastest LF Experimenters book. Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: Rik Strobbe [mailto:rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be] > Sent: 2001-03-23 09:55 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: WOLF (BPSK) modulation > > > Hello Mike & group, > > With Mike's suggestion to cut the signal for a short time > during the phase > tranisitions the cure might be worse than the illness : > WOLF is (currently) used at 10BPS, so you would need to cut the signal > (worst case) 10 times a second for a short time (few > milliseconds). This > will create a lot of sidebands, the signal might be worse > than with 'rude > BPSK'. > > Jim's signal is remarkable clean, as could be expected from a PSK-like > signal. The 2 'disadvantages' (in my opinion) are : > - 'high power' electronics involved > - giving away 3dB (by the envelope AM), versus 'rude BPSK' > > An alternative way to get a 'clean' signal might be to have a > smooth phase > transition. Instead of a 180 degrees instant phase jump one > could have a > gradual phase change, let's say over 10 milliseconds. At > 10BPS this would > leave the signal for 90% of the time in the 'correct phase'. > Advantages would be : > - additional electronics would be at the 'low power end' > - any PA (wether linear or not) could be used without any changes > - signals would be only 0.54dB down versus 'rude BPSK' > > Depending on the amount of sidebands that is acceptable the transision > period could be changed. A shorter transisition period would > give a better > SNR, but more sidebands while a longer transistion period would give a > cleaner signal but less SNR. > > There would be different ways to implement the smooth phase > shifting, going > from the classic phase modulator to digital techniques. > > But before I start any project in that direction I would like > the opinion > of the experts, maybe I have just overseen some facts that > make my whole > suggestion worthless ... > > 73, Rik ON7YD > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9392 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 09:02:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 09:02:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 3173 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 09:02:48 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 09:02:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gNJG-00044v-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 08:52:38 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gNJA-00041F-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 08:52:32 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA229066 for ; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 09:52:05 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010323095454.2c3f177e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 09:54:54 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: WOLF (BPSK) modulation In-reply-to: <3ABA02DD.6056.F8FBF9@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Mike & group, With Mike's suggestion to cut the signal for a short time during the phase tranisitions the cure might be worse than the illness : WOLF is (currently) used at 10BPS, so you would need to cut the signal (worst case) 10 times a second for a short time (few milliseconds). This will create a lot of sidebands, the signal might be worse than with 'rude BPSK'. Jim's signal is remarkable clean, as could be expected from a PSK-like signal. The 2 'disadvantages' (in my opinion) are : - 'high power' electronics involved - giving away 3dB (by the envelope AM), versus 'rude BPSK' An alternative way to get a 'clean' signal might be to have a smooth phase transition. Instead of a 180 degrees instant phase jump one could have a gradual phase change, let's say over 10 milliseconds. At 10BPS this would leave the signal for 90% of the time in the 'correct phase'. Advantages would be : - additional electronics would be at the 'low power end' - any PA (wether linear or not) could be used without any changes - signals would be only 0.54dB down versus 'rude BPSK' Depending on the amount of sidebands that is acceptable the transision period could be changed. A shorter transisition period would give a better SNR, but more sidebands while a longer transistion period would give a cleaner signal but less SNR. There would be different ways to implement the smooth phase shifting, going from the classic phase modulator to digital techniques. But before I start any project in that direction I would like the opinion of the experts, maybe I have just overseen some facts that make my whole suggestion worthless ... 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21956 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 23:57:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 23:57:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 7645 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 23:57:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 23:57:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gElo-0000IW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:45:32 +0000 Received: from hatfield.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.39]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gEln-0000IR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:45:31 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-1-220.easynet.co.uk [195.40.206.220]) by hatfield.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id DA77B22E28A for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:45:05 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000701c0b32a$dd998cc0$dcce28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200103171435.f2HEZMq11665@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Subject: LF: Re. Mad Hatters Tea Party Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 23:49:30 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: There was an exchange of e-mails between Ko and Laurie a few days ago. > >Hi Ko. > >Your pictures are indeed very busy, do you have un-invited guests at your party? I see a lot of Loran. 73s Laurie. > > Hi Laurie. > I am not sure, but are the lines really there or are they created in the L202 preamp i am trying? > The L202 does not have a bandpass filter like the other one i use. > Watched 01:00 this morning and the lines were even worse but none was > transmitting inside of them, though the lines were very close. I felt that the pictures on Ko's website were rather noisy and that they could be improved. Most of the time there are no amateur signals in the band so there should only be background noise and Loran sidebands in the displays. I have now included some pictures, which show what the 136kHz band looks like from this QTH. Click on 'Receiving LF Signals' on the home page of the site shown below. I feel that a bandpass filter would help a lot particularly with the strong EU broadcast stations just up the band. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11816 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 20:04:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 20:04:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 3091 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 20:04:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 20:04:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gB66-0007EB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 19:50:14 +0000 Received: from fep01.swip.net ([130.244.199.129] helo=fep01-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gB65-0007E6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 19:50:13 +0000 Received: from W98 ([212.151.40.210]) by fep01-svc.swip.net (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20010322194949.BLWF22442.fep01-svc.swip.net@W98> for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 20:49:49 +0100 Message-ID: <001901c0b309$28a121a0$d22897d4@W98.swipnet.se> From: "C Andersson" To: "RSGB LF Group" Subject: LF: Auroral propagation Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 20:48:28 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: As already has been mentioned on this reflector I had a nice QSO with Ron G6RO on Monday evening. Heard his CQ call with "local" strength and could not resist to answer, even though I don't normally transmit during TV-time. I have some TVI on my own TV set and I'm not sure about my neighbour's. I'm suspicios that my TX signal is nicely distributed to the neighbours via the mains earth, which is a part of my earthing system. There are 3 houses between me and the ground connection for the mains system. >perhaps we were seeing an auroral path from SM. Maybe. I have put together some information here: http://home5.swipnet.se/~w-54761/aurora.htm 73 Christer sm6pxj From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18333 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 18:12:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 18:12:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 1116 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 18:11:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 18:11:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14g9US-0006WB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 18:07:16 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14g9UR-0006W6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 18:07:15 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14g9Tx-0000by-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 18:06:45 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <6654.200103221806@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 18:11:33 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Wolf Transmissions X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Brian, LF Group, Many thanks to Brian for the report, glad to see you are getting some positive results from the test signals. I am a little puzzled by the 0.15Hz frequency offset; to get this much error in my TX frequency would require an actual fault in the synthesiser. In addition, my frequency counter would have to be reading wrong too. These things are not very likely, but not impossible, so I will check. I don't know if this could be some sort of artefact of the decoding process -I did get peculiar frequency readings when the signal level was too high. If you run Wolf without the -l option, and the timing is all correct, the value in the pm: column will increase from one row of results to the next. I will take a break from sending the beacon sigs tonight, to catch up on a bit of sleep. I will start again on Friday night. No doubt this will be the cue for superb transatlantic propagation conditions, lasting one night only. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20383 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 17:30:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 17:30:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 10159 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 17:30:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 17:30:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14g8nb-0006Hi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 17:22:59 +0000 Received: from cobalt4.source.net ([206.100.10.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14g8na-0006Hd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 17:22:58 +0000 Received: from w2ksn (windev1.scgroup.com [192.55.122.104]) by cobalt4.source.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA20271 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:22:34 -0800 Message-ID: <004a01c0b2f4$da2d7370$687a37c0@w2ksn> From: "Stewart Nelson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03F4@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> Subject: LF: Re: RE: Re: WOLF - Transmit? Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 09:23:41 -0800 Organization: SC Group MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Andy and all, Sorry that I don't have a good document on the format, but here is the code used to generate it; I hope that it is enough info for you to build something compatible with WOLF. You can run WOLF in the "EEPROM" mode to see if a given message encoding matches your software. If you have trouble, let me know and I'll try to help. Transmission involves radix-40 encode, convolutional encode, interleave, and reference bit insertion. #define MSGLEN 15 /* source message len in chars */ #define MSGLENW 5 /* radix 40 message len in 16-bit words */ #define WLEN 16 /* bits in 3-character coded group */ #define MSGLENB 80 /* message length in bits */ #define RRATE 6 /* reciprocal of code rate */ /* Radix-40 encoder */ /* Future versions may use codes >=64000 for control functions, CRC, etc. */ /* in: ASCII string, up to 15 chars out: array of 16 bit words, radix-40 encoded */ void encr40(char *in, ushort out[]) { int ch, fill, val, i; fill = 0; val = 0; for (i = 0; i < MSGLEN; ++i) { if (fill) ch = 0; else if (!(ch = *in++)) fill = 1; else if (ch >= 'A' && ch <= 'Z') ch = ch - 'A' + 1; else if (ch >= 'a' && ch <= 'z') ch = ch - 'a' + 1; else if (ch >= '0' && ch <= '9') ch = ch - '0' + 27; else if (ch == ' ') ch = 0; else if (ch == '.') ch = 37; else if (ch == '/') ch = 38; else ch = 39; val = val * 40 + ch; if (i % 3 == 2) { *out++ = val; val = 0; } } } /* These values are bit-reversed from those in the NASA paper because the register shifts left */ int cnvcod[] = {042631, 047245, 073363, 056507, 077267, 064537}; /* tail-biting encoder in: array of radix-40 encoded 16 bit words out: baseband signal in xmit order, array of chars */ void enccnv(ushort in[], char out[]) { int sr, i, j, k, b, t; sr = in[MSGLENW-1]; /* init sr to last 15 bits */ for (i = 0; i < MSGLENW; ++i) { for (j = 0; j < WLEN; ++j) { sr = (sr << 1) | (in[i] >> (15-j)) & 1; for (k = 0; k < RRATE; ++k) { b = 0; for (t = sr & cnvcod[k]; t; t &= t-1) b ^= 1; /* store */ #if INTLV out[k*MSGLENB + (j&7)*10 + ((j&8)>>3) + i*2] = b; #else out[k*MSGLENB + j + i*WLEN] = b; #endif } } } } char pnpat[] = { 0,0,1,1,1,1,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,1,0,0,0,0,1,1,0,1,0,1,1,0,0,1,0,1,0,0,1,0,0,0,1,0,0,1, 1,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,1,1,0,0,0,1,0,1,1,0,0,0,1,0,1,1,1,1,0,1,0,1,1, 1,1,0,0,1,0,0,0,1,0,0,1,1,1,0,1,0,1,0,0,0,1,0,1,1,0,0,0,1,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,1,0,1,0, 1,0,1,1,0,0,0,0,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,0,0,1,0,1,1,1,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,0,1,1,1,0,0,1, 1,0,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,1,0,1,0,1,0,0,1,0,0,0,1,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,0,0,0,1,1, 0,0,1,0,1,0,1,1,1,1,0,1,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,0,1,1,1,1,1,1,0,1,1,0,0,1,1,1, 1,1,0,1,0,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,0,1,0,0,0,1,0,1,0,1,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0,0, 1,1,1,1,1,1,0,1,0,1,1,0,0,1,0,0,1,1,0,1,0,1,1,0,1,1,1,0,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,1,1,1,1,0, 1,1,0,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,0,0,1,1,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,0,1,0,0,0,0,0,0,1,0,0,1, 0,1,0,0,0,1,1,0,0,1,0,1,0,1,0,0,1,1,0,1,1,1,0,0,1,1,1,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,0,1,1,0,1,0, 1,0,0,1,1,1,0,0,0,0,0,1,0,0,1,0,1,0,0,0,0,1,1,0,0,0,0,1,1,0,1,0,1,1,1,0,1,0,1,1, 1,0,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,0,0,0,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,1,1,1,1,1,0,1,0,0,1,0,0,1,0,1,0,0,0,1,1,1, }; Notes: The interleave function is far from optimum but a lot better than nothing. The PN pattern was chosen literally at random, selecting for low autocorrelation and for low autocorrelation with short substrings, but is also far from optimum. I would greatly appreciate it if you find a good replacement pattern. Hope this is useful. 73, Stewart KK7KA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Talbot Andrew" To: Sent: Thursday, March 22, 2001 7:02 AM Subject: LF: RE: Re: WOLF - Transmit? > I would like add Wolf coding to my PIC based BPSK generator. > Stuart, can you reveal the exact coding details, I can't find them in > any of the documentation on the Web. Just a comment that the mesage > data is interleaved (?) with a PN Sequence to assist clock recovery and > timing. > > Andy G4JNT From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27938 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 16:34:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 16:34:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 14462 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 16:33:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 16:33:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14g7pF-0005n3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:20:37 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14g7pD-0005mw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:20:36 +0000 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44]) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14g7oV-0005Gh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:19:51 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <28702.200103221619@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 16:24:40 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: WOLF Transmit X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Mike, LF Group, Mine is certainly not the only way of generating a BPSK signal, and it is certainly true from experience that little trouble results from key clicks on 136k, in spite of the fact that a lot of TXs on the band have less than ideal keying. But in my own position, being in an area relatively densely populated with LF stations, having a high ERP compared to most, and transmitting beacon signals over extended periods means I feel obliged to try and produce as clean a signal as possible. Actually, key clicks are never likely to be a huge issue on LF; when compared to HF standards, even a full 1W ERP is a sub-QRP signal, and the higher noise level will tend to swamp clicks from all but the most local stations anyway. Both "WOLF" and (usually) "Coherent" BPSK use a 10 bits/second rate; so the number of phase transitions per second will be similar to the number of on-off transitions of a 12wpm CW signal. Cutting the drive before a phase transition would eliminate the click due to the phase change, but would add 2 more, when the drive was switched off and then back on again, so little would be gained. Having "redundant" envelope modulation when no phase transition occurs would actually increase the sideband levels - the explanation I gave was something of an over-simplification. It would still be neccessary to synchronise the amplitude modulation with the phase modulation somehow, so little saving in complexity would be acheived. A perfectly good way of generating BPSK would be to first low- pass filter the logic level signal, and then mix it with the carrier in a linear balanced mixer (rather than an ex-or gate). A linear PA would be required. This would be a good option if you do have a linear, but do not have an SSB exciter that will give output on 136k. To put the complexity into perspective, my prototype modulator is built on 2 100 x 160mm prototyping boards, plus a heatsink assembly carrying the MOSFETs. Implementing the waveform generator part on a PIC - type microcontroller would roughly halve the number of components and interconnections. If a PCB were designed, the small-signal parts of the circuit would be no more difficult to build than, say, a fairly elaborate audio filter kit. The MOSFET pass element obviously needs to be quite big to handle the power. The Heatsink assembly could be simplified by using a really big MOSFET power module instead of 8 small ones, but I doubt if this would be cost-effective. cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12005 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 15:25:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 15:25:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 80 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 15:25:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 15:25:19 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14g6d7-0005GJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:04:01 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14g6d6-0005GE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:04:00 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id PAA22570; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:06:26 GMT Received: (qmail 26196 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 15:54:51 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 15:54:51 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id PAA17826; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:41:29 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma017406; Thu, 22 Mar 01 15:40:14 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-3.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:08:02 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-3.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:02:06 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03F4@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re: WOLF - Transmit? Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 15:02:19 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I would like add Wolf coding to my PIC based BPSK generator. Stuart, can you reveal the exact coding details, I can't find them in any of the documentation on the Web. Just a comment that the mesage data is interleaved (?) with a PN Sequence to assist clock recovery and timing. Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: Stewart Nelson [mailto:sn@scgroup.com] > Sent: 2001-03-22 07:51 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: Re: WOLF - Transmit? > > > Hi Mike and all, > > Bill de Carle VE2IQ has added WOLF mode to his KEYER package. > Can upload to keyer or provide data for an EPROM, etc. > Download from Bill's web page at > http://cafe.rapidus.net/bill1/bbs.htm . > > 73,> -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13632 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 14:38:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 14:38:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 2775 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 14:37:43 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 14:37:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14g5zp-00051A-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:23:25 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rhun.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.26]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14g5zn-000513-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:23:24 +0000 Received: from ea.esoterica.pt (ea.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.204]) by rhun.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f2MEMuC10969 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:22:56 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from slave2 (por059.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.59]) by ea.esoterica.pt (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA20636 for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:22:55 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010322142117.0083bc10@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:21:17 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: LF: Wolf at the door or I am still missing something MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Gentlemen, After careful calibration of the sampling rate using HP signal generator and WWV on 5MHz AM which gave the same value, also checking the stability and absolute frequency accuracy of the receiver using 60 and 198KHz with 800Hz offset, (the calibration files are available), nothing but gibberish was seen on trial wolf decodes. Eventually as a last deperate effort I copied the first part of the high power transmission after 2400 yesterday into the wolf directory and using the verbose mode I found I still had to change the -f parameter. Below is the result. C:\Wolf>wolf -q wolfr5a.wav -f 800.146 -t .2 -r 8018.543 -l WOLF version 0.52 t: 24 f: 0.001 a:-1.2 dp: 79.9 ci: 9 cj: 44 CQ M0BMU M0BMU - t: 48 f: 0.012 a: 1.2 dp: 85.7 ci:13 cj: 62 80B97/C1HQS7XEL ? t: 96 f: 0.181 a: 1.3 dp: 87.4 ci: 8 cj: 33 R26WLGILX*MUWQ9 - t: 192 f: 0.000 pm: 91 jm:872 CQ M0BMU M0BMU - t: 288 f: 0.000 pm: 128 jm:872 CQ M0BMU M0BMU - t: 384 f: 0.000 pm: 123 jm:872 CQ M0BMU M0BMU - t: 480 f: 0.000 pm: 135 jm:872 CQ M0BMU M0BMU - t: 576 f: 0.000 pm: 126 jm:872 CQ M0BMU M0BMU - t: 672 f: 0.000 pm: 130 jm:872 CQ M0BMU M0BMU - t: 768 f: 0.000 pm: 138 jm:872 CQ M0BMU M0BMU - t: 864 f: 0.000 pm: 158 jm:872 CQ M0BMU M0BMU - t: 960 f: 0.000 pm: 146 jm:872 CQ M0BMU M0BMU - t:1056 f: 0.000 pm: 177 jm:872 CQ M0BMU M0BMU - t:1152 f: 0.000 pm: 150 jm:872 CQ M0BMU M0BMU - t:1248 f: 0.000 pm: 134 jm:872 CQ M0BMU M0BMU - t:1344 f: 0.000 pm: 158 jm:872 CQ M0BMU M0BMU - t:1440 f: 0.000 pm: 126 jm:872 CQ M0BMU M0BMU - t:1536 f: 0.010 pm: 27 jm:872 CQ M0BMU M0BMU - t:1632 f: 0.000 pm: 160 jm:872 CQ M0BMU M0BMU - But there is still something missing. My intuition alarm bells are jangling. How this could have crossed the Atlantic site unseen is totally beyond me. I have also broken the law. Thank you to Jim, and to all the programme writers who have made this possible. 73, Brian 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22267 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 14:18:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 14:18:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 2264 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 14:17:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 14:17:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14g5eP-0004pL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:01:17 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14g5eN-0004pE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 14:01:16 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 13:49:20 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 13:49:17 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: WOLF - transmit Message-ID: <3ABA02DD.6056.F8FBF9@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks, Jim, for the useful description of your transmit system for WOLF. Being a very lazy constructor, I am trying to find a simpler solution. Am I right in saying that my Decca Tx does not cause you a problem when I key it with normal CW? If that is the case - I certainly don't get any clicks from you - and bearing in mind that I key the 'VFO' output, why not simply cut the drive during the critical transition period? Alternatively, why go to the trouble of only reducing the PSU volts only when there is a transition? Why not reduce it every time there =could= be a transition, ie once every second (I think I am right in saying the bit rate is one bps?). This would mean that the whole thing could be driven by an oscillator. Of course it would need to be synched to the keyer, but isn't that easier than what you are using? And what about using a linear amplifier, eg BK Electronics, and simply putting an LPF on the output of the XOR gate modulator used by the Lowfers? This would be a really easy answer, at least up to a few hundred watts, wouldn't it? I mean no criticism of your circuitry - it's just that I don't fancy building something that complex. Have I missed something terribly important? I remain fascinated but still rather baffled, and would appreciate your thoughts, and those of anyone else. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22505 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 08:07:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 08:07:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 24167 invoked from network); 22 Mar 2001 08:07:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 22 Mar 2001 08:07:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fzr2-0002KI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 07:49:56 +0000 Received: from cobalt4.source.net ([206.100.10.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fzqy-0002KD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 07:49:52 +0000 Received: from w2ksn (windev1.scgroup.com [192.55.122.104]) by cobalt4.source.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA23885 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 23:49:25 -0800 Message-ID: <006d01c0b2a4$c7e099e0$687a37c0@w2ksn> From: "Stewart Nelson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3AB89EE8.130.AB12B1@localhost> Subject: LF: Re: WOLF - Transmit? Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 23:50:35 -0800 Organization: SC Group MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Mike and all, Bill de Carle VE2IQ has added WOLF mode to his KEYER package. Can upload to keyer or provide data for an EPROM, etc. Download from Bill's web page at http://cafe.rapidus.net/bill1/bbs.htm . 73, Stewart KK7KA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Dennison" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 4:30 AM Subject: LF: WOLF - Transmit? > Ok, so having cracked the receive side, how do I transmit WOLF? > > As I understand it there are three methods: > > 1 - Audio from the soundcard is fed into a 136kHz SSB transmitter, including > of course an HF SSB Tx with a transverter. Presumably the transmission is > independent of which sideband is selected. > > 2 - Audio from the soundcard can be combined with the 'VFO' in an XOR gate > and fed into an amplifier - presumably linear. This looks useful to me as I have > a 200W linear amp. > > 3 - The M0BMU method that allows the use of a non-linear Class D Tx. How > and why does this work? > > All three methods are potentially simple, but are made complex by the need for > very careful bandwidth tailoring to keep the transmission to about 20Hz wide. > > Have I got any of this wrong? Is there anything published on the subject? > What is in use? > > I understand that some Lowfers have used WOLF, but I suspect that > bandwidth has not been an issue because of the total width of the allocation > and the low ERP. I believe that Larry, VA3LK, has transmitted WOLF, but > again perhaps the bandwidth was not a problem. Jim, will you publish your > circuits? Or perhaps they are rig specific? > > It appears relatively easy to get going on receive but practical transmit has an > information black hole. > > Advice, please. > > > > Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) > http://www.lf.thersgb.net > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2434 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 22:06:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 22:06:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 25607 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 22:06:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 22:06:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fqfc-0006kN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 22:01:32 +0000 Received: from antiochus-fe0.ultra.net ([146.115.8.188]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fqfb-0006kI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 22:01:31 +0000 Received: from comrex (207-172-65-177.s177.apx2.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.65.177]) by antiochus-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n20340/mtc.v2) with SMTP id QAA04785 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 16:59:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001001c0b253$2c726ca0$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5186.200103191301@gemini> Subject: LF: Sound card sample rate cal for WOLF Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 17:05:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a quick experiment this morning, I recorded 15 minutes of LORAN-C with my receiver in AM mode. The recording was done with my normal WOLF setup, 8000 Hz sampling, 16 bit. My "local" LORAN-C station has a 9960 microsecond repetition rate, which is 100.4016 Hz. I then set WOLF to measure the 8th harmonic of that rate, as follows: wolf -f 803.21285 -q (filename.wav) -m 60 WOLF then nicely gave me a list of frequency offsets measured every 60 seconds. In my case, the offset was -0.197 Hz, which yielded 8001.96 Hz for the sampling rate. This agrees very closely with measurements made with an accurate 1 kHz tone. The calculation has been described earlier on this list: 8000(803.21285 / (803.21285 - 0.197)) = 8001.96 This method relieves the need for an accurate tone source. It also uses your normal WOLF recording and crunching software and sampling rate. You do need to know a repetition rate for a LORAN-C signal in your receiver's output. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18875 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 21:17:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 21:17:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 20448 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 21:17:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 21:17:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fpuu-0006Pe-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 21:13:16 +0000 Received: from cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fpus-0006PZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 21:13:14 +0000 Received: from modem-110.angband.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.111.110] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14fpuV-0003Jw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 21:12:52 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01c0b24b$a63ed1c0$6e6f883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. LF Tests Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 21:11:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi John,
Yes I was on last night but NASA said that there was a geomagnetic storm on monday and that a CME is expected on 22/23 March. So I guess conditions will be very disturbed for a while. I will transmit again tonight from about 2230utc and will revert to 30sec dots to see if this helps. 73s Laurie. 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5295 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 20:48:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 20:48:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 4939 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 20:47:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 20:47:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fpS6-0006CE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 20:43:30 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fpS5-0006C9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 20:43:30 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.6.66]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 15:46:23 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AB979BC.4681ED3@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 20:04:15 -0800 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: lf tests last night Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all , I had bad 60 Hz noise. early on . I thought G3AQC was visible at 2130Z. Noise cleared up aruond 0330 but never saw any signals . Laurie , were you transmitting? I will look again tonight. 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7051 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 20:02:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 20:02:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 26365 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 20:02:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 20:02:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14foip-0005sq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 19:56:43 +0000 Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14foio-0005sl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 19:56:42 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.181.6]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010321195545.WMQI18504007.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Thu, 22 Mar 2001 07:55:45 +1200 Message-ID: <002701c0b240$f5671b00$06b51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3AB72FCB.11916.3A0834@localhost> <3.0.1.16.20010321114339.21ffe7b2@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: LF: Re: exact audio reference Date: Thu, 22 Mar 2001 07:55:12 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik and other readers, > For those who want to calibrate the soundcard there is also a simple > hardware solution : > Take a CMOS4060 (14-stage divider with internal oscillator) and let it run > with a xtal in the 8-12MHz range. At the end of the divider chain (pin 3) > you will get the xtal frequency divided by 16384 (will be in the 500-700Hz > range). I have had such an accessory for a few years, delivering an output of 1000 Hz. The squarewave output has much harmonic content, but it can be filtered. I also have a distortion measuring instrument that shows that most audio oscillators have "rude" harmonic content, but my home brew unit with suitable filtering gives about 70 dB of purity to the 1000 Hz fundamental. So it is very good for both frequency accuracy, and purity. The 1000 Hz tone, to millihertz accuracy, is very handy for checking the dial accuracy of amateur transceivers, in SSB mode. With a frequency counter on the output, the sideband should be either +1000 Hz for USB, or -1000 Hz for LSB, and any error is in the transceiver RF department. 1000 Hz is the best frequency for least mental arithmetic by the operator ;o) I have more recently made considerable use of the accessory for calibrating PC sound cards. 72, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29313 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 18:55:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 18:55:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 6263 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 18:55:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 18:55:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fnfu-0005Og-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:49:38 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fnft-0005Ob-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:49:37 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14fnfW-0003VJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:49:14 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <28294.200103211849@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:54:03 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Wolf Tonight X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF group, Will run some more WOLF signals tonight at the 30mW ERP level on 137.5000kHz, starting around 2000utc. Also will be running 1W ERP around 0000 onwards. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22337 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 18:09:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 18:09:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 27508 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 18:08:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 18:08:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fmwU-00053j-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:02:42 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout02.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.17]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fmwT-00053d-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:02:41 +0000 Received: from fwd05.sul.t-online.com by mailout02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14fmw2-0007lS-02; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 19:02:14 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.157.50.31]) by fwd05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14fmvs-1iUsMaC; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 19:02:04 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <9881.200103201602@gemini> Subject: Re: LF: Wolf Tests X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 19:02:04 +0100 Message-ID: <14fmvs-1iUsMaC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz schrieb: > > The obvious problem is how to determine the soundcard error, if > you don't have a accurate audio frequency source. I used the > reference output of my synthesiser divided doown to 1kHz (and > filtered; a fairly clean sine wave seemed to be neccessary to avoid > aliasing problems with the soundcard). You could use the RX audio > out, but only if you knew what the RX frequency error was to within > a small fraction of a Hz. > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU Hi Jim and all, audio qrg source out of ur old PC does it too. take Rik`s QRS-progr, switch setup/sound/dfcw/enable/fill in the qrg u want in both dash- and dot-window the same qrg. hardware: take the speaker output (kill the speaker as Rik suggested), form the needle-waves into sinus-waves (I took out of my junk-box a pot-core 330mH, 1,8mikroF and 100nF for c1 and c2 of a Pi-Filter for transforming 10ohm to abt 6kohm)and measure the qrg. Taking 1000Hz out of my junk-pc (486/66Mhz with the motherboard crystal tempcompensated)in the above described manner the counter shows 1000.0706Hz to 1000.1804Hz constance over 4 hours. regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18635 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 18:08:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 18:08:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 27601 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 18:08:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 18:08:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fmwV-00053p-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:02:43 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout02.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.17]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fmwU-00053f-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:02:42 +0000 Received: from fwd05.sul.t-online.com by mailout02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14fmw3-0007lS-02; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 19:02:15 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.157.50.31]) by fwd05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14fmvt-1iUsMcC; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 19:02:05 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <72.8cd73c8.27e8f609@aol.com> Subject: Re: LF: DFCW X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 19:02:05 +0100 Message-ID: <14fmvt-1iUsMcC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: DL4YHF@aol.com schrieb: > I once implemented such "time marker lines" in Spectrum Lab (configurable > from 1 sec per line to several minutes) but that feature seems to be hidden > too deep in the configuration dialog hi. ................. > 73's Wolf. Hi Wolf, the Spectrum Lab here has the time marker lines once and for all switched on, hi. rgds Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14345 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 18:08:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 18:08:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 26962 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 18:08:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 18:08:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fmwd-00053w-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:02:51 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout02.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.17]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fmwc-00053r-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:02:50 +0000 Received: from fwd05.sul.t-online.com by mailout02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14fmw3-0007lS-00; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 19:02:15 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.157.50.31]) by fwd05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14fmvs-1iUsMbC; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 19:02:04 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <20010320.212419.-712643.8.riese-k3djc@juno.com> Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: DFCW X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 19:02:04 +0100 Message-ID: <14fmvs-1iUsMbC@fwd05.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: BOB RIESE schrieb: > What the heck is a mudball/ > John VE1ZJ > > > That would be the 3rd rock > from the sun > > Bob There are mudbloods es muggles on that rock (harry potter) Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20284 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 18:07:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 18:07:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 16654 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 18:07:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 18:07:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fmun-00052P-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:00:57 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fmul-00052K-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:00:55 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14fmuL-0002k6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:00:29 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <25537.200103211800@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:05:19 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: BPSK Modulator details X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Mike, LF group,

I am in the process of putting together some info about my BPSK modulator for the Decca class D PA - it will take a little time to collate all the details from my meticulously cross-referenced notebook (ahem..), but here is some general information about the method I am using.

The BPSK signal can be generated by exclusive-ORing an AF or RF carrier with the binary keying data. this produces an output whose phase is unchanged when the data value is zero, but shifted by 180 degrees (ie. inverted) when the data is 1. This signal can be amplified by any linear or non-linear amplifier, and is a perfectly OK signal as far as demodulating goes, but it also generates sidebands analogous to key-clicks from a CW TX. In fact, for the same transmit PEP, the clicks generated by BPSK will be 6dB stronger than an on-off CW signal. So obviously, if you are trying to generate 1W ERP it isn't really on, although you can get away with it for a QRP transmitter.

The remedy is similar to that used for CW: the output is gently reduced to zero before the phase change occurs, then gently increased to it's full value again after, in other words amplitude modulation is applied to the BPSK signal, as well as phase modulation. It turns out the ideal amplitude envelope is like a full- wave rectified sine wave - see the description of PSK31 in the LF handbook, which is basically the same.

There are two main ways of generating this signal in practice - the most popular is to synthesise the waveform directly using a DSP algorithm and a digital to analogue converter, eg. soundcard plus software. However, most DSP DACs are limited to audio frequency outputs, so the signal must be mixed up to RF, and also amplified in a linear PA so the modulation envelope does not get distorted. However, If you have an HF rig with LF output, and a QRO linear PA, this is the easiest route to a BPSK capability.

I didn't have, so...

The other method is to apply the phase modulated signal direct to the PA, and simultaneously amplitude modulate the PA to get the required envelope. A class D PA is well suited to this due to the linear relation between supply voltage and RF output amplitude - what is required is to replace the normal DC supply with the full- wave rectified sine waveform which follows the phase transitions.

The advantages of this are:
-Efficiency can be relatively high compared to a linear
-No frequency conversion means few spurious outputs, and minimal frequency errors.
-Simplified digital system required.

In my present system, the 136kHz carrier is generated by a synthesiser, and phase keyed using a simple ex-or gate. The envelope modulating waveform is generated from the phase keying signal. The envelope-shaping part is built using 4000 series logic and some analogue bits. It is a prime candidate for implementation using a PIC with a D/A, but I haven't got a programmer, hence the hard wired circuit. It is synchronously clocked at 256 x the bit rate by a 555 timer. The incoming phase signal is appied to a transition detector. When a transition occurs, an 8-bit counter is reset, which clocks through all it's states and then stops. The 4 MSBs are used as the addresses for a 16 input analogue MUX. The MUX inputs are connected to taps on a sine weighted potential divider fed with a DC reference voltage, producing a stepped approximation to the modulation envelope, which is low pass filtered to smooth it out. This then goes to the power stage of the modulator. The "middle" count of the counter is decoded and used to clock the phase data through a D flip-flop to get a delayed phase output, which is what is actually fed into the ex-or phase modulator, to keep it in step with the modulation envelope. The reference voltage can also be keyed through another LPF t o get a nice textbook CW keying waveform.

The high power modulator part is physically the biggest bit.
I started off wanting to build a PWM modulator, but it ended up
being linear - this sounds like a thoroughly bad idea, massive heatsinks and so on, but the power dissipation did not turn out as bad as you might think. It evolved like this:

With a PWM, the output tends to be quite spiky due to non - ideal
filter components, and the amount of filtering you can apply is limited - very big filter capacitors limit the slew rate of the output in the troughs of the modulation, multi-section filters introduce other problems, especially if you want to use feedback to improve regulation, reduce mains ripple etc. The spikes will produce IM products in the PA output, which Murphy's law dictates will be at the right frequency to cause maximum trouble. One way round this would be to clock the PW M at the carrier frequency (or better, 2x), but then you end up with something quite big and complex due to the high frequency, with higher switching losses to boot, which defeats the object.

So I looked again at using a linear circuit. If you keep the input-
output voltage differential to a minimum while transmitting a continuous carrier, the power dissipation is minimised. Since you don't really need a perfectly constant output provided it is reasonably ripple free and so on, the modulator output can be made to track variations of the input voltage, and maintain a roughly constant, small, differential. I did this by using a filtered sample of the raw input DC as the reference voltage for the envelope waveform circuit described above.

When sending CW at full power, the output to the Decca PA is 60V max, 21.4A, and the differential 5V. Power dissipation is 107W. During the phase transitions of BPSK, power dissipation is higher, but in fact wit h a sinusoidal envelope, average dissipation works out to 243W for phase transitions on every bit, or 175W for a phase transition every two bits, which I reckon is about average. The power dissipated is therefore similar to a 300 - 400W linear, which is quite managable. I think the overall TX efficiency DC input - > TX out is near 75 - 80% still, so not too bad. With a PWM modulator, there would still be some dissipation and you would be lucky to get 90% overall efficiency, so overall there is not a huge difference between the two approaches - less than 1dB in signal terms. The pass element uses 8 x STW34NB20 Mosfets, which is a bit oversized, but was done in case I felt like increasing output in the future. 5 or 6 would do. The linear design makes it very easy to include foldback current limiting and so on. Each MOSFET is driven by a seperate op-amp to ensure even current sharing, and individual current limiting for each device. Overall, the circuit maintain s a fraction of the output voltage equal to the instantaneous amplitude of modulation waveform - in other words, it is a big feedback amplifier. This also serves the function of removing mains ripple from the PA supply

The phase keying signal can be any logic level signal - for "Coherent", it uses the signal on one pin on the PC RS232 port provided for the purpose. For WOLF, I built a dedicated EPROM keyer, very similar to the Lowfer designs. This enables me to use the reference output of the synthesiser, divided down to 10Hz, to provide very accurate timing for the BPSK signal. The synthesiser uses a Racal 9442 OCXO reference, stable to within 1 part in 10^7, which it seems to manage easily. So you just dial in the frequency, and there is no messing around with frequency calibration for soundcards, HF rigs etc., thank goodness!

The complete system is fully working with CW, QRSS and BPSK, but not yet finished. It is compatible with existing softwar e for these modes. It should be flexible enough to use with other modulation methods, should these look promising. I think the results so far show that superior results can be acheived compared to a soundcard/SSB exciter/linear PA TX, althought there is obviously a lot more work involved. The same techniques could be applied to any class D TX. One thing I will do when I get the chance and the bits is to replace the current PSU with a variac/transformer/rectifier arrangement. I will get some legible circuit diagrams together when I get time; I am a bit pressed at the moment.

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14428 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 17:47:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 17:47:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 23068 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 17:47:02 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 17:47:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fmbh-0004vf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 17:41:13 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ns1.swh.sk ([192.108.125.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fmbg-0004va-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 17:41:12 +0000 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes [139.24.136.129]) by ns1.swh.sk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA30538 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:40:44 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id SAA25577 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:40:41 +0100 (MET) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:40:39 +0100 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E0225864F@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: DL/OM2TW QRV... Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 18:40:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi LF-ers... I have a trip to the CeBit in Hannover for next 5 days. Saturday morning I'll be with Geri DK8KW in his QTH and I'll be probably QRV on 136kHz (DL/OM2TW). Hope to see you on LF. Best regards to all... 73 de Rich OM2TW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29241 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 14:03:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 14:03:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 13542 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 14:03:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 14:03:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fj7c-0003Pr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:57:56 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp6vepub.gte.net ([206.46.170.27] helo=smtp6ve.mailsrvcs.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fj7b-0003Pm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:57:55 +0000 Received: from ieee.org (client-151-200-111-197.bellatlantic.net [151.200.111.197]) by smtp6ve.mailsrvcs.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA3850758; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 14:00:23 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AB8B0AC.1C74A38E@ieee.org> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:46:20 -0500 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: test Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Is this reflector still working? Andre' N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1511 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 13:08:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 13:08:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 9677 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 13:08:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 13:08:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fiDw-0002xF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:00:24 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fiDv-0002wk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:00:23 +0000 Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.COM (1.0.0) with ESMTP id MAA88194 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:43:11 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (dyn9-87-117-228.italy.ibm.com [9.87.117.228]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id MAA282750 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:59:29 GMT Message-ID: <3AB8A599.AEBF8A6F@usa.net> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:59:06 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: RE PICs and DDS etc. References: <3.0.1.16.20010321131726.312fb70e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik Strobbe wrote: > To avoid panic amongst QRS users : the next version will compensate for the > changing value of light speed when calculating the length of a dot ;-) > > Rik > You come second, Rik... Argo has already a builtin function that takes into consideration the age of the universe, the local mass distribution (to cope with General Relativity induced effects) and the recent Superstring theory, to adjust the sampling rate correction when you do a Calibrate... :-) 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5846 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 12:47:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 12:47:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 14649 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 12:47:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 12:47:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fhwQ-0002oE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:42:18 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fhwO-0002o9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:42:16 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id MAA03157; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:44:39 GMT Received: (qmail 25950 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 13:33:09 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 13:33:09 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id NAA15628; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:19:53 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma015610; Wed, 21 Mar 01 13:19:25 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:47:01 +0000 Received: by frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:41:21 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03EE@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re. Lf DFCW Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:41:22 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
I doubt if 1s pulses could be extracted from those.  The reason they are so cheap is that all the electronics is on one custom chip driving the LCD, with no extra connections accessible.  
 
Exactly the same argument applies to some handheld GPS receivers, the 1pps output is availalbe from the more expensive OEM modules such as the GPS25, but not from the £60 hand held devices.
 
However, MSF clock receiver kits used to be availabe from some of the kit suppliers.  That would be a better route to getting UTC pulses.  They will only be accurate to a few milliseconds though as the delay through tuned circuits and IF filters, as well as the flight time from Rugby, cannot be taken into account in the same way as GPS can.
 
Also, if you have a decent ovenned crystal oscillator capable of even 0.1ppm, that will give a quite accurate clock, good for a about 3 seconds per year.   Most TCXOs can probably manage that sort of accuracy if kept indoors at a reasonably constant temperature.
 
Andy  G4JNT
 
-----Original Message-----
From: Laurie Mayhead [mailto:laurie@g3aqc.freeserve.co.uk]
Sent: 2001-03-21 11:51
To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org
Subject: LF: Re. Lf DFCW

Hello All,
Rik in a recent posting mentioned the timing inaccuracies of PC clock cards.Now I may be getting out of my depth here!but MSF Rugby puts out a time signal accurate to 1pt in a million,with long term correction to take care of drift.Surely other countries have similar systems(WWV for example.So why cant we use a cheap clock module £20 in the UK extract 1sec pulses to sync our QRSS and ARGO systems? Is this too naive?. I would like eventually to be able to use the equivalent of 10secs dots in order to make DX contacts a more realistic possibility. 73s Laurie.


--
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is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s).
For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution,
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 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18668 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 12:37:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 12:37:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 16174 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 12:37:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 12:37:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fhmQ-0002hC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:31:58 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fhmO-0002h5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:31:57 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:30:34 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:30:32 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: WOLF - Transmit? Message-ID: <3AB89EE8.130.AB12B1@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Ok, so having cracked the receive side, how do I transmit WOLF? As I understand it there are three methods: 1 - Audio from the soundcard is fed into a 136kHz SSB transmitter, including of course an HF SSB Tx with a transverter. Presumably the transmission is independent of which sideband is selected. 2 - Audio from the soundcard can be combined with the 'VFO' in an XOR gate and fed into an amplifier - presumably linear. This looks useful to me as I have a 200W linear amp. 3 - The M0BMU method that allows the use of a non-linear Class D Tx. How and why does this work? All three methods are potentially simple, but are made complex by the need for very careful bandwidth tailoring to keep the transmission to about 20Hz wide. Have I got any of this wrong? Is there anything published on the subject? What is in use? I understand that some Lowfers have used WOLF, but I suspect that bandwidth has not been an issue because of the total width of the allocation and the low ERP. I believe that Larry, VA3LK, has transmitted WOLF, but again perhaps the bandwidth was not a problem. Jim, will you publish your circuits? Or perhaps they are rig specific? It appears relatively easy to get going on receive but practical transmit has an information black hole. Advice, please. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16621 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 12:36:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 12:36:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 5844 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 12:36:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 12:36:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fhht-0002fy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:27:17 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fhhs-0002ft-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:27:16 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14fhhW-0001j0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:26:54 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <27356.200103211226@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:31:44 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Soundcard calibration X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF group, Rik's method of producing an accurate audio tone for calibrating the soundcard is very similar to what I am doing, and I can confirm this gives an accurate and unambiguous result. I did have some problems, however - the logic level square wave (in my case 1kHz) contains many harmonics, and I found that my soundcard did not have a very good anti-aliasing filter. The result of this was that many spurious frequency components were present in the output data, which could confuse the calibration program. I overcame this by adding a simple filter - 10k in series with the divider logic output, connected to a parallel - tuned circuit consisting of a 100mH inductance in parallel with 220n + 22n capacitors. This made the output a fairly clean sine wave. You may have to fiddle with the capacitors to peak up the output, or for different audio frequencies. If you don't want to build a calibrator, there are a couple of ways of using a receiver as a calibrated audio source. If the reference oscillator output in the RX is reasonably accessible, it can be coupled with a capacitive probe wire to the RX input. If the RX is tuned to the reference frequency, the audio output will then be the nominal value within the tolerance of the reference; errors in RX tuning due to the reference will cancel out. This should work well with an RX like the RA1792, where it is easy to get at the reference output. If the reference is not available, the frequency offset can be eliminated by a differential method; Tune the RX to a stable carrier, so as to produce a fairly high frequency audio output - I used 1.3kHz. Record several minutes at 8k samples/sec, and measure the exact frequency using the Wolf -m option. Re-tune the RX on the same carrier to produce a low frequency audio output - I used 300Hz. Repeat the frequency calibration using Wolf -m. Calculate the difference between the two RX frequency settings, and the difference between the frequencies as measured by Wolf. The soundcard sample rate is then: 8000 x (difference in RX tuning setting) / (difference in measured audio frequency) This gave me almost the same results as calibrating with an accurate audio frequency. Both methods assume the receiver reference oscillator is accurate, but it's accuracy will normally be pretty good compared to the soundcard. Note, however, that both methods may be defeated by receivers using DDS synthesisers, which tune in odd-frequency steps, but display the output to the nearest Hz. Note also that the soundcard sampling rate error depends on the actual rate selected - for example, measuring 800Hz using Spectrum Lab with 8k sample rate gave me a frequency error of about +4.5Hz, but with the 11k rate, the error was about -1.6Hz. The errors are different with different types of soundcard. So using other software to measure frequency offsets will not be helpful, unless it also uses an 8k sample rate. I think Argo uses the 11k rate. I don't know about the PSK31 software. Oh joy..... Hope this is helpful, Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1235 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 12:31:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 12:31:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 27909 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 12:30:51 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 12:30:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fhZF-0002VZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:18:21 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fhZD-0002VU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:18:20 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id NAA78494 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:17:53 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010321131726.312fb70e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 13:17:26 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: RE PICs and DDS etc. In-reply-to: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03EB@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov .uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To avoid panic amongst QRS users : the next version will compensate for the changing value of light speed when calculating the length of a dot ;-) Rik At 11:10 21/03/01 -0000, you wrote: >According to the latest theories, time may be slowing down. By >acccepting that the speed of light has been continuously reducing from >the point at which the universe was formed, they've worked out that the >uncertainty as to whether the Universe is continuously expanding, or >going to collapse again in a Big Crunch goes away. Apparently, the >Hubble Space Telescope is just beginning to show some evidence for this >theory of a reducing value for c. > >So, in about 4000 000 000 years 137kHz may have become 73kHz. Or >Topband, or 10GHz, who knows. Not sure what the implication of a >variable value for c really means. Antennas will have to change in >length - or will they, perhaps wavelength will stay constant and >frequency change. Will my Caesium standard still be accurate ? > >Its all very worrying :-( > >Andy G4JNT From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7813 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 12:13:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 12:13:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 17275 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 12:12:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 12:12:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fhHq-0002Rp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:00:22 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fhHp-0002Rk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:00:22 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.89.16]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 07:59:20 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AB8DE9D.58EEFE0E@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:02:21 -0500 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE PICs and DDS etc. References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03EB@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Andy, interesting, but please don't scare me like that 73 de John VE1ZJ Talbot Andrew wrote: > According to the latest theories, time may be slowing down. By > acccepting that the speed of light has been continuously reducing from > the point at which the universe was formed, they've worked out that the > uncertainty as to whether the Universe is continuously expanding, or > going to collapse again in a Big Crunch goes away. Apparently, the > Hubble Space Telescope is just beginning to show some evidence for this > theory of a reducing value for c. > > So, in about 4000 000 000 years 137kHz may have become 73kHz. Or > Topband, or 10GHz, who knows. Not sure what the implication of a > variable value for c really means. Antennas will have to change in > length - or will they, perhaps wavelength will stay constant and > frequency change. Will my Caesium standard still be accurate ? > > Its all very worrying :-( > > Andy G4JNT > > > a DAC is needed... TNX for clarifying. > > > > Time is continous... this was a great debate in the > > Theoretical Physics field > > many, many years ago. But now I have lost contact with that ambient > > and don't know what the present theories say. But this is > > totally off-topic... > > > > 73 Alberto I2PHD > > > > > > > > -- > The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence > is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). > For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, > or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is > prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2704 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 12:08:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 12:08:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 29373 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 12:08:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 12:08:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fhAi-0002P1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:53:00 +0000 Received: from mail11.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.23]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fhAg-0002Mn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:52:58 +0000 Received: from modem-111.arnor.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.125.239] helo=g3aqc) by mail11.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14fhAH-0007N8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:52:34 +0000 Message-ID: <003701c0b1fd$60a2d420$ef7d883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. Lf DFCW Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:50:32 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hello All,
Rik in a recent posting mentioned the timing inaccuracies of PC clock cards.Now I may be getting out of my depth here!but MSF Rugby puts out a time signal accurate to 1pt in a million,with long term correction to take care of drift.Surely other countries have similar systems(WWV for example.So why cant we use a cheap clock module £20 in the UK extract 1sec pulses to sync our QRSS and ARGO systems? Is this too naive?. I would like eventually to be able to use the equivalent of 10secs dots in order to make DX contacts a more realistic possibility. 73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22614 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 11:34:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 11:34:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 12985 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 11:34:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 11:34:24 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fglp-0002EN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:27:17 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fglo-0002EI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:27:16 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id LAA24617; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:29:40 GMT Received: (qmail 14734 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 12:18:10 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 12:18:10 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id MAA00328; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 12:04:54 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma000208; Wed, 21 Mar 01 12:04:24 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:32:01 +0000 Received: by frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:26:21 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03EC@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: exact audio reference Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:26:22 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Another solution is to run G3PLX's PSK31 SB software. There is a setup routine in the software that allows the Soundcard sampling rate to be calibrated. The procedure is given in the Help file, accessible from the menu bar. Again, an accurate audio frequency source will be necessary. The vectorscope in that software allows fine tuning accuracy to an arbitrary audio tone, and frequency resolution of less than 1Hz is clearly seen. So it becomes a useful tool for measuring carrier frequencies even if you don't actually want to use the PSK31 data mode. Andy G4JNT > > For those who want to calibrate the soundcard there is also a simple > hardware solution : > Take a CMOS4060 (14-stage divider with internal oscillator) > and let it run > with a xtal in the 8-12MHz range. At the end of the divider > chain (pin 3) > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5378 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 11:21:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 11:21:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 20610 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 11:21:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 11:21:38 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fgWc-000289-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:11:34 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fgWb-000284-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:11:34 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id LAA25490; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:13:57 GMT Received: (qmail 12124 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 12:02:27 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 12:02:27 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id LAA26720; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:49:10 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma026608; Wed, 21 Mar 01 11:48:55 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:16:32 +0000 Received: by frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:10:52 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03EB@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE PICs and DDS etc. Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:10:53 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: According to the latest theories, time may be slowing down. By acccepting that the speed of light has been continuously reducing from the point at which the universe was formed, they've worked out that the uncertainty as to whether the Universe is continuously expanding, or going to collapse again in a Big Crunch goes away. Apparently, the Hubble Space Telescope is just beginning to show some evidence for this theory of a reducing value for c. So, in about 4000 000 000 years 137kHz may have become 73kHz. Or Topband, or 10GHz, who knows. Not sure what the implication of a variable value for c really means. Antennas will have to change in length - or will they, perhaps wavelength will stay constant and frequency change. Will my Caesium standard still be accurate ? Its all very worrying :-( Andy G4JNT > a DAC is needed... TNX for clarifying. > > Time is continous... this was a great debate in the > Theoretical Physics field > many, many years ago. But now I have lost contact with that ambient > and don't know what the present theories say. But this is > totally off-topic... > > 73 Alberto I2PHD > > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23226 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 10:51:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 10:51:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 12390 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 10:50:58 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 10:50:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fg6P-0001uW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:44:29 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fg6O-0001uR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:44:28 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA162532 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:44:06 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010321114339.21ffe7b2@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:43:39 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: exact audio reference In-reply-to: <009001c0b1a3$263c3740$687a37c0@w2ksn> References: <3AB72FCB.11916.3A0834@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: For those who want to calibrate the soundcard there is also a simple hardware solution : Take a CMOS4060 (14-stage divider with internal oscillator) and let it run with a xtal in the 8-12MHz range. At the end of the divider chain (pin 3) you will get the xtal frequency divided by 16384 (will be in the 500-700Hz range). If you can measure the oscillator frequency (available at pin 9) with a 100Hz accuracy you will know the audio frequency with 0.006Hz accuracy. You get 100Hz accuracy with almost any frequency counter or by tuning into the signal with a HF receiver. With a better counter or a good RF receiver you can measure the oscillator signal even up to 10Hz accurate (= 0.0006Hz for the audio signal). Finaly, 'freaks' can take a 10MHz xtal and tune it zero beat against Boulder or so. That will give a 1Hz accuracy on the xtal or 0.00006Hz on the audio signal. For those who want to try it but don't have acces to a CMOS databook I can e-mail the circuit diagram. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8429 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 10:26:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 10:26:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 11096 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 10:26:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 10:26:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ffgk-0001h4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:17:58 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d12lmsgate-3.de.ibm.com ([195.212.91.201]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ffgj-0001gz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:17:57 +0000 Received: from d12relay02.de.ibm.com (d12relay02.de.ibm.com [9.165.215.23]) by d12lmsgate-3.de.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id LAA58316 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:17:00 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (dyn9-87-117-228.italy.ibm.com [9.87.117.228]) by d12relay02.de.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id LAA92678 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:14:37 +0100 Message-ID: <3AB87F85.984E0355@usa.net> Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 11:16:37 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: RE PICs and DDS etc. References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Klaus von der Heide wrote: > [snip] > The problem is the discrete time the DDS uses. The high order bit > only changes at the clock edges. The result is a square wave with > heavy phase jitter. For example, draw a sine wave (3 waves), > sample it at about 8/3 of its frequency in your sketch, and generate > the square wave from these sample values (all on the paper). > The one-periods and the zero-periods then are one or two clock cycles > long. That's what Andy in other words already said. > If a DAC is used then time is continuous and a clean square wave can > be obtained. Hi Klaus, yes, that makes a lot of sense. It seems that, after all, a DAC is needed... TNX for clarifying. Time is continous... this was a great debate in the Theoretical Physics field many, many years ago. But now I have lost contact with that ambient and don't know what the present theories say. But this is totally off-topic... 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27119 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 10:08:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 10:08:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 19893 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 10:08:05 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 10:08:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ffRL-0001a8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:02:03 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fm215.facility.pipex.com ([194.131.104.225]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ffRK-0001a3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:02:02 +0000 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (237.235.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.235.237]) by fm215.facility.pipex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA28942 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:55:50 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010321095259.00ab8940@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:00:42 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: Loran In-reply-to: <018401c0b1df$afe68f40$687a37c0@w2ksn> References: <57.132cfa73.27e951ff@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Markus et al, There is a data transmission superimposed on Sylt (and now on the other EU Loran tx). which may explain your unknown lines. This extract from a paper given by TU Delft at the US PLANS 98 conference explains it a bit (I have full tech data if you really want it but it's too long to put on here) Quote: LORAN-C DATA TRANSMISSION As Loran-C is a navigation system in itself, its navigation requirements and parameters restricts the use of the signals for transmission of information. The additional data modulation onto the Loran-C signal shall not influence normal Loran-C operation. Therefore, the following restrictions are imposed on the use of the Eurofix datalink: - The blinking service must be preserved, which excludes the first two pulses of each Loran-C group from Eurofix modulation. - The modulation is not allowed to induce tracking biases, which requires a balanced type of modulation. - The modulation index must be kept small in order to prevent an undesirable loss in tracking signal power. Based on these requirements, a pulse position modulation with a 1 uS modulation index is chosen. Only 6 out of 8 pulses per group will be modulated and the modulation is always balanced on a per GRI basis. The application of 3-level modulation (a 1 uS advance, a prompt, or a 1 uS delay) leaves a possible 7 bit of information per GRI. With Loran-C GRI's varying between 40 ms and 100 ms, the raw bit rate available for data transmission ranges from 175 to 70 bps. Normal Loran-C users only experience a slight signal loss of 0.79 dB. Future Loran-C receivers, which have knowledge of the Eurofix modulation, can easily compensate for the applied modulation, once the pulses are demodulated. This will cancel the signal loss completely. Note that the influences of Cross-Rate interference and blanking, phenomena inherent to the choice of the Loran-C signal structure, cause larger signal degradation. DGNSS message format The differential information is sent to the user in an asynchronous message format. The use of standard RTCM type-1 messages requires too much time to transmit a complete set of corrections. To keep data latency within acceptable limits, a minimum RTCM type-9 compatible message of 56 bits is applied, Table 1. Unfortunately, the simple parity schemes used in the RTCM messages do not suffice in the Loran-C signal environment of Cross-Rate interference and high ambient noise levels. Therefore. a different error correcting strategy is chosen. However, as standard and commercially available DGNSS receivers must be facilitated, the received Eurofix data is converted into a standard RTCM type-9 message. Forward Error Correction To ensure reliable broadcast data communication through Loran-C. Forward Error Correcting codes are applied. These codes provide an effective means to correct occasional errors (improved datalink availability) and validate the decoded data (integrity) at the cost of an increased message overhead. Figure 1 shows the modulation and encoding currently used to transmit data via Loran-C. In Eurofix a Reed-Solomon code ensures datalink availability for stations up to 1,000 km. Each 56-bit message (8 GRI's of 7 bits) is protected by additional Reed-Solomon parity GRI's. In recent experiments messages contained in 20 and 30 GRI's have been tested. Depending on the Group Repetition Interval (40-100 ms) of the Loran-C station the effective datarate of these schemes will be 70-28 bps and 47-19 bps, respectively. Message integrity is protected in three steps: 1. Before demodulation a received pulse is first compared with a stored reference pulse, built up by integration of the first 2 unmodulated pulses (Receiver Autonomous Signal Integrity Monitoring, RASIM). This way, the quality of the demodulated pulses is preserved [6]. 2. The Reed-Solomon code inherently adds integrity to the messages. The Probability of Undetected Error. Pue for a 10-error correcting Reed-Solomon code (30-GRI Eurofix message) is 1/10! = 2.7*10-7. 3. As a final safety net a 14-bit Cyclic Redundancy Check (CRC) ensures a lower bound on the Pue of better than 2(-14)=6.1*10-5. The final message integrity will be a combination (probably product) of the above three mechanisms. This level of message integrity outperforms the level of the standard RTCM messages without further integrity improvements. IMPLEMENTATION OF DGPS SERVICE AT THE SYLT LORAN-C STATION On February 5th, 1997, Delft University installed a DGPS reference station at the Sylt Loran-C transmitter site (Germany) on an experimental basis. From that date on differential corrections have been broadcast throughout Europe on the Sylt Secondary rate 8940. Corrections for all satellites in view are broadcast in RTCM type-9 compatible messages with one satellite correction per message. The update rate for a 30-GRI message at the Sylt's GRI is once every 2.7 seconds per satellite (30*89.40 ms). Since September 23"', 1997, Sylt operates as a Secondary in the new French chain 6731. The slightly lower GRI number increased the update rate to once every 2.0 seconds. When also the Master rate of Sylt (7499) will be used for data transmission the correction update rate will be even further improved. End quote. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11666 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 10:04:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 10:04:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 16967 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 10:04:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 10:04:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ffKt-0001Th-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:55:23 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ffKs-0001Tc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:55:22 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:53:36 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:53:34 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Success Message-ID: <3AB87A1E.21784.1B605B@localhost> In-reply-to: <009001c0b1a3$263c3740$687a37c0@w2ksn> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > If you're still having trouble with Jim's WOLF signal, please > email me a one minute .wav file, and I try to diagnose the > problem. You can convert it to 8-bit samples to save some > space, if you like. My mail server will accept attachments of > up to about 7 MB. > Stewart KK7KA Stewart, Many thanks for the offer but I have now fixed the problem by using the -r parameter to compensate for sound card sample rate. I tried the method suggested by JIm - the use of the -m command - but got a totally inaccurate result that fooled me for an hour. I recorded M0BMU's test transmission (thanks, Jim - this is a really useful service) last night at a lower level than previously but still had no copy. I then fiddled about with the parameters until suddenly it all worked. I had to set -r to anything between 8090 and 8110. Inside this range it was perfect, outside no copy at all. Plainly a really good way of being able to set this parameter would be useful. I think this makes me the first G station to receive another amateur using WOLF. This is hardly an achievement, though as Jim is less than 10km from me and he has already been read in the USA. Is there a web page that details the significance of the figures you see on screen before the text? I have found some info but not much that says "this should be in the region of . . .", or "if this is below xxx, adjust yyy". Thanks for the software. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1761 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 09:49:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 09:49:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 28320 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 09:49:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 09:49:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ff64-0001R0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:40:04 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ff62-0001QW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:40:03 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:38:27 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:38:25 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Re: lf tests Message-ID: <3AB87691.13316.D81C8@localhost> In-reply-to: <000001c0b1d2$13f44d00$34a401d5@dave> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3YMC wrote: > While the rest of you were playing with exotic modes on Monday evening I > was listening to Christer SM6PXJ in QSO with Ron G6RO - around 2030-2100z > > During the QSO Christer remarked that he might have been causing tvi, and as > such couldn't stay to work Uli DJ9IE who called him afterwards. > ...................... - is this the first reported case of TVI on > lf?? More likely the Aurora was causing the TVI and Christer was being blamed! Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10551 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 09:48:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 09:48:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 27923 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 09:48:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 09:48:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ff4Z-0001QO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:38:31 +0000 Received: from [195.47.110.226] (helo=dell1.gmccz.cz.gmc.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ff4Y-0001N7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:38:30 +0000 Received: from p (p.maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net [192.168.1.22]) by dell1.gmccz.cz.gmc.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id G8RYL8T8; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:40:43 +0100 Message-ID: <007c01c0b1e9$cf20bf20$1601a8c0@maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly" To: "136 group" Subject: LF: Skeds please Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:32:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi LowFers I plan to be QRV again after a long time this weekend, from Friday evening to Sunday noon. Any skeds welcome, mainly from EI, EA, CT, F, GW. Both CW and Visual-CW. 73 Petr OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19647 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 09:30:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 09:30:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 10135 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 09:30:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 09:30:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fer8-0001FT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:24:38 +0000 Received: from cobalt4.source.net ([206.100.10.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fer6-0001FN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:24:36 +0000 Received: from w2ksn (windev1.scgroup.com [192.55.122.104]) by cobalt4.source.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id BAA11900; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 01:24:06 -0800 Message-ID: <002401c0b1e8$d18be830$687a37c0@w2ksn> From: "Stewart Nelson" To: "Rik Strobbe" Cc: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20010321095813.2c2f637a@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: LF: Re: WOLF Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 01:25:06 -0800 Organization: SC Group MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Rik and all, I think that this bug has been fixed, but I failed to post to the LF group. My apologies. If 0.52 doesn't fix the problem for you, please tell me what program you are using to record, or email me a failing sample. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stewart Nelson" To: "LowFER reflector" Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 9:21 PM Subject: Re: [Lowfer] RecAll help (new WOLF release) Hi all, The bug in WOLF which caused only partial processing of .wav files written by programs such as RecAll has, I hope, been fixed. The '-v' (verbose) option will now also display the resolution and sample count of the file being read. The new version is 0.52 and can be downloaded at http://www.scgroup.com/ham/wolf.html . Sorry for all the hassle this bug has caused. Please let me know of any further problems. 73, Stewart KK7KA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rik Strobbe" To: "Stewart Nelson" Sent: Wednesday, March 21, 2001 9:58 AM Subject: WOLF > Hello Stewart, > > While testing WOLF on M0BMU's transmissions I came across a problem : > I have about a dozen recordings (different in length) of Jim's > transmissions. WOLF accepts all of them, but with some the program > terminates just after one 'cycle' (so I get the 24 sec. result and the WOLF > terminates). All recordings are at least 1 minute long, so there should be > at least 2 full cycles. > Any idea what is going wrong ? > > thanks, > > 73, Rik ON7YD > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26895 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 09:21:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 09:21:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 28490 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 09:21:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 09:21:35 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14feer-0001Dp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:11:57 +0000 Received: from fm215.facility.pipex.com ([194.131.104.225]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14feep-0001Dg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:11:56 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (254.235.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.235.254]) by fm215.facility.pipex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA21855 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:05:03 GMT Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010320102742.00aa05a0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:11:06 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: The EF50 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------020606040603060009050803" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020606040603060009050803 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Although off-subject there seems to be a lot of interest in the EF50. Attached is a text-only version of a recent article written by Keith Thrower, an ex-Director of Racal and an electronics historian. It comes from the journal of the "Centre for the History of Defence Electronics" at Bournemouth University - http://chide.bournemouth.a.c.uk Walter G3JKV. --------------020606040603060009050803 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; name="ATT07455.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="ATT07455.txt" The following article was published in the December 2000 issue of "Transmission Lines", the journal of the "Centre for the History of Defence Electronics", based at Bournemouth University. Illustrations have been omitted in this text-only copy to save space. If you'd like to see the full article ask CHiDE for a copy of their journal - chide@bournemouth.ac.uk. The Famous EF50 Valve of WWII by Keith Thrower OBE By the early 1930s screen grid and pentode valves were available for RF amplification for frequencies up to about 30MHz, which was adequate for both broadcast and commercial purposes at the time, when radio usage had not extended into the UHF band. At frequencies above 30MHz the gain available from valves fell very sharply; there were two principal problems: the first was caused by the inductance and capacitance of the internal leads that connected the valve electrodes to the terminating pins; the second was due to the finite transit time that the electrons took to travel between the valve electrodes. The first problem arose through the valve design and manufacturing techniques which had evolved from those used in the electric lamp industry. One particular constructional feature of the valve, copied directly from the lamp industry, was the use of an internal glass stem and pinch that held the support wires to the electrode assembly, and also provided a vacuum seal for the lead-out wires. The problem that arose from this method of construction was that the total length of the connections from the electrodes to their terminating pins was quite long, resulting in significant self-inductance of the wires as well as excessive self-capacitance between them. At frequencies below 30MHz, these parasitic inductive and capacitive components did not seriously affect the performance of the valve, but their effects became increasingly more serious at frequencies above this. The second problem - the finite transit time for the electrons to move between the electrodes - was very serious for valve circuits operating at frequencies above 30MHz. For a typical RF valve of conventional construction, the transit time for the electrons to move between the cathode and control grid was about one nanosecond (one thousand-millionth of a second). At frequencies of a few megahertz, this transit time was insignificant compared with the time for one cycle of the signal frequency. At 100MHz, however, the time was about 10% of one cycle and this was very significant. The phase lag caused by this time delay resulted in a low input resistance at high frequencies, which significantly reduced the amplification available. A great deal of experimental research work was carried out at the RCA laboratories during the early 1930s to investigate the behaviour of radio frequency amplifier valves, where it was found that improved circuit performance could be achieved if the valve dimensions were reduced. With a linear reduction, the mutual conductance and other valve parameters remained almost unchanged, but the lead inductance, interelectrode capacitance and electron transit time all fell in direct proportion to the reduction of dimensions. In fact, such a linear reduction was not practical; however, the tiny 'Acorn' valves that resulted from this work were capable of providing amplification at frequencies up to about 400MHz. The first of these valves to go into production was the type 955 triode which was introduced in 1934. This was followed by the 954 pentode in 1935 and a variable-mu pentode, the type 956, in 1936 (see Figure 1). They all had indirectly heated cathodes, operating at 6.3V, 0.l5A. The diameter of the heater-cathode assembly was comparable with that of a common household pin and the overall length was less than one half. The capacitance between the control grid and anode for both the triode and pentode was about half that of conventional valves, and all other internal capacitances were also significantly reduced. Before long, acorn valves, based on the RCA design, were introduced in Britain by Mazda, Marconi-Osram and Mullard. Initially, all the British acorn valves had 4V heaters, but 6.3V versions were introduced in 1940. Figure 2 shows how the input resistance of a valve is affected by transit time, where a comparison is made between an acorn pentode and an equivalent, conventional pentode. At 30MHz, the conventional pentode (B) has an input resistance of 17k which falls to only 1.5k at 100MHz. The equivalent figures for the acorn pentode (A) are 220k at 30MHz and 20k at 100MHz. This fall of input resistance, which has a critical effect on the amplification that the valve can provide is inversely proportional to the square of the frequency: if the frequency is doubled, the resistance falls by a factor of four and a ten-fold increase in frequency results in a hundred-fold decrease of input resistance. It is not difficult to see, therefore, that conventional valves were unsuitable for operation in the UHF band, whereas the acorn or similar miniature valves were better suited. British companies, such as MOV and Mullard, found the acorn valves very difficult to manufacture because of the highly skilled labour required. As a result, considerable quantities of the valves were imported from the US for use in military radar equipment during World War 2. Because of the manufacturing problems and the eventual availability of alternative valves, the acorn types were blacklisted by the Inter-Service Technical Valve Committee in June 1941. With the commencement of high definition television in 1936 there was a need for a new type of valve capable of providing wideband RF amplification. The frequencies required for the Alexandra Palace transmission were 41.5MHz for the sound channel and 45MHz for the vision channel, the latter requiring a bandwidth of 3MHz in order to accommodate the full picture information. In order to achieve satisfactory amplification of the video signal, valves were required with a high value of mutual conductance, and if this amplification was to be achieved at RF the valves must have low values of internal capacitance and self-inductance, in addition to a short electron transit time. The early valves produced for this role were far from satisfactory. By the mid-1930s top-secret work was in progress at Bawdsey Manor in Essex on radio direction finding (RDF)later to be re-named radar. For this, once again, valves capable of providing wideband UHF amplification were required. At this time Tom Goldup, a senior director of the Mullard Valve Company, was liaising with the British government and was made aware of this requirement. Mullard was wholly owned by the Dutch Philips Company and all the valve R&D work was carried out at the Philips Eindhoven plant. Goldup approached Philips asking if there was a valve with the required specification. (Because RDF could not be mentioned I suspect he referred to television applications.) He was told that a suitable valve was being developed for the Dutch government; samples, therefore, could not be supplied to Mullard. It would appear that the UK government approached the Dutch government and samples were then supplied. The valve in question was the EF50, which became available for television use in 1939. At this time all the valves were being manufactured in Holland. The construction of the Mullard FF50 is of interest because it marked a significant departure from the conventional types used in Britain at the time. The usual Bakelite base and internal glass pinch were replaced by an all-glass base. Elimination of the stem and pinch resulted in a considerable reduction in length of the internal wires. The valve had nine chromium-iron pins, which were sealed into the glass base and arranged uniformly around a central metallic spigot, which was keyed in order to facilitate insertion into the valveholder. The spigot was joined to an external metal screen that covered the whole base, with small holes to allow the pins through. Because of the screening provided, it was possible to bring all the connections out to the base, avoiding the need for a top cap connection. With the outbreak of war it was realized that the supply of EF50 valves would dry up and Mullard did not have the capability of manufacturing the special glass base with sealed-in pins. Consequently, just before Germany invaded Holland, a truck came from Holland with one million of these glass bases. Later, huge numbers of the valves were manufactured by Sylvania in the US. Figure 4 shows a selection of EF50 valves from various suppliers available during the War. The original Air Force type number was VR91, the Army type ARP35 and the CV number 1091. From left to right these are: (i) and (ii) Sylvania manufactured VR91, front and back view. (iii) Silver UK version of VR91 for RAF use. (iv) Silver UK version ARP35 for Army use. (v) Mullard EF50 red. (vi) Mullard EF50 silver (vii) Cossor 63SPT (viii) Osram Z90. A typical use of the EF5O was in the Pye 45MHz IF strip - Receiving Unit Type 153 - which was used universally in British radar equipment during the war. A picture of this can be seen in Figure 5. It had six EF50s (VR91s) and one EA50 (VR92) miniature signal diode. A variant of the EF50 was the RL7 (VR136). This had aligned grids to reduce partition noise, and the cathode was connected by leads to two separate pins to reduce still further the selfinductance. The valve was capable of proving RF amplification at 200MHz and could thus displace the acorn valve. In post war years it was re-designated as EF54. Acknowledgements I am grateful to Dr Graham Winbolt who provided the photographs of the EF5O valves in Figure 4 and the Receiving Unit Type 153 in Figure 5. The information on the RL7 was obtained from Brian Callick's excellent book Metres to Microwaves (published by Peter Peregrinus Ltd and obtainable from the IEE). For more information on early British valves see History of the British Radio Valve to 1940 by K Thrower and published by Speedwell. --------------020606040603060009050803-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29141 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 09:12:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 09:12:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 14496 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 09:11:59 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 09:11:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14feYu-00018b-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:05:48 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14feYt-00018W-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:05:47 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA206564 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:05:25 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010321100459.2c2ff8d0@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 10:04:59 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: lf tests In-reply-to: <000001c0b1d2$13f44d00$34a401d5@dave> References: <3AB79746.7E947458@ns.sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >but Christer was a steady 589, not much weaker than Ron, and the >strongest I have ever heard him. They had an excellent chat and exchanged >589 reports and I think they were each surprised at how good signals were. >Whether this is related to the auroral conditions I don't know. Hi Dave, I'm sure it has. I noticed enhanced propagation toward OH1TN at 'auroral days' ever since I'm active on LF. It wasn't unusual for Reino's signal to be 10-15dB stronger at such occasions. I have the impression that this effect is more effective on a north-south path than on an east-west path. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11045 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 08:43:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 08:43:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 4052 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 08:43:39 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 08:43:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fe6G-0000ua-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:36:12 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fe6F-0000uV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:36:12 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA142930 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:35:48 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010321093521.2dbffa84@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:35:21 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: DFCW In-reply-to: <72.8cd73c8.27e8f609@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Wolf, >The problem is, PC clocks (though called 'Real Time Clocks') can be quite >bad, much worse than the cheapest wristwatch you can buy in a coffee-store. >So setting the clock for an accuracy of 0.1 sec or better only lasts for a >few MINUTES (!) on some nasty PCs (like the one I have to use sometimes). When I was thinking of implementing 'time synchronisation' in QRS I did some tests with 5 different PC's : I set the clock to DCF77, let them run for 16 hours and checked the difference between the PC clock and DCF77. The differences turned out to be between +10 and -8 seconds, so a 'drift' of about 0.6 seconds/hour. Taking into account that 5% error in the 'time synchronisation' equals a 0.2dB loss (seems acceptable to me) would mean that for 30 sec./dot a 1.5 second timing error is acceptable. Taking worst case (PC clocks drifting in different directions) this would mean that the time for a QSO is about 70 minutes. If there is some real interest in this 'time synchronized' stuff I will have a closer look a the drift of the PC clock, if it tends to be a (more or less) linear drift it could even be compensated in QRS. >What really helps would be a GPS (costly, only works if satellites visible) >or a cheap DCF receiver connected to the serial port (if not already occupied >by mouse, modem, PIC, TRX control, DSP board etc etc). >You have to readjust the clock continously, if you want 'reliable' second >markers for recording intervals of an hour or so. A possible workaround would >be using the soundcards "calibrated" sample rate as a timebase. Using the soundcard may be more 'user friendly' that using a GPS. A good idea. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11269 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 08:41:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 08:41:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 126 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 08:41:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 08:41:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fdpy-0000oI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:19:22 +0000 Received: from cobalt4.source.net ([206.100.10.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fdpw-0000oD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:19:20 +0000 Received: from w2ksn (windev1.scgroup.com [192.55.122.104]) by cobalt4.source.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id AAA09016; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 00:18:45 -0800 Message-ID: <018401c0b1df$afe68f40$687a37c0@w2ksn> From: "Stewart Nelson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" References: <57.132cfa73.27e951ff@aol.com> Subject: LF: Re: Loran DX Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 00:19:41 -0800 Organization: SC Group MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Markus and all, I'm quite interested in this idea; perhaps we can work together to develop the code. We might call it the LAMP (Loran Analysis for Monitoring Propagation), but other suggestions are welcome. I haven't written any real code yet, but processed some .wav files with a simple perl script and plotted the results with Excel. You can see a sample at http://www.scgroup.com/ham/h9610.gif . I used a one-minute recording made by Dexter W4DEX in Stanfield, North Carolina. The horizontal scale is samples from the beginning of the recording, modulo the GRI "tuned", 9610 in this case. The vertical scale is arbitrary voltage units. The four colors show correlation with master and secondary codes, with both A/B sequences. Layout of the 9610 chain can be found at http://www.megapulse.com/pix/chain/9610.gif . The magenta peak at 1592 is the master in Boise City, Oklahoma. The big yellow peaks at 307 and 641 are Raymondville, TX and Grangeville, LA, respectively. Cyan peaks at 2069 and 2618 are Gillette, WY, and Searchlight, NV. This last one is 3115 km from W4DEX. You can't see Las Cruces because of a bug related to wraparound. My best DX is Ejde, 5760 km from W4DEX. It was just slightly above the highest noise peak for the 9007 chain. Unfortunately, I couldn't positively identify stations such as Sylt or Lessay. To make this system really useful, we need IMO about 10 dB more S/N. I have some ideas on how to get it, and I'd very much like to hear yours. For starters, we can integrate for more than one minute. Unfortunately, this must be partly noncoherent, because I think that the skywave path is generally not phase stable for longer than a couple of minutes. We could use a filter properly matched to the receiver's impulse response. My script has only a crude two point equalizer. For dual-rated stations, we could coherently combine pulses from both GRI's (see below). And, most complex, we could use an adaptive equalizer to cancel most of the local QRM. W4DEX is only 261 km from the Carolina Beach station; the present script simply goes deaf during those pulses. The perl code is at http://www.scgroup.com/ham/loran1f.txt . You can see that it is pretty crude - I used Cool Edit to convert the .wav to 32000 Hz samples and to text, and determined the true sample rate and BFO frequency manually. Sorry that there are no comments. Not only do LORAN transmitters use atomic clocks, but they are monitored and kept within 200 nanoseconds of UTC. The long term frequency error is zero! Also, every LORAN master conceptually emitted a pulse on January 1, 1958 at 00:00:00 UTC. So if you know the time within 1 GRI, you can tell the exact time. Better, by looking at the timing from a dual-rated station, you only need know the time within a few seconds. With two dual-rated stations, within several hours, and with three, within about a year. So, by carefully examining the recording, I determined that the first recorded master pulse from the 9960 chain was the one emitted from Seneca on March 12, 2001 at 01:28:31.0544 UTC. I then used this information to predict exactly where pulses should appear from stations in various other chains. If within ground wave range, the match was always within 20 microseconds, so any additional sky wave delay could be judged quite accurately. Also, the amplitude of the signal from the closest station is probably consistent within 0.1 dB, so the system could continuously self-calibrate and give accurate field strength readings, too. How should we proceed from here? 73, Stewart KK7KA ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 4:38 PM Subject: LF: Loran DX > Hi Wolf and all, > > triggered by John VE1ZJ's recent remarks on Loran as a skywave propagation > monitor, a couple of weeks ago I took a deeper look at what could be > received. John's "www.G4CNN.f2s.com/Loran_lines.htm" pointed me to the list > at "www.megapulse.com/table.html". With this at hand I tried to identify the > lines I could see on Argo around 100.0 kHz. > > The key to their frequencies is the "GRI" (group repetition interval), which > is the number of 10us carrier periods between two repetitions of the > modulating pulse groups. Each group consists of 9 or 8 pulses, 1 ms apart. > Some of these pulses have an alternating phase, so that the periodicity of > the pattern is actually two times the GRI: > Master Secondary > ++--+-+- + +++++--+ > +--+++++ - +-+-++-- > Thus the frequency spacing of the lines is Df = 100kHz/(2*GRI), eg. > 100kHz/(2*7499) = 6.6676 Hz for the Sylt chain. The Loran-C carrier frequency > is generated by atomic clocks and claimed to be accurate on the order of > 10^-13. > > The chains I could clearly observe here were > > GRI Df Chain (Wolf's AM line) > /10us /Hz > 5930 8.4317 Canadian East Coast > 6731 7.4283 Lessay > 7001 7.1418 Bo (140*Df = 999.8572 Hz) > 7030 7.1124 Saudi Arabia S > 7270 6.8776 Newfoundland East Coast > 7499 6.6676 Sylt (150*Df = 1000.1334 Hz) > 8000 6.2500 Western Russia (160*Df = 1000.000 Hz) > 8830 5.6625 Saudi Arabia N > 9007 5.5512 Eide > > Then there were additional weak lines which were too close to 100 kHz, at > offsets of 1.52, 3.04 and 4.56 Hz. Their explanation is a little more subtle: > Many loran stations are "dual-rated", they transmit in two chains with > different GRI's. In case of a collision between two pulses that would have to > be sent simultaneously, one of the pulses is simply left out. These dropped > pulses occur at the beat frequency between the two GRI's. For the Sylt > station, these "intermodulation" lines are multiples of > (100kHz/6731-100kHz/7499) = 1.5215Hz. > > There were even more lines I could not identify, eg. on 5.14, 5.90, 7.24, > 8.18, 8.95 Hz. This made me wonder if the table is really complete, as stated > by megapulse. Also, I can't explain Wolf's observed 999.96 Hz. > > The fun got even more interesting when I went to time domain. Using a > programmable divider clocked by 100 kHz, I generated 2*GRI trigger signals > for a digital oscilloscope in 128-averaging mode, and viewed the SSB output > tuned to 100.0 kHz zero beat (thus allowing phase-sensitive averaging). With > this setup I could see the individual pulse groups of distant chains grow out > of the noise, identify their stations and measure the time-differences. These > matched calculated great-circle distances with a surprising accuracy of less > than 100us, and it even worked fine for all five of the Saudi-Arabian > stations, up to 4642 km from here. > > Thus I think that Loran-C can be used not only as a precise frequency and > time standard, but also as a powerful instrument for worldwide LF propagation > monitoring, aided by its ability to resolve propagation delays. > > 73s and happy experimenting > de Markus, DF6NM > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26875 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 08:00:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 08:00:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 17605 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 08:00:24 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 08:00:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fdJQ-0000bf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 07:45:44 +0000 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fdJP-0000ba-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 07:45:43 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14fdJ3-000J2l-0K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 07:45:21 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 07:44:24 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: Re: LF: Re: lf tests In-reply-to: <000001c0b1d2$13f44d00$34a401d5@dave> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 3.05 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave I was also eavesdropping on Ron & Christer's QSO while working in the shack and Christer was no stronger than usual here in the South-West. However....I worked him one night a few months ago and exchanged 599 both ways. On that occasion signals were very definitely enhanced for some reason or other. 73, Tom G3OLB In message <000001c0b1d2$13f44d00$34a401d5@dave>, Dave Sergeant writes >>From Dave G3YMC > >John Currie wrote: >>The K index was a 4 at 0000z last nite and a 6 at 0900z . We had >>widespread Au propagation on 144 mHz in both Eu es NA. I had visible >>Aurora at 0833Z here > >While the rest of you were playing with exotic modes on Monday evening I >was listening to Christer SM6PXJ in QSO with Ron G6RO - around 2030-2100z if >I remember right. Not only was it nice to here Ron after his sad news last >week, but Christer was a steady 589, not much weaker than Ron, and the >strongest I have ever heard him. They had an excellent chat and exchanged >589 reports and I think they were each surprised at how good signals were. >Whether this is related to the auroral conditions I don't know. > >During the QSO Christer remarked that he might have been causing tvi, and as >such couldn't stay to work Uli DJ9IE who called him afterwards. Uli was >weaker than Christer, and I noticed that both he and F6BWO were their normal >signals, so perhaps we were seeing an auroral path from SM. Perhaps >Christer would like to comment - is this the first reported case of TVI on >lf?? > > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10225 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 06:46:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 06:46:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 19132 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 06:46:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 06:46:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fcIU-0000Ed-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 06:40:42 +0000 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fcIT-0000EY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 06:40:41 +0000 Received: from [213.1.164.52] (helo=dave) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14fcI6-00027G-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 06:40:19 +0000 Message-ID: <000001c0b1d2$13f44d00$34a401d5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" References: <3AB79746.7E947458@ns.sympatico.ca> Subject: LF: Re: lf tests Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:45:06 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC John Currie wrote: >The K index was a 4 at 0000z last nite and a 6 at 0900z . We had >widespread Au propagation on 144 mHz in both Eu es NA. I had visible >Aurora at 0833Z here While the rest of you were playing with exotic modes on Monday evening I was listening to Christer SM6PXJ in QSO with Ron G6RO - around 2030-2100z if I remember right. Not only was it nice to here Ron after his sad news last week, but Christer was a steady 589, not much weaker than Ron, and the strongest I have ever heard him. They had an excellent chat and exchanged 589 reports and I think they were each surprised at how good signals were. Whether this is related to the auroral conditions I don't know. During the QSO Christer remarked that he might have been causing tvi, and as such couldn't stay to work Uli DJ9IE who called him afterwards. Uli was weaker than Christer, and I noticed that both he and F6BWO were their normal signals, so perhaps we were seeing an auroral path from SM. Perhaps Christer would like to comment - is this the first reported case of TVI on lf?? 73s Dave dsergeant@btinternet.com dsergeant@iee.org http://www.btinternet.com/~dsergeant From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20931 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 02:32:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 02:32:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 19656 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 02:32:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 02:32:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fYL4-0007CZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 02:27:06 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from m11.boston.juno.com ([64.136.24.74]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fYL3-0007CU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 02:27:05 +0000 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"yokUgcxCbtTP7XLrpefewH03R1Ppa6bNsGNxlJux6NBnzHmPHPJUmQ=="> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from riese-k3djc@juno.com) by m11.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id FYZ697CC; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 21:26:09 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 21:17:41 -0500 Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: DFCW Message-ID: <20010320.212419.-712643.8.riese-k3djc@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "BOB RIESE" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: What the heck is a mudball/ John VE1ZJ That would be the 3rd rock from the sun Bob From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24492 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 01:12:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 01:12:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 7876 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 01:12:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 01:12:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fX6R-0006fs-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 01:07:55 +0000 Received: from cobalt4.source.net ([206.100.10.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fX6Q-0006fn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 01:07:54 +0000 Received: from w2ksn (windev1.scgroup.com [192.55.122.104]) by cobalt4.source.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA17025 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:07:30 -0800 Message-ID: <009a01c0b1a3$6e83c950$687a37c0@w2ksn> From: "Stewart Nelson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4736.200103191732@gemini> <000201c0b0c8$76567820$6fe086d4@ericadodd> <006e01c0b0e6$d26adfc0$687a37c0@w2ksn> <000e01c0b12a$78868b00$1cce28c3@ericadodd> Subject: LF: Re: Re: WOLF BPSK Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:08:25 -0800 Organization: SC Group MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Peter, It appears that Rik solved this problem, but if you're still having trouble, please let me know and I'll try to help. 73, Stewart KK7KA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23139 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 01:10:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 01:10:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 20421 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 01:10:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 01:10:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fX4V-0006fa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 01:05:55 +0000 Received: from cobalt4.source.net ([206.100.10.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fX4T-0006fV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 01:05:53 +0000 Received: from w2ksn (windev1.scgroup.com [192.55.122.104]) by cobalt4.source.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA16874 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:05:29 -0800 Message-ID: <009001c0b1a3$263c3740$687a37c0@w2ksn> From: "Stewart Nelson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3AB72FCB.11916.3A0834@localhost> Subject: LF: Re: Success and failure Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:06:23 -0800 Organization: SC Group MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Mike, If you're still having trouble with Jim's WOLF signal, please email me a one minute .wav file, and I try to diagnose the problem. You can convert it to 8-bit samples to save some space, if you like. My mail server will accept attachments of up to about 7 MB. 73, Stewart KK7KA ----- Original Message ----- From: "Mike Dennison" To: Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 2:24 AM Subject: WOLF: Success and failure > I tried out WOLF for the first time last night with total success. > > Jim was sending GY(^%? JGGF, followed by H(*^RCKO KKl, followed by . . . . > > OK, so it wasn't quite as successful as I would have liked. > > My first problem was finding the Command Prompt (pseudo DOS) on > Windows ME. After 20 minutes, I located it under Programs, Accessories!! > > I then successfully generated a test signal (WAV file) and 'received' it 100% > as per the instructions. So WOLF is easy after all. > > Now for the big test - real RF. Jim came up with his test transmission and I > recorded it using Spectrogram but this didn't work. The problem seems to be > that WOLF needs a sample rate of 8kb, and Spectrogram doesn't do this rate. > An hour later, I used Cool Edit (a nice program) to generate a usable WAV > file of Jim's signal. > > Several hours later I gave up, having failed to read anything at all from Jim. > > Possible causes: Jim's signal is very strong so possible sound card level > problem. Also I may have been a long way off frequency (see below). Will test > further tonight. > > Getting the correct audio frequency proved difficult and I only fixed it this > morning after breakfast. I can use BBC 198kHz to calibrate Argo to measure > a 136kHz signal to much better than 1Hz, but could not find an easy way of > measuring 800Hz!! First I believed the Argo readout at 800Hz, but later tests > showed this to be a long way out (this is not a complaint against Argo). I > finally listened to DBF38 on AM and beat my DDS against it, then used the > resultant 800Hz beat note to calibrate Argo. Later I found the offset facility on > my IC-706. This sets the audio frequency for comfortable CW reception - > normally about 400Hz. Setting this to 800Hz gave me 800Hz audio to within > half a Hertz with the RF dial set to the correct frequency. Now why didn't I > think of that in the first place? > > Some thoughts on WOLF: > > It looks very useful and I think it may well be the mode for the 2001/2002 DX > season (though I will still run CW and QRSS). > > The command line is hard work and needs a lot of interpretation. I am sure > there are programmers out there who could provide an easy display with > 'switches' and 'dials', and some automation of the variables to optimise > reception. > > Transmit is a bigger problem if you cannot generate high power SSB at > 136kHz. Jim has cracked the problem with his Decca (Class D), and I look > forward to him publishing his modulator circuit. His signal is VERY clean with > me only a few km away. > > We will need to devise a protocol for QSOs. > > We will also need to find a way of having 'random' QSOs. At present the > frequency must be known accurately in advance and monitored for a very > long time. This is not viable if you don't know there is someone transmitting. > > I find WOLF fascinating and challenging, whilst - at least on receive - not > needing huge amounts of work to get going. > > I hope Jim will continue his test transmissions to get more people set up. > > > > Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) > http://www.lf.thersgb.net > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8446 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 00:44:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 00:44:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 6112 invoked from network); 21 Mar 2001 00:44:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Mar 2001 00:44:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fWem-0006Y3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 00:39:20 +0000 Received: from imo-m04.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.7]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fWel-0006Xy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 00:39:19 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-m04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.57.132cfa73 (5726) for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 19:38:24 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <57.132cfa73.27e951ff@aol.com> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 19:38:23 EST Subject: LF: Loran DX To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 70 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Wolf and all, triggered by John VE1ZJ's recent remarks on Loran as a skywave propagation monitor, a couple of weeks ago I took a deeper look at what could be received. John's "www.G4CNN.f2s.com/Loran_lines.htm" pointed me to the list at "www.megapulse.com/table.html". With this at hand I tried to identify the lines I could see on Argo around 100.0 kHz. The key to their frequencies is the "GRI" (group repetition interval), which is the number of 10us carrier periods between two repetitions of the modulating pulse groups. Each group consists of 9 or 8 pulses, 1 ms apart. Some of these pulses have an alternating phase, so that the periodicity of the pattern is actually two times the GRI: Master Secondary ++--+-+- + +++++--+ +--+++++ - +-+-++-- Thus the frequency spacing of the lines is Df = 100kHz/(2*GRI), eg. 100kHz/(2*7499) = 6.6676 Hz for the Sylt chain. The Loran-C carrier frequency is generated by atomic clocks and claimed to be accurate on the order of 10^-13. The chains I could clearly observe here were GRI Df Chain (Wolf's AM line) /10us /Hz 5930 8.4317 Canadian East Coast 6731 7.4283 Lessay 7001 7.1418 Bo (140*Df = 999.8572 Hz) 7030 7.1124 Saudi Arabia S 7270 6.8776 Newfoundland East Coast 7499 6.6676 Sylt (150*Df = 1000.1334 Hz) 8000 6.2500 Western Russia (160*Df = 1000.000 Hz) 8830 5.6625 Saudi Arabia N 9007 5.5512 Eide Then there were additional weak lines which were too close to 100 kHz, at offsets of 1.52, 3.04 and 4.56 Hz. Their explanation is a little more subtle: Many loran stations are "dual-rated", they transmit in two chains with different GRI's. In case of a collision between two pulses that would have to be sent simultaneously, one of the pulses is simply left out. These dropped pulses occur at the beat frequency between the two GRI's. For the Sylt station, these "intermodulation" lines are multiples of (100kHz/6731-100kHz/7499) = 1.5215Hz. There were even more lines I could not identify, eg. on 5.14, 5.90, 7.24, 8.18, 8.95 Hz. This made me wonder if the table is really complete, as stated by megapulse. Also, I can't explain Wolf's observed 999.96 Hz. The fun got even more interesting when I went to time domain. Using a programmable divider clocked by 100 kHz, I generated 2*GRI trigger signals for a digital oscilloscope in 128-averaging mode, and viewed the SSB output tuned to 100.0 kHz zero beat (thus allowing phase-sensitive averaging). With this setup I could see the individual pulse groups of distant chains grow out of the noise, identify their stations and measure the time-differences. These matched calculated great-circle distances with a surprising accuracy of less than 100us, and it even worked fine for all five of the Saudi-Arabian stations, up to 4642 km from here. Thus I think that Loran-C can be used not only as a precise frequency and time standard, but also as a powerful instrument for worldwide LF propagation monitoring, aided by its ability to resolve propagation delays. 73s and happy experimenting de Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2480 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 22:22:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 22:22:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 20540 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 22:22:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 22:22:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fURq-0005Xz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:17:50 +0000 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fURo-0005Xu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:17:48 +0000 Received: from steve (ppp224.dyn154.pacific.net.au [210.23.154.224]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id JAA23910 for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:17:22 +1100 Message-ID: <00b401c0b18b$a189b160$0301a8c0@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: TECH: Loran signals received in AM as audio reference ? Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 09:17:57 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
G'day Wolf,
 
I have been using this technique for some time now with no problems.   The difference is I having been using the 1000Hz time pips from a local time and frequency station (VNG - 2.5MHz).
 
As long as you stick to the "standard" sample rates of 11025Hz, 22050Hz and 44100Hz then the sample rate will be pretty much as accurate as normal xtal oscillator (usually +/-100ppm).    This means there is no ambiguity (trying to decide which peak is the correct one) as +/-100ppm is +/-0.1Hz @ 1000Hz.    There is more than one peak because the pips vary from a 50mS burst to a 500mS burst producing varying relative amplitudes of the 1 second sidebands.    The result is a peak at 1000Hz, 1001Hz, 1002Hz....  (and going down 999Hz. 998Hz, 997Hz...).    But as long as your card is within +/-500ppm then you just pick the nearest one to 1000Hz.    I have found that on many signals the "biggest" one may not be the correct one, so be careful with trying to sort out the correct one using Loran lines as they appear to be spaced by 0.1Hz.
 
Doesn't WWV or other time frequency stations have pips (maybe not 1000Hz).  
 
8000Hz is a "semi-standard" frequency so it may follow the same behaviour.
 
BTW, for those doing programming, avoid any "non-standard" sampling frequencies (I can't say one way or another about 8000Hz - simply that the error on my laptop at 11025Hz is +53ppm, while the error at 8000Hz is +300ppm) as I have found that, for example, using 5500Hz can be a disaster for anything other than a 100.000% soundblaster soundcard.   On my VFSKCW program I have had reports ranging from mild inaccuracies to a factor of 6 !!!! in output frequency.    It seems to be fairly common on laptops because they don't have soundblaster cards.
 
You might be interested in some measurements I did using this technique a couple of years back.   They are still relevant to me as I still have the same gear :-)
 
Go to: -
 
 

73s Steve Olney (VK2ZTO/AXSO - QF56IK : Lat -33 34 07, Long +150 44 40)
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Amateur Radio Astronomy
=============================================
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23444 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 22:14:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 22:14:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 23830 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 22:14:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 22:14:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fUJ5-0005W5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:08:47 +0000 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fUJ4-0005W0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:08:46 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer (man-104.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.40.133]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id f2KM8Jd03813 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:08:20 GMT Message-ID: <00ac01c0b18a$d04bb6c0$8528f7c2@oemcomputer> From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7677381.985113404895.JavaMail.imail@zero.excite.com> Subject: Re: LF: Re: WOLF - am I missing something ? Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:02:40 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: john sexton To: Sent: Tuesday, March 20, 2001 6:36 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: WOLF - am I missing something ? > > Hi Guys, > I have been rather quiet lately due to work pressure. The job that I have > been asked to do has required me to get up to speed on the latest 32-bit > Windows SDK and DDKs. > You would not believe how complicated it has now become! I have piles and > piles of CDs from Microsoft. > For Amateurs (i.e. non-paid professionals, who cannot afford the degree of > investment required) I would recommend steering away from Windows (perhaps > to Linux?). I have a distinct feeling that Microsoft is a latter-day Pied > Piper. > We were taught to apply a principle known as KISS. The latest Windows looks > more like the kiss of death for software productivity. > 73, John, G4CNN It was suggested recently that, instead of Microsoft being dismembered they should be required to fix the bugs in their current product range. (but doesn't the US constitution forbid cruel and unusual punishment?) 73 de John Rabson G3PAI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1005 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 22:14:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 22:14:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 27750 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 22:14:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 22:14:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fUKT-0005Wb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:10:13 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fUKS-0005WW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:10:12 +0000 Received: from [213.122.226.44] (helo=presario1920) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14fUK6-0002rz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:09:50 +0000 From: "John W Gould" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Transatlantic Challenge: the Canadian / Europe contacts Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 22:12:23 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-reply-to: <5.0.2.1.2.20010315081027.00a96140@mail.pncl.co.uk> Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I guess I've been working too much ...... John G3WKL -----Original Message----- From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf Of Walter Blanchard Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 08:13 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic Challenge: the Canadian / Europe contacts At 21:43 14/03/01 Wednesday, John Gould wrote: >............................(once and if the FAA agree to licence the band >for amateur usage in the USA). Apart from congratulating all concerned, I hope you meant the FCC. The Federal Aviation Authority might take a very long time dealing with a ham radio matter!! Walter G3JKV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24358 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 21:17:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 21:17:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 6541 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 21:17:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 21:17:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fTNS-0005AR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 21:09:14 +0000 Received: from imo-r16.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.70]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fTNO-0005AJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 21:09:10 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-r16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.e8.121dea87 (17526) for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:08:06 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:08:06 EST Subject: LF: TECH: Loran signals received in AM as audio reference ? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------040100070809080003050406" X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 217 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040100070809080003050406 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello group,

I just thought about an audio frequency reference for all who don't have an
accurate audio reference but a longwave receiver (like myself..)
In one of his recent postings Jim 'BMU explained why such a reference is
required for the WOLF experiments. There MAY (!) be an easy solution to this,
maybe the experts can help to verify the following.

Here is what to do:
1.) Tune the LF RX to 100.00 kHz and set the receiver to AM (not SSB !)
    You should hear Loran's sharp "clicketiclick" sound in the receiver.
    The "clicketiclick" is a mixture of a lot of many audio frequencies,
    and because we are using an AM RX the frequencies do NOT depend
    on the accuracy of the VFO in the receiver (crude explanation...)
2.) Record a spectrogram with ARGO, SpecLab or whatever you use.
    Use a  high resolution, at least 0.01 Hz  (the attached screenshot,
    LORAN_AM.JPG, has 0.002 Hz resolution and took 6 minutes).
3.) Look at the audio frequencies close to 1kHz. There are lines visible at
       999.85 Hz
       999.96 Hz
     1000.00 Hz
     1000.13 Hz  (the strongest in the range 999 - 1001 Hz)
Note: The spectrum has been recorded in the midwestern part of DL (JO42FD),
and the amplitude of the spectra may be different in other parts of Europe
but the lines should be detectable everywhere.

I think this could be a way to verify the accuracy of ANY audio recording
tool (for the last fractions of a Hertz), no matter if a soundcard, DSP,
PIC-based converter or whatever is used.

There has been a list of Loran frequencies on this reflector a few months ago
(sh.., I didn't save it). Maybe one of the experts can calculate the accurate
frequencies contained in an AM-received Loran signal on 100kHz, or one of the
lucky fellows with a high-precision audio source can repeat the experiment
described above to check the results.

Thanks,
  73 from Wolf (DL4YHF).




   
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g/rXbUVax2IU+dS19F/kLlRxMvw3llYk3N2M/wDUNk/xpkfwyeMEC5u+Tn/kGSf413NFDx2I cuZy19F/kHKjH8I+GZvDdsLTNzOpllmaWS0eIKDCVxzx1A7962KKK5G7u7KP/9k= --------------040100070809080003050406-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18728 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 20:13:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 20:13:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 11952 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 20:13:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 20:13:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fSOH-0004if-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 20:06:01 +0000 Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fSOF-0004ia-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 20:06:00 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.178.98]) by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010320200531.GCFS15034419.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Wed, 21 Mar 2001 08:05:31 +1200 Message-ID: <00d501c0b179$252959c0$62b21bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20010320161213.2b1f2852@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <3AB77A23.971D3F4E@usa.net> Subject: LF: Re: Re: WOLF - am I missing something ? Date: Wed, 21 Mar 2001 07:56:47 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > > Unfortunately the Windows designers decided that they were next in line > > after God and that the simple guys writing software had no longer the right > > to access all these 'goodies' ... > > Your knowledge of the mind attitude of the Windows designers is very approximate. > They never thought, never for a while, that God was before them.... Windows inevitabley involves several panes. 73, Bob From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28482 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 19:39:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 19:39:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 12491 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 19:39:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 19:39:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fRuw-0004WE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 19:35:42 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [193.96.224.45] (helo=mail1.isys.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fRuv-0004W9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 19:35:41 +0000 Received: from [195.64.98.17] (helo=k) by mail1.isys.net with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14fRuW-0007ul-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 20:35:16 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Klaus von der Heide" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 20:41:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Re: RE PICs and DDS etc. In-reply-to: <3AB79B46.A233F226@usa.net> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12b) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Alberto, hello all, > I thought again and, yes, the high order bit of the phase accumulator is not > the squared up version of the sine output, but, after the phase accumulator, > a DDS has a sine lookup ROM. What I really meant was the high order > bit of the output of this ROM. Using this bit, I feel confident to state again > that you don't need a DAC to generate a square wave of the wanted frequency. > > With the AD9850 you have to use the comparator, as you do not have external > access to the output of the sine ROM. > You are right saying that a PIC probably doesn't have enough horse power > for this task. Maybe some chips of the Scenic family ??? The problem is the discrete time the DDS uses. The high order bit only changes at the clock edges. The result is a square wave with heavy phase jitter. For example, draw a sine wave (3 waves), sample it at about 8/3 of its frequency in your sketch, and generate the square wave from these sample values (all on the paper). The one-periods and the zero-periods then are one or two clock cycles long. That's what Andy in other words already said. If a DAC is used then time is continuous and a clean square wave can be obtained. 73 de Klaus, DJ5HG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2565 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 18:46:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 18:46:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 24711 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 18:45:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 18:45:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fR2O-0004DN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:39:20 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fR2N-0004DI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:39:19 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14fR1z-00060L-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:38:55 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <21133.200103201838@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:43:38 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: DOS/Windows and PC clocks X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Although it may be possible to access the PC's internal clocks one way or another, I can't see it would be much help for timing accuracy - after all, it's all derrived from a very ordinary, un- trimmed crystal on the motherboard somewhere. I did some work at U of H a while ago with Dave Lauder, G0SNO, investigating PC clocks. In fact, a lot of PCs (and other things) are now using 'dithered clocks', where the clock is frequency modulated to a deviation of a fraction of a percent, by a spiky looking triangle wave. The reason for doing this is to spread radiated noise emissions from the PC over a wider range of frequencies, which in turn reduces the noise power seen by a narrow band EMC receiver when noise emissions testing is being performed. This slightly perverse idea is basically a fiddle to allow PC's to generate more RF noise, while still passing the EMC regulations. It saves the manufacturers some money on screening and filter components. I'm sure it does not do much for timing accuracy, though! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24316 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 18:46:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 18:46:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 25576 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 18:46:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 18:46:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fR0n-000494-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:37:41 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fortune-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.203] helo=fortune.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fR0l-00048z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:37:40 +0000 Received: from zero.excite.com ([199.172.152.241]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010320183644.DZGN17987.fortune.excite.com@zero.excite.com> for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:36:44 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <7677381.985113404895.JavaMail.imail@zero.excite.com> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:36:33 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: WOLF - am I missing something ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 62.253.64.5 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Guys, I have been rather quiet lately due to work pressure. The job that I have been asked to do has required me to get up to speed on the latest 32-bit Windows SDK and DDKs. You would not believe how complicated it has now become! I have piles and piles of CDs from Microsoft. For Amateurs (i.e. non-paid professionals, who cannot afford the degree of investment required) I would recommend steering away from Windows (perhaps to Linux?). I have a distinct feeling that Microsoft is a latter-day Pied Piper. We were taught to apply a principle known as KISS. The latest Windows looks more like the kiss of death for software productivity. 73, John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27398 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 18:11:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 18:11:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 20612 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 18:11:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 18:11:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fQXD-0003ws-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:07:07 +0000 Received: from imo-r16.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.70]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fQXA-0003wf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:07:05 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-r16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.72.8cd73c8 (4258) for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:06:01 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <72.8cd73c8.27e8f609@aol.com> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:06:01 EST Subject: Re: LF: DFCW To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Disposition: Inline X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 217 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Rik and others,

Rik wrote
> 1. Using DCF77 (or similar) and the appropriate software (such as provided
> by DL4YHF) one can set the PC clock with a 1/10 second accuracy.
> Even by
> setting the PC clock by hand an accuracy of better than 1 second can be
> achieved. So the PC's at both sides (TX and RX) can have their clock
> 'synchronized' at 1 second or better.

Well, the DCF77 decoder was a nice experiment, but not too much more than
that.
The problem is, PC clocks (though called 'Real Time Clocks') can be quite
bad, much worse than the cheapest wristwatch you can buy in a coffee-store.
So setting the clock for an accuracy of 0.1 sec or better only lasts for a
few MINUTES (!) on some nasty PCs (like the one I have to use sometimes).
What really helps would be a GPS (costly, only works if satellites visible)
or a cheap DCF receiver connected to the serial port (if not already occupied
by mouse, modem, PIC, TRX control, DSP board etc etc).
You have to readjust the clock continously, if you want 'reliable' second
markers for recording intervals of an hour or so. A possible workaround would
be using the soundcards "calibrated" sample rate as a timebase.

I once implemented such "time marker lines" in Spectrum Lab (configurable
from 1 sec per line to several minutes) but that feature seems to be hidden
too deep in the configuration dialog hi. Anyway, you may try it to check how
fast the PC clock 'runs away' from the DCF-signal observed with a fast
scrolling waterfall (by the way, a nice experiment comparing the clock pulses
from DCF and MSF).

Sorry abt my latest posting - it has a redundancy of exactly 100 percent !

73's Wolf.




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23298 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 18:08:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 18:08:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 8270 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 18:08:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 18:08:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fQUI-0003wU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:04:06 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fQUH-0003wP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:04:05 +0000 Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.COM (1.0.0) with ESMTP id RAA158386 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:46:52 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (dyn9-87-105-37.italy.ibm.com [9.87.105.37]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id SAA60564 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:03:08 GMT Message-ID: <3AB79B46.A233F226@usa.net> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 19:02:46 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: RE PICs and DDS etc. References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03E7@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > NO Think again, the high order bit of a DDS output is very definitely > not a squared up version of the fundamental ! Used on its own it would > have a spectrum not totally unlike noise. I thought again and, yes, the high order bit of the phase accumulator is not the squared up version of the sine output, but, after the phase accumulator, a DDS has a sine lookup ROM. What I really meant was the high order bit of the output of this ROM. Using this bit, I feel confident to state again that you don't need a DAC to generate a square wave of the wanted frequency. With the AD9850 you have to use the comparator, as you do not have external access to the output of the sine ROM. You are right saying that a PIC probably doesn't have enough horse power for this task. Maybe some chips of the Scenic family ??? And, while the AD983x may be inexpensive, they are nevertheless SMD devices, not particularly easy to solder (what an understatement...!) 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5078 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 18:06:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 18:06:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 4006 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 18:06:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 18:06:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fQSu-0003wN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:02:40 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fQSs-0003wI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:02:39 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.83.10]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:01:08 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AB80F90.68E62ECE@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 18:18:58 -0800 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: DFCW References: <3.0.1.16.20010320155747.2b1f164c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <3AB7787E.B8F6AD37@usa.net> <003501c0b157$80775830$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: What the heck is a mudball/ John VE1ZJ Larry Kayser wrote: > Greetings All: > > > > 3. If Alberto could adapt ARGO and let the 'time markers' also appear on > > > exact multiples of 30 seconds (or 1 minute etc..) and eventually replace > > > the 'time ticks' at the bottom by thin vertical lines (over the entire > > > window) then the RX would also have the required 'time synchronisation' > : > > > 'key up' or 'key down' of the TX would be at the same time when a 'time > > > marker' appears on the ARGO screen. > > Well if your going this far why not ad real time as an optional alternative? > Connect the INVERTED 1 PPS output from a GPS receiver to the RI line in > RS232 and use the RI interrupt to make the timing coherent to a rather > excellent and free standard available everywhere on this mudball. > > RI (Ring Indicate) is available on dB-25 Pin 22, and DB-9 Pin 9. > > Larry > VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9041 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 17:32:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 17:32:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 23387 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 17:32:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 17:32:05 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fPuc-0003ju-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:27:14 +0000 Received: from imo-m07.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.162]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fPub-0003jp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:27:13 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-m07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.69.12bf83ae (24901) for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:26:11 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <69.12bf83ae.27e8ecb2@aol.com> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:26:10 EST Subject: TECH: Re^2: LF: WOLF - am I missing something ? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Disposition: Inline X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 217 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi  Andy,  Rik, and others,

A kind of "microtimer" is still there, no matter if you write your programs
in Delphi, C++Builder or any of Microstuff's Visual something.
The routine is called "QueryPerformanceCounter", it returns a 32 bit integer
value of a 'hardware timer' which ticks with a certain frequency ("ticks per
second"). The frequency of this timer can be detected by calling
"QueryPerformanceFrequency", it returns a value 1193180 which may sound
familiar to many DOS freaks. In fact, this timer seems to be clocked by the
1.193 MHz counter which was already present in the very first IBM PC.

Apart from that, I totally agree with your comments about DOS vs Windows.
Most of the REAL goodies are not acessable, or only with extreme 'red tape'
(thinking about soundards, interrupts, I/O-ports  - sigh !)

73, Wolf DL4YHF.




From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14615 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 16:44:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 16:44:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 21110 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 16:44:16 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 16:44:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fP8N-0003NM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:37:23 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fP8M-0003NH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:37:22 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA108636 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:36:56 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010320173630.2b1fcf8e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:36:30 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: DFCW In-reply-to: <003501c0b157$80775830$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> References: <3.0.1.16.20010320155747.2b1f164c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <3AB7787E.B8F6AD37@usa.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Larry, That would be good to use 'time synchronized' DFCW (or QRSS) at higher speeds (well ... 'high' means 3 sec./dot or so). But for 30 sec./dot the internal PC clock (if set correct) will do the job. But if there is any interest to use a GPS receiver (or any other timer source) for synchronisation I am willing to see if I can adapt QRS. 73, Rik ON7YD At 11:04 20/03/01 -0500, you wrote: >Greetings All: > >> > 3. If Alberto could adapt ARGO and let the 'time markers' also appear on >> > exact multiples of 30 seconds (or 1 minute etc..) and eventually replace >> > the 'time ticks' at the bottom by thin vertical lines (over the entire >> > window) then the RX would also have the required 'time synchronisation' >: >> > 'key up' or 'key down' of the TX would be at the same time when a 'time >> > marker' appears on the ARGO screen. > >Well if your going this far why not ad real time as an optional alternative? >Connect the INVERTED 1 PPS output from a GPS receiver to the RI line in >RS232 and use the RI interrupt to make the timing coherent to a rather >excellent and free standard available everywhere on this mudball. > >RI (Ring Indicate) is available on dB-25 Pin 22, and DB-9 Pin 9. > >Larry >VA3LK > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2222 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 16:20:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 16:20:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 3943 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 16:19:45 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 16:19:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fOlB-0003Ff-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:13:25 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fOlA-0003Fa-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:13:24 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA185166 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:13:01 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010320171236.2b1f9e62@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 17:12:36 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: WOLF - am I missing something ? In-reply-to: <3AB77304.B462970E@usa.net> References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03E6@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alberto, I do some PIC programming, if you give me some more details about what you want to be done I will can give it a try. About direct output on 137kHz, a PIC can run up to 0.2us clock (5MHz), so whatever you want do do, you have only abt. 35 clock cycles. Fortunately PIC works with RISC commands so most commands take only 1 cycle ('jumps' take 2 cycles. 73, Rik ON7YD At 16:11 20/03/01 +0100, you wrote: >> Then I abandonned software >> timing by using an external interface (a PIC) on the serial port and >> ended up with something very similar to the VE2IQ I/F. >> > >A few days ago I was thinking on how to generate a programmable >frequency for an MFSK scheme (I did post a message on this reflector), >and the DDS was one the possibilities. Thinking again at it, after all we just >need the high order bit of the phase accumulator, as the TX is driven with a >square wave. This makes the DAC completely unnecessary. >Would it be possible then to implement a 32-bit phase accumulator with >a PIC, to generate a frequency on the 137 kHz band ? >My knowledge of PICs is quite limited, any PIC guru with an answer ? >If positive, then it would be possible to make a really inexpensive outboard >generator for such an MFSK modulation scheme. > >73 Alberto I2PHD > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25828 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 16:15:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 16:15:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 25153 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 16:15:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 16:15:01 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fOgH-0003EF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:08:21 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fOgF-0003Db-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:08:20 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id QAA28941; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:10:41 GMT Received: (qmail 18616 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 16:59:14 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 16:59:14 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id QAA03408; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:46:02 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma003330; Tue, 20 Mar 01 16:45:47 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:13:16 +0000 Received: by frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:07:37 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03E7@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE PICs and DDS etc. Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:07:36 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: NO Think again, the high order bit of a DDS output is very definitely not a squared up version of the fundamental ! Used on its own it would have a spectrum not totally unlike noise. Before the DDS output anti-allias filter, for a given output frequency all terms of Fclock +/- Fout are present, as sampled sinewaves with a SIN(X) / X amplitude roll-off. Also present is what effectively is quantising noise (Nq) . The level of this Nq is given approximately by 6.N dBc, so for a 12 Bit D/A in the DDS (as in the AD9850), Nq can only be 72 dB down at most. In fact the manufacturers clain about 65dBc to play safe. Just using the MSB gives 1 bit quantisation so spurious products will be at 0 - 6dBc. To generate a square wave, you have to generate a proper sinewaveform, low pass filter and feed back into a high speed comparator. The AD9850 has such a comparator built in and all you have to supply is a Clock, command word and output filter. I once looked at using a PIC plus external D/A for a low speed DDS, and for audio freqs it could be done, but again with spurious limitiations. Assuming 8 bit arithmetic - any more would slow it down considerably and you do need a sine look up table with this resolution as well - the output could only manage around -40dB spurious and determining timing would be a horrendous programming job. A 32 bit accumulator with the attendant maths all within a critical timing loop. For MFSK, why not just use a DDS chip / module and send it commands to set the frequency. Some of the the now obsolete DDS chips such as AD9831 and AD9832 can cost not much more than a PIC . Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: Alberto di Bene [mailto:dibene@usa.net] > Sent: 2001-03-20 15:11 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: Re: WOLF - am I missing something ? > > > > Then I abandonned software > > timing by using an external interface (a PIC) on the serial port and > > ended up with something very similar to the VE2IQ I/F. > > > > A few days ago I was thinking on how to generate a programmable > frequency for an MFSK scheme (I did post a message on this reflector), > and the DDS was one the possibilities. Thinking again at it, > after all we just > need the high order bit of the phase accumulator, as the TX > is driven with a > square wave. This makes the DAC completely unnecessary. > Would it be possible then to implement a 32-bit phase accumulator with > a PIC, to generate a frequency on the 137 kHz band ? > My knowledge of PICs is quite limited, any PIC guru with an answer ? > If positive, then it would be possible to make a really > inexpensive outboard > generator for such an MFSK modulation scheme. > > 73 Alberto I2PHD > > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27160 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 16:11:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 16:11:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 24848 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 16:11:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 16:11:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fOdp-00039j-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:05:49 +0000 Received: from tomts5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.25] helo=tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fOdo-00039c-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:05:49 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.209.110.35]) by tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010320160442.XPD1684.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:04:42 -0500 Message-ID: <003501c0b157$80775830$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20010320155747.2b1f164c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <3AB7787E.B8F6AD37@usa.net> Subject: LF: Re: Re: DFCW Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:04:48 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings All: > > 3. If Alberto could adapt ARGO and let the 'time markers' also appear on > > exact multiples of 30 seconds (or 1 minute etc..) and eventually replace > > the 'time ticks' at the bottom by thin vertical lines (over the entire > > window) then the RX would also have the required 'time synchronisation' : > > 'key up' or 'key down' of the TX would be at the same time when a 'time > > marker' appears on the ARGO screen. Well if your going this far why not ad real time as an optional alternative? Connect the INVERTED 1 PPS output from a GPS receiver to the RI line in RS232 and use the RI interrupt to make the timing coherent to a rather excellent and free standard available everywhere on this mudball. RI (Ring Indicate) is available on dB-25 Pin 22, and DB-9 Pin 9. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15925 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 16:09:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 16:09:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 15235 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 16:09:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 16:09:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fObO-00039W-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:03:18 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fObL-00039R-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:03:16 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14fOau-0002Z1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:02:48 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <9881.200103201602@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:07:37 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Wolf Tests X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Thanks for the reports and comments. Some pointers to receiving WOLF mode BPSK- The receive audio must be recorded at 8000 samples/sec., mono. DL4YHF's Spectrum Lab can do this, and generate a spectrogram at the same time. WOLF can operate on up to about 25mins of sampled data; at about 1 megabyte per minute, the files are quite large. With a good SNR, only a few minutes recording is required, but more data is needed for low SNR. In order to decode successfully, 3 parameters need to be set up correctly: -The level: The signal must be about 20-40dB down on the full scale level of the soundcard- WOLF simply does not work properly with a strong signal. If everything else is OK, what you see is that the first 3 lines of output are correct, but the rest is gibberish. The low level can be achieved by reducing the RX gain, or post-editing with sound recorder software. If the signal is down in the noise, KK7KA says you should set the level so that the noise peaks are 6dB below full scale. - The soundcard sampling rate correction (-r switch); The frequency error due to the soundcard is often the biggest frequency error in the whole system (about 4.5Hz in my case). It varies with the particular soundcard, and the particular sample rate it is set to. It also upsets the timing of the decoding process. One way to determine the actual sample rate is to inject an accurately known audio frequency into the sound card, and measure the apparent frequency using the Wolf -m option; the sample rate is then (8000 x real frequency)/apparent frequency. Once determined, the correction seems to be stable. KK7KA describes the neccessary accuracy as being in the parts per million range for optimum performance, ie you are aiming for better than 0.1 samples/second accuracy. -The frequency offset (-f switch): This corrects for frequency errors in TX and/or RX tuning; it can be determined by receiving a signal of known frequency, and measuring the received audio frequency using the Wolf -m option again. This is perhaps less critical than the soundcard sampling rate error; about 0.1Hz or so is tolerable. The obvious problem is how to determine the soundcard error, if you don't have a accurate audio frequency source. I used the reference output of my synthesiser divided doown to 1kHz (and filtered; a fairly clean sine wave seemed to be neccessary to avoid aliasing problems with the soundcard). You could use the RX audio out, but only if you knew what the RX frequency error was to within a small fraction of a Hz. The effect of having the wrong sampling rate is that the first few lines of decoding work OK, but after that you get gobbledygook, so trial and error is a possible, if time consuming method. I think a technique where you measure the difference between two audio output frequencies might work OK, but this needs some further work to check it out. All this is a bit of a pain, but once completed, Wolf seems to work straight away all the time. I'm not sure about the effects of QRM on this signal - obviously, it has been designed to work with low SNR, but does it's performance with gaussian noise also apply to QRM such as carriers, or pulsed waveforms like mains noise and Loran? I intend to run some more tests this evening, starting about 2000utc, at about the 30mW ERP level for an hour or so. Later , I will be running the full 1W ERP for possible transatlantic reception, between at least 0000 - 0200utc. As before frequency will be 137.500kHz. If anyone would like a different frequency, power level, time etc. please let me know. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26253 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 15:55:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 15:55:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 21945 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 15:55:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 15:55:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fOK3-00031c-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:45:23 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d12lmsgate-2.de.ibm.com ([195.212.91.200]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fOK2-00031T-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:45:22 +0000 Received: from d12relay02.de.ibm.com (d12relay02.de.ibm.com [9.165.215.23]) by d12lmsgate-2.de.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id QAA73526 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:41:47 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (dyn9-87-105-37.italy.ibm.com [9.87.105.37]) by d12relay02.de.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id QAA76784 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:39:26 +0100 Message-ID: <3AB77A23.971D3F4E@usa.net> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:41:23 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: WOLF - am I missing something ? References: <3.0.1.16.20010320161213.2b1f2852@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Unfortunately the Windows designers decided that they were next in line > after God and that the simple guys writing software had no longer the right > to access all these 'goodies' ... Your knowledge of the mind attitude of the Windows designers is very approximate. They never thought, never for a while, that God was before them.... 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11517 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 15:42:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 15:42:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 27075 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 15:41:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 15:41:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fOAo-0002wN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:35:51 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d12lmsgate.de.ibm.com ([195.212.91.199]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fOAl-0002wG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:35:50 +0000 Received: from d12relay02.de.ibm.com (d12relay02.de.ibm.com [9.165.215.23]) by d12lmsgate.de.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id QAA67042 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:34:44 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (dyn9-87-105-37.italy.ibm.com [9.87.105.37]) by d12relay02.de.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id QAA43026 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:32:24 +0100 Message-ID: <3AB7787E.B8F6AD37@usa.net> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:34:22 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: DFCW References: <3.0.1.16.20010320155747.2b1f164c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik Strobbe wrote: > [snip] > 3. If Alberto could adapt ARGO and let the 'time markers' also appear on > exact multiples of 30 seconds (or 1 minute etc..) and eventually replace > the 'time ticks' at the bottom by thin vertical lines (over the entire > window) then the RX would also have the required 'time synchronisation' : > 'key up' or 'key down' of the TX would be at the same time when a 'time > marker' appears on the ARGO screen. > [snip] I can make this a customizable option. I have build 127 in the works and will add this requirement. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8474 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 15:19:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 15:19:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 16772 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 15:19:17 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 15:19:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fNoj-0002ov-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:13:01 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fNoi-0002oq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:13:00 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA213412 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:12:38 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010320161213.2b1f2852@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:12:13 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: RE: Re: WOLF - am I missing something ? In-reply-to: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03E6@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov .uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Andy, In the 'dark ages' of DOS it was possible to 'reprogram' the DOS Hartbeat interrupt to much shorter times (you had to take care of the timekeeping yourself). This timer was very accurate and with a 40MHz 386 it was possible to have an accurate timer at 20us intervals or so ... Also direct acces of interrupts, serial and parallel ports etc... was 'peanuts' once you figured it out. Unfortunately the Windows designers decided that they were next in line after God and that the simple guys writing software had no longer the right to access all these 'goodies' ... (Break down the fences and we don't need Gates ...) 73, Rik At 14:20 20/03/01 -0000, you wrote: >PowerBasic (the language I use) does incorporate a "microtimer" >instruction for measuring time to 1us so something has always been >available in the underlying hardware in the PC, via the same timer >chip that generates sounds from the PC speaker. > >However, it becomes inaccurate for intervals > 55ms as the timing >function get messed up by the DOS Heartbeat interrupt at 18.2Hz. Also >(at least in PBasic) it cannot be used to set a delay, only for >measuring an interval. Back in the Dark Ages, I used a FOR / NEXT >loop with a fixed count, accurately timed this using the microtimer, >then generated a calibration factor for subsequently using in the loop >to generate software timings. Once again this was upset every 55ms, >but did work satisfactorily with a Pico Products 8 bit A/D on the >printer port for first forays into DSP. Then I abandonned software >timing by using an external interface (a PIC) on the serial port and >ended up with something very similar to the VE2IQ I/F. > >Andy G4JNT > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Alberto di Bene [mailto:dibene@usa.net] >> Sent: 2001-03-20 13:36 >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> Subject: LF: Re: WOLF - am I missing something ? >> >> >> > We all have to accept that doing any sort of accurate >> timing operation >> > on a PC is futile - whether Soundacard, serial port or, >> even worse, by >> > software timing. Therefore some sort of external interface really >> > should be used to resynchronise Tx and Rx data samples . >> >> Hmm, perhaps not all is lost. The Pentium II class CPUs and >> the Athlons >> do have the so-called Performance Timer, an hardware timer >> that can be queried through Windoze APIs, with resolution >> around 1 usec. >> >> This however would rule out old Pentiums, 486 and the AMD K6, which do >> not have that counter. >> >> 73 Alberto I2PHD >> >> >> > > >-- >The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence >is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). >For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, >or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is >prohibited and may be unlawful. > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8132 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 15:19:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 15:19:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 7017 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 15:19:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 15:19:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fNoI-0002oo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:12:34 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d12lmsgate-2.de.ibm.com ([195.212.91.200]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fNoG-0002ob-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:12:33 +0000 Received: from d12relay02.de.ibm.com (d12relay02.de.ibm.com [9.165.215.23]) by d12lmsgate-2.de.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id QAA45658 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:11:23 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (dyn9-87-105-37.italy.ibm.com [9.87.105.37]) by d12relay02.de.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id QAA64464 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:09:02 +0100 Message-ID: <3AB77304.B462970E@usa.net> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 16:11:00 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: WOLF - am I missing something ? References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03E6@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Then I abandonned software > timing by using an external interface (a PIC) on the serial port and > ended up with something very similar to the VE2IQ I/F. > A few days ago I was thinking on how to generate a programmable frequency for an MFSK scheme (I did post a message on this reflector), and the DDS was one the possibilities. Thinking again at it, after all we just need the high order bit of the phase accumulator, as the TX is driven with a square wave. This makes the DAC completely unnecessary. Would it be possible then to implement a 32-bit phase accumulator with a PIC, to generate a frequency on the 137 kHz band ? My knowledge of PICs is quite limited, any PIC guru with an answer ? If positive, then it would be possible to make a really inexpensive outboard generator for such an MFSK modulation scheme. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24825 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 15:05:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 15:05:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 24446 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 15:05:23 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 15:05:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fNan-0002hF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:58:37 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fNal-0002hA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:58:35 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA09632 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:58:13 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010320155747.2b1f164c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:57:47 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: DFCW In-reply-to: <001d01c0b146$a6dcf720$9628893e@g3aqc> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 14:03 20/03/01 -0000, G3AQC wrote: >I experimented last night with slightly shorter dots- 25secs rather than my >usual 30. This reduced my total message time (for three repeats of G3AQC) from >56mins to44mins,including CW ident. I want to get shorter times without >reducing readability and both Rik and Alberto are helping with this. I think >DFCW is the most effective of the simpler techniques and well worth >developing. Last nights results are very encouraging. Hello group, Laurie had been busy in 'time optimizing' DFCW, mainly by reducing the 'idle' gaps. At the very slow speeds used these days for TA tests one can indeed win a fair ammount of time by avoiding idle times. The main function of the DFCW gaps is to improve the readability of DFCW in case of a series of dashes or dots. Or otherwise said, it is some kind of 'time synchronisation'. This 'time synchonisation' has proven to be usefull, mainly for the reason that at the RX side you otherwise had to guess when a dot or dash started and stopped. If the RX would know at what times the TX was keying this gaps wouldn't be nessecary ... At the dot lengths used in recent TA tests (30 to 120 seconds) it shouldn't be so difficult to get sufficient 'time synchronisation' between TX and RX : 1. Using DCF77 (or similar) and the appropriate software (such as provided by DL4YHF) one can set the PC clock with a 1/10 second accuracy. Even by setting the PC clock by hand an accuracy of better than 1 second can be achieved. So the PC's at both sides (TX and RX) can have their clock 'synchronized' at 1 second or better. 2. QRS (v3.05) allows you start keying on exact multiples of 30 seconds (or 1 minute, 2 minutes, 5 minutes etc...). Of course this only makes sense if you set the dotlength also at 30 seconds (or 1 minute etc..). So the TX can be 'time synchronized'. 3. If Alberto could adapt ARGO and let the 'time markers' also appear on exact multiples of 30 seconds (or 1 minute etc..) and eventually replace the 'time ticks' at the bottom by thin vertical lines (over the entire window) then the RX would also have the required 'time synchronisation' : 'key up' or 'key down' of the TX would be at the same time when a 'time marker' appears on the ARGO screen. Result : no more need for time gaps (what should be a 20-25% time saving). 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24197 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 15:05:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 15:05:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 23924 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 15:04:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 15:04:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fNb4-0002hP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:58:54 +0000 Received: from chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fNb3-0002hK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:58:53 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-18-21.easynet.co.uk [212.134.224.21]) by chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 1B015F8834 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:58:20 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000a01c0b14e$f0daa400$15e086d4@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4736.200103191732@gemini> <3.0.1.16.20010320095838.2dbff988@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: LF: WOLF Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 11:02:42 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Rik > >I downloaded Wolf but it would not run on any of the systems I have (DOS, > >Win 3.11 and Win98). So unable to progress. > I run WOLF under Win98. Try to open an MS-DOS window and start WOLF from > there. Thanks. Yes that did the trick. I must get the .wav file and see how it goes. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4165 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 14:30:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 14:30:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 18804 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 14:30:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 14:30:03 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fN2C-0002RW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:22:52 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fN2A-0002RR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:22:51 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id OAA27707; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:25:12 GMT Received: (qmail 821 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 15:13:45 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 15:13:45 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id PAA09754; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 15:00:33 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma009644; Tue, 20 Mar 01 15:00:15 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:26:28 +0000 Received: by frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:20:50 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03E6@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re: WOLF - am I missing something ? Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:20:40 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: PowerBasic (the language I use) does incorporate a "microtimer" instruction for measuring time to 1us so something has always been available in the underlying hardware in the PC, via the same timer chip that generates sounds from the PC speaker. However, it becomes inaccurate for intervals > 55ms as the timing function get messed up by the DOS Heartbeat interrupt at 18.2Hz. Also (at least in PBasic) it cannot be used to set a delay, only for measuring an interval. Back in the Dark Ages, I used a FOR / NEXT loop with a fixed count, accurately timed this using the microtimer, then generated a calibration factor for subsequently using in the loop to generate software timings. Once again this was upset every 55ms, but did work satisfactorily with a Pico Products 8 bit A/D on the printer port for first forays into DSP. Then I abandonned software timing by using an external interface (a PIC) on the serial port and ended up with something very similar to the VE2IQ I/F. Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: Alberto di Bene [mailto:dibene@usa.net] > Sent: 2001-03-20 13:36 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: Re: WOLF - am I missing something ? > > > > We all have to accept that doing any sort of accurate > timing operation > > on a PC is futile - whether Soundacard, serial port or, > even worse, by > > software timing. Therefore some sort of external interface really > > should be used to resynchronise Tx and Rx data samples . > > Hmm, perhaps not all is lost. The Pentium II class CPUs and > the Athlons > do have the so-called Performance Timer, an hardware timer > that can be queried through Windoze APIs, with resolution > around 1 usec. > > This however would rule out old Pentiums, 486 and the AMD K6, which do > not have that counter. > > 73 Alberto I2PHD > > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15996 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 14:11:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 14:11:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 21863 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 14:11:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 14:11:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fMkv-0002LY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:05:01 +0000 Received: from cmailg5.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.175]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fMkt-0002LT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:04:59 +0000 Received: from modem-22.monkeyface-eel.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.40.150] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg5.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14fMkV-00060X-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:04:35 +0000 Message-ID: <001d01c0b146$a6dcf720$9628893e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. LF Tests Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:03:20 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi John,
Many thanks for your report. I was transmitting continuously from2130 until 0630utc.
I experimented last night with slightly shorter dots- 25secs
rather than my usual 30. This reduced my total message time (for three repeats of G3AQC) from 56mins to44mins,including CW ident. I want to get shorter times without reducing readability and both Rik and Alberto are helping with this.I think DFCW is the most effective of the simpler techniques and well worth developing.Last nights results are very encouraging. I will be there again tonight from
2130. 73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15072 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 13:48:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 13:48:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 6907 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 13:48:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 13:48:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fMKJ-000285-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:37:31 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06lmsgate-3.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fMKH-000280-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:37:30 +0000 Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by d06lmsgate-3.uk.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id NAA27916 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:27:41 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (dyn9-87-105-37.italy.ibm.com [9.87.105.37]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id NAA203146 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:36:25 GMT Message-ID: <3AB75CBE.49F5E71E@usa.net> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 14:35:58 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: WOLF - am I missing something ? References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03E5@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > We all have to accept that doing any sort of accurate timing operation > on a PC is futile - whether Soundacard, serial port or, even worse, by > software timing. Therefore some sort of external interface really > should be used to resynchronise Tx and Rx data samples . Hmm, perhaps not all is lost. The Pentium II class CPUs and the Athlons do have the so-called Performance Timer, an hardware timer that can be queried through Windoze APIs, with resolution around 1 usec. This however would rule out old Pentiums, 486 and the AMD K6, which do not have that counter. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20904 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 13:06:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 13:06:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 13973 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 13:06:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 13:06:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fLhi-0001v0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:57:38 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fLhh-0001uv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:57:37 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id NAA00315; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:00:01 GMT Received: (qmail 20507 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 13:48:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 13:48:34 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id NAA21679; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:35:23 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma021564; Tue, 20 Mar 01 13:34:46 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 13:01:54 +0000 Received: by frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:56:16 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03E5@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: "LF Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: WOLF - am I missing something ? Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:56:16 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
I've just been reading throught the documentation for Wolf and it all seems rather over complicated for an enhanced BPSK system - having to loop-play .WAV files through some kind of audio-RF interface.  Isn't there a way of using the VE2IQ interface(s) for Wolf ?  At one stroke this would remove all need for Soundcard and serial port data rates to be measured and calibration procedures.   
 
Reading the description it appears to be a 10b/s BPSK convolutionally encoded bitstream with FEC added.   This surely lends itself to soft descision decoding which presumably is how the software works.  But that is all software, the samples are in exactly the same form as used by Bill's system ?
 
We all have to accept that doing any sort of accurate timing operation on a PC is futile - whether Soundacard, serial port or, even worse, by software timing.   Therefore some sort of external interface really should be used to resynchronise Tx and Rx data samples.
 
Andy  G4JNT
 
 


--
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For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution,
or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is
prohibited and may be unlawful.
 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4219 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 12:53:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 12:53:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 20980 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 12:53:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 12:53:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fLXE-0001pT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:46:48 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fLXC-0001pO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:46:47 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:40:04 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:40:02 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: WOLF again Message-ID: <3AB74FA2.10064.B66776@localhost> In-reply-to: <000e01c0b12a$78868b00$1cce28c3@ericadodd> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3LDO wrote: > When I run WOLF under Win 98 for a split > second I get a small black window (similar to running DOS) but it > disappeared so fast I wasn't able to read it. By repeated running I found > that I hadn't included the .wav file (looking through the documentation, > belatedly!, I see this is necessary). Peter, the program is accessed via the "DOS" window, though it isn't a DOS application (confused? wait till you try to run the program!). This window tends to be hidden these days but try all the options from the START button until you find Command Prompt. > I also understand that only off-line processing on receive is available. > >From this I guess that what I should have done was to make a .wav file of > Jim's signal and process it later. In the presence of QSB this could make a > QSO a bit tricky. At present only a pre-recorded file can be analysed - but this is an advantage in these early stages because you can keep readjusting the numerous parameters and re-checking the same signal until you have it optimised. I would hope that eventually all of this will be automated so that the computer can do all of the tedious work for you. As for QSB, the whole point of WOLF is that it is better than QRSS in the presence of QSB. QRSS stretches the message over an hour or so which is fine so long as the signal stays up for long enough. WOLF, as I understand it, sends a fairly short message over and over again until it is received satisfactorily - in other words the integration is done in parallel, not in series {experts, please tell me if I have it wrong}. So you could take advantage of a 10 minute peak in conditions to pass the message rapidly (whereas QRSS would still be sending slowly), or conversely you can ignore deep QSB because the receiver will find the signal again later. > >From what I have read about WOLF it does appear to be a good system for > extracting data from weak signals buried in the noise and if the claims are > to be believed it has some dB improvement on QRSS systems. I am still skeptical, but Jim's reception in the USA at only his first attempt indicates that there are real possibilities when everything is optimised. > However, in my case very narrow band QRSS has the great advantage of being > able to work between the very strong Loran lines received here. QRSS and > Argo now has given us a system of the utmost simplicity, which encourages > lots of users. In addition it enables us to know what is going on around us > and the ability to read several stations at a time in a very narrow > bandwidth (a valuable asset in propagation studies). Loran is listed as one of the potential problems. However, it is suggested that a software comb filter can be produced, and that the Loran lines can even be used to maintain frequency accuracy. I agree that computer-only modes - as distinct from modes where the computer displays something the brain can interpret - leave the operator with a feeling of remoteness. I have already identified the problem that random QSOs will be almost impossible with WOLF. What would be useful would be to incorporate a spectrogram into any front-end software for WOLF. Thus you would be able to see what was going on, and perhaps someone looking for a WOLF QSO would send a string of 10s dashes (or Ws in QRSS?) before his transmission so that he could be identified and tuned to. The important thing, I feel, is to spend some time this summer evaluating and refining this software, and operating practices, so that it is useful next winter. For me, the ideal solution would be to have real-time WOLF, with an easy front-end, combined with the means to transmit and receive CW/QRSS/DFCW, all in one piece of software/hardware. This would avoid fragmenting the activity. It would also allow the best mode to be used for each set of circumstances. Thanks to all concerned in developing WOLF. I am sure it will become a more friendly application. I still remember the first QRSS reception using Spectrogram when you needed a stopwatch to time the dots and dashes as the display was only a few seconds wide. I'll bet the first HF SSB QSO was hard work, too. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 12:52:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 12:52:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 17615 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 12:52:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 12:52:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fLUI-0001pD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:43:46 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fLUH-0001p8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:43:45 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.104.111]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:42:45 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AB79746.7E947458@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 12:45:43 -0500 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: lf tests Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all I think last night the results from observing G3AQC 's signals were significant. Firstly the condx were terrible. At times DCF39 was as low as S-1. Typically it was S-2 toS-3. 128.9 had a max of S-4 typically S-3 The K index was a 4 at 0000z last nite and a 6 at 0900z . We had widespread Au propagation on 144 mHz in both Eu es NA. I had visible Aurora at 0833Z here. G3AQC was "M" or "O" copy for most of the time between 2222Z and 0300z There was nil from Laurie at 0330, butI thought I could see G3AQC at 0420"T" copy. I am not sure of the last statement Please tell me when you were transmitting last night Laurie. I wish we had had more experience with DFCW and 30 sec dots during the trials with Jack. This shows rhat even with very adverse condx less than 1/2 w erp can get across, a sign of great reliability. One strange thing. Last night , and on other occaisions when aurora was visible, I have listened to 128.9 and DCF39. The flutter heard on 160 and 80 and 40 has never been observed on LF 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22625 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 10:47:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 10:47:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 28858 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 10:47:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 10:47:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fJWS-00013h-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:37:52 +0000 Received: from hatfield.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.39]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fJWR-00013c-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:37:51 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-1-28.easynet.co.uk [195.40.206.28]) by hatfield.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5010B22E012 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:37:21 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000e01c0b12a$78868b00$1cce28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4736.200103191732@gemini> <000201c0b0c8$76567820$6fe086d4@ericadodd> <006e01c0b0e6$d26adfc0$687a37c0@w2ksn> Subject: LF: Re: WOLF BPSK Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:28:55 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Stewart > I don't have Win98 myself, but several users have run WOLF under > Win98 with no trouble. Please send me the failing console output, > or tell me what OS error message you are getting, and I'll try to > diagnose the problem. Thanks for the offer of help. When I run WOLF under Win 98 for a split second I get a small black window (similar to running DOS) but it disappeared so fast I wasn't able to read it. By repeated running I found that I hadn't included the .wav file (looking through the documentation, belatedly!, I see this is necessary). I also understand that only off-line processing on receive is available. >From this I guess that what I should have done was to make a .wav file of Jim's signal and process it later. In the presence of QSB this could make a QSO a bit tricky. >From what I have read about WOLF it does appear to be a good system for extracting data from weak signals buried in the noise and if the claims are to be believed it has some dB improvement on QRSS systems. However, in my case very narrow band QRSS has the great advantage of being able to work between the very strong Loran lines received here. QRSS and Argo now has given us a system of the utmost simplicity, which encourages lots of users. In addition it enables us to know what is going on around us and the ability to read several stations at a time in a very narrow bandwidth (a valuable asset in propagation studies). Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24647 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 10:31:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 10:31:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 7237 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 10:31:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 10:31:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fJKu-00012L-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:25:56 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fJKt-00012G-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:25:55 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:24:13 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:24:11 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: WOLF: Success and failure Message-ID: <3AB72FCB.11916.3A0834@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I tried out WOLF for the first time last night with total success. Jim was sending GY(^%? JGGF, followed by H(*^RCKO KKl, followed by . . . . OK, so it wasn't quite as successful as I would have liked. My first problem was finding the Command Prompt (pseudo DOS) on Windows ME. After 20 minutes, I located it under Programs, Accessories!! I then successfully generated a test signal (WAV file) and 'received' it 100% as per the instructions. So WOLF is easy after all. Now for the big test - real RF. Jim came up with his test transmission and I recorded it using Spectrogram but this didn't work. The problem seems to be that WOLF needs a sample rate of 8kb, and Spectrogram doesn't do this rate. An hour later, I used Cool Edit (a nice program) to generate a usable WAV file of Jim's signal. Several hours later I gave up, having failed to read anything at all from Jim. Possible causes: Jim's signal is very strong so possible sound card level problem. Also I may have been a long way off frequency (see below). Will test further tonight. Getting the correct audio frequency proved difficult and I only fixed it this morning after breakfast. I can use BBC 198kHz to calibrate Argo to measure a 136kHz signal to much better than 1Hz, but could not find an easy way of measuring 800Hz!! First I believed the Argo readout at 800Hz, but later tests showed this to be a long way out (this is not a complaint against Argo). I finally listened to DBF38 on AM and beat my DDS against it, then used the resultant 800Hz beat note to calibrate Argo. Later I found the offset facility on my IC-706. This sets the audio frequency for comfortable CW reception - normally about 400Hz. Setting this to 800Hz gave me 800Hz audio to within half a Hertz with the RF dial set to the correct frequency. Now why didn't I think of that in the first place? Some thoughts on WOLF: It looks very useful and I think it may well be the mode for the 2001/2002 DX season (though I will still run CW and QRSS). The command line is hard work and needs a lot of interpretation. I am sure there are programmers out there who could provide an easy display with 'switches' and 'dials', and some automation of the variables to optimise reception. Transmit is a bigger problem if you cannot generate high power SSB at 136kHz. Jim has cracked the problem with his Decca (Class D), and I look forward to him publishing his modulator circuit. His signal is VERY clean with me only a few km away. We will need to devise a protocol for QSOs. We will also need to find a way of having 'random' QSOs. At present the frequency must be known accurately in advance and monitored for a very long time. This is not viable if you don't know there is someone transmitting. I find WOLF fascinating and challenging, whilst - at least on receive - not needing huge amounts of work to get going. I hope Jim will continue his test transmissions to get more people set up. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13302 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 10:07:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 10:07:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 20246 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 10:07:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 10:07:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fIxF-0000n8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:01:29 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fIxE-0000n3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 10:01:28 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:47:56 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:47:54 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: lf transatlantic Message-ID: <3AB7274A.32636.18CFDE@localhost> In-reply-to: <3AB6D0EC.A73E4715@ns.sympatico.ca> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > My belief is that we will be able to get through even during > most of the summer. i would like to continue testing throughout > summer. I do not think we need to have continuous beaconing. Perhaps > 20 minutes at top of hour from Eu and 20 min at bottom of hour from NA . > My sunset now is around 2200Z so I don't start seeing Eu > stations til 2130Z So no point in starting before 2130Z. My sunset at > summer solstice will be around 2345z So starting time then of 2315Z > would be good . Is anybody interested in continuing through summer? > 73 all de John VE1ZJ I am happy to continue testing during the summer, but to save effort/electricity would it be useful to reduce all-night sessions to, say, one night a week? Whilst this would obviously reduce the scope for hitting optimum conditions, it would concentrate activity so that both sides could assume that someone was transmitting/listening. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24316 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 09:03:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 09:03:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 9678 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 09:03:51 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 09:03:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fHzD-0000Mb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:59:27 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fHzC-0000MW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:59:26 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA179500 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:59:04 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010320095838.2dbff988@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:58:38 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: WOLF BPSK tests tonight In-reply-to: <000201c0b0c8$76567820$6fe086d4@ericadodd> References: <4736.200103191732@gemini> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >I downloaded Wolf but it would not run on any of the systems I have (DOS, >Win 3.11 and Win98). So unable to progress. > >Regards, >Peter Dodd Hi Peter, I run WOLF under Win98. Try to open an MS-DOS window and start WOLF from there. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1369 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 08:48:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 08:48:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 1137 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 08:48:51 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 08:48:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fHkY-0000GQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:44:18 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fHkX-0000GL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 08:44:17 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA109560 for ; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:43:55 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010320094329.2dbf5db2@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 09:43:29 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: WOLF BPSK tests tonight In-reply-to: <4736.200103191732@gemini> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Jim, Sorry, I couldn't be QRV last night. Regarding power levels : On a second thought it is OK for me if you run high power for the TA test. I can reduce your SRN by receiving on a short piece of wire. If I keep the wire indoor the household electronics will provide sufficient noise. At a later stage it might be interesting to have a test sequence with reduced power level for inter-EU testing, eventually during daytime (weekend). Meanwhile it might be to know whe, beside Wolf end me, is equiped (and interested) in WOLF tests (in Europe). 73, Rik ON7YD At 17:37 19/03/01 +0000, you wrote: >Dear Wolf, Rik, LF Group, > >I will try some lower power WOLF BPSK tests tonight, starting >about 2000utc. Because different stations are experiencing widely >different signal levels, and since with weak signals the WOLF >software requires quite a long run of signal to successfully decode, >I will start off with big steps in power level every 20mins or so, so >we can determine roughly what levels will be interesting for future >tests. > >I will start at the 300mW ERP level, and reduce power in 10dB >steps - say 30mW, 3mW, 300uW. At each step change I will >transmit the CW station ID and the ERP level for the next period, >followed by 3 minutes of carrier for frequency checking, all >transmitted at full power. Then I will reduce the TX power level and >start sending BPSK, until the next station ID. The frequency will be >137.500kHz again. I will listen on the frequency afterwards if >anybody wants to call in CW about the tests. At some time >between 2300 and 0000, I will start up again with the full 1W ERP >for the benefit of North American stations. > >I hope this is OK - let me know if you would prefer something >different! > >Cheers, Jim Moritz >73 de M0BMU > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19945 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 07:13:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 07:13:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 1610 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 07:12:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 07:12:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fGEU-00088Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 07:07:06 +0000 Received: from cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.174]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fGET-00088U-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 07:07:05 +0000 Received: from modem-42.aftercomers.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.99.42] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14fGE6-00024A-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 07:06:43 +0000 Message-ID: <002501c0b10c$465b8220$2a63883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. lf Transatlantic. Date: Tue, 20 Mar 2001 07:05:46 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi John,
I didn't see your message last night, another lost opportunity!
I will have a look for Jack tonight. 73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7736 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 02:44:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 02:44:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 3293 invoked from network); 20 Mar 2001 02:44:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Mar 2001 02:44:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fC2E-0006Q9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 02:38:10 +0000 Received: from cobalt4.source.net ([206.100.10.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14fC2C-0006Q1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Mar 2001 02:38:08 +0000 Received: from w2ksn (windev1.scgroup.com [192.55.122.104]) by cobalt4.source.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id SAA01443 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:37:17 -0800 Message-ID: <006e01c0b0e6$d26adfc0$687a37c0@w2ksn> From: "Stewart Nelson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4736.200103191732@gemini> <000201c0b0c8$76567820$6fe086d4@ericadodd> Subject: LF: Re: Re: WOLF BPSK tests tonight Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:37:59 -0800 Organization: SC Group MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Peter, I don't have Win98 myself, but several users have run WOLF under Win98 with no trouble. Please send me the failing console output, or tell me what OS error message you are getting, and I'll try to diagnose the problem. 73, Stewart KK7KA ----- Original Message ----- From: "g3ldo" To: Sent: Monday, March 19, 2001 1:21 PM Subject: LF: Re: WOLF BPSK tests tonight > > Jim said > > I will try some lower power WOLF BPSK tests tonight, starting > > about 2000utc. ................. > > A really good signal here as might be expected at 2100 > > I downloaded Wolf but it would not run on any of the systems I have (DOS, > Win 3.11 and Win98). So unable to progress. > > Regards, > Peter Dodd > > e-mail > > Web > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17443 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 23:11:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 23:11:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 14818 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 23:01:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 23:01:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14f8ZI-000513-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 22:56:04 +0000 Received: from latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.40]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14f8ZH-00050y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 22:56:03 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-18-111.easynet.co.uk [212.134.224.111]) by latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id CEFFE538F6 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 22:55:39 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000201c0b0c8$76567820$6fe086d4@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4736.200103191732@gemini> Subject: LF: Re: WOLF BPSK tests tonight Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 21:21:30 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jim said > I will try some lower power WOLF BPSK tests tonight, starting > about 2000utc. ................. A really good signal here as might be expected at 2100 I downloaded Wolf but it would not run on any of the systems I have (DOS, Win 3.11 and Win98). So unable to progress. Regards, Peter Dodd e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18390 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 22:48:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 22:48:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 7177 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 22:17:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 22:17:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14f7sW-0004jC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 22:11:52 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14f7sV-0004j7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 22:11:51 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.90.137]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:51:53 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AB6C67A.12FD76A9@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 21:54:51 -0500 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re. lf Transatlantic. References: <001401c0b0b3$73b8cf60$3414883e@g3aqc> Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi Laurie,  I'm sure you could have QSO with VE1ZZ in about an hour with you
on DFCW as you transmit now es Jack on 3 sec dot QRSS
   73 de John VE1ZJ

Laurie Mayhead wrote:

John I certainly will be around during the summer. Not every night but from time to time. I want to keep on with DFCW possibly trying a bit shorter dots,to see where the limit is.So reports will always be welcome. I am sure a QSO is possible in one night,but it would mean staying up all night,something which I find very difficult at my age Hi.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 216 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 22:20:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 22:20:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 10841 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 22:20:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 22:20:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14f7vR-0004jY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 22:14:53 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14f7vQ-0004jT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 22:14:52 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.90.137]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:55:41 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AB6C75F.98D32A33@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 21:58:39 -0500 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: lf tonight Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all the K index is a 4 . I hope many will be transmitting tonight so we can see how we do with disturbed condx 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25927 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 20:37:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 20:37:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 22481 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 20:36:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 20:36:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14f6JC-00042c-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:31:18 +0000 Received: from cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.174]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14f6JB-00042X-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:31:17 +0000 Received: from modem-52.scandium.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.20.52] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14f6Ip-00022g-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:30:55 +0000 Message-ID: <001401c0b0b3$73b8cf60$3414883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. lf Transatlantic. Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:29:56 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
John I certainly will be around during the summer. Not every night but from time to time. I want to keep on with DFCW possibly trying a bit shorter dots,to see where the limit is.So reports will always be welcome. I am sure a QSO is possible in one night,but it would mean staying up all night,something which I find very difficult at my age Hi.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3517 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 20:36:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 20:36:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 25593 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 20:25:46 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 20:25:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14f68I-0003wr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:20:02 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from dargolad.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.27]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14f68H-0003wP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:20:01 +0000 Received: from ea.esoterica.pt (ea.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.204]) by dargolad.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f2JKJbq22512 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:19:37 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from slave2 (por305.esoterica.pt [195.22.18.5]) by ea.esoterica.pt (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA00717 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:19:36 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010319201937.00838a10@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:19:37 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: LF: Jim's Frequency MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: What is it please? 73, Brian 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9253 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 20:29:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 20:29:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 6810 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 20:11:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 20:11:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14f5uS-0003qk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:05:44 +0000 Received: from ligarius-fe0.ultra.net ([146.115.8.189]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14f5uQ-0003qf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 20:05:43 +0000 Received: from comrex (207-172-255-235.s1251.apx1.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com [207.172.255.235]) by ligarius-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n26500/mtc.v2) with SMTP id PAA15675 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:03:50 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00a101c0b0b0$a4a6c760$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001601c0b0a6$034cd300$2c45893e@g3aqc> Subject: LF: Re: Re. WOLF across the pond. Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:09:58 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I'm enjoying the comments about WOLF. Here are my own: This is very much a work-in-progress. Stewart Nelson has kindly provided workable software, a number of improvements, and much tech support to those of us who have been playing with it. I have spent a LOT of time playing with the receiving end, and have enjoyed it. Hopefully, in another year we'll be chuckling about the old days of the command line interface, etc. The goal, I believe, is to work on methods of completing 2-way QSOs in short enough time to compete with changing band conditions. WOLF is one approach. It is certainly not the most spectrum-efficient, and may not be the best way of receiving down-in-the-mud signals. But it may, in a later version, be a good approach to the 2-way problem. Personally, I'm an old CW guy, and prefer that mode. The various flavors of slow speed CW have been quite effective, and I've enjoyed chasing them. I'm quite taken with Laurie's DFCW transmissions - they are quite easy to ID and read. So for now, I'm content to try to add to the common stock of knowledge, and help those doing things like transmitting and software development to improve their stuff. And I've learned a lot in the process, which is never a bad idea! John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21141 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 19:28:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 19:28:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 16377 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 19:28:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 19:28:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14f5FH-0003YW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 19:23:11 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14f5FG-0003YR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 19:23:10 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.9.72]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 15:21:41 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AB6D0EC.A73E4715@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 19:39:25 -0800 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: lf transatlantic Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all , Just some thoughts. I only have anecdotal evidence for what I am about to write but anyway here are some feelings. Since we went to 30 second dots I cant remember a night when I didn't see a UK station here except when either 1. Nobody was transmitting or 2 I had severe 60 HZ pickup In other words the path between US es Nova Scotia is available to stations with erp of the order of Laurie's 0.3 watt or better most of the time. I have seen M0BMU or G3AQC when 129.9 or DCF39 were as weak as S-4. Normally the 2 german stations are S-5 to S-7 . Last night at around 0400 128.9 was S-8 but G3AQC was weaker than usual. On at least one occaision M0BMU was received well even though the K index was a 3. I feel the path is therefore quite reliable and QRSS with 30 second dots will produce QSOs more than half the winter nights. Some nights such as when I visited Jack'S house condx can be bad and even Jack's signals are not reliable. But even that night we saw MM0ALM for 1/2 hour and I believe Jack would have been at least "M" copy if he were using 30 second dots rather than 3 sec dots. QRN doesn't seem to have much effect. I have seen EU stns through static crashes during snow storms that were 10 db over S-9 on peaks. During precipitation static caused by charged snowflakes all sigs were wiped out. My belief is that we will be able to get through even during most of the summer. i would like to continue testing throughout summer. I do not think we need to have continuous beaconing. Perhaps 20 minutes at top of hour from Eu and 20 min at bottom of hour from NA . My sunset now is around 2200Z so I don't start seeing Eu stations til 2130Z So no point in starting before 2130Z. My sunset at summer solstice will be around 2345z So starting time then of 2315Z would be good . Is anybody interested in continuing through summer? Last night had 60 Hz trouble only saw G3AQC 73 all de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16196 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 19:07:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 19:07:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 28332 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 19:07:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 19:07:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14f4o5-0003QK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:55:05 +0000 Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14f4o4-0003QF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:55:04 +0000 Received: from modem-44.louisiana.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.69.44] helo=g3aqc) by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14f4ni-0007Ph-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:54:42 +0000 Message-ID: <001601c0b0a6$034cd300$2c45893e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. WOLF across the pond. Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:53:28 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Congratulations Jim another first! just wish I knew how it works.
For those intrested in old fashioned modes I will transmit again tonight DFCW. 73s All. Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5532 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 18:31:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 18:31:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 29194 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 18:30:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 18:30:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14f4Iw-000378-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:22:54 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14f4Iv-000373-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:22:54 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.102.231]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 14:21:46 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AB6C2E1.CDF16D84@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:39:30 -0800 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: Wolf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Congratulations to John and Jim. This is a fine achievement. I would like to point out ,however that 40 stations could transmit simultaneously with QRSS and 30 second dots. 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23021 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 18:24:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 18:24:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 2378 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 18:23:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 18:23:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14f4EG-00033A-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:18:04 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14f4EE-000329-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:18:03 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.102.231]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 14:17:00 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AB6C1C1.467DDF6F@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:34:42 -0800 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Wolf BPSK across pond References: <5186.200103191301@gemini> <3.0.1.16.20010319183255.77e7b476@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Rik I was pleased to see your email you will see that I have just sent one with a proposal for testing throughout summer 73 de john VE1ZJ Rik Strobbe wrote: > >Congrats to John and Jim on this accomplishment. I'd like to also point out > >that this successful reception took place on what, the first or second > night of > >transmissions ? > >And in the middle of March!! > > Congrats are in order, but things have to be seen in perspective : > - Jim has one of the strongest signals in Europe and his QRSS signals have > been copied in the USA / Canada on an almost daily base. > - transatlantic propagation has been excellent for the last week(s). CFH is > booming in day and night (here in Belgium abt. 10dB stronger than in > Octover/November) and modest stations (such as G3XDV) have made it across. > > Keeping in mind that the first succesfull transatlantic test was mid > september, it might turn out that midwinter has not nessecarily the best > propagation. I suggest to continue the transatlantic test until signals are > gone. > > 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5599 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 17:38:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 17:38:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 10048 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 17:38:23 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 17:38:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14f3XL-0002nC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:33:43 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14f3XK-0002n7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:33:42 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA61558 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:33:20 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010319183255.77e7b476@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 18:32:55 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Wolf BPSK across pond In-reply-to: <5.0.2.1.0.20010319105626.03318830@highnoonfilm.com> References: <5186.200103191301@gemini> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >Congrats to John and Jim on this accomplishment. I'd like to also point out >that this successful reception took place on what, the first or second night of >transmissions ? >And in the middle of March!! Congrats are in order, but things have to be seen in perspective : - Jim has one of the strongest signals in Europe and his QRSS signals have been copied in the USA / Canada on an almost daily base. - transatlantic propagation has been excellent for the last week(s). CFH is booming in day and night (here in Belgium abt. 10dB stronger than in Octover/November) and modest stations (such as G3XDV) have made it across. Keeping in mind that the first succesfull transatlantic test was mid september, it might turn out that midwinter has not nessecarily the best propagation. I suggest to continue the transatlantic test until signals are gone. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8235 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 17:38:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 17:38:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 4652 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 17:38:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 17:38:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14f3X5-0002n4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:33:27 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14f3X4-0002mx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:33:26 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14f3We-0004oq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:33:00 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <4736.200103191732@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:37:47 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: WOLF BPSK tests tonight X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Wolf, Rik, LF Group, I will try some lower power WOLF BPSK tests tonight, starting about 2000utc. Because different stations are experiencing widely different signal levels, and since with weak signals the WOLF software requires quite a long run of signal to successfully decode, I will start off with big steps in power level every 20mins or so, so we can determine roughly what levels will be interesting for future tests. I will start at the 300mW ERP level, and reduce power in 10dB steps - say 30mW, 3mW, 300uW. At each step change I will transmit the CW station ID and the ERP level for the next period, followed by 3 minutes of carrier for frequency checking, all transmitted at full power. Then I will reduce the TX power level and start sending BPSK, until the next station ID. The frequency will be 137.500kHz again. I will listen on the frequency afterwards if anybody wants to call in CW about the tests. At some time between 2300 and 0000, I will start up again with the full 1W ERP for the benefit of North American stations. I hope this is OK - let me know if you would prefer something different! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6936 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 17:14:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 17:14:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 13567 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 17:14:50 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 17:14:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14f3Ag-0002ef-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:10:18 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from outbound.charter.net ([24.216.159.200] helo=front004.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14f3Af-0002e9-00; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:10:17 +0000 Received: from [24.240.102.247] (HELO z6l3g7.highnoonfilm.com) by front004.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4b8) with ESMTP id 7085785; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 12:09:23 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010319105626.03318830@highnoonfilm.com> X-Sender: les@highnoonfilm.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 11:08:34 -0600 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Les Rayburn" Subject: Re: LF: Wolf BPSK across pond Cc: lowfer@qth.net In-reply-to: <5186.200103191301@gemini> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 01:06 PM 3/19/01 +0000, James Moritz wrote: >Dear LF Group, > >I arrived at work this morning to find that: > > > Well, WOLF has successfully crossed the pond. Got two lines of clean > > copy between 0135 and 0200 Z tonight (3/19 Z). Frequency was about 0.13 > > Hz below 137.5 kHz. Had to do some tweaking to get the copy. Those > > command line switches do come in handy. > > > > John Andrews, W1TAG > > > >Many thanks to John for this report, and his perseverance. Also to >Stewart, KK7KA for developing the mode in the first place. I believe this >is the first time a mode other than QRSS or DFCW has benn successfully >copied across the pond. > >I will run some more tests this evening; details to follow. > >Cheers, Jim Moritz >73 de M0BMU Congrats to John and Jim on this accomplishment. I'd like to also point out that this successful reception took place on what, the first or second night of transmissions? And in the middle of March!! While you don't want to make too much out of a single test, this reception has well as many receptions at great distances in the US make it clear that WOLF must be taken very seriously has the mode for next season. I encourage all "lowfers" on both sides of the Atlantic to strongly consider adding the WOLF mode to both your transmission and reception capabilities. And, yes, hats off to Stewart, KK7KA for developing this mode...and really also to Lyle Koehler, K0LR who once again led the charge in doing on air testing of this new mode. Congrats to all again. Les Rayburn, N1LF 4919 Cox Cove Helena, AL 35080 XMGR 184.8988khz WOLF Mode 1LF 187.300khz Looking for a challenge? Try the ultimate weak signal mode, on 1750 Meters! Visit the Noise Floor! http://www.highnoonfilm.com/xmgr From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28461 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 16:40:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 16:40:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 10102 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 16:39:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 16:39:49 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14f2bN-0002M4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:33:49 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14f2bL-0002Lz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:33:47 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id QAA09701; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:36:11 GMT Received: (qmail 10387 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 17:24:47 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 17:24:47 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id RAA05320; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:11:40 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma005060; Mon, 19 Mar 01 17:10:41 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-3.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:38:00 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-3.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:32:23 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03E3@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: M0BMU "Wolfed" in the U.S. Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:32:16 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Congrats both. That is impressive, and bears out the value of spread spectrum communications - which is what this mode really amounts to. Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: John Andrews [mailto:w1tag@charter.net] > Sent: 2001-03-19 12:29 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: M0BMU "Wolfed" in the U.S. > > > In my haste to get to bed last night, I neglected to post here that I > successfully copied M0BMU's WOLF transmission in a 25 minute > recording made > from 0135 - 0200 UTC (19 Mar). There are two lines of clear > copy at this > point. I say that, because I'm not done tweaking the various > command line > parameters yet. As Jim has pointed out, you should enter the correct > sampling rate for your sound card, and this appears to be > more important > with weak signals. Also, I find that adding short delays in > increments of > 1/20 second (-s 400, -s 800...) may transform partial lines > into complete > ones. > > I'm located in central Massachusetts, about 80 km west of > Boston. This is a > fairly noisy residential area, and I'm stuck with a loud > carrier just above > 137 kHz that does deafen my receiver somewhat. Hardly an > ideal location. I > believe that my neighbor nearest the loop antenna turned > their light dimmer > off around 0145 last night, thereby helping my situation greatly! > > John Andrews, W1TAG > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9839 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 16:40:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 16:40:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 15755 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 16:17:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 16:17:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14f2Ei-0002AC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:10:24 +0000 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14f2Eg-0002A7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:10:22 +0000 Received: from [213.1.199.14] (helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14f2EK-00062l-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:10:01 +0000 Message-ID: <000b01c0b08e$f8d61c40$0ec701d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots for 17/18 Mar at GB7DXM Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:08:07 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, not many G stations spotted again....maybe there weren't any on ! I cannot believe conditions were that bad as I heard DJ9IE regularly during the week and a good signal from Christer SM6PXJ. CFH has been on fairly reliably during the week and is often visible in daytime. This seems to be the result of some disturbance and there are signs of what I think is multipath fading during the night. These lead to stupendous levels over Sunday/Monday with peak levels on my plots of 46dBu. These have all been posted to Rik for inclusion on his site. http://www.qsl.net/on7yd Cluster spots follow:- 137.7 OM2YL 18-Mar-2001 1557Z CQ on QRSS 137.2 OM2TW 18-Mar-2001 1546Z CQ 599... 137.2 OK1DTN 18-Mar-2001 1235Z CQ 137.7 DJ2LF 18-Mar-2001 1131Z CQ 136.5 DF0WD 18-Mar-2001 1027Z 559 cq 136.8 F6BWO 18-Mar-2001 1022Z 539 qso with dj7rd 599 136.8 DK5PT 18-Mar-2001 1008Z 559 qso with on7zo 239 137.7 HB9ASB 18-Mar-2001 0809Z 137.5 M0BMU 17-Mar-2001 2047Z perfect copy in WOLF BPSK 137.7 OM2TW 17-Mar-2001 1725Z cq qrss 137.7 OM2TW 17-Mar-2001 1716Z slow CQ & any QRN... 137.7 OM2TW 17-Mar-2001 1333Z QRSS 599 + 20 dB hr 137.7 DK8KW 17-Mar-2001 1238Z DFCW CQ Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27329 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 16:31:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 16:31:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 3378 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 16:31:58 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 16:31:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14f2UO-0002Kp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:26:36 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14f2UN-0002Kk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 16:26:35 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id RAA29142 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:26:13 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010319172548.3f07fc24@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 17:25:48 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: DX Cluster spots for 17/18 Mar at GB7DXM In-reply-to: <000b01c0b08e$f8d61c40$0ec701d5@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >CFH has been on fairly reliably during the week and is often visible in >daytime. This seems to be the result of some disturbance and there are signs >of what I think is multipath fading during the night. These lead to >stupendous levels over Sunday/Monday with peak levels on my plots of 46dBu. >These have all been posted to Rik for inclusion on his site. >http://www.qsl.net/on7yd > For those who want to take a 'shortcut', the CFH plots are at : http://www.qsl.net/on7yd/136cfbh.htm more general LF info is via : http://www.qsl.net/on7yd/136khz.htm 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24863 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 13:07:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 13:07:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 24826 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 13:07:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 13:07:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ezIj-0000zk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 13:02:21 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ezIi-0000zf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 13:02:20 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14ezIG-0003Bb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 13:01:52 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <5186.200103191301@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 13:06:39 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Wolf BPSK across pond X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group,

I arrived at work this morning to find that:

> Well, WOLF has successfully crossed the pond. Got two lines of clean
> copy between 0135 and 0200 Z tonight (3/19 Z). Frequency was about 0.13
> Hz below 137.5 kHz. Had to do some tweaking to get the copy. Those
> command line switches do come in handy.
>
> John Andrews, W1TAG
>

Many thanks to John for this report, and his perseverance. Also to Stewart, KK7KA for developing the mode in the first place. I believe this is the first time a mode other than QRSS or DFCW has benn successfully copied across the pond.

I will run some more tests this evening; details to follow.

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1982 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 12:34:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 12:34:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 29984 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 12:33:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 12:33:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eylv-0000kt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 12:28:27 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eylu-0000ko-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 12:28:26 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 12:26:28 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 12:26:26 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Transatlantic: CFH good Message-ID: <3AB5FAF2.27157.7C52A9@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Being a great believer in the saying "There's no point in losing sleep over insomnia", I was up at 0040 and noticed that CFH was a massive S9+10dB. As a guide to how good that was, there are only three amateur stations I hear at this strength (G3GRO, G3YXM and G3XTZ) and only one that is stronger (M0BMU 10km away)! I transmitted my callsign with 60s dots and 120s dashes until sleep finally overcame me at 0300. By this time CFH was down to S9. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1798 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 12:34:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 12:34:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 4578 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 12:34:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 12:34:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eymB-0000kz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 12:28:43 +0000 Received: from outbound.charter.net ([24.216.159.200] helo=front004.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eymA-0000km-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 12:28:43 +0000 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johnupstairs) by front004.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4b8) with SMTP id 7044575 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 07:27:46 -0500 Message-ID: <001f01c0b070$2a3de8e0$0200a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <94.119ce742.27e6b961@aol.com> Subject: LF: M0BMU "Wolfed" in the U.S. Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 07:28:55 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In my haste to get to bed last night, I neglected to post here that I successfully copied M0BMU's WOLF transmission in a 25 minute recording made from 0135 - 0200 UTC (19 Mar). There are two lines of clear copy at this point. I say that, because I'm not done tweaking the various command line parameters yet. As Jim has pointed out, you should enter the correct sampling rate for your sound card, and this appears to be more important with weak signals. Also, I find that adding short delays in increments of 1/20 second (-s 400, -s 800...) may transform partial lines into complete ones. I'm located in central Massachusetts, about 80 km west of Boston. This is a fairly noisy residential area, and I'm stuck with a loud carrier just above 137 kHz that does deafen my receiver somewhat. Hardly an ideal location. I believe that my neighbor nearest the loop antenna turned their light dimmer off around 0145 last night, thereby helping my situation greatly! John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27819 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 09:55:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 09:55:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 9479 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 09:54:59 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 09:54:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ewHR-0008EI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 09:48:49 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ewHP-0008ED-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 09:48:48 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA125820 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:48:25 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010319104802.2b277df0@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:48:02 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: Jim's BPSK In-reply-to: <200103171318.f2HDIKq00614@smtp.wanadoo.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I wasn't aware of Jim's BPSK tests on saturday, but as I heard a 'suspicious signal' in the digtal mode segment I decided to record a 1 minute WAV file and let WOLF have a try on it. Result : a 100% copy at the firsqt attempt. But Jim's signal is about 25dB over noise here, so it wasn't a real challenge. Using DL4YHF's software as spectrum analyzer I noticed that the bandwidth was about 20Hz, so one should stay out of the QRSS segment (above 137600) with BPSK. I would like to do some more tests with weaker signals, if WOLF is as good as told (100% copy at -40dB SNR) than Jim could reduce his power by about 65dB. Jim, is it possible for you to reduce power in steps, let's say -6dB every 10 minutes. I believe you could start at a level that is 20dB down on the power you were running on saturday (at least for me). 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12466 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 09:34:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 09:34:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 2858 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 09:34:01 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 09:34:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14evvn-00087F-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 09:26:27 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14evvm-00087A-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 09:26:26 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA237110 for ; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:26:04 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010319102541.2c6f4070@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 10:25:41 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: QRS v3.05 In-reply-to: <000801c0af9a$d43f0c60$744036d2@mcalevey> References: <3.0.1.16.20010309105514.22079226@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Mike, So far I didn't get any similar error reports of 'mixing up' characters. Any chance that you selected DFCW mode instead of QRSS ? If you select DFCW and transmit without applying a frequency shift an 'L' will appear as an 'H'. Just a 'wild guess' ... 73, Rik ON7YD At 23:01 18/03/01 +1200, you wrote: >Rik > >I have possibly a small problem with QRS305. Yesterday I was sending a text >"LLLLLL" with 120 second dots. From reception reports (2000 km) it appeared >that H's were being sent instead of L's. I confirmed this by setting the >speed to 1 second dots and indeed it was H's. I typed in a second text >"HHHHHH" and this worked normally. I then selected the first text (the L's) >again and it worked perfectly sending L's. Testing again today there is no >problem. Do you have any suggestions? > >Mike ZL4OL > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12853 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 01:31:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 01:31:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 23625 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 01:30:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 01:30:55 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eoOZ-0005Ja-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 01:23:39 +0000 Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eoOY-0005FI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 01:23:38 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.94.119ce742 (18712) for ; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 20:22:42 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <94.119ce742.27e6b961@aol.com> Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 20:22:41 EST Subject: Re: LF: DF6NM/G3AQC To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 70 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Uwe, hi all, thanks a lot for your image, that is exactly the kind of fast and precise feedback I always wished to have while transmitting. Transatlantic condx appear to be excellent tonight, CFH consistently at +35dBuV/m is the strongest I have seen so far. Or have they upgraded their tx? (hopefully _not_ ;-) Another station has come up on 922.50 , as far as I can see "between the lines", slightly weaker than Laurie. 73 de Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17862 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 00:48:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 00:48:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 2552 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 00:47:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 00:47:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14enkb-00052A-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 00:42:21 +0000 Received: from imo-r18.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.72]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14enka-000525-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 00:42:20 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-r18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.33.122e4757 (3890) for ; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 19:40:51 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <33.122e4757.27e6af93@aol.com> Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 19:40:51 EST Subject: LF: Transatlantic with QRP ? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 70 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi John, Andy and group, > How about stations in the 40mW range, even less than Mike ? > We do have the advantage of absolute frequency accuracy. > Andy > > > Hi all, I haven't said I have quit transatlantic testing. In > > fact I would like to continue looking for stations in the 0.1 to 0.5 watt > > erp range. Well, maybe things are not completely hopeless for us "single-yagi" boys? CFH's carrier was above 30dBuV/m for several hours during last week's nights. Without helium, I can radiate about 30mW, some 55dB below CFH's 10kW or -25dBuV/m in VE. This would be a T to M signal here on a very quiet day with 3s dots in 0.34Hz. Noise is certainly higher at night, but 30s dots will make up 10dB. Right now CFH is coming up again, 32 dBuV/m at 23:40 ! Time to fire up the tx and put out a call sign on 135922.19Hz (0.2 Hz above Laurie's upper frequency). 73s de Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22597 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 00:46:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 00:46:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 1182 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 00:46:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 00:46:39 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14enk2-000523-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 00:41:46 +0000 Received: from imo-r18.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.72]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14enk1-00051y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 00:41:45 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-r18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.3e.8f2f7bd (3890) for ; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 19:40:50 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <3e.8f2f7bd.27e6af92@aol.com> Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 19:40:50 EST Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic Challenge: the Canadian / Europe contacts To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 70 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi friends, a late comment, after a few days away from the net: That sure is good news! Since I first read about the original and ingenious ways to achieve these contacts, I had hoped for a decision like that. Congratulations to all of you! Markus, DF6NM John wrote: > In these unexpected circumstances, and taking into consideration the intent > behind setting up the Challenge that was to commemorate Peter Bobek's > practical and fun approach to amateur radio, we have unanimously decided to > award both contacts with special plaques to commemorate their achievements, > that is the contact between VA3LK, G3AQC, and the contact between VE1ZZ, > VE1ZJ and G3LDO. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13442 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 00:24:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 00:24:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 3956 invoked from network); 19 Mar 2001 00:23:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Mar 2001 00:23:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14enNu-0004rW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 00:18:54 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout01.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.80]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14enNs-0004rR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 00:18:52 +0000 Received: from fwd03.sul.t-online.com by mailout01.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14enNQ-0000qQ-00; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 01:18:24 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[193.159.25.215]) by fwd03.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14enN7-0EL17IC; Mon, 19 Mar 2001 01:18:05 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3AB55D70.E5A15C43@ns.sympatico.ca> Subject: LF: DF6NM/G3AQC X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------030605000002030003050504" Date: Mon, 19 Mar 2001 01:18:05 +0100 Message-ID: <14enN7-0EL17IC@fwd03.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030605000002030003050504 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, captured DF6NM es G3AQC (30s dots, agc off)on 18.03.01 at 23.38utc. have a look at the enclosed pic, pse. regards 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ACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAo oooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKK ACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAo oooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKK ACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAo oooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKK ACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAo oooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKK ACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAo oooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKK ACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAo oooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKK ACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAo 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ACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAo oooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKK ACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigD/2Q== --------------030605000002030003050504-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24987 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2001 22:20:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2001 22:20:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 22913 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2001 22:20:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 18 Mar 2001 22:20:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14elJ1-00042e-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 22:05:43 +0000 Received: from amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.45]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14elJ0-00042Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 22:05:42 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-1-79.easynet.co.uk [195.40.206.79]) by amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 833EC17646 for ; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 22:05:13 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000401c0aff8$3e16b680$4fce28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: LF book update Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 21:50:54 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have now included the programs used to produce the LF antenna impedance signature shown in Fig 6.17 of the LF Experimenters HB. Just click on to 'AEGextra' from the home page. The site is given below. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1559 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2001 20:21:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2001 20:21:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 4061 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2001 20:21:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 18 Mar 2001 20:21:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ejXq-0003QB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 20:12:54 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ejXo-0003Q6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 20:12:53 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.98.157]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 16:11:28 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AB55D70.E5A15C43@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 20:14:24 -0500 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: lf tests Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All I will start looking tonight at 2030. Last night saw G3AQC from 2130Z . Also unintelligeable sigs just above G3AQC. Freq used by IK5ZPV bad Here . I have spur from CFH exactly where you were transmitting . Please move up 1/4 or 1/2 or 1 Hertz higher 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5580 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2001 20:09:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2001 20:09:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 17343 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2001 20:09:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 18 Mar 2001 20:09:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ejGr-0003JU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 19:55:21 +0000 Received: from hugo.fen-net.de ([194.95.193.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ejGq-0003JP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 19:55:20 +0000 Received: from 194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de (dialin-nbg-190.fen-net.de [195.37.215.70]) by hugo.fen-net.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id UAA20950 for ; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 20:54:22 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <000601c0afe5$430beb00$46d725c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de> From: "Walter Staubach" To: "Reflektor" Subject: LF: Test Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 20:51:11 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks Brian for the test. We both saw you "O" and answered, but sri no QSO. Better antennas and more power will be necessary here. 73 Walter --------------------------------------------- Walter.Staubach@fen-net.de From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5835 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2001 15:52:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2001 15:52:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 29737 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2001 15:52:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 18 Mar 2001 15:52:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14efL1-0001t1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 15:43:23 +0000 Received: from hugo.fen-net.de ([194.95.193.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14efL0-0001sw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 15:43:22 +0000 Received: from 194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de (dialin-nbg-216.fen-net.de [195.37.215.96]) by hugo.fen-net.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA29667 for ; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 16:42:27 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <003301c0afc2$10f3c020$74d725c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de> From: "Walter Staubach" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: DJ2LF unknown attachment Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 16:41:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by hugo.fen-net.de id QAA29667 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hallo David, Brian sent e-mail with images from the EF50`s via reflektor. I answered to him just by "reply" and asked for sked. Today he answered again and we (Markus and me) will try to make QSO with him. Please let me know what was wrong. 73 Walter -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: G0MRF@aol.com An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Datum: Sonntag, 18. Mdrz 2001 12:11 Betreff: LF: DJ2LF unknown attachment >Walter. >Your private e-mail to Brian arrived here with an attachment marked "UNKNOWN" > >What is this please? > >David > > > >In a message dated 3/16/01 3:26:49 PM GMT Standard Time, >walter.staubach@fen.baynet.de writes: > ><< Subj: LF: EF50 > Date: 3/16/01 3:26:49 PM GMT Standard Time > From: walter.staubach@fen.baynet.de (Walter Staubach) > Sender: majordom@post.thorcom.com > Reply-to: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org (Reflektor) > > File: Unknown (862 bytes) > DL Time (32000 bps): < 1 minute > > > > -------------------- > Thanks, Brian, for the pictures. Yes, that they are. > But about modern times: How about a QRSS-test on - lets say 137.695 this >night (fri/sat) or next (sat/sun) at 23utc? I think Markus, DF6NM, would like >to join. > He already saw you days ago. > 73 Walter DJ2LF > >> > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20919 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2001 15:35:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2001 15:35:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 12915 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2001 15:34:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 18 Mar 2001 15:34:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ef3k-0001nR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 15:25:32 +0000 Received: from hugo.fen-net.de ([194.95.193.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ef3i-0001nM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 15:25:31 +0000 Received: from 194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de (dialin-nbg-236.fen-net.de [195.37.215.116]) by hugo.fen-net.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA28500 for ; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 16:24:31 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <000c01c0afbf$8fd83720$74d725c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de> From: "Walter Staubach" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: EF50 Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 16:23:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by hugo.fen-net.de id QAA28500 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Brian, thanks for info. Markus, DF6NM, and me will try to contact you, beginning today at 1700utc and ending 2000utc. At first we will take 3s/dot, later on if necessery 10s/dot. QRG 137.695 +-3. 73 Walter DJ2LF -----Urspr|ngliche Nachricht----- Von: Brian Rogerson An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Datum: Samstag, 17. Mdrz 2001 21:06 Betreff: Re: LF: EF50 >Walter > >I will be very pleased to have a qso but I am afraid that I "crash out" >about 2100utc. I do wake early if that is any use but otherwise during >the day. Let me know a time, 137.695 seems ok and 3sec dot and I >will go to 10 sec if I am not receiving well. 73, Brian > >At 16:14 16/03/01 +0100, you wrote: >> Thanks, Brian, for the pictures. Yes, that they are. But about modern >>times: How about a QRSS-test on - lets say 137.695 this night (fri/sat) or >>next (sat/sun) at 23utc? I think Markus, DF6NM, would like to join. He >>already saw you days ago. 73 Walter DJ2LF Attachment Converted: >>"C:\Eudora\Attach\LF EF50.gif" > > >73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W >http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6308 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2001 13:00:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 18 Mar 2001 13:00:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 23823 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2001 13:00:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 18 Mar 2001 13:00:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ecf7-0000s6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 12:51:57 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ecf6-0000s1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 12:51:56 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14ecel-0002Nn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 12:51:35 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <10671.200103181251@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 12:56:22 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Tests last night X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF group, I transmitted "Wolf" mode signals from 2000 until 0330 utc last night on 137.5kHz. Thanks to DL4YHF for the reception report; I recorded several "random samples" of my signal off-air, which I was also able to decode without problems. If anyone would like further tests, different power levels etc, please let me know. I will be transmitting again tonight for a few hours around midnight, at least covering 0000 - 0200 utc in case anyone in North America would like to try. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26457 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2001 12:34:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2001 12:34:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 1881 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2001 12:34:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 18 Mar 2001 12:34:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ecGr-0000kl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 12:26:53 +0000 Received: from fep04.swip.net ([130.244.199.132] helo=fep04-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ecGq-0000kg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 12:26:52 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.110.102]) by fep04-svc.swip.net (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20010318122630.FGCH8901.fep04-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 13:26:30 +0100 Message-ID: <000901c0afa6$cc29d760$666e97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: SV: Transatlantic-mystery Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 13:26:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Uwe >first line: lf-meteorites ? Yes, probably, or perhaps parts of MIR, hihi... To me, it looks like a QRSS station sending "DDK"... with severe QRH/QRI. 73 Johan Bodin SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8766 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2001 12:27:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 18 Mar 2001 12:27:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 24091 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2001 12:27:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 18 Mar 2001 12:27:23 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ec4a-0000fN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 12:14:12 +0000 Received: from ds-img-4.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.137] helo=spdmgaad.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ec4U-0000fC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 12:14:07 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaad.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id HAA12781 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 07:13:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 07:12:49 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Transatlantic-mystery To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200103180713_MC2-C923-F89C@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Uwe and LF-group, >Hi all, >during night ARGO/30s-dots/AGC-off captured on 18.03.01 at 0116utc the enclosed >pic. >first line: lf-meteorites ? >second line: IK5ZPV >third line: DK8KW ? >4th line: G3AQC< >Uwe/dj8wx jo43sv ... looking at these pictures, I believe that this was my signal! At least easy to identify ... hope I didn't cause too much trouble ... I used my Hagenug EX-1001 SSB esxciter on 134.000 kHz (suppressed) carrier frequency and mixed 1923.70 Hz to it ... from a relatively stabil AF source. What I did not think about is that the Exciter is PLL-driven and obviously needs some time to reach its oroginal frequency ... thats the "trails" you cyn see on Uwe's pictures. Next time I need to keep both frequency sources running, and key only the buffer and PA! Thanks for your observation, Uwe, best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6328 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2001 12:12:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2001 12:12:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 6524 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2001 12:11:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 18 Mar 2001 12:11:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ebne-0000YW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 11:56:42 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout03.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ebnb-0000YR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 11:56:40 +0000 Received: from fwd06.sul.t-online.com by mailout03.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14ebnB-0004yl-01; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 12:56:13 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[217.87.109.169]) by fwd06.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14ebn0-0bSE1RC; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 12:56:02 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200103170559_MC2-C91E-9394@compuserve.com> Subject: LF: Transatlantic-mystery X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------050502090200040401020603" Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 12:56:02 +0100 Message-ID: <14ebn0-0bSE1RC@fwd06.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050502090200040401020603 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, during night ARGO/30s-dots/AGC-off captured on 18.03.01 at 0116utc the enclosed pic. first line: lf-meteorites ? second line: IK5ZPV third line: DK8KW ? 4th line: G3AQC the pics 30min before and 60 min afterwards: no mysteries shown. 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pCSfD4J9ftkH/wAcpsXwZ8fr97w2P/A2D/45X1rRSeKqN3HyI+RpPgt8QWOV8PAf9vkH/wAX XuXwm8Nz+GtCtbPU/Cn2DV44pRPqeLZvODSlgm9HMh4K9QB8nXgZ9HorGdRzd2NKwUUUVAwo oooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKK ACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAo oooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKK ACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAo oooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKK ACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAo oooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKKACiiigAooooAKKKK ACiiigAooooA/9k= --------------050502090200040401020603-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9713 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2001 11:15:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 18 Mar 2001 11:15:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 27595 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2001 11:15:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 18 Mar 2001 11:15:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eaz6-0000Ek-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 11:04:28 +0000 Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eaz4-0000Ec-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 11:04:27 +0000 Received: from mcalevey ([210.54.64.116]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010318110333.PDHU17343171.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@mcalevey> for ; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 23:03:33 +1200 Message-ID: <000801c0af9a$d43f0c60$744036d2@mcalevey> From: "mcalevey" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20010309105514.22079226@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: LF: Re: QRS v3.05 Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 23:01:09 +1200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik I have possibly a small problem with QRS305. Yesterday I was sending a text "LLLLLL" with 120 second dots. From reception reports (2000 km) it appeared that H's were being sent instead of L's. I confirmed this by setting the speed to 1 second dots and indeed it was H's. I typed in a second text "HHHHHH" and this worked normally. I then selected the first text (the L's) again and it worked perfectly sending L's. Testing again today there is no problem. Do you have any suggestions? Mike ZL4OL From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23807 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2001 10:55:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 18 Mar 2001 10:55:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 14015 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2001 10:55:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 18 Mar 2001 10:55:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eaVp-00003D-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 10:34:13 +0000 Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.8]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eaVo-000035-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 10:34:12 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.c4.114c175b (6537) for ; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 05:33:15 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Mar 2001 05:33:15 EST Subject: LF: DJ2LF unknown attachment To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Walter. Your private e-mail to Brian arrived here with an attachment marked "UNKNOWN" What is this please? David In a message dated 3/16/01 3:26:49 PM GMT Standard Time, walter.staubach@fen.baynet.de writes: << Subj: LF: EF50 Date: 3/16/01 3:26:49 PM GMT Standard Time From: walter.staubach@fen.baynet.de (Walter Staubach) Sender: majordom@post.thorcom.com Reply-to: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org (Reflektor) File: Unknown (862 bytes) DL Time (32000 bps): < 1 minute -------------------- Thanks, Brian, for the pictures. Yes, that they are. But about modern times: How about a QRSS-test on - lets say 137.695 this night (fri/sat) or next (sat/sun) at 23utc? I think Markus, DF6NM, would like to join. He already saw you days ago. 73 Walter DJ2LF >> From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1863 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2001 00:38:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Mar 2001 00:38:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 20980 invoked from network); 18 Mar 2001 00:38:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 18 Mar 2001 00:38:30 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eR3E-0005H7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 00:28:04 +0000 Received: from imo-m09.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.164]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eR3D-0005H2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Mar 2001 00:28:03 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-m09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.45.3be7bc9 (3988) for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 19:27:08 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <45.3be7bc9.27e55adc@aol.com> Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 19:27:08 EST Subject: LF: Jim's WOLF Tests on Saturday evening - FB ! To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Disposition: Inline X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 217 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello group,

there was nice signal from Jim M0BMU in the new promising WOLF BPSK mode on
saturday evening (just got home from the club station with 30 megabytes of
recorded audio..)

I had 100% error free copy right from the start, even though there was heavy
QRN (static crashes) and a lousy drifting receiver (about 0.5Hz in 30
minutes) on this side, so a lot has to be improved here before I will be able
to transmit a useful signal from DF0WD (sri).

Jim transmitted an unmodulated carrier of some minutes at the beginning of
every TX interval, which allowed a kind of 'calibration' of the RX frequency.
It also helped very much to find the center frequency, which must be passed
to   the decoding software as a command line argument.

May I suggest a dramatically reduced power for the next test transmissions,
so that also the EU stations can dig in the noise for a weak signal (let's
say 1mW instead of 300mW), because with Jim's powerful signal was much higher
than  the noise floor on saturday.

So thanks again to Stewart (KK7KA) for the invention of WOLF and to Jim for
his test transmissions.


73's from Wolf (DL4YHF).
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13774 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 20:00:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 20:00:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 22038 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 20:00:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 20:00:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eMjb-0003cB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 19:51:31 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eMja-0003c6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 19:51:30 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.96.79]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 15:50:23 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AB406FD.33D8D0F0@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 19:53:17 -0500 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: lf tonight Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I will be looking for Eu stations from 2000Z til 0030z and again from 0400Z to 0600 73 es gl John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5080 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 20:00:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 20:00:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 10648 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 20:00:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 20:00:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eMj6-0003c0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 19:51:00 +0000 Received: from mail4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.211]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eMj2-0003bq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 19:50:56 +0000 Received: from modem-57.elrohir.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.187.57] helo=g3aqc) by mail4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14eMic-0003wu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 19:50:30 +0000 Message-ID: <003301c0af1b$77f69380$18af883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. Mad Hatters tea Party Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 19:49:32 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
I tried to send this message direct but it got rejected.
Hi Ko,
Well its very difficult to tell from here what are real lines and what may be spurious The broad bands are very like the modulation patterns fron stations such as SXV on 135.7 to 135.85. You will have to frequency calibrate the system and try to idintify the lines.Lists of LORAN lines from various atations were published on the reflector some time ago. Vertical lines on horiz traces are usually noise (static) but yours are too regular.You should be able to see the UK stations around 135.925. I will be on later on 135.922. I do think a filter is neccesary to prevent overload of the pre-amp. Best of luck sorting things out.  73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24874 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 19:48:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 19:48:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 13053 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 19:48:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 19:48:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eMYX-0003aY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 19:40:05 +0000 Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eMYW-0003aT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 19:40:04 +0000 Received: from modem-3.ciryon.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.148.3] helo=g3aqc) by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14eMYA-0002AF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 19:39:42 +0000 Message-ID: <002601c0af19$f5c8e1c0$18af883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re.Report. Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 19:38:38 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi All,
Johns report on my signal "best from about 0100 to about 0215
corresponds with Alans plot for CFH which shows a similar peak to above 40db for just the same time period. This would indicate that the propagation is bi-directional. To be expected of course but nice to have confirmed. I will be on again tonight from about 2300utc.  73s Laurie. 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25783 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 19:45:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 19:45:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 12723 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 19:45:26 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 19:45:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eMU6-0003Vy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 19:35:30 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from dargolad.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.27]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eMU5-0003Vt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 19:35:29 +0000 Received: from ea.esoterica.pt (ea.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.204]) by dargolad.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f2HJZ5105819 for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 19:35:05 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from slave2 (por252.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.252]) by ea.esoterica.pt (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA02026 for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 19:35:04 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010317193501.0082e670@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 19:35:01 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: EF50 In-reply-to: <005c01c0ae2b$f83f5220$65d725c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de > MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Walter I will be very pleased to have a qso but I am afraid that I "crash out" about 2100utc. I do wake early if that is any use but otherwise during the day. Let me know a time, 137.695 seems ok and 3sec dot and I will go to 10 sec if I am not receiving well. 73, Brian At 16:14 16/03/01 +0100, you wrote: > Thanks, Brian, for the pictures. Yes, that they are. But about modern >times: How about a QRSS-test on - lets say 137.695 this night (fri/sat) or >next (sat/sun) at 23utc? I think Markus, DF6NM, would like to join. He >already saw you days ago. 73 Walter DJ2LF Attachment Converted: >"C:\Eudora\Attach\LF EF50.gif" 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24552 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 15:59:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 15:59:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 16408 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 15:59:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 15:59:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eJ2I-0002NB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 15:54:34 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eJ2H-0002N6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 15:54:33 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.104.134]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 11:53:22 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AB3CF71.33C44A06@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 15:56:17 -0500 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: lf tests Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all saw 3 stations last night. SM6PXJ, from 0030 til 0130. G3AQC for most of night til qrt 0530. Very strong es readable from both AQC somewhat stronger.Don't know when Christer went QRT but lost him at 0130. Strongest sigs were from CT1DRP but his dots es dashes were longer so perhaps just more integration. Frequencies posted b4 look ok wl look for xyz aqc zpv kw . Best if all use 30 second dots wl send pix later 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17825 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 14:40:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 14:40:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 23552 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 14:40:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 14:40:12 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eHo1-0001tw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 14:35:45 +0000 Received: from smtp.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.193.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eHo0-0001tr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 14:35:45 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from default (p1335.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.170.60]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f2HEZMq11665 for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 15:35:22 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <200103171435.f2HEZMq11665@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 15:35:39 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re. Mad Hatters Tea Party X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 3/17/01 13:54:00, you wrote: >Hi Ko. >Your pictures are indeed very busy, do you have un-invited guests at your party? I see a lot of Loran. 73s Laurie. > Hi Laurie. I am not sure, but are the lines really there or are they created in the L202 preamp i am trying? The L202 does not have a bandpass filter like the other one i use. Watched 01:00 this morning and the lines were even worse but noone was transmitting inside of them, though the lines were very close. 73 de Ko, NL9222. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12406 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 14:02:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 14:02:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 2261 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 14:01:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 14:01:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eHBI-0001i8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 13:55:44 +0000 Received: from cmailg5.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.175]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eHBH-0001i3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 13:55:43 +0000 Received: from modem-123.atanatari.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.130.123] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg5.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14eHAv-0004Lp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 13:55:22 +0000 Message-ID: <002401c0aee9$daf0c8c0$a8b3883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. Mad Hatters Tea Party Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 13:54:20 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi Ko.
Your pictures are indeed very busy, do you have un-invited guests at your party?  I see a lot of Loran. 73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27345 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 13:45:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 13:45:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 16527 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 13:45:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 13:45:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eGw0-0001cP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 13:39:56 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eGvz-0001cK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 13:39:55 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14eGve-000387-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 13:39:34 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <18498.200103171339@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 13:44:19 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Test signals X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Thanks for the interest in the "Wolf" BPSK trials. To make a start, I intend to transmit a test signal this evening, in order to make available a real signal for people to record and experiment with. Mr. Murphy has intervened as usual, and I have to fix a problem with my synthesiser, but I hope to be QRV around 2000utc. The format of the signal will be: Frequency: 137.5000kHz. If occupied, I will QSY up or down by 50Hz. Power: about 300mW ERP ID: Normal CW at 6wpm, approximately on every hour and half hour, followed by a few minutes of carrier for frequency measurement purposes. The rest of the time, the signal will be BPSK in the Wolf format. This is 10 bits/second, and consists of 96 second frames that repeat continuously. The Wolf program can operate on a signal of length up to about 25 minutes, so if you record from 5 minutes past the hour/half hour, for 25 minutes, you will have a full set of data. However, if the signal is reasonably strong at your QTH, only a few minutes of recording is required. The web pages contain a fair amount of info, but here are some hints from my experience. The signal must be recorded at 8000 samples/sec - I used DL4YHF's Spectrum Laboratory to do this; it also produces a spectrogram at the same time. Most sound editing software seems to offer a choice of sample rate too. The program expects a nominal audio frequency of 800Hz. It does not work well with a very strong signal; I found that with a local signal it was neccessary to reduce signal level to 20 or 30dB below the sound card's overload point to get good results. KK7KA says that signal level should be -20 to -50dB below full scale. The noise level should be at least -6dB on full scale. You can alter this on a recorded signal using sound editing software if neccessary. It is neccessary to calibrate the soundcard sample rate accurately. This can be done by feeding an audio signal with accurately known frequency into the soundcard, recording a few minutes, and then running Wolf in the -m (frequency measure) mode; the true sample rate is then (true f / measured f) x nominal sample rate. In my case, this worked out to 7954.801 samples/sec. It is essential to do this on receive, although the web page info could be interpreted to suggest it isn't You can do a similar thing to determine the frequency error in the receiver; receive an accurately known frequency, run it through Wolf in measure mode, which gives you the frequency offset. Using the Spectrum Lab spectrogram to measure the apparent audio frequency gave very similar results, but with less resolution than the Wolf software. If it does not work first time, you can use the same recorded signal as many times as you like, until the settings are right. Once I had level, sampling rate, and frequency offset correctly set, I got perfect decoding straight away. Hope this is some help - please let me know if you have queries, suggestions for improvements, flames, etc. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8935 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 13:24:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 13:24:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 346 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 13:24:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 13:24:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eGbU-0001Sp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 13:18:44 +0000 Received: from smtp.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.193.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eGbT-0001Sk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 13:18:43 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from default (p0871.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.202.108]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f2HDIKq00614 for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 14:18:20 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <200103171318.f2HDIKq00614@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 14:18:36 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Mad hatter's tea party X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 3/17/01 11:29:00, you wrote: > > Steve, GW4ALG, said: > >>I know that many CW ops were >> hoping that the use of continuous beacons just below 136.0 would >> be stopping soon - especially with the return of CFH. > >The reason for transatlantic QRSS operation below 136kHz is because of CFH, >which is located close to VE1ZJ and VE1ZZ. > >Most of this operation takes place through the night. I have often seen the >136kHz spectrum viewed via Argo, with several QRSS stations a few Hz apart >(below 136) while there are no signals at all in the wide open spaces above >136kHz. >Reminiscent of the Mad Hatter's Tea Party from Alice in Wonderland. > >Regards, >Peter, G3LDO > >e-mail > >Web ----- Peter, and others wishing to compare spectrograms. I am not sure if i see "too much" but overhere it's crowded. Night's are even worse! Have a look at the first third part of this image wich shows the lower part of 136Khz received 1 hour ago. http://home.wanadoo.nl/nl9222/pix/136l202.jpg (29Kb) Or watch all the images at: http://home.wanadoo.nl/nl9222/136pics.htm 73 de Ko Versteeg, NL9222 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19689 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 11:49:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 11:49:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 4115 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 11:49:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 11:49:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eF4k-0000sF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 11:40:50 +0000 Received: from chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eF4j-0000s9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 11:40:49 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-1-11.easynet.co.uk [195.40.206.11]) by chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 0D6FFF829B for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 11:40:27 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000c01c0aed7$c3bcb5e0$0bce28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5337.200103161327@gemini> <005701c0ae34$b88796c0$f29201d5@dave> <3AB29557.49556C59@alg.demon.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Mad hatter's tea party Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 11:29:27 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Steve, GW4ALG, said: >I know that many CW ops were > hoping that the use of continuous beacons just below 136.0 would > be stopping soon - especially with the return of CFH. The reason for transatlantic QRSS operation below 136kHz is because of CFH, which is located close to VE1ZJ and VE1ZZ. Most of this operation takes place through the night. I have often seen the 136kHz spectrum viewed via Argo, with several QRSS stations a few Hz apart (below 136) while there are no signals at all in the wide open spaces above 136kHz. Reminiscent of the Mad Hatter's Tea Party from Alice in Wonderland. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16016 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 11:45:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 11:45:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 14323 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 11:45:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 11:45:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eF4l-0000sL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 11:40:51 +0000 Received: from chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eF4k-0000sE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 11:40:50 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-1-11.easynet.co.uk [195.40.206.11]) by chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 874D2F87B7 for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 11:40:29 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000d01c0aed7$c5359a40$0bce28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000901c0ae0a$789af0e0$32ca28c3@ericadodd> <3AB21F5A.A5CC4C82@virgin.net> Subject: Re: LF: Zip files Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 11:38:51 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I wish to thank all those who responded, both directly and through the reflector, to my query about zipping files. Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5270 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 11:06:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 11:06:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 11662 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 11:06:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 11:06:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eERz-0000gG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 11:00:47 +0000 Received: from ds-img-3.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.136] helo=spdmgaac.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eERy-0000gB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 11:00:46 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id FAA23566 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 05:59:54 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 05:59:31 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Transatlantic To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200103170559_MC2-C91E-9394@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello John (and whoever observes LF on the other side of the Atlantic) >I wish to try this nigth on 135.923 kHz with 30 sec. dotlength from >00.00 to 1:00 UTC and from 4.00 to 5.00 UTC. > >'73 Valerio (IK5ZPV) I would like to join in and give it a try, too. Would 135.9237 kHz be a suitable frequency for 30 seconds or is anybody else using it? If so, I would use it during the same time slot as Valerio (and try to keep it as stabil as possible, trying not to interfere with IK5ZPV). Thanks, best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24079 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 10:44:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 10:44:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 5997 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 10:44:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 10:44:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eE3w-0000WK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 10:35:56 +0000 Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.43]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eE3t-0000WF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 10:35:53 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.97.149]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010317103528.JZHL283.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 10:35:28 +0000 Message-ID: <002901c0aecd$f5c48680$956168d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3AB0D6A9.19741.7C3874@localhost> <3AB2A000.4A183F4E@ns.sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: LF: Bad propagation or QRT ? Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 10:34:01 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Mike have you posted those pics yet. Were they OK? > 73 de John VE1ZJ John, The pics were very useful, thanks. The first set showed my 10s dot CW but only the dashes appeared because of the integration time, but it is certainly possible to see the dashes in the right place. The next set were magnificent and I was very pleased to see them. I made a composite pic so that the whole of 'XDV' is displayed. I haven't posted them on the site yet as I keep forgetting to e-mail myself from work where I made the composite pic. I am going in to work today (via a pub that is celebrating St Patrick's Day with cheap Guinness!) and will pick up the file then. Check the site this evening (Sat). Sorry if I gave anyone the impression that you were stopping the listening tests. I stopped this end because I did not want to put you to any further trouble after many nights of monioring. If there are more tests to do I will be there. Certainly some summer tests would be excellent (you may remember that W1BB did some summer 160m tests years ago) but the limitting facor is going to be QRN - though QRS is nowhere near as badly affected by QRN as audible Morse is. CUL. de Mike, G3XDV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21996 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 10:16:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 10:16:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 29379 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 10:16:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 10:16:38 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eDfC-0000N3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 10:10:22 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mta09-acc.tin.it ([212.216.176.40] helo=fep09-svc.tin.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eDf9-0000Mb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 10:10:19 +0000 Received: from mailsrv.dii.unisi.it ([212.171.197.137]) by fep09-svc.tin.it (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with ESMTP id <20010317100935.MEMJ25493.fep09-svc.tin.it@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 11:09:35 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AB3369C.38F50247@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 11:04:12 +0100 From: "valerio gabbani" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Transatlantic Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello John and all I wish to try this nigth on 135.923 kHz with 30 sec. dotlength from 00.00 to 1:00 UTC and from 4.00 to 5.00 UTC. '73 Valerio (IK5ZPV) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13871 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 08:58:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 08:58:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 14139 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 08:58:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 08:58:11 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eCQQ-0008Tl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 08:51:02 +0000 Received: from imo-r12.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.66]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14eCQO-0008Tg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 08:51:00 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-r12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.75.11b6dfa9 (17377) for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 03:50:03 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <75.11b6dfa9.27e47f3b@aol.com> Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 03:50:03 EST Subject: LF: "Wolf" BPSK tests anyone? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Disposition: Inline X-Mailer: AOL 6.0 for Windows DE sub 217 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Jim and others,

I also like to do some RX-Tests with WOLF, because that seems to be a very
interesting mode (not only because of its nice name hi).
Because I always have to drive up to the club station DF0WD and take my PC
with me, it would be nice if you can give us some 'time schedule' when your
transmissions will take place.
With your planned ERP, you can leave the TX running for a few hours.
I hope the frequency stability of my RX will be good enough this time to get
a first impression of how WOLF works 'on air'.

Btw: Programmer's Info:
There is something going on with WOLF (the communication mode), Stewart
(KK7KA) will try to put the WOLF code into a DLL which can be called by other
programs (like XYZ.exe) to give it some real time capability. But that is
something **planned** for the future because Stewart is a little short of
time.


So, thanks Jim for the test transmission in advance,   see you later,


73's from the 'living' Wolf (DL4YHF, who is not the inventor of WOLF)


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21327 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 04:20:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 04:20:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 10193 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 04:20:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 04:20:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14e84l-00076Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 04:12:23 +0000 Received: from fep02.swip.net ([130.244.199.130] helo=fep02-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14e84k-00076T-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 04:12:22 +0000 Received: from W98 ([212.151.9.144]) by fep02-svc.swip.net (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20010317041200.BYFN10434.fep02-svc.swip.net@W98> for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 05:12:00 +0100 Message-ID: <001201c0ae98$4ee582e0$900997d4@W98.swipnet.se> From: "C Andersson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: SV: SV: LF: Transatlantic QRSS Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 05:11:13 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: W4DEX wrote: > I have seen several faint lines on Argo at 135.92456. >Can anyone confirm SM6PXJ's exact frequency? I think I started on 135.9246 and slowly drifted towards 135.9245 during 1,5 hours. Sorry for not beeing "spot on". >John Currie wrote: >> >> Hi chris congratulations. your sigs are O"O copy first seen around >> 0030 >> 73 de john VE1ZJ. That's good news... Thanks 73 Christer sm6pxj From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27767 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 02:10:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 02:10:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 7500 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 02:10:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 02:10:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14e64w-0006Lq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 02:04:26 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mtiwmhc27.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.52]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14e64u-0006Ll-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 02:04:25 +0000 Received: from att.net ([12.77.27.176]) by mtiwmhc27.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20010317020318.EYTF17950.mtiwmhc27.worldnet.att.net@att.net> for ; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 02:03:18 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AB2C600.7F880BFB@att.net> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 21:03:44 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: SV: LF: Transatlantic QRSS References: <001801c0ae68$1f6c58c0$276397d4@W98.swipnet.se> <3AB30103.CEB20E92@ns.sympatico.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: QRN here in North Carolina isn't as bad tonight as it has been the last several weeks. I have seen several faint lines on Argo at 135.92456. Can anyone confirm SM6PXJ's exact frequency? I'm also carefully watching for Laurie's DFCW on 135.922. Dexter John Currie wrote: > > Hi chris congratulations. your sigs are O"O copy first seen around > 0030 > 73 de john VE1ZJ. > > C Andersson wrote: > > > Hello John and the group, > > > > I'll be on 135.9245 between 00-01 and between 04-05 UTC tonight. > > 30 sec dots. > > I hope this fq is not already in use by anyone. > > > > /sm6pxj From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3264 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 02:08:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 02:08:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 19855 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 02:08:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 02:08:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14e63W-0006Lj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 02:02:58 +0000 Received: from outbound.charter.net ([24.216.159.200] helo=front003.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14e63U-0006Le-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 02:02:57 +0000 Received: from [24.216.235.182] (HELO johncellar) by front003.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4b8) with SMTP id 19761857 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 21:01:31 -0500 Message-ID: <000901c0ae86$31bb8f00$0300a8c0@charter.net> From: "John Andrews" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5337.200103161327@gemini> <005701c0ae34$b88796c0$f29201d5@dave> <3AB29557.49556C59@alg.demon.co.uk> Subject: LF: G3AQC DFCW Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 21:01:34 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Very nice copy of G3AQC dfcw on 135.922 kHz, 0115 - 0200 here in Central Massachusetts. Lots of static crashes, but a good signal. John Andrews, W1TAG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24718 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 01:24:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 01:24:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 27841 invoked from network); 17 Mar 2001 01:24:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 17 Mar 2001 01:24:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14e5I3-000631-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 01:13:55 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14e5I2-00062w-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Mar 2001 01:13:54 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.94.18]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 21:12:46 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AB30103.CEB20E92@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sat, 17 Mar 2001 01:15:31 -0500 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: SV: LF: Transatlantic QRSS References: <001801c0ae68$1f6c58c0$276397d4@W98.swipnet.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi chris congratulations. your sigs are O"O copy first seen around 0030 73 de john VE1ZJ. C Andersson wrote: > Hello John and the group, > > I'll be on 135.9245 between 00-01 and between 04-05 UTC tonight. > 30 sec dots. > I hope this fq is not already in use by anyone. > > /sm6pxj From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25568 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 23:41:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 23:41:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 27976 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 23:41:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 23:41:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14e3g6-0005Tp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 23:30:38 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14e3g5-0005Tk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 23:30:37 +0000 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14e3fj-000Ert-0A; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 23:30:16 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AB2A1E6.42AFFFBA@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 23:29:42 +0000 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Activity from G6RO References: <3AA87E06.CFB95B69@alg.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear All, I received some very sad news today. Last week, I wrote: > Ron has written to say that Doris is very poorly and is spending > some time in hospital. The hospital visiting schedule, among > other things, means that Ron will be less active than usual. Earlier this evening, Bob G8RW telephoned me to say that Doris, the wife of Ron G6RO, died on Thursday 8th March. They had been married for 61 years. I later had a long telephone conversation with Ron, and we talked about many things. It is clear to me that Ron is looking forward to meeting his LF friends again on 136 kHz, just as soon as circumstances allow. Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20512 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 23:35:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 23:35:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 9546 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 23:35:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 23:35:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14e3g3-0005Ti-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 23:30:35 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.39]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14e3g2-0005Td-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 23:30:34 +0000 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14e3fh-000K5R-0B for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 23:30:13 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AB29557.49556C59@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 22:36:07 +0000 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: "Wolf" BPSK tests anyone? References: <5337.200103161327@gemini> <005701c0ae34$b88796c0$f29201d5@dave> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave G3YMC wrote: > May I politely remind us all that the agreed band plan is for data to be in > the 137.4-137.6 range. Use of slow CW below 136.0 (band plan beacon > section) has seemed to have become common for transatlantic qsos, but there > is no reason to continue this practice for local tests. Thanks for the reminder, Dave. I know that many CW ops were hoping that the use of continuous beacons just below 136.0 would be stopping soon - especially with the return of CFH. To shift the QRSS/data modes back up to the top end of the band would be a significant help to those experimenters using receivers with only 'average' IF filters. Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15549 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 22:32:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 22:32:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 9961 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 22:32:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 22:32:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14e2gx-00059k-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 22:27:27 +0000 Received: from fep02.swip.net ([130.244.199.130] helo=fep02-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14e2gw-00059f-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 22:27:26 +0000 Received: from W98 ([212.151.99.39]) by fep02-svc.swip.net (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20010316222705.BTDS10434.fep02-svc.swip.net@W98> for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 23:27:05 +0100 Message-ID: <001801c0ae68$1f6c58c0$276397d4@W98.swipnet.se> From: "C Andersson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: SV: LF: Transatlantic QRSS Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 23:26:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello John and the group, I'll be on 135.9245 between 00-01 and between 04-05 UTC tonight. 30 sec dots. I hope this fq is not already in use by anyone. /sm6pxj From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16509 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 21:30:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 21:30:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 14303 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 21:30:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 21:30:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14e1ZH-0004kU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 21:15:27 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14e1ZF-0004kP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 21:15:26 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.63.31]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:36:12 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AB2D1B5.67429069@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 18:53:42 -0800 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic QRSS References: <25392.200103161701@gemini> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Jim , Yes i agree. I believe I have seen "T" copy from DF6NM. would like to try again. Also would like to look for SM6PXJ again es IK5ZPV 73 de John VE1ZJ James Moritz wrote: > Dear LF Group, > > Congratulations to VE1ZJ, VE1ZZ, G3LDO, VA3LK and G3AQC on > their awards - Also to G3XDV on finally getting across with his > "QRP" signal. > > For possible further transatlantic QRSS activity, how about some > signals from mainland Europe and Scandinavia? As far as I can > remember, the only non-G stations seen on the other side of the > pond so far have been OK1FIG (with the aid of a huge commercial > antenna), and CT1DRP. I have a personal motive too; it would > make an interesting change from 'XDV's signal trying to melt it's > way through my preselector! > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7614 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 21:21:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 21:21:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 24926 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 21:21:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 21:21:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14e1WB-0004kM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 21:12:15 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14e1W9-0004kG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 21:12:14 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.63.31]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:31:35 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AB2D09A.3887155B@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 18:49:01 -0800 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE:"Wolf" BPSK tests anyone? References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03D8@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Andy I'm willing to try . Currently only have ARGO with 30 sec dots, but could download later version es try at 60 or 90sec dots 73 de John VE1ZJ Talbot Andrew wrote: > How about stations in the 40mW range, even less than Mike ? > > We do have the advantage of absolute frequency accuracy. > > Andy > > > Hi all, I haven't said I have quit transatlantic testing. In > > fact I would > > like to continue looking for stations in the 0.1 to 0.5 watt > > erp range. I > > > > -- > The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence > is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). > For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, > or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is > prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19415 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 18:22:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 18:22:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 7956 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 18:22:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 18:22:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dym9-0003pW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 18:16:33 +0000 Received: from cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.177]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dym7-0003pR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 18:16:32 +0000 Received: from modem-70.elros.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.189.70] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14dyk7-0005dG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 18:14:27 +0000 Message-ID: <001001c0ae45$1ed7a7c0$46bd883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. Testing Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 18:15:01 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
John Currie wrote "I will be looking for DFCW or QRSS 30sec dots..."
In that case I will run my 350mW beacon tonight from 0000utc
on 135.922. DFCW 30sec. Anyone care to join me?  I am interested in exploiting this mode for faster DX QSOs,we still hav'nt exhausted the possibilities. 73s Laurie.  
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16455 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 17:07:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 17:07:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 12007 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 17:06:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 17:06:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dxby-0003PG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 17:01:58 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dxbx-0003PB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 17:01:57 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14dxbb-0002Fu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 17:01:35 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <25392.200103161701@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 17:06:19 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Transatlantic QRSS X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Congratulations to VE1ZJ, VE1ZZ, G3LDO, VA3LK and G3AQC on their awards - Also to G3XDV on finally getting across with his "QRP" signal. For possible further transatlantic QRSS activity, how about some signals from mainland Europe and Scandinavia? As far as I can remember, the only non-G stations seen on the other side of the pond so far have been OK1FIG (with the aid of a huge commercial antenna), and CT1DRP. I have a personal motive too; it would make an interesting change from 'XDV's signal trying to melt it's way through my preselector! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23056 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 16:23:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 16:23:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 1430 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 16:23:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 16:23:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dwuR-00038s-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:16:59 +0000 Received: from protactinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.176] helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dwuQ-00038n-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:16:58 +0000 Received: from [213.1.146.242] (helo=dave) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14dwu4-0000J9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:16:37 +0000 Message-ID: <005701c0ae34$b88796c0$f29201d5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5337.200103161327@gemini> Subject: LF: Re: "Wolf" BPSK tests anyone? Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:53:41 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC James Moritz wrote: >The most important thing seems to be which frequency to use; from this end, >the obvious choice seems to be either in the >135.9 - 136.0kHz, or 137.4 - 137.6kHz ranges May I politely remind us all that the agreed band plan is for data to be in the 137.4-137.6 range. Use of slow CW below 136.0 (band plan beacon section) has seemed to have become common for transatlantic qsos, but there is no reason to continue this practice for local tests. 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@btinternet.com dsergeant@iee.org http://www.btinternet.com/~dsergeant From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18962 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 16:01:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 16:01:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 10682 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 16:01:57 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 16:01:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dwZG-00030V-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:55:06 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dwZF-00030Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:55:05 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA235656 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:54:43 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010316165423.21c7d01a@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:54:23 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: "Wolf" BPSK tests anyone? In-reply-to: <5337.200103161327@gemini> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Jim, I just downloaded the WOLF software. I'll try to get it running during the weekend, I will let you know when I can receive WOLF. You're 599+ with 1 Watt ERP so I'd prefer something in the mW range. 73, Rik ON7YD At 13:31 16/03/01 +0000, you wrote: >Dear LF Group, > >Since transatlantic QRSS activity seems to have ceased for the >time being, I thought I would give KK7KA's "Wolf" a try. This is >essentially BPSK, but the encoding and decoding scheme is >designed so that a weak signal can be effectively integrated over a >long period. The current version of the software operates with a >fixed-length 15 character message; with good SNR, this will >decode in 24 seconds, but with a weak signal, the software will >operate on up to about 25 minutes of received signal, hopefully >leading to a significant improvement in performance. The US >Lowfers seem to have been doing quite well with it. There is quite >a bit of info on http://www.scgroup.com/ham/wolf.html, and also >http://www.highnoonfilm.com/xmgr/updates/wolf.htm . > >I have now tested my Decca TX with a specially built BPSK keyer >which has the accurate timing required by Wolf. I am able to >receive my own signals, and decode them successfully, so I know >it works! Both the carrier frequency, and the timing of the data >should be within 1 part in 10^7, which seems to be more than >adequate. > >The requirements for receiving this mode are basically just >receiver plus soundcard/PC, but great care is needed in initially >calibrating both the system frequency offsets, and the errors in the >soundcard sampling rate, in order to successfully decode weak >signals. This is critical for successful operation. The software >includes some utilities to help do this. The signal processing is "off >line"; first you record a period of received signal at 8k samples/sec >using the software of you choice (I used DL4YHF's Spectrum Lab, >which conveniently allows you to display a spectrogram at the >same time). Then, you run the recorded .wav file through the Wolf >program, together with the appropriate calibration factors. The >program prints the decoded message. This can be repeated if >neccessary, until you are happy with the results. > >I gather VA3LK is also nearly ready to start trials using this mode, >so if anyone is interested in trying some tests, I would be happy to >oblige. The most important thing seems to be which frequency to >use; from this end, the obvious choice seems to be either in the >135.9 - 136.0kHz, or 137.4 - 137.6kHz ranges. I can vary ERP >from about 1W down to 1mW, or less if you like, and set frequency >in 0.1Hz steps. Let me know what signal would best suit your >needs. I should be able to be QRV most evenings over the next >couple of weeks. > >Cheers, Jim Moritz >73 de M0BMU > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5372 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 15:52:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 15:52:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 22899 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 15:51:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 15:51:56 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dwQ4-0002v9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:45:36 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dwQ2-0002v4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:45:35 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id PAA31427; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:47:53 GMT Received: (qmail 8943 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 16:36:41 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 16:36:41 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id QAA26845; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:23:48 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma026712; Fri, 16 Mar 01 16:23:34 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:50:24 +0000 Received: by frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:44:55 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03D8@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE:"Wolf" BPSK tests anyone? Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:45:04 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: How about stations in the 40mW range, even less than Mike ? We do have the advantage of absolute frequency accuracy. Andy > Hi all, I haven't said I have quit transatlantic testing. In > fact I would > like to continue looking for stations in the 0.1 to 0.5 watt > erp range. I > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26418 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 15:28:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 15:28:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 16526 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 15:27:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 15:27:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dvxx-0002id-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:16:33 +0000 Received: from hugo.fen-net.de ([194.95.193.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dvxr-0002iV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:16:28 +0000 Received: from 194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de (dialin-nbg-227.fen-net.de [195.37.215.107]) by hugo.fen-net.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA08135 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:15:38 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <005c01c0ae2b$f83f5220$65d725c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de> From: "Walter Staubach" To: "Reflektor" Subject: LF: EF50 Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:14:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------040605070309090809040205" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040605070309090809040205 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Thanks, Brian, for the pictures. Yes, that they are.
But about modern times: How about a QRSS-test on - lets say 137.695 this night (fri/sat) or next (sat/sun) at 23utc? I think Markus, DF6NM, would like to join.
He already saw you days ago.
73 Walter DJ2LF
 
--------------040605070309090809040205 Content-Type: image/gif; name="ATT07516.gif" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="ATT07516.gif" R0lGODlhFAAUAPcAAP//////zP//mf//Zv//M///AP/M///MzP/Mmf/MZv/MM//MAP+Z//+Z zP+Zmf+ZZv+ZM/+ZAP9m//9mzP9mmf9mZv9mM/9mAP8z//8zzP8zmf8zZv8zM/8zAP8A//8A zP8Amf8AZv8AM/8AAMz//8z/zMz/mcz/Zsz/M8z/AMzM/8zMzMzMmczMZszMM8zMAMyZ/8yZ zMyZmcyZZsyZM8yZAMxm/8xmzMxmmcxmZsxmM8xmAMwz/8wzzMwzmcwzZswzM8wzAMwA/8wA zMwAmcwAZswAM8wAAJn//5n/zJn/mZn/Zpn/M5n/AJnM/5nMzJnMmZnMZpnMM5nMAJmZ/5mZ zJmZmZmZZpmZM5mZAJlm/5lmzJlmmZlmZplmM5lmAJkz/5kzzJkzmZkzZpkzM5kzAJkA/5kA zJkAmZkAZpkAM5kAAGb//2b/zGb/mWb/Zmb/M2b/AGbM/2bMzGbMmWbMZmbMM2bMAGaZ/2aZ zGaZmWaZZmaZM2aZAGZm/2ZmzGZmmWZmZmZmM2ZmAGYz/2YzzGYzmWYzZmYzM2YzAGYA/2YA zGYAmWYAZmYAM2YAADP//zP/zDP/mTP/ZjP/MzP/ADPM/zPMzDPMmTPMZjPMMzPMADOZ/zOZ zDOZmTOZZjOZMzOZADNm/zNmzDNmmTNmZjNmMzNmADMz/zMzzDMzmTMzZjMzMzMzADMA/zMA zDMAmTMAZjMAMzMAAAD//wD/zAD/mQD/ZgD/MwD/AADM/wDMzADMmQDMZgDMMwDMAACZ/wCZ zACZmQCZZgCZMwCZAABm/wBmzABmmQBmZgBmMwBmAAAz/wAzzAAzmQAzZgAzMwAzAAAA/wAA zAAAmQAAZgAAMwAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAA AAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAAACwAAAAAFAAUAEAIQwBJCBxIsKBBAAgTKlyYUCDD hwsdQpwoceLDihYjksh4cSNHjR9BhmzocSQAjCFRflTJkWVGlxZhUiw5UiZEgzhzBgQAOw== --------------040605070309090809040205-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22398 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 15:26:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 15:26:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 10681 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 15:25:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 15:25:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dvtO-0002hD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:11:50 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dvtN-0002h7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:11:49 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.9.89]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:04:08 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AB2A000.4A183F4E@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:21:37 -0800 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Bad propagation or QRT ? References: <3AB0D6A9.19741.7C3874@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike have you posted those pics yet. Were they OK? 73 de John VE1ZJ Mike Dennison wrote: > > Since a few evenings I don't hear nor see anymore the Greek > > Rtty station. It's just the bad propagation, or did they QRT ? > > TNX. > > I have not heard it for several days. The last time it went off, it came back > several kHz from where it was before. Will it return on the same frequency? > > Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) > http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5317 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 15:24:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 15:24:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 7971 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 15:24:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 15:24:26 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dvrv-0002gv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:10:19 +0000 Received: from imo-m02.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dvru-0002gS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:10:18 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-m02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.a0.1178605b (17526) for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 10:08:54 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 10:08:53 EST Subject: Re: LF: Zip files To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 3/16/01 9:18:40 AM Eastern Standard Time, stewart.bryant@virgin.net writes: << There is also the danger of accidental execution in the browser. >> I always suspected I might expire while waiting for graphics-intensive pages to load, but this could represent a whole new danger. :-) 73, John From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19280 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 15:15:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 15:15:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 13270 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 15:15:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 15:15:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dvqs-0002gO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:09:14 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dvqr-0002gI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:09:13 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.9.89]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:01:25 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AB29F5D.A3AF00FA@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:18:54 -0800 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: "Wolf" BPSK tests anyone? References: <5337.200103161327@gemini> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, I haven't said I have quit transatlantic testing. In fact I would like to continue looking for stations in the 0.1 to 0.5 watt erp range. I consider the reception of G3XDV at "O" copy this week to be an encouragement to continue. If anyone wants to continue please let me know by E-mail Also I will be setting up an antenna for transmitting at summer QTH in may if anyone wants to try for summer QSO. I will be looking for dfcw or qrss 30 second dots 73 de John VE1ZJ James Moritz wrote: > Dear LF Group, > > Since transatlantic QRSS activity seems to have ceased for the > time being, I thought I would give KK7KA's "Wolf" a try. This is > essentially BPSK, but the encoding and decoding scheme is > designed so that a weak signal can be effectively integrated over a > long period. The current version of the software operates with a > fixed-length 15 character message; with good SNR, this will > decode in 24 seconds, but with a weak signal, the software will > operate on up to about 25 minutes of received signal, hopefully > leading to a significant improvement in performance. The US > Lowfers seem to have been doing quite well with it. There is quite > a bit of info on http://www.scgroup.com/ham/wolf.html, and also > http://www.highnoonfilm.com/xmgr/updates/wolf.htm . > > I have now tested my Decca TX with a specially built BPSK keyer > which has the accurate timing required by Wolf. I am able to > receive my own signals, and decode them successfully, so I know > it works! Both the carrier frequency, and the timing of the data > should be within 1 part in 10^7, which seems to be more than > adequate. > > The requirements for receiving this mode are basically just > receiver plus soundcard/PC, but great care is needed in initially > calibrating both the system frequency offsets, and the errors in the > soundcard sampling rate, in order to successfully decode weak > signals. This is critical for successful operation. The software > includes some utilities to help do this. The signal processing is "off > line"; first you record a period of received signal at 8k samples/sec > using the software of you choice (I used DL4YHF's Spectrum Lab, > which conveniently allows you to display a spectrogram at the > same time). Then, you run the recorded .wav file through the Wolf > program, together with the appropriate calibration factors. The > program prints the decoded message. This can be repeated if > neccessary, until you are happy with the results. > > I gather VA3LK is also nearly ready to start trials using this mode, > so if anyone is interested in trying some tests, I would be happy to > oblige. The most important thing seems to be which frequency to > use; from this end, the obvious choice seems to be either in the > 135.9 - 136.0kHz, or 137.4 - 137.6kHz ranges. I can vary ERP > from about 1W down to 1mW, or less if you like, and set frequency > in 0.1Hz steps. Let me know what signal would best suit your > needs. I should be able to be QRV most evenings over the next > couple of weeks. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18411 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 15:14:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 15:14:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 11642 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 15:14:55 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 15:14:55 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dvle-0002cz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:03:50 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from aurora.eexi.gr ([195.167.28.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dvlc-0002cu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 15:03:48 +0000 Received: from odin (ppp77.dialup.eexi.gr [195.167.28.141]) by aurora.eexi.gr (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f2GF4AX29945 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 17:04:10 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010316160158.006f27f4@aurora.eexi.gr> X-Sender: sv1xv@aurora.eexi.gr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 16:01:58 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Costas Krallis" Subject: LF: Re: EF50 In-reply-to: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03D2@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov .uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 08:37 16/03/2001 -0000, you wrote: > Amongst the mine of nostalgia out there, I there anyone who understands > valve circuit topology and can tell us if the circuit I described really > can be considered as a cascode but using just a single pentode. According to ye olde electronics textbooks, the cascode circuit is electrically equivalent to a pentode, having the advantage of the lower noise of the triode valve/tube. Costas +------------------------------------------------------------+ | Costas Krallis SV1XV * LOC KM18UA | | P.O.Box 3066 * E-Mail: sv1xv@eexi.gr | | GR-10210 Athens * PGP key: 0x3BDBBC34 | | GREECE * http://www.qsl.net/sv1xv/ | | * http://w4u.eexi.gr/~sv1xv/ | +------------------------------------------------------------+ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6728 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 14:19:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 14:19:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 27522 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 14:19:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 14:19:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dv0l-0002Mr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:15:23 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jaws.cisco.com ([198.135.0.150] helo=cisco.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dv0j-0002Mm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:15:22 +0000 Received: from virgin.net (stbryant-isdn-home.cisco.com [10.49.137.202]) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id OAA25551 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:14:52 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AB21F5A.A5CC4C82@virgin.net> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 14:12:43 +0000 From: "Stewart Bryant" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Zip files References: <000901c0ae0a$789af0e0$32ca28c3@ericadodd> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Peter Since most people have the capability for unzipping, it is perhaps better to use the .zip format rather than the .exe format. You always know what you are getting with a .zip and have complete control over the operation. With a .exe you have to trust the site and trust that it has not been hacked and a substitute program put in its place. There is also the danger of accidental execution in the browser. Just mp 2d 73 Stewart G3YSX g3ldo wrote: > I have a group of small DOS .exe files, plus some .txt data files > (associated with measuring antenna feed impedance) that I would like to put > on to my web site for the benefit of LF experimenters. > I have PKZIP and UNZIP, which I know how to use but these are DOS programs > and are probably not appropriate. > I could use WINZIP but I have never used this before. > The one I like best is the .exe file that, when run, explodes all the zipped > files automatically. > Can anyone advise me? > > Regards, > Peter, G3LDO > > e-mail > > Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23285 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 13:32:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 13:32:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 10477 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 13:32:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 13:32:52 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14duGU-00026O-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 13:27:34 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14duGT-00026J-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 13:27:33 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14duG5-0004BY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 13:27:09 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <5337.200103161327@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 13:31:53 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: "Wolf" BPSK tests anyone? X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Since transatlantic QRSS activity seems to have ceased for the time being, I thought I would give KK7KA's "Wolf" a try. This is essentially BPSK, but the encoding and decoding scheme is designed so that a weak signal can be effectively integrated over a long period. The current version of the software operates with a fixed-length 15 character message; with good SNR, this will decode in 24 seconds, but with a weak signal, the software will operate on up to about 25 minutes of received signal, hopefully leading to a significant improvement in performance. The US Lowfers seem to have been doing quite well with it. There is quite a bit of info on http://www.scgroup.com/ham/wolf.html, and also http://www.highnoonfilm.com/xmgr/updates/wolf.htm . I have now tested my Decca TX with a specially built BPSK keyer which has the accurate timing required by Wolf. I am able to receive my own signals, and decode them successfully, so I know it works! Both the carrier frequency, and the timing of the data should be within 1 part in 10^7, which seems to be more than adequate. The requirements for receiving this mode are basically just receiver plus soundcard/PC, but great care is needed in initially calibrating both the system frequency offsets, and the errors in the soundcard sampling rate, in order to successfully decode weak signals. This is critical for successful operation. The software includes some utilities to help do this. The signal processing is "off line"; first you record a period of received signal at 8k samples/sec using the software of you choice (I used DL4YHF's Spectrum Lab, which conveniently allows you to display a spectrogram at the same time). Then, you run the recorded .wav file through the Wolf program, together with the appropriate calibration factors. The program prints the decoded message. This can be repeated if neccessary, until you are happy with the results. I gather VA3LK is also nearly ready to start trials using this mode, so if anyone is interested in trying some tests, I would be happy to oblige. The most important thing seems to be which frequency to use; from this end, the obvious choice seems to be either in the 135.9 - 136.0kHz, or 137.4 - 137.6kHz ranges. I can vary ERP from about 1W down to 1mW, or less if you like, and set frequency in 0.1Hz steps. Let me know what signal would best suit your needs. I should be able to be QRV most evenings over the next couple of weeks. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21574 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 12:13:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 12:13:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 28227 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 12:13:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 12:13:42 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dszJ-0001aw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:05:45 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dszI-0001ar-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:05:44 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id MAA01169; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:08:03 GMT Received: (qmail 9663 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 12:56:51 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 12:56:51 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id MAA12903; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:44:00 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma012741; Fri, 16 Mar 01 12:42:38 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:09:26 +0000 Received: by frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:03:55 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03D6@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Zip files Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:00:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Winzip is only an envelope for PKZIP and UNZIP so these two progs are still perfectly valid. Packaged with these should be a utility called ZIP2EXE. Just type ZIP2EXE XXXXXX where XXXXXX is your ZIP file produced under PKZIP Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: g3ldo [mailto:g3ldo@ukonline.co.uk] > Sent: 2001-03-16 11:15 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: Zip files > > > I have a group of small DOS .exe files, plus some .txt data files > (associated with measuring antenna feed impedance) that I > would like to put > on to my web site for the benefit of LF experimenters. > I have PKZIP and UNZIP, which I know how to use but these are > DOS programs > and are probably not appropriate. > I could use WINZIP but I have never used this before. > The one I like best is the .exe file that, when run, explodes > all the zipped > files automatically. > Can anyone advise me? > > > Regards, > Peter, G3LDO > > e-mail > > Web > > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10173 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 12:13:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 12:13:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 20202 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 12:13:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 12:13:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dszl-0001b5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:06:13 +0000 Received: from [195.47.110.226] (helo=dell1.gmccz.cz.gmc.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dszk-0001aU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:06:12 +0000 Received: from p (p.maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net [192.168.1.22]) by dell1.gmccz.cz.gmc.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id G8RYL71Q; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 13:04:06 +0100 Message-ID: <007601c0ae10$0e760820$1601a8c0@maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000901c0ae0a$789af0e0$32ca28c3@ericadodd> Subject: LF: Re: Zip files Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:55:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: For example, you can get PK250DOS.EXE from http://www.pkware.com/shareware/download/pk250dos.html this package contains also ZIP2EXE with which you can convert ZIP file to self-extract ZIP. All in your favourite DOS. 73 Petr OK1FIG ----- Original Message ----- From: g3ldo To: Sent: Friday, March 16, 2001 12:15 PM Subject: LF: Zip files > I have a group of small DOS .exe files, plus some .txt data files > (associated with measuring antenna feed impedance) that I would like to put > on to my web site for the benefit of LF experimenters. > I have PKZIP and UNZIP, which I know how to use but these are DOS programs > and are probably not appropriate. > I could use WINZIP but I have never used this before. > The one I like best is the .exe file that, when run, explodes all the zipped > files automatically. > Can anyone advise me? > > > Regards, > Peter, G3LDO > > e-mail > > Web > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8366 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 11:41:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 11:41:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 2295 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 11:41:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 11:41:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dsSp-0001OL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:32:11 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dsSo-0001OF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:32:10 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:26:01 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:25:53 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: who is ufo? Message-ID: <3AB1F841.27037.7C64D0@localhost> In-reply-to: <14di8t-2HNKyGC@fwd00.sul.t-online.com> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > BTW. what stn is transmitting a carrier on 137.052,0 kHz at night vy strong, at > day vy weak. > regards > Uwe/dj8wx jo43sv This is CFH, a Canadian maritime station. It is not on all the time but is a very good guide to DX propagation levels. Note that a good signal during the day usually means a poor one at night - which is not what you might expect. 73 Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 284 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 11:35:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 11:35:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 20554 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 11:35:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 11:35:35 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dsMa-0001Nb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:25:44 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dsMV-0001NU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:25:39 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id LAA22792; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:27:57 GMT Received: (qmail 2717 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 12:16:46 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 12:16:46 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id MAA03568; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 12:03:54 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma003458; Fri, 16 Mar 01 12:03:29 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:30:16 +0000 Received: by frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:24:48 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03D5@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: EF50 Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:24:59 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In the early 1980s the VMP4 was going to answer both our VHF power amplifier and wide dynamic range receiver problems, so I scrounged some freebies; couldn't afford to buy any, they were too expensive. But it never happened, there were plenty of other devices to do the job and the VMP4 never really went anywhere. Nowadays we have a huge range of power MOSFETS for switching (very cheap) and others for RF, (expensive) and a plethora of components for building very good receivers - which are usually quite cheap. Its all down to mass production and who wants what components. Now who's showing the nostalgia syndrome :-( Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: Alberto di Bene [mailto:dibene@usa.net] > Sent: 2001-03-16 10:44 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: Re: EF50 > > > Rik Strobbe wrote: > > > >A pity, I threw away some old VMP4 devices only a few > weeks ago in a > > Oh, no ! I have been in search of VMP4 for years .....without > luck, and you > throw them away...:-( There is no justice in this world ... :-) > > 73 Alberto I2PHD > > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12175 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 11:21:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 11:21:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 1239 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 11:20:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 11:20:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dsAa-0001IW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:13:20 +0000 Received: from amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.45]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dsAZ-0001IR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:13:19 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-3-50.easynet.co.uk [195.40.202.50]) by amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 87563181FB for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:10:57 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000901c0ae0a$789af0e0$32ca28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Zip files Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:15:09 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have a group of small DOS .exe files, plus some .txt data files (associated with measuring antenna feed impedance) that I would like to put on to my web site for the benefit of LF experimenters. I have PKZIP and UNZIP, which I know how to use but these are DOS programs and are probably not appropriate. I could use WINZIP but I have never used this before. The one I like best is the .exe file that, when run, explodes all the zipped files automatically. Can anyone advise me? Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7120 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 10:52:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 10:52:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 29128 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 10:52:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 10:52:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14drjZ-00017E-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 10:45:25 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14drjX-000179-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 10:45:24 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.147]) by d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.COM (1.0.0) with ESMTP id KAA81872 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 10:28:07 GMT Received: from usa.net (ss7.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.72]) by d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id KAA44018 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 10:44:15 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AB1EE70.BDBDBCA@usa.net> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 11:44:00 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: EF50 References: <3.0.1.16.20010316103131.2c976660@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik Strobbe wrote: > >A pity, I threw away some old VMP4 devices only a few weeks ago in a Oh, no ! I have been in search of VMP4 for years .....without luck, and you throw them away...:-( There is no justice in this world ... :-) 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25701 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 10:08:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 10:08:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 20735 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 10:08:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 10:08:40 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dr3c-0000ro-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 10:02:04 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from bucky-rwcmex.excite.com ([198.3.99.218] helo=bucky.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dr3b-0000rj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 10:02:03 +0000 Received: from zero.excite.com ([199.172.152.241]) by bucky.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010316100109.QQPO233.bucky.excite.com@zero.excite.com> for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 02:01:09 -0800 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <19506029.984736869810.JavaMail.imail@zero.excite.com> Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 02:00:49 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Ceramic insulators (AD) MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 62.253.64.5 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi, Put me down for a pack please Alan. I will put a cheque in the post as soon as you confirm that I am not too late. Sorry to hear you have been ill. Nothing serious I hope. Graham and Steve are due here on Sunday with a catapult. So hopefully my signal should improve soon. Best 73, John & keep up the good work. _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12188 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 09:38:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 09:38:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 26384 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 09:38:31 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 09:38:31 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dqaj-0000fW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:32:13 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dqai-0000fQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:32:12 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA144234 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 10:31:49 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010316103131.2c976660@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 10:31:31 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: RE: EF50 In-reply-to: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03D2@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov .uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Andy, >A pity, I threw away some old VMP4 devices only a few weeks ago in a >clear out of ancient and obsolete semiconductors as part of teh shack >rebuild, they would have been quite good for an active antenna. It is a variant on Murphy's law : you will not need a component until you have thrown (given) it away. Due to the same law : - when you drop anything heavy (hammer, screwdriver) it will always land on something fragile or when you drop a sandwich it will alway come with the 'buttered' side down (law of selective gravity) - when you need x components to built a project you will always find x-1 components available (law of selective statistics) - any expensive component protected by a fuse will protect the fuse by 'melting' first - the chance that a component gets defective is proportional to its value and so on ... 73, Rik ON7YD PS : Sespite all semiconductor theories we were told the truth is that any transistor or IC just works on some smoke that is kept inside. Proof : put in an IC / transistor the wrong way or increase voltage / current above the allowed level and wait until the smoke comes out. The device will not work anymore afterwards. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15722 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 08:45:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 08:45:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 11575 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 08:45:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 08:45:00 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dpl0-0000KD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 08:38:46 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dpkm-0000K6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 08:38:32 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id IAA12560; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 08:40:50 GMT Received: (qmail 5551 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 09:29:39 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 09:29:39 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id JAA22880; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:16:48 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma022765; Fri, 16 Mar 01 09:16:08 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-3.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 08:42:53 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-3.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 08:37:24 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03D2@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: EF50 Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 08:37:36 -0000 X-MS-TNEF-Correlator: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03D2@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Could that be because the Navy used E55F (presumably = EF55). The active antenna whose description started this thread does use three of these devices. Amongst the mine of nostalgia out there, I there anyone who understands valve circuit topology and can tell us if the circuit I described really can be considered as a cascode but using just a single pentode. The dual gate mosfet can be considered to operate in this way - ie. cascode operation available from a single device with one current carrying path - but to my knowledge no equivalent has ever been produced for power FETs. A pity, I threw away some old VMP4 devices only a few weeks ago in a clear out of ancient and obsolete semiconductors as part of teh shack rebuild, they would have been quite good for an active antenna. But I guess one of the modern RF packaged MOSFETs designed for HF - UHF transmitters (which still cost quite a lot) will probably do a better job. Probably have a spare MRF150 somewhere. Wish I'd never mentioned the Naval active antenna in the first place ! Andy G4JNT > Sorry abt the mine of mis-information. Army EF50 was ARP35 (also CV1091, > CV1578). Still can't find a navy version...... > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4344 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 08:34:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 08:34:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 23083 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 08:33:55 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 08:33:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dpaW-0000JB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 08:27:56 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dpaV-0000J6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 08:27:55 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA199920 for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:27:34 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010316092716.2dc77122@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 09:27:16 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: who is ufo? In-reply-to: <14di8t-2HNKyGC@fwd00.sul.t-online.com> References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03A7@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> <3AB0BE6A.DCDE2F88@usa.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Uwe, It could have been OH5UFO, an 'alias' callsign of Reino (OH1TN). 73, Rik ON7YD At 01:30 16/03/01 +0100, you wrote: >Hi all, >back from night-committee finding on screen "UFO" on 135,898.1 kHz at 0024utc vy >strong. who is "UFO" ? he (she?) did not react on my resp. >BTW. what stn is transmitting a carrier on 137.052,0 kHz at night vy strong, at >day vy weak. >regards >Uwe/dj8wx jo43sv From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23408 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 06:06:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 06:06:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 8980 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 06:06:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 06:06:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dnGl-000846-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 05:59:23 +0000 Received: from neptune.imagenisp.com ([204.244.138.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dnGk-000841-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 05:59:22 +0000 Received: from jsm (DEFAULT [204.244.18.82]) by neptune.imagenisp.com with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id HAN9JTX7; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 22:00:20 -0800 Message-ID: <001301c0addd$8dd68dc0$5212f4cc@jsm> X-Sybari-Space: 00000000 00000000 00000000 From: "Steve McDonald" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <005e01c0ad98$3c3c6880$3f81d13e@f9.net.uk> <009801c0add8$de210120$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: Transatlantic Challenge: the Canadian / Europe contacts Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:54:23 -0800 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: Larry Kayser To: Sent: Thursday, March 15, 2001 9:16 PM Subject: LF: Re: Re: Transatlantic Challenge: the Canadian / Europe contacts > Dave: > > > Now for the Pacific eh Larry? > > Yes, starting as soon as I can get a new antenna pulled up and into place. > > Larry > VA3LK > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 503 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 05:27:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 05:27:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 18461 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 05:27:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 05:27:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dmfw-0007qX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 05:21:20 +0000 Received: from tomts5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.25] helo=tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dmfv-0007qM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 05:21:19 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.209.138.129]) by tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010316052027.NSGA27964.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 00:20:27 -0500 Message-ID: <009801c0add8$de210120$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <005e01c0ad98$3c3c6880$3f81d13e@f9.net.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Transatlantic Challenge: the Canadian / Europe contacts Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 00:16:21 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave: > Now for the Pacific eh Larry? Yes, starting as soon as I can get a new antenna pulled up and into place. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15858 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 05:26:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 05:26:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 21624 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 05:26:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 05:26:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dmfZ-0007qR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 05:20:57 +0000 Received: from tomts5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.25] helo=tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dmfY-0007qL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 05:20:56 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.209.138.129]) by tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010316052003.NRZI27964.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 00:20:03 -0500 Message-ID: <009501c0add8$cfec3980$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3AB09A04.24872.3479A7@localhost> Subject: LF: Re: Transatlantic tests this season Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 00:05:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike: > Unless anyone else is looking for Eu signals (Larry?), I lost the big LF antenna due to Ice/freezing rain late on Tuesday - I am completely out of business until I haul up a whole new antenna. I am also not hearing anything from Europe for some days - maybe the season is over for the North Atlantic. I had just started transmitting WOLF data over the weekend but that is over till I get a new antenna pulled up into place and tuned. It has been a great season but it seems to be ending on a very harsh note for me anyways hi. 73 es GL to u Mike Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1816 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 00:38:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 00:38:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 17997 invoked from network); 16 Mar 2001 00:38:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Mar 2001 00:38:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14di9H-0006M1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 00:31:19 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout06.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14di9G-0006Lw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 00:31:18 +0000 Received: from fwd00.sul.t-online.com by mailout06.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14di8v-0002UV-02; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 01:30:57 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.227.109.40]) by fwd00.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14di8t-2HNKyGC; Fri, 16 Mar 2001 01:30:55 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03A7@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> <3AB0BE6A.DCDE2F88@usa.net> Subject: LF: who is ufo? X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Fri, 16 Mar 2001 01:30:55 +0100 Message-ID: <14di8t-2HNKyGC@fwd00.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, back from night-committee finding on screen "UFO" on 135,898.1 kHz at 0024utc vy strong. who is "UFO" ? he (she?) did not react on my resp. BTW. what stn is transmitting a carrier on 137.052,0 kHz at night vy strong, at day vy weak. regards Uwe/dj8wx jo43sv From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28612 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 22:20:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 22:20:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 8565 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 22:20:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 22:20:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dg24-0005aY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 22:15:44 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dg23-0005aS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 22:15:44 +0000 Received: from pickmere.demon.co.uk ([158.152.117.143]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14dg1i-0006XM-0W for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 22:15:23 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 19:15:16 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M.J.Powell" Subject: Re: LF: Tube EF50 References: <004901c0ad60$39936300$1fd725c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de> <3.0.5.32.20010315161208.0082a100@pop3.esoterica.pt> In-reply-to: <3.0.5.32.20010315161208.0082a100@pop3.esoterica.pt> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In message <3.0.5.32.20010315161208.0082a100@pop3.esoterica.pt>, Brian Rogerson writes >I'm sorry, I could not resist. 73, Brian > >At 15:55 15/03/01 +0100, you wrote: >>With nostalgic smile I read the many mails about EF50 and other tubes that I >>used in the "tube-times" of my ham-life. >>Here some electrical data of it: >>(source: Röhren-Taschen-Tabelle Franzis-Verlag München 1964) >> >>The tube was used for HF- and wideband-amplification up to 50MHz. The >>amplification could be regulated by varying the negative voltage at grid 3 - >>says the book. This seems a little unbelievable to me, because mostly a >>variable voltage at grid1 was used. That's the normal method, but when used in the H2S equipment, after the Tx pulse the Rx was used in high gain mode, with a few plus volts on the g3 to catch the first ground return. Mike -- M.J.Powell From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19109 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 22:12:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 22:12:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 25314 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 22:12:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 22:12:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dftP-0005Vs-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 22:06:47 +0000 Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.46]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dftO-0005Vn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 22:06:46 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([62.255.44.37]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010315220625.KTDN285.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 22:06:25 +0000 Message-ID: <000901c0ad9b$f514efa0$252cff3e@oemcomputer> From: "Paul" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: EF50 Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 22:04:49 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, Sorry abt the mine of mis-information. Army EF50 was ARP35 (also CV1091, CV1578). Still can't find a navy version...... Regards de Paul G4MD E-mail Paul :- slowpoke@ntlworld.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8058 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 21:39:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 21:39:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 25662 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 21:39:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 21:39:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dfPD-0005Kv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:35:35 +0000 Received: from [62.209.144.6] (helo=sniffout.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dfPC-0005Kq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:35:34 +0000 Received: from picks ([62.209.129.63]) by sniffout.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.977.9); Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:35:13 +0000 Message-ID: <005e01c0ad98$3c3c6880$3f81d13e@f9.net.uk> From: "G3YXM" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: Transatlantic Challenge: the Canadian / Europe contacts Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:38:10 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hearty congratulations to all. It's been an all-consuming goal for most of the participants, sleepless nights, skinned knuckles, melted insulators and blown fets. Well done Jack, John, Larry, Laurie and Peter. Amateur radio history is made. Now for the Pacific eh Larry? 73. Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8648 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 21:18:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 21:18:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 13375 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 21:18:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 21:18:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14df3b-0005FO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:13:15 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14df3Z-0005FJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:13:14 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.80.43]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 17:11:45 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AB1770E.CCC5D1E7@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 21:14:38 -0500 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Ceramic insulators (AD) References: <004901c0ad80$fe56e2a0$58c47ad5@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Alan I would like a package of the insulators, i hope to transmit from summer place 73 de john VE1ZJ Alan Melia wrote: > Hi all I have just managed to wrench those remaining insulators from my > local trader. After satisfying the original demand (Larry , Brian, Mike > Probert, & Alan Lowe) I have 24 left which I think best makes 3 packs of > 8. > The cost will be £2-00 for the insulators (0.25p ea) and £1-30 postage > (Inland UK) > First reflector orders, come first > > Copy of my original 'advert' > ----------------------------------------- > At a recent Rally I came across a local trader with some brand new > brown-glazed ceramic 'rod' insulators for wire aerials at 25p each. (I > bought 8) They are about 10.5cms long and 1.7cms diameter, with a leakage > path of about 6.5cms (between the holes). Possibly a little small for the > Kilowatters, but at least they wont catch fire. > ---------------------------------------- > There may be some more available later when he clears his garage out! But at > least it means he will remember me if anything else in that field comes > along. He threw some marine 500k stuff in a skip last year because he didn't > have room in his car (sob sob!). I have put him under orders to ring me for > emergency transport if it happens again. > > Cheers de Alan G3NYK > Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17815 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 19:09:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 19:09:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 2371 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 19:08:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 19:08:51 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dd32-0004Xw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 19:04:32 +0000 Received: from imo-r16.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.70]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dd31-0004Xn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 19:04:31 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-r16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.61.c41b838 (3975) for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 14:03:31 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <61.c41b838.27e26c02@aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 14:03:30 EST Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic Challenge: the Canadian / Europe contacts To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 3/15/01 3:18:32 AM Eastern Standard Time, blanch@pncl.co.uk writes: << Apart from congratulating all concerned, I hope you meant the FCC. The Federal Aviation Authority might take a very long time dealing with a ham radio matter!! >> Oh, I don't know. The FAA consider themselves qualified to regulate VHF FM broadcast allocations and the type of RF emission filters used on digital TV transmitters, so perhaps we shouldn't be surprised to see them making a move to take over ham regulation as well. [grin] From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9227 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 19:03:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 19:03:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 23588 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 19:03:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 19:03:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dcxL-0004VV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 18:58:39 +0000 Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.8]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dcxK-0004VQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 18:58:38 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.98.11ea37b8 (3975) for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:58:03 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <98.11ea37b8.27e26abb@aol.com> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:58:03 EST Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic Challenge: the Canadian / Europe contacts To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Splendid news, and a fine decision. Congratulations to all concerned! John, KD4IDY From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11473 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 18:58:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 18:58:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 14589 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 18:58:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 18:58:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dcrX-0004Re-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 18:52:39 +0000 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dcrS-0004RX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 18:52:35 +0000 Received: from [213.122.196.88] (helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14dcqx-0002Pg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 18:52:03 +0000 Message-ID: <004901c0ad80$fe56e2a0$58c47ad5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Ceramic insulators (AD) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 15:07:12 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all I have just managed to wrench those remaining insulators from my local trader. After satisfying the original demand (Larry , Brian, Mike Probert, & Alan Lowe) I have 24 left which I think best makes 3 packs of 8. The cost will be £2-00 for the insulators (0.25p ea) and £1-30 postage (Inland UK) First reflector orders, come first Copy of my original 'advert' ----------------------------------------- At a recent Rally I came across a local trader with some brand new brown-glazed ceramic 'rod' insulators for wire aerials at 25p each. (I bought 8) They are about 10.5cms long and 1.7cms diameter, with a leakage path of about 6.5cms (between the holes). Possibly a little small for the Kilowatters, but at least they wont catch fire. ---------------------------------------- There may be some more available later when he clears his garage out! But at least it means he will remember me if anything else in that field comes along. He threw some marine 500k stuff in a skip last year because he didn't have room in his car (sob sob!). I have put him under orders to ring me for emergency transport if it happens again. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2254 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 16:22:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 16:22:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 264 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 16:21:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 16:21:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14daNl-0003bQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 16:13:45 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from dargolad.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.27]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14daNh-0003bL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 16:13:41 +0000 Received: from ea.esoterica.pt (ea.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.204]) by dargolad.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f2FGDDO00262 for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 16:13:13 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from slave2 (por006.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.6]) by ea.esoterica.pt (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA20571 for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 16:13:02 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010315161208.0082a100@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 16:12:08 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: Tube EF50 In-reply-to: <004901c0ad60$39936300$1fd725c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de > MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------040505010706000809030904" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040505010706000809030904 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit I'm sorry, I could not resist. 73, Brian At 15:55 15/03/01 +0100, you wrote: >With nostalgic smile I read the many mails about EF50 and other tubes that I >used in the "tube-times" of my ham-life. >Here some electrical data of it: >(source: Röhren-Taschen-Tabelle Franzis-Verlag München 1964) > >The tube was used for HF- and wideband-amplification up to 50MHz. The >amplification could be regulated by varying the negative voltage at grid 3 - >says the book. This seems a little unbelievable to me, because mostly a >variable voltage at grid1 was used. > >heater 6.3V - 0.3A / anode 250V 10mA / grid3 0..-54V / grid2 250V >3mA / grid1 -2V / resistor at cathode 600ohms. >socket loctal, comparable type EF53. >73 Walter DJ2LF > > > > >--------------------------------------------- >Walter.Staubach@fen-net.de > > > > --------------040505010706000809030904 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="EF50a.jpg" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="EF50a.jpg" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/2wBDAAEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEB AQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQH/2wBDAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEB AQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQEBAQH/wAAR CADMAPYDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA AgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkK FhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWG 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--------------040505010706000809030904-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19917 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 15:07:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 15:07:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 22582 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 15:07:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 15:07:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dZFp-0003Cj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 15:01:29 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dZFo-0003Ce-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 15:01:28 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 14:50:19 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 14:50:17 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Bad propagation or QRT ? Message-ID: <3AB0D6A9.19741.7C3874@localhost> In-reply-to: <3AB0BE6A.DCDE2F88@usa.net> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Since a few evenings I don't hear nor see anymore the Greek > Rtty station. It's just the bad propagation, or did they QRT ? > TNX. I have not heard it for several days. The last time it went off, it came back several kHz from where it was before. Will it return on the same frequency? Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13933 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 15:03:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 15:03:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 11094 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 15:03:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 15:03:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dZCM-0003Ax-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 14:57:54 +0000 Received: from hugo.fen-net.de ([194.95.193.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dZCL-0003As-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 14:57:53 +0000 Received: from 194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de (dialin-nbg-190.fen-net.de [195.37.215.70]) by hugo.fen-net.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA25941 for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 15:57:14 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <004901c0ad60$39936300$1fd725c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de> From: "Walter Staubach" To: "Reflektor" Subject: LF: Tube EF50 Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 15:55:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by hugo.fen-net.de id PAA25941 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: With nostalgic smile I read the many mails about EF50 and other tubes that I used in the "tube-times" of my ham-life. Here some electrical data of it: (source: Röhren-Taschen-Tabelle Franzis-Verlag München 1964) The tube was used for HF- and wideband-amplification up to 50MHz. The amplification could be regulated by varying the negative voltage at grid 3 - says the book. This seems a little unbelievable to me, because mostly a variable voltage at grid1 was used. heater 6.3V - 0.3A / anode 250V 10mA / grid3 0..-54V / grid2 250V 3mA / grid1 -2V / resistor at cathode 600ohms. socket loctal, comparable type EF53. 73 Walter DJ2LF --------------------------------------------- Walter.Staubach@fen-net.de From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2277 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 14:12:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 14:12:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 22219 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 14:12:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 14:12:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dYIk-0002q6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 14:00:26 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dYIj-0002q1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 14:00:25 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.98.188]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 09:59:27 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AB13F52.5BFC9A7C@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 14:16:51 -0800 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Bad propagation or QRT ? References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03A7@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> <3AB0BE6A.DCDE2F88@usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Alberto, Judging by the european amateur stations I have seen here in Canada propagation has been good this week 73 de John VE1ZJ Alberto di Bene wrote: > Since a few evenings I don't hear nor see anymore the Greek > Rtty station. It's just the bad propagation, or did they QRT ? > TNX. > > 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6291 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 13:52:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 13:52:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 9406 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 13:52:44 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 13:52:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dY4y-0002kv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:46:12 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dY4x-0002kq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:46:11 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA27520 for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 14:45:50 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010315144534.080f42ac@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 14:45:34 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: "O" copy In-reply-to: <3AB072D4.C43770A4@ns.sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 02:44 15/03/01 -0500, you wrote: >Hi all tonight G3XDV was "O" copy here . I believe his signals are the >most weakly challanged that I have received across pond. I have sent >pics to Mike. > 73 de John VE1ZJ Well done Mike & John, It gives hope to the other 'modest' stations to cross the pond one day. Mike, remember our first QRSS QSO in may 1998 (probably the first 2-way QRSS QSO ever) ? Quite an evolution in a period of less than 3 years ... 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10923 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 13:32:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 13:32:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 20627 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 13:32:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 13:32:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dXlu-0002ff-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:26:30 +0000 Received: from amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.45]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dXlt-0002fa-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:26:29 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-3-222.easynet.co.uk [195.40.202.222]) by amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A25A117C84 for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:26:05 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000201c0ad54$2d53d220$deca28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3AB072D4.C43770A4@ns.sympatico.ca> Subject: LF: Re: "O" copy Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:07:03 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John, VE1ZJ said: > Tonight G3XDV was "O" copy here . I believe his signals are the > most weakly challanged that I have received across pond. I have sent > pics to Mike. Congratulations to Mike and John. You only have to see just how small Mike's garden is to realise what an achievement this is. Well done. While in a discussion with a radio Ham friend (not an LFer) about the Peter Bobek award and the final outcome, he remarked that DARC, AMRAD and the RSGB HF Committee had shown a good deal of collective wisdom - I think that says it all! Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2536 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 13:13:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 13:13:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 6338 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 13:13:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 13:13:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dXUA-0002Ws-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:08:10 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from d12lmsgate-2.de.ibm.com ([195.212.91.200]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dXU8-0002Wn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 13:08:08 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d12relay02.de.ibm.com (d12relay02.de.ibm.com [9.165.215.23]) by d12lmsgate-2.de.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id OAA136538 for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 14:07:15 +0100 Received: from usa.net (ss1.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.66]) by d12relay02.de.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id OAA73960 for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 14:04:59 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AB0BE6A.DCDE2F88@usa.net> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 14:06:50 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Bad propagation or QRT ? References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03A7@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Since a few evenings I don't hear nor see anymore the Greek Rtty station. It's just the bad propagation, or did they QRT ? TNX. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 823 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 12:24:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 12:24:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 8948 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 12:24:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 12:24:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dWYW-0002AM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 12:08:36 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dWYS-0002AH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 12:08:33 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14dWY5-0006YM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 12:08:09 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <15208.200103151208@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 12:12:53 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: VR136 = EF50? In-reply-to: <002301c0ad36$0df0d4a0$ded81ad4@w8k3f0> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Dick, LF Group, Not much to do with LF I know, but the very interesting book "Metres to Microwaves" by E.B. Callick has a lot of info on British valve development in the WWII period, including many detailed drawings and tables. Obviously, it is mainly about the VHF - microwave spectrum. The EF50 gets a mention; it was used a lot as an IF amp. The RL7 was a development of the EF50 with aligned grids to reduce partition noise, and was developed for use in VHF radar RX front ends, where it was used as an improved replacement for the difficult-to-manufacture "acorn" valves. Later, it was re-designated the EF54. The EF50 was, in spite of it's external metal can, one of the first "all glass" valves, in which the base was an integral part of the envelope. This meant the electrodes could be mounted directly on the base pins, which greatly reduced parasitic inductance compared to valves with a pinch seal for the lead-out wires. It also had relatively high transconductance. These features greatly improved high frequency and wide band performance. By the end of the war, minature B7G all-glass valves of american origin, such as the 6AK5, were making the much bigger EF50 obsolete. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6952 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 10:58:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 10:58:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 26712 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 10:58:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 10:58:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dVKv-0001kT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:50:29 +0000 Received: from mail2.dada.it ([195.110.96.69] helo=mail.dada.it) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dVKt-0001kO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:50:28 +0000 Received: (qmail 31989 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 10:40:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cestag) (195.110.102.190) by mail.dada.it with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 10:40:12 -0000 Message-ID: <003101c0ad3c$39c92360$be666ec3@cestag> From: "cesare tagliabue" To: "LF group" Subject: LF: web fault Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 11:39:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
    Hi all
    Since my provider is updating the server, my web pages are temporarily confused and unusable.
     73   Cesare
 
Cesare Tagliabue   I 5 TGC
WW-Loc  JN53PS
e-mail: cestag@dada.it
url: http://www.dadacasa.com/i5tgc
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18463 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 10:57:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 10:57:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 16797 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 10:57:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 10:57:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dVLv-0001ke-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:51:31 +0000 Received: from rubellite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dVLu-0001kZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:51:31 +0000 Received: from w8k3f0 (JohnMajor.Leaders.dialup.freeler.nl [212.26.216.222]) by rubellite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 894A028F0 for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:50:50 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <002301c0ad36$0df0d4a0$ded81ad4@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <16005567.984503931546.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> <004601c0ac7d$58993920$32d41ad4@w8k3f0> <000501c0acad$b595ffc0$2d2f883e@robing> Subject: LF: VR136 = EF50? Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:51:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To All from PA0SE Robin T. Greenwood wrote: > I think it was known as an EF54? You are right! In a list of equivalent valves I found VR136 = RL7 And then in another list RL7 = EF54. Thanks Robin! 73, Dick, PA0SE > ----- Original Message ----- > From: "Dick Rollema" > To: > Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 11:52 AM > Subject: Re: LF: Re. E88cc in parallel > > > > To All from PA0SE > > > > John, G4CNN wrote: > > > > That's my memory too - i.e. the red or aluminium cans were EF50s. Why some > > were red I don't think I ever knew. > > _______________________________________________________ > > > > Is it not so that the red EF50 was the original one, developed by Philips > at > > Eindhoven for television treceivers? Just before Germany occupied The > > Netherlands on May 10th, 1940, info on the production of the EF50 was > passed > > to on Mullard. > > > > The aluminium military equivalent of the EF50 was the VR136, which was > used > > in for instance tuning units of the Gee set; one as RF amplifier, one as > > a mixer and a VR137 triode as oscillator. > > > > 73, Dick, PA0SE > > > > > > > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16916 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 10:55:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 10:55:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 20773 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 10:55:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 10:55:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dVH0-0001jb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:46:26 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dVGz-0001jW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:46:25 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:31:34 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 10:31:32 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Transatlantic: Thanks John Message-ID: <3AB09A04.24872.3479A7@localhost> In-reply-to: <3AB072D4.C43770A4@ns.sympatico.ca> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Hi all tonight G3XDV was "O" copy here . I believe his signals are the > most weakly challanged that I have received across pond. I have sent > pics to Mike. > 73 de John VE1ZJ John, Many thanks for the pics and for your perseverance in looking for my weak signals night after night. My previous Atlantic crossing was to your holiday site (much better for receiving Eu) and was only a fragment of a callsign, so small that you missed it, and it was only because you published a picture that I was able to spot my strange Morse. This one is much more satisfactory and a greater distance. Unless anyone else is looking for Eu signals (Larry?), I will finish transmissions for the season, except when I see CFH at S9, and save on my electricity bill. I am sure I speak for all Eu LF DXers when I thank all those in VE and W for their patience in monitoring over the last few months. The results this year have been much better than we could have hoped for. What would be useful now are complete logs of when conditions permitted DX reception and when they did not. This could be correlated with the work that Alan is doing on CFH, and with the solar data. The key to even better successes (eg normal CW) is being able to predict the really big openings. John's pictures will be on my web site tonight. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23389 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 09:35:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 09:35:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 11884 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 09:35:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 09:35:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dU4k-0001J9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 09:29:42 +0000 Received: from cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.171]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dU4j-0001J4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 09:29:41 +0000 Received: from modem-35.drengist.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.158.163] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14dU4O-00028I-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 09:29:20 +0000 Message-ID: <002501c0ad32$5a8af4c0$a39e883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. Transatlantic Challenge the Canadian/European contacts. Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 09:28:15 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Many thanks to David, and all who have sent their congratulations.
Thanks also to John and his colleagues for a wise and unifying decision.
Roll on next season and even greater achievements,its been fun.     73s Laurie G3AQC.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 08:20:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 08:20:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 10952 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 08:20:00 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 08:20:00 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dSsu-0000r4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 08:13:24 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fm215.facility.pipex.com ([194.131.104.225]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dSst-0000qz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 08:13:23 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (47.235.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.235.47]) by fm215.facility.pipex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13366 for ; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 08:07:23 GMT Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010315081027.00a96140@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 08:13:13 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic Challenge: the Canadian / Europe contacts In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 21:43 14/03/01 Wednesday, John Gould wrote: >............................(once and if the FAA agree to licence the band >for amateur usage in the USA). Apart from congratulating all concerned, I hope you meant the FCC. The Federal Aviation Authority might take a very long time dealing with a ham radio matter!! Walter G3JKV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20931 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 07:26:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 07:26:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 14941 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 07:26:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 07:26:14 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dS37-0000aG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 07:19:53 +0000 Received: from hs-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.177.150] helo=sphmgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dS36-0000a8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 07:19:52 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by sphmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id CAA01197 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 02:19:00 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 02:18:26 -0500 From: "Holger 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Transatlantic Challenge: the Canadian / Europe contacts To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200103150218_MC2-C8CA-6D33@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LF Group, >In these unexpected circumstances, and taking into consideration the intent >behind setting up the Challenge that was to commemorate Peter Bobek's >practical and fun approach to amateur radio, we have unanimously decided to >award both contacts with special plaques to commemorate their achievements, >that is the contact between VA3LK, G3AQC, and the contact between VE1ZZ, >VE1ZJ and G3LDO. excellent decision! 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21587 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 03:07:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 03:07:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 11073 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 03:08:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 03:08:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dO1d-0007kp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 03:02:05 +0000 Received: from tomts8.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.52] helo=tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dO1c-0007kf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 03:02:04 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.208.193.44]) by tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010315030111.ZLGU20895.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 22:01:11 -0500 Message-ID: <000901c0acfc$43143df0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: Transatlantic Challenge: the Canadian / Europe contacts Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 22:01:39 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: David: > Since the original announcement of the challenge all five of you have devoted > an enormous amount of time effort and dedication to the task. Yours has been > a fine achievement and one which I'm sure Peter Bobek would have > wholeheartedly approved. Thank You, I do hope I get to buy you a good cup of coffee this year on this side of the Atlantic, it would be great to see you at Dayton. There sure has been a pile of water under the bridge this past year since we met in Niagara Falls. Pun intended. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9006 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 02:52:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 02:52:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 27380 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 02:52:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 02:52:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dNj8-0007dr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 02:42:58 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dNj7-0007dm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 02:42:57 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.97.39]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 22:41:29 -0400 Message-ID: <3AB072D4.C43770A4@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 02:44:20 -0500 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: "O" copy Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all tonight G3XDV was "O" copy here . I believe his signals are the most weakly challanged that I have received across pond. I have sent pics to Mike. 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8383 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 02:51:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 02:51:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 2120 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 02:51:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 02:51:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dNlS-0007e1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 02:45:22 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dNlR-0007dw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 02:45:21 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.97.39]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 22:44:21 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AB07380.A2FAA6A4@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Thu, 15 Mar 2001 02:47:13 -0500 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic Challenge: the Canadian / Europe contacts References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi John I think you have made a wise choice. Thank you all from myself and Jack 73 de john VE1ZJ John W Gould wrote: > The three sponsors of the Transatlantic Challenge have considered the two > recent transatlantic contacts. We were impressed by the dedication, skill > and perseverance that was shown in each case. The contacts were so > incredible that we had not anticipate the ways in which they were achieved > when we devised the rules! > > In these unexpected circumstances, and taking into consideration the intent > behind setting up the Challenge that was to commemorate Peter Bobek's > practical and fun approach to amateur radio, we have unanimously decided to > award both contacts with special plaques to commemorate their achievements, > that is the contact between VA3LK, G3AQC, and the contact between VE1ZZ, > VE1ZJ and G3LDO. > > In these circumstances we will not make a further award for a Canadian and > European QSO. Further, we have clarified the rules for the case of the > outstanding USA to Europe QSO (once and if the FAA agree to licence the band > for amateur usage in the USA). > > I hope that all involved in this LF aspect of our hobby will accept this > outcome and continue the excellent work that is being done to improve and > innovate reception, transmission, and aerial technology. > > On behalf of my colleagues and their committees our appreciation goes out to > the work of those who we will be awarding plaques. But we would also like > to extend our appreciation to the work carried out by many others who have > made experimentation on this amateur allocation such an interesting and > absorbing hobby. > > Best 73 > > John Gould > G3WKL > RSGB HF Committee > > On behalf of DARC, AMRAD and RSGB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13853 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 02:11:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 02:11:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 28915 invoked from network); 15 Mar 2001 02:10:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Mar 2001 02:10:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dN6N-0007QN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 02:02:55 +0000 Received: from imo-m03.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dN6L-0007QI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Mar 2001 02:02:54 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-m03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.c0.1127b027 (9623) for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 21:01:39 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 21:01:39 EST Subject: LF: Transatlantic Challenge: the Canadian / Europe contacts To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 3/14/01 9:48:07 PM GMT Standard Time, g3wkl@btinternet.com writes: << we have unanimously decided to award both contacts with special plaques to commemorate their achievements, that is the contact between VA3LK, G3AQC, and the contact between VE1ZZ, VE1ZJ and G3LDO. >> Well done RSGB AMRAD and DARC on making a unanimous and unifying decision, and of course, my sincere congratulations to Larry, Laurie, Jack, John and Peter for bringing some lateral thinking to the inspiring Transatlantic Challenge. Since the original announcement of the challenge all five of you have devoted an enormous amount of time effort and dedication to the task. Yours has been a fine achievement and one which I'm sure Peter Bobek would have wholeheartedly approved. Great work. - David G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20829 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 21:49:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 21:49:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 22433 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 21:49:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 21:49:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dJ1f-00065I-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 21:41:47 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.176] (helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dJ1d-00065D-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 21:41:47 +0000 Received: from [213.1.163.56] (helo=presario1920) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14dJ1B-0001oi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 21:41:17 +0000 From: "John W Gould" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group@Blacksheep.Org" Subject: LF: Transatlantic Challenge: the Canadian / Europe contacts Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 21:43:41 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The three sponsors of the Transatlantic Challenge have considered the two recent transatlantic contacts. We were impressed by the dedication, skill and perseverance that was shown in each case. The contacts were so incredible that we had not anticipate the ways in which they were achieved when we devised the rules! In these unexpected circumstances, and taking into consideration the intent behind setting up the Challenge that was to commemorate Peter Bobek's practical and fun approach to amateur radio, we have unanimously decided to award both contacts with special plaques to commemorate their achievements, that is the contact between VA3LK, G3AQC, and the contact between VE1ZZ, VE1ZJ and G3LDO. In these circumstances we will not make a further award for a Canadian and European QSO. Further, we have clarified the rules for the case of the outstanding USA to Europe QSO (once and if the FAA agree to licence the band for amateur usage in the USA). I hope that all involved in this LF aspect of our hobby will accept this outcome and continue the excellent work that is being done to improve and innovate reception, transmission, and aerial technology. On behalf of my colleagues and their committees our appreciation goes out to the work of those who we will be awarding plaques. But we would also like to extend our appreciation to the work carried out by many others who have made experimentation on this amateur allocation such an interesting and absorbing hobby. Best 73 John Gould G3WKL RSGB HF Committee On behalf of DARC, AMRAD and RSGB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9224 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 18:44:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 18:44:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 29968 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 18:44:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 18:44:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dG8l-00055B-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 18:36:55 +0000 Received: from smtp.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.193.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dG8k-000556-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 18:36:54 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from default (p1008.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.202.245]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f2EIaWw21170 for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 19:36:32 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <200103141836.f2EIaWw21170@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 19:36:46 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: Re: LF: Lf Engineering A Hoax? X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >LF Engineering makes excellent products for the Lowfer community and is >co-owned >by Sal DeFransico, who once operated a beacon himself. I have purchased several >products from them in recent months, but do find them very slow to respond to >e-mail...often two or three weeks would pass. Quicker response will come via >snail mail. ------------ Hi Les.. (Glad i am not the only one BUYING) Just came home and found a note there was a small packet from USA perhaps it finally arrived, will check the post office tomorrow. Right,there has never been any response for this order neither snail or email. But as a bonus i got another ticket from the Dutch Customs, amazing how they keep remembering me ;-) Thanks for the info Les. 73 de Ko, NL9222. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29877 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 17:45:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 17:45:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 3661 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 17:45:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 17:45:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dFDV-0004lU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:37:45 +0000 Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dFDS-0004lP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:37:42 +0000 Received: from modem-45.barium.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.47.45] helo=robing) by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14dFD6-0006GZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:37:21 +0000 Message-ID: <000501c0acad$b595ffc0$2d2f883e@robing> From: "Robin T. Greenwood" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <16005567.984503931546.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> <004601c0ac7d$58993920$32d41ad4@w8k3f0> Subject: Re: LF: Re. E88cc in parallel Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 17:39:01 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I think it was known as an EF54? ----- Original Message ----- From: "Dick Rollema" To: Sent: Wednesday, March 14, 2001 11:52 AM Subject: Re: LF: Re. E88cc in parallel > To All from PA0SE > > John, G4CNN wrote: > > That's my memory too - i.e. the red or aluminium cans were EF50s. Why some > were red I don't think I ever knew. > _______________________________________________________ > > Is it not so that the red EF50 was the original one, developed by Philips at > Eindhoven for television treceivers? Just before Germany occupied The > Netherlands on May 10th, 1940, info on the production of the EF50 was passed > to on Mullard. > > The aluminium military equivalent of the EF50 was the VR136, which was used > in for instance tuning units of the Gee set; one as RF amplifier, one as > a mixer and a VR137 triode as oscillator. > > 73, Dick, PA0SE > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9920 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 12:55:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 12:55:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 4098 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 12:56:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 12:56:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dAiV-0003Gs-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 12:49:27 +0000 Received: from lepidachrosite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14dAiT-0003Gm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 12:49:26 +0000 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust81.tnt10.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.116.114.81]) by lepidachrosite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id E858BCAF7C for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 12:48:27 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <004601c0ac7d$58993920$32d41ad4@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <16005567.984503931546.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Subject: Re: LF: Re. E88cc in parallel Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 12:52:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To All from PA0SE John, G4CNN wrote: That's my memory too - i.e. the red or aluminium cans were EF50s. Why some were red I don't think I ever knew. _______________________________________________________ Is it not so that the red EF50 was the original one, developed by Philips at Eindhoven for television treceivers? Just before Germany occupied The Netherlands on May 10th, 1940, info on the production of the EF50 was passed to on Mullard. The aluminium military equivalent of the EF50 was the VR136, which was used in for instance tuning units of the Gee set; one as RF amplifier, one as a mixer and a VR137 triode as oscillator. 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28251 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 08:48:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 08:48:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 26970 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 08:48:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 08:48:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14d6rK-00020R-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:42:18 +0000 Received: from amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.45]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14d6rI-00020M-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:42:16 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-13-97.easynet.co.uk [212.134.22.97]) by amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B851717482 for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:41:53 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000f01c0ac63$4bda2060$611686d4@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <005201c0abf2$2e992e40$3025ff3e@oemcomputer> Subject: LF: Re: Valves Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 08:45:31 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Paul, G4MD, said > Subject thread is heading back towards my territory! Same here - showing my age! > > The silver EF50's were service issue valves - VR91 for the RAF, ARP12 for > the army. I suppose the navy must have had them as well, but I don't recall > the designation....Red ones were the civilian issue. > I'm sure I recall my late father saying the H2S set had over 100 of them, > and it was unknown for them all to be working simultaneously! I worked on H2S Radar when I was in the RAF but I can't remember there being 100 VR91s used. The equipment had a wide band 45MHz IF strip with about 8 or 9 red VR91s. Much sought after from the ex-govnt radio stores as home-brew TV receivers for receiving Alexander Palace. H2S Mk 3G and H2S Mk4A were quite reliable considering their complexity. The greatest cause of faults was the Pye plugs used for coaxial cable inter unit connections. The ARP12 is a directly heated pentode used in battery operated Army pack sets. The E88CC is a double triode frame grid valve that was used in UHF TV tuners, designed to overcome the space charge effect at these frequencies. They were used until superior solid state devices came along. At the Amberley Museum we have 1000s of these valves! Regards, Peter, G3LDO e-mail Web From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23383 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 05:27:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 05:27:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 26132 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 05:27:10 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 05:27:10 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14d3jo-00010I-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 05:22:20 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from outbound.charter.net ([24.216.159.200] helo=front002.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14d3jn-00010D-00; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 05:22:19 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [24.240.102.247] (HELO z6l3g7.highnoonfilm.com) by front002.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4b8) with ESMTP id 46730579; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 00:21:27 -0500 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010313231310.00a6a490@highnoonfilm.com> X-Sender: les@highnoonfilm.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 23:14:39 -0600 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Les Rayburn" Subject: Re: LF: Lf Engineering A Hoax? In-reply-to: <200103101351.OAA11349@smtp.wanadoo.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 02:51 PM 3/10/01 +0100, Ko Versteeg wrote: >Group.. > >Has anyone ever tried products from Lf Engineering USA? >Found at: http://www.lfengineering.com/ >Reason for this is they have not been answering my >messages for 2 weeks... One year ago they DID answer. > >Do they still excist or is it an abandoned website >that's left, just like many other sites ? > >73 de Ko, NL9222 LF Engineering makes excellent products for the Lowfer community and is co-owned by Sal DeFransico, who once operated a beacon himself. I have purchased several products from them in recent months, but do find them very slow to respond to e-mail...often two or three weeks would pass. Quicker response will come via snail mail. Les Rayburn, N1LF 4919 Cox Cove Helena, AL 35080 XMGR 184.900khz 1LF 187.300khz From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29022 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 04:48:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 04:48:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 4087 invoked from network); 14 Mar 2001 04:48:54 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Mar 2001 04:48:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14d37y-0000ps-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 04:43:14 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from asterix.tee.gr ([212.70.193.140]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14d37w-0000pn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 04:43:13 +0000 Received: from teeserver.tee.gr (teeserver.tee.gr [212.70.193.130]) by asterix.tee.gr (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id GAA22367 for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 06:42:55 +0200 (EET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from odin ([212.70.201.90]) by teeserver.tee.gr (Netscape Messaging Server 4.1) with SMTP id GA67RU00.1XO for ; Wed, 14 Mar 2001 06:43:06 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010314064235.00757aa0@aurora.eexi.gr> X-Sender: sv1xv@aurora.eexi.gr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Mar 2001 06:42:35 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Costas Krallis" Subject: Re: LF: E88cc in parallel In-reply-to: References: <16005567.984503931546.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Could someone please post a schematic or two of these valve/tube antenna amplifiers? Regards, Costas SV1XV +------------------------------------------------------------+ | Costas Krallis SV1XV * LOC KM18UA | | P.O.Box 3066 * E-Mail: sv1xv@eexi.gr | | GR-10210 Athens * PGP key: 0x3BDBBC34 | | GREECE * http://www.qsl.net/sv1xv/ | | * http://w4u.eexi.gr/~sv1xv/ | +------------------------------------------------------------+ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25461 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 22:54:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 22:54:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 29571 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 22:53:51 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 22:53:51 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cxZK-0007Vy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 22:47:06 +0000 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.89]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cxZG-0007Vt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 22:47:03 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from pickmere.demon.co.uk ([158.152.117.143]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14cxYv-00046W-0V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 22:46:42 +0000 Message-ID: <8t9NRAAqHor6Ewsd@pickmere.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 20:24:10 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M.J.Powell" Subject: Re: LF: Valves References: <005201c0abf2$2e992e40$3025ff3e@oemcomputer> In-reply-to: <005201c0abf2$2e992e40$3025ff3e@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In message <005201c0abf2$2e992e40$3025ff3e@oemcomputer>, Paul writes >Hi all, > >Subject thread is heading back towards my territory! > >The silver EF50's were service issue valves - VR91 for the RAF, ARP12 for >the army. I suppose the navy must have had them as well, but I don't recall >the designation....Red ones were the civilian issue. > >The EF50 has been described as "the valve that won the war" so ubiquitous >was it and so advanced in performance compared to other valves of the time. >I'm sure I recall my late father saying the H2S set had over 100 of them, >and it was unknown for them all to be working simultaneously! > >Might go and dig some out and try a new LF preamp. (need all my 807's for >the PA.....) I made an RF pre-amp using one in about 1948, tuned to Ally Pally TV sound. With a dipole mounted on a broomstick poking out of my bedroom window I received the London TV sound channel loud and clear in south Wales! Mike -- M.J.Powell From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10419 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 21:13:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 21:13:17 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Received: (qmail 21117 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 21:12:55 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 21:12:55 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cvyi-0006zr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 21:05:12 +0000 Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cvyh-0006zm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 21:05:11 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14cvyK-000PKb-0Y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 21:04:49 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 20:56:50 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: Re: LF: Re. E88cc in parallel In-reply-to: <16005567.984503931546.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 3.05 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ....Red ones were made by Sylvania weren't they? > red or aluminium cans were EF50s. > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10686 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 19:26:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 19:26:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 14456 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 19:26:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 19:26:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cuJp-0006Nb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 19:18:53 +0000 Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.46]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cuJo-0006NW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 19:18:53 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([62.255.24.17]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010313191832.ISOT285.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 19:18:32 +0000 Message-ID: <005201c0abf2$2e992e40$3025ff3e@oemcomputer> From: "Paul" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Valves Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 19:16:41 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, Subject thread is heading back towards my territory! The silver EF50's were service issue valves - VR91 for the RAF, ARP12 for the army. I suppose the navy must have had them as well, but I don't recall the designation....Red ones were the civilian issue. The EF50 has been described as "the valve that won the war" so ubiquitous was it and so advanced in performance compared to other valves of the time. I'm sure I recall my late father saying the H2S set had over 100 of them, and it was unknown for them all to be working simultaneously! Might go and dig some out and try a new LF preamp. (need all my 807's for the PA.....) Regards to all Paul G4MD E-mail Paul :- slowpoke@ntlworld.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24419 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 17:37:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 17:37:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 18238 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 17:37:07 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 17:37:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cseI-0005ld-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 17:31:54 +0000 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cseH-0005lY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 17:31:53 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from pickmere.demon.co.uk ([158.152.117.143]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14csdv-000PS2-0A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 17:31:31 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 15:08:35 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M.J.Powell" Subject: Re: LF: Re. E88cc in parallel References: <000101c0aba4$4b4d0960$b383883e@lvm> <3AADF9C0.E15D68E7@virgin.net> In-reply-to: <3AADF9C0.E15D68E7@virgin.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In message <3AADF9C0.E15D68E7@virgin.net>, Stewart Bryant writes > > >LAWRENCE MAYHEAD wrote: > >> Alan is right,when I was at Hanslope I saw the 807 distribution amps and >> also some using EF80s the red metal case valve . Those Rhombic ants were >> enormous so I guess the signals were pretty large. 73s Laurie. > >Weren't the red cased valves Mullard EF50s? (also available in silver) Yes, and the taller ones were EF55 IIRC. I once won a small prize for guessing that the X-ray photograph of the inside of a valve was an EF50! Mike -- M.J.Powell From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21064 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 17:25:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 17:25:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 6707 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 17:25:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 17:25:23 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14csSZ-0005jK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 17:19:47 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ewey-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.191] helo=ewey.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14csSY-0005jF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 17:19:46 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from chilly.excite.com ([199.172.153.77]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010313171851.NQEW727.ewey.excite.com@chilly.excite.com> for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:18:51 -0800 Message-ID: <16005567.984503931546.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:18:36 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re. E88cc in parallel MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 62.253.64.5 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, That's my memory too - i.e. the red or aluminium cans were EF50s. Why some were red I don't think I ever knew. They were popular for RF and IF strips. You could walk away with big boxes full of them for a £1 in Lyle Street. Those were the days. 73, John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20419 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 17:25:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 17:25:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 5227 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 17:24:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 17:24:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14csRJ-0005jB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 17:18:29 +0000 Received: from rubellite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14csRI-0005j6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 17:18:28 +0000 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust228.tnt38.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.116.170.228]) by rubellite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 6BD03296A for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 17:17:51 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <007c01c0abd9$c7b11ca0$e4aa74d5@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000101c0aba4$4b4d0960$b383883e@lvm> Subject: LF: Re: Re. E88cc in parallel Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 17:16:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To All from PA0SE The red metal valve must have been an EF50. 73, Dick, PA0SE > Alan is right,when I was at Hanslope I saw the 807 distribution amps and > also some using EF80s the red metal case valve . Those Rhombic ants were > enormous so I guess the signals were pretty large. 73s Laurie. > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29280 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 13:04:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 13:04:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 3725 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 13:03:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 13:03:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14coJ5-0004Ld-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 12:53:43 +0000 Received: from mail1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.18]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14coJ4-0004LY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 12:53:43 +0000 Received: from modem-126.deorwine.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.153.254] helo=lvm) by mail1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14coIk-0000QE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 12:53:22 +0000 Message-ID: <002801c0abbd$279022a0$fe99883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re. E88cc in parallel Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 12:56:53 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Sorry your dead right put it down to anno domini 73s Laurie. -----Original Message----- From: Stewart Bryant To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 13 March 2001 11:14 Subject: Re: LF: Re. E88cc in parallel > > >LAWRENCE MAYHEAD wrote: > >> Alan is right,when I was at Hanslope I saw the 807 distribution amps and >> also some using EF80s the red metal case valve . Those Rhombic ants were >> enormous so I guess the signals were pretty large. 73s Laurie. > >Weren't the red cased valves Mullard EF50s? (also available in silver) > >Stewart G3YSX > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19287 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 13:03:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 13:03:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 6478 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 13:03:45 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 13:03:45 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14coJw-0004Ox-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 12:54:36 +0000 Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14coJv-0004Om-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 12:54:35 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from pickmere.demon.co.uk ([158.152.117.143]) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14coJY-000NJV-0C for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 12:54:13 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 11:09:41 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M.J.Powell" Subject: LF: RE: Active antennas at LF.Wrong valve sp ecified 1 References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03BF@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> In-reply-to: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03BF@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In message <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03BF@pdw-mail- 1.dera.gov.uk>, Talbot Andrew writes >Sorry, I confused you all and remembered the wrong device. The valves >are E55L Pentodes. (E88CC is a doube triode, sort of ECC88 then they >ran out of numbers! ) IIRC The E88CC was a reliable form of the ECC88, gold-plated everything. Quite common in TV B/C in the 60s. Mike -- M.J.Powell From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5878 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 11:11:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 11:11:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 7403 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 11:11:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 11:11:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cmJI-0003dj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:45:48 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jaws.cisco.com ([198.135.0.150] helo=cisco.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cmJH-0003de-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:45:47 +0000 Received: from virgin.net (uxb-dhcp-198-135-1-193.cisco.com [198.135.1.193]) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id KAA12858 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:45:23 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AADF9C0.E15D68E7@virgin.net> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:43:13 +0000 From: "Stewart Bryant" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re. E88cc in parallel References: <000101c0aba4$4b4d0960$b383883e@lvm> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: LAWRENCE MAYHEAD wrote: > Alan is right,when I was at Hanslope I saw the 807 distribution amps and > also some using EF80s the red metal case valve . Those Rhombic ants were > enormous so I guess the signals were pretty large. 73s Laurie. Weren't the red cased valves Mullard EF50s? (also available in silver) Stewart G3YSX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21458 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 10:13:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 10:13:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 24583 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 10:13:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 10:13:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14clfw-0003RX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:05:08 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from kauha.saunalahti.fi ([195.197.53.227]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14clfv-0003RS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:05:07 +0000 Received: from pmk2 (DCXXX.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.74.25.30]) by kauha.saunalahti.fi (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id f2DA5kf21079 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 12:05:46 +0200 (EET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Paul Keinanen" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Active antennas at LF.Wrong valve sp ecified 1 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 12:04:41 +0200 Message-ID: References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03BF@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> In-reply-to: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03BF@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On Tue, 13 Mar 2001 08:59:25 -0000, Talbot Andrew wrote: >Sorry, I confused you all and remembered the wrong device. The valves >are E55L Pentodes. (E88CC is a doube triode, sort of ECC88 then they >ran out of numbers! ) I don't think running out of numbers is the reason for these strange codes. At least the Siemens Taschenbuch 1964 lists the ordinary xxnn (x=letter, n=digit) types as "standard receiving and amplification tubes", while the xnnx and xnnxx style tubes were listed under "special tubes", some of which were assosiated with the Reliability, Long life, Tight tolerance, Vibration and shock proofed and/or Cathode free from interface attributes. The first digit usually defined the base, thus 3n, 3nn were Octal, 8n, 8nn, 8nnn were Noval and 9n, 9nn Miniatur. However, 13n, 23n could also be Octal and 18n, 28n could also be Noval. So I do not think the reason for going to xnnxx format is simply due to running out of xxnn, xxnnn numbers. >FETs are much easier to understand - wonder if a solid state version has >been produced yet ? Are you referring to Fetrons, which appeared around 1972 and had the same base connection as the tube counterpart and you could just swap the corresponding tube with this high voltage FET ? Paul OH3LWR From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28458 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 10:05:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 10:05:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 7759 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 10:05:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 10:05:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14clWs-0003PD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:55:46 +0000 Received: from mail11.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.23]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14clWr-0003P8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:55:45 +0000 Received: from modem-51.azaghal.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.131.179] helo=lvm) by mail11.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14clWW-0000W2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:55:25 +0000 Message-ID: <000101c0aba4$4b4d0960$b383883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: Re. E88cc in parallel Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:56:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alan is right,when I was at Hanslope I saw the 807 distribution amps and also some using EF80s the red metal case valve . Those Rhombic ants were enormous so I guess the signals were pretty large. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11730 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 10:05:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 10:05:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 7709 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 10:05:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 10:05:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14claL-0003PN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:59:21 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d12lmsgate-2.de.ibm.com ([195.212.91.200]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14claK-0003PG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:59:20 +0000 Received: from d12relay02.de.ibm.com (d12relay02.de.ibm.com [9.165.215.23]) by d12lmsgate-2.de.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id KAA115766 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:58:24 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (dyn9-87-117-220.italy.ibm.com [9.87.117.220]) by d12relay02.de.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id KAA135034 for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:56:22 +0100 Message-ID: <3AADEF37.29EE7199@usa.net> Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 10:58:15 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Active antennas at LF.Wrong valve specified References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03BF@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Sorry, I confused you all and remembered the wrong device. The valves > are E55L Pentodes. (E88CC is a doube triode, sort of ECC88 then they > ran out of numbers! ) > The E88CC was a professional (military?) version of the ECC88. More tightly controlled specs, more ruggedized, etc. All the professional versions had that reversal between the last two groups of letters and digits. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5968 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 09:14:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 09:14:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 25502 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 09:14:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 09:14:15 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ckfb-00036l-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:00:43 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ckfa-00036g-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:00:42 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id JAA30309; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:02:52 GMT Received: (qmail 19137 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 09:51:52 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 09:51:52 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id JAA24367; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:39:16 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma024085; Tue, 13 Mar 01 09:38:26 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-3.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 09:04:40 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-3.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 08:59:15 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03BF@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Active antennas at LF.Wrong valve sp ecified 1 Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 08:59:25 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Sorry, I confused you all and remembered the wrong device. The valves are E55L Pentodes. (E88CC is a doube triode, sort of ECC88 then they ran out of numbers! ) The E55L presumably belongs to the EL55 family, 6.3V heaters, power pentode Octal base - Its all coming back to me now, the only time I ever used valves was back in teen years in the early 1970s Circuit is : Grid2 connected to anode and decoupled to ground. Input to each Grid1 from antenna connection via a 270 ohms stopper on each valve. Grid3 connected direct to cathode, 100 ohms from each valve to common output point, DC choke to gnd so the 100R acts as both cathode load and RF stopper / attenuator. Three of these blocks in parallel. 250V supply, positive grid bias applied to all 3 valves at comon input point adjustable 0 - 2V. This was described to me as a sort of cascode circuit but all internal to the one pentode structure - looks more like normal pentode operation to me. FETs are much easier to understand - wonder if a solid state version has been produced yet ? Andy > -----Original Message----- > From: Walter Blanchard [mailto:blanch@pncl.co.uk] > Sent: 2001-03-12 21:27 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: Active antennas at LF. > > > In the 1960's I had an active aerial using an 807 as the > front-end - with > 600v on it too! > Later modified to use an E186F instead. Why are they using > double triode > E88CC? > Can't possibly have the slope and overload characteristics of > an E186F. > > Walter G3JKV. > > > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22355 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 00:22:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 00:22:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 13234 invoked from network); 13 Mar 2001 00:22:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Mar 2001 00:22:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ccVn-0000Uq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 00:18:03 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.176] (helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ccVk-0000Ul-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 00:18:00 +0000 Received: from [213.1.99.28] (helo=default) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14ccVQ-0004er-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Mar 2001 00:17:40 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c0ab52$f88f9040$1c6301d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: E88CCs in parallel Date: Tue, 13 Mar 2001 00:10:26 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Andy and Andre' it sounds a bit more like....MMMmm we have rather a lot of those left in the stores....I wonder what we can use 'em for! I have a feeling that the 'frame-grid' valves ( 'tubes' for Andre's benefit) were fairly susceptible to grid overvolts. At least a lot more so than the standard grid structures. That is based on Oceanic submerged repeater experience, where they see a 15kV pulse when your friendy trawlerman decides not to wait for the compensation for his snagged nets, and puts his axe through the cable!. Still I suppose they are still a bit better than '3-legged fuses'. I have seen suggestions of transistors like VMP-1s and VMP-4s (a bit old now but VMOS VHF power devices) for good big signal handling capability at HF, but you would certainly need static protection on those, which does tend to defeat the object. Wasn't the 807 (like Walter's) running about 20-30mA praised up for its performance as an aerial distribution amp, at Hanslope Park and Bletchly Park. Despite the use of many HROs which can put a considerable number of mVs of local oscillator signal out of the aerial socket. (I have even seen TVI on Band I from an HRO) Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7220 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 23:34:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 23:34:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 28522 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 23:34:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 23:34:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cbl3-0000ET-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 23:29:45 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp7vepub.gte.net ([206.46.170.28] helo=smtp7ve.mailsrvcs.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cbl2-0000EO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 23:29:44 +0000 Received: from ieee.org (client-151-200-117-29.bellatlantic.net [151.200.117.29]) by smtp7ve.mailsrvcs.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA11219395; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 23:36:41 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AAD5C7D.EFD035FF@ieee.org> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 18:32:14 -0500 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Active antennas at LF. References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03BE@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> <5.0.2.1.2.20010312211617.00a8e050@mail.pncl.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Walter Blanchard wrote: > Why are they using double triode > E88CC? a cascode circuit, no doubt, as was used in TV tuners of yesteryear... And connect several in parallel for reliability. 73 Andre' N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21349 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 23:27:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 23:27:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 4522 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 23:26:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 23:26:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cbaX-00006V-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 23:18:53 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp7vepub.gte.net ([206.46.170.28] helo=smtp7ve.mailsrvcs.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cbaW-00006Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 23:18:52 +0000 Received: from ieee.org (client-151-200-117-29.bellatlantic.net [151.200.117.29]) by smtp7ve.mailsrvcs.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA10664730; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 23:25:47 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AAD5471.B0FB0E17@ieee.org> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 17:57:53 -0500 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: active antennas at LF. References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03BE@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Talbot Andrew wrote: > Incidently, returning to an earlier topic, the current Naval standard HF > receiving antenna on board ships is an active whip, made from a 2m > length of 50mm diameter Al pole. The amp is made from three E88CC > valves in parallel, operating in a cascode / common collector circuit. Indeed, in case of EMP, a valve preamplifier would have better chances of surviving. Andre' N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13618 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 21:53:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 21:53:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 11318 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 21:53:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 21:53:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14caAf-0008Cp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 21:48:05 +0000 Received: from riker.skynet.be ([195.238.3.132]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14caAe-0008Ck-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 21:48:04 +0000 Received: from mh70i ([62.4.222.236]) by riker.skynet.be (8.11.2/8.11.2/Skynet-OUT-2.11) with SMTP id f2CLldT02054 for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 22:47:39 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from ) Message-ID: <002101c0ab3e$61b444e0$ecde043e@mh70i> From: "DE BONDT WERNER" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000201c0aa55$65fa04c0$45df043e@mh70i> <3AACCF46.7D9A19B9@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> Subject: Re: LF: sin Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 22:49:56 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Nice to hear from you Valerio . Sin s forgiven . Hope to hear you soon on the band 73 . Abt the sin of Dave I am not sure the involve LF hi . 73 Werner ON6ND ----- Original Message ----- From: valerio gabbani To: Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 2:29 PM Subject: Re: LF: sin > DE BONDT WERNER wrote: > > > Nice sig from IK5ZPV at 17-50 rst 5-4-9But He was listening in > > visual CW !Its a sin . Best 73 to all Werner ON6ND > > Hello Werner, > i was listening by ear also,signal to noise ratio was too low for my not > well trained ears but high enaugh for spectrogram. > Werner thank you for report , hope to meet you again with better cndx. > '73, Valerio (IK5ZPV) > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 843 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 21:41:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 21:41:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 24092 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 21:41:57 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 21:41:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cZrx-00087d-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 21:28:45 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fm215.facility.pipex.com ([194.131.104.225]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cZrw-00087Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 21:28:44 +0000 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (251.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.251]) by fm215.facility.pipex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id VAA29358 for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 21:22:47 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010312211617.00a8e050@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 21:26:35 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: Active antennas at LF. In-reply-to: <002801c0ab22$33b34bc0$a128f7c2@oemcomputer> References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03BE@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In the 1960's I had an active aerial using an 807 as the front-end - with 600v on it too! Later modified to use an E186F instead. Why are they using double triode E88CC? Can't possibly have the slope and overload characteristics of an E186F. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24554 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 20:49:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 20:49:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 4144 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 20:49:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 20:49:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cZ9h-0007sX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 20:43:01 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cZ9g-0007sS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 20:43:00 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.51.118]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 16:41:42 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AADA90A.41CDF30E@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 20:58:51 -0800 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re. Beacon References: <000101c0ab24$22ddafa0$5dbc883e@lvm> <000d01c0ab26$f544af00$326668d5@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: hi Mike I'll be looking. Yes looked like short stuff last night 73 de john VE1ZJ PS Jack very happy as am I "mike.dennison" wrote: > > No AQC Beacon tonight. Will resume if requested. 73s Laurie > > I will beacon tonight on 135.9230kHz, 60s dots. > > Mike, G3XDV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1804 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 19:15:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 19:15:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 17580 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 19:15:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 19:15:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cXak-0007LC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 19:02:50 +0000 Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.43]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cXaj-0007L7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 19:02:49 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.102.50]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010312190229.CVOR283.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 19:02:29 +0000 Message-ID: <000d01c0ab26$f544af00$326668d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000101c0ab24$22ddafa0$5dbc883e@lvm> Subject: LF: Re: Re. Beacon Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 19:02:15 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > No AQC Beacon tonight. Will resume if requested. 73s Laurie I will beacon tonight on 135.9230kHz, 60s dots. Mike, G3XDV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21942 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 18:45:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 18:45:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 26997 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 18:45:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 18:45:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cXD5-00079x-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 18:38:23 +0000 Received: from mail4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.211]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cXD4-00079s-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 18:38:22 +0000 Received: from modem-93.elrond.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.188.93] helo=lvm) by mail4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14cXCO-0005yB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 18:37:40 +0000 Message-ID: <000101c0ab24$22ddafa0$5dbc883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: Re. Beacon Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 18:41:23 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: No AQC Beacon tonight. Will resume if requested. 73s Laurie From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5167 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 18:31:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 18:31:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 188 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 18:31:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 18:31:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cX00-00077n-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 18:24:52 +0000 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cWzy-00077g-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 18:24:51 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer (man-126.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.40.161]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.3/8.11.3/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id f2CIOMp00580 for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 18:24:22 GMT Message-ID: <002801c0ab22$33b34bc0$a128f7c2@oemcomputer> From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03BE@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Active antennas at LF. Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 18:28:10 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Now that's a thought. I have some E88CCs somewhere... ----- Original Message ----- From: Talbot Andrew To: Sent: Monday, March 12, 2001 4:32 PM Subject: LF: RE: Manual and active antennas at LF. > Incidently, returning to an earlier topic, the current Naval standard HF > receiving antenna on board ships is an active whip, made from a 2m > length of 50mm diameter Al pole. The amp is made from three E88CC > valves in parallel, operating in a cascode / common collector circuit. 73 de John Rabson G3PAI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 382 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 18:28:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 18:28:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 22937 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 18:28:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 18:28:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cWwR-000744-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 18:21:11 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cWwQ-00073y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 18:21:10 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14cWw5-0005pK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 18:20:49 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <17876.200103121820@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 18:25:29 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Re: Active antennas at LF. In-reply-to: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03BE@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Andy, LF Group,

>The amp is specified as having a 50dBm third order intercept >point and by my reckoning could function as a power amp >delivering over 10W. That's linear !!! Frequency response is >10kHz to 60MHz.

Sounds like the kind of thing I could do with - living near Brookmans Park gives me MF field strengths of the order of 10V/m RMS, and much higher than that on the peaks. I abandoned attempts to make a wideband whip when I observed about 40v pk-pk RF on a 1m antenna connected to a scope probe... A tuned input certainly makes life easier sometimes!

I read somewhere that pre-WW2 naval receiving systems, using basically long-wire antennas, were designed to operate with "up to 100V" unwanted signal on the antenna, with frequency separation of 10% or more. This was achieved using passive preselectors. The ob jective was to allow simultaneous multi - transmitter operation. When the war broke out, it was not found to be a big issue, because radio transmission from ships was kept to an absolute minimum to avoid direction-finding.

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU

From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3224 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 18:19:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 18:19:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 2364 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 18:19:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 18:19:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cWnY-000701-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 18:12:00 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cWnX-0006zw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 18:11:59 +0000 Received: from [213.1.138.147] (helo=host213-1-138-147.btinternet.com) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14cWnB-00015c-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 18:11:38 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Nick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: Manual and active antennas at LF. Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 18:10:47 +0000 Message-ID: <464qat0hlkdbs78001jnt1mm93oedqvqik@4ax.com> References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03BE@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> In-reply-to: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03BE@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On Mon, 12 Mar 2001 16:32:03 -0000, you wrote: > >Ships do have the advantage of a near perfect groundplane Not the fibre glass ones :-( Nick G4WHO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23688 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 18:00:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 18:00:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 4137 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 18:00:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 18:00:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cWVn-0006tF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 17:53:39 +0000 Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.47]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cWVk-0006tA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 17:53:36 +0000 Received: from compaq ([62.253.49.136]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010312175315.GBLH281.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@compaq> for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 17:53:15 +0000 Message-ID: <003401c0ab1d$51242b20$8831fd3e@compaq> From: "tracey.gardner" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: 1792 coupling caps Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 17:53:15 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In my manual all the RF coupling capacitors, C1, C4 & C11, in the 1792 front end are shown/listed as 1uF. The manual is Issue 8.5.85-350 and is for the RA1792 (83000,82129 and 85830) apparently these model numbers relate to different synthesisers. The guy that I bought the manual from wanted to know the serial number etc before he supplied a copy to me. The manual quotes the frequency range as being 150kHz - 30MHz. Brian's 50v rated capacitor went short circuit and proceeded to put the 15v supply to earth via an 18 ohm resistor needless to say it cooked very quickly! Perhaps that's why they changed to 100v rating in later models? 73s Tracey From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3434 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 16:40:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 16:40:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 8742 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 16:40:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 16:40:08 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cVFh-0006UH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 16:32:57 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cVFg-0006UC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 16:32:56 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id QAA26254; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 16:35:10 GMT Received: (qmail 18594 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 17:24:14 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 17:24:14 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id RAA06487; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 17:11:40 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma006443; Mon, 12 Mar 01 17:11:13 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-3.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 16:37:23 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-3.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 16:31:54 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03BE@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Manual and active antennas at LF. Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 16:32:03 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I think you have later versions of the 1792. My one only tunes in 10Hz steps and I know others mentioned on this reflector have 1Hz tuning. Wonder if the later version is specified down to a lower frequency. Incidently, returning to an earlier topic, the current Naval standard HF receiving antenna on board ships is an active whip, made from a 2m length of 50mm diameter Al pole. The amp is made from three E88CC valves in parallel, operating in a cascode / common collector circuit. A company somewhere is working on a solid state replacement based around power FETs, but don't know the progress on that. The amp is specified as having a 50dBm third order intercept point and by my reckoning could function as a power amp delivering over 10W. That's linear !!! Frequency response is 10kHz to 60MHz. Ships do have the advantage of a near perfect groundplane so presumably they can get away with this sort of antenna to lower freqs than normal. Andy 'JNT > C1,4,11 are all marked as 1 not 0u1 on both the cd and the components > list. The only difference is that 1 is a polyester 100v > whereas 4 and 11 are > ceramics 50v. Unfortunately nowhere on the five sheets sent > to me by the > vendor is there an issue or date reference. Still, with the > components > I had to hand, it now works, if out of spec. > > Thanks to all who took the trouble to send information, it is much > appreciated. > > 73, Brian > > >is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). > >For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, > distribution, > >or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on > such information is > >prohibited and may be unlawful. > > > > > > > 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W > http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20428 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 15:53:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 15:53:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 7623 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 15:53:20 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 15:53:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cUWm-0006Ej-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 15:46:32 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from dargolad.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.27]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cUWk-0006Ee-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 15:46:30 +0000 Received: from ea.esoterica.pt (ea.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.204]) by dargolad.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f2CFk5D25577 for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 15:46:05 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from slave2 (por217.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.217]) by ea.esoterica.pt (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA16451 for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 15:46:04 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010312154541.00829c10@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 15:45:41 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: RE: Manual In-reply-to: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03BC@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov .uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andy and Tracey, possibly others, C1,4,11 are all marked as 1 not 0u1 on both the cd and the components list. The only difference is that 1 is a polyester 100v whereas 4 and 11 are ceramics 50v. Unfortunately nowhere on the five sheets sent to me by the vendor is there an issue or date reference. Still, with the components I had to hand, it now works, if out of spec. Thanks to all who took the trouble to send information, it is much appreciated. 73, Brian At 14:47 12/03/01 -0000, you wrote: >Well, my manual shows it in the parts list as 1uF 50V but since the >highest voltage in the RA1792 anywhere is 28V, and only 15V on the RF >AMP then I would have thought 25V would do. > >However, the circuit diagram shows it as 0.1uF. As this coupling cap >is in a 50 ohm part of the circuit and the RA1792 is specified down to >150kHz (Yes, we all know it goes a lot lower !), 0.1uF gives a break >point at 32kHz so I guess 0.1uF is the correct value and the parts list >is wrong. C4, doing a similar function before the amp, is 0.1uF > >Andy G4JNT > > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: tracey.gardner [mailto:tracey.gardner@ntlworld.com] >> Sent: 2001-03-12 13:56 >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org >> Subject: LF: Re: RE: Manual >> >> >> Hi Andy >> >> My 1792 manual shows C11 on the RF amp board to be 1uF 100v >> whereas Brian's manual shows it to be 50v. >> >> 73s Tracey >> >> >> >> > I have access to a RA1792 manual, is there any particualr >> area / info >> >you need ? >> >Farnell do a radial 1uF ceramic capacitor - part no. 287-064. >> > >> > Andy G4JNT >> > >> >> >> > > >-- >The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence >is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). >For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, >or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is >prohibited and may be unlawful. > > > 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7273 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 14:54:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 14:54:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 10758 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 14:54:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 14:54:41 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cTcO-0005va-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 14:48:16 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cTcM-0005vV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 14:48:14 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id OAA14807; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 14:50:28 GMT Received: (qmail 1385 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 15:39:31 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 15:39:31 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id PAA13010; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 15:26:58 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma012908; Mon, 12 Mar 01 15:26:23 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-3.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 14:52:32 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-3.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 14:47:02 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03BC@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Manual Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 14:47:09 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Well, my manual shows it in the parts list as 1uF 50V but since the highest voltage in the RA1792 anywhere is 28V, and only 15V on the RF AMP then I would have thought 25V would do. However, the circuit diagram shows it as 0.1uF. As this coupling cap is in a 50 ohm part of the circuit and the RA1792 is specified down to 150kHz (Yes, we all know it goes a lot lower !), 0.1uF gives a break point at 32kHz so I guess 0.1uF is the correct value and the parts list is wrong. C4, doing a similar function before the amp, is 0.1uF Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: tracey.gardner [mailto:tracey.gardner@ntlworld.com] > Sent: 2001-03-12 13:56 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: Re: RE: Manual > > > Hi Andy > > My 1792 manual shows C11 on the RF amp board to be 1uF 100v > whereas Brian's manual shows it to be 50v. > > 73s Tracey > > > > > I have access to a RA1792 manual, is there any particualr > area / info > >you need ? > >Farnell do a radial 1uF ceramic capacitor - part no. 287-064. > > > > Andy G4JNT > > > > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29925 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 14:04:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 14:04:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 8418 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 14:04:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 14:04:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cSoO-0005d6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 13:56:36 +0000 Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.47]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cSoN-0005d1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 13:56:36 +0000 Received: from compaq ([62.253.48.131]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010312135612.BREO281.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@compaq> for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 13:56:12 +0000 Message-ID: <003001c0aafc$33233600$8330fd3e@compaq> From: "tracey.gardner" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: RE: Manual Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 13:56:10 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Andy My 1792 manual shows C11 on the RF amp board to be 1uF 100v whereas Brian's manual shows it to be 50v. 73s Tracey > I have access to a RA1792 manual, is there any particualr area / info >you need ? >Farnell do a radial 1uF ceramic capacitor - part no. 287-064. > > Andy G4JNT > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18904 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 13:44:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 13:44:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 15320 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 13:44:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 13:44:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cSUP-0005XK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 13:35:57 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mta15-acc.tin.it ([212.216.176.46] helo=fep15-svc.tin.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cSUN-0005XD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 13:35:56 +0000 Received: from mailsrv.dii.unisi.it ([213.45.252.148]) by fep15-svc.tin.it (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with ESMTP id <20010312133459.PDNJ17033.fep15-svc.tin.it@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 14:34:59 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AACCF46.7D9A19B9@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 14:29:42 +0100 From: "valerio gabbani" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: sin References: <000201c0aa55$65fa04c0$45df043e@mh70i> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: DE BONDT WERNER wrote: > Nice sig from IK5ZPV at 17-50 rst 5-4-9But He was listening in > visual CW !Its a sin . Best 73 to all Werner ON6ND Hello Werner, i was listening by ear also,signal to noise ratio was too low for my not well trained ears but high enaugh for spectrogram. Werner thank you for report , hope to meet you again with better cndx. '73, Valerio (IK5ZPV) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17837 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 08:48:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 08:48:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 11191 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 08:49:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 08:49:01 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cNv8-00043I-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 08:43:14 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cNv7-00042Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 08:43:13 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id IAA01856; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 08:45:25 GMT Received: (qmail 6462 invoked from network); 12 Mar 2001 09:34:29 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 12 Mar 2001 09:34:29 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id JAA20954; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 09:21:58 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma020719; Mon, 12 Mar 01 09:21:09 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-3.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 08:47:15 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-3.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 12 Mar 2001 08:41:51 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03B6@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Manual Date: Mon, 12 Mar 2001 08:41:55 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have access to a RA1792 manual, is there any particualr area / info you need ? Farnell do a radial 1uF ceramic capacitor - part no. 287-064. Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: Brian Rogerson [mailto:brian@esoterica.pt] > Sent: 2001-03-10 15:16 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: Manual > > > Gentlemen, > > Can anyone point me in the direction of a RA1792 tech manual/circuit > diagrams and more specifically a 1uF 50v ceramic capacitor, radial > leads about 0.3in spacing. > > 73, Brian > 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W > http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12291 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2001 21:39:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 11 Mar 2001 21:39:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 24559 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2001 21:39:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Mar 2001 21:39:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cDUM-0000ot-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Mar 2001 21:34:54 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.138] (helo=ruthenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cDUL-0000oo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Mar 2001 21:34:53 +0000 Received: from [213.122.14.162] (helo=default) by ruthenium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14cDU0-00063i-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Mar 2001 21:34:33 +0000 Message-ID: <000801c0aa73$10b60860$a20e7ad5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots for 10/11Mar at GB7DXM Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 21:26:10 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, no G spots but quite a bit of activity reported to the east . Despite hearing that Jack had got a new computer I have not seen any cluster activity from him on 160m, which is where he usually posts his LF activity shedule (1800.0) as well as his normal Top-Band activity. I believe there was a lot of snow early in the month, and some ice-storms. CFH returned on Friday evening for a run overnight and went off again at about 1900z on Saturday. It came on again this afternoon (Sun) and is still active at 2100z so there could well be another chance of a full overnight plot. It is still running just a 'carrier'. This is about 45Hz low of the nominal center frequency. Usually when it is visible in daytime it suggests high levels of ionisation in the D-layer and it does not augur well for nightime conditions. The Friday/Saturday plot showed the characteristics of a quiet or undisturbed ionosphere, with no signs of high absorbtion of deep fading, despite daytime visibility of the signal. Cluster spots follow :- 137.5 DF6NM 11-Mar-2001 1531Z psk31 137.7 DJ2LF 11-Mar-2001 1512Z qrss- vy weak now 137.7 I5TGC 11-Mar-2001 1458Z 29Hz above DJ2LF, CQ 137.7 DJ2LF 11-Mar-2001 1457Z CQ QRSS 137.7 I5TGC 11-Mar-2001 1448Z cq qrss 136.6 DL3FDO 11-Mar-2001 1418Z cq 136.7 DK6NI 11-Mar-2001 1418Z cq 137.7 OM2TW 11-Mar-2001 1230Z cq qrss 136.5 DJ9IE 11-Mar-2001 1059Z in qso with dj2lf 137.0 DL3FDO 11-Mar-2001 1035Z 559 137.7 IK5ZPV 11-Mar-2001 0957Z cq qrss 136.4 PA0BWL 11-Mar-2001 0945Z cq 136.8 DL1SAN 11-Mar-2001 0942Z 136.8 DJ2LF 11-Mar-2001 0940Z 136.7 DJ2LF 11-Mar-2001 0938Z 579 cq - vy strong today 137.7 DL7YA 11-Mar-2001 0938Z cq dfcw 137.7 DJ2LF 10-Mar-2001 1520Z qrss cq 136.6 DJ9IE 10-Mar-2001 1039Z cq 137.7 OM2TW 10-Mar-2001 1015Z cq qrss 136.5 OM5CW 10-Mar-2001 0749Z QRSS 136.5 OK1DKJ 7-Mar-2001 1242Z cq test G3NYK de GB7MRS 11-Mar-2001 2105Z > Cheers de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29838 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2001 21:03:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Mar 2001 21:03:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 17440 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2001 21:03:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Mar 2001 21:03:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cCud-0000bG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Mar 2001 20:57:59 +0000 Received: from [62.209.144.6] (helo=sniffout.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cCuc-0000bB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Mar 2001 20:57:58 +0000 Received: from picks ([62.209.136.167]) by sniffout.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.977.9); Sun, 11 Mar 2001 20:57:37 +0000 Message-ID: <004a01c0aa6e$33f9b060$bc88d13e@f9.net.uk> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000201c0aa55$65fa04c0$45df043e@mh70i> Subject: LF: Re: sin Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 20:59:44 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
I like a bit of sin every now and then!
 
Dave G3YXM
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, March 11, 2001 6:00 PM
Subject: LF: sin

Nice sig from IK5ZPV  at 17-50  rst 5-4-9
But He was listening in visual CW !
Its a sin .
 
Best 73 to all Werner  ON6ND
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8985 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2001 18:06:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Mar 2001 18:06:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 22575 invoked from network); 11 Mar 2001 18:06:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Mar 2001 18:06:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cA8e-0008K8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Mar 2001 18:00:16 +0000 Received: from riker.skynet.be ([195.238.3.132]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14cA8d-0008K3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Mar 2001 18:00:15 +0000 Received: from mh70i ([62.4.223.69]) by riker.skynet.be (8.11.2/8.11.2/Skynet-OUT-2.11) with SMTP id f2BHxsK25539 for ; Sun, 11 Mar 2001 18:59:54 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from ) Message-ID: <000201c0aa55$65fa04c0$45df043e@mh70i> From: "DE BONDT WERNER" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: sin Date: Sun, 11 Mar 2001 19:00:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Nice sig from IK5ZPV  at 17-50  rst 5-4-9
But He was listening in visual CW !
Its a sin .
 
Best 73 to all Werner  ON6ND
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18594 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2001 23:37:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Mar 2001 23:37:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 784 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2001 23:37:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 10 Mar 2001 23:37:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14bspT-0002hV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 23:31:19 +0000 Received: from cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.173]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14bspS-0002hQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 23:31:18 +0000 Received: from modem-17.pebble-butterfly.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.49.17] helo=lvm) by cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14bsp8-0001un-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 23:30:58 +0000 Message-ID: <001701c0a9ba$b9c9df80$1131893e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: friday night Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 23:35:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Fine John just the info I needed. I will revert to the wider spacing. 73s Laurie. -----Original Message----- From: John Currie To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 10 March 2001 20:48 Subject: LF: friday night >M0BMU and G3AQC were visible for hours last night > Laurie I prefer the earlier spacing . The last 2 nights sigs were >harder to read when only "M" copy during QSB > 73 de John VE1ZJ > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10442 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2001 22:09:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 10 Mar 2001 22:09:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 3422 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2001 22:08:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 10 Mar 2001 22:08:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14brRs-0002H8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 22:02:52 +0000 Received: from imo-m10.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.165]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14brRr-0002H3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 22:02:51 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-m10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.3a.11f6f206 (4330) for ; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 17:01:56 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <3a.11f6f206.27dbfe54@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 17:01:56 EST Subject: Re: LF: QRS v3.05 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks, Rik, for another splendid piece of software! It will be available from the lwca.org site this weekend. 73, John From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1130 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2001 20:47:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 10 Mar 2001 20:47:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 5384 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2001 20:47:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Mar 2001 20:47:41 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14bqAV-0001pJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 20:40:51 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14bqAU-0001pE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 20:40:50 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.6.14]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 16:39:51 -0400 Message-ID: <3AAAD80F.F7E51653@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 20:42:39 -0500 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: friday night Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: M0BMU and G3AQC were visible for hours last night Laurie I prefer the earlier spacing . The last 2 nights sigs were harder to read when only "M" copy during QSB 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5149 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2001 16:01:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Mar 2001 16:01:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 25739 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2001 16:01:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Mar 2001 16:01:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14bliL-0000JI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 15:55:29 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail-7.tiscalinet.it ([195.130.225.153] helo=mail.tiscalinet.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14bliK-0000JD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 15:55:28 +0000 Received: from orion.pii.net (62.11.62.0) by mail.tiscalinet.it (5.5.015.5) id 3AA4B71F000FB0AD for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 16:54:59 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from clapo@localhost) by orion.pii.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) id QAA01250 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 16:48:46 +0100 Message-ID: X-Mailer: XFMail 1.3 [p0] on Linux X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit MIME-Version: 1.0 In-reply-to: <3.0.1.16.20010307120313.08b7191a@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 16:48:46 +0100 (CET) From: "Claudio" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic modes - what next? Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LF group, I agree with Rik arguments about BPSK and I add some more considerations. On 07-Mar-01 Rik Strobbe wrote: > Hello Jim & group, > > Excellent paper from Jim, it seems a good starting point for an open > discussion. > > SNIP > > An additional difference occurs at the RX side. QRSS/DFCW are received > 'wideband', this means you can observe a rather big part of the spectrum > for DFCW/QRSS signals. This has the advantage that, even at signal > bandwidths of 0.01Hz, there is nor problem to 'hit' the transmitted signal. > One can even 'decode' more that one signal at the same time. Opposite to > this all receiving software for BPSK / WOLF is 'narrowband'. This means > that you have to 'hit' the transmitted signal very accurate and you can > receive only 1 signal at a time. > > SNIP > So far my contribution, > > 73, Rik ON7YD BPSK modulation is very sensitive to carrier frequency shift or difference between transmitter and receiver. The receiver must be frequency locked to the carrier, if the difference between TX and RX frequency is more that one tenth of the bit rate you must add some circuit to scan the RX frequency and lock the receiver local oscillator (do it in hardware or software, doesn't matter) to the carrier (kiked oscillator ;-) ). After the carrier is locked, the receiver does lock the data bit clock, this require a training sequence (some data bits that doesn't carry useful informations) and synchronize the RX side data rate clock with the transmit side. Those bits are lost and add some time to QSO time. In general BPSK is easy to implement for hight bit rate I think that you can ask more to some OSCAR satellite guru about the BPSK modulation. 73 de Claudio, ik2pii ---------------------------------------------------------------------- Claudio Pozzi http://www.qsl.net/ik2pii happy Linux user E-Mail: Claudio Date: 10-Mar-01 Time: 16:26:23 This message was sent by XFMail ---------------------------------------------------------------------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24280 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2001 15:22:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Mar 2001 15:22:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 21819 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2001 15:22:38 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Mar 2001 15:22:38 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14bl6k-00009l-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 15:16:38 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from dargolad.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.27]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14bl6f-00009g-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 15:16:37 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ea.esoterica.pt (ea.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.204]) by dargolad.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f2AFGBD06021 for ; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 15:16:11 GMT Received: from slave2 (por010.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.10]) by ea.esoterica.pt (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA22725 for ; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 15:16:09 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010310151536.007a61a0@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 15:15:36 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: LF: Manual MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Gentlemen, Can anyone point me in the direction of a RA1792 tech manual/circuit diagrams and more specifically a 1uF 50v ceramic capacitor, radial leads about 0.3in spacing. 73, Brian 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20868 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2001 13:58:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Mar 2001 13:58:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 19224 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2001 13:58:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 10 Mar 2001 13:58:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14bjmJ-0008F2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 13:51:27 +0000 Received: from smtp.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.193.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14bjmI-0008Ex-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 13:51:26 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from default (p1165.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.203.146]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA11349 for ; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 14:51:06 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <200103101351.OAA11349@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Sat, 10 Mar 2001 14:51:16 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Lf Engineering A Hoax? X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Group.. Has anyone ever tried products from Lf Engineering USA? Found at: http://www.lfengineering.com/ Reason for this is they have not been answering my messages for 2 weeks... One year ago they DID answer. Do they still excist or is it an abandoned website that's left, just like many other sites ? 73 de Ko, NL9222 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13841 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2001 07:29:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Mar 2001 07:29:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 28985 invoked from network); 10 Mar 2001 07:29:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Mar 2001 07:29:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14bdf3-0006Kz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 07:19:33 +0000 Received: from cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.171]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14bdf2-0006Ku-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 07:19:33 +0000 Received: from modem-2.aros.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.126.2] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14bdei-0004QO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Mar 2001 07:19:12 +0000 Message-ID: <000301c0a932$53a42860$027e883e@g3aqc> From: "Laurie Mayhead" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Test Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 22:57:10 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24372 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 19:21:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 19:21:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 23677 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 19:21:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 19:21:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14bSMo-0002ms-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 19:15:58 +0000 Received: from smtp.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.193.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14bSMn-0002mn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 19:15:57 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from default (p108.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.200.72]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA27541 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 20:15:36 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <200103091915.UAA27541@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 20:15:47 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: QRS v3.05 X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 3/9/01 10:55:00, you wrote: >Hello all, > >I got a new version of QRS (v3.05) ready for release. It is sent to LCWA, >G3YXM and NL9222, so should be downloadable via these websites soon. >For the impatient I will have it on my website temporarily (just over the >weekend) for downloading : > >http://www.qsl.net/on7yd/QRS/qrs305.zip > >I want to thank everybody who gave me 'feedback', especially Laurie >(G3AQC), Jim (M0BMU) and Mike (ZL4OL) for the testing and bug reporting of >the trail versions and also John (KD4IDY), Dave (G3YXM) and Ko (NL9222) for >making it available through their websites. > >73, Rik ON7YD > > > > Rik and all. Just uploaded the new Qrs and the pages, look for the "new" image or just follow the alphabet :-) A good weekend all and 73 Ko Versteeg, NL9222. Oh it can be found via: http://home.wanadoo.nl/nl9222/index.htm http://leden.tref.nl/~nl9222tv/default.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14129 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 14:07:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 14:07:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 27978 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 14:07:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 14:07:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14bNS0-00018Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 14:01:00 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14bNRz-00018L-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 14:00:59 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.89.3]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 10:00:01 -0400 Message-ID: <3AA928D7.267C42F8@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 14:02:47 -0500 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re. Tonight References: <000c01c0a7fb$750a19c0$40a4883e@g3aqc> Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi Laurie saw you"M" from 2305 til fade oput 2346 Lwft house 0015 back 0400 0400 you were ")" copy

LAWRENCE MAYHEAD wrote:

I wont be able to start until 22:00utc tonight. Slightly different format, DFCW, shift now 0.15Hz centered on 135.922. Also slightly shorter inter-element spacing (15secs was 20 secs)saving 2mins on each call at the expense of readability? Hope for some propagation, reports welcome.  73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20557 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 13:27:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 13:27:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 17148 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 13:26:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 13:26:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14bMml-0000uQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 13:18:23 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout00.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14bMmi-0000uL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 13:18:20 +0000 Received: from fwd01.sul.t-online.com by mailout00.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14bMmO-00028z-03; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 14:18:00 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.227.109.40]) by fwd01.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14bMm0-0itv8aC; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:17:36 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000c01c0a7fb$750a19c0$40a4883e@g3aqc> Subject: LF: Tonight-G3XDV/G3AQC X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------000906080902080109050205" Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:17:36 +0100 Message-ID: <14bMm0-0itv8aC@fwd01.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000906080902080109050205 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit LAWRENCE MAYHEAD schrieb: > I wont be able to start until 22:00utc tonight. Slightly different format, > DFCW, shift now 0.15Hz centered on 135.922. Also slightly shorter > inter-element spacing (15secs was 20 secs) > saving 2mins on each call at the expense of readability? Hope for some > propagation, reports welcome. 73s Laurie. > =Hi Laurie Hi Mike got an other pic (see enclosure). relat. rx-input-voltage and QRG meassured over ten minutes at 2210utc on 08.03.2001: G3AQC 51 - 53 db, 135,922.14 - .09 / 135,921.98 - .93 kHz (if G3XDV was exactly on his ann. QRG.) G3XDV 41 - 46 db, 135.922.98 - 923.00 kHz noise 11 - 29 db regards Uwe/dj8wx - jo43sv - dds-contr.rx - QRG calibr. with PeakTech 2840 - inv.Vee340/400mlws.ant # --------------000906080902080109050205 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="NEU-6.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="NEU-6.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEBLAEsAAD/2wBDAAgGBgcGBQgHBwcJCQgKDBQNDAsLDBkSEw8UHRof Hh0aHBwgJC4nICIsIxwcKDcpLDAxNDQ0Hyc5PTgyPC4zNDL/2wBDAQkJCQwLDBgNDRgyIRwh MjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjIyMjL/wAAR CAEdAlEDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA AgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkK FhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWG h4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl 5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEAAwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREA AgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSExBhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYk 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uqXtrrsD25hW2utOXarFlO8bmYZAUjp/F1r1qik6kpaNhYQClooqBhRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRR RQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUA FFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRR RQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUA FFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRR RQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUA FFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRR RQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUA FFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRR RQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUA FFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRR RQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUA FFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRR RQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUA FFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRR RQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUA FFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRR RQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUA FFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRR RQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUA FFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQAUUUUAFFFFABRRRQB//9k= --------------000906080902080109050205-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28341 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 08:31:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 08:31:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 7901 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 08:31:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 08:31:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14bIDE-0007qR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 08:25:24 +0000 Received: from smtp1.vol.cz ([195.250.128.43] helo=majordomo.vol.cz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14bIDD-0007qK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 08:25:24 +0000 Received: from OK1FIG (hradeca-26.dialup.vol.cz [212.27.208.26]) by majordomo.vol.cz (8.11.1/8.11.1) with SMTP id f298Owq71673 for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 09:24:58 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <000401c0a871$bd91e580$1ad01bd4@OK1FIG> From: "Petr Maly" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001301c0a4ea$a0799900$cd666ec3@cestag> Subject: LF: Re: new station Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 21:19:28 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Ruda lives in the same city as me. Actually it was me who "infected" him to go on for LF. He uses LW 80 meters (slopping) and listens on IC-756.
 
73 Petr OK1FIG
 
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, March 04, 2001 8:35 PM
Subject: LF: new station

        Hi all
        This afternoon Sun 4 March, around 14.15 UTC I've heard the new OK station OK1DTN calling CQ, the signal was very strong, 579 here in Florence; this station seems to be well equipped.
  73  Cesare
 
Cesare Tagliabue   I 5 TGC
WW-Loc  JN53PS
e-mail: cestag@dada.it
url: http://www.dadacasa.com/i5tgc
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9626 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 06:56:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 06:56:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 21821 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 06:57:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 06:57:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14bGkN-0007Nm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 06:51:31 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from finch-post-11.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.39]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14bGkM-0007Nh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 06:51:30 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by finch-post-11.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14bGk2-0005ya-0B for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 06:51:10 +0000 Message-ID: <3AA87E06.CFB95B69@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 09 Mar 2001 06:53:58 +0000 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Activity from G6RO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, Many will know that Ron G6RO, for several years, has been a full time carer for his wife, Doris. They are both 88 years old. Ron has written to say that Doris is very poorly and is spending some time in hospital. The hospital visiting schedule, among other things, means that Ron will be less active than usual. (His busy caring schedule has always meant that finding time to operate on any band has been, to say the least, 'difficult'.) Nevertheless, Ron will be snatching the odd few minutes to check 136, so if you do happen to hear Ron calling 'CQ', please give him a call. Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19707 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 02:38:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 02:38:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 5424 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 02:38:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 02:38:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14bCiF-00067U-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 02:33:03 +0000 Received: from imo-r16.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.70]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14bCiE-00067P-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 02:33:02 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-r16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.ea.126838cb (3969) for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 21:31:58 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 21:31:58 EST Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: Transcontinental modes - what next? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12306 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 01:46:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 01:46:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 18494 invoked from network); 9 Mar 2001 01:46:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Mar 2001 01:46:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14bBsV-0005pJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 01:39:35 +0000 Received: from mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.15]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14bBsT-0005pE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Mar 2001 01:39:34 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.178.157]) by mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010309013845.GUEX12559245.mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:38:45 +1300 Message-ID: <008b01c0a83a$a18b3bc0$5cb21bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3715.200103081328@gemini> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Transcontinental modes - what next? Date: Fri, 9 Mar 2001 14:43:58 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear James and LF Group, Your perception of being limited to some 100 Hz of overall bandwidth for transcontinental LF work is unlikely to be the case in other continents. Down here we have 165 - 190 kHz, and can even have LF SSB nets, and they work fine. Limitation on emission bandwidth is probably the SWR bandwidth of a typical backyard antenna, and nobody here who has tried SSB has had a problem. For digital modes, Shannon's Law is not limited to slow symbol rate, even if the net recovered data is slow rate. I still do not believe there needs to be an arbitrary cap of 10 Hz on digital mode emission bandwidth. If someone can come up with a cunning scheme that uses say 50 Hz bandwidth, then it why not use it? Cheers, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26502 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 18:20:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 18:20:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 11801 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 18:20:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 18:20:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14b4tr-0003aM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 18:12:31 +0000 Received: from cmailg2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.172]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14b4tq-0003aH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 18:12:30 +0000 Received: from modem-64.dwimordene.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.164.64] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14b4tB-0003xl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 18:11:49 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01c0a7fb$750a19c0$40a4883e@g3aqc> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. Tonight Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 18:12:27 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
I wont be able to start until 22:00utc tonight. Slightly different format, DFCW, shift now 0.15Hz centered on 135.922. Also slightly shorter inter-element spacing (15secs was 20 secs)
saving 2mins on each call at the expense of readability? Hope for some propagation, reports welcome.  73s Laurie. 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26534 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 13:34:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 13:34:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 20219 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 13:34:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 13:34:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14b0TB-00024F-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 13:28:41 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14b0TA-00024A-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 13:28:40 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14b0Sm-0002UX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 13:28:16 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3715.200103081328@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 13:32:52 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Re: Transcontinental modes - what next? In-reply-to: <00b301c0a740$f67ff3a0$42b21bca@xtr743187> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Bob, LF group > Jim, > > Your statement > > > All this means that the spectrum available for > > a group of transmitting stations participating in "transatlantic tests" > > is probably only 100Hz. > > assumes that the EU band plan can not adapt to demand. > > 73, Bob ZL2CA Some aspects of band use are not within the power of amateurs to do much adapting to - for example CFH and SXV can transmit where and when they like in the band, as can the intermods that plague some parts of Europe. The other thing is that the long distance/exotic modes activity is a minority interest among LF amateurs - it is not really reasonable to fill a large portion of the available band with signals that most of the band users cannot make use of. There has already been more than enough debate as to whether this is good or bad, but there it is. So I think operating in small bandwidths is an inevitable part of the challenge of LF; it has certainly proved useful with the current crop of QRSS type modes, where virtually all the beacon activity has fitted easily into a bandwidth as wide as a single CW signal. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17674 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 12:53:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 12:53:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 20462 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 12:53:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 12:53:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14azo6-0001sL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 12:46:14 +0000 Received: from mail3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14azo5-0001sG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 12:46:13 +0000 Received: from modem-18.dungortheb.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.160.18] helo=g3aqc) by mail3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14azni-0003rr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 12:45:51 +0000 Message-ID: <001a01c0a7cd$e53a2060$12a0883e@g3aqc> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. QRS 2300 z etc. Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 12:46:26 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Thanks John for the report. Very encouraging to see that 30sec dots are coming through even in indifferent conditions,and my power still 350mW!.
I am sure DFCW is the answer at least for now,until something better is thought of, Its not difficult to implement.  I use a Xtal oscillator with a relay switched capacitor (two bits of wire twisted
together Hi, so I can always alter the F.Shift ).
I will shorten the dots sometime although 10 sec is rather a big jump..
Now that Rik has implemented half element spacing, we are really shortening the time scale. So as you say even the lower power stations have a chance.  73s Laurie..
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11709 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 11:29:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 11:29:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 22679 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 11:29:21 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 11:29:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ayUN-0001R4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 11:21:47 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from gate3.oss.akzonobel.nl ([192.87.3.7]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ayUM-0001Qz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 11:21:47 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from fwmaster@localhost) by gate3.oss.akzonobel.nl (8.9.1a/8.6.12) id MAA01998 for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 12:20:57 +0100 (MET) Received: by gate3.oss.akzonobel.nl via smap (V1.3) id sma001138; Thu, 8 Mar 01 12:20:20 +0100 Received: by triton.oss.akzonobel.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 12:20:20 +0100 Message-ID: <639D20177889D41198A600508BAD3CA1011EED68@capella3.oss.akzonobel.nl> From: "Laken, W.H.P.A. van der \(Wil\)" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Hamradio Ralley in Rosmalen Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 12:20:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Saturday 10 March is the (big) Hamradio Ralley in Rosmalen - Holland. I suggest that lf enthousiasts visiting the ralley can meet and shake hands at 11:30 at the info-booth. 73 Wil - PA0BWL From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21694 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 11:23:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 11:23:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 6860 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 11:23:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 11:23:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ayKX-0001N8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 11:11:37 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ayKT-0001N3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 11:11:33 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.52.88]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 07:10:33 -0400 Message-ID: <3AA7AF9B.40B26BEB@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Thu, 08 Mar 2001 11:13:16 -0500 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re. QRS 2300z Mar 7th References: <001801c0a7b2$c3baf240$4378883e@g3aqc> Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi Laurie,  It seems that 30 second dots is so superior to 3 sec dots it comes through despite cmes .  I thought I saw M0BMU at 2315. I had "O" copy on G3AQC  and M0BMU at 0212.
     The German station at 128.9 was S-3 up until i saw it at S-5 at 0230.  By 0246 QRM from 60 Hz wiped me out
      It is obvious that dfcw is far superior when it comes to speed of information transfer. I will be sending picture later
      There  appears to be a third station just below G3AQC.  He is  lower by about 1.5 times the difference between Laurie's dots and dashes
      I'll be looking from 2100 thru 0000Z tonight and agn for short period at 0400
     I figure 30 sec dots is 10 db better than 3sec dots and from a reliability standpoint  this also seems to be true.  Condx like last night would never Have produced readable sigs with 3 sec dots.  I reckon With good condx 100 to 200 milliwatt stations could get across .  The reception of G3XDV proves this
   73 de John VE1ZJ

LAWRENCE MAYHEAD wrote:

Hi all.I was transmitting 30sec dot DFCW from 20:00 until 07:00 last night, on 135,922 +/-. I saw G3XDV above me on 135.923,but have no idea where the interleaving signal comes from.Looks like propagation still in trouble from CMEs, will try again tonight. 73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12395 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 09:40:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 09:40:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 24159 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 09:39:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 09:39:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14awmD-0000sV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 09:32:05 +0000 Received: from mail11.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.23]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14awmB-0000sQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 09:32:03 +0000 Received: from modem-67.aranwe.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.120.67] helo=g3aqc) by mail11.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14awll-0005r0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 09:31:38 +0000 Message-ID: <001801c0a7b2$c3baf240$4378883e@g3aqc> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. QRS 2300z Mar 7th Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:32:20 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi all.
I was transmitting 30sec dot DFCW from 20:00 until 07:00 last night, on 135,922 +/-. I saw G3XDV above me on 135.923,but have no idea where the interleaving signal comes from.
Looks like propagation still in trouble from CMEs, will try again tonight. 73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29109 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 09:25:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 09:25:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 9564 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 09:25:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 09:25:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14awWN-0000nH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 09:15:43 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14awWM-0000nC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 09:15:42 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 09:13:53 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:13:50 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Transatlantic tests Message-ID: <3AA74D4E.26331.F00E9@localhost> In-reply-to: <002501c0a727$4833eea0$b294883e@g3aqc> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Many thanks John for the report, I will have another go tonight. > Same time same format. 73s Laurie. > I was on last night with 120s dashes, 60s dots, sending "G3XDV" on 135.923kHz. I will be on again tonight using those parameters unless anyone wants anything different. 73 and thanks for listening. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12589 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 08:44:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 08:44:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 27638 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 08:44:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 08:44:34 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14avtp-0000Yb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 08:35:53 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14avto-0000YW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Mar 2001 08:35:52 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id IAA00088; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 08:37:56 GMT Received: (qmail 7408 invoked from network); 8 Mar 2001 09:27:16 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 8 Mar 2001 09:27:16 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id JAA27854; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 09:15:05 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma027809; Thu, 8 Mar 01 09:14:43 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-3.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 08:40:10 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-3.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 08:34:49 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03A7@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Transcontinental modes - what next? Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 08:35:00 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: www.hf-inst.co.uk has all the documentation and can supply the modules. It was also written up in the RSGB's Dec 2000 Radio Communication. With a 5MHz clock source, it will allow steps as low as 1.1mHz. WIth the maximum 120MHz clock, frequency steps will be 0.028Hz. Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: Alberto di Bene [mailto:dibene@usa.net] > Sent: 2001-03-07 17:27 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: Re: Transcontinental modes - what next? > > Any URL for this ? Is the interfacing described somewhere on > the Internet ? > Would that board be adequate for steps of 0.16 Hz ? TNX. > > 73 Alberto I2PHD > > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4055 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 21:29:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 21:29:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 27013 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 21:29:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 21:29:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14alO7-0005do-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 21:22:27 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [129.217.219.180] (helo=mb.uni-dortmund.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14alO6-0005dj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 21:22:26 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [129.217.231.227] (account ) by mb.uni-dortmund.de (CommuniGate Pro WebUser 3.2) with HTTP id 1773704 for ; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 22:21:59 +0100 From: "Haiko Hebig" Subject: Re: LF: 7S6SAJ antenna demolition To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Mailer: CommuniGate Pro Web Mailer v.3.2 Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 22:21:59 +0100 Message-ID: In-reply-to: <002001c0a733$8a0aace0$346697d4@W98.swipnet.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Always sad to see antennas being broken down (but what a luck for 7S6SAJ being allowed to use it!). I forwarded this message to the Germany A-DX mailing list (general Shortwave mailing list). Sadly, I do not understand the Swedish language - perhaps can give me someone an idea what was said in the TV coverage? 73, Haiko From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11349 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 19:59:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 19:59:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 14471 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 19:59:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 19:59:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ajyu-0005BC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 19:52:20 +0000 Received: from mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ajyt-0005B4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 19:52:19 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.181.39]) by mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010307195128.PPBZ7107089.mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 08:51:28 +1300 Message-ID: <00b301c0a740$f67ff3a0$42b21bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <18142.200103071719@gemini> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Transcontinental modes - what next? Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 08:57:41 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jim, Your statement > All this means that the spectrum available for > a group of transmitting stations participating in "transatlantic tests" > is probably only 100Hz. assumes that the EU band plan can not adapt to demand. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7315 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 19:56:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 19:56:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 9093 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 19:56:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 19:56:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ajuv-0005Aa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 19:48:13 +0000 Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ajuu-0005AS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 19:48:12 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.178.135]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010307194722.VBKD15770362.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Thu, 8 Mar 2001 08:47:22 +1300 Message-ID: <00a201c0a740$63a3d240$42b21bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <14313.200103061746@gemini> <01d501c0a69b$569c4f00$5bb51bca@xtr743187> <3AA601E8.5D3A6939@usa.net> Subject: LF: Re: RE: Transcontinental modes - what next? Date: Thu, 8 Mar 2001 08:32:29 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alberto > Hi all, > which would you all prefer as a way to frequency-shift your TX ? > With frequency shift I mean many steps, separated by a fraction of an Hertz. > The first two possibilities that come to my mind are an audio output from the > sound card (requiring then a mixer to bring the tone to the wanted freq.), > or a binary value output from, say, the parallel port, which then would require > a small external board with a DDS or a microcontroller to drive the TX. > > No linearity requirements will be needed. I need your input to not start in a > false direction. TNX for any advices. My preference is to transceive via a PC sound card, and use the likes of an SSB transceiver, i.e. very little different to practices for HF digital modes, except much longer message times. When fine tuning is available on a sound card, it is a very convenient way to arrange for quite accurate LF carriers. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23477 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 18:37:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 18:37:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 26745 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 18:37:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 18:37:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aihZ-0004mg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 18:30:21 +0000 Received: from mail2.dada.it ([195.110.96.69] helo=mail.dada.it) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aihW-0004mb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 18:30:19 +0000 Received: (qmail 14714 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 18:29:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cestag) (195.110.103.115) by mail.dada.it with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 18:29:47 -0000 Message-ID: <000d01c0a734$82118c60$73676ec3@cestag> From: "cesare tagliabue" To: "LF group" Subject: LF: qso ik5zpv/ct1drp Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:28:37 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------030001030903080902050105" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------030001030903080902050105 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
        Hi Brian and all
    Yesterday evening, around 20.30 UTC I saw part of your QSO with IK5ZPV, the signal from Portugal was very good here in Florence, attached a little screenshot.
    73   Cesare
 
Cesare Tagliabue   I 5 TGC
WW-Loc  JN53PS
e-mail: cestag@dada.it
url: http://www.dadacasa.com/i5tgc
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(212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 18:30:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 20590 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 18:30:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 18:30:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aiaq-0004iW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 18:23:24 +0000 Received: from fep02.swip.net ([130.244.199.130] helo=fep02-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aiap-0004iR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 18:23:23 +0000 Received: from W98 ([212.151.102.52]) by fep02-svc.swip.net (InterMail vM.5.01.02.00 201-253-122-103-101-20001108) with SMTP id <20010307182303.GUMU18546.fep02-svc.swip.net@W98> for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:23:03 +0100 Message-ID: <002001c0a733$8a0aace0$346697d4@W98.swipnet.se> From: "C Andersson" To: "RSGB LF Group" Subject: LF: 7S6SAJ antenna demolition Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 19:22:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Here's some pictures from the demolition of the longwave antenna in Kraak, Karlsborg which took place yesterday, 06 March. http://home5.swipnet.se/~w-54761/krk/7s6saj_the_end.htm And this is what the antenna looked like before: http://home5.swipnet.se/~w-54761/7s6saj.JPG The 7S6SAJ operation on 136 kHz (in Feb 2000) became the last time this antenna was in use. /sm6pxj (some better pictures may appear later on) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9094 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 17:40:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 17:40:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 15570 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 17:40:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 17:40:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ahjK-0004PE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 17:28:06 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from d06lmsgate-2.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ahjI-0004P3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 17:28:05 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by d06lmsgate-2.uk.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id RAA104776 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 17:12:21 GMT Received: from usa.net (ss9.pok.socks.ibm.com [9.14.3.74]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id RAA106758 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 17:27:10 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AA66F74.A3936445@usa.net> Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 18:27:17 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Transcontinental modes - what next? References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03A2@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > > The best route of course is just to use the serial port to control a DDS > - and HF-Instruments has now supplied around 100 suitable DDS modules. > Any URL for this ? Is the interfacing described somewhere on the Internet ? Would that board be adequate for steps of 0.16 Hz ? TNX. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21504 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 17:27:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 17:27:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 28608 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 17:27:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 17:27:50 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ahbU-0004OR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 17:20:00 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ahbS-0004OD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 17:19:58 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44]) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14ahb5-0003IY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 17:19:35 +0000 Message-ID: <18142.200103071719@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 17:24:08 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Re: Transcontinental modes - what next? X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Some useful points raised on the subject of Transcontinental modes - here are some responses: The simplest way to improve the capabilities of existing methods is undoubtedly what G3LDO suggests - tailoring the QRSS dot length to the prevailing conditions. As W4DEX observes, there are often times when faster keying could be used to advantage. But to do this requires feedback from receiving to transmitting station so that dot lengths at both ends can be adjusted, to acheive any benefit. There is no point in the receiving station reducing bandwidth without the transmitting station increasing dot length, and vice versa. This could be done with the aid of a phone call, HF talkback, etc, but to me this is missing the point a bit - it's much more impressive if an LF contact can take place without any "external assistance". One way to do it might be to change the signal reporting system from the TMO good, bad or indifferent, to a single letter system where the letters represent "OK for 3s dots", "OK for 10s dots" etc. That way, both stations could start with long dot lengths, and adjust speed accordingly as the contact progressed. If this could be made to work efficiently, I think it would be a great help. I used the figure of 1 hour for a QSO because in my experience, this is a typical duration for a propagation "lift". Occasionally, I have seen good signals for up to 2 hours continuously. I don't think I have ever seen a 4 hour lift as reported by CT1DRP - maybe propagation is different at his more southerly QTH? I set a bandwidth of 10Hz based on the experience of the last few months. The total LF band is 2.1kHz, but a large chunk of this is the long standing "CW Only" band segment, and various other parts of the band are not really usable at any particular QTH because of various types of QRM; CFH for example. As I recall, the use of 135.9 - 136 was a sort of consensus amongst North American stations as to what were usable receiving frequencies for weak signals. There are big practical advantages in having 2 segments with some separation in frequency. Weak DX stations can then be received without the RX being de-sensitised by the local stations transmitting to them. All this means that the spectrum available for a group of transmitting stations participating in "transatlantic tests" is probably only 100Hz. This segment is likely to include assorted other narrow-band modes, so there would only be room for one or at most 2 MS100, 40Hz bandwidth BPSK signals. In the short term this is not a big problem, but with increased activity on this mode it would soon become one. Unless a high bit rate proves absolutely neccessary, it would seem to make sense in the long term to design systems that only require small bandwidths, so that several stations can transmit for extended periods without mutual interference. For general QSO use with reasonable signal strengths, a wider bandwidth would be perfectly reasonable in the digi-modes band segment, with the advantage of quicker QSOs. As far as frequency stability requirements go, the recent use of very slow QRSS has seen the sudden improvement of amateur LF frequency control to within small fractions of 1Hz. It could be made better still fairly easily. For operation of the Decca TX at 1200W PEP in BPSK mode, amplitude modulation of the PA DC supply was essential to get reasonable sideband levels. It will work quite happily with no amplitude control, but the sidebands go on for ever... The modulator circuit is quite big of course, but not unreasonably so. The unwanted sidebands are 40dB or more down on the main lobe of the signal. The overall efficiency is about 75 - 80%, so still much better than a linear amplifier. The modulator circuit only needs the logic level phase keying signal and the 136kHz carrier as input. At the moment, it is hard wired CMOS logic and analogue bits, but much of it could be put on a PIC or similar. This eliminates the need for a soundcard and it's attendant wrinkles, so excellent frequency accuracy and stability are easily achieved. For receive, I am using G4JNT's very simple PIC implementation of the VE2IQ interface - it is also easy to set up the frequency very accurately with this. To the software developers, I would say that soundcards are probably best avoided for BPSK or similar modes. They work fine for QRSS, but this mode is relatively not fussy about frequency accuracy. I suppose the benefit of a sound card is that it provides a ready made A/D, D/A converter module that can be plugged into the MIC input of a ready made HF tranceiver to generate an RF output. But an HF rig does not make a very good LF transmitter by itself, and the combined frequency errors of rig and soundcard, plus the "compatability" issues that come with soundcards, have already caused plenty of hair loss, both for software writers and the people using them. A transmitter that generates the BPSK waveform directly at the RF frequency is simpler overall, and probably capable of better performance and efficiency. Any LF transmitter requires quite a lot of home construction, and dedicated interfaces can be quite simple, so I would suggest that this is the better way. The VE2IQ/G4JNT interface already exists for receive, and only requires a serial port on the computer, so I guess it would be easier to program too. It was funny that the postings about the "WOLF" mode crossed mine - I have not looked at it thoroughly yet, but I would certainly be interested to try some tests. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13375 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 17:00:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 17:00:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 7060 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 17:00:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 17:00:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ahBt-0004DH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 16:53:33 +0000 Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ahBr-0004DC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 16:53:31 +0000 Received: from modem-103.anadune.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.106.103] helo=g3aqc) by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14ahBX-0003Ul-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 16:53:12 +0000 Message-ID: <002501c0a727$4833eea0$b294883e@g3aqc> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. LF Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:53:51 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Many thanks John for the report, I will have another go tonight.
Same time same format. 73s  Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10710 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 16:53:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 16:53:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 19800 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 16:53:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 16:53:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ah4d-0004CF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 16:46:03 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ah4c-0004CA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 16:46:02 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 16:37:27 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 16:37:24 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Chat Room Message-ID: <3AA663C4.31831.1A7BE8F@localhost> In-reply-to: <3AA6CE50.B5629180@ns.sympatico.ca> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > 73 de John VE1ZJ PS how does one get on the DJ8WL chat line? John, This should be the DK8KW chat room. DJ8WL is the late Peter Bobeck (alias DA0LF) and I am very much afraid that I gave his call to you in error. The chat room is at: http://www.qru.de/chat.htm Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25503 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 16:04:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 16:04:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 20090 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 16:04:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 16:04:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14agIV-0003tk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 15:56:19 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14agIT-0003tf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 15:56:18 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.94.63]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 11:55:11 -0400 Message-ID: <3AA6CE50.B5629180@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 16:12:01 -0800 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: lf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, Condx were quite poor last night, but G3AQC was readable from 2300 hours for a couple of hours. He was only "M" copy . Most of the time I did not have the 60 Hz QRM 73 de John VE1ZJ PS how does one get on the DJ8WL chat line? From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18572 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 14:54:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 14:54:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 2332 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 14:54:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 14:54:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14afDS-0003XE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 14:47:02 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.176] (helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14afDR-0003X9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 14:47:01 +0000 Received: from [62.7.26.79] (helo=dave) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14afD7-00074Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 14:46:42 +0000 Message-ID: <000d01c0a715$956749e0$4f1a073e@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <14313.200103061746@gemini> Subject: LF: Re: Transatlantic modes - what next? Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 14:47:05 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC >3)Occupy a bandwidth of less than 10Hz - this is neccesary >because of the very limited spectrum available, and the fact that >several stations will be operating simultaneously. Although this is a clear requirement for QRSS qsos in order that everyone can have a fair chance within defined segments for QRSS operation, if the discussed other data modes allow much faster qso times then it should not be a requirement for them. If the qso time can be reduced to 15 minutes or less (as I sure these modes will allow) then operators can time share and all have qsos in sequence. In any case, unless qso times are reduced to these lengths qsos will remain rare as they will be unable to take advantage of relatively short openings. 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@btinternet.com dsergeant@iee.org http://www.btinternet.com/~dsergeant From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12657 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 14:06:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 14:06:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 2351 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 14:06:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 14:06:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aeRU-0003Dz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 13:57:28 +0000 Received: from tomts6.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.26] helo=tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aeRS-0003Du-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 13:57:27 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.209.110.132]) by tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010307135601.RTLI25007.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 08:56:01 -0500 Message-ID: <001d01c0a70e$7691a0d0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20010307120313.08b7191a@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: LF: Intercontinental modes - what next? Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 08:56:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jim and the others who have commented - Wonderful, a great start to a discussion that is needed at this time of year. I offer that there are two, as I see it, distinct directions we are moving to, the first is the use of DFT processes for detecting power in smaller and smaller buckets (read as longer and longer information bits) and secondly those who are into using information coding to decrease the time for the transfer of information at the expense of needing a higher level of signal. The later is what I consider to be the more tranditional mode of amateur radio operating. Jim's three step "wish list" is an excellent documentation of the second mode, a more traditional orientation, of item two above. I wish those who wish to focus on what I call the second mode well, and good luck going down that road - I however will not be with you in that area of focus for next year. For the rest of the 2001 spring season I am available to run long duration 90 second per bit QSO attempts or to have a special session of transmitting WOLF data if there is any interest in Europe in having such a test session. WOLF is extremely difficult for me to send, the I/O implementation choosen by Stewart when mixed with my situation here makes if very difficult - but if there is interest I am available to run a couple of overnight tests before the end of this season. I have loaded 18 hours of WOLF in one file, in 25 minute segments, thank goodness for 30 gigabyte hard drives! I will have to build up some hardware and do a fair amount of software to make WOLF work from here - if the interest is present I will do it. The operative words here are to set a time period and a reasonable level of participation from Europe. My work going forward from here will focus on extream weak signal detection which continues with the goals I set here when I came to the LF community some 18 months ago. My focus will now shift to Time and Frequency coherency to not worse than a part or two in 10-11th. I now have GPS controlled systems at both my home and the remote site, they are not yet complete but they exist and will be completly functional by the fall. The status of LF operation from Canada remains tenuous. The TransAtlantic II project that was the basis of Canadian participation on LF has been eclipsed from bordering on believability and achievability a year ago to common practice in so short a time as to place in question much of the "common wisdom" of the day. A plan for an LF allocation in Canada is before our regulatory authority, the issue is - will enough time and resources be available to do the work of authorizing general use of the LF band be available in the near future? The next issue is how many amateurs will build the systems and learn the tricks to have an active LF community - there will be at least a year of growth needed. With just three transmitting stations in Canada now we have seen the limits of LF paticipation, aural only operation only by Jack, VE1ZZ, and severly hampered (foliage challenged) LF operation by Mitch, VE3OT and my own setup here in eastern Ontario. The situation of an LF allocation in the United States is certainly not understood by myself - but it can be said there is a community waiting for the opportunity to make use of an LF allocation, but at the moment there is no certainty of participation and this community will need growth time as well. This being said, there is also some opportunity in the information coding area. WOLF uses an internal synchronization process, very costly in information bits. There are opportunities in Time Coherency as well as the Turbo Product Codes that are achieving very high levels of performance approaching the Shannon limit. (By the way Dr. Shannon passed away only a month ago I learned in yesterday's newspaper). I personally want very much to understand these coding processes and demodulation/modulation methods enough to write my own code and experiment with them on the air, this is the only way I will return to the information coding area of operation that I mentioned above. The current operational status from here is that I continue to see many trace level weak signals from Europe almost every night. Many of them are using bit rates that result is complete smearing here and are not readable at all. I have tested the 7 level FSK coding on 160M and as well on 20 Meters (hiding in amongst the DX Beacons on 14100 kHz - they are spread out over about 150 Hz - terrible waste of spectrum Hi). I do not recommend this work go further, there is far greater value in the information coding mentioned above and it is important to focus our efforts in order to make meaningful progress. I have no idea why but I have still not seen a single recognizable DFCW signal on this side of the Atlantic. The two different directions that I mentioned at the start of this memo, DFT with longer and longer bits, and the use of information coding to increase the signalling rate are I suggest critical to the evolution of LF. I ask each of you to consider and comment on this segmentation and what you see as your participation in the "speaking slowly" mode of operation. I am keen to find others to work with in this area of extremely weak signal communications. I encourage others who might wish to focus on really really weak signal work to contact me directly. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7712 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 11:11:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 11:11:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 9551 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 11:11:23 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 11:11:23 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14abjY-0002J2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 11:03:56 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14abjV-0002Ix-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 11:03:55 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id MAA174816 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 12:03:33 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010307120313.08b7191a@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 12:03:13 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic modes - what next? In-reply-to: <14313.200103061746@gemini> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Jim & group, Excellent paper from Jim, it seems a good starting point for an open discussion. One of the point that Jim mentions is the duration of a QSO. While making the recent changes on QRS I have been doing some thinking how we 'speed up' things. I started with analyzing some typical QRSS (or DFCW) QSO's and came, similar to Jim, to the conclusion that it takes about 50 characters to complete a QSO. The main if that is exchanged are callsigns (or parts of it), what means that there is a rather random distribution of letters. So the 'smart coding' of CW won't be of much use as 'E' and 'Y' will have the same occurance. Digging a bit further into the 'typical QSO' shows that the 50 characters can be divided in : - 32 letters (almost random) - 18 figures (almost random) - 10 spaces Next I started comparing the modes, starting with the existing ones : - in CW (QRSS) the average letter has a length of 11.2 dots, the average figure is 17.0 dots long and a space is 6.0 dots long (inter character spacing included). - in DFCW the average letter is 4.1 dots long, the average figure is 5.0 dots long and the a space is 2.0 dots long That means that the typical QRSS QSO will take 724 dotlengths while a typical DFCW QSO will take 211 dotlengths, a time saving factor of 3.43. So at 3 sec/dot it will take 36'12" in QRSS and 10'33" in DFCW. At 10 sec/dit it will take 2 hours in QRSS and 35 minutes in DFCW. And at 60 sec/dot it will take 12 hours in QRSS and 3.5 hours in DFCW. Or the other way arround, if you want a complete QSO in 1 hour then you can use 5 sec/dot in QRSS and 17 sec/dot in DFCW. As mentioned by Jim, DFCW is a bit more difficult to implement, as you need to FSK the transmitter. So the main advantage of QRSS is its simplicity. The efficiency of QRSS can be improved by : - reducing the dash/dot ratio from 3 to 2 - reducing the inter character spacing from 3 dotlengths to 2 dotlengths - reducing the space length from 6 dots to 4 dots As a result the average letter will be 8.8 dots long, the average figure will be 13.5 dots long and a space will be 4 dots long. A typical (50 character) QSO will now be 565 dots long, a time saving factor of 1.28. This means a 8 minute saving on a 3sec/dot QSO, a 26 minute saving on a 10 sec/dot QSO and a 2h40m saving on a 60 sec/dot QSO. This is not nearly as good as DFCW, but it can be achieved without any changes to the equipement. If we want more time efficient coding then we have to go to 'multiple frequency modes'. A possibility is a 7 tone mode that will give us the possibility to transmit 49 characters (enough for our purpose) at a typical length of 3 dots/char (or 2 dots/char without inter character spacing). At 3 dots/char a typical QSO will be 150 dots long, a time saving factor of 1.41 compared to DFCW. At 2 dots/char a typical QSO will be 100 dots long, a time saving factor of 2.11 compared to DFCW. But at 2 dot/char this system has 2 disadvantages: 1. We loose synchronisation (so the RX has to know the start time of the TX) 2. We loose the reference frequency, so any offset between TX and RX will cause problems (at 3 dots/char we can use the inter character spacing to transmit a reference frequency). Technical implementation of multi tone modes more difficult than DFCW. So to be honest, taking into account that only very few stations (abt. 4-5 in Europe) have set the step from QRSS to DFCW I'm afraid that the technical implementation of a multi tone more will be a real burden. Finally there were some suggestions for double tone modes, where 2 tones wil be sent parallel. First of all you will need a linear PA, with reduced efficiency, more stabilty problems and more difficult to built. But is there really an advantage ? If you transmit 2 tones, each tone will be 3dB down compared to a single tone mode (if you take the reduced efficiency into account it will be even 4dB or more). So what is the difference in transmitting 2 tones parallel during 20 seconds or 2 tones sequential during each 10 seconds ? SNR will be the same. Another 'branch' are the modes as BPSK and WOLF (what is in fact BPSK with some added 'intelligence'). First of all BPSK has an advantage of 6dB over traditional 'on-off keying', at the same dotlength (while on-off keying is a kind of 1 to 0 switching BPSK is a kind of 1 to -1 switching). Further these modes have a different approach of improving SNR. Instead of transmitting the characters very slow (as QRSS/DFCW does) they transmit the characters rather fast and improve SNR by repeating them over and over and doing some smart error correction. An additional difference occurs at the RX side. QRSS/DFCW are received 'wideband', this means you can observe a rather big part of the spectrum for DFCW/QRSS signals. This has the advantage that, even at signal bandwidths of 0.01Hz, there is nor problem to 'hit' the transmitted signal. One can even 'decode' more that one signal at the same time. Opposite to this all receiving software for BPSK / WOLF is 'narrowband'. This means that you have to 'hit' the transmitted signal very accurate and you can receive only 1 signal at a time. BPSK modulation is not so difficult, in theory you just need an XOR gate in the drver circuit. But if you modulate you TX 'rude' the bandwidth of the signal will be rather wide. In PSK this is solved by 'enveloping' the signal (so you have zero amplitude at phase switching) but this requires a linear PA and is not very power efficient. Lowfers tend to use the 'rude' BPSK, but they have a 30kHz wide band and are limited to 1 Watt input (few mW ERP) while we hams can run up to 1W ERP (1kW input or more) and have only a 2.1kHz wide (or narrow) band. Recents tests of the WOLF system have shown that it has some possibilities. In my opinion the best way to check what WOLF is worth transatlantic is to have a strong WOLF beacon in VE/W and as many as possible stations monitoring this beacon in Europe. When good software becomes available it will be no problem to get a few dozen receving sites all over Europe, the WOLF system just invites for unattended (overnight) recepetion. That way we would also avoid inter-EU QRM during this test phase. So, we would need someone who is willing (and able) to write a good piece of WOLF receiving software (using the soundcard, running under windows) and who someone (at the other side of the pond) who can setup a 24h beacon. So far my contribution, 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28579 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 10:24:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 10:24:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 7282 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 10:24:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 10:24:55 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ab1J-00021m-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 10:18:13 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ab1F-00021h-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 10:18:10 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id KAA01822; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 10:20:16 GMT Received: (qmail 19159 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 11:09:40 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 11:09:40 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id KAA26455; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 10:57:33 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma026390; Wed, 7 Mar 01 10:57:10 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-3.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 10:22:28 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-3.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 10:17:22 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F9C03A2@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: : Transcontinental modes - what next? Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 10:17:20 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I was thinking of this aspect as well, for SMT Hell modesl. Most stations do not transvert, so soundcard output gives a problem. The parallel port is difficult, though not impossible, to utilise in this way through Windoze so I cam to the conclusion that the serial port is once again the optimum route. It may mean constructing a bit of hardware, but this need only be along the lines of a shift register/ latch and possibly a D/A converter to drive a varicap across a crystal. Alternatively, one of the many serial D/A converters around now could probably be driven directly from the serial port if this has its lines toggled in a non-standard way to match the serial format needed by the D/A - this may give Windoze software authors a headache but it can be done. The best route of course is just to use the serial port to control a DDS - and HF-Instruments has now supplied around 100 suitable DDS modules. Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: Alberto di Bene [mailto:dibene@usa.net] > Sent: 2001-03-07 09:40 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: RE: Transcontinental modes - what next? > > > Hi all, > which would you all prefer as a way to > frequency-shift your TX ? > With frequency shift I mean many steps, separated by a > fraction of an Hertz. > The first two possibilities that come to my mind are an audio > output from the > sound card (requiring then a mixer to bring the tone to the > wanted freq.), > or a binary value output from, say, the parallel port, which > then would require > a small external board with a DDS or a microcontroller to > drive the TX. > > No linearity requirements will be needed. I need your input > to not start in a > false direction. TNX for any advices. > > 73 Alberto I2PHD > > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17259 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 10:09:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 10:09:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 12575 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 10:09:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 10:09:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aalE-0001t5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 10:01:36 +0000 Received: from amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.45]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aalC-0001t0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 10:01:34 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-18-142.easynet.co.uk [212.134.224.142]) by amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id DDC8517D7C for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 10:01:03 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000701c0a6ee$22c46f20$8ee086d4@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <14313.200103061746@gemini> Subject: LF: Re: Transatlantic modes - what next? Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:55:31 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jim said: > The QRSS modes easily meet 2 and 3; in order to meet 1, a dot > length of about 7 seconds maximum would be required. With the > best possible conditions, I guess several stations might manage > transatlantic QSOs with these dot lengths. However, it would > probably not be enough to reach the more inland parts of Canada, > or the USA and further afield. With the existing technology, as Jim says, two way transatlantic contacts have been shown to be possible with relatively short dot periods. The secret is to monitor LF conditions and then choose appropriate dot periods. With the VE1ZZ/VE1ZJ/G3LDO QSO, VE1ZZ used 3 second dots because he was using a relatively high erp, while I allocated myself (in the first instance) 10 second dots. In the event this worked so there was no need for me to increase the dot period. This method of optimum dot period selection can be used to optimise the QSO time so that it can be contained within a peak of good LF conditions. I think we got it right because our QSO lasted around 50 minutes. However, even with the 20w erp or so that VE1ZZ is using we had to wait for a couple of days before we could make our reverse crossband 136/80m contact on the 21/2. This goes to show that LF conditions are everything and that close liaison between the operators taking part in any tests is essential. I acknowledge that the QRSS coding is primitive but it has the advantage of simplicity and has shown itself to be successful. It will be interesting to see how things change now that the WOLF is at the door. Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10925 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 09:48:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 09:48:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 680 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 09:48:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 09:48:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aaRA-0001lD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 09:40:52 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from d06lmsgate-2.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aaR8-0001ky-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 09:40:51 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by d06lmsgate-2.uk.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id JAA110330 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:24:54 GMT Received: from usa.net (ss2.pok.socks.ibm.com [9.14.3.67]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id JAA160690 for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:39:43 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AA601E8.5D3A6939@usa.net> Date: Wed, 07 Mar 2001 10:39:52 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Transcontinental modes - what next? References: <14313.200103061746@gemini> <01d501c0a69b$569c4f00$5bb51bca@xtr743187> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, which would you all prefer as a way to frequency-shift your TX ? With frequency shift I mean many steps, separated by a fraction of an Hertz. The first two possibilities that come to my mind are an audio output from the sound card (requiring then a mixer to bring the tone to the wanted freq.), or a binary value output from, say, the parallel port, which then would require a small external board with a DDS or a microcontroller to drive the TX. No linearity requirements will be needed. I need your input to not start in a false direction. TNX for any advices. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22366 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 09:25:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 09:25:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 10 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 09:25:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 09:25:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aa4L-0001eV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 09:17:17 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aa4I-0001eQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 09:17:14 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 09:09:35 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 09:09:34 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic.G3XDV/G3AQC Message-ID: <3AA5FACE.31582.DBCF8@localhost> In-reply-to: <14aRCr-17Ato8C@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Hi Laurie > Hi Mike [cut] > the diff rx-input-voltage between ur signs is 10db +/-2db. > > Uwe/dj8wx jo43sv ant: inv.Ve with 340m and 400m lws Uwe, Many thanks for the picture again. It is interesting that Laurie is 8-12dB stronger than me as his ERP is only twice mine. It could be the take-off as Laurie is very close to the coast, or perhaps our antennas show some directivity. Also it is possible that the sky-wave and ground-wave combined in different phases. 73 Mike From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11469 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 00:13:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 00:13:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 25237 invoked from network); 7 Mar 2001 00:13:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 7 Mar 2001 00:13:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aRTb-0007AD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 00:06:47 +0000 Received: from mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.15]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aRTZ-0007A8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 00:06:46 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.181.103]) by mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010307000603.FROJ12046113.mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 13:06:03 +1300 Message-ID: <01d501c0a69b$569c4f00$5bb51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <14313.200103061746@gemini> Subject: LF: Re: Transcontinental modes - what next? Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 13:12:00 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Thanks to Jim M0BMU for generating a good discussion paper. I have a few comments: I've taken the liberty of changing a word in the title from transatlantic to transcontinental. I'm don't see why the occupied bandwidth should be arbitrarily restricted to 10 Hz. There could be something to gain from multicarriers, frequency diversity or "spread spectrum". Something like 50 Hz bandwidth may be a better arbitrary upper cap to nominate for occupied bandwidth. > One way to use longer dot lengths without increasing overall QSO > time is to use multiple frequencies - for example, DFCW, VA3LK's > 7-tone scheme, and VK2ZTO's one-tone-per character VFSKCW. VFSKCW uses a sound card but otherwise is very similar to DFCW. VK2ZTO's other scheme is frequency difference keying (FDK) which would appear to greatly reduce the need for high stability frequencies for transmitters, receivers or sound cards. I'm testing both VFSKCW and beta FDK. I'm still in discovery mode with WOLF, and that certainly looks interesting. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 143 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 23:59:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 23:59:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 20320 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 23:59:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 23:59:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aRDg-0006yO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 23:50:20 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout02.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.17]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aRDe-0006yJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 23:50:18 +0000 Received: from fwd07.sul.t-online.com by mailout02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14aRDE-00027q-00; Wed, 07 Mar 2001 00:49:52 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.227.109.75]) by fwd07.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14aRCr-17Ato8C; Wed, 7 Mar 2001 00:49:29 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001201c0a64f$fe8c2b00$3776883e@g3aqc> Subject: LF: Transatlantic.G3XDV/G3AQC X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------020504020802080203010500" Date: Wed, 7 Mar 2001 00:49:29 +0100 Message-ID: <14aRCr-17Ato8C@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020504020802080203010500 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit LAWRENCE MAYHEAD schrieb: > Hi John and All, > Glad to hear that there is still some TA propagation. I will run DFCW tonight > using 30 sec dots. Dot freq. 135,921.5 dash freq. > 135.922. I am very intrested to see wether this mode gets through, and would > appreciate any reports Start time 20:00utc > 73s Laurie. G3AQC. > Hi Laurie Hi Mike I made a 30 dots ARGO-screenshot at 2319utc 06.03.01 (enclosed). for better reading I took the ARGO sensitivity down and got 12db between the antenna and the first mixer of the receiver. the loads of the beginnings and endings of the dashes and dots seen in the pic enclosed in my todays first e-mail - so far not from FFT-processing - vanished. now ur line, Mike, is vy good readable. the diff rx-input-voltage between ur signs is 10db +/-2db. it is visible that the emission of Laurie has a "noise curtain" (as we do term it in the german language) up to +/- 100 Hz. 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(212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 22:46:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 10494 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 22:46:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 22:46:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aQ8G-0006VY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 22:40:40 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mtiwmhc24.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.49]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aQ8F-0006VT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 22:40:39 +0000 Received: from att.net ([12.77.29.139]) by mtiwmhc24.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20010306223948.CTGT14058.mtiwmhc24.worldnet.att.net@att.net> for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 22:39:48 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AA5673B.60FB6934@att.net> Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 17:39:55 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic modes - what next? References: <14313.200103061746@gemini> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz wrote: > > The QRSS modes easily meet 2 and 3; in order to meet 1, a dot > length of about 7 seconds maximum would be required. With the > best possible conditions, I guess several stations might manage > transatlantic QSOs with these dot lengths. However, it would > probably not be enough to reach the more inland parts of Canada, > or the USA and further afield. Jim, Several times your signal was strong enough here in North Carolina that I could have copied 7 second dots, maybe less. When I copied Laurie's complete call his signal was also strong enough for much shorter elements. Most of the nights that I could copy G3AQC, CT1DRP and your signal the best propagation lasted about one hour. For QRSS I think 10 to 20 second element DFCW would work well. Dexter From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7024 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 19:41:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 19:41:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 11581 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 19:41:28 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 19:41:28 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aND6-0005KM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 19:33:28 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail2.wwisp.com ([207.98.230.22] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aND5-0005KH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 19:33:27 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from les.highnoonfilm.com (adsl-209.wwisp.net [207.98.240.109]) by mail2.wwisp.com (8.9.3/8.9.0) with ESMTP id NAA13943 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 13:33:00 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010306131314.00a62c98@highnoonfilm.com> X-Sender: les@highnoonfilm.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 13:18:18 -0600 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Les Rayburn" Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic modes WOLF In-reply-to: <200103061842.NAA3114846@indyweb.cgocable.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I would have to second Bill de Carle's remarks about the future of long distance LF communication being made via WOLF mode. While WOLF is a form of BPSK, it offers significant advantages. And while frequency stability is more of an issue than when using QRSS mode, we have had remarkable results in our on-air testing using frequency standards that should be easy for any amateur to maintain. For the latest news on WOLF operations in the states, and links to resources to get you started, please visit the Noise Floor Web Site: http://www.highnoonfilm.com/xmgr/updates/wolf.htm Les Rayburn, N1LF Les Rayburn, director High Noon Film & Interactive 100 Centerview Drive Suite 111 Birmingham, AL 35216 (205) 824-8930 (205) 824-8960 FAX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8028 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 19:17:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 19:17:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 2736 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 19:17:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 19:17:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aMrh-00058R-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 19:11:21 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aMrf-00058M-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 19:11:20 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.65.4]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 13:19:46 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AA5909E.D9D38D8D@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 17:36:32 -0800 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic: on now References: <000901c0a5b3$863f5380$c16068d5@oemcomputer> <3.0.1.16.20010306154338.2fbf9654@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Rik Das mittler signal war M0BMU 73 von John VE1ZJ Rik Strobbe wrote: > Hallo Uli, > > Das obere Signal ist Mike (DV = Ende seines Rufzeichens) > Das mittlere Signal ist mir unbekant, aber es schaut recht stark aus > Das untere Signal ist DF6NM > > 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4291 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 18:49:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 18:49:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 3613 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 18:49:50 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 18:49:50 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aMQc-0004ur-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 18:43:22 +0000 Received: from indyweb.cgocable.ca ([205.151.69.200]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aMQZ-0004um-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 18:43:20 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from 220-165.lr.cgocable.ca (220-165.lr.cgocable.ca [24.226.220.165]) by indyweb.cgocable.ca (8.9.3 (MessagingDirect 1.0.4)/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA3114846 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 13:42:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <200103061842.NAA3114846@indyweb.cgocable.ca> X-Sender: bill1@cgocable.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 13:42:53 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Bill de Carle" Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic modes - what next? Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 05:50 PM 3/6/01 +0000, Jim Moritz wrote: [..] >What is required for a practical 2 way LF DX mode, capable of >operating at the extremes of distance and SNR? A while ago, >G4JNT posted an estimate of what might be theoretically possible >using different techniques; another way is to look at what is >needed to serve our purposes. I would suggest the following "wish >list": > >1)Be able to complete a minimal QSO (about 50 characters) in one >hour. This would give the lowest rate of signalling capable of using >the propagation lifts to complete a QSO "in one sitting". > >2)Be able to transmit/receive all alphanumeric characters and >essential punctuation/procedure signs, in order to be generally >usable by any station without special arrangements. > >3)Occupy a bandwidth of less than 10Hz - this is neccesary >because of the very limited spectrum available, and the fact that >several stations will be operating simultaneously. > >The QRSS modes easily meet 2 and 3; in order to meet 1, a dot >length of about 7 seconds maximum would be required. With the >best possible conditions, I guess several stations might manage >transatlantic QSOs with these dot lengths. However, it would >probably not be enough to reach the more inland parts of Canada, >or the USA and further afield. By the way, I reckon about 6dB SNR >is needed to see a QRSS signal on a spectrogram under >favourable conditions; if there is much QRN, 10dB is probably >required. It is possible to see a trace of signal with 0dB or less >SNR. All this is fairly subjective, however. [..] >Then there are the "digital" modes, specifically BPSK. Currently, >most effort has been expended on the MS100, 10 bits per second >variety of BPSK. This easily meets conditions 1 and 2. However, >for the same signal levels, QRSS seems to do better with >acceptable, if much slower, speed. Also, the bandwidth occupied is >roughly 40Hz, too wide for condition 3. But with the 16 bits per >character coding scheme normally used for BPSK, 2250 >characters per hour can be transmitted, far higher than is actually >required. So the bit rate could be greatly reduced, and/or the >coding altered to a greatly increased number of bits per character, >hopefully improving the readability of the signal. Reducing the >overall speed by a factor as much as 45 would still meet condition >1. To fit into a 10Hz bandwidth, the bit rate would have to be 2.5 >bits/sec (MS400) or less, so you could encode each character with >up to 180 bits if you wanted to. Or, sticking with 16 bit codes, 0.22 >bits/second (MS4500) would still be OK. What we want is the best >trade off between bit rate and encoding for very poor signal to >noise ratio. I don't know a great deal about this subject, but I >expect some readers of this reflector already know the answer. Apart from the bandwidth, I believe Stewart Nelson's WOLF system is the best approach that most closely meets all the requirements. It shouldn't be difficult to slow down WOLF's 100 msec keying rate if you really have to reduce the bandwidth. Of course Tx, Rx frequency stability and accuracy will become increasingly important as with any slow BPSK mode. >So any suggestions/comments would be welcome - well, almost >any! By the way, I now have BPSK at up to 1200W PEP from my >Decca TX, if anyone would like a sked/tests, etc. If you'd care to run a test using WOLF, I'd be happy to send you the results. For more information on WOLF, see: www.scgroup.com/ham/wolf.html Bill VE2IQ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19155 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 17:51:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 17:51:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 22039 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 17:51:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 17:51:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aLXp-0004Uw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 17:46:45 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aLXn-0004Ur-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 17:46:43 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14aLXT-0000SW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 17:46:23 +0000 Message-ID: <14313.200103061746@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 17:50:56 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Transatlantic modes - what next? X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, The winter has seen a fair amount of success in the transatlantic tests, and now that the "season" is probably near to an end, it is worth thinking about what the next steps could be, in good time for next winter. The following ramblings were the result of thinking what I could do next, in the way of technical development of my LF station, in particular regarding what would be the best mode to work on: ------------------------------------------------------------------------------------- So far, all reported trans-atlantic signals have used some type of QRSS. The variable parameter is the dot length - longer dots mean better signal-to-noise ratio, with the penalty of slower message transmission. Recognisable callsigns have been produced with 60s dots or longer, which requires more than an hour to transmit one callsign. ON7YD's DFCW roughly halves the time required, at the expense of doubling the bandwidth occupied by the transmitted signal and being slightly more complex to implement, which seems to be a good trade-off. The maximum radiated power available to several stations has reached the 1W ERP level in Europe, and somewhat more than this for the stations active in Canada. The ERP that is feasible depends mostly on how big an antenna can be put up, but in any case is limited by regulation to 1W in Europe, which eliminates further improvements. ERPs of a few 100 milliwatts have been sufficient to cross the Atlantic on several occasions. Under optimum conditions, with favorably sited and equipped stations, 3s per dot QRSS signals have been passed both ways across the Atlantic, but this is the exception rather than the rule. The problem with longer duration dots is that any kind of 2-way contact takes an excessively long time, running into several hours. This problem is compounded by the fact that propagation "lifts" on LF only last an hour or so. So it would seem we are reaching the practical limits with QRSS. What is required for a practical 2 way LF DX mode, capable of operating at the extremes of distance and SNR? A while ago, G4JNT posted an estimate of what might be theoretically possible using different techniques; another way is to look at what is needed to serve our purposes. I would suggest the following "wish list": 1)Be able to complete a minimal QSO (about 50 characters) in one hour. This would give the lowest rate of signalling capable of using the propagation lifts to complete a QSO "in one sitting". 2)Be able to transmit/receive all alphanumeric characters and essential punctuation/procedure signs, in order to be generally usable by any station without special arrangements. 3)Occupy a bandwidth of less than 10Hz - this is neccesary because of the very limited spectrum available, and the fact that several stations will be operating simultaneously. The QRSS modes easily meet 2 and 3; in order to meet 1, a dot length of about 7 seconds maximum would be required. With the best possible conditions, I guess several stations might manage transatlantic QSOs with these dot lengths. However, it would probably not be enough to reach the more inland parts of Canada, or the USA and further afield. By the way, I reckon about 6dB SNR is needed to see a QRSS signal on a spectrogram under favourable conditions; if there is much QRN, 10dB is probably required. It is possible to see a trace of signal with 0dB or less SNR. All this is fairly subjective, however. One way to use longer dot lengths without increasing overall QSO time is to use multiple frequencies - for example, DFCW, VA3LK's 7-tone scheme, and VK2ZTO's one-tone-per character VFSKCW. Taking this to it's logical extreme, it would be possible to assign different frequencies to all possible combinations of callsigns and signal reports, so each over of a QSO would just consist of a single tone. However, it would then be difficult to meet condition 2. I guess there must be an optimum trade off between number of tones, difficulty of encoding and decoding, redundancy and so on. I suspect it might be 2 tone DFCW, but I don't know. Then there are the "digital" modes, specifically BPSK. Currently, most effort has been expended on the MS100, 10 bits per second variety of BPSK. This easily meets conditions 1 and 2. However, for the same signal levels, QRSS seems to do better with acceptable, if much slower, speed. Also, the bandwidth occupied is roughly 40Hz, too wide for condition 3. But with the 16 bits per character coding scheme normally used for BPSK, 2250 characters per hour can be transmitted, far higher than is actually required. So the bit rate could be greatly reduced, and/or the coding altered to a greatly increased number of bits per character, hopefully improving the readability of the signal. Reducing the overall speed by a factor as much as 45 would still meet condition 1. To fit into a 10Hz bandwidth, the bit rate would have to be 2.5 bits/sec (MS400) or less, so you could encode each character with up to 180 bits if you wanted to. Or, sticking with 16 bit codes, 0.22 bits/second (MS4500) would still be OK. What we want is the best trade off between bit rate and encoding for very poor signal to noise ratio. I don't know a great deal about this subject, but I expect some readers of this reflector already know the answer. Beacon signals are a bit different; here, the only requirement is to positively identify the signal, and make some estimate of the signal level. An on-off keyed carrier with a simple repeating pattern and a well defined frequency is easily identified with simple equipment, and has the advantage of flexibility at the receiving end - you can make the bandwidth arbitrarily narrow, or perhaps take advantage of the coherent nature of the signal, to improve detection capability. You can also monitor several signals at once. So any suggestions/comments would be welcome - well, almost any! By the way, I now have BPSK at up to 1200W PEP from my Decca TX, if anyone would like a sked/tests, etc. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10650 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 17:45:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 17:45:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 5861 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 17:45:12 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 17:45:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aLR9-0004Tq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 17:39:51 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aLR8-0004Tl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 17:39:50 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA40836 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 18:39:28 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010306183908.3ed79b48@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 18:39:08 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: WOLF Mode Records! In-reply-to: <5.0.2.1.0.20010303105753.02bda910@highnoonfilm.com> References: <001401c0a3fd$2ac9de60$248801d4@g4jnt> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 11:15 3/03/01 -0600, N1LF wrote: >... >The results were: > >CW (by ear) -18db below the noise >QRSS (3 sec dots) -27db below the noise >QRSS(S) (60 sec dots) -31db below the noise >WOLF -40db below the noise >... The above figures seem a bit strange to me : QRSS at 60 sec/dot should be 13dB better than QRSS at 3 sec/dot. I won't argue about 1..2 dB more or less, but a difference of 9dB (4dB vs 13dB) seems hard to believe. Recent tests (eg. the QSO between G3XDV and CT1DRP) have shown even between 3 sec/dot and 10 sec/dot there is a significant difference (from a bare 'T' to a solid 'O') that is probably close to 4dB. Also the 9dB between 'by ear' and 3 sec/dot seems rather conservative, other tests (eg. those done by DK8KW) have shown a 15dB difference. I'm not saying that WOLF is not superior to QRSS, but the above figures seem not correct to me. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22794 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 17:28:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 17:28:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 21307 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 17:28:55 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 17:28:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aLB3-0004N0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 17:23:13 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aLB2-0004Mv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 17:23:12 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA30648 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 18:22:50 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010306182229.37d7f6e4@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 18:22:29 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: new version of QRS (v3.04) In-reply-to: <14aHmb-1kD1F2C@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> References: <000901c0a5b3$863f5380$c16068d5@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello all, I have a new version of QRS available that is adapted to the recent needs for longer dotlengths with more accurate timing. New features : - dotlengths up to 1 hour (OK, very long ... but I tried to be 'on the save side' for future developements) - possibility to syncronize transmission to the PC timer (eg. let the dots/dashes start exactly on the full minute at 60 sec/dot), I believe there is some gain to achieve if the receiver exactly knows when the dots start and stop - more precize timing, as the minimal errors that were not noticed at 3 sec./dot can become annoying at 60 sec./dot - improved QSK behaviour This new version can be (temporarily) downloaded from http://www.qsl.net/on7yd/QRS/qrs304.zip for final testing, if I get no bug reports within the next days it will be released via the known webpages. My thanks go to G3AQC and M0BMU who did a lot of testing over the last weeks and helped me to get all bug out (fingers crossed). Please do not put this version on other web places (yet) until I'm sure it is 100% bugfree and give an official release. 73, Rik ON7YD PS : I'm working on some soundcard output, hope to get it ready soon. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26251 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 17:10:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 17:10:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 3842 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 17:10:12 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 17:10:12 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aKrn-0004Ay-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 17:03:19 +0000 Received: from outbound.charter.net ([24.216.159.200] helo=front004.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aKrm-0004Ar-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 17:03:19 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [24.240.102.247] (HELO z6l3g7.highnoonfilm.com) by front004.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4b8) with ESMTP id 4862546 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 09:45:49 -0500 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010306084528.00a6e790@highnoonfilm.com> X-Sender: les@highnoonfilm.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 08:45:34 -0600 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Les Rayburn" Subject: LF: WOLF Mode Records! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On this side of the Atlantic, US Lowfers are experimenting with a new weak signal mode called "WOLF" developed by Stewart Nelson, KK7KA. It has proven to be far superior to QRSS(S) mode in both off air and on-air tests to date. Lyle Koehler, K0LR conducted off air tests where he mixed a random sample of LF noise with the desired signals from a variety of modes. The results were: CW (by ear) -18db below the noise QRSS (3 sec dots) -27db below the noise QRSS(S) (60 sec dots) -31db below the noise WOLF -40db below the noise These tests have been further confirmed by on-air tests as well. Despite the Springtime QRN, record breaking receptions in WOLF mode have been made in the past few days including Stewart's reception of the XM(GR) beacon at a distance of 1,874 miles with a 1 watt input (2 milliwatt ERP) beacon. I urge LF'ers on both sides of the pond to investigate this exciting new mode. It offers the promise of Trans-Atlantic QSO's even with current US power limits...and certainly with the type of ERP common in Europe and Canada. Please note that not only is the weak signal performance of this mode superior to QRSS but also that more information can be passed in a given time frame. Currently, WOLF uses a 15 byte message format that can be totally unknown to the receiving station (AS WAS THE CASE IN ALL TEST TRANSMISSIONS SO FAR) resulting in little doubt that an actual reception or QSO has occurred. More info can be found on the Noise Floor Web site: http://www.highnoonfilm.com/xmgr/updates/wolf.htm 73, Les Rayburn, N1LF 4919 Cox Cove Helena, AL 35080 XMGR 184.900khz 1LF 187.300khz From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17535 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 17:07:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 17:07:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 27714 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 17:06:56 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 17:06:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aKmP-00048v-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 16:57:45 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from outbound.charter.net ([24.216.159.200] helo=front004.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aKmN-00048q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 16:57:44 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [24.240.102.247] (HELO z6l3g7.highnoonfilm.com) by front004.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4b8) with ESMTP id 4431962 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Mar 2001 12:15:44 -0500 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010303105753.02bda910@highnoonfilm.com> X-Sender: les@highnoonfilm.com X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 11:15:43 -0600 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Les Rayburn" Subject: LF: WOLF Mode Records! In-reply-to: <001401c0a3fd$2ac9de60$248801d4@g4jnt> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On this side of the Atlantic, US Lowfers are experimenting with a new weak signal mode called "WOLF" developed by Stewart Nelson, KK7KA. It has proven to be far superior to QRSS(S) mode in both off air and on-air tests to date. Lyle Koehler, K0LR conducted off air tests where he mixed a random sample of LF noise with the desired signals from a variety of modes. The results were: CW (by ear) -18db below the noise QRSS (3 sec dots) -27db below the noise QRSS(S) (60 sec dots) -31db below the noise WOLF -40db below the noise These tests have been further confirmed by on-air tests as well. Despite the Springtime QRN, record breaking receptions in WOLF mode have been made in the past few days including Stewart's reception of the XM(GR) beacon at a distance of 1,874 miles with a 1 watt input (2 milliwatt ERP) beacon. I urge LF'ers on both sides of the pond to investigate this exciting new mode. It offers the promise of Trans-Atlantic QSO's even with current US power limits...and certainly with the type of ERP common in Europe and Canada. Please note that not only is the weak signal performance of this mode superior to QRSS but also that more information can be passed in a given time frame. Currently, WOLF uses a 15 byte message format that can be totally unknown to the receiving station (AS WAS THE CASE IN ALL TEST TRANSMISSIONS SO FAR) resulting in little doubt that an actual reception or QSO has occurred. More info can be found on the Noise Floor Web site: http://www.highnoonfilm.com/xmgr/updates/wolf.htm 73, Les Rayburn, N1LF 4919 Cox Cove Helena, AL 35080 XMGR 184.900khz 1LF 187.300khz From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27069 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 15:19:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 15:19:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 20974 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 15:19:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 15:19:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aJ8Y-0003Qa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 15:12:30 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aJ8V-0003QO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 15:12:29 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 14:56:55 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 14:56:53 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic: on now Message-ID: <3AA4FAB5.27348.13CD0A1@localhost> In-reply-to: <14aHmb-1kD1F2C@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > mike.dennison schrieb: > > I am transmitting tonight on 135.9230kHz 120s dashes, 60s dots - "G3XDV". > > Mike, G3XDV > Hi Mike and all, > I made a screenshot from ARGO-30dots on 135.922.0 kHz +/- at 0045 todays morning > (06.03.01). guess your signal, Mike, was the strong one with 60/120sec. but I > couldn`t read "G3XDV". > And who were the others above and below (urs) ? > > I do read in the first line: HEE EEEH > second line: MUEL > third line: DFZNM. > Uwe, dj8wx, jo43sv, ant: inv.Ve with 340m es 400m lws. Uwe, The top signal was mine. I make 120s 'dashes' from four 30s dashes on my keyer, and 60s 'dots' from two 30s dashes! So in your e-mail H = dash and E = dot, so the top line reads 'DV'. Half close your eyes and it works fine. Using the 60s setting in Argo, it looks like continuous dots and dashes. The next line - the strong one - I presume was M0BMU, and the third one is DF6NM. Thanks for the pic - very interesting. Looks like I still have some way to go to reach M0BMU's signal. 73 Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26419 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 15:19:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 15:19:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 28232 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 15:19:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 15:19:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aJ8W-0003QU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 15:12:28 +0000 Received: from mail6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aJ8U-0003QP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 15:12:27 +0000 Received: from modem-55.aragorn.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.118.55] helo=g3aqc) by mail6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14aJ8B-0007EY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 15:12:08 +0000 Message-ID: <001201c0a64f$fe8c2b00$3776883e@g3aqc> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. Transatlantic. Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:12:35 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi John and All,
Glad to hear that there is still some TA propagation. I will run DFCW tonight using 30 sec dots. Dot freq. 135,921.5 dash freq.
135.922. I am very intrested to see wether this mode gets through, and would appreciate any reports Start time 20:00utc
73s Laurie. G3AQC. 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20305 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 14:49:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 14:49:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 25252 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 14:49:55 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 14:49:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aIhO-0003CQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 14:44:26 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aIhM-0003CD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 14:44:25 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA17044 for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 15:43:59 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010306154338.2fbf9654@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 15:43:38 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic: on now In-reply-to: <14aHmb-1kD1F2C@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> References: <000901c0a5b3$863f5380$c16068d5@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hallo Uli, Das obere Signal ist Mike (DV = Ende seines Rufzeichens) Das mittlere Signal ist mir unbekant, aber es schaut recht stark aus Das untere Signal ist DF6NM 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20368 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 14:22:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 14:22:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 15764 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 14:21:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 14:21:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aIAl-0002zs-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 14:10:43 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aIAk-0002zn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 14:10:42 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.108.196]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 10:09:41 -0400 Message-ID: <3AA56411.A20302AA@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 06 Mar 2001 14:26:26 -0800 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: lf Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Last night M0BMU was visible with good signals. At times he was chopped up by local 60Hz harmonics. Did not see G3XDV. But was using 30 sec dots. Can't use version of ARGO I haveon 60 second dots Will be looking tonight agn 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18229 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 14:00:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 14:00:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 12492 invoked from network); 6 Mar 2001 14:00:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Mar 2001 14:00:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aHnP-0002qj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 13:46:35 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout03.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14aHnG-0002nb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 13:46:29 +0000 Received: from fwd07.sul.t-online.com by mailout03.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14aHmx-0005ur-00; Tue, 06 Mar 2001 14:46:07 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.227.109.86]) by fwd07.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14aHmb-1kD1F2C; Tue, 6 Mar 2001 14:45:45 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000901c0a5b3$863f5380$c16068d5@oemcomputer> Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic: on now X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------080501090500050203030306" Date: Tue, 6 Mar 2001 14:45:45 +0100 Message-ID: <14aHmb-1kD1F2C@fwd07.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080501090500050203030306 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit mike.dennison schrieb: > I am transmitting tonight on 135.9230kHz 120s dashes, 60s dots - "G3XDV". > > Mike, G3XDV > > Hi Mike and all, I made a screenshot from ARGO-30dots on 135.922.0 kHz +/- at 0045 todays morning (06.03.01). guess your signal, Mike, was the strong one with 60/120sec. but I couldn`t read "G3XDV". And who were the others above and below (urs) ? I do read in the first line: HEE EEEH second line: MUEL third line: DFZNM. 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uXk10HW9cE0EN0XB3okuZ5tZ0ejCgUD7KeuCkFsa0e5kNOql7lgtKwAAOw== --------------080501090500050203030306-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16463 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 21:33:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 21:33:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 5562 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 21:33:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 21:33:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14a2WS-0004sb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2001 21:28:04 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.138] (helo=ruthenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14a2WR-0004sW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2001 21:28:03 +0000 Received: from [62.7.4.189] (helo=default) by ruthenium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14a2Rk-000362-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2001 21:23:12 +0000 Message-ID: <000401c0a5ba$00fdb160$bd04073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots for 3/4th Mar at GB7DXM Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 21:06:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, not a lot of serious listening from me this last week. I have heard Finbar EI0CF fairly regularly, looking for continental stations.He seems to be having difficulty catching continental stations. Maybe they used to hear some of the big signals in England working him first, and they are not realising his presence now. Finbar has a DECCA TX and an aerial with 230m of top-load at about 18m high. He is quite consistently 569 at this location in daytime. It is worth noting that Finbar has QRSS available now, if you can't reach otherwise. He still reckons he needs a bit a practice at it yet! Also heard at better strength than normal, I think, was Colin G3KMP in Hastings....maybe some aerial improvements, but he was as strong if not stronger than Bill G0AKY last time I heard them. Mike, G3XDV, Tom G3OLB, Peter G3LDO, Dave G3YXM, and Laurie G3AQC have been heard from time to time pounding through. Most afternoons last week and today DJ9IE has been easily copiable on the speaker here and has been worked by a number of stations. Hopefully, John G3CCH may be heard again soon, and may also be joining us on the 'Inet' .He is considering a new 'exciter' (one with less drift than the FT-77) and may be trawling for opinions. G6NB and G8RW are regular singals also. A weeks worth of continuous strength recording of SXV (Marathon) on 135.7/8 kHz has proved that this signal seems to respond to geomagnetic disturbances in similar ways to those I have seen on CFH. The recent Coronal Mass Ejection produced some overnight plots with rapid and deep fading. It also showed the situation where the best strengths were at or around 2400z with the overall trend being continuously downward ( increasing absorption ??) for the rest of the darkness. Most normal undisturbed nights show a fairly constant signal from 2400z through to about 0500z. So, it could well be that there is some useful propagtion information to be gained. I will keep you all updated with any progress on that front. Rik has offered to host these plots later on his web site. I note a call I have not seen before on the spotting side ..G3ZES...so maybe a new station on the band soon?? Cluster spots follow:- 137.7 IK5ZPV 4-Mar-2001 1743Z cq qrss 137.5 IK5ZPV 4-Mar-2001 1744Z QRSSS CQ 589 136.7 DK6NI 4-Mar-2001 1737Z cq 136.7 F6BWO 4-Mar-2001 1548Z cq 137.7 PA0BWL 4-Mar-2001 1241Z qrss 137.7 IK5ZPV 4-Mar-2001 1100Z cq qrss 137.7 IK5ZPV 4-Mar-2001 1015Z 136.4 F6BWO 4-Mar-2001 1003Z 419 in jn58au 136.5 DJ7RD 4-Mar-2001 0951Z cq 137.7 OM2TW 4-Mar-2001 0847Z qrss 137.7 PA0BWL 3-Mar-2001 1417Z cq qrss 136.5 OK1DTN 3-Mar-2001 1404Z 136.5 OK1DTN 3-Mar-2001 1045Z cq 136.5 DJ9IE 3-Mar-2001 1045Z 137.0 OK1DTN 3-Mar-2001 1020Z strong 136.6 DJ9IE 3-Mar-2001 0915Z 136.9 G8RW 2-Mar-2001 2041Z 559 CQ 136.6 DJ9IE 2-Mar-2001 2014Z cq for test 559 136.7 DL3FDO 1-Mar-2001 1757Z 136.6 ON6ND 26-Feb-2001 1910Z ON6ND 559 DJ9IE 559 G3NYK de GB7MRS 5-Mar-2001 2029Z > Cheers de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19862 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 20:58:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 20:58:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 13088 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 20:58:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 20:58:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14a1vm-0004do-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2001 20:50:10 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [192.139.219.10] (helo=claven.fanshawec.on.ca) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14a1vk-0004dI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2001 20:50:09 +0000 Received: from [198.96.18.48] by claven.fanshawec.on.ca with ESMTP; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 15:48:39 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 15:50:03 +0000 Subject: LF: Re: QSB on LF From: "Mitch Powell" To: andre.kesteloot@ieee.org Cc: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andre: Just to add to the confusion (?) let me add the followiing, based on extensive daily monitoring of AMRAD WA2XTF/12 at Front Royal Virginia, a distance of 324 mi ( 520 kM). The WA2XTF signal appears with great rugularity before local sunrise and is solid copy with no QSB noticed through the observation period. At present ( 1545 EST) (2045Z) the signal is audible and solid trace at the same time using ARGO and Spectrogram. QSB has not been a problem, and the signal is a steady and solid reference as I experiment throughout the winter with different antenna configurations / preamps. I believe you use a 1500 foot ( ~500m ) longwire - so I can certainly guarantee I will receive your signal over a 12 hour period, well past sunset. Later ( 2100 EST) 02Z ) the signal is very weak and disappears normally until re-appearing with the sun ! For your information. 73 Mitch VE3OT ---------- >From: "Andre' Kesteloot" >To: lf-amrad , Mitch Powell VE3OT >Subject: QSB on LF >Date: Mon, Mar 5, 2001, 0:33pm > > > > Rik Strobbe wrote: > >> Have heard OK1DTN for the last 2 weeks several times with good signals, >> from 559 up to 589. But so far I always called him in vain. >> Most of the time he has a fair amount of QSB on his signal (compared to >> others at the same distance). >> I wouldn't be surprised if he was running a long wire antenna, I getting >> the impression that stations with relatively long wire antennas have more >> QSB than those with small toploads or pure verticals. >> Could it be that long wires radiate at steeper angles and thus produce more >> skywave ? >> >> 73, Rik ON7YD >> >> At 10:41 5/03/01 +0100, you wrote: >> >To All from PA0SE >> > >> >I worked OK1BTN on 25 February; sent 569, received 229. Heard G3YXM and >> >ON6ND working him as well. >> > >> >73, Dick, PA0SE > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21057 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 20:41:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 20:41:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 14463 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 20:41:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 20:41:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14a1gB-0004WY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2001 20:34:03 +0000 Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14a1gA-0004WT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2001 20:34:02 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.96.193]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010305203338.KWYE283.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 20:33:38 +0000 Message-ID: <000901c0a5b3$863f5380$c16068d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Transatlantic: on now Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 20:33:12 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I am transmitting tonight on 135.9230kHz 120s dashes, 60s dots - "G3XDV". Mike, G3XDV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19929 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 19:11:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 19:11:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 15061 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 19:11:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 19:11:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14a0ED-0003tL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2001 19:01:05 +0000 Received: from picard.skynet.be ([195.238.3.131]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14a0Dy-0003s4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2001 19:01:03 +0000 Received: from mh70i ([62.4.217.28]) by picard.skynet.be (8.11.2/8.11.2/Skynet-OUT-2.11) with SMTP id f25J0Lo27410 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 20:00:21 +0100 (MET) (envelope-from ) Message-ID: <000d01c0a5a6$d5c22ac0$1cd9043e@mh70i> From: "DE BONDT WERNER" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001a01c0a4f2$8791e3e0$906568d5@oemcomputer> <3.0.1.16.20010305121327.2dbfd9fc@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: Re: LF: Re: OK QSO Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 20:02:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello All I think Rik is right , looking abt the difference between long wire and toploaded vertical . My first qso with Ruda OK1DTN on 11-2-2001 give 3-3-9 rcvd 4-3-9 My second qso with Ruda was on 25-2-2001 give 5-7-9 rcvd 4-3-9 So my vert. was stable , and big difference on His sig. , unless He uses now an amplifier . Best 73 to All Werner ON6ND ----- Original Message ----- From: Rik Strobbe To: Sent: Monday, March 05, 2001 12:13 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: OK QSO > Have heard OK1DTN for the last 2 weeks several times with good signals, > from 559 up to 589. But so far I always called him in vain. > Most of the time he has a fair amount of QSB on his signal (compared to > others at the same distance). > I wouldn't be surprised if he was running a long wire antenna, I getting > the impression that stations with relatively long wire antennas have more > QSB than those with small toploads or pure verticals. > Could it be that long wires radiate at steeper angles and thus produce more > skywave ? > > 73, Rik ON7YD > > At 10:41 5/03/01 +0100, you wrote: > >To All from PA0SE > > > >I worked OK1BTN on 25 February; sent 569, received 229. Heard G3YXM and > >ON6ND working him as well. > > > >73, Dick, PA0SE > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15954 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 14:52:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 14:52:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 8322 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 14:52:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 14:52:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZwFp-0002Jq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2001 14:46:29 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZwFo-0002Jl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2001 14:46:28 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Mon, 05 Mar 2001 14:43:27 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 14:43:25 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Re: OK QSO Message-ID: <3AA3A60D.12543.AAC88F@localhost> In-reply-to: <29250928.983797727145.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > I am a little puzzled about the three different OK call signs that are > reported to have been worked: OK1DRT, OK1BTN, OK1DTN. Are these really three > new stations? > The only one I have heard is OK1DTN, 549 here. > 73, John, G4CNN Sorry, brain failed after a long weekend. The station was OK1DTN as reported in my first e-mail, not DRT as in my second. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29463 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 13:52:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 13:52:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 16912 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 13:52:48 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 13:52:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZvJ8-0001vB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2001 13:45:50 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZvJ5-0001v5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2001 13:45:49 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA116960 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 14:45:20 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010305144458.220714a8@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 14:44:58 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: OK QSO In-reply-to: <9912547.983797554504.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello John, that mail came through twice ... The only one I heard OK1DTN. Rik At 05:05 5/03/01 -0800, you wrote: >Hi All, >I am a little puzzled about the three different OK call signs that have been >worked: OK1DRT, OK1BTN, OK1DTN. Are there really three new stations? >The only one that I have heard is OK1DTN, 549 here. >73, John, G4CNN From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13452 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 13:18:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 13:18:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 3060 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 13:17:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 13:17:54 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZumZ-0001ef-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2001 13:12:11 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ewey-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.191] helo=ewey.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZumY-0001ea-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2001 13:12:10 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from chilly.excite.com ([199.172.153.77]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010305130847.ZXMY1577.ewey.excite.com@chilly.excite.com> for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 05:08:47 -0800 Message-ID: <29250928.983797727145.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 05:08:45 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: OK QSO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 62.253.64.5 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, I am a little puzzled about the three different OK call signs that are reported to have been worked: OK1DRT, OK1BTN, OK1DTN. Are these really three new stations? The only one I have heard is OK1DTN, 549 here. 73, John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12767 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 13:17:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 13:17:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 21828 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 13:17:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 13:17:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Zuko-0001eY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2001 13:10:22 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from kuku-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.63] helo=kuku.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Zukn-0001e6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2001 13:10:21 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from chilly.excite.com ([199.172.153.77]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010305130554.ZHVV23026.kuku.excite.com@chilly.excite.com> for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 05:05:54 -0800 Message-ID: <9912547.983797554504.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 05:05:44 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: OK QSO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 62.253.64.5 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, I am a little puzzled about the three different OK call signs that have been worked: OK1DRT, OK1BTN, OK1DTN. Are there really three new stations? The only one that I have heard is OK1DTN, 549 here. 73, John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13944 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 11:21:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 11:21:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 24948 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 11:21:13 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 11:21:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZswO-0000vY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2001 11:14:12 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZswN-0000vP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2001 11:14:11 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id MAA189226 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 12:13:48 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010305121327.2dbfd9fc@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 05 Mar 2001 12:13:27 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: OK QSO In-reply-to: <002601c0a558$888e34e0$cc9e74d5@w8k3f0> References: <001a01c0a4f2$8791e3e0$906568d5@oemcomputer> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Have heard OK1DTN for the last 2 weeks several times with good signals, from 559 up to 589. But so far I always called him in vain. Most of the time he has a fair amount of QSB on his signal (compared to others at the same distance). I wouldn't be surprised if he was running a long wire antenna, I getting the impression that stations with relatively long wire antennas have more QSB than those with small toploads or pure verticals. Could it be that long wires radiate at steeper angles and thus produce more skywave ? 73, Rik ON7YD At 10:41 5/03/01 +0100, you wrote: >To All from PA0SE > >I worked OK1BTN on 25 February; sent 569, received 229. Heard G3YXM and >ON6ND working him as well. > >73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24177 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 10:47:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 10:47:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 5158 invoked from network); 5 Mar 2001 10:47:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Mar 2001 10:47:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZsPk-0000il-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2001 10:40:28 +0000 Received: from lepidachrosite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZsPj-0000ig-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Mar 2001 10:40:27 +0000 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust204.tnt32.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.116.158.204]) by lepidachrosite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id F29CFCB1E0 for ; Mon, 5 Mar 2001 10:37:55 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <002601c0a558$888e34e0$cc9e74d5@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001a01c0a4f2$8791e3e0$906568d5@oemcomputer> Subject: LF: Re: OK QSO Date: Mon, 5 Mar 2001 10:41:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To All from PA0SE I worked OK1BTN on 25 February; sent 569, received 229. Heard G3YXM and ON6ND working him as well. 73, Dick, PA0SE ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- Van: mike.dennison Aan: Verzonden: zondag 4 maart 2001 22:29 Onderwerp: LF: OK QSO > Further to yesterday's message about hearing OK1DRT. I worked him today (Sun > 4 March) and gave him 539. He gave me 229 and it was a struggle but > eventually successful. > > Mike, G3XDV > > http://www.lf.thersgb.net > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1367 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2001 22:27:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2001 22:27:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 14683 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2001 21:37:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 4 Mar 2001 21:37:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Zg7F-0004ao-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Mar 2001 21:32:33 +0000 Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.45]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Zg7E-0004aj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Mar 2001 21:32:33 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.101.144]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010304213207.QDUS272.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Sun, 4 Mar 2001 21:32:07 +0000 Message-ID: <001a01c0a4f2$8791e3e0$906568d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: OK QSO Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 21:29:38 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Further to yesterday's message about hearing OK1DRT. I worked him today (Sun 4 March) and gave him 539. He gave me 229 and it was a struggle but eventually successful. Mike, G3XDV http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17793 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2001 21:14:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2001 21:14:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 23277 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2001 21:14:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Mar 2001 21:14:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Zfl5-0004Op-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Mar 2001 21:09:39 +0000 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Zfl4-0004Ok-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Mar 2001 21:09:39 +0000 Received: from [213.122.183.115] (helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14Zfkh-0003Mu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Mar 2001 21:09:15 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c0a4ee$dfb7a4a0$73b77ad5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: spearker qrm Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 12:27:50 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Lary I have certainly come across that in the distant past when I used to run RTTY (not using a pc). I wondered why I used to get a corrupt char if I coughed !! It turned out to be the speaker acting as a mic and putting qrm into the TU. The radios I use at the moment have audio take off before the vol control so I dont get problems like that. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12563 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2001 20:41:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2001 20:41:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 12015 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2001 20:41:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Mar 2001 20:41:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZfFH-0004BQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Mar 2001 20:36:47 +0000 Received: from mail3.dada.it ([195.110.96.70] helo=mail.dada.it) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZfFG-0004BI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Mar 2001 20:36:46 +0000 Received: (qmail 17634 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2001 20:35:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cestag) (195.110.102.205) by mail.dada.it with SMTP; 4 Mar 2001 20:35:50 -0000 Message-ID: <001301c0a4ea$a0799900$cd666ec3@cestag> From: "cesare tagliabue" To: "LF group" Subject: LF: new station Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 21:35:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
        Hi all
        This afternoon Sun 4 March, around 14.15 UTC I've heard the new OK station OK1DTN calling CQ, the signal was very strong, 579 here in Florence; this station seems to be well equipped.
  73  Cesare
 
Cesare Tagliabue   I 5 TGC
WW-Loc  JN53PS
e-mail: cestag@dada.it
url: http://www.dadacasa.com/i5tgc
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3150 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2001 20:21:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2001 20:21:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 17237 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2001 20:21:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Mar 2001 20:21:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZevB-000453-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Mar 2001 20:16:01 +0000 Received: from amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.45]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Zev8-00044y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Mar 2001 20:16:00 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-3-51.easynet.co.uk [195.40.202.51]) by amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 096A61782F for ; Sun, 4 Mar 2001 20:15:37 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000a01c0a4e8$7ddbd220$33ca28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20010228102047.2cdfe722@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <14YH76-07vfRgC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> <005001c0a43c$479230d0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> Subject: LF: Re: 136kHz transmissions Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 20:19:18 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Larry said > I have been having a bit of a problem receiving LF signals with ARGO, I am > not able to see the signals due to interference. I have been looking for > G3LDO with 60 seconds dits and nil just more and more interference. One of the reasons that have probably made it difficult to receive my transmissions is that I haven't been transmitting. I put out an e-mail message on the 18th Feb that I would be transmitting on the morning of the 19th and although I did transmit there was no response of any sort. The cost of power over here in the UK is not cheap, and to run a transmitter through the night takes around 6 to 8kW/hrs. Now, while the government has granted us pensioners an extra £200 for heating costs for the winter months, we still have to be careful if we are not to run up large energy bills. I am quite happy to make transmissions over limited periods of time, where they have the chance of being more effective. If there is interest I will transmit this week (Monday to Friday) from 0530 to 0630 on 135.920 using a dot period that allows the call to be sent within the hour. Anyone interested? Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 520 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2001 18:09:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2001 18:09:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 763 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2001 18:08:49 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 4 Mar 2001 18:08:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Zcq0-0003Du-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Mar 2001 18:02:32 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from public2.thorcom.com ([212.172.148.20] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Zcpz-0003Dp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Mar 2001 18:02:31 +0000 Received: from fm215.facility.pipex.com ([194.131.104.225]) by public2.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 14Zblo-0003hQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Mar 2001 16:54:08 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (135.235.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.235.135]) by fm215.facility.pipex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA24156 for ; Sun, 4 Mar 2001 17:49:52 GMT Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010304175030.00a84070@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 17:52:10 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: Re: LF: corrections In-reply-to: <3AA1455E.224CEB80@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 19:26 03/03/01 Saturday, G3KEV wrote: >There seems to be so many mistakes in the latest COMIC. Who did the >proof reading before publication? Can I get a hardback of the >corrections? There is no excuse for this amateurish edition. >I bought the original version and could not see the CARTOONS, they were >BLACKED out. >I still have it as proof if anyone would like to try and identify what >noddy is trying to illustrate. >The cover was scuffed when I got it, the internal pages were photo >copied. Did I get a second hand copy? During my time at College this >sort of presentation would have been a FAILURE. I suppose today with >only 30% required for a degree pass at University this is accepatable >to some!!!!!! Why not try writing one yourself then? You seem to know it all. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27141 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2001 17:08:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2001 17:08:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 13209 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2001 17:08:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 4 Mar 2001 17:08:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Zbsg-0002qh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Mar 2001 17:01:14 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Zbsf-0002qc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Mar 2001 17:01:13 +0000 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14ZbsM-0006zD-0A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 4 Mar 2001 17:00:54 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AA274C5.B38D6FB0@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 04 Mar 2001 17:00:53 +0000 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: New stations References: <003b01c0a40e$65144ae0$296468d5@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike G3XDV wrote: > This morning, Sat 3 March, I heard OK1DTN whose CW was 439. > He worked SM6PXJ exchanging S3 reports. He did not reply to my calls. > > Also worked ON7ZO for the first time - sent 569, received 579. I also worked ON7ZO for the first time today (Sunday). I called him immediately after he signed with Bill G0AKY. I sent 559, received 419, using my 12 m vertical. A flashover in the variometer interrupted the QSO for a few minutes, but, after I had brushed away the carbon deposits, we completed OK. Nice to hear another new station on the band. Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22593 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2001 07:53:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2001 07:53:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 8276 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2001 07:53:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Mar 2001 07:53:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZTEm-00084g-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Mar 2001 07:47:28 +0000 Received: from mail3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZTEl-00084b-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Mar 2001 07:47:27 +0000 Received: from modem-100.aranel.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.119.100] helo=lvm) by mail3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14ZTET-0007VQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Mar 2001 07:47:09 +0000 Message-ID: <000101c0a47f$df664fc0$6477883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: Re. QRS Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 07:50:32 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, Hava a look at Riks latest DFCW with half element spacing.Now running on135.922 use Argo on 10sec dots.I will run it for 2 hours. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3934 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2001 00:44:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Mar 2001 00:44:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 21732 invoked from network); 4 Mar 2001 00:44:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 4 Mar 2001 00:44:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZMYq-0005am-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Mar 2001 00:39:44 +0000 Received: from mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZMYp-0005ah-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Mar 2001 00:39:44 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.178.151]) by mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010304003923.DWCT7107089.mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Sun, 4 Mar 2001 13:39:23 +1300 Message-ID: <007901c0a444$81affe20$97b21bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20010228102047.2cdfe722@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <14YH76-07vfRgC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> <005001c0a43c$479230d0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> Subject: LF: Re: Interference to ARGO, a surprise Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 13:36:48 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Larry, You have found an oddball way of getting unwanted local audio. > I have been having a bit of a problem receiving LF signals with ARGO, I am > not able to see the signals due to interference. I have been looking for > G3LDO with 60 seconds dits and nil just more and more interference. > > Today I did a methodical series of test and I have found that the speaker I > have been clip leading into the circuit so I can listen to what is going on, > straight noise of course, is in fact reacting to the large blowers I have > running in my remote site. The Blowers are the source of interference that > has been driving me almost nuts looking for the source. > > Have any of the others had local speakers become a visible component in > their receivning systems? Also beware of laptops that have onboard microphones. I was mystified as to how the Argo screen was apparently working when the audio lead was unplugged, but it was an audio (sound wave) path via the microphone. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17700 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2001 23:52:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Mar 2001 23:52:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 22650 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2001 23:52:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 3 Mar 2001 23:52:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZLjx-0005BC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Mar 2001 23:47:09 +0000 Received: from tomts8.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.52] helo=tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZLjw-0005B4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Mar 2001 23:47:09 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.209.138.121]) by tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010303234613.QWFE741.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 18:46:13 -0500 Message-ID: <005001c0a43c$479230d0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20010228102047.2cdfe722@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <14YH76-07vfRgC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> Subject: LF: Interference to ARGO, a surprise Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 18:47:11 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings All: I have been having a bit of a problem receiving LF signals with ARGO, I am not able to see the signals due to interference. I have been looking for G3LDO with 60 seconds dits and nil just more and more interference. Today I did a methodical series of test and I have found that the speaker I have been clip leading into the circuit so I can listen to what is going on, straight noise of course, is in fact reacting to the large blowers I have running in my remote site. The Blowers are the source of interference that has been driving me almost nuts looking for the source. Have any of the others had local speakers become a visible component in their receivning systems? Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4945 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2001 20:13:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 3 Mar 2001 20:13:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 24891 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2001 20:13:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Mar 2001 20:13:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZIKh-0003zo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Mar 2001 20:08:51 +0000 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZIKf-0003zh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Mar 2001 20:08:50 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.178.102]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010303200914.JXF2261674.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Sun, 4 Mar 2001 09:09:14 +1300 Message-ID: <005901c0a41e$9759e900$66b21bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001401c0a3fd$2ac9de60$248801d4@g4jnt> Subject: LF: Re: Re: test Date: Sun, 4 Mar 2001 09:10:11 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > No messages from this reflector - is it working properly, or in quarantine > for Foot and Mouth :-( > Andy 'JNT Andy, Just as a precaution, please run your files through a disinfectant bath before forwarding them to the reflector :-) 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7686 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2001 19:57:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Mar 2001 19:57:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 336 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2001 19:57:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 3 Mar 2001 19:57:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZI5g-0003si-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Mar 2001 19:53:20 +0000 Received: from smtp.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.193.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZI5f-0003sd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Mar 2001 19:53:19 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from default (p1363.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.170.88]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA01143 for ; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 20:52:59 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <200103031952.UAA01143@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 20:53:6 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: Re: LF: Re: test X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 3/3/01 10:48:00, you wrote: > >What suffering withdrawal symptoms? hi (:-) >John, G4CNN John. Not really ;-) It has been quiet for days so i decided to test to see if there was still a server on the other side. No Content (subject) came from the split server idea so we don't have to check all mail (i read 'em all) The lack of activity comes in handy so i can celebrate the new job, i finally managed to escape from the "black hole".. Perhaps more to do tomorrow on 136, ready for 73 aswell. 73 de Ko, NL9222. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11949 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2001 19:53:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Mar 2001 19:53:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 13468 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2001 19:53:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Mar 2001 19:53:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZI1E-0003s5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Mar 2001 19:48:44 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [194.200.20.13] (helo=mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZI1D-0003s0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Mar 2001 19:48:43 +0000 Received: from userap58.netscapeonline.co.uk ([62.125.134.20] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 14ZHwL-00009l-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Mar 2001 19:43:42 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3AA1455E.224CEB80@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 03 Mar 2001 19:26:22 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: corrections Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: There seems to be so many mistakes in the latest COMIC. Who did the proof reading before publication? Can I get a hardback of the corrections? There is no excuse for this amateurish edition. I bought the original version and could not see the CARTOONS, they were BLACKED out. I still have it as proof if anyone would like to try and identify what noddy is trying to illustrate. The cover was scuffed when I got it, the internal pages were photo copied. Did I get a second hand copy? During my time at College this sort of presentation would have been a FAILURE. I suppose today with only 30% required for a degree pass at University this is accepatable to some!!!!!! G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24487 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2001 18:56:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Mar 2001 18:56:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 7888 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2001 18:56:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Mar 2001 18:56:05 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZH6G-0003Xj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Mar 2001 18:49:52 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fortune-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.203] helo=fortune.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZH6E-0003Xd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Mar 2001 18:49:51 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from zero.excite.com ([199.172.152.241]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010303184815.PXJX1036.fortune.excite.com@zero.excite.com> for ; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 10:48:15 -0800 Message-ID: <12125191.983645295879.JavaMail.imail@zero.excite.com> Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 10:48:07 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: test MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 213.120.56.53 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: What suffering withdrawal symptoms? hi (:-) John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28030 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2001 18:26:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Mar 2001 18:26:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 24562 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2001 18:25:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 3 Mar 2001 18:25:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZGcs-0003Nu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Mar 2001 18:19:30 +0000 Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.43]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZGco-0003Np-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Mar 2001 18:19:26 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.100.41]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010303181908.ZWMD283.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 18:19:08 +0000 Message-ID: <003b01c0a40e$65144ae0$296468d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: New stations Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 18:18:40 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This morning, Sat 3 March, I heard OK1DTN whose CW was 439. He worked SM6PXJ exchanging S3 reports. He did not reply to my calls. Also worked ON7ZO for the first time - sent 569, received 579. Mike, G3XDV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29763 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2001 17:13:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Mar 2001 17:13:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 6765 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2001 17:13:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 3 Mar 2001 17:13:34 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZFUt-0002vF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Mar 2001 17:07:11 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.60]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZFUs-0002vA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Mar 2001 17:07:10 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from 66-44-92-107.s615.tnt6.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.92.107] helo=nan-and-sandy) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.16 #5) id 14ZFUZ-0007gt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Mar 2001 12:06:51 -0500 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:12:59 -0500 Message-ID: <01C0A3DB.49DD9E80.esanders@erols.com> From: "Nan and Sandy Sanders" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re: test Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:11:35 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: What do LF waves and viruses have in common ? I wonder if foot and Mouth is affected the same way? http://www.nationalpost.com/home/story.html?f=/stories/20010302/489917.html Sandy WB5MMB ---------- From: Andrew Talbot[SMTP:G4JNT@thersgb.net] Reply To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Saturday, March 03, 2001 11:15 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: test No messages from this reflector - is it working properly, or in quarantine for Foot and Mouth :-( Andy 'JNT -----Original Message----- From: Ko Versteeg To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 03 March 2001 11:52 Subject: LF: test [no content] > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16003 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2001 16:29:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Mar 2001 16:29:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 8703 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2001 16:29:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Mar 2001 16:29:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZEnl-0002jU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Mar 2001 16:22:37 +0000 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZEnl-0002jP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Mar 2001 16:22:37 +0000 Received: from [212.1.136.36] (helo=g4jnt) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14ZEW6-0006l8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Mar 2001 16:04:23 +0000 Message-ID: <001401c0a3fd$2ac9de60$248801d4@g4jnt> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: test Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 16:15:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: No messages from this reflector - is it working properly, or in quarantine for Foot and Mouth :-( Andy 'JNT -----Original Message----- From: Ko Versteeg To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 03 March 2001 11:52 Subject: LF: test [no content] > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19401 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2001 11:44:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Mar 2001 11:44:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 7599 invoked from network); 3 Mar 2001 11:44:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Mar 2001 11:44:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZAOh-0001A7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Mar 2001 11:40:27 +0000 Received: from smtp.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.193.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14ZAOg-0001A2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Mar 2001 11:40:27 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from default (p213.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.200.141]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA19149 for ; Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:40:06 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <200103031140.MAA19149@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Sat, 3 Mar 2001 12:40:11 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: test [no content] X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17406 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2001 22:47:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Mar 2001 22:47:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 28068 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2001 22:47:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Mar 2001 22:47:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Ybem-0006pJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Mar 2001 22:34:44 +0000 Received: from cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Ybel-0006pE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Mar 2001 22:34:43 +0000 Received: from modem-211.tennessee.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.93.211] helo=lvm) by cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14YbeS-0008CN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Mar 2001 22:34:25 +0000 Message-ID: <000501c0a2a0$524514e0$d35d893e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: Re. Beacon Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 22:37:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I am running the beacon tonight as usual (135.922 kHz ) but Dexter reports heavy QRN still.Perhaps we have run out of the low noise conditions for this winter! I will await further information and advise when I am going to Transmit again. 73s to all. Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 350 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2001 00:46:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 1 Mar 2001 00:46:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 14432 invoked from network); 1 Mar 2001 00:46:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Mar 2001 00:46:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14YH7W-00084I-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Mar 2001 00:39:02 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout00.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14YH7U-00084D-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Mar 2001 00:39:00 +0000 Received: from fwd04.sul.t-online.com by mailout00.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14YH7C-0003ZB-04; Thu, 01 Mar 2001 01:38:42 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (087321565-0001@[217.2.64.14]) by fwd04.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14YH76-07vfRgC; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 01:38:36 +0100 From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20010228102047.2cdfe722@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: Re: LF: RE: Icom IC-746 on LF X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 01:38:36 +0100 Message-ID: <14YH76-07vfRgC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all, concerning the beginning of LF amateur operation in Germany I must confess that a very detailed description of the equipment used has never been published but I think that the contribution below by ON7YD should be corrected: Just before the Ham Radio Fair at the end of June 1997 at Friedrichshafen our administration had isssued two provisional licences for DA0LF (Peter Bobek, DJ8WL) and DA0VLF (Dr. Hartmut Buettig, DL1VDL, DARC HF manager) for a transmitter power of 100 watts (now we still have 20 watts nominal only). Time for preparations were very short, nobody could even think of a 100 watts PA. For DA0LF Peter Bobek employed his Hagenuk receiver and exciter with an output of 200 mW to a random wire. For DA0VLF "Hardy" Buettig had prepared a 20 watts PA and a loop aerial, but could not contribute anything for receive and for driving his PA. Therefore he was very glad that I could supply him with a passive LF converter to 14 MHz (then used with a TS-50 behind, showing 14.136.6 on the dial) and a crystal mixer exciter which produced just 3 watts output when combinded with Hardy's PA. Coupling between the random wire and the LF loop even within the same exhibition hall was rather poor, but a few meters of wire connected to the loop did not detune it but improved reception on both sides considerably. RST had been about 579. At the stand of the DARC HF referate a lot of visitors took the chance to have a first qso on LF and to receive a special QSL card. I myself could not travel to Friedrichshaven that year, because my third son had decided to marry just on Friday of that weekend! In another cq-DL article (5/1998) Peter Bobek reported that to increase his LF power to 50 watts for his long-range qrss tests he had used a push-pull power amplifier with two MRF454 employing "completely inadequate cores for LF". This may have been the PA needing more cooling for the output transformer than for the transistors. 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB Rik Strobbe schrieb: > Hello group, > > Most HF-rigs have a "push-pull" PA that has an input and output > transformer. It are most likely these transformers that determine the lower > frequency limit. > I believe to have read an article in CQ-DL about the first 136kHz > transmissions between DA0LF and DA0VLF in Friedrichshafen (1997 ?). One of > the stations used a 100W HF push-pull PA to get 20W on 136kHz and they > needed a fan, not to cool the transistor but to cool the output > transformer. So even if you get your HF rig running on 136kHz I suggest to > limit the output to a few Watt in order to avoid a 'meltdown' of the output > transformer. > > 73, Rik ON7YD > > > At 08:43 28/02/01 -0000, you wrote: > >I don't know those particular mods, but my IC746 was supplied (quite > >intentionally) with all band transmit capability. However, the > >transmitter is still inhibited when trying to operate below 1.5MHz as > >the PA cannot cope below this frequency. Presumably the MARS mods you > >mention only require transmission at a few other HF freqs so the 100kHz > >lower limit could be a misunderstanding / typo on the authors part. > > > >The firm supplying it told me in no uncertain terms that the guarantee > >was only valid for transmission in the amateur bands, but Icom confirmed > >the rig is quite happy transmitting over the whole HF spectrum, but > >trouble would come if trying to transmit in the 30 - 45MHz region as it > >would still be trying to use the 30MHz low pass output filter. Also VHF > >transmission much outside 140-150MHz would cause problems, again due to > >the output filter. > > > >Andy > > > > > >> -----Original Message----- > >> From: Jonathan Jesse [mailto:w1jhj@netzero.net] > >> Sent: 2001-02-27 18:43 > >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; lowfer@qth.net > >> Subject: LF: Icom IC-746 on LF > >> > >> > >> > >> While surfing around the "net" for specifications on Icom's > >> IC-746 HF/VHF > >> transceiver, I found a modification to open the transmit > >> capabilities (so > >> called MARS/CAP mod). Reading on, I found that the author > >> stated that this > >> mod will open the transmit from 100khz to 60mhg. 100khz? > >> Has anyone tried > >> and or confirmed this? > >> > >> Thanks, > >> Jon W1JHJ > >> Jon > >> W1JHJ > >> Plymouth, MA > >> FN41qw > >> http://geocities.com/ws1k.rm > >> > >> Shop online without a credit card > >> http://www.rocketcash.com > >> RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary > >> > > > > > >-- > >The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence > >is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). > >For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, > >or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is > >prohibited and may be unlawful. > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23512 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 20:19:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 20:19:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 19440 invoked from network); 23 Mar 2001 19:25:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 23 Mar 2001 19:25:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gX4g-000026-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 19:18:14 +0000 Received: from ligarius-fe0.ultra.net ([146.115.8.189]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14gX4f-000021-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 19:18:13 +0000 Received: from comrex (209-122-233-183.s1993.apx2.sbo.ma.dialup.rcn.com [209.122.233.183]) by ligarius-fe0.ultra.net (8.8.8/ult/n26500/mtc.v2) with SMTP id OAA10878; Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:16:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <002001c0b3ce$b55734c0$09dc9384@ma.ultranet.com> From: "John Andrews" To: "James Moritz" Cc: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <16473.200103231813@gemini> Subject: LF: Re: [Lowfer] Wolf BPSK from the UK Date: Fri, 23 Mar 2001 14:22:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jim, I will be trying again tonight, at least from 0100 to 0230. Attempted on Tuesday and Wednesday, but nothing was heard/deciphered. On both evenings, there was no sign of any other transatlantic activity, either. My local conditions were fairly quiet, with the strong carrier on 137 kHz having departed, at least temporarily. John Andrews, W1TAG