From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24899 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 21:12:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 21:12:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 8902 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 21:11:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 21:11:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14YDmx-0006iO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 21:05:35 +0000 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14YDmw-0006iG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 21:05:34 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.178.20]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010228202859.XEOE2261674.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Thu, 1 Mar 2001 09:28:59 +1300 Message-ID: <006e01c0a1c5$db62fa20$65b51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D75EE@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> Subject: LF: Re: RE: Icom IC-746 on LF Date: Thu, 1 Mar 2001 08:55:15 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andy, > I don't know those particular mods, but my IC746 was supplied (quite > intentionally) with all band transmit capability. However, the > transmitter is still inhibited when trying to operate below 1.5MHz as > the PA cannot cope below this frequency. Presumably the MARS mods you > mention only require transmission at a few other HF freqs so the 100kHz > lower limit could be a misunderstanding / typo on the authors part. About 10 years ago I started using an Icom IC-735 as an LF exciter. "Opening up" for all band transmit involves clipping one or two diode leads if I recall correctly, but different rigs have different inhibit schemes. The RF PA has basically nil response at LF, so there is no harm done by "transmitting on LF". Some rigs allow turning off the PA bias when used for transverter applications, which is a cleaner way of doing it (no quiescent dissipation going on). One way to extract LF drive is to make a "coupler" at the transmit mixer (which is genuinely broadband). I used an inductor input low pass filter for LF (which theoretically goes high Z input impedance above cutoff), and confirm that the microchoke input inductor had no problem with suckout at an amateur HF band. I fed the LF transmit signal out the transverter connector. I do not know the IC-746 details, but there may even be opportunity to install a changeover relay somewhere following the transmit mixer, if there is a coax lead going to a separate PA module. 73, Bob From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28153 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 21:07:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 21:07:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 107 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 21:07:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 21:07:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14YDZq-0006fG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 20:52:02 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14YDZo-0006fA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 20:52:01 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.6.87]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 16:50:47 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A9DD8F8.E17597B9@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 21:07:07 -0800 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: SXV plots.....1500z dip References: <000701c09ffb$1720b100$a6bf01d5@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Alan My experiments with skywave propagation from years ago was made with a Loran -C receiver. This is very usefull because Loran-C is a pulsed system. Because the pulses are long ( on the order of 200 microseconds ) and ground waves and skywaves or first hop and second hop skywaves tend to overlap. You can still glean valuable information about skywaves. I observed signals at a range of say 800miles.In the daytime the groundwave would be just barely visible. The first hop skywave would have a delay of about 35 microsec, and would be typically be 6 db or so stronger. As night approached , the skywave amplitude would double or triple. Then its delay would increase to around 60 microseconds. Then the amplitude would triple again Note if the daytime delay were 35 microseconds the two pulses would subtract each other . If the delay were 40 microsec the pulses would add. The observed signal is further complicated because the pulses have a rise time of 6 cycles of the carrier freq or 60 microsec. Anyhow, the slow change in delay of the first and second hop skywaves causes the pulses to add up with each other and subtract from each other 4 or 5 times as the delay gradually increases The same thing will also happen with cw signals. On occaision one could observe a ground wave signal followed by a skywave of 500 microseconds delay . The transmitter range would be on the order of 400 miles. From this one can calculate the height of the reflecting layer. For people seriously interested in getting an understanding of LF propagation I would highly recommend the use of Loran-c receiver an oscilloscope and a scope camera. Taking data during a solar eclipse can be very interesting 73 de John VE1ZJ Alan Melia wrote: > Hi David, well no, its too early for sundown effects. The twilight shadow > reaches the west coast of Greece about 1625z with full darkness about 1650z. > (old GeoClock) That was the puzzling thing. There is a slight 'wriggle' in > the plot at dusk with two slight dips about an hour apart but nothing as > consistent and deep as the 1550z dip. Most odd. > > Cheers de Alan G3NYK > Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6329 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 13:38:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 13:38:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 3320 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 13:38:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 13:38:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Y6iB-0004E7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 13:32:11 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Y6ho-0004Dp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 13:31:49 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 13:24:05 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 13:24:02 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Aerial (not antenna) map Message-ID: <3A9CFBF2.8299.E52467@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Take a look at http://www1.getmapping.com/sorry.cfm?osnorth=214400.0&oseast=523235.47 &CFID=750336&CFTOKEN=32342838 to see an aerial view of my location, and about a quarter of the trees that help keep my signal down. My QTH is three-quarters of the way up the map, about half-way across. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24709 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 11:16:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 11:16:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 29060 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 11:16:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 11:16:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Y4V2-0003QN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 11:10:28 +0000 Received: from amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.45]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Y4V1-0003QI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 11:10:27 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-1-243.easynet.co.uk [195.40.206.243]) by amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id CBF251808F for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 11:00:02 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000901c0a176$296a0240$f3ce28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: LF Book Addendum Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 11:03:09 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: An item has been added to the LF Book Addendum regarding a formula for designing a loading coil for maximum Q. Interestingly, the results agree roughly with the experimental work done by Bill Bowers, described in the LF book. Some readers noted that, on some browsers, the text was rather small and difficult to read. I have modified all the pages of the site (http://web.ukonline.co.uk/g3ldo) to a larger fort size. I will try to do something about a couple of the diagrams. Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13397 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 11:06:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 11:06:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 2724 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 11:06:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 11:06:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Y4Kd-0003Nb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:59:43 +0000 Received: from rubellite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Y4KR-0003NV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:59:33 +0000 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust37.tnt11.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.116.116.37]) by rubellite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id C6231294D; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:58:44 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000a01c0a16d$8f0a54a0$257474d5@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Cc: "Ger van Went, PA0GER" , "Ton Sprenger, PA3AVV" , "Klaas Robers, PA0KLS" , "Mike Perry, PA7XG" , "Hans Peltzer, PA0HRP" , "Jan Ottens, PA0SSB" , "Aad Nijveld, PA0XAB" , "Jaap Kroon, PA0IF" , "Cees Jan Keessen" , "Roger Jennison, G2AJV" , "Gerrit Jan Huijsman, PA0GJH" , "Arend Harteveld, PA1ARE" , "Jan Harte, PA0HRT" , "Koos Fockens, PA0KDF" , "Helmich de Vries" , "Olof Bosma" Subject: LF: Antenna simulation programs Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:59:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
To All from  PA0SE
 
Interesting material (simulation programs) for antenna freaks can be found at
 
 
It is called the "Unofficial NEC Archive".
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27376 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 09:26:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 09:26:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 399 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 09:26:48 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 09:26:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Y2nU-0002pl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:21:24 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Y2nQ-0002pg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:21:20 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA69156 for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:21:02 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010228102047.2cdfe722@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 10:20:47 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: RE: Icom IC-746 on LF In-reply-to: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D75EE@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov .uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello group, Most HF-rigs have a "push-pull" PA that has an input and output transformer. It are most likely these transformers that determine the lower frequency limit. I believe to have read an article in CQ-DL about the first 136kHz transmissions between DA0LF and DA0VLF in Friedrichshafen (1997 ?). One of the stations used a 100W HF push-pull PA to get 20W on 136kHz and they needed a fan, not to cool the transistor but to cool the output transformer. So even if you get your HF rig running on 136kHz I suggest to limit the output to a few Watt in order to avoid a 'meltdown' of the output transformer. 73, Rik ON7YD At 08:43 28/02/01 -0000, you wrote: >I don't know those particular mods, but my IC746 was supplied (quite >intentionally) with all band transmit capability. However, the >transmitter is still inhibited when trying to operate below 1.5MHz as >the PA cannot cope below this frequency. Presumably the MARS mods you >mention only require transmission at a few other HF freqs so the 100kHz >lower limit could be a misunderstanding / typo on the authors part. > >The firm supplying it told me in no uncertain terms that the guarantee >was only valid for transmission in the amateur bands, but Icom confirmed >the rig is quite happy transmitting over the whole HF spectrum, but >trouble would come if trying to transmit in the 30 - 45MHz region as it >would still be trying to use the 30MHz low pass output filter. Also VHF >transmission much outside 140-150MHz would cause problems, again due to >the output filter. > >Andy > > >> -----Original Message----- >> From: Jonathan Jesse [mailto:w1jhj@netzero.net] >> Sent: 2001-02-27 18:43 >> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; lowfer@qth.net >> Subject: LF: Icom IC-746 on LF >> >> >> >> While surfing around the "net" for specifications on Icom's >> IC-746 HF/VHF >> transceiver, I found a modification to open the transmit >> capabilities (so >> called MARS/CAP mod). Reading on, I found that the author >> stated that this >> mod will open the transmit from 100khz to 60mhg. 100khz? >> Has anyone tried >> and or confirmed this? >> >> Thanks, >> Jon W1JHJ >> Jon >> W1JHJ >> Plymouth, MA >> FN41qw >> http://geocities.com/ws1k.rm >> >> Shop online without a credit card >> http://www.rocketcash.com >> RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary >> > > >-- >The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence >is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). >For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, >or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is >prohibited and may be unlawful. > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28986 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 09:03:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 09:03:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 23957 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 09:03:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 09:03:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Y2Qp-0002ei-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 08:57:59 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [194.200.20.13] (helo=mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Y2Qo-0002ed-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 08:57:59 +0000 Received: from useran66.netscapeonline.co.uk ([62.125.133.84] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 14Y2M2-0003aX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 08:53:03 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A9CBD45.28F1F701@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 08:56:37 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: keps Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello All Thanks to everyone that sent me the address for KEPS via this list and also direct emails. de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 951 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 08:50:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 08:50:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 23403 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 08:50:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 08:50:18 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Y2Dj-0002d4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 08:44:27 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Y2Df-0002cz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 08:44:23 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id IAA05421; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 08:46:17 GMT Received: (qmail 5581 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 09:36:09 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 09:36:09 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id JAA23662; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 09:24:36 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma023610; Wed, 28 Feb 01 09:24:03 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-3.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 08:48:12 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-3.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 08:43:10 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D75EE@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Icom IC-746 on LF Date: Wed, 28 Feb 2001 08:43:17 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I don't know those particular mods, but my IC746 was supplied (quite intentionally) with all band transmit capability. However, the transmitter is still inhibited when trying to operate below 1.5MHz as the PA cannot cope below this frequency. Presumably the MARS mods you mention only require transmission at a few other HF freqs so the 100kHz lower limit could be a misunderstanding / typo on the authors part. The firm supplying it told me in no uncertain terms that the guarantee was only valid for transmission in the amateur bands, but Icom confirmed the rig is quite happy transmitting over the whole HF spectrum, but trouble would come if trying to transmit in the 30 - 45MHz region as it would still be trying to use the 30MHz low pass output filter. Also VHF transmission much outside 140-150MHz would cause problems, again due to the output filter. Andy > -----Original Message----- > From: Jonathan Jesse [mailto:w1jhj@netzero.net] > Sent: 2001-02-27 18:43 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; lowfer@qth.net > Subject: LF: Icom IC-746 on LF > > > > While surfing around the "net" for specifications on Icom's > IC-746 HF/VHF > transceiver, I found a modification to open the transmit > capabilities (so > called MARS/CAP mod). Reading on, I found that the author > stated that this > mod will open the transmit from 100khz to 60mhg. 100khz? > Has anyone tried > and or confirmed this? > > Thanks, > Jon W1JHJ > Jon > W1JHJ > Plymouth, MA > FN41qw > http://geocities.com/ws1k.rm > > Shop online without a credit card > http://www.rocketcash.com > RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3130 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 00:18:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 00:18:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 21167 invoked from network); 28 Feb 2001 00:18:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 28 Feb 2001 00:18:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XuE8-00003T-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 00:12:20 +0000 Received: from tomts7.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.40] helo=tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XuE7-00003L-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 28 Feb 2001 00:12:19 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.208.193.97]) by tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010228001126.XNTE757.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 19:11:26 -0500 Message-ID: <008801c0a11a$a048ef90$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000701c0a0fc$aa4dc4c0$e06b68d5@oemcomputer> Subject: LF: Re: Transatlantic: Sending 60s dots Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 19:03:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I hope your going all night, I will be looking in the ARGO files hi.. ----- Original Message ----- From: "mike.dennison" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 27, 2001 03:34 Subject: LF: Transatlantic: Sending 60s dots > I am now sending 'XDV' using 60s dots and 120s dashes on 135.9230kHz. > > Mike, G3XDV > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25431 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 20:41:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 20:41:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 359 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 20:41:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 20:41:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Xqpo-0007C7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 20:35:00 +0000 Received: from mta02-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.42]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Xqpn-0007C2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 20:34:59 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.107.224]) by mta02-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010227203437.CINC290.mta02-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 20:34:37 +0000 Message-ID: <000701c0a0fc$aa4dc4c0$e06b68d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Transatlantic: Sending 60s dots Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 20:34:14 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I am now sending 'XDV' using 60s dots and 120s dashes on 135.9230kHz. Mike, G3XDV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29591 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 18:59:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 18:59:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 10641 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 18:59:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 18:59:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XpFd-0006bD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 18:53:33 +0000 Received: from ins21.netins.net ([167.142.225.21] helo=smtp-out.netins.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XpFc-0006b7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 18:53:32 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from netins.net (desm-32-118.dsl.netins.net [167.142.32.118]) by smtp-out.netins.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA04308; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 12:53:13 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3A9BF798.5C0119D@netins.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 12:53:12 -0600 From: "Dr. Tom Gruis" Organization: www.gruis.org X-Sender: "Dr. Tom Gruis" <@smtp.netins.net> (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: lowfer@qth.net Subject: Re: LF: Icom IC-746 on LF References: <3.0.3.32.20010227134257.01cf2408@pop.netzero.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I should have stated that I know this isn't legal here in the US - yet - but hope still exists! Doc. Jonathan Jesse wrote: > > While surfing around the "net" for specifications on Icom's IC-746 HF/VHF > transceiver, I found a modification to open the transmit capabilities (so > called MARS/CAP mod). Reading on, I found that the author stated that this > mod will open the transmit from 100khz to 60mhg. 100khz? Has anyone tried > and or confirmed this? > > Thanks, > Jon W1JHJ > Jon > W1JHJ > Plymouth, MA > FN41qw > http://geocities.com/ws1k.rm > > Shop online without a credit card > http://www.rocketcash.com > RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28946 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 18:59:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 18:59:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 8299 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 18:58:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 18:58:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XpEi-0006az-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 18:52:36 +0000 Received: from ins21.netins.net ([167.142.225.21] helo=smtp-out.netins.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XpEg-0006aq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 18:52:34 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from netins.net (desm-32-118.dsl.netins.net [167.142.32.118]) by smtp-out.netins.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA23337; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 12:52:11 -0600 (CST) Message-ID: <3A9BF75A.34B11CD3@netins.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 12:52:10 -0600 From: "Dr. Tom Gruis" Organization: www.gruis.org X-Sender: "Dr. Tom Gruis" <@smtp.netins.net> (Unverified) X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-gatewaynet (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: lowfer@qth.net Subject: Re: LF: Icom IC-746 on LF References: <3.0.3.32.20010227134257.01cf2408@pop.netzero.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: IF this proves to be true - I'd welcome a guide to doing the same to a 718! Doc. Jonathan Jesse wrote: > > While surfing around the "net" for specifications on Icom's IC-746 HF/VHF > transceiver, I found a modification to open the transmit capabilities (so > called MARS/CAP mod). Reading on, I found that the author stated that this > mod will open the transmit from 100khz to 60mhg. 100khz? Has anyone tried > and or confirmed this? > > Thanks, > Jon W1JHJ > Jon > W1JHJ > Plymouth, MA > FN41qw > http://geocities.com/ws1k.rm > > Shop online without a credit card > http://www.rocketcash.com > RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16008 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 18:52:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 18:52:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 23212 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 18:52:04 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 18:52:04 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Xp7o-0006ZZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 18:45:28 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail8.wlv.netzero.net ([209.247.163.58]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Xp7k-0006ZU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 18:45:24 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 22566 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 18:43:28 -0000 Received: from dialup-63.214.72.39.boston1.level3.net (HELO lazzo) (63.214.72.39) by mail8.wlv.netzero.net with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 18:43:28 -0000 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20010227134257.01cf2408@pop.netzero.net> X-Sender: w1jhj@pop.netzero.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 13:42:57 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, lowfer@qth.net From: "Jonathan Jesse" Subject: LF: Icom IC-746 on LF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: While surfing around the "net" for specifications on Icom's IC-746 HF/VHF transceiver, I found a modification to open the transmit capabilities (so called MARS/CAP mod). Reading on, I found that the author stated that this mod will open the transmit from 100khz to 60mhg. 100khz? Has anyone tried and or confirmed this? Thanks, Jon W1JHJ Jon W1JHJ Plymouth, MA FN41qw http://geocities.com/ws1k.rm Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29869 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 16:56:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 16:56:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 1334 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 16:56:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 16:56:19 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XnGf-0005lG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 16:46:29 +0000 Received: from imo-d10.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.42]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XnGe-0005l8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 16:46:28 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.21.7fb76ba (4463) for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 11:45:35 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <21.7fb76ba.27cd33af@aol.com> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 11:45:35 EST Subject: Re: LF: Dusk in Greece To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 2/27/01 3:40:52 PM GMT Standard Time, Alan.Melia@btinternet.com writes: << Hi David, well think where the sun is at this time of year....well south. That means there is a very pronounced NW/SE slant to the darkness shadow at this time of year. I am quite intrigued as there are several features of the plots that are very consistent from day to day. ("Coffee break" being one of them) The propagation papers do talk about considerable differences between E-W and N-S paths, I will have to go back and read that again. >> Of course ! Yes and SV is in the Souther Med. I'll have to look at the greyline path on my satellite programme before I put digit to keyboard next time. Are you going to visit the Bletchley Rally on the 7th April Alan? Could be another LF bar reunion. 73 David From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18719 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 16:47:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 16:47:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 9295 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 16:47:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 16:47:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Xn47-0005aq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 16:33:31 +0000 Received: from imo-m05.mx.aol.com ([64.12.136.8]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Xn46-0005ah-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 16:33:30 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-m05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.c4.1060b3c5 (9559) for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 11:32:32 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 11:32:32 EST Subject: LF: Dayton 2001 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello all. Is there anyone on the reflector, in Southern UK, interested in sharing expenses for a trip to the Dayton rally in May? 73 David G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12161 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 15:42:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 15:42:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 28616 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 15:42:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 15:42:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Xm8N-0005Ep-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 15:33:51 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Xm8J-0005Eh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 15:33:47 +0000 Received: from [62.7.91.21] (helo=default) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14Xm7z-0007He-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 15:33:27 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c0a0d2$29c00400$155b073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Dusk in Greece Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 11:33:38 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi David, well think where the sun is at this time of year....well south. That means there is a very pronounced NW/SE slant to the darkness shadow at this time of year. I am quite intrigued as there are several features of the plots that are very consistent from day to day. ("Coffee break" being one of them) The propagation papers do talk about considerable differences between E-W and N-S paths, I will have to go back and read that again. Cheers de Alan Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11048 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 08:57:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 08:57:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 11077 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 08:57:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 08:57:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Xffo-0002X4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:39:56 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [194.200.20.13] (helo=mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Xffn-0002Wz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:39:56 +0000 Received: from useram10.netscapeonline.co.uk ([62.125.132.183] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 14Xfb3-0003Ew-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:35:01 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A9B678E.B7BCAC01@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:38:38 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: 73 khz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All Maybe it is time to concentrate on 73 khz since we only have a couple of years left to experiment and break some distance records!!!! Too much time has been wasted on the transatlantic attempt and still no VALID QSO. We can always go back to 136 khz. For those in countries not permitted or cannot use 73 khz, xband is the answer. I have my tx built and ready and just need an antenna but unfortunately I am too busy at present with other more important business. For those equipped with a better than average antenna and 1w erp and a tail wind you might even make it across to W/VE. Perhaps we ought to encourage more activity across EU and the Middle East, on 136 khz and 73 khz(xband) It would be more interesting to get a report from Baghdad or Cairo for a change. de G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26415 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 08:57:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 08:57:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 10673 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 08:57:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 08:57:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Xffv-0002XY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:40:03 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [194.200.20.13] (helo=mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Xffu-0002XT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:40:02 +0000 Received: from useram10.netscapeonline.co.uk ([62.125.132.183] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 14XfbA-0003Fa-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:35:09 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A9B679C.30D03E22@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:38:52 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: EA QSO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3NYK asked if anyone has worked EA yet. I worked EA last year xband. He was on 3570 khz and my signal on 136.6 khz. His qth was on the CT/EA border and he gave me 579. My signal about the same strength in MALTA. LF activity does not seem to be spreading across EU as I expected. I suppose it hardly justifies the effort for so little activity, except maybe weekends, in fact normal cw seems to be declining on 136 khz. In discussions with others about getting on LF there seems to be a few problems to overcome apart from antenna effort. They are rusty on cw because they have not used it for years if EVER. They are not capable of building the necessary TX, they do not or cannot grasp the slow cw or WOBBLE mode of operation, never used a soldering iron. Most radio amateurs these days are APPLIANCE operators This is not the band for APPLIANCE operators although we do have some. de G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1514 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 00:13:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 00:13:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 15363 invoked from network); 27 Feb 2001 00:13:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 27 Feb 2001 00:13:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XXdA-0007yt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 00:04:40 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mtiwmhc27.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.52]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XXd9-0007yi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 00:04:39 +0000 Received: from att.net ([12.77.29.147]) by mtiwmhc27.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20010227000350.MLGG27260.mtiwmhc27.worldnet.att.net@att.net> for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 00:03:50 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A9AEEF4.EEA55753@att.net> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 19:04:04 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic: Beacon tests References: <3A9A91C6.32415.1C5444D@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Anyone wanting to be heard in the US should avoid 135.9237 because we have a strong loran line at 135.9236948 khz. Also I usually have a light line at 135.921 khz. Other than those two lines 920 to 926 is clear here in North Carolina. W4DEX Mike Dennison wrote: > > I will transmit each night on 135.9230 (my previous slot at 9237 seems > to be where Valerio is transmitting). 30s dot CW, sending 'XDV XDV'. > I can send 10s or 3s dots if preferred - please ask. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10556 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 21:39:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 21:39:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 1249 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 21:39:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 21:39:26 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XVGL-0006u7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 21:32:57 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XVGK-0006u2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 21:32:56 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.102.217]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:31:54 -0400 Message-ID: <3A9B1231.795EF8F@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 21:34:25 -0500 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re. Beacon tests References: <000c01c0a016$f4ad59e0$c290883e@g3aqc> Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit hi Laurie I will see if i can still hear 136 .   Got 3 feet of snow with five ft drifts
   73 de John VE1ZJ

LAWRENCE MAYHEAD wrote:

Correction,element length will be 15secs. Freq.135,921.3 dot,135,921.65 dash. Start time tonight 2300 utc.  73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13673 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 20:12:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 20:12:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 20420 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 20:12:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 20:12:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XTum-0006G3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:06:36 +0000 Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XTuh-0006Fm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:06:32 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.178.119]) by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010226200545.ETOH13669018.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:05:45 +1300 Message-ID: <007501c0a030$6c0adee0$b5b21bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3187.200102261523@gemini> Subject: LF: Re: Antenna measurements/losses/insulators Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:11:06 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James MB0BMU and others I agree with your comments that impedance bridges are up against it for directly measuring electrically short antennas, and that prior resonating with a loading coil (and correcting for coil loss) is a better way. > I don't know why rain has so much effect, but my favorite theory for > the major cause of loss resistance at the moment is that it is > caused mainly by dielectric losses in the ground, where the electric > field of the antenna penetrates to some depth at LF. This is > contrary to the conventional view that the major losses are due to > the resistance of the ground system. I don't think there is really a > contradiction, just that amateur antennas have relatively high > dielectric losses because they are smaller than conventional LF > antennas. A bit of thought shows that a predominance of dielectric > loss would explain lower loss resistance at higher frequency, and > G3AQC's "footprint" effects, among other things. My view on "moisture loss" is that water is a very lossy material at RF. The dielectric constant of water or ice is about 80, so rain drops or any surface moisture on an antenna significantly influence electric flux terminating on the wire. Natural wavelength in a media varies as the square root of dielectric constant, so at first it would seem a good idea to make a vertical in a plastic pipe filled with water, but that does not account for what additional loss arises from the water jacket. I do not have dissipation figures for water at LF so I can not attempt a back of the envelope loss estimate, but I intuitively know it is quite high. As an aside, water entering the braid of coaxial cable plays merry hell with loss and SWR, and that is caused by a combination of dielectric loading and loss from water molecules. Does any reader have some loss data for water, and how it varies with frequency? I believe there is merit in the "environment dielectric loss" idea for amateur LF antennas. Some time back I carried out an experiment by measuring the base impedance (R and jX) for all combinations of a top loaded vertical, by having vertical part alone, one side top loading only, then the other, then combined, also for short and long top loading. I have a number of bare copper buried ground radials. The resulting impedance figures made little sense at all until I converted them to parallel components. The parallel (admittance) data showed a clear trend that connecting top loading was like connecting parallel lossy capacitors. What was even more striking was that the power factor of each added part was very similar, irrespective of wire length (a normalised parallel RC figure per metre wire length could be assigned for a given environment?). It follows from this that the bigger the top loading, the lower should be the net resistive component of base impedance. > Re: Insulators - Although better insulators, ie big glass or ceramic > ones would help prevent the antenna catching fire or falling down, > they would not actually stop corona discharge from taking place. > This is a function of the field gradient around the antenna wires, > and so needs attention to the conductors more than the insulators, > hence the usefulness of corona rings. Prevention of corona is also > a good idea from the QRM point of view. Agreed. Always use good insulators. Avoid "sharp corners" on wires and be aware of deploying corona rings for higher powers. The ZL LF band 165 - 190 kHz is less demanding than the EU 136 kHz band for "loose caloric" in the antenna department. I can confess to melting some fairly thick monofilament nylon when I moved to a higher power transmitter. Braided nylon rope can act like fusewire when it is damp (another indication of dielectric loss in water?) 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12995 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 20:12:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 20:12:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 21816 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 20:12:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 20:12:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XTud-0006Fv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:06:27 +0000 Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XTub-0006Fl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 20:06:26 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.178.119]) by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010226200539.ETNO13669018.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Tue, 27 Feb 2001 09:05:39 +1300 Message-ID: <007401c0a030$686fb6c0$b5b21bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001a01c09e42$95b26320$cb9e74d5@w8k3f0> <002801c09f5e$991f9560$77b51bca@xtr743187> <003f01c0a006$7b65f020$369a74d5@w8k3f0> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: Measuring resistance of aerial system Date: Tue, 27 Feb 2001 08:31:02 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Dick PA0SE,
 
Thanks for the information on your shack being in the attic.  Down this way there are very few houses that are more than single storey, so my "suggestions" did not suit your QTH environment.
 
73, Bob
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2478 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 18:25:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 18:25:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 3605 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 18:25:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 18:25:14 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XSAN-0005Sm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:14:35 +0000 Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.36]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XSAH-0005R9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 18:14:31 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.82.7633112 (6964) for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:13:09 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <82.7633112.27cbf6b4@aol.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:13:08 EST Subject: Re: LF: Antenna measurements/losses/insulators To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 2/26/01 10:28:03 AM Eastern Standard Time, j.r.moritz@herts.ac.uk writes: << ...my favorite theory for the major cause of loss resistance at the moment is that it is caused mainly by dielectric losses in the ground, where the electric field of the antenna penetrates to some depth at LF. This is contrary to the conventional view that the major losses are due to the resistance of the ground system. I don't think there is really a contradiction, just that amateur antennas have relatively high dielectric losses because they are smaller than conventional LF antennas. A bit of thought shows that a predominance of dielectric loss would explain lower loss resistance at higher frequency, and G3AQC's "footprint" effects, among other things. >> For what it's worth, Jim's theory is entirely consistent with (pardon the expression) commercial practice and theory. I agree that there is no real contradiction. What we as amateurs lump together under the term "ground loss" are actually a number of factors, and at LF the dielectric properties of the ground certainly are a major component; perhaps _the_ major component at 136kHz. The soil conductivity charts we use to predict groundwave coverage at MF over North America differ greatly from the ones used at LF. Skin depth is a major reason usually cited for this discrepancy, along with different assumptions about dielectric constant. The interaction between the ground system and losses in the earth extend to a greater depth, where subsoil and rock properties may diverge widely from those near the surface. Thus, not only is the apparent conductivity different for MF and LF at any given location, but the shapes of the conductivity contours don't bear much resemblance to each other, either. All this appears consistent with what amateurs are finding with practical antenna systems at LF. 73, John From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6418 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 18:03:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 18:03:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 16904 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 18:03:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 18:03:26 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XRq4-0005FX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:53:36 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from kuku-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.63] helo=kuku.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XRq0-0005FK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:53:35 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from cheeks.excite.com ([199.172.152.207]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010226175208.ELIE460.kuku.excite.com@cheeks.excite.com> for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 09:52:08 -0800 Message-ID: <23417589.983209927926.JavaMail.imail@cheeks.excite.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 09:51:53 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: SXV coffee break ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 62.253.64.5 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Markus, In order to see anything in this image, I had to download it into Paint Shop Pro and increase the brightness by 30%. Since others are presumably having the same difficulty, I thought it might be worth mentioning on the reflector. After doing this, there is a very obvious break as you describe. 73, John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1059 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 17:41:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 17:41:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 23897 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 17:41:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 17:41:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XRUs-00057T-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:31:42 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XRUr-00057O-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:31:41 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:26:33 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:26:30 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Transatlantic: Beacon tests Message-ID: <3A9A91C6.32415.1C5444D@localhost> In-reply-to: <001a01c0a004$76e66d60$1bb4883e@g3aqc> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3AQC wrote: > Since there has not been too much activity recently I propose to > run some beacon tests starting tonight, if there are no objections. > The frequency will be my usual just below 135.922. > I shall be running DFCW at 17sec element length, 0.33Hz shift > This looks quite good on 10sec dot ARGO even in noise and does not use up too much bandwidth.I would appreciate any reports,from any distance! 73s Laurie.. I will transmit each night on 135.9230 (my previous slot at 9237 seems to be where Valerio is transmitting). 30s dot CW, sending 'XDV XDV'. I can send 10s or 3s dots if preferred - please ask. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5800 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 17:15:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 17:15:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 24672 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 17:15:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 17:15:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XR9E-0004vT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:09:20 +0000 Received: from mail3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XR99-0004vN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:09:16 +0000 Received: from modem-66.camlost.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.144.194] helo=g3aqc) by mail3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14XQxP-0003zL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:57:07 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01c0a016$f4ad59e0$c290883e@g3aqc> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. Beacon tests Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 17:09:18 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Correction,element length will be 15secs. Freq.135,921.3 dot,
135,921.65 dash. Start time tonight 2300 utc.  73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7342 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 16:16:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 16:16:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 19125 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 16:16:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 16:16:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XQCu-0004U7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:09:04 +0000 Received: from lepidachrosite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XQCs-0004Tt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:09:02 +0000 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust54.tnt30.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.116.154.54]) by lepidachrosite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id CC7A4CB0CE for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:08:16 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <003e01c0a006$7a17c540$369a74d5@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001a01c09e42$95b26320$cb9e74d5@w8k3f0> <002801c09f5e$991f9560$77b51bca@xtr743187> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Measuring resistance of aerial system Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:52:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
 
----- Oorspronkelijk bericht -----
Van: Vernall
Verzonden: zondag 25 februari 2001 19:36
Onderwerp: LF: Re: Measuring resistance of aerial system

Dick PA0SE,
 
Regarding your observed losses being higher in damp conditions:
 
It amazes me that the resistance is lower in summer than in winter. I had expected the opposite.
There are no trees near the aerial.
 
When it rains or in fog the resistance rises considirable, as indicates by the aerial current dropping by up to 25%.
 
Could that be due to water particles being heated in the field around the aerial? Or is it only caused by increased leakage via the aerial insulators and the feed-in? 
 
You could check for leakage on the antenna wire with a "megger".  You may also have induced losses in the wall of your house and loss happens to vary with moisture conditions (could be checked before and after a hosing down).  A possible countermeasure is to increase the spacing of the antenna "upwire" from other objects (which reduces the field strength and induction loss in the other surface?).
 
73, Bob
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12744 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 16:16:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 16:16:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 18243 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 16:16:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 16:16:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XQCu-0004U6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:09:04 +0000 Received: from lepidachrosite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XQCs-0004Tv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:09:02 +0000 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust54.tnt30.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.116.154.54]) by lepidachrosite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id E1EDBCB106 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:08:18 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <003f01c0a006$7b65f020$369a74d5@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001a01c09e42$95b26320$cb9e74d5@w8k3f0> <002801c09f5e$991f9560$77b51bca@xtr743187> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Measuring resistance of aerial system Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:11:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
To All from PA0SE-
 
Bob Vernall wrote:
You could check for leakage on the antenna wire with a "megger".  You may also have induced losses in the wall of your house and loss happens to vary with moisture conditions (could be checked before and after a hosing down).  A possible countermeasure is to increase the spacing of the antenna "upwire" from other objects (which reduces the field strength and induction loss in the other surface?).
 
My shack is in the attic. The aerial wire goes up under a slope to the top of a steel mast at 18m. The wire is far removed from roof and walls. There is some unwanted capacitance to the mast of course but it is unlikely that this varies with season. The current flows to earth via the central heating system and the gas mains. As the full aerial current flows via that system it certainly takes part in the radiation. But the voltage on it is so low that no losses via capacitive current to damp walls etc. can play a role.
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20748 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 16:12:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 16:12:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 9063 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 16:11:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 16:11:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XQ8b-0004Tg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:04:37 +0000 Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XQ8X-0004Tb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 16:04:33 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.5c.7aef634 (672) for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:03:30 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <5c.7aef634.27cbd850@aol.com> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:03:28 EST Subject: LF: SXV coffee break ? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060106090401020802020503" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 70 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060106090401020802020503 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi Alan and all, > Second there is a very consistent wide dip in signal which has > occurred with a minimum within a few minutes of 1500z every day. (No I dont > think it is the tea-break time at the TX site! the dip is about 10dB and the > signals takes about 20mins to decline and another 20 mins to return) This sounded just too curious, so I took a look. Well, the little spectrogram (26.02.01, 14:25..15:25, 10.8 Hz, 30 s, +12..+42 dBuV/m) suggests the drop from 14:49 to 14:53 is abrupt and actually a man-made effect. Fs this afternoon was around 34 dBuV/m, and tx frequency is not absolutely stable, notice the half-pixel drift upwards before the break. 73 de Markus, DF6NM --------------060106090401020802020503 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="SXVBREAK.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="SXVBREAK.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEBLAEsAAD/2wBDAAoHBwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8l JCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8SDc9Pjv/wAALCAAUAHgBAREA/8QAHwAA AQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAAAgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQR BRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkKFhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RF RkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWGh4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ip qrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/9oACAEB AAA/APN08J3TDmaEZ6fvB1py+Ebgtj7TAP8AtoKQ+FZlj3G5t+mcCSnnwnIRkXduP+B/X/Cg eFWwCbm3PIHDnn9KP+EUIBzeW+dpPDn/AArCuYRBdzQ7lPlyMuR0ODitmz8Mm4tYZzd248wB sMxGM1OvhPegIvIAf98/4e1KPCYMhX7VbgD/AGzQ3hNVJ/0y34OMbj6U9fCKHObu3/77P+f/ ANVRjwouQDfW/I7seOae/hJASBeW4wM/fNDeE41AJvIDkdNxrd/swqpPJ4HGOg9P60Npxxxk Z9ulOXTM5jwVznnHAqQ6cGb7hGQO2Mc0o01SQOVI6cUv9mpjGCM8Z9M1weo6dc/2ld7YsqJn x8w/vH3rsNL05RptrvHzCMZXPfFXP7NT++eOvP0qQaamAdxyTnGaRNOjDcnOcDr+v+fSlNjF uDZJxn5c/wCf8mmjTolLDhyByMih7GMkLk546t/n1prWMfmNl2BU4xmvP0uLkswN1OQM/wDL Q04NM0ZJuJj8oP3zTW8zds8+XHP8dK4f5f30vIH8dRjeXAMsnOD96lKEZHmSf99VE8QzIckk HvT0ixECHcc9jThHgH53+7nr70LFlyvmPgf7VAj+WMb3+YZPPtThF90b3wwOfm96jaPBOHfg etStCpmHzN97HWpWiBTO98/Wv//Z --------------060106090401020802020503-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28292 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 15:29:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 15:29:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 3839 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 15:29:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 15:29:34 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XPUp-00049w-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:23:31 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XPUl-00049q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:23:29 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14XPUS-00055I-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:23:08 +0000 Message-ID: <3187.200102261523@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 15:27:32 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Antenna measurements/losses/insulators X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF group, Re- antenna loss resistance: A basic difficulty with direct impedance measurement of an LF antenna is that the loss resistance is much smaller than the magnitude of the reactance. For example, an antenna with R(loss) = 50ohm, C = 500pF, has a capacitive reactance of 2.3405kohm. The magnitude of the combined impedance is 2.341kohm, and the phase angle 88.8degrees, so quite close to that of the pure capacitance. A bridge will produce an accurate measurement of the capacitance component, but much larger errors will occur in measuring the resistive component, which is only a few percent of the total impedance. Even a very good bridge will struggle to get anything more than a rough figure for the resistance. A better way to measure loss resistance is to cancel out the capacitive reactance of the antenna with a series loading coil (ie. tune it to resonance), and then measure the remaining resistance, as done by PA0SE. A seperate measurement is then required to determine the loss resistance of the loading coil. This can be done by resonating the loading coil with a low-loss capacitor in place of the antenna, and measuring the resistance again. Re: antenna losses - I use my "Scopematch" tuning aid (see LF Handbook and errata) to continuously monitor the antenna resistance while transmitting. I also see the resistance go up (and the capacitance, to a smaller extent) when it is raining. The change occurs practically instantly when the rain starts, and is usually about 10 - 20%. I don't think wet insulators can be responsible - estimating the additional power loss at a couple of hundred watts in my case, they should dry themselves out quite fast! I don't know why rain has so much effect, but my favorite theory for the major cause of loss resistance at the moment is that it is caused mainly by dielectric losses in the ground, where the electric field of the antenna penetrates to some depth at LF. This is contrary to the conventional view that the major losses are due to the resistance of the ground system. I don't think there is really a contradiction, just that amateur antennas have relatively high dielectric losses because they are smaller than conventional LF antennas. A bit of thought shows that a predominance of dielectric loss would explain lower loss resistance at higher frequency, and G3AQC's "footprint" effects, among other things. Re: Insulators - Although better insulators, ie big glass or ceramic ones would help prevent the antenna catching fire or falling down, they would not actually stop corona discharge from taking place. This is a function of the field gradient around the antenna wires, and so needs attention to the conductors more than the insulators, hence the usefulness of corona rings. Prevention of corona is also a good idea from the QRM point of view. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1290 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 15:03:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 15:03:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 13206 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 15:03:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 15:03:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XP5E-0003wH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:57:04 +0000 Received: from mail3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XP53-0003wC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:56:53 +0000 Received: from modem-27.eldalie.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.180.27] helo=g3aqc) by mail3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14XOtJ-0000wi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:44:45 +0000 Message-ID: <001a01c0a004$76e66d60$1bb4883e@g3aqc> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Beacon tests Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:56:54 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi All,
Since there has not been too much activity recently I propose to
run some beacon tests starting tonight, if there are no objections. The frequency will be my usual just below 135.922.
I shall be running DFCW at  17sec element length, 0.33Hz shift
This looks quite good on 10sec dot ARGO even in noise and does not use up too much bandwidth.I would appreciate any reports,from any distance!   73s Laurie..
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13107 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 14:00:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 14:00:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 19070 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 14:00:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 14:00:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XO6K-0003Up-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:54:08 +0000 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XO6I-0003Uk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:54:07 +0000 Received: from [213.1.191.166] (helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14XO5z-0003vs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:53:48 +0000 Message-ID: <000701c09ffb$1720b100$a6bf01d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: SXV plots.....1500z dip Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:07:03 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi David, well no, its too early for sundown effects. The twilight shadow reaches the west coast of Greece about 1625z with full darkness about 1650z. (old GeoClock) That was the puzzling thing. There is a slight 'wriggle' in the plot at dusk with two slight dips about an hour apart but nothing as consistent and deep as the 1550z dip. Most odd. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9854 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 13:57:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 13:57:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 15035 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 13:57:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 13:57:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XO4Z-0003Ub-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:52:19 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XO4Y-0003US-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:52:18 +0000 Received: from att.net ([12.77.27.99]) by mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20010226135124.CXUV25433.mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net@att.net> for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:51:24 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A9A5F69.3C8DBEE6@att.net> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 08:51:37 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic: Is anyone there? References: <3A9A3391.24025.554551@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike, I have two excuses for not looking for your signal the past week. I did not know you or anyone else was transmitting. If you posted your transmitting schedule I'm sorry I missed it. My other reason for not listening is because of thunderstorms. Keep us advised for your transmissions and I am sure someone on this side will be watching. Dexter Mike Dennison wrote: > > I have been sending my call overnight on 135.923kHz for the last > week, and I know that IK5ZPV has also been on. But is there anyone > watching now? The reports have stopped - does that mean that we > have not been seen, or that no-one is out there? > > It would be a shame for the effort to stop now that two QSOs have > taken place. > > Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) > http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6615 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 13:55:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 13:55:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 2417 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 13:55:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 13:55:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XO1l-0003Tx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:49:25 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from d06lmsgate-3.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XO1i-0003Tn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:49:22 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by d06lmsgate-3.uk.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id NAA133280 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:39:53 GMT Received: from usa.net (ss10.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.76]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id NAA126264 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:48:27 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A9A5E5C.3DB84D63@usa.net> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 14:47:08 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: 10 sec. dots References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D75E7@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Talbot Andrew wrote: > Oh -- that explains a lot -- > Particularly, why, during testing yesterday of SMT Hell bandwidths and > pixel durations, the optimum settings for decoding with Argo seemed to > come out with ratios that did not appear to be exactly related to > specified dot length. > > Shouldn't the labelled dot length be in ratios of 2 then, rather than 3 > ? > Yes, that would have been more correct, but I chose to follow the other way around, i.e. I used what the universally accepted dot lengths were, and tried to adapt the resolutions to them, accepting some approximations, not much relevant for this use. I could have used a non-power-of-two FFT algorithm, there are a few around, but for simplicity and speed sake I didn't. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26891 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 13:25:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 13:25:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 27412 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 13:25:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 13:25:40 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XNWa-0003Ht-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:17:12 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XNWZ-0003Ho-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:17:11 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id NAA12966; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:19:08 GMT Received: (qmail 3927 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 14:09:06 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 14:09:06 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id NAA08234; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:57:43 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma008111; Mon, 26 Feb 01 13:57:26 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-3.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:21:17 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-3.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:16:32 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D75E7@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: 10 sec. dots Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:16:45 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Oh -- that explains a lot -- Particularly, why, during testing yesterday of SMT Hell bandwidths and pixel durations, the optimum settings for decoding with Argo seemed to come out with ratios that did not appear to be exactly related to specified dot length. Shouldn't the labelled dot length be in ratios of 2 then, rather than 3 ? Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: Alberto di Bene [mailto:dibene@usa.net] > Sent: 2001-02-26 12:37 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: Re: 10 sec. dots > > >> At 10s dot the FFT bin size is exactly 1/4 of the size at 3s > dot. So, if the noise power > is evenly distributed, and the wanted signal falls exactly in > a single bin, there is a 6 dB > S/N improvement from passing from one mode to the other. How > those 6 dB translate > into a visual gain is difficult to say, given also the higly > non-linear mapping between > magnitudes and color saturation in Argo. > > 73 Alberto I2PHD > > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16441 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 12:52:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 12:52:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 10839 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 12:52:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 12:52:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XN2w-00033i-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:46:34 +0000 Received: from rubellite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XN2v-00033d-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:46:33 +0000 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust168.tnt34.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.116.162.168]) by rubellite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id E95DD2AFF for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:46:03 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <006201c09fea$32262c20$a8a274d5@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3A9A32DC.5979.527F64@localhost> Subject: LF: Re: A good weekend Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:28:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike, G3XDV wrote: > 2) Three months after I was forced to apply, I received the planning > permission for my antenna. Congratulations! 73, Dcik, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8848 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 12:46:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 12:46:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 29011 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 12:46:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 12:46:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XMwA-0002y0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:39:34 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from d12lmsgate-2.de.ibm.com ([195.212.91.200]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XMw9-0002xq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:39:33 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d12relay02.de.ibm.com (d12relay02.de.ibm.com [9.165.215.23]) by d12lmsgate-2.de.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id NAA144654 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:38:44 +0100 Received: from usa.net (ss10.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.76]) by d12relay02.de.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id NAA32172 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:37:18 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A9A4DF1.1305DE7B@usa.net> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:37:05 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: 10 sec. dots References: <3.0.1.16.20010226103826.2dcfda92@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik Strobbe wrote: > Saturday afternoon I was in the shack and had ARGO running (at 3sec/dot) > while being otherwise occupied. at 17.50 I saw a very faint interruped line > on 137701, 'T' copy at best. It seemed 10sec/dot QRSS to me, so I switched > ARGO to 10sec/dot and the faint line became a 'O' copy signal of what > seemed the end of a QSO as I could just copy : 'TNX E E SK'. > Conclusion : 10 sec/dot can make a real difference over 3 sec/dot (from 'T' > to 'O') > Question : who's transmission did I catch ? > > 73, Rik ON7YD At 10s dot the FFT bin size is exactly 1/4 of the size at 3s dot. So, if the noise power is evenly distributed, and the wanted signal falls exactly in a single bin, there is a 6 dB S/N improvement from passing from one mode to the other. How those 6 dB translate into a visual gain is difficult to say, given also the higly non-linear mapping between magnitudes and color saturation in Argo. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27144 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 12:36:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 12:36:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 10273 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 12:36:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 12:36:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XMlI-0002rh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:28:20 +0000 Received: from chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XMlF-0002rc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:28:17 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-1-29.easynet.co.uk [195.40.206.29]) by chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id BFE53F87AB for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:27:56 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <001c01c09ff0$17a60ea0$1dce28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000701c09dcf$6830e5c0$14b401d5@default> <14WhOa-2CnHRwC@fwd03.sul.t-online.com> Subject: LF: Re: Impedance bridge Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:31:03 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Alan Melia schrieb: > >......... I used a Hatfield LE300/A RF bridge. The bridge was zeroed and the > >balance was achieved with the aerial,......... > > Cheers de Alan G3NYK > > Hi Alan, Hi Dick, > I`m testing lf-antennas since two years using a homebrew-bridge. > I do not trust the measuring-results achieved with that bridge. changing the > symetric components (L) several times I still fiel it is cross-eyed (as we would > say in germany). > Alan, where did you get that Hatfield-LE300/A-RF-bridge from ? > Dick, where did you get that Wayne-Kerr-B.601-bridge from ? > Uwe/dj8wx You could build the 3-M bridge described in the LF Experimenter's handbook. It has the virtue of simplicity, has no variable components and is self-calibrating. The only additional items of equipment are a digital voltmeter and a low power LF transmitter (I use a signal generator with an amplifier) The five scalar voltage readings can be simply converted to R +/-jX using the DOS program located at http://web.ukonline.co.uk/g3ldo. Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20235 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 12:02:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 12:02:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 13114 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 12:02:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 12:02:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XMEc-0002e4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:54:34 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from d06lmsgate-3.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XMEa-0002dz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:54:32 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.147]) by d06lmsgate-3.uk.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id LAA114916 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:44:58 GMT Received: from usa.net (ss10.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.76]) by d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id LAA200830 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:53:34 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A9A4375.76172998@usa.net> Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 12:52:21 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: keps References: <3A99376E.7F7AB861@netscapeonline.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: gii3kev wrote: > Hi All > Although this is the other end of the spectrum from LF, does anyone know > the email address for keplerian elements for amateur and other > satellites. > I use the IT prog with auto load for either amsat or nasa 2 ele sets. > 73 de Mal/G3KEV I hope you have the version 1.5 of IT, as the old version has problems after having trespassed the year 2000 border. Anyway one of the best places to find keplerian elements is http://www.amsat.org 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29422 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 11:25:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 11:25:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 14378 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 11:25:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 11:25:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XLi2-0002Qx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:20:54 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from kauha.saunalahti.fi ([195.197.53.227]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XLhy-0002Qs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:20:50 +0000 Received: from meisaku (CCLVII.jdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.13.57]) by kauha.saunalahti.fi (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id f1QBLGC25129 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:21:16 +0200 (EET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010226132022.00834d50@pop.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: vaiski1@pop.saunalahti.fi (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:20:22 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: Re: LF: A good weekend In-reply-to: <3A9A32DC.5979.527F64@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Reino, OH1TN heard Brian, CT1DRP on Friday 23 Feb, 1929-1944 UTC, perhaps they had two-way qso on Saturday or Sunday evening..? Distance (NGS ellipsoidal) = 3116.8 km Azimuth = 237.9 & 032.4 deg respectively. I didn't catch Brian - no smile.. Info from Vaino, OH2LX At 10:41 26.2.2001 -0000, you wrote: >1) Worked CT1DRP using QRSS (see my web site for pics). > >2) Three months after I was forced to apply, I received the planning >permission for my antenna. > >A big smile here :-) > >Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) >http://www.lf.thersgb.net |---------------------------------------------------------| | V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX ¤ 60N33.6 024E58.7 KP20LN74 | | P.O.Box 50 ¤ Telephone: +358-9-4173965 | | FIN-05401, Jokela ¤ Telefax: +358-9-4173961 | | Finland ¤ email: vaiski@dlc.fi | |---------------------------------------------------------| From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19661 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 11:19:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 11:19:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 18075 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 11:19:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 11:19:19 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XLXD-0002L5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:09:43 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from kauha.saunalahti.fi ([195.197.53.227]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XLXB-0002L0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:09:41 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from meisaku (MMMCLI.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.46.151]) by kauha.saunalahti.fi (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id f1QBAFC22866 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:10:16 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010226130921.007e2a30@pop.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: vaiski1@pop.saunalahti.fi (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 13:09:21 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: LF: Fs Measurements by OH2LX, 26-Feb-2001 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Changing to another type of archiving. Updated tif-graphic showing measured daily Fs of 128.9, 135.7, and 138.8 will be emailed to those interested. Fs in dB(uV/m) by OH2LX, abt 2035 UTC (99=Nil): >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kHz;19feb;20feb;21feb;22feb;23feb;24feb;25feb 057.7;40;34;44;39;41;42;46=(carrier) 060.0;49;49;47;52;48;50;52 068.0;99;52;51;50;47;52;52 068.9;99;99;51;51;99;99;99 073.2;99;44;44;47;44;47;49=(carrier peaking 73.2) 075.0;39;41;39;42;40;37;42 077.5;51;52;50;42;46;50;54 130.5;07;02;04;05;06;06;05=(DGPS test beacon) 128.9;43;44;43;45;38;41;44 138.8;47;47;45;44;46;42;38 135.8;17;22;99;23;22;17;25 137.0;99;99;99;99;99;99;99 016.0;48;50;50;53;51;50;53 018.3;53;99;99;99;99;99;99 023.4;62;64;64;65;64;64;67 024.0;41;41;43;42;41;39;42 ;;Day;19;20;21;22;23;24;25 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Day;Time;Call;Fs 20feb;2026;IK5ZPV;-4 20feb;2042;IK5ZPV;-3 20feb;2047;IK5ZPV;-4 20feb;2053;IK5ZPV;-3 20feb;2035;OH1BS;19 20feb;2136;F6BWO;-5 20feb;2116;DJ9IE;-1 20feb;2134;DJ9IE;-1 22feb;2102;DJ9IE;-2 22feb;2115;DJ9IE;-3 22feb;2101;F6CNI;-6 22feb;2150;SM6PXJ;12 22feb;2154;SM6PXJ;12 23feb;2020;OH1TN;22 23feb;2032;OH1TN;22 23feb;2228;DJ9IE;-0 23feb;2240;DJ9IE;-1 23feb;2232;F6BWO;-7 24feb;1810;OH1TN;20(qrss,varies:20..22) 24feb;2011;OH1TN;18(qrss,varies:19..16) 25feb;2014;OH1TN;21(qrss,varies:19..25) ------------------------------------------------------- (R&S ESH2/-----10m coax----->/1:10/-----15m wire-----): Noise level (136.3-136.9) with antenna, in 200Hz IF Bw: -24..-22 dB(uV)-> estim. Field strength -4..-2 dB(uV/m) ------------------------------------------------------- End of message of 26-Feb-2001, 1110 UTC, from OH2LX ------------------------------------------------------- |---------------------------------------------------------| | V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX ¤ 60N33.6 024E58.7 KP20LN74 | | P.O.Box 50 ¤ Telephone: +358-9-4173965 | | FIN-05401, Jokela ¤ Telefax: +358-9-4173961 | | Finland ¤ email: vaiski@dlc.fi | |---------------------------------------------------------| From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7416 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 11:08:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 11:08:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 27060 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 11:08:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 11:08:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XLGh-0002DI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:52:39 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from jazzfm.netcomuk.co.uk ([194.42.248.66]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XLGf-0002DD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:52:38 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jazzfm.com [192.168.102.5] by jazzfm.netcomuk.co.uk [127.0.0.1] with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 11:00:06 +0000 Received: from JazzFM-Message_Server by jazzfm.com with Novell_GroupWise; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:51:34 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: X-Mailer: Novell GroupWise 5.2 Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:51:25 +0000 From: "Martin Charman" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: LF digest MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: Martin@jazzfm.com Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: OK on NetScape 4.7 Martin G4FKK >>> "g3ldo" 23 February 2001 21:51:39 >>> I have made a start on the digest of technical material on the e-mail reflector. This first bit concerns active antennas (the one of the Decca antenna amp kindly redrawn by John, G4CNN). I would be interested on hearing how the diagrams come out on the various browsers - every one I try makes the page look different. I am a newcomer to this business so advice readily accepted. The web page is http://web.ukonline.co.uk/g3ldo/ Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18898 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 10:52:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 10:52:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 18198 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 10:52:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 10:52:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XLB1-0002By-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:46:47 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XLB0-0002Bt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:46:46 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:44:35 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:44:33 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Transatlantic: Is anyone there? Message-ID: <3A9A3391.24025.554551@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have been sending my call overnight on 135.923kHz for the last week, and I know that IK5ZPV has also been on. But is there anyone watching now? The reports have stopped - does that mean that we have not been seen, or that no-one is out there? It would be a shame for the effort to stop now that two QSOs have taken place. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24265 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 10:49:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 10:49:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 19976 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 10:49:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 10:49:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XL7D-00027L-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:42:51 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XL7C-00027G-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:42:50 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:41:33 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:41:32 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: A good weekend Message-ID: <3A9A32DC.5979.527F64@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: 1) Worked CT1DRP using QRSS (see my web site for pics). 2) Three months after I was forced to apply, I received the planning permission for my antenna. A big smile here :-) Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28101 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 10:37:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 10:37:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 25648 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 10:37:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 10:37:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XKwV-00021i-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:31:47 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XKwL-00021d-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:31:37 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:17:24 +0000 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:17:23 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: 10 sec. dots Message-ID: <3A9A2D33.28543.3C6505@localhost> In-reply-to: <3.0.1.16.20010226103826.2dcfda92@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <003901c09f82$336e37c0$281a7bd5@default> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ON7YD wrote: > Saturday afternoon I was in the shack and had ARGO running (at 3sec/dot) > while being otherwise occupied. at 17.50 I saw a very faint interruped line > on 137701, 'T' copy at best. It seemed 10sec/dot QRSS to me, so I switched > ARGO to 10sec/dot and the faint line became a 'O' copy signal of what > seemed the end of a QSO as I could just copy : 'TNX E E SK'. > Conclusion : 10 sec/dot can make a real difference over 3 sec/dot (from 'T' > to 'O') > Question : who's transmission did I catch ? This was Brian, CT1DRP, signing with me. We changed from 3s to 10s dots as copy was marginal. The difference was huge as can be seen from http://www.lf.thersgb.net/gallery/ct1drp.htm The downside was, of course, the time it took to exchange the most basic info. Yes, I know I should be using DFCW . . . . Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10366 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 09:45:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 09:45:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 16952 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 09:44:58 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 09:44:58 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XK7P-0001iO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 09:38:59 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XK7O-0001iJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 09:38:58 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA175616 for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:38:39 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010226103826.2dcfda92@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 10:38:26 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: 10 sec. dots In-reply-to: <003901c09f82$336e37c0$281a7bd5@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Saturday afternoon I was in the shack and had ARGO running (at 3sec/dot) while being otherwise occupied. at 17.50 I saw a very faint interruped line on 137701, 'T' copy at best. It seemed 10sec/dot QRSS to me, so I switched ARGO to 10sec/dot and the faint line became a 'O' copy signal of what seemed the end of a QSO as I could just copy : 'TNX E E SK'. Conclusion : 10 sec/dot can make a real difference over 3 sec/dot (from 'T' to 'O') Question : who's transmission did I catch ? 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22848 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 09:16:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 09:16:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 18003 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 09:16:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 09:16:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XJfw-0001XE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 09:10:36 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [194.200.20.13] (helo=mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XJfs-0001X6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 09:10:32 +0000 Received: from userap63.netscapeonline.co.uk ([62.125.134.25] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 14XJb9-00035w-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 09:05:39 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A99376E.7F7AB861@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 16:48:46 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: keps Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All Although this is the other end of the spectrum from LF, does anyone know the email address for keplerian elements for amateur and other satellites. I use the IT prog with auto load for either amsat or nasa 2 ele sets. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9260 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 08:36:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 08:36:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 9631 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 08:36:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 08:36:08 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XJ0i-0001G1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 08:28:00 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XJ0h-0001Fw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 08:27:59 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id IAA18705; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 08:29:56 GMT Received: (qmail 17226 invoked from network); 26 Feb 2001 09:19:55 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 26 Feb 2001 09:19:55 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id JAA27778; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 09:08:33 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma027683; Mon, 26 Feb 01 09:07:54 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-3.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 08:31:44 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-3.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 08:26:47 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D75E4@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: View Graph Engineers Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 08:27:14 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: We also use the term "Meetings Engineers" for those who spend their time in conferences and talking rather than getting things done. 'JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: Rye Gewalt [mailto:ryeg@sitestar.net] > Sent: 2001-02-25 21:31 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: View Graph Engineers > > > First I have to correct my spelling. It's View Graph, which > is a US trade > name for the transparent slides that are used in business meeting > presentations -- they can be made on a copy machine or a > laser printer and > are projected onto a screen. View Graph engineers are all > talk and aspire > to become managers (grin) --- or at least don't want to > bother with the > dirty hands part of actually making something work. They'd > rather just do > the "high level" stuff....... > > Rye > > > > Dave Pick wrote: > > > OK Rye, > > > > Now we all know what a steckdosen ham is... Could you > enlighten me as to > > what a "view-grap engineer" is??!! > > > > 73. Dave G3YXM. > > > > (certainly is educational, this forum!) > > > > >I am always > > > looking for derogatory names for non tinkers and > view-grap engineers. > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6814 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2001 23:52:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Feb 2001 23:52:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 11258 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2001 23:52:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 25 Feb 2001 23:52:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XAah-0006cu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 23:28:35 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XAag-0006cn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 23:28:34 +0000 Received: from [213.122.220.185] (helo=default) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14XAaO-0006GB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 23:28:16 +0000 Message-ID: <003a01c09f82$3440ca00$281a7bd5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots for 24/25 Feb at GB7DXM Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 23:22:50 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all there seems to be a fair bit of activity this weekend. I have heard DJ9IE and EI0CF on the speaker most days this last week. I also remember hearing an unfamiliar call-sign this weekend, G8TB (559) who was calling G4XAT who I could not hear. Has anyone worked EA yet?? G3NYK de GB7MRS 25-Feb-2001 2224Z > 136.5 F6BWO 25-Feb-2001 1936Z calling ok1dtn 136.5 OK1DTN 25-Feb-2001 1918Z 549 pse lsn QRPP abt 2 W Inp 136.4 OK1DTN 25-Feb-2001 1614Z 589! 136.4 PA0BWL 25-Feb-2001 1343Z 539 cq 136.4 OK1DTN 25-Feb-2001 1141Z cq 136.8 OK1DTN 25-Feb-2001 1140Z 519 cq 136.6 OK1DTN 25-Feb-2001 1127Z 559 cq 136.0 OE5ODL 25-Feb-2001 1102Z cq 136.7 DJ1ZB 25-Feb-2001 1100Z cq 136.5 OK1DTN 25-Feb-2001 1049Z in qso with g3yxm 137.7 DK8KW 25-Feb-2001 0948Z cq qrss 137.7 DJ5AO 25-Feb-2001 0943Z cq qrss 136.5 DJ7RD 25-Feb-2001 0927Z 599 cq 136.4 DJ7RD 25-Feb-2001 0926Z cq 579 136.5 DF0WD 24-Feb-2001 1351Z 519 - first LF station i eve 136.5 G3XDV 24-Feb-2001 1351Z clg cq 569 in JO42 137.4 DIGI 24-Feb-2001 1343Z someone testing new FSK mode 136.5 PA0SE 24-Feb-2001 1336Z clg cq 136.7 OH1BS 24-Feb-2001 1329Z clg cq 559 in JO42 136.7 DF0WD 24-Feb-2001 1250Z 559 qso with oh1bs 429 136.9 F6BWO 24-Feb-2001 1057Z 439 cq 136.8 G3ZES 23-Feb-2001 2334Z are you there Sir ? 136.6 OK1RP 23-Feb-2001 2324Z Cross from 3.567,TU to 136.2 DJ9IE 23-Feb-2001 2314Z 55 also M0BMU 57 136.4 DJ9IE 23-Feb-2001 2257Z still 559 in JN69VB. 136.4 F6BWO 23-Feb-2001 2230Z with Ulrich, DJ9IE. 136.7 OK1DWF 23-Feb-2001 2159Z clg CQ...(449 in JN69VB) 136.4 OH1TN 23-Feb-2001 2154Z called by DJ9IE... 136.4 DJ9IE 23-Feb-2001 1906Z 559 cq 136.7 DL3FDO 23-Feb-2001 1905Z 579 cq G3NYK de GB7MRS 25-Feb-2001 2225Z > Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6725 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2001 23:52:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Feb 2001 23:52:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 11114 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2001 23:52:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 25 Feb 2001 23:52:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XAah-0006cs-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 23:28:35 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XAaf-0006ci-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 23:28:33 +0000 Received: from [213.122.220.185] (helo=default) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14XAaN-0006GB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 23:28:15 +0000 Message-ID: <003901c09f82$336e37c0$281a7bd5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Propagation ...SXV plots Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 23:04:46 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, no not boring Trans-Atlantic again.....maybe be something of more general interest. After the 'off' period of SXV (Marathon) last week I decided that as I was getting 'withdrawal symptoms' because CFH has been missing for so long, I would do a few plots of SXV to 'keep my hand in'. The results are actually quite interesting. So much so I am sorry I did not consider measuring it before. I have only plotted SXV for 84 hours now but there are some surprising features. First the signal is at its all time worst at about 0530 to 0830z !! This is the magic morning time we have all assumed to be good. ( This may have implications for anyone trying to set up a sked with Brain in CT-land) Second there is a very consistent wide dip in signal which has occurred with a minimum within a few minutes of 1500z every day. (No I dont think it is the tea-break time at the TX site! the dip is about 10dB and the signals takes about 20mins to decline and another 20 mins to return) This is a most odd effect as all the other features differ from day to day, except at sun-down and sun-up. The best time seems to be midnight to about 0400z, but the post dawn period 0900 to 1200z seems to be very consistent and not far behind with level about 6dB lower. Evening conditions are quite good climbing steadily to a peak at about midnight (though often as peaking as early as 2100z if there are no deep fades to cut the signal up) This is a path of about 2500kms with a long sea-reach up the Adriatic before crossing the Alps, so it may not be directly comparable with inland paths. It may however explain why I often seem to have seen Valerio on QRSS at better strength in the late morning that earlier. I do not have enough data yet to explain the variations but it looks as though the continuation of these measurements could prove to be interesting. I suppose if this is the case it might also prove to be useful to log the daytime signal strength from DCF39 accurately. .GIF files in 12hour slices can be sent to anyone interested. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4687 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2001 23:36:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 25 Feb 2001 23:36:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 7520 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2001 23:36:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 25 Feb 2001 23:36:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XA1T-0006Rc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 22:52:11 +0000 Received: from cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.177]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14XA1R-0006RX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 22:52:10 +0000 Received: from modem-240.eldacar.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.179.240] helo=robing) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14XA19-0003xA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 22:51:51 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c09f7d$c93695e0$f0b3883e@robing> From: "Robin T. Greenwood" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000701c09dcf$6830e5c0$14b401d5@default> <14WhOa-2CnHRwC@fwd03.sul.t-online.com> <005d01c09f15$48ddd100$a77a74d5@w8k3f0> <3A9927E3.90237721@sitestar.net> Subject: Re: LF: Re: G3NYK/PA0SE-bridges Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 19:51:42 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: A close common modern translation might be "Plug-and-Play? Robin ----- Original Message ----- From: "Rye Gewalt" To: Sent: Sunday, February 25, 2001 3:42 PM Subject: Re: LF: Re: G3NYK/PA0SE-bridges > For the benefit of a poor yank who only speaks one language and wished he could > speak several, what's the literal translation of "steckdose"? I am always > looking for derogatory names for non tinkers and view-grap engineers. I am > soldering iron burns up to my elbows in spite of a (very old) degree in math. > Somehow I like to smell the smoke..... > > Regards > Rye > K9LCJ > Springfield, VA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17506 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2001 21:43:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 25 Feb 2001 21:43:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 364 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2001 21:43:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 25 Feb 2001 21:43:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14X8ir-0005xE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 21:28:53 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.sitestar.net ([205.160.234.10] helo=mail.neocom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14X8iq-0005x9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 21:28:52 +0000 Received: from sitestar.net (reston-gnap-ip-216014-113.dynamic.ziplink.net [216.8.14.113]) by mail.neocom.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1PLSUQ16279 for ; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 16:28:31 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A99797F.A3C3DE77@sitestar.net> Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 16:30:40 -0500 From: "Rye Gewalt" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: View Graph Engineers References: <000701c09dcf$6830e5c0$14b401d5@default> <14WhOa-2CnHRwC@fwd03.sul.t-online.com> <005d01c09f15$48ddd100$a77a74d5@w8k3f0> <3A9927E3.90237721@sitestar.net> <002701c09f52$94d38a40$bc88d13e@f9.net.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: First I have to correct my spelling. It's View Graph, which is a US trade name for the transparent slides that are used in business meeting presentations -- they can be made on a copy machine or a laser printer and are projected onto a screen. View Graph engineers are all talk and aspire to become managers (grin) --- or at least don't want to bother with the dirty hands part of actually making something work. They'd rather just do the "high level" stuff....... Rye Dave Pick wrote: > OK Rye, > > Now we all know what a steckdosen ham is... Could you enlighten me as to > what a "view-grap engineer" is??!! > > 73. Dave G3YXM. > > (certainly is educational, this forum!) > > >I am always > > looking for derogatory names for non tinkers and view-grap engineers. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25989 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2001 21:37:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Feb 2001 21:37:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 16504 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2001 21:37:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 25 Feb 2001 21:37:41 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14X8ct-0005w9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 21:22:43 +0000 Received: from imo-r04.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14X8cs-0005sl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 21:22:42 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-r04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.a0.10908104 (17526) for ; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 16:21:44 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 16:21:44 EST Subject: Re: LF: Re: G3NYK/PA0SE-bridges To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 2/25/01 12:46:41 PM Eastern Standard Time, pick@sniffout.com writes: << Now we all know what a steckdosen ham is... Could you enlighten me as to what a "view-grap engineer" is??!! >> I think that's a typo for "view-graph," and refers to someone who spends his time making overhead projection slides for presentations about technology, rather than working with technology hands-on. Of course, whenever I drive over a bridge, or fly in an airplane, or grasp the case of an appliance that has the potential (no pun intended) to electrocute me, I tend to hope that the device in question wasn't designed by someone whose sole background is tinkering, either.... 73, John From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13225 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2001 20:07:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 25 Feb 2001 20:07:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 8714 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2001 20:07:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 25 Feb 2001 20:07:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14X7Dp-0005OF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 19:52:45 +0000 Received: from lepidachrosite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14X7Do-0005OA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 19:52:44 +0000 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust8.tnt6.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.116.106.8]) by lepidachrosite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 08B37CAFD5 for ; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 19:52:04 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <010401c09f5c$926b7f60$086a74d5@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000701c09dcf$6830e5c0$14b401d5@default> <14WhOa-2CnHRwC@fwd03.sul.t-online.com> <005d01c09f15$48ddd100$a77a74d5@w8k3f0> <3A99141C.A1F1B115@usa.net> Subject: LF: Re: Re: G3NYK/PA0SE-bridges Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 19:38:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To All from PA0SE Alberto, I2PHD, wrote: > Dick, > maybe today I'm a bit denser than the usual. If your RG213 > cable was > terminated on its typical impedance, shouldn't the SWR have been 1:1 ? > The 50 ohm resistor at the end should have entirely absorbed the RF energy > with no reflections. But maybe I misunderstood you. > Thanks for any clarification. I was the dense one! The cable was terminated by a 100 ohm resistor to obtain SWR = 2. 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6825 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2001 19:19:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Feb 2001 19:19:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 14295 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2001 19:19:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Feb 2001 19:19:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14X6T8-00058F-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 19:04:30 +0000 Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14X6T6-000585-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 19:04:29 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.181.119]) by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010225190348.TTXM13669018.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Mon, 26 Feb 2001 08:03:48 +1300 Message-ID: <002801c09f5e$991f9560$77b51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001a01c09e42$95b26320$cb9e74d5@w8k3f0> Subject: LF: Re: Measuring resistance of aerial system Date: Mon, 26 Feb 2001 07:36:57 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Dick PA0SE,
 
Regarding your observed losses being higher in damp conditions:
 
It amazes me that the resistance is lower in summer than in winter. I had expected the opposite.
There are no trees near the aerial.
 
When it rains or in fog the resistance rises considirable, as indicates by the aerial current dropping by up to 25%.
 
Could that be due to water particles being heated in the field around the aerial? Or is it only caused by increased leakage via the aerial insulators and the feed-in? 
 
You could check for leakage on the antenna wire with a "megger".  You may also have induced losses in the wall of your house and loss happens to vary with moisture conditions (could be checked before and after a hosing down).  A possible countermeasure is to increase the spacing of the antenna "upwire" from other objects (which reduces the field strength and induction loss in the other surface?).
 
73, Bob
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2967 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2001 18:56:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 25 Feb 2001 18:56:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 28224 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2001 18:56:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Feb 2001 18:56:34 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14X6GS-00051r-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 18:51:24 +0000 Received: from smtp.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.193.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14X6GR-00051m-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 18:51:23 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from default (p455.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.201.55]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA04261 for ; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 19:51:05 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <200102251851.TAA04261@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 19:51:5 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: SMT-Hell fm G4JNT X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 2/25/01 17:39:00, you wrote: >Going to 0.5Hz wide now 1740z >Andy > Andy.. Perfect copy in 2, 1.2 and 0.5, images are on it's way 73 de Ko, NL9222.. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12770 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2001 18:00:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Feb 2001 18:00:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 8392 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2001 18:00:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Feb 2001 18:00:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14X5F0-0004fA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 17:45:50 +0000 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14X5Ez-0004f5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 17:45:49 +0000 Received: from [212.1.156.13] (helo=g4jnt) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14X4z1-0003vd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 17:29:20 +0000 Message-ID: <001001c09f51$f1456c40$0d9c01d4@g4jnt> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: SMT-Hell fm G4JNT Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 17:39:44 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Going to 0.5Hz wide now 1740z Andy -----Original Message----- From: Ko Versteeg To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 25 February 2001 15:59 Subject: LF: SMT-Hell fm G4JNT >Andy.. >Can you please go more narrow, have a good copy 869.5 / 871.5Hz >hope to have a full call before i leave for work tomorrow :-) >73 de Ko, NL9222 > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11501 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2001 17:48:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Feb 2001 17:48:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 21525 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2001 17:47:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 25 Feb 2001 17:47:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14X5C3-0004b3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 17:42:47 +0000 Received: from [62.209.144.6] (helo=sniffout.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14X5C1-0004ay-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 17:42:46 +0000 Received: from picks ([62.209.142.0]) by sniffout.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.977.9); Sun, 25 Feb 2001 17:42:25 +0000 Message-ID: <002701c09f52$94d38a40$bc88d13e@f9.net.uk> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000701c09dcf$6830e5c0$14b401d5@default> <14WhOa-2CnHRwC@fwd03.sul.t-online.com> <005d01c09f15$48ddd100$a77a74d5@w8k3f0> <3A9927E3.90237721@sitestar.net> Subject: Re: LF: Re: G3NYK/PA0SE-bridges Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 17:44:18 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: OK Rye, Now we all know what a steckdosen ham is... Could you enlighten me as to what a "view-grap engineer" is??!! 73. Dave G3YXM. (certainly is educational, this forum!) >I am always > looking for derogatory names for non tinkers and view-grap engineers. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24470 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2001 16:24:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Feb 2001 16:24:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 14299 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2001 16:24:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Feb 2001 16:24:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14X3jn-00045g-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 16:09:31 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout06.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14X3jm-00045b-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 16:09:30 +0000 Received: from fwd02.sul.t-online.com by mailout06.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14X3jK-0001Z0-07; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 17:09:02 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (087321565-0001@[217.2.41.66]) by fwd02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14X3jF-0zUM3EC; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 17:08:57 +0100 From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000701c09dcf$6830e5c0$14b401d5@default> <14WhOa-2CnHRwC@fwd03.sul.t-online.com> <005d01c09f15$48ddd100$a77a74d5@w8k3f0> <3A9927E3.90237721@sitestar.net> Subject: LF: Re: Steckdosen-Amateur X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 17:08:57 +0100 Message-ID: <14X3jF-0zUM3EC@fwd02.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all, I was also wondering that PA0SE has used this german expression here which, as far as I can recall, had been created already in the sixties. "Steckdose" means wall socket, power point, mains outlet. A "Steckdosenamateur" is the same what in other languages is called an appliance operator or a radio amateur who just wants to "plug and play". OK? Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB Rye Gewalt schrieb: > For the benefit of a poor yank who only speaks one language and wished he > could > speak several, what's the literal translation of "steckdose"? I am always > looking for derogatory names for non tinkers and view-grap engineers. I am > soldering iron burns up to my elbows in spite of a (very old) degree in math. > Somehow I like to smell the smoke..... > > Regards > Rye > K9LCJ > Springfield, VA > > Dick Rollema wrote: > > > Uwe, DJ8WX, wrote: > > > > > Dick, where did you get that Wayne-Kerr-B.601-bridge from ? > > > could one purchase it somewhere? > > > > I have two Wayne Kerr admittance bridges: > > > > Type B601: 15 kHz - 15 MHz > > > > Type B801: 1 MHz - 100 MHz > > > > But my home made noise bridge performs almost as well. I took great care to > > make it frequency independent and succeeded in doing so up to 30 MHz. > > > > I bought the Wayne Kerr bridges for little money in a war surplus shop and > > at a rally of the Dutch Society for the History of Radio. > > You can usually pick up older type of test equipment at rallies at low > > prices because most present day amateurs are of the "Steckdose" type > > and are not at all interested in measuring gear. > > > > I tested my bridges by connecting them to a 3 m long piece of RG213 type 50 > > ohm coax that was terminated by a 50 ohm resistor (actually two 100 ohm > > resistors in parallel). That produces a standing wave ratio of 2 in the > > cable. The impedance at the input of the cable was measured at a range of > > frequencies up to 30 MHz. When the results are plotted on a RX-diagram they > > must lie on a circle; the one for SWR = 2. For the Wayne Kerr bridges this > > was indeed the case. But the deviation from the circle was also very small > > for my home made bridge. Only 30 MHz near the measured impedances tended to > > lie inside the circle for all three bridges. This was caused by the loss in > > the coax that made the SWR < 2 at the input of the cable. > > > > > BTW.Dick, I just answered ur cq on 136 kHz. sri u did not hear my signal. > > u > > > where 559 in j043sv (ant: inverted V with 340m es 400m lws). > > > > A pity I did not hear you. Perhaps some other time? > > > > 73, Dick, PA0SE > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21301 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2001 15:59:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 25 Feb 2001 15:59:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 21140 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2001 15:59:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Feb 2001 15:59:12 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14X3U3-0003y9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 15:53:15 +0000 Received: from smtp.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.193.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14X3Tz-0003y2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 15:53:12 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from default (p0803.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.202.40]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA05137 for ; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 16:52:51 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <200102251552.QAA05137@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 16:52:51 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: SMT-Hell fm G4JNT X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andy.. Can you please go more narrow, have a good copy 869.5 / 871.5Hz hope to have a full call before i leave for work tomorrow :-) 73 de Ko, NL9222 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25877 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2001 15:51:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Feb 2001 15:51:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 4481 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2001 15:51:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Feb 2001 15:51:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14X3IC-0003tF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 15:41:00 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.sitestar.net ([205.160.234.10] helo=mail.neocom.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14X3I7-0003tA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 15:40:57 +0000 Received: from sitestar.net (reston-gnap-ip-216012-88.dynamic.ziplink.net [216.8.12.88]) by mail.neocom.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1PFeIQ27720 for ; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 10:40:18 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A9927E3.90237721@sitestar.net> Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 10:42:27 -0500 From: "Rye Gewalt" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.75 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: G3NYK/PA0SE-bridges References: <000701c09dcf$6830e5c0$14b401d5@default> <14WhOa-2CnHRwC@fwd03.sul.t-online.com> <005d01c09f15$48ddd100$a77a74d5@w8k3f0> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: For the benefit of a poor yank who only speaks one language and wished he could speak several, what's the literal translation of "steckdose"? I am always looking for derogatory names for non tinkers and view-grap engineers. I am soldering iron burns up to my elbows in spite of a (very old) degree in math. Somehow I like to smell the smoke..... Regards Rye K9LCJ Springfield, VA Dick Rollema wrote: > Uwe, DJ8WX, wrote: > > > Dick, where did you get that Wayne-Kerr-B.601-bridge from ? > > could one purchase it somewhere? > > I have two Wayne Kerr admittance bridges: > > Type B601: 15 kHz - 15 MHz > > Type B801: 1 MHz - 100 MHz > > But my home made noise bridge performs almost as well. I took great care to > make it frequency independent and succeeded in doing so up to 30 MHz. > > I bought the Wayne Kerr bridges for little money in a war surplus shop and > at a rally of the Dutch Society for the History of Radio. > You can usually pick up older type of test equipment at rallies at low > prices because most present day amateurs are of the "Steckdose" type > and are not at all interested in measuring gear. > > I tested my bridges by connecting them to a 3 m long piece of RG213 type 50 > ohm coax that was terminated by a 50 ohm resistor (actually two 100 ohm > resistors in parallel). That produces a standing wave ratio of 2 in the > cable. The impedance at the input of the cable was measured at a range of > frequencies up to 30 MHz. When the results are plotted on a RX-diagram they > must lie on a circle; the one for SWR = 2. For the Wayne Kerr bridges this > was indeed the case. But the deviation from the circle was also very small > for my home made bridge. Only 30 MHz near the measured impedances tended to > lie inside the circle for all three bridges. This was caused by the loss in > the coax that made the SWR < 2 at the input of the cable. > > > BTW.Dick, I just answered ur cq on 136 kHz. sri u did not hear my signal. > u > > where 559 in j043sv (ant: inverted V with 340m es 400m lws). > > A pity I did not hear you. Perhaps some other time? > > 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21825 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2001 14:35:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 25 Feb 2001 14:35:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 26306 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2001 14:35:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 25 Feb 2001 14:35:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14X21y-0003P7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 14:20:10 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from d06lmsgate-2.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14X21v-0003Of-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 14:20:07 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.147]) by d06lmsgate-2.uk.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id OAA19950 for ; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 14:04:31 GMT Received: from usa.net (ss9.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.75]) by d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id OAA104598 for ; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 14:19:12 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A99141C.A1F1B115@usa.net> Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 15:18:04 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: G3NYK/PA0SE-bridges References: <000701c09dcf$6830e5c0$14b401d5@default> <14WhOa-2CnHRwC@fwd03.sul.t-online.com> <005d01c09f15$48ddd100$a77a74d5@w8k3f0> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dick Rollema wrote: > [snip] > I tested my bridges by connecting them to a 3 m long piece of RG213 type 50 > ohm coax that was terminated by a 50 ohm resistor (actually two 100 ohm > resistors in parallel). That produces a standing wave ratio of 2 in the > cable. Dick, maybe today I'm a bit denser than the usual. If your RG213 cable was terminated on its typical impedance, shouldn't the SWR have been 1:1 ? The 50 ohm resistor at the end should have entirely absorbed the RF energy with no reflections. But maybe I misunderstood you. Thanks for any clarification. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22197 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2001 11:38:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 25 Feb 2001 11:38:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 27907 invoked from network); 25 Feb 2001 11:38:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 25 Feb 2001 11:38:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WzG2-0002Vd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 11:22:30 +0000 Received: from ulexite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WzG1-0002VY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 11:22:29 +0000 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust167.tnt14.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.116.122.167]) by ulexite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 3189FFAF31 for ; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 10:21:25 -0100 (GMT) Message-ID: <005d01c09f15$48ddd100$a77a74d5@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000701c09dcf$6830e5c0$14b401d5@default> <14WhOa-2CnHRwC@fwd03.sul.t-online.com> Subject: LF: Re: G3NYK/PA0SE-bridges Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 11:22:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Uwe, DJ8WX, wrote: > Dick, where did you get that Wayne-Kerr-B.601-bridge from ? > could one purchase it somewhere? I have two Wayne Kerr admittance bridges: Type B601: 15 kHz - 15 MHz Type B801: 1 MHz - 100 MHz But my home made noise bridge performs almost as well. I took great care to make it frequency independent and succeeded in doing so up to 30 MHz. I bought the Wayne Kerr bridges for little money in a war surplus shop and at a rally of the Dutch Society for the History of Radio. You can usually pick up older type of test equipment at rallies at low prices because most present day amateurs are of the "Steckdose" type and are not at all interested in measuring gear. I tested my bridges by connecting them to a 3 m long piece of RG213 type 50 ohm coax that was terminated by a 50 ohm resistor (actually two 100 ohm resistors in parallel). That produces a standing wave ratio of 2 in the cable. The impedance at the input of the cable was measured at a range of frequencies up to 30 MHz. When the results are plotted on a RX-diagram they must lie on a circle; the one for SWR = 2. For the Wayne Kerr bridges this was indeed the case. But the deviation from the circle was also very small for my home made bridge. Only 30 MHz near the measured impedances tended to lie inside the circle for all three bridges. This was caused by the loss in the coax that made the SWR < 2 at the input of the cable. > BTW.Dick, I just answered ur cq on 136 kHz. sri u did not hear my signal. u > where 559 in j043sv (ant: inverted V with 340m es 400m lws). A pity I did not hear you. Perhaps some other time? 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1657 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 18:53:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 18:53:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 11034 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 18:53:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 18:53:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WjZ1-0005bQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 18:37:03 +0000 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WjZ0-0005bL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 18:37:02 +0000 Received: from [212.1.141.73] (helo=g4jnt) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Wj0N-00065u-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 18:01:16 +0000 Message-ID: <000e01c09e8d$4a409e20$498d01d4@g4jnt> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: SMT-Hell Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 18:11:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Tnx for the report. I was playing about with the settings looking for suitable sets of frequency span / pixel intervals for Argo, and decided to leave it going at high power as conditions seemed quiet on the band. It looks as if Argo on 3s dots is best suited for 20Hz span 0.15s pixel interval. On the 10s dot setting 5Hz span and 0.7s pixels look about right. Didn't try any slower modes as I didn't want to spend the whole evening playing with it ! Haven't implemented the semaphore font yet. Andy G4JNT >15:50z, Good copy on your 5Hz SMtHell around 137770. >16:00, someone's tvset ruined the fun once again :-( > >73 de Ko, NL9222.. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26510 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 18:14:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 18:14:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 4524 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 18:14:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 18:14:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Wj6y-0005Qw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 18:08:04 +0000 Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Wj6w-0005Qr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 18:08:03 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.181.114]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010224180713.PIXU15770362.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Sun, 25 Feb 2001 07:07:13 +1300 Message-ID: <002b01c09e8d$8775de40$72b51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7583.200102231227@gemini> Subject: LF: Re: Antennas/ERP Date: Sun, 25 Feb 2001 07:12:56 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jim M0BMU, Some further comments on selected points: > I am confident that there was a slight increase in FS, and that it was > near 0.9dB > A decrease in current from 2.7 to 2.2A would result in FS > decreasing by 1.8dB if the antenna remained the same. So overall, > there was an improvement of 2.7dB from the radiating point of > view, although offset by increased losses, apparently. That is a good presentation, to summarise: impact of the top loading coil on new current distribution +2.7 dB impact of the higher losses in that loading coil -1.8 dB net result for that setup +0.9 dB > What ZL2CA says about increasing TX power to make up for > reduced antenna efficiency is only true up to a point, as some of > us have found already. There comes a point where the voltage on > an antenna becomes so high that breakdown occurs. Since for a > given antenna, the voltage is directly proportional to the current, > this places an upper limit on the ERP for a given antenna. What ZL2CA would reply to that point is to find better insulators. They too are far cheaper than managing the overheads of an elevated loading coil. > By the way, I find that the loss resistance of the antennas I have > used tends to increase by a factor of 2 or 3 when frequency is > reduced from 136k to 73k - in indirect support of Rik's idea about > ground loss being reduced at increased frequency. I too found that trend. Results of impedance measurements of an earlier vertical at my QTH appear in Table 8 of the LowFer section of the 18th edition of The ARRL Antenna Book, which is: Frequency Resistance Capacitance 100 kHz 14 ohms 790 pF 165 11 800 190 10 805 250 9 810 300 8 815 The capacitance increase is expected, from the transmission line effect as antenna becomes an increasing fraction of a wavelength with increasing frequency (a hyperbolic tangent function if I recall correctly). However, the increase in series resistance is an enigma. My current thinking is that it is better to express the impedance in parallel components rather than series i.e. admittance rather than impedance. The antenna environment of a top loaded T does physically involve equivalent parallel RC in the "foot print". I'm soon departing to do some shifts on a field day contest so I can not develop comment on parallel rather than series analysis in this posting. Cheers for now, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25345 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 16:36:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 16:36:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 1582 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 16:36:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 16:36:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WhQp-0004oW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 16:20:27 +0000 Received: from smtp.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.193.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WhQp-0004oR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 16:20:27 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from default (p0973.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.202.210]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id RAA16031 for ; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 17:20:08 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <200102241620.RAA16031@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 17:20:9 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: MT-Hell X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Andy.. 15:50z, Good copy on your 5hz MtHell around 137770. 16:00, someone's tvset ruined the fun once again :-( 73 de Ko, NL9222.. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24147 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 16:34:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 16:34:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 28371 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 16:34:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 16:34:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WhP5-0004o0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 16:18:39 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout05.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WhP4-0004nv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 16:18:38 +0000 Received: from fwd03.sul.t-online.com by mailout05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14WhOc-0002AY-09; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 17:18:10 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.227.109.73]) by fwd03.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14WhOa-2CnHRwC; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 17:18:08 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000701c09dcf$6830e5c0$14b401d5@default> Subject: LF: G3NYK/PA0SE-bridges X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 17:18:08 +0100 Message-ID: <14WhOa-2CnHRwC@fwd03.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alan Melia schrieb: >......... I used a Hatfield LE300/A RF bridge. The bridge was zeroed and the >balance was achieved with the aerial,......... > Cheers de Alan G3NYK > Alan.Melia@btinternet.com Hi Alan, Hi Dick, I`m testing lf-antennas since two years using a homebrew-bridge. I do not trust the measuring-results achieved with that bridge. changing the symetric components (L) several times I still fiel it is cross-eyed (as we would say in germany). Alan, where did you get that Hatfield-LE300/A-RF-bridge from ? Dick, where did you get that Wayne-Kerr-B.601-bridge from ? could one purchase it somewhere? BTW.Dick, I just answered ur cq on 136 kHz. sri u did not hear my signal. u where 559 in j043sv (ant: inverted V with 340m es 400m lws). regards Uwe/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11552 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 16:21:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 16:21:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 29621 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 16:21:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 16:21:53 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WhLY-0004nn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 16:15:00 +0000 Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.35]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WhLX-0004ni-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 16:14:59 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.7b.10ad11b4 (18715) for ; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 11:14:07 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <7b.10ad11b4.27c937ce@aol.com> Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 11:14:06 EST Subject: LF: Re: Hand speed morse on 137.7 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 70 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Brian, > At about 1115utc I was checking e-mail when I heard hand speed > morse on the computer loud speaker which was idling on Argo, > receiver on narrow band tuned to 137.7KHz. I copied a few letters > but no call sign. Does anybody want to put in a claim? > > 73, Brian Interesting... from 10:40 to 11:30 G3XDV and I had an enjoyable QSO spot on 137.7, Mike using 3s qrss and me (3+1)s dfcw. Mike was quite audible here, but I didn't see anybody else on qrg. Maybe you do have a neighbour after all :-) 73 de Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18380 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 12:14:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 12:14:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 14077 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 12:14:01 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 12:14:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WdPv-0003Nt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 12:03:15 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from dargolad.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.27]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WdPr-0003No-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 12:03:12 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ea.esoterica.pt (ea.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.204]) by dargolad.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1OC2qs14674 for ; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 12:02:52 GMT Received: from slave2 (por338.esoterica.pt [195.22.18.38]) by ea.esoterica.pt (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA15197 for ; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 12:02:51 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010224120248.007a09a0@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 12:02:48 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: LF: Hand speed morse on 137.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At about 1115utc I was checking e-mail when I heard hand speed morse on the computer loud speaker which was idling on Argo, receiver on narrow band tuned to 137.7KHz. I copied a few letters but no call sign. Does anybody want to put in a claim? 73, Brian 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1338 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 11:28:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 11:28:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 23349 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 11:28:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 11:28:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WcmP-00037e-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 11:22:25 +0000 Received: from latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.40]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WcmG-00037Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 11:22:16 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-2-62.easynet.co.uk [195.40.196.62]) by latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 2A64E53939 for ; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 11:21:58 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000e01c09e54$86ee9cc0$3ec428c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: LF digest Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 11:01:28 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks to you all for all the feedback - most encouraging so I will press on Claudio said: > I'm using Netscape 4.61 and Linux. Components annotations are not clear on the > crt and on the hardcopy also (laser printer). I suggest you to put diagrams on > white background. I haven't used any colour at all (except on the first intro page). Its all in boring black and white! Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14635 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 10:22:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 10:22:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 18781 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 10:22:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 10:22:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WbiS-0002ib-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 10:14:16 +0000 Received: from lepidachrosite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WbiR-0002iU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 10:14:15 +0000 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust203.tnt32.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.116.158.203]) by lepidachrosite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id DCC1BCAE68 for ; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 10:13:36 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <001801c09e42$944a47a0$cb9e74d5@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000901c09de2$eb58a9c0$85ca28c3@ericadodd> Subject: LF: Re: LF digest Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 08:42:46 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- Van: g3ldo Aan: Verzonden: vrijdag 23 februari 2001 22:51 Onderwerp: LF: LF digest > I have made a start on the digest of technical material on the e-mail > reflector. This first bit concerns active antennas (the one of the Decca > antenna amp kindly redrawn by John, G4CNN). > I would be interested on hearing how the diagrams come out on the various > browsers - every one I try makes the page look different. > I am a newcomer to this business so advice readily accepted. > > The web page is http://web.ukonline.co.uk/g3ldo/ > > Regards, > Peter, G3LDO > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2261 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 10:19:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 10:19:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 14660 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 10:19:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 10:19:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WbiV-0002in-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 10:14:19 +0000 Received: from lepidachrosite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WbiU-0002ii-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 10:14:18 +0000 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust203.tnt32.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.116.158.203]) by lepidachrosite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 464D9CAE68 for ; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 10:13:39 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <001a01c09e42$95b26320$cb9e74d5@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Measuring resistance of aerial system Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 10:12:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
To All from PA0SE
 
To measure the total resistance of my aerial system I can use a Wayne Kerr admittance bridge type B.601. To do that the bridge must be connected to a generator and detector.
A method involving less work is using my homemade impedance bridge with built-in noise source and battery and using the 137kHz receiver as detector. This gadget measures R up to 270 ohms and X as a capacitance between -150pF and +150pF in parallel with the R-control. On 137kHz the X-control range is too small and I leave it at the zero position. The null is found by varying the R-control of the bridge and the vacuum capacitor tuning the aerial system. The null is very sharp when the receiver is switched to a narrow passband.
The calibration marks on the R-control are at multiples of 10 ohm. But the R-value can be read with much better accuracy by afterwards measuring the resistance of the R-control pot with a digital multimeter. There is no need to open the box of the bridge for this; the resistance can be measured at the port for the unknown.
 
After subtracting the loss resistance of the loading coil I find for the earth resistance:
 
July 1999          : 28 ohm
February 2000:  33 ohm
February 2001:  32 ohm
 
Summer 2000 I have measured even lower values but I did not put them on paper.
 
It amazes me that the resistance is lower in summer than in winter. I had expected the opposite.
There are no trees near the aerial.
 
When it rains or in fog the resistance rises considirable, as indicates by the aerial current dropping by up to 25%.
 
Could that be due to water particles being heated in the field around the aerial? Or is it only caused by increased leakage via the aerial insulators and the feed-in? 
 
73, Dick, PA0SE 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12212 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 10:19:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 10:19:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 14334 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 10:19:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 10:19:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WbiT-0002ig-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 10:14:17 +0000 Received: from lepidachrosite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WbiS-0002iZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 10:14:16 +0000 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust203.tnt32.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.116.158.203]) by lepidachrosite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 13734CAF00 for ; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 10:13:38 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <001901c09e42$94f9c180$cb9e74d5@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000901c09de2$eb58a9c0$85ca28c3@ericadodd> Subject: LF: Re: LF digest Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 08:44:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Peter, The diagrams look fine using Internet Explorer. They appear on a white background. Thanks for a fb initiative! 73, Dick, PA0SE ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- Van: g3ldo Aan: Verzonden: vrijdag 23 februari 2001 22:51 Onderwerp: LF: LF digest > I have made a start on the digest of technical material on the e-mail > reflector. This first bit concerns active antennas (the one of the Decca > antenna amp kindly redrawn by John, G4CNN). > I would be interested on hearing how the diagrams come out on the various > browsers - every one I try makes the page look different. > I am a newcomer to this business so advice readily accepted. > > The web page is http://web.ukonline.co.uk/g3ldo/ > > Regards, > Peter, G3LDO > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13720 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 09:05:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 09:05:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 24203 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 09:05:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 09:05:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WaXk-0002GH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 08:59:08 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [194.200.20.13] (helo=mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WaXj-0002FD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 08:59:07 +0000 Received: from userbf13.netscapeonline.co.uk ([62.125.140.35] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 14WaT0-0005bv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 08:54:14 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A977794.CF0EB6C9@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 08:57:56 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: TransAtlantic QSO References: <8032025.982581239518.JavaMail.imail@bronty> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: john sexton wrote: > Hi Larry, > Hearty Congratulations to you both. Hurray! The corks are flying here. > Yes I did see your transmission. It first appeared around 22.30 and faded > out around 00.10 and nothing more seen for the rest of the night. It read "C > O E E L KR O", with no space between the K and the R. Since I wasn't quite > sure, I left Argo running and recording and went to bed, expecting that it > would be seen again after 04.00. So this morning I checked the results and > there was only that bit up to midnight. Then checked the E-mails and the > rest is history. Do not believe everything you read on e-mail. > > Yes I am ready tonight for BPSK, BUT I still need the ability to record the > output. I can't stay up all night every night. > It's funny you should mention the problem with reading clocks during the > night - I suffer from exactly the same problem, hi! Fortunately Galina, the > XYL, doesn't. Must be a male thing, hi! > I saw that query from W land yesterday and decided to keep quiet, so no > problem. > > Well once again, Very Well Done guys! That's one in the eye for Big KEV, hi! I think you haved jumped the gun AGAIN - it could be one in the EYE for you !!!!!!!!!!!!!! Another FALSE alarm from g4cnn, any more rumours up your sleeve?????? How can you be takes seriously !!!!!!! > 73, John > > _______________________________________________________ > Send a cool gift with your E-Card > http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11394 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 08:26:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 08:26:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 21885 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 08:26:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 08:26:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WZwC-00023a-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 08:20:20 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout02.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.17]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WZw5-00023V-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 08:20:13 +0000 Received: from fwd04.sul.t-online.com by mailout02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14WZvi-0001QI-06; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 09:19:50 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0607144537-0001@[62.224.86.5]) by fwd04.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14WZvd-2IR3eyC; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 09:19:45 +0100 From: "bernd grupe" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE:digest X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 09:19:45 +0100 Message-ID: <14WZvd-2IR3eyC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0607144537-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Peter, Claudio wrote: >Components annotations are not clear on the >crt and on the hardcopy also (laser printer). I suggest you to put diagrams on >white background. Yes, it's the same problem with IE 5.5. But I know how hard it is to get sharp and clear drawings with pixel-formats or converted into internet-graphics-formats like .jpg or .gif. To implement the graphics with the acrobat-compiler might be a suitable solution as far as I know. Anyway, thanks for starting a great idea going this way for discussion of technical issues. vy 73 Bernd,DF8ZR From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8461 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 07:30:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 07:30:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 4863 invoked from network); 24 Feb 2001 07:30:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 24 Feb 2001 07:30:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WZ3z-0001jD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 07:24:19 +0000 Received: from hs-img-2.compuserve.com ([149.174.177.151] helo=sphmgaab.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WZ3v-0001j8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 07:24:15 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by sphmgaab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id CAA04957 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 24 Feb 2001 02:23:48 -0500 (EST) Date: Sat, 24 Feb 2001 02:23:21 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: TECH: "WOLF" anyone in EU? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200102240223_MC2-C699-3F28@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LF Group, after the great successes with QRSS, US Lowfers now are experimenting with a new binary mode called "WOLF" (Weak-signal Operation on Low Frequency). The inventor and author of a small program, Stewart KK7KA claims an advantage of approx- 6 dB over QRSS. More info can be found at http://www.scgroup.com/ham/wolf.html Has anyone looked into that mode here in Europe yet? KK7KA has written a small DOS based program (versinn 0.31) that allows to create a test WAV file that can be then transmitted through an SSB transmitter. It is also possible to use the serial port to key a PSK transmitter directly. Steward hopes to have a direct QSO-mode program available in two weeks. Has anyone looked into that mode here in Europe yet? I would be able to run some tests using this mode. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29775 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 22:19:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 22:19:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 28161 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 22:19:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 22:19:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WQS2-00074g-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 22:12:34 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [194.73.73.138] (helo=ruthenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WQS1-00074a-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 22:12:33 +0000 Received: from [62.7.60.11] (helo=host62-7-60-11.btinternet.com) by ruthenium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14WQRk-0000DP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 22:12:16 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Nick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: LF digest Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 22:11:14 +0000 Message-ID: References: <000901c09de2$eb58a9c0$85ca28c3@ericadodd> In-reply-to: <000901c09de2$eb58a9c0$85ca28c3@ericadodd> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On Fri, 23 Feb 2001 21:51:39 -0000, you wrote: > >I would be interested on hearing how the diagrams come out on the various >browsers - every one I try makes the page look different. Looks OK here in Netscape 3 Nick From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7956 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 21:54:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 21:54:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 27786 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 21:54:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 21:54:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WQ5K-0006we-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 21:49:06 +0000 Received: from latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.40]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WQ5J-0006wZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 21:49:05 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-3-133.easynet.co.uk [195.40.202.133]) by latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id B1EF3536D8 for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 21:48:44 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000901c09de2$eb58a9c0$85ca28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: LF digest Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 21:51:39 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have made a start on the digest of technical material on the e-mail reflector. This first bit concerns active antennas (the one of the Decca antenna amp kindly redrawn by John, G4CNN). I would be interested on hearing how the diagrams come out on the various browsers - every one I try makes the page look different. I am a newcomer to this business so advice readily accepted. The web page is http://web.ukonline.co.uk/g3ldo/ Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19836 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 19:49:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 19:49:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 20800 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 19:49:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 19:49:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WO0e-0006Bp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 19:36:08 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WO0a-0006Bk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 19:36:05 +0000 Received: from [213.1.180.20] (helo=default) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14WO0J-00037l-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 19:35:47 +0000 Message-ID: <000701c09dcf$6830e5c0$14b401d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Brian's aerial system losses Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:09:52 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, I was quite interested in Brian's measuremnets on his aerial as have have seen some similar 'effects'. Making these measurements is not easy and some precautions are necessary. Brian does not say what his noise bridge is, but there are several very different versions of this useful device. The simplest has only resistive balance. This will only yield the correct value if the aerial impedance is exactly resistive. Any residual reactance even due to the bridge connections can cause errors. The connection of ground or earth connections can be one problem area, as it was with my measurements. I have several different wires in the grounding region and I originally wanted to check whether the losses varied with different earthing regimes (mains earth only, a single 1.5metre by 20mm diam copper pipe, a 70m counterpoise earthed at the remote end.) I used a Hatfield LE300/A RF bridge. The bridge was zeroed and the balance was achieved with the aerial, then the different 'earthing regimes were connected in turn. To my surprise the plain mains earth gave the best result with other connections increasing the loss component. After a little head scratching I went back to try to repeat the measurements very carefully. I found that were I had gone wrong was I should have zeroed the bridge for each different earthing regime, before measuring the aerial. When I did this I found I got the expected result with the losses decreasing with each extra component of the earthing regime connected. The value dropping from 120ohms to 70ohms with all connected. (after making the calculation to convert the parallel arrangement of the LE300 to the normal series R-C connection) I also found that I needed to run a considerable voltage into the bridge to get a good relative null depth, and stability.(2.5 to 4v rms from the Wayne Kerr SD286) I hope I didn't make too much QRM.... Hi. I did not listen on the detector but I expect that big commercial signals being picked could distort the null. The noise bridge uses a receiver, so has selective detector, but I still wonder what the effect of 'received power' is on the position of the null. I suppose one way would be to plot a series of measurements across the band. The null on the LE300 was quite deep and narrow and very sensitive to the reactance setting. There is no doubt that Brian's aerial works well and he is putting out a good signal. One the same topic, Rik muses as to whether ground losses are frequency dependent, I think from the data from John on the Earth Wireless web site, it almost certainly is. As a final 'contentious point' I believe that the final article (Appendix 1, from 1922!) in the new LF handbook supports Laurie's contentions about the effect of the geometry of extra top-load on losses over poor ground. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13102 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 18:07:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 18:07:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 16964 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 18:07:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 18:07:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WMTY-0005Yq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 17:57:52 +0000 Received: from imo-r13.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.67]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WMTT-0005Yf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 17:57:47 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-r13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.23.7ce7177 (4329) for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:56:50 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <23.7ce7177.27c7fe61@aol.com> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:56:49 EST Subject: Re: LF: RE: ANTS: Higher L - higher ERP To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 2/23/01 3:30:21 AM Eastern Standard Time, rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be writes: << I believe that the 'basic rule' with an elevated loading coil is that the current remains constant from the bottom end (feeding point) up to the coil and will drop linear from the coil toward the end of the antenna. So if you have the coil at the top of the vertical section you will get a constant current over this section, the same that you would get with a infinite topload (that is Andy's theory in other words ..) >> That's a true enough rule of thumb, as far as it goes, but I'm doubtful of the "infinite topload" part. We're talking about electrically very short antennae with top loading by means of inverted-L or T configurations, or other tophat capacitance sections. The taper of the current distribution need not be all that significant to begin with, depending on the size of the top load section. The key point is, with the systems many experimenters appear to be using, it's not enough by itself to account for the dramatic apparent difference in performance when one elevates the loading coil. (In addition, even though you can resonate a system that has very small top capacitance and achieve a more constant current, the L/C ratio precludes the current from being the same as if it were a physically large top load. No free lunch, in other words.) You were perceptive in catching the current discrepancy. I neglected to caution that my current readings were relative, not calibrated. The "instrument" (it's a bit grandiose to call it that) was a toroid core transformer with a rectifier and DC microammeter that had at originally been calibrated at 50kHz. I believe it had to be overstating the current significantly, for I am certainly not one of the fortunate LowFERs who lives atop open patches of 30milliSiemens/m soil either. My best grounding efforts here have barely approached 90 ohms, so far as I can measure with a semi-accurate homebuilt impedance bridge. With 12v and 83ma into the final, 100ma or less would be the maximum likely current if the meter had been correct for absolute values. It did track well with changes to the collector voltage of the final, however, so I believe it was reasonably linear over the part of the scale where it was being used. Still, I'd love to see a reading in the multiple ampere range and to know it was real! 73, John From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4090 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 16:43:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 16:43:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 12627 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 16:43:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 16:43:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WLBV-00056T-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 16:35:09 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from firewall.dii.unisi.it ([193.205.7.2] ident=postfix) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WLBT-00056O-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 16:35:08 +0000 Received: from alpha.dii.unisi.it (alpha.dii.unisi.it [10.1.0.1]) by firewall.dii.unisi.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id A4AC03C448 for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 17:32:57 +0100 (CET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from mailsrv.dii.unisi.it (pcfasec.dii.unisi.it [10.6.9.1]) by alpha.dii.unisi.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id D7BCF1829C for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 18:45:57 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3A9691B5.5D36567D@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 17:37:09 +0100 From: "Valerio Gabbani" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Antennas/ERP References: <7583.200102231227@gemini> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz wrote: > ......There comes a point where the voltage on > an antenna becomes so high that breakdown occurs. Since for a > given antenna, the voltage is directly proportional to the current, > this places an upper limit on the ERP for a given antenna. > > I have just tried it increasing power to 2 kW . The results are two ceramic insulators perforated and two wire of a 4mm diameter iron cord melted. OK i can increase antenna insulation but I worry about what could happen if anyone touch the antenna wire when i'm transmitting at full power. '73, Valerio (IK5ZPV) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27084 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 14:13:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 14:13:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 19747 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 14:13:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 14:13:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WImv-0004Aw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:01:37 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WImt-0004Aq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:01:36 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:48:38 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:48:36 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Antennas/ERP Message-ID: <3A966A34.20886.B598D6@localhost> In-reply-to: <7583.200102231227@gemini> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On 23 Feb 2001, at 12:32, James Moritz wrote: > A decrease in current from 2.7 to 2.2A would result in FS > decreasing by 1.8dB if the antenna remained the same. So overall, > there was an improvement of 2.7dB from the radiating point of > view, although offset by increased losses, apparently. If ways > could be found of reducing these added losses in a practical way, > this would be a significant improvement in LF antenna technique. My next plan is to take my 'old' low-loss Litz wound 3mH top loading coil and insert some ferrite into it so that the L is increased to the 7mH required for self-resonance. The tricky bit will be getting the right type of ferrite, so that it has low loss and light weight. Any ideas? The coil I have now at the top of the mast was increased to 11mH by adding quite a small amount of ferrite made up from bits of pot cores used for audio filters, so I know it can be done. These bits of ferrite were used when operating on 73kHz and got very slightly warm with 200W RF. As for using increased RF power as an alternative to improving the antenna, this is a matter of choice, but I prefer to do both as it will take a huge amount of power to get me close to 1W with my relatively small antenna (700W RF to get 140mW ERP = a gain of about minus 37dB). Even with my present top loading I still need to run 5kW to exceed 1W ERP. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5203 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 13:28:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 13:28:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 15975 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 13:28:50 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 13:28:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WI3e-0003ot-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:14:50 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WI3d-0003oo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 13:14:49 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA23980 for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:14:23 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010223141415.2e5f9d28@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 14:14:15 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: RE: ANTS: Higher L - higher ERP In-reply-to: <3.0.5.32.20010223113402.007fc3b0@pop3.esoterica.pt> References: <3.0.1.16.20010223092035.2dbf56a4@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <13.11cddc6c.27c7273c@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Brian, thanks for the description of your antenna system. >all constructed in 2.5mm aluminium wire. >I think you wrote a little note on alumium wire. Alumium can be a valid alternative for copper. The specific reststance is abt. 1.75 times that of copper, but the skindepth (at 136kHz) is 0.24mm for Al while only 0.17mm for Cu. So if the diamter of your wire much more than twice the skindepht (as it is for a 2.5mm wire), Alumium will be only 25% worse than Cu while its weight is only 30% compared to copper. >Under these conditions I measured the feed point resistance in the region >of 140 to 150 ohms using a noise bridge and managed about 0.8-0.9A aerial >current using the appropriate tapping on the matching transformer. The >output of the tx was 200V peak to peak or about 100W. Ignoring cable >losses R=100/(0.85)^2=138ohms and there is rough confirmation between >the measurements. This seems acceptable if you have many trees close to the antenna. I have several 100 trees in a range of 30m arround my antenna, loss resistance varies from 100 Ohm in winter (strong frost) to 140 Ohm in summer. >The new measurement for feedpoint resistance is around 70ohms with a very >wide flat minima on the noise bridge. The tx is now one module of the >Decca with 54v ht and 8A or 432W input when transmitting. I measured >400W into a 50ohm dummy load so efficiency is 92.6%! The best match >on the matching transformer is between 40 and 50ohms. Aerial current >is now 3A so R=400/(3)^2=44ohm and there is a big difference between >noise bridge and power measurement. I have some doubts about measuring a big antenna with a (low power) noise bridge. The antenna voltage (just picking up QRN and strong broadcast) can be so high that it 'overrules' the noise from the bridge. I tried low power measurments in the past (with a signal generator, not a noise source) and found that I needed at least 5V generator voltage (+/- 0.5 Watt) to get good results. Based on the height (23m) and topload (40m) the theoretical radiation resistance of your antenna is +/- 0.115 Ohm, so with 3A antennacurrent you will be close to 1 Watt ERP. But measurements have shown that in many cases the real ERP is 3 to 6dB below the calculated, so an ERP in the range of 250 to 500mW is more likely. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13786 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 12:35:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 12:35:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 10565 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 12:35:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 12:35:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WHKQ-0003WI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:28:06 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WHKP-0003WD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:28:05 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14WHK7-0004AH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:27:47 +0000 Message-ID: <7583.200102231227@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 12:32:09 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Antennas/ERP X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, First, the measurements on G3XDV's antenna - The SNR in a 25Hz measuring bandwidth and 9.3km distance was probably about 50dB, so noise was not really an issue. I checked the calibration by an independent method after each measurement. So I am confident that there was a slight increase in FS, and that it was near 0.9dB A decrease in current from 2.7 to 2.2A would result in FS decreasing by 1.8dB if the antenna remained the same. So overall, there was an improvement of 2.7dB from the radiating point of view, although offset by increased losses, apparently. If ways could be found of reducing these added losses in a practical way, this would be a significant improvement in LF antenna technique. What ZL2CA says about increasing TX power to make up for reduced antenna efficiency is only true up to a point, as some of us have found already. There comes a point where the voltage on an antenna becomes so high that breakdown occurs. Since for a given antenna, the voltage is directly proportional to the current, this places an upper limit on the ERP for a given antenna. Once this limit is reached, there are two ways to go - one is to increase the effective height of the antenna, and so obtain more radiation for a similar current/voltage, the other is to reduce the voltage by adding more top loading, basically increasing it's area (or footprint, as G3AQC would say). Doing either of these things also tends to reduce the losses, reducing the power required in the first place. So the size of the antenna restricts both the power that can be put into it, and the efficiency of radiation from it, so placing a definite upper limit on ERP. Most of us are not lucky enough to be able to change the height or area occupied by our antennas at will, so maximising the ERP of our stations depends on finding the best compromise between antenna configuration, and transmitter power with the volume of space we have available. Since our circumstances are all different, the best compromise is likely to be different too. By the way, I find that the loss resistance of the antennas I have used tends to increase by a factor of 2 or 3 when frequency is reduced from 136k to 73k - in indirect support of Rik's idea about ground loss being reduced at increased frequency. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22294 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 11:47:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 11:47:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 8134 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 11:47:33 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 11:47:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WGVi-0003Ez-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:35:42 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from dargolad.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.27]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WGVg-0003Eu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:35:41 +0000 Received: from ea.esoterica.pt (ea.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.204]) by dargolad.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1NBZLs25043 for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:35:21 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from slave2 (por081.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.81]) by ea.esoterica.pt (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA14936 for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:35:19 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010223113402.007fc3b0@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 11:34:02 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: RE: ANTS: Higher L - higher ERP In-reply-to: <3.0.1.16.20010223092035.2dbf56a4@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <13.11cddc6c.27c7273c@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Rik, I have been following the folklore around antennas since I joined the reflector and have many printed out and and in a folder. I am currently trying to make sense of my own situation. My antenna is a conventional Marconi T, very similar to the ones I see at the Portuguese Naval Radio station which I pass quite frequently. With 23m overall height, the top is an 80m folded dipole and the vertical is a 300ohm quad transmission line, all constructed in 2.5mm aluminium wire. I think you wrote a little note on alumium wire. Unfortunately I have many trees and the vertical was shaddowed closely up to about 20m with separation of only 2m in places. For 136 all four wires of the feeder are shorted together and the system is resonated by by a coil with spaced turns also in aluminium wire. Under these conditions I measured the feed point resistance in the region of 140 to 150 ohms using a noise bridge and managed about 0.8-0.9A aerial current using the appropriate tapping on the matching transformer. The output of the tx was 200V peak to peak or about 100W. Ignoring cable losses R=100/(0.85)^2=138ohms and there is rough confirmation between the measurements. I have had the trees reduced in height. The new measurement for feedpoint resistance is around 70ohms with a very wide flat minima on the noise bridge. The tx is now one module of the Decca with 54v ht and 8A or 432W input when transmitting. I measured 400W into a 50ohm dummy load so efficiency is 92.6%! The best match on the matching transformer is between 40 and 50ohms. Aerial current is now 3A so R=400/(3)^2=44ohm and there is a big difference between noise bridge and power measurement. I cannot think why. Of course when I was carrying out the last measurements everything was soaking as it had been raining for months and maybe this is the answer. I shall have to repeat the measurements when everything has thoroughly dried out. This may give you another set of data for European soil and of course any comments would be gratefully received. 73, Brian At 09:20 23/02/01, you wrote: >Hi John, > >I believe that the 'basic rule' with an elevated loading coil is that the >current remains constant from the bottom end (feeding point) up to the coil >and will drop linear from the coil toward the end of the antenna. >So if you have the coil at the top of the vertical section you will get a >constant current over this section, the same that you would get with a >infinite topload (that is Andy's theory in other words ..). > >But I am 'triggered' by something else : > >>I base this on measurements under our US no-license regulations at 1750 >>meters. One of my last attempts at operation from this qth, surrounded by >>trees, resulted in 200ma at the base and roughly 150 to 170ma entering the >>top hat with base tuning only. (I say "roughly" because I could only get >>myself to about half the height of the vertical run and had to sight through >>binoculars. Also, my notes have long since gone missing, so I'm having to >>depend a lot on my write-only memory. This was all with a vertical run of a >>little over 8m and a top radius a little less than 7m.) > >At a rather poor location (trees) you manage to get 0.2A with 1W input, >what means a loss resistance of less than 25 Ohm. >When I read the results similar of other lowfers (antenna currents up to >0.4A, what would mean a loss of only 6 Ohm) I am always suprised by the low >losses they achieve. >>>From what I know from European stations on 136kHz the losses go from +/- 30 >Ohm (those with a close-to-perfect location) to 150 Ohm at a poor location. > >So either : >1. ground losses are very frequency dependent >2. American soil is so much better (for LF) than European soil >3. the conversion rate from American Watt to European Watt is not 1/1 > >Assuming that : >1. most lowfers stick to the 1 Watt input rule >2. soil can be different, but not over an entire continent >I believe that ground loss must be very frequency dependent > >73, Rik ON7YD > > > > 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26604 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 09:01:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 09:01:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 7001 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 09:01:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 09:01:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WDzM-0002FK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 08:54:08 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.138] (helo=ruthenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WDzJ-0002FF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 08:54:05 +0000 Received: from [62.7.90.107] (helo=dave) by ruthenium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14WDz1-0004El-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 08:53:48 +0000 Message-ID: <000a01c09d76$2cecebc0$6b5a073e@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" References: <200102211621_MC2-C65E-1ECB@compuserve.com> <006901c09d27$4612daa0$9b81fc3e@gi8ayz> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Reflector split?...please No. Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 08:52:19 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Ian MI0AYZ wrote: >Besides, at the moment with a busted wing I cannot actually DO much until >the plaster comes Sorry to hear you have been in the wars, hope things are soon back to normal >It ain't broke so leave the dam'thing alone. I assume you mean the reflector and not your 'wing'... Yes perhaps splitting the reflector is not a good idea. The suggestion from Andre and myself seems to have generated more traffic than a split would have taken away! And for Andy Talbot I am certainly not an appliance operator, and most of us who use lf must build at least part of the station. I welcome any technical mails which help me in that process to operate normal cw - amplifiers, antennas, receivers etc. However the ones to do with dsp, wobble mode and six week qsos etc will still get deleted. Cheers Dave G3YMC dsergeant@btinternet.com dsergeant@iee.org http://www.btinternet.com/~dsergeant From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29227 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 08:31:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 08:31:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 13009 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 08:31:32 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 08:31:32 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WDTJ-00023c-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 08:21:01 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14WDTI-00023X-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 08:21:00 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA32028 for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 09:20:43 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010223092035.2dbf56a4@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 09:20:35 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: RE: ANTS: Higher L - higher ERP In-reply-to: <13.11cddc6c.27c7273c@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi John, I believe that the 'basic rule' with an elevated loading coil is that the current remains constant from the bottom end (feeding point) up to the coil and will drop linear from the coil toward the end of the antenna. So if you have the coil at the top of the vertical section you will get a constant current over this section, the same that you would get with a infinite topload (that is Andy's theory in other words ..). But I am 'triggered' by something else : >I base this on measurements under our US no-license regulations at 1750 >meters. One of my last attempts at operation from this qth, surrounded by >trees, resulted in 200ma at the base and roughly 150 to 170ma entering the >top hat with base tuning only. (I say "roughly" because I could only get >myself to about half the height of the vertical run and had to sight through >binoculars. Also, my notes have long since gone missing, so I'm having to >depend a lot on my write-only memory. This was all with a vertical run of a >little over 8m and a top radius a little less than 7m.) At a rather poor location (trees) you manage to get 0.2A with 1W input, what means a loss resistance of less than 25 Ohm. When I read the results similar of other lowfers (antenna currents up to 0.4A, what would mean a loss of only 6 Ohm) I am always suprised by the low losses they achieve. >From what I know from European stations on 136kHz the losses go from +/- 30 Ohm (those with a close-to-perfect location) to 150 Ohm at a poor location. So either : 1. ground losses are very frequency dependent 2. American soil is so much better (for LF) than European soil 3. the conversion rate from American Watt to European Watt is not 1/1 Assuming that : 1. most lowfers stick to the 1 Watt input rule 2. soil can be different, but not over an entire continent I believe that ground loss must be very frequency dependent 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2375 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 02:47:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 02:47:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 4443 invoked from network); 23 Feb 2001 02:47:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 23 Feb 2001 02:47:28 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14W895-0000LX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 02:39:47 +0000 Received: from imo-d08.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.40]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14W894-0000LS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 02:39:46 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-d08.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.13.11cddc6c (3977) for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 21:38:53 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <13.11cddc6c.27c7273c@aol.com> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 21:38:52 EST Subject: Re: LF: RE: ANTS: Higher L - higher ERP To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 2/22/01 10:45:09 AM Eastern Standard Time, ACTALBOT@dera.gov.uk writes: << If a sufficiently large L is raised to the top of the vertical to self resonate a practical top load, this behaves as an infinite load. Think about a series tuned circuit, at just below resonance the impedance drops quickly and this looks like a rapidly increasing capacitor, (until actual resonance which then appears as a short circuit or small resistance). Hence a fully resonant top load equals an infinite top load ! And current in the vertical section stays constant. Since the system is now resonant no loading coil is needed at the bottom. >> Andy, I believe it might be good to reconsider this theory. An electrically short vertical antenna, with a top hat and an inductor _anywhere_ along the vertical length, is a series-resonant circuit whether tuned predominantly at the base or higher up. Current into the coil continues to equal current out of the coil wherever one locates it along the vertical run. The need for higher inductance to achieve resonance when the coil is near the top is simply because the capacitance to ground on the high-potential end of the coil is less from "way up there." The effect of this is that the C to ground from the low side of the coil is less relevant simply because that's the low-Z end. The voltage on the wire is also lower there. It has an incidental effect on current distribution as Mike notes; not in the same way it does on taller antennae that begin with a non-linear current distribution, but because lower voltage on the C of the vertical run does not result in current being coupled as readily to the surroundings. I call this incidental, though, because the difference in current at the base and the top of the antenna is fairly small if the radius of the top hat already measures an appreciable fraction of the height of the antenna. I base this on measurements under our US no-license regulations at 1750 meters. One of my last attempts at operation from this qth, surrounded by trees, resulted in 200ma at the base and roughly 150 to 170ma entering the top hat with base tuning only. (I say "roughly" because I could only get myself to about half the height of the vertical run and had to sight through binoculars. Also, my notes have long since gone missing, so I'm having to depend a lot on my write-only memory. This was all with a vertical run of a little over 8m and a top radius a little less than 7m.) Moving a larger value inductor to the top and tuning with a small variable inductor at the base resulted in a top-load current very slightly less than 150ma and a base current of 150ma. As with Mike, mine was a lossier coil at the top. Now, since h(effective) of a short vertical under ideal conditions is h(actual) times the sum of base and top currents divided by two, one would expect my signal strength to have been very little different. But in practice, it was a good S-unit better at my reference test point. I have to attribute this to a reduction in absorption of reactive power by the surroundings, as Rik has said. Reduce the amount of antenna capacitance subject to high voltage, and the loss goes down. Sadly, it still wasn't enough of an improvement to do nearly as well as any of the successful US LowFERs, but my landlord is at last removing some extraneous trees from the property. Perhaps next winter I'll try again. I don't expect to see the same results as if I could pump a couple hundred times the power into the same antenna, but I'll be grateful for all I can legally manage until we finally obtain a ham band. 73, John From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22015 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 23:35:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 23:35:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 26704 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 23:35:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 23:35:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14W57b-0007q4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 23:26:03 +0000 Received: from mta1-win.server.ntli.net ([62.253.164.41] helo=mta1-svc.virgin.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14W57a-0007pz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 23:26:03 +0000 Received: from Iian ([62.252.129.155]) by mta1-svc.virgin.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010222232810.GOIK17586.mta1-svc.virgin.net@Iian> for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 23:28:10 +0000 Message-ID: <006901c09d27$4612daa0$9b81fc3e@gi8ayz> From: "IAN KYLE" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200102211621_MC2-C65E-1ECB@compuserve.com> Subject: LF: Re: Reflector split?...please No. Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 23:08:26 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: There is no need to split the reflector. Amateur radio is fragmented enough already and surely this relatively tiny group of ours can accomodate all without further subdivision A lot of what appears on the reflector may be of direct interest to only a percentage of us, but IT KEEPS US ALL INFORMED AND THAT IS GOOD. My only interest is in 73 KHz but I read everything and delete as necessary. That way I don't miss anything. Besides, at the moment with a busted wing I cannot actually DO much until the plaster comes off so there will be an eight week hiatus before work can actually start on squirting rf around the place as promised, and reading the mail is keeping me sane (comparatively speaking). It ain't broke so leave the dam'thing alone. Gruffly yours, Ian MI0AYZ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3713 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 22:24:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 22:24:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 29419 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 22:24:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 22:24:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14W42z-0007UZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:17:13 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14W42y-0007UU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:17:12 +0000 Received: from [62.7.31.6] (helo=presario1920) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14W42g-0006ar-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:16:54 +0000 From: "John W Gould" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: How many awards do we have? Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 22:18:54 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <3A94DE36.29233.1B019C@localhost> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Petr and others, Mike is quite correct, but there are also some other awards that the RSGB sponsor - one for 73kHz and another for 136kHz. These along with details of the RSGB, DARC and AMRAD Transatlantic Challenge are detailed along with the other RSGB HF Awards at http://www.g3wkl.freeserve.co.uk/awards/hf_awards_index.html Just in case people are curious, LF is supported and encouraged by the HF Committee. That committee deals with matters below 30MHz - maybe with all the activity on 136kHz we ought to get the committee remaned! I would encourage all who can qualify for these awards to contact the HF Awards Manager, as detailed. For those outside, but near enough to the UK that there is a reception award for 73kHz amateur signals - it would be good to encourage more activity and understanding of propagation on this band before we loose it. John G3WKL RSGB HF Committee member -----Original Message----- From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf Of Mike Dennison Sent: Thursday, February 22, 2001 09:39 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: How many awards do we have? > Maybe a silly question, but how many awards do we actually have for > trans-atlantic? > > I saw a "Challenge" that John received, it is at: > http://www.g3wkl.freeserve.co.uk/lf/ve1zj.jpg > > And there is another award which template I placed temporarily at: > http://www.sweb.cz/ok1fig/lfaward3r.jpg These are both part of the awards scheme set up to commemorate the work of Peter Bobek, DJ8WL, by the RSGB, DARC and AMRAD. Briefly, awards are for: 1) The first reception of a transatlantic signal (VE1ZJ) 2) The first two-way contact (not yet awarded) 3) The holders of the best DX - whether transatlantic or not - at two points each year (last time it was you and Jack) Any enquiries should go to John Gould, G3WKL g3wkl@btinternet.com Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7588 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 19:48:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 19:48:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 22585 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 19:48:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 19:48:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14W1cP-0006cS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 19:41:37 +0000 Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14W1cN-0006cM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 19:41:35 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.181.93]) by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010222194049.YEQS13669018.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Fri, 23 Feb 2001 08:40:49 +1300 Message-ID: <005501c09d08$41da5220$36b51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3A9502FA.9191.AA9F0E@localhost> Subject: LF: Re: ANTS: Higher L - higher ERP Date: Fri, 23 Feb 2001 08:46:14 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike, I am happy to clarify various points: > ZL2CA wrote: snip > > If I recall, you said that the changed current distribution was an > > explanation for the reduced value of current at the feedpoint, which > > was incorrect. Current is dependent on "loop resistance" at > > resonance. > > Can you explain this concept, please. It is foreign to me. It could be a term from MF broadcast antenna practice, and it means adding together all the series resistance factors in the "antenna equivalent circuit". So it includes coil loss, ground loss, radiation resistance, feeder resistance, insulation loss (series R equiv) and transmitter output resistance. At resonance, the circulating current is is a function of this loop resistance. In the case of replacing one loading coil with another that has higher resistance, the overall loop resistance increases. This may also impact on impedance matching as seen by the transmitter, but that is likely secondary. For a short vertical antenna, lower loop resistance means more radiated power for a given amount of applied transmitter power. > > > Last night, Jim, M0BMU measured my field strength compared to a > > > measurement taken two weeks ago. It was 0.9dB up. > > > > That is very similar to some tests I did some time back, at 181 kHz, > > with a temporary top loading. > > OK, so you agree that toip loading can make an improvement. > > > > This does not account for the greatly improved reports, > > > > Quite so. 0.9 dB hardly shifts the S meter. > > But would you reject a 0.9dB improvement? No, but 0.9 dB is only 0.9 dB. >If I had done so at each > stage over the last few years I would still be struggling to hear my > own signals a few km away. Also, 0.9dB makes a big difference at > the 'knee' of the readability curve, for instance when trying to work > VE. Yes, 0.9 dB could make all the difference for very marginal copy. If an amateur station is below the radiated power limit for their licence, then I suggest that 0.9 dB is "easier" and "cheaper" to obtain by increasing transmitter power. Receive conditions are dictated by external field strength to QRN ratio, so the main issue in being copied by a DX listener is in maximising radiated power (regulations being the upper cap). snip > > > At last here is real evidence that the elevated coil really does > > > increase the 'h' part of the equation. Several of us were sure that > > > it did, and several have noticed improvements in our signals when > > > using elevated coils, but the evidence has always been anecdotal. > > > > And still appears to be the case. The same "gain" should be observed > > on transmit and receive (being wary that local noise could be > > different at each end of a path). > > I am not sure why you are discounting Jim's measurement. Why is > the evidence still anecdotal? > > Although I agree with your argument about reciprocity, my antenna > is matched to the Tx and not the Rx so I do not think a receive > measurement would be valid. I was not discounting the 0.9 dB measurement. It continues to be my opinion that only 0.9 dB of CONFIRMED improvement is hardly worth the mechanical and electrical overhead of having top loading inductance. Bumping up transmitter power is more attractive, in my opinion. If a station is at the regulatory limit for radiated power, then any change to the antenna is a matter of shuffling one factor for another, and setting the transmitter power to suit. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13941 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 15:46:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 15:46:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 3861 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 15:46:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 15:46:31 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Vxpp-0005KO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 15:39:13 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Vxpn-0005KJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 15:39:11 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id PAA20715; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 15:41:04 GMT Received: (qmail 30887 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 16:31:18 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 16:31:17 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id QAA22596; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 16:20:13 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma021618; Thu, 22 Feb 01 16:17:44 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-3.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 13:52:22 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-3.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 13:47:37 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D75E2@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: ANTS: Higher L - higher ERP Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 13:47:54 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From G3XDV > I contend that, although I may have my theory incorrect, using > elevated inductance can be worthwhile (even with the increased > resistive losses caused by the total inductance having to increase) > in circumstances where the top section is relatively small and > therefore the effective height is low, or where the lower part of the > vertical section is obstructed. The theory I defend is that the > effective height of the antenna is being increased by this method. > I look forward to further discussion on exactly what theory fits this > practical result. > Quite correct and the theory is very simple, the height is being increased quite a lot :-) No top loading at all results in a tapered current distribution from max at the bottom to zero at the top of the antenna. For a short antenna, << 0.1 lambda, the taper is linear. Averaging (integrating) over the total length gives an effective height exactly equal to half the physical height. Adding an INFINITELY big top loading capacitance to a perfectly conducting ground (infinite radial system) means the effective height is equal to the actual height of the antenna. Everything else is in between and not easily modelable (is that a valid word ?) If a sufficiently large L is raised to the top of the vertical to self resonate a practical top load, this behaves as an infinite load. Think about a series tuned circuit, at just below resonance the impedance drops quickly and this looks like a rapidly increasing capacitor, (until actual resonance which then appears as a short circuit or small resistance). Hence a fully resonant top load equals an infinite top load ! And current in the vertical section stays constant. Since the system is now resonant no loading coil is needed at the bottom. And the effective height has increased and ERP gone up by the square. In practice the loss resistance of the top loading coil - which now has to be bigger as the capacitance of the top section, which which it resonates, is less than top plus vertical, so gives an increased series resistance over that of a bottom coil alone. Also some bottom L is still needed to allow tuning over frequency I must admit, Mike, to being concerned as to why you got a serious reduction in current, but now you've explained about the change to a lossier plain wire coil from a Litz wound one that explains everything. When first on 73kHz I tried putting about 1mH at the top - just a loose coil of enamelled wire - not really expecting much improvement with a 22mH loading coil. It gave me about 5% reduction in antenna system resistance over no top loading so had to be more efficient, but no field strength measurements were ever made. The coil was too big to hang permanently from the centre of the Tee so got put away and forgotton until now. In fact the wire formed part of the 137 loading coil in use now. May be time to revisit the idea. And I bet my back garden at 10m x 4.8m is smaller than yours Mike :-( Andy 'JNT > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14853 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 14:55:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 14:55:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 17951 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 14:55:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 14:55:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VwvN-0004zj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 14:40:53 +0000 Received: from latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.40]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VwvM-0004ze-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 14:40:52 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-13-76.easynet.co.uk [212.134.22.76]) by latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 5DA75537B3 for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 14:40:35 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000901c09cdd$eea6fb00$4c1686d4@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re Decca active antenna Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 14:43:24 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: There has been quite a response with requests for the Decca active antenna amplifier circuit. I felt that the best plan is to put it on the Web site at http://web.ukonline.co.uk/g3ldo/ Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 119 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 13:30:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 13:30:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 21304 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 13:30:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 13:30:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VviH-0004at-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 13:23:17 +0000 Received: from ds-img-3.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.136] helo=spdmgaac.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VviF-0004ao-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 13:23:16 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id IAA18512 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 08:22:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 08:21:33 -0500 From: "Holger 'Geri', DK8KW" Subject: LF: ANTS: Higher L - higher ERP To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200102220821_MC2-C677-D8CB@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike, G3XDV wrote > >I look forward to further discussion on exactly what theory fits this >practical result. > I don't think I can add a good portion of theory why it works, however, I can through my two cents into the discussion supporting what Mike (and other's) have found out when we elevated our loading coils. When I started with my 18m umbrella antenna (based on a fiberglas-mast, for details see http://www.qru.de/station.htm) I used a 3.8 mH coilt that was inside my shack, basically at the base of my antenna. When I decided to bring a 3.8 mH coil 1/3 up the mast height (= 6m above ground) I could measure DCF39 coming in about 2 dB better. Reports from other stations as well as actual field strength measurements that I performed indicated that I gained even more dBs on my transmit way. As the actual mast that carries the antenna is a fiberglas telescope mast, the loading coil is not disturbed by and metal around it other than the antenna wire itself. My explanation for the un-symetrical gain on RX and TX: with the coil being in my shack and a voltage of around 10 kV at the top of the coil the losses from the antenna wire along the wall and especially through the wall might have eaten up some of the power I tried to radiate simply by shortcutting the voltage to ground. After I now have only a 900 uH variometer in my shack for fine-tuning, the voltage fell probaly to less than 1 kV and, accordingly the losses inside my shack are much lower, helping to increase the overall ERP. As said in an earlier mail where we discussed how to isolate the coil against rain, snow, etc. I described that my coil is not protected at all against humidity or snow. With 350 Watt output I have no flashover problems. From field strength measurment I estimate my ERP (not EMRP) to be around 350 mW, giving an overall 'gain' of this antenna configuration of around -30 dB. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8372 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 13:12:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 13:12:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 1620 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 13:12:52 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 13:12:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VvQO-0004Vq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 13:04:48 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VvQL-0004Vl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 13:04:45 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA60566 for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 14:04:27 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010222140420.083fc5f4@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 14:04:20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: ANTS: Higher L - higher ERP In-reply-to: <3A9502FA.9191.AA9F0E@localhost> References: <004e01c09b79$b6ece360$5bb21bca@xtr743187> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 12:15 22/02/01 -0000, G3XDV wrote: >Others have tried elevated coils with some success, notably Rik, >ON7YD, who has a similar problem to me - small top section and >local obstructions. He was originally very critical of my claims, but >has become a convert. I can confirm the results that Mike got. Last year I added a 2mH loading coil at the top of my inverted L (at that time 11m high with a topload consisting of 3 parallel wires spaced 75cm and 25m long). The base loading coil xwas reduced from 3.5mH to 2mH. Based on improved current distribution the benefit should have been few tenths of a dB (confirmed by simulation) but in practice it seemed to be about 4dB. Measurements made by PA0SE and DK8KW (over distances of abt. 150 and 400km) confirmed this. My 'guess' to explain this unexpected improvement is that the coupling between the antenna and the many surrounding trees was mainly via the vertical section (as trees tend to be mainly vertical objects), so by adding the elevated coil I could reduce the voltage on the vertical section by abt. 50%, reducing also the unwanted current flow from the antenna to the trees. After I reported the good results with the elevated coil to the reflector I got some mail from other hams who tried the same and it looks as if only those whose antennas are surrounded by trees or other obstacles seem to benefit from an elevated voil. Stimulated by Mikes results (once more) I will try to get almost 100% of the loading elevated, leaving a small coil at ground level for tuning purposes. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4899 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 12:39:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 12:39:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 10344 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 12:39:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 12:39:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Vuty-0004LK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 12:31:18 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Vutt-0004LD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 12:31:14 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 12:15:56 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 12:15:54 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: ANTS: Higher L - higher ERP Message-ID: <3A9502FA.9191.AA9F0E@localhost> In-reply-to: <004e01c09b79$b6ece360$5bb21bca@xtr743187> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ZL2CA wrote: > OK on the elevated loading coil. I'm not convinced that hard results > support your claims: Bob, I was confused by your reaction to my assertion that not only had my increased elevated inductance improved my signal reports, but it had also increased measured signal strength. Some of what you say supports me, but some appears to doubt my results. I concede that some of my attempts to explain the practical results with theory may be faulty. > If I recall, you said that the changed current distribution was an > explanation for the reduced value of current at the feedpoint, which > was incorrect. Current is dependent on "loop resistance" at > resonance. Can you explain this concept, please. It is foreign to me. > > Last night, Jim, M0BMU measured my field strength compared to a > > measurement taken two weeks ago. It was 0.9dB up. > > That is very similar to some tests I did some time back, at 181 kHz, > with a temporary top loading. OK, so you agree that toip loading can make an improvement. > > This does not account for the greatly improved reports, > > Quite so. 0.9 dB hardly shifts the S meter. But would you reject a 0.9dB improvement? If I had done so at each stage over the last few years I would still be struggling to hear my own signals a few km away. Also, 0.9dB makes a big difference at the 'knee' of the readability curve, for instance when trying to work VE. > > but it does > > show that with less current and more resistive losses, the only way > > the ERP could have increased is if the 'effective height' had > > increased. > > Yes. The net result of decreased current because of increased loop > resistance (a top loading coil necessarily needs higher inductance > (more wire) than a base loading coil) and the improved current > distribution in the vertical wire. The effective height factor is > just winning out over current reduction, by some 0.9 dB. Isn't that what I said? > >Field strength is of course directly proportional to current > > squared multiplied by effective height (h) squared. > > True for radiated power. Field strength is directly proportional to > the product of current and effective height (amp metres). Agreed. Field strength involves V, and to get power you need V squared. My mistake. > > At last here is real evidence that the elevated coil really does > > increase the 'h' part of the equation. Several of us were sure that > > it did, and several have noticed improvements in our signals when > > using elevated coils, but the evidence has always been anecdotal. > > And still appears to be the case. The same "gain" should be observed > on transmit and receive (being wary that local noise could be > different at each end of a path). I am not sure why you are discounting Jim's measurement. Why is the evidence still anecdotal? Although I agree with your argument about reciprocity, my antenna is matched to the Tx and not the Rx so I do not think a receive measurement would be valid. > There is still the matter of adequately housing the elevated loading > coil and sustaining good insulation at high RF voltages. The weight > of a coil usually means it needs to be supported by a tower or mast. > Antenna modelling shows that if the vertical feed to a T antenna is > near metalwork, it caused shunt capacitance that pulls down the gain > by about 1 dB. Tuning (and re-tuning) of the loading coil is somewhat > inconvenient when it up in the air. Yes. And that is why I said that I did not expect everyone to rush out and put up an elevated coil. It is clearly unsuitable for a T antenna, but very suitable for an L where the mast can take the total weight of the coil - actually mine is just in the horizontal section but has in the past been mounted on top of the mast. The coil need not be huge or heavy. I use a drain pipe (a fizzy drinks bottle can be used) and enamelled wire recovered from a mains transformer. This has replaced a much bigger Litz wire coil at the base. Tuning is easily achieved. I have a 0.5mH variometer at the base, with a 68000pF heavy duty capacitor in series with it. > One situation not amenable to modelling (with NEC-2) is when there is > clutter around the vertical wire. It seems that clutter causes > disproportionate losses from "soakage" as the high field strength part > of the wire rises above ground. Some experimenters have reported > significant improvement by relocating the "upwire" to being in a > clearer environment. A similar effect would arise with an elevated > loading coil, as the potential on the "upwire" is considerably lower > than for a base loading coil installation. However, all of these > environmental factors should show up in impedance data and gain > measurements. I am not saying that top loading will work for everyone. If I had a mast totally in the clear I would expect very little benefit as the antenna would perform very much as the model. However, practical LF antennas are hampered by trees, houses and so on, and may benefit from "improved current distribution" - your words. > I have observed the construction technique a number of LF NDB > stations, from visits and photographs. None have elevated loading > coils. All have clear sites. Quite. > I'm not against experimentation and developing better antennas that > fit in our back yards. To summarise the history of this experiment, I have a small garden and cannot use a large top section to gain 'effective height' on my vertical section. I have used an elevated inductor for several years. The idea came from knowing that 160m mobile antennas (in scale a similar problem to the one we have) worked better in tests when the coil was half way up the whip. Using some 3mH I instantly got better results at a distance. This was met with some doubt from those who relied on modelling, and from those who could not find a theory that fitted. I have always argued that if practice and theory do not fit, believe the practice - or more usefully the wrong bit of theory is being used to explain what is going on. Others have tried elevated coils with some success, notably Rik, ON7YD, who has a similar problem to me - small top section and local obstructions. He was originally very critical of my claims, but has become a convert. I contend that, although I may have my theory incorrect, using elevated inductance can be worthwhile (even with the increased resistive losses caused by the total inductance having to increase) in circumstances where the top section is relatively small and therefore the effective height is low, or where the lower part of the vertical section is obstructed. The theory I defend is that the effective height of the antenna is being increased by this method. I look forward to further discussion on exactly what theory fits this practical result. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24429 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 09:56:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 09:56:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 27047 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 09:56:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 09:56:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VsK5-0003V7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 09:46:05 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VsK3-0003V2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 09:46:04 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 09:39:03 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 09:39:02 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: How many awards do we have? Message-ID: <3A94DE36.29233.1B019C@localhost> In-reply-to: <000401c09ca3$96d7c7e0$1601a8c0@maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Maybe a silly question, but how many awards do we actually have for > trans-atlantic? > > I saw a "Challenge" that John received, it is at: > http://www.g3wkl.freeserve.co.uk/lf/ve1zj.jpg > > And there is another award which template I placed temporarily at: > http://www.sweb.cz/ok1fig/lfaward3r.jpg These are both part of the awards scheme set up to commemorate the work of Peter Bobek, DJ8WL, by the RSGB, DARC and AMRAD. Briefly, awards are for: 1) The first reception of a transatlantic signal (VE1ZJ) 2) The first two-way contact (not yet awarded) 3) The holders of the best DX - whether transatlantic or not - at two points each year (last time it was you and Jack) Any enquiries should go to John Gould, G3WKL g3wkl@btinternet.com Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20238 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 09:39:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 09:39:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 16136 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 09:39:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 09:39:45 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Vs3l-0003Mg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 09:29:13 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Vs3h-0003Mb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 09:29:09 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id JAA01082; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 09:31:01 GMT Received: (qmail 14742 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 10:21:16 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 10:21:16 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id KAA15391; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 10:10:13 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma015138; Thu, 22 Feb 01 10:09:14 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-3.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 09:31:52 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-3.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 09:27:12 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D75E1@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: SPLIT Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 09:27:26 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Not strictly true..... Some data modes invented by amateurs with characteristics that were designed solely for use in crowded bands have found their way into commercial and military useage. But you'll have to find out for yourself which ones I mean. Ask those people down the road Mal ;-) That's the downside of putting software in the Public Domain Andy 'JNT >. Radio amateurs certainly do not > lead the way these days, it might have been the case 50 years ago. To > day we copy and modify. > G3KEV > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19499 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 08:44:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 08:44:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 27332 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 08:44:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 08:44:17 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VrGy-00035d-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 08:38:48 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VrGx-00035Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 08:38:47 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id IAA20011; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 08:40:36 GMT Received: (qmail 7788 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 09:30:51 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 09:30:51 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id JAA06256; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 09:19:47 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma006233; Thu, 22 Feb 01 09:19:24 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-3.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 08:42:34 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-3.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 08:37:55 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D75DF@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: TECH: LF Converters Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 08:38:08 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Remember to terminate the IF low freqeuncy port and a least one of the others with something close to 50 ohms at BOTH wanted and image frequencies if you want to preserve the full dynamic range and strong signal handling these are capable of. Use a diplexer filter if necessary to terminate properly at both frequencies Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: PY3CRX PY2PLL [mailto:py2pll@py.qsl.br] > Sent: 2001-02-21 15:30 > To: LF Group > Subject: LF: TECH: LF Converters > > > Hi ... > > I've been using a MC1496 as a mixer and decided to try those SBLs from > Minicircuits. But the models that cover down to few KHz are > quite expensive > and not available here. > > Re-reading the Minicircuits book I have (from 1993, 700 pages > or so) they > say that for some applications we can use the SIG port as > output and the the > IF port as input when we need to "receive from DC to several MHz". > > This is the case below 500KHz for cheap SBL1, SRA1, etc or > even to an high > intercept home made DDBM. The isolation remains more or less > the same, so > the SWR. > > I checked this inverting feature on SBL1, SRA1 and TFM2. All > units gave the > same insertion loss (6.5dB) and produced the same LO > attenuation at receiver > input (-45dBc). I use a MAV11 as post amp. > > The performance actually is better than the MC1496 bug (less > noise) and 82Hz > ZEVS signal still there, so the regular utilities on 16K, > 18k2, 18k3, 19k8, > 21k4, 24k0 ... and some new ones between 50K and 100K > yesterday (rtty/msk). > > 73 > Marcus > PY3CRX/PY2PLL > S. B. do Campo - GG66rf > http://py.qsl.br > Active from "DC" to 24GHz > > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13160 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 08:37:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 08:37:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 12459 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 08:37:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 08:37:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VrAl-000354-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 08:32:23 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [194.200.20.13] (helo=mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VrAk-00034z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 08:32:22 +0000 Received: from useram64.netscapeonline.co.uk ([62.125.132.237] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 14Vr63-0006lS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 08:27:32 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A94CE4C.32749A97@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 08:31:08 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: SPLIT Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All Regarding the suggested split between so called hi-tech modes, already being used by commercial operators and the normal cw for those competent to use it. I think it would be better to continue on here as usual. I read all the mail posted here and enjoy it and understand it although I think some of the suggested data modes are not suited to LF. The so called hi tech modes and modifications like PSK(any phase), TDM, FDM, FSK, AFSK, KT, MSK and Piccolo and I could go on, have been used for years by commercials, so they are not new but are only being modified by a few for use on LF. There is room hopefully for all of us with some consultations about a band plan. There must be a hundred modes used by commercial operators that most radio amateurs have never heard about. Radio amateurs certainly do not lead the way these days, it might have been the case 50 years ago. To day we copy and modify. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7100 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 08:07:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 08:07:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 24200 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 08:07:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 08:07:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Vqf8-0002sa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 07:59:42 +0000 Received: from mta5-win.server.ntli.net ([62.253.164.45] helo=mta5-svc.virgin.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Vqf7-0002sS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 07:59:41 +0000 Received: from p.cleal ([62.252.40.36]) by mta5-svc.virgin.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010222075923.CSGA23863.mta5-svc.virgin.net@p.cleal> for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 07:59:23 +0000 Message-ID: <000801c09ca5$6cf97ac0$2428fc3e@p.cleal> From: "Peter Cleall" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 07:58:59 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 07:59:42 +0000 >>How about in the short term we agree to put an unambiguous marker >>in the subject line for the high tech postings (ie [TECH]) and then >>subscribers who do not want to see the postings can filter them straight >>to the bit bucket. >>Stewart G3YSX I am in no way convinced that we can discipline ourselves to correctly categorise our messages. We need one reflector with a policy of restricting ourselves to one topic per message. Most of us, will often, cover more than one topic in an e-mail. Even the heavy QRM from Scarborough or the output of the high tech guru of Portsdown Hill, will sometimes, amongst the detail, have provided some gems of information of value to many other people who are at different stages on their LF learning curves. If we wish to report activity, discuss our latest antenna measurements, sort out a problem on QRSS software, report propagation conditions or consider various GPS stability and timing issues then we should send 5 separate messages with suitable subject lines. We need to be more selective on the use of to whom we send our messages and how we reply to incoming one's. Before we send each e-mail we should be asking "Should it go to an individual or should it be general to the reflector". If it may be helpful to others it should go on the reflector. Then we should ask "is it clear from the subject line that this is an existing thread or a new subject" then we should ask "Is there any part of the e-mail that is aimed at a different aspect which should be sent separately". First hand experience of being a member, simultaneously, of a number of closely related lists, in a totally different field from Radio, is that cross posting is a major problem, different posting times to each list leads to fear of missing things which leads to checking everything. All my lists have a similar mix, technophiles, technophobes, raw beginners, experts, silent majorities and noise generators. We do not have a unique problem. I think the solution lies in receiving all LF e-mails from the one source, as we currently do and learning how to manage our e-mail better. I use two techniques I transfer mail into different subject folders, some are Inbox folders and some are desktop folders, some are automatic and some need manual intervention. I have set the e-mail system "view" to show a small number of subject lines and a large preview pane. The preview pane allows very rapid checking of the e-mail contents without opening them and deletion where necessary. [ I am just as guilty , the last few sentences should really be on a separate e-mail with a different heading, or should they ??] regards Peter G8AFN From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1297 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 07:59:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 07:59:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 8612 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 07:59:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 07:59:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VqXc-0002oz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 07:51:56 +0000 Received: from [195.47.110.226] (helo=dell1.gmccz.cz.gmc.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VqXZ-0002ot-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 07:51:53 +0000 Received: from p (p.maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net [192.168.1.22]) by dell1.gmccz.cz.gmc.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id FNQVY8QM; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 08:53:20 +0100 Message-ID: <000401c09ca3$96d7c7e0$1601a8c0@maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly" To: "136 group" Subject: LF: How many awards do we have? Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 11:58:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Maybe a silly question, but how many awards do we actually have for trans-atlantic? I saw a "Challenge" that John received, it is at: http://www.g3wkl.freeserve.co.uk/lf/ve1zj.jpg And there is another award which template I placed temporarily at: http://www.sweb.cz/ok1fig/lfaward3r.jpg Is there any summary of transatlantic awards and the conditions to comply with and a contact person? 73 Petr OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26201 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 07:03:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 07:03:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 16314 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 07:03:41 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 07:03:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Vpd4-0002Wd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 06:53:30 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: High Received: from asterix.tee.gr ([212.70.193.140]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Vpd2-0002WY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 06:53:28 +0000 Received: from teeserver.tee.gr (teeserver.tee.gr [212.70.193.130]) by asterix.tee.gr (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA13687 for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 08:53:16 +0200 (EET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from odin ([212.70.200.35]) by teeserver.tee.gr (Netscape Messaging Server 4.1) with SMTP id G95CGW00.C1E for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 08:53:20 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.2.32.20010222085209.033bde64@aurora.eexi.gr> X-Sender: sv1xv@aurora.eexi.gr X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.2 (32) X-Priority: 1 Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 08:52:09 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Costas Krallis" Subject: Re: LF: Re: BEACONS: Greek navy on 135.8 QRT ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 21:19 21/02/2001 -0000, you wrote: > Hi Wolf SXV is on and off at present but it was visible yesterday I believe. > I have been told that the mast occupies a site that is going to be developed > as an Olympic stadium, so a move could be in the wind. Maybe Costas has more > information? There are no news about closure of the site yet. There is pressure from the Olympics comittee to close it and build sports installations (for rowing, canoe etc) there, but it shall take some time. I think the current downtime is for maintenance. BTW, the station is still off at 22 Feb 2001, 0650 UTC. Costas +------------------------------------------------------------+ | Costas Krallis SV1XV * LOC KM18UA | | P.O.Box 3066 * E-Mail: sv1xv@eexi.gr | | GR-10210 Athens * PGP key: 0x3BDBBC34 | | GREECE * http://www.qsl.net/sv1xv/ | | * http://w4u.eexi.gr/~sv1xv/ | +------------------------------------------------------------+ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2438 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 00:59:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 00:59:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 23673 invoked from network); 22 Feb 2001 00:59:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 22 Feb 2001 00:59:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Vk0U-0000fl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 00:53:18 +0000 Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Vk0T-0000fg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 00:53:17 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.de.108c05df (17531) for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:52:15 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:52:11 EST Subject: Re: LF: SV: ERP / LF - where next To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: << Haha! The WOM - The Write Only Memory! >> I think Johan and Jim have hit on something here. I've already implemented that type of memory in wetware (between the ears). It's not quite perfected yet. The current version is highly effective for discarding almost everything useful, but tends to let trivia and drivel be recovered almost at will. HI. John From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15179 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 22:06:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 22:06:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 23080 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 22:07:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 22:07:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VhJd-00087L-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:00:53 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.89]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VhJc-00087G-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:00:52 +0000 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14VhJL-000Ima-0V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:00:35 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A943B17.44A88E16@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:03:03 +0000 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Splitting the reflector. References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D75DC@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Talbot Andrew wrote: > I think it rather sad and a sorry state of affairs for amateur radio > that there are people out there who may not be interested in the > technical side and presumably just want to be appliance operators. Although I would not want to watch computer screens for hour after hour either, I think that it is wrong to refer to the QRSS/data mode fraternity as appliance operators. Even though most of the functions end up being under computer control, quite a bit of technical know-how is required to download the software; connect the boxes together; and then figure out if a message has been sent, and, if so, what it means; and who sent it. > How about, instead, the word OPER in the subject so we don't have to > bother with the who-heard-who messages. I too have been puzzled why QRSSers often refer to morse characters as being 'heard' when they are in fact 'seen' on a computer screen. But I do agree that we're all getting a bit fed up with the dozens of such 'who-heard-who' messages relating to transatlantic QRSS signals - especially when so little communication is being achieved. > I thought we were all supposed to be experimenters by virtue of > the amateur licence I agree. Let us return to the virtue of 'self-training in radio communication' - with particular emphasis on _communication_. Oh yes (I almost forgot), if anyone is maintaining a tally chart: I would prefer that this group of LF enthusiasts did not split. (It's so much fun the way it is.) Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29076 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 21:58:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 21:58:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 6477 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 21:58:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 21:58:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Vh5u-0007xH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:46:42 +0000 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Vh5t-0007xC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:46:41 +0000 Received: from [213.1.152.62] (helo=presario1920) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14Vh5W-0007I2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:46:19 +0000 From: "John W Gould" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Re: Claiming the Bobek Award? Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:48:12 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-reply-to: <015701c09bb3$209ac8c0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I've been away from being able to pick up e-mail so apologies for this late reply. The Transatlantic Challenge is hosted on the RSGB HF Committee site on behalf of the other sponsors (DARC and AMRAD). The URL is http://www.g3wkl.freeserve.co.uk/awards/136_trans_challenge.html Whilst there has been some excellent work done, both in terms of technical and the operating aspects, I will need to confer with my opposite numbers within DARC and AMRAD to decide whether we consider that we can recommend that the intent of the award has infact been met by this and other recent exchanges. This may take a little while as amateur radio is a hobby that has to take second place with our jobs. Best 73 John G3WKL RSGB HF Committee member -----Original Message----- From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf Of Larry Kayser Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 03:05 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Claiming the Bobek Award? David et all > Hi All, but in particular Laurie and Larry. > > Well done to both on the transatlantic QSO Marathon. > Can to clarify if you are both claiming the Peter Bobek award from the > sponsoring organizations with this QSO? Thank You David for your wishes. You also pose a very interesting question. I am travelling at the moment and for the next few days so I will have to post this when I go by Westport, I will not be able to deal with any issues raised by this reply until the weekend. When I saw your message I did a search for information on the Bobek award, in the short time I had I only found information available on the AMRAD web site. I tried to do some additional search refinements - they produced some interesting results for the Bobek name but nothing about the award. After studying the Bobek Award information on AMRAD I offer the following. First, the Award Information is mute on any process for applying for, or as you suggest "claiming" the award. I have been involved in several other prizes over the years and my response to this is that the managers/originators of the award have been mute, then it is beholding on Laurie and I to in fact keep quiet. I am sure the managers/originators of the Bobek Award have some internal process and it would therefor be very inappropriate for Laurie or myself to be "claiming" the award. There is very simply no process for us to do so within the Bobek Award information. Second, to your question, certainly Laurie and I would like to be recognized by our peers for the work we have done in this first two way LF QSO across the North Atlantic. I sensed late last year that there was a large amount of thrashing around going on in our LF community, signals could be heard both ways over the Atlantic but the completing of a QSO just did not happen. I ask you to remember that the opportunity for a QSO, using existing aural CW QSO models, did not happen over a period of about four months. In January when my signal was heard rather well in Europe - I started seeking a partner for a QSO attempt. David, you received one of those messages inquiring of you if it was time to do the trick. Simply put, Laurie and I got together and we did the trick, albeit slowly. We exchanged call signs, we exchanged reports, we acknowledged the reports we ended the QSO. We did it with our very best efforts using what was working now - even to the extent of my climbing a tall tower after dark to effect repairs so the QSO process could continue. There are now stakes in the ground for those who come next to follow and improve on. Our work will be improved upon, but for the moment we are first and that is a simple fact. The model for a QSO is interesting, their are both traditions and processes used by many groups in amateur radio. No existing QSO processes accommodate 90 second and 180 second information bits. We have entered new ground - new QSO processes are needed to deal with the new ground. David, your question was asked in public, I have answered in public for Laurie and myself. Recognition by our peers would be great, however the first two way LF QSO over the North Atlantic has now occurred. The next QSO over the North Atlantic will improve and press beyond what we have done, it will be at the end of the day be the second two way LF QSO over the North Atlantic. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4561 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 21:58:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 21:58:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 6499 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 21:58:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 21:58:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Vh9z-00081s-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:50:55 +0000 Received: from fep02.swip.net ([130.244.199.130] helo=fep02-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Vh9v-00081e-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:50:51 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.88.11]) by fep02-svc.swip.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with SMTP id <20010221214959.CYCN3933.fep02-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:49:59 +0100 Message-ID: <00da01c09c50$57f27c80$0b5897d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: SV: ERP / LF - where next Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 22:50:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jim Moritz wrote: [snip...] >Better still, an absorber rather than a reflector - instead of bombarding everyone's >e-mails with junk, it could all be written to a CD-ROM, which could then be discarded >by RSGB staff at regular intervals :-) Haha! The WOM - The Write Only Memory! 73 de SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9257 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 21:38:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 21:38:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 20160 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 21:38:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 21:38:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Vgj1-0007p8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:23:03 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Vgj0-0007p3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:23:03 +0000 Received: from [213.1.102.116] (helo=default) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14Vgij-0003f7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:22:46 +0000 Message-ID: <001801c09c4c$0d76a220$9b7b073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: BEACONS: Greek navy on 135.8 QRT ? Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:19:58 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Wolf SXV is on and off at present but it was visible yesterday I believe. I have been told that the mast occupies a site that is going to be developed as an Olympic stadium, so a move could be in the wind. Maybe Costas has more information? Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com -----Original Message----- From: DL4YHF@aol.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 21 February 2001 20:50 Subject: LF: BEACONS: Greek navy on 135.8 QRT ? From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12896 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 21:37:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 21:37:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 27940 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 21:37:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 21:37:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Vgqr-0007qa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:31:09 +0000 Received: from hs-img-3.compuserve.com ([149.174.177.148] helo=sphmgaac.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Vgqq-0007qS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:31:09 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by sphmgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id QAA08381 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 16:30:20 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 16:30:01 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Datong again. To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200102211630_MC2-C65E-1F4E@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Ko, NL922 wrote: >My model can't get any better than ±2.52Hz off (in Cw) >i have better for 136 but it would be usefull for 73 soon. >Isn't it possible to replace the 4,5-70 pF C with a 5-90 pF C< ... tried to replace the x-tal tuning C of my Datong but the x-tal stops to resonate at a certain point, so also my Datong converter is off about 2.5 kHz. Only solution for me: tune to zero beat to a known station (e.g. 153 kHz) by means of the RIT, keep RIT as it is and tune to the QRG you want to listen to ... Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10540 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 21:35:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 21:35:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 22681 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 21:35:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 21:35:38 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VgjD-0007pE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:23:15 +0000 Received: from ds-img-2.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.135] helo=spdmgaab.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VgjC-0007oz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:23:14 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id QAA25296 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 16:22:27 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 16:21:37 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Reflector split?...please No. To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200102211621_MC2-C65E-1ECB@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alan, G3NYK wrote a lot of words I fully support, including >Above all, and as with Amateur Radio in general, variety of interest is our strength, and should not divide us.< I vote against splitting the reflector, as I feel positoned between all chairs or at least not solely belonging to either group. I like to read about experiments, try to understand what is behind it and conduct my own tests. On the other hand I enjoy a plain and "normal" CW QSO on LF. I would like to stay in touch with both groups and I believe that both sides do gain from each other. Neither is ham radio the pure experiment and advance in technololgy not purely chatting between hams, if you read the definitions carefully, it is both. One suggestion to those who feel their mailbox fills up too fast with LF mails: John, G3WKL or whoever hosts this reflector, can you please check if it is possible to collect all mails of one day in a so called "digest" so that we receive one single "digest" mail per day (at least on request?). Maybe this will help to keep that number of mails down. Thank you, best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26418 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 21:27:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 21:27:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 27680 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 21:27:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 21:27:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Vgfr-0007oK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:19:47 +0000 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Vgfo-0007oF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:19:44 +0000 Received: from [213.1.102.116] (helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14VgfV-00071X-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:19:25 +0000 Message-ID: <001301c09c4b$95c57580$9b7b073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: re Datong again Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:15:20 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At risk of boring some..... this may be of interest to others as well. Ko, although you CAN pull the crystal some way with the trimmer and it IS suggested in the paperwork from David Tonge I believe that is NOT the actual purpose of the tuned circuit in the oscillator. The circuit of the oscillator is a bit of a brute force cross-coupled affair using the bias, or tail, transistors in the mixer. The problem is that the feedback is enormous, and all modes of the crystal can be excited. The circuit should be tuned so that the fundamental of the crystal cannot be heard in a receiver. The fundamental will be about 25kHz above one third of the overtone frequency marked on the crystal. With heavy feedback the fundamental resonance may be excited as well. This will be you a severe problem on 73kHz (about 3 times the 25kHz) as it will appear in-band as a strong signal. Roger G2AJV had problems with this. My version does not have a problem. The circuit should be adjusted, I believe to make the maintaining amplifier degenerative at about 9MHz. In most Colpits overtone oscillators the LC in the emitter is normally tuned to geometric mean (not the mean) of the fundamental and the overtone frequencies. This means that the fundmamental feedback is attenuated whilst the overtone frequencies are accentuated. I suspect if you can pull the rock onto frequency you will not achieve this, meaning you may have some big spurious signals around. You can only try it but do look for the crystal fundamental on the Rx before you screww the lid back on! The other alternative might be to take the crystal out and build a Colpits osc with it, which you can trim only frequency......it will probably be a lot more stable too. Because of crystal heating due to the high dissipation the converter is not really stable enough for very narrow band modes. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19359 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 20:54:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 20:54:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 18128 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 20:55:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 20:55:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VgAx-0007cu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:47:51 +0000 Received: from imo-r14.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.68]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VgAu-0007cm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:47:49 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-r14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.4e.11c8a391 (7065) for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 15:46:51 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <4e.11c8a391.27c5832c@aol.com> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 15:46:36 EST Subject: LF: BEACONS: Greek navy on 135.8 QRT ? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 69 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello group, just turned the RX on to find that the FSK signal on the bottom of 136kHz has gone. Just in case anyone 'across the pond' wonders. Concerning splitting the reflector: A good point, Alan and Stewart. A kind of keyword system can help. Wolf DL4YHF. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24853 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 20:11:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 20:11:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 1913 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 20:11:08 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 20:11:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VfVO-0007Ke-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:04:54 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail-7.tiscalinet.it ([195.130.225.153] helo=mail.tiscalinet.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VfVN-0007KZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:04:54 +0000 Received: from ath650 (62.10.39.213) by mail.tiscalinet.it (5.5.015.5) id 3A83605700299FFE for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:04:01 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:04:01 +0100 (added by postmaster@mail.tiscalinet.it) Message-ID: <4.1.20010221205017.00a068b0@pop.tiscalinet.it> X-Sender: spin.elec@pop.tiscalinet.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Versione 4.1 Data: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 21:02:14 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Marco Bruno IK1ODO" Subject: Re: LF: Reflector split?...please No. In-reply-to: <000201c09c33$feb1bc60$784e7ad5@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, I agree with Alan, Alberto and others. Please, don't split the reflector! The knowlwdge and wisdom of the list is very great. Today an OM may be interested in the last issues about millihertz-wide coding, tomorrow in receiving loops or reception reports. One thing should not exclude the other; we do it for fun, not for profession! Some clever prefix to messages will help in reading, of course. The same happens in other lists (look to WUN, they use MIL, DIG, MAR, MISC to discriminate, and the traffic volume is similar to this reflector). To split will be a one-way process - this reflector is unique like the band we are using, and ban-plans and other kind of gentleman agreements would be very difficult to handle then. 73 - Marco IK1ODO (reading and saving EVERY message of this list since August 1st, 1998) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 84 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 19:50:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 19:50:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 17527 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 19:50:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 19:50:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VfBi-00079X-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:44:34 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.193.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VfBh-00079S-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:44:33 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from default (p0808.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.202.45]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA28985 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:44:11 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <200102211944.UAA28985@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 20:44:42 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Datong again. X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by smtp.wanadoo.nl id UAA28985 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, and Datong users. My model can't get any better than 12.52Hz off (in Cw) i have better for 136 but it would be usefull for 73 soon. Isn't it possible to replace the 4,5-70 pF C with a 5-90 pF C in order to just go a bit lower and pull this bugger straight on frequency. I might wrong in the values, if so pse correct me so i can gather the right parts.. Reading: MSF S-9+35dB DCF S-9+30dB HBG S-9+10dB 73 de Ko, NL9222. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15205 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 19:37:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 19:37:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 17216 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 19:37:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 19:37:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Vez4-00077u-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:31:30 +0000 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Vez0-00077p-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 19:31:26 +0000 Received: from steve (ppp182.dyn154.pacific.net.au [210.23.154.182]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id GAA30236 for ; Thu, 22 Feb 2001 06:31:06 +1100 Message-ID: <010101c09c3d$795c3cc0$0301a8c0@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000201c09c33$feb1bc60$784e7ad5@default> Subject: LF: Re: Reflector split?...please No. Date: Thu, 22 Feb 2001 06:35:28 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G'day All, Watching all the pushing and shoving on this reflector has also made me think of the splitting issue. My two cents worth (not worth much in Australian pesos at the moment ;-) are as follows:- 1. Using markers in the subject line like [QRSS] etc, to filter out sounds like a good idea. There a PIC reflector somewhere that uses this idea and I thought that this would be good. In practice it was annoying as there were many posts to inappropriate sections because you rely on the correct classification by someone else which may not line up with your definitions. I found that I was looking at the other "non-relevant sections" just make sure you weren't missing something. That defeated the whole purpose for me. Why not keep the present scheme but just clearly identify what you are addressing in the subject line ? The disadvantage of both approaches is that you are still downloading a lot of stuff that perhaps you don't want but are paying for in downloading costs. 2. The point that we need an entry point for beginners and the mass of high tech stuff would not doubt be discouraging for many is a strong one. Why don't we all agree on some common reflector site just for LF DSP ? We could move all our high tech traffic to the selected reflector and take the load off this one. There is then nothing stopping people from subscribing to what they want (both if they want). Those who don't want the high tech DSP stuff could avoid it - those who want both can subscribe to both. The only plea I would make is to *not* engage in forwarding/cross-posting as this is especially annoying. If you want to make sure nothing is missed then a periodic reminder on each reflector of the existence of the other would suffice. This allows the reader to decide what ends up in their mailbox. Things like bandplans could still be agreed on and distributed. Bandplans were in place long before the Internet. Suitable sites could be yahoo (they have taken over egroups and now require some intrusive questions to be answered), qsl.net, the Amrad reflector, or even the down-under ZL/VK group (although that is yahoo). The LowFer reflector is also available and there is an atmosphere of innovation present amongst its denizens. Why don't we agree on one site - publicise periodically where it is and make the move ? Subscribe to one or the other or both and get what you want. There is no perfect solution but there has to be a better way than spending time beating each other over the head about definitions and fine "legal" points. Better to be operating and experimenting !!!! 73s Steve Olney (VK2ZTO/AXSO - QF56IK : Lat -33 34 07, Long +150 44 40) ============================================= HomePage URLs: http://www.qsl.net/vk2zto http://www.zeta.org.au/~ollaneg Containing:- ULF, ELF, VLF & LF Experimentation InfraSonic Experimentation Laser Comms DX Amateur Radio Astronomy ============================================= From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14249 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 19:12:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 19:12:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 3397 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 19:12:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 19:12:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VeQK-0006s5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:55:36 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [194.200.20.13] (helo=mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VeQF-0006ry-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:55:31 +0000 Received: from userbu03.netscapeonline.co.uk ([62.125.145.240] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 14VeLB-0001Hr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:50:18 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A940E72.191FB971@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:52:35 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: VA3LK Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All Larry seems to be claiming that he has achieved a first qso across the atlantic according to his own rules. The majority postings on here have reservations or do not agree. If some want to bend the rules although I totally disagree then G3LDO and VE1ZZ in conjunction with VE1ZJ have a better case for claiming a FIRST. Their qso was conducted in one continuous session on the same day. Another point, what about those that have been heard in VE and W on a date before the VA3LK saga and are awaiting the oppertunity to finish the qso, surely this will be the first, since the qso started earlier and apparently there is no time limit for a finish.. The whole LF qso procedure is a shambles and needs sorting out. Until there are definite guidelines agreed by the MAJORITY operating on LF then no claim should be entertained. To date they are all a NEAR MISS. I have been a CONTINUOUSLY active radio amateur for over 50 years and have the necessary experience and qualifications to CRITICISE when I think it necessary. Play the game and avoid criticism from what ever source. Keep trying for a FIRST and no cheating or inventing rules as you go along. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22084 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 18:36:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 18:36:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 17505 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 18:36:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 18:36:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Ve2V-0006lz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:30:59 +0000 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Ve2R-0006lu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:30:56 +0000 Received: from [213.122.78.120] (helo=default) by carbon.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14Ve29-0005I8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 18:30:37 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c09c33$feb1bc60$784e7ad5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Reflector split?...please No. Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 15:52:51 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, I have been considering this thorny topic for some time as it was obvious that it would be raised sooner or later. Personally I want to see all that is written about LF, but being aware of the potential problem, I had started to distribute some postings to a 'limited circle' to avoid swamping the reflector. I am aware that this cuts off a number of people who may also have been interested in the content. I decided the most useful approach was to examine what we hope to achieve with the reflector and personally what I have gained from it. Taking these in the reverse order :- I have no active LF stations within 70 to 100 miles of me. My first 12 months was fairly discouraging as few if any of the active stations used Packet Radio. The exception being John G4GVC who gave me a lot of encouagement and helpful suggestions. Progress was still slow. Then about 2 years ago I finally connected to the Internet and joined the reflector. This proved to be a major step forward in my understanding, and enjoyment. Some of my persistent questions raised the tired comment "we've been though all this before" But many of the stalwarts were willing to spend time and patience discussing ideas with me, and passing on the accumulated wisdom. My knowledge and the performance of my station improved steadily, but better still I had a ball. The atmosphere on LF reminded of the Radio Clubs I belonged to when I first got my ticket over 40 years ago. I would not like to deprive anyone about to join our ranks of that opportunity and that experience. This reflector has grown in strength and seems to have become a world-wide centre for those interested in LF. LF opens a whole world of different opportunities, and we must not prejudge what any new or prospective member may become interested in. It is intended, I believe, as a one-stop venue for the exchange of LF information of all categories, by participants at all stages of knowledge and development. Its greatest asset is its ability to bring new stations into the group and encourage their activity. (example Rich OM2TW and Marc F6CNI, Brian CT1DRP and many others ) when local conditions are not always favourable. It is clear as the number of adherents increases and the breadth of the technology used widens there will become more and more messages on the system. Splitting the reflector up into special interest groups is an option, but from my experience of the relevance of some subject lines to the message content, it might be even more confusing. It may be that some will resort to posting everting to all the 'sub-groups' rather than try to define which group is most relevant (as happends in a lot of the newsgroups). I also think we will all loose out. Propagation might interest a lot more than just those trying to bridge the Atlantic. Aerial discussions can get very "hi-tech" but they probably interest us all in some part. So defining watertight boundaries will be difficult. There are, however, one or two things we can do to reduce the message load. I suggest that we do not use the "Reply to All" button to send a personal comment, just because its easier than finding the personal address. When using the reply button to post to the group we should be cautious about repeating the whole message. I come across very frustrating messages on some other groups that are 3 words long (IF you can find them!) but have about 10kbytes of multiple repeated messages. It is not difficult to edit these down with the cursor and the delete key, before pressing the send button. I suggest then we use the facility of filtering that I think Stewart mentioned. This requires 3 or 4 well defined keywords...maybe in capitals...that could be used in the subject field. This would allow anyone not interested in say QRSS to avoid wasting time downloading message about that topic. Also "button" replies would automatically carry the keyword, so keeping the threads together. The advantage is it would still allow these messages to be browsed by those with maybe only a peripheral interest, whilst not requiring them to keep a subscription open to 3 or 4 groups. I believe it is possible to have a help page specific to the reflector, if so, this could be edited to ensure that the details were readily available for new recruits, without them feeling they had to ask a 'silly question'. Above all, and as with Amateur Radio in general, variety of interest is our strength, and should not divide us. I appologise for the length of the message but I feel it important we consider the implications of splitting it up because, once done, it is a one-way path. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6901 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 16:44:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 16:44:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 27775 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 16:44:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 16:44:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VcBx-00062v-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 16:32:37 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mtiwmhc28.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.36]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VcBw-00062q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 16:32:36 +0000 Received: from att.net ([12.77.28.196]) by mtiwmhc28.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with ESMTP id <20010221163128.LWIV22163.mtiwmhc28.worldnet.att.net@att.net> for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 16:31:28 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A93ED65.A2F1C11F@att.net> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 11:31:33 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Argo beta 1, build 123 References: <3A93D561.BAE227E8@usa.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Beautiful! Thanks again Alberto. Dex From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15899 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 15:40:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 15:40:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 29240 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 15:40:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 15:40:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VbGh-0005jg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 15:33:27 +0000 Received: from mail2.globocabo.com.br ([200.231.181.97] helo=ntweb.globocabo.com.br) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VbGc-0005jb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 15:33:23 +0000 Received: from spovdesi1625 (SPOVD-ESI-1625 [5.8.14.13]) by ntweb.globocabo.com.br with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id FKWLNQAK; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 12:31:16 -0300 Message-ID: <00e801c09c1b$36aaff00$0d0e0805@globocabo.com.br> From: "PY3CRX PY2PLL" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: TECH: LF Converters Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 12:30:17 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi ... I've been using a MC1496 as a mixer and decided to try those SBLs from Minicircuits. But the models that cover down to few KHz are quite expensive and not available here. Re-reading the Minicircuits book I have (from 1993, 700 pages or so) they say that for some applications we can use the SIG port as output and the the IF port as input when we need to "receive from DC to several MHz". This is the case below 500KHz for cheap SBL1, SRA1, etc or even to an high intercept home made DDBM. The isolation remains more or less the same, so the SWR. I checked this inverting feature on SBL1, SRA1 and TFM2. All units gave the same insertion loss (6.5dB) and produced the same LO attenuation at receiver input (-45dBc). I use a MAV11 as post amp. The performance actually is better than the MC1496 bug (less noise) and 82Hz ZEVS signal still there, so the regular utilities on 16K, 18k2, 18k3, 19k8, 21k4, 24k0 ... and some new ones between 50K and 100K yesterday (rtty/msk). 73 Marcus PY3CRX/PY2PLL S. B. do Campo - GG66rf http://py.qsl.br Active from "DC" to 24GHz From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19044 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 14:58:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 14:58:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 29490 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 14:58:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 14:58:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VacN-0005SC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 14:51:47 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06lmsgate-3.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VacG-0005S4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 14:51:43 +0000 Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by d06lmsgate-3.uk.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id OAA92612 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 14:41:44 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (ss10.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.76]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id OAA185332 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 14:50:04 GMT Message-ID: <3A93D561.BAE227E8@usa.net> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 15:49:05 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Mailing List" Subject: LF: Argo beta 1, build 123 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, many Argo users did complain about the fact that the screen capture facility did not work, or better, it worked incorrectly, when the Argo screen was covered by other windows or a screen saver. With build 123 this has been corrected. What happens now is that, when the timeout for the capture triggers, Argo pops up for a fraction of a second from nowhere, the capture is done, then the window which previously had the focus (the foreground window) is restored. This also if a screen saver is active at the moment. There are also some minor improvements. From the Readme : Beta 1, build 123 (Feb. 21st 2001) - Screen capture now works even if the Argo window is covered by other windows. - When reloading saved settings, you don't have to type their name, but just make a choice in a list box. - CPU overload indicator now works ok, as the MasterTimer and the DoProcess routines are placed in different threads. This has also some other beneficial effects. - Frequency scale ticks algorithm slightly revised and amended. - Some code adjustments and error corrections. Build 123 is available, as usual, from : http://www.weaksignals.com About splitting the reflector, my opinion is that a single discussion forum can benefit from the synergy effects. The 'Delete' button for all those messages of little or no interest, is within the reach of anybody. In any case, should the reflector be split, my vote for the tech- one is for the DSP-Weak-Signal discussion list, hosted by qth.net, free and devoid of any advertising. Just my 2 cents (of Euro). 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17196 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 13:22:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 13:22:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 260 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 13:22:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 13:22:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VZ8t-0004u6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 13:17:15 +0000 Received: from mail6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VZ8q-0004ty-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 13:17:14 +0000 Received: from modem-123.pinnatus-batfish.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.50.123] helo=default) by mail6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14VYx8-0003DU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 13:05:07 +0000 Message-ID: <00af01c09c08$8d6a4fc0$LocalHost@default> From: "Martin Evans" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <37.10fc5a30.27c44a8b@aol.com> <002101c09b9c$2ba968a0$a07e6395@vince> <3A93855D.CEA1171D@virgin.net> Subject: Re: LF: Splitting the reflector. Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 11:42:45 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I think that Stewart has an excellent idea here. Martin Evans GW3UCJ ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stewart Bryant" To: Sent: Wednesday, February 21, 2001 9:07 AM Subject: Re: LF: Splitting the reflector. > How about in the short term we agree to put an unambiguous marker > in the subject line for the high tech postings (ie [TECH]) and then > subscribers who do not want to see the postings can filter them straight > to the bit bucket. > > Stewart G3YSX > > Vincent Ferme wrote: > > > Group, > > > > My preference is that we continue using this mailing list for all LF related > > topics. I remember the QRP group going through the same debate no once but a > > couple of times in the recent past. Other QRP mailing lists have been setup > > but they failed to solve the perceived problems. They actually caused more > > problems for people that did not want to miss anything and subscribed to > > them and ended up having to deal with lots of cross-posted messages. > > > > Respectfully submitted. > > > > 73 de Vince, VA3VF. > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27820 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 13:03:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 13:03:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 20475 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 13:03:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 13:03:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VYn4-0004kL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 12:54:42 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from bucky-rwcmex.excite.com ([198.3.99.218] helo=bucky.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VYn0-0004kE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 12:54:38 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from bronty ([199.172.153.112]) by bucky.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010221125344.WCYE9720.bucky.excite.com@bronty> for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 04:53:44 -0800 Message-ID: <4251948.982760024608.JavaMail.imail@bronty> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 04:53:36 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Higher L - higher ERP MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 213.104.149.60 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Mike, Well I don't know about all that theory, but the proof of the pudding is in the eating. You were much stronger here when you were working Steve GW4ALG at the weekend. 73, John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24053 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 11:50:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 11:50:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 8187 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 11:50:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 11:50:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VXcG-0004Ln-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 11:39:28 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout01.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.80]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VXcD-0004Li-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 11:39:25 +0000 Received: from fwd02.sul.t-online.com by mailout01.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14VXbx-0006RG-00; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 12:39:09 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.156.6.221]) by fwd02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14VXbd-0hOybgC; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 12:38:49 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <14VVKA-0qJPrUC@fwd01.sul.t-online.com> Subject: Re: LF: RE:Testing model TX aerial X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 12:38:49 +0100 Message-ID: <14VXbd-0hOybgC@fwd02.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: bernd grupe schrieb: > Hello Roger, > it would be very helpful to know the exact frequency of your beacon. I'll try > to > receive your signals over a distance about 600 ... 800 kms(locator hr is > JN49JV), but with DSP-programs as argo or spectrogram. And if you can make it > possible, please use PC-controlled CW by using QRS-Software from Rik(ON7YD) > and > 3s-dots or longer.Be sure that I'll watch your activities with great > interests. > 73 Bernd, DF8ZR > > Hallo Bernd, habe ich eine mail übersehen ? Da ich auch sehr interessiert an tests dieser art bin: wer ist Roger und auf welcher qrg sendet er ? vy 73 Uwe, dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9035 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 10:51:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 10:51:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 14625 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 10:51:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 10:51:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VWlD-00042D-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:44:39 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VWlA-000428-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:44:37 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:43:30 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:43:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Splitting the reflector. Message-ID: <3A939BD1.4635.59170D@localhost> In-reply-to: <3A93855D.CEA1171D@virgin.net> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3YSX wrote: > How about in the short term we agree to put an unambiguous marker in > the subject line for the high tech postings (ie [TECH]) and then > subscribers who do not want to see the postings can filter them > straight to the bit bucket. No need for that, privided attention is paid to the subject line. It is all too easy just to click on REPLY, and have a subject line that referred to an old story. For instance, the discussions on how to derive accurate timing from frequency standards are very boring to me, but I can usually spot them from the subject line and it takes a fraction of a second to delete them. I would not be in favour of removing such discussions from the reflector as they are very interesting to many active members of the group - just not to me. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2769 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 09:53:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 09:53:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 3247 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 09:53:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 09:53:42 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VVs1-0003gY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:47:37 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VVrz-0003gT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:47:36 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id JAA23432; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:49:26 GMT Received: (qmail 10503 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 10:39:44 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 10:39:44 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id KAA23338; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:28:46 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma023225; Wed, 21 Feb 01 10:28:18 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:51:16 +0000 Received: by frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id <18PLN84L>; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:46:45 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D75DC@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Splitting the reflector. Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:46:52 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I think it rather sad and a sorry state of affairs for amateur radio that there are people out there who may not be interested in the technical side and presumably just want to be appliance operators. I thought we were all supposed to be experimenters by virtue of the amateur licence How about, instead, the word OPER in the subject so we don't have to bother with the who-heard-who messages. Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: Stewart Bryant [mailto:stewart.bryant@virgin.net] > Sent: 2001-02-21 09:08 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: Splitting the reflector. > > > How about in the short term we agree to put an unambiguous marker > in the subject line for the high tech postings (ie [TECH]) and then > subscribers who do not want to see the postings can filter > them straight > to the bit bucket. > > Stewart G3YSX > > Vincent Ferme wrote: > > > Group, > > > > My preference is that we continue using this mailing list > for all LF related > > topics. I remember the QRP group going through the same > debate no once but a > > couple of times in the recent past. Other QRP mailing lists > have been setup > > but they failed to solve the perceived problems. They > actually caused more > > problems for people that did not want to miss anything and > subscribed to > > them and ended up having to deal with lots of cross-posted messages. > > > > Respectfully submitted. > > > > 73 de Vince, VA3VF. > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24975 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 09:26:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 09:26:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 13754 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 09:26:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 09:26:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VVKn-0003TT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:13:17 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout02.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.17]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VVKm-0003TN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:13:16 +0000 Received: from fwd01.sul.t-online.com by mailout02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14VVKU-0005qb-03; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:12:58 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0607144537-0001@[62.158.226.36]) by fwd01.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14VVKA-0qJPrUC; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:12:38 +0100 From: "bernd grupe" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE:Testing model TX aerial X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 10:12:38 +0100 Message-ID: <14VVKA-0qJPrUC@fwd01.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0607144537-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Roger, it would be very helpful to know the exact frequency of your beacon. I'll try to receive your signals over a distance about 600 ... 800 kms(locator hr is JN49JV), but with DSP-programs as argo or spectrogram. And if you can make it possible, please use PC-controlled CW by using QRS-Software from Rik(ON7YD) and 3s-dots or longer.Be sure that I'll watch your activities with great interests. 73 Bernd, DF8ZR From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24227 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 09:25:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 09:25:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 3600 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 09:25:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 09:25:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VVK0-0003TH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:12:28 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jaws.cisco.com ([198.135.0.150] helo=cisco.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VVJw-0003T5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:12:26 +0000 Received: from virgin.net (stbryant-isdn-home.cisco.com [10.49.137.202]) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA07115 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:11:37 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A9385BD.CDB719D6@virgin.net> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:09:18 +0000 From: "Stewart Bryant" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Reflector for hi tech LF discussion References: <3A91F454.4F23F726@ns.sympatico.ca> <004501c09b9b$6b299fa0$0bb21bca@xtr743187> <9a369tk2s0l33jqnqchkj7o4jvcilv29bv@4ax.com> <3A93150D.5962828D@ieee.org> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Please could you post the subscription info for LF@amrad.org Stewart G3YSX Andre' Kesteloot wrote: > The AMRAD LF reflector already exists and needs nothing to be activated: > LF@amrad.org > Andre' N4ICK > ************************************ > Nick wrote: > > > On Wed, 21 Feb 2001 13:15:01 +1300, you wrote: > > > > > > > >Does anyone have a suggestion as to how it could be hosted and activated? > > > > http://groups.yahoo.com/ > > > > is the easy way > > > > Nick From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21634 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 09:23:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 09:23:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 5585 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 09:23:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 09:23:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VVIS-0003Sp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:10:52 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jaws.cisco.com ([198.135.0.150] helo=cisco.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VVIQ-0003Sh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:10:51 +0000 Received: from virgin.net (stbryant-isdn-home.cisco.com [10.49.137.202]) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id JAA06991 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:10:01 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A93855D.CEA1171D@virgin.net> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:07:41 +0000 From: "Stewart Bryant" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Splitting the reflector. References: <37.10fc5a30.27c44a8b@aol.com> <002101c09b9c$2ba968a0$a07e6395@vince> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: How about in the short term we agree to put an unambiguous marker in the subject line for the high tech postings (ie [TECH]) and then subscribers who do not want to see the postings can filter them straight to the bit bucket. Stewart G3YSX Vincent Ferme wrote: > Group, > > My preference is that we continue using this mailing list for all LF related > topics. I remember the QRP group going through the same debate no once but a > couple of times in the recent past. Other QRP mailing lists have been setup > but they failed to solve the perceived problems. They actually caused more > problems for people that did not want to miss anything and subscribed to > them and ended up having to deal with lots of cross-posted messages. > > Respectfully submitted. > > 73 de Vince, VA3VF. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8765 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 09:12:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 09:12:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 839 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 09:12:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 09:12:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VV19-0003L6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:52:59 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout02.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.17]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VV18-0003L1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:52:59 +0000 Received: from fwd06.sul.t-online.com by mailout02.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14VV0q-0003ZM-09; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:52:40 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0607144537-0001@[193.159.2.180]) by fwd06.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14VV0l-16iqoqC; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:52:35 +0100 From: "bernd grupe" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: 1pps X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:52:35 +0100 Message-ID: <14VV0l-16iqoqC@fwd06.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0607144537-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Marcus and All, the frequency of BC 153kHz comes from a local implemented hp-synthesizer which is controlled by GPS! 73 Bernd, DF8ZR From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21099 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 09:06:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 09:06:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 19742 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 09:06:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 09:06:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VUvf-0003Jj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:47:19 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [194.200.20.13] (helo=mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VUvd-0003Je-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:47:17 +0000 Received: from userbb88.netscapeonline.co.uk ([62.125.138.222] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 14VUr0-0006lJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:42:30 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A938052.F6EB7425@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:46:10 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: Where next? References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D75CE@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Talbot Andrew wrote: > Mike's comments still seem to make the assumption that a human brain can > do better than software. Why ? > > It doesn't matter how good your eyes are at perceiving subtle > differences of tone or colour interspersed with static crashes, or ears > at hearing minute changes in a single tone, they can only see / hear > amplitude changes and are throwing away all the information contained in > the phase of the signal - 3dB worth if your interpretation is perfect > and probably a lot more. > > Why assume a machine cannot do better - the world is now full of > communication signals travelling over links that would be impossible for > analogue information. We just need to choose a scheme optimised to the > type of signalling we want to do and write software to implement it in > such a way that the average amateur (who won't build anything of course) > can just plug in and go. > > It is very arrogant to assume the human brain can always do better than > a machine just because we feel it ought to. > > PSK will do better on LF than SLOWCW DFCW etc. in similar bandwidths, > but we need to implement it properly. The US Lowfers are there, and > showed this years ago. All we need is decent frequency stability in > receiver and transmitter and a preparedness to not insist on relying > blindly on Soundcards to meet all our data comms needs. > > If the link won't support lower and lower bandwidths - the simplest > route to weak signal working - then use coding to achieve this with > wider signals. And here only machines can do the job. I can't somehow > visualise a human brain doing the Viterbi error correction algorithm in > real time from a Spectrogram > -------- > I understand there was a quote published in QST (or QEX ?) some time ago > from the FCC to the ARRL that "If amateurs did not improve their > technology they would lose spectrum". Can anyone in the US confirm > (or deny) this and point me at the reference. They have been saying this and scare mongering for as long as I can remember but in fact we have been allocated more radio spectrum and NOT LESS. This is an old Chesnut!!!!!!1 Dont fall for it !! > > > Andy G4JNT > > > -----Original Message----- > > From: Mike Dennison [mailto:mike.dennison@rsgb.org.uk] > > Sent: 2001-02-19 16:37 > > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > > Subject: LF: Where next? > > > > > > > > > ..................... One such candidate could be the Steve > > Onley's FDK. I > > > know that, theoretically, PSK can have an advantage over > > non-coherent > > > FSK, but this doesn't take into account phase distortion over very > > > long paths. But I will leave to others to discuss about > > the pros and > > > cons of the two methods. > > > 73 Alberto I2PHD > > > > A factor that is often ignored when comparing PSK08 (for instance) > > and QRSS is the difference between relying on a machine to > > interpret the results and using the brain. The spectrogram-type > > programs do wonderful work but the final 10dB or so is down to the > > brain deciding what is a valid signal and what is not, then deciding > > whether it makes sense or not. > > > > We really would have a winner if we can combine the obvious > > theoretical advantages of using FM (or phase mod) rather than AM, > > especially when noise is a significant limiting factor, with the > > advantages of a display that allows the brain to add some dBs by > > intelligently interpreting the result. > > > > For instance, how about produce a display that is the result of > > subtracting the signals and noise in a given audio band, with the > > signals and noise in another band of the same bandwidth. This might > > provide a means of reducing the effect of wideband noise such as > > static (but not random noise) on a conventional mono-frequency > > transmission by subtracting the noise in the 'no-signal' band from > > the band containing the signal. It might also provide a 'comparitor' > > effect so that FSK signals can be better detected - for a given time > > period, if the output of 'channel A' is bigger than the output of > > 'channel B' then it is a binary '1'; if the other way round > > it is a binary > > '0'.The important thing is to resist the temptation to feed > > this into a > > machine that tries its best to work out whether it is a valid > > character > > or not - this is the bit that the brain does better. > > > > > > Mike > > > > > > -- > The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence > is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). > For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, > or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is > prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29269 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 09:04:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 09:04:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 13380 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 09:04:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 09:04:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VUvw-0003K3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:47:36 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [194.200.20.13] (helo=mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VUvv-0003Jw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:47:36 +0000 Received: from userbb88.netscapeonline.co.uk ([62.125.138.222] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 14VUrJ-0006ld-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:42:50 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A938066.FD184BF@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:46:30 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: FENCE Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: HI All It is encouraging to see some getting OFF the fence and expressing an opinion about the recent activities on 136 transatlantic. It is obvious that they are not convinced that a proper qso has taken place, in spite of what some say. I like to see the enthusasism, excitement and effort that is going on trying to achieve a FIRST across the pond but we do not want a sham. Let us follow proper established qso practices. EME (TMO) for the slow morse brigade and HF/VHF (RST) for normal cw and full callsigns exchanged at the time of contact. The qso must take place at one continuous session preferably minutes but might be prolonged because of propogation conditions to a few hours but certainly not days and weeks. All LF operators are putting in a lot of effort in one way or another and it would be unfair to single out any one individual, they are all unique in their own way and there is also the chance element, the right place at the right time!!!!!!1 Bearing in mind the above criteria, good luck to those that make it across. 73 G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4284 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 09:03:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 09:03:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 13385 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 09:04:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 09:04:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VUvo-0003Jr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:47:28 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [194.200.20.13] (helo=mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VUvn-0003Jl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:47:27 +0000 Received: from userbb88.netscapeonline.co.uk ([62.125.138.222] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 14VUrA-0006lP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:42:40 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A93805C.15757CBC@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:46:20 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 73 KHz? References: <3A918DB9.E4F21DBA@att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dexter McIntyre W4DEX wrote: > Is anyone operating 73 KHz regularly? Is there any slight chance that a > ham transmission on this frequency can be heard across the pond? Hi Dexter om. You have pinched my suggestion that I listed a few days ago. I think it is possible as I said in my message, surprised you missed it!!!!!!!!!! For those with better than average antennas on LF and able to generate around 1w erp there is a good chance. Some 73 khz operators that I have heard are stronger with less power than they are on 136 khz but I have a fairly large antenna although on LF it is small in comparison to the frequency. (120 ft high) but better than the average 40 - 60 ft used by others. I have a tx built for 73 khz running about 1 kw to the antenna and will be on air as soon as I get the chance, very busy here at present and no time !!!!!!!!! G3KEV > If the > signal I am seeing on 77.5 KHz is DCF77 it is Q5 during the day and very > strong at night here in North Carolina. How can I identify DCF77? > > Dexter From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20370 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 08:55:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 08:55:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 21364 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 08:55:43 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 08:55:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VUpw-0003G0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:41:24 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from gate3.oss.akzonobel.nl ([192.87.3.7]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VUpt-0003Fu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 08:41:21 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from fwmaster@localhost) by gate3.oss.akzonobel.nl (8.9.1a/8.6.12) id JAA08337 for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:40:32 +0100 (MET) Received: by gate3.oss.akzonobel.nl via smap (V1.3) id sma007372; Wed, 21 Feb 01 09:39:51 +0100 Received: by triton.oss.akzonobel.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:39:51 +0100 Message-ID: <639D20177889D41198A600508BAD3CA1011EED3E@capella3.oss.akzonobel.nl> From: "Laken, W.H.P.A. van der \(Wil\)" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Reflector for hi tech LF discussion Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:39:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, Creating another email reflector for hi-tech activities on LF will cause more practical problems than it solves. Think about a bandplan because people might not read both streams intensively. Broadcast type of messages have to be put in twice. Even claiming a first becomes a problem.... In my opinion there is a lot of common interest in both type of discussions and I personally do not mind to skip emails that I am not interested in at that moment. Wil (PA0BWL) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13125 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 03:20:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 03:20:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 5090 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 03:21:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 03:21:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VPdk-0001c2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 03:08:28 +0000 Received: from tomts8.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.52] helo=tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VPdj-0001bx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 03:08:27 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.209.138.50]) by tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010221030738.FVYN741.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 22:07:38 -0500 Message-ID: <015701c09bb3$209ac8c0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <46.10d9991d.27c3b57c@aol.com> Subject: LF: Re: Claiming the Bobek Award? Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 22:05:15 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: David et all > Hi All, but in particular Laurie and Larry. > > Well done to both on the transatlantic QSO Marathon. > Can to clarify if you are both claiming the Peter Bobek award from the > sponsoring organizations with this QSO? Thank You David for your wishes. You also pose a very interesting question. I am travelling at the moment and for the next few days so I will have to post this when I go by Westport, I will not be able to deal with any issues raised by this reply until the weekend. When I saw your message I did a search for information on the Bobek award, in the short time I had I only found information available on the AMRAD web site. I tried to do some additional search refinements - they produced some interesting results for the Bobek name but nothing about the award. After studying the Bobek Award information on AMRAD I offer the following. First, the Award Information is mute on any process for applying for, or as you suggest "claiming" the award. I have been involved in several other prizes over the years and my response to this is that the managers/originators of the award have been mute, then it is beholding on Laurie and I to in fact keep quiet. I am sure the managers/originators of the Bobek Award have some internal process and it would therefor be very inappropriate for Laurie or myself to be "claiming" the award. There is very simply no process for us to do so within the Bobek Award information. Second, to your question, certainly Laurie and I would like to be recognized by our peers for the work we have done in this first two way LF QSO across the North Atlantic. I sensed late last year that there was a large amount of thrashing around going on in our LF community, signals could be heard both ways over the Atlantic but the completing of a QSO just did not happen. I ask you to remember that the opportunity for a QSO, using existing aural CW QSO models, did not happen over a period of about four months. In January when my signal was heard rather well in Europe - I started seeking a partner for a QSO attempt. David, you received one of those messages inquiring of you if it was time to do the trick. Simply put, Laurie and I got together and we did the trick, albeit slowly. We exchanged call signs, we exchanged reports, we acknowledged the reports we ended the QSO. We did it with our very best efforts using what was working now - even to the extent of my climbing a tall tower after dark to effect repairs so the QSO process could continue. There are now stakes in the ground for those who come next to follow and improve on. Our work will be improved upon, but for the moment we are first and that is a simple fact. The model for a QSO is interesting, their are both traditions and processes used by many groups in amateur radio. No existing QSO processes accommodate 90 second and 180 second information bits. We have entered new ground - new QSO processes are needed to deal with the new ground. David, your question was asked in public, I have answered in public for Laurie and myself. Recognition by our peers would be great, however the first two way LF QSO over the North Atlantic has now occurred. The next QSO over the North Atlantic will improve and press beyond what we have done, it will be at the end of the day be the second two way LF QSO over the North Atlantic. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28243 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 03:19:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 03:19:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 10795 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 03:19:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 03:19:55 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VPg6-0001cW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 03:10:54 +0000 Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VPg5-0001cR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 03:10:53 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.98.10d27793 (16786) for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 22:10:00 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <98.10d27793.27c48b87@aol.com> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 22:09:59 EST Subject: Re: LF: QRS software To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 2/20/01 10:24:45 AM Eastern Standard Time, rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be writes: << Is anyone currently using the QSK facility ? The combination of QSK and precise timing will cause some major changes in the programme (and some extra hours of work). I am willing to keep the QSK facility if there is some interest in this option, otherwise I will abandon QSK. In case you want me to keep the QSK option, please let me know. >> I hate to cause a fellow programmer to have to endure hours of extra work, but I would very much encourage keeping the QSK facility. As dot lengths get longer and longer, it seems to me the QSK facility MUST eventually be used, or we'll reach the point where even the simplest signal report will exceed the length of likely QSB maxima. Just as it took nearly two years for QRS to catch on over here, it may take even a while longer for the true value of the QSK feature to be widely recognized. But I am convinced that it will eventually happen. 73, John From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21584 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 01:38:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 01:38:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 7088 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 01:38:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 01:38:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VNzx-00015D-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 01:23:17 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp4vepub.gte.net ([206.46.170.25] helo=smtp4ve.mailsrvcs.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VNzw-000158-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 01:23:16 +0000 Received: from ieee.org (client-151-200-111-158.bellatlantic.net [151.200.111.158]) by smtp4ve.mailsrvcs.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id BAA1430176; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 01:27:30 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A93150D.5962828D@ieee.org> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 20:08:30 -0500 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Reflector for hi tech LF discussion References: <3A91F454.4F23F726@ns.sympatico.ca> <004501c09b9b$6b299fa0$0bb21bca@xtr743187> <9a369tk2s0l33jqnqchkj7o4jvcilv29bv@4ax.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The AMRAD LF reflector already exists and needs nothing to be activated: LF@amrad.org Andre' N4ICK ************************************ Nick wrote: > On Wed, 21 Feb 2001 13:15:01 +1300, you wrote: > > > > >Does anyone have a suggestion as to how it could be hosted and activated? > > http://groups.yahoo.com/ > > is the easy way > > Nick From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10297 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 01:25:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 01:25:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 23693 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 01:25:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 01:25:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VNml-00010g-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 01:09:39 +0000 Received: from chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VNmk-00010b-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 01:09:38 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-1-205.easynet.co.uk [195.40.206.205]) by chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id BAFACF818F for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 01:09:18 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000901c09ba3$6b99f400$cdce28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Cross-band Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 01:11:46 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Just completed a QRSS cross-band QSO with VE1ZZ (0030z on 21/2/01). He was on his usual frequency of 136.5kHz with 3s dots and I was on 3512kHz. LF conditions were poor and although we started at 2200 we had to wait for over two hours for the conditions to improve. I used my LF antenna on 80m, which puts a 599 signal into VE. A G3LNP loop was used for receiving. To encourage Jack to be more active and have more QSOs I have asked him to transmit more regularly and to listen on 3512kHz. He will be transmitting just his call but if he hears anyone he will transmit their call with a report. At the moment he is using the RST system but we might ask him to change to something else. Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15635 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 00:54:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 00:54:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 15114 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 00:54:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 00:54:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VNRv-0000tV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 00:48:07 +0000 Received: from phoenix.coastalnet.com ([216.10.160.35]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VNRt-0000tQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 00:48:05 +0000 Received: from wd4kpd (pm-wsh3-125.coastalnet.com [205.245.121.125]) by phoenix.coastalnet.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA11499 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 19:47:14 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <00a501c09b9f$e8d74020$7d79f5cd@wd4kpd> From: "David Michael Gaytko" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: QRS software Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 22:22:27 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: not using qsk here, but sure would like soundcard output !!! please... david -----Original Message----- From: Rik Strobbe To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 15:55 GMT Subject: LF: QRS software >At the moment I am working on a new version of QRS that allows longer >dotlengths (up to 1 hour/dot) and has more precise timing. > >As I hope to reach most users of QRS via this reflector I have one question : >Is anyone currently using the QSK facility ? > >The combination of QSK and precise timing will cause some major changes in >the programme (and some extra hours of work). I am willing to keep the QSK >facility if there is some interest in this option, otherwise I will abandon >QSK. >In case you want me to keep the QSK option, please let me know. > >73, Rik ON7YD > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29748 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 00:46:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 00:46:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 15984 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 00:46:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 00:46:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VNKk-0000ov-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 00:40:42 +0000 Received: from berlinr.pccon.net ([209.5.194.99] helo=berlinr.sprint.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VNKj-0000oq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 00:40:41 +0000 Received: from vince ([149.99.126.160]) by berlinr.sprint.ca (InterMail vM.5.01.01.04 201-252-108-20000901) with SMTP id <20010221004730.FHUH20131.berlinr.sprint.ca@vince> for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 19:47:30 -0500 Message-ID: <002901c09b9e$a1ad4880$a07e6395@vince> From: "Vincent Ferme" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3A91F454.4F23F726@ns.sympatico.ca> <004501c09b9b$6b299fa0$0bb21bca@xtr743187> Subject: LF: Re: Reflector for hi tech LF discussion Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 19:38:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Bob, There are a number of free mailing list hosts out there, the downside is that the server pastes an ad on each message in exchange for the service. Try www.egroups.com or www.listbot.com . There is one exception, that is www.qth.net , free and no ads. 73 de Vince, VA3VF. ----- Original Message ----- From: "Vernall" > Does anyone have a suggestion as to how it could be hosted and activated? > > 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15520 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 00:45:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 00:45:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 13385 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 00:45:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 00:45:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VNK2-0000oR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 00:39:58 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from typhoon.mail.pipex.net ([158.43.128.27]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VNK1-0000oL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 00:39:58 +0000 Received: (qmail 28847 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 00:39:40 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usercc06.uk.uudial.com (62.188.151.18) by smtp-2.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 00:39:40 -0000 From: "Nick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Reflector for hi tech LF discussion Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 00:38:36 +0000 Message-ID: <9a369tk2s0l33jqnqchkj7o4jvcilv29bv@4ax.com> References: <3A91F454.4F23F726@ns.sympatico.ca> <004501c09b9b$6b299fa0$0bb21bca@xtr743187> In-reply-to: <004501c09b9b$6b299fa0$0bb21bca@xtr743187> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On Wed, 21 Feb 2001 13:15:01 +1300, you wrote: > >Does anyone have a suggestion as to how it could be hosted and activated? http://groups.yahoo.com/ is the easy way Nick From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1637 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 00:37:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 00:37:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 18160 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 00:37:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 00:37:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VNCv-0000nW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 00:32:37 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout01.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.80]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VNCu-0000nQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 00:32:36 +0000 Received: from fwd04.sul.t-online.com by mailout01.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14VNCd-0004OV-01; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 01:32:19 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.156.6.193]) by fwd04.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14VNCW-1UOht2C; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 01:32:12 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20010220161231.234787ae@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: Re: LF: QRS software X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 01:32:12 +0100 Message-ID: <14VNCW-1UOht2C@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik Strobbe schrieb: > At the moment I am working on a new version of QRS that allows longer > dotlengths (up to 1 hour/dot) and has more precise timing. > > As I hope to reach most users of QRS via this reflector I have one question : > Is anyone currently using the QSK facility ? > > The combination of QSK and precise timing will cause some major changes in > the programme (and some extra hours of work). I am willing to keep the QSK > facility if there is some interest in this option, otherwise I will abandon > QSK. > In case you want me to keep the QSK option, please let me know. > > 73, Rik ON7YD > > Hi Rik, I use ur qrs-progr since several months for antenna tests; i.e. beaconing the tx (vy low pwr) and taking the fieldstrength far away. and so I will do I guess the next years ! imposs. without ur progr., Rik.tks for it. if I have got a wish free: the dot length of max 60000 msec could be higher for the purpose I use it. regards Uwe, dj8wx, qsl.net/dj8wx From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2978 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 00:29:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 00:29:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 28811 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 00:29:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 00:29:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VN3m-0000j6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 00:23:10 +0000 Received: from orval.pccon.net ([209.5.194.98] helo=orval.sprint.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VN3l-0000j1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 00:23:09 +0000 Received: from vince ([149.99.126.160]) by orval.sprint.ca (InterMail vM.5.01.01.04 201-252-108-20000901) with SMTP id <20010221002953.ETFG8605.orval.sprint.ca@vince> for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 19:29:53 -0500 Message-ID: <002101c09b9c$2ba968a0$a07e6395@vince> From: "Vincent Ferme" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <37.10fc5a30.27c44a8b@aol.com> Subject: LF: Splitting the reflector. Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 19:20:59 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Group, My preference is that we continue using this mailing list for all LF related topics. I remember the QRP group going through the same debate no once but a couple of times in the recent past. Other QRP mailing lists have been setup but they failed to solve the perceived problems. They actually caused more problems for people that did not want to miss anything and subscribed to them and ended up having to deal with lots of cross-posted messages. Respectfully submitted. 73 de Vince, VA3VF. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2630 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 00:14:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 00:14:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 4957 invoked from network); 21 Feb 2001 00:14:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 21 Feb 2001 00:14:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VMr4-0000eN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 00:10:02 +0000 Received: from mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.17]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VMr2-0000dy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 00:10:00 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.178.82]) by mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010221000910.MASN4912120.mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 13:09:10 +1300 Message-ID: <004501c09b9b$6b299fa0$0bb21bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3A91F454.4F23F726@ns.sympatico.ca> Subject: LF: Reflector for hi tech LF discussion Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 13:15:01 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, I too support the idea of having a reflector site with the principle objective of discussing "high tech" modes for LF. It is not that I do not support other facets of amateur activity, but I can't ignore that high tech advancement has a high attraction. Does anyone have a suggestion as to how it could be hosted and activated? 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18763 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 23:50:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 23:50:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 15431 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 23:50:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 23:50:20 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VMRR-0000QK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 23:43:33 +0000 Received: from [192.139.219.10] (helo=claven.fanshawec.on.ca) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VMRP-0000QF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 23:43:31 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [198.96.18.31] by claven.fanshawec.on.ca with ESMTP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:42:16 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:43:39 +0000 Subject: Re: LF: Fw: Active antenna From: "Mitch Powell" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Re: LF: Fw: Active antenna

------
I have sent a similar text, together with a circuit diagram, to the reflector before but it may have been too long for distribution.

Hello Dick:
I have made several attempts to download the circuits -
 but something is not working - hi !
If you have the diagrams, can you send as an attachment
directly ?

Thanks
73
Mitch  VE3OT
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6641 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 22:42:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 22:42:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 16799 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 22:42:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 22:42:13 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VLLs-00006q-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 22:33:44 +0000 Received: from imo-r15.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.69]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VLLq-00006l-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 22:33:42 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-r15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.37.10fc5a30 (3857) for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:32:44 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <37.10fc5a30.27c44a8b@aol.com> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:32:43 EST Subject: LF: Re: Recent postings, splitting the reflector To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 69 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Concerning Andre's and (YMC-) Dave's proposal to split the reflector: That's exactly what I have been thinking about (but never dared to suggest :-). It has been stated a few weeks ago what the original intention of the reflector was, and IMHO things seem to drift away from that. Splitting up the reflector (by setting up a new reflector for the 'hi-tech' stuff and letting this reflector for what it was intended to be) would be good for both sides of the 'LF activity spectrum'. It would certainly speed up the development of new modes, because one wouldn't have to think about "how far can i go into detail in this mail without boring 99% of the readers'. Anyway, if the creation of a second reflector is possible or not, thanks to the guys at blacksheep for hosting THIS reflector. Wolf (DL4YHF, DF0WD). From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4132 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 21:20:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 21:20:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 16723 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 21:20:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 21:20:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VK4S-0008Be-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 21:11:40 +0000 Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.43]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VK4Q-0008BY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 21:11:39 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.102.17]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010220211121.BJNJ10171.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 21:11:21 +0000 Message-ID: <000801c09b81$a093c860$116668d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3A92A910.108E46E9@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: TR QSO Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 21:10:54 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: GI3KEV wrote: > As John points out EME procedure(TMO reporting) means full callsigns and > reports must be fully exchanged between the two parties ......... ....... > On the vhf and hf bands a qso also means the same thing but using the > RST procedure. What rubbish. Thousands of QSOs take place on the HF bands, especially during contests and DXpeditions where neither station sends both calls, and the report is always 599 no matter what the RST really is. This is considered absolutely normal practice. Just try sending both calls on the frequency of the D68C expedition and see what happens to you! To be valid, a QSO must include the exchange of some information not previously known. This was the T, M or O report. There must also be no abiguity about who is being worked. Unless someone else with a similar callsign claims to have been on the precise frequency with a good signal, there seems no doubt whatsoever, that what was received came from the right stations. A 160m sked where calls are known in advance and 599 is exchanged is much less valid than what Larry and Laurie did. Whether the timescale made it valid is a separate issue, but don't compare with HF procedures - it doesn't work. Mike, G3XDV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6704 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 20:30:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 20:30:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 6022 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 20:30:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 20:30:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VJM6-0007wV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 20:25:50 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jaws.cisco.com ([198.135.0.150] helo=cisco.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VJM5-0007wQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 20:25:49 +0000 Received: from virgin.net (uxb-dhcp-198-135-1-192.cisco.com [198.135.1.192]) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id UAA21380 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 20:25:00 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A92D20F.21E2D49F@virgin.net> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 20:22:40 +0000 From: "Stewart Bryant" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: TR QSO References: <3A92A910.108E46E9@netscapeonline.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > > Others involved in amateur radio and especially LF might like to express > an opinion about what constitutes a valid qso. Since the purpose of the QSO is to demonstrate that a communications link was established between a pair of stations, isn't a QSO defined as the unambiguous bilateral exchange of callsign and a single piece of unique information. The important property of the unique information is that it must not be exchanged on the out-of-band link (ie Internet, HF calling frequency etc). Normally the unique information is the signal report in the appropriate format for the mode. I do not think that any time limit is appropriate, nor do I think that it needs to be exchanged in one go. In normal operating (for example VHF contests) it is quite common to piece together the call over a number of overs, and to correct locator information from monitoring the other station later on when there is less QSB. Thus in current VHF practise a contact may be scored which in effect took 24 hrs. What is important is that the unique information is unambiguously exchanged on the band in question. I do not think that it is important that the unique info is a signal report, in fact it would be a much better test if it were a set of random numbers. 73 Stewart G3YSX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24351 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 20:13:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 20:13:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 25007 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 20:13:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 20:13:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VJ5D-0007rB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 20:08:23 +0000 Received: from mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VJ58-0007r6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 20:08:18 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.178.12]) by mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010220200757.YCCC6484737.mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:07:57 +1300 Message-ID: <004e01c09b79$b6ece360$5bb21bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3A924291.19929.36D306@localhost> Subject: LF: Re: Higher L - higher ERP Date: Wed, 21 Feb 2001 09:12:51 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike and others, OK on the elevated loading coil. I'm not convinced that hard results support your claims: > Yesterday, I reported that I had increased my mast-head > inductance so that the antennna was almost self-resonant. The new > coil introduced resistive losses and the current reduced, but reports > were better than before. If I recall, you said that the changed current distribution was an explanation for the reduced value of current at the feedpoint, which was incorrect. Current is dependent on "loop resistance" at resonance. > Last night, Jim, M0BMU measured my field strength compared to a > measurement taken two weeks ago. It was 0.9dB up. That is very similar to some tests I did some time back, at 181 kHz, with a temporary top loading. > This does not account for the greatly improved reports, Quite so. 0.9 dB hardly shifts the S meter. > but it does > show that with less current and more resistive losses, the only way > the ERP could have increased is if the 'effective height' had > increased. Yes. The net result of decreased current because of increased loop resistance (a top loading coil necessarily needs higher inductance (more wire) than a base loading coil) and the improved current distribution in the vertical wire. The effective height factor is just winning out over current reduction, by some 0.9 dB. >Field strength is of course directly proportional to current > squared multiplied by effective height (h) squared. True for radiated power. Field strength is directly proportional to the product of current and effective height (amp metres). > At last here is real evidence that the elevated coil really does > increase the 'h' part of the equation. Several of us were sure that it > did, and several have noticed improvements in our signals when > using elevated coils, but the evidence has always been anecdotal. And still appears to be the case. The same "gain" should be observed on transmit and receive (being wary that local noise could be different at each end of a path). There is still the matter of adequately housing the elevated loading coil and sustaining good insulation at high RF voltages. The weight of a coil usually means it needs to be supported by a tower or mast. Antenna modelling shows that if the vertical feed to a T antenna is near metalwork, it caused shunt capacitance that pulls down the gain by about 1 dB. Tuning (and re-tuning) of the loading coil is somewhat inconvenient when it up in the air. One situation not amenable to modelling (with NEC-2) is when there is clutter around the vertical wire. It seems that clutter causes disproportionate losses from "soakage" as the high field strength part of the wire rises above ground. Some experimenters have reported significant improvement by relocating the "upwire" to being in a clearer environment. A similar effect would arise with an elevated loading coil, as the potential on the "upwire" is considerably lower than for a base loading coil installation. However, all of these environmental factors should show up in impedance data and gain measurements. I have observed the construction technique a number of LF NDB stations, from visits and photographs. None have elevated loading coils. All have clear sites. I'm not against experimentation and developing better antennas that fit in our back yards. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3359 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 19:08:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 19:08:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 14727 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 19:08:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 19:08:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VI4p-0007WS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 19:03:55 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [194.200.20.13] (helo=mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VI4o-0007WN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 19:03:54 +0000 Received: from userau78.netscapeonline.co.uk ([62.125.136.27] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 14VI0E-00023Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:59:11 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A92A910.108E46E9@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:27:45 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: TR QSO Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello all As John points out EME procedure(TMO reporting) means full callsigns and reports must be fully exchanged between the two parties at the time of contact, which does not mean days or weeks later when someone has put together bits and pieces of callsigns and reports. On the vhf and hf bands a qso also means the same thing but using the RST procedure. If I am correct, Larry claims the first transatlantic qso has taken place. Who made it ? and what rules applied ? TMO reporting or RST with full call signs exchanged. If this is not the case then what procedures were followed and who invented or agreed them. Since I am a keen LF operator with 21 countries worked to date on 136 khz and 167 on 160 metres I used the established RST procedure with full callsigns and reports exchanged and each qso lasted only a few minutes at the most. For a qso to be VALID regardless of circumstances we must stick to established procedures to be fair to all involved. The rules cannot be made up as we go along and LF is no different to obstacles encountered on other bands especially the very high GHZ bands and EME etc. Others involved in amateur radio and especially LF might like to express an opinion about what constitutes a valid qso. I can assure you that I am not the only one that thinks this way and I will be sticking to the established rules for any qso transatlantic or otherwise. 73 de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3379 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 19:08:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 19:08:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 14759 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 19:08:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 19:08:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VI4n-0007WL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 19:03:53 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [194.200.20.13] (helo=mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VI4l-0007WG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 19:03:51 +0000 Received: from userau78.netscapeonline.co.uk ([62.125.136.27] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 14VI07-00022y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:59:04 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A923590.765D9747@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:14:56 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: transatlantic qso References: <3A91F454.4F23F726@ns.sympatico.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John Currie wrote: > Hi all, I am writing this email with great trepidation. Firstly what > I am about to write could be to my benefit because I have been involved > with a previous claim for a transatlantic exchange of information. I > must, however, say what I firmly believe. As stated in a previous > email Earth Moon Earth (EME) operators , the inventors of the TMO system > of weak signal reports along with other weak, or itermittent, signal > operators such as meteor scatter operators have all called for an > exchange of COMPLETE calls plus a signal report as the minimum > requirement for a QSO. This is my point and others that I have spoken to agree for a credible qso the full callsign and report must be exchanged and not bits and pieces at different times. > > They have also never to my knowledge looked at 8 or ten days > of data to pile up enough dots and dashes to constitute a QSO Again I have said many times that a qso must be made at a single session and not collate bits and pieces over several days or weeks. In my opinion anyone claiming to make a qso out of bits and pieces of information transmitted and received over days and weeks is not VALID. If the information that I read on this reflector/list regarding recent claims for a transatlantic first qso between the UK and Canada is correct then it was made under the bits and pieces criteria and took nearly 2 weeks and not valid in my opinion. The operator at each end knew what callsign to expect and therefore only one or two letters were needed and fill in the rest. It would be a different story if the callsigns were NOT known in advance, this type of qso could not take place. I suggest a NEW start and follow the established EME procedures or the 160 metre normal HF system. > . > I feel the most that cas be ascribed to the marathon effort > is four or five > 25 per cent completed QSOs. This small percentage hardly constitutes a valid qso, on any other band it would be a FAILED attempt. > > 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11410 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 18:30:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 18:30:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 5299 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 18:30:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 18:30:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VHTA-0007HS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:25:00 +0000 Received: from mail2.globocabo.com.br ([200.231.181.97] helo=ntweb.globocabo.com.br) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VHT8-0007HN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 18:24:58 +0000 Received: from spovdesi1625 (SPOVD-ESI-1625 [5.8.14.13]) by ntweb.globocabo.com.br with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id FCL8AZ0N; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 15:24:00 -0300 Message-ID: <001601c09b6a$2d8c9340$0d0e0805@globocabo.com.br> From: "PY3CRX PY2PLL" To: "LF Group" References: <3A92A6BD.7336.1BE21CF@localhost> Subject: Re: LF: Some signals Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 15:21:31 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Mike ... > Do you see DBF39 on 138.830kHz. This is a carrier, interrupted by > data bursts every few seconds. Monitoring this station will give you a > good indication of whether amateur signals will be visible. If it is > above S5, you may have a chance. I need to check. I was not watching 138.83 at this time. I think I've logged DCF39 sometime ago and some other utility stations between 120 and 140Khz - RTTYs, MSKs, etc , but on a lower frequency, 129KHz I suppose. The Algerian BC peaks S8 sometimes (100Hz filter) but it's a 2MW station (ERP?). Anyway, it's summer here and every day we have tropical shower around 18:00 UTC - it lasts for an hour or so - but its effects remains all night long - static crashes - dropping at 07:00 UTC. May be I need to wait for autumn / winter, which is the dry period here (40 ... 90 days with no rain at all). Thanks on the info. 73 Marcus PY3CRX/PY2PLL S. B. do Campo - GG66rf http://py.qsl.br Active from "DC" to 24GHz From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23293 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 17:56:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 17:56:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 7452 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 17:56:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 17:56:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VGvc-00075X-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:50:20 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.92]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VGvZ-00075S-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:50:17 +0000 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by anchor-post-34.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14VGvI-000FEx-0Y for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:50:00 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A92AED9.17DE1FBD@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:52:25 +0000 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: transatlantic qso References: <3A91F454.4F23F726@ns.sympatico.ca> <00c301c09b19$0b8ab020$1601a8c0@maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Petr OK1FIG wrote: > > I hope the reflector is a place where everybody can say his word without > being afraid. I would burn myself into exhilaration to celebrate the > first 2-way QSO, but the fact that it took so long prevents me from that. > After a big hesitation I must admit that I agree with John. > It doesn't mean that this QSO had no meaning. No doubt it is another step > forward. Congrats to both operators. Petr, I think that you have expressed very well the thoughts of most of us. Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3846 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 17:34:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 17:34:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 9447 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 17:34:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 17:34:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VGVx-0006uE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:23:49 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VGVi-0006u4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:23:35 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:17:52 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:17:49 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Some signals Message-ID: <3A92A6BD.7336.1BE21CF@localhost> In-reply-to: <015d01c09a82$e85849a0$0d0e0805@globocabo.com.br> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > I think I got some signals when monitoring 135.920. I set up Argo to > watch from 800Hz (135920) to 806Hz (135926), 60 second dot, slow. > Marcus > PY3CRX/PY2PLL Do you see DBF39 on 138.830kHz. This is a carrier, interrupted by data bursts every few seconds. Monitoring this station will give you a good indication of whether amateur signals will be visible. If it is above S5, you may have a chance. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29525 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 17:31:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 17:31:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 6421 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 17:31:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 17:31:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VGSd-0006th-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:20:23 +0000 Received: from ds-img-7.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.153] helo=spdmbaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VGSc-0006tF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:20:22 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmbaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id MAA23398 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:19:35 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:19:12 -0500 From: "boffin1" Subject: LF: Testing model TX aerial To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200102201219_MC2-C634-71AE@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have recently constructed a model prototype of a new design of transmitting antenna and I will be very grateful for any reports of reception. This aerial is not intended to compete with a tall Marconi for it is only 10 to 20 cms above the ground and the present model is only 2 metres long. When the weather is more clement and when I have made it weatherproof, I hope to extend it in the garden. Meanwhile there is a very slight chance that test signals may be faintly received from the indoor model and I shall be extremely grateful for ANY report. The aerial will be fed with about 150 watts from a valve tx and will be keyed as a beacon with a home-made mechanical sender carved with the message "test de g2ajv" at about 5 wpm. The tx is vfo controlled but the frequency is dictated primarily by the high Q of the aerial and at the present time I cannot quote an exact frequency but it is likely to be between 136 and 137 kHz. I sincerely hope that this aerial may one day help those who cannot attain the Scarborough heights and it may shed a little understanding on the ground loss phenomenon. I will endeavour to turn on the beacon for at least half an hour at 0730 Z, 1200 Z and 2200 Z for the next few days but test transmissions may also occur at other times. I am grateful for your forebearance. Roger, G2AJV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28299 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 17:26:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 17:26:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 29397 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 17:26:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 17:26:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VGOM-0006sp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:15:58 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VGOJ-0006sk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:15:56 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14VGO2-0000nM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:15:38 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <14546.200102201715@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:19:56 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: ERP In-reply-to: <3A929576.FC8C479C@virgin.net> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Stewart, LF Group, > G3YSX> I thought that the Puckeridge test showed this, ie that your > smaller antenna had a higher field strength than you expected. Yes it did, but only by about 1.5dB as I recall - this would be within the limits of experimental error. The thing about Puckeridge was that it was a near ideal site - moist soil, open fields for miles and so on - where you might expect good results. Indeed, when I put the same antenna up at home, and repeated the experiment, the field strength was down on the calculated value by about 4dB, so there was 5dB or so lost just by moving the antenna to a less ideal location. A loss of several dB compared to calculated values is typical for field strength measurements on "back garden" antennas, such as mine and G3XDV's, and some bigger ones too, like the MB2HFC antenna at Windsor. There are some plausible explanations as to why the field strength of the small antenna at Puckeridge could have "higher than theoretical" efficiency, such as increased effective height due to the skin depth of the ground being significant compared to the physical height of the antenna at LF. There are also plausible reasons why antennas in built up areas give lower field strength, such as absorbtion by surroundings. High ground wave losses in urban areas are well known to MF broadcast people. Unfortunately, the losses seem to win over the gains for most of us. However, there is not really enough experimental data of high accuracy to say much more than that. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28141 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 17:26:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 17:26:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 21293 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 17:26:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 17:26:45 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VGPu-0006sw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:17:34 +0000 Received: from hs-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.177.150] helo=sphmgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VGPs-0006sr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 17:17:33 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by sphmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id MAA14462 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:16:46 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:16:31 -0500 From: "boffin1" Subject: LF: RE: Where next? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200102201216_MC2-C634-718A@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Oh dear, Whatever is happening to HAM radio! Roger, G2AJV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12867 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 16:29:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 16:29:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 23881 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 16:29:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 16:29:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VFX8-0006XQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 16:20:58 +0000 Received: from mail2.globocabo.com.br ([200.231.181.97] helo=ntweb.globocabo.com.br) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VFX2-0006Wy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 16:20:54 +0000 Received: from spovdesi1625 (SPOVD-ESI-1625 [5.8.14.13]) by ntweb.globocabo.com.br with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id FCL8AXQP; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:19:32 -0300 Message-ID: <002701c09b58$cab28ba0$0d0e0805@globocabo.com.br> From: "PY3CRX PY2PLL" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: 1pps Markers Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:17:22 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------040205040808010208070809" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------040205040808010208070809 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi ...
 
While I was waiting for my sound card "warm up", I tunned to the broadcast carrier on 153KHz. Then I decided to feed the 1pps from my GPS to upconverter antenna port via 120pf capacitor.

 
Above is the result. The rising edges produced 152997, 152999, 153001, 153003 etc ... and the falling edge the even lines (802Hz is the most visible). I checked at 180s mode and even with the drift the 153K + 1pps marker agree within 0 (zero) hertz tolerance ...
 
73
Marcus, PY2PLL(Base) / PY3CRX (Mobile)
GG66rf - S. B. do Campo - SP
hampage => <http://py.qsl.br>
e-mail => py2pll@py.qsl.br <mailto:py2pll@py.qsl.br>
Active from DC to 24GHz
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30Pn8/DbxZ/0Cf8AyZi/+Ko/4Vt4s/6BX/kzF/8AFV9AUVPs0R7RniX/AAgXif8AsL7N/Zf7 7z9237RF0x1zuxWcvw48WKf+QTn/ALeIv/iq9+oojTUXoa1cRKdr9FY8Cb4ceK2OV0jHt9pi /wDiq0R4E8ULof2caYPPE+/HnxdMdc7sV7ZRTlTu02KliXC9lurGV8OruDwd4bs7a58G3R1h FkSe9tltN0itIWCmQyhiMbBg/wB0egrsv+FiL/0LGuf99Wn/AMfrCopOmjP2jN3/AIWGv/Qs a5/31af/AB+j/hYa/wDQsa5/31af/H6wqKPZoPaM3v8AhYa/9Cxrn/fVp/8AH6KwaKPZoPaM /9k= --------------040205040808010208070809-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 835 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 16:22:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 16:22:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 12478 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 16:22:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 16:22:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VFSe-0006TT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 16:16:20 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VFSc-0006TO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 16:16:18 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 16:06:37 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 16:06:34 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Reflector Message-ID: <3A92960A.27564.17CE73A@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: A couple of recent comments have suggested that RSGB HQ hosts this reflector. In fact it is run on behalf of the RSGB by the guys at blacksheep.org, most of whom are VHF contesters. We certainly owe them a debt of gratitude for the service provided. RSGB HQ can and does host reflectors, but these are mostly for committee work. By the way, blacksheep is the name of an excellent bottled ale which I understand is much loved by these contesters. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21002 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 16:12:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 16:12:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 7645 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 16:12:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 16:12:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VFJv-0006Rd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 16:07:19 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jaws.cisco.com ([198.135.0.150] helo=cisco.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VFJt-0006RU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 16:07:17 +0000 Received: from virgin.net (uxb-dhcp-198-135-1-192.cisco.com [198.135.1.192]) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id QAA27105 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 16:06:26 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A929576.FC8C479C@virgin.net> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 16:04:06 +0000 From: "Stewart Bryant" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: ERP / LF - where next References: <4022.200102201550@gemini> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3YSX wrote: >Also if you think back to the RSGB convention, there was one >paper that suggested that we are massively overestimating the >efficiency of our antennas. If that work holds up, then we will have >to drop power to conform to the licence ERP condition...... I think this is the wrong way round - G3YSX > Yes, I did get it the wrong way round. I meant to say that small antennas are more efficient than we calculate. if we are overestimating efficiency, that means we are getting less ERP than we think we are, and would have to increase power to reach the 1W ERP limit. ERP is essentially defined in terms of the field strength at some distance that is produced by an antenna, and available field strength measurements tend to show that using the radiation resistance/antenna current formulae do indeed overestimate the ERP by about 0 - 10dB. Prof. Mike Underhill's work suggests small antennas may be more efficient than we think, but the experimental evidence does not support this, at least in the context of typical amateur LF installations. G3YSX> I thought that the Puckeridge test showed this, ie that your smaller antenna had a higher field strength than you expected. Stewart G3YSX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5048 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 16:00:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 16:00:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 26929 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 16:00:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 16:00:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VF4h-0006LH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 15:51:35 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VF4G-0006L9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 15:51:08 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14VF3y-0005lm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 15:50:50 +0000 Message-ID: <4022.200102201550@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 15:55:09 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: ERP / LF - where next X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group,

G3YSX wrote:
>Also if you think back to the RSGB convention, there was one >paper that suggested that we are massively overestimating the >efficiency of our antennas. If that work holds up, then we will have >to drop power to conform to the licence ERP condition......

I think this is the wrong way round - if we are overestimating efficiency, that means we are getting less ERP than we think we are, and would have to increase power to reach the 1W ERP limit. ERP is essentially defined in terms of the field strength at some distance that is produced by an antenna, and available field strength measurements tend to show that using the radiation resistance/antenna current formulae do indeed overestimate the ERP by about 0 - 10dB. Prof. Mike Underhill's work suggests small antennas may be more efficient than we think, but the experimental evidence does not support this, at least in the co ntext of typical amateur LF installations.
________________________________________________

I am glad I am not one of the judges for the LF transatlantic awards. Clearly some communications have taken place, using what are now quite well established and widely used techniques. Whether this constitutes a QSO is just down to interpretation of the rules, and everybody seems to have a different idea of what the rules should be. I think what we have seen since last September are incremental steps in transatlantic communications, but there will never be a single moment when everyone agrees the Atlantic was bridged. Marconi went home happy after hearing the letter 'S' a few times; it took a few more years before he was able to send messages both ways routinely.

It is clear the QSOs that have been achieved are very marginal, and there is plenty of scope for improvement. Part of this is just logistics; for example, the strongest transatlantic QRSS signal is undoubtedly VE1ZZ's, but Jack does not appear to have equipment to receive this mode. The lack of a generally available 136kHz segment in North America and other parts of the world restricts the possible activity. The length of time required for a QSO, and the times at which propagation is optimum are obstacles in themselves. However, there are also many technical improvements that can be made; QRSS has worked very well, mostly because it is simple to implement and tolerant of many imperfections of the signal and it's channel, but the last few weeks have shown we are approaching the practical limits of this mode's capability. Although 1W ERP is only a minuscule signal when compared with other amateur bands, it is still difficult to achieve at LF most of the time. Most techniques and equipment have just been transplanted from HF, where different considerations apply. We are still a long way from drawing a line under LF communications, transatlantic or other wise.

As far as this reflector goes, I think it would be a mistake to have separate reflectors for LF operating and technical subjects. A reflector that was just about who had worked who would be very dull indeed. A reflector about technical ideas needs some operating background as a sanity check on some of the whackier ideas that people put about -it's no use if it doesn't work. It's a bit like RadCom - many readers enjoy the technical and constructional articles although they may have no intention of building anything. If you took these out, I doubt the readership would increase, or anyone would really benefit. A better idea might be to keep this reflector as it is, and have a separate RSGB "slanging match" reflector where people could post insults of one sort or another. Better still, an absorber rather than a reflector - instead of bombarding everyone's e-mails with junk, it could all be written to a CD-ROM, which could then be discarded by RSGB staff at regular intervals :-)

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU


From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25353 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 15:29:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 15:29:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 25492 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 15:29:23 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 15:29:23 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VETF-00066P-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 15:12:53 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VETE-00066K-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 15:12:53 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id QAA27272 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 16:12:36 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010220161231.234787ae@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 16:12:31 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: QRS software In-reply-to: <46.10d9991d.27c3b57c@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At the moment I am working on a new version of QRS that allows longer dotlengths (up to 1 hour/dot) and has more precise timing. As I hope to reach most users of QRS via this reflector I have one question : Is anyone currently using the QSK facility ? The combination of QSK and precise timing will cause some major changes in the programme (and some extra hours of work). I am willing to keep the QSK facility if there is some interest in this option, otherwise I will abandon QSK. In case you want me to keep the QSK option, please let me know. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25722 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 13:22:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 13:22:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 2486 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 13:22:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 13:22:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VCeQ-0005VD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:16:18 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VCeP-0005V8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:16:17 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:08:58 +0000 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:08:56 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Where next? Message-ID: <3A926C68.8192.DA445C@localhost> In-reply-to: <3.0.6.32.20010220145626.0095e100@pop.saunalahti.fi> References: <3A914BBC.21127.199C4CC@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: OH2LX wrote: > May we outcasts from the most Northern EU request for: > 1. A chronological list of succesful qso's (1-way/2-way), > 2. A list of geographical coordinates of the stations. > I have found it impossible to keep my OH colleaques > informed. I have tried search function in my Eudora archive: If you look at my website: http://www.lf.thersgb.net, you will find quite a lot of detail. Like you, I have been overwhelmed by the weight of information so the pages (indexed from transatlantic.htm) are still being updated. However, I don't know anyone else that has tried to collate the information. I had not thought of giving the coordinates, but I will add this info as soon as I can. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4246 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 13:21:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 13:21:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 118 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 13:21:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 13:21:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VCbt-0005RX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:13:41 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VCbs-0005RS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 13:13:40 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA70038 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:13:22 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010220141316.21d70378@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:13:16 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Where next? In-reply-to: <3.0.6.32.20010220145626.0095e100@pop.saunalahti.fi> References: <3A914BBC.21127.199C4CC@localhost> <3A914553.D8AC3DB@usa.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Vaïno, have a look at : http://www.lf.thersgb.net/transatlantic1.htm 73, Rik ON7YD At 14:56 20/02/01 +0200, you wrote: >Friends, > >May we outcasts from the most Northern EU request for: > >1. A chronological list of succesful qso's (1-way/2-way), > >2. A list of geographical coordinates of the stations. > >I have found it impossible to keep my OH colleaques >informed. I have tried search function in my Eudora archive: > >In 2000 a total of 2428 emails (rsgb_lf-group), >In 2001 already 1400 emails in the same group alone. > >73, Vaino > |---------------------------------------------------------| > | V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX ¤ 60N33.6 024E58.7 KP20LN74 | > | P.O.Box 50 ¤ Telephone: +358-9-4173965 | > | FIN-05401, Jokela ¤ Telefax: +358-9-4173961 | > | Finland ¤ email: vaiski@dlc.fi | > |---------------------------------------------------------| > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21443 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 13:02:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 13:02:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 19557 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 13:02:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 13:02:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VCLV-0005KV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:56:45 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from kauha.saunalahti.fi ([195.197.53.227]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VCLT-0005KQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 12:56:43 +0000 Received: from meisaku (XL.jdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.74.6.40]) by kauha.saunalahti.fi (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id f1KCvHC24019 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:57:17 +0200 (EET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010220145626.0095e100@pop.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: vaiski1@pop.saunalahti.fi X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 14:56:26 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: Re: LF: Where next? In-reply-to: <3A914BBC.21127.199C4CC@localhost> References: <3A914553.D8AC3DB@usa.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Friends, May we outcasts from the most Northern EU request for: 1. A chronological list of succesful qso's (1-way/2-way), 2. A list of geographical coordinates of the stations. I have found it impossible to keep my OH colleaques informed. I have tried search function in my Eudora archive: In 2000 a total of 2428 emails (rsgb_lf-group), In 2001 already 1400 emails in the same group alone. 73, Vaino |---------------------------------------------------------| | V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX ¤ 60N33.6 024E58.7 KP20LN74 | | P.O.Box 50 ¤ Telephone: +358-9-4173965 | | FIN-05401, Jokela ¤ Telefax: +358-9-4173961 | | Finland ¤ email: vaiski@dlc.fi | |---------------------------------------------------------| From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11587 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 12:19:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 12:19:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 29520 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 12:19:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 12:19:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VBQI-0004zz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:57:38 +0000 Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14VBQE-0004zt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 11:57:35 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.46.10d9991d (4255) for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 06:56:45 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <46.10d9991d.27c3b57c@aol.com> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 06:56:44 EST Subject: Re: LF: valid QSO or not ? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 105 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 2/20/01 9:52:38 AM GMT Standard Time, rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be writes: << Maybe now the moment has come that the committee of the 'Peter Bobek Award' takes a clear desicion under what circumstances a QSO on 136kHz is valid (for the award). >> Hi All, but in particular Laurie and Larry. Well done to both on the transatlantic QSO Marathon. Can to clarify if you are both claiming the Peter Bobek award from the sponsoring organisations with this QSO? Thanks David G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23358 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 10:21:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 10:21:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 25800 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 10:21:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 10:21:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14V9q5-0004Xd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:16:09 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14V9q3-0004XY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:16:07 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:10:26 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:10:25 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Higher L - higher ERP Message-ID: <3A924291.19929.36D306@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Yesterday, I reported that I had increased my mast-head inductance so that the antennna was almost self-resonant. The new coil introduced resistive losses and the current reduced, but reports were better than before. Last night, Jim, M0BMU measured my field strength compared to a measurement taken two weeks ago. It was 0.9dB up. This does not account for the greatly improved reports, but it does show that with less current and more resistive losses, the only way the ERP could have increased is if the 'effective height' had increased. Field strength is of course directly proportional to current squared multiplied by effective height (h) squared. At last here is real evidence that the elevated coil really does increase the 'h' part of the equation. Several of us were sure that it did, and several have noticed improvements in our signals when using elevated coils, but the evidence has always been anecdotal. Before you all rush out to put coils at the tops of your masts, the improvement is really only significant if you have a small top section - mine is three parallel wires 0.5m apart and 18m long. My ERP is now estimated at 165mW. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23956 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 09:56:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 09:56:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 4847 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 09:56:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 09:56:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14V9NU-0004LR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:46:36 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14V9N4-0004LE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:46:11 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:32:48 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:32:47 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: 73 KHz? Message-ID: <3A9239BF.20088.1460AE@localhost> In-reply-to: <3A918DB9.E4F21DBA@att.net> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: W4DEX wrote: > Is anyone operating 73 KHz regularly? Is there any slight chance that > a ham transmission on this frequency can be heard across the pond? If > the signal I am seeing on 77.5 KHz is DCF77 it is Q5 during the day > and very strong at night here in North Carolina. How can I identify > DCF77? Four or five UK stations can go on 73kHz from home at short notice - and if necessary could easily combine their skills and experience into an expedition. It is much more difficult to achieve the 1W ERP on 73kHz, though possible with a big enough antenna. Best DX so far is G-OH at about 1800km with 3s dot QRSS (I believe that normal CW has been heard at this distance, too). We have the 73kHz band for only another couple of years, so we need to move fairly quickly if a transatlantic QSO is to be achieved. The most useful beacon is HBG on 75.000kHz. This is a time signal that runs a continuous carrier, with a short gap once a second. >From your point of view, you will need to be aware that man-made noise is much more of a problem at this frequency. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21215 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 09:53:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 09:53:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 29498 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 09:53:43 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 09:53:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14V9DO-0004Gn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:36:10 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14V9DM-0004Gh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:36:08 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA207058 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:35:48 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010220103543.2cffb61a@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:35:43 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: valid QSO or not ? In-reply-to: <00c301c09b19$0b8ab020$1601a8c0@maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net> References: <3A91F454.4F23F726@ns.sympatico.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Maybe now the moment has come that the committee of the 'Peter Bobek Award' takes a clear desicion under what circumstances a QSO on 136kHz is valid (for the award). I believe that the 3 societies involved (AMRAD, DARC and RSGB) have sufficient expertise to make a valid decision, taking into account the 'rules' that are used so far in other weak signal domains (EME, MS) and the specific circumstances of the longwave ham band. After the recent QSO's of G3LDO, VE1ZZ/ZJ, VA3LK and G3AQC it is most likely that more transatlantic contacts will happen with the next time. If we have clear rules then : 1. those who are going for it will know in advance what they have to do 2. painfull discussions afterward will (hopefully) be avoided. It might be interesting to know that there is a similar chalenge on 144MHz, the 'Brendan Trohpy', see http://www.irts.ie/brendan.htm 73, Rik ON7YD PS : it is my personal opinion that, if it is decided that the past performances are not considered valid QSO's, some recognition for those who have set these important steps in the right direction are in order. At 09:42 20/02/01 +0100, you wrote: >I hope the reflector is a place where everybody can say his word without >being afraid. I would burn myself into exhilaration to celebrate the first >2-way QSO, but the fact that it took so long prevents me from that. After a >big hesitation I must admit that I agree with John. >It doesn't mean that this QSO had no meaning. No doubt it is another step >forward. Congrats to both operators. > >73 Petr OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14487 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 09:47:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 09:47:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 16021 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 09:47:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 09:47:17 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14V96B-0004CM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:28:43 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14V967-0004CG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:28:39 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id JAA31619; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:30:22 GMT Received: (qmail 30864 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 10:20:45 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 10:20:45 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id KAA20114; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 10:09:51 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma019864; Tue, 20 Feb 01 10:09:28 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:32:18 +0000 Received: by frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id <18PLNWDX>; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:27:50 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D75CE@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Where next? Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:27:56 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike's comments still seem to make the assumption that a human brain can do better than software. Why ? It doesn't matter how good your eyes are at perceiving subtle differences of tone or colour interspersed with static crashes, or ears at hearing minute changes in a single tone, they can only see / hear amplitude changes and are throwing away all the information contained in the phase of the signal - 3dB worth if your interpretation is perfect and probably a lot more. Why assume a machine cannot do better - the world is now full of communication signals travelling over links that would be impossible for analogue information. We just need to choose a scheme optimised to the type of signalling we want to do and write software to implement it in such a way that the average amateur (who won't build anything of course) can just plug in and go. It is very arrogant to assume the human brain can always do better than a machine just because we feel it ought to. PSK will do better on LF than SLOWCW DFCW etc. in similar bandwidths, but we need to implement it properly. The US Lowfers are there, and showed this years ago. All we need is decent frequency stability in receiver and transmitter and a preparedness to not insist on relying blindly on Soundcards to meet all our data comms needs. If the link won't support lower and lower bandwidths - the simplest route to weak signal working - then use coding to achieve this with wider signals. And here only machines can do the job. I can't somehow visualise a human brain doing the Viterbi error correction algorithm in real time from a Spectrogram -------- I understand there was a quote published in QST (or QEX ?) some time ago from the FCC to the ARRL that "If amateurs did not improve their technology they would lose spectrum". Can anyone in the US confirm (or deny) this and point me at the reference. Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Dennison [mailto:mike.dennison@rsgb.org.uk] > Sent: 2001-02-19 16:37 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: Where next? > > > > > ..................... One such candidate could be the Steve > Onley's FDK. I > > know that, theoretically, PSK can have an advantage over > non-coherent > > FSK, but this doesn't take into account phase distortion over very > > long paths. But I will leave to others to discuss about > the pros and > > cons of the two methods. > > 73 Alberto I2PHD > > A factor that is often ignored when comparing PSK08 (for instance) > and QRSS is the difference between relying on a machine to > interpret the results and using the brain. The spectrogram-type > programs do wonderful work but the final 10dB or so is down to the > brain deciding what is a valid signal and what is not, then deciding > whether it makes sense or not. > > We really would have a winner if we can combine the obvious > theoretical advantages of using FM (or phase mod) rather than AM, > especially when noise is a significant limiting factor, with the > advantages of a display that allows the brain to add some dBs by > intelligently interpreting the result. > > For instance, how about produce a display that is the result of > subtracting the signals and noise in a given audio band, with the > signals and noise in another band of the same bandwidth. This might > provide a means of reducing the effect of wideband noise such as > static (but not random noise) on a conventional mono-frequency > transmission by subtracting the noise in the 'no-signal' band from > the band containing the signal. It might also provide a 'comparitor' > effect so that FSK signals can be better detected - for a given time > period, if the output of 'channel A' is bigger than the output of > 'channel B' then it is a binary '1'; if the other way round > it is a binary > '0'.The important thing is to resist the temptation to feed > this into a > machine that tries its best to work out whether it is a valid > character > or not - this is the bit that the brain does better. > > > Mike > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22982 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 09:29:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 09:29:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 2369 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 09:28:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 09:28:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14V8p7-00047f-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:11:05 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.138] (helo=ruthenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14V8p6-00047a-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:11:04 +0000 Received: from [62.7.74.239] (helo=dave) by ruthenium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14V8op-0002vy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:10:47 +0000 Message-ID: <002401c09b1d$074fc8c0$ef4a073e@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Recent postings Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:10:08 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC I have deliberately taken a back seat in recent days. It would be unfair of me to comment adversely on the recent transatlantic communications as I have not been part of them, but it must be agreed that they are a start. The achievements are not insignificant, and it is up to the individuals concerned as to whether they are to be classed as QSOs in the normal amateur sense of the word. It must be seen a basis to build on. The suggestion from Andre that now is perhaps the time to split off the high tech digital techniques on to another reflector is however timely and I have been thinking this for some while. I know I am not alone in having no interest in this aspect of lf, and like all aspects of amateur radio we all have different interests. However I am acutely aware that there are quite a few who have subscribed to the reflector but subsequently unsubscribed as they did not want their in boxes full of messages they had no interest in. I myself delete around 95% of reflector messages. The reflector in its original form was intended to promote interest in lf; it is the newcomers we want to keep, and if the content of the reflector is not to their liking they will not stay. As longer standing members divert to the more specialised modes it does seem logical that a seperate reflector be set up for their interest, although others would see it as devisive. I have nothing against the new digital modes (and in my professional capacity I am certainly not out of touch with technology) but it is not what I want to do in amateur radio. I took a short break from lf last week to work D68C in the Comoros on 12 hf band slots in three days (and they made 100k qsos in seven days...). Now that is amateur radio in my opinion! 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@btinternet.com dsergeant@iee.org http://www.btinternet.com/~dsergeant From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17833 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 09:07:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 09:07:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 9211 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 09:07:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 09:07:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14V8gm-00046A-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:02:28 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jaws.cisco.com ([198.135.0.150] helo=cisco.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14V8gk-00041K-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:02:27 +0000 Received: from virgin.net (stbryant-isdn-home.cisco.com [10.49.137.202]) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id IAA16073 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 08:59:21 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A92315B.94DB01@virgin.net> Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 08:57:00 +0000 From: "Stewart Bryant" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: Signalling margins and Shannon, shud we move on? References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D75CC@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> <3A9160B5.D9C9DE4D@usa.net> <002801c09acb$30ae6cf0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Larry Kayser wrote: > Gentlemen: > > With the completion of the TransAtlantic QSO is it time to consider moving > on? I would hope that on reflection you do not feel the need to. The slow signal methods are just as much a part of LF operation as the conventional methods. You have only to look at submarine communications and deep space communications to understand that slow communications have a serious role to play in long distance comms. Also if you think back to the RSGB convention, there was one paper that suggested that we are massively overestimating the efficiency of our antennas. If that work holds up, then we will have to drop power to conform to the licience ERP condition, and the we may well find that slow weak signal methods are the only viable technique. 73 Stewart G3YSX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18119 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 08:56:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 08:56:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 11826 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 08:56:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 08:56:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14V8SQ-00040C-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 08:47:38 +0000 Received: from [195.47.110.226] (helo=dell1.gmccz.cz.gmc.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14V8SO-000404-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 08:47:37 +0000 Received: from p (p.maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net [192.168.1.22]) by dell1.gmccz.cz.gmc.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id FJMFTLYP; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:48:57 +0100 Message-ID: <00c301c09b19$0b8ab020$1601a8c0@maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3A91F454.4F23F726@ns.sympatico.ca> Subject: LF: Re: transatlantic qso Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 09:42:23 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I hope the reflector is a place where everybody can say his word without being afraid. I would burn myself into exhilaration to celebrate the first 2-way QSO, but the fact that it took so long prevents me from that. After a big hesitation I must admit that I agree with John. It doesn't mean that this QSO had no meaning. No doubt it is another step forward. Congrats to both operators. 73 Petr OK1FIG ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Tuesday, February 20, 2001 5:36 AM Subject: LF: transatlantic qso > Hi all, I am writing this email with great trepidation. Firstly what > I am about to write could be to my benefit because I have been involved > with a previous claim for a transatlantic exchange of information. I > must, however, say what I firmly believe. As stated in a previous > email Earth Moon Earth (EME) operators , the inventors of the TMO system > of weak signal reports along with other weak, or itermittent, signal > operators such as meteor scatter operators have all called for an > exchange of COMPLETE calls plus a signal report as the minimum > requirement for a QSO. > They have also never to my knowledge looked at 8 or ten days > of data to pile up enough dots and dashes to constitute a QSO . > I feel the most that cas be ascribed to the marathon effort > is four or five > 25 per cent completed QSOs. > 73 de John VE1ZJ > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15921 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 08:21:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 08:21:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 19094 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 08:21:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 08:21:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14V7xa-0003re-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 08:15:46 +0000 Received: from chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14V7xW-0003rZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 08:15:42 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-3-5.easynet.co.uk [195.40.202.5]) by chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 83A3FF843A for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 08:15:21 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <001901c09b15$c18f8200$05ca28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000c01c099e9$33c43420$4ba874d5@w8k3f0> <001001c09a01$18269380$b7ca28c3@ericadodd> <003801c09a60$6965efc0$290d883e@robing> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: Fw: Active antenna Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 08:11:24 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Robin, G3LBA, said:. > I have a Decca Preamp mounted on my Garden shed (Height 3.5 M.) and I have > a 0.75M. steel whip on it. > The shed is well away from any other buildings and the antenna seems to be > excellent although I have little else to compare it with. > I will scan the circuit and send it to you. Thanks for the circuit Robin - I will send it to those who have asked for a copy. Come to think of it I might put it with the Book Addendum Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20967 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 03:59:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 03:59:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 10910 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 03:58:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 03:58:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14V3sY-0002Zv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 03:54:18 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from kauha.saunalahti.fi ([195.197.53.227]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14V3sX-0002Zq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 03:54:17 +0000 Received: from pmk2 (DXXIV.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.74.4.224]) by kauha.saunalahti.fi (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id f1K3snC06345 for ; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 05:54:49 +0200 (EET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Paul Keinanen" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Signalling margins and Shannon, shud we move on? Date: Tue, 20 Feb 2001 05:53:59 +0200 Message-ID: References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D75CC@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> <3A9160B5.D9C9DE4D@usa.net> <002801c09acb$30ae6cf0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> In-reply-to: <002801c09acb$30ae6cf0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:01:13 -0500, "Larry Kayser" wrote: >This needs to be carefully thought through - I for one am reluctant to bring >up issues about 300 second data bits simply because I know that many of the >participants on this reflector are not even happy about 30 second visual CW >bits. I also am not keen to get into discussions that I know full well are >making other users of the facility unhappy. Extending the bit time might be a good idea if the propagation conditions would remain constant as in space communication. However, in variable propagation conditions, if the message takes hours to transfer, some bits would get through quite strongly, while others would be wiped out completely. Interleaving and ECC would help against this, but again this would extend the transmission period further. How about some Memory-ARQ style system ? Instead of standardising the bit rate, the message would be repeated at an exactly defined ratio (eg. once every 600 s) and the signal from various frames would be summed at the receiving end, integrating the power for a specific bit from multiple frames. The end of the frame (say 60 s) could be a acknowledge period, so when the receiver think that the message has been decoded (e.g. by visual decoding), the recipient would start to send ACK (possibly with a lower data rate) during each acknowledge period. At the original transmitting site this ACK message would finally accumulate to an ACK code and the original transmitter could then stop transmitting, cutting the transmission time to a minimum. With a symmetrical link (same ERP and same background noise levels) the recipient could event start sending ACK as soon as the message framing has been established (while still many data bits are unclear), since during the time the ACK message has accumulated sufficiently, most likely the original message would be clear enough :-). Anyway, stations close to the transmitter site could decode the message within a few minutes and thus now what is going on, without having to wait for hours to se what that mysterious transmission is all about. Paul OH3LWR From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19197 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 03:15:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 03:15:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 13548 invoked from network); 20 Feb 2001 03:15:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 20 Feb 2001 03:15:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14V39T-0002NH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 03:07:43 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.40.144]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14V39R-0002NC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 20 Feb 2001 03:07:41 +0000 Received: from ieee.org (client-151-200-117-137.bellatlantic.net [151.200.117.137]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA11541; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 22:07:38 -0500 (EST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A91E044.E1822E6F@ieee.org> Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 22:11:00 -0500 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: "lf-amrad" Subject: LF: shud we move on? References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D75CC@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> <3A9160B5.D9C9DE4D@usa.net> <002801c09acb$30ae6cf0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: hello Larry, The AMRAD LF reflector, for one, would be very glad to post strange ideas such as yours, and those of others who entertain similar way out approaches :-) 73 Andre' N4ICK ********************************** Larry Kayser wrote: > Gentlemen: > > With the completion of the TransAtlantic QSO is it time to consider moving > on? The RSGB reflector has been a wonderful and gracious host for the last > 18 months that I have been a part of it - as we seem to be entering a new > phase is it time to move onwards, to separate graciously and with good > humour and good feelings into a European Centric focus for this reflector > and the Really Really Weak Signal (RRWS) people move off and create our > mahem in some other resource? Would the RSGB consider hosting a RRWS > reflector? > > This needs to be carefully thought through - I for one am reluctant to bring > up issues about 300 second data bits simply because I know that many of the > participants on this reflector are not even happy about 30 second visual CW > bits. I also am not keen to get into discussions that I know full well are > making other users of the facility unhappy. > > For instance I saw an email today from Steve, GW4ALG that listed many LF > users in the UK and Europe that I have never had a chance to hear, many of > them obviously aural CW users. > > My question for your consideration is - should some of us move on. > > My personal quest is to head for higher performance systems, slower sending, > and regular VA3 to ZL/VK and Europe communications. I wonder who would like > to go in that direction as a specialty within the LF community. > > Discussion? > > Larry > VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12968 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 23:48:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 23:48:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 11980 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 23:48:51 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 23:48:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Uzw6-0001L9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 23:41:42 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from mozart.unetsul.com.br ([200.247.254.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Uzw1-0001Kz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 23:41:39 +0000 Received: from mailman.endymion.com (mozart.unetsul.com.br [200.247.254.3]) by mozart.unetsul.com.br (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA51425 for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 20:41:23 -0300 (EST) (envelope-from py2pll@py.qsl.br) Message-ID: <200102192341.UAA51425@mozart.unetsul.com.br> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: py2pll@py.qsl.br Subject: LF: Rejected E-Mail - Off toppic Date: Mon, 19 Feb 101 23:41:24 +0000 X-Mailer: Endymion MailMan v2.0 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi ... How can I be in touch with blacksheep webmaster? My e-mails, when sent from 200.189.209.130 (my ISP SMTP address)are rejected with the message: 550 mail from 200.189.209.130 rejected: administrative prohibition (host is blacklisted) 73 Marcus, PY2PLL/PY3CRX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4676 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 23:39:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 23:39:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 17552 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 23:39:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 23:39:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Uzpm-0001Jq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 23:35:10 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6] helo=mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Uzpl-0001Jl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 23:35:09 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.102.200]) by mail-ns00s0.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:34:15 -0400 Message-ID: <3A91F454.4F23F726@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 23:36:36 -0500 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: transatlantic qso Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, I am writing this email with great trepidation. Firstly what I am about to write could be to my benefit because I have been involved with a previous claim for a transatlantic exchange of information. I must, however, say what I firmly believe. As stated in a previous email Earth Moon Earth (EME) operators , the inventors of the TMO system of weak signal reports along with other weak, or itermittent, signal operators such as meteor scatter operators have all called for an exchange of COMPLETE calls plus a signal report as the minimum requirement for a QSO. They have also never to my knowledge looked at 8 or ten days of data to pile up enough dots and dashes to constitute a QSO . I feel the most that cas be ascribed to the marathon effort is four or five 25 per cent completed QSOs. 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8518 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 23:33:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 23:33:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 24091 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 23:33:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 23:33:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Uzj6-0001Fg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 23:28:16 +0000 Received: from smtp.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.26] helo=tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Uzj2-0001FX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 23:28:13 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.209.110.64]) by tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010219232717.FSKS25007.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:27:17 -0500 Message-ID: <002801c09acb$30ae6cf0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D75CC@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> <3A9160B5.D9C9DE4D@usa.net> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Signalling margins and Shannon, shud we move on? Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:01:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Gentlemen: With the completion of the TransAtlantic QSO is it time to consider moving on? The RSGB reflector has been a wonderful and gracious host for the last 18 months that I have been a part of it - as we seem to be entering a new phase is it time to move onwards, to separate graciously and with good humour and good feelings into a European Centric focus for this reflector and the Really Really Weak Signal (RRWS) people move off and create our mahem in some other resource? Would the RSGB consider hosting a RRWS reflector? This needs to be carefully thought through - I for one am reluctant to bring up issues about 300 second data bits simply because I know that many of the participants on this reflector are not even happy about 30 second visual CW bits. I also am not keen to get into discussions that I know full well are making other users of the facility unhappy. For instance I saw an email today from Steve, GW4ALG that listed many LF users in the UK and Europe that I have never had a chance to hear, many of them obviously aural CW users. My question for your consideration is - should some of us move on. My personal quest is to head for higher performance systems, slower sending, and regular VA3 to ZL/VK and Europe communications. I wonder who would like to go in that direction as a specialty within the LF community. Discussion? Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16874 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 21:24:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 21:24:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 6866 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 21:24:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 21:24:46 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Uxit-0000dk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 21:19:55 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mtiwmhc27.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.52]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Uxis-0000dY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 21:19:54 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from att.net ([12.77.31.122]) by mtiwmhc27.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.10 201-229-121-110) with ESMTP id <20010219211909.IFWY7519.mtiwmhc27.worldnet.att.net@att.net> for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 21:19:09 +0000 Message-ID: <3A918DB9.E4F21DBA@att.net> Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:18:49 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "RSGB LF" Subject: LF: 73 KHz? Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Is anyone operating 73 KHz regularly? Is there any slight chance that a ham transmission on this frequency can be heard across the pond? If the signal I am seeing on 77.5 KHz is DCF77 it is Q5 during the day and very strong at night here in North Carolina. How can I identify DCF77? Dexter From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28125 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 20:49:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 20:49:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 21032 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 20:49:32 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 20:49:32 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Ux7o-0000Sk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 20:41:36 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp2.libero.it ([193.70.192.52]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Ux7n-0000Sf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 20:41:35 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ath650 (151.25.254.225) by smtp2.libero.it (5.5.015.5) id 3A8BEF0B000E6682 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 21:41:09 +0100 Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 21:41:09 +0100 (added by postmaster@iol.it) Message-ID: <4.1.20010219214058.00c0a4c0@pop.tiscalinet.it> X-Sender: IK1ODO@popmail.libero.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Versione 4.1 Data: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 21:41:07 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Marco Bruno" Subject: Re: LF: First Trans-Atlantic QSO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Laurie and Larry, Many congratulations on a very credible achievement! :-) "Spumante" corks flying here, up to the top wires of the Marconi.... 73, Marco IK1ODO Marco Bruno - IK1ODO spin.elec@tiscalinet.it SPIN Electronics - www.spin-it.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8574 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 19:57:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 19:57:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 24093 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 19:57:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 19:57:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UwHL-0000C3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:47:23 +0000 Received: from lepidachrosite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UwHK-0000By-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:47:22 +0000 Received: from w8k3f0 (NotoriousBIG.Music.dialup.freeler.nl [212.26.219.254]) by lepidachrosite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id F0B6DCB129 for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:46:44 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <002e01c09aa4$c8041a40$fedb1ad4@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000c01c099e9$33c43420$4ba874d5@w8k3f0> <000d01c09a9d$99ffe040$4f09bed4@be047304> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Fw: Active antenna Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:38:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hello Ruddy,
 
That was the source of my information!
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
----- Oorspronkelijk bericht -----
Verzonden: maandag 19 februari 2001 18:57
Onderwerp: LF: Re: Fw: Active antenna

Hello Dick,
 
This article can be found also ( dutch language) in Elektronika nr 7  1981, page 65/77.
Complete with circuit diagrams and description. I have this article. Werner, ON6ND, has used it ( or still in use ?).
 
73
 
Ruddy
 
ON6UX
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 9:26 PM
Subject: LF: Fw: Active antenna

 
To All from PA0SE
 
It has been mentioned several times that the input stage of an active receiving antenna is easily damaged by lightning in the vicinity due to the very high input impedance of the amplfier.
 
Several years ago Dr. (now professor) E.H. Nordholt of the Technical University Delft in The Netherlands developed an alternative design for an active antenna that does not suffer from this problem.
Instead of making the input impedance very high it has been made very low instead by means of negative feedback. As a result the E-field probe, a piece of copper tube of 50cm long and 3cm diameter, now feeds a current into the FET at the input. Because of the probe's capacitive impedance the current increases with frequency at  6dB/octave.
This is compensated by the negative feedback .
 
The active antenna has a frequency response that is flat from 5kHz to over 30MHz. It stays linear in field strengths up to 10V/m. Great attention has also been given to proper noise behaviour ("noisemanship"). The input is protected by diodes against high voltages. Because signal voltages at the input are very small due to the low input impedance little signal current flows into the diodes and they do not impair the favourable characteristic of the active antenna.
In a test the antenna was not damaged by sparks jumping to the probe from a car ignition coil.
 
I have sent a similar text, together with a circuit diagram, to the reflector before but it may have been too long for distribution.
But particulars can be found in:
 
E.H. Nordholt, D. van Willigen: "A new approach to active antenna design", IEEE Transactions on Ant. and Prop., vol. AP-28, no. 6, November 1980.
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
 
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28723 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 19:23:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 19:23:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 12885 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 19:23:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 19:23:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Uvoi-0008WC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:17:48 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [194.200.20.13] (helo=mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Uvoh-0008W7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:17:47 +0000 Received: from userbq33.netscapeonline.co.uk ([62.125.144.128] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 14Uvk8-0000n3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:13:05 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A91711C.4C7DEF4B@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:16:44 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: First Trans-Atlantic QSO References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Tom Boucher wrote: > Laurie and Larry > > Many congratulations on an incredible achievement. Has anyone else noticed that it is the same few congratulating each other over and over again for minding a machine that is making the qso and takes at least 2 weeks!!!!!!!!! Not my idea of a qso, where you go away and come back weeks later to give an acknowledgement. It also appears that only part callsigns were identified and that is because the calls are already known and the rest is guesswork. This is the only band where part callsigns are acceptable for a qso, any other band because the calls are unknown would not count as a valid qso. Positive identification of the full call is necessary. Last week you were claiming that G3LDO had made the first qso across to VE, now this week you have changed your mind. What do you predict for next week??? I will be the first to congratulate anyone that makes a credible two way aural qso between Europe and W/VE but not an unattended computer to computer contact. I am only quoting the facts as published on this reflector list, in fact this mode of unattended communications might not be legal Let us all get real on LF and follow 160 metre dx procedures, a qso is only valid when callsign and rst exchanges takes place at one session, normally seconds but could be minutes and certainly not hours or days or weeks. Discussions with other radio amateurs agree with my observations and I do not see any rush on this list to contradict me except the same FEW. G3KEV > > > 73, Tom G3OLB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21927 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 19:23:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 19:23:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 7622 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 19:23:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 19:23:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UvoZ-0008W2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:17:39 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [194.200.20.13] (helo=mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UvoY-0008Vx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:17:39 +0000 Received: from userbq33.netscapeonline.co.uk ([62.125.144.128] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 14Uvk0-0000md-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:12:56 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A917113.A9E7AFC5@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:16:35 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: Insulators Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All I am surprised that no one has tried the lobster pot sninners for insulators. All your troubles could be over, especially at 50 Pence each. They have not let me down yet but maybe I do not have the big voltages that some are experiencing with small antennas. My total loading coil inductance at the base of the vertical system is only 0.9 mh including matching. 73 de G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14919 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 19:18:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 19:18:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 29361 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 19:18:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 19:18:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UvjD-0008S9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:12:07 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from snowstorm.mail.pipex.net ([158.43.192.97]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UvjC-0008S3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:12:06 +0000 Received: (qmail 14359 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 19:11:49 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from userfn19.uk.uudial.com (62.188.24.206) by smtp-5.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 19:11:49 -0000 From: "Nick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Signalling margins and Shannon Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:10:46 +0000 Message-ID: References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D75CC@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> <3A9160B5.D9C9DE4D@usa.net> In-reply-to: <3A9160B5.D9C9DE4D@usa.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:06:45 +0100, you wrote: > > > > >Talbot Andrew wrote: >
  Can you post in plain text please and not HTML. Thanks Nick From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21742 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 19:18:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 19:18:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 29049 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 19:18:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 19:18:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UvjE-0008SF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:12:08 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from snowstorm.mail.pipex.net ([158.43.192.97]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UvjD-0008S8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:12:07 +0000 Received: (qmail 14363 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 19:11:51 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from userfn19.uk.uudial.com (62.188.24.206) by smtp-5.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 19:11:51 -0000 From: "Nick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Weekend Report: 17-18/02/2001 Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:10:48 +0000 Message-ID: References: <3A915FF8.CF1AB9CC@alg.demon.co.uk> In-reply-to: <3A915FF8.CF1AB9CC@alg.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:03:36 +0000, you wrote: >We just need to learn a bit more about using >catapults! A 'Staff Sling' might be more effective. http://www.st-cuthbertsland.demon.co.uk/ssl_make.htm Nick From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24486 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 18:37:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 18:37:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 7106 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 18:37:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 18:37:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Uv7A-0008Hi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:32:48 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mta13-acc.tin.it ([212.216.176.44] helo=fep13-svc.tin.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Uv75-0008Hd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:32:45 +0000 Received: from mailsrv.dii.unisi.it ([212.171.197.202]) by fep13-svc.tin.it (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with ESMTP id <20010219183209.WFUC2758.fep13-svc.tin.it@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:32:09 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A91657D.FF62797A@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:27:10 +0100 From: "valerio gabbani" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 135.9235 approx, last night References: <3.0.3.32.20010218085431.00fd8dd0@pop.netzero.net> <002e01c099f5$919f3020$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> <3A91316B.57E7673C@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: valerio gabbani wrote: > Larry Kayser wrote: > >> Greetings All: >> >> I am studying the .jpg's from last night and there was a signal on >> about >> 135.9235 that has a definite cyclic frequency change, about a 50 to >> 75 >> milliHz change over say an hour or so. The signal was I suspect >> sending >> conventional CW which was hopelessly smeered by ARGO in the 60 >> second dot >> mode hi. >> >> Interesting, studying the 2.4 Hz window around 135.922 I am seeing a >> number >> of signals that if they were sending 90 or 120 second dits would be >> readable >> overe here. >> >> I sure would like find out who else was transmitting last night >> around >> 135.922. >> >> Larry >> VA3LK > > Larry, > I send some times part of my call "ZPV" saturday nigth with dot > length 20 sec. 1/2 ratio in around 135.923kHz. from 21:30 UTC to 23:00 > UTC. > I use a DDS sinth driven by a 10 MHz quartz oscillator without thermal > stabilization and i know that it is affected by frequency drift > although i cannot measure it. > My transmissions are not regular because some isolation problein > antenna. > If weather is dry i will try again this evening starting at 21:00 UTC > sending "ZPV" 20 sec dot 1/2 ratio on 135.923. > I can use also longer dot length but i must decrease power because > some isolation problem in loading coil. > > I hope you can see me. > > '73, Valerio (IK5ZPV) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4322 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 18:14:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 18:14:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 5669 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 18:14:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 18:14:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Uujl-00087h-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:08:37 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from d06lmsgate-3.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Uujh-00087T-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:08:36 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.147]) by d06lmsgate-3.uk.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id RAA85226 for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:58:58 GMT Received: from usa.net (ss10.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.76]) by d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id SAA55868 for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:07:35 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A9160B5.D9C9DE4D@usa.net> Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:06:45 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Signalling margins and Shannon References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D75CC@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> Content-Type: text/html; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Talbot Andrew wrote:
 Has anyone looked at what Signal to Noise is realistically viewable on a spectrogram display ?   Assuming bandwidth equal to FFT bin size, my few tests suggest around 10dB but it would be nice to have a more authoritative  figure to calculate with.   Obviously depends on colour palette and number of colours on the display so after a couple of years of experience with Spectrogram and now Argo, what has anyone found ?


Maybe those 10dB are a bit on the pessimistic side. Before writing Spectran and Argo, I used the FFTDSP program by AF9Y, which has
an S/N indicator. I remember having seen with it traces of signals whose S/N was reported being a couple of dBs.
Those of you who have calibrated signal sources could arrange a testing fixture to give more accurate values.

73  Alberto   I2PHD
  From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15243 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 18:07:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 18:07:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 17694 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 18:07:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 18:07:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Uucs-00086X-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:01:30 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Uucq-00086S-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:01:28 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14Uuca-0005tm-0K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:01:12 +0000 Message-ID: <3A915FF8.CF1AB9CC@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:03:36 +0000 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Weekend Report: 17-18/02/2001 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, Although I was not QRV on 136 kHz on Saturday, I did have a very enjoyable visit with John G4CNN at his QTH in Caversham. - Lots of smart homemade gear was seen, and I observed some very interesting possibilities for using the nearby trees as antenna supports. We just need to learn a bit more about using catapults! But I do know that 136 kHz was packed with CW communication on Sunday morning! Using my 12 m vertical, I worked: F6CNI - Andy has raised some of the loading further up the vertical part of his antenna, and seems about 6 dB stronger. PA0SE - Nice to work you again, Dick. Shame about the QRM, but nice to hear so much activity! G3BDQ - John has added more wire to his fine antenna. G3WFM - Good to hear John back on the band. G0UPU - Roger has recently returned to the band, and is now quite active on Saturday and Sunday mornings. G6NB - Bill is another regular, and is often on 136 during weekdays too. G8TB - After some initial QRP tests a while ago (with G8RW), Bernard fired up his 100 W PA to work G8RW and then called me for his second QSO on 136 kHz. G3XDV - Mike was a very fine 599 signal, having re-positioned his loading coil as described in his recent Email. >From memory, I think that I also heard G8RW; EI0CF; G3OLB; PA0BWL; and ON7YD. Later on Sunday, I got the balloons up at 27 m for a few hours to work: GM3YXM/P - The familiar big signal from Dave, all being keying via an interesting design of morse key. (I'll let Dave explain later.) DF0WD - I exchanged 579 both ways with the station op. Wolf (DL4YHF). He reported that my signal was about the same as Dave's! G8RW - At the moment, Bob is probably the UK's most active communicator on 136. DJ0IE - A long chat with Uli, who has recently installed new station equipment. PA0BWL - I just managed a QSO with Wil before I had to dismantle the antenna. Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17926 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 18:01:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 18:01:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 5293 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 18:01:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 18:01:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UuXV-00081F-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:55:57 +0000 Received: from bru5-smtp-out2.be.uu.net ([194.7.1.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UuXT-00081A-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:55:55 +0000 Received: from be047304 (uu212-190-9-79.unknown.uunet.be [212.190.9.79]) by bru5-smtp-out2.be.uu.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1JHtX711500 for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:55:37 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <000d01c09a9d$99ffe040$4f09bed4@be047304> From: "Sommereyns Ruddy" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000c01c099e9$33c43420$4ba874d5@w8k3f0> Subject: LF: Re: Fw: Active antenna Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:57:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit

Hello Dick,
 
This article can be found also ( dutch language) in Elektronika nr 7  1981, page 65/77.
Complete with circuit diagrams and description. I have this article. Werner, ON6ND, has used it ( or still in use ?).
 
73
 
Ruddy
 
ON6UX
----- Original Message -----
Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 9:26 PM
Subject: LF: Fw: Active antenna

 
To All from PA0SE
 
It has been mentioned several times that the input stage of an active receiving antenna is easily damaged by lightning in the vicinity due to the very high input impedance of the amplfier.
 
Several years ago Dr. (now professor) E.H. Nordholt of the Technical University Delft in The Netherlands developed an alternative design for an active antenna that does not suffer from this problem.
Instead of making the input impedance very high it has been made very low instead by means of negative feedback. As a result the E-field probe, a piece of copper tube of 50cm long and 3cm diameter, now feeds a current into the FET at the input. Because of the probe's capacitive impedance the current increases with frequency at  6dB/octave.
This is compensated by the negative feedback .
 
The active antenna has a frequency response that is flat from 5kHz to over 30MHz. It stays linear in field strengths up to 10V/m. Great attention has also been given to proper noise behaviour ("noisemanship"). The input is protected by diodes against high voltages. Because signal voltages at the input are very small due to the low input impedance little signal current flows into the diodes and they do not impair the favourable characteristic of the active antenna.
In a test the antenna was not damaged by sparks jumping to the probe from a car ignition coil.
 
I have sent a similar text, together with a circuit diagram, to the reflector before but it may have been too long for distribution.
But particulars can be found in:
 
E.H. Nordholt, D. van Willigen: "A new approach to active antenna design", IEEE Transactions on Ant. and Prop., vol. AP-28, no. 6, November 1980.
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
 
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10989 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 17:35:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 17:35:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 10737 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 17:35:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 17:35:55 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Uu8q-0007uh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:30:28 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Uu8m-0007rP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:30:24 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14Uu8F-0000Eh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:29:51 +0000 Message-ID: <2850.200102191729@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:34:08 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Trans-atlantic QSO/Active antenna preamps X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group Congratulations to Laurie & Larry on their QSO - for those in the Antipodes wanting to participate in G to VK and ZL tests, perhaps now would be a good time to switch on the spectrogram software - by the time you have successfully obtained a 136kHz allocation, and built new transmitters and antennas, enough time might have elapsed to receive a CQ call :-) Thanks to PA0SE for the info on the active antenna - this preamp circuit is a high frequency application of the "charge amplifier" circuit configuration, widely used with other capacitive signal sources, such as condenser microphones and piezoelectric transducers. Resistors of up to 5Gigohms are listed by RS components, if you don't mind paying several pounds each. Not sure what an FD300 diode is, but it must have very low leakage! For those interested in using op-amps at LF frequencies, I have been experimenting with the Burr-Brown OPA604. Although primarily an audio device, this is quite well suited to tuned loop pre- amps and other high impedance, moderate bandwidth applications. It has fairly low voltage noise, 10nV/rootHz, which is less than the thermal noise produced by most tuned loops, and negligible current noise. It is reasonably fast - 20MHz GBP, 25V/us slew rate, but not really fast enough for wideband antennas. It works OK from a single 12V supply rail. It is fairly cheap at a bit over 1GBP and seems to resist destruction quite effectively. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5474 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 17:20:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 17:20:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 25947 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 17:20:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 17:20:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UtuK-0007lg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:15:28 +0000 Received: from imo-r07.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.7]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UtuJ-0007lC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:15:27 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-r07.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.87.71459d1 (3966) for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 12:14:21 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <87.71459d1.27c2ae6c@aol.com> Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 12:14:20 EST Subject: Re: LF: Slower and slower To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 2/19/01 12:12:29 PM Eastern Standard Time, rik.strobbe@fys.kuleuven.ac.be writes: << Using DFCW instead of QRSS will reduce the QSO time to abt. 1/3 and the required stability to 1/2 (0.02ppm). More sophisticated methods (FDK etc..) might even give better results. >> I wonder...was Andy's analysis confusing DFCW with FDK? From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9405 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 17:13:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 17:13:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 313 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 17:13:44 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 17:13:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UtnH-0007jX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:08:11 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Utn4-0007jS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:07:59 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA86346 for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:07:32 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010219180729.333f6882@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 18:07:29 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Slower and slower In-reply-to: <3A9144F9.27870.17F5A6B@localhost> References: <6454168.982595788787.JavaMail.imail@bronty> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 16:08 19/02/01 -0000, G3XDV wrote: >There's nothing to stop you integrating a signal over days, except >that the frequency stability and accuracy required (not the same >thing) gets tighter and tighter. With tools as ARGO you can watch a 'frequency window' that is many hundred times the resolution, so I believe that accuracy is not so critical as the frequency stability. To take optimal advantage of ARGO the TX (and RX) stability needs to be better than 1/dotlength over the duration of a dash. So for 300 sec. dots / 600 sec. dashes the combined drift (of TX and RX) must be better than 0.003Hz over 10 minutes. Assuming the worst case (TX and RX drifting in opposite directions, as favoured by our old friend Murphy) the stability of both TX and RX should be better than 0.0015Hz over 10 minutes, what equals 0.01ppm (or a drift of 0.1Hz at a 10MHz reference oscillator). I'm not a specialist in oscillator stability, but it seems to me that a making a reference that fullfills this requirements is in the category 'difficult but not impossible'. Using DFCW instead of QRSS will reduce the QSO time to abt. 1/3 and the required stability to 1/2 (0.02ppm). More sophisticated methods (FDK etc..) might even give better results. Another question : how stable will the signal be after passing trough the ionosphere ? Will the doppler shift be less than 0.01ppm ? But please, don't let the above let anybody stop experimenting. One year ago not even the wildest mind would have thought about a QSO between G and VE3 that would take several days ... and now it is a fact ! 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9045 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 17:13:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 17:13:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 9405 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 17:13:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 17:13:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Uti5-0007if-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:02:49 +0000 Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Uti1-0007iW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:02:46 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.70.7fbc5cf (3971) for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 12:01:55 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <70.7fbc5cf.27c2ab83@aol.com> Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 12:01:55 EST Subject: Re: LF: Slower and slower To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: << There's nothing to stop you integrating a signal over days, except that the frequency stability and accuracy required (not the same thing) gets tighter and tighter. >> And, as Alberto pointed out, the propagation path gets in the way of this kind of stability too. John From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23603 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 17:11:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 17:11:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 26271 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 17:11:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 17:11:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Utfl-0007eM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:00:25 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Utfj-0007eH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:00:23 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id RAA26151; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:02:12 GMT Received: (qmail 31388 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 17:52:38 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 17:52:38 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id RAA04022; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:41:48 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma003962; Mon, 19 Feb 01 17:41:23 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-3.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:04:04 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-3.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <10C3QXMZ>; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:59:21 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D75CC@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: "LF Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: Signalling margins and Shannon Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:59:03 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Has anyone looked at what Signal to Noise is realistically viewable on a spectrogram display ?   Assuming bandwidth equal to FFT bin size, my few tests suggest around 10dB but it would be nice to have a more authoritative  figure to calculate with.   Obviously depends on colour palette and number of colours on the display so after a couple of years of experience with Spectrogram and now Argo, what has anyone found ?
 
A back of envelope calculation on signalling capabilities using DFCW :
(Switch off now those not interested in communications theory and working out what Could be done <:-)
 
-------------------------------------------------
For DFCW, signal bandwidth needs to be at least twice that of a dot interval in order to be able to distinctly see the on-off transitions.   Doubled again, since two frequencies are involved, but some overlap of sidebands is allowed as we can sttill se which of the frequencies is intended, so take a total signalling bandwidth of 3 times the dot interval as being the minimum needed.   This gives a signalling rate of   1 / 3 Bit / second per Hz   (0.33 B/s/Hz)
 
Shannon's law relates signalling rate to Signal to Noise by :
 
R = LOG(1 + S/N)     (LOG to the base 2 and S/N in numerical units, not dB)
 
so for R = 0.33, signalling should be possible (at an 'arbitrarily low' error rate)  in a S/N of 0.258  = -5.8dB (yes, negative S/N)
 
If 10dB S/N is needed for viewing then we are almost 16dB down on Shannon
And this does not even allow for further signal degradation due to multipath / fading,
 
The only scheme I have ever come across that reckons to get within less than 1 dB of Shannon makes use of the very latest Turbo coding schemes now possible with high speed DSP, coupled with continuous phase modulation (partially related to MSK)    It is / was a contender for third generation mobile phones to increase data rate there in the congested bandwidth available.   PSK and QAM modulation sits somewhere between.
 
Coding :
DFCW codes the alphabet into between 1 and 5 bit intervals per character plus a gap for inter letter spacing, which, with the two frequency level coding, equates to between 4 to 12 bits per character.   The letter frequency of plain language text coupled with the one bit for E, two for A,N and 4 for Q, Z etc means there is probably an average of around 5 - 6 bits per letter, which is not bad coding efficiency - simple Baudot manages 7.5 bits / character and PSK31 about 5.5 - 6.  The very best dictionary based coding schemes, transmitting codes to represent words or even whole phrases, can claim 1 bit or less per letter equivalence.
 
However, the coding efficiency only affects the time to send the overall message since it dictates the Total number of bits needed, not the S/N needed in which to send it;  that only dictates the rate.
 
Andy  G4JNT
 
 


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 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15280 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 17:06:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 17:06:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 15837 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 17:04:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 17:04:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UtYz-0007cL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:53:25 +0000 Received: from cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.171]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UtYy-0007cG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:53:24 +0000 Received: from modem-71.dunharrow.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.160.199] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14UtMz-00008e-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:41:02 +0000 Message-ID: <002301c09a94$903e1940$c7a0883e@g3aqc> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <015d01c09a82$e85849a0$0d0e0805@globocabo.com.br> Subject: LF: Re: Some signals Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:53:22 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Marcus, my frequency since 01/01/01 has been 135.921.7/8 so its possible some of your "hits" were me, which would be terrific. most stations have been clustered between .920 and 923. ,keep up the good work 73s Laurie.----- Original Message ----- From: "PY3CRX PY2PLL" To: "LF Group" Sent: Monday, February 19, 2001 2:47 PM Subject: LF: Some signals > Hi ... > > I think I got some signals when monitoring 135.920. I set up Argo to watch > from 800Hz (135920) to 806Hz (135926), 60 second dot, slow. > > Unfortunately, it's summer here so static crashes are really a problem, > peaking -60dBm sometimes. My noise floor is -128dBm durying daytime. > > After some days I could select 2 or 3 snapshots where I "wish" to see some > traces. One of them seems to be at 135921,7. There are others. > > I'm not shure but is there any freq alocation table (who's where?). > > No decode at all but seems that there's something showing up. The days when > this traces are more visible was the same where 153KHz BC was strong here. > > I'm not watching 137789,4 yet because my antena doesn't have a good coverage > to > NA (10dB less than at EU direction). > > 73 > Marcus > PY3CRX/PY2PLL > S. B. do Campo - GG66rf > http://py.qsl.br > Active from "DC" to 24GHz > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8035 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 17:02:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 17:02:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 26131 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 16:53:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 16:53:31 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UtO6-0007XP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:42:10 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UtO3-0007XK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:42:07 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id QAA08371; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:43:55 GMT Received: (qmail 26829 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 17:34:20 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 17:34:20 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id RAA27767; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:23:30 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma026510; Mon, 19 Feb 01 17:19:45 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:12:48 +0000 Received: by frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id <18PLNTTL>; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:08:21 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D75CB@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: First Trans-Atlantic QSO Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:08:24 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: That may not work too well, if the openings are 'only' a few hours long. The channel bandwidth is being spread to 1/(few hours) Hz and going slower will not help. Nice to try though. Better coding will help though. Perhaps the GPS locked BPSK that Bill and Larry are experimenting with now will go some way towards this. Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: john sexton [mailto:computernetworks@excite.com] > Sent: 2001-02-19 15:16 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: Re: First Trans-Atlantic QSO > > > Hi Alberto, > You may not need to. There's hope for us low ERP guys yet, it > seems that one > just needs to go slower and slower. What about 300 second dots or 1000 > second dots for VK and ZL? > 73, John, G4CNN > > > > > > _______________________________________________________ > Send a cool gift with your E-Card > http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ > > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17744 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 16:50:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 16:50:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 24733 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 16:50:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 16:50:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UtKM-0007Wg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:38:18 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UtKK-0007Wb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:38:17 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:37:18 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:37:16 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Where next? Message-ID: <3A914BBC.21127.199C4CC@localhost> In-reply-to: <3A914553.D8AC3DB@usa.net> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > ..................... One such candidate could be the Steve Onley's FDK. I > know that, theoretically, PSK can have an advantage over non-coherent > FSK, but this doesn't take into account phase distortion over very > long paths. But I will leave to others to discuss about the pros and > cons of the two methods. > 73 Alberto I2PHD A factor that is often ignored when comparing PSK08 (for instance) and QRSS is the difference between relying on a machine to interpret the results and using the brain. The spectrogram-type programs do wonderful work but the final 10dB or so is down to the brain deciding what is a valid signal and what is not, then deciding whether it makes sense or not. We really would have a winner if we can combine the obvious theoretical advantages of using FM (or phase mod) rather than AM, especially when noise is a significant limiting factor, with the advantages of a display that allows the brain to add some dBs by intelligently interpreting the result. For instance, how about produce a display that is the result of subtracting the signals and noise in a given audio band, with the signals and noise in another band of the same bandwidth. This might provide a means of reducing the effect of wideband noise such as static (but not random noise) on a conventional mono-frequency transmission by subtracting the noise in the 'no-signal' band from the band containing the signal. It might also provide a 'comparitor' effect so that FSK signals can be better detected - for a given time period, if the output of 'channel A' is bigger than the output of 'channel B' then it is a binary '1'; if the other way round it is a binary '0'.The important thing is to resist the temptation to feed this into a machine that tries its best to work out whether it is a valid character or not - this is the bit that the brain does better. Mike From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14538 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 16:48:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 16:48:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 13845 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 16:31:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 16:31:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Usyu-0007QT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:16:08 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Usyr-0007QN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:16:05 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:08:27 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:08:25 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Slower and slower Message-ID: <3A9144F9.27870.17F5A6B@localhost> In-reply-to: <6454168.982595788787.JavaMail.imail@bronty> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > You may not need to. There's hope for us low ERP guys yet, it seems > that one just needs to go slower and slower. What about 300 second > dots or 1000 second dots for VK and ZL? 73, John, G4CNN There's nothing to stop you integrating a signal over days, except that the frequency stability and accuracy required (not the same thing) gets tighter and tighter. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26947 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 16:47:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 16:47:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 4793 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 16:25:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 16:25:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Usyx-0007QZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:16:11 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Usyw-0007QO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:16:11 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:11:23 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:11:20 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Some signals Message-ID: <3A9145A8.6925.18208A4@localhost> In-reply-to: <015d01c09a82$e85849a0$0d0e0805@globocabo.com.br> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > I think I got some signals when monitoring 135.920. I set up Argo to > watch from 800Hz (135920) to 806Hz (135926), 60 second dot, slow. > I'm not shure but is there any freq alocation table (who's where?). > PY3CRX/PY2PLL I have compiled a table and will publish it tonight in an amended version of http://www.lf.thersgb.net/transatlantic.htm (try it after 2100 UTC). Mike, G3XDV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25168 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 16:46:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 16:46:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 26921 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 16:21:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 16:21:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Usv4-0007Mt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:12:10 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06lmsgate-3.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Usv3-0007Mo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:12:10 +0000 Received: from d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.147]) by d06lmsgate-3.uk.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id QAA160180 for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:02:14 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (ss2.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.67]) by d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id QAA276574 for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 16:10:43 GMT Message-ID: <3A914553.D8AC3DB@usa.net> Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 17:09:55 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: First Trans-Atlantic QSO References: <6454168.982595788787.JavaMail.imail@bronty> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: john sexton wrote: > Hi Alberto, > You may not need to. There's hope for us low ERP guys yet, it seems that one > just needs to go slower and slower. What about 300 second dots or 1000 > second dots for VK and ZL? > 73, John, G4CNN > John, you probably wrote that with tongue-in-check :-) I'm afraid we have already reached the limits of the stability of the sampling rate of ordinary sound cards. Either OCXO-driven external sampling hardware must be used, or more efficient signalling schemes must be adopted. One such candidate could be the Steve Onley's FDK. I know that, theoretically, PSK can have an advantage over non-coherent FSK, but this doesn't take into account phase distortion over very long paths. But I will leave to others to discuss about the pros and cons of the two methods. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8528 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 16:03:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 16:03:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 18927 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 16:03:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 16:03:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Usg0-0007Gh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:56:36 +0000 Received: from smtp.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.26] helo=tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Usfz-0007Gc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:56:35 +0000 Received: from server1 ([209.226.189.73]) by tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010219155543.VZIQ25007.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:55:43 -0500 Message-ID: <002501c09a8c$1bafaa10$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3A913079.54CA6B29@usa.net> Subject: LF: Re: Re: First Trans-Atlantic QSO Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:49:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alberto: > > Laurie and Larry > > > > Many congratulations on an incredible achievement. > > > > Congratulations also from me. It is an incentive to dig faster for the buried > radials, and to burn some more Mosfets trying to build a decent TX. > > 73 Alberto I2PHD You can do that right after you stroke another 5 dB out of ARGO, and not before hi Wonderful piece of software. By the way I am now, as of this morning, using ARGO remotely, using an UHF FM link to haul the audio to my winter place and running ARGO both at the remote site and here as well. Watching ARGO in comfort is a new experience..... My thanks to you and your partner...... Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5654 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 15:42:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 15:42:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 1440 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 15:39:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 15:39:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UsIM-0007AU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:32:10 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [192.139.219.10] (helo=claven.fanshawec.on.ca) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UsIK-0007A8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:32:08 +0000 Received: from [198.96.18.51] by claven.fanshawec.on.ca with ESMTP; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:30:53 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:31:42 +0000 Subject: LF: Transatlantic From: "Mitch Powell" To: kayser@sympatico.ca Cc: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Larry and Laurie Have been watching the many well-deserved congratulatory messages from literally "around-the-world". Your stamina amazes me - best wishes to you in your continuing search for those elusive "dBs" ! ! Looking forward to copying further transmissions from Eastern Ontario. Vy 73 Mitch VE3OT From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24441 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 15:29:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 15:29:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 9274 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 15:29:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 15:29:30 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Us43-00075r-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:17:23 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ewey-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.191] helo=ewey.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Us40-00075i-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:17:20 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from bronty ([199.172.153.112]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010219151628.GALV2935.ewey.excite.com@bronty> for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 07:16:28 -0800 Message-ID: <6454168.982595788787.JavaMail.imail@bronty> Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 07:16:26 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: First Trans-Atlantic QSO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 62.253.64.5 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Alberto, You may not need to. There's hope for us low ERP guys yet, it seems that one just needs to go slower and slower. What about 300 second dots or 1000 second dots for VK and ZL? 73, John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23154 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 15:02:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 15:02:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 12068 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 15:02:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 15:02:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Urjo-0006vR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 14:56:28 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Urji-0006vB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 14:56:25 +0000 Received: from d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.147]) by d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.COM (1.0.0) with ESMTP id OAA165010 for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 14:39:05 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (ss2.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.67]) by d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id OAA253992 for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 14:54:45 GMT Message-ID: <3A913383.BE5BF534@usa.net> Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:53:55 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Another code References: <01C09A51.2D7E6320.g4jnt@thersgb.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andy talbot wrote: > [snip] > More seriously, we can go on inventing new signalling methods and alphabets > ad-infinitum. But we'll always come up against Shannon's law eventually. > There is an absolutely fundamental limit to the amount of information that > can be sent over a noisy channel in a given bandwidth. > [snip] Odd as it may seem, there is a man (a self-taught one, I am afraid) claiming the impossible with his VMSK signalling scheme. Don't want to spoil your fun by revealing here what he is veemently convinced to be able to achieve. For an interesting reading, go here : http://www.vmsk.org and for a clearly exposed debunking by Phil Karn, KA9Q, that many of you know by fame, go here : http://people.qualcomm.com/karn/papers/vmsk/index.html 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8141 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 14:55:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 14:55:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 12189 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 14:55:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 14:55:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UrdK-0006u1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 14:49:46 +0000 Received: from mail2.globocabo.com.br ([200.231.181.97] helo=ntweb.globocabo.com.br) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UrdB-0006tw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 14:49:45 +0000 Received: from spovdesi1625 (SPOVD-ESI-1625 [5.8.14.13]) by ntweb.globocabo.com.br with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id FCL8AF9B; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 11:48:28 -0300 Message-ID: <015d01c09a82$e85849a0$0d0e0805@globocabo.com.br> From: "PY3CRX PY2PLL" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Some signals Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 11:47:28 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi ... I think I got some signals when monitoring 135.920. I set up Argo to watch from 800Hz (135920) to 806Hz (135926), 60 second dot, slow. Unfortunately, it's summer here so static crashes are really a problem, peaking -60dBm sometimes. My noise floor is -128dBm durying daytime. After some days I could select 2 or 3 snapshots where I "wish" to see some traces. One of them seems to be at 135921,7. There are others. I'm not shure but is there any freq alocation table (who's where?). No decode at all but seems that there's something showing up. The days when this traces are more visible was the same where 153KHz BC was strong here. I'm not watching 137789,4 yet because my antena doesn't have a good coverage to NA (10dB less than at EU direction). 73 Marcus PY3CRX/PY2PLL S. B. do Campo - GG66rf http://py.qsl.br Active from "DC" to 24GHz From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27836 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 14:47:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 14:47:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 8118 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 14:47:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 14:47:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UrUU-0006q0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 14:40:38 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mtiwmhc26.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.51]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UrUR-0006pv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 14:40:35 +0000 Received: from att.net ([12.77.61.109]) by mtiwmhc26.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.10 201-229-121-110) with ESMTP id <20010219144008.CJPH6882.mtiwmhc26.worldnet.att.net@att.net> for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 14:40:08 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A91303A.EBFA6478@att.net> Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 09:39:54 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re. Transatlantic QSO References: <001f01c09a77$ff964dc0$5ec2883e@g3aqc> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Congratulations Laurie and Larry! I knew I was watching history in the making. I captured parts of both of your exchanges over the past several days. Laurie, your signal was perfect copy on two occasions. As good as when I copied your call previously. So we now know that was not a rare occurrence. It appears I can see your signal almost any night than QRN is low here in North Carolina. Larry's signal was so strong here I was tempted to hook up my Philmore cat whisker. Dexter, W4DEX > LAWRENCE MAYHEAD wrote: > > Hi Peter, > We agreed to start on 5/022/01,but I did not see Larry until 9/01 > and although copy was M, I decided to continue listening.Then as you > say Larry had trouble so I spent some time improving my Rx capability. > I recieved him OK on 16/02,and replied the following night. I dont > know when Larry first saw my transmissions but you could possibly time > the Qso from that date. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16240 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 14:47:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 14:47:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 8137 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 14:47:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 14:47:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UrWc-0006q7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 14:42:50 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d12lmsgate.de.ibm.com ([195.212.91.199]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UrWT-0006q2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 14:42:41 +0000 Received: from d12relay02.de.ibm.com (d12relay02.de.ibm.com [9.165.215.23]) by d12lmsgate.de.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id PAA138368 for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:41:49 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (ss2.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.67]) by d12relay02.de.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id PAA80586 for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:41:00 +0100 Message-ID: <3A913079.54CA6B29@usa.net> Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 15:40:57 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (WinNT; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: First Trans-Atlantic QSO References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Laurie and Larry > > Many congratulations on an incredible achievement. > Congratulations also from me. It is an incentive to dig faster for the buried radials, and to burn some more Mosfets trying to build a decent TX. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12106 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 13:36:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 13:36:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 21398 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 13:36:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 13:36:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UqN8-0006Su-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 13:28:58 +0000 Received: from cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.177]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UqN7-0006Sp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 13:28:57 +0000 Received: from modem-94.emerie.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.194.94] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14UqMo-0006Ts-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 13:28:39 +0000 Message-ID: <001f01c09a77$ff964dc0$5ec2883e@g3aqc> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. Transatlantic QSO Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 13:28:55 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi Peter,
We agreed to start on 5/022/01,but I did not see Larry until 9/01
and although  copy was M, I decided to continue listening.Then as you say Larry had trouble so I spent some time improving my Rx capability. I recieved him OK on 16/02,and replied the following night. I dont know when Larry first saw my transmissions but you could possibly time the Qso from that date. 73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24814 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 12:35:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 12:35:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 29501 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 12:35:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 12:35:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UpLm-00065X-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 12:23:30 +0000 Received: from tomts7.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.40] helo=tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UpLk-00065H-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 12:23:29 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.209.110.4]) by tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010219122238.RYIN4700.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 07:22:38 -0500 Message-ID: <005501c09a6e$56ff35e0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <27976547.982581076242.JavaMail.imail@bronty> Subject: Re: LF: TransAtlantic QSO Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 07:18:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John: First, my thanks to you for your part of keeping our communications with between us on process issues and no communications on QSO issues - the difference is important to us hi. > Hearty Congratulations to you both. Hurray! The corks are flying here. > Yes I did see your transmission. It first appeared around 22.30 and faded > out around 00.10 and nothing more seen for the rest of the night. It read "C > O E E L KR O", with no space between the K and the R. Since I wasn't quite > sure, I left Argo running and recording and went to bed, expecting that it > would be seen again after 04.00. First I was a bit excited so when I entered yesterdays sequence, just after 4 AM my time, I forgot to put a space on the end of the sequence so the K and the R got jamed together. My appology for that........ So this morning I checked the results and > there was only that bit up to midnight. Then checked the E-mails and the > rest is history. Yes I went out and turned the TX off and set the receiver to look for LDO. I will go and get those results in a while. > Yes I am ready tonight for BPSK, BUT I still need the ability to record the > output. I can't stay up all night every night. > It's funny you should mention the problem with reading clocks during the > night - I suffer from exactly the same problem, hi! You can set Bill's software to capture straight for 24 hours it will only be a 16 to 20 Kbyte file, not like recording .WAV or what ever hi. > Well once again, Very Well Done guys! That's one in the eye for Big KEV, hi! Well Kev has his issues, they arehis issues, they are not mine hi. I love computers they make solving issues like Kev so very easy and complete. The GII got me for one email but I redefined the algorithm and the software tests and now that and any variants of it are gone to that great bit bucket at the end of the table. John, if humanly possible I will have everything back to normal by tonight, so start looking for BPSK, ET3, GPS Coherent. You, and anyone else with SD boards or a special version of Africam that support ET3 can listen starting tonight. Please remember that GPS Coherent will make it better but the system works without the GPS as well. ET3 is I think 32 bits and really makes forward error correction work demonstrably better. As a general policy statement, in preparation for the work I will do with Europe and ZL/VK later this spring, all transmissions from here will be GPS Coherent in time. There are some dB's on the table ready to be picked up. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10027 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 12:35:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 12:35:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 29563 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 12:35:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 12:35:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UpLh-00065P-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 12:23:25 +0000 Received: from tomts7.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.40] helo=tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UpLd-00065G-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 12:23:22 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.209.110.4]) by tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010219122232.RYHW4700.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 07:22:32 -0500 Message-ID: <005401c09a6e$5385eda0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001d01c09a52$9d3eaca0$b973883e@g3aqc> <00b601c09a62$58872be0$c7ce28c3@ericadodd> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re.LF Transatlantic QSO Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 07:04:37 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Peter: > Laurie said: > >In the early hours of this morning,I completed a QSO with Larry Kayser > VA3LK which was started on 05/02/01. > > CONGRATULATIONS to you Laurie, and Larry on your transatlantic QSO. > Could you confirm you have the start date correct because Larry was QRT on > 10 and 11th due to power failure and on the 14th to the 16th due to > insulator breakage due to ice storms and to travelling, if I have read his > e-mails are correctly. Yes those outages caused time loss, a painful time loss I might add my hands are still sore hi, but the start date is correct. The end date given was for Lauries QTH in UTC time but the email went out from here in my local date and time which was the day before hi. As I understand your email you have read the dates correctly., all within the QSO period. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15407 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 11:28:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 11:28:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 29812 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 11:28:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 11:28:35 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UoNB-0005nU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 11:20:53 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UoN9-0005nP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 11:20:52 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id LAA06723; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 11:22:40 GMT Received: (qmail 10592 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 12:13:06 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 12:13:06 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id MAA21473; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 12:02:18 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma021343; Mon, 19 Feb 01 12:01:39 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-3.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 11:24:20 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-3.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <10C3QHNY>; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 11:19:42 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D75C4@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: "LF Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: Re:Active antenna Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 11:19:52 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: A few years ago I made an active broadband loop antenna for HF for 'official' purposes. This consisted of a 300mm diameter loop of 3mm copper wire into a common base amplifier made from a 2N5109 transistor operated with 50mA collector current. The input impedance was about 0.5 ohm with a collector load of 50 ohms, and no negative feedback was used for a reasonably flat response across the higher part of the HF spectrum. Performing down to 2MHz at least, although sensitivity was falling off there it still gave more than enough signal to hear background noise. This loop vastly outperformed the commercial Procomm active whips we were using at that time as HF collection antennas and even performed better than a homebrew active E Field plus high impedance amp design, based on one in VHF communications some ten years ago (which itself easily outperformed the Procomm). Furthermore, it was immune to the huge locally generated interference levels on this hill overlooking the industrial areas of north Portsmouth ! The ony reason we didn't go ahead with a whole array of these and instead stayed with E Field whips was that the loops were directional against vertically polarised signals. Which was something definitely not wanted at the time. However its omnidirectional properties for H-Pol signals when mounted horizontally made it a good antenna for low angle skywave detection. Such an amplifier with a 1m loop consisting of a few turns of wire would make an excellent LF antenna and could cope with strong signals up to nearly 1 Watt input before overloading. Purely for LF work, an op-amp with feedback could be used and perhaps an even lower input impedance can be achieved. Andy G4JNT >This is compensated by the negative feedback . >The active antenna has a frequency response that is flat from 5kHz to over >30MHz. It stays linear in field strengths up to 10V/m. Great attention has >also been given to proper noise behaviour ("noisemanship"). The input is >protected by diodes against high voltages. Because signal voltages at the >input are very small due to the low input impedance little signal current >flows into the diodes and they do not impair the favourable characteristic >of the active antenna. -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6833 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 11:21:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 11:21:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 5722 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 11:21:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 11:21:52 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UoHH-0005j7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 11:14:47 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ewey-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.191] helo=ewey.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UoHG-0005iz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 11:14:46 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from bronty ([199.172.153.112]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010219111359.ESBW2935.ewey.excite.com@bronty> for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 03:13:59 -0800 Message-ID: <8032025.982581239518.JavaMail.imail@bronty> Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 03:13:56 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: TransAtlantic QSO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 62.253.64.5 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Larry, Hearty Congratulations to you both. Hurray! The corks are flying here. Yes I did see your transmission. It first appeared around 22.30 and faded out around 00.10 and nothing more seen for the rest of the night. It read "C O E E L KR O", with no space between the K and the R. Since I wasn't quite sure, I left Argo running and recording and went to bed, expecting that it would be seen again after 04.00. So this morning I checked the results and there was only that bit up to midnight. Then checked the E-mails and the rest is history. Yes I am ready tonight for BPSK, BUT I still need the ability to record the output. I can't stay up all night every night. It's funny you should mention the problem with reading clocks during the night - I suffer from exactly the same problem, hi! Fortunately Galina, the XYL, doesn't. Must be a male thing, hi! I saw that query from W land yesterday and decided to keep quiet, so no problem. Well once again, Very Well Done guys! That's one in the eye for Big KEV, hi! 73, John _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20853 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 11:19:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 11:19:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 11139 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 11:19:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 11:19:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UoEF-0005in-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 11:11:39 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ewey-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.191] helo=ewey.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UoED-0005ih-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 11:11:38 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from bronty ([199.172.153.112]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010219111116.ERVM2935.ewey.excite.com@bronty> for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 03:11:16 -0800 Message-ID: <27976547.982581076242.JavaMail.imail@bronty> Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 03:11:06 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: TransAtlantic QSO MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 62.253.64.5 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Larry, Hearty Congratulations to you both. Hurray! The corks are flying here. Yes I did see your transmission. It first appeared around 22.30 and faded out around 00.10 and nothing more seen for the rest of the night. It read "C O E E L KR O", with no space between the K and the R. Since I wasn't quite sure, I left Argo running and recording and went to bed, expecting that it would be seen again after 04.00. So this morning I checked the results and there was only that bit up to midnight. Then checked the E-mails and the rest is history. Yes I am ready tonight for BPSK, BUT I still need the ability to record the output. I can't stay up all night every night. It's funny you should mention the problem with reading clocks during the night - I suffer from exactly the same problem, hi! Fortunately Galina, the XYL, doesn't. Must be a male thing, hi! I saw that query from W land yesterday and decided to keep quiet, so no problem. Well once again, Very Well Done guys! That's one in the eye for Big KEV, hi! 73, John _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6031 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 10:58:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 10:58:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 26088 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 10:57:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 10:57:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Unue-0005bV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:51:24 +0000 Received: from amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.45]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Unuc-0005bQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:51:23 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-1-199.easynet.co.uk [195.40.206.199]) by amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 22E7717825 for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:51:04 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <00b601c09a62$58872be0$c7ce28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001d01c09a52$9d3eaca0$b973883e@g3aqc> Subject: LF: Re: Re.LF Transatlantic QSO Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:53:40 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Laurie said: >In the early hours of this morning,I completed a QSO with Larry Kayser VA3LK which was started on 05/02/01. CONGRATULATIONS to you Laurie, and Larry on your transatlantic QSO. Could you confirm you have the start date correct because Larry was QRT on 10 and 11th due to power failure and on the 14th to the 16th due to insulator breakage due to ice storms and to travelling, if I have read his e-mails are correctly. Regards, Peter, G3LDO . From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20425 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 10:55:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 10:55:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 20986 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 10:55:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 10:55:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UnsY-0005ap-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:49:14 +0000 Received: from mail1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.18]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UnsX-0005ak-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:49:13 +0000 Received: from modem-24.calaquendi.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.144.24] helo=g3aqc) by mail1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14Ungt-0006H9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:37:12 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01c09a61$af3400e0$1890883e@g3aqc> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re. Transatlantic QSO Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:49:49 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
I should have included Andy G4JNT who gave me his PLL without which I would have been in the despised "wobble" mode. Thanks Andy.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20482 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 10:45:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 10:45:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 25507 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 10:45:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 10:45:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Unj7-0005W9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:39:29 +0000 Received: from cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.171]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Unj3-0005W4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:39:26 +0000 Received: from modem-41.silicon.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.13.41] helo=robing) by cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14UnX7-0006bk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:27:06 +0000 Message-ID: <003801c09a60$6965efc0$290d883e@robing> From: "Robin T. Greenwood" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000c01c099e9$33c43420$4ba874d5@w8k3f0> <001001c09a01$18269380$b7ca28c3@ericadodd> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Fw: Active antenna Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:37:01 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Peter. I have a Decca Preamp mounted on my Garden shed (Height 3.5 M.) and I have a 0.75M. steel whip on it. The shed is well away from any other buildings and the antenna seems to be excellent although I have little else to compare it with. I will scan the circuit and send it to you. I have The LH0002 in obsolete but an LM6321in OKin the circuit. I have laid out a PCB to which I added a single parallel 136 kHz. tuned circuit across the input. The layout is available as a HPGL file for anyone interested. I think the Decca drum antenna was that shape it was for electrostatic reasons. The Decca signal were quite strong at each others site, so I guess a high elevation was not necessary. However I now wish I had picked up the drum and support pole when I had them in my hand. I could have put the bird feeder on to to keep off the squirrels and cat!! Robin G3LBA ----- Original Message ----- From: "g3ldo" To: Sent: Sunday, February 18, 2001 11:13 PM Subject: LF: Re: Fw: Active antenna From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15640 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 10:30:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 10:30:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 27678 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 10:30:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 10:30:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UnUL-0005QW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:24:13 +0000 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UnUJ-0005QQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:24:12 +0000 Received: from [213.122.217.181] (helo=default) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14UnU1-0005uz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:23:53 +0000 Message-ID: <000f01c09a5d$a7e347a0$b5d97ad5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots for w.e. 17/18th Feb at GB7DXM Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:19:48 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, quite a reasonable number of spots this weekend. There seemed to be a fair amount of activity stimulated by DJ9IE who was a good steady signal all weekend here. He certainly worked several stations whose calls I had not heard. One of these was PI3CPM who did not even show on the waterfall here. I was not listening carefully so this may have been a crossband qso.... all useful for increasing the interest and activity. Cluster spots follow :- I am not sure I follow the posting from K1TTT at 1530 136.5 DJ9IE 18-Feb-2001 2018Z heard 539/Delta Loop 80m 136.5 DJ9IE 18-Feb-2001 2013Z clg cq 137.1 GW4ALG 18-Feb-2001 1938Z cq, 'no takers'.. 136.5 DJ9IE 18-Feb-2001 1551Z calling OM2TW 136.5 OM2TW 18-Feb-2001 1545Z 136.6 OK1MRS 18-Feb-2001 1533Z 136.7 DJ2LF/NOBUST 18-Feb-2001 1530Z 136.7 DJ2LF 18-Feb-2001 1529Z 137.7 I5TGC 18-Feb-2001 1018Z CQ on QRSS 137.7 HB9ASB 18-Feb-2001 0922Z QESS 136.8 DJ2EY 18-Feb-2001 0912Z 549 cq 137.7 DF6NM 17-Feb-2001 1136Z 136.5 OE5ODL 17-Feb-2001 1009Z 136.7 OM2TW 16-Feb-2001 1938Z befope calling...CQ.& NW AGA 135.9 ALK 15-Feb-2001 2000Z QRSS very slow 136.9 OE5ODL 13-Feb-2001 2137Z 137.7 I5TGC 13-Feb-2001 2024Z CQ on QRSS 137.7 DL7YA 12-Feb-2001 2057Z DFCW 136.6 OE5ODL 12-Feb-2001 1934Z 559 on 7 MHz Delta loop 136.7 OE5ODL 12-Feb-2001 1930Z cq cq cq 136.8 F6BWO 12-Feb-2001 1808Z today gd signal hr nr Frankf G3NYK de GB7MRS 19-Feb-2001 1008Z > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23343 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 10:22:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 10:22:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 15896 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 10:22:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 10:22:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UnN6-0005PN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:16:44 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UnN2-0005PG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:16:41 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:03:19 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:03:17 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: It's L at the top Message-ID: <3A90EF65.21430.3112C0@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On Sunday I increased the inductance at the top of my mast. I replaced 3mH of Litz wire with 7mH of ordinary wire. This made the antenna almost self-resonant. In fact, I needed a 6800pF capacitor (very heavy duty oil-filled, from the Puckeridge Decca site) in series with my 0.5mH variometer to tune it. As expected, the current dropped - from 2.7A to 2.2A - as the point of maximum current went higher up the mast. There have been no measurements yet, but initial results seem good. I received the best ever reports from GW (599), GM (589) and SM (579), and worked DJ9IE (559) who had never replied to my calls before. An all-night transmission using 30s dots on 135.9235kHz did not seem to cause any trouble, so all seems stable. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 796 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 09:50:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 09:50:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 8703 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 09:50:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 09:50:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Umrg-0005BC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 09:44:16 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: High Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Umrc-0005B7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 09:44:12 +0000 Received: from [212.1.148.147] (helo=standalone) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Ulwf-0000P9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 08:45:22 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 08:51:41 -0000 Message-ID: <01C09A51.2D7E6320.g4jnt@thersgb.net> From: "Andy talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Re: Another code Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 08:51:15 -0000 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Correct :-( But someone has now forwarded the semaphore alphabet so when a few idle few minutes come along .......... More seriously, we can go on inventing new signalling methods and alphabets ad-infinitum. But we'll always come up against Shannon's law eventually. There is an absolutely fundamental limit to the amount of information that can be sent over a noisy channel in a given bandwidth. Nothing will change that, and with all the crude signalling schemes we play with on LF, we are many tens of dB short of the Shannon limit. But until hams actually want to start pushing technology again like they did only a couple of decades ago instead of being pulled by it......... But it is fun playing :-) Andy G4JNT Andy.. You're joking, aren't you? It would probably end up disregarded too, like some other modes, by some, and the weather isn't allways that helpfull. Ko.. -----Original Message----- From: Ko Versteeg [SMTP:nl9222@wanadoo.nl] Sent: 2001/02/18 18:37 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Another code At 2/18/01 17:34:00, you wrote: >Sort of suggests a Multifrequency Version similar to SMT Hell. >There's a thought. :-) > >Easy to do with the DDS driver. >What is the Semaphore alphabet ? > >Andy G4JNT > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14653 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 09:07:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 09:07:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 8136 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 09:07:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 09:07:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UmCP-00050D-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 09:01:37 +0000 Received: from cmailg2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.172]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UmCN-000506-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 09:01:35 +0000 Received: from modem-57.annatar.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.115.185] helo=g3aqc) by cmailg2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14UmBs-0008D3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 09:01:04 +0000 Message-ID: <001d01c09a52$9d3eaca0$b973883e@g3aqc> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re.LF Transatlantic QSO Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 09:01:56 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi All,
In the early hours of this morning,I completed a QSO with Larry Kayser VA3LK which was started on 05/02/01. I would like to thank those who made this possible,All on this reflector for help and advice,Peter Dodd for the LF Handbook Rik Strobbe for QRS and Alberto for Argo.Thanks also to all those sending congrats.73s Laurie. 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7577 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 09:00:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 09:00:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 6230 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 09:00:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 09:00:34 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Um23-0004rc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 08:50:55 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.sci.fi ([195.197.53.226] helo=vasta.saunalahti.fi) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Um22-0004rT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 08:50:54 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from meisaku (MMMDCCLXIII.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.164.163]) by vasta.saunalahti.fi (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id f1J8pO814296 for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:51:24 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010219105033.0082a770@pop.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: vaiski1@pop.saunalahti.fi (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 10:50:33 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: LF: Fs Measurements by OH2LX, 19-Feb-2001 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Fs in dB(uV/m) by OH2LX, abt 2035 UTC (99=Nil): >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kHz;05feb;06feb;07feb;08feb;09feb;10feb;11feb;12feb;13feb;14feb;15feb;16feb; 17feb;18feb 057.7;99;99;99;99;99;99;99;99;99;99;99;99;99;99;(=stn under construction) 060.0;53;49;50;52;47;50;48;48;38;50;46;50;52;48 068.0;52;50;51;51;54;52;54;52;51;52;47;54;52;49 068.9;99;99;99;99;52;50;49;99;99;99;99;99;99;99 073.2;51;49;51;52;47;51;99;99;51;47;46;45;54;49;(carrier peaking 73.2 or 73.3) 075.0;44;42;41;41;37;40;38;38;36;41;43;38;42;42 077.5;54;52;53;54;49;52;53;52;50;53;50;56;55;53 128.9;48;45;42;42;44;39;46;42;46;42;42;44;46;43 138.8;52;44;46;46;50;44;53;38;52;45;46;52;52;53 135.8;06;05;01;14;20;18;20;99;99;99;99;-9;24;20 137.0;99;99;99;99;99;99;99;99;99;99;99;99;99;99 016.0;56;51;51;51;49;49;49;48;50;49;48;49;50;48 018.3;60;57;56;56;52;53;53;52;52;53;53;53;54;53 023.4;68;68;66;65;62;65;65;63;63;63;62;63;63;61 024.0;42;46;44;99;38;39;38;38;42;44;38;40;41;40 ;;Day;05;06;07;08;09;10;11;12;13;14;15;16;17;18 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Day;Time;Call;Fs 07feb;2044;OH1BS;20 09feb;2159;SM6PXJ;10 10feb;2114;OH1BS;21 11feb;2055;OZ1KMR;-5;(or OK1ARN?) 11feb;2230;OZ1KMR;-5 11feb;2115;CFH;-5 11feb;2117;CFH;-3 11feb;2225;CFH;-4 12feb;2051;OH1BS;16 12feb;2056;OH1BS;14 12feb;2100;OH1BS;11 12feb;2115;OH1BS;15 12feb;2240;DJ8WX;-3 12feb;2320;CFH;+2(?) 13feb;2129;DJ9IE;-1 13feb;2135;DJ9IE;-0 13feb;2146;DJ9IE;-2 13feb;2115;CFH;-2 14feb;2044;OH1BS;19 14feb;2046;ON6ND;-2 14feb;2258;ON6ND;-0 14feb;2300;F6CNI;-5 15feb;2112;OH1TN;14 15feb;2115;OH1TN;10 15feb;2111;IK5ZPV;-3 15feb;2145;ON6ND;-1 18feb;2014;DL9IE;-2 18feb;2022;DJ9IE;-2 18feb;2029;DJ9IE;-1 18feb;2037;DJ9IE;-1 18feb;2042;DJ9IE;-1 18feb;2113;DJ9IE;-0 ------------------------------------------------------- (R&S ESH2/-----10m coax----->/1:10/-----15m wire-----): Noise level (136.3-136.9) with antenna, in 200Hz IF Bw: -24..-22 dB(uV)-> estim. Field strength -4..-2 dB(uV/m) ------------------------------------------------------- End of message of 19-Feb-2001, 0830 UTC, from OH2LX ------------------------------------------------------- |---------------------------------------------------------| | V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX ¤ 60N33.6 024E58.7 KP20LN74 | | P.O.Box 50 ¤ Telephone: +358-9-4173965 | | FIN-05401, Jokela ¤ Telefax: +358-9-4173961 | | Finland ¤ email: vaiski@dlc.fi | |---------------------------------------------------------| From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26107 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 08:47:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 08:47:47 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 3424 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 08:47:37 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 08:47:37 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Ulpn-0004pJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 08:38:15 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.91]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Ulpm-0004pE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 08:38:14 +0000 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14UlpW-0001N6-0X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 08:37:59 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 08:36:13 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: LF: First Trans-Atlantic QSO MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 3.05 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Laurie and Larry Many congratulations on an incredible achievement. 73, Tom G3OLB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22625 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 08:43:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 08:43:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 12872 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 08:43:43 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 08:43:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Ulm4-0004p2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 08:34:24 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from dargolad.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.27]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Ulm3-0004ox-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 08:34:23 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ea.esoterica.pt (ea.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.204]) by dargolad.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1J8Y5I19223 for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 08:34:05 GMT Received: from slave2 (por014.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.14]) by ea.esoterica.pt (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA02142 for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 08:34:04 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010219083351.007ec830@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 08:33:51 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: LF: Firewall MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Valerio, Your firewall blocks my replies to you. 73, Brian 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24884 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 08:40:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 08:40:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 14165 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 08:40:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 08:40:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Ulj2-0004ls-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 08:31:16 +0000 Received: from tor-smtp1.netcom.ca ([207.181.101.69]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Ulj0-0004ln-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 08:31:15 +0000 Received: from david (ham-on52-157.netcom.ca [142.154.68.93]) by tor-smtp1.netcom.ca (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7) with SMTP id DAA04596 for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 03:30:57 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <020c01c09a4e$9ce73aa0$6655872c@david> From: "Tenty" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001601c09737$b648e580$0564a8c0@rick> <009501c09789$b952d0e0$62b21bca@xtr743187> <005501c097ad$ca95df90$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> <000901c098cc$62ae14e0$66b51bca@xtr743187> <003801c098d1$62718ed0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> <000b01c0993e$0192e4c0$51b51bca@xtr743187> <004901c09a0e$967cb9f0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> Subject: LF: Re: TransAtlantic QSO Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 08:32:43 -0000 Organization: Holland Data and Wireless MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Congratulations Larry and Laurie!! - If you can dream it, you can do it - Bob, ve3tok / pa0tok >TransAtlantic_QSO on LF completed >On February 19th Laurie Mayhead, G3AQC and Larry Kayser, VA3LK completed a >TransAtlantic QSO between the UK and Eastern Ontario on 136 kHz. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17554 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 07:25:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 07:25:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 15456 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 07:25:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 07:25:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UkZA-0004P3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 07:17:00 +0000 Received: from ds-img-7.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.153] helo=spdmbaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UkZ9-0004Oy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 07:16:59 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmbaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id CAA00099 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 02:15:03 -0500 (EST) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 02:14:47 -0500 From: "Holger 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: TransAtlantic QSO To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200102190214_MC2-C600-862A@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Larry and Laurie, congratulations on this success, despite what other people might say, at least I am sure that despite of the first successcful transatlantic QSO on LF you can claim to have had the longest lasting QSO ever in history of ham radio! Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12710 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 06:52:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 06:52:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 28250 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 06:52:41 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 06:52:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Uk4P-0004D0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 06:45:13 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rhun.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.26]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Uk4O-0004CQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 06:45:12 +0000 Received: from ea.esoterica.pt (ea.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.204]) by rhun.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1J6isb13424 for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 06:44:54 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from slave2 (por338.esoterica.pt [195.22.18.38]) by ea.esoterica.pt (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA05418 for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 06:44:53 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010219064441.007f97e0@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 06:44:41 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: TransAtlantic QSO In-reply-to: <004901c09a0e$967cb9f0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> References: <001601c09737$b648e580$0564a8c0@rick> <009501c09789$b952d0e0$62b21bca@xtr743187> <005501c097ad$ca95df90$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> <000901c098cc$62ae14e0$66b51bca@xtr743187> <003801c098d1$62718ed0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> <000b01c0993e$0192e4c0$51b51bca@xtr743187> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Congratulations Larry and Laurie. 73, Brian At 19:54 18/02/01 -0500, you wrote: >TransAtlantic_QSO on LF completed 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4601 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 06:50:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 06:50:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 21145 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 06:50:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 06:50:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Uk2A-00048n-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 06:42:54 +0000 Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Uk28-00048g-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 06:42:53 +0000 Received: from mcalevey ([210.54.196.97]) by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010219064207.GYXH13164680.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@mcalevey> for ; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:42:07 +1300 Message-ID: <000a01c09a3e$cdf66220$61c436d2@mcalevey> From: "mcalevey" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001601c09737$b648e580$0564a8c0@rick> <009501c09789$b952d0e0$62b21bca@xtr743187> <005501c097ad$ca95df90$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> <000901c098cc$62ae14e0$66b51bca@xtr743187> <003801c098d1$62718ed0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> <000b01c0993e$0192e4c0$51b51bca@xtr743187> <004901c09a0e$967cb9f0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> Subject: LF: Re: TransAtlantic QSO Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 19:39:34 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Congratulations Laurie, Larry, Peter, John and Jack on your recent LF transatlantic contacts. You are all an inspiration to us isolated LF'ers in VK/ZL. Mike ZL4OL From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11898 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 06:12:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 06:12:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 18549 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 06:12:27 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 06:12:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UjUA-0003yD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 06:07:46 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from outbound.charter.net ([24.216.159.200] helo=front003.cluster1.charter.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UjU9-0003y5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 06:07:45 +0000 Received: from [24.241.94.168] (HELO z6l3g7.highnoonfilm.com) by front003.cluster1.charter.net (CommuniGate Pro SMTP 3.4b8) with ESMTP id 15220193 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 01:06:48 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.0.20010219000025.00a63bf0@pop3.norton.antivirus> X-Sender: les/highnoonfilm.com@pop3.norton.antivirus X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Mon, 19 Feb 2001 00:02:28 -0600 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Les Rayburn" Subject: Re: LF: VA3LK back on for two days transmitting In-reply-to: <001b01c0986f$5b6b62d0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> References: <000201c0985b$b8b6af80$d3337ad5@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 06:22 PM 2/16/01 -0500, you wrote: >Greetings All: > >Repairs to the antenna are complete and the amps are going into the right >place and the signal is being received in the village at the right level. I >hope this experience is now finished work Hi. > >137.7894 90 and 180 second bits > >Larry >VA3LK Larry, Congratulations on bridging the Atlantic! I know that this historic accomplishment is the result of months and months of hard work. Only another LF operator could really appreciate all that went into making this QSO. Hopefully news of the event will also help the FCC to come to terms with our request for an LF allocation down here in the states, and also to encourage other hams to get involved. My hat is off to you sir, wonderful news! Les Rayburn, N1LF 4919 Cox Cove Helena, AL 35080 XMGR 184.900khz 1LF 187.300khz From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8068 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 04:33:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 04:33:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 448 invoked from network); 19 Feb 2001 04:32:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 19 Feb 2001 04:32:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Uhtf-0003Oi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 04:25:59 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from immtapop3.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.40.140]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Uhtd-0003Od-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 19 Feb 2001 04:25:57 +0000 Received: from ieee.org (client-151-200-114-63.bellatlantic.net [151.200.114.63]) by immtapop3.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id XAA21620; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 23:25:35 -0500 (EST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A90A116.5B336056@ieee.org> Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 23:29:10 -0500 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Looking for info on the Luxemburg effect References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: DL4YHF@aol.com wrote: > [...] > I'd like to learn a bit more about the Luxemburg effect on LF. I am sending directly to your e-mail address copies of three messages placed on this reflector a few years ago. Should other readers be interested too, let me know and I shall re-post them on this reflector. > The search engine showed some hits at www.amrad.org but the amrad server did > not respond. Yes we had our fair share of problems, as our ISP installed a new frame relay link, but the AMRAD web page should be OK now. Please try again, and let me know if you still encounter difficulties in accessing it. Incidentally, we have now put on our web page the 2 articles by Tim Hulick W9QQ on "The Digital Amplitude Modulator" and "The Digital Linear Amplifier". 73 Andre' N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26400 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2001 23:24:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Feb 2001 23:24:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 25130 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2001 23:24:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 18 Feb 2001 23:24:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Ud30-0001cj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 23:15:18 +0000 Received: from latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.40]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Ud2y-0001cT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 23:15:16 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-3-183.easynet.co.uk [195.40.202.183]) by latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 9BD2E53B28 for ; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 23:14:59 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <001101c09a01$194b8b80$b7ca28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: QRSS transmission Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 23:17:46 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: If I can get myself out of bed in time in the morning I will switch on the LF transmitter to send G3LDO with 30 sec dots. The frequency will be 135.921kHz provided the sub zero temperature in the LF shack has not affected the DDS unit. Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9101 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2001 23:23:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Feb 2001 23:23:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 20615 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2001 23:23:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 18 Feb 2001 23:23:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Ud2y-0001cZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 23:15:16 +0000 Received: from latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.40]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Ud2x-0001c3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 23:15:15 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-3-183.easynet.co.uk [195.40.202.183]) by latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 68D0853B1D for ; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 23:14:58 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <001001c09a01$18269380$b7ca28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000c01c099e9$33c43420$4ba874d5@w8k3f0> Subject: LF: Re: Fw: Active antenna Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 23:13:06 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dick said: >It has been mentioned several times that the input stage of an active receiving antenna is easily damaged by lightning in the vicinity due to the very high input impedance of the amplfier. >Several years ago Dr. (now professor) E.H. Nordholt of the Technical University Delft in The Netherlands developed an alternative design for an active antenna that does not suffer from this problem. >Instead of making the input impedance very high it has been made very low instead by means of negative feedback. As a result the E-field probe, a piece of copper tube of 50cm long and 3cm diameter, now feeds a current into the FET at the input. Because of the probe's capacitive impedance the current increases with frequency at 6dB/octave. >This is compensated by the negative feedback . This is most interesting. Some of us have active antennas from the Decca transmitter sites used for the monitor receivers. G3GRO has used one of these active antennas with a whip antenna, which when raised well above other electromagnetic obstructions (as suggested by G3JKV) gives results at least as good as with a resonant transmitting antenna. My own Decca active antenna, located on the side of the house only 7m high does not perform that well. I have received an active antenna, for testing in the EU environment, from Frank Gentges, K0BRA, with e-mail advice to mount the antenna as high as possible. However, the Decca active antennas did not use whip antennas, instead they used copper drums about .5m in diameter and .5m long, mounted only 1.5m above the ground (three of them located only 2m apart) . The Decca active antennas appear to have a couple of opamps with a resistor on a link, which can be changed to alter the gain (I do not have a circuit). Could these be a Prof Nordholt's design? Does this design need to be mounted high above electromagnetic obstructions to perform well as with the conventional active antenna with a whip? Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29362 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2001 22:05:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Feb 2001 22:05:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 10857 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2001 22:05:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 18 Feb 2001 22:05:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Ubr4-00018T-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 21:58:54 +0000 Received: from tomts7.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.40] helo=tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Ubr3-00018O-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 21:58:53 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.208.85.148]) by tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010218215805.KFCJ4700.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 16:58:05 -0500 Message-ID: <002e01c099f5$919f3020$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.3.32.20010218085431.00fd8dd0@pop.netzero.net> Subject: LF: 135.9235 approx, last night Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 16:44:09 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings All: I am studying the .jpg's from last night and there was a signal on about 135.9235 that has a definite cyclic frequency change, about a 50 to 75 milliHz change over say an hour or so. The signal was I suspect sending conventional CW which was hopelessly smeered by ARGO in the 60 second dot mode hi. Interesting, studying the 2.4 Hz window around 135.922 I am seeing a number of signals that if they were sending 90 or 120 second dits would be readable overe here. I sure would like find out who else was transmitting last night around 135.922. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11020 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2001 21:30:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Feb 2001 21:30:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 2995 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2001 21:30:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 18 Feb 2001 21:30:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UbJw-0000yK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 21:24:40 +0000 Received: from rubellite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UbJv-0000yF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 21:24:39 +0000 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust75.tnt37.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.116.168.75]) by rubellite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 996BE2BA5 for ; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 21:24:17 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000c01c099e9$33c43420$4ba874d5@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Fw: Active antenna Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 21:26:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
 
To All from PA0SE
 
It has been mentioned several times that the input stage of an active receiving antenna is easily damaged by lightning in the vicinity due to the very high input impedance of the amplfier.
 
Several years ago Dr. (now professor) E.H. Nordholt of the Technical University Delft in The Netherlands developed an alternative design for an active antenna that does not suffer from this problem.
Instead of making the input impedance very high it has been made very low instead by means of negative feedback. As a result the E-field probe, a piece of copper tube of 50cm long and 3cm diameter, now feeds a current into the FET at the input. Because of the probe's capacitive impedance the current increases with frequency at  6dB/octave.
This is compensated by the negative feedback .
 
The active antenna has a frequency response that is flat from 5kHz to over 30MHz. It stays linear in field strengths up to 10V/m. Great attention has also been given to proper noise behaviour ("noisemanship"). The input is protected by diodes against high voltages. Because signal voltages at the input are very small due to the low input impedance little signal current flows into the diodes and they do not impair the favourable characteristic of the active antenna.
In a test the antenna was not damaged by sparks jumping to the probe from a car ignition coil.
 
I have sent a similar text, together with a circuit diagram, to the reflector before but it may have been too long for distribution.
But particulars can be found in:
 
E.H. Nordholt, D. van Willigen: "A new approach to active antenna design", IEEE Transactions on Ant. and Prop., vol. AP-28, no. 6, November 1980.
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
 
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10812 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2001 19:38:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Feb 2001 19:38:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 11359 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2001 19:37:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 18 Feb 2001 19:37:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UZYk-0000Oa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 19:31:50 +0000 Received: from fep01.swip.net ([130.244.199.129] helo=fep01-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UZYj-0000OV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 19:31:49 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.35.24]) by fep01-svc.swip.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with SMTP id <20010218193103.LNNV24117.fep01-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 20:31:03 +0100 Message-ID: <001301c099e1$6ec269a0$182397d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Interesting reading... Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 20:31:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, http://members.aol.com/jnrstanley/mainpres.htm 73 Johan, SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29845 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2001 18:46:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Feb 2001 18:46:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 9520 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2001 18:46:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 18 Feb 2001 18:46:04 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UYkH-00004E-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 18:39:41 +0000 Received: from smtp.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.193.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UYkG-000048-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 18:39:40 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from default (p0920.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.202.157]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA21487 for ; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 19:39:20 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <200102181839.TAA21487@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 19:37:15 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Another code X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 2/18/01 17:34:00, you wrote: >Sort of suggests a Multifrequency Version similar to SMT Hell. >There's a thought. :-) > >Easy to do with the DDS driver. >What is the Semaphore alphabet ? > >Andy G4JNT > Andy.. You're joking, aren't you? It would probably end up disregarded too, like some other modes, by some, and the weather isn't allways that helpfull. Ko.. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10942 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2001 17:55:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Feb 2001 17:55:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 28909 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2001 17:55:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 18 Feb 2001 17:55:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UXu8-0008KJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 17:45:48 +0000 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UXu7-0008KE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 17:45:48 +0000 Received: from [212.1.137.116] (helo=g4jnt) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14UXa7-0004qH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 17:25:07 +0000 Message-ID: <001901c099d1$24d928c0$748901d4@g4jnt> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Another code Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 17:34:34 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Sort of suggests a Multifrequency Version similar to SMT Hell. There's a thought. :-) Easy to do with the DDS driver. What is the Semaphore alphabet ? Andy G4JNT -----Original Message----- From: Ko Versteeg To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 18 February 2001 15:00 Subject: LF: Another code >One other mode that never failed (see attachement) > >73 de Ko, NL9222 > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23058 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2001 14:48:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 18 Feb 2001 14:48:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 22921 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2001 14:48:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 18 Feb 2001 14:48:53 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UV2v-0007H9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 14:42:41 +0000 Received: from smtp.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.193.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UV2u-0007H4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 14:42:40 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from default (p733.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.201.225]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA09768 for ; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 15:42:19 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <200102181442.PAA09768@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 15:40:14 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Another code X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] X-FoxAttach: C:\My Documents\morse.gif MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------080004040404090600000103" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------080004040404090600000103 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit One other mode that never failed (see attachement) 73 de Ko, NL9222 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tOdzmNmzFDjSCKQPYOVI8+VA9gXFJkT+bAVOOfbYRQ44oKTBmG36lFgoRPaQMxpoySSVSInb NLLNN20Itw9c0wm04TbpgpOOPZeCI4+g2qRXLpYVKcmfNOQAU0pSzfyD3T/eRBqJrDuG1RBj QWkbTDwJtWHnNuYyimxw+Ta07z/ptjOQuLelxyB3Qd3rnj8V3pbGRY4KZIvMWp4b0bBiyexo ygiuLJAsNFvTBMfmAsXQtUFF4oYtjqBQRAqdTTuSRzYLbUsKNAJQQhwwElBCEhhHRLVEl2kD 49wkNEQyd40kbPjb20A92cbfxP4cRyOREKswrQgypLjQjKvX5uP6Qu5445S7HfnkfFeu+eaM BwQAIf8LR0lGQ09ObmIxLjACCAAOBgACAAMAAAAAAAAAAAAGdy5HSUYADgYAAgAFAAAAAAAA AAAABmUuR0lGAA4GAAIABwAAAAAAAAAAAAZsLkdJRgAOBgACAAkAAAAAAAAAAAAGYy5HSUYA DgYAAgALAAAAAAAAAAAABm8uR0lGAA4GAAIADQAAAAAAAAAAAAZtLkdJRgAOBgACAA8AAAAA AAAAAAAGZS5HSUYADgkAAgASAAAAAAAAAAAACW51bGwuR0lGAAA7 --------------080004040404090600000103-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15886 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2001 14:19:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Feb 2001 14:19:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 28416 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2001 14:19:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 18 Feb 2001 14:19:48 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UUY8-00076k-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 14:10:52 +0000 Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UUY7-00076f-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 14:10:51 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.d4.2834148 (4222) for ; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 09:10:09 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 09:10:08 EST Subject: LF: Looking for info on the Luxemburg effect To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 69 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello group, I'd like to learn a bit more about the Luxemburg effect on LF. There have been a few mails to the reflector mentioning this effect some months ago, and some stations told me I got lost in the LX-effect QRM (IK5ZPV, sri you got my call wrong a few weeks ago...it was DF0WD not DL0WD who was desperately calling you in CW ;-) In short terms, the Luxemburg effect has something to with 'heated electrons' in the ionosphere wich kind of 'transfer' the AM modulation of a strong BC station to other signals. But the way it actually occurs, if it only happens to signals arriving via 'skywave propagation' etc is unknown to me. The only article I found with a tiny bit of information is at http://radon.ece.uiuc.edu/gel_history.html. The search engine showed some hits at www.amrad.org but the amrad server did not respond. Any infos welcome (please to the reflector, it may be interesting for other readers too). Thanks in advance, 73's, Wolf. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27183 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2001 14:12:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Feb 2001 14:12:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 12626 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2001 14:12:28 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 18 Feb 2001 14:12:28 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UUQA-00075z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 14:02:38 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail9.wlv.netzero.net ([209.247.163.66]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UUQ9-00075u-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 14:02:37 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 6563 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2001 14:01:23 -0000 Received: from pppa93-resaleplymouth1-1r7204.dialinx.net (HELO lazzo) (4.54.152.154) by mail9.wlv.netzero.net with SMTP; 18 Feb 2001 14:01:23 -0000 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20010218085431.00fd8dd0@pop.netzero.net> X-Sender: w1jhj@pop.netzero.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 18 Feb 2001 08:54:31 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Jonathan Jesse" Subject: LF: Who was it sending LKRROO? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello, Early this morning I received and captured "LK RR OO" on 135.92?khz. Nice signal but who was it? Have screen captures. 73, Jon W1JHJ Plymouth, MA FN41qw http://geocities.com/ws1k.rm Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3648 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2001 01:57:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Feb 2001 01:57:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 1440 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2001 01:57:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 18 Feb 2001 01:57:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UJ0A-0003Ec-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 01:51:02 +0000 Received: from tomts8.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.52] helo=tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UJ09-0003EW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 18 Feb 2001 01:51:01 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.209.110.180]) by tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010218015014.XCYM11345.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 20:50:14 -0500 Message-ID: <001b01c0994c$d7a93a10$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000601c0993c$22c99e60$b1af01d5@default> Subject: LF: Re: Ceramic Insulators...whoops Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 20:47:56 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alan: > Hi all, well I had an idea there might be a little interest, but I had > reckoned on having an export business as well! From the sound of the > voltages I think you will have to daisy chain them Larry ! 25p is about > $0.38 at the present Exchange rate. > > I will take 'wish' orders, until I manage to contact the Trader and find out > what stock he has. In that case I will take 10 if I can get them. and Thank Your for your efforts. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9846 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2001 00:00:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 18 Feb 2001 00:00:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 5979 invoked from network); 18 Feb 2001 00:00:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 18 Feb 2001 00:00:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UH8H-0002Y3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 23:51:17 +0000 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UH8G-0002Xy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 23:51:16 +0000 Received: from [213.1.175.177] (helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14UH80-0006CK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 23:51:00 +0000 Message-ID: <000601c0993c$22c99e60$b1af01d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Ceramic Insulators...whoops Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 20:22:19 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, well I had an idea there might be a little interest, but I had reckoned on having an export business as well! From the sound of the voltages I think you will have to daisy chain them Larry ! 25p is about $0.38 at the present Exchange rate. I will take 'wish' orders, until I manage to contact the Trader and find out what stock he has. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21177 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2001 20:44:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Feb 2001 20:44:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 19056 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2001 20:44:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 17 Feb 2001 20:44:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UE3m-0001X4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 20:34:26 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [194.200.20.13] (helo=mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14UE3j-0001Wz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 20:34:23 +0000 Received: from useram68.netscapeonline.co.uk ([62.125.132.241] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 14UDz8-0006sC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 20:29:39 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A8EDF71.73155CBB@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 20:30:42 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: change Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All Freeserve has virtually ground to a halt so I have changed to netscapeonline and find it much better. User id gii3kev. G3kev and gi3kev are already in use and not available. 73 de g3kev From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3919 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2001 11:09:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Feb 2001 11:09:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 20436 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2001 11:09:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Feb 2001 11:09:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14U56f-00077W-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 11:00:49 +0000 Received: from latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.40]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14U56c-00077R-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 11:00:46 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-13-14.easynet.co.uk [212.134.22.14]) by latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 438E054419 for ; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 11:00:17 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <001201c098d1$468ff440$0e1686d4@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: LF book errata Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 11:02:46 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The Addendum and Errata to the LF book has been updated and is on http://web.ukonline.co.uk/g3ldo In particular the S/W for the 3-M impedance measuring box can be downloaded. Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26588 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2001 05:45:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Feb 2001 05:45:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 4524 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2001 05:45:38 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 17 Feb 2001 05:45:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14U03K-0005SP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 05:37:02 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rhun.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.26]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14U03I-0005SK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 05:37:01 +0000 Received: from ea.esoterica.pt (ea.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.204]) by rhun.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1H5agb03503 for ; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 05:36:42 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from slave2 (por347.esoterica.pt [195.22.18.47]) by ea.esoterica.pt (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA28128 for ; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 05:36:41 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010217053650.007e8250@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 05:36:50 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: VA3LK back on for two days transmitting In-reply-to: <001b01c0986f$5b6b62d0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> References: <000201c0985b$b8b6af80$d3337ad5@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Larry, I am hoping to make a couple of European qso's in the next four hours, after that I was thinking of transmitting on 135931.0Hz as allocated in the T/A table. Are you interested and is there any point? 73, Brian At 18:22 16/02/01 -0500, you wrote: >Greetings All: > >Repairs to the antenna are complete and the amps are going into the right >place and the signal is being received in the village at the right level. I >hope this experience is now finished work Hi. > >137.7894 90 and 180 second bits > >Larry >VA3LK > > > > > > 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6453 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2001 05:36:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 17 Feb 2001 05:36:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 14603 invoked from network); 17 Feb 2001 05:36:18 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 17 Feb 2001 05:36:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Tzts-0005Nv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 05:27:16 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rhun.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.26]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Tztq-0005Nq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 05:27:15 +0000 Received: from ea.esoterica.pt (ea.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.204]) by rhun.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1H5Qub03169 for ; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 05:26:56 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from slave2 (por347.esoterica.pt [195.22.18.47]) by ea.esoterica.pt (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA27124 for ; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 05:26:55 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010217052634.007f7360@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 05:26:34 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: Ceramic insulators In-reply-to: <000201c0985b$b8b6af80$d3337ad5@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: You are a gentleman Alan, publish your address and you should have a flood of cheques as a deposit to secure purchase. Mine is already written for ten off. 73, Brian At 14:28 16/02/01 -0000, you wrote: >Hi all, there seems to be a regular search for insulators capable of >handling the higher voltages generated at LF (Or maybe we are the only >amateurs actually 'making' aerials ) 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18238 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 23:31:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 23:31:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 3413 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 23:31:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 23:31:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14TuFp-0003IP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 23:25:33 +0000 Received: from tomts7.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.40] helo=tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14TuFm-0003IK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 23:25:30 +0000 Received: from server1 ([209.226.189.183]) by tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010216232444.LOER4700.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:24:44 -0500 Message-ID: <001b01c0986f$5b6b62d0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000201c0985b$b8b6af80$d3337ad5@default> Subject: LF: VA3LK back on for two days transmitting Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 18:22:36 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings All: Repairs to the antenna are complete and the amps are going into the right place and the signal is being received in the village at the right level. I hope this experience is now finished work Hi. 137.7894 90 and 180 second bits Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3208 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 22:16:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 22:16:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 16249 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 22:16:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 22:16:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Tt4G-0002rq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 22:09:32 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.40.144]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Tt4F-0002rl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 22:09:31 +0000 Received: from ieee.org (client-151-200-111-184.bellatlantic.net [151.200.111.184]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id RAA00572; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:09:28 -0500 (EST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A8DA5C3.3B3B77E4@ieee.org> Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:12:20 -0500 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: The AMRAD LF Field Day Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net id RAA00572 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: AMRAD went out in mid-January to have an LF field day. For details see . I sure wish the propagation was up to what we have seen the past two weeks. We would have probably copied the European stations. Oh well....we had fun and learned some good things. 73 from Frank Gentges KØBRA fgentges@mindspring.com Andre' Kesteloot N4ICK andre.kesteloot@ieee.org From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4878 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 21:11:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 21:11:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 20231 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 21:11:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 21:11:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Ts3x-0002Vj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 21:05:09 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Ts3w-0002Ve-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 21:05:08 +0000 Received: from [213.122.51.211] (helo=default) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14Ts3f-0005Rl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 21:04:52 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c0985b$b8b6af80$d3337ad5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Ceramic insulators Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:28:45 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, there seems to be a regular search for insulators capable of handling the higher voltages generated at LF (Or maybe we are the only amateurs actually 'making' aerials ) At a recent Rally I came across a local trader with some brand new brown-glazed ceramic 'rod' insulators for wire aerials at 25p each. (I bought 8) They are about 10.5cms long and 1.7cms diameter, with a leakage path of about 6.5cms (between the holes). Possibly a little small for the Kilowatters, but at least they wont catch fire. Knowing the location of the trader and the source of some of his stock I suspect these may be 'marine' in origin. Although he only had a small quantity on show, it is possible he has many more available. If there is any interest I will try and contact him, about mail order supply. His phone is ex-directory so this may take a little while. If he has more I am willing to take orders and ship them from here, as I dont think he is really into mail order. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2535 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 20:49:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 20:49:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 29191 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 20:49:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 20:49:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14TrjO-0002Jy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 20:43:54 +0000 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14TrjM-0002Jq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 20:43:53 +0000 Received: from steve (ppp173.dyn154.pacific.net.au [210.23.154.173]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA05929 for ; Sat, 17 Feb 2001 07:43:32 +1100 Message-ID: <006801c09859$bb9cca60$0301a8c0@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <7dpkiAAh5Oj6MwfJ@telemetry.demon.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: First Transatlantic QSO Date: Sat, 17 Feb 2001 07:47:40 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G'day All, While I agree with the sentiments expressed about big KEVs reaction to the excellent news about the exchange of information across the Atlantic, I feel that a bit of understanding and sympathy are in order. I think I can draw some understanding from my own behaviour and reactions. Those who have spent the time reading my posts will have noticed the odd "dummy-spit" from me from time to time. Because of the nature I was born with there have been some things which have set me off - some things brought about by circumstances, some by other peoples actions. For example, those who have accessed my web site over the years have seen that I have flitted from Pulsars to LF, to Laser Comms, to Infrasonics, to VLF and now back to LF. All being centred around one theme - narrowband DSP. During the LF phase I came up with a method of speeding up CW (VFSKCW). It was soundcard based and I observed in those days of OOK that it was not going to be attractive, so I put it in the bottom drawer. Sometime later Rick came along and came up with a much more practical solution DFCW which we all know has had great success. Imagine my chagrin at that that!!!! Not at Rick, but at me !!! I was kicking myself, but because I had the code already written it only took a couple of hours to build a GUI interface around it and VFSKCW was the result. I get some small satisfaction from a small numbers of users though - it is even used for aircraft scatter on 2m !!! Based on my time in the Pulsar phase (my XYL tells me I am a constant phase-shifter :-), I was struck by the fact that each Pulsar had its own signature - they rotate and pulse at a extremely highly stable rate (except for glitches they are more accurate than atomic clocks). At that stage I started thinking about AFK (absolute frequency keying) where each character is assigned a frequency which distinguishes from another (just like a pulsar). This was quite successful in the experiments I had done, but I could see it was impractical for communication with others because of the accuracy/stability required. This led to FDK (frequency difference keying) where each character was encoded as the difference between two tones. Although this ameliorated some of the accuracy problems it still was not going to work with the quality of the receivers commonly used at that time. At that point I did a dummy spit and went into the Laser Comms phase. By its very nature the frequency accuracy problem was much easier as the Laser modulation is done at baseband. Unfortunately, in that area the gurus gave all the reasons why any "one-bit per character" system was not going to work and so while I was pushing AFK and FDK (explanations were up on my web site) at that time, that went nowhere. Unfortunately, if the resident gurus give it the thumbs down it can result in a particular approach being ignored. Imagine my chagrin when it was recently brought to my attention that the same guru had presented a "new" way of weak signal modulation called PGP-1 (PGP are his initials !!!) which, you guessed it, used assigned frequencies for each character. When challenged about this, he denied ever having seen anything from me. When confronted with emails that he sent in reply to my putting forward AFK and FDK, he said that he didn't understand it at the time. However, he did understand it enough to pronounce that it wouldn't work back then (end of 1999)!!! Another dummy-spit from me saw me engage in a "discussion" with that individual via the Laser reflector. I am now back in the LF area with FDK after a brief detour into VLF with AFK, because I can see that the quality of the receivers commonly used are at a level which would allow FDK to be used. This is evidenced by the spreading (finally) of the use of narrowband software (like Alberto's excellent Argo) for QRSSSS reception. Who knows, we might reach the accuracy/stability one day to use the AFK method on LF. I expect if anyone comes up a "new" way of encoding characters in a long burst of a single tone frequency or the difference between two tones I will do another dummy-spit (and a big one !!!). I wouldn't be able to stop myself :-) But I digress - the point of all this is that we all have a tendency to dummy-spit at something (politicians, road-users, using QRSS in CW allocations, expecting credit for ideas, being excluded from ham bands by a fine motor skill test) and sometimes some of us don't have the energy to be calm and reasonable. Take big Kev for instance. Here is a bloke who has constantly told us all how we should conduct ourselves on the LF bands - that QRSS is the devils tool for desecration of the LF bands (only sinners - sorry - lazy, incompetent people use it) etc. He has not only *painted* himself into a corner - he has constructed a double-brick re-inforced wall which confines him to that corner. After a period of sweetness and light where there was an attempt to woo transatlantic participants by the sight of his big antennas and his fast moving hands, there is a return to darker days after being spurned by the objects of his attention. What's a bloke to do ? A big DUMMY-SPIT of course. So a bit of understanding is needed. After all - even with my dummy-spitting nature, my XYL regularly tells me she loves me and is glad she married me (silly woman!!). So I am sure that big KEV is regarded with great affection by at least someone like we all are. Let he who has never dummy-spitted cast the first stone. 73s Steve Olney (VK2ZTO/AXSO - QF56IK : Lat -33 34 07, Long +150 44 40) ============================================= HomePage URLs: http://www.qsl.net/vk2zto http://www.zeta.org.au/~ollaneg Containing:- ULF, ELF, VLF & LF Experimentation InfraSonic Experimentation Laser Comms DX Amateur Radio Astronomy ============================================= From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27856 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 20:17:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 20:17:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 10334 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 20:17:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 20:17:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14TrEG-000294-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 20:11:44 +0000 Received: from smtp.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.193.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14TrEF-00028z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 20:11:43 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from default (p0962.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.202.199]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA19305 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 21:11:25 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <200102162011.VAA19305@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 21:9:26 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Machine copied X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all If one copies cw by ear, but also has a pacemaker, dentals and a stainless steel forehead, is it valid or does it count for machine or even bionic copy ? 73 and have a good weekend all, Ko Versteeg, NL9222. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13506 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 19:37:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 19:37:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 13884 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 19:37:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 19:37:26 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14TqcW-0001ua-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 19:32:44 +0000 Received: from imo-r16.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.70]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14TqcV-0001uS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 19:32:43 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-r16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.88.27fd182 (17526) for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:31:50 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <88.27fd182.27beda26@aol.com> Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:31:50 EST Subject: Re: LF: Re: IK5ZPV ? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 2/16/01 12:25:22 PM Eastern Standard Time, dibene@usa.net writes: << Hi Rik, this message of yours was dated January 16th... look below. Either you have the wrong date set up on your PC, or your ISP seems not to be providing the best service it could... >> Alberto, considering how visionary the QRSS concept has turned out to be, do you suppose Rik is a man slightly ahead of his time? :-) 73, John From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20463 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 19:35:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 19:35:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 6796 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 19:35:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 19:35:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14TqZm-0001qC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 19:29:54 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [194.200.20.13] (helo=mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14TqZl-0001q7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 19:29:54 +0000 Received: from userbu31.netscapeonline.co.uk ([62.125.146.14] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 14TqVH-0006xg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 19:25:15 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A8D581B.538347AE@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:40:59 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: First Transatlantic QSO References: <7dpkiAAh5Oj6MwfJ@telemetry.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Tom Boucher wrote: > G3KEV > > Just to show that you are NOT a sad old. I am probably younger than you !!!!!!!! I think you were a late starter. > twit with a very large chip on > your shoulder, why don't you offer your unreserved congratulations to > those who, unlike yourself, have the operating skill The slow morse and Wobble mode used is computer/machine generated and received on a monitor screen and recorded. The operator goes to sleep and comes back later to see if there is a result. > and technical Using ex commercial Decca transmitters only needs a Novice. > The present approach to an atlantic qso needs virtually no Technical or > Operating skills. The modes used are generated and received by a computer or other machine and only needs an operator(monkey man) to switch it on or off. Credit should go to those that are using equipment constructed by themselves, transmitters, converters, and efficient antennas and the ability to send/receive manual morse code at a speed of 20 wpm plus. For any radio amateur with a class A licence that cannot fulfill the above requirements is an appliance operator. I hope these observations satisfy your concerns, but try and keep cool, to avoid premature expiry. > > ability to achieve a trans Atlantic QSO on LF? > > 73 to all, Tom G3OLB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20029 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 19:34:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 19:34:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 5943 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 19:34:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 19:34:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Tqa9-0001qg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 19:30:17 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [194.200.20.13] (helo=mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #2) id 14Tqa8-0001qb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 19:30:16 +0000 Received: from userbu31.netscapeonline.co.uk ([62.125.146.14] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 14TqVU-0006xs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 19:25:29 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A8D7B40.FD317DB1@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 19:10:56 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: 73 khz Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: For those suitably equipped on 73 khz with a better than average antenna and able to generate 1w erp there is a possibility that they might be seen on slow cw or wobble mode across in W/VE. Long before a transatlantic qso took place on 160 metres between radio amateurs, marine operators were working this route on 500 khz with very modest levels of RF output. Some /mm have worked and been heard operating from European waters into South America. With this history it would not be unusual on 136 khz to do the same thing given a proper antenna for the job and reasonable power. The same applies to 73 khz, but one has to think beyond the modified G5RV and a converted Decca tx. Perhaps 5w erp would be more realistic and a good rural noise free qth. At these frequencies the small back garden is a non starter and that is also the problem on 136 khz presently. The only suitable installations at present capable of making repeatable qso's are MM0ALM, OK1FIG from his commercial tower and G0MRF from his high rise block, the rest with some luck will be one off jobs and that will need a TAIL WIND. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6873 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 17:29:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 17:29:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 8193 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 17:29:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 17:29:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14ToYL-0000rP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:20:17 +0000 Received: from public1.thorcom.com ([212.172.148.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14ToYC-0000nc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:20:08 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.1]) by public1.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 14ToFi-0001xC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:01:02 +0000 Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by d06lmsgate.uk.ibm.COM (1.0.0) with ESMTP id QAA150792 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:38:52 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usa.net (ss1.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.66]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id QAA220446 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 16:54:26 GMT Message-ID: <3A8D5B1C.F94011C@usa.net> Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:53:48 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: IK5ZPV ? References: <3.0.1.16.20010116110952.2c9fb018@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik Strobbe wrote: > Hi Rich, > > Just a wild guess : > Could the "DV-AQ" sequence have been G3AQ, where G was corrupted to D and > V- was 3 ? > Don't know if Laurie (G3AQC) was on yesyerday. > > 73, Rik ON7YD > Hi Rik, this message of yours was dated January 16th... look below. Either you have the wrong date set up on your PC, or your ISP seems not to be providing the best service it could... 73 Alberto 2PHD ------------------------------ Subject: Re: LF: IK5ZPV ? Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 11:09:52 From: Rik Strobbe Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11930 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 17:29:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 17:29:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 7373 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 17:29:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 17:29:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14ToYH-0000r9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:20:13 +0000 Received: from public1.thorcom.com ([212.172.148.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14ToYC-0000nc-01 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:20:08 +0000 Received: from tomts7.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.40] helo=tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net) by public1.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 14ToFQ-0001xB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 17:00:44 +0000 Received: from server1 ([209.226.189.80]) by tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010216165426.GLFO4700.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:54:26 -0500 Message-ID: <010501c09838$d56db060$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <25801.200102161450@gemini> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Insulator problems Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:42:16 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jim: > The corona rings I am using look something like the attached drawing. Thank You very much. Same basic idea. Excellent. I have been using as insulators for years the very heavy dense plastic tubing (in small pieces a few inches long) as used by the gas company for distributing natural gas. The Decca happily chews through that stuff like it was a hot knife through butter. Thanks and I will try that when we pull things back in line later this afternoon. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25297 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 14:58:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 14:58:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 1365 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 14:58:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 14:58:26 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TmDc-00003w-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:50:44 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TmDX-00003r-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:50:40 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14TmDI-0001Ek-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:50:24 +0000 Message-ID: <25801.200102161450@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 14:51:22 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------000000070102080200090700" Subject: LF: Re: Insulator problems In-reply-to: <005501c09817$f2644060$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000000070102080200090700 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit The following section of this message contains a file attachment prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format. If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any another MIME-compliant system, you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer. If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance. ---- File information ----------- File: insulator.jpg Date: 16 Feb 2001, 14:26 Size: 14960 bytes. Type: JPEG-image --------------000000070102080200090700 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=windows-1252; name="Mail message body.txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Mail message body.txt" 0100,0100,0100Dear Larry an LF group, >I am unable to visualize your wire loop concept.....0100,0100,0100 The corona rings I am using look something like the attached drawing. The idea came from high voltage power lines, which often have something similar. Although I am using PA0SE's ceramic insulators for stand-offs, I use little 100mm long plastic insulators for the main span of the wire, because they are lighter and reduce sag. They seem to withstand an estimated 22kV without problems now the corona rings are fitted. 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Feb 2001 13:25:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TkmP-00086T-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 13:18:33 +0000 Received: from tomts8.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.52] helo=tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TkmN-00086O-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 13:18:32 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.209.138.103]) by tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010216131740.DSG11345.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 08:17:40 -0500 Message-ID: <007301c0981a$8cb5cbf0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000d01c09803$a1e46e80$2d9b883e@lvm> Subject: LF: Insulators for probe antenna Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 08:15:29 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: New Subject Greetings All: I am preparing to have three separate LF antennas at my permanent home for the next LF season. One antenna I want to try is a short probe antenna, a 5 ft piece of copper pipe. The impedance needed is in the multi megohms, currently I am using a large sheet (30 cm square) of clear plastic known commercially as LEXAN by General Electric. My sense is that I might do better, the issue is what would be better as an insulator for mounting the pipe on? I have available locally, and very expensive, some ceramic standoff insulators with metal fixtures at both ends. These are designed for service inside older equipment and may not work well outside in the open air. Some discussion on the issues around insulator design for highest working impedance in this service will be greatly appreciated. The copper pipe is connected virtually directly to the Gate of a FET. Yes, I use a ceramic socket for the FET and I buy the FET's very cheap and in large quantities as lightning fuses even with high speed diode protection devices hi. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14761 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 13:12:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 13:12:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 4758 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 13:12:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 13:12:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TkUI-0007wK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:59:50 +0000 Received: from tomts7.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.40] helo=tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TkUH-0007wE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:59:49 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.209.138.103]) by tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010216125902.DFUV4700.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 07:59:02 -0500 Message-ID: <005501c09817$f2644060$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <21031.200102151453@gemini> <001e01c097f9$e3ddf900$83ce28c3@ericadodd> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Insulator problems Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 07:56:52 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jim and Peter: > I use PA0SE dog bone insulators, which are excellent for QRO using small > antennas. The insulators were fixed to supports using 2mm nylon cord. > Twice now the antenna has come down because of a failure in the nylon cord. > At the point of the break there is no indication of any burning but the ends > of the nylon cord, where the break occurred, are hard rather than frayed. First Jim, I am a bit thick I am unable to visualize your wire loop concept. When I used, 40+ years ago, high power on 3.7 MHz AM mobile, I had corona problems that were mitigated by welding a copper penny on the end of the whip. Are you suggesting to just hang a wire loop at the end of a point in the wire to perform a similar disipation function? Peter, my situation here is the same with a variation. I use yellow polypropelene (sic?) rope, it rots in the sun fairly fast but usually my antennas change far more often than the rope fails hi, and I found not only a "welded end" but I also found considerable stretching due to heat in the last foot or so to the insulator. One kind soul offered that the insulator fractured because of the effects of small shot from a shotgun shell but the insulator failed in long shards (as glass has been known to do) rather than the powder associated with the effect of a projectile. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17353 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 12:51:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 12:51:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 18535 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 12:51:27 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 12:51:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TkGy-0007r8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:46:04 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ns1.swh.sk ([192.108.125.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TkGv-0007r3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:46:02 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes [139.24.136.129]) by ns1.swh.sk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id NAA00949 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 13:45:44 +0100 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id NAA22479 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 13:45:41 +0100 (MET) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 13:45:38 +0100 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E022585E3@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: Sked... Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 13:45:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi LF-ers... I'll be very active this weekend on 136, I'll be home alone, so you can imagine...If you want a sked with me, please let me know. Send me a message to my office E-mail (mailto:richard.gasparik@sbs.sk) or home (mailto:om2tw@nextra.sk). Enjoy LF... 73 de Rich OM2TW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11689 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 12:00:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 12:00:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 21507 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 12:00:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 12:00:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TjRa-0007Zx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:52:58 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TjRX-0007Zs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:52:55 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id LAA07523; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:54:38 GMT Received: (qmail 30560 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 12:45:16 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 12:45:16 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id MAA11011; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:34:42 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma010856; Fri, 16 Feb 01 12:33:55 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:56:07 +0000 Received: by frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id <18PLN2XR>; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:51:48 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D75B9@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: IK5ZPV ? Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:51:49 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I'd left the receiver running to catch IK5ZPV but hadn't optimised the gain setting and it got clobbered by Laurie's signal 20 Hz away. There was something on the right freqeuncy, but a +70dB signal level in the filter passband ......... Incidently Laurie, I can see 50Hz sidebands on you transmission - a long way down but there nevetheless. Mine are even worse though ! With a direct from mains supply, 20V ripple on a 330V supply is approx -30dB per sideband and yours are a lot better than that. Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: Ko Versteeg [mailto:nl9222@wanadoo.nl] > Sent: 2001-02-16 00:00 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: IK5ZPV ? > > > At 2/16/01 10:45:00, you wrote: > >Hi LF-ers... > > > > Yesterday I received an very slow CW spectrogram on the > frequency > >135.920 +-. Starting 1930Z the text was "-ALKDV-AQ" ( - is > to long for dot, > >to short for dash, something between). It has been transmited for 90 > >minutes. It was IK5ZPV's transmition or any other signal ? > > > >Rich OM2TW > > > > > > > He promised to be on yesterday to transmit "ZPV" > > > 73's Ko Versteeg [NL9222/SWL - JO22KF : Lat. 52° 12 15.0N, > Lon. 04° 51 40.5E] > > http://home.wanadoo.nl/nl9222/index.htm > http://leden.tref.nl/~nl9222tv/default.htm > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution,o r any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11563 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 11:11:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 11:11:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 12743 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 11:11:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 11:11:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TidS-0007Ft-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:01:10 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.193.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TidR-0007Fo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:01:09 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from default (p100.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.200.64]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA05274 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:00:52 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <200102161100.MAA05274@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 12:1:10 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: IK5ZPV ? X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by smtp.wanadoo.nl id MAA05274 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 2/16/01 10:45:00, you wrote: >Hi LF-ers... > > Yesterday I received an very slow CW spectrogram on the frequency >135.920 +-. Starting 1930Z the text was "-ALKDV-AQ" ( - is to long for dot, >to short for dash, something between). It has been transmited for 90 >minutes. It was IK5ZPV's transmition or any other signal ? > >Rich OM2TW > > > He promised to be on yesterday to transmit "ZPV" 73's Ko Versteeg [NL9222/SWL - JO22KF : Lat. 520 12 15.0N, Lon. 040 51 40.5E] http://home.wanadoo.nl/nl9222/index.htm http://leden.tref.nl/~nl9222tv/default.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8515 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 10:45:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 10:45:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 1601 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 10:45:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 10:45:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Ti7P-00073i-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 10:28:03 +0000 Received: from mail12.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.215]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Ti7L-00073b-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 10:27:59 +0000 Received: from modem-45.dimrill.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.155.45] helo=lvm) by mail12.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14Ti73-00039p-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 10:27:42 +0000 Message-ID: <000d01c09803$a1e46e80$2d9b883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: IK5ZPV ? Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 10:31:32 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Yes I was on, looks like my message. Laurie. -----Original Message----- From: Rik Strobbe To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 16 February 2001 10:23 Subject: Re: LF: IK5ZPV ? >Hi Rich, > >Just a wild guess : >Could the "DV-AQ" sequence have been G3AQ, where G was corrupted to D and >V- was 3 ? >Don't know if Laurie (G3AQC) was on yesyerday. > >73, Rik ON7YD > >At 10:45 16/02/01 +0100, you wrote: >>Hi LF-ers... >> >> Yesterday I received an very slow CW spectrogram on the frequency >>135.920 +-. Starting 1930Z the text was "-ALKDV-AQ" ( - is to long for dot, >>to short for dash, something between). It has been transmited for 90 >>minutes. It was IK5ZPV's transmition or any other signal ? >> >>Rich OM2TW >> >> > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11579 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 10:22:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 10:22:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 2052 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 10:22:12 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 10:22:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Thrz-0006xW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 10:12:07 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from public2.thorcom.com ([212.172.148.20] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Thry-0006xR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 10:12:06 +0000 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by public2.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 14Tgkg-0005fB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:00:31 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA47016 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 11:09:51 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010116110952.2c9fb018@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 11:09:52 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: IK5ZPV ? In-reply-to: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E022585E1@btss103a.swh.sk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Rich, Just a wild guess : Could the "DV-AQ" sequence have been G3AQ, where G was corrupted to D and V- was 3 ? Don't know if Laurie (G3AQC) was on yesyerday. 73, Rik ON7YD At 10:45 16/02/01 +0100, you wrote: >Hi LF-ers... > > Yesterday I received an very slow CW spectrogram on the frequency >135.920 +-. Starting 1930Z the text was "-ALKDV-AQ" ( - is to long for dot, >to short for dash, something between). It has been transmited for 90 >minutes. It was IK5ZPV's transmition or any other signal ? > >Rich OM2TW > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7624 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 10:17:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 10:17:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 24931 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 10:17:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 10:17:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14ThnE-0006wk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 10:07:12 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from gigi.excite.com ([199.172.152.110]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14ThnA-0006wb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 10:07:09 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from chilly.excite.com ([199.172.153.77]) by gigi.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010216100620.FBLH27531.gigi.excite.com@chilly.excite.com> for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 02:06:20 -0800 Message-ID: <2627411.982317979998.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 02:06:16 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Mysterious double lines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 213.104.152.105 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks for looking, Mike. 73, John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5720 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 10:15:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 10:15:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 22405 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 10:15:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 10:15:47 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14ThlE-0006wR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 10:05:08 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ewey-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.191] helo=ewey.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14ThlC-0006wM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 10:05:06 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from chilly.excite.com ([199.172.153.77]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010216100440.WAVP25056.ewey.excite.com@chilly.excite.com> for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 02:04:40 -0800 Message-ID: <12038154.982317880340.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 02:04:26 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: IK5ZPV ? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 213.104.152.105 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Gasparik, This looks to me like VA3LK AQC, i.e. G3AQC calling VA3LK. 73, John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11588 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 09:56:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 09:56:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 20929 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 09:56:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 09:56:39 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14ThWW-0006pM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:49:56 +0000 Received: from fm215.facility.pipex.com ([194.131.104.225]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14ThWS-0006pE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:49:52 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (199.235.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.235.199]) by fm215.facility.pipex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA13213 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:44:32 GMT Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010216094536.00a6b180@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:48:20 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: The GII3KEV Award MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Mal,

Since you're the fount of all knowledge on what constitutes a proper LF QSO why don't you offer an award of your own?  Transatlantic has been pre-empted so it would have to be for the BIG one - Europe or USA to Australia/NZ.  With proper conditions like :

1.      Only Morse at 25 wpm to be used.
2.      Transmitters and antennas to be designed and built solely by the operator himself.  Any outside help like using ready-mix concrete for the mast footings to cause instant disqualification.
3.      The use of anything involving digits or computers totally barred. To include receivers with digital readouts.
4.      Full information exchange must include what the weather's like; what the kids have been up to; the incompetency and idiocy of practically all other amateurs; etc, etc. The usual stuff.
5.      No time limit on length of QSO; in fact, extra marks if it goes on for several hours.

Of course, you'd have to offer a decent prize. Say, £10,000 for a minimum one-minute contact rising to £100,000 for one lasting several hours. Come to think of it, you could make that £1,000,000 - it would be safe enough.

Unfortunately you would be debarred from winning your own award but that's life.

Walter gg3jkv  (when DID the RA authorise these double-letter callsigns?)

  From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7058 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 09:52:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 09:52:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 11091 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 09:52:30 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 09:52:30 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14ThSh-0006lA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:45:59 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ns1.swh.sk ([192.108.125.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14ThSg-0006l5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:45:58 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes [139.24.136.129]) by ns1.swh.sk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA24942 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 10:45:36 +0100 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id KAA07007 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 10:45:34 +0100 (MET) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 10:45:31 +0100 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E022585E1@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group \(E-mail\)" Subject: LF: IK5ZPV ? Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 10:45:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi LF-ers... Yesterday I received an very slow CW spectrogram on the frequency 135.920 +-. Starting 1930Z the text was "-ALKDV-AQ" ( - is to long for dot, to short for dash, something between). It has been transmited for 90 minutes. It was IK5ZPV's transmition or any other signal ? Rich OM2TW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27198 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 09:43:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 09:43:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 23991 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 09:43:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 09:43:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14ThKX-0006k1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:37:33 +0000 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14ThKW-0006jq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:37:32 +0000 Received: from mcalevey ([210.54.196.14]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010216093714.SKOS779398.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@mcalevey> for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 22:37:14 +1300 Message-ID: <000f01c097fb$b2a4bca0$0ec436d2@mcalevey> From: "mcalevey" To: "rsgb" References: <3255276.982232868671.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Subject: LF: Re: Mysterious double lines Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 22:34:07 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John So far I have seen no trace of those lines in the south of ZL. Mike ZL4OL From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4331 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 09:24:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 09:24:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 13311 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 09:24:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 09:24:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Th2Q-0006eR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:18:50 +0000 Received: from chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Th2P-0006eM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:18:49 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-1-131.easynet.co.uk [195.40.206.131]) by chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 842D2F84A3 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:18:32 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <001e01c097f9$e3ddf900$83ce28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <21031.200102151453@gemini> Subject: LF: Re: Insulator problems Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:20:47 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz said: > I notice a few people have been having problems with insulators > melting/cracking lately. I had problems with my insulators until I > fitted some corona rings. ..... I haven't had problems with corona at insulators although corona did occur from a poorly finished antenna connection. But I did have another problem. I use PA0SE dog bone insulators, which are excellent for QRO using small antennas. The insulators were fixed to supports using 2mm nylon cord. Twice now the antenna has come down because of a failure in the nylon cord. At the point of the break there is no indication of any burning but the ends of the nylon cord, where the break occurred, are hard rather than frayed. This seems to me as though heat was involved in the failure. It only seems to occur where the length of cord is short. Nylon cord is used to support the antenna at the far end (by the house) but this 4mm nylon cord has not given trouble in years of operation. Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22349 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 09:11:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 09:11:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 12905 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 09:10:57 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 09:10:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TgqD-0006ZX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:06:13 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TgqC-0006ZS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:06:12 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA159356 for ; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 10:05:52 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010116100553.2c9f55ca@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 16 Jan 2001 10:05:53 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re. LF LDO>ZJ References: <000101c09751$4b554b00$f0b6883e@lvm> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: First off all I would like to congratulate G3LDO, VE1ZJ and VE1ZZ for their ahievement. Regardless wether some critics accept this as a 2-way QSO or not, it is a milestone as it has proven that a 2-way QSO is possible. About the "Peter Bobek Award" : From 1997 on, when my interest in LF started, I was furtunate to have regular e-mail contact with Peter who gave me a lot of advice. I believe that he was one of the first that understood the possibilities extreme narrowband modes on 136kHz, at a time that there was much opposition that such kind of contacts would ever be accepted are valuable QSO's. Today QRSS is accepted by (almost) everybody in the LF community, but maybe it wouldn't have been so if Peter hadn't set one of the first steps with his QRSS transmission from DA0LF. In one of his mails to me he mentioned that circumstances on 136kHz are so different from the other ham bands that we will need all the creativity we have if we want to cover greater and greater distances. In one of his last mails he stated that we might have to prove that we can make real DX (= intercontinental) contacts to be taken serious my the HF community, a QSO between Europe and North-America was his dream. Even if the performance of G3LDO, VE1ZJ and VE1ZZ is not a 2-way contact in the strict sense it has brought us a step closer to the aim of the "Peter Bobek Award" and the least that can be said it that these 3 hams used their creativity to overcome the "missing RX" problem at the Canadian side. So even if the Award Committee does not recognize this as the first 2-way QSO it is my opinion that this fine achievement should be rewarded in some way. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4589 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 09:00:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 09:00:18 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 19435 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 09:00:19 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 09:00:19 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Tgex-0006TV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 08:54:35 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Tgew-0006TN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 08:54:34 +0000 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14Tgef-00099m-0A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 08:54:18 +0000 Message-ID: <7dpkiAAh5Oj6MwfJ@telemetry.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 09:09:53 +0000 To: "RSGB LF Group" From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: LF: First Transatlantic QSO MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3KEV Just to show that you are NOT a sad old twit with a very large chip on your shoulder, why don't you offer your unreserved congratulations to those who, unlike yourself, have the operating skill and technical ability to achieve a trans Atlantic QSO on LF? 73 to all, Tom G3OLB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2979 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 07:43:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 07:43:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 11807 invoked from network); 16 Feb 2001 07:43:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 16 Feb 2001 07:43:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TfO0-00065r-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 07:33:00 +0000 Received: from ds-img-5.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.138] helo=spdmgaae.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TfNw-00064S-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 07:32:57 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id CAA07523 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 16 Feb 2001 02:32:09 -0500 (EST) Date: Fri, 16 Feb 2001 02:31:38 -0500 From: "Holger 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: Re: LF: Re. LF LDO>ZJ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF-Group, just reading Mal's comments with a smile on my face ... >Stick to the established rules that apply to all other amateur band qso's. >Another factor to consider. To claim awards like dxcc etc each qso must be made >from the same qth, you cannot suddenly go to another qth some miles away and >continue. ... being active on the HF bands for almost 30 years now, I know how many of those "net-driven" dx-QSOs came int to the log of a lot of people "... ok ... 5/9 ... good contact ... next ..." ... god only knows how many DXCC awards have been worked that way, not only with three people involved, but an entire group including "net-control" to make them happen ... ;) Anyhow, the only "real" amateur-like award I personally recognize is the Rag Chewer's Club (RCC): have a QSO of at least half an hour with another RCC member ... *that's* real ham radio (and so relaxing to achieve in QRSS ...). Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9209 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 19:26:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 19:26:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 13369 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 19:26:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 19:26:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TTt9-0002MV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 19:16:23 +0000 Received: from smtp.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.193.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TTt8-0002MQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 19:16:22 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from default (p1088.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.203.69]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA10421 for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 20:16:05 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <200102151916.UAA10421@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 20:16:23 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: AR5000 / FT-847 X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 2/15/01 10:48:00, you wrote: >Hi Ko, well AOR claim that the 7030 receives down to 0Hz !!! What they dont >say is that the sensitivity starts to decline markedly below 25kHz.. I >suspect the 5000 is intended as a wide coverage receiver and may not be >optimum on the lower frequencies. > >Cheers de Alan G3NYK >Alan.Melia@btinternet.com Hi Alan.. Yes i thought it was too much and too wide (too expensive) to perform that low with not even one visible Hf control. I will suffer on some more with my old box and wait for something that might be transmitting aswell ;-) 73 de Ko, NL9222 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10807 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 18:48:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 18:48:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 12180 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 18:47:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 18:47:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TTIk-00027H-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 18:38:46 +0000 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TTIi-00027C-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 18:38:44 +0000 Received: from [213.1.150.171] (helo=default) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14TTIR-000380-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 18:38:27 +0000 Message-ID: <000b01c0977e$1ea558c0$ab9601d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: AR5000 / FT-847 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:48:59 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Ko, well AOR claim that the 7030 receives down to 0Hz !!! What they dont say is that the sensitivity starts to decline markedly below 25kHz.. I suspect the 5000 is intended as a wide coverage receiver and may not be optimum on the lower frequencies. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com -----Original Message----- From: Ko Versteeg To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 14 February 2001 13:13 Subject: LF: AR5000 / FT-847 > Group.. >Does anyone use, or has used a Yaesu FT847 or the AOR AR-5000 on 136Khz? >There's info allover the internet but can't find a user or his findings on these rigs. > >I noticed the AR-5000 does not have many hf controls, no PBS or BWC etc >but they claim it receives down to 10Hz (Sure) > >73 Ko, NL9222. > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17336 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 18:30:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 18:30:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 28760 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 18:30:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 18:30:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TT5L-00022D-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 18:24:55 +0000 Received: from mta06-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.46]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TT5K-000228-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 18:24:54 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.101.107]) by mta06-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010215182435.DSXO285.mta06-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 18:24:35 +0000 Message-ID: <006301c0977c$80cc85c0$6b6568d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200102130721_MC2-C554-727E@compuserve.com> Subject: LF: Re: LF Chat Room Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 18:24:11 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike, G3XDV, wrote: >Having a really >good way to get real-time feedback would be useful - perhaps a chat >room? DK8KW wrote: .. again as a reminder: you are all invited to use the LF chat room that is on my homepage at http://www.qru.de/chat.htm ============= I have checked this out and it works really well. My Internet connection is free 24 hours a day (from my cable TV/telephone company NTL), though it times out every two hours, or if I don't use it for 5 minutes. I will log on to this chat room in the next few days and see who appears. Mike, G3XDV -------------------- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20049 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 18:18:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 18:18:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 1308 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 18:18:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 18:18:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TSty-0001wV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 18:13:10 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [194.200.20.13] (helo=mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TStx-0001wQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 18:13:09 +0000 Received: from userak56.netscapeonline.co.uk ([62.125.132.31] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 14TSpU-0006vx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 18:08:33 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A8C0C4C.C516733E@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 17:05:16 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re. LF LDO>ZJ Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: LAWRENCE MAYHEAD wrote: > I personally dont think that there can be much doubt that this was a > QSO,between LDO and ZJ, with ZJ having a remote Tx at ZZs location. If there > had been a 250 mile(dist. ZZ to ZJ I belive) switch line between them, when > John identified Peters message he would have pushed the transmit button! to > reply. Since he did not have this land line he simply asked ZZ to push the > button via an 80 m link,a pretty fine distinction in my opinion.What do you > think ? 73s Laurie. With 3 operators involved in the qso regardless of the circumstances it is not a valid two way qso. Three different qth's!!!!!!!! How desperate can one get to suggest that this counts as a valid qso. Stick to the established rules that apply to all other amateur band qso's. Another factor to consider. To claim awards like dxcc etc each qso must be made from the same qth, you cannot suddenly go to another qth some miles away and continue. Except the rules have changed you cannot make say 50 qso's from the home qth and then go to a friends house a few hundred miles away and make another 50 qso's then claim the award. The point being that with the qso being discussed at the VE end two different qth's were being used and that is not valid. For a genuine valid qso each end would have to be at the same qth for transmit and receive, and certainly not involve a third operator/qth. I am always amused by what some suggest on this list when dealing with LF and wonder what is coming next!!!!!!!!!! Making up rules as they go along and chancing their arm. Do the honourable thing and aim for a proper qso. A half cooked qso would command NO respect amongst the rest of the radio amateur community. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29826 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 18:16:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 18:16:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 26785 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 18:16:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 18:16:28 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TSrl-0001vw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 18:10:53 +0000 Received: from imo-r12.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.66]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TSrj-0001vm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 18:10:51 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-r12.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.f6.75d7182 (4332) for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:09:52 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:09:50 EST Subject: Re: LF: Re. LF LDO>ZJ In a message dated 2/15/01 1:04:02 PM Eastern Standard Time, DK8KW@compuserve.com writes: << I definetely believe that late Peter Bobek, DJ8WL would have loved that pioneering achievement and would have recognized it as what it is: a great way on how to perform one of the silliest challenges ham-radio can have (it is even difficult to explain this to non-LF hams), passing information over the Atlantic using LF. >> Well phrased, Geri. Alas, it seems difficult to explain it to LF hams as well. :-) John From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19247 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 18:08:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 18:08:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 3627 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 18:08:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 18:08:08 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TSjk-0001uF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 18:02:36 +0000 Received: from imo-r09.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TSji-0001u8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 18:02:35 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-r09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.f7.75989ff (4332) for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:01:39 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:01:39 EST Subject: Re: LF: lf transatlantic exchange of information To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 2/15/01 11:31:59 AM Eastern Standard Time, gii3kev@netscapeonline.co.uk writes: << They must be desperate for some sort of recognition even to the extent of bending the rules as they go along. >> Odd. I must have missed something. I don't recall the parties involved asking for awards or prizes, so what "rules" are getting bent? Seems to me a much easier way to gain recognition is to disparage others and impugn their motives time and again on an e-mail reflector. I hate to give that kind of recognition by responding at all, and shall generally refrain from doing so in future, but this behavior makes a mockery of free speech. << Involving a third party in a qso is certainly not valid regardless of the circumstances. >> While I would agree that the spirit of the Bobek Award is ultimately to reward a QSO in which two stations communicate directly with each other, both of them transmitting and receiving on LF, the statement "regardless of the circumstances" is an incredible over-generalization. Third parties in QSOs are commonplace in the real world, as is having to relay for benefit of parties who don't have the ability to receive each other directly. While not a simple, unembellished two-way exchange, the UK-Canadian QSO in question is an honourable achievement. All winter long, amateurs on both sides of the Atlantic have been able to view each others' signals, but until now, no one had demonstrated that the path would remain open in both directions long enough for a proper exchange to take place. This has now been done. The next step is to get the necessary receive and transmit capability in the same place on this side of the pond, and do it "for keeps." << Can anyone remember off hand who made the first 160 m qso across the pond, or the first on 6 metres and who cares!!!!!!!!!! >> I care! Those names don't spring to mind as readily as they do for the first transatlantic amateur contact ever, but I do occasionally think of those feats. It is good to know I can look them up when I choose to do, because somebody at the time thought it important enough to record the information for future generations. John Currie, John Leahy, and Peter Dodd will not be household names 50 years from now. Neither will be whoever finally accomplishes a plain two-way QSO, nor whoever finally does it in normal-speed CW, or whatever. So, what is the point of trying to deny them the present satisfaction of having done something worthwhile NOW? That goes beyond trying to uphold some ideal of perfection. It's just plain mean-spiritedness. John H. Davis KD4IDY From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15114 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 18:05:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 18:05:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 2998 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 18:05:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 18:05:12 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TShC-0001sT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 17:59:58 +0000 Received: from ds-img-5.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.138] helo=spdmgaae.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TSh8-0001s9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 17:59:54 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id MAA22058 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 12:59:07 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 12:58:25 -0500 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Re. LF LDO>ZJ MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LF Group, >What do you think ?< ... whatever way we consider this QSO, 2-way, 3-way or not valid at all ... I definetely believe that late Peter Bobek, DJ8WL would have loved that pioneering achievement and would have recognized it as what it is: a great way on how to perform one of the silliest challenges ham-radio can have (it is even difficult to explain this to non-LF hams), passing information over the Atlantic using LF. Peter would also like the idea that a lot of the Transatlantic successes were performed in the same way as his first attempts to cross the channel a couple of years back: using extremely slow CW with dot-length way over 60 seconds. I remember quite well the excitement of when I was able to see his DA0LF signal over the remarkable distance of 284 km as a thin line on FFTDSP in early 1997. We have come a long way in the meantime ... Congrats on what has been achieved! Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8664 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 16:33:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 16:33:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 22348 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 16:33:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 16:33:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TREJ-0001KI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:26:03 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [194.200.20.13] (helo=mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TREI-0001KD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:26:02 +0000 Received: from useral65.netscapeonline.co.uk ([62.125.132.139] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 14TR9q-0003O7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:21:27 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A8C0231.10039692@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:22:09 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: lf transatlantic exchange of information References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G0MRF@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 2/13/01 11:49:00 PM GMT Standard Time, > john.currie@ns.sympatico.ca writes: > > << > Congratulations to Peter and Jack > Screen shots will follow > 73 de John VE1ZJ > >> > John Jack Peter. > > It's interesting, one step closer and I await Mal's response with > trepidation !!!!!! (hi) Hello David. Surely everyone presently connected with LF operations knows that the only way to claim an award for a qso is for both parties, one at each end to communicate directly with one another on a given amateur band. Why are some trying to suggest or twist this established practice. They must be desperate for some sort of recognition even to the extent of bending the rules as they go along. Involving a third party in a qso is certainly not valid regardless of the circumstances. The next step will be someone inventing a qso that never really took place chancing their arm and getting carried away with imagination, guesswork and over enthusasism. To be fair, credit must go to those that persevere every night, trying to make a two way qso on 136 khz to the USA/Canada and some are achieving very good results and I hope they make it ultimately, but stick to the established rules. I can see why some G3 and G4 old timers are rushing, maybe they think time is running out!!!!!!!!!!!!! In fact over excitement and late sleepless nights could bring about premature expiry. Beware !!!!!!!!!!! I stick to office hours to prolong life, hopefully. Being first is not important, after a few months when it becomes routine, no one will remember who was first anyway. Can anyone remember off hand who made the first 160 m qso across the pond, or the first on 6 metres and who cares!!!!!!!!!! I am surprised that no one has suggested an OSCAR award for the first across on WOBBLE mode. 73 de G3KEV > . > Well done on some lateral thinking. > > John. How's reception in the presence of CFH and, as Mike asked earlier in > the week, are you and Jack planning another combined effort from Jack's QTH > for a 2 way attempt? > > GL es 73 > > David G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16257 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 16:32:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 16:32:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 21559 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 16:32:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 16:32:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TREG-0001KB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:26:00 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [194.200.20.13] (helo=mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TRED-0001K6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:25:57 +0000 Received: from useral65.netscapeonline.co.uk ([62.125.132.139] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 14TR9g-0003Lv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 16:21:19 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A8AEF19.79A89631@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 20:48:25 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Time & Frequency & so on References: <14146.200102121727@gemini> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz wrote: > Dear LF Group, > > Re - the discussion of GPS derrived timing, DDS frequency > sources, etc. It seems to me that increasing layers of complexity > being proposed could do with some review before rushing headlong > at them. > > Jim. Well put and some are trying to use a JCB to crack the proverbial nut. Learning morse code for some would be a better approach for the occasional qso. If you have volumes of traffic to shift then go for machine generated data modes. You need not even be in the shack just leave it to make a qso for you and come back a week later for a reply. It seems this is what some are aiming for. Another OSCAR !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! G3KEV > > > > > I await new ideas with interest! > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4159 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 15:00:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 15:00:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 24156 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 15:00:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 15:00:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TPnK-0000qw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 14:54:06 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TPnF-0000qr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 14:54:01 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14TPmz-0005KS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 14:53:45 +0000 Message-ID: <21031.200102151453@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 14:57:59 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Insulator problems X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF group, I notice a few people have been having problems with insulators melting/cracking lately. I had problems with my insulators until I fitted some corona rings. What seems to happen when you try to put a lot of power into a small antenna is that corona discharges take place at the ends of the wire and at sharp bends where insulators are attached, where the radius of curvature of the conductor is small, and the potential gradient large. The heat generated either melts, cracks or sets fire to the insulators. So I have fitted the corona rings, which are just hoops of stiff wire about 100mm in diameter, to the "hot" ends of the 3 insulators (2 plastic and 1 ceramic) on my antenna wire. This has eliminated any detectable discharges from the wire, even when operating at full power in heavy rain. The rings are electrically connected to the wire. The "cold" ends of the insulators are supported with non- conducting rope in my system, but with wire halyards you would want a corona ring on both ends of the insulator. It is a simple mod to make, and has made all the difference to my antenna, so might be worth a try if you are having problems. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2525 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 14:05:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 14:05:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 14245 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 14:05:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 14:05:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TOva-0000XG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:58:34 +0000 Received: from [195.47.110.226] (helo=dell1.gmccz.cz.gmc.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TOvZ-0000XB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:58:33 +0000 Received: from p (p.maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net [192.168.1.22]) by dell1.gmccz.cz.gmc.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id 150G1DLM; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 14:59:42 +0100 Message-ID: <010701c09756$c0c82e20$1601a8c0@maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000101c09751$4b554b00$f0b6883e@lvm> Subject: LF: Re: Re. LF LDO>ZJ I always belived that 2-way QSO means contact between 2 stations, not 3 of them. Isn't this 3-way QSO ? (hi...). 73 Petr OK1FIG ----- Original Message ----- From: LAWRENCE MAYHEAD To: rsgb lf group Sent: Thursday, February 15, 2001 2:14 PM Subject: LF: Re. LF LDO>ZJ I personally dont think that there can be much doubt that this was a > QSO,between LDO and ZJ, with ZJ having a remote Tx at ZZs location. If > there > had been a 250 mile(dist. ZZ to ZJ I belive) switch line between them, > when > John identified Peters message he would have pushed the transmit > button! to > reply. Since he did not have this land line he simply asked ZZ to push > the > button via an 80 m link,a pretty fine distinction in my opinion.What do > you > think ? 73s Laurie. > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5767 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 13:19:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 13:19:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 23073 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 13:19:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 13:19:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TOBw-0000K9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:11:24 +0000 Received: from mail6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TOBv-0000K4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:11:23 +0000 Received: from modem-240.eledhwen.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.182.240] helo=lvm) by mail6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14TOBb-0005qc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 13:11:04 +0000 Message-ID: <000101c09751$4b554b00$f0b6883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: Re. LF LDO>ZJ I personally dont think that there can be much doubt that this was a QSO,between LDO and ZJ, with ZJ having a remote Tx at ZZs location. If there had been a 250 mile(dist. ZZ to ZJ I belive) switch line between them, when John identified Peters message he would have pushed the transmit button! to reply. Since he did not have this land line he simply asked ZZ to push the button via an 80 m link,a pretty fine distinction in my opinion.What do you think ? 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9877 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 11:34:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 11:34:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 19576 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 11:34:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 11:34:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TMb7-0008K7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:29:17 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.138] (helo=ruthenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TMb6-0008K0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:29:16 +0000 Received: from [213.1.93.123] (helo=dave) by ruthenium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14TMar-0004Rz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:29:01 +0000 Message-ID: <003301c09742$e30eaf40$7b5d01d5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: 'Anna' virus Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:29:56 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: For a 'hypeless' discussion of the Anna virus mentioned on here yesterday see: http://www.woodyswatch.com/office/archtemplate.asp?current (Woody's Office Watch 6.08) Cheers Dave G3YMC dsergeant@btinternet.com dsergeant@iee.org http://www.btinternet.com/~dsergeant From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18755 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 11:26:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 11:26:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 4107 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 11:26:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 11:26:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TMOj-0008IS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:16:29 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TMOe-0008IN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:16:25 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:01:08 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 11:01:06 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: LDO > ZJ > ZZ a two-way? Message-ID: <3A8BB6F2.29026.5F1FEE@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have been giving some thought to whether I personally regard the recent G3LDO/VE1ZJ/VE1ZZ QSO to be a two-way. My initial reaction was to say that because there was a relay station that did more than just relay - he decoded the spectrogram - this did not constitute a two-way with remote receive. I still think it was not a two-way between VE1ZZ and G3LDO, but was it a two-way transatlantic QSO? There was no 'assistance' on either of the transatlantic paths, only when it reached VE, and the required callsigns and previously unknown information (report) crossed the Atlantic in both directions, and ended up with the same two stations. I think Peter, John and Jack can claim the first two-way, though they have not yet. This looks like it might be an interesting question for the Bobek Trophy adjudicators in RSGB (not me), DARC and AMRAD. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 673 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 10:40:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 10:40:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 27188 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 10:40:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 10:40:03 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TLdx-000806-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:28:09 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from kuku-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.63] helo=kuku.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TLdw-000801-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 10:28:08 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from chilly.excite.com ([199.172.153.77]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010215102748.RLOH3417.kuku.excite.com@chilly.excite.com> for ; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 02:27:48 -0800 Message-ID: <3255276.982232868671.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 02:27:45 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Mysterious double lines MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 213.104.152.135 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, Some of us using Argo to look for signals from VA3LK are regularly seeing a couple of lines at 137790.05 137789.87 Hz. These lines show considerable distortion at times and may be very distant broadcast or special purpose transmissions. Can anyone out there in the U.S.A. Canada, Australia, the far east or anywhere else identify these transmissions for us? 73, John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24018 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 00:40:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 00:40:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 21112 invoked from network); 15 Feb 2001 00:40:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 15 Feb 2001 00:40:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TCMn-0005KZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 00:33:49 +0000 Received: from tor-smtp1.netcom.ca ([207.181.101.69]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14TCMm-0005KU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 15 Feb 2001 00:33:48 +0000 Received: from david (ham-on57-161.netcom.ca [142.154.69.57]) by tor-smtp1.netcom.ca (8.8.7-s-4/8.8.7) with SMTP id TAA08622 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 19:33:31 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <010301c096e7$3cf86f20$6655872c@david> From: "Tenty" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200102141310.OAA00190@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Subject: LF: Re: AR5000 / FT-847 Date: Thu, 15 Feb 2001 00:35:43 -0000 Organization: Holland Data and Wireless MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The FT847 is not so sensitive at 136 Khz and needs a preamp.. 73, Bob ve3tok/pa0tok ----- Original Message ----- From: "Ko Versteeg" Group.. Does anyone use, or has used a Yaesu FT847 or the AOR AR-5000 on 136Khz? There's info allover the internet but can't find a user or his findings on these rigs. I noticed the AR-5000 does not have many hf controls, no PBS or BWC etc but they claim it receives down to 10Hz (Sure) 73 Ko, NL9222. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29006 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 21:32:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 21:32:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 18090 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 21:31:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 21:31:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14T9QS-0004KL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 21:25:24 +0000 Received: from tomts5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.25] helo=tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14T9QR-0004KD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 21:25:23 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.209.110.151]) by tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010214212434.SZJ18941.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:24:34 -0500 Message-ID: <002501c096cc$42304b90$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <004b01c096b7$97954e60$cf81d13e@f9.net.uk> Subject: LF: CFH and VA3LK both OFF Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:22:31 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings All: CFH is off the air at the moment. VA3LK is OFF again with another shattered insulator. The insulator, glass dog bone type, 6 inches long, in the rope that pulls my antenna out from the side of the tower has shattered and the antenna is now hanging against the side of the tower. I have made up a new insulator section of 6 dog bone insulators, glass, ceramic, glass, ceramic, glass, and ceramic, all six inches long, now about three feet long. I hope this will be a final repair for this problem. Due to traveling tomorrow I will not have this new insulator in place until Friday PM. I will transmit on Friday/Saturday and Saturday/Sunday. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19967 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 21:31:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 21:31:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 22074 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 21:31:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 21:31:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14T9O8-0004K8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 21:23:00 +0000 Received: from chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14T9O1-0004K0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 21:22:53 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-13-43.easynet.co.uk [212.134.22.43]) by chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 79219F8842 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 21:22:34 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <002401c096cc$b1f82ba0$2b1686d4@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <004b01c096b7$97954e60$cf81d13e@f9.net.uk> Subject: LF: Re: T/A 2 and a half way. Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 21:25:01 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave said: > Brilliant effort, just shows that a full 2-way can be done, indeed HAS been > but for a bit of 80mtrs which can only have made it more difficult! The idea of the remote receiver was not mine; it was John's. Originally he was to have made (again) the 150 mile journey to VE1ZZ with his receiving and computing kit. However other considerations, including the Canadian Winter, made this option difficult and I guess that is why he opted for the HF link. The idea was put to me by e-mail on Sunday evening. On Monday the weather was awful and in any case John was visiting friends. So we planned it, by e-mail, for the Tuesday and without any testing or practice went straight into the QSO as soon as VE1ZZ came through. The QSO required a certain degree of dexterity by the two Canadians. On the one hand at VE1ZJ; the receiving of my signal with Argo set up for what was an untested 10second dot period, then switching to 80m and the data transfer and acknowledgement, then back to 136 to monitor what was going on. Jack, VE1ZZ, had a different problem. He does not have a computer. He had rigged up an electro-mechanical device to send in beacon mode but sending data posed a difficulty. He overcame this by making a device with two relays and capacitors, one for dots and the other for dashes. He then used a stop watch to place these dots and dashes to key the transmitter, so VE1ZZ's transmission was semi hand keyed. At first I found the keying difficult to read, hence the 'M' report. But as the QSO progressed, Jack became more proficient at his keying and the signal strength improved. If you look at the pictures on Dave Pick's site I am sure you will be impressed at Jack's hand keying. For my part I had the easy bit. We had visitors and I was able to go and join them during my transmission periods - although I had difficulty explaining what I was up to. My view is that is a splendid effort by the Canadian 'team'. Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25826 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 20:05:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 20:05:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 20159 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 20:05:00 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 20:05:00 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14T84e-0003r1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 19:58:48 +0000 Received: from indyweb.cgocable.ca ([205.151.69.200]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14T84c-0003qw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 19:58:47 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from 220-176.lr.cgocable.ca (220-176.lr.cgocable.ca [24.226.220.176]) by indyweb.cgocable.ca (8.9.3 (MessagingDirect 1.0.4)/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA11121645 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 14:58:28 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <200102141958.OAA11121645@indyweb.cgocable.ca> X-Sender: bill1@cgocable.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 14:58:28 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Bill de Carle" Subject: Re: LF: Re: GPS-Disciplined BPSK Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 05:28 PM 2/14/01 +0100, you wrote: >Bill de Carle wrote: > >> >> When removing jitter from a signal that's accurate over the long term, >> we can do better than just averaging. By letting a counter run (e.g. >> from the oscillator we're trying to discipline) and latching it with the >> 1 PPS signal, we get the number of oscillations that have occurred from >> one second to the next. One approach would be to simply average up a >> bunch of these and say that's the best answer. But if we don't clear >> the counter after each 1PPS latching signal - if we just let the counter >> continue running upwards, then we can use least squares to solve for the >> *slope* of the line. Over any given time period that least squares slope >> solution will give a significantly better result than averaging alone. >> Try it if you don't believe it. >> > >Isn't that a variant of Kalman filtering ? Probably, but I don't know enough about Kalman filtering to be able to state just what the relationship is. My tendency is to try to understand complicated things by comparing them to simpler things, not the other way around :-) Another analogy could be a frequency counter - Say we have an input frequency, f, being counted over a 1-second time window that produces an error in the frequency count of e due to the jitter in the duration of the window. Over 1 second the measured frequency will be f +/- e. If we average up a bunch of these reading the errors will tend to iron out and our answer improves according to the square root of the number of samples averaged. Now let's say we open the gate for 10 seconds. Clearly there will only be one error to deal with and its expected value will still be e. The resulting count will be 10*f +e. Dividing this sum by 10 gives f + e/10. I.e. the error diminishes in direct proportion to the length of the count window. The third approach is to measure the slope of the line by least squares, using 10 equally spaced samples over that 10-second window. We will be processing more data; we have more information; statistically the answer will be closer to the true value than with either of the other methods. Method 2 essentially measures the "slope" by taking only the last reading and dividing by the total elapsed time; any error in that reading gets divided by 10 and appears in the answer. The least squares approach minimizes the sum of the squared errors over the entire line - so the actual value of the error at the end (the last reading) doesn't hurt us as much as it otherwise might. The errors are averaged out. It's easy to check this out on a computer - just use fixed frequency and a random number generator to add a certain amount of "noise" (jitter) to each sample. Make many trials using each of the 3 methods and you will see the least squares regression line method gives the best answers. Bill VE2IQ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20518 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 18:59:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 18:59:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 103 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 18:59:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 18:59:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14T756-0003Xd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 18:55:12 +0000 Received: from [62.209.144.6] (helo=sniffout.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14T755-0003XY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 18:55:11 +0000 Received: from picks ([62.209.129.207]) by sniffout.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.977.9); Wed, 14 Feb 2001 18:54:55 +0000 Message-ID: <005201c096b7$cb6131a0$cf81d13e@f9.net.uk> From: "Dave Pick" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Fw: T/A 2 and a half way. Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 18:56:09 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: OH! I have got them! They're going on now.... > > John's pictures are at http://www.wireless.org.uk/newspic51.htm as will > Peter's when I get 'em. > > Dave G3YXM. > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15772 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 18:59:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 18:59:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 28568 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 18:59:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 18:59:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14T73n-0003XU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 18:53:51 +0000 Received: from [62.209.144.6] (helo=sniffout.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14T73j-0003XP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 18:53:47 +0000 Received: from picks ([62.209.129.207]) by sniffout.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.977.9); Wed, 14 Feb 2001 18:53:29 +0000 Message-ID: <004b01c096b7$97954e60$cf81d13e@f9.net.uk> From: "Dave Pick" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: T/A 2 and a half way. Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 18:54:42 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all. Brilliant effort, just shows that a full 2-way can be done, indeed HAS been but for a bit of 80mtrs which can only have made it more difficult! John's pictures are at http://www.wireless.org.uk/newspic51.htm as will Peter's when I get 'em. Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4888 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 18:22:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 18:22:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 14827 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 18:22:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 18:22:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14T6Qr-0003Ko-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 18:13:37 +0000 Received: from mail2.globocabo.com.br ([200.231.181.97] helo=ntweb.globocabo.com.br) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14T6Qp-0003Kj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 18:13:36 +0000 Received: from spovdesi1625 (SPOVD-ESI-1625 [5.8.14.13]) by ntweb.globocabo.com.br with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id 1Z4P8FZ1; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:15:45 -0300 Message-ID: <00db01c096ba$410f9e80$0d0e0805@globocabo.com.br> From: "PY3CRX PY2PLL" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200102141551.KAA11032756@indyweb.cgocable.ca> Subject: Re: LF: Re: GPS-Disciplined BPSK Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:11:59 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Bill de Carle" To: > There is > a problem which will limit us to MS100 or slower anyway. It's that we > have considerable difficulty compensating for the number of *milliseconds* > delay through our transmitters and our receivers. Some numbers: 1) Kachina 505 on USB mode: 1.45 ms 2) Kachina 505 on AM mode: 1.48 ms 2) Mackay Marine (analog) on USB/AM mode: 0.955 ms 73 Marcus PY3CRX/PY2PLL S. B. do Campo - GG66rf http://py.qsl.br Active from "DC" to 24GHz From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5004 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 17:20:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 17:20:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 7105 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 17:20:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 17:20:45 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14T5W5-00032E-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 17:14:57 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14T5W4-000329-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 17:14:56 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14T5Vo-0000e4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 17:14:40 +0000 Message-ID: <29386.200102141714@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 17:18:52 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: 3 way QSO/Accurate clocks X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Congrats to G3LDO, VE1ZZ and VE1ZJ on their QSO - if nothing else, it proves that the SNR in both directions across the pond can be good enough to support 2 way communications in a reasonable amount of time. As regards GPS derrived clocks, etc, it seems to me that errors of the order of 1us or so due to the GPS RX are always going to be small compared to other uncertainties - for example, the distance between the two stations can be determined quite accurately, but ionospheric effects are bound to alter the effective length of the path by much more than microseconds. Also, the group delay of the average CW receiver filter must be at least a few milliseconds, and this will be dependent on where the signal is in the passband, as well as temperature/ageing effects. So the issue would seem to be not so much how to get an accurate clock, but how to calibrate it for a QSO over a particular path between stations using a specific set of equipment. Incidentally, the 2000 HP - sorry, Agilent catalogue says their HP58503B GPS receiver will give time accurate to 110ns with 95% probability if I read the specifications correctly. The jitter on the 1pps output is <750ps RMS. The 10MHz output is specified in parts in 10^11 or 10^12 depending on the measurement period. It is in a cute box like a bench digital multimeter. No doubt easy mortgage terms are available.... Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14753 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 16:36:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 16:36:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 4529 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 16:36:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 16:36:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14T4pK-0002kn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:30:46 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from d12lmsgate.de.ibm.com ([195.212.91.199]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14T4p6-0002kK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:30:35 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by d12lmsgate.de.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id RAA165394 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 17:29:24 +0100 Received: from usa.net (ss2.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.67]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id QAA39282 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:28:52 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A8AB224.C94A2BE9@usa.net> Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 17:28:20 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: GPS-Disciplined BPSK References: <200102141551.KAA11032756@indyweb.cgocable.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Bill de Carle wrote: > > When removing jitter from a signal that's accurate over the long term, > we can do better than just averaging. By letting a counter run (e.g. > from the oscillator we're trying to discipline) and latching it with the > 1 PPS signal, we get the number of oscillations that have occurred from > one second to the next. One approach would be to simply average up a > bunch of these and say that's the best answer. But if we don't clear > the counter after each 1PPS latching signal - if we just let the counter > continue running upwards, then we can use least squares to solve for the > *slope* of the line. Over any given time period that least squares slope > solution will give a significantly better result than averaging alone. > Try it if you don't believe it. > Isn't that a variant of Kalman filtering ? 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16085 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 16:16:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 16:16:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 1878 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 16:16:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 16:16:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14T4UA-0002fF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:08:54 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from firewall.dii.unisi.it ([193.205.7.2] ident=postfix) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14T4Tq-0002f8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 16:08:34 +0000 Received: from alpha.dii.unisi.it (alpha.dii.unisi.it [10.1.0.1]) by firewall.dii.unisi.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 067D53C412 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 17:06:33 +0100 (CET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from mailsrv.dii.unisi.it (pcfasec.dii.unisi.it [10.6.9.1]) by alpha.dii.unisi.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id DC57A1829C for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 18:19:56 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <3A8AAD69.58699AFA@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 17:08:09 +0100 From: "Valerio Gabbani" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: LF transmission Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello all, this evening i will transmit on 135.946 kHz the string "ZPV" with 20 sec. dot 1/2 ratio starting at 21:00 UTC every 15 minutes untill 00:00 UTC. '73 Valerio From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21621 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 15:58:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 15:58:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 2584 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 15:58:31 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 15:58:31 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14T4E3-0002ZH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:52:15 +0000 Received: from indyweb.cgocable.ca ([205.151.69.200]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14T4E0-0002ZC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:52:12 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from 220-166.lr.cgocable.ca (220-166.lr.cgocable.ca [24.226.220.166]) by indyweb.cgocable.ca (8.9.3 (MessagingDirect 1.0.4)/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA11032756 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 10:51:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <200102141551.KAA11032756@indyweb.cgocable.ca> X-Sender: bill1@cgocable.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 10:52:00 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Bill de Carle" Subject: Re: LF: Re: GPS-Disciplined BPSK Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 02:53 PM 2/14/01 -0000, Andy wrote: >> > in view. The 1PPS output is specified to be within 50ns of "true >time" (GPS time >> > or UTC, selectable) with SA on. Now that SA is gone, the accuracy is >even better >> > (there is always a ~30ns sawtooth error due to finite resolution in >the software/hardware). >> > > >Surely, if the 1us jitter is a function of clock timing synchronisation >then by averaging over many 1s periods, as the Brooks Shera design does, >errors will be averaged out and high accuracy frequency sources may be >properly locked to this 1PPS signal. No GPS disciplined frequency >source worth its name would, or should, ever try to correct output >frequency absolutely on a pulse by pulse basis. When removing jitter from a signal that's accurate over the long term, we can do better than just averaging. By letting a counter run (e.g. from the oscillator we're trying to discipline) and latching it with the 1 PPS signal, we get the number of oscillations that have occurred from one second to the next. One approach would be to simply average up a bunch of these and say that's the best answer. But if we don't clear the counter after each 1PPS latching signal - if we just let the counter continue running upwards, then we can use least squares to solve for the *slope* of the line. Over any given time period that least squares slope solution will give a significantly better result than averaging alone. Try it if you don't believe it. >>From memory, I think that design only claims about 10^-9 accuracy anyway >locking with a time constant of many tens of minutes using a digital >phase locked loop, still far less than GPS 'ought' to be capable of, >although this was in the days when Selective Availability was still on. >But accurate enough for most LF experiments - at the moment. For bit >timing purposes, I would have thought 1ms was good enough for 100ms or >slower BPSK. Absolutely. What we have now is plenty good enough for BPSK. There is a problem which will limit us to MS100 or slower anyway. It's that we have considerable difficulty compensating for the number of *milliseconds* delay through our transmitters and our receivers. At MS100 or slower, the existing GPS 1PPS outputs (even from "cheapie" GPS receivers) are very well suited to our purposes. Bill VE2IQ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29626 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 15:01:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 15:01:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 14270 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 15:01:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 15:01:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14T3KS-0002GY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 14:54:48 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14T3KO-0002GT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 14:54:44 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id OAA28065; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 14:56:26 GMT Received: (qmail 15098 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 15:47:11 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 15:47:11 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id PAA02146; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 15:36:45 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma001739; Wed, 14 Feb 01 15:35:39 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-3.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 14:57:32 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-3.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <17AH5QN0>; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 14:53:10 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D75B4@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: GPS-Disciplined BPSK Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 14:53:18 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > > in view. The 1PPS output is specified to be within 50ns of "true time" (GPS time > > or UTC, selectable) with SA on. Now that SA is gone, the accuracy is even better > > (there is always a ~30ns sawtooth error due to finite resolution in the software/hardware). > > Surely, if the 1us jitter is a function of clock timing synchronisation then by averaging over many 1s periods, as the Brooks Shera design does, errors will be averaged out and high accuracy frequency sources may be properly locked to this 1PPS signal. No GPS disciplined frequency source worth its name would, or should, ever try to correct output frequency absolutely on a pulse by pulse basis. >From memory, I think that design only claims about 10^-9 accuracy anyway locking with a time constant of many tens of minutes using a digital phase locked loop, still far less than GPS 'ought' to be capable of, although this was in the days when Selective Availability was still on. But accurate enough for most LF experiments - at the moment. For bit timing purposes, I would have thought 1ms was good enough for 100ms or slower BPSK. RF carriers such as BBC Radio 4 on 198kHz which have a specified accuracy are not actually themselves generated from a locked source, due to the requirement to keep phase noise as low as possible. Instead, they run from very high stability oscillators which are manually corrected in frequency and phase against a national standard from "time to time" - presumably when they have drifted enough degrees to see. Therefore the short term stability is excellent, better probably than the Caesium standard on site for the regular checks, and certainly better than an off air MSF or GPS one. Overall accuracy due to the constant corrections in the long term equals that of the primary standard. Oscillators used will be of the modern Hewlett Packard design (Agilent now) which claim +/- 5 *10^-10 / day short term drift and 1*10^-10 aging for their oscillators. The oscillator in my Cs standard, left free running, maintains better than 10^-9 over months and that is for a thirty year old unit (well aged !) Even the cheaper ovenned oscillators, often to be found on the surplus market and in surplus test equipment can maintain a few parts in 10^-9 over days or even months. At a recent rally I saw a box of 5MHz ovenned standards selling for £10 each - and no one was buying them ! These were of the type that if NEVER turned off, can give 10^-9 accuracy once adjusted. They were used originally in co-channel UHF PMR transmitters where 450MHz carriers in overlapping service areas are maintained at just a Hz or so apart in frequency. This ensures that any receiver in an overlapping service with equal signal from both transmitters carrying the same FM traffic does not suffer horrible beat notes, just a fading signal that does not detract from reception too much. Andy G4JNT -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution,o r any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23729 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 13:27:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 13:27:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 24662 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 13:27:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 13:27:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14T1rs-0001nv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 13:21:12 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from d12lmsgate-3.de.ibm.com ([195.212.91.201]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14T1rq-0001nd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 13:21:10 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d12relay02.de.ibm.com (d12relay02.de.ibm.com [9.165.215.23]) by d12lmsgate-3.de.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id OAA66206 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 14:20:11 +0100 Received: from usa.net (ss4.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.69]) by d12relay02.de.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id OAA31964 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 14:19:29 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A8A85DB.FF4B58AB@usa.net> Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 14:19:23 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: GPS-Disciplined BPSK References: <008601c09682$e7f3bfc0$f06e97d4@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Johan Bodin wrote: > Oh! That's bad news. I checked the Laipac data sheet and the 1PPS accuracy > is +/-1 microsecond - about 20 times worse than the UT+... It's good enough to > be used as a bit clock but probably not good enough for disciplining a frequency > standard. > Johan, I asked about this OEM unit on the TAPR bulletin board TACGPS. Here are a couple of answers I received . ---------------------------------- According to the data on the web site, the receivers are based on SiRF technology, which is a pretty fair pedigree. While the 1us jitter appears excessive, perhaps it's not as bad as all that. I seem to recall hearing about a timing app using these (SiRF) receivers that was rivalling the OnCores, but I'm not sure where... ---------------------------------- A few experimental SiRFstar-I receivers were equipped with experimental timing firmware. The test results showed the 1PPS far better than any other receiver we had seen before, 5-10 times better than an Oncore VP or UT+. For a copy of the paper or viewgraphs given at ION-2000 back in September check out http://www.gpstime.com/. This is an ongoing project. New SiRF firmware was released for testing this morning. Unfortunately, this is not for sale at this time. The 1PPS performance of a GPS receiver is determined primarily by two things - the hardware capability of the receiver and the firmware. The best hardware will still only provide roughly +-500nsec (half a microsecond) performance with plenty of jitter if the firmware is optimized only for navigation. The best firmware will be limited by the clock speed of the CPU in setting the edges of the 1PPS, although this can be removed through post processing of the "sawtooth correction" data. Rick W2GPS ------------------------------------- Another (longish) answer on the topic, by Dr Thomas A Clark, is the following : http://www.tapr.org/tapr/list-archive/tacgps/0101/msg00024.html 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21151 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 13:17:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 13:17:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 19750 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 13:17:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 13:17:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14T1hy-0001iz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 13:10:58 +0000 Received: from smtp.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.193.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14T1hx-0001iu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 13:10:57 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from default (p426.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.201.26]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA00190 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 14:10:39 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <200102141310.OAA00190@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 14:10:55 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: AR5000 / FT-847 X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Group.. Does anyone use, or has used a Yaesu FT847 or the AOR AR-5000 on 136Khz? There's info allover the internet but can't find a user or his findings on these rigs. I noticed the AR-5000 does not have many hf controls, no PBS or BWC etc but they claim it receives down to 10Hz (Sure) 73 Ko, NL9222. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27345 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 13:07:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 13:07:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 6144 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 13:07:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 13:07:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14T1Ya-0001hm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 13:01:16 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14T1YY-0001hh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 13:01:15 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:47:31 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:47:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: VE1ZZ/VE1ZJ Message-ID: <3A8A7E61.2310.CCA840@localhost> In-reply-to: <2001021323592068199@zetnet.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3LDO wrote: > I have just had an interesting QRSS QSO with Jack, VE1ZZ. My transmit > frequency was 135.920 and Jack was on 136.501. I used 10s dots, John > 3s dots. > My QRSS signal was received by John, VE1ZJ and relayed via 80m to > VE1ZZ. Congratulations to John, Jack and Peter for moving the two-way QSO a bit nearer. I suspect that as it stands, the QSO does not count as a "two-way", but it would if (1) Jack's transmitter was keyed down a landline (Internet or even radio?) connection by John, or (2) John's receiver audio was relayed to Jack for decoding at his end. This would probably count as remote Tx or Rx site. What it does tell us is that there is enough time to complete a two- way despite the Catch-22 that very slow speeds must be used to get through at all, but there is too little time at very slow speeds to get much information transfer. The use of split speed is a useful development. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7774 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 12:42:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 12:42:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 21106 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 12:42:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 12:42:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14T1Bj-0001XW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:37:39 +0000 Received: from fep01.swip.net ([130.244.199.129] helo=fep01-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14T1Bi-0001XR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:37:38 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.10.64]) by fep01-svc.swip.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with SMTP id <20010214123651.ECGZ13198.fep01-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 13:36:51 +0100 Message-ID: <008601c09682$e7f3bfc0$f06e97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: SV: Re: GPS-Disciplined BPSK Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 13:37:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alberto di Bene wrote: >I remember having read that the Oncore has been discontinued by Motorola. >I have been suggested the following GPS OEM unit as a valid (or better) alternative >when the primary interest is the 1PPS pulse : http://www.laipac.com/msg4.htm Oh! That's bad news. I checked the Laipac data sheet and the 1PPS accuracy is +/-1 microsecond - about 20 times worse than the UT+... It's good enough to be used as a bit clock but probably not good enough for disciplining a frequency standard. 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20673 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 11:58:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 11:58:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 13239 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 11:58:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 11:58:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14T0Ux-0001JS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 11:53:27 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from d12lmsgate-3.de.ibm.com ([195.212.91.201]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14T0Uq-0001JN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 11:53:21 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by d12lmsgate-3.de.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id MAA26004 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:50:52 +0100 Received: from usa.net (ss9.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.75]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id LAA174558 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 11:50:32 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A8A70E9.241F523B@usa.net> Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:50:01 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: GPS-Disciplined BPSK References: <004301c09608$05ddca60$1b0d97d4@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Johan Bodin wrote: > > Another alternative is Motorola Oncore UT+ which was designed specifically > for timing applications. It has a "Site Survey" function which, if started, calculates > the average of 10000 position measurements and then enters "position hold mode". > When in position hold mode, it delivers accurate time with as little as one satellite > in view. The 1PPS output is specified to be within 50ns of "true time" (GPS time > or UTC, selectable) with SA on. Now that SA is gone, the accuracy is even better > (there is always a ~30ns sawtooth error due to finite resolution in the software/hardware). > [snip] I remember having read that the Oncore has been discontinued by Motorola. I have been suggested the following GPS OEM unit as a valid (or better) alternative when the primary interest is the 1PPS pulse : http://www.laipac.com/msg4.htm 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7070 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 11:26:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 11:26:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 4176 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 11:26:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 11:26:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Szwq-00019m-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 11:18:12 +0000 Received: from hugo.fen-net.de ([194.95.193.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Szwl-00019h-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 11:18:08 +0000 Received: from 194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de (dialin-nbg-229.fen-net.de [195.37.215.109]) by hugo.fen-net.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA00935 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 12:17:44 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <013201c072c3$c9f2dde0$6dd725c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de> From: "Walter Staubach" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Slow-Voice QSO -- Interview on LF QSO will be broadcasted by ROI Date: Sun, 31 Dec 2000 01:48:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by hugo.fen-net.de id MAA00935 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Guten Tag, Geri, prima Öffentlichkeitsarbeit. Leider nicht in DL. Wünsche Dir, dass alles gut klappt. Bin übrigens wieder auf 8950Hz. Zu Markus hat es zwar noch nicht geklappt, habe aber meine aurale Reichweite (500Hz-Filter) von 700m auf 1000m erhöht - per Luftantenne (per Erdantenne geht es z.Zt. noch weiter.) Etwas ist aus meiner Anlage noch herauszuholen. Vielleicht schaffen wir ja doch noch den Weltrekord, hi. 73 Walter (z.Zt. intensiv mit Hausarbeit beschäftigt, da sich Marianne bei Glatteis den Unterschenkel gebrochen hat und nach Operation nun zu Hause ist und die ersten schmerzvollen Schritte an Krücken macht. 73 Walter -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: Holger 'Geri', DK8KW An: INTERNET:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Datum: Donnerstag, 8. Februar 2001 00:58 Betreff: LF: Slow-Voice QSO -- Interview on LF QSO will be broadcasted by ROI >Hello LF group, > >for those of you capable of understanding German: in the next edition of >"Intermedia" of the Austrian Broadcasting Service ROI (Radio Österreich >International) there will be a short information on the Slow-Voice QSO that >Markus, DF6NM an I had on LF end of last year (more information: >www.qru.de/slowvoice.html). The report will include an interview with me >and original sound samples from our QSO. > >For details on frequencies/times of the transmission, please have a look at > > > http://roi.orf.at/intermedia/welcome.html > >here you can also download an MP3 file of the report (after Friday >afternoon), or hear the transmission in Real Audio. > >Best 73 > >Geri, W1KW (DK8KW) >currently Houston/TX > >--------------------------------------------------------------------------- >----- > >Intermedia: > > Freitag 19.00 > Europa > 5.945, 6.155 kHz > > Freitag 19.30 > Europa > 1.476 kHz > > Samstag 20.00 > Europa > 5.945, 6.155 kHz > > Sonntag 16.30 > Europa > 6.155, 13.730 kHz > > alle Zeitangaben in UTC > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23710 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 10:48:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 10:48:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 8526 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 10:48:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 10:48:00 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SzOO-0000vx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 10:42:36 +0000 Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.35]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SzOL-0000vo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 10:42:34 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.c9.d3831ec (7878) for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 05:40:35 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 05:40:35 EST Subject: Re: LF: lf transatlantic exchange of information To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 105 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 2/13/01 11:49:00 PM GMT Standard Time, john.currie@ns.sympatico.ca writes: << Congratulations to Peter and Jack Screen shots will follow 73 de John VE1ZJ >> John Jack Peter. It's interesting, one step closer and I await Mal's response with trepidation !!!!!! (hi). Well done on some lateral thinking. John. How's reception in the presence of CFH and, as Mike asked earlier in the week, are you and Jack planning another combined effort from Jack's QTH for a 2 way attempt? GL es 73 David G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2789 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 10:31:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 10:31:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 16548 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 10:31:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 10:31:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Sz7o-0000qa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 10:25:28 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from d12lmsgate.de.ibm.com ([195.212.91.199]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Sz7g-0000qU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 10:25:20 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.147]) by d12lmsgate.de.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id LAA135830 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 11:24:17 +0100 Received: from usa.net (ss9.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.75]) by d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id KAA102768 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 10:24:03 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A8A5CA3.3FC2BB42@usa.net> Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 11:23:31 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: who was it ? References: <3A86F1FA.587D974A@usa.net> <14SiPv-129cRcC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: jannsen wrote: > [snip] > tks Alberto/I2PHD for the new argo with all the tricks ! do you need any support > what ever ? > [snip] Uwe, I would need an help to dig in my back garden for the ground radials of my future 137 kHz antenna, but I am not asking you to come here to help me dig :-) 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7650 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 09:50:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 09:50:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 10249 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 09:50:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 09:50:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SyTb-0000b9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:43:55 +0000 Received: from mail6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SyTa-0000b4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:43:55 +0000 Received: from modem-203.emerie.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.194.203] helo=lvm) by mail6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14SyTJ-0001LA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:43:37 +0000 Message-ID: <001001c0966b$23a42180$cbc2883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: Re. LF Transatlantic exchange of information. Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:43:58 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: CONGRATULATIONS to Peter,John and Jack,what a good idea,wish I thought of it.I monitored CFH last night and there was an early peak here from 2300 to 0030, guess you just hit it!.Later peaks were higher so !! 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23998 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 09:43:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 09:43:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 14885 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 09:43:23 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 09:43:23 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SyJC-0000ZF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:33:10 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rhun.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.26]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SyJB-0000Z9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:33:09 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ea.esoterica.pt (ea.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.204]) by rhun.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1E9Wmb14474 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:32:48 GMT Received: from slave2 (por373.esoterica.pt [195.22.18.74]) by ea.esoterica.pt (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA17855 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:32:47 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010214093243.007c6a40@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:32:43 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: LF: QRG MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Gentlemen, Is there any objection to my transmitting on 135.9310KHz as listed on Mike's G3XDV web site? I am happy to stand down should it be required again for Malin Head. 73, Brian 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21596 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 09:41:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 09:41:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 12762 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 09:41:22 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 09:41:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SyHg-0000WB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:31:36 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rhun.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.26]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SyHe-0000W6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:31:34 +0000 Received: from ea.esoterica.pt (ea.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.204]) by rhun.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1E9VCb14269 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:31:12 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from slave2 (por373.esoterica.pt [195.22.18.74]) by ea.esoterica.pt (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA16786 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:31:11 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010214093011.00794100@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:30:11 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: VE1ZZ/VE1ZJ In-reply-to: <2001021323592068199@zetnet.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: With patience and perserverance. Congratulations Peter. 73, Brian At 23:59 13/02/01 GMT, you wrote: >I have just had an interesting QRSS QSO with Jack, VE1ZZ. My transmit >frequency was 135.920 and Jack was on 136.501. I used 10s dots, John 3s dots. 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25295 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 09:16:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 09:16:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 4923 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 09:15:59 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 09:15:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SxsK-0000QC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:05:24 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rhun.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.26]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SxsI-0000Q7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:05:23 +0000 Received: from ea.esoterica.pt (ea.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.204]) by rhun.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1E955b12241 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:05:05 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from slave2 (por057.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.57]) by ea.esoterica.pt (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA02641 for ; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:05:04 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010214090500.007c7190@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Wed, 14 Feb 2001 09:05:00 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: Re: who was it ? In-reply-to: <016f01c0961a$9d0c50c0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> References: <3A86F1FA.587D974A@usa.net> <14SiPv-129cRcC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> <3.0.5.32.20010213194625.008bb7f0@pop3.esoterica.pt> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Larry, I transmitted from 1500 utc Sunday, 11 February until 0800 utc Monday, 12 February, since when I have transmitted no signal at all of any description. Is somebody using my call sign? I have been monitoring CFH for the last two nights and have the Spectrograms. 73, Brian At 18:32 13/02/01 -0500, you wrote: >Not sure, but your no where near AQC in any case. Very nice signal again > >Larry >VA3LK > > > > 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8136 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 00:20:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 00:20:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 1490 invoked from network); 14 Feb 2001 00:20:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 14 Feb 2001 00:20:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SpbE-0006WB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 00:15:12 +0000 Received: from tomts7.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.40] helo=tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SpbD-0006VH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 14 Feb 2001 00:15:11 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.208.193.192]) by tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.16 201-229-121-116-20010115) with SMTP id <20010214001422.ETPN4700.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1>; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 19:14:22 -0500 Message-ID: <017701c0961a$cfbb2b40$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, "\"Mike Dennison\"" References: <3A87D5BC.3808.4FD5B5@localhost> Subject: Re: LF: DDS Frequency setting requirement Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 19:04:47 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings: > > .......................I suggest the time has come to make > > this a requirement for all of us experimenting on LF. > > Comments etc. > > Larry > > VA3LK > > I am sure you meant to say recommendation. As soon as we make > something a requirement, I am out of here. >> Mike, G3XDV Yes, well it took some effort to see your perspective of "requirement" but I guess you are offering a regulatory perspective. No I would never have even considered or thought of government not now, not when I was a child and not in my dotage would I have thought of requirement in that context. My intent was to make it a "requirement" on DDS VFO replacement suppliers - and I note Brian Rogerson has a new DDS from S&S engineering and their only offering of a solution is to divide a higher number by 100 which is what one gets when one doesn't make the issue a "requirement" on the DDS unit manufacturer. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29205 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 23:50:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 23:50:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 25725 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 23:50:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 23:50:19 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Sp8c-0006Gq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 23:45:38 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Sp8b-0006Gl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 23:45:37 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.94.79]) by jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 19:44:50 -0400 Message-ID: <3A8A0DA3.637A8941@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 23:46:28 -0500 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: lf transatlantic exchange of information Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, An exchange of information has taken place across the atlantic. I acted as Jack VE1ZZ's receiving station, Just like CFH transmits from one sight but receives from another. Peter, G3ldo and Jack VE1ZZ had a QSO, sort of ! Jack transmitted on 136.5 kHz Peter heard Jack and he called VE1ZZ signed G3LDO and sent Jack a "M" signal report I heard Peter and communicated the report and call identification information via link on 3530 kHz to Jack . I also gave Jack a signal report to communicate to Peter. Jack sent Peter RRR and "O". We started 2105. By now condx were improved. Peter sent R and Jack sent R Jack always transmitted to Peter on 136.5 kHz with 3 second dots. Peter always answered on 135.921 kHz with 10 second dots. The contavt ended at 2237Z Congratulations to Peter and Jack Screen shots will follow 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12973 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 23:50:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 23:50:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 2950 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 23:50:14 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 23:50:14 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Sp7m-0006Gj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 23:44:46 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Sp7i-0006Ge-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 23:44:42 +0000 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.2/8.11.2/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id f1DNiRC01180 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 23:44:27 GMT X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <2001021323592068199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 23:59:20 GMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: LF: VE1ZZ/VE1ZJ Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit I have just had an interesting QRSS QSO with Jack, VE1ZZ. My transmit frequency was 135.920 and Jack was on 136.501. I used 10s dots, John 3s dots. My QRSS signal was received by John, VE1ZJ and relayed via 80m to VE1ZZ. VE1ZZ was first received at 2200 and although quite strong was only R 'M'. I sent this report to VE1ZZ and with no noticeable delay got an acknowledgement. By this time the signals had increased to R 'O' and this was sent with the final acknowledgement. My special thanks go to John for making the QSO possible. I will send .jpgs to Dave Pick as soon as I have them together. -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18915 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 22:12:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 22:12:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 18448 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 22:12:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 22:12:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SnSX-0005i2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 21:58:05 +0000 Received: from fep03.swip.net ([130.244.199.131] helo=fep03-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SnSV-0005hx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 21:58:04 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.13.27]) by fep03-svc.swip.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with SMTP id <20010213215714.CIEY13296.fep03-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 22:57:14 +0100 Message-ID: <004301c09608$05ddca60$1b0d97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: SV: LF: GPS-Disciplined BPSK Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 22:57:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Bill VE2IQ wrote: >I checked with Garmin on this and they're standing by their 1 microsecond >spec. They suggest using the GPS25-LVS (which apparently has a mode where >you can specify that the location is fixed and let it concentrate on >calculating the time accurately) - and say that under good signal conditions >the 1PPS output will track UTC "well within" the 1 microsecond limit. >They say typical accuracy is 100 nsec RMS with 50 nsec jitter. Another alternative is Motorola Oncore UT+ which was designed specifically for timing applications. It has a "Site Survey" function which, if started, calculates the average of 10000 position measurements and then enters "position hold mode". When in position hold mode, it delivers accurate time with as little as one satellite in view. The 1PPS output is specified to be within 50ns of "true time" (GPS time or UTC, selectable) with SA on. Now that SA is gone, the accuracy is even better (there is always a ~30ns sawtooth error due to finite resolution in the software/hardware). http://www.motorola.com/ies/GPS/products/produt.html I am using an UT+ in my frequency standard - a modified version of Brooks Shera's design - and I am very happy with it. http://www.rt66.com/~shera/index_fs.htm For LF use, the 10MHz output from the standard can be used for DDS clocking (RX/TX LO) and the 1PPS output, or submultiples thereof, can be used as a bit clock. The time message from the serial port can be used for message framing. If you feel that 32-bit DDS resolution is inadequate, have a look at the ISL5314 DDS chip from Intersil/Harris. It has a 48 bit phase accumulator and a 14-bit DAC on-chip... 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25849 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 19:53:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 19:53:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 2856 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 19:53:37 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 19:53:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SlPK-00056B-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 19:46:38 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from dargolad.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.27]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SlPG-000566-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 19:46:35 +0000 Received: from ea.esoterica.pt (ea.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.204]) by dargolad.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1DJkDI28388 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 19:46:13 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from slave2 (por085.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.85]) by ea.esoterica.pt (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA16771 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 19:46:12 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010213194625.008bb7f0@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 19:46:25 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: Re: who was it ? In-reply-to: <000c01c095e8$681790a0$dd6068d5@oemcomputer> References: <3A86F1FA.587D974A@usa.net> <14SiPv-129cRcC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Mike, Not guilty. Apart from the VFO the system has been firmly off since about 0800 Monday morning. 73, Brian At 18:11 13/02/01 -0000, you wrote: >> Hi all, >> last night (12. to 13. of febr.) I switched rx, pc es argo120 (10s dots, >AGC >> off) on and got the dots and dashes as shown enclosed. the rx has not been >> stable.just switched it on. who was ZOA ? > > >The three dashes, space, dash, space and dash ( _ _ _ _ _ ) >at the bottom of your screen was me sending a 'D' using 10s dashes as Morse >elements - it looks like a proper 'D' when seen in 30s or 60s dot mode. > >I think the strong one above is Brian, CT1DRP. Not sure what is at the top >of your picture. > >73 > >Mike, G3XDV >http://www.lf.thersgb.net > > > > 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29793 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 19:04:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 19:04:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 22067 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 19:04:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 19:04:39 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SkeX-0004q8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 18:58:17 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fortune-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.203] helo=fortune.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SkeV-0004q1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 18:58:16 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from chilly.excite.com ([199.172.153.77]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010213185727.NXJN12032.fortune.excite.com@chilly.excite.com> for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:57:27 -0800 Message-ID: <23707662.982090647541.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 10:57:08 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: G3AQC into NC last night MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 213.104.149.177 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Dexter, The line on .9237 (actually 135923.694779) is a Loran line from the NE US chain. The other one which you say is at .92105 is probably not Loran, the closest is 135921.595598 from the New Foundland chain. If you are interested I can e-mail you the complete list. 73, John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17551 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 18:56:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 18:56:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 25547 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 18:56:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 18:56:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SkRQ-0004mI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 18:44:44 +0000 Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SkRP-0004mD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 18:44:43 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([62.255.56.60]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010213184428.XDFN6427.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 18:44:28 +0000 Message-ID: <001101c095ec$e32be8a0$1c2eff3e@oemcomputer> From: "Paul Howett" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: New virus Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 18:43:22 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, There's a new virus about, supposed to be very rampant. It arrives on an e-mail with subject line: Here you have, ;o) and attachment entitled: AnnaKournikova.jpg.vbs Apparently it's effect is to connect you to a site in the Netherlands on Jan 26th. Removal instructions are on the Symantec antivirus site. (I know virus warnings are a bit off topic, so if you out there would rather I didn't post them please let me know) Regards de Paul G4MD E-mail Paul :- slowpoke@ntlworld.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10179 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 18:24:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 18:24:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 27457 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 18:24:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 18:24:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Sjw1-0004dE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 18:12:17 +0000 Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.43]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Sjvx-0004d8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 18:12:13 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.96.221]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010213181158.QIZI10171.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 18:11:58 +0000 Message-ID: <000c01c095e8$681790a0$dd6068d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3A86F1FA.587D974A@usa.net> <14SiPv-129cRcC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> Subject: LF: Re: who was it ? Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 18:11:33 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Hi all, > last night (12. to 13. of febr.) I switched rx, pc es argo120 (10s dots, AGC > off) on and got the dots and dashes as shown enclosed. the rx has not been > stable.just switched it on. who was ZOA ? The three dashes, space, dash, space and dash ( _ _ _ _ _ ) at the bottom of your screen was me sending a 'D' using 10s dashes as Morse elements - it looks like a proper 'D' when seen in 30s or 60s dot mode. I think the strong one above is Brian, CT1DRP. Not sure what is at the top of your picture. 73 Mike, G3XDV http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7368 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 16:49:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 16:49:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 17152 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 16:49:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 16:49:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SiQX-00049i-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 16:35:41 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout00.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SiQW-00049d-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 16:35:40 +0000 Received: from fwd04.sul.t-online.com by mailout00.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14SiQG-0004cv-01; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 17:35:24 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (0482183881-0001@[62.227.109.163]) by fwd04.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14SiPv-129cRcC; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 17:35:03 +0100 From: "jannsen" <0482183881-0001@t-online.de> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3A86F1FA.587D974A@usa.net> Subject: LF: who was it ? X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------000601040402040807030306" Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 17:35:03 +0100 Message-ID: <14SiPv-129cRcC@fwd04.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 0482183881-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------000601040402040807030306 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi all, last night (12. to 13. of febr.) I switched rx, pc es argo120 (10s dots, AGC off) on and got the dots and dashes as shown enclosed. the rx has not been stable.just switched it on. who was ZOA ? tks Alberto/I2PHD for the new argo with all the tricks ! do you need any support what ever ? regards Uwe/dj8wx, qsl.net/dj8wx, jo43sv --------------000601040402040807030306 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="CAPT00~3.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="CAPT00~3.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEAYABgAAD/2wBDABwUFRkVEhwZFxkgHhwiK0cuKycnK1c+QjRHZ1tt a2VbZGJygKSLcnmbe2JkjsKQm6mut7m3bonJ18ey1qS0t7D/2wBDAR4gICslK1QuLlSwdWR1 sLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLCwsLD/wAAR CACdAjYDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA AgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkK FhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWG h4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl 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eRSk5HSkBwegpiE4o2n0NLwT0o3HoDQAntS9OoNOQZ60HjORmnYBnGelKRS7h/d/WjduPIpW QDeaACenNO+6eKQHmlYYHgdaTFKWPSlDccU9BDaMH0NOYjuKVD6cfSiwDMe9B9qcT81JvJ70 aDE/Cg+9KTRuJODQAh6UAZqTfnjH600jiiwhnelJpwx0IoICniiwxM0objhqO2SKASOlNCE5 PrSU7PPSnucr0osB03hb/kGyf9dj/wCgrRUXhu1t57CRpoIpGEpGXQE4wKKwe5R//9k= --------------000601040402040807030306-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17867 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 16:17:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 16:17:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 8907 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 16:17:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 16:17:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Shvr-00040X-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 16:03:59 +0000 Received: from cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.173]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Shvn-00040S-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 16:03:55 +0000 Received: from modem-110.dain.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.151.238] helo=lvm) by cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14ShvX-0002zm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 16:03:40 +0000 Message-ID: <001801c095d7$1070a960$ee97883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: G3AQC into NC last night Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 16:06:56 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks Dexter for the report also freq and QRM check. I make the freq 135.921.7/8 so we are in fairly good agreement.I think cdx a bit poor at the moment! 73s Laurie. -----Original Message----- From: Dexter McIntyre W4DEX To: RSGB LF Date: 13 February 2001 15:09 Subject: LF: G3AQC into NC last night >Laurie's signal peaked at 0400 UT. Was not able to catch a complete >call set but a good AQC was identifiable. I show the frequency to be >135.9217 khz. I am beginning to see a noise line slightly shy of 922. >So Laurie wherever you were last night that frequency is clear here. I >will continue to run Argo each night the QRN is low. My normal Argo >screen range is .921 to .924 with loran lines at .92105 and .9237. Can >someone verify loran lines on these frequencies? > >W4DEX > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12831 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 15:08:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 15:08:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 5182 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 15:08:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 15:08:03 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Sgvd-0003cA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 14:59:41 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.47]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Sgvc-0003bs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 14:59:40 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from att.net ([12.77.29.65]) by mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.10 201-229-121-110) with ESMTP id <20010213145851.GRKU7738.mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net@att.net> for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 14:58:51 +0000 Message-ID: <3A894BA8.50D0F4CC@att.net> Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 09:58:48 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "RSGB LF" Subject: LF: G3AQC into NC last night Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Laurie's signal peaked at 0400 UT. Was not able to catch a complete call set but a good AQC was identifiable. I show the frequency to be 135.9217 khz. I am beginning to see a noise line slightly shy of 922. So Laurie wherever you were last night that frequency is clear here. I will continue to run Argo each night the QRN is low. My normal Argo screen range is .921 to .924 with loran lines at .92105 and .9237. Can someone verify loran lines on these frequencies? W4DEX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7411 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 15:04:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 15:04:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 1176 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 15:04:17 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 15:04:17 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SgnA-0003bX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 14:50:56 +0000 Received: from indyweb.cgocable.ca ([205.151.69.200]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Sgmf-0003az-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 14:50:40 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from 220-168.lr.cgocable.ca (220-168.lr.cgocable.ca [24.226.220.168]) by indyweb.cgocable.ca (8.9.3 (MessagingDirect 1.0.4)/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA10404638 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 09:47:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <200102131447.JAA10404638@indyweb.cgocable.ca> X-Sender: bill1@cgocable.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 09:47:56 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Bill de Carle" Subject: Re: LF: GPS-Disciplined BPSK Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 10:28 AM 2/12/01 +0000, Walter Blanchard wrote: >At 21:17 11/02/01 Sunday, VE2IQ wrote: > >>...............I propose to use GPS ..........: >>The only real requirement is a GPS receiver with a 1-PPS output good to >>within a few microseconds of UTC. > >Be careful - don't confuse relative with absolute time. The 1 pps output >from cheapo GPS sets is only relative time, not absolute. If you like, it >gives frequency not phase and phase is essential to your >application. Recovering absolute time from GPS to microsec accuracy is not >easy and you won't do it with an ordinary positioning receiver. I checked with Garmin on this and they're standing by their 1 microsecond spec. They suggest using the GPS25-LVS (which apparently has a mode where you can specify that the location is fixed and let it concentrate on calculating the time accurately) - and say that under good signal conditions the 1PPS output will track UTC "well within" the 1 microsecond limit. They say typical accuracy is 100 nsec RMS with 50 nsec jitter. That is more than good enough for our purposes. I still haven't sorted out what the difference is between absolute and relative time, but as long as everyone agrees on the same system it should work fine. Bill VE2IQ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19921 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 13:02:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 13:02:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 20366 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 13:02:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 13:02:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Sezl-00030U-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 12:55:49 +0000 Received: from [195.47.110.226] (helo=dell1.gmccz.cz.gmc.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Sezk-00030N-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 12:55:48 +0000 Received: from p (p.maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net [192.168.1.22]) by dell1.gmccz.cz.gmc.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id 150G1CPP; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 13:57:00 +0100 Message-ID: <002901c094f2$a655a100$1601a8c0@maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200102130721_MC2-C554-727E@compuserve.com> Subject: LF: Re: LF Chat Room Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 13:52:25 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: BTW does anybody here use ICQ? My ICQ # is 107175151. You can connect me during working days, I usually run ICQ client in stand-by mode when in office. Ready for live chat. 73 Petr OK1FiG ----- Original Message ----- From: Holger 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW To: Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 1:20 PM Subject: LF: LF Chat Room > Mike, G3XDV, wrote: > > >Having a really > >good way to get real-time feedback would be useful - perhaps a chat > >room? > > > .. again as a reminder: you are all invited to use the LF chat room that > is > on my homepage at > > http://www.qru.de/chat.htm > > It has been used for similar purposes coordinating QSOs before. > > Best 73 > > Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11782 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 12:30:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 12:30:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 18155 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 12:30:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 12:30:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SeT7-0002qq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 12:22:05 +0000 Received: from ds-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.134] helo=spdmgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SeT5-0002qk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 12:22:04 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id HAA27378 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 07:21:17 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 07:20:56 -0500 From: "Holger 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: LF Chat Room To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200102130721_MC2-C554-727E@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike, G3XDV, wrote: >Having a really >good way to get real-time feedback would be useful - perhaps a chat >room? .. again as a reminder: you are all invited to use the LF chat room that is on my homepage at http://www.qru.de/chat.htm It has been used for similar purposes coordinating QSOs before. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17717 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 12:09:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 12:09:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 3463 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 12:09:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 12:09:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Se8o-0002lc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 12:01:06 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Se8k-0002kP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 12:01:03 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:50:34 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:50:32 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Re: Transatlantic QRS speeds Message-ID: <3A891F88.10141.9002E1@localhost> In-reply-to: <3A89604A.F0092B04@ns.sympatico.ca> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > About QSO format. I have been operating EME for 11 years now . The > criterion for a qso has always been the TMO system plus appropriate > RRRs plus complete exchange of calls. I feel we should use the same > here as that procedure is Internationally recognized. To help speed > up the process one station could use 3 sec dots and the weaker one > could use what dot length was necessary Yes, that's what is done in Eu on QRSS, though of course it's only necessarily to exchange complete calls once. It would certainly help if optimum data transfer rates (dot length) were used at each end. I feel we are very close to a two-way, and it is still most likely at 3s dot speed for maximum use of a signal enhancement. Any chance of another visit to Jack before the Spring sets in? Having a really good way to get real-time feedback would be useful - perhaps a chat room? I melted another cable-tie insulator with last night's activity, so some better engineering coming up this weekend. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4104 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 11:36:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 11:36:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 27123 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 11:36:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 11:36:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Sdam-0002Wm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:25:56 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Sdaj-0002Wg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:25:53 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.87.190]) by jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 07:25:15 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A89604A.F0092B04@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 11:26:50 -0500 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: DFCW Transmission References: <000301c09529$ff5174a0$189a01d4@g4jnt> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I wasn't home last night saw nil. About QSO format. I have been operating EME for 11 years now . The criterion for a qso has always been the TMO system plus appropriate RRRs plus complete exchange of calls. I feel we should use the same here as that procedure is Internationally recognized. To help speed up the process one station could use 3 sec dots and the weaker one could use what dot length was necessary 73 de John VE1ZJ Andrew Talbot wrote: > If 350mW can be heard then there is a slight hope for me yet :-) > > At 1920z, just started transmitting transmitting a DFCW signal with 0.05Hz > shift and 90s dot period (for compatibility with Argo on its slowest > setting) on a centre frequency of 135921.50 Hz. ERP around 50mW. > > Transmission will continue at least until 0000z > > Andy G4JNT From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28459 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 09:59:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 09:59:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 22164 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 09:59:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 09:59:20 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Sc8D-0001xZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 09:52:21 +0000 Received: from ds-img-2.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.135] helo=spdmgaab.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Sc88-0001xT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 09:52:17 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id EAA16792 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 04:51:26 -0500 (EST) Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 04:50:46 -0500 From: "Holger 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Recent Transatlantic Sucesses To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200102130451_MC2-C561-42CD@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LF Group, having spend a week on the other side of the pond myself (however, without LF receiving capabilities) I was surprised to hear about all the recent successes on the transatlantic tests! Congratulations on all parties involved! The day when a complete QSO is succesful seems to be very close. I hope that the recent news also helped to speed up negotiations with the FCC on a US LF allocation! As soon as I have geared up my rig again I will try to participate (however, I am pretty old-fashioned ... I only have 1 Hz resolution with my current DDS ... however, there might be a solution, using my Hagenuk SSB Exciter, feeding it with an audio frequency generator capable of 1 mHz steps should work ... let us see ... any frequency slot in the TA window still unassigned? ...). Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10545 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 02:45:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 02:45:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 18649 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 02:44:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 02:44:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SVNo-0008OF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 02:40:00 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.61]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SVNn-0008OA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 02:39:59 +0000 Received: from 66-44-60-9.s9.tnt4.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.60.9] helo=nan-and-sandy) by smtp02.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.16 #5) id 14SVNX-0004Kf-00 ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 21:39:43 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 21:44:54 -0500 Message-ID: <01C0953D.092C0F40.esanders@erols.com> From: "Nan and Sandy Sanders" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: lf@amrad.org Subject: LF: Sun night report Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 21:44:50 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Saw CT1DRP starting about 23:00 Sun until about 01:45 Mon very strong peak "1DRP". ARGO smeared the elements together then gone until 02:20 it came back 1 HZ higher in frequency until 07:40 with very strong peaks and fades. I also saw several lines that I could not pull call signs out of except G3LDO from 04:00 until 06:54 with peaks and fades. Sandy WB5MMB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26216 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 02:22:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 02:22:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 11953 invoked from network); 13 Feb 2001 02:22:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 13 Feb 2001 02:22:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SUxP-0008J0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 02:12:43 +0000 Received: from mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SUxN-0008Iv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 02:12:42 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.178.173]) by mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010213021154.FEIZ6484737.mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 15:11:54 +1300 Message-ID: <003201c09563$325b0260$09b51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <00a901c09547$94d9eb20$4f6297d4@oemcomputer> Subject: LF: Re: VA3LK's dot length? Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 14:43:53 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Johan SM6LKM, >What dot length is Larry using? Larry advised me to use 60 second dot setting. I'll be trying with Argo to look for Larry when he is next transmitting. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22716 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 23:10:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 23:10:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 1656 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 23:10:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 23:10:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SRxS-0007II-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 23:00:34 +0000 Received: from fep04.swip.net ([130.244.199.132] helo=fep04-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SRxP-0007HZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 23:00:31 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.25.20]) by fep04-svc.swip.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with SMTP id <20010212225915.EOXC6568.fep04-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 23:59:15 +0100 Message-ID: <00a901c09547$94d9eb20$4f6297d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: VA3LK's dot length? Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 23:59:47 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi dear All, I am seeing a faint broken line on 137.789.5 +/- 0.1Hz right now (using Argo set for 60s dots). What dot length is Larry using? 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22001 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 21:07:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 21:07:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 10246 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 21:07:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 21:07:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SQ4n-0006i3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 21:00:01 +0000 Received: from mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SQ4i-0006hl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 20:59:57 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.181.33]) by mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010212205909.BLTR6484737.mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 09:59:09 +1300 Message-ID: <008e01c09537$81808f80$08b51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010212090705.00a69aa0@mail.pncl.co.uk> <3A87DD0F.AAF4D15E@virgin.net> Subject: Re: LF: GPS-Disciplined BPSK Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 09:34:16 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: "Stewart Bryant" To: Sent: Tuesday, February 13, 2001 1:54 AM Subject: Re: LF: GPS-Disciplined BPSK > > Why not use the signal from one of the LF time clocks, and > correct by offsetting the distance. That assumes there is available coverage from a terrestrial transmitter with time information. GPS is genuinely global. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17579 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 20:15:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 20:15:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 27098 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 20:15:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 20:15:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SPHY-0006Qu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 20:09:08 +0000 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SPHU-0006Qp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 20:09:04 +0000 Received: from steve (ppp148.dyn154.pacific.net.au [210.23.154.148]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.9.3/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA04781 for ; Tue, 13 Feb 2001 07:08:44 +1100 Message-ID: <003401c09530$2dd24e20$0301a8c0@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <14146.200102121727@gemini> Subject: LF: Re: Time & Frequency & so on Date: Tue, 13 Feb 2001 07:12:40 +1100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G'day LF Group, I tend to agree with Jim on the complexity proposed. My thoughts are that the question of accuracy/stability boil down to the following:- 1. TX - It doesn't matter what frequency (QRM dodging aside) the TX is on as long as it is known accurately ( 177.540675Hz is as good as 177.500Hz as far as a receiver is concerned) and it stays there so people know where it is. 2. RX - It is important that the error in the frequency reference is known so that you can translate the known TX to where it will appear in the passband of your receiver. These days that means knowing the accuracy of your receiver frequency reference to about +/-1Hz or better to allow you to net the TX on, say, the 120 sec/dot screen of Argo. All this can be done reasonably easily. I have an FRG-100 equiped with a standard assessory TCXO whose accuracy is quoted as +/-2ppm over the range -10 to +50 C. Taking normal shack temperatures here that translates to better than +/- 0.5Hz at LF. I wouldn't call that high-tech. I use a local time/frequency station on 2.5MHz (VNG) in AM mode to firstly calibrate the soundcard on the 1000Hz standard-locked second pips. Then I use CW mode (with BFO offset 600Hz) to calibrate the receiver. This I convert to the LF (ppm error at LF is the same as ppm error at 2.5MHz) absolute error. This has been made all the more easier by Alberto's excellent Argo program which allows calibration values to be entered and saved under different names which allows different receivers' calibrations to be entered. Using Argo and the method I have no trouble switching on my receiver and dialing up, say, 60kHz with my 10Hz step FRG-100 and switching straight to 120 sec/dot mode and bang, there is the 60kHz signal right in the middle of the screen. For my FDK beacon project I have sent away for some PTC thermistors that are used in Lyle's (K0LR) clever idea for stabilising temperature of the TCXO. I bought another TCXO especially for the beacon from Yaesu (only $88 in Australian pesos - so about $50 dollars US or less). I find it bemusing to hear me do a "whoa" on super-fine frequency steps as about 2 years ago I was lamenting loudly that there was no-one with the accuracy/stability to take up some of the narrowband modes I was pushing then (FDK and AFK). I guess we all draw the line in the sand where it sits most comfortable with our present situation. I would say though, given the history of these things, as we are experimenting we will keep pushing the boundaries of the propagation medium (and our own patience) to go for ever longer integration times - even with the arguments about real QSOs etc. Larry's frequency micro-steps may possibly become a "requirement" at some stage. Who knows for sure ? 73s Steve Olney (VK2ZTO/AXSO - QF56IK : Lat -33 34 07, Long +150 44 40) ============================================= HomePage URLs: http://www.qsl.net/vk2zto http://www.zeta.org.au/~ollaneg Containing:- ULF, ELF, VLF & LF Experimentation InfraSonic Experimentation Laser Comms DX Amateur Radio Astronomy ============================================= From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8815 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 19:38:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 19:38:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 2663 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 19:38:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 19:38:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SOic-0006ED-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:33:02 +0000 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SOiZ-0006E6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:33:00 +0000 Received: from [212.1.154.24] (helo=g4jnt) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SOVH-0004Kc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:19:16 +0000 Message-ID: <000301c09529$ff5174a0$189a01d4@g4jnt> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: DFCW Transmission Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:27:58 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: If 350mW can be heard then there is a slight hope for me yet :-) At 1920z, just started transmitting transmitting a DFCW signal with 0.05Hz shift and 90s dot period (for compatibility with Argo on its slowest setting) on a centre frequency of 135921.50 Hz. ERP around 50mW. Transmission will continue at least until 0000z Andy G4JNT From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26435 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 19:35:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 19:35:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 24403 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 19:35:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 19:35:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SOf7-0006D5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:29:25 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [194.200.20.13] (helo=mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SOf6-0006D0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:29:24 +0000 Received: from userba83.netscapeonline.co.uk ([62.125.138.118] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 14SOac-00063J-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:24:50 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A8837E4.CB5F3A7E@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:22:12 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: ARRL News Story, an objection References: <125490A005E3D3118C9C00805FC743CC01BA0A6F@KAHLESS> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: "Lindquist, Rick, N1RL" wrote: > Hi, Larry and others > > Since *our* "ox is being gored" (please note the spelling of the word--it's > "gored"; I'll assume that you typoed it, just as I did in one instance of > two of your call sign in our Web story), I feel a few words from our corner > are in order. > > The information about the AMRAD beacon's being heard by G4CNN was attributed > to John Sexton, G4CNN. The ARRL did not make up this information, nor did we > have any particular stake in it. Lacking immediate capability to verify his > reception to a certainty, we simply recounted his report and attributed it > to him, as we've done in many similar instances in the past. We now have new > information that G4CNN was mistaken. We will revise our account to include > the fact that the earlier information unfortunately turned out to be in > error--an honest mistake, as it were. > > Are there any other "facts" that you would like to dispute? Please get in > touch. Also, feel free to share any of the "number of emails highly critical > of the League" that you have received. > > Mike, Andre shared an e-mail that mentioned some inaccuracies, and I also > did not catch the typo from an e-mail I received (VE1ZZ instead of VE1ZJ). > We've fixed that one too. Our apologies for the inadvertent call sign > errors. > > The quality of our reporting is only as good as the information we get, an > occasional inadvertent error or misunderstanding nothwithstanding, of > course. We'd like to be as accurate as possible. > > Oh, and the word is "whose" (as in "whose ox"), not "who's". Another typo, I > guess. Well, we humans all make mistakes now and then, don't we? > > Assuming we're all on the same side here, I hope we can report future LF > achievements, and if errors creep into our reporting, understand that they > are unintentional; please let me know directly, and we'll be happy to fix > them. Rick om. You are forgetting that English for some is their Second or Third language and not their native tongue.What is your Irish, Arabic, Dutch or French like ? but to mention a few. It looks like G4CNN got you into this mess hi !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Be careful in future to check with a third party for proof before publishing. I think QST is a good publication and on par with the Japanese CQ magazine. 73 magazine was good and produced by the Leagues friend Wayne Green !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its a good job he is not about at the moment !!!!!!! 73 de Mal/G3KEV > > > 73, Rick N1RL > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Rick Lindquist, N1RL > Senior News Editor > ARRL--The National Association for Amateur Radio > 860-594-0222 > n1rl@arrl.org > See Late-Breaking Amateur Radio News at http://www.arrl.org/ > Read Amateur Radio News in The ARRL Letter at > http://www.arrl.org/arrlletter > Hear Amateur Radio News on ARRL Audio News at > http://www.arrl.org/arrlletter/audio/ > (or call 860-594-0384) > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Larry Kayser [mailto:kayser@sympatico.ca] > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 9:08 AM > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; : "Andre' Kesteloot"; "Mike Dennison"; > n1rl@arrl.org > Subject: Re: LF: ARRL News Story, an objection > > Gentlemen: > > I am not impressed, then again it is my call that is wrong not yours. I > guess it depends who's ox is getting goared. Frankly, having now received a > number of emails highly critical of the League I am of the opinion that no > news at all is much better than news that is incorrect factually. > > Larry > VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5051 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 19:35:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 19:35:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 23880 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 19:35:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 19:35:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SOew-0006Cy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:29:14 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [194.200.20.13] (helo=mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SOev-0006Ct-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:29:14 +0000 Received: from userba83.netscapeonline.co.uk ([62.125.138.118] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 14SOaU-00062M-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:24:39 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A8836DD.D0C6C44A@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:17:49 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: ARRL News Story References: <3A83E830.5192.C534B3@localhost> <005d01c092d6$8b7dada0$aab21bca@xtr743187> <006501c09419$d4c8da40$8d6968d5@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: "mike.dennison" wrote: > ZL2CA wrote: > > I do not agree with your glossing over error-rate in articles: > > > Editorial errors give the publisher a bad image with knowledgeable > readers. > > Getting it right the first time takes a lot of beating. > > I agree entirely that 100% accuracy should always be the aim, and I believe > that RadCom and QST both have a high hit rate, but the point I was making > was that a story with some errors in it will still do more good for the LF > fraternity than no story at all. Where did you get that idea from??? So misleading and wrong information is better than no information at all !!!!!!!!!!!! What a lot of rubbish. Is it any wonder that less than half the UK licensed radio amateurs are not members of the RSGB with an attitude like that. Representatives of societies must act responsibly and show leadership at all times. G3KEV > > > 37 > > Moke, X3GDV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27737 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 19:29:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 19:29:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 13433 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 19:28:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 19:28:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SOXA-000693-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:21:12 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [194.200.20.13] (helo=mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SOX9-00068y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:21:11 +0000 Received: from userap89.netscapeonline.co.uk ([62.125.134.51] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 14SOSc-0005k8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:16:33 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A8836AA.4BEE2DFD@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:16:58 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: ARRL News Story, an objection References: <125490A005E3D3118C9C00805FC743CC01BA0A6F@KAHLESS> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: "Lindquist, Rick, N1RL" wrote: > Hi, Larry and others > > Since *our* "ox is being gored" (please note the spelling of the word--it's > "gored"; I'll assume that you typoed it, just as I did in one instance of > two of your call sign in our Web story), I feel a few words from our corner > are in order. > > The information about the AMRAD beacon's being heard by G4CNN was attributed > to John Sexton, G4CNN. The ARRL did not make up this information, nor did we > have any particular stake in it. Lacking immediate capability to verify his > reception to a certainty, we simply recounted his report and attributed it > to him, as we've done in many similar instances in the past. We now have new > information that G4CNN was mistaken. We will revise our account to include > the fact that the earlier information unfortunately turned out to be in > error--an honest mistake, as it were. > > Are there any other "facts" that you would like to dispute? Please get in > touch. Also, feel free to share any of the "number of emails highly critical > of the League" that you have received. > > Mike, Andre shared an e-mail that mentioned some inaccuracies, and I also > did not catch the typo from an e-mail I received (VE1ZZ instead of VE1ZJ). > We've fixed that one too. Our apologies for the inadvertent call sign > errors. > > The quality of our reporting is only as good as the information we get, an > occasional inadvertent error or misunderstanding nothwithstanding, of > course. We'd like to be as accurate as possible. > > Oh, and the word is "whose" (as in "whose ox"), not "who's". Another typo, I > guess. Well, we humans all make mistakes now and then, don't we? > > Assuming we're all on the same side here, I hope we can report future LF > achievements, and if errors creep into our reporting, understand that they > are unintentional; please let me know directly, and we'll be happy to fix > them. Rick om. You are forgetting that English for some is their Second or Third language and not their native tongue.What is your Irish, Arabic, Dutch or French like ? but to mention a few. It looks like G4CNN got you into this mess hi !!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Be careful in future to check with a third party for proof before publishing. I think QST is a good publication and on par with the Japanese CQ magazine. 73 magazine was good and produced by the Leagues friend Wayne Green !!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! Its a good job he is not about at the moment !!!!!!! 73 de Mal/G3KEV > > > 73, Rick N1RL > > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > Rick Lindquist, N1RL > Senior News Editor > ARRL--The National Association for Amateur Radio > 860-594-0222 > n1rl@arrl.org > See Late-Breaking Amateur Radio News at http://www.arrl.org/ > Read Amateur Radio News in The ARRL Letter at > http://www.arrl.org/arrlletter > Hear Amateur Radio News on ARRL Audio News at > http://www.arrl.org/arrlletter/audio/ > (or call 860-594-0384) > ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ > > -----Original Message----- > From: Larry Kayser [mailto:kayser@sympatico.ca] > Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 9:08 AM > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; : "Andre' Kesteloot"; "Mike Dennison"; > n1rl@arrl.org > Subject: Re: LF: ARRL News Story, an objection > > Gentlemen: > > I am not impressed, then again it is my call that is wrong not yours. I > guess it depends who's ox is getting goared. Frankly, having now received a > number of emails highly critical of the League I am of the opinion that no > news at all is much better than news that is incorrect factually. > > Larry > VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20715 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 19:28:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 19:28:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 17095 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 19:28:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 19:28:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SOYI-00069F-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:22:22 +0000 Received: from [62.209.144.6] (helo=sniffout.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SOYH-00069A-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:22:21 +0000 Received: from picks ([62.209.134.89]) by sniffout.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.977.9); Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:22:05 +0000 Message-ID: <003101c09529$3e284c40$5986d13e@f9.net.uk> From: "Dave Pick" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Scans from last night. Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 19:23:12 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all. John and Jon's scans from last night are up at http://www.wireless.org.uk/newspic50.htm If Dexter would like to send me his I'll add them later. Very impressive signals from CT1DRP! 73. Dave G3YXM. dave@wireless.org.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7374 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 18:29:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 18:29:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 12088 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 18:29:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 18:29:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SNY7-0005mv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:18:07 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.176] (helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SNY2-0005mo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:18:03 +0000 Received: from [213.122.15.202] (helo=default) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14SNXi-0001Is-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 18:17:42 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c0951f$bdfa5bc0$ca0f7ad5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots for 10/11th Feb at GB7DXM Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 12:30:17 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, no listening here this weekend, other priorities prevailed. But there are a number of interesting calls that appeared on the Cluster. CFH reappeared last night on just a sub-carrier, but this could herald its return to operation, if the other installation work is now complete. Daily plots will be forwarded to Rik for inclusion on his web site. If anyone actively involved in transatlantic experiments wishes to have a personal copy of the plot, I can include your address on my distribution list. The plots are sent as Mono (Black on white ) GIF file attachments, and normally are about 6 to 8kbytes in size. No input to the cluster has been seen from Jack VE1ZZ since about the 26th Jan. He was inviting cross-band responses on 1837kHz at that time. Cluster spots follow:- 136.5 OK1DTN 11-Feb-2001 1819Z 136.6 IK5ZPV 11-Feb-2001 1734Z 599+ 136.6 OK1DTN 11-Feb-2001 1736Z with om2tw this really freq. 137.1 OK1DTN 11-Feb-2001 1732Z /om2tw 137.1 OK1DTN 11-Feb-2001 1713Z 137.7 G3XDV 11-Feb-2001 1039Z DFCW 136.4 DJ7RD 11-Feb-2001 1021Z and clg for him dj1zb 136.5 IK5ZPV 11-Feb-2001 1015Z 439 qso with dj9ie 549 136.9 DK6NI 11-Feb-2001 0935Z 559 cq 136.4 DJ7RD 11-Feb-2001 0934Z 599 cq 137.7 SLOW/CW 11-Feb-2001 0727Z ? Slovakia. 136.6 DJ9IE 10-Feb-2001 1251Z 559 cq 136.5 G6RO 10-Feb-2001 1134Z clg, sri bad QRN today 137.5 OE5ODL 10-Feb-2001 1038Z 559 in CW qso dj2lf 136.4 DF0WD 9-Feb-2001 1927Z 549 calling GW4ALG 136.4 GW4ALG 9-Feb-2001 1926Z 539 Calling CQ 136.3 GW4ALG 9-Feb-2001 1921Z 559 in JO42 fb 136.1 M0BMU 8-Feb-2001 2215Z LOUD 137.0 I5TGC 8-Feb-2001 1702Z 579/579 jn65/jn53 137.1 S57A 8-Feb-2001 1336Z CQ...559 IN JN65WS G3NYK de GB7MRS 12-Feb-2001 1219Z > Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26503 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 17:35:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 17:35:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 22687 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 17:35:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 17:35:05 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SMlS-0005Z6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:27:50 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SMlQ-0005Z0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:27:48 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14SMl7-0001Pc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:27:29 +0000 Message-ID: <14146.200102121727@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:31:39 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Time & Frequency & so on X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Re - the discussion of GPS derrived timing, DDS frequency sources, etc. It seems to me that increasing layers of complexity being proposed could do with some review before rushing headlong at them. There would appear to be little point in increasing the tuning resolution of signal sources much beyond the bandwidths occupied by the signals. So, for the very slow QRSS and similar modes, the bandwidth can't be much less than perhaps 10 millihertz because the propagation "lifts" do not last long enough to transmit a usable amount of data. The recent trans-atlantic tests seem to indicate that being able to vary frequency in 0.1Hz steps is adequate for dodging the QRM. A mode like BPSK requires absolute frequency errors to be much smaller than it's bandwidth, but again there would seem to be little point in being able to change the transmit frequency in very small increments, since this would just make it harder for the receiving station to find the correct frequency. Something that has become more noticeable lately is the limitations of frequency stability in current equipment. Many people currently are getting away with simple crystal oscillators, which certainly work OK for most things, but are probably now at their limits for stability for further development. So designs using DDS or otherwise obviously need to consider how a stable frequency reference can be incorporated from the outset, if high resolution is to be worth bothering with. If your DDS has a clock frequency of 25MHz, it will tune in different steps to one with a clock at 30MHz, and so there will always be a certain amount of error, even if perfectly stable. Also, thought has to be given as to how to use better reference oscillators with all the other equipment that is used for transmit and receive, such as amateur band tranceivers, DSP devices and so on. In principle, it is easy and most satisfactory to use a single reference oscillator for all the equipment that requires good frequency accuracy - but in practice, that is quite difficult to implement with most of the equipment currently in use. It seems to me that once a high stability frequency reference has been obtained, a clock of quite impressive accuracy is also available. A reference of 0.1ppm stability would make a clock that gains or loses 1ms maximum in 2.8hours, which would probably be small compared to other errors - the only slightly tricky thing is setting it. But since you have to cope with a somewhat variable offset for the time delay between two stations, this does not seem to be a big deal. Relying on the "compatibility" of equipment seems to be a bad idea - witness the problems running certain software with certain soundcards, and niggling frequency errors. I suppose one way round this would be for someone to by up a large batch of identical sound cards for distribution around the LF community, but does anyone really want to do this, and anyway, what would happen in 6 months time when the stock ran out, or for some reason that soundcard was found unsuitable or obsolete? Similar things can probably be said of GPS receivers. In any case, building up a system that relies on everybody using identical equipment to do the same thing seems to take all the fun out of it. I await new ideas with interest! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16884 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 17:28:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 17:28:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 13789 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 17:28:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 17:28:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SMev-0005Uz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:21:05 +0000 Received: from mail2.globocabo.com.br ([200.231.181.97] helo=ntweb.globocabo.com.br) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SMei-0005UV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:20:54 +0000 Received: from spovdesi1625 (SPOVD-ESI-1625 [5.8.14.13]) by ntweb.globocabo.com.br with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id 1Z4P7AZB; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:22:59 -0300 Message-ID: <004501c09520$8ee8fde0$0d0e0805@globocabo.com.br> From: "PY3CRX PY2PLL" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Accuracy Limits Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:20:47 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------070500010905060603090309" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070500010905060603090309 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
I "borrowed" this from NIST site. Hope that's useful.
73
Marcus
PY3CRX/PY2PLL
S. B. do Campo - GG66rf
http://py.qsl.br
Active from "DC" to 24GHz
 

 
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eU50JGZkUAd7jAXGxnY52vwTsvjym684/oFGrn3tr5ZGTT/1VX/1Wb/1Be0w8yhNjIc1pId0 Uqcz1Gd3BPwxeC4gtdr1gZ8k5sW1vUsa86m1EhAmsKT0g3/b+Y2NwmORGS6xyoviApD+epv6 fU6Ys7H5vR+vWelzisWJkmyyJ7F/KuDZrIvOjUpVDvv74f8oJvVVKgFCJiJTFDgA5f/4c/pe AOKfwH9Bfgw8iDChwoUMGzp8CDGixIkUK1q8iDGjxo0cO3r8CDKkyJEkS4r8xvBbLWsmW7p8 CTOmzJk0a9q8iTOnzp08e/r8CZQngCmhRIsaPYo0qdKlTJs6fQo1qtSpVKtavYo1q9atXLt6 /Qo2rNixZJcGBAA7 --------------070500010905060603090309-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24227 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 17:21:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 17:21:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 6044 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 17:21:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 17:21:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SMZr-0005U6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:15:51 +0000 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SMZn-0005U1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:15:47 +0000 Received: from [212.1.137.147] (helo=g4jnt) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SMQP-0008JR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:06:05 +0000 Message-ID: <000a01c09517$64913c00$938901d4@g4jnt> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: GPS-Disciplined BPSK Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 17:15:25 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The GPS25 module - one of those recommended by TAPR for the "GPS Disciplined Frequency Standard" - is specified as having a 1 PPS output accurate to within 1 microsecond of UTC. Additionally, it is supposed to be possible to lock in the exact location giving a further improvement in timing, but this does not appear to be documented in the notes that came with mine. Does anyone have this info ? Andy G4JNT -----Original Message----- From: Walter Blanchard To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 12 February 2001 10:55 Subject: Re: LF: GPS-Disciplined BPSK >At 21:17 11/02/01 Sunday, VE2IQ wrote: > >>...............I propose to use GPS ..........: >>The only real requirement is a GPS receiver with a 1-PPS output good to >>within a few microseconds of UTC. > >Be careful - don't confuse relative with absolute time. The 1 pps output >from cheapo GPS sets is only relative time, not absolute. If you like, it >gives frequency not phase and phase is essential to your >application. Recovering absolute time from GPS to microsec accuracy is not >easy and you won't do it with an ordinary positioning receiver. My company >used to make a lot of money out of selling specialist GPS timing receivers >designed purely to recover absolute time - they cost about ten times as >much as ordinary sets! Your basic idea is right but do you really need >microsecs? Would millisecs do? If so it becomes a lot easier although I >still wouldn't advise using the 1 pps. BTW you don't have to work out how >many seconds from the start of week - the GPS message has what's called a >Z-count which is exactly that - the number of seconds into the week >starting at midnight Sunday UTC. >If you can get the right data outputs from the receiver (some of the >slightly more expensive receivers give them) what about this : >Using only one satellite - pull out the Z-count (in the message); the delay >between satellite and you (from measured pseudo-range); the UTC offset for >that satellite (in the message). Apply the transit delay to the UTC offset >and label it with the Z-count. This will be a near approximation to >absolute UTC that might do for your purpose. It only relies on the >receiver's internal timing for a few millisecs while it gets the >pseudorange although unavoidably it is still contaminated with software >functions and timing. Can't be done with a cheapo because it won't let you >into the fundamental GPS data message. NMEA data outputs are irrelevant and >unusable for this purpose. Of course, there's a bit of external programming >involved to manipulate the numbers. I haven't looked at this method in any >detail to see where the snags are but if it looks a runner I'll do a bit >more work on it. > >Walter G3JKV. > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16191 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 16:54:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 16:54:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 4155 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 16:54:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 16:54:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SM4l-0005Jk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 16:43:43 +0000 Received: from imo-r14.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.68]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SM4k-0005Je-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 16:43:42 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-r14.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.b1.705f4c4 (17530) for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 11:42:45 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 11:42:45 EST Subject: Re: LF: DDS Frequency setting requirement To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 2/11/01 9:02:45 PM Eastern Standard Time, kayser@sympatico.ca writes: << There are just over 143 steps of 6.98 MilliHz in a single Hz, this will let us move in tighter for intercontinental work at 60 second bits and higher. We should be able to have between 7 and 10 stations in a single Hz. >> At last. A practical use for all those pesky cesium beam standards we have lying about the house...? From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10986 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 14:54:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 14:54:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 27677 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 14:54:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 14:54:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SKFe-0004h6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:46:50 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SKFd-0004gy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:46:49 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.6.62]) by jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:46:23 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A886B25.7554C771@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:00:54 -0800 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: DDS Frequency setting requirement References: <3A87D5BC.3808.4FD5B5@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Mike good words john VE1ZJ Mike Dennison wrote: > > > > .......................I suggest the time has come to make > > this a requirement for all of us experimenting on LF. > > Comments etc. > > Larry > > VA3LK > > I am sure you meant to say recommendation. As soon as we make > something a requirement, I am out of here. > > Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) > http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4569 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 14:49:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 14:49:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 3548 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 14:49:15 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 14:49:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SKCW-0004ga-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:43:36 +0000 Received: from indyweb.cgocable.ca ([205.151.69.200]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SKCT-0004gV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:43:34 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from 220-140.lr.cgocable.ca (220-140.lr.cgocable.ca [24.226.220.140]) by indyweb.cgocable.ca (8.9.3 (MessagingDirect 1.0.4)/8.9.3) with SMTP id JAA10083379 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 09:43:17 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <200102121443.JAA10083379@indyweb.cgocable.ca> X-Sender: bill1@cgocable.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 09:43:22 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Bill de Carle" Subject: Re: LF: GPS-Disciplined BPSK Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 10:28 AM 2/12/01 +0000, Walter Blanchard wrote: >At 21:17 11/02/01 Sunday, VE2IQ wrote: > >>...............I propose to use GPS ..........: >>The only real requirement is a GPS receiver with a 1-PPS output good to >>within a few microseconds of UTC. > >Be careful - don't confuse relative with absolute time. The 1 pps output >from cheapo GPS sets is only relative time, not absolute. If you like, it >gives frequency not phase and phase is essential to your >application. Recovering absolute time from GPS to microsec accuracy is not >easy and you won't do it with an ordinary positioning receiver. Well, isn't that a bummer! I had assumed that Garmin's specification of 1 microsecond meant that the 1 PPS output was within 1 microsecond of UTC. We don't really need microsecond accuracy. Within one millisecond would be good enough. But now I'm very curious about this. What is the difference between relative time and absolute time? If all GPS receivers output their 1 PPS at "relative" time then the system will work just fine. It doesn't matter what time it is absolutely, only that everyone agrees on what time it is. Bill VE2IQ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21463 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 14:39:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 14:39:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 2783 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 14:39:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 14:39:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SK2X-0004bp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:33:17 +0000 Received: from mail2.dada.it ([195.110.96.69] helo=mail.dada.it) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SK2W-0004bk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:33:16 +0000 Received: (qmail 22212 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 14:32:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cestag) (195.110.103.21) by mail.dada.it with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 14:32:55 -0000 Message-ID: <004201c09500$9d45a660$15676ec3@cestag> From: "cesare tagliabue" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: R: DL7YA QRA locator ? Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 15:32:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Rich From a Callbook of 1995 I find DL7YA living in Berlin, hope he is always there !! 73 Cesare Cesare Tagliabue I 5 TGC WW-Loc JN53PS e-mail: cestag@dada.it url: http://www.dadacasa.com/i5tgc -----Messaggio originale----- Da: Gasparik Richard A: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Data: lunede 12 febbraio 2001 12.04 Oggetto: LF: DL7YA QRA locator ? >Hi LF-ers... > > I worked DL7YA on QRSS and I need his QRA locator. Anybody knows ? > >73 de Rich OM2TW > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19619 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 14:22:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 14:22:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 21654 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 14:25:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 14:25:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SJp7-0004Wb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:19:25 +0000 Received: from mail2.globocabo.com.br ([200.231.181.97] helo=ntweb.globocabo.com.br) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SJoy-0004WU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:19:23 +0000 Received: from spovdesi1625 (SPOVD-ESI-1625 [5.8.14.13]) by ntweb.globocabo.com.br with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id 1Z4P678N; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 12:21:37 -0300 Message-ID: <004401c09507$38893640$0d0e0805@globocabo.com.br> From: "PY3CRX PY2PLL" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010212090705.00a69aa0@mail.pncl.co.uk> <3A87DD0F.AAF4D15E@virgin.net> Subject: Re: LF: GPS-Disciplined BPSK Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 12:19:33 -0300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > This would seem to need much less engineering than > processing the output of a GPS. > > Stewart G3YSX I can detect 60KHz from WWVB, but useless to lock anything ... so ... I use a Furuno OEM module, that has only 1pps + NMEA outputs. But the 1pps is good enough to lock a DSP56002EVM board to G3PLX chirp sounder monitoring project. Around the world RF trip is 55 ... 60 ms maximum + multipath variations. For a 24h period, for example, the Cyprus transmitter or Inskip transmitter are plotted from here within 100 miles. This Furuno GPS is a 8 in view class but a cheap module. Other participants uses other brands/cheap, common ones too (Garmin, Oncore, etc). Seems that even having something like 100ns tolerance on 1pps pulses (my case) this will not be enough to match phase because the propagation delay from my place to England is +/- 24ms, to Greece +/- 36ms, and so on. May be if we schedule the contacts we can enter lat/log data somewhere to "predict" the prop. time delay. For a simple application like QRSS, if a station matches its dots/traces to a 1pps pulses will be a must. At least I'll know on what time slot I can find a signal. And in this case some ms will not be important on a 60 second dot :o). Sorry to mixed those subjects but it's part of my efforts to catch some signal from above the Equator. This weekend I locked a 100KHz oscilator to the 1pps pulse. This locking process took more than one hour :o) BTW, a question about GPSs: what signals fequencies can I expect to find inside a "sample" GPS module? Some have 5 / 10 MHz outputs besides 1pps. Others have 2048 / 1554 to EU/US data networks. But there's no guarantee that this signals are locked to GPS constelation. So is there any clock that run free on a "none-in-view" condition and locked otherwise? On mine I found 16.6666MHz (seems the internal clock oscilator), 11.605MHz (free or locked???) and 1KHz on some testpoints. I'll be happy if one of this frequencies are locked to the source :o/ NIST has some material about GPS X NIST traceable specs ... 73 Marcus PY3CRX/PY2PLL S. B. do Campo - GG66rf http://py.qsl.br Active from "DC" to 24GHz From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13060 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 14:10:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 14:10:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 12855 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 14:10:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 14:10:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SJZd-0004Rq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:03:25 +0000 Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SJZb-0004Ri-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 14:03:23 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.df.103f1961 (3873) for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 09:02:27 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 09:02:27 EST Subject: Re: LF: Very large adaptive rx array To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 70 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Paul, Nick, thank you for your interesting and helpful comments. > In VLBI a very high stability frequency standard (hydrogen masers > etc.) is used as a phase reference on each receiving station and these > timing signal is inserted on the same tape as the received signal. > ... > A low cost amateur solution could be to record a commonly received > signal such as Loran-C, MSF, GPS etc. on the other channel of the > sound card, while the actual DX-LF signal is recorded on the other > channel. Yes, I thought about using an adjacent signal like DBF39 in the same channel. After some prefiltering, one might then use squarelaw-detection to get the audio heterodyne, pushing aside all receiver stability issues. You would end up with something like optical holography, where the reference wave is distributed over the air as well. But, as you say, this wouldn't solve the difficult part: > With an array spread over 2000 km, would in theory produce a beam > width of a few arc minutes. However, since the propagation > characteristics are not stable on LF (compared to empty space), such > narrow beams would be more or less useless. I agree its hopeless to geometrically calculate absolute phase differences over the array. But thats where the adaptiveness comes into play: Using the carrier itself as a reference, the pattern will focus on the source by itself, thats the heart of the idea. It would even follow changes in the ionospheric waveform distortions, as long as these are not faster than the 300 s timescale. An analogy would be a guide star in the field of view of an adaptive-optics telescope. > ... using low cost generally available > hardware and software (which is an absolute requirement for any > coordinated effort between several hams :-). Well most of us already have all we need: An LF receiver, connected to a PC with soundcard and internet. As a lot of dynamic range is gained in the FFT, the ADC requirements will be no different from standard qrss reception with Argo or Spectrogram. The receiver has to be stable enough for 3 mHz resolution which means a drift rate better than 10^-8 / 5min, not too hard for a good xtal oscillator. It may be advisable to do some data reduction on the audio data before sending them to the common processor. The filtering-and-decimation technique used for the speedup of qrss could result in data rates of a couple of bytes/s per receiver. Then we could even replace the offline internet connection by 100 quasi-realtime shortwave links, a la PSK 31 or using 10 Hz bandwidth analog FM ... > Looking at submarine sonar techniques and producing an analogue for radio > would also be very useful. Yes I'd like to read more about that. Could you point out some (unclassified) references or URLs? 73 de Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23551 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 13:06:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 13:06:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 3436 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 13:06:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 13:06:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SIYG-00046Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 12:57:56 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jaws.cisco.com ([198.135.0.150] helo=cisco.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SIYE-00046S-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 12:57:54 +0000 Received: from virgin.net (stbryant-isdn-home.cisco.com [10.49.137.202]) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA27383 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 12:57:03 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A87DD0F.AAF4D15E@virgin.net> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 12:54:40 +0000 From: "Stewart Bryant" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Windows NT 5.0; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: GPS-Disciplined BPSK References: <5.0.2.1.2.20010212090705.00a69aa0@mail.pncl.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Why not use the signal from one of the LF time clocks, and correct by offsetting the distance. Since this is being used for LF transmission, the communications system must be propagation phase change resistant, and timing from an LF source will make the phase error order of 2 worse that it might otherwise have been. This would seem to need much less engineering than processing the output of a GPS. Stewart G3YSX Walter Blanchard wrote: > At 21:17 11/02/01 Sunday, VE2IQ wrote: > > >...............I propose to use GPS ..........: > >The only real requirement is a GPS receiver with a 1-PPS output good to > >within a few microseconds of UTC. > > Be careful - don't confuse relative with absolute time. The 1 pps output > from cheapo GPS sets is only relative time, not absolute. If you like, it > gives frequency not phase and phase is essential to your > application. Recovering absolute time from GPS to microsec accuracy is not > easy and you won't do it with an ordinary positioning receiver. My company > used to make a lot of money out of selling specialist GPS timing receivers > designed purely to recover absolute time - they cost about ten times as > much as ordinary sets! Your basic idea is right but do you really need > microsecs? Would millisecs do? If so it becomes a lot easier although I > still wouldn't advise using the 1 pps. BTW you don't have to work out how > many seconds from the start of week - the GPS message has what's called a > Z-count which is exactly that - the number of seconds into the week > starting at midnight Sunday UTC. > If you can get the right data outputs from the receiver (some of the > slightly more expensive receivers give them) what about this : > Using only one satellite - pull out the Z-count (in the message); the delay > between satellite and you (from measured pseudo-range); the UTC offset for > that satellite (in the message). Apply the transit delay to the UTC offset > and label it with the Z-count. This will be a near approximation to > absolute UTC that might do for your purpose. It only relies on the > receiver's internal timing for a few millisecs while it gets the > pseudorange although unavoidably it is still contaminated with software > functions and timing. Can't be done with a cheapo because it won't let you > into the fundamental GPS data message. NMEA data outputs are irrelevant and > unusable for this purpose. Of course, there's a bit of external programming > involved to manipulate the numbers. I haven't looked at this method in any > detail to see where the snags are but if it looks a runner I'll do a bit > more work on it. > > Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28576 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 13:01:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 13:01:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 25618 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 13:01:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 13:01:32 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SIS7-00042w-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 12:51:35 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SIS5-00042r-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 12:51:33 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.90.102]) by jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 08:51:14 -0400 Message-ID: <3A8822F1.1984E266@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 12:52:49 -0500 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: lf tests last night Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all received at various times "O" copy from CT1DRP, G3AQC , G3XTZ , and G3LDO screen shots to Dave @ Picks 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10562 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 12:32:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 12:32:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 24277 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 12:35:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 12:35:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SI7I-0003xO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 12:30:04 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SI7G-0003xJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 12:30:02 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 12:23:25 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 12:23:24 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: DDS Frequency setting requirement Message-ID: <3A87D5BC.3808.4FD5B5@localhost> In-reply-to: <001301c09496$c124e600$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > > .......................I suggest the time has come to make > this a requirement for all of us experimenting on LF. > Comments etc. > Larry > VA3LK I am sure you meant to say recommendation. As soon as we make something a requirement, I am out of here. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4746 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 11:43:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 11:43:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 14419 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 11:46:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 11:46:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SHGf-0003dR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 11:35:41 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mtiwmhc27.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.52]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SHGe-0003dL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 11:35:40 +0000 Received: from att.net ([12.77.27.196]) by mtiwmhc27.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.10 201-229-121-110) with ESMTP id <20010212113459.JPYL7519.mtiwmhc27.worldnet.att.net@att.net>; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 11:34:59 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A87CA62.48B4BFAD@att.net> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 06:34:58 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "Brian Rogerson" , "RSGB LF" Subject: Re: LF: CT1DRP Q5 in North Carolina References: <3.0.5.32.20010212065528.007c5950@pop3.esoterica.pt> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Brian, Looks like the best screen shot was the first one. On the second shot I messed with the Argo timing to try to get a full call set on one shot but that was a mistake so I set it back to fast. Also on the second shot I calibrated the frequency scale. Time shown is EST (-5:00 UTC). The last traces of your signal was seen at 0724 UTC. http://dmcintyre.home.att.net/CT1DRP12feb01.jpg http://dmcintyre.home.att.net/CT1DRPb12feb01.jpg I entered your location into a range and bearing program called BD. This program has proven to be very reliable for microwave work but it has not tracked exactly with other programs for distances to Europe. If I entered your location correctly BD shows you in grid IN51qd and a distance of 6137.011 km. I am located in EM95tg at 35 15 22 N -080 22 48 W. This location is several hundred kilometers inland. Your signal was also seen by Jon W1JHJ of Plymouth, Massachusetts. He alerted me to your signal on the LWCA reflector, lowfer@qth.net. I'm not sure if he is subscribed to the rsgb lf reflector. I will contact him for a report if you wish. Thanks for your effort to transmit a fine LF signal. 73, Dexter, W4DEX Brian Rogerson wrote: > > Thank you Dexter and yes please. I only powered up the Decca TX live > on aerial for the first time yesterday at about 1500utc. It is suddenly > worth all the hard work. My location is as per the signature block, the city > of Porto. > > 73, Brian > > 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W > http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3171 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 10:55:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 10:55:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 26424 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 10:58:05 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 10:58:05 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SGbF-0003Of-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:52:53 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ns1.swh.sk ([192.108.125.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SGbD-0003Oa-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:52:51 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from hermes.swh.sk (hermes [139.24.136.129]) by ns1.swh.sk (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id LAA05148 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 11:52:33 +0100 Received: from btss101a.swh.sk (btss.swh.sk [139.24.136.15]) by hermes.swh.sk (8.9.3/8.9.2) with ESMTP id LAA17327 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 11:52:30 +0100 (MET) Received: by btss.swh.sk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 11:52:27 +0100 Message-ID: <29BDD4F529FCD311B631009027357C4E022585C4@btss103a.swh.sk> From: "Gasparik Richard" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: DL7YA QRA locator ? Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 11:52:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi LF-ers... I worked DL7YA on QRSS and I need his QRA locator. Anybody knows ? 73 de Rich OM2TW From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19629 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 10:38:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 10:38:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 9168 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 10:38:27 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 10:38:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SGFa-0003Ic-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:30:30 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fm215.facility.pipex.com ([194.131.104.225]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SGFX-0003IX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:30:27 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from 233.pncl.co.uk (173.234.35.212.in-addr.arpa.ip-pool.cix.co.uk [212.35.234.173]) by fm215.facility.pipex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA16468 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:25:09 GMT Message-ID: <5.0.2.1.2.20010212090705.00a69aa0@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Version 5.0.2 Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:28:49 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: Re: LF: GPS-Disciplined BPSK In-reply-to: <200102112117.QAA9976558@indyweb.cgocable.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 21:17 11/02/01 Sunday, VE2IQ wrote: >...............I propose to use GPS ..........: >The only real requirement is a GPS receiver with a 1-PPS output good to >within a few microseconds of UTC. Be careful - don't confuse relative with absolute time. The 1 pps output from cheapo GPS sets is only relative time, not absolute. If you like, it gives frequency not phase and phase is essential to your application. Recovering absolute time from GPS to microsec accuracy is not easy and you won't do it with an ordinary positioning receiver. My company used to make a lot of money out of selling specialist GPS timing receivers designed purely to recover absolute time - they cost about ten times as much as ordinary sets! Your basic idea is right but do you really need microsecs? Would millisecs do? If so it becomes a lot easier although I still wouldn't advise using the 1 pps. BTW you don't have to work out how many seconds from the start of week - the GPS message has what's called a Z-count which is exactly that - the number of seconds into the week starting at midnight Sunday UTC. If you can get the right data outputs from the receiver (some of the slightly more expensive receivers give them) what about this : Using only one satellite - pull out the Z-count (in the message); the delay between satellite and you (from measured pseudo-range); the UTC offset for that satellite (in the message). Apply the transit delay to the UTC offset and label it with the Z-count. This will be a near approximation to absolute UTC that might do for your purpose. It only relies on the receiver's internal timing for a few millisecs while it gets the pseudorange although unavoidably it is still contaminated with software functions and timing. Can't be done with a cheapo because it won't let you into the fundamental GPS data message. NMEA data outputs are irrelevant and unusable for this purpose. Of course, there's a bit of external programming involved to manipulate the numbers. I haven't looked at this method in any detail to see where the snags are but if it looks a runner I'll do a bit more work on it. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10002 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 09:01:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 09:01:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 1629 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 09:04:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 09:04:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SEol-0002ok-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 08:58:43 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hose.mail.pipex.net ([158.43.128.58]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SEok-0002of-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 08:58:42 +0000 Received: (qmail 14154 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 08:58:26 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from usercc59.uk.uudial.com (62.188.151.71) by smtp-4.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 08:58:26 -0000 From: "Nick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Very large adaptive rx array Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 08:57:19 +0000 Message-ID: References: <94.ffdecc5.27b8a16f@aol.com> In-reply-to: X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On Mon, 12 Feb 2001 09:18:04 +0200, you wrote: > for something? > >It might be a good idea to check what the radio astronomers have done >during the last decades and hopefully some good ideas could be found >that could now be implemented using low cost generally available >hardware and software (which is an absolute requirement for any >coordinated effort between several hams :-). Looking at submarine sonar techniques and producing an analogue for radio would also be very useful. Beam steering from an array of broad beam width transducers and digging into the noise are both commonly done. Nick From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10141 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 07:58:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 07:58:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 23526 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 08:01:29 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 08:01:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SDqf-0002Vf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 07:56:37 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rhun.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.26]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SDqI-0002VV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 07:56:14 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ea.esoterica.pt (ea.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.204]) by rhun.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1C7tqb00122 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 07:55:52 GMT Received: from slave2 (por374.esoterica.pt [195.22.18.75]) by ea.esoterica.pt (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA01697 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 07:55:50 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010212075558.007c55c0@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 07:55:58 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Transatlantic MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: My apologies to the group, my last e-mail was intended to be sent only to Peter. Put it down to adrennalin. 73, Brian 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11402 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 07:56:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 07:56:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 10622 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 07:55:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 07:55:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SDlK-0002Rz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 07:51:06 +0000 Received: from cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.171]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SDlK-0002Ru-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 07:51:06 +0000 Received: from modem-8.anfauglir.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.109.136] helo=lvm) by cmailg1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14SDl4-0004u8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 07:50:51 +0000 Message-ID: <001c01c094c9$0d0d80e0$886d883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: Re. Transatlantic from CT Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 07:52:39 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Congratulations Brian, all the hard work pays off ! 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10519 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 07:34:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 07:34:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 15460 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 07:34:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 07:34:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SDFf-0002IX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 07:18:23 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from kauha.saunalahti.fi ([195.197.53.227]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SDFe-0002IS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 07:18:22 +0000 Received: from pmk2 (DCCXLII.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.74.25.142]) by kauha.saunalahti.fi (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id f1C7InC27497 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 09:18:49 +0200 (EET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Paul Keinanen" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Very large adaptive rx array Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 09:18:04 +0200 Message-ID: References: <94.ffdecc5.27b8a16f@aol.com> In-reply-to: <94.ffdecc5.27b8a16f@aol.com> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.7/32.534 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On Sun, 11 Feb 2001 21:16:15 EST, MarkusVester@aol.com wrote: >Hi group, > >is there more you can do with that CW carrier-component than simply detect >the presence of a signal without being able to decode it? Well, we could use >it to guide a large adaptive array to regain the data rate: > >- 100 receivers in different locations across Europe record audio files of a >highly desired DX-station transmitting 3 s qrss, buried -10 dB in the noise, It seems that you are thinking about similar array than the VLBI (Very Long Baseline Interferometry) used in radio astronomy to get a high angular resolution. >- offline, we extract the frequency offset and phase of the DX carrier >components in each file using low bandwidth (e.g. 3 mHz). We also estimate >their signal-to-noise ratios; In VLBI a very high stability frequency standard (hydrogen masers etc.) is used as a phase reference on each receiving station and these timing signal is inserted on the same tape as the received signal. All tapes are read out by the correlator and the timing signal is matched with those from other tapes. A low cost amateur solution could be to record a commonly received signal such as Loran-C, MSF, GPS etc. on the other channel of the sound card, while the actual DX-LF signal is recorded on the other channel. >- using this information as a phase reference, we convert each file to >baseband (like in a synchronous AM-detector), > >- then add up the baseband data from all files, weighted by their SNR. Using >the carriers as pilots, we effectively have focused our large sparse array on >a small area around the transmitter, gaining some 20 dB in signal to noise >ratio, In VLBI, the individual antennas have usually a beam width of a few degree beamwidth. Thus the synthesised beam can be generated somewhere within the individual antenna beams. Signal sources well outside the beamwidth of individual antennas are attenuated, thus, reducing the receiver overloading risk. However, the individual antennas in a large LF array would be more or less omnidirectional, so the risk for overload (or quantisation of weak signals) is larger. If I understand the situation correctly, more omnidirectional antennas would be required to synthesise a _single_ narrow beam than when using individual antennas with narrow beamwidths. With an array spread over 2000 km, would in theory produce a beam width of a few arc minutes. However, since the propagation characteristics are not stable on LF (compared to empty space), such narrow beams would be more or less useless. An electronically controlled array could also be useful for nulling out some spot interference sources, but unfortunately most natural noise sources are more or less omnidirectional, so a better strategy is to put the maximum of the response towards the desired station. > >- and we finally extract the information at full data rate in its original >0.3 Hz bandwidth, saving a factor of 100 in time and transmitted energy. > >Just a thought after a glass of wine, or maybe good for something? It might be a good idea to check what the radio astronomers have done during the last decades and hopefully some good ideas could be found that could now be implemented using low cost generally available hardware and software (which is an absolute requirement for any coordinated effort between several hams :-). Paul OH3LWR From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20435 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 07:31:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 07:31:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 6159 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 07:34:19 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 07:34:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SDCh-0002IN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 07:15:19 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rhun.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.26]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SDCe-0002II-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 07:15:16 +0000 Received: from ea.esoterica.pt (ea.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.204]) by rhun.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1C7F0b29074 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 07:15:00 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from slave2 (por200.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.200]) by ea.esoterica.pt (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id HAA22383 for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 07:14:59 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010212071513.008ad260@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 07:15:13 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Transatlantic In-reply-to: <2001021200082868199@zetnet.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Peter it has been like Christmas all over again. I had carried the Decca up the two flights of stairs on Saturday and set up the tuning and loading yesterday morning. Also measured the antenna input resistance and it was not quite as low as I thought but is between 60 and 70 on a very flat peak on the noise bridge. After lunch I carried the keying computer up and connected it all together. I started transmitting at about 1500utc and almost imediately received an e-mail from Ko. What a fine SWL he is. There will be howls and screams today as by midnight Larry told me I was coincident with Laurie. I wasn't, but I was on top of Graham, XTZ so having listened for an hour there were only two visible signals in the window and I move up 1Hz and continued transmitting. My signal was not on top of Graham's transmission when I started. So we shall see how splendid the start was. I have a feeling that I have a choas causing knack but I can't stop smiling like a Chesire cat and my wife thinks I have finally gone mad. 73, Brian At 00:08 12/02/01 GMT, you wrote: >Hi Brian >> I would also like to join you all. Though the vfo is stable, I checked >> overnight against the existing transmissions, it has only 1Hz setting >> resolution. > >Seen in VE; what a splendid start! > >Congratulations > >-- >Regards, Peter, G3LDO > > > > > > 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12978 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 05:45:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 05:45:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 19659 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 05:48:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 05:48:51 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SBjp-0001rx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 05:41:25 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mtiwmhc28.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.36]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14SBjo-0001rs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 05:41:24 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from att.net ([12.77.60.201]) by mtiwmhc28.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.10 201-229-121-110) with ESMTP id <20010212054054.NUOI2550.mtiwmhc28.worldnet.att.net@att.net> for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 05:40:54 +0000 Message-ID: <3A877765.AE80C03A@att.net> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 00:40:53 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "RSGB LF" Subject: LF: CT1DRP Q5 in North Carolina Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Argo just captured a complete call set from CT1DRP on 135.9234 KHz. Will let it run the rest of the night and upload the best shot later if anyone is interested in seeing it. GN, Dexter, W4DEX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16935 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 02:25:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 02:25:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 9602 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 02:24:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 02:24:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S8YH-0000p0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 02:17:17 +0000 Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S8YG-0000ot-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 02:17:16 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.94.ffdecc5 (16336) for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 21:16:15 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <94.ffdecc5.27b8a16f@aol.com> Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 21:16:15 EST Subject: LF: Very large adaptive rx array To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 70 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi group, is there more you can do with that CW carrier-component than simply detect the presence of a signal without being able to decode it? Well, we could use it to guide a large adaptive array to regain the data rate: - 100 receivers in different locations across Europe record audio files of a highly desired DX-station transmitting 3 s qrss, buried -10 dB in the noise, - offline, we extract the frequency offset and phase of the DX carrier components in each file using low bandwidth (e.g. 3 mHz). We also estimate their signal-to-noise ratios; - using this information as a phase reference, we convert each file to baseband (like in a synchronous AM-detector), - then add up the baseband data from all files, weighted by their SNR. Using the carriers as pilots, we effectively have focused our large sparse array on a small area around the transmitter, gaining some 20 dB in signal to noise ratio, - and we finally extract the information at full data rate in its original 0.3 Hz bandwidth, saving a factor of 100 in time and transmitted energy. Just a thought after a glass of wine, or maybe good for something? 73s de Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15650 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 02:22:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 02:22:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 3930 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 02:22:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 02:22:57 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S8Xc-0000or-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 02:16:36 +0000 Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S8Xb-0000om-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 02:16:35 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.6d.f52425f (16336) for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 21:15:39 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <6d.f52425f.27b8a148@aol.com> Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 21:15:36 EST Subject: LF: Phase-coherent CW and DFCW To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 70 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi group, Apropos DBF39 non-phase-coherence: Reminds me of an issue which has been brought up here about the possibility of very narrowband-detection of the carrier-component of (higher data rate) CW and DFCW. - To preserve the phase during normal-CW key up, you simply have to leave your (stable) oscillator running, including frequency dividers (!). Multipliers and the m-dividers of a m/n-PLL can be blanked though. - For DFCW with a single oscillator, the phase difference accumulated during each frequency-switching period has to be an integer multiple of 360°. This can be achieved by choosing the symbol length (eg. 4 s) and the frequency shift (eg. 4 Hz) such that their product becomes an integer number (16). 73s de Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11000 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 02:18:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 02:18:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 19746 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 02:21:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 02:21:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S8WT-0000of-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 02:15:25 +0000 Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S8WS-0000oW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 02:15:24 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.62.bd354dd (16336) for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 21:14:29 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <62.bd354dd.27b8a105@aol.com> Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 21:14:29 EST Subject: LF: Re:DCF39 frequency accuracy To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 70 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Peter and all, > I am using DCF39 to set the calibration of my rx and argo. There are two reasons why DBF39 may be of limited use for very precise frequency calibration: - Due to the phase-continuous FSK, the phase has shifted arbitrarily after each data burst. On Argo with 21mHz or finer resolution you will not see a narrow line but rather an irregular strip several ten mHz wide. - Even in the intervals between the telegrams, the freq appears to be slightly higher than nominal. Using a scope to directly measure the rate of phase advance relative to an OCXO reference derived from terrestrial TV "ZDF", I got 138830.030 Hz for DBF39 and 128930.014 Hz for DCF49, but these offsets may even be variable. On the other hand, 122.5 (DCF42 pilot), 153.0 (DLF radio) and of course 77.5 kHz (DCF77) seem to be very accurate. 73 and good luck Markus From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10193 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 02:17:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 02:17:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 16996 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 02:20:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 02:20:27 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S8VL-0000oN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 02:14:15 +0000 Received: from imo-r20.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.162]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S8VK-0000oF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 02:14:14 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-r20.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.44.b4a71d2 (16336) for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 21:13:25 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <44.b4a71d2.27b8a0c5@aol.com> Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 21:13:25 EST Subject: LF: DF6NM's balloon on Feb. 10/11 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 70 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi John, hi all, BIG SMILE, your screen shots at Dave's site are great news for me: That mystery signal was mine! Ok ok, there may not be much of an identifiable callsign... but compared to my own 30s-Argo files all frequencies fit neatly: freq UT approx. call 923.49 2045-0923 G3XDV ("V" in your 0639 image) 922.79 2210-0200 YXM 922.60 0030-0928 G3XTZ ("3XT" before 0639) 922.19 1940-0052 DF6NM 920.77 2135-0049 G3LDO 920.73 0403-0534 G3LDO (ending in the middle of 3rd callsign's L) 919.79 2100-2130 G3LDO 920.8-921.4 2311-2355 ? (freq unstable and jumping) 922.4-923.0 0444-0521 ZZ ? (30s/dot 2:1, freq unstable) At least a couple of dots and dashes in the puzzle can be identified. I was sending my complete callsign using 3:1 classic cw ratios during the following times tx (UT) /dot in screenshots by VE1ZJ 1940-2012 30s 2016-2043 30s 2045-2136 60s 2139-2230 60s 0946: "D", 1005:"DF", 1023: "6N" 2236-2302 30s 2304-2355 60s 0000-0051 60s (antenna low after 00:15) Hey, I'm really happy, tnx to you and to all who made it possible! 73 de Markus, DF6NM in JN59NK. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16186 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 02:12:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 02:12:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 29317 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 02:12:42 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 02:12:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S8Nj-0000kW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 02:06:23 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail7.wlv.netzero.net ([209.247.163.57]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S8Nh-0000kR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 02:06:22 +0000 Received: (qmail 29949 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 02:04:51 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from pppa18-resaleplymouth1-1r7204.dialinx.net (HELO lazzo) (4.54.152.79) by mail7.wlv.netzero.net with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 02:04:51 -0000 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20010211205745.00f9bb20@pop.netzero.net> X-Sender: w1jhj@pop.netzero.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 20:57:45 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Jonathan Jesse" Subject: Re: LF: Argo beta 1, build 120 In-reply-to: <3A86F1FA.587D974A@usa.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 09:11 PM 2/11/01 +0100, you wrote: >Argo beta 1, build 120 has been just uploaded to the weaksignals site : >http://www.weaksignals.com Thank you Alberto, The new version appears to be very good. It's nice having more freq ticks. I have calibrated the scale to read the frequency of the 135.92*** beacon stations per Peter Dodd's suggestion. It makes it much easier to identify signals. 73 and thanks, Jon W1JHJ Plymouth, MA FN41qw http://geocities.com/ws1k.rm Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29577 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 02:00:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 02:00:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 12183 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 02:03:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 02:03:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S8Er-0000ht-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 01:57:13 +0000 Received: from smtp.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.26] helo=tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S8Eq-0000ho-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 01:57:12 +0000 Received: from server1 ([209.226.189.68]) by tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010212015625.BEGQ13130.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 20:56:25 -0500 Message-ID: <001301c09496$c124e600$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <2001021200082868199@zetnet.co.uk> Subject: LF: DDS Frequency setting requirement Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 20:49:46 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings: I suggest it has come to the time when we need to have all DDS units be programable frequency wise down to the integer steps of DDS unit rather than in the steps of 1 Hz and higher. 1 Hz steps are inadequate for the operations currently in progress in the LF community. In case anyone is not familiar the DDS units commonly available now have very small steps available to them. The basic is this, if you have a Reference oscillator of 30 MHz, or what ever, divide the reference in Hz, say 30000000 for a 30 MHz reference by the normal 32 bit value for most of the DDS devices available to us today. The simple math is this, 30000000/2^32 results in 0.006984919 or more easily presented as steps of 6.98 milliHz per step at the DDS level. The DDS VFO devices we are buying are programmed to step in approximately 1 Hz steps, what we need is a selectable setting so we can also select the milliHz steps. There are just over 143 steps of 6.98 MilliHz in a single Hz, this will let us move in tighter for intercontinental work at 60 second bits and higher. We should be able to have between 7 and 10 stations in a single Hz. The problem is the application layer software in the DDS unit, all we need is an upgrade to allow significantly better frequency control than we have now. The day of DDS units with 1 Hz steps is long over, we need the next level and I suggest we need this capability now. Thgis isnt rocket science, it is just making use of what already exists if you have a DDS frequency control system. I suggest the time has come to make this a requirement for all of us experimenting on LF. Comments etc. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8641 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 01:59:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 01:59:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 2725 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 01:59:33 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 01:59:33 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S8As-0000ea-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 01:53:06 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail9.wlv.netzero.net ([209.247.163.66]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S8Aq-0000eV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 01:53:04 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 29664 invoked from network); 12 Feb 2001 01:51:52 -0000 Received: from pppa18-resaleplymouth1-1r7204.dialinx.net (HELO lazzo) (4.54.152.79) by mail9.wlv.netzero.net with SMTP; 12 Feb 2001 01:51:52 -0000 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20010211204217.00f9997c@pop.netzero.net> X-Sender: w1jhj@pop.netzero.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 20:42:17 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Jonathan Jesse" Subject: LF: CT1DRP Copied in Plymouth, MA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Good job, Brian. Happy to see you making it across. Very Nice signal at 0130UTC. Have screen shot if anyone is interested. CFH has been on with a carrier for most of the evening. I hope they are not getting ready to modulate it anytime soon. 73, Jon W1JHJ Plymouth, MA FN41qw http://geocities.com/ws1k.rm Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18359 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 23:58:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 23:58:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 2834 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 23:58:23 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 23:58:23 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S6If-0008Vb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 23:53:01 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S6Ie-0008VW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 23:53:00 +0000 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.2/8.11.2/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id f1BNqjt18102 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 23:52:45 GMT X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <2001021200082868199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 00:08:28 GMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: LF: Re: Transatlantic Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi Brian > I would also like to join you all. Though the vfo is stable, I checked > overnight against the existing transmissions, it has only 1Hz setting > resolution. Seen in VE; what a splendid start! Congratulations -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2199 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 22:18:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 22:18:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 16129 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 22:18:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 22:18:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S4fk-0007yi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 22:08:44 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S4fj-0007yd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 22:08:44 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.87.231]) by jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:08:27 -0400 Message-ID: <3A875409.EDC5D9F5@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 22:10:02 -0500 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: lf tests tonight Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all CT1DRP positively identified. Good signals before QSB and QRM here from 60 HZ T 1 D filled screen at 2145Z Congrats Brian 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6560 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 22:03:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 22:03:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 7301 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 22:03:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 22:03:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S4UY-0007w1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 21:57:10 +0000 Received: from mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S4UX-0007vv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 21:57:09 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.181.90]) by mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010211215557.HNKP4990345.mta6-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:55:57 +1300 Message-ID: <002501c09476$453f4500$5ab51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3A83E830.5192.C534B3@localhost> <005d01c092d6$8b7dada0$aab21bca@xtr743187> <006501c09419$d4c8da40$8d6968d5@oemcomputer> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Re: ARRL News Story Date: Mon, 12 Feb 2001 10:56:52 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: "mike.dennison" To: Sent: Monday, February 12, 2001 12:00 AM Subject: LF: Re: Re: ARRL News Story > ZL2CA wrote: > > I do not agree with your glossing over error-rate in articles: > > > Editorial errors give the publisher a bad image with knowledgeable > readers. > > Getting it right the first time takes a lot of beating. > > I agree entirely that 100% accuracy should always be the aim, and I believe > that RadCom and QST both have a high hit rate, but the point I was making > was that a story with some errors in it will still do more good for the LF > fraternity than no story at all. > > 37 > > Moke, X3GDV Despite the deliberate errors you made in your ending, publishing the wrong call sign of an amateur radio participant is probably one of the worst errors that a journalist could make. Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19678 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 21:20:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 21:20:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 24219 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 21:23:01 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 21:23:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S3sI-0007hJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 21:17:38 +0000 Received: from indyweb.cgocable.ca ([205.151.69.200]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S3sG-0007hE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 21:17:37 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from 220-175.lr.cgocable.ca (220-175.lr.cgocable.ca [24.226.220.175]) by indyweb.cgocable.ca (8.9.3 (MessagingDirect 1.0.4)/8.9.3) with SMTP id QAA9976558; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 16:17:13 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <200102112117.QAA9976558@indyweb.cgocable.ca> X-Sender: bill1@cgocable.ca X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Light Version 1.5.2 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 16:17:21 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, lowfer@qth.net, bpsk@qth.net From: "Bill de Carle" Subject: LF: GPS-Disciplined BPSK Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello everyone, It has long been recognized that establishing bit-sync and frame-sync is difficult with current implementations of BPSK whenever there is marginal copy and the signal only comes up out of the noise for a few seconds at a time. We have to look at the signal for a long time to synchronize and by then it may be too late to copy any actual data because the signal has faded out. Clearly it would be a major advantage if we could obtain the clocking and framing information by other means. If both the Tx and Rx know precisely what time it is and can agree on a suitable standard transmitting schedule the problem is solved. I propose to use GPS and the following transmission protocol: Regardless of where a station is in the world, he will transmit his BPSK frames synchronously according to a UTC time reference grid. This will work for all speeds and encoding modes. The rule I'm using is to simply assume the transmissions started with the first bit of a frame at midnight UTC and have continued uninterrupted since that time. If the Rx knows the speed and mode (i.e. ET1, ET2, ET3) - he can calculate where the Tx is in its frame, when each bit starts and stops, etc. based only on his knowledge of the present UTC instant. Given an estimate of the distance the signal has to travel the Rx can then expect to receive synchronous phase transitions at precisely-known instants in time. The transmitter's job is to put out his signal according to the above rule. For example, at MS1875 (1.875 seconds per bit), and ET3 (32 bits per transmitted frame), each frame will take exactly 1 minute to send, and the first bit of every frame will start exactly on the minute boundary. The receiver's job is to know the time, know the distance from the station he's trying to receive, and to expect the first bit of each frame to arrive starting a few milliseconds after it was transmitted. With this arrangement multiple receivers at various distances can concurrently monitor the same transmitter. I am presently testing a GPS-disciplined version of AFRICAM that uses this protocol. The only real requirement is a GPS receiver with a 1-PPS output good to within a few microseconds of UTC. This output is inverted and fed into the "Ring Indicator" input of a serial port. The serial port has something called a TERI (Trailing Edge Ring Indicator) interrupt, which gets our 1 PPS signal into the PC with good time accuracy. If you are using Sound Card audio input, you *may* connect the GPS receiver's standard 4800-baud NMEA-sentence output to AFRICAM's serial port; that way the UTC gets set automatically. If you're using a Sigma-Delta board for audio digitization, it must have the serial port. But you can still input the 1PPS GPS signal on the RI pin. Then you'll have to synchronize AFRICAM's UTC clock by listening to WWV's ticks. It's quite easy. Ring Indicator (RI) is on pin 9 of a DB9 connector, pin 22 of a DB25. If AFRICAM detects a 1 PPS input it automatically calibrates the CPU's internal Timer-0 clock continuously against the GPS reference and uses it for timing. It will also tell you the exact sampling rate of your sound card if you're interested. There is an extra position for the AUTOTRACK switch: EXT (external sync). That's for bit-synchronization. And you may specify a SYNC time of "-1" which means we calculate where the startbit is based on absolute time instead of trying to extract it from the incoming data. All the old functions of AFRICAM are still available and you can use them for copying GPS-disciplined BPSK if you don't have a GPS receiver handy. The new AFRICAM also has the means to *transmit* short (1 line) test messages over and over until a certain time of day is reached. These transmissions use the RTS line to BPSK-modulate a carrier and the DTR line as a push-to-talk to key up the transmitter, same as COHERENT/AFRICA. Transmission only works in GPS-disciplined mode however. There are separate user-set parameters for transmit advance and receive delay time. Resolution is to the nearest millisecond. Transmit advance causes keying to occur a few milliseconds earlier than the correct time to allow for delay through transmitter circuits (which can be quite a few milliseconds) so the signal gets "launched" at just the right time. The receive delay accounts for delays in the receiver and of course the propagation delay. Estimate 5 microseconds per mile or 1 millisecond for every 200 miles. Initial results look very promising but I want to run some tests before posting the program to my website. If anyone out there is already set up with a 1 PPS GPS signal and wishes to participate in these tests, please let me know by e-mail. Best, Bill VE2IQ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3171 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 21:05:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 21:05:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 22496 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 21:08:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 21:08:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S3cR-0007bx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 21:01:15 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from kuku-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.63] helo=kuku.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S3cQ-0007ag-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 21:01:14 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from chilly.excite.com ([199.172.153.77]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010211210023.NIDP3417.kuku.excite.com@chilly.excite.com> for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 13:00:23 -0800 Message-ID: <24198898.981925223929.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 13:00:14 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Exact frequency of DBF39 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 213.104.148.252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, I have deleted the relevant e-mails, and can't recall who asked the question. The answer I gave earlier was from official information, but after I saw Ko's answer, I decided to measure the frequency for myself using Spectran and known Loran lines for reference and found the resting frequency to be 138830.7 Hz, to the nearest 0.1 Hz, which I believe is in agreement with the figure Ko gave? So the official value is wrong. There is detailed information about the service available from the German operators at http://www.efr.de 73, John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 84 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 20:05:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 20:05:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 20408 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 20:08:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 20:08:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S2hC-0007Gi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 20:02:06 +0000 Received: from [62.209.144.6] (helo=sniffout.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S2hB-0007Gd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 20:02:05 +0000 Received: from picks ([62.209.132.213]) by sniffout.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.977.9); Sun, 11 Feb 2001 20:01:46 +0000 Message-ID: <00f801c09465$997a22e0$7986d13e@f9.net.uk> From: "Dave Pick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <6.11f9cd82.27b6fb57@aol.com> <3A8722BF.649521C2@ns.sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: LF: DF6NM ballooning on 135.922.19 Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 20:02:44 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John's pictures have been added to http://www.wireless.org.uk/newspic49.htm 73. Dave G3YXM. >I am sending > these pictures to Dave @ picks today. Have a look . I am now qrv for nightly > tests. 30 sec dots > To any other stations I recommend freq of 135.925 and 135.9255 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21705 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 19:57:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 19:57:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 5244 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 20:00:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 20:00:02 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S2Z0-0007BF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 19:53:38 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S2Yz-0007BA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 19:53:37 +0000 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.2/8.11.2/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id f1BJrMt21801 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 19:53:22 GMT X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <2001021120083368199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 20:08:33 GMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: LF: LF Test Frequencies Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit > >Which frequencies are occupied in the 'transatlantic window'? > >Just in case one would give it a try. > > > >/sm6pxj > I would also like to join you all. Though the vfo is stable, I checked > overnight against the existing transmissions, it has only 1Hz setting > resolution. > Brian CT1DRP It would appear that the USA/VE group look between 135.920 and 135.923, although the picture sent to me by Jon covered .919 to .925 on the 30s dot setting. My transmission on Friday/Sat was on .919.7. Last night I moved up to .920.7. because I understood I would be outside the search window. On the 4th of Feb Markus listed the stations transmitting as follows: 924.15 ZP(V)? 923.4 G3XDV 923.0 M0MBU (very good frequency marker) 922.5 G3XTZ 922.3 G3YXM 921.7/.8 G3AQC (DFCW) 921.4/.6 G4JNT (DFCW) As I said I will be on 920.7 G3LDO >From Markus's picture QRSS stations .2HZ apart (DFCW needs a little more room) are quite readable so you can slot yourself in. Like Brian I only have 1Hz setting resolution and I don't have the confidence to do that so I will stay where I am on the edge!. According to Jon's picture there is space below 920.7. to 919.0, where there is a Loran line. This Loran line also shows up on VE2ZJ's picture These pictures from Dave's web site are a great help to us over here. The only improvement I can suggest is to align the receiver and Argo frequency settings so that they are direct reading. I am not sure of tonights transmission times but I will be on in the morning from around 0400UTC BTW. My ukonline site seems to have trouble receiving attached files. This one seems OK though. -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29010 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 19:41:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 19:41:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 16749 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 19:41:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 19:41:55 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S2IL-00075h-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 19:36:25 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from bucky-rwcmex.excite.com ([198.3.99.218] helo=bucky.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S2IK-00075c-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 19:36:24 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from chilly.excite.com ([199.172.153.77]) by bucky.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010211193604.HWXL20854.bucky.excite.com@chilly.excite.com> for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 11:36:04 -0800 Message-ID: <7381050.981920164715.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 11:35:54 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: DCF39 frequency MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 213.104.154.150 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Peter, The station that is operating is actually DBF39. DCF39 is not in operation. The frequency is 138.820 when not sending data and and spreads up to 139.170 when transmitting data. 73, John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28481 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 18:43:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 18:43:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 19229 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 18:43:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 18:43:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S1OE-0006hZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:38:26 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S1OD-0006hU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:38:25 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.83.22]) by jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 14:38:09 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A8722BF.649521C2@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 18:39:44 -0500 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: DF6NM ballooning on 135.922.19 References: <6.11f9cd82.27b6fb57@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Markus I looked at the screen shots I took last night . I believe I saw you at 2203Z. To the best of my knowledge my frequency calibration is off , zb on my screen shots 522.225 is actually a freq of 135.9225 . There is a "T" copy station on the pictures from last night at .525 or .524.... I am sending these pictures to Dave @ picks today. Have a look . I am now qrv for nightly tests. 30 sec dots To any other stations I recommend freq of 135.925 and 135.9255 Last night G3LDO G3YXM , and G3ldo were "O" copy . There was always one of them on. In addition There was a T copy stn at aroun2 135.920 73 de John VE1ZJ MarkusVester@aol.com wrote: > Hi folks, > > weather conditions seem to be ok for a balloon start tonight. I'll give it a > go on 135922.187 +-.01 Hz in 30 s and 60 s qrss. Current up to 2.2 A into 65 > m of wire, ERP abt .5 to 1 W depending on elevation angle. Transmission > started at 19:40 UT, will continue as long as the wind allows me to. > > Cu (or rather hope uc me :-)) > Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1784 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 17:40:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 17:40:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 22546 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 17:43:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 17:43:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S0Pz-0006Oz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 17:36:11 +0000 Received: from tomts8.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.52] helo=tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S0Py-0006Ou-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 17:36:10 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.209.138.166]) by tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010211173524.JLV16384.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 12:35:24 -0500 Message-ID: <001501c09450$c2f255d0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3A85C6DF.3F1104D8@ns.sympatico.ca> <001a01c09415$d0bdd620$8d6968d5@oemcomputer> <00a101c09422$5cc6b860$8d6968d5@oemcomputer> Subject: LF: VA3LK back in business Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 12:32:30 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings All: Power to my remote site has been restored and I am back in business. I will be in receive mode on 135.922 + and - 1.3 Hz, 60 second dits, for the next two nights. We will rerig the LF antenna later this afternoon. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28434 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 17:37:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 17:37:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 5284 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 17:40:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 17:40:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S0NI-0006Op-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 17:33:24 +0000 Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.45]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14S0NH-0006Ok-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 17:33:23 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.104.238]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010211173305.QYUF18404.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 17:33:05 +0000 Message-ID: <01d001c09450$a323c9a0$ee6868d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: List of transatlantics Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 17:32:27 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have trawled through the archives and found that 11 different stations have successfully transmitted across the Atlantic on 136kHz: 7 Gs, 1 GM, 1 OK and 2 VEs. They have been received by 22 different stations: 4 VEs, 4 Ws, 9 Gs, 1 PA, 1 I, 1 ON, 1 DL and 1 OH. This is an impressive record so far this season when only a year ago there were still people arguing that it couldn't be done. If you have received anyone, or been received, across the pond and you are not on this list, please let me know. I will keep a record on my web site. The list is as follows (transmitting station first): G0MRF > VE1ZJ G3AQC > VE2IQ, VA3LK, W1JHJ, W4DEX, WB5MMB G3LDO > VE1ZJ, W1JHJ, W3EEE G3XDV > VE1ZJ G3XTZ > VE1ZJ, W3EEE, WB5MMB G3YXM > VE1ZJ M0BMU > VE1ZJ, VE2IQ, W1JHJ, W4DEX, WB5MMB MM0ALM > VE1ZZ OK1FIG > VE1ZJ, VE1ZZ VA3LK > NL9222, G3NYK, G3XDV, G4JNT, IK1ODO, M0BMU, ON7YD VE1ZZ > DK8KW, G0MRF, G3AQC, G3LDO, G3NYK, G3XDV, G3YXM, G4CNN, M0BMU, ON7YD, OH9UFO =========== Mike, G3XDV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22007 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 17:01:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 17:01:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 19774 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 17:04:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 17:04:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RzpD-0006EU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 16:58:11 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RzpC-0006EP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 16:58:11 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.65.13]) by jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 12:57:50 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A870B3D.F0238C9C@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 16:59:25 -0500 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: DF6NM's balloon qrt at 0:51 References: <72.7bc93dc.27b742a1@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Markus What time did you start? I was only able to look from 2000z 2o 2230Z. I find often that the best signals are just before sunset 73 de John VE1ZJ MarkusVester@aol.com wrote: > Hi, > > all well until about 00:15. Then a southerly wind came up, pushing the > balloon lower and lower, almost scratching at our rooftop at 35°. Capacity > increased beyond the autotuner's range, so with hardly any current left I > signed off at 0:51 UT and pulled in the aerial. > > Good night de Markus, > DF6NM in JN59NK > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19639 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 16:00:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 16:00:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 22633 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 16:00:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 16:00:23 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Ryon-0005te-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 15:53:41 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from pop09-acc.tin.it ([212.216.176.72] helo=fep19-svc.tin.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Ryoj-0005tZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 15:53:40 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from mailsrv.dii.unisi.it ([212.171.197.136]) by fep19-svc.tin.it (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with ESMTP id <20010211155235.LZFK13653.fep19-svc.tin.it@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 16:52:35 +0100 Message-ID: <3A86B41F.2DF14CF2@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 16:47:43 +0100 From: "valerio gabbani" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: LF tests Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello All, this nigth i made some transmissions on QRG 135.923/135.922 Khz, 20 sec dot 1/2 ratio. I was on from about 23:00 UTC to 00:30 UTC and from 4:30 to 5:15 UTC sending "Z" about every 10 minutes. This evening i will try again with a better frequency calibration on 135.923 kHz from 22:30 to 23:30 UTC. '73 to all Valerio (IK5ZPV) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12819 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 15:14:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 15:14:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 14907 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 15:17:21 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 15:17:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Ry8o-0005kA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 15:10:18 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rhun.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.26]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Ry8n-0005k5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 15:10:17 +0000 Received: from ea.esoterica.pt (ea.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.204]) by rhun.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f1BFA1b21805 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 15:10:01 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from slave2 (por200.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.200]) by ea.esoterica.pt (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA02196 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 15:10:00 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010211151036.008b0c30@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 15:10:36 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: Re: SV: LF: G3LDO & M0BMU Copied Plymouth, MA In-reply-to: <000801c09430$cae7bde0$656c97d4@W98.swipnet.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 14:44 11/02/01 +0100, you wrote: >Which frequencies are occupied in the 'transatlantic window'? >Just in case one would give it a try. > >/sm6pxj I would also like to join you all. Though the vfo is stable, I checked overnight against the existing transmissions, it has only 1Hz setting resolution. 73, Brian 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2138 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 13:54:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 13:54:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 26673 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 13:54:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 13:54:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Rwpg-0005CD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 13:46:28 +0000 Received: from fep03.swip.net ([130.244.199.131] helo=fep03-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Rwpf-0005Bu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 13:46:27 +0000 Received: from W98 ([212.151.108.101]) by fep03-svc.swip.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with SMTP id <20010211134540.XDIH465.fep03-svc.swip.net@W98> for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 14:45:40 +0100 Message-ID: <000801c09430$cae7bde0$656c97d4@W98.swipnet.se> From: "C Andersson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: SV: LF: G3LDO & M0BMU Copied Plymouth, MA Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 14:44:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Which frequencies are occupied in the 'transatlantic window'? Just in case one would give it a try. /sm6pxj From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12968 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 13:44:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 13:44:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 2698 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 13:44:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 13:44:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Rwd1-0005An-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 13:33:23 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.193.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Rwd0-0005Ag-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 13:33:22 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from default (p0818.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.202.55]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id OAA06954 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 14:33:03 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <200102111333.OAA06954@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 14:33:18 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: DCF39 frequency X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by smtp.wanadoo.nl id OAA06954 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 2/11/01 10:53:00, you wrote: >I am using DCF39 to set the calibration of my rx and argo. > > >I always believed the signal was on 138830 kHz precisely. > >a couple of recent postings have quoted the frequency as 138820 kHz. > >could you please advise the current precise frequency > >many thanks > >peter G8AFN > Peter.. Here it's 830 (138830007.5 on my uncalibrated Argo) 73's Ko Versteeg [NL9222/SWL - JO22KF : Lat 520 12 15.0N, Long 040 51 40.5E] http://home.wanadoo.nl/nl9222/index.htm http://leden.tref.nl/~nl9222tv/default.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29056 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 12:05:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 12:05:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 174 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 12:08:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 12:08:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RvCj-0004Yb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 12:02:09 +0000 Received: from mta07-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.47]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RvCg-0004YW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 12:02:06 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.97.3]) by mta07-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010211120133.YDJ26323.mta07-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 12:01:33 +0000 Message-ID: <00a101c09422$5cc6b860$8d6968d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3A85C6DF.3F1104D8@ns.sympatico.ca> <001a01c09415$d0bdd620$8d6968d5@oemcomputer> Subject: LF: Transatlantic with "QRP" Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 12:01:14 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I wrote: > I think this must be the lowest ERP transmission yet to get across the pond. > I estimate about 200mW, but hope to get it measured this week. Jim kindly measured my field strength, and therefore my ERP from 9km away, and found it to be 140mW, so there is hope for those with a lot less than 1W ERP to go transatlantic with 30s dot speed. Mike, G3XDV http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20575 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 11:55:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 11:55:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 14520 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 11:58:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 11:58:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Rv4A-0004Rq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 11:53:18 +0000 Received: from [212.159.14.225] (helo=murphys-outbound.servers.plus.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Rv45-0004Rl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 11:53:14 +0000 Received: (qmail 11607 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 11:52:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO picks) (212.159.32.1) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 11:52:27 -0000 Message-ID: <003601c09421$408ba8a0$7986d13e@f9.net.uk> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: W1JHJ and W3EEE reception reports Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 11:53:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all. Jon and Steve's latest scans are at http://www.wireless.org.uk/newspic49.htm Dave 'YXM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10323 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 11:07:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 11:07:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 4446 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 11:10:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 11:10:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RuFZ-00042q-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 11:01:01 +0000 Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.45]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RuFY-00042Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 11:01:00 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.105.141]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010211110045.MZXY18404.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 11:00:45 +0000 Message-ID: <006501c09419$d4c8da40$8d6968d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3A83E830.5192.C534B3@localhost> <005d01c092d6$8b7dada0$aab21bca@xtr743187> Subject: LF: Re: Re: ARRL News Story Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 11:00:19 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ZL2CA wrote: > I do not agree with your glossing over error-rate in articles: > Editorial errors give the publisher a bad image with knowledgeable readers. > Getting it right the first time takes a lot of beating. I agree entirely that 100% accuracy should always be the aim, and I believe that RadCom and QST both have a high hit rate, but the point I was making was that a story with some errors in it will still do more good for the LF fraternity than no story at all. 37 Moke, X3GDV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4436 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 10:59:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 10:59:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 5605 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 10:59:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 10:59:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Ru7o-00040a-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 10:53:00 +0000 Received: from mta7-win.server.ntli.net ([62.253.164.47] helo=mta7-svc.virgin.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Ru7n-00040V-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 10:52:59 +0000 Received: from p.cleal ([62.252.41.152]) by mta7-svc.virgin.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with SMTP id <20010211105244.TKFE3596.mta7-svc.virgin.net@p.cleal> for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 10:52:44 +0000 Message-ID: <000301c09419$058d1840$9829fc3e@p.cleal> From: "Peter Cleall" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: DCF39 frequency Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 10:53:23 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I am using DCF39 to set the calibration of my rx and argo. I always believed the signal was on 138830 kHz precisely. a couple of recent postings have quoted the frequency as 138820 kHz. could you please advise the current precise frequency many thanks peter G8AFN From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20364 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 10:39:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 10:39:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 25440 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 10:39:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 10:39:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Rtnk-0003ps-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 10:32:16 +0000 Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Rtnj-0003pn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 10:32:16 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.105.141]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010211103200.OMMF6427.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 10:32:00 +0000 Message-ID: <001a01c09415$d0bdd620$8d6968d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3A85C6DF.3F1104D8@ns.sympatico.ca> Subject: LF: Re: lf tsts 9feb Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 10:31:34 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Hi positive ident on 3 stations M0BMU, G3XTZ, and G3LDO. In addition > 2 other stations look like "T" copy just above M0BMU > Be on agn tonight from 2000Z to 2230Z and agn 0400Z to 0600Z 30 sec > dots > 73 de John VE1ZJ > PS sent screen shots to Dave@Picks John, Your second screen shot clearly shows a 'V', and a gap then an 'X' 0.5Hz HF of Jim. That was certainly me sending continuous XDVs on 135.9235kHz. You can also see that my dashes are made from three 10s dashes and the CW spacing is a bit wide! You will find that 30s QRSS is better resolved using the 60 mode in Argo (don't know why, but it is). I think this must be the lowest ERP transmission yet to get across the pond. I estimate about 200mW, but hope to get it measured this week. 73 Mike, G3XDV http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27265 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 05:46:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 05:46:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 2546 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 05:46:35 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 05:46:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RpGU-000260-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 05:41:38 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail9.wlv.netzero.net ([209.247.163.66]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RpGT-00025v-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 05:41:37 +0000 Received: (qmail 26084 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 05:40:29 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from pppa32-resaleplymouth1-1r7204.dialinx.net (HELO lazzo) (4.54.152.93) by mail9.wlv.netzero.net with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 05:40:29 -0000 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20010211003257.00e07954@pop.netzero.net> X-Sender: w1jhj@pop.netzero.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 00:32:57 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Jonathan Jesse" Subject: Re: LF: G3LDO copied at W3EEE In-reply-to: <200102110505.f1B55WN01117@galahad.joust.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 12:07 AM 2/11/01 -0500, you wrote: >Greetings, > >Peter's call unmistakeable around .920-and-change at about 0430z Sun. Feb. 11th. '01 >here in _very_ windy PA. > > Cheers, > > Steve Same here tonight. Got a complete ID this time. 73, Jon W1JHJ Plymouth, MA FN41qw http://geocities.com/ws1k.rm Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21757 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 05:14:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 05:14:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 29138 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 05:14:03 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 05:14:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Rohq-0001uc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 05:05:50 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from galahad.joust.net ([63.108.136.2] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Roho-0001uX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 05:05:48 +0000 Received: from SteveD (p2-138-024.joust.net [63.108.138.24]) by galahad.joust.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f1B55WN01117 for ; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 00:05:32 -0500 (EST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <200102110505.f1B55WN01117@galahad.joust.net> Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 00:07:06 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Steve Dove" Subject: LF: G3LDO copied at W3EEE Organization: Dove Signal Processing X-Mailer: Opera 5.01 build 840 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings, Peter's call unmistakeable around .920-and-change at about 0430z Sun. Feb. 11th. '01 here in _very_ windy PA. Cheers, Steve From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18142 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 02:41:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 02:41:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 24546 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 02:41:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 02:41:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RmNN-0000ub-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 02:36:33 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.60]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RmNM-0000uW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 02:36:32 +0000 Received: from 66-44-59-242.s496.tnt3.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.59.242] helo=nan-and-sandy) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.16 #5) id 14RmN3-0000OY-00 ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 21:36:14 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 21:41:13 -0500 Message-ID: <01C093AA.308ACCA0.esanders@erols.com> From: "Nan and Sandy Sanders" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: "'Ted'" Subject: LF: Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 21:40:57 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Date: Sun, 11 Feb 2001 02:36:33 +0000 At least there are no loran lines to worry about :) http://www.qsl.net/k3pgp/Notebook/Lflaser/lflaser.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18054 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 02:07:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 02:07:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 10003 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 02:07:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 02:07:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Rkvz-0000K7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 01:04:11 +0000 Received: from smtp.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.26] helo=tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Rkvy-0000K2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 01:04:10 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.209.110.17]) by tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010211010322.CNCA14960.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 20:03:22 -0500 Message-ID: <002901c093c6$2f295720$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <2001021022285268199@zetnet.co.uk> Subject: LF: VA3LK no primary power..... Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 20:01:25 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings all: > Winds and driving rain mean a reduction in power - still, not as bad > as Larry's ice storms Peter, worse yet I have no primary power out at the remote site - dead as a can be without that stuff. I tried to get a generator, dragged it back there, and found the big 400 amp power connector is not he right one and the owner did not want me to change it - so I will have to wait until power is restored. CU all soon Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25795 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 01:55:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 01:55:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 17025 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 01:58:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 01:58:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RlBd-0000M5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 01:20:21 +0000 Received: from imo-d10.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.42]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RlBa-0000LY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 11 Feb 2001 01:20:18 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.72.7bc93dc (3991) for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 20:19:29 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <72.7bc93dc.27b742a1@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 20:19:29 EST Subject: LF: DF6NM's balloon qrt at 0:51 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 70 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi, all well until about 00:15. Then a southerly wind came up, pushing the balloon lower and lower, almost scratching at our rooftop at 35°. Capacity increased beyond the autotuner's range, so with hardly any current left I signed off at 0:51 UT and pulled in the aerial. Good night de Markus, DF6NM in JN59NK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15162 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 00:20:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 00:20:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 12700 invoked from network); 11 Feb 2001 00:23:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 11 Feb 2001 00:23:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RjkN-0008HU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 23:48:07 +0000 Received: from [62.209.144.6] (helo=sniffout.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RjkM-0008HP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 23:48:06 +0000 Received: from picks ([62.209.139.222]) by sniffout.com with Microsoft SMTPSVC(5.5.1877.977.9); Sat, 10 Feb 2001 23:47:50 +0000 Message-ID: <002f01c093bb$fd6e3700$de8bd13e@f9.net.uk> From: "Dave Pick" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Re: G3LDO & M0BMU Copied Plymouth, MA Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 23:48:37 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all. Jon's screenshot is at http://www.wireless.org.uk/newspic48.htm Dave G3YXM. > Hello, > Copied what appears to be both G3LDO and M0BMU at 0424 today. > SNIP > I have screen shots if anyone is interested. > > 73, > Jon > W1JHJ > Plymouth, MA > FN41qw > http://geocities.com/ws1k.rm > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2121 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 23:29:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 23:29:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 10682 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 23:29:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 23:29:44 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RiGv-0007iM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 22:13:37 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RiGt-0007iH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 22:13:35 +0000 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.2/8.11.2/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id f1AMDLt05740 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 22:13:21 GMT X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <2001021022285268199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 22:28:52 GMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: Re: LF: G3LDO & M0BMU Copied Plymouth, MA Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit I have studied Jon's screen shots, which shows G3LDO and M0BMU at 0424. I take it that the two lines, one just above .698 and the other on .703 are Loran lines. If so they can be used as frequency markers. Might I suggest that if you slightly retune so that the lower one is at .919 then the frequency scale will be direct reading; e.g. .920 = 135.920kHz. I make my frequency 135.9205kHz. I transmitted from 2100 to test the transmitter and power supply 1Hz lower than stated above. from 2140 now on .920.5. Winds and driving rain mean a reduction in power - still, not as bad as Larry's ice storms -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1881 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 22:52:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 22:52:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 11203 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 22:55:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 22:55:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Rhgv-0007Qm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 21:36:25 +0000 Received: from smtp.snet.net ([204.60.6.55]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Rhgr-0007Qh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 21:36:22 +0000 Received: from pop.snet.net (pop.snet.net [204.60.6.9]) by smtp.snet.net (8.11.1/8.11.1/SNET-mx-1.4/D-1.10/O-1.7) with ESMTP id f1ALa3L03890; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 16:36:04 -0500 (EST) Received: from mainc (trtn-sh7-port84.snet.net [204.60.214.84]) by pop.snet.net (8.11.1/8.11.1/SNET-pop-1.5/D-1.8/O-1.6) with SMTP id f1ALa2j18855; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 16:36:02 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <004601c093ab$170b96a0$0100a8c0@mshome.net> From: "Paul A. Cianciolo" To: lowfer@qth.net, rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: LORAN C Help needed Austron 2100C Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 16:47:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Folks, Just acquired an Austron 2100f Good condition but .it is not working. Has the word "H*E*L*P on the display. Also when it powers up the last thing before it goes into help mode is E-20. Does any know about these things. I am still working on a Austron 2000C. and I need to finish up witht that. But I was so excited to get this one... Also I have a question about the card that are in the unit. I have a feeling they may not be inserted in the correct slots Thank you Paulc W1VLF Cloudbounce Webpage http://www.qsl.net/w1vlf/ Rescue Electronic Surplus http://www.rescueelectronics.com 1982 Vanagon Diesel Turbo Diesel 1.9 GE Electrak E20 and E15 electric tractors First place in local tractor pulls at 1750 LBS With Stock E-20 Electric tractor From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21681 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 22:41:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 22:41:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 26801 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 22:41:48 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 22:41:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Ri9E-0007d0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 22:05:40 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail8.wlv.netzero.net ([209.247.163.58]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Ri9D-0007cv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 22:05:39 +0000 Received: (qmail 25544 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 22:03:52 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from pppa7-resaleplymouth1-1r7204.dialinx.net (HELO lazzo) (4.54.152.68) by mail8.wlv.netzero.net with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 22:03:52 -0000 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20010210164856.00f7d060@pop.netzero.net> X-Sender: w1jhj@pop.netzero.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 16:48:56 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Jonathan Jesse" Subject: Re: LF: G3LDO & M0BMU Copied Plymouth, MA In-reply-to: <2001021016310468199@zetnet.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 04:31 PM 2/10/01 GMT, you wrote: >Thanks for the screen shot. I found it very helpfull. It is amazing >what you can hear (see) with that little antenna. I'm happy that you liked the screen shot. Yes it is amazing that the 1 meter whip can hear what it hears. >I got up at 0400 and switched on the transmitter. After making sure >that it was transmitting correctly I went back to bed. >When I got up at 0700 I found that the transmitter was not working. I >checked the 70v PSU and, judging by its temperature, the transmitter >had been off for a while. Well that explains why the signal suddenly stopped. I see no other traces of your signal in my captures. It appears that the transmitter quit before finishing the first cycle. But what I did receive was so very clear as you've seen for yourself. >I had the new DDS exciter on for the first time (in a new diecast box >with reverse supply protect etc). This project was only just >completed in time to go on the air. This unit runs off a seperate >chargable battery. What I didn't realise was the DDS takes about 3 >times as much current as the original crystal mixer exciter. The >transmitter had been on from 2100 until 0030 and then from 0400 until >the battery died. > >I will try again tonight from 2300 until bed time and then from 0400. > >I will try to give a more exact frequency when I have calibrated the DDS unit Very good. I'll be listening/watching. Or I should say, ARGO and SNAGIT will be watching! I am like a child on Christmas morning that gets up early to unwrap his presents. I jump out of bed to look at my nights worth of screen captures! 73 and good job, Jon W1JHJ Jon W1JHJ Plymouth, MA FN41qw http://geocities.com/ws1k.rm Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21130 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 21:33:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 21:33:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 7489 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 21:33:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 21:33:30 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RgRI-0006uV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 20:16:12 +0000 Received: from imo-r15.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.69]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RgRF-0006uP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 20:16:09 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-r15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.6.11f9cd82 (18252) for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:15:20 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <6.11f9cd82.27b6fb57@aol.com> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:15:19 EST Subject: LF: DF6NM ballooning on 135.922.19 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 70 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi folks, weather conditions seem to be ok for a balloon start tonight. I'll give it a go on 135922.187 +-.01 Hz in 30 s and 60 s qrss. Current up to 2.2 A into 65 m of wire, ERP abt .5 to 1 W depending on elevation angle. Transmission started at 19:40 UT, will continue as long as the wind allows me to. Cu (or rather hope uc me :-)) Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16510 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 21:27:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 21:27:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 2137 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 21:30:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 21:30:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RgoV-00075o-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 20:40:11 +0000 Received: from [212.159.14.227] (helo=warrior-outbound.servers.plus.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RgoT-00071I-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 20:40:09 +0000 Received: (qmail 29399 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 20:39:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO picks) (212.159.37.198) by warrior with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 20:39:22 -0000 Message-ID: <004001c093a1$b1423da0$23219fd4@f9.net.uk> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3A85C6DF.3F1104D8@ns.sympatico.ca> Subject: LF: Re: lf tsts 9feb Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 20:40:22 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John's pictures are at: http://www.wireless.org.uk/newspic47.htm 73. Dave G3YXM. ----- Original Message ----- From: John Currie To: Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 10:55 PM Subject: LF: lf tsts 9feb > Hi positive ident on 3 stations M0BMU, G3XTZ, and G3LDO. In addition > 2 other stations look like "T" copy just above M0BMU > Be on agn tonight from 2000Z to 2230Z and agn 0400Z to 0600Z 30 sec > dots > 73 de John VE1ZJ > PS sent screen shots to Dave@Picks > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2713 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 21:11:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 21:11:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 29402 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 21:14:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 21:14:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RgFB-0006pF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 20:03:41 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.62]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RgFA-0006pA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 20:03:40 +0000 Received: from 66-44-70-36.s36.tnt9.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.70.36] helo=nan-and-sandy) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.16 #5) id 14RgEv-000596-00 ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:03:25 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:08:30 -0500 Message-ID: <01C09373.53A63EE0.esanders@erols.com> From: "Nan and Sandy Sanders" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: "'Andre'" , "'Ted'" Subject: LF: AMRAD beacon Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:08:25 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The AMRAD beacon on 136744.6 Hz is running 90 sec dots for at least the rest of the weekend. Sandy WB5MMB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 473 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 19:29:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 19:29:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 12179 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 19:32:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 19:32:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Rexk-0006AB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 18:41:36 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [194.200.20.13] (helo=mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Rexj-0006A6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 18:41:35 +0000 Received: from useras84.netscapeonline.co.uk ([62.125.135.89] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 14RetM-0007Mv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 18:37:05 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A858AD8.1F4A71CD@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 18:39:20 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: ARRL News Story References: <8862074.981727307205.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: john sexton wrote: > Hi Mike and Andre, > Sorry, I did not mean to criticise. Thought you did not like critisism. You even fooled ARRL with misinformation. > > It was just that I do not wish to claim or appear to claim something that I > have not achieved. > 73, John, G4CNN > > _______________________________________________________ > Send a cool gift with your E-Card > http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16108 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 19:18:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 19:18:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 12524 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 19:18:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 19:18:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Rexi-0006A4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 18:41:34 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [194.200.20.13] (helo=mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Rexh-00069z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 18:41:33 +0000 Received: from useras84.netscapeonline.co.uk ([62.125.135.89] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 14RetK-0007Mk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 18:37:02 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A858AD0.4A35D447@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 18:39:12 +0000 From: "gii3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: ARRL News Story References: <3A83E830.5192.C534B3@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike Dennison wrote: > It has been pointed out, quite correctly, that the ARRL story about > LF operating has errors in it. > > In defense of my fellow journalists, I will say that given limited > resources What limit resources???????? > it is inevitable that some errors will creep into any article. > I wrote a similar story for this week's GB2RS News Bulletin (see > http://www.rsgb.org/news from about 1600UTC Friday) and it took > me an hour to research and collate information from 20 e-mails, and > cut 1000 words of source material into 150 words aimed at the non- > LF radio amateur. Even though I know the subject well, Not so sure, you were telling us all recently about the AR88 receivers and got it all wrong. > I bet there > will be some errors where I have misunderstood something (for > instance, dates are a nightmare when the dateline crosses the > transmission path). > > What I have learnt from seeing some really awful amateur radio > stories in national and local newspapers is that, so long as there is > nothing damaging in the story the saying "all publicity is good > publicity" is true. There is no excuse for getting it wrong. Research you source of information for the facts. > > > The article is certain to get several more US amateurs interested in > receiving on LF, so from our point of view it will have done its job > successfully. Wrong information is totally misleading and confuses and cannot be tolerated for you to suggest otherwise is rediculous. > > > (professional signature line follows for a change) > > Mike Dennison, G3XDV > Publications Manager > > * RadCom * GB2RS News * > * RSGB Books and CDs * > * RSGB Online Web Site * > > Radio Society of Great Britain > Lambda House, Cranborne Road > Potters Bar, Herts UK, EN6 3JE > Tel: +44 (0) 1707 659015; Fax: +44 (0) 1707 645105 > > RSGB - UK AMATEUR RADIO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10366 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 18:41:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 18:41:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 16549 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 18:41:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 18:41:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14ReE1-0005wv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 17:54:21 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14ReE0-0005wj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 17:54:20 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.87.190]) by jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 13:53:55 -0400 Message-ID: <3A85C6DF.3F1104D8@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 17:55:27 -0500 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: lf tsts 9feb Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi positive ident on 3 stations M0BMU, G3XTZ, and G3LDO. In addition 2 other stations look like "T" copy just above M0BMU Be on agn tonight from 2000Z to 2230Z and agn 0400Z to 0600Z 30 sec dots 73 de John VE1ZJ PS sent screen shots to Dave@Picks From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26269 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 17:15:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 17:15:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 23804 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 17:15:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 17:15:49 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RcgB-0005KQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 16:15:19 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RcgA-0005KL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 16:15:18 +0000 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.2/8.11.2/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id f1AGF4t06510 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 16:15:04 GMT X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <2001021016310468199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 16:31:04 GMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: Re: LF: G3LDO & M0BMU Copied Plymouth, MA Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Jon > Copied what appears to be both G3LDO and M0BMU at 0424 today. BMU's signal > was there for quite a while and is ID'ed by only partial character. LDO > came out of no where and I have a lean screen shot of G 3 L then a partial > D which actually looks like an N. It looked like LDO shut the transmitter > off before the ID cycle finished. Thanks for the screen shot. I found it very helpfull. It is amazing what you can hear (see) with that little antenna. I got up at 0400 and switched on the transmitter. After making sure that it was transmitting correctly I went back to bed. When I got up at 0700 I found that the transmitter was not working. I checked the 70v PSU and, judging by its temperature, the transmitter had been off for a while. I had the new DDS exciter on for the first time (in a new diecast box with reverse supply protect etc). This project was only just completed in time to go on the air. This unit runs off a seperate chargable battery. What I didn't realise was the DDS takes about 3 times as much current as the original crystal mixer exciter. The transmitter had been on from 2100 until 0030 and then from 0400 until the battery died. I will try again tonight from 2300 until bed time and then from 0400. I will try to give a more exact frequency when I have calibrated the DDS unit. The battery is well and truly charged! -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7748 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 16:57:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 16:57:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 17940 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 17:00:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 17:00:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Rcl1-0005LM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 16:20:19 +0000 Received: from [212.159.14.225] (helo=murphys-outbound.servers.plus.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Rcl0-0005Kr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 16:20:18 +0000 Received: (qmail 12591 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 16:19:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO picks) (212.159.33.35) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 16:19:31 -0000 Message-ID: <000801c0937d$6362fa80$23219fd4@f9.net.uk> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.3.32.20010210054251.0158a710@pop.netzero.net> Subject: LF: Re: G3LDO & M0BMU Copied Plymouth, MA Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 16:20:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jon. If you send me the screenshots I'll stick 'em on the LF news pages at http://www.wireless.org.uk Thanks. Dave Pick. G3YXM. ----- Original Message ----- From: Jonathan Jesse To: Sent: Saturday, February 10, 2001 10:42 AM Subject: LF: G3LDO & M0BMU Copied Plymouth, MA > Hello, > Copied what appears to be both G3LDO and M0BMU at 0424 today. BMU's signal > was there for quite a while and is ID'ed by only partial character. LDO > came out of no where and I have a lean screen shot of G 3 L then a partial > D which actually looks like an N. It looked like LDO shut the transmitter > off before the ID cycle finished. Also looks like another weaker signal > about .2 hz lower than BMU but unidentifiable. > I have screen shots if anyone is interested. > > 73, > Jon > W1JHJ > Plymouth, MA > FN41qw > http://geocities.com/ws1k.rm > > Shop online without a credit card > http://www.rocketcash.com > RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5153 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 16:50:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 16:50:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 22188 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 16:50:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 16:50:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RbxL-00052S-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:28:59 +0000 Received: from tomts5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.25] helo=tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RbxK-00052N-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:28:58 +0000 Received: from server1 ([209.226.189.10]) by tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010210152812.ITBO1381.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:28:12 -0500 Message-ID: <001e01c09375$d5000960$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <16716.200102101404@gemini> Subject: LF: VA3LK status after local ice storm and winds Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:22:44 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings: Good News, LF antenna is repairable from the ground level and should be back in business later today in time for tonights transmission. see further Bad News. Primary power is out and not known how long repair will take. All HF antennas are down and will require climbing the tower to put back up. I will email when LF transmissions restart. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29261 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 14:13:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 14:13:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 19864 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 14:16:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 14:16:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Rajs-0004aG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 14:11:00 +0000 Received: from smtp3.vol.cz ([195.250.128.83]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Rajr-0004aB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 14:10:59 +0000 Received: from OK1FIG (hradeca-33.dialup.vol.cz [212.27.208.33]) by smtp3.vol.cz (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f1AEAiq83257 for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 15:10:44 +0100 (CET) Message-ID: <003801c0936a$b4510940$21d01bd4@OK1FIG> From: "Petr Maly" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: Re: LF: Visit in Boston, USA Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 13:59:46 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-2; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Haiko Thank you so much for useful information. Unfortunately AR7030 isn't much cheaper than in Europe, at least, the difference is not worth the complications (110 V, duty, transportation...). Anyway, thanks. 73 Petr OK1FIG ----- Original Message ----- From: Hebig Haiko To: Sent: Friday, January 26, 2001 4:37 PM Subject: Re: LF: Visit in Boston, USA > Hi Peter, > > try a search at the Boston Globe Yellow Pages: > > http://www.boston.com/search/#keyword > > I did not specifically watch out for ham stores, but do not > think there is much on offer in Boston. Perhaps you might > want to mail order it and have it shipped to your hotel. > > Universal Radio has it for $1399 (see > http://www.universal-radio.com/catalog/commrxvr/0777.html), > and so does Grove (http://www.grove-ent.com/RCV17.html), > with shipping and handling within the US included in the > Grove price. > > Also, helpful in terms of general interest might be the > Lonely Planet Guide: > > http://www.lonelyplanet.com/destinations/north_america/boston/ > > Third - and striclty off topic ;-) - if you are into books, > I can highly recommend Bluestocking Books. Mainly used and > rare, about 5k volumes. A relatively small store run by a > friendly and warm - as far as I can remember - former > literature teacher at Boston College or so in her 40ies. > Made some good findings each time I went there. Address is > 164 Prince St., Boston,MA 02113, and phone is (617) > 227-2075. Its located in a byroad up in North End, right in > the middle between former Boston Garden (now Fleet Center), > the bridge over to the Bunker Hill Monument and Old Granary > Burying Ground (very nice, right on top of the hill, packed > with Revolutionary War tumbstones and a very nice view over > the Coast Guard site). Try http://www.maquest.com or the > like for directions, or feel free to contact me. > > > > 73, > Haiko > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 458 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 14:10:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 14:10:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 12521 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 14:10:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 14:10:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Rae3-0004Uz-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 14:04:59 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Rae2-0004Uu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 14:04:58 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14Rado-0000qy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 14:04:44 +0000 Message-ID: <16716.200102101404@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 14:08:52 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Beacon Signals X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Beacon signals for the last 2 nights were: Thurs/Fri 2010 - 0620, 30s dots, 2:1 dash/dot ratio, with 6wpm ID Fri/Sat 2110 - 0640, 30s dots, 3:1 dot/dash ratio, with 6wpm ID Both nights on 135.9230kHz. Thanks to W1JHJ for the report; I would certainly like to see any screen shots you have available. I have been running beacon signals for the past 12 nights in a row, and am now feeling a bit frazzled, so unless anybody has any special plans, I will take a break for a few days to catch up on some sleep. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21960 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 13:24:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 13:24:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 11037 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 13:24:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 13:24:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RZuP-0004CY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 13:17:49 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from immtapop3.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.40.140]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RZuN-0004CT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 13:17:48 +0000 Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-118-42.bellatlantic.net [151.200.118.42]) by immtapop3.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA20019; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 08:17:19 -0500 (EST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A853FE3.C91D995D@bellatlantic.net> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 08:19:32 -0500 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: "lf-amrad" , "AMRAD Tacos" Subject: Re: LF: G3LDO & M0BMU Copied Plymouth, MA References: <3.0.3.32.20010210054251.0158a710@pop.netzero.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: It would appear that more and more people on this side of the pond are actually seeing things ... Kudos to Jonathan :-) Andre' N4ICK Jonathan Jesse wrote: > Hello, > Copied what appears to be both G3LDO and M0BMU at 0424 today. > [...] > 73, > Jon W1JHJ Plymouth, MA FN41qw > http://geocities.com/ws1k.rm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12253 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 12:17:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 12:17:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 13992 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 12:17:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 12:17:05 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RYnn-0003m6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 12:06:55 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ewey-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.191] helo=ewey.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RYnm-0003m1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 12:06:54 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from chilly.excite.com ([199.172.153.77]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010210120608.BPXP25056.ewey.excite.com@chilly.excite.com> for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 04:06:08 -0800 Message-ID: <16717954.981806768975.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 04:06:07 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: A correction MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 213.104.149.89 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The URL in my previous message, re: VA3LK last night should have been: http://www.g4cnn.f2s.com/VA3LK_010209.htm I think I forgot the .htm on the end. 73, John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 889 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 12:02:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 12:02:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 25755 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 12:02:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 12:02:54 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RYaC-0003fL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 11:52:52 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from gigi.excite.com ([199.172.152.110]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RYaB-0003fG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 11:52:51 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from chilly.excite.com ([199.172.153.77]) by gigi.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010210115214.FMLG23833.gigi.excite.com@chilly.excite.com> for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 03:52:14 -0800 Message-ID: <25122941.981805934956.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 03:51:42 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: VA3LK last night MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 213.104.149.89 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, For those interested, I have posted a selection of shots from Argo at http://www.g4cnn.f2s.com/VA3LK_010209.htm (N.B. if you retype this, upper/lower case is important) 73, John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21912 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 11:08:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 11:08:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 6631 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 11:08:33 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 11:08:33 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RXdY-0003HH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:52:16 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail8.wlv.netzero.net ([209.247.163.58]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RXdX-0003HC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 10:52:15 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 11905 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 10:50:29 -0000 Received: from pppa64-resaleplymouth1-1r7204.dialinx.net (HELO lazzo) (4.54.152.125) by mail8.wlv.netzero.net with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 10:50:29 -0000 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20010210054251.0158a710@pop.netzero.net> X-Sender: w1jhj@pop.netzero.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 05:42:51 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Jonathan Jesse" Subject: LF: G3LDO & M0BMU Copied Plymouth, MA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello, Copied what appears to be both G3LDO and M0BMU at 0424 today. BMU's signal was there for quite a while and is ID'ed by only partial character. LDO came out of no where and I have a lean screen shot of G 3 L then a partial D which actually looks like an N. It looked like LDO shut the transmitter off before the ID cycle finished. Also looks like another weaker signal about .2 hz lower than BMU but unidentifiable. I have screen shots if anyone is interested. 73, Jon W1JHJ Plymouth, MA FN41qw http://geocities.com/ws1k.rm Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23036 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 01:16:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 01:16:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 28394 invoked from network); 10 Feb 2001 01:16:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 10 Feb 2001 01:16:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14ROZG-00003W-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 01:11:14 +0000 Received: from tomts5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.25] helo=tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14ROZF-00003Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 01:11:13 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.209.110.57]) by tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010210011011.DNQO1381.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 20:10:11 -0500 Message-ID: <002e01c092fd$fbbbbd60$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <2001020922374468199@zetnet.co.uk> Subject: LF: ARRL Letter item on LF Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 20:08:28 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: . Credit must be given to The ARRL Letter and The American Radio Relay League. so credit is given, item follows ==>LF SIGNALS CROSSING THE POND, BUT NO QSO YET While efforts to complete a transatlantic LF QSO still have not been successful, things have been looking up lately in the nether reaches of the radio spectrum. Amateur Radio activity in the vicinity of 136 kHz has resulted in several recent "sightings" of signals from the UK here in North America. The first such signals were heard in the US in late January and early February. A report that the AMRAD WA2XTF 136-kHz beacon in Virginia had been heard in the UK turned out to be in error, however. The most recent report came February 6 from Sandy Sanders, WB5MMB, in Oakton, Virginia, who says he was able to copy Lawrence Mayhead, G3AQC, and "dashes" from Jim Moritz, M0BMU, in the vicinity of 136 kHz. Sanders' monitoring station is in a three-story office building. Such weak LF signals are not actually heard but seen. Reception of weak LF signals typically is done using spectrographic software. Signals are transmitted using dual-frequency CW--or DFCW (http://www.qsl.net/on7yd/136narro.htm )--or very slow-speed CW, also known as "QRSS." LF enthusiast Dexter McIntire, W4DEX, says that in DFCW the dot and dash elements are sent with the same duration in time being separated by frequency, making it easier to identify a signal from weak-carrier QRM. >From his QTH in coastal North Carolina, McIntire also has copied G3AQC on 136 kHz, possibly marking the first time an amateur LF signal from the UK has been heard and verified in the US. He also received M0BMU's LF transmissions for a possible distance record. "My best reception of M0BMU, Jim Moritz, occurred at 0100 UTC on the 31st of January," McIntire said. For LF reception, he ties together both legs of his 160-meter dipole and tuned the antenna for resonance with a small ferrite-core inductor. Moritz estimated his effective radiated power at 1 W. McIntire's reception of M0MBU might have set a new distance record. He calculated the distance at nearly 6394 km, and Moritz figured it at 6371 km--apparently edging out what's believed to be the record of 6311 km set by VA3LK and IK1ODO. Mayhead said he'd been receiving "excellent signals" from John Currie, VE1ZJ, and Larry Kayser, VA3LK, so he decided to run his own series of beacon tests with the idea of encouraging stations in North America to listen. McIntire says that on January 27, he captured some of G3AQC's DFCW transmission--including the letter "Q"--and sent him a screen shot, which Mayhead confirmed as his. On a subsequent evening, W4DEX copied G3AQC's entire call sign. "I think that we can reasonably claim that these events constitute the first sighting of a UK station in the US," Mayhead concluded. He estimated that his setup generates an ERP of about 350 mW. For a while, it had been thought that an Amateur Radio Research and Development Corporation (AMRAD) WA2XTF experimental 136-kHz beacon in Vienna, Virginia, had been spotted in the UK. John Sexton, G4CNN, had reported copying the AMRAD experimental beacon on 136.750 kHz on February 5 and 6, momentarily raising the excitement level at AMRAD. That turned out not to be the case. Sanders announced this week that it was determined the signal heard in the UK was about 5 Hz high and did not have a characteristic "chirp" that distinguishes the WA2XTF beacon. Like several other countries in Europe, the UK has an amateur band at 136 kHz. Experimental amateur operations have been authorized in Canada; the AMRAD beacon in the US is licensed under the FCC's Part 5 experimental rules. In October 1998, the ARRL petitioned the FCC to create two amateur LF allocations at 135.7-137.8 kHz and 160-190 kHz. The FCC has not yet acted on the request. McIntire is among those who'd like to see a new LF band become reality. "I'm champing at the bit to transmit on 136 kHz!" he said. end end end LSK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14163 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 22:26:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 22:26:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 8971 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 22:29:38 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 22:29:38 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RLwF-0007VI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 22:22:47 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RLwC-0007VD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 22:22:44 +0000 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.2/8.11.2/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id f19MMS318261 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 22:22:28 GMT X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <2001020922374468199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 22:37:44 GMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: Re: LF: LF tests. Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi John > Hi Peter Will you be using 30 second dots ? > 73 de John VE1ZJ Yes. Transmitting now. The DDS exciter is now in control and the frequency on the high res digital frequency meter is 135.920kHz. The stability looks good. I hope to get a more accurate check later using latest Argo. If anyone could give me a frequency report I would be very grateful. I will transmit until 0030 or 0010, and if I can get myself out of bed will try again around 0400UTC. Using zetnet URL to access the reflector - it seems a lot quicker! -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23206 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 21:21:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 21:21:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 361 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 21:21:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 21:21:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RKsM-00078o-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 21:14:42 +0000 Received: from tomts8.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.52] helo=tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RKsL-00078f-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 21:14:41 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.208.193.178]) by tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010209211349.FVG6982.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:13:49 -0500 Message-ID: <002d01c092dc$f65219d0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000901c092bf$70cbff00$921686d4@ericadodd> Subject: LF: VA3LK small Freq. change Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 16:09:00 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings All: There was another short power interruption here today. I reset the frequency as close as I could but it will have moved a bit. The ice storm did not damage any antennas so far. Transmitting 137.790 nominal (until I get some feedback) Larry VA3lk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29832 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 20:27:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 20:27:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 21208 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 20:27:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 20:27:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RK2O-0006nF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 20:21:00 +0000 Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RK2M-0006nA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 20:20:59 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.178.60]) by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010209202009.YKQT13182994.mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Sat, 10 Feb 2001 09:20:09 +1300 Message-ID: <005d01c092d6$8b7dada0$aab21bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3A83E830.5192.C534B3@localhost> Subject: LF: Re: ARRL News Story Date: Sat, 10 Feb 2001 09:22:13 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike, I do not agree with your glossing over error-rate in articles: > It has been pointed out, quite correctly, that the ARRL story about > LF operating has errors in it. > > In defense of my fellow journalists, I will say that given limited > resources it is inevitable that some errors will creep into any article. Editorial errors give the publisher a bad image with knowledgeable readers. Getting it right the first time takes a lot of beating. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6596 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 19:52:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 19:52:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 11080 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 19:52:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 19:52:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RJTL-0006ah-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 19:44:47 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RJTK-0006ac-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 19:44:46 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.229.227]) by jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 15:44:25 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A84BC76.74FD1F26@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 19:58:47 -0800 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: LF tests. References: <000901c092bf$70cbff00$921686d4@ericadodd> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Peter Will you be using 30 second dots ? 73 de John VE1ZJ g3ldo wrote: > I hope to join the QRSS tests tonight now that the DDS exciter is working. > My original frequency for these tests was 135.913 but as all the signals > seem to snuggled together around .923 I have allocated myself 135.9205 > If this is a problem please let me know. > > Regards, > Peter, G3LDO > > kHz. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25415 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 19:26:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 19:26:51 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Received: (qmail 14313 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 19:26:49 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 19:26:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RJ1A-0006Px-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 19:15:40 +0000 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RJ19-0006Ps-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 19:15:39 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 14RJ0s-000PuE-0K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 19:15:23 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 19:14:01 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: Re: LF: Loran Lines. In-reply-to: <00c101c092ac$139f2180$3304893e@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 3.05 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Martin Start, as I did, with an old long wave ferrite rod antenna in series with your wire. Sliding the ferrite in and out of the coil will resonate it. Not much good for transmitting but easier than winding a wheelie bin. 73, Tom G3OLB In message <00c101c092ac$139f2180$3304893e@default>, Martin Evans writes >Gosh! What a response- Thanks to Tom 3OLB, Mike 3XDV, Jim 0BMU, Dave 3YMC, >Alan 3NYK, John 3PAI, Dick PA0SE, David 0MRF- and anyone that I've missed. >The replies were amazingly consistent and amounted to a single command- tune >the antenna, stupid! Alan 3NYK told me to do this several weeks ago but >being the stubborn type I ignored his wisdom, only to have it rubbed into me >now! Right then- where can I find a wheelie bin to wind the coil on? (why a >wheelie bin?- to go mobile, of course, silly question!). >Thaks again to everyone for their help. I promise that I'll listen this >time! > >Martin Evans GW3UCJ. > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7974 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 17:48:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 17:48:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 7210 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 17:48:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 17:48:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RHUk-0005mq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 17:38:06 +0000 Received: from latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.40]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RHUj-0005ml-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 17:38:05 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-13-146.easynet.co.uk [212.134.22.146]) by latimer.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 83BD753D7C for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:37:49 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000901c092bf$70cbff00$921686d4@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: LF tests. Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 17:39:23 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I hope to join the QRSS tests tonight now that the DDS exciter is working. My original frequency for these tests was 135.913 but as all the signals seem to snuggled together around .923 I have allocated myself 135.9205 If this is a problem please let me know. Regards, Peter, G3LDO kHz. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27544 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 17:20:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 17:20:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 5232 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 17:23:14 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 17:23:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RH5d-0005gH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 17:12:09 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from galahad.joust.net ([63.108.136.2] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RH5Z-0005gC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 17:12:06 +0000 Received: from SteveD (m4-138-153.joust.net [63.108.138.153]) by galahad.joust.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f19HBlN02181 for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:11:47 -0500 (EST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <200102091711.f19HBlN02181@galahad.joust.net> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 12:13:26 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Steve Dove" Subject: LF: Feb 8th., and morse 'fist' Organization: Dove Signal Processing X-Mailer: Opera 5.01 build 840 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings, fellow static-heads, Rather noisy last night, a few obvious 'squigglies' evident, but not enough (other than frequency) on which to hang a hat. Tonight we are supposedly in for thunderstorms - quite rare this time of year - so a night off. The humble viewpoint of someone trying to read this stuff off a pock-marked screen is that the 2:1 dash:dot ratio does no favours whatsoever; a plea for classic morse 3:1 style, please? 73, Steve W3EEE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14263 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 15:27:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 15:27:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 366 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 15:27:28 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 15:27:28 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RFLO-0004y6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 15:20:18 +0000 Received: from mgate.arrl.org ([209.140.206.214] helo=kahless.arrl.org) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RFLN-0004xz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 15:20:17 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by KAHLESS with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) id <13J6R60B>; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 10:13:40 -0500 Message-ID: <125490A005E3D3118C9C00805FC743CC01BA0A6F@KAHLESS> From: "Lindquist, Rick, N1RL" To: "'Larry Kayser'" , rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, ": \"Andre' Kesteloot\"" , "\"Mike Dennison\"" Subject: RE: LF: ARRL News Story, an objection Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 10:13:38 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2653.19) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi, Larry and others Since *our* "ox is being gored" (please note the spelling of the word--it's "gored"; I'll assume that you typoed it, just as I did in one instance of two of your call sign in our Web story), I feel a few words from our corner are in order. The information about the AMRAD beacon's being heard by G4CNN was attributed to John Sexton, G4CNN. The ARRL did not make up this information, nor did we have any particular stake in it. Lacking immediate capability to verify his reception to a certainty, we simply recounted his report and attributed it to him, as we've done in many similar instances in the past. We now have new information that G4CNN was mistaken. We will revise our account to include the fact that the earlier information unfortunately turned out to be in error--an honest mistake, as it were. Are there any other "facts" that you would like to dispute? Please get in touch. Also, feel free to share any of the "number of emails highly critical of the League" that you have received. Mike, Andre shared an e-mail that mentioned some inaccuracies, and I also did not catch the typo from an e-mail I received (VE1ZZ instead of VE1ZJ). We've fixed that one too. Our apologies for the inadvertent call sign errors. The quality of our reporting is only as good as the information we get, an occasional inadvertent error or misunderstanding nothwithstanding, of course. We'd like to be as accurate as possible. Oh, and the word is "whose" (as in "whose ox"), not "who's". Another typo, I guess. Well, we humans all make mistakes now and then, don't we? Assuming we're all on the same side here, I hope we can report future LF achievements, and if errors creep into our reporting, understand that they are unintentional; please let me know directly, and we'll be happy to fix them. 73, Rick N1RL ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ Rick Lindquist, N1RL Senior News Editor ARRL--The National Association for Amateur Radio 860-594-0222 n1rl@arrl.org See Late-Breaking Amateur Radio News at http://www.arrl.org/ Read Amateur Radio News in The ARRL Letter at http://www.arrl.org/arrlletter Hear Amateur Radio News on ARRL Audio News at http://www.arrl.org/arrlletter/audio/ (or call 860-594-0384) ~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~~ -----Original Message----- From: Larry Kayser [mailto:kayser@sympatico.ca] Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 9:08 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; : "Andre' Kesteloot"; "Mike Dennison"; n1rl@arrl.org Subject: Re: LF: ARRL News Story, an objection Gentlemen: I am not impressed, then again it is my call that is wrong not yours. I guess it depends who's ox is getting goared. Frankly, having now received a number of emails highly critical of the League I am of the opinion that no news at all is much better than news that is incorrect factually. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25490 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 15:25:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 15:25:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 9596 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 15:28:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 15:28:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RFND-0004yK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 15:22:11 +0000 Received: from mail6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RFNC-0004yF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 15:22:10 +0000 Received: from modem-27.curunir.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.149.155] helo=default) by mail6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14RFMr-0001Ng-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 15:21:50 +0000 Message-ID: <00c101c092ac$139f2180$3304893e@default> From: "Martin Evans" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Loran Lines. Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 14:10:35 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Gosh! What a response- Thanks to Tom 3OLB, Mike 3XDV, Jim 0BMU, Dave 3YMC, Alan 3NYK, John 3PAI, Dick PA0SE, David 0MRF- and anyone that I've missed. The replies were amazingly consistent and amounted to a single command- tune the antenna, stupid! Alan 3NYK told me to do this several weeks ago but being the stubborn type I ignored his wisdom, only to have it rubbed into me now! Right then- where can I find a wheelie bin to wind the coil on? (why a wheelie bin?- to go mobile, of course, silly question!). Thaks again to everyone for their help. I promise that I'll listen this time! Martin Evans GW3UCJ. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15984 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 14:16:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 14:16:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 27922 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 14:16:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 14:16:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14REFg-0004Yv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 14:10:20 +0000 Received: from tomts7.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.40] helo=tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14REFe-0004Vt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 14:10:18 +0000 Received: from server1 ([209.226.189.45]) by tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010209140927.BDIE29316.tomts7-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1>; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 09:09:27 -0500 Message-ID: <005001c092a1$ad857b10$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, ": \"Andre' Kesteloot\"" , "\"Mike Dennison\"" , n1rl@arrl.org References: <3A83E830.5192.C534B3@localhost> <3A83F1F5.C9BA8B40@bellatlantic.net> Subject: Re: LF: ARRL News Story, an objection Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 09:07:41 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Gentlemen: I am not impressed, then again it is my call that is wrong not yours. I guess it depends who's ox is getting goared. Frankly, having now received a number of emails highly critical of the League I am of the opinion that no news at all is much better than news that is incorrect factually. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16574 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 14:08:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 14:08:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 3079 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 14:08:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 14:08:51 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RE7j-0004VI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 14:02:07 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fortune-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.203] helo=fortune.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RE7i-0004VD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 14:02:06 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from chilly.excite.com ([199.172.153.77]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010209140147.IIJF12032.fortune.excite.com@chilly.excite.com> for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 06:01:47 -0800 Message-ID: <8862074.981727307205.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 06:01:37 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: ARRL News Story MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 213.104.152.160 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Mike and Andre, Sorry, I did not mean to criticise. It was just that I do not wish to claim or appear to claim something that I have not achieved. 73, John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11198 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 13:42:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 13:42:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 25981 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 13:42:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 13:42:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RDi8-0004JR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 13:35:40 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.40.143]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RDi4-0004JM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 13:35:36 +0000 Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-118-213.bellatlantic.net [151.200.118.213]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id IAA23354; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 08:34:43 -0500 (EST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A83F1F5.C9BA8B40@bellatlantic.net> Date: Fri, 09 Feb 2001 08:34:46 -0500 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: "Rick, Lindquist N1RL" , "lf-amrad" Subject: Re: LF: ARRL News Story References: <3A83E830.5192.C534B3@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike Dennison wrote: > It has been pointed out, quite correctly, that the ARRL story about > LF operating has errors in it. > In defense of my fellow journalists, I will say that given limited > resources it is inevitable that some errors will creep into any > article.[...] Compared to the incredible inaccuracies, and outright fabrications that one reads in the regular press, and watches on TV, I would say I am very impressed with the quality of information I derive from reading QST and RadCom. Keep up the good work, 73 Andre' N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24930 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 13:08:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 13:08:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 705 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 13:08:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 13:08:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RDB6-00047r-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 13:01:32 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RDB2-00047m-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 13:01:29 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 12:53:06 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 12:53:04 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: ARRL News Story Message-ID: <3A83E830.5192.C534B3@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: It has been pointed out, quite correctly, that the ARRL story about LF operating has errors in it. In defense of my fellow journalists, I will say that given limited resources it is inevitable that some errors will creep into any article. I wrote a similar story for this week's GB2RS News Bulletin (see http://www.rsgb.org/news from about 1600UTC Friday) and it took me an hour to research and collate information from 20 e-mails, and cut 1000 words of source material into 150 words aimed at the non- LF radio amateur. Even though I know the subject well, I bet there will be some errors where I have misunderstood something (for instance, dates are a nightmare when the dateline crosses the transmission path). What I have learnt from seeing some really awful amateur radio stories in national and local newspapers is that, so long as there is nothing damaging in the story the saying "all publicity is good publicity" is true. The article is certain to get several more US amateurs interested in receiving on LF, so from our point of view it will have done its job successfully. (professional signature line follows for a change) Mike Dennison, G3XDV Publications Manager * RadCom * GB2RS News * * RSGB Books and CDs * * RSGB Online Web Site * Radio Society of Great Britain Lambda House, Cranborne Road Potters Bar, Herts UK, EN6 3JE Tel: +44 (0) 1707 659015; Fax: +44 (0) 1707 645105 RSGB - UK AMATEUR RADIO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29757 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 10:10:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 10:10:24 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 16894 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 10:10:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 10:10:25 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RAMi-00034k-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 10:01:20 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14RAMf-00034f-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 10:01:17 +0000 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14RAMN-0009cY-0A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 10:01:00 +0000 Message-ID: <+1bBRJAP07g6EwkA@telemetry.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 09:49:03 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: LF: No Loran in Swansea MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 3.05 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Martin and thanks for the report! Loran is very evident here in Devon on my TS-850 'barefoot' (no pre- amp). There are some quite strong signals from ON,PA0,and DL which you should be hearing on normal CW when the band is active, which it is not most of the time. Try Saturday and Sunday mornings when the band is relatively busy. Also, you might try comparing notes with Mike GW4HXO who is further round the coast at Solva. I quite often talk to him on 1933 KHz also. 73, Tom G3OLB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2200 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 09:42:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 09:42:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 18664 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 09:45:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 09:45:51 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14R9v6-0002t0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 09:32:48 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from kuku-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.63] helo=kuku.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14R9v4-0002st-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 09:32:46 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from chilly.excite.com ([199.172.153.77]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010209093226.HTMG20829.kuku.excite.com@chilly.excite.com> for ; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 01:32:26 -0800 Message-ID: <27746243.981711146014.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 01:32:10 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Amrad beacon ???? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 213.104.153.72 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, I tried looking for the Amrad beacon again last night (2001-02-08/2001-02-09), but this time at the frequency indicated by Sandy, WB5MMB, of 136744.9 Hz. Nothing found at that frequency, but lines were seen at: Line X: 136745.35 Loran: 136744.8993 Line Y: 136744.75 The Loran line is a local line from Lessay. Line Y was visible from about 19.30 and faded out at 07.30. It was strongest after 01.30. Line X was first seen at 01.30 with a lot of fading. It was at its best from 04.00 onward and also faded out at 07.30. I have posted an image at http://www.g4cnn.f2s.com/Amradbeacon.jpg (If you retype it appears to be case sensitive.) Neither line X, nor Y look quite like the image sent by Sandy. A really accurate measure of the frequency might help. I used Argo build 119 with 120 sec dots. (one screen width represents 2 hours) 73, John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21157 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 09:17:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 09:17:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 18697 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 09:17:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 09:17:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14R9Wh-0002ix-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 09:07:35 +0000 Received: from cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.173]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14R9Wd-0002is-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 09:07:31 +0000 Received: from modem-115.orbic-batfish.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.44.115] helo=lvm) by cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14R9WM-0003a8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 09:07:15 +0000 Message-ID: <000101c09278$3984a8e0$732c893e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: RE. ARRL LF News and my LF shack. Date: Fri, 9 Feb 2001 09:10:13 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Re. the this anouncement I have sent the following to the ARRL. I have just seen the report of events on the ARRL web page,and thought you might be interested in some more of the details. In early January I had been recieving excellent signals from VE1ZJ and VA3LK.So I decided to run a series of Beacon tests in order to encourage more stations over there to listen .I started this series on 13/01/01 on 135.922Khz a frequency that it had been agreed that only I should use.On 24/01/01 Dexter W4DEX reported that he was looking at my frequency. Dexter reported on 27/01/01 that he was seeing "hits" on my frequency at 0217utc. On 28/01/01 Dexter reported seeing a "Q" at 0548 the previous night.He sent a screen shot of this and I was able to confirm that this was part of my transmission and by measurment I also confirmed that another mark fitted in with my transmission sequence.We were excited by this and determined to endeavour to get the whole call through. Dexter achieved this on the night of 03/01/01. I think we can reasonably claim that these events constitute the first sighting of a UK station in the US. Laurie Mayhead G3AQC. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2064 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 03:35:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 03:35:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 18984 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 03:35:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 03:35:58 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14R4Gb-0000xU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 03:30:37 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.60]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14R4Ga-0000xP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 03:30:36 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from 66-44-57-156.s410.tnt2.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.57.156] helo=nan-and-sandy) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.16 #5) id 14R4GK-0005U3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 22:30:21 -0500 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 22:35:21 -0500 Message-ID: <01C0921F.6B75D620.esanders@erols.com> From: "Nan and Sandy Sanders" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Beacon sigs / WA2XTF beacons Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 22:34:10 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: There were two beacons but the one on 137.7500Khz had its ant taken down so work could be done on the building that was holding up one end and did not get put back up before the weather got cold. ( I know they work better if put up under adverse conditions. But we didn't. ) The beacon on 136.7446Khz is up and running with a 60 sec dot time. We plan on changing it to 90 sec dot time this weekend. I will talk to W4RI about the ARRL web page. I think the message I sent not confirming reception was missed. Keep trying, Andre' still has some QSL cards left. Sandy WB5MMB ---------- From: James Moritz[SMTP:j.r.moritz@herts.ac.uk] Reply To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 1:13 PM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Beacon sigs / WA2XTF beacons Dear LF group, I transmitted beacon signals last night from 2010 until 0320 last night, on 135.9230kHz - using the same 1/2 hour per callsign format as before. I hope to be on again tonight. Thanks to WB5MMB for the info on the AMRAD beacon, and also to W4DEX for the news stories. Interesting to see that the beacon has been reported by G4CNN - however, now I am a little confused - are there 2 beacons? I seem to remember there were, but that one was not operating. Clearly, the one on John's screen shot reported in the ARRL news is a different signal and frequency to the 136.7446kHz one described by Sandy. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13037 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 03:16:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 03:16:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 19066 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 03:19:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 03:19:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14R40D-0000sC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 03:13:41 +0000 Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14R40C-0000s7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 03:13:40 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.4d.738b735 (3970) for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 22:13:21 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <4d.738b735.27b4ba51@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 22:13:21 EST Subject: Re: LF: Re: CW-Keying via Soundcard or PC speaker To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 2/7/01 11:33:58 PM Eastern Standard Time, cn2859@coastalnet.com writes: << my setup would only be on ssb with low power, and i think that with vfsk/dfcw using one second or less characters would give no problem. >> Agreed. It would probably work fine t From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22396 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 00:54:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 00:54:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 15001 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 00:54:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 00:54:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14R1jl-00004I-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 00:48:33 +0000 Received: from imo-r18.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.72]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14R1jk-00004C-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 00:48:32 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-r18.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.7d.10b5b11a (4218) for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 19:47:34 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <7d.10b5b11a.27b49827@aol.com> Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 19:47:35 EST Subject: LF: 3C85 replacement To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 105 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I managed to get a look at the Philips ferrite handbook today. The replacement for the now obsolete 3C85 is the 3C90 material. The characteristics appear very similar to the 3C85, indeed looking at the graphs it's difficult to find many differences. Permeability is the same, Frequency response is similar It can work to a slightly higher temperature. But the major improvement is that the material has lower losses. The distributor has confirmed it's available in all the popular sizes ( 15 25 42 and 58mm) and should be a drop in replacement. For the 'big men' with 'big towers', there's a new section of the book dealing with cores for particle accelerators. Anyone for a core 500mm diameter? The only down side, having finally got use to the red 3C85, is that the colour coding for the 3C90 is described as "Aquamarine and white"...Sunglasses at the ready. 73 David From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22202 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 00:54:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 00:54:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 25343 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 00:54:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 00:54:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14R1k5-00004O-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 00:48:53 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.47]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14R1k3-00004D-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 09 Feb 2001 00:48:52 +0000 Received: from att.net ([12.77.60.187]) by mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.10 201-229-121-110) with ESMTP id <20010209004805.GNTL7738.mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net@att.net>; Fri, 9 Feb 2001 00:48:05 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A833E4C.B6EC0A30@att.net> Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 19:48:12 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, computernetworks@excite.com Subject: Re: LF: ARRL LF news and my LF shack References: <16883831.981672639376.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John, I claim no credit for any inaccuracies stated in this article. I am not the author. I was asked by Rick Lindquist, N1RL, ARRL Senior News Editor for information about my recent LF receptions. I submitted information to him about MY receptions only. All information other than what directly pertains to me came from other sources. 73, Dexter john sexton wrote: > > Hi Dexter, > Vy interesting to read your article and see your shack - a lot of kit there! > A couple of points though. The name is John not Jim. More importantly Sandy, > WB5MMB, says that the line at 136.750 is not the WA2XTF beacon. He measured > the beacon at 136.7446 and sent a jpg showing the effects of the crystal > temperature change during keying. > Tonight I am monitoring 136.7446 and seeing a line at 136.74475. However it > doesn't show the cyclic change reported by Sandy. > It is now 22.46 and I will leave it monitoring until 08.00 tomorrow and let > you know what I see. > I have a Loran line at 136744.8993 Hz, which I have identified earlier from > a wider view and so can be very precise about the frequency, at least to .01 > Hz. > Vy 73, John, G4CNN From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19612 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 00:04:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 00:04:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 1474 invoked from network); 9 Feb 2001 00:07:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 9 Feb 2001 00:07:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14R0xM-0008C6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 23:58:32 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.40.143]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14R0xL-0008C1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 23:58:31 +0000 Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-117-69.bellatlantic.net [151.200.117.69]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA04513; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 18:58:07 -0500 (EST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A8332BC.39E7E0E7@bellatlantic.net> Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 18:58:53 -0500 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: "lf-amrad" , "AMRAD Tacos" Subject: Re: LF: ARRL LF news and my LF shack References: <3A82C8BB.E6CBDFF7@att.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Kudos, Dexter, and an excellent "plug" for our LF allocations :-) Keep up the good work Andre' N4ICK Dexter McIntyre W4DEX wrote: > A picture of my LF shack and recent LF news can be seen at: > > http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2001/02/06/2/?nc=1 > > Dexter, W4DEX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28295 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 23:43:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 23:43:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 22399 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 23:46:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 23:46:39 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14R0h4-0008AA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 23:41:42 +0000 Received: from hs-img-5.compuserve.com ([149.174.177.154] helo=sphmgaae.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14R0h3-0008A5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 23:41:41 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by sphmgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id SAA17718 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 18:41:23 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 18:40:54 -0500 From: "boffin1" Subject: LF: Re: SV: RE: Interference from fluorescent tube To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200102081841_MC2-C4B5-CD56@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Over 50 yars ago flourescent ligjts were installed in the radio astronomy research laboratories at Jodrell Bank. They proved disasterous for our detecton of low level signals from the depths of the universe and we resorted to incandescent filaments. I do not recall the name of the manufacturer of the flourescent tubes, I must be getting old! 73, Roger. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12254 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 23:28:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 23:28:24 -0000 Received: (qmail 24310 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 23:31:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 23:31:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14R0Rw-00084S-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 23:26:04 +0000 Received: from hs-img-5.compuserve.com ([149.174.177.154] helo=sphmgaae.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14R0Rs-00084N-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 23:26:00 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by sphmgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id SAA15468 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 18:25:45 -0500 (EST) Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 18:24:59 -0500 From: "boffin1" Subject: LF: Earthing the mast To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200102081825_MC2-C4B5-CCCA@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Keep up the good work! It all makes sense re vector potential and all that. 73, Roger. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6977 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 22:57:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 22:57:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 166 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 23:00:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 23:00:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QzuR-0007n4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 22:51:27 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ewey-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.191] helo=ewey.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QzuQ-0007mx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 22:51:26 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from chilly.excite.com ([199.172.153.77]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010208225039.PYMU25056.ewey.excite.com@chilly.excite.com> for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 14:50:39 -0800 Message-ID: <16883831.981672639376.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 14:50:16 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: ARRL LF news and my LF shack MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 213.104.149.222 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Dexter, Vy interesting to read your article and see your shack - a lot of kit there! A couple of points though. The name is John not Jim. More importantly Sandy, WB5MMB, says that the line at 136.750 is not the WA2XTF beacon. He measured the beacon at 136.7446 and sent a jpg showing the effects of the crystal temperature change during keying. Tonight I am monitoring 136.7446 and seeing a line at 136.74475. However it doesn't show the cyclic change reported by Sandy. It is now 22.46 and I will leave it monitoring until 08.00 tomorrow and let you know what I see. I have a Loran line at 136744.8993 Hz, which I have identified earlier from a wider view and so can be very precise about the frequency, at least to .01 Hz. Vy 73, John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10408 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 20:57:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 20:57:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 29742 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 20:57:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 20:57:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Qy1K-00075m-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 20:50:26 +0000 Received: from lepidachrosite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Qy1J-00075h-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 20:50:25 +0000 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust145.tnt22.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.116.138.145]) by lepidachrosite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 0FD09CBBB9 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 20:49:51 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <00bd01c09208$af6ca320$78d41ad4@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001f01c091d3$8bb81d40$d3d8883e@default> Subject: LF: Re: Loran Lines. Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 20:36:09 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Martin, At my location, about 10 miles from the coast and 40km SE of Amsterdam I hear LORAN during daytime, when the local noise level is sufficiently low. Suggestion: First tune to 00kHz to learn how LORAN sounds and then gradually move to 137kHz to find at what frequency LORAN is no longer detectable. 73, Dick, PA0SE ----- Oorspronkelijk bericht ----- Van: Martin Evans Aan: Verzonden: donderdag 8 februari 2001 13:30 Onderwerp: LF: Loran Lines. > Hello everyone. A simple query to give us all a rest from the hi-tech stuff. > I've been listening on 137 for a year or so and in that time I have NEVER > seen any Loran lines. People tell me that if I can't see them, I should get > myself a decent receiver. I receive all the usual stuff OK, though I can't > get any amateur signals outside UK/EI. I am using a TS950 and an untuned > 30m horizontal wire. The noise level increases appreciably when I connect > the antenna to the rig, which suggests to me that the receiver sensitivity > isn't a problem. I have assumed that my problem is high local noise, so when > the opportunity arose recently, I went up into the Brecon Beacons National > Park with a battery-powered Lowe HF150 and my laptop. Connecting the > receiver to a convenient wire fence I received G3OLB as a whacking great > signal- but no Loran! This was in a location at least 5km from the nearest > mains electricity of any kind and the background on spectrogram was > beautifully clean. So what's what? Should I really be seeing Loran lines or > are there other people in Western Europe for whom the Loran is just a name? > Help Please! > Martin Evans GW3UCJ. > Located in the Swansea Valley in South Wales. > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23286 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 19:03:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 19:03:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 19470 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 19:03:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 19:03:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QwFm-0006UM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 18:57:14 +0000 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QwFi-0006UH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 18:57:11 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer (man-095.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.41.118]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.2/8.11.2/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id f18Iut328758 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 18:56:55 GMT Message-ID: <009801c09201$6e10ef00$7629f7c2@oemcomputer> From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3A82A871.10106.10C3490@localhost> Subject: Re: LF: Loran Lines. Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 18:59:09 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: Mike Dennison To: Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 2:08 PM Subject: Re: LF: Loran Lines. > GW3UCJ wrote: > > > Hello everyone. A simple query to give us all a rest from the hi-tech > > stuff. I've been listening on 137 for a year or so and in that time I > > have NEVER seen any Loran lines. People tell me that if I can't see > > them, I should get myself a decent receiver. I receive all the usual > > stuff OK, though I can't get any amateur signals outside UK/EI. I am > > using a TS950 and an untuned 30m horizontal wire. > > Away from the south coast of England, Loran is not strong. Try listening on 87 kHz in the Yorkshire Dales! 73 de John Rabson G3PAI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24885 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 18:15:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 18:15:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 4289 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 18:15:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 18:15:03 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QvVp-0006Fq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 18:09:45 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QvVp-0006Cv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 18:09:45 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14QvVV-0004Bh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 18:09:25 +0000 Message-ID: <2706.200102081809@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 18:13:31 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Beacon sigs / WA2XTF beacons X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF group, I transmitted beacon signals last night from 2010 until 0320 last night, on 135.9230kHz - using the same 1/2 hour per callsign format as before. I hope to be on again tonight. Thanks to WB5MMB for the info on the AMRAD beacon, and also to W4DEX for the news stories. Interesting to see that the beacon has been reported by G4CNN - however, now I am a little confused - are there 2 beacons? I seem to remember there were, but that one was not operating. Clearly, the one on John's screen shot reported in the ARRL news is a different signal and frequency to the 136.7446kHz one described by Sandy. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25017 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 17:55:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 17:55:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 12354 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 17:55:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 17:55:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QvBn-00065Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 17:49:03 +0000 Received: from phoenix.coastalnet.com ([216.10.160.35]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QvBj-00065S-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 17:48:59 +0000 Received: from dad (NBN-TNT2-pool1-135.coastalnet.com [216.10.172.135]) by phoenix.coastalnet.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with SMTP id MAA20029 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:48:11 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <007c01c091f7$5fd63f80$87ac0ad8@dad> From: "David Michael Gaytko // WD4KPD" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20010208104356.09d72570@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: Re: LF: Re: CW-Keying via Soundcard or PC speaker Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 17:48:40 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: hello again RIK... you may not have seen a previous note to yourself concerning my reasoning for soundcard output on vfsk/dfcw/qrss. as i am in the USA, i don't have an LF allocation, but i surely could use them on 80m and 160m for lowpower comms and beacons. i have poor antennas for these bands, so need all the help i can get. i intend to use ssb and keep the power output way down to protect the tx. i believe i could run 1 to 2 watts all day long on my setup. so this is my reasoning to request soundcard outputs. thank you for the consideration. david From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14204 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 16:35:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 16:35:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 15645 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 16:35:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 16:35:21 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QtuZ-0005fo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 16:27:11 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.47]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QtuY-0005fj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 16:27:10 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from att.net ([12.77.30.185]) by mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.10 201-229-121-110) with ESMTP id <20010208162626.ZEOU7738.mtiwmhc22.worldnet.att.net@att.net> for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 16:26:26 +0000 Message-ID: <3A82C8BB.E6CBDFF7@att.net> Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 11:26:35 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "RSGB LF" Subject: LF: ARRL LF news and my LF shack Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: A picture of my LF shack and recent LF news can be seen at: http://www.arrl.org/news/stories/2001/02/06/2/?nc=1 Dexter, W4DEX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26634 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 16:20:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 16:20:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 23974 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 16:24:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 16:24:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Qtl3-0005ai-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 16:17:21 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.138] (helo=ruthenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Qtl2-0005ad-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 16:17:20 +0000 Received: from [213.122.173.244] (helo=dave) by ruthenium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14Qtkk-0007CU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 16:17:03 +0000 Message-ID: <001201c091ea$e7140e80$f4ad7ad5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001f01c091d3$8bb81d40$d3d8883e@default> Subject: LF: Re: Loran Lines. Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 16:17:08 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Martin Evans writes: >I've been listening on 137 for a year or so and in that time I have NEVER >seen any Loran lines There certainly would seem to be something wrong in the receive set up if you cannot hear (or see) Loran. Certainly Steve GW4ALG in Chepstow receives it 'well' (ie strong enough to be a nuisance) and I would have thought with a significant sea path between you and Lessay it would probably be stronger than it is here. Here in Bracknell Loran is always present, but at a too low level to cause real problems - it does vary a lot from day to day but its chatter is clearly audible on the receiver. Steve has commented that Loran has been weaker with him recently, and it is probably so here as well, but is clearly audible on my loop. Vertical antennas seem to pick it up stronger than loops. As for 'seeing' Loran on Argo (and I confess to have been playing with that) there is no doubt at all, you can't miss it (provided you have the sensitivity etc correct so you can see the background noise). The only use of Loran on Argo in my case is as a reference to calibrate the drift of my FT101ZD vfo - back to more traditional modes me thinks... Either as suggested you have a high local noise level (and untuned long wires are NOT the best for lf) or you have lack of receive sensitivity (possibly crossmod, but you do have front end selectivity don't you). You should be able to hear at least some of the continentals, some of them are quite strong! 73s Dave G3YMC dsergeant@btinternet.com dsergeant@iee.org http://www.btinternet.com/~dsergeant From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9880 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 16:09:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 16:09:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 7627 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 16:09:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 16:09:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QtW1-0005Ve-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 16:01:49 +0000 Received: from [195.47.110.226] (helo=dell1.gmccz.cz.gmc.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QtVz-0005VY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 16:01:48 +0000 Received: from p (p.maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net [192.168.1.22]) by dell1.gmccz.cz.gmc.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id DV58S48K; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 17:02:55 +0100 Message-ID: <012e01c091e8$4bbd20e0$1601a8c0@maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3A832AC0.910921B5@ns.sympatico.ca> Subject: Re: LF: Re. g3AQC copied etc Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 17:00:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: To: Sent: Friday, February 09, 2001 12:24 AM Subject: Re: LF: Re. g3AQC copied etc > Hi Laurie condx last 2 days here poor . Have only seen t/m copy on BMU > and > XTZ. Have you been transmitting on same frequency? > Condx funny because German stations 128.9 and DCF39 Have been S-8 > to S-9 > at times. Usually S-5 to S-6. But very little coming from UK > 73 de John VE1ZJ > It sounds like a good chance for stations from the Central Europe... 73 Petr 'FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8852 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 15:41:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 15:41:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 25789 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 15:44:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 15:44:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Qt4e-0005Kn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 15:33:32 +0000 Received: from cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.177]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Qt4a-0005Kh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 15:33:28 +0000 Received: from modem-48.elostirion.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.186.48] helo=lvm) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14Qt4H-0007y7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 15:33:10 +0000 Message-ID: <001601c091e4$f83a1160$30ba883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re. g3AQC copied etc Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 15:36:55 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello John, I missed a couple of nights xmitter trouble.Was on last night 135.922 QRS 60sec. and will be on again tonight. 73s Laurie. -----Original Message----- From: John Currie To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 08 February 2001 15:19 Subject: Re: LF: Re. g3AQC copied etc >Hi Laurie condx last 2 days here poor . Have only seen t/m copy on BMU and >XTZ. Have you been transmitting on same frequency? > Condx funny because German stations 128.9 and DCF39 Have been S-8 to S-9 >at times. Usually S-5 to S-6. But very little coming from UK > 73 de John VE1ZJ > >LAWRENCE MAYHEAD wrote: > >> Jon, I forgot, I would like to have a look at your screen shot if possible. >> 73s Laurie > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20265 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 15:12:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 15:12:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 11562 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 15:16:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 15:16:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Qsiu-0005FE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 15:11:04 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Qsit-0005F8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 15:11:03 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.229.97]) by jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:10:34 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A832AC0.910921B5@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 15:24:49 -0800 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re. g3AQC copied etc References: <000101c091cf$15d03bc0$4695883e@lvm> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Laurie condx last 2 days here poor . Have only seen t/m copy on BMU and XTZ. Have you been transmitting on same frequency? Condx funny because German stations 128.9 and DCF39 Have been S-8 to S-9 at times. Usually S-5 to S-6. But very little coming from UK 73 de John VE1ZJ LAWRENCE MAYHEAD wrote: > Jon, I forgot, I would like to have a look at your screen shot if possible. > 73s Laurie From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22711 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 14:53:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 14:53:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 14122 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 14:57:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 14:57:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QsK2-00053j-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 14:45:22 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.48]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QsK0-00053d-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 14:45:21 +0000 Received: from att.net ([12.77.25.201]) by mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.10 201-229-121-110) with ESMTP id <20010208144429.XWBG19355.mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net@att.net> for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 14:44:29 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A82B0D5.A94E2C6D@att.net> Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 09:44:37 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 135.9 last night in NC References: <3A828EA3.30337.A76827@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike, I just reviewed last nights screen shots. About 0030 I started seeing hits on .923 and .924 which now look familiar and are most likely AQC and BMU. About ten minuets later I started receiving QRN and the rest of the night was a complete wipe out. From the lightning WX map this noise was coming from over 1000 miles to the SW of my QTH. Looks like the nights of low noise are about over here in SE USA. Maybe there will be something on Jon's, W1JHJ, screen shots captured last night. I will continue to listen whenever QRN permits. Dex Mike Dennison wrote: > Dex, > Last night I moved down by 0.25Hz to 135.9235, half a hertz HF of > M0BMU. That should put me well clear of your QRM! I transmitted all > night, sending 'XDV XDV' with 30s dot speed. > > Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) > http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2768 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 14:31:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 14:31:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 10474 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 14:34:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 14:34:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Qrxs-0004uH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 14:22:28 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Qrxr-0004uC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 14:22:27 +0000 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14Qrxb-0006Ii-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 14:22:11 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <14767.200102081422@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 14:26:18 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Loran Lines. In-reply-to: <001f01c091d3$8bb81d40$d3d8883e@default> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Martin and Group, Most of the Loran noise seems to come from Lessay on the French coast, which is much nearer SE England than Wales, so one would expect the Loran noise to be relatively weak at your QTH. At my QTH (Hertfordshire), Loran is often the limiting factor on receive sensitivity when QRM/QRN is low. If Loran is not a factor, you should be able to hear a crackle of QRN, especially after dark. Perhaps the other GW stations could tell you what to expect. A possible reason you are experiencing general lack of sensitivity might be receiver front-end overload. Most RXs just have a low- pass front end filter for the LF/MF range, and the non-resonant antenna means your RX is being bombarded with LF and MF broadcast signals, and powerful LF commercial stations, all of which will be vastly stronger than tiny amateur signals, which consequently will get buried by assorted intermods, blocking, etc. If this is the case, tuning the antenna (as described by G4GVC in the LF handbook), or using a preselector, (G3YXM's design, for example) might improve the situation greatly. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22178 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 14:22:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 14:22:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 10642 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 14:22:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 14:22:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Qrqi-0004tV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 14:15:04 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QrqY-0004tO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 14:14:55 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 14:08:51 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 14:08:49 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Loran Lines. Message-ID: <3A82A871.10106.10C3490@localhost> In-reply-to: <001f01c091d3$8bb81d40$d3d8883e@default> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: GW3UCJ wrote: > Hello everyone. A simple query to give us all a rest from the hi-tech > stuff. I've been listening on 137 for a year or so and in that time I > have NEVER seen any Loran lines. People tell me that if I can't see > them, I should get myself a decent receiver. I receive all the usual > stuff OK, though I can't get any amateur signals outside UK/EI. I am > using a TS950 and an untuned 30m horizontal wire. Away from the south coast of England, Loran is not strong. However, you are right to regard them as a useful guide to sensitivity as anyone in the southern half of the UK should be able to hear Loran on a quiet day and see the lines on a spectrogram all of the time. The fact that you are not hearing anyone outside of G/EI tends to confirm that there is a problem. I operate from Pembrokeshire from time to time, and can hear Loran on a loop as well as various wires, including fencing. I also regularly hear DL, HB and SM. >From your description, it seems to me that you need to build a tuner for your wire. A random untuned wire will receive the strong amateur stuff, plus lots of extremely strong out of band signals which will do their best to inter-mix and produce what you see as 'noise'. It will also attract local noise such as those from TV timebase, SMPSUs and computer games. Try winding a coil of a couple of hundred turns, liberally tapped, on a plastic bin. Earth one end, tap your receiver a few turns from the earthy end, and connect the antenna higher up the coil, taps adjusted for best reception of DCF on 138.8kHz. Another thought is your earth. Do you have a reliable RF earth? If not, a single stake in the ground is likely to perform better than a connection to the mains earth. If all this simply raises the noise level in line with the signal increase, try taking the tapped coil out for some portable tests as before. Good luck. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20137 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 13:35:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 13:35:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 2981 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 13:38:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 13:38:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QrBA-0004e4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 13:32:08 +0000 Received: from cmailg5.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.175]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QrB7-0004dz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 13:32:06 +0000 Received: from modem-115.orange-shoulder-tang.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.42.243] helo=default) by cmailg5.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14QrAq-0005lj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 13:31:49 +0000 Message-ID: <001f01c091d3$8bb81d40$d3d8883e@default> From: "Martin Evans" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Loran Lines. Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:30:06 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello everyone. A simple query to give us all a rest from the hi-tech stuff. I've been listening on 137 for a year or so and in that time I have NEVER seen any Loran lines. People tell me that if I can't see them, I should get myself a decent receiver. I receive all the usual stuff OK, though I can't get any amateur signals outside UK/EI. I am using a TS950 and an untuned 30m horizontal wire. The noise level increases appreciably when I connect the antenna to the rig, which suggests to me that the receiver sensitivity isn't a problem. I have assumed that my problem is high local noise, so when the opportunity arose recently, I went up into the Brecon Beacons National Park with a battery-powered Lowe HF150 and my laptop. Connecting the receiver to a convenient wire fence I received G3OLB as a whacking great signal- but no Loran! This was in a location at least 5km from the nearest mains electricity of any kind and the background on spectrogram was beautifully clean. So what's what? Should I really be seeing Loran lines or are there other people in Western Europe for whom the Loran is just a name? Help Please! Martin Evans GW3UCJ. Located in the Swansea Valley in South Wales. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26968 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 12:59:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 12:59:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 28646 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 13:02:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 13:02:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Qqcw-0004Si-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 12:56:46 +0000 Received: from mail4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.211]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Qqcv-0004Sc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 12:56:45 +0000 Received: from modem-70.curufinwe.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.149.70] helo=lvm) by mail4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14Qqcf-0004xb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 12:56:30 +0000 Message-ID: <000101c091cf$15d03bc0$4695883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: Re. g3AQC copied etc Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:59:32 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jon, I forgot, I would like to have a look at your screen shot if possible. 73s Laurie From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21652 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 12:50:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 12:50:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 29303 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 12:53:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 12:53:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QqSt-0004Ne-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 12:46:23 +0000 Received: from cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.176]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QqSs-0004NZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 12:46:22 +0000 Received: from modem-232.erchamion.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.195.232] helo=lvm) by cmailg6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14QqSd-0006ud-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 12:46:07 +0000 Message-ID: <000101c091cd$a2e4ca00$e8c3883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: Re. G3AQC copied in Plymouth MA Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:49:14 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks Jon for your report and congratulations, terrific for a small whip ant., I have never belived in using a big Tx ant. for recieve. Whats snagit? please I havnt heard of this. Andy I saw your signal and since I was a bit low moved up 0.25 Hz, guess we finished up 0.5hz apart. Hope to be on again tonight. 73s all Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4108 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 12:41:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 12:41:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 17584 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 12:45:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 12:45:35 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QqLK-0004Iw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 12:38:34 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QqLJ-0004Ir-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 12:38:33 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.102.198]) by jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 08:38:14 -0400 Message-ID: <3A82D9E1.837317AF@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 12:39:45 -0500 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: lf tests Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all Last night condx were not good here Only saw "T" copy from (I believe) M0BMU. Definitely Jim or G3XTZ. At times 128.9 and DCF39 were S-6 to S-8 still G stations were weak Was using 30 sec dots. Also local noise was low . With 30 sec dots Even poor prop seems to let some signals sneak through. First saw traces around 2100Z Will be looking tonight 200Z to 0000 Z and 0400 to 0500 Z 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29569 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 12:38:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 12:38:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 10315 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 12:41:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 12:41:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QqEW-0004IE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 12:31:32 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QqEV-0004I9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 12:31:31 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 12:18:45 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:18:43 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: 135.9 last night in NC Message-ID: <3A828EA3.30337.A76827@localhost> In-reply-to: <3A8174EE.1A71F358@att.net> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Mike, If you were on 135.92375 I may not see you due to a continuous > signal I have there close to .9237. Several times I have suspected > there was a QRSS signal maybe .05 hz above this line. I will upload > one shot from last night. With Argo119 I have learned how to adjust > the Hz scale for actual frequency readout. This is the segment I > normally view. If you are transmitting near this continuous signal, > moving +/- .1 hz or so would put you in the clear here. Dex, Last night I moved down by 0.25Hz to 135.9235, half a hertz HF of M0BMU. That should put me well clear of your QRM! I transmitted all night, sending 'XDV XDV' with 30s dot speed. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13112 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 12:19:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 12:19:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 1414 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 12:21:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 12:21:58 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Qpwd-0004Cv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 12:13:03 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Qpwb-0004Cq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 12:13:01 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id MAA17325; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:14:34 GMT Received: (qmail 21770 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 13:05:43 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 13:05:43 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id MAA01553; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:55:49 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma001322; Thu, 8 Feb 01 12:54:37 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-3.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:15:31 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-3.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1N1CYG1Z>; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:11:30 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D75AB@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: G3AQC Copied in Plymouth, MA Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 12:11:36 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I was transmitting 0.2 then 0.1Hz shift DFCW centred around 135921.5 for the last two nights until approx 0100z. If your much weaker signal was as much as 15dB weaker........ (I'd be very very surprised if you were getting anything at that level, but can hope) In fact the oscillator in the Tx is low in frequency by 0.15ppm, so the actual freqs of last nights transmission were 135921.43 Hz (dashes) and 135921.53Hz (dots). Must bring the frequency setting twiddle pot out to the front panel or include a calibration facility in the DDS driving software to minutely adjust the stored clock frequency. Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: Jonathan Jesse [mailto:w1jhj@netzero.net] > Sent: 2001-02-08 11:19 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: [Lowfer] G3AQC Copied in Plymouth, MA > > > For the last few nights, I've been running ARGO and seeing traces on > 135.92???. I ran Snagit over night and was greeted with > G3AQC's signal in > my captures at about 0600z. AQC came up nicely at about > 0300z and faded at > about 0740z. Have another sig just about 1hz higher and > another about 2hz > lower but I > haven't tried to identify them yet. They are much weaker > than AQC and only > bits and pieces. > Who might they be? I have screen shots if anyone is interested. > Running a Yaesu FT-100 and active 1 meter whip antenna at 40 feet. > > > Thanks and 73, > Jon > W1JHJ > Plymouth, MA > FN41qw > http://geocities.com/ws1k.rm > > > > Shop online without a credit card > http://www.rocketcash.com > RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3746 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 11:43:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 11:43:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 1380 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 11:37:44 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 11:37:44 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QpEW-0003xB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 11:27:28 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail7.wlv.netzero.net ([209.247.163.57]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QpEU-0003x4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 11:27:26 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 24925 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 11:25:59 -0000 Received: from pppa96-resaleplymouth1-1r7204.dialinx.net (HELO lazzo) (4.54.152.157) by mail7.wlv.netzero.net with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 11:25:59 -0000 Message-ID: <3.0.3.32.20010208061857.017bc0b0@pop.netzero.net> X-Sender: w1jhj@pop.netzero.net X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.3 (32) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 06:18:57 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Jonathan Jesse" Subject: LF: [Lowfer] G3AQC Copied in Plymouth, MA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: For the last few nights, I've been running ARGO and seeing traces on 135.92???. I ran Snagit over night and was greeted with G3AQC's signal in my captures at about 0600z. AQC came up nicely at about 0300z and faded at about 0740z. Have another sig just about 1hz higher and another about 2hz lower but I haven't tried to identify them yet. They are much weaker than AQC and only bits and pieces. Who might they be? I have screen shots if anyone is interested. Running a Yaesu FT-100 and active 1 meter whip antenna at 40 feet. Thanks and 73, Jon W1JHJ Plymouth, MA FN41qw http://geocities.com/ws1k.rm Shop online without a credit card http://www.rocketcash.com RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17525 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 11:35:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 11:35:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 3918 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 11:38:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 11:38:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QpGL-0003xJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 11:29:21 +0000 Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.45]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QpGK-0003xE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 11:29:20 +0000 Received: from compaq ([62.253.48.114]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010208112905.CAWV18404.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@compaq> for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:29:05 +0000 Message-ID: <00d401c091c2$59212040$c030fd3e@compaq> From: "tracey.gardner" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Fw: [Lowfer] G3AQC Copied in Plymouth, MA Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 11:29:05 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: -----Original Message----- From: Jonathan Jesse To: lowfer@qth.net Date: 08 February 2001 11:15 Subject: [Lowfer] G3AQC Copied in Plymouth, MA >For the last few nights, I've been running ARGO and seeing traces on >135.92???. I ran Snagit over night and was greeted with G3AQC's signal in >my captures at about 0600z. Have another sig just about 1hz higher but I >haven't tried to identify it yet. It is much weaker than AQC. >Running a Yaesu FT-100 and active 1 meter whip antenna at 40 feet. > >Could someone please cross post this to the UK list. > >Thanks and 73, >Jon >W1JHJ >Plymouth, MA >FN41qw >http://geocities.com/ws1k.rm > >Shop online without a credit card >http://www.rocketcash.com >RocketCash, a NetZero subsidiary >To unsubscribe, send to MAJORDOMO@qth.net "unsubscribe lowfer" (Do not >send to list!!) Send on list submissions to lowfer@qth.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20441 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 09:50:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 09:50:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 8515 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 09:54:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 09:54:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Qnh6-0003QA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 09:48:52 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from d06lmsgate-2.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Qnh5-0003Q5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 09:48:51 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.147]) by d06lmsgate-2.uk.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id JAA106352 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:33:34 GMT Received: from usa.net (ss7.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.72]) by d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id JAA209910 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:46:43 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A826AF0.307EC000@usa.net> Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 10:46:24 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: CW-Keying via Soundcard or PC speaker References: <9c.b79b2c8.27b31b6f@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > [snip] > So, if possible, stay above 2kHz, then you don't even need a sine wave. > [snip] Well, if you use a perfect square wave, this requirement can be relaxed a bit, as a perfect square wave has only odd harmonic components, so you just need to stay above 1/3 of the audio passband of your TX. The 2 kHz limit can probably be lowered to 1.3 - 1.5 kHz 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12113 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 09:50:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 09:50:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 6151 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 09:44:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 09:44:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QnWw-0003Lm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 09:38:22 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from d06lmsgate-2.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QnWs-0003Le-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 09:38:19 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.147]) by d06lmsgate-2.uk.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id JAA79234 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:22:11 GMT Received: from usa.net (ss7.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.72]) by d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id JAA178324 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:36:17 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A82687E.AB83D237@usa.net> Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 10:35:58 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: G3XTZ copied at W3EEE 0400z+/- Feb.7th. References: <200102071833.f17IXMN25509@galahad.joust.net> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Steve Dove wrote: > [snip] > The colours got fnargled when the screens were captured (anyone > know a fix for that?), but the characters are still plainly visible; > maybe others can recognize other senders or themselves in amongst > the zoo. Anybody want them? > [snip] Steve, are you perhaps running Windows with the desktop set to 256 colours only ? That is the more common cause of colour corruption when capturing with Argo. If you set the colour depth to HiColor (65536 colours) or TrueColor (16M colours) the captured screen will be exactly as you see it when the program runs. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15391 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 08:57:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 08:57:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 29208 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 09:01:06 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 09:01:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QmpW-000374-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 08:53:30 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QmpT-00036z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 08:53:27 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA180094 for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 09:53:12 +0100 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010208104356.09d72570@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 08 Feb 2001 10:43:56 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: CW-Keying via Soundcard or PC speaker In-reply-to: <009001c09166$3f71fae0$7479f5cd@wd4kpd> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi David, as far as I know 90% of all 136kHz transmitters used in Europe are straight CW transmitters with no possibility to modulate SSB. So the most easy (and efficient) way to get QRSS is just keying the TX, for DFCW you can FSK the oscillator. But I intend to make the QRS software as versatile as possible (within reasonable limits) so the next version will probably have soundcard output facilities, but with the option to disable this part in case you encounter conflicts with other software using the soundcard. 73, Rik ON7YD At 00:29 8/02/01 -0000, you wrote: >good info, but the questions beg to be asked...if audio tones can be used >for afsk on all these digimodes, why not vfsk/dfcw/qrss etc. the audio is >just audio. while i know that there is some small problems with overdriving >the tx and generating spurious tones, why can not vfsk/dfsk use the same >techniques as all the other modes? > >i confess i am not a programmer, so dont know about what is involved, but if >one program can do it and not cause problems, then another could also be >made to act the same. > >david From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14885 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 04:32:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 04:32:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 15901 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 04:35:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 04:35:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Qiil-0001vY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 04:30:15 +0000 Received: from phoenix.coastalnet.com ([216.10.160.35]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Qiii-0001vT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 04:30:13 +0000 Received: from wd4kpd (pm-wsh4-157.coastalnet.com [205.245.121.157]) by phoenix.coastalnet.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with SMTP id XAA25525 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 23:29:27 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <001701c09187$ca8fad40$9d79f5cd@wd4kpd> From: "David Michael Gaytko" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: CW-Keying via Soundcard or PC speaker Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 04:29:55 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ok i get what you are saying....as i am in the US, i was interested in qrss and the other programs for use on 80m and 160m for lowpower ops and dx. so my setup would only be on ssb with low power, and i think that with vfsk/dfcw using one second or less characters would give no problem. david -----Original Message----- From: WarmSpgs@aol.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thursday, February 08, 2001 04:21 GMT Subject: Re: LF: Re: CW-Keying via Soundcard or PC speaker >The problem with using a soundcard output to a mic input is not in the >programming aspect, but is a question of efficiency and possibly power >dissipation. Guys who key Class C, D, and E amplifiers have enough trouble >with the duty cycle of QRSS sometimes. Imagine what a linear amp for SSB >might do at full carrier continuously for a minute. It's really, really much >easier to optoisolate an I/O port and use old fashioned on-off keying in most >cases. > >73, >John > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20625 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 04:06:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 04:06:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 5760 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 04:10:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 04:10:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QiId-0001la-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 04:03:15 +0000 Received: from imo-r02.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QiIb-0001lV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 04:03:13 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-r02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.85.69a315b (3968) for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 23:02:14 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <85.69a315b.27b37446@aol.com> Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 23:02:14 EST Subject: Re: LF: Re: CW-Keying via Soundcard or PC speaker To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The problem with using a soundcard output to a mic input is not in the programming aspect, but is a question of efficiency and possibly power dissipation. Guys who key Class C, D, and E amplifiers have enough trouble with the duty cycle of QRSS sometimes. Imagine what a linear amp for SSB might do at full carrier continuously for a minute. It's really, really much easier to optoisolate an I/O port and use old fashioned on-off keying in most cases. 73, John From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1462 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 03:20:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 03:20:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 1729 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 03:23:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 03:23:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QhXb-0001Tc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 03:14:39 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from immtapop3.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.40.140]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QhXZ-0001TX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 03:14:37 +0000 Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-118-169.bellatlantic.net [151.200.118.169]) by immtapop3.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id WAA11295; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 22:14:19 -0500 (EST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A820F50.140848B8@bellatlantic.net> Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 22:15:29 -0500 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: lf@amrad.org Subject: Re: LF: AMRAD Beacon References: <01C09150.9C612FC0.esanders@erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Nan and Sandy Sanders wrote: > Here is what the amrad beacon looks like with > ARGO 119 set at 120s dots, fast . It has > about .1 HZ shift as xtal heats on key down. It reminds me of one of my first transmitters: a ARC-5 "Command Set" that sounded "tuwee-ty-tuwee-ty" Ahh, nostalgia... Andre' N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15780 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 03:03:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 03:03:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 4343 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 02:57:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 02:57:34 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QhA8-0001KE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 02:50:24 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.60]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QhA6-0001K9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 02:50:22 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from 66-44-56-230.s230.tnt2.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.56.230] helo=nan-and-sandy) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.16 #5) id 14Qh9k-0002hX-00 ; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 21:50:01 -0500 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 21:54:57 -0500 Message-ID: <01C09150.9C612FC0.esanders@erols.com> From: "Nan and Sandy Sanders" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: lf@amrad.org Subject: LF: AMRAD Beacon Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 21:54:50 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------060402000800030309080501" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------060402000800030309080501 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Here is what the amrad beacon looks like with ARGO 119 set at 120s dots, fast . It has about .1 HZ shift as xtal heats on key down. There is also a smaller longer term shift as the shack heating system cycles. The transmiter is Ropex with xtal mounted on perf board with a trimmer cap. I measure the frequency at about 136,744.6HZ. The few nights that I have looked for and copied signals from across the pond, the signals are there for 1/2 hr to a little over 1 hr with the longer times early in the night. 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7j/zjpM88vmZnjjjIXTwFiQRrt9c3KgDO7Zwv/nHb+/80fKw/wCJXed0zU/8i/8AObv4X//Z --------------060402000800030309080501-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27562 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 00:32:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 00:32:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 2985 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 00:35:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 00:35:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QeyN-0000ca-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 00:30:07 +0000 Received: from phoenix.coastalnet.com ([216.10.160.35]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QeyL-0000cV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 08 Feb 2001 00:30:06 +0000 Received: from wd4kpd (pm-wsh3-116.coastalnet.com [205.245.121.116]) by phoenix.coastalnet.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with SMTP id TAA24541 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 19:29:20 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <009001c09166$3f71fae0$7479f5cd@wd4kpd> From: "David Michael Gaytko" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: CW-Keying via Soundcard or PC speaker Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 00:29:48 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: good info, but the questions beg to be asked...if audio tones can be used for afsk on all these digimodes, why not vfsk/dfcw/qrss etc. the audio is just audio. while i know that there is some small problems with overdriving the tx and generating spurious tones, why can not vfsk/dfsk use the same techniques as all the other modes? i confess i am not a programmer, so dont know about what is involved, but if one program can do it and not cause problems, then another could also be made to act the same. david -----Original Message----- From: DL4YHF@aol.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 22:13 GMT Subject: LF: CW-Keying via Soundcard or PC speaker >Hello Rik, hello group, > >Consider this for 'audio keying' a transmitter to generate CW (morse code >with >ON/OFF keying) or DFCW (morse code using AFSK): > >As long as you keep the audio frequency higher than half of your >transmitter's audio bandwith, you will not have problems -whatever waveform >you are using, because the harmonics of the audio wave would be out of the TX >passband. You could even use a square wave (which is the only possibility for >the PC speaker). > >If you use an audio frequency lower than half of the TX audio bandwith, your >signal will be audible on at least TWO frequencies if there is the slightest >harmonic distortion. And, on 137kHz, this unwanted emission will most >certainly be 'out of band'... (made that experience myself a few weeks ago). > >So, if possible, stay above 2kHz, then you don't even need a sine wave. > >The problem with Win95 (and later stuff) is, programming the speaker is not >as easy as under the good ole DOS, because direct access to the hardware >ports is almost impossible (at least for a 'well behaving' windoze program). > >If necessary, I could include a 'QRSSS' audio keyer in SpecLab, but I guess >Rik is the 'expert' in this business and I don't want to invent the wheel >twice. > >73's Wolf. > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21770 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 23:58:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 23:58:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 6457 invoked from network); 8 Feb 2001 00:02:33 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 8 Feb 2001 00:02:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QeQ1-0000KO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 23:54:37 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from mozart.unetsul.com.br ([200.247.254.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QePy-0000KJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 23:54:35 +0000 Received: from mailman.endymion.com (mozart.unetsul.com.br [200.247.254.3]) by mozart.unetsul.com.br (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA50465 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 21:55:25 -0200 (EDT) (envelope-from py2pll@py.qsl.br) Message-ID: <200102072355.VAA50465@mozart.unetsul.com.br> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: py2pll@py.qsl.br Subject: LF: Re: SWR X phase X reactive components Date: Wed, 7 Feb 101 23:55:25 +0000 X-Mailer: Endymion MailMan v2.0 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi Bob . . . > > You are venturing into the "operating impedance bridge" (OIB) idea. An > article with some information is "Building an Operating Impedance Bridge" in > QST, Nov 1979, pp 11-17. I think this same OIB was published by ARRL Handbook from 1984 or something like that. Uses a linear sampler + some metal hardware assembled properly .. > I gather that the OIB can work while the > transmitter is in normal service, and R and jX can be read from calibrated > knobs on pots on the secondary side, after a null is found by adjustment. Yes, I remember that. But I'm trying to make it similar to Kachina SWR bridge. And there they use this kind of directional coupler (2 ferrite transformers) and a TTL Dual D flip flop to detect phase and transform this in voltage. So there is 3 voltages and no need to operate anything. A SBL1 mixer can detect phase differences with LO/RF between 3 ... 7dBm within 1° or less from 1 to 500MHz. Ok, that's not LF but the Dual D Flip-flop can be used from some Hertz to 35MHz. The idea is a bench bridge + some micro-controller / portable bug and running from some mW to a watt or so ... Thanks on the info. May be for now a RX noise bridge can do the job :o) 73 Marcus, PY2PLL(Base) / PY3CRX (Mobile) GG66rf - S. B. do Campo - SP hampage => http://py.qsl.br e-mail => py2pll@py.qsl.br Active from DC to 24GHz From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8797 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 23:39:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 23:39:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 21080 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 23:42:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 23:42:10 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Qe8U-0000FT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 23:36:30 +0000 Received: from hs-img-4.compuserve.com ([149.174.177.149] helo=sphmgaad.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Qe8T-0000FO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 23:36:29 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by sphmgaad.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id SAA28527 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 18:36:14 -0500 (EST) Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 18:35:40 -0500 From: "Holger 'Geri', DK8KW" Subject: LF: Slow-Voice QSO -- Interview on LF QSO will be broadcasted by ROI To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200102071836_MC2-C4A2-83C6@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LF group, for those of you capable of understanding German: in the next edition of "Intermedia" of the Austrian Broadcasting Service ROI (Radio Österreich International) there will be a short information on the Slow-Voice QSO that Markus, DF6NM an I had on LF end of last year (more information: www.qru.de/slowvoice.html). The report will include an interview with me and original sound samples from our QSO. For details on frequencies/times of the transmission, please have a look at http://roi.orf.at/intermedia/welcome.html here you can also download an MP3 file of the report (after Friday afternoon), or hear the transmission in Real Audio. Best 73 Geri, W1KW (DK8KW) currently Houston/TX --------------------------------------------------------------------------- ----- Intermedia: Freitag 19.00 Europa 5.945, 6.155 kHz Freitag 19.30 Europa 1.476 kHz Samstag 20.00 Europa 5.945, 6.155 kHz Sonntag 16.30 Europa 6.155, 13.730 kHz alle Zeitangaben in UTC From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29750 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 22:03:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 22:03:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 25787 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 21:57:50 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 21:57:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QcRa-0008Di-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 21:48:06 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail-3.tiscalinet.it ([195.130.225.149] helo=mail.tiscalinet.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QcRZ-0008Dd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 21:48:05 +0000 Received: from ath650 (62.10.38.3) by mail.tiscalinet.it (5.5.015.5) id 3A51DCD1007F293E; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 22:47:19 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 22:47:19 +0100 (added by postmaster@mail.tiscalinet.it) Message-ID: <4.1.20010207223618.00a9ee50@pop.tiscalinet.it> X-Sender: spin.elec@pop.tiscalinet.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Versione 4.1 Data: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 22:46:18 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, lowfer@qth.net, vlf-ita@luca-to.stm.it, sw-ita@mediasuk.org From: "Marco Bruno IK1ODO" Subject: LF: Loop theory article and VLF news In-reply-to: <3A80C0E0.42FAC38C@mlecmn.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, I published a work on loop antenna theory and some construction ideas on Renato Romero, IK1QFK, web site http://www.vlf.it Opinions, suggestions, improvements and so on are welcome - Renato will be happy to host them. We intend to open a technical section of the site, in the "OpenLab" spirit. Also, we have a new contribution by Trond Jacobsen on Russian 82 Hz emissions for the submarine fleet. And more is being prepared - stay tuned! 73 - Marco IK1ODO Marco Bruno - IK1ODO spin.elec@tiscalinet.it SPIN Electronics - www.spin-it.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8921 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 21:55:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 21:55:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 457 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 21:58:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 21:58:00 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QcNo-0008DM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 21:44:12 +0000 Received: from imo-r01.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QcNk-0008DB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 21:44:09 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from DL4YHF@aol.com by imo-r01.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.9c.b79b2c8 (16342) for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:43:12 -0500 (EST) From: DL4YHF@aol.com Message-ID: <9c.b79b2c8.27b31b6f@aol.com> Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:43:11 EST Subject: LF: CW-Keying via Soundcard or PC speaker To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 69 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Rik, hello group, Consider this for 'audio keying' a transmitter to generate CW (morse code with ON/OFF keying) or DFCW (morse code using AFSK): As long as you keep the audio frequency higher than half of your transmitter's audio bandwith, you will not have problems -whatever waveform you are using, because the harmonics of the audio wave would be out of the TX passband. You could even use a square wave (which is the only possibility for the PC speaker). If you use an audio frequency lower than half of the TX audio bandwith, your signal will be audible on at least TWO frequencies if there is the slightest harmonic distortion. And, on 137kHz, this unwanted emission will most certainly be 'out of band'... (made that experience myself a few weeks ago). So, if possible, stay above 2kHz, then you don't even need a sine wave. The problem with Win95 (and later stuff) is, programming the speaker is not as easy as under the good ole DOS, because direct access to the hardware ports is almost impossible (at least for a 'well behaving' windoze program). If necessary, I could include a 'QRSSS' audio keyer in SpecLab, but I guess Rik is the 'expert' in this business and I don't want to invent the wheel twice. 73's Wolf. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20235 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 20:08:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 20:08:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 28253 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 20:02:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 20:02:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Qahr-0007eN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 19:56:47 +0000 Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Qahq-0007eI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 19:56:46 +0000 Received: from mcalevey ([210.54.197.163]) by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010207195610.CCQO12834396.mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz@mcalevey> for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 08:56:10 +1300 Message-ID: <000801c0913f$ba8947a0$a3c536d2@mcalevey> From: "mcalevey" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001c01c08cb5$7364f7e0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> Subject: LF: Re: VA3LK OFF until Feb 5th Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 08:53:31 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Larry I hope you enjoyed your contest. I have watched for CFH but not seen anything on 137.04 since last Thursday. Also last night I had a long look on your frequency but saw nothing. There was a weak signal on 136.500 which appeared to have long dots/dashes at 0930. Do you know if VE1ZZ was on? Mike ZL4OL From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5908 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 19:49:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 19:49:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 21076 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 19:53:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 19:53:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QaYY-0007a0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 19:47:10 +0000 Received: from mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.17]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QaYX-0007Zv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 19:47:09 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.178.164]) by mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010207194642.XAJO4912120.mta5-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Thu, 8 Feb 2001 08:46:42 +1300 Message-ID: <002f01c0913f$8b1a55e0$a4b21bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <00a901c0910c$d7b3e520$0d0e0805@globocabo.com.br> Subject: LF: Re: SWR X phase X reactive components Date: Thu, 8 Feb 2001 08:50:25 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: "PY3CRX PY2PLL" To: "LF Group" Sent: Thursday, February 08, 2001 2:49 AM Subject: LF: SWR X phase X reactive components > I need a help: > > I have an SWR bridge - 2 X 1:40 transformers on a conventional circuit and > from this bridge I have two rectified voltages: forward and reflected. > > On the other side, if I have any reactive component at load side, there will > be difference between source signal phase and load signal phase. > > Using a DBM I'm able to convert this phase difference into voltage. > > The question is: how can I convert degrees in reactive component value? My > phase measurement ranges from -180 to +180 degree on a linear basis, e.g the > phase comparator delivers some mV proportional to degrees. > > Knowing this I'll be able to measure SWR, R and J at the same time. > > Thanks in advance for any help ... > > 73 > Marcus > PY3CRX/PY2PLL > S. B. do Campo - GG66rf > http://py.qsl.br > Active from "DC" to 24GHz > Marcus, You are venturing into the "operating impedance bridge" (OIB) idea. An article with some information is "Building an Operating Impedance Bridge" in QST, Nov 1979, pp 11-17. I gather that the OIB can work while the transmitter is in normal service, and R and jX can be read from calibrated knobs on pots on the secondary side, after a null is found by adjustment. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20341 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 19:12:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 19:12:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 20384 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 19:15:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 19:15:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QZxV-0007Jy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 19:08:53 +0000 Received: from mta05-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.45]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QZxV-0007Jt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 19:08:53 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.100.107]) by mta05-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010207190835.TXFY18404.mta05-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 19:08:35 +0000 Message-ID: <001001c09139$515a2700$6b6468d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200102071833.f17IXMN25509@galahad.joust.net> Subject: LF: Re: G3XTZ copied at W3EEE 0400z+/- Feb.7th. Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 19:08:10 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > I have just confirmed with Graham that he, indeed, is the owner of the > "XTZ" snapped for posterity by Argo last night. Man, it was exciting > watching the grass grow NONONO! real morse characters showing up > on the screen! > The colours got fnargled when the screens were captured (anyone > know a fix for that?), but the characters are still plainly visible; > maybe others can recognize other senders or themselves in amongst > the zoo. Anybody want them? >73 Steve W3EEE (G3YDV) Yes, please. Mike, G3XDV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17783 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 19:11:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 19:11:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 21588 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 19:14:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 19:14:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QZwG-0007Jh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 19:07:36 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [192.139.219.10] (helo=claven.fanshawec.on.ca) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QZwE-0007JW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 19:07:34 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [198.96.18.35] by claven.fanshawec.on.ca with ESMTP for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 14:05:55 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express Macintosh Edition - 4.5 (0410) Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 14:07:11 +0000 Subject: Re: LF: G3XTZ copied at W3EEE 0400z+/- Feb.7th. From: "Mitch Powell" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Priority: 3 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > > I have just confirmed with Graham that he, indeed, is the owner of the > "XTZ" snapped for posterity by Argo last night. Man, it was exciting > watching the grass grow NONONO! real morse characters showing up > on the screen! > > The colours got fnargled when the screens were captured (anyone > know a fix for that?), but the characters are still plainly visible; > maybe others can recognize other senders or themselves in amongst > the zoo. Anybody want them? Congratulations - Just don't seem to get them this much farther West. If the neighbours would shut down all the light dimmers in the eraly evening I might hear (see) something: I ran into the same problem with colors - until I switched to IrfanView, as recommended by Lyle. Then saved as Jpegs and no more color problems... I enclose quote: 73 Mitch VE3OT The following ( sent by K0LR might help in using IrfanView quote """"" to capture screen shots from Spectran, or *any* Windows application, simply hit alt+print scrn, then use the "paste" feature in any graphics application to open the picture for further processing, resizing, saving, etc. I highly recommend the freeware graphics program called "IrfanView", which can be downloaded from http://stud1.tuwien.ac.at/~e9227474/english.htm Here is a sample of the whole process for capturing a screenshot and saving it as a file that's relatively small (under 50 kbytes). With Spectran (or whatever application you are using) as the active window, hit alt+print scrn. This captures the "client area" to the Windows clipboard. Open IrfanView if it isn't already open, and use Edit-Paste or ctrl+V to paste the clipboard onto the screen. If you really want to minimize file size, you can hold down the left mouse button down while dragging the mouse to select a desired rectangular area of the screen, then use Edit-Crop or ctrl+Y to crop the picture. For e-mail attachments or web page use, I typically re-size the image to 640x480 using the Image-Resize command in IrfanView. Actually I use resample rather than resize, because it gives better image quality. Then I use the command Image-Decrease Color Depth and reduce it to 256 colors, which may make the file a bit smaller, and finally File-Save As to save the image as a JPEG file, typically selecting a fairly low image quality like 40 under the options in the Save As dialog box. All of this may sound complicated, but it really takes very little time (compared to uploading a huge bitmap file). Also, most of the steps can be eliminated if you aren't concerned about file size; just do "Paste" and "Save As". And if you aren't pleased with the original image, along the way you can manipulate the contrast, brightness, intensity, hue, gamma, etc., etc. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4451 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 19:05:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 19:05:15 -0000 Received: (qmail 7044 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 18:59:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 18:59:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QZeH-0007Ch-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 18:49:01 +0000 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QZeG-0007Cc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 18:49:00 +0000 Received: from [213.122.13.183] (helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14QZdo-00026R-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 18:48:32 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c09136$49439040$b70d7ad5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: re QRS software Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 12:12:22 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi David, well I use an old computer ....that old it has a cassette port!! The beauty is it has a set of relay contacts that can be switched by the Basic command MOTOR. So an isolated keyer...very simply achieved. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15336 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 18:50:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 18:50:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 23634 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 18:44:04 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 18:44:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QZPQ-00077p-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 18:33:40 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from galahad.joust.net ([63.108.136.2] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QZPO-00077k-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 18:33:38 +0000 Received: from SteveD (p3-138-093.joust.net [63.108.138.93]) by galahad.joust.net (8.11.0/8.11.0) with SMTP id f17IXMN25509 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 13:33:22 -0500 (EST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <200102071833.f17IXMN25509@galahad.joust.net> Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 13:35:06 -0500 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Steve Dove" Subject: LF: G3XTZ copied at W3EEE 0400z+/- Feb.7th. Organization: Dove Signal Processing X-Mailer: Opera 5.01 build 840 X-Priority: 3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings, I have just confirmed with Graham that he, indeed, is the owner of the "XTZ" snapped for posterity by Argo last night. Man, it was exciting watching the grass grow NONONO! real morse characters showing up on the screen! The colours got fnargled when the screens were captured (anyone know a fix for that?), but the characters are still plainly visible; maybe others can recognize other senders or themselves in amongst the zoo. Anybody want them? 73 Steve W3EEE (G3YDV) Mount Gretna (20km east of Hershey, PA) in FN10 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19522 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 16:33:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 16:33:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 15589 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 16:27:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 16:27:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QXJT-0006R3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 16:19:23 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QXJR-0006Qy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 16:19:22 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14QXJC-00025H-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 16:19:06 +0000 Message-ID: <26619.200102071619@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:23:11 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Beacon sigs last night X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Transmitted beacon signals again on 135.923kHz last night, approx. 40s dashes, from 2000 until 0310. Before that, I heard a long series of CQ calls from DL3FDO on about 136.8. The gaps between calls were too short for a reply, so I assume it was a beacon signal. He was asking for reports via the DX cluster, but since I don't have that facility, he was 549 at around 1900utc. Thanks to VE1ZJ for the latest crop of screen shots. A question for the stations listening in North America - are the signals being received from G stations subject to the same kind of fading as has been observed on VA3LK's signal, and VE1ZZ's before that - ie. good copy for an hour or so, followed by deep fades, or have there been continuous periods of good copy? Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10518 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 16:22:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 16:22:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 14685 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 16:25:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 16:25:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QXHe-0006Qr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 16:17:30 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QXHZ-0006Qk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 16:17:27 +0000 Received: from att.net ([12.77.31.102]) by mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.10 201-229-121-110) with ESMTP id <20010207161638.ICYO2326.mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net@att.net> for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:16:38 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A8174EE.1A71F358@att.net> Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 11:16:46 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: 135.9 last night in NC References: <3A81650E.22551.149769B@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike, If you were on 135.92375 I may not see you due to a continuous signal I have there close to .9237. Several times I have suspected there was a QRSS signal maybe .05 hz above this line. I will upload one shot from last night. With Argo119 I have learned how to adjust the Hz scale for actual frequency readout. This is the segment I normally view. If you are transmitting near this continuous signal, moving +/- .1 hz or so would put you in the clear here. http://dmcintyre.home.att.net/135.9feb7.jpg I plan to log again tonight. 73, Dexter Mike Dennison wrote: > > > A second signal on 135.9226 was showing up occasionally, with best > > copy also around 0300 UT. Anyone want to own up to this signal? > > Dex, > > I made Jim's signal exactly 135.923 and I transmitted 'XDV' all night > 0.75Hz HF of him. Does that help? > > Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) > http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21679 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 15:23:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 15:23:12 -0000 Received: (qmail 26198 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 15:26:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 15:26:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QWOw-000670-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 15:20:58 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QWOv-00066v-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 15:20:57 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id PAA05794; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:22:29 GMT Received: (qmail 11415 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 16:13:42 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 16:13:42 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id QAA15268; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 16:03:52 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma015083; Wed, 7 Feb 01 16:03:32 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:24:18 +0000 Received: by frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id <1ATQ16T4>; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:20:21 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D75A9@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: 135.9 last night in NC Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:20:27 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I was transmitting 0.1 Hz wide DFCW from 1950z to 0110z, Lo/Hi freqs 135921.45 / .55. ERP about 14dB lower than the 'big' UK stations. Have a dig into the noise see if you can see anything. Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: Dexter McIntyre W4DEX [mailto:dmcintyre@att.net] > Sent: 2001-02-07 14:43 > To: RSGB LF > Subject: LF: 135.9 last night in NC > > > 135.923 showed the most activity last night with dashes fading in and > out over several hours. Best signals were around 0300 UT. I assume > this was MØBMU's signal but copy was not good enough for > identification. > > A second signal on 135.9226 was showing up occasionally, with > best copy > also around 0300 UT. Anyone want to own up to this signal? > > 73, > Dexter > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution,o r any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13430 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 15:22:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 15:22:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 24156 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 15:25:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 15:25:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QWJv-00066M-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 15:15:47 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QWJt-00066H-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 15:15:45 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 15:09:05 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 15:09:02 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: 135.9 last night in NC Message-ID: <3A81650E.22551.149769B@localhost> In-reply-to: <3A815EDF.D76CE385@att.net> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > A second signal on 135.9226 was showing up occasionally, with best > copy also around 0300 UT. Anyone want to own up to this signal? Dex, I made Jim's signal exactly 135.923 and I transmitted 'XDV' all night 0.75Hz HF of him. Does that help? Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26435 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 14:47:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 14:47:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 20958 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 14:50:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 14:50:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QVoh-0005vI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 14:43:31 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mtiwmhc26.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.51]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QVod-0005vD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 14:43:27 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from att.net ([12.77.31.102]) by mtiwmhc26.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.10 201-229-121-110) with ESMTP id <20010207144232.GZAB6882.mtiwmhc26.worldnet.att.net@att.net> for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 14:42:32 +0000 Message-ID: <3A815EDF.D76CE385@att.net> Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 09:42:39 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "RSGB LF" Subject: LF: 135.9 last night in NC Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: 135.923 showed the most activity last night with dashes fading in and out over several hours. Best signals were around 0300 UT. I assume this was MØBMU's signal but copy was not good enough for identification. A second signal on 135.9226 was showing up occasionally, with best copy also around 0300 UT. Anyone want to own up to this signal? 73, Dexter From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 360 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 13:06:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 13:06:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 298 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 13:00:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 13:00:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QU7q-0005OW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 12:55:10 +0000 Received: from mail2.globocabo.com.br ([200.231.181.97] helo=ntweb.globocabo.com.br) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QU7l-0005LT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 12:55:07 +0000 Received: from spovdesi1625 (SPOVD-ESI-1625 [5.8.14.13]) by ntweb.globocabo.com.br with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id D9WD0W1K; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 10:50:48 -0300 Message-ID: <00a901c0910c$d7b3e520$0d0e0805@globocabo.com.br> From: "PY3CRX PY2PLL" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: SWR X phase X reactive components Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 11:49:43 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I need a help: I have an SWR bridge - 2 X 1:40 transformers on a conventional circuit and from this bridge I have two rectified voltages: forward and reflected. On the other side, if I have any reactive component at load side, there will be difference between source signal phase and load signal phase. Using a DBM I'm able to convert this phase difference into voltage. The question is: how can I convert degrees in reactive component value? My phase measurement ranges from -180 to +180 degree on a linear basis, e.g the phase comparator delivers some mV proportional to degrees. Knowing this I'll be able to measure SWR, R and J at the same time. Thanks in advance for any help ... 73 Marcus PY3CRX/PY2PLL S. B. do Campo - GG66rf http://py.qsl.br Active from "DC" to 24GHz From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25677 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 12:37:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 12:37:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 2154 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 12:31:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 12:31:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QTdg-0005CC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 12:24:00 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from d12lmsgate-2.de.ibm.com ([195.212.91.200]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QTdf-0005C0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 12:23:59 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d12relay02.de.ibm.com (d12relay02.de.ibm.com [9.165.215.23]) by d12lmsgate-2.de.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id NAA85324 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 13:23:13 +0100 Received: from usa.net (ss1.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.66]) by d12relay02.de.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id NAA47736 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 13:22:54 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A813E13.8E15B350@usa.net> Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 13:22:44 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: QRS software References: <3A7EC25C.23669.13BB591@localhost> <3.0.1.16.20010207112258.2c8f0b36@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <3.0.1.16.20010207131253.080f6326@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik Strobbe wrote: > [snip] > PS : I will eventually make a 'beta version' that uses the soundcard, but > don't blame me it your PC 'hangs' if QRS is used in combination with other > software. > [snip] Argo uses only the input portion of the sound card (technically speaking, only the waveINxxxx APIs of the mmsystem subsystem). I haven't specifically checked, but it is my impression that another program could use the waveOUTxxx APIs without conflict. This, of course, if the sound card supports full-duplex (not every card does), and the properties in Windows for the sound card are correctly set for full-duplex operations (not every Windows installation is). But only a direct check can tell about the feasibility of the above. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15655 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 12:18:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 12:18:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 18862 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 12:21:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 12:21:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QTVt-0005BD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 12:15:57 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QTVp-0005B8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 12:15:53 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 12:03:33 +0000 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 12:03:31 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: QRS software Message-ID: <3A813993.4411.9F9CDD@localhost> In-reply-to: <3.0.1.16.20010207112258.2c8f0b36@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <3A7EDD33.5AECC6BB@bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > At 12:04 5/02/01 -0500, N4ICK wrote: > >The only limitation would be the ON7YD QRS program: does it allow us > >to go slower? (I cannot remember its parameters, and the actual > >software is at the transmitter site, of course, not here in my shack, > >so I cannot check now how slow it will go). > > So far QRS allows up to 65 seconds 'element length'. Reason for this > is that the dotlength is calculated in multiples of 0.1 second and are > handled as WORD values (2 byte). At the time I released this version 3 > sec./dot was common practice with an odd one using 10 sec./dot, so the > 65 seconds limit seemed fairly save. Laurie pointed out this problem > to me a few days ago and I made a 'quick fix' that now allows up to 10 > minutes dot length. Whoever is interested in transmitting at very slow > speed can request a copy of the new version via e-mail. > > In the near future I intend to release a new revision of QRS, giving > more facilities for very long dotlengths. > > Following 'features' are planned : > > - although meanwhile DELPHI 5 is available I will stick to DELPHI 1 as > this allows the software to run under WIN3.1 and upward. This will > allow to use old PC's (even a 386) for beaconing etc ... > > - timing will be more accurate. So far I used the 'internal timer' of > DELPHI that has the advantage of 100% 'no interference' with other > software but is not so accurate (few % error). At 3 sec./dot this > error is neglectible but at 60 sec./dot it can be noticed. Meanwhile I > managed to work arround this problem and get a accurate timing without > interference with other software. > > - fast CW facilities will be abandoned, except for the possibility to > have a fast CW text at the begin and end of your QRSS/DFCW > transmission > > - dot lengths will be given in seconds instead of milliseconds > (entering 60000 for 1 minute dotlength is not practical) > > - maximum dot length will be 86400 seconds (= 1 day), this should > satisfy the needs for even the slowest QRSS (for the time being) > > - possibility to 'synchronize' transmissions to the PC-clock (eg. > allow to transmit at 60 sec./dot where each dot starts exactly at the > beginning of the minute). > > In case you have a 'wishlist' of other features that could be usefull, > please let me know ASAP. If possible I will try to implement them. > > 73, Rik ON7YD > > Mike From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28619 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 11:56:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 11:56:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 27138 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 12:00:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 12:00:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QTBJ-00051V-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 11:54:41 +0000 Received: from phoenix.coastalnet.com ([216.10.160.35]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QTBI-00051Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 11:54:40 +0000 Received: from dad (NBN-TNT2-pool1-89.coastalnet.com [216.10.172.89]) by phoenix.coastalnet.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with SMTP id GAA24103 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 06:53:54 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <003901c090fc$b6d75ea0$d7ac0ad8@dad> From: "David Michael Gaytko // WD4KPD" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3A7EC25C.23669.13BB591@localhost> <3.0.1.16.20010207112258.2c8f0b36@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <3.0.1.16.20010207131253.080f6326@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: Re: LF: Re: QRS software Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 11:54:22 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: tks rik.... i was aware of the speaker output, but it is not readily accessible, and i would wonder about its spectral purity? still willing to try... david From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12177 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 11:28:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 11:28:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 3182 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 11:31:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 11:31:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QSfP-0004s6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 11:21:43 +0000 Received: from [195.47.110.226] (helo=dell1.gmccz.cz.gmc.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QSfL-0004rx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 11:21:40 +0000 Received: from p (p.maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net [192.168.1.22]) by dell1.gmccz.cz.gmc.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id DV58S4NQ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 12:22:46 +0100 Message-ID: <00df01c090f8$0f7e52c0$1601a8c0@maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000401c090f1$1232a180$d7ac0ad8@dad> Subject: LF: Re: Re: QRS software Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 12:21:05 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: David Michael Gaytko // WD4KPD To: Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 11:31 AM Subject: LF: Re: QRS software > WISH WISH WISH ! > > a soundcard output for those of us with no serial/parallel ports, and > for > those of us that don't like to blow out their motherboard mounted > serial/parallel ports. Nothing easier than to separate RS232 with opto-couplers. I use my laptop about 50 cm from the loading coil, PA is 500 W. No problem. If the RF is induced to a cable to the soundcard you will damage it anyway. I have separated this way all the outlets from the laptop, and not to make an antenna to it, I don't use a mouse, too (trackpoint instead). 73 Petr OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22346 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 11:27:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 11:27:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 3318 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 11:31:41 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 11:31:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QSgM-0004sE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 11:22:42 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QSgA-0004s8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 11:22:30 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id MAA51360 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 12:22:08 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010207131253.080f6326@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 13:12:53 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: QRS software In-reply-to: <000401c090f1$1232a180$d7ac0ad8@dad> References: <3A7EC25C.23669.13BB591@localhost> <3.0.1.16.20010207112258.2c8f0b36@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi David, I prefer to stay away from the soundcard, as QRS is often used in combination with DSP software such as ARGO, SPECTOGRAM, SPECLAB etc ... that also use the soundcard. But there is 'sound' available with QRS, via the PC speaker. 73, Rik ON7YD PS : I will eventually make a 'beta version' that uses the soundcard, but don't blame me it your PC 'hangs' if QRS is used in combination with other software. At 10:31 7/02/01 -0000, you wrote: >WISH WISH WISH ! > >a soundcard output for those of us with no serial/parallel ports, and for >those of us that don't like to blow out their motherboard mounted >serial/parallel ports. > >i have done it, so this is the primary reason to request an audio output for >the soundcard to mike input of transmitter. > >david > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 734 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 10:37:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 10:37:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 16083 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 10:31:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 10:31:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QRnm-0004XW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 10:26:18 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from gigi.excite.com ([199.172.152.110]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QRnk-0004XN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 10:26:17 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from chilly.excite.com ([199.172.153.77]) by gigi.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010207102552.BMVU25675.gigi.excite.com@chilly.excite.com> for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 02:25:52 -0800 Message-ID: <4753083.981541552577.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 02:25:34 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: Is this the Amrad Beacon?? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 62.253.64.5 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Sandy, Ah! That would be well outside my window of 1 Hz or so. I will try again. I suspect that the line I saw was from the East because it faded out at our dawn. Thanks for letting me know. 73, John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1492 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 10:33:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 10:33:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 20223 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 10:36:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 10:36:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QRsh-0004YY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 10:31:23 +0000 Received: from phoenix.coastalnet.com ([216.10.160.35]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QRsf-0004YR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 10:31:22 +0000 Received: from dad (NBN-TNT2-pool1-215.coastalnet.com [216.10.172.215]) by phoenix.coastalnet.com (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with SMTP id FAA02857 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 05:30:34 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <000401c090f1$1232a180$d7ac0ad8@dad> From: "David Michael Gaytko // WD4KPD" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3A7EC25C.23669.13BB591@localhost> <3.0.1.16.20010207112258.2c8f0b36@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: LF: Re: QRS software Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 10:31:02 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: WISH WISH WISH ! a soundcard output for those of us with no serial/parallel ports, and for those of us that don't like to blow out their motherboard mounted serial/parallel ports. i have done it, so this is the primary reason to request an audio output for the soundcard to mike input of transmitter. david From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 965 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 10:25:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 10:25:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 8696 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 10:28:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 10:28:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QRkp-0004TU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 10:23:15 +0000 Received: from [195.47.110.226] (helo=dell1.gmccz.cz.gmc.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QRko-0004TP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 10:23:14 +0000 Received: from p (p.maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net [192.168.1.22]) by dell1.gmccz.cz.gmc.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id DV58S4MJ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 11:24:21 +0100 Message-ID: <00c901c090ef$e67848c0$1601a8c0@maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20010207112258.2c8f0b36@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: LF: Re: QRS software Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 11:22:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The EasyGram http://www.sweb.cz/ok1fig/EasyGram.htm is currently limited to dot length 10 minutes. No problem to make it longer if required. Petr OK1FIG ----- Original Message ----- From: Rik Strobbe To: Sent: Wednesday, February 07, 2001 12:22 PM Subject: LF: QRS software > At 12:04 5/02/01 -0500, N4ICK wrote: > >The only limitation would be the ON7YD QRS program: does it allow us to > go > >slower? (I cannot remember its parameters, and the actual software is > at the > >transmitter site, of course, not here in my shack, so I cannot check > now how > >slow it will go). > > So far QRS allows up to 65 seconds 'element length'. Reason for this is > that the dotlength is calculated in multiples of 0.1 second and are > handled > as WORD values (2 byte). At the time I released this version 3 sec./dot > was > common practice with an odd one using 10 sec./dot, so the 65 seconds > limit > seemed fairly save. > Laurie pointed out this problem to me a few days ago and I made a 'quick > fix' that now allows up to 10 minutes dot length. Whoever is interested > in > transmitting at very slow speed can request a copy of the new version > via > e-mail. > > In the near future I intend to release a new revision of QRS, giving > more > facilities for very long dotlengths. > > Following 'features' are planned : > > - although meanwhile DELPHI 5 is available I will stick to DELPHI 1 as > this > allows the software to run under WIN3.1 and upward. This will allow to > use > old PC's (even a 386) for beaconing etc ... > > - timing will be more accurate. So far I used the 'internal timer' of > DELPHI that has the advantage of 100% 'no interference' with other > software > but is not so accurate (few % error). At 3 sec./dot this error is > neglectible but at 60 sec./dot it can be noticed. Meanwhile I managed to > work arround this problem and get a accurate timing without interference > with other software. > > - fast CW facilities will be abandoned, except for the possibility to > have > a fast CW text at the begin and end of your QRSS/DFCW transmission > > - dot lengths will be given in seconds instead of milliseconds (entering > 60000 for 1 minute dotlength is not practical) > > - maximum dot length will be 86400 seconds (= 1 day), this should > satisfy > the needs for even the slowest QRSS (for the time being) > > - possibility to 'synchronize' transmissions to the PC-clock (eg. allow > to > transmit at 60 sec./dot where each dot starts exactly at the beginning > of > the minute). > > In case you have a 'wishlist' of other features that could be usefull, > please let me know ASAP. If possible I will try to implement them. > > 73, Rik ON7YD > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15285 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 09:48:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 09:48:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 18364 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 09:52:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 09:52:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QRAn-0004Go-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 09:46:01 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QRAk-0004Gj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 09:46:00 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 09:43:38 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 09:43:36 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: RE: Is this the Amrad Beacon?? Message-ID: <3A8118C8.21639.1F8415@localhost> In-reply-to: <01C09071.4E4DCE40.esanders@erols.com> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > As much as I hate to say it, that probably was not the AMRAD beacon. > It is > really at about 136.745 (we are assigned 136.750 but the tolerance > specified allows us a few HZ either side). Also I watched it for a > while with ARGO set to 120 sec mode and there is a noticeable cyclic > frequency variation as the heating system cycles. We plan on running > it with 90 sec dots for a while. Sandy, Can you tell us more about the cyclic variation: approximate period and deviation? If this is slow enough and narrow enough it will serve to positively identfy the signal. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28248 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 09:35:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 09:35:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 7029 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 09:38:42 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 09:38:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QQxk-0004B5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 09:32:32 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QQxg-0004B0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 09:32:28 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA99034 for ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 10:32:13 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010207112258.2c8f0b36@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 07 Feb 2001 11:22:58 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: QRS software In-reply-to: <3A7EDD33.5AECC6BB@bellatlantic.net> References: <3A7EC25C.23669.13BB591@localhost> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 12:04 5/02/01 -0500, N4ICK wrote: >The only limitation would be the ON7YD QRS program: does it allow us to go >slower? (I cannot remember its parameters, and the actual software is at the >transmitter site, of course, not here in my shack, so I cannot check now how >slow it will go). So far QRS allows up to 65 seconds 'element length'. Reason for this is that the dotlength is calculated in multiples of 0.1 second and are handled as WORD values (2 byte). At the time I released this version 3 sec./dot was common practice with an odd one using 10 sec./dot, so the 65 seconds limit seemed fairly save. Laurie pointed out this problem to me a few days ago and I made a 'quick fix' that now allows up to 10 minutes dot length. Whoever is interested in transmitting at very slow speed can request a copy of the new version via e-mail. In the near future I intend to release a new revision of QRS, giving more facilities for very long dotlengths. Following 'features' are planned : - although meanwhile DELPHI 5 is available I will stick to DELPHI 1 as this allows the software to run under WIN3.1 and upward. This will allow to use old PC's (even a 386) for beaconing etc ... - timing will be more accurate. So far I used the 'internal timer' of DELPHI that has the advantage of 100% 'no interference' with other software but is not so accurate (few % error). At 3 sec./dot this error is neglectible but at 60 sec./dot it can be noticed. Meanwhile I managed to work arround this problem and get a accurate timing without interference with other software. - fast CW facilities will be abandoned, except for the possibility to have a fast CW text at the begin and end of your QRSS/DFCW transmission - dot lengths will be given in seconds instead of milliseconds (entering 60000 for 1 minute dotlength is not practical) - maximum dot length will be 86400 seconds (= 1 day), this should satisfy the needs for even the slowest QRSS (for the time being) - possibility to 'synchronize' transmissions to the PC-clock (eg. allow to transmit at 60 sec./dot where each dot starts exactly at the beginning of the minute). In case you have a 'wishlist' of other features that could be usefull, please let me know ASAP. If possible I will try to implement them. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10339 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 08:35:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 08:35:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 10901 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 08:38:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 08:38:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QPrV-0003jd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 08:22:01 +0000 Received: from [195.47.110.226] (helo=dell1.gmccz.cz.gmc.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QPrR-0003jY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 08:21:57 +0000 Received: from p (p.maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net [192.168.1.22]) by dell1.gmccz.cz.gmc.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id DV58S4LQ; Wed, 7 Feb 2001 09:22:59 +0100 Message-ID: <002601c090de$f1c91300$1601a8c0@maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000f01c0907f$87bc8820$31d87ad5@default> Subject: LF: Re: Strange message.... Date: Wed, 7 Feb 2001 09:21:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I am very sorry that it happened, even that I don't have a clue what could be the reason. The messages like these are sent automatically by an application. In any way, there is absolutely no reason to be afraid of worms or viruses. Again, sorry... Petr ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Melia To: LF-Group Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 9:53 PM Subject: LF: Strange message.... > Hi all I received a strange message purporting to come from Peter > immediately following his announcement of the web site move. > > This looked rather like the MTX worm I 'caught' which seemed to send an > extra infected message to anyone you addressed a message to. I have not > signs of problems according to my checker, but I did open it in a review > pane. It may be wise to treat this with caution. > > Cheers de Alan G3NYK > Alan.Melia@btinternet.com > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15845 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 00:24:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 00:24:19 -0000 Received: (qmail 15511 invoked from network); 7 Feb 2001 00:18:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 7 Feb 2001 00:18:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QIDB-00013d-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 00:11:53 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.60]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QID9-00013Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 07 Feb 2001 00:11:52 +0000 Received: from 66-44-93-176.s557.tnt9.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.93.176] helo=nan-and-sandy) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.16 #5) id 14QICu-0003Bj-00 ; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 19:11:36 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 19:16:28 -0500 Message-ID: <01C09071.4E4DCE40.esanders@erols.com> From: "Nan and Sandy Sanders" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: tacos@amrad.org Subject: LF: RE: Is this the Amrad Beacon?? Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 19:16:23 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: As much as I hate to say it, that probably was not the AMRAD beacon. It is really at about 136.745 (we are assigned 136.750 but the tolerance specified allows us a few HZ either side). Also I watched it for a while with ARGO set to 120 sec mode and there is a noticeable cyclic frequency variation as the heating system cycles. We plan on running it with 90 sec dots for a while. Sandy WB5MMB ---------- From: john sexton[SMTP:computernetworks@excite.com] Reply To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Tuesday, February 06, 2001 4:14 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Is this the Amrad Beacon?? Hi All, I used Argo last night to monitor the Amrad Beacon frequency at 136.750 kHz and found a signal precisely on frequency to within 0.01 Hz. I used the highest resolution of 120 sec dots, which means that one cannot see the QRSS coding, which is probably 3 sec dots, but the signal could probably not be seen at all if I had set Argo to that dot length. I used the Loran lines to calibrate Argo. To see the best image click on www.g4cnn.f2s.com/amradbeacon.jpg. The signal is about 0.01 Hz low in this picture, but when I recalibrated Argo this morning, I found the nearest Loran line at 136751.5669 also appeared 0.01 Hz low, so this is just a calibration error (still learning). The signal was visible from about 22.00 last night (010205) until 06.00 this morning when it died out. I saw no clear "Dawn effect" on the QRN in these images, but the QRN is low throughout, which might be a result of using this resolution, or perhaps the different frequency. In order to measure to 0.01 Hz accurately, I had to import the images into Paint Shop Pro and use the vernier to measure the difference in position of two consecutive 1 Hz marks and the line. The lack of finer vertical scaling in Argo is the one minor deficiency in this otherwise excellent package. Thanks Alberto. 73, John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29275 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 21:11:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 21:11:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 5874 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 21:05:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 21:05:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QFDR-0008Ix-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 20:59:57 +0000 Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QFDK-0008Ip-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 20:59:50 +0000 Received: from [213.122.216.49] (helo=default) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14QFD4-0003yj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 20:59:34 +0000 Message-ID: <000f01c0907f$87bc8820$31d87ad5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Strange message.... Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 20:53:14 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all I received a strange message purporting to come from Peter immediately following his announcement of the web site move. This looked rather like the MTX worm I 'caught' which seemed to send an extra infected message to anyone you addressed a message to. I have not signs of problems according to my checker, but I did open it in a review pane. It may be wise to treat this with caution. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6279 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 20:52:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 20:52:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 28853 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 20:56:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 20:56:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QF33-0008Dr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 20:49:13 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QF2z-0008Dm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 20:49:10 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.51.6]) by jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 16:48:22 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A80A9BF.B1C1F44@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 20:49:51 -0500 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Recent beacon activity References: <26883.200102061723@gemini> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Jim , I assume you have seen screen shots of reception of your sigs as posted at Dave's site 73 de John VE1ZJ James Moritz wrote: > Dear LF Group, > > In case anybody is trying to identify beacon signals, this is when I > have been transmitting over the last few days, all on 135.9230kHz: > > 2047 on 3/2/2001 until 0350 on 4/2 - "M0BMU" at 1hr per callsign > > 2120 on 4/2/2001 until 0235 on 5/2 - as above > > 1945 on 5/2/2001 until 0240 on 6/2 - Increased speed to 1/2hr per > call (about 30s dots). > > If anybody would like a different signal, or at different times, let me > know and I'll try to oblige. > > I looked at 136.75kHz with an eye to the possibility of receiving the > WA2XTF beacon, given the good propagation there has been > lately. in a range of +/-5Hz there are several spectral lines of > variable strength. In order to stand much chance of being visible, > WA2XTF will have to avoid these lines, and have a frequency that > is known to within 0.1Hz or so. Has anyone at AMRAD measured > the frequency accurately lately? > > I think my E-mail is working, but it is taking longer than usual for > things to appear. > > Will be transmitting again tonight, using the shorter dots, provided > the wind does not get too wild for my antenna. > > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19113 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 20:11:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 20:11:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 6603 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 20:05:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 20:05:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QEFn-0007qK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 19:58:19 +0000 Received: from mta03-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.43]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QEFl-0007qF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 19:58:18 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([213.104.105.201]) by mta03-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010206195757.CZE10171.mta03-svc.ntlworld.com@oemcomputer> for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 19:57:57 +0000 Message-ID: <000e01c09077$0ccddd60$c96968d5@oemcomputer> From: "mike.dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001a01c0906e$4cdc9260$46399fd4@f9.net.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Screen grabs from VE1ZJ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 19:54:54 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Latest screen-grabs from John are on the website at > http://www.wireless.org.uk/newspic45.htm Thanks John and Dave. I was transmitting 0.7Hz HF of Jim last night and the other signal seen by John is on that frequency. Nothing identifiable yet, though. Looks like I need a few more dB. Mike, G3XDV http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19310 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 19:40:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 19:40:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 7589 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 19:42:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 19:42:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QDvF-0007jp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 19:37:05 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.48]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QDvC-0007jk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 19:37:02 +0000 Received: from att.net ([12.77.30.181]) by mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.10 201-229-121-110) with ESMTP id <20010206193642.POBP28450.mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net@att.net> for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 19:36:42 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A80524E.6F7E623D@att.net> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 14:36:46 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre W4DEX" Organization: JDM Communications X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "RSGB LF" Subject: LF: Watching 135.921 to .9243 tonight Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: WX map looks like low QRN here tonight. I will be logging .921 to .9243 all night. Dexter From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1443 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 19:09:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 19:09:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 8879 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 19:03:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 19:03:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QDGT-0007S0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 18:54:57 +0000 Received: from [212.159.14.225] (helo=murphys-outbound.servers.plus.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QDGS-0007Rv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 18:54:56 +0000 Received: (qmail 2383 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 18:54:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO picks) (212.159.57.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 18:54:09 -0000 Message-ID: <001a01c0906e$4cdc9260$46399fd4@f9.net.uk> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Screen grabs from VE1ZJ Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 18:54:56 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all. Latest screen-grabs from John are on the website at http://www.wireless.org.uk/newspic45.htm 73. Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20808 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 18:55:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 18:55:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 14906 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 18:58:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 18:58:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QDAE-0007RI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 18:48:30 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QDAC-0007RD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 18:48:28 +0000 Received: from [213.122.199.159] (helo=host213-122-199-159.btinternet.com) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14QD9r-0002Hb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 18:48:11 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Nick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Is this the Amrad Beacon?? Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 18:47:06 +0000 Message-ID: References: <21313691.981456009244.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> <3A7FEFC3.D1368E9@usa.net> In-reply-to: <3A7FEFC3.D1368E9@usa.net> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On Tue, 06 Feb 2001 13:36:20 +0100, you wrote: > >When writing URLs in a message, to have them work as a hot links, you >have to prefix them with http:// It all depends on what people are reading the message with, Agent makes hot links out of both your examples. Nick From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13619 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 17:37:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 17:37:25 -0000 Received: (qmail 3610 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 17:30:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 17:30:19 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QBqN-0006to-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 17:23:55 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QBqM-0006tj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 17:23:54 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14QBq2-0002ug-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 17:23:34 +0000 Message-ID: <26883.200102061723@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 17:27:38 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Recent beacon activity X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, In case anybody is trying to identify beacon signals, this is when I have been transmitting over the last few days, all on 135.9230kHz: 2047 on 3/2/2001 until 0350 on 4/2 - "M0BMU" at 1hr per callsign 2120 on 4/2/2001 until 0235 on 5/2 - as above 1945 on 5/2/2001 until 0240 on 6/2 - Increased speed to 1/2hr per call (about 30s dots). If anybody would like a different signal, or at different times, let me know and I'll try to oblige. I looked at 136.75kHz with an eye to the possibility of receiving the WA2XTF beacon, given the good propagation there has been lately. in a range of +/-5Hz there are several spectral lines of variable strength. In order to stand much chance of being visible, WA2XTF will have to avoid these lines, and have a frequency that is known to within 0.1Hz or so. Has anyone at AMRAD measured the frequency accurately lately? I think my E-mail is working, but it is taking longer than usual for things to appear. Will be transmitting again tonight, using the shorter dots, provided the wind does not get too wild for my antenna. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21195 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 16:16:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 16:16:08 -0000 Received: (qmail 7165 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 16:19:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 16:19:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QAfn-0006PT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 16:08:55 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from phobos.unica.co.uk ([208.239.240.147] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14QAfm-0006PO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 16:08:54 +0000 Received: from [195.47.110.226] (helo=dell1.gmccz.cz.gmc.net) by phobos.unica.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.13 #2) id 14QAfX-0001Xd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 11:08:39 -0500 Received: from p (p.maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net [192.168.1.22]) by dell1.gmccz.cz.gmc.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id DV58S4HK; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 17:07:42 +0100 Message-ID: <000101c09056$8f90e9c0$1601a8c0@maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly" To: "136 group" Subject: LF: WNG: CASECON2 3.14.01 RELEASE MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 11:08:39 -0500 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: File at: ftp://emplgmc@194.230.72.33/Distribute/PrintNet/CASECON2/31401RELEASE-010122/Warning.txt This is the warning for .... From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22243 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 14:52:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 14:52:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 5133 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 14:55:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 14:55:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Q9Pq-0005vI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 14:48:22 +0000 Received: from [195.47.110.226] (helo=dell1.gmccz.cz.gmc.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Q9Pm-0005v5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 14:48:18 +0000 Received: from p (p.maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net [192.168.1.22]) by dell1.gmccz.cz.gmc.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id DV58S4FM; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 15:49:21 +0100 Message-ID: <012901c0904b$b0015c40$1601a8c0@maly.gmccz.cz.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly" To: "136 group" Subject: LF: WEB moved and updated Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 15:47:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all I moved my WEB pages to another server and updated them a little. Some info abt the last transatlantic tests at: http://www.sweb.cz/ok1fig/xped0112.htm Some new pictures from the last event: http://www.sweb.cz/ok1fig/gallery.htm New version of EasyGram, that fixes the "P" problem: http://www.sweb.cz/ok1fig/EasyGram.htm The main LF page is: http://www.sweb.cz/ok1fig/136k.htm Let me know whether it is easier now to download the EasyGram (different ISP). Mind that URL addresses are case-sensitive now (Unix). 73 Petr OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11557 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 14:48:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 14:48:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 2942 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 14:51:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 14:51:59 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Q9Nf-0005uj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 14:46:07 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Q9Ne-0005uT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 14:46:06 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.70.45]) by jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:45:29 -0400 Message-ID: <3A8054AF.6C9DEEFD@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 14:46:55 -0500 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: lf tests Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Last night condx were poor M0BMU and G3XTZ were both "O" copy at most times M0BM Received: (qmail 25528 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 14:32:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 14:32:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 17178 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 14:34:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 14:34:53 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Q97E-0005oO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 14:29:08 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fortune-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.203] helo=fortune.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Q97B-0005oI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 14:29:05 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from chilly.excite.com ([199.172.153.77]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010206142820.VXNS15750.fortune.excite.com@chilly.excite.com> for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 06:28:20 -0800 Message-ID: <29450579.981469700393.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 06:28:10 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Night noise at 137.7 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 213.104.156.110 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Mike, Yes, I think you are right about the "Luxemburg effect" at the top of our band, being the main source of the noise that disappears at dawn. I have always assumed that it is modulation of DBF39 by broadcast stations. It is not really intelligible, so I was going to use a second receiver to see if I could match it with BBC 4 or other strong European stations, but haven't got round to it yet. When I monitored Jack's signal overnight on the 1st of Feb, I did see a reduction of noise at 06.20, but it was much less marked than when monitoring 137.790. 73, John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5933 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 14:22:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 14:22:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 11012 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 14:25:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 14:25:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Q8xw-0005jh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 14:19:32 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Q8xv-0005jc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 14:19:31 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.70.45]) by jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:19:02 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A804E7D.3C7FBE6B@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 14:20:29 -0500 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: G-VE by XDV? References: <3A7EA689.29299.CF057E@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Mike I checked the shots from Markus and looked over my shots from sat night. Yes I believe your sigs are there. I can't, however prove it as I could see no dots Condx were poor last night and I saw only a few isolated lines. DFC39 was S-9 at 0342Z but I think only XTZ was on then 73 de John VE1ZJ Mike Dennison wrote: > Thanks to Markus, DF6NM, and John, VE1ZJ, for their > spectrograms of last Saturday night's transatlantic tests. I am > particularly grateful as it appears from careful analysis of the pics > that my signals got across, too. I don't think I have my wishful > thinking filter switch in. > > I transmitted 10s dots until about midnight 0.4Hz HF of Jim. My > dashes can be clearly seen on Markus's picture (posted to the > group under the title "Signals around 135.923"). You can't see much > of the Morse itself because he has optimised for 30s dots, but it can > be worked out. > > Right at the start of John's first picture (at > http://www.wireless.org.uk/newspic44.htm ) you can see a trace > above Jim's dashes, disappearing after a few characters. I made > the vertical scale on John's and Markus's spectrograms the same, > and five transmssions (G3XDV, M0BMU, G3XTZ, G3YXM, G3AQC) > fit perfectly. The attached composite image shows this. > > Of course, a couple of blobs on a screen are not enough, but > encouraged by this I will transmit 30s dot CW this evening (actually > groups of one or three dashes as my keyer won't do greater than > 10s dots!). > > Thanks again fellers. > > Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) > http://www.lf.thersgb.net > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > The following section of this message contains a file attachment > prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format. > If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any another MIME-compliant system, > you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer. > If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance. > > ---- File information ----------- > File: ve-xdv1.jpg > Date: 5 Feb 2001, 13:08 > Size: 8662 bytes. > Type: JPEG-image > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Name: ve-xdv1.jpg > ve-xdv1.jpg Type: JPEG Image (Image/JPEG) > Encoding: BASE64 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29086 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 14:20:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 14:20:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 1907 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 14:14:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 14:14:02 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Q8mv-0005eT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 14:08:09 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from bucky-rwcmex.excite.com ([198.3.99.218] helo=bucky.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Q8mu-0005eN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 14:08:08 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from chilly.excite.com ([199.172.153.77]) by bucky.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010206140722.DFFC6064.bucky.excite.com@chilly.excite.com> for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 06:07:22 -0800 Message-ID: <82896.981468442405.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 06:07:15 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Is this the Amrad Beacon?? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 213.104.148.143 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Alberto, Thanks, I was aware of the read-out facility, but as you say it is only to 0.1Hz resolution. You wrote "to operate as a hot link, you must write http:// in front..." Ah! Something so small! I'll get the hang of it one day, but by then it will all have changed again, hi! Cheers, John _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13208 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 12:40:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 12:40:36 -0000 Received: (qmail 5299 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 12:44:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 12:44:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Q7N7-0005A1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 12:37:25 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from d12lmsgate-2.de.ibm.com ([195.212.91.200]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Q7N3-00059w-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 12:37:21 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d12relay02.de.ibm.com (d12relay02.de.ibm.com [9.165.215.23]) by d12lmsgate-2.de.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id NAA67188 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:36:33 +0100 Received: from usa.net (ss10.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.76]) by d12relay02.de.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id NAA88714 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:36:28 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A7FEFC3.D1368E9@usa.net> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 13:36:20 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Is this the Amrad Beacon?? References: <21313691.981456009244.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: john sexton wrote: > Hi All, > On testing I found that to see the image it is necessary to copy (or type) > the address > www.g4cnn.f2s.com/amradbeacon.jpg > into the URL field, for some reason only part of this functions if you just > click on it. > Sri - this internet is too complicated by far, hi! or is it me? > 73 John, G4CNN > When writing URLs in a message, to have them work as a hot links, you have to prefix them with http:// So, this is *not* an hot link www.g4cnn.f2s.com/amradbeacon.jpg while this is : http://www.g4cnn.f2s.com/amradbeacon.jpg At least this is true with Netscape. Personally I don't use IE nor OE, so I feel more safe against script viruses. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12030 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 11:34:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 11:34:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 14034 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 11:38:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 11:38:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Q6L5-0004p9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 11:31:15 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Q6L3-0004p4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 11:31:14 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 11:16:12 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:16:11 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Measurement accuracy Message-ID: <3A7FDCFB.27743.6FAA60@localhost> In-reply-to: <20010206120849.E52CC1829C@alpha.dii.unisi.it> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > I cannot measure the frequency with a accuracy more than +-1Hz, so any > report about it is welcome. '73 IK5ZPV, JN53KX Valerio Valerio, Are you using Argo? If so, you can measure your frequency much better than 1Hz. I have no clever test gear so I use the 'dual VFO' (not two VFOs at all, but two settings of the same VFO) on my IC-706. I monitor the BBC on 198kHz, with Argo on the 60s dot setting. Using the new calibrate facility on Build 119, I set Argo to read exactly 198.0000kHz then either switch to the other VFO, or re-tune to 136kHz where the readout is now accurate to 0.1Hz. I can measure accurately in between the 1Hz tuning steps by using Argo again. Thanks for the QSO at the weekend. 73 Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28658 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 11:07:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 11:07:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 26889 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 11:10:45 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 11:10:45 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Q5nM-0004XS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 10:56:24 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from firewall.dii.unisi.it ([193.205.7.2] ident=postfix) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Q5nL-0004XN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 10:56:23 +0000 Received: from alpha.dii.unisi.it (alpha.dii.unisi.it [10.1.0.1]) by firewall.dii.unisi.it (Postfix) with ESMTP id 4B5E63C029 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:55:04 +0100 (CET) Received: from Debug (alpha.dii.unisi.it [10.1.0.1]) by alpha.dii.unisi.it (Postfix) with SMTP id E52CC1829C for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 13:08:49 +0100 (CET) To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: valerio@dii.unisi.it Subject: LF: Evening Transmission Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 12:08:49 GMT X-Mailer: Endymion MailMan Standard Edition v3.0.26 Message-ID: <20010206120849.E52CC1829C@alpha.dii.unisi.it> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello all, My tx is full of spider's web so i decided to do some transmissions this evening. The frequency would be 135,924Hz+-1Hz, modulation SLCW 20 sec. dot 1/2 ratio time period from 21:00 to 23:30 UTC. I will transmit only "ZP" to avoid fire in the TX room. The TX output power is 1 Kw and ERP should be about 1W. I cannot measure the frequency with a accuracy more than +-1Hz, so any report about it is welcome. '73 IK5ZPV, JN53KX Valerio --------------------------------------------- This message was sent using Endymion MailMan. It was installed by Engineering Department of University of Siena - Italy. http://www.endymion.com/products/mailman/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10732 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 10:52:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 10:52:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 8784 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 10:46:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 10:46:12 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Q5Xy-0004UW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 10:40:30 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from bucky-rwcmex.excite.com ([198.3.99.218] helo=bucky.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Q5Xw-0004UQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 10:40:28 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from chilly.excite.com ([199.172.153.77]) by bucky.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010206104009.CFXZ6064.bucky.excite.com@chilly.excite.com> for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 02:40:09 -0800 Message-ID: <21313691.981456009244.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 02:39:58 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Is this the Amrad Beacon?? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 213.104.152.73 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, On testing I found that to see the image it is necessary to copy (or type) the address www.g4cnn.f2s.com/amradbeacon.jpg into the URL field, for some reason only part of this functions if you just click on it. Sri - this internet is too complicated by far, hi! or is it me? 73 John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 544 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 10:43:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 10:43:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 20944 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 10:37:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 10:37:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Q5PM-0004T4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 10:31:36 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mserv1d.vianw.co.uk ([195.102.240.96]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Q5PI-0004Sz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 10:31:33 +0000 Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1d.vianw.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.22 #5) id 14Q5P2-0006cr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 10:31:16 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 10:27:21 +0000 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 10:27:19 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------020708010703030702050600" Subject: LF: Night noise at 137.7 Message-ID: <3A7FD187.25098.42EF57@localhost> In-reply-to: <18037217.981450855761.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020708010703030702050600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit G4CNN wrote: > > The signal was visible from about 22.00 last night (010205) until > 06.00 this morning when it died out. I saw no clear "Dawn effect" on > the QRN in these images, but the QRN is low throughout, which might be > a result of using this resolution, or perhaps the different frequency. That's interesting about the noise. I monitored VE1ZZ's frequency (136.5) on Saturday night and also found no dawn effect on the noise. I also wondered whether it was the frequency. Using Argo on its full band (waterfall) mode, I monitored on Sunday night using a 500Hz filter from 137.2 to 137.7 (the DXers were affecting the plot when I used SSB bandwidth) and there was a clear indication that the noise was highest at the top of the band. This noise went down at about 0626. (See attached JPG - highest frequency to the right). This suggests that: 1) we are using the wrong frequency to listen to DX at night. 2) the noise is frequency selective. Perhaps it is linked to the 'Luxemburg effect' that we hear at the top end of the band late evening. Does it effectively generate noise sidebands on the DCF39 signal? Or is there a strong wideband signal HF of the band, 3000km to the east? More work is required on this one. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net --------------020708010703030702050600 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; name="Attachment information..txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Attachment information..txt" The following section of this message contains a file attachment prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format. If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any another MIME-compliant system, you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer. If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance. ---- File information ----------- File: noise.gif Date: 6 Feb 2001, 10:24 Size: 9931 bytes. 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gT7Rgjr4jY0KAAqggACIgDbogR64FDWogBgYgjPQgxCQgRiQDThQg6hk9AM80BQLQAEZIAL2 2AC+wgM32IOhdIMqwAH7SAPYkIIlOAA3O4IpyAAKIJ426CMCgJw+8ICp2dAeOgIveLfOmYyc CqWUkB1bPQAGkC33MYI4GIMTEDC+CwGkiaEAOLcKEAI4kIA/soA26yEZ6IGTJALxcCU42IDh nAAHQIOZ0IMtqANAJRMygAITMIE/kNu5pdu6tdu7xdu81du95du+9du/Bdy5DQgAOw== --------------020708010703030702050600-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27914 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 10:16:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 10:16:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 6132 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 10:20:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 10:20:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Q583-0004Nk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 10:13:43 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from d12lmsgate.de.ibm.com ([195.212.91.199]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Q581-0004Nf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 10:13:42 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d12relay02.de.ibm.com (d12relay02.de.ibm.com [9.165.215.23]) by d12lmsgate.de.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id LAA96516 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:12:55 +0100 Received: from usa.net (ss10.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.76]) by d12relay02.de.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id LAA92678 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 11:12:34 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A7FCE0B.E0446D8@usa.net> Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 11:12:27 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Is this the Amrad Beacon?? References: <18037217.981450855761.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: john sexton wrote: > [snip] > The lack of finer vertical scaling > in Argo is the one minor deficiency in this otherwise excellent package. > [snip] John and the group, as an ad-interim way to read the frequency with 0.1 resolution, you can place the mouse cursor on the spot whose frequency you want to know. The position of the mouse cursor is indicated in the lower part of the screen with 0.1 Hz resolution. 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2048 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 09:57:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 09:57:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 20087 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 10:01:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 10:01:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Q4pT-0004DM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 09:54:31 +0000 Received: from rubellite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Q4pS-0004DH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 09:54:30 +0000 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust228.tnt7.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.116.108.228]) by rubellite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id C558F2874 for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 09:53:45 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000601c0901a$b729e720$e46c74d5@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <004401c08fc3$0583eae0$044f073e@default> Subject: LF: Re: Fluorescent light QRM Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 09:52:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To All from PA0SE Alan Melia wrote: > Our switching should be in the 'live' side in the UK, I wonder > if Dick has a tube switched in the neutral line. The straight fluorescent tube above the the kitchen sink has its own switch fitted to its "holder" ( for want of the correct word I don't know). At one end of the holder is a three-pin connector for a mains cord that disappears into the kitchen furniture and leads to a plug in a socket hidden somewhere behind a panel. The Dutch plugs don't have the British third pin and the plug can be inserted in two ways, 180 degrees apart. I found that the plug was inserted such that the switch on the tube holder was in the neutral wire. I did not feel like removing the panel to get access to the plug so I interchanged live and neutral wire in the connector on the holder. Now the switch is in the live wire and the noise is gone when the tube is switched off; the normnal situation during daytime when I operate. How the tube could generate noise when connected to the live wire only remains unexplained. Perhaps over the years an insulation fault has developed inside the tube, causing the noise, and the noise current flew via the capacitance and/or leakage path of the open switch in the neutral wire. The noise source must be in the tube itself because it disappears when the tube is removed from its holder. I have two fluorescent tubes in the shack and they generate no noise at all! 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20521 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 09:46:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 09:46:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 27803 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 09:40:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 09:40:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Q4Sg-000478-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 09:30:58 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Q4Sf-000473-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 09:30:58 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 09:24:57 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 09:24:56 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: WA2XTF beacon Message-ID: <3A7FC2E8.28533.9D098@localhost> In-reply-to: <3A7EDD33.5AECC6BB@bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Absolutely, we can transmit at any speed we want > The only limitation would be the ON7YD QRS program: does it allow us > to go slower? (I cannot remember its parameters, and the actual > software is at the transmitter site, of course, not here in my shack, > so I cannot check now how slow it will go). What do you have in mind? > 73 André N4ICK Well, there has been considerable success with Gs being received in Canada and the US using 30 - 60 second dot speeds when faster rates failed. Assuming you have some reasonable data on reception with 3s dots, how about reducing the speed to see how your range improves? Argo will cope with 90s dot lengths, so anything up to that would do. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11268 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 09:21:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 09:21:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 16938 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 09:24:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 09:24:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Q4Cw-00041f-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 09:14:42 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ewey-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.191] helo=ewey.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Q4Cv-00041a-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 09:14:41 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from chilly.excite.com ([199.172.153.77]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010206091415.UEVI15743.ewey.excite.com@chilly.excite.com> for ; Tue, 6 Feb 2001 01:14:15 -0800 Message-ID: <18037217.981450855761.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Date: Tue, 6 Feb 2001 01:14:07 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Is this the Amrad Beacon?? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 213.104.152.56 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, I used Argo last night to monitor the Amrad Beacon frequency at 136.750 kHz and found a signal precisely on frequency to within 0.01 Hz. I used the highest resolution of 120 sec dots, which means that one cannot see the QRSS coding, which is probably 3 sec dots, but the signal could probably not be seen at all if I had set Argo to that dot length. I used the Loran lines to calibrate Argo. To see the best image click on www.g4cnn.f2s.com/amradbeacon.jpg. The signal is about 0.01 Hz low in this picture, but when I recalibrated Argo this morning, I found the nearest Loran line at 136751.5669 also appeared 0.01 Hz low, so this is just a calibration error (still learning). The signal was visible from about 22.00 last night (010205) until 06.00 this morning when it died out. I saw no clear "Dawn effect" on the QRN in these images, but the QRN is low throughout, which might be a result of using this resolution, or perhaps the different frequency. In order to measure to 0.01 Hz accurately, I had to import the images into Paint Shop Pro and use the vernier to measure the difference in position of two consecutive 1 Hz marks and the line. The lack of finer vertical scaling in Argo is the one minor deficiency in this otherwise excellent package. Thanks Alberto. 73, John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10941 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 09:21:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 09:21:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 23250 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 09:24:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 09:24:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Q4As-00041Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 09:12:34 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from thick.mail.pipex.net ([158.43.192.95]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Q4Ap-00041T-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 06 Feb 2001 09:12:31 +0000 Received: (qmail 22597 invoked from network); 6 Feb 2001 09:08:50 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from userck43.uk.uudial.com (62.188.154.85) by smtp-3.dial.pipex.com with SMTP; 6 Feb 2001 09:08:50 -0000 From: "Nick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: Interference from fluorescent tube Date: Tue, 06 Feb 2001 09:11:20 +0000 Message-ID: References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D759A@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> In-reply-to: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D759A@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:16:31 -0000 , you wrote: > >-----Using my portable field strengh meter as a receiver I found the >culprit to be a fluorescent tube mounted over the dresser in our >kitchen. The noise is already present with the tube switched off and >increases upon switching on. >When I remove the tube the noise disappears. >Cleaning the tube on its outside to remove grease and dirt did not help Is there switch leakage or something? How does it make noise without being powered up? Nick From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8690 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 22:34:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 22:34:13 -0000 Received: (qmail 20245 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 22:37:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 22:37:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Pu9z-0000sN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 22:30:59 +0000 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93] helo=rhenium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Pu9w-0000sH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 22:30:56 +0000 Received: from [213.122.221.226] (helo=default) by rhenium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14Pu9h-0002YI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 22:30:42 +0000 Message-ID: <004401c08fc3$0583eae0$044f073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Fluorescent light QRM Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 22:27:48 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, as result of Dick's, comments I went round my 3 lights. One is a 2foot (60cms) 20W , one is a 4 foot (120cms) and one 75 watt circular tube. The 'detector was an AOR 2700 scanner tuned to 137kHz AM, using a 50cms whip. I do not hear any noise from these units on my receiver. The lights are about 10 to 12m from the vertical portion of my wire aerial and 8 to 10m from my loop. I could only detect noise on the 2700 when it was within about 1.5m of the illuminated tube. I do not have any 'dimmers' in the house. The least was radiated by the circular tube. I have heard noise on 136kHz when a tube was failing and showed a significant 'shadow' at one end of the tube. I have also had trouble when a 'starter' was firing continually even whilst the tube was lit. The straight tubes are mounted on a metallic grounded box, the circular tube is hung from a small grounded metallic triangular plate. Even close up this noise ceased when the light was extinguished. Our switching should be in the 'live' side in the UK, I wonder if Dick has a tube switched in the neutral line. I did test an Osram Dulux EL that Christer mentioned, some while back and did not find any problems.....I will look at one of these again! Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7816 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 21:02:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 21:02:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 24498 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 20:56:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 20:56:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Psa4-0000Ip-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 20:49:48 +0000 Received: from amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.45]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Psa3-0000Ii-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 20:49:47 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-1-243.easynet.co.uk [195.40.206.243]) by amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id EE7E6175F6 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 20:49:26 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <003701c08fb5$8056d240$f3ce28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: The hight-tech learning curve Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 20:50:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have just built a DDS signal generator based on a PIC16F84 and an AD9850 with a backlit Hitachi LCD display; and using surface mount technology throughout. (don't fall off you chair with surprise Andy). Needless to say this is a kit - but I can say, that in spite of advancing years and less than perfect eyesight (at short range) it can be done. This kit, designed by Mick Hodges, G4OPE, covers from 0 to 50MHz and is clocked at 100MHz. There are 16 selectable memories and 8 selectable step sizes. The board is programmed with supplied SW in DOS. The output is filtered by a 3-pole elliptic filter and amplified by an (optional) MAR6 to give an output at 73 and 136kHz of a clean 2.25V P to P waveform. At the moment it is in the testing stage and won't be in use until it is properly installed in a RF proof die-cast box. The kit is produced by Hands Electronics at www.rf-kits.demon.co.uk Regards, Peter, G3LDO I have checked the frequency stability From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26576 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 20:52:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 20:52:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 6316 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 20:56:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 20:56:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Psa3-0000Ij-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 20:49:47 +0000 Received: from amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.45]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PsZz-0000Id-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 20:49:43 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-1-243.easynet.co.uk [195.40.206.243]) by amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id A4839174BC for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 20:49:11 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <003601c08fb5$7fb82140$f3ce28c3@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: e-mail Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 20:04:19 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have been told by the UKonline technical support that they have now fixed the e-mail system but that it will take a short time to process the backlog of e-mail. I'll give them another chance. Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16401 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 20:31:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 20:31:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 20861 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 20:25:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 20:25:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Ps6X-00008c-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 20:19:17 +0000 Received: from rubellite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Ps6N-00008R-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 20:19:07 +0000 Received: from w8k3f0 (Nidorina.Pokemon.dialin.freeler.nl [212.26.215.49]) by rubellite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 1362B2ABE for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 20:18:06 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <004f01c08fa8$c4d142a0$31d71ad4@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002001c08f98$14753340$7e2697d4@W98.swipnet.se> Subject: LF: Re: SV: RE: Interference from fluorescent tube Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 20:11:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The Osram Dulux EL Economy low energy fluorescent lamp spreads some terrible noise on 136 kHz. Substituted it with a similar lamp from Philips which proved to be much quieter. /sm6pxj Mine is a Philips one .... 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6077 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 20:22:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 20:22:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 21613 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 20:26:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 20:26:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Ps6R-00008a-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 20:19:11 +0000 Received: from rubellite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Ps6N-00008Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 20:19:07 +0000 Received: from w8k3f0 (Nidorina.Pokemon.dialin.freeler.nl [212.26.215.49]) by rubellite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 48CA92AC1 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 20:18:08 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <005001c08fa8$c5824320$31d71ad4@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002001c08f98$14753340$7e2697d4@W98.swipnet.se> <002701c08fa1$639e01a0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> Subject: LF: Re: Re: SV: RE: Interference from fluorescent tube Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 20:19:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > > Have I got it correct that Philips products are also made/at least > headquartered in Holland? > > Larry > VA3LK That is correct. 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2207 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 19:39:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 19:39:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 10189 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 19:33:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 19:33:26 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PrGS-0008P4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 19:25:28 +0000 Received: from smtp.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.193.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PrGP-0008Oz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 19:25:25 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from default (p1495.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.170.220]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id UAA00785 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 20:25:09 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <200102051925.UAA00785@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 20:25:20 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: Re: LF: Organization: NL9222 X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 2/5/01 11:06:00, you wrote: >> Dexter, Laurie.. >> Congratulations on making it across ( more than once ) >> I hope it will be rewarded properly this time.. >> I inquired once for the litlle i did (1st swl: PA - VA) as just an swl >> but never ever got any response to it, not even a denial What a way to >> encourage newcomers to 136k, perhaps swl's are more useless on this >> band than i thought! >> Ko Versteeg, NL9222. > >Ko, > >I think several people recognised your achievement when for a short while you >and Larry held the world one-way distance record. > >The Transatlantic page on my web site says: > >=============== > >On the second night, Sat/Sun, conditions deteriorated and static levels >were very high. VE1ZZ saw no amateur signals, and he was not positively >identified in the UK. However, SWL KO, NL9222, received VA3LK on >Sunday evening, creating a new world one-way record. > >========== > > > >Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) >http://www.lf.thersgb.net Hi Mike.. (Is your email adress still valid?, it just came back to me) Thanks for your effort, i have copies of the events for my "harmonics" to save ;-) At first i thought it could not be done. Like some think i am in no way dissapointed and will continue this 2nd year (I used to be a 20Meter band SSTV addict for 15 years, but it seems they all went to a qrmfree internet) 73 and apologies if i offended anyone. (Some do apologize) Ko, NL9222 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10870 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 19:07:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 19:07:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 8982 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 19:10:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 19:10:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PqvB-0008H8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 19:03:29 +0000 Received: from cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.177]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Pqv7-0008H2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 19:03:25 +0000 Received: from modem-3.angainor.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.110.131] helo=lvm) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14Pqus-0005j4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 19:03:11 +0000 Message-ID: <000401c08fa6$cfdec480$836e883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: Re. Beacon. Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 18:45:56 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Sri no beacon tonight. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 314 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 18:34:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 18:34:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 17052 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 18:37:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 18:37:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PqPF-00086U-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 18:30:29 +0000 Received: from tomts5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.25] helo=tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PqPC-000862-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 18:30:26 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.209.110.44]) by tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010205182940.BGQQ27416.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:29:40 -0500 Message-ID: <002701c08fa1$639e01a0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002001c08f98$14753340$7e2697d4@W98.swipnet.se> Subject: LF: Re: SV: RE: Interference from fluorescent tube Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:19:12 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings! The Osram Dulux EL Economy low energy fluorescent lamp spreads some terrible noise on 136 kHz. Substituted it with a similar lamp from Philips which proved to be much quieter. /sm6pxj Have I got it correct that Philips products are also made/at least headquartered in Holland? Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7404 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 17:30:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 17:30:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 3994 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 17:33:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 17:33:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PpMA-0007gl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 17:23:14 +0000 Received: from fep03.swip.net ([130.244.199.131] helo=fep03-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PpM8-0007ge-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 17:23:12 +0000 Received: from W98 ([212.151.38.126]) by fep03-svc.swip.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with SMTP id <20010205172227.ZOF465.fep03-svc.swip.net@W98> for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 18:22:27 +0100 Message-ID: <002001c08f98$14753340$7e2697d4@W98.swipnet.se> From: "C Andersson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: SV: RE: Interference from fluorescent tube Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 18:21:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The Osram Dulux EL Economy low energy fluorescent lamp spreads some terrible noise on 136 kHz. Substituted it with a similar lamp from Philips which proved to be much quieter. /sm6pxj From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6814 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 17:26:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 17:26:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 2951 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 17:30:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 17:30:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PpCp-0007fM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 17:13:35 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from immtapop3.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.40.140]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PpCo-0007fA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 17:13:34 +0000 Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-117-14.bellatlantic.net [151.200.117.14]) by immtapop3.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA29348; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:13:18 -0500 (EST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A7EDE6C.D537F511@bellatlantic.net> Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 12:10:05 -0500 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: "lf, AMRAD" Subject: Re: LF: PLL / Loop antennas References: <5501.200102051521@gemini> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz wrote: > Re: Phase locked loops; Andre wrote- > > >"...the implementation of figure 8.6 has a resolution of 0.35 > > degrees. > > A fixed error in frequency means a constantly increasing error in phase. Suppose a phase locked loop has a reference frequency of 1MHz exactly, and is trying to lock a VCO which is running at 1.000001MHz. If both reference and VCO have the same phase at one particular moment, one cycle later the VCO will be leading in phase by 1e-6 cycles, or 0.00036 degrees, which may well be lost in the noise and other errors at the phase detector output. But after 2 cycles it will be 0.00072 degrees, after about 972 cycles, the accumulated phase error will be 0.35 degrees, and after 1000000 cycles it will be 360 degrees. However small the frequency error, over a long enough time the phase error will increase to the point where it becomes the dominant signal in the feedback loop - probably a rather small fraction of a second in the above example. Yes Jim, I agree entirely. That is why my original posting mentioned that whenever we insert a divider-by-N between VCO and phase detector, we must keep in mind that the VCO can drift N times more than the phase angle at the phase detector/comparator. That error may, or may not be significant. 73 Andre' From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4873 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 17:25:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 17:25:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 299 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 17:28:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 17:28:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PpCp-0007fK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 17:13:35 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from immtapop3.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.40.140]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PpCm-0007f9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 17:13:33 +0000 Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-117-14.bellatlantic.net [151.200.117.14]) by immtapop3.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id MAA29305; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:13:14 -0500 (EST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A7EDD33.5AECC6BB@bellatlantic.net> Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 12:04:52 -0500 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, "lf, AMRAD" Subject: LF: WA2XTF beacon References: <3A7EC25C.23669.13BB591@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by immtapop3.bellatlantic.net id MAA29305 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Mike, Absolutely, we can transmit at any speed we want The only limitation would be the ON7YD QRS program: does it allow us to go slower? (I cannot remember its parameters, and the actual software is at the transmitter site, of course, not here in my shack, so I cannot check now how slow it will go). What do you have in mind? 73 André N4ICK ********************************** Mike Dennison wrote: > > For more than one year now, we have had a QRS beacon on the air 24/7 > > (at least, weather permitting) but our presnt "Part 5" license only > > allows us to transmit on 136.750 +/- 5 Hz. Our beacon is being heard, > > and seen, regularly in London (but that is London, Ontario, not London > > UK) 73 Andre' > > Andre, > > Presumably this is 3s dot QRS. Are you permitted to go to much > longer dots? > > Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) > http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6586 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 17:07:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 17:07:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 14276 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 17:10:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 17:10:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Poze-0007YF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 16:59:58 +0000 Received: from mail2.globocabo.com.br ([200.231.181.97] helo=ntweb.globocabo.com.br) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Pozb-0007Y8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 16:59:56 +0000 Received: from spovdesi1625 (SPOVD-ESI-1625 [5.8.14.13]) by ntweb.globocabo.com.br with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2653.13) id D9WD9ZC9; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:55:42 -0300 Message-ID: <015b01c08f9c$bfb2a540$0d0e0805@globocabo.com.br> From: "PY3CRX PY2PLL" To: "LF Group" References: <5501.200102051521@gemini> Subject: LF: Re: PLL / Loop antennas Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 15:54:51 -0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------070204020707080409000201" X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------070204020707080409000201 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit
Hi James et all ...

James=> In the LF range, and loop inductances of the order of 10s of uH, 0.1 ohm will be significant.
 
    The copper octagon inductance I'm using to test (4.8m perimeter) is 3.48 uhy, so not so low. The HF resistance (skin effects) are something like 0,018 ohm at 260KHz.
 
    This values, generated by Rejloop1 and Antenna Optimizer - both softwares gave basically the same results - was used on a third calculation tool (RF1.1 from Academic Tech - Au).
 
    The C values that Rej1 states, when applied to Antenna Optimizer, made loop shows 0,0XX ohm +/-j 0,00XX.
 
Using this values on RF 1.1 I tried to model this loop this simplified way (software accepts xformer inductances/DC resistance):
 
 
 
 
    Then trimming turn ratio, the calculated Z aproaches 50 ohm. I know it's a simple aproximation, there's more losses but ... The good part: I built a 50 ohm resistive swr bridge and using the signal generator I could confirm the predicted SWRs on 120, 260, 400 and 600 KHz (27 ... 68 ohm j +/- 0).
 
James => Bearing in mind multiple switches will probably be needed, this can be a real problem. We found relays were really the only option for remote switching, and even then you have to be careful - reed relays had losses around 0.1 - 0.5 ohms, much higher than their DC resistance. The best bet are relays intended for UHF antenna changeover duty.
 
It's a receive only design for now. But I'll re-run calculations adding common relays/capacitor losses to see what expect.
 
My other objective is cross measured FS versus predicted software values.
 
Thanks on the sugestions James.
 
73
Marcus
PY3CRX/PY2PLL
S. B. do Campo - GG66rf
http://py.qsl.br
Active from "DC" to 24GHz
 
 
 
 

 
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5 Feb 2001 17:03:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 17:03:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 28645 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 16:57:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 16:57:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Pomb-0007Ti-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 16:46:29 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from d06lmsgate-2.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PomX-0007TZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 16:46:26 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.147]) by d06lmsgate-2.uk.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id QAA12872 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 16:30:54 GMT Received: from usa.net (ss6.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.71]) by d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id QAA191742 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 16:45:19 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A7ED896.557EFACD@usa.net> Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 17:45:10 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Argo - even better References: <3A7E8C90.13273.69943D@localhost> <3A7E9A43.B56B5E42@usa.net> <004601c08f89$618ebd90$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Larry Kayser wrote: > [snip] > Alberto, in my self interest I would prefer you also don't go out and play > in the traffic either. > [snip] Uhhh, Larry... I will follow your suggestion, in *my* interest :-) !!! 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2127 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 15:43:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 15:43:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 18721 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 15:46:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 15:46:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Pniz-00073F-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 15:38:41 +0000 Received: from tomts8.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.52] helo=tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Pnix-00072x-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 15:38:39 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.209.138.20]) by tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010205153748.VRWC10080.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:37:48 -0500 Message-ID: <004601c08f89$618ebd90$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3A7E8C90.13273.69943D@localhost> <3A7E9A43.B56B5E42@usa.net> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Argo - even better Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:36:14 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alberto: > Mike Dennison wrote: > > > [snip] > > One suggestion, can we have more frequency ticks, please. When > > in 90s mode the screen is about 1Hz high but the ticks are no better > > than 1Hz. Ticks at 0.1Hz would be useful. > > [snip] > > Mike, > thanks for your appreciation. > About your request, the frequency scale is implemented using a visual > component I wrote a couple of years ago, modifying an exisiting > 'ruler display'. Argo is written in C++, but that specific component is > in Object Pascal. To do what you ask for, I have to temporarily switch > again my mindset from C to Pascal. This doesn't mean I won't do it, > just don't expect it for tomorrow ! Alberto, in my self interest I would prefer you also don't go out and play in the traffic either. A left handed way of saying a very LOUD THANK YOU for your efforts. Wonderful Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19731 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 15:34:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 15:34:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 7073 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 15:36:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 15:36:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PnaB-00071H-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 15:29:35 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Pna8-0006yF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 15:29:33 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.230.67]) by jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:28:45 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A7F3A76.7480FBFF@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 15:42:47 -0800 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en,pdf MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: G-VE by XDV? References: <3A7EA689.29299.CF057E@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Mike , I don't have the pictures with me at work. I do remember the lines above Jim's frequency. I will check it out at home I will be looking tonight from 2000Z 73 de John VE1ZJ Mike Dennison wrote: > Thanks to Markus, DF6NM, and John, VE1ZJ, for their > spectrograms of last Saturday night's transatlantic tests. I am > particularly grateful as it appears from careful analysis of the pics > that my signals got across, too. I don't think I have my wishful > thinking filter switch in. > > I transmitted 10s dots until about midnight 0.4Hz HF of Jim. My > dashes can be clearly seen on Markus's picture (posted to the > group under the title "Signals around 135.923"). You can't see much > of the Morse itself because he has optimised for 30s dots, but it can > be worked out. > > Right at the start of John's first picture (at > http://www.wireless.org.uk/newspic44.htm ) you can see a trace > above Jim's dashes, disappearing after a few characters. I made > the vertical scale on John's and Markus's spectrograms the same, > and five transmssions (G3XDV, M0BMU, G3XTZ, G3YXM, G3AQC) > fit perfectly. The attached composite image shows this. > > Of course, a couple of blobs on a screen are not enough, but > encouraged by this I will transmit 30s dot CW this evening (actually > groups of one or three dashes as my keyer won't do greater than > 10s dots!). > > Thanks again fellers. > > Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) > http://www.lf.thersgb.net > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > The following section of this message contains a file attachment > prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format. > If you are using Pegasus Mail, or any another MIME-compliant system, > you should be able to save it or view it from within your mailer. > If you cannot, please ask your system administrator for assistance. > > ---- File information ----------- > File: ve-xdv1.jpg > Date: 5 Feb 2001, 13:08 > Size: 8662 bytes. > Type: JPEG-image > > ------------------------------------------------------------------------ > Name: ve-xdv1.jpg > ve-xdv1.jpg Type: JPEG Image (Image/JPEG) > Encoding: BASE64 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4265 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 15:25:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 15:25:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 14069 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 15:29:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 15:29:36 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PnSt-0006x5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 15:22:03 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PnSp-0006wy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 15:21:59 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14PnSV-0001o3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 15:21:39 +0000 Message-ID: <5501.200102051521@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 15:25:37 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/enriched; charset=US-ASCII Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: PLL / Loop antennas X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group,

I Think my E-mail account has started working again - about 80 E- mails turned up this morning. Glad to see some more signals have made it across the Atlantic. I will wade through all the stuff - eventually!

Re: Phase locked loops; Andre wrote-

>"...the implementation of figure 8.6 has a resolution of 0.35
> degrees.

A fixed error in frequency means a constantly increasing error in phase. Suppose a phase locked loop has a reference frequency of 1MHz exactly, and is trying to lock a VCO which is running at 1.000001MHz. If both reference and VCO have the same phase at one particular moment, one cycle later the VCO will be leading in phase by 1e-6 cycles, or 0.00036 degrees, which may well be lost in the noise and other errors at the phase detector output. But after 2 cycles it will be 0.00072 degrees, after about 972 cycles, the accumulated ph ase error will be 0.35 degrees, and after 1000000 cycles it will be 360 degrees. However small the frequency error, over a long enough time the phase error will increase to the point where it becomes the dominant signal in the feedback loop - probably a rather small fraction of a second in the above example.

Re - loop antennas - Marcus wrote:

>I'll repeat those readings on a 4m diameter aluminum loop, 17mm >tube, assoon as I finish my remotely controlled capacitor decade >circuit (1nf steps from 0 to 350nf). Seems that the 1 turn solution >will perform well -and the best part - no pre-amp, but the decade C >:o(

In theory and to a reasonable approximation, the SNR of a loop depends only upon it's effective area and Q, and not on the number of turns. This assumes a preamp or receiver input which does not add significantly to the noise generated by the loop itself, which is usually possible. So a 1 turn loop is quite reasonable, with obvious mechanical advantages. But there are also difficulties. Tuning capacitance has to be very large at LF. Impedances are very low, so resistances must also be kept very low in order to avoid severely reducing Q. At U of H, we found wide range, switched tuning capacitors difficult to implement with a single turn loop, mostly due to trouble finding low-resistance switches. In the LF range, and loop inductances of the order of 10s of uH, 0.1 ohm will be significant. Bearing in mind multiple switches will probably be needed, this can be a real problem. We found relays were really the only option for remote switching, and even then you have to be careful - reed relays had losses around 0.1 - 0.5 ohms, much higher than their DC resistance. The best bet are relays intended for UHF antenna changeover duty.

However, problems can be greatly eased by going to larger loop sizes - with the increased signal level, and t he high noise levels on LF, optimum Q is not then required, and tuning arrangements are less critical. I am currently using 2 square, single turn loops with 3m sides, made from 1.5mm^2 wire, mounted on the same pole, roughly at right angles. One of the two loops is selected by a relay, giving 360 degree coverage. This is connected to a tuner in the shack by about 25m of RG58 coax. the tuner has (for 136kHz), a 700uH inductor in series with the loop, tuned by about 2nF to ground. A high impedance preamp input is connected to the hot end of the tuning C. Although this is far from optimum from the noise viewpoint, external noise appears to be the limit on sensitivity. This antenna has worked well for receiving the various transatlantic signals. It can be tuned over a wide range by switching in different tuning capacitors and inductors, and has also worked well for 73kHz.

Cheers, Jim Moritz
73 de M0BMU



From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26261 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 15:20:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 15:20:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 5674 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 15:24:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 15:24:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PnIV-0006vm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 15:11:19 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PnIU-0006vh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 15:11:18 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 15:10:22 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 15:10:20 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: G3AQC complete call Q5 in USA Message-ID: <3A7EC25C.23669.13BB591@localhost> In-reply-to: <3A7EB971.E29A9C0E@bellatlantic.net> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > For more than one year now, we have had a QRS beacon on the air 24/7 > (at least, weather permitting) but our presnt "Part 5" license only > allows us to transmit on 136.750 +/- 5 Hz. Our beacon is being heard, > and seen, regularly in London (but that is London, Ontario, not London > UK) 73 Andre' Andre, Presumably this is 3s dot QRS. Are you permitted to go to much longer dots? Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13467 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 14:50:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 14:50:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 5545 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 14:54:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 14:54:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Pmtv-0006jv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 14:45:55 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Pmtu-0006jq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 14:45:54 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id OAA12164; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:47:24 GMT Received: (qmail 21600 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 15:38:44 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 15:38:44 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id PAA11638; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 15:29:04 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma011457; Mon, 5 Feb 01 15:28:27 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-3.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:48:37 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-3.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1L20VHRJ>; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:44:35 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D759A@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Interference from fluorescent tube Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:16:31 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
I also noticed bad interference from a fluorescent tube - wondered why the waterfall background got lighter just after I'd started watching it in real time once.   Here, the light is located 3m under the top load wires of the antenna and adds 10 - 15dB to the noise floor on 137 when switched on even though it is a  new light fitting.   Fortunately I spotted this at the time of the shack rebuild and added another light into the wiring for use when receiving - a normal filament spotlight.
'JNT
-----Using my portable field strengh meter as a receiver I found the culprit to be a fluorescent tube mounted over the dresser in our kitchen. The noise is already present with the tube switched off and increases upon switching on.
When I remove the tube the noise disappears.
Cleaning the tube on its outside to remove grease and dirt did not help


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 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19406 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 14:46:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 14:46:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 25796 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 14:40:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 14:40:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Pmgh-0006f2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 14:32:15 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.40.143]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PmgY-0006ex-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 14:32:06 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-118-167.bellatlantic.net [151.200.118.167]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id JAA29224; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:31:53 -0500 (EST) Message-ID: <3A7EB971.E29A9C0E@bellatlantic.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 09:32:17 -0500 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, "Strobbe, Rik" Cc: "lf, AMRAD" , "Tacos, AMRAD" Subject: Re: LF: G3AQC complete call Q5 in USA References: <3.0.1.16.20010203164017.3fd7a4a4@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <3.0.1.16.20010205150224.2dbfd5ba@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net id JAA29224 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik Strobbe wrote: > Hi André, > > >The problem is not with the AMRAD licenses, unfortunately. The FCC issued us > >(AMRAD) a "Part 5 license", i.e., an experimental license that only allows us > >to talk to one another, not as amateur operators, but as experimenters. (We > >all have the same call-sign WA2XTF). Hence we cannot communicate with other > >hams. > > I wasn't aware of that. But since Dexter could copy UK stations running > abt. 350mW ERP it might be worth putting up a 24h beacon arround 137790, > would allow the Eu's to monitor beacons in the US and Canada at same time > (just stay a few Hz away from Larry). For more than one year now, we have had a QRS beacon on the air 24/7 (at least, weather permitting) but our presnt "Part 5" license only allows us to transmit on 136.750 +/- 5 Hz. Our beacon is being heard, and seen, regularly in London (but that is London, Ontario, not London UK) 73 Andre' From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23658 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 13:23:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 13:23:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 26505 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 13:26:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 13:26:18 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PlUe-0006Ez-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 13:15:44 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PlUY-0006Et-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 13:15:39 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 13:11:39 +0000 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:11:37 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------050501030304040205040403" Subject: LF: G-VE by XDV? Message-ID: <3A7EA689.29299.CF057E@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050501030304040205040403 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Thanks to Markus, DF6NM, and John, VE1ZJ, for their spectrograms of last Saturday night's transatlantic tests. I am particularly grateful as it appears from careful analysis of the pics that my signals got across, too. I don't think I have my wishful thinking filter switch in. I transmitted 10s dots until about midnight 0.4Hz HF of Jim. My dashes can be clearly seen on Markus's picture (posted to the group under the title "Signals around 135.923"). You can't see much of the Morse itself because he has optimised for 30s dots, but it can be worked out. Right at the start of John's first picture (at http://www.wireless.org.uk/newspic44.htm ) you can see a trace above Jim's dashes, disappearing after a few characters. I made the vertical scale on John's and Markus's spectrograms the same, and five transmssions (G3XDV, M0BMU, G3XTZ, G3YXM, G3AQC) fit perfectly. The attached composite image shows this. Of course, a couple of blobs on a screen are not enough, but encouraged by this I will transmit 30s dot CW this evening (actually groups of one or three dashes as my keyer won't do greater than 10s dots!). Thanks again fellers. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net --------------050501030304040205040403 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; name="Attachment information..txt" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="Attachment information..txt" The following section of this message contains a file attachment prepared for transmission using the Internet MIME message format. 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dqt5yJIovnI80EVWLqDRx9a5QRqS35VRbiKF809RFX2Q8Ttcck5rpNBUJaQCfU0Gu29wAe1A 3EB0ckdhTy4klVYEfpLQ+tKXsKf0TA+tTLofvH3FB7gDQpzDkYpeXGdLls2qNdzCEDD3rcW6 sQWFTW8QR5o9qbjkEw5I608omCcRcIgyfWmtnMfNl9zSrfDMA505k0hdCSDtyIqTlNLOnQ5Q Dy5frUSCTuBWU2J1JGm9LnQfdBq+cM6OEYahp9DRF0A+YsO4pRctEHN5Y2A50ha2eTVPKT4e KzXgw3c+9IHI2J+tBeDzcj2rZrI01NWc/wC0xiXfYE0ALinVTThrQ2usPagzryusfaps/pgp cQnW0DTM6j5Uy1PNbCyHluYIoF1iAR+dPKf08Thyf1pHpTjija4T71BmQRlObrIoLcAImKec W8RxBYuM28VqF8oXGQyIrVw5fVf/2Q== --------------050501030304040205040403-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18649 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 13:19:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 13:19:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 19283 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 13:22:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 13:22:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PlQx-0006EN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 13:11:55 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PlQv-0006EG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 13:11:54 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA138178 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 14:11:36 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010205150224.2dbfd5ba@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 15:02:24 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: G3AQC complete call Q5 in USA In-reply-to: <3A7C2009.28DC7209@bellatlantic.net> References: <3.0.1.16.20010203164017.3fd7a4a4@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi André, >The problem is not with the AMRAD licenses, unfortunately. The FCC issued us >(AMRAD) a "Part 5 license", i.e., an experimental license that only allows us >to talk to one another, not as amateur operators, but as experimenters. (We >all have the same call-sign WA2XTF). Hence we cannot communicate with other >hams. I wasn't aware of that. But since Dexter could copy UK stations running abt. 350mW ERP it might be worth putting up a 24h beacon arround 137790, would allow the Eu's to monitor beacons in the US and Canada at same time (just stay a few Hz away from Larry). 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24481 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 13:13:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 13:13:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 26168 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 13:07:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 13:07:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PlB1-00068F-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 12:55:27 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout05.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PlAz-00066T-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 12:55:26 +0000 Received: from fwd00.sul.t-online.com by mailout05.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14PlAh-0007CZ-01; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 13:55:07 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from (087321565-0001@[217.2.68.53]) by fwd00.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14PlAY-0LLDLGC; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:54:58 +0100 From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3A7E870B.22556.5402A0@localhost> Subject: Re: LF: Earthing the mast X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.34 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 13:54:58 +0100 Message-ID: <14PlAY-0LLDLGC@fwd00.sul.t-online.com> X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thank You for this description! I would recommend: Keep both masts grounded. 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB Mike Dennison schrieb: > A few weeks ago there was a discussion about whether to earth > masts, or leave them 'floating'. > > In the continuous search for more dBs I tried earthing my mast on > Saturday. > > I have a 14m (45ft) mast attached to the brick wall of the house by > 'T' and 'K' brackets, standing off about 300mm (1ft). Its base is > 600mm (2ft) above ground level. The vertical part of the antenna is > about 1m (3ft) away from the mast. > > I connected the mast to the wire which runs from the Tx to the earth > stakes. I expected the capacitance between the mast and the > vertical to change the tuning. The change was in fact very small, but > the first thing I noticed was the variometer tuning became much > more critical. The second thing was a 10 per cent increase in > antenna current. Conclusion: the Q of the antenna had increased. > > I was still prepared to believe that I had simply added a capacitor > from the antenna to earth, but when I checked the receive > performance the signals improved by 1-2dB (tested by monitoring > DCF and detuning until one of the 'S-meter' LCD blobs flickered, > then noting that the blob stayed on with the earth connected), and > the local noise level reduced at the same time. > > Another effect, in the short time since I made this change, has been > the antenna current has been stable. Before, it would vary by > between 10 and 20 percent from one day to the next, depending on > the weather, and I assumed this was absorption by trees. > > It seems that the mast/wall was acting as a resistor to earth, > absorbing a different amount of RF from day to day. > > I also earthed the mast at the far end of my inverted-L and > connected the two with a wire, but this had much less effect. This > mast is already stuck in the mud at its base so was probably already > earthy. > > What to do next? > > Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) > http://www.lf.thersgb.net > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 355 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 12:53:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 12:53:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 17974 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 12:47:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 12:47:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PkwZ-00060c-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 12:40:31 +0000 Received: from lepidachrosite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PkwY-00060X-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 12:40:30 +0000 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust228.tnt13.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.116.120.228]) by lepidachrosite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 4698CCAE88 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:39:59 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <004301c08f68$bb18a860$e47874d5@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Interference from fluorescent tube Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:41:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
To All from PA0SE
 
In my report on signals received over the weekend 27/28 January I mentioned that reception was hampered by noise from a local electric appliance.
Last weekend the noise was there again and I decided to investigate.
Using my portable field strengh meter as a receiver I found the culprit to be a fluorescent tube mounted over the dresser in our kitchen. The noise is already present with the tube switched off and increases upon switching on.
When I remove the tube the noise disappears.
Cleaning the tube on its outside to remove grease and dirt did not help.
 
As the tube performs normally as a source of light (and being a Dutchman) I don't replace it. Instead I pull its plug when I want to operate.
The tube has been in use for several years already but the noise only recently started.
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3317 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 12:24:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 12:24:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 26405 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 12:27:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 12:27:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PkdS-0005uT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 12:20:46 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from d06lmsgate-3.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PkdQ-0005uL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 12:20:45 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.147]) by d06lmsgate-3.uk.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id MAA114444 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:11:14 GMT Received: from usa.net (ss1.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.66]) by d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id MAA212520 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:19:25 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A7E9A43.B56B5E42@usa.net> Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 13:19:15 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Argo - even better References: <3A7E8C90.13273.69943D@localhost> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike Dennison wrote: > [snip] > One suggestion, can we have more frequency ticks, please. When > in 90s mode the screen is about 1Hz high but the ticks are no better > than 1Hz. Ticks at 0.1Hz would be useful. > [snip] Mike, thanks for your appreciation. About your request, the frequency scale is implemented using a visual component I wrote a couple of years ago, modifying an exisiting 'ruler display'. Argo is written in C++, but that specific component is in Object Pascal. To do what you ask for, I have to temporarily switch again my mindset from C to Pascal. This doesn't mean I won't do it, just don't expect it for tomorrow ! 73 Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26799 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 12:19:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 12:19:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 15136 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 12:22:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 12:22:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PkYb-0005td-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 12:15:45 +0000 Received: from mta01-svc.ntlworld.com ([62.253.162.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PkYa-0005tY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 12:15:45 +0000 Received: from compaq ([62.253.51.39]) by mta01-svc.ntlworld.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20010205121528.NWGR6427.mta01-svc.ntlworld.com@compaq> for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:15:28 +0000 Message-ID: <00da01c08f6d$545f1aa0$2733fd3e@compaq> From: "tracey.gardner" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Ferrite Rod Antenna Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 12:15:28 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Is anyone on this list in the process of buying a 34 inch ferrite rod antenna from the Netherlands? 73s Tracey From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19892 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 11:51:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 11:51:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 2099 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 11:53:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 11:53:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PjvL-0005db-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 11:35:11 +0000 Received: from cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.174]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PjvK-0005dV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 11:35:10 +0000 Received: from modem-4.apanonar.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.117.4] helo=lvm) by cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14Pjv4-0000jB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 11:34:55 +0000 Message-ID: <000e01c08f68$2f7a7860$0475883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Gs seen in W4 Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:38:06 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Many thanks Mike ,I was very thrilled to get the reports . Yes I was using 2:1 ratio to try to keep things as short as possible so as not to miss a short opening.Now working on DFCW for same reason,and the eventual QSO of course. ---Original Message----- From: Mike Dennison To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 05 February 2001 10:39 Subject: LF: Gs seen in W4 Congratulations to Dex, Jim and Laurie for the first G-W on 136kHz. I have just looked at Dex's spectrograms and these are so clear that it looks like 10s dots would work fine. Using DFCW and 10s dots would reduce the transmission time sufficient to exchange a resonable amount of information before conditions worsen. It looks like Laurie is using a 2:1 dash:dot ratio. Is this correct? Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13458 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 11:46:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 11:46:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 21935 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 11:49:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 11:49:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PjrM-0005d3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 11:31:04 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PjrL-0005cy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 11:31:03 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 11:20:50 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:20:48 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Argo - even better Message-ID: <3A7E8C90.13273.69943D@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Alberto, Once again you have made some really useful improvements to the excellent Argo (new Build 119). In particular, the frequency calibration facility is superb. I tried it on the 90s setting and found I could alter the calibration down to 0.01Hz. I was previously setting the AF out of my IC-706 to, say, 790Hz for 137.790kHz to get direct frequency readout on Argo. The BFO is only in 10Hz steps, so I had to offset the main tuning to achieve a good readout on Argo. Now I can select BBC 198.000kHz on VFO A, calibrate Argo, then use VFO B knowing that the frequency readout on 136kHz is accurate to better than 0.1Hz. Brilliant. One suggestion, can we have more frequency ticks, please. When in 90s mode the screen is about 1Hz high but the ticks are no better than 1Hz. Ticks at 0.1Hz would be useful. Thanks. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 802 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 11:30:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 11:30:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 15036 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 11:34:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 11:34:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Pjcl-0005Xp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 11:15:59 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PjcW-0005Xk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 11:15:45 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 11:07:00 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:06:58 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Organization: NL9222 Message-ID: <3A7E8952.260.5CE969@localhost> In-reply-to: <200102031456.PAA23427@smtp.wanadoo.nl> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Dexter, Laurie.. > Congratulations on making it across ( more than once ) > I hope it will be rewarded properly this time.. > I inquired once for the litlle i did (1st swl: PA - VA) as just an swl > but never ever got any response to it, not even a denial What a way to > encourage newcomers to 136k, perhaps swl's are more useless on this > band than i thought! > Ko Versteeg, NL9222. Ko, I think several people recognised your achievement when for a short while you and Larry held the world one-way distance record. The Transatlantic page on my web site says: =============== On the second night, Sat/Sun, conditions deteriorated and static levels were very high. VE1ZZ saw no amateur signals, and he was not positively identified in the UK. However, SWL KO, NL9222, received VA3LK on Sunday evening, creating a new world one-way record. ========== Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13140 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 11:25:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 11:25:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 20072 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 11:19:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 11:19:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PjOV-0005TX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 11:01:15 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PjOT-0005TS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 11:01:14 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 10:57:16 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:57:15 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Earthing the mast Message-ID: <3A7E870B.22556.5402A0@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: A few weeks ago there was a discussion about whether to earth masts, or leave them 'floating'. In the continuous search for more dBs I tried earthing my mast on Saturday. I have a 14m (45ft) mast attached to the brick wall of the house by 'T' and 'K' brackets, standing off about 300mm (1ft). Its base is 600mm (2ft) above ground level. The vertical part of the antenna is about 1m (3ft) away from the mast. I connected the mast to the wire which runs from the Tx to the earth stakes. I expected the capacitance between the mast and the vertical to change the tuning. The change was in fact very small, but the first thing I noticed was the variometer tuning became much more critical. The second thing was a 10 per cent increase in antenna current. Conclusion: the Q of the antenna had increased. I was still prepared to believe that I had simply added a capacitor from the antenna to earth, but when I checked the receive performance the signals improved by 1-2dB (tested by monitoring DCF and detuning until one of the 'S-meter' LCD blobs flickered, then noting that the blob stayed on with the earth connected), and the local noise level reduced at the same time. Another effect, in the short time since I made this change, has been the antenna current has been stable. Before, it would vary by between 10 and 20 percent from one day to the next, depending on the weather, and I assumed this was absorption by trees. It seems that the mast/wall was acting as a resistor to earth, absorbing a different amount of RF from day to day. I also earthed the mast at the far end of my inverted-L and connected the two with a wire, but this had much less effect. This mast is already stuck in the mud at its base so was probably already earthy. What to do next? Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19051 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 10:38:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 10:38:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 1389 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 10:42:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 10:42:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Pj0i-0005It-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 10:36:40 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mailout06.sul.t-online.com ([194.25.134.19]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Pj0g-0005Io-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 10:36:38 +0000 Received: from fwd06.sul.t-online.com by mailout06.sul.t-online.com with smtp id 14Pj0R-0000Yw-06; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 11:36:23 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from t-online.de (320038607418-0001@[62.155.253.30]) by fwd06.sul.t-online.com with esmtp id 14Pj0C-06OWWWC; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 11:36:08 +0100 Message-ID: <3A7EFAC7.81F1CDC6@t-online.de> Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 11:11:03 -0800 From: "Peter Bertram" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.08 [de]C-DT (Win16; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Articles in QEX References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Sender: 320038607418-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello David, did you already get your copy? I subscribed but up to now this issue is still missing. 73, Peter From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9274 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 10:35:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 10:35:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 16029 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 10:38:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 10:38:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PivM-0005IW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 10:31:08 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PivE-0005IR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 10:31:00 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 10:23:57 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:23:55 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Gs seen in W4 Message-ID: <3A7E7F3B.13589.357F29@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Congratulations to Dex, Jim and Laurie for the first G-W on 136kHz. I have just looked at Dex's spectrograms and these are so clear that it looks like 10s dots would work fine. Using DFCW and 10s dots would reduce the transmission time sufficient to exchange a resonable amount of information before conditions worsen. It looks like Laurie is using a 2:1 dash:dot ratio. Is this correct? Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28536 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 09:32:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 09:32:20 -0000 Received: (qmail 19835 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 09:26:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 09:26:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PhnE-0004vJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 09:18:40 +0000 Received: from amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.45]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Phmy-0004vD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 09:18:24 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-13-156.easynet.co.uk [212.134.22.156]) by amersham.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id 7A82E17440 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:18:05 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <001401c08f54$e9264c80$9c1686d4@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Fw: LF: GB2CPM Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 09:19:53 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I sent this report on Saturday but it only found its way to Steve; so I am trying to resend it. The problems with this e-mail system seem to be confined to reception so I am reading the reflector via g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk > I planned to work at GB2CPM on Friday but it rained all day so it was called > off > > > > If all goes well I will operate on CW late > > > morning until early afterenoon. > > Steve said > > I hope that the earthing and antenna work is successful. > > > > I will try to 'phone G8IK; G6RO; G8RW; and G6NB later this > > morning (Friday) to advise them of your plans. They are often > > QRV during weekdays. > > I thank you for your promotional efforts Steve and I'm sorry I couldn't make > it. Furthermore my service provider e-mail was off so I couldn't tell > anyone. > > However, I did get there today (Saturday). The primary objective was to work > on the antenna system. I forgot my digital voltmeter so I couldn't use the > 3-M impedance meter. However I think I made progress. > The recap, the antenna at GB2CPM is an inverted L with a 150m top and a 35m > vertical, strung across a valley created by years of chalk extraction. It > should be a good antenna but it is very difficult to find an RF ground and I > use two radials, each around 200m long laid on top of the earth surface. > This system works but the feedpoint is at a fairly high RF voltage. It only > works because the antenna, loading coil and tuner are isolated from ground > and the rig with the ferrite transformer. If the base of the loading coil > and the radials are earthed the antenna will not work. > I did some approximate impedance measurements on the original antenna layout > using two multiple tapped ferrite transformers. From these 'measurements' I > feel that antenna can be thought of as a short dipole with the feedpoint > offset from the electrical centre - hence the high RF potential. > > I then earthed (the best I could) the base of the loading coil. The resonant > point changed and became very broad - although this time it was safer but > didn't work as well. I feel that this move just inserted a large resistance > into the feedpoint somehow. > I have tried resonating the radials in the past but found I had too many > variables to control at the same time (radial resonance, antenna resonance > and impedance matching). > I have two options, one is go for just one radial and extend it to around > 500m. The problem is that the area is forested with a lot of undergrowth. > The second option is to use a large metal building, located about 80 or 90m > away from the 'shack' as a ground. The downside of that is that the earth > wire has to be laid across a road. > > While the antenna was in 'safe' mode I heard G4HYU working GW4ALG. Later I > worked John, G4CNN, who said I was not as strong as the last time I was on. > I heard PA0SE and gave him a call and got a QRZ - normally I can work Dick > without any problem from that location. > G3XDV was S9+, his signal ringing out all over the Amberley Museum site, > working DL3FDO. > > I did suggest this site as a combined site for a transatlantic effort. > However, the problems with the antenna, plus the mud and the additional > industrial junk that has been dumped around the operating spot make it less > than ideal. Nevertheless, watch this space. > Regards, Peter, G3LDO > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4486 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 08:25:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 08:25:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 7205 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 08:28:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 08:28:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PgrV-0004dD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 08:19:01 +0000 Received: from mail1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.18]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PgrU-0004d8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 08:19:00 +0000 Received: from modem-26.almaren.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.102.26] helo=lvm) by mail1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14PgrF-00034f-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 08:18:45 +0000 Message-ID: <000601c08f4c$c90972e0$1a66883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: Re. Beacon. Date: Mon, 5 Feb 2001 08:21:26 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At some time after 00:00 utc my Beacon went off air.(Hopefully only blown fuses) But the message is that DFCW has a more arduous duty cycle than QRS, to be expected of course since the whole idea is to get more information into a certain time span. As it was set- up the the transmitter was "ON" almost continously for at least an hour at a time with only short inter-element gaps.I will need to introduce a few rest periods and perhaps shorten the element length a little.I need to do this anyway in order to shorten the message time.Hopefully I will be back on tonight, anyone listening? 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25096 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 08:15:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 08:15:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 11133 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 08:18:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 08:18:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Pget-0004ZV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 08:05:59 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from kauha.saunalahti.fi ([195.197.53.227]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Pger-0004ZQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 08:05:58 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from default (MMMCMLXVI.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.165.66]) by kauha.saunalahti.fi (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id f1586MC13653 for ; Mon, 5 Feb 2001 10:06:22 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010205100607.00825340@pop.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: vaiski1@pop.saunalahti.fi X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 05 Feb 2001 10:06:07 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: LF: Fs Measurements by OH2LX, 5-Feb-2001 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Fs in dB(uV/m) by OH2LX, abt 2035z (99=Nil): >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> kHz;22jan;23jan;24jan;25jan;26jan;27jan;28jan;29jan;30jan;31jan;01feb;02feb; 03feb;04feb 057.7;99;99;99;99;99;99;99;99;99;99;99;99;99;99;(=stn under construction) 060.0;54;50;49;53;43;54;53;54;54;52;52;53;56;55 068.0;53;47;45;54;50;52;51;52;49;54;52;52;54;52 068.9;99;54;99;56;48;52;51;52;54;56;99;99;99;99 073.2;52;52;48;50;40;50;50;51;49;50;51;50;54;53;(carrier peaking 73.2 or 73.3) 075.0;46;42;44;44;38;43;44;43;44;43;39;40;42;42 077.5;57;60;55;56;48;56;55;52;54;57;56;53;57;59 128.9;50;52;48;46;34;46;45;46;45;46;48;46;48;50 138.8;50;50;44;51;46;45;45;52;47;52;52;48;49;54 135.8;31;32;99;27;25;21;28;23;23;21;22;21;24;22 137.0;99;99;99;99;99;99;99;99;99;03;02;99;99;99 016.0;56;53;52;53;49;51;54;52;56;54;53;56;56;56 018.3;52;50;56;58;56;58;58;58;61;60;62;60;60;62 023.4;70;68;65;68;67;69;66;67;71;66;67;67;67;68 024.0;44;37;43;43;46;50;41;99;50;50;51;48;47;46 ;;Day;22;23;24;25;26;27;28;29;30;31;01;02;03;04 >>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>>> Day;Time;Call;Fs 22jan;2020;SM3UWS;+2 22jan;2035;SM3UWS;+0 22jan;2038;SM3UWS;-0 22jan;2042;SM3UWS;-1 22jan;2231;SM3UWS;-0 23-24jan=separate beacon report 27jan;2056;DJ9IE;+2 27jan;2118;DJ9IE;+3 27jan;2126;DJ9IE;+2 27jan;2154;DJ9IE;+3 27jan;2057;GW4ALG;-7 27jan;2206;ON6ND;-1 27jan;2151;OH1BS;18 28jan;2003;OH1BS;20 28jan;2005;OH1BS;18 28jan;2047;DJ9IE;+3 28jan;2048;GW4ALG;-6 28jan;2126;GW4ALG;-6 28jan;2125;SM6PXJ;+6 29jan;2015;SM6PXJ;+7 29jan;2018;SM6PXJ;+9 29jan;2024;SM6PXJ;11 30jan;2052;CFH;+2 30jan;2100;CFH;+3 30jan;2101;CFH;+5 30jan;2116;CFH;+6 30jan;2123;CFH;+7 30jan;2145;CFH;+4 31jan;2033;OH1TN;20 31jan;2042;OH1TN;19 31jan;2230;DJ9IE;+2 31jan;1910;CFH;-5 31jan;2017;CFH;+4 31jan;2042;CFH;+5 01feb;1948;SM6PXJ;10 01feb;1951;SM6PXJ;+8 01feb;1952;SM6PXJ;+6 01feb;1954;SM6PXJ;+2 01feb;1950;OH1TN;15 01feb;1953;OH1TN;12 03feb;2019;G3OLB;-3 03feb;2020;F6CNI;-6 03feb;2023;OH1BS;22 04feb;2018;DJ9IE;+0 04feb;2022;DJ9IE;+1 04feb;2035;DJ9IE;-0 04feb;2019;OH1BS;23 04feb;2021;OH1BS;20 04feb;2034;OH1BS;24 ------------------------------------------------------- (R&S ESH2/-----10m coax----->/1:10/-----15m wire-----): Noise level (136.3-136.9) with antenna, in 200Hz IF Bw: -26..-24 dB(uV)-> estim. Field strength -6..-4 dB(uV/m) ------------------------------------------------------- End of message of 05-Feb-2001, 0805 UTC, from OH2LX ------------------------------------------------------- |---------------------------------------------------------| | V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX ¤ 60N33.6 024E58.7 KP20LN74 | | P.O.Box 50 ¤ Telephone: +358-9-4173965 | | FIN-05401, Jokela ¤ Telefax: +358-9-4173961 | | Finland ¤ email: vaiski@dlc.fi | |---------------------------------------------------------| From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8141 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 01:49:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 01:49:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 11365 invoked from network); 5 Feb 2001 01:53:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 5 Feb 2001 01:53:29 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PakM-0002uh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 01:47:14 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from imo-d10.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.42]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PakK-0002uc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 05 Feb 2001 01:47:13 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-d10.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.28.10bf714c (4333); Sun, 4 Feb 2001 20:46:27 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <28.10bf714c.27af5ff2@aol.com> Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 20:46:26 EST Subject: Re: LF: PLL inaccuracy To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: akestelo@bellatlantic.net MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 2/4/01 2:16:24 PM Eastern Standard Time, akestelo@bellatlantic.net writes: << Allow me to quote from the book "Phase Locked Loops, Principle and Practice", McGraw Hill 1996, by P.V. Brennan University College, London. Page 22: "...As far as the control loop is concerned, it should be noted that frequency dividers act equally as phase dividers, so that a factor of 1/N must be allowed for in the loop equations". >> This is certainly true. It must be taken into account in designing a loop, but it does not represent a source of _frequency_ error so long as lock is maintained. The example cited from page 128 is such an extreme case that, were the controlled oscillator sufficiently unstable or noisy as to experience short-term excursions beyond 360 degrees at its own frequency--or if the detector were occasionally unable to resolve with the 0.35 degree precision specified--the entire system would be susceptible to coming out of lock entirely! Until that point, the output is still on-frequency, but might exhibit serious phase noise. This is why one must perform phase comparisons at a reasonable division ratio, even if it means sacrificing extremely narrow frequency steps; or else, one has to be much more meticulous in the design of the VCO and the phase comparator, and even then, lockup times may be rather long. 73, John From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23349 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 23:09:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 23:09:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 22552 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 23:12:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 23:12:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PYF2-00029t-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 23:06:44 +0000 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PYF1-00029o-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 23:06:44 +0000 Received: from [62.7.87.97] (helo=default) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14PYEn-0000b2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 23:06:30 +0000 Message-ID: <001201c08efe$de5629c0$6157073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots from GB7DXM for 3/4th Feb Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 21:56:57 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, there was a period when not much happened on the cluster with respect to LF and I got out of the habit of looking for spots. However with the increase in activity this weekend here is a view of some you maybe didn't quite work. I watched the QRS end of the band mid-today and early afternoon and remember seeing Will PA0BWL, Reino OH1TN ( drifting a little ), Valerio IK5ZPV, Marco IK1ODO,and from memory I think it was DL7LA on DFCW, and of course Mike G3XDV. All caught whle I was working elsewhere. Cluster spots follow:- 137.7 DL7YA 4-Feb-2001 1515Z clg OH1TN 137.6 OM2TW 4-Feb-2001 1507Z slow CW CQ 137.7 OH1TN 4-Feb-2001 1437Z CQ "O" but unstable frq 136.3 OH1BS 4-Feb-2001 1341Z cq..cq.. 137.7 IK1ODO 4-Feb-2001 1322Z in QRSS QSO 136.4 DJ9IE 4-Feb-2001 1256Z 136.7 OH1BS 4-Feb-2001 1144Z 579, clg OM2TW 137.7 OH1TN 4-Feb-2001 1133Z QRSS from KP11OO 136.3 PA0BWL 4-Feb-2001 1132Z clg 136.6 GW4HXO 4-Feb-2001 1128Z in qso f6cni both gd cpi 136.5 ON6ND 4-Feb-2001 1105Z ?? big noise hr... 136.6 SM6PXJ 4-Feb-2001 1058Z wkd PA0SE 136.6 HA6PC 4-Feb-2001 1058Z CQ 136.4 SM6PXJ 4-Feb-2001 1033Z with DJ9IE 137.7 IK1ODO 4-Feb-2001 0903Z "O" 137.7 IK5ZPV 4-Feb-2001 0903Z "O" audible 136.7 G6RO 3-Feb-2001 1918Z in qso w gw4alg 136.5 DF0WD 3-Feb-2001 1859Z 137.6 IK5ZPV 3-Feb-2001 1809Z 579 jn53>jn65tw 137.7 YO2IS 3-Feb-2001 0633Z Just worked him on QRSS... G3NYK de GB7MRS 4-Feb-2001 2146Z > Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28411 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 21:23:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 21:23:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 3931 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 21:26:04 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 21:26:04 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PWXK-0001fj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 21:17:30 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PWXJ-0001fe-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 21:17:29 +0000 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.2/8.11.2/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id f14LHFd28832 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 21:17:15 GMT X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <2001020421304068199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 21:30:40 GMT To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: LF: E-mail Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit The e-mail at with my new service provider (ukonline) seems to be falling apart. I may have lost some postings on the reflector. If you have e-mailed me and not had a reply please e-mail me at this address. -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11248 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 21:10:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 21:10:45 -0000 Received: (qmail 9253 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 21:14:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 21:14:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PWOz-0001bm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 21:08:53 +0000 Received: from [212.159.14.227] (helo=warrior-outbound.servers.plus.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PWOx-0001ba-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 21:08:52 +0000 Received: (qmail 25712 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 21:08:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO picks) (212.159.57.62) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 21:08:05 -0000 Message-ID: <007a01c08eee$a8418240$ec259fd4@f9.net.uk> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: VE1ZJs reception reports. Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 21:08:43 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all. John's images are at http://www.wireless.org.uk/newspic44.htm it takes a while to load cos there are 7 of them.. 73. Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1089 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 20:35:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 20:35:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 12134 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 20:38:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 20:38:50 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PVnV-0001SD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 20:30:09 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PVnU-0001S8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 20:30:08 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.102.221]) by jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 16:29:53 -0400 Message-ID: <3A7E0265.DC2F4F0@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 20:31:18 -0500 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: G3AQC reception Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Laurie received here "M" copy 2002 Z sun evening . Sun still up 30 sec dots 73 de john VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27089 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 20:03:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 20:03:53 -0000 Received: (qmail 8847 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 20:07:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 20:07:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PVMm-0001JQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 20:02:32 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PVMl-0001JL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 20:02:31 +0000 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.51.80]) by jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 16:02:07 -0400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A7DFBE4.D40DE74C@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 20:03:32 -0500 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re. Beacon tests References: <000401c08ee2$b908f920$3e99883e@lvm> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Laurie i sent pictures to Dave@picks. . Starting to look now 73 de John VE1ZJ > Glad to see you back John and thanks for the report, looks like things > better to Canada last night.Shows how dependant we are on propagation. I > will transmit > DFCW again (hopefully not so drifty) from 20:00 on 135.922 as usual. 73 s > Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24190 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 20:01:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 20:01:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 5025 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 20:04:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 20:04:56 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PVKM-0001Hy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 20:00:02 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PVKL-0001HW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 20:00:02 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.51.80]) by jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 15:59:22 -0400 Message-ID: <3A7DFB3F.7FE325B4@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 20:00:47 -0500 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: lf tests Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all I will be looking with 30 sec dots from 2000Z til 0400 tonight Same freq as last night but will also look 1 Hz lower . 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3911 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 19:42:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 19:42:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 27057 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 19:46:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 19:46:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PV0l-00019Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 19:39:47 +0000 Received: from mail4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.211]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PV0k-00019L-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 19:39:46 +0000 Received: from modem-62.denethor.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.153.62] helo=lvm) by mail4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14PV0W-0007jr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 19:39:32 +0000 Message-ID: <000401c08ee2$b908f920$3e99883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: Re. Beacon tests Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 19:17:25 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Glad to see you back John and thanks for the report, looks like things better to Canada last night.Shows how dependant we are on propagation. I will transmit DFCW again (hopefully not so drifty) from 20:00 on 135.922 as usual. 73 s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8495 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 19:23:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 19:23:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 17014 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 19:17:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 19:17:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PUZf-00012Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 19:11:47 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.40.143]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PUZd-00012U-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 19:11:46 +0000 Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-123-62.bellatlantic.net [151.200.123.62]) by smtp-out1.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id OAA27609; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 14:10:14 -0500 (EST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A7DA938.41FC437F@bellatlantic.net> Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 14:10:48 -0500 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, "John Davis KD4IDY" Cc: "lf-amrad" Subject: Re: LF: PLL inaccuracy References: <2f.fe468b0.279be61d@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: WarmSpgs@aol.com wrote: > There does not have to be a frequency error at all for a phase comparator to > output a correction voltage...only for the oscillator being stabilized to > have a _tendency_ to drift away from the desired frequency, which is > inevitable. Hence, once lock has been achieved, a more-or-less constant > phase difference is maintained by the loop. This is not frequency error. I am not quite convinced yet... :-) > Time is the difference between frequency and phase, as in Alan's analysis. A > _frequency_ difference between two signals means the _phase_ relationship is > changing continuously in the same direction over the course of time. If f1 > > f2, the phase of f1 is constantly advancing relative relative to that of f2, > for just as long as the frequency difference is allowed to exist. This is > the condition when lock has not been achieved. Allow me to quote from the book "Phase Locked Loops, Principle and Practice", McGraw Hill 1996, by P.V. Brennan University College, London. Page 22: "...As far as the control loop is concerned, it should be noted that frequency dividers act equally as phase dividers, so that a factor of 1/N must be allowed for in the loop equations". > When a PLL achieves lock, phase of the controlled oscillator is NOT allowed to > move continuously in either direction. There may be short-term variations > around the center, but no continuing trend (thus, phase lock). Without > continuous phase change in a given direction, there is no frequency error > relative to the reference. The remaining short term variations around the > desired phase relationship are simply that: phase noise, or jitter. Now from the same book, page 128, where the author describes a PLL that includes a divider-by-1000 between the VCO and the phase comparator: "...the implementation of figure 8.6 has a resolution of 0.35 degrees. Although this may sound impressive, it should be realized that the resolution referred to the VCO is worsened by a factor of N, to 350 degrees for example, with a divider ratio of 1000." 73 Andre' N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19133 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 17:54:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 17:54:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 5108 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 17:57:14 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 17:57:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PTKd-0000cD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 17:52:11 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from mozart.unetsul.com.br ([200.247.254.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PTKZ-0000c8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 17:52:08 +0000 Received: from mailman.endymion.com (mozart.unetsul.com.br [200.247.254.3]) by mozart.unetsul.com.br (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA25610 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 15:52:50 -0200 (EDT) (envelope-from py2pll@py.qsl.br) Message-ID: <200102041752.PAA25610@mozart.unetsul.com.br> To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: py2pll@py.qsl.br Subject: LF: 1 turn loop X other antennas Date: Sun, 4 Feb 101 17:52:50 +0000 X-Mailer: Endymion MailMan v2.0 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hi all ... I took some readings using 3 different antennas and there's the results: # Antenna 1 - 1 turn copper loop, 12mm rod, octagon, 4.8m perimeter (1.2m "diameter") # Antenna 2 - 80 m inverted vee, apex at 30m high # Antenna 3 - ferrite loop, 10mm dia, 7.5 inch long, all extension covered by 26# magnetic wire, varactor tuned and MPF102 push-pull preamp. I'm trying to verify if I can use a single turn tuned copper loop instead the "n" turns thinner wire ones. Rejloop1, Rejloop3 and Antenna Optimizer gave more or less the same efficiency X tuning C X impedance for all loops. The 1 turn unit have a broadband step-up ferrite transformer (25 X 1/2 turn ratio) using some 1800 ui core, those box shaped built to remove EMI from a 25 way computer flat cable (1.5 inch long X 1.5 inch wide X 1/2 inch high). So this xformer is able to handle 0,0XX ohm on its primary (a 1 inch wide copper stripe). I need to make some measurements on it to be shure about this. A local NDB was used as signal source, on 260Khz. The "dBmV" reading is relative audio out from my receiver (a ITT Mackay Marine 3026). The dBu readings came from the S Meter. For audio readings, AGC = off. So: # Loop + xformer, tuned (like the isoloop) = 0dBmV (18dBu) # Loop + xformer, un-tuned, capacitor shorted = -7dBmV (12dBu) # Loop w/o xformer, feedpoint un-tuned straight to 50 ohm feeder = - 22dBmV (5dBu) # Loop w/o xformer, feedpoint tuned straight to 50 ohm feeder = -8dBmV (14dBu) # 80m dipole = +2dBmV (20dBu) # Ferrite rod = (+15dBu) I'll repeat those readings on a 4m diameter aluminum loop, 17mm tube, as soon as I finish my remotely controlled capacitor decade circuit (1nf steps from 0 to 350nf). Seems that the 1 turn solution will perform well - and the best part - no pre-amp, but the decade C :o( 73 Marcus, PY2PLL(Base) / PY3CRX (Mobile) GG66rf - S. B. do Campo - SP hampage => http://py.qsl.br e-mail => py2pll@py.qsl.br Active from DC to 24GHz From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6308 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 17:27:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 17:27:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 10893 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 17:21:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 17:21:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PSk4-0000Tt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 17:14:24 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.62]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PSk1-0000To-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 17:14:21 +0000 Received: from 66-44-92-24.s532.tnt6.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.92.24] helo=nan-and-sandy) by smtp03.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.16 #5) id 14PSji-0004Wf-00 ; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 12:14:03 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 12:18:50 -0500 Message-ID: <01C08EA4.A1F14BE0.esanders@erols.com> From: "Nan and Sandy Sanders" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: lf@amrad.org Subject: LF: 04Feb reception Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 12:18:41 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: If the imagination filter was not turned up too high (first try at DFCW hi hi). 04:17 GMT to 04:40 GMT copied "QC G3". Between 07:50 and 08:40 copied "G A QC" with QC being about the strongest of the night. Signals were a lot better last night. When I get more time I will see if I can pull any more out. Sandy WB5MMB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3799 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 16:15:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 16:15:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 29830 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 16:18:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 16:18:06 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PRmG-0000Dg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 16:12:36 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.89]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PRmF-0000Db-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 16:12:35 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14PRm0-000BEo-0V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 16:12:21 +0000 Message-ID: <3A7D7FE0.A8B915C3@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 16:14:24 +0000 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: CW Activity Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All I was very pleased to hear all the CW activity these past two mornings. Yesterday morning I used my loop antenna to work G8RW; G4HYU; G3XDV; and G6NB. (In the evening I got the 12 m vertical erected and worked G6RO and F6CNI.) This morning (Sunday), I was only listening from time to time, but I did hear G8RW; G3OLB; GW4HXO; F6CNI; DJ9IE; G3XDV; PA0SE; SM6PXJ; ON6ND; PA0BWL; and G6RO. I even heard Wil PA0BWL working a 'run' in what seemed to be a jolly good pile-up! BTW, last week I wrote a letter to several active and 'dormant' UK LF operators, enclosing a copy of Dick's plea for more CW on Saturday and Sunday mornings. I presume that this prompted Andy G4HYU to come on yesterday. Also, Stuart GW3XYW reports that he's still interested in 136, but rather busy with EME and satellites! Dave MM0ALM reports that he's still as keen as ever, but a busy life at work is reducing his time in the shack. Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5592 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 15:25:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 15:25:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 15836 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 15:19:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 15:19:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PQrr-0008TQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 15:14:19 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jaws.cisco.com ([198.135.0.150] helo=cisco.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PQrq-0008TI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 15:14:18 +0000 Received: from virgin.net (stbryant-isdn-home.cisco.com [10.49.137.202]) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id PAA21847 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 15:13:32 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A7D7183.A68E6D77@virgin.net> Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 15:13:07 +0000 From: "Stewart Bryant" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: TR QSO TIME References: <000001c08d15$279241a0$2b0e883e@default> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > > I would agree that a qso on slow morse could take a few hours during a > session and that would be acceptable but to call back next day with a reply > is stupid and not credible. I can think of a number of military systems that operate on this basis. Are you suggesting that the stations are not in communication? > The next suggestion by some will be a week long qso!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is > hardly state of the art communications and puts the clock back, dont suppose > it ever took anyone 24 hours plus to have a two way contact even druing the > pioneering days!!!!!!!! Depends what you mean by pioneering. I would have thought that this low power LF work was pioneering. Stewart G3YSX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5999 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 15:15:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 15:15:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 12865 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 15:18:31 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 15:18:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PQpK-0008TD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 15:11:42 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ab6qv.lm1.net ([209.221.203.114] helo=gw.ab6qv.ampr.org) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PQpI-0008T8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 15:11:40 +0000 X-BBS-Msg-Type: P Date: Sun, 04 Feb 01 07:10:10 -0800 Message-ID: <8179@gw.ab6qv.ampr.org> From: yo2is@gw.ab6qv.ampr.org To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: First OM <-> YO...on 137 KHz Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit From: YO2IS Hello from KN05ps, am glad to report ( Rich, OM2TW already did it in the DX-Clusters ) that the first ever VLF DX QSO was made from Romania, on the 3 feb at 06.30 when we ended the QRSS contact started at 06.00 with OM2TW on 137.7 KHz. Was using the GRAM50 on my scrap 486DX50 with the mute on ! not listening the band only looking to the screen!. Got alerted by Rich on the DX-Cluster that my signal was audible, put in hurry my headphones and was pleased to hear his normal CW with about 449 in the strong mains QRM. Am realy happy that my three years of learning, building and dreaming LF was not in vain. Thanks to all who did advice and help me, especialy to GW4ALG, G3YXM, ON7YD and OM2TW. TKS also for the stimulative 7S6SAQ and 7S6SAJ special VLF events cross band QSO's and their nice QSL cards. My obsolete rig is all home made: TX all tubes, differential VXO ECC82, EF184, EL84, 2 x GU50 (LS50) paralel, driving a Push-Pull 2 x GU13 (813) GW4ALG design in class C, running 360 mA at 1600 V. Antenna a 41 m sloping wire tunned with a 3.88 mH inductance ( three serial coils and a vario ) and a 50 / 130 Ohm matching trafo alowing a very good SWR, curent abt. 2A. Take-off 320 to 045 deg. azimut. RX 137 KHz / 14 MHz XTAL converter with a ua796 folowed by a 11 tubes double super, 500Hz mech. filter and L/C audio filter. Receiving antenna 2m diameter 10 turn loop, rotated for minimal mains noise, at abt 360 azim (the wideband noise is centered on 136 KHz and can be lowered by 30 dB, the "cleaner spot" begins at 137.5 KHz) and FET preamp with 10m coax cable down to the shack. The antenna is under the roof, at about 15m from three 10KV/380V power transformers and several in/out underground cables. Grounding is the city central-heating network. The rig is not ready "on the desk", its composed from 9 parts which have to be assambled / disassambled for every VLF tentative !. Am not an "exclusive LF" ham (have meet OM2TW on 2m and 160m either!) and here is still a lot of work to detect/eliminate the mains noise problems to be able to think about a future decent DX-VLF trafic from this downtown location. 73 & DX, Szigy. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1633 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 14:39:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 14:39:40 -0000 Received: (qmail 8347 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 14:42:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 14:42:33 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PQGv-0008HC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 14:36:09 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PQGu-0008H7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 14:36:08 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.90.6]) by jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 10:35:50 -0400 Message-ID: <3A7DAF6A.1D7A7D50@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 14:37:15 -0500 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: lf tests Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all , Last night I finally got my receiving system operational in Sydney . There were no 60 Hz problems . I started looking at 2310Z Immediately there were 3 identfiable signals . i was using ARGO with 30 sec dots . 3 stations all using different signal formats were visible . They were G3AQC G3YXM G3XTZ I think there was a fourth station Visible but I could not get a call. There were all strong. They were still in when I had to leave at 0008 Z When I came back at 0435 AQC and XTZ were still visible until 0530 when I went to bed . ALL stations were clustered between 135.920 and 135.922. The fourth signal was just above XTZ . Pictures will follow 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10522 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 14:25:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 14:25:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 2136 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 14:19:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 14:19:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PPtd-0008Ck-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 14:12:05 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mta09-acc.tin.it ([212.216.176.40] helo=fep09-svc.tin.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PPtb-0008Cf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 14:12:04 +0000 Received: from mailsrv.dii.unisi.it ([212.171.197.210]) by fep09-svc.tin.it (InterMail vM.4.01.03.13 201-229-121-113) with ESMTP id <20010204141122.HPIO27359.fep09-svc.tin.it@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 15:11:22 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A7D61ED.DACB2231@mailsrv.dii.unisi.it> Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 15:06:37 +0100 From: "valerio gabbani" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.61 [en] (X11; I; Linux 2.2.12-20 i586) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: QRZ IK1ODO? References: <4.1.20010204134054.00bf26e0@pop.tiscalinet.it> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Marco Bruno wrote: > Who was the station answering my call on 137.740 at 12z? > The signal drifted in frequency quicly, and become unreadable. > There is a strong spurious signal 10 Hz higher. > > 73 - IK1ODO > > Marco Bruno - IK1ODO > spin.elec@tiscalinet.it > > SPIN Electronics - www.spin-it.com it was OH1TN received M in JN53KX '73 Valerio (IK5ZPV) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4745 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 13:09:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 13:09:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 29869 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 13:03:49 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 13:03:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14POcp-0007oi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 12:50:39 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp1.libero.it ([193.70.192.51]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14POcm-0007ob-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 12:50:36 +0000 Received: from ath650 (151.20.78.144) by smtp1.libero.it (5.5.015.5) id 3A5C4F9100F4DD71 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 13:49:52 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 13:49:52 +0100 (added by postmaster@iol.it) Message-ID: <4.1.20010204134054.00bf26e0@pop.tiscalinet.it> X-Sender: IK1ODO@imapmail.libero.it (Non verificato) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Versione 4.1 Data: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 13:49:49 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Marco Bruno" Subject: LF: QRZ IK1ODO? In-reply-to: <16.85e26c1.27ae8f3e@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Who was the station answering my call on 137.740 at 12z? The signal drifted in frequency quicly, and become unreadable. There is a strong spurious signal 10 Hz higher. 73 - IK1ODO Marco Bruno - IK1ODO spin.elec@tiscalinet.it SPIN Electronics - www.spin-it.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12414 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 11:03:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 11:03:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 1628 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 11:06:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 11:06:42 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PMqj-0007J6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 10:56:53 +0000 Received: from imo-r16.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.70]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PMqi-0007J1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 10:56:52 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-r16.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.16.85e26c1 (9559) for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 05:55:58 -0500 (EST) From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <16.85e26c1.27ae8f3e@aol.com> Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 05:55:58 EST Subject: Re: LF: Organization: NL9222 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 105 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 2/3/01 3:01:55 PM GMT Standard Time, nl9222@wanadoo.nl writes: << I inquired once for the litlle i did (1st swl: PA - VA) as just an swl but never ever got any response to it, not even a denial What a way to encourage newcomers to 136k, perhaps swl's are more useless on this band than i thought! >> Ko, I have reported your reception of VA3LK to the RSGB SWL columnist who was very interested in your achievement. This will be reported in the next edition. I believe this set a new distance record for the band, albeit for a short time. Well done. Re confirmation. Sorry to say your experiences are not unique, but "a picture speaks a thousand words"......well a callsign anyway. Vy 73 David G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13930 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 10:29:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 10:29:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 728 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 10:32:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 10:32:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PMGe-00076N-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 10:19:36 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.176] (helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PMGd-00076I-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 10:19:35 +0000 Received: from [62.7.22.194] (helo=presario1920) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14PMGO-0003Cn-00; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 10:19:20 +0000 From: "John W Gould" To: "Ko Versteeg" , rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: "Andre' Kesteloot" Subject: LF: RE: Organization: NL9222 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 10:20:54 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-reply-to: <200102031456.PAA23427@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Ko, my aplogies for not replying earlier to your enquiry that Andre' had separately brought to my attention. I have just looked at the rules that RSGB, DARC and AMRAD agreed. The key paragraphs are: 1. An Award will be issued to recognise the first European amateur or SWL to receive either a USA or a Canadian amateur station operating at 136 kHz once the band is allocated to the Amateur Radio Service in either country. 2. An Award will also be issued for the first USA station and another Award for the first Canadian station to receive a European amateur 136 kHz station. We purposely spelt out in para 1 that it was open to SWLs, and intended that in the second paragraph the station could either be licenced to transmit or be a SWL station. The only question that needs answering is whether you received the VA station prior to anyone else in EU. I didn't think that the intent of the award was to issue an award to the first licenced amateur and another award to the first SWL. There has been some experimentation and operating done by amateurs whether or not they are licenced. In my mind there is no distinction as there is plenty to be done whether or not one is able to transmit. I would be happy to discuss your claim via direct e-mail, rather than via the list-server. We will need the date and time that your received the station. We can then check whether this was indeed the first occurrence in EU. Apologies and 73 John G3WKL RSGB HF Committee -----Original Message----- From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf Of Ko Versteeg Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 14:56 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Organization: NL9222 Dexter, Laurie.. Congratulations on making it across ( more than once ) I hope it will be rewarded properly this time.. I inquired once for the litlle i did (1st swl: PA - VA) as just an swl but never ever got any response to it, not even a denial What a way to encourage newcomers to 136k, perhaps swl's are more useless on this band than i thought! Good luck, Ko Versteeg, NL9222. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17372 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 09:57:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 09:57:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 25813 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 09:59:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 09:59:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PLrR-0006ww-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 09:53:33 +0000 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PLrQ-0006wr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 09:53:32 +0000 Received: from [212.1.153.24] (helo=g4jnt) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PLg8-0008Cz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 09:41:52 +0000 Message-ID: <002d01c08e8f$dfdacd60$189901d4@g4jnt> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Signals around 135.923 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 09:49:38 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: So 'JNT was visible and understandable then :-) I was finishing off the DFCW software for the DDS module after seeing Laurie's signal in real time, and modding it so gap length could be programmed separately to dot length. This was the first time I'd seen a proper DFCW transmission and hadn't known what to make the software do in a previous version. The aim with a signalling system like this is to maximise transmission time and duty cycle. No information is transmitted when the transmitter is off, so inter symbol gaps need to be just short enough to minimise specctral spreading at the frequency shift point. For these transmissions an inter symbol gap of 5 seconds, ie. 8% of the symbol length is used. Letter gaps remain at one dot length, word gaps at two. For looking back at the file, Larry, That transmission was from 1930z to 2256z DFCW at 0.2Hz shift using 60s dot periods with occasional breaks as software changes to modify the format were introduced. Then from 0645z until (still transmitting at 0950z) using 0.05HZ shift DFCW again 60s dots. But rain makes makes the antenna less efficient so I'm 3dB down on the earlier transmission. For anyone with a 'JNT DDS module (about 60 have been sold since the RadCom article appeared) the S/W is available, just ask. Andy G4JNT -----Original Message----- From: MarkusVester@aol.com To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 04 February 2001 02:00 Subject: LF: Signals around 135.923 >Hi group, > >thats a nice image on Argo tonight at 22:45, with seven closely cuddled >stations: > > 925.0 weak carrier > 924.15 ZP(V)? 10s/dot (good signal, but too fast for 21mHz) > 923.4 G3XDV 10s/dot > 923.0 M0BMU > 922.5 G3XTZ > 922.3 G3YXM > 921.7/.8 G3AQC DFCW (slightly unstable) > 921.4/.6 G4JNT DFCW (0.4 Hz shift earlier, then changed to 0.2) > >The weak calibration dots at the right side of the image are 1 Hz lines from >HBG after switching to 75 kHz. > >73s de Markus, DF6NM > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20662 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 09:06:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 09:06:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 9295 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 09:00:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 09:00:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PKx5-0006eH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 08:55:19 +0000 Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.91]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PKx4-0006eC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 08:55:18 +0000 Received: from rgcomms.demon.co.uk ([193.237.77.63] helo=G) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14PKwo-0006iH-0X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 08:55:03 +0000 From: "Graham Phillips" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Signals around 135.923 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 08:54:59 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal In-reply-to: <3c.6fc11e2.27ae7093@aol.com> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Just in time Marcus .... was about to rip my signal generator apart !!! (Hi) Many thanks for the reports, 73 de Graham B. Phillips. G3XTZ. g3xtz@rgcomms.demon.co.uk From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19845 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 09:05:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 09:05:02 -0000 Received: (qmail 23013 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 08:59:04 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 08:59:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PKvy-0006e7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 08:54:10 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail-2.tiscalinet.it ([195.130.225.148] helo=mail.tiscalinet.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PKvx-0006e0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 08:54:09 +0000 Received: from ath650 (62.10.38.51) by mail.tiscalinet.it (5.5.015.5) id 3A5B51DE00548EE4 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 09:13:41 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 09:13:41 +0100 (added by postmaster@mail.tiscalinet.it) Message-ID: <4.1.20010204095303.0184c380@pop.tiscalinet.it> X-Sender: spin.elec@pop.tiscalinet.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Versione 4.1 Data: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 09:53:32 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: Re: LF: Argo beta 1 build 119 In-reply-to: <3A7C7BC3.DFAA8151@usa.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In 10.50 04/02/01 , hai scritto: >Hello all, > > I have just uploaded Argo beta 1 build 119. > GREAT ! Thank you Alberto ! 73 - Marco IK1ODO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29014 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 08:48:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 08:48:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 12285 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 08:50:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 08:50:54 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PKnk-0006d9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 08:45:40 +0000 Received: from imo-r06.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PKnj-0006d4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 08:45:39 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-r06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.3c.6fc11e2 (3846) for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 03:45:07 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <3c.6fc11e2.27ae7093@aol.com> Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 03:45:07 EST Subject: Re: LF: Signals around 135.923 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 70 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi group, sri, when preparing "135K92ST.jpg", I got the frequency annotations wrong by 1 Hz. Should be 135.922 to 924, not 921 to 923. Good luck to all Markus, DF6NM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5308 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 07:09:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 07:09:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 12705 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 07:12:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 07:12:43 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PJFh-0006AW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 07:06:25 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.sci.fi ([195.197.53.226] helo=vasta.saunalahti.fi) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PJFg-0006AR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 07:06:24 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from default (CMXXII.tdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.81.122]) by vasta.saunalahti.fi (8.10.1/8.10.1) with SMTP id f1476n827673 for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 09:06:49 +0200 (EET) Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20010204090629.00826d50@pop.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: vaiski1@pop.saunalahti.fi X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sun, 04 Feb 2001 09:06:29 +0200 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: Re: LF: Beacon signals 4 Feb 2001 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Signal report on Sunday morning, 4 Feb 2001: UTC....G3AQC....?.....SVX 0400.....+2.....+0........=Fs in dB(uV/m) 0410.....+3.....+0 0420.....+3.....+0 0430.....+3.....+1 0440.....+3.....+1 0500.....+3.....+1 0510.....+2.....+1 0520.....+2.....+0 0530.....+2.....-0.....+8 0540.....+2.....-0 0550.....+2.....-0.....+8 0600.....-1.....-3 0610.....-3....<-5....+14 0620....<-6....<-5....+16 --------------------------------------------- Comments: The weaker ham was not identified, monitoring aurally using R&S ESH2. Beat was aurally measured: 0.49 to 0.63 Hz. Signal levels admirably stable until 06 UTC. --------------------------------------------- Noise floor: 136.0 = -5, (in ESH2 200Hz) .............136.5 = -8 dB(uV/m) (Ham beacon Fs read off on 136.0 kHz) --------------------------------------------- |---------------------------------------------------------| | V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX ¤ 60N33.6 024E58.7 KP20LN74 | | P.O.Box 50 ¤ Telephone: +358-9-4173965 | | FIN-05401, Jokela ¤ Telefax: +358-9-4173961 | | Finland ¤ email: vaiski@dlc.fi | |---------------------------------------------------------| From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8756 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 03:46:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 03:46:06 -0000 Received: (qmail 11866 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 03:49:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 03:49:45 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PG24-000581-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 03:40:08 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.60]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PG23-00057w-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 03:40:07 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from 66-44-60-222.s222.tnt4.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.60.222] helo=nan-and-sandy) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.16 #5) id 14PG1p-0007Ox-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 22:39:53 -0500 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 22:44:38 -0500 Message-ID: <01C08E32.E3755380.esanders@erols.com> From: "Nan and Sandy Sanders" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Organization: NL9222 Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 22:44:29 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Ko, dont give up yet. I am sure your reports are useful even if not acknowledged. I started as an SWL long before I became a ham and still like to listen more than talk. Also the more stations receiving the better chance we will have of figuring out how skywave works down here. Sandy WB5MMB ---------- From: Ko Versteeg[SMTP:nl9222@wanadoo.nl] Reply To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sent: Saturday, February 03, 2001 9:56 AM To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Organization: NL9222 Dexter, Laurie.. Congratulations on making it across ( more than once ) I hope it will be rewarded properly this time.. I inquired once for the litlle i did (1st swl: PA - VA) as just an swl but never ever got any response to it, not even a denial What a way to encourage newcomers to 136k, perhaps swl's are more useless on this band than i thought! Good luck, Ko Versteeg, NL9222. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26424 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 02:51:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 02:51:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 8228 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 02:45:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 02:45:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PF4s-0004qI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 02:38:58 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from m11.boston.juno.com ([64.136.24.74]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PF4q-0004qD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 02:38:56 +0000 Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"yokUgcxCbtTP7XLrpefewNEdgvFSW6SxZym95x87l6O3qef0aYCA9Q=="> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (from riese-k3djc@juno.com) by m11.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id FVEB4JHP; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 21:38:33 EST To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 10:36:53 -0500 Subject: Re: LF: Re. G3AQC/USA etc. Message-ID: <20010203.103711.-611459.1.riese-k3djc@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-7,9-27 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "BOB RIESE" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Ahh but dont forget 177 has some sky wave it may be time for looking for some NDBs from the states Who but the Shadow Knows Bob : } On Sat, 03 Feb 2001 19:00:06 -0500 Dexter McIntyre w4dex writes: >LAWRENCE MAYHEAD wrote: >> >>I would just like to thank all those who contributed, Rik for QRS, >>Alberto for ARGO, Alan for propagation research,and all those who >>increased the sum of knowledge via this reflector. Its been fun. >Laurie. > >I'll second that Laurie! The fun will continue! Want to try for a >cross band QSO? I could transmit to you with my 177.777 KHz 1 watt >beacon! That would only be mabye 40 db down from what I receive your >signal on 135 KHz. Remember when you said the chances of my seeing >your >signal was a long shot? Would you call this an extremely loooong >shot? >:) > >Dexter > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15245 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 01:48:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 01:48:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 25670 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 01:51:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 01:51:25 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PEB9-0004ca-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 01:41:23 +0000 Received: from imo-d02.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PEB5-0004cV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 01:41:20 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from MarkusVester@aol.com by imo-d02.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.8b.1ef5de3 (4447) for ; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 20:40:27 -0500 (EST) From: MarkusVester@aol.com Message-ID: <8b.1ef5de3.27ae0d0b@aol.com> Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 20:40:27 EST Subject: LF: Signals around 135.923 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------020102000406030206090406" X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 70 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------020102000406030206090406 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hi group, thats a nice image on Argo tonight at 22:45, with seven closely cuddled stations: 925.0 weak carrier 924.15 ZP(V)? 10s/dot (good signal, but too fast for 21mHz) 923.4 G3XDV 10s/dot 923.0 M0BMU 922.5 G3XTZ 922.3 G3YXM 921.7/.8 G3AQC DFCW (slightly unstable) 921.4/.6 G4JNT DFCW (0.4 Hz shift earlier, then changed to 0.2) The weak calibration dots at the right side of the image are 1 Hz lines from HBG after switching to 75 kHz. 73s de Markus, DF6NM --------------020102000406030206090406 Content-Type: image/jpeg; name="135K92ST.JPG" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="135K92ST.JPG" /9j/4AAQSkZJRgABAQEBLAEsAAD/2wBDAAoHBwgHBgoICAgLCgoLDhgQDg0NDh0VFhEYIx8l JCIfIiEmKzcvJik0KSEiMEExNDk7Pj4+JS5ESUM8SDc9Pjv/2wBDAQoLCw4NDhwQEBw7KCIo Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozs7Ozv/wAAR CACQASkDASIAAhEBAxEB/8QAHwAAAQUBAQEBAQEAAAAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtRAA AgEDAwIEAwUFBAQAAAF9AQIDAAQRBRIhMUEGE1FhByJxFDKBkaEII0KxwRVS0fAkM2JyggkK FhcYGRolJicoKSo0NTY3ODk6Q0RFRkdISUpTVFVWV1hZWmNkZWZnaGlqc3R1dnd4eXqDhIWG h4iJipKTlJWWl5iZmqKjpKWmp6ipqrKztLW2t7i5usLDxMXGx8jJytLT1NXW19jZ2uHi4+Tl 5ufo6erx8vP09fb3+Pn6/8QAHwEAAwEBAQEBAQEBAQAAAAAAAAECAwQFBgcICQoL/8QAtREA AgECBAQDBAcFBAQAAQJ3AAECAxEEBSExBhJBUQdhcRMiMoEIFEKRobHBCSMzUvAVYnLRChYk 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M5YKc9fSnTTmfGI0QDsgwKjHzOOTiob2SYyQM42lT82/IOanj1G4DZM7KemfbvTY7sJDs8qP nI3Fcmq6sQV9R0FVzW2Yiy97LNG6O3y46ZwKgLfJHuHp2pg5BySaN2Afepc29WFixJdzTq0c krGPsDRFdTQLsilKqvYd80yCfyHMgRXJz8rDikeQyFnC7STnHpVc3W+oEk9xJMu0sdvBGTVc DDYIqZLjypCSiNxxnkUj3GZhL5Sj2HQUpNPVsCP5SAAMUcgkg8gVOLwbceTEf+A8D6Uv2sEE eUhB6fLz+NFovqGpUdjsUe/rUFWbiVZGB2BTnt0qtXDiN9y4hRRRXMUf/9k= --------------020102000406030206090406-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23610 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 00:06:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 00:06:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 17030 invoked from network); 4 Feb 2001 00:09:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 4 Feb 2001 00:09:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PCbu-000448-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 00:00:54 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.48]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PCbt-000443-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 04 Feb 2001 00:00:53 +0000 Received: from att.net ([12.77.61.115]) by mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.10 201-229-121-110) with ESMTP id <20010204000006.EWLR28450.mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net@att.net> for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 00:00:06 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A7C9B86.DBC49E22@att.net> Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 19:00:06 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre w4dex" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re. G3AQC/USA etc. References: <000101c08e36$a5dbd680$607a883e@lvm> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: LAWRENCE MAYHEAD wrote: > >I would just like to thank all those who contributed, Rik for QRS, >Alberto for ARGO, Alan for propagation research,and all those who >increased the sum of knowledge via this reflector. Its been fun. Laurie. I'll second that Laurie! The fun will continue! Want to try for a cross band QSO? I could transmit to you with my 177.777 KHz 1 watt beacon! That would only be mabye 40 db down from what I receive your signal on 135 KHz. Remember when you said the chances of my seeing your signal was a long shot? Would you call this an extremely loooong shot? :) Dexter From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23995 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 23:33:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 23:33:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 22456 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 23:36:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 23:36:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PC85-0003va-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 23:30:05 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.48]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PC83-0003v8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 23:30:04 +0000 Received: from att.net ([12.77.61.115]) by mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.10 201-229-121-110) with ESMTP id <20010203232944.EQMU28450.mtiwmhc23.worldnet.att.net@att.net>; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 23:29:44 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A7C9468.37970A3@att.net> Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 18:29:44 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre w4dex" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: lf@amrad.org Subject: Re: LF: G3AQC copied in Virginia References: <01C08DFD.3A87E240.esanders@erols.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Sandy, That's great! I was beginning to feel like there was some question about the authenticity of my reports. Your report should remove any doubts. To do this with a 50 cm E field probe should encourage many others to listen. I was also surprised to find what I thought would be my noisiest antenna to work the best. I tried large multiturn tuned balanced loops, a large shielded unbalanced loop, a tuned 200 foot per side square horizontal loop and a beverage. Then I find my 160 meter dipole fed as a T, right above the house, close to many noise sources, receives 136 KHz the best! The only noise source I have noticed is from a light dimmer. Now that's noise! 73, Dexter Nan and Sandy Sanders wrote: > > From about 0030 GMT to about 0230 GMT and again from about 0330 GMT to > about 0600 GMT I was able to copy G3AQC . I also copied dashes from M0BMU ( > who was a bit stronger in the first time period but only lasted about half > the second period ). There was also a very faint broken line that could > have been G3XTZ but was never strong enough to copy any letters. I used > ARGO build 113 in 30s dot mode agc on. > I plan to download build 117 and give it a try tonight. > The most interesting thing I find about this reception is the receive > antenna is a 50 cm long E field probe mounted 50 cm above the flat metal > roof of a three story office building full of computers. It is able to hear > much better than all but 1 or 2 of the home stations in this area. > Sandy > WB5MMB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13300 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 23:10:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 23:10:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 20265 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 23:14:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 23:14:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PBmp-0003my-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 23:08:07 +0000 Received: from cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.173]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PBml-0003mt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 23:08:03 +0000 Received: from modem-96.arda.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.122.96] helo=lvm) by cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14PBmV-0002JD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 23:07:47 +0000 Message-ID: <000101c08e36$a5dbd680$607a883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: Re. G3AQC/USA etc. Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 23:11:27 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I would just like to thank all those who contributed, Rik for QRS, Alberto for ARGO, Alan for propagation research,and all those who increased the sum of knowledge via this reflector. Its been fun. Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24809 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 21:48:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 21:48:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 20189 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 21:51:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 21:51:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PAUr-0003QG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 21:45:29 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from d06lmsgate-3.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PAUq-0003QB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 21:45:28 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.147]) by d06lmsgate-3.uk.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id VAA215350 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 21:36:07 GMT Received: from usa.net (ss10.bld.socks.ibm.com [9.14.4.76]) by d06relay01.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v4.95) with ESMTP id VAA220352 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 21:44:41 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A7C7BC3.DFAA8151@usa.net> Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 22:44:35 +0100 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.76 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Argo beta 1 build 119 References: <3.0.1.16.20010203164017.3fd7a4a4@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello all, I have just uploaded Argo beta 1 build 119. These are the changes, from the readme file : Beta 1, build 119 (Feb. 3rd 2001) - 90s dots mode now enabled - Automatic save and restore of the settings - Improved panel to specify capture parameters - Facility for frequency calibration, both additive and multiplicative - Buffer allocation streamlined, saving more than 10 MB - More exact capturing interval (now independent from the vagaries of Windows) - The ticks spacing has been doubled in each mode, to avoid excessive crowding - A couple of bugs, that caused random hangs, now exterminated Please test it, and report any problem you may find, together with suggestions. TNX 73 Alberto I2PHD Download site : http://www.weaksignals.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16108 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 21:24:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 21:24:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 29333 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 21:18:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 21:18:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14P9xZ-0003HC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 21:11:05 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [194.200.20.13] (helo=mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14P9xY-0003H7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 21:11:04 +0000 Received: from usercb57.netscapeonline.co.uk ([62.125.148.225] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 14P9tK-00035Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 21:06:42 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A7C728C.806559BB@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 21:05:16 +0000 From: "gi3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb rsgb" Subject: LF: LF Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Comms check From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21174 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 21:20:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 21:20:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 6726 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 21:23:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 21:23:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PA2N-0003HT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 21:16:03 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net ([207.172.4.60]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14PA2M-0003HO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 21:16:03 +0000 Received: from 66-44-60-114.s114.tnt4.lnhva.md.dialup.rcn.com ([66.44.60.114] helo=nan-and-sandy) by smtp01.mrf.mail.rcn.net with smtp (Exim 3.16 #5) id 14PA25-00017q-00 ; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 16:15:45 -0500 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by localhost with Microsoft MAPI; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 16:20:31 -0500 Message-ID: <01C08DFD.3A87E240.esanders@erols.com> From: "Nan and Sandy Sanders" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: lf@amrad.org Subject: LF: G3AQC copied in Virginia Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 16:19:34 -0500 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet E-mail/MAPI - 8.0.0.4211 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: From about 0030 GMT to about 0230 GMT and again from about 0330 GMT to about 0600 GMT I was able to copy G3AQC . I also copied dashes from M0BMU ( who was a bit stronger in the first time period but only lasted about half the second period ). There was also a very faint broken line that could have been G3XTZ but was never strong enough to copy any letters. I used ARGO build 113 in 30s dot mode agc on. I plan to download build 117 and give it a try tonight. The most interesting thing I find about this reception is the receive antenna is a 50 cm long E field probe mounted 50 cm above the flat metal roof of a three story office building full of computers. It is able to hear much better than all but 1 or 2 of the home stations in this area. Sandy WB5MMB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15352 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 20:42:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 20:42:11 -0000 Received: (qmail 11387 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 20:45:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 20:45:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14P9Q9-00034B-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 20:36:33 +0000 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14P9Q8-000346-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 20:36:32 +0000 Received: from xtr743187 ([202.27.181.49]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz with SMTP id <20010203203603.NJMG14648724.mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz@xtr743187> for ; Sun, 4 Feb 2001 09:36:03 +1300 Message-ID: <00ae01c08e21$bfc07520$31b51bca@xtr743187> From: "Vernall" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000001c08d15$279241a0$2b0e883e@default> Subject: LF: Re: TR QSO TIME Date: Sun, 4 Feb 2001 09:40:42 +1300 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2919.6600 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mal, I think you are getting stuffed up between real-time modes and non-real-time modes. Contacts can be made in non-real-time modes, just like on this reflector site. I'm interested in LF DX communication by whatever means and over whatever times, and I not worried a jot that you would not make an "operator award" for such communication. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17349 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 19:12:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 19:12:35 -0000 Received: (qmail 29327 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 19:15:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 19:15:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14P7yM-0002fc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 19:03:46 +0000 Received: from cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.173]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14P7yK-0002fX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 19:03:44 +0000 Received: from modem-81.anglachel.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.112.81] helo=lvm) by cmailg3.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14P7y3-0004lR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 19:03:28 +0000 Message-ID: <001801c08e14$83e22560$5170883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: G3AQC complete call Q5 in USA Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 19:06:35 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik I am having difficulty in getteng 60 sec elements on DFCW (ok on QRSS) seems that sum of element and gap cannot exceed 70secs.This is a problem since I am sure DFCW is the solution for the T/A qso.Do you have any ideas perhaps it is my computer! Your help would be appreciated. 73s Laurie. -----Original Message----- From: Rik Strobbe To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: 03 February 2001 14:59 Subject: Re: LF: G3AQC complete call Q5 in USA Congrats to Laurie & Dexter. It seems that 60 sec./dot opens a complete new world of posibilities. Two things to do now : - try to get some (more) transmitting activity at the western side of the pond ('wake' the AMRAD licences ?) - find a 'mode' that optimizes the transmission speed, if possible usable with high efficiency (class D) PA's. 73, Rik ON7YD At 19:43 2/02/01 -0500, you wrote: >I just copied Laurie's complete call on 135.922 KHz. See it at: > >http://dmcintyre.home.att.net/G3AQC-2feb01.jpg > >http://dmcintyre.home.att.net/G3AQCb-2feb01.jpg > >MØBMU's dashes are at the top and looks like someone is now transmitting >between them near 135.9225 KHz. > >73, >Dexter, W4DEX > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7249 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 15:24:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 15:24:43 -0000 Received: (qmail 9790 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 15:18:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 15:18:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14P4LG-0001c4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 15:11:10 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from immtapop3.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.40.140]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14P4LE-0001by-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 15:11:08 +0000 Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-123-19.bellatlantic.net [151.200.123.19]) by immtapop3.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id KAA17690; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 10:10:49 -0500 (EST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A7C2009.28DC7209@bellatlantic.net> Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 10:13:13 -0500 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: G3AQC complete call Q5 in USA References: <3.0.1.16.20010203164017.3fd7a4a4@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik Strobbe wrote: > Congrats to Laurie & Dexter. > It seems that 60 sec./dot opens a complete new world of posibilities. > Two things to do now : > - try to get some (more) transmitting activity at the western side of the > pond ('wake' the AMRAD licences ?) [...] > 73, Rik ON7YD The problem is not with the AMRAD licenses, unfortunately. The FCC issued us (AMRAD) a "Part 5 license", i.e., an experimental license that only allows us to talk to one another, not as amateur operators, but as experimenters. (We all have the same call-sign WA2XTF). Hence we cannot communicate with other hams. Meanwhile, we have also petitioned the FCC for an allocation similar to the CEPT one which you enjoy in Europe (135-137 kHz). This has been languishing somewhere, but we are having regular contacts with the FCC and are hopeful that we will, one day, obtain that sliver. One of the problems we have encountered is that the FCC was also petitioned to allocate the whole 160-190 kHz band to the amateurs, something that is being opposed by some electric power companies,as those use that band to transmit signals over their own lines, for control and monitoring purposes. 73 Andre' N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16804 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 15:03:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 15:03:30 -0000 Received: (qmail 26223 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 14:57:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 14:57:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14P40Y-0001Rb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 14:49:46 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14P40W-0001RW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 14:49:45 +0000 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA37756 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 15:49:28 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20010203164017.3fd7a4a4@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 16:40:17 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: G3AQC complete call Q5 in USA In-reply-to: <3A7B5423.FF89145E@att.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Congrats to Laurie & Dexter. It seems that 60 sec./dot opens a complete new world of posibilities. Two things to do now : - try to get some (more) transmitting activity at the western side of the pond ('wake' the AMRAD licences ?) - find a 'mode' that optimizes the transmission speed, if possible usable with high efficiency (class D) PA's. 73, Rik ON7YD At 19:43 2/02/01 -0500, you wrote: >I just copied Laurie's complete call on 135.922 KHz. See it at: > >http://dmcintyre.home.att.net/G3AQC-2feb01.jpg > >http://dmcintyre.home.att.net/G3AQCb-2feb01.jpg > >MØBMU's dashes are at the top and looks like someone is now transmitting >between them near 135.9225 KHz. > >73, >Dexter, W4DEX > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6191 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 15:00:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 15:00:33 -0000 Received: (qmail 8797 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 15:03:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 15:03:24 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14P46x-0001VQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 14:56:23 +0000 Received: from smtp.wanadoo.nl ([194.134.193.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14P46w-0001VL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 14:56:22 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from default (p147.vcu.wanadoo.nl [194.134.200.111]) by smtp.wanadoo.nl (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id PAA23427 for ; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 15:56:05 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <200102031456.PAA23427@smtp.wanadoo.nl> Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 15:56:13 +0100 From: "Ko Versteeg" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Organization: NL9222 X-Mailer: FoxMail 2.1 [en] MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dexter, Laurie.. Congratulations on making it across ( more than once ) I hope it will be rewarded properly this time.. I inquired once for the litlle i did (1st swl: PA - VA) as just an swl but never ever got any response to it, not even a denial What a way to encourage newcomers to 136k, perhaps swl's are more useless on this band than i thought! Good luck, Ko Versteeg, NL9222. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7324 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 14:31:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 14:31:57 -0000 Received: (qmail 13285 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 14:34:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 14:34:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14P3f8-0001I6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 14:27:38 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14P3f7-0001Hu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 14:27:37 +0000 Received: from att.net ([12.77.29.119]) by mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.10 201-229-121-110) with ESMTP id <20010203142651.LZGC29713.mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net@att.net> for ; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 14:26:51 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A7C1529.3ED33C10@att.net> Date: Sat, 03 Feb 2001 09:26:49 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre w4dex" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re. G3AQC complete call Q5 in USA References: <000201c08dcb$9b615a60$06c2883e@lvm> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Laurie, Even if I was authorized to transmit we could not have make a QSO last night at that speed. Your signal was Q5 for about one hour. It took 45 minuets to copy your call. With the signal I was receiving 30 second element DFCW would have worked and a QSO could have possibly been made. I could tell that Jim had modified his timing but I didn't understand that he was trying to send his call. I also noticed a line between Jim's dashes as can be seen on the second shot I posted. It is just to the right of center. Then a new signal appeared between your and Jim's signal that can be seen at the right edge of the shot. Later Graham, G3XTZ, reported he had initially transmitted on Jim's frequency but moved to 135.9225. I would have copied the call of this third signal had it not been for the noise steadily increasing after 0040 UT. I could only make out faint traces of all signals the rest of the night. This was due to increased noise not lack of signal. I will continue to monitor this 3 hz window for your DFCW. Either .1 or .2 hz shift should work. 73, Dexter, W4DEX LAWRENCE MAYHEAD wrote: > > Congratulations Dexter ! > We did it on only 350mW!!!! I make the distance between us 6360Kms . > Perseverance pays Hi. I hope you get that award. > I should like to continue with tests in order to prove DFCW versus QRS for > the eventual QSO, which cant be long now. > Tonight I will revert to DFCW details later. > 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27036 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 14:21:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 14:21:39 -0000 Received: (qmail 2683 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 14:24:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 14:24:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14P3SE-0001Ge-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 14:14:18 +0000 Received: from smtp-1.visp.telinco.net ([212.1.130.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14P3SD-0001GZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 14:14:18 +0000 Received: from [212.1.137.123] (helo=g4jnt) by smtp-1.visp.telinco.net with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14P3EH-0001OT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 13:59:53 +0000 Message-ID: <001a01c08dea$bcd34540$7b8901d4@g4jnt> From: "Andrew Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Beacon signals Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 14:07:36 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: -----Original Message----- >From: James Moritz >Subject: LF: Beacon signals >long dots and dashes, and took about 1hour 20mins to send the >complete call. Does anybody know of a keyer program available for .longer dot lengths ? My SLOWCW programme will generate dot lengths up to 1800 seconds. If you want longer it only means changing one variable from a short int to a long int and recompiling Andy G4JNT From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20897 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 13:44:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 13:44:51 -0000 Received: (qmail 9479 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 13:48:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 13:48:30 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14P2ww-00016Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 13:41:58 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from kuku-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.63] helo=kuku.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14P2wv-00016T-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 13:41:57 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from chilly.excite.com ([199.172.153.77]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010203134139.NLG21514.kuku.excite.com@chilly.excite.com> for ; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 05:41:39 -0800 Message-ID: <30689223.981207699889.JavaMail.imail@chilly.excite.com> Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 05:41:31 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: G3AQC complete call Q5 in USA MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 213.104.153.2 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Congratulations Laurie and Dexter. That is a very clear call sign on the pair of JPGs, thanks to Argo. Now just a matter of getting both sides organised at the same time. 73, John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5566 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 12:24:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 12:24:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 9421 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 12:27:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 12:27:07 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14P1gE-0000gZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 12:20:38 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14P1g0-0000gU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 12:20:29 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14P1fj-0004qX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 12:20:07 +0000 Message-ID: <24959.200102031219@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 12:23:48 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Beacon signals X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Transmitted beacon signals from 2315 until 0420 last night; I QSY'd slightly to 135.9233 because my usual frequency was already in use when I started. Due to popular demand, some time after midnight, I changed from the 5 dashes pattern I have been sending to something which should resemble my callsign - it is actually an improvisation obtained by putting together the appropriate number of 30s dashes and 10s spaces; when viewed in a narrow resolution, these merged together reasonably well into long dots and dashes, and took about 1hour 20mins to send the complete call. Does anybody know of a keyer program available for longer dot lengths ? I monitored VA3LK's frequency, but have just received an E-mail from Larry saying he would not be transmitting from Thursday onwards - which probably explains why I didn't receive anything! Larry also confirms receiving my beacon signal around midnight on Tuesday night. My E-mail account does not appear to be working properly still, although I have received a few much delayed messages this morning. My apologies if anyone is expecting a reply from me - please try again. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29513 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 11:45:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 11:45:00 -0000 Received: (qmail 7968 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 11:47:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 11:47:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14P14o-0000Vf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 11:41:58 +0000 Received: from tomts8.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.52] helo=tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14P14k-0000Va-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 11:41:54 +0000 Received: from server1 ([216.209.110.95]) by tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010203114109.WRNX10080.tomts8-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 06:41:09 -0500 Message-ID: <003401c08dd6$01044a30$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D7594@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> Subject: LF: Re: RE: QSO Time Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 06:37:13 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings: There is a person of considerable repute who said words to the effect that "The thinking that bought us this far is not the thinking needed to get to the solution of the situation that we now find ourselve in". Let us have a QSO over the amount of time needed to see if our peers will judge in the light of success and achievement if they choose to recognize the effort as a valid QSO. Speaking of EME, when I was at VE3ONT on 2 meters I chased a young lad in France with 25W and an 8 element beam for well over 4 hours until I finally got the last sequence from him. We worked many others during the hours but I kept going back to this lads frequency during my operating periods and he was very smart, he kept trying and finally he made it. I also remember on 10 GHz we spent many hours chasing one chap, each of us taking a run at him, I think it was into the second day when we finally got him - but he kept trying and stayed on one QRG and we new he was there and he responded every time we kept calling him. I am not sure that 24 hours is a valid limit for a QSO any more. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17779 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 10:37:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 10:37:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 13278 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 10:31:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 10:31:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OzpG-00005f-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 10:21:50 +0000 Received: from mail6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OzpD-00005a-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 10:21:47 +0000 Received: from modem-6.emerie.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.194.6] helo=lvm) by mail6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14Ozoz-0006oH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 10:21:34 +0000 Message-ID: <000201c08dcb$9b615a60$06c2883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: Re. G3AQC complete call Q5 in USA Date: Sat, 3 Feb 2001 10:19:49 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Congratulations Dexter ! We did it on only 350mW!!!! I make the distance between us 6360Kms . Perseverance pays Hi. I hope you get that award. I should like to continue with tests in order to prove DFCW versus QRS for the eventual QSO, which cant be long now. Tonight I will revert to DFCW details later. 73s Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5240 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 04:13:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 04:13:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 848 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 04:07:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 04:07:49 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Otty-0006mk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 04:02:18 +0000 Received: from imo-d03.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.35]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Ottx-0006lc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 04:02:17 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-d03.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v29.5.) id l.2b.1093bc44 (7042) for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 23:01:28 -0500 (EST) From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <2b.1093bc44.27acdc98@aol.com> Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 23:01:28 EST Subject: Re: LF: G3AQC complete call Q5 in USA To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 120 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Amazing! Congratulations, Dexter and Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20245 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 00:59:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 00:59:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 4656 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 00:53:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 00:53:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Oqrp-0005jY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 00:47:53 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mtiwmhc27.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.52]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Oqro-0005jR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 00:47:52 +0000 Received: from att.net ([12.77.27.126]) by mtiwmhc27.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.10 201-229-121-110) with ESMTP id <20010203004705.OROB485.mtiwmhc27.worldnet.att.net@att.net> for ; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 00:47:05 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A7B5507.A45EA464@att.net> Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 19:47:03 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre w4dex" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: G3XTZ's QRM References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I saw you QRM Jim's signal! Bad boy! Dexter Graham Phillips wrote: > > Hi all, > > I will operate as much as I can this weekend, QRSS 10 sec element, freq > 135.9225. > I did start on 135.923, but realised that Jim was already there ! ... sorry > Jim, but I don't think that I will have caused you any QRM. Best Wishes to > all and fingers crossed for some good conditions. > > Graham, G3XTZ. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1435 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 00:48:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 00:48:01 -0000 Received: (qmail 21308 invoked from network); 3 Feb 2001 00:50:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 3 Feb 2001 00:50:53 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OqoD-0005jG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 00:44:09 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.50]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OqoC-0005jB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 03 Feb 2001 00:44:08 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from att.net ([12.77.27.126]) by mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.10 201-229-121-110) with ESMTP id <20010203004318.GHHI29713.mtiwmhc25.worldnet.att.net@att.net> for ; Sat, 3 Feb 2001 00:43:18 +0000 Message-ID: <3A7B5423.FF89145E@att.net> Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 19:43:15 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre w4dex" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: G3AQC complete call Q5 in USA Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I just copied Laurie's complete call on 135.922 KHz. See it at: http://dmcintyre.home.att.net/G3AQC-2feb01.jpg http://dmcintyre.home.att.net/G3AQCb-2feb01.jpg MØBMU's dashes are at the top and looks like someone is now transmitting between them near 135.9225 KHz. 73, Dexter, W4DEX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24328 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 23:56:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 23:56:31 -0000 Received: (qmail 25140 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 23:50:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 23:50:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OpoE-0005Kj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 23:40:06 +0000 Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OpoD-0005KL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 23:40:05 +0000 Received: from rgcomms.demon.co.uk ([193.237.77.63] helo=G) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14Opnw-0009G2-0C for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 23:39:48 +0000 From: "Graham Phillips" To: "Rsgb_Lf_Group" Subject: LF: VA3LK Listening Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 23:39:51 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, I will operate as much as I can this weekend, QRSS 10 sec element, freq 135.9225. I did start on 135.923, but realised that Jim was already there ! ... sorry Jim, but I don't think that I will have caused you any QRM. Best Wishes to all and fingers crossed for some good conditions. Graham, G3XTZ. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28257 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 18:57:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 18:57:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 13462 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 19:01:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 19:01:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OlMC-0003rn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 18:54:52 +0000 Received: from [212.159.14.225] (helo=murphys-outbound.servers.plus.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OlMA-0003rf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 18:54:50 +0000 Received: (qmail 8714 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 18:54:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO picks) (212.159.41.238) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 18:54:04 -0000 Message-ID: <003c01c08d49$9749d060$ee299fd4@f9.net.uk> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001d01c08cb5$7a37a450$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> Subject: LF: Re: VA3LK Listening Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 18:54:33 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Larry, Dexter and all. I will be transmitting 30 second element QRSS 2:1 ratio on a nominal freq of 135.9215. >From now until 2300. Dave G3YXM. > Greetings All: > > I will be listening on 135.922, 60 second ARGO from now until February 5th > using the antenna I normally transmit on up at the remote site. I will be > capturing every 1800 seconds continuously and will study the files collected > next week. > > The receiver is recording from 135.9208 to 135.9232. > > I encourage all who can possibly get into that window to make an attempt > over this weekend, as much and as often as you can. Please email me with > details of your transmissions so I can search the files next week for > results. I estimate that the transmit antenna has as much as 10 dB better > than the resonant loop I am using here in the village. > > It is becoming obvious to me that the techniques that have bought us this > far on LF are at the end of their development and we need some new ways to > bring us to a QSO over the North Atlantic from here in Eastern Ontario. > > Larry > VA3LK > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18616 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 18:45:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 18:45:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 5365 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 18:39:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 18:39:58 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Ol2i-0003kw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 18:34:44 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Ol2e-0003ko-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 18:34:42 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14Ol2P-0002o4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 18:34:25 +0000 Message-ID: <14197.200102021834@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 18:38:25 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: No E-mail / Last night X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Sorry if I have not responded to any E-mails in the last day or so - the University E-mail servers have been doing something mysterious with incoming mail, and I have not been receiving anything. It will probably take a while to filter through now. Last night, I transmitted beacon signals from 2020 until 0240 - usual QRG and signal. I set my receiver to monitor VA3LK's beacon after that, but saw no trace of signal up until 0900. The QRN "switched off" at around 0600. Have just received another report from W4DEX, and screen shot showing good reception around 0019 on Wednesday night. This evening, I plan to monitor 73kHz for a while to see if there is any activity, so will probably start a bit later with the beacon signal. Hope this E-mail actually arrives.... Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9637 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 18:39:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 18:39:03 -0000 Received: (qmail 20271 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 18:33:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 18:33:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Okv0-0003ge-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 18:26:46 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Okuw-0003gZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 18:26:42 +0000 Received: from [213.1.108.84] (helo=host213-1-108-84.btinternet.com) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14Okui-0001lZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 18:26:29 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Nick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: 3C85 Material: Obsolete? Date: Fri, 02 Feb 2001 18:25:27 +0000 Message-ID: References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D758E@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> In-reply-to: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D758E@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:24:13 -0000 , you wrote: >Yes - that's why I'm engineering it so the PTT line operates the chip >reset pin and only brings the PSU up via its soft-start on transmit. >'JNT Very wise Nick From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19628 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 17:18:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 17:18:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 18067 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 17:21:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 17:21:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Ojl9-0003Ke-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 17:12:31 +0000 Received: from bru5-smtp-out2.uunet.be ([194.7.1.6] helo=bru5-smtp-out2.be.uu.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Ojl8-0003He-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 17:12:30 +0000 Received: from be047304 (uu212-190-0-68.unknown.uunet.be [212.190.0.68]) by bru5-smtp-out2.be.uu.net (8.11.2/8.11.2) with SMTP id f12HCBg16950 for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 18:12:11 +0100 (MET) Message-ID: <004801c08d3b$ae50ed60$4400bed4@be047304> From: "Sommereyns Ruddy" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000001c08d15$279241a0$2b0e883e@default> Subject: LF: Re: TR QSO TIME Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 18:14:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Mal, You also can lift a weight of let's say 2000 kg (1000 pound) to a height of 1 meter, with only a small dc motor from a tape-recorder coupled to an enormeous reduction-box.. It will only take several years, but it can be done. The design ,construction and testing is the the achievement but for the rest it is totally useless. 73 Ruddy ----- Original Message ----- From: MAL HAMILTON To: rsgb Sent: Thursday, February 01, 2001 8:24 PM Subject: LF: TR QSO TIME > Someone has suggested a qso would be valid if it took 24 hours. I think > this is rediculous, because it is not likely that any operator would > continuously try for this period of time. So for one signal to be copied at > a particular time and a reply that came 24 hours later would not be valid as > far as I am concerned. > I would agree that a qso on slow morse could take a few hours during a > session and that would be acceptable but to call back next day with a reply > is stupid and not credible. > The next suggestion by some will be a week long qso!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is > hardly state of the art communications and puts the clock back, dont suppose > it ever took anyone 24 hours plus to have a two way contact even druing the > pioneering days!!!!!!!! > Not sure about smoke signals but I do not think so, they were probably > faster than slow morse. > > G3KEV > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17026 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 17:16:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 17:16:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 13474 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 17:19:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 17:19:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OjjV-0003HG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 17:10:49 +0000 Received: from fep04.swip.net ([130.244.199.132] helo=fep04-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OjjT-0003H9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 17:10:47 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.96.153]) by fep04-svc.swip.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with SMTP id <20010202170940.BDZK20586.fep04-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 18:09:40 +0100 Message-ID: <003401c08d3b$11fdb380$996097d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: SV: TR QSO TIME Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 18:10:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Mal, >Not sure about smoke signals but I do not think so, they were probably >faster than slow morse. Haha! Well, I think you are wrong. G3YXM's recent experiments with a parallel RF/smoke transmitter shows clearly that the smoke TX is much slower. In fact, the RF QRSS QSO was finished long before anyone even noticed any smoke coming from the smoke stage of the TX system. 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21568 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 16:14:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 16:14:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 26155 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 16:18:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 16:18:22 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OioC-0002xo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 16:11:36 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Oio8-0002xj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 16:11:32 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id QAA01186; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 16:12:58 GMT Received: (qmail 17016 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 17:04:30 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 17:04:30 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id QAA14563; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 16:55:04 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma014475; Fri, 2 Feb 01 16:54:24 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-3.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 16:14:21 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-3.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1ATS3B93>; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 16:10:17 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D7594@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: QSO Time Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 16:10:31 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: 4 hours is not at all an unreasonable period for a valid QSO, especially when we are using a bandwidth of 2 minutes ^ -1 I once took 45 minutes to complete a QSO on 10GHz using CW repeated continuously both ways. If QSO time is considered to be proportional to carrier frequency, that equates to 10368 / 0.137 * 45 / 60/24/365.25 = 6.47 years at LF Alternatively, comparing bandwidths (assume an effective 400Hz aural bandwidth for the scattered microwave signal), it equates to 45 * 400Hz / 0.008Hz / 60 / 24 / 365.25 = 4.3 years. So 24 hours at 0.008Hz bandwidth on 137kHz calculates back up to around 2.3 seconds in a 300Hz CW bandwidth. Who can manage a complete report exchange on CW in that time ? It is Friday afternoon again :-<> 'JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: Mike Dennison [mailto:mike.dennison@rsgb.org.uk] > Sent: 2001-02-02 14:38 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: QSO Time > > > G3KEV wrote: > > Someone has suggested a qso would be valid if it took > 24 hours. I > > think > > this is rediculous, because it is not likely that any operator would > > continuously try for this period of time. > > So you wouldn't allow NA-Eu one night and Eu-NA the following > night? > > And if I were to work ZL on 136kHz by integrating each dot over > several days, you wouldn't think I had made a QSO, even if I > exchanged callsigns and reports? And this despite the fact that I and > my QSO partner would have had to design and construct some > extremely clever kit to do it. > > The real key is: Is the QSO continuous? ie Was there a gap in time > where conditions were such that the QSO could have been > continued, but was not? Any other ruling would instantly outlaw > contacts which would be possible only with very sophisticated > techniques, and would stifle development of these techniques. > > Note, though, that we don't really need rules except for awards. If I > think I have made a contact that's good enough for me. > > > Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) > http://www.lf.thersgb.net > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15622 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 14:46:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 14:46:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 27354 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 14:49:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 14:49:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OhMO-0002Ri-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 14:38:48 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OhMJ-0002Rd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 14:38:44 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 14:37:46 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 14:37:43 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: QSO Time Message-ID: <3A7AC637.31696.1012345@localhost> In-reply-to: <000001c08d15$279241a0$2b0e883e@default> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3KEV wrote: > Someone has suggested a qso would be valid if it took 24 hours. I > think > this is rediculous, because it is not likely that any operator would > continuously try for this period of time. So you wouldn't allow NA-Eu one night and Eu-NA the following night? And if I were to work ZL on 136kHz by integrating each dot over several days, you wouldn't think I had made a QSO, even if I exchanged callsigns and reports? And this despite the fact that I and my QSO partner would have had to design and construct some extremely clever kit to do it. The real key is: Is the QSO continuous? ie Was there a gap in time where conditions were such that the QSO could have been continued, but was not? Any other ruling would instantly outlaw contacts which would be possible only with very sophisticated techniques, and would stifle development of these techniques. Note, though, that we don't really need rules except for awards. If I think I have made a contact that's good enough for me. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9517 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 12:50:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 12:50:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 5402 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 12:53:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 12:53:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OfbL-0001rk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 12:46:07 +0000 Received: from cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.177]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OfbD-0001rZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 12:45:59 +0000 Received: from modem-43.phosphorus.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.14.43] helo=default) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14Ofay-0000kU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 12:45:44 +0000 Message-ID: <000101c08d15$29239000$2b0e883e@default> From: "MAL HAMILTON" To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: 3C85 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 19:52:45 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks to all those that replied with the info that I needed. I came across some 3c5 cores ex TV and they have a u of 7000 very high. Someone was enquiring about these. I find these work well up to a few hundred watts but I always keep them cool with a fan and so avoid any instability problems that some have mentioned when they get hot. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2044 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 12:49:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 12:49:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 28361 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 12:53:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 12:53:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OfbG-0001ri-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 12:46:02 +0000 Received: from cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.177]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OfbC-0001rY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 12:45:58 +0000 Received: from modem-43.phosphorus.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.14.43] helo=default) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14Ofav-0000kU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 12:45:42 +0000 Message-ID: <000001c08d15$279241a0$2b0e883e@default> From: "MAL HAMILTON" To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: TR QSO TIME Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 19:24:21 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Someone has suggested a qso would be valid if it took 24 hours. I think this is rediculous, because it is not likely that any operator would continuously try for this period of time. So for one signal to be copied at a particular time and a reply that came 24 hours later would not be valid as far as I am concerned. I would agree that a qso on slow morse could take a few hours during a session and that would be acceptable but to call back next day with a reply is stupid and not credible. The next suggestion by some will be a week long qso!!!!!!!!!!!!!!!! This is hardly state of the art communications and puts the clock back, dont suppose it ever took anyone 24 hours plus to have a two way contact even druing the pioneering days!!!!!!!! Not sure about smoke signals but I do not think so, they were probably faster than slow morse. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3909 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 11:22:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 11:22:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 27673 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 11:25:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 11:25:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OeCT-0001OR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 11:16:21 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OeCQ-0001OM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 11:16:18 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 11:13:22 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 11:13:21 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: GB2CPM Message-ID: <3A7A9651.3494.4606D5@localhost> In-reply-to: <000901c08c88$78b14be0$73e086d4@ericadodd> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3LDO wrote: > .................................................. Incidentally, all > the military and commercial equipment in the museum use the title CW > on the switch that selects the mode. Same goes for all my ham radio > equipment. The important distinction is that CW is a mode of transmission, and therefore quite properly used on the front panel of a Tx, but Morse is the encoding used by the operator. You could use the CW mode for any on/off code, not necessarily Morse. Of course, we normally use the CW mode with Morse code, but they are not the same thing. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23887 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 09:48:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 09:48:38 -0000 Received: (qmail 22940 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 09:52:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 09:52:17 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OcSZ-0000lS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 09:24:51 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OcSY-0000lN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 09:24:50 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id JAA31999; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:26:17 GMT Received: (qmail 17213 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 10:17:50 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 10:17:50 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id KAA16722; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 10:08:25 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma016681; Fri, 2 Feb 01 10:08:04 GMT Received: from FRN-MAIL-3.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:27:57 +0000 Received: by frn-mail-3.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <1ATSNRRQ>; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:24:03 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D758E@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: RE: 3C85 Material: Obsolete? Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:24:13 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Yes - that's why I'm engineering it so the PTT line operates the chip reset pin and only brings the PSU up via its soft-start on transmit. 'JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: Nick [mailto:maad65@dial.pipex.com] > Sent: 2001-02-01 18:52 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: RE: 3C85 Material: Obsolete? > > > On Thu, 1 Feb 2001 13:02:29 -0000 , you wrote: > > >A pair of car batteries used on a /P expedition could easily > > discharge to 20V. The modern high power DMOS devices (for > > 1.3, 2.3 and 3.4 GHz) that this PSU is aimed at powering > > like a constant 28V Vcc so a straightforward SMPSU looks the > > obvious solution. If two batteries have to be used, then > > used in parallel they can be charged together from a car engine. > > > > Also, the same PSU design can be adapted for 50V devices > > which would need 4 batteries in series. > > > > Good reason, it is just that the EMC engineer in me has a > pronounced dislike of > any switching devices near radios! > > Nick > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11087 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 09:45:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 09:45:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 16084 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 09:39:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 09:39:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Oc8c-0000gQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 09:04:14 +0000 Received: from mail4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.211]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14Oc8Z-0000gL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 09:04:11 +0000 Received: from modem-80.humu-humu-trigger.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.31.80] helo=lvm) by mail4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14Oc8L-00033C-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 09:03:58 +0000 Message-ID: <000101c08cf7$99fbca40$501f893e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: Re. Who is on 135.921? Date: Fri, 2 Feb 2001 09:07:06 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Dexter/Larry, Thanks Dexter for the screen shot. I am sure thats my signal because of the freq shift! However the element length is too short (about 45secs ) and I dont know how to lengthen it at the moment.This is a pity since I was rather keen to get a message asross using DFCW.So I will now revert to QRSS for tonight and the weekend unless I can sort out longer elements. 73s and thanks Laurie. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11442 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 04:40:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 04:40:17 -0000 Received: (qmail 20876 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 04:43:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 04:43:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OXuF-0007zI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 04:33:07 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.46]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OXuD-0007zD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 04:33:05 +0000 Received: from att.net ([12.77.29.84]) by mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.10 201-229-121-110) with ESMTP id <20010202043221.GJAF29407.mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net@att.net>; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 04:32:21 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A7A3855.5F11E639@att.net> Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 23:32:21 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre w4dex" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: rlindquist@arrl.org Subject: LF: M0BMU received in NC, USA again Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jim's signal peaked about 0115 UT. Is the signal on the Argo 1852 line Laurie? Calibration is 1852 on Argo = 135.92205 as close as I am capable of reading. Now at 0330 QRN from Mexico has wiped out Argo running without AGC. http://dmcintyre.home.att.net/922feb01.jpg GN Dexter, W4DEX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 865 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 01:42:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 01:42:50 -0000 Received: (qmail 14298 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 01:45:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 01:45:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OVBy-00077e-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 01:39:14 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.46]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OVBx-00077Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 01:39:14 +0000 Received: from att.net ([12.77.29.84]) by mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.10 201-229-121-110) with ESMTP id <20010202013859.EAVY29407.mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net@att.net> for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 01:38:59 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A7A0FB4.72C41D9C@att.net> Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 20:39:00 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre w4dex" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Who is on 135.921? References: <001301c08cb3$a887a370$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Larry, I see the 921 signal also. Dexter Larry Kayser wrote: > > Greetings All: > > I am getting, at 0100 utc 2nd Feb a very good signal from someone on > 135.921. I have just gone up to 10s ticks and have not seen you again > yet, - I sure wish I knew who this is...... > > Larry > VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13624 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 01:28:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 01:28:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 22102 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 01:22:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 01:22:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OUpy-00071S-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 01:16:30 +0000 Received: from smtp.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.26] helo=tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OUpx-00071C-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 01:16:29 +0000 Received: from server1 ([209.226.189.181]) by tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010202011543.UOIN21723.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 20:15:43 -0500 Message-ID: <001d01c08cb5$7a37a450$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: VA3LK Listening Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 20:14:05 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings All: I will be listening on 135.922, 60 second ARGO from now until February 5th using the antenna I normally transmit on up at the remote site. I will be capturing every 1800 seconds continuously and will study the files collected next week. The receiver is recording from 135.9208 to 135.9232. I encourage all who can possibly get into that window to make an attempt over this weekend, as much and as often as you can. Please email me with details of your transmissions so I can search the files next week for results. I estimate that the transmit antenna has as much as 10 dB better than the resonant loop I am using here in the village. It is becoming obvious to me that the techniques that have bought us this far on LF are at the end of their development and we need some new ways to bring us to a QSO over the North Atlantic from here in Eastern Ontario. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11754 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 01:19:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 01:19:42 -0000 Received: (qmail 21886 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 01:22:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 01:22:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OUpq-00071K-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 01:16:22 +0000 Received: from smtp.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.26] helo=tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OUpp-00071A-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 01:16:21 +0000 Received: from server1 ([209.226.189.181]) by tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010202011532.UOGS21723.tomts6-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 20:15:32 -0500 Message-ID: <001c01c08cb5$7364f7e0$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: VA3LK OFF until Feb 5th Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 20:05:03 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings All: VA3LK is off the air on 137.7894 until February 5th. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16483 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 01:18:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 01:18:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 21176 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 01:21:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 01:21:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OUoT-000712-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 01:14:57 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net ([204.127.131.46]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OUoS-00070u-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 01:14:56 +0000 Received: from att.net ([12.77.29.84]) by mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.10 201-229-121-110) with ESMTP id <20010202011411.DSEG29407.mtiwmhc21.worldnet.att.net@att.net> for ; Fri, 2 Feb 2001 01:14:11 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A7A09E5.5B845932@att.net> Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 20:14:13 -0500 From: "Dexter McIntyre w4dex" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: M0BMU good copy in US now References: <11108.200102011452@gemini> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 0112 UT I have good copy of Jim's signal on 135.923. 73, Dex From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3865 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 01:16:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 01:16:14 -0000 Received: (qmail 11680 invoked from network); 2 Feb 2001 01:10:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 2 Feb 2001 01:10:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OUdO-0006x5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 01:03:30 +0000 Received: from tomts5.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.25] helo=tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OUdL-0006wz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 02 Feb 2001 01:03:27 +0000 Received: from server1 ([209.226.189.181]) by tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.03.00 201-229-121) with SMTP id <20010202010242.HISJ27416.tomts5-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 20:02:42 -0500 Message-ID: <001301c08cb3$a887a370$0a00a8c0@ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Who is on 135.921? Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 20:01:19 -0500 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings All: I am getting, at 0100 utc 2nd Feb a very good signal from someone on 135.921. I have just gone up to 10s ticks and have not seen you again yet, - I sure wish I knew who this is...... Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17782 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 23:15:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 23:15:09 -0000 Received: (qmail 20219 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 23:18:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 23:18:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OStS-0006KR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 23:11:58 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.176] (helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OStQ-0006KM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 23:11:57 +0000 Received: from [213.123.27.110] (helo=presario1920) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14OStD-0000hB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 23:11:43 +0000 From: "John W Gould" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Bobek Challenge QSO ? Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 23:13:21 -0000 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) In-reply-to: <3A782B7D.CE47A9BD@bellatlantic.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: and where confirmation of the station contacted and reception of reports is confirmed in both directions...... John, G3WKL -----Original Message----- From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On Behalf Of Andre' Kesteloot Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 15:13 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Bobek Challenge QSO ? Walter Blanchard wrote: > [...] > And what constitutes a QSO under QRSS conditions? The exchange of > information presumably, but what should be the minimum time-lapse between > sending and receiving? Seconds? Minutes? Hours? Days? IMHO, for the Transatlantic Challenge only, a "QSO" should be a two-way contact where both legs take place within a 24 hour period. 73 Andre' N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26216 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 20:07:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 20:07:10 -0000 Received: (qmail 18411 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 20:01:14 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 20:01:14 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OPn7-0005IA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 19:53:13 +0000 Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OPn6-0005I5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 19:53:12 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from pickmere.demon.co.uk ([158.152.117.143]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14OPms-000BlK-0A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 19:52:58 +0000 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 16:34:04 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M.J.Powell" Subject: Re: LF: S-meter standard References: <003201c0197e$a4955e40$57d725c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de> <003701c02a05$847f1d20$aa14b28f@w8k3f0> <3A774FE6.CF537646@virgin.net> <005401c08c2b$9b3380a0$1129f7c2@oemcomputer> <3A79588A.BAFE81C4@virgin.net> In-reply-to: <3A79588A.BAFE81C4@virgin.net> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In message <3A79588A.BAFE81C4@virgin.net>, Stewart Bryant writes > > >John Rabson wrote: > >> ----- Original Message ----- >> From: M.J.Powell >> To: >> Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 4:33 PM >> Subject: Re: LF: S-meter standard >> >> > In message <3A774FE6.CF537646@virgin.net>, Stewart Bryant >> > writes >> > > Why do the manufacturers still bother with S units. Why don't >> > > receivers just >> > > measure dBuV or dBm at the antenna? >> > >> > Because that would mean equalising the gain exactly over the whole >> > range. Expensive. The WJ1000 does though. >> > >> The RC411 did. >> >> 73 de >> John Rabson G3PAI > >Actually in these modern microprocessor days it does not mean equalising >the >gain, it means adding an S meter correction table to the software, and >running the S meter via the CPU rather than directly from the AGC line. Yes. Well, you can see how out of date I am! Mike -- M.J.Powell From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3774 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 19:55:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 19:55:59 -0000 Received: (qmail 16625 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 19:58:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 19:58:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OPk4-0005Hu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 19:50:04 +0000 Received: from chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net ([195.40.1.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OPk3-0005Hp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 19:50:03 +0000 Received: from ericadodd (tnt-18-115.easynet.co.uk [212.134.224.115]) by chalfont.mail.uk.easynet.net (Postfix) with SMTP id D7C03F8D04 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 19:49:49 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000901c08c88$78b14be0$73e086d4@ericadodd> From: "g3ldo" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: GB2CPM Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 19:51:25 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4522.1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I will be over at Amberley Museum tomorrow. The purpose is to check out the antenna, which was resited after being brought down by strong winds before Christmas. I will be making some impedance measurements and to try to resolve the earth problem. If all goes well I will operate on CW late morning until early afterenoon. Incidentally, all the military and commercial equipment in the museum use the title CW on the switch that selects the mode. Same goes for all my ham radio equipment. Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13973 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 18:56:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 18:56:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 20290 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 18:59:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 18:59:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OOrF-0004z2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 18:53:25 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from tungsten.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.81]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OOrE-0004yx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 18:53:24 +0000 Received: from [62.7.37.62] (helo=host62-7-37-62.btinternet.com) by tungsten.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14OOqx-00021s-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 18:53:10 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Nick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: 3C85 Material: Obsolete? Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 18:52:06 +0000 Message-ID: <91cj7tcua3pms1jj0odoengrktamr2uklk@4ax.com> References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D758D@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> In-reply-to: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D758D@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On Thu, 1 Feb 2001 13:02:29 -0000 , you wrote: >A pair of car batteries used on a /P expedition could easily > discharge to 20V. The modern high power DMOS devices (for > 1.3, 2.3 and 3.4 GHz) that this PSU is aimed at powering > like a constant 28V Vcc so a straightforward SMPSU looks the > obvious solution. If two batteries have to be used, then > used in parallel they can be charged together from a car engine. > > Also, the same PSU design can be adapted for 50V devices > which would need 4 batteries in series. > Good reason, it is just that the EMC engineer in me has a pronounced dislike of any switching devices near radios! Nick From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24492 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 17:58:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 17:58:05 -0000 Received: (qmail 7545 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 18:00:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 18:00:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14ONtG-0004fY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 17:51:26 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14ONtD-0004fT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 17:51:23 +0000 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14ONsv-0008qm-0A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 17:51:06 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A79A281.FD1184FC@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 17:53:05 +0000 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: tube sockets References: <001501c08a49$9718bb40$91df043e@be047304> <3A773E53.DB786D7A@alg.demon.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, especially Ruddy ON6UX who wrote: > I`m looking for tube sockets type "Magnoval". These have > 9-pins and used for PL509, PL519 etc.... I am pleased to report that J. Birkett, who advertises in RadCom, is still selling various valves bases, including types B9A; B9D (at 75 pence each); and even bases for the 807! Some are old, but they are unused. They might need some cleaning prior to use. Address: J. Birkett 25 The Strait, Lincoln, LN2 1JF England Tel: 01522 520767 (+44 1522 520767) (Ruddy: If you would like me to order the bases, please Email me direct to confirm your requirements) Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3616 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 16:00:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 16:00:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 26285 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 15:54:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 15:54:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OLw0-0003y7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 15:46:08 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OLvw-0003y2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 15:46:05 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 15:38:04 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 15:38:01 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: No CFA in IOM Message-ID: <3A7982D9.13643.157B75E@localhost> In-reply-to: <20010201140049.picks@force9> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > It seems that planning permission has been refused for the CFA that > "Music Man 279" were hoping to erect. This was on the grounds of > visual impact and land usage. I was looking forward to hearing that! But the the lower sideband would have included the second harmonic of 136.75kHz to the top of the band. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3097 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 14:55:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 14:55:18 -0000 Received: (qmail 9660 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 14:58:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 14:58:55 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OL6W-0003hR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 14:52:56 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hestia.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.9]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OL6T-0003hL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 14:52:53 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gemini ([147.197.200.44]) by hestia.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #4) id 14OL6F-0003Da-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 14:52:39 +0000 Message-ID: <11108.200102011452@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 14:56:38 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Beacon sigs / Ferrite grades X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF group, Transmitted the usual beacon signal on 135.923kHz from 2000 until 0305 last night, apart from a period from 2205 - 2220 when I was making an adjustment to the antenna. For the record, my 136kHz rig details for these tests are: TX output - 1200W, 6A antenna current. Antenna - inverted 'V' single wire, fed at one end. Total length of wire 50m, about 16m high in the middle and 9m at the ends. ERP - (estimate based on old measurements - antenna changed slightly since then) approx. 1W. Location - IO91VR; near Hatfield, about 25km north of london, adjacent to the Brookmans Park BBC MF transmission site. I also monitored VA3LK's frequency from 0310 - 0900, but only saw a single 'K' at about 0720. The noise level dropped abruptly at 0600. I don't think the street lights switch off this early, anyway there aren't any down my road. It would certainly be interesting if VE1ZZ could run some signals in the early morning; I don't recall him ever being QRV at this time of day, and VA3LK's signal is on the whole best at this time. 3C85 ferrite has an initial permeability around 2200 as I recall - this is typical for a 'power' grade ferrite. The very high permeability ferrites are intended for small-signal, wide band transformer applications usually. Lower permeability ferrites such as 4C65 (mu = 125) are well suited to HF transformer applications. Iron dust cores, like the Micrometals -2 and -6 grades have much lower permeability, and are intended for 'energy storage' applications (resonant circuits and filter components in this context). Philips seems to have sold it's ferrite components buisness to a Taiwanese company called Yageo - oh dear..... But fortunately, Ferroxcube seem to have reappeared in the meantime - http://www.ferroxcube.com/ has data sheets. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23314 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 14:04:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 14:04:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 17298 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 14:08:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 14:08:03 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OKJn-0003TF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 14:02:35 +0000 Received: from [212.159.14.225] (helo=murphys-outbound.servers.plus.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OKJk-0003T4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 14:02:32 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: (qmail 9881 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 14:01:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO pews.servers.plus.net) (192.168.225.10) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 14:01:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 13575 invoked by uid 80); 1 Feb 2001 14:00:49 -0000 Date: 1 Feb 2001 14:00:49 -0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: No CFA in IOM From: dave@picks.f9.co.uk X-Mailer: PlusMail Message-ID: <20010201140049.picks@force9> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Dear all. It seems that planning permission has been refused for the CFA that "Music Man 279" were hoping to erect. This was on the grounds of visual impact and land usage. I was looking forward to hearing that! Info on their website.. http://www.longwaveradio.com Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11568 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 13:47:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 13:47:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 22115 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 13:50:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 13:50:16 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OK1c-0003IM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 13:43:48 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from gigi.excite.com ([199.172.152.110]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OK1b-0003IH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 13:43:47 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from bronty ([199.172.153.112]) by gigi.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010201134303.VSQE13736.gigi.excite.com@bronty> for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 05:43:03 -0800 Message-ID: <25478697.981034983200.JavaMail.imail@bronty> Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 05:42:53 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: The dual lines on 137.790 ..source?? MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 62.253.64.5 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Alan, I don't think the dual lines are spurs from DCF42/49. The only spur around this frequency is at 137.7921. I calculated a complete list from Markus email and posted it on my web page: www.g4cnn.f2s.com, in a section dealing with Loran lines and other spurs. However 136501.8 Hz, which I reported this morning in my record of monitoring Jack last night is one of these spurs and is specifically mentioned in Markus email. Yes the dual lines do indeed disappear at local dawn though occasionally pop up again for some minutes afterwards rather weakly and as you say Larry's signal does not change sharply but slowly reduces over the next couple of hours or so. So I agree with your conclusion that they (the dual lines) are probably from the east. >From charts in a rather ancient handbook of the BAA, sunrise on 31 Jan is about 7.40, whereas I saw the QRN watershed about 6.20 on that date. The shadow edge is over the middle of Poland at that time. 73, John, G4CNN PS I tried to send this just to the sub-group, but did not succeed. Hence the copy on the reflector. _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17959 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 13:13:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 13:13:58 -0000 Received: (qmail 25582 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 13:08:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 13:08:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OJMQ-00034c-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 13:01:14 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [213.2.16.106] (helo=rsgb.org.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OJMP-00034X-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 13:01:13 +0000 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.5.R) for ; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 12:59:42 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 12:59:40 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Weekend report 27/28 Jan Message-ID: <3A795DBC.233.C6BBED@localhost> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.12c) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Although I have not seen a report from PA0SE, Dick must have been very pleased with the result of his plea for more activity at the weekend. I heard 19 different stations in 7 countries, worked four (including a new one and my best ever report from DL), and still found time to go on 73kHz. In addition I received some Morse characters from VA3LK during the night. Sat 27 January Heard CW from G3YXM (5 9+10 9); PA0SE (569); DJ8WX (439); G3BDQ (599); G3XTZ (5 9+10 9); GW4HXO (579); ON6ND ( an excellent 599); G3OLB (599); G6RO (579); G3LDO (5 9+10 9); EI0CF (569); F6BWO (439) and GW4ALG (579). Worked G4CNN (589); DF0WD (gave 549, got 579). Listened for G0AKY on 73kHz, but nothing heard. Beaconed on 72.650kHz from 1000-1200UTC. Sun 28 January In addition to yesterday's stations, heard DJ5DI (539); DJ9IE (579). OE5ODL was being worked by DL and PA stations but I could not hear him. Worked PA0BWL (579) and a new one for me G0VXG (he was 339- 549), Richard is in Telford. On 73kHz, I heard QSOs between M0BMU (Herts) and G3KMP and G0AKY (both E Sussex). Congratulations, lads. Although Jim was giving them 559, I could barely hear them but could see very clear signals on Argo. Beaconed from 10 to 12UTC. Let's hope the activity stays up. I will make a point of making some QSOs. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.lf.thersgb.net From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28555 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 13:06:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 13:06:56 -0000 Received: (qmail 22743 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 13:10:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 13:10:32 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OJOZ-000350-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 13:03:27 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OJOX-00034u-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 13:03:25 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id NAA27138; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 13:04:50 GMT Received: (qmail 14858 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 13:56:26 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 13:56:26 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id NAA11205; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 13:47:06 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma011119; Thu, 1 Feb 01 13:46:27 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 13:06:12 +0000 Received: by frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id <1ATQD541>; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 13:02:29 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D758D@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: RE: 3C85 Material: Obsolete? Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 13:02:29 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: A pair of car batteries used on a /P expedition could easily discharge to 20V. The modern high power DMOS devices (for 1.3, 2.3 and 3.4 GHz) that this PSU is aimed at powering like a constant 28V Vcc so a straightforward SMPSU looks the obvious solution. If two batteries have to be used, then used in parallel they can be charged together from a car engine. Also, the same PSU design can be adapted for 50V devices which would need 4 batteries in series. Andy G4JNT > -----Original Message----- > From: Nick [mailto:maad65@dial.pipex.com] > Sent: 2001-02-01 11:39 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: RE: 3C85 Material: Obsolete? > On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 14:55:04 -0000, you wrote: > > >As part of a project for the other end of the spectrum, I'm in the > >process of designing a 300 - 400W SMPSU for converting a 12V > car battery > >supply to 28V so will be looking into similar sized cores as > needed for > >137kHz kW systems. > > How about a second car battery in series?? You can add a > small invertor to > charge it off the original is you want long term operation > with the engine > running. > > Nick > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29884 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 13:00:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 13:00:23 -0000 Received: (qmail 10788 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 13:03:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 13:03:14 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OJHS-0002zU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 12:56:06 +0000 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OJHQ-0002zN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 12:56:05 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id MAA04357; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 12:57:28 GMT Received: (qmail 13950 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 13:49:04 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 13:49:04 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id NAA09936; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 13:39:44 GMT Received: from unknown(10.71.64.31) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma009820; Thu, 1 Feb 01 13:39:14 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 12:58:53 +0000 Received: by frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id <1ATQD5RT>; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 12:55:10 -0000 Message-ID: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D758B@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: 3C85 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 12:55:09 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Does anyone know the permability and spec of 3c85 material? I cannot find > this info in any of my tech info books. The T200 series seem very low like u10 powdered iron whereas > the 3c5 ferrite type are as high as u7000 Seems important to get the right mix > g3kev > For ferrite material used in transformers the Ur is irrelevant so long as it is 'High' enough to ensure magnetising current is negligable compared with that current transferred through to the secondary. Permeability of high Ur ferrites is a very unstable parameter anyway, and shifts wildly with temperature and flux density. Once a suitable ferrite for power and frequency is identified, the important thing is Bmax which is a function of Volt-seconds, core area and turns. The parameter affecting upper frequency performance is the hysteresis losses in the material, and overall losses with increasing power mean that total ferrite volume scales with power transferred across the transformer. 'Better' ferrites have lower hysteresis loss at higher frequencies, but very rarely can Bmax ever much above 0.2 Tesla with modern materials, so provided this vital parameter is never exceeded, transformers using a ferrite appropriate to the frequency, and size suitable for the power will work OK. To get an idea of what core size can do what, look at some SMPSU transformers as used in computer power supplies. Modern 200W supplies use a surprisingly small core and they operate in the region of 100 - 200kHz. When carrying a sine wave I have found that a given core is a lot more efficient than when carrying a squarewave, and can use less turns, so a core from a 200W SMPSU is probably going to be adequate for a 400W 137k sinewave signal. For Iron dust (or ferrite dust, or ferrite with an airgap) the material serves only to 'conduct' the magnetic field into a small airgap and this defines the total inductance. For a gapped ferrite core the gap dimensions are exact and can be measured. Inductance can then be determined quite accurately from the width and area of the gap alone PROVIDED the ferrite has a high enough Ur to not influence the total value (analogy: small and large resistors in parallel) and is not saturating. The result is that a standard sized gapped core then has a specific inductance specified in Henries per (turn squared). In dust cores, of course, the gap cannnot be identified physically and the specification is then replaced by the specific inductance value only. Permeability can be a bit more accurately defined now as it depends mainly on the gap rather than the magnetic material, hence is defined in manufacture by particle size, mix density etc, but is not as useful a parameter as Al. The frequency limits are defined by the losses in the material making up the body of the core. Bmax rules still apply, so Vrms = 4.44.F.N.A.B should still be used to derive the minimum number of turns needed to prevent saturation, and again power handling scales with the material volume. Don't add too many extra turns to try to reduce B too much, as then copper losses begin to creep up offset against diminishing returns on core losses. For professional large PSU transformer designs, considerable effort is spent carefully trading off copper losses and core losses to maximise efficiency, primarily to reduce heating. Iron dust 200 cores mean 200 (units of 0.01") in diameter and the following number (and colour of the coating) shows which frequency family they belong to. The ARRL Handbook (all editions for the last 25 years) contains an excelent set of Iron dust core specifications. Andy G4JNT > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16079 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 12:49:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 12:49:52 -0000 Received: (qmail 28950 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 12:43:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 12:43:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OIxD-0002sa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 12:35:11 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jaws.cisco.com ([198.135.0.150] helo=cisco.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OIxC-0002sT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 12:35:10 +0000 Received: from virgin.net (uxb-dhcp-198-135-1-193.cisco.com [198.135.1.193]) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA29726 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 12:34:23 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A7957BB.A55B2BFF@virgin.net> Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 12:34:03 +0000 From: "Stewart Bryant" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: S-meter standard References: <003201c0197e$a4955e40$57d725c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de> <003701c02a05$847f1d20$aa14b28f@w8k3f0> <3A774FE6.CF537646@virgin.net> <000601c08c19$9d9a9ac0$53ad7ad5@dave> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave Sergeant wrote: > >From Dave G3YMC > > Stewart Bryant wrote: > >Why do the manufacturers still bother with S units. Why don't receivers > just > >measure dBuV or dBm at the antenna? > > This may be fine for technical specs etc but most of us would far rather > send 599 in a qso than 'your are 1.34dBuV'. The s meter scale is an > admirable shorthand and should be maintained. > > 73s Dave > dsergeant@btinternet.com > dsergeant@iee.org > http://www.btinternet.com/~dsergeant I though that this was a technical hobby! Didn't we sort of get used to the idea that power was recorded in dBW? I suspect the main problem would be that the manufacturers would loose plausible deniability with regard to receiver spec tollerances. 73 Stewart G3YSX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5836 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 12:43:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 12:43:34 -0000 Received: (qmail 2398 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 12:46:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 12:46:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OJ0W-0002tE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 12:38:36 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jaws.cisco.com ([198.135.0.150] helo=cisco.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OJ0U-0002sy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 12:38:35 +0000 Received: from virgin.net (uxb-dhcp-198-135-1-193.cisco.com [198.135.1.193]) by cisco.com (8.8.8/2.6/Cisco List Logging/8.8.8) with ESMTP id MAA00038 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 12:37:50 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3A79588A.BAFE81C4@virgin.net> Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 12:37:30 +0000 From: "Stewart Bryant" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.73 [en]C-CCK-MCD (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: S-meter standard References: <003201c0197e$a4955e40$57d725c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de><003701c02a05$847f1d20$aa14b28f@w8k3f0> <3A774FE6.CF537646@virgin.net> <005401c08c2b$9b3380a0$1129f7c2@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John Rabson wrote: > ----- Original Message ----- > From: M.J.Powell > To: > Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 4:33 PM > Subject: Re: LF: S-meter standard > > > In message <3A774FE6.CF537646@virgin.net>, Stewart Bryant > > writes > > > Why do the manufacturers still bother with S units. Why don't > > > receivers just > > > measure dBuV or dBm at the antenna? > > > > Because that would mean equalising the gain exactly over the whole > > range. Expensive. The WJ1000 does though. > > > The RC411 did. > > 73 de > John Rabson G3PAI Actually in these modern microprocessor days it does not mean equalising the gain, it means adding an S meter correction table to the software, and running the S meter via the CPU rather than directly from the AGC line. 73 Stewart G3YSX From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23764 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 12:34:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 12:34:22 -0000 Received: (qmail 20501 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 12:37:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 12:37:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OIsG-0002s1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 12:30:04 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from tlvsca.vim.tlt.alcatel.it ([194.243.74.245]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OIsF-0002rZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 12:30:03 +0000 Received: from tlvk7v (tlvk7v.vim.tlt.alcatel.it [151.98.40.9]) by tlvsca.vim.tlt.alcatel.it (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with SMTP id NAA10022 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 13:28:23 +0100 (MET) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 13:19:21 +0100 From: "Claudio Girardi" Subject: LF: 3C85 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Mailer: Z-Mail Pro 6.2, NetManage Inc. [ZM62_16H] X-Priority: 3 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-MIME-Autoconverted: from 8bit to quoted-printable by tlvsca.vim.tlt.alcatel.it id NAA10022 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Mal, the Philips data sheet says: 3C85 SPECIFICATIONS SYMBOL CONDITIONS VALUE UNIT ui 25 °C; <10 kHz; 0.1 mT 2000 ±20% ua 100 °C; 25 kHz; 200 mT 5500 ±25% B 25°C; 10 kHz; 250 A/m >400 mT 100 °C; 10 kHz; 250 A/m >330 Pv 100 °C; 25 kHz; 200 mT <140 kW/m^3 100 °C; 100 kHz; 100 mT <165 rho DC; 25 °C approx. 2 ohm m Tc >200 °C density approx. 4800 kg/m^3 Note that the (initial) permeability goes from 1700 to 4000 in the range from 0°C to 100°C... 73 de IN3OTD, Claudio > Hi All > Does anyone know the permability and spec of 3c85 material? I cannot find > this info in any of my tech info books. > The T200 series seem very low like u10 powdered iron whereas the 3c5 ferrite > type are as high as u7000 > Seems important to get the right mix > g3kev From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 240 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 12:25:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 12:25:32 -0000 Received: (qmail 10211 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 12:29:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 12:29:09 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OIkb-0002o1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 12:22:09 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.1.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OIkY-0002nw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 12:22:06 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ns.sympatico.ca ([142.177.88.7]) by jubilee.ns.sympatico.ca (Post.Office MTA v3.5.2 release 221 ID# 0-68925U141000L141000S0V35) with ESMTP id ca for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 08:21:50 -0400 Message-ID: <3A799B7F.DDB284BA@ns.sympatico.ca> Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 12:23:11 -0500 From: "John Currie" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-DIAL (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: lf tests Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all , My antenna coupler is busted so I have not been able to test this week. Also I cannot visit Jack qth this weekend . It is a 500 mile round trip and I forgot about a family committment . Sri 73 de John VE1ZJ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27637 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 11:47:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by excalibur.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 11:47:16 -0000 Received: (qmail 12088 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 11:41:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 11:41:22 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OHwd-0002Wk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 11:30:31 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from bucky-rwcmex.excite.com ([198.3.99.218] helo=bucky.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OHwZ-0002WY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 11:30:28 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from bronty ([199.172.153.112]) by bucky.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20010201113010.USDZ18109.bucky.excite.com@bronty> for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 03:30:10 -0800 Message-ID: <5484790.981027010402.JavaMail.imail@bronty> Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 03:29:51 -0800 (PST) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: VE1ZZ last night 010131/010201 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 62.253.64.5 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, Last night I monitored Jack's (VE1ZZ) signal to see whether it followed a similar pattern to Larry's. Unfortunately Jack's last transmission was from 23.30 till 23.40, which rather limited the usefulness of the test. His signal was already clear in the 22.00 to 22.10 time slot, and grew increasingly stronger, being very strong during the last slot. I noticed a drop in frequency from 136500.1 to 136499.6, a drop of 0.5Hz in the last transmission. After his transmissions stopped, I found a weak trace at his initial frequency, not a Loran line. I used Argo to monitor with 10 sec dots and set capture to start at 22.10 and thereafter at 30 minute intervals. With 10 sec dots, one screen's width represents 10 minutes, one transmission slot. 10 sec dots is a little too long because the dots and dashes begin to merge into one another, but it was still possible to see his call sign clearly. Other observations: A strong patch of QRN about 04.10. The "big switch off" was not so marked this morning but occurred at approx 06.20. Other non-Loran signals were seen at 136490.4, 136493.7, 136500.1, 135501.9 and 136506.2. Plus 8 Loran lines which I used for calibration. It would be useful if Jack could set up his station to transmit automatically through a whole night. I am not convinced that we will see the same pattern as with Larry's signal. 73 John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Send a cool gift with your E-Card http://www.bluemountain.com/giftcenter/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19763 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 11:45:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 11:45:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 13116 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 11:48:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 11:48:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OI6Q-0002Xv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 11:40:38 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OI6P-0002Xq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 11:40:37 +0000 Received: from [213.1.108.115] (helo=host213-1-108-115.btinternet.com) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14OI6B-0005Jp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 11:40:24 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Nick" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: RE: 3C85 Material: Obsolete? Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 11:39:22 +0000 Message-ID: References: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D7581@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> In-reply-to: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D7581@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> X-Mailer: Forte Agent 1.8/32.548 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On Wed, 31 Jan 2001 14:55:04 -0000, you wrote: >As part of a project for the other end of the spectrum, I'm in the >process of designing a 300 - 400W SMPSU for converting a 12V car battery >supply to 28V so will be looking into similar sized cores as needed for >137kHz kW systems. How about a second car battery in series?? You can add a small invertor to charge it off the original is you want long term operation with the engine running. Nick From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6200 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 11:44:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 11:44:37 -0000 Received: (qmail 13038 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 11:48:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 11:48:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OI6o-0002Y4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 11:41:02 +0000 Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OI6c-0002Xy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 11:40:50 +0000 Received: from modem-145.tellurium.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.43.145] helo=default) by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 14OI6O-0000Gp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 11:40:36 +0000 Message-ID: <000101c08c42$fd704f20$912b883e@default> From: "MAL HAMILTON" To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: 3C85 Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 19:25:37 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All Does anyone know the permability and spec of 3c85 material? I cannot find this info in any of my tech info books. The T200 series seem very low like u10 powdered iron whereas the 3c5 ferrite type are as high as u7000 Seems important to get the right mix g3kev From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3090 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 10:25:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 10:25:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 20303 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 10:27:58 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 10:27:58 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OGsd-0002AV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 10:22:19 +0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from dargolad.esoterica.pt ([195.22.0.27]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OGsc-0002AQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 10:22:18 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from ea.esoterica.pt (ea.esoterica.pt [195.22.0.204]) by dargolad.esoterica.pt (8.11.2/8.11.2) with ESMTP id f11AM3I22521 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:22:03 GMT Received: from slave2 (por006.esoterica.pt [195.22.5.6]) by ea.esoterica.pt (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA01103 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 10:22:03 GMT Message-ID: <3.0.5.32.20010201102225.007c6a10@pop3.esoterica.pt> X-Sender: brian@pop3.esoterica.pt X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.5 (32) Date: Thu, 01 Feb 2001 10:22:25 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Brian Rogerson" Subject: LF: Overnight Spectrogram MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To all, Last night I returned to monitoring the 136 band and CFH. At 0500 the signal was -55dBm and at 0700 was -53dBm in 20 Hz on 137.040KHz. The dawn noise reduction is there as usual. As discussed by others I have convinced myself that there is more than one element to this reduction. I have heard more than once what has to be a man controlled switch off may be lighting or other noisy loads running on off peak? The gram is on my web page. 73, Brian 73 Brian CT1DRP IN51QD 41 09 58N 08 39 11W http://homepage.esoterica.pt/~brian From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4339 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 09:03:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 09:03:18 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Received: (qmail 28406 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 09:06:55 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 09:06:55 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OFa1-0001m3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 08:59:01 +0000 Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OFa0-0001ly-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 08:59:01 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 14OFZn-000MAt-0C for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 08:58:47 +0000 Message-ID: <7HuEUJAI7Ee6MwWQ@telemetry.demon.co.uk> Date: Wed, 31 Jan 2001 17:43:36 +0000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: Re: LF: RE: Jim's beacon In-reply-to: <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D7584@pdw-mail-1.dera.gov.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Yes, that's a thought because I think Laurie was testing as well last night and he is about the same strength as Jim with me. A very low frequency heterodyne. In message <65AECDF1F89AD411900400508BFC869F0D7584@pdw-mail- 1.dera.gov.uk>, Talbot Andrew writes >Someone else transmitting a couple of Hz off frequency ? >'JNT From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3804 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 08:49:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 08:49:41 -0000 Received: (qmail 25052 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 08:52:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 08:52:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OFLf-0001hb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 08:44:11 +0000 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] helo=zetnet.co.uk ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OFLe-0001hL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 08:44:10 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer (man-014.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.41.17]) by zetnet.co.uk (8.11.2/8.11.2/Debian 8.11.2-1) with SMTP id f118hpS22084 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 08:43:52 GMT Message-ID: <005401c08c2b$9b3380a0$1129f7c2@oemcomputer> From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <003201c0197e$a4955e40$57d725c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de><003701c02a05$847f1d20$aa14b28f@w8k3f0> <3A774FE6.CF537646@virgin.net> Subject: Re: LF: S-meter standard Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 08:30:04 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: M.J.Powell To: Sent: Wednesday, January 31, 2001 4:33 PM Subject: Re: LF: S-meter standard > In message <3A774FE6.CF537646@virgin.net>, Stewart Bryant > writes > > Why do the manufacturers still bother with S units. Why don't > > receivers just > > measure dBuV or dBm at the antenna? > > Because that would mean equalising the gain exactly over the whole > range. Expensive. The WJ1000 does though. > The RC411 did. 73 de John Rabson G3PAI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4415 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 08:01:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 08:01:54 -0000 Received: (qmail 4705 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 08:05:31 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 08:05:31 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OEc3-0001RC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 07:57:03 +0000 Received: from tlvsca.vim.tlt.alcatel.it ([194.243.74.245]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14OEbz-0001R7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 07:57:00 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from tlvk7v (tlvk7v.vim.tlt.alcatel.it [151.98.40.9]) by tlvsca.vim.tlt.alcatel.it (8.9.3+Sun/8.9.3) with SMTP id IAA03505 for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 08:55:14 +0100 (MET) Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 08:21:30 +0100 From: "Claudio Girardi" Subject: LF: EHT transformer cores To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Mailer: Z-Mail Pro 6.2, NetManage Inc. [ZM62_16H] X-Priority: 3 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Jim and all the LF group, I've actually used some core of TV EHT transformer for the output transformer of amplifiers in the 300-500W range and they performed weel indeed; one of these had the two halves glued together so there was no way to modify the gap, while in the others I removed only one of the thin plastic spacers. I didn't try removing both since the inductance I obtained was enough 8-). One of the cores was marked with a code like 3C...something that resembled a ferrite grade code, but I don't remember exactly all the numbers. Anyway, as Andy said, there is no substitute for trying... 73 and GL de Claudio, IN3OTD -- http://www.qsl.net/in3otd > The ferrite cores used in TV EHT line output transformers use > similar materials to the SMPSU transformers - they operate at a > lower frequency, so some might be more lossy, you will just have > to try. The type with a metal clip are handy to wind cables round for > RFI supression, but they are a slightly awkward shape for making a > transformer with. Make sure you remove any thin plastic film > spacers from the joining surfaces before using; the 'air gap' is good > for an energy storage inductor, but not a transformer. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6389 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 06:43:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO warrior-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.227) by 10.226.25.101 with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 06:43:27 -0000 Received: (qmail 7349 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 06:47:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by warrior with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 06:47:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14ODMT-00017G-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 06:36:53 +0000 Received: from [194.73.73.176] (helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14ODMS-00017B-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 06:36:52 +0000 Received: from [213.122.173.83] (helo=dave) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 3.03 #83) id 14ODME-00009a-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 06:36:39 +0000 Message-ID: <000601c08c19$9d9a9ac0$53ad7ad5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <003201c0197e$a4955e40$57d725c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de> <003701c02a05$847f1d20$aa14b28f@w8k3f0> <3A774FE6.CF537646@virgin.net> Subject: Re: LF: S-meter standard Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 06:37:41 -0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.50.4133.2400 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Stewart Bryant wrote: >Why do the manufacturers still bother with S units. Why don't receivers just >measure dBuV or dBm at the antenna? This may be fine for technical specs etc but most of us would far rather send 599 in a qso than 'your are 1.34dBuV'. The s meter scale is an admirable shorthand and should be maintained. 73s Dave dsergeant@btinternet.com dsergeant@iee.org http://www.btinternet.com/~dsergeant From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26634 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 00:24:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO murphys-inbound.servers.plus.net) (212.159.14.225) by extortion.plus.net with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 00:24:07 -0000 Received: (qmail 5826 invoked from network); 1 Feb 2001 00:26:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by murphys with SMTP; 1 Feb 2001 00:26:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14O7TX-0007vA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 00:19:47 +0000 Received: from fep03.swip.net ([130.244.199.131] helo=fep03-svc.swip.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.16 #1) id 14O7TV-0007v3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 01 Feb 2001 00:19:46 +0000 Received: from oemcomputer ([212.151.111.109]) by fep03-svc.swip.net (InterMail vM.5.01.01.01 201-252-104) with SMTP id <20010201001902.DXIO2738.fep03-svc.swip.net@oemcomputer> for ; Thu, 1 Feb 2001 01:19:02 +0100 Message-ID: <002701c08be4$aa217e60$6d6f97d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Spectrogram 6.0.1 Date: Thu, 1 Feb 2001 01:19:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, FYI: Richard Horne has released Spectrogram 6.0.1. Now $25 shareware :-( http://www.monumental.com/rshorne/gram.html 73 Johan SM6LKM