From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1603 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2000 17:31:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Apr 2000 17:31:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12bRam-0005YT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 01 Apr 2000 18:21:48 +0100 Received: from mashie.force9.net ([195.166.128.30]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12bRag-0005Xy-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 01 Apr 2000 18:21:43 +0100 Received: (qmail 25277 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2000 17:22:29 -0000 Received: from ruin.servers.plus.net.uk (212.159.2.66) by mashie.force9.net with SMTP; 1 Apr 2000 17:22:29 -0000 Received: (qmail 6331 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2000 17:22:10 -0000 Received: from 241.03-03.quay.dial.plus.net.uk (HELO main) (212.159.74.241) by ruin.servers.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Apr 2000 17:22:10 -0000 Message-ID: <006601bf9bff$71e593e0$0600a8c0@main> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: 73k crossbands. Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 18:26:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all. I will call CQ using normal CW on 72.100kHz on Sunday morning from 0800utc listening on 73k band, 136.5 to 137.5 and 7022kHz +/- QRM. Please give me a long call if you hear me because it takes time to check all the frequencies! 73. Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21588 invoked from network); 1 Apr 2000 22:56:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 1 Apr 2000 22:56:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12bWcs-000602-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 01 Apr 2000 23:44:18 +0100 Received: from ds-img-3.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.136] helo=spdmgaac.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12bWcm-0005xO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 01 Apr 2000 23:44:13 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id RAA11944 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 1 Apr 2000 17:43:29 -0500 (EST) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Sat, 1 Apr 2000 17:42:49 -0500 From: "Prof R. Jennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: The Haves and Have Nots. To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200004011742_MC2-9F86-79EA@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The recent debate on very tall masts versus slow digital signal processing was quite amusing and yet slightly disturbing. The cost factors involved on both sides were never mentioned and the assumption seems to be that everyone has a digital computer, lots of spare cash and/or no local planning restrictions. It is also notable that, in the recent suggestions for partitioning the bottom end of the 73 kHz band, those using very slow morse proposed grabbing all the best 50 Hz slots for themselves and relegated manual morse to the worst spot at the bottom of the band, a remarkable sense of priority which is not in keeping with equity or with the better ability of digital integration to overide background noise and QRM. It is very questionable if infra-slow morse should rank for dx records for transmission but could possibly be credited in a special category of reception. If the the slightest signal reaches the receiver it is possible, given enough time, and a little ingenuity, to pull it through. The very first radar moon echoes were detected in the presence of background noise and interference by gating the received signals into echo times centred around two and a half seconds and using very long integration achieved by measuring the relative quantity of gas released from an electrolite in a half hour period - that sounds like real ham radio but it is true! (the experiment was performed by the Hungarian, Z. Bay, c1950). Roger, G2AJV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2067 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2000 09:03:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Apr 2000 09:03:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12bg9n-00003c-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 02 Apr 2000 09:54:55 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from web2003.mail.yahoo.com ([128.11.68.203]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12bg9l-000034-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 02 Apr 2000 09:54:53 +0100 Received: (qmail 1171 invoked by uid 60001); 2 Apr 2000 08:54:39 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <20000402085439.1170.qmail@web2003.mail.yahoo.com> Received: from [212.139.149.148] by web2003.mail.yahoo.com; Sun, 02 Apr 2000 00:54:39 PST Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 00:54:39 -0800 (PST) From: "Anthony Stokes" Subject: LF: DJ9IE strongest yet ! To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: circa 08.30 UTC on 136khz normal speed CW, heard DJ9IE at solid 579 here in JO01DO 30km east of London. In ~ 2 years listening on 136khz this is the best signal to noise ratio and signal strength ever heard from Germany on 136khz. Excellent signal ! Very good sig from ON6ND, about 569, around 0850 UTC on similar frequency. Probably best signal heard from Belgium in ~ 2 years. No change in rig here. TS690 with 250Hz crystal filter, and 63 metre end fed 'long' wire. 73s de tony.stokes@newscientist.net (G3ZRH) __________________________________________________ Do You Yahoo!? Talk to your friends online with Yahoo! Messenger. http://im.yahoo.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8949 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2000 10:17:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Apr 2000 10:17:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12bhLr-0006AE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 02 Apr 2000 11:11:27 +0100 Received: from mailout05.sul.t-online.de ([194.25.134.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12bhLm-00069N-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 02 Apr 2000 11:11:22 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fwd01.sul.t-online.de by mailout05.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 12bhLa-0002MR-03; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 12:11:10 +0200 Received: from (0607144537-0001@[193.159.117.151]) by fwd01.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 12bhLS-05v6I4C; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 12:11:02 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "bernd grupe" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: DFCW X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 12:11:02 +0200 Message-ID: <12bhLS-05v6I4C@fwd01.sul.t-online.de> X-Sender: 0607144537-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Mike, tnx for fb qso at 0710 Z on Sunday morning (Apr. 02.00). I 'hd just aktivated my TRX when your sigs came with good O. Was running 20 watts pp in my marconi aerial. Distance is 666 km. DFCW with homemade trx "LF1" and software written with Delphi 4(documented on my website). 73 cu Bernd, DF8ZR ______________________________________________________ http://home.t-online.de/home/Bernd.Grupe/homepage.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3585 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2000 11:08:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Apr 2000 11:08:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12bi9T-0006uC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 02 Apr 2000 12:02:43 +0100 Received: from mb09.swip.net ([193.12.122.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12bi9L-0006sf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 02 Apr 2000 12:02:35 +0100 Received: from win95 (d212-151-57-96.swipnet.se [212.151.57.96]) by mb09.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id NAA07338 for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 13:02:08 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <000b01bf9c93$532ac260$603997d4@win95.swipnet.se> From: "C Andersson" To: "RSGB LF group" Subject: LF: New FS measurements Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 13:05:13 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LF group, I just want to share my last findings in the chase of "the missing dB's". Yesterday I changed the antenna ground plane and added 10x6 m chicken wire around the antenna base plus 12 radials 20-25 m each. The chicken wire was solderable with a 300W soldering iron. The feed impedance went down from 25 to 22 ohm. Not very much difference. I have not used radials before, just a 8 m steel pipe + a various other ground connections in parallel. Today's measurements however show a noticeable improvement of 1,6-2 dB (with the same antenna current). Now, after all, the estimated ERP seems to correspond with measured values. Interesting that the ground plane in some way improves the far field signal. (BTW, the cost/improvement factor is 400 SEK/dB + 5 working hours. (400SEK=46 USD)) More details on my home page: http://home5.swipnet.se/~w-54761/fs.htm 73 Christer sm6pxj From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20391 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2000 18:04:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Apr 2000 18:04:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12boYs-0001iJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 02 Apr 2000 18:53:22 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12boYq-0001hd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 02 Apr 2000 18:53:21 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from as32-s15-148-133.cwci.net ([195.44.148.133] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12boYZ-000374-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 02 Apr 2000 17:53:04 +0000 Message-ID: <38E77A9D.48F8506F@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 02 Apr 2000 16:51:41 +0000 From: "g3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: have or have not Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: It was nice to hear some constructive observations about various items from a Professor and radio amateur in a recent message. A good 100 ft strumech telescopic and tilt over tower costs over £2000 but it is a good investment for a radio amateur or a commercial operator. It lasts for a lifetime and if redundant fetches a good second hand price. Some transceivers cost more than this but seldom get a mention so why single out antenna masts. Those with expensive transceivers seldom do them justice because the antennas used are generally very poor, ie the proverbial G5RV dangling just above the ground. Probably the most important factor on a radio station is the antenna which often attracts the minimum attention. If one is not inclined to launch into commercial masts, it is not hard to stack 2 x 20 ft scaffold poles for a respectable 40 ft hight and the cost is minimal. How many do this !!!!!!! I have erected this system single handed in the past and out on field days. Years ago before television it was a common sight to see a long vertical pole of some sort in every garden to optimise reception, so its nothing new but most seem to have taken a dislike to this today. They seem to favour the monstrosity of TV and FM antennas plus satellite dishes strewn across the skyline on every chimney. A good high vertical takes up very little room, is less unsightly and does wonders both on tx and rx for a radio amateur. When you point this fact out to the local planning department they find it hard to refuse an application to erect a good sized antenna for radio amateur purposes. Have not heard you Roger for a long time on 136 khz. Hope you have not given up!!!! DE G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12875 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2000 21:55:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Apr 2000 21:55:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12bsDX-0003fj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 02 Apr 2000 22:47:35 +0100 Received: from tantalum.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.80]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12bsDR-0003eT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 02 Apr 2000 22:47:30 +0100 Received: from [213.1.113.35] (helo=default) by tantalum.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12bs50-0003fb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 22:38:47 +0100 Message-ID: <000301bf9ceb$f10a60a0$237101d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots for 1/2nd April at GB7DXM Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 22:32:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All.....Well I suppose there had to be one Joker in the pack this week-end!! I'll leave you to take the appropriate entry with a pinch of (bath) salt!! Saturday...no action ...family taxi service. Sunday 0720z DF8ZR getting an 'O' from Mike G3XDV... Mike seemed stronger than ever this morning reading 30dB S/N on FFTDSP4 rather than the usual 25ish. DF8ZR was 'O' here on 'gram but only T on FFTDSP4 HB2ASB CQ this was a little later I didn't note the time but during Mike's qso. 2110z ON4ZK giving a 'T' to DL7YA (the latter not seen here) Hand speed CW 0912z DL1SAN being called by Laurie G3AQC (137.73 )and another station. Sorry Wolf I could not hear you here, I think there was a slight sign of a trace on the FFTDSP waterfall, but the loop was a little too far to the north. Laurie called several times. A sunny slot in the weather was then too good to miss....exit to garden. I haven't heard anyone working LA yet ...are the boys playing 'hard-to-get'? The local Cluster was rebooted late in the week so the mid-week spots are missing, hopefully they will appear in the batch from Wolf. One advantage this week was the lack of duplicates from the internet site, and the lack of top-band Stateside chat at 1800. 136.4 DJ1ZB 2-Apr-2000 0857Z cq 559 136.8 PA0BWL 2-Apr-2000 0855Z cq 559 137.1 OK1MRS 2-Apr-2000 0847Z cq 539 136.7 SM6PXJ 2-Apr-2000 0839Z cq 439 136.5 DJ9IE 2-Apr-2000 0837Z cq 559 136.3 G3KEV 2-Apr-2000 0822Z cq 449 136.8 DJ2EY 2-Apr-2000 0752Z 579 cq 136.6 DJ9IE 1-Apr-2000 1932Z 539 cq 136.5 DK9DX 1-Apr-2000 1404Z 549 qso with pa0bwl 539 137.3 DJ7RD 1-Apr-2000 1358Z 569 in qso with dk5pt 559 137.0 VK0MM 1-Apr-2000 1104Z Cq Cq Europe 136.6 DK6NI 1-Apr-2000 1057Z 559 cq 136.6 DK5PT 1-Apr-2000 1004Z 539 in qso with pa0bwl 429 136.6 DJ9IE 1-Apr-2000 0904Z 539 cq 136.8 OZ8NJ 1-Apr-2000 0903Z 439 136.4 DJ6FU 31-Mar-2000 1630Z 539 cq 136.4 G3KEV 31-Mar-2000 1559Z 439 cq G3NYK de GB7DXM 2-Apr 2104Z > 1800.0 PA0BWL 2-Apr-2000 0857Z 136.9 Khz CQ 1800.0 PA0BWL 31-Mar-2000 2228Z 137khz 339 1800.0 DL3FDO 31-Mar-2000 2221Z 137khz G3NYK de GB7DXM 2-Apr 2105Z > 73 de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27209 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2000 22:08:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 2 Apr 2000 22:08:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12bsQV-0006Q7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 02 Apr 2000 23:00:59 +0100 Received: from gidora.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.25]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12bsQR-0006Og-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 02 Apr 2000 23:00:55 +0100 Received: (qmail 1410 invoked from network); 2 Apr 2000 22:00:30 -0000 Received: from ppp189.dyn144.pacific.net.au (HELO steve) (210.23.144.189) by gidora.zeta.org.au with SMTP; 2 Apr 2000 22:00:30 -0000 Message-ID: <003f01bf9cee$e689c000$0301a8c0@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <2000032922075768199@zetnet.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Re: Fast CW and big antennas... Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 08:00:31 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G'day All, Once again, thanks to all that have replied directly. I'm sorry but I can't reply to you all directly because of time restrictions. I must admit to be a little stirred up as it has become apparent from some of the direct contacts to me that there are a significant number of potential operators out there who are intimidated by the disparaging remarks about modest installations to such an extent that they are discouraged from entering the LF area of operation. Be reassured that there is a silent majority out there that will encourage you no matter how small your installation is. The LF bands are NOT DXCC bands or an arena for seeing who has the biggest this or that - it is, in most countries, allocated as an EXPERIMENTAL band. That is why you can use modes on LF which are not allowed in some countries on the HF bands (so I am told). As for the assertion about relative costs for masts and transceivers. I obviously am not in the same monetary class as those who would say that a tower costing over £2000 (over $5300 Aus) is an option. I do have a modern transceiver which cost me nearly $3000 Aus but I saved for a long time (a long time and much talking and justification with the XYL) for this, but it gives me access to all bands to 70cm (including LF receive). Another contribution carries the implication that those who are keen to engage in DSP should remember that not everyone has a PC. Well, over here a PC capable of running Spectrogram (and other things - logging, antenna analysis, etc) will cost you less than $500 - one tenth the cost of the suggested tower from the other contribution. So to those that are thinking about getting on the air on LF - DON'T be put off by the fear that your activity will viewed as not worth the bother. The reason we have been granted the privilege of using these LF frequencies is for experimentation (nowhere in the submissions for access to LF to the relevant regulatory bodies will you find the purpose as being for DXCC, biggest antennas or CW skills - but you will find the words experimentation and investigation) and so if you want to experiment with a 6m pole and are thrilled to make it over a 30km path - go do it!! If you do something different from the accepted 'norm' then it could be argued that you have made more of a contribution above what can be just copied from commercial installations. If we just strive to mimic commercial installations what is the point? How can we argue with our regulatory authorities that we are worthy of access to LF if they see that we are just re-inventing the wheel? Finally, to those of you that emailed me with indications of being discouraged because of the modesty of their installations, I can re-assure you that there IS a silent majority out there whose LF capabilities range from the very modest to the top-most capability whose motivation is one of the pure thrill of the challenge (whether 10km or 2000km) and are competing with the physics, etc, not each other. So in summary, there are plenty of us who just want to have a free exchange of ideas while just a few want to mass debate :-) Regards Steve Olney VK2ZTO (P.S. I was going to add more letters here, eg., two Degrees and one Diploma, but I didn't want to appear to be a wanker, and they are totally irrelevant to Amateur activities anyway :-) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21472 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2000 00:35:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Apr 2000 00:35:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12buhW-0001LQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 01:26:42 +0100 Received: from snowball-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.116] helo=snowball.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12buhU-0001Fg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 01:26:40 +0100 Received: from magic.excite.com ([199.172.148.161]) by bucky.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20000402182317.BWFT1508.bucky.excite.com@magic.excite.com> for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 11:23:17 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3251476.954699797297.JavaMail.imail@magic.excite.com> Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 11:23:17 -0700 (PDT) From: "john sexton" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: DJ9IE strongest yet ! MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 62.7.187.109 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Tony and All, DJ9IE is certainly putting out a good signal, but he seems to have great difficulty in hearing any of the numerous responses. He has been on calling CQ most of this week using what sounds like an automatic keyer or perhaps just a very good fist. This morning he was calling CQ around 08.45 and I heard Bob, G8RW, return his call about 09.00 local time. They did manage a QSO mostly because of Bob's persistence, but Uli only gave him 3,2,9, whereas Bob gave Uli 5,8,9. He was a good 5,7,9 here with me in Reading. It would be interesting to know why the lack of reciprocity - perhaps Uli is using a different Antenna for receive? John, G4CNN, IO91ML _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3081 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2000 01:36:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Apr 2000 01:36:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12bvhZ-00059t-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 02:30:49 +0100 Received: from imo13.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12bvhX-00052g-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 02:30:47 +0100 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo13.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id l.4b.2562981 (6963) for ; Sun, 2 Apr 2000 21:29:59 -0400 (EDT) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <4b.2562981.26194e17@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 2 Apr 2000 21:29:59 EDT Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: Fast CW and big antennas... To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 3.0 16-bit for Windows sub 70 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 00-04-02 18:06:25 EDT, Steve writes: << If we just strive to mimic commercial installations what is the point? >> This is certainly a legitimate concern, but I wonder if the nature of the debate isn't being overstated. There may be a few folks who say it's all not worthwhile unless we can do it to commercial standards, but I think most of us who haunt the LF bands know that's seldom practical. (Please, don't pigeonhole me in any "silent majority" category, though! That still has uncomfortable political connotations over here.) American LF enthusiasts don't fit the stereotype of the "California Kilowatt" amateur. Living where we remain stuck with the limits one watt DC input and 15 metres of total antenna and transmission line, we fully appreciate what Steve says about experimenters "whose motivation is one of the pure thrill of the challenge (whether 10km or 2000km) and are competing with the physics, etc, not each other." That's been us all along, and I hope it always will be. However, I would argue the other side of the coin to this extent: If we choose to ignore commercial practice, what is the point? Seems to me _that_ constitutes reinventing the wheel. Wouldn't it be better to understand the wheel first, then try to improve upon it within our practical limitations? 73, John KD4IDY From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17062 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2000 04:22:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Apr 2000 04:22:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12byEt-0006WG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 05:13:23 +0100 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12byEn-0006V2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 05:13:18 +0100 Received: from steve (ppp189.dyn144.pacific.net.au [210.23.144.189]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id OAA29613 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 14:13:00 +1000 Message-ID: <001501bf9d22$f52736e0$0301a8c0@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4b.2562981.26194e17@aol.com> Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: Fast CW and big antennas... Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 14:13:19 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G'day John, I got a little excited and pressed the send button before I had added the following... The reference to "re-inventing the wheel" actually came from conversations with our regulatory authorities when I was trying to convince them to grant me an experimental licence. (Over here in VK land we have to make individual submission for a Scientific Assigned Licence to operate on LF). That was the counter argument put forward by a representative of the regulatory authority. He said there was no justification for granting an experimental licence as I hadn't shown that any NEW work was to be attempted and the area was completely covered by the commercial enterprises. It was only when I pointed out that I wanted to conduct narrowband experiments which were not existing in the commercial world (I leave NASA out of this!!!) that I was granted an experimental licence (after forking out $400 Aus for the privilege - which hurt a great deal!!!). Anyway, I am sure that everyone (of both views) is sick of me pratting on about this. I think we all want to get back to the business of exchanging views without fear of belittlement and in a spirit of encouragement no matter how modest each of our efforts are. I know I sure do!!! 73s Steve Olney (VK2ZTO/AXSO - QF56IK : Lat -33 34 07, Long +150 44 40) ============================================= HomePage URLs: http://www.qsl.net/vk2zto http://www.zeta.org.au/~ollaneg Containing:- Laser Comms DX LF Experimentation Amateur Radio Astronomy ============================================= From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21796 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2000 05:01:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Apr 2000 05:01:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12bytb-00065z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 05:55:27 +0100 Received: from mb09.swip.net ([193.12.122.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12bytX-00064q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 05:55:23 +0100 Received: from win95 (d212-151-85-35.swipnet.se [212.151.85.35]) by mb09.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id GAA25514 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 06:54:55 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <002a01bf9d29$2f96dfa0$235597d4@win95.swipnet.se> From: "C Andersson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: SV: DX Cluster spots for 1/2nd April at GB7DXM Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 06:57:58 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >I haven't heard anyone working LA yet ...are the boys playing 'hard-to-get'? I heard LA1K last thursday (000330) at 20.30z and called him a few times with no success. Maybe there is some receiving difficulties. 73 Christer sm6pxj From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 809 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2000 07:53:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Apr 2000 07:53:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12c1Zt-0008Cb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 08:47:17 +0100 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12c1Zn-00082v-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 08:47:12 +0100 Received: from [202.27.178.139] by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <20000403074622.BTKV17040128.mta1-rme@[202.27.178.139]> for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 19:46:22 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <38E84B87.5908@xtra.co.nz> Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 19:43:03 +1200 From: "vernall" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: New FS measurements References: <000b01bf9c93$532ac260$603997d4@win95.swipnet.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: C Andersson wrote: > > Hello LF group, > > I just want to share my last findings in the chase of "the missing dB's". > Yesterday I changed the antenna ground plane and added 10x6 m chicken wire around the antenna base plus 12 radials 20-25 m each. The chicken wire was solderable with a 300W soldering iron. > The feed impedance went down from 25 to 22 ohm. Not very much difference. If you (re)match for the same applied power, the gain by having lower loop resistance is 20log(R1/R2). Your data indicates a gain of +0.7 dB from resistance ratio. > I have not used radials before, just a 8 m steel pipe + a various other ground connections in parallel. > Today's measurements however show a noticeable improvement of 1,6-2 dB (with the same antenna current). So the actual improvement is more than resistance ratio. For the same applied power, you should also get more current still by rematching to 22 ohms. So there is an additional gain (the 0.7 dB from resistance decrement ratio?) > Now, after all, the estimated ERP seems to correspond with measured values. > Interesting that the ground plane in some way improves the far field signal. Perhaps an explanation is in relation to CURRENT DENSITY near the base of the antenna. Lowering the loss to a surface sheet of current around the base of the vertical is where "copper plating" can be a rewarding improvement? 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8392 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2000 08:32:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Apr 2000 08:32:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12c2As-0007rS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 09:25:30 +0100 Received: from ghosthost.radar.no ([194.143.115.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12c2Ap-0007ow-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 09:25:28 +0100 Received: from radar.no (dhcp-95.radar.no [194.143.115.95]) by ghosthost.radar.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA06054 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 10:25:10 +0200 X-Priority: 3 Message-ID: <38E85528.E53CAB0D@radar.no> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 10:24:08 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Magne_M=E6hre?= X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: SV: DX Cluster spots for 1/2nd April at GB7DXM References: <002a01bf9d29$2f96dfa0$235597d4@win95.swipnet.se> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: C Andersson wrote: > > >I haven't heard anyone working LA yet ...are the boys playing 'hard-to-get'? > > I heard LA1K last thursday (000330) at 20.30z and called him a few times with no success. > Maybe there is some receiving difficulties. I've been transmitting a couple of evenings last week, but has so far not heard anyone but the 7S6 (which I received loud and clear on a 160m dipole). The current antenna is much better though (as measured against the commercial stations). I'm kinda puzzled by the fact that I haven't heard anyone. I better re-run my calculations, as the ones I did would indicate that at least the 7-10 of you should be well within the limits. Current antenna is an inverted L with 12 meter vertical and 150 meter horizontal legs. The horizontal slopes from 25-30 meters down to about 15 meters above ground. I'll be putting up some photos and station details at the website this week.. (URL:http://la1k.samfundet.no/) --Magne / LA1BFA / LA1K From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25962 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2000 08:44:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Apr 2000 08:44:23 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12c2My-0001sj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 09:38:00 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12c2Mv-0001rf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 09:37:58 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA126196 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 10:37:44 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000403103420.2d9f9730@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 10:34:20 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: DJ9IE strongest yet ! In-reply-to: <3251476.954699797297.JavaMail.imail@magic.excite.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I think that Uli, as several other DL's, is a victim of the 'Rhein-Main Syndrome' : due the the high concentration of high-power LF stations in that area the noiselevel seems to be extremely high and even the best receivers seem to suffer from IM. I noticed the same with DL3FDO, DJ1RL, DF2PY etc.. To make it worse (for the others) groundconductivity etc. seems to be very favorable,so they put put strong LF signal (and maybe for the same reason many commercial LF stations are in that area). 73, Rik At 11:23 2/04/00 -0700, you wrote: >Hi Tony and All, > >DJ9IE is certainly putting out a good signal, but he seems to have great >difficulty in hearing any of the numerous responses. >He has been on calling CQ most of this week using what sounds like an >automatic keyer or perhaps just a very good fist. >This morning he was calling CQ around 08.45 and I heard Bob, G8RW, return >his call about 09.00 local time. They did manage a QSO mostly because of >Bob's persistence, but Uli only gave him 3,2,9, whereas Bob gave Uli 5,8,9. >He was a good 5,7,9 here with me in Reading. >It would be interesting to know why the lack of reciprocity - perhaps Uli is >using a different Antenna for receive? > >John, G4CNN, IO91ML > > > > > > >_______________________________________________________ >Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite >Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15142 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2000 08:57:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Apr 2000 08:57:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12c2YJ-0004AH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 09:49:43 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12c2YH-00049I-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 09:49:41 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA17390 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 10:49:25 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000403104601.2e7ff1b2@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 10:46:01 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: New FS measurements In-reply-to: <38E84B87.5908@xtra.co.nz> References: <000b01bf9c93$532ac260$603997d4@win95.swipnet.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >If you (re)match for the same applied power, the gain by having lower >loop resistance is 20log(R1/R2). Your data indicates a gain of +0.7 dB >from resistance ratio. I think it should be 10log(R1/R2) : Assume you put 100W into 100 Ohm, this gives a current of 1A. If you reduce the loss to 50 Ohm (and still put 100W into it) the current rises to 1.42A, not 2A ! So reducing R from 25 to 22 Ohm is (theoretically) only 0.56dB gain, but I am willing to believe Christer if he noticed a higher gain. I had a similar experience when I added and 'elevated' loading coil to my LF antenna a few months ago. Calculations (and simulations on PC) predicted a gain of about 0.3dB, but reports and field measurements gave about 5dB. So calculations are OK (and often very helpfull), but never rely blindly on them. Or as they say in German : 'probieren geht über studieren' 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2051 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2000 09:07:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by 212.159.2.34 with SMTP; 3 Apr 2000 09:07:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12c2eY-0005fF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 09:56:10 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12c2eV-0005ee-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 09:56:07 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA121276 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 10:55:54 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000403105229.2e571784@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 10:52:29 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: SV: DX Cluster spots for 1/2nd April at GB7DXM In-reply-to: <38E85528.E53CAB0D@radar.no> References: <002a01bf9d29$2f96dfa0$235597d4@win95.swipnet.se> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Magne, Is it possible for you to have some announced test transmisions this week (during evenings and/or mornings). If we know when (and on what frequency) you will be transmitting I am sure that many stations will listen for you and report back via the reflector. 73, Rik ON7YD >I've been transmitting a couple of evenings last week, but has so far >not heard anyone but the 7S6 (which I received loud and clear on a >160m dipole). The current antenna is much better though (as measured >against the commercial stations). I'm kinda puzzled by the fact that >I haven't heard anyone. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11726 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2000 09:56:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Apr 2000 09:56:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12c3Sm-00073f-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 10:48:04 +0100 Received: from [195.84.240.90] (helo=mail.westerstrand.se) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12c3Sj-00072g-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 10:48:02 +0100 Received: from can.westerstrand.se ([192.168.1.67]) by mail.westerstrand.se (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA31257 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 11:46:42 +0200 Message-ID: <000601bf9d51$85fc9ce0$4301a8c0@can.westerstrand.se> From: "Christer Andersson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: SV: LF: New FS measurements Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 11:46:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >If you (re)match for the same applied power, the gain by having lower >loop resistance is 20log(R1/R2). Your data indicates a gain of +0.7 dB >from resistance ratio. As I wrote in my first mail, the antenna current was unchanged, i.e. the TX power was somewhat reduced. /Christer sm6pxj From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11758 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2000 10:26:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Apr 2000 10:26:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12c3xK-0004gI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 11:19:38 +0100 Received: from ghosthost.radar.no ([194.143.115.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12c3xH-0004fR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 11:19:35 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from radar.no (dhcp-95.radar.no [194.143.115.95]) by ghosthost.radar.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA07976; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 12:19:14 +0200 Message-ID: <38E86FE3.3B7C562E@radar.no> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 12:18:11 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Magne_M=E6hre?= X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: "LA3JJA" , "LC2GAT" , "LA1K Officers" Subject: LF: Transmissions from LA1K today (was: Re: DX Cluster spots for 1/2nd April at GB7DXM) References: <002a01bf9d29$2f96dfa0$235597d4@win95.swipnet.se> <3.0.1.16.20000403105229.2e571784@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik Strobbe wrote: > > Hello Magne, > > Is it possible for you to have some announced test transmisions this week > (during evenings and/or mornings). If we know when (and on what frequency) > you will be transmitting I am sure that many stations will listen for you > and report back via the reflector. I'm not much of a "morning"-person :) (I usually get up half an hour *after* I should be at work :-) I will be QRV tonight, monday 2000-04-03 Time: 1830 UTC to 2100 UTC. Freq: 136.3 kHz Mode: A1A (normal speed) I will also try to be QRV the same time tomorrow. Local sunset is 1815 UTC, and the signals from DCF49 and others usually increase by 3-6 dB the following hour. I would be nice to get an email notice if you're planning to give it a try. I will also be "qrv" on email and telephone during the test. Phone no. to LA1K is +47 73 89 96 63. My mobile phone is +47 93 00 99 34 --Magne / LA1BFA / LA1K From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21253 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2000 10:51:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Apr 2000 10:51:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12c4LA-00019q-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 11:44:16 +0100 Received: from mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.15]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12c4L7-000136-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 11:44:13 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [202.27.181.152] by mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <20000403104325.DBVD11066814.mta4-rme@[202.27.181.152]> for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 22:43:25 +1200 Message-ID: <38E874B3.704D@xtra.co.nz> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 22:38:43 +1200 From: "vernall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: New FS measurements References: <000b01bf9c93$532ac260$603997d4@win95.swipnet.se> <3.0.1.16.20000403104601.2e7ff1b2@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik Strobbe wrote: > > >If you (re)match for the same applied power, the gain by having lower > >loop resistance is 20log(R1/R2). Your data indicates a gain of +0.7 dB > >from resistance ratio. > > I think it should be 10log(R1/R2) : Yes, I agree. I was too quick with the first reply. 73, Bob From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29286 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2000 13:53:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Apr 2000 13:53:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12c77a-0001NX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 14:42:26 +0100 Received: from helios.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12c77X-0001Mh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 14:42:23 +0100 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by helios.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 12c74Y-0003j3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 14:39:18 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <6849.200004031347@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 14:48:11 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: 73kHz Friday night X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF group, Had a nice QSO with G4GVC on 73kHz for the first time on friday night using normal CW. Also could hear G2AJV's beacon signal again - the frequency drift that I have noticed on Roger's signal before was completely absent, so his new crystal 'VFO' is working well. I would expect that we could make a QSO, and so I waited for a break in the transmission, but none came. Later on, had a cross-band QSO with G3AQC, also for the first time. The rest of the weekend was tied up with things unrelated to radio. As far as frequency use on 73kHz is concerned, while Rugby remains off-air, frequencies above 71.8 kHz are perfectly good, and have been used for all sorts of QSO. When it comes back on again, only the bottom few hundred hertz of the band will be much use for any type of operation, which is why people chose 10Hz frequency slots around 71.8kHz for slow CW, a sub-band of perhaps 50Hz in total. This leaves the bottom couple of hundred hertz (the least noisy bit when Rugby is on) for normal CW operation. As informal arrangements go, it seems to be quite a good one. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21310 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2000 16:25:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Apr 2000 16:25:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12c9XZ-0005sF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 17:17:25 +0100 Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12c9XQ-0005qp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 17:17:16 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 12c9Xb-0003pb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 17:17:27 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 17:03:14 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 17:03:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Activity report X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Been too busy to post weekend reports recently, but I have spent some time on 73kHz, and have made more QSOs in the last few weeks than in the first two years of the band being available (reason is greatly improved stations all round and new interest from mainland Eu). Last two weeks in March Inband normal CW QSOs with M0BMU, G3LDO, G3XTZ, G4GVC. Crossband QRSs contacts (73/136) with ON4ZK and PA0SE. Saw my QRSs signals on a Spectrogram sent to M0BMU by IK5ZPV. This is 1199km. Saturday 02 April Decca transmissions at the bottom of the band due to cease but they did not. (Thanks, Walter for the explanation). QRSs sked on 73kHz band with IK5ZPV (on 136kHz). After several attempts, a good signal from Valerio gave me a 'T' report but he did not see my reply. In an e-mail he reported bad storms in Italy, and more forecast for tomorrow. Also heard G4GVC (579) and G2AJV (559) on 73kHz. Sunday 02 April Another 73kHz sked with IK5ZPV but no reply. Heard G3YXM on 73kHz. On 136kHz worked DF8ZR. Exchanged 'O'/'O' reports. He was using DFCW (VCW) and this was my first QSO with someone using this mode. Although he was inaudible, his VCW transmission was fully copiable and much faster than my standard QRSs. It was a bit more difficult to decipher - I had to write down each letter - and was more prone to bumping into a Loran sideband. Distance was 666km. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2732 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2000 17:06:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Apr 2000 17:06:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cABw-0003DR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 17:59:08 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from imo-d04.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.36]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cABr-00037J-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 17:59:03 +0100 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-d04.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id l.73.22bd52f (4329) for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 12:58:14 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <73.22bd52f.261a27a6@aol.com> Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 12:58:14 EDT Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: Fast CW and big antennas... To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 102 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 4/3/00 12:17:32 AM Eastern Daylight Time, ollaneg@zeta.org.au writes: << The reference to "re-inventing the wheel" actually came from conversations with our regulatory authorities when I was trying to convince them to grant me an experimental licence. He said there was no justification for granting an experimental licence as I hadn't shown that any NEW work was to be attempted and the area was completely covered by the commercial enterprises. >> Yes, this is where an actual amateur assignment would be of great benefit. Our justification for existence is both that we advance the art of radiocommunication, and that we provide a reserve of technical skill. Only the former counts for experimental licenses, I suppose. One of the joys of being an amateur is that our experimental efforts don't have to be directed toward a single predetermined objective, but can lead us whichever way the wind blows...or the electromagnetic waves propagate. 73, John From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13586 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2000 17:53:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Apr 2000 17:53:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cAtC-0001qa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 18:43:50 +0100 Received: from merlins.plus.net.uk ([195.166.128.23] helo=merlins.force9.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cAt9-0001qV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 18:43:47 +0100 Received: (qmail 31440 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2000 17:44:46 -0000 Received: from ruin.servers.plus.net.uk (212.159.2.66) by merlins.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Apr 2000 17:44:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 22089 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2000 17:44:25 -0000 Received: from 229.03-02.quay.dial.plus.net.uk (HELO main) (212.159.70.229) by ruin.servers.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Apr 2000 17:44:25 -0000 Message-ID: <002101bf9d94$d2494100$0600a8c0@main> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: LA conditions Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 18:48:28 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all, especially Magne... I wonder if your receive conditions are preventing you from hearing signals on 136kHz? I looked on the Megapulse site today and it appears that there are two powerful 100kHz Loran-C transmitters on the Norwegian coast, one at Bo and one at Vaerlandet. If you are within 100km or so of these, they will cause a rythmic "chaka-chaka" noise on the 136 band which is hard to copy CW through. You may need to try a receiving loop antenna to null out the noise. 73, and good luck. Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20338 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2000 17:54:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Apr 2000 17:54:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cAvH-0001z8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 18:45:59 +0100 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cAvF-0001ym-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 18:45:57 +0100 Received: from [62.6.72.31] (helo=default) by gadolinium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12cAvd-0006XA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 18:46:21 +0100 Message-ID: <000201bf9d93$6e290a80$1f48063e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: extra spot from Wolf DL1SAN...and LA1K Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 10:00:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, the only extra spot from DB0MBX this week is one that was not loaded by Wolf himself. HA6PX spots HA6PC at 1520z on 30th March ....it is suggested that HA6PC is using a 700m (!!) metre antenna....so we should be hearing something over here. It looks like Magne LA1K is having some problems. Please post a schedule of your operating times if it is evenings during the week and we will all be there listening for you, Magne. It rather sounds like you have an 'undiscovered problem' still, if you are not hearing stations. It is rare for 136 to be totally devoid of signals on weekday evenings now. 73 de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20624 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2000 17:56:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Apr 2000 17:56:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cAwd-000291-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 18:47:23 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cAwc-00028v-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 18:47:22 +0100 Received: from as31-s15-146-236.cwci.net ([195.44.146.236] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cAwQ-000263-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 17:47:11 +0000 X-Priority: 3 Message-ID: <38E8CAB4.47F7F568@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 16:45:40 +0000 From: "g3kev" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: re-inventing Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: LF techniques covering every aspect have been documented over the years and while some purport to be inventing new methods they are really copying what has gone before. The broadcast industry has covered it in great depth and the various Government Agencies have also perfected the two way communications aspect especially narrow band methods. It seems the majority interested in LF do not realise this and think they are a first. Government agencies have used LITTLE and LARGE antennas, high power and low power and know all the answers, a lot of which is in the public domain. It is rumoured that fixed stations on 16 khz were communicationg with submarines under water, at a range of 3700 miles before most of us were born, and some amateurs are struggling to work a few hundred miles into continental europe on 73 and 136 khz. With the advent of 73 and 136 khz to radio amateurs it has enabled them to experiment on an individual basis but do not get frustrated with mathematics and formulae and worried how to go about it, just go to the library get the information, then go home and build it and put up the largest VERTICAL ANTENNA that you can get into your garden. You might then be able to work into the USA or Canada. It is not necessary these days especially with material available on Internet to RE-INVENT the proverbial wheel. de G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9368 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2000 17:56:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Apr 2000 17:56:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cAwa-00028l-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 18:47:20 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cAwY-00028f-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 18:47:19 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from as31-s15-146-236.cwci.net ([195.44.146.236] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cAwN-00025o-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 17:47:07 +0000 Message-ID: <38E87C1A.6180691A@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 11:10:18 +0000 From: "g3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: French connection Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Have the French gone underground on LF. Surprised nothing has developed since the last announcement of imminent activity some weeks ago. Mabye someone has an update. 73 de G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16372 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2000 17:56:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Apr 2000 17:56:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cAwY-00028d-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 18:47:18 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cAwX-00028Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 18:47:17 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from as31-s15-146-236.cwci.net ([195.44.146.236] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cAwK-00025i-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 17:47:05 +0000 Message-ID: <38E87667.D11EF3BD@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 10:46:00 +0000 From: "g3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: DJ9IE strongest yet ! References: <3251476.954699797297.JavaMail.imail@magic.excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: john sexton wrote: > Hi Tony and All, > > DJ9IE is certainly putting out a good signal, but he seems to have great > difficulty in hearing any of the numerous responses. > He has been on calling CQ most of this week using what sounds like an > automatic keyer or perhaps just a very good fist. > This morning he was calling CQ around 08.45 and I heard Bob, G8RW, return > his call about 09.00 local time. They did manage a QSO mostly because of > Bob's persistence, but Uli only gave him 3,2,9, whereas Bob gave Uli 5,8,9. > He was a good 5,7,9 here with me in Reading. > It would be interesting to know why the lack of reciprocity - perhaps Uli is > using a different Antenna for receive? He gives me 589 every time that I work him, that includes this past weekend. G3KEV > > > John, G4CNN, IO91ML > > _______________________________________________________ > Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite > Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9385 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2000 17:56:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Apr 2000 17:56:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cAwb-00028t-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 18:47:21 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cAwa-00028n-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 18:47:20 +0100 Received: from as31-s15-146-236.cwci.net ([195.44.146.236] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cAwO-00025v-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 17:47:09 +0000 Message-ID: <38E87DC0.D73432C9@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 11:17:20 +0000 From: "g3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: DJ9IE strongest yet ! References: <3.0.1.16.20000403103420.2d9f9730@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik Strobbe wrote: > I think that Uli, as several other DL's, is a victim of the 'Rhein-Main > Syndrome' : due the the high concentration of high-power LF stations in > that area the noiselevel seems to be extremely high and even the best > receivers seem to suffer from IM. I noticed the same with DL3FDO, DJ1RL, > DF2PY etc.. > To make it worse (for the others) groundconductivity etc. seems to be very > favorable,so they put put strong LF signal (and maybe for the same reason > many commercial LF stations are in that area) I work DJ9IE frequently and usually get a 589 report. His RX capability seems good to me. In fact I do not have any difficulty with any German station regardless of their QTH, but DJ9IE is by far the strongest and most consistant. de G3KEV > . > > 73, Rik > > At 11:23 2/04/00 -0700, you wrote: > >Hi Tony and All, > > > >DJ9IE is certainly putting out a good signal, but he seems to have great > >difficulty in hearing any of the numerous responses. > >He has been on calling CQ most of this week using what sounds like an > >automatic keyer or perhaps just a very good fist. > >This morning he was calling CQ around 08.45 and I heard Bob, G8RW, return > >his call about 09.00 local time. They did manage a QSO mostly because of > >Bob's persistence, but Uli only gave him 3,2,9, whereas Bob gave Uli 5,8,9. > >He was a good 5,7,9 here with me in Reading. > >It would be interesting to know why the lack of reciprocity - perhaps Uli is > >using a different Antenna for receive? > > > >John, G4CNN, IO91ML > > > > > > > > > > > > > >_______________________________________________________ > >Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite > >Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp > > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16664 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2000 18:36:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Apr 2000 18:36:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cBbg-0000sV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 19:29:48 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from ghosthost.radar.no ([194.143.115.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cBbb-0000pl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 19:29:43 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from localhost (magne@localhost) by ghosthost.radar.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11447 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:29:26 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:29:26 +0200 (CEST) From: "Magne Mahre" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: "LF Group" Subject: Re: LF: LA conditions In-reply-to: <002101bf9d94$d2494100$0600a8c0@main> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: On Mon, 3 Apr 2000, Dave wrote: > Dear all, especially Magne... > > I wonder if your receive conditions are preventing you from hearing signals > on 136kHz? I looked on the Megapulse site today and it appears that there > are two powerful 100kHz Loran-C transmitters on the Norwegian coast, one at > Bo and one at Vaerlandet. If you are within 100km or so of these, they will > cause a rythmic "chaka-chaka" noise on the 136 band which is hard to copy CW > through. You may need to try a receiving loop antenna to null out the noise. I do not currently experience problems with NELS stations on 136. Vaerlandet is about 350km SW of me, and Bo is 700 km or so to the north (Norway *is* a long country :-) Take into consideration that most of you are 1000 km away or more. Only OZ, SM and a couple of OH-stations are closer than that. --Magne From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24466 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2000 19:02:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Apr 2000 19:02:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cBzf-0004VJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 19:54:35 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from ghosthost.radar.no ([194.143.115.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cBzb-0004UN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 19:54:31 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from localhost (magne@localhost) by ghosthost.radar.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA11489 for ; Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:54:19 +0200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Mon, 3 Apr 2000 20:54:19 +0200 (CEST) From: "Magne Mahre" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: "LF Group" Subject: Re: LF: LA conditions In-reply-to: Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Unfortunately, we had to cease transmission for an hour or so due to interference (hmm, those watts :-) Is listening on 136.3 for CW (normal and slow), and will transmit if anybody is heard. Will resume tx at about 1945 UTC --Magne From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8685 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2000 21:36:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Apr 2000 21:36:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cENa-0002ov-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 22:27:26 +0100 Received: from newmail.spectraweb.ch ([194.158.230.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cENZ-0002nf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 22:27:25 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from freesurf.ch (194.230.200.111) by newmail.spectraweb.ch for ; 3 Apr 2000 23:27:11 +0200 Message-ID: <38E90CD0.DA316E8@freesurf.ch> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 03 Apr 2000 23:27:44 +0200 From: "Toni" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [de] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en-US,en-GB,fr-FR MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: re-inventing References: <38E8CAB4.47F7F568@netscapeonline.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Government agencies have used LITTLE and LARGE antennas, high > power and low power and know all the answers, I don't know what kind of super-government you have. Here they do not know all the answers. As a matter of fact they have more questions than answers (and some of them are quite crazy). And regarding power and antennas, I got the impression that they use always big power and big antennas, also in the cases when it is not necessary. > mathematics and formulae and worried how to go about it, May be some can do it without but I need the maths to understand how things are working > library get the information, Good Idea! Some of the best antenna books you find there are written by amateurs. BTW also some antenna books for the professionals. then go home and build it and put up the > largest VERTICAL ANTENNA that you can get into your garden. Ok. I think everybody got this point now. You might > then be able to work into the USA or Canada. It is not necessary these > days especially with material available on Internet Yes, thanks to lot of engaged amateurs who have written nice software, developed easy to build hardware and created articels about antennas and propagation on LF. to RE-INVENT the > proverbial wheel. Hmm, always this wheel: may be it's not necessary to re-invent it but it is fun and as far as I know not forbidden. Finally: Who is a professional and who an amateur? Was Marconi an amateur or a professional? At least here, most amateurs have also a job. And sometimes they are excellent RF engineers. As a hobby they are experimenting with microwaves or...........................LF. And sometimes it is not so clear where they get the good ideas - at work or in the leisure-time activity. Regarding me, I'm not a professional in this field, but I'm happy to learn from the professionals among us. Also via this reflector. 73 de Toni, HB2ASB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13499 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2000 22:04:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Apr 2000 22:04:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cEqL-0007CG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 22:57:09 +0100 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cEqI-0007AY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 22:57:07 +0100 Received: from steve (ppp143.dyn144.pacific.net.au [210.23.144.143]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id HAA31350 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 07:56:50 +1000 Message-ID: <005f01bf9db7$8ec7d4a0$0301a8c0@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <38E8CAB4.47F7F568@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: re-inventing Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 07:56:55 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G'day Kevin, > > LF techniques covering every aspect have been documented over the years > and while some purport to be inventing new methods they are really > copying what has gone before. > Yes, I know but it difficult to get out a signal without copying Marconi!!! Perhaps you know something we don't. Let's us know how you do it!! > The broadcast industry has covered it in > great depth and the various Government Agencies have also perfected the > two way communications aspect especially narrow band methods. > As this is easily available can you point me in the right direction so I can find information where the various Government Agencies are using narrowband methods (I have already found some NASA stuff - I am quite happy to come second to NASA!!!) I would find this most interesting. Perhaps you might put this information up on your Webpage along with your experimental work for our benefit. Could you give me your URL where I might find your site? > and some amateurs are struggling to work a > few hundred miles into continental europe on 73 and 136 khz. Good for them. It shows they are possessed with the true Amateur spirit. Better than some who confine themselves to one band (136kHz) and pontificate on the efforts of others on the other (73kHz)!!!! > library get the information, then go home and build it and put up the > largest VERTICAL ANTENNA that you can get into your garden. > You might be interested to know that the strongest signal here in VK from ZL is from Bruce Rowlings ZL1WB. He has a 1km long HORIZONTAL antenna and 50W and his signal is dBs stronger than others who are using vertical antennas following your prescription and using close to 1kW. Lucky for us he didn't trot down to the local library or see your postings. He has the great advantage of NOT being a net-surfer. >It is not necessary these > days especially with material available on Internet to RE-INVENT the > proverbial wheel. Here I must confess you have completely lost me. How is using an antenna from Marconi's day and a mode from Marconi's day NOT re-inventing the wheel, but those who are striving to try something different in antennas and modes ARE?!! I am sure there is some logic there - but I must confess it is too complex for me!! Personally, I find the work of those who have not re-invented the wheel but done something against the conventional wisdom much more interesting to read about than who has the biggest antenna. The birch tree antenna is one, the ZL horizontal antenna is another. I also get a kick out of my CHA which lies along the ground but is largely vertical (OK, so the ground is largely vertical) especially as it outperforms the vertical I can (or want to) put up amongst the forest of trees on my block. Clearing the block is not an option. It won't be blown down and cost me zero. Kindest Regards Steve VK2ZTO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25594 invoked from network); 3 Apr 2000 22:30:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 3 Apr 2000 22:30:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cFFz-0002ik-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 23:23:39 +0100 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cFFx-0002cN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 03 Apr 2000 23:23:37 +0100 Received: from [202.27.181.36] by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <20000403220323.HCIV17040128.mta1-rme@[202.27.181.36]> for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:03:23 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <38E90FC3.38DF@xtra.co.nz> Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 09:40:19 +1200 From: "vernall" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: re-inventing References: <38E8CAB4.47F7F568@netscapeonline.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: g3kev wrote: > > LF techniques covering every aspect have been documented over the years > and while some purport to be inventing new methods they are really > copying what has gone before. The broadcast industry has covered it in > great depth and the various Government Agencies have also perfected the > two way communications aspect especially narrow band methods. It seems > the majority interested in LF do not realise this and think they are a > first. Really? One of my interests in amateur radio is to have a bit of FUN using radio, including the LF bands. There are no firsts in the having of individual fun. Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9091 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2000 00:33:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Apr 2000 00:33:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cH4T-0003ks-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 01:19:53 +0100 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cH4P-0003kn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 01:19:50 +0100 Received: from steve (ppp254.dyn144.pacific.net.au [210.23.144.254]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id KAA12821 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:19:31 +1000 Message-ID: <001101bf9dcb$7fb5b540$0301a8c0@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: "RSGB LF Group" Subject: LF: S-meter readings... Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:19:42 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G'day All, I have a question about something that has puzzled me for some time now. It concerns the procedure for giving signal reports. I understand the scale for readability - no problem. The problem I have is with the the signal strength part. The R part is a relative indication - relative to QRM/QRN etc, as I understand it. But what about the S part? In the case of a receiver which at the frequency and time of the received signal has an S-meter reading where the needle is just moved off the stop in the absence of a signal - an S-meter reading of 5 on a signal would seem to warrant a report of S5. However, the same receiver which might have a preamplifier added and at the time and ferquency of the received which has a no-signal reading of say 3. If that receiver now receives a signal which moves the S-meter up to a reading of 8 - what is the appropriate report for the signal? S8 or S(8-3) = S5? It seems to me that it is possible to have a high level of noise with a small signal which is barely readable but giving a S-meter reading of 8. Isn't closer to the truth to be giving S-points above the noise or am I missing the point? 73s Steve Olney (VK2ZTO/AXSO - QF56IK : Lat -33 34 07, Long +150 44 40) ============================================= HomePage URLs: http://www.qsl.net/vk2zto http://www.zeta.org.au/~ollaneg Containing:- Laser Comms DX LF Experimentation Amateur Radio Astronomy ============================================= From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1612 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2000 05:36:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Apr 2000 05:36:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cLsO-00000I-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 06:27:44 +0100 Received: from mail2.dada.it ([195.110.96.69] helo=mail.dada.it) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cLsN-0008Ul-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 06:27:43 +0100 Received: (qmail 1292 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2000 05:27:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO cestag) (195.110.103.216) by mail.dada.it with SMTP; 4 Apr 2000 05:27:28 -0000 Message-ID: <001101bf9df6$756c2300$d8676ec3@cestag> From: "cesare tagliabue" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: R: S-meter readings... Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 07:26:49 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Steve You wrote >However, the same receiver which might have a preamplifier added and at the >time and ferquency of the received which has a no-signal reading of say 3. >If that receiver now receives a signal which moves the S-meter up to a >reading of 8 - what is the appropriate report for the signal? S8 or S(8-3) >= S5? While the S-meter reads the value of what is passing at the time trough the MF chain, if the noise is quite lower in respect to the signal (assuming 6 dB each S-point), the signal strength may be assumed correspondent to the meter reading. In the case of a noise level close to the signal level, there may be a little influence of the noise, not more than 3 dB, in reading the real value of the signal strength, but in this case is the R part of the report that may be lower than 5. All that is what I think about, other suggestions ? best 73 Cesare Cesare Tagliabue I 5 TGC e-mail: cestag@dada.it url: http://www.dadacasa.com/i5tgc - > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14302 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2000 05:50:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Apr 2000 05:50:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cM64-000285-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 06:41:52 +0100 Received: from mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.15]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cM62-00020q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 06:41:50 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [202.27.178.74] by mta4-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <20000404051059.LXQR11066814.mta4-rme@[202.27.178.74]> for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 17:10:59 +1200 Message-ID: <38E978E3.243A@xtra.co.nz> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 17:08:51 +1200 From: "vernall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: S-meter readings... References: <001101bf9dcb$7fb5b540$0301a8c0@steve> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Steve Olney wrote: > > G'day All, > > I have a question about something that has puzzled me for some time now. > It concerns the procedure for giving signal reports. I understand the > scale for readability - no problem. The problem I have is with the the > signal strength part. The R part is a relative indication - relative to > QRM/QRN etc, as I understand it. But what about the S part? > > In the case of a receiver which at the frequency and time of the received > signal has an S-meter reading where the needle is just moved off the stop in > the absence of a signal - an S-meter reading of 5 on a signal would seem to > warrant a report of S5. > > However, the same receiver which might have a preamplifier added and at the > time and ferquency of the received which has a no-signal reading of say 3. > If that receiver now receives a signal which moves the S-meter up to a > reading of 8 - what is the appropriate report for the signal? S8 or S(8-3) > = S5? > > It seems to me that it is possible to have a high level of noise with a > small signal which is barely readable but giving a S-meter reading of 8. > > Isn't closer to the truth to be giving S-points above the noise or am I > missing the point? > > 73s Steve Olney (VK2ZTO/AXSO - QF56IK : Lat -33 34 07, Long +150 44 40) Steve, Ideally one would use field strength to describe incoming signals, as field strength is independent of the antenna and receiver. However, the need for a calibrated antenna and receiver is a bit over the top for amateur operators. The antenna has a changing "k factor" with frequency. The field strength of the signal and noise could be determined. As well, most field strength meters have linear meter scales and no AGC applied to the RF or IF stages. A communications receiver usually has internal AGC, and an "S meter" that is operated by AGC voltage. A receiver with AGC can not avoid having a compressed S meter scale that is approximately logarithmic, and is an advantage if a wide range of strengths is to be displayed on a single meter scale, where accuracy is nominal. Ideally, the S meter should read S9 for 50 microvolts applied to the RF input to the receiver at the tuned frequency. Each S point below that is supposed to be -6 dB per point. On most ham gear the S meter is gratuitously known by some as a Guess Meter. Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24820 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2000 06:15:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Apr 2000 06:15:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cMWJ-0004zf-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 07:08:59 +0100 Received: from ds-img-3.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.136] helo=spdmgaac.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cMWH-0004ux-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 07:08:57 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id CAA07302 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 02:08:14 -0400 (EDT) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 02:06:27 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: S-meter readings... To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200004040206_MC2-9FCE-5D4@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Steve, when I learned for my license at the beginning of the 70ties, I still used to learn the old system for S 1 to S 9 reports to be judged by ear. And that of course depends very much on the background noise and several other factors that are completely depending on the person giving the reprot. On LF I use a level-meter so I can read the signal strength directly in dBu (0 dBu = 0.775 V). I calibrated this relative measurment using a one-meter diameter loop so that I sould be able to determine strength in dB microVolt/m within +/- 1 dB (still I am missing a couple of dB and don't know exactly why ...). As a reference I use the (constant) signal level of DCF39, so evem with a pre-amplifier or a different antenna I try to give "absolute" dBu-reports for comparison purposes. But off course, if that band is quit I can hear a station quite loed and would give it a S7 or 8 report, when the band is noisy I can barely hear a station that is 20 dB stronger, so just by ear I would give an S3 or 4 report by ear. What I try to do on LF is to give a subjective RST report plus the dBu value. Also on my homepage I list the dBu values, so at least everybody can judge how strong his signal is relative to the other stations. So I believe what you call S-units above noise comes close to the old S 1 to S 9 scale given by ear and reflects more the audible quality of the system than the absolute S-value. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) http://www.qru.de From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28357 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2000 06:16:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Apr 2000 06:16:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cMWj-00053Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 07:09:25 +0100 Received: from ds9.sci.fi ([195.74.0.54]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cMWh-000530-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 07:09:23 +0100 Received: from default (MCCXVII.rdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.137.17]) by ds9.sci.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA29249 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 09:09:11 +0300 (EET DST) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000404090946.007cfd90@pop.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: vaiski1@pop.saunalahti.fi (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 09:09:46 +0300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: LF: Signal Strength Measurements by OH2LX MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Measurements of UK Decca's and some other stations : ---------------------------------------------------------- Day ------------------ 26Mar 27Mar 28Mar 02Apr 03Apr SUN MON TUE SUN MON Time, UTC ------------ 2130- 2035- 2030- 2135- 2040- ---------------------------------------------------------- kHz Ch *d,km AZI* *Indicated ESH2 input, dBmW* ---------------------------------------------------------- 127.8 (6C), 1435, 280, -105 -101 -105 (-127) (-129) ---------------------------------------------------------- 126.7 (2A), 1565, 269, -105 -105 -108 -105 (-128) ---------------------------------------------------------- 128.5 (8E), 1766, 276, -107 -106 -105 -104 (ICMs) ---------------------------------------------------------- 127.0 (3B), 1871, 257, -105 -106 -107 (-127) (-128) ---------------------------------------------------------- 127.5 (5B), 1890, 247, -110 -104 -105 -104 (-129) ---------------------------------------------------------- 128.2 (7D), 2060, 267, -111 -120 -115 -122 -118 ---------------------------------------------------------- 126.4 (1B), 2282, 253, -114 -116 -117 (-127) (-127) ---------------------------------------------------------- kHz Ch *d,km AZI* *Indicated ESH2 input, dBmW* ---------------------------------------------------------- 128.93 ref, 1553, 228, -110!! -82 -90 -84 -83 ---------------------------------------------------------- 138.83 ref, 1221, 226, -85 -82 -81 -79 -79 ---------------------------------------------------------- 135.8 SXV 2490, 182, -109 -107 -114 Nil Nil ---------------------------------------------------------- 137.0 CFH* 5750, 295, Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil ---------------------------------------------------------- * CFH heard only on the 26th after 2152z, up to -130 dBmW ---------------------------------------------------------- 26Mar 2132: OH7OL -124 26Mar 2139: OH1BS -110..-109 26Mar 2143: DJ9IE -130; 2150: -130 27Mar 2034: OH7OL -128 27Mar 2055: SM6PXJ -120 (tack för Christer!) 28Mar 2005: SM6PXJ -116..-115 (G4GVC = -133?) 28Mar 2028: OH1BS -109 02Apr 2135: OH1BS -114 02Apr 2158: OH7OL -123 03Apr 2031: SM6PXJ -118..-117 03Apr 2112: OH1BS -112 ---------------------------------------------------------- (R&S ESH2/---- 10m coax---/1:10/---15m wire-----): Noise level with antenna: with 200Hz IF BandWidth: -26..-21 dB(uV), -133..-128dBmW (varies w qrm etc) ---------------------------------------------------------- End of message of 04 April 2000, 0610 UTC, from OH2LX ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5291 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2000 07:38:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Apr 2000 07:38:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cNnc-0001dT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 08:30:56 +0100 Received: from hermes.iol.cz ([194.228.2.36]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cNnY-0001bX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 08:30:52 +0100 Received: from dell1.cz.gmc.net ([194.228.225.18]) by hermes.iol.cz (Post.Office MTA v3.5.3 release 223 ID# 631-66640U65000L65000S0V35) with ESMTP id cz for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 09:30:03 +0200 Received: from p (p.maly.cz.gmc.net [192.168.1.35]) by dell1.cz.gmc.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id 2GABFDW9; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 09:30:50 +0200 Message-ID: <00a301bf9e07$b3b35fa0$2301a8c0@maly.cz.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly" To: "136 group" Subject: LF: OK1MRS on the band Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 09:30:50 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LFers Yesterday evening I had QSO with Vladimir, OK1MRS. It was only about 50 km, but I gave 599 (according to s-meter), received 569. OK1MRS is another active station on the band in OK land, besides OK1FIG and OK1AIK. Congrats to Vladimir for his 1st QSO. 73, Petr, OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9002 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2000 08:06:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Apr 2000 08:06:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cOFj-0006YJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 08:59:59 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cOFh-0006Xw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 08:59:57 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA182302 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 09:59:45 +0200 X-Priority: 3 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000404095619.2e7ff0d4@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 09:56:19 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: LA conditions In-reply-to: References: <002101bf9d94$d2494100$0600a8c0@main> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Magne , I looked out for you last night, but without succes. >Take into consideration that most of you are 1000 km away >or more. Only OZ, SM and a couple of OH-stations are closer >than that. Based on your locator (JP53EK) your 'best shots' should be : - SM4DHN (JP60TA) = 418km - SM6PXJ (JO68UO) = 568km - OH1TN (KP11OO) = 690km - OZ1KMR (JO45PK) = 894km - MM0ALM (IO87UA) = 998km 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17393 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2000 08:22:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Apr 2000 08:22:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cOVH-0000Yh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 09:16:03 +0100 Received: from ghosthost.radar.no ([194.143.115.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cOVE-0000Xi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 09:16:01 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from radar.no (dhcp-95.radar.no [194.143.115.95]) by ghosthost.radar.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA14662 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:15:44 +0200 Message-ID: <38E9A467.10A605EB@radar.no> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 10:14:31 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Magne_M=E6hre?= X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: LA conditions References: <002101bf9d94$d2494100$0600a8c0@main> <3.0.1.16.20000404095619.2e7ff0d4@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik Strobbe wrote: > > Hello Magne , > > I looked out for you last night, but without succes. > > > Based on your locator (JP53EK) your 'best shots' should be : > > - SM4DHN (JP60TA) = 418km > - SM6PXJ (JO68UO) = 568km > - OH1TN (KP11OO) = 690km > - OZ1KMR (JO45PK) = 894km > - MM0ALM (IO87UA) = 998km I did some tests with Christer, SM6PXJ, last night - but with no success whatsoever. So I guess it's back to the drawing board again.... I suspect the wire used in the horizontal section is not of premium quality, and will try to replace that. The current ground system is a "web" of fire sprinkler pipes (several kilometers of it, I guess). It's also connected to the building's water pipes (another kilometer, I think). I'm not sure, but I think it's the best ground I can get around here. Any comments on that? --Magne / la1bfa http://la1k.samfundet.no/ From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6430 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2000 09:24:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Apr 2000 09:24:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cPJV-00086n-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 10:07:57 +0100 Received: from fm215.facility.pipex.com ([194.131.104.225]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cPJQ-00081Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 10:07:52 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from isis (usercp25.uk.uudial.com [62.188.156.54]) by fm215.facility.pipex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21001 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:06:52 +0100 (BST) X-Priority: 3 Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000404095700.009cbd90@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 10:01:06 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: Re: LF: re-inventing In-reply-to: <38E90CD0.DA316E8@freesurf.ch> References: <38E8CAB4.47F7F568@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Toni, You said: > to RE-INVENT the > > proverbial wheel. > >Hmm, always this wheel: may be it's not necessary to re-invent it but it >is fun and as far as I know not forbidden. I'm sure if it had only just been invented it WOULD be forbidden on the grounds it might run over somebody and was therefore far too dangerous to let anybody use. See for example : GM crops. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24975 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2000 09:44:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Apr 2000 09:44:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cPkK-0003zd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 10:35:40 +0100 Received: from front1m.grolier.fr ([195.36.216.51]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cPkI-0003zY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 10:35:38 +0100 Received: from club-internet.fr (ppp-44-48-123.wmar.club-internet.fr [213.44.48.123]) by front1m.grolier.fr (8.9.3/No_Relay+No_Spam_MGC990224) with ESMTP id LAA07385 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 11:35:22 +0200 (MET DST) X-Priority: 3 Message-ID: <38E9C551.F05EEA0D@club-internet.fr> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 11:35:05 +0100 From: "M & S" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [fr] (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: fr,fr,es-ES MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: French connection References: <38E87C1A.6180691A@netscapeonline.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: No, we're not digging any holes, rather building antennas (upwards) and finishing our amplifiers. There are at least two of us: F8IPH and F6JSZ getting bits and pieces together to get 'on air'. It's just a question of time... We'll try something in a couple of weeks. 73, Mark, F6JSZ JN04PX g3kev a *crit : > > Have the French gone underground on LF. Surprised nothing has developed > since the last announcement of imminent activity some weeks ago. Mabye > someone has an update. > 73 de G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16859 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2000 13:59:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Apr 2000 13:59:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cTjz-0008TG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 14:51:35 +0100 Received: from mailout05.sul.t-online.de ([194.25.134.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cTjw-0008TB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 14:51:32 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fwd04.sul.t-online.de by mailout05.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 12cTjk-0006F3-04; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 15:51:20 +0200 Received: from (087321565-0001@[62.158.194.168]) by fwd04.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 12cTjh-0zVjIOC; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 15:51:17 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002101bf9d94$d2494100$0600a8c0@main> <3.0.1.16.20000404095619.2e7ff0d4@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <38E9A467.10A605EB@radar.no> Subject: Re: LF: LA conditions X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 15:51:17 +0200 Message-ID: <12cTjh-0zVjIOC@fwd04.sul.t-online.de> X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all, I do hope that Magne is not in the same position as a ship's operator in the harbour of Narvik. It ist known that this harbour is surrounded by mountains which effectively screen it from the sea. You can operate the alarm sign generator (preceeding the usual SOS distress call) in the harbour (to alert a colleague on another ship within the harbour, as has been done) but You will not trigger autoalarm equipment of ships outside the harbour. HW? 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB Magne Maehre schrieb: > Rik Strobbe wrote: > > > > Hello Magne , > > > > I looked out for you last night, but without succes. > > > > > > Based on your locator (JP53EK) your 'best shots' should be : > > > > - SM4DHN (JP60TA) = 418km > > - SM6PXJ (JO68UO) = 568km > > - OH1TN (KP11OO) = 690km > > - OZ1KMR (JO45PK) = 894km > > - MM0ALM (IO87UA) = 998km > > I did some tests with Christer, SM6PXJ, last night - but with > no success whatsoever. > > So I guess it's back to the drawing board again.... > > I suspect the wire used in the horizontal section is not of > premium quality, and will try to replace that. > > The current ground system is a "web" of fire sprinkler pipes > (several kilometers of it, I guess). It's also connected to > the building's water pipes (another kilometer, I think). > I'm not sure, but I think it's the best ground I can get > around here. Any comments on that? > > --Magne / la1bfa > http://la1k.samfundet.no/ > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21379 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2000 14:15:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Apr 2000 14:15:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cU0O-000018-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 15:08:32 +0100 Received: from ghosthost.radar.no ([194.143.115.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cU0N-000013-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 15:08:31 +0100 Received: from radar.no (dhcp-95.radar.no [194.143.115.95]) by ghosthost.radar.no (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA17858 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 16:08:15 +0200 X-Priority: 3 Message-ID: <38E9F704.625949C1@radar.no> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 16:07:00 +0200 From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?Magne_M=E6hre?= X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en] (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: LA conditions References: <002101bf9d94$d2494100$0600a8c0@main> <3.0.1.16.20000404095619.2e7ff0d4@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <38E9A467.10A605EB@radar.no> <12cTjh-0zVjIOC@fwd04.sul.t-online.de> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hans-Joachim Brandt wrote: > > Dear all, > > I do hope that Magne is not in the same position as a ship's operator in the > harbour of Narvik. It ist known that this harbour is surrounded by mountains > which effectively screen it from the sea. You can operate the alarm sign > generator (preceeding the usual SOS distress call) in the harbour (to alert a > colleague on another ship within the harbour, as has been done) but You will not > trigger autoalarm equipment of ships outside the harbour. Hehehe.. It's not all that bad, I can assure you... Years and years with successful aurora, meteorscatter and eme-operations have proved that. Take-off to the north is excellent, to the south I guess it's 2 degrees or so. South-east and west is worst, with about 10-13 degrees. It's no worse than that I work JP52QQ regularly (south-east, 100km) on 2m with 599 signals. So - I better look for improvements elsewhere... --Magne From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13859 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2000 15:45:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Apr 2000 15:45:11 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cVOa-0000HV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 16:37:36 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fm215.facility.pipex.com ([194.131.104.225]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cVOW-0000HM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 16:37:32 +0100 Received: from isis (userp983.uk.uudial.com [194.69.96.220]) by fm215.facility.pipex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id QAA20097 for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 16:36:34 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000404151059.009d6100@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 16:06:45 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: Decca Masts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Decca masts - latest situation. Agreement with Racal obtained. Schedule of available stations upcoming. RSGB notified; support of HF Cttee promised. Applications for possible NOV's in process. Controlling group is : Walter - G3JKV - blanch@pncl.co.uk (me) Derek - G3GRO - datter@compuserve.com Peter - G3LDO - g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Will call ourselves DMG (Decca Mast Group) for brevity. Procedure: Tell DMG : - who you are and who is major contact, - how many if a group, - whose callsign will be used, - what you want to do and why, - what equipment you will use, - preferred dates and times. DMG will : - check above and decide who if conflicts arise - arrange authorisation, admission and security details. You can either operate under one nominated callsign or try getting a special event station call. Note well : This is all being done on a goodwill basis between myself and Racal. So far I have luckily managed to avoid legal agreements, payments, insurance problems and similar aggro. However, if not played straight I will simply shut down the whole thing and we will all lose. By this I mean : Trying to use sites without DMG agreement, Exceeding licence conditions, Arguments about DMG decisions. Any foolish behaviour on site like climbing masts, etc. Disobeying instructions from Racal staff. First site to become available is Puckeridge, Herts. (325 ft mast). Electricity on site, but bring all your own equipment. Available NOW until 17th April, possibly longer. Get going! Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19118 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2000 17:27:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Apr 2000 17:27:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cX0T-0000ZL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 18:20:49 +0100 Received: from tomts2.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.140] helo=tomts2-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cX0Q-0000ZG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 18:20:46 +0100 Received: from server1 ([206.172.245.68]) by tomts2-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with SMTP id <20000404172000.CJYI1435.tomts2-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 13:20:00 -0400 Message-ID: <001801bf9e59$b1766eb0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: DMG, North Atlantic Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 13:17:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings: If any of the former DECCA sites are favourable to the North Atlantic and you are willing to try 10 wpm CW, I will alert Jack, VE1ZZ to listen during Sundown in Halifax and Sunrise in the UK. You will need to be between 137.750 kHz and 137.799 kHz to let Jack get as far as possible from CFH on 137.000. If there is a North Atlantic test from a DECCA site I will also lay out a 2500 ft Beverage optimized for Europe and 1000 ft of coax feedline with about three days notice. My receiving system has improved here over the last months. I have heard (seen) the AMRAD beacons and have also copied the LowFer signal from VE3OT, Mitch near London, Ontario. I am seeing DCF39 reliably every night that I look for it, occasional periods of static from storms to the south of me cover it up but the signal is still very visible here in Eastern Canada. The window of low noise on LF is closing fast here, if anyone can move quick to a good site please email me ASAP. If time is of the essence for your test, consider phoning me at 613 - 273-6201 and leave a voice mail if I do not answer. Best time for answering the phone is 00 utc to 04 utc or 10 utc to 11 utc. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23319 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2000 17:37:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Apr 2000 17:37:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cXAO-0000bM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 18:31:04 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cXAN-0000bH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 18:31:03 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from as21-s15-139-207.cwci.net ([195.44.139.207] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cXAA-0003l3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 17:30:50 +0000 Message-ID: <38E9AE56.AD166E26@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 08:56:54 +0000 From: "g3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: Fast CW and big antennas... References: <2000032922075768199@zetnet.co.uk> <003f01bf9cee$e689c000$0301a8c0@steve> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Steve Olney wrote: > G'day All, > Regards Steve Olney > VK2ZTO > (P.S. I was going to add more letters here, eg., two Degrees Two degrees C or F ? > and one > Diploma, but I didn't want to appear to be a wanker, Is that a type of engine, I only have the Aus two page paper back dictionary and cannot find the word. Aerial mast does not appear either the nearest I can get is bamboo pole. > and they are totally > irrelevant to Amateur activities anyway :-) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24377 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2000 17:39:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Apr 2000 17:39:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cXAR-0000bT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 18:31:07 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cXAQ-0000bO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 18:31:06 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from as21-s15-139-207.cwci.net ([195.44.139.207] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cXAC-0003lA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 17:30:54 +0000 Message-ID: <38EA0895.EF7D7D56@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 15:21:57 +0000 From: "g3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: LA conditions References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Magne Mahre wrote: > Unfortunately, we had to cease transmission for an hour or so due > to interference (hmm, those watts :-) > > Is listening on 136.3 for CW (normal and slow), and will > transmit if anybody is heard. Will resume tx at about 1945 UTC > > --Magne Hi Mahre. I have calculated the distance from my qth/loc IO94SH - JP53EK to you using GPS and it is 1184k/metres and my distance to OH1TN/KP11OO is 1512 k/metres. and my normal report from Reino is 579. We should have no difficulty making a QSO when you get going. Have been looking out for you this past week but to date nil heard and I understand that you have not heard me so far. It is a bad sign if you are not hearing anyone hi cul and tnx all the info. de Mal/G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16575 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2000 17:53:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Apr 2000 17:53:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cXMz-0000eS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 18:44:05 +0100 Received: from [199.172.152.110] (helo=gigi.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cXMy-0000eD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 18:44:04 +0100 Received: from magic.excite.com ([199.172.148.161]) by gigi.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.40 201-229-119-123) with ESMTP id <20000404174113.BTLG18570.gigi.excite.com@magic.excite.com> for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:41:13 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <1835336.954870073838.JavaMail.imail@magic.excite.com> Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 10:41:13 -0700 (PDT) From: "john sexton" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: re-inventing MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 213.1.30.67 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Mal, Instead of just pointing us to the library, can you be a little more specific? What are the key articles to read and what references would be sufficient for the British Library to find them? John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7555 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2000 21:39:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Apr 2000 21:39:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12catl-0001DP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 22:30:09 +0100 Received: from gidora.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.25]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12catj-0001DJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 22:30:07 +0100 Received: (qmail 2262 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2000 21:29:49 -0000 Received: from ppp203.dyn144.pacific.net.au (HELO steve) (210.23.144.203) by gidora.zeta.org.au with SMTP; 4 Apr 2000 21:29:49 -0000 Message-ID: <005101bf9e7c$f4bb1d60$0301a8c0@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200004040206_MC2-9FCE-5D4@compuserve.com> Subject: LF: Re: S-meter readings... Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 07:30:02 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G'day Bob, Geri and others, OK thanks. I have a clearer picture now. Doing a napkin analysis and taking into account the logarithmic nature of the S-meter readings, it seems that, for example, if you have, say, S5 noise alone and then an S5 signal, then the S-meter reads somewhere btween S5 and S6 - closer to S5. Therefore an S5 report would be warranted as being pretty close. The problem seems to be when you have, say, S5 noise and, say, an S2 signal. The S-meter still reads S5. Giving an S5 report would seem to be suspect under those circumstances. It always was on my mind when attempting to give RSTs that the readability part is the only one where I feel that I am giving a true assessment (except of course when the signal is way above the noise). Now I can see that as long as there is a difference of 1 S-point between noise only and noise+signal then the S reading is reasonable (although in guess-units as Bob has pointed out). Thanks 73 Steve VK2ZTO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18296 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2000 21:39:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Apr 2000 21:39:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12catm-0001DV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 22:30:10 +0100 Received: from gidora.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.25]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12catk-0001DK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 22:30:09 +0100 Received: (qmail 2260 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2000 21:29:47 -0000 Received: from ppp203.dyn144.pacific.net.au (HELO steve) (210.23.144.203) by gidora.zeta.org.au with SMTP; 4 Apr 2000 21:29:47 -0000 Message-ID: <005001bf9e7c$f3d02120$0301a8c0@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <2000032922075768199@zetnet.co.uk> <003f01bf9cee$e689c000$0301a8c0@steve> <38E9AE56.AD166E26@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: Fast CW and big antennas... Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 07:04:45 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G'day Kev, Finally, you have proved the case for myself and the vast majority of reflector members. Now perhaps we can get back to the 'signals'. Over and out good buddy. Kindest and sympathetic regards. Steve VK2ZTO > > > Steve Olney wrote: > > > G'day All, > > > Regards Steve Olney > > VK2ZTO > > (P.S. I was going to add more letters here, eg., two Degrees > > Two degrees C or F ? > > > and one > > Diploma, but I didn't want to appear to be a wanker, > > Is that a type of engine, I only have the Aus two page paper back dictionary > and cannot find the word. Aerial mast does not appear either the nearest I > can get is bamboo pole. > > > and they are totally > > irrelevant to Amateur activities anyway :-) > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24414 invoked from network); 4 Apr 2000 22:46:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 4 Apr 2000 22:46:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cbwi-0001Mb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 23:37:16 +0100 Received: from smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net ([199.45.39.157]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cbwh-0001MU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 04 Apr 2000 23:37:15 +0100 Received: from bellatlantic.net (client-151-200-111-146.bellatlantic.net [151.200.111.146]) by smtp-out2.bellatlantic.net (8.9.1/8.9.1) with ESMTP id SAA08847; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 18:36:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Priority: 3 Message-ID: <38EA6EC3.F690A211@bellatlantic.net> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Tue, 04 Apr 2000 18:37:55 -0400 From: "Andre' Kesteloot" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.7 [en]C-CCK-MCD NSCPCD47 (WinNT; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, "lf-amrad" Subject: LF: Re: re-inventing References: <38E8CAB4.47F7F568@netscapeonline.co.uk> <38E90FC3.38DF@xtra.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > g3kev wrote: > > > > LF techniques covering every aspect have been documented over the years > > and while some purport to be inventing new methods they are really > > copying what has gone before. The broadcast industry has covered it in > > great depth and the various Government Agencies have also perfected the > > two way communications aspect especially narrow band methods. It seems > > the majority interested in LF do not realise this and think they are a > > first. > In fact, various government agencies (European Broadcasting services, US Navy, etc.) have indeed been involved in LF transmissions for many years. We should keep in mind, however, that those entities are above all interested in _reliable_ coverage and hence, tend to use as large a hammer as they can possibly find to drive down that nail, i.e., Radio Luxemburg and France Inter=2 megawatts, and see also our AMRAD website (http://www.amrad.org/projects/lf) for details and photographs of the now defunct NSS US Navy site at Annapolis,Maryland. We, amateur radio operators, are not necessarily interested in 24 hours/day coverage, and a QSO from time to time can be very satisfying. Hence, ground wave is not necessarily the only way to go, and once we start using skywave and QRSS, I am fairly sure that the above mentioned Government Agencies have little experience in those domains, mainly, again, because of unreliability or low throughput. But surely, that may be, for some of us, where the fun lies ? Finally, the ARRL Handbook has been printing since the 1920's a statement to the effect that "(The Radio) Amateur is Gentlemanly". I, for one, would not like to see this LF Forum, populated by a bunch of old friends, becoming a place where what sometimes sounds to me like ex cathedra statements are made and barbs exchanged. 73 Andre' N4ICK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20842 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2000 00:34:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Apr 2000 00:34:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cdgV-0001fJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Apr 2000 01:28:39 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from imo22.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.66]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cdgS-0001fD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Apr 2000 01:28:36 +0100 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo22.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id l.c6.37692b1 (4366) for ; Tue, 4 Apr 2000 20:27:47 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 20:27:47 EDT Subject: Re: LF: Decca Masts To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 138 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 4/4/00 4:43:31 PM GMT Daylight Time, blanch@pncl.co.uk writes: << Decca masts - latest situation. Agreement with Racal obtained. Schedule of available stations upcoming. RSGB notified; support of HF Cttee promised. Applications for possible NOV's in process. >> Firstly. Thank you Walter and the DMG for a unique opportunity. However, I'm a little concerned about the prospect of two dozen individuals phoning the RA trying to get various NOV's for higher power / changes in main station address to avoid /P etc. It may appear a tad unprofessional. Does the "DMG" have any suggestions about how this can be co-ordinated so that we collectively retain the respect of the licensing authority? e.g. Single call and NOV per site etc. Guidance required please. What are the NOV's mentioned above? 73 David G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23456 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2000 08:39:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Apr 2000 08:39:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cl9r-0002ZI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Apr 2000 09:27:27 +0100 Received: from fm215.facility.pipex.com ([194.131.104.225]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cl9p-0002ZC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Apr 2000 09:27:25 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from isis (useri612.uk.uudial.com [194.69.106.222]) by fm215.facility.pipex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id JAA05104 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 09:26:23 +0100 (BST) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000405083148.009f1670@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 09:02:04 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: Re: LF: Decca Masts In-reply-to: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 20:27 04/04/00 G0MRF wrote: >However, I'm a little concerned about the prospect of two dozen individuals >phoning the RA trying to get various NOV's for higher power / changes in main >station address to avoid /P etc. It may appear a tad unprofessional. >Does the "DMG" have any suggestions about how this can be co-ordinated so >that we collectively retain the respect of the licensing authority? e.g. >Single call and NOV per site etc. >Guidance required please. >What are the NOV's mentioned above? This is exactly what the DMG is trying to avoid. If anyone wants to operate from these sites under his own licence using his own kit and his own callsign then he can do so without further ado using /P. The only problem would be staying within the 1w erp limit, but efficiency figures for all these antennas have been established over a long period, are available and could be extrapolated to 136 to give maximum input power. 8 watts in would be near enough for most of them so this gives a chance to those not having kilowatt amplifiers. The ability to radiate a known 1w might throw up some interesting results and comparisons. We shall see if we can get a special event station call transportable between sites. Higher power is something else. Some people are keen to radiate as much as possible to see if they can cross the pond on the basis if they can't do it with say 100w then 1w certainly won't, at least at this time of year and sunspot cycle. If they can, they'll have a better idea when to try with 1w. Unfortunately I doubt if we will be able to retain use of a station into the next winter. Of course even if they made it it wouldn't rank for any awards anyway. And even if you don't transmit at all, just looking at what's needed to make a really efficient LF transmitting setup can teach you a lot, as we have already found! The NOV's we're looking at are for higher power and extension of 73 kHz operating period. There may not be much chance of either but we'll see. Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7258 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2000 08:41:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Apr 2000 08:41:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12clDY-0002Zx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Apr 2000 09:31:16 +0100 Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12clDX-0002Zs-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Apr 2000 09:31:15 +0100 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 12clDj-0007Fo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 09:31:28 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Wed, 05 Apr 2000 09:27:37 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 09:27:35 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Decca Masts In-reply-to: X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G0MRF wrote: > Firstly. Thank you Walter and the DMG for a unique opportunity. > > However, I'm a little concerned about the prospect of two dozen > individuals phoning the RA trying to get various NOV's for higher power / > changes in main station address to avoid /P etc. It may appear a tad > unprofessional. Does the "DMG" have any suggestions about how this can be > co-ordinated so that we collectively retain the respect of the licensing > authority? e.g. Single call and NOV per site etc. > > Guidance required please. > What are the NOV's mentioned above? There should be no need to apply for a special Notice of Variation to your licence unless you want to operate on 73kHz and no-one in your team has an NoV already. Existing NoVs - as David knows from his activity at Windsor and in GD - allow operation away from your home QTH =provided= you give the local RIS (PTT) at least seven days' notice of the location to be used. I have found no difficulty with this over several trips to GW. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1375 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2000 09:10:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Apr 2000 09:10:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12clfb-0002ed-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Apr 2000 10:00:15 +0100 Received: from hs-img-4.compuserve.com ([149.174.177.149] helo=sphmgaad.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12clfa-0002eB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Apr 2000 10:00:14 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by sphmgaad.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id EAA01498 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 04:59:25 -0400 (EDT) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Tue, 4 Apr 2000 03:53:32 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: LF: DJ9IE strongest yet ! To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200004040353_MC2-9FD3-8816@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Mal, >I work DJ9IE frequently and usually get a 589 report. His RX capability seems >good to me. >In fact I do not have any difficulty with any German station regardless of their >QTH, but DJ9IE is by far the strongest and most consistant. >de G3KEV btw: did you know, that Uli uses a 750 ft long horizontal antenna ;-) 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8010 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2000 09:20:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Apr 2000 09:20:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12clpI-0002hR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Apr 2000 10:10:16 +0100 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12clpH-0002hM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Apr 2000 10:10:15 +0100 Received: from locxvcym ([210.55.83.249]) by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with ESMTP id <20000404233239.TWMQ17040128.mta1-rme@locxvcym> for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 11:32:39 +1200 From: "ComPact" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Re: S-meter readings... Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 11:31:11 +1200 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Priority: 3 X-Mailer: Microsoft Internet Mail 4.70.1161 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Message-ID: <20000404233239.TWMQ17040128.mta1-rme@locxvcym> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Steve The other consideration with giving S-meter readings on LF is that there is often a reasonably steady 'noise floor' punctuated by static crashes which may be pinning the meter for a fair bit of the time. I think we all get quite good at watching for the noise floor between the crashes and judging how far the signal lifts the meter above that. One or two people always give an RST report followed by a "dB out of the noise" figure. Because of the very slow QSB and predictable groundwave signals these techniques prove very useful. In fact because of the small number of LF stations in ZL it is usually possible to guess a station's identity just from the signal strength! Thanks Steve and Rick for the VLF info. I turned on an ancient CR300 the other night, inspired by the mention on the reflector of old Marconi receivers, and heard VTX3 going strong. Mike ZL4OL From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14894 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2000 11:43:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Apr 2000 11:43:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12co1G-00031z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Apr 2000 12:30:46 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12co1E-00031s-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Apr 2000 12:30:45 +0100 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id MAA11127 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 12:30:23 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <2000040511283868199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 11:28:38 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: LF: Re: LF Book, vol 2 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit I am compiling a follow-on book to 'The LF Experimenter's Source Book'. Since the last edition was published in 1998 a lot of experimental and constructional work has been done, which is, in the main, undocumented. I would be pleased to receive descriptions of any experimental or constructional work that you may have done or a description of your LF station and antenna system. Diagrams and photos would also be welcome. Do not be discouraged from writing if English is not your mother tongue. I can edit your manuscript provided I have sufficent detail. Please contact me at the e-mail address below if you would like your work described in this book. -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO Tel: +44 (0)1903 770804 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27359 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2000 14:18:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Apr 2000 14:18:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cqXL-0003Py-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Apr 2000 15:12:03 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from fm215.facility.pipex.com ([194.131.104.225]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cqXI-0003Pt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Apr 2000 15:12:00 +0100 Received: from isis (useree88.uk.uudial.com [62.188.11.112]) by fm215.facility.pipex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id PAA24846 for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 15:10:59 +0100 (BST) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000405150236.00967a20@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 15:11:36 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: Decca Masts MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To All - Capacitance of the Puckeridge mast is 3750 pf. and measured efficiency at 85 kHz is 11.5% Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19425 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2000 14:47:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Apr 2000 14:47:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cqyV-0003Up-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Apr 2000 15:40:07 +0100 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cqyT-0003Uk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Apr 2000 15:40:06 +0100 Received: from steve (ppp197.dyn143.pacific.net.au [210.23.143.197]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id AAA32409 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 00:39:48 +1000 Message-ID: <003301bf9f0c$d9872580$0301a8c0@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <2000032922075768199@zetnet.co.uk> <003f01bf9cee$e689c000$0301a8c0@steve> <38E9AE56.AD166E26@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: Re: LF: Re: Re: Fast CW and big antennas... Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 00:40:03 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G'day Kev, Appears I owe you an apology. I have checked with the Macquarie Dictionary Sales Department here and it seems the two page Aus edition you have is probably the special abridged export edition produced for your geographical area. According to their market research they determined that anything more extensive than this would lead to a debilatating confusion with some purchasers in that area. The edition you have apparently has only words of three letters or less which explains why you couldn't find wanker or aerial. They inform me that they are making a bold marketing gamble by releasing a version for your geographical area which has words with more than three letters and smaller writing so you should see that appearing in your local library soon. Look under the 'First Readers' section. Kind regards and sincerest apologies. Steve Olney VK2ZTO. P.S. I can send you my youngest son's Macquarie Dictionary unabridged edition (he grew out of it at about 8) if you feel you are up to the challenge. > > and one > > Diploma, but I didn't want to appear to be a wanker, > > Is that a type of engine, I only have the Aus two page paper back dictionary > and cannot find the word. Aerial mast does not appear either the nearest I > can get is bamboo pole. > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29782 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2000 18:10:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Apr 2000 18:10:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cu4x-0003zo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Apr 2000 18:58:59 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cu4w-0003zh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Apr 2000 18:58:58 +0100 Received: from [195.44.140.67] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cu4j-0002MI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Apr 2000 17:58:46 +0000 Message-ID: <38EB706B.20C21091@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 16:57:16 +0000 From: "g3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Decca Masts References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G0MRF@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/4/00 4:43:31 PM GMT Daylight Time, blanch@pncl.co.uk > writes: > > << Decca masts - latest situation. > > Agreement with Racal obtained. > Schedule of available stations upcoming. > RSGB notified; support of HF Cttee promised. > Applications for possible NOV's in process. > >> > > Firstly. Thank you Walter and the DMG for a unique opportunity. > > However, I'm a little concerned about the prospect of two dozen individuals > phoning the RA trying to get various NOV's for higher power / changes in main > station address to avoid /P etc. It may appear a tad unprofessional. One must watch ONE's image and be professional at all times. > If you inform the DTI that you will be working from an address other than the > main address, no /P is necessary and no NOV required, except you require a > special callsign or mode/power changes. > > Does the "DMG" have any suggestions about how this can be co-ordinated so > that we collectively retain the respect of the licensing authority? e.g. > Single call and NOV per site etc. > > Guidance required please. > What are the NOV's mentioned above? > > 73 Keep it simple and flexible, go along and use your own callsign/p. No need for complicated procedures and new NOV,s now that numerous sites are available it might get too complicated. With antennas masts as high as 400 ft and large antenna arrays good TX filtering is essential to avoid splattering on the band, plus good RX filtering to avoid overloading the front end. Good luck to those involved, it is an oppertunity in a life time to work from a COMMERCIAL SITE, in spite of the recent critizism to the contrary about following the COMMERCIAL approach and using large towers!!!!!!!!!!! Is it really amateur radio when someone else provides the towers and elaborate radial system, and in some cases the equipment. All the amateur is doing is sending/receiving slow CW. I will stay at home and EXPERIMENT with my own antennas and modest rf power. G3KEV > > > David G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26481 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2000 18:10:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Apr 2000 18:10:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cu4w-0003zi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Apr 2000 18:58:58 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cu4t-0003zc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Apr 2000 18:58:55 +0100 Received: from [195.44.140.67] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cu4g-0002MD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Apr 2000 17:58:43 +0000 Message-ID: <38EAFA68.4718482@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 08:33:44 +0000 From: "g3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: re-inventing References: <1835336.954870073838.JavaMail.imail@magic.excite.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: john sexton wrote: > Hi Mal, > Instead of just pointing us to the library, can you be a little more > specific? > What are the key articles to read and what references would be sufficient > for the British Library to find them? John. Surf the net, also there has been several directives from SM and DL on this medium pointing out what material is available and where to find it world wide. One publication was a complete volume of US army material covering every aspect of LF/MF . There is so much written about the subject those interested will have to do their own research and browsing. Each individual on LF will have a different approach and what works for one will not work for another because of local environment, type of antenna, ground radial system, coastal or inland qth, so many things, regardless what the manual says. My approach was to built a tx running a few hundred watts out, match everything to 50 ohms, put a vertical antenna up as high as I could reasonably get it, put down a good ground radial system, keep the antenna tuning and matching inductor at the bottom of the vertical and run 50 ohm coax to the shack which is 150 ft away, this avoids hight RF voltages and radiation hazards in the shack. This installation has been working well for around 2 years, is very stable and only needs retuning if I change frequency. The weather seems to have little effect on resonance ie sunshine or rain and my inductor/matching is exposed to the elements and is wound with 2.5mm teflon insulated copper wire. AVOID bringing the antenna wire directly into the shack, even though it might be more convenient. for tuning purposes. Keep the top loading horizontal wires and drop wire going to loading inductor at base of mast TIGHT, this avoids them blowing about in the wind and going off RESONANCE and possible damage your fet pa, due to high SWR. Use good quality insulators, preferably the long ribbed stick glass, ceramic or polythene type, and keep your antenna wires well away from buildings or trees. 73 de MAL/G3KEV > > > John, G4CNN > > _______________________________________________________ > Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite > Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29725 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2000 18:28:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Apr 2000 18:28:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cuN8-00043Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Apr 2000 19:17:46 +0100 Received: from newmail.spectraweb.ch ([194.158.230.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cuN3-00043K-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Apr 2000 19:17:45 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from freesurf.ch (194.230.211.245) by newmail.spectraweb.ch for ; 5 Apr 2000 20:17:21 +0200 Message-ID: <38EB8351.9A0E8E3C@freesurf.ch> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Wed, 05 Apr 2000 20:17:53 +0200 From: "Toni" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [de] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en-US,en-GB,fr-FR MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: VLF Questions Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From HB2ASB, JN36pt I could get a special license for 8 kHz experiments from our local authorities (100mW ERP, may be more) but I'm not sure if it's worth the effort and money. Is there anybody else interested in VLF? Could you get also a special permission in your country? Do we have the chance to cover more than a few kilometers (or miles) with our wet bamboo poles and moderate power, using QRSS? 73 de Toni From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17817 invoked from network); 5 Apr 2000 22:47:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 5 Apr 2000 22:47:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cyV1-0004aR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Apr 2000 23:42:11 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from imo-d05.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.37]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12cyV0-0004aJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 05 Apr 2000 23:42:10 +0100 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-d05.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id l.6f.3402e1e (3842) for ; Wed, 5 Apr 2000 18:40:34 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <6f.3402e1e.261d1ae1@aol.com> Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 18:40:33 EDT Subject: Re: LF: Decca Masts To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0.i for Windows 95 sub 138 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 4/5/00 9:35:08 AM GMT Daylight Time, blanch@pncl.co.uk writes: << This is exactly what the DMG is trying to avoid. If anyone wants to operate from these sites under his own licence using his own kit and his own callsign then he can do so without further ado using /P. >> Thank you Walter and Mike for the replies. Yes, I realised that a letter to the RIS is all that is needed to remove need for the /P suffix and for the ability to operate 73k away from the main station address. My interest, as you surmised, related to the 1 W ERP limit on both bands. I believe that a special event call can be obtained via the RSGB in about 4 weeks, so on this occasion it's probably too late ( Hert's mast). I look forward to those 1 W ERP signals, and subsequently, to all those calibrated selective level meters across Europe. In the meantime I'll try for a 100W NOV and see where how far I get. 73 David G0MRF. (Enjoying working into ON / PA / DL etc on a 10m vertical. Tough, but fun.) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14811 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2000 05:47:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Apr 2000 05:47:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12d4yf-0005Oh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2000 06:37:13 +0100 Received: from mta03.talk21.com ([62.172.192.172] helo=t21mta03-app.talk21.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12d4yW-0005Ob-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2000 06:37:05 +0100 Received: from dave ([62.7.173.215]) by t21mta03-app.talk21.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20000406053658.QIZ19613.t21mta03-app.talk21.com@dave> for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 06:36:58 +0100 Message-ID: <000001bf9f8a$0c5714c0$d7ad073e@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <001801bf9e59$b1766eb0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> Subject: LF: Re: DMG, North Atlantic Date: Wed, 5 Apr 2000 16:59:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC >The window of low noise on LF is closing fast here, if anyone can move quick >to a good site please email me ASAP What is also closing fast is the winter propogation. CFH is now pretty weak when I listen around 0600z, so I expect any chance would have to be rather earlier, say between midnight and 0400. If a serious test is going to be conducted from one of the Decca sites it must include this time period. 73s Dave dsergeant@iee.org http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22387 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2000 06:03:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Apr 2000 06:03:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12d5GH-0005QU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2000 06:55:25 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12d5GG-0005QP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2000 06:55:24 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer (man-147.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.40.187]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id GAA09106 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 06:55:10 +0100 Message-ID: <001801bf9f8c$ba1a8040$bb28f7c2@oemcomputer> From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <38E87C1A.6180691A@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: French connection Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 06:55:28 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: ----- Original Message ----- From: g3kev To: rsgb Sent: Monday, April 03, 2000 12:10 PM Subject: LF: French connection > Have the French gone underground on LF. No, but the Cave Radio & Electronics Group do so regularly on LF. 73 de John Rabson G3PAI From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27596 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2000 09:19:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Apr 2000 09:19:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12d8KW-0005qQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2000 10:12:00 +0100 Received: from rubellite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12d8KS-0005qL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2000 10:11:56 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 (2410812495.dialin.freeler.nl [143.178.20.79]) by rubellite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id ED32727D2 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 09:11:00 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <008e01bf9fa9$31040660$4f14b28f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200004040206_MC2-9FCE-5D4@compuserve.com> <005101bf9e7c$f4bb1d60$0301a8c0@steve> Subject: LF: Re: Re: S-meter readings... Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 11:13:02 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Steve Olney wrote: > OK thanks. I have a clearer picture now. Doing a napkin analysis and > taking into account the logarithmic nature of the S-meter readings, it seems > that, for example, if you have, say, S5 noise alone and then an S5 signal, > then the S-meter reads somewhere btween S5 and S6 - closer to S5. > Therefore an S5 report would be warranted as being pretty close. The > problem seems to be when you have, say, S5 noise and, say, an S2 signal. > The S-meter still reads S5. Giving an S5 report would seem to be suspect > under those circumstances. What Steve uses as an example describes the situation at my station. The noise level during daytime is usually S5. If I can just read a station by ear I give it S5. Readibility could be between, say, R2 and R5, depending on whether the signal is at the low or the high end of the signal span around S5 (more than S4/5 and less than S5/6). I never give reports less than S5 because such signals would be too weak to be copied by ear in the noise. I calibrated the receiver according to the IARU recommendation for frequencies below 30 MHz: S9 means a signal power of -73 dBm fed to the receiver. When the receiver input impedance is 50 Ohms a power of -73 dBm is reached at 50 microvolts at the antenna terminal. A step of 1 S-point is 6 dB. 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1753 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2000 09:57:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Apr 2000 09:57:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12d8uC-0005vd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2000 10:48:52 +0100 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12d8uB-0005vY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2000 10:48:51 +0100 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id KAA23106; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 10:51:16 +0100 (BST) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 17771 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2000 10:44:01 -0000 X-Priority: 3 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 6 Apr 2000 10:44:01 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id JAA07118; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 09:37:22 GMT Received: from unknown(146.80.11.40) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma007098; Thu, 6 Apr 00 09:36:56 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 06 Apr 2000 10:51:29 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by FRN-GOLD-1 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id <2J096K44>; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 10:46:57 +0100 Message-ID: <3617AC3245C2D1118A840000F805359C01752847@PDW-MERCURY-1> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: VLF Questions Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 10:46:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I am particularly interested in these low frequencies, especially as 137 and 73 have become just DXCC and CW operators bands. I was considering applying to our licensing agency for a narrow allocation in the 10 - 20 kHz part of the spectrum, or whatever is available. Perhaps one of the spots Omega used to have may be available. Wasn't sure what sort of bandwidth to request - 10 Hz or 1 Hz, too narrow for normal CW anyway. And as for an ERP limit ! Andy G4JNT > ---------- > From: Toni[SMTP:hb9asb@freesurf.ch] > Reply To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Sent: 2000-04-05 19:17 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: VLF Questions > > From HB2ASB, JN36pt > > I could get a special license for 8 kHz experiments from our local > authorities (100mW ERP, may be more) but I'm not sure if it's worth > the > effort and money. > Is there anybody else interested in VLF? > Could you get also a special permission in your country? > Do we have the chance to cover more than a few kilometers (or miles) > with our wet bamboo poles and moderate power, using QRSS? > > 73 de Toni > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10771 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2000 11:48:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Apr 2000 11:48:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dAf4-0006BJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2000 12:41:22 +0100 Received: from smtp11.bellglobal.com ([204.101.251.53]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dAf2-0006BE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2000 12:41:20 +0100 Received: from server1 (ppp75.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.245.75]) by smtp11.bellglobal.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id HAA24791 for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 07:46:47 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004501bf9fbc$af3e7fc0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Re: DMG, North Atlantic Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 07:35:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave: >What is also closing fast is the winter propogation. CFH is now pretty weak >when I listen around 0600z, so I expect any chance would have to be rather >earlier, say between midnight and 0400. If a serious test is going to be >conducted from one of the Decca sites it must include this time period. Well put. I should comment that my lightning static level is rising here very quickly. Yesterday it did not go away at all. I am however able to see the LowFer signal from Mitch as a "line" almost continuously even with the static. Our Beacon on 137.710 goes on the air later this weekend. Then I will get back to finishing the big TX. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13481 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2000 12:00:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Apr 2000 12:00:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dAq1-0006D7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2000 12:52:41 +0100 Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dApz-0006Cx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2000 12:52:40 +0100 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id l.30.3617a7d (3842) for ; Thu, 6 Apr 2000 07:51:51 -0400 (EDT) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <30.3617a7d.261dd457@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 6 Apr 2000 07:51:51 EDT Subject: LF: Weekend Portable operation. To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 32 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Again.... Bill, G0AKY, Tony, G4KLF/A45ZN, and I will be operating from the beach near Hastings over the weekend. We will be doing some antenna experiments using a 90m high cliff to support a sloping wire antenna. With luck we'll have a total length of around about 160m or 500 feet. I'll be very interested in any field strength or comparative reports. We have permission to use the local Yacht/boat club premises on the beach and have access to a mains supply. We hope to make some measurements on the antenna and assess the effectiveness of a number of 1.5m copper rods in the sea, about 50m away, as an earth. It will also be interesting to see how UK stations receive us as the signal will have to pass through, or around, the cliff. PA/ON should get a very good signal. We'll have 71.8k, 136k CW and QRS from early Saturday morning. 73 David G0MRF 0958 502540 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6789 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2000 17:40:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Apr 2000 17:40:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dG6t-00072B-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2000 18:30:27 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dG6p-000726-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2000 18:30:23 +0100 Received: from as24-s16-146-19.cwci.net ([195.44.146.19] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dG6c-0000RC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2000 17:30:10 +0000 Message-ID: <38EC42D2.1E7D78F@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Thu, 06 Apr 2000 07:54:58 +0000 From: "g3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Decca Masts References: <6f.3402e1e.261d1ae1@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G0MRF@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/5/00 9:35:08 AM GMT Daylight Time, blanch@pncl.co.uk > writes: > > << This is exactly what the DMG is trying to avoid. > > If anyone wants to operate from these sites under his own licence > using his own kit and his own callsign then he can do so without > further ado using /P. >> > > Thank you Walter and Mike for the replies. > Yes, I realised that a letter to the RIS is all that is needed to remove need > for the /P suffix and for the ability to operate 73k away from the main > station address. > My interest, as you surmised, related to the 1 W ERP limit on both bands. > > I believe that a special event call can be obtained via the RSGB in about 4 > weeks, so on this occasion it's probably too late ( Hert's mast). > > I look forward to those 1 W ERP signals, and subsequently, to all those > calibrated selective level meters across Europe. In the meantime I'll try for > a 100W NOV and see where how far I get. With 100 W erp from a 300/400 ft mast the signal would be enormous. Good TX filtering is essential to avoid splattering and swamping everyone else on the band, especially those located up to a few hundred miles from the site. With only 2 khz b/width on 136 khz this could be a problem and could become another RUGBY scenario for every one else on the band. Using MOSFET switched mode type amplifiers could also be a problem, especially the 3rd/5th harmonics and beyond. A good linear valve amplifier would be a better choice. Taking the above observations into consideration good luck with the experiment and I hope you manage to work across the Atlantic. The weakness could be the other end. I have been trying to encourage some 160 metre dxers, with large antennas on the East coast USA to try 136 khz but they do not seem to be interested. There are also three GI amateurs that I know with towers in excess of 130 ft high, each one has at least two towers but they are not interested in anything below 160 metres. Those with the hardware, capability, experience and ideal locations do not seem enthusiastic. That leaves GI3PDN with his 80 ft tower and myself GI3KEV with a 120 ft tower. If anyone wants to organise a DXPEDITION to Cookstown/Tyrone sometime let me know. It is also a rare County for ALL band activity. Any band that I operate on from there attracts a PILE UP. G3KEV/SCARBOROUG > > > 73 > > David G0MRF. > > (Enjoying working into ON / PA / DL etc on a 10m vertical. Tough, but fun.) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29529 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2000 20:09:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 6 Apr 2000 20:09:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dITK-0007JW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2000 21:01:46 +0100 Received: from gidora.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.25]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dITF-0007JR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 06 Apr 2000 21:01:42 +0100 Received: (qmail 32051 invoked from network); 6 Apr 2000 20:01:13 -0000 Received: from ppp187.dyn144.pacific.net.au (HELO steve) (210.23.144.187) by gidora.zeta.org.au with SMTP; 6 Apr 2000 20:01:13 -0000 Message-ID: <00e501bfa002$ecdc42e0$0301a8c0@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <38EB8351.9A0E8E3C@freesurf.ch> Subject: LF: Re: VLF Questions Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 06:01:33 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G'day Toni, Here in VK anything below 9kHz is unrestricted as long a emissions at those frequencies do not produce products which extend into the 9kHz and above bands. I like the idea of this frequency as the frontier for Amateurs is about 10km (i.e. still near field?). Also it lends itself to my favourite technique - ultranarrowband and is perfect for my FDK experiments. John Taylor G0AKN and Graeme Zimmer VK3GJZ have done work in this area. Have a look at the links on:- http://www.zeta.org.au/~ollaneg/uevlf.htm Also Christer SM6PXJ is interested in this area. 73s Steve Olney (VK2ZTO/AXSO - QF56IK : Lat -33 34 07, Long +150 44 40) ============================================= HomePage URLs: http://www.qsl.net/vk2zto http://www.zeta.org.au/~ollaneg Containing:- Laser Comms DX LF Experimentation Amateur Radio Astronomy ============================================= From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20866 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2000 07:30:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Apr 2000 07:30:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dT3h-00007J-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 08:20:01 +0100 Received: from artemis.le.ac.uk ([143.210.16.126]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dT3d-000071-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 08:19:57 +0100 Received: from pc171.geog.le.ac.uk ([143.210.25.171] helo=kate) by artemis.le.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #2) id 12dT3R-00077T-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 08:19:45 +0100 From: "kate moore" To: "lfgroup" Subject: LF: Weekend transmissions Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 08:12:49 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: If the weather stays reasonable, I hope to make some 73kHz QRSS transmissions each morning over the coming weekend (8-9/4). Times will be 07.00 - 07.30UT and my frequency will be 71.735kHz. All reports, particularly from stations outside the UK, will be gratefully received and acknowledged. If the band is active and Rugby (hopefully!) still down, I will stay on and work everyone I can, otherwise I will move up to 'VHF'...... 136kHz!! Regards John G4GVC near Leicester, IO92JP ** TX: Synth + 400W RF from modified 'G3YXM' Mosfet PA ** ** RX: TS-850S with 3 x CW filters and 0.5ppm TCXO ** ** Ant: Inv-L 60m long, 6m high at feed end, 12m high at far end ** From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2251 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2000 08:20:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Apr 2000 08:20:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dTtS-0000FL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 09:13:30 +0100 Received: from mail4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.211]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dTtO-0000FG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 09:13:26 +0100 Received: from modem-9.powder-blue-tang.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.51.9] helo=lvm) by mail4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12dTtB-0008WM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 09:13:14 +0100 Message-ID: <000201bfa069$36f50220$0933893e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: Re. LF Weekend Portable. Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 09:13:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi David,
I should be in ground wave distance from you,and would be happy to give comparison reports of your home station against beach portable,if this is any intrest to you. 73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4948 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2000 09:05:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Apr 2000 09:05:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dUZ1-0000Lb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 09:56:27 +0100 Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dUZ0-0000LW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 09:56:26 +0100 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 12dUZE-000376-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 09:56:41 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 09:53:33 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 09:53:32 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Good conditions coming? X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: A 'severe solar wind shock' impacted Earth at 1632UTC yesterday. This resulted in a big aurora, The A Index is 56. This is higher than early February when VA3LK was getting good signals from DCF. It will be interesting to see if this causes some good LF conditions. If it does, it probably shows that the Solar Flare warnings are useless as this aurora was preceded by 2 C-class and 1 M-class flares which occur quite frequently. For more info from the experts follow the three propagation links from my web site. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19277 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2000 15:17:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Apr 2000 15:17:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12daMM-0001Kb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 16:07:46 +0100 Received: from tomts1.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.139] helo=tomts1-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12daMI-0001KT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 16:07:43 +0100 Received: from server1 ([206.172.245.30]) by tomts1-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with SMTP id <20000407150655.CEDJ21816.tomts1-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 11:06:55 -0400 Message-ID: <002a01bfa0a2$9b9320c0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: TransAtlantic II, test notice - announcement Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 10:58:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings All: This is a preliminary notice to all LF amateurs in Europe and Canadian amateurs interested in LF activities that the radio regulatory authority in Newfoundland, VO1, has issued me, VA3LK, an experimental permit to operate in the proposed LF amateur band of 135.7 kHz to 137.8 kHz. The project is to be known as TransAtlantic II with a major test effort over the North Atlantic to occur from November 10, to November 27th 2000. The attempt will be made from the East Coast of Newfoundland with, I hope, two receiving teams and one transmitting team. Each team will be independent and will seek the best receiving sites and the best transmitting sites available along the VO1 coast for the test. This notice seeks to provide preliminary and planning information for our peers in Europe of the goals for TransAtlantic II. European amateurs have been operating regularly on the LF band for some years now. It is my hope to have them make similar efforts to ours in the operation of portable LF stations during the three weekends over a two-week period next fall. Secondly this notice seeks to attract participants in Canada who will develop the LF receiving skills and see how far west of Newfoundland that TransAtlantic II signals might be received during the trial period. The development of a receiving team in the Halifax area in conjunction with Jack, VE1ZZ who has an excellent location and antennas is an initial critical need. Third this notice seeks participation of VO1 amateurs and others who might assist this team in finding the best receiving and transmitting sites on the east coast of Newfoundland that we might be able to use, or obtain permission to use, during the fall period. We have to consider staying as far as possible from the Loran-C stations at Cape Race and at Fox Harbour in VO2. We must also provide as much signal discrimination as possible from a high powered existing station on 137 kHz in the Halifax area. The fourth, and at the end of the day a most important goal, is to demonstrate to the regulatory authority that Canadian amateurs have the skill and competence to operate in the LF part of the spectrum, and to share with the existing users of this spectrum without interference. It is important that amateurs are assigned opportunities in this part of the spectrum so that we might make some contributions to radio science with our work on these frequencies. TransAtlantic II will transmit and receive regular CW, special slow speed CW that is known in the LF community as QRS CW at about .4 WPM, that is point four WPM. We will also be transmitting what is known as Coherent- BPSK, C-BPSK using the work of Bill de Carle, VE2IQ who has been an active and dedicated researcher in the LF region for many years. Bill is part of is the LowFer community here in North America. He has heard the LowFer signal TEXAS at his home north of Montreal. TransAtlantic II seeks to build on the LowFer technology that has been demonstrated with excellent results over a long distance at power levels far below that to be used in the 135.7 to 137.8 kHz band. The TransAtlantic II project will be making a financial appeal to the Canadian amateur community at a later date. TransAtlantic II is also seeking the participation of a few more team members who are prepared to put in long hours of preparation and then three plus weeks of time on the east coast of Newfoundland in November. If you can cope with cold coffee or even no coffee and a wet and cold work environment and have some CW and computer skills and a passion for long Beverage antennas you probably have the basics to be a team member! The actual operating hours will only be from about 2000 utc each day until about 0700 utc, so one should expect to get some sleep each night. First we must hear/see signals from Europe then we need to have our signals heard in Europe and then a two way QSO. Until this happens, and we expect this to happen during the test, we should expect to possibly move sites between evening test periods as needed to achieve the goals of TransAtlantic II. There is precious little time left to develop computer DSP skills, such as expert use of the software Spectrogram and Gram, the LF listening and antenna fabrication skills. If you want to participate the time to start is now on an urgent basis. An LF beacon in eastern Ontario will be on the air shortly, a LowFer beacon is on the air in Southern Ontario as well. I am pleased to announce that Mitch Powell, VE3OT will focus on the technology development for the receiver teams. Mitch has extensive LF listening and computer skills and has been a member of the LowFer community for some years now. Mitch and I have already both undertaken some portable operations  we have begun to understand the issues involved in bringing TransAtlantic II to an operational status. What can you do? You can solicit your club for funds to support TransAtlantic II. You can build and operate an LF receiving station and an associated computer system to try and hear/see the LF signals in Ontario as well as during TransAtlantic II with Europe next fall. You can become a TransAtlantic II team member. You can learn about LF and become active in the LF community. If you can help or need additional information contact myself, Larry at kayser@sypatico.ca or Mitch at PowellM@claven.fanshawec.on.ca for additional information. Work with BPSK requires a Sigma Delta demodulator, contact Bill de Carle at bill@ietc.ca. Bill has kits available and the software is available on the Internet. Bill has an article on this unit, it is in QST for January 1992, page 23. We are off an running with a new challenge in LF. Firsts do not come often in Amateur Radio, I have been lucky to be in a few of them, this one has lots of room for many to achieve new Firsts in LF. Lets Go. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17824 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2000 16:25:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Apr 2000 16:25:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dbIy-0001V1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 17:08:20 +0100 Received: from artemis.le.ac.uk ([143.210.16.126]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dbIv-0001Uw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 17:08:18 +0100 Received: from pc171.geog.le.ac.uk ([143.210.25.171] helo=kate) by artemis.le.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #2) id 12dbIk-0004aZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 17:08:06 +0100 From: "kate moore" To: "lfgroup" Subject: LF: no email Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 17:01:10 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: John G4GVC will not have access to email until next Thursday. If you need to contact him please phone. Kate From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27878 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2000 17:03:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Apr 2000 17:03:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dc3m-0001cI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 17:56:42 +0100 Received: from helios.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dc3l-0001cB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 17:56:41 +0100 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by helios.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 12dc0k-0007Uu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 17:53:34 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <24546.200004071701@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 18:02:33 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: This weekend X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF group, I have had my LF rig in pieces during the week, getting it into more presentable shape for possible /P operation. It's almost done now, so I hope to be QRV later this evening on 73kHz. I am also working on my field strength measuring equipment, and hope to try it out later in the weekend. Good to hear about the Transatlantic II project - something to prepare for during the long summer months! Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10513 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2000 17:12:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Apr 2000 17:12:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dcCc-0001fK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 18:05:50 +0100 Received: from mserv1c.u-net.net ([195.102.240.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dcCb-0001fF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 18:05:49 +0100 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1c.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #35) id 12dcBV-0002Hp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 18:04:43 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 17:49:34 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 17:49:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: TransAtlantic II, test notice - announcement In-reply-to: <002a01bfa0a2$9b9320c0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > An LF beacon in eastern Ontario will be on the > air shortly, a LowFer beacon is on the air in Southern Ontario as well. > Larry (and Andre as well), In order for DX beacons to be REALLY useful, ie identifiable on Spectrogram etc, they should ideally transmit continuously with regular hand-speed callsigns for the audio boys, but also have extremely slow CW imposed on it in very narrow FSK for weak signal work. Something like 2 or 3Hz shift would be very visible on a DSP program but inaudible to the listener. It may be that we could have seen the USA beacons by now but it would have been impossible to have made a positive identification in any case. More work for you!! Well done on the test licence. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22312 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2000 19:10:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Apr 2000 19:10:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12de1T-0001xg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 20:02:27 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12de1R-0001xb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 20:02:25 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id VAA03982 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 21:02:12 +0200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000407205737.0957b5d8@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 20:57:37 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: LF Book, vol 2 In-reply-to: <2000040511283868199@zetnet.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------090904050104060007070008" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------090904050104060007070008 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello Peter, attached you find a drawing of my antenna. As you will see I not much of an artist but I hope the picture gives you an idea how my antenna is constructed. Some explanation : N = nylon rope (120kg breaking force) S = PVC coated steel rope I = insulator X = elastic material, it's the stuff you use fix fix a basket on the back of a bike or on the roof of a car (sorry, I don't know the correct English word). L1 = base coil (variable, +/- 1.8mH) L2 = top coil (+/- 2mH) P = small wooden pole (abt. 2m) The hight of the antenna (at the ends) is 11m there is about 1m 'sack' in the middle. The antenna is supported by 4 birch trees of about 15m high and apart from the 'electrical challenge' to maximize the effeciency of the antenna there was also a 'mechanical challenge' to make the antenna survive strong winds. In the beginning I had 2 problems : - rope breaking because of strong wind - rope breaking because of 'friction' with the trees The first was solved by inserting the elastic material, in the normal state each is about 0.8m long but it can stretch to over 2m without breaking. The friction problem was solved by placing some short pieces (about 3m) of PVC coated steel rope where there is friction with the branches. The antenna is up now for 1 year without being destroyed by winds (fingers crossed). Regarding the antenna efficiency was my main problem the high loss resistance. When I started on LF (early 1998) I measured a loss of 220 Ohms ! Gradually the ground network was improved from 6 short radials (10 to 20m each) on the ground to a complex system of 6 groundrods (galvanized steel, 2.5m deep in the earth) and about 150m of galvanized iron wire interconnecting all the rods and burried about 20cm deep in the ground. But even this groundsystem the loss resistance is still 120 Ohms. Further exstensions of the ground system gave little or no reduction of the loss what make me believe that at this moment the loss is mainly in the many (several hundreds) trees surrounding the antenna rathyer than really in the ground. An unexpected result was achieved by placing a part (about 50%) of the loading coil at about 10m height. The expected gain (calculated and simulated) was only about 0.5dB but several tests and measuement showed an improvement of 4 to 5dB. A possible expanation for this unexpected gain is the fact that the voltage on the vertical part is reduced by about 50% while the topload voltage remained almost unchanged. This would mean that the unwanted 'coupling' of the antenna to the many surrounding (vertical) trees comes mainly from the vertical part of the antenna and by reducing the voltage on the vertical part also this loss is reduced. The strange thing is that I did not achieve a higher antennacurrent, the current even dropped slightly (from 1.9 to 1.85A) probably because of the extra loss in the elevated coil (since this coil had to be very light I used thin wire). With about 450WF power I get an antennacurrent of about 1.85A, estimated ERP is about 100mW. But despite this very modest ERP I managed to work over 70 stations in 17 DXCC countries over the past 2 years. This might encourage other hams to become active on LF, even when they have only limited space. 73, Rik ON7YD --------------090904050104060007070008 Content-Type: image/gif; name="ANT136.GIF" Content-Transfer-Encoding: base64 Content-Disposition: inline; filename="ANT136.GIF" R0lGODlhQQJ+AbMAAAAAAAAAqwCrAACrq6sAAKsAq6tXAKurq5eXl1dX/1f/V1f///9XV/9X ////V////ywAAAAAQQJ+AQME+/DISau9OOvNu/9gKI5kaZ5oqq5s675wLM90bd94ru987//A oHBILBqPyKRyyWw6n9CodEqtWq/YrHbL7Xq/4LB4TC6bz+i0es1uu9/wuHxOr9vv+Lx+z+/7 /4CBgoOEhYaHiImKi4yNjo+QkXUClJWWApKZmps1l56enFqflqGlU6OooKZQqZ+rr0itsqSw sbOotbk+t7y6Q7yyvsI0wMXDPcXBx8srycbMNs630NQj0s/VMNfT2d0Z287eLODc4ubk4eYm 6MDq3ezp7iHw7fLM9PH2HPj1+r78+fxdANhPICyC2AxWQFhQYSiGCR0egFhO4iaKEQ1irGgx +9LGjPo+cuzYSCRIdyZHklSUspfAlipXGoLpMiTNVjIX3ayJcifOnIh8zrInVBlQQkWH9kw6 6mghpj/PQcXlNNDUqN6uNq0KSCvVrF5dce0T9mu2sqrG7kEr9izbS2r1vG1LbS6tuHfswq2m 9y7eOX33QgtM6e8kwoUHI8ZkOM7iSooRN3b8mPGxypYns8F8r7LmNpgTD+P8eU3ozLpOl1aj 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IPJMe/IqjwIsf+AK/vLU6fLukPI0nwIx7+ABn/MSD/FjgfM+bwI7X+FAP/Q2UPRJfvRITwNK j6w93/Q+8PS8YfNS7wFUbxtWf/UckPWwsfVczwFg7w5jH/Z+TfLSi/Zm/wNlbw5tv/YV8Pbe IPdwH/Vfz/R1zwJ0nw17D/d9Tw1/b/aBzwyDz/WFfwyHL/WJLwyLj/SNrwuP7/ORXwuTT/OV Dwvqnvc6kPmerPkEPOSeH/qiP/qkX/qmf/qon/qqv/qs3/qu//qwH/uyP/u0X/u2f/u4n/u6 v/u83/u+//vAH/zCLw8CEQAAIf67VGhpcyBmaWxlIHdhcyBjcmVhdGVkIGJ5DQ0gICAgR3Jh cGhpYyBXb3Jrc2hvcCBmb3IgV2luZG93cyAxLjFsDSAgICBmcm9tIEFsY2hlbXkgTWluZHdv cmtzIEluYy4NICAgICAgICAgUC5PLiBCb3ggNTAwDSAgICAgICAgIEJlZXRvbiwgT250YXJp bw0JCQkgICAgICAgICBMMEcgMUEwIENBTkFEQQ0NICAgIFVzZSBubyBob29rcwA7 --------------090904050104060007070008-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13929 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2000 19:30:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Apr 2000 19:30:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12deNE-00021L-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 20:24:56 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12deND-00021G-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 20:24:55 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id VAA38706 for ; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 21:24:42 +0200 X-Priority: 3 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000407212111.0967fa4c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 21:21:11 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: LF Book, vol 2 In-reply-to: <3.0.1.16.20000407205737.0957b5d8@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> References: <2000040511283868199@zetnet.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Oops, I did it once more. The previous mail was meant to be sent directlty to G3LDO instead of to the reflector. Sorry for the inconveniance. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1779 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2000 20:51:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Apr 2000 20:51:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dfbq-0002CF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 21:44:06 +0100 Received: from m11.boston.juno.com ([205.231.100.194]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dfbp-0002CA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 21:44:05 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"yokUgcxCbtTP7XLrpefewDgKZMf2tl/kM7vgEeS6RUYpSxQhxmKMGg=="> Received: (from riese-k3djc@juno.com) by m11.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id E433RDG2; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 16:43:30 EDT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 16:40:55 -0400 Subject: Re: LF: Re: LF Book, vol 2 Message-ID: <20000407.164057.-4225.1.riese-k3djc@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 0-1,3-6,8-14 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "Bob RIESE" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rick unless I missed it what is the length of your antenna, and the drawing is very good Bob On Fri, 07 Apr 2000 20:57:37 Rik Strobbe writes: >Hello Peter, > >attached you find a drawing of my antenna. As you will see I not much >of an >artist but I hope the picture gives you an idea how my antenna is >constructed. > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13856 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2000 21:00:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Apr 2000 21:00:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dfkV-0002Dj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 21:53:03 +0100 Received: from smtp13.bellglobal.com ([204.101.251.52]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dfkT-0002De-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 21:53:02 +0100 Received: from server1 (Kingston-ppp64688.sympatico.ca [216.208.85.69]) by smtp13.bellglobal.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id QAA23411; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 16:56:05 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <005301bfa0d2$ec49d060$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, mike.dennison@rsgb.org.uk Subject: LF: QRS CW from Canada Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 16:42:03 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike: >In order for DX beacons to be REALLY useful, ie identifiable on >Spectrogram etc, they should ideally transmit continuously with >regular hand-speed callsigns for the audio boys, but also have >extremely slow CW imposed on it in very narrow FSK for weak >signal work. Something like 2 or 3Hz shift would be very visible on >a DSP program but inaudible to the listener. It may be that we >could have seen the USA beacons by now but it would have been >impossible to have made a positive identification in any case. >More work for you!! The Canadian beacon at this time is only for testing antennas, tuners, tools, method and processes (RX and TX) and modulation methods to be used on the TransAtlantic II effort. The modulation for the moment will be BPSK and then some QRS CW and maybe, if there is a model for it, some FSK. After a QSO across the North Atlantic is a reality I will do other things here from Westport for the duration of the license period in an attempt to also get across North Atlantic from here. I hear your message, and I agree after we have done TransAtlantic II, then all things are possible. For now the focus is not for general listening by others, although I have nothing wrong with that, I would really like very much to have a good 40 wpm QSO on LF, that would be a lot of fun and might get some of my FOC friends interested hi. Please try and accept my single focus, TransAtlantic II is the only interest here until it is done, or I am forced to admit failure. >Well done on the test licence. Thank you. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28592 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2000 21:23:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Apr 2000 21:23:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dfyl-0002H5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 22:07:47 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dfyk-0002H0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 22:07:46 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [195.44.140.27] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dfyW-0006dv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 21:07:33 +0000 Message-ID: <38EE3FAF.D0310B1A@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Fri, 07 Apr 2000 20:06:07 +0000 From: "g3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: Transatlantic 11 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Larry and info to others. That seems an elaborate project for November and a lot of involvement. I will go across to Cookstown/Tyrone. N.I for the period Nov 10 - 27th. for the test. Mine is a more simple approach and a one man job, purely Amateur Radio and not a commercial site sponsered by Decca/Racal. The antenna tower at 120 feet vertical is already installed and just needs the antenna attaching. The antenna will consist of a 120 feet vertical section top loaded with 4 horizontal wires each approx 500 feet long but could be longer, there is plenty of room. This will be resonated and matched to 50 ohms at the base of the tower, and fed to the shack via 50 ohm cable. The ground system consists of several elevated insulated radials each one approx 300 feet long and connected at the far end to metal sheep fencing that runs across the country for miles in all directions. The erp is expected to be around 1W. This installation is privately owned by myself and has already been tested and will be in use again several times before November. I am in the process of building a new TX as a standby. The TX is driven from a high stability synthesizer for frequency accuracy and stability. I prefer normal hand speed CW up to 30 wpm send/receive and always select a speed appropriate for the conditions and the operator at the other end. I also have computer facilities to generate and receive very slow cw if totally necessary, To date I have not found this to be the case. If this operation is successful in November it is irrelevant who actually makes the first qso as long as those participating all make it across in the end, often the first across the line depends a lot on luck and being in the right place at the right time!!!!!!! If I had your Locator I would calculate the distance using GPS. Good luck with your plans. 73 de Mal/G3KEV/GI3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25084 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2000 21:51:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Apr 2000 21:51:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dgYt-0002LT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 22:45:07 +0100 Received: from ds-img-5.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.138] helo=spdmgaae.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dgYs-0002LO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 22:45:07 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id RAA23767 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 7 Apr 2000 17:44:24 -0400 (EDT) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 17:42:23 -0400 From: "Prof R. Jennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: G3LDO on 73 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200004071742_MC2-A05C-CEE0@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3LDO received in Canterbury at about 21.15 Z this (Friday) evening with the best signal that I have ever heard on the band. He was calling CQ on approx 72.4 kHz. I returned his call on 71.9 after my TX had warmed up (I use steam radio) but I heard nothing further from him although there was a fainter ham transmission on about 72 which I failed to copy. Nice work Peter. Roger, G2AJV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16687 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2000 22:14:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Apr 2000 22:14:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dgwE-0002Q2-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 23:09:14 +0100 Received: from gidora.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.25]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dgwB-0002Px-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 07 Apr 2000 23:09:12 +0100 Received: (qmail 30552 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2000 22:08:51 -0000 Received: from ppp108.dyn143.pacific.net.au (HELO steve) (210.23.143.108) by gidora.zeta.org.au with SMTP; 7 Apr 2000 22:08:51 -0000 Message-ID: <004501bfa0dd$edfa8ca0$0301a8c0@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: Good conditions coming? Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 08:08:55 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G'day Mike, > > If it does, it probably shows that the Solar Flare warnings are > useless as this aurora was preceded by 2 C-class and 1 M-class > flares which occur quite frequently. > Yes, I have been following the flares and can see no correlation between the A-index and flare activity. Pity. Mind you I don't know whether there is a correlation between a high A-index and enhanced LF conditions either. Bears watching closely. > > For more info from the experts follow the three propagation links > from my web site. > Sorry for being so useless but I can't find the three propagation links on your site. What am I missing (apart from two eyes and a brain :-) ? 73s Steve Olney (VK2ZTO/AXSO - QF56IK : Lat -33 34 07, Long +150 44 40) ============================================= HomePage URLs: http://www.qsl.net/vk2zto http://www.zeta.org.au/~ollaneg Containing:- Laser Comms DX LF Experimentation Amateur Radio Astronomy ============================================= From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 319 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2000 23:44:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Apr 2000 23:44:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12diJl-0002fn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Apr 2000 00:37:37 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12diJk-0002fi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Apr 2000 00:37:36 +0100 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id AAA32031 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 00:37:23 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <2000040723353368199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 7 Apr 2000 23:35:33 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: Re: LF: Good conditions coming? Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Mike said > A 'severe solar wind shock' impacted Earth at 1632UTC yesterday. > This resulted in a big aurora, The A Index is 56. This is higher than > early February when VA3LK was getting good signals from DCF. > It will be interesting to see if this causes some good LF conditions. > If it does, it probably shows that the Solar Flare warnings are > useless as this aurora was preceded by 2 C-class and 1 M-class > flares which occur quite frequently. If good conditions are coming they have not arrived yet. However, it might be a case that it gets bad before it gets better. I have been running 72kHz/137kHz cross-band tests with I5TGC. Because Cesare is running 20mW erp and I am running about 35mW erp on 72kHz it is a fairly good indication of conditions over a path length of 1150km plus the Alps. Normally, we see each other but optimum conditions on each band seldom occur at the same time so we have not made a QSO yet. Tonight (8/4) was different - not a whisper either way. I have just checked 137kHz and CFH was inaudible and only just detectable with Spectran.(It was S9 +20dB when the AMRAD group were at Nags Head). However, SM6PXJ was clearly audible calling CQ at 2240UTC - I couldn't go back to him because my transmitter was set to 72kHz. Conditions are going to play a crucial role in the success of any transatlantic test, particularly if high speed CW operation is contemplated - still, I guess its all been organised. -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18454 invoked from network); 7 Apr 2000 23:46:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 7 Apr 2000 23:46:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12diMJ-0002gI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Apr 2000 00:40:15 +0100 Received: from mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12diMI-0002fq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Apr 2000 00:40:15 +0100 Received: from [202.27.181.6] by mta2-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <20000407233924.GQDQ4732523.mta2-rme@[202.27.181.6]> for ; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 11:39:24 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <38EE6748.5DD1@xtra.co.nz> Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 10:55:04 +1200 From: "vernall" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Good conditions coming? References: <004501bfa0dd$edfa8ca0$0301a8c0@steve> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Steve Olney wrote: > Sorry for being so useless but I can't find the three propagation links on > your site. What am I missing (apart from two eyes and a brain :-) ? Probably a dictionary :) Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26455 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2000 06:33:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Apr 2000 06:33:38 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dofB-0003VT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Apr 2000 07:24:09 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from finch-post-10.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dofA-0003VO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Apr 2000 07:24:08 +0100 Received: from dennison.demon.co.uk ([194.222.239.33]) by finch-post-10.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12doeu-000J1M-0A for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 06:23:56 +0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <2E8dsHAeAt74EwX9@dennison.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 07:22:22 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Mike Dennison" Subject: Re: LF: Good conditions coming? In-reply-to: <2000040723353368199@zetnet.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3LDO wrote: >If good conditions are coming they have not arrived yet. However, it >might be a case that it gets bad before it gets better. > >I have been running 72kHz/137kHz cross-band tests with I5TGC. Because >Cesare is running 20mW erp and I am running about 35mW erp on 72kHz >it is a fairly good indication of conditions over a path length of >1150km plus the Alps. >Normally, we see each other but optimum conditions on each band >seldom occur at the same time so we have not made a QSO yet. >Tonight (8/4) was different - not a whisper either way. I agree. I have been running crossband tests with Valerio, IK5ZPV, who has seen my 72kHz signals clearly in the past, but no succcess in the last week. There's plainly a lot still to learn about propagation. This is the value of our puny milliwatt signals - every detail of propagation change becomes significant. It is in this area of research that we have the edge over the QRO commercials. -- Mike, G3XDV IO91VT http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24601 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2000 07:03:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Apr 2000 07:03:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dpBx-0003ZQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Apr 2000 07:58:01 +0100 Received: from mb09.swip.net ([193.12.122.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dpBw-0003ZL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Apr 2000 07:58:00 +0100 Received: from win95 (d212-151-53-7.swipnet.se [212.151.53.7]) by mb09.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id IAA12766 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 08:57:23 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <002601bfa128$25f2dbe0$073597d4@win95.swipnet.se> From: "C Andersson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: SV: LF: Good conditions coming? Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 09:00:07 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3LDO: >I have just checked 137kHz and CFH was inaudible and only just >detectable with Spectran.(It was S9 +20dB when the AMRAD group were >at Nags Head). Here, CFH was S5-S6 on the meter for several hours this night. Unusually strong. BTW, I worked OK1MRS as a new one with good reports both ways. 73 Christer sm6pxj From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 903 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2000 07:09:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Apr 2000 07:09:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dpIC-0003bR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Apr 2000 08:04:28 +0100 Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.89]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dpIB-0003bM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Apr 2000 08:04:27 +0100 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12dpHy-000M0X-0V; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 08:04:14 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <38EED893.D621CF3F@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Sat, 08 Apr 2000 07:58:27 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, "Steve Baugh" <100042.134@compuserve.com> Subject: LF: G/GW 73/136 Crossband QSOs References: <24546.200004071701@gemini> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Jim M0BMU wrote > . . . I hope to be QRV later this evening on 73kHz. I am also working > on my field strength measuring equipment, and hope to try it out > later in the weekend. I am delighted to report an LF crossband QSO this morning (Saturday) with Jim (Jim on 73, me on 136). Jim was easy copy at RST 559 in a 500 Hz bandwidth over the 170 km path. Well done, Jim! But my first LF crossband QSO - and presumably the first G/GW LF crossband - took place when I worked John G4GVC (140 km) last night. Noise levels were higher last night, but John's 73 kHz signal was still a good 559 here. Thanks for encouraging me to get the antenna tuned for 73 kHz, John! I experience very similar local electrical noise on 73 kHz to that heard on 136 kHz. So, unless I build another noise canceller for 73 kHz, my best chance of hearing stations on 73 kHz will be in the mornings. Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG Tel: 01291 625977 ************************************** Life Member ARRL; G-QRP Club No. 10574 From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13371 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2000 12:27:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Apr 2000 12:27:51 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12duEK-0004CF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Apr 2000 13:20:48 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.88]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12duEJ-0004CA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Apr 2000 13:20:47 +0100 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12duE7-000MRh-0U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 13:20:35 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 13:19:34 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: LF: 73 KHz MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 3.05 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Super signals this morning, Saturday, on 72 KHz with my VLW lying on the ground as a result of an ice storm last week. Aural reports in 500 Hz B/W: Dave 589 - the strongest signal I've ever heard on that band John 579 Jim 569 Mike 559 73, Tom G3OLB From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16907 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2000 12:44:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Apr 2000 12:44:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12duV0-0004Do-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Apr 2000 13:38:02 +0100 Received: from merlins.plus.net.uk ([195.166.128.23] helo=merlins.force9.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12duUz-0004Dj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Apr 2000 13:38:01 +0100 Received: (qmail 29949 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2000 12:39:28 -0000 Received: from ruin.servers.plus.net.uk (212.159.2.66) by merlins.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Apr 2000 12:39:28 -0000 Received: (qmail 18106 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2000 12:39:17 -0000 Received: from 221.03-03.quay.dial.plus.net.uk (HELO main) (212.159.74.221) by ruin.servers.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Apr 2000 12:39:17 -0000 Message-ID: <001d01bfa157$f28fcbc0$0600a8c0@main> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: 73 KHz Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 13:42:48 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Thanks for the nice signal reports.. Some good contacts today (Saturday). John and myself worked EI0CF (x-band). Jim and Mike worked GI3PDN (x-band) and a few of us worked G2AJV. Sunday will be our last quiet day as Rugby is scheduled to return to the air on Monday. Let's make the most of it. I will be calling on 72.1kHz looking for crossband QSOs to 136kHz and will also be listening 7023kHz. 73, Dave G3YXM. > Super signals this morning, Saturday, on 72 KHz with my VLW lying on the > ground as a result of an ice storm last week. Aural reports in 500 Hz > B/W: > > Dave 589 - the strongest signal I've ever heard on that band > John 579 > Jim 569 > Mike 559 > > 73, Tom G3OLB > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20274 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2000 13:04:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Apr 2000 13:04:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dulS-0004GS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Apr 2000 13:55:02 +0100 Received: from mailman.zeta.org.au ([203.26.10.16]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12dulQ-0004GN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Apr 2000 13:55:01 +0100 Received: from steve (ppp53.dyn143.pacific.net.au [210.23.143.53]) by mailman.zeta.org.au (8.8.7/8.8.7) with SMTP id WAA00595 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 22:54:44 +1000 Message-ID: <003101bfa159$bb5a93e0$0301a8c0@steve> From: "Steve Olney" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: Re: LF: Re: Good conditions coming? Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 22:55:27 +1000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G'day Mike, Inetresting stuff. Thanks!!! > locally but didn't upload them. The links are NOW on the Links page, > then under Useful LF Pages. > Regards Steve VK2ZTO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2756 invoked from network); 8 Apr 2000 19:44:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 8 Apr 2000 19:44:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12e0va-000502-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Apr 2000 20:29:54 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12e0vX-0004zx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 08 Apr 2000 20:29:51 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id UAA29091 for ; Sat, 8 Apr 2000 20:29:36 +0100 X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <2000040819133668199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 8 Apr 2000 19:13:36 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: LF: Re: GB2CPM Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit I hope to operate from GB2CPM again tomorrow. Although I will be operating on the 136kHz band I will listen on 72kHz. -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17747 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2000 08:23:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Apr 2000 08:23:03 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12eCp0-0006Qe-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Apr 2000 09:11:54 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from mail.sci.fi ([195.74.0.53] helo=pefletti.saunalahti.fi ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12eCoz-0006QZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Apr 2000 09:11:53 +0100 Received: from default (MMCMXVII.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.45.217]) by pefletti.saunalahti.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA26057 for ; Sun, 9 Apr 2000 11:11:36 +0300 (EET DST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000409111141.00866100@pop.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: vaiski1@pop.saunalahti.fi (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 11:11:41 +0300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: LF: Signal Strength Measurements by OH2LX MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Signal strength measurements of various LF stations : ---------------------------------------------------------- Day ------------------ 04Apr 05Apr 06Apr 07Apr 08Apr TUE WED THU FRI SAT Time, UTC ------------ 2100- 2010- 2010- 2050- 2115- ---------------------------------------------------------- kHz Ch *d,km AZI* *Indicated ESH2 input, dBmW* ---------------------------------------------------------- 73.3 Rugby, 1825, 252, - Nil Nil Nil Nil ---------------------------------------------------------- 75.0 HBG, 1992, 226, - -101 -107 -96 -97 ---------------------------------------------------------- 77.5 DCF77, 1543, 228, - -88 -82 -82 -85 ---------------------------------------------------------- 128.2 9f/7D, 2060, 267, -123 -116 -115 -118 -119 ---------------------------------------------------------- 128.9 DCF49, 1544, 228, -85 -85 -81 -81 -86 ---------------------------------------------------------- 135.8 SXV, 2490, 182, -105 -112 -111* -104 -104 ---------------------------------------------------------- 137.0 CFH, 5750, 295, Nil** Nil Nil Nil Nil ---------------------------------------------------------- 138.8 DBF39, 1221, 226, -81 -104*** -77 -79 -80 ---------------------------------------------------------- On 04th Apr "wave like" noise bursts (of solar origin ?) ---------------------------------------------------------- * On 6th Apr SXV varies a lot (!) 2105z was below -127!! ---------------------------------------------------------- ** CFH weakly heard ONLY on the 8th after 2230z up to -130 ---------------------------------------------------------- *** On 5th Apr DBF39 had increased back to -89 around 2030 ---------------------------------------------------------- 04Apr 2111: SM6PXJ -118..-117 05Apr 1947: G3KEV -128 05Apr 2025: SM6PXJ -127; 2028: -125 06Apr 2011: DJ9IE -128; 2048: -127 06Apr 2024: OH1BS -112; 2119: -113 06Apr 2100: G3KEV? -128 07Apr 2114: OH1BS -113 ---------------------------------------------------------- (R&S ESH2/---- 10m coax---/1:10/---15m wire-----): Noise level with antenna: with 200Hz IF BandWidth: -26..-21 dB(uV), -133..-128dBmW (varies w qrm etc) ---------------------------------------------------------- End of message of 09 April 2000, 0810 UTC, from OH2LX ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9431 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2000 11:56:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Apr 2000 11:56:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12eGD2-0006oi-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Apr 2000 12:48:56 +0100 Received: from ulexite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12eGD0-0006od-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Apr 2000 12:48:55 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust87.tnt15.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.53.4.87]) by ulexite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 5CDFFFB0C2 for ; Sun, 9 Apr 2000 10:47:38 -0100 (GMT) Message-ID: <002401bfa21a$a404f160$570435d5@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: LF-Group at Hastings Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 13:53:27 +0200 Organization: Freeler MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
To All from PA0SE
 
David, G0MRF, requested reports on their signal from their Hastings beach location. So I set-up my measuring equipment.
 
G0MRF/G4KLF certainly had a nice signal but not as strong as I had expected. Perhaps power was lost in the rock, that being in the near field.
 
Reception at their location seemed to be better on Sunday than on the previous day when only the strongest stations from the continent, like DJ9IE and ON6ND, were answered. Sunday the lesser ones also got a chance.
 
All in all a commendable effort to obtain hands-on experience as amateurs using aerials in unusual situations. And that is what our hobby is about, isn't it?
 
Here is my report.
 
S9 = -73dBm
One S-point = 6dB
 
Saturday April 9
 
Time Callsign    Power into RX  S-report 
                 in dBm
 
0726 DCF139       -32            S9 + 41dB
0733 DJ9IE        -72            S9 + 1dB
0738 OK1FIG       -92            S5 + 5dB
0741 DF7VX        -89            S6 + 2dB
0848 OZ1KMR       -80            S7 + 5dB
0841 ON6ND        -72            S9 + 1dB
0845 G3BDQ        -85            S7
0947 G3XTZ        -82            S7 + 3dB
0957 PA0BWL       -70            S9 + 3dB
1027 PA0KDM       -88            S6 + 3dB
1031 DL3FDO       -86            S6 + 5dB
1033 G3AQC        -85            S7
1207 G0MRF/G4KLF  -85            S7
1234 M0BMU        -87            S6 + 4dB
1237 DK9DX        -80            S7 + 5dB
1257 G3YXM        -79            S8
 
Sunday April 9
 
0725 DCF139       -31            S9 + 42dB
0731 G0MRF/G4KLF  -86            S6 + 5dB
0732 GI3PDN       -100           S4 + 3dB
0758 OZ8NJ        -90            S6 + 1dB
0815 DL3FDO       -90            S6 + 1dB
0845 G3BDQ        -85            S7
0858 DK5PT        -82            S7 + 3dB
0916 G6RO         -91            S6
0950 PA0BWL       -69            S9 + 4dB
 
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
JO22GD
D.W. Rollema
V.d. Marckstraat 5
2352 RA Leiderdorp
The Netherlands
Tel. +31 71 589 27 34
or
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
 
     
 
 
                                           
 
 
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27468 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2000 17:05:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Apr 2000 17:05:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12eKzE-0007Nh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Apr 2000 17:55:00 +0100 Received: from newmail.spectraweb.ch ([194.158.230.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12eKzB-0007Nc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Apr 2000 17:54:57 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from freesurf.ch (194.230.192.32) by newmail.spectraweb.ch for ; 9 Apr 2000 18:54:43 +0200 Message-ID: <38F0B5FB.9971891F@freesurf.ch> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 18:55:23 +0200 From: "Toni" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [de] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en-US,en-GB,fr-FR MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: LF propagation and Kp index Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From HB2ASB At different occasions I've made the following observations: It seems to me that there is a link between distortions in the magnetic field of the earth (caused by solar activity) and LF propagation. After a magnetic storm (not during) daylight propagation is often enhanced and night propagation disturbed and below average. I've also found a description of this phenomenon in old literature about LF propagation. At http://sec.noaa.gov/rt_plots/kp_3d.cgi you may observe the development of the Kp Index. 73 de Toni From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5982 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2000 17:16:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 9 Apr 2000 17:16:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12eLCJ-0007Qc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Apr 2000 18:08:31 +0100 Received: from newmail.spectraweb.ch ([194.158.230.44]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12eLCI-0007QX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Apr 2000 18:08:30 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from freesurf.ch (194.230.192.32) by newmail.spectraweb.ch for ; 9 Apr 2000 19:08:17 +0200 Message-ID: <38F0B929.736BE50F@freesurf.ch> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 09 Apr 2000 19:08:57 +0200 From: "Toni" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [de] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: de,en-US,en-GB,fr-FR MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Daylight activity april 9/2000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From HB2ASB As I'm writing this mail G3LDO comes in loud and clear with 569. Besides Peter I heard the following stations today (all normal CW): DL1SAN 599 OZ8NJ 569 G3BDQ 449 G4KLF 569 DJ2EY 559 DK5PT 559 DK8KW 339 DJ7RD 569 DJ1ZB 559 MM0ALM 559 G3OLB 339 PA0BWL 239 G0MRF 559 ON6ND 569 OE5ODL 559 DJ2LF/p 579 PA0SE 569 DF6NM 569 DL3FDO 459 DL2NDO/p 579 DJ9IE 449 A lot of activity and I missed probably much more since I've been out most of the day! 73 de Toni From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11499 invoked from network); 9 Apr 2000 20:45:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by 212.159.2.36 with SMTP; 9 Apr 2000 20:45:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12eOQa-0007qJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Apr 2000 21:35:28 +0100 Received: from tantalum.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.80]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12eOQW-0007qE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 09 Apr 2000 21:35:24 +0100 Received: from [62.6.92.72] (helo=default) by tantalum.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12eOIC-0001QF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 9 Apr 2000 21:26:49 +0100 Message-ID: <000301bfa262$053f6a40$485c063e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots for 8/9 March from GB7DXM Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 21:26:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: No serious monitoring from here this weekend, weather too nice and grass getting too tall. Most of the spots propagated in from Wolf this week....no G stations spotted! Still no signs of an LA signal in the 'charts' G3NYK de GB7DXM 9-Apr-2000 2013Z Type H or ? for help > 137.5 OE5ODL 9-Apr-2000 1604Z 599 136.8 OK1DTN 9-Apr-2000 1559Z 559 cq 136.7 OZ8NJ 9-Apr-2000 0807Z 549 cq 136.6 OK1DTN 9-Apr-2000 0729Z 439 cq 137.1 DJ7RD 9-Apr-2000 0652Z 579 cq 136.7 OZ8NJ 8-Apr-2000 1900Z 539 cq 136.5 DJ9IE 8-Apr-2000 1845Z 559 cq 136.9 PA0BWL 8-Apr-2000 1049Z 559 cq 136.5 DJ7RD 8-Apr-2000 1029Z 579 cq 136.9 OK1FIG 8-Apr-2000 0711Z 569 in qso with dl3fdo 149 ( 136.9 OK1FIG 7-Apr-2000 1704Z 559 in qso with dj7rd 559 136.5 DJ9IE 7-Apr-2000 1658Z 558 in qso with dk1is 539 136.6 PA0BWL 5-Apr-2000 1935Z 439 cq G3NYK de GB7DXM 9-Apr 2013Z > 1800.0 OZ1KMR 8-Apr-2000 0824Z 136.9 khz 539 1800.0 KTX3 7-Apr-2000 1028Z 18.5khz sends 4 number groups 1800.0 KTX3 7-Apr-2000 1018Z fq. 18.5 khz no aurora qth? a 1800.0 KTX3 6-Apr-2000 2039Z real fq. 18.5 khz sends vvv G3NYK de GB7DXM 9-Apr 2014Z > Cheers de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6936 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2000 01:01:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Apr 2000 01:01:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12eSTB-0008On-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 01:54:25 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.68]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12eSTA-0008Oi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 01:54:24 +0100 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id l.44.2b3d86b (3894) for ; Sun, 9 Apr 2000 20:53:26 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <44.2b3d86b.26228005@aol.com> Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 20:53:25 EDT Subject: LF: Re: LF-Group at Hastings To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 32 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 4/9/00 12:55:04 PM GMT Daylight Time, d.w.rollema@freeler.nl writes: << To All from PA0SE David, G0MRF, requested reports on their signal from their Hastings beach location. So I set-up my measuring equipment. G0MRF/G4KLF certainly had a nice signal but not as strong as I had expected. Perhaps power was lost in the rock, that being in the near field. >> Hello Dick / Group. Thank you for the report of signals heard Dick. This has been very informative. Bill, G0AKY, Tony, G4KLF and I arrived ready to go at 08.00 Saturday morning. The cliff is 100m high but as the apex is inland, our wire had to be tied off about 80m ASL. After climbing the cliff 3 times (not the way to do it) we finally had the system running by 12.00. - Not exactly formula 1 pit stop standards! With a supply of 32.5V @ 25Amps we achieved 3.9 Amps of antenna current. The cliff is sandstone and does obscure any line of site path to The Netherlands. The direct path to most UK stations is via 200 - 300 metres of rock. Perhaps the only UK stations who are line of site are G3LDO and Laurie G3AQC. An interesting comparison is with the signal of G3BDQ (130W) who is located on the highground slightly to the NE of our site on the beach. Both BDQ and KLF are reported at -85dBm by Dick. In another report Toni, HB2ASB, reports KLF at 569 and BDQ at 449. The only difference is that, to HB9, the 'KLF' signal was not obstructed by the cliff. I'm still measuring the matching inductance value, reading my notes and have yet to determine the precise length of the antenna. Our tests with various earth arrangements were disrupted by some 'do-gooders' who neatly collected our earth rods from the sea and left them at the edge of the car park- high and dry! (on both days) Thanks also for the activity on 73k. G3YXM, G4GVC, G3XTZ, M0BMU and G3OLB all good signals. Managed to work Dave and John two way on Sunday. 73 David From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23213 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2000 08:34:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Apr 2000 08:34:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12eYTB-0000fe-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 08:18:49 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12eYTA-0000fZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 08:18:48 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA105126 for ; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 09:18:35 +0200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000410091501.2e77d172@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 09:15:01 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Good conditions coming? In-reply-to: <2000040723353368199@zetnet.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Auroral conditions must have been expectional on Thursday night (April 6th) as we had VISUAL aurora borealis (arround 22UT) in central Belgium. But I noticed no propagation enhancement on LF. 73, Rik ON7YD At 23:35 7/04/00 +0100, G3LDO wrote: >Mike said > >> A 'severe solar wind shock' impacted Earth at 1632UTC yesterday. >> This resulted in a big aurora, The A Index is 56. This is higher than >> early February when VA3LK was getting good signals from DCF. > >> It will be interesting to see if this causes some good LF conditions. >> If it does, it probably shows that the Solar Flare warnings are >> useless as this aurora was preceded by 2 C-class and 1 M-class >> flares which occur quite frequently. > >If good conditions are coming they have not arrived yet. However, it >might be a case that it gets bad before it gets better. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28611 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2000 08:34:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Apr 2000 08:34:46 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12eYQa-0000fW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 08:16:08 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.89]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12eYQZ-0000fR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 08:16:07 +0100 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12eYQI-000IMo-0V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 08:15:51 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <1ZsDqAAj9X84Ewuc@telemetry.demon.co.uk> Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 08:14:43 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: Re: LF: Re: LF-Group at Hastings In-reply-to: <44.2b3d86b.26228005@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike (32) Trial Version 3.05 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: David, Not me on 73 KHz, I don't have an NOV! You were a good sig on 136 here in Devon, 589. Sorry didn't work you but spent part of week end re-erecting antenna and the rest mowing grass! 73, Tom G3OLB. In message <44.2b3d86b.26228005@aol.com>, >Thanks also for the activity on 73k. G3YXM, G4GVC, G3XTZ, M0BMU and G3OLB >all good signals. Managed to work Dave and John two way on Sunday. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28625 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2000 08:34:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Apr 2000 08:34:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12eYMa-0000fE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 08:12:00 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12eYMW-0000f9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 08:11:56 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA166552 for ; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 09:11:43 +0200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000410090809.2e77553e@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 09:08:09 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: LF Book, vol 2 In-reply-to: <20000407.164057.-4225.1.riese-k3djc@juno.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Bob, The topload is abt. 23m long and at a height of 11m (with 1m 'sack' in the middle. 73, Rik At 16:40 7/04/00 -0400, you wrote: >Rick > >unless I missed it what is the length of your antenna, and the drawing is >very good > >Bob > >On Fri, 07 Apr 2000 20:57:37 Rik Strobbe >writes: >>Hello Peter, >> >>attached you find a drawing of my antenna. As you will see I not much >>of an >>artist but I hope the picture gives you an idea how my antenna is >>constructed. >> > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26513 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2000 09:10:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Apr 2000 09:10:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ea5L-00010C-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:02:19 +0100 Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ea5H-000107-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:02:16 +0100 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 12ea5W-0004bf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:02:30 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 09:53:51 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 09:53:49 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: G/GW 73/136 Crossband QSOs In-reply-to: <38EED893.D621CF3F@alg.demon.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: GW4ALG wrote: > I am delighted to report an LF crossband QSO this morning (Saturday) > with Jim (Jim on 73, me on 136). Jim was easy copy at RST 559 in a 500 Hz > bandwidth over the 170 km path. Well done, Jim! > > But my first LF crossband QSO - and presumably the first G/GW LF > crossband - took place when I worked John G4GVC (140 km) last night. Noise > levels were higher last night, but John's 73 kHz signal was still a good > 559 here. I'm sure you are right that it's the first GW/G crossband QSO. Congratulations, Steve. Back in the early days of the 73kHz band - 1997 - I made the first GW/GW crossband between my 73k portable station and the 430MHz station of my elder son, Paul 2E1DBI a few km away. I also heard G3LDO on 73k whilst portable but the return half of the QSO had to be made on a cellphone!. I believe that I am the only person to have transmitted on 73 from GW. During the week between Easter and May Day I will be operating on 73k from West Wales, using 200W and a kite antenna. Full details to follow. I look forward to having the first 73/136k GW/GW crossband with you Steve. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28531 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2000 09:20:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Apr 2000 09:20:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12eaFb-00012K-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:12:55 +0100 Received: from mail11.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.23]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12eaFa-00012F-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:12:54 +0100 Received: from modem-69.amrod.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.105.197] helo=lvm) by mail11.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12eaFM-00046o-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:12:41 +0100 Message-ID: <000201bfa2cd$05288440$c569883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: Re.L.F. Antennas. Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:12:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi All,
When I first set up my 136 station I put up a Marconi "T" vertical ant. 15M high 30M long.The best ant. current I could get from my 400 watt amplifier was 1.8 amps.The measured ground /coil/copper loss was 125 ohm! Over the past 6 months I have tried to improve this, I have increased the top to 3 wires,increased the grounding from 2x4 foot rods plus house wiring/water etc to 10x 4 foot rods, 20 radials each about 50 feet long plus one radial 150 feet long ending up at an earth rod in sea water! I also re-made the loading coil with thicker wire.The total result of all this effort was 2 Amps !!! Not very encouraging.This weekend I decided to start again.I replaced the "T" with an inv.L using the same support (tree) at one end but 60M long to another tree.SO I now have less wire in the air 60M instead of 3x 30M but stretched out.The loading inductance has not changed so the capacitance is the same. BUT the ant current is now 3 Amps!
Does this mean that the antenna wire needs to have a longer "footprint " on the ground?,presumably the current density is less than under the 3 wire top,but the new ant stretches beyond my radial system,and it is still much better!.Does this also explain the reported  good performance of  so called "long wire" antennas on this band?
Food for thought.
I am hoping to
improve things further but I dont have room to extend the top wire in a straight line,perhaps I will try a crooked L Hi.
 Checks with Eznec indicate a R.Res of  about .06 ohms for the "T " and .0675 for the "L" so with the increased current I hope to have improved my signal by at least 3db.
73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22222 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2000 10:00:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Apr 2000 10:00:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12easW-00019t-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:53:08 +0100 Received: from mail2.hamilton-standard.com ([153.4.57.12]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12easT-00019o-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:53:05 +0100 Received: from curly.hsd.utc.com by mail2.hamilton-standard.com; (8.9.1/) id GAA08920; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 06:03:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from umrsvr.hsd.utc.com by curly.hsd.utc.com; (8.9.0/) id FAA02420; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 05:51:51 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com by umrsvr.hsd.utc.com; (8.9.0/) id FAA19352; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 05:48:40 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 11:40:54 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Soegiono, Gamal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: DCF39 update Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 11:40:52 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: multipart/mixed; boundary="------------050805080200060607040805" MIME-Version: 1.0 This is a multi-part message in MIME format. --------------050805080200060607040805 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Hello All last saturday a "LF tactical team" took a close look on the DCF39 site in Burg near Magdeburg. The data presented previously in my station profile DCF39.TXT have to be updated: 1) One antenna has been scrapped completely 2) The antennas active for emission of DCF39 and Radioropa Info respectively have been interchanged. <> Teamleader Geri will come up with a more detailed report, photos and other surprises soon... best 73 de Gamal --------------050805080200060607040805 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; name="DCF39.TXT" Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Disposition: inline; filename="DCF39.TXT" ========================================== Station DCF39 purpose remote control service ========================================== nominal frequency 139.000 kHz modulation: ASCII (8E1) 200 baud FSK 340Hz shift mark_frequency 138.830 kHz space_frequency 139.170 kHz ------------------------------------------- from topographic map 50 latitude 52d17m18s N longitude 11d53m51s E locator JO52WG located at Burg near Magdeburg -------------------------------------------- user: EFR - Europaeische Funk-Rundsteuerung GmbH Nymphenburger Str. 39 80335 München Germany +49-891254-4681 phone +49-891254-4682 fax e-mail info@efr.de -------------------------------------------- operator: Deutsche Telekom AG -------------------------------------------- transmitter power 50 kW vertical monopole antenna 324m high EIRP about 40 kW (omnidirectional) -------------------------------------------- There are 5 (were 6) antennas on this site: (1) 210m vertical monopole 52d17m21s north 11d54m29s east This is a guyed isolated tubular mast used for BC transmissions of "Radioropa Info" on 261kHz powered by a Tesla Transmitter which is designed for nominal 200kW but presently operated with 50kW HFout (2) 210m vertical monopole This is a guyed isolated tubular mast presently unused formerly used for MW transmissions (3) 324m vertical biconical antenna 52d17m18s north 11d53m51s east This is a hexafilar wire antenna supported by fabric mast used for transmissions of DCF39 powered by Telefunken Transmitter which is a MOSFET amp providing 50kW HFout (4) triple, 70m octofilar horizontal dipole presently unused formerly used for MW transmissions (1575kHz Radio Berlin International) (5) 55m trideco antenna > presently unused > formerly used for MW transmissions as backup antenna NONEXISTENT - scrapped !!! (6) 55m trideco antenna presently unused formerly used for MW transmissions as backup antenna a=======use fixedsys font for best view======= a a N (5) A a | 52N17 a W--+--E 11E54 a | JO52WG a S (2)O a ========= (1)O a (4) ========= a ========= a (3) O a (6) A a=======use fixedsys font for best view======= -------------------------------------------- The frequency was formerly (<1995) allocated to DCF39, a transmitter located in Bad Vilbel (north of Frankfurt/Main). ========================================== --------------050805080200060607040805-- From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23472 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2000 10:42:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Apr 2000 10:42:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ebWb-0001HQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 11:34:33 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ebWZ-0001HK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 11:34:31 +0100 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id LAA28192; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 11:37:00 +0100 (BST) X-Priority: 3 Received: (qmail 25159 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2000 11:29:30 -0000 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 10 Apr 2000 11:29:30 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id KAA19705; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:22:30 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown(146.80.11.40) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma019676; Mon, 10 Apr 00 10:22:09 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 11:36:54 +0100 Received: by FRN-GOLD-1 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id <2J096640>; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 11:32:09 +0100 Message-ID: <3617AC3245C2D1118A840000F805359C0175284F@PDW-MERCURY-1> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: "'PLX'" Subject: LF: RE: TransAtlantic II Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 11:32:04 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: It would be unfortunate to limit ourselves to just use of these two relatively simple pieces of DSP software which at the end of the day are really just narrowband power detectors in not that narrow a bandwidth. Remember, the very first long distance QSO on 73kHz between myself and G3PLX was made in 0.04 Hz bandwidth using something like 300uW ERP with plenty of signal in hand - whereas the likes of Spectrogram can only get down to around 1.3 Hz BW. The same bandwidth can be achieved with a filter made from 5 watch crystals at 32 kHz - I've done it. . I feel there is a lot more to be gained by coherent integration techniques. Use of the VE2IQ software and other slow BPSK modes goes some way towards this, but all suffer badly from the need for clock recovery and tracking. The need to get initial timing information throws away much of the usefulness of this mode. The ultimate solution is to use GPS timing. I know quite a number of operators in the US are now using GPS locked frequency and time sources, and they are begining to make an appearance here. Having the transition points of the bit intervals known precisely to the microsecond (if the path length is known) leaves the signal recovery task to be merely an integration over whatever time is needed for the bandwidth with no lockup or preamble phase. TAPR have a range of GPS and frequency locking projects / kits. Who in the US Lowfer community have the DSP hardware, even if not the programming skills, to experiment with these techniques. Ideally, if a Motorola DSP 56002EVM module, GPS receiver and carrier frequency known accurately to milli Hz are availble software can be shared and experiments made with known equipment capabilities. Some people are going to spend lots of time/money/effort on antennas and PAs, why not put a similar effort into signal processing as well. So what if it takes 10 hours to send a message, at least it will have been sent from a station that does not have a farm on which to erect huge antennas. Andy G4JNT >>From VA3LK >There is precious little time left to develop computer DSP skills, such as >expert use of the software Spectrogram and Gram, .........- we have begun to understand the issues >involved in bringing TransAtlantic II to an operational status. -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28760 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2000 20:10:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Apr 2000 20:10:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ekM7-0002qs-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 21:00:19 +0100 Received: from snowball-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.116] helo=snowball.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ekM4-0002qQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 21:00:16 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from magic.excite.com ([199.172.148.161]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20000410173931.YYP23099.ewey.excite.com@magic.excite.com> for ; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:39:31 -0700 Message-ID: <32421868.955388371659.JavaMail.imail@magic.excite.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 10:39:31 -0700 (PDT) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re.L.F. Antennas. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 195.92.67.37 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Laurie, I have noticed that your signal is significantly stronger here in the last week. Whereas you were only S3 before, you are now 5 or 6. I am not quite sure where you are and you may be in a null of my receiving loop, but in any case there has been a definite improvement. BTW many thanks for the EZNEC print-outs received by post some time ago. I should have replied straight away, but didn't and then many new things piled up. Apologies. I finally settled on a 3 wire top and a vertical with a top loading coil, but until I finish the G0MRF transmitter, I won't know how good or bad it is. 73s John, G4CNN, Reading. _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7504 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2000 22:07:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Apr 2000 22:07:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12emCb-00035n-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 22:58:37 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12emCa-00035i-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 22:58:37 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id WAA28212 for ; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 22:58:18 +0100 X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <2000041021560168199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 21:56:01 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: LF: Re: 73/137kHz Xband Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Cesare, I5TGC, and I managed a 72.3kHz/ 137.72kHz cross-band QSO tonight starting at 1800UTC, 'M' both ways. Conditions have been better in the past but at least tonight they occured on 72 and 137kHz at the same time. I will transmit on QRSS 72.3kHz tomorrow from 1700UTC and look between 137.682 and 137.721kHz for anyone wanting a cross band QSO. -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15220 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2000 22:10:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Apr 2000 22:10:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12emHM-00038E-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 23:03:32 +0100 Received: from mail11.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.23]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12emHK-000389-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 23:03:31 +0100 Received: from modem-34.parrotfish.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.46.162] helo=lvm) by mail11.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12emH7-0003My-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 23:03:18 +0100 Message-ID: <000201bfa338$acc8cc80$a22e893e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: Re. Weekend Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 20:36:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi David,
Sorry I missed you at the weekend from Hastings,I didnt know what time you were operating,and I got rather busy with my new ant.
Re current I  guess that it depends on wether its going into lossy ground or not,
presumably the cliff face was quite close to the ant.and if its porous rock chalk
etc.it might hold a lot of water.
So far reports indicate that my new ant. is putting out a better signal than the old one.So I will have to try to find a theory to fit the fact that less wire but more spread out results in  lower ground loss
I look foreward to the Puckeridge experiments. are there any 136 stations close by?. I am still keen get some comparisons between high and low ants.
Best wishes, 73s Laurie.
.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19295 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2000 22:34:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Apr 2000 22:34:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12emdS-0003BW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 23:26:22 +0100 Received: from praseodumium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12emdR-0003BM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 23:26:22 +0100 Received: from [213.1.130.3] (helo=default) by praseodumium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12emb6-0006Mj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 23:23:57 +0100 Message-ID: <000701bfa33a$8c6dcce0$038201d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: extra Cluster spots from Wolf off DB0MBX Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 12:06:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Apologies for 'slipping' a month in the title of my main posting. Note an interesting comment from Wolf that he he did not hear ANY G-stations this weekend. ---------------------------------------------- Hallo Alan, here the spots appearing on db0mdx. Managed to work a few new ones ( for me) ok1mrs, ok1dtn, oz8nj (first oz) and dl3fdo who was unreachable for me because his tx frequency was exactly on a qrm carrier. But yesterday evening he changed his tx crystal and so we managed a qso. Very strange, but I did not hear any G-station during the whole weekend even though toni heared some. 73 de dl1san Wolf 137.0 OK1DTN 9-Apr-2000 1612Z 137.5 OE5ODL 9-Apr-2000 1602Z 136.2 OK1FIG 8-Apr-2000 1345Z HA6PC call him, but not hear 137.0 OK1FIG 8-Apr-2000 0717Z 137.0 OK1MRS 6-Apr-2000 1959Z cq vy weak nr Frankfurt 137.0 OZ1KMR 5-Apr-2000 1840Z cq cq 136.0 PA0SE 5-Apr-2000 1707Z First QSO 559/579 DX: 5 Km.. ---------------------------------- Thanks to Wolf again for his input. 73 de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13582 invoked from network); 10 Apr 2000 22:36:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 10 Apr 2000 22:36:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12emfJ-0003Bm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 23:28:17 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ds-img-4.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.137] helo=spdmgaad.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12emfH-0003BY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 23:28:15 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaad.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id SAA11863 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:26:17 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 18:25:46 -0400 From: "DEREK ATTER" Subject: Re: LF: Decca Masts To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200004101826_MC2-A0B1-715F@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Lech G3KAU and Derek G3GRO, Hello LFers, We hope to have a first foray to the Decca site at Puckeridge in Hertfordshire ( Loc IO91XS ) tomorrow 11th April to try to tune up the 300ft antenna mast ( top capacitance 3750pf !! ) on both 73 and 136Khz as a precursor to a more extensive spell of operation at the weekend 14/15/16th of April on 73 and 136Khz. We hope tomorrow to be QRV by about 1500 UTC transmitting during the "odd" hours (eg. 1500-1600 UTC) on 136Khz using the callsign G3WSC and G3GRO/P on 73KHz during the "even" hours with a reasonably accurate 1W ERP on both bands using the known efficiency figures previously established by Decca Ltd. It is hoped that this might establish some level of signal comparison on the two bands and perhaps allow calibration of home made signal strength meters. We will announce which band we are listening each time and expect to be on site until about 20-00 UTC at least.. We also hope to have a more extensive spell of operation next weekend with higher ERP for some limited spells (if the NOV is cleared in time) with ERP reducing in controlled steps. We also hope to be joined by other operators who have indicated their interest in taking advantage of the opportunity - these include Jim G0BMU and Mike G3XDV .We also hope to transmit using QRSS. We will post proposed schedules on the reflector after the visit tomorrow. For the record - despite another in the long stream on sour and knocking messages on the reflector from the direction of Scarborough, - the operation from the old Decca site is not "sponsored" by Racal Decca - we merely have the opportunity of access to the mast during the very limited period before the sites are being dismantled - and have a bit of fun in the process ! On the Decca site, our mobile telephone number for skeds etc. will be 07790 242930 73, G3KAU, G3GRO Home phone nos. (0)1293 522428 (KAU) and (0)1293 520424 (GRO) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10412 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2000 02:12:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Apr 2000 02:12:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12eq0x-0003io-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 03:02:51 +0100 Received: from smtp13.bellglobal.com ([204.101.251.52]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12eq0v-0003ij-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 03:02:50 +0100 Received: from server1 (Kingston-ppp108635.sympatico.ca [216.209.110.74]) by smtp13.bellglobal.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id WAA12981; Mon, 10 Apr 2000 22:05:50 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001601bfa359$b2c476e0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, "Talbot Andrew" , Peter.Martinez@btinternet.com, "Mitch Powell" , "Bill de Carle" Subject: LF: Re: RE: TransAtlantic II Date: Mon, 10 Apr 2000 22:00:18 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andrew: Thank you for your thoughtful memo! We are in violent agreement. This said I must bring several points to your attention. >It would be unfortunate to limit ourselves to just use of these two >relatively simple pieces of DSP software which at the end of the day are >really just narrowband power detectors in not that narrow a bandwidth. The piece from my announcement that mentions these two pieces of software was for domestic Canadian consumption. I am dealing with many amateurs here who have no exposure or experience with LF and specifically they have no experience with LF and using either of the mentioned software packages. >I feel there is a lot more to be gained by coherent integration >techniques. Yes, certainly, the work today needs to be rethought and redone enough to make optimum of very fine frequency control and specific benefit from the knowledge of time to a high degree of accuracy. I have been emailing with Bill, VE2IQ on this subject seeking to find out if he feels it is time to move to the next level. Our discussions are very preliminary at this point. >Use of the VE2IQ software and other slow BPSK modes goes >some way towards this, but all suffer badly from the need for clock >recovery and tracking. The need to get initial timing information >throws away much of the usefulness of this mode. Well, it is not now optimum in terms of what can be done today, but we not only need to see what can be done today but what the "reach" might be that would give us a real push forward. >The ultimate solution is to use GPS timing. I know quite a number of >operators in the US are now using GPS locked frequency and time sources, >and they are begining to make an appearance here. Well I am sitting here with an old HP 5248L frequency counter with the guts slowing coming out and the Oscillator awaiting the arrival of one of Brooks Shera's boards to let my OEM GPS receiver stabilize the HP Oscillator to a few parts in 10 to the -11th or so. >Having the >transition points of the bit intervals known precisely to the >microsecond (if the path length is known) leaves the signal recovery >task to be merely an integration over whatever time is needed for the >bandwidth with no lockup or preamble phase. Certainly. I understand the need, I do not have all the skills to pull it off alone. But I can promise you that my transmitter here will meet all such requirements. I have moved a Sulzer Labs high stability frequency standard into my remote HF radio site, from which I will transmit LF signals in Westport, and it will hold to a couple of parts in 10 to the -10th as it is without further help. >TAPR have a range of GPS and frequency locking projects / kits. Who in >the US Lowfer community have the DSP hardware, even if not the >programming skills, to experiment with these techniques. Ideally, if a >Motorola DSP 56002EVM module, GPS receiver and carrier frequency known >accurately to milli Hz are availble software can be shared and >experiments made with known equipment capabilities. Take this as offered, I am in an astonishingly high level of agreement with you. My side here is ready, the basics are in place here to develop a working system to a new level of accuracy. TAPR, as of a moment ago, do not seem to have completed the work with the TAC2 to stabilize an oscillator. Brooks Shera's work is available now and I am just waiting for him to let me know the final price for the pieces and then he will ship be the bits I need here. Please take a look at Brooks's site http://www.rt66.com/~shera/index_fs.htm I hope this will be useful to you. >Some people are going to spend lots of time/money/effort on antennas and >PAs, why not put a similar effort into signal processing as well. So >what if it takes 10 hours to send a message, at least it will have been >sent from a station that does not have a farm on which to erect huge >antennas. Andy, if we co-ordinated this announcement and your response we could not be in a stronger level of agreement. Lets identify one thing. The TransAtlantic II effort this coming fall will seek to do things with what we have now. We have no time to do more (in my opinion), it is pushing us hard to get ready for November. I drove 150 miles round trip today to interview a chap who used to tune up LF and Broadcast Band (ours) antennas. I have a tad more skill in this area tonight - and a pile of notes. When it comes to the next level, this is were I stand now. My friend Mitch, VE3OT is working the issues with me. My station here is already taking shape for the next level, I want to be part of this activity very much as it is what attracted me to the LF scene in the first place. I have written previously to David, G0MRF and to Dave, G3YXM about the use of AD9832, AD9835, and AD9850 DDS devices so we could have milliHz control of the DDS. David was kind enough to help me solve the exciter problem with one of his boards so the situation for November is settled. Just this morning I have had an offer from the US to get some boards that will fit the AD9835 device. We are trying to see if we can fabricate a board here that will work with the device. I have never worked with these thumb nail sized devices, but we are going to keep going till we have RX's and TX's that are slaved to GPS and we will have them here by this winter when we get back from VO1. For a start, until we have something better, I will start with Bill, VE2IQ's work. His system has let him hear the TEXAS LowFer beacon at his home north of Montreal. His GRAB capability is working here now. In the next few days we will start to test this system over some 300 mile path. If there is a way to go further, I want to be part of it and will do my best to be ready when anyone else is ready. My last comment. On February 11th we missed a chance to probably bridge the North Atlantic from here to the UK. I am not able to be here in the shack during all hours of darkness but I sure would like to work you, computer to computer, the next time we have a repeat of February 11th. I have a great huge fire bell here in the basement that I would really like to hook up to a computer that would go off when your signal is detected over here. Lets do it..... Larry VA3LK I am also sending a copy of this email to Mitch Powell and Bill de Carle, please include them in any reply From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4891 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2000 04:31:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Apr 2000 04:31:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12esFR-00041n-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 05:25:57 +0100 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12esFO-00041h-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 05:25:55 +0100 Received: from [202.27.178.43] by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <20000411041254.TNRT17687901.mta1-rme@[202.27.178.43]> for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 16:12:54 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <38F2A5B4.45A7@xtra.co.nz> Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 16:10:28 +1200 From: "vernall" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Parallel capacitance model References: <000201bfa2cd$05288440$c569883e@lvm> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: LAWRENCE MAYHEAD wrote: > > Hi All, > When I first set up my 136 station I put up a Marconi "T" vertical > ant. 15M high 30M long.The best ant. current I could get from my 400 > watt amplifier was 1.8 amps.The measured ground /coil/copper loss was > 125 ohm! Over the past 6 months I have tried to improve this, I have > increased the top to 3 wires,increased the grounding from 2x4 foot > rods plus house wiring/water etc to 10x 4 foot rods, 20 radials each > about 50 feet long plus one radial 150 feet long ending up at an earth > rod in sea water! I also re-made the loading coil with thicker > wire.The total result of all this effort was 2 Amps !!! Not very > encouraging.This weekend I decided to start again.I replaced the "T" > with an inv.L using the same support (tree) at one end but 60M long to > another tree.SO I now have less wire in the air 60M instead of 3x 30M > but stretched out.The loading inductance has not changed so the > capacitance is the same. BUT the ant current is now 3 Amps! > Does this mean that the antenna wire needs to have a longer "footprint > " on the ground?,presumably the current density is less than under the > 3 wire top,but the new ant stretches beyond my radial system,and it is > still much better!.Does this also explain the reported good > performance of so called "long wire" antennas on this band? > Food for thought. > I am hoping to > improve things further but I dont have room to extend the top wire in > a straight line,perhaps I will try a crooked L Hi. > Checks with Eznec indicate a R.Res of about .06 ohms for the "T " > and .0675 for the "L" so with the increased current I hope to have > improved my signal by at least 3db. > 73s Laurie. Some time back I did some impedance measurements on my top loaded vertical by testing the upwire, and also combinations with each top loading on or off. Of course the capacitance increased as wires were added, but it was changes in the resistive component that I was most interested in. As each top loading wire was added, the result was a generally lowering resistance. Lower resistance means more current for a given applied power, and obviously loss resistance is unwelcome in terms of improving LF transmission efficiency. At the good suggestion of Andrew ZL2BBJ, I constructed a spreadsheet that converted all the R+jX data to admittance (parallel conductance and suseptance, G+jB), as this is physically what happens with connection of top loading to the upwire. Having the basic information in parallel format strongly suggested that each "sector" added with coverage by a top loading wire was like adding lossy capacitors in parallel. A fresh sector covered by a top loading wire was like adding more capacitance with a similar "power factor" as could be scaled from the length of top loading wire. There would have been some proximity effect around the top of the upwire, reducing total capacitance when all wires were connected compared to each wire alone, but that can not be avoided. Note that I had several copper radials but it was far from being "copper plated". The net result was that the top loading model appeared to be very like connecting lossy capacitors in parallel. The input resistance (in R+jX thinking) at the base of the vertical should decrease somewhat in proportion to the extent of top loading width and fresh sectors covered. This suggests the wider the top loading the better, and that an X top should be better than for a T as it obviously covers "sideways" over "fresh ground". This also has a lowering current density per square (cubic?) metre of ground. In the case described by Laurie, he has increased top loading coverage from 3x30 metres T to 1x60 metres inverted L. The 3x30 metres of parallel wires has higher capacitance than one wire, but the ground covered is approximately a little more than 30 metres. The L top loading covers 60 metres of ground. This gives a distance ratio of a little under 2. As the current changed from 1.8 to 3 amps (a ratio of 1.67), then the end result is very similar to what I observed. Modelling using NEC-2 software does not support the practical data observed by Laurie or myself. However, NEC-2 software is rather hopeless at modelling real ground. Thus the parallel lossy capacitance model seems to have validity. I have not seen this described in an antenna theory book, but it would seem to be a plausible explanation for input resistance of amateur vertical LF antennas over ground. Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17302 invoked from network); 11 Apr 2000 20:13:08 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 11 Apr 2000 20:13:08 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12f6rP-0006PQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 21:02:07 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hs-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.177.150] helo=sphmgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12f6rN-0006PL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 21:02:06 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by sphmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id QAA03419 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 16:01:13 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 15:59:39 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Decca Masts/Signal Strength To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200004111600_MC2-A0D4-E39C@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello friends, the signal of G3WSC/p was -89 dBu here tonight at a distance of 697 km. Taking my correction factor into account (see http://www.qru.de/dbuv.html), the field strength was 19.1 dB microV/m. I could not copy the signal on 72.0 kHz, as I have got a carrier exactly on that frequency. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15564 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2000 08:19:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 2000 08:19:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fI9H-000890-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 09:05:19 +0100 Received: from cmailg5.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.175]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fI9D-00088v-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 09:05:15 +0100 Received: from modem-52.arathorn.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.121.180] helo=lvm) by cmailg5.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12fI8z-0000R4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 09:05:02 +0100 Message-ID: <000201bfa455$e73a5b40$b479883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: Re. Decca Masts. Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 09:04:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Fantastic signal here from Puckeridge! I used calibrated attenuator to obtain following comparitive signal strengths.
Stn.          Strength         Time
 
DCF39       S9+47db        1600
G6RO        S8+4              1615
G3WSC/P  S9+30            1705
ON6ND       S9+3             1733
DK9DX        S7+3             1745
PA0BWL     S7                 1755
G3WSC/P    S9+25          1825
G4GVC       S9+6              _         
PA0SE        S8                 _
MM0ALM     S9+3             1850
G3KEV        S9+6              1855
DCF39         S9+40            1900
 
73s Laurie
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19360 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2000 08:23:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 2000 08:23:29 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fIHx-0008An-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 09:14:17 +0100 Received: from gate3.oss.akzonobel.nl ([192.87.3.7]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fIHu-0008A0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 09:14:14 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from fwmaster@localhost) by gate3.oss.akzonobel.nl (8.9.1a/8.6.12) id KAA06791 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 10:13:29 +0200 (MET DST) Received: by gate3.oss.akzonobel.nl via smap (V1.3) id sma005459; Wed, 12 Apr 00 10:12:07 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by ras1.oss.akzonobel.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <2X2HWXGD>; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 10:12:07 +0200 Message-ID: <81B84E03FF6FD21197060000F87B128701ED613B@capella2.oss.akzonobel.nl> From: "Laken, W.H.P.A. van der \(Wil\)" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Decca Masts/Signal Strength Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 10:12:04 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello friends, The signal of G3WSC/p was 599 +5 dB (17:00 UTC) Best 73 Wil, PA0BWL (JO21ss) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20224 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2000 08:29:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 2000 08:29:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fINN-0008BY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 09:19:53 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fINK-0008BS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 09:19:50 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [195.44.140.54] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fIN5-0004BL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 08:19:38 +0000 Message-ID: <38F422C1.A543FFD1@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 07:16:17 +0000 From: "g3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: G3WSC/P acty Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: All at G3WSC/P. Nice signal yesterday early evening. Very strong but you had key clicks on the LF side of the signal on 136 khz covering a total of 250 hz. I expect the switched mode class D amplifier is the problem with such a high tower plus at least 1w erp. If you intend using more power out as you suggest then more rf filtering is essential plus using an amplifier in linear mode or use a valve linear amplifier, otherwise you will render the band inoperative for others Dave MM0ALM was also on the band yesterday at the same time and his signal is marginally stronger than you and he is further away from me. He does not have any key clicks, because his signal is generated as sine wave, then a valve amplifier and pi filtered output. Square wave generators/dividers and class D/E amplifiers are fine for small antennas and low erp but NOT SUITABLE for larger antennas and high power. An abundance of LPF and BP filters might help to clean up the signal. With my antenna system I use 3 cascaded 5 pole LPF FILTERS to overcome this problem when using a class D mosfet amplifier. Design data is available in the ARRL h/book using T-200 cores, and other alternatives. Good luck with the experiment but keep the signal clean so avoid swamping others on the band, and check your harmonics especially odd order, you might get a surprise at the intensity and surface wave propogation of these harmonics on these low frequencies. de G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7215 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2000 10:19:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 2000 10:19:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fK8Y-00002d-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 11:12:42 +0100 Received: from ulexite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fK8W-00002Y-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 11:12:41 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust128.tnt15.rtm1.nl.uu.net [213.53.4.128]) by ulexite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 85FE0FAEFB for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 09:11:23 -0100 (GMT) Message-ID: <003401bfa468$b89093a0$800435d5@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Fw: Opration from ex-Decca station Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 12:17:49 +0200 Organization: Freeler MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
 
 
To All from PA0SE
 
At 1737 UTC I heard and worked G3WSC/P with Derek, G3GRO at the key.
 
Their signal was -70 dBm (S9 + 3dB) at the receiver input. The corresponding field strength is 32 microvolt/meter. ERP was given as 1W and transmitter output as 10W.
 
At 2000 UTC I listened on 73 kHz but heard (or saw on Spectogram) no signal. But local noise level is pretty high in the evening hours.
 
I had just completed an untuned single turn screened loop with an area of 1 metre squared.
Connected to a Wandel & Goltermann selective level meter type SPM-12 (a recent acquisition) I measured the field strength of DCF139 (138.83kHz) in the shack at 2 mV/m and of DCF77 (77.5 kHz) at 3.2 mV/m. These values were used to find the relation between field strength and receiver input voltage.
 
When one of the coming days it is dry I will repeat the FS measurements in an open field. This can be easily done because the SPM-12 can also be fed from a 12 V battery.  The results will enable me to use the station receiver as a field strength meter at both 73 and 136 kHz.
 
I am looking forward to more of these interesting "Decca" tests!
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10055 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2000 10:38:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 2000 10:38:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fKQf-00006c-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 11:31:25 +0100 Received: from mta00.talk21.com ([62.172.192.40] helo=t21mta00-app.talk21.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fKQb-00006R-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 11:31:22 +0100 Received: from dave ([213.1.13.186]) by t21mta00-app.talk21.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20000412103013.MIZC11656.t21mta00-app.talk21.com@dave> for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 11:30:13 +0100 Message-ID: <002f01bfa46a$265d4a80$ba0d01d5@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: "rsgb_lf_group" References: <002a01bfa0a2$9b9320c0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> Subject: LF: Re: TransAtlantic II, test notice - announcement Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 11:30:10 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC I wish Larry and the VE team all the best for their forthcoming transatlantic tests - the choice of a period in November is excellent, and if there is a chance then (and December) is the optimum time. There has been discussion here on the use of sophisticated coherent reception techniques to achieve this aim. These may well be necessary, and it is going to be no mean task. However who knows what will happen next November. With the strength of CFH (and DCF39 in VE) some nights in the past season my feeling is that it may not be as hard as we think. In the event that a 2-way QSO is made using conventional CW and with antennas more in keeping with a normal amateur station I think it would be fair to give credit to that QSO, with a certificate or whatever, even though the first QSO qualifiying for the Challenge may indeed be with specialist techniques. I think it would have given Peter Bobek a very special thrill if his aims were met by a normal amateur using normal CW and an average station. It may prove difficult (and it is certainly not possible with my existing set up!) but it should not be considered impossible. Remember that at one time transatlantic QSOs on Top Band were the rarity, whereas today they are commonplace. 73s Dave dsergeant@iee.org http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1966 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2000 10:57:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 2000 10:57:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fKir-0000A8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 11:50:13 +0100 Received: from rubellite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fKiq-0000A3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 11:50:12 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust38.tnt6.rtm1.nl.uu.net [212.153.214.38]) by rubellite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 99B966BD73 for ; Tue, 11 Apr 2000 20:38:22 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000a01bfa3f7$16fd1e80$26d699d4@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: Opration from ex-Decca station Date: Tue, 11 Apr 2000 22:46:14 +0200 Organization: Freeler MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
To All from PA0SE
 
At 1737 UTC I heard and worked G3WSC/P with Derek, G3GRO at the key.
 
Their signal was -70 dBm (S9 + 3dB) at the receiver input. The corresponding field strength is 32 microvolt/meter. ERP was given as 1W and transmitter output as 10W.
 
At 2000 UTC I listened on 73 kHz but heard (or saw on Spectogram) no signal. But local noise level is pretty high in the evening hours.
 
I had just completed an untuned single turn screened loop with an area of 1 metre squared.
Connected to a Wandel & Goltermann selective level meter type SPM-12 (a recent acquisition) I measured the field strength of DCF139 (138.83kHz) in the shack at 2 mV/m and of DCF77 (77.5 kHz) at 3.2 mV/m. These values were used to find the relation between field strength and receiver input voltage.
 
When one of the coming days it is dry I will repeat the FS measurements in an open field. This can be easily done because the SPM-12 can also be fed from a 12 V battery.  The results will enable me to use the station receiver as a field strength meter at both 73 and 136 kHz.
 
I am looking forward to more of these interesting "Decca" tests!
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7807 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2000 12:59:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 2000 12:59:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fMbo-0000Uw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 13:51:04 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fMbm-0000Ur-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 13:51:03 +0100 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id NAA25551; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 13:53:31 +0100 (BST) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 26877 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2000 13:45:54 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 2000 13:45:54 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id MAA17238; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 12:38:44 GMT Received: from unknown(146.80.11.40) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma017208; Wed, 12 Apr 00 12:38:16 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 13:53:34 +0100 Received: by FRN-GOLD-1 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id <2J097382>; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 13:48:42 +0100 Message-ID: <3617AC3245C2D1118A840000F805359C01752857@PDW-MERCURY-1> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: "'LF Group'" Subject: LF: Coil winding conundrum Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 13:48:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Moving from LF to MF for a bit, here's a problem for the topband operators and loading coil winders. At the weekend I made a loading coil to resonate the LF Tee antenna on topband. 34uH was needed and the only suitable former to hand was 40mm plastic drain pipe - the white type with no significant RF loss. First off I used 27 turns close wound of 1mm enamelled wire (which was all that I had of that wire), and completed the coil with 20 turns of 0.7mm diameter tinned copper with turns wide spaced at 3mm to allow tapping points. This worked fine but I noticed the coil got a bit warm with 100 Watts and decided I needed a higher Q.... So, I made some Litz wire by twisting 20 strands of 0.25 mm diameter enamelled, which gives a copper X-sectional area a bit more than 1mm diameter equivalent. Overall Litz wire diameter about 1.8mm. 40 turns of this, close wound with a few taps gave near enough the same inductance value for a winding length of 72mm Q was measured by connecting a 680pF cap in parallel, exciting the circuit with a one turn coupling coil driven from a synth, very loosely coupled and monitoring voltage across the coil with a x10 scope probe. Peak response frequency was noted and then the points either side where the response fell to -3dB (0.707) to get the bandwidth. Then Qu = CF / BW Now for the interesting bit. When it came to measure the unloaded Q of each coil, the original one was a fair bit higher at Qu = 140, compared with the Litz wound coil with Qu = 95. Both coils were the same diameter, same inductance, and roughly the same length in total. So why was the one made of plain wire better ? Self capacitance ? Q was only measured at 1 MHz, perhaps I should try measuring gain at a lower frequency. Puzzled and curious.................. One interesting aside to come out though. Rayners formula for inductance predicted the values of each coil to better than 10% and bears out observations I've made over the years - such a simple formula for wound inductors is too good to be true, working over a range in excess of 1000000 : 1 L(uh) = (D.N) ^ 2 / (460.D + 1020 * length) D = mean diameter, mm N = turns Andy G4JNT -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14162 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2000 12:59:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 2000 12:59:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fMXP-0000Tl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 13:46:31 +0100 Received: from helios.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fMXO-0000Tg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 13:46:30 +0100 Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by helios.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 12fMUL-0005oz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 13:43:21 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <1645.200004121251@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 13:52:23 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Tuesday evening X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Derek & Lech (I don't know if Lech has an E-mail address) Thanks for an interesting evening at Puckeridge - It was good to meet up with yourselves and Mike, and also to play around with a 'real man's antenna'! I'm sure the weekend will go quite smoothly, now the preliminary debugging has been done. I don't think you have too much to worry about G3KEV's comments; the signal seemed pretty clean on my measuring receiver a few hundred yards away. I dried out one of those small variometers and tested it at 100kHz on an HP4275 LCR meter at the university - L is variable between 82 and 356uH, the equivalent series resistance stays pretty constant at around 0.6ohms. So it's just right for fine tuning a 136kHz loading coil. i spoke to Dave Lauder about your BT data line problem; he said he measured some rather large noise levels, and is going to E-mail you about his findings I'll be in touch again before Friday - I'm still thinking about setting up a smaller antenna for comparisons. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21658 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2000 13:49:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 2000 13:49:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fNRH-0000gZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 14:44:15 +0100 Received: from mail2.hamilton-standard.com ([153.4.57.12]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fNRF-0000fp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 14:44:14 +0100 Received: from curly.hsd.utc.com by mail2.hamilton-standard.com; (8.9.1/) id JAA13046; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 09:54:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from umrsvr.hsd.utc.com by curly.hsd.utc.com; (8.9.0/) id JAA07149; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 09:43:00 -0400 (EDT) Received: from nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com by umrsvr.hsd.utc.com; (8.9.0/) id JAA20742; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 09:39:43 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by nmex01nt.hsd.utc.com with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id <2V0NHZ2A>; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 15:31:51 +0100 Message-ID: From: "Soegiono, Gamal" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Coil winding conundrum Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 15:31:50 +0100 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Andy G4JNT G4JNT> Both coils were the same diameter, same inductance, and roughly G4JNT> the same length in total. So why was the one made of plain G4JNT> wire better ? Self capacitance ? No. Unless the "capacity" exhibits significant dielectric losses, great self capacitance does not harm in lieu of Q. What you probably have missed is to keep distance between individual turns of the coil's winding. The effect of closely winded turns is named proximitty effect. Current in one turn tends to displace the current in the adjacent turn and vice versa. At "high" frequency AC we know the skin effect. That is, current flow concentates on the perifery (surface) of a relatively large wire diameter, rather than to evenly cover the total X-section of the wire as it does for DC. If more than one wires are arranged to lay one beside the other, the proximitty effect adds on in reducing the effecitve X-section by displacing current flow even more as the skin-effect alone already does. When constructing loop antenna windings, I try to keep a clearance of at least 2 times the wire diameter in between individual turns and always get optimum Q. For solenoid type of coils I recommend a minimum of 1 wire's diameter of clearance. As the self-made Litz wire has a greater outer diameter, it's relative close proximitty to the next turn reduces Q much more than in the case of the solid wire. I recommend you build a third coil similar to the first one, where you keep a clearance, equivalent of one/two wire diameters. Try to keep the same aspect (coil former diameter to winding length) as in coil 1. Would be interesting to know the actual difference in Q then. best 73 de Gamal From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29316 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2000 14:18:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 2000 14:18:29 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fNsV-0000n3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 15:12:23 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.91]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fNsT-0000my-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 15:12:21 +0100 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12fNsB-000LUM-0X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 15:12:04 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 14:53:52 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: LF: Nonsense from G3KEV In-reply-to: <38F422C1.A543FFD1@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In message <38F422C1.A543FFD1@netscapeonline.co.uk>, g3kev writes >Square wave generators/dividers and class D/E amplifiers are fine for >small antennas and low erp but NOT SUITABLE for larger antennas and high >power. An abundance of LPF and BP filters might help to clean up the >signal. Absolute rubbish! 73, Tom G3OLB > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16855 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2000 15:24:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 2000 15:24:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fOuM-00011j-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 16:18:22 +0100 Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fOuJ-00011e-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 16:18:20 +0100 Received: from modem-122.hippo-tang.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.28.122] helo=lvm) by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12fOu4-0007CN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 16:18:05 +0100 Message-ID: <000201bfa492$66d24520$7a1c893e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: Re. Decca Masts Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 16:18:03 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
The performance of the Decca Ant. is quite intresting, the "gain"or at least the advantage over the normal amateur installation appears to be at least 20db
(comparison with G4GVC at this location for example). This is tremendous and
I dont see how it can be attributed to the height alone,conventional wisdom says
that a short vertical has the same radiation pattern as a full sise one,and even 300 feet is far short of full sise.So where do we look  for the explanation? It now seems even more important to do a comparison with a "normal" ant.on site or near by.
I will be around at the weekend to do more comparisons.Many thanks to the teams for giving us this unique opportunity. 73s Laurie. 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4100 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2000 16:23:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 2000 16:23:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fPpV-0001Cu-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 17:17:25 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from imo27.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.71]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fPpR-0001Cn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 17:17:21 +0100 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo27.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id l.6c.2e85b34 (3969) for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 12:16:29 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <6c.2e85b34.2625fb5d@aol.com> Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 12:16:29 EDT Subject: Re: LF: Re. Decca Masts To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 102 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 4/12/00 11:22:56 AM Eastern Daylight Time, LAURIE@g3aqc.freeserve.co.uk writes (excerpted): << The performance of the Decca Ant. is quite interesting, the "gain"or at least the advantage over the normal amateur installation appears to be at least 20db.... This is tremendous and I dont see how it can be attributed to the height alone, conventional wisdom says that a short vertical has the same radiation pattern as a full sise one,and even 300 feet is far short of full sise. So where do we look for the explanation? >> This is not at all difficult to explain. The radiation pattern has very little to do with the difference in signal strength, because as Laurie states, it's not that much different for 300 feet. But, none the less, that difference in height does make a serious difference in the efficiency of the antenna system! Remember a discussion that appeared here previously...it is not enough to compare two antennas based on pattern gain. The net gain or loss of one antenna relative to another must take into account both the vertical and azimuthal patterns, AND LOSSES. The radiation resistance of a 300 foot mast is significantly greater than for a 50 or even 100 foot antenna. Add the fact that losses in the commercial-grade ground system will be lower, and that the installation is probably more clear of local environmental loss contributors (trees, etc.), and you have a tremendous improvement in efficiency over what most amateurs can hope to achieve. If the 20 db figure is a good approximation of the observed difference, the radiation resistance resulting from the increased antenna height is a major component of the total improvement. 73, John From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19258 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2000 17:30:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 2000 17:30:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fQp2-0001O3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 18:21:00 +0100 Received: from hugo.fen.baynet.de ([194.95.193.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fQp1-0001Nv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 18:20:59 +0100 Received: from 194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de (dialin-nbg-122.fen.baynet.de [195.37.215.2]) by hugo.fen.baynet.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id TAA24577 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 19:20:33 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <000801bfa232$03686120$02d725c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de> From: "Walter Staubach" To: "Reflektor" Subject: LF: Tests at the weekend Date: Sun, 9 Apr 2000 16:42:57 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hallo G3WSC and G3GRO, heard you yesterday 579 in JN59NO near Nuremberg. Heard your QSOs with the stations in westen europe. Called you several times, but no chance. Please give the others far away a chance by sometimes calling "cq dx 500 up" or similar. Thank you. 73 Walter DJ2LF --------------------------------------------- Walter.Staubach@fen.baynet.de From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28357 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2000 17:38:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 2000 17:38:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fQxD-0001PL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 18:29:27 +0100 Received: from kuku-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.63] helo=kuku.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fQxB-0001P0-00 for RSGB_LF_GROUP@BLACKSHEEP.ORG; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 18:29:26 +0100 Received: from bubbles.excite.com ([199.172.153.29]) by kuku.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20000412172058.FAHC12342.kuku.excite.com@bubbles.excite.com> for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 10:20:58 -0700 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <2690488.955560058209.JavaMail.imail@bubbles.excite.com> Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 10:20:58 -0700 (PDT) From: "john sexton" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: RSGB_LF_GROUP@BLACKSHEEP.ORG Subject: LF: G4KLF and G3WSC signal reports MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 62.7.135.193 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Tony and Derek, These reports probably don't add much to what you already know, but in the hope of adding to the overall picture: G4KLF was S7 on my meter here in Reading on Saturday 8 April, a good signal at 40 degrees from the plane of my loop antenna. G3WSC was 10dB over S9 yesterday 11 April. Now I know what 1 watt sounds like! Puckeridge is 50 miles from me and at an angle of 35 degrees from the plane of my loop. Congratulations to all involved. 73, John, G4CNN, IO91ML _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17710 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2000 18:10:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 2000 18:10:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fRRk-0001Vd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 19:01:00 +0100 Received: from helios.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fRRj-0001VY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 19:00:59 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by helios.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 12fROg-0003wC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 18:57:50 +0100 Message-ID: <14849.200004121806@gemini> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 19:06:57 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Weekend on 73kHz / Puckeridge Decca Station X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Had an exciting weekend on 73kHz, with some new stations, and several nice cross-band QSOs. On Friday evening, I had a 73kHz contact with John, G4GVC, who alerted me to the fact that GW4ALG and GI3PDN were listening on the band for possible cross-band QSO's. I tried calling them, but the noise level was too high by this time. I could hear Steve on 136 though, and QSY'd to 136 to arrange a sked for the morning. On Saturday morning we had an excellent QSO, R5 in both directions. A little later, I was very pleased to work Ray, with 549 reports both ways. In the afternoon, a 73 kHz QSO with G3YXM revealed that EI0CF was also looking for cross-band contacts, and sure enough, on Sunday morning I was able to work Finbar, again R5 both ways. A little later, G3OLB popped up, and we were able to have the cross-band contact we just missed out on a few weeks before. I also had a QSO with Lech, G3KAU for the first time on 73kHz. Also worked G4KLF with the Hastings 'beach party' on 136kHz, but heard nothing from them on 73kHz . I wasn't able to finish my field strength meter in time to measure their signal, but measurements of the receiver audio output showed them to be down 3dB on nearby G3BDQ. DJ9IE was an excellent signal too, and was only 6dB down on G4KLF. EI0CF is now my best DX on 73kHz using normal CW, and IK5ZPV with QRSS, but who knows... Rugby was still silent this morning, and the band is eerily quiet with the Decca stations gone. However, the QRN levels are rising in the hours of darkness, although there is relatively small amounts of static on the band from early morning until early evening. Yesterday evening I met up with G3GRO and G3KAU from the Crawley club, and G3XDV, at the Decca site near Puckeridge. The antenna is very imposing, being a self-supporting mast on top of a small hill, surrounded by largely open country. The shack is a copper-lined hut under the base of the mast. The design of the antenna is quite a puzzle; the mast is insulated, and the antenna feed is connected near the base of the mast. It has top loading consisting of 8 steeply sloping wires reaching almost to ground level, in a rather narrow 'umbrella' style ('rolled umbrella'?), which seems to go against the accepted wisdom. It certainly works though, with all those good reports from only a few watts from the TX. Tuning up on 73kHz required a lot of head scratching, but it worked in the end, and should be no problem at the weekend. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20425 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2000 18:40:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 2000 18:40:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fRyI-0001cP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 19:34:38 +0100 Received: from hs-img-3.compuserve.com ([149.174.177.148] helo=sphmgaac.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fRyH-0001cF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 19:34:37 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by sphmgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id OAA27207 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 14:33:53 -0400 (EDT) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 14:33:41 -0400 From: "DEREK ATTER" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Report on Decca ant. tests 11 April 2000 - G3WSC/P To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200004121433_MC2-A0F7-C832@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Re the initial on-air tests using the de-commissioned Decca mast at Puckeridge yesterday : We were rather later than planned getting on air on 136Khz due to delays and heavy traffic on the motorway round London and also due to having to hump the gear in heavy rain from the car 200m to the antenna hut! The main objectives of this initial session were firstly to establish that we could actually tune up the antenna on both 136 and 73 khz with our matching and loading coils given that the base impedance looks like 3750pf in series with about 5 ohms resistive. The height of the antenna mast which is similar to the Eiffel tower in shape, is 100m (325ft) with an extensive earth mat system. The second objective was to radiate as near as possible 1W ERP on both bands given the known efficiency of the antenna sytem at several frequencies (including the original very large loading coils) correcting for the somewhat higher loss of our quite small loading coil/variometer And then finally make some QSOs as time permitted given that we had a 2 hour drive home!. We had very little trouble in loading up on 136khz apart from a PTT line problem at the start between the transceiver and TX. The transmitter was a linear amplifier operating in class B with a low pass filter at the output and the sinewave output shape monitored by an oscilloscope. At the base of the loading coil to ground was a tapped toroidal auto transformer with an optimum impedance transformation ratio of 10 to 1 (ie 50 ohms at the TX input and 5 ohms in the base of the antenna system.) we also needed a 5000pf HV capacitor (25Kv wkg !) in series with the antenna to enable our variometer to tune. The estimated efficiency based on the original measured Decca figures was 10% and we therefore ran 10 watts at 136khz into the matching transformer in base of the antenna monitored by a forward and reverse power meter. At our first test call we immediately had a pile up and had a number of QSOs before it was time to change over to 73Khz to try to tune up on that band. Our apologies to those we were not able to work in our first spell but our main operating sessions are planned to be on Fri/Sat/ and possibly Sunday 14/15/16 April we will post info on the planned operating times soon as possible - depending on whether or not we get our higher power licence variation in time. Tuning up on 73khz proved unfortunately to be much more difficult than we expected with the coils etc which we had taken with us and it took us a long time to get going on that band due to interaction between tuning and matching adjustments although we did eventually get an acceptable match and tuning position. We were joined during the evening by Jim M0BMU and Mike G3XDV who live fairly locally and who helped to solve the matching problem. We did then manage to work Dave G3YXM on 73Khz but unfortunately by then it was time to pack up and go home arriving home at 23-30 UTC (00-30 local ! ) Stations worked : 136Khz : DJ6FU (559 sent , 569 recvd ) ; ON6ND (589 sent, 599+ recvd); DK9DX (579 sent, 599 recvd) DL3FDO (569 sent, 559 recvd) ; ON7YD (579 sent, 599 recvd) G4GVC (599 sent 599+ 50dB recvd !!) DJ9IE (579 sent 599+10dB) PA0SE (579 sent, 599 recvd) 73Khz : G3YXM (579 sent, 589 recvd) It was noticeable that the Loran QRM although much stronger in absolute terms, was lower in relation to incoming amateur signals than at the home station in Crawley further South in IO91VC. Later there was also a high level of QRN due to a rain storm from about 1800 UTC especially on 73 Khz. Thanks to those people who have sent signal reports via E-mail etc. and also gave these two old codgers ( sum of our ages 148 !!) verbal support. 73, de Lech, G3KAU & Derek G3GRO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1661 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2000 19:22:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 2000 19:22:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fSYY-0001jL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 20:12:06 +0100 Received: from merlins.plus.net.uk ([195.166.128.23] helo=merlins.force9.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fSYW-0001jB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 20:12:04 +0100 Received: (qmail 28747 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2000 19:13:46 -0000 Received: from rack.servers.plus.net.uk (212.159.2.65) by merlins.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 2000 19:13:46 -0000 Received: (qmail 28780 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2000 19:12:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO main) (212.159.76.14) by rack.servers.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 2000 19:12:32 -0000 Message-ID: <009a01bfa4b3$a647fc60$0600a8c0@main> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <38F422C1.A543FFD1@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: G3WSC/P acty Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 20:08:43 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Eh what?? > Square wave generators/dividers and class D/E amplifiers are fine for > small antennas and low erp but NOT SUITABLE for larger antennas and high > power. An abundance of LPF and BP filters might help to clean up the > signal. I think you're getting confused with high levels of harmonic output, which class D amplifiers can suffer from if not properly filtered, and sideband energy from fast rise and fall times of the transmitted envelope. LPF will NOT help! This can happen with any kind of amplifier, I key my class D PA with a tailored rise and fall, series device. Oh, and by the way, they were using a linear amplifier! (It was a little bit clicky though...) Dave 'YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2828 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2000 19:28:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 2000 19:28:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fSYZ-0001jM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 20:12:07 +0100 Received: from mashie.force9.net ([195.166.128.30]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fSYW-0001jC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 20:12:04 +0100 Received: (qmail 13461 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2000 19:13:55 -0000 Received: from rack.servers.plus.net.uk (212.159.2.65) by mashie.force9.net with SMTP; 12 Apr 2000 19:13:55 -0000 Received: (qmail 28784 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2000 19:12:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO main) (212.159.76.14) by rack.servers.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 2000 19:12:33 -0000 Message-ID: <009b01bfa4b3$a72b5780$0600a8c0@main> From: "Dave" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3617AC3245C2D1118A840000F805359C01752857@PDW-MERCURY-1> Subject: LF: Re: Coil winding conundrum Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 20:13:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andy I found the same thing on topband and was puzzled so I did some tests. Only below 500kHz did the particular grade of (quite thick) litz wire exhibit an improvement. As for why... I don't know, but the Fine Wire Company, which makes the stuff has tables of spec for Litz and you have to use the right grade for the frequency in use, presumably to match the skin effect to the strand diameter. Interesting stuff. Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28484 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2000 19:31:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 2000 19:31:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fSlI-0001lP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 20:25:16 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fSlH-0001lK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 20:25:15 +0100 Received: from as31-s16-147-48.cwci.net ([195.44.147.48] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fSl4-0003Tj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 19:25:02 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <38F476A8.1FB10252@netscapeonline.co.uk> Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 13:14:16 +0000 From: "g3kev" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: LOC G3WSC/P Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: GPS calc. G3KEV- IO94SH ---------G3WSC/P- IO91XS--------AZ 175, DISTANCE 287.3 Kms G3KEV- IO94SH -------- MM0ALM- IO87UA--------AZ 340, DISTANCE 320.8 Kms MM0ALM is 2db stronger and a clean signal. G3WSC/P has key clicks on LF side of signal. with total spread of 250 hz. Observations 1830/11/04/2000 de G3KEV/SCARBOROUGH. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23493 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2000 21:14:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 2000 21:14:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fUN5-00023Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 22:08:23 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fUN4-00023I-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 22:08:23 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from as32-s16-148-230.cwci.net ([195.44.148.230] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fUMn-0001GR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 21:08:05 +0000 Message-ID: <38F4C6F6.61D3EDD7@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 18:56:54 +0000 From: "g3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Tuesday evening References: <1645.200004121251@gemini> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: James Moritz wrote: > Dear Derek & Lech (I don't know if Lech has an E-mail address) > > Thanks for an interesting evening at Puckeridge - It was good to > meet up with yourselves and Mike, and also to play around with a > 'real man's antenna'! I'm sure the weekend will go quite smoothly, > now the preliminary debugging has been done. > > I don't think you have too much to worry about G3KEV's > comments; the signal seemed pretty clean Seemed pretty clean!!!!!!!!!!!. Was it or was it not? With my real size antenna it WAS NOT. If there seems to any controversy in the future then an opinion from a third party would be useful like the RIS. > on my measuring > receiver a few hundred yards away. > > I dried out one of those small variometers and tested it at 100kHz > on an HP4275 LCR meter at the university - L is variable between > 82 and 356uH, the equivalent series resistance stays pretty > constant at around 0.6ohms. So it's just right for fine tuning a > 136kHz loading coil. > > i spoke to Dave Lauder about your BT data line problem; he said > he measured some rather large noise levels, and is going to E-mail > you about his findings > > I'll be in touch again before Friday - I'm still thinking about setting > up a smaller antenna for comparisons. > Cheers, Jim Moritz > 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18128 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2000 21:14:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 2000 21:14:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fUNY-00023o-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 22:08:52 +0100 Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fUNX-00023H-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 22:08:51 +0100 Received: from [202.27.181.6] by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <20000412210753.JESW8102390.mta3-rme@[202.27.181.6]> for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 09:07:53 +1200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <38F4E429.1A94@xtra.co.nz> Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 09:01:29 +1200 From: "vernall" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Coil winding conundrum References: <3617AC3245C2D1118A840000F805359C01752857@PDW-MERCURY-1> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Talbot Andrew wrote: snip snip > Now for the interesting bit. When it came to measure the unloaded Q of > each coil, the original one was a fair bit higher at Qu = 140, compared > with the Litz wound coil with Qu = 95. Both coils were the same > diameter, same inductance, and roughly the same length in total. So > why was the one made of plain wire better ? Self capacitance ? Q > was only measured at 1 MHz, perhaps I should try measuring gain at a > lower frequency. Agreed it is interesting. My suggestion is that the Litz wire (with end wires all bonded together) forms many loops from end to end, and this gives additional modes of current flow, especially in the high impedance unloaded situation. In the unloaded case a single wire has no loop except via the resonating test capacitor. In the loaded case the external shunting of the load is in parallel with the coil, so reduces any internal loop effect that may be present in the Litz wire. When the coil is loaded (which is the only useful application) the Litz wire hopefully has the lowest series RF resistance for current (that carries on into the load, which is different to the unloaded test situation). You did not report in your findings if the Litz wire coil ran cooler than the single wire coil, but I am presuming it did. 73, Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23555 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2000 21:14:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 2000 21:14:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fUND-00023b-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 22:08:31 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fUN3-00023O-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 22:08:21 +0100 Received: from as32-s16-148-230.cwci.net ([195.44.148.230] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fUMq-0001Gc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 21:08:09 +0000 Message-ID: <38F4D6D1.2CC9E7F5@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 20:04:33 +0000 From: "g3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: TransAtlantic II, test notice - announcement References: <002a01bfa0a2$9b9320c0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> <002f01bfa46a$265d4a80$ba0d01d5@dave> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave Sergeant wrote: > >From Dave G3YMC > > I wish Larry and the VE team all the best for their forthcoming > transatlantic tests - the choice of a period in November is excellent, and > if there is a chance then (and December) is the optimum time. > > There has been discussion here on the use of sophisticated coherent > reception techniques to achieve this aim. These may well be necessary, and > it is going to be no mean task. However who knows what will happen next > November. With the strength of CFH (and DCF39 in VE) some nights in the past > season my feeling is that it may not be as hard as we think. In the event > that a 2-way QSO is made using conventional CW and with antennas more in > keeping with a normal amateur station I think it would be fair to give > credit to that QSO, with a certificate or whatever, even though the first > QSO qualifiying for the Challenge may indeed be with specialist techniques. > > I think it would have given Peter Bobek a very special thrill if his aims > were met by a normal amateur using normal CW and an average station. It may > prove difficult (and it is certainly not possible with my existing set up!) > but it should not be considered impossible. Remember that at one time > transatlantic QSOs on Top Band were the rarity, whereas today they are > commonplace. A very sensible observation. The whole LF senario is becomming rediculous. A couple of good cw operators at each end and a good antenna that the radio amateur has engineered and installed himself. How can anyone claim any credit/achievement using a commercial antenna system and data systems that need chip rate detectors controlled by computers. This is getting away from what is considered the norm in amateur radio. It is more like Robotic amateur radio and appliance operating. Top prize on 136 khz should go to those that have built their own TX/Antenna/and have the ability to send/receive morse code at a suitable speed to make the qso across the Atlantic or elswhere. Secondary any other mode that one cares to use with their own antenna and commercial antenna farms are totally non amateur radio. G3KEV > > > 73s Dave > dsergeant@iee.org > http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18916 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2000 21:18:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 2000 21:18:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fUN4-00023T-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 22:08:22 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fUN2-00023J-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 22:08:20 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from as32-s16-148-230.cwci.net ([195.44.148.230] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fUMo-0001GX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 21:08:07 +0000 Message-ID: <38F4CF75.B42A1976@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 19:33:10 +0000 From: "g3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Nonsense from G3KEV References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Tom Boucher wrote: > In message <38F422C1.A543FFD1@netscapeonline.co.uk>, g3kev > writes > >Square wave generators/dividers and class D/E amplifiers are fine for > >small antennas and low erp but NOT SUITABLE for larger antennas and high > >power. An abundance of LPF and BP filters might help to clean up the > >signal. If you read the literature published by one of the researchers/experimenters of class D/E amplifiers, he states that if you push the amplifiers, which most amateurs do, and do not pay attention to the LPF, you are then radiating a distorted square wave, with all its odd order harmonics, he goes on to say that for larger than normal antenna systems one would need possible more than the normal 5 pole filter between the mosfets and the antenna. I own a quality spectrum analyser and can verify what he says to be correct. Very few signals generated by such amplifiers and used by radio amateurs have a pure sine wave output after one 5 pole LPF, except at very low power levels, also have a look at the ripple content super imposed on the signal because the power supplies normally used by radio amateurs are not regulated or well smoothed. . With your modest amplifier and long wire a few feet above ground you have nothing to worry about. G3KEV > > > Absolute rubbish! > > 73, Tom G3OLB > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26601 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2000 21:25:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 2000 21:25:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fUYK-00027K-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 22:20:00 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fUYJ-00027B-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 22:19:59 +0100 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id WAA32283 for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 22:19:46 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <2000041221190568199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 21:19:05 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: Re: LF: Coil winding conundrum Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit > G4JNT> Both coils were the same diameter, same inductance, and roughly > the same length in total. So why was the one made of plain > wire better ? Self capacitance ? Gamal> No. Unless the "capacity" exhibits significant dielectric losses, > great self capacitance does not harm in lieu of Q. > What you probably have missed is to keep distance between > individual turns of the coil's winding. The effect of closely > winded turns is named proximitty effect. Current in one turn > tends to displace the current in the adjacent turn and vice versa. > When constructing loop antenna windings, I try to keep a clearance > of at least 2 times the wire diameter in between individual turns and > always get optimum Q. For solenoid type of coils I recommend a minimum > of 1 wire's diameter of clearance. > As the self-made Litz wire has a greater outer diameter, it's > relative close proximitty to the next turn reduces Q much more > than in the case of the solid wire. I use a 400uH commercial variometer in series with my main loading coil for tuning. This single layer solenoid coil is wound with Litz wire and the spacing is about 1.5 wire diameter. The main loading coil is wound on plastic fencing material formed into a cylinder. It was not possible to maintain a one wire spacing so I compromised and wound the coil in 'bunches' of 10 windings. A lot of effort goes into the design of professional LF coil design, to reduce adjacent wire proximity while retaining a managable small size as can be seen in the design of the Decca transmitter coil formers (hopefully, more will be reveilled when I can figure it out). Fairly complex coil design articles appeared in early publications, which described basket and honeycomb winding patterns. I will try to get some of this into the next edition of the LF Book - the main problem is the illustrations! -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2612 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2000 21:52:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 2000 21:52:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fUyi-0002Cg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 22:47:16 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fUyh-0002Cb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 22:47:15 +0100 Received: from as31-s15-146-78.cwci.net ([195.44.146.78] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fUyT-00038g-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 21:47:02 +0000 Message-ID: <38F4E010.C77EA2D6@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 20:44:00 +0000 From: "g3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: G3WSC/P acty References: <38F422C1.A543FFD1@netscapeonline.co.uk> <009a01bfa4b3$a647fc60$0600a8c0@main> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave wrote: > Eh what?? > > > Square wave generators/dividers and class D/E amplifiers are fine for > > small antennas and low erp but NOT SUITABLE for larger antennas and high > > power. An abundance of LPF and BP filters might help to clean up the > > signal. > > I think you're getting confused with high levels of harmonic output, which > class D amplifiers can suffer from if not properly filtered, and sideband > energy from fast rise and fall times of the transmitted envelope That is what I said about filtering, the LPF if designed to cut off just above the operating frequency will inhibit the harmonics. Most of the recent designs are divider systems(square waves)followed by mosfets and because of their nature comprise 3/5/7 and beyond odd order harmonics. If there is inadequate filtering following the mosfets then the output is part square wave. > . > LPF will NOT help! That is exactly what a LPF filter is for ie to reduce or suppress harmonics between an amplifier and the antenna. What did you think a LPF was for.???? The ARRL handbook explains exactly what they do, and gives all the design information for all applications. > > > This can happen with any kind of amplifier, I key my class D PA with a > tailored rise and fall, series device. It CAN happen to any class of amplifier but a sinewave signal source fed to a well designed linear amplifier will be less prone to harmonic problems, especially a tube amplifier. > > > Oh, and by the way, they were using a linear amplifier! > (It was a little bit clicky though...) Glad you agree there were CLICKS. They were very noticeable on the LF side of the transmission. The signal spread was 250 hz and as I said MM0ALM was 2 db stronger but a clean signal using his tube amplifier. I hope they get it cleaned up before the next visit. If it was supposed to be LINEAR is was obviously NON linear, the keying seemed hard. > > > Dave 'YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10373 invoked from network); 12 Apr 2000 22:23:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 12 Apr 2000 22:23:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fVEz-0002GO-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 23:04:05 +0100 Received: from phobos.unica.co.uk ([208.239.240.147] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fVEy-0002GG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 23:04:04 +0100 Received: from [195.44.18.25] (helo=zork) by phobos.unica.co.uk with asmtp (Exim 3.13 #2) id 12famE-0004Lu-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 23:58:47 -0400 Message-ID: <03b601bfa4ca$aa9f9f40$de46a8c0@unica.co.uk> From: "Peter Bowyer" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002a01bfa0a2$9b9320c0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> <002f01bfa46a$265d4a80$ba0d01d5@dave> <38F4D6D1.2CC9E7F5@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: Re: LF: Re: TransAtlantic II, test notice - announcement Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 23:01:32 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I don't normally post here, but.... G3KEV wrote :- > Secondary any other mode that one cares to use with their own antenna and > commercial antenna farms are totally non amateur radio. Why so intolerant? The Decca experimentors are radio amateurs, taking advantage of the unique availability of some ex-commercial equipment to push further the boundaries in this area. Come on, there's room for all here? Nobody says you have to join in if you don't want to. If no radio amateur had ever used any ex-commercial equipment the hobby would be somewhat poorer, I think. > How can anyone claim any > credit/achievement using a commercial antenna system and data systems that need > chip rate detectors controlled by computers Personally I take my hat off to the skill and knowledge of the likes of G4JNT - again, the envelope is being pushed in another fascinating direction. And again, if *you* don't want to do it, be our guest and don't. There's room for all. Peter G4MJS Reflector Keeper - blacksheep.org From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28779 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2000 00:01:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Apr 2000 00:01:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fWzO-0002cS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 00:56:06 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fWz1-0002cH-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 00:55:43 +0100 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id AAA19234 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 00:55:30 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <2000041223543468199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 23:54:34 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: LF: Re: TransAtlantic II Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit > From Dave G3YMC > I wish Larry and the VE team all the best for their forthcoming > transatlantic tests - the choice of a period in November is excellent, and > if there is a chance then (and December) is the optimum time. > I think it would have given Peter Bobek a very special thrill if his aims > were met by a normal amateur using normal CW and an average station. I don't recall that DJ8WL had any hang-ups about using QRSS - in fact all my QSOs with him used this mode Of the modes proposed for these Transatlantic tests the extremes are 30 or 40WPM CW and slow CW that would take several hours. From experiance gained in the last couple of weeks in crossband tests on 72kHz/137kHz, mainly with I5TGC, I feel that the following notes may be of some interest. Even in good conditions a signal radiated from 1W erp is going to be very weak by the time it has travelled 3000km, even on a sea path. In periods of exceptional conditions such a signal may be audible but a much greater chance of success can be had by using QRSS. This can illustrated by a 72/137kHz cross-band I had with OH9UFO. Reino was using nomal CW on 137kHz. I was a comfortable 'O' on QRSS. I was asked to try fast CW and Reino copied his report and gave me 329 - then lost it. This QSO was very marginal and if it wasn't for the inital QRSS contact it would not have happened. We have very little knowledge of the long distance propagation mechanism of weak signals at LF. All we can say is (from observing commercial stations) that they seem better in Winter at around 0400UTC for this path. The greater the distance the shorter the openings so digging the signal out of the noise using very long integration times is impractical. The openings for the I5TGC experiments lasted half an hour, which gave plenty of time for QRSS with a dot length of 3 or 4 seconds. Exceptional conditions can occur any time so we should not confine the tests to special expeditions. We should have a plan. -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12852 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2000 00:01:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Apr 2000 00:01:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fWzG-0002cQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 00:55:58 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from imo26.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.70]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fWzB-0002cF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 00:55:53 +0100 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo26.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id l.c5.407ddb9 (4366) for ; Wed, 12 Apr 2000 19:55:02 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Wed, 12 Apr 2000 19:55:01 EDT Subject: Re: LF: (More) Nonsense from Kev To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 32 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 4/12/00 10:16:44 PM GMT Daylight Time, g3kev@netscapeonline.co.uk writes: << Very few signals generated by such amplifiers and used by radio amateurs have a pure sine wave output after one 5 pole LPF, except at very low power levels, >> Hello. I think you will find that the relative level of harmonics (dBc) will depend on the characteristics of the LPF and source / load impedances i.e. the correct filter terminating impedance, and not the applied power levels. Equally: The relative level of radiated harmonics (dBc) is generally speaking independent of antenna whether it's at 130 feet or a long wire a "few feet off the ground" "amateurs....push class D/E amplifier too hard" - With square wave drive the harder they are driven, the better they are. No one has a pure sinewave output. A low pass filter will not remove key clicks as they are within the passband of the LPF. 90% of multikilowatt MF broadcasters use class D/E etc. Surprisingly, the UK amateur radio licence allows up to 1% of energy to fall outside the amateur bands, so this would not be of any interest to the RIS. In anycase 250Hz is 'inband' and would be considered a problem to be resolved by the band's users. - If it was considered a problem at all. Using a computer and spectran / gram clearly demonstrates the larger bandwidth occupied by fast CW transmissions. As the band is very narrow, should we put an upper speed limit on CW - to limit the occupied bandwidth? (Hi) Goodness Mal. They only had a mast bigger than yours. "So many negative vibes" - Donald Sutherland. 73 David From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25647 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2000 00:53:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Apr 2000 00:53:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fXnM-0002lr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 01:47:44 +0100 Received: from [195.147.248.109] (helo=sand.global.net.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fXnK-0002lg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 01:47:42 +0100 Received: from p81s08a07.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.232.130] helo=howett) by sand.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12fXn7-0006UG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 01:47:30 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Comments: Authenticated sender is From: howett@mail.globalnet.co.uk To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 01:47:52 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Coil winding conundrum In-reply-to: <38F4E429.1A94@xtra.co.nz> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, Very interesting discussion re coil Q - not certain of the true reason for the effect, but note that the quest for higher Q was because the original coil was warming up. Would not increasing the Q lead to higher circulating currents at resonance, thus greater heating? Unless of course the effective x-sectional area of the conductor was increased in square-law relationship to the increase in current! I go by the rule "use the biggest wire possible whatever"! Regards Paul G4MD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16088 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2000 00:53:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Apr 2000 00:53:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fXnL-0002ln-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 01:47:43 +0100 Received: from [195.147.248.109] (helo=sand.global.net.uk) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fXnJ-0002lf-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 01:47:41 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from p81s08a07.client.global.net.uk ([195.147.232.130] helo=howett) by sand.global.net.uk with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12fXn6-0006UG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 01:47:28 +0100 Comments: Authenticated sender is X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: howett@mail.globalnet.co.uk To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 01:47:52 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Key clicks and linears X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Windows (v2.54) Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, Thought I'd try a bit of calm consideration in the key click debate,and thus offer the following discourse: Key clicks are broad-band radiation produced as a result of the rate of rise and decay of the amplitude of the keyed carrier. The faster the rise and fall, the closer to a square wave is the envelope and the richer in harmonics is the resulting signal. Note that these are not harmonics of the signal frequency, but of a very low frequency related to the characteristics of the carrier's rise and fall. These mix with the carrier frequency to produce a broad signal centred on the carrier frequency. No amount of filtering of the clicky signal can remove the clicks, although they are of course attenuated at frequencies removed from the carrier frequency by any selectivity between their source and the antenna. The only way to prevent key clicks is to ensure that the rise and fall times of the keyed carrier are long enough to avoid significant harmonic generation.( Although too long rise and falls results in a "mushy" sounding signal that can be difficult to copy). Once a clean keyed signal has been produced, it has to be preserved through the remainder of the transmitter amplifier chain. A truly linear amplifier will reproduce the input signal perfectly, and the output will be click free. But note that maintaining linearity when dealing with a switched carrier places severe demands on the amplifier - a favourite problem is with sagging supply voltages.A 'scope may show things a meter can't! Any form of "switching" mode amplifier (ie class C and above)is inherently non - linear and relies on the flywheel effect of its tuned circuits to produce a sine wave, and to filter harmonics from its output. This results in the steepening of the rise time of the signal, and can cause the appearance of clicks on a signal that was clean when generated. The effect can be counteracted by increasing the rise time of the keyed signal to allow for subsequent "sharpening" of the waveform during amplification. In conclusion, any form of amplifier or exciter can be a satisfactory solution provided it is designed and operated to be so - and this includes digital techniques,provided that the appropriate filtering and signal conditioning is used. Thats all from my soap-box for now, thanks to all those carrying out any work on the VLF bands, whether wheel reinventing or not - what matters to me is that there will be people to talk to when I eventually get my transmitter (clicky or otherwise) on the air! 73 de Paul G4MD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24463 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2000 08:54:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Apr 2000 08:54:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ffEY-0003wI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 09:44:18 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ffEX-0003wD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 09:44:17 +0100 Received: from [195.44.216.212] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ffED-00026E-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 08:44:00 +0000 Message-ID: <38F57A62.4440670F@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 07:42:26 +0000 From: "g3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: G3WSC/P acty References: <38F422C1.A543FFD1@netscapeonline.co.uk> <009a01bfa4b3$a647fc60$0600a8c0@main> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave wrote: > Eh what?? > > > Square wave generators/dividers and class D/E amplifiers are fine for > > small antennas and low erp but NOT SUITABLE for larger antennas and high > > power. An abundance of LPF and BP filters might help to clean up the > > signal. > > I think you're getting confused with high levels of harmonic output, which > class D amplifiers can suffer from if not properly filtered, and sideband > energy from fast rise and fall times of the transmitted envelope. > LPF will NOT help! I DID NOT SAY A LPF would cure key clicks. I said a LPF would stop HARMONICS, especially odd harmonics 3/5 etc. from the type of divider/mosfet amplifiers used on 136 khz. You need a good multi pole LPF with these type of amplifiers especially with large antennas. KEY CLICKS were also mentioned in the message about the G3WSC/P transmitter, and as you say this is due to fast rise times/timing and requires a different type of filter/circuit. I was merely pointing out that besides the key clicks, there was a possibility of radiating odd harmonics if not properly filtered because of the intensity of the signal with a large antenna. If more power is to be used from such an installation, a bad situation will get worse. G3KEV > > This can happen with any kind of amplifier, I key my class D PA with a > tailored rise and fall, series device. > > Oh, and by the way, they were using a linear amplifier! > (It was a little bit clicky though...) > > Dave 'YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23204 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2000 08:54:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Apr 2000 08:54:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ffDs-0003vb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 09:43:36 +0100 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ffDq-0003vV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 09:43:35 +0100 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id JAA31879; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 09:46:07 +0100 (BST) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 7757 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2000 09:38:26 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 13 Apr 2000 09:38:26 -0000 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id IAA16318; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 08:31:13 GMT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from unknown(146.80.11.40) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma016278; Thu, 13 Apr 00 08:30:41 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 09:44:27 +0100 Received: by FRN-GOLD-1 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id <2J097T8H>; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 09:39:32 +0100 Message-ID: <3617AC3245C2D1118A840000F805359C01752858@PDW-MERCURY-1> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: "'LF Group'" Subject: LF: Coil winding conumdrum Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 09:39:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Well, Gamal and Paul between them hit on the solution. It definitely appears to be proximity effect causing extra losses for the Litz wound coil. I re-measured both at 80kHz and the Litz one came out significantly better at 42 as opposed to 30 for the single layer one. The losses caused by proximity effect obviously dominating the tiny improvement from not very efficient Litz winding with each strand still 4 - 5 skin depths in diameter. Dielectric loses were insignificant, the former material barely got warm in a Microwave oven. G4MD : >Would not increasing the Q >lead to higher circulating currents at resonance, thus greater >heating? Unless of course the effective x-sectional area of the >conductor was increased in square-law relationship to the increase in >current! Q is only the relationship between loss resistance and reactance. A higher Q means lower series R and must mean lower loss. It all falls out in the maths :-( ZL2CA: >You did not report in your findings if the Litz wire coil ran cooler >than the single wire coil, but I am presuming it did. I did not even bother loading up, it was obvious from the Q measurement it would dissipate more so not worth trying. -------- I wound a new coil as Gamal suggested. Using 68mm diameter drain pipe (I bought a 2m length for the grand sum of £2-60 - anyone want some coil formers :-) 42 turns of 0.8mm tinned wire spaced at 3mm over a length of 130mm. Q now twice that for the original single layer coil at 250. I couldn't use the spacing to conductor diameter ratio of 1.4 to 2.2 that Peter suggested as it was difficult winding the bare wire onto the smooth former with a spacing much less. It was very instructive comparing the measured loss resistance from Q value with that calculated from conductor length, diameter and skin depth. For both single layer coils the actual loss resistance was only about twice that calculated. Considering what other loss mechanisms are present, this result is very satisfyingly close. Now I suppose I'd better actually have a QSO on topband although I've still got to measure the antenna properties on that band and compare them with the values measured when it was first built for 73/137. Anything to avoid going on air ! All the fun is in making things work rather than using them when they do :-) Andy G4JNT -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24442 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2000 09:11:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Apr 2000 09:11:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ffQc-0003yk-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 09:56:46 +0100 Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ffQb-0003ye-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 09:56:45 +0100 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 12ffQG-0007Z0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 09:56:25 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 09:41:49 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 09:41:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Re. Decca Masts In-reply-to: <6c.2e85b34.2625fb5d@aol.com> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3AQC wrote: > << The performance of the Decca Ant. is quite interesting, the "gain"or at > least the advantage over the normal amateur installation appears to be at > least 20db.... This is tremendous and I dont see how it can be attributed > to the height alone, conventional wisdom says that a short vertical has > the same radiation pattern as a full sise one,and even 300 feet is far > short of full sise. So where do we look for the explanation? >> > Don't forget that the transmission was a full 1W ERP (from only 10W in!). Very few amateur stations are able to run that amount of power even with hundreds of watts input. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6491 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2000 09:21:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Apr 2000 09:21:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ffer-00044C-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:11:29 +0100 Received: from cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.177]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ffen-000447-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:11:25 +0100 Received: from modem-172.half-black-angel.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.24.172] helo=lvm) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12ffea-0005xg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:11:13 +0100 Message-ID: <000201bfa528$519ecde0$ac18893e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: Re. Key Clicks and and Linears Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:11:07 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Thanks Peter for an excellent and well reasoned explanation of the key click problem.Far better than the near hysteria that there has been on this reflector.
A small contribution to the discussion,if I may. Is there not a special shaping waveform that can be generated,some form of cosine response that enables optimum rise time at minimum speed.I am sure that we used to use this in other areas. Best wishes, 73s Laurie.  
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16946 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2000 09:43:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Apr 2000 09:43:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fg2k-0004At-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:36:10 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fg2i-0004Ao-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:36:09 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA35366 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 11:35:55 +0200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000413102013.24371cf0@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:20:13 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: G3WSC/P acty In-reply-to: <38F422C1.A543FFD1@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: At 07:16 12/04/00 +0000, you wrote: >All at G3WSC/P. >Nice signal yesterday early evening. Very strong but you had key clicks >on the LF side of the signal on 136 khz covering a total of 250 hz. I >expect the switched mode class D amplifier is the problem with such a >high tower plus at least 1w erp. G3WSC was 9+10dB at my location, I had no problems copying a DL, who was only 529, calling at about 400Hz down while G3WSC was transmitting. The 'magic' of this might be the use of a attenuator between antenna and RX, adjusting attenuation until the weak station is just readable. This avoids a lot of IM in your RX. At about 350km from G3WSC I could not notice any clicks, so their signal seemed OK to me. >He does not have any key clicks, because his signal is generated as >sine wave, then a valve amplifier and pi filtered output. Key clicks are not caused by non-linearities of an amplifier but by the way the signal 'rises' and 'falls' when keyed. So it does not matter if your PA is class A,B,C,D,E or whatever. Also low-pass filtering will not affect these 'clicks', although it is essential to reduce the harmonic contents of the signal (but that is another story). Further the class of an amplifier is independent of the 'active element' used, one can make a perfect class A amp with bipolar transistors or FETs and a class C or D with valves. To the G3WSC/p gang : great job and very interesting. With this big antenna (and known efficiency) it is possible to generate a rather exact ERP, interesting to know what signal 1 Watt ERP produces. BTW : the WSC signal was about 5dB down on the 7S6 signal some time ago, so considering the difference in distance the Swedish guys must have been running an ERP in the 100W range. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13755 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2000 10:01:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Apr 2000 10:01:49 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fgID-0004Ed-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:52:09 +0100 Received: from hs-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.177.150] helo=sphmgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fgIA-0004EW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:52:06 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by sphmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id FAA00096; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 05:50:49 -0400 (EDT) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 05:49:58 -0400 From: "Holger 'Geri', DK8KW" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Transatlantic, Signal Strength, DCF39, etc. To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, "lf" Message-ID: <200004130550_MC2-A10A-3483@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF-band enthusiasts, as Gamal wrote in an earlier message, he and myself took a nice ride to the Burg transmitter facility, took some pictures and a field strength profile from the location back to my home QTH, approximately 120 km away. I hope to be able to post the profile, some further information as well as photographs of the antenna structure. As DCF39 is one of the few LF signals that has been heard on the other side of the atlantic, it might be interesting for further field strength calculations to know the ERP. With our measurements with an untuned 1m-diameter loop and a calibrated level meter (MV61, as my Siemens D2108 gave up its work) we came to the result, that the 50 kW DCF39 signal on 138.830 kHz mark frequency is being transmitted from a 325m high antenna. The actual ERP we came up with (matching the appropriate CCIR-curves with a very good correlation) is 40 kW ERP. So for all you guys in Canada or the U.S. that are able to hear DCF39, you might consider this ERP in relation to an amateur signal of only 1 W ERP (but maybe 1000 km closer to you location if it is a UK or Irish station). But that brings me to another measurement that I have made and something that was mentioned in a previous message written by Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) >Don't forget that the transmission was a full 1W ERP (from only >10W in!). Very few amateur stations are able to run that amount of >power even with hundreds of watts input. I believe that most of us over-estimate their ERP by far (and I include also those guys with 'real' antennas). I myself calculated from the antenna current and the height of my umbrella antenna (18m) an estimated ERP of 200 mW. With the above mentioned equipment I actually measured the ERP to be only 30 mW (!). Field strength measurements performed by Dick, PA0SE, Markus, DF6NM and myself also indicate, that probably only two or three stations within Europe actually reach the 1 Watt ERP line (considering all the difficulties of actually measuring ERP from a distance beyond near-field). G3WSC/p obviously is one of those stations and as I indicated earlier, their signal was exactly on my theoretical 1 Watt ERP line. I am still surprised that with my actual ERP being that low, my signal still can be considered an average signal and allowed me to cover distances of up to 1300m (one of the disadvantages of living in Central Europe is that there simply is no active LF station further away -- yet ...). Even more I am surprised that with an antenna by far less effective I was able to run my first Slow-CW QSOs over a distance of 402 km with ON7YD last year with an ERP of (theoretcically, based on my actual measurments and calculations) less than 0.1 mW (!!) ERP. This shows me, that, providing we select the appropriate technique, the detection of estonishing weak signals out of the noise is possible. The only other places I personally know working with similar techniques are military (submarine communcation), radio astronomers, NASA, and geophysical people (seismics and oilfield applications to transmit data wireless from the borehole bottom to surface) as well as our EME collegues! Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) P.S.: what I have heard (and read on the internet somewhere), NASA people used spectrogram-like software to look for signals of the missing MARS vehicle last year ... so much to the application of "amateur" techniques by the professionals and vice versa. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14293 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2000 10:04:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Apr 2000 10:04:49 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fgMO-0004Ff-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:56:28 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.91]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fgMM-0004FW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:56:27 +0100 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12fgM8-000NCV-0X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:56:13 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:22:14 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: Re: LF: Nonsense from G3KEV In-reply-to: <38F4CF75.B42A1976@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In message <38F4CF75.B42A1976@netscapeonline.co.uk>, g3kev writes > > >If you read the literature published by one of the researchers/experimenters >of class D/E amplifiers, he states that if you push the amplifiers, which >most amateurs do, and do not pay attention to the LPF, you are then radiating >a distorted square wave, with all its odd order harmonics, he goes on to say >that for larger than normal antenna systems one would need possible more than >the normal 5 pole filter between the mosfets and the antenna. >I own a quality spectrum analyser and can verify what he says to be correct. >Very few signals generated by such amplifiers and used by radio amateurs have >a pure sine wave output after one 5 pole LPF, except at very low power >levels, also have a look at the ripple content super imposed on the signal >because the power supplies normally used by radio amateurs are not regulated >or well smoothed. . >With your modest amplifier and long wire a few feet above ground you have >nothing to worry about. >G3KEV > >Quite true, but any RF filtering at the output of your transmitter will have no effect on key clicks unless you manage to devise an RF filter with only fraction of a Hz bandwidth. Filtering within the keying circuit of the transmitter is the only way you can lengthen the rise and fall time of the transmitted signal and as you rightly say, once the keying characteristic has been defined, a linear amplifier should follow in order to preserve the rise and fall. The exception to this is in the G3YXM design, which I use and I believe you use. Dave controls the mark/space ratio of the drive waveform during keying, so even though followed by a non-linear 'switched mode' PA, the keyed output waveform rises and falls smoothly. 73, Tom G3OLB. > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14516 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2000 10:05:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Apr 2000 10:05:53 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fgMM-0004FX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:56:26 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.88]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fgML-0004FR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:56:25 +0100 Received: from telemetry.demon.co.uk ([194.222.19.114]) by anchor-post-30.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12fgM7-0004sU-0U for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:56:12 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 10:46:43 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Tom Boucher" Subject: Re: LF: Coil winding conundrum In-reply-to: <38F4E429.1A94@xtra.co.nz> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Surely if the Litz coil Q was lower, it will run warmer? 73, Tom G3OLB In message <38F4E429.1A94@xtra.co.nz>, vernall writes >You did not report in your findings if the Litz wire coil ran cooler >than the single wire coil, but I am presuming it did. > >73, Bob ZL2CA > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26520 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2000 15:11:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Apr 2000 15:11:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fl9g-0005AD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 16:03:40 +0100 Received: from mta01.talk21.com ([62.172.192.171] helo=t21mta01-app.talk21.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fl9c-0005A7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 16:03:37 +0100 Received: from dave ([62.7.176.24]) by t21mta01-app.talk21.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.27 201-229-119-110) with SMTP id <20000413150228.HHMW25243.t21mta01-app.talk21.com@dave> for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 16:02:28 +0100 Message-ID: <001d01bfa559$57ebb240$18b0073e@dave> From: "Dave Sergeant" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <2000041223543468199@zetnet.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: TransAtlantic II Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:44:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From Dave G3YMC Peter Dodd wrote: >I don't recall that DJ8WL had any hang-ups about using QRSS - in fact >all my QSOs with him used this mode Yes I am aware that Peter was a keen supporter of slow CW. However after many pleasant QSOs with him years ago on Top Band I can also say he was a most enthusiastic and very proficient normal CW operator. Some of my comments yesterday have been taken slightly out of context. By saying that due reward should be given for a normal CW transatlantic QSO, this is not to imply that QRSS or other computer modes are not equally valid, and may indeed be necessary. It was just to say wouldn't it be nice if we could indeed do it using traditional amateur techniques. And normal CW should not be written off too soon as being impossible, as regardless of theoretical calculations the human ear is incredibly good at copying CW way below noise, so in the right conditions it might just be possible. When November comes it will be an opportunity to try all the techniques currently available. It may well be that only the coherent modes get through, but it would also be great if we find we can have normal CW QSOs as well. Also the opportunity to use the Decca masts in the current experiment is a golden opportunity which shouldn't be missed. It may well be argued that QSOs made with commercial stations shouldn't count for rewards, but that is not the point. We all keep looking at these masts and say 'if only' - now we can see if they do really give the enormous advantage we calculate, and give us useful guidance on how to make our own modest set ups work better. It is after all a hobby. Re: the key click comments. Key clicks within a 250Hz band are probably not the sort of clicks we often hear on the other bands which spread much further, and are very much a function of the drive rise and fall times of the keying envelope (NOT the ac drive itself). To achieve inaudible clicks this close to the carrier is indeed no mean feat, and I am sure a lot of care was taken by the team involved. It is hardly a licensing issue, except that the transmission may possibly be occupying a slightly wider bandwidth than strictly necessary for the speed of CW in use - the amplitude of the 2nd and 3rd harmonics and any out of band spurii would be, I wonder if these were measured by the complainant? As it is, the clicks would only affect someone else trying to work a weak station very close to the Puckeridge station. I am therefore a little puzzled why the gentleman involved chose to call CQ so close, possibly causing QRM himself to the operation, when at that particular time there was plenty of empty band further LF. I am away this weekend so will not be able to monitor the Puckeridge operation this time. Hopefully there will be another chance before it is dismantled. Cheers Dave dsergeant@iee.org http://ourworld.compuserve.com/homepages/sergeantd From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22465 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2000 16:16:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Apr 2000 16:16:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fmAg-0005Mm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 17:08:46 +0100 Received: from tomts1.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.139] helo=tomts1-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fmAf-0005Mh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 17:08:45 +0100 Received: from server1 ([206.172.245.19]) by tomts1-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with SMTP id <20000413160755.HRJC28912.tomts1-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 12:07:55 -0400 Message-ID: <006301bfa562$24643bf0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: What is normal amateur radio? Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 12:05:49 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Gentlemen: This discussion of what is normal amateur radio is a never ending discourse that occurs every time we have change, especially if the change looks like it might be a quantum change. When I was a child and had just gotten my license the first time, the Net Control station for the 80 Meter net at my home phoned my father at his office and asked him to stop me from calling into the Manitoba Phone Net on 3760 with my SSB rig, I was fouling up the Net..... When we got a bunch of old Model 12 and 14 teletype machines and got them running on 80 we were told that we would wreck the National Traffic System. In 1969 I built my first FM repeater up in Sault Ste Marie, Ontario and there was a loud uproar from the existing AM Crowd, a group of three, about the awful modulation and the wide signal of the station on their regenerative receivers. In 1978 a small team in Ottawa, one of three teams in Canada, built a Packet Radio system and we incidentally coined the term "Digipeater". There was a heated and very vociferous discussion that microcomputers were most certainly not part of Amateur Radio. I frequently meet other CW operators who vigorously promote that the use of a Keyboard on CW is not real CW operating. These same people used to be very upset with those who first used some DTL logic to build a Keyer and use a Paddle, they were not real CW operators either. My amateur radio may not fit with the definitions of amateur radio that are acceptable to some other radio amateurs. Guess, what? That is OK! I just ask that you exercise your rights as you see them in amateur radio and I will try hard not to let my rights be a point of distress to you. We have lots of room, even in 2.1 Khz at LF, to do a lot of things and have a lot of fun and we definitely can do some things that the existing LF community, Government or Otherwise, have never done before. I have always been able to tell when I am out front of the pack, I am constantly reaching around and ripping the spears and arrows out of my back, but I also know that goes with the fun of doing something new. 73 Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17531 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2000 16:55:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Apr 2000 16:55:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fmnm-0005V9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 17:49:10 +0100 Received: from mb09.swip.net ([193.12.122.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fmnl-0005V4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 17:49:09 +0100 Received: from win95 (d212-151-53-227.swipnet.se [212.151.53.227]) by mb09.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id SAA24137 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 18:48:21 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <000501bfa568$79c81200$e33597d4@win95.swipnet.se> From: "C Andersson" To: "RSGB LF group" Subject: LF: Puckeridge tests Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 18:50:32 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello LF-group, Interesting with this experiment. I just wonder how the efficiency of the used antenna is calculated (or perhaps measured). My calculations for a 100 m vertical _without_ toploading gives a radiated pwr of 1,6W with 1,4 A antenna current. (10W in 5 ohms). ERP = 2,9W. I believe the top wires also improves things a bit. Hw? /Christer sm6pxj From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23383 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2000 17:17:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Apr 2000 17:17:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fn6x-0005ZU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 18:08:59 +0100 Received: from ins21.netins.net ([167.142.225.21] helo=smtp-out.netins.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fn6v-0005ZP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 18:08:58 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from netins.net (desm-25-098.dialup.netins.net [167.142.22.99]) by smtp-out.netins.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id MAA09040; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 12:08:38 -0500 (CDT) Message-ID: <38F5FF15.F952C881@netins.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 12:08:37 -0500 From: "Doc Gruis" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, donnatom@netins.net, k0htf@aol.com Subject: Re: LF: What is normal amateur radio? References: <006301bfa562$24643bf0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Excellent original post on this current thread. I have shared some of the same things here in Iowa in the U.S., , among other things, with the first 6 mater repeater in this area. For several years the late Ernie Wilson, W0PKJ, and I sponsored an amateur radio club and I also taught an introductory electronics course, and for a couple of years a contact elective radio license class, for credit toward high school graduation. Several of those young men and women got amateur licenses and at least tried the hobby first hand. Most have maintained their licenses, but not all. Life. Some also got one level or another of the former Radio Telephone Licenses, which same have since been "deregulated" or subjected to "reform." Now, most of these folks were not from families that could afford "state of the art" ham radio gear. As licenses became available, and with a very limited budget at school, and using personal resources, I worked with the kids and changes CB transceivers to crystal controlled 1o meter rigs - NOT on the commonly used channel, 29.6. AND, we also modified and retuned four or five old table radios to receive 160 meters, even added a BFO on a couple of them. Then we built some small, at the time, 1960's and 1970's, built 3 or 4 very small A.M. transmitters. The usual PA was a 6V6/GT or miniature version, 6AQ5, running a pretty low voltage, less than 5 watts and usually about 2 watts. A few times I even sent CW practice on 160. Oh my! The hue and cry! Cluttering the airwaves with AM and young people. I have often wondered about the impact on the young people. Change and learning are always related - also to pain, of some sort or another. Life! 73, Doc., K0HTF (Grid square EN31dx) and long wave (U.S. part 15) "D" From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8809 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2000 18:33:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Apr 2000 18:33:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12foGp-0005lY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 19:23:15 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12foGm-0005lT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 19:23:12 +0100 Received: from as32-s15-148-3.cwci.net ([195.44.148.3] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12foGY-0005e6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 18:22:58 +0000 Message-ID: <38F5FD58.F31665B@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 17:01:12 +0000 From: "g3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: TransAtlantic II, test notice - announcement References: <002a01bfa0a2$9b9320c0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> <002f01bfa46a$265d4a80$ba0d01d5@dave> <38F4D6D1.2CC9E7F5@netscapeonline.co.uk> <03b601bfa4ca$aa9f9f40$de46a8c0@unica.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Peter Bowyer wrote: > I don't normally post here, but.... > > G3KEV wrote :- > > > Secondary any other mode that one cares to use with their own antenna and > > commercial antenna farms are totally non amateur radio. > > Why so intolerant? The Decca experimentors are radio amateurs, taking > advantage of the unique availability of some ex-commercial equipment to push > further the boundaries in this area. Come on, there's room for all here? > Nobody says you have to join in if you don't want to. > > If no radio amateur had ever used any ex-commercial equipment the hobby > would be somewhat poorer, I think. > > > How can anyone claim any > > credit/achievement using a commercial antenna system and data systems > that need > > chip rate detectors controlled by computers > > Personally I take my hat off to the skill and knowledge of the likes of > G4JNT - again, the envelope is being pushed in another fascinating > direction. And again, if *you* don't want to do it, be our guest and don't. > There's room for all. I am glad Peter that you have joined the debate and I know that you have to be impartial at all times. I owned and was the Sysop of GB7KEV a NTS bbs on the East Coast for 8 years. The volume of traffic at its peak was in excess of 1200 messages each week, a little more than appears on this medium, so I do know the position. I give all credit to those that are trying to cross frontiers but why single out one particular person. For instance you forgot to mention MM0ALM who has the most potent signal eminating from the UK. He has constructed everything in his shack except perhaps his RX and engineered his antenna farm which includes a number of tower in excess of 130 feet. That is real amateur involvement and dedication, and he is not associated in any way with the electronics industry, and does not have University, Government agencies, or Commercial R and D support. By their own admission some of the radio amateur contributers to the reflector and participants on LF are using Professional facilities and sophisticated equipment borrowed from their employers to achieve the object. I cannot comment about the person above that you mentioned because I have not heard any signals from him so far on LF, perhaps he is working underground. I can only state my own position by saying that as far as I know, I am the only one to work and have confirmed 19 countries on 136 khz two way plus 2 xband to Spain and Channel Is. with my signal on 136 khz. I have swl reports from 4 other countries excluding the above. We need proof of achievements and not speculation. G3KEV > > > Peter G4MJS > Reflector Keeper - blacksheep.org From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28374 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2000 19:01:53 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Apr 2000 19:01:53 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12folf-0005qI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 19:55:07 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hs-img-5.compuserve.com ([149.174.177.154] helo=sphmgaae.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fold-0005qC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 19:55:05 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by sphmgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id OAA20965 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 14:54:21 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 14:53:31 -0400 From: "DEREK ATTER" Subject: LF: Puckeridge tests To: "Christer SM6PJX" Message-ID: <200004131453_MC2-A119-211C@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Christer, Thanks for your signal report via E-mail and the later comments re antenna efficiency/ ERP etc. during the Decca antenna tests. Sorry we didn't make a QSO the other night but now that we hopefully have sorted out the matching constants on both 73 and 136Khz we should be able to concentrate on making as many QSO as possible whilst we have this limited access window which came at short notice. We plan to return tomorrow to site and also Saturday. We will post more info shortly on times etc. We have also looked at the close range key click question and will take some appropriate components to increase the slugging of the rise and fall times of the keying envelope and fit them to our TX which we had left on site. As far as the ERP is concerned , we used the reported Decca figures for efficiency of the mast and tuning system of 15% close to 136 Khz (which we believe are derived from measurement) and then applied some correction to allow for the losses of our much smaller loading coil and base matching auto transformer arriving at an overall figure of 10%effy. hence our use of an RF power of 10W to the antenna. There is a relatively small platform at the top of the mast with, I think , 8 wires sloping down almost to the ground and terminating on large insulators a few feet outside the base area of the mast but not connected to the bottom of the tower - almost like a folded umbrella. There is of course an extesive buried earth mat. Look forward to working you over the weekend again. 73, de Derek, G3GRO/G3WSC/G3KAU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 676 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2000 19:25:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Apr 2000 19:25:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fp7m-0005vJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 20:17:58 +0100 Received: from ds-img-3.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.136] helo=spdmgaac.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fp7l-0005vE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 20:17:57 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id PAA23042; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:16:32 -0400 (EDT) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 15:14:24 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Transatlantic, Signal Strength, DCF39, etc. To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, "amrad" Message-ID: <200004131514_MC2-A11D-595A@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear friends, following my previous mail, I just updated my longwave homepage with more information on DCF39, including pictures, the field strength profile and the ERP measurement (40 kW ERP) Gamal and I took last week, as well as information on how I measured the ERP of my own station in comparison (only 30 mW !). Just go to http://www.qru.de and follow the "What's New?"-link. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20390 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2000 19:45:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Apr 2000 19:45:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fpRa-0005yQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 20:38:26 +0100 Received: from phobos.unica.co.uk ([208.239.240.147] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fpRZ-0005yK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 20:38:25 +0100 Received: from [194.131.244.31] (helo=zork) by phobos.unica.co.uk with asmtp (Exim 3.13 #2) id 12fuyp-0002EN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 21:33:08 -0400 Message-ID: <01f001bfa57f$b5007940$de46a8c0@unica.co.uk> From: "Peter Bowyer" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <002a01bfa0a2$9b9320c0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> <002f01bfa46a$265d4a80$ba0d01d5@dave> <38F4D6D1.2CC9E7F5@netscapeonline.co.uk> <03b601bfa4ca$aa9f9f40$de46a8c0@unica.co.uk> <38F5FD58.F31665B@netscapeonline.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Experimentation etc Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 20:37:26 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Changed the subject line - nothing at all to do with Transatlantic II ... G3KEV wrote : > > I am glad Peter that you have joined the debate and I know that you have to be > impartial at all times. Well.. not really, I'm allowed to have opinions. They don't count any more or any less that anyone else's, though, and I wouldn't have it any other way. I don't exercise any control over the content of any of the reflectors we run, except occasionally for technical reasons. > I owned and was the Sysop of GB7KEV a NTS bbs on the East Coast for 8 years. > The volume of traffic at its peak was in excess of 1200 messages each week, a > little more than appears on this medium, so I do know the position. Not sure why that's relevant, but OK. > I give all credit to those that are trying to cross frontiers but why single out > one particular person. I mentioned G4JNT because he is the most prolific poster here on the advanced DSP and coherent integration techniques, and to my knowledge (which may be less than complete) the most advanced experimentor, too. I could probably have gone on to list everyone else who posts here, and all the people who don't, but I'm not sure it would have helped my point. > For instance you forgot to mention MM0ALM who has the most potent signal > eminating from the UK. He has constructed everything in his shack except perhaps > his RX and engineered his antenna farm which includes a number of tower in > excess of 130 feet. That is real amateur involvement and dedication, and he is > not associated in any way with the electronics industry, and does not have > University, Government agencies, or Commercial R and D support. Good for him - that's 100% more than I could ever achieve. More power to his elbow. But what I do is still amateur radio, it's just a different branch of the hobby. (I do contest operating mostly, BTW). > By their own admission some of the radio amateur contributers to the reflector > and participants on LF are using Professional facilities and sophisticated > equipment borrowed from their employers to achieve the object. And if that 'borrowing' is helping those people and other amateurs with their understanding of the bands and modes concerned, why should that pose a problem? This is new stuff, involving new techniques. > I cannot comment about the person above that you mentioned because I have not > heard any signals from him so far on LF, perhaps he is working underground. Nor have I. Not surprising, since I haven't heard any other signals on LF either. But I have read Andy's postings here (and elsewhere on similar topics but implemented on vastly different bands and modes) with great interest and am very keen to read more about their success and development. And those of all the other experimentors here, too. > I can only state my own position by saying that as far as I know, I am the only > one to work and have confirmed 19 countries on 136 khz two way plus 2 xband to > Spain and Channel Is. with my signal on 136 khz. I have swl reports from 4 other > countries excluding the above. Good - congratulations, that's an excellent achievement. You obviously take great pride in what you do, and earn the respect of your peers as a result. Shouldn't others have the same chance to achieve against their own agenda in the same way you have against yours? That way the envelope will be pushed in many directions, making the whole arena richer for all. > We need proof of achievements and not speculation. We 'need' experimentation, which comes in all shapes and sizes. That's what keeps our hobby interesting. I don't do much of it myself, but get great pleasure from being a privileged observer. Peter G4MJS From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9892 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2000 21:13:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Apr 2000 21:13:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fqnQ-0006Dr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 22:05:04 +0100 Received: from mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.1]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fqnM-0006Di-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 22:05:01 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [202.27.181.174] by mta1-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <20000413210412.LDMV18064519.mta1-rme@[202.27.181.174]> for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 09:04:12 +1200 Message-ID: <38F62C8D.6900@xtra.co.nz> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 08:22:37 +1200 From: "vernall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: TransAtlantic II References: <2000041223543468199@zetnet.co.uk> <001d01bfa559$57ebb240$18b0073e@dave> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave Sergeant wrote: snip snip > When November comes it will be an opportunity to try all the techniques > currently available. It may well be that only the coherent modes get > through, but it would also be great if we find we can have normal CW QSOs as > well. What is "normal" for you can be quite different for somebody else. Thankfully we can all make choices, and do. Bob ZL2CA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1502 invoked from network); 13 Apr 2000 23:04:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 13 Apr 2000 23:04:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fsVx-0006Wq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 23:55:09 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ds-img-5.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.138] helo=spdmgaae.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fsVw-0006Wi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 23:55:08 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id SAA29508 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 18:54:25 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 18:53:29 -0400 From: "DEREK ATTER" Subject: LF: Puckeridge tests 14/15 th April - Proposed Schedules To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200004131853_MC2-A128-9304@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LFer's The Notice of Licence Variation from the Radio Communiction Agency has just approved to operate up to100W ERP from the 325 ft Decca mast on both the 73Khz band (callsign G3GRO) and the 136Khz band (callsign G3WSC) over the weekend 14/15/16 April !! Herewith the proposed initial operating periods for the forthcoming weekend from the old Decca site :- From 16-00 UTC - 1700UTC 73Khz Band 1W ERP 17-00 UTC - 20-00 UTC 136Khz Band 1W ERP 20-00 UTC - 2100 UTC 73Khz Band 1W ERP 21-00 UTY - 2300UTC 136Khz Band 1W ERP After CQs we will indicate where we will be QRX , We also hope to be able to QSX HF bands Note # We may run some tests for limited periods at higher ERP reducing in steps from a maximum 100W ERP ( 1Kw RF to antenna) announcing the ERP at each level From 2300 -05-30 UTC 137.710 Khz Beacon mode -- sending alternate callsign G3WSC for 10 secs (about 5wpm) and then 10sec pause, then callsign again etc. ERP up to a maximum of 100W Later schedules for Saturday onwards will be posted on the reflector The operators involved at various times over the weekend will be - G3KAU, G3GRO, G0MRF,G3XDV, M0BMU , G3XTZ, G3YXM, G3YSX On site mobile phone no. 07790 242930 Contact station back home - Peter G3LDO Tel No: 01903 770 804 or E-mail NB. The key clicks reported by some stations at close range after the first setting -up tests have hopefully been addressed. 73, de G3GRO, G3KAU, G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2702 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2000 00:53:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Apr 2000 00:53:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fuGU-0006xv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 01:47:18 +0100 Received: from smtp11.bellglobal.com ([204.101.251.53]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fuGS-0006xq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 01:47:17 +0100 Received: from server1 (Kingston-ppp112268.sympatico.ca [216.209.138.151]) by smtp11.bellglobal.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA16246 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 20:52:42 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001301bfa5aa$a8367db0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Puckeridge tests 14/15 th April - Proposed Schedules Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 20:43:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings Gentlemen: I have just had a conversation with Jack, VE1ZZ and he will do everything he can to hear you this weekend. Jack is very tenacious so I suspect he will put his best foot forward. He was very pleased to get the call about the Puckeridge tests. If there is anything for him, send it on to me and I will QSP to Jack via phone. Hoping for a serious X Flare, I will also be listening. DCF39 was quite strong an hour ago but has dropped significantly in the last hour. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3251 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2000 01:01:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Apr 2000 01:01:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fuMy-0006yt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 01:54:00 +0100 Received: from smtp11.bellglobal.com ([204.101.251.53]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fuMx-0006yo-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 01:53:59 +0100 Received: from server1 (Kingston-ppp112268.sympatico.ca [216.209.138.151]) by smtp11.bellglobal.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id UAA19202 for ; Thu, 13 Apr 2000 20:59:25 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001a01bfa5ab$98ca03f0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: DCF39 info please Date: Thu, 13 Apr 2000 20:51:34 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Gentlemen: What I thought was DCF39 fading down into the noise now appears that they were off the air. The period of watching here was from close to 0040 utc tonight until 0053 when they have come back on, and they are very loud here at this time. Did anyone in Europe notice that they were off the air earlier this hour? Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21048 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2000 07:04:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Apr 2000 07:04:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fzza-0007tG-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 07:54:14 +0100 Received: from tele-post-20.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.20]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12fzzX-0007tA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 07:54:11 +0100 Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by tele-post-20.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #2) id 12fzzJ-0004rB-0K for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 06:53:57 +0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <38F6BEE3.CC1A6C65@alg.demon.co.uk> Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 07:46:59 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: The age of our fellow experimenters Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Derek and Lech wrote: > Thanks to those people who have sent signal reports via E-mail etc. > and also gave these two old codgers ( sum of our ages 148 !!) verbal > support. Once again, it's our older, more experienced, LF experimenters showing us the way. There's nothing 'codger-ish' about these two! By the way, one of the oldest active LF experimenters in the UK is Ron, G6RO who was 87 on 20th February. Apparently, Ron is just 2 days older than Bill, G6NB - another keen LF experimenter, and familiar call on 136kHz. Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 858 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2000 09:39:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Apr 2000 09:39:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12g2R9-0008Kj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 10:30:51 +0100 Received: from helios.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12g2R5-0008Ke-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 10:30:47 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by helios.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 12g2Ny-0007kU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 10:27:34 +0100 Message-ID: <14369.200004140936@gemini> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 10:36:42 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: DCF39 info please In-reply-to: <001a01bfa5ab$98ca03f0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear Larry & LF Group, I also noticed DCF39 was off air at about 0100utc last night. It was back on again later. I also heard what I think was CFH, bulding up to about 15-20dB above the noise floor by the time I went to bed at about 0130 - so it might be worth the people across the pond having a listen over the weekend. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6079 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2000 10:01:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Apr 2000 10:01:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12g2oM-0008O1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 10:54:50 +0100 Received: from mail1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.18]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12g2oL-0008Nw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 10:54:49 +0100 Received: from modem-93.amarie.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.104.93] helo=lvm) by mail1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12g2o7-0003oA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 10:54:36 +0100 Message-ID: <000201bfa5f7$8b663660$5d68883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: Re. LF Age etc. Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 10:54:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
So this makes me quite a baby then at 74 in May! Best of luck for the weekend to all old Codgers,  and young ones too.73 Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7481 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2000 10:22:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Apr 2000 10:22:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12g38b-0008Sx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 11:15:45 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12g38a-0008Ss-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 11:15:44 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id MAA141544 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 12:15:31 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000414121151.196711b6@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 12:11:51 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: DCF39 info please In-reply-to: <14369.200004140936@gemini> References: <001a01bfa5ab$98ca03f0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: It certainly is. 100W versus 40kW is 'only' 26dB (even if the 'decca guys' only get 10W ERP it is an acceptable 36dB). But the fact that they are far more west compared to DCF39 may nibble of some dB's. In case Larry (or some others at the other side of the pond) watch the signal with Spectogram it might be a good idea to add 5 to 10 second 'dash' while beaconing (or next best a series of dashes). I won't have much time to spend on LF next weekend, but I keep my fingers crossed for the 'decca test'. 73, Rik ON7YD At 10:36 14/04/00 +0000, you wrote: >so it might be worth the people across the pond having a listen over >the weekend. > >Cheers, Jim Moritz >73 de M0BMU > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20958 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2000 10:55:38 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Apr 2000 10:55:38 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12g3cA-00001Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 11:46:18 +0100 Received: from mserv1b.u-net.net ([195.102.240.137]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12g3c8-00001U-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 11:46:17 +0100 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1b.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 12g3bn-0004Fz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 11:45:55 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 11:32:07 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 11:32:06 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: LOC G3WSC/P In-reply-to: <38F476A8.1FB10252@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > G3KEV- IO94SH ---------G3WSC/P- IO91XS--------AZ 175, DISTANCE 287.3 Kms > > G3KEV- IO94SH -------- MM0ALM- IO87UA--------AZ 340, DISTANCE 320.8 Kms > > MM0ALM is 2db stronger > de G3KEV/SCARBOROUGH. So, if both MM0ALM and G3WSC were running 1W ERP, this completely destroys the argument that higher antennas always work better for the same ERP! Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25382 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2000 11:31:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Apr 2000 11:31:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12g49U-00008k-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 12:20:44 +0100 Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12g497-00008d-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 12:20:22 +0100 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id MAA15879; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 12:22:52 +0100 (BST) Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: (qmail 24461 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2000 12:17:15 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 14 Apr 2000 12:17:15 -0000 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id LAA14547; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 11:07:47 GMT Received: from unknown(146.80.11.40) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma014478; Fri, 14 Apr 00 11:07:37 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 2.0.15) with ESMTP id ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 12:21:41 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by FRN-GOLD-1 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id <2J0979Z6>; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 12:16:43 +0100 Message-ID: <3617AC3245C2D1118A840000F805359C0175285E@PDW-MERCURY-1> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: "'LF Group'" Cc: "'KZY'" Subject: LF: DSP Experimentation, Antenna book etc. Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 12:16:39 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: If anyone wants to experiment with simple DSP techniques beyong just plugging in Gram etc, or even wants to try some programming without having to learn Windows API calls and how to use the soundcard, ICs for the serial port interface described in RadCom a good few years ago are still available. For those who don't remember the article, this was an 8 bit A/D converter digitising audio at 10000 / 7142 / 2500 Hz and sending the samples up the serial port to a PC. The idea being that this was a simple way for users to develop their own DSP type software in standard high level programming language without having to bother with the digitising side of matters. PC software available with the module at the time generated waterfalls and spectrum plots, although I have to admit that for these functions alone, these days you are better off using Gram and the Soundblaster. With slightly different PIC code for the interface, and a change of crystal, it will also work at 7200 Hz sampling instead of the overcomplicated sigma-delta interface specified for the VE2IQ software One function also available with this module was a simple downconversion from a 1000 Hz tone to zero frequency, the output consisting of Inphase and Quadrature components allowing phase measurements and vectorscope type programmes to be written easily. As far as I know, this function is not yet freely available for the S/B (sits back and waits for howls of refutation). A quick plug now - a commercial version of this interface with additional slow speed data logging functions built in, is available from HF Instruments - see their advert in the latest RadCom and web page HF-INST.CO.UK. The data logging function could be useful, for instance, for recording the AGC line over many hours while listening to a propagation beacon in the same way that a chart recorder would be used. To Larry and Co. if you have a 56002EVM available I now have some software for the PC that will let you sample a signal at 0.035 Hz (much faster rates are also of course possible), and produce waterfalls this wide looking in a bandwidth of 0.00012 Hz (yes, 120uHz). For QRSS that would require a dot length of 4 - 7 hours and around 12 days for a callsign. Rather silly but quite possible! I produced an overnight Dopplergram plot of the DCF77 time transmission and managed to clearly see some ionospheric spreading at night not present during the daylight hours. There really are visible ionospheric effects on 77 kHz signals but the picture is marred by the few mHz drift due to the Codec crystal changing the sampling rate as the room cooled in the night. If anyone wants a copy of this contact me directly on G4JNT@ARRL.NET After reading all comments / discussions / arguments / heated debate about antennas recently ........ Just found a very good book on antenna design on a work colleague's bookshelf. "The Handbook of Antenna Design" Vols 1 & 2 by A Rudge, K Milne et al. ISBN 0-86341-052-9. Thought by many to be one of the best books on antennas there is. After a serious bit of arm twisting I managed to borrow it from him for a few days. There is a decent sized chapter (over 100 pages) on VLF / LF antennas and another large chapter on HF ones. More importantly it does not have pages upon pages of squiggly maths - just simple equations that the average non-mathematician can actually use and plenty of diagrams and graphs to just read off the results. And finally ........... To those who complained they have never heard me on LF. I don't, and won't, operate normal speed CW. I hate the mode but will just about use it under protest on 10 GHz where it works well for rainscatter (and we keep to decent speeds with much repetition anyway). On LF I intend to stay with the far more effective (in S/N terms even if not in simplicity) PSK and other systems even if it means very few people to work ! Morse might be cheap and simple, but that is it's only advantage these days. CW may well be a skill, but not one I'm prepared to practice at keeping up (Sits back and waits for even more flak !) Andy G4JNT -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18116 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2000 12:01:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Apr 2000 12:01:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12g4hA-0000EN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 12:55:32 +0100 Received: from smtp11.bellglobal.com ([204.101.251.53]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12g4h9-0000EI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 12:55:31 +0100 Received: from server1 (Kingston-ppp64645.sympatico.ca [216.208.85.26]) by smtp11.bellglobal.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id IAA25941 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 08:01:02 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <004d01bfa608$03c27cd0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Discussion, please, Coast location vs DCF39 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 07:53:09 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Gentlemen: Rik, ON7YD, wrote.... >But the fact that they are far >more west compared to DCF39 may nibble of some dB's. and then Jim Moritz, M0BMU wrote....... >so it might be worth the people across the pond having a listen over >the weekend. There has been much discussion about Antennas and ERP, would you all humour me with a discussion, as vigorous as possible, on TWO issues of path loss... The first, the difference in path loss from DCF39 Transmitter location in Germany to a good location on the west coast of the UK, EI, GW, G, GM....... and second, the difference in path loss from the EAST coast of Newfoundland from an inland site in Eastern Ontario. My home is about 1600 kms west of the Newfoundland coast. and my thanks to Jim Moritz, M0BMU who wrote..... >I also noticed DCF39 was off air at about 0100utc last night. It was >back on again later. I was starting to think I had an intermittent in the system at one point. A vigorous discussion on the path loss over land issues will be most appreciated. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27552 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2000 12:23:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Apr 2000 12:23:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12g52T-0000KD-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 13:17:33 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hs-img-3.compuserve.com ([149.174.177.148] helo=sphmgaac.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12g52Q-0000K6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 13:17:30 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by sphmgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id IAA28612 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 08:16:46 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 08:15:39 -0400 From: "Holger 'Geri', DK8KW" Subject: Re: LF: DCF39 info please To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200004140815_MC2-A13A-468D@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi friends, >In case Larry (or some others at the other side of the pond) watch the >signal with Spectogram it might be a good idea to add 5 to 10 second 'dash' >while beaconing (or next best a series of dashes). there is an excellent program that will do this trick as well, it was written by someone called Rik, ON7YD and is called QRS. No kidding, I found out last week that Rik's program will do "normal CW" beaconing with 10 (or longer) dashes in between when I was looking for a way to key my transmitter for my own ERP measurements. Great tool! Vy 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) .... a very very young ham .... at least 2-3 dB younger ... From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 821 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2000 12:36:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Apr 2000 12:36:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12g5EW-0000MX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 13:30:00 +0100 Received: from ds-img-3.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.136] helo=spdmgaac.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12g5EU-0000MN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 13:29:58 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id IAA19590 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 08:29:15 -0400 (EDT) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 08:28:48 -0400 From: "Holger 'Geri', DK8KW" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Discussion, please, Coast location vs DCF39 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200004140829_MC2-A13A-479B@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Larry, >A vigorous discussion on the path loss over land issues will be most >appreciated. >Larry >VA3LK at least the pass loss over Germany seems not to be as serious as we anticipated. If you have a look on my homepage (www.qru.de), you will see that all theoretical calculations make the field strength curve bend downwards after 80 or 100 km. What Gamal and me measured, showed a strict logarithmic behaviour at least up to my door (120 km away from DCF39). So there is hope for some dB ... But seriously: I think you saidpreviously that you was able to hear DCF39 above the noise, so as G0MRF and ON7YD said in an earlier mail its only 26 dB difference and that should hopefully do it (I can detect QRSS signals approximately 15 to 20 dB below the weakest signal I just can detect by ear ...). The difference between my signal and DCF39 is about 61 dB, that sounds a little bit too difficult ... and I am sure it does not help that I am 120 km closer to Canada compared to DCF39 ... so lets first try with the Decca-Mast Gang! Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6218 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2000 13:10:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Apr 2000 13:10:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12g5kj-0000Uh-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 14:03:17 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12g5kW-0000Uc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 14:03:04 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA39564 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 15:02:43 +0200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000414145904.49578978@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 14:59:04 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Discussion, please, Coast location vs DCF39 In-reply-to: <004d01bfa608$03c27cd0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: There seems to be a serious difference in propagation between the VE-UK and VE-central Europe. CHF was often reported in the UK with signals up to 10dB better than I could copy it and if I remind well the difference with DK8KW (who lives pretty close to DCF39) was even more. A 10dB less path loss from west-UK seems realistic. 73, Rik ON7YD At 07:53 14/04/00 -0400, VA3LK wrote: >There has been much discussion about Antennas and ERP, would you all humour >me with a discussion, as vigorous as possible, on TWO issues of path loss... > >The first, the difference in path loss from DCF39 Transmitter location in >Germany to a good location on the west coast of the UK, EI, GW, G, GM....... > >and second, the difference in path loss from the EAST coast of Newfoundland >from an inland site in Eastern Ontario. My home is about 1600 kms west of >the Newfoundland coast. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29245 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2000 13:10:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Apr 2000 13:10:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12g5jp-0000UW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 14:02:21 +0100 Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12g5jo-0000UR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 14:02:20 +0100 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 12g5k3-0006EW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 14:02:36 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 13:51:14 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 13:51:08 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: Re: TransAtlantic II In-reply-to: <001d01bfa559$57ebb240$18b0073e@dave> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3YMC wrote: > Also the opportunity to use the Decca masts in the current experiment is a > golden opportunity which shouldn't be missed. It may well be argued that > QSOs made with commercial stations shouldn't count for rewards, but that > is not the point. The rules of the Peter Bobek award deliberately allow any type of antenna, even a commercial one, as anyone can erect a 200ft vertical for about ten pounds (by using a kite). It does, however, prohibit the use of a special high power permit because the real point is to make the QSO with normal licensed ERP. This does not mean that a transatlantic QSO using 100W or even 1000W is not interesting or useful, but just that it is outside the award. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16159 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2000 14:47:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Apr 2000 14:47:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12g7Fg-0000tg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 15:39:20 +0100 Received: from apollo.le.ac.uk ([143.210.16.125]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12g7Fe-0000tb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 15:39:18 +0100 Received: from pc171.geog.le.ac.uk ([143.210.25.171] helo=kate) by apollo.le.ac.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #2) id 12g7FQ-0007fB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 15:39:04 +0100 From: "kate moore" To: "lfgroup" Subject: LF: Activity update Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 15:31:50 +0100 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Importance: Normal Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: As Kate has been away, I've been without email for nearly a week. This report is rather out of date in consequence, but might be of interest to give a flavour of what is happening on 73kHz. I spent the complete weekend on the lower band only, missing the chance to work G4KLF on 136kHz, but making up for it by working a lot of new stations and some new countries using 73kHz. On Friday 7th I had 2-way normal CW QSOs with G3YXM and M0BMU, and crossband QSOs to 136kHz with GI3PDN (two), G8RW and GW4ALG. I wasn't sure if this was the first G/GW:73/136 as I knew Mike had previously done a lot of sterling work on LF from GW, so I was pleasantly surprised to learn from him that it was. Particular thanks to Steve for scrambling about at short notice retuning his receive setup to 73kHz and then keeping it there to work some of the other lads during the rest of the weekend. Ray had kindly alerted Finbar that I was audible on 73, and we did briefly try a crossband on Friday afternoon, but Finbar had also thrown together a lashup (and had crawled out of bed after a night-shift!), so when he didn't hear me then, I suggested we abandon it until Saturday. 73kHz was really busy on Saturday and I had 2-way QSOs with G2AJV, M0BMU, G3KAU and G3LDO, plus two excellent crossbands to 136 with EI0CF. The contacts with Roger and Lech were firsts for me on the band and the initial crossband with Finbar was his first - although I only just beat Dave 'YXM to it!! Finbar, like Ray, now seems pretty hooked and worked quite a few stations over the weekend. I was really pleased to hear G3LDO work Finbar, which I imagine is the furthest normal CW contact that has been made using 73kHz(?). First thing that morning I also made a QRSS transmission, as planned, and was very happy to find that Valerio managed to copy it at 'M/T'. On Sunday I repeated the QRSS transmission, then had 2-way QSOs with G3XTZ, G0MRF at Hastings (both new ones for me) and G3XDV, plus crossband QSOs to 136 with EI0CF, G3OLB, GI3PDN and MM0ALM. The latter was again set up for me by Ray, catching Dave 'ALM rather on the hop as he wasn't tuned up at all on 73kHz! Nevertheless we did manage to swap reports, so the contact was completed. I gather Dave 'YXM and Graham also worked MM0ALM later. Despite what some would have us believe, it is certainly much harder to radiate a good signal on 73kHz than on 136kHz, with ALL signals noticibly weaker on the lower band. After all this time, it's wonderful to see the renewed interest in this band before we loose it for ever, and a tremendous relief to have it clear of the Rugby QRM for a while. Thanks indeed to everyone who made the effort to provide a little fun down there over the weekend. Also congratulations are due to Derek and Lech, with help from Mike and Jim, for the excellent work they did in getting the Puckeridge station on the air on Tuesday. They were an amazing signal on 136kHz (although the report I gave them seems to have increased somewhat from the S9+20dB at the time!) and were even up to S7 on 73kHz when still off tune. I didn't stay around long enough to work them on 73 that night, so really hope I get a chance over the weekend. (At present, Thurs evening, the Rugby RTTY signal is still off despite MSF coming back up - it would be fantastic if it stayed off until these tests are completed). It's all too easy to underestimate how much physical effort is involved in a project like this, and when you consider that neither Derek or Lech are 'youngsters' any more, they deserve nothing but praise for what they achieved. Well done, fellas, and good luck over the coming weekend. John G4GVC From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1433 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2000 15:13:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Apr 2000 15:13:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12g7fJ-00010v-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 16:05:49 +0100 Received: from ds9.sci.fi ([195.74.0.54]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12g7fH-00010q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 16:05:47 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from default (MKLXXVI.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.165.176]) by ds9.sci.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id SAA12840 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 18:05:32 +0300 (EET DST) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000414180555.0086a830@pop.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: oh2lx@pop.saunalahti.fi X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 18:05:55 +0300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: Re: LF: LOC G3WSC/P In-reply-to: References: <38F476A8.1FB10252@netscapeonline.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Actually no reason to interfere in these discussions, but as late as in 1960's, I unambiguously refused to believe that measuring pure ground wave field strength can be so demanding, (not to talk about pure single or mixed sky-wave component). In the case below there appear to be several possibilities: 1. The "real EMRP" is not the same (very probable), 2. The "path loss" G3WSC/P-G3KEV is greater, ie so called "effective electrical path conductivity" is smaller, also, during winter time there is no "pure" ground wave on a 300 km long (ground) path, not even during daylight, the local path here: OH1TN-OH2LX (152km) is an example, 3. Mal's receiving installation has some "directivity", 4. Mal's "measurements" are not reliable enough (sorry...) 73 de Vaino, OH2LX At 11:32 14.4.2000 +0100, Malcom wrote: > >> G3KEV- IO94SH ---------G3WSC/P- IO91XS--------AZ 175, DISTANCE 287.3 Kms >> >> G3KEV- IO94SH -------- MM0ALM- IO87UA--------AZ 340, DISTANCE 320.8 Kms >> >> MM0ALM is 2db stronger >> de G3KEV/SCARBOROUGH. > >So, if both MM0ALM and G3WSC were running 1W ERP, this >completely destroys the argument that higher antennas >always work better for the same ERP! > >Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) >http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29026 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2000 15:58:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Apr 2000 15:58:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12g8I8-0001Am-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 16:45:56 +0100 Received: from smtp11.bellglobal.com ([204.101.251.53]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12g8I6-0001Ae-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 16:45:55 +0100 Received: from server1 (Kingston-ppp64651.sympatico.ca [216.208.85.32]) by smtp11.bellglobal.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id LAA07603; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 11:51:24 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001601bfa628$329d8570$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, "Mike Dennison" Subject: LF: Discussion of the Peter Bobek award, and TransAtlantic II Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 10:53:41 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings All. Gentlemen: I would sincerely appreciate if discussions about the Peter Bobek award in any terms of the activities of the TransAtlantic II project be avoided now and until after TransAtlantic II results are known at the end of next November. I am very sure that Peter Bobek was a person of honour, and some justly feel that the award was conceived and now promoted as a recognition of a great achievement in LF. The facts are, that the award requirements must and will have ZERO impact on how TransAtlantic II will be undertaken from this side of the Atlantic. I have only read the award requirements in a most cursory manner and will not read them again until after we return from VO1 in November. I have nothing against or for the award, but I do know my focus - have signals heard both ways and if possible get a two way QSO across the North Atlantic in November. The simple facts of the matter are, that what we have to do to get an LF QSO in the amateur LF band across the North Atlantic the FIRST time will be many dB in excess of what will be required to have the 200th or 2000th QSO across the North Atlantic on LF. We can test the results achieved by TransAtlantic II, and wouldn't it be wonderful if we could do it with 1W erp, after the test period is over. If the award requirements have been met then well and good. If the award requirements have not been meet this also is well and good. My personal feelings are that I would really like to have a serious discussion later this year about the qualification for the award, that would mean that some signals were heard either way or a completed QSO was achieved over the North Atlantic..... Summary, the award does not drive the project, the award is a byproduct of the results of the project. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3682 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2000 19:24:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Apr 2000 19:24:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gBXT-0001kx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 20:13:59 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gBXR-0001ks-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 20:13:58 +0100 Received: from as24-s16-146-36.cwci.net ([195.44.146.36] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gBXC-0000nP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 19:13:44 +0000 Message-ID: <38F75EFE.FACEC103@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 18:10:06 +0000 From: "g3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: (More) Nonsense from Kev References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G0MRF@aol.com wrote: > In a message dated 4/12/00 10:16:44 PM GMT Daylight Time, > g3kev@netscapeonline.co.uk writes: > > << Very few signals generated by such amplifiers and used by radio amateurs > have > a pure sine wave output after one 5 pole LPF, except at very low power > levels, >> > > Hello. > > I think you will find that the relative level of harmonics (dBc) will depend > on the characteristics of the LPF and source / load impedances i.e. the > correct filter terminating impedance, and not the applied power levels. > > Equally: The relative level of radiated harmonics (dBc) is generally > speaking independent of antenna whether it's at 130 feet or a long wire a > "few feet off the ground" > > "amateurs....push class D/E amplifier too hard" - With square wave drive the > harder they are driven, the better they are. > > No one has a pure sinewave output. > > A low pass filter will not remove key clicks as they are within the passband > of the LPF. > > 90% of multikilowatt MF broadcasters use class D/E etc. > > Surprisingly, the UK amateur radio licence allows up to 1% of energy to fall > outside the amateur bands, so this would not be of any interest to the RIS. > In anycase 250Hz is 'inband' and would be considered a problem to be resolved > by the band's users. - If it was considered a problem at all. On any other amateur band it would be considered a problem if it interfered with other amateur transmissions so what is special about 136 khz. It would certainly concern me if every cw transmission had a 250 khz spread of key clicks. Dont suppose you are a regular cw operator. I think the RIS would be very interested if there was a complaint. You misread my original message and getting confused about key clicks and harmonics. Key clicks are one thing and harmonics another. 1. I was making the point that the transmission had key clicks and needed to be checked. > 2. I was saying that because of the intensity of the signal, the odd harmonics > also needed to be checked to avoid interference to other services and use > several poles of LPF'S to avoid harmonic radiation, especially if an erp of 100 > w is to be used. > > Using a computer and spectran / gram clearly demonstrates the larger > bandwidth occupied by fast CW transmissions. As the band is very narrow, > should we put an upper speed limit on CW - to limit the occupied bandwidth? You dont have to worry David there is no chance of you exceeding the speed limit !!!!!!!!!! > > (Hi) > > Goodness Mal. They only had a mast bigger than yours. The difference is that I bought and installed my own mast !!!!!!!!!!! "Oswald Mc Donald Jr"----- Nothing like owning your own MERCEDES instead of borrowing a friends !!!!!! > > "So many negative vibes" - Donald Sutherland. > Was Donald able to explain to you why your signals were not getting as far as Scarborough in spite of all the rhetoric from your qth. > 73 > > David From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21989 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2000 19:36:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Apr 2000 19:36:23 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gBnU-0001nW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 20:30:32 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fm215.facility.pipex.com ([194.131.104.225]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gBnT-0001nR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 20:30:31 +0100 Received: from isis (userk584.uk.uudial.com [193.149.70.160]) by fm215.facility.pipex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id UAA18806 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 20:30:11 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000414202904.00965100@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 20:29:31 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: Decca mast MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: There's a pic of the Decca mast the DMG are using this weekend at: http://www.blacksheep.org/lf/decmast.jpg and a pic of the old Decca ATU coils at: http://www.blacksheep.org/lf/coils.jpg There had to be five coils because Decca transmittted on five frequencies simultaneously three times a minute. Made the aerial current to go up to 60A!!!!! Walter G3JKV - the kid of the party - I'm only 69! From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13049 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2000 20:06:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Apr 2000 20:06:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gCH4-0001sr-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:01:06 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gCH3-0001sm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:01:05 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from as24-s15-144-210.cwci.net ([195.44.144.210] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gCGp-0002LX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 20:00:52 +0000 Message-ID: <38F76A8E.AAF015DB@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 18:59:26 +0000 From: "g3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: LOC G3WSC/P References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mike Dennison wrote: > > G3KEV- IO94SH ---------G3WSC/P- IO91XS--------AZ 175, DISTANCE 287.3 Kms > > > > G3KEV- IO94SH -------- MM0ALM- IO87UA--------AZ 340, DISTANCE 320.8 Kms > > > > MM0ALM is 2db stronger > > de G3KEV/SCARBOROUGH. > > So, if both MM0ALM and G3WSC were running 1W ERP, this > completely destroys the argument that higher antennas > always work better for the same ERP! Mike. Speculation again. Do you know exactly the paramaters of each site, and power levels. One site has one tower at over 300 ft and the other, two towers at 130 ft but possible a more elaborate antenna system. I gave the signal levels as received at my QTH but do not have any other details except that it has been suggested in a previous message that G3WSC was running more like 2 w erp. Earth losses, radial systems need some consideration also, in this case the the higher tower might not be optimised. The performance of a 300 ft tower on one site might be totally different for the same tower on another site, because of local environment, coastal or inland, humidity etc. This has all been discussed before and never been been satisfactory resolved. A short tower on a very good site would possibly outperform a larger tower on a poor site. I do not really get your point since neither of us know the facts. I did notice tonight that the decca signal was stronger than the earlier test. I expect the power has been increased but only about 5 db difference. I think they are reaching the diminishing returns situation where the power would need to be increased significantly to be really noticeable. Their signal in no way matches DFC considering how close they are to me. When I get time I must make some measurements on the analyser for comparison purposes. 73 G3KEV > > > Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) > http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8920 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2000 20:54:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Apr 2000 20:54:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gD1n-0001yX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:49:23 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gD1m-0001yS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:49:22 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from dennison.demon.co.uk ([194.222.239.33]) by anchor-post-32.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12gD1W-000Chk-0W for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:49:07 +0100 Message-ID: <5RJO5CASO494Ew2f@dennison.demon.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:46:10 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Mike Dennison" Subject: LF: Puckeridge Decca pictures MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Version 3.03a Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have posted some of the photos I took whilst at Puckeridge last Tuesday evening. Take the link from the page below. -- Mike, G3XDV IO91VT http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12576 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2000 21:18:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Apr 2000 21:18:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gDNY-00023M-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:11:52 +0100 Received: from merlins.plus.net.uk ([195.166.128.23] helo=merlins.force9.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gDNV-00023H-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:11:49 +0100 Received: (qmail 5627 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2000 21:13:49 -0000 Received: from ruin.servers.plus.net.uk (212.159.2.66) by merlins.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Apr 2000 21:13:49 -0000 Received: (qmail 32221 invoked from network); 14 Apr 2000 21:13:50 -0000 Received: from 124.03-04.quay.dial.plus.net.uk (HELO main) (212.159.78.124) by ruin.servers.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 14 Apr 2000 21:13:50 -0000 Message-ID: <00b101bfa656$bb0db820$0600a8c0@main> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Contact number Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 22:16:41 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all. The Puckeridge LF station, G3WSC/P, can be contacted directly for the rest of the weekend on (0)1920 821 819 Only use this number whilst the ststion is operational. QRS reception and transmission will be available on Saturday. We may also have access to e-mail so will be able to view messages posted on here. 73, Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2052 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2000 00:09:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Apr 2000 00:09:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gG2y-0002VI-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 01:02:48 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gG2x-0002VD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 01:02:47 +0100 Received: from [213.1.190.176] (helo=default) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12gG2I-0000D2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 01:02:06 +0100 Message-ID: <000301bfa66c$c2b0aae0$b0be01d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Puckeridge Beacon Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 00:53:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, for what it is worth I can copy a recognisable pattern from the beacon transmission with 90dB of attenuation inserted in front of the receiver. I am using the usual parameters for 3sec dot QRS (500msec time scale and averaging of 5) The signal at this level is equivalent to 5nV at the input of the RX, but it is not characteristic of what reception would be like at distance, as I have attenuated the band noise as well!! The object was to see if the transmission pattern would be recognisable at threashold levels.....I guess it is. You are doing a great job fellas Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21125 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2000 01:07:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Apr 2000 01:07:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gGvI-0002cc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 01:58:56 +0100 Received: from smtp11.bellglobal.com ([204.101.251.53]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gGvH-0002cX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 01:58:55 +0100 Received: from server1 (Kingston-ppp64644.sympatico.ca [216.208.85.25]) by smtp11.bellglobal.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id VAA03082 for ; Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:04:27 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <000f01bfa675$750acdd0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Eastern Ontario tonight Date: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 20:48:12 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings: Not good news, summer static is quite high, we have thunderstorms south or south west of us it seems. DCF39 is not strong either. Back to prayer for a nice X class flare, quickly...... Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26318 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2000 05:04:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Apr 2000 05:04:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gKfG-00037N-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 05:58:38 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ds-img-3.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.136] helo=spdmgaac.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gKfF-00036k-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 05:58:37 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id AAA12156; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 00:57:21 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 00:57:02 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Field Strength G3WSC in DL To: "LF-Reflector" , "amrad" Message-ID: <200004150057_MC2-A147-7F2A@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello YLs and OMs, I made some field strength measurements of the G3WSC operation as follows: Call ERP as Field Strenght said in QSO ============================================================= G3WSC/p 1 W ERP 19.1 dB microVolt/m G3WSC in QSO yesterday night 13 W ERP 24.1 dB microVolt/m G3WSC Beacon Saturday morning ? 34.1 dB microVolt/m at a distance of 697 km as comparison 7S6SAJ ? 41.6 dB microVolt/m at a distance of 737 km. (to compare with other signals on my homepage: add 108.1 dB to the dBu values shown in the table, I will update my table with dB microVolt values soon). The CCIR-propagation curves for ground-wave propagation roughly indicate a field strength of 45 dB microVolt/m for a 1 kW ERP signal at a distance of 700 km (depending on ground conductivity). As my measurments were just taken randomly, they include some variables such as varying propagation, day- and night difference, etc. and therefore are not completely consistent. However, the data at least give some indication about the radiated power. Keep on the work, its worth doing it! I will keep on observing and measuring, hopefully catch your signal on 73 kHz today, I am looking especially for my first 'normal CW' crossband QSO. What are your operarting frequencies and schedules for 73 kHz? Vy 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) http://www.qru.de From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11008 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2000 06:26:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Apr 2000 06:26:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gLw9-0003HT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 07:20:09 +0100 Received: from mail.sci.fi ([195.74.0.41] helo=pyyhe.saunalahti.fi ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gLw8-0003HO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 07:20:08 +0100 Received: from default (MDCLII.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.41.152]) by pyyhe.saunalahti.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA21269 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 09:31:50 +0300 (EET DST) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000415092026.007d17e0@pop.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: oh2lx@pop.saunalahti.fi (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 09:20:26 +0300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: LF: Special Measurements by OH2LX MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Special Report, G3WSC Puckeridge ¤ 14 April 2000 --------------------------------------------------- UTC Freq dBuV dBmW Remarks --------------------------------------------------- 1933 137.2 -17 -124 Wkg OZ8NJ (= <-24?) 1943 -17 -124 Wkg OZ5BM (= <-24?) 2024 136.9 -12 -119 Wkg IK5ZPV(Nil) 2027 -11 -118 Wkg G4GCV (= <-24?) 2052 -11 -118 Wkg G3XTZ (= <-24?) 2102 -10 -117 Wkg G3XDV (= <-24?) 2111 -9 -116 2117 -8 -115 2212 137.8 -8 -115 ---------------------------------------------------- 2240 tuning -10 > -6 (someone else also tuning?) 2246 on 137.8 -15 > gradually to ..> -1 dBuV ---------------------------------------------------- 2300 137.7 -0 -107 G3WSC (every 24 secs) 2324 138.2 -2 -109 G3WSC ... listening until 0013, stable at -2 dBuV or -109 dBmW ---------------------------------------------------- Other stations heard: 1702: OH1TN -115..-113; 2036: -112 1717: OH1BS -115; 2023: -115; 2118: -116; 2155: -122 2041: SM6PXJ -117..-115; 2102: -115; 2107: -117 ----------------------------------------------------- Irish Decca 128.2; 128.93; 138.83 & SXV quite normal ----------------------------------------------------- (R&S ESH2/---- 10m coax---/1:10/---15m wire-----): Noise level with antenna: with 200Hz IF BandWidth: -24..-21 dB(uV), -131..-128dBmW (varies w qrm etc) ----------------------------------------------------- End of message of 15 April 2000, 0620 UTC, from OH2LX ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6847 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2000 07:35:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Apr 2000 07:35:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gN1w-0003Pp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 08:30:12 +0100 Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gN1v-0003Pk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 08:30:11 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer (man-048.dialup.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.41.59]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id IAA21593 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 08:29:56 +0100 Message-ID: <001401bfa6ac$769c3e40$3b29f7c2@oemcomputer> From: "John Rabson" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <000301bfa66c$c2b0aae0$b0be01d5@default> Subject: LF: Re: Puckeridge Beacon Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 08:30:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Also S3 here on a 17 turn 80 cm loop designed for cave radio on 88 kHz and not retuned. Many thanks gentlemen for all your efforts. 73 de John Rabson G3PAI ----- Original Message ----- From: Alan Melia To: rsgb_lf_group Sent: Saturday, April 15, 2000 12:53 AM Subject: LF: Puckeridge Beacon > Hi All, for what it is worth I can copy a recognisable pattern from the > beacon transmission with 90dB of attenuation inserted in front of the > receiver. I am using the usual parameters for 3sec dot QRS (500msec time > scale and averaging of 5) The signal at this level is equivalent to 5nV at > the input of the RX, but it is not characteristic of what reception would be > like at distance, as I have attenuated the band noise as well!! The object > was to see if the transmission pattern would be recognisable at threashold > levels.....I guess it is. > You are doing a great job fellas > Cheers de Alan G3NYK > Alan.Melia@btinternet.com > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15668 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2000 08:06:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Apr 2000 08:06:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gNW3-0003U7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 09:01:19 +0100 Received: from hs-img-6.compuserve.com ([149.174.177.155] helo=sphmgaaf.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gNW2-0003Sq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 09:01:18 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by sphmgaaf.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id DAA04538; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 03:58:41 -0400 (EDT) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 03:58:07 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Slow CW Sensitivity Measurments To: "LF-Reflector" , "amrad" Message-ID: <200004150358_MC2-A152-6777@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello friends, I made some laboratory tests this morning to get some indication about the ability to communicate with signals below noise level using Slow-CW. I used a calibrated frequency synthesizer (Adret 2230), an 0-120 dB attenuator in 1 dB steps (Schlumberger BMD500) and my Praecitronic MV61 Selective Level Meter. With a BNC t-connector I fed the normal band noise including loran lines on 137.500 kHz (+/- 50 Hz) to one side of the t-connector, and the output of the frequency synthesizer to the other side. With the attenuator I made sure that a 0 dBm (50 Ohm) signal with the synthesizer corresponds to a -80 dBu (75 Ohm) signal at the MV62 (plus/minus 1 dB). The band was quite this morning, with a background noise around -110 dBu (approx. S 4) and Loran lines clearly visible. Using the 100 Hz bandwidth of the MV62 and the cascaded 250 Hz/500 Hz CW filters of the IC-746 I checked the signal by ear as well as with the Spectrogram software with the normal parameters I use for "3-5 second-dot-length" Slow-CW (5.5k sample rate, 16bit mono, 16384 points FFT = 0.3 Hz resolution, 60 dB scale, 300 ms time scale, 10 x average) and obtained the following results: Injected Received Comment Signal Signal Strength Strength - 20 dBm - 100 dBu good audible CW signal (approx. S6) - 30 dBm - 110 dBu CW signal approx. equal to background noise (S4), just can be copied - 35 dBm - 115 dBu boundary for aural CW, signal just detectable by ear - 45 dBm - 125 dBu good "O" signal in Slow-CW, signal same level as Loran-lines - 50 dBm - 130 dBu still good readable Slow-CW signal "M" - 55 dBm - 135 dBu Slow-CW just detectable "T" - 60 dBm - 140 dBu Slow-CW signal not any more detectable with above listed parameters Conclusions: Slow-CW has a 20 dB signal level advantage over normal (aural CW), which means that the minimum detectable and/or readable Slow-CW signal that might just allow communication lies 20 dB below the signal, that can just be detected and/or decoded by a trained CW-operator's ear (yes, I consider myself to be a trained CW operator ...). If I consider the "CW-operator's ear/brain bandwidth" to be 30 Hz, this roughly corresponds to the bandwidths used (0.3 vs 30 Hz). I would be interested to get your comments or own measurements on this subject. I do not yet have sufficient experience with Spectran to make full advantage of this software, so I would like to hear about that software as well. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27941 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2000 08:12:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Apr 2000 08:12:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gNcC-0003UR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 09:07:40 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gNcB-0003UM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 09:07:39 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [195.44.218.249] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gNby-0006oj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 08:07:26 +0000 Message-ID: <38F814D0.2AF39840@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 07:05:53 +0000 From: "g3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: KEY CLICKS AGAIN Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3WSC key clicks this morning Saturday 15/0800utc on beacon mode. Spreading from 137.24 - 138.23 khz. It seems worse on slow cw beacon mode, both inband and outside the band. It needs to be cleaned up for the benefit of other band users. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2061 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2000 09:02:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Apr 2000 09:02:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gON2-0003Zd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 09:56:04 +0100 Received: from post.interalpha.co.uk ([195.26.224.18] helo=post.interalpha.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gON0-0003ZY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 09:56:02 +0100 Received: from g4jnt (sot-mod58.interalpha.net [195.26.225.58]) by post.interalpha.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA32238 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 10:01:56 +0100 Message-ID: <002e01bfa6b8$71b761a0$3ae11ac3@g4jnt> From: "Andy Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Slow CW Sensitivity Measurments Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 09:54:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Which shows that the processing by eye is about as good as the processing by a good CW ear about 10dB S/N in their respective bandwidths. I think I would agree with the 30 Hz effective ear bandwidth when listening to a tone. Think what could be achieved in a 0.03 Hz bandwidth ! Both these are energy detection methods, the electrical equivalent being a rectifier on the output of the IF strip driving a chart recorder. Now if instead of the signal being switched on and off, it was switched plus or minus. The movement is twice as far and another 3dB is gained. That is PSK. Andy G4JNT -----Original Message----- From: 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW To: LF-Reflector ; amrad Date: 15 April 2000 09:37 Subject: LF: Slow CW Sensitivity Measurments >Hello friends, > >I made some laboratory tests this morning to get some indication about the >ability to communicate with signals below noise level using Slow-CW. > >I used a calibrated frequency synthesizer (Adret 2230), an 0-120 dB >attenuator in 1 dB steps (Schlumberger BMD500) and my Praecitronic MV61 >Selective Level Meter. With a BNC t-connector I fed the normal band noise >including loran lines on 137.500 kHz (+/- 50 Hz) to one side of the >t-connector, and the output of the frequency synthesizer to the other side. > >With the attenuator I made sure that a 0 dBm (50 Ohm) signal with the >synthesizer corresponds to a -80 dBu (75 Ohm) signal at the MV62 >(plus/minus 1 dB). > >The band was quite this morning, with a background noise around -110 dBu >(approx. S 4) and Loran lines clearly visible. > >Using the 100 Hz bandwidth of the MV62 and the cascaded 250 Hz/500 Hz CW >filters of the IC-746 I checked the signal by ear as well as with the >Spectrogram software with the normal parameters I use for "3-5 >second-dot-length" Slow-CW (5.5k sample rate, 16bit mono, 16384 points FFT >= 0.3 Hz resolution, 60 dB scale, 300 ms time scale, 10 x average) and >obtained the following results: > >Injected Received Comment >Signal Signal >Strength Strength > > >- 20 dBm - 100 dBu good audible CW signal (approx. S6) >- 30 dBm - 110 dBu CW signal approx. equal to >background noise (S4), just can be copied >- 35 dBm - 115 dBu boundary for aural CW, signal just >detectable by ear >- 45 dBm - 125 dBu good "O" signal in Slow-CW, signal >same level as Loran-lines >- 50 dBm - 130 dBu still good readable Slow-CW signal >"M" >- 55 dBm - 135 dBu Slow-CW just detectable "T" >- 60 dBm - 140 dBu Slow-CW signal not any more >detectable with above listed parameters > > >Conclusions: > >Slow-CW has a 20 dB signal level advantage over normal (aural CW), which >means that the minimum detectable and/or readable Slow-CW signal that might >just allow communication lies 20 dB below the signal, that can just be >detected and/or decoded by a trained CW-operator's ear (yes, I consider >myself to be a trained CW operator ...). If I consider the "CW-operator's >ear/brain bandwidth" to be 30 Hz, this roughly corresponds to the >bandwidths used (0.3 vs 30 Hz). > >I would be interested to get your comments or own measurements on this >subject. I do not yet have sufficient experience with Spectran to make full >advantage of this software, so I would like to hear about that software as >well. > > >Best 73 > >Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28376 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2000 11:21:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Apr 2000 11:21:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gQM5-0003pp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 12:03:13 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gQM4-0003pk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 12:03:12 +0100 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id MAA08173 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 12:02:58 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <2000041511023268199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:02:32 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: Re: LF: Slow CW Sensitivity Measurments Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello Geri > I made some laboratory tests this morning to get some indication about the > ability to communicate with signals below noise level using Slow-CW. A most interesting set of measurements. Most of us who use this mode felt that an it gave an extra 15 to 20dBs but this is the first time I have seen objective measurements. While not giving the same noise improvement described in the pionering work of G3PLX and G4JNT described in the LF Experimenter's Book, Spectrogram and Spectran does provide a convenient compromise that can be managed by us non-techies. I have made some improvements to the antenna and although this gives me an extra 0.5Amps on transmit, the downside is that it has increased the level of the Loran sidebands. While the strength of each of these sidebands is not that high the effect of several hundred of them in a passband of 2.7kHz holds the S-meter at S9! While the fix would be to use a directional receiver antenna, such as that used by Laurie or Derek, with QRSS it is not necessary because of the ability of this mode to read signals between the Loran lines. > I would be interested to get your comments or own measurements on this > subject. I do not yet have sufficient experience with Spectran to make full > advantage of this software, so I would like to hear about that software as well. During the month of tests receiving the 20mW erp from I5TGC over an 1800km path (plus Alps) I found Spectran had a slight advantage (even at its Beta stage) mainly because it has a higher frequency resolution. I used the 0.125Hz setting which placed the Loran sidebands (on average) about 15mm apart, which gives plenty of space to see a signal. The best compromise dot period for 0.125Hz apears to be around 5 seconds. At this stage the Speed Control (integration time?) is not slow enough take advantage of the 0.064 and 0.032Hz settings of Spectran. It would be interesting test these narrower settings to find the limit of the soundcard. Geri, I would be most interested in any tests you may make on Spectran - I take it you have a copy. -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10489 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2000 12:03:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Apr 2000 12:03:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gRDg-0003vT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 12:58:36 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from imo23.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.67]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gRDf-0003up-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 12:58:35 +0100 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo23.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id l.39.3c35684 (3945) for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 07:57:48 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: <39.3c35684.2629b33c@aol.com> Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 07:57:48 EDT Subject: Re: LF: Field Strength G3WSC in DL To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 32 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 4/15/00 6:10:06 AM GMT Daylight Time, DK8KW@compuserve.com writes: << G3WSC Beacon Saturday morning ? 34.1 dB microVolt/m at a distance of 697 km >> Hi Geri. Some information which may help: As of last night at 00.50 local I had set up the system as follows. Transmitter. My old MRF linear fitted with class D drive and 4 STW34NB20 FETs 36V supply at 20 Amps. i.e. 720 W DC input. estimated efficiency 85% after the LPF. or 612 W out. (let's say 600) efficiency of mast at 137k (Decca figures) 15% so 90W radiated BUT....... losses in matching coils are suggested to reduce this to 10% or 60W. For a 15% efficient antenna to radiate 60W from a 600W transmitter, then the loss in the loading coils etc. must be 200W. ( since 600 from tx - 200 losses = 400 and 15% of 400 equals 60W radiated) By 00.30 local we had already bypassed the variometer's antenna current circuit to save the electronics, but had watched the fwd / ref network expire in spectacular fashion. After all those estimates. some more real measurements to ~proove~ them. The antenna current overnight was measured at 9A. hence: 9 x 9 = 81 and 81x 5 ohms = 405 Watts (after losses) delivered to the antenna which at 15% efficiency is just about 60W radiated. and yes, the variometer ( A litz wire professional unit) was quite warm. As for radiation pattern / ERP / and the path loss over 697km.. I'll leave that to the you and the group. - I look forward to seeing the data on the website. YXM's TX will take over today. Hope that helps. 73 David G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19036 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2000 12:13:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Apr 2000 12:13:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gRJv-0003xL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 13:05:03 +0100 Received: from smtper.inrete.it ([212.110.32.184] helo=mailer.inrete.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gRJu-0003xG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 13:05:02 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from cel266 ([151.20.78.167]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA08235 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 14:04:41 +0200 Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 14:04:41 +0200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <4.1.20000414210840.00a4f810@mailer.inrete.it> Message-ID: <4.1.20000414210840.00a4f810@mailer.inrete.it> X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Versione 4.1 Data: Fri, 14 Apr 2000 21:14:22 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: Re: LF: Discussion, please, Coast location vs DCF39 In-reply-to: <004d01bfa608$03c27cd0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In 21.28 14/04/00 , Larry wrote: > >>I also noticed DCF39 was off air at about 0100utc last night. It was >>back on again later. > >I was starting to think I had an intermittent in the system at one point. > Larry, have a small signal generator tuneable on 137 kHz at hand. When in doubt, radiate a few microwatts .... in my shack this technique is used often and works well. G3WSC was about +14 dBuV at 1950z on my Marconi. Gain unknown ... expecially after the debate on antenna efficiency and ERP, but I extimated to have approx. -30 dBi. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13067 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2000 12:58:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Apr 2000 12:58:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gS1I-00042M-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 13:49:52 +0100 Received: from [194.73.73.138] (helo=ruthenium.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gS1H-00042H-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 13:49:51 +0100 Received: from [195.99.54.181] (helo=presario1920) by ruthenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12gS3F-0003kU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 13:51:54 +0100 From: "John W Gould" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Discussion of the Peter Bobek award, and TransAtlantic II Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 08:49:46 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-reply-to: <001601bfa628$329d8570$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: As one of the prime movers to get the award in place I felt that I needed to respond to Larry's comments. Firstly, I must make it clear that I totally agree with Larry's approach. I also ought to say that my views here are my own, rather than representing those of the RSGB HF Committee. I also haven't discussed this reply with the other sponsors of the award - the DARC or AMRAD, though I suspect that they would agree with my line. One of the purposes of the award was to remember a modest but determined experimenter and excellent operator who amongst other significant amateur achievements was one of the pioneers on 136kHz. The basic idea came from another determined and successful experimenter who participates in this list. The award was also put in place to act as a driver for those within the hobby who use an award to sustain their interest in meeting a specific goal. Clearly, it will be difficult to meet the terms of the challenge. Larry is right to remind us that before anyone is successful we may need to achieve the 2-way QSO at higher ERP. Maybe the guys in the Azores or Iceland who, for the purposed of the award we decided to exclude, may be able to add a valuable contribution by demonstrating a 1 watt ERP QSO over part of the distance. Both steps will help calibrate what is needed to be done in order to meet the challenge. We have to remember that the challenge is optional. I have some fun doing DXCC on the HF Bands, but I don't do IOTA - that's my choice. My XYL can't understand why I do amateur radio as the Internet or the 'phone is so much easier and can be cheaper - but that's another debate! Through simple things like lists of records and firsts, awards, some amongst us have been encouraged to improve their technical and operating knowledge. Not all - some have drive to do that without the lists, awards, etc. Each to his/her own. Over the last few years aerial and receiving capability has improved significantly. Work on information coding and modulation, developed for other reasons has been successfully applied, e.g. G3PLX, G4JNT and VE2IQ.... to name but a few of the experimenters. It doesn't matter what drives us, but don't let's open up a debate about the rules for the Transatlantic Challenge. I look forward to monitoring the TransAtlantic II activity - I hope that others are inspired to set up other experiments, whether or not an award or certificate follows the achievement. I probably need an award to transmit LF outside the boundary of my garden! 73 John > -----Original Message----- > From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On > Behalf Of Larry Kayser > Sent: Friday, April 14, 2000 10:54 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mike Dennison > Subject: LF: Discussion of the Peter Bobek award, and TransAtlantic II > > > Greetings All. > > Gentlemen: > > I would sincerely appreciate if discussions about the Peter Bobek award in > any terms of the activities of the TransAtlantic II project be avoided now > and until after TransAtlantic II results are known at the end of next > November. > > I am very sure that Peter Bobek was a person of honour, and some > justly feel > that the award was conceived and now promoted as a recognition of a great > achievement in LF. > > The facts are, that the award requirements must and will have > ZERO impact on > how TransAtlantic II will be undertaken from this side of the Atlantic. I > have only read the award requirements in a most cursory manner > and will not > read them again until after we return from VO1 in November. I > have nothing > against or for the award, but I do know my focus - have signals heard both > ways and if possible get a two way QSO across the North Atlantic in > November. > > The simple facts of the matter are, that what we have to do to > get an LF QSO > in the amateur LF band across the North Atlantic the FIRST time > will be many > dB in excess of what will be required to have the 200th or 2000th > QSO across > the North Atlantic on LF. > > We can test the results achieved by TransAtlantic II, and wouldn't it be > wonderful if we could do it with 1W erp, after the test period is > over. If > the award requirements have been met then well and good. If the award > requirements have not been meet this also is well and good. My personal > feelings are that I would really like to have a serious discussion later > this year about the qualification for the award, that would mean that some > signals were heard either way or a completed QSO was achieved > over the North > Atlantic..... > > Summary, the award does not drive the project, the award is a byproduct of > the results of the project. > > Larry > VA3LK > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11901 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2000 12:58:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Apr 2000 12:58:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gS1E-00042F-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 13:49:48 +0100 Received: from [194.73.73.138] (helo=ruthenium.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gS1D-00042A-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 13:49:47 +0100 Received: from [195.99.54.181] (helo=presario1920) by ruthenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12gS3C-0003kU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 13:51:51 +0100 From: "John W Gould" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Re: TransAtlantic II, test notice - announcement Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 08:49:42 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-reply-to: <03b601bfa4ca$aa9f9f40$de46a8c0@unica.co.uk> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I suspect that all who particpated in the original networking of ideas and thoughts to progress and co-ordinate LF experimentation will endorse Peter's comments. Peter was generous enough to host the RSGB LF Group, as the informal networking group was called, on blacksheep.org. We owe him a dept of gratitude. I personally don't derive any pleasure in seeing the level of intolerance on this reflector. Some of the group don't get free download, like myself at the moment, so it's an additional annoyance to have to pay to read the exchanges. If the usage of the list doesn't improve I may be forced to ask for a volunteer to act as moderator, or even ask Peter to close it. That would be a pity. Can we please get back to the hobby and accept that there is wide scope for experimentation, operating, re-learning and some fun! 73 John G3WKL > -----Original Message----- > From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On > Behalf Of Peter Bowyer > Sent: Wednesday, April 12, 2000 06:02 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: Re: TransAtlantic II, test notice - announcement > > > I don't normally post here, but.... > > G3KEV wrote :- > > > Secondary any other mode that one cares to use with their own > antenna and > > commercial antenna farms are totally non amateur radio. > > Why so intolerant? The Decca experimentors are radio amateurs, taking > advantage of the unique availability of some ex-commercial > equipment to push > further the boundaries in this area. Come on, there's room for all here? > Nobody says you have to join in if you don't want to. > > If no radio amateur had ever used any ex-commercial equipment the hobby > would be somewhat poorer, I think. > > > How can anyone claim any > > credit/achievement using a commercial antenna system and data systems > that need > > chip rate detectors controlled by computers > > Personally I take my hat off to the skill and knowledge of the likes of > G4JNT - again, the envelope is being pushed in another fascinating > direction. And again, if *you* don't want to do it, be our guest > and don't. > There's room for all. > > Peter G4MJS > Reflector Keeper - blacksheep.org > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11909 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2000 12:58:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Apr 2000 12:58:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gS1B-000428-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 13:49:45 +0100 Received: from [194.73.73.138] (helo=ruthenium.btinternet.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gS1A-000423-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 13:49:44 +0100 Received: from [195.99.54.181] (helo=presario1920) by ruthenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12gS38-0003kU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 13:51:47 +0100 From: "John W Gould" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Puckeridge tests 14/15 th April - Proposed Schedules Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 08:49:40 -0400 Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook IMO, Build 9.0.2416 (9.0.2910.0) Importance: Normal X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 In-reply-to: <200004131853_MC2-A128-9304@compuserve.com> Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: It's frustrating to be in Boston this weekend with no RX / aerial..... I hope that all involved in the experiments have some fun. I look forward to reading what is learnt. 73 John G3WKL > -----Original Message----- > From: majordom@post.thorcom.com [mailto:majordom@post.thorcom.com]On > Behalf Of DEREK ATTER > Sent: Thursday, April 13, 2000 11:53 > To: INTERNET:rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: LF: Puckeridge tests 14/15 th April - Proposed Schedules > [snip] From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17313 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2000 13:37:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Apr 2000 13:37:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gSfk-00049q-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 14:31:40 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gSfj-00049l-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 14:31:39 +0100 Received: from as21-s15-139-185.cwci.net ([195.44.139.185] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gSfV-0006H9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 13:31:26 +0000 Message-ID: <38F860C8.C2F00C1E@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 12:30:01 +0000 From: "g3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Eastern Ontario tonight References: <000f01bfa675$750acdd0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Larry Kayser wrote: > Greetings: > > Not good news, summer static is quite high, we have thunderstorms south or > south west of us it seems. DCF39 is not strong either. > > Back to prayer for a nice X class flare, quickly...... Hi Larry. CFH suddenly appeared at 1021 utc this morning for about 30 minutes. It was about S2 roughly, no accurate measurements. You never know what is likely to happen out of the blue. We need to be looking out all the time for an opportunity. I am active nearly every day on the 136 khz band and sometimes up pops CFH during daytime and is audible for quite some time then it disappears just as quickly. I expect when this happens there is the possibility for those suitably equipped to make a translantic qso, especially during the winter period when CFH is roaring in here most of the time, day and night. During the test period I will be at my GI location and have been offered another site NW Ireland, this site is literally on the beach at Castlerock, looking directly across to you. The antenna would be a mobile tower on a trailor at about 120 ft high with suitable antennas. Further up the coast at Magilligan and accessible is a cliff face about 500 feet directly above the beach. Antennas suspended from the top and pulled out diagonally down to the beach below would be ideal plus the radial system could be immersed in the sea. This array would be facing towards you. With this sort of effort I would probably need some help and might be able to arrange something. The tower arrangement is alright for a one man job but the cliff adventure is something different. My main qth in N.Ireland is inland about 62 Km S of Castlerock. There is already a 120 ft mast installed with a suitable shack, this might be perfectly suitable without heading to the coast. I could be operational from there within minutes hi. I will try this in the first instance for the tests and if it does not work then I will have to head to the coast. I will be running around 1w erp out and if that fails then I understand a permit would be issued for up to 100w erp. This information I hope will give you some idea of possibilities at this end and allow you to make some calculations. There will be lots of others interested around Europe in these tests and will have something to offer. The strongest signal around Europe currently is MM0ALM/Dave located near Aberdeen/Scotland. LOC-------IO87UA. It might be worth getting in touch with him, he is not on EMAIL but is aware of your proposed transatlantic II and very keen to be involved and is available anytime for tests. Tel 01569 765224 It sounds exciting and I hope it all materialises. Statistics : QTH Cookstown/Tyrone/NI------LOC IO64PO Main Qth Castlerock NW/Coast------ LOC IO65OE Alt Qth Castlerock from Cookstown Az 352 degrees Distance 62 km All calculations computed by GPS and are accurate. 73 de Mal/.G3KEV > > Larry > VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28096 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2000 15:11:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Apr 2000 15:11:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gU7P-0004MX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 16:04:19 +0100 Received: from ds-img-3.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.136] helo=spdmgaac.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gU7O-0004MK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 16:04:18 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id LAA07648 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:03:34 -0400 (EDT) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:03:02 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: LF: Slow CW Sensitivity Measurments To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200004151103_MC2-A157-4CE@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Peter, >Geri, I would be most interested in any tests you may make on >Spectran - I take it you have a copy.< yes, I have the software but need to play around with it to get fully aware about all the functionality it has, and to be able to make utmost use of all the features to be able to have a fair comparison between Spectrogram and Spectran ... I will work on it and let you all know. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1023 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2000 15:20:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Apr 2000 15:20:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gUFj-0004Nc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 16:12:55 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ds-img-5.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.138] helo=spdmgaae.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gUFi-0004NX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 16:12:54 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id LAA06019 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:12:10 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:11:32 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: Re: LF: Field Strength G3WSC in DL To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200004151111_MC2-A157-523@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dave, >9 x 9 = 81 and 81x 5 ohms = 405 Watts (after losses) delivered to the >antenna which at 15% efficiency is just about 60W radiated. > >and yes, the variometer ( A litz wire professional unit) was quite warm. > >As for radiation pattern / ERP / and the path loss over 697km.. I'll leave >that to the you and the group. - I look forward to seeing the data on the >website. thanks for the information on your estimated ERP. With the1 kW CCIR curve for 150 kHz groundwave propagation this lies exactly on the line (or even a little bit above the line) for 5 S/m conductivity (which at lease we here in DL don't have, only 6 to 7 mS/m. So its obviously the skywave part that helped to boos the signal a little bit. Your 13 W ERP of my QSO with G3WSC yesterday also fits into this range. Only the 1 Watt ERP of your last week's preliminary experiments seemed a little bit high. For those of you that have no clue where to find that CCIR curve: I have posted the 150 kHz one as additional information on my webpage, go to "What's New" and follow the link to the information of my field strength measurements of DCF39 that Gamal and myself took, there you will find it. I don't know if the publication of that charts breaks any copyright rule (I did not find any copyright remark in the CCIR document ...), but I think this is a document that should be at least partly in public domain (if anyone feels or has any information that it should not be published, please let me know ...). Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) http://www.qru.de From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29594 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2000 15:25:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Apr 2000 15:25:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gUL1-0004Ow-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 16:18:23 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gUL0-0004Or-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 16:18:22 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [195.44.223.78] (helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gUKn-0001BZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 15:18:09 +0000 Message-ID: <38F87936.37BFB7E7@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 14:14:14 +0000 From: "g3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Field Strength G3WSC References: <39.3c35684.2629b33c@aol.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi David/g0mrf Did detect the TX change. Your tx was reasonably clean last night. When I heard G3YXM this morning the whole band was covered with key clicks. Offer him some advice to rid the tx of the key clicks so we all can work on the band at the same time. This morn I had to squeeze in on the LF side of his signal because it was impossible to work hf because of the clicks. In spite of all that has been stated recently about controlling key clicks and harmonic suppression, no one seems to be doing anything about it, blatant disregard for other band users. If this is to become the norm then I will have no alternative but to take the matter up with the RIS and get their opinion about having the signals monitored. The holder of the high power NOV ought to take some responisbility bearing in mind that this station is only a couple of hundred kilometres away from others trying to operate on an already congested band, especially at weekends. If the G3WSC site was several hundred kilometres or more away from the rest of us there might not be a problem with the high power. At present 1 w erp is more than adequate for the size/efficiency of the tower in use and distances around europe to be covered. What is the point getting a report of S9 plus 20 -60 dbs over when only receiving the other end at S3 on average and below. Total incompatibility between stations. Communications procedures dictate that you use the mimimum power necessary to establish and maintain a radio contract. Imagine the chaos on 136 khz if we all ventured down this road. This qrm key click problem needs to be sorted out before the Transatlantic II project so that all participants get an equal chance and no one transmission wipes the rest out. Surely one ought to be content with the 350 tower and around 1w erp without going over the top with excess power and chewing the band up for those operating from their home qth. Low power slow morse and data operators in these circumstances dont stand much chance. Expect a blurred spiky screen. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3565 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2000 16:01:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Apr 2000 16:01:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gUtp-0004UR-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 16:54:21 +0100 Received: from tomts2.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.140] helo=tomts2-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gUto-0004UM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 16:54:20 +0100 Received: from server1 ([206.172.245.89]) by tomts2-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with SMTP id <20000415155335.VPOM1435.tomts2-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:53:35 -0400 Message-ID: <009601bfa6f2$7a4fa680$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: CFH pops up at 1021 UTC Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:18:30 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Mal wrote: >CFH suddenly appeared at 1021 utc this morning for about 30 minutes. It was >about S2 roughly, no accurate measurements. >You never know what is likely to happen out of the blue. We need to be looking >out all the time for an opportunity. Well isn't it interesting, CFH pops up in Europe very close to the time that an M class flare occurs! I think maybe we should draw two conclusions from this observation. First, get back on your knees and keep asking for a real good X class flare event, quickly, we need it this weekend! Second, we need computers to do the frequency watching for us. I have survived 41 years with the same lady here and I know well enough NOT to head into the shack at 1021 utc and miss morning coffee. Mal, the rest of your comments noted and filed for next fall, Thanks. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16849 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2000 16:04:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Apr 2000 16:04:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gUxn-0004Up-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 16:58:27 +0100 Received: from tomts2.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.140] helo=tomts2-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gUxm-0004UZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 16:58:26 +0100 Received: from server1 ([206.172.245.89]) by tomts2-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with SMTP id <20000415155347.VPOV1435.tomts2-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:53:47 -0400 Message-ID: <009801bfa6f2$81766660$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Discussion, please, Coast location vs DCF39 Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 11:42:43 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Marco: >>>I also noticed DCF39 was off air at about 0100utc last night. It was >>>back on again later. >> >>I was starting to think I had an intermittent in the system at one point. >> > >Larry, have a small signal generator tuneable on 137 kHz at hand. >When in doubt, radiate a few microwatts .... in my shack this technique >is used often and works well. Thank you for your kind help. I have a tiny TTL level signal generator here that I think I will put out at my HF transmitter site as soon as have time to get it working properly hi. Your thought is much appreciated. We did the same thing many years ago when I was looking after OSCAR VI, I kept a 29.39 megaHz one transistor oscillator in a neighbours garage for some years so I could check that the receiver was really working hi Larry VA3LK . From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18638 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2000 17:20:11 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Apr 2000 17:20:11 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gW0j-0004gj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 18:05:33 +0100 Received: from dns2.numerica.it ([212.38.32.34] helo=ns.numerica.it) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gW0h-0004ge-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 18:05:31 +0100 Received: (qmail 9113 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2000 17:05:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO renato) (212.38.43.117) by ns.numerica.it with SMTP; 15 Apr 2000 17:05:28 -0000 Message-ID: <000c01bfa6fc$ce88bb60$752b26d4@renato> From: "Renato" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Info selective voltmeter WG TFH-2 Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 19:04:46 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi!
I have a selective voltmeter Wandel & Goltermann TFH-2.
I tried to listen our  136 khz qso but I was not able to listen (i have a multiturn loop homemade, 1 m. diameter, tuned via a variable capacitor. The signal is amplified by a cascode bi-Fet)
I think my selective voltmeter is too little sensitive (it is able to measure  -40 to + 40 dB).
I think it is possible to modify it!
Have you modified it?
Can you help me?
or must I  put it in in the garbage :-((((  ?
Thanks and best regards
Renato IK2WYS
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22959 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2000 18:07:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Apr 2000 18:07:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gWkt-0004my-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 18:53:15 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ds-img-7.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.153] helo=spdmbaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gWkq-0004mt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 18:53:12 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmbaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id NAA00795 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 13:52:28 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 13:52:02 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Info selective voltmeter WG TFH-2 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200004151352_MC2-A157-C9D@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Renato, >Hi! >I have a selective voltmeter Wandel & Goltermann TFH-2. >I tried to listen our 136 khz qso but I was not able to listen (i have a multiturn loop homemade, 1 m. diameter, tuned via a variable capacitor. The signal >is amplified by a cascode bi-Fet) >I think my selective voltmeter is too little sensitive (it is able to measure -40 to + 40 dB). >I think it is possible to modify it! >Have you modified it? >Can you help me? >or must I put it in in the garbage :-(((( ? >Thanks and best regards >Renato IK2WYS you are right, - 40 dB, is not sensitive enough (if it is -40 dBm, this is equivalent to about 2 mV sensitivity, what you need would be at least about -110 dBm. You might be able to increase the sensitivity with a pre-amplifier. However, don't through it away, those selective voltmeter do an excellent job to measure the near-field of a transmitting station, and for that purpose the sensitivity should be ok! Anyhow, don't through it away, whatever you do ... those old instruments have a lot of components that might be usable for LF applications ... Vy 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 445 invoked from network); 15 Apr 2000 19:07:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 15 Apr 2000 19:07:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gXp9-0004x9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 20:01:43 +0100 Received: from hugo.fen.baynet.de ([194.95.193.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gXp8-0004x4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 20:01:42 +0100 Received: from 194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de (dialin-nbg-124.fen.baynet.de [195.37.215.4]) by hugo.fen.baynet.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id VAA22655 for ; Sat, 15 Apr 2000 21:01:11 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <000301bfa6ed$4043ac20$04d725c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de> From: "Walter Staubach" To: "Reflektor" Subject: LF: Your Signal Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 17:13:22 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Good evening, Derek and crew, heard you this morning at one time with 100uV at the 50ohms of my receiver. Since noon we have strong QRN. Sorry I didn`t notice the exact time. But in this moment (19.54utc) the beacon was 150uV/50ohm. Nothing heard on 73KHz. I hope that QRN disappears tomorrow. 73 Walter DJ2LF --------------------------------------------- Walter.Staubach@fen-net.de From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11316 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2000 07:23:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Apr 2000 07:23:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gjBC-0006Ry-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 08:09:14 +0100 Received: from ds9.sci.fi ([195.74.0.54]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gjBA-0006Rt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 08:09:12 +0100 Received: from default (MMCCCVII.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.43.207]) by ds9.sci.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA17472 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 10:09:02 +0300 (EET DST) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000416100932.008275b0@pop.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: vaiski1@pop.saunalahti.fi (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 10:09:32 +0300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: LF: Special Measurements 2 by OH2LX MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Special Report, G3WSC Puckeridge ¤ 15-16 April 2000 ---------------- 16 April 2000 ---------------------- UTC-/Rx-dBmW/--Indicated Field strength dB(uV/m)----> -----<-G3WSC bcn-->---128.2---128.9---135.8---138.8-- 0425 -128 -> +1 -4 +20 +3 +38 0445 -129 -> +2 -4 +13 +2 +38 0455 -128 -> +1 -3 +17 +2 +38 0500 -128 -> +1 -3 +20 +1 +38 0510 -128 -> 0 -3 +25 +1 +39 0520 -127 -> 0 -3 +29 +4 +40 0530 -127 -> 0 -4 +32 +5 +41 0540 -127 -> 0 -5 +32 +6 +41 0550 -127 -> 0 -5 +33 +7 +40 ----------------------------------------------------- G3WSC beacon closed at 0552 UTC, frequency 137.7 kHz ---------------- 15 April 2000 ---------------------- UTC-/Rx-dBmW/--Indicated Field strength dB(uV/m)----> -----<---G3WSC---->---128.2---128.9---135.8---138.8-- 1945 -116 -> +11 +10 +47 +16 +49 2005 -112 -> +15 +3 +47 -3 +49 ----------------------------------------------------- G3WSC was tuning (?), The Field strength given for it is a rough average, the frequency was 137.1+ kHz. Monitoring continued until 2400 UTC, G3WSC not heard. ----------------------------------------------------- Distance Puckeridge - OH2LX = 1810 km, Azi 249 deg 128.2- = Irish Decca "Green" 2060 km, Azi 267 deg 128.83 = DCF49 Mainflingen 1544 km, Azi 228 deg 135.7+ = SXV Marathon, Greece 2490 km, Azi 182 deg 138.83 = DBF39 Burg 1221 km, Azi 226 deg ----------------------------------------------------- (R&S ESH2/---- 10m coax---/1:10/---15m wire-----): Noise level with antenna: with 200Hz IF BandWidth: -25..-21 dB(uV), -132..-128dBmW (varies w qrm etc) ----------------------------------------------------- End of message of 16 April 2000, 0710 UTC, from OH2LX ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22473 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2000 08:09:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Apr 2000 08:09:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gk0a-0006Zj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 09:02:20 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gk0Z-0006Ze-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 09:02:19 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from as24-s15-145-59.cwci.net ([195.44.145.59] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gk0M-0002u7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 08:02:06 +0000 Message-ID: <38F964FF.1AB8FE12@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 07:00:15 +0000 From: "g3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: CFH Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: CFH was a reasonably good signal this morning at 0320 utc about S7. and the band was very quiet, no qrn. G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24307 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2000 08:34:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Apr 2000 08:34:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gkLb-0006cq-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 09:24:03 +0100 Received: from mail.sci.fi ([195.74.0.41] helo=pyyhe.saunalahti.fi ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gkLa-0006cl-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 09:24:02 +0100 Received: from default (MDCXCVI.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.41.196]) by pyyhe.saunalahti.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA13533 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 11:35:11 +0300 (EET DST) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000416112349.00825a40@pop.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: vaiski1@pop.saunalahti.fi (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 11:23:49 +0300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: LF: Special Measurements 2 by OH2LX MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Due to some editorial errors I'll resend this report as a corrected version. It was thought justified to include measured values also as best estimate for "Indicated Field strength". The use of receiver input level in relative units "dBmW" in earlier reports is based on following: 1. R&S ESH2 is a genuine Measuring receiver with 50 ohm input. I understand it is the quality that costs, its original price was abt 25 kilobucks. 2 calibrated loops (HFH2-Z2) + 1 rod (HFH2-Z1) are available for measurements and calibrations. 2. Due to ITU and EBU requirements we are engaged to use relative unit dB(mW), after some problems with our customers we have adopted "dBmW" instead of normal "dBm". In fact ITU regularly uses "dBW". Is the use of "dBu" based on some agreements? de Vaino, OH2LX ----------------------------------------------------- Special Report, G3WSC Puckeridge ¤ 15-16 April 2000 ---------------- 16 April 2000 ---------------------- UTC-/Rx-dBmW/--Indicated Field strength dB(uV/m)----> -----<-G3WSC bcn-->---128.2---128.9---135.8---138.8-- 0425 -128 -> -1 -4 +20 +3 +38 0445 -129 -> -2 -4 +11 +2 +38 0455 -128 -> -1 -3 +17 +2 +38 0500 -128 -> -1 -3 +20 +1 +38 0510 -128 -> -1 -3 +25 +1 +39 0520 -127 -> -0 -3 +29 +4 +40 0530 -127 -> +0 -4 +32 +5 +41 0540 -127 -> -0 -5 +32 +6 +41 0550 -127 -> -0 -5 +33 +7 +40 ----------------------------------------------------- G3WSC beacon closed at 0552 UTC, frequency 137.7 kHz ---------------- 15 April 2000 ---------------------- UTC-/Rx-dBmW/--Indicated Field strength dB(uV/m)----> -----<---G3WSC---->---128.2---128.9---135.8---138.8-- 1945 -116 -> +11 +10 +47 +16 +49 2005 -112 -> +15 +3 +47 +17 +49 ----------------------------------------------------- G3WSC was tuning (?), The Field strength given for it is a rough average, the frequency was 137.1+ kHz. Monitoring continued until 2400 UTC, G3WSC not heard. ----------------------------------------------------- Distance Puckeridge - OH2LX = 1810 km, Azi 249 deg 128.2- = Irish Decca "Green" 2060 km, Azi 267 deg 128.83 = DCF49 Mainflingen 1544 km, Azi 228 deg 135.7+ = SXV Marathon, Greece 2490 km, Azi 182 deg 138.83 = DBF39 Burg 1221 km, Azi 226 deg ----------------------------------------------------- (R&S ESH2/---- 10m coax---/1:10/---15m wire-----): Noise level with antenna: with 200Hz IF BandWidth: -25..-21 dB(uV), -132..-128dBmW (varies w qrm etc) ----------------------------------------------------- End of message of 16 April 2000, 0825 UTC, from OH2LX ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28714 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2000 09:08:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Apr 2000 09:08:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gkso-0006hZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 09:58:22 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hs-img-3.compuserve.com ([149.174.177.148] helo=sphmgaac.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gksn-0006h0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 09:58:21 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by sphmgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id EAA21119 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 04:57:37 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 04:55:37 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Special Measurements 2 by OH2LX To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200004160455_MC2-A161-A026@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Veino, > 2. Due to ITU and EBU requirements we are engaged > to use relative unit dB(mW), after some problems > with our customers we have adopted "dBmW" instead > of normal "dBm". In fact ITU regularly uses "dBW". > Is the use of "dBu" based on some agreements?< thank you very much for your valuable measurements. I recall we already discussed the misleading unit we see from time to time. The only reason I was using dBu (not dB microVolt but dBu) is that the relatively cheap selective level meters I use (Praecitronic MV6/62 and Siemens D2108) were originally used for level measurements on telephone lines, with 0 dBu = 0.775 Volt at 75 Ohm. In the meantime I have found a way to measure the actual field strength by means of a 1m diameter loop, so I know the relationship between my receiver signal strength and the field strength (0 dBu equivalent to 108 dBuV/m) , so I recently changed the information in my logbook on my homepage into dB microVolt/m. I believe that this, together with the CCIR curve give a better indication about the propagation modes and probably the ERP someone uses -- at least in direct comparison. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) P.S.: hope you catch my signal one of these days, I would love to have a figure on my field strength in OH ... pretty small, as I suppose, with 30 mW ERP P.S.2: Veino, a question to you as the expert: are the CCIR curves valid for ERP or EIRP? The curves state that they were calculated for a power of 1 kW from a "short monopole" antenna. Does this mean, we are comparing our curves to 1kW EIRP? Is the 40 kW radiated power of DC39 that Gamal and I measured (in comparison to the CCIR curves) EIRP or ERP? From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5497 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2000 10:34:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Apr 2000 10:34:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gmII-0006tc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 11:28:46 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ds-img-7.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.153] helo=spdmbaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gmIF-0006tX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 11:28:43 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmbaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id GAA13628 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 06:27:59 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 06:26:45 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: x-band sked 73/136 G3WSC To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200004160626_MC2-A15F-D095@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello YLs and OMs, just had a QSO with G3WSC (op Justin) on 137.250 kHz. We arranged a crossband sked for this afternoon (Sunday, April 16, 2000), 14.00 UTC. G3WSC will transmit on 71.800 kHz, I will reply on 137.250 kHz. Let's see how it works! Vy 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1226 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2000 11:13:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Apr 2000 11:13:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gmrb-0006yv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 12:05:15 +0100 Received: from merlins.plus.net.uk ([195.166.128.23] helo=merlins.force9.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gmrZ-0006yq-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 12:05:13 +0100 Received: (qmail 1954 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2000 11:07:21 -0000 Received: from ruin.servers.plus.net.uk (212.159.2.66) by merlins.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Apr 2000 11:07:21 -0000 Received: (qmail 19566 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2000 11:07:26 -0000 Received: from 185.04-01.quay.dial.plus.net.uk (HELO main) (212.159.67.185) by ruin.servers.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Apr 2000 11:07:26 -0000 Message-ID: <001301bfa794$53420fe0$0600a8c0@main> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: G3WSC crossbands Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 12:10:06 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all. There have been a few calls on the cluster for G3WSC to listen crossband. They will be calling on 137.2 and listening 7012 +/- QRM from 1130utc. Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5181 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2000 15:07:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Apr 2000 15:07:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gqWq-0007Q4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 16:00:04 +0100 Received: from hugo.fen.baynet.de ([194.95.193.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gqWn-0007Pc-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 16:00:01 +0100 Received: from 194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de (dialin-nbg-171.fen.baynet.de [195.37.215.51]) by hugo.fen.baynet.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id QAA05167 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 16:59:13 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <000301bfa714$296f2e80$33d725c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de> From: "Walter Staubach" To: "Reflektor" Subject: LF: 71,8KHz Date: Sat, 15 Apr 2000 21:51:48 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To G3GRO and crew Hrd u 579 on 71,8KHz at 1550utc in JN59NO, strong QRN, QSO with DK8KW on 137. vy gd sig, 73 Walter DJ2LF --------------------------------------------- Walter.Staubach@fen-net.de From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5934 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2000 15:32:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Apr 2000 15:32:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gqvE-0007U3-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 16:25:16 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hs-img-3.compuserve.com ([149.174.177.148] helo=sphmgaac.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gqvD-0007Ty-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 16:25:15 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by sphmgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id LAA00788 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 11:24:31 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 11:24:13 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: 71,8KHz To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200004161124_MC2-A168-B736@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Decca Crew! >To G3GRO and crew >Hrd u 579 on 71,8KHz at 1550utc in JN59NO, strong QRN, QSO with DK8KW on >137. >vy gd sig, 73 Walter DJ2LF Yes, indeed, a very good signal. 569 here in JO52BH, that is 697 km. Checked briefly the fieldstrength calibration with my 1m loop and DCF77 on 77.5 kHz and came roughly to a correlation of 0 dBu = 125 dB micro Volt/m. With your -99 dBu signal, this gives a field strength of roughly 26 dB micro Volt/m. From the CCIR chart for 60 kHz (none available for 71 kHz) my best guess for your ERP would be 16 Watt. You said in our QSO, your antenna current was 9 Amps, so taking the reduced efficientcy of the 325 ft tower for 71.8 kHz into account, that seems to be reasonable. Thanks for the great experience! Vy 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22566 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2000 16:39:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Apr 2000 16:39:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12grpU-0007cK-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 17:23:24 +0100 Received: from tomts3.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.141] helo=tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12grpS-0007cF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 17:23:22 +0100 Received: from server1 ([206.172.245.36]) by tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with SMTP id <20000416162232.LELV24624.tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 12:22:32 -0400 Message-ID: <000c01bfa7bf$8c8ce7e0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Great Experience Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 12:19:25 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) wrote >Thanks for the great experience! That in my opinion is a wonderful thing to say, equally, that is, as I see it, a wonderful message to receive. Congratulations to all, I of course did not hear or see a thing. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26197 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2000 17:34:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Apr 2000 17:34:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gsjy-0007kx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 18:21:46 +0100 Received: from mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk ([194.200.20.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gsjv-0007ks-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 18:21:43 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from as23-s16-144-12.cwci.net ([195.44.144.12] helo=netscapeonline.co.uk) by mailhost.netscapeonline.co.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gsjh-0000FP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 17:21:29 +0000 Message-ID: <38F9E812.57881E6B@netscapeonline.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 16:19:30 +0000 From: "g3kev" Organization: Netscape Online member X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.6 [en-gb]C-CCK-MCD NetscapeOnline.co.uk (Win95; I) X-Accept-Language: en-GB,en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "rsgb" Subject: LF: Transatlantic II Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: During maintenance periods at CFH it might be possible for Larry to use the tx for a short time for amateur radio purposes, the tx is already tuned within the band. It might also be possible for Geri to use DCF39 during a servicing period, with a special licence to work on its frequency outside the band, or maybe the tx frequency could be shifted slightly into the band. Larry and Geri could be the first across. The rest of us would certainly hear them and work xband. Depends on time of day/night but 7 or 14 mhz should be suitable. Some suitably equipped might even be able to have a two way on 137 khz. Anything is possible if you have the right connections !!!!!!!! G3KEV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13636 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2000 18:45:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Apr 2000 18:45:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gtqj-0007ug-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 19:32:49 +0100 Received: from fortune-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.203] helo=fortune.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gtqi-0007ub-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 19:32:48 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from bubbles.excite.com ([199.172.153.29]) by fortune.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20000416183203.BZND9449.fortune.excite.com@bubbles.excite.com> for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 11:32:03 -0700 Message-ID: <14667816.955909923576.JavaMail.imail@bubbles.excite.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 11:32:03 -0700 (PDT) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Signal Reports for G3WSC MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 62.7.130.33 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The following extracts from my log from Friday night to Sunday, include reports of S7 and S8 on 73 kHz: QRA UT Date Rprt KHz Remarks G3WSC/P 16.15 11.4.00 5,9+10,9 136 testing DK9DX 17.50 11.4.00 5,3,9 136 QSO wid WSC DL3FDO 18.00 11.4.00 5,3,9 136 QSO wid WSC -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- G3WSC 18.35 14.4.00 5,9+15,9 136 QSO with M0BMU power 13 watts M0BMU 18.35 14.4.00 5,8,9 136 G3WSC 21.00 14.4.00 5,9+20,9 136.8 -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- G3WSC 08.00 15.4.00 +25dB 137.62 QRA in slow morse G3WSC/P 09.38 15.4.00 +25dB 137.62 100 watts QSO with GW4HXO G3GRO 14.02 15.4.00 5,7,9 71.88 QSO with EI0CF from Puckeridge 8 watts -------------------------------------------------------------------------------- G3WSC 09.45 16.4.00 +25dB 137.22 Calling CQ G3GRO 15.20 16.4.00 5,8,9 71.76 Calling CQ from Puckeridge Hope these are of some interest. 73 John, G4CNN, Reading, IO91ML Rx: AOR 7030. Ant: G3LNP loop oriented East-West. _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5128 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2000 19:36:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Apr 2000 19:36:30 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gugw-00081n-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 20:26:46 +0100 Received: from inf2.inrete.it ([213.185.7.2] helo=mailer.inrete.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gugv-00081i-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 20:26:45 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from cel266 ([151.25.131.62]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA13357 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 21:26:30 +0200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 21:26:30 +0200 Message-ID: <4.1.20000416181737.010d3df0@mailer.inrete.it> X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Versione 4.1 Data: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 20:25:29 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: LF: Spectran, Spectrogram and extreme QRS - a test ? In-reply-to: <2000041511023268199@zetnet.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello all, after the recent messages by Geri and Peter G3LDO about the use of Spectran or Spectrogram for QRS, I did some tests also. I used the following setup: a selective voltmeter with high-impedance input (Wandel& Goltermann SPM-11 with PSE-11 tracking generator) is connected in parallel between my receiver (Racal 1792 with 100 Hz IF filter) and the antenna. The output of the tracking generator is radiated by a short wire via a step attenuator. This morning the noise was about -130 dBm in the 40 Hz bw of the voltmeter. A CW signal to be decodable by (my!) ear from the RX had to be about 8 to 10 dB louder (let assume -120 dBm for 10 dB S+N/N in 40 Hz). Using Spectrogram the signal was easily decodable at -140 dBm using 0.3 Hz bw, so I agree with the 20 dB improvement found by Geri; may be between 20 and15 dB, it depends from the type of noise present and the skill of the operator. Using Spectran I was able to read it at -150 dBm in 0.032 Hz. The setting was: minimum speed, maximum resolution, default contrast (100), horizontal display, 600 Hz BFO frequency. To clearly see a signal needs about 10 dB S/N, if I go down to -157 dBm (approximative 3-5 dB over noise) the presence of the signal is clear but the report will be a "T" or "M". Since we are used to 3 second dots with Spectrogram, it seems appropriate to go to 30 sec with Spectran at maximum resolution. Now, I want to arrange a test, if someone is interested, of course. I'm planning to beacon for some days at low power, sending a message with QRS in DFCW mode on 137.790 / 137.792, at 30 sec/dot, with 20 sec interval. I will reduce RF power to 10 Watt, giving an approximative ERP of 10 mW. With this power setting my 900W TX will run unattended for days (I hope...) I'm very curious to see the results, and to try skeds in this mode. I know that this is not the best way to go, PSK will be another affair, but QRS is cheap, easily set up and used, does not require specialized hardware, and so on; so I think this is worth a try, if you have a stable RX with a stable BFO ! Any suggestion on frequency, times, dot lenght is welcome. For me 137.790 is clear from weak carriers; but QSY is possible. 73 - Marco IK1ODO spin@inrete.it Rivalta, ITALY JN35SA (N 45 01' 25.6", E 7 31' 09.4") From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27540 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2000 20:25:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Apr 2000 20:25:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gvT1-00089s-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 21:16:27 +0100 Received: from rubellite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.4]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gvT0-00089n-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 21:16:26 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 (2410808624.dialin.freeler.nl [143.178.5.48]) by rubellite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id 791792879; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 20:15:25 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <000a01bfa7e0$747e2440$3005b28f@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Cc: "Pieter Bruinsma, PA0PHB" , "Koos Fockens, PA0KDF" , "Koos Fockens, PA0KDF" , "Ger van Went, PA0GER" , "Hans Peltzer" , "Jaap Kroon, PA0IF" Subject: LF: Operation from ex-Decca station at Puckeridge Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 22:13:55 +0200 Organization: Freeler MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
To All from PA0SE
 
I only could monitor transmissions from the ex-Decca station today, Sunday April 16.
 
The result is:
 
Time (UTC) Call  Freq   ERP  Iant S-report  Fieldstrength 
 
1000        G3WSC/P 136kHz  50W   9A    S9 + 20dB        171 µV/m
 
1446        G3GRO/P  73kHz   ?    9A    S9 + 7dB          70 µV/m
 
The distance between Puckeridge and PA0SE is 317km, for the larger part over sea.
The CCIR curves show that for this distance at 136 kHz attenuation over sea water and "land" hardly differs from a path over perfect ground. Assuming perfect ground we can apply the simple rule that 1kW transmitted from a small aerial produces a field strength of 300 mV/m at 1 km distance and this decreases in a linear way with distance. Working backwards from the field strength measured we find at Puckeridge 45W was fed to the aerial on 136kHz and 7.5W on 73kHz.
This is EIRP and not ERP of course.
 
In order to enable the station receiver to be used as FS meter I measured the FS of DCF139 (138.83kHz) and DCF77 (77.5kHz) at two locations in open field, using a home made one turn screened loop of 1 m^2 area and a Wandel & Goltermann SPM-12 selective level meter, fed from the car battery.
 
I could have saved myself the trouble because the values measured at the two locations and the ones in my shack were exactly the same:
 
DCF139: E = 1.93 mV/m
DCF77:  E = 2.85 mV/m
 
It shows that the magnetic component of the field is not noticeable influenced by wiring, central heating system etc. in the house.
 
When using my home made portable FS meter, described on G3YXM's website, I had noticed that moving around outside over a small distance sometimes made considerable difference in FS measured. I attribute this to underground cables, pipelines etc. These extend over a great distance, pick up the signal as a long aerial and re-radiate it, interfering with the primary field. (On LF the field penetrates over tens of metres into the ground). The dimensions of objects inside the house apparantly are too small to show this effect to a measurable extent. (Inside an appartment block with concrete walls it may be different.)
 
When I measured the field of DCF139 and DCF77 I selected locations where no such visible and invisible field-disturbing objects were present.
 
I sincerely thank all those who took part in organising and performing this interesting experiment and in particular Walter Blanchard who was instrumental in making it possible.
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
 
JO22GD
D.W. Rollema
V.d. Marckstraat 5
2352 RA Leiderdorp
The Netherlands
Tel +31 71 589 27 34
or
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9923 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2000 21:57:52 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Apr 2000 21:57:52 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gwwZ-0008L0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 22:51:03 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gwwY-0008Kv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 22:51:02 +0100 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id WAA22504 for ; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 22:50:45 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <2000041621501668199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 21:50:16 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: LF: Re: Operation from Puckeridge Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit >From all accounts, the operation from Puckeridge has been an outstanding success. A great deal of measurement data has been collected and a considerable amount of interest in the LF bands has been generated from many stations not currently involved with these bands. I am sure that the whole story will evolve in the fullness of time but I am sure many of you would like to join me in thanking those operators who put so much time and effort into the whole operation. I worked to Puckeridge station on 72 and 137kHz on Friday and the signal strengths recorded here were S9 on 72kHz S9 plus 25dB on 137kHz Measured on a TS-850s on 500Hz bandwidth with AIP and attenuation awitched out (AIP and some attenuation is normally in to reduce the effects of Loran) On the Selective level meter at 20Hz bandwidth the dBm measurements were -74dBm on 72kHz -65dBm on 137kHz As regards the reported key clicks I was unaware of them at the time of measurement. By this I mean that I was unaware of the presence of the Puckeridge station until I was tuned on to it. In particular I feel that we should give a vote of thanks to Walter, G3JKV, for his liason work Racal/Decca and making the whole operationt possible. -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15039 invoked from network); 16 Apr 2000 22:28:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 16 Apr 2000 22:28:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gxQG-0008Q6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 23:21:44 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12gxQF-0008Q1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 23:21:43 +0100 Received: from [213.1.105.93] (helo=default) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12gxPi-0007bv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 16 Apr 2000 23:21:11 +0100 Message-ID: <000601bfa7f0$fc447e00$5d6901d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots for 15/16th April at GB7DXM Date: Sun, 16 Apr 2000 21:49:24 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, a good effort from the boys at Puckeridge this weekend, I guess they must have just about worked everybody. Pity the beacon wasn't heard on the other side. Thanks to Larry and Jack (and probably others) for listening. 137.2 G3GRO 16-Apr-2000 1541Z on 71.8 kHz 569 qsx 137.25 137.2 G3WSC 16-Apr-2000 1156Z QSX 7011 kHz * ex-DECCA TX ! 137.1 G3WSC 16-Apr-2000 1044Z strong in JO41XN, Crossband 136.7 DF0WD 16-Apr-2000 0916Z 549 136.8 OZ8NJ 16-Apr-2000 0908Z 539 cq 136.9 PA0BWL 16-Apr-2000 0832Z 549 in qso with g3aqc 539 137.7 G3WSC 16-Apr-2000 0039Z Beacon-Mode, ex DECCA-tx ! 136.4 PA0BWL 15-Apr-2000 1102Z 539 cq 136.4 G3KEV 15-Apr-2000 1023Z 549 cq 136.5 G3WSC/P 15-Apr-2000 1010Z 579 137.6 G3WSC 15-Apr-2000 0555Z bake 1watt erp/325 ft vertica 137.7 G3WSC 15-Apr-2000 0234Z VLF-Beacon only?, ex DECCA-T 137.9 G3WSC 14-Apr-2000 2004Z 579 20m-vertical in jn49ws 136.9 G3WSC 14-Apr-2000 1952Z 589 in qso with dk8kw 429 136.8 OZ8NJ 14-Apr-2000 1757Z 439 cq 137.2 G3WSC 14-Apr-2000 1725Z 579 136.9 DL3FDO 10-Apr-2000 1605Z 559 in qso with dk9dx 559 (q 136.8 G3LDO 9-Apr-2000 2018Z Peter vy strong nr Frankfurt 137.5 OE5ODL 9-Apr-2000 1604Z 599 136.8 OK1DTN 9-Apr-2000 1559Z 559 cq G3NYK de GB7DXM 16-Apr 2044Z > 1800.0 G3WSC 16-Apr-2000 1216Z 137.2kHz QSX 7011 - 569 in Jn G3NYK de GB7DXM 16-Apr 2047Z > Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14515 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2000 07:19:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Apr 2000 07:19:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12h5f3-00017X-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 08:09:33 +0100 Received: from hs-img-3.compuserve.com ([149.174.177.148] helo=sphmgaac.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12h5f0-00017S-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 08:09:30 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by sphmgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id DAA28540 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 03:08:46 -0400 (EDT) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 03:08:22 -0400 From: "Holger 'Geri', DK8KW" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Operation from ex-Decca station at Puckeridge To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200004170308_MC2-A173-7362@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Dick, great that you also made your field strength measurements. >we find at Puckeridge 45W was fed to the aerial on 136kHz and 7.5W on 73kHz. The difference between your findings and mine (16 W ERP on 73 kHz, measured at nearly twice the distance using a very basic and rough "rule of thump" measurment) is only about 3 dB. Dick, PA0SE wrote: >This is EIRP and not ERP of course. Well, kind of. What I thought was a silly question seems seems always to have been a point of discussion betwen the experts. Let me quote from an e-mail that Vaino, OH2LX has send me as an answer to my question: >We have not been using the "paper curves" for some time. >Many computer GW programmes have been developed but none of >them seem to serve us the way we all should expect them to do. > >Hardly no one was serious with either ERP or EIRP when the >"Conditions of validity" for the family of curves were being >formulated. There were some 6 or 7 candidates icluding CMF, >EMRP and some others. EIRP is rather "fuzzy" and ERP refers >to a dipole, so the choice was to be called EMRP: > >- The radiating element is a short vertical monopole > (The equivalent dipole moment is 5(lambda)/2(pii)). Assuming > such a vertical antenna to be on the surface of a perfectly > conducting plane earth and excited so as to radiate 1 kW, > the fiels at a distance of 1 km would be 300 mV/m; > this corresponds to a cymomotive force of 300 V. > >Personally I don't know anyone who wants to make practical >field work or reporting in terms of CMF. As you know from >practice, the problems are hiding elsewhere. Usually it is >most useful to discover a lump sigma value for a ground path >with potential adjustments according to seasonal etc conditions. >Without reliable looking long term measurements with supporting >occasional flight measurements there would be no brain twisting, >at least we could not explain all what happens on measurements. Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2613 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2000 07:19:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Apr 2000 07:19:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12h5gQ-000182-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 08:10:58 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.sci.fi ([195.74.0.53] helo=pefletti.saunalahti.fi ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12h5gP-00017x-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 08:10:57 +0100 Received: from default (MKDCIII.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.167.103]) by pefletti.saunalahti.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id KAA25946 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:10:38 +0300 (EET DST) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000417101114.007d35f0@pop.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: oh2lx@pop.saunalahti.fi (Unverified) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:11:14 +0300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: LF: Signal Strength Measurements by OH2LX 17Apr2000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Signal strength measurements of various LF stations : ------------------------------------------------------------------ Day ------------------ 10Apr 11Apr 12Apr 13Apr 14Apr 15Apr 16Apr MON TUE WED THU FRI SAT SUN Time, UTC ------------ 2020- 2130- 2020- 2010- 2040- 2040- 2040- ------------------------------------------------------------------ kHz Ch *d,km AZI* *Indicated ESH2 input, dBmW* ------------------------------------------------------------------ 73.3 Rugby, 1825, 252, Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil ------------------------------------------------------------------ 75.0 HBG, 1992, 226, -98 -97 -101 -99 -99 -98 -104 ------------------------------------------------------------------ 77.5 DCF77, 1543, 228, -85 -82 -85 -85 -85 -85 -85 ------------------------------------------------------------------ 128.2 9f/7D, 2060, 267, -124 -127 -122 -128 -119 -115 -117 ------------------------------------------------------------------ 128.9 DCF49, 1544, 228, -84 -77 -90 -83 -82 -81 -84 ------------------------------------------------------------------ 135.8 SXV, 2490, 182, -108 -104 -106 -106 -109 -106 -119 ------------------------------------------------------------------ 137.0 CFH, 5750, 295, Nil* Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil ------------------------------------------------------------------ 138.8 DBF39, 1221, 226, -75 -75 -91 -76 -78 -78 -90 ------------------------------------------------------------------ * CFH weakly heard ONLY on the 17th after 0005z up to -132 dBmW ------------------------------------------------------------------ 09Apr 2026: OH1TN -108; 2034:-108; 2039:-109 10Apr 2016: OH1BS -113 10Apr 2042: MM0ALM -123; 2049:-124 working ON6ND(<-131?) 12Apr 1938: MM0ALM -122 working G3AQC(<-131?) 15Apr 1816: OH1BS -112; 1851:-112 15Apr 1819: OH1TN -110; 1831:-112; 1903:-119..-117(f); 1910:-107 15Apr 2033: OH1TN -107; 2046:-108; 2104:-108 ------------------------------------------------------------------ (R&S ESH2/---- 10m coax----/1:10/-----15m wire-----): Noise level with antenna: with 200Hz IF BandWidth: -26..-21 dB(uV), -133..-128dBmW (varies with qrm etc) ------------------------------------------------------------------ End of message of 17 April 2000, 0810 UTC, from OH2LX ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4872 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2000 07:41:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Apr 2000 07:41:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12h60x-0001Bm-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 08:32:11 +0100 Received: from finch-post-12.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12h60w-0001Bh-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 08:32:10 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from alg.demon.co.uk ([194.222.171.80]) by finch-post-12.mail.demon.net with esmtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12h60i-000CRq-0C for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 07:31:57 +0000 Message-ID: <38FABC79.BBB20B33@alg.demon.co.uk> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 08:25:45 +0100 From: "Steve Rawlings" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.04 [en] (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Re: Operation from Puckeridge References: <2000041621501668199@zetnet.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Peter Dodd wrote: > > From all accounts, the operation from Puckeridge has been an > outstanding success. . . . I am sure many of you would like to join > me in thanking those operators who put so much time and effort into > the whole operation . . . . In particular I feel that we should give > a vote of thanks to Walter, G3JKV, for his liason work Racal/Decca > and making the whole operation possible. Indeed - a splendid bit of work, made even more worthwhile by those who have taken comparative signal measurements. > As regards the reported key clicks I was unaware of them at the time > of measurement. By this I mean that I was unaware of the presence of > the Puckeridge station until I was tuned on to it. I agree. On the Friday night, I was specifically asked by Lech to check for key clicks from G3WSC on 136 kHz. I heard none, and advised Lech accordingly. I also listened at several other times - including during the QRO tests. At no time did I hear key clicks. But I did hear a very big signal! Regards to all, Steve GW4ALG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28005 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2000 09:55:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Apr 2000 09:55:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12h88Y-0001Yo-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:48:10 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from fm215.facility.pipex.com ([194.131.104.225]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12h88V-0001Yj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:48:08 +0100 Received: from isis (usera847.uk.uudial.com [193.149.69.85]) by fm215.facility.pipex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA24364 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:47:39 +0100 (BST) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000417103022.0098a720@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:47:54 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: Puckeridge Weekend MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Gee, thanks guys - it was nothing! But I really have to congratulate those who did the hard work of hauling kit back and forth in the rain and then putting up with blinding flashes and bangs as they tuned up. And thanks to all those who sent in signal reports, - I think Vaino deserves a special mention. I've collected all the emails and if anyone has anything further to add please send it to me direct. When all the reports are in I'll write it up for "Radcom" and if there's enough interest we may have another go either at Puckeridge or perhaps another site. By the way, I always thought the mark of the true amateur was his ability to make best use of surplus equipment he'd scrounged one way or another. And isn't an old mast just "surplus equipment"? Walter G3JKV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28985 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2000 10:01:40 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Apr 2000 10:01:40 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12h8F9-0001Zy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:54:59 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12h8F8-0001Zt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:54:58 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA364442 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 11:54:40 +0200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000417104634.221ff674@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:46:34 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Slow CW Sensitivity Measurments In-reply-to: <200004150358_MC2-A152-6777@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hallo Geri, Dein Vergleich von 'normal CW' mit QRSS ist sehr interessant. Ich bin im Moment dabei den Teil meiner Webpage über 'extreme narrowband modes' zu schreiben und würde gerne deine Befindungen darin aufnehmen (naturlich mit eine Verweisung nach dir). Hast du dagegen Beschwerden ? 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1944 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2000 10:02:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Apr 2000 10:02:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12h8GC-0001aC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:56:04 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12h8GB-0001a7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:56:03 +0100 Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id LAA314280 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 11:55:50 +0200 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000417115207.232fdda0@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 11:52:07 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: changing opinions MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I copied this from 2 recent messages sent to the reflector by the same OM. Seems that some peoples opinions regarding commercial antennas can change rapidly. 73, Rik ON7YD date : 5 april 2000 subject : Re: LF: Decca Masts >Good luck to those involved, it is an oppertunity in a life time to work from a >COMMERCIAL SITE, in spite of the recent critizism to the contrary about >following the COMMERCIAL approach and using large towers!!!!!!!!!!! date : 12 april 2000 subject : Re: LF: Re: TransAtlantic II, test notice - announcement >How can anyone claim any credit/achievement using a commercial antenna system >and data systems that need chip rate detectors controlled by computers. This is >getting away from what is considered the norm in amateur radio. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6104 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2000 10:20:35 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Apr 2000 10:20:35 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12h8XD-0001gN-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 11:13:39 +0100 Received: from tomts2.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.140] helo=tomts2-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12h8XC-0001gF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 11:13:38 +0100 Received: from server1 ([206.172.245.191]) by tomts2-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with SMTP id <20000417101108.HZHH1435.tomts2-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 06:11:08 -0400 Message-ID: <003201bfa854$d5825170$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Wishing for key clicks Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 06:08:02 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings: Another weekend gone and no key clicks here either. It seems that all I want for Christmas is some key clicks. Make my day, send me some key clocks, one for the start of every dit, another for the end of every dit, one for the start of every dash, and one for the end of every dash. All I want is KEY CLICKS! You can keep the rest if you wish, just sent the key clicks!!!!!!!!!! Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9259 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2000 10:34:27 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Apr 2000 10:34:27 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12h8kx-0001j8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 11:27:51 +0100 Received: from phobos.unica.co.uk ([208.239.240.147] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12h8kw-0001ij-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 11:27:50 +0100 Received: from [195.44.58.78] (helo=test3) by phobos.unica.co.uk with asmtp (Exim 3.13 #2) id 12hEIC-0008Qa-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 12:22:32 -0400 Message-ID: <013201bfa857$5a3ad750$4e3a2cc3@cwipapps.net> From: "Peter Bowyer" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <3.0.1.16.20000417115207.232fdda0@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Subject: LF: Re: changing opinions Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 11:25:40 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I think the second posting was an attempt at sarcasm. Unsurprising that it was lost on an international audience. It's a shame that posters here feel they have to resort to that kind of language to make a point. Peter G4MJS ----- Original Message ----- From: Rik Strobbe To: Sent: 17 April 2000 11:52 Subject: LF: changing opinions > I copied this from 2 recent messages sent to the reflector by the same OM. > Seems that some peoples opinions regarding commercial antennas can change > rapidly. > > 73, Rik ON7YD > > > date : 5 april 2000 > subject : Re: LF: Decca Masts > >Good luck to those involved, it is an oppertunity in a life time to work > from a > >COMMERCIAL SITE, in spite of the recent critizism to the contrary about > >following the COMMERCIAL approach and using large towers!!!!!!!!!!! > > date : 12 april 2000 > subject : Re: LF: Re: TransAtlantic II, test notice - announcement > >How can anyone claim any credit/achievement using a commercial antenna > system > >and data systems that need chip rate detectors controlled by computers. > This is > >getting away from what is considered the norm in amateur radio. > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13141 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2000 10:50:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Apr 2000 10:50:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12h90H-0001mt-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 11:43:41 +0100 Received: from ds-img-5.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.138] helo=spdmgaae.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12h90G-0001mO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 11:43:40 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id GAA10036 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 06:42:56 -0400 (EDT) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 06:42:34 -0400 From: "Holger 'Geri', DK8KW" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: Re: LF: Slow CW Sensitivity Measurments To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200004170642_MC2-A179-2599@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Rik, keinerlei Einwände gegen Übernahme meines Materials! Das erspart es mir, das Material auf meiner Webpage entsprechend darzustellen ;-) Überigens gefällt mir Deine Page außerordentlich gut! Insbesondere die Berechnungen und Darstellungen über Antennenberechnungen und dergleichen ist ausgezeichnet, es hat die Qualität einer Veröffentlichung! Vy 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24779 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2000 11:22:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Apr 2000 11:22:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12h9VG-0001tj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 12:15:42 +0100 Received: from kerberos.telecom.cz ([194.228.2.35] helo=mail.core.telecom.cz) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12h9VF-0001te-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 12:15:41 +0100 Received: from dell1.cz.gmc.net ([194.228.225.18]) by mail.core.telecom.cz (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA13800 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 13:15:23 +0200 Received: from p (p.maly.cz.gmc.net [192.168.1.35]) by dell1.cz.gmc.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id JC54QDCY; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 13:15:34 +0200 Message-ID: <001101bfa85e$4030dec0$2301a8c0@maly.cz.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly" To: "136 group" Subject: LF: End of 73 kHz Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 13:15:34 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello all I heard that N.O.V. for 73 kHz ends this June or July. Is it true? Will it have any continuation? What is the reason? Can anybody provide me with brief info? I need it for article "Long waves" that I write regularly for Czech ham magazin. This weekend I renewed and enhanced antenna and also power increased a little bit. I hope I will be again QRV the following weekend. G3WSC sound available at http://mujweb.cz/www/ok1fig/lfsounds.htm. It was recorded at "city" QTH with the poor ant. 73, Petr, OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21557 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2000 11:25:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Apr 2000 11:25:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12h9ZA-0001uW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 12:19:44 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12h9Z9-0001uR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 12:19:43 +0100 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id MAA06863; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 12:22:22 +0100 (BST) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 8544 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2000 12:16:34 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 17 Apr 2000 12:16:34 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id LAA03632; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 11:06:51 GMT Received: from unknown(146.80.11.40) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma003600; Mon, 17 Apr 00 11:06:21 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 12:21:42 +0100 Received: by FRN-GOLD-1 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id <2J098H3R>; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 12:16:34 +0100 Message-ID: <3617AC3245C2D1118A840000F805359C0175286C@PDW-MERCURY-1> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: Spectran, Spectrogram and extreme QRS - a test ?This mail is UNCLASSIFIED Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 12:16:33 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have not played with Spectran yet, but on the question of dot length...... The optimum dot will depend on the FFT and integration time of the software. Ideally the dot length will be a multiple of the FFT period; three periods will give perfect resolution unless the software uses too excessive an interleave factor, two will be adequate but dots could get masked by impulse noise (an impulse can be several seconds in this mode). What does the 0.03 Hz refer to, is it the FFT bin size or the minimum resolution which is usually two to three bins depending on the window employed. I use either EVMSPEC for the faster rates, or the Dopplergram software for the EVM for slower monitoring, both have rates at binary submultiples of 8000Hz. 30s dots is still fast CW as far as I am concerned ! If your transmitter is REALLY stable, and I mean significantly better than 0.1ppm / 0.01 Hz and with the frequency known to this accuracy, I should be able to do an LF Dopplergram on your signal and see what day / night ionospheric effects are visible. These effects do show up on the DCF 77.5 kHz signal and 137 should show a lot more. Here the sampling rate of the signal will be 8000 / (2^18) = 0.03 Hz and a 256 point FFT allows signal monitoring in a 240uHz bandwidth. It won't take much notice of the 30 second dot period ! Andy G4JNT >Since we are used to 3 second dots with Spectrogram, it seems appropriate >to go to 30 sec with Spectran at maximum resolution. >Now, I want to arrange a test, if someone is interested, of course. I'm >planning to beacon for some days at low power, sending a message with QRS in DFCW >mode on 137.790 / 137.792, at 30 sec/dot, with 20 sec interval. >I will reduce RF power to 10 Watt, giving an approximative ERP of 10 mW. With >this power setting my 900W TX will run unattended for days (I hope...) >, if you have a stable RX with a stable BFO ! -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9132 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2000 12:28:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Apr 2000 12:28:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hAYQ-00027H-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 13:23:02 +0100 Received: from mserv1a.u-net.net ([195.102.240.34]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hAYP-00027C-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 13:23:01 +0100 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1a.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #63) id 12hAYd-0007JP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 13:23:16 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 13:14:51 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 13:14:49 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: End of 73 kHz In-reply-to: <001101bfa85e$4030dec0$2301a8c0@maly.cz.gmc.net> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: OK1FIG wrote: > I heard that N.O.V. for 73 kHz ends this June or July. Is it true? Will it > have any continuation? What is the reason? Can anybody provide me with > brief info? I need it for article "Long waves" that I write regularly for > Czech ham magazin. > Petr, The history is as follows: When an LF allocation was requested, we were told: "do you want 73kHz now, or wait until the pan-European allocation happens?". Of course we (and that includes the cave enthusiasts who started it all off) said: "73 now" ! The band was due to close on 31 December 1999, but the RSGB got it extended by six months to 30 June 2000. There are proposals to continue with a band in this part of the spectrum, but it is not yet known whether this will be possible. Obviously, if distances of nearly 2000km have already been achieved on 73, it would be useful to be able to compare the transatlantic path in due course. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23056 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2000 12:30:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Apr 2000 12:30:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hAZg-00027W-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 13:24:20 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from posti.saunalahti.fi ([195.74.0.45] helo=vihta.saunalahti.fi) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hAZf-00027Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 13:24:19 +0100 Received: from default (DLXXII.tdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.80.72]) by vihta.saunalahti.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id PAA08399 for ; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 15:16:22 +0300 (EET DST) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000417152431.00826450@pop.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: vaiski1@pop.saunalahti.fi (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 15:24:31 +0300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: Re: LF: Radiated powers ... In-reply-to: <200004170308_MC2-A173-7362@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: For those interested on the history of LF/MF coverage planning: (An excerpt from a report of EBU Working Party A, Hamburg, April 1971) DEFINITIONS OF RADIATED TRANSMITTER POWER -- (5 proposals received) -- a) Effective radiated power (ERP) - by ORF (J. Burgstaller) It is proposed to apply the same definition as the one used in the VHF and UHF bands. b) Equivalent monopole radiated power (EMRP) - BBC (Dr Phillips) This definition is based on a short vertical reference aerial, giving horizontally the same radiation as the actual aerial, both being assumed to be located on a perfectly-conducting horizontal plane. The advantage would be that in the present CCIR Report, the curves would correspond to 1 kW EMRP (!!!) c) Equivalent power at a distance of 10 km (EP) - RTE (Mr Curley) For MF propagation it would be reasonable to consider the surrounding countryside up to a radial distance of approximately 10 km as being part of the aerial system. A practical suggestion to define the radiated power may be as follows: the equivalent power required to produce the same field strength at 10 km when applied at the base of a vertical aerial of one quarter wavelength equipped with a perfect earth system and moderate conductivity (3*10E-3 mhos/m) around that aerial up to a distance of 10 km. d) Cymomotive force (CMF) - ORTF The cymomotive force is defined at any point in the space around an aerial, for which the fed-in energy is known, related to the distance of that point from the aerial. The gain of the aerial must be considered when the field strength is calculated at that point. The product of the field strength and the distance is defined as the cymomotive force. e) Operative radiated power (ORP) - ARD/ZDF This term is defined as follows: "The power supplied to the antenna multiplied by the gain of the antenna in a given direction when the reference antenna, placed on the surface of a perfectly conducting plane earth, produces an unattenuated field strength of 300 mV/m at a distance of 1 km at any angle of departure above the plane earth. ---------------------------------------------------------------- Note by Vaino: ERP also was there but it was not supported... At 03:08 17.4.2000 -0400, Geri wrote:---------------------- >Hello Dick, > >great that you also made your field strength measurements. > >>we find at Puckeridge 45W was fed to the aerial on 136kHz and 7.5W on >73kHz. > >The difference between your findings and mine (16 W ERP on 73 kHz, measured >at nearly twice the distance using a very basic and rough "rule of thump" >measurment) is only about 3 dB. > >Dick, PA0SE wrote: > >>This is EIRP and not ERP of course. > >Well, kind of. What I thought was a silly question seems seems always to >have been a point of discussion betwen the experts. Let me quote from an >e-mail that Vaino, OH2LX has send me as an answer to my question: > >>We have not been using the "paper curves" for some time. >>Many computer GW programmes have been developed but none of >>them seem to serve us the way we all should expect them to do. >> >>Hardly no one was serious with either ERP or EIRP when the >>"Conditions of validity" for the family of curves were being >>formulated. There were some 6 or 7 candidates icluding CMF, >>EMRP and some others. EIRP is rather "fuzzy" and ERP refers >>to a dipole, so the choice was to be called EMRP: >> >>- The radiating element is a short vertical monopole >> (The equivalent dipole moment is 5(lambda)/2(pii)). Assuming >> such a vertical antenna to be on the surface of a perfectly >> conducting plane earth and excited so as to radiate 1 kW, >> the fiels at a distance of 1 km would be 300 mV/m; >> this corresponds to a cymomotive force of 300 V. >> >>Personally I don't know anyone who wants to make practical >>field work or reporting in terms of CMF. As you know from >>practice, the problems are hiding elsewhere. Usually it is >>most useful to discover a lump sigma value for a ground path >>with potential adjustments according to seasonal etc conditions. >>Without reliable looking long term measurements with supporting >>occasional flight measurements there would be no brain twisting, >>at least we could not explain all what happens on measurements. > >Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5956 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2000 16:47:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by dimple.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Apr 2000 16:47:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hDqf-0002l0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:54:05 +0100 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.89]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hDqc-0002kv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:54:02 +0100 Received: from pickmere.demon.co.uk ([158.152.117.143]) by anchor-post-31.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12hDqM-0007DK-0V for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 16:53:48 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 12:42:35 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M.J.Powell" Subject: Re: LF: Wishing for key clicks References: <003201bfa854$d5825170$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> In-reply-to: <003201bfa854$d5825170$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In message <003201bfa854$d5825170$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca>, Larry Kayser writes >Greetings: > >Another weekend gone and no key clicks here either. > >It seems that all I want for Christmas is some key clicks. > >Make my day, send me some key clocks, one for the start of every dit, >another for the end of every dit, one for the start of every dash, and one >for the end of every dash. All I want is KEY CLICKS! You can keep the rest >if you wish, just sent the key clicks!!!!!!!!!! > >Larry >VA3LK Now there's an idea! If just the clicks were sent the peak power could be enormous while still remaining at 1w ERP average! Mike -- M.J.Powell From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8527 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2000 17:21:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Apr 2000 17:21:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hF0c-00030N-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:08:26 +0100 Received: from neodymium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.83]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hF0Y-00030I-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:08:23 +0100 Received: from [213.1.154.80] (helo=default) by neodymium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12hEzW-0007Md-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:07:19 +0100 Message-ID: <000701bfa88e$584c96e0$509a01d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "LF-Group" Subject: LF: additional Clutser spots from DB0MBX via Wolf Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 10:28:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, thanks to Wolf, DL1SAN for his forwarding of stations spotted in southern Germany. There do seem to be new calls cropping up amongst the entries....possibly calls to look out for on the band in the future. It also seems that there are periods where UK stations are spotted and the entry does not propagate back to local node. 137.2 DF0WD 16-Apr-2000 1732Z 559 in qso with dj2lf 569 137.2 G3WSC 16-Apr-2000 1144Z qsx 7011 137.2 DK8KW 16-Apr-2000 1007Z in qso with g3: sorry Geri n 137.2 G3SWC 16-Apr-2000 0959Z cq.. 579 in jn35 136.9 HB2ASB 16-Apr-2000 0757Z calling pa0bwl 136.3 HB2ASB 16-Apr-2000 0713Z cq cq 137.7 G3WSC 16-Apr-2000 0039Z Beacon-Mode, ex DECCA-tx ! 136.4 G3WSC 15-Apr-2000 1323Z hrd into jo40ln 529 136.4 G3WSC 15-Apr-2000 1319Z strong, any Crossband-Activi 137.7 G3WSC 15-Apr-2000 0617Z 325ft decca ant cpy in na? 137.7 G3WSC 15-Apr-2000 0204Z VLF-Beacon, ex DECCA TX 137.0 G3WSC 14-Apr-2000 2015Z nw 599 with ik5zpv 137.2 G3WSC 14-Apr-2000 1823Z io94 559 in jo50 136.9 DL3FDO 10-Apr-2000 1605Z 559 in qso with dk9dx 559 (q 73 de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21138 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2000 18:25:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Apr 2000 18:25:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hG5m-0003Co-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 19:17:50 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ds-img-7.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.153] helo=spdmbaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hG5i-0003Cg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 19:17:46 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmbaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id OAA01829 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:17:01 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 14:16:46 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Wishing for key clicks To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200004171416_MC2-A18B-BF09@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >Another weekend gone and no key clicks here either. > >It seems that all I want for Christmas is some key clicks. > >Make my day, send me some key clocks, one for the start of every dit, >another for the end of every dit, one for the start of every dash, and one >for the end of every dash. All I want is KEY CLICKS! You can keep the rest >if you wish, just sent the key clicks!!!!!!!!!! > >Larry >VA3LK Larry, don't worry, the day will come, when we LF hams will say "It was, indeed, a fine day"! For those of you not that familiar with ham-radio history: those were the words of Kenneth B. Warner, 9JT, secretary of the ARRL, after the first successful 2-way transatlantic QSO between 1XAM and 8AB in November 25, 1923 on 100m wavelength was conducted. Best 73 and good success! As I said earlier, I volunteer on the Irish side to hold the kite! Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14400 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2000 20:29:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Apr 2000 20:29:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hI1E-0003WW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:21:16 +0100 Received: from merlins.plus.net.uk ([195.166.128.23] helo=merlins.force9.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hI1B-0003WR-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:21:13 +0100 Received: (qmail 22133 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2000 20:23:26 -0000 Received: from ruin.servers.plus.net.uk (212.159.2.66) by merlins.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Apr 2000 20:23:26 -0000 Received: (qmail 7093 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2000 20:23:33 -0000 Received: from 190.04-03.quay.dial.plus.net.uk (HELO main) (212.159.75.190) by ruin.servers.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Apr 2000 20:23:33 -0000 Message-ID: <01b801bfa8ab$2865d6e0$0600a8c0@main> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Another commercial mast? Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 21:25:20 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear all. Does anyone feel like activating an LF mast on Shetland, the week after Easter? I can't do it, no cash to get there! Contact me for details. dave@picks.f9.co.uk 73. Dave G3YXM. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9158 invoked from network); 17 Apr 2000 22:50:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 17 Apr 2000 22:50:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hKGM-0003pC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 23:45:02 +0100 Received: from ds-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.134] helo=spdmgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hKGJ-0003p2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 23:44:59 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id SAA23521 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:44:15 -0400 (EDT) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Date: Mon, 17 Apr 2000 18:43:02 -0400 From: "Prof R. Jennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Subject: LF: Re: Operation from Puckeridge To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200004171843_MC2-A18B-D68A@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I concur most heartily with Peter Dodd. It was a wonderful experience to have a short QSO on 73 with Derek, G3GRO, who was booming in at a full S9. My congratulations to all concerned! Roger, G2AJV. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6542 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2000 07:29:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Apr 2000 07:29:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hSHh-0004ud-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 08:18:57 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hSHd-0004uY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 08:18:54 +0100 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id IAA11590; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 08:21:32 +0100 (BST) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 25687 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2000 08:15:41 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 18 Apr 2000 08:15:41 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id HAA07571; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 07:05:54 GMT Received: from unknown(146.80.11.40) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma007554; Tue, 18 Apr 00 07:05:28 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 08:22:02 +0100 Received: by FRN-GOLD-1 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id <2J098MZ9>; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 08:16:52 +0100 Message-ID: <3617AC3245C2D1118A840000F805359C01752875@PDW-MERCURY-1> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Wishing for key clicks Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 08:16:50 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Don't joke ! I have seen a genuine proposal / request for licence (and it was not an April fool) for a spread spectrum radio system that transmits data as very fast short pulses over a wide band to reduce interference Think it was mentioned in QST last month. Andy G4JNT > >Make my day, send me some key clocks, one for the start of every dit, > >another for the end of every dit, one for the start of every dash, > and one > >for the end of every dash. All I want is KEY CLICKS! You can keep > the rest > >if you wish, just sent the key clicks!!!!!!!!!! > > > >Larry > >VA3LK > > Now there's an idea! If just the clicks were sent the peak power could > be enormous while still remaining at 1w ERP average! > > Mike > -- > M.J.Powell > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7550 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2000 07:45:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Apr 2000 07:45:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hSXV-0004x6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 08:35:17 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hSXU-0004x1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 08:35:16 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA199524 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 09:35:02 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000418093116.2e7f3332@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 09:31:16 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Wishing for key clicks In-reply-to: References: <003201bfa854$d5825170$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> <003201bfa854$d5825170$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >Now there's an idea! If just the clicks were sent the peak power could >be enormous while still remaining at 1w ERP average! > >Mike Hello Mike, You would have an enormous peak power, but unfortunately also an enormous bandwidth. So after all the signal-to-noise ratio would not improve. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15669 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2000 08:35:44 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Apr 2000 08:35:44 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hTJe-00056X-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 09:25:02 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from posti.saunalahti.fi ([195.74.0.45] helo=vihta.saunalahti.fi) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hTJa-00056Q-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 09:24:58 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from default (MMMDCCCXXXV.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.164.235]) by vihta.saunalahti.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id LAA12628 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:17:09 +0300 (EET DST) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000418112529.0082b100@pop.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: vaiski1@pop.saunalahti.fi (Unverified) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:25:29 +0300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: LF: Decca Measurements by OH2LX 18 Apr 2000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Was up early on the 18 Apr 2000, 0200 UTC- and measured all frequencies of still existing Irish Decca chain (7D): stn f,kHz Rx-in Est Fs dist azi dBmW dBuV/m Master (6f) 85.450 -112 +15 2193 km 263.5 deg Red (8f) 113.933 -112 +15 2338 km 262.5 deg Green (9f) 128.175 -114 +13 2060 km 267.1 deg Purple (5f) 71.208 -112 +15 2213 km 259.1 deg Orange (8.2f) 116.782 **** ---------------------------------------------------------- **** 4 pulses on 116.8: -112; -111; -109; -115 dBmW ---------------------------------------------------------- Mars-75 navigation system pulses on: (anyone else heard?) ... 70.481, 71.691, 72.910, 74.124 kHz etc ... (23 freqs) ---------------------------------------------------------- (R&S ESH2/---- 10m coax----/1:10/-----15m wire-----): Noise level with antenna: with 200Hz IF BandWidth: -26..-21 dB(uV), -133..-128dBmW (varies with qrm etc) ---------------------------------------------------------- End of message of 19 April 2000, 0830 UTC, from OH2LX ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 805 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2000 10:12:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Apr 2000 10:12:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hUrN-0005oH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:03:57 +0100 Received: from lepidachrosite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.3]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hUrJ-0005oC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:03:53 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust60.tnt11.rtm1.nl.uu.net [212.136.251.60]) by lepidachrosite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id E1741CAF92; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 10:02:45 +0000 (GMT) Message-ID: <004001bfa91d$38bfc1a0$3cfb88d4@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: "LF-Group" Cc: "Jaap Kroon, PA0IF" , "Pieter Bruinsma, PA0PHB" , "Koos Fockens, PA0KDF" , "Hans Peltzer" , "Ger van Went, PA0GER" Subject: LF: Fw: Operation from ex-Decca station at Puckeridge 2 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 11:56:05 +0200 Organization: Freeler MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
To All from PA0SE
 
This is an addition to my report of Sunday April 16, 22.13, here repeated.
 
The shape of a vertical aerial has a lot of influence on the reactive part of the impedance at the feedpoint but the real ("Ohmic") part only depends on the height of the aerial and hardly on its shape. This makes it possible to find the radiation resistance of the ex-Decca mast at Puckeridge by computer modelling, only using its height of 325 feet.
 
We find Rrad = 0.641 Ohms on 137 kHz and Rrad = 0.175 Ohms on 72 kHz.
 
The aerial current was given as 9A.
 
This results in a radiated power of:
 
Prad = 9 * 9 * 0.641 = 52W on 137 kHz
 
Prad = 9 * 9 * 0.175 = 14.2W on 72 kHz
 
This is within a few dB of the values found from field strength measurement by Geri, DK8KW and myself, assuming a radio path over perfect ground.
 
In the modelling no top loading was assumed. >From the description of the mast it seems some form of top loading is actually present: wires extending from the top of the mast down to the surface. When these are connected to the top of the mast that seems to be quite wrong as the current flowing via the wires is in opposite direction to the current in the mast, counteracting the field radiated by the mast.
But the boys at RACAL-DECCA certainly must have known what they were doing. It would be interesting if we could obtain some more info on this matter.    
 
The discrepancy between radiated power found by calculation and from field strength measurement is much smaller than in the case of amateur installations, as reported by SM6PXJ, DK8KW, M0BMU, PA0SE ans possibly others.
The same is the case for the measurements by Gamal and Geri of the field of DCF139.
This confirms the earlier expressed opinion that in amateur stations quite a bit of power is lost by radiation into the ground and absorption in surrounding objects.    
In commercial installations the situation - extensive earth mat, unobstructed view - is much more like the ideal one used for the CCIR curves: power radiated from a short vertical aerial over perfect ground.
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
 
----- Oorspronkelijk bericht -----
Aan: LF-Group
Verzonden: zondag 16 april 2000 22:13
Onderwerp: Operation from ex-Decca station at Puckeridge

To All from PA0SE
 
I only could monitor transmissions from the ex-Decca station today, Sunday April 16.
 
The result is:
 
Time (UTC) Call  Freq   ERP  Iant S-report  Fieldstrength 
 
1000        G3WSC/P 136kHz  50W   9A    S9 + 20dB        171 µV/m
 
1446        G3GRO/P  73kHz   ?    9A    S9 + 7dB          70 µV/m
 
The distance between Puckeridge and PA0SE is 317km, for the larger part over sea.
The CCIR curves show that for this distance at 136 kHz attenuation over sea water and "land" hardly differs from a path over perfect ground. Assuming perfect ground we can apply the simple rule that 1kW transmitted from a small aerial produces a field strength of 300 mV/m at 1 km distance and this decreases in a linear way with distance. Working backwards from the field strength measured we find at Puckeridge 45W was fed to the aerial on 136kHz and 7.5W on 73kHz.
This is EIRP and not ERP of course.
 
In order to enable the station receiver to be used as FS meter I measured the FS of DCF139 (138.83kHz) and DCF77 (77.5kHz) at two locations in open field, using a home made one turn screened loop of 1 m^2 area and a Wandel & Goltermann SPM-12 selective level meter, fed from the car battery.
 
I could have saved myself the trouble because the values measured at the two locations and the ones in my shack were exactly the same:
 
DCF139: E = 1.93 mV/m
DCF77:  E = 2.85 mV/m
 
It shows that the magnetic component of the field is not noticeable influenced by wiring, central heating system etc. in the house.
 
When using my home made portable FS meter, described on G3YXM's website, I had noticed that moving around outside over a small distance sometimes made considerable difference in FS measured. I attribute this to underground cables, pipelines etc. These extend over a great distance, pick up the signal as a long aerial and re-radiate it, interfering with the primary field. (On LF the field penetrates over tens of metres into the ground). The dimensions of objects inside the house apparantly are too small to show this effect to a measurable extent. (Inside an appartment block with concrete walls it may be different.)
 
When I measured the field of DCF139 and DCF77 I selected locations where no such visible and invisible field-disturbing objects were present.
 
I sincerely thank all those who took part in organising and performing this interesting experiment and in particular Walter Blanchard who was instrumental in making it possible.
 
73, Dick, PA0SE
 
JO22GD
D.W. Rollema
V.d. Marckstraat 5
2352 RA Leiderdorp
The Netherlands
Tel +31 71 589 27 34
or
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15261 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2000 14:22:30 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Apr 2000 14:22:30 -0000 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hYnS-0007nT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 15:16:10 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net ([194.217.242.91]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hYnL-0007nK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 15:16:03 +0100 Received: from pickmere.demon.co.uk ([158.152.117.143]) by anchor-post-33.mail.demon.net with smtp (Exim 2.12 #1) id 12hYmx-000PMp-0X for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 15:15:40 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 12:26:47 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M.J.Powell" Subject: Re: LF: Wishing for key clicks References: <003201bfa854$d5825170$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> <003201bfa854$d5825170$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> <3.0.1.16.20000418093116.2e7f3332@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> In-reply-to: <3.0.1.16.20000418093116.2e7f3332@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Turnpike Integrated Version 4.02 S Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In message <3.0.1.16.20000418093116.2e7f3332@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be>, Rik Strobbe writes >>Now there's an idea! If just the clicks were sent the peak power could >>be enormous while still remaining at 1w ERP average! >> >>Mike > >Hello Mike, > >You would have an enormous peak power, but unfortunately also an enormous >bandwidth. So after all the signal-to-noise ratio would not improve. What a pity. Another good idea down the drain! Mike -- M.J.Powell From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8104 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2000 16:09:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Apr 2000 16:09:20 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12haS4-00005Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 17:02:12 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12haRz-00005S-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 17:02:07 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id SAA76590 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 18:01:47 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000418175758.1def011a@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 17:57:58 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: extreme narrowband modes (QRSS/DFCW) In-reply-to: <01b801bfa8ab$2865d6e0$0600a8c0@main> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I just uploaded the 'extreme narrowband modes' page on my website : http://www.qsl.net/on7yd/136narro.htm I tried to find a compromise between keeping things understandable (minimal math) and being complete (and correct). Comments welcome. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6020 invoked from network); 18 Apr 2000 20:44:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 18 Apr 2000 20:44:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hejT-00025w-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:36:27 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from smtper.inrete.it ([212.110.32.184] helo=mailer.inrete.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hejS-00025r-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:36:26 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from cel266 ([151.25.254.241]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA05200 for ; Tue, 18 Apr 2000 22:36:07 +0200 Date: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 22:36:07 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <4.1.20000418212732.011d5200@mailer.inrete.it> X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Versione 4.1 Data: Tue, 18 Apr 2000 21:35:14 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: LF: QRSS test running In-reply-to: <4.1.20000416181737.010d3df0@mailer.inrete.it> Riferimenti: <2000041511023268199@zetnet.co.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello all, If you want to try Spectran or Spectrogram at high resolution, I have a beacon running. Frequency is 137.790/792 in DFCW, 40 sec dot lenght, 10 sec spacing. Message is my call plus a letter. Message lasts about 20 minutes. Power is approx. 30W RF, 30 mW ERP. The shift is 'only' 2 Hz, an oceanic shift considering the resolution of Spectran. Please try with Spectrogram at maximum resolution, or Spectran at 0.032 Hz, minimum speed. Be careful of the RX tuning ! Reports are welcome ... I will let it run at least until tomorrow at 12z, then again on Thursday. 73 - Marco IK1ODO - JN35SA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 16730 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2000 00:33:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Apr 2000 00:33:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hiKW-0003yy-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:26:56 +0100 Received: from [194.73.73.176] (helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hiKV-0003yt-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:26:55 +0100 Received: from [62.7.56.43] (helo=default) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12hiK6-0007Do-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:26:31 +0100 Message-ID: <000301bfa994$ca246520$2b38073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: IK1ODO QRS QRP Beacon Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 01:17:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Marco, confirming my earlier message to you. The signal I copied on Spectrogram with slow speed and high averaging at a definite T and a struggling M, is a clean O on Spectran (Beta2c) at 0.03Hz resolution and the slowest speed. The elements are a good white and there is just a hint of blurr between successive elements, which are 7mm long on my waterfall (vertical) display. This is despite your dot frequency falling on a pair of weak Loran-C lines (I think) ....Not bad for 30mW erp. There are between 30 and 50 crashes per sec of distant lightning. Your frequency was within 0.1Hz of my synthasised reference (Farnell DSG1) which was within 0.2Hz when last checked against Droitwich. My aerial is a 1.2m 16 turn loop with a preamp/matcher (at bench level indoors!!) and the receiver is an AOR 7030+ using the SSB filter (2.5kHz bw) on LSB with carrier set at 138.10, and the AGC off. It might be a little better if I set a higher audio note. We will have to club together and bail Alberto out from his 'Salt-mine' to finish the release version! It is spectacularly better than Spectrogram (even using averaging of 40 and a time-scale of 5000msecs.....5k sampling rate and 16k points) on that speed signal. Unfortunately I do not have a screen capture utility to use with it, so I cannot send you the 'proof'. I have the Spectrogram screen shot. 73 de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18473 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2000 08:43:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Apr 2000 08:43:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hpu7-0007UA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:32:11 +0100 Received: from mserv1c.u-net.net ([195.102.240.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hpu4-0007U5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:32:08 +0100 Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1c.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #35) id 12hpsk-0007DM-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:30:47 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:30:22 +0100 From: "Mike Dennison" X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 09:30:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: Re: LF: IK1ODO QRS QRP Beacon In-reply-to: <000301bfa994$ca246520$2b38073e@default> X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: G3NYK wrote: > Unfortunately I do not have a > screen capture utility to use with it, so I cannot send you the 'proof'. I > have the Spectrogram screen shot. > Assuming you are running a PC, a really easy way of getting a screen capture is to press ALT and Print Screen at the same time. This puts a bit map onto the 'clipboard'. It can then be Pasted into just about anything, preferably a photo edting program but it works in Word. Beware the file is quite big and can take a while to print, but it does work. Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27289 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2000 09:39:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Apr 2000 09:39:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hqn6-0007td-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 10:29:00 +0100 Received: from praseodumium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hqn3-0007tY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 10:28:57 +0100 Received: from [62.6.90.4] (helo=default) by praseodumium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12hqlh-0004qG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 10:27:34 +0100 Message-ID: <000501bfa9e0$88072000$045a063e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: IK1ODO QRS QRP test....more Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 10:19:53 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Marco, just after sending the last message at about 0045z I altered the parameters a little on Spectrogram, averaging down to 25, and dropped a 500Hz IF filter over your signal, because CFH was becomming quite strong. I then copied at full 'O' "ODO V IK1 " at which I went off to bed! I left the set-up running, and there was an hour of record on the screen when I awoke at 0700z (0600z to 0708z). There was no sign of your signal on the screen at that time so the path is probably 'skywave' to me. Unfortunately I have no way of recording through the night on spectrogram. I will listen again this evening. Cheers de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27943 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2000 12:16:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Apr 2000 12:16:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12htHr-0000eV-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 13:08:55 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from smtper.inrete.it ([212.110.32.184] helo=mailer.inrete.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12htHp-0000eO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 13:08:53 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from cel266 ([151.20.84.9]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id OAA27859 for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:08:35 +0200 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:08:35 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <4.1.20000419130600.015d0de0@mailer.inrete.it> X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Versione 4.1 Data: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 13:08:55 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: Re: LF: IK1ODO QRS QRP test....more In-reply-to: <000501bfa9e0$88072000$045a063e@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In 14.03 19/04/00 , hai scritto: >Hi Marco, just after sending the last message at about 0045z I altered the >parameters a little on Spectrogram, averaging down to 25, and dropped a >500Hz IF filter over your signal, because CFH was becomming quite strong. I >then copied at full 'O' "ODO V IK1 " at which I went off to bed! I left >the set-up running, and there was an hour of record on the screen when I >awoke at 0700z (0600z to 0708z). There was no sign of your signal on the >screen at that time so the path is probably 'skywave' to me. Unfortunately I >have no way of recording through the night on spectrogram. I will listen >again this evening. > >Cheers de Alan G3NYK JO02PB >Alan.Melia@btinternet.com > > > Ok, fine. Today I will leave the carrier on at low power (about 20W) for a test with Andy G4JNT. Tomorrow I will test again with lower power in QRSS. I hope my Italian neighboroughs will tolerate a couple of key cliks per minute .. ;-) Marco Bruno - IK1ODO spin@inrete.it SPIN Electronics - www.spin-it.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26881 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2000 13:27:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Apr 2000 13:27:04 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12huPE-0001Fa-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:20:36 +0100 Received: from mserv1c.u-net.net ([195.102.240.33]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12huPA-0001FV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:20:32 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from rsgb.u-net.com ([195.102.80.225] helo=rsgb.org.uk) by mserv1c.u-net.net with esmtp (Exim 2.10 #35) id 12huNo-0002xK-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:19:10 +0100 Received: from miked by rsgb.org.uk with SMTP (MDaemon.v2.8.7.0.R) for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:05:23 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Mike Dennison" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:05:21 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: GW3XDV/P X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) X-MDaemon-Deliver-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Return-Path: miked@mail.rsgbhq Message-ID: Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I will be in the far south-west of Wales from Saturday the 23rd. I will be able to listen on LF for the first few days but cannot transmit until I hire a portable generator on Wednesday 26 April. It is impossible to operate from inside my holiday home because of local power lines. I will operate until Saturday morning 29 April. Operating times depend on the weather - it's all outdoors - and how much wind there is for the kite. If the weather is right, I expect to operate on Wednesday afternoon/evening and Saturday early morning, with other times possible. Most activity will be on the 73kHz band. Preferred frequency 71.8kHz. If Rugby is back on, I will use 71.7. I expect to run a 200W tx and a 60m kite. This will include some QRSs transmitting on 73, listening for normal CW on 136kHz. For skeds, reports etc, Peter G3LDO, has offered to be the contact point and I will keep in touch with him by phone. Unfortunately my mobile phone does not work in the holiday home. I expect to brief Peter a short time before each activity period so he can alert anyone wanting skeds, and put out a message here. This may be the only opportunity ever to work GW on the 73kHz band. I can be contacted at home by e-mail until tomorrow evening (20th). Mike, G3XDV (IO91VT) http://www.dennison.demon.co.uk/activity.htm From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15592 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2000 14:19:58 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Apr 2000 14:19:58 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hvED-0001g9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:13:17 +0100 Received: from [194.73.73.176] (helo=protactinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hvEC-0001g3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:13:16 +0100 Received: from [213.1.137.215] (helo=default) by protactinium with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12hvDm-0007nd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 15:12:50 +0100 Message-ID: <000901bfaa08$44c9cf40$d78901d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: re screen dumps...tnx all Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 10:33:18 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi thanks for all the helpful notes on screen dumps......I'm really a DOS hacker at heart and haven't really got to grips with a lot of the dark recesses of Windows. I still only use Win for launching one program at a time (Still I gather it doesn't crash so often that way.......I even remember the days before MS-DOS when operating systems didn't crash.....Mr Gates has a lot to answer for! Thanks de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10860 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2000 18:21:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Apr 2000 18:21:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hywQ-0003W7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:11:10 +0100 Received: from imo17.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.7]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hywO-0003W1-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:11:08 +0100 X-Priority: 3 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo17.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id l.3f.39b2b67 (4330) for ; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:10:22 -0400 (EDT) X-MSMail-Priority: Normal From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <3f.39b2b67.262f508d@aol.com> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:10:21 EDT Subject: Re: LF: re screen dumps...tnx all To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 102 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 4/19/00 10:17:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time, Alan.Melia@btinternet.com writes: << I even remember the days before MS-DOS when operating systems didn't crash..... >> Golly, Alan. Your memory must go back a lot farther than mine. I can't remember ANY operating system that NEVER crashed... :-) 73, John KD4IDY From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 9248 invoked from network); 19 Apr 2000 18:55:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 19 Apr 2000 18:55:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hzTM-0003nP-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:45:12 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ds-img-2.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.135] helo=spdmgaab.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12hzTK-0003nI-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 19:45:11 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id OAA09628 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:44:25 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 14:43:25 -0400 From: "DEREK ATTER" Subject: LF: Puckeridge expedition - Interim Report To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200004191443_MC2-A1D6-82A2@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Re: The LF operation from the Decca station at Puckeridge 11th April and 14/15/16 April - Having just about recovered from the weekend's activity and travelling up to Puckeridge again yesterday (Tuesday18th) to recover the remaining bits of gear including tables and chairs etc and the loading coil and variometer used by all of the operating groups involved, I thought that I would post an initial report of the activity pending a more detailed study of the logs and incoming reports. Firstly, thanks to all those who participated and to all those sent in signal reports and messages of encouragement. The exercise was arranged at very short notice and word spead around the LF operators living within reasonable reach of the site to invite one or two groups of operators to take part. Apart from the Decca mast and an RF thermo-couple ammeter , none of the original equipment such as loading coils etc was used. For 136Khz operation a relatively small variometer ( about 500uH max) and a tapped toroidal auto transformer were connected to ground from the copper pipe lead-in to the base of the mast which is supported on 4 massive ceramic insulators. The exploratory visit earlier in the week (11th April) allowed a purpose-built additional loading coil for 73Khz to be built by Lech G3KAU back at base in time for the main excercise at the weekend. Three transmitters were employed at various times, the G3GRO 300W much modified BKE linear amplifier used for the 1W ERP tests on 73/136Khz earlier in the week and on Friday and Saturday for running between 1 and 5W ERP plus the well tried G0MRF 500W set-up and the G3YXM 1Kw class-D rig used previously on many /P expeditions. During the overnight sessions on Friday in beacon mode the ERP was 50W and 100W ERP overnight Saturday. We had a few problems to start with in getting the variometer to handle the 500W RF and we had a few splatts and sparks resulting in VSWR trips until we realised that the capacitive voltage divider in the forward/reflected power meter in the variometer was tracking over and by-passed it. Fortunately we had another SWR meter in line. We also found that an RF sampler unit brought along by Jim M0BMU very useful in setting up the matching and tuning in conjunction with an oscilloscope very useful. We realised on Saturday that the range of our RF ammeter was too small for the high power operation and rescued the original very large 30A RF ammeter from the pile of redundant scrap units outside in the rain and pressed it into service. During the beacon sessions that was reading 14A into the base of the mast which looks like 5ohms resistive in series with 3750pf ! That represents an RF power of 1Kw into the antenna or 100W ERP allowing for an overall antenna efficiency of 10% on 136Khz. The receive system was a home brew up-converter with an input bandpass filter of about 3khz bandwidth on both 73 and 136Khz followed by a mini-circuits MAR6 preamp and MC1496 mixer IC to a 10Mhz IF feeding both a FT990 and IC756 transceiver for most of the time. The FT990 and converter stood up remarkably well to the very large antenna input with no sign of cross-mod. We had a switched attenuator at the input to the converter but for most of the time it was switched out. That attenuator was used later for some comparative tests with a small "back-garden " type antenna nearby which hopefully will be reported on later. We had two operator positions side by side, one handling the 136 and 73 traffic and the second op also monitoring 136/73Khz in parallel but also handling the HF cross-band input mainly from 7.0Mhz. Summary of Results : We had about 65 QSOs in total including those during the initial setting up period on Tuesday 11th of April already reported. Two-way contacts were made on both bands and cross-band contacts from136Khz to 73Khz and to 7.0Mhz There have not been any reception reports from across the pond from VE or W which was always going to be a long shot, but the longest contact was cross-band to 7.0Mhz with Alex, UB5WF in Loc KN58JQ about 200Km north of Odessa on the Black Sea who gave us RST429. normal CW at a distance of 2225Km ! This was over a daylight path at 12-32 UTC on Sunday 16th. It is not known yet what RX antenna Alex had for 136Khz but it is highly unlikely that it was a dedicated LF antenna since there is as yet no LF activity in Russia as far as is known. Other long distance QSOs were to Valerio, Ik5ZPV 2-way on 136 who gave us RST589 IK7HSS cross band to 7.0Mhz, and Neils OZ8NJ (2-way136) who QSPd to us that IK5ZPV was hearing us and would call us shortly. We also got a RST 599 on 136Khz from Christer SM6PXJ , OZ5N and Toni HB2ASB. Two QSOs were also made on both 136 and 73Khz to Finbar EI0CF and Ray GI3PDN. Reports on 73Khz were about 2-S points down with Ray and Finbar by comparison with 136Khz. We also worked GJ4CBQ and GU3SQX cross band 136Khz/7.0 Mhz which was pleasing since due to Loran QRM from Lessay they normally have difficulty in hearing stations on 136Khz. Perhaps one of the most unusual QSOs was with Graham G3XTZ/M operating mobile on 136Khz CW whilst driving to the site to have a spell of operating ! I will post a full list of the QSOs made in the near future when I have transposed the logs. We have also just had a report via E-mail from Marc F5MAF in Toulouse, JN03PP who was hearing us at 599+ on a 2 meter diam loop at a distance of 900Km and bemoaning the fact there is no LF activity in his neck of the woods. Thanks to all those who took part despite the very wet and freezing cold weather and also to those who took the trouble to give us reports which have yet to be analysed. At one point on Saturday as the shifts changed over there were 12 people in the ATU shack at the base of the mast which much represent a large slice of the active UK LF operators! They were :- G3KAU, G3XDV , M0BMU, G0MRF, G3XYM, G3XTZ, G3YSX,, G4GVC, Kate,G4JHI, XYL GVC, G4TSH, G3LHZ , G3GRO and not forgetting Peter G3LDO holding the fort back home and Walter G3JKV who efforts made it all possible. 73 de Derek Atter , G3GRO ( Also licence holder of the G3WSC Crawley Club callsign) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 26780 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2000 06:58:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Apr 2000 06:58:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12iAo5-0000VU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 07:51:21 +0100 Received: from front5.grolier.fr ([194.158.96.55]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12iAo1-0000VP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 07:51:18 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from club-internet.fr (ppp-44-48-56.wmar.club-internet.fr [213.44.48.56]) by front5.grolier.fr (8.9.3/No_Relay+No_Spam_MGC990224) with ESMTP id IAA28864 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 08:50:58 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <38FEB709.6BF94797@club-internet.fr> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 08:51:37 +0100 From: "M & S" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [fr] (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: fr,fr,es-ES MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: re screen dumps...tnx all References: <3f.39b2b67.262f508d@aol.com> <000801bfaa85$df148720$1029f7c2@oemcomputer> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I use a Macintosh system which doesn't crash very often, not to say never. Obviously, there aren't many programs around for amateur radio enthusiasts. The best one I've used for narrow band reception is probably Amadeus II, a rather complete program which permits recording, filing and cleaning-up those noisy signals. No screenshots needed; they're already inside the files. Then you can convert them into any format readable by ANY computer... 73, Mark, F6JSZ P.S. Amplifier's nearly finished. Soon on the air... > > ----- Original Message ----- > From: > To: > Sent: Wednesday, April 19, 2000 7:10 PM > Subject: Re: LF: re screen dumps...tnx all > > > In a message dated 4/19/00 10:17:52 AM Eastern Daylight Time, > > Alan.Melia@btinternet.com writes: > > > > << I even remember the days before MS-DOS when operating systems didn't > > crash..... >> > > > > Golly, Alan. Your memory must go back a lot farther than mine. I can't > > remember ANY operating system that NEVER crashed... :-) > > > > 73, > > John KD4IDY > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11608 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2000 07:46:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Apr 2000 07:46:05 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12iBHP-0000jU-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 08:21:39 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fm215.facility.pipex.com ([194.131.104.225]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12iBHO-0000jP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 08:21:39 +0100 Received: from isis (useri442.uk.uudial.com [194.69.106.52]) by fm215.facility.pipex.com (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id IAA17962 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 08:21:11 +0100 (BST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <4.2.0.58.20000418205205.00985420@mail.pncl.co.uk> X-Sender: blanch@mail.pncl.co.uk X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Version 4.2.0.58 Date: Wed, 19 Apr 2000 21:29:02 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Walter Blanchard" Subject: LF: Puckeridge mast. MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: A bit more about the Decca mast: It's basically a 325 ft (100m) self-supporting tapering tower (see Mike Dennisons' and my own pix). When it was built in 1946 it was hoped one Decca chain might cover the whole of the UK so maximum radiating efficiency was the key. Top-loading is best (yes, they knew that even in 1946!) so the mast carried four horizontal booms at the 250ft level with wires from the top of the mast to the ends of the booms and then down to the top of the base insulators. This gave a capacitance of 3750 pf and a radiating efficiency of around 16% at 85 kHz. Unfortunately it was found a few years later that wind loading on the booms was twisting and fracturing the mast so two booms were taken off and relocated lower down at the 100 ft level. By then it had been found that skywave was limiting usable range to about 240 n.m. and max. efficiency was no longer needed so to reduce maintenance costs the four booms were taken off altogether and the 3750 pf capacitance restored by running eight wires from the top down to a new set of insulators spaced 50 ft frm the mast. Capacitance had to be kept at 3750 pf because the loading coils had been designed for this and couldn't be altered - too expensive! Efficiency went down to around 12% but didn't matter. Grounding system was 36 wires at 10 deg intervals out to 500 ft from base of mast, buried 2 ft. Decca's "model" aerial for artifical loads was 20 uH in series with 3750 pf and 2 ohms. Transmitter produced 1200 w which put 20 amps "up the spout" in normal pattern transmssion and peaked at 60 amps when lane idents went out. Incidentally, the UB5 (KN58 - 2225 kms) report of 42 in daylight over a totally land path (see Dereks report) is equivalent to 2800 kms over a sea path if the CCIR curves are to be believed. Newfoundland is only another 900 kms further away but the curve is falling off so fast at this range it would need another 20 db to make it on pure groundwave from Puckeridge. Be nice if we still had the use of it next winter............... Walter G3JKV From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6228 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2000 08:07:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Apr 2000 08:07:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12iBk1-0000wg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 08:51:13 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12iBk0-0000wa-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 08:51:12 +0100 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id IAA32165; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 08:53:55 +0100 (BST) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 9659 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2000 08:47:56 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 20 Apr 2000 08:47:56 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id HAA13503; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 07:37:59 GMT Received: from unknown(146.80.11.40) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma013473; Thu, 20 Apr 00 07:37:46 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 08:54:40 +0100 Received: by FRN-GOLD-1 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id <2J0989SC>; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 08:49:23 +0100 Message-ID: <3617AC3245C2D1118A840000F805359C01752885@PDW-MERCURY-1> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: "'LF Group'" Subject: LF: Re last message Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 08:49:22 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: The home EMail address in my last message suffered a typing gremlin and should have read DRASSEW2@INTERALPHA.CO.UK Andy G4JNT -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21172 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2000 10:35:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Apr 2000 10:35:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12iEBX-0002CH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:27:47 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12iEBT-0002CC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:27:44 +0100 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id LAA09080; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:30:20 +0100 (BST) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 25259 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2000 11:24:21 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 20 Apr 2000 11:24:21 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id KAA01978; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 10:14:23 GMT Received: from unknown(146.80.11.40) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma001966; Thu, 20 Apr 00 10:14:04 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:30:53 +0100 Received: by FRN-GOLD-1 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id <2J099AKL>; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:25:36 +0100 Message-ID: <3617AC3245C2D1118A840000F805359C01752889@PDW-MERCURY-1> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: "'LF Group'" Subject: LF: LF Dopplergrams Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 11:25:34 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Last night I tried to make a Dopplergram trace of a carrier transmitted from Marco in a bandwidth of 0.12 Hz. On looking at the plot this morning I'm not too sure what to make of it an whether the results are even genuine . Firstly, the frequency seems too far out, centred at 0.04 Hz low and there is a wobble on the trace about 0.02 Hz wide which might or might not be propagation effects. Marco has not confirmed what source he was using for the transmission. Although he had said it was going to be a Rubidium source I am surprised the frequency shift is as high as that observed Conventional Dopplergrams on 3.5 MHz typically show a few Hz shift overnight plus a spreading of the signal, so a simple linear scaling would appear to give the right order of frequency shift to that observed. There was not a lot of spreading visible, but that may be consistent with a single reflection from a moving cleaner layer. But I do not know enough about propagation mechanisms to know if simple scaling is appropriate from 3.5 to 0.137 MHz I'll send a copy of the dopplergram / spectrogram plot to anyone wanting it. Another try tonight hopefully. Andy G4JNT@ARRL.NET or DRASSEW2@INTERALPHA.CO.UK over the Easter break. -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3015 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2000 11:47:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Apr 2000 11:47:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12iFJK-0002jB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 12:39:54 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ds-img-3.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.136] helo=spdmgaac.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12iFJD-0002j4-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 12:39:48 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id HAA14500 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 07:39:02 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 07:38:24 -0400 From: "DEREK ATTER" Subject: LF: Puckeridge - Interim Report - Typo gremlins To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200004200738_MC2-A1E9-FA09@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi all, One or two typo gremlins crept into the report on Puckeridge posted yesterday (19th April) : Next to last para, should read <.... there were 12 people in the ATU shack at the base of the mast which must represent a large slice of the active UK LF operators> Callsign list : For read G3YXM and for read G4JAI (apologies to David and Kate) Also last line should read < .... and not forgetting Walter G3JKV who's efforts made it all possible> 73, Derek, G3GRO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20258 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2000 17:18:48 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Apr 2000 17:18:48 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12iKOI-0005Ez-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 18:05:22 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ds-img-6.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.139] helo=spdmgaaf.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12iKOE-0005Ep-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 18:05:19 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaaf.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id NAA06330 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 13:04:34 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 13:03:53 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: QRSS test running ? To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200004201304_MC2-A201-7543@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Marco, is your test beacon currently on? I got Spectran Beta 2c running now and would like to give it a try throughout the Easter weekend. Thanks and 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25343 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2000 17:51:46 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Apr 2000 17:51:46 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12iL0Y-0005XL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 18:44:54 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from smtper.inrete.it ([212.110.32.184] helo=mailer.inrete.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12iL0X-0005XG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 18:44:53 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from cel266 ([151.25.253.191]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id TAA05457 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 19:44:30 +0200 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 19:44:30 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <4.1.20000420184321.017c8490@mailer.inrete.it> X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Versione 4.1 Data: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 18:44:42 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: Re: LF: QRSS test running ? In-reply-to: <200004201304_MC2-A201-7543@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In 19.42 20/04/00 , hai scritto: >Hello Marco, > >is your test beacon currently on? I got Spectran Beta 2c running now and >would like to give it a try throughout the Easter weekend. > >Thanks and 73 > >Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) > > I will transmit only a carrier at about 10 mW ERP by tonight, for Andy to get a dopplergram of the ionosphere. I will revert to DFCW beacon by tomorrow at 12z. 73 - Marco IK1ODO Marco Bruno - IK1ODO spin@inrete.it SPIN Electronics - www.spin-it.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15333 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2000 18:38:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Apr 2000 18:38:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12iLkI-0005v6-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 19:32:10 +0100 Received: from neodymium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.83]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12iLkD-0005v0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 19:32:05 +0100 Received: from [213.1.139.3] (helo=default) by neodymium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12iLj9-0001aN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 19:30:59 +0100 Message-ID: <003801bfaaf5$8af9cf40$e160063e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: re Dopplergrams on 137.790 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 19:22:49 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Andy, I could copy a carrier at good strength on 137.990 on Spectran last night. I didnt bother recording as there was no modulation. BUT there where two other lines neaby which I think might be weak Loran lines ....these were much weaker than what I think was Marco's carrier. These lines where probably outside your 'slot' , they where about within 0.3 Hz and separated by about about 0.3 - 0.4 Hz. I will be interested to see your plots. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17500 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2000 20:17:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Apr 2000 20:17:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12iNHj-0006cM-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 21:10:47 +0100 Received: from post.interalpha.co.uk ([195.26.224.18] helo=post.interalpha.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12iNHe-0006c8-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 21:10:42 +0100 Received: from g4jnt (sot-mod06.interalpha.net [195.26.225.6]) by post.interalpha.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA25850 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 21:17:27 +0100 Message-ID: <001001bfab04$8a2eb940$06e11ac3@g4jnt> From: "Andy Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: re Dopplergrams on 137.790 Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 21:10:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have a new 'breadboard' programme running now that shows a real time waterfall and spectrum display. It is excrutiatingly painful to watch as the display is only updated every 18 minutes !! A definite carrier has only just appeared exactly on frequency ( at 1930z ) now the sun has set, so there is obviously a very predominantly skywave component with heavy daytime absorbtion. Sampling rate for this one is at 0.244 Hz as the frequency deviation is a lot more than I initially thought it might be. Better plots are produced by processing the stored raw data. I'll let you have copies when that is available, probably tomorrow or Saturday. Andy G4JNT -----Original Message----- From: Alan Melia To: rsgb_lf_group Date: 20 April 2000 20:12 Subject: LF: re Dopplergrams on 137.790 >Hi Andy, I could copy a carrier at good strength on 137.990 on Spectran last >night. I >didnt bother recording as there was no modulation. BUT there where two other >lines neaby which I think might be weak Loran lines ....these were much >weaker than what I think was Marco's carrier. These lines where probably >outside your 'slot' , they where about within 0.3 Hz and separated by about >about 0.3 - 0.4 Hz. I will be interested to see your plots. > >Cheers de Alan G3NYK >Alan.Melia@btinternet.com > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24414 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2000 20:45:29 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Apr 2000 20:45:29 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12iNgo-0006pd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 21:36:42 +0100 Received: from post.interalpha.co.uk ([195.26.224.18] helo=post.interalpha.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12iNgl-0006pY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 21:36:40 +0100 Received: from g4jnt (sot-mod06.interalpha.net [195.26.225.6]) by post.interalpha.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id VAA26629 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 21:43:22 +0100 Message-ID: <003a01bfab08$284ebc80$06e11ac3@g4jnt> From: "Andy Talbot" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: LF Dopplergrams Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 21:36:44 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: After finishing tonight's test with a carrier from Marco, I'd like to try some other signals from Eu land. What strong signals with a definite carrier component are out there to monitor. . Does not matter if the signals cannot be detected by ear so long as I know the frequency to within half a Hz in order to go looking deeper into the noise Initially I'll try the transmission on 138.83 (DCF139 ??) which hopefully uses coherent FSK so the mark tone always returns to the same phase after its burst of data Andy G4JNT From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5859 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2000 21:41:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Apr 2000 21:41:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12iOaS-0007Ho-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 22:34:12 +0100 Received: from smtp13.bellglobal.com ([204.101.251.52]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12iOaP-0007Hj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 22:34:09 +0100 Received: from server1 (Kingston-ppp108733.sympatico.ca [216.209.110.172]) by smtp13.bellglobal.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id RAA12204 for ; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 17:37:19 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <001301bfab0f$b8bcbfe0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: LF Dopplergrams Date: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 17:30:57 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Andy et all: >Initially I'll try the transmission on 138.83 (DCF139 ??) which hopefully >uses coherent FSK so the mark tone always returns to the same phase after >its burst of data Bill de Carle, VE2IQ made some recordings of DCF39 some time ago and he found the signal was breaking up on phase shifts continuously. It will be interesting to find out if they are phase stable on your side of the Atlantic. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12073 invoked from network); 20 Apr 2000 22:15:02 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 20 Apr 2000 22:15:02 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12iP7F-0007XZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 23:08:05 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from smtper.inrete.it ([212.110.32.184] helo=mailer.inrete.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12iP7E-0007XU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 20 Apr 2000 23:08:04 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from cel266 ([151.20.74.71]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id AAA19369 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 00:07:47 +0200 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 00:07:47 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <4.1.20000420230431.016a9d70@mailer.inrete.it> X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Versione 4.1 Data: Thu, 20 Apr 2000 23:08:03 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: LF: QRSS test running all night long In-reply-to: <4.1.20000420184321.017c8490@mailer.inrete.it> Riferimenti: <200004201304_MC2-A201-7543@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >I will transmit only a carrier at about 10 mW ERP by tonight, for Andy to get >a dopplergram of the ionosphere. > >I will revert to DFCW beacon by tomorrow at 12z. > BTW, my QRG is now 137.790 minus 40 mHz; OCXO stability (+/- 1E9 at least). 3V and 5A input to the Mosfets, antenna current about 50 mA or so. Difficult to measure with 6A FS ! 73 - Marco IK1ODO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3178 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2000 07:15:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Apr 2000 07:15:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12iXTe-0002xs-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 08:03:46 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ds-img-3.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.136] helo=spdmgaac.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12iXTb-0002xk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 08:03:43 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaac.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id DAA25139 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 03:02:58 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 03:02:44 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Spectran - First Impressions To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200004210302_MC2-A204-BB14@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello YLs and OMs, just my first impression after playing around with Spectran Beta 2c: compared to Spectrogram it acts like a magnifying glas or a microscope! Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15118 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2000 08:38:37 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Apr 2000 08:38:37 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12iYqg-0003cX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 09:31:38 +0100 Received: from kerberos.telecom.cz ([194.228.2.35]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12iYqd-0003cP-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 09:31:35 +0100 Received: from dell1.cz.gmc.net ([194.228.225.18]) by kerberos.telecom.cz (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id KAA21093 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 10:31:14 +0200 Received: from p (p.maly.cz.gmc.net [192.168.1.35]) by dell1.cz.gmc.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id JJB9P4TM; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 10:31:31 +0200 Message-ID: <005001bfab6b$ff3b7400$2301a8c0@maly.cz.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <200004210302_MC2-A204-BB14@compuserve.com> Subject: LF: Re: Spectran - First Impressions Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 10:31:31 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello all What I mind on Spectran is that the picture movement is slowed down significantly when I begin to do anything else on my PC. The Gram doesn't have this behaviour. Can this be helped anyhow? I will be QRV this Saturday afternoon and Sunday. CU, 73, Petr, OK1FIG ----- Original Message ----- From: 'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW To: Sent: Friday, April 21, 2000 9:02 AM Subject: LF: Spectran - First Impressions > Hello YLs and OMs, > > just my first impression after playing around with Spectran Beta 2c: > compared to Spectrogram it acts like a magnifying glas or a microscope! > > Best 73 > > Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15591 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2000 13:59:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Apr 2000 13:59:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12idq6-0005yB-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 14:51:22 +0100 Received: from ulexite.lion-access.net ([212.19.217.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12idq2-0005y6-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 14:51:19 +0100 Received: from w8k3f0 (1Cust15.tnt5.rtm1.nl.uu.net [212.153.213.15]) by ulexite.lion-access.net (I-Lab) with SMTP id D1B1FFAF27 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 12:49:55 -0100 (GMT) Message-ID: <002501bfab98$837ab920$0fd599d4@w8k3f0> From: "Dick Rollema" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: <4.2.0.58.20000418205205.00985420@mail.pncl.co.uk> Subject: LF: Re: Puckeridge mast. Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 15:43:53 +0200 Organization: Freeler MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2314.1300 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: To All from PA0SE, Many thanks to Walter Blanchard for the interesting info on the Puckeridge Decca station aerial. > four > booms were taken off altogether and the 3750 pf capacitance restored by > running eight > wires from the top down to a new set of insulators spaced 50 ft frm the mast. > Capacitance had to be kept at 3750 pf because the loading coils had been > designed > for this and couldn't be altered - too expensive! Interesting that this way of maintaining the capacitance was adopted instead of simply putting an extra capacitor in parallel with the aerial. Can it be that the cost of the extra wires plus insulators plus anchors for the insulators was lower than the price of a capacitor? 73, Dick, PA0SE From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19364 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2000 15:17:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Apr 2000 15:17:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12if4E-0006ZS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 16:10:02 +0100 Received: from mashie.force9.net ([195.166.128.30]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12if4A-0006Yz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 16:09:58 +0100 Received: (qmail 23539 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2000 15:12:44 -0000 Received: from ruin.servers.plus.net.uk (212.159.2.66) by mashie.force9.net with SMTP; 21 Apr 2000 15:12:44 -0000 Received: (qmail 30895 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2000 15:07:47 -0000 Received: from 220.04-03.quay.dial.plus.net.uk (HELO mud) (212.159.75.220) by ruin.servers.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Apr 2000 15:07:47 -0000 Message-ID: <000801bfaba3$abba5e80$0200a8c0@mud> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Mystery station WBF Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 16:10:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Dear all.
 
I had a phone call from an amateur who is convinced that he heard a high-speed machine-sent morse transmission on March 19th. The message was "WBF WX" repeated, and the frequency was between 90 and 92kHz. Can anyone throw any light on this?
 
73, Dave G3YXM
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3885 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2000 15:25:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Apr 2000 15:25:34 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12if8I-0006ai-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 16:14:14 +0100 Received: from merlins.plus.net.uk ([195.166.128.23] helo=merlins.force9.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12if8H-0006ad-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 16:14:13 +0100 Received: (qmail 28773 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2000 15:16:47 -0000 Received: from ruin.servers.plus.net.uk (212.159.2.66) by merlins.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Apr 2000 15:16:47 -0000 Received: (qmail 31092 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2000 15:12:03 -0000 Received: from 220.04-03.quay.dial.plus.net.uk (HELO mud) (212.159.75.220) by ruin.servers.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Apr 2000 15:12:03 -0000 Message-ID: <001101bfaba4$43dce700$0200a8c0@mud> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: TS850 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 16:14:17 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Dear all.
 
My TS850 has broken. There is something wrong with the synth. It has gone extremely deaf and, when tuning into a strong AM signal it has a strong tone superimposed upon it. The tone will be a different frequency each time the set is turned on.
Any experts out there... or does anyone possess a scrapper for spares so I could try some board swaps?
 
73 Dave G3YXM.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14624 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2000 16:16:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Apr 2000 16:16:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ifwN-00071d-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 17:05:59 +0100 Received: from ewey-rwcmta.excite.com ([198.3.99.191] helo=ewey.excite.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ifwM-00071X-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 17:05:58 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from bubbles.excite.com ([199.172.153.29]) by ewey.excite.com (InterMail vM.4.01.02.39 201-229-119-122) with ESMTP id <20000421160512.CDB22287.ewey.excite.com@bubbles.excite.com> for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 09:05:12 -0700 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <16944873.956333112481.JavaMail.imail@bubbles.excite.com> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 09:05:12 -0700 (PDT) From: "john sexton" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Mystery station WBF MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: Excite Inbox X-Sender-Ip: 213.1.0.113 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Dave, There is a station on 89.87, but it seems to be a regular fast tick. There may be some modulation that is unknown to me. Since LORAN is quite strong at these frequencies, I wonder whether one man's galloping horses is another's fast CW? 73 John, G4CNN _______________________________________________________ Get 100% FREE Internet Access powered by Excite Visit http://freelane.excite.com/freeisp From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10480 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2000 18:36:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Apr 2000 18:36:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ii2l-00081O-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 19:20:43 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from smtper.inrete.it ([212.110.32.184] helo=mailer.inrete.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ii2k-00081J-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 19:20:42 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from cel266 ([151.20.74.16]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id UAA06560 for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 20:20:25 +0200 Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 20:20:25 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <4.1.20000421191839.01614be0@mailer.inrete.it> X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Versione 4.1 Data: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 19:20:39 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: LF: QRSS test running again in DFCW In-reply-to: <4.1.20000420230431.016a9d70@mailer.inrete.it> Riferimenti: <4.1.20000420184321.017c8490@mailer.inrete.it> <200004201304_MC2-A201-7543@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello all, my QRSS beacon is on again in DFCW. QRG 137.790/792, ERP is 5 mW, 30s dots, 10s spaces. Please have a look with Spectrogram and Spectran, at maximum resolution. Any report is welcome. 73 - Marco - IK1ODO - JN35SA From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1794 invoked from network); 21 Apr 2000 22:02:13 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 21 Apr 2000 22:02:13 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ilKR-000129-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 22:51:11 +0100 Received: from gadolinium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.111] helo=gadolinium) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ilKL-000123-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 22:51:05 +0100 Received: from [213.1.166.154] (helo=default) by gadolinium with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12ilJS-0000PL-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 22:50:11 +0100 Message-ID: <000501bfabdb$cf3f8fa0$9aa601d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: IK1ODO qrp beacon Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 22:50:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Marco, I could detect your carrier until about 1100z to 1130z (Uncertainty due to DIY qrm.) Then no further definite signal until about 1930z when elements of the DFCW appeared for a few minutes (dusk here) The signals then faded and the static started to increase by 2130z distict characters can be seen but no way could you read a full call-sign yet. Some of this may be due to much higher static that earlier this week. An interesting point was that it seemed here as thouh your dot freqquency was about 0.2Hz lower when the DFCW appeared than the last seen steady carrier at 1130z. I do not think this is drift at my end as I was running a cal signal which did not move (I have measure this before and found it stable to 0.1Hz ,which is my measurement accuracy, without going really clever.) This has been an interesting test. I make the distance just under 900kms to my location, and I understand todays power was about 10mW ERP. I am sure some averaging would pull a cleaner signal out of the mush ....there is plenty of time for that with 40 sec dots. Thanks for the chance to experiment and really use Spectran for digging down into the noise on a 'real' weak signal. 73 de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25606 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2000 02:04:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Apr 2000 02:04:42 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ipAv-00031o-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 02:57:37 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from imo15.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.5]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ipAu-00031i-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 02:57:36 +0100 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo15.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id l.71.26b9524 (4331) for ; Fri, 21 Apr 2000 21:56:46 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <71.26b9524.263260de@aol.com> Date: Fri, 21 Apr 2000 21:56:46 EDT Subject: Re: LF: Re: Puckeridge mast. To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 102 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 4/21/00 9:57:17 AM Eastern Daylight Time, d.w.rollema@freeler.nl writes: << Interesting that this way of maintaining the capacitance was adopted instead of simply putting an extra capacitor in parallel with the aerial. Can it be that the cost of the extra wires plus insulators plus anchors for the insulators was lower than the price of a capacitor? >> I suspect this was to keep RF current in the aerial itself as high as possible. If they had simply maintained resonance by adding a capacitor across the terminals, the current in the capacitor would not have contributed directly to radiation. 73, John KD4IDY From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24423 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2000 06:27:21 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Apr 2000 06:27:21 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12itBu-0004rH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 07:14:54 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ds-img-5.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.138] helo=spdmgaae.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12itBt-0004rB-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 07:14:53 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaae.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id CAA03917 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 02:14:08 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 02:13:39 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: IK1ODO qrp beacon To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200004220213_MC2-A220-D2DC@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Marco (and other Spectran users), I had quite some similar experience as Alan. While I was able to see a carrier exactly on the specified frequency yesterday morning, I was not able to see anything of your DFCW signal (but the carrier was gone). I watched out for the signal the entire afternoon without success. Another interesting observation: when I run Spectran with no other program running, the lines of the carrier as well as of the Loran signals are quite fuzzy, and not really clear. As soon as I open the network connection to my internet provider and do e-mail, or surf the Internet, the lines become very clear (however, sometimes shifted about 1 Hz or so). My computer has a Pentium III with 500 MHz. Any similar observations? Best 73 Geri, DK8KW (W1KW) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14566 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2000 08:49:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Apr 2000 08:49:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ivUY-0005ql-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 09:42:18 +0100 Received: from praseodumium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ivUU-0005qg-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 09:42:14 +0100 Received: from [213.1.162.134] (helo=default) by praseodumium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12ivT5-0002Dd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 09:40:48 +0100 Message-ID: <001001bfac36$bf721740$5a4401d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Spectran .... Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 09:41:27 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Geri, I also notices a 'spreading' of some signals (abt 0.3Hz). I assumed I had a Loran-C line at that point as well. Now I'm not so sure......is this possible an ionospheric effect? I think Andy refered to something like this. I also wonder whether there might be some processing effect due to the FFT. The line spectrum does seem to have groups of steady lines in it a bit like a windowing problem or 'leakage'. I do not get any spreading of a local weak calibration source (I wonder if it weak enough?) I have also seen a frequency shift when running another program, and I am running a much slower machine. (P II 200MHz) What fooled me was that the signals shifted and stayed shifted when I closed the other program. I was running a synth calibration signal on the display at the same time, and I rechecked that frequency on the counter. I now begin to wonder whether the frequency accuracy (and stability) of the sound card crystals are up to this kind of use. I have noticed the clock start to run slower when running some programs. This is particularly noticable on a machine running Win 3.1 (P II 230Mhz) I was unable to copy the 5mW transmissions over 21/22 April, though I could detect the signal this morning when the static had subsided. On complete decodable charcters where seen. Thanks Marco for an interesting experiment. Cheers de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 21599 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2000 14:02:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Apr 2000 14:02:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12j0Mc-00081y-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 14:54:26 +0100 Received: from merlins.plus.net.uk ([195.166.128.23] helo=merlins.force9.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12j0Mb-00081t-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 22 Apr 2000 14:54:25 +0100 Received: (qmail 6770 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2000 13:57:04 -0000 Received: from ruin.servers.plus.net.uk (212.159.2.66) by merlins.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Apr 2000 13:57:04 -0000 Received: (qmail 32727 invoked from network); 22 Apr 2000 13:52:22 -0000 Received: from 4.04-01.quay.dial.plus.net.uk (HELO picks) (212.159.67.4) by ruin.servers.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 22 Apr 2000 13:52:22 -0000 Message-ID: <004a01bfac62$49c54220$0200a8c0@f9.net.uk> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Scotland Date: Sat, 22 Apr 2000 14:54:31 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Dear all.
 
I will be in GM again from Sunday evening for a couple of days (without the TS850....). I will try some QRS in the evenings. Usual frequency 137.72kHz.
 
73, Dave G3YXM.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1448 invoked from network); 23 Apr 2000 20:47:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 23 Apr 2000 20:47:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12jT5f-0004Bg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 21:34:51 +0100 Received: from praseodumium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12jT5e-0004Bb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 21:34:50 +0100 Received: from [213.1.150.208] (helo=default) by praseodumium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12jT4D-0006Ik-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 23 Apr 2000 21:33:21 +0100 Message-ID: <000601bfad63$7a66fac0$d09601d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: re Scotland Date: Sun, 23 Apr 2000 21:30:02 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Dave nice QRS signal at 2019z here in the land of the Angles, audible as well, and that's without the TS850!! Cheers de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25979 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2000 06:35:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Apr 2000 06:35:18 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12jcHq-00003x-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 07:24:02 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from posti.saunalahti.fi ([195.74.0.45] helo=vihta.saunalahti.fi) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12jcHo-00003s-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 07:24:00 +0100 Received: from default (MCCXXXVI.hdyn.saunalahti.fi [195.197.40.36]) by vihta.saunalahti.fi (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id JAA10467 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 09:16:00 +0300 (EET DST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.6.32.20000424092454.0081aab0@pop.saunalahti.fi> X-Sender: vaiski1@pop.saunalahti.fi (Unverified) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Light Version 3.0.6 (32) Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 09:24:54 +0300 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: =?iso-8859-1?Q?V=E4in=F6_Lehtoranta?= Subject: LF: Signal Strength Measurements by OH2LX 24Apr2000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Signal strength measurements of various LF stations by OH2LX: ------------------------------------------------------------------ Day ------------------ 17Apr 18Apr 19Apr 20Apr 21Apr 22Apr 23Apr MON TUE WED THU FRI SAT SUN Time, UTC ------------ 2030- 2130- 2010- 2100- 2200- 2220- 2120- ------------------------------------------------------------------ kHz Stn d,km AZI Indicated ESH2 input, dBmW ------------------------------------------------------------------ 73.3 Rugby, 1825, 252, Nil -96 -103 -96 -93 -93 -93 ------------------------------------------------------------------ 75.0 HBG, 1992, 226, -105 -100 -104 -102 -99 -99 -99 ------------------------------------------------------------------ 77.5 DCF77, 1543, 228, -84 -89 -85 -83 -85 -83 -86 ------------------------------------------------------------------ 128.2 9f/7D, 2060, 267, -117 -118* -121* -116* -118* -116* -116* ------------------------------------------------------------------ 128.9 DCF49, 1544, 228, -83 -80 -85 -81 -84 -80 -81 ------------------------------------------------------------------ 138.8 DBF39, 1221, 226, -85 -81 -78 -78 -76 -78 -78 ------------------------------------------------------------------ 135.8 SXV, 2490, 182, -115 -108 -109 -107 -107 -105 -106 ------------------------------------------------------------------ 137.0 CFH, 5750, 295, Nil** Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil Nil ------------------------------------------------------------------ ** CFH weakly heard ONLY on the 18th after 0155z up to -129 dBmW ------------------------------------------------------------------ * Other Decca freqs also checked but qrm from Russian Chayka; 71.2(5f), 85.45(6f), & 113.9(8f) indicating -118..-113 dBmW ------------------------------------------------------------------ 17Apr 2034: DJ9IE -127; 2050:-129 20Apr 2133: OH1TN -115; 2135:-116; 2137:-114; 2140:-113; .................. 2145:-115; 2148:-114; 2151:-115 21Apr 2202: OH1BS -118 23Apr 2121: OH1BS -113 23Apr 2127: SM6PXJ -116; 2130: -116; 2137:-116 23Apr 2151: OK1DTN -130; 2204: -129; 2221:-128; 2240:-130 23Apr 2153: MM0ALM -119; 2157: -119; 2203:-119; 2215:-119 ------------------------------------------------------------------ (R&S ESH2/---- 10m coax----/1:10/-----15m wire-----): Noise level with antenna: with 200Hz IF BandWidth: -26..-21 dB(uV), -133..-128dBmW (varies with qrm etc) ------------------------------------------------------------------ End of message of 24 April 2000, 0625 UTC, from OH2LX ---------------------------------------------------------- V.K.Lehtoranta, OH2LX, POBox 50, FIN-05401 Jokela, Finland ------ Tel: +358-9-4173965 ---- Fax: +358-9-4173961 ------ E-mail: vaiski@dlc.fi - alias: oh2lx@dlc.fi & oh2lx@sral.fi From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28209 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2000 09:10:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Apr 2000 09:10:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12jele-0001Ax-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 10:02:58 +0100 Received: from post.interalpha.co.uk ([195.26.224.18] helo=post.interalpha.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12jela-0001As-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 10:02:55 +0100 Received: from g4jnt (sot-mod10.interalpha.net [195.26.225.10]) by post.interalpha.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA15756 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 10:10:10 +0100 Message-ID: <001a01bfadcb$ebb5f4c0$0ae11ac3@g4jnt> From: "Andy Talbot" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: Carrier on 137.7446 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 10:03:12 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: There has been a strong carrier on 137.7446 kHz for at least a week. No modulation and strength doesn't seem to vary. Can anyone else hear this ? If not and it turns out to be local interference, I'll have to make a ferrite rod antenna and try DFing it. Andy G4JNT From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7147 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2000 11:42:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Apr 2000 11:42:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12jh3y-0002EF-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 12:30:02 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from hs-img-1.compuserve.com ([149.174.177.150] helo=sphmgaaa.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12jh3x-0002Ay-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 12:30:01 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by sphmgaaa.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id HAA18034; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 07:28:43 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 07:28:22 -0400 From: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: LF: Re: Spectran Beta 2c To: "LF-Reflector" , "amrad" Message-ID: <200004240728_MC2-A24E-FD6F@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Von: Alberto di Bene, INTERNET:dibene@usa.net An: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW", DK8KW Datum: 24.04.100 12:55 BE: Re: Spectran Beta 2c Hello Geri, yes, there is an answer to your question about the 'fuzzyness' of the display. It all boils down to how Spectran works, and the 'hidden averaging' it does on the received signals. I enclose here following an explanation I gave to Rex Moncur about this subject. He was asking me if/how Spectran does perform an averaging on what it receives. What happens in your case is that when your CPU is more loaded, the overlapping factor (defined below) decreases, and with it the 'fuzzyness'. Feel free to post this message to the newsgroup you mention. 73s Alberto I2PHD ---------------------- ----------------------- attached message ---------------------------------------- Rex, I have been away for a few days, please excuse the delay in answering. In its present implementation, what Spectran does is the following : When you activate the 'Average' push button, a running average is computed on the last five samples, BUT it is applied only to the upper part of the display, i.e. the spectrum-analyser-like waveform. The waterfall is, presently, unaffected by the computed average. This for reasons too long to be explained here. This has already changed in the next beta (almost ready), where also the waterfall is subject to averaging, which is user-selectable, from 1 (no averaging) to 100. But the story doesn't end here. When computing spectra with high resolutions, you are faced with a dilemma : if you update the waterfall only when a completely new set of values are computed, then you might end up with a very slow refresh rate, one update every, let's say, 30 seconds or one minute, which not always is what is desired. To overcome this, the technique of overlapping is used, where you apply a sliding window to the data, reusing a portion of the old data together with some new ones. This permits a much frequent updating of the screen. However, a side effect of this technique is a sort of averaging applied to your displayed data. Spectran applies a variable overlapping factor, continously measuring the CPU load, to keep the CPU near to full utilisation. Hence, also the averaging effect is varying, depending on the instantaneous CPU burden. In the upcoming beta, this has changed, in the sense that you can choose whether continue to use this method, or set a fixed overlapping factor (which of course must be compatible with the cycles your CPU can deliver to the program). Setting this factor to 1 will eliminate altogether whatever averaging is done on the display (and will make your refresh rate slower). Hope this answers your question, 73, Alberto I2PHD -------------------------------- ----------------------- Internet Header -------------------------------- Sender: dibene@usa.net Received: from lmsfw1.emea.ibm.com (d06lmsgate-2.uk.ibm.com [195.212.29.2]) by sphmgaab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) with ESMTP id GAA02563 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 06:55:06 -0400 (EDT) Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by lmsfw1.emea.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id LAA145210 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 11:44:05 +0100 Received: from usa.net (lig32-239-128-97.emea.lig-dial.ibm.com [32.239.128.97]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v2.07) with ESMTP id LAA43508 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 11:55:04 +0100 Message-ID: <390427C6.E283D49A@usa.net> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 12:53:58 +0200 From: Alberto di Bene Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: "'Geri' Kinzel, DK8KW" Subject: Re: Spectran Beta 2c References: <200004220216_MC2-A220-D2E0@compuserve.com> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii Content-Transfer-Encoding: 7bit From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2914 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2000 16:41:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Apr 2000 16:41:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12jlls-0004Jw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:31:40 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ds-img-2.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.135] helo=spdmgaab.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12jllp-0004Jp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 17:31:37 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaab.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id MAA06616 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 12:30:51 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 12:30:13 -0400 From: "DEREK ATTER" Subject: LF: G3WSC/G3GRO log from Puckeridge 14/15/16 April 2000 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200004241230_MC2-A256-4D09@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Herewith the log of the QSOs made under the G3WSC and G3GRO callsigns by the group at the Puckeridge Decca mast . 14/04/00 G3GRO : 73Khz /73Khz - running 5W ERP : All times UTC (16-45 ) G3LDO RST579 (out) / 599(in): (16-47 ) G4GVC 569/ 599+: (16-59) G2AJV 549(QRN) / 599 14/04/00 G3WSC :136/136Khz - running 4W ERP ( 3A ant current) (17-25) G3LDO 599 (out)/599+20dB (in) ; (17-27 ) G6RO 579/599+ ; (17-30 ) GW4ALG 569/599+; (17-33 M0BMU 599+5db/599+40dB ; (18-14 ) SM6PXJ 549QRN/579 (18-25) OZ8NJ 439QRN/559 (18-40) DK8KW; 449QRN/ 579 (19-45) GW4HXO 569/599+10dB (19-56) DK8KW 449/599 G3WSC : 136Khz/ QSX 7.0Mhz (19-58) DL5XU 599/559 JO50DX 136/136Khz (20-20) IK5ZPV 339/589 136/QSX 7.0Mhz (20-30) G4GVC 599/599; (20-45) DJ7RD 599/579; (20-50) G3XTZ 599/599+35dB (21-05) G3XDV 599/599+60dB; (21-16) G4IYE 599/599; (21-30) DL4FAC 599/519 15/04/00 G3WSC 136/136Khz - running 25W ERP (09-30) GW4HXO 559/599+18dB; (09-44) HB2ASB 559/599+ (09-50) G3OLB 599/599; (10-00) EI0CF 569/599+ (10-05) OZ5N 569/599+; (11-30) G3XTZ/M (mobile 136Khz!!) 599/599; (11-40) G3CCH 569/589; (11-50) G6RO 589/599; (12-07) PA0BWL 589/ 599; From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25851 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2000 20:12:19 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Apr 2000 20:12:19 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12jp1C-0005l0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 20:59:42 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from smtper.inrete.it ([212.110.32.184] helo=mailer.inrete.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12jp14-0005kS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 20:59:35 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from cel266 ([151.20.72.182]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id VAA08651 for ; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 21:59:14 +0200 Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 21:59:14 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <4.1.20000424204713.009e6810@mailer.inrete.it> X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Versione 4.1 Data: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 20:52:47 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: Re: LF: IK1ODO qrp beacon In-reply-to: <000501bfabdb$cf3f8fa0$9aa601d5@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In 09.39 22/04/00 , Alan G3NYK wrote: ..... > An >interesting point was that it seemed here as thouh your dot freqquency was >about 0.2Hz lower when the DFCW appeared than the last seen steady carrier >at 1130z. I do not think this is drift at my end as I was running a cal >signal which did not move (I have measure this before and found it stable to >0.1Hz ,which is my measurement accuracy, without going really clever.) > >This has been an interesting test. I make the distance just under 900kms to >my location, and I understand todays power was about 10mW ERP. I am sure >some averaging would pull a cleaner signal out of the mush ....there is >plenty of time for that with 40 sec dots. > >Thanks for the chance to experiment and really use Spectran for digging down >into the noise on a 'real' weak signal. > Hello Alan, in effect the DFCW signal source is a XTAL in air, FSK'd by a transistor inserting a few pF in parallel. The steady carrier source was an ovenized XTAL with very good stability. At the moment I have no synthesizer capable of sub-Hz steps, I have to FM the XTAL! I hope somebody else checked the signal. I will let it running until tomorrow (tuesday) morning. 73 - Marco IK1ODO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18131 invoked from network); 24 Apr 2000 22:22:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 24 Apr 2000 22:22:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12jr8B-0006is-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 23:15:03 +0100 Received: from praseodumium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12jr87-0006in-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 23:14:59 +0100 Received: from [213.1.71.175] (helo=default) by praseodumium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12jr6Q-0006EX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Mon, 24 Apr 2000 23:13:14 +0100 Message-ID: <000e01bfae3a$90eab3e0$af4701d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: DX Cluster spots for Easter weekend at GB7DXM Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 21:36:19 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi All, very thin for spots this weekend, I guess it was a family weekend.I copied a very nice QRS CQ from Petr OK1FIG at 1202 on Sunday (even the slight keying glitch sending "OK1UEIG") I thought it was more company for Petr at first. Despite a solid signal he got no replies to 2 cqs as far as I heard. I heard a very good QRS signal from Dave /P in GM on Sunday evening. He seemed to be working well on Monday morning at hand speeds. It occurs to me that Dave's GM location would be quite a good site for transatlantic signals, having almost completely water path from the West of Scotland to Canada. If I can copy 10mW QRSS (40 sec dots) from Marco over the Alps and over France at 900kms.......... I saw Valerio's call-sign (IK5ZPV) as he was worked by Marcus DF6NM on QRS I think (Mon abt 1030z I was not taking too much notice at the time) though I did not see a signal from Valerio this time. I also remember hearing DF0WD, DJ9IE, PA0BWL, ON7YD, MM0ALM, G6RO and G4GVC pounding out of the speaker at various times over the holiday. Cluster spots:- 136.9 PA0BWL 24-Apr-2000 1121Z 549 cq 136.8 DF7VX 23-Apr-2000 0856Z 549 136.8 DF7VX 23-Apr-2000 0856Z 549 137.0 DF0WD 22-Apr-2000 0913Z 137.2 G3GRO 16-Apr-2000 1541Z on 71.8 kHz 569 qsx 137.25 G3NYK de GB7DXM 24-Apr 1949> Cheers de Alan G3NYK JO02PB Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 1748 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2000 08:31:32 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Apr 2000 08:31:32 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12k0X9-0002VE-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 09:17:27 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12k0X8-0002V9-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 09:17:26 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id KAA161410 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 10:17:05 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000425101314.08ef3ba2@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 10:13:14 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: IK1ODO qrp beacon In-reply-to: <4.1.20000424204713.009e6810@mailer.inrete.it> References: <000501bfabdb$cf3f8fa0$9aa601d5@default> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >I hope somebody else checked the signal. I will let it running until tomorrow >(tuesday) morning. > >73 - Marco IK1ODO Hi Marco, I checked for the beacon on friday and saturday nigh. I could see some traces but not possible to 'decode' anything. QRN was very bad. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6443 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2000 08:47:39 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Apr 2000 08:47:39 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12k0pH-0002el-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 09:36:11 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from gatek.vs.dasa.de ([195.243.118.226] helo=gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12k0pG-0002ed-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 09:36:10 +0100 X-MSMail-Priority: High Received: by gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id KAA06697; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 10:37:18 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from somewhere by smtpxd X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Message-ID: From: "Koenig, Wolfgang" To: "'rsgb_lf_group'" Subject: LF: WG: HB0 DXpedition 28.04- 01.05.00 136kHz up to 10GHz Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 10:35:46 +0200 Importance: high X-Priority: 1 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > A group of six germans will be QRV from Liechtenstein 28.4 - 1.5.2000 on > all HF Bands > CW and SSB with two stations simultaeously. > There will be also one station for 6m and one for 10GHz (Rainscatter and > Scatter > on Saentis Mountain). > The first time we will aktivate HB0 on the 136kHz Band. Aktivity will be > posted in the cluster. > > Callsign will be HB0/Homecall. QSL via Homecall. > Operators are DF5UL, DL1GGT, DL1SAN, DL2MEH, DL5EBT and DL6SAQ. > > 73's cu on many Bands > > DL1GGT > Tom > Hope to meet you on LF next weekend. In spite of the forecasted thunderstorms. Operation time will be Friday evening to Monday morning hopefully. Skeds via packet to dl1san@db0gpp because I have no acces to internet during the weekend. 73 de wolf, dl1san From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24031 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2000 09:40:47 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Apr 2000 09:40:47 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12k1j0-000360-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 10:33:46 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12k1ix-00035u-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 10:33:43 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id KAA15849 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 10:33:26 +0100 X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <2000042423211468199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Mon, 24 Apr 2000 23:21:14 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: Re: LF: Carrier on 137.7446 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Andy Talbot said > There has been a strong carrier on 137.7446 kHz for at least a week. No > modulation and strength doesn't seem to vary. > Can anyone else hear this ? Yes, I can. It is so consistant (ever since we were allocated the band) that I use it as frequency check marker when using Spectran or Gram. It is clearly audible so I use it to check my receiver/antenna system on audio CW as well. I understand that the signal originates in France but I can't remember where I got this information. -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11017 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2000 10:09:41 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Apr 2000 10:09:41 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12k2B8-0003L7-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:02:50 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from imo-d09.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.41]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12k2B6-0003L0-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:02:48 +0100 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo-d09.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v25.3.) id l.f.2fdb944 (4222) for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 06:01:57 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 06:01:56 EDT Subject: LF: Projects Web Site To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 32 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have made a minor change to the URL of my web site in a recent 'tidy-up' It's now: www.g0mrf.freeserve.co.uk The /projects has been dropped. Please update any links you may have. Thanks es 73 David From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29023 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2000 10:44:22 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Apr 2000 10:44:22 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12k2gT-0003ZC-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:35:13 +0100 Received: from front3m.grolier.fr ([195.36.216.53]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12k2gR-0003Z7-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:35:11 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from club-internet.fr (ppp-44-28-98.wmar.club-internet.fr [213.44.28.98]) by front3m.grolier.fr (8.9.3/No_Relay+No_Spam_MGC990224) with ESMTP id MAA09059 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:34:51 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <390582B8.E9D89AC6@club-internet.fr> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:34:39 +0100 From: "M & S" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.5 [fr] (Macintosh; I; PPC) X-Accept-Language: fr,fr,es-ES MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Carrier on 137.7446 References: <2000042423211468199@zetnet.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Maybe we could do some direction finding on this one and I'll try to find out exactly where the signal is coming from. I'm probably closer, which could help... 73, Mark, F6JSZ > Yes, I can. It is so consistant (ever since we were allocated the > band) that I use it as frequency check marker when using Spectran or > Gram. It is clearly audible so I use it to check my receiver/antenna > system on audio CW as well. I understand that the signal originates > in France but I can't remember where I got this information. > > -- > Regards, Peter, G3LDO > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29721 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2000 10:48:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Apr 2000 10:48:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12k2lL-0003dH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:40:15 +0100 Received: from mailout04.sul.t-online.de ([194.25.134.18]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12k2lK-0003dC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:40:14 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from fwd01.sul.t-online.de by mailout04.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 12k2l4-00049U-01; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:39:58 +0200 Received: from (087321565-0001@[62.158.206.66]) by fwd01.sul.t-online.de with smtp id 12k2ky-1uYpOKC; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:39:52 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: "Hans-Joachim Brandt" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: Re: LF: WG: HB0 DXpedition 28.04- 01.05.00 136kHz up to 10GHz X-Mailer: T-Online eMail 2.3 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:39:52 +0200 Message-ID: <12k2ky-1uYpOKC@fwd01.sul.t-online.de> X-Sender: 087321565-0001@t-dialin.net Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Lbr Wolfgang, vielleicht erwische ich euch noch am 1. Mai, denn die Tage davor bin ich engagiert beim QRP-Treffen in Pottenstein. Du hast den DF7VX im Cluster gemeldet; hast du ihn gearbeitet? Das ist ja der derzeitige VHF-UHF-Referent des DARC; ich habe ihn schon gefragt, ob seine Schaefchen sich durch ihn noch richtig vertreten fuehlen!! 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB Koenig, Wolfgang schrieb: > > > > > > A group of six germans will be QRV from Liechtenstein 28.4 - 1.5.2000 on > > all HF Bands > > CW and SSB with two stations simultaeously. > > There will be also one station for 6m and one for 10GHz (Rainscatter and > > Scatter > > on Saentis Mountain). > > The first time we will aktivate HB0 on the 136kHz Band. Aktivity will be > > posted in the cluster. > > > > Callsign will be HB0/Homecall. QSL via Homecall. > > Operators are DF5UL, DL1GGT, DL1SAN, DL2MEH, DL5EBT and DL6SAQ. > > > > 73's cu on many Bands > > > > DL1GGT > > Tom > > > Hope to meet you on LF next weekend. In spite of the forecasted > thunderstorms. > Operation time will be Friday evening to Monday morning hopefully. Skeds via > packet to dl1san@db0gpp because I have no acces to internet during the > weekend. > > 73 de wolf, dl1san > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 542 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2000 11:01:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Apr 2000 11:01:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12k2tH-0003ha-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:48:27 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12k2t8-0003gJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:48:19 +0100 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id LAA20437; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:51:04 +0100 (BST) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 10783 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2000 11:44:45 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 25 Apr 2000 11:44:45 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id KAA17473; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 10:34:20 GMT Received: from unknown(146.80.11.40) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma017369; Tue, 25 Apr 00 10:33:52 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:39:31 +0100 Received: by FRN-GOLD-1 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id <2J099MT6>; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:33:57 +0100 Message-ID: <3617AC3245C2D1118A840000F805359C0175288F@pdw-mercury-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Carrier on 137.7446 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 11:33:55 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I got the impression that carrier has only appeared recently - withn the last couple of months anyway, but my memory is probably fading with age ! I spotted it since It was sitting only a few 10s of Hz from where Marco was transmitting his low power tests. The interferer caused no problems but did depress the AGC of the receiver somewhat in the 300 Hz bandwidth filter. On this subject, does anyone know of a low-cost source of 455 kHz (series resonance) crystals. I want to make up a ladder filter for the RA1792 with a much narrower bandwidth than the 300 Hz mechanical filter included. I've made a ladder filter at a centre frequency of 32765.5 Hz using watch crystals, this has a bandwidth of 1.5 Hz but this would need a down followed by up conversion to include within the receiver. A crystal controlled LO capable of being pulled over the 10 Hz step size would allow this filter to be built into the Rx, and would not need a terribly stable conversion (provided it stayed within the bandwidth of the ladder filter) as the drift of this oscillator would cancel out the down followed by upconversion to 455 kHz. Just a thought, but a ladder filter at 455 would be a lot easier. Andy G4JNT > ---------- > From: Peter Dodd[SMTP:g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk] > Reply To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Sent: 2000-04-24 23:21 > To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Subject: Re: LF: Carrier on 137.7446 > > Andy Talbot said > > > There has been a strong carrier on 137.7446 kHz for at least a week. > No > > modulation and strength doesn't seem to vary. > > Can anyone else hear this ? > > Yes, I can. It is so consistant (ever since we were allocated the > band) that I use it as frequency check marker when using Spectran or > Gram. It is clearly audible so I use it to check my receiver/antenna > system on audio CW as well. I understand that the signal originates > in France but I can't remember where I got this information. > > > -- > Regards, Peter, G3LDO > > > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29241 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2000 11:30:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Apr 2000 11:30:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12k3Ql-0003z1-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:23:03 +0100 Received: from gatek.vs.dasa.de ([195.243.118.226] helo=gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12k3Qi-0003yw-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:23:01 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id NAA13452; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 13:24:13 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from somewhere by smtpxd X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Message-ID: From: "Koenig, Wolfgang" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: AW: LF: WG: HB0 DXpedition 28.04- 01.05.00 136kHz up to 10GHz Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 13:22:36 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hallo Ha-Jo, bis jetzt hab ich ihn noch nicht gearbeitet. Mein sender war allerdings am wochenende nicht betriebsbereit. aber da seh ich kein problem. 73 and hear you from HB0 de dl1san wolf -----Ursprüngliche Nachricht----- Von: hajo.brandt.dj1zb@t-online.de [mailto:hajo.brandt.dj1zb@t-online.de] Gesendet am: Dienstag, 25. April 2000 12:40 An: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Betreff: Re: LF: WG: HB0 DXpedition 28.04- 01.05.00 136kHz up to 10GHz Lbr Wolfgang, vielleicht erwische ich euch noch am 1. Mai, denn die Tage davor bin ich engagiert beim QRP-Treffen in Pottenstein. Du hast den DF7VX im Cluster gemeldet; hast du ihn gearbeitet? Das ist ja der derzeitige VHF-UHF-Referent des DARC; ich habe ihn schon gefragt, ob seine Schaefchen sich durch ihn noch richtig vertreten fuehlen!! 73 Ha-Jo, DJ1ZB Koenig, Wolfgang schrieb: > > > > > > A group of six germans will be QRV from Liechtenstein 28.4 - 1.5.2000 on > > all HF Bands > > CW and SSB with two stations simultaeously. > > There will be also one station for 6m and one for 10GHz (Rainscatter and > > Scatter > > on Saentis Mountain). > > The first time we will aktivate HB0 on the 136kHz Band. Aktivity will be > > posted in the cluster. > > > > Callsign will be HB0/Homecall. QSL via Homecall. > > Operators are DF5UL, DL1GGT, DL1SAN, DL2MEH, DL5EBT and DL6SAQ. > > > > 73's cu on many Bands > > > > DL1GGT > > Tom > > > Hope to meet you on LF next weekend. In spite of the forecasted > thunderstorms. > Operation time will be Friday evening to Monday morning hopefully. Skeds via > packet to dl1san@db0gpp because I have no acces to internet during the > weekend. > > 73 de wolf, dl1san > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25507 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2000 12:00:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Apr 2000 12:00:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12k3uh-0004D8-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:53:59 +0100 Received: from kerberos.telecom.cz ([194.228.2.35]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12k3ud-0004D3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 12:53:56 +0100 Received: from dell1.cz.gmc.net ([194.228.225.18]) by kerberos.telecom.cz (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id NAA02511 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 13:53:32 +0200 Received: from p (p.maly.cz.gmc.net [192.168.1.35]) by dell1.cz.gmc.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id JTL2K5ZM; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 13:53:57 +0200 Message-ID: <004701bfaeac$f087c1e0$2301a8c0@maly.cz.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org References: Subject: LF: Re: WG: HB0 DXpedition 28.04- 01.05.00 136kHz up to 10GHz Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 13:53:57 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=x-user-defined; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello all I really wouldn't like miss this expedition. Do you have any time schedule for 136 kHz? Which dates and what time should I search for you? Will you be on CW or also on Visual-CW? 73, Petr, OK1FIG > > > > > > A group of six germans will be QRV from Liechtenstein 28.4 - 1.5.2000 on > > all HF Bands > > CW and SSB with two stations simultaeously. > > There will be also one station for 6m and one for 10GHz (Rainscatter and > > Scatter > > on Saentis Mountain). > > The first time we will aktivate HB0 on the 136kHz Band. Aktivity will be > > posted in the cluster. > > > > Callsign will be HB0/Homecall. QSL via Homecall. > > Operators are DF5UL, DL1GGT, DL1SAN, DL2MEH, DL5EBT and DL6SAQ. > > > > 73's cu on many Bands > > > > DL1GGT > > Tom > > > Hope to meet you on LF next weekend. In spite of the forecasted > thunderstorms. > Operation time will be Friday evening to Monday morning hopefully. Skeds via > packet to dl1san@db0gpp because I have no acces to internet during the > weekend. > > 73 de wolf, dl1san > > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12971 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2000 20:19:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Apr 2000 20:19:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kBXM-0007xS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:02:24 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from smtper.inrete.it ([212.110.32.184] helo=mailer.inrete.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kBXI-0007xN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:02:21 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from cel266 ([151.20.85.142]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA29811 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:02:03 +0200 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:02:03 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <4.1.20000425210112.0163d0e0@mailer.inrete.it> X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Versione 4.1 Data: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:01:59 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: Re: LF: IK1ODO qrp beacon In-reply-to: <3.0.1.16.20000425101314.08ef3ba2@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> Riferimenti: <4.1.20000424204713.009e6810@mailer.inrete.it> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In 15.04 25/04/00 , Rik wrote: >Hi Marco, > >I checked for the beacon on friday and saturday nigh. I could see some >traces but not possible to 'decode' anything. QRN was very bad. > >73, Rik ON7YD > Rik, with what program and setting? 73, Marco IK1ODO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8689 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2000 20:23:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Apr 2000 20:23:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kBdZ-0007yb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:08:49 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from smtper.inrete.it ([212.110.32.184] helo=mailer.inrete.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kBdX-0007yV-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:08:48 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from cel266 ([151.20.85.142]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA31650 for ; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:08:25 +0200 Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 22:08:25 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <4.1.20000425210402.0163b070@mailer.inrete.it> X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Versione 4.1 Data: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:08:23 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: RE: LF: Carrier on 137.7446 In-reply-to: <3617AC3245C2D1118A840000F805359C0175288F@pdw-mercury-1.der a.gov.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In 15.04 25/04/00 , G4JNT wrote: >On this subject, does anyone know of a low-cost source of 455 kHz >(series resonance) crystals. I want to make up a ladder filter for the >RA1792 with a much narrower bandwidth than the 300 Hz mechanical filter >included. It's hard, I tried to have 455 kHz xtals built on order, but the producer says that he had no 'blanks' (raw slices of SiO2, I presume) available for frequencies under 1 MHz - nobody wants them, today ! >Just a thought, but a ladder filter at 455 would be a lot easier. > My RA1792 has a 100 Hz xtal filter in place of the wire bridge on the filter bank. This filter is rare, but sometime available. 73, Marco IK1ODO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23585 invoked from network); 25 Apr 2000 22:36:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 25 Apr 2000 22:36:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kDpS-0000a0-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:29:14 +0100 Received: from rhenium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.93]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kDpO-0000Zv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:29:10 +0100 Received: from [62.7.7.5] (helo=default) by rhenium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12kDoW-00010z-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Tue, 25 Apr 2000 23:28:16 +0100 Message-ID: <000301bfaf05$b6383f20$0507073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: Extra Cluster spots at DB0MBX via Wolf Date: Tue, 25 Apr 2000 21:10:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: These Cluster spots from DB0MBX in southern Germany did not propagate to GB7DXM and were sent on to me by wolf DL1SAN 137.0 OK1DTN 23-Apr-2000 1617Z cq cq ... 137.0 OK1DTN 23-Apr-2000 1551Z 136.6 DJ9IE 23-Apr-2000 1245Z cq 599 in JO42fd 137.0 OK1FIG 22-Apr-2000 1043Z 137.0 OK1DTN 21-Apr-2000 1916Z weak nr Ffm. Wolf apologises for not adding his usual numbers this weekend but he was preparing for the HB0 Expedition and attending to family responsibilies over the holiday weekend. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com Cheers de Alan From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 27155 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2000 07:48:42 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 2000 07:48:42 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kML3-0004Zl-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 08:34:25 +0100 Received: from gate3.oss.akzonobel.nl ([192.87.3.7]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kMKz-0004Zd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 08:34:21 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (from fwmaster@localhost) by gate3.oss.akzonobel.nl (8.9.1a/8.6.12) id JAA08626 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:33:36 +0200 (MET DST) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by gate3.oss.akzonobel.nl via smap (V1.3) id sma007956; Wed, 26 Apr 00 09:32:42 +0200 Received: by ras1.oss.akzonobel.nl with Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) id ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:32:42 +0200 Message-ID: <81B84E03FF6FD21197060000F87B128701ED615B@capella2.oss.akzonobel.nl> From: "Laken, W.H.P.A. van der \(Wil\)" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Visit 9H Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:32:39 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello 9H stations I will visit 9H from 3 - 10 May. If anybody is interested in LF over there I would be glad to have a chat with him or her. Reactions please to my e-mail address: PA0BWL@amsat.org or w.laken@diosynth.nl 73 Wil (PA0BWL) From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3503 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2000 08:01:06 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 2000 08:01:06 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kMZI-0004hY-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 08:49:08 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kMZH-0004hS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 08:49:07 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id JAA123150 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:48:51 +0200 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000426094459.2d37432c@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:44:59 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: IK1ODO qrp beacon In-reply-to: <4.1.20000425210112.0163d0e0@mailer.inrete.it> References: <3.0.1.16.20000425101314.08ef3ba2@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello Marco, To take advantage of the 40 second dots I used Spectran. Settings were slowest possible 'screenspeed' and 0.064Hz bandwidth. I left the other setting as default. 73, Rik At 22:02 25/04/00 +0200, you wrote: >In 15.04 25/04/00 , Rik wrote: > >>Hi Marco, >> >>I checked for the beacon on friday and saturday nigh. I could see some >>traces but not possible to 'decode' anything. QRN was very bad. >> >>73, Rik ON7YD >> >Rik, with what program and setting? > >73, Marco IK1ODO > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20300 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2000 08:22:36 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 2000 08:22:36 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kMuw-0004th-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:11:30 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kMuu-0004tY-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:11:28 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id JAA12349 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:11:13 +0100 X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <2000042608120168199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 08:12:01 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: LF: Re: LF, Rain stops play Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Had a telephone call from Mike, GW3XDV, to say that, due to bad weather today, he would not be on until Thursday, around 1600hrs -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20486 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2000 08:22:50 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 2000 08:22:50 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kMuw-0004ti-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:11:30 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kMuu-0004tX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:11:28 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id JAA12346 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:11:13 +0100 X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <2000042608084368199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 08:08:43 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: LF: Re: Transatlantic QRSS Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Alan Melia >....... If I can copy 10mW QRSS (40 sec dots) from Marco over the Alps and over France > at 900kms.......... Alan seems to be having some success with receiving Marco. Up to now I have seen nothing from Marco yet when I had a 73kHz/136kHz with I5TGC Alan could not see Cesare. But what we are learning is the effectiveness of the technique; and the variability of conditions. At the we have not been able to correlate the reception of of a distant QRP station with the magnetic activity from the sun, if there is an R in the month or observations of QRO commercial stations. So, as Alan implies, the same QRSS techniques used with amateur QRO (circa 1w erp) stations could be used to bridge the 'pond' at any time provided conditions were reasonable. The obvious solution would be to monitor a station running in beacon mode with QRSS keying. >From our experience this requires a lot of very close liaison with the those involved on both sides of the Atlantic and up to now I have not seen much evidence of this, although I would be the first to agree that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. I don't think that you have to mount large 'DXpedition' stations to succeed in bridging the pond - patience, liaison and application with the equipment and knowhow we already possess should be enough. -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 6674 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2000 10:21:34 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 2000 10:21:34 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kOpc-0005qc-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:14:08 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kOpZ-0005qX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:14:05 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id MAA80356 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:13:48 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000426120956.2457f9ae@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:09:56 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: LF: loss resistance measurements In-reply-to: <81B84E03FF6FD21197060000F87B128701ED615B@capella2.oss.akzo nobel.nl> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: >From august 99 to today I measured the enviromental loss resistance of my antenna. The measurments were done by measuring the TX output power and the antennacurrent. The known coil losses were subtracted. Results (all values in Ohms) : 17 Aug 99 : 130 31 Aug 99 : 126 16 Sep 99 : 128 01 Oct 99 : 127 17 Oct 99 : 122 11 Nov 99 : 118 30 Nov 99 : 113 16 Dec 99 : 110 30 Dec 99 : 108 14 Jan 00 : 110 29 Jan 00 : 114 15 Feb 00 : 110 28 Feb 00 : 116 13 Mar 00 : 112 28 Mar 00 : 128 14 Apr 00 : 138 25 Apr 00 : 135 >From this data it seems that periods of dry / wet weather have a rather limited effect on the loss (about 5 to 10 Ohms) while the seazonal effect (summer / winter) seems to be in the order of 25 to 30 Ohms. In the past I have measured values as high as 155 Ohms (dry period in summer) and as low as 105 Ohms (wet period in winter). The major summer / winter effect can be explained by the high ammount of 'greenery' around the antenna. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5916 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2000 11:54:17 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 2000 11:54:17 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kQHk-0006Ye-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:47:16 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kQHi-0006YZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:47:15 +0100 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id MAA09007; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:50:01 +0100 (BST) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 14986 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2000 12:43:38 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 2000 12:43:38 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id LAA16626; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 11:33:11 GMT Received: from unknown(146.80.11.40) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma016619; Wed, 26 Apr 00 11:32:58 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:50:54 +0100 Received: by FRN-GOLD-1 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id <2J099W5M>; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:45:17 +0100 Message-ID: <3617AC3245C2D1118A840000F805359C01752896@pdw-mercury-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Transatlantic beacon tests Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:45:14 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I was receiving Marco's carrier during the night tests at 20 - 30dB above noise in a 2mHz bandwidth at a distance of 927km. Daytime was 10 - 15dB lower. In a Spectran bandwidth of 0.03 Hz that will correspond to about 12db less S/N ie 8 - 18dB - a good visible signal on a waterfall, so confirms we are receiving consistent levels between us. Transatlantic test beacons need to be very stable so that the listeners over there that have the equipment can use very narrow bandwidths. Spectran may be popular but it will only go down to 0.03 Hz and other listeners over there do have other DSP equipment that can do a lot better. I suggest we don't use 2 Hz FSK (DFCW) unless this is generated by a DDS or similar source which can absolutely guarantee the tone frequencies. This sort of frequency shift requires a crystal to be pulled a long way and results in a rather hit or miss frequency setting accuracy. Marco's first test showed this when I got a wonderful wobbly trace. Instead, I suggest a simple on / off keyed carrier in traditional SLOWCW or whatever it is called now generated from a source with a bit of care taken over its stability. Normal CW may take longer to send a callsign but so what, if someone actually hears it and can measure S/N. A simple temperature control, such as the clip on crystal heaters based on a positive temperature thermistor (as used by all microwave operators) would help towards getting the sort of accuracy needed. On my 10 GHz transceiver kept in the shack, a normal crystal with one of these devices generally stays within 1ppm A small packaged TCXO source, now available from Farnell and other suppliers for a few pounds, is specified at 1 or 2 ppm accuracy, but my experience of packaged TCXOs is that they generally do a lot better than this if kept in a normal reasonably constant indoor environment. 0.2ppm means 27mHz accuracy which is comfortably on scale for an FFT span of 0.061 Hz (my slowest is 0.03 Hz) giving a resolution of 1mHz. A heater on one of these could probably do even better. For a serious transatlantic beacon project, I have a 5 MHz source available. This is a laboratory standard oscillator but MUST be kept running. After a few days stabilising, it will stay within a few parts in 10^-10 (but if switched off and on again, hysteresis reduces the accuracy and it needs to be reset. Needless to say there is no hope whatsoever of FSKing it ! I also have a DDS source controlled by the 5 MHz which can give a frequency setting resolution of 1mHz. These can be made available to anyone serious who wants to set up and keep going a suitable high power beacon. I can also offer off air frequency measurement to anyone who needs a beacon measured. Andy G4JNT > >So, as Alan implies, the same QRSS techniques used with amateur QRO >(circa 1w erp) stations could be used to bridge the 'pond' at any >time provided conditions were reasonable. The obvious solution would >be to monitor a station running in beacon mode with QRSS keying. >>From our experience this requires a lot of very close liaison with >the those involved on both sides of the Atlantic and up to now I have >not seen much evidence of this, although I would be the first to >agree that absence of evidence is not evidence of absence. -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28946 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2000 13:42:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 2000 13:42:55 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kRxt-0007Tp-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 14:34:53 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kRxr-0007Tk-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 14:34:51 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id PAA163518 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 15:34:36 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000426153044.2e8ff712@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 15:30:44 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic beacon tests In-reply-to: <3617AC3245C2D1118A840000F805359C01752896@pdw-mercury-1.der a.gov.uk> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: If using milli-Hz resolution don't foxus only on TX stability but also on RX stability ! An example : last weekend I installed Spectran in order to monitor Marco's signal. Monday evening QRN was far too high to listen (look) for Marco, so I decided to use Spectran to check the frequency stability of the PLL-VFO of my TX. The VFO is working on +/- 8.8MHz in 64Hz steps and this signal is divided by 64 to get the 136kHz signal in 1Hz steps. To get an accurate measurement I twisted a short wire arround the VFO and connected it to the antenna input of my TS440 so I could hear the 8.8MHz signal. I left it running for some time at room temperature (abt 22C) and then opened the window, what made the temperature drop to abt. 14C in less than 10 minutes. With Spectran I saw a frequency 'jump' of about 30Hz (on 8.8MHz), so less than 0.5Hz on 136kHz. Now I was getting curious how good I could see this 0.5Hz 'jump' with Spectran, so I Closed the window, let the VFO get bach to its original frequency and repeated the experiment, now monitoring the 136kHz signal. And indeed, I could see the 0.5Hz 'jump', but strange enough after some time (with the window open) the frequenc slowly started to return to the original value. First I was fussed by this effect, but then I understood what was happening : the VFO of my TS440 also 'took a cold' (due to the larger mass and better shielding it happened slower). The second effect was considerable smaller than the initial 0.5Hz drift (I estimate it about 0.1Hz to 0.2Hz) but when working with milli-Hz bandwidth even 0.1Hz drift might be unacceptable. 73, Rik ON7YD At 12:45 26/04/00 +0100, you wrote: >I was receiving Marco's carrier during the night tests at 20 - 30dB >above noise in a 2mHz bandwidth at a distance of 927km. Daytime was 10 >- 15dB lower. > >In a Spectran bandwidth of 0.03 Hz that will correspond to about 12db >less S/N ie 8 - 18dB - a good visible signal on a waterfall, so >confirms we are receiving consistent levels between us. > >... ETC ... From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4815 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2000 14:01:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 2000 14:01:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kSGi-0007dS-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 14:54:20 +0100 Received: from smtp11.bellglobal.com ([204.101.251.53]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kSGh-0007dN-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 14:54:19 +0100 Received: from server1 (ppp70.on.bellglobal.com [206.172.245.70]) by smtp11.bellglobal.com (8.8.5/8.8.5) with SMTP id JAA02154 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:59:53 -0400 (EDT) Message-ID: <006a01bfaf86$7ccb9b20$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Transatlantic beacon tests Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 09:51:04 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Gentlemen: >Transatlantic test beacons need to be very stable so that the listeners >over there that have the equipment can use very narrow bandwidths. >Spectran may be popular but it will only go down to 0.03 Hz and other >listeners over there do have other DSP equipment that can do a lot >better. The notion of excellent transmitter frequency stability is critical, but so also is the necessity of having fully automated receiving systems to take advantage of the fully automated transmitting systems! I offer that the only long term fully automated receiving software system available today is that of VE2IQ, Bill de Carle, who has made his C - BPSK system work over long distances using the GRAB feature. From my perspective a season long experiment will require just as much automation and detail work in the receiver as it will for the transmitter. What is needed is a suitable very narrow bandwidth receiver design to go with the DDS effort we are making over here with the AD9835 DDS device. I am also prepared to share in the Transmitter effort with alternate nights from this side with a 240 ft high tower with a partial umbrella antenna on it. My Sulzer Labs standard at the transmitter will easily keep 2 parts in 10 -10th. A reliable large final amplifier is critical to this effort, one that does not need any baby sitting and can be left running for weeks on end in a dark, cool transmitter building. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12375 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2000 17:58:45 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 2000 17:58:45 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kUm3-0000Nb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:34:51 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kUm1-0000NW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:34:50 +0100 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id RAA25559; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:37:39 +0100 (BST) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 7789 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2000 17:31:16 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 2000 17:31:16 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id QAA18595; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 16:20:48 GMT Received: from unknown(146.80.11.40) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma018478; Wed, 26 Apr 00 16:20:01 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 16:41:59 +0100 Received: by FRN-GOLD-1 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id <2J099ZJX>; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 16:36:22 +0100 Message-ID: <3617AC3245C2D1118A840000F805359C01752898@pdw-mercury-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: RE: LF: Transatlantic beacon tests Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 16:36:15 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I think most modern transceivers derive all their internal frequencies from one master oscillator. The IC746 uses a 30 MHz device which at extra cost can be replaced by a small 1-2ppm ovenned oscillator. This has excellent stability in practice, and after about 30 minutes warm up stays within 0.1ppm if room temperature does not change violently. Exact frequency can be adjusted from a preset on the rear panel. I haven't done it yet, but this could be easily phase locked to a frequency standard. Alternatively, the conversion LO for an LF transverter can be derived from this internal signal, thus cancelling out drift at the HF intermediate freq. Net drift is then the 1ppm (or whatever) but now only at the LF frequency. Getting respectable...... However, in practice for LF I use a RA1792 Rx. Again all freqs are derived from one master - an external 5 MHz source with 10^-10 stability. For the narrow bandwidth Rx, if you want to start from scratch what about this as an outline scheme ? Start off with a DDS derived LO locked to a standard oscillator, and downconvert the LF band directly to 32765 Hz. Make up a ladder filter using watch crystals - I have a first cut design for a five crystal device with a bandwidth of 1.1 Hz. Subsequently convert the output down to 1 - 2 Hz 'baseband', again with a locked LO. A/D convert directly at a sampling rate of, say, 10 Hz to 16 bit accuracy, again with the sampling clock locked to the frequency standard and feed the output to a PC via the serial port or even the parallel port. At this data rate soundcards are irrelevant and any 16 bit language running in DOS can do some very advanced signal processing. If I hadn't got so many other projects and a perfectly good Rx I'd have a go myself ! Andy G4JNT >From Rik .... >And indeed, I could see the 0.5Hz 'jump', but strange enough after some >time (with the window open) the frequenc slowly started to return to the >original value. First I was fussed by this effect, but then I understood >what was happening : the VFO of my TS440 also 'took a cold' (due to the >larger mass and better shielding it happened slower). The second effect was >considerable smaller than the initial 0.5Hz drift >From Larry ......... >What is needed is a >suitable very narrow bandwidth receiver design to go with the DDS effort we >are making over here with the AD9835 DDS device. -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7266 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2000 17:59:15 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 2000 17:59:15 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kUrQ-0000RJ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:40:24 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from ds-img-6.compuserve.com ([149.174.206.139] helo=spdmgaaf.compuserve.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kUrP-0000Qm-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 17:40:23 +0100 Received: (from mailgate@localhost) by spdmgaaf.compuserve.com (8.9.3/8.9.3/SUN-1.9) id MAA03993 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:39:38 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 12:39:05 -0400 From: "DEREK ATTER" Subject: LF: G3WSC/G3GRO log from Puckeridge - Part 2 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Message-ID: <200004261239_MC2-A2B0-C42F@compuserve.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Content-Type: text/plain; charset=ISO-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Disposition: inline Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LFers, I have just discovered that the last part of the Puckeridge log for G3WSC/G3GRO for 15/ 16th April was not transmitted with my earlier report for some reason so here is the missing section including the QSO with Alex, UB5WF !! :- 15/04/00 G3WSC running 10W ERP, Two-Way 136Khz (12-20 UTC) DF7VX RST (sent) 249/559 (rcvd); (13-06) DL3FDO 569/569; (13-15) GI3PDN 579/599+ ; (13-34) G4JNT 599/599+; (13-42) EI0CF 579/599+20dB; 15/04/00 G3GRO running 10W ERP 73Khz/136Khz Cross-band (14-00) EI0CF 579/ 58-99 ; (14--16) GI3PDN 579/579 16/04/00 G3WSC running 50W ERP Two-way 136Khz (10-05) DK8KW 439/599+24dB; (10-17) PA0SE 559/599+20dB; (10-39) DF0WD 449/599; (10-45) DF7VX 349/599 (10-55) G6NB 569/599; (11-17) SM6PXJ 449/599; (11-18) PA2NJN 449/599 16/04/00 G3WSC running 50W ERP 136Khz cross-band to 7.011Mhz (11-36) G4FKK 599/599+; (11-42) IK1HSS 589/559; (11-46) G6RC 599/599+20dB; (11-53) DL8AAM 589/559 ((11-58) GJ4CBQ 589/599; (12-04) GU3SQX 589/599; (12-10) DL1YD 599/569; (12-18) G4ASR 599/599 (12-32) UB5WF 589/429 ( Alex , locator KN58JK ) 16/04/00 G3GRO running 30W ERP 73Khz cross-band to136Khz (14-35) DK8KW 449/569; (15-05) PA0SE 579/599; (15-22) PA0BWL 569/559 16/04/00 G3GRO running 30W ERP 73Khz two-way - (15-30) G4YXM 589/599+10 QRT 15-45 UTC Thanks to all those who sent in signal reports and comments. A special QSL card is being produced ASAP Pse QSL via the Buro or direct to : Derek Atter, G3GRO/G3WSC, 1, Little Crabtree, West Green, Crawley , Sussex, RH11 7HW UK. 73, On behalf of all the Crew at Puckeridge - Derek Atter, G3GRO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 5288 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2000 20:46:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 2000 20:46:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kYHV-00023S-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 21:19:33 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from smtper.inrete.it ([212.110.32.184] helo=mailer.inrete.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kYHR-00023L-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 21:19:29 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from cel266 ([151.20.80.15]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA12974 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 22:19:07 +0200 Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 22:19:07 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <4.1.20000426210650.01791a30@mailer.inrete.it> X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Versione 4.1 Data: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 21:19:08 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Transatlantic beacon tests In-reply-to: <006a01bfaf86$7ccb9b20$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In 21.01 26/04/00 , Larry VA3LK wrote: > >The notion of excellent transmitter frequency stability is critical, but so >also is the necessity of having fully automated receiving systems to take >advantage of the fully automated transmitting systems! > Larry, we (Renato IK1QFK and me) use an automatic system to monitor the VLF/ELF activity. A PC runs Spectrogram at low speed (a screen fills in 20 minutes, as with Spectran at minimum speed), and an automatic program takes screenshots at 18 minutes intervals. We use "2020" by American Software. Every day or two you look at the screenshots and evaluate the results. A QRSS signal would be easy to detect! The system is not automatic, but permits to find opening hours. I used this in last winter to monitor CFH; it worked fine. And all the necessary software is available on the web. For a detailed description, the site of Renato is at : http://web.tiscalinet.it/vlfradio/ The receiver frequency stability is a major issue, however. But as Andy points out, a good standard is easy to get (you already have the HP 10 MHz oscillator inside the 5328A, a very good one). Renato's radio (an old FT707, if I remember well) has some dozens of different Xtals to form the final frequency ... unthinkable today. It drifts half a kHz per hour at power-on ... 73, Marco IK1ODO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14646 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2000 21:06:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 2000 21:06:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kYpO-0002KZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 21:54:34 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kYpM-0002KU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 21:54:32 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id VAA01780 for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 21:54:10 +0100 X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <2000042620532768199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 20:53:27 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: Re: LF: Re: Transatlantic beacon tests Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Larry said > What is needed is a suitable very narrow bandwidth receiver design to go with the DDS effort we > are making over here with the AD9835 DDS device. > I am also prepared to share in the Transmitter effort with alternate nights > from this side with a 240 ft high tower with a partial umbrella antenna on > it. My Sulzer Labs standard at the transmitter will easily keep 2 parts in > 10 -10th. A reliable large final amplifier is critical to this effort, one > that does not need any baby sitting and can be left running for weeks on end > in a dark, cool transmitter building. Some of Andy's comments >For the narrow bandwidth Rx, if you want to start from scratch what >about this as an outline scheme ? >Start off with a DDS derived LO locked to a standard oscillator, and >downconvert the LF band directly to 32765 Hz. Make up a ladder filter >using watch crystals - I have a first cut design for a five crystal >device with a bandwidth of 1.1 Hz. Subsequently convert the output down >to 1 - 2 Hz 'baseband', again with a locked LO. A/D convert directly >at a sampling rate of, say, 10 Hz to 16 bit accuracy, again with the >sampling clock locked to the frequency standard and feed the output to a >PC via the serial port or even the parallel port. At this data rate >soundcards are irrelevant and any 16 bit language running in DOS can do >some very advanced signal processing. Phew! All this high-tech, big-gun approach is going to leave me behind. Could we look at it in a wider perspective? Most of the main achievements on the LF bands have been acomplished using relatively low-tech and modest equipment. What you might call an amateur approach. Long distance marginal links appear to be open for short durations. This means that the transmissions cannot be spread out over a long time, as would be necessary for very narrow band techniques. On the other hand narrow band techniques, as currently employed by most operators, can give a an improvement of between 15 and 20dB over aural CW methods and seems the best compromise. The currently available FFT S/W and the soundcard also offers the added bonus of simplicity, which enables lots of non-techies like myself to participate. A lot is made of frequency stability. Spectran displays 18Hz of the band in the horizontal mode when set to 0.064Hz resolution. A signal with a frequency stability of + or - 5Hz can be tracked long as it doesn't bump into one of the many Loran lines. (if it drifts into a Loran line it will drift aout again!). The worst situation you can have is a very stable amateur signal on top of a Loran line. In practice most QRSS signals on the band appear to have a frequency stability better that +/- 0.5Hz and encounters with Loran lines are rare. At the moment, I understand that there are two beacons operating in the USA but I am not sure if they have any keying that would identifiable with Spectran set at say, 0.064Hz. So let us go for the amateur approach to exploring transatlantic propagation. We can start anytime. -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11697 invoked from network); 26 Apr 2000 22:40:07 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 26 Apr 2000 22:40:07 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kaLx-00033Z-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:32:17 +0100 Received: from praseodumium.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.82]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kaLu-00033N-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:32:14 +0100 Received: from [213.1.97.241] (helo=default) by praseodumium.btinternet.com with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12kaJC-00033A-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:29:26 +0100 Message-ID: <000301bfafcf$3111bb80$f16101d5@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: "rsgb_lf_group" Subject: LF: High frequency-stability drive sources Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 21:08:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi there has been some discussion about stable drive sources for narrow band modes. One possible source that sometimes becomes available these days is a Pye/Philips unit which used to be used as the frequency source for quasi-synchronous radio communication systems, like the wide area coverage systems of the emergency and utility services. The unit model number is HS400 and it contains circuitry to lock a crystal to a 5MHz ovened standard oscillator (2 types with either a Toyo or a Racal unit). The stability available is a few parts in 10^9. I think these units are now obsolete so may become more easily available. They are a little large being 19in rack-mount units. If anyone does find one I have the technical details. 73 de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18828 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2000 03:27:20 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Apr 2000 03:27:20 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12keqD-0005Mw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 04:19:49 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from imo-d06.mx.aol.com ([205.188.157.38]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12keqB-0005MF-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 04:19:47 +0100 Received: from WarmSpgs@aol.com by imo-d06.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v26.7.) id l.6a.2388de7 (3978) for ; Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:17:05 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: WarmSpgs@aol.com Message-ID: <6a.2388de7.26390b31@aol.com> Date: Wed, 26 Apr 2000 23:17:05 EDT Subject: Re: LF: Re: Transatlantic beacon tests To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 4.0 for Windows 95 sub 102 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I have only the greatest respect for Peter and his views, and I certainly don't want to begin any new and unproductive controversies on the reflector, nor to dredge up any old ones. However, it seems to me that Andy's thoughts on a possible narrowband receiver design are very much in the amateur spirit. The "tech" involved is not very high. Certainly, not as high as that involved in most modern commercial receivers. Nor would the applicable DOS software be any more elaborate than, nor require as sophisticated a computer system as, Spectran. The only significant difference is that Andy's approach requires a lot more individual initiative, rather than reliance on commercially manufactured gear. Just as I would not consider the use of manufactured transceivers or even pre-existing antenna sites as "un-amateur," I'm sure Peter did not mean to imply that a homebrew approach such as this was outside the amateur realm. It may well be that we'll have to try a number of different approaches simultaneously to achieve the Transatlantic dream. As long as any of these approaches have a realistic chance of succeeding (meaning, they're not appreciably contrary to established knowledge of this portion of the radio spectrum) I hope one or more groups will try each of them. 73, John KD4IDY From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3023 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2000 10:29:05 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Apr 2000 10:29:05 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12klQ7-0008QH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 11:21:19 +0100 Received: from helios.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12klQ2-0008QA-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 11:21:14 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by helios.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 12klMt-0000v2-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 11:17:59 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <20958.200004271026@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 11:27:24 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Transatlantic Tests X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, With all this talk of millihertz resolution, and atomic clock-like stability, I wonder if any particular frequencies or sub-bands have been considered for transatlantic test purposes? After all, the best DSP techniques won't detect a signal if it's on the wrong frequency, or if someone is innocently having a manual CW QSO on top of it! Another motive for raising this is on the grounds of complexity; like several others, I don't have synthesised equipment, and building fully featured synthesizers in my spare time is definitely a long term goal. But I could come up with pretty good stability equipment with the help of a couple of crystals, if I knew what frequency they should be. With this in mind, it would be helpful if the Transatlantic II people could let us know of their intentions as soon as possible. Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29309 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2000 11:56:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Apr 2000 11:56:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kmos-0000Xn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 12:50:58 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kmoo-0000Xi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 12:50:54 +0100 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id MAA16048; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 12:53:43 +0100 (BST) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 16138 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2000 12:47:17 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 27 Apr 2000 12:47:17 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id LAA09728; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 11:36:45 GMT Received: from unknown(146.80.11.40) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma009687; Thu, 27 Apr 00 11:36:31 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 12:54:35 +0100 Received: by FRN-GOLD-1 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id <2J0999HP>; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 12:48:55 +0100 Message-ID: <3617AC3245C2D1118A840000F805359C0175289F@pdw-mercury-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: High stability drive sources Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 12:48:52 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > Are more of these becoming available ? A lot have been bought up by > microwave operators recently. > > The best way to use these it take out the oscillator module which runs > off 12 Volts and use that individually, then throw the rest away. A > bit wastefull perhaps, but the rest of the electronics is specific to > providing a source for a single UHF frequency and not very adaptable. > > > The Toyo oscillator itself is very good but does not have voltage > control of fine trimming. I published a modification to allow this in > a Microwave newsletter some years ago when these units first appeared. > Don't know the Racal unit, but believe it does already have varicap > fine tuning. > > Andy G4JNT > > > > ---------- > From: Alan Melia[SMTP:Alan.Melia@btinternet.com] > Reply To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org > Sent: 2000-04-26 21:08 > To: rsgb_lf_group > Subject: LF: High frequency-stability drive sources > > Hi there has been some discussion about stable drive sources for > narrow band > modes. One possible source that sometimes becomes available these days > is a > Pye/Philips unit which used to be used as the frequency source for > quasi-synchronous radio communication systems, like the wide area > coverage > systems of the emergency and utility services. The unit model number > is > HS400 and it contains circuitry to lock a crystal to a 5MHz ovened > standard > oscillator (2 types with either a Toyo or a Racal unit). The stability > available is a few parts in 10^9. I think these units are now obsolete > so > may become more easily available. They are a little large being 19in > rack-mount units. If anyone does find one I have the technical > details. > > 73 de Alan G3NYK > Alan.Melia@btinternet.com > > > > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28529 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2000 12:08:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Apr 2000 12:08:54 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kmzn-0000h4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 13:02:15 +0100 Received: from mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be ([134.58.10.6]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kmzi-0000gv-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 13:02:11 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be (LCBD15.fys.kuleuven.ac.be [134.58.80.15]) by mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be (8.9.3/8.9.0) with SMTP id OAA297726 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 14:01:38 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <3.0.1.16.20000427135745.2d179b22@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> X-Sender: pb623250@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be X-Mailer: Windows Eudora Pro Version 3.0.1 (16) Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 13:57:45 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Rik Strobbe" Subject: Re: LF: Re: Transatlantic beacon tests In-reply-to: <6a.2388de7.26390b31@aol.com> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: I think that Andy's (G4JNT) approach to go to milli-Hz bandwidth will be very usefull in exploring the limits of what we can do with our small antennas and 1 Watt ERP limit. It may also give us some interesting information on propagation. But due to the very narrow bandwidth the 'speed' will also be extremely low. Practise has learned us that a basic QRSS QSO at 3 sec. dot length takes about 30 minutes. As 1mHz bandwidth corresponds to a dot length of 1000 seconds a minimal QSO (exchange of calls and 'TMO' report) will take about 16 hours. The question is if we will have a 16 hours long period of ionospheric propagation over a 4000km long path ? Otherwise we will need to rely on the surface wave and the disadvantge of this is that it has a 'coaxial cable like' attenuation of 2 to 3 dB per 100km. This means that you need 40 to 60dB more power (or better SNR) to cover a 4000km path compared to a 2000km path. My opinion is that we should try all possibilities, going from normal-speed CW over QRSS and DFCW to the milli-Herz techniques that Andy is developing, in our attempt to cross the pond. Even within a small community as our 'LF world' there are different groups of interest. But I see this as a benefit, not as a problem. 73, Rik ON7YD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25874 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2000 12:10:55 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Apr 2000 12:10:55 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kn3D-0000hb-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 13:05:47 +0100 Received: from gatek.vs.dasa.de ([195.243.118.226] helo=gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kn3C-0000hT-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 13:05:46 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: by gatekeeper.vs.dasa.de; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id OAA22923; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 14:06:45 +0200 (MET DST) Received: from somewhere by smtpxd X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from somewhere by smtpxd Message-ID: From: "Koenig, Wolfgang" To: "'rsgb_lf_group'" Cc: "'dl1san@yahoo'" Subject: LF: HB0-Activity Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 14:05:15 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.5.2650.21) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hallo Petr hallo Group, a few more details about the expedition: We are only able to work in normal CW. There is no schedule for our operation because we don´t know anything about the local details and about qrn conditions. Some X-band activities are planed too. Activity will be announced via the dx cluster net. If possible via db0mdx ( running clx). We have no access to internet or e-mail. Please sked´s via packet to dl1san@db0gpp-8. The telephone number of our qth (hut) is: 00423/2626884. Equipment : see http://www.qsl.net/dl1san/ Antenna: hopefully a few hundred meters of wire. We hope the forecasted thunderstorms keep lowly. Alternatively we hope to manage a few 10GHz qsos via rain-scatter. W´r also qrv on 50 MHz and 1.8-28MHz (inc WARC). 73 and hope to meet you on the band dl1san wolf From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 18320 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2000 13:34:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Apr 2000 13:34:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12koIQ-0001Kv-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 14:25:34 +0100 Received: from tomts3.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.141] helo=tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12koIL-0001Ko-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 14:25:29 +0100 Received: from server1 ([206.172.245.8]) by tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with SMTP id <20000427132435.RJQS24624.tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 09:24:35 -0400 Message-ID: <005501bfb04b$8c0b9bb0$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: Transatlantic Tests, M0BMU issues Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 09:10:37 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Gentlemen: TransAtlantic II test will use CW at what ever speed the European side is sending, QRS CW probably at the rate of .4 WPM or what ever rate the European end is sending, maybe and hopefully some C-BPSK. I have said it before and repeat now, TransAtlantic II will focus on getting as many QSO's as possible over the North Atlantic for a Two Week/Three Weekend period of time. I expect that once we are successful with the big signals that we will then search for other signals that we become aware of through email to look for. Courtesy of some very welcome assistance from your side we are now synthesized in .25 Hz steps over the LF band. The only known frequency to avoid is probably 136.6 to 137.6 which is occupied by a rather loud station located in the Halifax, Nova Scotia area. My personal focus for operating frequencies will be exactly what I am told to transmit on and listening on what ever frequencies I am told will be used from the European side. When we get on site in VO1 I will make a map of the Loran QRM situation send it out by email. Please remember we have some unknowns, the Loran-C transmitters both south and north of us and the very loud signal on 137.000 some 600 miles behind us. This reminds me, I must get seriously into the study of options we might have of phasing down the signal on 137.000, who has experience with this subject? At least two of our team will be meeting with David, G0MRF in a few weeks from now. Anyone with special issues, interests or needs should contact either David or myself to discuss and see how we can work through the details to make one more QSO possible. I expect we will have at a minimum a Windows NT-4 platform at the transmitter site and probably a Win95 or better system at the receiver site. One piece of news is that it is possible we may have a chap dedicated to the use of large kites as part of the Transmitter team for the duration of the TransAtlantic II test period. If this works out it will help us get a few more dB out of the system equations Hi. Summary: We will transmit where ever in the band we need to so that we can be heard, once we arrive and find out the local noise situation we will let everyone know what the real-time situation is and what frequencies might work best coming to us from Europe. Updates will be at a minimum of once a day and if necessary it will be done on email in real time. Jim, M0BMU, I can not tell you any exact frequencies other than the basic interference constraints noted above, and that we will work with everyone to make every QSO possible over the North Atlantic during the test period. All other discussions from here about milliHz bandwidths etc are for the period of time POST to the TransAtlantic II operating period. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15892 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2000 17:12:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Apr 2000 17:12:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12krfN-00032T-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 18:01:29 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12krfJ-00032N-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 18:01:25 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id SAA09249 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 18:01:10 +0100 X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <2000042717001668199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 17:00:16 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: LF: Re: GW3XDV Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Phone message from Mike, GW3XDV/P. He hopes to be QRV on around 71.7kHz from 1800 hrs local (1700UTC). If no activity then he will QSY to 136kHz. Rugby is on again as strong as ever at S9 +45dB here on the South Coast -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7005 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2000 18:04:23 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Apr 2000 18:04:23 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ksUu-0003Ot-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 18:54:44 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from imo24.mx.aol.com ([152.163.225.68]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12ksUp-0003Om-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 18:54:39 +0100 Received: from G0MRF@aol.com by imo24.mx.aol.com (mail_out_v26.7.) id l.de.42efd4b (3846) for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 13:53:41 -0400 (EDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 From: G0MRF@aol.com Message-ID: Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 13:53:40 EDT Subject: Re: LF: Transatlantic Tests To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Mailer: AOL 5.0 for Windows sub 32 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In a message dated 4/27/00 11:27:20 AM GMT Daylight Time, j.r.moritz@herts.ac.uk writes: << Another motive for raising this is on the grounds of complexity; like several others, I don't have synthesised equipment, and building fully featured synthesizers in my spare time is definitely a long term goal. But I could come up with pretty good stability equipment with the help of a couple of crystals, if I knew what frequency they should be. With this in mind, it would be helpful if the Transatlantic II people could let us know of their intentions as soon as possible. >> Hi Jim / group. The frequencies will probably depend on local receiving conditions on both sides. It's quite likely that 'split' operation is best, after all, it will not matter to us if we are required to transmit on a Loran line from Lessay - Just as long as we don't have to listen on one! I've built a few twin crystal VXO's recently.-Based on an idea by Peter G3LDO. These are fairly stable but could be improved by using the clip-on crystal heaters as suggested by Andy G4JNT. Coverage is no problem. Even with a divide by two stage they still cover 70% of the band. You just have to calibrate them against a frequency standard. e.g. 60k and gram. 73 David G0MRF From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12774 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2000 20:09:31 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Apr 2000 20:09:31 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kuVD-0004Kg-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 21:03:11 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from smtper.inrete.it ([212.110.32.184] helo=mailer.inrete.it) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kuVB-0004Kb-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 21:03:09 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from cel266 ([151.20.75.19]) by mailer.inrete.it (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id WAA20986 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 22:02:49 +0200 Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 22:02:49 +0200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <4.1.20000427204122.01160be0@mailer.inrete.it> X-Sender: spin@mailer.inrete.it (Non verificato) X-Mailer: QUALCOMM Windows Eudora Pro Versione 4.1 Data: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 21:02:50 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "M. Bruno" Subject: LF: IK1ODO qrp beacon active In-reply-to: <4.1.20000425210112.0163d0e0@mailer.inrete.it> Riferimenti: <3.0.1.16.20000425101314.08ef3ba2@mail.cc.kuleuven.ac.be> <4.1.20000424204713.009e6810@mailer.inrete.it> MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: My QRP DFCW beacon is active again for the weekend. Operating conditions now: Frequency 137.792 / 137.793 kHz, shift about 1.03 Hz Frequency is controlled by the usual "stupid" XTAL in air, so don't expect more than 0.2 Hz stability. However, I hope to be clear of the Loran-C lines (thank you Alan for the details about the line frequencies; I decided to stay in the middle). Power is 10W to the aerial, so about 10 mW radiated (0.55A into 32 mOhm). Mode is DFCW, the upper frequency is the dash, the lower is the dot. Speed 30s dots, 10s intervals. This should be about optimal for Spectran use at 0.032 Hz resolution. I hope to leave the TX running until May 2 in the morning. Again, any report is welcome. 73 - Marco IK1ODO spin@inrete.it Rivalta, ITALY JN35SA (N 45 01' 25.6", E 7 31' 09.4") From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 17894 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2000 20:18:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Apr 2000 20:18:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kueQ-0004PX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 21:12:42 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kueP-0004PS-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 21:12:41 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id VAA32028 for ; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 21:12:02 +0100 X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <2000042719151368199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 19:15:13 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: LF: Re: 73kHz Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Mike, GW3XDV and myself tried a QSO on 71.63kHz without success. It is interesting that, in spite of both of us being to able to feed 2amps into reasonable antennas, nothing was seen or heard both ways. At the time the QRN level was rising and the Loran lines were fading under the general background noise on Spectran. I could be that Rugby played its part in raising the noise floor. Mike plans to repeat the test on Saturday morning. A time was not specified but the generator has to be returned by 1100 local. -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 12088 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2000 22:22:12 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Apr 2000 22:22:12 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kwYY-0005Le-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 23:14:46 +0100 Received: from carbon.btinternet.com ([194.73.73.92] helo=carbon) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kwYU-0005LX-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 23:14:42 +0100 Received: from [62.7.26.155] (helo=default) by carbon with smtp (Exim 2.05 #1) id 12kwY6-00059G-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 23:14:19 +0100 Message-ID: <002c01bfb096$06800760$9b1a073e@default> From: "Alan Melia" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: RE: High stability drive sources Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 23:14:57 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hi Andy, yes I have a toe in the microwave camp too! The Racal block has a 'tweaker' available through the rear panel but I am not sure whether it is a pot or a cap yet. I have one of each here. Yep they are a bit big but look to see what frequency you want to stablise before you throw the rest away they will produce stabilised output from 2Mhz to about 32 MHz but not continuously there are gaps. I believe the microwave boys are using them with a 32MHz rock to give the 96MHz standard LO base frequency. You mentioned the Murata heater tabs earlier.....have you any idea what temperature these are supposed to stabilise at?? My data book doesn't quote this. I have seen problems where the crystal used was not specified for a turnover at the 'oven' temperature, leading to worse stability than without using the tab. (crystals for use in ovened enclosure are usually cut at a slightly different angle I believe) Used correctly they should give a order of magnitude improvement for the guys with outside shacks! Particularly if the 'tab' 12v supply can be left switched on. It is not a total cure and for best performance crystals still need to be protected from direct draughts even if only by a cornflake package. Cheers de Alan G3NYK Alan.Melia@btinternet.com -----Original Message----- From: Talbot Andrew To: 'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org' Date: 27 April, 2000 12:54 PM Subject: LF: RE: High stability drive sources > >> Are more of these becoming available ? A lot have been bought up by >> microwave operators recently. >> From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 2595 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2000 22:33:51 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Apr 2000 22:33:51 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kwl5-0005UX-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 23:27:43 +0100 Received: from merlins.plus.net.uk ([195.166.128.23] helo=merlins.force9.net) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kwl4-0005US-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 23:27:42 +0100 Received: (qmail 7825 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2000 22:30:48 -0000 Received: from rack.servers.plus.net.uk (212.159.2.65) by merlins.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Apr 2000 22:30:48 -0000 Received: (qmail 26208 invoked from network); 27 Apr 2000 22:26:04 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO picks) (212.159.64.123) by rack.servers.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 27 Apr 2000 22:26:04 -0000 Message-ID: <019101bfb097$dd142b20$714d9fd4@f9.net.uk> From: "Dave" To: "LF Group" Subject: LF: GI operation from "Decca" site. Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 23:19:00 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2615.200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Dear all.
 
GI3PDN and MI0AYZ (who has a NOV for 73k) intend to operate from a disused Decca site Friday and Saturday. Skeds welcome on both bands. Ray's mobile phone number is 07787 153 137.
There will be problems as there is no electricity to the site now and a generator will have to be used.
 
73. Dave G3YXM. 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 15157 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2000 00:32:03 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Apr 2000 00:32:03 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kyXx-0006Uj-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 01:22:17 +0100 Received: from m11.boston.juno.com ([205.231.100.194]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12kyXw-0006Ue-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 01:22:16 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from cookie.juno.com by cookie.juno.com for <"yokUgcxCbtTP7XLrpefewNx/RxBsjJqR/tOX/y7ZDI7mU0oztHoEMg=="> Received: (from riese-k3djc@juno.com) by m11.boston.juno.com (queuemail) id E6PX7DTA; Thu, 27 Apr 2000 20:21:46 EDT X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Thu, 27 Apr 2000 20:12:18 -0400 Subject: Re: LF: Re: RE: High stability drive sources Message-ID: <20000427.201854.-3178817.1.riese-k3djc@juno.com> X-Mailer: Juno 2.0.11 X-Juno-Line-Breaks: 4-22 X-Juno-Att: 0 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit From: "Bob RIESE" Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: When heating a xtal up for the first time is a good idea to burn it in . Leave the heater active for several days or longer and then you may find the frequency may have shifted but will stay where it settled down. I believe the heaters will come in different temps and it may be well worth a check with the xtal manufactures to find a recommended temp They do make a nice difference Bob >temperature these are supposed to stabilise at?? My data book doesn't >quote >this. I have seen problems where the crystal used was not specified >for a >turnover at the 'oven' temperature, leading to worse stability than >without >using the tab. (crystals for use in ovened enclosure are usually cut >at a >slightly different angle I believe) Used correctly they should give a >order >of magnitude improvement for the guys with outside shacks! >Particularly if > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13503 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2000 07:49:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Apr 2000 07:49:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12l5ER-00013i-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 08:30:35 +0100 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from bob.dera.gov.uk ([192.5.29.90]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12l5EP-00013d-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 08:30:33 +0100 Received: by bob.dera.gov.uk; (8.8.8/1.3/10May95) id IAA15309; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 08:33:25 +0100 (BST) X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: (qmail 24194 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2000 08:26:56 -0000 Received: from gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk (172.16.9.10) by baton.dera.gov.uk with SMTP; 28 Apr 2000 08:26:56 -0000 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk; id HAA03328; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 07:16:19 GMT Received: from unknown(146.80.11.40) by gauntlet.mail.dera.gov.uk via smap (3.2) id xma003306; Fri, 28 Apr 00 07:16:10 GMT Received: from frn-gold-1.dera.gov.uk (unverified) by mailguard.dera.gov.uk (Content Technologies SMTPRS 4.1.5) with ESMTP id for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 08:34:24 +0100 Received: by FRN-GOLD-1 with Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) id <2J090C4G>; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 08:28:41 +0100 Message-ID: <3617AC3245C2D1118A840000F805359C017528A1@pdw-mercury-1.dera.gov.uk> From: "Talbot Andrew" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: RE: High stability drive sources Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 08:28:38 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 X-Mailer: Internet Mail Service (5.0.1460.8) Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: > The ones available from the Microwave Component service were 35 - 40 > deg units. These were just about OK. for the normal 20 deg > temperature crystal although a bit close to the turnover as you say. > Taking uWave equipment out portable on a hot day meant sunlight on the > RF box could raise the temp above this, upsetting the stability. > > Some heaters Sam, G4DDK, had were 50 - 60 deg units and need a > specially cut crystal, where the perfomance was then excellent. Think > I have some of these decices, but haven't tried them yet as I haven't > any suitable high temp cut xtals in HC18U case. > > Didn't know you were a Microwaver Alan ! I always maintained 73kHz > was a microwave band, where experimentation and homebrewing rather > than just operating was the norm. 137k just seems a DX chasing band > these days. > > Andy G4JNT > ...................................................... > You mentioned the Murata heater tabs earlier.....have you any idea > what > temperature these are supposed to stabilise at?? My data book doesn't > quote > this. I have seen problems where the crystal used was not specified > for a > turnover at the 'oven' temperature, leading to worse stability than > without > using the tab. (crystals for use in ovened enclosure are usually cut > at a > slightly different angle I believe) Used correctly they should give a > order > of magnitude improvement for the guys with outside shacks! > Particularly if > the 'tab' 12v supply can be left switched on. It is not a total cure > and for > best performance crystals still need to be protected from direct > draughts > even if only by a cornflake package. > > Cheers de Alan G3NYK > Alan.Melia@btinternet.com > > -----Original Message----- > From: Talbot Andrew > To: 'rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org' > Date: 27 April, 2000 12:54 PM > Subject: LF: RE: High stability drive sources > > > > > >> Are more of these becoming available ? A lot have been bought up > by > >> microwave operators recently. > >> > > > > -- The Information contained in this E-Mail and any subsequent correspondence is private and is intended solely for the intended recipient(s). For those other than the recipient any disclosure, copying, distribution, or any action taken or omitted to be taken in reliance on such information is prohibited and may be unlawful. From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 4697 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2000 13:06:10 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Apr 2000 13:06:10 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lAMc-0003eH-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:59:22 +0100 Received: from helios.herts.ac.uk ([147.197.200.2]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lAMZ-0003eC-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:59:19 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [147.197.200.44] (helo=gemini) by helios.herts.ac.uk with esmtp (Exim 3.11 #1) id 12lAJR-0004fZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 13:56:05 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <6841.200004281304@gemini> From: "James Moritz" Organization: University of Hertfordshire To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 14:05:30 +0000 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Subject: LF: Has Anyone heard from GW3XDV/P? /Transatlantic frequencies X-Mailer: Pegasus Mail for Win32 (v3.11) Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Dear LF Group, Has anybody heard/worked GW3XDV/P yet? I was QRV on 73kHz last night, although not until about 1900, but could hear and see very little due to the fantastically high level of QRN. I could see G3LDO's beacon signal for a while, but even that was overwhelmed eventually. 136kHz was extremely noisy too. Conditions were more normal around 0800 this morning, but I had no response to a few QRSS CQ calls. I will be QRV on 71.81kHz this evening again, and also Saturday morning, in the hope of working Mike before he returns. I think G0MRF makes an important point about 'Transatlantic II' frequencies - operating with split frequencies would also help avoid the problem of RX audio/soundcards being overloaded by several very strong local stations whilst trying to listen for weak transatlantic signals. I am having a rake through my box of crystals, to see if I can find any useful frequencies - what sorts of frequency are being used for VXO/Mixer type systems? Cheers, Jim Moritz 73 de M0BMU From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 10566 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2000 15:38:59 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Apr 2000 15:38:59 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lCde-0004nW-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 16:25:06 +0100 Received: from kerberos.telecom.cz ([194.228.2.35]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lCdd-0004nQ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 16:25:05 +0100 Received: from dell1.cz.gmc.net ([194.228.225.18]) by kerberos.telecom.cz (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id RAA07050 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 17:24:45 +0200 Received: from p (p.maly.cz.gmc.net [192.168.1.35]) by dell1.cz.gmc.net with SMTP (Microsoft Exchange Internet Mail Service Version 5.5.2650.21) id JTL2K613; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 08:43:45 +0200 Message-ID: <004f01bfb0dd$19aa10a0$2301a8c0@maly.cz.gmc.net> From: "Petr Maly" To: "136 group" Subject: LF: QRV during weekend Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 08:43:45 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-2; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 5.00.2014.211 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello all I will be QRV from Saturday midday till Monday midday. A.F. filter for rx was narrowed, power a little increased and antenna enhanced. I hope to work all the expeditions HB0, GW and GI. 73, Petr, OK1FIG From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 3003 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2000 20:00:54 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Apr 2000 20:00:54 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lGhh-0006ue-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 20:45:33 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lGhd-0006uZ-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 20:45:30 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id UAA21515 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 20:45:16 +0100 X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <2000042819440168199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 19:44:01 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: LF: Re: LF operation from GI Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Hello all, I had a 72kHz contact with M0BMU at 1200UTC The GI3PDN and MI0AYZ operation from a disused Decca site came on the air at around 1300UTC. When I first heard them they were in contact with G4GVC, first 72/136kHz cross band then a two-way 72kHz contact. I then had a contact MI0AYZ/P at 1445 (they are using Ean's call for 72kHz because he has the NOV) my report 429 and he was 539 on 71.93kHz. I tried to alert M0BMU but I didn't have the phone number and he cannot be reached via BT telephone enquiries. They then tried 136kHz but there are serious problems on receive, some sort of noise that overwhealms the receiver. The plan is to go on 72kHz at around 0800UTC tomorrow and work as many stations as possible, then try and resolve the receive problems on 136kHz. The antenna is 55m high with a 200m top so receiver overload might be the proble. Some advice from the Puckerage group might be in order. (on the reflector or number below). The locator is IO64TL. Ray's home telephone number (for advice re receivers) is 02894 432995. -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 28184 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2000 21:07:26 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Apr 2000 21:07:26 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lHoj-0007Ss-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 21:56:53 +0100 Received: from cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.174]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lHoi-0007Sn-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 21:56:52 +0100 Received: from modem-21.dorwinion.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.157.149] helo=lvm) by cmailg4.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12lHoO-0000xE-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 21:56:32 +0100 Message-ID: <000401bfb154$5c1f7d40$959d883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: IK1ODO QRP Beacon Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 21:56:30 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi Marco,
Signals first seen at 1900,but not identified.Now reading callsign from 2030
good "O" sig with slow fading.Will continue to monitor.73s Laurie.
.
 
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29726 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2000 21:11:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Apr 2000 21:11:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lHuJ-0007Vn-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 22:02:39 +0100 Received: from bru5-rc-mx1.uunet.be ([194.7.179.228]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lHuH-0007Vi-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 22:02:38 +0100 Received: (qmail 15252 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2000 21:02:16 -0000 Received: from uu212-190-0-194.unknown.uunet.be (HELO DeWildeg) (212.190.0.194) by bru5-rc-mx1.uunet.be with SMTP; 28 Apr 2000 21:02:16 -0000 Message-ID: <001201bfb155$1400da80$c200bed4@DeWildeg> From: "Gaspard De Wilde" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: IK1ODO qrp beacon active Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 23:02:10 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: hello Bruno your sigs are ooo with .125hz on spectran display dificult to read with . 065hz still mmm with .250hz remarkebel with .5hz 73s de ON4ZK -----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: M. Bruno Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Datum: donderdag 27 april 2000 22:36 Onderwerp: LF: IK1ODO qrp beacon active >My QRP DFCW beacon is active again for the weekend. > >Operating conditions now: > >Frequency 137.792 / 137.793 kHz, shift about 1.03 Hz > >Frequency is controlled by the usual "stupid" XTAL in air, so >don't expect more than 0.2 Hz stability. However, I hope >to be clear of the Loran-C lines (thank you Alan for the >details about the line frequencies; I decided to stay in the >middle). > >Power is 10W to the aerial, so about 10 mW radiated >(0.55A into 32 mOhm). > >Mode is DFCW, the upper frequency is the dash, the lower >is the dot. Speed 30s dots, 10s intervals. This should >be about optimal for Spectran use at 0.032 Hz resolution. > >I hope to leave the TX running until May 2 in the morning. > >Again, any report is welcome. > > >73 - Marco IK1ODO > >spin@inrete.it > >Rivalta, ITALY JN35SA (N 45 01' 25.6", E 7 31' 09.4") > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11328 invoked from network); 28 Apr 2000 22:56:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 28 Apr 2000 22:56:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lJae-0008Kx-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 23:50:28 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from irwell.zetnet.co.uk ([194.247.47.48] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lJaY-0008Kr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 23:50:23 +0100 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Received: from central.zetnet.co.uk (central.zetnet.co.uk [194.247.47.20]) by irwell.zetnet.co.uk (8.9.3/8.9.3/Debian/GNU) with SMTP id XAA12337 for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 23:50:07 +0100 X-ZSender: g3ldo@zetnet.co.uk Message-ID: <2000042822482168199@zetnet.co.uk> Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 22:48:21 +0100 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org From: "Peter Dodd" X-Mailer: ZIMACS Version 1.20c 10000836 Subject: Re: LF: IK1ODO qrp beacon active Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-type: text/plain; charset=windows-1252; format=flowed MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit Marco > My QRP DFCW beacon is active again for the weekend. > Power is 10W to the aerial, so about 10 mW radiated > (0.55A into 32 mOhm). Excellent 'O' signals from your beacon tonight 2230UTC; very stable signal (in frequency and strength) over a period of 40mins with an increase at 2240UTC. The 'dot' is just a knats whisker above a weak Loran line so no difficulty in copy. What is the significance of the 'V' at the end (or is it the beginning) of the call?. I guess it could just be a delimiter. I will send you a picture of it direct to you . -- Regards, Peter, G3LDO From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7312 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2000 01:33:01 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Apr 2000 01:33:01 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lLyS-00014W-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 02:23:12 +0100 Received: from tomts3.bellnexxia.net ([209.226.175.141] helo=tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lLyR-00014R-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 02:23:11 +0100 Received: from server1 ([206.172.245.76]) by tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net (InterMail vM.4.01.02.17 201-229-119) with SMTP id <20000429012219.HZUC24624.tomts3-srv.bellnexxia.net@server1> for ; Fri, 28 Apr 2000 21:22:19 -0400 Message-ID: <003601bfb178$fbef0240$0a00a8c0@server1.ThreeLakes.ca> From: "Larry Kayser" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: TransAtlantic II frequencies, a bit more Date: Fri, 28 Apr 2000 21:19:33 -0400 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Greetings All: >I think G0MRF makes an important point about 'Transatlantic II' >frequencies - operating with split frequencies would also help avoid >the problem of RX audio/soundcards being overloaded by several >very strong local stations whilst trying to listen for weak >transatlantic signals. Jim makes the point and it might not be obvious but from this side the TransAtlantic II might have as much as 100 miles, or even more, between the receiver and the transmitter sites. The likely mode from this side will be to find a clear Transmit frequency and then sit on it and work it hard. My goal is to have what I have here at home in Westport, a full duplex system (as distinct from and better than full QSK), I just like listening while the transmitter is doing its thing.... In case there is an "opening" of some sort a full duplex system will also let us send multiple acknowledgements and then listen to multiple stations at the same time (if we are lucky enough to have two receiving teams going full time), thus maximizing the number of QSO's in a given period. Larry VA3LK From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23334 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2000 07:53:25 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Apr 2000 07:53:25 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lRuI-0003ki-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 08:43:18 +0100 Received: from cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.195.177]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lRuH-0003kd-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 08:43:17 +0100 Received: from modem-65.aman.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.103.65] helo=lvm) by cmailg7.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12lRu1-0001dD-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 08:43:01 +0100 Message-ID: <000201bfb1ae$aca84d00$4167883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: IK1ODO QRP Beacon Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 08:42:42 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Good Morning Marco,
Your beacon still good sig at 0800 this morning using 0.64.Tried Gram but no good,perhaps I need more experience here! 73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 20924 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2000 10:02:24 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Apr 2000 10:02:24 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lTxf-0004e9-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 10:54:55 +0100 Received: from mb07.swip.net ([193.12.122.211]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lTxb-0004e3-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 10:54:51 +0100 Received: from oemcomputer (d212-151-57-98.swipnet.se [212.151.57.98]) by mb07.swip.net (8.8.8/8.8.8) with SMTP id LAA21341 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 11:54:30 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <004101bfb1c0$f43c6860$623997d4@oemcomputer> From: "Johan Bodin" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: New coil design program by G4FGQ Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 11:54:46 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello all, G4FGQ has written a new coil design program, solnoid2.exe. It seems to predict loss with better accuracy than solenoid.exe. http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp/ http://www.btinternet.com/~g4fgq.regp/page2.html#S209 73 Johan SM6LKM From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 11090 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2000 10:33:43 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Apr 2000 10:33:43 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lUUI-0004vw-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 11:28:38 +0100 Received: from hugo.fen.baynet.de ([194.95.193.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lUUF-0004vr-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 11:28:35 +0100 Received: from 194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de (dialin-nbg-163.fen.baynet.de [195.37.215.43]) by hugo.fen.baynet.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA29990 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 12:28:03 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <000301bfb1c5$bd85cf00$2bd725c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de> From: "Walter Staubach" To: "Reflektor" Subject: LF: HB0/DL1SAN QRV Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 12:28:17 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hallo to All, Wolf is in JN47SC, wkd him 942 utc with 559. A new country. 73 Walter DJ2LF JN59NO --------------------------------------------- Walter.Staubach@fen-net.de From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24613 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2000 10:44:16 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by bells.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Apr 2000 10:44:16 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lUeo-000515-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 11:39:30 +0100 Received: from hugo.fen.baynet.de ([194.95.193.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lUen-000510-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 11:39:29 +0100 Received: from 194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de (dialin-nbg-217.fen.baynet.de [195.37.215.97]) by hugo.fen.baynet.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA00851 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 12:38:44 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <000301bfb1c7$3b939840$61d725c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de> From: "Walter Staubach" To: "Reflektor" Subject: LF: Marco`s beacon Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 12:38:51 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Good morning, Marco, your beacon is rather good here in JN59NO. Without QRN good for QSO. Sometimes little fading. Nothing against your Xtal. 73 Walter DJ2LF --------------------------------------------- Walter.Staubach@fen-net.de From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 19851 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2000 10:52:09 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Apr 2000 10:52:09 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lUkq-00053C-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 11:45:44 +0100 Received: from hugo.fen.baynet.de ([194.95.193.10] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lUkq-000536-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 11:45:44 +0100 Received: from 194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de (dialin-nbg-231.fen.baynet.de [195.37.215.111]) by hugo.fen.baynet.de (8.9.1/8.9.1) with SMTP id MAA01412 for ; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 12:45:12 +0200 (MET DST) Message-ID: <000301bfb1c8$22ce8a80$6fd725c3@194.95.193.10.fen.baynet.de> From: "Walter Staubach" To: "Reflektor" Subject: LF: Marco`s beacon Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 12:45:21 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: In addition to my mail before: I receive the beacon with gram 426. 73 Walter DJ2LF --------------------------------------------- Walter.Staubach@fen-net.de From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 7070 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2000 16:50:33 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Apr 2000 16:50:33 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12laHf-0007c4-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 17:39:59 +0100 Received: from mail1.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.18]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12laHd-0007bx-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 17:39:57 +0100 Received: from modem-47.ainur.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.100.47] helo=lvm) by mail1.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12laGA-00082r-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 17:38:27 +0100 Message-ID: <000201bfb1f9$79298340$2f64883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: IK1ODO Beacon. Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 17:35:16 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hello again Marco,
Your beacon signal faded out here at 0930 am. No trace all day, but re-appeared at 1700 very weak. Just about readable now at 1730.Intresting experiment,73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 8442 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2000 21:49:18 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Apr 2000 21:49:18 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lf1b-0001JL-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 22:43:43 +0100 Received: from bru5-rc-mx1.uunet.be ([194.7.179.228]) by post.thorcom.com with smtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lf1a-0001JG-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 22:43:42 +0100 Received: (qmail 26301 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2000 21:43:24 -0000 Received: from uu212-190-0-251.unknown.uunet.be (HELO DeWildeg) (212.190.0.251) by bru5-rc-mx1.uunet.be with SMTP; 29 Apr 2000 21:43:24 -0000 Message-ID: <000e01bfb224$02b5d120$fb00bed4@DeWildeg> From: "Gaspard De Wilde" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: IK1ODO qrp beacon active Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 23:43:50 +0200 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/plain; charset=iso-8859-1; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: hello marco rpt saterday evening 18.45 TTT 19.15 MMM 19.30 OOO 20.00 OOO all spectran 0.065 hz ____________________________ 20.02 MMM 20.15 OOO 20.30 OOO+ spectran 0.125hz ____________________________ 21.00 OOO+ spectran 0.250hz ____________________________ 21.05 OOO spectran 0.5 hz 21.08 MMM Gram246 .3 hz ____________________________ 21.10 MMM spectran 1 hz !!!!! _____________________________ 21.15 T T T spectran 2hz- good night es 73 de on4zk ----Oorspronkelijk bericht----- Van: M. Bruno Aan: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Datum: donderdag 27 april 2000 22:36 Onderwerp: LF: IK1ODO qrp beacon active >My QRP DFCW beacon is active again for the weekend. > >Operating conditions now: > >Frequency 137.792 / 137.793 kHz, shift about 1.03 Hz > >Frequency is controlled by the usual "stupid" XTAL in air, so >don't expect more than 0.2 Hz stability. However, I hope >to be clear of the Loran-C lines (thank you Alan for the >details about the line frequencies; I decided to stay in the >middle). > >Power is 10W to the aerial, so about 10 mW radiated >(0.55A into 32 mOhm). > >Mode is DFCW, the upper frequency is the dash, the lower >is the dot. Speed 30s dots, 10s intervals. This should >be about optimal for Spectran use at 0.032 Hz resolution. > >I hope to leave the TX running until May 2 in the morning. > >Again, any report is welcome. > > >73 - Marco IK1ODO > >spin@inrete.it > >Rivalta, ITALY JN35SA (N 45 01' 25.6", E 7 31' 09.4") > > > > From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 24587 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2000 22:28:00 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Apr 2000 22:28:00 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lfd6-0001co-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 23:22:28 +0100 Received: from mail6.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.212]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lfd5-0001cj-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 23:22:27 +0100 Received: from modem-109.harlequin-basslet.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.137.25.109] helo=lvm) by mail6.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12lfcn-00035j-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 23:22:11 +0100 Message-ID: <000201bfb229$7da609e0$6d19893e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: IK1ODO Beacon. Date: Sat, 29 Apr 2000 23:20:54 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
After a short appearance1700 1800 very weak the signal dissapeared until 2030
when it slowly increased in strength becoming a good"O" by 2100 and "OO" by 2200 with some QSB.However by 2300 it was very strong. 73s Laurie.
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 25798 invoked from network); 29 Apr 2000 23:00:56 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 29 Apr 2000 23:00:56 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lg8k-0001qd-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 23:55:10 +0100 Received: from d06lmsgate-3.uk.ibm.com ([195.212.29.3] helo=lmsfw2.emea.ibm.com) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lg8j-0001qW-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 23:55:09 +0100 Received: from d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com [9.166.84.148]) by lmsfw2.emea.ibm.com (1.0.0) with ESMTP id XAA118848; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 23:46:06 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from usa.net (lig32-239-128-75.emea.lig-dial.ibm.com [32.239.128.75]) by d06relay02.portsmouth.uk.ibm.com (8.8.8m3/NCO v2.07) with ESMTP id XAA46930; Sat, 29 Apr 2000 23:53:41 +0100 Message-ID: <390B67E7.838E985E@usa.net> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 00:53:27 +0200 From: "Alberto di Bene" Organization: Undisclosed X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win95; U) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org, dsp_weak_signal@qth.net Subject: LF: Spectran beta 3 References: <2000042822482168199@zetnet.co.uk> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Hello all, the beta 3 of Spectran is proceeding, albeit much slower of what our desire would be (read : lack of time...) Anyway today I tested it against the beacon of Marco Bruno, IK1ODO, 10 mW ERP at 137.791 kHz. My antenna was a random length of wire, between 15 and 18 meters (not sure), tuned with a parallel LC. RX was a TS850 Copy was excellent, but also the QRB is modest (abt 200 km). You can see a snapshot of the beta 3 screen with IK1ODO signal here : http://members.xoom.com/spectran/ik1odo.jpg The continous line slightly over 400 Hz is just a spurious signal generated by the screen of my PC. Switching it off makes the line disappear. The Spectran settings were : sampling rate 5500 samples/sec, resolution 0.042 Hz, no averaging, between 1 and 0.5 frames/sec, contrast 200, level abt 0.2 of full scale (perhaps a tad too high, judging by the image). 73s Alberto I2PHD From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 23338 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2000 10:17:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Apr 2000 10:17:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lqbN-0006oT-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 11:05:25 +0100 Received: from post.interalpha.co.uk ([195.26.224.18] helo=post.interalpha.net) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lqbM-0006oO-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 11:05:24 +0100 Received: from g4jnt (sot-mod25.interalpha.net [195.26.225.25]) by post.interalpha.net (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id LAA19850 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 11:13:30 +0100 Message-ID: <002201bfb28b$a72ff700$19e11ac3@g4jnt> From: "Andy Talbot" To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Re: IK1ODO Beacon. Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 11:05:45 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.1 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
The IK1ODO beacon was much stronger last night (Saturday)  when it appeared at around 2000z than it was the day before at the same time.   Averaging at least 20dB above noise in 0.03 Hz bandwidth unitl I switched off at 2300z.   Then it appeared to be peaking more than 25db above noise.  Looks like 5 - 10dB improvement on other monitoring sessions.
 
Software DOPWIN (Dopplergrams for Windows by G3PLX)  with the 56002 EVM. 
No need for Ultra narrow bandwidths now the signal has increased.  What have you done to it ?
 
Andy  G4JNT
From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 22771 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2000 17:38:49 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Apr 2000 17:38:49 -0000 Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lxVs-0001SA-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 18:28:12 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from oso.slonet.org ([207.114.180.2] ident=cbuttsch) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12lxVo-0001S5-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 18:28:08 +0100 Received: from localhost by oso.slonet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with SMTP id KAA12665; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 10:27:37 -0700 (PDT) X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 10:27:33 -0700 (PDT) From: "Clifford Buttschardt" To: "Andre' Kesteloot" , "Frank Gentges" , rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Cc: "John Davis" Subject: Re: LF: 137 KHz Dixon, CA off! In-reply-to: <002201bfb28b$a72ff700$19e11ac3@g4jnt> Message-ID: MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: TEXT/PLAIN; charset=US-ASCII; format=flowed Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Bill Lake, WB6RIJ and I have checked the Naval station near Sacramento, CA and found it to be off the air for the present moment. We both thought there must be some opportunity for listening tests from the West coast not available normally. What experimental signals are on the air from the East coast now? We must move fast as Dixon can resume operation at any moment of course! Cliff K7RR From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 13397 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2000 21:23:28 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by teachers.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Apr 2000 21:23:28 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12m0yv-00031V-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 22:10:25 +0100 Received: from mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz ([203.96.92.13]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12m0yr-000312-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 22:10:22 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from [202.27.181.129] by mta3-rme.xtra.co.nz (InterMail v4.01.01.00 201-229-111) with SMTP id <20000430210927.JGN10052104.mta3-rme@[202.27.181.129]> for ; Mon, 1 May 2000 09:09:27 +1200 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Message-ID: <390C9FEB.699@xtra.co.nz> Date: Mon, 01 May 2000 09:04:43 +1200 From: "vernall" X-Mailer: Mozilla 3.01C-XTRA (Win95; I) MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: LF: Crossing the Pacific References: Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Cliff K7RR, A US west coast site with a good mast would be ideal for listening out for ZL amateur signals. I'm sure we can activate ZL1WB and ZL6QH to see if we can cross the Pacific from down under. Could you get permission to transmit on LF, or even do some testing on behalf of the Navy ;) 73, Bob ZL2CA > Bill Lake, WB6RIJ and I have checked the Naval station near Sacramento, CA > and found it to be off the air for the present moment. We both thought > there must be some opportunity for listening tests from the West coast not > available normally. What experimental signals are on the air from the > East coast now? We must move fast as Dixon can resume operation at any > moment of course! Cliff K7RR From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 29454 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2000 21:48:57 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by redlabel.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Apr 2000 21:48:57 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12m1Td-0003Ju-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 22:42:09 +0100 Received: from oso.slonet.org ([207.114.180.2] ident=root) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12m1Tc-0003Jp-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 22:42:08 +0100 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal Received: from slonet.org (cas1-177.snlo.dialup.slonet.org [207.114.217.177]) by oso.slonet.org (8.9.3/8.9.3) with ESMTP id OAA01467 for ; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 14:41:48 -0700 (PDT) Message-ID: <390C9B50.6BD8E42@slonet.org> X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 21:45:04 +0000 From: "Cliff Buttschardt" X-Mailer: Mozilla 4.72 [en] (Win98; I) X-Accept-Language: en MIME-Version: 1.0 To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Subject: Re: LF: Crossing the Pacific References: <390C9FEB.699@xtra.co.nz> Content-Type: text/plain; charset=us-ascii; format=flowed Content-Transfer-Encoding: 8bit Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Bob. I am sure that we could not get transmitting privileges on short notice, but we can listen while the West coast transmitter is down. Cliff K7RR vernall wrote: > > Cliff K7RR, > > A US west coast site with a good mast would be ideal for listening out > for ZL amateur signals. I'm sure we can activate ZL1WB and ZL6QH to see > if we can cross the Pacific from down under. > > Could you get permission to transmit on LF, or even do some testing on > behalf of the Navy ;) > > 73, Bob ZL2CA > > > Bill Lake, WB6RIJ and I have checked the Naval station near Sacramento, CA > > and found it to be off the air for the present moment. We both thought > > there must be some opportunity for listening tests from the West coast not > > available normally. What experimental signals are on the air from the > > East coast now? We must move fast as Dixon can resume operation at any > > moment of course! Cliff K7RR From rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org Sun Jan 01 00:00:00 1970 Return-Path: Received: (qmail 14457 invoked from network); 30 Apr 2000 21:50:14 -0000 Received: from unknown (HELO post.thorcom.com) (212.172.148.70) by grants.core.plus.net.uk with SMTP; 30 Apr 2000 21:50:14 -0000 Received: from majordom by post.thorcom.com with local (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12m1VB-0003K5-00 for rsgb_lf_group-outgoing@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 22:43:45 +0100 Received: from mail2.svr.pol.co.uk ([195.92.193.210]) by post.thorcom.com with esmtp (Exim 3.02 #1) id 12m1V9-0003Jz-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 22:43:44 +0100 Received: from modem-126.aerin.dialup.pol.co.uk ([62.136.98.254] helo=lvm) by mail2.svr.pol.co.uk with smtp (Exim 3.13 #0) id 12m1Ut-0005kU-00 for rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org; Sun, 30 Apr 2000 22:43:27 +0100 Message-ID: <000801bfb2ed$3fdcee20$fe62883e@lvm> From: "LAWRENCE MAYHEAD" To: "rsgb lf group" Subject: LF: Re.IK10D0 Beacon. Date: Sun, 30 Apr 2000 22:43:29 +0100 MIME-Version: 1.0 Content-Type: text/html; charset=windows-1252 X-Priority: 3 X-MSMail-Priority: Normal X-Mailer: Microsoft Outlook Express 4.72.3110.5 X-MimeOLE: Produced By Microsoft MimeOLE V6.00.2800.1106 Precedence: bulk Reply-To: rsgb_lf_group@blacksheep.org X-Listname: rsgb_lf_group Sender: Content-transfer-encoding: 8bit
Hi Alan,
Thanks for your mail,yes I did mean .064Hz, slip of the finger Hi.But I could also get a better looking signal with .125Hz and even at 0.25 but only "M".
This morning (Sunday) he was very weak at first 0715,but came up by 0800,I had to switch off then so dont know how it went,but no doubt followed the pattern of saturday.
Re Loops,mine is very low about 20ft at the ends but falling to 10-15ft in the middle due to the trees.But it is 450ft long.However I do have a shorter one and I think 60m will be fine.I ground the far end and the return is via ground,at the rec. end the coax is also grounded.Points NW/SE so good for IK,nice null on Lessay,Hi.Very intresting experiment.73s Laurie.